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  1. #20600
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorbonne  [View Original Post]
    ...BTW, according to my US friend in Japan they have been doing virus tests at the Tokyo airport ever since March. There are several hours of waiting at the airport to get tested. It takes two days to get the results. So then they move everybody to nearby hotels for 2 days, with food provided, for free. Then the positive incomers are sent to hospitals and the negative incomers still have to quarantine themselves for the next 12 days at their own cost (I don't know the reason for this 12 days quarantine)...
    AFAIK, there are 2 categories of COVID tests. PCR and Antibodies. Doctors and educated Scientists feel free to correct me please.

    Just like HIV, Ebola, SARS, MERS, etc. , COVID is RNA virus.

    PCR tries to match viral RNA fragment. For many reasons PCR tests may result in false negatives, such is the nature of PCR.

    One reason is mutations in viral RNA. Another reason is test sensitivity, what concentration can it detect. Russian tests were about 100 times less sensitive in March, and missed a lot.

    Tests for antibodies may detect different types of antibodies.

    Two most important types are IgM and IgG.

    IgM indicates that the person has been recently infected, and the immune system started ramping up, producing to the best of its ability response specific for this infection to fight it.

    IgG indicates that the person had been vaccinated (in case of well known infectious diseases, such as Hep A or B), or had been sick in the past, overcame the sickness, and his immune system is now much better prepared to fight the sickness upon encountering it again. A person vaccinated in the past typically has much lower concentration of IgG, which only so-called quantitative test can catch. Recently recovered or fully blown case has significantly higher IgG count, and even express or qualitative test can detect it.

    Do IgG antibodies work reliably against COVID is not known yet. It is not clear if COVID survivor may get reinfected.

    Israel has separate COVID tests for IgM and IgG antibodies.

    Not sure what test they do in Japan. But both PCR and Antibodies may not catch it in the beginning (false negative), and yet provide a true positive 12 days later. Japanese healthcare is good.

    Now, to increase testing performance, labs may pool testing samples. For example HIV testing these days routinely mixes samples of multiple persons.

    For example 10 candidates come into the lab to have their blood drawn for HIV tests. Every single candidate has his blood drawn twice, or rather split into 2 identical samples. A and be. Then 10 A samples are mixed together and tested once. If the result is negative all 10 are free to go. If it is positive, then 10 secondary samples are tested individually.

    There is a compromise for an optimal number of candidates in the pool to make it beneficial for large data sets, let's say during a regular day at the large airport.

    Bottom line, they can speed it up, but even if you are not sick and happen to be pooled with an unfortunate one, then it may take twice as long.

    Female friend of mine in Kiev says that test can be done at the departure location. 100-150 euro. At the departure airport or at the clinic one day before the departure.

    I concur with MisterXXX, even with the best of intentions Ukrainians will fuck it up.

    There was a video in March 2020 of UA National Guard trying to hold arriving Ukrainian citizens at Borispyl, and passengers disregarding any orders and precautions leaving on Uber, Yandex, Uklon, their friends and family transportation.

  2. #20599
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterxxx  [View Original Post]
    A month ago, the minister didn't want to let Ukrainians out of the country. At least until a vaccine is found. Ukrainians should spend the summer vacation in Ukraine. Half a million jobs should be created.

    What is left of the plans? Nothing.

    You can't do millions of virus tests. Logistically impossible. The ministers in Greece and Turkey have already seen this. That is why tourists will soon be allowed into the country without a test.

    A virus test must be done professionally. It takes more time than passport control. An airplane is coming. The next plane. The next plane. Twenty, thirty, a hundred planes a day. The passengers have to wait. There is no space in the terminal on days with a lot of traffic. Now people have to keep their distance. Do you want to set up tents? Recruit medical personnel. Buy test equipment?

    What I think? Neither comes, or: At the end, a quick, unsafe self-test is introduced. Which the passengers carry out themselves. Five minutes later, a doctor looks at the result and collects $ 100. That's Ukraine.
    Agreed.

    True, Ukrainians should take vacations in Ukraine. But unfortunately I hear there are no more nice beaches in Ukraine. Beaches in Odessa are "infested" with seaweeds due to global warming.

    And I guess when Turkey opens border to Ukrainians, the Ukrainian government can't say you can't go there. I believe Greece has not included Ukraine in the countries to which they will open border on June 15, but Wizz Air is already selling tickets from Kiev to Greece after June 15.

