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  1. #733

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by BJtemp  [View Original Post]
    Guangdong or Guangzhou I am not very familiar. My turf is in Shenzhen. In Shenzhen, they are in most of the inner city villages. Sha Zui is one of them; Sha Wei, Shang Sha, Xia Sha, Hu Bei, Xiang Xi all have them. My home village is one most people are not familiar: the Qing1 Qing4 New Village at the intersection of Bao An Nan Lu and Hong Gui Lu.
    I am familiar with most of those neighborhoods. I lived in SZ from 2001-2004. Most recently, I've been to Sha Zui, Shang Sha and Hu Bei and did not find anything either. I am a white guy so when I am walking around it should be obvious to the mamasans and papasans why I am there. I did not find any action last fall.

    I have seen the mamasans around the Panglin / Sunshine Hotel and have been offered girls from them and WeChat is full of P4 P action but they are asking 1,000 RMB and will settle for 400-600ST if you bargain. I did not get any offers around the Shangri-La like it used to be.

    Many of the massage / sauna places in Luohu are offering HJ or BJ for around 300-400 RMB.

    I will try some of the other areas you suggest when I am next in SZ but for now they are keeping me out of China for political reasons.

  2. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by BJtemp  [View Original Post]
    Guangdong or Guangzhou I am not very familiar. My turf is in Shenzhen. In Shenzhen, they are in most of the inner city villages. Sha Zui is one of them; Sha Wei, Shang Sha, Xia Sha, Hu Bei, Xiang Xi all have them. My home village is one most people are not familiar: the Qing1 Qing4 New Village at the intersection of Bao An Nan Lu and Hong Gui Lu.
    Excellent report!! Thanks for posting this.

    I was in Shenzhen a few times last year, and I RTFF, I did my own exploring, and I asked around, but I could find nothing. The super frustrating part is that I saw very hot outcall WGs coming into my hotel every night. One was waiting for her John at the elevator and I was just about to tell her to come to my room instead, but I chickened out. So, there is outcall action available, but I just didn't know how to find it. Contacted some local senior ISG members, and they all told me SZ is dead. So, I just resorted to calling the agencies that I found online. Most of the profiles looked fake, and others asked for a deposit before they came. I finally found a real girl who was willing to come over, but she charged 2000 rmb per hour.

    I too miss the old SZ. I was there in 2001/2002. If memory serves me correctly, I think there were only 2 decent hotels there at the time. I could just order a WG from the hotel room service. FS was something like 100 rmb, which was still 5 x more than the amazing breakfast buffet.

    Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to post that excellent detailed report.

  3. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by OldAsiaHand  [View Original Post]
    Would you mind sharing more exact details where we can still find 150/ shot in SZ or other small towns in Guangdong? I've been in more small towns and poorer neighborhoods than I can count (Remember the catacombs in CP; 30 RMB ST in the day) and, as far as I can tell, the low end is all shut down. Sha Tsui still had a few mamasans around a couple of years ago but I couldn't even find them last fall. If you don't want to post, you can PM me with details.
    Guangdong or Guangzhou I am not very familiar. My turf is in Shenzhen. In Shenzhen, they are in most of the inner city villages. Sha Zui is one of them; Sha Wei, Shang Sha, Xia Sha, Hu Bei, Xiang Xi all have them. My home village is one most people are not familiar: the Qing1 Qing4 New Village at the intersection of Bao An Nan Lu and Hong Gui Lu.

    Even though enforcement has not let up since 2014, the mamasan and papasan still have to make a living. Life has go on, just that the business is now more discreet.

    Gone are the days where the business was conducted in public and blends into the community. Now the girls work out of hotel rooms in hearby hotels such as 7 Days. Mamasan and Papasan are on the streets around the old establishments scouting for customers; and once a connection is made, the mamasan or papason will tell you where to go.

    I recognize all the mamasans and papasans in my village because I was their their customers for many years. I know them so well, a couple of years I even had the year-end feast with them and the girls who did not to go home for the new year. So how would a stranger like you spot who are the mamasans and the papasans? This is more of an art than a science.

    You can go starting afternoon till late night, but best time might be around 7 pm just after dinner. You should be looking for middle aged men or women standing on the street for no apparent reason, or slowly strolling the street. But they are not completely unware of the surrounding; just the opposite they will be constantly looking left and right at the passing people, trying to spot potential customers. I think they will know what you are up to when they see you. They do this for a living. Many of them carry a shoulder strap purse.

