Isla Margarita

[Nounce]

...One cannot blame this on scoialism, or Chavez, or Maduro bcos they inherited a totally fkd up situation. ...

I am surprised you are so forgiving.

[JustTK]

I do really hope that nation gets its shit together and they pull their heads out of the ass. I really do. It has so much potential and on an individual basis I like a lot of Venezuelans too. It is just their culture is shit.

As far as I can tell, the country has always been fucked up. Whether it was the Spanish colonialists, the USA, the international petrco-companies, the ruling elites, the government, the one constant is that the poor people of Venezulela have been consistently fkd by everyone. And these days, that means literally too.

One cannot blame this on scoialism, or Chavez, or Maduro bcos they inherited a totally fkd up situation. You might not like their policies, but it was no better before for the majority. Runaway inflation has existed since 1983 (Chevez came in 1999) and the currency has lost value against the USD 500 fold since then. Chavez got it under control for a while in the 2000's, but it span out of control again by 2012. The socialist governments have introduced minimum wage, re-set its value, nationalised various primary industries, reduced poverty, extreme poverty, and improved illiteracy. They didn't get everything right. Maduro seems to have a particular poor record. Lack of regard to the law. Has always been the case in the ruling classes in Venezuela, as it has in most countries. How do you think they got rich in the first place? - by saying "hey, I got here first (which they didn't), this is mine, get the FK out!

[Elvis 2008]

Really fucked up -- if they were out of town or out of the country, the government would not penalize people who moved into their property. They had to sell and get out. The government's attitude was more or less "if you're not occupying your property, you must be rich and poor people should be able to move in. ".

Combo, that is my point. Did anybody say that is wrong or were the people waiting to cash in on that government attitude? When I was at the shareholder meeting, there was no one who was standing up for what the law said. They were all looking to cash in on breaking the law. This was not one person but hundreds who were sitting there in this shareholder meeting.

And the attitude in Venezuela is we are a rich country and the reason we are poor is we have been stolen from and we are going to steal back. That is the culture, and you just described it like I did.

I saw so many hot-looking women there that I ended up going back as a single guy. Both Isla Margarita and Caracas.

The prettiest French women I have seen were in Montreal, the prettiest Iranian women I saw were in California, and the prettiest Venezuelan women I have seen were in Colombia and Mexico. I did not see much in Caracas and did not recall seeing much when I was near the coast but maybe the time was wrong. The women know their way around the bed, and there is no doubt Venezuela is a country with some bonafide 10's.

I do really hope that nation gets its shit together and they pull their heads out of the ass. I really do. It has so much potential and on an individual basis I like a lot of Venezuelans too. It is just their culture is shit.

[Combo]

Please don't judge a people by the few you have interacted with. While I agree with much of your post (specifically property rights), many, if not most, Venezuelans are very good people (just like anywhere). I was engaged to a Venezuelan girl in the USA A long time ago. Upper middle class family and as nice and decent as could be. We visited her family in Caracas a few times and they were very nice, hardworking people. This was when the country was just starting to fall apart. Eventually all her family ended up selling their property / business and leaving the country. Really fucked up -- if they were out of town or out of the country, the government would not penalize people who moved into their property. They had to sell and get out. The government's attitude was more or less "if you're not occupying your property, you must be rich and poor people should be able to move in. ".

I saw so many hot-looking women there that I ended up going back as a single guy. Both Isla Margarita and Caracas.

With Venezuela, it is because they are a bunch of fucking thieves and no one will have anything to do with them. For all the bashing of the USA and Europe, the corrupt Venezuelans could not even work things out with the Chinese: https://www.reuters.com/investigates...la-china-food/.


The idea with buying the Venezuelan telephone company was that all that money would be saved for Venezuelans. At least that is what Chavez said, yet for all Chavez's talk and bashing the USA and the rich, the daughters of Hugo Chavez embezzled billions of daughters out of the country and one of them lived in Miami. But then again that is what I expect from a leader of Venezuela.

Venezuela has or had the largest oil reserves in the world but it was always be a poor country. You cannot accumulate wealth when you do not have strong property rights, and there are none in Venezuela. Stealing and lying are part of their culture, and it is going to take generations for those attitudes to die.

