American Women

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Australia is now becoming too much like the US thanks to globalization, Oprah is now showed here on TV. I plan on packing my bags for Eastern Europe in about 5 years, hopefully I plan to wind up in Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic or somewhere else with some fine Eastern Euro females. I do like America and what my forefathers did to bring democracy around the world, but it seems as if our great country has been snatched by the feminazis who are looking to spread their ideology around the planet.[/QUOTE]

fuckin' oprah's on the tube in bucharest (basic cable). ee will fulfill the worse american stereotypes within the the next decade. and dont tell a pole they live in ee...they will politely correct you and say that they are "european unionites" or central europeans..

I fully understand your glass half empty stance and its been taken note of.

I really do like this Hungrian girl however, no stopping that. As for the others, well, find them, fuck them and flee might be the right thing to do...


[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]DJ,

Don't get bogged down with any particular woman. If you want the best value for your dollars, fuck and flee! Getting too emotionally connected with these women before you really know them is bad business. A lot of European women are players and fucking you is no big deal to them, especially the Swedes. Be careful or you just might end up being someone's chocolate fix and end up pulling up the sheets the next morning with some money on the night stand like Eddie Murphy in Boomerang.

3F those skanks and yell out, "Next!"

Okay, I'm off to finish packing for my trip.[/QUOTE]

There's been a lot of talk about globalization and how US style feminism is spreading around the world.

But, has anyone considered Latin America? They seem to have a very strong culture. In fact, the recent trend down there seems to be actually rejecting the "Americanization" process. If anything, Mexico would appear to be encroaching on the U.S. along the borderlands.

I remember when I was in Miami last year. There was this shopping mall we went to..... almost the entire crowd was hispanic of one kind or another. What's more, half the people working in the stores could barely speak english.

This globalization thing cuts both ways. In addition, the feminazi movement is based largely on American economic success at home. It's also partly dependent on that economic strength for it to be able to continue spreading abroad. With the U.S. heading towards an uncertain future (colossal expenditures on war, titanic trade and budget deficits, unimaginable national debt), I think that this Feminazi B.S. will lose out eventually. All of the unfair laws will still be in the books for generations to come, but women's attitudes will change.

The only question is, how long will it take and how many of us will be young enough to care?

Rock

Gee Rock, cheering for everything to turn to shit just to knock the pins out from feministaism isn't very productive. I think it's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Besides, the female sense of entitlement is like rust - it never sleeps, it just spreads.

Hardbag,

You misunderstand me...... I'm not hoping for things to go that way. It's just my prediction based on how things are going right NOW.

To be honest, I couldn't give you any exact figures on budget deficits, trade imbalances or national debts. But when those numbers are measured in the TRILLIONS, and going up every day, you know it's going to get bad someday.

Part of this spread of feminism is based on the strength and popularity of American culture. However, if the US declines as an economic (and by extension, military) power, this cultural influence will probably weaken as well. Not something I'd hope for, but it is what I think is coming.

Remember the British Empire? Nope? Me neither..... but up until 60 years ago, they were still a major power in the world. A hundred years ago, they were the superpower economically and militarily. They were also a strong cultural influence as well. In fact, many of todays sexual mores and attitudes were strongly influenced by Victorian age Britain (sexual tightasses).

Where did they go? Well, the economic drain of fighting 2 world wars in a 25 year period pretty much did them in. While they were on the decline, the US was on the rise. Now today you have the US fighting "The War on Terror" spending countless billions on Homeland Security and economically China and India are on their way up. See any similarities?

Rock.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
But, has anyone considered Latin America? They seem to have a very strong culture. In fact, the recent trend down there seems to be actually rejecting the "Americanization" process. If anything, Mexico would appear to be encroaching on the U.S. along the borderlands.

I remember when I was in Miami last year. There was this shopping mall we went to..... almost the entire crowd was hispanic of one kind or another. What's more, half the people working in the stores could barely speak english.[/QUOTE]
And here is the problem with this:
-From [url]www.us-english.org[/url]
In 1999, the average employed immigrant who spoke English very well earned $40,741, more than double the $16,345 earned by immigrants who did not speak English at all.

The number of Americans who do speak English "not at all" jumped from 1.22 million in 1980 to 3.37 million in 2000, a 176 percent increase over 20 years (Source: U.S. Census)

Since 1980, the number of U.S. residents who are limited English proficient has more than doubled, from 10.2 million to 21.3 million. In 1980, fewer than 1-in-20 Americans struggled with English. Now, nearly 1-in-12 do. (Source: U.S. Census)

__________
I personally get a big kick out of the alien workers who come into my workplace to send money back home who don't speak any English at all. I get to say "go fuck yourself" with a big smile. Kind of like how they do me when I got to Mexico or the DR, and I play no comprende with them. I speak enough Spanish to know what they're really saying to me.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
But, has anyone considered Latin America? They seem to have a very strong culture. In fact, the recent trend down there seems to be actually rejecting the "Americanization" process.
Rock[/QUOTE]

I have considered Latin America. I have been traveling there for action for 10 years. I met and dated a Colombiana for a year.

If you are serious about a relationship, as opposed to what Chocha Monger advocates, a Latina can bring you LOTS of pleasure and happiness. The key is to find a good woman. Many Latinas see how AW live here through TV, mvies, etc., and the greedy materialistic ones will use a man to get the same US lifestyle. Non-materialistic Latinas prefer to earn just enough to be comfortable, abnd then spend the rest of their time with their families.

If you are a "homebody man" and don't need to "keep up with the Jones' ", then a Latina is for you.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Hardbag,

You misunderstand me...... I'm not hoping for things to go that way. It's just my prediction based on how things are going right NOW.

To be honest, I couldn't give you any exact figures on budget deficits, trade imbalances or national debts. But when those numbers are measured in the TRILLIONS, and going up every day, you know it's going to get bad someday.

Part of this spread of feminism is based on the strength and popularity of American culture. However, if the US declines as an economic (and by extension, military) power, this cultural influence will probably weaken as well. Not something I'd hope for, but it is what I think is coming.

Remember the British Empire? Nope? Me neither..... but up until 60 years ago, they were still a major power in the world. A hundred years ago, they were the superpower economically and militarily. They were also a strong cultural influence as well. In fact, many of todays sexual mores and attitudes were strongly influenced by Victorian age Britain (sexual tightasses).

Where did they go? Well, the economic drain of fighting 2 world wars in a 25 year period pretty much did them in. While they were on the decline, the US was on the rise. Now today you have the US fighting "The War on Terror" spending countless billions on Homeland Security and economically China and India are on their way up. See any similarities?

Rock.[/QUOTE]
I definitely see the similarity, the US is bogged down in the Middle East(US will be in Iraq even after 2008 when Bush leaves and whoever takes his place, I hope its not Hilary Clinton), while China and India are focusing on economic growth. A lot of US and European technology is being sent to both these countries, which will allow both to modernize within 10 to 15 years.

In the latest GQ there is a story about an American who tired of the AW BS and went to Colombia to pick out a wife. Seems he was like a kid in a candy store and picked a hot little Colombiana and took her back to Brooklyn with him where he got her pregnant. She turned too posessive for him and he packed her off to Colombia. Sounds kind of effed up from what I read while in CVS killing time waiting for my pasta dinner. The end of the article the guy says he wants his freedom back to hang out with models and AW's in Manhattan clubs and be single again.

[QUOTE=Mike12]In the latest GQ there is a story about an American who tired of the AW BS and went to Colombia to pick out a wife. Seems he was like a kid in a candy store and picked a hot little Colombiana and took her back to Brooklyn with him where he got her pregnant. She turned too posessive for him and he packed her off to Colombia. Sounds kind of effed up from what I read while in CVS killing time waiting for my pasta dinner. The end of the article the guy says he wants his freedom back to hang out with models and AW's in Manhattan clubs and be single again.[/QUOTE]


.....even men's magazines (particularly the more "upscale" ones) can be written with a wussy pro feminine bias. I've seen articles in Esquire and GQ that are tantamount to "Fresh new ways to kiss your girlfriend's ass", and little comments to the effect of "Understand that your woman is the perfect creature, and is always right."....so take anything you read with the appropriate grain of salt.

[QUOTE=DirkDingy]fuckin' oprah's on the tube in bucharest (basic cable). ee will fulfill the worse american stereotypes within the the next decade. and dont tell a pole they live in ee...they will politely correct you and say that they are "european unionites" or central europeans..[/QUOTE]Eh, there is no conspiracy. Oprah and Oprah alike TV shows are transmitted not of political reasons. There is no hidden feminist agenda. Channels transmitting these shows are doing it because the mass produced American talk shows are cheap. Simple as that.

You won't see Oprah on quality networks, but on commercial bloated cheaper "entertainment" channels. Different strokes for different folks. And don't blame Romanians for their desire to belong to Europe.

Mike12,

So who wrote that story anyways? The author may very well be a woman, or even a woman writing under a man's name. If that is the case, you have some obvious built-in bias coming from the author.

If it's a man writing the story things might be a little bit different. Did the writer actually tag along while these things were happening? Did he know the guy personally or was it all based on third party word of mouth? If the writer IS a guy, he may have some AW stuck-up **** of a girlfriend that he's trying to impress by writing a story about how bad things turn out when you go for a foreign girl.

Even if every single word is true, it just proves that there's no guarantees in life.

Rock

That story was discussed on other forums. It seems the story was not totally on the up-and-up. The author is a photographer for GQ. Some believe a similar story line was pitched to GQ a few years ago and this guy went to Colombia as the photog for a story on mail-order-brides. He got hitched to one and used his experience to write a story for his employer.

If the circumstances of meeting her were even partly contrived, then the whole relationship, and therefore the published story, is a sham. I haven't read the entire article, and cannot confirm other posters' allegations. Take my post, and the GQ story, with many grain of salt.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Hardbag,

You misunderstand me...... I'm not hoping for things to go that way. It's just my prediction based on how things are going right NOW.

To be honest, I couldn't give you any exact figures on budget deficits, trade imbalances or national debts. But when those numbers are measured in the TRILLIONS, and going up every day, you know it's going to get bad someday.

Part of this spread of feminism is based on the strength and popularity of American culture. However, if the US declines as an economic (and by extension, military) power, this cultural influence will probably weaken as well. Not something I'd hope for, but it is what I think is coming.

Remember the British Empire? Nope? Me neither..... but up until 60 years ago, they were still a major power in the world. A hundred years ago, they were the superpower economically and militarily. They were also a strong cultural influence as well. In fact, many of todays sexual mores and attitudes were strongly influenced by Victorian age Britain (sexual tightasses).

Where did they go? Well, the economic drain of fighting 2 world wars in a 25 year period pretty much did them in. While they were on the decline, the US was on the rise. Now today you have the US fighting "The War on Terror" spending countless billions on Homeland Security and economically China and India are on their way up. See any similarities?

Rock.[/QUOTE]

I actually enjoy discussing geopolitics and history, but find this a strange place to be doing so. I'll try to be brief.

Yes, empires come and go. If they happen to be democracies, maybe even quicker. Democracies have a hard time being ruthless enough to run things very long. For instance, our best policy would be to foment and facilitate a worldwide Sunni/Shia civil war throughout all Islam for the next couple of generations. They're trying real hard to get started in Iraq, and we're trying to stop it. Just not ruthless enough.

The Brits had a long run. Their fall coincided with a worldwide end to colonialism. Not entirely their fault. WWI was the death knell for an already faltering way of life. They never recovered from their "victory". Casualties were in the millions. More like 90 years ago. By the time of WWII they were already a second class power.

Yes, the US will eventually fade, but to compare the costs of Iraq to those of WWI and/or WWII is quite a stretch. To predict it will produce that kind of world change is irresponsible.

As to feminism, social movements have a life of their own. F-ism's time has come, or it has not. It's relationship to US political and economic influence is transitory. In my opinion, f-ism is an attribute of the Industrial Revolution and the realignment of our species by the IR. That transcends any political structure. Only time will tell.

You don't seem to see how much modern f-ism reflects British Victorianism. I'd say "sexual tightass" is a great description of your standard American f-ist. The woman's suffrage movement, precursor to our feministas, was an invention of Victorian England. Many of the most revered heroines in the f-ist pantheon were proper Victorian ladies. Just as Victorianism has morphed with the political fading of the Victorians, post American f-ism will morph and continue - if it is viable.

I gave it a quick read over-kindly correct me if I picked up anything wrong.

1. This guy was not a "normal guy". His days are spent pouring water, honey and whipped cream on photo models.

2. Mostly, we only got one side of the story.

3. He went down to Columbia, picked out a girl that he didn't have any common language with, and brought her back to New York City (hello culture shock) IMMEDIATELY.

4. He had a weirdo (in my opinion) pseudo stepfather thing with the eight year old daughter of an ex-girlfriend (he is not the biological father). This caused Roxie the Columbiian girl to become very jealous, insecure, and behave abberantly. This may seem a little strange, and be "points against" Roxie, but on the other hand, I have actually seen an American girl get jealous of A KITTEN-yes, I mean the purring kind with fur, four legs and a tail.

Think of Roxie's position....she is totally dependent on this guy who has constant exposure to smoking hot women, is dropped suddenly from abject poverty in Columbia to NYC where she doesn't speak the language and is unexpectedly caused to have to play stepmother to a female child that this guy is inexplicably playing daddy for. Oh, and she became pregnant (Guy knew there was no birth control being practiced)....I'm not sure if the guy was going to support her financially or not.

I strongly suspect that most women would go a little wacko in that situation.

B9k

Adding on: If I understood correctly the guy's first pick down in Columbia was "taken" by another man (age 42, an Argentinian living in Miami). He (as a wealthy pretty boy) attempted to lure her away from him, but she was faithful and refused to "better deal" the guy she was committed to.

[QUOTE=Leeuwen]Eh, there is no conspiracy. Oprah and Oprah alike TV shows are transmitted not of political reasons. There is no hidden feminist agenda. Channels transmitting these shows are doing it because the mass produced American talk shows are cheap. Simple as that.

You won't see Oprah on quality networks, but on commercial bloated cheaper "entertainment" channels. Different strokes for different folks. And don't blame Romanians for their desire to belong to Europe.[/QUOTE]

are you german? many of my best mates are bavarians; a combination of logic, efficiency, and moral decadence that I can identify with.

your post brings two quotes to mind: 1. “any club that would accept me as a member I wouldn’t want to belong to.” & 2.“the utmost desires of the oppressed is to exchange places with the oppressor.” Woody Allen uttered the former and an Algerian political theorist (whose name presently escapes me) writing about french colonialism said the latter.

Oprah: one can’t help but marvel at the success and longevity of oprah and her media conglomerate. I don’t think nelsien has ever seen such a show that cuts across the various (female) demographics the way her show does. she’s the closest thing to a female berlusconi the world has seen—she singlehandedly manuipualted the new york time’s best seller list when she catapulted a (largely embellished) tacky memoir from obscurity to numero uno. although anyone with any mentionable amount of testosterone would be hard-pressed to stomach a full hour of her show on a normal day, one would find equal difficulty in expressing any articulable qualms with the show….just too pink for me.

I once saw oprah say that she disagreed with the western institution of marriage and that it “stifled the expression of love.” I couldn’t help but chuckle at the baron of feminism’s role reversal: here she is with her trophy boyfriend (Steadman) saying that the reason why she doesn’t want to get married is because she doesn’t want to give her partner ½ a billion when things go south.

Every time my ee girls watch oprah they give me a look that says, “are you Americans that lucky where you have to create problems for yourselves?” My reply is always, “in general, yes, we are that lucky.”

I don’t “blame” Romania for wanting to be part of the EU. But I think the journey to accession is worth more to these countries than membership in an organization that issues unenforceable bureaucratic decrees from Brussels will ever be. Romanians now get to learn such indispensable things like a bribing a judge does not equate to justice and if your write something down and sign it it’s best for all parties if they intend to adhere to said document. But really man, reform and prosperity take more than simply sowing another star on a flag and humming ode to joy.

DD:

The quote is from Groucho Marx (not Woody Allen)... and one of my favorites too.

Here are a couple more GM quotes:

"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasnt it."

"Women should be obscene and not heard."

"Go, and never darken my towels again."

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]DD:

The quote is from Groucho Marx (not Woody Allen)... and one of my favorites too.[/QUOTE]

i've yet to attend law school (a few months away).. but i wrote "uttered"; thus, i did not incorrectly attribute the quote.

Dirk,

I think Leeuwen sounds like a dutch name, of course that's pretty close to German anyways. We might not agree with everything he says, but it's nice to have differing points of view here.

It's funny what you said about Oprah.... she sure does like to put a spin on things with regards to her own actions. That's the way women are these days. If a woman works a low paying job with long hours, it's exploitation. If a man has the same job, he's told he should be looking for something better.

Rock

I was reading about a US expat living in the Canary Islands and how globalization is spreading a more affluent lifestyle to places few would suspect, with this expect women around the world to become more "Americanized", talking to a friend who travels to some very quickly emerging economies, he noticed that the women in these places are becoming very American in their mentality(spend money they don't have, expect men to bend over for them, eat fatty and sugary food, dress badly, etc.). I think Americans living abroad still have a few advantages but they will eventually wither, I was sitting in a lounge near where I live and a couple of ladies heard my American accent, suddenly they were paying attention to me. Then again I could go near a college campus, and that same accent could get me some unfriendly comments. Then again you got the conartists trying to empty your wallet or get a green card. I swear every Thai, Korean, other Asian chic has hit on me during my six years in Australia probably because I am a gateway to the USA.

CBGB,
If I was you, I'd show them the gateway to my bedroom. Then, send them home with some cab fare and a sore coochie.

If they want to play it that way, they can take it that way.

Rock

By Hiba Moussa
Wed Apr 12, 9:47 AM ET

DOMINOS NIGHTS

If a shisha smoke is a heaven for some, playing dominos is sacrosanct for others.

Omar, 25, who asked to be identified only by his first name, said his mother has bought him extra blankets, pillows and mattresses so that friends, even those who live next door, could sleep at his house when they meet for a dominos game at night.

"One night two of my friends were robbed by thieves as soon as they left my house," said Omar at the end of a game, where he shared tea and cigarettes with friends.

Before U.S.-led forces invaded Iraq in 2003, Omar and his family, like most Iraqis, used to go out at weekends for picnics or strolls, staying out until late. As security worsened, the only place they feel safe now is the living room.

"We have to adjust ourselves with these new circumstances," he said. "Life must go on, you know."

"OPRAH"

Sahar Moussa, a 40-year-old teacher, said that watching television has become a daily "passion" in her life, especially during the evenings after she gets back home from school.

"I love watching satellite TV channels," she said. "I can't think of doing anything else rather than to sit and watch TV."

With endless television programs available through satellite channels, the only show that Moussa thinks is worth watching is "The Oprah Winfrey Show."

"I love 'The Oprah Winfrey Show'," she said. "I liked her when she gave away cars to her audience for free!"

Before violence escalated in Baghdad's streets, Moussa said she enjoyed visiting friends or shopping late at night.

Although she said she enjoyed watching TV, she said it also had its drawbacks. "I gained a few pounds in one week," she said. "From now on, I have to stop eating chips."


[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060412/wl_nm/iraq_leisure_dc[/url]

This week on Thursday (yesterday) there was an interesting report in "Outlook" (bbcworldservice) in which an AW lesbian journalist tells about her 1.5 year during which she posed as a man while dating women. Towards the end of the interview on Outlook she confesses :"I have now a tremendous amount of sympathy for men..." , "we women make men who they are as much as men make men who they are and we should take a certain amount of responsiblility for this" , "there is a certain arrogance we do have about the fact that we are probably more emotionally skilled" , "both as a woman and a lesbian I tended to have the prejudices of overesteeming my own sex..."

To hear the interview, go to the bottom left of the bbcworldservice homepage (RADIO PROGRAMMES), go to "Outlook" in the A-Z list, click on "Go" and scroll down to "Thursday""Listen to Thursday's Edition" . The interview starts at 41'58" :

Is it a man's world?

A few years ago US journalist Norah Vincent set out on an unusual experiment: for the following 18 months, she pretended to be a man. She called herself Ned, learnt to walk and talk like a man and applied make-up to fake day-old stubble. Amazingly no-one found her out, though she did eventually confess all to some of the people she had become friends with.

[QUOTE=DirkDingy]By Hiba Moussa
Wed Apr 12, 9:47 AM ET

DOMINOS NIGHTS

If a shisha smoke is a heaven for some, playing dominos is sacrosanct for others.

Omar, 25, who asked to be identified only by his first name, said his mother has bought him extra blankets, pillows and mattresses so that friends, even those who live next door, could sleep at his house when they meet for a dominos game at night.

"One night two of my friends were robbed by thieves as soon as they left my house," said Omar at the end of a game, where he shared tea and cigarettes with friends.

Before U.S.-led forces invaded Iraq in 2003, Omar and his family, like most Iraqis, used to go out at weekends for picnics or strolls, staying out until late. As security worsened, the only place they feel safe now is the living room.

"We have to adjust ourselves with these new circumstances," he said. "Life must go on, you know."

"OPRAH"

Sahar Moussa, a 40-year-old teacher, said that watching television has become a daily "passion" in her life, especially during the evenings after she gets back home from school.

"I love watching satellite TV channels," she said. "I can't think of doing anything else rather than to sit and watch TV."

With endless television programs available through satellite channels, the only show that Moussa thinks is worth watching is "The Oprah Winfrey Show."

"I love 'The Oprah Winfrey Show'," she said. "I liked her when she gave away cars to her audience for free!"

Before violence escalated in Baghdad's streets, Moussa said she enjoyed visiting friends or shopping late at night.

Although she said she enjoyed watching TV, she said it also had its drawbacks. "I gained a few pounds in one week," she said. "From now on, I have to stop eating chips."


[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060412/wl_nm/iraq_leisure_dc[/url][/QUOTE]

I thought the purpose of invading Iraq was to make it safe. Oops. In other news Australia is about to sell its uranium mines to... China!!! China claims it will use the uranium for "peaceful purposes". I remember the US sold Japan a shitload of steel during the World's Fair. Does anyone remember this scenario?

[blue]Greetings everyone,

In recognition of his many great contributions to the Forum, I have given DirkDingy his own thread titled "DirkDingy's Opinions".

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2429[/url]

Those of you who wish to join him in the discussions in his new thread are welcome to do so.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]DD:

The quote is from Groucho Marx

"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasnt it."

"Women should be obscene and not heard."

"Go, and never darken my towels again."[/QUOTE]Stuck-up hi-society woman: "Well! I've never been so insulted!"
Groucho (looking at his watch): "It's still early yet."

Groucho to a hefty rich woman he's romancing: "I imagine our being married. You're in the kitchen cooking dinner. You're bending over the stove. I can't see the stove."

Groucho in real life when asked why he continues to hang out so much in public with his ex-wife: "I like to stay close to my money."

GM reflecting to the camera on two women he's pretending to pursue (he's actually mocking and toying with them): "How happy I'd be with either of these two, if they'd both just go away."

There's something that I've noticed recently. A lot of girls like to walk along with their arms folded together in front of them. You don't see kids walking like that. You don't see old women walking like that. You NEVER see men walking like that. I haven't seen girls in other countries walking that way. Mostly it seems like girls from their early teens up to their thirties.

What's up with this walk anyways? Body language is supposed to indicate one's state of mind so it must mean something. Are they hugging themselves? Are they trying to protect themselves from the entire outside world? I can tell you one thing, when I see a girl walking like that.... it makes her look so insecure and so fucked up.

Has anybody else noticed this too? If anyone has an explanation of what this is, I'd like to hear it.

Rock

#1] The New Year's Eve hog had one too many shots of Jack Daniels. I mean C'MON! What broad in her right fucking MIND is gonna think ANY modeling agency that caters to the mainstream public is gonna want to plaster a photo of the equivalent of Rosie O' Donnell on their pages with the intent to sell product through her?

#2] The rude coffehouse blob was probably compensating for lack of meaningful male company or trying to do what her more attractive counterparts do: act rude and see how much they can get away with it in an effort to see if you were going to fall all over yourself to try to win her favor.

Myself, I don't sweat AW these days. In fact, whenever I'm making delieveries or whenever I go out for a bite to eat, even the ones who are trying to get my attention are baffled by my professional demeanor, my short straight-to-the-point answers and the fact that I don't take the bait.

The beefette at the coffee shop was just following standard procedures.It seems like fugly women who hang out with cute friends are even worse because they always lurk in the shadows of their friends success.
Another thing I've noticed about the "less qualified" is they are twice as hard to get along with because guys think they get no play so all the weirdos go for her.It's all heady oriented BS.Also remember if your a girl with even just an attractive toe you have horny guys all over you.I'm so disappointed with all of it.
SINJU: Intresting experiment....Since I've found cheap pussy abroad I too brush off the flirts and handle myself like a dignified ISG member and it makes women really pissed off..they are so needy for attention.The way I deal these days is ask myself what I would pay someplace else for a slab of the same meat then respect it accordingly....putting all sex aside you get to really see what's left.Remember many amercians cant or dont travel so women dont really understand whats available to men in other countries.
I have two single women on my floor of my apartment building who give me the look of death everytime they see me just because I'm single.I've made the effort many times to say hello and be polite but it doesn't work.Women get too much credit for nothing.

For me, the last straw was when I fell for a woman I thought was THE ONE. I made the (STUPID) mistake of coming on too strong, BUT I noticed that after I broke off my pursuit, NEVER ONCE during my courting attempts did she come out and tell me never to see her again. I thought about this a lot and came to the conclusion that, like many of her counterparts, she likes male attention, no matter WHERE it comes from. Although she never directly directly yanked my chain, she played it cool and was perfectly willing to let me direct my attention toward her, making a fool out of myself, affirming her attractiveness as a woman. It was THIS revelation that made me understand just how fucked up a lot of AW's are. To give an example of how she kept me on a chain of my own making, I came out one night and showed my cards, telling her how I felt about her. She said: "I'll ALWAYS be your friend". Looking back on it, she was a master of manipulating the situation. I don't harbor any illl feeling toward her though. I made a fool of MYSELF, and the blame lies with the image I see in the mirror everyday.

SM:

"I made the (STUPID) mistake of coming on too strong"
"I thought about this a lot and came to the conclusion that, like many of her counterparts, she likes male attention, no matter WHERE it comes from."

Thats a mistake we have all made and it hurts. I honestly believe that I screwed up some relationships that had good potential simply because I was so sure early on that it could be something good, that I drowned her in attention and affection. This will scare away or disinterest a lot of women.

Its hard to hold back when you want to tell her all those sweet things and dote on her with attention, but it can backfire.

And yeah, many girls love male attention, but they often respect or want the guys more that AREN'T throwing all the compliments, presents etc. at them.

As if subconsciously she is thinking "if he wants ME so much, then he cant be that great..."

I hope you don't think I'm a one-man Doc Skank admiration society, but you've hit the nail on the head again! In fact, to emphasize one of your comments, I remember a female caller on the Tom Leykis show (B9K, I can't believe you've JUST RECENTLY discovered him! LOL) who said that she'd be more apt to go after a guy who DIDN'T have time for her or at least ACTED that way. When I heard that, I said: "HUH"????? I felt like I was in the Bizarro Universe where everything is BACKWARD!

[QUOTE=DirkDingy]are you german? many of my best mates are bavarians; a combination of logic, efficiency, and moral decadence that I can identify with.[/QUOTE]Dutch, but due to nature of the Dutch-German border through last decades, Germany has never been foreign to me. Besides thanks for letting us know that the myth about German efficiency is so well cultivated across the pond.
[b]Rock Dog[/b], given you are American, your guess was clever.

No idea who actually was first with Oprah-like talkshows but nowdays there is plently of them. Personally, I find Oprah's intense passion for goodness somewhat annoying, but it might also be the moments when cameras zoom faces in the audience. Not sure if those people get paid or are pre-programmed to sit there with face expressions looking either like melting maple syrup or totally shocked, grasping for air. To me this is absolutely ridiculous and undermines Oprah's credibility. On the other hand, this silly pseudo dramatic acting is rather standard in every American preacher styled talkshow, let it be Ricky Lake, Jerry Springer or Dr.Phil. It's perfectly fine helping people out but skip the sweet talk and hypocrisy.

Women emancipation is a result of increased equality between sexes, not a result of TV talkshows or the so called "Americanization". I think most will agree that women have lived in sort of captivity before, and during last decades single mothers have become accepted by society, so have unmarried women who decided not to have children. This has worried certain category of men for last decades, so what? When it suits us (you?) we brag about democratic values in the West and simultaneously condemn cultures where women are oppressed, like for example in Mideast or south Asia. Suddently when we don't find anyone to lecture about superiority of western values, we are bitching about AW.

Speaking to Muslims, they paradoxically claim Muslim women enjoy more freedom than western women. How come?

[i]"Our women don't have to work, as we provide for them?"[/i], they say. Try this at home, or [url=http://www.womenrussia.com/austwives.htm]this[/url].

Don't interpret my little input as defence of AW, but rather as reaction on logical inconsistency from your side.

[b]DirkDingy[/b], no stars are added to the EU flag anymore. Google says:
[i]"The flag of the European Union depicts 12 golden stars arranged in a circle on an azure blue sky. The five-pointed stars represent the union of the people of Europe; the number 12 represents perfection and unity. The height of the flag is two-thirds the width. This flag was officially adopted as a symbol of the European Union on May 26, 1986."[/i]

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]There's something that I've noticed recently. A lot of girls like to walk along with their arms folded together in front of them. You don't see kids walking like that. You don't see old women walking like that. You NEVER see men walking like that. I haven't seen girls in other countries walking that way. Mostly it seems like girls from their early teens up to their thirties.

What's up with this walk anyways? Body language is supposed to indicate one's state of mind so it must mean something. Are they hugging themselves? Are they trying to protect themselves from the entire outside world? I can tell you one thing, when I see a girl walking like that.... it makes her look so insecure and so fucked up.

Has anybody else noticed this too? If anyone has an explanation of what this is, I'd like to hear it.

Rock[/QUOTE]


Rock,

This is a very astute observation. I've also seen this behavior, although I cannot place it...maybe when I was working downtown Chicago, or on a college campus. Where I live, there isn't much A to B that can be obtained by walking. It seems that girls only do this when they are by themselves, I don't recall ever seeing one in a pair or a group doing so.

I read Don Steel's body language book. While this behavior is not expressly mentioned, I would be inclined to say (given Steel's analysis of other behavior) that the girl is either subliminally protecting herself from the world, or holding something in.....possilbly a combination of both-notice that the arms are generally held more or less across the breasts.

Sin-Leykis has only been on in my market for a couple months...I happened across him by accident on my local talk radio station....It just happened that I tuned into him as he was on "ditch the bit*h", and "only marry foreign women".

By the way, I think that my last straw was getting burned by a desperation induced "fix up project" a couple years ago. I was going to clean up some (young, not bad looking) trailer trash, and see if I could make a respectable human being out of her...she soaked me for a little cash (2-3 fast food meals, and a little grocery shopping trip), before I inadvertanly dropped by her apartment where she proceeded to almost bone a scumbag right in front of me. I wasn't a happy camper. I hope to run into that little bim someday so I can laugh at her....she was starting to get fat at 20, and I'm sure that white trash behavior patterns have resulted in her life going even further into deep shit.....conversely these days, I have girls in in Prague that are more than she was, or will ever be.

B9K

PS Marak, these days the divorce rate is 60%.

your radio market WAS unenlightened, but has seen the light. CONVERSELY, MY market seems to have undertaken the philosophy of IGNORANCE by no longer carrying Lord Tom. Your trailer trash project seems to be on the path to implosion. I think if you simply let her do what she does, yer gonna see her resemble a Jerry Springer candidate VERY SOON.

[url]http://www.edge1550.com/stream.html[/url]

yea, that chick was far enough down the food chain that her peer group was having a hard time reaching their early mid twenties (od's, accidents, probably violent crime also-she had been to more funerals at 20 than i at 32....and mine are all elderly relatives). just a tiny bit of intelligent pussy usage and she could have been living in my big townhouse, probably starting college....but that type isn't known for making good decisions.....you know, something funny just occurred to me...i (seriously) can't remember her name anymore......i think it started with "j"....my memory banks must be full remembering marketta, natasha, anna, martina......,

b9k

[QUOTE=Leeuwen]

Women emancipation is a result of increased equality between sexes, not a result of TV talkshows or the so called "Americanization". I think most will agree that women have lived in sort of captivity before, and during last decades single mothers have become accepted by society, so have unmarried women who decided not to have children. This has worried certain category of men for last decades, so what? When it suits us (you?) we brag about democratic values in the West and simultaneously condemn cultures where women are oppressed, like for example in Mideast or south Asia. Suddently when we don't find anyone to lecture about superiority of western values, we are bitching about AW.

Don't interpret my little input as defence of AW, but rather as reaction on logical inconsistency from your side.
[/i][/QUOTE]

Leeuwen.

"The previous arrangement" (men ruled and bore the brunt of harsh reality, women deferred and were provided for) may have been somewhat stifling to women, but at least it was BALANCED (as the women of russia article alludes to). Yes, many women were "relegated" to being homemakers....on the other hand, how many men do you think worked 40 years at a shitty job that they hate to provide for their wife and children? Do you think that they felt a little stifled also? Possibly they gave up on a dream or two, just like the women did?

I absolutely believe that a woman should be able to do anything that she chooses to do....however, the ability to make decisions is POWER. One of the "laws of the universe" is that power is correlated to responsibility. Now, US women have power......but an unbalance exists because our society is absolutely, completely geared towards protecting them from the consequences of bad decisions. This is not TRUE equality.

An interesting side note: Someone, a few posts back, mentioned (possibly not by name) the book "Self Made Man" by Norah Vincent, a lesbian who posed as a man to discover what life is like on the other side of the fence. She SHOCKINGLY discovered how disempowered she became by (temporarily) giving up her status as an "opressed double minority" (female and gay). If I were feeling more motivated, I would go get her exact quote on the subject.

B9k

PS The media absolutely is a corruptive influence. There is a constant message of "men are stupid", and encouragement for women to take ADVANTAGE of their societal privleges. Oprah is a particularly nasty offender, having made over a billiion dollars convincing the most privledged creatures on the planet (US women as a whole, having generally some of he most comfortable lifestyles on the PLANET while generally doing he least to earn it) that they are poor, opressed, and entitled to MORE.

The book "Self Made Man" is actually a real interesting read. In the book a lesbian dresses up like a man and undergoes life as "Ned." Alot of experiences she has are exactly the same as what we have been posting about or pertain to them. She observes that; when guys first meet they treat each other as good guys until proven otherwise, whereas women have you judged as a cad right off the bat until proven otherwise, Men face alot of rejection everyday at the hands of women, women are extremely judgemental and look for any reason to prove to themselves that the man is not worthy, females play games and word semantics, females blame men for all their problems, and college taught her to be overly feminist and very suspicious of males.

Maybe she can do a sequel and go to different countries where she can experience the differences between AW's and foreign woman. Am quite sure it will be not the same as the first book. When they made American woman they definitely threw away the mold.

Overall the book is very good and I just might buy "Self Made Man" instead of reading it in Borders bookstore for free.

Very interesting....

It doesn't suprise me one bit and that is just what we have been dealing with. Your right they threw away the mold of American women, thank gawd we don't any more of them than there already are.


[QUOTE=Mike12]The book "Self Made Man" is actually a real interesting read. In the book a lesbian dresses up like a man and undergoes life as "Ned." Alot of experiences she has are exactly the same as what we have been posting about or pertain to them. She observes that; when guys first meet they treat each other as good guys until proven otherwise, whereas women have you judged as a cad right off the bat until proven otherwise, Men face alot of rejection everyday at the hands of women, women are extremely judgemental and look for any reason to prove to themselves that the man is not worthy, females play games and word semantics, females blame men for all their problems, and college taught her to be overly feminist and very suspicious of males.

Maybe she can do a sequel and go to different countries where she can experience the differences between AW's and foreign woman. Am quite sure it will be not the same as the first book. When they made American woman they definitely threw away the mold.

Overall the book is very good and I just might buy "Self Made Man" instead of reading it in Borders bookstore for free.[/QUOTE]

[quote=cbgbconnisur]i was reading about a us expat living in the canary islands and how globalization is spreading a more affluent lifestyle to places few would suspect, with this expect women around the world to become more "americanized", .[/quote]forgive me isg gods for i have sinned. i promise not to to write bad things about france, frenchmen, and arabs any more when totally pissed.

gbgb: how confident are you that wealth and americanization are positively correlated? i think that mtv and opera do more americanizing than bill gates will ever do. yes, wealth expands the menu, but there are some things that many of us would simply choose not to order. many women find feminism silly.

i recently had an epiphany: foreign women will often try to act american when dating an american. this phonomenom is especially atrocious because these women develop their opinions about america from television and third hand embellished scuttlebutt from pals abroad who want to appear more affluent than they actually are to impress their friends. however, these women's impressions are preferable to the maestros of american culture who achieved their infinite knowledge about the “states” from a two week trip to new york city 10 years ago when they were 11.

two things happened two me recently which has caused me to believe this. a few days ago i brought home a girl from the 'club (disco) and she decided that she just wanted to cuddle. when i expressed my desires for a little head she refused. when i asked her why she came home with me if she didn’t want to give me some action she replied, "because in america the girl doesn’t have to have sex with the man until she wants to." i piped, "so if i was moldovan?" she replied, “oh no, i would never go home with a strange moldovan man at nite because he would expect [read take] sex." (in the vast majority of the world when a woman goes to a man's home alone--especially from a disco--he has the right to fuck her. [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in ee means grabbing a gal off the street and beating her into submission...the guy can still get off is she was walking alone past 2400 dressed kinda skanky.) what was i to do with the 18 yo child? i rolled over and went to sleep.

two, my girlfriend has violated some unwritten rules in eastern europe: as long as the man takes care of her needs and is not too overt he can get side action & the woman takes care of all of the domestic responsibilities. most girls here don't care or don't really object to "one-nite relationships" with other women. i was hanging out with some strippers a few nights ago and gf called and figured out where i was and told me that if she "were an american girl i wouldn't treat her this way." later, when i noticed that my dishes were not washed i asked her if something was wrong? she replied," in america the relationship is like a partnership, not the man the chief and the woman just cook and clean all day."

other shit has happened as well.

i am convinced that foreign women, especially young ones, will often try and co-opt american behaviors when they are with an american.

[quote=dirkdingy]in the vast majority of the world when a woman goes to a man's home alone--especially from a disco--he has the right to fuck her. [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in ee means grabbing a gal off the street and beating her into submission...the guy can still get off is she was walking alone past 2400 dressed kinda skanky.[/quote]with this attitude, no wonder you have to travel thousands of kilometers to find women willing to spend time in your companionship. if i quoted you to women i know, they would probably guess you were taliban. no, actually you no right to fuck her unless she doesn't mind.

very often when women get raped their dress code is questioned, which i find extremely bizarre. like as if we men are in posession of a license to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] whenever we see a hottie wearing mini-skirt after 24:00. what if you join some blokes you meet in a bar and join them for poker game and beer. imagine a jury questioning your dress code after these dudes had gang raped you. would you blame four homosexuals for expecting you to play along? i doubt any sensible person would like to live in such world.

[quote=]i am convinced that foreign women, especially young ones, will often try and co-opt american behaviors when they are with an american.[/quote]when i catch taxi to schiphol (amsterdam airport) i expect it to be of decent brand. when i land in kiev, ukraine, i don't expect latest model from mercedes or audi to bring me to the hotel. the moldovian girls you refer to use the same analogy. you should be flattered they have high expectations about you, haha.

That is some scary shit. Interesting too. It seems that just as Western men have BS preconceptions about Eastern European women, the reverse is also the case. I read somewhere that the marriage agencies were perpetuating the perception that western men were all big pussies, easily controlled. I have to say though that even with 24 hour Oprah, MTV etc, it will never be half as bad as in the US for a couple of reasons:

1. Legal prostitution makes the sexual favor of a woman easily and inexpensively obtainable. This puts a very distinct limit on how much shit men will endure from women to get sex. On a bullshit scale of 1-10,, in my estimation, EE's may go from a 0 to a 3 or 3.5, whereas in the US, women are at an 11.

2. Puritanism-US has it...Europe, not so much. European's it seems view sex as a GOOD thing, whereas AW, in many cases view it as a chore that is necessary to get and keep a man. This isn't to say that they won't ever learn to use sex as a weapon, but again, see number 1.

B9K

SM:

"who said that she'd be more apt to go after a guy who DIDN'T have time for her or at least ACTED that way. When I heard that, I said: "HUH"????? I felt like I was in the Bizarro Universe where everything is BACKWARD!"

A lot of things are backwards in male-female relationships. Ultimately I prefer my own happy naivety to being callous or overly cynical, but over the years I have figured out that many (maybe even most) women are quite shallow in what they look for in men and that "being a nice guy" is a personality feature that one should apply with due caution, as for many women nice guys do finish last.

I think it is very important that when being nice (some of us just cant help it) you remain strong. It is equally important in my opinion that when being strong you avoid being brutish and flat-headed... application of affection, romance or sensibility can work wonders, but are to be applied with care and in doses just large enough to keep her interested or as the Pussycat Dolls say, "keep it frilly".

leewuan…please differentiate between description and advocation; i simply, albeit crudely, described the prosecutorial standards which are used in many parts of the world regarding sexual assault. i.e., slapping a woman on the buttocks—even playfully—can be, and has been, prosecuted as fourth degree sexual assault in the u.s. and can result in a two year prison sentence—as well as the destruction of one’s future career prospects. i have not partaken in and do not advocate taking a woman against her will. my sexuality was actually questioned while studying in poland for not closing the deal on a few women i brought home after a night of carousing. in america, especially in the hypersensitive feminist environs that have engulfed college campuses “no” means no, “maybe” means no, and silence means no. mike tyson, kobe, and the lads at duke would have never been charged with sexual assault in the vast majority of the world’s nations.

frankly, in america, the prospect of an unsubstantiated accusation combined with the opproious legal system makes me very weary of fucking women that i do not know. the 9th circuit has ruled that a woman can give consent, then retract said consent during the act—even non-verbally—and the man can still be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. so: you can be fucking a chick, she suddenly changes her mind but forgets to tell you about it, or the booze starts to kick in, and you be doing 20 to life in folsom a few months later.

most people can’t see how guys like mike tyson are convicted when the woman went to his hotel room at 2 am. what the fuck is any woman going to discuss with mike alone in his room in the wee hours of the night after sipping on a little liquor? what the fuck would anyone discuss with mike period? i’ll reiterate what i said earlier: when a woman goes home with a strange man in the wee hours of the am after drinking some form of intimacy is expected. i would tell my daughter to not go home with men from clubs or discos.

bart: actually, as you well know, ee women are prettier on average (when younger), are sexier, have better attitudes, lack puritanical hang-ups about sex, are more domestic, and are more easier satisfied than their yankee counterpart...most stereotypes about ee women are kinda true. i don’t mind cooking or even cleaning but when the women here forbid you to do it—it is unmanly in their eyes—you start expecting certain things.

yes, the ability to readily get sex in ee (even if illegal) weakens the women’s position; however, it also decreases compromise and interpersonal skills—essential skills for any relationship. honestly, after spending some time abroad i don’t think that one can normally function in america or date an aw again.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] but over the years I have figured out that many (maybe even most) women are quite shallow in what they look for in men and that "being a nice guy" is a personality feature that one should apply with due caution, as for many women nice guys do finish last.[/QUOTE]

Dr. S.,

Your statement is true only in the US and other Western countries such as Canada or England. It is definitely NOT true in Colombia, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, etc. Most Latin women get their fill of super macho Latin men as they grow up. When they hit adulthood and are looking for a serious mate, they mostly want nice guys. Some still want the womanizing macho man, but most want nice, stable, reliable guys they can start and raise a family with.

[quote=dirkdingy]leewuan…please differentiate between description and advocation; i simply, albeit crudely, described the prosecutorial standards which are used in many parts of the world regarding sexual assault. i.e., slapping a woman on the buttocks—even playfully—can be, and has been, prosecuted as fourth degree sexual assault in the u.s. and can result in a two year prison sentence—as well as the destruction of one’s future career prospects. i have not partaken in and do not advocate taking a woman against her will. my sexuality was actually questioned while studying in poland for not closing the deal on a few women i brought home after a night of carousing. in america, especially in the hypersensitive feminist environs that have engulfed college campuses “no” means no, “maybe” means no, and silence means no. mike tyson, kobe, and the lads at duke would have never been charged with sexual assault in the vast majority of the world’s nations.

frankly, in america, the prospect of an unsubstantiated accusation combined with the opproious legal system makes me very weary of fucking women that i do not know. the 9th circuit has ruled that a woman can give consent, then retract said consent during the act—even non-verbally—and the man can still be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. so: you can be fucking a chick, she suddenly changes her mind but forgets to tell you about it, or the booze starts to kick in, and you be doing 20 to life in folsom a few months later.

most people can’t see how guys like mike tyson are convicted when the woman went to his hotel room at 2 am. what the fuck is any woman going to discuss with mike alone in his room in the wee hours of the night after sipping on a little liquor? what the fuck would anyone discuss with mike period? i’ll reiterate what i said earlier: when a woman goes home with a strange man in the wee hours of the am after drinking some form of intimacy is expected. i would tell my daughter to not go home with men from clubs or discos.

bart: actually, as you well know, ee women are prettier on average (when younger), are sexier, have better attitudes, lack puritanical hang-ups about sex, are more domestic, and are more easier satisfied than their yankee counterpart...most stereotypes about ee women are kinda true. i don’t mind cooking or even cleaning but when the women here forbid you to do it—it is unmanly in their eyes—you start expecting certain things.

yes, the ability to readily get sex in ee (even if illegal) weakens the women’s position; however, it also decreases compromise and interpersonal skills—essential skills for any relationship. honestly, after spending some time abroad i don’t think that one can normally function in america or date an aw again.[/quote]

i agree with most of what you're saying but guys like kobe and mike tyson should know better.these women who follow them are interested in their lifestyles ,money and whatever else they have learned about them.additionally, as black men they know with the air of sexual stereotypes a blame the victim defense will mean disaster.who has more credibility mike tyson or a 19yr sunday school teacher? he got what he deserved;kobe too.

in the nba , the high profile stars michael jordan etc. pay for their sex with "upscale"escorts this affords them greater protection since it's a business proposition. of course, there are exceptions it's a known fact that shaquille o'neal fucked cindy crawford.

lastly, i believe the 9th circuits' reasoning was that one could consent to letting someone into their home so why couldn't they withdraw that consent? and, saying no to more sex isn't unreasonable.

[quote=dirkdingy]most people can’t see how guys like mike tyson are convicted when the woman went to his hotel room at 2 am. what the fuck is any woman going to discuss with mike alone in his room in the wee hours of the night after sipping on a little liquor?[/quote]short addition to your description of the u.s legal system. characters like mike tyson aren't relevant in this case as neither of us is a celebrity with deep pockets, and average joe isn't given special treatment in court of law. women who visit famous sportsmen in their hotel rooms in the wee hours, as you described, are generally gold diggers. i was talking about average women whose dress code is qestioned in the court, despite focus should stay on the raper. then the defence lawyer will always attempt to discredit the complainant due to her less than prudent sexual behaviour. what the heck - so it's ok to gang [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] sex workers but not women with victorian values? given aw realize this, i'm not surprised they are superficially restrictive with sex. nonetheless, vast majority of aw in the range 18-35 year are sluts, ready to fuck any guy with good future prospects and willing to spend money on his darling. perhaps i will write about my obseravations some other time.

My post on a movie and TV board:

"Well.....appearently, I have wandered into a HERD of 400 pound lesbians as chick logic (the great oxymoron) and man bashing are the rules of the day.

That being the case, I will step aside and gladly defer to your stunning, enlightened all knowing brilliance.

By the way, as I well know that your type cannot handle the harsh shock of reality , I am fairly confident that someone will cry to the moderator and this post will be removed."

[QUOTE=George90]Dr. S.,

Your statement is true only in the US and other Western countries such as Canada or England. It is definitely NOT true in Colombia, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, etc. Most Latin women get their fill of super macho Latin men as they grow up. When they hit adulthood and are looking for a serious mate, they mostly want nice guys. Some still want the womanizing macho man, but most want nice, stable, reliable guys they can start and raise a family with.[/QUOTE]
According to conventional wisdom it's probably not wise to make sweeping generalizations like this,

[b][i]HOWEVER...[/i][/b]

Your statement does pretty much describe my experience with Latinas thus far (I lived in Mexico for nearly 5 years). They certainly do have a markedly different (and refreshing) attitude when comared with AW's, so I can't dismiss your statement, either.

[quote=leeuwen]short addition to your description of the u.s legal system. characters like mike tyson aren't relevant in this case as neither of us is a celebrity with deep pockets, and average joe isn't given special treatment in court of law. women who visit famous sportsmen in their hotel rooms in the wee hours, as you described, are generally gold diggers. i was talking about average women whose dress code is qestioned in the court, despite focus should stay on the raper. then the defence lawyer will always attempt to discredit the complainant due to her less than prudent sexual behaviour. what the heck - so it's ok to gang [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] sex workers but not women with victorian values? given aw realize this, i'm not surprised they are superficially restrictive with sex. nonetheless, vast majority of aw in the range 18-35 year are sluts, ready to fuck any guy with good future prospects and willing to spend money on his darling. perhaps i will write about my obseravations some other time.[/quote]the only pepole that can get away with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] are the kennedys.

George90:

Thanks for your comments. Admittedly (and sadly) my experience with Latina women is limited to a few girls I banged back in college and some pros in German FKKs or the RLD in Amsterdam, so I certainly can't relate to what you are saying. It does sound encouraging though.... :)

Of course when we post here we are generalizing, out of necessity. Nobody wants to read the sordid details of everybody else's fucked up relationships. There are self-help groups for that or other self-help methods, like Jack Daniel's or sectarian religion. :)

I'm basing my observations on generalized experiences with Anglo women, Euro women and EE (Slavic) women.

I am also generally refering to young women in the 18-25 dating age and probably in the age before they are seriously (or desperately) seeking a husband. As women get older, their tastes do change and they generally look for security ($$$) and in optimal cases, emotional and societal compatibility.

Nonetheless, I stand by my theory based on my experience that over-doting or drowning a girl with attention in the early stages of a relationship will scare away or turn off many girls, and this is not necessarily limited to only American or Anglo women.

Nor am I saying that flat-headed super-machismo is the ticket to success, I doubt that works really that well anywhere.

I am just saying that being a nice guy and doing all the right things might be the wrong thing with many women. At least in my experience, I've often done best when behaving like a womanizing jerk. A jerk with a heart of gold, but a jerk nonetheless. It somehow intrigues many women, including oddly enough, some truly top girls.

I agree that latin women do really appreciate a "nice guy" ofcourse not too nice but someone that would give her respect or courtesy where a latin male wouldn't.Although I'm beginning to think latin men treating women as less than can only benefit guys like me.Without the macho jive...what would they really want.
I'm glad the topic of being a nice guy came up and as sombody stated earlier it's totally ass backwards.I've never figured that one out. Either I'm too nice (which happens most of the time) or I'm an asshole.I have no idea how to be a nice asshole. I've never admired that character in any man nor did I want to turn into one of those just to get laid.Can anyone shed some light or is this nonsensical babble drama from the world of "her" ?

Do a google search on "Nice Guy", or "Nice Guy Syndrome".

I kind of hold a double standard with AW about this.

I get that EE's NEED their men to be harsh, rough, tough, and kind of mean-kind of an overbearing jerk-philandering probably just comes with the package.. They live in a harsh, rough, tough part of the world, where it may actually become necessary to physically defend her and her children.

I don't know too much about Latinas and Latin American, so I won't comment there.

Conversely, I am disgusted with this need in AW. Our culture (female driven) pushes men into being feminized pussies ("Sit nicely and comply little Johhny or I will flunk you out of school"........and all of our mother's tried to make us into "gentlemen" who would bend over backwards to give a woman anything she wants), but then our women reject us for being what they want us to be.

I realize that this is a highly mysoginistic statement, but given this sort of thing, I'm inclined to believe that in most cases (there are exceptions), a mis-wired female brain shouldn't be put in charge of any decision more important than "Bounce or Downy".

B9K

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060419/ap_on_re_us/sexual_satisfaction[/url]

Well, this article is half right. There is more equality in Europe and in Austria than any other continent for men and women. Japan and Latin America is male dominated and controlled so Japanese women grudgingly have sex with their local men but then have more satisfying sex with us American men that TREAT them like equals. What I don't agree with is the US having satisfying sex according to this article.

I think it is like Japan or Latin America only the OPPOSITE!!! Women are dominant and it is the MEN that grudgingly have sex with these behemoths!! One thing this article got right is that inequality DOES cause less satisfying sex lives in the couples and that is very true in the US or Canada which are female dominated. Also inequality causes less healthy dominant partners because the dominant sex thinks he in Latin America or Japan or she in the US doesn't have to work out to get any. The equal countries such as Europe do work out to attract each other and therefore leads more sexually satisfying lives.

darkseid,

that was a good observation on your part regarding the dominant partner feeling like they don't have to work out in order to get laid.

i see it all the time.... young girls with fat little dough-bellies that see no need to go to the gym. women of all ages with big fat out-of-shape asses that try to lose some weight, not to attract a guy, but so that they can try out some new fashion.

i also see guys who are (as far as i can tell) in fairly good shape, and they're walking along with these chubby little fem-blobs. i guess if you've got the p*ssy supply under 100% control, the guys haven't got any other choice.

there are a few girls out there who do have nice hard bodies. but, if you eliminate the ones who are ****, crazy, lesbian or man-haters, you're left with a fraction of a percent of the female population. these chosen few have a 200 to one ratio of interested guys vs. attractive girls. they can take their pick of whatever guy they like.

the really sad thing is, it's getting so that the smaller, less homely fem-blobs have better choices available than an average guy.

rock

[quote=dirkdingy]

frankly, in america, the prospect of an unsubstantiated accusation combined with the opproious legal system makes me very weary of fucking women that i do not know. the 9th circuit has ruled that a woman can give consent, then retract said consent during the act—even non-verbally—and the man can still be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. so: you can be fucking a chick, she suddenly changes her mind but forgets to tell you about it, or the booze starts to kick in, and you be doing 20 to life in folsom a few months later.

most people can’t see how guys like mike tyson are convicted when the woman went to his hotel room at 2 am. what the fuck is any woman going to discuss with mike alone in his room in the wee hours of the night after sipping on a little liquor? what the fuck would anyone discuss with mike period? i’ll reiterate what i said earlier: when a woman goes home with a strange man in the wee hours of the am after drinking some form of intimacy is expected. i would tell my daughter to not go home with men from clubs or discos.
[/quote]

very true, the legal system with regards to male suspect, female accuser is usually male is guilty until proven innocent. in other news, i would strongly advise the men on this board to avoid anglophone countries for play. a lot of the oprah shit has made its way down under, go to southeast asia, south america, eastern europe, hell i even heard some middle eastern places are better places to meet women. anyhow i am headed to penang and bangkok.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]....hell I even heard some Middle Eastern places are better places to meet women.QUOTE]

Actually, the best place I've ever been to to meet upscale, beautiful, and quality women is... Qatar... of all places. There are 3,000 international flight attendants based there and a dearth of availiable suitors. It's an ideal location to meet well-bred women from 2nd world nations. Most of them don't date arabs and the 40,000 soliders there are confined to base; the defense contractors that can leave the base don't dont know how to date such women so if you're good looking, appear refined, and fun, you can easily clean up once "you're in." it was there that I realized that the most beautiful women in the world are arab. I dated this Iraqi woman there that was nothing less than a 9.5 before I got drunk and said something stupid and she abrubtly dumped me.:(

Appearently when you bring in a foreign national as a wife or whatever, you have to sign a paper with the feds promisng to pay for any social assistance benefits that the foreign national receives, up to $16,000 a year. Ouch! Like things weren't bad enough with Americanization, etc.

Maybe the "sailor marriage" (keep her at home, your vacations there, and hers in US) proposed a few times here on the board might not be such a bad idea....

B9K

That law’s on the books but not enforced too much. I’ve actually seen it used more when the woman claims abuse and wants to get out of the marriage before she has permanent status.

“Sailor marriages” can work well with older women or unambitious and stupid young girls. Older women will be not enthused at the prospect of starting over and leaving their ever so important existent social structure behind. They will also enjoy their new found wealth in their native land. I know a few Israeli guys that have Moldovan wives ½ their age that they keep in Moldova. The girls are dumb as shit—no education past the 7th grade—or former sex workers, but everyone seems to be happy. You should bear in mind that when you leave she will be fucking someone else.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Nonetheless, I stand by my theory based on my experience that over-doting or drowning a girl with attention in the early stages of a relationship will scare away or turn off many girls, and this is not necessarily limited to only American or Anglo women. [/QUOTE]

Guys,

Do not confuse being a "nice guy" with being a door mat or a puppy dog! That is NOT at all what I mean by a "nice guy". By "nice guy" I mean a man who reciprocates the good things his woman gives him. Who is respectful towards her and treats her with dignity.

None of that implies that nice guy gives his woman anything she wants whenever she wants. It doesn't mean she makes all, or even some, of the decisions in the relationship. A nice guy listens to his woman so she has input into things, BUT he has the final say. He provides the guidance and direction for the relationship. Providing that guidance doesn't need to be harsh or brutal, it only needs to be firm.

I have found AW's to be completely schizo on this point. On the one hand, they create an environment where a man can barely wipe his own ass without some investigative committee getting in on the act to make sure he is not being sexual, sexist, or something. On the other hand, they complain that men are no longer "men". We don't make the first move anymore. We aren't chivalrous anymore. We don't as much ambition and drive anymore. Etc. etc. etc.

[QUOTE=George90]
I have found AW's to be completely schizo on this point. On the one hand, they create an environment where a man can barely wipe his own ass without some investigative committee getting in on the act to make sure he is not being sexual, sexist, or something. On the other hand, they complain that men are no longer "men". We don't make the first move anymore. We aren't chivalrous anymore. We don't as much ambition and drive anymore. Etc. etc. etc.[/QUOTE]

Is it any wonder that many times you can hear AW's lamenting that they don't know what they want? "THE ONE" told me that she didn't know what she wanted after I laid out my cards. That's a big reason why I hate indecisive women. I'm not gonna waste my precious time hanging around waiting for them to make up their minds while I can be enjoying Life with one who CAN.

It is good to hear that they don't bother with it too often. Just out of curiosity, what is your information source if you can reveal it without difficulty?

I didn't REALLY want to do the "sailor marriage", but found it preferable to potentially again putting a woman in a position to ruin your life (on the other hand, you are definitely buying the cow, without getting the milk......setup is basically useless unless you want to have some kids). Most certainly the most pious and faithful of women would be prone to cheat seeing you only 6-8 weeks a year.

An interesting thought.....I personally would like to be living in Europe right now (I'm aiming for age 40, 5 years off), and the biggest potential impediment is the EU work visa. Several parts of the former Eastern Bloc are EU member states, including the Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, and probably eventually Ukraine....one could marry a girl from one of those places, and have a "ticket" to work anywhere in the EU, such as Amsterdam, Berlin, Barcelona etc....

Just a thought,

B9K


[QUOTE=DirkDingy]That law’s on the books but not enforced too much. I’ve actually seen it used more when the woman claims abuse and wants to get out of the marriage before she has permanent status.

“Sailor marriages” can work well with older women or unambitious and stupid young girls. Older women will be not enthused at the prospect of starting over and leaving their ever so important existent social structure behind. They will also enjoy their new found wealth in their native land. I know a few Israeli guys that have Moldovan wives ½ their age that they keep in Moldova. The girls are dumb as shit—no education past the 7th grade—or former sex workers, but everyone seems to be happy. You should bear in mind that when you leave she will be fucking someone else.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Marak5]Also my friend just tipped me off to this new england journal of medicine article, and it said like 33% of american women have no sexual desire, and another 17% don't even enjoy sex. The divorce rate here is 50%.

So you have to ask yourself, what are you even working for? Once you do finally hold the attention of an aw, there's a 50% chance that you look forward to a sexless marriage, if your marriage even lasts at all

All these aw's act like their pussies are gold mines, but they don't deliver. Once you get past the facade, there's nothing there.

In my opinion aw's are in a constant state of the cat chasing the string. They want the bigger, better deal at all times, but in the end nothing really makes them happy.[/QUOTE]

The guys who still have a choice if they marry: Don't forget, the world goes global. Discount airlines grow taking you everywhere you want for a reasonable fare. Let the AW's how they want to be - untouched - and follow your desires using global opportunity.

Believe me you can find well educated women in that globe (you should be well educated as well) - not from the pro scene - who also enjoy thier pussy treated well and also enjoy to give you return for that. And the maintanance cost are not higher (rather lower) then with AW's and doubtable return.

I strongly believe, if the aw's behave is consequently ignored and foreign are women preferred, the attitute will change over time (but it certainly will take some time).

regards

Brain666

i find it all amusing:

the result should be binary. either a bimbo (or maybe two with her friend-not that familiar with the details), is going to get very publicly outed for crying wolf about [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] or.....

a bunch of spoiled overprivleged college athletes get skullfucked out on a rail.

i'm pretty much ok with either scenario.

there was something else......it will come to me later.

b9k

What a bunch of bullshit.

Everyone is so worked up over this case while at the same time ignoring the really serious issues. So a stripper got fucked (maybe) by some guys that she didn't (maybe) want to do it with.

My dad always said watch out, because a woman can run faster with her skirt up than a guy can with his pants down.

Rock

[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] bullshit.

yes, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] is an actual violent crime, and is a horrible societal offence. quite frankly, if i had a daughter and a man did that to her, i would probably kill him, bare handed.

however, it has been turned by feminists into one of the biggest anti man weapons out there, along with sexual harassment.

i remember starting at a small public midwestern university 17 years ago.

the absolute first thing broadcast by "the powers that be" (i don't recall the exact transmission methods-probably dorm orientations, and definitely the school paper) was [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] this, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] that, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] sensitivity, date [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]......about 6 weeks into the term, there was an "attempted [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]" which caused the campus to be on virtual "lockdown" with campus maps being circulated with indications of "high danger areas", and the rotc offering a "walk home" service (mostly a way to meet girls). it turned out later to be a hoax, perpetrated by someone with an agenda (big surprise right guys)....i remember clearly that it was actually kind of funny because the artists drawing of the "suspect" strongly resembled a nationally famous comedian....who was the entertainment for homecoming in a few weeks.

now me personally, as a somewhat naive, impressionable young guy (having not received any instruction in countervailing points of view) took this bullshit to heart...and turned into a "sensitive" guy, barely willing (while sober anyways) to make an aggressive (necessary) move toward a girl-----exactly the state that these cunts want men to be in. needless to say, i didn't get any ass that first term!!!!

coming back to the duke thing, although as previously mentioned i will be more than amused to see a couple of spoiled overprivledged college athletes take a big nasty hit, i will absolutely, definitely, blow a load if it turns out that this chick faked it or whatever....unfortunately, in actuality, it will probably end ambiguously ("not enough evidence to convict") and people will end up with their own conclusions.


b9k

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Very true, the legal system with regards to male suspect, female accuser is usually male is guilty until proven innocent. In other news, I would strongly advise the men on this board to avoid Anglophone countries for play. A lot of the Oprah shit has made its way down under, go to Southeast Asia, South America, Eastern Europe, hell I even heard some Middle Eastern places are better places to meet women. Anyhow I am headed to Penang and Bangkok.[/QUOTE]I read plenty of posts on the American thread and this forum in general and finally am getting off my backside to be more of a poster/contributor rather than a lurker. Anyway I find your posts quite interesting in general and you make many good points. One aspect of your posts has intrigued me, is that I seem to get the impression that you find the women in Australia a lot better than American women. Being an ozzie, its funny because all the posts on American women I read here, I personally think that they nearly all apply equally to Australian women. So when sometimes you seem to imply ozzie women are better, I would hate to be on the dating scene in the U.S. then!

My only U.S. expereince was for a month so I probably don't have much insight. I was thinking that maybe your experience with Australian women is better because I think Australian women might have a bit of a thing for foreign men in general? But overall when I read the American women thread I believe that Australian women have been "americanised" and share the same traits as are often mentioned here.
So I am interested what your current feelings are towards Australian women as opposed to American women, are they any better, or do you think they share many of the same traits as American women?

Cheers

here's what pisses me off about this whole situation.

a woman comes on strong with a guy who is not interested. that's ok, a: because 99% of all heterosexual guys don't mind that sort of thing and b: she can portray herself as being sexually empowered/liberated. even if she's absolutely homely fat and disgusting, the guy would just shrug it off, go home have a beer and forget about it.

now when a guy comes on strong with a woman who isn't interested. that's bad because a: the woman automatically gets portrayed as a victim and b: the man is automatically labelled as some kind of aggressive sexual deviant. instead of just shrugging it off, the woman claims to be traumatized and requires counseling so that she can "get closure" and "enable the healing process".

this line of reasoning applies to what i call "gray area" intercourse, which is to say, intercourse where consent may or may not have been given. this is opposed to straight up [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]..... where there is no consent and the man gets his enjoyment from violently subjugating the woman.

there have been many cases like this. in fact, some women will get themselves into socially embarrassing situations like these. afterwards, they will claim to have been sexually assaulted in order to protect their "reputation".

it's like someone said, these days no means no, maybe means no, silence means no ....... and even yes can mean no if the woman decides to change her mind later.

rock

[QUOTE=Marak5]Also my friend just tipped me off to this new england journal of medicine article, and it said like 33% of american women have no sexual desire, and another 17% don't even enjoy sex. The divorce rate here is 50%.[/QUOTE]See New England Journal of Medicine "Sexual Desire and Arousal Disorders in Women" by Rosemary Basson, M.D. Volume 354:1497-1506 April 6, 2006 Number 14

[QUOTE=Bart9000]I personally would like to be living in Europe right now (I'm aiming for age 40, 5 years off), and the biggest potential impediment is the EU work visa.[/QUOTE]Since the invention of the internet and e-commerce has made it fairly easy to make money from anywhere in the world, why on earth would a work visa be a problem?

With 5 years to do it you can build an online business that makes as much money as you need to support you anywhere you want to live.

And don't forget, there are backdoors available to EU citizenship. I won't give you details but I will give you hints.

Hint 1: Honduras
Hint 2: Spain
Hint 3: EU

Now get to work.

I'll PM you.....I think I get the gist here...I also know that Italy is an easy one.....you can go there, get like a residence permit, and then use that to get their equivilent of a social security number....which you can use to work legally.

Thanks,

B9K

[quote=Bart9000]Several parts of the former Eastern Bloc are EU member states, including the Czech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, and probably eventually Ukraine....one could marry a girl from one of those places, and have a "ticket" to work anywhere in the EU, such as Amsterdam, Berlin, Barcelona etc....[/quote]Neither Romania nor Bulgaria are members of EU, though they will be in one or two years if they play good. The Ukraine won't be for many many years. The referendums in the Netherlands and France, sobered EU politicians a bit, so lobbying for new member states would be a bad idea and they know it.

You can apply for a working visa, and there are good chances you get one given that you are well educated and there is a company asking for your services. You should also speak at least one more language besides English, unless you opt for Ireland or the UK. Good luck.

[quote=Elberto]
And don't forget, there are backdoors available to EU citizenship. I won't give you details but I will give you hints.

Hint 1: Honduras
Hint 2: Spain
Hint 3: EU[/quote]Why not giving us details? Spain=EU, but explain the Honduras to Spain step. You mean spaniards let people from former colonies in just like that? I don't think so.