    You should try to stroll slowly on the street, and make casual contact with people fitting the above description. How do I describe this eye contact. Perhaps like when you look at someone you might have known from before but are not sure. In another word, a little more eye contact than completely random and incidental. Better yet, turn your head and make the eye contact. A mamasan or papasan likely will approach you at that point.

    I am not in SZ now, but every couple years I go back, they are there. Life has to go on.

    This new model is not as enjoyable as before, where everything was completely public. You cannot really see and choose the girl because there is only one in the room (mamasan / papasan do ask you what type of girl you like so they decide for you). It is just not as carefree an experience. But if you have nothing else, this works.

    I now find the same experience (and same price point!) in Jakarta. Check out the Jakarta report. Good luck with your hunt.

    The good old days in Shenzhen:

    https://s7d8.turboimg.net/sp/b27affe...842b.jpg?61561

    https://s7d8.turboimg.net/sp/94230db...rl_5.jpg?68773

    https://s7d8.turboimg.net/sp/3000404...reet.jpg?11673

    https://s7d8.turboimg.net/sp/f22efe4...i_2c.png?30099

    How we play in Jakarta now:

    https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/2540c0b...0722221534.jpg

    https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/318618e...724224110c.jpg

    https://s7d7.turboimg.net/sp/32df476...0723234702.jpg

  4. #730

    More details?

    Quote Originally Posted by BJtemp  [View Original Post]
    Foreigners often get ripped off in China (or anywhere, really). In Southern China definitely there are plenty of 150/ shot opportunities. These are located in smaller towns or poorer neighborhoods of the city. Hard to find for foreigners, but if you know where to go they are there. Even in Shenzhen's Luo Hu district they are there! But they have been more discreet after the government enforcement in 2014, that still has not let up.
    Would you mind sharing more exact details where we can still find 150/ shot in SZ or other small towns in Guangdong? I've been in more small towns and poorer neighborhoods than I can count (Remember the catacombs in CP; 30 RMB ST in the day) and, as far as I can tell, the low end is all shut down. Sha Tsui still had a few mamasans around a couple of years ago but I couldn't even find them last fall. If you don't want to post, you can PM me with details.

  5. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by OldAsiaHand  [View Original Post]
    It's been awhile since I've posted on the China board. I moved back to the USA several years ago after over 20 years living in China. I thought I would chime in after seeing Intransit's post which brought back memories of the old days. He may remember meeting me at one of Sammy T's get togethers in Beijing.

    IMHO, the days of cheap sex are over in China. All of the low end is gone. I still maintain a home in Guangzhou and travel to China frequently. The cheapest I have been able to get was 600 RMB from the mamas in Luo Hu in SZ last fall. Most ST starts at 1,000 RMB and I have friends that are paying as much as 3-5 k LT.

    Just my POV.

    OAH.
    Foreigners often get ripped off in China (or anywhere, really). In Southern China definitely there are plenty of 150/ shot opportunities. These are located in smaller towns or poorer neighborhoods of the city. Hard to find for foreigners, but if you know where to go they are there. Even in Shenzhen's Luo Hu district they are there! But they have been more discreet after the government enforcement in 2014, that still has not let up.

  6. #728

    Gone

    It's been awhile since I've posted on the China board. I moved back to the USA several years ago after over 20 years living in China. I thought I would chime in after seeing Intransit's post which brought back memories of the old days. He may remember meeting me at one of Sammy T's get togethers in Beijing.

    IMHO, the days of cheap sex are over in China. All of the low end is gone. I still maintain a home in Guangzhou and travel to China frequently. The cheapest I have been able to get was 600 RMB from the mamas in Luo Hu in SZ last fall. Most ST starts at 1,000 RMB and I have friends that are paying as much as 3-5 k LT.

    Just my POV.

    OAH.

  7. #727
    The migrant worker bit of the economy may never recover from Covid. A lot of service industry people, including ayis and others who worked for foreigners, are simply not returning. They are of course people too and have human needs. Also, we may or may not see them the way they are seen by others in the society, meaning that foreigners may treat them better and not see them as being on the lower rungs of the labor ladder. Then again we're only really talking about sex here, recreational or otherwise.

    I had a similar experience with a service apartment some time ago. There was a massage service in the basement, and they made it clear that everything was available. I think I had six different girls from that service. The funny thing was that the woman who gave the best massage wasn't into the extras, so I didn't ask her, not even for a happy ending. She used to put massage oil on her knees and go to work on my back. Sorry, I'm getting carried away.

