Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES!

[EihTooms]

I just read the most crazy ass post in the Tulip section and there no use of any condoms there. Two ladies, milk, vomit, BBFS CIA and so on. I'm not sure what Tooms is doing wrong but I'm sure it's just his approach or just bad luck. I have had a lot of success in all the PSE shops and other massage places when it comes to going BB. Do I tip? Yes. Do I discuss this before hand? Most times no, I just go with the flow. Very rarely do I get a "no". What I do get sometimes is a request for a tip and I when I do get that request, I always tell them no problem. Also I always tip if the service is good.

FYI, not related to massage, but the only time I mention BBFS CIP before hand is if I'm negotiating is quick ST off of TF, but for girls working in the bars or freelancers I meet outside, I normally go with the flow.

One important message though. If you start BB and the girl asks you to stop and wear a condom and she won't budge on the idea, please comply by putting on a condom or end the session, pay a small amount and exit stage left. Never continue without consent.

Based on everything I have read recently about these PSE Shops, apparently the only thing I have done "wrong" is I have only been choosing ladies among the "20%" or so of better lookers, sometimes the only good looking one in the shop, who comply with the same P4 P Law of Gravity that I had mistakenly assumed places like Tulip and Snow White had miraculously defied but clearly they have not; that the best looking girls in a bar, shop or any other P4 P venue are the most likely to give weak service and most definitely least likely to allow BBFSCIP with a first time customer.

Part of my mistake was in believing a lot of nonsense here about how Anything Goes With Tulip Girls and Snow White Girls, They Never Say No, Never Disappoint, that as long as you're a nice guy and treat them well, BBFSCIP is almost a certainty without even discussing it up front.

However, the apparent reality is that there is still the 20%, 10% or let's say 5% of the girls in those shops as there is everywhere who will not allow BBFSCIP and not coincidentally they are likely to be the youngest and best looking in those shops, the same Law of P4 P Gravity that exists everywhere else.

So I don't think there is anything remarkable about the math for a punter like me who has only ever chosen the best looking girl in the lineup to also only be choosing from among that 20%, 10% or let's say 5% of girls who will most assuredly say NO to BBFSCIP with any first time customer.

It wouldn't be a remarkable outcome if the score was 50 NO's out of 50 tries for a customer who only chose from among that 5%. So for sure I don't see anything remarkable about it being 12 No's out of 12 tries in those shops over the years of only stopping in to take someone 1-2 times in a year at most as it has been for me.

By stark contrast, if I was a customer who frequented those shops, stopped into one or both every week or two, just chose any random girl or whoever is new or perhaps with the goal of sessioning with every girl in the shop, and all of it regardless whether they are the best looking one in the shop or not, I feel quite certain my rate of success in getting no discussion, no hassle BBFSCIP would be the same "80%" or so I have read some of the more frequent patrons of those shops claim.

I don't recall anyone ever claiming in these threads that they get no discussion, no hassle BBFSCIP with every girl who works or has ever worked in Tulip and Snow White over the past 12 years.

Is anybody claiming that?

So let's say "80%" of the girls in those shops will deliver it to virtually anyone on a 1st session and 20% won't.

Now, wouldn't that be a more realistic way of assessing it than suggesting every girl in those shops will deliver it to any nice guy who brushed his teeth and changed his socks that day?

Then, imo, this has been a worthwhile side topic in this thread for anyone who has been led to believe otherwise about those shops.

Actually, if my mission was to session with every girl at Tulip and Snow White over this next month regardless of their age, weight and level of attractiveness, I dare say my rare good looks, uncommonly compelling charm, impeccable hygiene and reputation for being the nicest guy in Thailand would probably result in as much as an 85% success rate in getting no discussion, no hassle BBFSCIP in those shops! LOL.

But then I would have to session with a lot of ladies I never would have chosen if not for committing to that challenge. So there is that.

[Zam007]

If there's anything useful, maybe you can share those tips here too?

I don't know if this is the right thread and I am sure it has been covered, but hearing this from a doctor who goes to boom boom and little Thai bunga bunga sessions regularly, really reinforced the seriousness in these issues.

