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  1. #5918
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve9696  [View Original Post]
    So in summary all sex is paid sex. Pay too much and you kill it. Pay too little and you kill it. I try to be Goldilocks and so far so good (when I follow my own rules!
    I agree, and it is a huge reason why the sugar game is different and requires more skill than the hooker game. The pricing varies from woman to woman and from locale to locale.

    I finally got around to watching the Wolf on Wall Street and saw his take on hookers here: https://vimeo.com/262110281.

    $300 for the blue chips, top of the line model types? Gee, I wonder what happened. LOL.

  2. #5917
    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    I always wanted to make the assertion that most, but not all women are prostitutes in some way, shape, or form, but then women in general start getting all pissy. I think the number of women who only want to know a guy's educational background, religious values, status in the community, etc. And every other trait that "normal" women look for, but DO NOT want to know who is assets are income are, is well under 5%. Perhaps even under 2%, even if they lie about it and claim that money does not matter to them. There are some that do very well in their careers and make enough money on their own, but the ones that don't want even more money are few and far between.
    I agree, but do you think that what we men find attractive is baked into our DNA because of breeding purposes? I do.

    Well, from the female POV, when women get pregnant, they become unattractive, asexual, and to some degree, helpless when pregnant. So they are looking for men who will not leave them if they do get pregnant and if you are a guy who cannot support them, they are not going to be interested in you. So there is a breeding reason why women find men without money unattractive.

    Now when you start talking about women who cannot get pregnant or on birth control and have to have $1000 shoes, that is a different story.

  3. #5916

    Lying

    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    I always wanted to make the assertion that most, but not all women are prostitutes in some way, shape, or form, but then women in general start getting all pissy. I think the number of women who only want to know a guy's educational background, religious values, status in the community, etc. And every other trait that "normal" women look for, but DO NOT want to know who is assets are income are, is well under 5%. Perhaps even under 2%, even if they lie about it and claim that money does not matter to them. There are some that do very well in their careers and make enough money on their own, but the ones that don't want even more money are few and far between.
    Women also lie when they say looks don't matter to them. They absolutely do! I will agree maybe not as much as for a man, but women do care about looks. If a man cares at least 90% of the time, then a woman cares at least 75% of the time, and that's significant. If looks don't matter what do they need pictures for then? I know security is a part of that but still. Looks do matter to women, and don't listen to any bullshit claims from women that they don't! Swiping left or right has everything to do with looks, and both men and women do it.

  4. #5915
    I always wanted to make the assertion that most, but not all women are prostitutes in some way, shape, or form, but then women in general start getting all pissy. I think the number of women who only want to know a guy's educational background, religious values, status in the community, etc. And every other trait that "normal" women look for, but DO NOT want to know who is assets are income are, is well under 5%. Perhaps even under 2%, even if they lie about it and claim that money does not matter to them. There are some that do very well in their careers and make enough money on their own, but the ones that don't want even more money are few and far between.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve9696  [View Original Post]
    Guess I have a few thoughts on the current topic:

    First there is usually some guy who wants to argue all Seeking girls are prostitutes because they take money for sex. This is a specious argument because in fact ALL women take money for sex. It's just a matter of how indirect it is. News flash women get married for stability. Pretty sure Bill Gates wife didn't pick him as the handsomest guy on the block. And Jeff Besos cost per fuck is the highest in the entire world. It's all money for sex in the end. It's just wrapped up in prettier packages.

    With Seeking you can do too much money and too little money.

    I have a friend who (since reformed) used to throw a lot of money at his girls. They become complacent. And because they now view you as a beta they also lose interest. So don't throw too much money even if you can.

    And I personally know the perils of trying it "free". I had a girl I was with quite a few times. Truly liked her. Paid her to spend time in the Mediterranean with me. Then flew her to LA. Only covered flights and she agreed to come for nothing. In the end after three days we had a great time but only got one BJ out of the whole thing! We had it out and broke up but basically she started acting like a girlfriend a couple years in "not tonight. Headache. Not in the mood" etc. If she had a big payday coming at the end she woulda been on her best behavior, including sex.

    So in summary all sex is paid sex. Pay too much and you kill it. Pay too little and you kill it. I try to be Goldilocks and so far so good (when I follow my own rules!

