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  1. #21155

    99.9 % and plausible deniability

    I hope my comment about that statistic was actually posted. If it did not, the punchline was that 99.9% of all statistics that say 99.9% are made up on the spot. I do not know the actual figure; it could be 50% to 80 %, know knows, depending on the economy.

    How do you make the transition? Well, the same as with any other woman. You suggest to go up to your place.

    If she is a pro, she will immediately quote her price. You can then negotiate and ask specifically what is included. Remember to negotiate in the local currency and bring her down to a reasonable level. 2000 UAh ought to be more than enough.

    If she is a semi-pro, she will dance around a little more. You can say that "you will make it worth her time" or "you can buy her something nice the next day", or " you will be really nice to her", or "you can give her a small gift that you brought from your country", or "you can help her with her university tuition", or "you can compensate her for the time she will lose from work in the morning", or "you will give her money to buy a nice dress for your next date", or whatever along those lines. She will know exactly what you are both talking about. By the way, if you did not get it, she already has a nice dress. She will just pocket your money. I assume that you are not stupid enough to go on the expensive date. Just invite her back to your place and give her the same amount "for another dress". By the way, a "nice dress" costs between 1000 to 2000 UAH.

    If she is among the 1% of girls who refuse money for sex (no drinks, no dinners, no jewelry, no shopping trips, etc), give her about 500 UAH "for her taxi" in the morning. She will take it.

    Have western men completely lost the ability to use sexual innuendo? Has feminism ruined everything? Are you permanently afraid that any sexual innuendo or double entendre will get you fired? Labelled as a sexual predator? Ruin your career? Well, leave those attitudes at home and thank god that you are not in your country. Jesus!

  2. #21154

    Strip club hours

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    I don't go to strip clubs, but I have a social activity. At 10 pm, we close blackout curtains, turn off lights outside, lock the front door, with guard stationed to open door when people want to get in or out. Activity continues until 2 am or later. Supposedly, other nightclubs do the same thing..
    I checked with my local guide, and the strip clubs are open from 8 pm to 6 am, so it's business as usual for them.

  3. #21153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    I don't go to strip clubs, but I have a social activity. At 10 pm, we close blackout curtains, turn off lights outside, lock the front door, with guard stationed to open door when people want to get in or out. Activity continues until 2 am or later. Supposedly, other nightclubs do the same thing.

    There is also talk of renaming nightclubs as churches, since gatherings in churches unrestricted because of their political power. So maybe they'll rename strip clubs as Temples of Pussy Worship. In the USA, some politician called his Thanksgiving day feast a turkey funeral, since limits on number of people higher for funerals than other gatherings.
    So fun goes on in Kiev as previously. Really enjoyable. Here in Turkey weekend total lockdown and weekdays 9 pm to 5 am also. It sounds nice to be in Kiev.

  4. #21152
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg27  [View Original Post]
    Thanks for the reply. As far as I understand strip clubs are also closing at 10 pm. So It is really a short time period to enjoy there.
    I don't go to strip clubs, but I have a social activity. At 10 pm, we close blackout curtains, turn off lights outside, lock the front door, with guard stationed to open door when people want to get in or out. Activity continues until 2 am or later. Supposedly, other nightclubs do the same thing.

    There is also talk of renaming nightclubs as churches, since gatherings in churches unrestricted because of their political power. So maybe they'll rename strip clubs as Temples of Pussy Worship. In the USA, some politician called his Thanksgiving day feast a turkey funeral, since limits on number of people higher for funerals than other gatherings.

  5. #21151
    Quote Originally Posted by VinDici  [View Original Post]
    Quarantine measures:

    A face mask is recommended when you are indoors in public places, although the level of enforcement varies greatly.

    Restaurants are closed for dine-in on weekends, Bars are totally closed on weekends.

    During the week, restaurants and bars can stay open until 10 pm for dine in / on premises drinking.

    There are speakeasies if you have contacts, yes I did find some, and no I have no clue how to describe how you would get to them. My advice would to contact a local guide and they will show you the way. These would be your best way in to "freebies" I would wager.