Leeuwen,

I was appearently mistaken about Romania and Bulgaria-although a year or two is of course nothing. From what I have read, Ukraine is shooting for 2015-9 years which on the other hand isn't easily dismissed. Isn't it correct however, that some privleges, such as "mobility of labor" are, or can be granted prior to full ascension.

My understanding is that things can be a bit more complicated than simply applying for a job, being hired, and granted a work visa. I understand that there are some bureaucratic hassles to the employer involved such as advertising the position locally for six weeks in an attempt to find a suitable local candidate. Quite frankly, although I have a high degree of education, I don't (to the extent of my knowledge) have any particular skill that would warrant the hassle. I do know that the multi national corporations have the manpower(for dealing with hassles) and political influence to move people pretty much wherever they want to go, but to this point in time, I haven't had any success with say GE Europe-Possibly, this is a defeatist attitude, but I'm inclined to think that what I am able to do isn't "special and unique" enough to warrant bringing me to another continent for a job interview. I'm certainly aware that I can come and teach english as a second language, but due to my heavy student loan debt, I need to earn a decent western style salary-that kind of work pays about $500 monthly in Prague, and 750 Euro monthly in Nice France....presumably salaries are similar in Spain, Italy, Germany....

I am working on developing some semi-unique skills that will eventually make me marketable to an overseas employer, and do have a little online business I'm working with. But in the meantime.....

At any rate, thank you for the encouragement at least

B9k

PS I did PM Elberto for some exact details...he is yet to respond to me.

Elberto contacted me.

Appearently you need only be a resident of a Spanish colony for two years to be able to apply for Spanish citizenship, which of course entitles you to work anywhere in the EU.

Anyone who wants the info link, PM me.

B9K

B9K:

Even though the EU is governed by a self-serving government that nobody elected but was rather appointed (so much for democracy) and the citizens of Europe never even were allowed to vote to have the EU created or have a common currency created (again, so much for democracy) and many in the appointed EU government would like to allow any and every nation into the less than exclusive union, the current political climate is not one that encourages immigration. As Leeuwen correctly stated, recent referendums on the subject of EU expansion were shot down in Denmark and France among others, which surprised fat-headed EU politicians who believed they could shove anything down the peoples throat. I have great respect for the French for making a stand on this issue.

Of course there are always ways to get in, but I would double and triple check any reports of it being so easy to become an EU citizen or get a work permit, especially through Spain which is struggling with a rising immigration problem, particularly from North Africa. I might be wrong and have never tried myself to become an EU citizen myself, but like I said the current political climate is more protectionist than liberal.

As for Ukraine, I think Yushenko might have overplayed his card by burning all bridges to Russia in his effort to westernize Ukraine and make a bid for EU membership. I think even 2015 is a long shot, but who knows. So far most Euro governments see no reason at all to let in further members and most already regret so readily accepting nations such as Bulgaria or Romania. They will be nothing but tax burdens and places to outsource production and services, further slowing the economies of the EUs primary motors, such as Germany, France or Italy. Of course some in big business will profit from this outsourcing, but ultimately the burden will fall on the already overladen taxpayer, stifling his earnings and slowing the consumption fueled economy.

Or maybe not. What the hell do I know.

All this talk of getting into the EU.

The question is, why? To gain access to low-cost eastern european poontang? There must be a better way. For one thing, I believe you're aiming at the wrong target. The EU, in general, is a high cost/lower standard of living place to live. Don't believe me? Try staying in France, Germany or the UK for a few weeks and then we'll see what you think.

The idea of first living in Honduras or any other former Spanish colony is an excellent one. You might find that you've attained your goal in one step. These countries (eg. Honduras, Colombia, Argentina etc.) are not too expensive to live in and are populated with some of the most excellent women in the world. Plus, they are a lot closer to "home" for us North Americans. Also, cheaper to get there and you don't have to contend with way out differences in time zones. Language is another bonus. Spanish or English.... that's it. If you know these 2 languages you can go ANYwhere in Latin America.

If you guys STILL have a burning desire for europe, go ahead..... but there a much stronger case to be made for South America. Just ask Jackson about Argentina sometime and see what he says.

Rock

ps. If I WAS going to head for Europe, I'd look into buying some property somewhere in EE. Possibly along the Adriatic coastline of Croatia. That's right across from Italy.... not too expensive, and makes for a nice mongering "base of operations".

Rock,

All great suggestions, but unfortunately, I have a constraint-I have a US dollar obligation of about $300 a month (student loan-balance 52K)....much as I would like to say "fuck it all", and move to a tropical paradise, I unfortunately have to contend with that payment, which means that I can't work for a poor countries salary.

I know that Western Europe also has it's downsides, my thought is that I could earn a westernized salary there, plus, if I settle down, I'm of the impression that the wife wouldn't get "westernized", at least to the same degree.


Now should my little business take off, and I can work from anywhere, I might be inclined to split my time between Prague (cool Euro flavor, inexpensive, cosmopolitan), and someplace warm during the winter....coastal Croatia, Bulgaria, and Odessa also caught my eye...or as you have mentioned, Argentina, Honduras.....

By the way, Dr S, regarding:

"Or maybe not. What the hell do I know."

In my humble opinion, only the truly learned and insightful man realizes the extent to which his own perceptions can be incorrect.
.

When I meet new people overseas, and tell them I'm from the U.S., some find it hard to believe, they tell me I don't "act like an American." I'm not sure what it is they mean exactly, but it seems to be something they like, as if they are complimenting me. I've gotten this response from both women and men, and both Asian and European. Some of them went so far as to insist that I call them up (in their hometown or wherever). And, as you might guess, some were women with whom I became intimate.

Now I'm stuck in the U.S. again with little or no social life, just as it was for me here as a teenager and a couple decades or so of adult life. It's almost like being a monk. I'm wondering if this same "unamerican" quality that I have, that works in my favor overseas, actually works against me here.

I'm not suggesting that any one culture or personality type is "better" or "worse" than any other. I'm just wondering if some personality types are a better match for certain cultures, while not working so well in other cultures.

I would like to hear from others, especially those who have lived in the U.S. as well as other countries, and let me know your thoughts and observations on this.

Thanks,
Night Cat

[b]Bart9000[/b] - Think about it. If only two years of residency in a former Spanish colony is all it takes to be able to apply for Spanish citizenship, don't you think half of the South and Central America would already have moved to Spain? Personally I have never heard of this law, but should have, given the consequences related to it. Looking forward to see some proofs. [url]http://www.euimmigration.org/[/url]

[b]Doctor Skank[/b] - Do you mind, but [u]GW Bush is an appointed president[/u] by the Supreme Court, not elected one (so much for democracy). He and geezers with similar view on democracy, lied to American tax payers about the war in Iraq, as they lied about pretty much everthing else. Look who's talking now.

[quote=Doktor Skank]Even though the EU is governed by a self-serving government that nobody elected but was rather appointed (so much for democracy) and the citizens of Europe never even were allowed to vote to have the EU created or have a common currency created (again, so much for democracy) and many in the appointed EU government would like to allow any and every nation into the less than exclusive union, the current political climate is not one that encourages immigration.[/quote]Whatever the source is, it's wrong and reflects ignorant opnions, which you may have come in contact with while in Europe. There have been referendums on whether to join EU or not to. There have also been referendums regarding euro currency. Latest referendum covered the constitution.

Few examples:

1994 - Norway votes 'no' to EU membership (today majority of Norwegians is in favour)

1995 - Sweden votes 'yes' to EU membership

2000 - Denmark votes 'no' to euro currency

2005 - Spain votes 'yes' to EU constitution

What some citizens failed to understand, was that by signing the Maastricht Treaty member countries were obliged to join the Economic and Monetary Union. Denmark and the UK had a clause excluding EMU, hence euro referendum was held in Denmark but not elsewhere. The newest EU members held national referendums on regarding membership, joining single currency (in few years), and ratification of the constitution.

[quote=Rock Dog]All this talk of getting into the EU.
The question is, why? To gain access to low-cost eastern european poontang? There must be a better way. For one thing, I believe you're aiming at the wrong target. The EU, in general, is a high cost/lower standard of living place to live. Don't believe me? Try staying in France, Germany or the UK for a few weeks and then we'll see what you think.[/quote]Nobody here has slightest doubts you are better off with 100€ in Honduras compared to France or Germany, but there are few blondes in Central and South America. Diffrent strokes for different folkes. If EE blondes are your cup of tea, then best way to stay in Europe must be to work for an European division of a U.S company. Germany would be optimal from points of view such as many flights to EE destinations, and amount of EE women in the country. You can also bring them to Germany and for a trial period, haha. Even if there are incredible beautiful women in Venezuela and Colombia, you can't stay in those countires without giving up your employment, right? And bringing them back to the U.S is complicated. So either getting laid every night, 365 days a year, or making a two week excursion to Colombia once a year (for average Joe from Texas).

Bart9000,

That's a whole different story.... if you have a business over there and it's making you some $$$. Check with our mutual friend Brian regarding Russia though. He has some eye opening info..... you might want to avoid going there. Prague or Odessa both get two thumbs up from me. Only thing is Ukraine's long term future with regards to it's political stability. However those women are hot and, according to Brian, a bargain.

Marak,
The women I've seen from Honduras look like they have a lot of indian in them. Many latina looking women to be sure, but there seems to be a common type there...... kind of short, a little bit thick, and big tits. I don't think the average Honduran girl is as pretty as a Colombian one, but there's always a few nice ones wherever you go.

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Bart9000,

That's a whole different story.... if you have a business over there and it's making you some $$$. Check with our mutual friend Brian regarding Russia though. He has some eye opening info..... you might want to avoid going there. Prague or Odessa both get two thumbs up from me. Only thing is Ukraine's long term future with regards to it's political stability. However those women are hot and, according to Brian, a bargain.

Marak,
The women I've seen from Honduras look like they have a lot of indian in them. Many latina looking women to be sure, but there seems to be a common type there...... kind of short, a little bit thick, and big tits. I don't think the average Honduran girl is as pretty as a Colombian one, but there's always a few nice ones wherever you go.

Rock[/QUOTE]


Actually, Odessa is a little bit pricey believe it or not (seems like I saw pretty much "ordinary" houses selling for 2-300,000...as I recall, there was a "pimp daddy" condo there selling for about 250K)...I'm sure that going 5 miles inland would fix that, but I REALLY like the concept of living on the coast. Also, yes believe me, I'm aware of political instability. I believe that, would I choose to live there, I would have a definite "escape plan" available....not to mention be ready to wave my blue passport around if necessary....I don't approve of many things in the US, but it can be a good thing to be a citizen of the country that is the last military superpower.

I really like the Czech Republic, and they are head and shoulders up in this regard...unfortunately the country is landlocked....I could maybe cope if I spent 6 months out of the year in Nassau, Costa Rica, whatever

Night Cat-Do the words "I feel like a stranger in my own homeland" mean anything to you? I've been told that my attitudes are more European than American, am bored to death by sports (so I can barely communicate with most other men), and you don't want to know what I think of a good portion of organized religion (this used to not be that big a factor until they started putting guys with PE teacher IQ's, and their greedy self serving friends in charge of the free world because otherwise gay men might have wedding ceremonies and share insurance benefits) I have always generally gotten along better with people from anyplace OTHER than the US, including even people from the middle east (I had Turkish and Pakistani roomates in college-those guys were awesome), and "non-americanized" Mexicans.

B9K

Any guys of European descent should get birth documents from your grandparents right away. I met a guy in Cali, Colombia, who was born in the US but whose grandmother was born in Ireland. He told me he took advantage of an Irish law that conveyed citizenship on the descendants of Irish nationals, even if they were born outside of Ireland. When he became an Irish citizen, he automatically became a citizen of the EU and now has the right to live and work anywhere is Europe!

I understand that Italy is also very liberal in that regard, with a similar policy

If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it! I was watching Oprah to see who she was gonna vilify today and BAM!!! She featured sex predators... (waiting to deliver the punch line) all of whom were WOMEN!! AND she tore into her very first sex predator guest! IT GETS BETTER!!! She told the broad that 1] there is a DOUBLE STANDARD in this country regarding punishment of sex predators by gender and 2] she told the broad that if she were a MAN, the country would want to throw her UNDER the jail and toss away the key!!

My bretheren, I'm almost afraid to go outside right now for fear that I'll find I'm no longer in my own universe. I may find Pat Robertson holding prayer meetings with leaders of the Gay Community and openly embracing them, Dubya telling the world that he's wrong for dismissing the intelligence community (and later BLAMING THEM) that got us into the Iraq quagmire, Al-Zarqui holding a cookout (inviting non-Muslims) featuring barbecued ham, and alcohol galore... LOL

nope,

here's how i see this one. this is oprah's insidious way of telling us that women have gotten so equal, and now have so much power that they feel it is now "safe" for them to go after (ie. criticize or attack) each other. this is really just the absolute height of political correctness.

the actual fact of the matter is, there is a difference when a 23 yr old woman has sex with a 13/14 yr old boy vs. a 23 yr old man doing it with a 13 yr old girl. the boy can't get pregnant.... and have his life messed up. the boy can't engage in the act unless he is sexually aroused (and by implication, willing). finally, the boy may actually get a fair amount of positive peer reactions from..... well, from his peers. back when i was 13, i would have been the hero of the year if i could have scored with one of my teachers.... or any full-grown woman for that matter.

a 13 year old girl could feel pressured into the act by vritue of the adult's authority and do it without being aroused at all, but rather scared out of her wits.... this would be quite traumatic. also, there's not going to be any postive reactions from her peers. she's more likely to be stigmatized as "the girl that had sex with that man".

so, relax sinanju..... oprah is still full of shit, and the world still makes sense.

rock

Well put Rock Dog.

[QUOTE=George90]Any guys of European descent should get birth documents from your grandparents right away. I met a guy in Cali, Colombia, who was born in the US but whose grandmother was born in Ireland. He told me he took advantage of an Irish law that conveyed citizenship on the descendants of Irish nationals, even if they were born outside of Ireland. When he became an Irish citizen, he automatically became a citizen of the EU and now has the right to live and work anywhere is Europe![/QUOTE]

That is correct George, Irish citizenship is granted to anyone who has one grandparent who was born in the island of Ireland (including Northern Ireland) it is actually a huge loophole given that the actual population of Ireland is about 5 million whereas there must be ten times that number of people living in the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa who can legally claim citizenship through their oul' Irish granny.

With an Irish passport you can automatically live and work anywhere in the EU, including all those nice new entrants from central and eastern Europe, Czech Rep, Latvia, Poland, Hungary etc. You do not even have to show your passport if travelling between the UK and Ireland but will have to present it when travelling to the continent.

Enjoy this loophole while it lasts folks.

That would be one way of getting into the European Union, which has some of the most difficult laws and attitudes towards migrants. Americans regardless of origin are very welcome in most countries. Still, from what I know from people who live in the more affluent Euro countries is that the women and the divorce issues are just as bad if not worse than the USA. Most people who want to leave the USA think about Europe because it has modern living standards. With the modern living standards comes the similar attitudes you see in North America. This is a link to divorce rates around the world: [url]http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml[/url]

Poland is the only new EU state that doesn't seem to have a high divorce rate. Italy, Spain, and Portugal are also lower.

[quote=rock dog]nope,

here's how i see this one. this is oprah's insidious way of telling us that women have gotten so equal, and now have so much power that they feel it is now "safe" for them to go after (ie. criticize or attack) each other. this is really just the absolute height of political correctness.

the actual fact of the matter is, there is a difference when a 23 yr old woman has sex with a 13/14 yr old boy vs. a 23 yr old man doing it with a 13 yr old girl. the boy can't get pregnant.... and have his life messed up. the boy can't engage in the act unless he is sexually aroused (and by implication, willing). finally, the boy may actually get a fair amount of positive peer reactions from..... well, from his peers. back when i was 13, i would have been the hero of the year if i could have scored with one of my teachers.... or any full-grown woman for that matter.

a 13 year old girl could feel pressured into the act by vritue of the adult's authority and do it without being aroused at all, but rather scared out of her wits.... this would be quite traumatic. also, there's not going to be any postive reactions from her peers. she's more likely to be stigmatized as "the girl that had sex with that man".

so, relax sinanju..... oprah is still full of shit, and the world still makes sense.

rock[/quote]


so a 13 year old boy can give consent, but a 13 year old girl could never. and girls are always forced to have sex.

i never thought women could enjoy sex either.

Tyhigs,

You're reading something that I didn't write. The fact is, I never wrote that 13 yr olds of either gender could give consent. Legally speaking, neither can give consent. That being said, males have to be physically aroused in order to have intercourse (as long as we aren't talking about oral sex). Girls DON'T have to be aroused.

It's true that such a young girl might be a willing participant. A young boy might do it with an adult woman, and then later feel disturbed by the experience. However, the double standard exists for a reason. It didn't just arise spontaneously for no good reason. That's what I was trying to get at with my post.

It's a hard issue to get into..... if you go too far, you start coming across as an advocate for sexual relations between adults and kids in their early teens.

Oprah is trying to imply that there should be no double standard because there is no difference between men and women. She used this issue to skillfully and subtly push her own agenda of total feminist equality . All I'm saying is, there ARE differences between males and females.... both physical and psychological. In my opinion, double standards don't just pop up on their own.... they arise for a reason.

This was definitely one of those times.

Rock

ps. Hopefully, this clarifies my position

Took a ride with a Nigeria-born shuttle van driver. It turned out that he's an educated man, graduated an Electrical Engineer from California Polytechnics University-Pomona.

He was working as an engineer, living a happy single’s life. He felt awkward at family gatherings that all his siblings were married with kids. It seems that they all wanted him to get hooked into the same trap as they. At 40, he finally married a registered nurse from Nigeria and brought her to America. She refused to go to work, at the same time demanded him to work extra jobs to bring more money into the household. He deeply resented the fact that she could be making $45-$60 an hour but refused to go to work.

Despite hating each other, somehow they had 6 children in the past 20 years. The oldest son was a star football player in high school and was offered full football scholarship to UCLA. He‘s very fond, loving and proud of his children. He was smiling broadly when complaining that the 6 children are all big size and they ate him broke.

But he just hates the wife. Apparently they had lots of fights. Each time they had arguments, she would call 911 to summon the police. He ended up going to jail 3 times. He lost his engineer job in one of the incarcerations and lost his home. He could not get back into the job market for professionals. He therefore bought a van, paid $30K for the franchise fee and drive people to and from airports etc…The franchiser also takes 25% of his revenue. It’s a hard life but he’s paying for 2 kids in college and 4 younger ones who eat big time everyday.

Apparently there were also a lot of fights among the children but she never called 911 on them. So she was just abusing the police to punish her husband. It seems they both love the children passionately but just hate each other. It’s strange how they hate each other that much and still managed to have 6 children together.

This story is very common among foreign-born wives. They would call 911 every time they are pissed off, abusing the police to punish their mates. They are also more inclined to abuse other public services like social assistance, health care etc… It seems that they feel inferior and do not like to mingle socially, or to compete in the work place. They are more likely to stay home and depend on their husbands entirely for their living, while manipulating and abusing them in the worst ways.

It seems that their lives are entirely focused at …HOME, and that where their main battles are.

Life is so much simpler and more beautiful if one just goes to TJ and pay the young, sweet, pretty chicas for hot sessions.

the fact that there is an obvious overt difference in arousal between the young boy and girl does not mean that there should be a difference in how the crime is classified.the boy also does not have to get pregnant to have his life "messed up" he could be screwed up later in life just by the experience, not everyone is the same.

you seem to be saying because the boy gets overtly aroused and the girl does not have to there is or should be a difference in the equality of it. a female teacher that performs oral sex on a young boy will arouse him, its natural for him to be aroused, but the arousal in no way equates to consent, the arousal is natural.

also at 13, the boy could still get teased or harrassed by his peers. its cute for people to say when i was 13 i would have love to have had sex with my teacher, but they are saying it now (when they are older) not when they were 13. these type of interactions can negatively affect some boys and in some cases they may not.

there are some natural overt differences as you pointed out, but they are just male and female differences. if society adopted the macho image that the boy may have been a willing participant or enjoyed the act, there's no telling where this issue would end up.

we could start excusing female teachers who have sex with minor boys and not classify it as a crime,or make them lesser crimes than if it was with a girl, but what if the boy was our own 13 yr old son?

just my opinion.


[quote=rock dog]nope,


nope,

here's how i see this one. this is oprah's insidious way of telling us that women have gotten so equal, and now have so much power that they feel it is now "safe" for them to go after (ie. criticize or attack) each other. this is really just the absolute height of political correctness.

the actual fact of the matter is, there is a difference when a 23 yr old woman has sex with a 13/14 yr old boy vs. a 23 yr old man doing it with a 13 yr old girl. the boy can't get pregnant.... and have his life messed up. the boy can't engage in the act unless he is sexually aroused (and by implication, willing). finally, the boy may actually get a fair amount of positive peer reactions from..... well, from his peers. back when i was 13, i would have been the hero of the year if i could have scored with one of my teachers.... or any full-grown woman for that matter.

a 13 year old girl could feel pressured into the act by vritue of the adult's authority and do it without being aroused at all, but rather scared out of her wits.... this would be quite traumatic. also, there's not going to be any postive reactions from her peers. she's more likely to be stigmatized as "the girl that had sex with that man".

so, relax sinanju..... oprah is still full of shit, and the world still makes sense.

rock



rock[/quote]

Interesting discussion here, my bretheren. At the end of the day, sex with a minor by EITHER sex is a crime. PERIOD. I was channel surfing and came upon one of the female teachers (from Florida, I believe) in the middle of a media circus and this fucking B*TCH had the BALLS to say that there was no double standard where this type of crime is concerned. ON TOP OF THAT, she felt she did NO WRONG!! One couldn't get more POSITIVE evidence of a double standard than if you went to the top of Mount Sinai and got it inscribed in STONE!

What puzzles me about this whole thing, is what motivation does a woman like Debra Lafave have in seducing a 14 year old?

Power trip?
Some sort of vengeance?
Self-hate?
Simply lust?

It really doesnt make much sense to me, as a 14 year old boy is not usually what a woman would consider a sex object. The fact that she is above-average looking makes it even more puzzling for most men. She obviously would have a decent selection of grown men to choose from. I am sure the P.E. teacher would have loved to have seen Ms.Lafave on an extra-curricular basis.

I also wonder if what happened is a society-induced largely American phenomenon, just like disgruntled employees shooting their co-workers (which happens almost exclusively in the US) or acute obesity, an American phenomenon being effectively globalized. I am not nearly as America-paranoid as many posters (have lived in several countries and took a little satisfaction in realizing how fucked up they can be too), but do admit that some pretty whack things do happen in the good ol' US of A.

So why does she do it? Seems to me that sexual pleasure cannot have been the central motivation.

[QUOTE=One Wing Low]Took a ride with a Nigeria-born shuttle van driver. It turned out that he's an educated man, graduated an Electrical Engineer from California Polytechnics University-Pomona.

He was working as an engineer, living a happy single’s life. He felt awkward at family gatherings that all his siblings were married with kids. It seems that they all wanted him to get hooked into the same trap as they. At 40, he finally married a registered nurse from Nigeria and brought her to America. She refused to go to work, at the same time demanded him to work extra jobs to bring more money into the household. He deeply resented the fact that she could be making $45-$60 an hour but refused to go to work.

Despite hating each other, somehow they had 6 children in the past 20 years. The oldest son was a star football player in high school and was offered full football scholarship to UCLA. He‘s very fond, loving and proud of his children. He was smiling broadly when complaining that the 6 children are all big size and they ate him broke.

But he just hates the wife. Apparently they had lots of fights. Each time they had arguments, she would call 911 to summon the police. He ended up going to jail 3 times. He lost his engineer job in one of the incarcerations and lost his home. He could not get back into the job market for professionals. He therefore bought a van, paid $30K for the franchise fee and drive people to and from airports etc…The franchiser also takes 25% of his revenue. It’s a hard life but he’s paying for 2 kids in college and 4 younger ones who eat big time everyday.

Apparently there were also a lot of fights among the children but she never called 911 on them. So she was just abusing the police to punish her husband. It seems they both love the children passionately but just hate each other. It’s strange how they hate each other that much and still managed to have 6 children together.

This story is very common among foreign-born wives. They would call 911 every time they are pissed off, abusing the police to punish their mates. They are also more inclined to abuse other public services like social assistance, health care etc… It seems that they feel inferior and do not like to mingle socially, or to compete in the work place. They are more likely to stay home and depend on their husbands entirely for their living, while manipulating and abusing them in the worst ways.

It seems that their lives are entirely focused at …HOME, and that where their main battles are.[/QUOTE]
When you bring a woman from a developing country into a modern one, they will in most cases integrate quite well. Therefore they won't have much in common with women from their home country and will be "Westernized".

[QUOTE=One Wing Low]
He was working as an engineer, living a happy single’s life. He felt awkward at family gatherings that all his siblings were married with kids. It seems that they all wanted him to get hooked into the same trap as they. At 40, he finally married a registered nurse from Nigeria and brought her to America. She refused to go to work, at the same time demanded him to work extra jobs to bring more money into the household. He deeply resented the fact that she could be making $45-$60 an hour but refused to go to work./QUOTE]

OWL,

I just HAVE to respond to your post. Because I prefer foreign women to US women and expect to marry a foreign woman when I am ready.

Have you ever been to Nigeria? Have you ever seen how women there atreated by society? Did you know that Nigerian men can legally marry up to 4 wives, due to the strong influence of Sharia (Islamic) Law? Do you realize that you cannot generalize about all women from every other country in the world based on your experience with 1 Nigerian couple?

Nigeria is a very messed up country on all aspects! Economic, social, political, moral, you name it! It is in a class by itself. Well, maybe Haiti is also in its class. Nigeria and Haiti are major mess-up countries that have nothing in common with any other countries. When a Nigerian woman comes to the US, she cannot be compared with any other woman coming from some oter country.

How do I know? I have been friends with Nigerians. I have been to Nigeria and seen the attitudes with my own eyes. Nigerian women are oppressed there and are full of hostility towards men and male power. When they come here and are free to do as they please, they get revenge on ANY AND ALL men who cross their paths. That man's wife was likely forced to marry him, as he was also likely "coerced" to marry her. Parents and family elders, especially well-to-do ones, still choose the spouses of their children. They fight each other because they each represent, for the other, the lack of autonomy and personal power in the choice of one's mate.

That example is not representative of the experience one may have with a woman from Colombia, Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Philipines, etc.

... to avoid women from oppressed countries, just like avoiding women from abusive families.

It's wise to narrow the selection for one's mate among those obviously from loving, fun, healthy, principled ... families, preferably from roughly the same socio-economic and religious backgrounds. It helps reducing the gap of common understandings and the potentials for conflicts and friction in the relationship.

It's wise to accept the person one marries as is. If one ever aspires to make any changes in a person after marriage, even minor ones, one is asking for lots of problems that could eventually destroy the relationship.

One should make a realistic list of changes the potential mate must make for smooth integration into his lifestyle, then estimate how much risks there will be in the relationship.

[QUOTE=George90]How do I know? I have been friends with Nigerians. I have been to Nigeria and seen the attitudes with my own eyes. Nigerian women are oppressed there and are full of hostility towards men and male power. When they come here and are free to do as they please, they get revenge on ANY AND ALL men who cross their paths.[/QUOTE]

Dr. Skank,

I have spent some hours wondering the exact same thing......with no apparent answer except that in our permissive society, that boy may represent the only forbidden fruit that is left.

Sinanju Master,

I agree 100%.

Run Mann,

I'd rather it was my 13 yr old son than my 13 yr old daughter......wouldn't you?

Rock

Rock Dog,

My immediate response is yes, but I don't know how much damage this event could do to my son (if I had one). Let’s say the teacher looked like Willem Dafoe or even Rosie O'Donnell, he could be scarred for life from such a traumatic event.

This is really a collateral point though. I took issue with your post because you were making the point that there was difference in how child predators should be viewed if they violated a 13 yr old male versus a 13 yrs old female and that the males were (implied) willing participants because they got aroused. There is no difference in how society should punish the predator that violated a 13 yr old male or the one that violated the 13 yr old female.


Peace.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]



Run Mann,

I'd rather it was my 13 yr old son than my 13 yr old daughter......wouldn't you?

Rock[/QUOTE]

Doctor_Skank, Rock Dog, Run Mann

Gentlemen, as yourselves, I have given this issue some considerable thought. Debra Lafave is a paedophile. As such, my conclusion is that she should burn for that fact. Plain and simple. We owe it to all children, wherever they might be, in whichever country rich or poor, boy or girl...

Regards, Havanaman

One Wing Low -

I don't claim to know what the secret is to a "successful" relationship - common class and cultural background, etc. - maybe.

It is wise to accept the person you marry as they are, with any compromises worked out beforehand, and not try to make changes after the fact. The problem is bound up in the old saying, "A woman marries a man hoping he'll change, and a man marries a woman hoping she won't change."

So much of the disappointment that men have expressed here with foreign or native AW they have married, is the changes they pull in so many ways. It's more like - is she a closet chameleon or isn't she?

Havanaman,

If you were a 14 yrs old again, and Debra Lafave gave you the chance to have sex with her, what would you do?

I remember, at age 14, all I could think about was tits ass and p*ssy all day long. I would have been in heaven if I was nailing that piece.

Having said that, when asked why she wanted to have sex with a 14 yr old boy, Debra Lafave told him that the idea excited her because "it wasn't allowed".

Comments anyone?

Rock

first, it's important to make a distinction between someone who is ****d, and a child. a child is someone who is not sexually mature - biologically unable to conceive. there is never any justification for an adult to engage in sexual activity with a child. "****d" is a legal concept that reflects many things other than human biology. it is not unusual for people to become sexually mature by age 12, or even younger. the later the status of ****d is extended, the more it reflects the puritanical attitudes of society. that is, sex is evil and shameful. the longer we can restrict it, delay it, keep people ignorant of it, the better. use any excuse.

we all must abide by the law. that doesn't mean we have to suspend our common sense. insisting on treating all sexual encounters between biological adults exactly the same is simply political correctness at its most cynical.

demanding we treat teenaged boys as traumatized by sex with an older woman is necessary so that we can continue to treat all teenaged girls as traumatized by sex with older men, while maintaining the feminist fiction that females don't need or demand special protection.

vilifying the adults equally, both male and female, is an expression of our puritanism.

i think it's pretty interesting that on a board dedicated to the pursuit of sex, that some feel it necessary to assert moral superiority by labeling people "****s" and then looking for a rope. as others have observed, most teenaged boys feel like they've died and gone to heaven if they have a chance to boink their teacher. i don't pretend to understand what any girl or woman really wants. demanding draconian punishment for what is essentially a victimless "crime" (teenaged boy - older woman) is a very strange position for anyone on this board to take. it's not a very reasonable position for anyone to take.

gentlemen,

i’m not going to be drawn into someone’s flame fantasy. where, from a medical view point, i would suggest getting help. suffice it to say that:

1. a paedophile is defined in the o.e.d as an adult who is sexually attracted to children.

2. the law clearly states when a young human is a child and when he / she is not. this differs from country to country and indeed there are degrees of “adulthood actions” permissible, under law, at given ages. it is also commonly accepted in many countries that the age of 16 be kept, in law, as an acceptable age at which a young adult can legally participate in sexual intercourse.

3. as an adult, debra lafave broke the law.

4. debra lafave’s own testimony leaves “her hanging” as a paedophile. she molested a minor.

5. the law protects us all. it is neither here nor there that people mature at different ages. we are all equally required to follow the law. this applies as much to issues on this site as to anywhere else. apart from paedophiles, there are not many adults on this planet that would support the idea of offering anything but appropriate punishment for a person self confessed to “sleeping with…”/ “making out with…” / “making love with…” or just plain molesting an ****d person.

6. it’s self evident that a 14-year-old male child will have raging hormones and would possibly enjoy the experience. to claim that there has been no victim is not only absurd, it’s pathetic, discounting as it so frivolously does the possibility of psychological damage and indeed mental trauma. american jurisprudence is so full of such cases it’s trite for me to “even go there…”. any non-paedophilic adult would have not only not been “attracted” to the child, they would have not allowed anything to happen…

7. i think it's pretty interesting that on a board dedicated to the pursuit of sex between consenting adults, that some feel it necessary to assert moral superiority by offering some form of weak defence to self confessed child molesters. it’s not my place as a surgeon but i would urge a consultation with one of my psychiatric colleagues…

8. debra lafave broke the law. she should burn for that fact, so rope is not needed. plain and simple. we owe it to all children, wherever they might be, in whichever country rich or poor, boy or girl... i hope mr. glitter is listening…

9. enough already…

regards, havanaman

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Havanaman,

Having said that, when asked why she wanted to have sex with a 14 yr old boy, Debra Lafave told him that the idea excited her because "it wasn't allowed".

Comments anyone?

Rock[/QUOTE]


Rock,

Based on previously presented arguments by others, I guess it might have excited her even more the less mature the child as from those arguments, the child would have been younger and so according to societal constructs “even more not allowed…”.

In the final analysis, when its wrong, its wrong. You know it. I know it. We all know it…

One good thing about American women: they are not all looking at 14 year olds. I have seen some real diamonds, but then again I’ve been with some real paste. When I see Debra Lafave’s face, yes I can see the beauty, but I find it difficult to get past the child abuse. Thats just me and I in now way exhort that to you or anyone else.

Regards, Havanaman

ok, this is it..... my final comments on this matter.

hardbag, read your post. your comments were well written and well put.

havanaman, same goes for your post as well. i will make some brief responses to the points that you made.

1. to define what is a ****, you have to define what is a child. i had sex with a fair number of 13 and 14 yr old girls..... when i myself was still a teenager. does that make me a ****? no, i don't think so. so, where does one draw the line....how young is too young, how much of an age gap is too much? all i can say is, we have a one-size-fits-all law when each case is different.

2. again, a one-size-fits-all law. however the law is the law......... and if someone does't like it, they can do what they like. they're the ones who will pay if and when they get caught.

3. definitely did that. now she's paying for it.

4. yep!

5. this is a tough one. in general isg members are probably all law-breakers... at least the ones living in the us. so, while we are supposed to follow the law(regarding prostitution), many of us don't.

6. no argument here. for the first statement anyways.

7. i never intended to offer any kind of defence for debra l. what i did say, was that there is a difference and that the so-called double standard exists for a reason.

8. she did break the law..... but there's no way she's going to "burn for it". the fact that she is exceptionally attractive, plus it was an older woman/teenage boy will likely limit her punishment to probation or some other slap on the wrist. that being said, people who have jobs where they work with young people (teens or children) should be held to a higher standard. schools should be places of education, not pick-up joints.

9. enough already..... exactly.

i just want to state one last time, for the record, i'm not trying to make any excuse or defence for any of these people. most impressive that we managed to discuss such a sensitive, politically charged topic in an intellectual fashion. not so much as one insult or accusation. well done!

rock

[QUOTE=Havanaman]

9. Enough already…

Regards, Havanaman[/QUOTE]
That certainly does limit any response.

"We are all equally required to follow the law. This applies as much to issues on this site as to anywhere else."

Funny thing, just last Monday I saw literally millions of self-confessed law breakers mugging for the cameras. No arrests. A few years back I was one of millions of lawbreakers almost every day when I drove 56 mph. I'm afraid I just don't feel guilty about it. Laws are often arbitrary. They're certainly enforced arbitrarily. Some people see this as a reason to revisit the assumptions that led to the law.

"It’s self evident that a 14-year-old male child will have raging hormones and would possibly enjoy the experience. ... it’s pathetic, discounting ... the possibility of psychological damage and indeed mental trauma."

Well, once you've bought into the premise that sex is evil, vile, sinful, shameful and the work of the devil, we sure wouldn't want anyone enjoying the experience. If, for just a moment, you could rise above your puritanical baggage, you just might be able to identify how much of your fire and brimstone predictions are based on those assumptions. Isn't this where, if he were masturbating, you tell us about "the possibility" of going blind, hairy palms, or indeed mental trauma?

It always fascinates me when someone argues that lawyers and politicians can improve on biology.

I won't comment on the personal attacks.

[quote=hardbarg]that certainly does limit any response.

"we are all equally required to follow the law. this applies as much to issues on this site as to anywhere else."

funny thing, just last monday i saw literally millions of self-confessed law breakers mugging for the cameras. no arrests. a few years back i was one of millions of lawbreakers almost every day when i drove 56 mph. i'm afraid i just don't feel guilty about it. laws are often arbitrary. they're certainly enforced arbitrarily. some people see this as a reason to revisit the assumptions that led to the law.

"it’s self evident that a 14-year-old male child will have raging hormones and would possibly enjoy the experience. ... it’s pathetic, discounting ... the possibility of psychological damage and indeed mental trauma."

well, once you've bought into the premise that sex is evil, vile, sinful, shameful and the work of the devil, we sure wouldn't want anyone enjoying the experience. if, for just a moment, you could rise above your puritanical baggage, you just might be able to identify how much of your fire and brimstone morality is based on those assumptions.

it always fascinates me when someone argues that lawyers and politicians can improve on biology.

i won't comment on the personal attacks.[/quote]


it is blatantly clear that in any democracy to campaign for law change is a given. many millions will break laws together when there is a common agreement, of the resident majority, that a particular law is either too stringent or not needed. who can forget the marches against vietnam; who can forget the marches for the c.r.m and the like. has anyone heard about a march or protest to decrease the age of heterosexual sexual consent below the age of the agreed “minor/ child”? never. certainly “not in my name…”. to even compare a driving speed limit protest to this issue is ……... to even approach such an absurd and distasteful comparator is abhorrent, speaking volumes about such “would bees…”

[b]apart from yourself “hardbarg” who introduced the “premise that sex is evil, vile, sinful, shameful and the work of the devil”? no one…..[/b] certainly not me, and i certainly have not now or at any time “bought into that premis”. what’s your hang-up? just let it go. i am just about the biggest unbeliever breathing. i see so much suffering on the table and no redemption when a patient is discharged, shit man, i can prove there is no god and certainly no devil…. for me big daddy, the kid and spooky are just thumbscrews to control the masses, same as with the non-johnson bearded gentleman who parted the waters and the same goes for the turban wearing desert camel trader. [b]“puritanical baggage” along with “your fire and brimstone morality” would seem to be your “cross” [/b]lol

by the way hardbarg, if your going to quote me, have the decency to quote me fully: once you hit the quote button, there is no real need to edit my comments to suit…

[b][red] are we reading of the same “hymn sheet” here: who “argued that lawyers and politicians can improve on biology” for christsake? lol[/red][/b]

regards,

havanaman

where to start.

> “if your going to quote me, have the decency to quote me fully”

you’re pretty verbose, and hard to keep on point. cutting through the emotionalism to introduce some logic requires editing.

> "we are all equally required to follow the law. this applies as much to issues on this site as to anywhere else."

i’ll try again. you seem to like making dictatorial statements, and expect absolute agreement. unfortunately, as in this case, your statements aren’t exactly true. i just gave some examples. your lecture on democracy (once again off point) shows how you do go on when your pronouncements are not accepted unquestioningly.

> “apart from yourself “hardbarg” who introduced the ‘premise that sex is evil, vile, sinful, shameful and the work of the devil’? ... i can prove there is no god and certainly no devil"

well you got me there, sorta. i could say that “work of the devil” is a figure of speech, but, since it seems to bother you so much, i’ll admit there is no direct evidence of your religious beliefs.

that just leaves evil, vile, sinful, and shameful. everything you say reeks of your demonization of sex. otherwise, how do you get from the young man in question enjoying the experience of having sex with a beautiful young woman (you admitted to that) to mental trauma. i shudder to think of the irreparable damage that would have been done to him if they had shared a pizza.

> “puritanical baggage” along with “your fire and brimstone morality” would seem to be your “cross”

once again, figures of speech, but in this case i would say they correctly convey the sense of your attitudes.

btw, if you’re going to quote me, have the decency to quote me correctly. it's “fire and brimstone predictions.”

> “who ‘argued that lawyers and politicians can improve on biology’ for christsake?”

uh, you did. there’s that problem with logic again. let me take you through this step by step.

in my original post i discussed the unequivocal demarcation between a child and a sexually mature human being as determined by physical changes in our species. in fact, it was the very first thing i said. that’s the biology part.

in your reply, your long, condescending, lecture on the definition of a child uses the terms “law”, “legal” and similar, more than a dozen times (i stopped counting). for example: “the law clearly states when a young human is a child and when he / she is not.” that’s the lawyer and politician part.

maybe there was, in fact, no point to your post, but i was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

xoxoxox,
hb

I usually don't quote my own posts but,

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
I just want to state one last time, for the record, I'm not trying to make any excuse or defence for any of these people. MOST impressive that we managed to discuss such a sensitive, politically charged topic in an intellectual fashion. Not so much as one insult or accusation. Well done!

Rock[/QUOTE]

I guess I spoke too soon.....ouch! Guys, please!

Rock

The main reason American women are they way they are is because of our extreme prosperity, by far no country on Earth could match America's wealth, I have noticed a lower standard of living even in the richer Euro countries compared to the USA. I am person who has traveled to every corner of the Earth, there is no better country in the world for someone to earn a living than the USA. That being said, since guys who make a 100K a year a dime a dozen in the US, most women will take many things for granted, and the bar is raised to a very high level in the USA. If you have your shit together, a good job(Doctor, Lawyer, Banker, etc.), decent looking, etc. you can definitely score in the USA without a lot of trouble, the real issue is keeping a an LTR. Women in a lot of other countries will also demand something better than the average schmo, Europe, SA, Asia, Africa, etc. When I go to Europe, simply being a Yank increased my social standing considerably, and therefore I get more pussy because I become an alpha male. So the best thing is to take advantage of the US economic engine, and stake something abroad.Women want a mate that will increase their chances of survival, so they are going to look for the best mate they can find.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]The main reason American women are they way they are is because of our extreme prosperity, by far no country on Earth could match America's wealth, I have noticed a lower standard of living even in the richer Euro countries compared to the USA. I am person who has traveled to every corner of the Earth, there is no better country in the world for someone to earn a living than the USA. That being said, since guys who make a 100K a year a dime a dozen in the US, most women will take many things for granted, and the bar is raised to a very high level in the USA. If you have your shit together, a good job(Doctor, Lawyer, Banker, etc.), decent looking, etc. you can definitely score in the USA without a lot of trouble, the real issue is keeping a an LTR. Women in a lot of other countries will also demand something better than the average schmo, Europe, SA, Asia, Africa, etc. When I go to Europe, simply being a Yank increased my social standing considerably, and therefore I get more pussy because I become an alpha male. So the best thing is to take advantage of the US economic engine, and stake something abroad.Women want a mate that will increase their chances of survival, so they are going to look for the best mate they can find.[/QUOTE]

Myth: The U.S. has the world's highest standard of living.

Fact: By a great many important measures, it doesn't.

The U.S. has the highest productivity per worker in the world. But how Americans spend that productivity is another matter entirely. Working with slightly less, the other rich nations of the world have built clearly better societies: better health and vital statistics, universal health coverage, smaller health costs, less violent crime, less pollution, higher home ownership, more democratic participation, greater social programs, less government corruption, less teenage sex, fewer teenage pregnancies, fewer abortions, larger middle classes, less poverty, less child poverty, greater savings, greater investment, less debt? the list goes on and on.

Here's a comparison between the U.S. and other Rich Nations [url]http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/8Comparison.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]That being said, since guys who make a 100K a year a dime a dozen in the US[/quote] Possibly in New York, or biggest cities in the U.S. On the other hand, cost of living it much higher too, so 100K is nothing to write home about. Been there, seen that. $100K a year is [b]rare[/b] anywhere else in the U.S. For instance, my car insurance in California was about 10 times more than in the Netherlands. Why the heck do I see so much poverty in the U.S if guys making 100K a year are "a dime a dozen"?

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]When I go to Europe, simply being a Yank increased my social standing considerably, and therefore I get more pussy because I become an alpha male.[/QUOTE] Increased, compared to what? Don't flatter yourself. Just because you apparently get totally ignored by AW, but get some attention in Europe doesn't mean you stand out. EW are perhaps friendlier than AW. Don't jump to conclusions.

Rock Dog, hardbarg et al.,

From my side, it ends here. I’m bored with the whole thing.

I know what I said. I know what others have said: anyone interested can see the record and judge for themselves.

We all know that Debra Lafave is an adult: fact.

Debra Lafave broke the law: fact.

Debra Lafave sexually abused a minor: fact.

Debra Lafave’s name has been added to the (USA) National Sexual Offenders Register: fact.

For her multiple sexual abuse crimes she will have a punishment: fact.

I’m not a Lawyer, I’m a Doctor. As such I am not qualified to pass legal judgment on her. My hope would be that she be treated like any other paedophile.

My lack of religious beliefs, expressed in my previous post, should indemnify me from morality based judgements, specifically as I am defending against the actions of a self confessed child abuser who did it because "it wasn't allowed"….

In all honesty it baffles me that anyone can offer a defence towards someone who sexually abused a child.

I stand by my beliefs that a child is a child when the law says it is so, and not based on the value judgments around the degree of physical maturity.

Regards, Havanaman

Also.....

What's so great about having "the highest standard of living"? What's so great about it if it means you have to make a six figure income just to live decently? What's so great about it if it turns 90% of the women into spoiled b*tches? What's so great about it if it causes two thirds of the population to be fat or obese?

I, for one, submit that there are many benefits from living in a country where the standard of living is LOWER. Your money goes a lot farther, the women are better looking and easier to get. People generally are more grateful for what they DO have, instead of being obsessed with buying more stupid shit that they don't need so they can look like they've got more money than they really do.

If the US is so great, how come so many guys expatriate? CBGB, you yourself are a prime example..... you went to Australia and have made numerous positive comments about that country. Last time I checked, the US was ahead of AUS. by a fair bit.

The truth is, different things are important to different people. A lot of the things that make the US (and Canada) great to a lot of people, make them fairly annoying to me.... as in fat, demanding women, rat race etc.

Rock

Rock,

Over the last 25 years, I have lived in and mongered in, a large number of countries from the USA (NY & FL); Europe (Paris, Germany before and after the wall, Austria, England, Spain); S. America (Argentina, BA: where I spent some time and mongered with Saint & Jackson himself! Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile). Cuba in the Caribbean and also in Ukraine (Kiev and Donetsk before & after the fall of communism and the great divide). I site all this in the conclusion that I agree with your comments from personal experience.

Wherever the so called standard of living has been lower, the mongering / chicas for me have been of a higher standard. This may be due to the $$ factor of course as far as mongering is concerned, but when one has lived in such places and developed GF relationships the same holds true. In such places I have also not experienced any negative / criminal offences whilst mongering. As a comparator, I have only ever been swindled twice: both times in the USA and both times by “working girls”.

I must add that of the 3 American GFs I have had, all were worth it. I enjoyed the experiences and with the exception of the most recent one (we parted badly) I’m still in contact with them on a friendly and professional (work) basis.

Something is happening to the physical-makeup of American women! You are so right about the FAT. I was in NY again recently and saw that regardless of the sliming message, the availability of everything form surgery to pills has made no impact on the average AW’s girth. My heart goes out to my American friends having to mount such “porkers”: I’m wondering if male “taste” will change to keep pace with the increasing size. An average snapshot in Europe, indeed even in S. America shows slim chicas who look after themselves.

Has the average American women just given up?

Regards, Havanaman

Havanaman,

We've got our fair share of porkers this side of the border as well. But it's more than that. I've been to Cuba, Zambia, Vietnam and Mexico. I've also been to England and have travelled all over the States. It seems like things, life in general, somehow make more sense in these other countries.

I've talked about this with friends and people that I know, but it's only the ones who've gone travelling themselves that seem to understand what I'm getting at. Sure, we've got lots of STUFF. There's no better place to get educated and you have the opportunity to make money. But we've traded away something for all this stuff.

People here are so uptight! Rules and regulations roping me in and tying me down. It's like nobody can take a joke anymore and everyone is so busy trying to get ahead...... everything is one big competition. I remember something I saw during my trip to Cienfuegos in Cuba. There was this guy on a little motorcycle..... not much more than a scooter. He had a busted headlight, not one, but TWO passengers.... and the girl sitting behind him was carrying a bottle of rum. It was GREAT! Nobody gave a hoot, it was no big deal and no harm done. Back here, he would have been busted so many times over.

I think that's the point I'm trying to make. After the so-called "standard of living" gets to a certain point, people seem to lose touch with reality. We get all uptight about every little detail. Nothing is ever good enough, or safe enough. We gain materially, but we lose out socially, personally.... maybe even spiritually whatever it means.

That's why so many women are b*tches. They get caught up in this ratrace competition and it's fucked them up big time. Not all of them, but a lot of them. From their viewpoint, most men probably aren't much of a prize either.

Rock

Havanaman:

You wrote: "Has the average American women just given up?"

Thats been my theory for years... I really wonder if these women are so full of self-hate or perhaps just indifference that they have just given up. They blame much of their unhappiness on a societal perception of beauty characterized by slim women... yet are incapable of eating normally or getting a mild bit of exercise themselves.

I really feel sorry for them sometimes... unless they have attitude, in which case I just think "what comes around goes around".

RD:

"There was this guy on a little motorcycle..... not much more than a scooter. He had a busted headlight, not one, but TWO passengers.... and the girl sitting behind him was carrying a bottle of rum. "

Now that's the good life... and he didnt need a 401K or an SUV to find it.

I agree with you totally that quality of life is equally or more important than standard of living. Its something that we as Americans should observe more closely, as I feel we are slowly but surely surrendering our quality of life in pursuit of faux security i.e. $$$.

I've been to high class bars with $15 beer, restaurants where the appetizers run $100 and nightclubs where I stuffed $200 into various g-strings in the course of an hour... those were all great memories... but equally great are memories drinking (not even)$1 Singha beer in a Bangkok back alley with a Nana Plaza bargirl and her friends, dancing the night away with cute Russian girls in a grimy student bar eating dried salty fish and drinking cheap local cognac, or cuddling up with a local cutie on a Bulgarian beach watching the sun come up after a night dancing in a local disco that will never make a Lonely Planet guide or anybody's "What's Hot" list. .... and I havent even been to South America and its low-key high-reward lifestyle, imagine what I could find there.... happiness is where you find it and where you make it. I am always impressed by the ability of people in second and third world nations to really enjoy life despite the fact they'll never own a plasma tv...

... come to think of it, we the international monger, should be damn happy we can have the best of both worlds.

Doctor_Skank

My own conclusion is the same.

On my recent NY trip (work related) I saw a number of AW who were so gross that I actually avoided looking at them. Please don’t get me wrong: I’m referring to their physical shapes rather than them as people. Actually in all such cases I would have to say that these women were actually OK looking when one looked at the face, but “porkers” in the rest of the body ~ lets say average looking MILF-type women who never walked more than 50m a day! In one case I actually felt nauseous when I saw the uterine-apron waddle. The best case for abdominoplasty I have seen this year! Combining this “giving up” with a bad attitude makes for a lonely spinster. I guess the USA population dynamic will be affected by this in the long run.

I don’t live in the states and so would ask you: is this “giving-up” something that is learned by migrants also? I mean to say does this argument apply equally to new residence after a few years? Does the classic pair shape Hispanic chica arse turn into a sac of doughnuts? Give me rice & beans any day of the week!

Rock:

I really enjoyed your bike-rider analogy. I have seen it and similar so many times now that it bought a smile to my face. The simplicity of life has been “rat-raced” somewhere along the line. I think that we have been manipulated into having bought into the idea of “better than next door…” as a general rule of life. So (in the immortal words of Chuck Palahnuik of Fight Club fame): “an entire generation pumping gas and waiting tables; or they're slaves with white collars. Advertisements have them chasing cars and clothes, working jobs they hate so they can buy shit they don't need. We are the middle children of history, with no purpose or place. We have no great war, or great depression. The great war is a spiritual war. The great depression is our lives. We were raised by television to believe that we'd be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars -- but we won't”. Is the race to beat “next door” responsible for the AW attitude? Certainly not the AW average shape these days…

Is the answer to find some hide away island and teach English to the locals as a job, working for $1 per hour and being happy? Actually this thought really attracts me, and one day I may sell up and do just that….maybe as part of an early retirement plan. I agree that we need money / credit of some kind to survive, but it’s the “race” which not only belittles the quality of life, it actually reduces its longevity!

Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Havanaman]On my recent NY trip (work related) I saw a number of AW who were so gross that I actually avoided looking at them. Please don’t get me wrong: I’m referring to their physical shapes rather than them as people. Actually in all such cases I would have to say that these women were actually OK looking when one looked at the face, but “porkers” in the rest of the body.[/QUOTE]Obesity is very much a socio-economic problem in the USA, and elsewhere I guess. Spending most time in San Francisco and San Jose, I have to admit there are quite few abnormally overweighted women. Have you guys noticed regional differences thoughout the USA?

Havanaman:
If you'd just walked away without the parting cheap shot I would have been happy to drop this. Now you've got some explaining to do.

I didn't pursue this before, because Rock Dog brought it up. You've had a chance to respond, but of course you chose to ignore it.

By your own admission, you've engaged prostitutes in circumstances where it was illegal. So, does "the law is the law" apply to everyone except you, or is it that sex is illicit only when you say it is. Time to turn yourself in.

Leeuwen,

The socio-economic problems in the USA and elsewhere being responsible for obesity is a good argument and I think represents the majority of the case. However I would question why a person, a woman no less, and of course for this thread an AW, would allow obesity to take hold. Walking a few extra paces a day would be enough to stave off fat build up. I recall reading a few years ago in a journal that some obese people walk less than a couple of hundred steps a day!

The quality of life argument comes into play again. We park our cars as close to the destination as possible, we delight in using the drive through, we eat re-cooked (or should I say re-fried…) fast foods. We have trained our taste buds from childhood to like the least healthiest fats (trans…) and to expect a lot of salt. However, I think that in the case of the classic “AW” as being discussed throughout this section, there is more than just the dietary issue explaining the obesity. Doctor_Skank brought up the “attitude” issue and a number of others have pointed to the money issue. I wish I had done more psychology!

I really like your question about obesity regional differences throughout the USA. A straw poll would be quite enlightening. From my own observations in Europe I can tell you that Germany and the U.K. are the fat capitals.

Regards, Havanaman

Leeuwan,

Traditionally the midwest and the south are the fat capitals of the USA, however I think this phenomenon applies to most every region by now. Also, city people tend to be less fat than country people, probably because city people have more active lifestyles by necessity. More walking, less time to eat.

The midwest, essentially rural, agricultural areas, always had a traditionally calorie-rich environment. Farmer would eat a huge breakfast, a light lunch and a large dinner. He of course managed to work all the calories off in the course of his 14-16 hour work day. The menu hasnt changed much, except for perhaps now including a larger lunch and even unhealthier foods, however the work day has. Average work day is now 8 hours, the majority of which is spent on sitting on one's ass. Much of the midwest lives fairly isolated and travel by car is a necessity rather than merely a convenience. And life is boring in the midwest. Many many people eat simply because they are bored and there isnt much to do except watch TV and eat.

The south is the capital of fried foods and people love to eat in the south. Its too hot outside to do much physical work, so people tend to stay indoors and in air-conditioned cars.

The obesity phenomenon has spread to much of Europe and Asia already, and eastern Europe will likely soon follow suit. With prosperity, comes obesity.

Thankfully, health awareness is higher in Europe than in the US, but especially the younger European generations are adopting some terrible eating and lifestyle habits. Young Germans for example are not obese, but they certainly are getting fatter.

I personally dont care if someone is fat as long as they are happy and understand why they are fat. What I dont like are fat girls who complain that society made them fat or that society only celebrates the thin and fit.

My issue with the subject is one of self-respect. If you cant control your eating habits to the extent that you are at a weight that is comfortable for you emotionally and physically, then you need to have more self-respect. I particularly feel sorry for fat kids who really didnt know any better and whose parents didnt exercise their parental duty and teach their child to live and eat in a healthy fashion.

Havanaman:

My favorite Fight Club line is the one about self-improvement (in the form of getting fit) being masturbation... :)

Leuween is a very funny, a few years ago, I actually turned down a job offer in his home country of the Netherlands because it paid one third of my US salary. Obesity is a big problem in the US but the problem is just as severe in many Western European nations, Australia and NZ, and Canada as well. Having met people from many third world countries I would not make the assertion that people from these countries are happy, it is true that people from these places are more easily pleased than those from first world countries, but this pattern seems to occur when you go from the US to a less wealthy place, its a lot easier for me to please Euro women than Americans and I am sure this has something to do with money. Look at the Middle East.

Doctor_Skank

I prefer to be masturbated than to masturbate…. The soft hands of a Latino chica, than the sausage fingers of an AW! I’m getting fitter, but I’m not “carved out of wood” yet….

The argument for self-respect you presented goes a long way to help explain obesity IMHO. However, “people eating simply because they are bored” is a new one on me. The USA health bill is going to go into the stratosphere in the next few years as the increasing numbers of obese start to present their visceral-fat associated symptoms… T2 diabetes, CV problems, sexual health problems… etc. I guess this is going to be a (negative)-positive feedback loop: obesity causing the aforementioned dysfunctions, resulting in suffering and depression, resulting in more eating as compensatory / comfort behaviour (even boredom?)…. That’s so very sad.

Do you think that there is a realisation by AW that being an “oversize” AW is putting males off?

CBGBConnisur:

I agree with your assertions. Its so much easier to please and indeed pleasure European women (and also Latino women) than American Women.


Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Havanaman]
The argument for self-respect you presented goes a long way to help explain obesity IMHO. However, “people eating simply because they are bored” is a new one on me. I guess this is going to be a (negative)-positive feedback loop: obesity causing the aforementioned dysfunctions, resulting in suffering and depression, resulting in more eating as compensatory / comfort behaviour (even boredom?)…. That’s so very sad.
Regards, Havanaman[/QUOTE]

Sad, but very true. I had former colleagues who worked in the health field. Some investigated obesity, its causes, and cures. One of the causes was the need for emotional comforting. We, (humans), love fat and sugar because they were very hard to come by as we evolved. When we eat them we feel very good. We we are upset or feel depressed or sad, eating foods with fat and sugar raise our spirits.

I remember Louie Anderson, an obese comic, discussing his autobiography. Everyone in his family is obese. Why? Because, according to him, his father was abusive and he, his mother, and siblings, used food as a reward for putting up with that abuse. Many food companies market their products as "fun" foods, or foods to eat when one is upset. I remember seeing an ice cream brand commercial a years back featuring an attractive woman eating ice cream after breaking up with a man.

So how does my previous post relate to AW's? This is my theory.

Women eat "comfort foods" to change their mood. The issue is why do so many women in the US need to have their moods changed by so much. After having mongered in LA for the past several years, I believe that the sexual repression of AW here in the US leads many of them to feel low, blue, bad, or otherwise less than content and happy. They, as all of us humans, need regular sexual/intimate contact and fulfillment, but don't get enough of it due to societal or personal restrictions. Either without understanding it or refusing to understand it, these women prefer to make themselves feel better by eating "comfort foods" rather than by doing what is necessary to get a more fulfilling sex life.

What do AWs need to do to develop better sex lives? I believe one main thing is to change attitudes about men. So long as we men are viewed as enemies, adversaries, or competitors, women will never feel enough positive things towards us for them to succeed to attracting good men or in lowering their defenses enough to allow a man to love them. It is a vicious circle since the more a woman feels antagonism towards men, the less quality sex/intimacy she gets, then the worse she feels and the more she eats. That leads to geater difficulty in attracting good men and the cycle continues.

This is no conspiracy theory, but a general question - Is there something wrong with the food in the USA? We can safely skip McDonalds and its alikes, as I'm not talking about junk food. Friends of mine in California, both Europeans and Americans, are very much into the so called [i]organic food[/i]. At first, I assumed it was yet one of those marketing buzzwords like [i]all natural[/i]. Then a German guy told me he gained 10kg after 12 moths in California. He assured he worked out as much as in Europe, and didn't change his diet. Few days later, I referred to the German guy's experience at an international dinner. To my big surprise, this did little impression on the gathered dinner guests, like as if it was completely natural to gain weight when in America. So I decided to investigate, and found out that many of attenders rather than buying food in ordinary grocery stores like Safeway, went to places like Slow Food or Planet Organics. Due to media hype? Lastest cool diet to catch up with (low carb, Atkins, etc)? I would like to emphasize they were not fat, just gained few kilos extra.

Personally, I'm sushi lover (no pun intended), and consume relatively small amounts of red meat, but like the others gained weight. By today, plenty of Europeans and some Japanese confirmed their weight increased upon arrival to California.

Recently, sitting and flipping through a magazine, I read about the powerful [i]sugar lobby[/i]. Apparently there are reps from sugar producers lobbying in Washington DC for adding excessive amounts of sugar, and sort of get consumers addicted to sweet taste. I recall rumors, later proven facts, from tobacco industry, which added an addictive substance to cigaretts. The question is whether some artificial food preservatives affect people's weight. We concluded obesity being a socio-economic issue, but how does one explain general weight gain among social groups with strong understanding of physical activity and calorie intake?

[quote=CBGBConnisur]Leuween is a very funny, a few years ago, I actually turned down a job offer in his home country of the Netherlands because it paid one third of my US salary. Obesity is a big problem in the US but the problem is just as severe in many Western European nations, Australia and NZ, and Canada as well.[/quote]Apparently Dutch employers don't value your professional skills as high as American employers ;)

Obesity is as severe in W.Europe as in the USA? I strongly disagree. Study 'average weight' statistics and you will see.

[quote=george90]what do aws need to do to develop better sex lives? i believe one main thing is to change attitudes about men. so long as we men are viewed as enemies, adversaries, or competitors, women will never feel enough positive things towards us for them to succeed to attracting good men or in lowering their defenses enough to allow a man to love them.quote]as i have been reading this thread i have been thinking along these lines.

a few months ago i spent some time in a new city and to make for a better time i put an ad on match.com and tried to go out with some of the local women. i was surprised at how rude and antagonistic these women were, but more than that i couldn't believe how arrogant and stuck up they were for being fat, unintelligent, and below my standards. i ended up telling one girl to her face to go fuck herself.

women in america have convinced themselves they are the prize, but it's only a function of the illegality of prostitution and the collusion of media and academia constantly preaching how men are stupid and evil. they know that the average american man has no choice but put up with her b.s. if he wants some pussy. that might seem good for women, but it's not.

i think modern pornography reflects a backlash against american women. after college it becomes difficult to meet women, and since women are so full of themselves men choose porn and masturbation over wasting time and money on trying to meet a nice woman. the billions of dollars spent on porn in america every year isn't being spent by men getting laid on a regular basis.

more evidence of backlash is the violence toward women in modern porn. today much porn is nothing more than sexual abuse, with women being choked, gagged, beaten, gang-raped, urinated on, and more. this isn't really sex, is it? why would a man want to see a woman treated this way? porn wasn't like this 10 or 20 years ago. is it possible it's a reaction to the way women treat men now? is this really what women want? lets hear oprah have a show about this.

i've gotten to the point where i don't even entertain the fantasy now of meeting a good woman for a relationship. i'll pick up drunk chicks for one night stands, but my ability to tolerate the attitude of modern american women has been extinguished.

I remember reading a few years ago about Japanese men emigrating to the US. There were two groups studied. One group had emigrated to California and the other to Hawaii. The Cali-bound men gained more fat-bound weight than the Hawaiian ones. If I remember correctly, the author theorised that since the Hawaiian-bound males maintained a lifestyle CLOSER to what they had experienced in Japan than the Cali-bound males, they gained less weight and were generally healthier. A change of lifestyle, locale and the types and amounts of foods may well be the culprit.

Also, Doc, you nailed it when you said that many women (and men too) eat 'cos they're bored. When you don't have time to be bored, the weight will fall off. Case in point is when I went to basic training. I had EVERY MINUTE of the day accounted for FOR ME, and they ran my ass RAGGED. By the time I got out of basic, my clothes were almost FALLING off me.

There is nothing different about the food. The way of life in California compared to Germany is quite different. I travel to Germany frequently and I often use public transportation heavily. Food portions in Germany tend to be smaller than in the USA, there are also a lot of alternative foods, usually Turkish, in Germany compared to the USA. I know many people in the USA including myself who keep reasonably fit, in fact whenever I go to Europe people usually think I am 25 even though I am really 35.

It's more than just physical attraction.

I've found that most girls/women overrate themselves in every conceivable way. They invariably think of themselves as being more cheerful, intelligent, funny, hard-working, creative and (ironically)modest than average. Obviously, everyone can't be above average, but there you have it.

It's a kind of split from reality. Most women, and guys too, like to think of themselves the way they WISH they could be. Then they try and come across like that's how they really are, hoping it will somehow alter the way others perceive them. This could explain why women over-rate their appearance, why they spend so much on makeup and clothes. It's why people in general blow cash on useless crap if they think it will make them look young or "cool".

Just my theory,

Rock

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]I remember reading a few years ago about Japanese men emigrating to the US. There were two groups studied. One group had emigrated to California and the other to Hawaii.[/QUOTE]Indeed, I remember that study. The goal was to examine whether the humans were genetically prone to develope cardiovascular diseases, or if food and enviroment played greater role. Since Japan was among nations with least rates of cardiovascular diseases, the study focused on Japanese living in Japan, and Japanese living in the USA. Needless to say there was no difference from that perspective between average Americans and Japanese living in America.

What the study did not take into account, was the fact that majority of foreigners, other than Japanese, did gain weight while not changing diet nor daily routines.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]There is nothing different about the food. [/QUOTE]

I strongly disagree. US food is VERY different from food in other partsof the world, especially meat. We monger abroad don't we? We eat abroad, don't we? Haven't we noticed the difference in the food in Colombia, Dominican Republic, Philipines, etc. compared to here in the US?

I like to monger in Brazil. The food there is orders of magnitude of higher quality than here, AND way less expensive. Meat is lean AND tender. Fresh fruit and vegetables are plentiful and inexpensive, (sometimes dirt cheap). The main difference is that food in those places (developing countries) is not grown with who knows what kind of fertilizers, and cattle, pigs, chickens, etc, is raised without who knows what kinds of hormones to make them grow faster and fatter.

Nutritionists have documented that the hormones given to animals makes its way into our bodies and affects us. The age of menarch for girls (first menstrual period) has fallen steadily for several decades. Some of this fall is attributed to the effect of growth hormones in our food. Some psychologists believe that the epidemic of ADHD in boys is partly due to the hormones and chemical additives in our food.

[QUOTE=Elberto]I've gotten to the point where I don't even entertain the fantasy now of meeting a good woman for a relationship. I'll pick up drunk chicks for one night stands, but my ability to tolerate the attitude of modern American women has been extinguished.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the club, Alberto! Many of us are looking abroad for wives, in addition to short-term pussy. There are many agencies and dating sites that cater to international tastes. We can discuss some of them here or in the other thread for that.

In Japan, traditionally at least, the food doesn't have the ultra-gargantuan fat content that the US of A has. Except for Sumo, people don't eat like they are at a trough, either.

