American Politics

[Tiny 12]

So when I say I am not too political, I am not, but I offer my opinion. Especially because it seems like this is not the "American Politics Forum", but the "Support Democrats No Matter What Forum" LOL. There doesn't seem to be too many people engaging in a real discussion based in objectivity, but more like people who support their political party no matter what and the other side is evil, stupid, and corrupt. I analyze and form my opinion on each particular issue even if it doesn't align with the political party I am supporting at the moment. If Kamala wins, even though I will not be voting for her and I truly don't trust her Political Party, I am still her number one fan on day one. I hope she is an amazing President if she pulls it off. I especially hope she figures out a way to get more money into my bank account and make the lives of me and my family and friends better. I could care less about her being a Democrat if she is truly the best person for the job. I have seen nothing to convince that will happen though, she has hidden the last 4 years and it took her a pathetic 40 days to even do an interview. It's sad and disheartening to see. Many people will vote for her though just because they are convinced Trump is a psycho racist due to the racial and socio-economic injustice which has plagued the history of the USA. I don't think many people out there genuinely believe in her abilities as a leader. If so, please show me an interview or speech where she deserves my respect as such. I remember that interview she did with Charlamayne Tha God and it was so cringe I couldn't watch it. If she can't stand up to that guy, how the fuck is she going to lead a country?

Yes, I have seen Rhetoric from republicans to go after the FBI. I don't agree with it strongly, but I do feel they have weaponized the government against Trump. False Russia conspiracy, two bogus impeachments based on nothing, convicting this guy and fining him hundreds of millions because he slandered some chick. That's so stupid. That being said, I don't think anyone should defund the FBI. Also, the defund the FBI campaign was no where even close to as strong as the defund the police campaign. That was very mainstream for a long time. I also think its silly to defund the education system and go after universities. I think that's nonsense and a waste of time and energy.

As for BLM, I agree with you 100%. The vast majority of BLM are good people who just want more equality and justice for blacks who have historically seen far more injustice and received much less privilege. BLM is very important and was a noble cause. The few bad apples did spoil the bunch. Here is my problem with BLM. They eventually took the stance that if you don't support our cause, that means your racist and your a bad person. They went so far to even state, if you stay silent and don't offer a public opinion supporting my cause, that means you racist and your evil. That's when BLM lost me and I felt it was more about creating division and chaos than it was actually about advancing the prosperity of African Americans. I don't think Martin Luther King or an older more mature Malcom X would have supported those sentiments.

Anyone reading this is probably already aware that, to call a proud white man or woman racist publicly is like calling an African American the n word. It just shuts us down completely and the level of shame and pain from being called that publicly is overwhelming. For many white males, they experience the emotion of shame very intensely. I believe its why white males are far more likely to commit suicide. It is unacceptable to be unproductive for many white males. I also don't mean to de-value the significance of shame to any other races when I state that. Of course all humans experience shame very intensely. My point is, so when BLM takes the strong stance that it did and falsely played the race card like that, I could no longer support them even though I thought the core of what BLM stood for was of righteous significance.

Here is why I am not big on charts and data and links. In this day and age, you can find a chart or statistic to prove any argument your going to try to make. I think we need to get beyond that because so many statistics are flawed or biased. If its just some barber shop chatter, like this forum, I trust the word of people I know and respect more than some mumbo jumbo analytical data from a biased internet website. The level of bias in the media can no longer be trusted as it was before the age of the internet. Again, this is just my opinion. So I am not going to put any charts up, but I am fairly positive that in the last several decades, tens of millions of illegal immigrants have crossed that border, and yes there was also many positive aspects about that for both the immigrants and American citizens. I think now is the time when we totally secure that border and make much easier to legally immigrate into the country and regulate it. I have seen with my eyes dozens of these caravans of thousands of immigrants breaking into the USA and I have seen many many people in my community affected by Fentanyl and I think its time to divert our resources to sealing up the border once and for all. And yes I m completely aware many Americans disagree with me and no I don't want to see anyone who is here and is working and contributing be deported.

As for me believing it is human nature to take advantage of the system and the laws put forth upon us. I think it is the same with pussy or food. If a man is hungry, he will eat and you can bank on that 100%. If a man is horny, he going to fuck 100%. If a man sees cash on the street, that shit is going right in his pocket! If the law says you can get a comfy bed and some hot meals without working, your going to get a shit load of mother fuckers lining up to take advantage. It is just human nature. So for social services, as I said before, it is a very delicate balancing act you must perform and you cannot offer so much social services that it will incentivize citizens not to work and contribute adequate amounts of taxes which pay for those same services. You also can not offer so little resources that people resort to destitution which then plagues society. The achievement goal for societal design is to get as many people as possible living a high quality of life while also always trying to advance that same society and solve all of its problems until we reach the generation of a true perfect utopia where everyone lives forever and never experiences any pain or trauma LOL. Sorry went on a bit of a side quest rant there LOL.

Excellent, well-written post. The only thing substantive I'd disagree with is Trump's 2nd impeachment. He deserved it, and should have been convicted by the Senate. But yes, the lawsuits and prosecutions in New York were shams. He lost because the cases were tried in Manhattan, and people in Manhattan hate him. The part about societal design and a true perfect utopia is satire, right?

Good you didn't fall for Spidy's request for data and info. He would have just figured out a way to ignore it.

[RamDavidson84]

Okay! So now you want me to believe that you're "not too political...", after providing a your rather long, but politically opinionated post? Yeah...I could hardly tell (...kkkk!)

Thanks, I appreciate you stating, most of what you say is just an opinion. Again, I just want to repeat what I said before, about you expressing that's just the way you feel about certain issues, as an opinion and that it's perfectly okay with me. As many of us have the same or similar world experiences, while many millions more have different and opposite reactions, thoughts and beliefs to our lived world experiences.

