American Women

seems like the posters from the morality section have moved to this one, with the exception of rn; i wonder what's happened to her? i think the discussion of the past couple days is more relevant to the morality section than this one. i also agree that male communication is good and this whole forum is to be commended for that.

i agree completely or nearly so with dh regarding the effect of good sex and good drugs such as marijuana which isn't physically addictive on happiness, and without happiness what's the point of living? i'm more fortunate than dh in that my therapeutic pot habit requires such moderate consumption that even with ridiculous black market prices it poses no significant financial burden. i'm less fortunate with consensual sex, so thank god or whatever that at least there's an abundance of pornography available in america to facilitate arousal for masturbation. re. the suicide discussion, i"d like to add another wrinkle. there should be separate categories for physically healthy and physically disabled or ill. suicide among healthy people is indicative of sick, repressive culture mostly. with modern medicine prolonging life of dubious quality for some people combined with increasing pressure on natural resources from increasing human populations, suicide rates for physically compromised individuals are bound to increase into the future. derek humphrey, a leader for years in the fight for socially accepted euthanasia, wrote a great book just a few years ago on this subject.

In terms of the suicide discussion, I think one cause of suicide among men tend to be that they bottle up their feelings much more than women instead of discussing it in length. Women tend to express their feelings to each other and notice that when guys talk over the phone, the conversation is very brief while women talk for hours even if it is the same topic. Also men are discouraged from showing their feelings because society will deem them homosexual. Men are taught to act a specific way that is "manly" while women can act any way they please. Lesbianism is much more accepted in American society so it is okay for women to even act manly. It is this societal pressure that men do not communicate their depression and thus they commit suicide because they have no support or no one to turn to for help. I had an acquantance that jumped on the third rail of a subway that I didn't know much about. He was very unopen about what's going on in his life and acted as though everything is cool. Then one day, I heard he electrocuted himself on the subway tracks and I didn't find out about his problems with debt until after his death. He killed himself over debt! If he had gone for help, he would have been helped on solving this issue. Instead, society teaches men that we have to face our problems on our own to be "men" and that is why we don't ask for directions when we're lost. The suicides that are prevented with women are partly because they are being helped with their problems. They talk to friends and other sympathetic ears and get the help they need to seek answers on the altenatives to suicide. Sometimes society can be an ass and turn deaf ears on men when men ask for help. They are more likely to favor and help the women more readily than they would help the man. Society tells men to "just deal with their problems" so the depressed men carry out their suicide.
Lack of sex can also be a cause of suicide. This forum is a great outlet to solve this problem. Not only can I get the latest info on where to get laid if I can't get any in America, but I can vent my frustration of American women on this thread. I also like to post info on my trips to not only give back to this forum but to brag about my conquests overseas with the non-pro women. Without forums like these, we would bottle up our frustation and suicide would be greater. Also notice that NONE of the people here on this forum commited suicide even the most miserable ones (I won't mention any names).

I have tried to restrain myself from entering this pissing contest . . . as many other former-posters have. But I can't help adding a few thoughts.

One important point is that many of you are comparing American women to foreign hookers. You have trouble finding a date here but can get laid in Mexico or Eastern Europe for $50. Ok, so what? Dating and paying for it are two different things. You are comparing apples and oranges. Women are cheaper in 3rd world countries as is everything else. Money and status are important in ALL countries. What you are discovering is that your status in Prague or Argentina or Mexico is relatively higher than in the US. Just as a beer is cheaper in Mexico so are service providers. $50 to the typical Mexican guy is a days work, or more. That equates to $200-$300 here. And with the added "tax"of illegality, you are probably talking $400-$500. These escorts DO exist here. They are beautiful and can provide the sweet GFE. But are for a select group of men - the upper 10% who can afford them. They don't walk the street and many don't even advertise. If you are looking for bang for the buck, be it restaurants, houses or women you won't find it in the US or England or any industrialized nation. But the quality does exist, just at a much higher price point.

The wants and needs of women are virtually the same everywhere. Men are attracted to youth and beauty. Women seek status, wealth and stability. It is genetic. Nothing will change it. Get used to it. My status in Mexico is 10 times what it is in the US. I have money, education and citizenship, all major draws. Most of the differences I see dating foreign women revolve around these assets. And it is no different in the US. Only that my relative status is lower here.

