American Women

Re-read my post. A guy doesn't even have to get a gal pregnant to get stuck with a child support obligation. True, that's not the norm, but, it IS indicative of where we are in this country.

Spike, out...

I don't think that is necessarily so. Marriage can work when there is a mutual understanding of the differences between and value of the contribution of each gender to the relationship. That is one of the reason's I am infatuated with Asian women. They are much closer to the "real world" as are their male counterparts. I have a pet theory; Asian women tend to be very focused on food (why aren't they fat??) because they are much closer to being hungry than American women are. Is that a good thing? No, I wouldn't say so, but, in OUR country, female independence has become almost malignant. In the good ole' U.S. of A., the male role has become superfluous. MEN are the anachronism, NOT marriage.

Give me someone who respects me and what I do every time. I have no interest in living with some gal who is doing me a favor by allowing me to be in her presence. I will respect, honor and love a woman who feels the same towards me, but I won't be caught dead (again) with any ***** on a superiority kick. BESIDES WHICH.... Asian women are physically so much more attractive to me.

Spike, out...

I'm not saying marriage can never work but what the fuck is the point of it, as opposed to just living together in an open-ended arrangement that doesn't require the legal system to get involved when one of the parties wants to move in a different direction?

If parties can split easily and equitably, then such arrangements can work well. But the truth is that a fair majority of breakups aren't necessarily either without children being involved or amicable, hence the courts and lawyers. From what I've read, four out of five marriages that end do so unilaterally, with one spouse deciding they want out and the other disagreeing. So there's going to be disputes over who owes who, assets, custody, etc. Since studies show that those who live together before marriage actually have a higher divorce rate, (haven't been able to track down a good stat on percentage of cohabitations that last or causes for failure) I'm not so sure the "go your separate ways" formula fits all either -- there's a big difference in the kind of breakup that happens when someone's been together for a year or two or for a couple of decades in terms of how easily people move on.

How do you stop a woman from having sex??????? YOU MARRIED HER.....

Yes in good old US of A women are not on par like women/Asian from the rest of the world. And one is more appreciated for himself, then how much he has in his pocket from overseas women.

Nevertheless, my best relationships here in the USA were with women I dated. When we were finish I go to my home and she goes to hers.Unless you are living in expensive New York or California areas, and you considering living together.

I remember seeing one of the morning talk shows and it featured a guy who got married to a chick who fucked around on him, had the kid and she didn't tell him it wasn't his until the kid was SEVEN YEARS OLD!! The husband then went to the courts with IRREFUTABLE PROOF (DNA test) that the child wasn't HIS, but the nut-less judge decreed that he must STILL take care of the kid until he's 18 AND (it gets BETTER) the BIOLOGICAL FATHER didn't have to shell out a god damned nickel toward child support, because the child was seen as being under the care of the STEPFATHER. The judge didn't even so much as fucking SCOLD the scheming ho of a mother! She spun the whole thing around by saying that he has to take care of the kid (financially) even though she got dicked by someone else! This case occured in Pennsylvania and what's so scary is that it's NOT an isolated incident!

As for marriage, the very institution HEAVILY favors women. Hypothetical situation: I get married to some broad who puts her best foot forward BEFORE the wedding and does a "Sybill' after the wedding. Where I would have been getting regular sex and a caring attitude BEFORE, I would be NOW getting it IF she felt like it when she's not in a pissy mood and IF she can get something MATERIAL out of it. ALSO, said broad would be entitled to HALF MY SHIT just by being a fucking BARNACLE and hanging on, but contributing nothing of worth to the relationship. After THAT happens, through the legal system, I effectively subsidize her lifestyle of nights on the town, new clothes on a VERY FREQUENT BASIS and fucking someone ELSE while I gotta grin and bear it. Two female coworkers recently asked me why I wouldn't get married. I IMMEDIATELY bit my tongue after I found myself about to blurt out a sanitized version of what I just told my bretheren here...

Sinanju-I didn't want to finish carrying the ball into the end zone there with "the search for bad boy schlong continues". It was good of you to do it for me. This has inadvertently tied back into our discussion about biological fatherhood of children. There is a whole lot of unsanctioned screwing going on after the girl has "landed the schlub" to foot the bills. This is essentially the heart of a primary issue-American Women absolutely refuse to "play fair" (in even making an exchange of their slightly used up asses for continued financial security), so they, find a way to "have their cake and eat it too", by procuring the unwitting sponsorship for their screwing around from said schlub.

Dickhead-I'm inclined to agree with you to some degree that marriage is an anachronism. I believe however that it does have some utility in in the desire to reproduce (it has been my experience that the single mommy model doesn't work very well, and some kind of permanent pairing is optimal). However, although I will someday probably want a child or two, I will never subject myself the life wrecking potential that is the American Marriage.

Which leads onto another topic:

Could one of you more learned and world travelled gentlemen let me know what marriage laws are like in some of our "hot spots" (Europe, South America, Asia etc)

your tongue. Tell them what the f*ck is going on! These women need to know this.

When all is said and done, I still believe marriage is viable for the right couple. The commitment can make for a much deeper relationship than that realized through a casual "dating" type of deal. Call me a sucker or a hopeless romantic; I don't think there is anything inherent in the female of the species that makes her impossible to live with after marriage.

I want to make a distinction here, though. I think marriage took a BIG hit when it morphed from a relgious institution to one that is licensed by the State. State licensing brings State control; hence the mindless f*cking screwing over that men are subjected to now through divorce, custody rules, etc.

My last marriage ended when my beloved B*TCH decided it was time to branch out and experience "variety" in life. Unfortunately for me, that variety included my best friend (among MANY others). Unfortunately for her, I ended up with custody, which happens for a man about 75% of the time when he contests it. The County wasn't up to the task, though, so I continued to have my pay checks attached, liens placed against my personal and real property... even my drivers license was revoked!!! This is while I have FULL custody!!!! It took 3 YEARS to get them off my back. Now, the B*TCH owes ME money, which I won't take. I love holding it over her, though. Stupid cow has gone on to another sucker, but she still owes me money. Someday I'll pull the string on her and she'll have to come up with "back pay", hopefully with interest!

But, I digress... the problem seems to me to be State control and interference, NOT the institution itself. Commitment in any relationship should be a good thing, but we are so far over a barrel now that women feel NO obligation to play fair in any way.

Spike, out...

I suggest that everyone here read a little book called The Moral Animal (look it up on Amazon. The Economist magazine called it the most important book of insight into humanity since The Origin of Species). It gives a very insightful analysis of how human nature has developed in response to the evolutionary demands of our ancestors. Basically it’s one of the first books in the new science of evolutionary psychology. I’m not saying evolutionary psychology explains everything or makes certain actions right (people are still very complex) but it’s starting to explain a lot of things we know about people. Guys like pretty, young girls because those are the girls who are most likely to have a lot of healthy babies with you. Girls like guys for a lot more reasons because guys had more ways of being successful – being a player, having money, power or fame. So each sex has a different strategy to be successful reproductively and sometimes these strategies come into conflict.

Divorce isn’t an anachronism. The whole idea of marriage to a single other person with monogamy is actually a relatively recent invention. But divorce makes a lot of sense in an evolutionary reproductive view. Anthropologist Helen Fisher has gathered divorce data from 62 societies around the world and founds that "human beings in a variety of societies tend to divorce between the second and fourth years of marriage, with a divorce peak during the fourth year". She also finds that the divorce statistics for the US in 1986 fit the same pattern, with most divorces taking place between the second and third year of marriage.

Fisher's evolutionary explanation attributes the universality of the divorce statistics to the "remarkable correlation between the length of human infancy in traditional societies, about four years, and the length of many marriages, about four years.” She concluded that, “The modern divorce peak--about four years--conforms to the traditional period between human successive births--four years....Like pair-bonding in foxes, robins, and many other species that mate only through a breeding season, human pair bonds originally evolved to last only long enough to raise a single dependent child through infancy, the first four years, unless a second child was conceived.” Incidentally, over 95% of marriages that don’t produce children in the first 3 years ended in divorce.

As for girls screwing every pretty boy punk they can find while they’re young, it’s just part of a strategy to maximize the chances of spreading their genes. Let’s face it, pretty/bad boy players get a lot the babes. They’re the most likely to have a lot of kids. Those genes are then most likely to get spread. The downside to having the pretty/bad boy as a father is that they usually make lousy fathers to the kids--that’s where marrying us nice guys comes in. The optimal strategy for the woman to spread her genes would be to have kids with the pretty/bad boys (who have the potential to screw a lot of people) but have a stable/nice guy who can provide a lot of resources help raise the brats. That 10% figure for kids not belonging of the father is correct but it’s much higher in many other areas. In the more urban areas of cities, that figure is actually 25%! Think how many girls get knocked-up by a player and then bed some schmoe the next week who then ends up raising that little bastard. Studies also show that the type of guy a girl finds attractive varies with her cycle. When she’s most fertile, she wants the bad boy player but just two weeks later it’s Mr. Nice who’s her favorite.

Guys shouldn't kid themselves about how many woman cheat. They are better at getting away with it because most of guys are working so damn hard. The figures I’ve seen says 55% of guys cheat on their wives while 25% of wives cheat on their husbands. (Heck, there’s this woman in the office who is so f’ing brazen about it. She’s Chinese and 1/4 white and has been married some white dude 8 years ago-don't assume Chinese women stay traditional in the US. I see her with her Chinese boyfriend of 9 years way more often than with her husband. She was so relieved when the baby looked like her husband.) Of course this info wasn’t known when almost all states enacted laws that say any kid born during the marriage belonged to the father. That’s true in most cases, but we didn’t have DNA comparison technology until very recently. Some of those laws might get changed if enough men with balls do something about it.

I also have a pet theory as to why American woman are such spoiled princesses. It's not just because we treat them so well in dating but it's because of how we raise them. Do any of you have daughters? I don't but I practically raised my sister. We want the best for our kids and that includes our daughters. We teach them to expect and demand the best both in terms of personal treatment and the rights they expect from society at large. (Title IX is only part of the proof.) Sometimes parents go overboard in this regard and the girl turns into a brat (but they probably would've been a b*tch anyway). I'm not saying that girls should have equal rights or be free to do what they want, I'm just saying that a percentage of spoiled women is the price we pay for that.

I don't mean to be insulting but I'll come out and say it. Some of the guys here are complaining about shoddy treatment from women do so because they're suckers, jerks or losers. Hell, I'm probably the biggest loser here. I never had a real girlfriend. I've got more issues than Newsweek because of the horrific physical and emotional abuse I recieved from when I was a kid till I was a teen. I've suffered suicidal bouts of double depression cause of all that stuff. Despite all that I still manage to put myselft through grad school but all that working and studying meant I'm still a virgin at 27. Which is why I've had to resort to "professional help" although I haven't gotten FS since it would probably just depress me further knowing that I had to pay for FS my first time). All the women in my life have only wanted to be friends but I don't blame them for anything--many have been supportive as friends. So on to my point: I've seen way more women abused and treated much, much worse than what guys here complain about coming from women. Much of it was eye-witness stuff because it was happening to my mom. (Hell, some of my depression stems from the fact that I'm the son of such an asshole.) Do divorce laws favor women too much? Yes but 75% of guys don't even pay any of the child-support they're suppose to. I'm sure that guys here have been unjustly screwed by women. I'm just trying to give some perspective as to why some good women are wary of men.

The only women I can't stand are the god-damn wh*res who constantly complain about not being able to find a nice guy. There are plenty around. I'm a nice, hard-working, smart, funny guy you wh*res keep saying you want to find before you go f*ck those drunk frat boys. For some reason women love to talk to me (as a friend of course) so I'm the one who always has to hear those complaints. Well not anymore you wh*res. You women are the gatekeepers of that vagina, you're the ones who should know what sort of pricks you're letting in. My reponse to every complaint in that regard will be, "You deserved it. You were stupid and you deserved to be played. What the hell else were expecting? Get away from me you wh*re. Don't expect me to be your fallback position. Find some other idiot to be your baby's daddy." I will no longer serve as an emotional ***** (check out [url]http://www.laddertheory.com/ratingsystem.htm[/url] for a definition of the term and to learn more about what women are really like) for my women acquiantances.

Re: All the recent posts.

This subject of marriage seems to be bringing out some very strong emotions in some of our WSG members. No exception here, but as I was reading some of these posts I decided to "step back" and think about what I was feeling.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to the idea of getting married. However, isn't it obvious that marriage isn't for everyone? Why even bother to get married anyways? Does one need to be married to get laid? For that matter, do you even need a girlfriend? For companionship? Maybe, but I get the same kind of commitment from a long-term girlfriend without the shitty (and legally-binding) hassles that come with being married.

Why are women somehow "better" when they're just your girlfriend? Maybe it's because they don't have that certainty that they've GOT you. Maybe it's because they still need you somehow.

On the flip side, it occurs to me that the best thing to do might be to let some other guy do the marrying. Then you could be the one to come along and fuck her while the other guy pays the bills. Not exactly my style, but hey..... this would probably work pretty good for some guys.

I've always held off on getting married myself precisely because of the things I've seem my best friends going through. The exact same things that have been discussed in all of the recent posts.

If I found the right girl I'd defintely go for it. However Sinanju brings up a pretty good point. Often, you never know for sure about someone until it's too late. If that ever happened to me, I think I'd just go back to doing what I do now and travel the world sampling the variety until I'm too old to get it up anymore. If it wasn't for wanting to have some kids someday, there'd be no reason why any right-thinking man would ever want to get married.

Rock

PS. Donald Trump, he may know business, but what a dumb fucking schmuck when it comes to women. I see he's looking to get married AGAIN.


PPS: And don't start yakking on about how he's got a pre-nup. She's still gonna take him for a bundle.

Same thing here in Texas, I read an article in Texas monthly about a bunch of guys that are still under court orders to pay child support for children they didn't Fater. The rational being "undue hardship on the single mother (fucker)" because in most of the cases the biological Father (sperm doner) couldn't be found. I wonder how long this situation would last if it were possible for the gender issue to be turned. Can you see a judge saying "Yes Ma'am the court knows you didn't bear this child however you must support it regardless." When pigs fucking fly!

Personally if I had found out that my son was not my biological child after a number of years I would have continued to pay regardless of the legal issues. Mine is an unusuall case, his mom was a a ***** before I married her (please don't ask me why I did, I was much younger and stupider) and a bigger ***** during the marriage but after the fact not so much. Probably because I didn't hesitate to tell her to shut up during a rant, hang up on her as needed and told her when she was being a ***** after we divorced.

Perhaps a lesson there.

We get along well, she never played access games and we never used my son as a weapon against the other. (If I would have gotten periodic blow jobs she probably would have been the perfect ex wife) So him neing my son is much more a relationship issue than a biological one.

The guys I feel for are those poor fucks that just thought they were getting some pussy and ended up paying WAY more than 150 pesos.

My 02

Who Cares #2,
A lot of the points you made that required stepping back for perspective -- I'll give you that. Don't get me wrong: I may spray venom regarding these b*tches who have no problem with displaying a confusing duplicity, but it's only 'cos I played by the rules for so long layed out by the parental units; treat women with respect, courtesy, blah blah blah... it only got me the role as "friend". Now, whenever I hear an attractive woman whine about her b/f, I just instantly cut her off by saying: "I'm not your girlfriend. I'm only interested in getting into your pants". That will stop that shit COLD. If the REMOTE possibility exists that said whining princess admires such cojones and acquiesces, so be it, but such a reply is intended to stop her from wasting my time.

As for your "nice guy" issue, I feel your pain. Whenever I'm in a social setting and I hear women whine about this bullshit of wanting a nice guy, I just wanna call them on it by asking if they've ever fallen for a guy they INSTINCTIVELY knew was WRONG for them. In the same breath, I want to ask them how many times they've turned down a guy that is level-headed, has a good job and is steady as a rock. More than likely, they don't have enough fingers and toes to count them.

Rock Dog,

Sometimes, I'm such a clueless bonehead that I experience a "Eureka" moment when I come out of it. Your idea of flipping it around and letting SOMEONE ELSE do the marrying (and harvesting the crop) while I plant the seed is utter simple brilliance.

The male bears 100% of the responsibility for contraception, as does the female. Yes, I know that adds up to 200% but if you are going to fuck someone you don't know very well, why would you believe her if she says she is on the pill, not at the fertile time of her cycle, surgically sterile, or whatever? I [b]am[/b] surgically sterile but constantly surprised at the number of women who are willing to believe me when I tell them this. Down here in BA, after about the fifth time you are with a woman she will usually suggest doing it without a condom and will tell you that you are the only one she is doing with that way. Yeah, right. Then in the US a lot of women, especially older ones, are insulted if you want to use a rubber, like you are implying they have some disease (which of course you are).

The bottom line is that if you fuck them and do so with no contraception, then you should pay to support the little bastard for 18 years. However laws saying that you are responsible for whatever kids are born during your marriage regardless of whether they are yours, are just another obvious argument against marriage.

New Bound asked =

[i][quote]If an American guy gets an American women pregnant, and they are not married-- can the guy be held liable for child support or other payments?[/quote][/i]

Joe already told you the Basic Answer = [b]YES!![/b] , but that's not even the whole story

If you are ever legally declared the father of some brat , the Federal and State Governments here will track you down like a common criminal for 18 yrs if you fall behind on your court·ordered payments

Every time you fill out a W-4 form for a job ; win a State Lottery Jack·pot ; recieve a Worker's Comp settlement ; win a Judgement in a state or federal lawsuit ; or any other way that brings you , money , and Big Brother together = your Social Security number will be run ; and any arrears you owe will be deducted automatically and forwarded to the kid's mom so she can buy drugs and booze

Usually you hear stories from the perspective of the guy getting screwed , like Joe's friend
But it works the other way , too =

One chick I know was divorced from a guy who always worked 'under the table' on the rare occasions he was sober enough towork at all . He never paid a dime of child support for his kids in over ten years ; plus he had moved to another state far away which made hounding him in Family Court nearly impossible

One day he got seriously hurt on the job and was laid up for over a year waiting for his Worker's Comp settlement [ his 'un·documented' status slowed the process down , but didn't matter in the end ]

With medical bills and lost wages , he was awarded over *** $$ 60,000 *** , but when he got the Check , it was for less than Ten Grand !! 'They' had dutifully deducted the Child Support he owed and mailed it to Momma , who promptly bought a new car and took a vacation to Hawaii ; while the guy ended up getting evicted and living in a home·less shelter !!

All this reminds me of a Joke =

Have you heard about the new Morning After Pill for Men ??

It changes your Blood Type !!

Your posts are excellent and the statistics you quote are eye-opening, but I come to a slightly different conclusion. I think the biological imperative for BOTH genders dictates the necessity of a strong partnership in child rearing way past the 4th year of life for the child.

I don't think a mother/child unit reaches optimum viability until the child attains the age of 10 years old, maybe more. This would be particularly true in a "primitive" society. Any earlier and the child would be too much of a burden on the survivability of the un-aided mother, thereby limiting her contribution to the gene pool. Marriage is simply a way of formalizing the bond between father and mother for the purpose of enhancing survival of offspring.

Marriage, as an institution, certainly favors the mother. It attempts to restrict and control the biological imperative of the father. That is why women (in the past) resorted to cooking, cleaning and readily/regularly available sex to keep their partners around after child birth. In historical societies where polygamy was the accepted norm, the oldest wife was traditionally the senior member of the household. It was common for a man to take a younger wife for purposes of sex (reproduction) while retaining the older woman as advisor and manager of the household.

From the male perspective, the biological imperative is to f*ck women and kill other men. Killing other men is easier when you have someone who will prepare a meal and tend to a nice warm place to eat it.

Raising children is easier for the woman if she has someone around who will kill other men. The limited reproductive capacity of a woman is best served when she can conserve what offspring she has until they reach a level of maturity sufficient to protect themselves. In the "old days" it was common for warriors to kill the offspring of their vanquished foes. From the male perspective, this limited competition in the gene pool, but it is NOT in the best interests of the mother because it was a waste of her limited "reproductive potential".

The problem in our modern society is that we no longer need men in the way we used to need them. WE have become unnecessary, at least in our modern society. Sure, there are still wars, and we still need to kill other men, but wars are now based on vague geo-political principles as opposed to the old "man to man" direct conflicts. Even worse, we are now allowing our women to fight for us!! Women thusly need us less and less (and so they are taught), are becoming more and more independent, and are therefore no longer restrained by any social or cultural boundaries. Men are still trying to do the same old thing with a shrinking pool of women who will appreciate it; women can now do anything with no negative consequence. Maybe that is one reason so many of us seem to favor women from less "developed" countries; those women are much closer socially and culturally to the time when a man was a valued commodity.

This is a theoretical "work in progress". Sorry for rambling.

Spike, out...

The Old Days, huh? Hm... Gee, I kinda like the idea of delivering a deathblow to my opponent's ribcage, watching the life ebb from his body and then taking his woman from the stunned village as my own for all to see!

Seriously though, the women who feel that they don't need men all eventually experience a moment of weakness. AND who is the FIRST one to start whining about not having any help raising the little rugrat when they fail to live up to their Superwoman ideal? WOMEN!

I've gotta admit, PZ, that reading your example of the woman who ended up raising two kids on her own for ten years while her ex basically drank and ignored any responsibility for the kids he produced didn't give me much sympathy for the guy and frankly made me feel she eminently deserved a new car and Hawaii vacation. The small percentage of guys who don't deal with it simply mess over the kids they produce by not taking proper care of them, which by extension ends up screwing me, as I'm part of society that foots the bill for someone else's messed up or deprived kids. The issue in child support is not the guy or the woman, it's the kids, and if you're not gonna pay for who you produce then either wear a condom, get snipped, or keep it zipped up.

I absolutely agree that men very often get screwed in the support and custody situation, (especially given one report I read says that 50% of divorced mothers see no reason for kids' continued contact with their fathers and 40% have interfered with visitation) but the truth also is that most guys step up to the plate -- 75% of fathers pay their child support (though about 24% of those aren't managing the full amount) and in the cases where there is some sort of joint custody the father is up-to-date on payments over 90% of the time, and it's close to 80% if the father has at least some timeshare. Low compliance (around 44.5%) happens when the father has no access at all to the kids. And of the women who don't get child support, 22% said it was because they didn't want it, and 14.5% said they didn't pursue it because the father wasn't able to pay. (Source of stats: Federal report "Child Support and Alimony," U.S. Department of Commerce and the Bureau of the Census.) Even in 60% of the cases where the father is behind in payments when the family is on public assistance, he's working to catch up.

And for what it's worth, non-custodial mothers totally default on support to the rare custodial fathers 46.9% of the time, compared to men's 26.9% default rate.

Intriguing stuff, Spike. Thanks.

JZ makes a simple, yet brilliant point in his recent post. Just take one or two precautionary steps and don't get the woman pregnant in the first place! What was it that someone once said? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

It's bad enough when they try to get their hooks into you just for living together for too long.

There was a post by Darius32 (I think that's his handle) where he mentioned having a woman in the Dominican Republic. He goes back and forth to visit. That's probably a good idea when you consider the potential cost of an unintended pregnancy. Lawyers bills, child support hassles and all that other crap for 18 years. I haven't worked out the numbers, but wouldn't it be cheaper to do it the way Darius is doing?

How much is the average support bill anyways? I was also wondering how they calculate it. it wouldn't surprise me if guys that earn more might get stuck with a higher payment.

Rock

Spike, thanks for the compliment. I think you’re looking at the viability issue a little wrong. Kids are surprisingly intelligent and adaptable. Today, in the Smoky Mountain trash dump in the Philippines, there are kids younger than 4 who can scavenge for food by themselves. The other problem is that I think you’re comparing today’s standard of what constitutes viability with what was required for viability during evolution in our ancestral environment.

As radical as this sounds, monogamous marriage is actually more beneficial to the average man. Consider how famous, wealthy, powerful people are for all intents and purposes, polygamous. They get as much tang as they want, whenever they want and if polygamy was legal, that would be a whole lot less women for the rest of us. Serial monogamy is the same thing; that is tang the rest of us aren’t getting. So monogamy actually forces the elite people that engage in that ‘hogging’ behavior to share potential wives with the rest of us.

Polygamy is actually better in some ways for women. Hypothetically, let’s rank 1000 guys 1 to 1000 and 1000 women from 1 to 1000. Number one guy gets number one girl (I know real life isn’t this simple but this is just a thought experiment). Now let’s look at girl number 100. If polygamy were legal, she could move up the ladder and say get guy number 5. She’s better off by having the 5th best guy available. Girl number five isn’t going to notice much of a difference in the resources she now has available but she’s only a little worse off. The one person who is royally screwed in this move is guy number 100. In our monogamous society, those moves up and down the ladder aren’t permanent. So the strategy for those predatory women is to get the baby of the alpha males and make him or some other schmoe pay. (So keep it under wraps folks for everyone's benefit.)

Polygamy is part of what’s wrong with the Middle East (that and they marry their cousins at a 50% rate in many countries), their supply of tang is so skewed, it has wrecked their whole culture and society. They’ve got people killing themselves and others to try and get some sex in the afterlife.

In California, child support is based on the percentage of time the child spends with each parent, then factored proportionately into the combined income of the two parents. The formula is set in stone and isn't adjusted unless there are chldren from other relationships involved (there is a "hardship" adjustment for the parent with these other children).

The system is fair in theory, but in practice, the court is much more likely to favor the mother in subtle ways. For instance, my ex works as a "hobby"; she doesn't care what she is paid, so she actually accepts pay CUTS with a smile! She doesn't want to work, so she manipulates the system to minimize her earnings. In my case, though, because I have 100% custody, a percentage of ANYTHING she makes goes to child support. I wouldn't take her money if I were starving, but I want the kids to have it and they won't touch it either.

So if you take WC2's last post seriously, the obvious solution is polyandry. However his math is interesting. If you assume each polygamous man gets the same number of wives, Number 1 guy will get gals 1 through "n" with "n" being the number of wives each guy takes, Number 2 will get gals #(n+1) through 2n, etc. leaving Gal #100 with guy 100/n. So if gal #100 can move up to guy #5 that implies 20 wives for each guy.

But I think what would happen, and does happen, is that guy #1 gets more wives than guy #2, who gets more wives than guy #3, and so forth. Now my question is: is this self perpetuating or self destructing? I mean, guy #1 will have more children than guy #2, who will have more than guy #3, all else equal. Does that mean that guy #1's wealth gets diluted more than guy #1000's, leveling the playing field? Or does it mean that guy #1's kids become the next generation's guy #1 through "x," with "x" being the number of average children and guy #2's kids become the next generation's (x + 1) through 2x?

The answer obviously depends on whether agnatic primogeniture, primogeniture, gavelkind, or partite inheritance (also known as partible succession) is being practiced. Since (male and not agnactic) primogeniture tends to be the norm in polygamous societies, we lean towards guy #1's first son being next generation's #1 and guy #2's first born being next generation's #2 and et cetera. And, all the younger sons are fucked. All the daughters are also fucked, both metaphorically and also actually by all the disenfranchised brothers and cousins.

Go to Colorado City, Arizona to experience the effects of this first hand. Primogeniture is really fucked and it ruined Ireland just as much as did the potato famine. Compare to France where gavelkind and partite inheritance (introduced after the French Revolution) led to improvements in horticulture and especially vinticulture (due to the need for increased efficiency brought on by the diseconomies of scale of smaller plots of land).

However, WC2's conclusion only tends to support the postulate that monogamous marriage is better than polygamous marriage, while failing to address the more trenchant question of whether marriage itself is worth a shit.

Dickhead,

I was being a little facetious in my last post. I just wanted to point out that no system is really perfect and wasn't really suggesting that we adopt any specific marital system. What I really wanted to talk about was how successful reproductive strategies of the past shaped our evolution as a species. Even if those various inheritence systems screws over the other sons and daughters, the point is that person is still producing a lot of sons and daughters and allows at least one son the opportunity to produce just as many. Each individual has to sort out how they want to live for themselves but I think we would all be better off if we understood how we developed. I know of several people with multiple 'wives' who have a dozen or more kids - my maternal grandfather has two wives, 14 kids and 20 grandkids and counting.

Consider that Ghengis Khan is one of the most prolific men in history. About 16 million men carry his Y chromosomes today, about .5% of the world's population and that doesn't include his daughters. Muhammad might have come close although he didn't conquer as much territory or women. [url]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/2/8/214236/6651[/url] Those are the type of people that we came from because those are the type of people who were best able to 'spam' their genes as widely as possible into the world.

But back to American women who are really no different than women anywhere else. They want the best mate possible but in the US the bar is set pretty high because we have a lot of media. Every girl is trying to get a Brad Pit, a Larry Ellison, or a Tom Brady. Girls in other countries also want an alpha male with a lot of resources but their perspective as to what a lot of resources and what constitutes an alpha male isn't as skewed as it is here in the US. Or rather, the average guy from the US might as well be as good looking as Pit and as wealthy as Ellison in comparison to some third world country girls' fellow male countrymen. Americans have more money, live in a nicer country, and are much more civlized (or wussified depending on your view) than guys pretty much anywhere else.

Hey there DH,

Please don't take this the wrong way but, that post of yours kind of left me more confused afterwards than I was before I read it.

Maybe it's just me but I had a bit of a hard time with this part...
"Number 1 guy will get gals 1 through "n" with "n" being the number of wives each guy takes, Number 2 will get gals #(n+1) through 2n, etc. leaving Gal #100 with guy 100/n. So if gal #100 can move up to guy #5 that implies 20 wives for each guy."

Also gavelkind, agnatic(agnactic?), I consider myself to possess a fairly extensive vocabulary and even I don't know what those words mean.

As for polygamy and polyandry, it seems self evident that if you assume a roughly 50/50 male to female ratio, for every guy that gets more than one woman, there will have to be another guy who won't be able to get one.
If you have polyandry the same thing will happen with all the unattractive women. Oddly enough, this isn't that far off from the situation that we currently have.

As for the first son of the first wife inheriting everything, it's a moot point since we don't have polygamy (or polyandry) here and likely never will.

A combination of these two systems would, in my opinion, lead to a free-for-
all with everyone desperately trying to hook up with the most desirable members of the opposite sex in great interlocking chains of matrimony.

As to the trenchant question regarding marriage itself, I do believe it's worth it. At least it is the first time you do it. After that, I consider it to be nothing more than a very expensive (and legally-binding) form of dating.

My 2 cents for today

Rock

ps. Maybe I can't have two wives, but how about hiring a couple of full-time live-in maids? Then I could bang them both all the time. That would be legal and a lot more un than being married. Does anyone here know of anyone who's tried this?

Joe Zop writes =

[quote][i]The issue in child support is not the guy or the woman, it's the kids, and if you're not gonna pay for who you produce then either wear a condom, get snipped, or keep it zipped up.[/i][/quote]

Your 'get snipped' comment leads me to tell the following Cautionary Tale

The Wise Monger always assumes that the P4P gals we deal with are thieves , liars and con artists
[ except for [b]RN[/b] , natch = she's a saint ]

But most amateur women will also take you for a ride if they can

Yours Truly 'got snipped' about 17 years ago ; and ~ 15 yrs ago I met this hot little blond through a business contact ; and we [i]really[/i] got along well and soon found our·selves drunk and in bed 'making the beast with two backs'

The subject of Contra·ception never came up = obviously I wasn't worried about it , and she didn't mention it either

[ Usually , when a woman freebie doesn't mention contra·ception , that means they're on The Pill .
Just *pray* that 'The Pill' isn't AZT !! ]

Well , Lo and Behold! About six weeks later , she calls me in a very distressed state and wants to meet me 'to talk'

At the meeting , she is tearful and upset , because she's [b]Pregnant[/b] !!!

I congratulate her , but just delivering that News wasn't the Real Reason she wanted to see me

The Real Reason , it turns out , is that she wants $$$$ to pay for an Abortion , which she insists she can't afford

My turn =

"Uhhhhh... I'm very sorry you feel that way about your Baby , but I had a vasectomy three years and so can't possibly be the Father and so I hope you'll forgive me for not contributing to your Abortion Fund . I'd recommend you talk to the Real Father and hit [i]him[/i] up for some Cash "

Man , the look on her face at that point was [i]price·less[/i] !!

Even though 'that Look' made me suspect that I had just narrowly dodged a Scam , I ultimately chalked that one up as a Real Dilemma for the gal . But then two years later the Exact Same Scenario happened !!

It was only then that I realized for sure that there is a sub·set of women con·artists who seduce guys and then extort money from them using this 'Preggers Scam'

A woman doing this only a few times a year can easily afford a Jaguar instead of a Chevy Escargot ; not to mention the mental satisfaction a good Con Artist always feels when they've successfully fleeced yet another Sucker

If you're a parent, you must pay your fair share. It's not about the ex, it's about the kid, who didn't ask to be put in the middle of any dispute you may have with your ex.

Unfortunately, the parent who has custody winds up being the administrator / manager of any child support payments that they receive and sometimes, the parent uses the money to buy something for theirself rather than the kid. I still say this is not a reason to stop paying, but rather ammunition to use against the ex whenever you go back to court for a child support/custody hearing.

Spike,

A couple of posts back, you mentioned that you "refuse to accept" any child support payments from your ex but also mentioned that somewhere down the road you might take her to court to get all the back payments in a lump sum - GOOD LUCK! If she ever made any attempt to pay you (and she has documentation) & you refused the payment, I'm pretty sure she could use that one refusal as grounds for never paying. At best, I think the court would make her start paying from the time you started asking her to pay, but back pay may be out of the question due to your refusal of an attempt at payment. She would of course, need a good lawyer.

Happy Holidays everyone,

CW

Gavelkind is when all the sons share equally in the estate. Agnactic primogeniture is when the oldest child gets everything whether that child is male or female. Traditional primogeniture is when the oldest son gets everything. Partite inheritance is when all the kids, both male and female, share equally.

Gavelkind was the norm in England prior to the Norman conquest. After that they went to male primogeniture. The effect of this is to leave the large landed estates intact, strengthening the gentry class (or at least not weakening it). When France went to partite inheritance in the aftermath of the Revolution, this meant that every time a patriarch (or matriach) died, the land got divided up and that led to agricultural diseconomies of scale. The French responded by increasing their efficiency to compensate (all though some may feel that "French efficiency" is a bit of an oxymoron, especially those who have ever owned a French car).

While the US does not have primogeniture, there is still a bias towards it. The eldest son is the most likely to inherit the family business or the family farm, for example. So, [i]to tie it in to the subject at hand[/i], he can command a premium in the marriage market. Also it often happens (more so in other countries, but it still happens in the US) that the family runs out of money to educate the younger children. That happened in my own family. The effect of primogeniture, whether explicit or implicit, is to increase the level of social and economic stratification.

Economic status is relative of course, and whereas in the US I was not wealthy enough to interest too many women, down here they are throwing themselves at me right and left in hopes of gaining financial security. Lots of luck, ladies!

BTW I actually had a woman go so far as to sue me for paternity, even though I am vasectomized. I let the (prohibited word) waste money on lawyers and court costs and then I showed the medical records and up to date lab results. It was great.

I've got a friend who was hit twice by abortion requests and found a great way to defuse things: he said he would pay the clinic directly when they went there, as of course he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to let her go alone. His take was that in the event she really was pregnant he was also cutting down worrier for the future. In one case it was a scam that quickly fell apart and in the other he ended up at the clinic (and a few weeks later back in bed, this time with a condom, with the same woman, who felt he was "emotionally supportive.")

On the other hand, folks here are always bemoaning the fact that it's a pain to get AW to have sex without prolongued hassle, so if you [i]do[/i] find someone who will do so easily I suppose it shouldn't be a major surprise if another guy finds her as well. If a girl's going bareback these days she's asking clearly not someone who worries a lot about the possibility of future bad news.

PZ, given that the "pregnant scam" is a time-honored way of generating marriage, I guess it's no surprise it's also used for economic gain.

[QUOTE=Cash Works]If you're a parent, you must pay your fair share. It's not about the ex, it's about the kid, who didn't ask to be put in the middle of any dispute you may have with your ex.

Unfortunately, the parent who has custody winds up being the administrator / manager of any child support payments that they receive and sometimes, the parent uses the money to buy something for theirself rather than the kid. I still say this is not a reason to stop paying, but rather ammunition to use against the ex whenever you go back to court for a child support/custody hearing.

Spike,

A couple of posts back, you mentioned that you "refuse to accept" any child support payments from your ex but also mentioned that somewhere down the road you might take her to court to get all the back payments in a lump sum - GOOD LUCK! If she ever made any attempt to pay you (and she has documentation) & you refused the payment, I'm pretty sure she could use that one refusal as grounds for never paying. At best, I think the court would make her start paying from the time you started asking her to pay, but back pay may be out of the question due to your refusal of an attempt at payment. She would of course, need a good lawyer.

Happy Holidays everyone,

CW[/QUOTE]It's a legal principle called equitable estoppel. If you refuse the right to receive payment (technically it's the child's money) then not only would the mom not have to pay, but theoretically the court could order you to make-up any potential difference since you're essentially mishandling the child's right to the money.

All this talk reminds me of when I was channel surfing and I came upon Reno 911 (I THINK that's what it's called) and a female officer got knocked up. One officer asked another who the father was and the guy looked around for a phone book. He couldn't find one, but he said: "If there was a phone book here, just pic a page and you'd probably find the father". I laffed HARD at that one.

DH's patience to pull off that HILARIOUS bombshell (IN COURT NO LESS!!) that eventually exposed the plaintiff as a gold-digging ho is a CLASSIC! He HAD to have strutted around the rest of the day with a large grin on his face thinking: "IN YOUR FACE, B*TCH!!"

GawwwDAMN!

My face turned red when I saw those last few posts. That almost happened to me back when I was 21 years old. This girl I'd been screwing came after me shortly after we broke up. She had this friend who was a total C*nt from hell.

I used to have a job at a fast food joint and one night the friend phoned me up while I was working. She told me that so-and-so is pregnant and if I didn't want to be a father and get stuck paying support, I'd have to cough up the bucks to pay for her abortion. I was young, stupid, and scared shitless... so I did the dumbest thing imaginable. I told her the exact truth. "Where am I supposed to get money for that?" I said, " I just work at this craphole for minimum wage and I haven't even got fifty bucks right now!"

Well, I guess that must have worked, because I never heard from her again. I saw my ex-girlfriend about a year later and there was absolutely no mention at all about any pregnancy or abortion or anything. It wasn't until I read Joe Zop and PsyberZ's posts that I realized that they tried the same thing on me.

WSG, who knew it could be so educational?

Rock

ps. Dickhead, thanks for the extra info. It helped make a lot more sense out of your previous post. With that word agnactic, I might just be the new scrabble world champion :).

This happened here in my own neighborhood in Warwick

One of my friends , a guy we affectionately call [b]Rusty Scupper[/b] , threw this big Christmas Party for all the neighbors at his Georgian manse

At the party , as will happen at these affairs , Vino led to Veritas and one of the younger of the couples began bemoaning their lack of a Child ; and how medical testing determined that it was a problem with the Husband that was to blame

Some·one suggested Artificial Insemination ; some·one else suggested Rusty him·self be the Donor

Rusty is very wealthy and successful and would generally fit any·one's definition of an 'Alpha Male' , so the couple approached him about it

"Okay" , Rusty sez "But none of that 'artificial' stuff... it's gotta be done the 'old·fashioned' way to work right" .
Yeah , Right... the woman was a little Hottie , and I'm sure that had some·thing to do with Rusty's 'Logic'

The Couple agreed , and the next time the woman was ovulating [ it's very easy to determine this ] , the husband took a Loooong Walk and Rusty dropped by to 'do his duty'

The woman did Not get pregnant , though ; so a 'date' was arranged for the following month .... and then the next month ; and then the next

After six months of this Plan not working , the guy got really depressed

He was in a Bar with some mutual friends of us all , and sez =

" I just don't under·stand why this isn't working "

One of the friends says =

" May·be it's because Rusty had a Vasectomy twenty years ago "

... which he had , in fact !!!

Boy , would I have loved to be a fly on the wall the next time those three got together !!

GREAT post, Dr. Math!! The missing link, though (alluded to by WhoCares in his follow up) is the varying definition of "Alpha Male". There are many standards by which a male human can be adjudged worthy by a female of the species and WC lists many of them, but, as is the case with Ghengis Khan (pronounced "jengis" if you are a democrat), the ultimate selector isn't what a woman wants. The cold harsh biology is that the dominant male will be most successful.

Males in civilized society simply aren't killing each other off as much as they used to. That is the ultimate biological selector; the less capable are killed by the most capable, and the most capable spreads his genetic material to as many women as he can get his hands on. This is the biological imperative.

but my ex has never made any effort to pay anything. She was only too happy to take MY money, but now it's like she's never been to court.

You may be right about her avoiding future payment, but not for the reason you think. There is still a great institutional bias against men in the system, even though the system is supposed to be fair. I can document cases of men who have actually PAID child support directly to the "little woman" only to have to pay again because the court wasn't happy with the form/timeliness/documentation of such payments. I have never heard of this happening to a woman.

Who Cares: Legal principles aside, I suspect things may be different in different jurisdictions. I have never actually REFUSED payment, certainly not through the courts, but she just hasn't made any. In my county, support payments are collected through the Family Support Department. All payments go through them upon request of the custodial parent. I've just never requested it. Also, support payments aren't treated like any "normal" indebtedness. Because the money actually belongs to the minor child and is only adminstered by the custodial parent, there is no statute of limitations and no penalty for misappropriation of those funds. By definition, the custodial parent is assumed to have the best interests of the child/ren at heart. That was the state of the law locally as recently as 5 years ago. It may have changed, and it is always subject to judicial "interpretation".

[QUOTE=Who Cares #2]It's a legal principle called equitable estoppel. If you refuse the right to receive payment (technically it's the child's money) then not only would the mom not have to pay, but theoretically the court could order you to make-up any potential difference since you're essentially mishandling the child's right to the money.[/QUOTE]

The child is the one who has the right to the money, even when he turns 18 if not paid he or she can sue to recover.

The wrong of one parent, in not collecting or going after the child support is not imputed to the child and does not bar an action on the child's behalf, whether by the custodial parent, a governmental agency or whomever has a right to reimbursal or collection.

The court would have no reason to order a custodial parent to make-up what the other parent was ordered to pay. Where did you get this lame-brained idea? The judge could only order the payor to pay, either to the custodial parent or the child (if over 18) or any welfare agency that paid to support the child during his minority, for reimbursal.

Furthermore, a custodial parent cannot waive or give up the child's right to support. It is a right vested in the child and can be enforced by anyone who has the parental right to do so, or the child himself after age 18.

Every guy who's interested in picking up chicks for a 'freebie' is familiar with the concept of the 'Wing Man'

There have even been Beer commercials dedicated to this self·less soul ; and every guy is Duty·bound to take on the role of Wing Man at least once at some point in his life

The down·side of the Wing Man is = every chick out there is *also* familiar with the concept , and they immediately see right through it

So now comes the WING WOMAN , and you can even hire her for the evening !!

[URL]http://www.wingwomen.com/NewYorkTimesArticle.html[/URL]

Actually , this concept isn't new = back in the day when my brothers and I used to hit the Singles Scene , we used to always drag our sister along for this very effect

My sister , who we affectionately call [b]FELLATIA[/b] , is a stunning blond who has been compared to many famous actresses & models , but who is a real döppelganger for actress / singer Susan Anton , [i]always[/i] broke the ice for us with chicks we'd end up meating [ and No , that last word is NOT a mis·spelling ]

Now , the concept of *hiring* a Wing·Woman seems bizzare to Yours Truly =
if yer gonna pay a woman , why not just make it a P4P deal with a Pro and skip the middle·man , and all the extra Time and Effort involved ??

And why should you have to pay a Wing Woman ?? You know how women are always wanting to be 'friends' ?? [ And I don't just mean women you've dated who've broken up with you ; I mean women in your day·to·day life ]

Cultivate and Cherish these 'friend·ships' , Gentle·men , for Two Reasons =

First : she may eventually introduce you to some·one you really want to get it on with , and

Second : this 'friend' can be invited out —— preferably not just the two of you ; but in a group ——to prowl the Club and Bar scene , with her serving as your very own , *free* Wing Woman

Heck , she's an 'Equal' , Right ?? So make her pay her own Cover Charges , and take her turn in the Rounds of Drinks rotation , too

And at the end of the night , Don't forget to tell her what a Great Friend she is = especially if she's your Designated Driver

[QUOTE=Npaul]The child is the one who has the right to the money, even when he turns 18 if not paid he or she can sue to recover.

The wrong of one parent, in not collecting or going after the child support is not imputed to the child and does not bar an action on the child's behalf, whether by the custodial parent, a governmental agency or whomever has a right to reimbursal or collection.

The court would have no reason to order a custodial parent to make-up what the other parent was ordered to pay. Where did you get this lame-brained idea? The judge could only order the payor to pay, either to the custodial parent or the child (if over 18) or any welfare agency that paid to support the child during his minority, for reimbursal.

Furthermore, a custodial parent cannot waive or give up the child's right to support. It is a right vested in the child and can be enforced by anyone who has the parental right to do so, or the child himself after age 18.[/QUOTE]I wrote my last post very badly. Everything you say is right about it being the child's money and I was actually trying to emphasize that point since it appeared that the other poster was playing games and messing around by not accepting the ex-wife's money. My friend's uncle screwed himself over by refusing the ex-wife's money. He told his ex-wife that he didn't need her money and that he would pay all of their children's expenses. He did pay for everything but later when he was having financial difficulties, he then wanted the ex to pay him back for all the money he had shelled out. She argued equitable-estoppel and the court sided with her. The point I was actually trying to make is that if you don't accept the ex's money and later the ex can't pay-up, the kid might be able to sue you for the money. Of course it all depends on the law in your jurisdiction.

Guys, don't scoff at Psyberzombie's suggestion. The "wing woman" concept has been used quite a few times, and to great effect. Hell, I still use it myself (when I get the rare chance to do it), and it (almost) never fails.

If you think about how women (especially American women) think, then you'll understand why it works: if they see a dude out with some hottie, then they seem to come to some conclusion that this guy is, in some way, desirable. I've seen the same effect with guys wearing fake wedding rings (me knowing damn well they're not married). For these women it's as if seeing that some chick actually "wants" you makes it okay for them to think of you as a decent catch. In my part of the world the term for this phenomenon is called "social proof" (as in the girl on your arm somehow "proves" that you're not some undesirable dork).

I know all of this sounds odd (and maybe a little dumb), but I've seen this shit actually work with my own eyes. Repeatedly.

Besides, when have you ever known females to be completely rational?

or lack thereof:

"Their latest escapade concerns Viola Trevino, who discovered she could obtain a child support order against a man without the inconvenience of actually having a child. Steve Barreras was forced to pay $20,000 for a child that, it turns out, never existed. Barreras protested for years and produced documentation that no child could possibly exist, but he was ignored by New Mexico's Child Support Enforcement Division. 'The child support system in this state is horrible,' an Albuquerque woman tells a reporter. 'A woman can walk into their office with a birth certificate and a ‘sob’ story and the man on that birth certificate is hunted down and forced to pay child support.' Yet the agency – which ironically claims to be keeping an eye on other people's parental 'responsibilities' – claims they were not responsible for the shakedown of Barreras, because they were 'merely enforcing child support already ordered by a judge.' No automatic provision requires the return of the fraudulently ordered payments, so to recover his money Barreras must hire more attorneys and sue.

"Though officials try to dismiss such shenanigans as aberrations, they proceed logically from the child support system, which was created by lawyers and feminists not to provide for children but to plunder fathers and transfer their earnings to other grown-ups. In an increasingly typical decision, a Massachusetts Appeals Court ruled in November that a mother could collect full child support from two men for the same child."

See link for the rest of this story: [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/baskerville6.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Who Cares #2]The point I was actually trying to make is that if you don't accept the ex's money and later the ex can't pay-up, the kid might be able to sue you for the money. Of course it all depends on the law in your jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for your clarification. However the point I was trying to correct, and that you do have wrong, is that THE KID WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SUE THE CUSTODIAL PARENT FOR THE MONEY. To have a cause of action in the courts, there must be a statutory basis, a contract or a tort, or a prior court order that established the right to support from the parent WITH custody. It would be an abuse of discretion for the court to order a parent with custody to pay the other parents child support. If this is the fiction or fear that you are trying to create and it is not consistent with law or equity.

Here's the only possible situations I could think of where a bizare result could occur:
1. Custodial parent denies visitation, thereafter Judge erases the other parents duty to support for that period of time. (this was the traditional way of thinking but no longer. the judges will simply give the other parent extra visitation to compensate for the lost contact)
2. The child is kidnapped by the custodial parent or someone else and the payor parent cannot pay (impossibility to perform) In this situation the judge might erase some of the unpaid support. However the payor child would have to go before the judge on his initiative to stop the child support from continuing and not "sleep on his rights" and wait and use it as a defense later.

But remember also that child support is a vested right of the child, and wrongful actions in denying visitation are not to be offset by also denying the child his or her support money. The two are no longer linked like in the past.

The wrongful actions of the payor parent would never be imputed to the custodial parent, so the custodial parent would be ordered to pay child support. If so it would be reversible error.

[QUOTE=Npaul]...It would be an abuse of discretion for the court to order a parent with custody to pay the other parents child support. If this is the fiction or fear that you are trying to create and it is not consistent with law or equity.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry for confusing the issues. It just seemed to me that there are so many bizarre and unjust results out there that I just assumed this to be a theoretical possibility. Just a few years ago, I never would've believed it if someone told me that smokers could sue tobacco companies and win but those people are now billions of dollars richer...

I just read that Westley Snipes had an arrest warrant issued against him because some woman wanted a sample of DNA to prove that he was the father of her child but he had refused. This same mentally ill crack user had previously made false claims against half a dozen other celebrities in several other states. As that woman and Viola Trevino proved, you don't need a basis in reality to make the law work for you.

Spike,

Paying child support for a kid that doesn't even exist? Yet another sign that the end times are upon us.

It would have been worth a good laugh, except for the part where the poor SOB has to go to court AGAIN to get his money back.

It's hard to believe that a scam like this could actually work.

Rock

I beg to differ...

The court doesn't HAVE to issue an order for Family Support Division to attach wages and/or sue. I was billed child support for THREE YEARS while enjoying full custody of my two daughters. The courts will look the other way rather than challenge FSD. It is a very tight knit group, and they all know each other. The mechanism works this way: 1. Ex wife goes on welfare. 2. FSD collects money for child support from father to reimburse county for welfare paid out. 3. Family Court covers for FSD because it means money in county coffers. By the way, this was CHILD SUPPORT, NOT alimony! Believe me, I know the difference.

I had my car registration renewal refused and actually had my drivers license suspended WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE (I found out when pulled over for a broken turn indicator; I missed a very important business meeting that probably cost me a couple thousand dollars. The cop damned near impounded my car!). FSD proceedures are very much like all of the (unconstitutional) property forfeiture laws now being enforced against suspected drug dealers (and mongers in some jurisdictions)... it is a system run amok with absolutly NO checks and balances.

You may be right about the court not ordering the custodial parent to pay child support, but... in my experience, the court can do whatever it wants to do. In California, the review/appeal process for a Family Court decision is almost impossible; higher courts as a rule don't like to get involved with the mess that is Family Law. The court didn't rule as such in my case; I had custody and there was no support issue, but FSD just went ahead IGNORED the court order giving me custody and continued to pursue child support for my dead-beat ex. The welfare department was paying her as if she had children living with her, and FSD, by damn, was going to have the county reimbursed! If you don't believe me, I can pm you with my attorney's name and phone number. All you'll have to do is pay his $275 hourly fee for the one hour minimum consultation.

By the way, I just finished reading your post. Are you a lawyer? If so, what jurisdiction? You are spreading some very inaccurate information. See my last post. Parents (almost always Fathers) are regularly screwed by FSD with the court's acquiescence or approval. I went to Famly Court once and waited for one of my many "hearings". I'm dressed up in my standard business attire, nice suit and tie. A scrungy looking bum type comes and sits next to me and starts talking about his case. I'm thinking "Shit, why do these losers always sit next to me?". He goes on and on about his new job, how he is finally making $10 per hour, the most he has ever made in his life(!). He tells me his wife left the county, he doesn't know where she is, and he hasn't seen his kids for two years. Now I'm starting to listen.

Before actually appearing in front of the judge, FSD attorneys "conference" with the "defendants" to try to stipulate for the purpose of saving the judges time (judges don't like to work very much). I was sitting there, so when the FSD guy came to talk to my new "friend", I heard the whole thing. The upshot was, my "friend" wasn't going to see his kids because there was no obligation to tell him where his ex was living. She was on welfare, and they were getting her checks to her, but they wouldn't tell the father where the kids were. Not their problem the FSD attorney explained. What FSD WAS worried about was the arrearage. It seems that my new "friend" owed (sit down now, and hold onto your hat) $55,000 in back support!!!!! This from a guy who was just now making $10 per hour!!!! When the victim said that it would take him 30 years to pay it all off, the smart-assed FSD attorney said: "Just consider it to be a house payment, but without the house". I damned near reached over and slapped that son-of-a-*****!! I was being dragged through the same pile of shit, but I at least had the money to pay the f*cking leaches.

Get real, N, your theory sounds good, but you ain't living in the real world, at least not in MY neighborhood!

I do tend to get obsessive about this topic.

You wrote:

"1. Custodial parent denies visitation, thereafter Judge erases the other parents duty to support for that period of time. (this was the traditional way of thinking but no longer. the judges will simply give the other parent extra visitation to compensate for the lost contact)"

I could find a dozen cases, RIGHT NOW, in which arbitrary denial of visitation by the custodial parent DOES NOT REDUCE THE SUPPORT OBLIGATION. If you EVER go to court and explain that you aren't paying because you have been denied visitation, you will offered two choices: 1. PAY UP, or... 2. GO TO JAIL. No disrespect, and I don't want to start a flame war, but you are WAY off base. I KNOW what happens in California, and I have been in contact with a couple of Father's Rights groups who confirmed that this kind of thing DOES happen all across the country, ALL THE TIME.....

Don't count on logic or the law to save you from the child support scam. In my experience, NOBODY wields more power on the local level than a Family Court judge and their henchmen at Family Support Division.

Spike, out....

A guy walks into a lawyer's office and says, "Can I ask you two questions for a thousand dollars?" The lawyer says, "Sure, what's your second question?"

PsyberZombie and Smut Villian are absolutely correct. Wing women work much better than wing men. Women are much more apt to trust the opinion of another woman regarding a man than they would be to trust that man's male friend. Having a woman friend basically says to other woman that you've been vetted by another woman and been found to be somewhat worthy. It also conforms to the evolutionary psychology theories I touched upon earlier. Woman want a man who can be prolific. If you already have women with you, you're signaling to other women that you already have a good start in that area. Of course there are a lot of strategies to finding a good mate and to mating in general, so not all girls will respond to this. But any signals you can send to potential mates that you are a good catch will help you.

The only good thing about having a lot of girl friends is that they can be useful as wing women. While the girls I'm friends with are often as dorky as I am, they still get me more dates than I can by myself. In fact the only time I've gotten bump-n-grind dances, phone numbers and dates at clubs is when my girl friends bring in other girls to meet me. I suppose I should make more use of them since I've helped them out so often.

Spike, I'm going to defend Npaul a bit and say that he's right about there being no basis in law for a person to be forced to pay the other spouse's child support obligations. He said for a judge to order it would be an abuse of their power. But going with your experiences and what I've witnessed, judges and FSD abuse their discretion all the freaking time. It's just another reason to be careful.

You are absolutely right. Thanks for helping me regain perspective. Npaul IS corrrect, and he is making a statement about the way things are (should be). I missed that point, sorry, by being so wrapped up in my own involvement with the pirates in question.

The FSD and Family Law Courts,and my experience with both of them, have been one of the few areas in my life where I felt totally and completely powerless. They are abusive and beyond any reason or comprehension. I guess I let my bitternes get the better of me.

Npaul, I apologize if my post was too harsh.

Happy New Year to all!!

Spike, out...

The wingwoman concept is an interesting one. It illustrates a profound difference between women and men in the way they think.

Think about it. Let's say you see a woman in the bar or at some social event. She's with a fairly good-looking guy, or even a couple of guys. Most of us would look, and think to ourselves "She's probably taken, ah well just keep looking".

Now, if we are to believe the wingwoman concept, women think a completely different way. The woman sees you with some good looking women and thinks "wow, that guy has those girls with him.... he must be interesting". I guess it makes sense if you think about it. I would have thought that they'd suspect you were some kind of player, but I guess that's not how the female mind works.

In fact, that might be a really good explanation why so many women DO fall for players all the time.

Rock

Rock Dog notes =

[quote][i]Now, if we are to believe the wingwoman concept, women think a completely different way.[/quote][/i]

[i]Of course[/i] women think completely differently than men do , R•D

You noted this your·self over the 'Morality of Prostitution' Board when you wrote that women are looking for 'value' in the men they have sex with ; whereas men just want to have their jollies with a hot young babe

Any·one with any inkling about Human Nature knows that women value Power and Wealth while men value Youth and Beauty

So when you see a beautiful young woman with another guy , you take it to mean that some other guy has already snapped her up

.... but when a woman sees YOU with another woman , that means you've already been 'vetted' for Power and Wealth ; and that you must have some even if it isn't apparent to the naked eye ; and that there·fore you are a better 'target' to zero in on than some poor schlub who's standing there with his buddies , none of whom seem to able to get a date

One other thing about this 'Wing Woman' Concept =

Once the ice is broken with a chick , it's up to you to now convince her that you're the Alpha Male she's been looking for

My brothers and I frequently 'dress down' and even though I own a tuxedo and even wear it on formal occasions , my usual 'uniform' consists of Hawaiian shirts or long sleeved tees ; Jeans or khaki shorts ; and sandals or boat shoes [ or boots in the snow ] . So I don't look wealthy or power·ful , but I *must* be , or I wouldn't have this gorgeous blond chick [ my sister] hanging around , now would I ??

It doesn't take more than a few minutes of conversation for a chick to figure out that in fact we all are doing pretty well ; and then her attention turns to my sister Fellatia = usually some comment like : " Doesn't your friend there mind you talking to me ?? "

My answer : " Who , Fellatia ?? She's not my friend ; she's my sister "

That [i]always[/i] kicks my new companion in·to the next gear = she figures she better 'lock me in' before some·one else can

This Wing Woman Concept *really* works , Gentle·men , so I recommend you use it while you're still young enough to get away with it [ when you reach my age , the only ones it still works with are the Gold·Diggers , although they can be 'loads' of fun , too ]

Yes, I would be more likely to talk to a man who had women in his group - but it's nothing to do with power, money or trying to steal another chicks man. Noticing that he has girls in his group tells me, among other things, that:
a) He's probably not a sexist pig that only feels comfortable going out with 'the boys' and he obviously treats women well enough to have collected a few female mates,
b) He's probably not a pervert or sleaze, because other women feel safe around him, and
c) He's probably not violent and/or obnoxious when he gets drunk, again because other women feel safe around him.

And later on, if he asked me to leave the club with his group for a nightcap or whatever, I would be more likely to say yes if other women were going to be joining us.

I would say the 'Wing Woman' concept DOES work, for exactly the reason that Who Cares #2 gave in his recent post ...
"Women are much more apt to trust the opinion of another woman regarding a man than they would be to trust that man's male friend. Having a woman friend basically says to other woman that you've been vetted by another woman and been found to be somewhat worthy"
... although I would add SAFE to that, as well.

Thanks RN,

NOW that stupid wingwoman thing makes sense. I practically smacked myself in the forehead after reading your post. Once again, we see how valuable it is to have a female point of view expressed here.

I think the key concept is that being around other women makes you look good to other women. However, this doesn't work unless you quickly establish that you are still available (without looking too eager :D ).

Hmmmm, I guess I'm just a slow learner.

Rock

"I think the key concept is that being around other women makes you look good to other women".

Yep - I would agree with that. Another thing that came to mind after I posted last was the 'pack mentality' that often seems to occur among men, especially when alcohol is involved. When a group of men are out together on the hunt, filled with false bravado and egging each other on, they can appear quite intimidating to their female 'target'. When their group includes women, men tend to be a little better behaved - I guess because they know they will suffer the wrath of their female friends if they're disrespectful to another woman!

As for establishing that you're still available, I don't think that's a hard task. Most women can tell from a mile away whether or not the girl you're with is your girlfriend. It can be a little difficult with REALLY close friends, where there's a high level of comfort and/or intimacy between you, but as a general rule I think women are pretty darn good at reading body language and determining whether the girl by your side is a threat or an ally. Just make sure you don't go out with a girl who has a crush on you or that you have a romantic history with - she's likely to come off as jealous and protective and make it clear to every woman in the room that you're off-limits.

Come now, RN, would you not apply the same attributes to a pack of women on a girl´s night out? Certainly no suitor could get within touching distance without meeting the approval of at least the majority of the sisterhood.

I agree that any unescorted ladies are generally seen as fair game by men on the prowl, but for sheer scale of bravado, you ladies have it all over the men. Ever seen or heard about "hen nights" and male strippers?

Uptight, repressed women acting like randy 18 year olds.

Sounds like fun! ;)

Cheers,

Sporadic

Women can be shocking when they get together - especially when male strippers are involved! I think we're all a little better behaved when we're in a mixed group. Too much oestrogen in one place can be just as dangerous as too much testosterone!

Was listening in to a radio show based in San Diego and this woman was ragging about how her boyfriend gave her inexpensive jewelry as one of her main Christmas gifts and when she took it to her jeweler to get it appraised it wasnt worth as much as she thought and was outraged. Not because he boyfriend lied, but because she didnt score the bling bling! The female co host was totally saying crap about the guy too because she also believed that love = spending tons of money on her. Dang just put on sign saying 'Will put out for gems." and stand on the corner of the red light district. The guy callers and guy cohost said maybe the guy was down on his luck or thought it still looked pretty but wanted to do something for her but the women just talked about 'deserving high class gifts' and so forth. The 'no money-no honey', attitudes of so many american women is so irritating to me when they dont realize that they are just being escort service girls and not 'classy' or 'discriminating'. At least with a bargirl I know she'll stop being sweet when I stop buying her drinks and stuff but I dont want to ever think the girl that says she loves me forever no matter what would cut me off because maybe money got tight and I had to get something pretty from the local mall for once instead of Gucci or Cartier's.

Belgrath, that is SO true! Wedding vows don't mean JACK SHIT to American Women. For Better or Worse? Get real! She's out searching for another dick supply the minute things get bumpy instead of pitching in and attempting to work things out as a team. For Richer or Poorer? PLEASE! I'm supposed to shell out FUCKING JEWELRY and other pricey trinkets JUST to stay on her good side and occasionally get laid IF she feels like it? I swear it's like what Montel William's brother said once about (American) women: their listening skills are like a sale; they hear what they want to hear (50%) and the other stuff (what they don't find palatable) is HALF OFF.

That poor schmoe is gonna end up paying (literally and figuratively) for sex that will eventually have all the fun of a necrophiliac experience and SHE will think that she's giving him the best sex since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden!

P4P is the Great Humbler, 'cos it gives a woman perspective that her shit AIN'T all that!

Marriage is a total waste of time, money, and sanity in the 21st century, prostitutes and part time girlfriends are the new reality, at least in the USA.

Belgrath,

If that woman tried that kind of crap on ME, I'd do what any guy still in possession of both his balls would do. I'd tell her what an ungrateful kunt she is and then I'd tell her to go fuck herself (after I took the gift back).

There's way too many women out there with this kind of problem attitude. What causes it? I don't think anybody knows for sure, but I suspect that jealousy plays a big part. The average american female usually has an overly high sense of her self-image. This is especially true if she's even a little bit good looking. Then they look to see what other women are getting and that's where the trouble starts. "Hmmmm, I'm better looking than her, and her boyfriend got her a $2,000 item of whatever." Now they think that they should get something of at least equal value.

Not all women are like this. But, like I said once before, these are the ones we keep running into because these are the ones that are usually available.

Maybe we should borrow a page from the womens' operating manual. Don't just check her out, but take a good look at her friends as well. How do they all act? What do they talk about? If they seem materialistic and have that sky-high sense of entitlement, we might be doing ourselves a big favor if we just keep on looking.

Rock

Rock

Greetings everyone,

First off, this is going to be just a little bit off topic, but it kind of relates to this forum so here goes.

I've been watching all the news coverage about the tsunami for the last 2 weeks. Quite a few times they have shown people who are trying to help as well as people who are looking for lost or missing relatives. There's been people from North America and Europe too.

What I noticed was that most of the guys from the States were there with their wives. I never saw one single one of these women that were good looking. Without exception, they were loud and ho-hum looking with fat, out-of-shape bodies. The guys were no hell either, but still.

The european guys seem to be a different story. Lots of the swedish guys have swedish wives and I was a little surprised to see that they still look pretty good even after being married and having kids. Also, the euro guys seemed a lot more likely to go off and marry asian, african and latina women as there were quite a few interracial couples.