However, I would argue that much of what you feel to be "true", can also be very much antithetical to how the majority of the Americans feel about the same issues.

Do you have any data/info on these unchecked millions? And over what length of time or time period are we talking about, years? Decades? Or is this just another opinion?

Luckily the vast majority, were able to go home that peacefully and NOT locked up, in a paddy wagons. Also of the nearly +10K, insurrectionists and rioters, that stormed the Capital Building, the vast majority were NOT prosecuted (only about 10%), as Trump and his cronies made sure, inadequate police and LE were NOT present.

BTW, much what you believe about the the pipe-bomb welding J6 insurrectionists, could be said about BLM protestors, which IMHO is a truer statement. And that would be, "the vast majority" are there to peacefully protest, and that the bulk of the violence is perpetrated by a few numbskulls, outside agitators and/or agent provocateurs.

May I suggest you re-read the Wiki page to your link again. It seems your understanding of what is written, is clouded.

Yes, while the BLM (a typically leftist) movement may have popularized the slogan, Repubs and right-wing MSM, have always tried to associate the slogan with Dems (and rightly so), but no one from the Dem party has campaigned to "Defund the Police".

The Wiki article in your link bears out that "association", but no evidence Dems called for a defunding:

• "Many sociologists, criminologists, and journalists have criticized aspects of the police defunding movement. In the United States, despite support for defunding being largely associated with left-wing, Democratic Party policies, politicians from both the Democratic and Republican parties have spoken against defunding, although Republicans have sought to link Democrats to the movement in congressional races."
  
  "Among the general public in the United States, the concept of defunding the police is unpopular. According to a 2024 study, there is no evidence of police defunding in major US cities in the aftermath of the 2020 BLM protests while cities with large Republican vote shares tended to increase police budgets in the aftermath of the protests."
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police.
  
  Note that several of us, provided you with several examples of Repubs "Defunding the Police/FBI".

Meanwhile, "Defund the FBI", is another slogan that was perhaps popularized by QAnon/MAGA enthusiasts (piggy-backing of the BLM slogan), and likewise, Dems have tried to associated the slogan with Repubs. However, the Dems, rightly so it would seem, are justified. As in this case (see article below), many Repub candidates have called for the federal LE and FBI agency to be defunded or abolished..

So when I say I am not too political, I am not, but I offer my opinion. Especially because it seems like this is not the "American Politics Forum", but the "Support Democrats No Matter What Forum" LOL. There doesn't seem to be too many people engaging in a real discussion based in objectivity, but more like people who support their political party no matter what and the other side is evil, stupid, and corrupt. I analyze and form my opinion on each particular issue even if it doesn't align with the political party I am supporting at the moment. If Kamala wins, even though I will not be voting for her and I truly don't trust her Political Party, I am still her number one fan on day one. I hope she is an amazing President if she pulls it off. I especially hope she figures out a way to get more money into my bank account and make the lives of me and my family and friends better. I could care less about her being a Democrat if she is truly the best person for the job. I have seen nothing to convince that will happen though, she has hidden the last 4 years and it took her a pathetic 40 days to even do an interview. It's sad and disheartening to see. Many people will vote for her though just because they are convinced Trump is a psycho racist due to the racial and socio-economic injustice which has plagued the history of the USA. I don't think many people out there genuinely believe in her abilities as a leader. If so, please show me an interview or speech where she deserves my respect as such. I remember that interview she did with Charlamayne Tha God and it was so cringe I couldn't watch it. If she can't stand up to that guy, how the fuck is she going to lead a country?

Yes, I have seen Rhetoric from republicans to go after the FBI. I don't agree with it strongly, but I do feel they have weaponized the government against Trump. False Russia conspiracy, two bogus impeachments based on nothing, convicting this guy and fining him hundreds of millions because he slandered some chick. That's so stupid. That being said, I don't think anyone should defund the FBI. Also, the defund the FBI campaign was no where even close to as strong as the defund the police campaign. That was very mainstream for a long time. I also think its silly to defund the education system and go after universities. I think that's nonsense and a waste of time and energy.

As for BLM, I agree with you 100%. The vast majority of BLM are good people who just want more equality and justice for blacks who have historically seen far more injustice and received much less privilege. BLM is very important and was a noble cause. The few bad apples did spoil the bunch. Here is my problem with BLM. They eventually took the stance that if you don't support our cause, that means your racist and your a bad person. They went so far to even state, if you stay silent and don't offer a public opinion supporting my cause, that means you racist and your evil. That's when BLM lost me and I felt it was more about creating division and chaos than it was actually about advancing the prosperity of African Americans. I don't think Martin Luther King or an older more mature Malcom X would have supported those sentiments.

Anyone reading this is probably already aware that, to call a proud white man or woman racist publicly is like calling an African American the n word. It just shuts us down completely and the level of shame and pain from being called that publicly is overwhelming. For many white males, they experience the emotion of shame very intensely. I believe its why white males are far more likely to commit suicide. It is unacceptable to be unproductive for many white males. I also don't mean to de-value the significance of shame to any other races when I state that. Of course all humans experience shame very intensely. My point is, so when BLM takes the strong stance that it did and falsely played the race card like that, I could no longer support them even though I thought the core of what BLM stood for was of righteous significance.

Here is why I am not big on charts and data and links. In this day and age, you can find a chart or statistic to prove any argument your going to try to make. I think we need to get beyond that because so many statistics are flawed or biased. If its just some barber shop chatter, like this forum, I trust the word of people I know and respect more than some mumbo jumbo analytical data from a biased internet website. The level of bias in the media can no longer be trusted as it was before the age of the internet. Again, this is just my opinion. So I am not going to put any charts up, but I am fairly positive that in the last several decades, tens of millions of illegal immigrants have crossed that border, and yes there was also many positive aspects about that for both the immigrants and American citizens. I think now is the time when we totally secure that border and make much easier to legally immigrate into the country and regulate it. I have seen with my eyes dozens of these caravans of thousands of immigrants breaking into the USA and I have seen many many people in my community affected by Fentanyl and I think its time to divert our resources to sealing up the border once and for all. And yes I m completely aware many Americans disagree with me and no I don't want to see anyone who is here and is working and contributing be deported.

