Zurich

[ShoesAndSocks]

Given all that, he then mentions at the end that he is constantly looking for a property around the Bern region so he could capture the "west" market from Cleo, Freubad. Video seemed cut short at this stage, so looks like more to come.

Second part of this video is up.

At the start, Ingo completes the story about establishing a club near Bern. Says he is fielding offers but hasn't yet found the ideal location. Wants a large outdoor area to rival Freubad. Sounds committed to making this happen.

Rest of the video is rambling about politics.

[Maxime]

Ingo always mentions higher prices, but never suggests how they could be implemented and accepted by the current market.

Personally, any increase on Globe's 150 for 30 would see me abandon the Swiss scene. One extra factor for us overseas visitors is exchange rates. I reviewed my Globe attendance recently and I was shocked to calculate that due to exchange rate fluctuations I now pay 50% more in terms of my home currency than I did ten years ago.

And in many other clubs it is 90-110 CHF per half hour, including same service.

[ShoesAndSocks]

"As far as the "quality of the women" is concerned, especially their appearance, as Heidbrink puts it, the peak has been passed. "In order to maintain the standard and for women to continue to be willing to do this difficult job, prices must rise again."

Ingo always mentions higher prices, but never suggests how they could be implemented and accepted by the current market.

Personally, any increase on Globe's 150 for 30 would see me abandon the Swiss scene. One extra factor for us overseas visitors is exchange rates. I reviewed my Globe attendance recently and I was shocked to calculate that due to exchange rate fluctuations I now pay 50% more in terms of my home currency than I did ten years ago.

[Sirioja]

Someone recently mentioned that in golden era prices were higher than today.

Per Ingo:

"based on the standard service price of 300 francs per half hour in the industry at the time (1996)".

"40 years late (2024) are, the situation is different: prices are at rock bottom, service, as it is called in the scene, costs half of what it once did, despite average wages being almost twice as high.

"As far as the "quality of the women" is concerned, especially their appearance, as Heidbrink puts it, the peak has been passed. "In order to maintain the standard and for women to continue to be willing to do this difficult job, prices must rise again. ".

Increasing from 140 to 150/30 in 2022 , for lower quality, at least for looks.

[KaveMan]

There's a recent interview with Ingo here that discusses declining market conditions, amongst other things.

https://linth24.ch/articles/284938-e...us-dem-bordell.

Someone recently mentioned that in golden era prices were higher than today.

Per Ingo:

"based on the standard service price of 300 francs per half hour in the industry at the time (1996)".

"40 years late (2024) are, the situation is different: prices are at rock bottom, service, as it is called in the scene, costs half of what it once did, despite average wages being almost twice as high.

"As far as the "quality of the women" is concerned, especially their appearance, as Heidbrink puts it, the peak has been passed. "In order to maintain the standard and for women to continue to be willing to do this difficult job, prices must rise again. ".

[PaulInZurich]

First point Ingo makes is the current market is saturated. I take that to mean there aren't enough customers for the existing clubs, let alone a new/restarted one...

My guess was that a new club in the ZRH area would need to be able to absorb losses for 6 months before it gets established. Obviously, Ingo knows the market much better, one year sounds realistic. On the other hand he doesn't want new competition in ZRH.

[Samplerr]

First point Ingo makes is the current market is saturated. I take that to mean there aren't enough customers for the existing clubs, let alone a new/restarted one.

There's a recent interview with Ingo here that discusses declining market conditions, amongst other things.

https://linth24.ch/articles/284938-e...us-dem-bordell

I heard that when Globe first opened in 2004, they only had a line-up of eight, but I believe that quickly grew thanks to the favourable market conditions.

One other point he makes is that the forums don't drive business, rather it's done by word-of-mouth. Not so sure I agree here. Firstly, how many of us blab to others about our brothel habits? Secondly, I only learned of the wonders of European FKK sauna clubs from reports in a local forum based in a country on the other side of the world. Given the number of views plus positive comments on my reports in that forum describing the unique wonders of Globe, I've sent a lot of business Ingo's way.

His beliefs seem a bit dated given how online the world is since the advent of smart phones.

[ShoesAndSocks]

I know this is the Zurich thread, but I'm posting this here as the Lugano thread seems dead ...

The recent Ingo video about costs of getting clubs up & running made me think about the two Lugano clubs - Iceberg and Maison Rouge - that Imperium acquired. They are in adjacent buildings.

The website of Maison Rouge seems abandoned, and Google Maps has it as temporarily closed.

The link for Iceberg takes you to a website for J-Club Wellness (same address in Lugano). It talks about a club, a hotel, wellness area, restaurant. Sounds rather like Wellcum in Austria. I think back to that video of Ingo flying over to visit Wellcum. Was that a scouting trip to see how Wellcum was operating near the Italian/Austrian border?

However, there are no photos of club interior, hotel rooms, or any of the wellness facilities. The Wellness page says "Come to us from 2025, Stay tuned". I read elsewhere back in March about Iceberg transforming into the first sauna club in Italian Switzerland. This website looks like that sort of place, yet the lack of photos suggests it doesn't yet exist. Maybe one of the buildings is being converted into the hotel and it's merging into a single sauna club.