To digress... today I was at lunch and I saw 4 AW's who were probably 10-15 years older than me and they pulled off something that FEW women if any were able to do: they were able to make me ASHAMED I'm American IN MY OWN COUNTRY. This particular hotel always has a buffet at lunch time. The first broad EMPHATICALLY declared that she wanted a hamburger (medium done, no pink in the middle, with AMERICAN cheese, she stated firmly) and fries. My thought is: "Damn you sow, the LAST thing you need is to eat such food!" The NEXT broad joins her at the table and says to the waiter: "Please give me a menu, because you have NOTHING anybody would want in the buffet", even though there were at least TWENTY people or more around her eating the very same food she turned up her nose at. I thought to myself: "Why are these COWS complaining when all they have to do is LEAVE and find a place where the food is to their liking"? The scene reminded me of all the times I've witnessed the "Ugly American" when overseas. If it came down to the choice of being a monk for the rest of my days or fucking any one of them, I'd be wearing a robe and in deep meditation.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]There is nothing different about the food.[/quote]The bare fact that GMO has become mainstream in the U.S while still being highly controversial in EU is proof that the food is not the same. If the food industry can shove GMO down your throat, why wouldn't it be extra generous with fishy preservatives? You don't see the [i]organic food[/i] hype in Europe, but again, it has become way of life among health conscious consumers in America. You think they pay premium for pure joy of spending more money than necessary? I don't.
[quote=CBGBConnisur] The way of life in California compared to Germany is quite different. I travel to Germany frequently and I often use public transportation heavily.[/quote]I explicitly excluded the obvious differences in lifestyle, and emphasized the fact that foreigners gain weight despite keeping the old daily routines, like diet and working out.

Don't see what public transportation has to do with what we discuss. Sitting on a bus is not going to make you slim.

[quote=CBGBConnisur] I know many people in the USA including myself who keep reasonably fit, in fact whenever I go to Europe people usually think I am 25 even though I am really 35.[/QUOTE]Congratulations, even if I recall someone on this forum reporting from the Czech Republic. His story was exactly the opposite as he claimed he could fool women in the U.S about his age, but not in Europe. Use the search button combined with approperiate terms and you will find the report.

I can assure you that this chick is an idiot. By definition, a piece of red meat is WELL DONE if it is cooked all the way through with no pink.

I've spent a lot of time in the restaurant industry, paying my way through two degrees, and in patches of professional unemployment. The result of this is as a general rule, I have a passionate dislike for people (at least Americans) as a whole....obnoxious, idiotic behavior like Sin is describing is the rule, not the exception.....and it is most often bitches, or married couples (contolled by the *****) acting like that.

By the way, I will only drink organic milk these days. I highly recommend watching "The Corporation" for an explanation...it's so gross, I can't bring myself to explain.

Regarding exaggerated female self perception, I always maintained that it was the result of having their asses pathetically kissed by men desperate for pussy. I've seen a nothing special (thin, but not especially pretty, and definitely weird) in her mid thirties seriously think that she rates a young stud in his mid twenties......she had been a bartender for 15 years, and has had drunk guys trying to fuck her all that time. Here we go with one of my favorite refrains:

American women have a monopoly on pussy...one of the very few in the world....even some fundamentalist Moslem countries have legal brothels.

If the legal penalties, social stigma, and prohibitive expense (this would be the effect of legalization) were removed from prostitution, and men could get sex on demand, gender relations would be a WHOLE new ballgame.

Adding on: This affects the whole of American society. The media kisses women's asses because they make or at least exert substantive influence major buying decisions. Why is this? Because women are better decision makers (aka analytical and logical)? FUCK no! It's because (except in the cases where the decision is beneath the breadwinner's attention-household products etc), women exercise contol over the pussy that men have a biological need for....if you want proof of this, how many guys REALLY want to spend 10K on a new living room set? Or 50K for that big fucking SUV so she can run back and forth to Starbucks, the beauty parlor, and the grocey store ?

If prostitution were legalized, and pussy became reasonably available (overhauling divorce laws would be extremely helpful also), this bullshit would turn on it's head overnight. Of course on the other hand, our materialistic consumer society would probably collapse too but....

While I'm on a tear, I heard my buddy Tom Leykis say something I had entertained as a pet theory for some time. Roughly 25 years ago was when the divorce laws changed right? Many children became fatherless because of this including of course girls. Now, unprescedented scores of girls are fucked up in their sexuality (one manifestation is the current bisexuality craze), due to MOLESTATION from sexual predators. Hmmm could it possibly be that that those ever so competent and capable single mommy's aren't quite so able to handle scaring off sexual predators as their former husbands would have been. Would mommy's friend "Uncle Phil" be quite so brazen in diddling his 12 year old "niece" if he knew her father was around and would beat him to death for that sort of transgression?

B9K

Europeans may think that they are better than Americans yet the American model of life is being quickly adopted by most under 30's in Europe. Waistlines are increasing around the continent, and a study confirmed that countries like France will be just as fat as the USA within 2 decades. Countries like Britain and Ireland are just as fat, actually fatter, than the United States. I recall seeing a Pizza Hut all you can eat buffet the last time I visited Manchester, and waistlines in certain parts of Australia are just as bad, go to Queensland, the most rednecked place on the Earth, NSW where I currently reside isn't too bad but avoid Queensland, WA, South Aus, and NT. In other words all the fun is in Melbourne and Sydney. There are other more serious problems around the planet, the USA is still far and away the most prosperous nation in the world.

HAZARDOUS MATERIALS DATASHEET For AMERICAN WOMEN

ANALYSIS

Element: Woman

Discoverer: Adam

Atomic Mass: Accepted as 55kg, but known to vary from 45kg to 225kg

Occurrence: Found in large quantities in urban areas with trace elements in outlying regions

Physical Properties

1. Surface normally covered with film of powder and paint.

2. Boils at absolutely nothing, freezes for no apparent reason.

3. Melts if given special treatment.

4. Bitter if used incorrectly.

5. Found in various grades ranging from virgin material to common ore.

6. Yields to pressure if expertly applied.

Chemical Properties

1. Affinity to gold, silver, platinum and all precious stones.

2. Absorbs great quantities of expensive substances.

3. Explodes spontaneously without reason or warning.

4. Greatly increased activity when saturated with alcohol.

5. The most powerful money reducing agent known to man.


Common Use

1. Highly ornamental, especially in sports cars.

2. Can be a great aid to relaxation.

3. Can be a very effective cleaning agent.


Tests

1. Pure specimens turn bright pink when found in their natural state.

2. Turns green when placed alongside a superior specimen.


Hazards:

1. Highly dangerous except in experienced hands.

2. Illegal to possess more than one, although several can be maintained at different locations as long as specimens do not come in direct contact with each other.

Country John

That's a Good one, CJ! The description sounds almost like good old U-235! I damn sure wouldn't wanna handle it!

[quote=CBGBConnisur]Europeans may think that they are better than Americans yet the American model of life is being quickly adopted by most under 30's in Europe.[/quote]Dear CBGBConnisur, how about facts for a change instead of personal opinions grabbed out of the air? What's so typical American that Europeans under 30's have adopted? Please, don't say they wear t-shirts or drive cars.

[quote=CBGBConnisur]There are other more serious problems around the planet, the USA is still far and away the most prosperous nation in the world.[/quote] Well, don't know about prosperity taking into account [url=http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm]U.S national debt[/url] of $8,360,179,820,754.65. And this [url=http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/history.gif]small diagram[/url] shows the exponential curve resulting from debt. Add the all-time-high trade deficit, and support buyers of the dollar (Japan and China) [url=http://www.paulvaneeden.com/displayArticle.php?articleId=87]losing patience[/url] and you get the picture. I hope you enjoy living in Australia, which isn't that "prosperous" as the good old US of A.

Leeuwen,

I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about your recent posts is starting to seem awfully familiar. The English is improved but still not quite right. The old confrontational, argumentative tone is starting to re-assert itself.

I also noticed that you've only started posting in this forum on a regular basis since March. It started with 2 or 3 posts spaced a month apart and now you're crankin' them out on a daily basis. I'm really hoping it's not what I think it is..... and that you aren't who I (and Marak5) think you are.

Rock

Rock, Richard Pryor said the ONLY way you can kill ROACHES is 12D

[b]rock dog[/b], the answer is no. i have never posted under other nick than leeuwen and never bothered to investigate marak5's insinuation. you are damn right my posts are argumentative, but always backed up by facts. posting statements filled with superlatives based on personal perception, with no proof or backup is by definition bullshit. so which way do you want it? bullshit or facts?
my opinion is that inaccuracy must be corrected, or else a chain reaction of obfurep001ion, falsification and myths will lead to a world with no place for the truth. ok, this's pretty deep, but nonetheless true.

leeuwen, rock dog,

i like facts, but i would add that personal perception also plays a role in formulating a final conclusion. thanks for adding a new word to my collection (obfurep001ion…).

ohhhhhh, by the way, i think that the usa (under arbusto, than any real president) is an example… of “chain reaction of obfurep001ion, falsification and myths (leading) to a world with no place for the truth….” however i must add that i have met a number of aw’s who fit that bill very well!

regards, havanaman

i just saw an aclu commercial promoting women's rights because, as they said "women and girls still arent seen as equal to men and boys." indeed. men and boys always force/coerce women into performing sexual acts upon them. screw the anglocized world. in the uk, a 15 yr old boy had sex with an 11 yr old girl - both minors. the government authorities are trying to figure out how to apply the law in a way to punish this 15 yr old boy. gotta love westernized manginas.

begin article:
boy, 15, faces [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charge

press association
friday may 12, 2006 2:33 pm

a teenage boy has been charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] after it emerged a 11-year-old girl had become pregnant, police have said.

the 15-year-old is scheduled to appear again on july 10 at edinburgh sheriff court having already made a previous appearance, police said.

it emerged that a west lothian girl, now aged 12, is set to break the record for being the uk's youngest mother.

she told a national newspaper she is "really excited" about having a child after losing her virginity at 11 to a boy aged 15 in edinburgh.

the girl, who has not been named, is due to give birth in a few weeks, breaking the record set by jenny teague, of dorset, who was had a baby aged 12 years and nine months in 1997.

a spokesman for west lothian council said: "we are aware of the situation. we are providing support through our social policy and education teams.

"we are working with the family to support the young person to ensure that the child gets the best possible start."

the mother-to-be told the scottish sun newspaper that she hoped the baby would be a boy.

the girl's 34-year-old mother also said she was proud of her daughter.

[QUOTE=Bart9000] Roughly 25 years ago was when the divorce laws changed right? Many children became fatherless because of this including of course girls. Now, unprescedented scores of girls are fucked up in their sexuality (one manifestation is the current bisexuality craze), due to MOLESTATION from sexual predators. Hmmm could it possibly be that that those ever so competent and capable single mommy's aren't quite so able to handle scaring off sexual predators as their former husbands would have been. Would mommy's friend "Uncle Phil" be quite so brazen in diddling his 12 year old "niece" if he knew her father was around and would beat him to death for that sort of transgression?

B9K[/QUOTE]
Bart, child molestation is more likely to be linked to women's penchant for bad boys. Bad boys have no respect for the law. So whether or not a child is of legal age or even consenting is not something they regard as important. If you check out the news, there are women who live with bad boys who molest their daughters, yet deny the fact the entire time. Or look at the number of letters Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez and the late Ted Bundy got proposing marriage. In fact, I believe that one of the Menendez brothers got married in prison. I believe this is because society has villified masculinity. And women are attracted to masculine men. Overtly women want to quash masculinity by invading every masculine strong hold and feminizing it. For example, invading all male clubs, sports teams and even locker rooms. Once in these environments, women demand that men act more feminine as to not offend the women. So we have an entire society of men who act like women so as not to offend women, but on a purely biological and instinctual level, women want to mate with masculine men. With the lack of real masculine men, women resort to the only alternative they have - Bad boys who are good at emulating masculine traits due to their sociopathic disregard for social norms and laws.

[QUOTE=Tyhigs77]Bart, child molestation is more likely to be linked to women's penchant for bad boys. Bad boys have no respect for the law. So whether or not a child is of legal age or even consenting is not something they regard as important. If you check out the news, there are women who live with bad boys who molest their daughters, yet deny the fact the entire time. Or look at the number of letters Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez and the late Ted Bundy got proposing marriage. In fact, I believe that one of the Menendez brothers got married in prison. I believe this is because society has villified masculinity. And women are attracted to masculine men. Overtly women want to quash masculinity by invading every masculine strong hold and feminizing it. For example, invading all male clubs, sports teams and even locker rooms. Once in these environments, women demand that men act more feminine as to not offend the women. So we have an entire society of men who act like women so as not to offend women, but on a purely biological and instinctual level, women want to mate with masculine men. With the lack of real masculine men, women resort to the only alternative they have - Bad boys who are good at emulating masculine traits due to their sociopathic disregard for social norms and laws.[/QUOTE]


Well......you aren't going to get an argument from me

Used to know this girl.....at 21 she was highly promiscuous (not a bad thing by itself-course she managed to get an std from a local DJ), self destructive, Waaaayyyy into alcoholic abuisive guys who treated her like shit......also, she had a great propensity towards the affectations of childhood (big thing for stuffed animals-this is a sign of sexual abuse)......I was willing, after seeing all this behavior together to believe that she had been molested........never got definitive confirmation, but I found out that she was born when her mother was 18-19.....Mom was a bimbo party girl, and a bartender, and I'm sure that there were all kinds of loser guys through that home throughout the years......finding that scenario, I would have bet good money that little "S"''s cherry got popped around 13 by a 30 year old guy Mom let "sleep it off" at the house while she went to work.....I could be wrong but...


B9K

[QUOTE=Bart9000]Well......you aren't going to get an argument from me

Used to know this girl.....at 21 she was highly promiscuous (not a bad thing by itself-course she managed to get an std from a local DJ), self destructive, Waaaayyyy into alcoholic abuisive guys who treated her like shit......also, she had a great propensity towards the affectations of childhood (big thing for stuffed animals-this is a sign of sexual abuse)......I was willing, after seeing all this behavior together to believe that she had been molested........never got definitive confirmation, but I found out that she was born when her mother was 18-19.....Mom was a bimbo party girl, and a bartender, and I'm sure that there were all kinds of loser guys through that home throughout the years......finding that scenario, I would have bet good money that little "S"''s cherry got popped around 13 by a 30 year old guy Mom let "sleep it off" at the house while she went to work.....I could be wrong but...

B9K[/QUOTE]

I do not think you are wrong. But I do think the problem is more than just women being attracted to bad boys. I read a magazine article on a similar theme that compared the behavior of step-fathers to biological fathers regarding children. The article quoted research stating that step-fathers were something like **15** times more likely to kill their step-children than biological fathers were to kill their biological children. The article went on to question the wisdom of the new "blended family" that is all the rage now. Women have a child with one bad boy. Divorce him and then hook up with another bad boy, who abuses her child, and then hooks up with a third bad boy who kills her child. (In the Miami area there has been a rash of recent killings of children by their parents/care takers.)

The article didn't address molestation. But if step-fathers are so much more likely to kill step-children, then I am sure they are also much more likely to molest step-children.

I am not particularly conservative, but I do strongly believe that where goes the family so follows society. We all know what has been happening to the family in the past 20 years. I pray for our society.

[QUOTE=Leeuwen]The bare fact that GMO has become mainstream in the U.S while still being highly controversial in EU is proof that the food is not the same. If the food industry can shove GMO down your throat, why wouldn't it be extra generous with fishy preservatives? You don't see the [i]organic food[/i] hype in Europe, but again, it has become way of life among health conscious consumers in America. You think they pay premium for pure joy of spending more money than necessary? I don't.
I explicitly excluded the obvious differences in lifestyle, and emphasized the fact that foreigners gain weight despite keeping the old daily routines, like diet and working out.

Don't see what public transportation has to do with what we discuss. Sitting on a bus is not going to make you slim.

Congratulations, even if I recall someone on this forum reporting from the Czech Republic. His story was exactly the opposite as he claimed he could fool women in the U.S about his age, but not in Europe. Use the search button combined with approperiate terms and you will find the report.[/QUOTE]Food production differs from country to country. A simple example can be found on the ingredients label on a simple bottle of ketchup. The principle sweetener in the USA is high-fructose corn syrup, found in many foods.

When I was in England two summers ago, the label on the bottle of ketchup (at the pub I was eating a burger at) said glucose.

High fructose corn syrup has been in use in the USA since, I think sometime in the last 70's or early 80's, when the food industry here switched from beet sugar and cane sugar. So we've had a whole generation raised on this sweetner. Many in the USA who are now young adults, bathed in it in their mother's womb. Some author's implicate high fructose corn syrup in the rising incidence and earlier onset of diabetes (See for example, the book Lights Out, reviewed on Amazon).

There are many differences in practices between countries. Another example: the use of mercury in dental amalgams, in vaccines, even in contact lens solution. When you buy contact lens solution in Germany, is mercury listed as an ingredient? I'll have to see if I can even find the stuff next time I am in Germany.

I'll comment on the stepfather thing later.

Although I am highly progressive, both socially, and economically (I wish someone would explain the "Marginal Propensity to Consume" to the prick in the Whitehouse....very slowly of course), it amuses me at times to look back at the way that things were done in "the old days", and see what fucked up result has been obtained by discarding it.

Back, I don't know, 60-70 years ago, there used to be a social control on women making a decision to give themselves to the kind of guy (high chaos, womanizing, undependable, shiftless, substance abuser, abusive......), that generally makes their little pussies drip wet......suitors were subject to male aproval in the form of the girl's father....if little Johnny was a dirtbag drunk with problems holding down a job, and a hair temper, Mr. Roarick didn't let him within 50 paces of his little Rebecca.


This is a highly mysoginistic statement, but I think there is a high degree of truth to it..women have been historically denied decision making power, presumably because men ruled due to physical superiority. I'm inclined to contend that they were denied the ability to make decisions because they aren't generally very good at it.....making them on the basis of FEELINGS instead of logic and reason.

B9K

These are some (edited) thoughts that I wrote on another discussion board.

I can see that women's brains are fundamentally different from those of men. Women in China seem to be weird in the exact same ways that women in all other countries are. These thoughts came up in a moment of clarity AFTER some of my female students could not believe a statement that I made to the effect of: "If there is some man that is not doing it for you, JUST FIND SOMEONE ELSE. They are fundamentally all the same."

It seems like women want to be wanted after they are MUCH past their prime. So, if you are a man who wants to get his freak on, you'll get it on a lot faster with an older married woman than you will a young girl (say, 22 or 23). What is it that changes in women's minds such that they seem to want to be sought after MORE at a much later age? (I have talked to many women who will actually go to a gay bar to dance so that they will not be hit on. Or a woman give her number to some guy just to have the experience of being sought after-- but who would never really consider the guy.) To me it seems like if you wanted to have all the sex you could get, you would do it while you were younger and able to get the most men. But it doesn't work that way.

Why do women so consistently choose bad men? How many times have I seen some woman pass over dozens of other men to find someone who will only half go to work or will beat her ass on a regular basis? Or has lots of other women or is neglectful? (I remember a conversation with a birdbrain about a girl who had a boyfriend that she said didn't love her-- but who she wanted to try to sway, because she wanted a "challenge." Huh? Huh? Huh?) This seems to be the same way/ equally common in China as in the USA-- and it makes even less sense here since women actually pass over MORE men to choose someone that is bad.

Why is it that women don't say: "Ok, subject to some minimal constraints regarding race/ height/ appearance, they are all the same. One will do pretty much the same as another"? Relationships ALL seem to take the same direction over the longer term-- so it follows to me that you could choose any person and it would be the same result if you chose any one person over another. Most girls don't seem to see it this way. I don't get it.

Good Day, Young Padawans! Clandestine gave the answer probably without realising it. Women want a CHALLENGE. I've heard similar scenarios from many men in conversation and online. I was reading maerial from Doc Love and he stated this EMPHATICALLY.

The following male traits are what makes a woman choose one man over another and STAY with him.

Self-Confidence, Self-Esteem, Discipline, Patience, Self-Control, and CHALLENGE.

A few years ago I read his material cover to cover and it made so much sense then and still does NOW. Back to the trait of "Challenge", think about it: you treasure something you've fought for and EARNED more so than you do something that was given to you FREE OF CHARGE without effort. PLUS women are of the mindset that if it's easy to get, then it's not worth having. I know it sounds fucked up to any upstanding guy who'd make a great husband and father, but how else are you gonna survive in the game?

Consider these words, Young Padawans....

The reason why I feel Europe tends to have a lower standard of living than the US mostly has to do with my interactions with European women on the continent, rarely have I had my wallet emptied quickly with a European woman as what happens when in the company of your average American lady. She doesn't seem to expect as much and often it takes a much smaller amount of effort to impress her. That's part of the problem with a lot of American women, they are used to a very plush standard of living and used to getting what they want. This is not the case with many European women.

....to celebrate the prick in the White House achieving a 29% approval rating. Unless he catches Osama bin laden, or gets gas back down to $1.40, he stands a fighting chance of having the lowest rating of all time.....and that people take it out on his party come the November elections. I console myself while pumping $3.00 a gallon gas that this is just paying a fee to kick the sanctimonious bible thumping, binary brained right wing pricks out of congress and the senate

Being a stepfather is, as I believe Sin put it, the most thankless job on earth, and I absolutely believe the stat's George is citing about them being 15 times more likely to kill a step child. Family life is at times, a pressure cooker, even when you share a bed (with wife), or genetics and biological ties (kids).....In many cases, men are sacrificing their own financial well being to provide a home environment for children who will not be passing his genetics into the future, and often disrespect, hate, barely tolerate....him. It's a bad deal also regarding the molestation thing....with a stepfather, it is almost a cliche. You marry a mother, with an adorable little 9 year old moppet...6 short years later, you have a little big titted sexpot (with again, no biological ties to you) living under the same roof....it happens,

Changing gears, I came to realize something...had heard this previously, but only recently came to REALLY understand it. It is well known that girls from masculine-centric cultures will marry men who are much older, and less physically attractive than they are. It has been generally presumed that this is entirely a money thing. Here is something else however. In Russia, for example, it is a woman's worst nightmare for that sweet boy of 22 she married 20 years ago to drop her cold and throw her to the wolves, so he can take up with a 25 year old. Girls in this type of culture are very aware of this behavior, and in hopes of getting a lifetime committment from her husband, go ahead and marry a guy that she will still be a little dish to in 20 years....a hot MILF of 40 to his 58

B9K

[QUOTE=Bart9000]....
Changing gears, I came to realize something...had heard this previously, but only recently came to REALLY understand it. It is well known that girls from masculine-centric cultures will marry men who are much older, and less physically attractive than they are. It has been generally presumed that this is entirely a money thing. Here is something else however. In Russia, for example, it is a woman's worst nightmare for that sweet boy of 22 she married 20 years ago to drop her cold and throw her to the wolves, so he can take up with a 25 year old. Girls in this type of culture are very aware of this behavior, and in hopes of getting a lifetime committment from her husband, go ahead and marry a guy that she will still be a little dish to in 20 years....a hot MILF of 40 to his 58

B9K[/QUOTE]
Virtuallly all Anglo societies are man hating castrating societies. Look for a place in Asia, Latin America or Eastern/Southern Europe if you want a real woman. Hell, I would even wager the Middle East would be a good place to find a nice wife. Compare French Canada to Anglo Canada. Bush's 29 percent approval rating speaks volumes, anyway Chinese and Indian universities graduate a million new scientists and engineers each year, this is pretty much going to signal a shift of technology and economic supremacy East.

Gentlemen,

Off topic I know but please forgive me.

We are due to have a party this evening, until now it did not have a theme: I’ve just emailed the guests and the theme will be Arbusto’s 29%…. We all need to celebrate this (at last) beginning of the end for Arbusto, the unelected, ex-alcoholic, husband to a wife who killed an innocent human being before she was 18 years old, tyrant, megalomaniac and abuser of freedom "president "… To say nothing of his contribution to making the AW what she is today!

I wonder when my North American brothers (and sisters) will wake up to the harm this Arbusto has done and is doing and will continue to do to them…..

Regards, Havanaman

Sinanju Master,

You THE man of ISG :)...Couldn't agree more...To all american women haters....just read again...what SM has to say about "Challenge" and you will get rid of the american women sickness.

My life has changed since I being reading doc love articles at [url]www.askmen.com[/url] and now just show me any women on this planet earth from american to african to asian and I would make them my slave for ever :)

Instead of you being dragged by american women...I bet with my all heart, that doc love has got the mantra to get rid of our men sickness of women....If I was in america right now, I could have constructed a statue of the man Doc love for saving mine and 100's of lifes...

Really guys...Its time again and again to shift focus and get the solutiuon instead of crying on the problems...

There was a comment a few posts back..... something to do with how women want to be wanted more as they get older. That's an easy one to explain. When do women develop their perceptions of how attractive they are? During their teenage years when boys start going crazy. This also happens to be at the young woman's peak years of physical attractiveness.

As they get older, they get less attractive. I think they start to notice that they just aren't getting as much attention as they used to. So, they start putting out the vibe to see if they've still got it.

CBGB made a comment about anglo societies being man hating and castrating. I think he must have been talking about women's attitudes in those societies. It's true to some degree, but is it because of the society itself, or is it a "spoiling effect" due to the high standard of living found in ALL anglo societies?

One good thing about Bush being re-elected..... he's finally had enough time to show the public his true quality. The 29% approval rating should be enough to keep him from doing any more damage.

Hey, here's a thought. Instant green card for any illegal woman who marries
a US citizen. Think of the hordes of pretty young mexican girls prowling around looking for a guy they could hook up with.

One last thing, BornLoser5, I totally agree with that last line in your post....
Its time again and again to shift focus and get the solutiuon instead of crying on the problems.

Rock

Women (girls) mature faster than young males and are more intuitive about the opposite sex wanting them in (in droves) their formative years. As a result of this headstart on boys, they wield power that few young men can resist. As they mature into young (and VERY HOT) women, they wield that power without restraint. Paraphrasing what Charles Xavier once said: "What good is Power without restraint?". What they fail to realise is that they must FOCUS that power to pair with a mate that will ensure the best circumstances (marriage, family, etc). However, many of them fail to heed "The CLOCK" and when the clock strikes midnight (or very near to it), they realise that they have wasted the best years of their lives to achieve their goal. Now they are attracting less attention from males than in their peak years and they lament the fact that it has come to this, when they had the power to avoid their present situation. For the prowling tiger (my bretheren on this board and many like us) this is like when the great cat spies the herd from a grassy blind and seeks out the less swift prey (the recently turned MILF). The younger and more swift of the herd will alight in an instant and head to "safety' while the now-abandoned MILF makes for a meal.

Another thing I have realised is that straight out physical beauty and sexual experience are inversely related in most cases. I was reading a post by Hanavaman that solidified my understanding on this. The post itself is unimportant, so I won't lead my bretheren on a chase to seek it out, but the idea behind it IS.

GOOD, Young Padawans! Embrace the Force, and Wisdom will seek you out...

The other day I way having a solo lunch at an italian restaraunt. Seating next to me were a couple of attractive ladies in their early 20's. The conversation I overheard only confirmed my wise choice of avoiding marriage when I was in their age range.

The girls were highly titilated because the boyfriend of one of the girls had just proposed marriage. Evidently the proposal had swelled the girl's ego to emmense proportions. She was obviously quite happy to have received the proposal, but it seemed they both deemed to consider the poor guy a fool for asking; and of course he just wasn't good enouph for her. They discussed the matter with such relish and glee, one would have thought they had just pulled off a real whopper of a practical joke on someone. Maybe they had.

It was notable that these paragons of the "gentler" sex had not one jot of compassion or concern, let alone respect, for the soon to be discarded gentleman. He may not understand this for some time, but he is much better off with her rejection. If she had accepted his proposal, then he probably would have been in for what I overheard from another gaggle of twenty something females where one of their number had just accepted a proposal:

This hottie is showing off her engagement ring to 4 or 5 other "ladies." Are these girls talking about LOVE? No. Are they talking about kids? No. Are they talking about the romantic nature of the proposal? No. Are the talking about the man's many fine qualities? No. Are they talking about what the girls family thinks about the marriage? No.

I had not been aware of it, but there is a magic formula that a young American Woman MUST consider when recieving a proposal: The rock on their engagement ring must have a monetary value equal to MINIMUMLY 3 months of the gentleman's income.

Was this what this gaggle of 20 something female hotties gaggling about? YES. Amoung themselves they had estimated the young man's income at about $120K (evidently he was a successfull young salesman) so if this girl was not to get ripped off or taken advantage of by this guy, she needed to have the rock appraised to make sure it was worth $30K.

Yes, nothing better than American Woman. Love them, but for god sakes don't go off and do something foolish like empregnating or marrying one of them.

[QUOTE=Bart9000]This is a highly mysoginistic statement, but I think there is a high degree of truth to it..women have been historically denied decision making power, presumably because men ruled due to physical superiority. I'm inclined to contend that they were denied the ability to make decisions because they aren't generally very good at it.....making them on the basis of FEELINGS instead of logic and reason.
B9K[/QUOTE]

You are correct again. Though again I feel that the history is more complicated. I don't believe that women have been denied decision-making power in all society's throughout history. I believe what happened is that societies experiented with various social and power structures and societal evolution lead to male-dominated societies being more successful.

When the leaders of a society make decision based on feelings insteed of logic, that society will fail in the long run. Female dominated societies, which I am sure existed, went the way of the dinosaurs when faced with bnetter run societies. The died out or were assimilated into male dominated scieties.

This theory doesn't apply only to female societies, but to any society. Look what happens to societies or sub-cultures within a society, when they embark on self-destructive or unsustainable paths. The PLO and Arafat embarked on a path in the 70's that was unsustainable due to the corruption in its leadership. Decisons were made based on connections and payoffs rather than on logic and reason. Look at the state Palestine is in now. The same goes for other countries like Nigeria, or for corporation like Enron, and its auditor, Arthur Anderson.

The problem is that bad decison-making usually doesn't show all its consequences for many many years. The decision-making style of most young women will not show negative consequences until they are well into middle age.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]A few years ago I read his material cover to cover and it made so much sense then and still does NOW. Back to the trait of "Challenge", think about it: you treasure something you've fought for and EARNED more so than you do something that was given to you FREE OF CHARGE without effort. PLUS women are of the mindset that if it's easy to get, then it's not worth having. I know it sounds fucked up to any upstanding guy who'd make a great husband and father, but how else are you gonna survive in the game?

Consider these words, Young Padawans....[/QUOTE]

Those are very wise words! I have heard many time from women who say they want a challenge in a man, AND to be a challenge for a man. They want their man to "conquer" them.

I don't get it at all, because if a woman is making herself a "challenge" for me, I interpret it as she is not interested in me. I don't see the oint in battling a woman for er love. Love is freely given WITHOUT a battle! So to me these women are looking for something that is certainly not love to me!

I am sure I can speak for all of us who have dated foreign women. When you have been with a woman is interested in you and shows in very POSITIVE ways that she is interested in you, you can never again seriously respond to any AW.

Why Farang girls hate Thailand - priceless!!!

[url]http://www.mangosauce.com/farang_life/why_farang_girls_hate_thailand.php[/url]

Jackson: I apologize in advance if url contravenes posting rules. Please delete this post if inappropriate.

Yes, American women are a challenge. Guys like a little token resistance now and then; but seriously who would want to conquer this?

Chocha Monger,

LOL. Last man, last women and all that: I’d rather that as a species we went into extinction rather than mount that…

Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Yes, American women are a challenge. Guys like a little token resistance now and then; but seriously who would want to conquer this?[/QUOTE]

CM, I believe Captain Ahab would want to conquer that...

Someone tell her not to go near the ocean, especially if there's any whaling ships nearby.

Rock

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Yes, American women are a challenge. Guys like a little token resistance now and then; but seriously who would want to conquer this?[/QUOTE]
I'd hit it...

[b]with a crowbar!!![/b]

yes, women have been historically denied decision making power, although i don't believe it has anything to to with men's 'physical superiority' or because women 'generally aren't any good at it' ...the suppression and oppression of women is, and always has been, a very deliberate action by the church (for many reasons, but this is probably neither the time nor the place for religious discussion!)

anyway, what i'm really here to comment on is the recent posts regarding single mothers. those comments were based on what can only be described as cruel generalisations and blatant stereotyping. aside from the fact that you are describing only a tiny minority of single mums and tarring us all with the same brush in the process, there are three things that really made me furious about those posts.

1) yes, there are single parents who enter into relationships thinking only of themselves - be it for sex, financial security, emotional support or just blinded by love - with little regard for how that relationship will affect their children. but i would be willing to wager that for most single mums, their children's welfare is their absolute top priority. do we somehow care less about our children than our married counterparts do? are we really all that selfish/desperate/victimised/stupid that we would choose the affections of a man or the stability of a marriage over the safety and happiness of our own flesh and blood??? a parent's primary responsibility in life is to protect their children and it is not a job that any of us take lightly, married or not. but even after taking all due care and being very selective about partners, some of us will still find ourselves in relationships that end in disaster, for us and for our children. that's nothing to do with single parents choosing 'bad boys' - it's just the nature of relationships in general. one day you wake up and the man you love, that you chose to be the father of your children, has suddenly become unfaithful or a child abuser or [i]a drunken, violent piece of shit[/i] - and i know, because that's how i became a single mum in the first place!

2) there is a very big difference between a 'bad boy' and a paedophile. sure, mum's new boyfriend may be a bit of a party animal or a womaniser or knock her around a bit. but does that automatically mean that he would consider jumping into bed with her 9 year old daughter??? or, if she is a mother of a teenage girl, then she is likely to be in her mid thirties or older and he is likely to be in a similar age bracket. why on earth would it then stand to reason that this man who is approaching forty would necessarily fantasise about fucking his 15 year old step daughter, just because she lives in the same house and is not biologically related to him? a paedophile might see the teen as a horny young girl, but a real step-father just sees her as his daughter.

3) basically, the entire argument is a cop-out that absolves men of any wrong-doing when it comes to the ridiculous rate of child sexual abuse and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of women. on one hand you are saying that women are not able to make intelligent decisions on their own behalf and on the other, you are saying that single mothers should have known better than to bring 'that sort of man' into their homes and let them get their hands on their daughters. well, guess what...it's men who [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] those single mothers' daughters. whether the mother should have seen it coming or not, is beside the point. whether it happens more in single parent families than in marital homes, is beside the point. it is men who are [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] their daughters and step-daughters. stop blaming women for letting it happen and start blaming the men for doing it!!!

end of rant. let the flaming begin.

Hi Nursey,

At the moment, I'm cramming for a job interview....I'll weigh in later.

B9K

B9K,

Just for the record, my post is an attack on the concept that was being discussed, not a personal attack on any of the posters involved. :)

Best of luck with your interview!

LOL. If you want pics of hot babes, go to the field reports - where I don't post. This is the Opinions sections and, like it or not, I've got opinions about the relationship between men and women, just like you have. And if you have a little look at the number of posts beneath my handle, you'll see that I've shared a hell of a lot of my opinions over the years and I'm probably not gonna stop any time soon, no matter how...ummm...'nicely', you ask. :)

Long time no hear, Red! Your suggestion about the church historically oppressing women is an interesting one, and upon further thought, makes a lotta sense. However, I wouldn't say JUST the (Catholic) Church, but ALL major religions. In a nutshell, it lets men get away with murder (sometimes literally) while women are expected to blindly adhere to laws written by MEN. To pause for a moment, don't EVEN think I'm promoting feminism by my aforementioned words. Those doing so will receive a custard pie to the face! I also agree wholeheartedly that a single mum's priority is her little one(s) and mostly try to make decisions that positively affect their lives. However, it seems that many single mums (apparently not you) get taken in by said bad boy who in the end, isn't good for mum OR the little one, but is still charmed by him, and gradually allows him to get away with more and more unacceptable behavior that has been discussed in previous posts. Myself, I couldn't date a single mother because A] I would INSTANTLY have a living, breathing hurdle to overcome that would be always attempting to foil my efforts to forge a relationship with the single mother; B] Somewhere in the back of her mind, there would ALWAYS be the little one, who would take priority over me, and therefore divide her attention (which at best, would be directed to me only 50% of the time); and C] being an instant father would be like walking in the Outback at high noon one moment and being tossed into the Antarctic Ocean the next: a SHOCK that I would have to contend with if my relationship with the single mother would survive.

No flame, just my two cents, however worthless it may be.

Hey, as I've said before, I have absolutely no problem with people choosing not to date single parents; female OR male. As a single Mum, I know that dating - which is already an emotional minefield at the best of times - is made all the more difficult with the addition of children. And as I mentioned last time, I am currently (yes, STILL, would you believe!! LOL) involved with a man who is also a single parent. It puts a lot of pressure on both of us and makes everything so much more complicated than it really should be.

My issue is the with apparent belief that there is something inherently wrong with single parents in general. That we are bad judges of men, that we put our children at risk with our so-called 'lifestyle choices' (are we really suggesting that every single Mum does drugs, parties constantly and brings a different man into her home every night???). Single parents cannot be held responsible for all of society's ills. And single Mums should not have to bear the guilt and shame and BLAME all by themselves, anyway. Women can't have children all by themselves. For every single mother, there is at least one FATHER out there who, for whatever reason, is no longer a part of the family. And why is it that if the man she has children to is a 'bad boy' and abuses the kids or leaves her, it's always HER fault??? You're saying that women actively go out and find 'bad boy' assholes who will treat them like crap and then leave them, so it must be her fault for choosing him in the first place. But doesn't HE deserve some contempt for being an asshole in the first place?

I'm sorry - I just don't get how men always manage to make this OUR fault. The single mother issue is, in my eyes, just another example of male/female double standards ie: a client who pays for sex is a perfectly normal human being, but a prostitute who charges for it is somehow degrading herself; a man who sleeps with a hundred women is a stud, but a woman who sleeps with fifty is a sl*t; a single mother is an unfit parent, but the asshole who got her pregnant and took off is somehow not even taken into consideration.

Ok, I'm rambling again - and this isn't even remotely on topic. My apologies. Sometimes when I get my knickers in a knot, I just can't stop myself. :)

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]
I'm sorry - I just don't get how men always manage to make this OUR fault. The single mother issue is, in my eyes, just another example of male/female double standards ie: a client who pays for sex is a perfectly normal human being, but a prostitute who charges for it is somehow degrading herself; a man who sleeps with a hundred women is a stud, but a woman who sleeps with fifty is a sl*t; a single mother is an unfit parent, but the asshole who got her pregnant and took off is somehow not even taken into consideration. [/QUOTE]

I'm sure this is very true in the USA......but I'm not sure your comments apply in other countries.

i'm australian - and even in what i consider to be a broadminded country, these stereotypes are still alive and well. take, for example, when a sex worker is raped. do the courts judge these cases in the same way as they would the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of a 'normal' woman? (if it makes it to court at all!) and is the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of a 'promiscuous' woman judged in the same way as that of a 'chaste' woman?

i could meet a man who has slept with 500 women (and he would probably give me that information with absolutely no sense of shame - maybe even with some pride) but do you think he would consider continuing our relationship if i told him that i have slept with more than 8 times that number of men???

and you only have to look at some of the comments men on this forum have made to me over the years to see the hooker/client double standard. all the men on this forum consider themselves educated, intelligent, respectable men who simply indulge in a hobby that is on slightly the wrong side of 'moral' in society's eyes. they don't feel that the fact that they're 'mongers' has any bearing on their characters at all. and rightly so. but when *i* open my mouth with some comment that people don't agree with, i am automatically called out as a wh*re - uneducated, degraded, immoral and untrustworthy. there is something inherently wrong with me because i accepted money for sex, and yet there is no such assumption made about the men who gave me that money.

this double standard is always alive and well in the american women section. you guys say that women are too fussy, too full of themselves - and yet every second post complains that the women that hit on you are not beautiful/young/slim/busty/perfect enough for you to lower yourself to sleep with. you complain that women are manipulative and cruel when it comes to marriage and then you discuss ways to screw women out of every penny when a relationship breaks down (or ways to avoid any commitment at all). you say all american women are fat and ugly and let themselves go as soon as they get into a relationship - and yet you fail to look at your own bald spots and beer bellies and consider that maybe we are thinking the same thing about you guys! (i don't know about your country, but in mine, there are more obese men than women!)

i'll repeat something i've said before (and a certain poster who shall remain nameless may recognise this :) ) - don't expect women to make compromises that you, yourself, are not willing to make. don't expect women to go to the gym and stay slim and beautiful, while you age disgracefully on the couch with a beer in your hand. don't expect a woman to go out of her way to treat you like a king, unless you are prepared to treat her like a princess. have a look at the women you like, work out what it is that you actually like about them and try emulating those qualities yourself. remember, we are just as scared and insecure and disillusioned as you are!!!

I just came back from buenos aires so I'm in a very healthy state of mind.
I agree with you that both women and men can be sluts and *****s there are no exceptions.I think what you failed to address is that people do have a desire for a long term relationship with one person but the cards are different in this day and age and one must explore other avenues.It's getting harder and harder in western culture to find a compatible partner due to too many reasons to be listed or they have already been addressed on this board.
I disagree with you about women wanting an in- shape guy. The only way it would work is if you both worked out and enjoyed a healthy lifestyle. There is no way a women is going to feel comfortable with an in shape guy who looks better than her and has more visual appeal.The guy is going to get hit on by women and men alike.Just the same if a women is in shape and the guy isn't guys should know they have to pay for it otherwise it wouldn't fit.
I resent the fact that you scourn men and the activities that go on on this board.That would be like me interfering in a conversation on girls night out.I find it appealing that your intrested in the topic of mongering and are willing to listen but your comments about men are typical and dont relate to anything positive.
It would be more intresting to have a female address topics in an unbiased manner.I think the insight would be very welcomed.I think your last post displayed just the kind of energy we (at least me) are trying to avoid.


**** Artisttyp

[quote=rubber nursey] a parent's primary responsibility in life is to protect their children and it is not a job that any of us take lightly, married or not. but even after taking all due care and being very selective about partners, some of us will still find ourselves in relationships that end in disaster, for us and for our children. that's nothing to do with single parents choosing 'bad boys' - it's just the nature of relationships in general. one day you wake up and the man you love, that you chose to be the father of your children, has suddenly become unfaithful or a child abuser or [i]a drunken, violent piece of shit[/i] - and i know, because that's how i became a single mum in the first place!

end of rant. let the flaming begin.[/quote]

ok. here is my flame!

read you own words, rn!!!!!!!!

despite all that you, and other women, have done to be careful and selective in choosing a mate, you still find yourselves in relationships that are disastrous. rather than realize that you are selection out decent men and selecting in assholes, and then respond to that by changing your selection method, you blame it on "the nature of relationships in general" and on us men who magically overnight become assholes, after months/years of behavior that you found attractive and endearing. what a crock!!!!

this is exactly why we men are finding women from non-western countries more appealing than american (or australian) women. we men are blamed for your (women's) mistakes!!!

unless these assholes are [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] you, it is your responsibility, and your responsibility alone, for the type (and number) of men who enter your intimate life. start taking responsibility for your decisions!

if you do the same thing repeatedly (apply a flawed selection method), but expect a different outcome (a decent man) from the one you have been repeatedly getting (an asshole), then you are very stupid!!

your selection method is flawed because you women like those assholes! if you were serious about not having a drunkard in your life, you would not date any man who drank. if you were serious about not having any abuse in your relationship, you would stay away from men who demean, humiliate, or threaten others, even if they have not done so to you (yet). it in fact has everythuing to do with women choosing "bad boys"!

this rant is not sexist because the same criticisms apply to men. there are many men who repeatedly choose badly and repeatedly end up with lousy partners, but blame everyone else and everything else before themselves.

"yes, women have been historically denied decision making power, although i don't believe it has anything to to with men's 'physical superiority' or because women 'generally aren't any good at it' ...the suppression and oppression of women is, and always has been, a very deliberate action by the church (for many reasons, but this is probably neither the time nor the place for religious discussion!)"

i'm an admittedly weak student of history as a whole, and certainly haven't put any special study into the histor of gender relations. i was actually thinking back to prehistoric times where the female homo sapien had no choice but to submit to the will of the male homo sapien....and things probably continued forth from there, where that position was further legitamized in rule by the church and government.

"anyway, what i'm really here to comment on is the recent posts regarding single mothers. those comments were based on what can only be described as cruel generalisations and blatant stereotyping. aside from the fact that you are describing only a tiny minority of single mums and tarring us all with the same brush in the process, there are three things that really made me furious about those posts.

1) yes, there are single parents who enter into relationships thinking only of themselves - be it for sex, financial security, emotional support or just blinded by love - with little regard for how that relationship will affect their children. but i would be willing to wager that for most single mums, their children's welfare is their absolute top priority. do we somehow care less about our children than our married counterparts do? are we really all that selfish/desperate/victimised/stupid that we would choose the affections of a man or the stability of a marriage over the safety and happiness of our own flesh and blood??? a parent's primary responsibility in life is to protect their children and it is not a job that any of us take lightly, married or not. but even after taking all due care and being very selective about partners, some of us will still find ourselves in relationships that end in disaster, for us and for our children. that's nothing to do with single parents choosing 'bad boys' - it's just the nature of relationships in general. one day you wake up and the man you love, that you chose to be the father of your children, has suddenly become unfaithful or a child abuser or a drunken, violent piece of shit - and i know, because that's how i became a single mum in the first place!"



i believe that ty higgs asserted that girls bounce from bad boy to bad boy. although i didn't take issue with it enough to voice a disagreement (i've seen it happen), i generally maintain that women run around until the get their lives into a bad place, and then go pick up a love and sex starved "nice guy" to pick up the pieces of her life (saddling him with parental responsibilities and obligations-which western culture glorifies, and paints with a pretty picture but still it remains)-i have seen this happen dozens of times over the years....we had this discusion last time......

i don't believe that people change overnight....or actually that much at all, except for becoming generally more mature, calmer, and sometimes wiser. my best and oldest friend, at 21 was kind, intelligent, respectful, polite, loving, hardworking, faithful, moderately ambitious......fifteen years later, at age 36, guess what he is......kind, intelligent, respectful, polite, loving, hardworking, faithful, moderately ambitious. yes, things can be hidden for a time, but i have a hard time believing that you can go through an entire courtship without getting some indication what a man is actually like...aren't women supposed to be the perceptive emotionally intuitive gender? perhaps you saw the problems, but were "blinded by love"......this sounds a lot like the emotion based bad decision making that i was criticizing.....and as i postulated, can't believe that 60-70 years ago, needing patriarchal aproval for courtship didn't cut down on that sort of thing.


"2) there is a very big difference between a 'bad boy' and a paedophile. sure, mum's new boyfriend may be a bit of a party animal or a womaniser or knock her around a bit. but does that automatically mean that he would consider jumping into bed with her 9 year old daughter???"

i personally agree.....being a bad boy doesn't necessarily make someone a ****. someone can be 10 times as bad as the guy you describe above, and still (rightly) not have the slightest sexual interest in a pre pubescent child. being attracted to a child is an incurable sicknes, and acting on that impulse should be met with the harshest legal penalties.


"or, if she is a mother of a teenage girl, then she is likely to be in her mid thirties or older and he is likely to be in a similar age bracket. why on earth would it then stand to reason that this man who is approaching forty would necessarily fantasise about fucking his 15 year old step daughter, just because she lives in the same house and is not biologically related to him? a paedophile might see the teen as a horny young girl, but a real step-father just sees her as his daughter."

i'm going to have to strongly disagree, and don't mean to be unkind, but have to tell you that you are seeing that situation with rose colored glasses.

basically there are two kinds of men:

those who are sexually attracted to physically sexually mature attractive girls including those **** 18, or even 16.

and others who say that they aren't, but are lying. watch the eyes(we are usually sneaky about this) of the greatest father,kind, upstanding, moral, husband etc, as a 15 year old with big tits walks by...i guarantee that they will follow the girl. he may curse himself for having "impure thoughts" or whatever, but the thouhts are still there.

now, i am by no means saying that this is right, or that every man acts on the attraction, but simply that it is there. i haven't experienced this personally, but have even heard from biological fathers, that they have a hard time coping with their daughters becoming sexually mature...they become disgusted with themselves for being at least "aware" that the little moppet who is still climbing into daddy's lap is suddenly brushing brand new breasts up against him in the process.


3) basically, the entire argument is a cop-out that absolves men of any wrong-doing when it comes to the ridiculous rate of child sexual abuse and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of women. on one hand you are saying that women are not able to make intelligent decisions on their own behalf and on the other, you are saying that single mothers should have known better than to bring 'that sort of man' into their homes and let them get their hands on their daughters. well, guess
what...it's men who [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] those single mothers' daughters. whether the mother should have seen it coming or not, is beside the point. whether it happens more in single parent families than in marital homes, is beside the point. it is men who are [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] their daughters and step-daughters. stop blaming women for letting it happen and start blaming the men for doing it!!!


my assertion was simply that women, as single mothers are less capable of keeping sexual predators away(not necessarily those that they are married to, or bringing into the house as boyfriends or whatever, although that is also certainly a problem-see above)....what originally brought this topic to mind was a syndicated radio host that espouses sentiments similar to that which is expressed on this board. he happened to take a call from a very screwed up young woman (i don't remember her exact dysfunction) who was seduced by and lost her virginity at age 11 to a 19 year old man as she was left unsupervised while her single mother was off at work. my point was twofold. one, although i am highly progressive in most areas, i do not believe as our pro feminist society has deigned that one woman is in most cases well equipped to raise children without the presence of a partner-parenthood is a two person job, with one entity primarily providing financial support, and the other being the primary caregiver. noticed that i did switch to gender neutral language....i do not have a problem with both parents being a man and woman, two gay men, or two gay women (although i cringe at the thought of some of the fucked in the head dykes i know raising children). in the case of this 11 year old girl, if there had been someone anyone supervising her, she would not have ever been in a situation where she could be coerced into sex with a 19 year old scumbag. my second point is that although our society has deigned that men are superfulous (i hope i spelled that correctly).....quite frankly, the chance of the incident happening would have been radically diminished if the girl's 30-40 year old father would have been around, as the 19 year old skeevy punk would have been very likely intimidated by the father who around that age would be coming into the peak of masculine power.

by the way, it is not hypocritical for the lesser financial contributor in a relationship to be expected to stay physically attractive....in many cases that is what allowed them to be in the relationship, and giving that up is pretty much "false advertising". again, note that i switched to gender neutral language. these days, many successful women are taking "boy toys" as partners....it would also be wrong of the "boy toy" to become phyically, or otherwise undesireable after laying claim to a successful woman's financial assets through a marriage. i couldn't imagine how much for example a 33 year old pharmaceutical representative who makes 140k a year and has a net worth of $850,000 would complain if the 25 year old surf bum with a 32 inch waist decided shortly after they got married chose to gain 50 pounds, deny her sex, and become moody and unpleasant to deal with. yet a woman does it, and it's "just natural".

b9k

For the record, I definitely do NOT 'scorn men'. I love men. In fact, I only have one female friend (and I am HER only female friend!) and all my other mates are, and always have been, men. I've been on this board for many years now, because I love to hear how you guys feel and what you think about different matters. Sometimes I play Devils Advocate and sometimes I genuinely disagree with you, but most of the time I recognise your fears and insecurities in myself and agree with you wholeheartedly. I can't give you 'unbiased opinion' as such - I'm a woman and my views will always be from a woman's perspective. But that's good, because your views come from a male perspective and maybe, every now and then, we can find common ground and get some insight into where our respective genders are going wrong. :)

"...people do have a desire for a long term relationship with one person but the cards are different in this day and age...It's getting harder and harder in western culture to find a compatible partner...".

Absolutely! My theory? Men and women no longer have clearly defined gender roles. Neither of us know where the hell we stand any more. Men are supposed to be kind and sensitive while at the same time being dominant and macho. They are supposed to be the breadwinner and yet spend more time with the kids and help with the housework. They are supposed to get jealous and defend their lady's honour and yet not be violent or controlling or possessive. Women are in exactly the same boat. We are still supposed to be popping out babies and cooking and cleaning and being 'good wives' and at the same time have a successful career and be financially independent. We are supposed to embrace our sexuality and indulge in casual sex and yet when we do it too openly, we are still branded sl*ts. In the business world and the political arena we are encouraged to be tough, ball-breaking b*tches, and yet still retain our femininity and be 'submissive' and nurturing.

When we get into relationships, we don't know what part we're supposed to play any more. Men fear their masculinity is being threatened. Women fear their independence is being undermined. Both sides are suspicious of each other - largely, I think, because we all spend so much time trying to be someone we're not, that we come across as 'fake'. And with divorce rates so high these days, I fear we are ALL going into relationships expecting the worst and it eventually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Right now, we have a Mexican Stand-off between men and women. Neither wants to be the one who backs down and compromises their position. We really need to stop treating relationships like a competition that can be won or lost - we're ALL losing because of it.

I, personally, do not believe for a minute that 'all women love bad boys'. Take a look at your own mates who are married or in relationships - are they all bad boys? Are they all treating their wives and girlfriends like crap? There are plenty of good men out there with partners and plenty of women who found exactly what they were looking for in those good men.

Most of us in this 'room' are over thirty. We have all been there and done that and are now looking at things from an experienced, mature, 'I know exactly what I'm looking for in a partner' position. But we were all young once and when we were, our priorities were very different to what they are now. In years past it was (for many of us) largely about sex, image, fun and excitement. We made decisions based on those priorities and - surprise, surprise - it blew up in our faces. Now we are looking for companionship, love, romance and stability and can't seem to find it. Why? Probably because a) many of us are looking for younger partners who are still in that sex and excitement phase of their life (and as such, won't give us a second glance) and/or b) because we've all been burned so badly by our past experiences that we are going into new relationships with bitterness and mistrust and destroying it before it starts. And that's both men AND women.

"This rant is not sexist because the same criticisms apply to men. There are many men who repeatedly choose badly and repeatedly end up with lousy partners, but blame everyone else and everything else before themselves".

That's all I was getting at in the first place. It takes TWO to fuck up a relationship. :)

Firstly, can I say thank you for the polite and respectful tone of your post. I was up on my high-horse yesterday when I wrote mine and certainly wasn't as balanced as I usually try to be, so I probably deserved some serious flaming from you, which I didn't get. Your original posts hit a raw nerve with me, not just because I was upset with the stereotyping, but because of some political stuff that's going on down here at the moment regarding single parents (namely, forcing single parents to work more hours - thus being around less for their children and increasing their risk of coming to harm). My frustration with these Government policies, combined with your - absolutely correct - observation that kids are at more risk when their only parent is forced to choose work over parenting, caused me to snap back more violently than I should have. My apologies and thank you again for the respectful way in which you responded to my rant.:)

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Deleted by poster

Hey there RN,

This is a bit off the current topic but anyways.... a couple of days ago, one of the guys here posted a link to a website for guys who enjoy the Thailand scene.
There were lots of comments regarding so-called backpacker girls. These are farang type girls who go travelling to Thailand as tourists. Some of these girls had actually made some rather nasty comments regarding the guys activities while they were mongering in Thailand..... which kind of brings me to the point I want to make.

What is it with women and competition? Apparently a lot of these girls like to get laid, which is normal. However, it seems that the competition (by local Thai girls) for the farang guys is having a profound effect on their behaviour. There are guys reporting come-ons made by women that they'd NEVER get if they were back home. One guy went so far as to say "It's like shooting blonde pussy in a barrel".

I was wondering if you might have some insights into this whole competition thing.

Rock

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]I, personally, do not believe for a minute that 'all women love bad boys'. Take a look at your own mates who are married or in relationships - are they all bad boys? Are they all treating their wives and girlfriends like crap? There are plenty of good men out there with partners and plenty of women who found exactly what they were looking for in those good men. [/QUOTE]

I do not associate with 'bad boys' so my own friends are not 'bad boys'. However, many, if not most, are divorced or on second or third marriages BECAUSE they were not 'bad' enough for their first wives. They did not treat their women crapping enough! As a result, their women did not feel 'loved', hence the request for divorce.

Many women here in North America believe that strong emotional displays reflect love and caring. One women said to me that she believed that fights in a marriage were necessary for a healthy marriage. (She felt it cleared the air.) Many women do things to inspire jealousy, or other strong emotions, to test whether the man really loves them.

From our point of view, we work hard to create a secure home for our wives and childre. We work hard to give opportunities to our children that we didn't have in order that they see more success in life than we. From many women's points of view, our hard work takes us away from her and out of the home. This makes her feel neglected and unloved. To test whether she is still loved and to feel lobved, a woman provokes fights, jealousies, and anger in her husband. After a few years of this nonsense, the woman comes to believe that she is not loved and the man loses the love he once had for her. And they divorce.

If this sounds like immature behavior, I agree completely; it is immature behavior. To many of us men, many women seem to be emotionally immature. They are very smart, accomplished, and professional in their jobs, but revert to children when it comes to romance. It is as if women's emotional development is arrested at their late teens or early twenties, despite them beng 10 or 20 years older than that.

Rock Dog, RN, Wet Nose

After reading Wet Nose's post I was thinking about that very same question. Well asked RD.

Regards, Havanaman

I travel by myself alot and it seems just when I have a few days left I meet
a western girl that sucks me dry of my time with no intention of it adding up to anything.I feel its for the lack of attention/intrest that they get and they want a male companion to accompany them.I usually hang out for awhile then I say I have things to do.It's always a game.I also believe they just dont add up to the sex appeal of foreign women so their sense of control is lost.
Fuck the farang women who dont like what we do if they gave it up without so much bullshit maybe they would have guys falling at their feet.I get that in the DR alot.Remember in most countries if a guy wants pussy he gets it no matter what.
Someone mentioned older women and how they lose maturity with age so true.Usually it's in accordance with their looks when they suddenly realize its takes personality too.You can really judge a womens character as she gets older the less neurotic the more compassionate the better the catch for those who stay attractive they regress as well but back into the intellect of a 20 year old.Lets see would I like a ok looking women in her 40's that acts like a 20 year old or a 20 year without any wear and tear that acts her age.
I really think things will only get better for me now that I'm 36 and never been married.I'm prime meat for the right person and the control is more in my favor.I will use it with respect but I will also not let my emotions or compassion ruin my opportunity that I have rightfully been waiting for.
I resent nothing I do just that it didn't happen any sooner.
Also when women get older they get manly features even the attractive ones.I have a date today and shes around 37 with an estrogen defecit but still somewhat attractive and her personality is kind of like half man too.I'm debating whether it's worth it.I dont know maybe I should just stick to mongering and forget about the rest completely.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]What is it with women and competition? ...I was wondering if you might have some insights into this whole competition thing.[/QUOTE]

Insight? No.
Opinion? Hell yeah!
I know you guys think women treat MEN like crap, but that's NOTHING compared to how women treat each other!! (Why do you think all my mates are men???) Everything's a bloody competition.

Women are their own worst enemies. We are very insecure creatures - ask any woman what parts of her body she doesn't like and her list will take her half an hour to rattle off. We spend a WHOLE lot of time thinking "I wish I had boobs like hers - I wish I had long legs like hers - I wish I was thin/curvy/blonde/brunette/tall/petite like her". So much time, in fact, that when we actually meet a woman that has all the attributes that we wish we had - we can't help thinking "YOU F#@&#G B*TCH"!!!!

As far as the situation with Western backpackers in Thailand goes, I think its probably just a case of them overcompensating for the fact that they're not Asian. The physical differences between Thai girls and your average Western woman are obvious - as is the fact that if the Western guys are visiting Thailand and hanging out in the girlie bars, they are probably specifically looking to pick up Thai chicks. But those Western girls are ALSO on holiday looking for a good shagging!! How else can they compete with some exotic looking Asian woman? Their only real option is to be totally brazen.

Mind you - they could have just thrown off their inhibitions and decided to play sex kitten while they're away from home, like a lot of people do when they go on holiday. An American tourist (for example) could very well behave in exactly the same way if she travelled to Australia or England, where physically she would be very similar to the locals. Its amazing what a few glasses of wine and ten thousand miles between her and her husband can do for a woman's libido. :)

George90:

You got me there, mate - I can't argue with a word you said!! :)

I've seen plenty of women behave in exactly the manner you described and I guess I've probably done it a bit myself over the years. Not cause fights on purpose, but I've been guilty of a little bit of harmless flirting over the years - just enough get my partners attention and check out his reaction. To see if he still gives a damn, I suppose. However, I have had boyfriends do exactly the same thing to me, but the motive is usually to make me feel uncertain about my attractiveness (compared to the woman he is flirting with) and not-so-subtly remind me that I could be easily replaced OR to reaffirm his own attractiveness in his own mind. Men have a few cruel games of their own up their sleeves!

I'd be willing to relate it to the 'gender role crisis' theory I was talking about before. (And again, that's just my own theory and I'm no expert on the human behaviour). I think somewhere deep down, perhaps subconsciously, women still want to feel possessed or dominated by their man and they want him to defend her honour and fight for her affection like males do in the wild. In the same way, I think men still want their women to be submissive and obedient to a certain extent and he wants to be the 'leader' of the household and rule with an iron fist. Most of these concepts are considered outdated - if not offensive - in modern relationships. When our instinct is telling us one thing and our social environment is telling us another, its sure to cause unrest, both in our minds and in our marriages.

Does that mean I can't take a club and bash my competition over the head and victoriously drag my (newfound prize) woman BY HER HAIR back to my cave?

You could try - but you'd best make sure that club isn't within her reach when you let go of her hair. Especially if she's just been to the hairdressers!!

RN's assertion about women having all kinds of negative views about their appearance is correct.

Three years ago I was with a drop dead gorgeous working girl by the name of Alexandra in Manchester, England. I asked her out for dinner afterward and, to my surprise, she accepted. Over dinner and several bottles of wine, she began to speak spontaneously about her myriad of physical imperfections and shortcomings. Huh??? I mean, this girl was drop-dead gorgeous. She looked much like Catherine Zeta-Jones but even better - if that's possible. As I'm looking at her through my wine-induced haze, I could hardly believe what she was telling me. It occured to me that if this woman thinks that she is lacking in terms of physical attributes and beauty, I could only wonder what the other women on this planet must be thinking. I tried to re-assure her but she would have none of it. The whole encounter was rather amazing and I've never really forgotten her.

Paddy

This whole low-self-esteem thing might be at least a partial explanation for the whole bad-boy phenomenon.

These guys may have a better ability to spot attractive women who have low self esteem..... even though,outwardly, they might be stuck-up. The crappy treatment from the badboy is subconciously reassuring to the woman because it matches up with what she thinks she deserves.

This is offered only as a theory and partial explanation. Most times, the only way to know what's going on in a woman's head is to ask another woman.

Rock

I personally dont see as many women falling for the true bad boys as is reported here... i.e. guys with drug and alcohol problems, unemployed or criminally employed etc. I think a lot of this might be merely superficial. Then again, maybe I am just liviing in denial... :)

Still, beyond whats been written here, it is true that many very attractive girls cannot find men with enough confidence to hit on them.... men are intimidated by their beauty.

Macho men, in the US at least often what one might call "bad boys", are fearless in terms of hitting on women. In fact, I think their strategy is to hit on 30 women a night in the hope that they might get 2 or 3 that take the bait. No wonder they end up thinking that "all women are slutz"... they conveniently forget the 27 out of 30 that told them to take a hike.

In any case, its often no wonder that attractive women often end up with guys that look and behave like they've just been released from the state pen.

For me personally the bad boy syndrome doesnt have to work against us. Although I hardly qualify as a bad boy in the sense of the word used here, I have found that being adventurous or somewhat aggressive are qualities that many women, even if they don't admit it outright, like in a man. I find that women like to be reminded that they are women... and demonstrating the differences, whether physical or cultural, can tweak their interest.

I also find that, at least when dating young girls (18-24, in the age before they actually start looking for real long-term partners that can give them financial stability) do tend to go for rougher or at least superficially alpha male type guys. I also found that in the days when I behaved the "worst"... having multiple girlfriends simultaneously etc... it was the easiest for me to get girls. My "bad reputation" actually served as great advertising. And although some girls wouldnt touch me with a ten foot pole, many girls came around out of curiousity just to see what all the fuss was about.

I think the key is of course in the individual chemistry, but being "soft" in any way really wont get you far.

I used to know this kid who got a lot of play from being "bad", "crazy", and "wild". His claims to fame:

He had a lot of tatoo's.

He had a pierced tongue (In my estimation, that is one for the "you know how I know you're gay...." list, right next to "you used macrame to knit yourself a pair of jean shorts)

He was a "wild dancer".

He would yell and scream a lot.

I looked at this punk, and thought to myself. "Wild eh? Tell you what son, you can call me when you have:"

Had a Rugby team try to haze you with alcohol and you laugh at them/been told to STOP drinking all the beer while playing "three man" before they run out.

Telling same rugby team that you will submit to hazing stunts, when and if they (collectively) find someone big and bad enough to MAKE YOU.

Fool around with a pretty freshman girl on the roof of a frat house (This was WAY before flashing tits became part of the typical Friday night out) with numerous witnesses.

Gotten kicked out of a FRATERNITY for being a drunken psychopath

Gone Urban Surfing (I was only the driver on this one)

Mastered solo operation of a beer bong.

Drunkenly doing "stealth mode" on a dark highway at 110 MPH (Admittedly, this wasn't my idea, and not too bright but....I thought it was funny at the time).

You guys get the idea.....

(disdainful tone) "Wild dancing"

B9k

was being kicked out of a town in a foreign country by the mayor himself with police backup

I have to take an honorable mention for while fucking my roomates girlfriend, making an attempt to get her upstairs so we could fuck in my bed (we were in her car), four feet away from her sleeping boyfriend. She wouldn't go along with it.

B9K

Adding on: I'll throw a bit into the current conversation...At the moment I'm franticly re-educating myself in the finer points of MS Office, prior to some pre-employment testing.

Women are generally creatures of emotion....they are most attracted to the guys that give them the biggest emotional rush....making them feel that they are "most alive", "walking on the wildside" whatever.......unfortunately, these feelings are most often generated by the guys who have the most drama and excitement in their lives......getting shot at while running from a house you just broke into-pretty exciting.......working all day and then studying all night for your MBA-kinda boring. By the way, as I have repeated ad nauseum, girl's don't usually MARRY the "drama guys" (or guys they perceive to be that-see below)....they (generally speaking-there are exceptions) give their hot little asses to him until it's time to settle down, and then they reel in some poor "nice guy" schlub to foot the bills so he can pop out some munchkins-hopefully biologically his, but that is far from a given.

B9k

[QUOTE=Bart9000] By the way, as I have repeated ad nauseum, girl's don't usually MARRY the "drama guys" (or guys they perceive to be that-see below)....they (generally speaking-there are exceptions) give their hot little asses to him until it's time to settle down, and then they reel in some poor "nice guy" schlub to foot the bills so he can pop out some munchkins.

B9k[/QUOTE]

What you left out is that the munchkins that get popped out were sired by the "drama guys". The need to settke down with a "nice guy" hits hard when she gets pregnant and the father, a "drama guy", can provide absolutely ZERO stability.

[QUOTE=George90]What you left out is that the munchkins that get popped out were sired by the "drama guys". The need to settke down with a "nice guy" hits hard when she gets pregnant and the father, a "drama guy", can provide absolutely ZERO stability.[/QUOTE]


Well, that certainly happens too, both in the "instant family just add Daddy" category, as well as the "it's your baby" category.

Been meaning to mention...I don't begrudge anyone their youthful stupidity, as obviously I had at 18-22, a severe lack of regard for public safety. However, I paid the price for mine......girls expect you to pay their price for them.

B9k

PS The exciting loser/boring "winner" thing kind of feeds back into Nursey's "modern dichotomy" thing.....generally, toeing the line, working hard, being boring are prerequisites for success, which is required.....but then we are punished by a lack of attention (until it's time for them to use our financial resources) when we don't do them.

Not that you have all missed me, but I have spent the last month PLUS with this local Hungrian girl.

To cut a LONG story short, we finally met, I hit it, tagged it good in fact. But then the morning came, I left and 2nd doubts crept in...