As for me believing it is human nature to take advantage of the system and the laws put forth upon us. I think it is the same with pussy or food. If a man is hungry, he will eat and you can bank on that 100%. If a man is horny, he going to fuck 100%. If a man sees cash on the street, that shit is going right in his pocket! If the law says you can get a comfy bed and some hot meals without working, your going to get a shit load of mother fuckers lining up to take advantage. It is just human nature. So for social services, as I said before, it is a very delicate balancing act you must perform and you cannot offer so much social services that it will incentivize citizens not to work and contribute adequate amounts of taxes which pay for those same services. You also can not offer so little resources that people resort to destitution which then plagues society. The achievement goal for societal design is to get as many people as possible living a high quality of life while also always trying to advance that same society and solve all of its problems until we reach the generation of a true perfect utopia where everyone lives forever and never experiences any pain or trauma LOL. Sorry went on a bit of a side quest rant there LOL.

[Spidy]

Blame everything on the Republicans. There's no correlation I can see between whether a state is blue or red and the rate of deaths by overdose. Four blue states are in top ten for most deaths per capita, while the four states with the lowest death rates, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska and Texas, are all red.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s..._poisoning.htm

Thanks, but IMHO, I don't think those data points, apply to my post. In fact I think your post is somewhat antithetical and emblematic of what I wrote about.

Yes, I do blame the Reagan administration, for starting the "War on Drugs" (speaking of slogans), but I also blame the CIA. Others have blamed our greedy little hearts and heavy consumption of "all things white and powdery", due to our wealth of capital and abundant demand, which I also agree with.

Nothing wrong with understanding America's history with its drug problem and how it relates to many of the socio-economic conditions of its time in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and all the way forward, to current day issues, policies and events. It's equally important that history isn't revised, like Repub revisionists love to do, for example; with the gaslighting of history on American slavery and Black History.

But now that the problem still exists and insidiously persists, to this day, some 40+ years later after that faithless day Reagan proclaimed to Americans, "The War on Drugs", my post focused on "America getting past its differences", if WE are ever going to solve the problem.

So if the point or idea of your post/link was too highlight the division of blame and shame in blue and red states, w/r to the overdoses, deaths and whatever else your link highlights (as I did NOT look it, as I felt your post wasn't related to my post and), is YOUR argument and YOURS alone. My post did not make any such argument.

A reminder of the gist of my post:

Like most problems in society, they can be solved, if the political will power and true political bipartisan buy-in, occurs.
...

If/When America ever gets past, an "us" vs."them" mentality, and comes to terms with it's "our America's problem", and adopts more hybrid combination of the Portugal European model with better holistic approaches to punishment, drug rehabilitation and addiction healthcare. To succeed, naturally, these programs should be given the proper resources, support, funding and time to properly mature and become viable solutions to decreasing drug usage and crime problem. ...

In the spirit of the Harris/Walz campaign, I'm feeling and basking in the joyous rays of energy, happiness and the uplifting delight, their ticket is bringing back to American politics, with bipartisan support from 200+ Repubs and even more Never Trumpers. It is within that same spirit of joy, bipartisanship (that YOU constantly accuse ISG Dems of not having) and a sense of cooperation that my previous post addresses. So...

Thanks for the post et al., but your antithetical data points, I think is making a different argument and one that belongs in another conversation and perhaps worth saving for another day?

PS: Feel free to re-state the case, you're trying to make with your data points.

[MarquisdeSade1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPgW1U0Eidw

[Sirioja]

Our world which need peace wish for no Trump, to get rid of Netanyahou and Putin death and we will all live better after them. In US, I couldn t understand how a woman could vote for Trump, from his lack of respect for women, or they are really 0 neuron.

[Tiny 12]

Luckily the vast majority, were able to go home that peacefully and NOT locked up, in a paddy wagons. Also of the nearly +10K, insurrectionists and rioters, that stormed the Capital Building, the vast majority were NOT prosecuted (only about 10%), as Trump and his cronies made sure, inadequate police and LE were NOT present.

BTW, much what you believe about the the pipe-bomb welding J6 insurrectionists, could be said about BLM protestors, which IMHO is a truer statement. And that would be, "the vast majority" are there to peacefully protest, and that the bulk of the violence is perpetrated by a few numbskulls, outside agitators and/or agent provocateurs.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the 10,000+ figure is the number of people estimated to have attended Trump's rally in Washington D.C. on January 6. Yeah, he probably said there were millions, but 10,000+ is the AP's estimate. It could have been as many as 80,000 according the Army Secretary.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...-6-anniversary

The FBI estimated between 2000 and 2500 entered the Capitol Building. According to a January, 2024 NYT article, 1240 people had been arrested in connection with the attack. And the NYT speculated that may represent only half of the total indictments which will ultimately be filed. So apparently they're going to charge everyone they can identify who entered the building, and some people who didn't.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...stigation.html

This is another example of how the criminal justice system in the USA is screwed up. The Republicans want to put all the Democrats in jail, and the Democrats want to put all the Republicans in jail. If you're going to compare January 6 to BLM protests, you'd have to say the Democrats have been more successful prosecuting their opponents, probably because they mostly control Washington D.C. and other large cities where the protests occurred.

