American Women

RN... If your ex doesn't pay support, and doesn't really care about the kids, then why can't you have the judge declare him as having abandoned them and rescind the travel ban? Besides, what happens if you win a contest for a trip to the Great Barrier Reef and the kids can't go?. That hurts them as they are unable to travel, see new sights, and learn about the world. Not only has this judge taken away your freedom, he has taken it from the children as well. Perhaps the court needs to be reminded of this.

The corrolary to your excellent point, FedUp, is that men also don't know what to do with women having power. This thread, when it's not focused on physical details, is often an illustration of that fact. And the other problem is that guys truly do get mixed signals on being chivalrous, etc. I've opened and held doors for people behind me all my life, and offered to carry things, for both male and female, regardless of age, as I was taught it was simple politeness. Although things have thankfully lightened up somewhat in the past couple of years, I still get far worse response to those acts by a certain percentage of women (primarily, I might add, those in whom I'd have absolutely no interest.) But let's face it, society at large and this board as well defines women as targets, and they often are exactly that for unwanted attention (something men have less problem with, though far from totally -- and I could tell some stories on that) as well as violence, so some degree of hostility/standoffishness is understandable.

I think alpha males still do fine -- it's those who aren't necessarily the leaders of the pack who are having real trouble as they've been told they can't follow that alpha example anymore, and there's not a model that satisfactorily replaces that one for all concerned at this point.

Joe,

re: What you said about getting a bad response from women when you hold the door open for them, etc...

It's not like that here. I read your statement and really thought about it, and it just doesn't ring true at all for my city. People here, male or female, hold doors open for each other and help with heavy boxes in the carpark and give way to each other (voluntarily) in peak hour traffic. When somone breaks down in the middle of the road, five strangers jump out of their cars to help push it out of the way. If you trip over in public, someone will help you up and ask if you're ok.

What I'm getting at is...is it really a matter of chivalry being frowned on, or is it that Americans have come to a point where they just don't interact with each other any more? One of the things that Aussies who have been to big cities in the US always comment on, is that "Americans can't/don't look each other in the eye". I was just wondering whether maybe the empowerment of women and the changing gender roles have less to do with it, than the overall attitude Americans apparently have to being "intimate" with strangers. Do women actually get SCARED when a stranger holds the door open for her, thinking that perhaps he has some ulterior motive? Are men afraid that if another guy helps him with a heavy box, that he just may run off with it?

Please don't take this comment as an insult...I realise I'm making gross generalisations on a country I have never even been to, but what do you think? Is it chivalry that you've lost, or is it human contact in general?

a few days ago, i was approaching a newpaper vending machine, at angle, while a woman was approaching at an opposite angle at about the same speed. as i got a few feet from the machine, and she was the same few feet from the machine, i gestured towards the machine and said, "ladies first."

"what's that got to do with it?" she snarled, with a real nasty look on her face.

i should have said, "i'm sorry, i meant cunts first," but i didn't. i don't think fear of being robbed is what's going through some women's minds when i hold doors open for them. i think it is the whole equality thing.

if the same situation arises again, though, i'll do the same thing. i do agree that aussies are much friendlier and politer than the average american, in my experience.

You know, Dickhead, that really pisses me off. Those women are totally f*cking things up for the rest of us. I could be wrong...because I was born well after the the bra burning days...but I honestly don't think that's what our "foremothers" had in mind when they demanded equality.

I always thought the fight for equality was about human and civil rights. The right to vote, the right to work outside the home, the right to equal pay for equal work. If I don't get the job it should be because I was not capable, not because I was not male. I should be allowed to manage my own money within a marriage. All the civil liberties that the white male took for granted should be mine as well. But I do NOT want to BE a man. Which idiot decided that ladies didn't want to be called ladies any more? The same idiot that told men to stop opening doors for women?

I'm not sure who to blame for this really...the feminazi man-haters or the men themselves. Yes, I have heard women say that they are offended by being called "girls" and that consider a man offering his assistance to be patronising. BUT, I have also heard men say "If she wants equality in the workplace, then she can ask me out/pay for dinner/buy me gifts"...what does that have to do with equality in the workplace? Women have gone on a power trip and started milking feminism for all it's worth, and men have got bitter and twisted and started using feminism against us.

Personally, I love it when a man says "ladies first". I don't expect it or demand it of course, but it's sweet to hear it. Would the woman at the newspaper vending machine preffered you to have said "Back off b*tch...I was here first"? There are women like me all over the world wanting to meet one of yesterday's "true gentlemen', and it's women like her that are turning them into assholes.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN: [i]" Which idiot decided that ladies didn't want to be called ladies any more? The same idiot that told men to stop opening doors for women? "

Yeah, pretty sure it was the same idiot. DH

"Yes, I have heard women say that they are offended by being called "girls' "

I never, ever do that. You do, though. And if you do, wouldn't that encourage others to do so to? DH

"BUT, I have also heard men say "If she wants equality in the workplace, then she can ask me out/pay for dinner/buy me gifts"...what does that have to do with equality in the workplace?"