  5. #5914

    Amen brother

    Another thing that most people don't understand is money is only part of the equation. They need to have a connection for the both of you to have a good time. They have no shortage of choices. I know for a fact I wasn't giving a girl what she was used to but I was in the ballpark and she liked my company so we both won.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve9696  [View Original Post]
    Guess I have a few thoughts on the current topic:

    First there is usually some guy who wants to argue all Seeking girls are prostitutes because they take money for sex. This is a specious argument because in fact ALL women take money for sex. It's just a matter of how indirect it is. News flash women get married for stability. Pretty sure Bill Gates wife didn't pick him as the handsomest guy on the block. And Jeff Besos cost per fuck is the highest in the entire world. It's all money for sex in the end. It's just wrapped up in prettier packages.

    With Seeking you can do too much money and too little money.

    I have a friend who (since reformed) used to throw a lot of money at his girls. They become complacent. And because they now view you as a beta they also lose interest. So don't throw too much money even if you can.

    And I personally know the perils of trying it "free". I had a girl I was with quite a few times. Truly liked her. Paid her to spend time in the Mediterranean with me. Then flew her to LA. Only covered flights and she agreed to come for nothing. In the end after three days we had a great time but only got one BJ out of the whole thing! We had it out and broke up but basically she started acting like a girlfriend a couple years in "not tonight. Headache. Not in the mood" etc. If she had a big payday coming at the end she woulda been on her best behavior, including sex.

    So in summary all sex is paid sex. Pay too much and you kill it. Pay too little and you kill it. I try to be Goldilocks and so far so good (when I follow my own rules!

  6. #5913

    That's right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve9696  [View Original Post]
    First there is usually some guy who wants to argue all Seeking girls are prostitutes because they take money for sex. This is a specious argument because in fact ALL women take money for sex. It's just a matter of how indirect it is. News flash women get married for stability. Pretty sure Bill Gates wife didn't pick him as the handsomest guy on the block. And Jeff Besos cost per fuck is the highest in the entire world. It's all money for sex in the end. It's just wrapped up in prettier packages. So in summary all sex is paid sex.
    All men are paying for sex, one way or the other. As you say, it's just a matter of how direct it is and how it's "packaged". The only way a man isn't paying and a woman doesn't have a meter on it is if it's truly some recreational, sport fucking, hook-up or something. It happens, but that's hit or miss for the overwhelming majority of men. Most of us must pay in one form or another to have access to a steady supply of tits and ass, and each man must choose what works for him. For me the 5 F's suits my needs (find them, feel them, finger them, fuck them, forget them). Some men choose not to pay and mostly go without. I consider Seeking, if you're not dealing with a pro, to be a soft form or prostitution that has the potential to develop into something else. I mean, non-pros start developing feelings and dependency and stuff.

  7. #5912

    Money and Sex

    Guess I have a few thoughts on the current topic:

    First there is usually some guy who wants to argue all Seeking girls are prostitutes because they take money for sex. This is a specious argument because in fact ALL women take money for sex. It's just a matter of how indirect it is. News flash women get married for stability. Pretty sure Bill Gates wife didn't pick him as the handsomest guy on the block. And Jeff Besos cost per fuck is the highest in the entire world. It's all money for sex in the end. It's just wrapped up in prettier packages.

    With Seeking you can do too much money and too little money.

    I have a friend who (since reformed) used to throw a lot of money at his girls. They become complacent. And because they now view you as a beta they also lose interest. So don't throw too much money even if you can.

    And I personally know the perils of trying it "free". I had a girl I was with quite a few times. Truly liked her. Paid her to spend time in the Mediterranean with me. Then flew her to LA. Only covered flights and she agreed to come for nothing. In the end after three days we had a great time but only got one BJ out of the whole thing! We had it out and broke up but basically she started acting like a girlfriend a couple years in "not tonight. Headache. Not in the mood" etc. If she had a big payday coming at the end she woulda been on her best behavior, including sex.

    So in summary all sex is paid sex. Pay too much and you kill it. Pay too little and you kill it. I try to be Goldilocks and so far so good (when I follow my own rules!