    BTW, according to my US friend in Japan they have been doing virus tests at the Tokyo airport ever since March. There are several hours of waiting at the airport to get tested. It takes two days to get the results. So then they move everybody to nearby hotels for 2 days, with food provided, for free. Then the positive incomers are sent to hospitals and the negative incomers still have to quarantine themselves for the next 12 days at their own cost (I don't know the reason for this 12 days quarantine). But I'm not sure how many people are coming to Japan everyday. Not many. The flights between Japan and the USA has been reduced, but there are some everyday ever since March.

    I also heard in Russia that they did tests at airports in March and put the incomers not at hotels but at hostels! I'm not sure if they are still doing this today.

  3. #20598
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterxxx  [View Original Post]
    A month ago, the minister didn't want to let Ukrainians out of the country. At least until a vaccine is found. Ukrainians should spend the summer vacation in Ukraine. Half a million jobs should be created.

    What is left of the plans? Nothing.

    You can't do millions of virus tests. Logistically impossible. The ministers in Greece and Turkey have already seen this. That is why tourists will soon be allowed into the country without a test.

    A virus test must be done professionally. It takes more time than passport control. An airplane is coming. The next plane. The next plane. Twenty, thirty, a hundred planes a day. The passengers have to wait. There is no space in the terminal on days with a lot of traffic. Now people have to keep their distance. Do you want to set up tents? Recruit medical personnel. Buy test equipment?

    What I think? Neither comes, or: At the end, a quick, unsafe self-test is introduced. Which the passengers carry out themselves. Five minutes later, a doctor looks at the result and collects $ 100. That's Ukraine.
    I need to correct you.

    Your totally wrong.

    Borispol Airport have 3 terminals.

    Terminal the which is the big one which is pretty big and in 2 levels.

    Terminal F which is divided in Arriving and departing terminals.

    If all 3 are in use then there would be enough space for test at least couple of 1000 people a day.

    I'm not saying they could test 30.000 people a day but how many people do we think will fly there anyway at the start.

    There are plenty of nurses in Ukraine who can make a Covid19 rapid test, which is what they do in many airports, and then still let you register on the App.

    So its not as impossible as you say it is.

    If they will do it, probably not, but they will test people with symptoms I'm sure.

    So again this is technically possible, but would be stupid and waste of money.

    Just do like Estonia, set an number that a country have to be under and then let people in, update the number 1 time a week and then people know if they can come.

    Could be expanded to that everyone that have a test that is less then 48 hours old would not be in quranteen and everyone who not have and not want to buy one will need 7-14 days.

  4. #20597
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorbonne  [View Original Post]
    With Wizz Air you can buy "Wizz Flex" and change your flights easily.

    Just a thought, but maybe they can set up canopies somewhere outside the terminals as waiting area for the virus tests. It won't be too cold and wind is welcome. I mean, if the minister said so, he should have some valid way to do so.
    A month ago, the minister didn't want to let Ukrainians out of the country. At least until a vaccine is found. Ukrainians should spend the summer vacation in Ukraine. Half a million jobs should be created.

    What is left of the plans? Nothing.

    You can't do millions of virus tests. Logistically impossible. The ministers in Greece and Turkey have already seen this. That is why tourists will soon be allowed into the country without a test.

    A virus test must be done professionally. It takes more time than passport control. An airplane is coming. The next plane. The next plane. Twenty, thirty, a hundred planes a day. The passengers have to wait. There is no space in the terminal on days with a lot of traffic. Now people have to keep their distance. Do you want to set up tents? Recruit medical personnel. Buy test equipment?

    What I think? Neither comes, or: At the end, a quick, unsafe self-test is introduced. Which the passengers carry out themselves. Five minutes later, a doctor looks at the result and collects $ 100. That's Ukraine.

  5. #20596
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterxxx  [View Original Post]
    The two-week quarantine is still valid. After entering the country, you have to stay in an apartment for two weeks. Supermarket or restaurant? Forbidden. You cannot leave the country in the two weeks. Otherwise: penalty.
    I was basically stuck in my house for two months at home. Order food delivered, work from home, continue language lessons. The weather will be nice. I can work from my balcony.

  6. #20595
    Quote Originally Posted by UkeBoy  [View Original Post]
    No, you are wrong. Read the article again, carefully. The headline states REGULAR scheduled air traffic will start June 15 and these so-called rules will possibly apply to those who will be inward bound.