Well, nothing, but it still sounds like a good idea to me. :) DH

"Women have gone on a power trip and started milking feminism for all it's worth, and men have got bitter and twisted and started using feminism against us."

Agree. DH

"There are women like me all over the world wanting to meet one of yesterday's "true gentlemen', and it's women like her that are turning them into assholes."

YESTERDAY'S???!!? :( DH

Plus also too additionally besides, how's come every time I'm in a relationship I spend way MORE on her Christmas/birthday/anniversary/just to surprise you gift than she EVER spends on mine? Even the relationships where I make the same or even LESS than she does? Not that I'm an extravagant gift giver, either.

Partially answering my own question: none of the women I've been in relationships have been able to handle money. But that is no excuse. They could learn, same as I did.

LOL!! Sorry babe...perhaps I should say, the gentlemen who yesterday were appreciated but today are frowned upon. Forgive me?? ;)

As for me calling women "girls"... I am getting all too close to being thirty years old. I LOVE still being called a girl! Think I'm gonna shag a guy who calls me Ma'am?? LOL (Unless it's said in a long, slow Southern drawl of course. Mmmmm.) Women who find the word girl patronising are just looking for any old excuse to argue, if you ask me. 'Spose it depends on how you say it though. If you said I couldn't do something "because you're just a girl" you would have to duck flying objects...

There's a tip to successful gift giving, that should save you a shitload of money as well. (Granted, this will not work on shallow, materialistic women, but if she's that bad...why are you with the selfish cow anyway???) The tip is...forethought.

Sure, we all like expensive shiny things, but to me those type of gifts say that you're rich...not that you necessarily love me. What would be better than getting a brand new BMW for my birthday?
* Taking me for a picnic lunch in the park, at the exact spot where we met five years ago
* Getting the DVD of the movie that was playing at the drive-in in '88, that we missed 'coz we were shagging in the back seat
* Organising a babysitter, running a bath and lighting candles, and surprising me with a night alone together when I get home from work
* ANYTHING that tells me that our time together means as much to you as it does to me.

That sort of thing just melts my cold little feminist heart. :)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you still have to spend more than $10 on my birthday present.

What...like free sex isn't enough for you?? *cheeky grin*

Although I do think that in the larger cities Americans can be more distant and have less interpersonal contact, I think in many ways that's a byproduct of cities. I see it less as I move out of the larger places. The bottom line is that I don't get the same negative reaction from men if I hold a door, or the elderly, or kids. Generally, I get warm thanks, occasionally a bit of conversation or banter, either of which is a welcome payoff for a slight act and which helps the day go by more pleasantly. But an unfortunately high percentage of women come up with the same reaction Dickhead describes -- and I'd hazard that every American male has felt the sting of having their polite gesture rebuffed at one point or another. If politeness is not either returned or accepted it will eventually cease to exist, and what does [i]that[/i] have to do with equality? And let me be clear that I'm not making a blanket statement -- this is not nearly half of women who have this reaction, but it's still a significant enough percentage that it's a trend as opposed to a series of isolated incidents.

No disagreement on your gift approach from me, RN, as it generally matches my approach, but I also know guys who have been called cheap bastards by their girlfriends for doing exactly those kinds of things as opposed to coughing up an expensive bauble that can be shown off.

the rudeness from women is most likely from the mistrust that they learn from living in a big city environment. there are more reported crimes in big cities than in little suburbab townships because of the bigger media influence in the cities. women are told to trust no one and they all believe that men are after them for just sex and that men hope to be polite to them to get into their pants. the media is influenced by feminism and prudity in many ways. the media never shows good things happening when a man holds the doors but they show all crimes in which a courteous gesture has an alterior motive like a man holding the door and then pulling a knife and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] the woman in the rooftop of that apartment building.
the rise of feminism is also another factor. feminism always stresses the historical abuse of men to the women. it is like blacks hating whites today because they haven't forgiven them for slavery. in the same way, feminist nazis stress unforgiveness to men and therefore to hate men and take advantage of the laws that favor women today. these same unforgiving, spiteful feminist nazis are the ones that snicker at you for being courteous. they also think that by a man being courteous to them is offensive and that the man thinks they cannot help themselves. this is their interpretation of courtesy. if that is the case then let the door go and make them catch the door so they can push it open themselves. this will make them a lot happier.

Sex is never free for a man RN!

There is some bullshit out here on this opinions board. Let me say this...after living in Los Angeles for most of my adult life: women in this town are bitches, plain and simple. I finally have a girlfriend without the attitude, or the belief that men owe her something (mostly money). They feel you should treat them like a princess, and i don't mind doing that, but they should not EXPECT it! It should be a welcome courtesy from a man who cares about them.

I don't care WHY they do it, it's a plain and simple fact that many of them do and that is sad. I have had hard bumps on my own life, but that didn't make me a cynical bastard.

By the way, my girlfriend (the one without the attitude) is a foreigner. This says something about American women, at least the ones in LA.