From that moment I was DONE. She claims no chemical reaction in her to me. Okay, but she didn't mind the fact I "dinned at the Y" for at least 30 mins straight. Lack of regular sex shorten my master "stroke" to about 10 mins, which I thought might have screwed up her thinking. She asures me it had no effect, I don't buy it, but whatever.

Spent the next evening together, fondling and such. Got kicked out around Midnight. We both had to work early.

Well she pretty much said to me "in not so many words" that there is no spark and might not ever will be one. Wants to remain friends and that is fine with me, I suppose.

So what did I loose in that amount of time?

I won't get into all the details, I'll feel even more foolish than I already do.

I COULD have visted a certain German woman this month as was planned. Of course that might have limited my mongering to nill, but I would be in Europe and fuckin and that's what was important.

Now I have pushed that back to Sept/Oct when prices go back down, and frankly after spending some time in the New England area with about 5' of snow and visiting Canada during that same time, its actually not that bad, though I can't see myself LIVING in it. I would consider going even later in the year if it ment saving some dead presidents.

This has nothing to do with American women I guess, and this was about as far from the typical American woman as a European woman gets, which was very refreshing.

Though I failed this mission, I am on the right track. My destiny lies with a European woman. From where I don't know, but I can't see myself in any kind of a long term deal with an American woman. Expections are way too rare bothering with searching.

Its increasingly hard to find a childless woman here or in Europe.

But not impossible...

What kills is that she was local (10 mins away) and now I'm back to searching around the free world again. That is likely the most disapointing fact that it didn't work out.

Moral to this story -

Do not wait 5 weeks to meet a girl in person for the first time, especially if she lives in your AREA!

I wasted 5 weeks when it could have been maybe 1 week under normal conditions. Why did we wait so long? She wanted an answer on her legal status here. She is NOT an American citizen, even though she married one for papers. She sent out papers for her final Green Card before she can try for citizenship. She got an answer this past Saturday and I got the greenlight.

So there you have it, the only thing I can take from this is that a proper boy scout is always prepared... I had another waiting in the wings, though not an "import" but a "domestic" model, but she lives in UTAH!

Ive prolly traveled for pussy for more miles and hours than I care to mention.

The saga of being a nice guy continues...

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]I wasted 5 weeks when it could have been maybe 1 week under normal conditions. Why did we wait so long? She wanted an answer on her legal status here. She is NOT an American citizen, even though she married one for papers. She sent out papers for her final Green Card before she can try for citizenship. She got an answer this past Saturday and I got the greenlight.[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to kick a man when he is down, but you should have known better. I am quoting the part of your post where she clearly explains HER priorities to you. You are clearly nowhere near the top of her list of priorities. First is her papers. Second is her husband. You were way down that list in the recreation slot.

There is nothing wrong with being her recreation or her being your recreation. But there is LOTS wrong if you don't realize that is only what it is! You should have had your own priorites straight. Your German lady friend should have been a higher priority than your Hungarian fuck partner. It would have been better to put the Hungarian on hold until her papers panned out, while you put the Fraulein on the front burner.

At least, now you do know better. Thanks for sharing because now many other men know better as well.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I personally dont see as many women falling for the true bad boys as is reported here... i.e. guys with drug and alcohol problems, unemployed or criminally employed etc. I think a lot of this might be merely superficial. Then again, maybe I am just liviing in denial... :)[/QUOTE]


It's usually not THIS pronounced. Although guys like Soprano's character Chris Moltasanti (an abusive full blown criminal with a serious substance abuse problem) get more ass than the can shake a stick at, it is frequently more the "loser" part of "bad boy loser". One that I have seen a lot over the years is a pretty young girl from a nice family, who has some things going on (college, or a decent job, sometimes both) will have a boyfriend who is taking up air that other people could be breathing........pretty typical is being about 22-23, living with his divorced mother (Dad would have kicked his ass for being a bum), playing SEGA about 7 hours a day, maybe off and on holding down some little nothing part time job (zero ambition towards anything better)-paying just enough to keep him in cigs, weed and beer......plenty of time and energy to "party" and have social drama.......generally he treats the girl like shit, ambivalent as to whether or not she is around unless he gets horny.

The girl is usually madly in love with this guy....I saw a deal once where a 21 year old guy (not going to school) getting his FIRST job (20 hours a week at a department store) caused much jubilation and celebration with his 21 year old goddess of a girlfriend.....she was starting to plan her wedding and children with him..

Saw another deal where a guy actually planned it out where he and girlfriend (young and pretty, holding a decent job and going to school) could live in a one bedroom trailer with no phone and they could live on her income, so he could continue playing video games all day. I'm proud of her to say that this stunt got the guy dumped....after he got hot young ass off of her for 2-3 years (fortunately, she managed not to get pregnant). I can't help but think that there was some hardworkinig ambitious deserving young man who would have enjoyed her company during this time

While I am on a roll here, I once saw a guy who at 27 could be most accurately be described as a "drifter" (he came out to "crash with a buddy" for a while)come to work as a bartender at a restaurant where I was cooking in the early nineties. Within a month, he had "fucked and chucked" EVERY girl there who was young, single and attractive (total of 7 or 8).....yea, some of these girls were mattressbacked bimbo's, but others weren't......but they were all drawn to him like a moth to flame. This story at least has a happy ending.....the guy ended up a couple years later impregnating the biggest nasty, bitchy, ugly trailer park skank that you could possibly imagine....I believe he ended up married to her, and I'm sure she did a number on him.
B9k

Saw this post by a provider on another board and thought I'd post here for discussion purposes. This American guy is in some DEEP, DEEP dodo and it serves him right for being careless with his email password. His American wife wants to know from the provider what she might have done wrong in the relationship. It sure makes for some good reading.


...............an email from a wife? Not an angry one, but a like a pitiful, but determined one? Never in my 6 years of working have I had one of these, and I am usually ok at handling these sorts of things rationally-- but I am utterly and entirely stumped, without a clue on the horizon of what to say. I was so touched, and so confused and lost at the same time-- it was overwhelming... I got it latenight/early morning and she repeated herself often throughout, as though maybe she had been drinking a bit. But it was truly a cry for help that I had never come across. I am sure that she isn't onto ***, and even if she is, I had to risk it, I need help, I don't know what to say...


The email (minus a bit of fluff that was cut to shorten it) was sent as follows:

Danielle,

I hope this doesnt catch you as off gaurd as you caught me, and I hope you read my letter because it would mean alot to me if you do. I have seen your website and you are a very pretty girl. I am a woman, I am mother, and I am a wife, Though I am not mad, I know who and what you are and how you have affected me and my family anfd my childrem. I wont keep you, but I wanted to talk to you if you dont mind, about this and my husband. See its been a while now, that I have noticed signs of his misbehaving, but I dont ever say anything to him about it. and though you are not the only one I have emailed, you seem to be the one he is firends with. And from your correspondances I can tell what sort of person you are, and I think you will respect where i am coming from, so I have some questions for you (".....edited.......").

Im going to confront him, but before I do I want to knw one thing, what is it I have done wrong? What amy I not doing for him and to him, that has made him seek sexual attention outside of our home. I love my husband and I have stood behind him, but I am at my rock bottom wits end and i dont want to call it quits but I feel like i have no other choice at this point. This is my last resort. Please, I am asking you if you know anything, or can tell me anything that he has told you, it would be a great help. Tell me things he like to do, and things he has said to you that he wants to do or try. I always felt like I was open with him, but there is obvoisly some things that he feels he cant and shouldnt do with me and its tearing me and our family apart. Its also put a dent into our finances to the point where I have noticed it badly. Like I told you Im not mad with you, you were simply doing your job and I understand that. But I hope you understand that I cannot allow him to come see you or anyone else anymore. You can always find anothe client but he is my only husband. And Im in tears as I am writing this, you cant understand how it pains me to have to have to approach a lady my husband has given our money to for his pleasure, so I can find out about more about him. We have been married now for 17 years, and he apparently thinks he can't come to me for his desires or fetishes or whatever. I and can't take it, and we can't afford it. And it has to stop.

Im sorry if i have incovieninced you in any way. I dont mean to carry on, I would just relaly appreciate it if you can help me to please my husbband better. We cant afford this emotionally or financially any longer, but I dont want to loose him completely either. I need the keey to keeping us together. Please help. Can you call me, or can we meet for coffee or something?


******** ***********"


I know she isn't bull$hitting me, because she forwarded the emails he and I had sent back and forth... Im so shocked, and saddened, and embarrassed all at once, and I haven't sent something back to her yet. I feel very bad for the guy too-- because he and I had developed a friendship over the years he had seen me, and he does tell me plenty about his wife, nothing too bad ever, just that she is a great woman, but not pleasing him anymore-- exactly what she thinks of herself. I am at a total loss for thought, and anything that anyone can say to help would be great. I would like to be tasteful, and pleasant as possible, and I short and sweet as well.

I would like to help her, but how? I don't really want to get involved, but I feel so bad for her...

what to do?

I'd say that she basically anwered her own question in that letter. Of course women seem to understand men about as well as men understand women so I'll spell it out for everybody.

Married for 17 years with kids. 17 years of banging the same hole. 17 years of looking at the same naked body, the same old routine. There's no kinky sex acts, no techniques and no fetishes that could possibly freshen things up enough to get out of that rut. Of COURSE the guy went out for some side action. Guys need variety. Women want security and familiarity..... but men need variety. It's the eternal conflict between the sexes.

He's gonna have to deal with the consequences now. The wife may feel like it's her fault, but that won't last for long once the divorce lawyer's done coaching her.

Rock

The letter is expressed from ONE SIDE of the relationship. It says that the husband left her side to seek sexual gratification elsewhere. It does not say WHY. No details of the relationship are made known other than opinion. While I am NOT defending the husband, here's a POSSIBLE scenario...

wifey may have paid SO MUCH attention to the kids during the span of the relationship that she may have neglected hubby and not thought of it for a second because she was being "Mommy" and dumped her role as "wife". It DOES happen (I've seen it on Oprah! LOL). NATURALLY hubby is gonna be resentful and seek attention elsewhere. He has no legal recourse if wifey does this. What is he supposed to do? Tough it out, jerk off and be HAPPY at this farce of a family life? Sure, you should raise your kids with the proper amount of attention and love, but to do so at the detriment of your spouse (with whom your PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP should be) is a recipe for disaster. If she thinks that he's gonna wait around for the kids to turn 18 and be sexless for the entire time simply because she wants to dote on her kids, then she's OBVIOUSLY on crack. Does she think that he's gonna stand for this? No man with a backbone WILL. I think that this scenario is entirely plausible and is one she will not admit to.

Think about this, young padawans....

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney] I also met a Hungrian girl that has been in the US 6 years and TOTALLY uneffected by the typical thinking of American women, which she finds stupid and almost funny. Totally refreshing. What's even better she lives less than 5 mins from where I'm posting this...

I'm not going to put my eggs in one basket and she has some "green card" issues she needs to take care before anything serious happens between us. So currently the phyical part of the relationship is on hold, but you should see the SMS she sends me 4-5 times a day. She's gunna crack and when she does, I'll be there to catch her, but I will still go to Europe and enjoy myself, just to confirm she is worth and honestly I know its been only a few days, I can say she is 100% worth it....[/QUOTE]

DJFourMoney:

Do you think that we preach about the pitfalls of becoming involved with American and Americanized women because we have nothing better to do? It seems that all of the warnings and admonishments are futile; guys keep repeating the same behavior that gets them burned.

Let us see, this Hungarian woman lived in the United States for 6 years but you thought that she was “totally unaffected by the typical thinking of American women”. DJ, if you really believed that, I have a nice lobster farm in Central Georgia that I would like to sell you. Don’t worry, I’ll give you a good price and all of the lobsters have been de-clawed to spare you those nasty pinches.

So here you go, smitten with this totally Un-Americanized immigrant who has been residing in the US for 6 years; you cancel your mongering trip to Europe while this self professed visa hunter puts you on hold to finish securing a permanent green card from her sponsor; you dine on her [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] flaps for a half hour and then she tells your efforts didn’t have the slightest effect upon her. Then she tells you that you can be friends. Well, DJ pardon my honesty, but that sounds terribly American to me. You got played in a really bad way.

I remember that my last words to you regarding this woman were to “fuck and flee”. Instead, you chose to be Mr. Nice Guy and you finished last. Is that any surprise? How were you going to excite her when you did what every other sucker does by trying very hard to please her? You were too nice and sensitive making excuses for your performance; wasting your time licking her [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] hole. What you should have done was cut your 10 minute master stroke to a vicious 5 minute beast fuck, preferably anal, then after blowing your load suddenly remember a prior engagement; pull up your pants and rush out the door. I guarantee that you would have had quite an effect on her and left her with more of an impression than submissively licking her **** for a half hour.

Perhaps, you think that the regulars in this thread are a little too radical for your liking. Maybe, deep down inside you believe that we’re just a bunch of bitter bastards; that is perfectly okay but do yourself a favor and visit the Medellin section on the Colombia thread. You will find that guys who don’t post here also have some very revealing views and experiences with foreign women who end up in the United States.

Not related to american women, but feminism in general. Sure food for thought...perhaps the feminists are starting to wake up?

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2006/reader2572.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]DJ,

Don't get bogged down with any particular woman. If you want the best value for your dollars, fuck and flee! Getting too emotionally connected with these women before you really know them is bad business. A lot of European women are players and fucking you is no big deal to them, especially the Swedes. Be careful or you just might end up being someone's chocolate fix and end up pulling up the sheets the next morning with some money on the night stand like Eddie Murphy in Boomerang.

3F those skanks and yell out, "Next!"

Okay, I'm off to finish packing for my trip.[/QUOTE]

"fuck and flee" I like that...........I've committed these comments to memory.

That is so true!

[QUOTE=Wet Nose]Not related to american women, but feminism in general. Sure food for thought...perhaps the feminists are starting to wake up?

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2006/reader2572.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

That story that Wet Nose posted from the British author is SO on the money! The guy's self-acceptance is eye-opening, refreshing and maybe a bit Herculean, after being metaphorically beaten up by western females. I gotta admit the guy gave me a NEW view on the entire subject and I'm LESS apt to be defensive defensive about it if an AW ever found out and interrogated me on the subject.

I have made 2 trips to Thailand for vacation within the last 12 months. People within my workplace know I am single and whenever I say I have come back from Thailand they will either come out directly and pry into my sex life over there, or do so in an indirect manner, basically I feel its clear that they are viewing me as a "sex tourist". I even heard that a single women in the office (who is typically fussy and expects to meet a Brad Pitt even though her clock is ticking - she is 36 y.o. and very average looking) commented to another about me being a sex tourist and I have to travel half way around the world to get some sex.

Now I know for sure within myself I have no problems or issues about myself paying for sex. Yet for some strange reason people talking behind my back like in the above example annoys me a little, even though I know it should not. I was wondering if others on this board experience similar snide remarks or reactions from American women when telling them you have been to Thailand or another country renowned for sex tourists. Does it bother you? I sometimes consider maybe I should say I am going somewhere else on holiday, I just get sick of people obsessed with my sex life just because I am single and frequent such locations. I never would for instance ask a married person in the office how many times a week are you having sex, so I sort of expect not to have to share any intimate relationship details I maybe having on my trips.

My longer term goal is that when I am around 42 y.o. I believe I shall have enough to retire an spend around 4 months of the year across Asia and the rest in Australia, I do not have ambitions to have kids or get married or be in a relationship during my time in Australia. Effectively I have given up dating westernised women for the whole host of reasons that are often discussed here. Yet in the meantime it is driving me mad with friends, family, work colleagues who do not seem to want to accept the fact I want to spend my life different to them, i.e. they are continually trying to set me up on dates despite me saying I am not interested, they are gobsmacked when I say I have no interest in having kids, and think I am a lunatic for not buying a home yet ( I don't want to live in one place all the time and prefer to trade the stockmarket).

Does anyone experience similar fustrations from American women who look down on men such as me who have chosen to give up on them? I think they are shocked that I can lead a very happy life without them.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]That story that Wet Nose posted from the British author is SO on the money! The guy's self-acceptance is eye-opening, refreshing and maybe a bit Herculean, after being metaphorically beaten up by western females. I gotta admit the guy gave me a NEW view on the entire subject and I'm LESS apt to be defensive defensive about it if an AW ever found out and interrogated me on the subject.[/QUOTE]I agree Sinanju Master, a fantastic read, the guy is a great writer. I can relate to so much of what he said, reading particular parts of it I felt it was myself who was talking.

Without doubt one of the best articles I have read in the past couple of years.
Sinanju Master I think that you are very right: it does leave one with a new view on the entire subject.

Regards, Havanaman

Great read for sure.I think he speaks for alot of people on this board.I'm him just 15 years younger.

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]I have made 2 trips to Thailand for vacation within the last 12 months. People within my workplace know I am single and whenever I say I have come back from Thailand they will either come out directly and pry into my sex life over there, or do so in an indirect manner, basically I feel its clear that they are viewing me as a "sex tourist". [/QUOTE]

The cat is out of the bag and, since one cannot unring a bell, you need to change jobs! You well know the low level of respect women give men in our society. It should not surprise you then that you are not accorded privacy regarding your sex life.

I do not blame women for your problem. I blame you! You should have known better than disclose your trip destinations to your coworkers. You should have lied to them, say you are going to Europe, or politely told them to mnd their own business, say that your vacation is escape from work and you do not want to discuss your vacation time at work with coworkers.

I know better. Most other posters know better. So, no! We have not experienced what you are experiencing regarding your travel. I have heard comments baout being middle-aged and single. But I am not considered a catch for AWs so they are not dissappointed that I do not show interest in them.

...for explaining my frequent trips to a snowy Eastern European capital..

"I have friends there" (true)

"I'm meeting my buddy from (third country) there" (true)

"I have a couple of girlfriends there" (true-also keeps people from pinning you down for exact details about your "girlfriend".

"I enjoy the surreal ambiance" (true-I was in the city center for about 5 minutes when about 70 hare krishna's danced and chanted by me....walked by a McDonalds in a quiet part of the city at night to see that a bunch of kids have co-opted it into a dance club....)

"I would live there if I could/It's home away from home" (also true)

"It's incredible-you should go" (probably not true)

Regarding being single, our culture is dominated by female thinking, and religious fucks, neither of whom have any tolerance for lifestyles that do not underwrite their agenda's.

B9k

PS Changing jobs probably isn't a bad idea. Bitches are a hell of a lot more sneaky and manipulative than we are, and if they have figured out that you aren't playing by their rules, it might behoove you to get out of there, and into a masculine dominated environment. I've seen a man fall into disaproval for holding alternative religious beliefs, and the next thing you know, he is being fired on trumped up sexual harassment charges.

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]I have made 2 trips to Thailand for vacation within the last 12 months. People within my workplace know I am single and whenever I say I have come back from Thailand they will either come out directly and pry into my sex life over there, or do so in an indirect manner, basically I feel its clear that they are viewing me as a "sex tourist". I even heard that a single women in the office (who is typically fussy and expects to meet a Brad Pitt even though her clock is ticking - she is 36 y.o. and very average looking) commented to another about me being a sex tourist and I have to travel half way around the world to get some sex…...[/QUOTE]

I am in full agreement with George90. Enough said: its your own fault.

HOWEVER, I think that you should tell this co-worker that you know what she has been saying, you have witnesses and that she should either apologise and stop this nastiness, maliciousness, lies / gossip and hate-mongering or you will escalate this issue to your human resources managers and seek a legal solution…. The idea is to cause her maximum fear of job loss….

As to your other point: its in the nature of a lot of people to “match make”. I should go on a few of these dates and on the very first date get the conversation to “partnerships in place of marriage”, “enjoying life without kids”, “prenuptial agreements in a relationship” etc… you get the point: issue which will make the most ardent cringe… Feedback about these will soon tell your so called friends that you are not playing the “matchmaker game”.

Regards, Havanaman

PS. Who gives a shit what people think: you be yourself but keep your business to yourself...

ABSOLUTELY under no circumstances ever let anyone "fix you up". In western culture, the odds are radically stacked in women's favor, and any chick who can't find dates on her own has SEVERE defects.

Fix ups are usually the opportunity for someone to appease their morbidly obese friend (at your expense) who cries constantly that she can't find a good man (I wonder why)

I wouldn't bother with a confrontation with this woman, or an escalation to HR. Confrontation merely adds fuel to the fire, and as a hetrosexual single male, you effectively have no rights. The HR heirarchy is pretty much there to protect the rest of your working world FROM you. As I said before, you may want to change jobs ASAP. If the field that you work in is female dominated, try to get a (best case scenario divorced) male boss who has been there for a while (and consequently has probably hired most of the people on staff)....bosses tend to replicate themselves in their hiring decisions, and if she is an self righteous unstable judgemental *****, then you will find yourself working in a highly male hostile environment.

B9K

I happen to be an avid photographer with photos to back up my talk for every trip I go on which is a great alibi.The more obscure the location the better(more intresting) the photos.My problem is when I go back to visit places I've already photographed.I was asked what I did in buenos aires for 2 weeks without leaving the city...if they only knew.
Screw people who bad talk you your one of the very few people who can travel with that you become more intelligent and harder to manipulate.Everyone should be so lucky.
I agree with what was said about harassment it's no different than what women go through.

don't worry, dude. I was in a slightly similar situation last year when I returned from the Philippines. A female salesperson and our female receptionist found out about my trip and the salesperson queried me DIRECTLY while the recptionist did it subtly. I detected a bit of indignation in the salesperson (that I would actually go halfway around the world and fuck hot young honeys even having payed for it). She said (and I quote): "I hear that they treat their men like kings". I thought to myself: "You are SO FUCKING RIGHT, Shamu"! The fact that I was able to choose my sexual partner (age, looks, and body type) must have INCENSED her. She was incensed that I was no longer in the US, no longer subject to the whims of women who attempt to control me through sexual means. She was incensed that I removed the ONE element through which all AW's attempt to control men. ON TOP OF THAT, she was incensed that I was so relaxed and easy going when I returned. These two broads tried to convince me that I should get married, have kids, blah blah blah. After they found out my sexual foray to the other side of the world changed my outlook for the better, they tossed in the towel and accepted defeat. So, Ozzie T, continue to do what you're doing and DON'T hide the fact that your forays recharge your batteries and make Life seem wonderful. THAT is what makes your female nemesis green with envy and that's what makes her conjure excuses for why you are a loser in her eyes. Take heart, Young Padawan! The Force will be with you... always

Ozzie T,

You should avoid any discussions about your private life on the job. The subject of sex is to be especially avoided in the work place! As a male you open yourself up to all kinds of allegations when you permit women to discuss your personal life.

You should draw your boundaries with female co-workers. In the future keep your mouth shut about your vacations. If someone inquires about your vacation just say that it was fine and leave it at that; should they insist on details, tell them that after returning from your last vacation some very nasty and inappropriate things were said about you. Therefore you have decided to keep your affairs private in order to prevent further slandering of your character.

If you were the one making remarks about this woman's sex life you'd have already been fired!

[QUOTE=George90]The cat is out of the bag and, since one cannot unring a bell, you need to change jobs! You well know the low level of respect women give men in our society. It should not surprise you then that you are not accorded privacy regarding your sex life.

I do not blame women for your problem. I blame you! You should have known better than disclose your trip destinations to your coworkers. You should have lied to them, say you are going to Europe, or politely told them to mnd their own business, say that your vacation is escape from work and you do not want to discuss your vacation time at work with coworkers.

I know better. Most other posters know better. So, no! We have not experienced what you are experiencing regarding your travel. I have heard comments baout being middle-aged and single. But I am not considered a catch for AWs so they are not dissappointed that I do not show interest in them.[/QUOTE]Well that is an interesting response George. I must admit I was expecting people to say why on earth am I worried about what others think , and that lying about where you go on vacation is rediculous.

Anyway I am certainly not changing jobs! But the idea of lying about where I go on vaction is appealing and I nearly did this last time. When you say the cat is out of the bag, well that may be true to a large extent, but to put this into perspective, I have worked at this place for nearly 7 years. In that time I have done plenty of vactions across Australia, also the U.S. and Europe aswell as these recent couple of asia trips, so maybe the cat is not quite out of the bag yet if you know where I am coming from.

Anyway thanks for the tip George. I will say thought that I did know this would occur, I guess I just thought I wouldn't care what anyone else thinks, to me that is a great way to live. However I just misread how I would feel not how woman would think, and it turns out it bothers me a little.

[QUOTE=Bart9000]
PS Changing jobs probably isn't a bad idea. Bitches are a hell of a lot more sneaky and manipulative than we are, and if they have figured out that you aren't playing by their rules, it might behoove you to get out of there, and into a masculine dominated environment. I've seen a man fall into disaproval for holding alternative religious beliefs, and the next thing you know, he is being fired on trumped up sexual harassment charges.[/QUOTE]

That is the reason for my suggestion to change jobs; to avoid a sexual harassment accusation or worse. From stories I have heard, and frm the attitude of many women, I would not put it past a woman to report OT to the police, or other law enforcement (FBI) accusing him of having sex with minors or travelling for the purpose of illegal sex.

I hope EVERYONE knows and fully understands that it is against US law for a US citizen or US permanent resident to travel abroad for the purpose of engaging in prostitution. The law is rarely enforced, so far only for sex with minors. But it is INSANE to have one's coworkers gossiping about your having sex with prostitiutes in Thailand. It WILL get to someone in LE, via a feminist, and you will have to explain a HIGHLY exaggerated story to a detective threatening you with arrest.

With all due respect, **I don't want to start a flame war**, but you guys who are advising OT to flaunt his mongering to women in their faces at his job, are just plain dumb.

[QUOTE=Havanaman]I am in full agreement with George90. Enough said: its your own fault.

HOWEVER, I think that you should tell this co-worker that you know what she has been saying, you have witnesses and that she should either apologise and stop this nastiness, maliciousness, lies / gossip and hate-mongering or you will escalate this issue to your human resources managers and seek a legal solution. The idea is to cause her maximum fear of job loss.

As to your other point: its in the nature of a lot of people to “match make”. I should go on a few of these dates and on the very first date get the conversation to “partnerships in place of marriage”, “enjoying life without kids”, “prenuptial agreements in a relationship” etc… you get the point: issue which will make the most ardent cringe… Feedback about these will soon tell your so called friends that you are not playing the “matchmaker game”.

Regards, Havanaman

PS. Who gives a shit what people think: you be yourself but keep your business to yourself...[/QUOTE]Thanks Havanaman and anyone replying about this topic. I just wanted to say that confronting this woman or turning this into a HR issue is way out of the question. This annoyed me a little, enough to post here about it, but no where near enough to make a big issue about it, I am not slashing my wrists over the event.

Your last quote was interesting, as it is hard to be myself yet keep such a significant part about myself private. And when I say this I am not talking or referring about mongering. Whilst a massive part of my Thailand trips are the women, also a big part is travelling in general, hence my many holidays through America and Europe destinations that are not known as sex tourist locations. So it is a bit unusual for me to jetset across the world and not come back and talk about my travels as a lot of people are interested, so it will not be that easy to lie, I guess I will have to get used to it.

[QUOTE=George90]That is the reason for my suggestion to change jobs; to avoid a sexual harassment accusation or worse. From stories I have heard, and frm the attitude of many women, I would not put it past a woman to report OT to the police, or other law enforcement (FBI) accusing him of having sex with minors or travelling for the purpose of illegal sex.

I hope EVERYONE knows and fully understands that it is against US law for a US citizen or US permanent resident to travel abroad for the purpose of engaging in prostitution. The law is rarely enforced, so far only for sex with minors. But it is INSANE to have one's coworkers gossiping about your having sex with prostitiutes in Thailand. It WILL get to someone in LE, via a feminist, and you will have to explain a HIGHLY exaggerated story to a detective threatening you with arrest.

With all due respect, **I don't want to start a flame war**, but you guys who are advising OT to flaunt his mongering to women in their faces at his job, are just plain dumb.[/QUOTE]I also want to clarify I have never talked about my sexual exploits over there. It is just often assumed. If a conversation starts to head that way from someone else I always say I had no luck with the women or whatever. Maybe that is why the whole thing bothers me, I have never said I had any sort of relationship with women over there.

[QUOTE=George90]That is the reason for my suggestion to change jobs; to avoid a sexual harassment accusation or worse. From stories I have heard, and frm the attitude of many women, I would not put it past a woman to report OT to the police, or other law enforcement (FBI) accusing him of having sex with minors or travelling for the purpose of illegal sex.

I hope EVERYONE knows and fully understands that it is against US law for a US citizen or US permanent resident to travel abroad for the purpose of engaging in prostitution. The law is rarely enforced, so far only for sex with minors. But it is INSANE to have one's coworkers gossiping about your having sex with prostitiutes in Thailand. It WILL get to someone in LE, via a feminist, and you will have to explain a HIGHLY exaggerated story to a detective threatening you with arrest.

With all due respect, **I don't want to start a flame war**, but you guys who are advising OT to flaunt his mongering to women in their faces at his job, are just plain dumb.[/QUOTE]So it is common for women to report single men in the 30's for holidaying in Thailand to the police because it is speculated they are visiting for illegal sex? Come on lets not get too carried away.

[QUOTE=Artisttyp]I happen to be an avid photographer with photos to back up my talk for every trip I go on which is a great alibi.The more obscure the location the better(more intresting) the photos.My problem is when I go back to visit places I've already photographed.I was asked what I did in buenos aires for 2 weeks without leaving the city...if they only knew.

Screw people who bad talk you your one of the very few people who can travel with that you become more intelligent and harder to manipulate.Everyone should be so lucky.

I agree with what was said about harassment it's no different than what women go through.[/QUOTE]You could say the same for me too. As I have said I have worked at this place for nearly 7 years, done trips to America and many European destinations and came back with many photos ( the tourist type not the mongering type!) before the latest trips to Thailand. With Thailand when I went the second time I said I went to check out different places to the first trip after hearing good reports and I came back with different photos of different places. And years before I have done second trips to the same country for the same reason. But as far as Thailand goes, it seems if you are a single male, no matter what excuses you are have for going there, it is guaranteed women will assume you are a sex tourist, no doubt about it.

I'm DUMB for knowing my boss is an Alpha male type who gets off on the types of exploits I went through in the Philippines. I'd be TRULY dumb if I actually spoke IN DETAIL about what happened on my trip to these broads. The fact is that I only told said broads that I WENT to the Philippines and their imaginations supplied the REST. I didn't dissuade them from what they thought. If they wanted to bring me up on sexual harassment charges as someone who is willing to point an accusing finger SUGGESTS, they would have only their accusations (NOT supported by the rest of my company AT ALL). That being said, if I'd be accused by the Thought Police, then I'd have no defense at all and I'd be GUILTY simply because their agents SAID SO.

So, Ozz, be subtle about it. I NEVER said to be graphic about your exploits as someone ASSUMED. If these harpies wanna charge you for sexual harassment simply because they INFERRED that you had sex with younger women, the burden of proof is upon THEM. If it's found out that they cried wolf (as I'm sure it will be) more people in your company will be enlightened to that fact.

I was going to bring up earlier after Sin's first post, that it depends on your work environment how big a deal this is...Sin pointed out that there really isn't too much to be done if there is a manly man in charge of your work environment, the bitches aren't in a power position (like married to the owner)and there (appearently) isn't an HR department for them to go crying to. Conversely, if your immediate supervisor is a chick, and you work for a big lawsuit adverse corporation,, you could have a problem. Remember by the way that women generally do not have any sense of fair play, and don't see a problem with ruining your career because they judgementally don't approve of your vacation activities.

I also have to point out that OT is from Oz. We have possibly mistakenly assumed that Oz's sexual harassment laws are as wacko as those in the US (almost any behavior can labled SH at the whim of any woman-----I once had a complaint which was in part due to me being "too nice"). I do not definitively know this, but it may be that it (the wacky laws) are not the case.

One more thing about the match making deal-I have a very nice, very friendly female cousin that doesn't really talk to me anymore when I declined to continue seeing her best friend (a 300 pounder-she was nice at least but..) after a blind date. I was kind and respectful to the girl but it was a no win situation, that I recommend staying out of by categorically rejecting "fix ups"

B9k

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]I'm DUMB for knowing my boss is an Alpha male type who gets off on the types of exploits I went through in the Philippines.[/QUOTE]

Your individual work environment is larger than you think it is. Even if you think you are keeping it only between you and your sympathetic boss, the walls have ears.

Your firm interacts with other firms. You have clients. If any of those clients here about "The guys at Someco went to Thailand and banged a bunch of *****s for almost no money.", you may be lucky to only lose that client's business. Women in your client's firm can complain about sexual harassment by employees of other firms. Then you have a problem.

You have employees of other firms come into your firm to do work. Lawyers who review contracts, auditors, etc. Let them hear about your Thai exploits and again you can have serious problems. Those workers, the employees of other firms working on your firm's premises, can complain about sexual harassment by your firm's employees.

After you have gotten into the habit of discussing your Thai exploits with sympathetic coworkers, you may find it difficult to turn off the bragging at appropriate times. You may be careless and let "sensitive" people overhear you.

Sex monger talk is NOT appropriate in the workplace. Don't do it at all, and you will have few problems. You will not have ANY problems, if you never discuss things that or even tangentally related to mongering, such as taking a vacation to Thailand.

I just remembered an example of what I described below. I used to work as an auditor. The senior of the audit team LOVED to talk and be the center of everyone's attention. He would tell jokes to us and the client's workers, make remarks, compliments, insults, anything that involved running his mouth.

In one of his off-the-cuff smart alec remarks, he said something that one or more of the client's staff felt disparaged their position. At least one woman then went around complaining to EVERYONE about what he said and how offended and slighted she was. She complained to her boss, the controller, in front of me and several other mid-to-high level executives. I don't know if the audit partner was told and what happened afterward. I only know that he kept his job.

My main point is, you do not need the grief, SO DON'T RISK IT!!!

I work for a plumbing supply warehouse. 95% of the customers that walk thorugh the doors are MEN (plumbers) who speak as I do. On the rare occasion that a WOMAN walks through the door, I fill their order with the courtesy required and treat them as valued customers. We now have ONE woman working for us (a totally DIFFERENT one), and I have not nor do I need to tell her about my views or forays. I've never been fired or THREATENED to be fired for sexual harassment, HOWEVER, I've been on the RECEIVING end of it.

Yes, my work environment IS larger than I think. ALL the males in KEY positions think as I do. IN FACT, these key males are bigger *****s than I am. It's pretty much a good ol' boys club, and my stories of my vacation exploits are welcomed. I learned from a different environment a few years ago of the dangers of doing what I do NOW.

My sex monger talk is kept among men who wish to do as I do.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]My sex monger talk is kept among men who wish to do as I do.[/QUOTE]

Very well said: I totally agree. Whilst I see the issues involved and eloquently discussed here, I must add that it is purely a personal thing dependent on ones job, environment, like-minded co-workers etc.

I work in a supposedly high level professional job. I monger. No one knows about it with the exception of two other guys who also monger; we swap stories, skills, locations information and the like, indeed we have mongered together and have photographs of each-other mongering (some nude with chicas!). These friendships have been going for the past 22 years since pre-med and we are all happy with ourselves. We remain true to the faith and each other knowing that any breakdown would damage all concerned, especially since one of the gang is married with kids.

In advocating that we be ourselves I’m not suggesting that we walk about with a “sandwich-board” announcing that we are mongers. I’m talking about general behaviour and conduct which includes discretion, confidentiality and trust amongst “men who wish to do as I do”.

In the final analysis its no ones business where anyone goes, what anyone gets up to and indeed if it's paid for or not. I do not believe that we will ever be in a global majority society that is accepting of mongering especially since there is always confusion about prostitution and sex slavery: very well discussed by Sinanju Master:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1076[/url]

This being the case we owe it to ourselves and other mongers to keep the faith.

OT, clearly this issue does not need to be escalated. One of the best “lies” I have told to cover my solo-mongering is just to say that I want to cover as much of the planet as possible before I die. In the same breath I pull out my well thumbed and marked copy of the lonely planets guide to wherever I’m going to be mongering. The coloured marker-tabs and underlining of interesting parts validates the adventurer tourist…. The co-worker soon gets pissed off (or indeed jealous) of me pointing to this or that place and I soon get labelled as the local crazy person who likes to travel… This is a truth simply because when you monger I would guess you also visit at the very least a couple of touristy places on rest periods!….

Regards, Havanaman

[QUOTE=Havanaman]Very well said: I totally agree. Whilst I see the issues involved and eloquently discussed here, I must add that it is purely a personal thing dependent on ones job, environment, like-minded co-workers etc.

I work in a supposedly high level professional job. I monger. No one knows about it with the exception of two other guys who also monger; we swap stories, skills, locations information and the like, indeed we have mongered together and have photographs of each-other mongering (some nude with chicas!). These friendships have been going for the past 22 years since pre-med and we are all happy with ourselves. We remain true to the faith and each other knowing that any breakdown would damage all concerned, especially since one of the gang is married with kids.

In advocating that we be ourselves I’m not suggesting that we walk about with a “sandwich-board” announcing that we are mongers. I’m talking about general behaviour and conduct which includes discretion, confidentiality and trust amongst “men who wish to do as I do”.

In the final analysis its no ones business where anyone goes, what anyone gets up to and indeed if it's paid for or not. I do not believe that we will ever be in a global majority society that is accepting of mongering especially since there is always confusion about prostitution and sex slavery: very well discussed by Sinanju Master:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1076[/url]

This being the case we owe it to ourselves and other mongers to keep the faith.

OT, clearly this issue does not need to be escalated. One of the best “lies” I have told to cover my solo-mongering is just to say that I want to cover as much of the planet as possible before I die. In the same breath I pull out my well thumbed and marked copy of the lonely planets guide to wherever I’m going to be mongering. The coloured marker-tabs and underlining of interesting parts validates the adventurer tourist…. The co-worker soon gets pissed off (or indeed jealous) of me pointing to this or that place and I soon get labelled as the local crazy person who likes to travel… This is a truth simply because when you monger I would guess you also visit at the very least a couple of touristy places on rest periods!….

Regards, Havanaman[/QUOTE]That last paragraph is a good point Havanaman. I have used that one too, and it is quite plausible since my overseas travel does not appear to be related to mongering when you look at it over a longer time frame and all the variety of places I visited. Just that 2 consecutive Thailand trips seemed to at least raise the eyebrows of some. However my next trip will be somewhere different altogether again, so I will at the very least go with the "cover as many places on the planet before I die" comment.

One thing that concerns me with lying about where I am going, even though it would be highly unlikely, is someone somehow finding out where I really went. For example imagine if my last trip I told people I am going on a holiday within Australia, then someone , maybe an industry colleague or client or whoever, spots me in Thailand. How bad does that look, i.e. if I lie about where I am going and will not tell people I am going to Thailand, obviously I am doing something involving prostitution or god knows what. That would be the assumption and be even worse I think..

limiting monger talk to only those who also partake is the prudent thing to do.

those who have jobs that are male dominated are at less risk from discussing the hobby than those who have jobs like mine. i am in education now, which is female dominated. i have a colleague who talks of his mongering exploits with "the guys". i think he is foolish to do so. i limit my monger talk to anonymous forums.

still, there remains risk when discussing non-anonymous mongering even only with other mongerers. when looking for ****hopiles, le does exactly that. they become friends with a suspected **** and then encourage him to talk about his exploits.

clearly we all live in different circumstances. we need to evaluate the risk inherent in our particular circumstance and then decide on the appropriate level of disclosure.

mine is none! your mileage may vary!

Speaking of Phillippines, I met a filipina in a local disco in Chicago recently. Nice good looking girl with a killer body. She has been in the USA for 9 years and is aapparently a successful real estate agent. As it turned out, she lived about 45 miles from my area. Next day we talked on the phone and were discussing where to meet. She only wanted to meet around her area. She told me that she has dated couple guys from my area and they would drive to her house, pick her up, drive back to Chicago for dinner, drop her back to her house and then drive back home ! Needless to say that I refused. I told her that I was in Manilla and literally thousands of pretty girls were game. She did not say a word. But I was amazed that there are so many "pussy starved" guys in this country who would go virtually any length to get women from opening car door to licking her feet to get a kick in the ass. USA for women must be what Thailand, Phillippines, China, EE, Brazil etc for us mongers. USA is a pussy hell.

[QUOTE=Badboy27] USA for women must be what Thailand, Phillippines, China, EE, Brazil etc for us mongers. USA is a pussy hell.[/QUOTE]

Badboy,

You summed up the situation very accurately and concisely. It's good to see that there are a few guys left who are not desparate to the point of being a door mat. I bet the look on her face was priceless when she realized that you knew the way things are in her homeland!

I've seen this many times, foreign women arrive in the US and soon adapt the ways of AW. I guess that they realize the market value of bearded tuna is much higher here and hence try to get as much out of it as they can. Some of these women get so drunk with their new pussy powers that they become even worst than the natives.

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]
One thing that concerns me with lying about where I am going, even though it would be highly unlikely, is someone somehow finding out where I really went. For example imagine if my last trip I told people I am going on a holiday within Australia, then someone , maybe an industry colleague or client or whoever, spots me in Thailand. How bad does that look, i.e. if I lie about where I am going and will not tell people I am going to Thailand, obviously I am doing something involving prostitution or god knows what. That would be the assumption and be even worse I think..[/QUOTE]

Dude, where you go on vacation and what you do (within legal means) is none of your colleagues' god-damn business. IF someone circulates bad karma about you, it's because it's either a GUY thinking: "Man, I wish I was doing what that rat bastard is doing" (jealousy), or a WOMAN thinking: "I HATE that bastard because I don't have the power to reject him and quash his ego since he knows what time it is" (spite). Besides, a while back, I went to ANOTHER country in ADDITION to the country where I went on vacation to. The other country I went to (for a week) is where I hooked up with a honey. In that week on my side trip, the ONLY time we left the bed was to get something to eat.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]DJFourMoney:

Do you think that we preach about the pitfalls of becoming involved with American and Americanized women because we have nothing better to do? It seems that all of the warnings and admonishments are futile; guys keep repeating the same behavior that gets them burned.

Let us see, this Hungarian woman lived in the United States for 6 years but you thought that she was “totally unaffected by the typical thinking of American women”. DJ, if you really believed that, I have a nice lobster farm in Central Georgia that I would like to sell you. Don’t worry, I’ll give you a good price and all of the lobsters have been de-clawed to spare you those nasty pinches.

So here you go, smitten with this totally Un-Americanized immigrant who has been residing in the US for 6 years; you cancel your mongering trip to Europe while this self professed visa hunter puts you on hold to finish securing a permanent green card from her sponsor; you dine on her [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] flaps for a half hour and then she tells your efforts didn’t have the slightest effect upon her. Then she tells you that you can be friends. Well, DJ pardon my honesty, but that sounds terribly American to me. You got played in a really bad way.

I remember that my last words to you regarding this woman were to “fuck and flee”. Instead, you chose to be Mr. Nice Guy and you finished last. Is that any surprise? How were you going to excite her when you did what every other sucker does by trying very hard to please her? You were too nice and sensitive making excuses for your performance; wasting your time licking her [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] hole. What you should have done was cut your 10 minute master stroke to a vicious 5 minute beast fuck, preferably anal, then after blowing your load suddenly remember a prior engagement; pull up your pants and rush out the door. I guarantee that you would have had quite an effect on her and left her with more of an impression than submissively licking her **** for a half hour.

Perhaps, you think that the regulars in this thread are a little too radical for your liking. Maybe, deep down inside you believe that we’re just a bunch of bitter bastards; that is perfectly okay but do yourself a favor and visit the Medellin section on the Colombia thread. You will find that guys who don’t post here also have some very revealing views and experiences with foreign women who end up in the United States.[/QUOTE]


Bitter? Never....

I take heed, I learn the hard way...

I have read some of the rants about Columbian women that have ended up in the US and dispatched their husbands.

Without getting into the what seems like (in many cases) a case of May-Dec relationships gone arye, I'd still say its a pretty small number of women that get tainted like that.

Said German lady also has 3 kids from the same relationship and always had to tell me how bad her kids were on a regular basis, especially when she's on the phone.

All is not lost however, Europe still beckons and I will make my appearance in late Sept or Oct or if I don't mind the cold weather, maybe later than that.

I will not make the same mistake twice.

Sorry DJ but never ever change your plans for some hoe.I've learned once you do that you show weakness and the ability to be manipulated.You had this whole trip to europe planned and you threw it away because some skank gave you a wink.It would have shown more intrest on her part if she attempted to fit into your schedule thats when you know you have something meaningful.
I guess you really want to go to europe but have you researched other options? You could go this month to buenos aires spend less and get more.The mix of women in BA is very similar to europe.


Artisttyp

Tom Philpott | May 26, 2006
Senators Vote to End Ex-Spouse Law's '10-Year Rule'

The Senate Armed Services Committee has voted to end the "10-year rule" used by the government for more than two decades to screen court orders seeking automatic payment of retired pay to former military spouses.

The change is one of three adjustments to the Uniformed Services Former Spouses Protection Act (USFSPA) in the Senate’s version of the 2007 defense authorization bill (S 2766). All three are intended to streamline administration of the controversial 1982 law, said Senate staff.

If approved by the full Congress, the changes would be the first made to the military ex-spouse law in 14 years. They would ease how future court orders are handled for former spouses rather than past court orders.

The 10-year rule has required the Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) to turn away requests for automatic payment of retired pay to ex-spouses unless the couple had been married at least 10 years during which the service member completed 10 years of creditable service.

The rule’s elimination "would solve a lot of problems," said Marsha Warthen, board president of Ex-POSE, a military former spouse support group. "We are contacted regularly by spouses who just missed the 10-year requirement."

The 10-year rule would end 120 days after the bill is signed. Retroactive sharing of benefits based on the change would be prohibited.

Change two in the Senate Bill would direct DFAS to comply with all court requests for making cost-of-living adjustments to ex-spouse shares of retirement. DFAS now applies COLAs only to ex-spouse shares set as a percentage of a retiree’s annuity. COLAs are not applied to ex-spouse shares that courts state in dollar amounts. This change would apply to court orders that take affect 90 days after the bill is enacted.

The third change would end a requirement that DFAS notify retirees and provide them copy when DFAS receives a court order directing division of retired pay. The Senate would shave that paperwork burden by forwarding court orders only to retirees who had told DFAS they want to be notified.

Warthen said future ex-spouses will be most pleased to see the 10-year rule end. When DFAS is barred from assisting with automatic payments, courts order retirees to make payments directly to ex-spouses. But many former spouses can’t "track down" retirees, she said.

"It causes great expense for spouses who have minimal income and minimal leverage to recoup [missed payments] or to go back to court for enforcement. Some of them just give up," said Warthen.

The 10-year rule also has been an irritant to retirees. If DFAS can’t accommodate a court order, it continues to withhold taxes on full annuities, including whatever portion the retiree pays directly to an ex-spouse. This can complicate retiree plans to have ex-spouses share the tax burden.

The 10-year rule also can confuse lawyers, judges, retirees and spouses. The term suggests that retired pay can’t be divided unless a marriage lasts a decade. In fact, the 10-year rule impacts only automatic payments DFAS. As many retirees will attest, divorce court judges can, and do, divide retirement as property for marriages of any length.

Frank W. Ault, executive director of the American Retirees Association, an advocacy group for divorced military retirees, said ARA supports the Senate changes. Indeed, "abolition of the 10-year rule was one of our recommendations," said Ault, referring to a package of legislative changes ARA drafted for Congress to consider last year. No lawmaker could be found to introduce it as legislation, however.

Ault said one ARA concern with the 10-year rule has been that without DFAS handling all court orders to divide retired pay, "we never really have known what the [USFSPA] population is out there. It’s an advantage for us to know that" in pushing Congress to make more substantive changes.

DFAS says it now divides with ex-spouses the retired pay of 82,887 military retirees. That number includes 4,046 court orders received in 2005 that satisfied the 10-year rule.

The House and Senate continue to approach the USFSPA with caution, avoiding changes perceived as tipping the law in favor of either retirees or of ex-spouses. The rationale for the Senate bill changes are taken from a comprehensive review of USFSPA that Defense officials completed in 2001.

The committee’s own report mimics the DoD study in finding "overwhelming justification" for abolishing the 10-year rule. It notes that no other known retirement system or plan carries such a restriction. It says repeal would prevent courts, lawyers, retirees and spouses "from mistakenly interpreting this rule as a prerequisite to allocation of retired pay."

Still not addressed by Congress, said Ault, "are the major problems that military people have" with the USFSPA. "They still resent having their pay called 'property.' They still resent giving it to a spouse for life for a marriage of minutes. They still would like to get rid of the windfall benefit," a reference to courts dividing retired pay without taking into account the affect of promotions and pay raises earned after the marriage dissolved.

And a growing number of service members, said Ault, resent court orders that force them to share retired pay before they actually retire. Both the House and Senate again this year have ignored a Defense Department request to ban court orders that involve such “imputation of retired pay."

"The [Senate] changes are constructive," Ault said, "but far below what’s needed to get this law on track."

Heard on the radio today that their is a motion in British parliament to create laws regarding the financial aspects of common law marriages, which would essentially create the same kind of alimony payment rules associated with divorce in those cases were common law marriages fail.

This essentially would mean that if you lived with a women for more than a few years, but were not married, and then split up, you would have to pay her a part of your earnings as compensation for your time together.

I have no details as I only heard it on the radio, and am not sure if it has any chance of passing parliament into law, but it is yet another sign that men are being enslaved. Soon women will wonder why no one wants to marry any more or enter into any commiting relationship.

And here more proof that the world has gone insane.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_on_fe_st/matchmaker_lawsuit[/url]

[QUOTE=Artisttyp]Sorry DJ but never ever change your plans for some hoe.I've learned once you do that you show weakness and the ability to be manipulated.You had this whole trip to europe planned and you threw it away because some skank gave you a wink.It would have shown more intrest on her part if she attempted to fit into your schedule thats when you know you have something meaningful.
I guess you really want to go to europe but have you researched other options? You could go this month to buenos aires spend less and get more.The mix of women in BA is very similar to europe.


Artisttyp[/QUOTE]

I have -

I was looking at doing BsA and Sau Paulo at first. Problem with that is the language barrier, especially in SP where seems only some business owners people that have spent time in the US and college students know any english.

I have talked to Sama Guide many times, but felt even though he personally thought I wouldn't have a problem pulling non-pro talent, I just wasn't up to learning any Portuguese when I considering where I live would get more out of learning Spanish and I wasn't down for that either.

I also wasn't really diggin the idea of it being a pure mongering trip...

I contacted a few "brothas" that have been to BsA, all reported excellent times from the mongering point of view but hardly any information on the non-pro side of things.

I'll be going there, maybe early next year. Its fairly cheap any time of year, but I still need a visa to visit Brasil.

Europe offers a few more options and I do have a friend or two over there, which allows me to save some money and spent it elsewhere.

My mission purely depends on how much availalble income I have to take with me (to monger). So I'm mainly focusing on non-pro talent because we can communicate online or by Skype. I have changed my approach a bit in this area as I want to be flexible to do what I want. I'll get some mongering in because I do want to see some of the clubs talked about in the Germany forums and maybe even hit Prague, tho I understand that can cause some communication issues as well.

I just wanted to have a good time and I just feel I'll have a better first time abroad in Europe.

> I am fresh back today from 10 days in Argentina. Today I am very sad and almost in tears.

I can totally relate. Chicago is a hell inside another hell when it comes to women. Everytime I am flying back to O'hare, I wonder why in the world am I going back there. Atleast 50% of the women in this city must be overweight to put it mildly and can be outright ignored. And those 10-15% of the good looking available women need everything you have got and THEN she may reward you with tuna some day.

First these women are more interested in their career, their friends and dogs than men. Period. You can see a gorgeous girl picking after her dog in broad day light but don't ever expect her to do anything for you. If she did give you a card on your birthday, she is expecting nothing less than diamond-n-pearls on her birthday. Secondly, they are totally accustomed to men doing every single thing for them. They take it for granted and they easily get it in Chicago. I recently went out with a pretty Ukrainian girl who is a mortgage broker. Same story - she married a rich guy and then ofcourse divorced once she was here. She was exclaiming how easy it was to make money for her in the mortgage industry and how men love fat women here and have kids with them. She dates with as many men as the time permits and makes a lot of money in the mortgage industry (you don't need a degree for that).

Luckily, I get the opportunities to go to Asia and Europe several times a year and I know the difference. Most men are born in Illinois, live in Illnois and die in Illinois so they would never know. If you tell this to AWs (and their husbands too) they will paint you as a loser who couldn't get hold of an AW and has to resort to foreign women. Some may even tell you that you need God. Funny.

Marak & Badboy,

I'm a Chicago guy too and have had identical observations. I monger in Eastern Europe and landing at O'Hare is about as bad as it gets. Just walking through the airport and looking at all of those fat, ugly women with attitudes is a major downer. I have also found Milwaukee to be much worse than Chicago - if such a thing is possible.

I wish that we had a forum on the ISG dealing with immigration to foreign countries for punters. There is a website called escapeartistcom that I have looked at. It's a good website and has a lot of information on specific countries dealing with visas, real estate, getting a drivers license there, etc.

You know, once you go abroad to meet women, you spend much of your time here in the states wishing you were someplace else. It's a strange way to proceed through life it seems.

Paddy

I'm sure you guys know that I'm from that area also....gotta say from experience that there is nothing like growing up as a hot girl in a little nothing shit midwestern community (small, homogenous and highly hierarchal) to cause a belief that the world revolves around their pussies (then they move to Chicago taking the attitude with them). Say what you will about New York haughty,, but at least living there you have to be aware that there is a world outside the cornfields that surround you.

Regarding "needing God", I was last week, during a bus ride, subjected to a conversion attempt by a fundamentalist pastor.....I just kept smiling and nodding, and laughing inside as this guy thought he was just speaking to a "lost" young man, unmarried and childless at 35 (this drew some derisive looks-talk about the tip of the iceberg)......in reality, I am probably the closest thing to a full blown HIERATIC that he has ever encountered in real life.

B9k

Also notice how every dating site has a banner displaying a stunning chick (not guy) looking for her soulmate. This clearly says that the marketing department has done their DD. They know who the target audience is. There are a lot of men roaming this country with their pp in the hand. Talking to polish, russian, asian immigrant women is an eye opener. They feel like a kid in the toy store when they come to the USA. You can find them on any personals site. Just search on languages (polish, Japanese, russian etc). There are a lot of EE girls working as mortgage-reale-state brokers in Chicago. Much easier and rewarding but dont expect anything even close to Asia Europe or latin America. They know what they are worth here. With the coming crash of the real-estate market, hopefully the tuna market will improve. Currently, almost all EE women I dated drive brand new cars, live in their own house-condos and have plenty of money to spend.

This is what an AW expects when dating: [url]http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=6056&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=8233[/url]

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]This is what an AW expects when dating: [url]http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=6056&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=8233[/url][/QUOTE]

With all due respect, CM, aren't most of us here to STOP dating AWs??!!??!!??!!?? Most of us already know, from painful experience, what AWs expect. We are tired of trying to give it and have moved on.

[QUOTE=Cyberdas]Movies

In all those Tracy-Hepburn movies more than a half-century ago, it was the snap and crackle of a romance between equals that was so exciting. You still see it onscreen occasionally - the incendiary chemistry of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie playing married assassins aiming for mutually assured orgasms and destruction in "Mr. and Mrs. Smith." Interestingly, that movie was described as retro because of its salty battle of wits between two peppery lovers. Moviemakers these days are more interested in exploring what Steve Martin, in his novel "Shopgirl," calls the "calm cushion" of romances between unequals. [/QUOTE]I just viewed "Shopgirl". To me it paints the picture that an older man is an exploiter of young women AKA the bad guy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Martin's character did pay off the balance of Dane's character's loans. But I did enjoy the not-at-all-unrealistic blonde that gave Dane's character advice and how to manipulate men.

I recommend forum members watch this movie.

[QUOTE=Marak5]Damn I am back and still on a high from this playboy material type girl I had in argentina. I loved it! She was very high end and cost 200usd, but this type of high class escort could go for 1000usd in nyc so I thought it was worth it.

Anyways now that I had a women of that quality, thats all I want. I want to date hot women only. Not fat chicks allowed. No average chicks allowed for that matter either. Of course I figure I should hold up my end and make some decent cash to deserve this type of woman. But hey, thats what I want.

I am telling some of my guy friends about this new attitude I have and they are the biggest pussies. One guy, a dentist making like 200k a year is dating some ratty 33 year old because of her cool personality. This guy is young and good looking, with a nice house in an affluent suburb. And he cant even pull hot tail, and Im just like man. Hes telling me about how a personality in a women is more important. Does any man truly believe this? Yeah a good personality is ok, but Ive seen the light. T&A is way more important.

This other guy is telling me the same shit. About how you gotta find someone you can get along and just live with. Its all bullshit about how marriages are supposed to be some kind of equal partnership. Fuck that!

How about, Im the man, I make the money, and I got a hot wife who gives me good sex. Fuck the partnership. Fuck equality. Cool personality and getting along is secondary to the bedroom. I need sex from a hot chick more than I need a friend.

ok thats my rant.[/QUOTE]


Why Marak,

You OBVIOUSLY just don't understand that our role as hardworking, honest, boring nice guys (like your friend the dentist)is to work hard to develop wealth and an income stream while pathetically stroking ourselves at home on Saturday night as the girls throw a big party for the dramatic fuckups and losers, players, pretty boys, rock stars, pro athletes.....you just have to wait until after the party is over for them to drag their exhausted, hungover, well fucked asses over to the phone to call you and offer you some of the leftovers in exchange for helping them clean up the mess.

Now there is a need for balance in all things, and it would be better to have a cool, well adjusted, funny charming "8" than a psychotic, high maintenance prozac princess of a "10". But still.....

..........the people who think that a "modern western marriage" is "equal" can go and fuck themselves. "The previous arangement" was at least EQUITABLE.....men made decisions and bore the brunt of harsh reality....women deferred, but were sheltered, provided for, and protected. Now, women believe that they should have all of the privleges that they had before, PLUS decision making power--basically making the husband into a work horse.

B9K

[QUOTE=Bart9000]
Now, women believe that they should have all of the privleges that they had before, PLUS decision making power--basically making the husband into a work horse. B9K[/QUOTE]

they want the privileges and decision-making power WITHOUT the responsibilities that come WITH IT!

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]This is what an AW expects when dating: [url]http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=6056&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=8233[/url][/QUOTE]Giveaway #1: He wants less sex.

What it reveals: Believe it or not, less action means has lost interest in having sex with you or, possibly, he is dead.

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]Giveaway #1: He wants less sex.

What it reveals: Believe it or not, less action means has lost interest in having sex with you or, possibly, he is dead.[/QUOTE]It's INSANE if he is less interested in sex and more interested in filling air in her tires. She must have driven him insane. From the article it's clear that's the kind of man an AW wants. Yet there are so many pussy wimps out there who would try to act accordingly in hopes of getting a bit of action.

[url]http://nomarriage.com/[/url] is a great site

[url]http://nomarriage.com/perfectguy.html[/url]

Too bad these guys wake up when they have no choice but to pay 1 or 2 alimony and child support

[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]Giveaway #1: He wants less sex.

What it reveals: Believe it or not, less action means has lost interest in having sex with you or, possibly, he is dead.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe a closet homo

I saw that list of Rachel's and I predict she's either gonna end up ALONE and bitter, living with MANY CATS, or she's gonna have a "Will and Grace" relationship, 'cos the guy she's describing swings on the other side of the fence, with NO hope EVER of being her bedmate! This broad (and others like her) need to pull their faces AWAY from the crack pipe!

Re: What AW's expect when dating,

I checked out that page BRIEFLY. Got about 2 items down the list before I started getting bored. Then I realized why...... Cuz I don't give a half a fuck what they want! Those cunts always KNEW what I wanted, and seldom (but sometimes!) let me have it.

Any attractive female is fully aware of what a normal, healthy young man wants to do with her. The problem, from the man's point of view, is that they usually use this as a form of leverage to get what they want first. So of course, the natural end result was that I completely quit caring what they wanted. I now view pretty much every local single woman I see as both a disaster waiting to happen, and as someone to be kept at arm's length.

Why would I bother with them anyways? My wife (5'9" 128 lbs, long legs and perfect tits/ass....and 15 YEARS younger, foreign born) is hot, and anytime I HAVE to have some variety, the local MP is there.

Life is good.

Rock

Regarding that first item about the guy wanting less sex.... and somehow that's supposed to be good news.

Honey, that probably means he's already gotten so bored with you that a.) he's getting some on the side or b.) he'd rather jack off.

Rock

Well it is not just in America that women are getting picky, fussy and complaining.

An Australian news site published an article stating there is a 'man shortage' along with a blog for comments. And the comments from the guys (and also some women I might add) were eye opening! I think every comment made in this thread bad about American women surfaced in the comments sent in.

The one from the women who noticed other women checking out the labels her male friends were wearing before deciding whether to bother with them, and the guy who couldn't get the time of day from a friend's friend until she saw him a few days later in a hot car - upon which she was all over him trying to figure out his income, are worth the time browsing. Check it out here:

[url]http://blogs.news.com.au/news/yoursay/index.php/news/comments/man_drought/[/url]

Sometimes the venom against women can go over the top here. Sometimes I think 'maybe it is me' when I don't get much response from women. Then I read something like the responses in this blog (centred mostly around one of CBGB's fave places, Sydney) and I realise, it is NOT just me, and it is NOT all over the top venom.

Then I go overseas and have a blast with the women I meet. Literally.

Hung Man - you need to come to regional WA, where the only 'labels' we recognise are Stubbies, Blundstone and Hard Yakka, and 'cultured' means he uses a knife and fork. :)

What I saw in that blog was the same thing I see in this forum and in real life. Neither sex really gives a damn about what the other wants. They only care what THEY want. It seems to me that when people go out and meet people of the opposite sex, they are so busy sizing each other up and questioning each others motives, that they wouldn't notice a good thing if he/she walked up and bit them on the arse. Ever considered that this suspicious and bitter attitude - in both men AND women - might be making the person you're talking to respond in kind?

I don't believe for a second that 'every woman' is obsessed with money and power and status, especially when you're talking about casual sex, not marriage. If I'm out looking for casual sex, I have ONE prerequisite - that he turns me on. (And I'm not necessarily talking about looks; I'm talking chemistry). Why would he need to prove he has a good job and own his own home just to shag me for the night?

If we're talking marriage potential, then yes, I can understand why SOME women want to know about money, particularly those women who are currently financially independent themselves. Simple fact is, when you get married and start talking children, SHE will be the one who will have to give up working to pop out the babies. Unless she has huge assests behind her that she can start selling off when the time comes, she will eventually be forced to become totally dependent on YOU for money. As much as I don't necessarily agree with it, it makes sense to me that a woman who has grown accustomed to living at a certain 'level', especially when she's worked hard to get herself to that level, would like to think that YOU could earn enough to keep BOTH of you living at that level after she stops work. (And this is where your 'women from other countries aren't so obsessed with money' theory tends to lose a little ground - you could work parttime at KFC and still earn more money than a Third World woman is accustomed to having, so of course she's not gonna expect quite as much as a Western woman would).

You guys get annoyed when women are interested in how much financial security you can provide them - but you also say that you want a 'traditional' woman who will cook, clean, raise the kids and cater to your every need (so, presumably, she won't have her own income). So, guys, I have a question. We keep hearing about what you hate about women and what you DON'T want...but what DO you want in a woman and/or relationship?

It has been said many times and I’ll say it again. Marriage has become little more than a tool for women to separate men from their hard earned cash, house and other assets. A husband is little more than a provider and donor. He is like the mantis that gives up his body for the consumption of the female mantis after mating so that she has enough protein to lay her eggs. She eats him alive shortly after, or even during, the consummation of their union.

Today, the Republican Party in the US is trying to drum up support for a ban on gay marriage but no one is listening. Why is that? It is because most Americans know that marriage is no longer some mystical union between the spirit of a man and woman. They know that it is nothing more than a business contract where the man invariably gets the shitty end of the deal. Even the people who don’t approve of homosexuality can’t delude themselves enough about the true nature of marriage to support the ban. They know that all the talk about the sanctity of marriage in America is a crock of bullshit. Marriage is all about getting taken to the cleaners and being denied visitation with your kids; so who cares if the gays want to get a taste of divorce court?

Anyway, with hard economic times on the horizon, who wants to support some woman in the manner in which she would like to become accustomed to while she pops out a bunch of kids; allows her ass to widen progressively; withholds sex to get her way; nags incessantly; and drives one into bankruptcy in her quest to keep up with the Joneses?

I have heard all the arguments as to why a woman should have as much as two thirds of my net worth upon divorce. I hear the old housework isn’t easy theme beaten to death over and over again. No one mentions that over the years housework has gotten progressively easier with washing machines, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners and no-scrub bathroom cleaners. My Mexican housekeeper gets it all done, including the cooking, and she never complains though she costs me much less than an American wife would. I’m beginning to think that illegal immigration is a blessing in disguise for young professional men who realize that remaining single is the best option for achieving financial success and a comfortable retirement.

So, do I care what American women want? No. They want it all and I’m not going to give it to them. I can easily get what I want without them. If I am selfish they made me that way. They got too greedy and I decided too use cheap labor and to contract offshore services to take care of my needs. If they want to be supported in a manner in which they would like to become accustomed to, they can do it the way I did, through hard work.

.....again fall for the wedge issue of gay marriage and keep a bunch of self serving scumbags in power, I am going on a killing spree. I'm hoping for the current administration to leave office in handcuffs after power changes in the house and senate this November.

I was also MADE into what I am, looking out only for my interests in the dating arena, by YEARS of being USED, by American bitches ("Thank you for X you're a great FRIEND"). I used to be a sweet little puppydog, willing to give gladly without receiprocation.

What do I WANT in a woman-in no particular order:

1. MAINTAINED physical attractiveness-"she let herself go after the wedding" is actually a cliche' now.

2 Perform the function of "handling" me-regulate my mood, regulate my diet, remember birthdays....basically take care of the little things so I can handle the big stuff like making a living (American girls toss their baby to the husband as he walks in the door from work, so she can run off to go shopping or have coffee with her girlfriends). Keep my wardrobe under control, and the house a reasonably pleasant environment.

3 Produce a child or two for me....act as primary caregiver to that child, don't dump that responsibility off on some mook who runs a day care so you can go do some little nothing of a job and claim to be a financial contributor with a full share of decision making power.

4 Maintain a REASONABLE level of materialist desire. I like nice things too, but know that they won't make you happy, and expect you also to know the same thing (within reason). I don't give a fuck if Mrs. Jones down the street got a new SUV.....when I get 3 million in the bank, we can retire to a tropical island where you definitely won't need one..

5. Give me sex when I want it. Don't use sex as a weapon to get what you want.


6. Be faithful.

7. Recognize that I am steering the ship, and abide by my decisions. Yes, your input is important, and I should give your opinion strong consideration, but the final decision is MINE. If you really want to be in charge, FINE, but then I get a life of light housework, daytime TV (I cringe at the thought), and playing with the kids......you can handle a 90 minute commute on top of ten hours a day of,my idiot boss, sociopathic co-workers, and corporate stupidity.

8. Don't USE me, CHOOSE me....Don't make me, the responsible hard working "nice guy" your backup plan for a nice life after you have failed to snag a rock star, pro athlete, rich guy, male model, or failed to "change" that dramatic loser. Again the metaphor....how would you feel if someone threw a big party, didn't invite you, and then offered you some leftover food and drinks if you would help them clean up afterwards

B9k

[QUOTE=Hung Man 1808]Well it is not just in America that women are getting picky, fussy and complaining.