Hmmmm, maybe it's a trend. We've got foreign competition for jobs. Why not give women some foreign competition for men. I'd love to do a questionnaire type of survey and see what women think about THAT.

Rock

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Marriage is a total waste of time, money, and sanity in the 21st century, prostitutes and part time girlfriends are the new reality, at least in the USA.[/QUOTE]

It really gravels me [ and it takes a LOT for me to use 'gravel' as a verb ] when people say that Hookers "sell their bodies"

Hookers only [i]Rent[/i] their bodies ; it's the Wives who've 'sold' them....

Hookers divulge UP FRONT the bill of goods they will sell you; Wives include a lot of FINE PRINT that is NOT divulged and will take advantage of the sucker who fails to read it.

... not to mention that Wives sell their bodies the way those pushy sales·people
sell Time Shares =

You can only use it once a year ; but most wives don't even offer a 'Roll Over' Option , if you get my drift

Hey guys, Jackson's worked most of the bugs out of the system caused by the DOS attacks, but nobody's posting! I know we didn't run out of things to say, did we?

Server's back up, and it's safe to come out and play again ;)

Yay Hooray!

I noticed the exact same thing as Smut V. Maybe everyone is waiting for someone else to make the first post. So here goes.

Does anyone ever watch Maury Povich? I've noticed that a lot of the time a woman will have a paternity test done to prove to her boyfriend/husband that the kid is really his. What's interesting is that, every now and then, it turns out he isn't the dad.

Then the girl usualy gets a shocked look on her face before she runs to the backstage in tears. Seems like quite a few women are out there screwing around. I'm wondering if there's any good surveys out there that give some idea of how often this goes on.

Rock

Hey, Smut!

I was gonna make a comment on something I saw on Oprah a little over a month ago (or was it longer than that?). It involved something that occurred on 'Sex in the City", which, by the way, I have NEVER seen a full episode EVER. Anyhoo, on Oprah, the subject was when a woman falls for a guy but he gives her a "polite" brushoff. The phenomenon is called: "He's Just Not Into You". She goes onto interview this guy who readily gives millions of women the so-called signs of when a guy brushes off a woman and I immediately thought to myself: "Where is the fucking show that tells GUYS about the MYRIAD bullshit excuses and mindgames that WOMEN toss at men SOMETIMES for FUN"? I know I was talking to myself at the moment, but I was frustrated at the one-sided issue.

Sinanju Master,

That guy on Oprah was pushing his book.

This is from a description on Amazon.com:

"He's Just Not That Into You --based on a popular episode of Sex and the City -- educates otherwise smart women on how to tell when a guy just doesn't like them enough, so they can stop wasting time making excuses for a dead-end relationship. He's Just Not That Into You is provocative, hilarious, and, above all, intoxicatingly liberating. It deserves a place on every woman's night table. It knows you're a beautiful, smart, funny woman who deserves better. The next time you feel the need to start "figuring him out," consider the glorious thought that maybe He's just not that into you. And then set yourself loose to go find the one who is."

I read most of the synopsis and a few reviews. Basically, the book is saying to the female, "Look, if he doesn't call you, doesn't email you, doesn't ask you out on a date, well, maybe he just doesn't want anything to do with you."

And that's the hilarious part! Apparently, even women themselves understand that there is a tremendous need for a book that helps them THINK LOGICALLY when it comes to relationships. (not that there's any hope for that ever happening)

P.S. I have watched Sex in the City on a few occasions (never by choice) and have found that it can at times offer truly incredible insight into the fucked-up female mind. Kind of like watching a car accident........

LS,

I remember watching a few minutes of it once, and from what I was able to piece together, the broad Samantha had just lured an old flame into bed (it was morning and they had just finished doing the deed god knows how many times) with the intention of dumping him because (get THIS) he dumped HER sometime ago! ANYWAY, they get to talking and experiencing the afterglow and although he was oblivious to her plot, he dumps her AGAIN!! She then freaks out, throws a tantrum and says OUTRIGHT (I don't think this is VERBATIM, but it's very very CLOSE): "That's not supposed to happen! YOU'RE supposed to get dumped by ME"! I was laffing my ASS OFF!

Rock Dog,

"Seems like quite a few women are out there screwing around. I'm wondering if there's any good surveys out there that give some idea of how often this goes on."

This is interesting. After DNA paternity tests became common, biologists started using them on various animals. For many years, people thought some species of birds bonded with a single male for the whole season (and in fewer cases, for life). Anyway, it turned out that about 20-25% (on average) of nestlings in such species were fathered by a different male! Of course, to do these kinds of tests in humans would be unethical. But estimates are about 5-10% of the babies in the US are not fathered by the male that is supposed to have. Of course, both men and women are screwing around; and studies in other animals show that females screw around lot more than people previously suspected (but probably less than men).

Crypton

Programmes like sex in the city have an awful lot to answer for! Women in the west see it and suddenly believe it is ok to apply aggression to the jealous/revenge streak in them. This results in unnattractive witches such as that Samantha character. Personally cant watch the programme for more than 5 mins without filling with rage. Hopefully such shit will never be essential viewing for girls elsewhere in the world.

On the topic of infidelity, I read from a reputable source a year or so ago that approx 1 in 20 men in the US and UK were family men and fathers to kids that were not their own and completely unaware of the fact. This figure was derived from a relatively large random survey of couples. I still find this figure hard to believe, but made me think, and i guess yeh, i can see why a woman would do anything to keep a guy supporting her child even if she doubts the true paternity.

Means theres alot of poor dumb guys out there living a lie.

This TV program makes me wonder:

(1) How can women be so damned illogical but such perfect scheme artists at the same time (actually I think the 2nd part of that question is because we men fall for their schemes almost every time).

(2) Ever notice that this show was based on American women? Why not Asians or Latinas, or some other culture? Gives you something to think about, doesn't it?

Oh well, why should it matter; as soon as my financial situation is straightened out I plan to become an expatriate anyway.

P.S. Welcome back Sinanju Master, et al. Nice to hear from everyone again!

Since Infidelity seems to be the Topic du Jour , here's a link to an Article on the Subject =

[URL]http://*******.com/5uf9r[/URL]

Not that I totally agree with it ; fer ex , a psychologist is quoted as saying =

" There are some cases when someone is just having sex with different people out of a need for variety, but most people really think before they go off in that direction. If you have a good relationship, you're less likely to jeopardize it "

"SOME Cases" ??

I would guess that for the over·whelming majority of my fellow Mongers , the desire for a little Variety is the Primary Motive for why they're in the Hobby

Seen this movie "Hitch" last week. Funny flick. Alot of interesting things going on in the movie. First off it pisses me off because it kind of gives away some of the methods and tricks to get a womans attention. With that being said we need all the help we can get. In America anyway. anyways, Hitch is a date doctor who helps men get with chicks through various means. The guys contrive the meeting and do what they do, cause otherwise they dont have a chance. The womans ideal encounter is spontaneous and makes them feel special. We all know for normal guys this don't happen often. Unless you got money or are famous this don't apply. Thats another topic though. One good part is when eva mendes accuses will smith of " tricking, lying, and deceiving woman into getting, getting,"....and will smith says "getting out of their own Goddamn way". Now that there should be an eye opener for woman. Hopefully.

I am starting to realize, just about wherever you go in the world, you are bound to meet some crappy women. In many parts of the world, globalization has a lot to do with this pattern. I have seen a lot of lazy fat stupid women who watch TV all day in Europe and in Australia. In the past, things were different. Still compared to the States, beautiful women in both places are more approachable for the average male. I think it has to do with economics, there aren't a lot of guys with money in these places, so an average guy has a chance of picking someone up through his own charm and appeal rather than playing the meal ticket. Regardless, women around the world look at a man as meal ticket. Its just that some have lower expectations and some have higher expectations. I think in some parts of the world, if a guy has a job and a haircut, that is good enough for most women. However, in America, women have some ridiculous expectations. Those women that come from foreign countries to America can turn out to be the worst American females, greedy and expecting everything from their prospective mate.

mike12,

when i saw the trailer for hitch, i also became a little concerned that will smith might be giving away too much information. as you may be aware, some of that shit actually works! i mean really amazing jedi-mind-trick type shit.

perhaps the most extreme (and thus potentianly untenable) version of this type of thinking is ross jefferies speed seduction program. i'm not promoting it, hell i never even bought it. too bad for ross, much of this info is available for free on the internet.

basically what it comes down to is getting totally inside her mind, finding out her likes and dislikes, and artificially creating that reality for her without her having any idea what you are up too. in effect, you are programming her to like you and want to fuck you. sub-themes also involve ignoring her from time to time, just to remind her she's only a ho to you (recommended by 50 cent in one of his new songs, incidentally) and learning how to be that jerk all girls love so much.

it can be tricky to get the hang of, and certainly doesn't always work. but if you can find a simple-minded enough chick, the odds can be good. i've had some amazing results with chicks i thought were out of my league.

unfortunatly, as you may suspect, this type of technique is only sustainable over the short-term. in other words, obviously, the basis for the whole relationship is a lie (i.e. the fabricated world that you have created for her) and will last only as long as you choose to carry the facade.

also, it gets tiring being an asshole all the time. (at least it does for me.) i happen to love women. they are nature's most perfect creation in my eyes - physically, at least, mentally is another story. inevitably, you reach the point in the relationship where you want to reveal your true feelings for the girl, but this you can never do. for to admit this is to admit defeat and to hand her the victory. from this point, only two outcomes can occur: either she'll want to get married or she'll dump you. considering that neither one of those is a desired outcome, there exists no reason for continuing past a short-term relationship.

therefore, in these situations, its still 3f baby, all the way.

and the sad thing is, they'll love you all the more for it.

Guys,

If this trailer cums anywhere near the way American guys act around women, we really need an 'American Men' section...:D

[url]http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/hitch/high.html[/url]

Well, you know, Long Stroker, there's always the other side of the coin that doesn't involve living a lie -- such as actually caring about her likes and dislikes and trying to genuinely bring them into the equation as opposed to creating a fake world.

But you're right -- that could mean really getting emotionally involved and possibly into a sustainable relationship, which would be "defeat."

"But you're right -- that could mean really getting emotionally involved and possibly into a sustainable relationship, which would be defeat."

Ain't that the truth - speaking as a woman who recently got dumped because she was (apparently) everything this guy ever wanted, which scared the hell outta him and made him run for the hills.

My now ex-boyfriend spent most of our last official day of coupledom talking about marriage and babies and how I was so different to any other woman he'd met and how much he adored me, blah, blah, blah. Two days later, he emailed me (yes...email, not phone) to say that he was scared by the intensity of what he was feeling and that maybe we should just cool it for a while. Two days after that, I was offically dumped (on the phone) and he started shagging a girl practically half my age. When I asked him what she had that I didn't have, he said it wasn't like that at all - being with her was just "easier". Easier than what? "Easier than being in love" he says.

Two weeks later and he's already dumped his little diversion. We still talk pretty often and he's made it quite clear he doesn't want to get back together. Even so, he gets nervous and tongue-tied every time he sees me and prefers to contact me via email because apparently "hearing your voice makes it harder". He said he would offer me a place to stay when I'm in town, but he "doesn't trust himself". He caught me in flagrante delicto with a 25 year old Justin Timberlake lookalike 'diversion' of my own last Saturday night and almost cried before storming out of the club - but noooo...he doesn't give a shit about me at all.

Do I love him more for treating me like dirt? HELL NO! I loved him (still do...very much) because he treated me with respect and we laughed and we had so much in common and he was the kind of BEST FRIEND I could picture having by my side for the rest of my days. I HATE players. I HATE not knowing where I stand with a man. I HATE being treated like a princess one minute and a wh*re the next. DON'T DO IT, GUYS!!!

Honesty is what most women want. And respect. And security. No, not financial security...EMOTIONAL security. We want to know how you REALLY feel about us, not sit at home by the phone wondering whether you're thinking about us or whether you're out doing a 20 year old barmaid. If you're picturing marrying us and having babies - tell us. If you're just attracted to us and wanna have drunken monkey sex here and there without commitment - tell us THAT! But for God's sake...just tell the TRUTH!

As for me, I'm going back to being the feminazi 'all men are bastards' man-hater that I was a few months ago. Hopefully, one day I'll find a guy who can prove me wrong.

Just so you know that the truth really CAN work (no matter how politically incorrect that truth may be!) here's how I ended up going at it like a teenager in the corner of the club with a cute stranger on Saturday night.

To cut a long story short, I was depressed as hell being in the same club as my ex and not being able to go near him, I met a fabulous chick who forced me out onto the dance floor, bitched with me about how much men suck (we don't actually believe all that stuff, but it always makes us feel better - call it a female bonding ritual ;) ) and introduced me to her Justin Timberlake lookalike friend. After an hour or so of me subconsciously looking over at my ex every three seconds, 'Justin' put his fingers into the belt loops of my jeans and pulled me towards him until my pelvis was against his, looked me straight in the eye and said "I could give you something to take your mind off him..." I laughed and told him that it wouldn't be very fair to use him as a diversion. He just put his arms around me and said with a grin "I'm a guy...I don't care WHY you're doing it, so long as you're doing it with me". Add a couple of cheesy "The man is a fool - you're the hottest woman in the room" type comments and how could I not take him back to my hotel room? :)

Thing is, he told me exactly what he wanted - no bullshit and no false promises. I like knowing where I stand. Don't tell a girl you want something that you don't, or make it out that you're something that you're not. If you think she's a hottie and you just wanna take her home for the night and bang her senseless, then tell her. You never know - that might be exactly what she's looking for!

The fact that many guys feel they have to use all kinds of tactics and strategies just goes to show how bad things really are.

Honesty? Just be yourself? Let her know how much you really want her? Naively, one would expect that openness and honestly would be the best way to go. Sadly, it isn't...... not where our women are concerned.

They really do seem to be more attracted to a guy who is interesting, but not interested.

Strange.

Rock

Exactly right, Rock Dog. "Just be yourself" is for SUCKERS. You MUST run game if you want to get anywhere with chicks in America these days. I know because I used to be the nice guy.......who always finished last when it came to women. Not anymore, baby. It's funny, acting like a jerk reduces the need to jerk-off! (I just came up with that.)

Rock, you nailed it too when you said: "They really do seem to be more attracted to a guy who is interesting, but not interested."

"Interesting", because you have to create that sense of adventure, that devil-may-care, "who knows what could happen next?" type attitude which sets their little hearts all atwitter and......

not "Interested", because the second they get the sense that you are too much into them, they'll drop you like last month's Cosmo magazine.

RN: I forgot that there are female regulars that post here or perhaps I would not have been so brusque with my earlier comments. I didn't mean ALL women are like this. I am primarily referring to 20-30 year old range American women. (My target audience.) In my experience, all they seem to want is fun, fun, fun.

P.S. Truly sorry to hear about your breakup RN. It certainly does sound like the guy was scared of commitment.

To paraphrase Dave Barry: "One of the married guy's biggest fears, constantly gnawing at the corners of his mind, is that at any given moment in time, some single guy, somewhere in the world is having more fun than he is right now." This constant distress is more than some can bear.

.... for [b]RN[/b] =

[URL]http://*******.com/6rqox[/URL]

... for the guys =

[URL]http://*******.com/66k4f[/URL]

Long Stroker, you read my mind to the "T"! Be yourself? Get REAL! American Women are like moths. DRAWN to the bad-boy fire. They know instinctively it's bad for them, but they STILL flock to it. When I was nice, I was stupid, and I'll agree on that with ANYONE who says so. A few years ago, I fell for a former coworker. Her bf had just left town and dumped her and left her in financial dire straits. Dumbass fool that I was, I moved in to fill the vacuum, offered her my shoulder to cry on and my ear to bend and I made her aware of my feelings for her. As RN would have advised, I was up front, so there was no ambiguity. I instinctively felt that she was eventually moving away from me. Because I was doing what women said I should do, I was crushed when I eventually learned that she found someone else. I vowed then from that moment forward NEVER to be fool enough to lower my shields, and I also tossed the heart out the window, because it would get in the way.

I'm not bashing RN, but women, in their need to feel politically correct, will put forth the appearance that they are fair in their dealings with men and that they will give any suitor "a chance". Anyway, I then began reading the material of Doc Love and the stuff he says makes so much sense. In a nutshell, you have to keep the woman off-balance by NOT being predicatble (translation: doing what 999 other guys do to try to win her over) and being a Challenge. I haven't seen HITCH yet, but I think I have the idea: "If you gotta fake the funk to make a slam dunk" by all means DO SO. I'm not advocating falsifying the very essence of who you are, but add "LIFE" and mystery to your public persona, and a chick will have to work to solve the puzzle. After all, don't we all feel better after we've EARNED something instead of having it given to us?

RN, I await your hatchet....

the kick in the gut (the most tangible beginning of the end) came when I told her of my feelings for her and she uttered the death sentence: "I'll ALWAYS be your friend".

With all due respect, Sinanju Master, it sounds as though the real mistake you made was being the rebound guy. I don't disagree in the least that tons of women have a bad boy thing (perhaps in the same way than many men have a sl*t thing that disappears when the start thinking about the Madonna who's chosen to pop out their babies, when it's suddenly time for the pure and virginal) but being the one who picks someone up off the floor after they've been put there does indeed very often set you up for gratitude and friendship but not more.

JZ and SM,

Rebound guy = Emotional tampon

To be used in pretty much the same way. You're there to absorb their crap and then, when no longer needed, get tossed without any second thoughts.

Possible countermeasures = a 5 minute time limit on listening to any pissing, moaning or whining. When the time is up, just tell her things will get better, the right guy is out there etc. and then tell her you've got to go because you have "things to do".

Rock

Joe Zop: To clarify, I wasn't meaning to equate a sustainable relationship with defeat. What I mean was that once you've confessed your true feelings to a woman, there are only two possible outcomes: Marriage or getting dumped by the girl. Either of these outcomes I would view as defeat. On the contrary, a sustainable relationship built on truthfulness from both parties would be my ideal, but I don't see how that is possible, given the way the economic and social system is currently set up in the US.

"Actually caring about her likes and dislikes" is okay if done superficially, but it's been my experience that once they get the idea that you're really into them, they're gone.

Sinanju Master: I see that you have experienced first-hand the hopelessness and despair of falling into the trap of the "Friend Zone." Haven't we all? This is one of the worst positions a man can find himself in. Being close enough to touch and smell the object of his desire, and yet powerless to consumate that desire. The literature suggests a way of dealing with this dilemma (which has its own acronym, by the way - LJBF - which stands for "let's just be friends.") I don't know if Doc Love has covered it, but it goes something like this:

At the very beginning, when setting up the first date (even though you never call them dates, you call them get-togethers, but that's a whole 'nother topic) on the phone you say something to the effect of:

"Let's get together for some coffee, get to know each other, if nothing else, I'm sure you'll make a great FRIEND."

This fucks with their little minds like you wouldn't believe. It plays to their insecurities, their fears, and even their self-esteem. Ironically these are all emotions they would hold YOU hostage with if you allowed them to.

Let her think that you will be evaluating her to determine if she is worthy of your friendship. Your reward will be clearly visible in the thought bubbles that form above her head:

"Who does this guy think he is, judging the value of me? What makes him so special? Hmmm, maybe I had better find out just what it is that makes him special, before some other girl beats me to it."

and

"I can't believe this guy just wants to be friends! Why doesn't he want to fuck me, like all the other guys I date? Am I not attractive to him? What's wrong with me?"

Logic would dicktate that if 99 guys wanted to fuck you and 1 guy didn't, that the problem must lie with that 1 guy. Statistically speaking, that 1 guy is an anomaly. But not to the female mind! That 1 guy is a riddle wrapped in an enigma. She will ignore the 99 other guys until she can "figure out" this one guy. And if he can get in her pants before she gets to the last chapter, he's golden!

(Which, upon review, pretty much echoes most of what you said in your post, SM. I didn't realize that I was making a similar point until I went back and re-read your comments. So I guess we're in agreement!)

PsyberZombie: That Pearls Before Swine cartoon was great. Lord knows I've been there before.

'Emotional Tampon"... A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I LOVE that one! That's gonna have me chuckling at inappropriate moments for a WEEK! Hehehehe

JZ, you're correct. I made the MISTAKE of being the rebound guy. For that, I needed to be temporarily branded. Instead of an "A" across my chest that adulterers would receive in the early days of this country, I should have worn an "L" across my forehead for LOSER. Rock Dog's countermeasures seem great. Too bad I didn't use such logic when things transpired at the time, but when you're too close to the situation, perspective is an alien concept.

Sinanju -- "I'm not bashing RN, but women, in their need to feel politically correct, will put forth the appearance that they are fair in their dealings with men and that they will give any suitor a chance."

I never said I was 'fair' when dealing with men. When it comes to attraction, there's just no room for political correctness. I'm NOT gonna have sex and/or start a relationship with you if I think you're too fat, thin, smart, stupid, old, young, driven, lazy, etc for what I'm looking for at that particular moment in my life. You either turn me on, or you don't. You're either the man of my dreams, or one of my mates. There's either chemistry, or there's not. I'm not going to apologise for that. I'm hardly gonna bump uglies with a man I'm not attracted to, just so I don't hurt his feelings.

But as for giving any suitor a chance - if you mean do I go into things with an open mind and without prejudice, then yes. I do. I don't have a 'type' of man that I go for, as such. There ARE certain characteristics that I generally find attractive, but I never go specifically looking for those things. I rely VERY heavily on chemistry and instinct. If I'm not turned on (or at the very least, intrigued) within the first few minutes, its not gonna happen. But I'll give ANY man those first few minutes to at least have a go.

Rock -- "To be used in pretty much the same way. You're there to absorb their crap and then, when no longer needed, get tossed without any second thoughts".

Don't try and tell me that men don't do that as well. And often they are much more callous about it! Look at the poor girl that my ex used to help get ME out of his head. Here she is thinking he's got rid of me to be with her ("I must be pretty special for him to dump his girlfriend for me") and then he just gives her the flick when he realises it's not working. I actually feel sorry for her.

PS. Congrats on your senior status!


Long Stroker -- "RN: I forgot that there are female regulars that post here or perhaps I would not have been so brusque with my earlier comments"

Don't hold back on my account. I wouldn't have stayed with this board for all these years if I was THAT easily offended! And thanks for the kind words. :)


To all of you -- You're all sick to death of women scheming and conniving and playing with your heads, so your answer is...what...scheming and conniving and playing with THEIR heads??? Got news for you boys - the more YOU do it, the more THEY are gonna feel they have to do it. And the more THEY do it, the more YOU are gonna have to do it to keep up.

Here's my theory - if the woman is a lying, scheming b*tch, why would you want her? Just walk away, for goodness sake. She's not worth it. And if the woman is a genuine, honest person, then she deserves the same honesty in return. Don't play with her head. It's not fair. There's no excuse for game-playing from EITHER sex. Period.

RN, I don't ever remember begrudging a woman having the requirement of chemistry. It's that a lot of them say that they would give ANY suitor a "chance". They never state the requirements you did, which is why I hold their feet to the fire. That omission makes them appear blameless from the beginning, but when things turn bad, THEN they add the caveat. Even in our private conversations I don't remember EVER chiding you for turning up your nose at someone who didn't physically attract you or didn't stir your chemistry. If I ever DID, please produce the evidence. If a woman said UP FRONT the things you did about her requirements, that'd be cool and I would have no reason to chide her. HOWEVER, American women have mastered omission in order to manufacture the situation to make them come out smelling like a rose. As for men adopting underhanded techniques to make it with women, in early life, WOMEN BEGIN with a headstart on men in the arena of relationships and therefore develop more techniques of "guile". We are (admittedly) less developed as a whole in the arena of relationships than women and women KNOW THAT. The result is that they will take advantage of that fact and not feel ANY guilt about it WHATSOEVER. When a man engages in such underhanded behavior, it is no less abhorrent, BUT it is a lesser skilled participant playing catch-up to his more skilled opponent. I applaud any victory a man achieves in that fashion. It's wrong to feel that way, and if you truly want to bury the hatchet in my head, feel free to do so.

You seem like a cool chick who would be a great find, but I truly wonder if a man came at you with all the intangible requirements you described would last very long since you would have him all figured out in no time flat. You would be bored very quickly and looking for the guy who could keep you metaphorically (read: NOT NEGATIVELY) off-balance.

Accept my sharpening stone if you feel offended...

RN,

You're right of course. Lot's of guys will go after whatever girl is available just to get over their last flame. Use 'em then dump 'em once one's self esteem has been rebuilt.

We do it to women and the women do it to us.... each in our own particular way. Neither is admirable, but that's the way things are. I just happen to feel a bit more sorry for the guy who hangs in there, desperately hoping that the woman will give him a break.

Kind of like Charlie Brown hoping that Lucy won't pull back the football so that he can finally kick it instead of missing and landing on his ass every time.

Rock

Sinanju -- "I applaud any victory a man achieves in that fashion".

That is what disturbs me most about the conversations being held in this section. Call me old fashioned, but isn't love supposed to be a win-win situation? There shouldn't be a winner and a loser. If there is, then it seems one of you probably doesn't give a shit about the other - in which case, why the hell would you even be trying? Spite? Malice? To have another conquest to write about in your black book? Since when did love and attraction become a competition???

"You would be bored very quickly and looking for the guy who could keep you metaphorically (read: NOT NEGATIVELY) off-balance".

I don't like feeling 'off-balance'. I HATE feeling off-balance. I like to know exactly where I stand at all times. Fact is, I'm a very cynical, very jealous woman, with an overactive imagination. If my man takes that bit too long to return my calls, or acts cagey or does anything else that is too dramatically different to how he normally behaves for no obvious reason, I will start to worry. The more he puts me 'off-balance', the more I worry about his motives. Before long, I will have him written off in my head as a lying, cheating womaniser and I will be off looking for a young cutie to take my mind off him. Yes, I know that's not very grown-up behaviour - but neither is someone who apparently loves me 'treating me mean to keep me keen', as they say. There's a difference between keeping her interested and keeping her wondering. Nobody in a HEALTHY relationship should have to constantly wonder whether or not his/her partner gives a damn.

I think you're giving women way too much credit. We are already VERY insecure individuals. It doesn't take much to tip us over the edge.

To : [b]RN[/b]

While we all surely appreciate a woman's point of view here , there's one Basic Issue that's hard to over·look when we read your posts , RN =

This Board is about [b]American[/b] Women ; and YOU are not American

Even though I'm not the most widely travelled guy here , I have been to many different countries and have three pass·ports full of stamps to prove it and one thing I've learned is that American Women are Unique in their out·look and attitudes towards life

Allow me , if you will , to re·post this Article on Thai Women and why American guys fall so hard for them [ "Farang" is Thai for "foreigner" ] =

[i] " Farang men often fall madly in love with the first Thai girl they meet – even if she’s a rough street prostitute who doesn’t speak English. Love-sick farang men are queuing up at the altar to tie the knot with their dubious Thai mail-order brides but why don’t farang girls stir their passions in the same way?

Thai girls and farang girls could hardly be more different. Put simply, Thai girls are family-orientated and farang girls are increasingly career-orientated. In America, 44% of women aged 15 to 44 have chosen to remain childless and the trend is gathering pace. It’s easy to understand their point of view because, as men, we’ve always pursued our ambitions.

Farang girls enjoy opportunities that their Thai sisters can only dream about. In many ways, life in the West has never been better but it doesn’t seem to have translated into greater human happiness. We are witnessing an epidemic of relationship breakdown. Western men and women seem increasingly ill-matched and unhappy. Statistics reveal that dissatisfied western wives are divorcing their husbands in ever-increasing numbers and they can’t seem to find suitable replacements either. Does this mean that we farang fellas are all useless?

No, of course it doesn’t and I’m going to explain why. Despite the far-reaching changes in western society, the underlying attitudes of men and women remain broadly the same. Men still have a provider mentality and women still have an entitlement mentality. Men have always been attracted by youth and beauty and women have always been attracted by wealth and status. Inevitably, the mismatch between our utopian aspirations and the situation on the ground has created problems.

For the sake of his self-esteem, a man needs to be the breadwinner. Taking on the domestic role makes him feel like a failure. Women, on the other hand, feel uncomfortable in the role of provider. A woman would quickly lose respect for any man who appeared to be living off her. Women still feel entitled to a partner more successful than themselves. Consequently, the more successful a woman becomes, the harder it is to find someone suitable.

On the face of it, men are more easily satisfied. All a man needs is a girl who is cute and kind-hearted. Career status is unimportant – it’s her personal qualities that count. He needs to be her protector and hero. A brash career-orientated woman will never excite a man’s passion. If she’s pretty, he might humour her for long enough to get into her pants but a long-term relationship is unlikely to succeed.

Women who don’t touch a guy’s heart but who have soaring expectations are never going to find husbands. Men seeking unconditional love and respect from aggressive ladettes are never going to find wives. As a result, more people than ever are living lonely single lives between brief affairs. Throughout the western world, we are seeing explosive growth in the number of single person households. In the UK, for example, census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001. An unhappy world of selfish people living alone is now becoming reality.

Returning to the original question, I think that many farang men fall madly in love with a random Thai bar girl because they’ve never met a truly feminine woman before. Men feel a deep need to care for these needy fallen angels and to receive affection in return. Even when the affection is insincere, the compulsion is so great that few farang guys can resist. Thai girls play the role perfectly (See In praise of Thai girlfriends). They wield a power over men that their farang sisters have forgotten how to use. " [/i]

While at the gym yesterday, I was doing some cardio on one of the recumbent bikes when the new song from American Idol winner Kelly Clarkson came on the radio. There was an audible increase in the level of chatter coming from a few college girls exercising behind me. When the chorus came on, they couldn't help but to sing along:

"Since you've been gone
I can breathe for the first time
I'm so movin on
Yeah, yeah
Thanks to you
Now I get
I get what I want
Since you've been gone"

It turns out that one of the best things ever to happen to Kelly Clarkson was breaking up with her wretched boyfriend. He probably did terrible, controlling things to her, like ask her for a BJ every once in a while. Now that he's gone, she can "breathe for the first time!" Here's to "movin on!"

All of which got me to thinking. It's exactly as a poster here recently said. It's not marriage that's the anachronism in 21st century America, it's the male species! Other than providing a paycheck (or simply being the paycheck, in many cases) there is no reason to need a man around anymore.

Harvard's president Larry Summers is under pressure because he (correctly) speculated that differences between male and female brains explain why there are few women at top universities in science and maths. The feminists are using this to point to yet another example of a glass ceiling in which women are held back from the high paying jobs. All of which is irrelevant, as this firestorm of controversy obscures that fact that within 10 years or less, many of the high-paying math and science jobs (which men excel at) will be gone, having been sent to India or China. All that will be left in this country will be soft social-skills jobs that require high degrees of personal interaction and empathy (which women excel at).

As women begin to earn more of the money and become the primary breadwinner in more and more households (it is happening today, look at the numbers) the importance of the male in the American family will furthur diminish. President Hillary is only the beginning.

Probably within 50 years, masculinity itself will be viewed as a vice, not a virtue, and assailed as a primary contributor to violence in society. Laws will be passed, re-education camps will be formed, where men get together to "talk about their feelings" in order to coerce the last bit of manhood out of them.

Even further into the future, one can imagine a worst-case-scenario where men are born in slavery, kept in pods contained in vast fields, and periodically harvested, milked if you will, of their sperm at the whim of the female rulers. Because, despite the female's greatest efforts, asexual reproduction is simply unachievable. However, when engaging in recreational intercourse with each other, the females will still rely on that old standby, the strap-on dildo. (beacause a tongue is no substitute for that feeling of fullness!)

Myself, I hope by then to either be retired to a 3rd world country or dead.

No need for sperm farms - there's always cloning if we want to have babies. ;)

Long Stroker, what you described is a science-fiction variant of Amazon society from ancient Greek mythology. Men were seen as the enemy and useful ONLY for propagating their society. Upon capture, they were killed either outright, or they were made to be sperm donors and THEN killed after they served their purpose.

I also see such a grim (distant?) future upon us; the eyes and minds of men are blinded and dulled while we are led around by the only part that seems to do the thinking for many of us. Being used only as a harvesting vessel and existing at the whim of someone who is IL-LOGICAL for about one week out of the month is scary as shit.

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...."

Gosh, yes, why, it sounds almost as bad as being seen as basically a baby factory and scullery maid... :D


And Larry Summers' primary point was that the expectations of the jobs -- which require single-minded focus, often to the detriment of family, were the greatest factor, with possible brain differences being secondary, and socialization and job discrimination pressures being third.

Yes, there are tons more women in the US workforce -- basically half of all workers. The AFL-CIO (also the source for the rest below) says that in 2000 17.8% of families were maintained by women, and that is definitely more than previously, when it was around half of that.

Now, I know I'm gonna get reamed for this but...

Before we start just throwing blame elsewhere, and saying marriage clearly doesn't work because women just don't need men, perhaps it's also time for men to admit their own complicity in the equation. The average husband does about 37% of the household labor, regardless of whether the wife works or not. Sixty percent of working women have full-time jobs, 63% of those work more than 40 hours per week, and 68% of working mothers work more than 40 hours. Americans are workaholics -- we average nine weeks more work in hours per year that do our brethren in Europe. And the vast majority of parents describe themselves as "used up" by the end of the workday. The truth is that guys simply can't lean on the "I'm the breadwinner so when I get home I deserve to relax and get what I want" argument any more because women are working every bit as much.

Here's the bottom line -- women in relationships with an equitable division of household labor are less prone to depression, more likely to be sexually attracted to their spouses and have better sexual relations.

To me, that's not an argument that women don't need men; it's an argument that they do.

Long Stroker wrote =

[quote][i] " Probably within 50 years, masculinity itself will be viewed as a vice, not a virtue, and assailed as a primary contributor to violence in society. Laws will be passed, re-education camps will be formed, where men get together to "talk about their feelings" in order to coerce the last bit of manhood out of them. "[/quote][/i]

Can we guys get together to "talk about our feelings" at the local Strip Club ??

Better still = how about at the local Brothel ??

If so , Count ME In !!

Confucious say :

" Wife who send Husband to Dog House
... soon find him in Cat House "

LOL PZ, pearls of wisdom like THAT are why many sought the counsel of Confucius

Lots of good posts here, funny, informative, and right to the point. Makes for good reading and learning all around.

On the subject of games, come on now, most women love them. They play games, act like drama queens, and throw invisible gauntlets down for the man to surpass in their mind. Why do you think women love soap operas, Housewives, Sex and the City, and gossip magazines. They can include this drama in their lives by manifesting it in Games. Create drama to feel like they are a character out of Sex and the city. I was a participant in "The Life and Times of a NYC Courtesan" starring ..... ..... until I wised up before my wallet went bust. When I was straight up with no games and just a gentleman it got me nowhere. Now that I can dish out the business, things are more on an equal level. It's a shame though. When traveling to other countries I get by on my own merits with no games for the most part.

Have a friend that pulls lots of chicks. The way he does it is by maintaining the big willie rap star image. He's got the fur coat, bling bling, Prada shirt, luxury cars, etc etc. Pulled one aspiring model type by telling her "you might have seen me in a 50cent video". Another one by flashing cash, and still more by alluding to big money connects and entertainment hookups. Hey, Who can resist a non-threatening, cool, rapper type anyway? Most of these chicks are barracudas though, so it hard for him to keep their company. They have real ambitious goals like copping E, emulating Brittany, meeting rapstars, partying hard, driving Lexuses, and being shallow. I dealt with one dancer chick one time and her behaviour was such a turnoff I didn't even bang her when the chance came. He's a great guy, good looking, and real personable, but this is what he has to do to get with these girls.

Confucious say =

" Women's panties not best thing in world , but next to it !! "

Confucious also say =

" Man who put cream in tart not necessarily baker "

Mike12, it's precisely that kind of bullshit that makes me think: "You say you want a gentleman, but you treat him like a fucking butler when you meet him! When you meet a shark in dolphin's clothing, you run to him like a mindless lemming and WONDER why your heart has been gutted from your chest cavity!" IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE!

[quote]Mike12, it's precisely that kind of bullshit that makes me think: "You say you want a gentleman, but you treat him like a fucking butler when you meet him! When you meet a shark in dolphin's clothing, you run to him like a mindless lemming and WONDER why your heart has been gutted from your chest cavity!" IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE![/quote]

Sinanju,

It's called LOGIC. The problem is not that women [u]can't[/u] think logically- it's that they often [u]don't[/u].

the following is from an advice column in the most recent edition of a tabloid called the [b] new york press[/b] =

how many hookers have the horndogs hired?

by judy mcguire
[email]dategirl@nypress.com[/email]

i've had girlfriends, and now a wife, but i've never been with a
pro. drawing on your extensive research, can you tell me how those
experiences differ from dating or marital sex? is it the attraction
of the illicit, or just the desire of a professional to please a
client, or is there something more to it?

—name withheld

there are about a million different reasons one decides to go the
pay-for-play route. a girlfriend of mine hired a variety of male
escorts in order to get back at her philandering husband. another
pal is very specific about his physical specifications—he likes big
butts and he cannot lie! he can't always find these qualities in
the women he dates, so he occasionally leases.

the rent-girl/boy's appeal is obvious; an attractive someone comes
over to your apartment (or, even better, a hotel), you give him/her
an agreed-upon fee, he/she gives you an orgasm. there's no need to
sit through his band's cd or feign interest in her extensive
collection of troll figurines. you both know what you're there for,
so you don't have to engage in that sometimes exciting, but
all-too-often-exhausting, mating dance.

we womenfolk like to think it's just the grotesquely disfigured
fella who's hiring all those hookers. you know, the man so
physically repulsive it renders him completely unfuckable by all
but the most strong-stomached and well-paid professionals. but
contrary to what we ladies might want to think, these poor souls
are the minority. lots of guys—lots of perfectly good looking,
normal guys—either have paid or will pay for sex at some point in
their life.

it's not like you can tell a potential hooker-hirer just by looking
at him. sure, some guys are easy—the leghumping douchebag you
caught peeking through the crack in the ladies room door, the
asshole misogynist who works in sales, the cripplingly shy nerd who
walks your dog—these guys are all likely candidates. but what about
that sweet elderly gentleman who's dating your aunt sarah? he may
be ponying up sawbucks to have an **** tranny take a crap in
his mouth.

then there's the dude who wants what he wants when he wants it.
when he decides he'd like a little oral action and he's either
temporarily single, or out of town or in the mood for a redhead
instead of a blonde, he dials 1-800-blowjob, much in the way he
orders a new pair of pants. for him everything boils down to
commerce, and he gives getting laid about as much thought as he
does getting a boil lanced.

of course there are the scamps who get off on the thrill of doing
something naughty. much like so many young girls think themselves
all scandalous by playing lesbian 'til graduation, these guys will
eventually grow up and realize that there's really very little that
will shock anyone anymore.

then again, there are the women-haters who feel that at base all
dames are *****s anyway, but i like to think that there aren't too
many of them.

some johns are just bored and horny, still others have a kink
that's not easily negotiated in "mainstream" society. i mean, there
are women who won't put a dick in their mouths. imagine what
happens to a guy who is really out there in terms of what gets him
hot? can you understand how frightening it is for the average guy
to tell his new girlfriend he can only get off if he's dressed in
full stinky [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131][CodeWord131][/url], with a ball gag in his mouth, the soundtrack
from diva on volume 11, all the lights on and the curtains open? at
best, your average woman would think him a freak; at worst, she's
laughing at him, then running out the door while screaming. but
with a hired helping hand, he doesn't have this worry because
anything that he could possibly cook up, there's no doubt she's
seen weirder.


volume 18, issue 9

©2005 all rights reserved.
no part of this website may be reproduced in any manner without
written permission of the publisher yeah right


[url]http://nypress.com/18/9/news&columns/dategirl.cfm[/url]

A good way to get an idea of American women versus foreign women is to visit Canada. In Montreal, for example, a good escort costs about $100 US, a similar quality girl in a medium sized US city will charge at least $300 and in bigger cities it will get even more expensive. In Montreal prostitution is legal, and the more European culture tends to look at sex as less of a big deal. A woman isn't a sort of prize that she is in the States. In fact, walking down a street in Montreal during the summer one will be amazed at the sheer quantity and quality of women.

If you go to Europe or Latin America it gets even better as there are gorgeous ladies everywhere. I vacationed recently in Austria(not to be confused with Australia where I currently reside as an expat) and the houselady was this rather attractive Bulgarian 20 something. She was a very stunning women, yet was amazed me was how approachable and friendly she was, she even offered to personally take me on a tour of the city where I was visiting, Vienna. Most of women of her caliber in the States are often arrogant and condescending yet this girl was nothing like that. I was walking down the street in Vienna and I saw a lot of elegant looking European women who were completely approachable. Similar women in the States(if you could find them) would not be so friendly. If I walked up to a total stranger and played stupid, I would get a friendly smile. In some instances, I would be able to get their phone number for a date, and this was in a middle of a large European city!! Some mild diplomacy went a long way. Something like this would never happen with women in Boston or some other big city in the States.

No sex thanks - I'm Australian

March 09, 2005
From: AAP

AUSTRALIAN women are fatter and less interested in sex than a decade ago with many more single and childless, according to a government report released to mark International Women's Day today.

The Women in Australia 2004 report also shows that almost three quarters of the nation's women do little or no exercise and continue to earn less than males, receiving on average 84 per cent of the amounts earned by the opposite sex.

But more women than men are studying and women's labour force participation has hit its highest level with 66 per cent of all women working.

"Today is about celebrating those achievements and inspiring a commitment to sustaining and improving the position of women in Australia," Family and Community Services Minister Kay Patterson said.

The report shows the median age of Australian women has increased to 36.9 years in 2003 from 30.8 years in 1983, more than half are not interested in sex and about a quarter will not have children.

The number of women living alone rose to 13 per cent in 2003 from 11 per cent a decade earlier, while about 43.2 per cent of women were now likely to be overweight and 17.4 per cent were likely to be obese.

The report was compiled using a variety of studies from the Australian Bureau of Statistics and health organisations.

In his 1914 book, "America and the Philippines", writer Carl Crow views the first decade of the American colonization as a Golden Age of sorts. It was an era, he tells us, where Filipinos and Americans socialized freely, ignoring the strict racial divisions that were so prevalent elsewhere in the world at the time. This meant, of course, that American men were free to socialize with the local women. He writes,

“During the period just after the war Americans attended parties given by the prominent Filipinos and danced with the wives and daughters of their hosts. For a time they were on a social equality and it appeared that all men were really free and equal just as they are in the Constitution of the United States and nowhere else.”

Yet Crow laments that this paradise was soon to be spoiled. As the Philippines grew more politically stable and thus safer for foreigners, the wives and families of the American men in the Philippines began to arrive by ship. If the author is to be believed, the arrival of foreign women in the Philippines meant an end to the social and racial equalities that had been enjoyed by Filipinos to that point.

“Enter, then, the American woman. Peace had been secured and wives came out to join their husbands. At once another campaign against the Filipinos began. The social barriers set up by the American woman were quite as impregnable as those their hero husbands had built against the insurrectos (Filipino insurrectionists). The engagement was short but decisive, and ended with a second defeat for the Filipinos, for they were barred from the American drawing rooms...The American man, as usual, allowed his wife to regulate his social affairs, and as a result no Filipino is admitted to the clubs, and there is no place in Manila where the two races can meet socially on an equal footing.”

Thus, in Crow’s view, the arrival of American women in the Philippines was directly responsible for the segregation of Filipinos and Americans. Should a reader be unclear as to this accusation, Crow states with more emphasis that,

“The social seclusion of the American woman (i.e., her unwillingness to socialize with Filipinos) would not be so deplorable if there was any justification for it, other than race prejudice!”

-from filipinawives.com

Simply amazing stuff! 100 years and nothing's changed. Everyone hates competition, especially American Women.

As bad as those stats are for Australia, almost 70 percent of American women are either overweight or obese. So you have a seven in ten chance of meeting a fat American woman. If 43 percent of Australian women are overweight or obese, it means more than half of them are in reasonable shape. The best thing about Australia is that I get longer vacations than in the States, about 5-6 weeks a year versus the measly 2 I used to have in the US, so i get plenty of time to escape and visit other countries.

Maybe that's why Aussie gals are getting fatter - too many holidays (and as you know, holidays mean BBQs and copious amounts of beer!) and not enough sex to burn it all off!! :)

By the way...does anyone happen to know what percentage of American MEN are overweight or obese?

***Edit: Answered my own question. [url]http://www.obesity.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_US.shtml[/url]
Seems American women might just have as much to complain about as American men do!

RN,

"and not enough sex to burn it all off!! :)"

I'm puzzled about the :). What's so funny about not enough sex:(?


On a whole different note,

A Dutch uni professor said that polygamy is the way for the future with so many women working and not enough cuddle time at home. The ladies should consider sharing their man.
I give that idea a big 'YEA!'.

American women are simply the mirror images of American men. I know at least a dozen men in their fifties with the big beer gut thing going on, and wearing sweats, and the grey disheveled beard who would not consider going out with a woman any older than forty, particularly if she was twenty or more pounds overweight. They have really high standards for their women and rarely compromise. Guess what? Most haven't been laid lately and their prospects aren't getting any better.

It really amazes these guys that a hot woman in her twenties or thirties who can get any guy she wants, picks a younger more attractive man or a guy who makes lots of money. Duh! Just as we American men don't give the time of day to unattractive women, neither do American women give the time of day to beer bellied guys with lousy jobs. It's supply and demand.

It's funny though. I work with a lot of young, tall, good-looking guys and I never hear them complain about American women. Usually just about how often they get laid and such. Even in other countries another factor might be in play. Given a choice between Tom Cruise or Danny DeVito, most women of other countries would pick Tom, however Danny would have chicks lined up around the block. I think people in other countries think Americans all have tons of money and that helps. It's interesting that when they get to the states they become instantly as picky as American women. It would appear to me they just don't have as many wealthy guys to pick from over there. I just don't believe they pass though a force-field as they step off the plane that turns them into gold-diggers instantly.

But other than that I agree with you guys. The days have long since passed that I can go into a night club and walk out with a hot chick. So I pick up hookers, and every so often travel to foreign countries where I pay women to pretend like I'm still young and handsome. And then I go home to my forty-eight year old S/O with the saggy boobs and wake up.

Civ2000

There's NOTHING funny about not having enough sex!!! Aside from the fact that I miss the sex itself, I've never been fitter than I was when I was a working girl. It tones up every muscle in your body and (depending on how enthusiastic you are, I guess) is an excellent cardio-vascular workout as well. It's also a brilliant stress-buster.

Here's a bizarre theory...what if it's the fact that we're not having as much sex as we used to, that's contributing to the ridiculously high rates of obesity and stress-related illness in Western society? What would happen if all those overweight and/or stressed out people started having regular sex? The physical exercise is obviously going to help tone bodies and reduce stress and frustration. The endorphins released at orgasm are much more potent than chocolate or icecream, reducing the desire to indulge in 'comfort food'. Having someone worship your body on a regular basis is exceedingly good for your self-esteem (low self-esteem is a very common excuse for depression and overeating) and when you feel sexy and desirable, you pay more attention to how you're treating your body and what junk you're putting into it. And it's well documented that the more sex you have, the more you want. Not to mention the more sex you're having, the more other people find you physically attractive (its true!) Eventually everyone would be banging away like rabbits and obesity and stress would become a thing of the past.

So what are you politicians waiting for? The only way to kick-start this thing is to decriminalise sex work, recognise hookers as health professionals and brothels as treatment clinics, subsidise escort appointments for both men and women and lets get F*CKING! The health of the Western world depends on it!!! :p

"Just as we American men don't give the time of day to unattractive women, neither do American women give the time of day to beer bellied guys with lousy jobs".

AMEN TO THAT! Everyone here knows that's the truth, but they very rarely say it out loud. I don't know how many times over the years I've been called 'frigid' etc, by men 20 or 30 years older than me, with beer bellies, BO and ketchup stains down the front of their unwashed shirts, because I said no to their advances. Face it - as frustrating as it is, most of us will never sleep with a supermodel. Most 50 year olds will never do it with someone under 25. Most overweight and/or unattractive people won't be able to pick up the hottest person in the room. Doesn't mean that it will NEVER happen - but the chances are pretty darn slim.

And us girls aren't immune to this, either. There are plenty of women out there targeting men who are waaaay out of their league. They're passing up the good-natured, cuddly gentleman their own age, in the hope of scoring themselves a young, fit toyboy with buns of steel. And they end up going home alone. Why would a young stud choose a thirty-five year old mother of two, when there are 100 young, fit cuties in the club that he can take his pick from?

"Why would a young stud choose a thirty-five year old mother of two, when there are 100 young, fit cuties in the club that he can take his pick from?"

This is why the term.............."So many women, so little time" applies to guys like me :)

That's the spirit, Tang!! :)

Money plays a big role in finding an American woman, but it plays a role with women anywhere. Women around the world will rarely consider a foreigner unless he is perceived to be affluent. That is why people who come from more affluent countries to less affluent societies are treated well by women. I think in America a man's looks are irrelevant, there are many cases of good looking women marrying rather unattractive men for the sole purpose of finding a meal ticket. If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money. In fact a foriegn lady might even be worse because she will have some ridiculously high expectations. I have heard of guys bringing in foreign women only to be dumped/divorced once the green card came or they found a richer better looking guy. The general consensus around the world associates American males with being financially well to do. The best situation is for American men living abroad to take advantage of the fact that there is little competition outside the US in finding a good date.

Ever look at the ladies who are in first class?

If you are well-heeled enough (or lucky enough to get the upgrade from Biz, as is my case) you know what I am talking about.

Musicians, board level businessmen, celebrities of almost any stripe, are almost exclusively accompanied by stunning partners (RN, please note the gender neutrality here before you blast me!)

While there are seriously powerful/wealthy/important people who fly coach, the first class types are either serious trash or seriously wealthy. The wealthy ones are never ugly/fat/unfashionable, unless they are the man.

Money = power = attractive. Nothing new here. I do not think this is an exclusively "American woman" problem. "Trophy partners" cross all borders and cultural lines IMHO.

Cheers,

Sporadic

rn, you're right about anyone going toward the deep end when he/she can't even stay afloat without a flotation device, much less being able to swim in those waters. when i was a lot younger (my teens) i had tastes that gravitated toward the ubermodel. as i've accumulated a few years, i've relaxed my standards (not lowered them) to include those who could possibly bring something to the table that i may not be able to perceive at the moment. i still like ultra-attractive women, but i refuse to play their game by falling at their feet like some sailor made mad by the song of the sirens. i've looked twice (discreetly) at some women that my friends may turn up their at. i have my tastes and they have theirs.

my peeve is when women expect the sky when they are in need of a serious reality check that will show them they are worthy only of the soil the stand on. the following is an example from which i posted quite a while back.

i was chatting with a friend (a czech chick who was a former model and yes, i wanted to fuck the shit out of her) and she told me that a mutual acquiantance was lamenting the fact that she was w/o a bf. this chick told me that elizabeth was too picky and that she wanted to date guys who wore italian suits, drove high-end sports cars and either had cash like no tomorrow or were high-powered executives. i won't begrudge a woman that fantasy, but this was her standard and she was wondering why she had ni man in her life! to put things in perspective, elizabeth would rate a 4 at best on any man's scale. this level of cluelessness in women amazes me. and rn, before you reach again for the hatchet to bury in my skull, take note that in the past, i've acknowledged that i'm no adonis and i've never held a double standard regarding said subject. it's the "fork-tongued" phenomena (women saying one thing and meaning another and expecting a man to believe it outright) that has me yelling foul.

In order to see this issue more clearly, we must focus on the vast middle area in this discussion. I'm not crying because I can't go out to a bar here in the states, bring a 10 home and bang her. Super-hot girls (and guys) have always lived in a different universe than you or I, and that's only natural.

For all intents and purposes and for the sake of my argument, I'm referring to average looking males and average looking females. No massive beer-bellies or heifers. I'm talking about young and middle-aged people in the prime of their dating and babymaking lives.

As I see it, the problem is not 10s acting like 10s. That kind of behavior is to be expected. The problem is 5,6, and 7s acting like they're 10s. It's this artificially inflated idea of self-worth that has no basis in reality that really disgusts a lot a guys I know. She's an average normal looking girl, not a super hot chick. And yet she won't give an average looking guy the time of day.

A perfect example of this is Sinanju Master's Elizabeth who will only date guys who wear Italian suits and drive Ferraris. And she's a 4! One might be forgiven for thinking that this girl is simply out of her mind, an insane anomaly not to be concerned with. Sadly, her belief system is shared by many of her sisters.

Where does this type of thinking come from? It's no big mystery.

From the moment they sprout boobs, females in this country are taught that the world, no, make that the universe, revolves around them. Hollywood, MTV, Cosmo reinforce this idea of "Girl Power!", advising females to "Kick Butt!" like your favorite Charlie's Angel, and don't worry, because you don't need a man to be complete.

Does anyone remember the last song from one of pop's current princesses, Avril Lavigne, called Don't Tell Me?

Avril's song is basically about this poor slob who has been spending time with her lately. He has listened to her crying about whatever bullshit crisis is currently embroiling her life. Yes, he is functioning as an emotional tampon, but that's not the key point here. The point is her response to his advances. Not content to simply brush him off and move on, she threatens to assault him:

"Don't think that you're charming, the fact that your arm is now around my neck
If you touch my pants I'll have to kick your ass and make you never forget"

She ends the song with:

"Better off that way ...
I'm better off alone anyway"

Well, baby, if present trends continue, you will get your wish. As noted here recently by PsyberZombie, in his most excellent post which can be read here:

[url]http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=342344&postcount=2129[/url]

Throughout the western world, the number of single person households is on the rise: "In the UK census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001." Nearly 15% growth in ten years. That's not a demographic blip, that's a full-on shift.

CBGBConnisur, I agree with you when you say: "If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money."

Perhaps this thread would be more appropriatly titled "Women in American Society," because any woman, once exposed to the atmosphere and options available in this great country of ours, will most likely begin behaving, and making decisions similar to her native American sisters.

I am reminded of an old saying (actually posted by somebody here, I think) that goes something like:

"The man has all the money, but the woman has all the pussy."

Each party has something the other wants, so arrangements are made, agreements are arrived at. Right or wrong, that's how it's worked for thousands of years.

But that expression is no longer accurate. Revised for this modern era, to reflect the ascendence of the two-income household and female financial independence, one might say:

"The man has half of the money, but the woman also has half the money and still all of the pussy." (not to mention ALL of the rights when it comes to divorce court and family court.) How can you arrive at a deal when one side holds vastly more bargaining chips? I mean, really?

Some will no doubt object to my boiling down of the vast complexity of male/female relationships to something as simplistic as "dealmaking." But when you get down to it, isn't that all it truly is?

So, what then? Am I advocating a return to the days of female servitude and 2nd class citizenship? Of course not. But, I for one am truly concerned for the future. Birthrates in ALL of the major western countries are falling, with the exception of the U.S. Men and women are so sick of each other's perceived bullshit that they have just about given up trying to get along, settling for loveless marriages or no marriage at all. And the only reason the U.S. birthrate isn't falling as well is due to the projected increase of the Hispanic population, through immigration and through the relatively high birthrate of Hispanics already here.

I feel that the gulf of perception that exists between the sexes in the industrialized world is practically insurmountable. The wants and needs of each gender are so far apart from what the other is willing or able to provide as to be laughable. I have no answers, only dread for the future.

LS, actually, I posted your paraphrased saying a while back. A friend told it to me a LONG TOME AGO and it goes like this: "Women have HALF the money and ALL the pussy", but you got the idea.

In your analysis, you also pulled back the curtain to expose the Great and powerful OZ. Women will gush about finding the perfect partner (making you believe YOU are the one) gush about the wedding (after all THAT is what it's all about; a day dedicated SOLELY to THEM to feed their ego) but fail to plan ahead of time for the feelings that will be most common the day AFTER "Happily Ever After". If a guy feels trapped when a woman brings up the issue of marriage, he has good reason as stated by LS in his most recent post. Coming to the table BEFORE marriage, the balance of power is about as evenly balanced as it's ever going to get because the woman has no legal and sexual "Sword of Damocles" hanging over his head to force compliance if something makes him balk. After the paper is signed and the wedding completed, he can kiss half his assets and ALL his freedom (NOT freedom to fuck around, I don't advocate cheating by EITHER sex) goodbye. Regarding LS's post on increasing single-dom and the dears I just stated, why WOULD a guy want to enter into such a situation? Especially if the party that gains power after the marriage ALREADY has an inflated sense of ENTITLEMENT?

CBGB has the perfect solution: marry them but keep them in their own country.

Seems like women always ask that age-old question: "why are men so afraid of commitment"?

Reading the last few posts here seems to pretty much answer that question.

I think an American male who visits a foreign country with a lower standard of living than the US will find that his rapport with local women will be better than with women back home. The perception being that Americans are rich, what criteria makes a person "rich" varies around the world. In some parts of Europe, where there is double digit unemployment most women will be happy with a guy with a job. The more affluent the society the more they will expect. Go to a Latin American country and any American male in good health will be treated like Hugh Hefner.

The Czech girl mentioned below lives in the States so her expectations and attitude are no different than most native born American women. Go to her home country and the attitude of local women will be much different.

'The World' doesn't see Americans as rich. POOR PEOPLE see Americans as rich - just as they see people from Australia and Britain and any other 'developed' country as being rich. If *I* travelled to a developing nation, I'd probably have local men falling over themselves to impress me enough to get a plane ticket to Australia. There are people in every country looking for a free meal ticket, including your own. Go down to your local 'trailor park' in an Armani suit and a BMW and you'll be beating women off with a stick! Its not because you're American - its because you can give them a way out of the hell they're living in.

And then, of course, there's gold diggers - who exist in every country and in BOTH genders. Men and women who are willing to lie, cheat and prostitute themselves in order to live a life of luxury at someone else's expense. (For the record, I can probably overlook deception from a person motivated by the desperation of poverty - I have nothing but contempt for gold diggers).

But one thing many of you seem to be forgetting when comparing 'foreign' women in their OWN country to American women, is the power of the 'holiday romance'. If I have the choice of an Aussie bloke or an American tourist for a one nighter, who am I gonna pick? The guy with the sexy accent who is leaving the country in a few days, or the ordinary guy on the street who is probably gonna ask for my phone number and hassle me for sex at a later date? The American guy is also in 'holiday mode', so he's more likely to take me out and show me a good time, PLUS he's more likely to spoil me rotten and treat me like a princess in order to get into my pants as quickly as possible, because time is not on his side. Local girls are always gonna find a tourist an attractive option for a no-strings shag.

And 'foreigners' are exotic (especially if you are a white person in a dark-skinned country or vice versa). I'm sure my Aussie accent and tanned skin would have a good degree of pulling power in other countries (certainly more than it has here, anyway!). And I, personally, love African-American men and Latin women. And I could sit and listen to an Irishman or an Eastender or a Texan cowboy all night long. A black man with a Southern drawl who can't pick up in his own country, would have a whoooole lotta luck in mine. :)

It's not ALL about the money, you know. Some of us just like to f*ck exotic strangers who are guaranteed to bugger off in the morning and never come back! LOL

holy crap! it's... like... rn peered into my head regarding the "holiday romance" thing! lolol

If we go with the equation that Long Stroker notes, which is that women in American society are earning pretty much the same as men with the same opportunities, and are working in much the same numbers, then doesn't that shift the "divorce is hell because she gets half of my shit" equation? Doesn't it really become "our shit" in a much truer sense?

Well said, RN, regarding the attraction of foreigners and the exotic.

RN are you telling us that sometimes you just want to pick up a stranger and fuck him blind and not see him again? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!

By the way Daddy lives in The Great State of Texas Hmmmmmmmm maybe I should be going to Oz?

I am quited interested in this discussion now that I have checked out this board. Thanks Long Stroker. This doesnt necessarily pertain to American women, but I think I am in love with a Peruvian girl I met on my recent trip. I have been extremely cynical and jaded about women in recent years and to discover mongering in foreign countries has been like a godsend to me. Now I dont look at American women or make any attempt at all to even befriend them, much less date or bang them. Anyway I met this girl and she was a real sweetheart and I felt enamored very quickly. She was just so completely opposite (so I think) of anyone here in the states I had ever dated.

I have thought about the quotes I have heard here recently that love equals defeat. The other night on the phone I uttered the dreaded phrase, "I love you." She had been saying it to me repeatedly in peru and on the phone after I returned. AS soon as the words left my mouth I thought, "oh shit, now you've fucked up. Why did you say that you fucking idiot?" I felt like I had just lost all the power leverage, or power, I possessed in the relationship and handed it over to her. Now I feel like I have lost what got her to want me in the first place. The fact that I was so unattainable to her. There has been no apparent change in her attitude that I can detect. Still sweet as sugar, still asks me for nothing, pays her own english lessons and turned down my offer to help her out a little. As in, too good to be true. But now theres no going back, I cant call her and say, "hey, Im not really sure if love you or not, I was in a good mood and happy to here your voice and got carried away. Lets take it slow and see what happens." This would effectively fuck everything up.

Do most of you guys really believe that to love is to lose with the vast majority of women, or just american women? How do you feel in these matters when it comes to foreign women in third world countries such as Peru? Is there no hope anymore for loving someone and winning? Sometimes I feel that way, more often than not. I had become convinced that I would remain single forever and just find a nice girl or two to visit in other countries as often as I can, or just go and monger exclusively and forget finding a nice girl altogether.

If I sound confused and fucked up about all this its because I am. I dont know what to believe anymore or what to do when it comes to potential relationships. I always feel that no matter what I do, I am going to either make the wrong decision, or lose no matter what I do. Well, I guess thats all for now. maybe someone can straighten me out.

Later

Milkster

Sounds like [b]Mikster[/b] has finally met a Trvly Feminine Woman for the first time in his life

Go back and read Post # 2129 here to see what I mean , Mikster

I agree with PS as an American it's difficult for us to understand the depth of love latinas are capable of. Even the pro's engage in a way that American women don't. Like you I found a really wonderful women in South America and sometimes it's difficult to accept that She does love me as She says She does. Is it a forever thing? It's too soon to tell but Shes as amazing as anybody I've ever met. I understand your conundrum though, perhaps you do have loving feelings for this woman but are still unsure if it's a lifelong thing who knows. Good luck sorting it out.

Having been married to an American women and my first Mongering adventures to Asia in 1992. I realized 6 years into my marriage that I needed to somehow dump the *****...It took my nearly 6 years longer to grow the balls to do just that. During the time loving those asian babes. Koreans, chinese, Thai, Phillipinas. I got caught with a Korean babe. Finally I was able to get out.

Since then I have been happy chases Asian and Latina girls. I really enjoy the Asians... I will finally marry a great Chinese Babe...She's even a sales rep who makes great money... Can anyone say whoooyeah!!! Retirement....Any way stay away from American women they suck money hungry bitches who should all learn that they need to take care of their men not squeeze them for everything they have.

Chicago62

I know I'm probably biased because of my own recent experience, but here's my opinion....cherish the moment, darlin'. The woman you care about, cares about you. It may be love or it may be just lust, but you'll never know if you don't give it a chance. Don't question it. Don't jinx it. And for gawd's sake, don't run away from it!!! Just enjoy it, babe. You're a lucky man. :)

..the divorce equation should shift toward a more even and equitable distribution of assets. But, isn't it true that the wife gets the house in 9 out of 10 cases and custody of the kids, too? American family court will presume that the man has neither the desire nor the ability to care for his offspring by himself, unless he can under burden of proof prove otherwise. Kind of like guilty until proven innocent?

Yes, both husband and wife may toil equally to build a home and a family, but if in the end, the woman takes possession of all that really matters, where does that leave the man?

... is the title of a book that is highly recommended reading for men every·where

Not only do women hold all the aces when it comes to Divorce Court , but they also have out·rageous advantages in [u]every[/u] area of Life : from the criminal justice system to the work·place to health care [ just as many men die of prostate cancer as women do from breast cancer , so where are [i]our[/i] little ribbons and billions in Research ?? ]

Here's a small taste of the book , and bear in mind that it was written before the phrase "hostile work·place environment" turned every female co·worker in·to a little Femi·nazi who keeps her male compatriots quaking in their boots at even the thought of telling an off·color Joke let alone hanging a pin·up calender in their cubicle =


[URL]http://*******.com/6t2ly[/URL]

LS, I think it's too early to tell how things will shake out, given that the serious rise to working equity is a relatively recent phenomena. Yes, in most cases custody is awarded to the woman, but it's also true that most guys do not request primary or sole custody and when they do fight for custody they have a far better chance of getting it. The difference in the percentage of men and women who don't seek custody is massive, and that can't simply be dismissed as a contributing cause for the disparity in custodial or asset distribution situations.