    Strip clubs are for sure doing business and my local contact has good connections with them as well as a discount for the Harem strip club. Although if I am really honest, if you need a discount for entry to a strip club, you're maybe not going to be able to afford what's inside.

    I did not go to any bars nor strip clubs in the end, preferring to go the easy route of booking an indie or salon girl.
    Thanks for the reply. As far as I understand strip clubs are also closing at 10 pm. So It is really a short time period to enjoy there.

  6. #21150
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg27  [View Original Post]
    My friend,

    Really nice post. Thanks for sharing. I will really appreciate if you can share the quarantine measures also. I mean what time is the off time for restaurants? Weekdays weekend? How is the situation for night clubs? What about strip clubs? Honestly I am planning a trip for freebies priorly and for my other days I wish to pop up that strip clubs. There were really nice ones. I had incredible memories with 20 s old strippers. 5-10 of them in a suburban neighbourhood and I was one of a few customers. A lot of attention. Very warm behaviours in private room. Cheap champagne and sushi. Life to live before pandemy. Anyway. I just have very good memories there. Regarding your trip 1000 grivna makes 35 USD even for me (A turkish man paid in invaluable TRY) it is an unbeliavably low price. This is definitely heaven. For an english man like you I can't dream off. Anyway nice to hear you enjoed.
    Quarantine measures:

    A face mask is recommended when you are indoors in public places, although the level of enforcement varies greatly.

    Restaurants are closed for dine-in on weekends, Bars are totally closed on weekends.

    During the week, restaurants and bars can stay open until 10 pm for dine in / on premises drinking.

    There are speakeasies if you have contacts, yes I did find some, and no I have no clue how to describe how you would get to them. My advice would to contact a local guide and they will show you the way. These would be your best way in to "freebies" I would wager.

    Strip clubs are for sure doing business and my local contact has good connections with them as well as a discount for the Harem strip club. Although if I am really honest, if you need a discount for entry to a strip club, you're maybe not going to be able to afford what's inside.

    I did not go to any bars nor strip clubs in the end, preferring to go the easy route of booking an indie or salon girl.

  7. #21149
    Quote Originally Posted by Turmpeldor123  [View Original Post]
    Hello,

    I am a beginner here, could you explain to me what SA is?
    SA is Seeking Arrangements. Think of it as a sugar daddy matching service, although in practice YMMV.

  8. #21148

    Sa

    Hello,

    I am a beginner here, could you explain to me what SA is?

  9. #21147
    Quote Originally Posted by VinDici  [View Original Post]
    It has been a much less eventful week than I had hoped for. I underestimated the difficulty of booking indies as opposed to just rocking up to apartments. I am very particular about the type of escort I engage, although not in the sense that many on this forum may suspect.



    Now that I have some experience in Kyiv, I'd like to come back again. I'm sure I'll be able to make a more efficient trip the next time, and my Russian can only improve from here.
    My friend,

    Really nice post. Thanks for sharing. I will really appreciate if you can share the quarantine measures also. I mean what time is the off time for restaurants? Weekdays weekend? How is the situation for night clubs? What about strip clubs? Honestly I am planning a trip for freebies priorly and for my other days I wish to pop up that strip clubs. There were really nice ones. I had incredible memories with 20 s old strippers. 5-10 of them in a suburban neighbourhood and I was one of a few customers. A lot of attention. Very warm behaviours in private room. Cheap champagne and sushi. Life to live before pandemy. Anyway. I just have very good memories there. Regarding your trip 1000 grivna makes 35 USD even for me (A turkish man paid in invaluable TRY) it is an unbeliavably low price. This is definitely heaven. For an english man like you I can't dream off. Anyway nice to hear you enjoed.

  10. #21146

    Closure of Kyiv trip

    It has been a much less eventful week than I had hoped for. I underestimated the difficulty of booking indies as opposed to just rocking up to apartments. I am very particular about the type of escort I engage, although not in the sense that many on this forum may suspect.

    My taste is for MILFs with curvy shapes, so bait and switch is not really as much of an issue for me, older and curvier is good for me. My main concern is hygiene, reliability and level of service. I have found that in Kiev hygiene is not an issue, each girl I have booked with always freshened up before the action, and did not have issues in general. Reliability has been good too, with outcalls arriving on time, and service has been as promised each time.