They have their ways of driving a point. Not the exact words they used but from what I can remember they said something like "Girls may look pretty on the outside, but they are as contaminated as a public men's toilet. Would we rub our dicks in urinary bowls? So, he was basically trying to remind me to use condoms." Always wash mouth preferably with non alcoholic mouth wash if we were going down for a long time and then kiss and vice versa". And some more short advices which we already know.

Apart from Bacara and another gogo (which Thais say is a joke for the price they charge), majority of the gogo bars there have girls come and go. They are not well educated or informed when it comes to these things. They are not as assertive to the clients when the clients demand something unreasonable. Another factor seems to be the fact that girls are cheap there.

They may quote 6 k for LT, but you can easily bring it down to 2.5 k as I've seen some of my friends do. Of course, 2.5 k is excluding the lady drink and barfine. Hence the chances of those girls coming in contact with people with lower sense of hygiene is higher.

Thai men have contacts with local girls with whom they can do what they want for the price due to the mutual trust and their attention to their health. So, they don't actually have this problem that we tourists have.

BTW. This is what he and his buddy who is also a doctor advised me. I am already as careful as I can be. Like I said, I don't raw hookers.

And this was discussion about the girls from Soi Cowboy.

Not a big expert in picking up girls from GOGO bars. I have had more success with picking up girls from TF for free than picking one good one from gogo bars for a lot of reasons. I will save that for another day.

[EverythingThai]

I just read the most crazy ass post in the Tulip section and there no use of any condoms there. Two ladies, milk, vomit, BBFS CIA and so on. I'm not sure what Tooms is doing wrong but I'm sure it's just his approach or just bad luck. I have had a lot of success in all the PSE shops and other massage places when it comes to going BB. Do I tip? Yes. Do I discuss this before hand? Most times no, I just go with the flow. Very rarely do I get a "no". What I do get sometimes is a request for a tip and I when I do get that request, I always tell them no problem. Also I always tip if the service is good.

FYI, not related to massage, but the only time I mention BBFS CIP before hand is if I'm negotiating is quick ST off of TF, but for girls working in the bars or freelancers I meet outside, I normally go with the flow.

One important message though. If you start BB and the girl asks you to stop and wear a condom and she won't budge on the idea, please comply by putting on a condom or end the session, pay a small amount and exit stage left. Never continue without consent.

[Werqweq]

Again I'm going to bring up something that some folks don't want to hear. The way you look and the way you take care of yourself matters. Guys who are grossly out of shape, dress poorly, and I have poor hygiene and grooming habits are going to have less success no matter what their age or financial situation is. I'm pushing 60, but in the gym 5 days a week, eat well, don't smoke, drink minimally and never before a session, keep my face and the nether regions shaved, take a shower immediately before going to an oily, and don't dress like I'm out for a day at the beach. In other words hold yourself to the same standards that you hold the gals you are with.

It's so damn obvious that it's difficult to understand why it's even a topic of debate. How isolated does one have to be to not have noticed that it's the same everywhere else in life too?

Smile, be friendly, be polite, look decent, look clean, and the demeanor of almost everyone improves. From the coffee shop girl, from the check-in staff at the airport, or from the girl you're paying to fuck.
Doesn't at all mean to dress up or anything like that. Just look like somebody who gives a fuck about his appearance, rather than someone who's last shower was the last time it rained.

Some people are too damn set on the "I'm paying them, so wtf do I need to be nice" attitude. My father is like that, so whenever we're together and dealing with anyone who has to do something for him (airport, bank, car mechanic, even government workers who really don't give a damn about whether he gets what he wants or not, as nobody is going to fire them almost no matter what they do), I have to do my best to make him keep his mouth shut and let me talk, or whatever he wants to do will take twice as long and be done in a half-assed way, if at all.

[Goatscrot]

I have to disagree goat. I have to disagree strongly. We see plenty, and I mean a metric ton of super old, decrepit, fat, disheveled, disgusting, one big mac away from a heart attack Danny Devito farang types all over Thailand. From Pattaya to Phuket. From Hua Hin to Udon Thani, and of course all over Bangkok. And every single one of these fucks has a Thai chick with him. Granted, some of these Thai chicks are not exactly hot, but some of them are. You don't even need to have that much cash. Just be farang. That's all it takes. You'll pick up a Thai chick, easy.