Unless men SAY they want custody they're not going to get it. And those guys (and I know several) who fight for custody out of a desire to continue to control their soon-to-be ex-spouses (generally guys who did the same during the marriage, but given that men tend to view wife and kids as a package deal also some more) certainly don't help the equation. The truth is that child support isn't really awarded as disproportionately as you might expect -- it's about 60/40 in favor of women. And given that, the majority of all marriages that end in divorce do so where there are kids, the issue really comes down to handling the kids.

Joint custody is really the wedge issue -- according to a study done in 1997, in states that had a high level of encouraging joint physical custody the divorce rate declined approximately twice as much as in states that did so in a moderate sense, and eight times as much as in places that heavily favored sole custody. That reduction may have to do with custody, control, or perhaps just how a court may potentially view splitting up assets.

But joint custody also makes it a bit inaccurate to say that 9 times out of 10 the woman gets custody -- women get sole custody about 72% of the time, with joint custody in about 16% of the cases. Still a disparity, but if I recall correctly it's not that dramatically different than the actual percentage of requests by guys to get all or a portion of custody of the kids.

I don't think it's really guilty until presumed innocent: I think it's guilty until demonstrated interested.

Thanks for the input to my posting, I appreciate it. We'll see how things shake out. I had a couple other things on my mind as well.

She told me the other day that she wanted to get a job so she wouldnt need me to help her with english school. Its a long story why she is not currently working, but trust me I verified it and its not an issue. Anyway, she wrote me last night and said she had obtained employment at a nearby casino as a waitress, the beverage kind, not in the restaurant if they even have one. I have been to casinos in Lima and elsewhere and I know what she is in for, and I suspect that she also knows. As in getting hit on by customers constantly, as well as other workers there. She probably has to wear a short skirt. I am wondering if this is a red flag at all. I was upset at first, and she got real upset for me not liking the idea and taking up some of these issues. Anyway, what are your thoughts on this? Anything to worry about in your opinions?

On a more topical note i am also wondering about how we act and treat the ladies from places like Peru. WE all know in America you need to be kind of a jerk and have the I dont give a shit attitude, dont say I love you, dont be sweet and dont act like a sensitive pus, etc. etc. When some of you guys were romancing the latin women, did you have the same attitude, as in being a jerk, a bad boy, etc? Or did you give show them your feelings and be a nice guy and truly be yourself and give in to how you really wanted to be? I had mixed feelings about this when I was there, I wasnt sure exactly if they really wanted a nice guy or not, or if it was just bullshit. They all say they hate the "machistas" so on would think being the nice guy would be the way to go. Its just so unnatural to be that way after living in the states all my life and learning how to get women here.

Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Later

Mikster

Of course she's upset. You may be only concerned for her welfare, but she's only hearing you say two things -- a) she belongs to YOU and you don't want any other men looking at her and b) you don't TRUST her.

Women are going to be hit on in ANY job they take, short skirt or not. I've been sexually harassed in a number of workplaces and innocently chatted up in others and none of those jobs involved me wearing a short skirt or serving drinks. It's just what happens to women in a public place, period. She has just as much chance of getting hit on while she does her grocery shopping.

She's a big girl. If a man hits on her, she'll deal with it. A man asking her out is completely harmless - it's how she responds to the offer that matters. And that's what she's upset about. That you obviously don't trust her enough to make the right decision when the time comes.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but the only thing that's really at risk of harm if she takes this job, is your ego. I'm sure the thought of her being ogled by other men every night will drive you crazy and play on your insecurities. It happens to ALL of us. But the fact is, if she loves you, you have nothing to fear. And if it turns out she *is* the type to sleep around, then it's better you know now than later when you're talking about marriage and babies.

And don't forget - other men may be drooling all over her, but YOU are the one she's sleeping with. Being with someone hot enough to attract that sort of attention should be BOOSTING your ego, not denting it. :)

Mikster,

RN has just given you some very sage advice. If your girl is a real "looker", then she's been getting hit on constantly anyway. She'll be okay.
And regarding the second part of your question: having lived in Mexico for 5 years really spoiled me rotten. I guess it was because I DID"NT have to play the "jerk" game while I was there. It was the only case I could ever recall (in my experience) where "just being yourself" actually did work for me. Maybe that's why I always felt more comfortable south of border than in my own country; playing the jerk role doesn't feel so natural when it doesn't match your real personality.

I just wanted to let you know that I think your job concerns are overblown. I have been living in Lima for the past year and am a regular at all the major casinos here.

First off I am 51 and recently married a 23 y/o peruana. Before everyone spams me, I am aware there is only one good reason to get married in Peru and my wife is definetly it!

There are only a couple of casinos in town that would attract foriegn men with money. Marriott/Miraflores/Hacienda. It is more likely your girl is working at a tragemoneda which is just a penny slot place filled with old women.

My friends(all mongers) and I go to the casinos 2-3 times a week and I have never seen one try to pick up a casino chic. I admit they are great to look at but as you well know it is way too easy to just pick them up on the street.

In fact I would be more concerned if she were working as a liquor model in her miniskirt or seethru jumpsuit at santa Isabel on a friday afternoon. ohoh just gave away a little secret.

Anyway before I moved down here I made sure my wife had no desire to live in the states and was happy with her life down here. I truly believe that is the key.

Buena Suerte,

LimaBusy

I'm involved with a wonderful Portena and as Smut Villian says you can indeed be yourself. However their are crucial differences between Latina's and American Women. They really, really no shit about it want you to be a strong alpha male. They will look to you for leadership and to take care of them. Regarding major desicions they enjoy having a say but are most comfortable if you make the desicion. Most of the men there treat them as children and think they have nothing to contribute, if you show them more respect and love they will pay it back 10 fold. However and I have found this to be important, they will test you to guage the size of you heuvos. Do not be afraid to lay down the law, never be afraid to say "No this won't work", forcefully if nessicary. If they discover that your afraid or intimidated by them forget it, it's over. I'm not advocating any kind of violance, when I say forcefully I'm talking about excersizing your power by will not violantly.

The responsibilty I think comes in making desicions not based on what's best for you but what's best for both of you. Treat them well, bring them gifts, tell them how much you love her if you do, in general the idea of "giving themselves compleatly" has more value there. Personally knowing the woman I refer to has taught me more about being a "man" than anything else I've ever experianced.

This information while not true in 100% of the cases I've experianced has proved to be so in over 90%. It's not everybody's cup of tea but I sure like it.

Oh yes and my girl has this delightful way of using sex to manipulate me, it's not a power struggle as we are used to here but rather a ratcheting up of enthusiasm when I've made her really happy.

I'm in agreement with RN as far as the job. It doesn't matter where she works, if she's attractive she's going to be hit on. Personally I get a kick out of it when other men desire the woman I'm with because she's shagging me and not them.

Enjoy

Guys,

Here is a fairly young monger... I'm 29 y.o. I traveled to Thailand, Russia, and Cyprus to practice the hobby. Currently I'm not practicing the hobby because I am involved with a wonderful woman. I am seriously torn inside. On the one hand, I like the company of this woman and feel that I can have a future with her. On the other hand, I know, if I marry her I'll miss activities like picking up gorgeous women from Moscow nightclubs or fucking Thai go-go girls. When I do a reality check, I have only four weeks of time for the hobby, the rest of the year I live my ordinary life with friends, family etc. It doesn't seem very reasonable to sacrify an entire life for a few moments of wild fun. But, then marriage... is it any good? People who've seen more of life, I appreciated your input. How was your marriage experience like? Would you prefer a stable OK marriage to the hobby? Why- why not? People who are older than 35, single and committed to the hobby- how do you feel inside? Is the hobby sufficient for your satisfaction and happiness or are you craving for a deeper connection with a special someone? And those of who are cheating on your wives- how do you guys feel? Lots of questions... I appreciated if you would offer your two cents...

If I were you, I would go for the lady. Mongering is a dead end and the mongering destinations will always be awash with poor, unfortunate women in search of a pay check. Of course, a commitment takes, well, commitment. Next time you go to Bangkok or somewhere, check out the old dudes sitting around the lobby of the Nana Hotel. Even the hookers joke about them. If you want them to be joking about you in the years ahead, stay the course. All it takes is a little bit of money and some free time to burn. You can boast to the world about your lady friend but you cannot do the same about some cheap pick up you found in Nana parking lot.

Hedonist, I agree with Domino. The upside of getting into a relationship that really works is much higher than the upside of mongering. Yes, as is repeatedly testified here, it doesn't always work out, but for a good deal of people it does. I'd take a good marriage over mongering any day. In your judgement the woman you're with is wonderful, and if that's truly the case then tossing that away doesn't make sense.

I think you state the equation correctly -- and in a decision between how much you're going to get laid on vacation and how you're going to live in your normal life, I say make the normal life work.

Headonist you don't say where this lady is from. If she is American and hasn't been raised in a cave by a pack of wolves than I say run like the wind my friend, run as you have never run before. I've been married twice to local talent and I can honestly say I will never again so much as date an American woman.

I don't disagree with totaly with Joe and Domino. There is something pathetic about 70 year old men propped up on V or C nailing 20 year old women. However; the ones I've talked to could give a fuck less what anybody thinks of their mongering, they thank god for the advanced pharmacuticle industry and grab another chica.

Personally, after a half a million visits to BsAs I found a really sweet woman not in the life. I've never in my life been treated by a woman as I am by her. If you found a nice Dyve, or Chica or whatever they call them in the orient I would suggest looking at the relationship. But with an American, no way. I really think it comes down to an issue of socialization. In most parts of the world the son's in a family are treated as Prince's and the daughters are expected to serve the family. Here they get treated as Daddy's little girl and they grow up with an expectation of entitlement, their needs and desires are what is important to them.

On this forum and in countless other places the experiance is the same. Sweet, sweet, sweet until they pop a few kids, their girlfriends start telling them what a looser you are for not being C level at some fortune 500 company, then file for divorce and turn you into a paycheck.

So there you have it, my dos centavos.

Daddy

[QUOTE=Domino]Next time you go to Bangkok or somewhere, check out the old dudes sitting around the lobby of the Nana Hotel. Even the hookers joke about them. If you want them to be joking about you in the years ahead, stay the course. [/QUOTE]And I'm still able to go to Bangkok and bang 20 year-old girls, then I did something right.

Laughing at me? Any 70 year-old who still gets joy out of sex has my respect. They have the last laugh.

SL

Marriage (even a happy one) doesn't guarantee a happy life. Remember, once you cross that threshold of matrimony, certain things will be unavailable to you. For instance, depending upon your own composure and the self-esteem and confidence of your spouse, that equation will determine if you can even LOOK at another woman, much less have a conversation with one. As much as I hate to admit it, overwhelmingly, it is the WOMAN who controls the emotional and sexual direction of the relationship. If she commits marital fraud by being Ms. Wonderful in the beginning and then turns into Mrs. Hyde and changes the geography of the playing field after the wedding, you can kiss a sane home life goodbye. To be fair by exposing the underbelly of BOTH sexes, when the afterglow of the wedding has faded, BOTH spouses get too comfortable (lazy) and that familiarity eventually breeds contempt. The spouses are no longer forced to present their best side to the other, because the incentive to impress no longer exists. “I have him/her now and I don’t have to work as hard to keep him/her happy” is the law of the land. That is a HUGE contributor to each spouse having a jaded view of the other. Examples of HIS thoughts: “Man, she’s letting herself get fat”, “She doesn’t dress up anymore”, “She doesn’t want sex as much anymore”. Examples of HER thoughts: “He’s turning into a slob”, “That spare tire is growing every time I look at it”, “He used to rock my world in bed, now he just wants to make his deposit and roll over and sleep”. BOTH eventually look outside the marriage to regain what they had BEFORE they got married.

Hedonist, I can only speak from my own frame of reference. Therefore, IF I ever got married, it would be to a woman who has many intangible traits that would be admirable by ANYONE’S standard. If I ever DID land such a woman, you can bet your ass that I would CONTINUE to do the things I did to attract her BEFORE we got married LONG AFTER the wedding day. Like anyone, I’ve done a lot of stupid shit in my life, but having the knowledge I do NOW, engaging in behavior that would turn such a spouse OFF would NOT be one of them.

On the other hand, if a 70 year old dude is STILL getting his freak on, I can't hate on that! More power to ya Gramps!

hedonist,

each of these guys make a good point in his own way, but the only correct answer can come from only one place - [b]you[/b].

like many here, i monger because i happen to like sex and don't feel like jumping through a bunch of hoops to get it, i don't do [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], and i don't feel like having pussy being used as a weapon against me. but let's face it: life is more than getting some strange ass on a saturday night in tijuana (or bangkok, or...). you can always get some p4p nookie, but it's damned rare that you get to share it with someone who might actually be worth it. but make damned sure she's worth the commitment; if you chose wisely then she may make you forget about mongering :) if not, then you'll end up right back here (trust me on this one!).

bottom line: it's better to have tried, and failed, than to spend the rest of your life wondering "what if...?". but it still helps to know what you're getting into before diving right in.

"Bottom line: it's better to have tried, and failed, than to spend the rest of your life wondering "what if...?"."

Can I get you to pop down here and have a chat to the man that *I'm* in love with???? :)

The Nana Hotel Lobby guys are ok and seem happy enough with life in general and, no doubt, the price of Viagra in particular. I am sure they get their rocks off on occasion and we can all nod and wink at that. But it is not a life in the same way a relationship is. Sure, they sit around talking of their back aches, their 401 ks and the cute ladies they joked with in the bar the previous night. They are not drunken European soccer hooligans and they all seem to be well set financially: lots of talk of their top of the range cars back home. But they don't really have a home anymore coz they are now Nana lobby lizards, forming tangential relationships with ladies, bell boys and other mongers who treat them tangentially. A relationship, on the other hand, has to be more than a good roll in the hay which, when phrased like that, seems like something juveniles do.

I hope this advice is useful. See me in Nana lobby for more;)

Hedonist,

At a very tender age I tried marriage for six faithful years. Thankfully, a lack of good sex was never an issue. It was the other things that finally made me get out. I was a very frugal person and most of my paycheck went to maintaining my wife and kid. If my wife wanted something she always got it from me. For the most part I lived to support my family and didn't spend much on myself, however one payday I bought something for less than $30 to entertain myself at home since I was no longer allowed to go anywhere unaccompanied. Well, that turned out to be a mistake because she bitched at me for a week about being selfish. Visiting my parents without her was out of the question even though she hated them, so I was expected to not visit them period. She read all my letters from friends and family, privacy was a thing of the past. I couldn't even run to the grocery store or pharmacy without her wanting to come along. Her friends added to the drama with stories about how their men did them wrong. I was prohibited from sending gifts to my parents at Christmas because "they didn't need it" but she sent to hers.

Eventually, I re-grew my balls and asked for a divorce. She flew into a rage and vowed to make me pay for "ruining" her life, and pay I did. Now tens of thousands of dollars later I'm finally free again. You don't know what freedom is until you've lost it and then regained it. I'm not saying that mongering is the best way to spend the rest of your life and neither am I saying that marriage is always bad. However, I will say this. Never marry an American woman, and never marry any woman and bring her into the USA or any Western country where the divorce laws are biased against men. You will regret it. Of course, you can choose to ignore my advice and find out all of this yourself much like I did when wiser folks warned me.

There is something in North American society that causes women to believe that men exist solely to provide for their needs. I'm not interested in finding out exactly what that is, but at least I can help stop someone else from unwittingly becoming a slave or a lap dog. It will always be sweet and nice before you sign that contract, then it will change. The change might be overnight or it might be gradual but it's guaranteed to be more than you bargained for.

If you want to stop mongering and enjoy your relationship with your girlfriend then by all means do so, but do not marry. Eventually, when you do not give her the diamond ring, the house in the suburbs, the SUV and a few kids she will move on and look for another sucker. Meanwhile, save and invest your money so that you can move abroad to a country where women still care about men and don't use kids as the ultimate weapon. You have more time than you realize. At 40-45 yrs of age you can settle down somewhere and have a family if that's what you want. For now enjoy your girlfriend, mongering or both because you'll only be young once.

Ouch, not sure if they had grown kids or anything.

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/divorce.settlement.ap/index.html[/url]

Not sure the court system would award a cheating husband that much if she was the wealthier partner.

Choca Monger, it's great to have the voice of experience to chime in every now and then with words of wisdom. I'm glad for you that only SIX years were spent in incarceration.

A friend of mine who got married on November 15 2003 (he jokingly refers to it as 11/15, much in the same manner the general public SERIOUSLY refers to 9/11) has all but been totally written off by our social circle. After the honeymoon was well behind them, I would drop by his house for about an hour on Sunday afternoons (when I was sure that they would be winding down the day's activities) to say hello and chat. I then felt that the wife resented my company and I eventually stopped seeing him. In fact, I haven't even CALLLED him on his work cell for months. The last time he got to go out with us (we don't go out to strip bars or anything, just a night of video games and beer) the warden (whoops! I meant WIFE) said: "This counts as your time with the guys". He didn't even get to spend TWO HOURS with us. I saw the beaten down, broken look on his face and I thought of prisoners on Death Row. Poor bastard... On TOP of all this, this is his second marriage! His first wife was a MAJOR LEAGUE B**** and is at this very moment, trying to squeeze MORE $$ out of him for child support. His current wife has issues that I think may fester to the point where they will cause her to walk. I won't go into details, but it was just an illustration of my point.

I've been married well over 20 years and not [i]once[/i] have I ever had to ask "permission" to spend money on myself or spend time with my friends. Yes, if it's a notably large purchase we'll talk about it, but that's the nature of any two people dealing with a budget, and even then it's a question of when and not whether. Now, I'm not racking up a garage full of extra sports cars just because I like them in lieu of paying the gas bill, but I sure as hell don't have to worry about whether I want some $50 trinket at any point. And I most definitely don't ever have to worry about having friends over, going over to hang out with them, heading off to say, spend all night playing poker or hitting the bars or whatever. Do I consider what's going on at home? Do I consider whether I'm spending more time with my friends than with my wife and make sure she's getting enough attention and affection? Sure I do -- that's how actual adults in relationships act -- but I make the decision. And my wife has the same options. I can certainly manage on my own if she wants to go out with her friends once in a while.

Anyone, American man or otherwise, who puts up with the previously mentioned types of obnoxious controlling conduct fully deserves to have his balls kept locked in a drawer and have his wife keep the key. And the shrew wife is not simply a US phenomenom by any means -- I know guys elsewhere in the same boat, and most of the examples of the battle-ax woman type that are found in literature aren't from American writers...

Those kind of "rules" often come into effect because the guy isn't doing enough to make things work at home in the first place. Or because he's made so big a point of marrying some gorgeous hot piece of ass that he doesn't bother to figure out whether or not she's a total manipulating b*tch the rest of the time.

If you let a dog think it's ok to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on you, it will. And you deserve it.

Some of you on this thread always post the worst that can happen. Myself, like Joe, have been married (and to an American woman, twice) and what Chocha Monger describes doesn't come close to my reality. I, as well, never needed permission to spend money on myself, nor did I need permission to visit my family and/or friends. I would have laughed at the mere suggestion and then did it anyway. And reading my personal mail? No way. It sounds like he got stuck with an insecure controlling *****. A lot of women get stuck with guys like that too.

Now, I've been divorced twice, as well as have most of my friends and there's not a single one of us paying alimony. Most of us got married to college educated women and were in two income households. Sure you could marry some gold-digging, lazy, and unemployable clout, but most of us didn't. Things didn't work out for a variety of reasons. Most of the American men and women I know got married because they love each other, not for the financial gain. Of course most of us are not rich; myself a journeyman welder making $28.72 an hour currently. Not bad money, but nevertheless the gold-diggers don't line up at my door.

So, my advice to hedonist is this: Get Married. Yes, even if she's an American woman. I'm glad for both my marriages and still wouldn't go anything differently. I'd still marry both of them. The fun of traveling thousands of miles to pay for sex pales in comparison to waking up each morning with a woman you truly love and who loves you as well.

Now if you ask these guys if they'd get married if they knew the gal wouldn't sue for alimony, the sex would continue to be good, they could still have their personal lives, etc, etc., most would be singing a different tune. It's hard for a lot of guys (women too) to want to get hurt all over again. So, there's a tendency not to risk it.

The one out of two marriages ends in divorce statistic is a bit askew. If that's the case (and they never mention this), then one out of two marriages survive until one partner dies. Pretty good odds there. And then you figure in the Johnny Carsons and Elizabeth Taylors who they also figure into the stats and that artificially affects the odds. I think if you did a study of how many marriages survive where the partners get married for the right reasons, are committed to making the marriage work, and remain faithful, I think you'd probably be up to 2 out of 3 marriages last.

So, give the relationship a chance. And if you're really worried get a prenup.

Civ2000

Civ is right. I DO present the worst case scenario ONLY to shed some light on what COULD happen if a guy doesn't keep his wits about him or do his research. An ounce of prevention is worth 18 years of cure!

If Hedonist's girl is a true gem worthy of walking down the aisle and later walking together upon the path of Life, then by all means he should marry her with alacrity! Hell, I'd even volunteer to throw rice as they walk out of the church!

I spent a couple of weeks in Europe and came back to my sobering everyday reality. I got on a train to work and this complete fatass chick sat right next to me and squeezed me in. It was kind of a punch in the face bringing me back to reality that American women simply don't cut it anymore. After spending some time in Europe seeing slender statuesque beauties that would actually give me the time of day, it was very sobering that I only get two weeks a year to escape my hellish experiences with American women. Traveling around the world in search of women is the greatest pleasure in the world. I have traveled to nearly 24 different countries in every region of the world, what amazes me is that everywhere I have gone, I have seen textbook examples of class, beauty, and womanliness, that doesn't seem to present itself in the US, UK, and Canada. I have ruled out bitchiness as being an Anglosaxon trait because Australian and Kiwi women are very ladylike compared to their North American and British counterparts. It really sucks with the current geopolitical situation that travel abroad is getting tougher and tougher. Still with some of the women I have met while abroad I don't mind sticking my neck out for them. I get only a measly two weeks a year, a lady I met in Australia says she gets 8 weeks a year, I think I am migrating to Ozzie.

Have you ever noticed that the eagle on our nation's emblem holds an olive branch in one set of talons and arrows in the other? We wish for the best case senario, world peace. On the other hand we are prepared for the worst case senario which is having to wage war. In fact, we're so well prepared that we're better than anyone else at waging war.

Now, I'm aware that my case was pretty close to or at as bad as it gets. This will not be the case for everyone. People will have different experiences and that is why we come to this forum to exchange the lessons learned from them. Every fisherman will not catch a sardine, some will catch a shark and have to cut it loose. Anyway, that is just probability at work and not necessarily due to any action on the part of the hapless fisherman who gets ripped apart by the shark.

Another thing I would like to mention is that these women who sound as though they've come right out of a Grimms Brother's fairytale work pretty hard to conceal their evil side until they get the one ring. After my disaster I learned to flush out even the most skillful actresses but sometimes it can take a while depending on their talent. I'm sure that bad women are not limited to the USA I have met a few from abroad also, hence my advice to Hedonist to stack the odds in his favor as much as possible.

Maybe Lady Luck will smile on Hedonist and he will never know the pain of being neutered by his woman. In the end he will read all these posts and make his own decision. If he walks down the aisle I'll be right there with Sinanju Master throwing rice, and if she lops off his balls down the road I'll be there to comfort him too.

Guys,

Thanks a lot for your input. They were all very helpful. I have a lean towards marrying her. Right now it feels OK to give up mongering. I just don't know the degree of my addiction to mongering. A good friend mine got married three years ago. He and her wife sweared to remain faithful no matter what. They were really in love. He was faithful until one day he came accross a pair of big breasts freely bouncing under a sweater without limitations bra... If fucked her, he would break his promise. If he didn't fuck her, he would cheat himself because he wanted to fuck her as hell. Well, eventually he fucked her and didn't tell his wife... He is still married and loves his wife, but he also fucks other women at certain intervals. This is of course hypocrasy, but I really can't blame him. Pretty much all my friends are doing the same. It seems to me that this is the only way men can satisfy their natural sexual instincts and at the same time conform to the requirements of our societies- have a warm home with a loving wife and fuck a ***** once in a while to get rid of any tension caused by the monotony of commitment... The reason of my hesitation is that this is not something that I want to have in my own life...

Anyways... I thank you all for taking time to share your thoughts with me.

Court dismisses man's theft claim against lover who kept semen

CHICAGO - An appeals court said a man can press a claim for emotional distress after learning a former lover had used his sperm to have a baby. But he can’t claim theft, the ruling said, because the sperm were hers to keep.

The ruling Wednesday by the Illinois Appellate Court sends Dr. Richard O. Phillips’ distress case back to trial court.

Phillips accuses Dr. Sharon Irons of a “calculated, profound personal betrayal” after their affair six years ago, saying she secretly kept semen after they had oral sex, then used it to get pregnant.

He said he didn’t find out about the child for nearly two years, when Irons filed a paternity lawsuit. DNA tests confirmed Phillips was the father, the court papers state.

Phillips was ordered to pay about $800 a month in child support, said Irons’ attorney, Enrico Mirabelli.

'Trapped in a nightmare'

Phillips sued Irons, claiming he has had trouble sleeping and eating and has been haunted by “feelings of being trapped in a nightmare,” court papers state.

Irons responded that her alleged actions weren’t “truly extreme and outrageous” and that Phillips’ pain wasn’t bad enough to merit a lawsuit. The circuit court agreed and dismissed Phillips’ lawsuit in 2003.

But the higher court ruled that, if Phillips’ story is true, Irons “deceitfully engaged in sexual acts, which no reasonable person would expect could result in pregnancy, to use plaintiff’s sperm in an unorthodox, unanticipated manner yielding extreme consequences.”

The judges backed the lower court decision to dismiss the fraud and theft claims, agreeing with Irons that she didn’t steal the sperm.

“She asserts that when plaintiff 'delivered' his sperm, it was a gift — an absolute and irrevocable transfer of title to property from a donor to a donee,” the decision said. “There was no agreement that the original deposit would be returned upon request.”

Phillips is representing himself in the case. He could not be reached for comment Thursday.

“There’s a 5-year-old child here,” Mirabelli said. “Imagine how a child feels when your father says he feels emotionally damaged by your birth.”

© 2005 The Associated Press

i had read that article posted by long stroker a while ago and debated it with a few of my buddies. the whole not swallowing the semen thing is indeed extreme but the artificial insemination part is not new. while i was in college i heard of cases where guys had sex with girls and used a condom but then left it in girl's waste paper basket or somewhere else within her reach, the guys would think that it was all over after cumming and going in a hurry. however, once in a while a scheming girl would apparently use the still viable sperm in the condom to inseminate herself. given the age group involved, i wouldn't imagine that anything more complex than a finger dipped in the sperm and then inserted in the vagina would be necessary to accomplish the goal.

girls can get very serious about trapping mr. right by any means necessary once they hit that 25 to 30 yrs old stretch and the looks start fading and the ass widening. therefore, be sure that you use spermicidally lubricated condoms to render your gift useless and if you blow your tor**** in her oral cavity then confirm ingestion. this all sounds like a hassle but it might save you $800 per month in child support payments and the mental anguish. ;-)

young mongers beware! i stand ready to be chided for posting the negative.

Its interesting reading the last two posts. I had a very similar thing happen. And to be fair to this board and its subject, it was not with an American woman. All I can say is be careful if you are with a female that might want to latch on to you. Most importantly when she has reached/passed the early 30s mark and has (I suppose) become deperate. It is a lot easier than I thought for them to become impregnated.

Fellas, also beware the chicks who will take a needle pin and insert it into the center of an unopened condom while your away, in the bathroom, whatever. It happens more than we may know. I have heard numerous bitches call in to talk radio shows and confess that they do it to get pregnant.

There is an evil, but hightly justified, way to get back at a girl who you know is going into the toilet trash can to get some of your jiz out of the used condom. I dont remember the name of the stuff you buy, but its 1000 times hotter than hot sauce and when she inserts it into her vagina lets just say that she will think a million times about ever doing it again. After she's out of the hospital that is. hehehe Protect your love gunk like a treasure chest, that's what it is.

My opinion on the other topic, is never marry an american woman. Just not worth any risk to me no matter how she looks or acts. Not anymore. Take you chances with foreign women, preferably latinas or asians in my opinion.

Milkster

Mikster, that stunt reminds me of the prank that the geeks pulled on the jocks in "Revenge of the Nerds". Does anyone remember that? The stunt where they washed the jockstraps of the athletes in BEN GAY and when the athletes donned their jockstraps, they were writhing in ball-burning agony! Hehehehe! MAN, who comes UP with this stuff??

I might admit that there are few American women that are actually okay, but they are in a very small minority. I think American women as a whole are very narrow minded and shallow. Its not uncommon for an American man to have a relationship with a foreign women but you will never see this situation vice versa. A foreign man who comes to the US will probably be asked to get lost by most American females. To most American women an immigrant is someone who is poor and less of a man. Its all about money with American females. To American men an immigrant woman can be seen as exotic, different, and exciting, an escape from the ordinary. It just proves that men are more open minded and tolerant than women.

Amen brother, you nailed it right on the head. I know this firsthand being an immigrant myself.

I have met a lot of idiots in other countries who think that the typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie or Jennifer Aniston. I remember this one idiot, a total loser and a bum with no job, he was Bulgarian and had a knockout good looking girlfriend who went to work while he sat on his ass. He kept talking about Jennifer A in front of his girlfriend, and I said to myself,"You *******, you got a fine woman next to you who takes your shit, even though you're a bum without a job, what makes you think you're gonna get Jennifer A???!!". There are millions of these idiots around the world who believe everything they see on TV and movies. They don't know good they have it, the same applies for Australia, most Australian dudes are total idiots.

If American women are so awful, what should we make of American men? Can they be so totally different? I think lots of posters here have just got burned by a handfull of American women and they are bitter. Fact is, most American women are in stable relationships, often with jerks, and you canot deny that. What about your American mothers, sisters, cousins? Are they all jerks too? Maybe America's social dynamics are different from those of dirt poor countries but I would like to hear someone praise American women for achange, if only to break the monotony of this thread.

I, for one, don't bash American women. I love American women. Although I often agree that some are just out to take you for all you have, that doesn't remotely describe most of the women I know. I have quite a few women friends and none of them are the gold-digging, conniving types you read about here. And like I've said before, they are simply mirror images of American men.

This isn't meant to insult anyone here, but when I was twenty-years-old I did not pick up hookers. Why? Because I didn't need to. I could get all the young fresh meat I wanted. So, now that I'm approaching fifty, and still like to bang twenty-year-old girls, it does get frustrating that I can't just take them home like I used to. I could start bashing American women because one half my age won't go out with me, and say how wonderful some Chilean woman is because she will, but it doesn't change the fact.

I think if us guys were to chase the chubby fifty year old who goes to work everyday and is lonely like us, we wouldn't be bashing American women. We would find them great companions who weren't looking to break the bank. The problem with me is I just don't find them attractive (even though I'm a chubby, greying, fifty-something). I still chase the young girls and in the one in fifty times she actually wants to go out with me, quess what? She's after my money. Shock!

Bottom-line: I love American women. If I want some eighteen-year-old girl to gush over me like I'm God's gift to women: I'll hop a plane and visit Cambodia.

Civ2000

OK I´ll come out of the closet. Although my mother and sister are decent and not bad for being American women, my dad and brother in law deserve and would have done 1000% better overseas (where I live). One of my female cousins is a dike (although she is great an I love her as a cousin), the other three are also great but basically nasty skanks. American women suck in every way. Sure, before leaving the US I had been with A FEW nice ones, but you can go years there between those streaks of luck. In many places in Europe and S America you are simply inundated by beautiful, sexy, educated, sweet, friendly babes 24/7. I just nailed one that I met in my internet cafe last week. It wasnt even intentional. That never happened to me in the USA.

BTW, last night I was in a pool hall and there was an American girl playing 2 tables away. She stuck out like a sore thumb due to her LOUD OBNOXIUOS VOICE, repulsive masculine appearance, attitute, clothes, gestures, gait, etc...She also was wearing those stupid thick nerd bumblebee glasses that about 80% of American women that come down here seem to wear. What is the deal with that, do they all wear those now in the USA. One thing that amazes me is that you would think that something would wear off on these US biatches when they spend time in Europe/SA all day with real women running around. But they look/act even worse! Maybe just a defense mechanism or just oblivion.

M

Young women are made pretty so young guys will bang them so the species will carry on into the void. Nature has programmed it so that most human couples grow old together, much like swans who are higher up the ladder of being than we are. There are exceptions to this general rule. Some guys, Civ2000 and Domino being two, like to bang younger women. Nature does not mind as long as most people do not follow suit.

American women know if they give away their pussy too early, they will pay big time for it. They are caught in a rapidly changing society and must protect themselves. Lots of men feel threatened by them but not by some 2 bit disposable Third World skank

When I hung around Mexico with the super rich, I used to often share a car with this young Mexican dude who used to flit up to San Diego where he would bang rich white chicks. He thought it amazing that they never even asked him his name. I didn't as I was more interesed in banging his maid.

I find white women are still attracted to me for the same reasons they have always been attracted to me. Like Frank Sinatra, as I get older, I simply modulate the notes I sing and I leave the high notes to the young guys who are all dick and no brains.

You must also remember women, much more than men, are social creatures. They like to hang around together, chat, shop, ***** etc. Look at Sex and the City type cluck cluck all together stuff. Men are more the loner type. What does this mean? It means if you are banging a younger chick, all her friends are telling her you are an old creep and thye should bail out/whack you/go on Jerry Springer/fuck Domino instead. This even happens to

John T Domino

I'm just a regular average guy. I certainly don't look like Denzel Washington and I don't have a million dollars in the bank(screw banks by the way) but I have a great personality. So naturally, no American women will acknowledge me.

I travel once in a while, I have been with hot women, hotter than I could have imagined being involved with. Their reasoning, it's simple. They liked me because I'm trustworthy, respectful and have a great sense of humor. American women don't value those things. Unless it comes in an 80,000 dollar car. Then they have all the interest in the world.

More power to you and its your opinion and right to voice it. I couldnt disagree with you more. Sure, there are some good ones, but who cares? We are talking in vast generalities here and in general American women are nothing like their cousins from many, many other countries. Any guy who thinks the average American women is equal to, or superior, to the other ladies of the world is a possible pussy, and idiot, or has simply given up and is living with the fact that he doesnt want, or cant get for whatever reason, anything better. More power to you again. Its your life. You can have all the American bitches and the rest of us will go and take the real women who know the real meaning of the word relationship.

American men have been pussified beyond belief, beaten down by a society that doesnt want them to behave like men, and convinces them that "sex in the city sluts" are about the best there is out there for them. You can have them. Be my guest.

As for me and most of my brethren here, we know the real truth of the American society, women in general here, and the complete foolishness to believe that these creatures calling themselves women are remotely tied to any of their past ancestors in this country.

I, for one, am amazed at the men of seattle. They carry their male "purses" around, take orders from their girlfriends, lose their friends on orders from the wives and girlfriends and have their balls in her purse. If you ever want to see the absolute epitome of what has happened to the american male one need only walk around Seattle and see the pussified idiots calling themselves men.

I dont know how to explain it better, you have to see if for yourself to believe it. The only place left in this country where men still are men is the deep south, and that is quickly evaporating as even they are feeling the heat of being a "sensitive, sweet guy." Fuck that shit. You can have it.

You may think these dikes in womens clothing are into you, but you are a fool. They are only into themselves. They fool you with their hot young looks and then go for the kill. Any man is a fool to get married to an American snobby *****. They are all bitches in my book, not worthy of my cock or my time.

No, I have not been burned. I have personally dumped all American sluts that I have dated because I am a realist and learned their game early on. I am the "asshole" that American women love, but could care less about. I pride myself on that. I used to be a nice guy with women and I ended up jacking off to Swank Magazine every night. When I turned ugly, nasty, and bad I got balled whenever I wanted. Two plus two is four baby. I can add. I know what works here and I dont like it. I am sick of it. I can be myself in other countries and not put on the facade of being an asshole and I love it.

My two cents. Take it or leave. Could care less. Thats my attitude in country, only way to get laid by hot ass. In peru, colombia, japan, I can be Mr. Nice and get all the pussy I can handle and actually have feelings. What an idea!!!!

Later boys.

Milkster the enlightened

Hey Mikster,

I must say that you have truly summed it up. You are very real and you actualy hit the nail on the head multiple times.

I wish more guys had the balls to see it all for what it is. In fact, what you've said is lilke gospel, and I will review your words twice a day in the morning and in the night before I go to sleep.

Peace

When referring to American Women, I think this term also applies to those who have become "Americanized" because in essence, they're the same as those who are "natives". I say this seeing how all women (or approx. 98%) in the U.S. share the same virtues and values regardless of race, culture and creed. In this aspect there are no barriers or differences (I wish the same was true in the workplace). It's really amazing and alarming. The expectations from a Latina, Asian or European in the U.S. are the same as those of any American woman. Back in their homelands, things are different; for the most part they're not like that, but once they become "Americanized" - it all goes to waste. One rather alarming factor I noticed was how much of this "Americanization" has come into play in other countries as well. I'm not saying that it is equivalent (thank God for that) but I have noticed it more than before when I've visited South America and Mexico. Especially the big border towns of Mexico on the north where they are so close to the U.S. and by proximity would seem to have gotten "infected". This is something I would like to hear more about in this site because even though it is not as bad, similar attitudes do also exist elsewhere. Just my two cents worth!!!

Civ 2000,

When I was 20 yo living in the USA I wasnt banging hookers either, you know why? Because I had no money. If you were getting fresh meat 24/7 in college in the USA, you werent the only one but I would say pertain to a segment of less than 10% of guys. Most of whom had the only kind of power you could have at that age (non-monetary) like being on the all-american football team. College is only 10 years ago for me. What are you talking about.

Is rhyming slang for a Yank. If you think 1st world babes are waiting for American men to fuck them, jump in a time capsule. This is 2005, not 1945. England has been off rationing for over 50 years, Germany surrendered 60 years ago, the Korean war is also over (an armistice was declared oh around 1954 or so) and all that influences attitutes. Today, you will only be seen as a check waving liberator by the wretched of the earth, by those who are dirt poor. In 1st world Japan, for example, only a very small minority of women are interested in the white trash of Asia; they are the small minority who want out of Japan's social straight jacket. Girls just wanna have fun and if you are a fun living, free psending wooden plank, your dick will get a yank.

If anyone thinks some upper class Latina will fuck them or even look at them with anything but contempt, they know nothing about society south of the Rio Grande, imho. So, by all means ***** all you like about American women. But just remember: another American, or two, is banging each and every one of them. If you are not and if they are burning you, to paraphrase the great monger, JFK, ask not what their **** can do for you but what you can do for their ****. Develop some more strings to your bow, take a few leaves out of my book and you too will be a happy, AW loving monger.

Peace and pussy to all.
"Lonely women make good lovers".

[QUOTE=Domino]Young women are made pretty so young guys will bang them so the species will carry on into the void. Nature has programmed it so that most human couples grow old together, much like swans who are higher up the ladder of being than we are. [/QUOTE]

You've posted a bunch of debateable things here. I'll just comment on this one. Growing old together is a fairly recent phenomenon - maybe 200 years at the most. Prior to that it was lucky if either partner lived past 40. That leaves about 199,000 years of "nature's programming" exactly the opposite of your assertion. Whatever point you're trying to make, please keep your pseudo-biological facts accurate.

Global life expectancy is, according to the CIA Factbook, Weighted Average 67.47 years [url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop&int=-1[/url]

This, of course, does not break down for sex. In Mozambique, it is 31.3, something similar to what it may have been in Europe and White America some 200 years ago. One would also have to stabilize the variance over time and take out extraneous variables such as wars, famines and diseases past and present. Then, whilst noting that marriage itself and the nuclear family are both relatively recent byproducts of economic advance, one could still comfortably assert that most humans, like swans, are pre programmed to form one relationship with a member of the opposite sex and grow old with that person, whilst nothing that the definition of age, like Bill Clinton's definition of sex is rather mercurial and changes with the ages (which is why we would have to stablize the variance). Priests, mongers and others are exceptions to this general rule of society.
The mongers here, though they are an eclectic bunch, are not representative of society at large. For example, the sexual revolution of the 1970s was not as widespread as we were held to believe. Many did not partake in it.

Now that that is clear: let us hear it for American women and try to go at least a day without bitching the same hoary bs about them.

Bottom line: Some opinions here need to be challenged so that those who have been burned by American or other women may pick themselves up and get on with life. If you want to go to a third world country and buy love, by all means do. But don't expect Oprah Winfrey to hold you up as a role model.

[QUOTE=Domino]whilst nothing that the definition of age, like Bill Clinton's definition of sex is rather mercurial and changes with the ages [/QUOTE]

The definition of age changes with the ages? Is that like saying that it depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

Now you've moved on to complete nonsense. The only thing you've said that is pertinent, and may be true, is that you can assert anything you want. That doesn't make it so.

The bottom line is that you insist humans are "pre-programmed" to grow old with one partner. That is not only unsupported, it is contrary to the facts. For almost all of human history, it was lucky if the parents were alive long enough to get one set of kids out the door. Until the industrial revolution people simply didn't grow old in any sense of the word. Since as a species we didn't live long enough to get old, we aren't pre-programmed for any kind of old age. Neither are we programmed for monogamy, or to become swans, or any other mystical claptrap you choose to make up. Quoting off-point statistics from the CIA doesn't change that.

As for American women and Oprah, I expect her to continue to tell them that they remain oppressed, and that their oppressors are American men. The women in the audience will all nod for the camera, and they, along with all the ladies in TV land will once again be validated in their permanent resentment towards American men. All except the ones that you encounter of course.

Hardbarg: Global life table are relevant as life expectancy and the definition of old is different in different parts of the world and for different classes, just as they always have been. 31.3 is the expected life expectancy in Mozambique but it is considered young on this board. The norm for humans, as for swans is monogamy.

Your last paragraph about Oprah is well written and has a witty barb against me. However, please pause and consider the cynical attitude it displays towards American women. My bottom line is continually droning on in this thread about how awful American women are helps nobody, least of all those who may have suffered at their hands.

I do not think that anyone wakes up in the morning and decides to log into the WSG Forum to bash American women just for the hell of it. I'm sure most guys would rather be off somewhere engaged in sordid acts of debauchery.

American women are not bad in all respects. I have several who I would consider to good friends and decent people in general. They can be generous and even dependable up to a point. However, this only applies if your relationship is strictly platonic. The moment that you stick your dick into them things will change quickly and the entitlement mentality will come into force. These otherwise nice women would begin to think that you owe them big time because they let you stick your cock in their precious hole. A relationship where each person took care of their share of the tab suddenly becomes one where you are expected to foot the entire bill. Most American women regard pussy as a commodity and if you indulge in it you are expected to pay a high price. Seeing pussy as a commodity is not uniquely American but you have to admit that the women here place an outrageous value on their goods while trying to cheat you out of a fair deal. They even go so far as to pretend that they don't expect any returns for their services rendered. The really audacious ones will attempt to make you pre-pay without any intention of completing the transaction. What truly amazes me though is that my female friends think that this behavior is totally normal and acceptable. Yet still, they would never attempt to steal from a store or swindle someone out of money under other circumstances. Of course, this might just be due to the fact that the law would penalize them for such behavior, but there is no pussy police as it were when it comes to sex so they can get away with it.

We twenty-something guys in America can often get nice young tight "teaser pussy". It's called teaser pussy because the first piece is free and usually very good. The goal here is to get you hooked so that you come back for repeat helpings. If you go back for more you'll find out that the poor girl has a ton of credit card debt, can't make her rent or car payment that month, or that she ran up her cell phone bill and it's about to be cut off. The key to dealing with this is to take the teaser but avoid signing up for the service. This can be good for occasional relief but since it is always a one time deal you can forget having a relationship.

I just want to say one more thing to the older guys on here. Don't think that the young girls target only older guys for their money because they do the same thing with young handsome guys with rock hard bodies. I think that the young guys might fare better with girls looking for marriage along with the cash but that's about it.

Domino, sorry pal, but you dont know what the fuck your talking about. You say that high class women south of the Rio Grande wont even look at us gringos, or if they do, look with contempt. I have never heard such bullshit in all my life. Thats all I go for when I go after "regular" girls in Peru. I was engaged to an upper class Peruvian who was white as rice and her family lived in a compound. She was nuts for me. The high class girls hate the machista attitude as much as the lower class girls do. It was so easy for me to pick up hot, white, well off chicks in Peru its laughable. Did the same thing in Cali Colombia. In Peru, its easy to find them. Go to the most exclusive clubs, high end restaurants, the mall, and they are all over the place. I had another girlfriend in Lima who was so hot I could cum just watching her undress. Upper class family, she was chief of an entire office for Nextel and her father was a high ranking government official who had other companies on the side.


It was SO fucking easy I still cant believe that you said that. I dont know what your problem is, but apparently you too, have become a pussified american male who doesnt know it yet. Go out with the Oprah clones brother, you can have them.
As for me, I will keep banging hot, white, upper class Peruvians while mongering the day away.

Enjoy your lovely, misjudged American she males.

Later

Milkster

A few months ago, I was sitting in an airport lobby, saw two beautiful Russian twins, they were gorgeous, and they were immediately making passes at me. So I went up to them and talked someone into switching seats, got to sit next to them on the flight, and I have to defend American women is just futile, when so many better looking and better behaving women are found elsewhere.

mikster: i am not sure why you are making smart assed remarks about me and american shemales; maybe it is some way of having a shot at american females and me, the messenger. the whole key with getting on with women is bringing something they want to the party. that something is not money. women will always opt for freedom (give me liberty or death) if given half a chance.

i know fat, balding, ugly guys in their 50s and 60s who have young american women lining up for the privilege of being banged by them. why? because they bring romance and music into their lives; they sing their way into their panties. look at bill clinton, mr smoothie; he would have no trouble sweet talking his way into many girls' panties even if he never rose to political prominence. he is a charmer and, more importantly, he plays the sax.

interesting you mention peru where a small group of white crypto fascists have bled the country since pizarro and spain's other thugs raped it centuries ago. forgive me if i don't fully believe you. check out the japan-nampa board. the all conquering white american guys there can't even get a fucking date, because they don't know how to get a date in japan, the usa or anywhere else. did thye ever go to high school?

if these peruvians/russians are the diamonds you say they are, they would be very much americanized and would be into shopping malls etc and would know ameircans tend to have more $$ than sugar cane farmers down the road.

sure, many guys here have been hit hard by american/british/australian women. shit happns, learn by your mistakes, stop bitching, get on with your life and look at the sunny side of things.

Domino,

I, for one, actually appreciate your comments as of late. You remind us that before we start going too far in ripping on American "b_tches" we should take a hard look at ourselves. It helps give a balanced viewpoint on this particular subject.

[b]HOWEVER...[/b]

Many of those same viewpoints probably come from guys who speak from experience. Speaking only for myself, I have personally witnessed most of the feminine shortcomings mentioned here. My theory is that some people don't see those shortcomings because, let's face it, not everyone has had the opportunity to travel abroad and see the differences; if you've been raised on nothing but beans and rice then it's hard to believe someone who tells you of the Porterhouse steak they just had last night.

In addition, a lot of those differences exist because of different cultures. If a Latina, for example, is used to nothing but macho jerks in her dating pool, then imagine what a refreshing breath of fresh air a polite foriegner can be? Likewise, if a Westerner sees mostly gullible, pussified men in her dating scene then I imagine a more "manly" (not necessarily macho, but manly) male can be an intriguing prospect for her (as an example, the first time I ate dinner at my Mexican ex-girlfriends' house she was floored when I helped wash the dishes - go figure?).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: (1) I agree this is more than a matter of "all Western women are fat, emasculating b_tches"; but (2) there is a distinct reason why soooo many of the guys posting here are saying basically the same things.

And I agree with you. In Australia, guys bomb the family courts: you get serious time in jail for stunts like that. I know guys there holding down 3 and 4 jobs to pay their alimony; totally stressed out and they love a good bar room brawl just to relieve the stress. I know one lady deliberately got pregnant by a very nice guy because she knew he would fork up for her and baby. I have no complaints with any of that and it is not confined to the USA.

My complaint is: this thread in particular sounds like an Oprah Winfrey for males show. A long long time ago, when I had free afternoon time, I would watch some Oprah or Jerry Springer or whatever, just the same way I drift in here. Two or three episodes were more than enough. It is the same with constantly bitching about American women. It takes two to tango.

Here in Japan, women pick me up for a bit of rough. I have actually been picked up on the street and paid to butt fuck a lady. Others pick me up because I am upper class. Others pick me up because of my artistic talents. Whatever floats their boat.

There is nothing new in any of this. Sailors have always scored well becauce they spend when they hit town and they are exotic. They give the illusion of a dream. Look at Thailand. When Operation Cobra hits town and the US Marines, Navy - and Coastguard :) - swarm ashore, the women come out of the woodwork to fuck them. Why? Because the Americans are the dream prize. And women, all women, every single woman in the world, love a dream. Your job is to be that dream. And the one card not to play is the money card.

CBGB,

Yes, I would have to agree with your last paragraph 100%; I've definitely found the action much easier while travelling abroad. In fact, your entire post only illustrates my point about cultural differences being a key factor. Some speak of these differences as if they were genetic, but if that were true then these women wouldn't change when relocating to the States.

Domino,

You weren't in the Coast Guard by chance, were you? I'm former Navy myself (and I've had the opportunity to swim ashore in Thailand a few times BTW ;) )

Domino, didnt really mean to attack you, sorry. The comments you made about upper class latin women was so foreign to me that it actually did make me laugh. I have never had the experience you mention. Those girls dont have to go for me, they usually stay in their own social circles and marry other well off, upper class latino men. They dont need me at all and had full knowledge that I was not rich because thats the first thing I tell women south of the border. I make no bones about it because I dont have time to waste. They still go out with me, fall in love from time to time and want me to live in their country rather then vice versa. I am no stud or Don Juan, I just dont care and I put the moves on anyone who makes me hot. As for them being fascists, I havent run across that too much but thats another topic for another day. This isnt only confined to Lima, I had the same experiences in Cali and Bogota. I simple think your wrong so we can agree to disagree.

I also disagree that most, or all, of imported third world women change and become americanized when they show up here. We will have to disagree with that one too.

As for Japan, I seriously dont know what any decent guys problem is in picking up women there. I was in Tokyo and had no problems whatsoever. I have posted in the past my method of "importing" japanese women to come here to visit me. They hop on planes and stay in my apartment for a week or so and then leave. Their not *****s, not bad girls, and have regular jobs and lives. Half of them have turned out to be smoking hot upon arrival. Next one due in May. I have no reason to bullshit you on any of this, I am anonomyous and will receive no accolades for my exploits. Its just a simple contribution to the board. I like Japanese women alot. I find them much much softer, sweeter, and more sensual then American women.

I never said ALL American women were bad. I distinctly remember saying I am talking in vast generalities and that is because in general its true. I am not going to search out for the one diamond in a sea of shit. Not when I can go elsewhere, or have them come here so easily and readily available. I have met 6 women from down south with USA Tourist Visas (an obvious sign they are well off) who have payed their own way here just to stay with me and see if there is a future between us. I usually get the itch for them to leave because I believe that I am simply not the marrying type. I know my weaknesses and my biggest one is strange pussy and until I either master it, or grow up, or whatever I will probably remain single. Giving in to my base desires is too easy and too much fun. hehehe

If it seems to bother so much I will cease bashing American women. You want them, their all yours. Good luck.

Later

Milkster

Maybe not all third-world women change or become Americanized when they show up here, but they certainly catch-on very quickly to the standards and expectations enforced and put forth. Practices that have been commonly accepted and interwoven into American society (read she-males and pussified/chump males).

Personally, I agree with the equal rights, opportunities and treatment of both sexes. What I don't agree with is when this is used, often times, to take advantage - and be protected while doing so - by the crazy and insane divorce laws that exist in this country.

Experiences certainly vary here, and what some are able to do successfully, others have failed or are just not able to. My hat off to those who have managed to pull off their stunts with these ladies; seriously, and my sombrero off especially to those who have done/ do so with American women. By all means.

Is [b][u]THIS[/b][/u] what it takes to get with American females?!?!

[quote]he hit me so what?
Reply to: [email]anon-66746441@**********.org[/email]
Date: 2005-04-03, 5:12PM EDT


i dont CARE what my friends and family say! im in LOVE!!!! my boyfriend hit me the other night and gave me a black eye but it was MY FAULT! Why cant people understnd that? he loves me if he didn't then he wouldn't care when I messup. SO QUIT TELLING ME I SHOULD LEAVE HIM BECAUSE IM NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[u](quoted from **********.org, "rants and raves" section)[/u]
[/quote]

Call me crazy if you want, but in my experience logical people do not think like this. Two decades of "men should be more sensitive" and [u]this[/u] is what we get.

And people wonder why guys on in this forum keep complaining.

There are plenty of women who will stay in their home countries, especially with the news and media in a lot of countries, a lot of people know that life in America is no fairy tale. I think in more developed societies(Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.) there is less incentive for them to pick up their bags and leave. Considering the events of the past few years and the huge conservative shift in US politics and culture, you might see more people trying to get a taste of life in other places. Even in less developed places like Brazil, women have no problems finding a good local guy.

I do believe that if you bring a woman back home, expect that she will change, it also depends upon her ability to assimilate into American society. For this reason women from minority groups tend to change less than those who can fit in with the majority.

when in rome do as the romans do. that is what the last few posts on foreign women coming to the u.s. brings to mind. like cyberdas mentioned some men are fortunate to have things work out for them. it might be due to having carefully selected an honest woman with a belief in retaining her culture, or due to pure luck. no one knows for sure. it can go either way even if you stack the odds in your favor. i guess it depends on whether one thinks the prize to be won is worth the risk of a crushing devastating defeat.

i have seen women from equality conscious countries like sweden where women pay their share of the bill on dates rapidly adapt the american model of having the man pay for everything. the story of women from third world countries filing for divorce after receiving their permanent visas is a common one. in fairness some guys bring this on themselves by not taking the time to screen out the visa hunters. average joe suddenly finds himself the object of the amorous attentions of a perfect 10 and throws caution to the wind. i have seen this too many times. in fact, i had to mediate for one such couple a few weeks ago.

however, american women usually take it upon themselves to show "poor ignorant" immigrant women how things are done in america. they let them know that a petite exotic beauty does not have to cook, clean or wash for her mere middle class husband and that she should in fact be ruling the roost. she is educated on the favorable terms of divorce and child support, sometimes these incentives prove to be too much to resist for a woman who spent all of her life in poverty.

as a young man i sometimes find myself here in the u.s. yearning to awake in the arms of an olive-skinned, dark-eyed, raven-haired beauty whose company i share when abroad. yet still, i sleep alone in the u.s. because it wouldn't take much to tor**** my battle damaged finances and send them to the ocean floor permanently. i literally can't afford the risk of a marital relationship in the u.s. i am thankful that in my twenties i was finally able to temper the impetuous nature of my cock with wisdom. i hope to save enough money over the years to expatriate and start a business. if that is not possible and i must bring a woman into the wild west then at least i'll have a secret stash in an off-shore haven as an insurance policy.

wsg provides more than just information on mongering. it lets guys know that they're not out there alone in the quest for a relationship with women that doesn't involve financial ruin. thanks to all for sharing their often hard earned experience.

I honestly believe that if you bring a good foreign woman back to the US, she will change. She will realize how much more she is worth in the US than back home, where there are many women who can easily replace her. Bring a beautiful and exotic woman back home and she will be stared and drooled at like a Lamborghini, and like a Lamborghini, she will get real expensive. If you keep her in the lot, you won't have to deal with maintenance costs, in other words stay with her in her home country. I think self-employed people and business owners tend to have the best chances of moving abroad than anyone else in this respect. A lot of countries welcome Americans to open up businesses in their countries, I have seen this all over, in Europe, in Asia, in SA, all over.

chocha monger - it looks like we're in similar boats, my friend. i more than halfway through my twenties, thanking god that i didn't fall victim to the siren call of some young lovely, only to experience first the dull pain of marriage and second the sharp pain of divorce. came close, though.

my game plan now is to attempt to position myself to profit from this new emerging global economic structure. we are in for an amazing fucking ride, believe me. i've been reading thomas friedman's newest book, "the world is flat." a good read, if only to get an idea of the groundwork and underpinnings of this new economic era. friedman's observations are astute, but i believe some of his conclusions are way off base. he does say that the next ten years will be "creative destruction on steriods," which i think is accurate.

in my estimation, the social incentives for living in the us have long been fading. trying to build a meaningful relationship with a female in america is next to impossible, unless you are willing to sumbit to a lifetime of financial servitude to her. fuck that. i'm not that stupid.

i've seen here posted by many different mongers something to the effect of: make your money in the us, and then go abroad to spend it with friendly, happy women. good advice.

however, if friedman is to be believed, the ecomonic incentives to living in the us are also fading as well, with more speed than we would like to believe. in the next ten years, disruptive technologies are going to put downward pressure on the us labor market like never before in history.

so i realized, that without these social or economic benefits to living here, why the fuck should i stay? to bear witness to the slow, inexorable decline of this once great nation? no, thanks, i'd rather be boning some little hottie in a country somewhere not polluted by the socially corrosive forces of feminism. i might even want to get married and have a family someday. but, sadly, not here in the us.

so, that's it. i'm making my long term plans for escape. this is for real. i would appreciate any comments, both positive and negative. if you think this is the stupidest shit you've ever heard of, please tell me.

p.s. cbgb - in your experience, can you tell me what kinds of businesses you've seen americans run successfully in sa and asia?

Just come to India once and see the attitude changing fast enough, to see the trend in globalization, if you thought american women are worst, you might get her a partner here in india, unlike in america, in india, women are being paid 3 times more than men salery on average, result, more and more women, are single in 30's, unless ofcourse they have it all beauty and brains.

The trend is fast catching up, Atleast here was a saying american women are givers, well, it never was in india, indian women will always be a "TAKER".

Folks,

Its greener always on the other side, who wants to get on with a single girl anyway, its global economy, global adventure, so get with the trend :)

cbgb, i must agree with your analogy between hot imported foreign women and the lamborghini. i have seen the drool factor in effect and it is certainly not to be under-estimated. the incessant stares from guys and the and the lectures from local women on how much better she could be doing are sure to send an exotic beauty's ego on a rampage.

also, i must mention something that i saw today. this guy that i met latin america imported a woman who already had a voracious appetite for junk food. however, while she was in her home country junk food was not widely available and it was quite expensive so she wasn't able to consume it in enough quantities to turn into a lactating sow. he was warned numerous times not to take this chick back to the u.s. since she was obviously very hungry for a taste of the american lifestyle. instead of taking heed he accused everyone of being jealous, he hung out in the shop where she worked to ward of any would be suitors. things finally came to a head one day when he almost traded blows with a customer. the american shop owner promptly fired the girl after that. imagine all of this over what was an average girl when compared to her much more beautiful peers. anyway, the dumb ass married her and brought her over. when i saw them i didn't recognize her at first because the poor fool's lamborghini has now turned into a ryder truck. i couldn't help smiling to myself and wondering if he still gets into fights over her.

long stroker, i think that you're headed in the right general direction. i haven't done any in depth analysis of global economic trends but i think that it is safe to say that the old model of finding an employer and committing yourself to 20 or 30 years of serfdom in return for a pension is well on the way out the door. employers can no longer be counted on to keep their part of the bargain. no one knows what the u.s. dollar will be worth in the future, therefore it would be prudent to have a means of generating income in the country where you establish your residence. serfdom in the u.s. should probably be no more than a means of amassing some capital to fund your relocation. if you have no obligations to remain in the u.s. then your youthful viagra-free years would definitely be better spent abroad indulging in beautiful women and seeking wealth.

I find that these days, there are few social incentives to stay in America, thats why I have not returned and have no plans to return in the future. American women are HORRIBLE. Some people might think that they are not so bad but when you get to meet some women outside of the USA, you will find textbook examples of femininity, class and elegance that still exist in the 21st century. The few high quality foreign women who make it to the shores of the US often get taken by superrich Alpha types, which means regular guys have no chance whatsoever of meeting their dream woman in the US. Combined with recent politics making travel difficult, like the fall of the US Dollar relative to other foreign currencies, is making travel very expensive. I remember my first trip to Eastern Europe, I was traveling around Germany, Hungary, Latvia, the Czech Republic, and Poland. I was absolutely stunned by the sheer number of beautiful, elegant, and friendly women that I ran into, when I went back to the States I couldn't help but notice how a lot of American women I found attractive suddenly seemed so plain to me.

Occasionally I run into some fuckwit lady that thinks because I'm American I will take her back to the USA to my penthouse home and where the streets are made of gold and everyone lives in mansion and drives some fancy car and thinks life there is a bundle of roses. There are some delusional retards like this that you will run into. Better to keep them where they are then to bring them back and see you in a different light.

hi all! i just got back from the philippines and i may need an entire day in confession for the things (and women) i've done.

to touch on a couple of recent posts, (and not criticizing anyone at all) i have quite a few american women friends, but there is no way in hell i'm gonna chance it by trying to start a relationship with one unless she makes the move first. i've had my heart ripped from my chest too many times (and watched it beating as it was ripped from my chest cavity) to be a fool again. i'll be friends with them and party with them, but as far as any romantic situations may go, i turn into a robot. hell, i still have american female friends from 15-25 years ago that i'm still close to. it may seem i love to bash american women for the sheer joy of it, but that's not true. i just still get angry (more at myself nowadays) for falling for the chicanery that american women will employ simply to boost their ego.

anyway, while in the philippines, i noticed thet stark difference between the american women i saw (homely and fat, not really obese, but fat) and the native women. in general, it was like watching utter rejects from american idol trying to fit in with professional beauties. i also noticed the typical monger; in his 40's extremely pale skin (not poking fun at my bretheren without color), sandals with socks (i swear i saw this!) and loud hawaiin shirts. hey, if that floats their boats, so be it, but what really made me sit up and take notice is that the chicks these guys were with seemed to be emotionless pros. for instance, i noticed one guy who had his hand in the small of a filipina's back and she seemed to try to be at least an inch ahead of that hand, as if it repulsed her. i felt sorry for the guy because he seemed (to me at least) to want some emotional attachment to her. that example was just one of several (and similar) that i observed. to the guy to said that (paraphrasing) 1st worlders are economic liberators that foreign women clamor for, you hit the nail on the head. i was never under the illusion that the relative "exotic factor" or economics doesn't play a part in nailing a foreign honey, but so what? if i can play on that advantage, so be it!

to loosely quote a recent post (sorry i can't find it, much less look for it again, 'cos i'm tired as hell right now and i wanna get some sleep) i need ta take a few pages outta clinton's book and be a silver tongued smoothie. yes, peeps, i'm admitting to the world my shortcomings and that i gotta get my act together a little more.

ciao, fellas!

Sinanju master, CBGB Connisur:

Agreed that american women are inmatch, But one thing I fail to get being in a third world country is, how the porn industry gets regular supply of teen and amatuer beauties.

It amazes me the kind of beauty they churn out and all gets fuc**d right in front of the camera, the kind of women I dream about whole day and night.

It hardly seem unlikely the other way as is mentioned in this forum going by the attitude of the porn cuties, the american women seem to be true "GIVER's ".

Whts wroung, Am I missing something. Please Help! I'm really confused in this one!

[quote]But one thing I fail to get being in a third world country is, how the porn industry gets regular supply of teen and amatuer beauties.[/quote]This one, even I can answer.

[b]MONEY[/b]

For $2500, for a couple of hours work, you too can have any "dream" woman you want.

I am not trying to be flip about this. These porn actress "dream girls" are very well compensated for their time. It is just that simple.

Very top-drawer call girls also get such rates (not from me!) but they provide an important commodity... discretion.

Cheers,

Sporadic

BL5, Sporadic cut right to the chase and laid out the answer for you; MONEY.

I had three teenage Philippine honeys that would turn the head of ANY guy whose dick gets hard. I can say with confidence that two of them could be in front of a porn king's camera on their way to amateur stardom.

When I go to Hell, Satan is gonna say: "Whooooooooooooa! Welcome, Sinanju Master, you're a minor celebrity down here! You can go STRAIGHT to the FRONT OF THE LINE! Your suite is in between Bill Clinton's and Tommy Lee's!"

Born Loser,

I was going to answer your post, but Sporadic and Sinanju took the very words from my mouth. There is no level of depravity too low for a woman when the money's right.

If this were not the truth then half the prostitutes in the world wouldn't even be prostitutes to begin with.

I think pornography is a tool of psychological warfare against men in America, other than topless bars its the only legal sexual outlet for men in America. Most pornography is use to tease the fewer into seeing what he will never experience in real life. In countries that have legal prostitution, just about every country in Europe, Canada, and Australia, has legal outlets to visit prostitutes, however pornography is not as prevalent as it is in the USA. Why spend money on crappy porno movies when you can have the real experience with a real woman? Pornography has no use to me whatsover, when I get real sex with real women, porno movies and magazines have no use to me whatsoever.