    I have had one booking each day, although the goal was to have more, logistically it was a nightmare, hence only managing one.

    For some idiot reason, the SIM I bought did not support SMS sending, I have no idea if I can receive. This meant that without Russian language skills, I could only contact girls with message services, as calling them was out of the question. I tried once and it was a disaster.

    I have accounts on Telegram, WhatsApp and Viber.

    Using these and Google Translate, I contacted as many indies from my hotlist as I could. Responses were varied, some blocked straight away, others read but did not reply, some replied and revealed themselves as Salons, and others were amenable to a booking, sometimes however only incall was available no matter what incentive I offered.

    I used 2 Salons / Apartments, both were great.

    I always end up paying triple the quoted prices, as I require quite a few extras, OWO / BBBJ, 69 always costs extra for some reason and kissing. I'm not into pump and dump meets, although if I had been, the Salon option would have been cheap and readily available, as the price would always be 1000 UAH for an hour. However with all my extras I have been paying around 3000 UAH per meet, less (considerably less) for indies.

    Given my service requirements the girls were nearly always bemused, I am a one shot guy, and they are used to guys trying to get 2 or 3 finishes in meetings, I communicated this upfront so we could go at a more relaxed pace, and after some initial hesitation, they got into the swing of things.

    Late into the trip, I was supplied the contact information of a local guy who could help me make some bookings. After a couple of false starts, I managed to meet him, and he did make a call and successful booking on my behalf. I made a deal with him, that for each call / booking that he made on my behalf, that ended in either a confirmed booking, or a handoff, so that I could continue the discussion directly myself, he would be paid a commission. He was happy with the arrangement, as was I, and so far I have one booking to thank him for, although I will try for one more.

    I did find some local speakeasys, but did not have the energy to hang out and try my luck with locals, preferring instead to try to pay for a sure thing. Perhaps when I return post COVID, this will be a better option, during the lockdown, it was a lot of effort to find these places, and no guarantee of the kind of clientele you might find there.

    If someone wants the details for the Salons I used, send a pm, there were all shapes and ages on offer, so you will likely find what you are looking for. One tip I did get for outcall, was rather than agreeing extras upfront, book the outcall and negotiate the extras in the room, there might be more flexibility.

    Now that I have some experience in Kyiv, I'd like to come back again. I'm sure I'll be able to make a more efficient trip the next time, and my Russian can only improve from here.

  11. #21145

    Last nights in Kyiv

    Went to Harem stip club, it's loaded with young beauties, may be around 30. Entrance was 500 uah, however you can sometimes get half price on slower days, try to let them approach you near the door inside arena.

    Out of many apts I liked one on mechnykova st 6. You get thorough massage and good oral before sex. In my 2 times there, the girls worked and earned the amount, 1600 uah each time. The girl selection is moderate; you can find prettier girls elsewhere so its balance of beauty vs service / attitude.

    I had mixed experience with mamba. I did find a student from mamba and had session with her twice, in fact she is the only girl I repeated ever. I also found an 25 year old Arabic girl who has a day job but she sometimes work to earn extra cash. Lot of hit and miss on mamba.

    Comparatively SA girls are more expensive and high quality. I learnt from one girl that they have to pay 600 uah to get listed on SA. I took 3 separate girls out for dinner from SA. Only 1 I was able to lure back home.

    Weekend Quarantine:

    Kyiv has weekend quarantine, and daily after 8 pm. Meaning restaurants, bars, shops everything is supposed to be shut. Half or most strip clubs still work, using backdoors or quick entry thru front door. Dubai restaurant in arena also works but has 500 uah minimum per person spending requirement. There are few other restaurants still open during quarantine.

  12. #21144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    Money can often turn maybe into yes. Try the following procedure. Ask the girl if she would like to meet you in person for drinks. Or, if you just met her in the street and it's harsh weather outside, ask if she wants to continue the conversation indoors. Then YOU choose the venue. Either nearest coffee shop, or typical mid-priced bar/restaurant with drinks for under 100uah, or fancy place like Avalon in center city of she's a recent arrival from some village and you want to show her how the oligarchs live. Wherever you go, tip decently, especially if you plan to return.