But please don't confuse a wife/girlfriend relationship with a pro. They are very different things. You don't need to choose one or the other. Most happy guys I know have both. A wife and kids, and the occasional fling on the side or the company of pros during a business trip. But thinking that life in Mexico or Panama is the way to go just because booze and broads are cheaper is an illusion. Being in your 40's or 50's and still chasing 18 yo strippers or SW's gets old VERY quickly. And trying to earn a decent living in Mexico or S America is tough. Much better to earn it here and spend it there.

The most disturbing aspect of this thread is the idea that instead of increasing your status here - through education, manners, a career, money or inter-personal skills - we should DECREASE the status of American women. If only they weren't so educated and made so much money your life would somehow be better. If only they didn't have food, legal rights or wear shoes it would allow more desperate women to sell you their asses at a cheap price. Or that we are somehow "spoiling" our women by treating them as equals, both in relationships and under the law. Please . . .

Peace, -P

Great discussion guys!

I feel like I’m back in Russia.
If everybody in regular life talk to each other like you guys, life in North America would be much easier.

I just I do not understand why is hell they didn’t give me Senior Member yet.

I’ve already made 10 posts

>Posted by Prokofieve
>
>The most disturbing aspect of this thread is the idea that >instead of
>increasing your status here - through education, manners, a >career,
>inter-personal skills - we should DECREASE
>the status of American women.

Sorry, I am think differently.
I am afraid the above idea is most disturbing idea. If instead of restoring natural balance we are going to follow this advice and increasing our status through education, manners, a career, inter-personal skills, we will just increase our competition among our self. Then the men started compete for pussy more and become even more isolated.
It is like competing for the job during low market. Number of jobs (pussies) still will be limited. Women will just become even more snobby and rise their
acceptance of men to the absurd level. I believe, our goal should be improving situation on the market and have more pussy available for everybody like in all others countries.

Do not forget, American man already most perfect man in the world.

Nobody sacrifices himself like American Man. Not many men in the world work as hard as American man to please his greedy American women. Nobody reject his own friends, reject own interests and do other stupid things when he become married
And result - American Men are treated worst in the world by women
Nobody In Europe, nobody in Asia, nobody in Latin America or in Africa treated so badly like American man

It is simply not fare. We are not the slaves!

We are not deserved such f**ing treatment!

Your advice just will increase stress and lead to even bigger depression and suicide rate among men.

We MUST restore natural balance. It is ONLY ONE WAY to go. There is simply no other way (except running away from this country)

>Posted by Prokofieve
>
>If only they didn't have food, legal rights or wear shoes it would >allow more desperate women to sell you their asses at a cheap >price. Or that we are somehow "spoiling" our women by >treating them as equals, both in relationships and under the >law. Please

Problem that in North America women is treated better than man, not equals.

I worked here in the lot of places where they keep women just because they are women not because they are doing good job. My friend paid alimony to his ex wife already one year after she married another guy. You can find all kind of stupidity everywhere in North America which works against the men.

I think Alex made the great post.
His post not perfect but main idea is excellent.

Instead of criticize him we should improve his ideas and use it in our common interests.

Lenin -

You had previously mentioned that your experiences with Brazilian and Cuban women were quite good. In contrast to your negative comments about American women and American(ized) Russian women, what makes these Latin women different?
Darkseid has mentioned his past experience with a Latin woman (that became his fiancee) that came to the States and then became a disaster after hanging out with a feminist for awhile. I think your experience with the Brazilian woman that salvaged your self-esteem was here in N. America. What are the differences, if any, that you see between Latin and Russian women.
I will be going to Buenos Aires in about six weeks and probably Brazil in less than four months. I've appreciated your insightful posts on Russian women - I'd be interested in some of your compare/contrast impressions with your Latin women experiences. Thanks.

DH, very sad stories,

My cousin sister committed suicide because of the conflict with her husband.

DH, joe_zop, virgin , absolutely agree that the PUSSY is the answer to depression.

I myself studied psychiatry to simulate depression in order avoid serving in Soviet Army. It was so scary to find some symptoms what I have learned, inside myself,
after I break up with girlfriend. I did know how to deal with it. It took from me half year to recover.

Last year when I break up I didn’t mess around in Canada. I just went straight to the Cuba and found new GF.

My depression just disappeared after first few f*cks.

I want to add something else to suicide discussion.

