FKK Mainhattan- Frankfurt

[Pessimist]

Since this is an anonymous forum, I can share my personal info.

While I will not open up my balance sheet here, I will admit I'm married. Both my wife and I make good money. For a decade, our total tax payment to the government has averaged 200 grand a year, and in the last 5 has been near 250 grand a year.

Even though I have been attending FKKs for nearly 9 years and even with nearly 120 rooms a year, I think my annual room spend is not more than 12 grand a year. That is because I do quite a few half hour sessions, and only a small fraction of my sessions have extras like anal and CIM and I do multi-girl sessions just a handful of times a year. I tip with 10's and 20's in some of my half hour sessions but otherwise I'm not a huge tipper.

So, it is quite possible that my single year tax payment is probably double the entire amount of mongering spend I had done in FKKs (when you add the club entry fee and travel expenses, it would bring them closer to convergence).

I was struck by a similar assertion in a report by UncleOx a few weeks ago. In fact, I began doing my own personal analysis after reading his post. I suspect there are many many others in this forum in the same situation as me and UncleOx.

People spend money on what are their true priorities. I have no use for expensive cars and drive a 10 year old beat up car but I spend 60 grand a year to send my two kids to private schools. I spend money on my mongering while many of my colleagues are splurging playing golf in country clubs.

In this forum I suspect many people are unmarried. That is a different equation. Men who are unencumbered are able to spend on their mongering at a different pace than people like myself.

Mongers that pay higher prices likely fall into one or more of the following categories: (1) encounter WGs so unique that she cannot be substituted, (2) high mongering budget, (3) constrained by time, and (4) failed to do any research.

For optics-oriented mongers, "unique" would be their ideal beauty. Since the WG is such a rare find optically, he is willing to pay more to ensure good service. In general, local mongers tend to be less optics-oriented. Local mongers are more likely confine themselves to one club, attending three times a week with zero curiosity to explore. They don't have that fear that they are missing out, and that just lurking around the corner (at that other club 20 km away) is their ideal beauty. "Unique" does not apply just to optics; it could also describe the unique emotions a monger feels toward a specific WG aka "club wife". Both locals and fly-in tourists are susceptible when it comes to "falling" for a WG.

[Pessimist]

Kosher Kowboy.

+1.

Bravo for pointing out that Germans are as charitable or as guilty as anyone else when it comes to tipping. It is easy to bash the clueless foreign tourist. But just as no one has a corner on the knowledge market and a few tourists may have more awareness of some FKKs than some locals, it is equally possible that some locals are equally likely to tip a girl as the stereotypical foreigner.

Let us remember — tipping is often as much about you as about the girl. You want to feel good about yourself. "I'm a nice, kind hearted and fair guy, I reward good service". This wanting to feel good about self, especially in front of a girl you had just fucked to your satisfaction is not a trait seen only in foreigners. It is a universal thing in our DNA.

(P.S. I don't need to hear from a hundred guys now how they are very strict and never ever tip, that only weak willed people tip, etc. We are talking about a representative sample of various nationalities here and whether a German, Turk, Chinese, American, etc are equally likely to tip. Not about the individual you you).

I actually do think we Americans are likely to tip more than others, as tipping is such a national cultural habit and most of the workers in our services economy get paid less than minimum wage. However, excluding US, I think you are correct to think Germans probably tip as much as anyone else in the clubs.

[Takedown]

I find this animosity you speak of more prevalent actually online than in the clubs. I attribute this to what we call here ' keyboard warriors' and once you meet in person they become nice loving little teddy bears. As to targeting demographic groups (girls aside) I haven't seen it in person in the clubs but I also spend my time more in fixed rate clubs where equal pay for equal play is the case. I will however add there is some hypocrisy in the clubs at both the mainstream FKK clubs as well as the RTCs as I see German guests often tipping just as much as the other white, black, Indian, Turkish, Asian etc. Guests are paying yet from reading online one would assume Germans tip nothing and the fly ins give away the shop which simply is not the case unless one of you guys catches me paying the Gypsies. As one local guy tells me I am the only guy he has ever known that goes to Dietzenbach and drops 350-500+ Euros in a day but they do not give a shit, in fact they find it amusing.

Yes, definitely more on the forums than in the club, hopefully attributed to the keyboard warrior phenomenon. I'll second your observation that Germans do tip. As such I also often do so myself in the 50 e rooms. The only demographic that I know that definitely, consistently never tips are the French.

[McAdonis]

I find this animosity you speak of more prevalent actually online than in the clubs. I attribute this to what we call here ' keyboard warriors' and once you meet in person they become nice loving little teddy bears.