    After talking a bit, if she seems like a good prospect, invite her to your apartment. Before she can accept/refuse the invitation, explain that you are an older foreigner and tourist, and as such, it would shameful for both of you (you = cheapskate, girl = naive fool) if she visited you and didn't get a nice gift afterwards, but of course you don't want to insult her by discussing the proposed gift unless she is interested. If she is interested, state clearly how much you will pay, what services you absolutely need, and then explain clearly that money will be counted out and placed on table when you emerge from bathroom (I assume you take your wallet into bathroom) and remain there until she leaves, and that she will not be forced to do anything she isn't comfortable with and can leave the apartment early if she wants, but in that case she doesn't get the gift.
    Thanks Koz that's a very well thought out and well written guide to working the regular girl angle. But I was never great at dating and don't think I'd be good at that either. Guess I prefer to just go to an apartment, point at a girl and have my dick inside of her within a few minutes.

  13. #21143
    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    That is correct and absolutely no need offend somebody like a fool. However, if you get the "look", follow up.
    Well if it's correct that 99.9 percent are not interested in P4 P then rather than look for that one in a thousand or even one in one hundred I'll just continue doing a couple pro apartments girls each day I'm in Kyiv. And I'll keep my eyes open in case by chance I stumble into that rare one with that "look" in her eyes LOL. Or one with more groceries than she can handle herself.

  14. #21142
    Quote Originally Posted by ExpatLover  [View Original Post]
    May be you have to come to the basics: how to seduce a woman, 99.9% of the girls are not prostitutes so money will not work.
    That is correct and absolutely no need offend somebody like a fool. However, if you get the "look", follow up.

  15. #21141
    Quote Originally Posted by ExpatLover  [View Original Post]
    May be you have to come to the basics: how to seduce a woman, 99.9% of the girls are not prostitutes so money will not work.
    Money can often turn maybe into yes. Try the following procedure. Ask the girl if she would like to meet you in person for drinks. Or, if you just met her in the street and it's harsh weather outside, ask if she wants to continue the conversation indoors. Then YOU choose the venue. Either nearest coffee shop, or typical mid-priced bar/restaurant with drinks for under 100uah, or fancy place like Avalon in center city of she's a recent arrival from some village and you want to show her how the oligarchs live. Wherever you go, tip decently, especially if you plan to return.

    After talking a bit, if she seems like a good prospect, invite her to your apartment. Before she can accept/refuse the invitation, explain that you are an older foreigner and tourist, and as such, it would shameful for both of you (you = cheapskate, girl = naive fool) if she visited you and didn't get a nice gift afterwards, but of course you don't want to insult her by discussing the proposed gift unless she is interested. If she is interested, state clearly how much you will pay, what services you absolutely need, and then explain clearly that money will be counted out and placed on table when you emerge from bathroom (I assume you take your wallet into bathroom) and remain there until she leaves, and that she will not be forced to do anything she isn't comfortable with and can leave the apartment early if she wants, but in that case she doesn't get the gift.

    Each guy has to figure out his own way of stating the above expectations and procedures, based on how much bluntness the girl can take. To avoid problems, avoid ambiguity. That is, explain everything very clearly upfront so the girl has no excuse for not understanding.

    I'm leaving out a lot of steps. Maybe you need several dates before inviting to your apartment. Maybe you don't want to discuss cash amounts amd services and not define "gift" or conditions under which gift will be given. My thinking is that, assuming the girl is interested in you without money, adding 2000 UAH sweetens the deal and makes her very careful about shit-testing you, wasting your time, etc.

    I went the opposite way, and converted an escort to a sugar baby. I took a two week break from her recently, without explaining why, after accidentally on purpose letting her glance at a Viber message with smiley from my pretty young Russian instructor. Now that we are back together, certain disagreeable attitude I noticed in her previously has completely disappeared. Maybe she missed my golden dick or my super seduction skills during that two week break. Or maybe it was the 5000 uah I give her each visit.

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