If dudes going to Thailand had to hold themselves to the same standards as the chicks, why are dudes even going there? I'd just pick up chicks here. But I'm too ugly for that. Thailand exists solely for those of us who cannot get chicks the normal way back home. Plain and simple. Without Thailand, I'd never get laid. And by Lucifer's balls, I'm going to eat all the chicken wings and coke I want. What am I going to do with more life anyway? Spend it so I can be alive even longer without getting laid? Just kill me already.

These girls are human. Overall, you're going to get better service if you take care of yourself. We can't do anything about ugly or aging, we can do things about the shape we're in, the way we groom, and the way we dress. That's what I mean by standards. Not to mention once health, happiness, vigor, and vitality is better if one takes care of oneself. I don't follow my regime so I will live forever, I don't want to live forever, I have family members who have lived well into their nineties and it's not fun, I keep to that regimen because I want to stay active and vital as long as I possibly can. There are Thai and foreign dudes at my gym well into their seventies that are still an amazing shape and have all their bodily functions about them. That's the key isn't it?

Absolutely there are old decrepit dudes with younger good looking women, but we definitely know the nature of that relationship, and there's nothing wrong with it.

Honestly, I had no problem getting women back home. My issue was variety, and the fact that you had to put forth more effort than I wanted to in order to consummate. In fact I would say the most of the women I was with the United States were better looking than a lot of the gals I've had here in Thailand. But again, the amount of work it takes over there. And Western women are a pain in the keister. P4 P is just the way to go.
I absolutely love your posts and your candor.

[Newton York]

Again I'm going to bring up something that some folks don't want to hear. The way you look and the way you take care of yourself matters. Guys who are grossly out of shape, dress poorly, and I have poor hygiene and grooming habits are going to have less success no matter what their age or financial situation is. I'm pushing 60, but in the gym 5 days a week, eat well, don't smoke, drink minimally and never before a session, keep my face and the nether regions shaved, take a shower immediately before going to an oily, and don't dress like I'm out for a day at the beach. In other words hold yourself to the same standards that you hold the gals you are with.

I have to disagree goat. I have to disagree strongly. We see plenty, and I mean a metric ton of super old, decrepit, fat, disheveled, disgusting, one big mac away from a heart attack Danny Devito farang types all over Thailand. From Pattaya to Phuket. From Hua Hin to Udon Thani, and of course all over Bangkok. And every single one of these fucks has a Thai chick with him. Granted, some of these Thai chicks are not exactly hot, but some of them are. You don't even need to have that much cash. Just be farang. That's all it takes. You'll pick up a Thai chick, easy.

If dudes going to Thailand had to hold themselves to the same standards as the chicks, why are dudes even going there? I'd just pick up chicks here. But I'm too ugly for that. Thailand exists solely for those of us who cannot get chicks the normal way back home. Plain and simple. Without Thailand, I'd never get laid. And by Lucifer's balls, I'm going to eat all the chicken wings and coke I want. What am I going to do with more life anyway? So I can be alive even longer without getting laid? Just kill me already.

But yes, I do agree with shaving your balls. Shave your balls fellas. I like my chicks to be shaved down there too. No freaking landing strip, or a puff of hair nonsense. Just clean, silky smooth shaved.

Do you guys remember Dennis Nedry from Jurassic Park. That's right. I'm that fat and ugly. And decades older. There's no amount of grooming, or showering, or taking care of myself that's going to make a girl like me. I'm a garbage can folks, and you can polish a garbage can all you want, but it's still trash.

That's why I LOVE Thai girls. No matter what nonsense you are, flash them cash, and you're good to go.

[Goatscrot]

If there's anything useful, maybe you can share those tips here too?

Sounds terrible. Fortunately never had that happen to me in Thailand yet.

Again I'm going to bring up something that some folks don't want to hear. The way you look and the way you take care of yourself matters. Guys who are grossly out of shape, dress poorly, and I have poor hygiene and grooming habits are going to have less success no matter what their age or financial situation is. I'm pushing 60, but in the gym 5 days a week, eat well, don't smoke, drink minimally and never before a session, keep my face and the nether regions shaved, take a shower immediately before going to an oily, and don't dress like I'm out for a day at the beach. In other words hold yourself to the same standards that you hold the gals you are with.