With regards to animosity online, it is just one of the things that one must grow accustomed to in the age of the Internet. Your using of the term 'keyboard warriors' at least hints at this. I found the apologies between you and Takedown unnecessary. Personally, I did not find your criticisms of mainstream clubs harsh at all. I will admit some bias there because I am neither a fan of Oase or Sharks. To me every club, has its negatives. Even when Sharks was my favorite, I never felt the need to defend it. I don't have a financial stake in their success.

And while, Takedown was clearly referring to you when he likened some posters to hipsters that eschew mainstream establishments to be cool, I would have to ask is being a hipster such a negative term? Maybe I just have tough skin. If another poster was condescending towards me, I suppose it would reduce my credibility as a poster in the eyes of other posters, but again, I really do not care. I am not monetizing off of my ISG handle in anyway. No free entries. No sponsors. No click revenue.

Note this is not entirely directed at you KK. Since you mostly keep your cool and remain cordial.

[McAdonis]

Mongers that pay higher prices likely fall into one or more of the following categories: (1) encounter WGs so unique that she cannot be substituted, (2) high mongering budget, (3) constrained by time, and (4) failed to do any research.

For optics-oriented mongers, "unique" would be their ideal beauty. Since the WG is such a rare find optically, he is willing to pay more to ensure good service. In general, local mongers tend to be less optics-oriented. Local mongers are more likely confine themselves to one club, attending three times a week with zero curiosity to explore. They don't have that fear that they are missing out, and that just lurking around the corner (at that other club 20 km away) is their ideal beauty. "Unique" does not apply just to optics; it could also describe the unique emotions a monger feels toward a specific WG aka "club wife". Both locals and fly-in tourists are susceptible when it comes to "falling" for a WG.

High mongering budget is often correlated with high net worth individuals (HNI), but not always. A monger with an eight-digit net worth may not have the same mongering appetite as someone who has a five-digit net worth. Some HNI mongers are happy attending a FKK club one time every three months, even if they could afford to visit much more frequently. At the other end, there are some mongers, who try to allocate as much money to their mongering budget as possible. This entails spending bare minimum on necessities, neglecting savings, and reducing "luxury" spending to just monger-related activities. At the extreme, this might mean just having one hobby: mongering. I know quite a few fly-in mongers who spend significantly more than KK on entries and sessions. And I am willing to bet these same guys have never splurged on Delta Comfort Plus or ever spent more than 50 EUR on an outside-the-club meal, while KK claims to do this regularly.

Constrained by time can apply to both fly-in mongers or locals. Some fly-in mongers only do a single five day trip once every two years, so they have no qualms spending 5000 EUR on that five day trip. Local married mongers are sometimes on tight leashes, so they have limited two-or-three hour time windows. They literally told their wife they were running to the store to buy some milk. Negotiating would almost be a waste of time for them. If attending an FKK is a once a year occurrence, dropping a few hundred EUR is no big deal. Constrained by time can also apply to older guys who know that their mongering career is winding down. Or that their time on earth is limited, so they might as well spend that money while they are able.

Failed to do research. Usually not the fly-in hardcore FKK veteran who is on his twentieth trip, but the fly-in Messe attendee or fly-in married guy on a business trip who may never return to Germany again. These guys might spend 3-5 hours in a FKK club and never step foot in one again. Why RTFF?

[Kosher Kowboy]

Who I don't feel for are the locals who treat all visitors like crap because of their animosity. The bitterness should be directed toward individuals not demographic groups.

I find this animosity you speak of more prevalent actually online than in the clubs. I attribute this to what we call here ' keyboard warriors' and once you meet in person they become nice loving little teddy bears. As to targeting demographic groups (girls aside) I haven't seen it in person in the clubs but I also spend my time more in fixed rate clubs where equal pay for equal play is the case. I will however add there is some hypocrisy in the clubs at both the mainstream FKK clubs as well as the RTCs as I see German guests often tipping just as much as the other white, black, Indian, Turkish, Asian etc. Guests are paying yet from reading online one would assume Germans tip nothing and the fly ins give away the shop which simply is not the case unless one of you guys catches me paying the Gypsies. As one local guy tells me I am the only guy he has ever known that goes to Dietzenbach and drops 350-500+ Euros in a day but they do not give a shit, in fact they find it amusing

My only addition is that despite (or maybe because of) going to clubs with mainly local clientele I have never experienced any hostility, and have found the local guys to be friendly and helpful. Although culturally Germans tend to be a little cautious in accepting new acquaintances they are very supportive once over the initial hurdle

This is my experience too. I have a new Queen now and last trip on my last day I was short time when one of her local clients / regs sitting with her asked me when I was taking off to say good bye to me and I told him probably soon after one more room and he actually asked me if I wanted to take the girl he was sitting with since I was short time and I did. He gave up the girl for me. He didn't have to. We all know each others favorites and backups; truly a nice gesture on his part. Or perhaps a little 'selfish' maybe, he also is a Nein Vashing aficionado.

