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  1. #19686
    Quote Originally Posted by TinyHippo  [View Original Post]
    ...Follow local customs when you are not in your home country.
    Local customs in Kiev are to extort as much money as possible from visitors that allow that.

    On that subject, I am sorry, but I align with Stevie. I am not a walking ATM to get milked by whoever feels entitled.

  2. #19685
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie69  [View Original Post]
    ...You guys are talking about agencies, them sending you uglies, and being black-listed. I think we are playing a different game. I deal with independents, not agencies, part timers, not professionals...
    True indeed. Independents often arrive on foot / by metro, and if they ever ask about taxi fare, it is done during remote negotiations / courtship phase via Viber. If it is reasonable, I agree. My regular contacts do not discuss taxi fare. Some even insist on paying themselves.

    If I like girl's performance and personality, I may give her 100 UAH taxi fare or even a bigger tip upon departure. If, however she begs for taxi fare "because it's always like that", or tells her story about crying babies at home and other shit, then it's a sure way to get a firm "No" and "Bye".

    As far as walking around in high heels. Yeah, it's hilarious! Last December, upon completing the deed, my lady of the hour happened to walk back to the base in high heels, a G-string, light skirt, and no pantyhose. All the way to the base about 15-20 minutes in minus 15 Celsius, roughly +5 Fahrenheit! Essentially bare ass. Totally stupid behavior!

    And yeah, her high heels were clattering on centuries old cobblestone along the remnants of the 10th century city fortress walls descending from Golden Gates to Maidan. But she was a rare exception, because around 7 am in the morning no other orders were expected, their driver retired till 9-10 am when new troops were expected to wake up, and she was just plain crazy.

  3. #19684
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    If taxi fare you agreed to is high, and you have shown yourself willing to pay taxi fare each time you send girls back for whatever reason, then agency figures they can earn a little extra by alternating bad girls with good, so as to earn these extra taxi fares. Bad business, because it just pisses customers off in the long run, but that's Kyiv agency thinking.

    If you don't pay the taxi fare several times in succession, that will definitely make the agency block you, as will yelling at them when you figure out the scam they are running. Best thing is to follow Photoslider's 100 uah rule. And fight for that price up front, on your initial order with the agency, so you don't have to renegotiate on subsequent orders.

    There are also scam agencies which send truly hideous girls, knowing you'll reject. At 200 uah per scam and 1 scam per hour, then profit of 100 if actual taxi is 100.100 uah per hour is enough money in Kyiv to support two poor people running such a scam. If actual taxi is 50, and you agree to 100, then profit only 50 per hour, which is close to unfeasible for two people..
    Wow, this is one scam I did not know about. Some of the girls online or the dating agency will ask for way more, ($25-50), but I never thought about someone doing it for a couple of bucks, not a very glamorous way to make a living. I guess if you can do 5-10, in a shift it is a decent nights wage in Kiev. I was primarily meeting girls at the clubs and apartments, so this was not an issue.

    You guys must have an incredible pain tolerance to put up with the BS you guys tolerate. In Mexico I have almost had no issues with scams. Maybe have to turn away 1 or 2, out of 10 away at the door. Russia even better, maybe 1 out of 10, if even that and as far as scams almost nothing just to give some examples. Both in Mexico / Russia the girls are better looking in person, then there pictures, this almost never happened in Kiev.

  4. #19683

    Rude American woman.

    With some people, differences of opinion always get personal.

    I will not go somewhere else. I like Ukraine. I am just sharing what I think have been my keys to success, regardless of where I am from.

    I am nothing like an American woman. For one think, I am not as fat!

    You guys are talking about agencies, them sending you uglies, and being black-listed. I think we are playing a different game. I deal with independents, not agencies, part timers, not professionals. I also get a new number every time I go, so even if I dealt with agencies, they would find it hard to blacklist me. And if the photos do not match the person who shows up, hey get rejected. No questions asked, no taxi fare, not even metro fare.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyHippo  [View Original Post]
    The taxi fee is separate in case you turn the girl away. It is how things are done in Ukraine. If you do not like it, go somewhere else.

    I do not know where you are from, but you remind me of an American woman I saw in Prague yelling at a waitress for not speaking English. Follow local customs when you are not in your home country.

  5. #19682
    Quote Originally Posted by DramaFree11  [View Original Post]
    Just to Clarify you are arguing with agencies and girls over $3. Probably not a good decision, especially if you are a newbie. You need to pick your battles, remember if you cause issues agencies they will block you. This makes zero sense to me.
    If taxi fare you agreed to is high, and you have shown yourself willing to pay taxi fare each time you send girls back for whatever reason, then agency figures they can earn a little extra by alternating bad girls with good, so as to earn these extra taxi fares. Bad business, because it just pisses customers off in the long run, but that's Kyiv agency thinking.

