Seeking Arrangements

[WyattEarp]

Basically, I take the conversation forward in one of two ways: If the girl is hot (normal hot, not WG hot), I try not to have the financial discussion upfront but do meet for a coffee.........

I can understand from the context, but what does WG hot mean exactly?

I also presume you meet the hot ones for coffee first before unveiling your desire for carnal pleasure because these "hot" girls are getting chatted up for sex on-line quite regularly. This would be a way to establish some connection first.

[Steve 9696]

I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

In general I think when in doubt post. I mean, people can easily skip posts and some might be interested. In this particular case I think there would be a lot of interested folks. Post away!

[Akibono]

I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

Sure. All information is good. If you can indicate which points are estimates and guesses, the would also be good. But the usually caveat remains. There are only trends. Each girl is different.

[Pessimist]

I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

Would be interesting but numbers w / o context lose their meaning. I mean, even in the same city, I might pay x for a 20 year old pretty blonde, why for 25 year old curvy Latina, and z for <pick some other woman type . And those might change if I am seeing them just once, part of a regular arrangement, etc and some other dude may end up paying something else to the same ladies.

That said, the table would definitely lead to some interesting discussions and that alone is worth seeing the table.

Hope you enjoyed compiling it.

[Ailton]

I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

[Pessimist]

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.

It depends on where you met the girl, right?

As I recall, you are meeting a lot of girls in Beijing but not through SA. Did I get that right?

In that case, their expectations are quite different.

I meet mostly through SA. Such girls have a different expectation. With the SA girls, it is definitely a transaction to a large extent but the trick is not to articulate the transaction in so many words. So, when I first meet the girl for a coffee / drink / dinner whatever that is, I pay for her share as on any date we would but do not give any cash. Some girls (or many) ask upfront if I give them any cash allowance for first meet and I say no, I do not give any allowance for meet and greets as she also benefits from them as much as I do. If they insist, I just ignore them. Some of them come back and say "OK, I will meet for a lunch w / o upfront allowance", and some just block me and move on. Either is fine.

But if the meet and greet goes well and ends up in sex, I do give her the allowance obviously. And the girl knows when she will get allowance and when she won't. No need to enunciate any of this in any words. They are smart, can put two and two together.

But I know it is a different process with girls you meet through non-SA channels, as you do. I did use Tinder a while ago and met a few and for a couple of them gave some gifts as in a traditional sugar babe arrangement but they turned out to be girls with some experience with sugar arrangements. I kinda got worried my identity would blow up on Tinder and left that app since then. SA feels much safer, I will not run into girls I know (and if I do, I can filter them out of course).

[Oneminuteboy]

Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

.....


If you guys are interested in reading more, just let me know and I will try to share my experiences with some other girls.

I'm interested in hearing more. To compare it with my own.

My experience, aside from 1, is that the subject of sex in the same sentence as money is very taboo in my country.
While the subject of money / compensation is no problem, the mention of sex gets response "we'll see how things go".

The 1 good one I met I've seen a couple of times now. We've now gotten to the point that she doesn't expect her PPM fee every time we meet.
Because she trusts me and enjoys the time together. And knows I pay for every thing while we spend time together.
While I still look for a 2nd regular one, she has raised the bar of what I'm willing to accept for a SB. Which only makes things more difficult in my country.



When I look at SB's from Lisbon / Portugal, they are open about the sex part. And mostly easy going.
And the impression I got was that they were looking for a fun time. And didn't quote insane prices.
I had to postpone my trip there due to circumstances but am definitely re-planning due to the small rolodex I built up.

[Steve 9696]

If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?

Thanks sound advice. In the meantime we were chatting tonight and she asked how my day was. I gave her a full account and she said the only thing missing was someone to cuddle. Door open! We chatted some more and I think I charmed her pants off LOL because we are on for later this week with strongly implied hotel time. Cross your fingers.

[Midwestern]

So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?

If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?

[DramaFree11]

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.

Question, I have found the girls that want gifts instead of money seem much more High Maintenance, what do you guys think? This last couple of reports real have me thinking, but I am not sure I am interested if there is not sex in Mexico. The girls that just wanted gifts, real were not looking for sex, in my opinion.

As far as gift they are special to me and I want them to be more meaningful if that makes sense, so I would rather give money.

[Midwestern]

If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.

[Steve 9696]

So still coming off the high of Alexa. Definitely one of my best life experiences. And she's so girlfriendy we chat nearly daily. It's almost like a real relationship.

Meanwhile Layla is kinda ghosting me after I ghosted her while with Alexa. It occurred to me that I've advanced her about $900 more than the sex we've had. So I realized she's not wanting to deal with the $900. Pondering this. Going to be important soon.

Recently also had a date with a stripper (Noelle) and met another on SA and realized the local club might be a place to find a hookup. So I've stopped in a few times. Still holding out a little hope but so far the strippers are proving lame:

1. Isabella is hot and fun. I get her number. Convinces me to do a private dance with her friend. It is of course lame and expensive as almost all US strip clubs are. Nonetheless we text back and forth and agree on a date. Set the time and place and everything. Then day of date she ghosts me.

2. Next day I find Aimee and she is totally new. A good thing. Get her number and try to generate some interest but seems pretty cool. May see her at the club again and see. She seems sweet and impressionable.

3. Arianna. From SA refuses to meet outside the club. Clearly just out to get a champagne room rip-off. Boo.

4. Noelle. This is the girl I had a great date with. She's on stage when I arrive. She says she thought I'the be mad at her but I say let's talk it out. First she contends I came on too strong (uh actually real girls are much more DTF than u) but then admits she will only do "fun time" but no sex. Wants $$ to be arm candy. Uh no. Time waster!

So really the stripper angle has been a bust. But hey window shopping is fun so I may keep it up.

So as I am nursing my wounds at the club after the Noelle fiasco I text Layla and say just tell me ur ok and she says shes been stressing about money and car repairs and all. So now, knowing my options are limited, I know what I have to do if I wanna get back in the game and say you can keep the $900 and if u ever wanna hook up hit me up and what do U know? She says what are u doing right now? Hahaha that was easy.

I tell her Ive only got a half hour but ten minutes later we go do a BJ in the car and I give her a small amount. It’s naughty and quick after blue balls and b*tches in the club and we are both happy. Then we meet up the next day and do 2 hours of nonstop sex for the usual allowance. So we are back on — pretty much sex in call. ($900 is not a huge amount of money to me and really shes been charging me $100-150 under market since August. And now I have sex on call again. Totally worth it.)

In other developments I've found a girl on the other end of the spectrum. Recent breakup. Never done SA. Manage to get her out on a date by swearing we will not do anything more than kiss (which both put her at ease and put kissing on the menu!) and it went super well. It was a little awkward because she's nervous. But after a bunch of drinks we go for a walk. I stop her and go for a kiss and after two soft close lips kisses the tongues come out and it's full on mackin. We walk back to my car and make out again. Wow. Really good. She's a great and passionate kisser. Felt like if we didn't have the pact it was on.

So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?

[Pessimist]

It is not difficult to separate money and sex during the discussions. I tell them I do give allowance / gifts. In fact I said so in my profile description itself. More than half the guys on SA are freeloaders and girls are assured if you tell them you will give allowance. Then the next question is how much and what is involved. If they ask me, I say the allowance can be help towards some of their expenses such as rent or books or just a cash amount to help out. If they press further, I will give a sense of the range of amounts I have given in the past. SOme ask what they need to do in return. I will keep it very general and will say that "just to get to know each other, how we get along and go from there". Most sensible girls know and realize they are not going to receive hundreds of dollars just for meeting for coffee. Well, if they do that is their problem because I am not giving them any cash after a coffee meet anyway. The important thing to do is never bring up sex explicitly in any discussion. Sooner or later the girl realizes she will see the money only she give it up. And as I said again and again, it is important you enjoy the process. If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.

[DramaFree11]

Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. "..

Wow, amazing report. I learned a lot, thanks for the advice and wisdom.

[Midwestern]

When I decided to go to the casino, I didn't have any intentions of taking the date to her apartment, but somehow we ended up talking about that. I did not have too much time that day and had to get home back soon, so I asked if we can go to her apartment for a preview of our weekend's date and not the full monty. She was on board for that after a bit of coaxing but she thought I thought I mean the same arrangement (250) also to meet tonight. I told her that I cannot stay for a ling time and thus we will not be able to enjoy each other fully, so how about a reduced arrangement of maybe 100-150, for like a blowjob or something like that. To be honest, I made the rookie sugar daddy mistake of thinking in terms of how much I would pay a hooker for a specific time frame. If this was now, I would have treated it differently.

Anyways, she was kind of ok with that and agreed to leave after she goes to the bathroom. We return to our table, she goes to the bathroom with her friend, and suddenly her mood had changed, and she told me that she did not like how I offered her money, and I should have made my proposal in a different way. I was a bit pissed honestly, and tried to come to an arrangement but the mood was already spoiled. I think the ***** friend said something about it when they went to the bathroom together, but don't know for sure. I finished my drink and left for the night (with a disappointed johnny). We kind of said our goodbyes the next day on text, but I was careful not to burn bridges.

I did message her after a few days, but she was a little bit dry, although still willing to meet. I haven't had the chance to meet her yet, but maybe someday, who knows.

Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. ".

Finally, I think sometimes we just have to roll the dice and take a plunge. One of my current SBs is someone I met for a PPM, and it was great, but then she said that she will never do that again. And so, I had to cajole her into seeing me a few times on real dates. We had lunch. We did window shopping. When she saw something she liked, I bought it for her. One time, I even bought her an expensive piece of jewelry. So one day, at lunch, she said, let's go to a hotel. She even paid for the room! A few days later, I said, "I know you have some stress about your mortgage back home, which is $1,200 per month. I like you a lot. And so, let me pay your mortgage for you every month." For me, I thought it was very important for me to wait a few days before I suggested paying her mortgage, so she didn't feel I was paying her for sex. That was a couple of months ago. Since then, I've been seeing her almost twice per week at my love shack. And each time meet, I give her nothing. At the end of the month, I give her money for her mortgage. Sometimes, I might still buy her stuff when she sees something she likes. But this relationship works because we keep money separate from sex. But it took a long time and a lot of money to get this established and running smoothly. She now even buys me small gifts (one time, she gave me a nice gift) and pays for lunch sometimes.

Anyways, I've been using Seeking in Mexico City and Colombia over the past couple of months while traveling. I've got to say, it takes a lot of time and patience for flakes, but the reward may be worth it depending on who you are. On multiple occasions I've had girls confirm with the day of and never show up. One girl even had the balls to say she was in the Uber on the way over and she ghosted me. And in general these girls will go days without answering their messages. But the upside is potentially so sweet. You might find a novia (feel like I've already struck gold) or at least find some very cute university girls / non-pros that you can chill with.

With these non-pros, there's no clock watching, complete GFE, and its a girl that I can just hang out with for hours and have a real conversation with.

Yeah, this is exactly the tradeoff. SA can be a lot of time and aggravation, but when you find good SBs, then it's totally worth it.