[Optimist]

Takedown. Spot on. Excellent points. My only addition is that despite (or maybe because of) going to clubs with mainly local clientele I have never experienced any hostility, and have found the local guys to be friendly and helpful. Although culturally Germans tend to be a little cautious in accepting new acquaintances they are very supportive once over the initial hurdle, although they can often be rather brusque in expressing their opinions. Even in Sharks I found the locals to be very very welcoming.

Hope you don't meet any hostility. Although brusqueness may be unavoidable it should not be misinterpreted.

Have fun

[Takedown]

All great points. Even though there are tons of fly by tourists who couldn't discern good, fair service providers from the sharks, there are also tons of casual local mongers, probably even more of them. The guy who goes to one or two clubs near him probably takes a pretty passive approach to mongering. After speaking with some locals, many don't read any forums for info or feel a need to supply reviews. And neither should they as I also probably would not read forums if I could just pop in after work a couple times a week. In comparison to the general local club going population, there are very few expert local hobbyists. I get the feeling that the hoards of locals who visit in groups do not venture far from home and highly doubt that most do research prior to going.

As for the expert locals, you can see from reading some of their posts that they have great animosity towards fly in mongers. I do feel a little bad for them because sex tourism truly is driving up the prices for them. I had a couple discussions with fly in guys who openly say they don't give a fuck about paying an extra 50-100 euro above standard prices. They openly say they don't care that they are driving up prices, seeing it as a "I got to get mine because I'm already flying all this way. "It's cheap compared to home."

Who I don't feel for are the locals who treat all visitors like crap because of their animosity. The bitterness should be directed toward individuals not demographic groups.

I agree, there are guys who fly in to Austin where I live who know the girls better than I do now! Likewise I can think of one place some idiot American guy goes and fucks girls without condoms and many of the other equally idiotic local guys there think he actually lives there and he possibly knows more about the sexy erotic entertainers in that high end club in Frankfurt's nicest suburb than most of the regulars. I know a guy who goes to clubs in Stuttgart and another who goes in to the Dusseldorf area and both those guys know more about those locales than the German monger who might know every Hessen club inside out but never ventures out. All relative. Nor does it really matter. I can however relate to some local sentiment that tourists drove up the prices or tourists crowd up the clubs but at the same time w / o those tourists my beloved Sharks would perhaps struggle financially or be less profitable.

[Takedown]

I think my reply to Takedown may have contained some misconceptions on my end and public apologies to him, and I think some of the replies to him have been constructed based on the wording Takedown used in his original post that was responding to the shit on Sharks party.

Thanks mate. Apologies for lumping you in with the hipster crowd, hah!

[Kosher Kowboy]

Any time someone has to pull rank ("I am a local and you are not", "I attended a club a thousand times to your hundred visits" etc) the quality and the validity of such argument is losing luster.

But this may a tough ask when it comes to a bunch of financially successful, testosterone fueled mongers.

I agree, there are guys who fly in to Austin where I live who know the girls better than I do now! Likewise I can think of one place some idiot American guy goes and fucks girls without condoms and many of the other equally idiotic local guys there think he actually lives there and he possibly knows more about the sexy erotic entertainers in that high end club in Frankfurt's nicest suburb than most of the regulars. I know a guy who goes to clubs in Stuttgart and another who goes in to the Dusseldorf area and both those guys know more about those locales than the German monger who might know every Hessen club inside out but never ventures out. All relative. Nor does it really matter. I can however relate to some local sentiment that tourists drove up the prices or tourists crowd up the clubs but at the same time w / o those tourists my beloved Sharks would perhaps struggle financially or be less profitable. The pole dancers would go broke and Noon (I think that is her name) would be the busiest one! And isn't the guy who flies in from Berlin (although German) just as much a tourist as the guy who flies in from Italy or drives in from Luxembourg or speeds thru Switzerland escaping France?

Actually jokes aside that French guy probably knows more than many of the locals in many places.

But locals will always feel a sense they were ' invaded'; we got screwed here in Texas with all the guys who moved here from California and New York for tax purposes and outbid us and now the hookers here prefer them. Shit happens.

I like poor mongers too. I met a guy in F39 who I thought was a lucky guy as he was retired telling me he goes to the RTCs every weekend. As it turns out he is dirt poor, collects money from the government for some disability and takes public transportation everywhere as he has some free or discounted pass to use public transportation and gets cash too from the government and spends it on the RTC girls

[Pessimist]

Good point, however what about the guy who has not only eaten Ben & Jerry's but also Dairy Queen, Haagen Dazs, Hershey, Jack & Jill, Wendy's, Nestle, etc. As someone who has sampled around the world FKK is best of all.

Good point. That basically supports the thesis that someone who has a broad experience set does have a good perspective. Many locals in fact might remain very local and might not even travel the breadth of the whole Deutsche land. An international traveler like Steve in the other thread has a rich and broad reference set to make comparison judgement. There are probably many others.