[Tiny 12]

One the the best things like like about your posts is that they are respectful. I can stipulate for you about the class thing. I don't think the "rich" are saying "let's dumb them down and drug them up". When I take a step back from it I see it as benign neglect.

In my opinion the real issue is not actually drug use. It is impairment when it time go do the job. I am certain that we can agree that those that operate heavy equipment should not be impaired when they show up for work. Yet, they can be even if they never touched drugs. They could have been up all night fucking prostitutes and didn't get any sleep. Do you want your pilot in that condition? I approve of tests for impairment. If someone one wants to use drugs on their off time that is their business and I feel like drug tests are overreach and designed for the purpose of control.

Not really familiar with fentanyl. But you can be a functioning heroin addict.

We are in complete agreement on this point.

I think citizens in the United States of America have to get back to personal responsibility. When Nancy Regan said to the US population, "just say no" to drugs. I laughed. Now that I am older I can say the former First Lady had a point.

Agreed. But they should not be able to keep their jobs either. They should be subject to direct financial penalties just like Police Officers are all over the United States of America. A CEO has a host of responsibilities. One of which is, as the brain of the corporate citizen, he must run it in such a way as to make it a good citizen of the society that make its existence possible. That means obeying the law.

Are we going to allow profit to prevail when corporate actions harm our fellow citizens?

Good post SubComdr. I agree. About your last item, I believe regulation, the threat of civil lawsuits, and competition among companies largely keeps harmful corporate actions in check. There are cases that slip through the cracks though. There's an article in the New York Times today about a mental hospital system that's listed on the stock exchange. People would come in to the emergency room, for example to adjust their bipolar medications. And then the hospital would forcibly keep them for a week to make more money off them. That's going to catch up with them though. I bet their share price takes a deep dive on Monday. There may be criminal and civil actions filed against the company, and executives heads may roll.

It can go the other way too -- if you go overboard on the regulation and lawsuits, it's harmful. The current regulatory ban on new permits for LNG (liquefied natural gas) facilities is an example. The rationale is that it will reduce carbon emissions. But it may do exactly the opposite. Many places, especially developing countries, will burn more coal to generate electricity, which emits more carbon, if LNG prices are high.

[Spidy]

Sorry, like I said I am not too political and your post is extensive. I only read it once briefly so if I make mistake in my response, I apologize ahead of time.

Okay! So now you want me to believe that you're "not too political...", after providing a your rather long, but politically opinionated post? Yeah...I could hardly tell (...kkkk!)

Like I said in my original post, I am no expect in the realm of politics, but I offer my opinion which I always base the majority off of what I experience in the real world. I am also someone who has experienced all walks of life in USA and I think this gives me a little more confidence in my opinions. I am not sheltered to being around just one class or area of people. That being said, my four step plan is just some suggestion I threw out off the top of my head and I agree with you to some extent about the war on drugs and perhaps it has been a waste of money. I always think, if I was a government and I seized several tons of cocaine, would I just destroy it or secretly sell it on the street for hundreds of millions, and use that money to pay off national debt? It always makes me wonder.

I do however feel very strongly that the border needs to absolutely be secured and fentanyl has no place in USA. Cocaine is one thing, but fentanyl kills normal everyday people who just want to party for the night and they end up dead.

Thanks, I appreciate you stating, most of what you say is just an opinion. Again, I just want to repeat what I said before, about you expressing that's just the way you feel about certain issues, as an opinion and that it's perfectly okay with me. As many of us have the same or similar world experiences, while many millions more have different and opposite reactions, thoughts and beliefs to our lived world experiences.

However, I would argue that much of what you feel to be "true", can also be very much antithetical to how the majority of the Americans feel about the same issues.

I also don't think it's fair to just let millions and millions of people into the country unchecked where they will work and not pay taxes. Border should be secured regulated and anyone who comes in to work is paying mother fucking taxes just like me, and no they don't get a vote. If they stay 7-10 years and keep their noses clean, offer a path to citizenship. That's how it used to be back in the day. Now it's just a dangerous mess.

Do you have any data/info on these unchecked millions? And over what length of time or time period are we talking about, years? Decades? Or is this just another opinion?

I have said this many times, Jan. 6th rioters were morons and I have no problem prosecuting them in the court of law to the fullest extent. The vast majority are not insurrectionists and it was nothing close to an insurrection. A real insurrection has the support of a military strong enough to subdue the population and the nation's military it is trying to conquer. Think bay of pigs, that was a real insurrection! A few thousand trained guerilla soldiers armed to the teeth. Jan. 6 was a bunch of fat drunk rednecks who acted like morons. To think they would ever have stood a chance at sparking an insurrection is the dumbest thing I have ever heard and CNN runs that "narrative" 24/7 non-stop to this day! This is a huge reason I have shifted my views strongly to the right. Democrats have run too many false narratives and they have lost my trust and the trust of many Americans. They never should have put the insurrectionist spin on Jan. 6 to the extent that they did.

Luckily the vast majority, were able to go home that peacefully and NOT locked up, in a paddy wagons. Also of the nearly +10K, insurrectionists and rioters, that stormed the Capital Building, the vast majority were NOT prosecuted (only about 10%), as Trump and his cronies made sure, inadequate police and LE were NOT present.

BTW, much what you believe about the the pipe-bomb welding J6 insurrectionists, could be said about BLM protestors, which IMHO is a truer statement. And that would be, "the vast majority" are there to peacefully protest, and that the bulk of the violence is perpetrated by a few numbskulls, outside agitators and/or agent provocateurs.

As for Defund the police, here is the wikipedia link. I suggest you read it. It is strongly linked to Democrat Party and was a disgraceful political movement, again although I was raised to hate cops and I am kind of glad more professionalism was brought to the law enforcement industry. I think defund the police took it way too far though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police.

May I suggest you re-read the Wiki page to your link again. It seems your understanding of what is written, is clouded.

