American Women

Havanaman, not all American women agree with the puritanical ways of this society. Yes, there are some that rebel against it but would like to keep it a secret. A lot of American women love sex but are afraid to admit it. You also did the right thing which is approaching the girl when she is not around friends. There are nofriends to mock her for being "easy". Michigan tends to be a bit more lenient than New York women. New York women are flat out prudes but my most recent fling was with a girl who visited New York from Michigan. I lived in New York all my life and had to pry them open for months. They refuse to sleep with me until after 5 dates!. Trust me, I asked them for it after the second date and they said no until 3 dates more. Some even hold off on you for longer. Not to mention, New York women are more paranoid and scoff at guys that approach them in bars or clubs. That is how I tell the New Yorkers from the tourists.

Fedup,

Thanks for your kind words, I’m planning a Havana revisit 23 Dec. – 1 Jan, (also 13 Dec – 22 Dec Buenos Aires). Join me / hook up?.
Your “youthful arrogance” is spot-on, I totally agree about planning for after the fact… ~ It’s probably why I’m still single, and happy!

Darkseid,

5 dates! That’s really heavy. More respect to you for hanging-in there and going for it! Too much for me, I think I would fold after 3…

I was considering a trip state-side in '03, now I’m sold. I can wangle a couple of weeks, but at least 6 days must be spent in W-DC…. Michigan is now on the top of my list after this, for when I cross the pond.

Oh, I must tell you, I asked her today why she responded to my directness: she says it reminded her of her father (!!), and she loved my accent (British…). That’s another first. Lesson learned: an ugly boy like me, I’m taking elocution lessons.

Gentlemen, any other USA city you would recommend where one might meet less aggressive women?

Regards,

Havanaman

Havanaman,

I read your story about the woman who responded to the more "direct" approach. I just wanted to comment that perhaps she wouldn't really be representative of a "normal" American woman. From what I can gather, she is in your country at the moment, not hers...and we all know what "holidayitis" can do to a girl. ;) I think most of us tend to leave our inhibitions behind when we go away...especially when we go to a place where nobody knows us. Knowing that at some point we will be leaving, and that none of the silly things we do can follow us home, gives us the freedom to do what we want and to hell with the consequences. That same woman, had you met in her the US, may have been too afraid of what her family, friends, society, etc thought of her, to respond in the same way to your direct approach.

That's not to say that there isn't women who would respond positively in their home environment. I have said before that *I* would always prefer a man used a direct response, rather spinning me a line of bullshit. (How can you "think you're falling in love with me"? We only met three minutes ago!) It's not so much what he says or what he offers...just the fact that he is honest about his intentions.

And hey...a British accent is certainly an advantage! LOL

RN, I read your post and it reminded of me a few encounters, while they were not productive, they established my view in the eyes of the lady of interest at the moment as a go-getting ballsy dude. What these particular encounters had in common was the fact that I spotted said cutie and tried to think of a clever line to drop on her, but I came up blank. Not wanting to spend the rest of my life asking: "What If?", I just dropped the pretense, approached her and gave it to her up front, but in a manner that wasn't crass. Told her I thought she was beautiful, I'd like to ask her out and that I wasn't going to sit around for the rest of my life asking the aforementioned question. Although they were involved with S.O.'s (or so they said) they were totally blown away by my directness and at the very least, it ended up as a nice chat.

I think that this American women has been a great learning experience for me. A first in many ways: and certainly a first for the direct approach. I should add that Sinanjumaster’s remarks about dropping the pretence and including some compliments in the direct approach is probably the best method. I went down (!) this line more out of frustration than planning. Now that I have seen it work, there is no reason that directness, tempered with good taste and being gentlemanly, should not be a normal method. At the very least the “no” can turn into a good conversation…

About being a representative of a "normal" American woman. RN, I totally agree with you. I do feel that time, space and the issue of "holidayitis" are major factors at work here. As, I suspect is “need”. Far be it from me to criticise her motives: we are both having an excellent time. I once heard someone say “satisfaction guarantees a return visit…”. This will continue for as long as it will, and then we both move on…The perfect normality for me….

More and more I think that there probably isn’t anything special about the so called “attitude” of American women. I’m being drawn more to an idea espoused by one of my colleagues, who claims that in first world countries women are learning more about their own worth / value when it comes to a comparison with men. This naturally leads to them being more dominant in their requirements (physical, emotional, independence etc), much as men are (or think they are!). I feel that this a natural evolution and one that can only lead to bettering the whole man-women interaction in general. I would add that there will always be women (…and off course men…) who will exploit a situation for credit: be it cash or kudos…

So, you like “British accents”? You think this will bode well for me in Australia? Hmmm, I’m reasonably well travelled, but not yet set foot on your sunny shores. Am I missing out I wonder…?