  8. #5911
    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    I feel ya, but the premise is that it is Seeking. It's not eHarmony, Match.com, OKCupid, or Hinge. So why does a girl post on a "sugar dating" site instead of somewhere else? I guess I could give it a shot, and worse case scenario I get an angry response saying I have insulted her, and that's the end of it.
    Well, I would never bring that up when online. It is different when you meet them and they see you are real. As for not using those other sites, the reason not to is IMO because you are not going to find the best looking women on those sites. I pulled women off of seeking that were hotter than even the best strip clubs I went to.

  9. #5910
    I once met a psychiatrist that didn't want a thing. I asked her why she's on a sugar site and she told me she's meets more interesting people there than other sites. I thought it was a brilliant answer and absolutely true. The girls half my age I meet there are engaging, mature, and way more interesting than than someone I'd find on another site.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    I feel ya, but the premise is that it is Seeking. It's not eHarmony, Match.com, OKCupid, or Hinge. So why does a girl post on a "sugar dating" site instead of somewhere else? I guess I could give it a shot, and worse case scenario I get an angry response saying I have insulted her, and that's the end of it.

  10. #5909
    I feel ya, but the premise is that it is Seeking. It's not eHarmony, Match.com, OKCupid, or Hinge. So why does a girl post on a "sugar dating" site instead of somewhere else? I guess I could give it a shot, and worse case scenario I get an angry response saying I have insulted her, and that's the end of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis2008  [View Original Post]
    If you are a married guy, you have to keep things transactional, and I think that is what women come to expect. The shocker for me was the young women I was seeing as SBs were interested in dating me after my divorce. In fact, I was so used to paying and the sex being transactional that the person getting in the way of things was me.

    We have the frequent poster on here Mr. E who is always trying to say he gets laid for less than everyone else, but he challenged me once and it was helpful. He was like don't give the woman anything after an encounter and see if she stays with you. So I tried it, and she did. Then I looked back at things and wondered how many times the person who brought up payment was me. It happened a lot when I looked back on things. When I was married or not really that interested in the girl, I would pay her to make sure she understood it was transactional, but there were times I paid where I probably did not have to and should not have.

    We are always questioning the women: would you fuck me if I did not pay you? But maybe, we need to ask ourselves, are you paying the women because you care about her and want her to be happy or is it just for sex?

    So I get what you are saying, but how much of this is the women and how much of it is us? So yeah, you may say that it feels transactional in the sugar world, and it can be if we let it, but you have to ask yourself, if you hung out with your SB and did not have sex, how would you feel? With me and my favorite women, the sex was not the main course but just the cherry on top. With others, if there was no sex, I could care less if I saw them.

  11. #5908
    ONS aside, I've had three lengthy relationships from the site. All three were very clear they were looking for financial help. I have no issue with it so long as they are in school or have a job with a future. We always worked out the details on the first meet and never spoke about it again. I would never try to not pay someone if I told them I would, be it yesterday or last year. Never felt the need to renegotiate either. We all have things that work for us and, like you, sex is just the cherry for me. If they are engaging and have lots of energy and an attitude that complements mine that's really what I want. There's never an insistence of sex every time we see each other and I'm ok giving her the money whether we do or not so long as we have a great time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis2008  [View Original Post]
    If you are a married guy, you have to keep things transactional, and I think that is what women come to expect. The shocker for me was the young women I was seeing as SBs were interested in dating me after my divorce. In fact, I was so used to paying and the sex being transactional that the person getting in the way of things was me.

    We have the frequent poster on here Mr. E who is always trying to say he gets laid for less than everyone else, but he challenged me once and it was helpful. He was like don't give the woman anything after an encounter and see if she stays with you. So I tried it, and she did. Then I looked back at things and wondered how many times the person who brought up payment was me. It happened a lot when I looked back on things. When I was married or not really that interested in the girl, I would pay her to make sure she understood it was transactional, but there were times I paid where I probably did not have to and should not have.

    We are always questioning the women: would you fuck me if I did not pay you? But maybe, we need to ask ourselves, are you paying the women because you care about her and want her to be happy or is it just for sex?

    So I get what you are saying, but how much of this is the women and how much of it is us? So yeah, you may say that it feels transactional in the sugar world, and it can be if we let it, but you have to ask yourself, if you hung out with your SB and did not have sex, how would you feel? With me and my favorite women, the sex was not the main course but just the cherry on top. With others, if there was no sex, I could care less if I saw them.

  12. #5907
    Quote Originally Posted by DownUnderMonger  [View Original Post]
    Same thing happened to me, moved to sugardaddymeet, can talk services and prices on the site instead of having a million kik conversations, similar number of girls. Saved a lot of time and effort (ie. Asking p4 p from 1st message) instead of half a dozen messages sounding them out.
    Agree with this, having used both Seeking and SDM, SDM does let you get right down to numbers and services without having to move the conversation off the site like Seeking's content rules make you have to.

  13. #5906
    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    For me, I don't see any difference between prostitution and azucar babies when it comes to trading sex for money. The main difference I see is that most of the girls on Seeking offer more than just sex, but they also want more in return. Not necessarily in the form of cash, but they might wish for guidance on improving their lives. And they are also not inherently standoffish about inviting you into their personal lives, or communicating without funds being exchanged. But at the end of the day, it's still prostitution, just an "enhanced" form of it. Though I will admit that the experiences does not "feel" the same at all. I think the only way it would ever feel 100% legit, is if the link to money was broken.
    If you are a married guy, you have to keep things transactional, and I think that is what women come to expect. The shocker for me was the young women I was seeing as SBs were interested in dating me after my divorce. In fact, I was so used to paying and the sex being transactional that the person getting in the way of things was me.

    We have the frequent poster on here Mr. E who is always trying to say he gets laid for less than everyone else, but he challenged me once and it was helpful. He was like don't give the woman anything after an encounter and see if she stays with you. So I tried it, and she did. Then I looked back at things and wondered how many times the person who brought up payment was me. It happened a lot when I looked back on things. When I was married or not really that interested in the girl, I would pay her to make sure she understood it was transactional, but there were times I paid where I probably did not have to and should not have.

    We are always questioning the women: would you fuck me if I did not pay you? But maybe, we need to ask ourselves, are you paying the women because you care about her and want her to be happy or is it just for sex?

    So I get what you are saying, but how much of this is the women and how much of it is us? So yeah, you may say that it feels transactional in the sugar world, and it can be if we let it, but you have to ask yourself, if you hung out with your SB and did not have sex, how would you feel? With me and my favorite women, the sex was not the main course but just the cherry on top. With others, if there was no sex, I could care less if I saw them.

  14. #5905
    The doctor is plenty pretty, but she's had cancer twice, and didn't have a good childhood. She let her challenges in life make her exceedingly bull headed, arrogant, and judgemental of others. A fact that I didn't realize until much later after the total length of time since meeting her. I guess when you are dating someone in the beginning, you don't always see these things. It didn't make things any easier with her working such long hours with her job, and having an unpredictable schedule.

    What you echo are the famous last words of Ainara Ximenez. "Most women in this job; once they get started, they cannot stop. The money is too good, and the work is too easy. They cannot go to another job and replicate the deal they have now. Plus some of them have drug problems. " I don't remember exactly what she said word for word, but it was something extremely similar, as she was "coaching me" on my path forward as I was the last client she would ever see, before retiring and disappearing forever. So, before you turn 27 years old, you've had sex with well over 500 guys. What the flying fuck? 354 that she can prove, and host of other guys from sites like Eros and Silxa. Yet she paid off all of her student debt, and got a high paying job in the medical field, ironically enough, several months prior to covid striking the world. She's been dark ever since, apparently living up the good career and doing whatever else "normal" women do. I'm 100% sure if she returned to this line of work, not only would she have reached out to me, but I would have noticed her ads in the usual places as well. I took a snipet of her vouch before the site changed in case some situation like this ever came up, jaja.

    For me, I don't see any difference between prostitution and azucar babies when it comes to trading sex for money. The main difference I see is that most of the girls on Seeking offer more than just sex, but they also want more in return. Not necessarily in the form of cash, but they might wish for guidance on improving their lives. And they are also not inherently standoffish about inviting you into their personal lives, or communicating without funds being exchanged. But at the end of the day, it's still prostitution, just an "enhanced" form of it. Though I will admit that the experiences does not "feel" the same at all. I think the only way it would ever feel 100% legit, is if the link to money was broken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis2008  [View Original Post]
    Of all the female doctors I know, and I know tons, the only ones I were interested in were taken. The numbers are closer now but male doctors dominated as did female nurses. If a female doctor is not attached in her 30's and is attractive, chances are there are serious personality / mental issues. The intriguing female doctors are the smart, compassionate, hard working types who do not look that good but really need love and companionship. If you hook up with one of them, they may be willing to supply the sugar, but you are going to have to forgo looks.

    Yeah, Freddy the brothel owner said much the same thing in his youtube clip here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kQuy90OGM. Thing with Freddy is that his deal was once a woman made big bucks in the hooker racket, she could not get out, so he forced his women to have an end game and work for no longer than one year. That is fine for being a hooker. I am not so sure it matters as much if you are a real sugar baby.

    I recently paid guys to do a move who busted their ass and felt guilty that I gave them less than I used to give a hooker for a BJ in the club. One honest sex worker said, and I agree with it, that sex work is not really work.

    But what she really said that got to me was a reporter was asking her what was wrong with prostitution and they were in a restaurant. She said, "Look around and imagine you HAD to have sex with everyone in here. How would that feel?" When you go into a typical restaurant, how many women are there you would really like to do?" One? Two? Five? And that is before you get to know them.

    That is why I think the sugar game has more legs. Ideally, the women choose to fuck the men versus feeling forced to. Well, that is how it works if it does right. Also, a good sugar daddy is going to try to keep his SB comfortable but not immersed in luxury IMO.

    So my goal was always to elevate the women. Have them appreciate me but not be overly dependent on me, but the reality is that was hard to find. Many times, the sugar game did feel downright transactional.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails delete me.png‎  

  15. #5904
    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    Just finished dating a medical doctor from South America. Bad experience. I found her to be self righteous, untruthful, and reckless. Not found on Seeking. Profession is not a reflection of personal character. Maybe not all female doctors are like this, but this one was. Early '30's, no kids, bilingual.
    Of all the female doctors I know, and I know tons, the only ones I were interested in were taken. The numbers are closer now but male doctors dominated as did female nurses. If a female doctor is not attached in her 30's and is attractive, chances are there are serious personality / mental issues. The intriguing female doctors are the smart, compassionate, hard working types who do not look that good but really need love and companionship. If you hook up with one of them, they may be willing to supply the sugar, but you are going to have to forgo looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanessasClient  [View Original Post]
    Back to this side of the fence. Based on all my experience up until this point, I do not think there is anything inherently wrong in going long term with a courtesan. So long as 2 conditions are met. First is that sex work is not all she does. She either needs to be a full time student getting good grades and progressing towards her degree, or she has to have a conventional job, and only do sex work as secondary. Then number two, she has to have an exit strategy. She plans to do sex work only until she can pay off her student debt, or until she reaches a certain age and can buy a house, or some other similar goal, etc. Not one of these girls who doesn't know where they are going in life, and thinks they can do sex work until they are 80 then retire.
    Yeah, Freddy the brothel owner said much the same thing in his youtube clip here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9kQuy90OGM. Thing with Freddy is that his deal was once a woman made big bucks in the hooker racket, she could not get out, so he forced his women to have an end game and work for no longer than one year. That is fine for being a hooker. I am not so sure it matters as much if you are a real sugar baby.

    I recently paid guys to do a move who busted their ass and felt guilty that I gave them less than I used to give a hooker for a BJ in the club. One honest sex worker said, and I agree with it, that sex work is not really work.

    But what she really said that got to me was a reporter was asking her what was wrong with prostitution and they were in a restaurant. She said, "Look around and imagine you HAD to have sex with everyone in here. How would that feel?" When you go into a typical restaurant, how many women are there you would really like to do?" One? Two? Five? And that is before you get to know them.

    That is why I think the sugar game has more legs. Ideally, the women choose to fuck the men versus feeling forced to. Well, that is how it works if it does right. Also, a good sugar daddy is going to try to keep his SB comfortable but not immersed in luxury IMO.

    So my goal was always to elevate the women. Have them appreciate me but not be overly dependent on me, but the reality is that was hard to find. Many times, the sugar game did feel downright transactional.

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