Yes, while the BLM (a typically leftist) movement may have popularized the slogan, Repubs and right-wing MSM, have always tried to associate the slogan with Dems (and rightly so), but no one from the Dem party has campaigned to "Defund the Police".

The Wiki article in your link bears out that "association", but no evidence Dems called for a defunding:

• "Many sociologists, criminologists, and journalists have criticized aspects of the police defunding movement. In the United States, despite support for defunding being largely associated with left-wing, Democratic Party policies, politicians from both the Democratic and Republican parties have spoken against defunding, although Republicans have sought to link Democrats to the movement in congressional races."
  
  "Among the general public in the United States, the concept of defunding the police is unpopular. According to a 2024 study, there is no evidence of police defunding in major US cities in the aftermath of the 2020 BLM protests while cities with large Republican vote shares tended to increase police budgets in the aftermath of the protests."
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police.
  
  Note that several of us, provided you with several examples of Repubs "Defunding the Police/FBI".

Meanwhile, "Defund the FBI", is another slogan that was perhaps popularized by QAnon/MAGA enthusiasts (piggy-backing of the BLM slogan), and likewise, Dems have tried to associated the slogan with Repubs. However, the Dems, rightly so it would seem, are justified. As in this case (see article below), many Repub candidates have called for the federal LE and FBI agency to be defunded or abolished.

"Defund the FBI" complicates GOP's midterm messaging, Aug 22, 2022
https://www.axios.com/2022/08/16/def...icans-midterms

Once again more clear examples provided to you and not just "a feeling", about Repubs, being perhaps slightly more guilty of ACTUALLY wanting to defund the police or FBI.

As for social services, It is a tricky line because if you provide too much social services, people do not have an incentive to work. Its just human nature to take advantage of the system, just like Trump said he used to do with the Tax code and paying his taxes. I think any city with a severe homeless problem does need to provide adequate shelters so people in tents are not living in front of peoples homes and businesses. If we can afford billion dollar air force fighters just, we can provide shelters for homeless, but it can't be so nice it will incentivize people to not work. That is my opinion.

You have to ask yourself who benefits more when it comes to "human nature to take advantage of the system". Trump would like you to think that because he does it, everyone else must be doing it. NOT TRUE! This is a very cynical way, of looking at life, that narcissists like Trump would have you believe.

I like to think that most assistive systems like social services, work like something you said earlier, that "...the vast majority are not insurrectionist", therefore that leaves a few bad apples, like Trump that spoil things for the rest of us law abiding citizens?

As for my friend's death, I know his situation personally and he struggled many years with addiction and ultimately it was not fentanyl that killed him, but his own demons. Fentanyl was just the straw that broke the camels back. I think some cultural changes need to take place in our country which decreases the amount of people turning to develop self destructive habits in the form of severe addiction. How we do that, I don't know? I do know that based off my real world experience when I speak to people from other countries I always get asked about why a rich nation like USA has so many drug addicts, so much violence, and so many homeless? When it comes to solving those problems, I believe at this point, Republicans would be more effective at handling hose issues.

Strong economy! Low inflation! Opportunity! Utilize nation's natural resources to fullest extent! Secure border! Tough on crime! Negotiate best trade deals!

For right now, fuck the environment for the next four years. Fuck the cartels! Fuck funding more foreign wars!

Look IMHO, discussions not just based on "one's feelings", ought to be more substantiated with evidence, proof, or examples provided, other than what we each "feels" or "thinks" is true. At the the end of day, we can still agree to disagree, even if you are just posting your feelings and opinions. But I would at very least, like to understand or examine your reasoning and informational sources, to draw my own conclusions, as to why I MAY or MAY NOT agree with you.

Yes, WE ALL have lived different "truths", and no one can deny us of our personal "truths". However, our personal "truths" should not be conflated with that of a boarder nationwide or worldwide view, on issues that face millions and billions of other people with their own "truths" and lived experiences.

[SubCmdr]

Respectfully SubCmdr, I don't believe it's a class thing.

One the the best things like like about your posts is that they are respectful. I can stipulate for you about the class thing. I don't think the "rich" are saying "let's dumb them down and drug them up". When I take a step back from it I see it as benign neglect.

In the USA, businesses are motivated to keep employees off drugs, and many require regular drug tests. There are probably some, like trucking, that may do better short term when their people use methamphetamines, but that's the exception.

In my opinion the real issue is not actually drug use. It is impairment when it time go do the job. I am certain that we can agree that those that operate heavy equipment should not be impaired when they show up for work. Yet, they can be even if they never touched drugs. They could have been up all night fucking prostitutes and didn't get any sleep. Do you want your pilot in that condition? I approve of tests for impairment. If someone one wants to use drugs on their off time that is their business and I feel like drug tests are overreach and designed for the purpose of control.

As to the big problem, fentanyl and opioids, they hurt job performance.

Not really familiar with fentanyl. But you can be a functioning heroin addict.

I agree 100% that special interests play a big part in over-incarceration in America. Judges, lawyers, police and the prison system all do better when when lots of people are locked up.

We are in complete agreement on this point.

I think citizens in the United States of America have to get back to personal responsibility. When Nancy Regan said to the US population, "just say no" to drugs. I laughed. Now that I am older I can say the former First Lady had a point.

Finally, I believe somebody here (not Subcmdr) wrote that part of the solution is to put the CEO's of American corporations in jail, starting with the drug companies. I emphatically disagree. The Venezuelization of the USA is not the solution.

Agreed. But they should not be able to keep their jobs either. They should be subject to direct financial penalties just like Police Officers are all over the United States of America. A CEO has a host of responsibilities. One of which is, as the brain of the corporate citizen, he must run it in such a way as to make it a good citizen of the society that make its existence possible. That means obeying the law.