    I'm still a big fan of the MILF after-market in big cities. There are a lot of late 30 ish, 40's women, they've had their kids, they don't work, and they're bored. This usually requires speaking a bit of Chinese but depends on the city and the area. Can be a good source, especially for people who don't work in an office every day, but of course if it doesn't work out then you may awkwardly run into that person regularly until she or you move away.

  8. #726

    Exactly!

    Your experiences are very similar to my experiences. I honestly think everyone should try this. You won't find young stunners, but the passion is real.

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanMan  [View Original Post]
    That is certainly true and it reminds me at when I used to live in China in a serviced apartment in a hotel that also offered legit massage services without extras. One of the ladies providing in-room massages was in her thirties and not bad looking, so I was friendly and after some massages I*offered to massage her and I began teasing her a little. She told me that she was married, but although not seeing her husband often she was reluctant. Well, initially. After some more interaction, we got intimate and she was clearly in need of some male attention, and she gave it for free. But being a good woman, after about two months she began asking for financial support. I ended the story as I had found another freebie by that time. That one was a shop assistant in her forties, very good in shape and horny as hell as she was divorced with no one taking care of her needs. After a while, also she began asking for me to support her rent, for 3000 RMB a month I could have had all the fun I wanted, but I had found another regular by that time. But that is a story I may tell at another time.

    Lonely women are the best in bed, they may not have had the training and skills their professional counterparts have, but their passion is real. My only suggestions for this kind of setup are that you should take some care, don't pick women from shops near you (you may run into them with another girl at your arm), and don't let it going on for too long. In their eyes, you may not only cater to their physical needs, but you cure their loneliness, and so they are likely to fall in love with you, so you will break her heart. Or at some point her husband may find out and you might be in serious trouble. But a promising hunting ground these working ladies are!
    .

  9. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwestern  [View Original Post]
    ...This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. ...
    That is certainly true and it reminds me at when I used to live in China in a serviced apartment in a hotel that also offered legit massage services without extras. One of the ladies providing in-room massages was in her thirties and not bad looking, so I was friendly and after some massages I*offered to massage her and I began teasing her a little. She told me that she was married, but although not seeing her husband often she was reluctant. Well, initially. After some more interaction, we got intimate and she was clearly in need of some male attention, and she gave it for free. But being a good woman, after about two months she began asking for financial support. I ended the story as I had found another freebie by that time. That one was a shop assistant in her forties, very good in shape and horny as hell as she was divorced with no one taking care of her needs. After a while, also she began asking for me to support her rent, for 3000 RMB a month I could have had all the fun I wanted, but I had found another regular by that time. But that is a story I may tell at another time.

    Lonely women are the best in bed, they may not have had the training and skills their professional counterparts have, but their passion is real. My only suggestions for this kind of setup are that you should take some care, don't pick women from shops near you (you may run into them with another girl at your arm), and don't let it going on for too long. In their eyes, you may not only cater to their physical needs, but you cure their loneliness, and so they are likely to fall in love with you, so you will break her heart. Or at some point her husband may find out and you might be in serious trouble. But a promising hunting ground these working ladies are!

  10. #724

    Migrant workers

    A few years ago, I overheard my ayi (house keeper) telling her friend on the phone that she had a local boyfriend, even though she was married with a husband and kids back home. This made me realize that many of these migrant workers must be hungry for attention and affection. So, I started hitting on them, such as waitresses, department store attendants, janitors, security guards, etc. They are generally quite receptive! They are even surprised that a foreigner would be interested in them. I guess it's not that surprising, as they probably have really low self esteem. I've had a couple of affairs with them, and it's free as long as you have a place to meet. These gals aren't lookers of course. And we are talking about gals in their 30's and 40's. But they are horny as hell. I am currently working on one right now. She already says she likes me. She has a husband and 3 kids back home. Just a friendly FYI.

  11. #723

    I would not have thought of China as a sex tourism destination. Maybe Wuhan? Harbin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Igmc32  [View Original Post]
    Which city is the best for mongering? I have not booked my flight yet so I'm free to choose anywhere.

    Is the best Shanghai, Guangzhou, HK or elsewhere? I read about crackdowns in Shanghai, but I read Shanghai has more 8's, 9's than HK. I'm clueless, please enlighten me!
    I've not spent in any time in Shanghai, so I can't speak to it.