Regards,

Havanaman

I also noticed that the holidayists that are open to meeting men are usually alone and not huddled with a group of friends. If they are with friends, they split up and go to the bar alone, get your number and leave with them then call you the day after for some time alone. They don't want to be seen flirting because in American society, it is "shameful" for them because it makes them look "easy" or "loose". This bullshit is what makes it harder to hook up in American women because I can ell that they live by this fear of what others think. The woman traveller doesn't have to worry about what the co-workers in the office think, or what the people in the neighborhood or apartment building thinks. They are there alone and they are not ashamed of being caught with even a butt ugly guy. When I did approach girls in groups, I sensed that the girl was afraid of what her friends might think of me and she is afraid that she will be criticized for choosing me. I find nothing wrong with me but she probably thinks that 5' 6" is too short for a guy and she's afarid that the friends would think she can't find a 6' or 7' tall guy.
Havanaman, it is suggested that you avoid New York city if you want a companion because even the loose ones are like what I explained, the 5 date wait. New York city women are the biggest prudes in the universe. They also don't trust ANYONE! If you are going to New York, it should only be for seeing the sites. Also prostitution is illegal here big time so there is nothing to fall back on if you don't meet any girl in the clubs. Michigan is a lot more liberal than NY, in fact any place is.

darkseid,

Thanks for your views, but this 5-dates thing is really putting me off! Thanks on the NY opinion: I think you are right about NY women. I spoke to my “friend” and she confirmed what you said. Basically it comes down to trust as you have pointed out. The NY women have very little… Why is that? Every American I have known has been a nice guy, pleasant and IMHO trustworthy; but then I have only dealt with medics / other professionals.

Michigan is still at the top of my list when I vist. Any comments on Glenwood, (Minnesota); I have a female pen pal there, and am wondering if a visit would be worthwhile…

Thanks once again.

Regards,

Havanaman

As a foreigner living in the US I can offer you a few things that I've noticed.

1: America is a paranoid society (especially after 9/11). The media constantly shows violent crimes and other things that can "kill" you. The truth is that violent crime has been on a constant downturn since the 80's (but prison incarceration is on the upturn). However because of this constant attention it makes the women distrustful.

2:American men also have a disturbing tendency to beat their wifes.

3: Women are very objectified. Particularly those who are attractive... mainly because there are so few.

4: It's a very prudish/fanatical society. Bush just signed papers to make sure "In God We Trust" didn't get removed from the federal motto.

5: Many women here have serious self esteem problems (cosmetic surgery, fake tits, liposuction, etc...)

6: You have obviously never met a true american c_unt... think Rosanne without money.

FedUP,

As a USA born & raised male let me address your statements.

1. Have you ever heard of the term "if it bleeds it leads"? You are half right about the media making women distrustful but the other part is the FemiNazi brigade always planting into womens minds that they don't need a man. BTW Americans have a right to be paranoid after 9/11.

2. What sparkling country do you come from? No one beats their wife there??? Really ingnorant statement.

3. "Women are objectified because we have so few" Again another ingnorant statement. We have a plethora of attractive women but attitude is another story.

4. So what. Just because one may like to fuck does not mean we Americans do not beleive in God. We also don't want some atheistic liberal asshole like the one that got "One nation under GOD" removed from the American Pledge of Allegience to get some asshole court to side with him & take "In GOD we trust" away from us!

5 & 6. I actually agree with. Rosanne or the Julia Roberts type.

Do please inform us of what great nation you come from.

Fedup's from Canada, so he certainly has seen his fair share about American society, and while I agree that at time his minor Canadian chip vibrates, he manages to keep it pretty well under control for the most part. :)

While I agree with you that statement #2, about men beating their wives (which statistically is actually far more prevalent in many other places but doesn't get the same societal discussion or play that it does in the states) is a bit much, I don't think he's all that far off on the rest. And some of us liberal atheist assholes -- or more accurately, non-Christians -- get pretty tired of you god-loving types jamming your specific beliefs down our throats just because you think you've got the right to do so -- the "under God" thing in the pledge wasn't added until the 50's and the pledge worked just fine until then as a patriotic statement and also since the phrase has been gone as well, thank you very much. That bland generalizing that all Americans think the way you do (or should) is exactly what many of us find most annoying and why there are challenges to things such as these -- there are plenty who do not feel that way, and the foundation of the country is supposed to be tolerance and the tradition of healthy dissent as opposed to blindly following.

Fedup's dead on that American society is prudish and fanatical, not to mention insular. (Did you note that the just released study that notes under 20% of American high school students can find Afghanistan on a map? And distressingly similar numbers for other world hot spots?) And those attitudes clearly affect women's perspectives, as in general they're definitely more prudish and paranoid here than in other places.