CBGB, I don't know if pornography has NO USE WHATSOEVER. Were it not for pornography (or conversations with my friends when I was growing up) I probably would have believed that sex is some (literally) magical event that happens when your eyes are closed while partially or fully clothed. I wouldn't have developed my taste (and appreciation) for certain types of women's bodies. I wouldn't have discovered the fact that women's bodies are a minefield of erogenous zones and so on. Pornography has its uses, but it goes only so far. It will NEVER replace the experience of running your lips over a woman's warm soft flesh while her breathing becomes shallower, or experiencing the moment of being inside her. It has its uses but makes for a poor substitute for the real thing.

Pornography is nothing more than a psychological weapon, in a society like the US where sexual images are present all over the media but prostitution and other sexual outlets are illegal, this is the most obvious proof. I have visited other countries where sexual services for fees are legal and the level of pornographic content in the media is considerably lower. In countries like England and Germany, you can walk into a local brothel, screw a gorgeous woman for a small sum of money, and be on your way. Yet in the US, this is not okay, but its okay to tease men with sexual images on TV and printed media, its completely contradictory.

Born Loser 5,

Definately money is a primary motivator for girls to get into the porn biz like other posters have mentioned, but there are other factors. Many women in adult entertainment were molested as children. Daddy diddled with their doodle when they were young and now they want the world to see how fucked up they are. Engaging in the sexual act (mirroring the episodes of child abuse) over and over on film becomes a kind of coping mechanism for the victim, a cathartic release and the only way to make sense of the circumstances they find themselves in.

It's kind of funny. I to some degree lost my taste for porn after a trip to Prague. It's like "I don't need to watch this crap, as the memories bouncing around my head are far superior to most of what I am seeing".

"Bart"

IMHO you are painting with pretty broad strokes there LS.

I have no doubt that there are victims of child abuse in the porn/stripper industry, but I would suggest there are also victims in every other profession or trade as well.

I would look for a new textbook.

Cheers,

Sporadic

I was thinking about it and I've never once looked at porn in BsAs, there is simply no need. I do see a fair amount of porn in the sex shops but I've never seen anybody looking at it or bying it. I'm sure that some people there make use of it but I don't think many.

Why watch when you can be involved, unless it's watching two chicas lick each others pussy's before you fuck them. Or watch the one your fucking lick her amiga's. Live porn, now that's something I can get behind.

Oh yes before I forget. In keeping with this boards subject, American women suck.

If you have ample access to the real thing, then yes, porn has no use. My recent vacation in the Philippines emphasized that BIG TIME. The only place I really saw any porn whatsoever was on the streets being sold by flea market vendors in the form of DVD's.

Perhaps my generalization was a bit too sweeping - certainly not all women who are in the adult entertainment industry were victims of child abuse. But I would suggest that the percentage working in porn is higher than any other profession one could name.

By the way, calling me Broad Stroker, that was pretty clever. You had me chuckling over my afternoon tea today!

What a pile of horseshit in that last post. "Severely Sexually Abused" = some guy put his hand on my ass. "Multiple Personality Disorder" = confused about what I want to be if I ever grow up. "Major Depressive Episode" = waah waah waah snivel I didn't get what I wanted.

One the other hand there are men who do sick things to young girls and the solution to this is castration, as the disorder cannot be effectively treated. However, the bleeding heart pussified limp dick whining pseudo-liberal jack offs compiling the statistics will always grossly overstate the prevalence to justify their own pathetic existences.

Long stroker,

The "study" you site sounds just a little sensational to me. It could very well be, I do not know, but I detect a bit of over-enthusiastic psycho-babble, as is typical in most advocacy groups. No harm in it I suppose.

Depending on who writes the questions you could probably say 90% of the world population suffers from "Major Depressive Episodes."

Please do not misunderstand, I am NOT defending child abuse (or any type of abuse for that matter.)

As to the matter of porn: Gentlemen, two things have revolutionised this industrty, the Internet and Viagra.

People no longer have to skulk around shady shops to get a thrill, they can just do a google image search in the privacy (har!) of their own home.

I do agree with your premise that when plenty of the real thing is on offer, photos and videos are pretty pale.

Taking my cue from Daddy Rulz, American women suck (or not very well!)
There. On topic.

Cheers,

Sporadic

let me just make a few points.

First, I'm not trying to be the morality police here. I like my porn and my ho's just as much as the next guy.

Second, and this is just speculation, but I think this problem is in some ways uniquely American, rooted in the Puritanical repression of our history. This ties in with what some of you guys were saying about the prevalence of porn overseas. It exists, but it isn't nearly as necessary. Sex is much more readily available over there.

I've been with plenty of prostitutes in Central and South America, and I didn't get the same victim vibe off them as I do with North American prostitutes. Latin American females generally have a much healthier view of sex, and most often engage in prostitution out of economic neccesity, not as an acting out from abuse.

Lastly, the only reason I posted all of this was in respone to Born Loser's question. I hope you're reading this, dude!

I was reading some more of that website, and it did begin to seem to me a bit like some "over-enthusiastic psycho-babble" as you said, so I removed the post due to lack of credibile sources. I'm not trying to start a war here, just trying to help Born Loser see a side of the issue he might not be aware of all the way over there in India.

BTW, this topic is apparently some real third-rail shit here so, as of right now, I am done discussing it.

Long Stroker,

It would appear that I am sending the wrong vibes here. I was not trashing what you posted, just trying to discuss it!

Indeed you make an important point[quote]but I think this problem is in some ways uniquely American, rooted in the Puritanical repression of our history.[/quote] I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I have been living the expat life so long that I am seriously out of touch with the good old USA, but thinking back (way back!) to providers in the US, yes, I think you are correct.

The "repressed" attitude in the US certainly must play a part. I remember what an eye-opening experience my first overseas jaunt was during college days. The shock of understanding that there were alternative ways of looking at sexuality (and life) was a shock to a serious WASP.

Seriously, I was not trying to bully you. If I gave you that impression, please accept my apologies.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Dickhead:[quote] However, the bleeding heart pussified limp dick whining pseudo-liberal jack offs compiling the statistics will always grossly overstate the prevalence to justify their own pathetic existences.[/quote]
Mr. Dickhead Sir, I tip my hat in your general direction :)

I get seriously worked up when well meaning but uninformed (or over educated) jag-offs mislead the "public" with distorted or fabricated "results" designed to justify a victimised position.

[b]If I have to say this, this comment is not directed at the messenger... Long Stroker was only reporting info he found to support a position.[/b]

At all events, your description Mr. Dickhead is erudite, concise and IMHO correct.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Like a popular soft drink "Can't beat the real thing." Porn can't substitute for the real experience. When you go to a country where the real service is available, why bother with crappy porno movies and magazines? They become useless after that point.

I don't know what type of people end up in the porn business but some of them actually come from very "normal" backgrounds. I believe one of the biggest porn stars was once a special education teacher.

As far as the theme of this discussion topic: "AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK!!!". If you get disrespected by an American women don't take it personally and remember the motto, American women suck.

AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK
(not very well though)

Or maybe

AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK
(not very well though)
((except the fat ones))

Thanks sporadic

Only a few regions of the US truly have desirable and approachable women. Frankly I thought South Florida was pretty good but then again that region has a large Hispanic population, and Hispanic women are well known for both their beauty and approachability. Then again not everyone can have the opportunity to live in South Florida

Regions like the West Coast and Northeast are probably the worst and have the most stuck up women on the planet.

Still the best way to go is international, South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia are worlds above the USA. Western Europe is actually okay because its easy to find women from the former Eastern bloc in those parts.

Speaking of pornography, the general US media, has a major role in contributing to American society's idea of what is beautiful and who can be beautiful. Typically the mass media in the US sees mostly white American women as the most desirable in the world. When I first traveled abroad and saw the stunning array of beautiful women of many nationalities, races, and ethnic origins, I came back to realize that the US media is full of shit. Hollywood and the TV executives only show what they believe is beautiful, they also act as a propaganda machine to a degree, that's why certain nationalities of beautiful women are never represented in the US media because a beautiful woman of a certain nationality or ethnic origin can send an indirect political message. So Hollywood will portray certain ethnicities of women as being ugly. Note the Bennigans' commercial with Russian women being portrayed as fat and ugly in the 1980's, I have been to Moscow and during the summer months you will get a neck ache from turning your head every other second to look at the beautiful cyrillic babes. Few ethnic women are ever portrayed as an ideal woman. I have met real women in many countries around the world who can put the best looking American actresses to shame. When you look at the image of a hollywood celebrity you are looking at the image of what some stuffy exec thinks is beautiful.

We were discussing pornography. I have a "little friend" in the Czech Republic that I regularly amuse with stories of how stupid, obnoxious and annoying American girls are. Currently, as a further example of said annoying behavior, I am considering sending her some samples of the "Girls Gone Wild" videos. Amid bouncing titties, and borderline lesbianism (generally good things), there are some simply wonderful examples of Paris Hilton level obnoxious bi--ch behavior-which we of course excuse when the tits start seeing sunshine.

Just to make it short, American women are getting fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter!. I was at a bus stop in my hometown and I saw this woman sitting at a bus stop eating a $2.00 bag of onion rings munching away as if there wasn't a worry in the world.

Looking at her, I can see she was attractive at one time...but not anymore! She had rolls on top of rolls. The kicker was she saw me looking at her and gave me a ugly scowl as if she were saying: "What the fuck are you looking at?" or " Your not getting any!!"

If they keep this up, American women are doomed!! DOOMED I TELL YOU!

*Shakes Head*

Yanno, before I went on my trip to the Philippines, two of my female coworkers asked me if I was gonna bring back a Filipina (or at least hook up with one when I was there) to the US. They then made it a point to compare them to US females (being more "man-friendly" to put it in a nutshell). I joked around with them, but I could sense their barely-contained hostility at the thought of me forsaking an American woman for the comfort and pleasure of a Filipina. Take note of the fact that I did not even ONCE recite to them an item-by-item comparison between the two. If I DID, they would certainly have ganged up on me and slung unsupported accusations my way. This is how they (American Women) act when they perceive that their grip on power is slipping...

I met a Czech girl in Germany who was as hot as Paris Hilton but didn't have the Paris Hilton ego, her personality was a big difference compared to attractive blondes in North America.

Yea buddy I hear you. The vibe that I got off of the girls I met in Prague was like "I am just girl, nothing special". Infinitely preferable to the "Why Becky, didn't you know that the world revolves around my pussy?" of our lovely domestic models.

European women behave differently probably due to cultural reasons, disrespect and irreverance is largely seen as a negative in Europe, whereas in America its 'cool' to be a rebel. American women act the way they do as a way of rebeling against men. The major players and figures in the women's liberation movement are mostly American women.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]European women behave differently probably due to cultural reasons, disrespect and irreverance is largely seen as a negative in Europe, whereas in America its 'cool' to be a rebel. American women act the way they do as a way of rebeling against men. The major players and figures in the women's liberation movement are mostly American women.[/QUOTE]I live in Hong Kong spent some time in the US and mostly found the women there incorrigable and irritating! How can they be so successful in making the life of men so miserable! The truth is guys do need their egos flattered with a range of subtle behavioural traits by women and it makes life so much more pleasant! I see no evidence of American women being happier for their rebelliousness!

My query is who is to blame! I understand the US is a transient population but how come every corner of the continent seems to have this feature in women! Having lived in Asia I find the answer is not equality in the workplace etc , but quite simply in the hands of the media! In Asia women are not constantly fed BS on TV/magazines showing women stropping out and being bitches in public! Asian women wouldnt know how to behave in this way!

I caught a glimpse of a program called the gastineau twins/sisters on E channel yesterday! OH MY GOD! Who would want to spend a second in the company of that pair! Truely, hell on earth and i pity any guy that gets stuck with them........im sure i will get no rebuttle on that point!

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]When you look at the image of a hollywood celebrity you are looking at the image of what some stuffy exec thinks is beautiful.[/QUOTE]In addition, those same so-called beautiful actresses are not that great looking if you take away the makeup. I have ordinary women, without acting contracts who are far prettier. Not be gay bashing, however, how much of that image is fostered by those gay/bi/downlow execs in particular?

[QUOTE=Jaswells]I live in Hong Kong spent some time in the US and mostly found the women there incorrigable and irritating! How can they be so successful in making the life of men so miserable! The truth is guys do need their egos flattered with a range of subtle behavioural traits by women and it makes life so much more pleasant! I see no evidence of American women being happier for their rebelliousness!

My query is who is to blame! I understand the US is a transient population but how come every corner of the continent seems to have this feature in women! Having lived in Asia I find the answer is not equality in the workplace etc , but quite simply in the hands of the media! In Asia women are not constantly fed BS on TV/magazines showing women stropping out and being bitches in public! Asian women wouldnt know how to behave in this way!

I caught a glimpse of a program called the gastineau twins/sisters on E channel yesterday! OH MY GOD! Who would want to spend a second in the company of that pair! Truely, hell on earth and i pity any guy that gets stuck with them........im sure i will get no rebuttle on that point![/QUOTE]

That show was about Mark Gastineau's wife and daughter. Well American women are spoiled rotten, they are accustomed to getting whatever the hell they want, especially the rich ones. Then again, America's got one really important thing that isn't as present in other countries, Money!!! I have traveled to other countries and figured this out quickly, women elsewhere like money, but American women bring to a whole new level.

As far as comparing American women to foreign women, I think the reasons for the former's bitchiness is due to culture and society. Some of the most arrogant American women that I have seen have came from abroad, particularly Eastern Europeans, Middle Easterners, and South Americans, they integrate into American society quite well due to America's habit of absorbing and 'liberating' women who come from societies where they were human door mats. I actually met a woman who was an American citizen but was raised in Europe and noticed how different she was from her counterparts that lived in the US. The lesson is that if you bring that nice foreign woman back home, chances are that she will change, and it will mostly be the fault of society.

It's easy to meet women in other countries, I have met some perfect examples of beauty and class over the years, some real gems. However it seems the best way to keep a good relationship with them is to live with them in their society. This is so for a number of reasons:1) Long distance relationships are stressful especially in this day and age when anything can up between the two of you while you are seperated. ( A beautiful woman I met in Europe who I knew was the one for me was killed in a car crash. ) 2) Cultural, she might change if you bring her back. 3) The first reason, it will be expensive as hell to travel back and forth and with the vacation time that most Americans get travel will be difficult if not impossible.

Back on the subject of woman and food. This chick that sits next to me in class pull out a pack of pop tarts, laffy taffys, 20 oz bottle of coke, and buttered bagel and eats it all at 9 in the morning. At 10:30, 20 oz bottle of Pepsi, cheese doodles, and candy bar. She has a pretty face but is on the way to being chubby. I just watched this and couldn't wait till the next week to see what was for breakfast which turned out to be more of the same.

An Filipino-Chinese friend of mine is engaged to an American girl of Irish-German Descent.But She was born in the Philippines,Went to school until College in the Philippines and only goes back to visit family in the States.She is very sweet,giving,considerate and really knows to treat her man well.Actually she is a good friend of mine also.She is about 80% filipinized with her indupendent spirit and self reliance the only things American about her.I thought of her,when you guys were talking about bringing a foriegn girl to the states and how they develop bad attitudes.Apparently raise an American girl outside the US,and you get the opposite American girls with better attitudes.An american babe that takes better care of herself and with a more Filipina attitude towards men.A French friend of mine in Malaysia is married to American girl who grew up in thailand.Same thing,She had adopted many Thai attitudes towards Men.She speaks thai,Cooks Thai Food and does regular foot massages and back massages for my friend.Yes there are still diamonds out there in the sea of mediocore American women

An American woman who is raised in another country usually contrasts in comparison to an American woman who was raised in the states, unfortunately such an American woman is hard to find. The definition of an American woman is rather loose since the USA is an immigration country and people of virtually every country live there. Any foreign women can become legally "American" after residing in the States for five years with their husband. Many foreign women not only become legally American but culturally American, and that is the problem with most local American, women their culture and behavior is what drives a lot of us to go abroad in search of women. For this reason, I sincerely believe that if you bring a foreign woman back to the US and in the likely case that she integrates into American society well, she will be as bad if not worse than most local American women. I think only East Asian women are the exception as many seem to retain their ways for a number of reasons, they are discriminated against more compared to South American and Eastern European women, so they feel a bit alienated and become more dependent on their boyfriend or husband.

Additional update
Told her about this post and she wanted me to add that It is also a matter of common sense,If she has a bitchy typical American attitude,how would she find anybody decent competing with plenty of sexy sweet filipinas.But one she will never be is totally helpless like many Asian women.She has a career and is indupendent,But She knows her man and family to be is first.It is a pity there are not more of American women like her

Here's an interesting article that is in line with what we often discuss in this forum:

[url]http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/142_dating_advice.html[/url]

On a Saturday evening in July 1995, a man named Rich Zubaty (author of Surviving the Feminization of America and founder of MENTOR, an organization advocating healthy masculinity) staged an impromptu rally in Harvard Square to protest the swelling tide of anti-male propaganda and the shaming of men in the media. Calling it "Take Back the Penis," Zubaty thought the rally would register only a minor blip on the sociological radar screen. But amid strident female shouts of "Lorena Bobbitt for Surgeon General," scores of frustrated men began to flock to his banner, all intent on demonstrating their intrinsic belief that "It's O.K. to be a man."
That was almost 10 years ago. Have guys like Zubaty ushered in a decade of change? Not really. The average guy is still P-whipped by our culture, emasculated by the media, forced to cater to women, and pressured to act in a "politically correct" manner. TV, movies and advertisements increasingly portray men as simple-minded buffoons and as pawns to female "strength" and "competence."

what women want



At least books other than Zubaty's have appeared in the meantime -- The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Summers, No More Mr. Nice Guy! by psychologist Dr. Robert Glover and Being a Man in a Woman's World by Dennis Neder -- all arguing that contemporary men are being robbed of their essential masculinity. But unfortunately, far more influential are movies like Mel Gibson's cotton candy pander-fest What Women Want, in which macho ad exec Nick Marshall (Gibson) loses a promotion to a female coworker because he doesn't understand that "It's a woman's world out there," and he only can redeem himself by learning to think like a female.

So the problem remains. As women continue to usurp positions of power and influence, as our culture exponentially coddles and panders to the female gender, as "equal rights" come to mean a kick in the balls, our society has learned to deify women and demonize men. The message is clear: women are good, men are bad. And what men need, the females trumpet, is to be more like women -- to be thoroughly feminized. This is especially true in the dating/mating arena.

the sad sitcom story



Any typical television sitcom tells the sad story. On Everybody Loves Raymond, the perpetually henpecked Ray Barone is expected to endure his wife Debra's bitchiness, lack of sexual desire and anti-male barbs as she castigates every aspect of his behavior. When he wants to take off for a couple of hours to play golf, he's "not taking care of his family" (the symbolism of her denying him golf -- his putter and balls -- should be obvious); when he wants to relax in front of the TV after a hard day on the job, he "never talks to her or shares his feelings;" and when he wants sex, he's "constantly mauling her."

Poor Ray is not alone...

As every aspect of Ray's masculine nature is demeaned and belittled, he is portrayed as inferior to Debra, while she is lionized as a superior human being. If he does try to stand up for his male rights, she berates him mercilessly, usually threatening to withhold sex until he backs down and rolls over. No mention is ever made that he works all day to pay for her mortgage, car, clothing, food, insurance, and entertainment, while she spends her afternoons at home trying to learn how to cook meatballs, the most important ingredient of which, according to her mother-in-law Marie, is "love." Notice that no one points out that someone has to sweat and toil to pay for this "love."

In essence, Ray is humiliated and punished because he acts like a man and not like the "perfect" Debra, a woman. His response? He apologizes -- Debra's right, he's wrong. He should be more sensitive, romantic and sharing of his feelings. He might just as well cut off his testicles and hand them over to her on a plate.

men who act like women



The problem is that we are turning into a nation of Rays. The standard held up to us is entirely female. This can be easily witnessed in the rise of the "metrosexual," the straight man so feminized that, like a woman, he is obsessed with his appearance, daubs on makeup and opts for cosmetic surgery. Today, men are supposed to have "relationship skills," and they are expected to be capable of achieving "greater intimacy" and to openly express their emotions. They are supposed to be "soul mates" and to "communicate" like girlfriends, not act like testosterone-charged lovers. But at the same time, today's woman has still not shed her typical female hypocrisy; as usual, she still wants it both ways. When there's hard work to be done or bills to be paid, that's when she wants us to act like "real men."

The result? A generation of guys totally bewildered, confused and disoriented. Let's face it: A man's needs are pretty minimal. All he really asks for is regular sex and a cold one. But instead, what he gets are allegations that he's "too aggressive" and trumped-up charges of "sexual harassment" for what is simply a natural appreciation of the opposite sex. If he wants to keep his job or go on a date, he's forced to endure a gut load of female bullying.

the role of feminism



It's tempting to blame the whole mess on the so-called "feminism" that has cut the heart out of Western culture. But mainstream "feminism" is a self-serving movement that grants societal license to female greed. The real culprit here is sex. As always, women -- shrewd and manipulating as they are -- know full well that most guys will do just about anything to get laid. So, as females feel their oats with their newfound power, they do what comes naturally to them: They use it for sexual blackmail. If guys want access to our bodies, they say, they're going to have to dance to our feminizing tunes.

It's completely lost on today's woman that females are too emotionally immature, greedy and self-indulgent to do anything but abuse and misuse this power, and they can't see that their short-term selfish thinking really equates to shooting themselves in the foot. The truth is, men are supposed to be men and women are supposed to be women. Mother Nature has made us this way through five million years of evolution. And it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

time to take it back



So what can we do about it?

It's time to take our territory back. Take back the penis. This is why Rich Zubaty's rally touched such a raw nerve. Men certainly didn't ask to have their territory redefined. But redefined it has been, right under our noses. Now it's time -- before it's really too late -- to stand up to women, to let them know that we're not going to take it anymore.

As Zubaty writes: "Our job is not to get along with the Goddess. Our job is to f**k the Goddess."

Amen.


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Hmm... I bet that article first appeared on two stone tablets carved from Mount Sinai! lol

I've done a good amount of traveling in the US, and it is important to note that women are more friendly and flirtatious in different parts of the USA-- and thus more fun to be around. Of course as a whole the US is a terrible place for casual non pro sex when compared with international destinations. I'm only talking about the USA here. I thought I'd give my opinion on the 10 best and worst USA cities to be an American male looking for a little nookie when you don't have much money. Of course if your Bill Gates you could have fun in Topeka, Kansas with 50 models no problem-- but how many of us have 45 billion to blow on babes?

Ok, here is my 10 best and worst city USA city list:

10 worst US cities -- with the most stuck up, full of attitude, women--

1. Very worst -- Seattle, WA-- in the entire world.
2. Portland, OR
3. Boston, MA
4. New York, NY
5. Anchorage, AK
6. Chicago, IL
7. Dallas, TX
8. Kansas City, MO
9. Norfolk, VA
10. Phoenix, AZ
11. L.A., CA

10 cities where USA women have less attitude, are more fun, and dating is much more enjoyable:

1. Miami, FL -- best city in the USA in my opinion. Many stuck up American women, but also a lot of women who are pretty sexy, and don't have so much attitude. With a little time you can find a gem.
2. New Orleans, LA
3. Tampa, FL
4. Orlando, FL
5. Memphis, TN
6. Nashville, TN
7. Washington, D.C.
8. Louisville, KY
9. San Francisco, CA
10. San Diego, CA
11. Atlanta, GA
12. Philadelphia, PA, (the women are friendly, but very fat. Possibly the most fat in the country in my opinion.)

Also, of interest. The US Mexican border town women, El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, etc, all have less attitude as well compared with the average American women.

Just my opinion. Of course nothing in the USA comes even close to Brazil, Thailand, or other international destinations.

Good luck with your adventures,

NB

[quote=New Bound] The US Mexican border town women, El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, etc, all have less attitude as well compared with the average American women.[/quote]

Having spent time in half these towns, as well as San Diego and Norfolk, I can say from experience that you are quite right. When a town is located close to the border, the men realize that their American female counterparts aren't the only game in town. The female realize this, too, so the attitude factor goes down considerably. Good post!

[QUOTE=Smut Villain]Having spent time in half these towns, as well as San Diego and Norfolk, I can say from experience that you are quite right. When a town is located close to the border, the men realize that their American female counterparts aren't the only game in town. The female realize this, too, so the attitude factor goes down considerably. Good post![/QUOTE]
The same goes for American Women living overseas in Asia and Europe.With competition from the local Asian and European women,they have to adopt new attitudes and learn new skills or end up with lonely nights

I know of course that some of you gentlemen are fathers, but I have to say that I am generally not too fond of children here in the US (at least after they start to talk, they are kind of cute before that). I find that they are in most cases, spoiled, over-indulged, obnoxious, loud, etc...(disclaimer of hypocracy-I'm sure I was like this too as a child). However, I saw just the greatest thing the other day.

I'm currently paying the bills working as a waiter in a restaurant. One of my customers was a heavily accented (recent imigrant, or visitor) 40ish Polish mother, her 12-13 year old daughterh

I know of course that some of you gentlemen are fathers, but I have to say that I am generally not too fond of children here in the US (at least after they start to talk, they are kind of cute before that). I find that they are in most cases, spoiled, over-indulged, obnoxious, loud, etc...(disclaimer of hypocracy-I'm sure I was like this too as a child). However, I saw just the greatest thing the other day.

I'm currently paying the bills working as a waiter in a restaurant. One of my customers was a heavily accented (recent imigrant, or visitor) 40ish Polish mother, her 12-13 year old daughter, and a maybe 7-8 year old son. As I was taking the order of the Mother and daughter, the boy very politely RAISED HIS HAND and waited patiently for me to acknowledge him. When I noticed this, I did acknowledge him, and he asked (in accented English of course) "Please may I use the restroom?". I of course sent him on his way astounded at the courtesy and politeness (more typical American behavior would be brashly interrupting his Mother or Sister, or running off on his own)

If (most) American children acted like this, I would be much less prone to refer to them as "womb sh*t".

It doesn't matter what part of the world you are talking about. The higher the supply of guys with jobs/money, the higher the women will value their vagina.

Make the situation a bit more competitive, ie: less guys with money, or more women competing for the available supply of good men .... and all of a sudden attitudes dissappear and p*ssy becomes plentiful. It seems like mogic, but it's just the power of supply and demand.

I would imagine that the typical american chick overseas would be at a terrible disadvantage to the local girls. In my own travels overseas, I've noticed that other western guys often go a little bit nuts when they arrive. It's kind of like getting out of jail or something. First, you can't get over how great these other women are. Then you realize that these women are just being the way women are supposed to be, and that it's the women back home who are all fucked up.

Rock

The media story about the so-called Runway Bride solidified my negative feelings towards American women. Jennifer Willbanks ran away on a bus and told authorities that she was kidnapped. Her boyfriend is absolutely and completely in need of visiting the doctor to get some testosterone injections so he could be a man and not put up with absolutely psychotic and twisted behavior like this.

CBCG: Can't agree dude. When I lived in Latin America, there was a certain family of females who all had lovely jugs. Everybody had fucked them; I am sure their own parents even fucked them as that is the way they were. A friend of mine, an innocent redneck straight out of central casting, fell for one of them. He was in love. But she wanted dick and plenty of it. So she let him high and dry with his dick in his hand and fucked off to France with some French loser (loser as he got stuck with that witch from hell). That run away bride is obviously a problem case (why the big dumb and expensive wedding anyway). But there are lots of good apple pie eating American women out there who just want to meet a nice innocent boy like

John T Domino

and they will (as long as they stay off the apple pie:))

Here's my take on the so-called "runaway bride".

She is a typical, modern, western female. She's been raised to believe that she can have whatever she wants. Whatever, whenever and however much it may be, she can have it because she is the keeper of that most valued resource.... the vagina.

Now comes the wedding. Uh-Oh! Getting the guy means giving up on some of her other options. Remeber this type of woman likes to have her cake and eat it too. What happens? A typical approach/avoidance conflict. Her solution? Run away, thereby putting of the wedding and still (hopefully) keeping all her options open. Lot's of guys get the same feelings right before they get married so no big deal if it happens to a woman.

What really dissappoints me is that this pathetic dork would actually still be interested enough to take her back.

IMHO, the groom's friends should send him on a short trip to Brazil or Argentina where he can see what a quality woman REALLY is.

Rock

Great fuckin' post, man. Excellent information. Thanks for sharing.

Anybody here watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? He recently had on as a guest Christina Hoff Sommers. She was promoting some new book of hers, but I was reminded of a work she put out some years back called "The War Against Boys." Great reading, very informative stuff. The feminazis unleashed a firestorm on her at the time, calling her research methods flawed and so forth. The intensity of the criticism she received leads one to believe that she was probably very close to the truth.

New Bound - thanks for your top ten (and bottom ten) list. I am going to be relocating in about 20 months and a top consideration, aside from salary of course, is availability of friendly females. Oh yeah, and let's not forget the proximity of the closest international airport! Boo-yah!

Any other sugesstions for top US pussy cities? I have seen posted on WSG to stay away from the Bible belt (in general, exceptions exist of course.)

In my experience, in the US, most of the sunbelt states are good. South Florida is my favorite, although there are a lot of snooty women, that area has a large hispanic immigrant population, so its easy to find someone desirable. I saw a similar trend in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, and California. Up North, I thought French Canadian women were very attractive and also quite approachable.

more women are deciding that marriage is not inevitable, that they can lead a fulfilling life as a single. it's an empowering choice, but for many not an easy one

by tamala m. edwards, time magazine

jodie hannaman grew up in houston, a city as fond of formal weddings as of barbecues and rodeos. so it was saying something at duschene academy, her roman catholic girls' school, that hannaman was chosen as most likely to be married first. but her teenage fantasies of buttercream frosting and silky bridesmaids dresses first began to crack with her high school sweetheart. he dated her for more than a decade before she finally got tired of waiting for a marriage proposal that was never going to come. there were other men after that, but it was hannaman who repeatedly decided against a life built for two. marriage, it began to dawn on her, wasn't an end in itself but rather something she wanted only if she found the right guy.

now hannaman, 32, spends 60 hours a week in her job as project manager for chase bank of texas in houston, in an office decorated with art-museum magnets and cathy cartoons. she extends her business trips into the weekends for solo mini-vacations, enjoys the social whirl of the junior league volunteer circuit, and has started looking for a house. while she would love a great romance that would lead to marriage, she no longer feels she has to apologize fr being single. "i've finally matured enough to acknowledge that there's more to life than being married," she says. "i'd like to get married and have kids, but something in the past few years has changed. i'm happier being single."

hannaman might seem to have little in common with the four lead characters on tv's sex and the city, single women who live the supafly life and discard men quicker than last season's bag and shoes--and look damn good doing it. her sex life isn't nearly as colorful, for one thing. all of them, nevertheless, are part of a major societal shift: single women, once treated as virtual outcasts, have moved to the center of our social and cultural life. unattached females--wisecracking, gutsy gals, not pathetic saps--are the heroines du jour in fiction, from melissa bank's collection of stories, the girls' guide to hunting and fishing, to helen fielding's bridget jones's diary, the publishing juggernaut that has spawned one sequel and will soon be a movie. the single woman is tv's it girl as well, not just on sex and the city, the smash hbo series in the midst of its third buzz-producing season in the u.s., but also on a growing number of american network shows focused on strong, career-minded single women.

the single woman has come into her own. not too long ago, she would live a temporary existence: a rented apartment shared with a girlfriend or two and a job she could easily ditch. adult life--a house, a car, travel, children--only came with a husband. well, gone are the days. forty-three million american women are currently single--more than 40% of all adult females, up from about 30% in 1960. (the ranks of single men have grown at roughly the same rate.) if you look at women of the most marriageable age, the numbers are even more dramatic: in 1963, 83% of women 25 to 55 were married; by 1997 that figure had dropped to 65%. "are you kidding? an 18% to 20% change? "this is huge," says linda waite, a sociologist at the university of chicago.

to be sure, the rise in single women encompasses some other important trends. an estimated 4 million of these unmarried women are cohabiting with their lovers, and a growing number are being more open about gay relationships. nevertheless, single women as a group are wielding more and more clout. a young and rubicam study released earlier this year labeled single women the yuppies of this decade, the blockbuster consumer group whose tastes will matter most to retailers and dictate our trends. the report found that nearly 60% of single women own their own home, buying them faster than single men; that single women fuel the home-renovation market; and that unmarried women are giving a big boost to the travel industry, making up half the adventure travelers and 2 out of 5 business travelers.

equally important is the attitudinal change. the dictionary once defined a spinster as an unmarried woman above a certain age: 30. if you passed that milestone without a partner, your best hope was to be seen as an eccentric auntie mame; your worst fear was to grow old like miss havisham, locked in her cavernous mansion, bitter after being ditched at the altar. not any more. "we've ended the spinster era," says philadelphia psychotherapist diana adile kirschner, who has made single women a focus of her practice. "women used to tell me about isolation, living alone, low level of activity, feeling different. now there's family, lots of friends, they're less isolated and more integrated into social lives."

more confident, more self-sufficient, and more choosy than ever, women no longer see marriage as a matter of survival and acceptance. they feel free to start and end relationships at will--more like, say, men. in a yankelovich poll for time and cnn, nearly 80% of men and women said they thought they would eventually find the perfect mate. but when asked whether, if they didn't find mr. perfect, they would marry someone else, only 34% of women said yes, in contrast to 41% of men. "let's face it. you don't just want a man in your life," says author bank, 39. "you only want a great man in your life."

single by choice--it's an empowering statement for many women. yet it's not a choice that all women arrive at easily or without some angst, and it raises a multitude of questions. are women too unrealistic about marriage--so picky about men that they're denying themselves and society the benefits of marriage while they pursue an impossible ideal? does the rejection of marriage by more women reflect a widening gender gap--as daughters of the women's movement discover that men, all too often, have a far less liberated view of the wife's role in marriage? do the burgeoning ranks of single women mean an outbreak of sex and the city promiscuity? and what about children? when a woman makes the empowering decision to rear a child on her own, what are the consequences, for mother and child?

society, to be sure, is far more accepting of single women than it was even a few years ago. when barbara baldwin, the director of planned parenthood in tennessee, divorced her husband in 1981, she needed her father's help before anyone would give the then 29-year-old single mother a car loan and a credit card. beverley dejulio, a divorced chicago mother who hosts handy ma'am, a weekly home-improvement show on pbs, says she dreaded the hardware store for years, because salespeople kept asking, "where's your husband?" and the stone age year when anne elizabeth, a chicago artist, then 35, had to fight to not be listed as spinster on the mortgage application for her lakeside home? it was 1984.

in many cases, women who choose the single life have looked at those around them and vowed not to make their mistakes. "my mother married her first boyfriend. all my relatives stayed in marriages that are really tough," says pam henneberry, 31, an accountant who lives in manhattan. "when i looked at the unhappiness that was in my parents' marriage, i said, i can't do that.'" if cynthia rowe, 43, a los angeles* area store manager and divorcé, gets depressed, she thinks of her five closest girlfriends. "they are all just existing in their marriages," she says. "two of them got married when they were young. twenty years later, they had outgrown each other. one has not got over her husband's affair. two friends aren't even sleeping in the same bedroom with their husband anymore. their personal happiness is placed last, and their kids know they are miserable."

some women, of course, have learned from their own life. "at 28, i was terrified of the world," says mary lou parsons, a raleigh, n.c., professional fund raiser, recalling her 1980 divorce. "i'd been raised a southern woman, sheltered and protected by my family, then by my husband." in the ensuing 20 years she learned to raise her kids on her own--and how to start her own business, buy a town house, move to alaska and back and, most of all, relish life on her own. "i had to get beyond that thinking in a lot of women's minds that aloneness is not o.k. but now i find solitude exhilarating." marcelle clements, author of the improvised woman: single women reinventing the single life, notes that there are many women, like parsons, who were "taken by surprise. they were in relationships that broke up, hit what they thought was catastrophe, only to find that they were o.k., and [they] adopt an attitude that said, i'm fine, i don't need to be with anyone else."

not surprisingly, many conservatives are disturbed at this growing acceptance of singlehood and its implied rejection of marriage. danielle crittenden, author of what our mothers didn't tell us, argues that women have set themselves up for disappointment, putting off marriage until their 30s only to find themselves unskilled in the art of compatibility and surrounded by male peers looking over their chardonnays at women in their 20s. "modern people approach marriage like it's a bosnia-serbia negotiation. marriage is no longer as attractive to men," she says. "no one's telling college girls it's easier to have kids in your 20s than in your 30s."

women who have chosen the single life sometimes have their own qualms. singlehood does not yield itself to a simple, blithe embrace. it's complicated, messy terrain because not needing a man is not the same as not wanting one. for all the laughs on sex and the city, one can feel the ache that comes when yet another episode ends with the heart still a lonely hunter. and if you think being a single woman is all fun and games, just listen to star parker, who is married to actor matthew broderick. even as she's become a mascot for the feisty new single woman, parker says she often stands on the set in her spike jimmy choo open-toes and see-through shirts, worried that she isn't being a good traditional wife. "i know he doesn't have his laundry done, that he hasn't had a hot meal in days," she says of her husband. "that stuff weighs on my mind." parker regales single friends with tales of how boring married life is and how much luckier they are to have freedom and fun. does she really believe it? "well, no," she admits. "it's just a fun thing to say to make single people feel better."

even women who generally reflect on their choices with assurance find themselves sometimes in the valley of what-ifs: what if i made the wrong choice to walk away? what if singlehood turns out to be not a temporary choice but an enforced state? "my sister knows that i'm good for a call every couple of months just crying, what's wrong with me?'" says henneberry. "i'm not willing to accept someone who's going to make me unhappy. but there are days when i have a physical need to go to sleep and wake up with someone there." mary mayotte, 49, has a successful bicoastal career as a public-speaking coach. but she admits the occasional pang of regret. "there was a point where i had men coming out of my ears," she says. "i don't think i was so nice to some of them. every now and then i wonder if god is punishing me. sometimes i look back and say, i wish i had made a different decision there.'"

some feel women are on an impossible search for the perfect man, the one who not only makes you feel, as julia roberts said of meeting benjamin bratt, "hit in the head with a bat," but also better for it. "marriage is not what it used to be, getting stability or economic help," says the national marriage project's whitehead. "marriage has become this spiritualized thing, with labels like best friend' and soul mate'" some sociologists say these lofty standards make sense at a time when the high divorce rate hisses in the background like darth vader. but others suggest the marriage pendulum has swung from the hollowly pragmatic to an unhealthy romantic ideal.

michael broder, a philadelphia psychotherapist and author of the art of living single, decries what he calls the "perfect-person problem," in which women refuse to engage unless they're immediately taken with a man, failing to give a relationship a chance to develop. "few women can't tell you about someone they turned down, and i'm not talking about some grotesque monster," he says. "but there's the idea that there has to be this great degree of passion to get involved, which isn't always functional. so you have people saying things like, if i can't have my soul mate, i'd rather be alone.' and after that, i say, well, you got your second choice.'"

single women are used to hearing this complaint, and most don't buy it. "some in my family think i'm not stopping till i find perfection," says henneberry. "i don't feel like that. i just want the one who makes me go, finally.'" harvard sociologist carol gilligan notes, "there's now a pressure to create relationships that both men and women want to be in, and that's great. this is revolutionary." even ellen fein, co-author of the notorious 1996 dating guide the rules, says her man-chasing disciples don't settle for just anyone. "most of my clients have jobs; they can pay the rent; they can take themselves out to dinner," says fein. "they want men to value them." many women can tell the story of a friend or relative who looked at her and said, "if you really wanted to be married, you'd be married." the comment can sometimes slap like a wet towel, in part because it is true and in part because of its implicit message: you could have compromised, perhaps settled, and been among the married. and so, the logic follows, you have no one to blame but yourself.

but these women have fought for years to be themselves--self-reliant, successful, clever, funny, willful, spirited--and for all the angst that the single life can bring, they're not willing to give it up for any arrangement that would stifle them. "it would be great if i found a relationship that allowed me to be as i am and added something to that," says documentary producer pam wolfe, 33, sitting in her one-bedroom condo in new york city. "but i'm not going to do anything to attract a person that means changing. i've worked long and hard to be myself."

--with reporting by tammerlin drummond/new york, elizabeth kaufman/nashville, anne moffett/washington, jacqueline savaiano/los angeles and maggie sieger/chicago

No doubt about anything said in the article. Some good stuff Long Stroker, thanks for sharing it man! Some scary shit too.......... I just don't know what to think of anymore, really, and far less so - what to expect of American / Americanized women. From very early ages they seem to evolve into becoming these feminazis / anti-man creatures. It's really scary. It's a good thing that I live approx. 2 hours away from TJ heaven because otherwise, I wouldn't even imagine what to do.

Thanks for posting that Time article Long Stroker. I looked it up on Google and I think its worth mentioning that its already 5 years old (2000). I have no problem at all that a woman isn’t interested in marriage these days. I know I´m not based on what Ive seen and what so many married guys have told me (never get married). Read about trends in Europe, which tends to lead the US in social issues, and you´ll see that the % of single parents, by choice (female and male) has skyrocketed over the last generation. IMO marriage is not the issue here.

American women are rejecting being women, not marriage. Of course the career excuses are always intertwined in this issue, again just an excuse. I believe that women should be fully liberated, have all the equal opportunities in the workforce/society etc. And they do in most “developed” nations and many less developed countries like my home country, Argentina.

To use Argentina as an example, there are more females than males enrolled in higher education in nearly all fields here (medicine, law, business) and I know from meeting with my lawyers, going to the optometrist, seeing the politicians in the news, that the presence of women is overwhelming everywhere (and I love it!) The difference is these women relish in their femininity and apparently (and from personal experience) love men. They don’t spend 16 hours a day in an office and 8 hours hibernating in a Manhattan apartment ignoring men until they are 35, then decide maybe it is time to try to find “one” only to realize that men aren’t lined up around the corner like when they were 25. They are socially and sexually active throughout their young adulthood.

I have visited Europe many times but only lived there briefly. Again the women there seem so much more beautiful, elegant, and male-friendly than American women, even though they also have areers and may not give a sh*t about some silly fairy-tale white wedding.

The US female is completely f*cked-up and not even worth considering. I couldn’t care less why they are like that, I'm just glad I'm 5000 miles away from them.

I often hear that women are the smarter of the species, but then encounter a situation that makes me think that a WOMAN coined that phrase.
I was watching 20/20 (I think that was the show) and they featured career women who were now too old to have children naturally because they had forsaken having children during their most fertile years. Can you BELIEVE that they thought they could beat Nature and have kids NATURALLY when they reach(ed) their very late 30's or 40's?? These same women were lamenting the fact that they never had kids and some of them lamented the fact that they didn't have a life partner (spouse, if you will). In their eagerness to rub men's noses in the dirt and express their freedom, they neglected to look at the whole picture.

Their younger sisters are relishing the here and now, what with men lining up to be with them, but they feel that can go on forever. They will eventually make the same mistake the aforementioned women made. After years of having their head in the clouds and having its weight supported by their own egos, it comes crashing to earth when they realize that A] they have some SERIOUS competition from babes who are now younger than they and B] they didn't act in their best interests when time was on their side. Now they are bitter and instead of assigning the proper amount of blame to a narrow-minded view that produced less than wise choices, they lay most if not ALL the blame on men not being the picture of perfection in order to fit the bill. The Superwoman myth was busted quite a while back; when they realize this and start thinking pragmatically, maybe they won't be such abominable creatures. Then again, I'd have better luck expecting Bush to wear a thong and pasties while pole dancing in a gay nightclub.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4542827.stm[/url]

I have just been listening to Dr. Laura (C.Schlessinger). Here are some of the phone ins:
1. Some lady who is 5'3'' and weighs in at 160 lb does not like her husband saying she is too fat and should lose weight.
2. Some lady has complained about her toddlers playing with plastic guns. She worries they might shoot up schools when they are old enough to go to school.
3. Some lady went with a married man for 6 months and then broke it off. Dr Laura advises her to phone up the guy's wife and say her husband plays around.
4. Some lady is pissed at her husband complaining about not liking his job.

I wonder what Dr Laura would think of this site.

Oh! As regards AW, gimme one before a "lady" from the "emerging democracy" of Saudi Arabia.

Impotent ex-husband ordered to pay damages.

Italy's Supreme Court backs woman's 'right to sexuality'

REUTERS

May 12, 2005ROME - An impotent Italian man who kept his problem a secret from his wife until after their wedding must pay her damages for "eroding" her right to have a family, Italy's Supreme Court has ruled.

The woman, identified by the Italian media as Cristina S., was quick to get her marriage annulled in the 1990s after learning to her horror that her husband could not consummate it. She then demanded damages, saying she had been robbed of her "right to sexuality" and the promise of a family. Despite losing legal battles in lower courts, she kept appealing, and finally the Supreme Court found in her favor.

"Her fundamental right (was) eroded to fully realize a family, as a woman and a wife, and eventually as a mother," according to excerpts from the court ruling published in Italian newspapers on Thursday. -Reuters

Gentlemen, the basic point here is that Western women in general believe that they have all the rights in relationships and that men have none. This attitude is no longer just limited to the USA. In fact, it is like cancer spreading throughout the body. It is no secret that contemplating marriage in certain countries is foolish. I wonder if a man could get damages awarded to him if his wife hid the fact that her pussy was loose or that she was barren until after the marriage?

I concede that the husband was wrong to have concealed his condition but the marriage was quickly annulled and the woman was free to exercise "her right" to a family at some other man's expense. The way in which she dogged this man until she got some money out of him smacks of extreme vindictiveness.

I think that the majority of us agree that American women are not the best choice for relationships that exceed a few hours or less in duration. However, I am interested in seeing some real alternatives besides the occasional mongering foray beyond our national borders. Some mongers may wish to go into retirement, mitigate the risks of the hobby by having one partner for a long period of time or they may not have much time for travel and are unable to relocate overseas for one reason or another.

I have noticed that in Latin America many women have husbands who have immigrated to the USA or Canada to work while their wives remain at home. I am sure that there must be American men who work in the USA and have foreign wives who remain in their country of origin and only visit the USA on tourist visas. This arrangement might actually work quite well since the woman would not be living in the USA and would be unlikely to become Americanized especially if she does not speak English and only visits for a short period of time.

I would like to see some posts from people who know of such or similar arrangements where guys are pretty much tied to their jobs with little vacation time. Hopefully, some useful ideas and options will appear for guys who are fed up with American women and really want to do something about it apart from going on parole from sex prison.

Chocha Monger,

Actually, frigid and barren women CAN be divorced or annulled ( the marriage, not the woman!) very easily in a canonical marriage. Particularly if she was aware of her inability to reproduce and concealed this fact.

As to looseness, that is relative. How well is the individual hung? ;)

Cheers,

Sporadic

Chocha Monger,

That sounds like an idea I posted on the "Suggestions" section of this forum some time ago: my idea was to have an "expatriate" forum where present, former, and wannabe expatriates could share notes pretty much along the same line as what you're talking about.

The inspiration struck me because, as a member of this forum for some time now, I've noticed that quite a few guys here pretty much agree that Westernized women basically suck eggs. The problem: not all of us can relocate at the drop of a hat, and probably wouldn't know how to do so, anyway (things like where to get a job, citizenship issues, buying/renting a house, etc.). A lot of us here apparently want to do it but just don't know where to start.

I guess that's why I like Mexico so much: besides being shackled with a weakness for Latinas, I was able to live as a "de facto" expatriate for five years by living (and exclusively mongering and dating) in Tijuana and Ensenada, and working in San Diego. The advantage was that (1) a man could live like a king on an American salary that would be considered "small potatoes" in the U.S., especially in Southern California; and (2) relatively little work needs to be done to establish one's self in a Mexican town, espacially one bordering a major U.S. metropolis.

As you can see, Mexico was a very easy foriegn country for relocation. But what about the guy who wants to go to Australia? Or Thailand? Or (for that matter) any other country not so close to U.S. shores?

That's one hell of setup, Smut Villain. Did you cross the border each day? What was your average round trip commute time?

Dude, the more I think about this, the more attractive it sounds. Vastly reduced cost of living, like you said. All the benefits of 3rd world living with a first world salary, without the inconvenience of living overseas. Can you elaborate more on the overall mechanics of how this thing worked for you?

Smut Villain,

Your arrangement where you lived in Mexico and worked in San Diego was very ingenius and a great compromise between having to move entirely to another country. Straddling the border can be a good solution for Mexicana lovers who want to avoid citizenship issues and the challenge of finding a job in Mexico that would pay enough to support their needs. Thank you for sharing your experience.

How, as you mentioned things get a bit more complicated as you move further afield. Countries that have relaxed immigration policies are being forced to tightened up and enforce tougher regulations as part of the "War on Terror" and the drive to keep illegal aliens out of the USA. This has inadvertently affected Americans overseas because there are no exceptions when foreign immigration officials start checking to see who overstayed their visit without going through the necessary bureaucratic red tape. The increased scrutiny has landed the Honduran Chief of Immigration in jail when it was discovered that he granted visas for Chinese illegals enroute to the USA via Honduras and sold passports to Colombians and other foreigners living in Honduras.

The ideal thing would be to bring a girlfriend to the USA to visit from time to time but this is much easier said than done. It is almost impossible for a female from a lesser developed country to get a US visa, especially if she is young and sexy. I have known a few who actually managed to get one but I think that it was due to pure luck and the consular official having had a marvellous BBBJ that morning before showing up for work.

Getting a tourist visa for a foreign wife may be easier and might offer a way around the pitfalls of permanently transplanting a nice woman to the USA only to have her become American. Marriage even overseas is still a big step but I think this might be a way to cut down on the risk and enjoy the best of both worlds. You don't have to file any papers swearing to support your wife for the next ten years in the USA since she is just visiting for a short time and there is very little incentive for her to try and run off and marry a wealthier man because: (1) She is already married (2) As a non-immigrant she is only legally in the country for a limited amount of time and cannot adjust status without first leaving, assuming that she is able to divorce and marry someone else willing to file the necessary paperwork. I think that these are two possible safeguards for those who want to go that route.

[quote=Long Stroker]Dude, the more I think about this, the more attractive it sounds. Vastly reduced cost of living, like you said. All the benefits of 3rd world living with a first world salary, without the inconvenience of living overseas. Can you elaborate more on the overall mechanics of how this thing worked for you?[/quote]

Well, I'll try to keep it short but to the point. I was in the Navy at the time and wound up getting stationed in San Diego. Nobody really likes staying on base, but when you consider the price of living in Southern California (even 10 years ago) this was a prohibitive option, at best. That's when a Hispanic-American friend told me about living in Tijuana, and I took the bait (haven't regretted it either). Here's how it stacks up:

[b]Commuting to/from work :[/b] I lived in Las Playas (literally, "the beach") so I chose to drive. A good way to avoid the infamous hours-long waits at the San Ysidro line (the main point of entry) one only needed to go to the next entry point (was it I-805? I can't remember now). Otherwise, the S.D. trolley only takes 30 minutes to go from the border to downtown San Diego. You usually get no hassle from U.S. Customs when crossing, but be careful about who/what you bring across.

[b]Housing :[/b] Average rent in Tijuana was WAY less than in the U.S. (I was paying $400/month for a five-bedroom house). Yes, Mexico does have cable TV and other amenities, but at a much lower cost IMHO. $30 easily got me a week's worth of groceries. Most of the heating /cooking power is via natural gas (don't forget to turn your bottle in to the neighborhood truck every week!). [u]CAUTION[/u]: It's very, very true what they say about the water, do NOT drink it from the tap - use bottled water instead (you'll immediatley notice how NONE of the locals will drink their own tap water). You can safely bathe and do laundry in it, though.

[b]Emergency Services[/b] : Comparable to being in a rural part of the U.S. in a lot of cases: the doctors aren't bad in an emergency (but stick to the U.S. for more serious stuff), and when you get away from downtown the cops aren't even that bad (a lot of them are even honest - imagine that!).

Depending on the neighborhood, the natives can be very friendly indeed (just great for dating/messing around). Just don't live near the fence, as that's like the ghetto (crime included).

I could go on but there's too much to talk about. Best thing about all this was that one only needed to move across the border to get the ball rolling, that's it. No passport, no visa, just go there.

SM,

Thats an informative post about TJ, I wouldnt have ever considered doing that. Not because Im lazy, I just have heard nothing but horror stories about Tiujuana. I have been to Mexico several times but mostly just the tourist areas like Cancun and the Texas border towns. I did go to Monterrey once and that place is not bad. However moving there would be something else since there are other places that are so great like Brasil / Argentina and also much cheaper. Also and most importantly, is there anything good about mexican women? Most of them I knew in the USA were so ugly I was turning them down. Also from my experience they tend to be quite conservative and religous (quite the contrary in other Latin American countries). One of the last girls I dated before leaving the US was mexican, she didnt give blow jobs, whats up with that.

Forgot to ask, are there any Caucasian women in TJ, or are they all aboriginies / indians like the Mexicans in the US?

Moving overseas has its own set of complexities, most of the Americans that I have met, who have succesfully moved abroad, tend to be highly successful. This is especially true for Americans who have moved to Europe. Australia isn't a difficult country to migrate to if you are under the age of 45 and are a skilled professional. Europe(at least the 15 original EU states, Norway, and Switzerland) and Australia have a standard of living that is comparable to the USA but both places offer a more relaxed lifestyle, in the form of longer vacations(Australians get about 5 weeks to 8 weeks off per year, Europeans in EU countries get 6-8 weeks).

[quote=CBGBConnisur]Moving overseas has its own set of complexities...[/quote]

Yeah, that's my point exactly; hence my proposal for an "expatriate" forum. Moving to another country is not exactly the [u]easiest[/u] undertaking in the world, and does indeed have its own pitfalls. But, if done right, it can be worth the trouble for the right people (for example, [u]you[/u] seem to be happy... :) )

[quote=Moore]I just have heard nothing but horror stories about Tiujuana...[/quote]

Actually it's no coincidence that most of those horror stories occur in the tourist areas. Kind of like judging the entire U.S.A. from what you see on only one street in only one town.


[quote]Also and most importantly, is there anything good about mexican women?[/quote]

Aside from the fact that I haven't experienced [u]half[/u] the head games from them as I have from American women, and that they seem much more approachable (of course, speaking fluent Spanish doesn't hurt ;) )


[quote]Most of them I knew in the USA were so ugly I was turning them down...[/quote]

Of course, you were in the U.S. at the time. Besides, three of the most attractive women I've ever dated were south of the border (just stay off the well-beaten tourist path).


[quote]Forgot to ask, are there any Caucasian women in TJ, or are they all aboriginies / indians like the Mexicans in the US?[/quote]

Actually they come in all flavors (just like American women). When you consider that the Spaniards had a colony there at one time, it makes sense that some of the people actually have European bloodlines (ever watch blond-haired blue-eyed [u]Christina[/u], the Univision talk show? And how do you explain Shakira?). I've even seen Mexicans with African bloodlines (they tend to come from the southern regions of the country).

I had many of the same doubts the first time I visited Mexico, but spending a week down there quickly erased any preconceived notions I may have had. Now I miss the damn place.

Hi All,

There is a comprehensive source of information about expatriation on the internet:

[url]www.escapeartist.com[/url]

I also would like to see an expatriation forum here on WSG.

"Bart"

Well, I have met Moore and he does speak good Spanish. I have successfully expatriated myself and I think the following are keys:

1) Language skills. I speak good Spanish and some French. You need to research your areas of choice and learn the language [b]before[/b] you show up there!
2) Portable job skills. This is a tough one. If you are a white collar professional, you will find that many of your skills don't transfer. You may need a more blue-collar type of skill. In my case I am a skilled cook, can operate a variety of heavy equipment, and am a landscaper.
3) Cultural knowledge. You'll likely not fit into the society you move to if you don't know anything about its history, for example.
4) Patience, flexibility, and initially reduced expectations. You'll be uncomfortable at times, lonely at times, and frustrated at times. How will you handle this? Will you cut and run back to the US or whatever your home country is at the first sign of problems, or will you give the situation some time to develop?
5) Some money saved up. This may seem obvious but you will not be increasing your Social Security benefits while living abroad, in most cases. At some point you will be old. Once your dick can no longer get hard it might or might not be worth it to live abroad any more. You may need to move back to the US, Canada, or wherever you are from at that point and eating cat food would not be a fun thing in your dotage. So I am talking about money saved up that you [b]never touch[/b] while you are an ex-pat.
6) Guts. Balls. A sense of adventure. The ability to make a decision and never look back, only forward.

México, while it may be the easiest for Americans and Canadians, is far from the best. And I love México. It is just that it is sexually conservative and not that cheap any more. And, you cannot drink the water. The poster who talked about commuting from TJ to San Diego I am sure had a good deal given his situation, but these border towns are not really México. The central highlands of México are awesome. San Luis Potosí, for example.

However definitely avoid Argentina. Crime is rampant, the women are fat, and the country is overrun with rats and bugs of all kinds.

Dickhead, are you sure you are referring to Argentina? If that was a description of Brazil, I would believe it but not Argentina.

That was a joke. I just don't want any more fucking gringos coming down here and messing everything up.

I'm sorry for you Dickhead but I think that the gringo invasion is inevitable. Eventually there will be so many gringos that the price of real estate and pussy will sky-rocket. History tends to repeat itself in many places, for example Costa Rica. Puerto Rico is a really extreme case of the results of this pattern. The island is not a state but it might as well be. The women there are almost bad as the ones on the mainland US except that they look better inspite of all the fast food joints on every corner.

Think of Argentina as California during the gold rush. However, prospectors are searching for a different kind of gold. If it is any consolation you can blame American women for pushing the gringo hordes ever further South. Now give me some tips on how to go about staking my claim on Argentina's pussy market before the other monger's price me out of a good deal! ;)

Well, you want to learn to speak Portuguese which is the official language of Argentina. You also have to get used to living in a tropical climate. Most people won't be able to handle the spicy food here, either, so get used to that. Plus, you have to learn to get along with black people as Argentina is about 70% black. Buenos Aires still has mostly unpaved dirt streets with open sewers or "jubes" running through them, and the donkey and ox carts tend to make getting around very difficult. But it's fun seeing the indigenous people in their native garb, placidly carrying their laundry on their heads to go wash it in the river.

OK all that is bullshit too but please go to Costa Rica instead.

[quote=Dickhead]OK all that is bullshit too but please go to Costa Rica instead.[/quote]

Dickhead,

Too late - I think you already fucked up (get ready for the Gringo invasion :) !)

Seriously, I don't think you have too much to worry about. From my experience, most Americans (while not entirely averse to visiting a foriegn locale) are a little too closed-minded to consider becoming an expatriate by choice (remember your [u]rule #6[/u]?). Or, in some cases, they're so ignorant of other cultures/countries that they have no idea of what they may be missing; you know as well as I do that a lot of people in the U.S. haven't had the opportunity to experience other cultures as we have (as an example, despite the proximity of San Diego to the international border you'd be surprised that more guys haven't taken advantage of the situation the way I did; I was sort of a rarity, actually).

So don't worry - most of the Gringoes will probably stay home by uninformed choice.

"From my experience, most Americans are a little too closed-minded to consider becoming an expatriate by choice. Or, in some cases, they're so ignorant of other cultures/countries that they have no idea of what they may be missing"

Smut,

What they are missing may be quasi-legal SW's and low priced pussy, I'll grant you that. But try to earn a decent living in Mexico or Argentina or Ukraine. Good luck. There is a reason that people wait in line or risk their lives just to get to the US. Economic opportunity, stability, freedom. I don't want to be the "I Love the USA" cheerleader, but I have been to TJ quite a few times. Call me crazy, but I would still prefer to live here. I like to drink the water. But even if I didn't, the opportunity to get ahead, support one's family and earn some serious cash is going to decide the day for most . . .

_P

The degree of freedom I experience now is far, far, FAR greater than the degree of freedom I experienced in the United States, which is rapidly becoming a fundamentalist theocracy.

So true DH. Since 9/11, laws have changed that IMHO change the character of American freedom.

The fundamentalist wave, though nothing new, has moved into the political area like never before. The "moral majority" of the early eighties was nothing more than a taste, a tiny taste of what is happening now. Scary, very scary.

Where I now live (Europe), I have to carry a national ID card, and the police have powers to stop you on the street or in your car without probable cause. Guess what? They only bother "troublemaker types." The John Q. Citizens never get bothered.

Who is more "free?"

Cheers,

Sporadic

"the police have powers to stop you on the street or in your car without probable cause. Guess what? They only bother troublemaker types" . . .

Well, that could put me in possible jeopardy. And Dickhead for damn sure.

While a want the freedom to buy some pussy or smoke a joint, I also want the chance to have a decent job or start a business. Or drink the water for that matter . . .

Pro, let me clarify.

When I said troublemakers, I was talking about very shady types... the kind that would get extra attention in any airport immigration queue. I am not talking about t-shirts, or long hair, but unkempt. Not unshaven, but unwashed.

Begging in the street, obviously shit-faced at 9am, slept in the gutter kind of "troublemakers." Any reasonable person, certainly anyone with the disposable income for p4p would not qualify.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Well, sometimes I am shit faced at 9 AM but that's only when I'm on my way HOME. Anyway down here you can get laid for $6 US if you want to so it doesn't take a whole lot of disposable income to monger. BTW I have had zero contact with cops in the 14 months I've lived here but in México they definitely can and [b]do[/b] stop you and search you with no probable cause. That happened to me in Guadalajara in 2004 and no, I wasn't drunk, and no, I wasn't mongering.

Actually there are some pretty hot looking female cops here. Nicely made up, cute hairdos, a little jewelry, not like the [b]fucking bull dyke macho ball busting pit bull female AMERICAN WOMEN cops[/b].

Multiple comments

1st I think we should be on another thread since this is the American Women section.

2nd I agree with DHs last post, which at least partially pertains to the proper subject. I have sprained my neck a few times looking at female cops in Buenos Aires.

3rd Prokofiev, right on. The US may suck in some fundamental ways but theres no doubt where Id go as an immigrant looking for the best overall prospects for my family and I, the USA, like my grandparents did.

4th Smut Villian, are there any sexy non-indigenous women in Mexico other than movie stars, pop stars, and rare decendants of ancient Spanish colonies that "actually have European bloodlines" (lets talk about the common women you see all day everywhere in the street for a second)? I havent watched Univision lately so I dont know who Cristina is. Pretty sad when you have to think of soap operas and MTV to come up with a "mexican" (isnt Shakira Colombian?) woman that you wouldnt have to headdress with a grocery bag. To me the point of relocating is to go to a place overridden with attractive sexual women (ie supply far exceeds demand). I just never saw that in Mexico anywhere. Its the worst country I believe Ive ever visited for women, although well-travelled colleages have told me that Bolivia is worse.

5th Argentina will never be Puerto Rico or Costa Rica. Its simply to far away for that to happen, which has been proven well my many other great places that have existed for many years. See other threads for more posts.

M

Shakira is indeed Colombian, born in Barranquilla. I love México. It is deep in my heart and in my soul and I have been going there since I was six years old. However, it is chronicly fucked for reasons that are very complex to explain, upon which I have expounded in earlier posts. [b]But and importantly[/b], although the [b]average[/b] quality in México is fairly low, [b][i]some[/i] of the most beautiful women on the planet[/b] can be found there. Just so fucking gorgeous that when you look into the liquid pool of their eyes, you melt clean away like the tigers in "Little Black Sambo." And to fuck a Méxican chica takes the time and patience that I once had before I discovered South America where pussy is on a rack by the door. Catholicism is a serious thing in this country. But once they give it up, IME, they give it [b]all[/b] up; heart, soul, pussy (ass not really but homey don't go there), and they are [b]loyal[/b]. However, being loyal also means they are [b]jealous as hell[/b]; it's unbelievable.

But as Moore points out, this is the [b]American[/b] Women thread. So, in conclusion, I would state that the average American woman could not fuck her way out of a dry cleaning bag. In contrast, Méxican women have handed down through the ages an excellent pussy control that they will only show you if they actually like you. Otherwise, they just lie there. And yeah, they would rather fuck than suck.

[QUOTE=Dickhead]That was a joke. I just don't want any more fucking gringos coming down here and messing everything up.[/QUOTE]

I don't have any plans to live in Argentina, currently I'm in Australia and am very happy here, Australia's got all of the comforts of the US but the women are not as prudish as American females, especially towards sex. I could get laid buying a couple of beers for a 20 year old blonde Elle lookalike. For obvious reasons, leaving the US and moving to another country is not an option for many. I tried Europe and wound up severely dissappointed(seeing a security guard in a Budapest Supermarket with an AK-47, living in an apartment with no heat, sticking out like a pimple on a donkey's ass because I only speak English, etc.), they just don't accept foreigners over there, even Americans will have substantial hurdles to climb in order to live and work legally there. The economy is in the complete shits over there because of the overvalued Euro.