Are we going to allow profit to prevail when corporate actions harm our fellow citizens?

[Tiny 12]

Excellent discussion gentlemen.

I hope everyone reads this article from Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, same one that Trump always tout.

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...snt-so-simple/

Portugal has a good start on how it can be done.

Excerpt:

Francisco Rodriguez, president of the Order of Portuguese Psychologists, demonstrated this by noting, "You cannot work with people when they're afraid of being caught and going to prison. It's not possible to have an effective health program if people are hiding the problem. ".

Thanks for the link Checkmate. That was a great read. It's not too long, and makes a lot of sense. Ramping up the $10 per year per person that Portugal was spending on its drug program when it was working, that would be $3. 3 billion a year in the USA. Multiply that by 5 because of inflation, and higher costs and inefficient government in the USA, and you're looking at $16.5 billion per year, which is not much compared to the roughly $9 or $10 trillion spent by all levels of government. I bet the program would pay for itself just through lower costs in the criminal justice system. Add to that lower medical costs and more people gainfully employed. We'd need to do this at the state and local level IMHO. They are are so much more effective and efficient than our federal government.

The comments section was interesting too, especially the part about Vancouver.

But when one political party (Repubs), continues to see the drug problem, not as a problem to be solved as a unified front, but rather as, a bargaining chip, or a hammer with which to beat/pound your political opposition with, or a campaign prop to rally their base, it's clear that Americans will be doomed and subjected to yet another 40+ years of failure.

Essentially, Americans with be stuck in political quagmire quicksand. Which I fear, is just where "no nothing", "do nothing" Repubs, currently don't mind wallowing and politicking.

Blame everything on the Republicans. There's no correlation I can see between whether a state is blue or red and the rate of deaths by overdose. Four blue states are in top ten for most deaths per capita, while the four states with the lowest death rates, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska and Texas, are all red.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s..._poisoning.htm

The problem is driven by the huge inequalities of wealth and income because the United States of America is a Plutocracy. Keeping the majority of the population dumbed down and drugged up works for the money classes in the United States of America. Especially since AI and robotics will create huge displacements in the current workforce. They are not also not interested in actually solving the problem from the demand side because the war on drugs is good for business. Incarceration is good for business. Incarceration allow the moneyed classes to target those groups they want less of because they themselves are not having enough babies to replace their own population. As demographic change, the revolution with not be televised.

Respectfully SubCmdr, I don't believe it's a class thing. In the USA, businesses are motivated to keep employees off drugs, and many require regular drug tests. There are probably some, like trucking, that may do better short term when their people use methamphetamines, but that's the exception. As to the big problem, fentanyl and opioids, they hurt job performance. I agree 100% that special interests play a big part in over-incarceration in America. Judges, lawyers, police and the prison system all do better when when lots of people are locked up.

Finally, I believe somebody here (not Subcmdr) wrote that part of the solution is to put the CEO's of American corporations in jail, starting with the drug companies. I emphatically disagree. The Venezuelization of the USA is not the solution.

[RamDavidson84]

Thanks! Being a big fan of most all things Brazilian, the Jiu Jitsu comparison I find flattering. Since its introduction to mixed martial arts (MMA) fighting by the Gracies, it has revolutionized the sport. But I digress!

Yeah, I see shit everyday too...brother! But feelings aside, do you have any real stats, that the majority of the homeless are criminals, to back that up? Other than I should just take your word for it?

In 2019, the U.S. had more opioid deaths than the rest of the world combined. Why aren't other countries shutting down borders to solve the fentanyl problem? And who is buying all this fentanyl. Surely the poor and poverty stricken, can't be buying this much fentanyl? And whatever the reason your friend found their way into a drug problem, it would be nice if everyone is afforded the same level of dignity and understanding. For centuries Bible-thumpers, have been saying they can't let prostitution happen to their city...and yet here we are, centuries later.



Your 4-Step plan is pretty much plucked right outta the Repub handbook and it still hasn't worked, since Reagan took office some 40+ years ago, and trotted out his Repub proclamation on "The War on Colored People", Ahem...pardon me, I mean, "The War on Drugs".

This so called plan of his (and yet another "war on smth...", put forth by Repubs), hasn't done "shit" to solve America's drug problem, in 40+ years. (Hint: At first, drugs was just a pretext, until it wasn't and drug addition infected the greater community at large!)

Yes, whether wittingly or unwittingly, the drug wars, have unintentionally, exacerbate matters and arguably did spread the problem, from Main Street to Wall Street, from lower to middle and upper-class America, where it also insidiously persists, unchecked, today, by the "heavy hand" of the law.

You see, much like the CIA, throughout the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's flooding the streets of America, with everything from LSD, heroine, cocaine and crack cocaine, today we see the pharmaceuticals and big drug companies, largely responsible for the opioid epidemic and the deaths of +1 million Americans. And Repubs calling for "A War on Tent Cities" and yet no sign of the "heavy hand" of law enforcement, carting-off any of the rich CEOs, execs, company big-wigs or opioid profiteers to jail. Why is that do you think?

Since opioids and fentanyl are drugs that can be synthesized from common industrial chemicals, drug cartels (and local copycats) are finding new creative ways and chemistries to get around the "precursors" for fentanyl type opioids. For border security to identify and search, for fentanyl let alone all of the increasing everyday common industrial chemicals, used in making fentanyl, is a proving to be rather difficult and perhaps even a bridge too far. Personally, I don't believe the Republican hype and propaganda about, "shutting down the border to stop the flow of fentanyl", will do much, other than to have the appearance of "doing something."

Repubs record on social services:

Well you'd be the first Repub, to advocate for funding social services or social assistant programs, since we all know Repubs have denied, thieved, pilfered, stolen or clawed back, any notion or hint of government assistance for Americans at or below the poverty line. But never a problem when millionaires and billionaire stick their hands out, right!