    Right now, and until that date, there are only repatriation flights outbound and inbound. After that date, airlines are already selling tickets for scheduled flights. But, more importantly, they do not know if they will actually happen, a nice con game to keep your money by then issuing you a voucher instead of a refund to help their cash flow if flights are then cancelled.

    The interview was with the Minister for Infrastructure and he will be the one to finally decide on opening the flights to and from Ukraine and how and when they will exactly happen.

    And I agree, there is no room at any of the airports to hold several hundred or thousand people awaiting test results for four or more hours after arrival either at passport control or luggage pickup. There will be riots if that is the case.
    With Wizz Air you can buy "Wizz Flex" and change your flights easily.

    Just a thought, but maybe they can set up canopies somewhere outside the terminals as waiting area for the virus tests. It won't be too cold and wind is welcome. I mean, if the minister said so, he should have some valid way to do so.

  7. #20594
    Quote Originally Posted by Hestendk  [View Original Post]
    When have you last been in the borispol airport?

    There are plenty of space there especially if they use both terminals.

    They could easy handl 1000 people divided up in both 2 arriving terminals.

    They could even in the main terminal use the lower level d10-16 as I remember.

    That area alone can easy handle at least 300 people in sections.
    A corona test for all passengers takes up a lot of space. This place is not available in Kiev. The departure areas cannot be converted into an arrival and stay area. This is impossible in a short time and costs a lot of money.

    It's not not about 300 or 1000 tests. Borispol had 22,000 passengers a day last year. In summer up to 50,000 passengers a day. A test must be done conscientiously. There must be no contamination or confusion. Personnel are required for the test acceptance. Test evaluation staff. In-between cleaning staff. A total of approx. 200 people for 10,000 tests a day. In two weeks, you won't be able to recruit, train, and install the entire testing mechanism. From next year: no problem. This month? Impossible. This is the half-baked plan of politicians.

  8. #20593
    While they maintain 14 days carantine, is not a sense to travel there.

  9. #20592
    Quote Originally Posted by YummyPL  [View Original Post]
    I understand that lots of land border crossings are now open. Anyone want to test out driving to Kiev and report back?

    I'd be happy if they weren't allowing tourists in. I have a long-stay work visa. But that is just me being selfish.
    The two-week quarantine is still valid. After entering the country, you have to stay in an apartment for two weeks. Supermarket or restaurant? Forbidden. You cannot leave the country in the two weeks. Otherwise: penalty.

  10. #20591
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    Yes, any bonus should be "no strings attached", but of course there is implied reciprocation. It's the same in business. If you have a high-performing employee, you have 3 choices: 1) pay normal salary and risk losing employee to someone else or negatively affecting employee's motivation; 2) raise employee salary; 3) pay normal salary plus end-of-year bonus. Option 3 requires employee to trust you, but if you honor that trust by paying bonus as expected, you earn more trust. Also, option 3 is often cheaper in the long run than option 2, for equivalent results. Finally, option 3 obviously is lower risk for employer compared to option 2, since no bonus if employee leaves mid-year. Bonus is earned during year, so you can't complain if employee leaves immediately after receiving bonus, any more than you can complain if employee leaves after receiving pay increase. Maybe you didn't offer enough bonus / pay increase, or maybe no amount of money would be enough to retain the employee.
    Perfect explanation of a healthy employer-employee or customer-vendor business partnership!

    I lost some good providers by refusing to raise their rate per visit. I especially do not like a direct request incoming from the girl. My thinking is the same. If she is great, I will gladly pay her a bonus myself when I feel the time is right, but please do not force me. And any attempts to explain why she needs more money usually result in her becoming progressively less happy, and leaving on her own or dismissal.

    If she is so sure that she can make more than I pay, then go ahead and make it elsewhere. No reason to keep an unhappy provider going through the motions, while there's a waiting list of females eager to participate in redistribution of my wealth into their pockets and purses.

    The top earner in my harem is the girl that constantly controls and limits my spending on her. Go figure!

    Did I ever regret losing the great ones? You bet! But in Kiev regrets are cured and wounds are healed by applying tried and true medication. Another beauty or two. And more frequently than not those are available. Market is sufficiently saturated.

    To me Ukrainian girls remind ETFs. Exchange Traded Funds. Financial climate changes from "winter" to "spring" and "summer", from bear market back to bulls. Likewise when River Palace was towed away, WhatsApp and Viber materialized, then I learned about GIA, then much more affordable strategy with consolidation agency has been identified, then Instagram became omnipresent. And the same product (girls) is marketed, packaged and sold through more and more new offerings.