Why is it Europe's fault that you only speak English?

[quote=Dickhead] Why is it Europe's fault that you only speak English?[/quote]

Dickhead, I don't think that's what CBGB meant by his statement. Gringos can stick out like a sore thumb in a lot of places, even Australia (I know I did when some "Sheilas" heard my American accent).

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on which country is the best for relocating. I think one man's princess is another man's troll, and the only thing anyone here seems to agree on is that Westernized women pretty much drive us to consider such drastic measures.

P.S. to Prokiev: I never said I wanted to [u]work[/u] in Mexico - I'm not crazy ;). Maybe that's why I liked "straddling" the border; I get to have my U.S. $$$$ while spending what is (even during present times) considerably less on living expenses than in a lot of American locales.

What is so "drastic" about relocating to another country? Look at the EU (another reason CBGB's post is suspect); you have 20 countries with different languages, customs, cultures, and cuisines, and the people are all moving freely about. Look at Amsterdam. It's absurd to say they "don't accept foreigners there."

Why is relocating to another country such a big deal as compared to relocating to another state or another city? It's fucking easy if you do some research and preparation. I've lived in six countries in my life. Four of them I enjoyed more than living in the US. I bet I will live in at least five more countries before I die.

Don't know the language? Learn it. They won't let you work legally? Work illegally. Don't have any money saved up? Sell your house and your car and your stupid assed jet skis and ATVs.

How many people have ever robbed a bank? How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards. Stock it with food, clothing, and other supplies on your credit cards. Drive it into México and disappear.

FUCK Bush.
FUCK American cows.
FUCK the religious right.
FUCK anything that will stand still long enough.

DH!,

"How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards"

Hey, thanks for the sound financial advice. How's that illegal job coming along at the Mansion?

Have you been hitting the sauce again tonight???

During my divorce, my ***** of an American ex-wife filed a number of false accusations against me to get as much money as possible. One of her allegations was that I had intentions of fleeing to South America. The judge recognized that as bullshit immediately since there was no evidence of me liquidating or transferring assets. Anyway, when I discovered how much money I had to pay in alimony and child support combined I actually contemplated making good on her lie.

However, there is one little detail that must be taken into account when becoming a fugitive from financial obligations. You can never return. This includes transitting through the US when travelling by air. For some reason most international flights from South America to other regions seem to transit through the US which would not be good for you if you're a wanted man.

What happens if they were to cancel your passport? If you only have US citizenship then you're screwed. I'd rather find a way to send the old hag a check rather than having to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. Being an American illegal overseas sounds quite adventurous but I'd check out the alternatives first.

No problem, PK. Any time. Another great way to make money here is to buy all your beer at Norte where the deposit is 60 centavos and then return them all at Disco for 65 centavos. It's huge.

Or marry a rich American woman. I've married four American women and been widowed each time. The first three died from eating poisoned mushrooms and the fourth one died from a blow to the head. That's what she gets for not eating the mushrooms.

I don't work at the mansion, though. I tried to talk them into paying me 50 pesos to cook the dinners, so that there would not be 20 steaks, all medium well, and so the chicken would not sit out at room temperature all day long, but they were too cheap to do it.

Fuck banks. They lie all the time. For example "18% APR" is really over 19.7% effective interest.

[QUOTE=Dickhead]What is so "drastic" about relocating to another country? Look at the EU (another reason CBGB's post is suspect); you have 20 countries with different languages, customs, cultures, and cuisines, and the people are all moving freely about. Look at Amsterdam. It's absurd to say they "don't accept foreigners there."

Why is relocating to another country such a big deal as compared to relocating to another state or another city? It's fucking easy if you do some research and preparation. I've lived in six countries in my life. Four of them I enjoyed more than living in the US. I bet I will live in at least five more countries before I die.

Don't know the language? Learn it. They won't let you work legally? Work illegally. Don't have any money saved up? Sell your house and your car and your stupid assed jet skis and ATVs.

How many people have ever robbed a bank? How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards. Stock it with food, clothing, and other supplies on your credit cards. Drive it into México and disappear.

FUCK Bush.
FUCK American cows.
FUCK the religious right.
FUCK anything that will stand still long enough.[/QUOTE]

I lived in Europe for nearly, a year, I didn't think that I was free to move about in any way. In most European countries you have to register your address and purpose of stay(if more than 3 months) with the local police department. One of the below posters mentioned that Europeans carry national ID cards and can be arrested by police without probable cause and for merely their appearance. I talked to locals, especially immigrants(who are pressured to 'assimiliate') who feel very ostracized and left on the periphery of society. The economic situation in Europe is absolutely terrible, most European countries have 10+% unemployment, Germany has 12.6%(some regions of the country have joblessness as high as 30%) and it is considered to be the richest country with the best standard of living in Europe. What good is it to go to a country where even the local people can't find a job?

Honestly its better to take off for a year, find your girl, charm the hell out of her and bring her back home to some small town. I think if you a bring a foreign women to a big city in America, the glamour and lights might change her, if you go someplace more low key it might be different.

CBGB,

Try looking at your last post from the perspective of an immigrant to the US.

Not expected to assimilate? Having to register? ever heard those PSA´s on the radio? All Immigrants must register etc?

30% unemployment, granted in some cases, but with free medical care and basic social services in most countries.

Cops being more tuned in to "shady types" is a worldwide fact, try it sometime with a southern Sheriff!

Hey, do whatever you want, but I suggest a US citizen will have an easier time all-around than would a non-Us citizen emigrating to the States.

...and to keep things topical, my first wife was ´murican, the second European. Guess which one is better. ;)

cheers,

Sporadic

Hey gents!

I've been reading the recent subject matter and I find it very intriguing. I think all of you (especially you, ChochaMonger) should purchase and read the book by J.J. Luna titled: "How to be Invisible". The stuff is ALL legal and will keep you below the radar of the constabulary and the government WHEREVER you may reside. Many of the tactics laid out are those that I myself will employ in the not too distant future when I am able to do so. The book was written BEFORE 9/11 BUT this guy has survived and PROSPERED "underground" in a society that was even MORE repressive than today's "DubyaLand".

Heh, looks as if this discussion on expatriates has taken on a life of its' own. I was tempted to comment on how we might be getting a bit off subject, but when you think about it this really isn't that far off topic; after all, why wouldn't any man consider moving elsewhere when trapped in a nation of self-centered, manipulative, and sometimes emasculating little trolls masquerading as "women"? Perhaps this discussion actually deserves its own forum after all?

I don't know if this expatriation thing is right for [u]everyone[/u], but admit it - it's probably crossed your mind at least once in your lifetime :)

I'm gonna do it for sure.

My plan is to save up as much as it takes. Then I want to have one house here and another one in my country of choice. Then I'll live a 6 month 50/50 split btw the two.

That way one can get the benefits of both, enjoy good weather all year 'round without missing out or getting homesick.

Just in case you guys think this sounds too expensive, remember that in many countires it cost maybe a grand a month to live like a king. That will pay for the airfare. In fact, I'll actually need LESS money to retire..... even factoring in the extra $$$ for a second house.

Rock

Smut,

I usually don't post stuff like this since I truly believe that most of Mexico, including Mexico City is SAFER than my own neighborhood. After all, the US is one of the most violent countries on earth and my area is worse than most. But this post from the TJ board seems relevant.

And if you live somewhere but don't work there, well the little problem of supporting yourself rears it's ugly head. I am a long time advocate of earning your money in the US and retiring or living part-time abroad and have done so in various countries - Spain, Mexico. But packing it in early to move and live in most foreign locales is usually an economic mistake IMHO.

As to getting back to the topic of American Women, I also am a big supporter of the gals here in the US of A. Too often you guys compare having a marriage or LT relationship of equals here in the US with some 18 yo Latina SW without shoes who you met on a weekend vacation and blew you for an ice cream cone. Apples and oranges. Until you've had some reasonable LT relationship with a professional Mexican or Argentinian woman, you simply can't make any meaningful comparisons. I've dated several upper class Mexican women - lawyer, college professor, store owner, etc - and believe me, they were very conservative and wanted much the same things as Am. women. In Argentina, I found the ladies to be surprisingly status concious and very concerned with appearances - especially yours. Same thing in Spain. Yes, the street pussy is better and cheaper but the comparison ends there. And looking over my lifelong list of conquests, I must confess that the best lover's I have known were all Americans. And one of them was other here last night . . . Thank God. Have Fun, -P
_______________________________________________
--Tijuana Awash in Wave of Violent Crime
The slaying of a police official Saturday is the latest in the region's string of killings, many targeting wealthy businessmen.
By Richard Marosi
Times Staff Writer
May 22, 2005

TIJUANA — The exploits of the Comando Negro, or Black Commandos, are part of a dark season of violence that has set new standards for brazenness and frequency in this crime-weary city

Fueled in part by warring drug cartels, bodies in recent months have been turning up almost daily in empty lots, ravines and streets. Many victims were mangled by torture, their heads wrapped in tape. Some bodies have been dissolved in tubs of acid. One body, the son of a local magistrate, was missing its right hand.

Homicides in Tijuana totaled 163 in the first four months of this year, compared with 92 in the same period last year — a 77% increase.. In April, 55 homicides, a monthly record, were committed, police said. Los Angeles, by comparison, a city more than two times larger, had 36 homicides in April.

Tijuana's crime surge is part of a wave plaguing many Mexican border cities. Crime in the Tijuana metropolitan area, Shirk said, has reached unprecedented heights. "This is probably the most bloody period of Tijuana's history," he said.

Crime waves are nothing new in this sprawling border metropolis. Previous surges in violence have claimed the lives of politicians, high-ranking police officials and prosecutors. But some recent incidents have spilled into public places in upscale neighborhoods that in the past had been mostly free of violent crime.

Prokofiev,

You said that we were "comparing apples and oranges" when talking about US women versus Latinas. Then you went on to state that several high-class mexican women that you dated wanted similar things to north american women. I'm gonna make one assumption here... and will take it for granted that these were fairly attractive, professional type women.

The thing is, you actually got to go out with them in the first place! So many women here are homely, average, or out of shape. So many of the pretty ones are already taken. The ones that aren't frequently turn out to be lesbians, man-hating or just plain loaded down with so much emotional baggage from past relationships that they aren't worth the time and effort it takes to get to the fun part.

Sure, you can't just expect to get laid right off the bat with an upper class hispanic woman. But at least you have a decent chance of finding a good one who will like you.

Rock

Rock Dog, thanks for taking the words from my mouth :).

Prokofiev (sorry about getting your name wrong the first time), none of this is really news to me - remember, I lived there for five years. While there is truth to what you say (I've even seen it myself), the dating scene still tops what I'm experiencing back in my home territory. And no, I'm not necessarily talking about street girls. Like I mentioned earlier this isn't everyones' cup of tea; it's just something that worked for [u]me[/u]. Doesn't mean it's the ultimate solution. My fault for not clarifying that earlier, but I'm sure you know what I'm saying anyway.

Besides, there were other reasons I preferred life south of the border; I love the culture, and that city seems to have a certain [u]energy[/u] flowing through it, even during the weeknights. I really enjoyed myself there.

But you do bring up some [u]excellent[/u] points for one to consider before taking the plunge.

prokofiev and i have never met but we were in argentina at the same time, banging the same hooker on basically alternating nights. now [b]she[/b] sure as hell wasn't status conscious or concerned with appearances. i dated a lawyer down here and she raped me on our first date. i met another young lady, 19 years old and from an upper class family. it took me two coffee dates and showing her how i worked over the internet to get into her pants.

so obviously my argentinean experience was a lot different than his, probably because he is more of a classical violinist while i am just a fucking dickhead. either way it sure beats the us of a. my best lovers have all been latinas. i happen to know where pk lives and i think the women there are probably way above average by us standards but the weather there sucks. here we have a nice four season climate and more women than you can shake a stick at.

but don't forget about the snakes and the malaria here. leprosy too. stay away.

Thank you for your recommendation of that book Sinanju Master. It seems that it has quite a bit of useful information for guys in my situation. I will acquire a copy and study it deligently.

"As to getting back to the topic of American Women, I also am a big supporter of the gals here in the US of A." Prokofiev, I can't blame you for feeling that way. Hell, today I got the best BBBJ of my young life from a hot blond all American girl. She sucked my dick like a candy cane! She didn't touch it with her teeth even when the truck hit a curb and lurched wildly sending my shaft deep into her larynx. When my volcano blew its dome, she didn't try to back off as my scalding load blasted her tonsils. The best thing about this meaningful life experience was that it only cost me $25. It seems that when American women want or need money really badly they can surprise you and step up to the plate. When the going gets tough, the tough get blowing. The best part is that I really didn't think that she would go for it when she was told what I wanted in return for my kindness. Anyway, American girls do have their purpose in life just as long as things are kept in perspective. ;)

My two cents on professional Latina women is that it is true that they are concerned about appearances in their community. However, this can be misleading if taken out of context. These women may ask you to dress or behave conservatively in public but in private they will screw your brains out while begging you fuck them in the most inappropriate manner. One particular woman comes to mind now. She had a very serious face and though she was very beautiful it made one hesitant to approach her. After some time of enduring reproaches from her for my vulgar language I finally got into her pants one night. She hadn't had a shafting in a while and she was hot and explosive. Later she confided in me that she was wet and craving for cock but had to behave conservatively since no one in the community knew that she was dating me. Apparently, once she introduced me as her boyfriend her colleagues in the neighborhood understood my extremely late comings and goings. :)

"I happen to know where PK lives and I think the women there are probably way above average by US standards"

Well, I live in New Orleans and if you mean prettier, that's a long shot. But the women are probably more friendly and more drunk and the tourists are always looking to get into trouble.

Still, I would prefer to think that my luck with American women has something to do with ME . . . Perhaps not.

As to María, she dropped out of school at 13 to be a maid. As a broke single mom without education, I wouldn't consider her a valid comparison to American Women in general. And we WERE paying her $money and could both be her father. A sweet girl who gives great head and then washes the dishes, but I can't say I learned much about Argentinian women from her. What you learn is that prostitution is legal in much of the world and the girls will work a lot cheaper. With that, we have no arguement.

The point that American women are crap has been made thousands of times. That is a simple deduction, but getting to move abroad, particularly in this day where there is a lot economic slowdown around the world is an issue.

". . .The thing is, you actually got to go out with them in the first place! So many of the pretty ones are already taken. The ones that aren't frequently turn out to be lesbians, man-hating or just plain loaded down with so much emotional baggage . . ."

Well, yeah you have to be able to get a date to begin with, that's a given. And the pretty ones are taken? Usually works out that way. Taken by whom? By other guys that they would prefer to be with. And I suppose the definition of a man-hating lesbian is that she won't sleep with YOU.

Look, if you can't score a date in the US you are not going to be a chick magnet in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona . . . or even Buenos Aires or Mexico. Yes, you will get laid if you bring some extra cash and not very much is required. Most of the guys I met or have knowledge of down in BA are 40-65 and looking to bang a cute 18-25 y/o prostitute. Can't blame them. Me too. But most can't even communicate on a basic level with the girls and sure the hell aren't getting to 1st base without cold hard cash. The fantasy of any kind of mutual relationship with these women is just that - total fantasy. It is a job to them and they do it very well. But getting a great $25 blow job in BA or Thailand doesn't say shit about the American wife(s) who divorced you back in the US. Try bringing your little toy back home. A Russian bride, or Chinese immigrant, or Mexican hottie with 3 kids - it usually ends up the same, except she can't read . . .

Peace, -P

Well PK I don't agree with you. Perhaps it is the sheer economic differential but [b]regular professional women who are not hookers[/b] are much easier to get dates with down here as compared to the United States, at least for me. It is as if when I ask an American woman out, her attitude is "Why?" whereas here their attitude is "Why not?"

I'm certainly open to the possibility this has less to do with me and more to do with the fact that my income is in the 90th percentile here vs. the 30th percentile there, but that in and of itself says much about what American women are looking for. Here a woman needs a man to achieve economic security in many cases. In the US that is not the case but they are still looking for a guy with money.

Then again, it might also have something to do with the fact that out of every 100 American women I meet, I would want to go out with maybe 5 of them, whereas here out of every 100 I would want to go out with maybe 35 of them. Of course usually I don't bother and just fuck hookers but it's a nice option to have.

Maybe tonight I will fuck María's sister. She's not lactating any more.

[QUOTE=Prokofiev]". . .
Look, if you can't score a date in the US you are not going to be a chick magnet in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona . . . or even Buenos Aires or Mexico.
[/QUOTE]
I strongly disagree, women around the world have different attitudes and different tastes, something that maybe desirable to one group of people, may not be so to others. When I go abroad, I find it easier to build rapport with local women, the quality of which is remarkably better than the US. I have a lot of friends who live abroad, one of them is in Sweden, and hooks up with 9+ gorgeous blondes that wouldn't give him the time of day back home. He's a decent looking guy but not with a lot of money, Swedish women don't tend to be as materialistic as American women, so he is able to get women on his own merits. Money is a big thing with American women, the best looking American women almost always go for guys with money. In other countries, other factors are more important, looks, personality, etc..

I think someone who goes to a country where he is 'exotic' will have an easy time hooking up with women simply for the mere fact that he is perceived to be different. Someone could be the artiste in Paris but a shithead in New York.

Dickhead is right, I've never once asked an Argintine out on a date, dinner movie etc. that they didn't say yes. I didn't always hit it out of the park but they always let me up to bat. I agree 100% that their attitude is "why not" verses the "why?" here in sex prison.

Oh yes, in keeping with the thread, American women suck.

That is an great comparison of the AW's attitude to that of her overseas sister. The single word "why" effectively encapsulates many of the opinions that American women hold about themselves, while "why not" accurately reflects the more easygoing (and inherently more feminine) attitudes of women abroad.

I've been working on a Grand Unified Theory concerning American Women, and I believe that I'm getting pretty close. Here's a sample:

American women today truly believe that one of the primary reasons that men exist is to boost their self-esteem. Only by rejecting men's advances, criticizing their opinions and beliefs, and in general reminding men that they are no longer needed in this society can they truly feel good about themselves.

Why do you think they get all dressed up on Saturday night and go out to the club in packs of four skirts to a table? To dance, drink and be merry, and shoot down guys all night long, of course. Certainly, if there happens to be any thugs in the house, recently released from prison or otherwise, at the club that night, she'll probably go home with one of them and let him come on her face after fucking her up the ass. But, hopefully, there will be plenty of regular, average, decent guys there that she can shoot down instead in order to make her feel good about herself.

Now, mind you, considering the sorry state of most women's self-esteem these days, being so responsible for a woman's well being is a pretty tall order. It's even worse for a man in a relationship. The average man must shoulder a tremendous amount of abuse before the woman he's with even begins to start feeling as good about herself as Oprah tells her she should feel everday. (Her "Spirit" I believe Oprah calls it.) You see, male-female relationships in America today have become a zero-sum game. Benefits for one party can only come at the expense of the other. Don't ask me why, though, because I haven't figured that part out yet. Maybe it has something to do with this creeping commercialism that's infesting all of modern life. I don't know.

P: Yet again, you sum things up beautifully. These guys are going out looking for a good time on their terms and they object that women do the same, like fucking a bit of rough just out of the State Pen. Sometimes, many times, I have been that bit of rough and I have made the best out of it:D

Guys,

You are not going to believe this. I have met the girl of my dreams and she is an American Woman. I just met her yesterday but we are madly in love. She has taught me the error of my misogynistic ways. I always approached a relationship from the standpoint of what I would get out of it. She has taught me that this is terribly wrong! A sustainable relationship should be based on a partnership of equals who engage in sharing, learning and loving together. She helped to open up my heart to all the possibilities of love right after we moved all my money to a joint checking account! We're getting married next week!

I'll say it's about time cupid took an interest in a good little boy like

Long J Longstroker

Take care guys! I'll probably be too busy fucking my wife to post here anymore. She told me I can have sex with her whenever I want after we're married!

American women can have as much fun as they want on their terms as long as it's not at my financial or mental expense. I will surely not be in line to go up to them in a bar or club only to be shot down for the sake of entertainment. Neither will I buy them drinks with the hope of being acknowledeged as a supplicating fool.

I have no problem with them fucking thugs. I have reaped benefits from this phenomenon when I have been mistaken for one at some time or another. The problem is that they get drunk on liquor paid for by the decent guys so they can have an excuse for fucking the thug when they see their friends then next day. It's the hypocrisy that annoys men when these same women try to convince them that they want a nice guy. What they want is a nice (stupid) guy to finance their fun.

Girls can have fun as long as they're not looking for someone in whom they have no interest to finance that fun. I don't think that women would be thrilled if men got together in a group dressed with expensive suits and flashing wallets stuffed to the seams with hundred dollar bills for the sole purpose of attracting decent women and then blowing them off for laughs, especially if at the end of the night the guys chose the roughest looking bar-fly to go home with.

I realized what this little game was about a long time ago so I only go to bars here in the US to get sauced with drinks that I can't mix myself. The pack of she-wolves in the corner look mighty thirsty. Maybe, some sheep will come along and help them slake their thirst.

After a year and a half out of the US, I would not [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in their mouths if their teeth were on fire. This is only my opinion and relates to them as sex partners only. They can be decent as friends, in situations where they don't have your balls in their hands.

[quote=Chocha Monger]I realized what this little game was about a long time ago...[/quote]

Chocha Monger,

Your last post sounds disturbingly familiar to me. Back when I was in the San Diego/Tijuana area there used to be a nightclub just outside the Navy base called the "Trophy Lounge" (anybody here ever heard of it?). This place was known for being a notorious "meet market" for Filipina wives and their friends, and most young wannabe studs figured they could get a easy lay there (I should know - I was one of those wannabes).

Anyways, I was talking with a close female friend there one night and she broke the game down for me like this: a lot of the girls there, before the night is over, already have three guys picked out - one to buy them drinks, one to take them to breakfast after the club, and one they actually intend to fuck. I didn't believe her until, at her behest, I started looking around; it was fucking incredible! These young horny guys were getting played [u]big-time[/u], and in exactly the way she described!!! You'd see them dancing or sitting at a table with a couple of guys, and leaving the club with someone entirely different. Later on, just as she predicted, you'd see them leave the restaurant with a [u]third[/u] guy. It wouldn't have been such a big deal were it not for the fact that I saw this same game being played by (what seemed to be) half the females in the club (or that a large number of the female patrons were Navy wives whose husbands were at sea). I couldn't believe I often fell for the same shit myself :) !

My eyes were rudely opened that night, and 10 years later I still haven't forgotten that lesson. Seems that men aren't the only pigs.

I haven't been to the US much in the past 5 years, as far as mongering is concerned, the US is a waste of time. Even if you have money, the pickings are slim, its better to go either north of the border to Canada or South to Mexico. Personally, crossing from the Northeast US into Quebec Canada there is a big difference in the overall attitude of French Canadian women compared to their US counterparts, there's also a big difference in their outward appearance, walk down a street in Montreal during the summer and you will be amazed, and this little pussy paradise is only a few hour drive away from the States. As far as my earnings are concerned, I wasn't earning much in the US, and making an average income in Australia, yet in the latter I get more rapport with women, and women don't ask me how much I make or what I do for a living, like what happens in the US. One Australian woman I knew even said most Australian girls don't care to be rich or care about money, that comment sold me on staying in Oz. I wanted to live in a country with better women than the US but also wanted to live in a place where I could drink the water and live in a relatively free society. I was considering a western European country and spent some time there but realized, that it is difficult for a foriegner to migrate there so the choice came down to Quebec Canada or Australia, I picked Australia for its near perfect climate.

You can drink the water here in Buenos Aires. I drink several liters of it every day. Also the toilet situation is much better than in Europe although not as good as in Australia which may have the best toilets in the world.

When I told one favorita that there are no bidets in the US, she asked, "Then how do American women wash their pussies?" and I have no answer to that. I don't recall seeing bidets in Australia either but it's been a while.

Furthermore Buenos Aires has the best ice cream in the world. But stay away anyhow because of the many huge, poisonous snakes and the fact that you can get ten years in prison for patronizing a prostitute.

I wasn't specifically referring to Argentina but other places that are popular for mongering(Brazil, Thailand, Russia, etc). I have not been to Argentina specifically, I actually know an Argentinian woman who lives in Australia, from her accounts its supposed to be very modern and resembles a European country more than one in South America. Australian employers grant their workers between 5 to as many as 8 weeks of vacation a year, so I get plenty of opportunity to visit many places. Traveling abroad isn't as expensive as most people think, if you try to stick to more modest accomodations, food, etc. you can do a lot with a little.

Anyone who lives in the Northeast US should visit Montreal for a weekend, even though its just across the border, the women there are on a completely different wavelength compared to their counterparts to the south. Its such a weird experience that a place so close to home could be so different.

Most women wash their pussies with Douche solutions in the US and other anglo countries, that's why they don't use bidets. I went to Germany, German women have the cleanest undercarriages around, almost always shaven, and they don't use bidets.

It's a dream job - a high-level position in Bangkok with an interesting company and an expatriate's salary. A beautiful, company-subsidised apartment that takes up one floor of a luxury building. A maid, a car and a driver on call 24 hours a day.

But for Julie Sleva, a Canadian citizen who is an executive with French cosmetics firm L'Oreal, the dream becomes hollow when she leaves her office. Although young and attractive, Sleva lives the often lonely life of a Western female expat professional in a culture where men rule - a life with no serious relationships and few dates. "Outside of the office, it's tough," thirtysomething Sleva says.

For single Western men, Asia can be a paradise of exotic, beautiful women more than willing to pamper them and inflate their egos. The perks of an expat life - cheap maids, company-paid drivers and members-only clubs - relieve married couples of many of life's daily hassles, including the chores of child-rearing.

But for single Western caucasian women like Sleva, it's a different story. Accomplishments in the office are often overshadowed by solitary private lives, and even the most casual Saturday night date with a man is a distant memory. Many such women feel their chances of having relationships are negligible while they are in Asia.

For Sleva, whose marriage to a Canadian man ended seven years ago, it is a constant frustration. Although she's happy to date both Thai men and foreigners, she says "you never see Thai men with expat women, and expat men are either married, gay or have a young Thai girl hanging on to their arm. You sit in a car near Soi Nana [a popular night-time entertainment district] and you can't believe what walks out of that place - the ugliest, grossest men with beautiful Thai women. It's so easy for the Western man."

Sleva's experience is far from unusual. Many other expatriate women I meet agree with her.

Yet the subject is taboo. Beyond the fact that it is a deeply personal, often painful element of life for women such as Sleva, discussing it opens up a minefield of sexual and racial stereotypes.

In many cases, the stereotypes are accurate, but not always. Some Western men in Asia meet and marry smart or high-powered Asian women - or overseas-born Asian women who are far more interested in succeeding in their careers than in indulging their husband's every whim.

Some Western women are happy to be out of the dating game and in a world where they - like their workaholic male counterparts - can devote themselves to climbing the corporate ladder with more visibility than they might enjoy in the United States or Europe.

The difficulties of many single white women in Asia are so widespread that counsellors are dealing with it every day.

"It takes a toll," says Melanie Bryan, a psychologist in Hong Kong. Bryan's client base is telling: half of them are are single Western women.

"People don't get a sense of self-worth from just one part of their lives," she notes. "Because a woman is a professional doesn't mean she lacks aspirations for a relationship as well, and quite often these aspirations have to be put on hold. I see women drink more. I definitely see them depressed. I had a new patient the other day who was just hammering away at herself. She felt washed-up at the age of 36."

Many of the women who agree with such views are willing to tell their stories only if their names aren't attached. Two women I meet, who have had various Asian postings for United Nations agencies, described their dual lives - great accomplishment and loneliness.

One of them, a US citizen, has given up hoping for a relationship or children, but the rewards of her work over more than a decade in Asia have made the sacrifices worthwhile. She wants to use her name, but says "this wouldn't go over well with the UN".

Another woman, an American who has worked in Asia for a consumer-products company for four years, says it didn't take her long to learn what awaited her. "Before they transferred me, my company sent me to Asia for a look-see," she says. "On the plane coming back I met a woman leaving Asia after eight years. After a few Jack Daniels, she told me, 'Honey, Asia is single-man heaven and single-woman hell'."

Forget dating, she says. "Most Western men are married, and if they're not married, they're playing around big time. And I don't look anything like those sweet little Thai women."

The loneliness is compounded by a lack of understanding in others. "Why do you not have a husband?" is a question taxi drivers, maids, shop assistants and even the most casual Asian acquaintances don't hesitate to throw at single women both Western and Asian.

"It certainly is difficult for a single Western career woman anywhere in Asia to have a fulfilling life," says David Bailey, a counsellor in Bangkok with Psychological Services International. "Most companies don't adequately prepare their executives for living overseas, and they assume they have their personal lives sorted out."

The contrast between the lives of single expat men and women in Asia is illustrated by Sleva's friend and co-executive, Martin Mirmand, who manages L'Oreal's luxury division. Like Sleva, Mirmand is young and attractive. But there the similarity ends. Mirmand, a 32-year-old Frenchman, says his expat existence is "very easy from a lifestyle point of view - the comforts of living, the opportunities to do things after work." "It's very easy to be a man in Thailand, that is for sure," he says.

By contrast, except for nights when she has a work function, Sleva's evenings are spent far removed from bars and nightclubs. She often stays home and eats a spicy Thai salad prepared by her maid.

Marisa Vidaurre, director of St John's Cathedral Counselling Services in Hong Kong, says Sleva's story is typical. "What they relate to me is that expat men are not interested in women who are going to be challenging," she says. "A lot more Asian women culturally find it easier to make men feel better about everything they do. It's hard for a man to resist when every word out of your mouth is a pearl of wisdom and every joke is funny."

So why don't these lonely women return to the West?

"Your career track can be quite rewarding in Asia," says Vidaurre. "When you go back, you are one among the many. It's harder to do special things."

Despite her loneliness, Sleva won't consider asking for a transfer back to Canada or the US. She still wants her satisfying job and to immerse herself in a new culture.

PZ: Jesus. At least post a source or a link to the article. I can Tell you Did not Write it YouRself.

CB: So do they carry these Douche solutions with them so they are handy after every time they take a dump? No, I didn't think so.

In general, I have found that American women excercise relatively poor hygiene, especially for the richest country in the world. Australian women are the world's cleanest ladies, followed by Italians, Spaniards, and Scandinavians, I have never noticed any pussy odor, body odor, smelly feet, or bad breath on an Australian woman, something that I have seen on many American ladies even those with money and "Class"(whatever that is).

Dickhead, let me guess, since Argentina is south of the equator like Australia, the seasons are in reverse, that would mean the warmest time of the year there would be from December to February? I was looking into some travel packages for Buenos Aires, the cost of a one month package in December is nearly double that of July and August, so I am guessing those are the colder months.

Sure, CB, that's right. The climate here is similar to what you might find in maybe coastal Virginia. Four distinct seasons, rainfall fairly evenly distributed, can be uncomfortably warm and humid in January particularly. Never snow in Buenos Aires (once per century) but can be bitingly cold a la San Francisco in July particularly. Right now it is late fall and today it was about 14 C but yesterday was 20 C. The night time temperature doesn't change all that much from the daytime temperature. Overall I give the climate a solid B. Best times to visit are thus spring and fall. Don't come in January cuz everyone including the hookers are on vacation. Me, I don't really like hot weather. You probably do if you think Australia has the perfect climate. I was there in Feb. and March and I thought it was fucking HOT. I prefer the winter here to the summer here. I lived in cold climates all my life in the US so if it is 5 degrees C here, about as cold as it normally gets, it doesn't bother me.

But really, if you can't speak Spanish, it wouldn't be worth the trip just for mongering. That is the honest truth and plus of course there are all the snakes. It is only moderately touristically interesting and if you have seen Europe even less so. If I lived in Australia and didn't speak Spanish, I wouldn't come here. English is much less widely spoken here than in say Barcelona. Plus the accent is so peculiar that it took me, a life long student of Spanish, about three days before I understood anyone. And, that was forearmed and forewarned about the differences by a native Argentinean friend.

And yeah, I've run into a lot more stinky pussies in the US than anywhere else. I remember one I took home from a bar and when I got it unwrapped i thought I had wandered into a carp farm. Here never, but I do run into some dog breath from time to time. I attribute that to a much higher percentage of smokers plus the lower social classes don't go to the dentist. I don't think flossing is too prevalent either. Socialized medicine here but not dental.

The best pussy in Buenos Aires tends to be Paraguayan in origin. Buenos Aires women have a bit of a superiority thing going. Women from the northern provinces such as Santiago del Estero, Salta, Misiones, and Tucumán are total fuck monsters.

Why don't you go to Perth and fuck RN?

DH, that VERY SAME ARTICLE was posted on this board quite a while back. I feel NOW as I did THEN: it's great to see an American Woman experiencing being on the short end of the stick in a foreign land when she has been so used to turning up her nose at well-meaning guys and/or crushing their egos for the sheer sport of it and to have a laugh with her pack at the poor's schmoe's expense. If they wanna be MEN by focusing ALL their drive on their career, so be it, but if they can't also have the ideal relationship that they demand (without wanting to meet a guy halfway) then they should shut the fuck up and bite the bullet and stay home on Saturday night with a hot Thai meal and the company of their maid...

I actually speak some Spanish since I took it in high school. The vacation package I was looking at included a month and half at the best hotel in Buenos Aires with roundtrip airfare, it looked cheaper than destinations in Europe. I figure I might get more "bang" for my buck. I also learned quite a bit of Deutsche in a *****house south of Dusseldorf. I was considering Argentina over Germany and the Czech Republic, my usual mongering favorites.

Oh hell for sure it is WAY cheaper here than in Europe. But a month and a half in a hotel? Why not rent an apartment? Much better. BTW what are they saying is the "best hotel in Buenos Aires?" But high school Spanish is unlikely to cut it because of what I said about the accent and vastly different grammar. Better than nothing, though, for sure.

And for a month and a half the length of the flight is of course a lot less relevant.

But we are far afield so PM me if you want more info. I have not been to the Czech Republic but I lived in Germany and it is so much better here that there is not even any comparison.

The skankest pussy that I have ever ran into was Swedish, and that was after she "freshened up"! It was shaved but apparently that didn't prevent it from smelling like rotting cod in the sweltering heat of summer. American pussy can be pretty raunchy too. Frankly, I think that they get a kick out of trying to make you eat their stinking snatches. Some of them will even be so bold as to tell you that you have to lick it before you stick it. Some guys do, and they end up with a bad yeast infestion in their oral cavity. Ever seen those guys with a white tongue and dragon's breath? Unhygienic pussy will do that shit to you.

I think that I am going to try some of that clean porteña pussy that Dickhead mentioned.

sorry , peeps... i forgot to post the reference to the article in # 2347

here it is =

[url]http://www.nomarriage.com/articleasia.html[/url]

that entire web site is worth reading if you've got an hour or so to kill

start here =

[url]http://www.nomarriage.com/[/url]


there's several good links given , too , one of which helps prove one of psyberzombie's laws , to wit :

[i]" free sex is the most expensive kind " [/i]

if you have a wife or girl·friend , or are in·to picking up 'amatuers' , here's a calculator to help you figure out exactly how much that 'free' sex is actually costing you =

[url]http://www.costofsex.com/[/url]

I have found no way to predict the clean ones from the unclean ones.

The "shankest" one I can remember was an Argentine girl. I was dating her; she was very meticulous about her appearance and everything else as most argentinas are, from a relatively wealthy family, etc...My entire apartment stank, believe me my mouth never came within 4 feet of it. On the other hand, Ive been with nasty *****s that I would expect to not be so clean but were fresh as a rose. I have seen no patterns travelling around the world either.

Hey fellas,

I was watching the news & they were talking about some woman who abandoned her children so she could run errands. As sad as that is, I wasn’t disturbed by her actions (although the fact that I have become so used to hearing about women abandoning their children for long periods of time should be disturbing). What did disturbed me was finding out that if a woman in SE Florida decides that she no longer wants to be a mother, she can drop off her infant at any fire station – no questions asked! Apparently, there are baby drop-offs set up at the fire stations to make it easier for women to leave their children.

Isn’t it amazing that for all of the rhetoric we hear about how MEN need to shoulder more of the burden of child rearing within the home, and child support outside of the home, our society has made it so easy for women to potentially discard every responsibility they have, no matter how basic?

One time I talked to an American woman who claimed that she didn't like superficial people who are obssesed with money. The obesession with money is one of the biggest problems with American women. She said she would rather do something she loved than do something that made her rich. I asked her if she saw two men, one in a suit, the other in a fast food uniform, which one would be more attractive. She said the one in the suit because the one in the fast food uniform is not ambitious enough. I asked her "What if the fast food worker liked what he did?" She totally contradicted herself, its this kind of bullshit I can't stand with American women.

I asked her if she saw two men, one in a suit, the other in a fast food uniform, which one would be more attractive. She said the one in the suit because the one in the fast food uniform is not ambitious enough.[/QUOTE]Funny you should use the fast food employee as an example because I have a friend whose family owns a couple of Burger Kings. He told me a story about when a nice looking woman came into his restaurant & he hit on her, but she blew him off because she could not bring herself to date a "burger-flipper".

He informed her that he was filling in for someone else who called in sick, & that he owned this & another BK restaurant in the area. She responded with this shocked look on her face, "Oh, you own these?!"

Well, once he corrected her misconception about his appearance she magically became interested - very interested. Ironically, my friend became disinterested, blew her off & returned to work. I was so proud of him (keep in mind though that he did have a girlfriend, which probably made blowing the witch off easier to swallow).

Oh, I almost forgot: American women suck!

I LOVE that story! I love it ESPECIALLY because of the fact that I always hear women spew bullshit about how fair they are when considering whether or not they will give a guy a chance/he time of day. If they didn't engage in this outlandish doublespeak, I wouldn't have any problem with their shallowness. It DOUBLY pisses me off when they get indignant after you expose them for the fork-tongued liars they are. I'm not employing a double standard here, 'cos yes, guys are shallow too. BUT we don't lie about it and EXPECT women to believe it hook, line and sinker...

I think this is a good idea. Much better than beating the baby to death. Baby battering is a widespread problem, as is dumping newborns in the nearest river. I support anything, however imperfect, that reduces such sad things.
Do you think you guys can go a week without attacking AW. You go on about them judging by appearances (no burger flippers please). Yet, most of the hits on this site entail looking at photos of women's genitals. In the age of uncertainty we live in, when old Freddy Flinstone type structures are vanishing (long term marriages etc), women will always choose the money and keep an option to walk. Wouldn't you?
If you cannot do the 12 steps to like AW, I suggest you read the wise words of Prokofiev, our wisest sage. Either that, or go to Haiti and do some voodoo magic on the AW you hate.
Your friend

Domino

About 5 years ago, I fell hard for this girl I briefly dated. She subsequently left me for this guy who was basically an unmotivated-living with his parents-partyboy-loser with a near room termperature IQ (and per popular rumor, a little dick). They became serious, and eventually got engaged, and married. At the time, I was quite distressed about the fact that the girl picked this useless lump of crap over me.

I now realize that in actuality, I was the winner of that little escapade. Five years later, I still have my freedom, and damn few financial obligations (It sure is fun to screw hot European chicks isn't it?). He however is saddled with a screaming infant, a world class mental b-tch of a ball and chain (I overlooked this at the time because at 22 she was hot and sexy) who isn't getting any better looking, and will, I am fairly certain, someday take him to the cleaners. In the meantime, they she already has him leveraged to the edge-I saw her driving around town in an SUV that had to cost a year of his income.

Regarding Domino's last post, I view this forum not so much as bashing American Women (as much as they may deserve it), but a support group (sorry to break "huggy touchy") for having the courage to go against the bull#hit bag of goods that American Society overwhelmingly tries to hang on us, much to our detriment.

Domino,

I agree that the baby drop-off sites are the lesser of two evils. My problem is not with the baby drop-offs as much as it is with our apathy toward negative female behavior.

For example, if a man argues with his wife, he needs anger management to properly deal with his emotional problems to ensure that he never behaves that way again. Will baby drop-offs help women deal with the problems which are causing them to discard their children?

We have a hard time telling women when they need to shape up. When a woman commits an abominable act, well, she’s suffering from post partum depression, PMS, battered wife syndrome, low self esteem, or some other psychological disorder which absolves her from her actions.

Remember the 2 ladies who drowned their kids? One lady lived in SC (Susan Smith) & there was another who drowned 5 kids in Tx. The women’s rights groups, along with the rest of the world, were so ready to support these murderers, never once referring to them as animals or demons.

Now, contrast those attitudes with the way the media demonized Scott Peterson. Now, I’m not defending Scott! I do wonder, however, if our society would have been so willing to entertain the notion that Scott may have been suffering from some psychological disorder?

Male executives who lie, cheat & steal are viewed negatively according to public opinion, whereas Martha Stewart is viewed as a victim (but only Martha, her male co-defendant was not viewed as a victim).

It just seems to me that our society is all too ready to correct men in an effort to eradicate the undesirable male behavior, while at the same time all too ready to explain & excuse undesirable female behavior.

As far as going a week without attacking AW, I doubt that you can expect that to occur in a forum dedicated to discussing AW any more than you could expect to go a week without discussing football in a forum dedicated to football. Besides, research says that men do not express themselves enough; so I say, MEN - EXPRESS YOURSELVES.

And Domino, I hope you continue to express yourself, too. It is good to consider differing opinions. Thanks for responding to my post.

-ILAS

P.S. American women suck - IMO

Well American women have the global media and Hollywood behind them, our rants are nothing compared to what is presented on the big web portals and tv screens around the planet. People around the world have this image that a typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie or Cindy Crawford. I used to live in New York, and most of the women I saw were nowhere near that level. In fact, a few times traveling around a small town in Northern Europe, I saw far more classic examples of beautiful women, many of whom were just normal working class women doing rather normal jobs( cashiers, cleaning ladies, bank tellers, etc.). American women are crap compared to what I have seen abroad, that is THE TRUTH, AND I AM GOING TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!

I bash American Women because they deserve some of the same medicine they feed US. American Women can get away with MUCH MORE than American Men can.

Examples: Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who engaged in sex with a SIXTH GRADER and only got seven(?) years in prison. If the situation were REVERSED and she were a MAN, and the sixth grader were a GIRL, the guy would have been buried so far UNDERNEATH the god-damn jail that his very existence would have been forgotten save for his family and prison officials.

Scott Petersen; guy murders wife (and in the process, his unborn child) and gets a free lethal injection, courtesy of the State. Abominable? Damn straight! Fair treatment for a convicted murderer? Hm... Susan Smith DROWNS ALL OF HER CHILDREN (not ADULTS, DEFENSELESS CHILDREN) and gets what, LIFE? That and some counseling?

These are but TWO shining examples of how we have all been hoodwinked and continue to do so. Give American Women a fair chance? They RUNNING THE GOD-DAMN SHOW!

If you wanted something from someone (very badly) and the only way you could get it on a regular basis was to jump through hoops and in the process, make a fool of yourself and eventually have an eroded sense of self-worth, would you continue to go through with it, or would you wise up and get it from someone who acted as if they had common sense and decency instead of constantly engaging in a power play to metaphorically SUBJUGATE you? To those of you who are of the masochistic way of thinking, so be it. It takes all kinds to make a world. I simply REFUSE to waste my time and effort on such insanity. I (grudgingly) admire DH and CBGB, 'cos they got fed up and too the step that I have yet to take. When the time comes, my path will be different from theirs (only slightly) but I will have made my declaration of rebellion.

linda lee smith has spent over 25 years in prison for the murder of her 2-year-old daughter, amy. although the parole board has declared her suitable for release six times since 1989, california’s state's governors have decreed otherwise. smith was convicted of second-degree murder in san luis obispo county in 1980 and sentenced to 15 years to life after she did not stop her boyfriend from fatally beating amy. whether smith participated in amy's abuse was hotly disputed at her trial. the prosecution argued that by not aggressively intervening, she condoned the violence; the defense argued that she got merciless beatings herself whenever she intervened.
in lake county, indiana, felicia gordon of gary, was charged with murder because she did not intervene after her boyfriend repeatedly hit, punched and kicked her son george, aged 7, to death in march 2005; her attorney, lemuel stigler, argued in vain that she stayed in another room during most of the incident because she was trying to protect her other son, a 1-year-old. arlene haines, of ulysses, pa., pleaded guilty to child endangerment because she didn't stop her boyfriend from fatally abusing her 2-year-old daughter, serena, in 2004. illinois prosecuted kathy cecil of wood river for the first-degree murder of her 2-year-old son, michael. she didn't participate in his fatal beating and had been repeatedly punched, choked and raped by her lover for months. cecil was sentenced to 35 years in jail.
.................
not all aw are on easy street. using trailer trash and celebrity examples are not the way to go. susan smith is not right in the head; scott petersen knew what he was doing and will be no great loss. all i can say is: read prokofiev.

There is a website solely dedicated to thrashing American women called americanwomensuck.com, its becoming a trend all over the web to use as a forum for telling what most American women are really like. I have been to places that have plenty of gorgeous women. One time in a brothel in Germany which was filled with about three dozen beautiful nude women, a customer asked me about American clubs, I told him no such clubs exist in the States, since prostitution is outright illegal in the US except in some parts of Nevada. I told him that escort services existed but would cost him ten times what he pays in Germany.

I live in Southern California, two hours away from Tijuana, Mexico where a lot of mongering takes place and what have you. I've been going down there frequently and not only to take care of business (if you know what I mean?? he.he.he.) but also to do some shopping and looking for alternatives to the tourist trap section of town while visiting there. I also buy a lot of health and natural foods-related products there for a fraction of the cost here in the U.S.
Anyway, I headed down there during this Memorial Day weekend, being careful to return on Sunday night in order to avoid the crazy traffic on holidays. After visiting the ZONA, I took a cab to the shopping center/mall called Plaza Rio Tijuana (I believe) and went about my shopping mission. Walking through the aisles of this one huge supermarket, I was able to talk to many of the young ladies who stand there giving information and answering questions if you had any. My first question to them (there were 4 in one spot) was if they earned commission, to which they replied in unison "NO". So this meant there was no intention on their part to sustain a conversation with you given that it made no difference to them whether you bought anything or not. So we engaged in small talk about the products I was buying but quickly and with no trouble moved into other, more interesting topics. I was able to get their phone numbers and emails without a problem. Given that it was Sunday afternoon and they had to work on Monday (no holiday in Mexico) they recommended I give them a call to go out on the following weekend instead.
Try doing that in sex prison. Nice, young, pretty and smart girls too. Just the conversation itself was worth feeling good about, the rest, let’s see what happens. The point I'm trying to make is that it is not the end of the world meeting a suitable lady oversees. This happened only a couple of miles (if that) from the border. It’s really amazing to run into a situation like this because, not being used to it or remotely even thinking about it ever occurring in sex prison, it gives one a sense of hope and opportunity: life exists outside of such confines.

domino:

i don’t understand why you feel the women in your examples should not have been punished. i was always under the presumption that if you were present during the commission of a crime, you are an accessory to the crime. hell, if you let someone in your home or car after he/she has committed a crime, you made be charged with aiding & abetting (whether you were a participant or not).

did any of these women bother to make a phone call to 911 when the men began beating their children? and why did these women stay with the men in the first place? the way your post reads gives me the impression that those relationships had a history of violence long before those children ended up dying. why did these women chose to stay in those relationships after the men exhibited violent behavior toward them?

you say susan smith is not right in the head. well, that is pretty obvious. i’d step out on a limb & say that any person, male or female, who can take another person’s life is not going to be right in the head.

and by saying that these women were not on easy street, you have just done the very thing that i complained about in my previous post by making excuses for aws. there are plenty of american men who are not on easy street, and for that matter there are plenty of people outside of the us who do not have a pot, nor a window. yet somehow everyone else seems capable of taking the bitter with the sweet, so why must we make special concessions for aws.

however, i do love to hear your opinions. isn’t free speech fun?! keep the posts coming guys.

-ilas

btw, american women suck!

Perhaps all hope is not lost guys. Earlier today I was watching MTV Hits at the higher end of the digital spectrum (a good way to stay current and vastly superior to regular MTV or even MTV2 in that only music videos are played 24-7, no reality TV crap or real world soap operas)

The beautiful Beyonce Knowles and her back-up singers Destiny's Child came on with their new music video, "Cater 2 U." I about fell out of my chair when I heard the lyrics. "I'm here to serve you?" What the fuck? How on earth did that lyric get through the NOW censors?

Could this be a new trend? Millions of American women respect and admire Beyonce. In the second verse, she makes the promise:

"When you come home late
Tap me on my shoulder, I’ll roll over"

My God, maybe there is hope for the future!

Sing it, Beyonce!

***********

Let me help you
Take off your shoes
Untie your shoe strings
Take off your cuff links
What you wanna eat boo?
Let me feed you
Let me run your bath water
Whatever you desire
I'll supply ya
Sing you a song
Turn the game on
I’ll brush your hair
Help you put your do-rag on
Want a foot rub
Want a manicure
Baby I’m yours
I wanna cater 2 u boy

Baby I’m happy your home
Let me hold you in my arms
I just want to take the stress away from you
Makin’ sure that I’m doing my part
Boy is there something you need me to do
If you want it, (I got it)
Say the word and (I will try it)
I know whatever I’m not full fillin’
another woman is willing
I’m gone fullfill you my body and spirit
I promise ya
I'll keep myself up
remain the same chick
you fell in love with
I'll keep it tight
I'll keep my figure right
I’ll keep my hair fixed
be rockin the hottest outfits
When you come home late
Tap me on my shoulder, I’ll roll over
Baby I heard you,
I’m here to serve you
this love you need
to give it is my joy
All I wanna do is cater to you boy

Besides probably there is other songs on her album boasting of how she dont need a man or about kicking em to the curb if they dont kiss her big booty. She seems to be pretty much a diva and doesnt seem to humble now. Maybe she'll do that stuff for Jay-Z or another mega rap star but for us mortals? Forget it!

I guess our differences here reflect other differences. I believe a woman of any nationality in an abused relationship is different from a calculated killer. Men often physically dominate women and I would pity any woman in such a relationship, as well as any kids that might be in the way of the man's wrath. I am not making excuses for them; I would imagine any mother killing her off spring would not "have a good day" but ymmv. Now Paris Hilton is on the news. You can keep her. I know many of you guys have been burned but, hey, shit happens. Rush Limbaugh is now on the radio:(

domino, do you really believe these women are not calculated killers?

with her 2 children sleeping in the back seat of the car, susan pushed the car into a lake where it bobbed for several minutes before sinking to the bottom, drowning her children. then to make matters worse, susan made up a story about some random black man coming along & carjacking her at gunpoint with her children in the back seat, gave the police a composite sketch of this alleged black man, pleaded on tv for the safe return of her children, & inspired a nationwide man-hunt for a person who did not exist regarding a crime that did not occur. if this isn’t a calculated killer, then what is? how are susan’s actions different from scott peterson’s? susan smith was single, divorced actually. there was mention that susan had had a boyfriend since her divorce, but he had broken up with her shortly before she committed the murders because he was not ready to be a father (or maybe the boyfriend just did not like susan anymore for other reasons & figured that he could get out of the relationship pain-free by saying i don’t want to be a daddy, not thinking that this chick would kill her kids to be with him). conclusion, susan does not have the abusive relationship excuse.

andrea yates of texas filled a bathtub with water, chased her 5 children around the house and, one by one, drowned them in the bathtub. if this isn’t a calculated killer, then what is? how are andrea’s actions different from scott peterson’s? she was married, but there was no mention of any abuse in her relationship. actually, she was portrayed as the quintessential soccer mom, and the day of the incident, andrea’s mother-in-law was due to come over to help with the children only an hour after andrea’s husband left to go to work. conclusion, andrea does not have the abusive relationship excuse.

like i explained in my earlier thread: my problem is not with the baby drop-offs as much as it is with our apathy toward negative female behavior… it just seems to me that our society is all too ready to correct men in an effort to eradicate the undesirable male behavior, while at the same time all too ready to explain & excuse undesirable female behavior (ilas post #2363). i find it funny that you refer to men as calculated killers, while women are merely not having a good day (domino post #2371). your statement fuels my argument regarding our society’s disregard for unacceptable – even criminal female behavior. i bet if you really tried, you could come up with a good explanation for louise woodward’s behavior. remember her, the british au pair working in massachusetts who killed the child she was watching in february 1997?

as far as the other women you used as examples, these women say that there was a history of abuse. whether these ladies’ stories concerning abuse are true, i don’t know. i do know that people will say anything & blame anyone if they believe it will save their own hide (ask anyone who has been through a divorce). but even if i were to give these ladies the benefit of the doubt, according to terry patton, the state's attorney in henry county, ill., "that's [domestic violence] not an excuse for standing by and letting someone beat your child to death,"! besides, each of these women had a trial of their peers, & their peers chose to reject their defense.
i know it sucks to be in a bad relationship, & most people (men & women) carry scars from those terrible experiences. i feel for every one of them, sincerely. however, we chose the relationships we are in. and just like any other circumstance we chose, when you are not pleased with your choice, chose again. you cannot let your previous choice be the crutch you use to justify every indefensible act you commit from then on. whether the act was abandoning the children, murdering the children, or standing by & watching someone else do the dirty work for them, these women have no excuse for what occurred, making them as calculating as adolph hitler, jeffrey dahmer, scott peterson, or any other man you could compare them to.

i’m having fun with this, aren’t you?

-ilas

and as you all know, american women suck!

Bringing Mr Hitler et al into it slants the argument somewhat. I have no problems with calculated killers, male or female, paying their tariff. I do not think the female cases we both brought up entirely fit that category. I guess I am on the wet side of the house which is fine by me. When I think of those women and what they have done, it just makes me sad. I do not regard them as calculated killers but as sad dysfunctionals in need of medical care.
Though I believe women get depressed and some of them do bad things, cops, crims and judges all tell me crime is largely a male preserve, just like violence.
I do not subscribe to the "choose" school of thought as one of the prosecutors you mention do. I believe the weak are easily led. I also believe many men use physical violence and the threat of physical violence to intimidate women and I believe the men in the cases I cited did.
Louise Woodward had her conviction reduced to involuntary manslaughter on appeal. She is a trained lawyer now but gave it up for dancing. I do not believe in hiring au pairs so yes I make mitigating circumstances.
I also believe it is personally damaging - though somewhat catharctic - for the regular posters here to ***** about the AW they have known. Usually when I am with women, I do the screwing. Guess the same goes for Mr Music to my ears, Comrade Prokofiev. With others, the mileage varies and thus this thread.

Yyou just used the “W” word – WEAK. I’m sure that AW would not appreciate being seen by you or our society as weak. Remember, this is the same gender that fought to be able to serve in combat in our US military (an issue that was revisited just a week or two ago). Women fought for decades to be seen as equal, opposing the notion that they are the weaker sex. Be careful, your sisters may turn on you for that one.

Now, there are more male convicted criminals in this country than female convicted criminals. The statistics show us that. The statistics also show us that there has been a steady increase in crimes committee by women, especially violent crimes. But that is not our point of contention. Our disagreement is in the fact that unacceptable male behavior is viewed abhorrently by society, whereas unacceptable female behavior is accepted by society.

You said, “Though I believe women get depressed and some of them do bad things, cops, crims and judges all tell me crime is largely a male preserve, just like violence” (Domino Post #2374). Now, I don’t think you are suggesting that we completely ignore female criminals until the statistics balance out, so the point of your statement must have been to justify women’s criminal behavior through depression. Domino, would you say that someone who commits suicide is depressed? Does it make it OK if a man kills his family, then commits suicide? Since he killed himself, he was obviously depressed. If the terrorists of 9/11 had a well documented history of depression, would that change your opinion of their suicide attack? Hitler committed suicide; he must have been depressed. I use Adolf Hitler not to slant the argument, but only to make the point that calculating is calculating, no matter who is committing the act.

Based on your theory, I should be able to excuse the August 2004 Soviet airline terrorist attack committed by the 2 women from Chechnya because they are weak, possibly dysfunctional, could be suffering from depression, or may have been involved with an overbearing husband/boyfriend (FYI, these two women were single & shared an apartment, so don’t try the post partum domestic abuse thingy with this one). Hey, does your theory also apply to lesbians; I’m sure there are some dysfunctional alternative relationships comprised of aggressive & overbearing lesbian lovers.

You believe that all women are inherently good, & if they behave badly, it is not their fault. Instead they are reacting to an unrelated experience which is manifesting in the woman’s behavior, no matter how outlandish the behavior. In other words, it isn’t Eve’s fault, the Devil made her do it!

Domino, there are evil women out there, just like there are evil men out there. So if it walks, swims, & quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a duck – even when the duck is an AW.

-ILAS

American women suck – I stand firm on that!

For further evidence that American women suck, live in a dream world, and have themselves way overrated, check out what this hag posted in the Argentinaprivate forum today. Note the capital M in "me." She wants $400 US just to meet for cocktails. In Buenos Aires! Next time do a little research, honey.

"Hi Gents!

I'm available for outcall in Bs. As. From June13 to July 1st . Sexy, intelligent, and sometimes naughty is the best way to describe myself.

A true gentleman that is generous and respects a woman is my ideal man. I specialize in repeat clients, if you see me you may get hooked, so be forewarned!

After a few moments with me, you'll realize that I'm very sensual, affectionate and completely down to earth. I cater exclusively to mature, professional gentlemen (40 years of age and older) who yearn for only the best and appreciate the finer things in life.

When you are ready for the ultimate in upscale, exclusive female companionship , just contact me .Please visit my site for more on Me.

[url]http://www.corporate-corner.com[/url]

Kisses,

Elizabeth"

Actual ad from a website "women seeking men"
Quote:
I am 21, working on a BA right now and work part time. Speak 3 languages fluently, dress stylist, 101 pounds- slim body, light brown eyes, long VERY dark hair with bangs, known to WOW places just by walking in. I'm confident because I feel confident and hold my weight. Picture will be sent only to serious inquiries: (YOU MUST SEND PHOTO AND PROOF OF IDENTITY AS WELL AS BIO/WILL BE KEPT EXTRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL-HOLD ME TO IT promise)
looking for:

Stylish/educated/wealthy/clean man
Who provides:
Allowance: 60k-90K
Gifts
Corvette (always had one till I severaly crashed mines last month)Black with Rims.
Manolos
Credit cards

Extremely sweet, baby face, with a voice, sensual, looking for my half :), you must be understanding, open minded, sexy, smart, outgoing and fun

and not cheap PLEASE
Unquote

You judge what she is.

I LOVE to see these ads. These dumb bitches are thinking that I'd pay serious coin just to be in their presence?? THIS is the American Woman at her most BRAZEN. The sad thing is that some guys FALL for this bullshit. I'm supposed to believe that her pussy (sex isn't even IMPLIED in some ads) is so magnificent that it could make me 18 again? Sadly, it is THIS attitude (too full of one's self) that is rampant in American Society where women are concerned. I understand that they are peddling a product, but they are no better than the conniving snake oil salesmen who promise all but deliver little if at all. I remember chatting with a friend (female) who basically said that she was worth AT LEAST a bottle of Cristal champagne (roughly $1600/bottle). I thought to myself: "Let's see, you're OVERWEIGHT, your face does NOT stand out in the crowd, and the clothes you wear show your large ass and your rolls"... I almost equated her to a used car salesman...

Gentlemen: Your latest posts concern common prostitutes, not American women per se. If A skank wants $400 to meet a moron for a few minutes, why criticize her? Remember there are no $400 skanks, only $400 mongers. Elizabeth's site sucks btw. Yet, I am sure she will get customers with her naked dogs and overall childish marketing angle.
Gentlemen: I wish you luck with your next American woman. Try home grown beef next time. You might learn to love it.

Homegrown beef on a platonic, friendly level and no bullshit games? Sure! On a romantic level where she is more experienced in said arena and will seek to get what she can while giving as little as is humanly possible while trying to drain me of my resources? Sorry, but I'm not a sucker. I'd rather have fire ants crawl into my shorts than to pledge my "undying love" to a woman who is ALWAYS seeking better pastures while I'm taking the leap to meet her more than halfway. And believe me, I HAVE had the unfortunate experience of fire ants crawling in my shorts! It's WAY more preferable than to be converted into a notch on an AW's lipstake case..... I'll PASS thank you

Fucking hilarious piece of satire about falling into the dreaded "Friend Zone."

[url]http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4122&n=3[/url]

Here is a typical 28 y o American woman's personals ad

Interestingly , the only things she says about herself is that she is lazy , bitchy , ugly , and does not like giving blow·jobs =

[i] " This is my ideal guy :

He has talent I can respect. Either he is a great artist or a musician with his own style or otherwise great at some craft. His talent doesn't follow the herd.

If he is not artistic than at least he enjoys the arts, music and books. If he has an interest in anything beyond mindless pop culture, video games and TV, that would be ideal. Not that any of that is too bad, but there is just so much more to life.

He has goals, not dreams. He strategizes on how he can realize his goals in light of whatever life has handed him as his fate.

He is an animal lover and has compassion for people.

He is financially solvent. He doesn't spend money he doesn't have and doesn't try to buy a woman's affection. He plans his livestyle to be uncomplicated and has common sense in regards to what is a wise investment or not.

He is not selfish and self-centered.

He likes his mom and female siblings and is nice to them.

He takes care of his emotional health as well as being conscious of his physical health.

He lives to travel and be spontaneous.

He is a one woman guy. He is not constantly searching for new ass. He's not an oral freak and wants to be with a girl who isn't into it either. He likes touching, kissing, giving and receiving massages. He knows where tha g-spot is.

He likes an independent lady who has her own interests, goals, and ideas and is supportive of her reaching them, as opposed to competing with her or taking no interest.

He wants to have a child. Not immediately, but he does see that in his future. He doesn't currently have any.

He's never been told by a girlfriend that he needs professional psychological help. If he has, he has gotten it and its been at least 5 years since he's gotten better.

He would rather do the right thing than try to get away with something.

He was not raised catholic.

He can cook and do his own laundry and doesn't expect his girlfriend to do it.

He believes in karma.

He listens to his inner voice and doesn't deny his real feelings. He can discuss issues and conflicts civily, even though a complete resolution may not come about.

He is not looking for a super model, but a real, normal person " [/i]

******************************************************

Dream on , Honey !!

Psyberhead: Interesting post. Can the board answer the following questions without sarcasm:
1. Does she want a dreamer (penniless musician, dope smoking Zen head; she seems to be big into this) or a worker bee? How great does one have to be to be a great musician. (If I played with Black Sabbath, would that do? How about Prokofiev?)
2. Is Samus Aran out? He is into video games but has lots of cash (not mentioned)., is into meditation etc. I don't know his policy on blow jobs but surely they could talk that through.
3. What kind of goals? Obviously getting into the Guinness Book of Records for fucking more ass than anyone else in history is out, but are these career or Zen goals?
4. What is the bottom line for wealth and do risky stocks and/or unethical cash flow sources count? Are Goodfellas in touch with their inner child out?
5. I like my mom but what if I have no female siblings? Do we have to like female siblings more than males? What if we are into wearing their clothes and watching Psycho?
6. Dickhead is a one woman cook able guy but he was raised Catholic. What percentage of US male adults were raised Catholic? What if one was raised a Satanist?
7. How important is it to be a human dildo? What if one does not believe in sex outside marriage?
8. What if the applicant can fool his shrinks into thinking he is not Freddy Krugar/Jason Voorhees?
9. What if he wants lots of children?

Interesting ad and lots of issues arising. She strikes me as a downwardly mobile, pseudo artistic, anal retentive type who is unsure of what she really wants. Not my type. More ads for objective analysis would help.

In some places around the world, about $50 will buy you a really good time with a dream type woman.

I've been there [the friend zone] before. Thanks for the link.

ILAS

The women placing those outrageous ads are seriously out of touch with reality. The one looking for a 60K-90K "allowance" obviously doesn't know that a man can get a nice house and excellent help for many years in Latin America for that kind of money.

American women need to wake up and face the harsh realities of globalization. Due to the high prices they place on their pussies they are facing the same faith as manufacturing jobs in the US. It is now cheaper to take a short trip on a long weekend to a foreign destination with better looking women who have nicer attitudes.

If you have to put out that kind of money for female companionship then you should not accept anything less than the best. Unfortunately, the domestic product can't compete with what is available overseas so increasingly consumers will vote with their dollars. That is the beauty of a free market economy in action.

I took a sociology class several years ago and learned about the "heirarchy of prostitution". The heirarchy goes rougly like this (no surprises) streetwalker, massage parlor type girl, call girl, "kept woman". The 60-90K girl was auditioning for a job as a "kept woman" who is basically a "piece on the side" for a wealthy, possibly married, possibly high profile executive or celebrity man (who may have a lifestyle that doesn't allow them to sneak off to BA. at least without bringing the wife along), who is "kept" in luxurious conditions. It does happen. Is that kind of money too much to pay for a vagina with an American Girl attached to it. ABSOLUTELY. However, from the perspective of a high profile wealthy guy what would you perfer-shelling out some cash, or a headline like "Major Fortune 500 Executive caught in call girl sting".

On another note, I happened today to meet a 50ish Russian Woman. WOW. I think that I could actually handle looking at that every day when I get to be 65 or so. The girls around where I live (the sticks), start looking dumpy around 28, or their illegitimate third baby, whichever comes first.

Pizza man/Skinhead: It is a bit of an overstatement to say I was raised Catholic. Originally I was baptized Protestant but my mother converted to Catholicism when I was four or five. My father was not Catholic. For a while they took turns and we would go to the Catholic church one week and the Protestant church the next. I did take my first communion which I refuse to capitalize and took maybe three years of catechism before getting thrown out for continually questioning the dogma. I believe I was eleven when I finally refused to go to church any more. I was never confirmed. I did sing in the choir for a while but got thrown out of that for hitting John Washalefsky over the head with a chair.

But I sure as hell don't need a women to cook for me or do my laundry. Shit down here I just drop my laundry off for 5.50 pesos a load, about two bucks, and I don't have to fold it. Women down here are amazed that I don't have a maid. One even asked me recently if my maid had any days available and I said, "What maid? I clean my own place. It is 40 square meters," and she was just amazed.

The men down here are such chauvinist pigs that just opening a car door for a woman or clearing the dishes off the table virtually guarantees animal sex afterwards.

1. OK, it look like Dickhead can apply to be a human dildo for this babe. Reading the ad, though, it looks advisable to bring rosary beads and an I love Oral Sex t shirt along to the first date.
2. I think one of the problems is a mismatch of expectations. The guys here all put the emphasis on money, power and goof looking women. The women want something less tangible.
3. I took a young Muslim babe out a few nights ago, doing my little bit for intenrational goodwill. She is liberated but from a very conservative Asian backwater. She too wants a gentle guy, someone in touch with his inner soul, who respects her etc. She got me.
4. I guess mutual distrust is also a bigger factor these days. There are certainly a lot of embittered folk out there. And not all that much demand for human dildos when all is said and done.
5. Why can't she stroke her own g spot anyway?

Women in general and with some exceptions cannot masturbate nearly as well as the average man can. This has important implications in that for one thing they waste a lot of time. Ever notice how women are always late? I often wonder if this is because they decided to masturbate but it took them too god damn long to get it done.

I was complaining about women in Argentina always being late to a friend of mine there. She mentioned how I was always raving about how beautiful Argentinian mujeras are. I agreed that I have been known to state that they are the most beautiful women in the world from time to time. She asked me "how do you think we get that way?"

My question is this, why here in sex prison are they late as well but show up wearing no makeup in a track suit? Could it be the masturbating?

Maybe they were jogging? No, wait, you said American women. Nevermind.

hearing held for notorious canada inmate by phil couvrette, associated press writer thu jun 2,10:56 am et

canada's most notorious female inmate, who has completed most of her 12-year prison sentence in the slayings of two teenagers, appeared thursday at a hearing where authorities will try to restrict her freedom once she is released.

karla homolka pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 1993 in the sex slayings of leslie mahaffy and kristen french and is set for release from a quebec prison july 5, although federal guidelines may allow her to be freed as early as june 23.

the appearance at the quebec superior court was the first in public for homolka, 35, since she went to prison. she was escorted into the courthouse in a police van, said benoit richard, a police officer in joliette, 50 miles north of montreal.

homolka got a reduced sentence by testifying against her ex-husband, paul bernardo, at his murder trial. he is serving a life sentence.

as part of the plea agreement, she was not charged in the death of her younger sister, 15-year-old tammy homolka, who died in 1990 after choking on her own vomit after she was drugged and raped by the couple.

canadian media labeled her plea bargain "the deal with the devil."

tim danson, the lawyer representing the mahaffy and french families, said he would ask the judge to block homolka from visiting parks, playgrounds or other areas frequented by children.

"my clients, more than anyone, appreciate how dangerous karla homolka is," danson told cbc-tv outside the courthouse. "karla homolka got away with murder. they recognize she represents a serious threat to the public and they want to do what they can to protect the lives of other canadians."

homolka's father, karel, told cp24 news channel that his daughter should face no restrictions once she's out of jail.

"this is canada, not russia, right?" he said from his home in st. catharines in southern ontario. when asked if his daughter had done her time, he responded: "she sure has, and then some."

ontario premier dalton mcguinty said tuesday that people were justifiably afraid of homolka and he would press authorities to impose as many restrictions as possible after her release.

"people are very concerned about what she might do again, and we have a responsibility to protect the public interest," mcguinty said. "this is something that has profoundly affected the psyche of ontarians."

the montreal gazette reported earlier this week that homolka has lost weight and dyed her blond hair black and cut it to shoulder length.

the newspaper also said she was "despised" by many inmates for her lack of remorse and for getting special treatment.

the ontario government will use section 810 of the criminal code, which only applies to individuals who may commit another offense or be a danger to the public, in arguing that her movements should be restricted. they also will seek a court order requiring her to submit a dna sample for a criminal database, said michael bryant, the province's attorney general.

bryant said officials fear she might commit new crimes.

"we are seeking a recognizance order, and will be making submissions to try and meet the test, which is that there's a reasonable likelihood that the person will commit another offense," he said.

bryant said he met recently with two of the couple's other [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] victims to get their input into what restrictions they would like to see imposed.

bryant wouldn't say if the province would — or could — consider new charges against homolka in connection with one of the victims, known as jane doe, who told the toronto sun this week that she wanted homolka to face trial for drugging, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] and almost killing her.

I had never heard of that case before, but I'm not surprised that the State (Canada) is trying to add on to her original sentence. In Florida, they want to pass restrictions on living within a certain distance of a school, park or daycar center if you've been convicted of a sexual crime against a minor. They are also considering legislation to allow life-long monitoring of convicted child molesters using the GPS ankle bracelet system (like the one Martha Stewart has). It looks like Canada is following suit.

Your usually an advocate of AW on this board. Was this last post to show that women of other countries do this kind of thing? Just seeking clarification.

I had just finished watching Jeopardy when a trailer for a new Heather Locklear (She’s so Hot!) movie was advertised. Locklear plays a middle aged mother who has not been able to find her perfect mate (I’m not sure if she’s divorced or never married). I gather the premise of the movie is that Locklear’s friends & daughter hunt around to find “Mr. Right” so that Locklear will not spend the rest of her life as a spinster. Guess what the title of the movie is: The Perfect Man.

Now, I’d love to find out how the perfect man is defined in this movie. Even more interesting will be how all of the almost certain numerous imperfect men will be portrayed. I’m sure some of the men in the movie will be a bit over the top (for example, I think I did see a gay bartender/waiter in the trailer) & I don’t know anything about Locklear’s character’s standard of living or personality, but I’m curious to find out how an ordinary decent guy will be depicted in this movie (if the movie decides to even show any ordinary folks).

Hopefully Roger Ebert will review this movie in the coming weeks because as curious as I am to find out, I don’t think I can bring myself to pay money to sit in a theater surrounded by a horde of desperate women relating to Locklear’s situation (if you know mean). Should any of you gentlemen happen to be dragged by your significant other to see the movie, please post a report on it.

-ILAS

American Women suck, still.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/austria_freezer_infants[/url]

The Canadian lady won't win many popularity polls. I wonder what future she has. I imagine the guy got her up to a lot of it, maybe a little like Myra Hindley in England. There women are on the extreme and I sincerely hope there are not many of them out there helping guys do bad things.
I hope this example might provoke some debate/insights. I think examples like Psyber's ad would help a lot in highlighting and discussing relevent issues here in a productive way.

The Austrian babies case is, again, sad.

The woman, whose name was not released because of Austrian privacy laws... -WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

Now that is interesting. In the US, an arrest is public domain & the authorities will relase your name immediately. Hell, they will release your name even if you are not considered a suspect (I like that one. You're not a suspect, but we just decided to investigate you & put you out in the limelight for shits & giggles.)

If you notice again and again in that article the writer is trying to absolve the woman. "Calls for more assitance from women in crisis pregnancies" When a woman does that immediatly after a pregnancy it's clear that she does so because she sees no other way out." I don't disagree with the conclusions but I don't think they are a valid excuse. Had a man taken the babies from her, killed them and stuffed them into a freezer it would be page one on the world press and the call would be for his immediate execution.

The justice system in the US is completely tipped in the favor of women compared to men it is just ridiculous. Not that the system in the UK or Australia is much better. I don't believe in marriage, and show most women the door after 90 days, its the best way I know to minimize my liabilities.

You're correct. When a woman does something wrong, everyone wants to try to understand how she could do something like this, but when it's a man, no one cares - just fry him.

That's interesting. Any reason why you chose 90 days? Just curious.

The tendency for people to rationalize heinous crimes committed by Western women is a reflection of the feminist grip on society. If one were to believe the propaganda in the media, there is an evil man behind every crime committed by a woman. The excuse that the Devil made me do it has now been replaced by the man made me do it.

It seems that only men are capable of criminal acts these days. If a woman murders her children it was most likely because she was depressed due to her husband/boyfriend abusing her or threatening to abandon her. Female criminals are victims who need understanding and male criminals are animals who must be severely punished.

I wonder how Lady Macbeth's behavior in the Shakespearean play "Macbeth" would be interpreted by those who are quick to excuse female deviants. The Greek play "Medea" by Euripides, shows exactly what women can be capable of. Perhaps, her husband Jason was to blame for Medea murdering their children as part of her revenge plot against him?

Medea:

"In vain, my children, have I brought you up,
Borne all the cares and pangs of motherhood,
And the sharp pains of childbirth undergone.
In you, alas, was treasured many a hope
Of loving sustentation in my age,
Of tender laying out when I was dead,
Such as all men might envy.
Those sweet thoughts are mine no more, for now bereft of you
I must wear out a drear and joyless life,
And you will nevermore your mother see,
Nor live as ye have done beneath her eye.
Alas, my sons, why do you gaze on me,
Why smile upon your mother that last smile?
Ah me! What shall I do? My purpose melts
Beneath the bright looks of my little ones.
I cannot do it. Farewell, my resolve,
I will bear off my children from this land.
Why should I seek to wring their father's heart,
When that same act will doubly wring my own?
I will not do it. Farewell, my resolve.
What has come o'er me? Shall I let my foes
Triumph, that I may let my friends go free?
I'll brace me to the deed. Base that I was
To let a thought of wickedness cross my soul.
Children, go home. Whoso accounts it wrong
To be attendant at my sacrifice,
Let him stand off; my purpose is unchanged.
Forego my resolutions, O my soul,
Force not the parent's hand to slay the child.
Their presence where we will go will gladden thee.
By the avengers that in Hades reign,
It never shall be said that I have left
My children for my foes to trample on.
It is decreed."

[quote=iloveanalsex]that's interesting. any reason why you chose 90 days? just curious.[/quote]

don't know how it is in australia, but in some jurisdictions in the u.s. a female doesn't have to be married to be entitled to 50% of a man's assets upon dissolution of the relationship; she only needs to have lived (and have been in a relationship) with the man for a certain time period (usually about a year). in states where this horrid law is observed the concept is known as a "common-law marriage" (some may even call it a "de facto" marriage). she doesn't need a ring on her finger to ass-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] you in court :(.

maybe that's what cbgb is trying to avoid.

Ahhh! So infanticide is not a trend nouveau, but women have engaged in this activity for centuries.

Well, I guess women feel that revenge is a right; therefore, women are blameless if they exercise that right & Medea follows closely to this premise.

It’s sad that a woman’s reaction (or overreaction) to rejection is seldom criticized. I recall the scene in the Terry McMillan movie, Waiting to Exhale, when Angela Bassett loads her husbands BMW with his possessions & sets the whole thing ablaze.

Now, Angela’s husband had just told her that he wanted a divorce (he was going to leave her for another woman, a co-worker I think); but I don’t think the theater would have erupted with applause if a man were to have set a bonfire after receiving a Dear John letter from his wife. Hell, everyone probably would have rationalized why the woman needed to leave the guy.

You know something, Maybe All Women Suck, but American Women Suck More

ILAS

Common Law Marriage, now that’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Do they really enforce that nowadays? I know any domestic relationship is a potential powder keg, but has anyone ever had their assets taken under common law?

I read a book about the Paul Bernardo-Karla Homolka murder case and although it has nothing to do with the topic at hand it is some really sick shit. Again it was the battered woman defense and it was all the man's fault and he got life and she gets out, even though she was recruiting the victims. So he beat her. So what? Pack your bags and get the fuck out.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger] The Greek play "Medea" by Euripides, shows exactly what women can be capable of. Perhaps, her husband Jason was to blame for Medea murdering their children as part of her revenge plot against him? [/QUOTE]
CM: Good to see I have a fellow thespian here. All of these cases here involve relationships/spouses squaring the score with their spouse by killing their issue. I believe these crimes are in a different class; the French, for example, have a defense of crime of passion to murder. I also believe most of the anger here from posters is becasue of the failure, for whatever reasons, of their relationships with AW.
As AW are mortal like us, they can created heaven as well as hell. But crime, by and large, remains a male preserve.

In certain European countries, the women are as independent and rabidly feminist as American women, Sweden, Denmark, and the UK are the three best examples, then there are countries that are still quite traditional, most of them are in the former Eastern bloc. The woman that most guys will want for a long term relationship or that dedicated lady will not come from a first world country. She will most likely be in Eastern Europe, Asia, or South America.

What the fuck does a monger want with a long term relationship anyway? I have now been seeing the same gal for a record breaking eight months. I've only ever dated three AWs for longer than that, ex-wife included. But the difference is I see her every five days or so (less often lately) and I never see her twice in a row without fucking at least one other woman in between. This is perfect. We have continuity; we know each other; we can have that whole caring/sharing thing. And, we don't get bored. However pretty soon I will still have to cut her. When I do, I will give her a big hug and wish her well.

Never fuck the same woman two nights in a row, I say.

Domino, I still do not understand your point of saying that crime is primarily a male preserve. Are you saying that we should ignore the preferential treatment of female criminals because there are fewer female criminals than male criminals?

When you compare the numbers, there are fewer children who shoot up schoolyards than there are women who commit murder, but when a school shooting occurs, people do not say, “ well, crime is largely an adult preserve.” Instead, the police investigate the circumstances & no one tries to explain away the child’s behavior. These kids are held solely responsible for their behavior (although they may question whether or not the parents were as involved with their kids as they could have been). In some cases, the State will even attempt to try the child as an adult, which places the child in more jeopardy than if he/she were tried as a minor. No one presumes that the kid was abused, & no one tries to get the child to implicate the parents in return for leniency. In the case of the DC snipers, an adult was with the child; yet the State of Maryland made a deal with Virginia to try the child’s case in Virginia where they could go after the death penalty for the minor (The US Supreme Court has just ruled that the death penalty is unconstitutional in cases involving minors).

I believe that minors are much more impressionable, easier to manipulate & less stable emotionally than adult women. So if children can be held to “Adult” standards with regard to criminal behavior, why must we always find a scapegoat when it comes to adult women & their behavior?

ILAS

American Women started it, so American Women suck the most!

What about that "I hate Mondays" chick who shot up the schoolyard? Boy was she ugly.

I have a very good AW friend whose sister has just been admitted to rehab. Drug rehab? Alcohol rehab? No. Shopping rehab. It seems she blew through a half million dollar inheritance in about four years, and is "depressed" and has "used shopping as an escape." Her husband is a minister (pussy whipped to begin with) and even he finally asked for a divorce due to lack of sex.

So now the mother, whose father's legacy this gal squandered on god knows what, has placed her in an expensive rehab facility where she is now getting intravenous magnesium and vitamin C (I am not kidding) and some other shit until they can "figure out what type of chemical imbalance led to this behavior." OK, fuck, I don't know; maybe it is potassium. You get my point. Definitely intravenous vitamin C, though.

This is not a wayward teenager but a 40 something (fat cow) woman with a graduate degree. May I now please be excused to vomit?

Oh god now plus I just looked at the America's Most Wanted website. Apparently a lot of hookers are getting whacked. But take a look at these poor, unfortunate, [b]dead[/b] alleged hookers. Who in the hell would pay to fuck them? De mortuis nil nisi bonum notwithstanding.

This really concerns me.

[url]http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=442[/url]
[url]http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/bernardo/10.html?sect=5[/url]

Above are the whacked cuties and the strange and scary XXX of the Canadian killers. Going around whacking hookers or getting into the sick shit the Canadians did stems from something and is aggravated by surroundings and lack of personal control. The Canadian babe wrote her parents asking them to forgive her for whacking her sister. She wrote from the State Pen.
Not all women are angels and not all kids are either. There is a cautionary tale in the Canadians: "everything" in moderation only.
I personally think your arguments are flawed. Why do kids shoot up schools and not somewhere else? There is a mitigating reason, as there is with women killing spouses and children. These people are, thankfuly, marginal to society and to crime, which remains a largley male preserve from armed robberies, muggings, pimping etc. Not to play the old soldier but I know right wing, street smart, ass kicking cops and they agree a lot of these women and children are beaten before they are born.
Also, as regards Dickhead's addiction to hired holes, many guys here are just passing through until they meet the AW of their dreams.

I neither want nor expect agreement on this as our views on crime and punishment differ. However, I feel the diagreement might shine light for all of us; it does for me.

I actually like I don't like Mondays as that song was out in 1979, a year I spent mostly in the most perfect pussies I have ever known.

how are a lot of these women beaten before they are born?

fact - in today’s society we have more women attending & graduating from university than men.

fact - in today’s society women earn more money than men (now you have to pay attention to this fact. for example, you cannot compare the average male physician’s salary to the average salary of a female housekeeper working in the hospitality industry. but when you compare the average female starting salary to the average male starting salary within the same industry, women earn more than men. it is when women leave the workforce to raise children that they lose ground to their male peers, as well as their female peers who did not leave to have children. this explains why women want to put off having children until later & later, which unfortunately does not coincide with their biological clock).

fact - in today’s society women have more political influence than men. politicians are constantly courting the urban career woman & the suburban soccer mom.

so i do not understand how women are behind the power curve compared to men.

mitigating factors are irrelevant; there is a mitigating factor behind every action, criminal or legal, male or female. so i do not understand how mitigating factors invalidate my “women vs. children” argument. the point of my comparison between women & children is how society holds minors accountable for their criminal behavior, not readily willing to explain it away like it does for women.

in your earlier post, you referred to women as being mentally, physically & emotionally weaker than men, therefore requiring special consideration with regard to their behavior, even when the behavior is murder. my point is that minor children are obviously the weakest segment of our society (well, maybe not when compared to the mentally handicapped), yet society is quick to prosecute minor children as adults, holding the minors to adult behavioral standards.

so if the weakest segment of our society is expected to behave like adults, why must we sympathize with adult women when they fail to behave likewise? i’m sure no one expects more from minor children than from grown women, but i do not want to be presumptuous. it is possible that you believe that a 12 year old minor is physically, mentally & emotionally more mature than an adult woman, & therefore should be held to a higher standard.

ilas

american women suck, until proven otherwise.

Dickhead to answer your question, not everyone wants to remain alone for life. Sometimes you do find someone in the crowd that you are especially attracted to in a more intimate way. Anyway I find that the local women in Australia serve their purpose as short term entertainment quite well. Not all Australian women are sex machines, there are some that are quite homely, but then again there is a substantial supply of the beach volleyball types too.

There are disadvantaged sections of society, like the poor and minorities but rich women hardly fit into that. I looked at the dead hookers from the story Dickhead alerted us to and I wondered what the life story of those former lot lizards was. I then read up on some notorious female criminals from the same site - though none of them seems to have been as depraved as the Canadian babe.
Most of us, I hope do not want to meet these dangerous outliers. Instead, we prefer ordinary, cuddly, beefy, stocky, lovable American women. God bless them and their healthy appetites!

In some countries, some of the best looking women are "outliers" in the societies in which they live. I can think of several European countries, the women from the minority groups are almost always the best women in those societies.

domino probably looked at those dead hookers and got a woody. i just flew back from uruguay to argentina and the aws were acting [b]so[/b] fucking stupid. one fat slob had lost her entry form she got in uruguay and so at the montevideo airport i nicely offered to go with her to the immigration desk to translate for her. she looked at me suspiciously like i was a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126][CodeWord126][/url] and declined. later i heard her on her cell phone calling her mom in the us (this woman was in her late 20s) and asking her what she should do. still later i ran into her at the immigration desk, where she was attempting to communicate with the non-english speaking immigration officer by speaking [b]really loudly[/b] in english while holding up everyone else in the line.

then on the plane there was a whole group of students from dartmouth, an ivy league college for christ's sake. the two women in the group's entire speech was like you know i like um you know totally like um wow like thought uruguay was so like, um, really um like i don't know ... like different.

then there was the woman who, while also speaking in really loud english to the guy at the snack bar, got extremely huffy when she found out she could pay in dollars (with a $20 bill for a $2 item) but would get her change in uruguayan pesos, instead of being grateful for the option to pay in a foreign currency. this gal was just a biscuit or two shy of three bills. she was literally dragging her pussy of a husband by the arm over to the snack bar to "talk some sense" into the snack bar guy. she asked me if i was american and i said in spanish that i was from bulgaria.

oh yeah and all the female united airlines flight attendants were fat and ugly and did not speak spanish while most of the male flight attendants were trim and did speak spanish (and were totally gay). one of the female flight attendants looked like she had been dumped out of a vacuum cleaner bag.

anyway good luck with these hags. i'm sure you will need it.

[quote=Iloveanalsex]Common Law Marriage, now that’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Do they really enforce that nowadays? I know any domestic relationship is a potential powder keg, but has anyone ever had their assets taken under common law?[/quote]

Plenty of horror stories in California, one of the states where is is actually enforced.

Dickhead: Your last post should be edited. There is no excuse for bumping off aging hookers; they are people and should rip. The same goes for the naive kid bumped off in Aruba. The Ivy League kids are just that, naive all [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and wind kids, going out to see the world, talking in the vernacular and not about Proust or whatever you imagine they should talk about. We all have met the ugly Americans abroad but the ones you mention were probalby just scared of the foreigners, as many Americans are and, being unused to foreigners, speak loudly, in English and thereby compound stereotypes.

American Armed Forces Radio run ads like that, telling their listeners that speaking loudly doesn't help and that they should learn the native language. Interestingly, in the military outposts of the American Empire, in places like Japan, they construct little Americas on base, complete with shopping malls, soccer moms, picket fences and PTAs. Very many of the housewives never venture off base and end up having to see shrinks. But I am kind to them as I am a nice, loving and caring monger. I take care of AW. And so should you. They need our love.

Now, gentlemen, to get fully back on track. Do not blame American women. Blame the system that instigates and perpetuates the problems, both real and imagined.

Bad Girls Go Wild
A rise in girl-on-girl violence is making headlines nationwide and prompting scientists to ask why.

Wounded: Jennifer Clayton, 14, was beaten by three girls as she walked home from school

By Julie Scelfo
Newsweek June 13 issue - When police arrived on the scene of a fatal stabbing last week in Brooklyn, N.Y., they were stunned by what they saw. The victim, an 11-year-old girl, lay crumpled on the floor, the front of her "Dora the Explorer" T shirt bloodied. The weapon, a steak knife, was in the kitchen sink. And the perpetrator, visibly upset and clinging to her mother, police say, was a little girl in a ponytail, only 9 years old. A few days later, she stood in white socks and shiny black dress shoes before a judge, listening as her lawyer entered a plea of not guilty.

The tragic event, which took place after the girls came to blows over a pink rubber ball, was a sad reminder that children can possess the same brutal instincts as adults. But for experts on youth crime, the killing was another instance of what they view as a burgeoning national crisis: the significant rise in violent behavior among girls. According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, the number of girls 10 to 17 arrested for aggravated assault has doubled over the last 20 years. The number of boys arrested for weapons possession rose 22 percent between 1983 and 2003, while the number of girls increased by a whopping 125 percent. Today, one in three juveniles arrested for violent crimes is female. "Girls are not what people think they are," says Dr. Howard Spivak, director of Tufts University Center for Children and coauthor of a new book, "Sugar and Spice and No Longer Nice: How We Can Stop Girls' Violence." "The change in girls' behavior is overwhelming."

A quick look at recent headlines is overwhelming indeed. On April 20, a 17-year-old from Lexington, Mass., allegedly slashed open the neck and face of another girl with a bottle of Twisted Tea. The next day, three teenage girls in Ayden, N.C., were charged with first-degree murder for participating in a drive-by shooting that left a 10-year-old boy dead. On May 3, a 17-year-old from Chicago was stabbed in her left breast and right armpit; a 16-year-old female classmate has been charged. And the teen daughter of former "Law & Order" star Dianne Wiest was recently arrested in Manhattan with two girlfriends for allegedly roughing up a male classmate and stealing his iPod. A court hearing is scheduled.

Schoolyards, where boy bullies once reigned supreme, are increasingly arenas for skirmishes between girls. "There are actually more physical girl fights now than between boys," says Bill Bond, a former school principal in Paducah, Ky., who travels the country studying safety issues for the National Association of Secondary School Principals. "I was just on a Cheyenne reservation yesterday and the principal said he had had one fight this year between boys and six between girls." Jennifer Clayton, 14, was beaten up in May by three other girls as she walked home from her school in Guelph, Ont. "I could hear them saying, 'Punch her in the face'," she told the local newspaper.

Jennifer Orangio, the 18-year-old slashing victim in Massachusetts, says that when she came upon her boyfriend hanging out with an ex in the school parking lot, the heat of her own reaction took her by surprise. Orangio went up to the other girl, Jamie Pelletier, and pushed her. Pelletier "threatened to smash a bottle over my head ... I was, like, 'Go ahead, do it!' And she did it." Pelletier, 17, now faces felony charges of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (to which she pleaded not guilty). She declined to comment.

Part of this spike in violence is related to evolving sex roles. Historically, boys have received messages from the culture that connect masculinity with physical aggression, while girls received opposite messages, encouraging passivity and restraint. Now girls are barraged with images of "sheroes"—think Sydney Bristow on ABC's "Alias" or Uma Thurman's the Bride in "Kill Bill: Vol. 2"—giving them a wider range of role models and tacit permission to alter their behavior. Accordingly, says Spivak, some girls have "shifted from internalizing anger to striking out."

The women's movement, which explicitly encourages women to assert themselves like men, has unintentionally opened the door to girls' violent behavior. "I was at a JV lacrosse game, watching my granddaughter. We cheered like hell because she was being aggressive on the field," says Joan Jacobs Brumberg, professor of history, human development and gender studies at Cornell. "I don't want to blame women's liberation for violence among girls," cautions Brumberg, but "traditional femininity and passivity are no longer valued in young females." James Garbarino, professor of human development at Cornell, puts it more bluntly. "We rely on boys to get out there and block a football, go in the Army and defend the country, carry guns and be cops. One of the side effects is that some boys take [physical aggression] too far." Now that girls have the same opportunities, he says, they can encounter the same blurry boundaries.

Research suggests that the best predictor of violent behavior, however—for girls and for boys—is not hours logged playing videogames or competitive pressure, but firsthand exposure to violent behavior. And social scientists warn that the number of children who see guns, fights and other kinds of physical abuse on a day-to-day basis is on the rise. "Violence in girls, like violence in boys, is really rooted in the individual and the individual's situation. I don't think you can blame the culture entirely for this phenomenon," says Brumberg.

After Ella Speight's 17-year-old daughter was attacked by a 16-year-old classmate last month, she spent hours in the hospital, tending to her child. Speight says she isn't angry: she prays for the assailant and even embraced the girl's mother when they met in court. "My heart hurts for her family," says Speight. "I know her mother didn't send her out to do that." Sugar and spice and everything nice: maybe Speight's forgiving nature represents an ideal that even boys can aim for.

With William Lee Adams

© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.

Chocha Monger: Very good post. I will have to masticate on it. I think posts like that are much better and informative for all of us than just shooting off about what bittches AW are. I am sure there is a class dimension to all of this.
It as not like that in my day, dear;)

'Vice ring madam', 80, arrested
Police say a woman arrested on suspicion of running a prostitution ring in the US state of New Jersey may have a unique distinction. At 80 years old, they say, Vera Tursi could be the world's oldest operator in the world's oldest profession. New Jersey authorities say Mrs Tursi has admitted running prostitutes through the "August Playmates" agency.

Mrs Tursi, who is reported to use an inhaler and a walking frame, was arrested as part of a vice crackdown. Police raided several illegal prostitution rings masquerading as legal escort agencies.

'Sounded old'

Officers said they began to suspect her advanced age when they spoke to her on the phone during the undercover operation. She could be heard catching her breath and used old-fashioned language, they said.

"She used the word 'dear', as in, 'That's all-inclusive, dear'," reported the New Jersey Star-Ledger.

"You get a feel for how old someone is when you talk to them," State Police Detective Sergeant Thomas Cornely told the Newark newspaper. "She sounded like an 80-year-old woman."

She is thought to be the oldest suspect in a US prostitution case - though a 78-year-old woman was called "America's oldest madam" after court case in the early 1980s.

Police say Mrs Tursi ran the business from her two-bedroom flat. She reportedly admitted taking over the business from her daughter, who died a few years ago, to supplement her retirement income. She is alleged to have skimmed off $60 (£33) from every $160 (£88) clients were charged for an hour with a call girl.

Mrs Tursi faces up to five years in prison if she is found guilty - but police say because of her age, health and clean record, she would be more likely to be given probation.

Story from BBC NEWS:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4612401.stm[/url]

Amazing post Chocha Monger - thanks for sharing.

I, for one, welcome the day when the US female population will be comprised of nothing but "sheroes." We will need aggressive women to serve in the Army to protect our borders and fight our wars after President Hillary orders the chemical castration of the US male population.

Don't worry - you won't feel a thing.

Outstanding post Chocha.

It amazes me that so many people today cannot fathom the idea that women, especially the women of the last couple of generations, are in fact violent creatures. I'm 35 & over the course of my life the worst fights I've ever been in were with women.

It's good see a respected news organization dispelling some of the gender myths we have running around. This could be the beggining of progress.

Here’s an interesting article from Reuters. A Russian diplomat believes that Russian women are most beautiful in the world. I've not been to Russia so I cannot comment on their women, but I’m sure everyone says that the women of their home country are the best around. I’d like to be able to develop an unbiased way to really determine which country had the best women - looks & personality.

Anyway, here is the link if you want to see the article in its original form, however, I have posted the article below in its entirety: [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050606/od_nm/russia_marriage_dc;_ylt=AhP17b6iujipTizaBRgaRCWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2YnFncG91BHNlYwNvZA--[/url]

----------------------------------------------------

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russians who marry foreigners could be exiled and stripped of their citizenship under a bill being drafted by a group of members of parliament, a deputy said Sunday.

One of the bill's authors, Duma deputy Nikolai Kuryanovich, a member of the ultra-nationalist LDPR party, admitted parliament was unlikely to approve the measures but insisted they were necessary. "Our women, the most beautiful and best in the world, are going abroad. By doing this, they are wasting the most valuable thing we have -- the gene pool of our nation," Kuryanovich told Ekho Moskvy radio.

But while condemning women for going abroad, he also said he did not want people bringing foreign spouses to Russia either.

Newly-weds would be forced to go and live in the country where their spouses were from, Kuryanovich said, to protect Russia from "an invasion of alien elements."
"Adapting to life in Russia ... foreigners impose their own rules, which are unacceptable to us," he said.

Since the fall of Communism, the numbers of Russians marrying foreigners has increased significantly and a poll cited in respected magazine Ogonyok last year said one in three 17 to 25-year-old girls wanted to marry a foreigner and live abroad.
The LDPR party's leader, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, is known as a maverick who enjoys stirring up controversy and has traded punches with fellow deputies during parliamentary sittings.

The Dartmouth College ladies were just acting like typical affluent suburban brats. I had the opportunity to see a group of German women and American women side by side at a nightclub in Australia. Carefully observing both groups of women, there were stark differences in the behavior, demeanor, and appearance of both groups. The Germans were far more attractive(the German ladies were slim, and fashionably dressed while the American women seemed hefty and dressed in a gaudy manner, the Germans held better composure, and seemed a lot friendlier than the American ladies, it was like comparing a fleet of S-Class Mercedes Benzes to some noisy Chevy's.

An arcticle from The Sunday Times:

Women have it both ways
Rod Liddle



Women, it seems, are far too tired to sleep with us these days. They are also too tired to do paid work and that unpaid domestic servitude we males glibly pass off as “housework”. Women, in short, are completely whacked.



They could do with sitting down on the sofa with their legs up and a nice cup of tea.

Two reports out last week show just how exhausted women have become: they do not, at first sight, seem to be linked — but when you think about it for a bit, the connection is pretty obvious.

The first and most startling came in the magazine Mother & Baby (to which journal, as you might imagine, I am a subscriber). This was the place where we discovered that women who have young children are too bushed for sexual intercourse, even that sadly familiar form of congress that lasts only a nanosecond. The report also came up with this statistic: about 77% of women who have recently had babies say they are “unable to work effectively” because they are up all night breast-feeding.

This is interesting for two reasons. First, most women who have babies and continue working (after their fairly long, mandatory maternity leave) tend to do so on a part-time basis, to the frequent chagrin of their bosses. But they’re still exhausted.

Second, while we might empathise with their insuperable weariness, should we not also spare a thought for the curmudgeonly bosses, especially those of small firms, who have complained endlessly about women staff with very small children working on a part-time basis and are usually designated antediluvian chauvinists when they dare to do so? Here we have it from the horses’ mouths, so to speak: the vast majority of women with very small children are, by their own admissions, useless at their jobs. They are “ineffective”. This is not sexism in the workplace, it is down to the sexism of biology: women lactate and men don’t.

The second report cropped up in The Economist. Here we were told the excellent news that women have made startling inroads into three previously male strongholds — law, medicine and the church. More than half of those now called to the bar are women.

Further, more women than men are entering the medical profession (and have been for 10 years or so). Once again, they are doing so on a part-time basis and hence are not receiving quite as much pay as their male counterparts. More than half of all female GPs

work part-time. Ring them at two in the morning with the DTs and you’ll take second place to the baby. The fact that women don’t earn as much as men is seen as a “bad” thing.


So too is the fact that far more women than men work part-time. Yet the individuals and organisations that agitated — bravely and correctly — for maternity leave and the introduction of flexitime, job sharing and term-time working practices (all of which have massive take-up among women and negligible take-up among men) now bemoan the fact that women seem ghettoised in less remunerative part-time work. There is a whiff of having one’s cake and eating it here.

If you enact legislation that makes it easy for one sex not to go to work, without much in the way of penalty, they are likely to take it up. That’s human nature, male or female. However, little such legislation or cultural latitude applies to men. We chaps get two weeks of paternity leave, like it or lump it — and only if we can attest that we are the real fathers (which, at The Spectator magazine, is a perennial problem).

Similarly, we have recently discovered, in The Journal of Human Resources, that the greatest redistribution of wealth since the sale of council houses has been the transfer of vast sums of cash to divorced women. These days, when courts pass judgment in divorce cases, they have in mind the proto-feminist notion that the woman who “sacrifices” her career in order to support her husband has made a 50% economic contribution to the household, regardless of the fact that “progressive” legislation has made it likely that many of them are pursuing their own careers.

Likewise, in custody cases, the mother needs to be a rancid, drug-addled termagant to lose control of her children: this part of the legal system accepts, beyond all doubt, that a child’s place is with his or her mother. In this regard, men are never equal and the mindset of our family courts is yet another moral and economic disincentive to women to compete on an equal footing in the job market. Why bother working when divorce will net you a fortune? Why shun your young child and go off to work when the courts insist that you are their natural care-giver? And the law is probably right, both in divorce and custody cases. But you cannot have it both ways. At the moment, one part of our judicial system and our culture insists that women, effectively, should stay at home and look after the kids. While another — the employment tribunals, the Equal Pay Act — insists that women should be paid the same as men and given the same working opportunities. Woe betide any employer who dares to cavil when the woman goes part-time and turns up to work half wrecked two days a week.

Call it post-feminist male bleating, but this is a dichotomy. Whichever way you look at it: it simply does not add up.

Oregon Researcher Finds Young Women More Likely to Engage in Interpersonal Aggression than Men

By Brian Carnell

Tuesday, March 15, 2005

Research involving domestic violence has suggested that men and women tend to be equally likely to engage in acts of violence, though due to size and other differences women are more likely to sustain a serious injury from such violence. Deborah Capaldi, a researcher at the Oregon Social Learning Center wanted to study interpersonal violence in a controlled setting and was surprised by the results -- young women in her study were four times more likely to initiate physical aggression such as slapping, poking and kicking.

Capaldi brought young couples in to her lab and gave them problem-solving exercises they had to work together to solve. Capaldi then recorded their behavior and analyzed who initiated physical aggression. She found that women aged 18 years old were four times more likely to initiate aggression than men. This effect gradually went away with age, until 26 when women initiated aggression only slightly more often then men.

Capaldi told The Register-Guard (Oregon),


Who were the primary initiators of such slaps, pokes and kicks? The women. . . . Women engage in aggression and we're not doing them any favors by denying they have any part in it.

According to The Register-Guard, Capaldi was surprised at some of the acts of physical aggression they observed in a laboratory setting,


Capaldi said she and her colleagues expect some verbal arguments but were surprised by the extent of slaps, pokes and kicks as partners discussed such assigned topics as planning a party, where to go on a date, or how to deal with such issues as jealousy and lack of money.

If hit or poked, the men and women were about equally as likely to respond in kind. None of the physical aggression was severe, which researchers would have halted, Capaldi said.

Capaldi's research is scheduled for publication in the Journal of Family Violence.

Finally, The Register-Guard interviewed for its story Margo Schaefer, who runs Womenspace which is a domestic violence shelter. Schaefer told The Register-Guard that there is a difference between men and women when it comes to violence,


The most common cause of injury for women between the ages of 15 and 44 is domestic violence -- you don't see that for men.

The claim that domestic violence is the number one cause of injury for women or some subset of women is one of those myths that simply won't go away. In fact, the number one cause of injury for both men and women are accidental falls. Domestic violence doesn't occupy the second spot either, with that being claimed by automobile accidents. In fact, only about 1 percent of women's injury-related visits to the emergency rooms appear related to assault by a male intimate.

It doesn't benefit anyone to either downplay or exaggerate the extent of domestic violence as Ms. Schaefer and other domestic violence advocates routinely do.

Source:

Fingering the aggressor. Jeff Wright, The Register-Guard, January 29, 2005.

The term "pussy whipped" can have many connotations but in the USA it increasingly means American women literally whipping men's asses. While women are more likely to be injured in their physical engagements with men, it seems that they are much more likely to have a hankering for a good old brawl. With the size of women increasing steadily, in the future men will probably sustain more injuries as a result of these domestic combat engagements.

It is no secret that men in professions that require the bearing of arms such as law enforcement officers and military personnel often take their blows without retaliation from their loving wives; fighting back can mean the end of their career when the little lady accuses them of beating her. American women know how much leverage domestic violence charges can have against men in a divorce and they are not shy when it comes to using it. It's good to see that research is beginning to shed some light on the dynamics behind the scenes. However, men still face the "wife beater" stereotype in the family courts.

For years women have been kept out of ground combat in the military. Maybe, it's time for the government to reconsider this position. US women are now beefier with greater body mass than previous generations. They are even more aggressive than the average hen-pecked male. The Iraqi prison scandal showed that our women are more than capable at subjugating and breaking male insurgents on a leash. Perhaps we'll actually have a chance of ending that war if we put more women in uniform and send them over there. In no time the other side will be begging for a truce!

The American Amazon may just be the key to protecting this wonderful land. Then we American men can travel the world mongering secure in the knowledge that our women are out there making it a safer place. ;)

Marriage is a waste of time, end of story.

Hey fellas,

Check out this story. This poor guy didn’t even get to fuck the ***** & has to shell out $1,500/month. Is this a great country or what? Here’s the link if you want to read the article at the website: [url]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05140/507736.stm[/url]

Sperm donor fights order to support 2 children

Friday, May 20, 2005

By Barbara White Stack, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court is weighing a case with the potential to strike fear in the hearts of sperm donors who thought they were getting $50 for their genetic material and nothing more -- certainly no responsibility for babies created with it.
The justices heard arguments this week in a case that forces them to weigh the right of children to financial aid from two parents against the right of men to provide sperm for in-vitro fertilization without the donors being held responsible for any offspring.

"There is a lot of fear surrounding this court case because if the court extends this beyond support, to rights and obligations, then I think it will create a serious chilling effect," said Lawrence Kalikow, a Bucks County lawyer who is an expert in surrogacy, sperm and egg donation cases.

The genesis of the case is a decade-old deal between ex-lovers, Joel L. McKiernan, now of Mt. Lebanon, and Ivonne V. Ferguson, now of New York. He agreed to provide sperm for babies she wanted and she agreed to absolve him of responsibility for their progeny.

Through in-vitro fertilization, she bore twins and raised them alone for five years. Then she sued McKiernan for child support in Dauphin County.

The Common Pleas Court judge there acknowledged that the couple had a binding verbal contract that released McKiernan from the normal responsibilities of fathers. But he decided the contract was invalid because the two had wrongly bargained away rights of the twins, particularly their right to child support from two parents.
Then the court ordered McKiernan to pay $1,500 in support a month. He appealed. Last July Superior Court said the lower court judge was right. That's what got McKiernan before the Supreme Court this week.

There Justice Ronald D. Castille asked Elizabeth A. Hoffman, the Harrisburg lawyer representing Ferguson, whether the court's invalidating the verbal contract between Ferguson and McKiernan would make it difficult for infertile couples to obtain sperm donors.

Hoffman's argument was that anonymous donors to sperm banks wouldn't be affected because their contracts are with the banks, not with the potential mothers.
And she stressed that only cases involving single mothers are relevant because in Pennsylvania children born to married women are assumed to be those of the husband. In those cases, then, the children have two parents to provide support.
At this point, sperm donation centers don't seem to be in panic. One of the largest in the country, Cryobank of California, mentions the Pennsylvania decision on its Web site but assures its donors they're unaffected. California has a law protecting donors from support actions. Pennsylvania does not.

A supervisor at Cryobiology Inc. of Columbus, which has a sperm collection center in Pittsburgh, was unaware of the case as was the executive director of the Reproductive Science Institute with three offices outside Philadelphia.

Both Donna Ridder of Cryobiology and June Amarant of Reproductive Science said they thought their contracts would protect donors.

The lawyer representing McKiernan wasn't so sure. Attorney John W. Purcell Jr., of Harrisburg, said that if a judge decided that a contract between mother and father was invalid because it denied children their rights, it could nullify a contract between a man and a sperm center denying children rights.

And such anonymous donors are traceable. Banks ordered by courts to find and identify donors have the means to do it.

Donors should have some concern, said Erie lawyer Joe Martone, who is handling a case that is the reverse -- an egg donor seeking custody rights to triplets she didn't bear and has never supported.

The vast majority of cases in which children are conceived from donated eggs or sperm work out happily ever after, Martone said.

But if the Supreme Court upholds the lower courts' decisions in this case, Martone said, it's possible that single parents who conceived with donated genetic material will demand the names of the donors and seek support.

He and attorney Kalikow agreed the problem would be resolved if Pennsylvania passes legislation -- as at least a dozen other states have -- regulating sperm and egg donation.

Although this is a Pennsylvania case, it could have repercussions elsewhere, Purcell said. If a bank in California ships sperm to the doctor of a single woman in Pittsburgh, it is conceivable that the Pennsylvania-born child would be covered by the Pennsylvania decision, he said. Or, he said, it's possible a child would be covered if the mother moved to Pennsylvania to deliver.

If the court rules that McKiernan must continue to pay, he said, that could chill donation everywhere.

And that, Kalikow said, would hurt infertile couples. "If donors don't want to donate, then intended parents have that option foreclosed."

Both he and Percell said there is an example in Pennsylvania law that would enable the Supreme Court to release sperm donors of obligations to be the second parent to children born to single mothers.

In cases of abused or neglected children, it is fairly common now for courts to terminate the rights of both parents then permit one person, usually an unmarried or widowed foster parent, to adopt. That action leaves the child without two parents to support him.

(Barbara White Stack can be reached at 412-263-1878.)

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Marriage is a waste of time, end of story.[/QUOTE]

CBGB,

I know that you have a 90 day limit when it comes to relationships with women. I myself have found that I need some personal time after 180 days of contact, if the woman in question is from the US or Western Europe my survival time falls to 180 minutes. If I can take care of business in less time then I'm out of there.

However, does your view on marriage include Latin America and Asia?

Let me comment on marriage in Latin America. In México, getting formally married is a huge big deal and in my experience very important to the woman. In Argentina, people often say they are married when they are merely living together, and even if they do get legally married, often when they separate they do not bother to get legally divorced. Formal marriage and divorce are viewed by many as a waste of money that could otherwise be spent on soccer or movie tickets, or wine, or a good steak.

In Bolivia they have trial marriage. They live together for one year and at the end of the year if the [b]man[/b] is not satisfied with the arrangement, he can cut her loose even if she is pregnant or they already have a child. The woman has no such option. No, I do not think this is right. If they decide to stay together there is a second ceremony where all the townspeople gather and throw rocks at them, the idea being that if they can endure being stoned they can endure marriage. NO, not that kind of "being stoned" you leftover 60s acid casualty burn out.

Anyway, my overall point is that you cannot generalize about marriage over a region comprising many countries and two continents. It is specific to the norms of more localized societies.

BTW my current favorite prostitute here in Argentina is married (she is from Paraguay and he is from Argentina) and she says he knows what she does and does not care. He often waits in a local coffee shop while I fuck his wife. A year or two ago this would have bothered me but now it does not.

Ferdinand of Aragón and Isabella of Castille married at their parents' behest to unite Spain and proceeded to cheat on each other from day one so if a person [b]were[/b] to generalize one could say that model has been very popular in the former Spanish colonies for a very long time.

ILAS,

An American woman couldn't afford to purchase my leche for in vitro fertilization because she'd have to pay an amount equal to the cost of raising any potential offspring to adulthood per individual sperm. What kind of moron sells off his leche for a paltry $50 anyway? That is barely a tank of gasoline these days. A man's love [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in this country is a WMFD (Weapon of Mass Financial Destruction). It should be handled with great care under the most stringent security measures. Giving your leche to American women is the equivalent of letting the terrorist have nukes because they promised not to use them against us.

I have had solicitations for the donation of my precious leche. The woman involved was willing to have a lawyer of my choice draft up an agreement absolving me of any liability concerning the use of the material. Needless to say, I passed on the offer. I'd rather squander my leche in squalid foreign locales while facing the dangers of death and disease. As far as I'm concerned the risks pale in comparison to what I would face back home in the good old USA.

I guess some women are genetically adverse to sex... would explain things.

[url]http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20050607-1127-orgasm-genes.html[/url]

By Emma Ross
ASSOCIATED PRESS

11:27 a.m. June 7, 2005

LONDON – A woman's ability to have an orgasm is at least partly determined by her genes and can't be blamed entirely on cultural influences, new research suggests.

Experts say that's likely to be interpreted as both good and bad news.

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"It'll be upsetting because some women will think, 'Oh my God, maybe I just can't.' On the other hand it takes away a kind of guilt or pressure," said Dr. Virginia Sadock, director of the human sexuality program at New York University Medical Center.

Either way, specialists say the findings don't mean women who inherit an unfortunate gene package are doomed. They just mean that more work, or patience, is required.

The main benefit of discovering the genetic elements of sexual function, experts say, is to help scientists find better treatments for sexual problems. The study was reported this week in Biology Letters, a journal of the Royal Society, Britain's independent academy of science.

In the study, scientists from St. Thomas' Hospital in London sent questionnaires to 4,037 women who are part of the British twin registry. About half of them were identical twins and half were non-identical twins.

One in three of the women reported never or hardly ever reaching orgasm during intercourse and 21 percent said they hardly, if ever, achieve climax during masturbation. Those figures are consistent with other surveys conducted over the last few decades.

However, the questionnaires revealed a significant genetic influence on the ability to reach orgasm, said lead researcher Tim Spector, a genetic epidemiologist at St. Thomas' Hospital.

The similarity in orgasm experience was greater in identical twins than it was in non-identical twins, Spector said. Because the only difference between the two groups was genetic, the researchers concluded that the gap between the groups was the genetic component.

After taking into account other factors that could influence orgasm, the scientists estimated that 34 percent of the difficulty women face in reaching orgasm during intercourse is due to genes.

Problems in sexual response during masturbation seemed to be more genetically influenced than orgasm ability during intercourse. The study found that 45 percent of the difficulty women have in climaxing during masturbation can be attributed to genetic makeup.

The results were similar to those of a study on Australian twins published earlier this year.

The idea that orgasm ability has a genetic component makes sense, said female orgasm expert Laura Berman, a professor at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill.

"A lot of the women that I treat will tell me that when they talk to their siblings or mothers they very often have similar challenges," said Berman, who was not involved with the study. "One could make the case that it's nurture, not nature because these twins were brought up together, but you can't rule out the genetic argument."

But Spector said effects of the twins' shared environmental influences did not alter the study results significantly.

Even if women do inherit an unfavorable genetic mix, as with many other conditions, it does not mean they are doomed, experts said. Many approaches can help most women enhance their ability to achieve orgasm.

"Factors influencing the ability to (reach) orgasm vary from woman to woman. What we do know is that psychologically women are more complex sexually," Sadock said. "For women, being in a relationship where they feel loved and feel secure, is a big factor. Other big factors are how they feel about themselves and about sex and what their first experiences were."

"Maybe there are some women ... who can never. That is a possibility, but that would be a small amount," Sadock said.

And even if they can't, that doesn't mean there's no joy for them in sex, Berman added. A survey she recently conducted found that among women enjoying satisfying sex lives, orgasm did not rate as a key element for fulfillment.

You’re correct, $50.00 is not much money at all, but in the case of the Pennsylvania guy, I don’t think money had anything to do with it. The guy seems pretty well off (not many people pay $1500/month child support for 2 kids).

I envision a scenario where this single girl wanted to have kids, knew the guy already but wasn’t involved with him (hence the in-vitro fertilization), and asked the guy for his sperm. The guy probably said yes figuring that he’d be doing a nice thing for this lady, especially since he already knew her. I’m sure many sperm, egg, blood, or any other type of donor feels that they are performing a humanitarian act when they give of themselves.

The sad part is that she turned on him years later & sued him in court for child support. This wasn’t a guy who fucked her then ran off. She was impregnated through in-vitro fertilization!

I thought the dumbest case I’d ever heard before was when the lady sued McDonald’s after she placed the coffee between her legs & drove off, spilling the coffee & burning herself. I was wrong; this case takes the cake. Cases like these perpetuate the notion that American Women do not have to take responsibility for any of their actions. What’s next, adoptive mothers suing biological parents for child support?

Choca Monger, I know you don’t donate sperm in the first place, neither do I, but unfortunately, genuine people everywhere will probably stop donating anything anymore for fear that they may be liable in the future should the donor become dissatisfied with the donation.

I once went out with an Eastern European girl, and we got into an argument on vacation, because she wanted me not to spend too much on her. I wanted to stay at a nicer hotel, and she chided me that I should save the money and stay someplace cheaper. You will hear the exact opposite from an American woman, most of them would argue with me for not spending more money on her.

ILAS,

In America the fastest way to get your ass sued is through good intentions. I agree with you that this poor sap thought that he was helping that poor single unattractive AW and that she would be forever grateful to him for donating his gunk. Well he helped her alright, he helped her right into his bank account for the next decade and a half at least.

What I don't understand is the grounds for her dissatisfaction with his donation. The product functioned exactly as intended. She used it of her own free will to produce children which cost a lot of money to maintain. What did she think having kids was about? I don't find it amazing either that she sued for child support a few years later just as the cute baby phase came to an end. I guess if you donate a car you can be sued for the cost of the fuel, oil and tires needed to keep it running.

I actually met a guy several years ago who entered into one of those deals with a single AW who was rapidly approaching 40 yrs of age. In other words she was well into old maid country. Anyway, he never poked her; he just donated his sperm. There should have been several warning signs for him. She insisted on using his sperm instead of an anonymous donor; she wanted any resulting kids to know their father. Well, after she finally got pregnant she played on this guy's emotions and got him go to her prenatal appointments to see the kid on sonogram. The next thing you know he was there for the birth too because he had good intentions and couldn't leave a single woman to go through that on her own. Eventually she would leave the baby to spend time with him, and so he progressed slowly from donor to father. Once he was attached to the kid she started disrupting his relationships with other women. I don't know how it all finally ended but his "son's mother" was gaining more and more control over his life with each passing day. It was always interesting to see this guy in his early 20's explaining his relationship with this older woman to hot young chicks.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that single women who chose a "friend" to be a sperm donor sometimes do so because they secretly want more with that particular person, or they expect help financial or otherwise. They really don't want a donor, they want a father.

In general, while American women love kids, big houses in the suburbs and SUVs more often than not they expect a man to pay for it all.

If your sperm helps to make a baby, you should support that baby. Sure, some women want stringless babies and will trick a sucker into filling her belly. But child support in those cases is the price to be paid. I have known far too many prostitutes in Thailand and other cess pits who have been abandoned by the men who impregnated them, leaving them to literally hold the baby. I think you guys have two major issues:
1. you reduce everything to your control of your checkbook which is selfish and not very romantic.
2. you do not appreciate the good points many AW have and, having been burnt, you dare not sip from the chalice of love again.

Domino:

Please define romance for us neanderthals.

After reading the bizzare war he was having on the Thai board I've come to this conclusion. He needs to be ignored. He will take a contrarian position no matter what's posted. If AW are so great why is he all about the Thai board. This will be the last post I respond to anything He has to say.

I wish there was a way to mute people so I couldn't even see their posts. If there is and I don't know about it somebody please enlighten me.

ILAS, I used to feel the same way as you did about the McDonalds/Coffee thing until I talked to a friend that studied that case in law school. Seems there was a shitload of people involved as it was a class action thing and a lot of people actually lost their genitalia due to a defective cup and coffee that was hot enough to actually burn through skin.

As far as the guy that got sued for child support. Only in America when it is an AW with her hand out. We as a people are incapable of forcing THEM to be responsible for THEIR decisions. Somebody always has to bail them out when they are over their heads due to their own failure to anticipate the results of their decisions. I'm still reeling about the guys here in Texas that the courts will not release from their child support orders even AFTER dna proves them to not be the Fathers. Seems AWs can even lie about fucking around and still make a man pay.

DR: Here is the McD coffee case.details [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1287038/posts[/url]
The problem with this thread is you can only see with one eye. I have always been polite here but you refuse to even contemplate that there might be another side and so you lump all AW in together.. That, my friend, is very much your problem and not mine. Think about it: you just want posts here to confirm your own prejudices. I personally found the contrary cases others posted to be of interest. The rest I find irritatingly boring.

Hardbarg and other wanna be modern men: Women are looking for something else, not someone with a checkbook though that is important. They want someone to uplift them, weep them off their feet. As they get older, they want someone to gently lift them, to sing their way into their hearts.
It is interesting to compare this thread to the Japan_Nampa thread where the emphasis in on seducing one's way into their panties. The Japanese women they are nampa_ing are, by American standards, very repressed.

Anyway, that new thread is coming along nicely.

Domino must have his balls in a vise to write the shit he has been writing lately. I liked Skinless much better. But for sure this idiot that Choca Monger is writing about had his balls in one. Imagine: all the duties of fatherhood without ever any pussy.

After leaving the US, I now have all the pussy I want without any duties whatsoever, and it is highly affordable as well.

dickhead

after attacking my spanish, what shit are you talking about? i do not think it serves anyone's interests to constantly attack a group of people, aw in this case. if guys here want a 12 step recovery program ok but opinions are like nipples, everyone has one or more.
on the specific subject of being pussy whipped: one guy on the indonesian board seems set for that and another on the thai board allows his hooker gf to confirep001e his phone, camera and more. i couldn't even make up shit like that. but shit like that interests me and also serves as a red flag.
the new thai thread, which is proving popular (more popular than that shit in the phil section anyway) is not serious. it is a joke, a waste of bandwidth like so much more but a joke like so much more.
now i will go back to my new sandbox and wish you all the best of luck in this one.

Domino:

I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from trying to insult me ("a wanna be modern man"), especially in the same post where you claim you "have always been polite here".

Now please describe the woman's contribution in this romantic world you envision.

One of our fellow mongers is locked up till the end of the year thanks to a charge brought up by his ex wife. Maybe he missed his child support payment, pissed her off somehow, or didnt do her bidding fast enough. She's a real sawed off ***** on the reel, I know firsthand. Anyways He has no credit cards or bank account since she gets all his dough for the 10yo.

Another dude used to work as a security guard in my building and his babys mother cut through one day to get to the next street. She had a few words with him and he ended up quitting after his shift as he was gonna get his check garnished. He was working 2 or 3 jobs anyhow to keep up.

[QUOTE=hardbarg]Domino: Please define romance for us neanderthals.[/QUOTE]
You call yourself a neanderthal. so I call you a wanna be modern man, ie a neanderthal trying to come into the modern world. Sorry this offends you. The trick with women is to listen to them, to show you care, or at least to pretend. Now, my sandbox awaits.
Good luck gentlemen and may all your Christmases be white.

Answer the question.

Check this out:

A technique for recovery of eggs from the ovary is described below. It uses a sonographically-guided needle to replace the surgical procedure which previously was used to recover oocytes (eggs). This procedure, called Transvaginal Oocyte Retrieval, requires neither hospitalization nor general anesthesia.

In order to prepare a proper environment in the woman and to increase the chances of recovering several healthy and mature eggs, the woman will undergo about two weeks of intensive preparation. This will include hormonal therapy with "fertility drugs." Blood tests and ultrasound scans of the ovaries are used to determine the optimal time to retrieve the eggs from the ovary. This optimal time is just before ovulation when the oocytes are almost ready for fertilization.

At the proper time, an outpatient procedure under local anesthesia will allow the female's eggs to be visualized by ultrasound and retrieved from the ovary by placing a needle through the vaginal wall. The mild discomfort that the patient feels has been described as similar to a Pap smear or endometrial biopsy. After a short rest, the patient will be able to go home and resume normal activities.

The fluid from the follicles is examined under the microscope by the embryologist, who locates the eggs and keeps them in the laboratory under physiologic conditions. The embryologist will place the sperm with the eggs when they are ready for fertilization. Usually, the eggs will develop into cleaving pre-embryos, whose cells divide 2 or 3 times to become preimplantation embryos (pre-embryos). They are maintained in laboratory dishes, in a nutrient mixture which acts as a substitute for the environment that would otherwise have been provided by the fallopian tubes.
Using a special catheter, the couple's pre-embryos will be passed through the vagina and into the uterus at the time the pre-embryos would normally have reached the uterus (2+ days after retrieval).

After the pre-embryo placement in the uterus, the patient will lie quietly in a bed for about an hour, and then will return home.

Here’s the link to the original website if you want to check it out for yourself: [url]http://www.ivf.com/ivffaq.html[/url]

Now Domino, how can you compare a prostitute in Thailand who has been impregnated & abandoned by her trick to an AW who goes through the process of in-vitro fertilization? We are talking about a woman, an American Woman mind you, that sought out the services of a fertility clinic so that she could become impregnated, not a woman who picked up a guy at a bar & had unprotected sex. Obviously, any single woman who employs a third party fertility specialist & endures this process does so with the intention of raising the baby alone. No one here is arguing against child support, but for this single woman to then sue this guy who was doing this woman a favor is just plain WRONG. What next, single or recently divorced women will decide to sue the biological parents for children they adopted?

Domino, I know you believe that AW can do no wrong, but there is no way you can justify this type of behavior, nor can you disagree that this behavior perpetuates the attitude that women should not be responsible for their decisions. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that you will try to, & I eagerly await your defense my friend.

Maybe we should outlaw in-vitro fertilization for single women; now that would go over well with the feminist movement! In the Old Testament, a woman is not allowed to enter an agreement with anyone without validation from her father or her husband (unless she is a widow). If she does, it may be canceled by her father / husband. Maybe the old Hebrews had it right, but I bet this idea wouldn’t go over well with the feminist movement either.

Chocha Monger is correct. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, & lined with AW.

ILAS

American Women Suck – and they know it.

Daddy Rulz & Domino:

I did not know the details of the McDonald’s case. All I knew was that a woman spilled coffee in her lap (Hell, I do that all the time)

I looked at the posted McD. link, & now my opinion has changed regarding that case. Thank you guys for enlightening me.

See Domino, I can admit when I’m wrong & change my opinion.

ILAS

American Women Suck – I have not changed my opinion on that.

I owe you 1/4 of a BBBJ from the provider of your choice. I just discovered the freaking ignore list. It's so cool! Now whenever the pizza guy posts it say "this post hidden" I love it! Is there also a hidden spell check I don't know about?

So now we can get back to the serious business of telling the world why AW suck, instead of responding to the horseshit of a 16 year old hunched over his keyboard hoping his Mom doesn't walk in and see "*************" at the top of the page. Break out the Brahmas!

A very famous pornographer once said its better to visit a prostitute for sex than get married to an American woman, he mentioned its a lot cheaper and less stressful. I totally agree, anyone considering marrying an American woman or who considers her desirable knowing that there is a world of alternatives available outside the US is a fool. Still around the world, in places where the average lady is gorgeous, some idiots still think AWs are appealing, the reason? They watch TV and see movies, so they think the typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie.

CBGB,

If you want to discuss all the baggage that AW carry, and the sh*t that the typical AM puts up with vice our brethren overseas, more power to you.

Sadly, in my experience, fugly women, and men for that matter, exist everywhere. It is not a geographical problem. It is the gene pool.

You want fair haired? Try Finland. Dark and dusky? Try S. America or Uzbekistan.

Attitude, Sir. Attitude and cultural programming are the real difference IMHO.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Here's the link:
[url]http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/state/11715725.htm[/url]
Posted on Mon, May. 23, 2005

State high court set to weigh gay parents' post-split rights

By Howard Mintz

KNIGHT RIDDER

It would seem to be the most ordinary of family court conflicts -- two people in love who decide to have a child, split and then find themselves at war over parental power.

But mix into that equation the difficulty of applying long-standing family laws to same-sex relationships and artificial reproductive technologies, and the result is California's latest legal standoff over gay rights.

With the parental rights of thousands of same-sex couples at stake, the state Supreme Court on Tuesday will consider three custody and child support cases involving lesbian partners who agreed to bear children through sperm and egg donors and then later broke up. The cases give the justices another opportunity to shed light on how they will deal with the civil rights of gay couples as a legal challenge over a state ban on same-sex marriage bears down on the court's docket.

Even with the state's new domestic partnership law establishing firmer rights for gay couples and recent court rulings allowing second-parent adoptions, the Supreme Court's ruling is expected to be crucial for many same-sex couples with children.

"You are going to have people that don't register as domestic partners, just as you have people who don't get married," said San Francisco lawyer Jill Hersh, who represents a Marin County woman seeking to gain parental rights in a case against her former partner. "That's as old as the ages."

The three cases present very different factual scenarios that force the Supreme Court to balance the rights of biological mothers against partners who can stake a claim to parent status because of their bond with the children.

Medical advances further muddy the waters on the traditional definition of parent. For instance, two women can become mothers of a child by one partner donating eggs to the other. By using a surrogate mother and artificial insemination, two men can become parents together.

The appeals courts have been divided on how to proceed, but the Los Angeles-based Second District issued an unprecedented ruling last year finding that a nonbirth mother in a same-sex relationship could have equal parenting rights.

In that case, Lisa Ann is arguing she should have parenting rights equal to those of Kristine Renee, who bore a child through artificial insemination during their 10-year relationship. In the Marin County case, K.M., who donated her eggs to her lesbian partner, E.G., argues that she should be legally recognized as a parent, despite signing a routine form that relinquished her parenting rights when she provided the eggs. The couple raised twin girls together for more than five years before splitting in 2002.

The third case pits Emily B., an El Dorado County woman who bore twins through artificial insemination, against her former partner, Elisa Maria B., who left her partner when the children were 2 years old. Emily, who is backed in the case by Attorney General Bill Lockyer, is seeking child support payments from Elisa, who she argues was committed to raising a family before leaving and is now the equivalent of a deadbeat dad.

"Deadbeat parents are not exclusive to heterosexuals," Emily said in an interview last week.

Since the split with Elisa, Emily has been unable to spend time with Elisa's son, whom she helped parent during their relationship. Emily said she sides with the nonbiological parents in the other two cases who are seeking equal parenting rights.

"Both of them are parents," she said. "They held themselves out to be a family unit. I know what it's like to lose a child."

Elisa's lawyers could not be reached for comment. But in court papers, they argue that there is no basis in current law to force a nonbiological partner in a same-sex relationship to support a child if he or she hadn't adopted the child.