[EihTooms]

With so many other people here, me included, getting BBFS without much or any problem at the same places, I cannot help think that you are doing something to turn these girls off. "Going with the flow" in at least 80% of the cases leads to BBFS for me, and obviously many others here too. In most cases, without any tip demanded beforehand also.

I only tried to get an upfront agreement for a week or two on thaifriendly (never tried that anywhere else), and with terrible success rate, so I quickly stopped doing that as it was not working for me at all with the girls I were interested in.

Obviously whatever it is you're doing now is not working for you, so there's not much point in continuing doing it. Change what you you're doing until you start getting some success.

Thanks, but I think you are mixing up some pertinent context here; I have never requested an upfront agreement for BBFSCIP in any of these so-called PSE Shops. Given the testimonials for how Anything Goes, They Never Say No To Anything, Never Disappoint, I didn't think an upfront agreement for it was necessary in those places for a nice change. I now know that cannot be counted on so much anymore.

But the upfront agreement approach does work much better for me with options like gogo bars and FLs where there have never been Anything Goes, They Never Say No To Anything claims made by most punters who frequent them.

Also, the admission by most fans of those PSE Shops that the girls aren't hired for their looks but for their skills, in large part explains why I do "change what I am doing" by only experimenting with one of those places once or twice in a year, if that much. Therefore, the vast majority of the time I go where my methods do work fairly well for me instead.

I would also say that if you and everyone else is getting BBFSCIP "at least 80% of the time" in those shops without an upfront agreement for it, that other 20% could easily account for punters who are only choosing the best lookers or the one good looker in those shops not getting BBFSCIP any time they go there.

As was also the case for another poster here last November with the same hot girl I took at Snow White a couple of nights ago.

[Werqweq]

Aside from that, I can't count the number of times I have done a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" and gotten exactly as close to entering bareback in the way you described your tease and the girl has still slapped her hand over her vagina, rolled off the bed, stood up and delivered the Safety First, Must Wear Condom, No Condom No Sex, No Lady in Thailand Will Do That With You lecture I have grown to know and love so much over the years. LOL.

Hense, my preference for getting that upfront agreement for it.

With so many other people here, me included, getting BBFS without much or any problem at the same places, I cannot help think that you are doing something to turn these girls off. "Going with the flow" in at least 80% of the cases leads to BBFS for me, and obviously many others here too. In most cases, without any tip demanded beforehand also.

I only tried to get an upfront agreement for a week or two on thaifriendly (never tried that anywhere else), and with terrible success rate, so I quickly stopped doing that as it was not working for me at all with the girls I were interested in.

Obviously whatever it is you're doing now is not working for you, so there's not much point in continuing doing it. Change what you you're doing until you start getting some success.

[Werqweq]

Many girls from Soi Cowboy do BBFS without extra tips and many disappear after contracting serious diseases and I got to know this through some Thai Doctors I met and of course, we shared our stories of exploits and they gave me a few tips to avoid getting into trouble and still have fun. I am really thankful to them.

If there's anything useful, maybe you can share those tips here too?

Then there are MPs that don't even do BBJ these days. MPs like Addict, Club 102 and Annalisa and I was surprised that even Doki Doki don't do BBJ. I thought it was just me who had this experience in Doki, but even a Korean friend had this issue.

Sounds terrible. Fortunately never had that happen to me in Thailand yet.

[EihTooms]

Back in the good old days all the girls at the PSE shops had a certain level of skill. I actually think the owners and Mama sons it's been a bit of time telling them what was expected of them and actually giving a little training. That's hasn't existed for a long time, and taking a newbie is an enormous risk. In addition there are some that go to work there and only last a day or two.

One of the reasons I chose the best looking girl at Snow White and have done the same at any of the highly touted so-called PSE Shops is precisely because those 4-5 shops are or were internationally famous for having girls who were supposedly trained in the arts and skills, all about providing Porn Sex Experiences and no bullshit. Given that reputation, it wouldn't make sense to choose the ugliest girl in the lineup or even a middling girl. Of course, I would choose the best looker in the lineup.

Which is definitely NOT what I do in a gogo bar. I doubt any gogo girl has ever been trained to do anything but hustle Lady Drinks. If anything, their goal is to make as much money as possible by providing the least amount of sex. Especially the best lookers among them.