[MaraCucho]

During Perez's second time in office he was fired for embezzlement.

I am not a fan of CAP (good intentions aside, a lot of what he did in his first term eventually threw the nation down a downwards spiral from which me never recovered), but what happened to him with that trial was bullshit, nobpdy involved truly had Venezuela's best interests in mind and it was 100% a political execution. Basically, it was an act of revenge of Rafael Caldera (probably the most sinister figure in modern venezuelan politics) who hated Perez's guts. The guy saw the opportunity when it was clear that public support for Perez disappeared due to his economic reforms, made deals with the enemies Perez had within Accion Democratica to ensure the party would disown him, and threw the Attorney General at him.

[JustTK]

This just goes to prove that you can't teach a leftist ideologue even common sense.

Absolutely not. I do not support what Maduro has done at all. A leftist does not blindly support all left wing leaders, in the same way as right wingers don't support every right wing nut job leader. That is fallacious reasoning. But it must also be said that Maduro's hands are firmly tied by the US-led sanctions that force Venezuelans back in to extreme poverty. Thank you Uncle Sam, for you kind capitalist benevolence.

Going back to the first implemtation of the minimum wage in Venezuela in 1974, It was Perez who did it. It was his first term in office. One of the most radical aspects of Pérez's program for government was the notion that petroleum oil was a tool for developing countries like Venezuela to attain first world status and usher a fairer, more equitable international order. Drastic increases in petroleum prices led to an economic bonanza for the country just as Pérez started his term. His policies, including the nationalization of the iron and petroleum industries, investment in large state-owned industrial projects for the production of aluminium and hydroelectric energy, infrastructure improvements and the funding of social welfare and scholarship programmes, were extremely ambitious and involved massive government spending, to the tune of almost $53 billion. His measures to protect the environment and foster sustainable development earned the Earth Care award in 1975, the first time a Latin American leader had received this recognition. The party he represented was Democratic Action. A left wing party too. And nationalising key industries is certainly a left wing policy. So Chavez was not the first left wing president. During Perez's second time in office he was fired for embezzlement.

[Elvis 2008]

Just a curious question which I am genuinely asking. Why doesn't Venezuela and Cuba just adopt capitalism and free trade with the rest of the world?

With Venezuela, it is because they are a bunch of fucking thieves and no one will have anything to do with them. For all the bashing of the USA and Europe, the corrupt Venezuelans could not even work things out with the Chinese: https://www.reuters.com/investigates...la-china-food/.

My experience with Venezuela was through their national phone company. GTE bought by Verizon put in all the wiring and towers in Venezuela. They moved Venezuelan communication into the 21st century, and they made money. When I bought shares, the company was 75% publicly traded and 25% owned by Verizon. It was in Venezuela's constitution that publicly traded companies pay 50% of profits out in the form of dividends but when I went to the share holder meeting, the Venezuelan share holders were furious that ANY money was being given to Verizon. They were actively telling management to screw the law and fuck over Verizon.

The company IMO was way undervalued. They had like $6 a share in cash and were making $4 a share and giving out $2 a share in dividends, and it was selling at $20. Given its numbers and growth, it should have been $100. The reason it was $20 was Chavez and fear of nationalization and of course, that is what he did. He bought the company for $17 a share. In essence, if the company just kept making the same money it did, he would get the thing for free in 3 years, $12 in earnings and $6 in cash. It was pure theft and of course, the company's #1 criteria for being hired or keeping their job was not competence but loyalty to Chavez.

JustTK thinks that the capitalists shut the Venezuelans out of the world currency markets. It was the other way around. Venezuela had an official rate of 3 Bolivars per dollar while the black market rate was way higher than that by factors as high as 10. So anyone could get their paycheck, convert their money at an exchange to dollars, sell them on the black market and make 10 X your money. The answer to people doing this was limiting exchanges and ATM conversions.