As with the child support issue, the Supreme Court must take laws that have been crafted for heterosexual couples and figure out how they apply to same-sex relationships and the evolving world of sperm and egg donors. For example, under current law, a man is the presumed father if he "receives the child into his home and openly holds the child out as his natural child."

The justices will rule on whether that provision applies to a birth mother's lesbian partner.

In the Los Angeles case, Kristine argues that she has as much right to terminate her partner's role in raising her child as a mother who breaks up with a long-term boyfriend who was not the biological father of her child. Liberty Counsel, a conservative religious organization, has sided with the arguments of biological mothers like Kristine, urging the Supreme Court to reject the arguments of same-sex partners who don't adopt.

But in court papers, lawyers for Lisa Ann say Kristine's position deprives their child, Lauren, of a true parent because Lisa Ann had been identified as a co-parent on everything from birth announcements to financial matters. "This is Lauren's case," Lisa Ann urged the court. "Lauren has two mothers."

K.M., the Marin County woman who donated her eggs to her former partner, E.G., shares the same view as Lisa Ann, although K.M. stakes an additional claim that she has a biological link to their twin daughters. E.G. was infertile, so K.M. donated the eggs and the twins were conceived through artificial insemination.

In a 2003 interview, K.M. told the San Jose Mercury News: "We always knew we would be parenting together. Never, ever, ever would I have dreamed that something like this was possible."

But E.G. argues that it was clear that she would be the sole parent of any child born from the donated eggs. Diana Richmond, E.G.'s attorney, said the subsequent relationship between the women doesn't outweigh the birth mother's right to control custody of her children.

"I think all three cases present parallel issues that give the court a good opportunity to make a consistent standard," Richmond said. "It's going to be a much clearer and familiar atmosphere for same-sex parents to establish parentage, however the court decides these issues."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it was easier when the stork delivered babies.

-ILAS

Walking down a street in a Southern European country, and seeing all the gorgeous women walking around, some locals were curious about the US, New York in particular. I told them the best New York women weren't equal to the the middle 50th of what I saw in this sun drenched town in Spain.

CBGB,

I appreciate that this is generalizing, but IMHO the actual percentages of good looking to poor lookers is about the same worldwide, depending of course on your personal likes and dislikes.

You might like Dyevs, but there are some really ugly slavic women. You might like Italians, but I have seen plenty of honkers there as well.

As for "Spanish women" they run the gamut from dark, dusky gypsy types, to lily white, blonde, blue eyed Galicians, and everything in-between.

I will grant you that if you have spent your whole life looking at Cinnabon-enhanced fat assed American princess´ the ladies in Europe or elsewhere might just turn your head.

I still maintain that the attitudes are what really distinguish non-AW.

Cheers,

Sporadic

One good thing about American woman is that they come in all nationalities and colors. The average AW that we all hate on isn't blonde and blue eyed and talks in a gum chewing valley girl accent. I have seen china dolls and little miss Moscows that opened their mouth and start talking in braying superior tones and you know they have been indoctrinated/acclimated to the AW way of things. As a man you just get turned off real quickly. Niceness, female grace, and class are lacking here and in abundance outside US borders.

Now with that being said some issues come to mind. Foreign chicks are very appealing as they retain that class and dignity that AW's don't know anything about since the MTV era portrays it as not cool. Cursing, celebrityism, and materialism are the main values here. On the streets of NYC chicks learn quick to not smile and be as unfeminine as possible. The ***** shield is in full effect. As a man you dont exist here often. There has been times when I got looks that would freeze my blood just for tilting my head. One guy I know from Albania remarked on woman being so unwomanly here and made the observation that "all the woman here think men want to bang them and hate us for it".

Attitude and culture are important factors in a woman's behavior. American and British women tend to be materialistic, status climbing, and superficial. Australian women are different(even though their culture is similar to America/Great Britain), most are down to earth and outgoing, they want to know what type of person you are rather than what you do for a living. A lot of women in different countries vary in their attitude. There are plenty of Asian women who are as obsessed with money and status as Americans and British. I live in New York, which has a large Asian population, mostly Korean and Chinese, and most of the Asian women of Korean and Chinese origin I knew always went after money(Thai and SE Asians were a lot different from their Northern counterparts). Someone I knew from Turkey said the same of beautiful Turkish women, they go after money. The biggest bit*ch I ever met actually came from Hong Kong, an Indian woman whose parents lived in HK, she immigrated to the US and became an American citizen, she was one of the most shallow people I ever met. German women, coming from a country that makes $100,000 cars, tend to be the least materialistic of all European women, which is kind of ironic considering Germany's affluence.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur](Thai and SE Asians were a lot different from their Northern counterparts)[/QUOTE]

In Thailand and SE Asia there is a TON of emphasis on money -- this is one of the flaws of your analysis, and it's why I agree with Sporadic that it's absolutely attitude that counts most. And money given to them equates to increased face and to social status, so the idea that women there somehow not about social climbing while Americans and Brits are is hooey. Yes, Thai and SE Asian women there will absolutely turn your head with attention, pampering, total focus on your needs, etc., but saying they're not interested in/focused on your money is beyond ridiculous -- everything there is all about support of the family, with family being defined as anyone even loosely related, and to keep the affection coming the money has to keep flowing (and I'm not talking just about P4P scenarios.) "Love" and the slaving attention to your needs that blows western guys away and makes them lose their heads is very directly connected to monetary support, and a lack of money winding to the family is seen as evidence of lack of a guy's true affection.

And the truth is, most guys here are every bit as shallow and bad as the women they criticize in terms of being focused on the almighty dollar. They just object to the idea that they would have to part with some portion more than they want in order to get laid, despite the fact that most aren't anywhere near as "hot" as they expect their women to be, and their attitudes are anything but endearing or respectful. If all you want to bring to the table is your dick and your sense that women are there only to serve your needs then that dick damn well [i]better[/i] be liberally wrapped in cash.

I have a question for you, Joe. Consider this scenario between Airline ABC & Airline XYZ.

Airline ABC charges $430 round trip from NY to LA on a 17 year old airplane, does not provide an in-flight meal, & makes you pay for head phones so that you can listen to the in-flight movie.

Airline XYZ charges $325 round trip from NY to LA on a 4 year old airplane, provides an in-flight meal, & has 35-station satellite TV in the seat directly in front of you so you can watch whatever you want to, including complementary headphones.

My question is in your opinion, which Airline would be the wiser choice? I’m going to go out on a limb & say that you will choose Airline XYZ because it’s a better value for the service provided.

Now consider the following comparison:

Scenario #1 - The expense, social expectations, legal ramifications & the return on investment associated with dating AW.

Scenario #2 - The expense, social expectations, legal ramifications & the return on investment associated with dating foreign women.

I'm sure most people here know that money is involved in any relationship with any woman, American or foreign. We're mongers, & for most of us that is why we choose to be mongers in the first place. But, according to your statement in post #2455:

…Thai and SE Asian women there will absolutely turn your head with attention, pampering, total focus on your needs, etc.… "Love" and the slaving attention to your needs that blows western guys away and makes them lose their heads is very directly connected to monetary support…

I’ve only been to Japan, which is more expensive than the US. But from what I read in traditional publications, as well as the postings on this board, I gather that many other Asian countries are dirt cheap compared to the US.

So if a man would be wiser for choosing one airline over another because that airline provides better service for a cheaper price, wouldn’t that same man be wiser for choosing one woman over another, foreign or domestic, who offers better service for a cheaper price?

AW want value; most of them love to take advantage of sales discounts. So what’s wrong with a man wanting to get a sales discount on the pussy? I think to do so is the stamp of a wise & prudent fellow.

ILAS

American Women Suck – now & forever

I have been to 29 countries and fucked women from 26 countries that I know of and Paraguayan women overall are the best fucks I have found. That has nothing to do with the subject at hand but I wanted to give them the credit they deserve. Méxican women can be super good but the median or average is not that high. Chileans are very good based on a relatively small sample size of six.

British women are the worst fucks I have found. This is merely my own personal opinion based on my own experience which is somewhat extensive (and was somewhat expensive as well).

1. you reduce everything to your control of your checkbook which is selfish and not very romantic.
2. you do not appreciate the good points many AW have and, having been burnt, you dare not sip from the chalice of love again.


Point 1] If I DON'T pay attention to my checkbook SHE will certainly do so FOR ME, thereby draining me dry in order for me to finance her trysts with other guys and shopping trips and whatnot.

Point 2] WHAT GOOD POINTS? So many times I've listened to female friends and acquaintances who bitched about their men, but when I observed them in the company of other friends WITHOUT their S.O. present, I got the true story. It all boils down to wanting to be in the position of power to get her way and HER WAY ONLY.

My best friend, whom I love dearly, cheated on her hubby. Granted, he was an emotional clam, but she cheated on him in less than two years of marriage! She finally left him after about 4-5 years. She was (and still is) very materialistic, always occupied with the material things hubby bought her. If she wasn't doing THAT, she was planning on getting him to loosen his wallet to get her MORE STUFF. I have NEVER heard a woman say what she did or would do for her S.O., as if that was something a man is supposed to do for a woman. In that case, what is NOT said reveals a woman's nature. I'll be DAMNED if I feed her my innermost emotions into what would amount to a botomless black hole, never to be rewarded for my effort. I refuse to drink from a poisoned chalice....

Joe, I live in Sydney Australia. Sydney has a sizeable Asian population, there are many people from different Asian countries that in this city. I know a lot of women from Southeast Asia and I have found them to be very approachable and much nicer than women who come from the more wealthier Asian countries like Japan and South Korea. I am not wealthy in anyway, I consider myself to earn an average income, I consider myself fairly good looking and athletic but was never good with money. Compared to women from the more affluent Asian countries like Japan and South Korea, I thought the Southeast Asian women I met were a lot less arrrogant and status oriented at least IMHO. There are large numbers of women from Thailand, Vietnam, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Phillipines living in my area of Sydney. Women from Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and S. Korea almost always have boyfriends(who are also Asian) who drive BMWs and Benzes(which cost over $100K in Ozzie twice what they cost in America) who have bottomless bank accounts. The SE Asian women aren't as stuck up as the Korean and Japanese women I have met, the latter tend to be very affluent. In fact if I compare an Australian woman of European/Anglo-Celtic origin, they are far more approachable than some of the Japanese and Korean ladies who are really stuck up nose in the air types, they are also racist as hell, a African American friend of mine got some really unfriendly looks in a Japanese restaurant where we had dinner, when we went to a Vietnamese place the waitresses there treated him with respect.

I don't disagree that there's a lesser amount of arrogance from SE Asian women, but that still doesn't mean that money isn't an important issue and consideration for them. Of course, when you consider general economics, wealth is a very relative thing -- life is far cheaper in SE Asia than in Japan or Korea, so it doesn't take much in a western context to provide for a family. Saying it doesn't take as much to make them happy is different from saying it's not an issue. I also agree that there's a lot more xenophobia from the north, but again, it's relative -- Thais, for example, take the issue of who is and isn't Thai very seriously (you can't become a citizen unless you can prove you've got Thai DNA.) The racism thing regarding dark skin is also something you can find often and easily in SE Asia; it simply manifests itself differently, as the cultures have a more ingrained sense of not wanting to give offense.

And I absolutely loved the Asian influence I found in Sydney (spent a lot of time in the Garden of Friendship while I was there, for example) with its lovely amalgam and mix, but it is a bit different than being in the cultures directly. I'm also with you as far as Aussie women go, as I enjoyed them immensely.

[QUOTE=Mike12] One guy I know from Albania remarked on woman being so unwomanly here and made the observation that "all the woman here think men want to bang them and hate us for it".[/QUOTE]It is iteresting that you say that because I have a lot of Hispanic & Haitian friends (I live in SE Florida) who are always telling me about how great their women are. They love the US because of the economic opportunities, & they have plenty of male American friends, but they do not like AW at all. They are always telling me, "you need to get yourself a Hispanic girl/Haitian girl. They will take good care of you".

I know that Americans tend to be insular & arrogant in our thinking, so it is necessary sometimes to obtain an outsider's perspective. And since the immigrants have first-hand experience with both countries, I tend to lend more weight to their comparisons. Funny thing is, when immigrants make the comparison between AW & the women from their country of origin, immigrants make the same observations about AW that I have made, letting me know that it's not just me.

It seems that once the immigrants arrive in the US, they still want the American dream, but not the American woman.

ILAS

American Women Suck - the whole world knows it

"One good thing about American woman is that they come in all nationalities"

Umm, no, by definition.

Not sure if this clip was seen yet but I found it intesting how the American guy said his Columbian wife became "Americanized". I guess you American guys do speak some fact here.

[url]http://www.latinlifemates.com/fox-tv-special.asp[/url]

Thanks for posting that video clip. I found it to very insightful.

Isn’t it amazing that today there is an industry which profits from sending American men to other countries just so they can find a decent woman to marry? There is no way in hell a business like this would have gotten off the ground back during the President Eisenhower era; men would have laughed at you. How times have changed.

ILAS

That video clip was very interesting. I was surprised, however that the guy was once married to a Colombian chick who became Americanized. I wonder if he thinks his next choice isn't susceptible to the phenomenon of "Americanization". My heart goes out to him, though...

Most of the "Dating Services" I have seen are all scams, honestly, its not difficult to meet wonderful women in foreign countries, and getting a phone number from a woman is as easy as simply asking for it. There are many venues where you can meet women. In Europe, I have met a lot of ladies just simply walking the streets, women aren't afraid to approach you and vice versa, a lot of European women aren't neccesarily ready to jump on you to get a VISA to the US because the living standard, at least in Western Europe, is comparable to the US. The situation maybe different in the EE/CIS countries, but even many Eastern European women I have met don't have a desire to leave home, particularly those from the Czech Republic and Hungary, which are the more modern of Eastern European countries.

Greetings all,

Not all dating services are a scam. I joined one a little over a year ago and was able to make contacts with a good number of super-hot girls.

Some of them were scammers and visa-hunters, to be sure. But, there were lot's of them that seemed to be on the level. The site had a chat feature and I would often be able to chat with any number of attractive young women.

It was such a good experience that I eventually went to visit one of these girls in her own country. It wasn't easy to decide where to go because I had 3 really good ones to choose from. The girl I met exceeded my expectations in pretty much every way imaginable, so I'd have to say it was worth the trip.

I seriously doubt that I could get with this level of woman here. A dating service isn't the only way to go, but it can give you a chance. That's way better than the chance you have of finding a good looking cheerful and trustworthy woman here at home.

Rock

ps. I liked her so much I married her.
pps. She's living here with me now, things are going very well and that's the
reason why I haven't been posting much lately.

American women just are not orgasmic enough. You have to all but paint them green. Maybe they are hung up from religion. Maybe they don't masturbate enough. Maybe they are so fat their clitorises become hidden. Maybe many American men are inept so they don't get into the habit of coming. All I know is my techniques and procedures haven't changed and the percentage of my bed partners who obviously orgasm has increased dramatically. Also simultaneous or near simultaneous (mutual) orgasms are much more frequent. And no, they aren't faking (not to say that women here never fake cuz they do but I know the difference) cuz spasms and fluids don't lie.

But still stay away from here because of the rats and snakes and earthquakes and floods and machine gun toting cops and stuff.

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]

ps. I liked her so much I married her.
pps. She's living here with me now, things are going very well and that's the
reason why I haven't been posting much lately.[/QUOTE]

Can you share with us from which country is she?
And are you taking any steps to keep her from becoming americanized?

How long have you been in the US with your new wife? I ask because I read somewhere (I do not remeber where) that the 3-year mark is when they begin to convert to the American way of thinking .

Just Curious. Best of luck

ILAS

Rats, snakes, and machine gun toting cops? Are you sure you're talking about Argentina? From what I heard, its supposed to be the Switzerland of South America. When talking about Buenos Aires, an Australian friend, said Paris is the Buenos Aires of Europe. With those kinds of comments it can't be too bad.

No CBGB, Argentina have some of the best public relations firm is the world in order to perpetuate these myths. Personally I found the "rats and snakes and earthquakes and floods and machine gun toting cops" to be the easiest things to deal with. The hard part was the crazy pimps prone to castration when the Johns wouldn't give them 10 times the agreed upon rate.

STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY It's not civalized like OZ at all. If you do come make sure you hire body guards at the security booth in the airport. It's on the left as you leave customs. Also the water is so bad that even the rain will make you sick. Get your shots before you come.

[QUOTE=Iloveanalsex]How long have you been in the US with your new wife? I ask because I read somewhere (I do not remeber where) that the 3-year mark is when they begin to convert to the American way of thinking .

Just Curious. Best of luck

ILAS[/QUOTE]

ILAS,

I believe the three year mark has to do with the fact that their conditional permanent resident status is removed after 2 yrs from the date of entry into the US. At that point they cannot be deported if divorced, therefore the incentives to cater to horny hubby's needs rapidly decline. They soon begin to Americanize and there isn't a thing that can stop them from assimilating then. They are now legal permanent residents with the right to put their husband's balls in a purse or pickle jar if they so desire.

The women who aren't very smart usually show signs of Americanization within 6 months of arriving when they can be divorced and deported when their 2 year condition permanent resident status expires. The others who do their home work know that they have to wait a bit longer. That is always the risk that you take when importing a wife. Anyway, who knows? Rock might have struck gold.

Marriage within the US is fraught with risks regardless of where the woman originates from. Unless you live somewhere out in the wilderness I just don't see how you can prevent American women from "educating" your immigrant wife.

If you guys wanna see a funny example of the Americanization of a female, (educated by her American counterparts) watch the Eddie Murphy concert movie "Raw". It's funny as shit, but true to the letter....

That's why you shouldn't take them back home with you. A lot of the reasons American women are the way they are is due to American culture and society. Take them back to the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable bringing back women to Australia because Australian society doesn't value success and wealth as it is in the States.

The biggest example of an Americanized foreign woman has to be Gisele Bundchen, who is Brazilian. She showed up in Forbes as one of the richest entertainers, making over $15 million a year.

(Hmmm.... I wonder why this is happening?)

Wednesday, June 15, 2005

By Wendy McElroy

Some researchers call them the "Lost Boys." They are the students you don't see on college campuses.

The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) tracks the enrollment in all degree-granting institutions by sex. From 1992 to 2000, the ratio of enrolled males to females fell from 82 to 78 boys for every 100 girls. The NCES projects that in 2007 the ratio will be 75 males for every 100 females; in 2012, 74 per 100.

In short, your son is statistically more likely than your daughter to work a blue collar job.

Thomas Mortenson, senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, argues that leaving a generation of boys behind hurts women as well. In a Business Week cover story, Mortenson observed, "My belief is that until women decide that the education of boys is a serious issue, nothing is going to happen."

He believes some women feel threatened by even admitting the problem because "it will take away from the progress of women...What everyone needs to realize is that if boys continue to slide, women will lose too."

That realization still seems distant among educational experts, who continue to downplay the NCES statistic as well as other data that indicate schools are hurting boys.

Jacqueline King — author of the influential study "Gender Equity in Higher Education: Are Male Students at a Disadvantage?"— is an example. She found that 68 percent of college enrollees from low-income families were female; only 31 percent were male.

Yet King insists there is no "boy crisis" in education despite the fact that data from Upward Bound and Talent Search show a comparable gender gap. (These college-preparation programs operate in high schools and received $312.6 million $144.9 million in tax funding, respectively, in 2005.) Of the students who receive benefits from those college-preparation programs, approximately 61 percent are girls; 39 percent are boys.

King's quoted explanation of the gender gaps: "women make up a disproportionate share of low-income students" who go on to college. Since low-income families presumably give birth to boys in the same ratio as the general population— worldwide the ratio is between 103 to 107 boys for every 100 girls — why are so few boys applying for assistance? A higher drop-out rate might be partly responsible, or boys may have no interest in higher education.

King comments on the latter explanation: "male low-income students have some ability in this strong economy to make a decent living with just a high-school diploma." In particular, she points to the construction industry.

King may be correct. The fact that low-income boys gravitate toward manual labor may account for some of the educational gender disparity. What is striking, however, is her apparent dismissal of that disparity as important. She seems to accept the reality that far fewer men than women enroll in college and that poor boys enter "the trades" while poor girls become professionals.

Imagine the gender ratio being reversed, with 78 girls for every 100 boys entering college. Imagine a generation of poor girls being relegated to low social status labor while tax funding assists poor boys. It is difficult to believe King would be similarly unconcerned.

Nevertheless, merely by acknowledging the situation, King shows far more balance than prominent voices, like the American Association of University Women, which still maintains there is a "girl crisis."

Fortunately, researchers like Judith Kleinfeld of the University of Alaska see that boys are in distress.

Kleinfeld — author of "The Myth That Schools Shortchange Girls" — states, "In my own college classes, I see a sea change in the behavior of young men. In the 1980s, the young men talked in my classes about the same as young women. I know because each semester I measured male and female talk. Now so many young men are disengaged that the more articulate, ambitious women dominate the classroom ....and my office hours."

Kleinfeld tried to trace the problem backward by interviewing high school students on plans for their future. She states, "The young women almost always have a clear, realistic plan—-go to college, have a career, often directed toward an idealistic goals about improving the environment."

This clarity of vision and was generally absent in young men.

Among those who acknowledge the "boy crisis," explanations are vary and may all be true. Some point to the "feminization" of education over the last decade, which occurred largely in response to a perceived need to encourage girls. But, if boys and girls learn differently, then the changes may be placing boys at a disadvantage.

Others point to explicitly anti-male attitudes — that is, political correctness — within education. The website Illinois Loop lists "22 School Practices That May Harm Boys." One of them: "'Modern' textbooks and recommended literature often go to extremes to remove male role models as lead characters and examples."

Kleinfeld points speculatively to the impact of increased divorce and fatherless homes on the self-image of boys who lack a positive male role-model.

Approximately 40 percent of American children now live in homes without their own biological father.

Ultimately, explanations of and solutions to the "boy crisis" will come from exploring a combination of factors. My solution: privatize education and place it under the control of parents or adult students.

The first step to any solution, however, is to acknowledge there is a problem. We are not quite there yet.

Chocha,

I did not know about the 2-year conditional resident status thing. It all makes sense now; I learned something today.

I tell you women can really be slick. I just don’t know how women, as cute as they sometimes are, can be so damned devious. I guess I’ll never understand that one.

Btw, I remember the Eddie Murphy comedy video that Sinanju was referring to. It is hilarious. And to think we still have the same issue 2 decades later. What a shame.

ILAS

The biggest and most famous example of a foreign woman turning renegade is Ivana Trump. When Ivana filed to divorce Donald Trump, she demanded a Billion dollars from her husband. At first Trump did not want to give in, but on the advice of his lawyers he was told that it was the best option because she might have sued for more. So Trump called Ivana and told her that he would give her a bank certified check for a billion dollars. You want to know her response? She said she did not want a check instead, she wanted a billion dollars in 1 dollar bills, that's correct this b*itch wanted a billion dollars in 1 dollar bills. It took Trump and his lawyers a month to convince the United States Treasury to print a billion 1 dollar notes. Many poor workers at the US treasury had to work double overtime in order to complete the request, which took 48 days to finish. When it was done Trump called an armored car service, they asked him how he wanted the money to be delivered. Trump said he didn't care, he even said it was okay to dump it on Ivana's front lawn of her Miami estate. A convoy of 128 armored cars delivered the money to Ivana Trump's address in Florida. When the convoy arrived, Ivana refused to take delivery of the money, she then phoned up Donald Trump, and told him "You know what? I changed my mind, I don't want a billion one dollar bills, just send me a certified check.". Yes so big time stinkers like Ivana Trump can be found abroad too. The best advice, don't bring them back to the States.

I was watching NBC News at 6PM today & they were discussing the Michael Jackson verdict with the prosecuting attorney. The story mentioned that the jury did not believe the story & felt that the mother may have put the boy up to it in order to extort money from Jackson. When the prosecutor was asked about the jury’s perception of the mother, his response included that she had been the victim of domestic violence.

Now I did not follow the Jackson case closely, so I am trying to give the prosecutor the benefit of the doubt, but I thought this case was about alcohol & child molestation. When did mom’s domestic violence come into it?

My question is if anyone on here knows what domestic violence had to do with mom’s credibility on the witness stand? I could be wrong, but I have a sneaky suspicion that this is an attempt by the State to justify their failure to win a conviction in this case by using the “women are always victims” tactic. The idea that mom could be a liar & the eight women & four men on the jury saw through her charade could not possibly be the reason they did not believe the story. Of course not; the jury was somehow blinded by mom’s past subjection to domestic violence!

My God, US women can’t even lose a case in court without someone trying to use some psychological buzzword to explain it away.

Also today, the Florida Medical Examiner’s autopsy findings completely exonerated Terri Shiavo’s husband of any wrongdoing, and of course there has not been any response by Terri’s parents or siblings about the autopsy findings even though they demonized this calling him a spouse abuser, womanizer & anything else they could think of (It’s amazing how silence overcomes the noisy once the truth comes out).

I’m just waiting for someone else in this country to attempt to counter the autopsy findings & explain to the rest of us why they should not have removed the feeding tube from a 15-year brain dead patient with her legally married husbands consent. Now, the autopsy shows that she was not abused, so domestic violence is not a viable ploy. I got it! Maybe Terri was suffering from post-partum depression at the time they removed her feeding tube. Surely that will make Terri a victim once again in the eyes of our “women are always victims” society.

ILAS

American Women Suck – and society isn’t helping it any.

That story is complete bullshit.

Ivana Trump got $25mil from "The Donald" after thirteen years of being married, because of a pre-nup. That's pretty small potatoes from a billionaire.

I saw a similar story (Long's college article) but it was oriented more towards the college social life-basically, in the man deficient environment, girls compete aggressively for boyfiriends, and even basically engage in public lesbian behavior in order to get the attention of men. Maybe I should go and pick up that PhD before splitting the country. I likes me some coeds (but not what they balloon into unfortunately).

Incidently, I'm also aware of another coping mechanism that is I'm sure partially inspired by the above mentioned deficiency. There is a class of girls that have evolved on college campuses who are known as LUGs...that is (L)esbians (U)ntil (G)raduation. Basically, they dyke it out all over the place for four years, and forego all of the terrible difficulties that men cause them, and then after graduating, switch teams, and start hunting for a guy to give them babies and a white pickett fence. It's good to know that we can be eliminated, even on a short term basis.

One other thing. Where I live (the sticks), don't so much see the sexless career women that you guys describe, as pretty much well...hillbilly chicks (the world would be a better place if they were sexless, instead of replicating themselves and the local losers 3-8 times each. I'm not kidding about the 8 incidently). However, in a major bookstore chain, I laughed my head off as I saw exactly what you guys were talking about (I used to work downtown Chicago, but it's been several years). There was this obvious dressed down career women (with her own big silver cofee mug), and if she could have possibly radiated any less femininity, I can't imagine how.

CbGb you have been misinformed. The Donald kept the Florida estate and Ivana did get something like 25 million.

However in this mongerers estimation, $25,000,000.00 was a lot of money for bearing two kids and having brazilian waxes done. I don't care if she was having to fuck that ugly prick, 25 million bucks is a shitload of money when you weren't going to the office to make it. I also could give a good fuck less how much money the ex is worth it's a shitload. I'm also not interested in how she helped him make by helping maintain his network, a good secretary could do the same for a lot less severance.

Let's see, that's almost 2 million/year (actually, it's 1.923 million/yr).

Now I don't earn 1.923 million per year, so that's a nice sum of money in my eyes. In fact, most people, single or married, will not earn 1.923 million in a lifetime.

Maybe if I were a millionaire, I would feel Ivanna's pain & wonder how she could live on such a paltry sum of money.

Then again, maybe I'm in the minority & this board is full of aristocrats.

CBGB, sorry, but you are yet another taken in by an urban legend.
There are dozens of myth debunking websites if you are interested, but this is a cute introduction.

[url]www.science.howstuffworks.com/urban-legend.htm[/url]

Cheers,

Sporadic

Here's an atricle that I found to be interesting. I've posted the link in case you want to read the article at the Fox News website: [url]http: //www. foxnews. com/story/0, 2933, 158227, 00. html[/url]

Fathers' Rights Victory In Massachusetts Wednesday, June 01, 2005 By Wendy McElroy

A determined father in Massachusetts has delivered an early Father's Day gift to non-custodial parents, the overwhelming majority of whom are dads.

Dr. Henry M. Fassler has successfully contested a 1998 Massachusetts law that requires a non-custodial parent to have court certification as a non-batterer on a yearly basis before he (or she) is allowed access to their children's school records. The school system currently views all non-custodial parents as guilty of battery until proven innocent. But all that is going to change.

The specifics of Fassler's case: he wanted to see the academic class list for his 17-year-old daughter Lindsay, who had asked him for help. No charge or complaint had ever been filed against Fassler; he is on good terms with his ex-wife and children.

When the school refused the class list, Fassler not only got angry, he also got active. Last October, he complained to the Family Policy Compliance Office at the U. S. Department of Education, challenging the statute as discriminatory. On May 6, the DOE sent a letter to Massachusetts' Education Commissioner David P. Driscoll, which warned that "the commonwealth and every school district in Massachusetts is in violation of federal law, and has been for years. "

The letter explained, "non-custodial parents cannot be denied access to school records unless there is evidence those 'rights have been specifically revoked'. " The government cannot stand between parent and child when no evidence of abuse is present.

Father's rights advocates had fought against the law since its passage. (Indeed, Fassler belongs to Fathers and Families, a leading voice in that battle.) Suddenly, however, with millions in federal funding at stake, Driscoll has indicated that a "new policy" will treat divorced parents more fairly.

The struggle in Massachusetts for non-custodial rights offers both hope and lessons to divorced parents across North America.

One lesson is cautionary: even well-intended laws can be hijacked and used for unintended political purposes. This one fact alone should prejudice reformers in favor of repealing bad laws rather than stacking the new ones ever higher.

According to Fassler, the 1998 statute was first pushed by father's advocates who wanted to clarify their parental right to school records. Then, anti-domestic violence groups -- especially a Boston-based victims advocacy group, Jane Doe Inc. (JDI) -- amended the measure to make a distinction between custodial and non-custodial parents. Fassler claims the changes converted the statute into an "abuse-prevention bill" that discriminated against the very fathers who suggested it.

JDI has a history of receiving large tax-funded contracts to handle the training and other assistance necessary to implement anti-abuse programs in Massachusetts; it seems natural to assume that JDI wielded influence over the policy-makers with whom it has established a long and remunerative partnership. Nancy Scannell of JDI helped to draft the statute.

By contrast, the father's rights advocates against whom JDI is often pitted consist almost entirely of volunteers.

This is another lesson from the Massachusetts struggle. Grassroots organizations and actions can prevail over generously tax-funded agencies, but it is crucial to "follow the money. " The crusade against the 1998 statute won out only when Fassler called federal funding into question.

But following the money means more than this; the tax-funding of JDI should be tracked and made public. As taxpayers, fathers have a right to know how such funds are dispensed and to expose any political bias in the granting of contracts.

Moreover, any organization that will profit from a legislative measure should be excluded from drafting it. The exclusion is important. The Boston Globe quotes Scannell as saying she "will eagerly participate in any discussion to rewrite the bill. " If the "non-profit" JDI will eagerly cash checks based on such a rewrite, then JDI should not shape its language.

Yet, despite words of caution, the news from Massachusetts is heartening. Non-custodial parents will no longer be viewed as abusive until proven innocent. Fathers can play a greater role in their children's academic lives.

Radio host Glenn Sacks, who campaigned against the 1998 statute, explains the importance of a father's presence. "As a former high school teacher…I could teach a class for a few weeks and then have a pretty good idea which kids had fathers in their lives and which ones didn't. I had few discipline problems…but I always knew that there was one truly effective way to get an errant boy to change his ways--call his dad and explain…that he needs to leave work and come to the school to talk to me about his son's behavior. It was 100 percent effective. "

That option may now be available to all of Massachusetts' teachers, parents, and children.

Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists. com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century" (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.

maybe desiree nall lied because she's a victim of domestic violence.

i used to live in brevard county, florida (that's where i got my first divorce. here's the link: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153969,00.html[/url]

false [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] claim hurts real victims
wednesday, april 20, 2005
by wendy mcelroy

on april 8, the president of the brevard, fla., chapter of the national organization for women was charged by the florida state attorney's office with filing a false [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] report and making a false official statement.

she could be imprisoned for one year on each count and forced to pay for the police investigation she incurred. the case has far-reaching implications for gender politics and for women who report sexual assault in the future.

the facts are as follows. on nov. 17, 2004, part-time rollins college student desiree nall reported being raped in a campus bathroom by two men. the winter park police department put rollins on ‘high alert,’ advising students to remain indoors when possible.

the dean immediately dispatched a campus-wide email to assure students that extra security measures were being taken.

in a sandspur article entitled "a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] hoax is no way to get attention,"jean bernard chery relates how the incident impacted campus life.

"it was a nightmare for every female student and faculty/staff at rollins. they were afraid to go to the bathroom or walk on campus alone after dusk….the incident prompted a candlelight vigil on campus in support of the alleged victim [then unnamed]," chery wrote.

the police had reason for skepticism. nall could not assist with composite sketches, offered inconsistent details and did not wish to press charges. an examination at a sexual assault treatment center after the alleged attack produced no evidence of foreign dna.

due to publicity and campus panic, however, a police investigation continued at a final estimated cost of more than $50,000. the report of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] was judged a hoax.

according to police, on nov. 19,nall phoned and asked to have the case dropped. when detective jon askins questioned her original report, nall reportedly confessed that she was "not a victim of a sexual batter." the police speculate that nall, a vocal feminist, may have been trying to "make a statement" about violence against women. the allege raped occurred during sexual assault awareness week, which was intended to highlight the issue of sexual violence against women.

jeff nall, desiree’s husband, has been speaking publicly on her behalf. he claims the charges will be appealed on the grounds that an attempted assault did occur. he denies that she confessed to lying. he claims she has been targeted by police because "she is a women's-rights activist."

he also distances now from the unfolding fiasco by pointing out that his wife became a chapter president only recently, prior to the incident. moreover, according to one article in the sandspur, he argues "that sexual assault cases such as this are not one of the platforms of now."

now apparently wishes to maintain distance as well. as of monday, searching it’s website for the term "nall" returns no results. after all, now has argued that women do not lie about [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. catharine mackinnon--a founding mother of the gender feminism that now promotes -- stated in her book, feminism unmodified, "the reason feminism uncovered this reality [of male oppression], its methodological secret, is that feminism is built on believing women's accounts of sexual use and abuse by men."

if this methodology is debunked, if women are viewed as no more or less likely to lie than men, then the foundation of gender politics collapses.

it is premature and grandiose, however, to see the collapse of gender feminism within the nall news story. a false account of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in a bathroom is a much smaller and more tawdry tale: a tempest in a toilet.

assuming that nall lied, she has achieved the opposite of what i believe she intended. by "crying [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]" she has made every woman who is a victim less credible and less likely to receive justice from the police or the public. she has made women less safe.

rollins student elizabeth humphrey states the point simply: "lying about that story is absolutely horrible because women are victimized every day. and if we get the reputation of lying, then people won't start to believe us if it does happen."

instead of publicizing sexual violence against women, nall has spotlighted the problem of false accusations against men. her case also raises the question of whether now-style feminists encourage false accusations when they flatly insist that women must be believed.

in the ‘60s, feminists fought to have [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] taken seriously. but taking an accusation seriously is not the same as granting it automatic validity. rather, it means investigating the facts and weighing them in an unbiased manner that favors no one and nothing but the truth.

a lot of ugly truth may surface in the coming months. the state of florida seems determined to pursue its case against nall, who seems determined to fight back.

winter park sgt. pam marcum explained to the orlando sentinel that bringing charges against nall had taken so long because the police department sought a second opinion from the state attorney’s office. it is rare for those who file false reports of sexual abuse to be prosecuted. in short, the prosecution is carefully constructing a case; the defense is loudly crying ‘political persecution!’ in the process, the definition and legal status of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] within our society continues to evolve.

where it comes to rest depends largely upon the honesty-- not the now-like silence -- with which women confront the problem of false accusations.

wendy mcelroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for the independent institute in oakland, calif. she is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "liberty for women: freedom and feminism in the 21st century" (ivan r. dee/independent institute, 2002). she lives with her husband in canada.

If they had sex twice a week it works out to $18,491 per fuck. Hell, if they had sex every dang day it is $5,283 per fuck. That is $15,057 Argentinean pesos so I could fuck Pandora 125 times a day. Or I could go to Oba Oba for 1,004 half hour sessions per day. Oh, wait a minute; there are only 48 half hours in a day. And Pandora is probably already getting fucked 125 times a day.

Personally for $5,283 a day I would go to Amsterdam and get Yab Yum's limousine filled with a wide ethnic variety of chicas, get some monster dope, and just drive around all day buried in pussy. It's hard to run a financial empire that way, though.

If you think american women are bad you should meet british women. Polyester is not sexy. Really.

Its quite funny, I come back to the forum after 6 months and the first post I see is from Dickhead, some things never change!

Anyway, I totally agree with Dickhead, stay away from Argentina, its really dangerous, the pimps are evil, the pr is overblown, prices are overinflated, girls aren't that great either. I know, I've been there.

Recommend you go to Chile instead.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur] Many poor workers at the US treasury had to work double overtime in order to complete the request, which took 48 days to finish.[.quote]I think CBGBConnisur got this part all wrong too. Since when are the federal workers at the US Treasury considered poor? I think the average starting wage is about $20 an hour and with all that overtime they probably all bought new cars that year. And what would Ivana have done with all those $1 dollar bills? Think and verify before you write anything, dude.

$5000 would pay to spend some time with a bunch of Yab Yum women for the entire day? I would be surprised about that, I bet the real cost would be $50,000 plus.

But then you thought Ivana got a billion dollars, specially printed by the US treasury. So, Yab Yum probably would charge [b]you[/b] $50,000. Anyway the dope would put me to sleep after a couple of hours and then if I had any money left they would just steal it so I don't see where it is a problem as long as I save 40 Euros for a hostel every day.

Tell you what. You go to their website and send them a message saying you want five hookers for all day for 5,000 Euros and do it in English. I will do the same thing in Dutch and we will see what they say.

Honestly, I would rather rent Cafe Foto in Sao Paulo or K5 in Prague for a weekend with that much cash. The Prague women completely blow away the women in Amsterdam.

Well, to get back on topic, why is it that all American women, including my ex-wife were seriously twisted? With the notable exception of my Mother (yours too!), it goes without saying. ;)

In my case, when I look back at the good old USA from the perspective of a 25 year expat, I am very saddened. Oh, how things have changed.

A wise friend of mine once asked me, "have they changed, or have you?"

Damn good question.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Longstroker and ILAS,

Thanks for the recent kind words and sorry about the delay in posting.

The question was asked about what steps I had taken to prevent the "americanization" of my new wife. I think there are some things that can be done.

First, selection is everything. I went through a LOT of women before I decided which one was right for me. Just like you have to taste a few mediocre wines before you can know a good one, so it is with women.

Second, I had an age cutoff point of 25 years old. Any younger than this and it will be too easy for most women to take on some of the more undesirable aspects of our western culture. My theory is that the older the girl, the more set in her ways she will be. Her traditional culture and values should hopefully be more deeply ingrained.

Third, I chose a girl that already had a decent (by local standards) job. It's been my experience that girls claiming to be students, models or hairdressers are usually part-time hookers. A girl with a regular job is way more likely to appreciate your money and what it takes for you to earn it.

Fourth, I took a lot of time to get to know my girl. That meant long hours at 1 AM chatting online, hundreds of dollars in phone bills and 2 separate trips to go visit her in her own country. Unlike those guys in that video clip that went down to Colombia and blindly picked out some chica because she was the prettiest one in the room.

While I was there for my visits, I met many of her friends and most of her family as well. Often times, a girls friends and family can tell you a lot about what kind of person she is.

Now that she is here with me, I encourage her to spend her social time with some people from her country that happen to live here. I subtly discourage her from making too many friends with the girls that live around here.

All in all, if it's gonna happen, it will eventually. The best policy is probably prevention by picking a woman who will be less susceptible to our bad western influences.

Hope this helps out anyone who is looking to do the same as I did.

Rock

Even though I have had two failed marriages, I am not anti-marriage. My parents are still married after 35 years, their only marriage, high school sweethearts. Now I do recognize that my parents are from a different generation. Nonetheless, I still believe that marriage can work for generation-Xers, so I wish you the best, Rock.

A few days ago while having a cup of my favorite brew at a coffee shop I was reminded why I have nothing to do with American women.

Maybe it was the caffeine that caused them to chatter so freely, but I couldn't believe what I was hearing. None in the group was over a 7 on a scale of 10, but neither were they obese either. It would be safe to say that they all were under 26 yrs of age.

They were talking about how lame guys were for buying them lunch or asking them out on a date. They criticized the physical attributes of particular men and laughed in amusement. Every man who made an attempt to get to know them was considered a stalker. Compliments on their dress or hair were seen as supplications for access to their vaginas. It seemed that these women grew happier and felt better about themselves by the minute as they busted balls.

I felt concerned, not for myself but for the unsuspecting men who were going to try date these women. The best that they could hope for was to be shot down and laughed at. The worst that could happen would be to get into a relationship with one. I have always known that American women were materialistic but I forgot that they also thrive on inflicting emotional damage on men. They thrive on dealing blows to the male ego. I recall that this was quite common among teenagers at school but I always thought that girls grew out of it as they became women. Perhaps I was wrong, it may be the viciousness only becomes more sophisticated and covert.

These same women will be wondering why they can't get a date tens years from now. They will try to figure out why they get fucked and chucked. I sipped my coffee and savoured memories of the land from whence it came. Some things will never change.

Chocha,

Those women are losers. Quite often, people will criticize something and make negative comments because they can't have that same thing. Making it seem bad makes them feel better about not having it.

Consider this example. You're sitting with a friend at a cafe as a brand new Mercedes drives past. Then your friend starts up about how stupid that car is, costs as much as a house, too much for insurance and maintenance etc etc. Deep down inside he would dearly love to be able to afford such a car, but he can't..... so he makes himself feel better by trying to convince himself that having one is a bad idea.

I think that's what those women were really trying to do. Make themselves feel better by cutting someone else down. Sexism isn't limited to men.

As an aside, I recently heard a statistic that claims over 70% of women are unable to have an orgasm. I'd bet that these women are probably in that group. Otherwise, they might be enjoying a good lay instead of sitting around criticizing men and complaining to each other in some stupid coffee shop.

Rock

I bet that excluded Latinas, they are the most orgasm happy group I've ever seen.

American women just suck, why waste your time? Even the ones I love as friends I would never, ever get involved with.

The reasons that American women suck are numerous and complex, you could write volumes about it. But the underlying reason is contemporary American culture and society, which is full of contradictions and conflicting views. On one hand women are taught to be women and on the other they are taught to be something else. The superpowerful US media pretty much has brainwashed about 98 percent of the American male population, most of us on this board represent an enlightened minority, who have traveled the world and have seen how life can be different. The Domino's Pizzas and the other ones who defend American women are just hooked into the US media mind manipulation.

Chocha, sad but true, these women will probably go out on dates and land someone to cling on to - some pussified/chump male - which abound by great numbers.

I totally agree with CBGBConnisur which pretty much explains why these women will go out on dates but probably (and hopefully) not with those of us on this forum who "represent an enlightened minority".

Before, I used to drool over American/ Americanized women, now I know better. It's funny actually because of the way in which I view them. They might take me for being one of those unenlightened majority, but they're dead wrong. When I deal with them (not very often) inside I'm cracking up and saying "yeah right, dream-on, whatever!!".

I've not heard from Domino in some time now. I guess he really has abandoned the AW thread for the Thailand thread, which brings me to my question.

I don't know if Domino has ever made this comparison before, but I'd love to know what he thinks about Thai women. Or better yet, which does he prefer, Thai or AW & why?

I'm just really curious to know his response.

ILAS

Hi All,

I am amazed reading this threat. Are really American women so bad?

Granted I do not leave in the USA, but I did had Australian and British girlfriends that basically do come from the same Anglo-Saxon culture tradition. I have done my bit of travelling around the globe and have had esperiences with Latin and Slavic women. And I find that in many respects it maybe far easier to be with a western woman.

True with Latin/Slavic woman, you can be a king, and everything is at your wish, but you always have to pay, as a woman never pays. You have to pay while taking her out, buying her presets, and entertaining her. You are a breadwinner, and a woman takes care of your domestic and sexual happiness.

A western woman is different. They tend to be mere independent and do what they like. The relationship is more like a partnership. They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you. But there are advantages. You never have to pay for them, as they pay there way, be it a restaurant bill, or 50% of holiday expenses.

In my experience it works out to be this way. You can go and have a beach/skiing holiday with Latin/Slavic 8s and 10s but you have to pay 100%. You can also go and have a holiday with a Western woman which would be 5s-7s, but she would pay her half of the costs. Experiences would be different but equally enjoyable. Sex with Latina probably would be more caring / passionate / sweet. But with a western woman it is likely be more “dirty”, as they have seen a fair amount of porn as well, and quite easily can act as a porn actresses and are fluent in dirty talk.

I see the above as a fair trade-off, and I think this thread is well anti-western women biased, and perhaps driven by man, who simply do not know how to handle a western woman?

a) There is no way in the world that American women are more "dirty" than Latina women, unless you are referring to personal hygiene.
b) Which is it, you don't leave the US or you have done your share of traveling around the globe? The two are mutually exclusive.
c) While I agree AWs pay for more than Latinas do, in the initial stages the man is still paying for most things most of the time.
d) "They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you." Thus getting back to one of the roots of the issue, which is that AWs aren't nearly horny enough.
e) Latina women also watch porn, not that this is any particular advantage.

You need to get your feet wet in order to understand what it is we're talking about regarding American Women. The horror stories of watching them crush a guy's ego in front of their friends for the pure sport of it, the manupulation in order to separate a guy from his money and resources, the ease with which they will lie in order to fuck with a guy's mind just so she can have some fun... these are REAL EVENTS, not some fabrication. My advice to you, beware...

In my travels overseas (even to some countries that have robust economies that have high standards) I encountered women that are the complete OPPOSITE of American Women: Polite, well-mannered, pleasant, easy to talk to, and a complete delight to be around. In over 20 years of traveling, I've met LESS THAN a handful of foreign women that I'd kick to the curb for their attitudes alone.

It's as if the rest of the world's women has the maturity and class that American Women LACK. Mingle with them some more and THEN I'd like to see the nature of your posts

The irony is, Siesta has probably been played by some of those same American Women without even knowing it. They can be sneaky that way, you know?

I misunderstood him. He said he did not "leave [b]in[/b] the USA." I think he meant he did not "[b]live[/b] in the USA." So, he is not American and English is not his first language, most likely. So this means he has met the American women who are willing to travel and/or meet foreigners, which is not the majority.

Anyway Siesta, I apologize for misreading your post. American women still suck but that is not my problem any more.

You all may or may not agree with what this guy has to say, but don't beat him up for what he doesn't say. If I read his post correctly, he is talking about brits & aussies, not american women. There's plenty in what he does say to call him on. I think we should stick to that. For instance, if he's having sex only when his western gf is horny, he can't have very much experience. Who cares what he thinks.

This Siesta character has not been to the USA, from his wording English isn't a first language for him. Yet still, he doesn't have one clue about what life in the US is really like.

I wasn't bashing Siesta (if it seemed that way) but I DO think he was making a comment about something of which he has very little if any experience. I tried to bring that to his attention, and it may have seemed coarse. For that, I offer apologies. Many comments here are aimed at WESTERN women and their attitudes and I won't dispute much of that. My comments are aimed at AMERICAN WOMEN and come from experience as do the comments of many of you here. I feel that I was telling Siesta that he needs to pull back the curtain to expose the Great All-Powerful Oz what for what it is.

There is a good chance that these AW's that travel overseas do NOT travel in such a large pack like back home, and therefore the evidence of the sport of ego-crushing is minimal or nonexistent. Having not witnessed this despicable practice very much if at all, I feel, may have shaped his current opinion, which is different from the prevailing school of thought on this board.

"A western woman is different. They tend to be mere independent and do what they like. The relationship is more like a partnership. They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you. But there are advantages. You never have to pay for them, as they pay there way, be it a restaurant bill, or 50% of holiday expenses."

It's obvious that Siesta has no experience with American women. The statement above might be true of Swedish women for example but not American women by a long shot. It is true that AW will do whatever they want, but they have a serious problem with a man trying to do the same. The relationship is a partnership where the woman seeks to make 95% of the decisions. It's also true that they will only fuck you when they are horny or they want you to purchase them the latest "must have" item. As for never having to pay for them, that is a total fallacy. Some women may pay some portion of the expenses initially, however once they start putting out the pussy this comes to an abrupt end. The man is then expected to pay 100% of all expenses even though the woman only fucks him when she feels horny. You can be assured that she will feel horny less frequently as the relationship progresses.

With a Western woman you will still have to be the "breadwinner". If you don't pay up front you will pay on the way out. Just ask all the divorced men about the back loaded fund called marriage in the West.

While Western women can talk dirty and might even be mechanically proficient at sex, it is often sex without soul or true emotion.

Why settle for cold sex with a woman who only fucks you when she has nothing better to do? Latinas have hot pussy and whatever you spend on them is peanuts compared to the cost of having a Western girlfriend/wife.

I don't believe that dealing with Western women's bullshit is a "fair" trade-off for occasional mediocre sex. You may have to pay a Latina's way but that is only because she is a queen and deserves to be treated as such. In return for this you will be her king. She will suck you, fuck you, even cook and wash for you when you wish. It's good to be king!

i heard one of a kind of funny one regarding the women paying. i once read a rant online by a guy who felt a need to explain to his girlfriend with whom he was supposed to be sharing expenses equally that $20 was not half of anything except $40. when they went to aruba, and the whole deal went on his credit card, she gave him $20. he spent $160 taking her parents to a nice restaurant, and she gave him $20-you guys get the idea-"fair and equitable"

regarding siesta's post, what he is describing as appearently in his opinion less than optimal behavior in latinas and ee women, sounds like paradise to me. i personally will gladly foot the bill for a woman who is faithful, and makes her priority my well being-that is actually "fair and equitable", a concept that our lovely domestic models don't have a grasp on. have your cake and eat it too(until you get very fat) is more their speed

regarding the "bashing", yes, this forum may seem to be "over the top" at times, but basically it is one of the very few tiny voices raised against the din of the media, our culture, our education system, feminist academia, and our government and judiciary bodies.

waiting for an elevator in manhattan office building and out pops 2 women with luggage. one looks at me and smiling says hello in a friendly way with a european accent. i nod. her friend says to her "see the men here in ny don't say hello". actually i was speechless because they were both gorgeous and the american one was near 6ft tall and looked like a combination of naomi campbell and stacey dash with tight jeans plastered on.

to the guy who wants to know what life is like here in the us in regards to women-it sucks. you are constantly on guard with females when it comes to talking. one girl moaned "he always says the wrong things". it's like verbal chess. the in thing now for females is to brand the guy a stalker! and watch out you might be called a weirdo guy if you want to park in a less crowded section of the parking lot.

I was on vacation in Spain, and in this grocery store, the checkout lady working there was a gorgeous Spanish blonde with a honey complexion, yet some knucklehead next to me kept talking about Jennifer Aniston, this local didn't have a clue that a really nice piece of woman was only a few feet away from us. Jennifer A on her best day couldn't compare to this beauty.

Mike I know exactly what the fuck your talking about being on guard. If you are not their compleat package then addressing them is something your simply no allowed to do or you are a stalker. How many time i have heard my friends that are girls here ***** about two things
1. Too many LOSERS hitting on them.

2. Not meeting any GOOD guys.

Siesta, I have yet to meet the AW that paid their 50%, my experiance is that their 50% is telling me what we should do that I will pay for. Once I was leaving a movie with a girlfriend here and she said "next time I pick the movie" and was pissed when I told her I would be happy to go to any movie that SHE paid for. She hit the fucking roof, her responce "just because your paying for it doesn't mean you get to pick it." I told her that because I was paying for it was WHY I get to pick it.

I still pay for all the dates with my girl in BsAs, but when she has something she would like to do, she whispers it in my ear says please and lightly pinches my nipple or something. I'm all in for that kind of manipulation, but the bitches here just DEMAND it. My problem with AW has always been their idea of entitalment, as if I am expected to put up with anything just for the privalage of being around them.

I'm happy to pay for all the dinners and movies and trips if it means I'm the King of the castle and she is my Queen.

Well said, my bretheren! However, I feel that Siesta is rooted in his opinion, as are WE (at least experience taught US). He is on his way to what he thinks is a wonderful acquatic petting zoo, but is in actuality, open water littered with chum while he tries to pet the Great Whites he adores. If he needs to lose a limb in order to learn a lesson, I will be the LAST ONE to stand in his way...

I concur that Siesta probably has not been to the USA or at least not for long. That said, I have had several European friends that have visited the USA for a week or so and hit major cities like NY and Miami. Several scored with the locals and reportedly had great experiences. Nothing but praise for AW, or at least the ease of bagging some decent ones in bars. I once went out with one of these guys and the girls were on him like flies on shit, I couldnt believe it, this guy is decent-looking but not outstanding. Could it be that AW treat them differently or that they know something we dont about handling our women? I really dont/didnt think that the foreign=interesting concept applies to AW.

There is another site americanwomensuck.com, I heard the guy who runs it was getting bombarded with threats of all kinds because of it from AWs, he even has AW sympathizing homos threatening him. This Siesta dude is going to get bit in half by those AW sharks.

Thank you for posting your comments in this thread. I am a firm believer of open dialogue & I always welcome opposing viewpoints, so welcome aboard!

Siesta, American Women Suck. I know this first hand. I am originally from Chicago, I served in the Armed Forces & lived in Japan & England for a total of 5 years, I now live in SE Florida & I’m twice divorced (both American Women – one white & one black).

I would like to know where you are originally from, where you live now if different from your origin & how many British/Anglo women you have had relationships with (ballpark figure is good enough). I’m just trying to get an understanding of the basis of your opinion in order to better appreciate your viewpoint.

ILAS

American Women Suck – Siesta will learn this soon enough

I just took a look at the site and I LIKE IT! The caretaker of the site must have known that ball-less, feminazi-sympathizing gay men and their soul-sucking, wallet-draining, man-hating female co-conspirators would mount an effort to collect a bunch of pitchfork-carrying villagers to hound him. The dude has MY support 100%. He lays out his points pretty eloquently, and that is sure to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off the shemons (whoops! I meant DEMONS)

[QUOTE=Moore]I concur that Siesta probably has not been to the USA or at least not for long. That said, I have had several European friends that have visited the USA for a week or so and hit major cities like NY and Miami. Several scored with the locals and reportedly had great experiences. Nothing but praise for AW, or at least the ease of bagging some decent ones in bars. I once went out with one of these guys and the girls were on him like flies on shit, I couldnt believe it, this guy is decent-looking but not outstanding. Could it be that AW treat them differently or that they know something we dont about handling our women? I really dont/didnt think that the foreign=interesting concept applies to AW.[/QUOTE]
The dude must be seriously smoking some potent shit, he can find better women in his part of the world with ease. Anyway if you get a chance to go to Europe, you can turn the tables, and get Euro chics to fall on you.

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]The dude must be seriously smoking some potent shit, he can find better women in his part of the world with ease. Anyway if you get a chance to go to Europe, you can turn the tables, and get Euro chics to fall on you.[/QUOTE]No one is saying by any means that the AW are better. Ive been around the world and know that they have got to be among the worst in all aspects. I was only saying that my Euro buddies seems to score some relatively decent AW with ease.

The American women who were on the European dude like flies on shit probably thought that he had a pocket full of Euros, and he was an easy mark. Given the fact that the Euro is handing the dollar a serious ass-whipping these days, AW will look for new ways to finance that all important trip to Europe. Also, if the guy casually mentioned his chateau back in the Old Country that would explain why he was being mobbed by the AW gold-diggers.

On the other hand, some AW enjoy trying strange foreign cock simply for the bragging rights that it may bring among their friends. This seems to be more common in the North than in the South. Southern females prefer their cock to be home grown.

Remember, when you're a foreigner, you are whoever you say you are unless someone goes through quite a bit of trouble to verify your identity, assets, etc. Don't under-estimate the allure of the wealthy foreign boyfriend to American women. They may have assumed that since this guy was from Europe he must have had money in order to be vacationing in the US. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if this same guy was a Mexican national or even Canadian perhaps? Even post 9/11 with all the supposed anti-Arab backlash any Saudi college student can walk into a bar and walk out with more pussy than he knows what to do with.

There is nothing that the foreign guys know about handling American women that we don't. AW are not that complicated or complex, just follow the money and you'll have them figured out everytime. ;)

I found this article quite amazing. Even though it only explains why white men prefer asian women over white women and the like, it also explains alot of things about attraction, behaviours found in women that can not be explained any better then this.

Why White Men Prefer Asian Women

By Fred Reed

There is near me an Asian sushi-beer-and-dinner establishment that I´ll call the Asia Spot. The region is urban, so the clientele is a mix of some of just about everything, but the waitresses are all Asian, principally Japanese, Indonesian, Vietnamese, and Thai. The Spot is a neighborhood bar. A large after-work crowd, many of them regulars, gather at happy hour. The social dynamics are curious. It would be an exaggeration to say, as someone did, that the black guys come to pick up white women, and the white men come to get away from them – but it would be an exaggeration of an underlying truth. The waitresses are a large part of the Spot´s appeal.

A common subject of conversation among male customers is how very attractive these women are when compared to American women. It is not a thought safe to utter in mixed company. It is a very common thought. American women know it.

Why are the Asians attractive? What, to huge numbers of men, makes almost any Asian more appealing than almost any American? The question is much discussed by men at the Spot. (I should say here that when I say “women,” I mean the majority of women, the mainstream, the center of gravity. Yes, there are exceptions and degrees.)

American women of my acquaintance offer several explanations, all of them wrong. For example, they say that Asian women are sexually easy. No. American women are sexually easy. The waitresses at the Spot are not available. They date, but they cannot be picked up.

Another explanation popular among American women is that men want submissive women, which Asians are believed to be. Again, no. For one thing, submissive people are bland and boring. In any event the waitresses aren´t submissive. Many compete successfully in tough professions. Among Asian waitresses I know I count an electrical engineer who does wide-area networks, and a woman with a masters in biochemistry who, upon finding that research required a Ph.D and didn´t pay, went back to school and became a dentist. Both of these wait tables to help out in the family restaurant.

At the Spot I know a woman waitressing her way through a degree in computer security, a bright Japanese college graduate making a career in the restaurant business, and the manager of the Spot – not a light-weight job. Submissiveness has nothing to do with their attractiveness.

Why, then, are they so very appealing?

To begin with, look at the American women in the Spot. Perhaps a third of them are stylishly dressed. The rest of the gringas run from undistinguished to dumpster-casual: baggy jeans, oversize shirts -- often male shirts -- with the tails out. They seem to affect a sort of homeless chic, actually to want to look bad, and do it with more than a touch of androgyny. A high proportion are at least somewhat overweight. (So are the men, but that´s another subject.) The Asians, without exception, are sleek, well-groomed, and dressed with an understated sexiness that never pushes trashy.

Further, the Asians are what were once called “ladies,” a thought repellant to feminists but very so refreshing to men. Listen to the American women at neighboring tables, and you will frequently hear phrases like, “He´s a f---ing piece of @#%$.” In what appears to be a determined attempt to be men, they have adopted the mode of discourse of a male locker room and made it their normal language. The Asians, classier, better students of men, do not have foul mouths. They presumably know about body parts and bathroom functions, but do not believe that a woman raises her stature by referring to them constantly in mixed company.

Men at the Spot, I have noticed, instantly understand that colloquial commentary is not wanted, and don´t engage in it: In the presence of the civilized, men adopt the standards of civilization. Men also tend to think of women as women think of themselves. The Asians, without displaying vanity, clearly think well of themselves. And ought to.

All in all, they give the impression that they do not want to be one of the guys. They want to be one of the girls. Here we come to the core of their appeal. Let me elaborate.

The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren´t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.

As best as I can tell, they don´t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.

The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can´t be with people who can´t be anything else. They don´t have to establish their masculinity because they don´t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.

I´ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.

Astor Bryan,

Come to southern South America or visit southern Europe and you´ll encounter civilized sexy women everywhere, not just in a Spot bar. Even better, the women are not orientals.

The average European often behaves and dresses in a manner that can make them appear to be rich to a North American. I traveled quite a bit in Europe, and people in that part of the world are very particular about their dress and appearance. I'm guessing the European guy who got lucky with some AWs was percieved as "rich" and "classy". I used to date a European lady, she was particular about her appearance and how she dressed that when I initially met her, I thought she would be some rich nose in the air snob that I wouldn't have chance with. In reality she was the daughter of a carpenter in Germany, and she turned out to be one of the nicest and most down to Earth people I have met. When I go to Europe, I pick up women left and right, and in some of the most unlikely of locales, I've gotten phone numbers and dates out of European women at bus stops, the subways and train stations, hotel lobbies, the street, wherever. They become especially friendly when they find out I'm American. In Australia, a lot of women often say "Wow, you're American.", and are just amazed to hear an American accent, I've picked up a lot of women this way, and I am not rich or super good looking, to them its exotic. Some of it has to do with the media, and the stereotype of the strong American male, the same media that I complain about which makes a big deal out of a select few American women(Madonna, Angelina Jolie, etc).

CBGB,

While I would agree with your statements ten years ago, take a look at Europe today. Granted, it has not fallen to US levels yet, but Europeans are sporting crappy clothes and dressing down nowadays. Ten years ago, only American men and children wore shorts. No longer.

There is also a serious trend toward "broad beams" in the EU nowadays.

Thank globalisation. Thank McDonalds.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Astor Bryan's post should be required reading for every fucking male in the Western Hemisphere. That article eloquently summed up a lot of the problems us Western men have with dating our piggish female counterparts.

Siesta, are you taking notes? You should be.

man that post hit the proverbial nail on the head! women liking being women instead of trying to be men. enjoying the differences of the sexes... carrying one's self with class... man, i feel like i'm stranded on a desert island limited to a diet of aw's while at the same time, i'm able to peer at another piece of land that is lush with the cure for obnoxious behavior, blandness, and mediocrity... excuse me guys, while i step out and drink myself to unconsciousness while my dilemma sets in! lol

Saw a great T-shirt worn by a knockout brunette that sums up the majority of relationships:

"I got the pussy, so I make the rules"

Comments welcome.

Angry Wife Gets Revenge Via eBay

Wednesday, June 22, 2005

Tim Shaw has gotten in trouble again — and this time it counts.

In February the obnoxious British shock jock was suspended "indefinitely" from his radio DJ job for the on-air trashing of his boss' house.

Last Thursday night, he was doing his usual 10 p.m.-to-1 a.m. shift at Birmingham-based Kerrang! 105.2 FM when he told pin-up girl Jodie Marsh on air that he'd be willing to leave his wife and two kids for her.

Unfortunately, his long-suffering wife was listening — and quickly put up his Lotus Esprit Turbo sports car for sale on eBay.

"I need to get rid of this car immediately — ideally in the next 2-3 hours before my cheating [jerk] husband gets home to find it gone and all his belongings in the street," Hayley Shaw wrote on the eBay description page, which as of Wednesday afternoon was still up.

"I am the registered owner and I have the log book. Please only buy if you can pick up tonight," she added.

The auction lasted exactly five minutes and three seconds. The car, estimated to be worth $45,000, sold for 50 pence (90 cents) and was soon driven away by a buyer who wishes to remain anonymous.

"I am sick of him disrespecting this family for the sake of his act," Hayley Shaw told a Birmingham newspaper. "The car is his pride and joy, but the idiot put my name on the log book [registration], so I just sold it. I didn't care about the money. I just wanted to get him back."

Last July, according to The Independent of London, Shaw upset his then-pregnant wife by saying on-air that he fantasized about sex with her sister. When she tearfully called to complain, he put her on air as well.

A month later, he nearly choked to death when a sausage he was simulating a sex act on broke in half.

A Kerrang! 105.2 spokesman said Tuesday that Shaw had taken a few days off to try to patch things up with his wife, who told newspapers "there is no hope for a reconciliation."

....has moved over to the AIDS forum. His writings are interesting.

Regarding LongStroker's post, it is highly ironic that this poor chap's wife is getting ready to take him for all he is worth for doing exactly what presumably got him something (wealth and materially speaking). Had this schlub gone on his radio show and said "I love and revere my wife, respect the sanctity of my marriage, and don't even notice attractive young women", his listeners would have said "what a wussy" and changed channels-no job, no fat paycheck, no stuff etc.