Just read Fedup's top six. I would also emphatically agree with his comment about the "Rosanne types."

Just got back from Eastern Europe and I'm continually amazed by the beauty of the women there. The short skits, long flowing hair, heels, earrings, etc. You almost never see one who is overweight.

Got off the plane in the USA and saw "Rosanne types" all over the place. You know the kind. Thunder thighs, jeans, butch hair cuts, etc. It's interesting to watch them shuffle up and down the concourses. I can assure you that a woman in Prague wouldn't even come out of the house looking like that.

One thing I've also noticed over the years is that these Rosanne types often have little kids in tow. Geez, are guys actually fu*cking these gorillas????? It maybe goes to show how bad American men have it and how "acclimated" we have become to these types of women.

Have you guys noted this same phenomenon of these "Rosanne types" who are often walking around with kids in tow? Is it just me?

Just another atheistic liberal asshole here to say: Allen Eire, maybe you were born and raised in the US but it looks like you played hooky the day they studied the constitution at whatever high school you flunked out of. You might want to read it, especially the disestablishment clause. Oh, and FUCK George Bush. "One nation, under god" does not belong in the pledge of allegiance and "In god We Trust" does not belong on our money. Now "E pluribus unum" is a motto I can live with. I bet Allen Eire doesn't know what it means, though.

Oh, and JZ, did you catch last week's Business Week? Our top-rated weekly magazine had a map of Europe and they had Slovakia labelled as Slovenia. Of course, they had Slovenia labelled as Slovenia too so I guess that makes up for it (not). I do apologize to all you Bojohns out there.

Paddy, your reference to the Roseanne types and your dismay at the seeming prevalance of American men f*cking them through being acclimated to them was hilarious! To be more specific, your reference was hilarious, your dismay is not, and should be taken seriously. I liken you to Toto pulling back the curtain hiding the "Feminazi of Oz"! LOL Keep exposing them, Paddy!

The apparent LACK of knowledge of world events, geography of foreign countries, etc among American citizens (especially our youth) is appaling. Hell, at age 9 I knew where MOST of the countries of the world were located. I also knew much of ancient (foreign) and American history, and Greek and Roman mythology. Then again, in recent years the quality of education in our system is like that of our nation's bridges: deteriorating.

Well, guess I can't say it better than that... thanks guys.

I also saw the high school test and was appalled to see that 1 in 10 couldn't find the US on a world map without labels.

Knowledge is power. To keep the hypnotic patriotism required to run the US you need a society with herd mentality... enter the domineering church and a poor education system. There is plenty of money in the US to better fund education... just stop spending it all on guns. Individual Americans are quite reasonable but they are somehow held in control by an elite few who are coerced by corporate donations. This country needs a good civil revolt.

but I digress

I returned home from Miami last week and was immediately stunned by the uglies waddling about.

Many hot chicas in Miami. Lot's of SW's on South Beach too.

And who's fucking the Roseanne types? Hey... alot of the guys around here ain't too pretty either. They gotta mate with something.

Just imagine the kids.

dickhead: "out of many, one" dickhead shall rise above the rest to insult a board poster who did not insult him personally. no i did not play hookey during history class or geography class of the prep school that i did not flunk out of. as i said sir i do beleive in god & identify with christians but do not feel compelled to go convert the world. i simply stated that just because i like to fuck does not mean i'm happy to see another left-wing atheist aclu type eliminate the term god from everything, however, when some touchy feely soul wants to adorn a public place or give their message of buddism or islam at an institution of taxpayer finance well not a peep out of mr. aclu. whether you like it or not this country the usa that our forfathers conquered was founded on christian religious principals. the framers (i should hope you know who they were.) wanted a separation of church and state not because they were atheists but to prevent a dominant sect of christianity rising to the top of leadership & setting the precident for who should worship in what manner but moreover & more importantly they did not want future leaders ( not just the presidency) of this country to make decisions based on what the leaders of their denomination of christianity felt. the framers wanted future decisions of this great country to be based on what's best for the nation & not the church. so let's just say we'll have to disagree & don't call someone out unless they call you out personally. btw i'm not some bible thumping asshole spaming. i was responding to fed up's rant.

i did not insult fed up. i stated that he made a couple of ignorant statements, which he did. i've been to toronto (canadian mid-west) victoria & vancover (west coast) guess what, i saw women of all body types there but did not remain for an extended period of time to get a real feel (pun intended) of the women there.

i'm not looking to turn this into a ploitical agenda/religion column. i just took umbrage with a couple of fed up's statements. so if you feel you must respond at length about your political/religious rant then e-mail it to me at [email]alleneire@hotmail.com[/email] i don't check it everyday so i'm not on pins & needles waiting. i recognize that there are problems that exist with women from highly populated cities but the usa is quite vast & i've met some excellent american women