So when it comes to social services, assistance or help, Repubs have always done, what Repubs do best, and provided the best "lip service" imaginable, that cost absolutely nothing to provide, as you've nicely highlighted in STEPS 2 and 4.

Repubs record on Defund the Police:



"Defund the police", is a vague slogan that means different things to different people. Let's just say Repubs have defunded the police, in more ways than you'd think and all to often just love to use law enforcement, as "the heavy hand of the law" (as you put it), as a hammer. When often times, all that's needed is a screwdriver. Just like any other branch of gov't, the citizens of a community have right to scrutinize, analyze and have input on how their taxes are used, especially if said services aren't benefiting their community.

So I submit, much like when the Republicans voted against the $350bn in funding for law enforcement (that Eihtooms reports on (below) here: http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...=1#post2940551), or when Repubs had the best bipartisan bill, Repubs had seen in decades, on U.S. border security and immigration, it was selfishly stuck down and kiboshed by Trump. Both are great examples of Repubs "soft selling", "defund the police", and wanting to keep up an air of fear, crime, panic and disorder, in order to use as campaign fodder.

As for "peaceful rioters", I hear that on Jan 6th, the insurrectionists, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, Three (3%) percenters, White Nationalists, bikers and skin heads, were all just out for a brief stroll on Capital Hill and a mini-tour of the Capital Building, when a coup and riot broke out, cops were killed, maimed and injured, all in pursuit of, what you Repubs, I believe called "...legitimate political discourse"(...kkkk!)

And by that same logic, I guess BLM, Seattle "summer of love" and other rioters (your words) around the country, pretending to be peaceful protesters are really just actively engaging in "...legitimate political discourse", when they riot, loot and burn businesses, right!

Sorry, like I said I am not too political and your post is extensive. I only read it once briefly so if I make mistake in my response, I apologize ahead of time.

Like I said in my original post, I am no expect in the realm of politics, but I offer my opinion which I always base the majority off of what I experience in the real world. I am also someone who has experienced all walks of life in USA and I think this gives me a little more confidence in my opinions. I am not sheltered to being around just one class or area of people. That being said, my four step plan is just some suggestion I threw out off the top of my head and I agree with you to some extent about the war on drugs and perhaps it has been a waste of money. I always think, if I was a government and I seized several tons of cocaine, would I just destroy it or secretly sell it on the street for hundreds of millions, and use that money to pay off national debt? It always makes me wonder.

I do however feel very strongly that the border needs to absolutely be secured and fentanyl has no place in USA. Cocaine is one thing, but fentanyl kills normal everyday people who just want to party for the night and they end up dead. I also don't think it's fair to just let millions and millions of people into the country unchecked where they will work and not pay taxes. Border should be secured regulated and anyone who comes in to work is paying mother fucking taxes just like me, and no they don't get a vote. If they stay 7-10 years and keep their noses clean, offer a path to citizenship. That's how it used to be back in the day. Now it's just a dangerous mess.

I have said this many times, Jan. 6th rioters were morons and I have no problem prosecuting them in the court of law to the fullest extent. The vast majority are not insurrectionists and it was nothing close to an insurrection. A real insurrection has the support of a military strong enough to subdue the population and the nation's military it is trying to conquer. Think bay of pigs, that was a real insurrection! A few thousand trained guerilla soldiers armed to the teeth. Jan. 6 was a bunch of fat drunk rednecks who acted like morons. To think they would ever have stood a chance at sparking an insurrection is the dumbest thing I have ever heard and CNN runs that "narrative" 24/7 non-stop to this day! This is a huge reason I have shifted my views strongly to the right. Democrats have run too many false narratives and they have lost my trust and the trust of many Americans. They never should have put the insurrectionist spin on Jan. 6 to the extent that they did.

As for Defund the police, here is the wikipedia link. I suggest you read it. It is strongly linked to Democrat Party and was a disgraceful political movement, again although I was raised to hate cops and I am kind of glad more professionalism was brought to the law enforcement industry. I think defund the police took it way too far though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defund_the_police.

As for social services, It is a tricky line because if you provide too much social services, people do not have an incentive to work. Its just human nature to take advantage of the system, just like Trump said he used to do with the Tax code and paying his taxes. I think any city with a severe homeless problem does need to provide adequate shelters so people in tents are not living in front of peoples homes and businesses. If we can afford billion dollar air force fighters just, we can provide shelters for homeless, but it can't be so nice it will incentivize people to not work. That is my opinion.

As for my friend's death, I know his situation personally and he struggled many years with addiction and ultimately it was not fentanyl that killed him, but his own demons. Fentanyl was just the straw that broke the camels back. I think some cultural changes need to take place in our country which decreases the amount of people turning to develop self destructive habits in the form of severe addiction. How we do that, I don't know? I do know that based off my real world experience when I speak to people from other countries I always get asked about why a rich nation like USA has so many drug addicts, so much violence, and so many homeless? When it comes to solving those problems, I believe at this point, Republicans would be more effective at handling hose issues.

Strong economy! Low inflation! Opportunity! Utilize nation's natural resources to fullest extent! Secure border! Tough on crime! Negotiate best trade deals!

For right now, fuck the environment for the next four years. Fuck the cartels! Fuck funding more foreign wars!

[Spidy]

Poor assumptions to what is a market.

If we shut down the border, pooffff, no more drug problems. If we catch ALL of the dealers, no more problems. If we decriminalize, that will solve the problem.

Reality is we have consumers (demand) and dealers (supply) legal and illegal. If the demand continues to rise, there will be suppliers. One reason why the border closing and arresting the dealers will not work is that the "NEXT guy" will step in to fill the void, whether starting up a meth lab in MEX or USA, or importing fentanyl through EU, ASIA, SA or even CAN. Silly to scapegoat MEX, even if it is the largest CURRENTLY.