Therefore, it wouldn't make sense for a BBFSCIP punter like me to choose the best looker in any gogo bar. That would be an illogical waste of time. I focus on the 2nd Tier lookers in a gogo bar for my purposes, not the Top Tier lookers.

But in Tulip and Snow White? I didn't realize the expectations and standards of the girls by the mamasans and owners had fallen to the point where now I need to go for the 2nd or 3rd Tier lookers in those shops in order to avoid the same Beauty Trap disappointment I am pretty good at avoiding in gogo bars.

BTW, out of curiosity I did a search on this forum for the girl I chose that night. I don't like to name names or come close to doing so of bad service providers for me unless I am certain the bad service was an out and out scam. Especially considering my particular session goal and, as it was this time, when I didn't stipulate what I wanted upfront in some detail along with a clear upfront agreement from the girl for it and instead I mostly "went with the flow and see what happens in the room."

To a certain extent I then can't complain or blame the girl for "what happens in the room" since it damn well could be anything or nothing and if it's nothing I was the one who made that bet and lost.

But I will say that in my search I see that girl's name popped up as far back as November of last year, that a poster did indicate she was hot but that her service / skills were lacking and that, at least in his experience, she does not provide Anal or BBFS.

[Goatscrot]

Goat, in addition to the luck of the draw issue, I agree with you that choosing a better looker in any group increases the chance of getting the lesser performer, even if the performance level of the shop is in general very high.

I'm sure my choice of girl is a factor.

However, I don't see any value in choosing a girl whose looks don't appeal to me just so I can say I finally got Real Sex in one of those shops.

And, honestly, it isn't as though there have been 3-4 doable girls in the lineups I have encountered at these shops and I foolishly chose the wrong one among them.

In my last 3 visits to shops like that, Tulip, Princess, if that shop qualifies and counts, and this time at Snow White, there was only one in a line up of 9-10 that was doable at all in my mind. And that is the one I chose.

At Snow White only 1 girl other than the one I chose even stood up for me to assess their body. All of the others just sat their on what I can only assume were butts too fat to risk showing off. But what I could see while they just sat there was fat, flabby, loose skin thighs and bellies hanging over their waistbands.

If any of the ones I didn't choose were prepared to deliver the Porn Sex Star Experience of my life, I am afraid I will never know about it because I would much rather dodge having that memory in my data bank.

Now, on your little teaser where you almost stick it in bareback just to see what happens, wouldn't the girls in these shops whose owners, mamasans and many of the girls already know you very well also know you are never a bareback customer and probably only teasing anyway? Just asking.

Aside from that, I can't count the number of times I have done a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" and gotten exactly as close to entering bareback in the way you described your tease and the girl has still slapped her hand over her vagina, rolled off the bed, stood up and delivered the Safety First, Must Wear Condom, No Condom No Sex, No Lady in Thailand Will Do That With You lecture I have grown to know and love so much over the years. LOL.

Hense, my preference for getting that upfront agreement for it.

Still, what happens so often and happened with the girl at Snow White would not necessarily have been solved if the girl and the mamasan had both assured me upfront she would be fine with having BBFSCIP with me. The problem was her clumsy and inept technique regarding everything that at my age I need instead of simply painting a bullseye target on her vagina and me aiming and plunging ahead from across the room after stepping out of the shower. And that is what was sorely lacking here to the point of being counterproductive.

I have no idea what would have happened at the point of non teasing entry with her. But I know if I had just plunged in with no effective preliminaries at all I would have been seriously distracted by whatever that sandpaper rough device was right inside her vagina.

Back in the good old days all the girls at the PSE shops had a certain level of skill. I actually think the owners and Mama sons it's been a bit of time telling them what was expected of them and actually giving a little training. That's hasn't existed for a long time, and taking a newbie is an enormous risk. In addition there are some that go to work there and only last a day or two.

[HorseTrader]

But would you say the random cross section that included only the girls in the shop willing to raise their hand for providing BBFSCIP were also among the best lookers in the shop? Or would none of Bthem have been in your ranking for the 3-4 best lookers in the shop before you knew anything about their willingness to provide BBFSCIP?