I notice something wrong about American culture right away when I came here. When I ask somebody how you are? Usually answer is “Fine!” or “Great!” and I see stupid optimistic smile. It is like everybody around you happy and has no problems. In Russia it would be insult to answer this way.
In Russia it would mean that the respondent is hiding his feeling behind politeness. In Russia in most cases you suppose to say “so-so” and to give small hint about the problem what you have because everybody have problems.

It looks like American culture right from foundation have emotional communication flaw. It forces you to cut emotional communication with others people right in the beginning of the meeting. From DH and darkseid posts it is clear that emotional communication here so bad what people hardly know reason why somebody commits suicide.

If somebody lives in New York City I recommend you to go to Russian restaurant. Don’t hide your feeling. Just tell them, for example, that you are fed up with American women and you are not going to believe have many Russian friends you going to make just in one hour.

Jak,

I had Brazilian women from upper middle class so she had more comfort life In Brazil when here. She just did like a lot of things here. But I notice that her friends who are from lower classes have ability to reject American values too. I don’t know exactly why. Probably because Brazilian culture is so unique and funny that Brazilian women become just bored of American stile of life.
Brazilian women more fun-oriented, Russian women more money-oriented.

One beautiful Brazilian women lived here with Canadian man, who was 20 years older her, for five years. She left him just because for all these years he did
absolutely nothing to help her to get legal status in order to live longer with her.

I had Cubans girls only in Cuba.
I don’t know what would happened with them if I brought them here.
I am afraid that in case of Cubans it could happen the same as with darkseid’s Cuban girlfriend.
Girls who came here from totalitarism countries get much more benefits here and they more grateful to American system.
However I had one girlfriend in Cuba who went to Germany and returned back because she didn’t like to live there.

Main difference between Latin and Russian are Latin girls more feminine and less depressive.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by darkseid
[i]In terms of the suicide discussion, I think one cause of suicide among men tend to be that they bottle up their feelings much more than women instead of discussing it in length.
(SNIP)
It is this societal pressure that men do not communicate their depression and thus they commit suicide because they have no support or no one to turn to for help.
(SNIP)
Instead, society teaches men that we have to face our problems on our own to be "men" and that is why we don't ask for directions when we're lost.
(SNIP)
Sometimes society can be an ass and turn deaf ears on men when men ask for help. They are more likely to favor and help the women more readily than they would help the man. Society tells men to "just deal with their problems" so the depressed men carry out their suicide.[/i][/QUOTE]

Just feel like sharing... several years ago, during a stint in the military, my first wife left me after cheating on me with a friend. She made sure to max all the credit cards before leaving, and, on my military pay, I wasn't able to meed the demands. I ended up going to see a shrink for help because I knew that I was in a major depressive state. I confessed to him that I had a plan to commit suicide. Solution? He convinced me to commit myself, voluntarily, into the psych ward. Funny thing is, that there were two types of patients housed together in this ward. Psychotics and Suicidals.

The conditions were degrading, and the medical staff were about as helpful as Nieman Marcus clerks when they know you're not buying. I learned my lesson, and quickly convinced the doctors that I was all better. Worked out my problems on my own, and read lots of material on what to look for in a suicidal person so that I'd know how to hide any indications from those around me. Now, if I was ever to get ready to take the plunge again, no one would know until it was too late.

[QUOTE][i]
Lesbianism is much more accepted in American society so it is okay for women to even act manly.
[/i][/QUOTE]

I don't think I agree with this. Two sexy, feminine women getting it on is one thing. But, you don't see many mainstream (or pornographic) positive depictions of hardcore bulls. I think my psychology of sexuality professor had it right when he said that the idea of two feminine women making love fascinates men because we can picture ourselves joining in. But, we have no interest in the scenario if we can't imagine ourselves being a part.

[QUOTE][i]
Also notice that NONE of the people here on this forum commited suicide even the most miserable ones (I won't mention any names). [/i][/QUOTE]

If there are any lurkers here who have commited suicide, speak now or forever hold you piece. ;-)

To Prokofiev, Jak, DH, etc.,

I guess what I and perhaps many of us are ultimately looking for is that place overseas which is the ideal blend of hot and readily available SW's, warm climate, good exchange rate and an English speaking or an English friendly environment. Furthermore, we're probably talking about a specific city rather than a country.