Any of you Swiss guys know anything about this? Ever head down that way?

[ShoesAndSocks]

Thanks for highlighting.

If you could summarize a few bullets on "the costs" for us non-german speakers.

The guaranteeing first year almost sounds like banker comp.

In YouTube, if you turn on the Subtitles/CC option and select German to English auto-translate, you get a decent translation of the Swiss German they are speaking. This is what I am able to get out of it.

First point Ingo makes is the current market is saturated. I take that to mean there aren't enough customers for the existing clubs, let alone a new/restarted one.

He then mentions how much it would cost to establish a club like Medusa by first ensuring girls sign up and stick around long enough to hopefully attract a loyal client base ...
- 25 girls need a guaranteed 1,000 francs per day, with 200 coming from clients and the remaining 800 from the club.
- monthly 25 x 800 x 30 = 600,000 francs (650,000 including VAT).
- over first 6 months (or maybe stretched to 12 months if the club starts to fire and 50% ends up coming from growing attendance) you're looking at near 4M francs to keep the girls happy.
- you want to pay this only to "good" performers, and finding them is a further challenge.
- no bank would loan this money.

He doesn't mention it, probably because it's obvious, but there would be other costs like staff wages, advertising, etc.

Establishing a brand new club ...
- 1,000 square metres at 4,000 francs per sqm = 4M to build/outfit a new club.
- very difficult but maybe possible to arrange a bank loan (not so much these days as in the past).

So, 8M to try and get a new club up & running. I'd guess more like 10M all-up.

Given all that, he then mentions at the end that he is constantly looking for a property around the Bern region so he could capture the "west" market from Cleo, Freubad. Video seemed cut short at this stage, so looks like more to come.

I found all this interesting as I've always thought you would have to adopt this "guaranteed earnings" model to get a club going. Ten years ago I could imagine someone (but certainly not me!) trying this, but today I think there would be much less risky options to get a decent ROI on 10M francs.

One other point he makes is that the forums don't drive business, rather it's done by word-of-mouth. Not so sure I agree here. Firstly, how many of us blab to others about our brothel habits? Secondly, I only learned of the wonders of European FKK sauna clubs from reports in a local forum based in a country on the other side of the world. Given the number of views plus positive comments on my reports in that forum describing the unique wonders of Globe, I've sent a lot of business Ingo's way.

[KaveMan]

He covers the costs involved with starting up a new club and/or re-starting in an existing property, including guaranteeing earnings for girls during the first year. The numbers are daunting, and in the current environment I'd say the chances of a new club starting up in Zurich anytime soon are pretty much zero.

Thanks for highlighting.

If you could summarize a few bullets on "the costs" for us non-german speakers.

The guaranteeing first year almost sounds like banker comp.

[ShoesAndSocks]

Not a surprise. After the opening they never had more than 8 girls, with very little rotation of the lineup. I still believe if they would have rotated the top 30% girls from Freubad chain, they would have had a chance.

So we are back to the old situation in Zurich, not enough competition.

There is a very interesting new video under Ingo's YouTube channel discussing the demise of Club Medusa.

He covers the costs involved with starting up a new club and/or re-starting in an existing property, including guaranteeing earnings for girls during the first year. The numbers are daunting, and in the current environment I'd say the chances of a new club starting up in Zurich anytime soon are pretty much zero.

No wonder that BITCCI outfit never got close to establishing a single club.

[DwayneJohnson]

Can anyone please let me know about seeking sugarbaby price range? I mean what's considered as an acceptable pay per meet allowance. I tried seeking in Nordic region and 400 euro per short meeting (dinner date+sex) was considered good enough for most of the girls. Zurich being more expensive in terms of cost of living, I would think seeking girls will look for more money but not sure what should be my initial offer that they don't dismiss it right away.

[PaulInZurich]

I was a big proponent for legalized prostitution, but everywhere where it is legal now, the prices are going out of control. Obviously Switzerland it's pricey enough that it's beyond the reach of normal people.

I disagree with this. I don't think that price increases are linked to prostitution being legal. Prices in Switzerland were much much higher before 2005 let's say. Since then prices are pretty stable.

Prostitution out of reach of normal people? There are clubs where it's CHF 90 for 30 minutes. Of course, don't expect supermodels working there. An unqualified worker in a supermarket makes CHF 4400 per month.

[Sirioja]

Was in Aphro last Thursday evening, quite busy around 10 pm, was informed by one of the girls some guys party right through the night and day, as long as +24 hrs! Moneybags eh.

After club closing at 3 am? Yes, I think many guys come more for partying with cocaine than for fucking. Easier for girls pussy. I remember when Globe staff waited for us, when we finished and showered after 3 am. Light was on in club, like at Wellcum on this Summer.

[Toki Jo]

Investment bankers or engineers, high powered executives or even doctors, they're all the same. When no one is watching, they are as degenerate as any of us. Even more so, cause they can afford much more than any of us peasants can. It's a sad existence for a lot of us without money, I always say, it's not so much I wish I was dead, it's more I wish I was never born.

Was in Aphro last Thursday evening, quite busy around 10 pm, was informed by one of the girls some guys party right through the night and day, as long as +24 hrs! Moneybags eh.