    Allocating my attention into multiple investments (girls) helps to ride out local and global storms without paying too much attention to performance of individual ETF components. I do trade with close friends, and some of the girls are equivalent of stable "money market fund" - reliable, easily accessible liquidity. Some beauties remind me aggressive risky stock investments. Return can be great, but the road is frequently bumpy and the girl is high maintenance. Other ladies can be not as marvelous, but I go to their watering well when everything else is dry. Analogies are rich.

  11. #20590
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorbonne  [View Original Post]
    Nothing? It would reduce the chance of getting infected if I made her leave if she was coughing sneezing and / or had high body temperature. Obviously that was the idea.
    My apologies for making mistake.

    I didn't try to say you did wrong. You use precise terminology, reduce not eliminate. It was calculated risk on your side, and I definitely respect that. I am sincerely glad it worked out for you beautifully. Wish I was there with one of my own.

    As I said, perhaps upon arrival to Kiev in August 2019, and many trips before that, I took a similar or even greater risk by having multiple girls day after day. While vaginal sex was protected, DFK and DATY and BBBJ represent sufficient exposure. As my Kiev friend mentioned, he knows there were recent cases of syphilis and other rather unpleasant diseases in the city.

    Actually one of the beautiful ladies that keeps bombarding me with Viber messages states she had corona in March. She didn't test, but all the symptoms were present. She was one of my true favorites. Now I hear that it may stay contagious long after the symptoms are gone. Not that my immune system is compromised or anything, but now I have doubts about meeting her.

  12. #20589
    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoSlider  [View Original Post]
    Simply measuring body temperature and looking for cough / sneeze does nothing.
    Nothing? It would reduce the chance of getting infected if I made her leave if she was coughing sneezing and / or had high body temperature. Obviously that was the idea.

  13. #20588

    Land Border

    I understand that lots of land border crossings are now open. Anyone want to test out driving to Kiev and report back?

    I'd be happy if they weren't allowing tourists in. I have a long-stay work visa. But that is just me being selfish.

  14. #20587
    Quote Originally Posted by UkeBoy  [View Original Post]
    No, you are wrong. Read the article again, carefully. The headline states REGULAR scheduled air traffic will start June 15 and these so-called rules will possibly apply to those who will be inward bound.

    Right now, and until that date, there are only repatriation flights outbound and inbound. After that date, airlines are already selling tickets for scheduled flights. But, more importantly, they do not know if they will actually happen, a nice con game to keep your money by then issuing you a voucher instead of a refund to help their cash flow if flights are then cancelled.

    The interview was with the Minister for Infrastructure and he will be the one to finally decide on opening the flights to and from Ukraine and how and when they will exactly happen.

    And I agree, there is no room at any of the airports to hold several hundred or thousand people awaiting test results for four or more hours after arrival either at passport control or luggage pickup. There will be riots if that is the case.
    When have you last been in the borispol airport?

    There are plenty of space there especially if they use both terminals.

    They could easy handl 1000 people divided up in both 2 arriving terminals.

    They could even in the main terminal use the lower level d10-16 as I remember.

    That area alone can easy handle at least 300 people in sections.

  15. #20586
    Quote Originally Posted by Misterxxx  [View Original Post]
    These are tourist charter flights. No scheduled flights. The corona tests that are taken at the airport are about Ukrainians who come back home.

    Such flights cannot be bought by foreigners to fly to Ukraine for a few days + It doesn't work with thousands of people on scheduled flights. There is no waiting space for this at the airport.
    No, you are wrong. Read the article again, carefully. The headline states REGULAR scheduled air traffic will start June 15 and these so-called rules will possibly apply to those who will be inward bound.

    Right now, and until that date, there are only repatriation flights outbound and inbound. After that date, airlines are already selling tickets for scheduled flights. But, more importantly, they do not know if they will actually happen, a nice con game to keep your money by then issuing you a voucher instead of a refund to help their cash flow if flights are then cancelled.

    The interview was with the Minister for Infrastructure and he will be the one to finally decide on opening the flights to and from Ukraine and how and when they will exactly happen.

    And I agree, there is no room at any of the airports to hold several hundred or thousand people awaiting test results for four or more hours after arrival either at passport control or luggage pickup. There will be riots if that is the case.

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