An Australian news site published an article stating there is a 'man shortage' along with a blog for comments. And the comments from the guys (and also some women I might add) were eye opening! I think every comment made in this thread bad about American women surfaced in the comments sent in.

The one from the women who noticed other women checking out the labels her male friends were wearing before deciding whether to bother with them, and the guy who couldn't get the time of day from a friend's friend until she saw him a few days later in a hot car - upon which she was all over him trying to figure out his income, are worth the time browsing. Check it out here:

[url]http://blogs.news.com.au/news/yoursay/index.php/news/comments/man_drought/[/url]

Sometimes the venom against women can go over the top here. Sometimes I think 'maybe it is me' when I don't get much response from women. Then I read something like the responses in this blog (centred mostly around one of CBGB's fave places, Sydney) and I realise, it is NOT just me, and it is NOT all over the top venom.

Then I go overseas and have a blast with the women I meet. Literally.[/QUOTE]I live in Australia and when I read this American women thread I believe nearly everything mentioned here also applies to Australian women. When I occasionally come across CBGB's posts that paint Australian women in a positive light I am puzzled, it must mean American women must be so bad I can not even imagine! I put it down to him being a foreigner perhaps as an advantage for him with the Aussie women?

I have given the dating sites a real go over here. Believe me I am in a strong finanical position, but the problem is I don't flaunt it. I do far better with my money investing it rather than owning my home so choose not to. I rent in the inner city and choose not to own a car given I would hardly ever drive it or look after it properly, together with the fact the $50000 I avoid to spend on a car I can probably double it in a few years, instead of halving it in depreciation. I rent good cars when I need as literally metres away is a car hire place, and have even taken women away on weekends to nice places in very nice cars. But all the women see is a guy who can't afford his own car or own home. Their loss I say. Some other bloke can marry these obese women and have them whinge to them about the screaming kids whilst they bust their gut working 60 hour weeks until she runs off with half his assets. When I am 40, I will spend half the year in some Asian country with a geourgous 20 yo watching my portfolio sipping a cold beer, reflecting on what a loser I am because no Aussie woman wanted me. How terrible it will be for me.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Hung Man - you need to come to regional WA, where the only 'labels' we recognise are Stubbies, Blundstone and Hard Yakka, and 'cultured' means he uses a knife and fork. :)

What I saw in that blog was the same thing I see in this forum and in real life. Neither sex really gives a damn about what the other wants. They only care what THEY want. It seems to me that when people go out and meet people of the opposite sex, they are so busy sizing each other up and questioning each others motives, that they wouldn't notice a good thing if he/she walked up and bit them on the arse. Ever considered that this suspicious and bitter attitude - in both men AND women - might be making the person you're talking to respond in kind?

I don't believe for a second that 'every woman' is obsessed with money and power and status, especially when you're talking about casual sex, not marriage. If I'm out looking for casual sex, I have ONE prerequisite - that he turns me on. (And I'm not necessarily talking about looks; I'm talking chemistry). Why would he need to prove he has a good job and own his own home just to shag me for the night?

If we're talking marriage potential, then yes, I can understand why SOME women want to know about money, particularly those women who are currently financially independent themselves. Simple fact is, when you get married and start talking children, SHE will be the one who will have to give up working to pop out the babies. Unless she has huge assests behind her that she can start selling off when the time comes, she will eventually be forced to become totally dependent on YOU for money. As much as I don't necessarily agree with it, it makes sense to me that a woman who has grown accustomed to living at a certain 'level', especially when she's worked hard to get herself to that level, would like to think that YOU could earn enough to keep BOTH of you living at that level after she stops work. (And this is where your 'women from other countries aren't so obsessed with money' theory tends to lose a little ground - you could work parttime at KFC and still earn more money than a Third World woman is accustomed to having, so of course she's not gonna expect quite as much as a Western woman would).

You guys get annoyed when women are interested in how much financial security you can provide them - but you also say that you want a 'traditional' woman who will cook, clean, raise the kids and cater to your every need (so, presumably, she won't have her own income). So, guys, I have a question. We keep hearing about what you hate about women and what you DON'T want...but what DO you want in a woman and/or relationship?[/QUOTE]


The thing is that despite mondo lip service to the contary, most women WANT to be in the position of being sheltered from reality, bearing children, etc. Even a large portion of Ivy League educated women CHOOSE to live this kind of life, despite having world class oppotunities available to them. .Now these days, due to feminism bullshit, women believe that they should be able to live this kind of life without paying the price for it which is keeping up the house, taking care of husband and kids, and being subordinate to the husband

It seems ironic that we as men ae PUNISHED for giving women what they WANT when the relationship ends. It's late, and my logic may be flawed, but it seems that this is analogous to someone giving me a job traveling the world, (something I want to do), and when I wish to not do the job anymore, sue the person who gave it to me because they denied me the oppotunity to work in a coal mine, something I don't want to do.

B9K

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]
...You guys get annoyed when women are interested in how much financial security you can provide them - but you also say that you want a 'traditional' woman who will cook, clean, raise the kids and cater to your every need (so, presumably, she won't have her own income). So, guys, I have a question. We keep hearing about what you hate about women and what you DON'T want...[b]but what DO you want in a woman and/or relationship[/b]?[/QUOTE]

Quite simple for me;

1. Be nice, stay nice!

2. Respect me as who I am.

3. And (indeed) choose me, not my money!


Frankypanky-Holland

More good stuff for you guys out there who like to date American or Americanized women that you meet using an online dating site.
[url]http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=5986&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=8233[/url]

Can it get any worse? I say the bear market is just getting started. Time to dust off the passport boys.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]More good stuff for you guys out there who like to date American or Americanized women that you meet using an online dating site.
[url]http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=5986&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&GT1=8233[/url]

Can it get any worse? I say the bear market is just getting started. Time to dust off the passport boys.[/QUOTE]Fortunately I was wise enough to give up internet dating years ago. If ever there was an advertisement to give up then this is it.

Let me try and summarize.

1) The girl your after must get married and soon. ( I wonder why..)

2) You have to do ALL the courting and put in all the effort.

3) No chance of sex anytime soon.

4) As all this occurs she is freeloading , oops "dating" at least another 2 guys.

5) She will freeload off you , oops date you, more than once even though its unlikely she actually likes you.

6) If she does like you she still forces you to committ to marriage before you get any sex.

7) If you promise to marry her to get sex because of step 6, and don't propose, she will again shut up shop and withold sex until you make marriage plans.

Choca if the bear market in dating american women from the internet is starting, the bull market in mongering offshore will be huge.

I prey that gullable guys continue to hook up with the sort of women such as in that article, then it means mongering is a "no-brainer" and the prices remain low.

My biggest fear is men wake up and all start to read ISG. But then again if that happened American women would probably lose their bargaining power and become easy prey.

...to AW in this:

"Many women toss out great prospects because they aren’t swept off their feet instantly. Remember that men who sweep you off your feet right away might be a little too practiced in the art. You’ve got to wonder who else he’s swept away that week. Look for substance. I went out with several men multiple times whom I didn’t feel terribly attracted to initially but liked for one reason or another. It was good discipline. I fell in love with my husband by getting to know him gradually (although, after our first date, I did catch myself telling friends that I might marry him). "

This paraphrases something I have said on this board repeatedly to AW-STOP THROWING YOURSELF AT the 20% of guys who are (again a variant of the litany) smooth, slick, dramatic, pretty, (born, or at least early achiever of) weathy, high profile (pro athletes and rock stars) etc, ad nauseum....what you look like to them is tommorow nights fuck , NOT the future Mrs. Pretty boy, Rich Guy etc.

Further commentary:

"Just over four years ago, I signed onto Match.com with the intention of finding my husband. Six months and more than 100 dates later, I did. (As you might have surmised if you just did the math, I was between jobs at the time and had a lot of free time on my hands.) Given the sheer number of dates I experienced, out of necessity......."

Translation-it got too difficult for me to make a living as an "independent woman" so I decided to find a guy to foot the bills for me. However, I wil still retain all rights and privleges of a financially independent entity. Typical.

"Step 3: Don’t get physical until you’re sure he’s The One
Whoa! This is a counter-cultural message! You’d never hear the characters on Sex and The City acting this way (if they did, of course, there wouldn’t be a show). But I figured that the fastest way to find your mate online is by dating a lot of people. The only way to date many people simultaneously and not lose your mind is by not getting physical with anyone. That’s because having sex, I learned, floods your system with a neurotransmitter called oxytocin, which bonds you to that person whether you like it or not. But by not bonding prematurely, your head stays clear. Incredibly, I didn’t even kiss anyone (yes, I was tempted). If asked, I would tell a date that I was holding off on anything physical until I knew I was in a committed relationship—one leading to marriage. I don’t know if saying this scared anyone off. If it did, then that was a good thing! "

Hmmmm...this is interesting in a couple of respects. I like to see a slam on the "Sex in the City" school of thought, which is "go right ahead and jump anything that your pussy aches for", regardless of the prospective consequences.......also, an assertion that (disguised in medical jargon) IT ISN'T GOOD TO MAKE DECISIONS EXCLUSIVELY ON THE BASIS OF FEELINGS.

"Step 4: Date at least three people at a time
“Dating one person is over-focus. Two is either-or. And three is balance,” says psychologist Pat Allen, author of Getting To I Do. That way, if a seeming prospect suddenly disappears, which happened to me several times, you won’t feel as crushed knowing you’ve got several new dates lined up. Because you aren’t getting physically involved with anyone, your dates will be much more accepting of your seeing other people should the subject arise. If it does, you can honestly say, “I plan to continue dating several people until I find the right one and am ready to commit.” Stick to it. When dating online, especially, finding a mate is a numbers game. By dating several men at once, I met more men more quickly and, being able to compare them to each other, I felt more sure I’d met the right guy when I did. "

I actually don't have a problem with this as long as the girl drops the other two, after choosing one. This is preferabe to the prototypical arangement where a girl has one "chosen", with at least three replacements (maintained with flirting, and possiby other activities up to and including sex) cooling their heels on her back burner in the event that number 1 doesn't work out for her.

OK, that's all that I have....I couild probably be justifyably accused of holding a belief system, and then looking for evidence to suppot it, but....

B9k

The other day at work, a 21 American girl with a SEVERE case of "princess syndrome" (DD-E-cup tits and an OK face get her mostly whatever she wants, and she KNOWS IT) was running around more or less extolling the virtues of "HOT BOYS, HOT BOYS".

Depressedly, I thought back to last December in Prague when I had a 19 year old Ukrainian goddess rubbing my beer belly saying "Is what MAN should look like" (and repeatedly "vhy I like you soooo much).

Damn I wish I could afford to travel during the high season.

B9k

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]Choca if the bear market in dating american women from the internet is starting, the bull market in mongering offshore will be huge.[/QUOTE]

Not only mongering for sex, but also looking for wife material. US men should really and seriously look for wives from abroad.

got in a bit of a debate this afternoon at work, with my assistant. she was saying, somewhat sarcastically, how i "must really like it" because my wife is at home keeping the house clean, doing laundry and cooking the meals. we had gotten on the domestic subect after i stated that there was no way i'd be changing any [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131][CodeWord131][/url] once we had kids.

so anyways, i said sure i like it, that's the way things are supposed to be. to which she replied, not if the girl is smart and independant. what's that supposed to mean anyways.... i asked her. she said something about girls going out and making their own money and how that was a good thing in case the marriage didn't work out.

bingo! right there she basically admitted what i've known all along..... western women pretty much plan ahead for a marriage to fail, and "smart and independant" is just code language for .....single and alone. i then told her that was the exact reason why i would never, ever marry a canadian woman. they, and most other western women, are just walking divorces, waiting to happen.

this is from my assistant, a 26 yr old female employee who i get along with quite well. we weren't arguing or anything like that, but i've long detected a low level vibe from her that i'd somehow broken some kind of unwritten rule by leaving the country to find a wife. for some reason, today's "smart and independant" women just hate it when we go out and find ourselves a good-looking, traditional housewife.

rock

I occasionally hear about AW's being pissed off that they can't have it all (super job, super home, super kids, doting hubby, fantastic sex life, great finances, etc). It amazes me that allegedly intelligent women DON'T realize they can't have it all. It's akin to Thor lifting Jormungand, the Midgard serpent. As mighty as he was, he could only lift a portion of him due to the fact that Jormungand encircled the whole world. AW's can't lift it (maintain the super life) without SOME portion being sacrificed and let down.

As for your point, RD, if they have the independence and money they see as a means of a failsafe in case of a bad marriage, it tells me that they weren't concentrating on that area of their lives as much as the aforementioned subjects. They didn't fail to plan, they planned to FAIL.

There's still one small benefit to being a guy. This was touched on briefly by another poster a couple of weeks ago.

We can choose NOT to get married. No marriage, NO co-habitation or common-law or anything like that. Therefore no divorce, divorce lawyers, spousal or child support. Any man with a half-decent job will find himself accumulating capital at a surprising rate. Invest wisely and with a little discipline you can find yourself in retirement territory as early as your 40's.
This is where being a guy starts to pay off.

A woman in her 40's is usually shiotot. (Demi and Halley aside). There are only a small percentage of women over 40 that can still expect to attract hot, younger men.l But when you're a guy, all you need is few to be in the right place with a little cash and you can have all the hot young pussy you can handle.

If I was in my 20's and just starting out, I think this would have been a good way to go. Hit 45, go somewhere nice and sunny, and become an ex-pat. No, make that a sex-pat!

Coining a new term.

Rock

This has been on CNN a lot for the last few days. Seems that this guy, Darren Mack shot through a window at a Judge and nearly killed him. He'd also killed his wife sometime earlier by stabbing her.

OK, this guy is another crazy running loose..... but that wasn't the whole story either. Apparently, she was in the process of divorcing him and this was the judge that was overseeing the case. UH-oh! Now I don't advocate going around shooting people....... but, suddenly I starting seeing this guy in a different light.

There are so many angry men out there who are TIRED of working to build up their fortunes, only to have some woman (aided and abetted by the legal system) take it away from them. What pisses me off even more is that they have a whole bunch of female experts on the Nancy Grace show (CNN) where these so-called experts analyze him. They inevitably come to the conclusion that all his problems are internal before dismissing him as some kind of psycho.

Maybe he is, but I find it funny that nobody has mentioned anything much about how maybe it was Mack deciding that he wasn't going to let them fuck him over in court. Again, I don't think it was right for him to kill his wife or shoot the judge, but I do understand WHY he did it...... and there are a lot more pissed-off ex-husbands out there who have dreamed of doing the exact same thing.

Of course, nobody's going to talk about THAT........ not in todays feminist-censored world.

Rock

I'd heard a little about that case, but I didn't stay with the channel long enough to get the whole story. If I were EVER stupid enough to get married to an AW, you can bet your ass that I'd have a (HUGE) SECRET bank account(s) and an updated passport and living arrangements overseas as a safety measure in case she decided to suck the financial life outta me simply because she CAN. Maybe I'd move to one of those lonely outposts in Oz with a grain silo as the tallest edifice that RN told me about! LOL

Rock,

Apparently, the judge ordered the guy to pay ~ $12,000 per month in child support. The judge was also suspected to be corrupt; allegedly he allowed campaign contributions from lawyers to influence his family court decisions. Mack believed that his wife was trying to drive him into bankruptcy with the aid of the legal system.

It is not the first time that a tragedy like this has played out in this country; this particular case is receiving a lot of attention because a judge was shot usually people of a lower status end up as the casualties.

Anyway, note the difference in the way the media is treating Mrs Winkler, the murderess who gave her husband a fatal shotgun blast to the back and then fled across several state lines. The feminists are speculating that he was an abuser or molester in order to justify his murder inspite of the fact that no evidence points to anything of that nature.

When a woman murders a man in America she is immediately presumed innocent or, at most, guilty of justifiable homocide. Men, on the other hand, are always considered to be guilty of being violent murdering bastards.

Chocha,

That's standard operating procedure for women. Case number one, if a guy does something..... he's the bad guy and she is the VICTIM. Case number two, if a woman does something..... it's STILL the man's fault because he's the bad guy and somehow drove her to do it.

I am sick of this theme. You see it over and over in the media. Oprah and Nancy Grace are 2 the worst offenders but the list is virtually endless.

What to do? For me, I'm going to endure the madness until I have enough saved up to move to someplace where life still makes sense.

Brazil is looking pretty good right now.

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
What to do? For me, I'm going to endure the madness until I have enough saved up to move to someplace where life still makes sense.

Brazil is looking pretty good right now.

Rock[/QUOTE]

Hmm... I dunno about taking up PERMANENT residence in Brazil, my brother. I occasionally read stories about how the wealthy have to live in fortified enclaves and hire ARMED guards just to live any semblance of a normal life. Also, the crime is rampant near the favellas and the police have their hands FULL most of the time. Unless you're skilled with weapons and possibly a well-trained Brazilian Jiu jitsu practitioner, I would think TWICE about Brazil. If my assessment is WRONG, no one would be happier than me, since I often read that Brazil has some of the FINEST honeys to walk the face of the earth.

Been meaning to mention this one for a while. I happened to catch a bit of reporting where "someone" (most likely the wife in order to get ammo in the divorce proceedings) in one of the prominant celebrity divorces (I think it was Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger) had released a voice mail of one of the husband "venting"......it was as a I recall "Fucking *****, I can't believe you, etc...." mostly bleeped out. The news report then carried in with a female reporter "....and how is it that Kim has endured being married to a man such as this...". Not the slightest indication that just possibly, Kim could have DRIVEN him to this behavior, or that there could be two sides to the story. Nice fucking job with the fair and balanced there *****.

B9k

From the beginning.

i may have been dreaming, but i swore i saw two aw's running toward each other in a forest at top speed, only to collide with each other's bellies with a skinny guy's head in between. one was colored green and the other yellow...

[url]http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/05/24/women.Gambia.reut/[/url]

The best way to handle American women is:

1) Do not interact with them, life is too short, let some one else deal with their neurotic problems and hyper consumptive patterns.

2) If you must interact. Do not play their game. Be humble and soft spoken and polite.

If any one else has any other strategies for interaction with American women I would be open.

I'm going to become a "bumsters" when I retire. LOL

Regards, Havanaman

the big bamboo

american and other western women disapprove of prostitution in their home countries while traveling abroad in search of the “big bamboo” in caribbean islands such as jamaica and barbados. female sex tourism hotspots include bali, the caribbean, gambia, morocco and tunisia. these women are the same ones filing sexual harassment complaints against men back at their corporate jobs; they’re the same ones that think that men back in their home countries should be locked up for using the services of female prostitutes. do these feminists really believe in equality between the sexes or are they on a sinister campaign to bring western men down and keep them face down in the dirt with a stiletto heel planted firmly in the back?

not surprisingly, none of these women consider themselves to be patrons of prostitution. according to female logic, they are just helping the local “bumsters” escape momentarily from the grind of poverty found in their squalid tropical shacks. everyone knows that only dirty old men traveling to bangkok or the philippines can be considered sex tourists. perhaps, the fifty-something heavy grandmother with the young muscled beach bum just enjoys conversing about all the things that they have in common. the jumbo tube of ky jelly© that she bought from the local pharmacy isn’t really for greasing the “big bamboo”; it’s actually meant to repel those pesky mosquitoes that tend to harass tourists on the tropical coasts.

on the other hand, their fellow western countrymen should only be so lucky to be considered as altruistic donors of economic aid to impoverished women abroad. after lobbying by feminist human rights groups, big apple oriental tours of new york was prosecuted for “promotion of prostitution” by the new york state attorney general. though the case was thrown out twice, most likely, it is just the first skirmish in an emerging war on sex tour operators and eventually individual male sex tourists.

not all of these women are older or unattractive and can easily find sexual companions among their male peers in their homeland. this observation is cause for suspicion regarding the motives of these women. can their trysts with these local men be a form of exerting a degree of control over men yet unattained in their countries of origin? the fact that oral sex is highly sought after by these women in places where it is considered taboo by local men, such as in jamaica, points to possibility that these women get their thrills from coercing the “bumsters” into cunnilingus via the use of an economic stick and carrot.

indeed, the prospect of giving oral service to a corpulent or 50 yrs old woman would be enough to make most western youths hurl their stomach contents. it would be unimaginable to think that these women are not fully conscious of that fact. having to eat a postmenopausal grey bearded shriveled pussy is a terribly hard way for a young man to make a living. however, you wouldn’t see any cbs 60 minutes or cnn special segment on this story; you will see several stories about men who travel for sex though.

the behavior of these women can often take forms that would draw their wrath had it been men engaging in a similar fashion. in one case after utilizing the sexual services of the dive instructors at one resort, the women proceeded to rate the men’s size and performance with one fellow receiving rep001hing reviews on his less than impressive endowment.

the women also indicated that back home they usually sit back and await the men to approach them but when they were abroad they were not averse to aggressively pursuing the hotel staff member or beach bum that tickled their fancy. this indeed may be shocking for many western men who are routinely shot down when they approach these women in singles bars or clubs. these guys might want to think about things before they offer to buy these women a drink while out on the town. after all, the bumsters don’t buy them drinks and they get paid in cash and gifts for their services, so why shouldn't you?


references

1. [url]http://www.caribvoice.org/travel&tourism/sextourism.html[/url]

2. [url]http://www.gadling.com/category/gambia/[/url]

3. [url]http://www.mangosauce.com/travel/female_sex_tourist_bali.php[/url]

4. [url]http://www.cdnn.info/news/article/a030830.html[/url]

5. [url]http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/11/1057783358449.html[/url]

Helping out the local economy my ASS! These dried up skanks are as depraved as they accuse US to be. I'd LOVE to watch 60 Minutes with Ed Bradley grilling some roly-poly wrinkled assed broad trying to explain away why she's keeping such YOUNGER male company abroad when there are plenty of young men in her own country. I'm sure he'd give her a look that would say: "Beeyatch PLEASE! Save the bullshit for planting season". Reading about the prospect of dining on a dusty, graying, shriveled, long-out-of-use goonyah makes ME wanna hurl too!

Interesting article with some surprising information.

[url]http://www.alternet.org/sex/37642/[/url]

"Advertisement Two: A young man repeatedly chooses a big juicy taco over the invitation to score with willing and available girls."

What is this world coming to??? Maybe it's AW these young men are turning down (and rightly so). Now, all they need to learn is the insights of the mongering trade abroad and they'll be well on their way to becoming the next generation of successful "sexpats" he..he.he......

Chocha, I read your report but it didn't surprise me one bit. I saw plenty of that stuff going on when I was in Cuba and especially in Jamaica.

In one of those articles they said ....."A lot of the women who come here, they're good girls the rest of the time, then they come down here and the moment their feet hit the sand, bam! They go buck-ass wild. Then they go back to their business-suit lives in the city, and no one's any the wiser. There's a certain protection in it for them. We have a saying: 'Whatever happens on the island stays on the island'."

Well this is the way AW's and Cdn women operate. Deep inside, they WANT to fuck around like little wh*res. Of course they can't, because they've got their precious reputations to think about. It's interesting to see how they behave when they think they get away with it because nobody's watching.

This is the exact same thing that men like to do..... and this is the exact same thing that they give us crap for doing. And that, my friends, is the very definition of hypocrisy.

Rock

[QUOTE=Cyberdas]Interesting article with some surprising information.

[url]http://www.alternet.org/sex/37642/[/url]

"Advertisement Two: A young man repeatedly chooses a big juicy taco over the invitation to score with willing and available girls."

What is this world coming to??? Maybe it's AW these young men are turning down (and rightly so). Now, all they need to learn is the insights of the mongering trade abroad and they'll be well on their way to becoming the next generation of successful "sexpats" he..he.he......[/QUOTE]

Perhaps the young guys have finally figured out that when American women act horny it is usually a trick to get their cash or something else, but they rarely ever deliver on the sex that they seem to promise. What a cold beer, juicy cheese burger and a stuffed taco all promise is genuine honest to goodness satisfaction without the tease. Not to mention that good food and drink wouldn't take off with half to two thirds of everything that you ever worked for, leaving you to face a dismal future in an age of scrapped pension plans and uncertain employment.

Rock Dog, mentioned how easy it was for a single man to earn wealth over a lifetime by avoiding marriage in a previous post; now, imagine how difficult it would be for that same young man paying child support and alimony. The chance of a divorced male managing to save enough for retirement is not very good. I am sure that as the new economic realities become more apparent even more young men will realize that sex in America is something not worth fucking with.

AW have long been able to have their cake and to eat men's cake; that may be coming to an end soon as times are proving that their is less cake to go around. Men may opt to forego sex at home in the interest of retaining their creature comforts. Sex is highly over rated, especially when you're expected to give up your privacy, personal freedom and income to get it.

I watched "Shopgirl"....it dragged a bit, and was trying just a hair too hard to be "Lost in Translation", but still worth seeing.

The portrayal of Mirabella's friend from the store was a very accurate portrayal of how girl's try to both sabotage each other, and encourage each other to act in a manipulative fashion "Act like you can't get enough of giving him fellatio"......"this is how you can test him"

I do really like to see the trend in film of displaying an older man with a young woman. This contradicts against our overriding cultural message of the cute little couple "Jimmy and Stacey together forever".........even when it becomes appearent that Jimmy is a gigntic loser.

B9k

Actually, this idea occurred to me a week ago but anyways...

As we all know (all too well), women have absolutely NO problem holding back on sex as a strategy to get what they want. For the longest time, we men have had no strategy of own own that we could use to counterattack.

Well. I think I may have an answer. First you must ask the question..... what is it that women want? What do they want the same way we want sex? Answer: they want to get married, prefferably to a guy with a good job so they can live on easy street.

Therefore, we as men should with-hold MARRIAGE from them. You don't really need to be married anymore anyways. What good is it? Kids? Nope.... nothing but noise, stress and loss of personal freedom. Sex? Hah, we all know where we can go anytime we need some. Security? Please! With the legal system the way it is, you're more secure staying single.

Work for your OWN dreams, save up and sex-patriate to your favorite destination where you can get married to a REAL woman.

Everything works on supply and demand, so I figure if a significant enough percentage of men start choosing this option, the women might start changing their ways...... maybe.

Rock

I chat a lot with B9K about the same thing, but instead of marriage, I'll take the route of "seasonally leasing" a honey. That way, when the mileage gets too high (gradual/eventual creeping in of her high-maintenance attitude, MY need for variety, etc) I'll trade in for a better model. My locale of choice is the northern Med anywhere from Spain to France residing in a rented villa. I won't fall prey to a matrimonial bait and switch simply because I have some cash and she has a gash.

An interesting study on marriage:

[url]http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/SOOU/TEXTSOOU2002.htm[/url]

i was just in el salvador and discussed the whole issue with this local guy.its basically pretty simple women are just spoiled in america and they take advantage of the situation just like guys do in third world countries.
i would just peel and fall over if laws started affecting my mongering trips.its the only thing giving me hope.

artisttyp

ps. great service in el salvador.i did my first 2 on 1 experience and it was so worth it...just like in the movies.

Rock and Sin touched on something important. My vision of my ideal future involves early comfortable retirement to either someplace cool and urbane (cool condo in Prague, Buenos Aires, Rio, Odessa......whatever) or fairly isolated (maybe a South American or Easten European winery, or a private island-not as expensive as you think)...I know, I tend to deal in extremes.

I know damn well that if I had a moment of insanity and slipped a ring on an American girl's finger that my vision gets immediately co-opted into a "shared" (in other words HERS) one, consisting of embracing mediocrity by spending the next 30 years paying (with my likely 2 hour round trip commuting) for an overpriced house in some boring assed suburb, her SUV ("we just must have one to keep the children SAFE"), and whatever other shit Madison avenue convinces her she "must have"...the highlight of my life would then consist of weekends, spent engaging in "honey-do" projects, and hanging out with other dorky boring assed suburban couples, and an annual "vacation" very likely spending 18-36 hours fighting traffic with two whiny kids in the backseat for the plastic thrill of DisneyWorld or whatever....and that is if you are part of the "lucky" 40% who stay married, and you don't end up just PAYING for the afore mentioned scenario with the added bonus of "enjoying" it.

I think that Dante missed a level in "Paradise Lost"..or was that "The Inferno"

B9k

Okay guys,

I found a real gem for you, a site used to petition for the International Marriage Broker Act. After reading a few thousand comments on the forum discussing IMBRA it was clear to see that AW are like mindless sheep. Someone yells, "Wolf!" and the flock screams, "Baaaaaaa!" as they rally around the flag. That pretty much summarizes their reaction to any cause presented as pro-female (anti-male).

Yes, all foreign women who marry an American man are poor misguided slaves who must be protected by law according to the AW supporting the petition. A few even went so far as to suggest that AW need similar protections and American men should be subjected to similar background checks, and so forth, before being allowed a date at home.

Interestingly, inspite of all the protests from these AW about women being treated as slaves and property none of them addressed the underlying cause of all the alleged abuse. That is correct gentlemen, not one of these women denounced marriage as an institution that enslaves women. How can one make a cogent argument for the protection of women from animalistic exploitive men without addressing an ancient ritual where a woman is limited to bearing the children of one man?

If these women support and engage in marriage then their entire argument falls apart and then the real issue becomes glaringly obvious, foreign women. Perhaps, if they started discussing marriage it would become clear that the real slaves who need some protection are men. Maybe, these women are not as stupid as they seem upon closer examination. They certainly seem to know how to limit their argument to popular feminist slogans rather than making any real case for their opinions.

Anyway, I say abolish marriage in America; it would put an end to all these women being abused and treated like slaves, not to mention it would put an end to the gays fighting for the privelege. Sure we can't put an end to marriage ceremonies, and such, but the government and legal system can surely cease to recognize it as a legally binding contract. If couples can't decide how to support and raise their children then the court can charge both parties an equal fee to arrive at a determination while obligating both to pay child support to the state which will decide how to disburse said funds. The state would reserve the right to conduct audits on the person receiving the support monies to ensure that the children are indeed benefitting from the funds, much like the IRS conducts tax audits.

There it is, no more slavery for thousands of American and immigrant women who are forced into marriage each year; no more marrying for benefits or economic advantage. After all, why stop with putting the international marriage broker agencies out of business when we can do the same to bridal shops and divorce lawyers?

Please click on the link to site below, read the posts and share your thoughts here with us.

[url]http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/763669991?ltl=1151012396[/url]

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]
Please click on the link to site below, read the posts and share your thoughts here with us.

[url]http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/763669991?ltl=1151012396[/url][/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for posting this link, Chocha, just one more reason why I need to permanently ex-patriate from this fucked up country I live in. Like I needed anymore reasons...

Anyways, I am lucky enough that I am self-employed, and so I spend 3-4 months a year out of the country, in Latin America, and I hope to permanently ex-pat before I am 35 (lofty goal I know, but it's possible). But for you guys that live in this country year-round, umm....how the hell do you do it??? If I had to live in this sex prison year round, I would want to blow my brains out!

But seriously, what keeps you guys from just giving up on life here in this sex prison, buying a one way ticket to Rio, and spending the rest of your life selling beers on the beach to tourists, and banging a different girl every week? I can't be the only person here who's fantasized about a life like this, can I?

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent. I've been back in this country for barely 2 months, and I'm already checking out airline tickets for next year!

Oh yeah, I have a message for Jane McGuire of Maine, the woman that suggested "all American men looking for a date, should have their background info and a search through sex offender registry results in hand before asking any woman out."

FUCK YOU, C*UNT!!!

Chocha Monger: For once, I'm almost in agreement with you! :)

These people are among the same people who are responsible for the type of legislation/policy discussed recently in the Morality section. However, these women are NOT feminists. They are what I would classify as 'feminazis' - in fact, I would go as far as calling them ANTI-feminists, as their ideology is at best patronizing to women and at worst, bordering on misogyny.

Of COURSE they haven't addressed underlying causes, just as they would never offer up two sides of the story and encourage INFORMED debate. Because, like all zealots and fanatics, there IS no reasoning with them. There IS no discussion to be had. They are right, we are wrong, end of story. And of course there are always sheep willing to jump on the bandwagon and lend their support, because most people are TOO DAMN LAZY AND SELF-ABSORBED to bother searching for background info on a petition's creators or, God forbid, actually read an entire piece of proposed legislation. Instead, they glance at the sensationalist summary at the top of the petition and like the good little sheep they are, give themselves the warm and fuzzies by signing it and doing their bit to 'protect' those 'poor women'. Hey, abolishing sex slavery and preventing violence against women seems like a pretty darn noble cause, doesn't it?

Unless you've been on the receiving end of their brand of 'protection' and can see it for what it really is. These groups don't want to protect vulnerable women from MEN - they want to protect those women from THEMSELVES.

There are two main types of feminazi: the rabid, man-hating lesbians and the white, middle class do-gooders. They often work together because they are fighting for the same ultimate result, but they have very different motivations. The hardcore lesbian feminazis (Sheila Jeffreys - an Australian 'feminist' and anti-prostitution campaigner who claims that "Male supremacy is centred around the act of sexual intercourse" - is a prime example) believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with ANY woman who would seek out a sexual relationship of ANY kind, with a man. In their eyes, prostitution, pornography and even marriage and heterosexual sex itself, are acts of male dominance and exploitation of women. These women certainly have their supporters, but (thankfully) the idea that all heterosexual sex is violence against women is a little difficult for most people to swallow, so (aside from those aforementioned morons who just read the petition summary and sign it) they don't attract quite as many followers as the other group does.

The other group is much more dangerous, because it's easy to believe that they are really trying to do the right thing - and, in fairness to them, most of them honestly believe that they ARE. These (usually) white, middle-class soccer mums proclaim to be upholding the feminist values of equality and freedom of choice, but they are actually doing the complete opposite. They are not protecting women from exploitative situations - they are protecting women from making (what the feminazis perceive to be) bad choices and putting THEMSELVES in exploitative situations. These do-gooders seem to think that feminist ideals only apply to certain 'types' of women. Women who are sex workers/foreigners/single mums/black/uneducated/poor/etc, are automatically assumed to be 'victims' and as such, do not qualify as strong, independent thinking women. We apparently need THEM to think FOR us. Can't they see that the whole ESSENCE of feminism is a woman's right to speak for herself and have her voice heard in the political arena and that these feminazi groups are ERODING THOSE RIGHTS every time they speak FOR us, AGAINST our wishes??? These soccer mums are giving us ONE choice - to be like THEM. They can't, for one second, imagine that a woman may choose to live her life any way but THEIR way. The RIGHT way.

In my opinion, neither the prostitution debate, nor the Marriage Broker Act, has anything to do with protecting women from men. This is not even about protecting 'vulnerable' women from making decisions (such as marrying a foreigner or working in a brothel) that they might later find intolerable. This is about stopping women from making life decisions that the FEMINAZIS find intolerable. I don't know whether they do this out of genuine concern, religious zeal, fear or just plain jealousy, but I wish they would just MIND THEIR OWN FKN BUSINESS, get on with their own lives and leave us to live ours the way we see fit.

Excuse the rant, but these selfish b*tches really make my blood boil.

Nursey showed up to agree....it must be a cold day in suburbia I mean hell :)

There are few things more dangerous to the ongoing safety/liberty of the word than the biddy/hausfrau/oprahzombie/middle class housewife/soccer mom.

As touched upon previously they:

Vote/support/donate to-any organization or individual that they percieve as being "good"-having tremendous free time and financial resouces makes them a force of nature. in regards to inflicting change..

Don't delve any further than the superficial level into issues (The T-shirt answers-"Do it for the childen"...."Potect the helpless women")-most of them, having needed little more than a vagina to secure a comfortable existence, didn't need to develop any critical reading or analytical skills. They tend to hear what they want to hear, and believe without question anything that is fed to them through a "credible" source......and disregard anything coming in from a "bad" source despite that source having a perfectly reasoned logical argument, with valid supporting points.

Generally are big believers in controlling the world through rules and laws at the expense of freedom........some things just shouldn't be allowed you know....

B9k

PS I'm sure that everyone knows that I think the current US president, VP, and several other cronies should be removed from the White House in handcuffs, but something that scares me almost as much is Hillary.....now I'm basically a big leftist, but given the state of things (and I could be wrong-she is very intelligent, and does have the ability to see past the stupid superficial levels of issues, unlike the biddies who would be her constituency), putting her in the White house will likely put nails into some coffins.

[QUOTE=Bart9000]They tend to hear what they want to hear, and believe without question anything that is fed to them through a "credible" source......and disregard anything coming in from a "bad" source despite that source having a perfectly reasoned logical argument, with valid supporting points.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly - and those 'bad' sources include the very women that they supposedly care so much about. Sex worker advocates have been dealing with this for decades. Feminazis claim that sex workers are being victimised by prostitution. Wh*re activists say that THEY know better than anyone else what it's like to be involved in prostitution and that they are NOT being victimised. Feminazi response: "These 'poor women' have been so beaten down and degraded by the sex industry that their self-esteem is low enough that they BELIEVE they aren't being victimised...which is (of course) irrefutable proof that they ARE being victimised. We need to defend them because they are obviously in no condition to defend themselves!"

(Strangely enough, hookers who HAVE been victimised and abused and are willing to share that horror story with the world ARE SUDDENLY ENTIRELY CREDIBLE WITNESSES).

The same theory applies to Third World women marrying Westerners. If the woman claimed that she was truly happy taking care of the home and her loving husband, the feminazis would consider that proof positive that she was being 'brainwashed' into being a Stepford wife by an abusive mysogynist. [I]Her opinion can't be trusted because she has been manipulated and exploited and is unable to see her own situation clearly.[/i]

It seems the only REAL authorities on what its like to be a hooker or a 'mail order bride' are white American soccer mums - who have probably never even SEEN a foreign bride or hooker in their entire sheltered, middle class lives.

part of all of that is puritanical bullshit too. i'm under the understanding that some parts of the world don't consider the work of accepting a strange man't penis into the mouth, or vagina to be any different than any other type of work.

the feminazi would say:

"doing this can cause emotional scarring"-to which i would have to reply "yea, but so can lots of other kinds of work....i have literal nightmares, and am sometimes prompted to get up and punch walls in response to things that have happened to me doing fucking restaurant work.

"but it is dangerous"-again, so is a lot of other kinds of work. i have heard stories about men being literally vaporized by molten steel in the steel mills near my home. my next door neighbor caught a shot to the head from something swinging on a crane boom, and died at 38. men do all kinds of dangerous work, why isn't this an issue with them?

sometimes the women are enslaved.....in the event that someone is actually kidnapped or deceived into forced sex work, being held against their will, i personally would (given the ability to do so) gladly lead the raiding party to arrest and prosecute the slimy predators engaging in this behavior. however, other times, women do voluntarily contract to provide sex services in a brothel for a fixed period of time in exchange for accomodations and transportation out of their poor country...sometimes they do this as desperation from not having any other options.....and in other cases, they do it because they want to make "big money" and go shopping a lot. i'm sure that some feminazi's would say that it is wrong to be held in such a contract, but there is prescedent elsewhere for this type of thing....for example in miliary service, utilized by most evey government in the world....you can enter service, and deprive yourself of the liberty to go wherever you want, and to not be sent into environments where you could lose your life....there are certainly other examples, for example, signing yourself up as a crew memberr of a fishing boat. in that situation, you are certainly voluntarily deprived of your liberty for the duration of the voyage, and may in fact be risking your life on a daily basis.

"but it's still just wrong for a woman to have to sleep with a man she isn't attracted to" aaah now that logic and reason have failed us, it's time to just make arbitray judgments and proclamation.....let me bring up the hypocisy now of marriage (i think cho covered this a few days ago-maybe not this exact perception).......there are all kinds of women married and (ocassionally) accepting cock into their bodies that they aren't especially attracted to.....perhaps these women underneath it all feel that the sex workers just aren't charging enough and scewing with their market share.

by the way, i encountered the simplistic identification of "good" and "bad" in brain dead hausfaus while i was a financial advisor. my boss, rep001hinly incompetent as a money manager made a half mill a year shifting around the investments of about 400 brainless oprahzombies......they let him do pretty much whatever he wanted to do because he is a nice man who talks to them about their children, grandchildren, fishing, health ailments....etc


b9k

ps i wish that petition forum were still open....we could have some fun with it...there were a few rep001hing comments up there pertaining to the collective idiocy. does anyone know of anyplace else on the net that we could go and fuck with people like this?

I saw this on other board and thought I'd it post here. It's about an American Guy and his American wife.

I had plenty of BJ's in the year and a half we dated. Not one since the wedding band went on. We also had sex 2-3 times per week while dating. On our wedding night, my wife told me she was too tired for sex. The following honeymoon week at a romantic resort in the Bahamas, we had sex only once. After I begged for it.

In the first few years of marriage had sex maybe once every 2 weeks, and only in missionary position. It was obvious it had become a chore to my wife. As soon as she became pregnant with our first child, sex stopped completely. No medical reason, she just flat out said she didn't want to until after the baby was born. After pleading for 6 months after that birth, she finally said O.K. Wouldn't you know, that one time was all it took, and she was pregnant again. That was 14 years ago, and also the last time we had sex.

We talked about it several times, until she admitted she just plain didn't like sex. She said it had nothing to do with me (I'm still fit and not unattractive), and she wasn't lesbian. She just didn't enjoy sex, never had, and never will. But said she would occasionally go through the motions if I insisted. Don't know about you guys, but pretty hard for me to get and keep a woody up (even tho my wife is very attractive) when I know my partner is not interested. So I never insisted.

About a year ago, my wife told me she suspected I was cheating on her, and that if she ever found out for sure, she would leave me. I had never cheated (paid or unpaid). But the whole threat thing pissed me off, especially being falsely accused.

That's when I decided to start hobbying. Haven't regretted it since.

When will men generally realise......only about 5% of women enjoy sex.....for what it is, what it gives back etc....a further 5-10% will enjoy it in the right circumstances....ie..holidays, alcohol on the go..a guy they really...really fancy.......so that leaves......85%...to whom sex ...means little or nothing....

If it meant anything to a woman.......they would do the chasing, regardless of social/religious mores and morality...believe me.........so guys get up on your hind legs and beg.......like the lap dogs you are............:(



Whats the one food that puts a woman completely off sex......?

Wedding cake....


Why does the bride smile so much on her wedding day?

Cos thats the day after which, she will never ever have to give another blow job............go figure.....

Regarding the fellow in Astor's recent post:

"I had plenty of BJ's in the year and a half we dated. Not one since the wedding band went on." Dude, if you're getting that kind of satisfaction why spoil things by getting married?

"We also had sex 2-3 times per week while dating." Again, keep on dating!

"On our wedding night, my wife told me she was too tired for sex." UH-OH!!!
Red flags going up all over the place. At this point, you should have come to this full realization that something is terribly wrong.

"We had sex only once. After I begged for it." Married less than a week and already we can see who's in charge.

"14 years ago, and also the last time we had sex." You should have started getting some on the side..... a good time to start would have been about 14 years ago :) .

That was my policy even back in the days when I was dating. There's always going to be these girls who don't put out right away. Most of them are good to go after a few weeks. However, some of them test a guy by making him wait for it for months. This is also a strategy they use to get the upper hand in a relationship..... they are showing the guy that they don't need him as much as he needs her.

When I found myself dating a girl like that, I'd see her maybe 2 or 3 times a week. On the other nights, I'd spend some quality time with women who were a bit more "easy going". Of course women don't like it when a guy does that. They call it cheating. The real reason they don't like it is because there's no way they'll maintain the upper hand if the guy has his other options available.

Last quote:
"About a year ago, my wife told me she suspected I was cheating on her, and that if she ever found out for sure, she would leave me. I had never cheated (paid or unpaid). But the whole threat thing pissed me off, especially being falsely accused. That's when I decided to start hobbying. Haven't regretted it since."

Amen brother, amen.

Rock

[QUOTE=Ezinho]Oh yeah, I have a message for Jane McGuire of Maine, the woman that suggested "all American men looking for a date, should have their background info and a search through sex offender registry results in hand before asking any woman out."

FUCK YOU, C**T!!![/QUOTE]I don't see Jane McGuire on page one, so Good Lord, man! You actually read past the first page of this drivel? I can't even get past the first page of a sensationalist political tabloid, oops I mean newspaper, without laughing my ass off about intentional omissions and biased reporting.

Well, anyway, at least Jane here has all but admitted her seething distrust of men who talk to foreign women, and isn't wrapping her statment in a gold-fringed flag like damn near every TV talk show host, oops I mean "cable news reporter."

Giggity,

It looks like you are new to this forum. Welcome! Here you will hear the TRUE opinions from those who aren't afraid to speak their minds.

The truth is, there are women who absolutely hate what we do. They hate us for buying sex, instead of begging for it.

They hate us for daring to look for a wife outside the national border. They hate us even more when they see how young, beautiful and easy-going she is...... especially compared to them. They even hate women.... any woman who breaks ranks and makes a man happy without first negotiating the ultimate price.

What's more, they don't just hate us and leave it at that. Many of them actively seek to punish us for doing these things. They agitate, mobilize and try dreaming up new regulations and passing laws that are purposely designed to keep us on our knees.

Think I'm paranoid? Look at what happens to the average guy in divorce court. Look at the laws here regarding prostitution..... then compare how things are in other countries. Look at IMBRA...... designed to make it far more difficult for men to meet and marry foreign (ie. better) women. Imbra was cooked up and introduced by 2 middle-aged FEMALE politicians.

Jane McGuire, and others like her, have an agenda. We should keep an eye on them and oppose them whenever and however we can.

Rock

[quote=bart9000]part of all of that is puritanical bullshit too. i'm under the understanding that some parts of the world don't consider the work...to be any different than any other type of work.[/quote]
not entirely true - even in other parts of the world, such as mine, where sex work is considered 'legitimate' (if not entirely 'legal') in most parts of the country and sex workers are taxed, unionised and (in theory) covered by industrial and oh&s law, sex work is still not considered to be 'normal' work and sex workers themselves are still subject to all the same stigma, discrimination and outright hatred from society, that they are in any other part of the world. (but you're right in blaming a lot of that on "puritanical bullshit").

[quote] "but it is dangerous"...men do all kinds of dangerous work, why isn't this an issue with them?[/quote]
ah...because in the other types of work that you're talking about, other men are not the danger! this is not about whether or not men are the victims. this is about men being the perpetrators. i know most people see sex work as a 'women's issue' - and with 90something percent of sex workers being female, it largely is - but if you have a closer look at the other 10ish percent, you'll notice something very interesting. male and transsexual sex workers, who see male clients, are treated exactly the same way by society as female sex workers. they are seen as abused, victimised, at risk and in danger, just like the girls are. just as female sex workers are painted as being drug dependent, uneducated and sexually dysfunctional (generally assumed to have been abused as children or treated badly by men in adulthood), men and transsexuals who have sex with men for money are also assumed to be drug addicted, uneducated, abuse victims with sexual identity issues - unlike men who have sex with women for money.

compare the images associated with the words 'rent-boy' or 'male prostitute', to the word gigolo. a rent-boy is a junkie standing on a street corner looking for a man to give him a bed for the night in exchange for a blow job - a gigolo is a suave, intelligent handsome man who is an expert in sex (female sex workers are rarely ever considered 'experts' in their field!!), who does the job for the glamour and excitement it provides. compare the movies working girl and pretty woman - where the hooker with a heart of gold is 'rescued' by her night in shining armour - to the comedy deuce bigolo. the fact that it is a comedy says something about how society perceives men who charge women for sex. compare the gigolo's sprawling home to the cheap, nasty flat that julia roberts' pretty woman lives in. compare the romantic dinner dates that deuce goes on, to the violence and abuse that julia experiences. compare the gigolo's jetsetting lifestyle (why he needed a housesitter in the first place) to julia hocking her arse on a street corner.

to me that says that when it comes to sex, men are powerful and in control of their own bodies - women are submissive and not in control and therefore at risk of exploitation and abuse at the hands of men. men and transsexuals, for some reason, suddenly fall into the 'female' category as soon as they charge for sex. (oh, hang on, we don't charge men for sex - that would suggest some element of control. men buy us and use us for sex!)


as to your other points...

yes, some women are enslaved and 'forced' to pay off debts, contracts, etc. that is because in most countries - even where prostitution is legal - sex workers cannot enter the country legitimately as a sex worker (that is, they cannot apply for a working visa to work in the sex industry). if they could do this legally, there would be no need for traffickers or middle men to falsify documents and smuggle them in. the women could enter the country (and leave) of their own accord. why can't they do this? because moralists/feminazis/religious zealots refuse to allow sex work to be seen as, and treated as, a legitimate occupation. (this very topic is the current discussion in the morality section).

yes, the job is dangerous. even in the safest of sex working environments (like australia), sex workers are robbed, beaten, stalked and raped, all the time. we are ripped off by clients and brothel owners and (believe it or not) the tax dept. we are harassed by police. isn't this, in itself, a good argument to criminalise the sex industry? no! this happens because the industry is criminalised! by forcing us to operate illegally (or at best, in a legal 'grey area') we have no support from police and no legal recourse when we are mistreated. so why is sex work not decriminalised for sex workers' safety? because moralists/feminazis/religious zealots refuse to allow sex work to be seen as, and treated as, a legitimate occupation.

and as for 'emotional scarring' - there have been surveys carried out all over the world that ask sex workers what is responsible for any emotional scars they may have from their time in the industry. their answer is always, overwhelmingly, the stigma associated with being a wh*re. its the opinions and attitudes of society that hurt us the most. its the way they portray us on the tv and in the newspapers. its the way judges let off serial killers and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url] who 'only' targeted prostitutes. its the fear that you live with, every day of your life (even once you stop working) that someone may find out about your past and you could lose everything. its the myths and lies about sex workers and the sex industry that are accepted as fact by most of society. and who perpetrates those myths? the moralists/feminazis/religious zealots who refuse to allow sex work to be seen as, and treated as, a legitimate occupation! (are you starting to see a pattern here? :) )

apologies for continuing this discussion in the aw section, when i really should have moved it to the morality section, but i figured that this topic does go some way to describing some women's prejudices and attitudes towards other women and the sexual power dynamic between women and men.

ps. bart: i don't think it's that hookers aren't charging enough - i think its that we are doing it too blatantly. that is, too honestly. the 'average' woman might be thinking "if he wants my pussy, i'm gonna slowly manipulate him into buying me dinner, then jewellery, then the house and car". a hooker says "if you want my pussy - give me 200 bucks!" :)

I see that you have adopted one of my favorite tools, exposing hypocrasy through reversing the genders in a given situation:

A couple of observations:

1. It's been said here before-Prostitution....it's the only honest way to get laid.

2. This board is pretty flexible as you know....we go all the way from Bush Bashing to expatriation issues (two closely related isssues in fact).....the only time I have ever seen anyone call "off topic" is when we are beating our troll.

3. In addition to the paternalism (more on that in a moment) as have pointed out before, the prohibition (it's well established that they don't work by the way, leading back into you crim/decrim points) is about POWER...the more that men want sex and can't get it, the more power women have, which manifests all over the place.....just the other day, I met a hot little 22 year old piece of ass who has a SEXY finance job (one that I would give up a testicle to get-I have an MS in that field)....her qualification..a BS in psychology.....plus somewhere, a hiring authority who wants to fuck her. I can't help but think that if the market price for hot young pussy were established, and supply was available, the hiring authority in that case would have been less motivated by his dick, and more prone to say hire someone who can tell him what a correlation coeficient is.

(Going to watch Deadwood....more later......Calamity Jane rules all!!!)


OK I'm back....Damn no Calamity Jane this week.

4. The paternalistic bulllshit (major perpetratorrs being white middle class biddies, along with religious fucks) goes far beyond sex workers.....I find it quite patronizing (the same way that you do) that some of these people feel a need to determine what literature, film and radio broadcasts I should be consuming as I am most certainly incapable of making these determinations on my own........I REALLY need some simple minded, ignorant, dumb as fuck housefrau to decide that I can't handle watching "The Shield", reading "Catcher in the Rye", or listening to "Howard Stern", without suffering personal harm or engaging in socially destructive behavior.

5. On a completely different subject.......there is a girl at my job....17 years old (18 in a few months), she is smoking fucking hot....she literally looks like a petite little pornstar, but is just a hair geeky, which makes her even hotter, because it makes her seem "gettable".......she is smart, funny, and cool as hell. And I am so proud of her. Her long standing boyfriiend is NICE, very smart, responsible studious, hardworkinig, somewhat geeky and insecure, and treats her like a princess, is crazy about her and faithful,..........basically about the furthest fucking thinig that one could be from some the "bad boy loser"/jerks/smooth talkers/"alpha males" (quotations because from high school, those are the guys who often end up wth a glamorous career working for the local oil change place) that most of her hot little contemporaries pine over. This is the way that the fuckinig world shoulld be.



B9k

To those of you incensed by the pro-IMBRA petition that Chocha posted the other day - I found a (much more rational, level-headed) anti-IMBRA petition you might be interested in.

[url]http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/174725004?ltl=1151287024[/url]

We love you Nursey!!!
B9k

[QUOTE=Bart9000]We love you Nursey!!![/QUOTE]
Awww shucks, babe. Much appreciated. Although you might regret saying that in a minute - I'm about to go all feminist on your ass... :)

[QUOTE]POWER...the more that men want sex and can't get it, the more power women have, which manifests all over the place.....[/QUOTE]
This is a statement that's been made in this section, over and over, since Adam was a boy - I had a problem with it then and I still do now. I don't get it! Are you honestly suggesting that the whole power dynamic between women and men is shifting because men don't have ready access to pussy? Do you really believe that the unfulfilled sexual desires of men, as individuals or collectively as a gender, are a force of such significance in the grand scheme of things, that men will eventually crumble under the pressure and be forced to submit to the whims of a matriarchal New World Order, just to get a root? Isn't a wee bit insulting to to men? I mean...you're basically accusing mankind of thinking with their dicks. ;)

I too have a theory about the power dynamic in today's political climate. Many years ago, the Church stomped all over the world's matriarchal societies and installed a man at the head of every family dinner table. Over the centuries that followed, a man was free to drink, gamble, vote, travel, be educated and indulge in pleasures of the flesh. His wife existed solely to serve him, as maid, cook, nanny and wh*re. Every man was a king and the whole world was their kingdom. Their power was absolute.

Then, a few decades ago, the Women's Movement arrived on the scene and to cut a very long story short, men were eventually forced to concede that women were actually human after all and, as such, we probably deserved a few more rights than the right to pop out your babies, cook your eggs and wash your dirty underpants. By the 60s and 70s we had discovered a new right that you guys had been hiding from us for centuries - the right to have indiscriminate casual sex with strangers, without having to marry them first. We also discovered employment and then we could have financial security, as well as sex, without needing to get married. And so the sexual revolution began.

Over the next few years, women gained more and more independence, power and political clout. Women voted for things that would improve women's health and social status, such as making abortion and the contraceptive pill accessible and changing divorce laws so that a) women could leave domestic violence situations and b) when they did leave, they didn't walk away with nothing but the clothes on their back. (I know this eventually went overboard, but their original intentions were good). More childcare centres were opened so that mothers could return to the workforce and affirmative action plans gave women more diverse occupations to choose from. And in many countries, prostitution was decriminalised and/or legalised, with feminists supporting sex worker activists' claims that it was a woman's right to use her own body as she sees fit.

Ok, that brings us to today. Today, I DO see the power dynamic beginning to shift, but not towards women. What I see is men trying to claw that power BACK. In the last couple of years (and this is why I just summarised the entire history of womankind - not to be a pain in the ass, but so I can demonstrate the rise and fall :) ) our Governments have been slowly stripping away many of the rights that feminists fought so hard to secure.

There are moves all over the world at the moment to REcriminalise abortion. Many countries are reviewing their prostitution laws, with some who used to have a liberal approach now turning towards outright abolition. A few years ago, teenage girls were being told that condoms were not only the boys responsibility and that they should be carrying them as well - now total abstinence is being preached at schools. Here, there are currently attempts to raise the age that girls can access the Pill without their parents consent and teenagers are being denied access to the morning-after pill. Actually, the morning-after pill was only made available over the counter a couple of years ago, but now there is talk of withdrawing it again and returning it to prescription-only. The Federal Government is in the process of slowly changing the divorce laws with the aim of make them harder to obtain. They are also offering financial incentives to married women to encourage them to stay in the home and pop out more children. Childcare has become inaccessible to many and unaffordable to most, but despite Govt promises to fix it, nothing has been done. Welfare payments to single parents are being cut (are they trying to make us single parents get married, or are they trying to discourage single childless women from making the decision to have a baby alone?)

What I see is a push towards 'traditional' families and 'traditional' gender roles (read: putting the man back at the head of the dinner table) and a really big blow to women's sexual and reproductive freedom. HOWEVER, if the Government takes away all our freedoms and forces us back into subservience - but unlike in the old days, we'll know what we're missing out on this time - women are REALLY gonna be wanting some sort of reward in exchange for the only bargaining tool that we'll have left. Pussy is gonna be worth more than gold and I can see you guys having an even harder time than you're having now.

unless the entire planet converts to fundamentalist islamic ways of thought, i don't see this reversal of power actually occuring. i'm all for women having the rights that men have, but for them to complain about being oppressed for the last five millenia and to try to "balance the scales" by augmenting those rights (in other words penalizing men and putting us at a higher/tighter standard than women) is the same bullshit that they accuse us of having done since before the dawn of recorded history. some crude examples would be: when a woman accuses a man of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], the public instantly assumes she is right and he is wrong. sexual harassment: same thing. employment: i'm not certain that affirmative action would be the best course of action if you are going to hire the best applicant for the job instead of fulfilling a quota set by a government that is slowly being worn down by the relentless feminazi agenda that will not end at equality for the sexes, but our (men's) eventual subjugation. remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and as long as they are around to vociferously promote their argument to an unwitting (and/or uncaring) audience, they will gain ground, like kudzu. for a specific argument, divorce: if a woman stays at home and takes care of the "king's" kids and upholds the maintenance of the house, i have no prob with her getting a sizeable settlement from the divorce, since she invested a sizeable chunk of her life and effort toward the union. however, if said woman tries to drain the last drop of financial blood from a guy simply to satisfy a craving for revenge, then i have a huge prob with that. women have it better now than in the past and i don't see the sentries of feminism ever letting it go backward.

Nursey,

I can speak only for myself that despite musings to the contrary, am not looking for the day that women are returned only to having the rights of children....or the rights of the family pet. Those days were an imbalance of fairness and equity.

The "pussy power" that you do not believe in is making an affect much more on a micro level than the macro, which you seem to be asserting.....you don't think that women have power in this country? I have to point to consumer spending....near my home on the commercial strip, there is on average, every half mile, a 10,000-20,000 square foot furniture superstore......and I really don't think that it is men as a whole who are driving the demand for $10,000 new living room sets......then we have SUV's also.....often 30-50K to run back and forth to the corner grocery store, tanning studio, and kid's soccer practice.

Women don't have power? You along with us were maligning paternalistic "biddies"....who are politically powerful due to having copious free time and financial resources.....Why do they have these resources? Is it because they work endless hours under dangerous conditons? No. Is it because they have developed high level skills in medicine, law, or business? Not so much, they are generally ignorant and isolated from reality....the money and comfortable lifestyle comes primarily from the work of men, who's primary motivation in getting married is to "buy the cow"

Divorce is now, again, an imbalance...... I agree with you that a MOTHER and her children should not be cast into the streets for failing to please her husband......this is unconsciounable. However, on the other hand, it is also unconsciounable that a man now who can easily be divorced at the whim of his wife, has to then support her and the kids in the big luxurious suburban house and keep up her SUV payments ("the style to which she is accostomed").....while trying to stil support himself, and toss together a few dollars for his retirement after he has been cleaned out by the divorce.....yes, he has a responsibility to his children....would it be so terrible to have to move to a safe clean, but plain 3 bedroom apartment (partially underwritten by the ex-husband), and ride the bus to your little job......not "the style to which you are acustomed" but still hardly being tossed into the streets.....and under that scenario, the husband has a fighting chance of making a new life for himself.

And yes, women are over powered in other ways, such as what Sin mentioned in the ability to have a man guilty until proven in sex related allegations. A woman can literally end a man's career with an allegation of sexual harassment, and the burden of proof is on the man to prove himself innocent. I have seen it(in actual response to something having nothing to do with sex) happen.

And yes, as Sin asserted, the trend is towards not equalization, but instead towards subjugation. Western society is becoming increasingly feminized, and males and male behavior are being progressively made into the underclass....a recent trend has been to push males out of the education system (controlled by women hmmmmm), for basically not acting like girls........male enrollment in college is I believe on a percentage basis at an all time low, and in a few years, there should be an interesting collision of trends as a lack of educated skilled males to be strong providers collides with women's propensity to drop out of the "real" workforce and be homemakers.........women may find themselves in a position of being forced to be the "breadwinner" as their lesser producing husbands keep little nothing jobs, attend to the children, and maintain the household.........and threaten to take away the wealth that they have accumulated in a divorce.

B9k

Oh, and regarding the bible thumping morons who are against contraception, abortion, and REALISTIC sex education plans et, all, I will laugh my ass off when that one comes home to roost....hopefully while safely ensconsed in a pimp daddy condo in Eastern Europe, or a private island in the Carribean.

[quote=bart9000]women don't have power? you along with us were maligning paternalistic "biddies"....who are politically powerful due to having copious free time and financial resources...[/quote]
and i will continue to malign feminazis and religious zealots and anyone else who aims to create one rule for one part of society and another rule for the other. i don't care whether its about black and white, rich and poor, male and female or wh*res and saints - i believe in equality. i believe that everyone should have equal access to employment, health services and the legal system. i certainly don't believe that women deserve more rights than men, just as i don't want to see a return to men having more rights than women. i am absolutely on your side when it comes to alimony payments (not usually a factor in aussie divorces, unless you're a hugely rich megastar), 70/30 property splits and automatic placement of children with mothers. i, personally, don't believe in 'affirmative action' of any kind (whether it's about gender or colour) if it means that some moron will get the job over someone more qualified, just because their skin is black or they have a vagina. i also don't believe anyone has the right - male or female - to tell us what we can and can't do in our own bedrooms (sex workers and the gay and lesbian community) or to our own bodies (abortion, contraception and casual sex) or censor what books we can read or what movies we can watch, blah, blah, blah. the list of civil liberties violations, mostly made in the name of radical feminism and/or religious zealotry, is endless.

and i am definitely not saying that women don't have power. women are very much the target demographic for most advertising and it's not just for the fridge and washing machine any more. i used to work in real estate and as much as you had to impress the husband (because he was the one signing the cheque, so he had to at least trust you with his money) ultimately, the decision on which home to buy was usually made by the woman. same goes for the family car. to me, that makes a degree of sense, because she will be the one spending the most time there and she is more able to assess whether it's 'child-friendly', etc - but i can't see men ever having allowed women to make such huge financial decisions in the past. and women still have a fair degree of clout in the political arena, with more and more women becoming strong political figures - however, i actually see that being to the detriment of women. as i have said many times before...women are our own worst enemies. between the tendency to 'behave like men' to prove themselves in politics and the jealous/judgemental way that some women treat other women, things like sexual and reproductive freedom seem to suffer when placed in the hands of female politicians. women can be very cruel to each other. but i digress... :)

the point you made about less men entering college was a very interesting one. if that is indeed the case and there will eventually be less skilled/qualified men entering the workforce than there are women, it has the potential to really alter the power dynamic in middle to upperclass families. even without the (somewhat dated) notion that men should be the breadwinner just because he's the man of the house, men are generally the ones who keep their jobs after the kids are born because they have always had a much better capacity to earn than women do. wouldn't it be an interesting 'social experiment' to see what happens when women are the leering, sleazy ceos pinching the mail boy's arse and the men are at home with the kids and dr phil. how would workplace sexual harassment laws change? how would divorce courts deal with the property settlements and custody issues? would women eventually spend their free time in bars and brothels looking for younger men, complaining loudly that their fat house-husband has 'let himself go' and is too tired for sex any more? hmmm very interesting indeed!

i do have a comment to make about the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]/sexual harassment issues that both of you mentioned, but i'll have to come back to that later. it's my son's birthday today and i've gotta go make him a birthday cake. :)

[quote=rubber nursey]i do have a comment to make about the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]/sexual harassment issues that both of you mentioned, but i'll have to come back to that later. it's my son's birthday today and i've gotta go make him a birthday cake. :)[/quote]

wish your son a happy 16th b-day for me, doll!

It's the other one...my 'baby' turns 10 today. Oh my God! When did I get so OLD??!!! LOL

But thank you, babe! :)

Doll, the day I don't wanna do naughty things to you (I never mentioned I have a thing for redheads) is the day you can call yourself OLD, not a DAY before!

M5, the fact that RN is a woman, she's gonna ALWAYS present a view that is central to a woman (a woman who actually sees both sides, mind you), but I gotta hand it to her that she DOES present some facts that ARE irrefutable. I'll never begrudge her the desire to try to make the plight of women BETTER than it is. I don't think she wants to make a world where subjugation of men is the norm, but merely to make it more equitable. I have more dealings with her than most of you here, dating back several years, so, my endorsement of her is not something I do lightly.

marak - i would much rather you were 'open in your disdain' than sucking up my arse on the board and then slagging me off in private. i respect both your honesty and your opinion.

my opinion, as sin said, is always gonna come from a female point of view - as a woman, it's the only frame of reference i have. but as a woman, i experience the world differently to you and your experience of the world is different to mine. bart and i are not so much presenting undeniable facts of how the world is - we are essentially describing how the world is for us, as individuals of opposite genders. and i am not necessarily addressing every point that he makes because either a) it's not how i see the issue and i am presenting how i do see the issue for his assessment, or b) i agree with him. as a matter of fact, i have agreed with almost everything he's said in his last few posts, but on some issues i don't agree with his perception of what causes the particular issue. for example, i completely agree with his statements on female consumer spending...what i don't understand is the correlation between that and the amount of sex that men are getting. are we really saying that a man is willing to spend half a million dollars on a house and an suv, just so his wife doesn't withhold sexual favours from him? wouldn't it be soooo much easier, if sex really is the primary goal, to just have an affair? go to a hooker? does withholding sex really make a woman that powerful? as i said before, i find that concept just a wee bit insulting to men, but that could be because i genuinely don't understand the issue - which is why i am genuinely asking for bart's opinion on it.

for the record, i said 'if that's the case' with regards to less men entering college, for two reasons. one, because i am not an american and would have no clue what the gender balance in american colleges is (nor australian colleges for that matter, because i don't move in those circles). and two, because bart used the qualifier "i believe", which i took to mean that he wasn't sure of the exact facts.

and i also stated that i would get back to address the sexual harassment issue when i was finished playing housewife and mother. :)

i'm not excited by the prospect of any part of the community being forced into subjugation, and that includes men. i believe it's bad for men and women when one party has more power than the other, just as it is when one race has power over another. this is absolutely not about bart being wrong and me being right, or vice versa. this is me sharing how i view the world - as it affects me, as a woman - and hearing about how bart (and others) experience the world as men. you can't claim, with authority, that the grass is greener on the other side, unless you take a peek over the fence.

I seriously doubt that men and women will ever swap roles to any significant degree, at least in the US. I have female friends who have good incomes but they still blatantly state that they're looking for a man to pay the mortgage.

Despite the religious right's success in lobbying the president to deny naughty NGO's Federal dollars for family planning programs, the average American male does not support such initiatives, so it is rather unfair to claim that men in general want to reverse the progress previously made in this area.