What may work:

1. Bend the demand curve (Article of Portugal).

2. For less harmful drugs such as weeds, magic mushrooms, and natural products allow for home cultivation. You know, we've been chasing suppliers for more than 40 years, results are not good. This will bend the supply curve. And the suppliers (cartels) will, A. Try to shut down home operations or B. Get out of a non profitable business.

Drugs war we have been fighting is on too many fronts. There are serious issues and trivial ones, taking on ALL fronts and always from a chasing standpoint haven't worked, try something else.

Like most problems in society, they can be solved, if the political will power and true political bipartisan buy-in, occurs.

But when one political party (Repubs), continues to see the drug problem, not as a problem to be solved as a unified front, but rather as, a bargaining chip, or a hammer with which to beat/pound your political opposition with, or a campaign prop to rally their base, it's clear that Americans will be doomed and subjected to yet another 40+ years of failure.

Essentially, Americans with be stuck in political quagmire quicksand. Which I fear, is just where "no nothing", "do nothing" Repubs, currently don't mind wallowing and politicking.

Yes the Europeans, have tackled the drug problem, from a more inclusive and holistic point-of-view. And does seem to be working, albeit at times there is some slippage, but overall numbers in drug usage has dramatically decreased, from when these programs began. Their holistic approach is working!

Drug Addiction: Our American Problem:

But do you think some of these "leftist 'woke' holistic approaches" to decreasing/solving the problem in the U.S. would ever by given about a 10-year "runway" needed to prove itself viable, let alone the 40+ years, the "right-wing War on Drugs" propaganda machine have had?

Often times, if the proposals from the left (see the light of day and are implemented, but) aren't seeing significant results in the first few years, the program funding typically dries up, or shuttered and is torpedoed by right-wing critics and saboteurs, eager to call the project an abject failure, accompanied by an outcry to return to their politically profitable, lucrative and divisive, "War on Drugs".

If/When America ever gets past, an "us" vs."them" mentality, and comes to terms with it's "our America's problem", and adopts more hybrid combination of the Portugal European model with better holistic approaches to punishment, drug rehabilitation and addiction healthcare. To succeed, naturally, these programs should be given the proper resources, support, funding and time to properly mature and become viable solutions to decreasing drug usage and crime problem.

But sadly, I too, I'm not sure America will get past its drug, crime, gun, race...etc crazed addictions, at least not the way in which, things have gone on, for the last 40+ years. However the next 4-years with a Harris/Walz ticket, is a good amendment, to a bright hopeful 2nd half of the Biden/Harris legacy.

[CheckMate1]

You just know the hard Right Wingers at RealClearPolitics just hated to have to do this today:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

With 270 Electoral College Votes to win:

In 2016, you saw the momentum in the swing states going toward Trump. Dems wished that it wasn't true, but the number kept going away from Hilary, even with access hollywood and so on.

July 21,2024 is the marker for the momentum shifts. And for over 5 weeks, it hasn't stopped. If you look at voter registrations, Trump pretty much idle and Harris has continued to grow. Group between 18-29 is up 20% over 2020, break that out to women 18-29 group and you have well over 100%. When I wrote about FL, I noticed that about 25% of registered voters do not vote. So an additional 15% of voters 18-29 that's significant, and may not be included in the pollings. So that's on the excitement of candidate Harris.

Then you have abortion on the ballots of 8 states, and 3 states are pending. 2 of which are in Montana and FL, Reps have lossed in even the ruby red states on this issue. What is interesting to me is does the increase in turnouts bleed into the senate races? MT and FL will likely be for Trump, but will it help Scott or Tester? Same prediction as before, if Dems get vote registrations to match or surpass 2020 FL, Trump will lose (narrowest of margins) and Scott is blown out.

[SubCmdr]

There are two sides to all markets, the buyers and the sellers

I find it interesting that no one ever deals with the demand side of the US drug market. If citizens of the United States of America were not demanding drugs and willing to pay for them in huge quantities there would be no drug problem now would it.

The problem is driven by the huge inequalities of wealth and income because the United States of America is a Plutocracy. Keeping the majority of the population dumbed down and drugged up works for the money classes in the United States of America. Especially since AI and robotics will create huge displacements in the current workforce. They are not also not interested in actually solving the problem from the demand side because the war on drugs is good for business. Incarceration is good for business. Incarceration allow the moneyed classes to target those groups they want less of because they themselves are not having enough babies to replace their own population. As demographic change, the revolution with not be televised.

Poor assumptions to what is a market.

If we shut down the border, pooffff, no more drug problems. If we catch ALL of the dealers, no more problems. If we decriminalize, that will solve the problem.

Reality is we have consumers (demand) and dealers (supply) legal and illegal. If the demand continues to rise, there will be suppliers. One reason why the border closing and arresting the dealers will not work is that the "NEXT guy" will step in to fill the void, whether starting up a meth lab in MEX or USA, or importing fentanyl through EU, ASIA, SA or even CAN. Silly to scapegoat MEX, even if it is the largest CURRENTLY.

What may work:

1. Bend the demand curve (Article of Portugal).

2. For less harmful drugs such as weeds, magic mushrooms, and natural products allow for home cultivation. You know, we've been chasing suppliers for more than 40 years, results are not good. This will bend the supply curve. And the suppliers (cartels) will, A. Try to shut down home operations or B. Get out of a non profitable business.

Drugs war we have been fighting is on too many fronts. There are serious issues and trivial ones, taking on ALL fronts and always from a chasing standpoint haven't worked, try something else.

[EihTooms]

You just know the hard Right Wingers at RealClearPolitics just hated to have to do this today:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/

With 270 Electoral College Votes to win: