American Women

Hey, this one just to say go RN about curbing fags!

Also let me throw here a link to help those willing to leave the US
[url]http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/argentine_option.htm[/url]

It is pointing the Argentina option above because it is now without a doubt one of the best places in the world to escape (guys, if you don't read already the Buenos Aires section, begin now), but pretty much all the countries are covered.

respect to all

sinanjumaster...you're wrong! I lasted the whole dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!! (Although I'm shaking like a leaf and I'm pretty sure my head is about to implode LOL). I'm using patches so I'm cheating a bit...but it seems to be working so far.

Thanks for the encouragement you guys. :)

Hey Paddy,

If your friend already has money saved up, he can live with his children comfortably for the rest of their lives in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. The currency exchange is excellent because 3 reais equals 1 US dollar. If he has a house and sells it and also transfers his assets to a brazilian account, he probably doesn't have to work or could own a moderately profitable business in Rio. Rio has the benefits of a big city and a tropical beach. College in Rio is FREE, unlike American colleges. You just have to make a B+ grade point average (or else you go to a catholic university which costs $1500 a semester). Brazil also has a very lenient immigration policy.
As for the divorce laws in Brazil, you might lose half of your assets you earned AT THE TIME YOU WERE MARRIED. That means if you earned $10,000 during the marriage but owned a house before that, she ONLY gets $5,000 and nothing more. It would therefore be best to buy ythe house before getting married. If you end up stuck again, move to another country and liquidate the assets. Moving to another country gives you a clean slate and federal officials won't be able to track you.
I read your friend would like to go to New Zealand. I heard it is also nice. I hope your friend could get in there because moving out of the US would be best. He also has to keep a low profile while you leave so that's why it's best to liquidate and don't use the credit card for flights or housing arrangements. Divorced husbands in the US have the same rights as criminals (which is very unfortunate) so you have to keep low like one until you get settled in your new home.

I would say that your friend should avoid buying a house (at least in his own name). It is safer to rent and pay cash. The most important thing is to get some kind of alternative ID that will allow you to get do things.

In any Western European city the Albanian mafia will sell you an Italian ID card for around 200 dollars. Use a non-Italian name though, and say that you just have citizenship, or you will get busted when people find out you don't speak Italian. You really need some kind of a passport though, as you need your new country to stamp your residence permit in an actual passport.

Also, the cash business. It depends what he does, but he should probably spread any investments around about a bit to avoid getting burnt or ripped off.

If he is American then he can probably make a living (payment in cash) by teaching English to advanced students (where you don't need to speak the other language) in almost any country in the world; so he has that an insurance option if things mess up. (same thing applies in a lot of countries for French, Germans, Italians, Spanish speakers, etc although English language is easiest to find customers for). If he also pays his rent in cash then there is no official trace of him anywhere. If he goes for that option then he also doesn't absolutely need residence or a work permit in the country, although that is going to be the legal requirement in most places.

Getting money back to the kids. Western Union (ie where you walk into a WU store and hand over cash, and they hand it over the same amount minus fees at another store, to another person you name on the other side of the world) is a good way of sending money. I'm not sure if the recipient would find out which country the money had been sent from. If so, and he thinks the kids might let it slip, then he needs a third person (like you Paddy), to pick up the money from WU and hand it over to the kids in person.

OK, I rather feel the need to weigh in here with at least one discouraging word, since this whole concept has gotten pretty universal sympathy and support. While I do have a great deal of sympathy for this guy, who is clearly (or at least is presented as) a prime example of a relationship gone bad and the dark side of divorcelaws, there's also a point at which this becomes a little silly -- give up a professional career, a house, your children, go work under an assumed name perhaps in a third world country, getting a low-paying job teaching English, living like a criminal, and so forth, all to avoid unjust divorce laws. You can even deal with the mafia for fake ID cards, great. Surely the law of diminishing returns has to kick in here somewhere along the line.

Doesn't this approach basically say, ok, I now wish to wear sackcloth and ashes and brand myself as a victim for all time? What about actually getting on with your life? The one-third of his income that he'd have to give up would still leave him with a far greater income and style of living than he's likely to end up with overseas. And there still [i]are[/i] no doubt legal recourses he's not exhausted -- alimony isn't always all that cut and dried, and it's also subject to change based on future circumstance.

Again, I've great sympathy for this guy, but somewhere along the line there also needs to be a reality check so you're not [i]truly[/i] thinking that it's your only option -- there certainly are other folks who have survived going down this route -- so you are able to make cogent choices. The bottom line is that the breakup of a long marriage is always going to be hugely traumatic no matter what the circumstance, and he should think about how much that is also factoring into the equation.

Hi Joe, Mano, Darkseid & RN,

Thanks for all the input and excellent ideas. My friend is surprisingly working on many of the ideas you people thought of independently.

Yes, Joe, trashing his career, job, home, leaving his country and his whole way of life is almost unthinkable. What really galls him, however, is that his to be ex. is going to get 33% if his monthly wages before taxes while she's living with lover boy. She'll never marry the guy because under state law she would lose the money. His ex. and her boyfriend will just sit back and collect his hard earned money month after month after month this way. Sweet deal for the two of them. It's like a 3rd income for the two of them. By the way, she told my friend that she'll take him for everything he's got. She declared that she'll "ruin' him if it's the last thing she ever does.

I guess that he needs to get away and start over. On the net he came across a group of divorced American guys who have settled somewhere in the Netherlands. They seem to like it there and the Dutch women are very accomodating and liberated compared to Americans.

Thanks again.

Paddy

Hey Paddy,

Divorce is always an offspring of hate- hatred between a married couple in a marriage gone sour. It ALWAYS leads to revenge and usually the woman gets the last laughs. Obviously this woman is really out to get your friend Paddy and she will sue for more if given even a slightest opportunity. It starts off at 33% of his wages but she'll want more and she'll try to even sue for 66% like what happened to my unfortunate co-worker who gets his wages garnished for alimony, child support (the only thing he should be responsible for) and mortgage payments to the house that now belongs to his ex-wife. NOT including the child support, he garnishes 50% of his paycheck for the mortgage and alimony. With the child support, it's 70% which leaves him 30% for himself BEFORE taxes then he gets taxed a third of that so he's left with 20% to spend on himself and on top of that his retirement contributions were compromised as well. He makes $65,000 a year before taxes and he is only entitled to $13,000 of that after taxes, alimony, child support, and his wife's house is paid off. The only merciful thing his wife left him was visitation rights to the kids on weekends and that was after months of grovelling. $13,000 a year is not a well off income and is as much as what a cashier in Starbucks makes. He was forced to live with his parents and sell his car because he couldn't afford gas and car insurance. He basically lives like a pauper. The New York State divorce laws really sucks and are probably written by nazi-feminists because he is taken to the cleaners. If he fled to a Third world country with all his saved income, he would have lived a better life. He could have liquidated his house and assets and bought a house and owned a business in Brazil or Dominican Republic and work as a cop and still make more than $13,000US per year. A cop in DR makes $15,000US per year or in Brazil they make $21,000. Still much better than $13,000. So Paddy, get your friend to leave this place and declare bankruptcy here besides sex is practically illegal here anyway and we all travel to foreign countries to get it. If it is legal here, we wouldn't be going thousands of miles for it. Yes America is the best country to make money but it is only UNTIL YOU GET DIVORCED. The reason I didn't move is that I am not divorced and I get to enjoy all of my paycheck after taxes ($65K wages - $18K taxes = $47K spending money). If I were to get into that hairy situation, I'd leave this country also no matter how good it is but this country will treat you bad if you are a divorced man. Best of luck to your friend, Paddy, and I hope he gets away free from this horrible mess.

Darkseid

Perhaps your friend should hire a detective to follow the ex for a week and report on her doings. If he can discredit her claims of poverty (she's living with another man, both having jobs, etc...) then he's a step ahead. If he presents an offer to the judge to open a trust fund in the daughters name at the same time, the judge might see him as a reasonable man and cancel the alimony.

This detective may also be able to prove that the ex was dating the guy while your friend was still living with her. If that's the case the judge will cite her for abandonment and adultry. Sure grounds for refusal of alimony.

That may or may not work. Sometimes it doesn't because she will use Paddy's friend's money to hire a much better lawyer and remember, the laws ALWAYS favors the wife even if she was cheating. That's unfortunate in America but that's the way it is. There is always cases in which this fails and it's always becuase the judge favors the ex-wife and because she has a better lawyer. The lawyer can say that she gave up 10 years of her life taking care of the household instead of finding a career and the judge will definitely reward her for "lost income" for being a housewife whether she cheats or not. She could argue that she could have went to college for 4 years and worked a career for the other six but instead she had to stay home and tend the kids and take care of the house. She would argue that she deserves compensation for that service and that since she maintained and kept the house she deserves to keep it. The judge will forget about the fact that the husband paid for the house in the first place. However, if Paddy's friend has the better lawyer and the judge happens to be a male divorcee himself, the odds could go in HIS favor for refusal of alimony.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joe_zop
[i]OK, I rather feel the need to weigh in here with at least one discouraging word, since this whole concept has gotten pretty universal sympathy and support. While I do have a great deal of sympathy for this guy, who is clearly (or at least is presented as) a prime example of a relationship gone bad and the dark side of divorcelaws, there's also a point at which this becomes a little silly -- give up a professional career, a house, your children, go work under an assumed name perhaps in a third world country, getting a low-paying job teaching English, living like a criminal, and so forth, all to avoid unjust divorce laws. You can even deal with the mafia for fake ID cards, great. Surely the law of diminishing returns has to kick in here somewhere along the line.

Doesn't this approach basically say, ok, I now wish to wear sackcloth and ashes and brand myself as a victim for all time? What about actually getting on with your life? The one-third of his income that he'd have to give up would still leave him with a far greater income and style of living than he's likely to end up with overseas. And there still [i]are[/i] no doubt legal recourses he's not exhausted -- alimony isn't always all that cut and dried, and it's also subject to change based on future circumstance.

[/i][/QUOTE]

What you say is bascially true. It depends a lot on his life in the USA and what he feels about that generally. From what I can pick up from Paddy's posts he seems willing to give it up, and he has the resources not to need to teach (which by the way is quite well paid even in poorer countries if you consider the lower costs of living, and his ability as an American to land a job in the most expensive private schools for businessmen).

As for the thing about the sackcloth and ashes bit, well if he has the right attitude in his new country and doesn't think "I'm here because I am a victim", then he will probably have a ball. Most people who actually *choose* to become ex-pats do anyway. If he is sitting in the sun at a bar made of wood, and drinking beers costing 20 cents, then there isn't much "economic activity" going on that is going to show up in that countries GDP figures but his quality of life is fine, better than commuting and working 9-5 for some asshole boss in America. If he is the kind who needs a mercedes and a rolex then he has to stay in the west and keep working even harder but it sounds like he is willing to give up all that shit. Quality of life in is fine for people who live in poor countries but have enough money to keep from drowing - sure, feel sorry for the poor souls who live in the favelas and don't have enough to eat, but Paddy's friend won't be among them whatever happens.

Yeah, I agree that the mafia is a last resort - I just thought I should float the possibility. ;)

Hi Darkseid, Fedup, Joe and Mano.,

Many, many good points made but you wise gentlemen.

Yes, the ex-patriate move is a huge one and has to be executed correctly is it's to be done at all. Also, in my friend's case, it's irrevocable since he'll be out of compliance with the divorce decree when she doesn't have 33% of his salary coming. Darkseid, you made an excellent point in that she'll come after more that her 33% as time goes on. In fact, she's already threatening to go back to school which he'll have to pay for. In my state, one has to pay for her education until it's equivalent to his. He's an MBA so she can milk that one forever. By the way, she never contributed a dime to his tuition. He had his BS before he met her and his company paid his MBA tuition. It's an irrelevant point under the law according to his lawyer. She's also playing a few other angles already. She views him as a walking ATM machine I think. Typical stuff around here.

I hope that he can make it to some tropical paradise where he can hang out on the beach, drink beer and be appreciated by some senorita for the guy he.

If you take a step back and look at the plight of American men in terms of the women here and the fearsome divorce laws, well, we're really in an awful situation or state of affairs. You know, some guy could make a lot of money if he started a business assisting American men in becoming ex-patriates. You know, a package deal which would take care of visas, housing, banking and all of the other details which would be entailed in "escaping" America. Any entrepreneurs out there??? What do you think???