The same happened with gasoline. In Venezuela, gas costs like 30 cents a gallon so trucks fitted themselves with huge tanks, filled up in Venezuela, and then sold gasoline in Colombia. The answer was again to limit gasoline sales but in both cases you can see that you could potentially pay people off for more dollars or gasoline. Either of these practices were far more lucrative than most Venezuelan jobs.

The idea with buying the Venezuelan telephone company was that all that money would be saved for Venezuelans. At least that is what Chavez said, yet for all Chavez's talk and bashing the USA and the rich, the daughters of Hugo Chavez embezzled billions of daughters out of the country and one of them lived in Miami. But then again that is what I expect from a leader of Venezuela.

Venezuela has or had the largest oil reserves in the world but it was always be a poor country. You cannot accumulate wealth when you do not have strong property rights, and there are none in Venezuela. Stealing and lying are part of their culture, and it is going to take generations for those attitudes to die.

[GeneHickman]

Yes, you are correct, Vnzla had a minimum wage. But not a minimum wage that was practical / useful. The rate you mention was 450 be in 1974, which was worrth just ove USD 100 at that time. But by 1996 (more than 20 years later), it was worht USD 76 per month. Pathetic, even by that period. So that's why the people rejected the rich establishment and chose a leader for the people. BY 2000 (after Chavez was elected0 the minimum wage was up over USD 400 per month.

https://books.google.co.ve/books?id=z9OKMvILDcIC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=chavez+increase+minimum+wage+1990s&source=bl&ots=cmIkBtY-v6&sig=ACfU3U07ab9pBaZ30ST734T8I11xQ1gtOg&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnuZ_yg__4AhUAoWoFHYzMBnQQ6AF6BAhZEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false

This just goes to prove that you can't teach a leftist ideologue even common sense. Yes Chavez made it $400, but what is it now? And what is the unemployment rate? This thinking is akin to feasting on the golden goose for a year or two and then starving like an idiot. It's frankly a hideous ideology borne out of envy. The average Venezuelan was better of in 1998 than today. Sounds to me like they were better off being the "victims of capitalism" that whatever is this shit the leftists are serving up.

[JustTK]

Man, while once again I do agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, the practical reality of what Chavez and Maduro did is VERY different. I mean, yes before Chavez we were the working girls of the US of A. And now, we get assraped by the chinese and the russians. Is that any better? Also, I must correct you, Venezuela absolutely had a minimum wage before Chavez. In fact it was Chavez's nemesis, Carlos Andres Perez, who decreed in 1974 the "Salario Minimo Naciional", which going by the exchange rate of that era it was the equivalent of $100 a month.

Yes, you are correct, Vnzla had a minimum wage. But not a minimum wage that was practical / useful. The rate you mention was 450 be in 1974, which was worrth just ove USD 100 at that time. But by 1996 (more than 20 years later), it was worht USD 76 per month. Pathetic, even by that period. So that's why the people rejected the rich establishment and chose a leader for the people. BY 2000 (after Chavez was elected0 the minimum wage was up over USD 400 per month.

https://books.google.co.ve/books?id=z9OKMvILDcIC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=chavez+increase+minimum+wage+1990s&source=bl&ots=cmIkBtY-v6&sig=ACfU3U07ab9pBaZ30ST734T8I11xQ1gtOg&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnuZ_yg__4AhUAoWoFHYzMBnQQ6AF6BAhZEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false

[MaraCucho]

So you think that both Cuba and Venezuela should pull their pants down, bend down on their knees and stick their asses in the air, and take it up the arse from Uncle Sam? Is that what you would do, Ram? The problem is that these are both already victims of imperialism, of capitalism. Socialism came along as a solution to correct the injustices of these two countries. The people were already tired of capitalism. Capitalism does not allow for more winners; it needs losers. Just take a look around you at the Caribbean, at Haiti, south america, Asia, Africa. These are the victims. This is what Cuba and Venezuela would be, its what they were. Cuba would be Haiti, venezuela would be saudi or yemen. Do you think there was ever a minimum wage under capitalist venezuela? Why not, if it was so "successful"? Venzla had horrendous poverty and illiteracy before chavez. Why?

And you cannot tie authoritarianism to socialism either. Its not part of the left-right vector. Thats the vertical liberty vector. Take a look at saudi or middle east for examples.