    I used to live in Guangzhou. Every message parlor, spa, sauna place I ever went to would give me a long spiel about their menu and services, but basically what it always came down to was they were asking for a lot of money for not full service (some were asking exorbitant amounts - 3000 yuan. For what essentially amounted to roleplay massages and where they wanted to be paid upfront--Fuck that). They would eventually say full service is not allowed in the city, so basically everything was pushed underground which made everything more expensive because there's more middlemen. I never went to Kama when I was there. Otherwise most night clubs or hotel bars or even some regular bars would have some working girls there looking for customers. Generally speaking, foreign students from Africa who worked part time were the best value because there weren't so many agents involved, and Chinese women generally wanted extra for servicing foreigners. Areas like Taojin you might see street walkers time to time, or touts outside foot massage parlors asking if you wanted anmo or fuckie.

    Hong Kong: Google isn't blocked, so you can just Google Honk Kong escorts and get accurate results, but most of these are high end, so expensive and outcall. There's a bunch working girls at the night market on Temple Street standing on doorways asking if you want service, so inexpensive service is easy to find. My white female pointed this out when we were buying souvenirs there, and then I saw they were everywhere. I did not partake, so I don't know how much it costs. (Is there a Hong Kong thread?

    Beijing: things are pretty straightforward there. Pick up bars, lots of listings in the classified thread, lots of hidden parlors in the office towers in CBD and Sanlitun. I remember everything being on the pricey side there, though.

    Wuhan: like my first night there, I had Tantan matches telling me to go to their sauna or massage parlor or hotel. Lots of places that offer you good service in a nice environment at a bargain price, and like the high end service with really hot girls there is comparable to the price you would pay for shitty service in Guangzhou or Beijing. The thing is I would not know how to explain how to find these places other than just add every Tantan or Tinder account that has their WeChat info in their public profile, which is what I did when I lived there. For example, one of their profile pics would be a QR code, or a picture of a WeChat profile page that has a searchable WeChat ID. Sometimes in the public Tantan profile is a phone number in hanzi characters, or sometimes in older more obscure hanzi characters that are homophones for the numbers. I just added everyone this way, and found all these agents telling me there's working girls at this hotel or that sauna or behind a hidden door in a KTV. Like a lot of these wanted you to buy boner pills or sex videos, or to use their delivery service to send someone over (I have only once gotten good service when it's door service, so I try to avoid those: they're always in a hurry to leave before they even got there, and they always have one hand on their phone) or their shitty overpriced massage service that is not full service (and is a terrible massage but is in a nice place with lots of sexy women in the same uniform and you think "there's going to be sex" but there is not going to be sex: in my experience, these places either want you to pay upfront, or they want you to wear some little shorts instead of being naked, or both, (parlors you pay after the service, working girls you pay before, and unless there's a long walk between the showers and your room, in which case they will give you a locker to put your things in, and a towel, slippers, shorts, and tie-able shirt to wear during the walk to and back, they shouldn't be given you just shorts, especially if there's a shower in the room)) but most of them were trying get customers for full service places. There was one KTV I went to often where there was back door that led you to stairs and a security door, then a waiting room, then another security door. On the other side was a line up of hot Chinese girls. Pick one, who leads you to a room with a bathroom (where she bathes you) and a bedroom with a bed and usually other sex furniture like ceiling ropes or those sex cushion things.

    Harbin: I lived there a couple of years. Everything was out in the open, there were a few parts of town were there would lots of rows of storefront massage shops on the first floor with pink lights outside of various buildings, and invariably there would be police stations somewhere in the middle of said blocks. And these were regular apartment buildings with families living in the other apartments, renting or owning in a red light district and just ignoring what was going on on the first floor. Really inexpensive, some would ask for more for foreigners and it would still be inexpensive, but generally the rooms and the beds would be shabby, and the person in charge would say 20 minutes but someone would start knocking on the door to tell you time was up after like 8 minutes. Basically, the hard thing in Harbin was finding the high end nice places, which when you found them, were still less expensive than the crappiest service in the other cities I mentioned. Like I had a couple of threesomes in the high end spots for 900 yuan.

    Whenever I visited Tianjin or Shenyang or Xi'An, I was never there long enough to find what was being offered there. In Xi'An, the Tantan matches were also sometimes agents telling me to go to their sauna or whatever but I never had enough time.

  12. #722

    Yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by Igmc32  [View Original Post]
    Interesting, I'd have guessed there's more supply in mainland and therefore cheaper, but I assume the free market in Hong Kong turn the tables.

    Just from Tinder Shanghai looks better, are you really sure Shanghai is worse than HK?

    I like Chinese looking women, I think HK is more international and people are more busy working overtime.

    "Thailand, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, Columbia, Dominican Republic" I think Thailand and the Latin-American countries are better in regard to mongering compared to Netherlands and Germany.
    You are right, SH never had a nine even in 2003. Let's forget it then. Things did not exist in 1963 or 1973, so do 2013 or 2023. Who cares.