Paddy

Hey Paddy,

I like the idea. perhaps we can get others to plan this business to provide an escape for those divorced men. We also have to help them liquidate their assets, help them find a place to live and perhaps have a department to help them find employment in their new home. This would take some investments so we need to form a group and pool some money together and get some entreprenuers who ran successful businesses together who are divorcees themselves. My uncle is a victim of these horrible divorce laws also and he is poor and couldn't afford to buy me gifts. He also makes $60,000 a year as a transit authority engineer and gets his salary garnished by his ex. Not everyone likes to stay in Aerica for one reason or another and it is mainly because of the greedy American women who either are greedy in the first place and just married to clean out a poor guy she played or used to love the husband but grew weary of him and decided to split up and also take a severance pay. This situation is a great reason to leave this country. Once you are a divorced man, you lose the freedom that America promises. It should be rephrased land of the free for ALL Women and ONLY Single Guys!!

Hi Darkseid,

Man, there are sooo many guys like your uncle in the US of A. I'd bet that your uncle's ex. wife was a lousy lay on top of it!

I'd like to get together to formulate ideas but it will take money and I'm living on the edge right now. Just paid my daughter's tuition for the spring semester which was $9,800. This does not include her books, rent, food, car lease, etc., etc. So, realistically I can't throw in at this time but I do believe that there is a market there. You know, a type of "pipeline" to extricate guys from these types of situations.

One of the obstacles here is potentially a legal one. How can a company or service legally and publicly promote such a thing? Women and their state legislators (who heavily rely on the female vote) would be raising hell. They would immediately assert that such an entity or service is aiding and abetting guys in skipping out on their "responsibilities" and court decrees. The news media would also have a field day with such a concept. 50% of the people here are women and they would unanimously attack such a service or agency with a vengeance. So, it would have to be "underground" or disguised as a "travel" service or something.

Maybe a guy could do research and publish a book or guide for this purpose? Perhaps some of the national mens groups dealing with divorce would be agood starting place? Just random thoughts on my part.

Paddy

Guys...why bother setting up companies or writing books, when you could just try and change the bloody law???

Child support is a must. Alimony MAY be deserved in some cases. But paying 33% of your wage to a woman who's already living with someone else??? For God's sake...*I* am a woman and *I* think that's ridiculous! If you lobbied against this sort of thing, you would probably find more supporters than you think. Take it to court and make it a test case...write letters to the newspapers...make a website...get petitions signed. C'mon, would you rather leave your country and your children, just to escape alimony payments???

A few months ago, a couple of guys in this very forum told me I should leave WA and move to a more liberal state, rather than stay here and fight my state's prostitution laws. And force every other working girl after me to have to make the same decision? Should every Perth hooker have to leave this state in order to make a living? No...I'm going to stay and fight. While you guys are sitting here complaining about the divorce laws, thousands of other men are going through it as you speak. And there will be still more tomorrow. Unless you stand up and do something about it.

You'll have to excuse this little outburst (blame the nicotine withdrawals!!), but for crying out loud...in the eyes of the Government, apathy is seen as complicity. If you continue to lay on the ground like a doormat, they will continue to wipe their feet on you.

RN, your words are easier said than done. In this country, ANY mention of something that suggests TRUE equality (or shall I say "equitability"?) between the sexes is interpreted by the frothing-at-the-mouth far-left-leaning Feminazis as an attempt to oppress women. The elected representatives of this country pander to those who can secure the most votes and American women can mobilize BETTER than the stormtroopers of the Galactic Empire. Such an attempt to change such biased laws will be met with such ferocity from women's groups and the spineless male elected represetatives that are their puppets, that it would die a swift, terrible death. Their (women's weapons) are a loud mouth (backed by faulty logic at best) anda never ending attempt to make others feel shame if an opinion other than theirs emerges. Finding a woman of your kind (one with common sense, a sense of humor and a desire for fairness) on these boards is like seeing a penguin in the desert. A WELCOME penguin. As my bretheren have suggested, the undertakings they have suggested HAVE to be done in secret. This country has been hijacked by the aforementioned group, and sadly, there is NO looking back.