For example, I was in Edinburgh, Scotland and the women were great and we speak the same language. However, the exchange rate was a killer and the climate is an acquired taste so I couldn't recommend it for the long term mongerer.

Nominations, opinions and thoughts???



P.S. By the way, all of this discussion about suicide is, quite frankly, rather "depressing" (pun intended). Let's discuss screwing women and not ourselves. Just a thought.

My complaint about American women is not that they have an "equal" (if not superior) footing in social status but it is their stuck up attitudes when men approach them. Even the poor women who look good give you the cold shoulder because they feel "violated" by you looking at them and taking an interest in them. In fact wealth is NO excuse for anyone to be a snob. The girl I met at Brazil comes from a wealthy family (and would still be wealthy if she came here and changed all her Real to Dollars) in brazilian standards. Yet she is the nicest wealthy girl I dated on the planet. In America, the wealthy woman would give you the cold shoulder if you don't match their status. They would roll their eyes or pull out a spray bottle of mace on you if you accost them.
Another complaint is the lack of trust and the prudity. American women make you wait for sex even if you are Brad Pitt.

>posted by Jak
>
> I'd be interested in some of your compare/contrast
> impressions (Russian women) with your Latin women >experiences.

It seems I am going to quit with one more sweet Russian Lady
even without starting anything serious with her.

Our chemistry just began I read article from Kamasutra where was written:

Woman falls in love with every handsome man she sees, and so does every man at the sight of a beautiful woman, but frequently they do not take any further steps,
owing to various considerations.

I thought it is just funny statement, nothing more.
I asked her to give her opinion just for fun. uddenly she became upset and sent me the message:
Most of men pigs and they just want to satisfy their sex needs.
She thinks these men not far from the dogs or monkeys. And after that she refused go out with me.

I was surprise she have such attitude. Well even If I would prove her what I am not the pig, it is too late I already have lost my chemistry.

It is good what I have learned about her in early stage. It seems she Americanized already.

One more plus for Latin Ladies.

Lenin -

While Prokofiev makes many good points, I believe you took his argument to more solid ground.

While it is true that most/many of the men posting here use pros in foreign countries, I do not think that the comparison arguments in general about American women are necessarily flawed. Enough of us have also had many dealings with non-pro foreign women in sexual and non-sexual interactions to form our opinions. While local men generally find pros in their countries to be about as expensive as we find pros to be in America for us, I think they generally find non-pro women to be more available and with better attitudes in their countries (you gave an example of the Brazilian men in Canada - and many other foreign posters with living experience in America have stated the same). American women are "generally" more game-playing, snobbish, untrusting of men, prudish and have an advantage legally in particular to family/domestic law and workers'rights.

I am sure a large part of the attraction an American man has to a woman in a foreign country is his being perceived as "rich" by the women - and I am sure an equal perception with American women would make him more attractive here also - but many foreign men that have lived in America still share the common perception with many American men that the women here are much different (in a negative way) than the women in their native countries.

Paddy -

I think we shared some posts a little while ago on the Czech board. We happened to share the same girl from Belarus several years ago at Mila's? As for the "ideal place" for women in the world - I am hoping it might be the Black Sea coast of the Ukraine and Russia in the summer. I want to explore here in the near future. Whereas Edinburgh, Scotland may have poor weather and a not- so- great exchange rate, I think the downside on the Black Sea would be the language issue - and Russian isn't an easy language to make progress on. But I happen to think Slavic women are the most desirable women, and I think ones taste in women will definitely be a major deciding factor on how one answers the "ideal place" question. Maybe Lenin has some experience and opinions on the Black Sea scene.

Proko...I just had to say that was an awesome post. That - the fact that many of the men in this section seem to want American women to be (again) stripped of all their rights - is something that really gets my back up. They seem to want a woman who has no brains and no mind of her own, who worships the ground he walks on and does what she's told for fear of being hit upside the head!

Personally, I do not see what women having legal rights and workers rights has to do with the lack of sex anyway! Are you guys really saying that you can't go out and get laid, just in case you end up getting married, getting divorced and giving her half the house??? Is the fact that your CEO is a woman really cutting your chances of picking up a chick in a bar?

In my opinion, giving women equal rights - even if in some instances those rights now tip in the woman's favour, to the detriment of men - does not make women any more or less likely to put out! What it DOES do is let women know they don't HAVE to get married and have kids anymore. It DOESN'T tell women that they shouldn't have sex at all - in fact, I would think that women brought up in an age of self-empowerment and selfishness would be MORE likely to be out looking for casual sex.