When it comes to marriage, it is usually the woman who aggressively markets the cow and demands a purchase contract. Most men seem perfectly to content to fuck the pussy with no commitment until the woman pressures them into marriage through threats to cut off access to the pussy, an "unplanned pregnancy" or numerous other tactics to get her man.

I don't think women ever need to worry about men forcing them to stay at home and bear children while they go out to work as it was in the past. The new economic reality pretty much requires both parties to a marriage to work outside the home in order to maintain a good standard of living. Less college educated men means that more women will have to work full time if they don't want to end up living in a trailer. That in turn means they are less likely to have many, if any, children. The birth rates for many industrialized are low or negative. The US is the exception due to the fact that hispanic immigrants tend to have more children than if they had remained in their own countries.

Feminists did some good things for women's rights, however, like all good things it can be taken too far when it gets to radical extremism. Moderation is key. Now, if America loses the Gobal War on Islamic extremists then women can forget about driving SUVs, going to school or making decisions. Perhaps, the best thing a feminist can do to protect women's rights to go see her friendly Army recruiter.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]...the average American male does not support such initiatives, so it is rather unfair to claim that men in general want to reverse the progress previously made in this area.[/QUOTE]
I was talking the men currently in power - the Bush Administration and the Australian Federal Government in particular. No offence to the Americans amongst us, but that Dubya is one scary sonofabitch. And my own Prime Minister has his head planted so far up your President's arse, that he has no choice but to follow him around on his knees, like the snivelling little toad that he is. No offence to the Christians amongst us either, but I consider a Christian extremist just as dangerous as any Islamic extremist. A zealot is a zealot; there is just no reasoning with them. The thought that one of those zealots is also one of the most powerful men in the world, is really quite frightening to me.

I should mention that it's also rather unfair to claim that women in general support some of the outlandish so-called 'feminist' policies that have been discussed so often in this section. :)

I'm not sure I agree that marriage is usually demanded by the woman. Sure, many women want to get married, especially if they want to have children. Women are also very insecure and yes, its nice to know that your man 'belongs' to you and he's not (hopefully) still running around sowing his wild oats. But many men think the same way. Men still want to have a family and raise children. Men also like to put the ring on a woman's finger to show her (and other men) that she now 'belongs' to him. Surely the decision to get married should be based on a desire you BOTH have to take your relationship to the next level. I guess sometimes one party may want it more than the other, but short of the 'unplanned pregnancy' type scenario you mentioned, nobody can really be FORCED into getting married.

But I do agree with what you said about both parties being forced to work and less couples having children. I think it's sad that we've become so money hungry and possession-driven, that we would choose working towards a condo and a Mazerati over a having children. People used to save for a home that they could raise their families and grow old together in - now people save for an early retirement so they can travel the world staying in 5-star resorts and sleeping with exotic hotties. Very sad.

People used to save for a home that they could raise their families and grow old together in - now people save for an early retirement so they can travel the world staying in 5-star resorts and sleeping with exotic hotties. Very sad.[/QUOTE]

I don't see the sad part in the above statement. It is what I intend to so, I believe I am the best person to know what makes me happy, and I also believe such plans shall not hurt anybody else.

What do I find sad? Children being raised by couples constantly fighting, often over family finances. Also couples becoming parents without thinking long and hard about whether that is right for them or the children, but jumping in without much thought because that is what all their friends are doing, or the wife is bored at her day job. Also is having children that generous? It is usually considered selfish when someone decides not to have children, but if we are really becoming parents purely because of the care we have for children, shouldn't we be helping the poverty stricken children in the world first before we decide to introduce our own into the world? Of course if a couple decided not to have children, and instead use the money intended to raise them on sponsoring children in poverty stricken countries in desparate need ,that may not work. That couple would miss out on the unconditional day to day love you usually receive from your own children, you wouldn't "fit in" with all the mother's group discussions about kids, and the wife would have plenty of spare time in the day to do what? maybe search for paid employment?

What is sad and what is selfish?

There are 50,000 people born into this world every day, many of whom will never live to see their teen years due to disease, malnutrition, war, etc. On one side of the coin, bringing another human being into the world WITHOUT a lot of thought is plain stupid and selfish. A former coworker of mine suffered this dilemma. He and wifey ALREADY had a kid (who has anger management issues, it seems, AND is very strong for his age. I fear for their safety when he gets to be a teenager and DOESN'T get his way) and when wifey heard that her friend recently gave birth, she pressured her poor schmoe of a husband to have ANOTHER child (she wanted a girl but got another BOY) even though she has hypertension AND the medicine COULD have created problems with the birth. The kid came out fine through C-section. On the OTHER side of the coin, if I had a kid, I'd admittedly have an ulterior motive of my own: to pass on the martial art to HIM that will one day be passed on to ME by MY master. I'll admit to not being a kid-friendly adult, but interacting with one of my very own (biological or adopted) and passing on my life's experiences and watching him create his own would form a bond between us that I'd never known I was capable of. That being said, I wouldn't have a kid (okay, I can't "HAVE" a kid like say, RN can "HAVE" a kid) JUST BECAUSE my friends are having them. In my current situation, I'd be more likely to adopt a kid (IF I wanted one), or foregoing that, I'd meet Miss Right (and incur the ridicule of my bretheren from this board for swearing off my skirt-chasing ways), fall in love and make one with her AFTER a loooooong conversation about the pros and cons.

Very well said, Ozzie Trader and you're absolutely right. Looking back at my post, it does sound like I was concerned that more people weren't having children and playing happy families, but that isn't really how I meant it to come across. I have absolutely no problem with people retiring early and travelling the world, etc - I'm all for people doing what makes THEM happy.

It doesn't really have anything to do with having children. I guess what I find sad is modern society's obsession with money and 'things'. Have a look at what most of the relationship complaints on this forum are based on. Men don't want to get into relationships because dating means forking out lots of money to impress a woman (flowers, dinners, jewellery) it may lead to marriage (in which he will be expected to provide the house, car, etc) which may, in turn, lead to divorce (which could mean losing everything and starting all over again from scratch). Women apparently only care about how much money and power a potential date has and would only consider marrying him if she thinks he can keep her in the lap of luxury and elevate her social status. Even those women who DON'T care so much about a man's earning capacity, and are wealthy and/or successful in their own right, will avoid marriage because marriage could mean babies and babies could mean giving up their career and financial independence to play housewife and mother. (REALLY successful women also have the same concerns that men do about their less successful partner screwing them over and taking everything after the divorce).

That's what I find sad...that our obsession with money and material possessions could be so great that it stops us from even SEEKING happiness and emotional fulfillment with another person, let alone actually finding it.

keeping up with the Joneses. I remember reading an article about how a circle of women friends (okay, AW's to be specific, in defense of Rubber Nursey, 'cos I don't know if ladies in Oz do this) obsess about weddings and secretly envy the current bride-to-be, wondering if HER wedding will outshine THEIR wedding... if HER rock will outshine THEIR rock... if HER honeymoon will outshine THEIR honeymoon... etc. It's no longer focused upon the life journey the bride and groom will take after the celebration of the big day is over, but upon the BLING of the wedding day. Yes, sad indeed...

That's why we are in Iraq, and actively looking for ways to be in Iran, North Korea, China, Russia.... We are gonna love them to death, whether they like it or not.

When we are sick and tired of them, hell, we are just gonna divorce them, and liberate all their wealth. We will also try every trick in the book to drive them insane, leaving them with brain-splitting migraine headaches for the rest of their short and miserable lives...

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]
What do I find sad? Children being raised by couples constantly fighting, often over family finances. [/QUOTE]

Here's an idea,

Let's send all the lawyers and feminists over there to the countries we don't like. On the one hand, they might all get shot.... in which case we win. On the other hand, the lawyers and feminists so completely fuck things up in those other countries that they all go crazy.... in which case we win!

Rock

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Very well said, Ozzie Trader and you're absolutely right. Looking back at my post, it does sound like I was concerned that more people weren't having children and playing happy families, but that isn't really how I meant it to come across. I have absolutely no problem with people retiring early and travelling the world, etc - I'm all for people doing what makes THEM happy.

It doesn't really have anything to do with having children. I guess what I find sad is modern society's obsession with money and 'things'. Have a look at what most of the relationship complaints on this forum are based on. Men don't want to get into relationships because dating means forking out lots of money to impress a woman (flowers, dinners, jewellery) it may lead to marriage (in which he will be expected to provide the house, car, etc) which may, in turn, lead to divorce (which could mean losing everything and starting all over again from scratch). Women apparently only care about how much money and power a potential date has and would only consider marrying him if she thinks he can keep her in the lap of luxury and elevate her social status. Even those women who DON'T care so much about a man's earning capacity, and are wealthy and/or successful in their own right, will avoid marriage because marriage could mean babies and babies could mean giving up their career and financial independence to play housewife and mother. (REALLY successful women also have the same concerns that men do about their less successful partner screwing them over and taking everything after the divorce).

That's what I find sad...that our obsession with money and material possessions could be so great that it stops us from even SEEKING happiness and emotional fulfillment with another person, let alone actually finding it.[/QUOTE]I see your point now RN and agree with you. I know that my own plans to retire early are not driven by money or any material possessions. For me the money is not a way of accumulating material possessions. I plan on living in a very modest small apartment, drive a basic cheap car, and spend many months of the year overseas , and 2 or 3-star hotels well do me. It is all about freedom and choice. Whilst as far as employment goes I feel I am pretty lucky with my current job to be doing something I enjoy, I wish to get to the stage that if I go to work each day it is because I choose to , rather than have to. I want to spend my time doing exactly what I want to do, when I want to. And I also have a passion to travel, something that is limited with most available jobs.

But my current goals and attitudes make it very difficult dating in Australia at the moment. For example I meet up with a girl for a date they will ask how did I travel here (that is a cunning way of finding out what car you drive). Then the discussion can quickly turn to where I travelled from or where I am living ( a cunning way to find out if I have purchased a home, what suburb, how big etc). Then it will turn to how was work during the week (cunning way to sus out what industry and how senior you are, i.e. what salary you are on without actually asking). This seems to be how every date starts, a quick summary of balance sheet and income!

Now although I consider myself doing pretty well finanically for my age, given my goal of retiring relatively early, I drive a cheap car, and live in a cheap apartment in order to maximise my investments outside of these assets as that is where I plan on drawing my income from in the future. Also my personality is such that I am just not one to exaggerate what my job is. I know many other men who will dream up a long-winded title for their job to sound impressive but I am just a person with an honest attitude and am about being myself. There is no point putting on a fake act on the first date as it would get pretty tiring keeping it up in a long term relationship, you should just be yourself.

So after 5 minutes of a date, the girl will likely see me as someone with an average job that can't afford a decent car or house. Not all girls of course, but I have often detected some disaapointment in their reactions when I answer such questions. Of course there are some great girls who aren't superficial like that, but I have been on plenty of dates where it feels like you are starting a 100 mtr race with a handicap start of 50 mtrs. Remember when the girl's friends ask them how their date went, the first questions will often be what does he do for a living, where does he live etc. And most girls like it when their friends approve of who they are dating. If as a guy you haven't got great answers for such questions it's not that you haven't got any chance, its just that it makes things a lot harder and quite tiring to be honest.

I could easily go through many such dates where I just get nowhere, don't particularly have any fun either, many can be compared to a job interview to be honest. Then there is the cost involved which adds up over time. Once the decision to give up on such dating is made, the money saved can be put to an overseas trip. And at the end of the day financially there is probably not much difference between dating, or not dating but going on a couple of mongering trips a year. But one is not much fun it all. The other is a beautiful country, pretty girls, and lets say you have 2 overseas trips a year of 2 weeks at a time. 28 days, lets say the old fella is holding its own and sex twice a day means 56 times a year. I think I read a recent survey the average couple had sex less than 70 times a year anyway. But remember variety is the spice of life that the couples can generally never have.

So there you go, I reckon I could battle through the dating scene for a year, spend plenty of money, maybe have sex with 3 different women, all relatively un-attractive to me, and soon as I do sleep with them I will get a splitting headache about where the relationship is heading over the next 10 years, why do I have to spend time with my own mates occasionally rather than her, and if I don't give her an immediate sign that the chances are I am looking for marriage and kids, well most likely she will look elswhere pretty quickly anyway.

Then there is the mongering option I described above. Not a difficult choice really..

There are, in my opinion, only 2 valid reasons why a man should want to get married (and stay that way).

1. Because you really, REALLY want to have children. You're going to need a woman, and you're going to want to stick around in order to support your kids and give them the proper family environment. Marriage is the best way to do this.

2. For social appearances. I'm not kidding! A lot of positive things are assumend about a guy when he's married.... people tend to assume that you are stable, mature and responsible. Often, career advancement goes hand in hand with being married.

That's about it. If you don't care to have kids and you're doing allright with your job, there's not a lot of reasons why you'd want to get married. On the other hand, there's a whole list of reasons NOT to, such as the legal/financial risks, emotional stress and loss of personal freedoms.

Ozzie Trader has a pretty good grasp of the big picture. At age 50, he should be experiencing the best years of his life, living at a leisurely pace in some exotic locale while he enjoys quality sex with a variety of attractive women. At that same age, most men are heading into their senior years, having sex once a month with the same middle-aged woman they've been banging for the last 20 years. They will have finally paid off that expensive suburban home and maybe they can retire before they turn 60.

I like Ozzie's plan better. RN says a lot of people are obsessed with money and possessions, but I think they're really more obssessed with lifestyle. The money and other stuff are only indicators, or a means of achieving that lifestyle. Most people like the idea that someday they can live comfortably without having to go to work anymore. It's the same thing with most ISG members except we want to retire, live well..... and get laid, preferably by someone we just met.

Rock

I have been thinking about the following:

According to post 4272

Originally Posted by George90

I hope EVERYONE knows and fully understands that it is against US law for a US citizen or US permanent resident to travel abroad for the purpose of engaging in prostitution. The law is rarely enforced, so far only for sex with minors. But it is INSANE to have one's coworkers gossiping about your having sex with prostitiutes in Thailand. It WILL get to someone in LE, via a feminist, and you will have to explain a HIGHLY exaggerated story to a detective threatening you with arrest.

My question: can anyone provide a link to a website that discusses specifically the illegality of travelling overseas for paying for sex with non-minors? I have been unable to find discussion on this specific issue, despite my efforts with google (although lots of discussion about the law regarding minors).

I wonder if action in (for example) German FKK clubs really counts as prositution, since technically prositution is sex for money and what goes on in German FKK clubs is an exchange of time for money (with sex thrown in, but no essential; i.e. what the man and woman do with their time is not necessarily part of the financial transaction). I may be splitting hairs and I suppose that a jury would have to decide, if it ever came to that. But money for time in an German FKK club can't be much different from the exchange of money for time with a legitimate American escort, or a legitimate prositute in the counties of Nevada where that is legal.

Anyway, even on internationalsexguide.org I do not find much discussion on the illegality of international mongering (with non-minors) for citizens of the USA. This issue may be very important to some people, and perhaps deserves it's own thread. Am I missing something?

i've got my doubts that anyone is going to get into trouble anytime soon for mongering overseas.

who would press charges? where would they get their evidence, or witnesses? what would be the purpose or benefit of such actions? is there even a precedent for such a case (apart from ****d)?

if they ever did start prosecuting, they'd have to charge at least half of all male us military personel based overseas. imho, not gonna happen anytime soon.

rock

[QUOTE=Stinky Pete]

... it is against US law for a US citizen or US permanent resident to travel abroad for the purpose of engaging in prostitution.[/QUOTE]I'm not a lawyer. If you check out the US Code it might help. I was looking there and did not find anything explicitly saying an adult can not travel outside the USA for the purpose of having sex with another adult.

[url]http://www.gpoaccess.gov/uscode/search.html[/url]

There are parts of the United States where prostitution is legal, so I'm not sure there are federal laws against it.

It is illegal to have sex with a child anywhere under any circumstances, which might be where that quote is coming from...

[url]http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/trafficking_faqs.html[/url]

that such intereference could negatively impact said country's economy. Also, I'm rather certain that said countries have more immediate and bigger problems to deal with than an issue that generates a wink and a nod from those in authority who may very well engage in the SAME behavior. Monger to your heart's delight!

[quote=rock dog]i've got my doubts that anyone is going to get into trouble anytime soon for mongering overseas.

who would press charges? where would they get their evidence, or witnesses? what would be the purpose or benefit of such actions? is there even a precedent for such a case (apart from ****d)?

if they ever did start prosecuting, they'd have to charge at least half of all male us military personel based overseas. imho, not gonna happen anytime soon.

rock[/quote]the department of justice or maybe the department of state would press the charges, and it would get evidence and witnesses from high-and-mighty-for-i-art-holier-than-thou citizens who travel overseas simply to collect such evidence. besides, evidence and witnesses are becoming less and less necessary in our "justice system".

I apologise in advance if this seems the wrong area for such a post, but it is something I have been curious about and just not sure of the most relevant area to post it.

I see some very regular posters with their experiences and for some it seems as though they are at it full time, what a lifestyle!

Of course this makes me wonder how they do it? Did they build up a fortune early and retire? Were they lucky and inheritied it? Do they have their own business overseas? Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips?

So if anyone is interested in replying, I am curious to know...

How often you monger o/s? How your employment status allows for this? How old you are? And lastly how you explain your trips to others, for example we all know regular trips to certain parts of the world can be looked upon and judged in a certain way, so do you make up excuses, lie, or just not care about what others think!

For what its worth I work in the finance business, I am 30 y o, being in Australia get the opportunity for 4 weeks holiday a year. At this point the last few years at times I have mongered in various places each time, including some destinations not particularly renowned for this, so have went the tourist sort of angle and not shared my sexual exploits to others. Some trips I have known friends who were expats in the country so have been visiting them. Then there have been a couple of times I said I was travelling somewhere completely different.

Once again if you think this post is more relevant to another area can you tell me where? If not would love to hear some of the backrounds, particularly those who seem to engage in our beloved past time every week of the year! Even if you know about the other well known regulars and how they are at it so often I am intrigued to know.

Cheers

Ozzie Trader,

I don't monger like I used to, where I was going on trips every two months to Latin America. Now, if I ever go on a trip ( I still do one trip every two months, but they range from one day to 7 days, as I only have 3 week vacation for the entire year) On my trips, I tend to hook up with 2 or 3 women, and just do normal touristy stuff - that's all ! Mongering is an expensive addiction !

Why ? I have a woman where I live and one in DR - I'm happy !

If you really want to have an excuse for people who question your trips, just refer them to 2 website - flyertalk.com and airliners.net

On both websites you'll find mileage run addicts (just look it up and you'll see what I'm talking about) and people who make random trips to different parts of the world to meet up with fellow online members ( and perhaps you can also monger on the side).

Some of my close friends know that I hook up with different women frequently, and they mostly envy me ! However, most of the people I know just think I'm living my life by traveling and having fun. If any woman critiziced that I was traveling to another country to get pussy then I'd move on, you don't need that kind of b.tching - seriously!

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]I apologise in advance if this seems the wrong area for such a post, but it is something I have been curious about and just not sure of the most relevant area to post it.

I see some very regular posters with their experiences and for some it seems as though they are at it full time, what a lifestyle!

Of course this makes me wonder how they do it? Did they build up a fortune early and retire? Were they lucky and inheritied it? Do they have their own business overseas? Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips?

So if anyone is interested in replying, I am curious to know...

How often you monger o/s? How your employment status allows for this? How old you are? And lastly how you explain your trips to others, for example we all know regular trips to certain parts of the world can be looked upon and judged in a certain way, so do you make up excuses, lie, or just not care about what others think!

For what its worth I work in the finance business, I am 30 y o, being in Australia get the opportunity for 4 weeks holiday a year. At this point the last few years at times I have mongered in various places each time, including some destinations not particularly renowned for this, so have went the tourist sort of angle and not shared my sexual exploits to others. Some trips I have known friends who were expats in the country so have been visiting them. Then there have been a couple of times I said I was travelling somewhere completely different.

Once again if you think this post is more relevant to another area can you tell me where? If not would love to hear some of the backrounds, particularly those who seem to engage in our beloved past time every week of the year! Even if you know about the other well known regulars and how they are at it so often I am intrigued to know.

Cheers[/QUOTE]How they do it? It takes a lot of money, I not a cheap hobby, have lots of discretionary (extra) income. Hidden from wife!

Did they build up a fortune early and retire? I'm trying to.

Were they lucky and inheritied it? No.

Do they have their own business overseas? Not a good idea.

Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? I'm researching how.

Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips? I trying for that, its a good way to get it cheaper.

How often you monger o/s? Every 12 weeks

How your employment status allows for this? Vacation time, also three weeks. Best if you own your own business.

How old you are? 41

How you explain your trips to others? Lie, I go to the same place, but say a different destination every time.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]If they ever DID start prosecuting, they'd have to charge at least half of all male US military personel based overseas. IMHO, not gonna happen anytime soon.
Rock[/QUOTE]

Actually, about a year ago they passed a law making it a crime for military personnel and defense contractors to use the services of prostitutes. The law was drafted after some sensational stories about EE women in Bosnia and Filipinas in Korea being "sold as sex slaves" made it into the US media. Apparently, the brass got tired of soldiers trying to marry these women in order to rescue them and take them back to the US, so they supported the law.

Of course, none of these women ever choose to become *****s. They're all forced or tricked into the business, at least that is what they tell the G.I.s.

[QUOTE=Ozzie Trader]I apologise in advance if this seems the wrong area for such a post, but it is something I have been curious about and just not sure of the most relevant area to post it.

I see some very regular posters with their experiences and for some it seems as though they are at it full time, what a lifestyle!

Of course this makes me wonder how they do it? Did they build up a fortune early and retire? Were they lucky and inheritied it? Do they have their own business overseas? Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips?

So if anyone is interested in replying, I am curious to know...

How often you monger o/s? How your employment status allows for this? How old you are? And lastly how you explain your trips to others, for example we all know regular trips to certain parts of the world can be looked upon and judged in a certain way, so do you make up excuses, lie, or just not care about what others think!

For what its worth I work in the finance business, I am 30 y o, being in Australia get the opportunity for 4 weeks holiday a year. At this point the last few years at times I have mongered in various places each time, including some destinations not particularly renowned for this, so have went the tourist sort of angle and not shared my sexual exploits to others. Some trips I have known friends who were expats in the country so have been visiting them. Then there have been a couple of times I said I was travelling somewhere completely different.

Once again if you think this post is more relevant to another area can you tell me where? If not would love to hear some of the backrounds, particularly those who seem to engage in our beloved past time every week of the year! Even if you know about the other well known regulars and how they are at it so often I am intrigued to know.

Cheers[/QUOTE]How they do it? Discretionary income. (Wife can't know of)

Did they build up a fortune early and retire? No, but that's my plan

Were they lucky and inheritied it? No

Do they have their own business overseas? No

Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? That's my retirement plan.

Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips? That's what I'm trying to do.

How often you monger o/s? Every 3 months at least.

How your employment status allows for this? Vacation time, a couple of days ans the weekend.

How old you are? 41

How you explain your trips to others? Lie, alternate cities.

Chocha,

That's just more typical bullshit when you come right down to it. Some un-neccessary, intrusive, interfering law gets supported. Because it's the right thing? Nope, because they (military) had ulterior motives. More hypocrisy.

Also, very interesting to note the source of the problem.... too many guys falling in love with so-called "sex-slaves"! Because they want to rescue them.... or maybe because they found there was something about these girls that they really liked? Something about them that was better than what they were used to back home.

Rock

There comes a point when traveling educates yourself about yourself and the culture you come from and you see other possiblities.Its the same sort of reasoning that immigrants who flee to other countries aquire.Once you see the big picture you cant possibly be satisfied with staying in the same position when you know there is something better out there for you.Its called the will to live and once you give up on that you give up on yourself and you are in acceptance of your limitations.
How do people get to travel all the time? I consider myself lucky.My downfalls in my life has given rise to new opportunities.I settled a discrimination lawsuit a few years ago which was ruining my life here in the states.I didnt ask for it .It just happened. Im also a real cheapskate here in nyc.I cook all my meals at home and I dont waste $ on stupid things.I must admit I put myself in an uncomfortable situation while I am here but I know in a little time I will be living it up somewhere foreign getting double the bang for my buck so it evens out.Here I focus on my work and my travel plans and my future.I look at it as a commitment to my future and the work I need to do to get ahead.I havent found my country yet but I'm looking and because of this Ive opened up my own doors that I would not be able to do here.Its university all over again but with better perks once I graduate.

How they do it? It takes a lot of money, but I work my ass off in the US and make a six figure income due to working overtime, working as a charge nurse, and having holiday, weekend and night differentials. Plus it helps that I'm single and don't have any children.

Did they build up a fortune early and retire? I'm trying to, hopefully will be able to retire overseas in my mid 50s.

Were they lucky and inherited it? No.

Do they have their own business overseas? No.

Do they have some sort of business, maybe online, that they can run from overseas? No.

Do they work for a large multi-national corporation that allows them many business trips? No.

How often you monger overseas? Monthly to every other month

How your employment status allows for this? As a registered nurse, one only has to work 3 days per week, so I can go mongering every other week if I want to, provided that I work 6 days in a row. However, I choose to work overtime and get paid beaucoup money which I save to go overseas. If I were to work as a registry nurse, I can choose whenever I work. I'll probably do this sometime in the future, but I hate commuting to different hospitals right now.

How old are you? Late 20s

How do you explain your trips to others? I tell my colleagues that travelling is my hobby, which it is, although not all of it, LOL.

[QUOTE=Stinky Pete]My question: can anyone provide a link to a website that discusses specifically the illegality of travelling overseas for paying for sex with non-minors? I have been unable to find discussion on this specific issue, despite my efforts with google (although lots of discussion about the law regarding minors).[/QUOTE]

I am going to look for a specific quote. I looked into this when I first started mongering in the early 90s. What I remember reading at that time was that it is in general illegal to travel abroad to *specifically* do something that is illegal in the US, such as engage in prostitution. Another recent application is going to Canada or Europe to get prescription drugs that are unavailable in the US, such as RU486 before it was authorized by the FDA. I believe the law was passed in response to people in Miami going to pre-Castro Cuba *JUST* to gamble and use prostitutes, and people along the Mexico border going to Tijuana etc. for the sex and other fun.

[QUOTE=George90]I am going to look for a specific quote. I looked into this when I first started mongering in the early 90s. What I remember reading at that time was that it is in general illegal to travel abroad to *specifically* do something that is illegal in the US, such as engage in prostitution. Another recent application is going to Canada or Europe to get prescription drugs that are unavailable in the US, such as RU486 before it was authorized by the FDA. I believe the law was passed in response to people in Miami going to pre-Castro Cuba *JUST* to gamble and use prostitutes, and people along the Mexico border going to Tijuana etc. for the sex and other fun.[/QUOTE]

What about people who go to Amsterdam to smoke weed in the smoke houses? I'm sure there is a lot of other similar behavior that is outlawed in the US that is tolerated in other countries and is not acted upon in a detrimental manner. IF such conditions exist, I'd be happy to hear about it from anyone in order to watch my ass when need be. Thanx in advance...

My question to all of this:

Why are we bound to US sex prison laws when outside the US? Its ridiculous!! All of us in this board would be criminals.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]What about people who go to Amsterdam to smoke weed in the smoke houses? I'm sure there is a lot of other similar behavior that is outlawed in the US that is tolerated in other countries and is not acted upon in a detrimental manner. IF such conditions exist, I'd be happy to hear about it from anyone in order to watch my ass when need be. Thanx in advance...[/QUOTE]


uummmmmm if there is a law of this nature on the books, it sounds unenforceable (over "exclusively for") and would probably be struck down unconstitutional if they ever tried to prosecute on it.......just my uninformed opinion.........some rules are in place just so for the purpose of having them and maybe putting in a "chilling effect".

B9k

I casually glanced at some reports on other boards just to get a feel for come countries and it gave me pause. Many posters report that native citizens from other countries complain about the native women living in their country (names of specific countries are unimportant) as WE do about AW's. I didn't want to admit it before, BUT the common denominator to ALL this may be the saying: "Familiarity breeds contempt". A taste for the exotic may be the overwhelming cause that fuels our urge to take flight to other shores. However, I still won't renounce my posts about my observations of AW's. I'll just put them into perspective, step back and look at the bigger picture.

Sinanju,

It is true that women from all over the world have the same basic thinking when it comes to men; that is they're good to have around to provide financial resources, protection and manual labor. The difference from country to country is just how much women can get away with, whether the laws allow them to get away with it and the degree to with they use sex to get what they want from men.

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201755,00.html[/url]

Thats why I dont understand the GFE experiences that guys go after from pfp .Unless its got added advantages like shes a good tour guide or you get freebies (but is it really a freebie). When I first began going overseas I was smitten with the attention I got then you put everything into perspective and it still boils down to its the same shit but your just a little higher up in the food chain but now that I know this it comes back to where and when will you find the real deal?At least I now have a better idea of how to kill time in between.

all of them are difficult to deal with to some degree at some point or another....having to cope with them is just part of being male.....and of course they as a gender also have plenty to complain about with us....i personally don't pick up after myself very well.......some degree of friction is natural and inevitable

that being said, we here in the us have the unique pleasure of having women that are the biggest complainers while having the very least to complain about. they cannot be beaten or raped with impunity (obviously i'm not advocating this-making a comparison to historical contest, and current rough situations for women), have in the opinion of some, "superior" rights, have a social structure that is designed to insulate them from paying heavy consequences for bad decisions, and have men that are for the most part turned into sissyfied workhorses (i'm speaking primarily of the middle class incidently).......all of this, and a good number of our women still believe they are opressed, downtrodden and put upon....

b9k

Now, definitive proof of what I've been saying all along - that West Aussie women are hornier than any other women in the country!!

[url]http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21498,19683361-2761,00.html[/url]

**Today's orgasm tally for the 8 hours from 7am to 3pm - Him:4, Me:3. (He managed to get one up on me thanks to a 'Highway Special' on the way back from grocery shopping). So for the record, I am not one of the 28% of women in my age group suffering a 'sexual drought'. :)

Does anyone know of a similar study on American women?

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]
Does anyone know of a similar study on American women?[/QUOTE]

LOL.......If we're lucky, maybe twice a year.

Bart9K,

You speak of the eternal tension between men and women. It has existed since time began. Men have always sought to spread their genes far and wide with as many women as possible. On the other hand, women have always sought a mate who would stick around to help care of her offspring... thereby increasing the chances of their survival. Let's skip the rest of the evolution lecture and get to the good stuff.

Men want it. They want it often and (I can attest to this) they absolutely THRIVE on variety. Women are, by nature, opposed to this. The last thing they want is to give it up for some guy who's going to bugger off on them the second he gets bored.... which can happen after a year, a month, a week or even a couple of days. Let's face it, most of us here have that exact goal in mind when we meet the average woman. They know it and we try to convince them otherwise.

Here's the big problem.... the balance has been lost. Things have tipped quite a fair ways towards the female side when it comes to getting laid. There's probably a lot of reasons why, but that's how things are. Sure there's exceptions..... if you're one of the lucky few men at the top of the food chain, pussy is always available. But those guys are the exception. What's the rule? Decent looking guys dating chubby/fat chicks for 2 or 3 months hoping to eventually get laid!

It would be a lot better of there were domestically available, legalized alternatives. Something along the lines of the FKK clubs or the Brazilian termas. Something that DIDN'T cost 500 bucks a pop.

Things could be even better than that if we as men got together and stopped going along with all this PC bullshit, if we stopped getting married and started keeping our money to ourselves.

It all comes down to bargaining. Women want us to take care of them and support them. We like their company and we want to get laid. All this talk of being oppressed, downtrodden and put upon just sounds like a bargaining tactic to me.

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Men have always sought to spread their genes far and wide with as many women as possible. On the other hand, women have always sought a mate who would stick around to help care of her offspring... thereby increasing the chances of their survival.
...Men want it. They want it often and (I can attest to this) they absolutely THRIVE on variety. Women are, by nature, opposed to this. The last thing they want is to give it up for some guy who's going to bugger off on them the second he gets bored.... which can happen after a year, a month, a week or even a couple of days. Let's face it, most of us here have that exact goal in mind when we meet the average woman. They know it and we try to convince them otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Rock (and others) can I ask...what is your opinion on WOMEN who crave variety? Would you be satisfied in a relationship where you BOTH indulged in extra-marital sex? According to most of you guys, it's in a man's 'nature' to want frequent sex with lots of different women - what if that same compulsion is part of your WOMAN'S nature? Does she have the same freedoms that you expect to have in a relationship? Do you allow her to visit hookers or go out looking for a bit of strange, even if your sex life at home is satisfying, on the basis that SHE needs variety to 'thrive'?

PS. By using the 'nature' argument, you're not only excusing men for their womanising ways, but you're also excusing women for all the things that you guys so often accuse us of. Women are genetically programmed to find the best looking and most powerful lion in the pack, ensuring her offspring will not only be strong and healthy, but will also be protected and provided for as they grow up. Survival of the fittest. It's a wee bit hypocritical to assert that men should be allowed to sow their wild oats because it's in their genes - but at the same time condemn women for only sleeping with guys who have good looks and/or money.

if the two of us were seeing each other on a "fuck-buddy" basis (no powerful emotional attachments) and she didn't expect me to support a lifestyle that she would LIKE to be accustomed to (lots of jewelry and clothes and shoes, etc) I'd have no problem with her seeing other people. I'd ride it for as long as it lasts (YES, pun intended! LOL). In that situation, the two of us wouldn't demand a commitment from the other while secretly abrogating our agreement in order to have our cake and eat it too. HOWEVER, if we were in a monogamous relationship (the two of us agreeing to see NO ONE ELSE) and she fucks around after I give a part of my soul to her and she's enjoying my attention and gifts every now and then IN ADDITION to sampling sausage OUTSIDE the relationship, I'd walk through Hell wearing gasoline underwear in order to get the chance to make her life a living Hell on earth. So, Doll, in answer to your question, it depends, but, since you know me better than any poster here, you KNOW I'd go about it fairly. By that, I mean there would be no double standard.

Has anyone here dabbled in ecommerce as a means of earning a living in the US, while living or spending a considerable amount of time enjoying the pleasures of warmer climes? This could possibly be the answer to escaping AWs without having to go tribal.

I've been endeavoring up that way.........yet to earn dime one after a somewhat healthy investment, but I have hopes that a reasonably healthy five figure check is on it's way.....as well as possibly one or two others, probably in the low five figure range.

My first goal is to quit my little shit job to concentrate on doing this full time.........

B9k

Bart,

If you can make it work successfully, you'll have the option of being in your own "mansion" banging vixens thousands of miles from the old sex prison and still earning green. It can be a means of earning your cake and eating it too, and the extra toppings would certainly be a bonus. Showing up with a brief case of money and bribing the local mayor and police chief at your chosen destination is not an option for the average guy, so we have to come up with workable alternatives if you don't have a skill in high demand at your intended destination that actually pays a living wage.

Hello everyone,

Just thought I write a piece to contrubute. I have been single for 10 yrs and never really ever dated any other women here in the US cause of all the various things discussed on this part of the forum. I monger in thailand and the Phils mostly with future trips always in the works The other day while getting my car repaired I was in the waiting room and a show called divorce court was on. In this case it was a dispute between a women that was married NINE TIMES. WOW 9 times are you kidding me? Now this women had a teenage girl who had to grow up in a home with men coming in and out of it like a Brothel. The Judge was a female of course and guess what. The whole show the women got to bash the guy accusing him of all sorts of things Like cheating, abusing her child, borrowing money from her kids savings account to buy a truck and over all being a lazy bum without a Job. During the very brief time He was allowed to speak (I say it was 2 minutes for him and 25 minutes for her)He produced payroll stubs that had proven he had been working for the last 5 years, but just recently got layed off Hotel room purchases on there joint CC account that he never recalled going to. Said he didn't know she was married 8 times before him.(THIS was his 2nd marriage) and overall gave the impression he was trying very hard to help out her kid with some disiplinary rules (CURFEWS and the Like)that her mother never got around to inforcing ect ect. Well anyways The women continued to bash this guy merciless till finally at the end the Judge orderd him to pay her for the money she borrowed from the kids saveings account to buy him a car to get to work in. What up with that crap LOL. I Thought to myself THANK GOODNESS I done with these american money grubbing women forever and I am now totally commited to booking a trip to Thailand very soon.

Thanks for letting me get this off my mind Its and SEE you in Pattaya guys.

I happened to be reading somewhere that the president is not by nature a reader....he basically tends to rely on those around him to become informed on issues, and then while they are making their cases to him, he instinctually judges on their level of CONFIDENCE AND SELF ASSUREDNESS how correct the information and opinions that they are feeding him are, and acts accordingly. Right off the bat, I can see one major problem with this tactic......there are two major groups of people who just REEK of confidence and self asurance-IDIOTS (who lack the capacity to entertain the possibility that their take on a situation may be incorrect, or realize that other points of view may have validity) and FANATICS (frequently one in the same, but more prone towards choosing to dismiss information not in tune with their worldview).

Moving back on topic a bit, there are a tremendous number of romance novels sold in the US....the genre is huge. Per the Romance Writers of America website ([url]www.rwanational.com[/url]): "More than 2,000 romance titles are released every year, and the genre generates more than half (55%) of all paperback fiction sales in America." That's a pretty big piece of the pie. There's got to be a reason for that.......asserted by an author "we have over 50 million readers and romance novels are 35.6% of all popular fiction sold in North America (more stats. available at [url]http://www.rwanational.org/statistics.stm[/url])." Per [url]http://www.storyforu.com/stats.htm[/url], 93 % of romance novels are read by women (presumably the rest are gay men:) ). That this market exists, makes a statement about our women;

The following is an examination of themes prevalent in those novels ([url]http://thediagram.com/2_5/romancethemes.html[/url]):

"Two basic elements comprise every romance novel: a central love story and an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending.

* A Central Love Story—In a romance, the main plot concerns two people falling in love and struggling to make the relationship work. The conflict in the book centers on the love story. The climax in the book resolves the love story. A writer is welcome to as many subplots as she likes as long as the relationship conflict is the main story.
* An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending—Romance novels end in a way that makes the reader feel good. Romance novels are based on the idea of an innate emotional justice—the notion that good people in the world are rewarded and evil people are punished. In a romance, the lovers who risk and struggle for each other and their relationship are rewarded with emotional justice and unconditional love.

Once the central love story and optimistic-ending criteria are met, a romance novel can be set anywhere and involve any number of plot elements. These settings and distinctions of plot create specific sub-genres within romance fiction."

It can be reasonably inferred from the above stated, that what our women WANT (and probably lie in bed fantasizing about) is a "struggle with a happy ending". This assertion goes a LONG way towards explaining AW behavior. Let me put it this way....in entering into a relationship with a 'boring nice guy', like say myself, there aren't so many obstacles that must be overcome, like dealing with my violent and abusive nature (got a temper, but generally keep it under control-realize that being driven by emotion is for losers), my substance abuse problems (never big in the drugs, and can't take the hangovers anymore), financial chaos (at present I don't make a lot of money, but habitually stay employed, and live comfortably), and having to fend off innumerable competing females to win my love (while not completely socially inept, and not too unpleasant to look at, I am far from the pretty boy or smooth talker that would cause masses of young AW to swoon).........unfortunately, real life isn't like romantic fiction with that cad safely tamed by the love of a good woman...............

To be fair, the same books sell very well internationally, from Scandanavia to Japan, which tends to indicate that ALL women want these things. The difference however is the underlying cultural message that has been broadcast to women in this country that they can have any and all things that they desire simply by virtue of owning a vagina. I can't help but think that women in Eastern Europe, South America, and the poorer countries of Asia are just a bit more realistic.

B9k

I wonder what all these BUSH BASHERS will do with themselves in 2 1/2yrs when he is no longer the president. The guy can't win.

RN, since you asked...."what is your opinion on WOMEN who crave variety?"

It's the same thing as for the men who crave variety. At some primal level, women want to get the best DNA for their offspring.

This often adds up to the following:
1. Screw around with whoever you fancy while you're young. Then "settle down" with a nice guy who will stick around to support you. You get the alpha male DNA for your first children. Nice guy gets the reward of sex in return for taking care of them.

2. Settle down first, then screw around secretly. This way the woman is assured of support for her offspring without being limited in the variety of genetic contributors. It happens quite a bit too. We've covered this ground extensively several months ago. Stats indicate that btw. 2 and 10% of guys have children that, unknown to them, were fathered by someone else.

So, women seeking variety fits in with my theory quite well..... and is no surprise at all. This theory goes a long way towards explaining the so-called Badboy phenomenon.

To answer your other question " Would you be satisfied in a relationship where you BOTH indulged in extra-marital sex?" the answer is YES, with two provisions. First, we both follow the strictest precautions regarding safe-sex with any extramarital activity. Second, Don't go having kids with (or by) anyone else. That would be a fair deal. I have my fun and she has hers.

I think it would be nice if guys could go out and enjoy the variety that most of us crave. I also think that if more women would be honest with themselves and do the same thing, everybody could get laid a whole lot more often.

In fact, there was one time when I found out that a girlfriend(long-term) had been with another guy while we were going out. I was pissed off briefly, but chose not to say anything about it. What I DID do was to keep that bit of info in my back pocket. That way if I wanted to have a little fun of my own, she couldn't give me crap for doing the same thing she did.

That's the main problem.... people are selfish in most things and especially so when it comes to sex. Men want to get it on with multiple partners while expecting the woman to be 100% faithful. Women like to sneak around fulfilling their fantasies while trying to maintain a "Nice-girl" image. Fucking isn't what fucks things up.... it's the selfishness and jealousy that goes along with it.

Rock

[QUOTE=Streetlooker]I wonder what all these BUSH BASHERS will do with themselves in 2 1/2yrs when he is no longer the president. The guy can't win.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, we will be feeling the effects of his presidency LOOOONNNNNGGGG after it is over- one US dollar used to buy about 50 Czech Koruna....now it buys 22 (want to live abroad, but get paid or have wealth in dollars-it's now twice as hard)....six years ago, a Euro was about 80% of a dollar, now it is now about 125%. Energy prices have more than doubled , the national debt has skyrocketed (you realize that WE get to pay for that don't you...at least those of us not smart enough to get out), , BILLIONS of dollars have been transferred (through taxation) to the military industrial complex through the war effort, Saudi's and other energy producers (through high energy prices-"Oh my, we seem to have disabled Iraq, a major oil producer-what a coincidence"), and other prick friends of "dubya" through tax cuts......I suppose that it was just an accident how things worked out that way.

Regarding the variety issue, once someone-note gender neutrality- decides to ride on another person's dime, their WANTS get subordinated. If they don't desire to have their wants subordinated, they shouldn't enter into an arangement whereby someone else is subsidizing their lifestyle.

Conversely (yes this is treading on hypocrasy), the breadwinner in my opinion does have a little more lattitude, although they should not do anything that seriously jepordizes their ability to underwite the other parties lifestyle (like produce children with other partners).

b9k

Women who travel for sex: Sun, sea and gigolos

The men are young, gorgeous and up for it. No wonder Western women see a Third World holiday as the gateway to casual sex - sometimes in exchange for cash. But as a new film highlights female sex tourism, Liz Hoggard asks who really pays the price

Published: 09 July 2006
An attractive woman sips a cocktail under a bamboo shade. The sand is dazzlingly white, the sea aquamarine. A handsome young man approaches her and showers her with compliments: she is the most beautiful woman he has ever seen, he says. For the first time in years, she truly believes she is desirable.

But this holiday romance is not all it seems. The woman is white, in her late 50s; the man, black, 18 - and paid for his attentions. The scene - from the controversial new French film, Heading South, which opened this weekend, starring Charlotte Rampling, makes us confront uncomfortable truths about sexuality in a globalised world, and the legacy of colonialism.

In the film, an intelligent, provocative take on sex tourism in the late-1970s, Rampling plays Ellen, an American professor, who spends every summer at a private resort in Haiti, where beautiful, muscled black boys are available to the female clientele, mostly affluent single women in their forties, who despair of finding mates through more conventional means. "More than sex, they are seeking a tenderness that the world is refusing them," the film's director, Laurence Cantet, explains.

Fast-forward 30 years, and the reality of sex tourism is anything but tender. Today beach resorts in developing countries such as Kuta in Bali, Negril in Jamaica and Boca Chica and Sosua in the Dominican Republic have become Third World pick-up spots for women tourists. Tour companies even market package deals as sex holidays for single and unaccompanied women. Forget Shirley Valentine, these women - who range from grandmothers to teens - don't want a long-term relationship. And there's plenty of live flesh on sale.

Take Jamaica, where 17 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line. Hustling on the beach is the only way that some young men can feed themselves and their families. No wonder they choose older women who pay better than younger ones. InNegril, the men can earn $100 (£60) for sex with a female tourist, £90 for oral sex, which Jamaican men usually regard as taboo. Many others are hired as a guide to the island and throw in sexual services, often just for as meal or a place to sleep.

The definition of a sex tourist is an adult who travels in order to have legal consensual sexual relations with another adult, often for the exchange of money or presents. We still assume that a sex tourist will be male - indeed many regard the relationship between beach boy and female tourist as harmless fun. The woman gets guilt-free sex while keeping a firm hold on the purse strings. Where's the harm?

Jane, 67, a divorcee, has spent the past 10 years holidaying in West Africa. She loves the climate and the people - and she especially loves the men. "They are so wonderfully flattering. They make you feel like a real women. I don't mind paying for their drinks and meals if they stay the night." Divorced, with two grown-up sons, she explains, "White men my own age are so set in their ways; they just want another wife."

For others, this is exploitation pure and simple. Even where no money is exchanged, this sort of behaviour destabilises local communities and families. Ignorance and lack of concern about the abject poverty and lack of choice that characterises the men's lives leads the women to romanticise their actions. It is true that women sex tourists are still outnumbered by the legions of men who travel to Thailand and the Philippines for sex with prostitutes. Charities such as Amnesty and Unicef have no official policy on female sex tourism, preferring to focus on protecting trafficked women and children. Chris Beddoe, director of Ecpat UK, the children's rights organisation that campaigns against child sex tourism, believes: "If both adult partners are open and honest about what they're getting out of it, that's one thing. But it's another thing to continue the fantasy when there's a denial of the power that money brings to that relationship that creates a culture of dependency and exploitation.'

Nirpal Dhaliwal, author of the recent novel, Tourism (which satirises older white women turned on by young brown flesh), takes a tougher view. "Women enjoy casual sex and prostitution, too, but with far more hypocrisy. They help themselves to men in the developing world, kidding themselves that it's a 'holiday romance' that has nothing to do with the money they spend. Go to any Jamaican beach and you'll find handsome 'rent-a-dreads', who get by servicing Western women - lots from Britain. I've seen similar things in Goa."

Next month a new play, Sugar Mummies, about the pleasures and perils of sex tourism opens at London's Royal Court Theatre. Set in the Jamaican beach resort of Negril, it centres on a group of British and American women, seeking sun sea, sand ... and uninhibited sex with a handsome stranger. Sexually frank and often very funny, the play doesn't pull its punches. The playwright, Tanika Gupta, travelled to Jamaica to research the subject first-hand, and says she was shocked to find how female tourists objectify the black male body. "A lot of women talk about how 'big' black men are and how they can go all night. It becomes such a myth that even the men now use it. There is this terrible mutual delusion going on. And you do find yourself thinking, 'We're not a million miles from slavery.'" The older female tourists even confided to Gupta that although Jamaica was lovely and laid-back, the Dominican Republic and Cuba were "dirt cheap". "You can go as young as you want in Cuba," one woman boasted.

For all the talk of romance, the language of sex tourism is pretty basic. In Jamaica the men are called "beach boys" or "Rastatutes". The women are called milk bottles by the men - partly because of their ultra-white skin, partly because they are seen as vessels waiting to be filled.

Another myth the play explodes is that sex tourism is only perpetrated by white women. In Jamaica, Gupta met many black American women hiring beach boys. "They might be going back to their roots, or feeling more powerful because they had money, but they were still buying the same services."

In Bali, South-east Asia, Beddoes encountered wealthy Japanese women paying local boys for sex. The boys themselves claimed they found it less degrading because they saw the Japanese women as smaller and more childlike.

Gupta was inspired to write Sugar Mummies after reading the research by UK sociologists, Jacqueline Sanchez Taylor and Julia O'Connell into female sex tourism in the Caribbean. They decided to carry out their own research when they found that the usual analysis of sex tourism does not consider women as buyers of sexual services, because prostitute-users is seen as, by definition, male.

They interviewed 240 women holidaying in Negril, and two similar resorts in the Dominican Republic. Almost a third said they had engaged in sexual relationships with local men. Though 60 per cent admitted to certain "economic elements" to their liaisons, they did not perceive their sexual encounters as a prostitute-client transaction. Instead they insisted they were helping the men, and the local economy, by giving them money and gifts. When asked to describe "boyfriends", most emphasised how for them black Jamaican men possessed bodies of great sexual value. One 42 year-old English woman who travelled at least three times a year to Boca Chica in the Dominican Republic said: "I'm not naïve. I've been around the block. I come for sex - of course the sun, but mostly the sex. I'm not coming to live and set up house with a guy. I just want some fun and good sex."

"Female sex tourism is much more informal," says Sanchez Taylor, a lecturer in sociology at Leeds University. "It takes place in bars. There's no way for women to go into a brothel and say, 'I want a blow job.'

"Women who feel rejected by men in the West for being fatter and older -you know, 35, but they look 40 - find that in Jamaica all this is reversed," says Sanchez Taylor.

"There's a poetic lyricism to the gigolo's chat-up lines," agrees Gupta. "You very quickly understand why the women are buying this. On the first day, this baby aged 18 came to chat me up. At first I thought, this will be good for my play. But then he got a bit fast, so I suggested he move on to some younger women, And he said, 'Me no want the kitten, me want the cat.'"

The problem comes, she says, when the women start believing the men they have hooked up with are in love with them. "They confuse what is actually a financial transaction with real love. If you have low self-esteem, if you've not had much luck, if you're older ... you are likely to be more susceptible," says Gupta.

Some women even marry their boyfriends and take them home to the UK, although few relationships survive the cultural difference. Jamica's most famous holiday romance has recently come crashing down. Female tourism boomed after Terry McMillan's hit novel, How Stella Got Her Groove Back was made into a Hollywood film. The novel, in which Stella, a divorced black woman in her forties, takes a holiday to Jamaica, where she meets and falls in love with Winston, a local man half her age - was a fictionalised account of McMillan's own marriage to Jeremy Plummer, 23 years her junior. This year, McMillan, 53, filed for divorce, claiming that the marriage was based on a "fraud'' because Plummer lied about his sexual orientation and married her only to gain US citizenship. He denies it.

It is a nasty twist that the countries where this sort of tourism is most rife are ex-slave colonies. Many are still dealing with the fallout of colonialism. All the hotels, restaurants, cars and glass-bottomed boats in Negril are owned by Americans. The urban economy doesn't even belong to the local people.

Yet the women who sleep with the beach boys insist they are helping race relations. They flatter themselves they have gone native. "In my play there's a scene where a white woman is taking about how she loves R&B and reggae and what she calls hip and hop," says Gupta.

It is the female tourist who books the flights and determines the length of time she will spend with their boyfriend, as well as making day-to-day decisions when they are together, such as when and where they eat. One 21-year-old migrant from Haiti who had been working in Sosua, told Sanchez Taylor that he even had to "snog" his tourist client despite a bad toothache and a swollen face. If he did not, he would not be able to afford the antibiotics to cure it.

In Sugar Mummies, Gupta deliberately allows herself one relationship that might just work. "I'm not saying anything about mixed race relationships, I'm talking about these specific kinds of sex-tourist relationships where women go out there specifically to have sex. It will probably backfire and a whole load more women will go off to Jamaica."

'Sugar Mummies' opens at the Royal Court, London SW1 on 5 August (020-7565 5000)

[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]

For all the talk of romance, the language of sex tourism is pretty basic. The women are called milk bottles by the men - partly because of their ultra-white skin, partly because they are seen as vessels waiting to be filled.
[/QUOTE]
Did anyone else here, after reading this, feel physically ill? I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm going to be hunched over my toilet for the next few hours dry heaving! Thanks a lot, Astor, lol.

Helping race relations? Helping out the economic situation of a pleasant young man that an older woman fancies? What I find INSULTING is that these broads BELIEVE their own bullshit and get an industrial strength ATTITUDE if you expose it for what it is: engaging in the same behavior for which they bash men about. I guess my BIGGEST issue with AW's (or maybe I should say WESTERNIZED women) is HYPOCRISY.

Anyboby ever watch BRIDEZILLA, my god I hope thats not a real depiction of how aw behave.......every young guy should be made to watch that show, increadable stuff, thats some scary sh!t.

Did you guys know that Paypal, 2Checkout and several other online credit card processing services have stopped doing business with adult content/product vendors? Apparently, money is now being used to enforce morality in America. The day that we move to a cashless society would be the end of freedom; just think about it, if the government or "moral" majority didn't want you to buy condoms or risque items they could pressure the credit card processors to decline purchases of such items.

Eventually, they could cut off payment for travel to certain sex destinations like Thailand unless you could prove the need to go there on business. Sounds crazy? Try paying for adult oriented material with Paypal and you'll see that it's not so far-fetched.

...probably want BFE with multiple positions and multiple orgasms before they let you pay for porn with Paypal....


[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Did you guys know that Paypal, 2Checkout and several other online credit card processing services have stopped doing business with adult content/product vendors? Apparently, money is now being used to enforce morality in America. The day that we move to a cashless society would be the end of freedom; just think about it, if the government or "moral" majority didn't want you to buy condoms or risque items they could pressure the credit card processors to decline purchases of such items.

Eventually, they could cut off payment for travel to certain sex destinations like Thailand unless you could prove the need to go there on business. Sounds crazy? Try paying for adult oriented material with Paypal and you'll see that it's not so far-fetched.[/QUOTE]

An interesting article about female sex tourists:

[url]http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1168172.ece[/url]

Bridezilla is all too real. I used to play music for weddings. The younger they were the worse. They've been planning their wedding since age five, and if every detail is not precisely as they envisioned it, they throw a fit. I've had them micromanage me, calling me every day for the two months leading up to it, even though on the day they probably won't hear one note of my music. On various court tv shows such as People's Court, they sue the dj/caterer/musician/cake maker if something is not absolutely perfect. Not only do they want a refund of what they paid that specific vendor, they want vendor to pay for the ENTIRE wedding, because the whole affair was "ruined".

One Wing Low:

Hmm... there might actually be some good money in servicing those old dusty hags. Perhaps, American young men should reconsider spending tens of thousands of dollars to go to college when they can make a lucrative living servicing dusty rugs who've already cleaned out one or two ex-husbands. All they need is a signed disclaimer to indemnify them against osteoporotic bones that may fracture during multiple position BFE.

Regards,
CM ;)

is kind of interesting. I believe that they are a subsidiary of Ebay, who last time I checked does deal in adult items.....

According to this link, the ban is on "intangible items", including those of a sexual nature.

[url]http://www.boingboing.net/2003/04/30/paypal_to_stop_offer.html[/url]

I could be mistaken, but it sounds like this is a business decision, choosing to not help in the dissemination of intangible items that can be easily copied and "returned" or otherwise have payment denied, as opposed to kowtowing to puritanical biddies and bible fucks.

B9k

ps Regarding being cut off from sex tourism destinations, just remember where there is a will, there is a way....lots of American go to Cuba every year.....at very worst, you could fly to someplace "innocent", and then buy a ticket from there......the credit card companies I believe are all multi national, so i don't think that laws in the US would prohibit buyin a ticket to Singapore from Kyoto or whatever

[QUOTE=Yogin]Bridezilla is all too real. I used to play music for weddings. The younger they were the worse. They've been planning their wedding since age five, and if every detail is not precisely as they envisioned it, they throw a fit. I've had them micromanage me, calling me every day for the two months leading up to it, even though on the day they probably won't hear one note of my music. On various court tv shows such as People's Court, they sue the dj/caterer/musician/cake maker if something is not absolutely perfect. Not only do they want a refund of what they paid that specific vendor, they want vendor to pay for the ENTIRE wedding, because the whole affair was "ruined".[/QUOTE]

I stop doing weddings when my nights at some Hollywood hotspots increased and I would NEVER go back. I hate the micomanaging!

Yeah its real, some hookas are straight crazy and the guys deserve them, because they want to be bossed around. I don't feel sorry for them ONE BIT.

In response to the Independent article on female mongering, I haven’t seen “Heading South”, but it's gotten great reviews. Would a movie about male mongering fall on such sympathetic ears?

I've observed a great deal of female mongering during many visits to Negril. There, I’ve had the great pleasure of witnessing the shock and indignation of numerous young, attractive American twats as they realized that they were either going to have to hunt for free action, settle for undesirables, or open their wallets. The older gals know how to play the game.

Treasure Beach on the south coast exclusively featured female mongering as of my last visit.

women: the best troops around

take all american women who are within five years of menopause. train them for a few weeks, outfit them with automatic weapons, grenades, gas masks, moisturizer with spf15, prozac, hormones, chocolate, and canned tuna - drop them (parachuted, preferably) across the landscape of iraq, and let them do what comes naturally.

think about it. their anger quotient alone, even when doing standard stuff like grocery shopping and paying bills, is formidable enough to make even armed men in turbans tremble.

they've had their children, they would gladly suffer or die to protect them and their future.

they'd like to get away from their husbands, if they haven't left already. and for those of them who are single, the prospect of finding a good man with whom to share life is about as likely as being struck by lightning. they have nothing to lose.

they've survived the water diet, the protein diet, the carbohydrate diet, and the grapefruit diet in gyms and saunas across america and never lost a pound. they can easily survive months in the hostile terrain of iraq with no food at all!

they've spent years tracking down their husbands or lovers in bars, hardware stores, or sporting events...finding bin laden in some cave will be no problem.

uniting all the warring tribes of iraq in a new government? oh, please ... they've planned the seating arrangements for in-laws and extended families at thanksgiving dinners for years ... they understand tribal warfare.

between them, they've divorced enough husbands to know every trick there is for how they hide, launder, or cover up bank accounts and money sources. they know how to find that money and they know how to seize it ... with or without the government's help!

let them go and fight. imagine their terror as they crawl like ants with hot-flashes over their godforsaken terrain.

i'm going to write my congresswoman. you should, too!

Geeshhhhh........what kind of monsters have we created. I saw this post on craigslist and thought one of you guys with alot of $$$$ to throw away might be interested.

Help our daddy cut us off!!! - w4m - 28

If you are a man of enormous wealth, who likes the playboy lingerie type, and are willing to adopt two abandoned playmates then look no further you are in the right place! We had a dad but he went astray, or broke...we're still scratching our heads about that. Anyway we miss him, and wish he would return....but maybe he found some cheaper pets....(damn dogs!) Regardless it is what it is, and we have already been ruined, and can't even fathom a life of mediocrity, so if you are looking to spice up your portfolio, and need a couple of big losses to claim...we can help you with that. We are looking to be your charity! A little about us, two vivascious sexpots, wild, adventurous, and very easy on the eyes. We are looking for the exclusive hugh hefner type, that is used to accomodating large requests without the bat of a lash. If you find yourself counting more money than friends.....we are right up your alley.

We will send pics upon request.

See you soon!

The Babes

AB, I couldn't have said it better myself! That is the PERFECT example of an AW wanting something for NOTHING! I would bet a year's salary that they would express indignation that they could be equated to leeches!

Those are nothing more than a couple of hookers. Extra-high price and maybe really good looking, but still hookers.

Rock

Those two AW vultures are seriously delirious. Their previous sponsor obviously figured out what a raw deal he was getting and fled before he loss the shirt off his back, perhaps he discovered ISG and international mongering. Still, you'd be amazed at the number of guys who actually subsidize these *****s' lifestyle.

Anyway, in a few more years they'll have to get jobs, marry a sucker or work the streets because very few thirty plus American *****s are easy on the eyes.

I vaguely remember seeing several AW's on the tube who would troll for rich suckers to subsidize their lifestyle (even if only temporarily for example, a single date). These bloodsuckers would require the most expensive items on the menu, champagne, nights out on the town in the most exclusive places, etc., and guess what they said the guy's reward would be in return? To be seen with a hot woman. I'm sorry, but even if I were rich NOW, that would seem to me to be a foolish, temporary investment. Any AW with half a brain is gonna KNOW that said babe is with the guy simply 'cos he has boatloads of cash, NOT 'cos he has a vibrant, magnetic personality or Hollywood looks that reel chicks in like a professional at a bass tournament.

CM, as for the AW's approaching the end of their functional shelf-life, there are plenty of suckers out there who are gonna JUMP at the chance to snatch up a less-than-prime morsel tossed out of the pile from the dating/feeding frenzy. I just know that I'm not one of them.

Absolutely the below status women are super tricky and if you go for them thats half the problem.You think there easy and dickless then you realize everyone is thinking the same thing and they have your weakness figured out immediately not to mention you put yourself into a sub par level for future hook ups.I think they get more play and are full of more games than the A list women.
Too be honest Ive done it and I can get off to it but I cant smell the scent of it anymore.I need to be with someone that I want to immerse myself in not only let them suck me off.Once it gets to sex on those levels your not having fun anymore and you need intervention therapy.
The bottom line is women in america and western culture are spoiled and its stems from equal rights that went astray and pussy whipping men from childhood into a certain way of thinking.
Hey guys take advantage in the third world.Id rather have women who are spoiled than discriminated against but what about men? The single straight male gets no respect anymore and is more or less an undesired item....book a plane ticket to where women appreciate you more.

At my job, I supervise some of our company's mall locations...just today I noticed an outrageous number of ugly pregnant women at the mall. I am not saying not-so-hot, a little frumpy women, plain-Jane girls. No. I am talking about women who on a scale of 0 to 100 (0 being a bullfrog, 100 being Shakira) are easily a negative 50. Hideously fat, missing teeth, vulgar, no manners, annoying twangy voices, dressed in clothes three sizes too small, screaming at the other two already obese kids they have in tow....

Obviously, some guys are fucking these toads, doing it bareback, and impregnating them. Have the men here been pussified to such an extent? Have they lost all their pride? This just reinforces the message the AWs are getting that being an ugly vulgar fat cow is OK just because they have a vagina....

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]I vaguely remember seeing several AW's on the tube who would troll for rich suckers to subsidize their lifestyle (even if only temporarily for example, a single date). These bloodsuckers would require the most expensive items on the menu, champagne, nights out on the town in the most exclusive places, etc., and guess what they said the guy's reward would be in return? To be seen with a hot woman. I'm sorry, but even if I were rich NOW, that would seem to me to be a foolish, temporary investment. Any AW with half a brain is gonna KNOW that said babe is with the guy simply 'cos he has boatloads of cash, NOT 'cos he has a vibrant, magnetic personality or Hollywood looks that reel chicks in like a professional at a bass tournament.

CM, as for the AW's approaching the end of their functional shelf-life, there are plenty of suckers out there who are gonna JUMP at the chance to snatch up a less-than-prime morsel tossed out of the pile from the dating/feeding frenzy. I just know that I'm not one of them.[/QUOTE]


I think that Cho posted that....it was his article about "female players" a while back.....it featured some bim having a guy spring for "romantic" spa weekend with is "reward" being allowed to see her in a towel.

B9k

Was in a large department store today and decided to try on a couple of shirts. Big mistake. In front of the mens dressing room was a large disorderly crowd of women, kids, strollers, and assorted men milling around. Got over there and pushed my way through the crowd (womens dressing room is on the other side of the store btw) and entered the dressing area. While I was trying on clothes various women were shouting/yelling directions/instructions to their respective husbands/boyfriends about clothes to the point of entering the room. The attendant had to shut the door.

When I left the room it reminded me of clearing customs in an airport and going past that magic high wall where everyone is in your face with a sign or shouting and trying to get your attention and you gotta push past.

This seems like a common activity because its happened at a couple different stores and one time a woman actually went from stall to stall looking/yelling for her man. Fellas, you need to put your woman in her place and not be so whipped. I'm not even gonna get into the issue of woman shopping in the mens section either.

Now we all know what would happen if a guy was to attempt to enter the womans dressing room.....

[QUOTE=Bart9000]I think that Cho posted that....it was his article about "female players" a while back.....it featured some bim having a guy spring for "romantic" spa weekend with is "reward" being allowed to see her in a towel.

B9k[/QUOTE]

No, it wasn't that, although I DO vaguely remember him mentioning it. It was some sorta Entertainment Tonight kind of story that focused on a facet of the dating trend. The broad was so matter-of-fact about it that I was almost impressed by her soulless professionalism.

This is regarding a post of mine from yesterday or the day before. It was a comment on those two overpriced B*tches looking for a sugar daddy.

I said the following: Those are nothing more than a couple of hookers. Extra-high price and maybe really good looking, but still hookers.


The first thing I want to say is that I don't have anything against hookers. Not at all, not one bit.

What I DO have a problem with is the way so many women out there try and portray themselves. They always try and put a spin on things so they can basically be a prostitute without having to admit that fact. It's just yet another example of hypocrisy.

There's only two things separating hard-core prostitutes from the soft-core ones. The soft-core pros try to maintain an indirect connection between their services and payment for those services. Also, the soft-core pros are never honest enough to admit what they are....... and THAT is what pissed me off about those 2 from AstorBryan's post.

Rock

I really don't care if *****s want to pretend that they're not *****s. However, US *****s often try to fleece guys WITHOUT delivering on the promised or implied services. Terms like: playboy lingerie type; playmates; spice up your porfolio; big losses to claim; and charity all are subtle messages that you should not expect sex in return for all that money they expect you to dish out "without the bat of an eyelash."

Most likely, Sugar Daddy got tired of investing in those two bitches while his cock received no returns. He finally decided to go elsewhere and invest in some stocks that paid him dividends.

Haha,
He got tired of paying good money for a pair of depreciating "assets".

Hey, on a completely unrelated subject....we, as mongers, should try to turn this whole political correctness thing to our own advantage. The way we can do this is to claim that our lifestyle qualifies as an alternative sexual orientation. We need the hunt, the excitement of negotiation, the thrill of the selection and the feeling of empowerment that comes from paying for sex in order to be fully satisfied.

What could we call ourselves? The P4P club....nahh! Wait, I've got it.....

Buy-$exuals! :D

Rock

[QUOTE=Tbird]At my job, I supervise some of our company's mall locations...just today I noticed an outrageous number of ugly pregnant women at the mall. I am not saying not-so-hot, a little frumpy women, plain-Jane girls. No. I am talking about women who on a scale of 0 to 100 (0 being a bullfrog, 100 being Shakira) are easily a negative 50. Hideously fat, missing teeth, vulgar, no manners, annoying twangy voices, dressed in clothes three sizes too small, screaming at the other two already obese kids they have in tow....

Obviously, some guys are fucking these toads, doing it bareback, and impregnating them. Have the men here been pussified to such an extent? Have they lost all their pride? This just reinforces the message the AWs are getting that being an ugly vulgar fat cow is OK just because they have a vagina....[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous, Have you guys lost your mind in mindlessly attacking american women.

Ohh ! I hate american women too and so too the women from my own country.

BUT, downright degrading the women is just plain too ugly and unnecceasry.

Your expression is in very bad taste...Tell me..was there any man or women who was born with the choice of their parents and surroundings.

NO.we are born into our parents, we did not had any choice in selecting our parents, we are born as male or female or to put it as american men and american women.....Do we have a choice when we die or how we die..oh yeah !!..some would argue about suicide but that too is not a choice..it's just happens as it were 'cos of circumstances...'cos we could not say right now, if we ever commit suicide or just die naturally ...the cause of death is not in our hands.