    If you don't pay the taxi fare several times in succession, that will definitely make the agency block you, as will yelling at them when you figure out the scam they are running. Best thing is to follow Photoslider's 100 uah rule. And fight for that price up front, on your initial order with the agency, so you don't have to renegotiate on subsequent orders.

    There are also scam agencies which send truly hideous girls, knowing you'll reject. At 200 uah per scam and 1 scam per hour, then profit of 100 if actual taxi is 100.100 uah per hour is enough money in Kyiv to support two poor people running such a scam. If actual taxi is 50, and you agree to 100, then profit only 50 per hour, which is close to unfeasible for two people.

    Regarding airport taxi fares, note that bus 322 costs 100 uah from central train station. That bus is standing room only, mostly airport workers, sweltering hot in summer. I take it myself if I am not in a hurry. It makes no sense that a private taxi would cost the same for two people as two bus 322 fares. Also Uklon fares ARE local fares. Maybe an unaffiliated taxi might undercut Uklon by 10-20%, but not 40% or more. Uber is more expensive, unless using that discount mentioned in another post.

  6. #19681
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie69  [View Original Post]
    More like 4, or 8, and / or 10-20 % of the price, but that is not the point. The price, whatever it is, ought to be all-inclusive.

    And though shall only think in local currency.
    The taxi fee is separate in case you turn the girl away. It is how things are done in Ukraine. If you do not like it, go somewhere else.

    I do not know where you are from, but you remind me of an American woman I saw in Prague yelling at a waitress for not speaking English. Follow local customs when you are not in your home country.

  7. #19680

    Yes, but.

    More like 4, or 8, and / or 10-20 % of the price, but that is not the point. The price, whatever it is, ought to be all-inclusive.

    And though shall only think in local currency.

    Quote Originally Posted by DramaFree11  [View Original Post]
    Just to Clarify you are arguing with agencies and girls over $3. Probably not a good decision, especially if you are a newbie. You need to pick your battles, remember if you cause issues agencies they will block you. This makes zero sense to me.

  8. #19679

    6,66 Euros

    Quote Originally Posted by DramaFree11  [View Original Post]
    Just to Clarify you are arguing with agencies and girls over $3. Probably not a good decision, especially if you are a newbie. You need to pick your battles, remember if you cause issues agencies they will block you. This makes zero sense to me.
    Today 200 UAH is worth 6,66 . To me this is a fair amount which can serve as a cancellation fee if you don't accept the girl. You could of course in many cases also argue you were promised somebody else or some other idea of a woman. You would therefore be entitled to send her (ever so often: them, because sometimes they send a selection of girls in one car) back without taxi fare.

    But to me the 200 UAH are something like a tax. This is not my country, I am a sex tourist, I don't see any reason why I should be super stingy. If I like the girl I can still spend an hour with her for 1600 or 1800 the 200 included. Which is not a lot of money for an Italian middle class man. Agency girls are rarely in the business for the fun of it so this is another reason to show some respect for the situation. 200 UAH is a currency for this predicament.

    Unfortunately after the loss of Backpage (which used to have great independents) nothing like it ever surfaced (at least I didn't find anything). So agencies via Relaxkiev or similar sites are a feasible way for anybody who does not want to invest into more upscale options like sugar or travel websites. Mamba never really worked very well for me.

  9. #19678

    Kiev next week.

    Can anybody make any personal recommendations from RelaxKiev? Incall is preferred.

    Thanks.

  10. #19677

    Jsut some follow up thoughts

    I hope this does not turn into an all out war of words. Two topics, high heels and taxis.

    Eastern European girls are used to walking long distances on ridiculous; why high heels at least from the time they turn 15. I was once in SPB, like an idiot, waking around in dress shoes instead of sneakers. Tired of walking, I sat on a bench at a corner. A few minutes later, a couple of teenage girls started to gather nearby. No, not for me, they were just meeting at that corner. They were clearly under 18, but dressed like grown-up women. A friendly conversation ensued, and among other things, I asked them how long they had been wearing high heels, and whether they were going to a special party. The answer were since 14 or 15 or so, and no, they were just shopping. Soon the entire group gathered and moved on.

    In any major city there is an area where people walk on weekends, particularly during nice weather. Back and forth the girls go for hours, just enjoying the day, dressed beautifully, and often sporting amazing high heels.

    Girls go to nightclubs and dance vigorously for hours wearing insane high heels.

    I had friend who would not be caught dead with flat shoes. That did not always mean 10 cm, but at least 4 or 5 cm, even for a simple walk to the market. To her, it was just part of being a woman. To me, it is none of the great things about eastern Europe!

    Second, a couple of years ago, I had a girl (who wanted to marry me!) arrange a taxi to the airport for me for 200 UAH. I gave the guy 200 plus all the change I had, maybe 230 UAH. Maybe now the price would have been 230 UAH. Who knows; the point remains. The locals laugh at the prices we pay!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoSlider  [View Original Post]
    I am talking about agency girls. They never use metro, because their bases are downtown, and their own dedicated driver (not taxi) is faster to shuttle, drop off and pick up girls between bases and multiple customers. Walking to / from metro station and going up / down elevator stairs in metro takes much longer.