I'm sorry, but I still think the reason your women are (apparently) so frigid, is your Government. Your Government is completely irresponsible when it comes to ALL matters sexual - be that sex education in schools, community health campaigns (HIV is a good example), condom vending machines in schools, contraceptive pills for teenaged girls...you name it, your Government refuses to deal with it properly! But at the same time, all of you are exposed to sex in the movies, the media, even in the music you listen to. Your culture tells you that you need to be attractive, desirable and sensual to function in society - but your laws tell you that sex is bad. It's no wonder your women are so f'kd up! And it's little wonder that so many of YOU have such f'kd up ideas about how women are supposed to behave!

Oh - and I blame your Government's irresponsibility on the Church.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN
[i]
I'm sorry, but I still think the reason your women are (apparently) so frigid, is your Government. Your Government is completely irresponsible when it comes to ALL matters sexual - be that sex education in schools, community health campaigns (HIV is a good example), condom vending machines in schools, contraceptive pills for teenaged girls...you name it, your Government refuses to deal with it properly! But at the same time, all of you are exposed to sex in the movies, the media, even in the music you listen to. Your culture tells you that you need to be attractive, desirable and sensual to function in society - but your laws tell you that sex is bad. It's no wonder your women are so f'kd up! And it's little wonder that so many of YOU have such f'kd up ideas about how women are supposed to behave!

Oh - and I blame your Government's irresponsibility on the Church. [/i][/QUOTE]

Yeah, Rubbie, that's pretty much it, plus the fact that both the man and the woman are working an excessive amount of hours, often combined with a draining commute. Toss in rampant obesity and you have a recipe for "The Sexless Marriage," a recent best seller I declined to read by some woman whose name I forget.

RN -

I think your comments regarding our government/ religious institutions being responsible for a lot of the prudish attitudes regarding sex in this country has a lot of merit.

It also doesn't help that we have one of the most workaholic cultures in the world that drains time and energy from both men and women (whether in a married situation or not), and then of course, our famously high number of obese American women that decreases the percentage of desirable American women (that observation has been mentioned to me on numerous occasions in other countries). Okay, we also have a higher percentage of the men that are obese than in other countries (I'll toss you that bone).

I will take issue with you on the women's right aspect that you talked about in your third paragraph. You state, "I would think that women brought up in an age of self-empowerment and selfishness would be MORE likely to be out looking for casual sex." I would too. The problem with American feminism is that it comes wrapped with a lot of man-hating, man-bashing rhetoric and attitudes. Lenin's last post included an excellent example that I have too often experienced with American women. "Men are pigs, etc." Of course, women are pure and all that compared to the Neanderthal man that has kept them down throughout history, blah, blah, blah. This is the mentality we are dealing with here. So yeah, in this sense, "American feminism" does stand in the way of making women more approachable here. It contributes greatly to the "attitudes" that the men frequently gripe about here. Lenin's recent experience with his Americanized Russian woman puts it out there under the spotlight. The wisdom of the Kamasutra that has held through the generations regarding men and women as being equal in their reactions to an attractive member of the opposite sex was somehow "offensive" to this Americanized woman. Sorry to say, but this attitude is all to real.

I have to agree with RN that just because a woman is rich doesn't mean she is a snob. Rich women in other countries that I met were willing to sleep with me. It is the racist and snobbih attitudes of the American women that causes a lower batting average for men here. Women here want a SPECIFIC men_ one of the same race, tall, rich, and handsome, (and sometimes of the same religion). This is why NYC has so few interracial marriages and dating. And even if people do hook up, the Puritanical attitudes of these women make another barrier to intimacy. You then have another hurdle, the lack of trust. Then you have to be approved by her friends that she listens to more than you...etc. American women put up so many barriers that squeezing sex out of them is like squeezing water from a dry rock from a desert. Even the poor women in the USA have the same attitudes. They want the same type of perfect guy that the rich or middle class women want. I don't qualify because I am too short in height and American women also hate my nationality (with the small johnson jokes and all against Asians).
Also the laws FAVORING women over men may also cause women to walk over the men like the point that Lenin is making. I don't agree that women should not be able to hold CEO positions but the government should cut us guys a break when it comes to marriage and divorce.