The girl I selected was one of the two or three good looking girls sitting outside the massage shop that afternoon. There was no need to accept a less pretty girl to satisfy my requirement for BBFS.

Ill write more about this in a future trip report, should I decide to post it.

[EihTooms]

I've done BBFS at the other oily parlors and I don't see a link between best looking girls and limited services. Mamasan picks out the girls who provide BBFS and then she gives me a limited selection, which looks to me like a random cross section. Perhaps availability of BBFS is more related to financial need/desire. Last time I picked the prettiest BBFS girl and had terrific service in the room.

But would you say the random cross section that included only the girls in the shop willing to raise their hand for providing BBFSCIP were also among the best lookers in the shop? Or would none of them have been in your ranking for the 3-4 best lookers in the shop before you knew anything about their willingness to provide BBFSCIP?

Because if the group designated by the mamasan were not also among the best lookers in the shop anyway, wouldn't that support our contention that the best lookers in a shop are less inclined to provide the best service?

I mean, assuming for the point of this topic the measure for the best service providers in a shop being those who provide BBFSCIP, that is.

[EihTooms]

Tooms, I'm absolutely stunned that you have such bad luck in these shops. I've been frequenting the PSE joints since 2007. In fact I would say 90 plus percent of my activities since 2007 has been in these shops. I know all the owners quite well and if they are there talk with them on each visit. I also know all of the mama signs as the majority of them were ex-workers. I myself am not a BBFS guy, but I can certainly tell you that at least 75% of all of the girls in those shops will allow it. How do I know that? Well sometimes it's kind of fun to tease myself and act like I'm just going to stick it in there without wrapping. And it never really seems to be a problem. Also about 90 plus percent are okay with CIM.

Now where you might run into some issues is choosing the best looking girl out of the lineup. That one will always provide lesser service then the veterans.

I'm also reading a lot of reports of guys getting BBFS at some of the other oily parlors. But again going and choose the best looking girl and you're going to get the most limited service because she knows she can get away with it. Just my two cents.

Goat, in addition to the luck of the draw issue, I agree with you that choosing a better looker in any group increases the chance of getting the lesser performer, even if the performance level of the shop is in general very high.

I'm sure my choice of girl is a factor.

However, I don't see any value in choosing a girl whose looks don't appeal to me just so I can say I finally got Real Sex in one of those shops.

And, honestly, it isn't as though there have been 3-4 doable girls in the lineups I have encountered at these shops and I foolishly chose the wrong one among them.

In my last 3 visits to shops like that, Tulip, Princess, if that shop qualifies and counts, and this time at Snow White, there was only one in a line up of 9-10 that was doable at all in my mind. And that is the one I chose.

At Snow White only 1 girl other than the one I chose even stood up for me to assess their body. All of the others just sat their on what I can only assume were butts too fat to risk showing off. But what I could see while they just sat there was fat, flabby, loose skin thighs and bellies hanging over their waistbands.

If any of the ones I didn't choose were prepared to deliver the Porn Sex Star Experience of my life, I am afraid I will never know about it because I would much rather dodge having that memory in my data bank.

Now, on your little teaser where you almost stick it in bareback just to see what happens, wouldn't the girls in these shops whose owners, mamasans and many of the girls already know you very well also know you are never a bareback customer and probably only teasing anyway? Just asking.

Aside from that, I can't count the number of times I have done a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" and gotten exactly as close to entering bareback in the way you described your tease and the girl has still slapped her hand over her vagina, rolled off the bed, stood up and delivered the Safety First, Must Wear Condom, No Condom No Sex, No Lady in Thailand Will Do That With You lecture I have grown to know and love so much over the years. LOL.

Hense, my preference for getting that upfront agreement for it.

Still, what happens so often and happened with the girl at Snow White would not necessarily have been solved if the girl and the mamasan had both assured me upfront she would be fine with having BBFSCIP with me. The problem was her clumsy and inept technique regarding everything that at my age I need instead of simply painting a bullseye target on her vagina and me aiming and plunging ahead from across the room after stepping out of the shower. And that is what was sorely lacking here to the point of being counterproductive.

I have no idea what would have happened at the point of non teasing entry with her. But I know if I had just plunged in with no effective preliminaries at all I would have been seriously distracted by whatever that sandpaper rough device was right inside her vagina.