When a opinion or view point is well supported and articulated, other members can see the merit of such opinion. Any time someone has to pull rank ("I am a local and you are not", "I attended a club a thousand times to your hundred visits" etc) the quality and the validity of such argument is losing luster.

In any case, my intent was to say that we can provide useful info in these threads without the need to put down other people. But this may a tough ask when it comes to a bunch of financially successful, testosterone fueled mongers.

[Kosher Kowboy]

Wotcha KK. How's your belly off for spots?. Writing genius must run in your family. Pickled herring and black bread? That's those barmy geezers from the country which flattens my xenophobic homeland with penalty shootouts. To ease your furrowed brow I'll order the fatted calves for you and visit KFC on my way to red towel land. But really you should offer pie and mash and liquor to make me and the White Knight feel at home surrounded by all these Germans, Romanians, and, strangest culture of all, Americans. But, thinking about it, I doubt he ever had pie and mash. Off now down the apples to get my barnet cut with my trouble

Britannia waives the rules

Trying to decipher! My limited time in London which was only at the airport connecting on El Al to Tel Aviv and British Airways to Frankfurt was not enough to time learn proper English. I think we Yanks fucked up the language!

As to the pie and mash I think Mainhatten served something like that last trip. It was a giant tray of mashed potatoes with crumbled ground beef, peas and carrots in it and a brown gravy next to it as well as pizza. What I couldn't understand is why the Romanian girls eating both this pie and pizza put ketchup on it!

[Optimist]

Wotcha KK. How's your belly off for spots?. Writing genius must run in your family. Pickled herring and black bread? That's those barmy geezers from the country which flattens my xenophobic homeland with penalty shootouts. To ease your furrowed brow I'll order the fatted calves for you and visit KFC on my way to red towel land. But really you should offer pie and mash and liquor to make me and the White Knight feel at home surrounded by all these Germans, Romanians, and, strangest culture of all, Americans. But, thinking about it, I doubt he ever had pie and mash. Off now down the apples to get my barnet cut with my trouble

Britannia waives the rules

[Kosher Kowboy]

Dear sir.

I am experienced in FKK since 11 years but would be grateful for some help before I make my first visit to Mainhatten. Do they provides the vegan Magnum?

Thanks gentlemen in advance.

Greetings mate,

Just since you have been so kind to the forum in your contributions over the years and kept many could have been fires from starting and / or putting them out between members in such a fun and diplomatic manner I will make sure your request is granted.

I am pretty friendly with the front desk ladies (former WGs) at Mainhatten and will submit a formal request to them to request a Vegan Magnum bar from the company as if they order in mass between three clubs the owners operate will probably get a discount. This way all the guys going to World this summer can enjoy as well and last but not least all these ' blokes' who showed up in the Finca thread once you started posting there will have the option as well except we will have to tell Finca not to over order that only one bar is needed for those new attendees as they are all one in the same guy. Actually the order is just for you, this guy is not a Vegan; have dined with him several times. Fish and Chips would probably be preferred by him. He is actually a fun guy to eat with, other than outing guys to girls and guys to guys he is actually a good lad.

I think to officially be considered vegan would have to be non-dairy ice cream (assuming the chocolate is ok?) and I think this is a most reasonable request. To avoid any confusion Magnum will change the packaging from brown with gold writing and for the Vegan bars will make the packages gold with brown writing.

Now it would be nice if you could return the favor to the RTC tour guides I employ and please tell them we Americans are not used to pickled herring served on dry cracked brown / black bread and maybe order me a bucket of KFC; this way maybe I could sit down with the guy who attempted to win over that Shark you refer too (about 4 others as well over the years; that is just at Sharks not counting girls back to the Atlantis day before my time) and perhaps we can thru either fish and chips or a bucket of KFC get this chap to reverse his patterns and return to the ISG and the Sharks Club this time as a punter with some ethics and maybe he learned being a White Knight as you explained elsewhere will get a guy nowhere.

Girls like Euros and occasionally if a guy needs a Magnum they will grin and bear the hardships of being pounded or in some of their cases enjoy it; unfortunately doesn't apply to me. Except the Euro part The Vegan bar has been ordered but please whatever you do not print this post out, show it to the red toweled Gypsies or tell them it was me. I am sure I don't need to tell you that as I think most on here know the level of discretion and fairness you bring to the table and the board and all jokes aside it is an honour to call you a friend

How is my British English coming along? I find the pigeon English easy to write but my mother being an American author (may she rest in peace) never tried to teach me to write like an Englishman so I am trying on my own

Cheers

[Optimist]

Dear sir.

I am experienced in FKK since 18 years but would be grateful for some help before I make my first visit to Mainhatten. Do they provides the vegan Magnum?

Thanks gentlemen in advance.