  13. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by CoconutWater89  [View Original Post]
    I don't think wages have gone up that drastically since then, I think it is more because of the national crackdown.
    Should've been more specific. The wages I'm quoting is guangdong area concentrating within Guangzhou, shenzhen, zhuhai, dongguan. All first tier cities probably similar if not higher wages. Shanghai I'm pretty certain is higher than Guangzhou average salary.

    Regarding the poorer provinces, the hot girls simply migrate to first tier cities starting as a veggie masseuse. Than eventually bargirl once they have enough cash to rent their own pad. I think the poorer provinces will be completely dry but then again I never been there.

    I've been to guillin. Much poorer city versus Guangzhou and I can tell you their ktv prices aren't exactly cheap as well as their FS sauna. I haven't been able to locate a red light district there though.....

  14. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by StinkyFeet  [View Original Post]
    It's not Hong Kong taking all the hot girls it's the overall positive economy that killed the market as well as country wide crackdown. Your 11 years too late if you wanted cheap hot girl in China.

    To inform you what killed the market.

    - jobs in China are at a point where girls can have a relatively comfy life without needing to resort to prostitution. Average wage for a dumb job like store clerk is 3000-4000 excluding sales commission.

    - veggie massage jobs go for 4000-6000.

    - bar girls (drinking only) anywhere from 5000 and up.

    Eleven years ago it 4 x lower.

    Main places to find working girls in China are at local ktvs dotted across the country but prices can vary widely as well quality. From as cheap as 600 one shot to 1500 one shot. Overnight just double the price (sometimes more) of course this excludes the KTV room fee and minimum alcohol fees. Mando is obligatory.

    Out calls are for girls that can't successfully compete against their KTV sisters so mainly unwanted females. Some (ripoff) agencies can converse in English..
    If it's largely about the wages of alternative low skilled jobs, the poor provinces like yunnan / guizhou / gansu probably still have a good scene then right?

    Even just in 2015/16 in Suzhou, you could walk down the little bbs street with 5 dwellings in operation on a Sunday afternoon at 1 pm and find a handful of 8's in their 20's /30's for 150 rmb with great service. A few of the hotter girls were clearing 12-14 k, the average ones around half that. I don't think wages have gone up that drastically since then, I think it is more because of the national crackdown.

  15. #719
    It's not Hong Kong taking all the hot girls it's the overall positive economy that killed the market as well as country wide crackdown. Your 11 years too late if you wanted cheap hot girl in China.

    To inform you what killed the market.

    - jobs in China are at a point where girls can have a relatively comfy life without needing to resort to prostitution. Average wage for a dumb job like store clerk is 3000-4000 excluding sales commission.

    - veggie massage jobs go for 4000-6000.

    - bar girls (drinking only) anywhere from 5000 and up.

    Eleven years ago it 4 x lower.

    Main places to find working girls in China are at local ktvs dotted across the country but prices can vary widely as well quality. From as cheap as 600 one shot to 1500 one shot. Overnight just double the price (sometimes more) of course this excludes the KTV room fee and minimum alcohol fees. Mando is obligatory.

    Out calls are for girls that can't successfully compete against their KTV sisters so mainly unwanted females. Some (ripoff) agencies can converse in English.

    Hotel girls are another thing, but you'll need to be able to chat in mando.

    So if China continues to progress, working girl prices will continue to rise.

    I am now touring henan (boondocks of China) the prices for KTV girls are cheap 300/400/800 & 400/600/1200 but the place is completely devoid of foreigners. Some hotels don't even accept passport ID.

    I heard from other expats that barbershops still exit but so far I haven't seen them in over 4 years within south China, I have seen them in dongbei. Barbara shops are the cheapest at 250-400 for a quickie. Hot girls working at these places are rare. My one time visit nearby Qingdao got me a hot tall girl for 400. But she was the only one hot out of all the working girls that I saw (about fifty).

    This is significantly different back in 2008 where I can go to the red light district in dongguan find a hot teen for only 50 yuan for a quickie but of course I can speak and pass for a local.

    For the best service versus price: If your white, go to fillipines or Thailand. If your south Asian, go to Indonesia. If your east Asian go to Hong Kong. If your Korean, go to south Korea. That's my advise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igmc32  [View Original Post]
    Interesting, I'd have guessed there's more supply in mainland and therefore cheaper, but I assume the free market in Hong Kong turn the tables.

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