If you guys would like a good laugh, take a look at the latest episode of
"30 Days" with Morgan Spurlock (of "Supersize Me" fame). Morgan put's a 34 year old pudgy former "prettyboy" athlete on a regiment of anti-aging testosterone and growth hormone, plus supplements, and an intensive regiment of cardiovascular exercise and weight training. The funny thing was this guy's wife (whose physical appearance I will not comment on), who early in the program was actually acting to de-rail his progress (in an incredibly bitchy manner), appearently due to fear that if he becomes a "stud" again, he will again have access to younger more attractive women. Of particular appearent concern to her was the hot little blonde cardiovascular trainer with whom her husband was spending large amounts of time training.

GRANTED of course (I apologize for spoiling the show-promo's showed some of this anyways) the husband did later develop some health complications, and at that point,the bitchyness was to some degree justified, but early on, she didn't know that was going to happen. Her biggest concern was appearently jealousy and self interest, at the (appearent) expense of her husband's health and quality of life.

In these three paragraphs Astor has said what we have all been trying to express. It is "the chip" that drove me to BsAs and has me planning on moving there. I don't think the rest of you would like it because of the snakes and machine gun packing cops but it's for me.

Thanks again
DR
[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren´t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.

As best as I can tell, they don´t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.

The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can´t be with people who can´t be anything else. They don´t have to establish their masculinity because they don´t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.

I´ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.[/QUOTE]

I thought European women were fine with me, they're are much different fromt their US counterparts. Even French Canadian women were on a much different wavelenghth compared to AWs.

Astor Bryan,

Great post. I agree that the writer has hit the nail on the head. You know, with all the cerebral Dr. Phil, Oprah type talk shows around, I wonder why know one addresses this issue. Isn’t self acceptance the first step to self fulfillment?

Sporadic, tell me it isn’t so. Don’t tell me the European girls are now becoming fat & androgynous like AW. It’s been about 10 years since I was last in Europe & I have pleasant memories of how the European women were. I guess in another decade you won’t be able to tell any difference between Cambridge, Massachusetts & Cambridge, England.

Magic501, funny post. It's amazing to think that there are people who actually believe that the source of their power is their pussy. I though girls were suposed to mature faster than boys?! Unfortunately for knockout brunette, she will come to realize that by her mid thirties, those rules will change because her pussy will no longer be in demand. I hope someone who knows this girl takes a photo of that T-shirt to show her 10 years from now. I’d love to see what kind of shirt she wearing then, probably a frock.

Hi all,

It was interesting to read your replies guys.

Granted that most people did not read well into my post. I was reporting on my experiences with Western Women, that included British and Australian, and compared them to Latina and Eastern European women. I tried to report on my experiences with both.

I have NEVER yet shagged a USA woman, and did not claimed so in the post The closest I guess, was a Canadian (French) and the experience was not that bad.

Although, I a have travelled on varios ocassions to the USA, I was accompanied, thus did not had a chance to try pullng a US woman.
Perhaps I should add it to my hot-list of nationalities that I still have to shag.

It was very interesting to read about guys reporting that an American Woman never pays. Is it really so? She would never split the bill, even if she earns more than you? I lived in Wester Europe for many years, and even my long-term girfriends were happy to pay their half after years, of dating. In fact, personally I would only pay for a woman if I know that she has no money or earns considerably less than me. If she earns same as me, or more than me, I EXPECT 50/50 sharing of costs.

Interesting article about not marrying in general, even though it doesn't directly specify AW, it is obvious that they're the ones it makes reference to (and applies perfectly too).

By Fred Reed



Were a young man to ask me, "To marry perchance, or remain forever single?" I would, given the hostile circumstances today of law and love, urge caution. "Marriage is a commitment of several years of your life, plus child support," I would say. "Do not make it rashly."

The question is simply, "Why marry?" As a young man full of dangerous steroids, your answer will probably be, "Ah, because her hair is like corn silk under an August moon; her lips are as rubies and her teeth, pearls; and her smile would make a dead man cry." This amounts to, "I'm horny," with elaborations. It is as it ought to be. The race continues because maidens are glorious, and striplings both desperate and unwise.

Note, incidentally, that by the time October rolls around, corn silk is shriveled and brown.

Why marry, indeed? In times past, marriage occasionally made sense. Life on a farm required two people, a woman to work herself ragged in the cabin while the man carried heavy lumpish things and shot Indians. Later, come suburbia, the man did something tedious in an office and the woman did two hours housework and stayed bored for six. It worked, tolerably. In the Fifties, nobody expected much of life. It generally met their expectations.

And there was sex, though not enough of it -- the scarcity being the propellant behind matrimony. Back then, before the miracle of feminism, women had not yet commoditized themselves. A lad had to pop the question before he got laid regular. Women controlled the carnal economy and, in a world that was going to be boring anyway, that was probably a good thing. At least kids had parents.

Times change. Some advice to young fellows setting forth:

First, forget that her lips are sweet as honeydew melon (though not, of course, green). It doesn't last. One of nature's more disagreeable tricks is that while men are far uglier than women, they age better. Remember this. It is useful to reflect in moments of unguided passion that, beneath the skin, we are all wet bags of unpleasant organs.

Soon you will be a balding sofa ornament and she will look like a fireplug with cellulite. Once the packaging deteriorates, there had better be something to get you through the next thirty years. Usually there isn't.

Prospects have improved for the single of both genders. Sex is nowadays always available. If you don't marry Moon Pie, which would be wise, you may get another chance when she comes back on the market with the first wave of divorcees. It's never now-or-never. Getting older doesn't diminish your opportunities. As you gain experience, you will recognize the tides, the eddies, the whirlpools of coupling -- the urgency of the biological clock, the lunacy of menopause. Men by comparison embody a wonderful clod-like simplicity.

As you ponder snuggling forever with Moon Pie, compare the lives of your bachelor and your married friends. The bachelors come and go as the mood strikes them, order their apartments with squalid abandon, drive Miatas or Harleys if they choose, and live in such pleasant dissolution as is consonant with continued employment. The married guy lives in a vast echoing mortgage beyond his means, drives sensible cars he doesn't like, and loses his old friends because he isn't allowed to hang out with them.

Self-help books to the contrary, marriage does not rest on compromises, but on concessions. You will make all of them. Perhaps it doesn't have to be this way. But it is this way.

Moon Pie has only one reason for marriage: to get her legal hooks into you. She doesn't think of it in these terms, yet, and she has no evil intentions. She just wants a nice quiet home in the remote suburbs where she can live uneventfully, raise progeny, and keep her eye on you.

If you think surveillance isn't part of the contract, try going out late with your old buddies. Marriage is an institution founded on mistrust. If she thought you would stick around if not compelled, she wouldn't need marriage. She wants monogamy, at least for you and, with some frequency, for herself. She knows viscerally that you would prefer the amorous insouciance of an oversexed alley cat. You know it consciously. Marriage exists to control the male, until recently a good idea. Now, however, she can support herself, and doesn't need protection. She doesn't need you, or you, her.

She will, however, want to have children. Women do. At which point, God help you.

Given the schools, drugs, latch-keyism consequent first to working parents and then to divorce, and the cultural pressure on children to be slatterns and dope-dealers, reproduction is a gamble. You may not even particularly like them, or they, you. Nobody talks about this, but how many people do you know who hardly talk to their grown children?

And you've just tied yourself into twenty years of raising them.

The moment Junior enters wherever it is that we are, Moon Pie will have you screwed to the wall. She won't think of it this way, yet. She'll be delighted with the cooing bundle of joy, his little fingers, his little toes, etc. But divorce usually comes. The chances are two to one that she will file: Women are more eager than men to enter marriage, and more eager to leave it -- with the kids, the house, and the child support. It won't be amicable, not after seven years. You will be astonished at how ruthless she will be, how well she knows the law, and how utterly hostile to divorcing fathers the law is.

You don't understand how bad the divorce courts are. You probably don't know what "imputed income" is. You think that "joint custody" means "joint custody." Think again. Quite possibly you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar.

In short, marriage often means turning twenty-five years of your life into smoking wreckage. Yes, happy marriages exist (I personally know of one) and there are the somnolent marriages of habitual contentment or, perhaps, of quiet resignation. But the odds aren't good.

Permit me an heretical thought. In an age when neither sex economically needs the other, in which women do not need protection from wild bears and marauding savages, not in the suburbs anyway, perhaps marriage doesn't make sense, at least for men. The divorce courts remove all doubt. A young fellow might do well to stay single, keep his DNA to himself, pick such flowers as he might find along the way, and live his life as he likes.

Another interesting article by the same fellow:

Sex, equality & kidding ourselves

By Fred Reed



Men of today's older generation grew up in the chivalric miasma of their time, which held that women were morally superior to men, and that civilized men protected women against any available vicissitude. A corollary was that women needed protecting. So common has this understanding been throughout history that one may suspect it of being based in ancient instinct: In a less hospitable world, if men didn't protect women, something disagreeable would eat them, and then there would be no more people. So men did. And do.

Instincts have consequences, particularly when the circumstances requiring them cease to exist.

Because women were until recently subordinate, and in large part played the role of gentility assigned to them, men didn't recognize that they could be dangerous, selfish, or sometimes outright vipers. They were no worse than men, but neither were they better. Men believed, as did women, that women were tender creatures, caring, kind, and suited to be mothers. Males deferred to women in many things, which didn't matter because the things women wanted were not important.

When women came into a degree of power, it turned out that they were as immoral, or amoral, as men, probably more self-centered, and out for what they could get. Not all were, of course, as neither were all men, but suddenly this became the central current. This too followed lines of instinctual plausibility: Women took care of children and themselves, and men took care of women. It made sense that they should be self-centered.

These newly empowered women knew, as women have always known, how to wield charm, and they quickly learned to enjoy power. The men of the old school didn't notice in time. They deferred, and they were blind-sided. They gave gentlemanly agreement to one-sided laws hostile to men.

Political deference became a pattern. It remains a pattern. It probably springs in part from the male's instinctive recognition that, by giving women what they want, he gets laid. Between individuals this worked tolerably well, but less so when applied to abstract groups.

When women said they wanted protection against dead-beat dads, the old school fell for it. They were attuned to saving maidens and the sheltering from life's storms of white Christian motherhood. "Dead-beat dads" was of course that sure-fire political winner -- an alliterative slogan of few words that embodied a conclusion but no analysis. So sure were men that women were the kinder gentler sex that they never bothered to look at the statistics on abuse of children, or the track records of the sexes in raising children.

The romantic elderly male believed -- believes -- that women were the natural proprietors of the young. This led to laws virtually denying a divorced father's interest in his children, though not the requirement that he pay for their upkeep. The pattern holds today. Male judges in family law defer to women, almost any women no matter how unfit, and female judges side with their own. The demonstrable fact that women can and do abuse and neglect children, that a female executive clawing her way up the hierarchy may have the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake, that children need their fathers -- all of this has been forgotten.

The reflexive deference continued. Feminists wanted congress to pass a vast program of funding for every left-wing cause that incited enthusiasm in the sterile nests of NOW. They called it the Violence Against Women Act, and men deferentially gave it to them. Of course to vote against it, no matter what it actually said -- and almost no one knew -- would have been to seem to favor violence against women. A law to exterminate orphans, if called the Domestic Violence Prevention Act, would pass without demur.

There followed yet more male deference to female desires. When women wanted to go into the military to have babies, or a Soldier Experience, men couldn't bring themselves to say no.

When the women couldn't perform as soldiers, men graciously lowered standards so they could appear to. It was the equivalent of helping a woman over a log in the park, the legal and institutional parallel of murmuring, "Don't worry your pretty little head about a thing."

On and on it went. The aggregate effect has been that women have gained real power, while (or by) managing in large part to continue to exact deference and, crucially, to avoid the accountability that should come with power. A minor example is women who want the preferential treatment that women now enjoy, and yet expect men to pay for their dates. In today's circumstances, this is simple parasitism.

Today men are accountable for their behavior. Women are not. The lack of accountability, seldom clearly recognized, is the bedrock of much of today's feminist misbehavior, influence, and politics. Its pervasiveness is worth pondering.

A man who sires children and leaves is called a dead-beat dad, and persecuted. A woman who has seven children out of wedlock and no capacity to raise them is not a criminal, but a victim. He is accountable for his misbehavior, but she is not for hers. It is often thus.

Consider the female Marine officer who complained that morning runs were demeaning to women. A man who thus sniveled would be disciplined, ridiculed, and perhaps thumped. Yet the military fell over itself to apologize and investigate. Again, men are held accountable for their indiscipline, but women are not. Men expect to adapt themselves to the Army, but women expect the Army to adapt to them. And it does. The male instinct is to keep women happy.

Note that a woman who brings charges of sexual harassment against a man suffers no, or minor, consequences if the charges are found to be unfounded -- i.e., made up. A man who lied about a woman's misbehavior would be sacked. He is accountable. She isn't.

Yes, large numbers of women are responsible, competent, and agreeable. Few engage in the worst abuses, as for example the fabrication of sexual harassment. Yet they can do these things. A man cannot throw a fit and get his way. A woman can. Only a few need misbehave to poison the air and set society on edge. And the many profit by the misbehavior of the few.

People will do what they can get away with. Men assuredly will, and so are restrained by law. Women are not. Here is the root of much evil, for society, children, men and, yes, women.

What’s up Siesta?

I think the confusion may have come from your statement that
“Australian and British…basically do come from the same Anglo-Saxon culture tradition.” From then on you referred to the collective group as “Western Women,” which was understood to include AW according to your “same Anglo-Saxon culture” statement. Throw in the fact that the US is in the Western Hemisphere, & of course everyone assumes you were making statements about AW when you referred to Western Women, not differentiating between Australian/British & American Women. Now, something may have gotten lost in the translation. It is obvious to us that English is not your primary language (some of the members stated this in their response to you), so the misunderstanding is understandable.

As far as the horror stories you’ve read in this thread, more likely than not, they are true. Stay away from AW – stay away I say.

ILAS

This guy has written a number of very enlightened articles posted all over the internet, including those in this thread. Just look him using Yahoo.

"It was very interesting to read about guys reporting that an American Woman never pays. Is it really so? She would never split the bill, even if she earns more than you? I lived in Wester Europe for many years, and even my long-term girfriends were happy to pay their half after years, of dating. In fact, personally I would only pay for a woman if I know that she has no money or earns considerably less than me. If she earns same as me, or more than me, I EXPECT 50/50 sharing of costs."

Expect in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Now I know why I get laid so easily after date in Ozzie, most dudes pay only for their share of the meal, I always pay for the lady.

The difference is the sheila's appreciate it, they don't EXPECT it unlike the skanks here.

This asymmetry of payment is one reason why by the third date, you need to talk about the hereafter.

As in, "If you're not here after what I'm here after, you're going to be here after I'm gone."

I'm born and raised in the USA. One thing that has always astonished me more than AW-- is American men. I simply can't figure out why the average American guy breaks their backs over these often fat, greedy, socially unpleasant, women. Sometimes I don't really blame the women, I suppose any countries women would eventually begin to act like American women if they were surrounded by American guys. I simply think American guys bend over backwards, go way over the extra mile, on many different levels, to give AW an undeserved dose of self-esteem.

For example, last night I was at an American bar. I sat down next to a plump, plain, obnoxious, AW college girl. Nothing special-- believe me. Yet the guys were just tripping trying to talk to her. Buying her drinks and looking her as if she was the last women on earth, and so on. It was just plain crazy. Of course these AW often gain an unjustified sense that they are a hot commodity because the American guys treat them as such. Just another day of American guys giving undeserved self-esteem to an AW.

From a sociological, historical perspective, I find the entire AW phenomenon rather bizaree. Why America? Why over the last 50 years did gender relations take such a strange path in the US? Why have American men been so willing to allow women total equality in everything, yet allow them to play the innocent, helpless, princess card, whenever it suits their fancy?

While the roots to this question lie in geography and Puritan culture, I believe the rapid disembowelment of American male in recent decades is nothing less than pathetic. I can't figure out why American guys don't simply act more like Aussie guys, or South African guys. Gender roles are stronger in these countries, and men, and women, are happier because of it. That is the funny thing about AW, they have unintentionally made themselves miserable in their lust for power, and American men are partly to blame for not having the common sense to keep their silly whims in check. Even if an AW gets a high-powered job, I have met many that often feel lost in their personal life because many guys simply aren't attracted to women who behave like men. It is difficult for a women to act like a man in the business world, then come home and be a loyal, sweet, funny, sexy, wife. And believe or not, very few American women want to be alone, yet this is exactly what happens.

Stay cool guys, good posts lately,

NB

[QUOTE=New Bound]
I can't figure out why American guys don't simply act more like Aussie guys, or South African guys. Gender roles are stronger in these countries, and men, and women, are happier because of it. That is the funny thing about AW, they have unintentionally made themselves miserable in their lust for power, and American men are partly to blame for not having the common sense to keep their silly whims in check. ... It is difficult for a women to act like a man in the business world, then come home and be a loyal, sweet, funny, sexy, wife. And believe or not, very few American women want to be alone, yet this is exactly what happens.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent analysis, NB. I think you are totally on point here. American men feed the monster by prostrating themselves before these AW beasts, hoping to get a little piece of pie. But women are instinctively repelled by this type of pussy behavior from the male, even though the media constantly promotes the stereotype of the feminized male as the ideal companion.

End result - everybody loses.

So how did we arrive at this sorry state of affairs? These are great questions which need to be addressed:

[QUOTE=New Bound]
From a sociological, historical perspective, I find the entire AW phenomenon rather bizaree. Why America? Why over the last 50 years did gender relations take such a strange path in the US?
[/QUOTE]

Personally, the more I think about it, I believe that we have unwittingly disturbed some natural human social order. Homo sapiens have existed on this planet for eons. What the fuck happened in the last 50 years? Certainly there have been some matriarchical societies in history (albiet few in number and not very successful.) I fear that our nation - and the West - may have started down a path which leads to where no sane individual or group would want to go.

hey guys,

here's an absolutely awesome article by fred reed. when i read it i felt like someone had been writing about my own life. here it is.

marriage, horror, and susan reimer
take horror. it's a better bet.
july 14, 2003
were i to offer thoughts on marriage to young american men today, in these the declining years of a once-great civilization, my advice would be as follows: don't do it. or, if you do, do it in another country. in america marriage is a grievous error.
and why so? because of the chip. the attitude. the bandsaw whine of anger, anger, anger that makes american women an international horror. it's there. it's real.
you, a young man, may not recognize the chip if you have never seen normal, warm, happy women. if you are twenty-something and haven't been out of the us, you haven't seen them. they exist by the billion--in latin america, singapore, taiwan, malaya, china and, last i looked, france and holland. and of course not every woman in america carries the chip. none of them think they do. yet it is the default, the usual, what comes out of the box.
the following is a perfectly ordinary, everyday, bulk-lot example, suitable for poisoning a cistern:
"other than a 29-inch waist and a full head of hair, there isn't much to recommend the twentysomething male…he is living an extended adolescence -- an adult-olescence -- and every immature, irresponsible, self-absorbed thing he does is reinforced by the latest issue of his favorite men's magazine." (susan reimer, a columnist for the baltimore sun. i bet she goes out a lot.)*
hers is the attitude--and what they think of you. it is the defining trait of american women. exceptions exist, and they have my apologies, but they are few and no, sport, your sally probably isn't one of them. they're coiled to bite. as soon as problems arise in the marriage, they turn into susan.
susan reimer is what is out there, guys: bitter that no one wants her (as who in his right mind could?), sure that no one is good enough for her, never having grasped that those who would be loved must first be lovable. understand this: susan is america. some hide it better, springing it on you after the ceremony, but susan is the rule.
the susans do not like men. sometimes they actually take courses in disliking men ("women's studies"). yet they want to marry one and have babies. for them, the contradiction actually makes a kind of sense, because (and they know this, believe me) they will get the house, the children, and the child support. for you, it makes no sense. you will get raped in the divorce courts. you don't know how bad it is. don't do it.
a prime effect of marriage is backbreaking financial overhead: the excessive house in the prestigious suburb, the pricey but boring cars, all that. but if you don't fall into the trap, keeping your expenses down means you can live in alaska or overseas and enjoy existence. there is more to life than debt service. although these are bad times for marrying, they are extraordinarily good times for being single.
now, children. this is sticky. you may want them, or think you want them, or think you may want them. she wants them. my advice is to move to almost any country where english isn't spoken and women don't want their husbands to be the mothers of their children. any country inhabited by the chinese would do nicely.
incidentally, remember that it is never now or never. your prospects improve with time. at thirty-five or fifty you will be perfectly able to find a good woman if you know where to look. see above list.
remember also that these are not good times for having children in america. it is almost irresponsible. the schools are scholastically poor, drug-ridden, given chiefly to political indoctrination, and hostile to male children. the universities are little better. divorce is hell on children and their fathers, and nearly universal. the country lunges to police-statedom and isn't, i suspect, as stable as it might be. worse, worst, there is susan reimer. her name is legion, and she seeps everywhere, like the effluvium of unwashed socks.
further, there is no social duty to have children. some argue that the white population is in decline. tough. if the country chooses to make having kids undesirable, then let it decline. it is not your problem.
now, you might well wonder, why are american women carrying the chip? practically, it doesn't matter: they do carry it, and will continue. still, it is partly because from birth they are fed the notion that they have been oppressed, battered, cheated, deprived, harassed, used as sex objects, not used as sex objects, on and on. being rational, you are perhaps inclined to point out that never has a female population been less any of these things, but don't bother. it will have no effect. the chip is an emotional artifact to which they respond emotionally.
the bedrock of the attitude is that everything is the man's fault. wonders reimer, "what is the answer, especially if the 20- and 30-year-old male is such poor marriage material?" she does not wonder, "if i am such a grindingly awful termagant that men on three continents are crossing their legs and feeling queasy over my mere column, and won't come near me except in a kevlar bathysphere with a disinfectant system, maybe i'm doing something wrong. gosh. i wonder what?"
yet something more is going on, though one does not easily see just what. note that in recent decades we have seen the invention by women of bulimia and anorexia, which no one had heard of in 1965. men made them do it. at roughly the same time women began getting breast implants, which men also made them do, and then suing about it. in the same period they began having induced memories of being raped or satanically abused by their fathers. men again. the psychotherapy racket grew like kudzu, a sure sign of deep unhappiness over something.
all of this is recent. you have to be fifty to remember women who were resilient, sane, psychically strong and, within the limits of an often sorry existence, content. but whatever the answer, guys, the problem isn't yours.
spend a year overseas, however you have to do it. for smart, classy, just plain glorious women who often speak english, try singapore. argentina is splendid. many places are. you would be amazed. see what's out there before you marry a gringa with her inner susan, who will one day burst from her chest like one of those beaked space-aliens in the movies, dripping venom. they're death.

hope you all enjoyed reading it as much as i did, :)

rock

Hey Fellas:

Here's a little humor for you guys (at least I thought it was funny). Here's the link if you want to see the original website: [url]http://www.phillytalkradioonline.com/humor/marriage.html[/url]

Enjoy!

Being Married and Men vs. Women

Being Married.

I married Miss Right. I just didn't know her first name was Always.

It's not true that married men live longer than single men. It only seems longer.

Losing a wife can be hard. I in my case, it was damned near impossible.

A man complaining to a friend: "I had it all; money, a beautiful house, a big car, the love of a beautiful woman, then,pow! It was all gone!" "What happened?" asked the friend. "Ahhhh, my wife found out."

Wife: Let's go out and have some fun tonight. Husband: Okay, but if you get home before I do, leave the hallway light on.

How many men does it take to open a beer? None. It should be opened by the time she brings it to the couch.

A man rushes into his house and yells to his wife, "Martha, pack up your things! I just won the California lottery!" "Shall I pack for warm weather or cold?!" "I don't care, just so long as you're out of the house by noon!"

Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street bald and still think they are beautiful.

I haven't spoken to my wife for 18 months. I don't like to interrupt her.

A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle.

If your wife and a lawyer were drowning and you had to choose, would you go to lunch or to a movie?

A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he's finished.

Marriage is a three ring circus: 1. engagement ring 2. wedding ring 3. suffering

Before marriage, a man yearns for the woman he loves. After marriage, the "y" becomes silent.

A man meets a genie. The genie tells him he can have whatever he wants provided that his mother-in-law gets double. The man thinks for a moment and then says, "OK, give me a million dollars and beat me half to death."

A little boy asked his father, "Daddy, how much does it cost to get married?" His father replied, "I don't know, son, I'm still paying for it."

A couple was having a discussion about family finances. Finally the husband exploded, "If it weren't for my money, the house wouldn't be here!"

The wife replied, "My dear, if it weren't for your money, I wouldn't be here."

A man's credit card was stolen but he decided not to report it, because the thief was spending less than his wife did.

Boring husband: "Honey, why are you wearing your wedding ring on the wrong finger?" Bored wife: "Because I married the wrong man!"

First Guy (proudly): "My wife's an angel!" Second Guy: "You're lucky, mine's still alive."

Marriage is grand, and divorce is about 10 grand.

Married life is very frustrating. In the first year of marriage, the man speaks and the woman listens. In the second year, the woman speaks and the man listens. In the third year, they both speak and the neighbors listen.

When a man opens the door of his car for his wife, you can be sure of one thing: either the car is new or the wife is.

Before marriage, a man will lie awake all night thinking about something she said. After marriage, he will fall asleep before she's finished."


Men vs. Women:

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.

A successful woman is one who can find such a man.


The Style: Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.

Women somehow deteriorate during the night.


A man is a person who will pay two dollars for a one-dollar item he wants.

A woman will pay one dollar for a two-dollar item that she doesn't want.


To be happy with a man you must understand him a lot and love him a little.

To be happy with a woman you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.


Marriage: A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.

A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change and she does.


Men marry because they are tired.

Women marry because they are curious. Both are disappointed.


A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband, while...

A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.


A woman will always cherish the memory of the man who wanted to marry her;

A man, of the woman who he didn't.


There are two times when a man doesn't understand a woman - before marriage and after marriage

Husbands: Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her think she is having her own way, and the other is to let her have it.

Married men live longer than single men, But married men are a lot more willing to die.

Any married man should forget his mistakes - no use two people remembering the same thing.

The Battle: A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

For those of you who think Asian women are different, I direct you to the term "dragon lady." She is every bit a full blooded American woman. Freed from the shackles of her Asian roots she will exploit every opportunity to be his equal or better.

Those who appear sweet and differential are only manipulating behind the scenes. They make the male think he is in control while she wields power only Hillary Clinton and Nancy Reagan can appreciate.

Akibono, I think the acronym you used is key... Asian American Women. When the guys here contributed their positive comments about Asian Women, I THINK it was in regards to Asian Women who still live in their native countries, and therefore, do NOT have the predatory nature of American Women. HOWEVER, if you have observed OTHERWISE about the women who live in their native countries, it wouldn't be the FIRST (or the LAST) time I was wrong. Myself, since my recent trip to the Philippines, I've developed a HEALTHY attraction to them. From what I've been reading, Japanese and Korean chicks think they are at the top of the food chain and have a similar attitude to AW's. I'm still attracted to them, but wary now of the possible attitude. Next on down are the Chinese (some VERY hot flight attendants I saw on my trip TO and BACK from the Fils) and Filipinas. The BEST advice: nip any rebellion in the bud (tactfully) BEFORE it takes place and thrives.

Akibono, that was a great post, I totally agree. It is funny because this exact subject had been on my mind for some time.

Ok, question for the guys:

Question: What has a more unpleasant, bitter, stuck-up attitude, anger, and pent up aggresson towards men than an American women (born and raised in the US)?

Answer: A femi-nazi, "dragon lady," ( Asian female, born and raised in the US-- probably with Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese Ancestry).

This really is true from what I've seen. What is so interesting and fascinating is how AAW not only excude femi-nazi attitude and bitterness, but often seem to be in the vanguard and forefront of the entire war on men in America. In other words, taking a word from the Fred Reed article, Asian American women have a "chip" and "bite" worse than most white, black, and definately Hispanic women in the US. (born and raised in the US.)

However, native born and raised Asian women are typically very sweet, have good sense of humor, and generally hold men in reverance. The contradiction is striking.

True example, from when I was at my local university a few years ago. The AAW would put together these films about how American women had been oppressed, deprived, harassed, and used as sex objects by American men. Their films directed American women to stand up together and fight the exploitation by the media, culture, and in particular men. Then these big rallies would take place among the women that it was ok "to be 300 pounds" and other nutty messages that encouraged American women to behave like a femi-Nazi's. Anyway, I always thought it was interesting how the Asian American women were making the films, and leading the rallies, in the war against men. The white, black, and Hispanic American women were on the sidelines learning from them.

The typical dragon lady one should avoid at all costs in a relationship is -- someone like Lucy Liu -- from the Charlie's Angels movies. A total dragon lady. Maybe you would want a little one hour short-time, but make it a 1 hour limit. On second thought maybe you could do a Vegas style wedding with no promissory, and then see your attorney in the morning for the divorce.

Stay cool guys,

nb

Hey Fellas:

OK, I often hear that men in other countries treat their women rather harshly when compared to the way men in the US treat AW. Yet, women in these countries remain sweet & relatively submissive. These women will work & do pull their own weight, but they are also willing to accept a traditional feminine role.

So what are the men in Latin America, Asia & Africa doing that US men in are not? It has to be something more than child support & skewed domestic violence laws that is causing this power struggle in the US.

Any ideas?

ILAS

Funny you should mention her. I had her a bit farther down the ladder, but MY top Dragon Lady is Lisa Ling, the "journalist" formerly of "The View". The one or two times I had the misfortune of watching that show for a whole five minutes, it seemed she centered her "reporting" on "the oppression of women". Reporting on the oppression of women is fine, BUT she seemed to do so in a manner that exposed her glee at castrating men to the point where I was expecting her mouth to produce a heavy froth. Leeza Gibbons, is in the same league as Lisa Ling, although this particular subject is Asian Dragon Ladies.

Yeah, I forgot about Lisa Ling. She probably wins the award as queen of the Dragon ladies. I just love that name dragon lady, it makes me laugh just hearing it. I had had never heard that reference before.

To be fair, the average AAW is not that different from the average AW. The bottom line, if you like Asian women, go to Asia.

Stay cool,
nb

I accept the concept of multiculturalism as something that is not going to go away, therefore women like Lucy Liu and Jessica Alba, in my opinion are not Asian and South American, but are hardcore American women to the extreme. It's whats inside a woman's head, contributed by the society and culture that she lives in is the issue, not where her parents came from.

CBGB is correct. I understand that the US is a mixture of cultures & nationalities, but once you throw the "American" identifier behind it, it cancels out everything else.

Lucy Liu & Lisa Ling still look oriental & are classified as Asian-American, but they are no more Asian than Oprah Winfrey is African.

From some of the posts it has been implied when talking about American women, some posters mention "Western" women, when they say this they are referring to white women(using Western as a pc term) and lumping them all with American women. I totally disagree with this, American women, whether they are white, black, asian, native, hispanic, or anything else are all the same. As far as placing the blame on all Western or white women, the less pc term, this is bullsh*it. I have been to many Western countries in Europe and currently reside in Australia, all these countries are part of the "West", and have found that women in these places that I have visited contrast sharply with white American women as well as American women of color and AWs of other minority groups. I would take a good caucasian blonde hair blue eyed Swedish or Australian lady over an Asian American woman any day of the week. During the time I spent in New York, I met a lot of hispanic women, and I thought most of them were not friendly at all. When some guys talked to me about South American women I looked at them weird, I realized then(after visiting SA myself) that they were talking about hispanic women living in South America, not the USA. I think if you meet the woman of your dreams abroad, I will give you my congratulations, but stay with her in her home country, because when you bring her back she will change, she will realize who she is relative to a lot of the rather plain and ordinary AWs, and she will develop an ego.

Gentlemen,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was kind of under the impression that undesireable behavior and attitudes are on a continuum, with AW's the worst, followed at a (great)distance by Canadians (less so the native french speaker types), Aussies, Brits, and other Western European countries (e.g. Germany, Finland, Switzerland etc).

Also, I saw something greatly disturbing. I watched part of a documentary purportedly about a woman going to one of the former Soviet states (the Ukraine I think) to search for living relatives of her Grandmother. Locating them took about 20 minutes into the film, and the rest was mostly about attempts to start a feminazi movement there in the Ukraine. It was highly disturbing. I'm sure that by the time that something like that effectively takes hold there, I will be worried about things like not being able to chew a steak, and soiling myself in public, but I could be wrong too. The world could be doomed.

Short story, I swear it is true.

I was dating a black women in Panama a few years ago, and she stated to me one day, -- "why do American black girls have so much attitude? Are they really like that?" She then gave me an imitation of an American black girl based on what she had seen on TV. It was pretty hilarious with her putting her hands on her hips, and pretending to be really angry about everything.

My response to her was, "No, all American women are like that."

Yes, don't confuse United States women with western women. The women from mainland Europe are very pleasant in general, and of course a large % are very sexy.

United States women are androgynous, and typically lack grace, beauty, and humor. I'm not speaking about every women in the US, only the vast majority.

Based on my own personal experiences, I think African American women have the worst attitude of all AW. I generally have no issues with other black women from other countries or AW of other ethnic groups. Simply put, most women want a man to behave like a man. I tend to inter balance my relationships with real kindness and a take no bullshit attitude, this tends to keep women offbalance. I would not recomend this with an African American woman, because she might just cap your ass.

From the gist of the posts here, I was under the impression that "Western Women" (or Western-IZED Women) are the undesirables who have an overly developed sense of entitlement. They are the ones who would think nothing of making a man jump through multiple hoops under the guise that he will be rewarded for his time and effort, only to end up giving a reward DISPROPORTIONATE to the amount of effort put forth, or NO REWARD AT ALL. White women certainly don't have a monopoly on this description, as I have seen black women (and American Latinas) voice their demands as if it were a constitutional right.

Here's some good advice, if you run into the woman of your dreams while overseas in another country, its much better just to remain with her in her country than bring her back. One thing that is certain is that she will change, and depending upon the nationality, the change will occur rather quick. I have met women in Australia hoping that I would take them back to the States, these type of ladies I avoid, they maybe nice to me, but they are obvious visa hunters, besides it took a lot of effort and discipline for me to move there, I am not letting no woman take away the fruits of my labor.

[url]http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/04/homolka-monday050704.html[/url]
This babe is now out. She might be just right for a few of the AW hating losers. Worth a shot anyway. And she is - or was - open to ideas.

Domino, I knew you couldn't stay away from this thread for too long. How's Thailand?

Anyway, the story you posted is about a French speaking Canadian, so I wasn't initially sure why you posted it here. However, there is one interesting point about the story that does validate what we AW hating losers (your words) see all too frequently, which is society's assumption that women are not inherently evil but that any evil act of any women is somehow caused due to the influence of a man. This presumption is what leads the Canadian government to eagerly strike this deal with the devil, only to later realize their mistake. I just hope that the Canadians are smart enough to realize that it is this presumption that allows this type of behavior to perpetuate.

Think about it, if you tell your son to do his chores & you do not punish him when he fails to do them, do you think you son will do his chores? Would your daughter behave any differently? People will always do that which they are allowed to get away with. This is not only man's nature - its human nature.

Domino, I'm really surprised that you posted that story for us to read. Does this mean you are beginning to come around to the AW hating loser way of thinking?

Good to hear from you, Domino. Don't stay away so long next time.

ILAS

American Women Suck - I think Domino is starting to see this!

I found this to be kind-of curious.

My American Size Doesn’t Fit My Asian Clothes

By Thuy Ngo, Silicon Valley De-Bug. Posted June 27, 2005

A young Vietnamese American woman is medium-sized by American standards. But when she walks through the doors of her local Vietnamese store, she balloons to an "extra-large" -- and feels less beautiful, and less Asian.

I went out with my mom one night to the Asian plaza a little ways down from our house. I needed some dress pants for an occasion that was coming up. My mom said she knew of this particular Vietnamese store where she had shopped for pants.

The lady in the store was an acquaintance of my mom's. She handed me a pair of size small pants. My mom held the pants up to me, shook her head in disappointment, and asked for a larger size. We all finally settled on a Size XL: extra-large.

I felt so humiliated. Here I was with my mom, in this Vietnamese store, and she's explaining to me in Vietnamese something that roughly translates to, "Honey, you got too much junk in the trunk."

Vietnamese stores are like huge department stores condensed into one little room. They sell clothing, shoes, perfume, lotions, toys, calendars, undergarments -- the list goes on and on. The clothes are meant for juniors, in terms of fashion sense as well as size. They are brightly colored and meant to be very chic -- which they are, depending on who's wearing them.

I knew I'd gained a little weight, but this situation at the store was horrible. As I remember, I used to be a medium in Vietnamese sizes. I still am in American sizes. At 21, I'm 5'7" and weigh 130 pounds. These proportions are considered average for an American woman. But by Vietnamese fashion standards, my current dimensions are definitely not "medium."

This made me think that I simply am not Asian enough. American beauty standards may be harsh, but at least there is room for the plus-sized woman in American fashion. With 130 pounds being considered "extra-large," there is no room at all for the plus-sized woman in these Vietnamese stores.

That's me: the extra-large Asian. As a Vietnamese woman, I feel I am not Asian enough to shop in Vietnamese stores. Your question might be, "Why not shop at another store? Wouldn't it be easier?" I could, but why should I have to stop shopping at stores that carry my culture's fashions?

At first, I could not figure out what it was about wearing a size extra-large from the Vietnamese store bothered me so much. After all, the pants fit me the same as the Size 8's I gladly purchase at American stores. Then it came to me. "Small" means you are cute and adorable. Small means you are beautiful. Small means you are Asian.

My own standards have been somewhat distorted by hanging around my friends from the Vietnamese association at my school, with their model-like proportions. Everyone is so thin, and many are practicing careers as fashion models in the community by doing Vietnamese pageants. I consider myself healthy, but I will never be as thin as they are.

At the Vietnamese store, I was left thinking, "What am I going to do? I need pants!" I do not want to go on a diet. I do not want to join a gym. We average Asian American female folks ought to be able to shop at clothing stores that reflect our cultures without having to wear the "XL" tag -- if we can find clothes that fit us at all.

In the end, there was nothing else to do. I bought those pants. I was humiliated and enraged. My mom shouting "Her butt's too big!" didn't help. After we left, I told my cousin what had happened. She comforted me by saying, "Don't be ashamed. Booty is a beautiful thing."

PNS contributor Thuy Ngo, 21, is a writer for Silicon Valley De-Bug.

[QUOTE=Cyberdas][/QUOTE]Ha ha, that was funny.. :)

I have pretty much the opposite "problem". I have quite narrow shoulders, and size "S" shirts fit me best. And I am definitely not "small" per se.

And European "S" is usually smaller than American "S", I understand.

Don't listen to the pizza man, he sits in in his mom's living room acting as a troll on this discussion board topic. I am having suspicions that he is an American woman posing as a guy. Either that or he is unemployed and can't afford the international airfare and exotic vacations that us on this board can afford, so who is the real loser? I travelled the world, and much of my negativity towards American women is for the simple fact that they suck.

Also relevant is his sheer number of posts. Granted, not all of mine have been chock full of substance, but (in my estimation), the only way that someone could have that many (presumably over what, a couple of years) is to spew a lot of crap.

Pizza man kind of half way reminds me of CB's description-loser troll in mom's living room, and then also (unless it is all just a trollish put on), one of those Sensative New-Age Guys who believe that they are going to get somewhere with women because they toe the line and spout off about opression, feminism, etc etc.-and aren't smart enough to realize that AW's respond to this by soaking them for drinks, and then going off to bone a neanderthal.

I found out something that kind of depressed me. An old friend of mine who I had lost touch with for many years got conned into playing "white knight in shining armor" for (I'm fairly confident-haven't gotten the whole story) some slug and her multiple kids. He (great guy, smart and funny)of course never really had self esteem, and was probably thrilled beyond comprehension to have any woman accept him. Poor guy. All I can do is let him know that there are alternatives out there (like hot EE girls who don't care that you are 36 years old with a 44 inch waist), and hope that he comes to his senses some day.

B9K, your friend reminds me of the old game show "Let's Make a Deal". He "settled" for what he thought was the best he could get without taking the risk of going abroad and seeing what was behind the curtains of other countries. Now he's living with a third-rate skank appliance that he found behind curtain number One instead of owning the penthouse condo behind curtain number Two or the Enzo Ferrari behind curtain number Three. Poor guy... I just hope he gets fed up SOONER rather than later, and discovers whats out there...

If you want to know what the problem with many AW is, maybe look in a mirror. I went through some of CBCG's very many posts:almost all of them were on AW, the morality of skanking or German clubs. If Aussie women are so great, go out and fuck them, if you can, and quit complaining about women an ocean away from you. Get over the fact that AW rejected you for the loser that you are. Bart loser: your "logic: is that anyone who disagrees with you and has a lot of posts "spews out a lot of crap". Granted CBCG and other perpetual moaners on this thread of rejects does spew out crap but not everyone does.

iloveanalsex: The French Canadian woman had first been mentioned by Dickhead some weeks ago when an interesting discussion was, for once, taking place here. But then one of the retards stopped that. I just figure most guys posting on this thread are not worth it. They have hangups about women, and they are social retards who, lacking social outlets, have to come here to biatch about their failures, leaving the fields to their betters.
I sometimes mention this thread of losers to my friends and I almost always think of the guys who post here when I read about violent crimes against AW. Motive is certainly present. But hey, don't let me stop your hen's party. Biatch on.

I did not know about the previous discussion concerning the Canadian, so thank you for the follow up.

When you posted the story about the Canadian lady, I thought for a moment that you were coming around to our way of thinking. I guess I should have known better.

Hey Domino, you know it’s not too late to come over to the light.

Oh now I know who pizza man is, he is a homo from San Francisco that has full blown AIDS, and can't get butffucked by his boyfriend Sergio because he has AIDS induced lesions in his ass. Since he cannot get any anal sex from his buddy he has decided to be the faggot gofer for some AW feminazis. Yes its great to live in ocean away from American women. Oh whenever I see a walking human whale in Australia, she is almost 95 percent of the time, an American female tourist. I had the same experience in Germany, a fat American woman(after she nearly finished half of the breakfast buffet meant to serve a hotel with 100 guests) got into an elevator made for more slender Europeans, and got stuck in the door, rather than help her I laughed. Is Donald Trump a loser for marrying a Slovenian? Is George Clooney a loser for dating a European? Please, there are world class women in many countries of the world and I intend to shag as many as possible.

Only one way to deal with a troll - ignore it.

CBGB,

When you were in Europe, you must have been wearing fat blinders or something. I spent a large part of a decade there and have to say there are plenty of fat people. The US does however, seem to be leading the field.

CW

apparently obesity is an epidemic in europe as well as the us. here’s an article about a residential weight loss camp for children, or fat camp. however, note that the camp was fashioned after the us style camps, so it appears the us does lead the way in obesity. here’s the webpage: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/397323.stm[/url]

uk

fat camp opens its doors
critics of the camp say it could make children feel worse

britain's first residential camp to help obese youngsters lose weight has opened.
based on us 'fat camps', it caters for 40 children whose parents have paid up to £2,000 for a six-week stay.

on arrival at leeds metropolitan university, the youngsters had their height, weight and body fat measured.

one of the group is a 12-year-old boy who weighs 20 stone, while the average weight of the children is 13 stone.

they are to be put on a low-fat diet and taught how to moderate their eating.
they will also be encouraged to play different types of sport and and will be given cookery and nutrition classes.

camp director paul gately, 28, a former british junior athlete who has worked at similar camps in the us, said: "it's a holiday camp for kids with a by-product that they change their lifestyles and body shape.

"they might not lose any weight but they will have gained muscle and lost fat.

"children who are overweight tend to suffer a great deal of ridicule at the hands of their peers.

"this camp will raise their self-esteem so they can join in sporting activities without embarrassing themselves," he added.

camp under-subscribed

most of the children at the camp will stay for a month, some for the minimum two weeks and the rest for six weeks.

although 150 places were offered, only 40 have been filled.

mr gately believes this is because of the cost, which has been partly or fully-funded by the local authorities of just three children.

research shows that 9% of girls and 13% of boys are now classed as overweight.
similar camps in the us have helped children lose up to five stone in eight weeks under strict diet and fitness regimes.

pressure to look perfect

but there are critics who claim that such a summer camp is indicative of society's growing obsession with having the perfect image rather than informing youngsters about leading a healthy lifestyle.

child psychologist dr charlie lewis said: "although there are benefits to children staying slim, i wonder whether incarcerating children in such camps is not just another way of trying to get everybody to conform to the norm.

"parents who might think their children don't have the right look could see this as a quick way of giving them a makeover.

"they could treat these camps as teenage health farms expecting to have the children returned manicured, groomed and re-styled.

"i'm sure if i had obese children i wouldn't consider sending them to such a place. children change so quickly when they are growing up it might just be that they have puppy fat."

but mr gately said children attending the course had been hand-picked for suitability.

he said: "we are not talking about youngsters who are a few pounds overweight. those coming on the course have all been identified as being obese according to world health organisation guidelines.

"they will take part in a range of activities which encourage them to take up sport and exercise for their own long term health benefits.

"unlike the us camps we are not just aiming to get kids to lose weight. what happens over there is that they lose weight and then put it all back on again as soon as they go home.

"children at their camps are only allowed 1000 calories a day while our students will be allowed between 1300 and 2300 a day. the menu includes roast beef, chicken fajitas and cottage pie - so you can see we are not trying to starve the kids.
"parents will also be involved in an educational programme to help their children."
but professor nick finer, of the obesity research centre based at luton and dunstable hospital, bedfordshire, said: "you have to consider the psychological effects of sending your child away to such a place.

"society already discriminates against fat people and i'm concerned that children might see being sent to these camps as a punishment for being fat."

This is the sound of me not feeding the pathetic little troll.

[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]From the gist of the posts here, I was under the impression that "Western Women" (or Western-IZED Women) are the undesirables who have an overly developed sense of entitlement. [/QUOTE]

SM,

Did you mean Western-IZED or Western-SIZED?

Seems like the latter might be a more apt description of the large lovelies so common in America these days.

I guess if you bring a girl back to the states you have to worry about her becoming Western-sized as well as Westernized.

A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I LIKE that one, LS! Western-SIZED.... Hehehehehe.... that's gonna have me chuckling all day

I havent posted for over a year but after the last few weeks of being beat up i thought i would share some of the latest here from the EV of Manhattan USA.

I have a rommate here from Australia, a 33 yr old Chinese Australian woman. She is, to me, a sort of average looking woman, not terribly interesting although she does have an unusually large upper body. =-)

This woman, even as average as she is, has been propositioned at least a dozen times in just a few weeks. She seems to just expect to be fawned over and last night at the bar was a great example.

She had at least 3 men hanging on her more or less begging for some lovin. She again turned them all down.

I, on the other hand, sat there with my dick in my hand for about a 1/2 hour looking around for someone to talk to. Nada.

What would it be like to have so many options? I mean, i am a successful entrepreneur, with decent looks, great health, freedom, great family etc, etc, and i cant catch a fucking cold in this city.

I keep hearing that women outnumber men here? I have to be looking in the wrong places. Even the female dogs here have multiple multiple options for relationships.

WTF is going on?

That's why I left New York Fucking City, I now actually live in Australia, the women down under are alright by me, have treated me good. New York is a shitty place, its dirty, the people are aggressive and nasty, and you get ripped off for everything. Things aren't going well for you, then leave, who gives a shit if things didn't go well for you in NYC, visit other places, you won't even remember New York after you do.

I wish it were that easy CBGB, but when youve got your business set up here, family and friends its not easy to pick up and move to a place like CR. Although over the coming years I may do just that.

Another trend and characteristic of the AW that is a sure tip-off is their ability to cook. This woman here does not know how to cook. How is that possible? Think about it, it means she was raised in a home where things must have been chaotic. How would a mother not teach her own daughter how to cook?

When I meet a woman and she says her ability to prepare a meal does not go past ordering from a local place it is an immediate X in the negative column.

I think it has to do with the total rejection of the concept of the housewife that these women strive toward. The whole idea of Susy Homemaker is all but evil and with that the beautiful art of preparing a wonderful meal for someone else gets removed from the equation.

This manipulative "c-word" that is my roommate doesnt know how to cook at all. She wont do her laundry but yet shes got about 10 hopelessly fawning NYC losers just hoping for attention from her. Its sickening.

[url]http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0705/242170.html[/url]
[QUOTE=mister_smooth] Another trend and characteristic of the AW that is a sure tip-off is their ability to cook. This woman here does not know how to cook. How is that possible? Think about it, it means she was raised in a home where things must have been chaotic. How would a mother not teach her own daughter how to cook?,,, The whole idea of Susy Homemaker is all but evil and with that the beautiful art of preparing a wonderful meal for someone else gets removed from the equation.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I'm a good cook and so is Dickhead. Sorry but the idea of making you food does not enthrall me. Maybe sign up for a cookery 101 class and pick up a nice AW there. Or do you prefer your women pre packaged and pre loved?

Boy, out of all the Australian women that you could have ran into, you ran into a bad orange. I personally avoid the majority of Asian women in Australia. The only ones I have found to be decent come from Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore. You can't collectively label all Asian women as one entity, there are different cultures in the region, and some Asian women are ultra materialistic and as superficial as an upper class American woman, especially those from Japan, S. Korea, and HK. As far as getting laid, regular European Australian girls serve my purpose just fine, they don't seem to be as motivated to get into gold digging since these long time Australian women live in one of the most comfortable societies in the world . The theory of East vs. West is bullshit, I have met a lot of white women from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, South America, and Australia/NZ that are quite honest and don't bullshit with me and were the most honest and true women I have known. I never go for some broad from some ultra desperate country, those issues cloud her true reasons for her interest in me.

Did your roommate tell you why she left Australia in the first place & did she ever comment on her treatment while she lived down under? Just curious.

As far as cooking, Domino’s article in post #2589 is a good one. I think the article is dead on about all of the pressures pulling people out of the home.

Part of the reason is family life is not valued anymore. Remember when schools taught home economics? Not anymore, I guess the school board feels that home-ec is no longer important (however, passing out condoms, informing kids of their abortion rights & teaching kids about alternative lifestyles/alternative families – now that’s important). Throw in television, pop music, feminism & government, and the traditional family is being attacked from all angles, so it is inevitable that traditional activities would begin to suffer.

Another reason is people are too busy to do anything but work. People say they are too busy to exercise, too busy to sleep more than 5 hours a night, & so busy that they are too tired for sex. Now I don’t know if people truly are too busy, or if people have become spoiled & are just too impatient, but time wasting activities like cooking are no longer high on the list of priorities.

Anyway, thanks for posting Mr. Smooth.

Here are some articles about the busy lifestyles of modern people.

[url]http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Health/story?id=868775[/url]

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3053186.stm[/url]

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]you ran into some slant eyed reject.[/QUOTE]

Gee, and in a post such as this you come off as such a charming racist and so full of overall good will it's hard to imagine that all women, including those in NYC, don't simply flock to you!

I understand that this is the unofficial "trash women and get your overall bile out" thread, but even here the limits and guidelines of the forum should be observed. Your attack on Domino was also over the line -- whether you care for his posts or not, personal attacks of that ilk are really inappropriate.

I've spent time yakking in this thread in the past because at times there's very interesting discussion, but other times this ends up simply being a pool of catty whiners who simply relentlessly attack anyone with a divergent point of view. I recall a post a while back discussing the horrifying conversation someone overheard from a group of women at a table -- this discussion of late could make that one seem downright friendly. Lighten up, guys!

Joe, a friend of mine who visits Thailand three times a year, uses that term quite liberally. Anyway I'm trying to make a point on the East vs. West dichotomy. This thread was originally trashing American women, as they deserve it more than any other identifiable group of women. Some people have made additional insinuations about "Western" women, referring to European, Canadian, and Australian women. They use the term "western" as a pc way of mentioning white women. Some have used the collective label of Western women to include all American, Canadian, European, and Australian women as being in the same boat. This is highly inaccurate, as I have found some beneath the surface differences between all these groups. Some have tried to compared Asian ladies to Western women, I have actually met many caucasian women who are perfectly fine and turned out to be some of the best experiences I have had. I have met Asian ladies who turned out to be the biggest dragon ladies I have met, thinking they would use me as a bank account and a ticket to a visa to a more comfortable western country. I think the real problem women are American women, other than that only British women are almost as bad but less obnoxious than their US counterparts.

I've spent plenty of time in Thailand, and I've never used the term, so what the heck does your comment mean? Liberally used racist remarks are still racist remarks, and the use of them undermines rather than strengthens your point. [i]My[/i] point is that there are standards for discussion on the board, including not using racist terms and not engaging in personal attacks on other members, and I'm calling on folks here to keep them in mind.

As far as your point about Asian women -- if you think money and potential economic status isn't an important factor in basically all economically depressed areas you're fooling yourself. The fact that it's seen as a normal and understood thing in many Asian cultures simply makes it more apparent, as there's no reason for subterfuge. Keep in mind that in many cases daughters are sent into prostitution because it's seen as a viable way for them fulfill their obligation to support their family -- why would a foreign male be looked at as some sort of special case where economics is not a factor? Social climbing is world-wide -- I remember reading newspapers in New Delhi where families were hawking their "rich, handsome merchant-class" kids to "poor and plain" Brahmins for marriage as a way of moving future generations up the caste ladder.

I agree that there is a difference between Eastern and Western women, and I agree that there is variation between "all Western women" and American women, in the same way that there are differences between, say, Italian and Russian women, as cultural differences obviously come into play. This is hardly a deep point.

I changed the phrase "slant eyed reject" to " bad orange " to make it more pc. However the Asian women I was mentioning come from rich countries, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, these places are hardly economically depressed and match the big four EU countries in terms output. I have met nice women from the former Soviet bloc and they weren't so aggressive about money as their Asiatic counterparts. A Bulgarian woman I met in Germany, earned my trust so much, that I kept the doors of my apartment open and never had one thing of mine missing. She wasn't as materialistic as some Asian women I have met in the States.

One of the reasons I am iffy about Asian women is the way an African American friend of mine was treated by a Japanese waitress, its absolutely unacceptable, if the waitress was a waiter, I would have punched his lights out. The same friend of mine went everywhere else in Sydney and was treated good by the local ladies, a lot of women stopped him and tried to get his number, some wanted his autograph or to take a picture with him. If the same guy gets treated like a superstar by blonde hair blue eyed Australian women, I don't know what some slant eyed twat has against him. I have noticed on quite a few occasions that East Asian people are very racist towards darker skinned folks. This is the same friend of mine who was stationed with me in Germany in the early 90's, who also got plenty of good attention from German chics. I ain't racist, I got friends of many ethnic backgrounds.

Karla Homolka is not a French-speaking Canadian. She is from Ontario and is an English-speaking Canadian.

French Canadian women are okay by me, I thought they were among the best in the world.

The more I read CBGB's posts, the more I come to the conclusion that he just doesn't like women. I don't think its the case with most of the guys on this thread, but a lot of men who patronize hookers actually hate women despite loving sex. CBGB seems to fit that profile.

Travis Bickle.,,aka Civ2000

[QUOTE=Domino]If you want to know what the problem with many AW is, maybe look in a mirror. I went through some of CBCG's very many posts:almost all of them were on AW, the morality of skanking or German clubs. If Aussie women are so great, go out and fuck them, if you can, and quit complaining about women an ocean away from you. Get over the fact that AW rejected [/QUOTE]

Domino, Exactly! I've always noticed with me and all my friends that we quit complaining about the ex as soon as we're with a new woman and getting laid. If I am living in Australia and getting laid by beautiful women, the chances are almost nil that I'll post a hundred reports bashing AW. I'd get over it pretty quickly I'm sure.

These guys sound like a bunch of nerds who still haven't gotten over that Jr. High cheerleader that wouldn't go to the dance with them. They are middle-aged men with balding heads and beer bellies who are whining because some twenty-year-old won't date them here in the states. On the other hand, they refuse to date forty-year-old women that would probably treat them great. Hmmm...how strange a man complaining about American women, when they are the exact mirror image.

Of course the only reason a hot young American woman would date a guy like you is for your money. If they want to get laid they would pick a young hot guy. Its even that way in every country. Maybe in Australia there is less competetion for good-looking women. Anyway, none of the semi-good looking, and semi-successful guys I know in this country have any problem finding good women, and they certainly don't have to travel 8000 miles to get laid.

I can see maybe 1-5 posts complaining about American women: but when you do it everyday for months, a single word comes to mind: LOSER!!!

Travis Bickle

[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]I changed the phrase "slant eyed reject" to " bad orange " to make it more pc...

One of the reasons I am iffy about Asian women is the way an African American friend of mine was treated by a Japanese waitress, its absolutely unacceptable... If the same guy gets treated like a superstar by blonde hair blue eyed Australian women, I don't know what some [b]slant eyed twat[/b] (yeah, this is Mister PC all right --JM) has against him. I have noticed on quite a few occasions that East Asian people are very racist towards darker skinned folks. This is the same friend of mine who was stationed with me in Germany in the early 90's, who also got plenty of good attention from German chics. I ain't racist, I got friends of many ethnic backgrounds.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you ain't racist, except agin dem dam Asians, what make up more'en haff the world. Puhleeze! This has nothing to do with being PC, it has to do with following forum rules. Being "iffy" would be a major improvement.

And again, you show that you have little understanding of Asians and their perspectives regarding social mores. A dislike of dark skin is not at all uncommon in Asian countries, but it's not about race, it's about class -- many Asians are leery of getting out in the sun lest they get darker, and thereby look like farmers, that is, poor folk. And no one wants to look poor, even if they are, because that means you're from the lower class and are treated accordingly. There's no question that there is a strain of xenophobia among the Japanese and Thais, among others, but you could also take a look at the posts of Meatman, who's reported what a benefit it's been to him to be African-American in Thailand, as hip-hop culture, the NBA, etc., has put him into the class of rich, hip, and culturally significant, and he is treated accordingly. As an American, you are used to a largely classless (or at least transparently, based on money, classless) society, so judgements on how other places deal with issues of class and social status require stepping outside of your natural perspective.

Extrapolating from one Japanese waitress to an entire region is one of the reasons your perspective comes off as being suspect. If you want to just date blonde and blue-eyed Aussies, great, and if you want to have cogent discussions on things, even better, but enough already of the racist crap.

This was sent to me in an e-mail & I got a kick out of it (I know, I'm easily entertained). Enjoy

The Guys' Rules - Finally, the guys' side of the story.

We always hear "the rules" from the female side. Now here are the
rules from the male side. These are our rules!

Please note... these are all numbered "1" ON PURPOSE!

1. Men ARE NOT mind readers.

1. Learn to work the toilet seat. You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down. We need it up, you need it down. You don't hear us complaining about you leaving it down.

1. Sunday sports. It's like the full moon or the changing of the tides. Let it be.

1. Shopping is NOT a sport. And no, we are never going to think of it that way.

1. Crying is blackmail.

1. Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one: Subtle hints do not work! Strong hints do not work! Obvious hints do not work! Just say it!

1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That's what we do. Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1. A headache that lasts for 17 months is a problem. See a doctor.

1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument. In fact, all comments become null and void after 7 days.

1. If you think you're fat, you probably are. Don't ask us.

1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one.

1. You can either ask us to do something or tell us how you want it done. Not both. If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1. Whenever possible, please say whatever you have to say during commercials.

1. Christopher Columbus did not need directions and neither do we.

1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings. Peach, for example, is a fruit, not a color. Pumpkin is also a fruit. We have no idea what mauve is.

1. If it itches, it will be scratched. We do that.

1. If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," we will act like nothing's wrong. We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1. If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.

1. When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine...Really.

1. Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as baseball, the shotgun formation, or monster trucks.

1. You have enough clothes.

1. You have too many shoes.

1. I am in shape. Round is a shape.

1. Thank you for reading this.

Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight; but did you know men really don't mind that? It's like camping.

Okay, well back to the topic at hand. American women, to put it mildy, suck. I don't care if they're white, black, yellow, brown, orange(believe it or not I met a person with orange skin), blue, etc., whatever God they pray to, they are all the same($$$$) regardless of their ethnicity. Some posters I have noted had used the term "Western" women as a collective term to place women from all Western countries in the same boat. This is highly inaccurate, because I have met some rather open and friendly women from many highly affluent and technologically advanced Western countries. The facts are the facts, American women suck.

Here is a true story of mine.

Two years ago I dated a 35 year old American woman who seemed like she had it all: attractive, smart, friendly, talented, single, & no baggage. I could not believe that she was still single at her age & had never been married. She admitted to me that she dated a lot, but no guy had ever asked for her hand in marriage.

So, I asked her some questions.

She told me that wanted to marry a guy soon, then quit work & do hobbies. She didn't want children, at all. She didn't do any housework, at all. She said that she wanted her future husband to work & pay all her bills.

She said that if he wanted to quit work, stay home, & do hobbies, then "That would be a problem...I would have a problem with that." She said that she wanted a traditional household. Yet the only traditions she really wanted were male responsibilities (work, support her, & pay all the bills).

She would do nothing. No traditional female responsibilities (no cooking, no cleaning, no childbirth, no child raising, no second job, Nothing except sexual favors rationed out 1 to 4 times a month & oral sex once a year, on the guy's birthday). Wow! What a catch she was! After hearing all this I understood how she was still single at 35 years old.

I thought about her character, or lack of character. And, I dumped her the next day.

End of story.

Well that Chinese Aussie chick is out of my life what a nightmare.

Last night, i forced myself to watch a little Sex & the City, which to me typifies a lot of the problems in America. I wanted to barf at this show.

This show is written by gay men about hetero women. The difffernce is that men in general are more influenced by looks/esthetics than women...historically. It is stressed in this show, often subtely, that a man has to have a certain look. In one scene there was this 40 something dog of a blonde in a shower with what mustve been a gay teenage guy with big pecs, collegiate chin and a full head of hair. At one point he asks if he can shave this broad's p*sssy. he he. Only on tv....

Forget it if you have thinning hair (which most men over 35 yrs have) are a little overweight or arent a pretty boy.

I think this show manipulates the power of a relationship and instills a lot of stereotypes in younger women that they may not be aware of.

The male, "Big", as they call him was such a wimpy, tall and handsome, kiss-ass and i think that is what women expect now. They want a guy who will bend over backwards in all situations to appease the woman. Have a full head of hair and act like a wimp. This show is the beginning of the end.

My advice, New York and San Francisco are homo towns, and they are pretty much run by effiminate homos. Unless you are an anal raider, you are wasting your time living in either place. New York what a shithole.

What’s up Travis?

I thought your latest post, #2599, appeared to express an extraordinary amount of resentment. In fact, I was so intrigued that I searched some of your previous postings. There seems to be a striking resemblance between your past arguments & your recent condemnations. This is what I found:

***Then (post #2203/American Women: 03-31-05)***

[QUOTE=Travis Bickle 2] ...they are simply mirror images of American men.

This isn't meant to insult anyone here, but when I was twenty-years-old I did not pick up hookers. Why? Because I didn't need to. I could get all the young fresh meat I wanted. So, now that I'm approaching fifty, and still like to bang twenty-year-old girls, it does get frustrating that I can't just take them home like I used to. I could start bashing American women because one half my age won't go out with me, and say how wonderful some Chilean woman is because she will, but it doesn't change the fact.

I think if us guys were to chase the chubby fifty year old who goes to work everyday and is lonely like us, we wouldn't be bashing American women. We would find them great companions who weren't looking to break the bank. The problem with me is I just don't find them attractive (even though I'm a chubby, greying, fifty-something). I still chase the young girls and in the one in fifty times she actually wants to go out with me, quess what? She's after my money...Civ2000[/QUOTE]

***Now (post #2599/American Women: 07-13-05)***

…These guys sound like a bunch of nerds who still haven't gotten over that Jr. High cheerleader that wouldn't go to the dance with them. They are middle-aged men with balding heads and beer bellies who are whining because some twenty-year-old won't date them here in the states. On the other hand, they refuse to date forty-year-old women that would probably treat them great. Hmmm...how strange a man complaining about American women, when they are the exact mirror image.

Of course the only reason a hot young American woman would date a guy like you is for your money. If they want to get laid they would pick a young hot guy. Its even that way in every country. Maybe in Australia there is less competetion for good-looking women. Anyway, none of the semi-good looking, and semi-successful guys I know in this country have any problem finding good women, and they certainly don't have to travel 8000 miles to get laid.

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First let me say this - I AM NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST. However, it does seem to me that you may be harboring some latent psychological pain that has manifested in your writing. Mirror image is a recurring theme with you, which causes me to wonder when you created your last post, if you were writing to the members of this board or if you had a mirror image of yourself. The similarities are too coincidental to ignore.

Understand that I am not attacking you, Travis. I just know that our experiences, even the subconscious ones, have a way of showing up in the things we do today. When I read your last post, I detected a lot of personal hurt as opposed to outward hostility & I’m merely trying to understand the source of your resentment.

I do enjoy the open exchange of ideas & I thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope it will continue.

ILAS