    However the above is not even a main argument. Girls arrive in high heels fuck-me-shoes, and cannot possible use public transportation in those. The idea is for them to look slutty / attractive for average drunk male monger..

  11. #19676

    100 vs 200.

    Just to Clarify you are arguing with agencies and girls over $3. Probably not a good decision, especially if you are a newbie. You need to pick your battles, remember if you cause issues agencies they will block you. This makes zero sense to me.

  12. #19675
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie69  [View Original Post]
    Why do people negotiate transportation separately? The price, whatever it is, should be all-inclusive. I do not care how they get to my place, as long as they do so at he agreed-upon time. In any case, I assume that in most cases, they will take the metro, not a taxi.
    I am talking about agency girls. They never use metro, because their bases are downtown, and their own dedicated driver (not taxi) is faster to shuttle, drop off and pick up girls between bases and multiple customers. Walking to / from metro station and going up / down elevator stairs in metro takes much longer.

    However the above is not even a main argument. Girls arrive in high heels fuck-me-shoes, and cannot possible use public transportation in those. The idea is for them to look slutty / attractive for average drunk male monger.

    For agency it is logistics and cutting the business delivery cost down, based on multiple mongers and multiple girls spread performing their miracles all over the city. Base is the hub, girls move between customers, sometimes returning to the base. If you are not satisfied, - go with independents. Those do use metro regularly. Agency is interested in what is convenient to you only if you behave and order a lot. Otherwise you are one of many that will disappear in a few days. Customer service is lacking in Kiev.

    I do not mind random fluctuations in the service level, as long as the girls they eventually deliver are 70% palatable. Why? Because this is not Amazon or Alibaba. I cannot possible imagine ordering girls of such a quality for that little money in my own country of residence. So I am neither daydreaming nor complaining about 100 UAH taxi fee. I am not paying 200 though, because I order enough and 100 x 15 or 20 means having another girl. It also means holding down the greedy pimps, and not feeding inflation.

    I do ask some of the independents to arrive in low or comfortable shoes if we expect to go sightseeing.

  13. #19674
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]

    No way you will get 200 from city center to Borispil.
    Try Uber. They have a special offer. Up to 200 uah discount

    https://www.visa.com.ua/ru_UA/pay-wi...promotion.html

  14. #19673
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie69  [View Original Post]
    Why do people negotiate transportation separately? The price, whatever it is, should be all-inclusive.
    I tried this back when I was grinding through girls. Agency will agree, then when girl shows up, agreement is forgotten and 200 added back on. So now a phone argument with mamasan while standing in the street. I concluded simpler to negotiate upfront 200 for taxi and take harder line on girl's cost, so as to win back some of all of that 200. After reading Photoslider's reasoning below, I would now use his 100 number.

    With independents, yes, you can specify a total price, but be sure to be clear this includes taxi or other transportation in the written Viber conversation. No oral agreements about money or other numbers.

    My jewel is frugal about many things. For example, discusses where she shops cheaply for meat. And she is independent, so it's her money. But she splurges on a taxi, which runs about 150 uah each way according to Uklon, or more at rush hours, since she lives out in suburbs. Meanwhile I walk, at least if under 2 km, to save 8 uah subway fare, though admittedly I like walking. These girls clearly get some sort of thrill from the luxury of being chauffeured around that overrides their usual pragmatism about money. Same as with their beloved manicures and other beauty treatments. Women everywhere love small luxuries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie69  [View Original Post]
    Besides, 200 UAh is the real price (not the foreigner price) all the way from the airport, so how far are these girls coming from?
    No way you will get 200 from city center to Borispil. Two years ago, I arranged with 3 cheapskate-looking Ukrainian guys to split a broken down cab from Kharkivska metro to Borispil for 50 uah each, or 200 total (versus 50 uah each on overcrowded and slower bus 322 back then). From city center it would have been at least 300 then. Last summer it was 320 by myself using Uklon from Podol to Borispil. Currently shows 355 on Uklon, more at rush hours. To Zuhliany, Uklon shows 110 uah currently.

  15. #19672
    Quote Originally Posted by Trent23  [View Original Post]
    OK, but I am a bit hesitating: when a girl is looking for sponsors, is it that I can just cut through the bollocks of chit-chat and ask can we meet? What's your service and what do you charge?

    I am happy to do so, but dunno if I put them off?
    If they ask for a sponsor. Ask them to meet today or tomorrow. If they say: yes! Than talk about price and posibilities. My tip: when you have there number, Always do a videocall. Just to be sure it is the same lasy as on Mamba.

    If the girl is not looking for a sponsor, just ask them directly: what you looking for? If she want to make some money, she will tell you!

    Happy hunting!

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