We now see a huge step to the left across all south america. Bcos the people want justice. They are tired of being victims of the rich.

Man, while once again I do agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, the practical reality of what Chavez and Maduro did is VERY different. I mean, yes before Chavez we were the working girls of the US of A. And now, we get assraped by the chinese and the russians. Is that any better? Also, I must correct you, Venezuela absolutely had a minimum wage before Chavez. In fact it was Chavez's nemesis, Carlos Andres Perez, who decreed in 1974 the "Salario Minimo Naciional", which going by the exchange rate of that era it was the equivalent of $100 a month.

[JustTK]

Just a curious question which I am genuinely asking. Why doesn't Venezuela and Cuba just adopt capitalism and free trade with the rest of the world? It's obviously horrific trying to run the country according to their current policy. From my perspective, I am shocked the people haven't rebelled and taken Maduro and his regime out of power, same thing with Castro in Cuba. What are they trying to accomplish exactly? It's so tragic to see both nation's struggle and I am not saying I totally agree with the embargo's placed on them by the USA, but I also truly believe in freedom for people and a free market to pursue your dreams and let those who are hungry for more in life make the most of themselves in this world.

So you think that both Cuba and Venezuela should pull their pants down, bend down on their knees and stick their asses in the air, and take it up the arse from Uncle Sam? Is that what you would do, Ram? The problem is that these are both already victims of imperialism, of capitalism. Socialism came along as a solution to correct the injustices of these two countries. The people were already tired of capitalism. Capitalism does not allow for more winners; it needs losers. Just take a look around you at the Caribbean, at Haiti, south america, Asia, Africa. These are the victims. This is what Cuba and Venezuela would be, its what they were. Cuba would be Haiti, venezuela would be saudi or yemen. Do you think there was ever a minimum wage under capitalist venezuela? Why not, if it was so "successful"? Venzla had horrendous poverty and illiteracy before chavez. Why?

And you cannot tie authoritarianism to socialism either. Its not part of the left-right vector. Thats the vertical liberty vector. Take a look at saudi or middle east for examples.

We now see a huge step to the left across all south america. Bcos the people want justice. They are tired of being victims of the rich.

[JustTK]

Is it still possible to get laid easily... but I never did fearful of Venezuela in general.

Sure,. It is. But you need to bring bags of cash -USD. There are online websites where you can get chicas domicilio.

No need to be fearful. They are just people, same as anywhere else.

[D Cups]

Is it still possible to get laid easily on this beautiful island? I few years ago I banged a drop dead gorgeous Venezuelan chick I met on Calle Conde in Santo Domingo, RD. 21 years old and face of an angel and an unbelievable busty, perfect body. Easily in the Top 5 in my All-Time 600+ conquests. Anyway she told me about this beautiful island and invited me to go there but I never did fearful of Venezuela in general.

[MaraCucho]

A huge problem I have seen across Latin America is hugely talented, smart, capable individuals just working dead end severely low paying jobs because there is a massive lack of opportunity in their countries.

Man, that hits so close, it actually hurts.

And through these years there have been several attempts to get rid of the government. The first time was during the events in 2002-2003, then the "guarimbas" of 2015 and 2017, and finally the big push behind Juan Guaido in 2019. There are several reasons why all of those failed so badly, but the chief two are: A) Chavez consolidated his power by making the military part of the corrupt government and their shady deals, thus making it impossible for them to rebel because by doing so they would be losing a good business. That process wasn't entirely done in 2002, which is why the coup was able to remove Chavez from power for a few hours, but the large factions within the military that were already pledged to be part of the "chanchullo" quickly reverted it. And B) the fact that the political opposition is hugely inept, their leaders either a bunch of clowns that have no idea of what they are doing, or worse, politicians that have established "being the opposition" as their business and have zero intention to actually change the status quo.

[The Cane]

Well, I do recall that I fucked this blue-eyed, blonde Venezolana years ago in Costa Rica (she claimed to be from Isla Margarita). I remember that as I looked down at her smiling face and twinkling blue eyes I "nutted" far sooner than I otherwise would have liked to LOL!