Likewise..Do we have a choice how we are born with a certain face and character. given a choice everyone on this planet earth would love to have godly manner's and looks. Is it ever possible ?

The least we should know is its all mother nature's play. she is incharge of our life..call god in heaven or nature...we are being created by forces in nature and we are at mercy of them. We are born with certain karma and express it when we are born in a perticular environment.

We all agree, Love is far more powerful than any looks, size and weight.

If we ever fell in love, the girl we love may be the most hated by our parents and friends sometimes. ...is their any explantion to that...

The women that you called flumpy, plain jane, bull frong, Hideously fat, missing teeth, vulgar, no manners, annoying twangy voices, dressed in clothes three sizes too small, screaming at the other two already obese kids they have in tow.... etc.....

.......are being loved by men who you do not have your point of view...it is perfectly normal for this world to function without what we think or not..who are we to critisize and catogorise men and women...

We all think that we get surrounded by playboy bunnies all the time..BUT is it possible that we get get rid of all ugly women from this planet earth and seed this world with angel beauties....

Dude...You will feel lot lighter and less frustated...if you take the world as it is......having a point of view is ok..but downright degrading women into the level of animals .......ha !!

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]This is ridiculous, Have you guys lost your mind in mindlessly attacking american women.

Ohh ! I hate american women too and so too the women from my own country.

BUT, downright degrading the women is just plain too ugly and unnecceasry.

Your expression is in very bad taste...Tell me..was there any man or women who was born with the choice of their parents and surroundings.

NO.we are born into our parents, we did not had any choice in selecting our parents, we are born as male or female or to put it as american men and american women.....Do we have a choice when we die or how we die..oh yeah !!..some would argue about suicide but that too is not a choice..it's just happens as it were 'cos of circumstances...'cos we could not say right now, if we ever commit suicide or just die naturally ...the cause of death is not in our hands.

Likewise..Do we have a choice how we are born with a certain face and character. given a choice everyone on this planet earth would love to have godly manner's and looks. Is it ever possible ?

The least we should know is its all mother nature's play. she is incharge of our life..call god in heaven or nature...we are being created by forces in nature and we are at mercy of them. We are born with certain karma and express it when we are born in a perticular environment.

We all agree, Love is far more powerful than any looks, size and weight.

If we ever fell in love, the girl we love may be the most hated by our parents and friends sometimes. ...is their any explantion to that...

The women that you called flumpy, plain jane, bull frong, Hideously fat, missing teeth, vulgar, no manners, annoying twangy voices, dressed in clothes three sizes too small, screaming at the other two already obese kids they have in tow.... etc.....

.......are being loved by men who you do not have your point of view...it is perfectly normal for this world to function without what we think or not..who are we to critisize and catogorise men and women...

We all think that we get surrounded by playboy bunnies all the time..BUT is it possible that we get get rid of all ugly women from this planet earth and seed this world with angel beauties....

Dude...You will feel lot lighter and less frustated...if you take the world as it is......having a point of view is ok..but downright degrading women into the level of animals .......ha !![/QUOTE]

I see you've been drinking alot of that bullsh*t AW Koolaid.

Just checked your post history. Within a couple hours of your American Woman post, you posted in the American Politics section. You blame American politics and the American people - including the women - for 90% of the world's problems. You go on to bash America for the last 200 years.

According to your warm and understanding post of American women, are you saying that American men are responsible for 90% of the world's problems?

If so, you sound ridiculous and can't be taken seriously. Your first line is, " have you guys lost your mind in mindlessly attacking American women?" Your mindless post that also seems contridictory within a few hours of each other make me question where your mind is operating.

BL5,

You said the following:

we are born into our parents, we did not had any choice in selecting our parents

Then you asked:

Do we have a choice how we are born with a certain face and character. given a choice everyone on this planet earth would love to have godly manner's and looks.

Well, to answer the first I would agree with you. No one gets to choose their parents. To answer the second, I will say that part of how we look is genetic.

However, as we get older (past our childhood years) our choices in lifestyle have a great impact on how we look. I can use myself as an example. Thanks to my parents, I'm not the most handsome guy in the world. But, I watch what I eat, exercise regularly, don't drink excessively and don't smoke. The result? Now in my early 40's, I still look pretty good, and have lot's of energy for mongering adventures.

I've watched young girls go from early teens through to their 20's and on into their 30's. Lot's of these girls were stunningly beautiful at the age of 14 or 15....... only to run to fat by the time they turned 20. By the age of 30, smoking, alcohol, childbirth, lack of exercise and rampant weight gain had turned some of them into the unattractive creatues described by Tbird.

Could they have turned out otherwise? Maybe not, but probably they could have kept their looks a lot longer and a lot better than they did. Remember, we're just talking about looks too..... other things like manners, dress and attitude are completely under a woman's control.

Rock

I think you guys may be missing the point a little bit. BL5 was pointing out that whether YOU find them attractive or not, those ugly, fat, nasty women are (obviously, coz they keep getting pregnant) LOVED by their men - just as there are a whole lot of fat, old, balding men out there being LOVED by their women.

You can't just assume that the husbands of these women are 'pussy-whipped' or that they were bullied/manipulated/conned into marrying them. Maybe these guys looked past the fat ass and whiny voice and saw a beautiful person inside? Maybe she used to be a sexy woman but has 'let herself go' since marrying, but he doesn't care coz she's a great wife and mother? Or maybe she's just a total fox in bed!

Remember: Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. :)

it could be that said husband doesn't see a way out and HAS to see wifey as a fox in order to see the best of a hopeless, bad situation. Yeah there are "Fatty chasers" and "bald-seeking" babes, so that would prove your point of the "eye of the beholder". If BL5 WANTS to find happiness in the arms of a greasy, ever widening, entitlement-seeking harpy who thinks that the sole purpose of HIS existence is to kowtow to HER, then let him be. Who are WE to intervene with our views on behalf of a MASOCHIST who has found his "happy niche"? I know what I like, and it ain't a demanding, slovenly "Queen" who feels comfy giving orders like a potentate, while not expecting to reciprocate in the least...

I've been reading the AW forum for many years now. The vast majority of guys have expressed nothing but disdain, disrespect and contempt for AW. As an American guy who has met women on every continent except Antarctica and Australia (OK, RN, you've got me there), all I can say is that AW have EARNED their well deserved reputation. They are fat, greedy, obnoxious, rude, narcissistic and seem to be hell bent on looking like men. Honestly, I look at them at times and cannot ascertain what sex they are. Women from Paris, Prague, etc wouldn't dare come out in public looking like the majority of AW.

Tbird is right on in his views and assessment of AW. As many American guys know, if an AW happens to look nice and is fit, she will be atacked by other AW and referred to as "Barbie" and a type of sell-out to the "sisterhood." OK, I'm done. Sorry.

Paddy

If you guys really want to incur the wrath of AW and provoke them WITHOUT exception, just tell them that you go overseas to meet Czech, Russian, Argentine, Dutch women, etc. Man, they almost have a seizure. They are sooo threatened it's almost comical. AW women have had a monopoly on sex and realtionships in our culture for a long, long time and they don't want competition of any kind. Hey, let's face it. AW have had a good thing going for a long time and they don't want to give it up.

Paddy

Rock,

Dude, Agreed that 50 percent or more of our looks could be controlled and well maintained.

BUT, what if a women decides not to :). Is there any constitutional amendment in america that says, all women should be like play boy bunnies else they would be degraded to the level of animals.

Just Imagine the state of muslim women around the world, many of them are very beautiful but unfortunately, they aren't allowed to show their beauty, all thorugh life they are cursed in "black burkha" by the male chauvanist of their soceity.

Are we any different, thank god we are still a democracy and freedom of expreesion is still relevant....If given a chance like the muslim nation....Men as we are power mongers...and going by the tone here..we would very well pass a law banning all frumpy, ugly women to be in burkha for ever.

On a different note, many would agree here that we always got a better service in hospitals, banks, hotels, institutions, front desk etc from women who are fat, uglier and frumpy compared to curvy and new age women.

They have better customer service and manners than our usual babe's in office, 'cos not many guys are after them and they tend to expect the world as it is and behave in a balenced way..on the other hand..the playboy bunny types have this attitude and hang over as if they just arrived from angelic planet :)


Rubber Nursey,

Yeah..I agree...LOVE is actually in a different plane totally irrespective of any looks and charecter.

When I was in my college, Our family friends used to visit our house, and looking at the wife's of some of them, made me think of uncle's as soo low, brain less, how can he get this deal etc etc..BUT as I left college, I had a
totally different view on relationships...now as I get older..I understand....what were the circumstances that led to the marriage.....It isn't always Looks..BUT most of the time compatibility.

JAK,

Even If I blame American people and American policies for the world problems...I do not wish to have the licence to kill If some one disagrees with me....I believe in Live and Let Live and also I do not believe in degrading women to the level of animal in which ever country they are born to...

I know that you are in India, and although you have similar problems with the local women, you don't understand the situation here. Women in the US effectively have many more rights and privleges than do men, and take great glee in holding them over our heads. Hence the frustration on this forum.

Please understand that being foreign, you don't have a grasp on the actual situation here. I assure you that no one could in the slightest way impede these 300 pound whales from doing anything that they want. Even guys who visit or live here for a time, don't get the full picture because they are to some degree (varies by country of origin) treated deferentially because they are exotic to American Women.

B9k

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]If given a chance like the muslim nation....Men as we are power mongers...and going by the tone here..we would very well pass a law banning all frumpy, ugly women to be in burkha for ever.[/QUOTE]
While not usually given to extremist ideas, I must admit that Born Loser has put forward a good case for the introduction of the burkha as a mandatory item for many AW. We men would be much happier in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness if we didn't have to endure such loud ugly rude creatures. If their husbands find them beautiful then let them gaze upon their hideous faces and bodies in private. The rest of us should be spared the pain of seeing these Gorgons in public.

Bart,

Yes, I'm from India..BUT I come and go to America quite often, for BPO related works very frequently and one of my main Job is to learn american culture and phyche to thrash our third world products into the first world nations :)

You can imagine, How hard work it is to do this the other way around ;) So I try to interact with as many people as possible ....

Trust me, I feel it how AW women treat the guys in America....I'm a victim too not only in America but also in India :(

I have come to a conclusion that due to rapid Globlization...women are acting in the same way more or less any where on the planet...

I have experienced increasing behavior from women here who acts like men ...NOT a cent of feminine quality...

I have come to America to start a new relation having got bruised and battered back home..BUT here too I got the same treatment not from women of the first grade....Im aware that a guy from third world country can only assume to get a women in the class of third or fourth level. I did not expect a fresh meat....YET....I was treated exactly the way I got treated back home....I had lost all my self respect and dignity across the continent :(

With that in mind, I can imagine, How you guys having being born in america gets treated by women folks...Its bad !! really...

AND that is the very reason, Im here in ISG....I love mongering, No commitments and No relations...Just money does the talking....

Having said all that...I felt that post was a total degradation of women as a whole....I have a very good relation with an escort how ever it may be for money..BUT I feel good when I go to her and she is ugly......Folks..For Lessar mortal...Man needs a Women...thats why this ISG is still around, inspite of how women and men treat each other....BUT we still need each other !!

Chocha Monger,

Great Idea...We got to go with the majority..:)

I'm with you, Only if we agree that the first women to ever put burkha on american soil be the great feminine rightist "Oprah" :)

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]While not usually given to extremist ideas, I must admit that Born Loser has put forward a good case for the introduction of the burkha as a mandatory item for many AW. We men would be much happier in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness if we didn't have to endure such loud ugly rude creatures. If their husbands find them beautiful then let them gaze upon their hideous faces and bodies in private. The rest of us should be spared the pain of seeing these Gorgons in public.[/QUOTE]

There is already a US style burkha. It is called a 'mumu'. I have seen many obese AWs wear them. Often they have a matching headscarf.

recently, a hungarian guy who owns a townhouse blew it up with himself in it because his wife who is a dutch jewish woman who lived in new york for 40 years and was assimilated as an aw sued the poor guy for alimony and the courts forced him to sell the $4 million townhouse to pay her off. the townhouse was the home and doctor's office. when you look at the before and after pics of the wife, she does not resemble her former self at all! after waking up next to that gorgon and then having to pay her off with everything you own would drive you to do what he did. also on the howard stern show, aws say that the ***** should get the 4 million at the expense of that poor doctor. they also say that a man should accept a fat ogress for who she is and not how she looks. give me a break, oprah clones! i work my butt off in the gym so i can meet quality women and be with quality women not fat slobs. that is why i love mongering and am on this forum. the way these women are in the us, they should where burka. they can't where anything else because they could not longer fit dresses because they overeat.
also, once an aw lets herself go, everything else goes a downward spiral. she can't reach around herself to groom herself or bathe. she also stinks like feet and she becomes more unkempt. lately, i threw up after seeing the fugliest hippo feet with ugly black and long toenails that couldn't be pedicured, with peeling skin because the weight causes too much pressure on their swollen feet. on the beach, i saw a scene from "big momma's house 2" where martin lawrence was running with the fat woman's suit hundreds of times. i've seen so much cottage cheese that i should have opened a factory.

As someone mentioned before, maybe the guys who hook up with the fat, greasy unkempt AW actually finds her to be a fox in and out of bed. So be it. It's not my job to proselytize another guy in order to make him see that his situation could be better. HOWEVER, if it gets increasingly difficult to elicit the the positives from his honey while she gives less and less reward for his efforts while he GIVES more and more for the same amount of affection or LESS, then an intervention is needed. He should NOT settle for a can of dog food and a plastic cup of grain alcohol, but at the very least, TRY for a tin of Beluga caviar and a bottle of Bollinger's. A similar situation is Odysseus falling madly for the song of the Sirens. They would have ended up getting him killed, but he had the forethought of making his crew subdue him while he listened to their song.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]As someone mentioned before, maybe the guys who hook up with the fat, greasy unkempt AW actually finds her to be a fox in and out of bed. So be it. It's not my job to proselytize another guy in order to make him see that his situation could be better. HOWEVER, if it gets increasingly difficult to elicit the the positives from his honey while she gives less and less reward for his efforts while he GIVES more and more for the same amount of affection or LESS, then an intervention is needed. He should NOT settle for a can of dog food and a plastic cup of grain alcohol, but at the very least, TRY for a tin of Beluga caviar and a bottle of Bollinger's. A similar situation is Odysseus falling madly for the song of the Sirens. They would have ended up getting him killed, but he had the forethought of making his crew subdue him while he listened to their song.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to give you a small insight into who I am as a person...

Personally I don't like overweight women in general. There's several reasons for this, some personal & some sociological.

I'll visit the sociological one first -

There is a running stereotype that Black men only have access to the bottom of the pile with Caucasian American women. Honestly when you look at it, it might be somewhat true. How many good looking brothas do you see with equally attractive white women?

I'd say California is not a good place to base your opinion on. We have fat people too, but our culture puts pressure on people to look good or be an outcast if you don't socially fit in, unless you run around with your "crowd" that doesn't care about outward appearance.

IE: those grungy looking dudes with long unkept hair, long breads, shirt off (unsightly) and many tats (prolly from the Deep South) and those into Rat Rods, Tats and Betty Page and still others with Blue hair, fetishes and still listen to punk and ska.

The Hugarian women I mentioned several post back is "fat", but not in a bad way. She keeps herself up, tans and is quite sexy actually. Sure having sex with her is not like having sex with thinner women, its all about visuals, because the phyiscal is THE SAME. If she's REALLY big, okay I agree that getting good penatration if your not so well endowed can be a problem (I speak from personal experience), but if your knocking it right, the results are the same.

Now for the personal side -

Its when your move into the "public" arena is when things change, at least for me. I don't want to be viewed as "That brotha that dates fat white women because thin ones will have nothing to do with me". That couldn't be further from the truth actually. I have dated several thin women and prolly should have left relationships for very attractive thinner women, but for some reason I didn't and I missed out on opertunties.

I made a choice about 2 years ago to stop "shagging" chubby women, period and outside of the Hurgarian girl, I have keep that promise to myself.

That has actually SLOWLED my sex life down by quite a bit and that is one reason why I looked to P4P and first signed on to the WSG about 2 years ago.

If I can't get what I want through normal means, then maybe I have to look elsewhere and into unconventional areas.

I have also known for a long time that I have better success with European and Canadian women. I'm going to give Canada a break and focus on Europe since I haven't been there before. The contacts I have made have ensured at least a min amount of action, but locks me into uncomfortable sitsuations with my "free time", making P4P vitrually impossible, but honestly that isn't so bad. I actually wanted to do some P4P just to give something back to the board that has given me plenty of information over the years, especially in places where I would have never thought of visiting, like Argentina.

But this mission is more about finding a life-partner, no matter how unpopular that is around here. Okay, so I have to make some compermises as well especially when I try and date in my age bracket. Looks like the only single and childless women I will meet in Europe will be providers and women under 25 generally.

Sinanju -

I totally agree with you. Its like owning a Toyota Camry when you can afford a BMW. Its not the same... They are both cars, but are for totally different types of drivers.

I say if you can't find what you want here, LOOK elsewhere. I don't understand why some American men feel they have to kowtow to the women in America. You don't have too, as was said in the Matrix -

"The problem is choice..."

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney] There is a running stereotype that Black men only have access to the bottom of the pile with Caucasian American women. Honestly when you look at it, it might be somewhat true. How many good looking brothas do you see with equally attractive white women?[/QUOTE]

This is not true......It just so happens that alot of these fat American White women are pretty open about their interest in fucking or dating Black men. Good looking White guys are picky about the types of women they want to meet. So Black guys never willing to let an easy fuck oppportunity pass them by are only too willing to oblige these women.

For the professional Black male with alot of disposable $$$$$, including professional Black Athletes the field is pretty much wide open in terms of finding attractive White American women. I've dated a few of these so called White Amercan "model" types and all have been complete DUD's in the fucking department. They have nice bodies to look at while fucking but are complete DUD's in the sack. I'll take a woman next door type White woman any day over them.

Pleeeeease don't even get me started about the sistas i.e. Black American women because we could be here all day. Most are really fucked up.

I've had my best experiences with East/Western European White women. They wear less makeup, look fit and are really down to earth no matter how good looking they are.

AstorB and DJ4,

There are lot's of white women who will go out with black men. They seem to fall into 2 main categories..... the first and largest(no pun intended) category is Fat/Chubby. They seem to select black men as a means of getting with a more physically attractive guy. It's like Astor said, most good-looking white guys wouldn't consider one of these chubbies.

The second category is a bit more interesting. These women are generally very good looking. I suspect that they consider themselves to be superior physical specimens and that's what they're looking for in a man. Now, I live in Canada, so things might be a bit different up here. But, it's no big deal to see a really fine, fit white girl who dates black men exclusively. It's actually become something of a cliche.

Interestingly enough, the reverse (white guy-black girl) is a fairly rare sight. I'd say the most common inter-racial couples would be a white guyasian girl and the white girl/black guy.

Rock

White women dating black guys is now a fashion statement.You see all these yuppie types like paris hilton hanging out with the russell simmons crowd and now everybody wants in.If I was black Id be playing that card too.
I think blacks are getting used alot in pop culture and again whether they agree or not they are getting used for entertainment purposes to the extent where they hurt each other which alot of the times results in death and violence.Its amos and andy and black face all over again.The difference is that if your bright you can play your cards right and make money out of it.The challenge is to keep your head on straight and get out of it in one piece with a future.

Artisttyp

Rock Dog -

Canada is funny like that. For all the negatives you hear about Canada, I like it! I'd have to live on the BC side though, I can't stand snow... Rain isn't much of an improvement but I can live with it and have been "offered" to relocate to Vancuver more than once.

It is different and mixed couples are NORMAL up there. If you just take out the last 200 years of World History when it involved Anglos, it would be very interesting.

But then again, we reap the benefits of the "Master bangin the cute slave girl" with literly millions of hot looking women the world over.

Astor Bryan -

HA! I won't lite a fire under you.

We've been down that road before... But I agree with you, its not totally true. Some "great" examples out there. I don't include Hedi Klum and Seal however. Both are Europeans, who live here full time. Funny but what seems normal to them (at home) is somewhat out of place here, less so in the liberal western US, but still it doesn't go UN-noticed.


ArtistP, Aston Bryon & Sinanju Master

We're all going to have to have a Summit someday. I don't drink, but dinner is on me as long as its Sizzler, Ruby Tuesday or something. I can't afford 5 star food and still keep my car...lol

(Doing the Cabage Patch) "We goin to Sizzla" "We goin to Sizzla" - Kadeem Hardison from "White Men Can't Jump"

[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]
ArtistP, Aston Bryon & Sinanju Master

We're all going to have to have a Summit someday. I don't drink, but dinner is on me as long as its Sizzler, Ruby Tuesday or something. I can't afford 5 star food and still keep my car...lol

(Doing the Cabage Patch) "We goin to Sizzla" "We goin to Sizzla" - Kadeem Hardison from "White Men Can't Jump"[/QUOTE]

It's oK you don't drink. More shots of Ouzo for ME. Also, I'm not above pizza WITH anchovies.

Free food without any commitment...Im in.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]AstorB and DJ4,

There are lot's of white women who will go out with black men. They seem to fall into 2 main categories..... the first and largest(no pun intended) category is Fat/Chubby. They seem to select black men as a means of getting with a more physically attractive guy. It's like Astor said, most good-looking white guys wouldn't consider one of these chubbies.

The second category is a bit more interesting. These women are generally very good looking. I suspect that they consider themselves to be superior physical specimens and that's what they're looking for in a man. Now, I live in Canada, so things might be a bit different up here. But, it's no big deal to see a really fine, fit white girl who dates black men exclusively. It's actually become something of a cliche.

Interestingly enough, the reverse (white guy-black girl) is a fairly rare sight. I'd say the most common inter-racial couples would be a white guyasian girl and the white girl/black guy.

Rock[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Rock Dog. DJ, Free Food, I'm in Bro.

Here's an ugly old fart who charges $250 per session. She can't get anyone to come and see her so she blames Atlanta hobbyists for the non responses to her ad. I would not even see her free!!! Atlanta mongers have finally woken up and refuse to pay an exorbitant amout for someone so old and fugly. Poor guy was trying to help her out by negotiating a reasonable rate and she insulted him.

Her post.
I have not had any interest from the gentlemen down there outside of the one man (yes I left out the gentle part for a reason) whom seems to think I will negotiate prices based apon his preferences for the styles of art he would wish to practice.
I must say I am disapointed at this due to in the past I have had a much better reception down there. I do not know if I will try to make any other trips down there especialy as I may be moving out to the left coast around the first of next yr (give or take a few months)

Party safe Atlanta it is still a beautiful city.

[url]http://www.georgia4u.com/[/url]

i saw those sagging mammaries and thought she must be from a planet whose gravitational field dwarfs that of earth. what baffles me is that there is some fool out there who will pay good money to be cheated by this sea world escapee. i can understand a longtime prison parolee having an interest in her, but any other human male, hell no!

[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]
Her post.
I have not had any interest from the gentlemen down there......
I must say I am disapointed at this......

[url]http://www.georgia4u.com/[/url][/QUOTE]

WTF ? The nerve of this ***** ! I cant imagine anybody other than desperate crack heads doing her for a free hit of the rock pipe.

[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]This is not true......It just so happens that alot of these fat American White women are pretty open about their interest in fucking or dating Black men. Good looking White guys are picky about the types of women they want to meet. So Black guys never willing to let an easy fuck oppportunity pass them by are only too willing to oblige these women.

For the professional Black male with alot of disposable $$$$$, including professional Black Athletes the field is pretty much wide open in terms of finding attractive White American women. I've dated a few of these so called White Amercan "model" types and all have been complete DUD's in the fucking department. They have nice bodies to look at while fucking but are complete DUD's in the sack. I'll take a woman next door type White woman any day over them.

Pleeeeease don't even get me started about the sistas i.e. Black American women because we could be here all day. Most are really fucked up.

I've had my best experiences with East/Western European White women. They wear less makeup, look fit and are really down to earth no matter how good looking they are.[/QUOTE]


Ive seen a lot of bottom of the pile white women with brothers here in Toronto. What I have noticed is that those brothers are usually bottom of the pile as well. The reason the sea whales date them guys is because, just like the animation team workers at the all inclusive hotels in the Dominican Republic, these guys will screw anything that moves ! Doesnt matter how fat, old or ugly, if it has a pussy, they will fuck it.

I see alot of the career welfare sea whales with some low brow riff raff wannabe thugs. For the less desireable white chics, its about going where you are appreciated.

Now the more sophisticated and educated brother is a lot more selective. I usually see them with the bikini ready attractive type white chic.

Astor,

I checked out that link.... purely from curiosity. Oh man, she seriously wants $250? That's funny. Maybe she used to be better looking 10 or 15 years ago and that's what she was asking back then!

Sylvester, that's pretty much the same thing I've noticed. The sophisticated and educated brother can definitely be more selective...... but that's only if he's lucky enough to be the 6 foot plus, wide-shouldered and handsome type. If you can show me an example of a short/chubby/goofy looking black guy being able to hook up with the attractive women, I'd be fairly surprised. Remember, I make all my statements based on what I've observed over and over again.

Being educated and sophisticated is all well and good, but it's up to the women whether things ever go past first base...... and the vast majority of guys getting past first base are the big strong masculine looking ones.

Rock

I have a theory to explain why things might be the way they are (regarding the previous post).

I think that men and women tend to be a lot more discriminating, picky and generally harder on members of the opposite sex when they are both from the same ethnic/racial background.

Maybe familiarity breeds contempt, maybe we are more slective about facial features, maybe it's something else. However, I've seen girls put up with stuff from men they'd never allow if he was from the same background as them. I've seen guys go ga-ga after the most average looking girl, simply because she was asian. I've asked asian guys if they thought a particular asian girl was pretty... and they'd say no, even if it was a girl I thought was really hot. Then there'd be some white girl that I thought was just ok....and these same asian guys would think that she was beautiful.

I could go on with a lot more examples, but that's my overall theory to explain what I've observed. Comments?

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog] If you can show me an example of a short/chubby/goofy looking black guy being able to hook up with the attractive women, I'd be fairly surprised. Remember, I make all my statements based on what I've observed over and over again. Being educated and sophisticated is all well and good, but it's up to the women whether things ever go past first base...... and the vast majority of guys getting past first base are the big strong masculine looking ones. Rock[/QUOTE]

Rock, there are lots of short/chubby/goofy looking black guys who are hooked up
with attractive women. Have you seen Janet Jackson's boyfriend/SO, he is a short goofy looking gangsta rap artist. Russel Simon looks also goofy check out his ex wife. Dennis Rodman..not sure what to make of him and Karmen Elecktra . Also Heidi Klum a German supermodel married to Seal a black singer and the list goes on. It's all about the $$$$$$$$

I''ll make an exception for Heidi Klum, I think she married Seal out of true love and not for the $$$$$$, after all she's European. European women are not materialistic.

[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]Rock there are lots of short/chubby/goofy looking black guys who are hooked up
with attractive women. Have you seen Janet Jackson's boyfriend/SO, he is a short goofy looking gangsta rap artist. Russel Simon looks also goofy check out his ex wife. Dennis Rodman..not sure what to make of him and Karmen Elecktra . Also Heidi Klum a German supermodel married to Seal a black singer and the list goes on. It's all about the $$$$$$$$[/QUOTE]

Simmons - He had money, she was a young model with no money, cha-ching! He had a fine-arse wife, she came up. Now they are divorced, still friends, but she's now rich for life with her own business. You can't get better than that can you?

Rodman - Stagged, Stagged and Stagged again. Now DR might have banged Carmen and they even dated for a minute. But tends to date, uh interesting guys. B-Real from Cypress Hill is one of her ex's. She just don't date normal dudes...

Klum - Is understandable. Look at Mic Jagger... Like Jerri Hall would even consider him if he worked at Walmart... Seal can sing, he wooo'ed her, that's how he got those panties wet and now she's sprung. One child, another on the way. He must be knockin it out, I know I would...

It just so happens Im friends with a russian lady(who is a knockout) who is married to a succesful black guy that works on wall street etc. I saw her a few days ago by chance while this topic was coming back into play...well she now has a baby from him and has opened up her own medical practice.He on the other hand is wanting to leave wall street to run some kind of educational foundation in africa.She told me she would never just leave her private practice and that she would be ok if he followed his "dream" in africa.
Of course my friend wouldnt give a shit she will have a check coming to her for life a child and her own medical practice.
By the way they met at tango classes and she suggested to me that I try it." There are alot of WOMEN wanting to meet guys there."
Many things are wrong with this story see if you can count the mistakes.Number one why is a brother taking tango lessons lol

Joined a couple of online dating agencies a few weeks ago and was immediately swamped by marketting emails where guys are trying sell everything from condoms to hairbrush to computers. I basically needed to shut down that email address.

Amazing how marketting people will take this route to promote their goods. They know how bad the women situation is in this country. With over 50% outright fat women and the rest having a zillion problems, all a marketting guy needs to do is to put up a fake photo of a hot female and all the men would go on a limb to send their email addresses.

Never again. I am off to Asia for a few months.

[QUOTE=Artisttyp]It just so happens Im friends with a russian lady(who is a knockout) who is married to a succesful black guy that works on wall street etc. I saw her a few days ago by chance while this topic was coming back into play...well she now has a baby from him and has opened up her own medical practice.He on the other hand is wanting to leave wall street to run some kind of educational foundation in africa.She told me she would never just leave her private practice and that she would be ok if he followed his "dream" in africa.
Of course my friend wouldnt give a shit she will have a check coming to her for life a child and her own medical practice.
By the way they met at tango classes and she suggested to me that I try it." There are alot of WOMEN wanting to meet guys there."
Many things are wrong with this story see if you can count the mistakes.Number one why is a brother taking tango lessons lol[/QUOTE]

Actually it kinda novel....

I have heard of brothas and other men taking Salsa lessons for the same reason, to meet single ladies. Tango? Hell why not, it worked didn't it?

[QUOTE=Badboy27]Joined a couple of online dating agencies a few weeks ago and was immediately swamped by marketting emails where guys are trying sell everything from condoms to hairbrush to computers. I basically needed to shut down that email address.

Amazing how marketting people will take this route to promote their goods. They know how bad the women situation is in this country. With over 50% outright fat women and the rest having a zillion problems, all a marketting guy needs to do is to put up a fake photo of a hot female and all the men would go on a limb to send their email addresses.

Never again. I am off to Asia for a few months.[/QUOTE]

I don't know...

People sell Email list all the time, is not unusual...

All the sites I'm on, I don't get false emails.

[QUOTE=Artisttyp]It just so happens Im friends with a russian lady(who is a knockout) who is married to a succesful black guy that works on wall street etc. I saw her a few days ago by chance while this topic was coming back into play...well she now has a baby from him and has opened up her own medical practice.He on the other hand is wanting to leave wall street to run some kind of educational foundation in africa.She told me she would never just leave her private practice and that she would be ok if he followed his "dream" in africa.
Of course my friend wouldnt give a shit she will have a check coming to her for life a child and her own medical practice.
By the way they met at tango classes and she suggested to me that I try it." There are alot of WOMEN wanting to meet guys there."
Many things are wrong with this story see if you can count the mistakes.Number one why is a brother taking tango lessons lol[/QUOTE]

So......Let me get this straight, this guy is going to leave his pretty Russian wife to go run an educational foundation in Africa. Collectively corrupt African leaders have looted more than $700 Billion from their respective treasuries during the past 20 years. This is really a fucked up mentality when you realize that alot of inner city schools in the large cities, and rural parts of TN, NC,MS etc, are in dire straits.

Can someone please explain to me what all those seemly attractive ladies saw in
Flavor Flav......remember his reality show?? Was it the $$$$ or just the fucked up mentality of American women????

I would catch bits and pieces of the show here and there. The show never impressed me. IMHO, it showed a brother making a total ******* of himself....which holly wood loves to do.

[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]Can someone please explain to me what all those seemly attractive ladies saw in
Flavor Flav......remember his reality show?? Was it the $$$$ or just the fucked up mentality of American women????[/QUOTE]


Your answer is Yes...

1. My friend said they havent decided as of yet who goes where.My point was that is should be obvious.You would think a couple thats only been married for three years would like to stay together.Im sure he does but shes hooked up either way so who cares.
Why help africa and not the US? Americans dont do for americans what they would do for other countries.I dont know why its just our policy.I wind up watching my back more in america than I do in third world countries.
I agree africa is a mess with no hope in sight and very few resources to intrest anyone else to help.

2. I saw almost every episode of flavor of love.Hoops was my favorite from day one.Her thighs drove me nuts.Flav is foolish for doing it but Im sure he needed money and he put his tounge down a few throats.There are worse gigs to be had in hollywood.
I thought the funniest part was that they believed it was his mansion.The guy was a mascot for a rap group in the 80's.He probably only got a scrap of the scrap that chuck D got.All those guys got robbed by the labels back then.
All in all it showed you how stupid these women are and they would sell themselves to anyTHING that could offer something.
The reunion show was nothing special.After all that bullshit hoops didnt want flav. I loved public enemy but flav doing reality TV for the man is very un public enemy and ruins the militant appeal.

Astor B,

My theory was about white girls and handsome black men getting together.

Janet Jackson was black, last time I checked..... so my theory doesn't apply to that example.

Russel Simmons... was his ex-wife Kimora Lee or someone else? I don't know so I can't say.

Rodman and Electra.... perfect example of my theory! Wide shouldered pro athlete, stands around 6'7. What more could a pretty white girl ask for? He might be goofy looking but definitely left some "big shoes" for Dave Navarro to fill.

Seal and Heidi Klum, another good example of my theory..... supermodel type goes for well-built black male. Again well over 6 feet in height and very masculine looking. Extra props to Heidi for looking past the facial scars and seeing the man INside.

If there WAS a black guy that was short, goofy looking, or fat...... and he hooked up with a good-looking woman of any other race, it would be a very rare event unless a lot of money (his) was involved. In that case, the prostitution principle takes effect and overrides my theory.

For anybody who's wondering what the Prostitution Principle is......here is my own definition. Most, if not all, women can be induced into doing things they'd never do otherwise, as long as there is a great enough reward for them to do so. Notice that I didn't mention money, or that the reward had to be immediate.... or even directly connected to the action.

This is the principle that helps explain why a goofy looking guy like Jermaine DuPris can get next to Janet Jackson.... and it explains why guys like Russell Simmons and Donald Trump will never go lacking for attractive female company.

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Astor,

I checked out that link.... purely from curiosity. Oh man, she seriously wants $250? That's funny. Maybe she used to be better looking 10 or 15 years ago and that's what she was asking back then!

Sylvester, that's pretty much the same thing I've noticed. The sophisticated and educated brother can definitely be more selective...... but that's only if he's lucky enough to be the 6 foot plus, wide-shouldered and handsome type. If you can show me an example of a short/chubby/goofy looking black guy being able to hook up with the attractive women, I'd be fairly surprised. Remember, I make all my statements based on what I've observed over and over again.

Being educated and sophisticated is all well and good, but it's up to the women whether things ever go past first base...... and the vast majority of guys getting past first base are the big strong masculine looking ones.

Rock[/QUOTE]


My mistake, I forgot to mention that the educated/sophisticated brother does would have to be attractive as well. The short/chubby/goofy black guy would have to be a celeb or have lotsa $$$ to pull in the hot white chics

Would things have gone so well with Seal and Heidi Klum if her Italian tycoon ex-boyfriend Flavio Briatore had not dropped out of site when she became pregnant? From what I recall, Seal met her afterwards when she was carrying the other dudes baby.

Was reading in the New York Post recently about football player Michael Strahan and his big divorce battle with his ex-wife. She wants some ridiculous figure like 30k to 100k a month because her kids are becoming spoiled with the 3 year old accustomed to Fendi and Prada bags.

Quote

Was reading in the New York Post recently about football player Michael Strahan and his big divorce battle with his ex-wife. She wants some ridiculous figure like 30k to 100k a month because her kids are becoming spoiled with the 3 year old accustomed to Fendi and Prada bags.


That guy made the one worst and most common mistake.... he married that b*tch in the first place. Now he's going to be paying for it. Either he pays her alimony every month (which is like welfare for rich b*tches), or he's got to pay the uncounted thousands in lawyers bills.

Someone should do a reality show where these spoiled women get cut off from the money for a few months. It would be entertaining to see them scrambling around trying to take care of themselves for a change.

Rock

ps. Fendi and Prada for a 3 yr old...... what the FUCK is with that anyways? Now AW's are being trained from birth.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Now AW's are being trained from birth.[/QUOTE]
Well, lets face it, the type of behavior AW exhibit is something that they are conditioned for throughout their entire lives, starting from birth. No one is actually born the way AW act. When they first come out of the womb, IMHO, they have the potential to be just as feminine as women anywhere else on the planet. It's their upbringing in American society that causes them to act the way that they do. That's why I've always felt that only so much anger and frustration can be directed towards AW; American society, and even us American MEN are, in many ways, just as responsible for AW behavior as AW themselves.

I guess the same could be said for AM as well; the U.S. may have more pussy-whipped men per capita than any other country in the world. Why is that? We weren't born that way, I can tell ya that...

[QUOTE=Badboy27]Joined a couple of online dating agencies a few weeks ago and was immediately swamped by marketting emails where guys are trying sell everything from condoms to hairbrush to computers. I basically needed to shut down that email address.

Amazing how marketting people will take this route to promote their goods. They know how bad the women situation is in this country. With over 50% outright fat women and the rest having a zillion problems, all a marketting guy needs to do is to put up a fake photo of a hot female and all the men would go on a limb to send their email addresses.

Never again. I am off to Asia for a few months.[/QUOTE]

BB, you joined the wrong agencies. There are loads of agencies that do not sell your information to anybody so you don't get swamped with spam. READ THE FINE PRINT!

[QUOTE=Ezinho]I guess the same could be said for AM as well; the U.S. may have more pussy-whipped men per capita than any other country in the world. Why is that? We weren't born that way, I can tell ya that...[/QUOTE]

You should watch the comedy concert film: "Raw" with Eddie Murphy. He describes a typical guy who hooks up with a woman (in the initial stages of a relationship) and the guy will act like someone who has been on a deserted island for a year and has just been tossed his first morsel of food, acting like it's of gourmet quality. THEN he describes the SAME GUY who now, after a year of banging the same pussy, sees it for what it really is: the same old shit after a year.

They KEY is in NOT acting like it's your first piece after getting out of lockdown.

......but I think it bears repeating. Online dating is a waste of time and money in the US. With all of the pussy starved guys out there, even a plain Jane gets hit on at least a couple times an average day, and none too pretty big girls get more action than you can shake a stick at because guys think they are actually achieveable. Under those conditions, what kind of girl needs to use her computer to get fixed up on dates? Answer: Some combination of the morbidly obese, hideously ugly, out in outer space weird, and bugfuck crazy.....tend to have a few thousand extra miles on them also.

B9k

Here are two PM's I received from one brian maloney. I can't make any sense of his BS tirade. maloney you pri*k, stop sending me PM's. OH and by the way, I don't have any pics anywhere you can access, you lying piece of shit. I could care less about who you've dated. Yea.....you were married to a Black woman for 15 years and she divorced your ass after she found out you were on the down low.


brian maloney
Let the brothers have the skinny white trash

Astor Bryan I have seen pics of you. You are GORGEOUS AND EATABLE. I once sent an e-mail to one member and he got upset. Maybe because I hit a NERVE. I love Black women myself I was married to a Black woman for 15 years. I was shock and surprised myself as I told DJ for the money. About 2 years ago I was in Vancouver and I met up with Miss Jamaica SHE WAS BEAUTIFULL after spending the night with this FANTASY woman I still DREAM of her till this very day. When I finish making LOVE to her FIRST thing in the morning, I like that time best. I wore NO protection and NO protection all night. I said I am sorry I am not big down there in that department like I guess you are use to. She stood up and said, "Look honey lets get one thing straight right now! I dont FUCK BLACK only WHITE. I said if I get you pregnent what would you do. She said we would have a beautifull Molato child. I said sounds good to me. She then told me the brothers are worth shit and irrisponsible dogs. The GOOD brothers that are educated and famous or pro Athletes they want WHITE meat. She then told me that black people descriminate against themselves. I could not believe what I was hearing. She said she is 1/2 white and a light skin Black woman . She told me that dark black never marry light black Fuck I was shock to hear this comming from Miss Jamaica but I believe her because she is light skin black and knows more about this kind of stuff than I do I never knew this kind of shit exsisted.



Why are Black PEOPLE so defencive

Just like the OTHER member ALWAYS on the defencive calling the RACE CARD, Please READ my E-mail again. It was not me that was a racist or prejiduce, it was MISS JAMAICA that was a racist. And I believe her, WHY would she LIE. How can I be prejiduce I slept with her ALL NIGHT LONG. I guess in this case it wasnt becuse I was rich or good looking just the right colour I guess. I live in Canada NOT THE USA. reading back in history canada never believed in slave trading and we are not a racist nation like the USA. The black people that could exscape from slavery came to Canada. OUR Country NEVER had segregation laws like the USA. So I guess thats why Black people in the USA have chips on their shoulders, But they ALWAYS treat Canadians well.

Ezinho, Sinanju,

It's one of those things.... like the chicken or the egg, which came first? Somehow things have evolved over the last few decades to the point where women really do have the upper hand.

I've made many posts to this effect so I won't go on covering the same ground.

You can't honestly go blaming women for everything. I think a lot of this stuff that's going on these days can be traced all the way back to the 60's.... when people started challenging the establishment, and established ideas of how things should be. I can remember how the 70's came next.... with women's liberation. Of course that whole "liberation" part of the phrase seemed to imply that they had been imprisoned or enslaved previously.

Mostly I think they started out just wanting to have the same job opportunties as us. After they got a little bit of success, they just kept going and going.

Now what you have, are millions of women out there who don't really need a guy for anything except to get laid..... and that's only if they aren't bi.

There's always a few nice, normal ones out there who aren't in it for the money or trying to uase their pussies to power trip on us. However, those ones are guaranteed to be in nice stable relationships. That's why we are so down on AW's and western women in general...... because it's the ugly/psycho/gold-digger types that are always available. Those are the ones we keep running into over and over.

There sure are a lot of pussy-whipped guys out there, but that doesn't mean we have to be one of them. Not sure exactly where I'm heading with this post so I'll just summarize and end it here.

1. Women in general are worse than they used to be... also seem to be getting more so as time goes by.

2. Not sure how things got this way, causation is surely multifactorial.

3. As bad as things are, don't make things worse by surrendering your honor for a piece of ass.

Rock

Rock, actually, you (WE) DO need to cover the same ground from time to time in order to keep focused on what the problem is and to educate those who are in the dark without so much as a candle to light the way. Myself, I never said that there is not even ONE good AW in the US, but you can damn sure bet your annual salary several times over that she has been taken by someone else before you can get to her. With the rest, it seems that if you give them some rope, they want to be a cowboy.

Astor, you seem to have attracted a nutcase. I just hope it's not on the same level as Ownaford1994 or JamesD2004 or any of his other aliases.

I've spoken to Brian before. He's a nice guy.....just a bit different in his way of expressing himself.

b9k

Astor,

I tend to agree with Bart. Perhaps, you just misunderstood Brian. I've never had any reason to believe that he's inclined to the alternative lifestyle though he writes in a fairly unique manner. There is no reason to let the matter erupt into a flame war.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Ezinho, Sinanju,

It's one of those things.... like the chicken or the egg, which came first? Somehow things have evolved over the last few decades to the point where women really do have the upper hand.

I've made many posts to this effect so I won't go on covering the same ground.

You can't honestly go blaming women for everything. I think a lot of this stuff that's going on these days can be traced all the way back to the 60's.... when people started challenging the establishment, and established ideas of how things should be. I can remember how the 70's came next.... with women's liberation. Of course that whole "liberation" part of the phrase seemed to imply that they had been imprisoned or enslaved previously.

Mostly I think they started out just wanting to have the same job opportunties as us. After they got a little bit of success, they just kept going and going.

Now what you have, are millions of women out there who don't really need a guy for anything except to get laid..... and that's only if they aren't bi.

There's always a few nice, normal ones out there who aren't in it for the money or trying to uase their pussies to power trip on us. However, those ones are guaranteed to be in nice stable relationships. That's why we are so down on AW's and western women in general...... because it's the ugly/psycho/gold-digger types that are always available. Those are the ones we keep running into over and over.

There sure are a lot of pussy-whipped guys out there, but that doesn't mean we have to be one of them. Not sure exactly where I'm heading with this post so I'll just summarize and end it here.

1. Women in general are worse than they used to be... also seem to be getting more so as time goes by.

2. Not sure how things got this way, causation is surely multifactorial.

3. As bad as things are, don't make things worse by surrendering your honor for a piece of ass.

Rock[/QUOTE]



This kind of goes along with something I'm fond of stating....Rock is essentially saying here that women have thrown out the baby with the bathwater, and I certainly agree. I've made several posts examining some things that modern society has discarded (dowries, arranged marriages, paternal approval of suitors), partially in response to the women's "liberation", and what the detrimental effects have been (girls choosing to give themselves to the suitor who provokes the maximum EMOTIONAL response----which has a high correlation to being undependable, unstable abusive)......now they are really out on a limb with all of them expected to be "independent women", get out there fighting on the front lines to take over the world...when in actuality, most really just want to get knocked up and stay home playing with the kids, while one of those terrible MEN protects them from reality.

I'm in partial agreement with Rock, that some are certainly better than others. However, I have to say, that ALL are at least to some degree corrupted by the influences of our society. Now I'm sure that somewhere out there is a girl who would prove me absolutely wrong by being the exception to my "rule", but I'm not willing to spend my time and money digging through the proverbial haystack to find her, especially when as frequently pointed out on this board, we have other options.


B9k

okay maybe he should look at his writing and i don't get offended often, but he's not allowed to pm me. i made that crystal clear to him...

then again some canadians are genuinely strange.. ay?

bart -

it is a waste to trying dating online women from the us. but not so pointless when you focus on canada and europe. in fact, im just not sure how much "mongering" i'll get done with so much "free" german punai that i have cultivated so far :d

plus my female friend from norway asures of me that i'll have no problems pullin and even the german women say that (they tell me that in an in-direct sort of way)

if all this turns out to be true, "darlin, put mommie on the phone..(pause). "hey marsha, i aint ever comin home!" "have a nice life..."

well, i don't think i can actually live in europe (you never know...) but we'll just have to see how this all turns out.

rock -

its funny, im a hardcore follower of motorsports and i only found out recently that hedi used to date flavio who is the head of renault's formula 1 team. seems some black men don't mind picking up where some guys left off. i was never a "hit it and quit it" kind of guy, so i'll prolly end up doing the same thing, being a father to somebody else's children. of course all the above parties know im childless and are willing to have at least another one or two...

life is good (some ladies invited me on their ski boat which i'll cash-in over the next couple of weeks), just wish i made more money at this magot-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url]-on job i currently have, but im trying to get back into a truck to accelerate my income earning and provide me with more "freedom" when i make my trek over to europe.

That I specifically said online dating is a waste of time "in the US"

[QUOTE=Bart9000]That I specifically said online dating is a waste of time "in the US"[/QUOTE]

I agree online dating of AW is a complete waste of time. You're better off with p4p.

Just a quick line form someone who has been lurking for awhile. If one has some game in New York... I'm sure L.A. and other places for that matter. On a good day one can often meet a lady from overseas who would love to spend some quality time with a nice gent. I'm 51 and in good shape. one of my friends was 21, delightful and from Poland. Recently I have been seeing a lovely 28 year old gal from Trinidad. When you add up the airfare and the hassle. Nothing in this life is free. As the service writer said to me one at the dealership "if it has tits or wheels and is nice it' not cheap".

You guys in the big cities open your eyes. Nothing wrong with a new friend spending a couple of nights a week after a good meal and perhaps a "little help" offered dicretely of course.

Yesterday, near the end of the workday, some coworkers and I were talking about our receptionist. She's a redhead (I got a thing for redheads) and had just 4-5 months ago dumped her live/in bf to whom she was engaged and HAD PLANNED THE WEDDING. NOW, I hear she's ENGAGED AGAIN. This was after she very briefly dated a guy who is friends with my coworkers (led him ON is more like it, since she milked him for several dinners etc) and told him over the phone that she was now engaged. He said: "WHAT? Where did you meet THIS GUY"? Apparently, she met this guy (her new intended-to-be) while she was dating the poor guy she suckered. Now, this broad is either extremely single-minded or just plain NUTS to be engaged THAT QUICKLY after recently dumping someone whom you were gonna live the rest of your life with. I'll keep you apprised, my bretheren.

DJ4Money:

First of all, I agree that online dating outside the US is a goldmine... I really wonder how that got so screwed up in the US. Apparently "myspace" works well in the US though, although I never personally tried since I dont live there. When is your long-awaited Euro-vacation gonna happen? Those poor German girls seem pretty keen for you to show up!

The Heidi Klum story:

The Heidi Klum story is really one of a girl getting passed around... after she got dumped by her former boyfriend, she hooked up with Anthony Kiedis (Red Hot Chili Peppers) for awhile and after he dumped her (he still raves about her, but said he was too immature to stay with one girl.. that's my boy!) she ended up shacking up with chubby aging Italian playboy super stud Flavio Briatore, who is famous for banging literally dozens of top models such as Naomi Campbell etc. Flavio poked her rotten for awhile and got her pregnant, at which point he literally said "I can't see myself pushing around a baby carriage" and unceremoniously dumped her just after their baby girl was born.

I ask myself why Heidi couldnt seem to keep a boyfriend, but if you have ever seen her interviews, she's pretty fucking stupid. Not that one would expect much from a model, but she really is pretty dumb.

Seemingly destined to be a single mom, Heidi was back on the market and lucky enough to meet up with Seal, who has a thing for German models (he used to be with Tatjana Patiz, even hotter than Heidi in my opinion) and very family-oriented... and now she is cranking out little baby seals and reportedly very very happy. Seal also seems to be somewhat of a dream husband, at least from the very positive press he's getting in Germany.

Rock Dog:

There definitely is a lot to the theory that opposite races attract, which may even by genetically motivated. After all, "injecting" new genetic code into the racial bloodline is essential for races to survive over time.

"Yellow Fever" is what they call it when white guys (or black guys for that matter) go crazy for anything Asian. We've all seen non-Asians parading around with the most unattractive Asian chicks, at least from an Asian standpoint. Asians laugh about it and I think anybody who has been to Thailand or whereever has seen it... and probably been guilty of it as well. I know that years ago I banged some real skanks in Pattaya before figuring out which ones were truly pretty and improving my screening process. What was I thinking? I was only looking at their skinny tight bodies and didnt even notice the faces until the next morning.

The same goes for white guys who are into black chicks... they are often attracted to the body and dont even look at the face. And the stereotype of black guys with white chicks most decent-looking white guys wouldnt touch is well-known.

When it comes to banging girls from other races, it seems that the attraction is rooted in factors not entirely determined merely by traditional definitions of attraction.

Personally speaking, I banged a black chick in airborne school in the army that most black guys probably wouldnt have given a second thought too... body was fine but her face could have stopped a runaway train. I felt no shame about it though, at least I got some... :)

By the way, I just got back from the US and was getting a whole different vibe from black girls (I am white). Its well-known that interracial dating/sex is less taboo than before and that white girls with black guys is more common than ever, but what about the other way around? Years ago I didnt often get far with black women but on this recent trip I had black girls giving me some serious flirting action. Didnt have a chance to pursue it as I was otherwise "occupied", but is there more acceptance for white guys among black girls? I also saw a lot of white guy-black girl couples, which was less common even just 10 years ago. Thoughts?

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Yesterday, near the end of the workday, some coworkers and I were talking about our receptionist. She's a redhead (I got a thing for redheads) and had just 4-5 months ago dumped her live/in bf to whom she was engaged and HAD PLANNED THE WEDDING. NOW, I hear she's ENGAGED AGAIN. This was after she very briefly dated a guy who is friends with my coworkers (led him ON is more like it, since she milked him for several dinners etc) and told him over the phone that she was now engaged. He said: "WHAT? Where did you meet THIS GUY"? Apparently, she met this guy (her new intended-to-be) while she was dating the poor guy she suckered. Now, this broad is either extremely single-minded or just plain NUTS to be engaged THAT QUICKLY after recently dumping someone whom you were gonna live the rest of your life with. I'll keep you apprised, my bretheren.[/QUOTE]



I've spoken about this before. It's very very common for girls to keep one or two guys on the back burner.....while she's saying that you are the the one and only she very well could have a couple backups on the side that she keeps around with everything from flirting to full blown fucking.

I'm on a girl's back burner right now....believe if her live in boyfriend fizzles out on her, she'll be wanting onto my dance card. I've actually been in the past called up from the minors, and then sent back down two or three days later after a reconcilliation.

B9k

PS I did want to point out to everyone that the preceding is Dr. Skank's 1000th post. While several of the Domino's and Nibu Raphael types have gotten to that level and a ways beyond, it is a rare individual who has provided good information, great photo's and solid opinion commentary to that degree.

I came to work this morning and saw a strange car in the parking lot. Apparently, Red and her newly betrothed are driving EACH OTHER'S cars. This is an interesting turn of events and I'm definitely gonna keep my ear to the ground. I just hope the poor schmoe knows what he's getting into.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]DJ4Money:

First of all, I agree that online dating outside the US is a goldmine... I really wonder how that got so screwed up in the US. Apparently "myspace" works well in the US though, although I never personally tried since I dont live there. When is your long-awaited Euro-vacation gonna happen? Those poor German girls seem pretty keen for you to show up!

The Heidi Klum story:

The Heidi Klum story is really one of a girl getting passed around... after she got dumped by her former boyfriend, she hooked up with Anthony Kiedis (Red Hot Chili Peppers) for awhile and after he dumped her (he still raves about her, but said he was too immature to stay with one girl.. that's my boy!) she ended up shacking up with chubby aging Italian playboy super stud Flavio Briatore, who is famous for banging literally dozens of top models such as Naomi Campbell etc. Flavio poked her rotten for awhile and got her pregnant, at which point he literally said "I can't see myself pushing around a baby carriage" and unceremoniously dumped her just after their baby girl was born.

I ask myself why Heidi couldnt seem to keep a boyfriend, but if you have ever seen her interviews, she's pretty fucking stupid. Not that one would expect much from a model, but she really is pretty dumb.

Seemingly destined to be a single mom, Heidi was back on the market and lucky enough to meet up with Seal, who has a thing for German models (he used to be with Tatjana Patiz, even hotter than Heidi in my opinion) and very family-oriented... and now she is cranking out little baby seals and reportedly very very happy. Seal also seems to be somewhat of a dream husband, at least from the very positive press he's getting in Germany.

Rock Dog:

There definitely is a lot to the theory that opposite races attract, which may even by genetically motivated. After all, "injecting" new genetic code into the racial bloodline is essential for races to survive over time.

"Yellow Fever" is what they call it when white guys (or black guys for that matter) go crazy for anything Asian. We've all seen non-Asians parading around with the most unattractive Asian chicks, at least from an Asian standpoint. Asians laugh about it and I think anybody who has been to Thailand or whereever has seen it... and probably been guilty of it as well. I know that years ago I banged some real skanks in Pattaya before figuring out which ones were truly pretty and improving my screening process. What was I thinking? I was only looking at their skinny tight bodies and didnt even notice the faces until the next morning.

The same goes for white guys who are into black chicks... they are often attracted to the body and dont even look at the face. And the stereotype of black guys with white chicks most decent-looking white guys wouldnt touch is well-known.

When it comes to banging girls from other races, it seems that the attraction is rooted in factors not entirely determined merely by traditional definitions of attraction.

Personally speaking, I banged a black chick in airborne school in the army that most black guys probably wouldnt have given a second thought too... body was fine but her face could have stopped a runaway train. I felt no shame about it though, at least I got some... :)

By the way, I just got back from the US and was getting a whole different vibe from black girls (I am white). Its well-known that interracial dating/sex is less taboo than before and that white girls with black guys is more common than ever, but what about the other way around? Years ago I didnt often get far with black women but on this recent trip I had black girls giving me some serious flirting action. Didnt have a chance to pursue it as I was otherwise "occupied", but is there more acceptance for white guys among black girls? I also saw a lot of white guy-black girl couples, which was less common even just 10 years ago. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I echo Bart, congrats on your 1,000th post -

This is why YOU are the "Good" Doctor...

I'll start with you last comment:

I think its becoming more common place and I say its about frickin time! Now they can leave us brothas that rather not date them alone.... My mother was a forerunner to this as one of her BF's while I was growing up was a white fellow. We were about this " " close to have an intergated family as the children from his previous relationship were white. Just for the sake of interest, I would have liked to see that happen.... He was a very nice guy.

Once all the races are fully mixed, they'll find something else wrong with you...

I personally don't have a problem with it. You should be able to date whomever you want.

My trip -

Ha! I just talked to the travel agent this morning... His price was about $75 higher than I found online.

My main problem now is narrowing down the field or finding out a way to spend time with each without them getting curious to where I'm going, etc, etc.

As it stands there 4 interested parties -

One I have been talking too since March and the other three I picked up in May.

The lady from Heillbronn is REALLY on it. I think her effort has pushed her up to first visited status. Second place belongs to blonde from Asnbach, Third to the brunette from Wurzberg and bring up the rear is the first one I came into contact with, from Monchengladbach.

I also have a another lady friend I would like to visit up in Norway.

I'm really trying to get a gauge on Norway. My friend has a rather "manly" look to her and from some pictures I have seen of other female Norwegians, that seems to be the case more often than not. Maybe its the lingering Viking effect or something... No offence to any Norwegians on the board, I know there some hot women in your country I just haven't found an acturate source of photographic "proof" yet. If you can point me in the right direction, PLEASE do so, as she has told me I would have NO PROBLEM pulling in Bergen where she lives and YES I will see the Fjords...

Skank, I will make my way to the EE before anything serious happens tho, because the Hungrian told me it would be a good idea for me to go to some places in the EE, not all and I have heard some postive feedback from former GI's and other "brothas" that find themselves overseas for an extended amount of time and have spent time in some areas.

This trip promises to be the best thing I have done so far in life and Im treating it as such...

PM me.....I can help you with your travel arangements. I always have an eye on fares.

Travel agents like most stockbrokers, realtors, etc are useless middlemen. I had one quote me a $1500 airline ticket to Prague...On my own I found a deal including the flight and 4 days in a decent hotel for like $1000.

B9k

I've been tossing the idea around with some friends of mine, wanted to get seasoned travelers opinions.

There are ways around certian laws in the United States, I've personally become a wizard at such things. I was wondering if there would be a market for an american fkk stocked with women from around the world? Prices would be insanely high, but would be a much easier trip. Is there a market for such a thing?

Huitzilopoch,

Lovely idea and I admire your courage.

Market: yes, a very big one indeed.

HOWEVER: think media, think publicity, bible-bashers, naming & shaming tactics…. Think conservative, closed minded, hypocritical government… Conclusion: probable failure, unless it was in Texas and the right people were very well bribed… Even then, I would bet that being in Arbusto heartland it would fail. The average Jo is just too scared...


Regards, Havanaman

Actually, if we made it public I think it would only be legal in nevada. Even then, it would be impossible to maintain; nevada is a desert and profit margins would dictate a low profitability rate given the competition.

I was thinking strict secrecy, like the gambling houses always do... I mean, im sure a lot of us have been to a place that was basically a casino run in absolute secrecy, right? You got there by word of mouth. Same goes here.

Maybe buy a place in an area that is needed for business(Los Angeles, or Miami, maybe Houston) put up a huge ass wall, make it a private resort type deal. Bring in 20 girls from around the world, have them live there, and charge admission for the guests who have a hard as hell pre-screening. Drive guests in a limo to and from the resort, all that jaz.

In the escort industry we had really tough pre-screening, but we also had an alibi system; If a client wants to take a girl out for the weekend, we schedule it with him, then send him a letter in the mail for a convention that goes along with his profession. He takes the convention, and when he gets to his hotel, he calls us and gives us his number. We then have a pre-arranged 1800 number for him to give his wife, when she calls it shows us his access code, we answer as the clerk for the hotel, and say he's sleeping please leave a message. We call him at his hotel, then do a three-way for him to talk to his wife.

This was of course only for clients who shelled out 10k a pop, but hey, it's a nice feature.. With VOIP and stuff now a days, i've been dying to test my skills. We could have a whole network setup for such things.

Anyhow, thank's for the comment. I would never make it publicly known, but it is an interesting take. I know la cops are easy as hell to bribe, so if i ever needed a place to bribe them at it would be here. Funny story, i was at a friends jack shack in alhambra. basic asian massage parlor in a house, 5 girls, all FOB's. I am playing chess with the owner, and of course had to partake the newest japanese girl he got in. I get finished, and go to get a pastrami from the HAT(Good food place.) Some cops come up, and we start talking. Cop's order their food, I order mine, so we both go sit down. They look at my car, look at me, and say "How was she?"
"Excuse me?"
"You obviously don't belong in this area, in that car, with those color eyes and that skin tone. How was she?"
"Sir, I am sicilian/russian. My eyes and skin tone have absolutely nothing to do with where i choose to eat at."
"Look, here are around 15 asian ***** houses here. We know most of them, we get comp's. I just want to know how the new talent is, don't get all defensive."

Cops partner, a japanese american named kim, was getting really pissed at the white cop for saying that, but it made me feel a hell of a lot better, lol. Come to find out from my friend there, they have to pay $10 per every client that comes in a day to a special fund that is collected by a certain cop every week. They do that so they don't get raided, but he said they have to give a place to be raided once every 3-6 months so they set up a patsy house, run it real public like for a while, then have the cops go bust it. I love los angeles.

We all know that sex is considered to be a very bad and nasty thing in this country though exceptions are made when significant amounts of money are involved; these exceptions involve things like porn and psuedoporn used in marketing by corporations.

However, the latest breastfeeding outrage illustrates the widespread hypocrisy concerning any kind of skin exposure that is not part of the generally accepted canned commercialized sexuality that we are fed everyday. What is even more astounding is how a natural maternal function has been sexualized by the culture. The main biological function of the mammaries is to undergo lactation to feed the young, not to make money at strip clubs or to sucker men into marriage though that well may be a secondary function. Read the article at the following link.
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/od_afp/afplifestyleussocialbreastfeeding[/url]

I love your idea, but in addition to the CONSERVATIVE whackos mentioned by Havanaman, you would also have to worry about the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth ultra-left wing feninazis who would "shine a light" on the oppression of the women who would be in your employ. Also, a combination of the two groups would more than likely post the photos or videos of the guys patronizing the place for the general public to see. In my opinion, as far sex is concerned, this country is like a village of ignorant fucks who gather with their pitchforks and torches in order to storm the castle of those who are not like THEM. Also, can you imagine if your establishment got off the ground and the media network of Pat Robertson decided to latch its fangs into your little gold mine? That would be the kerosene he would need to keep his fire and brimstone going.

[QUOTE=Marak5]hey guys

just wanted to drop in and say hi. no trips for me anytime soon. maybe in a couple more months.

djfourmoney - thanks for some help you given me but please just take this damn trip already. youve been planning this damn thing for like 8 months now. just take the plunge.

keep well guys.[/QUOTE]

As with anything its a MONEY issue. I will buy my first of at least 2 tickets (one to get there, one once inside Europe) at the end of the month come heim or high water.

Its a done deal.

Details to follow as my it becomes closer to me actually leaving... Alot still up in the air.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]I love your idea, but in addition to the CONSERVATIVE whackos mentioned by Havanaman, you would also have to worry about the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth ultra-left wing feninazis who would "shine a light" on the oppression of the women who would be in your employ. Also, a combination of the two groups would more than likely post the photos or videos of the guys patronizing the place for the general public to see. In my opinion, as far sex is concerned, this country is like a village of ignorant fucks who gather with their pitchforks and torches in order to storm the castle of those who are not like THEM. Also, can you imagine if your establishment got off the ground and the media network of Pat Robertson decided to latch its fangs into your little gold mine? That would be the kerosene he would need to keep his fire and brimstone going.[/QUOTE]

It can be done. All I can say is, it can't be all high and mighty. It has to be down, dirty and ghetto.

Keep it street and while you might not have the polished imagine you want to project in the media, your clients will know the truth.

I found out this broad was already married once when she was 18. She's 27 NOW and the wedding is planned for November 11.

The USA already has there form of FKKs. There called strip clubs. Now it seems that a lot of american men are content with spending huge amounts of money on no touch, semi nude lap dances at strip clubs in most cities around the country. Millions of male patrons crowd these places every night and all seem rather content. I mean these places are makeing millions and they don't offer anything but a tease. I don't get it? Why the hell do these guys spend 100s if not 1000s of dollars on a tease. The american male needs to wake up and stop being content with lap dances from girl who care nothing for you and demand that places excist for them to get sexual relief Like our european and asian brothers. Its not going to happen though But I don;t give into the lap dance fund.

Many of the guys that have you scratching your head don't know any better. They don't know that on other shores exists MUCH BETTER pickings and that they don't have to be slaves to the hypocrisy of American Women or to put up with the stranglehold on the pussy supply that they have created and enjoy to our detriment. Welcome aboard!

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Many of the guys that have you scratching your head don't know any better. They don't know that on other shores exists MUCH BETTER pickings and that they don't have to be slaves to the hypocrisy of American Women or to put up with the stranglehold on the pussy supply that they have created and enjoy to our detriment. Welcome aboard![/QUOTE]

What's even better is these guys also think you being a monger, sex tourist, international traveler that bangs overseas honeys, et all; that your desperate and have "no game".

I gave up on US strip clubs frankly when the talent level started to go south. Since these are often breeding grounds for up and coming porn vid talent, the influx of women that move to Cali in hopes of directly going to porn and bypassing the "dancer" stage of their careers has had an effect on the quality of woman being employed by such establishments.

Last time I went several years ago, the talent was horrible compared to the late 90's IMHO. I could pick up these girls at the local mall if they didn't have their noses so far up in the air and that's when it all hit me that even the average looking women demand "princess" treatment from men and often get it...

An American FKK could work, somebody just has to have the nutz to do it.

Back in early to mid '98, I was doing a LOT of research into the possibility of actually opening a strip club in my metropolitan area, but the close-minded Bible-thumping peasantry was a HUGE factor that entered into the equation. The god-damned MAYOR even killed the possibility of an already established New York strip club from setting roots down here, 'cos he HEARD RUMOR of mob ties. I'm certain he didn't even actually look into it, but that was enough to bring down the guillotine on the idea. To add to THAT, there are a couple of popular strip clubs on a very popular (an actually upscale and civil) street that have had their renewal requests denied for their leases. I can hear the marching of the boots of the feminazis even as we speak... To pull it off, one would have to have a LOT of luck and a LOT of lawyers willing to go to bat for you. Battling the forces of the Anti-Sex League (a little "1984" reference for those of you who have taken the time to read said book) would be taxing upon even the most SUCCESSFUL enterprise. What citizen sitting on his ass at home is gonna deny a little girl crying (on cue) about the "evil" that such an establishment could bring upon their neighborhood? I saw such a telecast a few years ago and the acting by this little faker was hilarious! That's how LOW the Religious WRONG is willing to go. Instead of arguing the point on merit, they will circumvent that and use their kids to GUILT you into denying said enterprise. Don't get me wrong; if such a venture succeeded, I'd be a regular customer. However, I enjoy my anonymity and I don't want it compromised by some fucker who wants to bash a bible over my head and tell me I'm wrong and he's RIGHT.

[QUOTE=Streetlooker] I mean these places are makeing millions and they don't offer anything but a tease. I don't get it? Why the hell do these guys spend 100s if not 1000s of dollars on a tease. The american male needs to wake up and stop being content with lap dances from girl who care nothing for you and demand that places excist for them to get sexual relief[/QUOTE]

I agree.......I just can't understand the American fascination over Strip Clubs. These strippers often call the guys who frequent these clubs walking ATM machines i.e suckers. It's all one big tease and in the end you end up going home with nothing to show except a much lighter wallet.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Back in early to mid '98, I was doing a LOT of research into the possibility of actually opening a strip club in my metropolitan area, but the close-minded Bible-thumping peasantry was a HUGE factor that entered into the equation. The god-damned MAYOR even killed the possibility of an already established New York strip club from setting roots down here, 'cos he HEARD RUMOR of mob ties. I'm certain he didn't even actually look into it, but that was enough to bring down the guillotine on the idea. To add to THAT, there are a couple of popular strip clubs on a very popular (an actually upscale and civil) street that have had their renewal requests denied for their leases. I can hear the marching of the boots of the feminazis even as we speak... To pull it off, one would have to have a LOT of luck and a LOT of lawyers willing to go to bat for you. Battling the forces of the Anti-Sex League (a little "1984" reference for those of you who have taken the time to read said book) would be taxing upon even the most SUCCESSFUL enterprise. What citizen sitting on his ass at home is gonna deny a little girl crying (on cue) about the "evil" that such an establishment could bring upon their neighborhood? I saw such a telecast a few years ago and the acting by this little faker was hilarious! That's how LOW the Religious WRONG is willing to go. Instead of arguing the point on merit, they will circumvent that and use their kids to GUILT you into denying said enterprise. Don't get me wrong; if such a venture succeeded, I'd be a regular customer. However, I enjoy my anonymity and I don't want it compromised by some fucker who wants to bash a bible over my head and tell me I'm wrong and he's RIGHT.[/QUOTE]

This is the wrong forum for the reply I have, go over to the Mortality Of P4P board and check out my reply there...

There is a young lady I work with. She's 21, and pretty with big whopping monster tits. Consequently she has had every man in her life throwing themselves at her feet, and she has an unbelieveable princess mentality.

She also has a severely overdeveloped case of the "hot boys, hot boys" thing. Guys who she doesn't consider "hot" (pretty, rich, sexy, "bad and exciting"), barely register with her as HUMAN, let alone as potential dating partners.

I'm very glad to report that she today got shit on and DUMPED, Some guy (doubtless a rich prettyboy asshole, who can pick and choose among 20 girls at any given time) literally told her that he was deleting her phone number, and she couldn't call him anymore.

I'm sure that after throwing her little snatch at these guys for a couple of years, she will decide that "men suck".....it's all our fault as a gender after all

B9k

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Back in early to mid '98, I was doing a LOT of research into the possibility of actually opening a strip club in my metropolitan area, but the close-minded Bible-thumping peasantry was a HUGE factor that entered into the equation.[/QUOTE]
Well, I've never looked into opening a strip club myself, but am curious about how one goes about doing it (not going to do it myself though!) Instead of posting a report, I think I'll just ask a couple general questions that no one's ever really been able to answer for me:

1. Obviously, trying to open up a strip club in a bible-thumping section of the U.S. is not the way to go. And even though this country seems more puritanical than ever, there are still "pockets of resistance". Just to prove my point, the first strip clubs I ever went to in this country were in San Francisco, the most frequented being Mitchell Brothers O'Farrell Theater. There, one could grab ass and fondle tits without having a bouncer throw you out, and once inside the private rooms, negotiations for hand jobs, blow jobs and sex began (depending on the dancer, of course). Haven't been back in a few years, but I've heard it's still more or less the same. So, my point is it all depends on where you're located. Now the question I have for the entrepreneurs on this board is this: has anyone ever looked into what it takes to open up a brothel in the one state where you actually can? Why hasn't an establishment like an FKK or a Termas (Rio) opened up somewhere in NEVADA? Just put the money issue aside for a second, and focus on the possibility of it for now (pretend you have an unlimited amount of cash if you want). Again, sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm genuinely interested in any answers guys may have on here...

2. Now lets assume my plan for the Terma-style club in Carson City doesn't work out. Luckily, the U.S is not an island; and those of us that are lucky enough, depending on where we live, can make a drive to either Canada or Mexico. I'm not going to ask about Canada, since I've never mongered there, but I have been to TJ, and am familiar with the P4P down there. IMHO, it's pretty disappointing, but still better than anything in the U.S. So, why hasn't someone opened up a quality club there (again, like a Terma, for example), or anywhere else on the US-Mexico border? Obviously, prostitution is allowed in designated red light areas, so that's not the problem. It seems like a business savvy American (or Mexican, I guess) could really clean up with a high quality club, and flying to San Diego is a lot cheaper and easier than flying to Rio or BKK. Again, let's leave out money for a second and just focus on whether it's even viable. And if this is a stupid question, again, I apologize...

Not sure if this is the right thread for this post, but since I'm replying to one of Sinanju's posts I guess I'll just leave it here. If Jackson thinks it should be put somewhere else (Prostitution business ideas, perhaps lol), he can move it if he wishes...

SF is and always HAS BEEN apart from such religious nonsense. It's pretty much an area of free thinkers and a "live and let live" attitude. However, there are pockets of the country (the SOUTH, for example) where if you are not of the prevailing religion, then you are suspect.

Money must ALWAYS be an issue because you will have to defend yourself in court against some ******* who feels it is his civic duty to rid the community of the "filth" that your enterprise represents. Defending yourself means LAWYERS. They are sharks in and of their own right and will represent a SUBSTANTIAL portion of your operating expenses in order to STAY in business.

A strip club would be easier to operate and keep open than a FKK, because if ONE customer decides to be an asshole, he could alert the constabulary and they would send in someone undercover to bust it up. I've kept abreast of such activity occurring in Florida. The owner of the club in question is slipperier than an eel and has always prevailed, but that doesn't dampen the resolve of the RELIGIOUS WRONG. You wouldn't BELIEVE the bullshit rules the city in question have imposed upon the club. Also, GET THIS; in a meeting of the public and city council, a stripper of said club once busted on a member of the city council, stating specifically that he was a regular customer of the club he was attempting to shut down.

[QUOTE=Ezinho]Well, I've never looked into opening a strip club myself, but am curious about how one goes about doing it (not going to do it myself though!) Instead of posting a report, I think I'll just ask a couple general questions that no one's ever really been able to answer for me:

1. Obviously, trying to open up a strip club in a bible-thumping section of the U.S. is not the way to go. And even though this country seems more puritanical than ever, there are still "pockets of resistance". Just to prove my point, the first strip clubs I ever went to in this country were in San Francisco, the most frequented being Mitchell Brothers O'Farrell Theater. There, once could grab ass and fondle tits without having a bouncer throw you out, and once inside the private rooms, negotiations for hand jobs, blow jobs and sex began (depending on the dancer, of course). Haven't been back in a few years, but I've heard it's still more or less the same. So, my point is it all depends on where you're located. Now the question I have for the entrepreneurs on this board is this: has anyone ever looked into what it takes to open up a brothel in the one state where you actually can? Why hasn't an establishment like an FKK or a Termas (Rio) opened up somewhere in NEVADA? Just put the money issue aside for a second, and focus on the possibility of it for now (pretend you have an unlimited amount of cash if you want). Again, sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm genuinely interested in any answers guys may have on here...

2. Now lets assume my plan for the Terma-style club in Carson City doesn't work out. Luckily, the U.S is not an island; and those of us that are lucky enough, depending on where we live, can make a drive to either Canada or Mexico. I'm not going to ask about Canada, since I've never mongered there, but I have been to TJ, and am familiar with the P4P down there. IMHO, it's pretty disappointing, but still better than anything in the U.S. So, why hasn't someone opened up a quality club there (again, like a Terma, for example), or anywhere else on the US-Mexico border? Obviously, prostitution is allowed in designated red light areas, so that's not the problem. It seems like a business savvy Mexican (or American, I guess) could really clean up with a high quality club, and flying to San Diego is a lot cheaper and easier than flying to Rio or BKK. Again, let's leave out money for a second and just focus on whether it's even viable. And if this is a stupid question, again, I apologize...

Not sure if this is the right thread for this post, but since I'm replying to one of Sinanju's posts I guess I'll just leave it here. If Jackson thinks it should be put somewhere else (Prostitution business ideas, perhaps lol), he can move it if he wishes...[/QUOTE]

Lack of knowledge is mostly the reason. The brothel industry in Nevada hasn't had a new idea since the Hover Dam was built. Basically the thought is - "If it ain't broke..."

They get an influx of women from Southern California usually those that wouldn't do well vs. the high priced talent in this area. Or women from markets with plenty of providers but hardly any high paying consumers.

How Dennis got the powers that be at HBO to have an actual SERIES about his brothel is beyond me. That is the new puritan thinking you have in America at work.

Anyway, a Terma style brothel in Nevada would blow the lid off its competition in minutes!

When word got out that you didn't have to fly down to Brazil or out to Europe or Thailand to get PSE and GFE at reasonable prices and the girls make PLENTY of money and are happy, you couldn't stop the men from coming in and the women from trying to work there...

Why somebody hasn't done it is beyond me and like I said, I think its safer to just copy what others are doing, instead of striking out on your own and putting monster money into your brothel and being unsure of your return if you do so.

That's what stops the current brothels from being 4 star resorts they could be given the money available in America...

[QUOTE=Ezinho] So, why hasn't someone opened up a quality club there (again, like a Terma, for example), or anywhere else on the US-Mexico border? Obviously, prostitution is allowed in designated red light areas, so that's not the problem. It seems like a business savvy Mexican (or American, I guess) could really clean up with a high quality club, and flying to San Diego is a lot cheaper and easier than flying to Rio or BKK. Again, let's leave out money for a second and just focus on whether it's even viable. And if this is a stupid question, again, I apologize...[/QUOTE]

There is usually a lot more beneath the surface than it seems. In places like Mexico it not simply a question of the law saying that you can open a club and then doing it. In order to get the legal wheels turning you must grease them first, and that means paying a number of corrupt officials tamales/mordidas (bribes) just to get them to do their jobs in the first place.

Competing establishments have been there longer than you and therefore have better connections. They have no interest in seeing you succeed and will likely make it difficult if not impossible for you.

Then there is the security issue. The narcos might think that your establishment is a good retail outlet for their wares and you will have to find a way of keeping them out without getting caught up in one of their wars.

There are also chica management and liquor license issues. I guess guys with enough money to start a venture like that figure that there are easier ways to make money without all the headaches.

Opening and running a strip club comes with a lot of problems. Among them are:

- Dishonest employees who will rip you off.
- Prima Donna dancers who may be unreliable
- Competition who will try their best to destroy you
- the Public (as discussed before)
- Law enforcement
- the infiltration of drugs into your club,
which will give the public the excuse to get LE involved

The average strip club (as of 1998) pulls in about $5M a year. One VERY successful strip club was the Gold Club in Atlanta. I went there before it was raided because of prostitution issues (with a LOT of sports celebrites) and a host of other problems. The Gold Club raked in $20M a year. The owner was incarcerated (for tax issues, also, I believe) and it is now under new management. There are other successful clubs in Atlanta (the South, mind you), but they all have access to quality legal help. They seem to have worked out the bugs inherent to the business, BUT remember, if you are the new kid on the block, THEY are your competition. They will have the advantage of reputation, length of time in the business and resources. DON’T get me wrong guys, I’d LOVE to see a small, upstart club make it big on the merit of their service, but KNOW what you’re getting into before the business sucks your money faster than an AW intent on making you pay for the lobster dinner without the intent of reciprocating.

The other day I was at a strip club for the 1st time in a long time. I just walked in to have a beer. I still like to look at a good lookin gal and have a beer every once in a while so I go on happy hr when theres no door charge. I like to go in and check out all the guys spending money for dances a LOL at them thinking none of them could ever have been to any decent mongering destination.(THAILAND,PHILS, COSTA RICA or BRAZIL) If they have theres no way they spend 20 bucks on a 3 min Non touch, sit on your hands LAP tease. I really have to feel sorry for them in a way cause they know nothing better. We have a club here near where I live thats 40 bucks US for a total nude VIP ROOM lap tease and this place is always packed. This strip club obsession is the reason why no FFK type clubs will ever make it to the US shores. Theres no reason to FUCK a guy for 100 when you can just dance for him with limits on any touching for 10 minutes for a 100. And these gals are total stuck ups most of them. Fact is in the 25minutes I was there in the club I had 3 gals walk right up to me and ask point blank. WANT A DANCE??? No HI My name is so and so how are you? whats your name?? I thought you know these girls know nothing about selling a GFE to you and they hit you right at your money. All 3 without fail when I said Thanks but no thinks just walked away and that was that. WOW

Criminalization of prostitution in the US is a relatively recent development. Until approx 1910 it was generally treated as no more than a misdemeanor, and more often than not simply ignored. Between 1910 and 1920 every state passed laws regulating, mostly banning, sex for hire. This coincided with the successful campaign to allow women to vote, passed in 1920.

I'd say that coincidence is exactly the kind of thing this forum is all about.

Strip joints, massage parlors, escort services, etc. are all second rate attempts to circumvent the law prohibiting the plain old brothel. As is always the case with making something illegal, the price goes up and the quality goes down.

In case you hadn't noticed, America is a very strange place.

Hardbag,

You touched on the KEY point why there are no legal FKK style clubs in the US. It's because women don't want them. They oppose anything that even sounds like prostitution...... and when there's some man opposing it, you can bet he's got a woman standing behind him making sure he says what she wants to hear.

That's why P4P is where it is. It's hard to get any benefit by supporting the idea, but it's easy to benefit (socially and politically) by opposing the idea.

I don't think it will ever be completely eliminated, because there is simply too much demand by men with money to spend. Even with strip clubs siphoning off a lot of the money, there's still a lot of guys that want full contact and are unwilling to settle for such an unsatisfying substitute as a strip club.

Rock

Ive said it a few times that strip clubs are degrading to men.The reason they still exist is because women can benefit from them.Maybe not all women agree with this but too many make a good living at it.Besides the money there is no contact and full time security watching their back thats something any ***** would appreciate.I assume some might have to give it up to the bouncers or club owners but what a small price to pay for a cash business.I dont hear too many stories of women being forced to stay.More than likely they would only need to service one or two men compared to several as a full contact prostitute.
I have heard there are still sleazy strip clubs in the deep south with mainly a black clientel.Can anyone verify this? 10 years ago in south florida I used to go to a few sleazy biker bars with chunky sluts that would work your bone for $10 they all had vanished or super sized the last time I was there.

Hardbarg,

All that also coincides with Prohibition, the federal laws outlawing alcohol.

If you live in North America, you don't have to go very far to get off, our northern neighbor, Canada, has some fine places for p4p, Montreal is the sex capital of North America, and is consistently ranked among the top ten cities in the world to meet beautiful women. Vancouver is another good spot. There is also the Caribbean and Mexico. Spending the last half a decade in Australia, for the long run Aussie women are just as bad as their American counterparts, they will rarely commit themselves to a relationship, although some might be fun in the beginning, in the long run, they get old, fat, ugly, and nasty after a while.

CBGB,

It's been a while since you posted. The guys were beginning to think that one of those Aussie sharks, the terrestrial kind, got you. It's pretty much like when you buy that new car; the flawless paint and the distinct fragrance of new upholstery can be estatic. However, a few years down the road you can be left feeling cheated, wondering why you shelled out all that loot for such a heap. :D

"What you get: Delicious wet panties - Used panties that have been worn and then rubbed into me while I'm wet. These will be vacuum packed then sent to you in a plain looking envelope. Your privacy is always respected. Cost: 35.USD"

WTF? I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this one. Thirty-five dollars to smell some old bird's yeast encrusted drawers! Yes that's right, an old buzzard. I hope you didn't think that you were going to get to sniff some 18 yr old skank's drawers for $35 because it would probably cost $200. No dear fellows, Connie is pushing 50+ yrs and still thinks men should pay just to get a whiff of that postmenopausal poon. Hey this is America!

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]WTF? I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this one. Thirty-five dollars to smell some old bird's yeast encrusted drawers! Yes that's right, an old buzzard. I hope you didn't think that you were going to get to sniff some 18 yr old skank's drawers for $35 because it would probably cost $200. No dear fellows, Connie is pushing 50+ yrs and still thinks men should pay just to get a whiff of that postmenopausal poon. Hey this is America![/QUOTE]

Hey-as you say-This is America-land of free enterprise. If Connie can fetch that price for her used panties who are we to complain.

But really Japan is the driving force behind the used panty market.

[url]http://www.kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=1259&rtn=main-topten[/url]

In light of this I would settle for Connie's product...

<Falls to knees vomiting VIOLENTLY>

I happened to be on a metro train headed for the airport when this ugly, fugly AW hefer jumped on board the train with her three loud kids in tow (age range 3-5yrs). I don't like calling people ugly, but she looked hideous, she must have weighed close to 300#.. Her upper arms were bigger than my thighs. I had to ask myself what guy in their right mind would want to do the bedroom lambada with this woman. Unfortunately it seems that alot of American guys are so desparate that they will settle for any thing that walks thru' the door pussy wide open. Folks we've got to start thinking with the main head and not the small head down below. I have no doubt this woman's SO will be in a world of hurt for the rest of his life.

There's something that I've noticed a lot of lately. There seems to be a lot of younger guys dating older women. We're not talking cougars here. These are guys in their early 20's up to maybe somewhere in their 30's. A lot of them seem to be dating women that are between 3 to 7 years older.

That's not really a very big gap.... but it used to be that the guy was ALWAYS at least the same age or a couple of years older. Many of these women have one or two kids already and not many of them are that attractive. The one common thread that seems to unite the guys in these relationships is that none of them are making very much $$$.

My guess is they just want to get laid. The women aren't getting a guy who's making very much, but this is partly compensated by the fact that he's younger than the other guys they were with before. Chances are, quite a few of these party mamas are divorced and collecting support from the ex. Therefore, the only thing they want from their current relationship is a good fuck..... marrying the new guy would mean the end of the free money supply from the ex.

Kind of sad to see the kind of twisted male/female relationships that are evolving in today's warped social environment.

Rock

that means that she's fucking TWO guys instead of just ONE... While I'd be happy to be enjoying the benefits without the responsibilities, knowing that my fun comes at the expense of another guy who may be an innocent schmoe who's simply trying to maintain a relationship with his kids while the situation is being held hostage by the broad would trouble my conscience somewhat...

I have a counter-offer for Connie.

Instead of money, I'll trade her some of MY used underwear. I'll make sure she gets the pair with the big ole skidmark!

Whattya say Connie....Even trade?
:D

Rock

Rock,

You can check out Connie at Conniespanties dot com and send your counter offer. I'm sure she'd be thrilled to whiff some relatively young manflesh. Like you said, these old birds love young hard cocks. They can't get enough of it while the older ex-hubby gets to pay the bills.

The older woman deal is not too bad for the younger guy providing he gets the following:
1. An older woman who doesn't try to pressure him into marriage and adopting the kids.
2. He is not expected to support her and her kids.
3. Pussy is still usable with a bit of KY Jelly, Astroglide or Stay Wet.
4. She sucks a mean cock after having spent many years in the trenches.
5. He isn't expected to play the role of surrogate father.
6. She doesn't carry too much bile and venom from her previous marriages.
7. The relationship doesn't preclude hot young action on the side.
8. She doesn't go all clingy and pscho on him (boiling his rabbit, pouring acid on his car and such).
9. She doesn't want, or better yet can't, have more kids.
10. The titties aren't too torn up from suckling the young.

It isn't uncommon to find younger guys with older chicks in Latin America. Why? Well, hot young pussy is easy to get, usually poor and ready to bolt when a better deal shows up. Older Latin chicks are a bit more predictable and loyal; plus with P4P and mistresses readily available in the culture the younger guys probably don't feel like they're missing out on anything.

Compare that to the US where the piece of ass that you marry is the only piece you're expected to get until death or ruinous divorce. The little P4P available is expensive, hit and miss, and very risky; not to mention if you get caught screwing a hooker the judge will bludgeon you to death with the book instead of just sodmozing you with his gavel in divorce court.

Here is an interesting article from an American who went to Brazil but supposedly did not monger. [url]http://www.slate.com/id/2147712/entry/2147710/?GT1=8483[/url]

Chocha,

I always get a big laugh when I read one of those "News Stories" where some guy goes off to report on the "terrible and shameful things" that are going on out there in the world. The best part is how they always have to make the disclaimer as to how they didn't ever partake of said activities.

Yeah right! A healthy heterosexual man on the loose in Brazil with his significant other back home 2 thousand miles away...... and he kept it in his pants the whole time? Naw man, any man that has a pair of functioning testes would be all over that situation!

There's a local paper here called the Winnipeg Sun. About a year ago, the parent company of the paper sent a couple of guys to the Dominican Republic for a week...... to do that same old story. They showed pics of 40 and 50 year old white guys hooking up with beautiful young Dominican girls. They even tried to work some kind of child prostitution angle with the headlines but, after reading the articles carefully, one noticed that they never came up with even a single example. I guess scandalous headlines sell more papers.

The funniest part was where these guys said they went to a bar, met some girls before they even got inside. Then they went to the girls place, negotiated a price........ and backed out!!! Explaining to the girls that they were merely there to do REPORTING. It gets even better.... they claimed to have paid the girls the negotiated price just for telling their story. HAW!

Here's what I think REALLY happened. 2 Canadian reporters land in DR. The trip and hotel are paid for.... and these 2 no doubt brought a little "spending money" of their own. They then meet up with some girls, exactly as reported. They then take them back to the hotel where they proceed to fuck their brains out. This is only natural since these guys probably never experienced quality pussy of this sort. After a satisfying, life-changing, mind-altering all night session..... they take the girls story down the next morning. This series of events probably gets repeated a couple more times before our 2 "heroes" return home.

The point of this post? I guess it all comes down to my intense dislike for hypocrisy, which I feel is one of the worst forms of lying.

Rock

ps. This guy goes to Brazil, ends up in HELP.... and then tells a hot young babe that he can't be unfaithful to his AW girlfriend back home? Yeah right.

all over the media about this (i must admit) creepy looking guy who claims to have raped drugged and killed her. has a history in possessing kiddie porn, getting fired for inappropriate behavior to the girls etc. i don't know about his guilt in this; my comments are on the media.

he was arrested in thailand where he was working as a teacher. the media is using this sensationalized story as a springboard to "investigate" all about the sex tourism industry, of course with the assumption that it's all about finding **** girls. so their desire is to paint any guy going to a place as los as a child molester and exploiter. notice not a word about the fat ugly old cows going to haiti, cuba, or jamaica to score some young flesh.

about jonbenet ramsey: she was a 5 y.o. "beauty queen", her parents obsessively entering her in all those disgusting pageants. videos show her prancing around sexually suggestively in showgirl outfits. i see no difference between this and kiddie porn, as to the harm it does to those involved and the society in general. kinda ironic, as the hotbed for these contests is in the south, the bible belt.

Was scoping out some of the local escort ads when I came across this one. At first, it looked like some kind of a joke.... and then I realized how high some people's expectations can go.

Here, if you can believe it, is the ad for an escort named Chanel:

I'm a young, drama-free, classy, athletic, intelligent lady who loves to cuddle, be affectionate, and give you the full GFE -girlfriend experience you deserve.

RATES:
My rates are non-negotiable and non-refundable for time and companionship. (Serious inquires only, please respect my time as I will respect yours & have pre-counted donation in an unsealed envelope placed on table or in glass candy dish before pleasure within the first few minutes of our meeting.

---IN WINNIPEG---
**ADDITIONAL $50.00 FOR GREEK**
**ADDITIONAL $100.00 FOR BBBJ MUST BE VERY CLEAN AND NO INTENSE ODOUR (NO CIM & FACIALS)**
**ADDITIONAL $150.00 FOR BONDAGE & DOMINATION**
10-30MIN QUICKES ONLY---$200.00CAD/USD
1.0 HOUR-----$250.00CAD/USD
1.5 HOURS----$350.00CAD/USD
2.0 HOURS----$450.00CAD/USD
2.5 HOURS----$600.00CAD/USD
3.0 HOURS----$750.00CAD/USD (GREEK/BBBJ/BON&DOM FREE ONLY FOR 3.0+ HOUR APPOINTMENTS)
3.5 HOURS----$900.00CAD/USD
4.0 HOURS----$1,050.00CAD/USD
4.5 HOURS----$1,200.00CAD/USD
5.0 HOURS----$1,350.00CAD/USD
5.5 HOURS----$1,500.00CAD/USD
6.0 HOURS----$1,650.00CAD/USD ($150.00CAD/USD FOR EACH ADDITIONAL 30MINUTES & $250.00CAD/USD FOR EACH ADDITIONAL HOUR)
12.0 HOURS OR OVERNIGHT----$3,000.00CAD/USD
1 DAY----$6,000.00CAD/USD


And..... just in case you felt like Chanel wasn't being fairly compensated for her time, she gives the following hint:


Gifts and surprises are always appreciated. Here are a few hints for gifts:**

- Workout clothes
- Lingerie and undergarments
- Scented oils, lotions, soaps, bubble bath, and gift certificates from the Body Shop and LUSH
- Gift certificates for online shopping at Victoria Secret, Fredricks of Hollywood, Venus Swimwear, La Senza, La Vie En Rose, LuLu Lemon, Foot Locker, The Running Room, Under Armour.ca, Chapters, Coles The Book People, and McNally Robinson.
- House of Dereon, Dolce&Gabbana, Prada, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Versace, Hugo Boss, Marc Jacobs, Chanel, La Perla.


Oh by the way...... Chanel doesn't want guys in other countries to be deprived of a chance to spend a little time (and a lot of money) with her. For guys in USA, Asia, Europe and Australia she gives the following offer:


---FLY ME TO YOU IN OTHER USA/TROPICAL LOCATIONS---
1 DAY-----------------$12,000.00USD
2 DAYS/WEEKEND--------$18,000.00USD
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND---$24,000.00USD
4 DAYS----------------$30,000.00USD
5 DAYS----------------$36,000.00USD
7 DAYS----------------$42,000.00USD

---FLY ME TO YOU IN EUROPE---
1 DAY------------------$6,000.00GBP
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$12,000.00GBP
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$18,000.00GBP
4 DAYS-----------------$24,000.00GBP
5 DAYS-----------------$30,000.00GBP
7 DAYS-----------------$42,000.00GBP

---FLY ME TO YOU IN ASIA---
1 DAY------------------$6,000.00GBP
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$12,000.00GBP
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$18,000.00GBP
4 DAYS-----------------$24,000.00GBP
5 DAYS-----------------$30,000.00GBP
7 DAYS-----------------$42,000.00GBP

---FLY ME TO YOU IN AUSTRALIA---
1 DAY------------------$20,000.00AUD
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$30,000.00AUD
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$40,000.00AUD
4 DAYS-----------------$50,000.00AUD
5 DAYS-----------------$60,000.00AUD
7 DAYS-----------------$70,000.00AUD



Has anybody else here ever seen anything like this? Are there actually guys out there who would blow that kind of coin on some pussy? Is there any pussy in the whole wide world that is worth that much money?

Comments?

Rock

This beeyatch must be fucking CRAZY! What's so sad is that an AM is gonna take her up on it. Like Eddie Murphy said in "Raw", if the oceans roared, if the mountains crumbled, etc. NO PUSSY is worth THAT MUCH". (Just a LITTLE parahrasing, since I don't have the vid on my person). I must say that I was astonished at how much she valued herself. Or shall I say how FULL of herself she was? IF I found out the identity of the guy caving into this bullshit in order to be with her, I'd be tempted to smack him upside the head, kidnap him and force him to read the posts on this site until he saw the light.

yogin: yeah, that's strange shit with kiddy beauty contests. hard to know what to make of it. turns out i stayed in blooms where that guy was holed up. there are lots of transients in places like bangkok and pattaya where i went afterwards.

i spent my time in pattaya drinking in the dogs bollox, a good spot to watch football. every time pattaya makes the uk papers, numbers go up as the word goes out on the street that cheap pussy is available.

i commuted between the dogs bollox and lek hotel. some birds drink too much like the uk roses but overall after being in thailand, uk birds are for the birds. fat, drink and eat too much, fucking disgusting inside and out.

one of the birds i banged told me she had plenty of lady customers. strap ons, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord101][CodeWord101][/url] and tight purses (pussies the size of the grand canyon like their arses). hard to appreciate western women after that.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Here, if you can believe it, is the ad for an escort named Chanel:

I'm a young, drama-free, classy, athletic, intelligent lady who loves to cuddle, be affectionate, and give you the full GFE -girlfriend experience you deserve.

RATES:
My rates are non-negotiable and non-refundable for time and companionship. (Serious inquires only, please respect my time as I will respect yours & have pre-counted donation in an unsealed envelope placed on table or in glass candy dish before pleasure within the first few minutes of our meeting.

---IN WINNIPEG---
**ADDITIONAL $50.00 FOR GREEK**
**ADDITIONAL $100.00 FOR BBBJ MUST BE VERY CLEAN AND NO INTENSE ODOUR (NO CIM & FACIALS)**
**ADDITIONAL $150.00 FOR BONDAGE & DOMINATION**
10-30MIN QUICKES ONLY---$200.00CAD/USD
1.0 HOUR-----$250.00CAD/USD
1.5 HOURS----$350.00CAD/USD
2.0 HOURS----$450.00CAD/USD
2.5 HOURS----$600.00CAD/USD
3.0 HOURS----$750.00CAD/USD

Has anybody else here ever seen anything like this? Are there actually guys out there who would blow that kind of coin on some pussy? Is there any pussy in the whole wide world that is worth that much money?

Comments?

Rock[/QUOTE]
To answer your questions, unfortunately the answers are yes.

Let me first say that I would probably never deal with this woman. Way to much attitude, and I also agree she is overpriced - but I know where to do better. That being said, I'm afraid your shock is a little misplaced.

First, for what it's worth, I don't think she's very bright. Current rates:

1 Canadian Dollar (CAD) = 0.88803 US Dollar (USD)

So if you pay in CAD you're getting an 11% discount. That brings her price down to $222 US / hr. Find an ATM. If she knew what she was doing she'd never quote both currencies the same.

I did a quick internet search and found this on one of the Nevada web sites, just as an example.

View Poll Results: My last party, I paid per hour:
$200.....................7....11.11%
$300...................13....20.63%
$400...................16....25.40%
$500.....................6.....9.52%
More than $500....18...28.57%
$1000 or more.......3.....4.76%

Amazingly enough, she's actually a bargain. You should never underestimate how desperate and stupid American men can be, at least the one's in Vegas.

Hardbag,

It's true that, by the hour, her rates aren't completely mad. However, if you look at the whole post and see the "hints" for gifts..... and her weekly rates. 42,000 GBP? Last time I checked, that worked out to around $80,000.

For $80k I could take 6 months off of work and shag dozens of women in different countries all over the world. A years pay for one week of access to one womans pussy?

Insane.

Rock

Rok:

I'm not arguing with you. My take is that publishing such an extensive price list makes this bimbo seem just a bit self-absorbed, and kind of tightly wound, to put it gently. But - she is priced competitively for the US, on the short end anyways. The problem is she's gonna get takers.

For 80,000 US Dollars I could live about 2-3 years in Thailand or the Phils or Brazil I am sure of it.

Hardbag, no argument for sure. I just thought you might not have noticed the last part of her ad (or should it be called a wish list?) THAT was where things got truly outrageous.

I got the feeling that the last part was just thrown in there for effect.... trying to make herself seem more exotic, or just trying to set her ad apart from all the other ads. NOBODY is going to take her up on that one.

If someone offered her free airfare and lodgings for a week anywhere overseas, plus let's say $1,000 in spending money, that would be a hell of a good deal. Of course from her end of things, it's a high risk. She could go off somewhere, find out too late that the guy is some kind of psycho, and then never be heard from again.

I was giving some thought to that thing about the exchange rate. It's true that $250 here is around $220 US. However, the cost of living is a lot less here. Where I live, $200 - $250k will buy you a pretty nice house. Eg. there's a new, built in 2004 house, 1900 sq. ft in a nice neighbourhood that was listed at $275,000. The point is that for 1,000 hrs of work at her rates, she could buy a nice house. Think about the cost of a comparable house where you live. It's probably a lot more.... let's just say it was $400k for a house like that in many large US cities. That means proportionately, a girl would have to charge $400 an hour to be equal.

That's a lot!

Rock

[QUOTE=Streetlooker]For 80,000 US Dollars I could live about 2-3 years in Thailand or the Phils or Brazil I am sure of it.[/QUOTE]

Actually that would go pretty far as I understand it in just about any South American country, take your pick.

I work with 2 people from the Phils and they always mention how cheap it is as one mentioned to me today that most workers get $60US a week in their paycheck which works out to be like 5,000 pesos I think.

Mexico is also dirt cheap.

80K will get alot done....

I'd choose to invest about half of it and burn up the rest running around the world...

5,000 pesos is just under $100 US and that is salary for a month if they can get a job and many cannot. And an American heifer wants that and a Hermes bag. Ha ha ha. Best thing to do with these slappers is a pat on the arse and tel lthem to get their fat hides out to fuck.

With the same money, you could have a 24/7 orgy with prettier, nicer, sexy women. Leave the heifers for the bulls to fuck. Vote with your feet guys.

These Asain places are only good if you shop local. The old adage about the fool and his money holds true in Asia too. You should see all the peniless, Euro wankers stranded in places like Pattaya. Remember why God invented slappers guys. They exist for our amusement. So enjoy them but don't spoil them with too much dick or too much $$$.

Richard Gere is doing a movie that is going to be called....The Expat!

It's being shot in Argentina, but I don't know if it's supposed to be set there. Still, that's one movie I want to see!

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]---IN WINNIPEG---
**ADDITIONAL $50.00 FOR GREEK**
**ADDITIONAL $100.00 FOR BBBJ MUST BE VERY CLEAN AND NO INTENSE ODOUR (NO CIM & FACIALS)**
**ADDITIONAL $150.00 FOR BONDAGE & DOMINATION**
10-30MIN QUICKES ONLY---$200.00CAD/USD
1.0 HOUR-----$250.00CAD/USD
1.5 HOURS----$350.00CAD/USD
2.0 HOURS----$450.00CAD/USD
2.5 HOURS----$600.00CAD/USD
3.0 HOURS----$750.00CAD/USD (GREEK/BBBJ/BON&DOM FREE ONLY FOR 3.0+ HOUR APPOINTMENTS)
3.5 HOURS----$900.00CAD/USD
4.0 HOURS----$1,050.00CAD/USD
4.5 HOURS----$1,200.00CAD/USD
5.0 HOURS----$1,350.00CAD/USD
5.5 HOURS----$1,500.00CAD/USD
6.0 HOURS----$1,650.00CAD/USD ($150.00CAD/USD FOR EACH ADDITIONAL 30MINUTES & $250.00CAD/USD FOR EACH ADDITIONAL HOUR)
12.0 HOURS OR OVERNIGHT----$3,000.00CAD/USD
1 DAY----$6,000.00CAD/USD


---FLY ME TO YOU IN OTHER USA/TROPICAL LOCATIONS---
1 DAY-----------------$12,000.00USD
2 DAYS/WEEKEND--------$18,000.00USD
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND---$24,000.00USD
4 DAYS----------------$30,000.00USD
5 DAYS----------------$36,000.00USD
7 DAYS----------------$42,000.00USD

---FLY ME TO YOU IN EUROPE---
1 DAY------------------$6,000.00GBP
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$12,000.00GBP
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$18,000.00GBP
4 DAYS-----------------$24,000.00GBP
5 DAYS-----------------$30,000.00GBP
7 DAYS-----------------$42,000.00GBP

---FLY ME TO YOU IN ASIA---
1 DAY------------------$6,000.00GBP
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$12,000.00GBP
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$18,000.00GBP
4 DAYS-----------------$24,000.00GBP
5 DAYS-----------------$30,000.00GBP
7 DAYS-----------------$42,000.00GBP

---FLY ME TO YOU IN AUSTRALIA---
1 DAY------------------$20,000.00AUD
2 DAYS/WEEKEND---------$30,000.00AUD
3 DAYS/LONG WEEKEND----$40,000.00AUD
4 DAYS-----------------$50,000.00AUD
5 DAYS-----------------$60,000.00AUD
7 DAYS-----------------$70,000.00AUD


Comments?

Rock[/QUOTE]

There are some extremely high class agencies available for CEO's etc, where as well customers and the girls get an extreme screening by an agency (outside US), and probably the girls get even trained.

In this high end circle the newcomers start with about 1500-2500 $ and the top end can reach for about 5000 $ on daily rates and only certain exceptions might get more. In this top class there are only daily rates and there is always a discount the longer the stay is.

All financial transfer is going discretely and anonymous by swift transfer outside US (the best is from outside to outside). So no risk for getting involved with anti prostitution laws. If you are a newcommer, cash transfer is even in advance.
But the girls will be reliable and will deliver extraordinery sex services as well as they are top educated women, beeing able to manage every public or social event and nobody would ever assume a prostitute behind.
You would get your money back in case of trouble. But agency will avoid any of that trouble by girl selection. But you have to qualify as a customer as well as the girl.


The girl here is just fishing for some idiot, probably with no intension to deliver appropriate services and no High class customer (hey the guys with that much money are no idiots and know and expect value for money in this class as well) would ever consider a longer stay, having much better opprtunities as described above..
- No serious top provider from a top agency would ever offer a quicky rate 10-30 minutes for whatever price.
- No serious top provider would ever write a menu card for optional sex services on a webpage. This is a deal with the customer and if the girl e.g. doesn't provide anal, then it's simply mentioned by the agency during the booking process.
- completely bullshit that a more then 1 day sessions is still counted in 30 min slots. She will watch only the time instead of delivering services.

So with this add she will only get customers in the 30 min to 2h quickie's sessions.
High class is a different environment and will not work without a professional discretional agency.

Somebudy out there who risks the 200 $ to prove her?

regards

Brain666

[QUOTE=Brain666]There are some extremely high class agencies available for CEO's etc, where as well customers and the girls get an extreme screening by an agency (outside US), and probably the girls get even trained.

In this high end circle the newcomers start with about 1500-2500 $ and the top end can reach for about 5000 $ on daily rates and only certain exceptions might get more. In this top class there are only daily rates and there is always a discount the longer the stay is.

All financial transfer is going discretely and anonymous by swift transfer outside US (the best is from outside to outside). So no risk for getting involved with anti prostitution laws. If you are a newcommer, cash transfer is even in advance.
But the girls will be reliable and will deliver extraordinery sex services as well as they are top educated women, beeing able to manage every public or social event and nobody would ever assume a prostitute behind.
You would get your money back in case of trouble. But agency will avoid any of that trouble by girl selection. But you have to qualify as a customer as well as the girl.


The girl here is just fishing for some idiot, probably with no intension to deliver appropriate services and no High class customer (hey the guys with that much money are no idiots and know and expect value for money in this class as well) would ever consider a longer stay, having much better opprtunities as described above..
- No serious top provider from a top agency would ever offer a quicky rate 10-30 minutes for whatever price.
- No serious top provider would ever write a menu card for optional sex services on a webpage. This is a deal with the customer and if the girl e.g. doesn't provide anal, then it's simply mentioned by the agency during the booking process.
- completely bullshit that a more then 1 day sessions is still counted in 30 min slots. She will watch only the time instead of delivering services.

So with this add she will only get customers in the 30 min to 2h quickie's sessions.
High class is a different environment and will not work without a professional discretional agency.

Somebudy out there who risks the 200 $ to prove her?

regards

Brain666[/QUOTE]
Escorts always market themselves as upscale *****s, personally speaking in countries with legal brothels and prostitution plenty of inexpensive and high quality services are available and easy to find. I have used escorts and incalls in Montreal, and found it to be an exception to the rule of being a rip off. In fact, for those who cannot afford international travel this city is a great place to find amazing sexual services that you cannot find anywhere else in North America.

Brain666,

You made some good points there. A little more about this particular girl.... in her ad, it says she's originally from Jamaica but the picture of her looks like a white girl or VERY light-skinned.

My guess is that she put the last section in her ad in an effort to make her look special. Or like you said, it's a " Hail-Mary " shot at scoring big with one lone idiot out there who might actually be inclined to take her up on that kind of offer.

Personally, I think it might be fun to send her an email asking if she really thinks that anyone would ever pay that much $$$ for a few days with one woman.

Rock

RD, sending this broad an e-mail telling her she isn't worth such a king's ransom is only gonna result in her indignation and it's a waste of time. However, it COULD be fun, like teasing the monkeys at the zoo. Her over-inflated sense of self won't easily be overcome. I did the same thing to a broad in Atlanta after one of the posters to this board gave details. I told her that she must be on crack and that her shit ain't worth NEARLY that much. Her very eloquent response was: "Fuck you". These skank specimens are ALWAYS gonna find suckers.

On another note, I hope I'm only paranoid, but I sense impending doom regarding the following article. "Guilt by association" will be the mantra of AW's.

[url]http://www.bangkokpost.com/Perspective/27Aug2006_pers001.php[/url]

Sinj,

That EXACTLY the reason why I would email her! It's like teasing monkeys at the Zoo.... hahaha I like that.

Rock

Hey, guys,

I have been reading this section for some time now, going through almost all of the backdated reports, and of course having my own opinion, agreed with some points and disagreed with some. Thought I might introduce myself rather than just lurk around.

Just a bit of background: I am an Indian guy (from India, not American Indian :) ) have lived across Europe as a child thanks to my Dad's job and have spent 5 years in the US, came back 4 years back, have travelled a bit more on my own, a little bit of EE and South-East Asia thrown in, so I guess for my age, I count myself more travelled than most people (at least Indian).

I feel I have to agree with most of the people here in general, about the attitude of American women being pretty disgusting towards men as compared to most other countries' women, but i would add, and this has been discussed before, that with a lot of westernisation of not just developing nations but of most countries outside of the US, the women of the cosmopolitan cities are becoming more and more like what is being termed here as American women's attitudes. Especially with Oprah and stuff being shown at least here, in Delhi, I find a lot of women discussing topics on that behaving like that even though the culture, circumstances and atmosphere is nothing like that in the States. It's sad to see this.

Anyway, I was actually going to write a lot more and bring up a couple of discussion points, but I got to run so i guess I will have to do that later.

But do keep this discussion up guys, and hey, remember, don’t forget to keep the mongering up too, lets all just not get near these women with them attitudes, I know I catch my fair share of non-pros too despite the advent of “Oprahism” in urban India, where I am right now.

Catch you all later

Hey, guys, I have been reading this section for some time now, going through almost all of the backdated reports, and of course having my own opinion, agreed with some points and disagreed with some. Thought I might introduce myself rather than just lurk around.

Just a bit of background: I am an Indian guy (from India, not American Indian :) ) have lived across Europe as a child thanks to my Dad's job and have spent 5 years in the US, came back 4 years back, have travelled a bit more on my own, a little bit of EE and South-East Asia thrown in, so I guess for my age, I count myself more travelled than most people (at least Indian).

I feel I have to agree with most of the people here in general, about the attitude of American women being pretty disgusting towards men as compared to most other countries' women, but i would add, and this has been discussed before, that with a lot of westernisation of not just developing nations but of most countries outside of the US, the women of the cosmopolitan cities are becoming more and more like what is being termed here as American women's attitudes. Especially with Oprah and stuff being shown at least here, in Delhi, I find a lot of women discussing topics on that behaving like that even though the culture, circumstances and atmosphere is nothing like that in the States. It's sad to see this.

Anyway, I was actually going to write a lot more and bring up a couple of discussion points, but I got to run so i guess I will have to do that later.

But do keep this discussion up guys, and hey, remember, don’t forget to keep the mongering up too, lets all just not get near these women with them attitudes, I know I catch my fair share of non-pros too despite the advent of “Oprahism” in urban India, where I am right now.

Catch you all later

This is the article from Forbes that has all the feminazis so pissed off!

Don't Marry Career Women
by Michael Noer
Forbes.com
August 21, 2006

Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner.

Not a happy conclusion, especially given that many men, particularly successful men, are attracted to women with similar goals and aspirations. And why not? After all, your typical career girl is well-educated, ambitious, informed and engaged. All seemingly good things, right? Sure…at least until you get married. Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you. Sound familiar?

In Pictures: Nine Reasons To Steer Clear Of Career Women
Many factors contribute to a stable marriage, including the marital status of your spouse's parents (folks with divorced parents are significantly more likely to get divorced themselves), age at first marriage, race, religious beliefs and socio-economic status. And, of course, many working women are indeed happily and fruitfully married--it's just that they are less likely to be so than non-working women. And that, statistically speaking, is the rub.

To be clear, we're not talking about a high-school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year.
If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy ( Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do ( Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do ( Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill ( American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier ( Institute for Social Research).

Why? Well, despite the fact that the link between work, women and divorce rates is complex and controversial, much of the reasoning is based on a lot of economic theory and a bit of common sense. In classic economics, a marriage is, at least in part, an exercise in labor specialization. Traditionally men have tended to do "market" or paid work outside the home and women have tended to do "non-market" or household work, including raising children. All of the work must get done by somebody, and this pairing, regardless of who is in the home and who is outside the home, accomplishes that goal. Nobel laureate Gary S. Becker argued that when the labor specialization in a marriage decreases--if, for example, both spouses have careers--the overall value of the marriage is lower for both partners because less of the total needed work is getting done, making life harder for both partners and divorce more likely. And, indeed, empirical studies have concluded just that.

In 2004, John H. Johnson examined data from the Survey of Income and Program Participation and concluded that gender has a significant influence on the relationship between work hours and increases in the probability of divorce. Women's work hours consistently increase divorce, whereas increases in men's work hours often have no statistical effect. "I also find that the incidence in divorce is far higher in couples where both spouses are working than in couples where only one spouse is employed," Johnson says. A few other studies, which have focused on employment (as opposed to working hours) have concluded that working outside the home actually increases marital stability, at least when the marriage is a happy one. But even in these studies, wives' employment does correlate positively to divorce rates, when the marriage is of "low marital quality."

The other reason a career can hurt a marriage will be obvious to anyone who has seen their mate run off with a co-worker: When your spouse works outside the home, chances increase they'll meet someone they like more than you. "The work environment provides a host of potential partners," researcher Adrian J. Blow reported in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy, "and individuals frequently find themselves spending a great deal of time with these individuals."

There's more: According to a wide-ranging review of the published literature, highly educated people are more likely to have had extra-marital sex (those with graduate degrees are 1.75 more likely to have cheated than those with high school diplomas.) Additionally, individuals who earn more than $30,000 a year are more likely to cheat.

And if the cheating leads to divorce, you're really in trouble. Divorce has been positively correlated with higher rates of alcoholism, clinical depression and suicide. Other studies have associated divorce with increased rates of cancer, stroke, and sexually-transmitted disease. Plus divorce is financially devastating. According to one recent study on "Marriage and Divorce's Impact on Wealth," published in The Journal of Sociology, divorced people see their overall net worth drop an average of 77%.

So why not just stay single? Because, academically speaking, a solid marriage has a host of benefits beyond just individual "happiness." There are broader social and health implications as well. According to a 2004 paper entitled "What Do Social Scientists Know About the Benefits of Marriage?" marriage is positively associated with "better outcomes for children under most circumstances," higher earnings for adult men, and "being married and being in a satisfying marriage are positively associated with health and negatively associated with mortality." In other words, a good marriage is associated with a higher income, a longer, healthier life and better-adjusted kids.

A word of caution, though: As with any social scientific study, it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. In other words, just because married folks are healthier than single people, it doesn't mean that marriage is causing the health gains. It could just be that healthier people are more likely to be married.


Interesting...... any comments?

Rock

This article to some degree supports one of my primary assertions:

Women as a whole, don't really WANT to be a "co-provider". Feminism got them equal (in practice "superior") rights, and they (particularly the middle and upper middle class) went out, hit the workforce, and found out that IT SUCKS OUT HERE, AND THEY HAD THE BETTER END OF THE DEAL ALL ALONG.

One of my pet theories is as follows. Sociology dictates that traditionally, the holder of economic power (the provider-either male or female) has the power to make decisions in a relationship. Now, women in most cases demand or believe that they are entitled to equal or superior power in the relationship, but are usually not holding up their end of the "breadwinning".....or if they are at least coming close to it, they fucking resent it. This obviously is a big, nasty obnoxious imbalance in the yin/yang of relationships......no fucking wonder that the divorce rate is 50-60% (I actually maintain that the figure is being held down by heavily Catholic hispanic immigrants...I'm guessing that among the middle and upper middle class it is or will soon be 70%)

B9K

I really agree with the point Forbes makes about that most women, even professional women. are happier when the primary breadwinner is the male and by extension bart9000's assertion that the women then realise they have the better end of the deal.

For example, my ex-fiance, not really ex, since we are on and off, an American citizen, has been running a small business setup by her Dad who ran it with her, but as soon as our talks about marriage started, she was like, i dont want to work after marriage, other than maybe a hobby or two which may or may not make money. Guess she realises that that would be the sweet end of the deal.

This also reminds me of a friend of mine and one of his favourite stories. He was working hard to afford a vacation his new wife really wanted to go to, and one day came home really late, hungry and tired after working overtime; however, his wife made dinner late since she was watching some movie on television and she said she didnt feel like it at the time, and hence, becasue he slept late, he wanted to wake up late, reaching one hour later to work. So his wife woke him up and started complaining that he doesnt get to the office on time and he should because they want the money etc., he kept his mouth shut and in the end just told her, well if you would do your job and give me food on time, maybe then I can get enough rest to get to my job on time. That shut her up real good. Needless to say, he wisened up real quick and left her, though he is still paying alimony.

This is very true in urban India too, (its the same almost everywhere now) where the male is still supposed to be the primary breadwinner, and can't take a break because he doesn't feel like it or doesn't like his job. But the female, she can take a break when she wants quoting "I don't feel like cooking tonight, lets eat out". I just think about that and wonder - is it really a man's world, what all the feminists are still keep claiming it to be?

Makes me laugh at their Idiocy, its like having their cake and eating it too. They want to be professionals, want to work and "become something" but they want their husbands to be the primary breadwinner still and if they aren't, and since most husbands won't take the deal of being house-husbands, which leaves their homes in a mess, these professional women just leave them! I have nothing against professional women, its just their arrogance that they want to have their professions, have a guy who is more sucessful than they are, but dont want to take care of the home or give up their professions to help out in raising kids.

Of course the Forbes article is getting a big reaction. All the Femmies have gotten so used to playing victim and hiding behind their gender as they take endless potshots at men.

Now someone comes along and points out what everyone pretty much knows is true..... self-centered, career-minded hemisexual b*tches don't make the best wives. The article didn't even say they made BAD wives, it just dared to suggest that men might be better off going for a regular, stay-at-home traditional kind of woman.

What happens? Endless discussion on blogs and feminist websites. I say "When someone starts squawking, you know you toughed a sore spot."

Rock

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Of course the Forbes article is getting a big reaction. All the Femmies have gotten so used to playing victim and hiding behind their gender as they take endless potshots at men.

Now someone comes along and points out what everyone pretty much knows is true..... self-centered, career-minded hemisexual b*tches don't make the best wives. The article didn't even say they made BAD wives, it just dared to suggest that men might be better off going for a regular, stay-at-home traditional kind of woman.

What happens? Endless discussion on blogs and feminist websites. I say "When someone starts squawking, you know you toughed a sore spot."

Rock[/QUOTE]I just have to say, being born and raised in America, that anyone who wants to or has an inkling to date/marry an American woman needs to be beat about the head with a heavy object. American woman are the most self centered, selfish, arrogant, conditional, pompous women anywhere and it's because of the media and the whole femme movement. Women in the USA forgot what is all about being a woman. None of them give 100% in a relationship because they are afraid to get hurt, be used, or taken advantage of. I will never date another american woman in my life. Asian women, by far, are the best. There is no substitute. Culturally they are much better at knowing what men want and need. Thank God for SE Asia.

Have you guys seen the response to this article from Forbes? The feminists are going ape-shit over it! I don't know who this Michael Noer guy is, but I gotta give credit where credit's due; this is one AM who hasn't yet surrendered his testicles to the Femi-nazis. Here's another article he wrote earlier this year:

The Economics Of Prostitution
Michael Noer, 02.14.06, 12:00 PM ET

Wife or *****?

The choice is that simple. At least according to economists Lena Edlund and Evelyn Korn, it is.

The two well-respected economists created a minor stir in academic circles a few years back when they published "A Theory of Prostitution" in the Journal of Political Economy. The paper was remarkable not only for being accepted by a major journal but also because it considered wives and *****s as economic "goods" that can be substituted for each other. Men buy, women sell.

Economists have been equating money and marriage ever since Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker published his seminal paper "A Theory of Marriage" in two parts in 1973 and 1974--also, not coincidentally, in the Journal of Political Economy.

Becker used market analysis to tackle the questions of whom, when and why we marry. His conclusions? Mate selection is a market, and marriages occur only if they are profitable for both parties involved.

Becker allowed nonmonetary elements, like romantic love and companionship, to be entered into courtship's profit and loss statement. And children, in particular, were important. "Sexual gratification, cleaning, feeding and other services can be purchased, but not children: Both the man and the woman are required to produce their own children and perhaps to raise them," he wrote.

But back to *****s: Edlund and Korn admit that spouses and streetwalkers aren't exactly alike. Wives, in truth, are superior to *****s in the economist's sense of being a good whose consumption increases as income rises--like fine wine. This may explain why prostitution is less common in wealthier countries. But the implication remains that wives and *****s are--if not exactly like Coke and Pepsi--something akin to champagne and beer. The same sort of thing.

As with Becker, a key differentiator in Edlund and Korn's model is reproductive sex. Wives can offer it, *****s can not.

To be fair, Edlund and Korn were merely building an admittedly grossly simplified model of human behavior in an attempt to answer a nagging question: Why do hookers make so much money? Prostitution is, seemingly, a low-skill but high-pay profession with few upfront costs, micro-miniskirts and stiletto heels aside.

Yet according to data assembled from a wide variety of times and places, ranging from mid-15th-century France to Malaysia of the late 1990s, prostitutes make more money--in some cases, a lot more money--than do working girls who, well, work for a living. This held true even for places where prostitution is legal and relatively safe. In short, streetwalkers aren't necessarily being paid more for their increased risk of going to jail or the hospital.

Notwithstanding Jerry Hall's quip when she was married to Mick Jagger, about being "a maid in the living room and a ***** in the bedroom," one normally cannot be both a wife and a *****. "Combine this with the fact that marriage can be an important source of income for women, and it follows that prostitution must pay better than other jobs to compensate for the opportunity cost of forgone-marriage market earnings," Edlund and Korn conclude.

Ouch.

Another zinger: "This begs the question of why married men go to prostitutes (rather than buying from their wives, who presumably will be low-cost providers, considering that they can sell nonreproductive sex without compromising their marriage)." Guys, nothing says "Happy Valentine's Day" more than "low-cost provider."

Of course, it's easy to pour cold water on some of the assumptions made in Edlund and Korn's mathematical model. But these so-called "stylized facts" are supposed to predict human behavior; they don't necessarily pretend to mirror it.

In particular, the assumption that there is no "third way" between wife and ***** is problematic, if not outright offensive: "The third alternative, working in a regular job but not marrying, can be ruled out, since we assume that the only downside of marriage for a woman is the forgone opportunity for prostitution."

Be sure to let all your married friends know what they're missing.

Also, the emphasis on the utility of children is puzzling. In most Western democracies, fertility rates have plummeted as wealth has increased. Empirically, men not only buy fewer *****s as they get richer, but they have fewer children.

Still, the economic analysis of marriage explains one age-old phenomenon: gold digging.

"In particular, does our analysis justify the popular belief that more beautiful, charming and talented women tend to marry wealthier and more successful men?" wrote Becker. His answer: "A positive sorting of nonmarket traits with nonhuman wealth always, and with earnings power, usually, maximizes commodity output over all marriages."

In other words, yes, supermodels do prefer aging billionaires. And Gary Becker proved it mathematically decades before The Donald married Melania.

[url]http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/2006/02/11/economics-prostitution-marriage_cx_mn_money06_0214prostitution.html[/url]

Man, this shit is like the fable "the Emperor's New Clothes". Someone decided to call the shit for what it is and those in power go apeshit because of said fact. Heh heh heh! It's like someone pressed a hot branding iron against he flesh of the Feminazis and ENJOYED IT! Yes, my bretheren, while enjoying this spectacle of revelation, I'm kicking my feet up on the desk while downing a large Coke and a bucket of popocorn!

I think that the American male in general has become more submissive and accepting of playing female gender roles. The stay at home dad is resented but increasingly common; and pegging is growing in popularity. Indeed it is not uncommon to overhear groups of women discussing how they pegged their husbands or boyfriends. So, the next time you see some guy with his wife or girlfriend and a pained expression on his face, there's a good chance that he is being pegged not only in the bedroom but in his wallet too!

[quote=chocha monger]...american male .. more submissive and accepting of playing female gender roles. .. and pegging is growing in popularity. ..not uncommon to overhear groups of women discussing how they pegged their husbands or boyfriends. so, the next time you see some guy with his wife or girlfriend and a pained expression on his face, there's a good chance that he is being pegged not only in the bedroom but in his wallet too![/quote]

[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peg[/url]
this is a term coined by sex advice columnist dan savage and his readers, referring to when a woman straps one on and buttfucks a guy.

savage also coined "santorum", the frothy mix of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord113][CodeWord113][/url] and lube that is sometimes the product of anal sex. named for senator rick santorum, a religious conservative wacko, charter member of the american taliban anti-sex league.

There've been lots of posts on this exact topic.

I remember one that was really good, where a member did some financial calculations based on a typical 10 year marriage ending in divorce. What with lawyers bills, losing half a house and support payments, it was calculated that you'd actually SAVE money if you paid $250 a pop for twice weekly visits by the sex-provider of your choice.

I've written plenty of posts myself as to how men and women's actions can be explained in simple economic terms such as supply + demand + competition. Edlund and Korn's analysis is interesting for sure, but they are simply expounding in technical terms (and greater detail) what most of us already knew a long time ago.

Women are not the emotional romantic creatures that they try to portray themselves as. They are very practical, calculating and pragmatic. The only reason they even bother to put this romantic spin on things is because.....
A. It serves their purposes.
B. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside while going after what they want.

I USED to think that it was us guys that were calculating. But that was back when I was young and naive.

Rock

Well done, young padawan! Revealed, the Dark Side you have. Forever vigilant must you be, or fall to its influence you will!

Hey Rock,

All along you thought you were the one doing the screwing but you were getting pegged, and hard! Ironic isn't it? Spent your whole life believing that boys were nasty scheming little creatures who passed every minute thinking about the best formula for pulling down the nice girl's panties. Dad was the bad guy keeping horny little Johnny away from his precious Peggy because he didn't want her getting knocked up. In reality he was just saving Johnny's little clueless ass from starting out his adult life paying child support.

I'll tell you something. In college the girls only talked about one thing during class breaks or group work, and that was getting married and knocked up but not necessarily in that order. More than half were preggers by the third year of school.

Guys

I am off to Pattaya in a few days. Maybe ye can help me with this question. Pattaya has more slappers per square inch than anywhere else in the world. The young hookers love all those innocent, kiddy type clothes, light pastels, teddy bears, Hello Kitty, Harry Potter stuff. Why do the world's most hardened hookers wear the world's most innocent clothing? What is in the female gene that gets them to camoflage their obvious fangs so much? Are they dreaming of a lost innocence? Is it a woman's thing or what?

[QUOTE=Martians]Guys

I am off to Pattaya in a few days. Maybe ye can help me with this question. Pattaya has more slappers per square inch than anywhere else in the world. The young hookers love all those innocent, kiddy type clothes, light pastels, teddy bears, Hello Kitty, Harry Potter stuff. Why do the world's most hardened hookers wear the world's most innocent clothing? What is in the female gene that gets them to camoflage their obvious fangs so much? Are they dreaming of a lost innocence? Is it a woman's thing or what?[/QUOTE]
Actually, it's a combination of things. One being that mongers tend to avoid hardened pros so a little sheep's clothing is necessary to draw them in to what they perceive to be an innocent lamb; once the she-wolf sets her fangs in the neck of the unsuspecting monger it's too late to attempt an escape. It's biological mimicry at it's best. Remember that females tend to be more efficient predators because they need more resources to feed the young. Pattaya is an environment rich in prey; herds of clues sex tourists provide much needed resources. One can pretty much call Pattaya the Asian Serengeti.

Another reason is that females are all fascinated with anything having to do with the young. It doesn't matter how hardened they happen to be kiddie stuff always gets oohs and aahs. Women don't fully grow out of certain aspects of their childhood mentality, perhaps it helps them relate better to the young during child rearing. Observe the similarity in a woman's behavior to that of a child when you tell her that she cannot have something she wants.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]There've been lots of posts on this exact topic.
I USED to think that it was us guys that were calculating. But that was back when I was young and naive.
Rock[/QUOTE]

...who are intensely focused on controlling and manipulating their husbands to stick with them, giving them lots of love, sex, happiness, and of course, money and material things.

Most husbands feel like a butterfly, caught in the strong web of a black widow, unable to get out, being eaten alive, piece by piece, everyday.

The black widow would never understand why the butterfly is resentful and deadly fearful of her. She feels strongly that she has the rights to entrap and to carve up her prey to fill her stomach, and she doesn't give a flying shit who's hurt and who will die.

One of my dear friends is caught in the web for a third time. However, this time there will be no escape. This black widow is more proficient than the others. She throws coil after coil of strong sticky silk around him binding him tightly as he trashes wildly to no avail like a common housefly.

I swear that I can hear his screams and desperate pleads for mercy above the crunching sound of chitin as her mandibles snip off pieces of his exoskeleton. Poor bastard! I told him he was flying too close to the web but he thought this one was different and grew over confident.

Two jobs, one day one night in order maintain her and the new kid in a gated community, new SUV, premium health coverage, full cable package, designer furniture, trips to theme parks etc.

[QUOTE=One Wing Low]...who are intensely focused on controlling and manipulating their husbands to stick with them, giving them lots of love, sex, happiness, and of course, money and material things.[/QUOTE]

I feel your generalization is most appropriate for North American women. It is nonsense for the majority of foreign women. I mostly know Latin women. I monger in Latin America and have had Latin girlfriends. There are LOTS of good, decent Latinas very available for marriage. Even the pros are decent women, at least the ones that I have been with.

There is another thread on marrying foreign women. I have mentioned this before a few times. Foreign women, on average, make much better wives than American women, on average. We KNOW this!!!! Complaining about AWs is not the proper, intelligent response to the woeful lack of marriage material in the US. Seriously looking for Latinas to marry IS the proper, intelligent response.

There are many agencies that cater to men looking for foreign, or specifically Latin, wives. Some are Latin Social Network, Latin Euro, All Colombian Girls, My Latin Rose, My Latin Flame, My Foreign Bride, Cali Charm, A Foreign Affair, Brazil Romance, Latin Encounters. I could go on.

Let's talk more about alternatives to AWs as wives and lovers, rather than continuing to harp on how awful they are. That horse is dead and stinking. It is time to get on and ride a better one.

George90,

You're right, we do a lot of complaining about AWs in this forum. But sometimes, it just feels so GOOD to vent all that resentment that builds up.

Don't sell the forum short! We cover a lot of topics as the weeks go by. There have been a ton of posts on the exact one you mentioned. Foreign wives ARE a superior option to the local girls. In fact, I went and got one for myself a while ago.

If you know what to look for, you'll probably see that tons of guys are doing this. Look around and, after a while, you will see what I like to call "The Disproportionately Hot Woman". That's what I call it whenever I see an ordinary guy with a reall hot woman. Often, there will be a noticeable age difference.... 10, 15 even 20 years or more. Also, these girls can be asian or latinas. Eastern europeans such as russians or ukrainian girls are a bit harder to spot be they're there. Just look for the tall slim blonde ones.

It's not always the case. Sometimes it's an AW who's still young enough to get suckered in for the Badboy/Rebel/Player type (yet another topic we lover to discuss). But lot's of the time it IS the case.

You mentioned LatinEuro. They have a section in their site complaining about IMBRA..... any new developments there?

Rock

at times, it can seem like beating a dead horse, but then again some stories come along that must be told. a case in point is the list of attributes one woman demanded must be met in order for a man to be to her liking. i won't go over it again, unless some of the fellow posters didn't catch it, in which case, i'll post it again and entertain them. it is a way to vent, and as long as it stays here and doesn't spill out into public where it can cause problematic interaction, then it's harmless. also, you may have noticed there are a lot of new posters to this particular board who find a common bond established by those of us who have been here for a while. it relieves them of the burden of reinventing the wheel, when all they have to do is to jump into an already established conversation and contribute their input. it's a matter of one's point of view; if you feel it's a dead horse being beaten, no biggie. gravitate to other pastures and godspeed. also, notice that there are times when someone offers one of many possible solutions that are quite valid, so, it's not all about carping about aw's.

I agree this thread has been very helpful to me in understanding the situation. Since I've been doing alot of traveing I can see first hand how all this information relates.
Plain and simple it's a good way to vent with people who have the same issues.

Yes, the horse is dead and the carcass is stinking to high heaven which is why we've got to keep putting the word out. Frustrated and disgusted American men are not a minority just a terrified non-vocal majority. Many more tales of horror abound on the net and many of these guys haven't even considered an alternative. Take for example the experience of a poster by the handle of CleanStarving, from Madison, WI. His story follows below in his own words:

"I am a 36 year old male experiencing the same issue. I like to be fair with both women and men.

I had been married for 8 years. Initially my wife and me had intercouse every day. Then I realized that she don't want it every day. In One year it reduced to once or twice in a week. Then I started jerking off when she is not available. Until she got employed we did it once or twice every week. After she got employed it became once every week.

Three years back we had our first baby. She didn't ask for an intercourse for three months. Then I encouraged and lured her into it. But she wants it only once in one month now. If I express my desire she will tell she will give it in the evening. In the evening she will tell she is so tired..can we try tomorrow?...and I got satisfied once in a month..no complaints from my side still...but I tried to lure her more which she took it as forcing and started threatening me...

She cut off me saying that I don't have any right to touch her without her agreement... I was little bit confused but still we had intercourse once in every 6 weeks...but I didn't had much freedom ---because she just wanted to do the things she wanted... she liked only one position and no explorations or variety were allowed...

But every time we had an intercourse she enjoyed it and I could feel it from her sound and her desire for more orgasm... But around 8 months back in october 2005 she started avoiding me totally... After three months of waiting I turned towards porn movies for satisfaction.. still being faithful for her...
One month back she started pulling things from past and started threatening me for the porn movies I am seeing. She didn't like it at all.

I wanted to be faithful to her. I haven't fucked anybody other than her in my life... now she wouldn't allow me to touch or even express my desires. She is OK otherwise... and she don't like me spending time with my baby...she comes and snatches the baby...The baby is doing healthy.. but I had to separate from my wife to avoid more problems. The seperation is for 6 months which my wife wanted. She says if I want to see the baby more than once in two weeks I can go to court and get permission.
But there is no legal separation..

I don't hate my wife. not even surprised... but everything happening here is a mystery for me... my wife is not telling me why I need to separate from baby and me... she says she needs 6 months to think whether she needs to continue marriage or not... meanwhile her conusellor contacted me and told me to work on my anger..."