General Reports

[Daytonamonger]

Haven't seen Hargrow20 post since sometime last year. He definitely used to post sometimes multiple times a day and several times each week. Then it just abruptly stop. It's interesting to say the least.

Sometimes people just stop posting. It could be due to finding a steady relationship outside of the mongering paradigm or something horrible like an illness / death.

Possibly his situation just doesn't let him get to Tijuana anymore. Maybe he found god?

I used to post alot more than I currently do mainly due to finding Thailand a much better relaxation destination and value than Tijuana.

[MongerHunger]

Haven't seen Hargrow20 post since sometime last year. He definitely used to post sometimes multiple times a day and several times each week. Then it just abruptly stop. It's interesting to say the least.

[TomJackin]

With all the tarrif drama going on, is it impacting crossing by foot into Tijuana at the San Ysidro border nowadays?

I have crossed several times in the last couple of months; no impact.

[Scbb1]

With all the tarrif drama going on, is it impacting crossing by foot into Tijuana at the San Ysidro border nowadays?

[Phordphan]

Companies often have independent contractors who if put to the test in court would be deemed employees under the FLSA. If HK is categorizing the chicas as independent contractors, that would fold like a cheap tent under legal scrutiny, but enforcement (not possession as the expression goes) is the real nine-tenths of the law. But as we all know, you put the money in the right hands and mysteriously everything runs smooth, especially in Mexico.

Agreed. Hence my question whether or not the Brizuelas have that kind of pull. They might. But I think they're also a pretty high-profile target. WTF knows. Unfortunately, Mexico is corrupt to its eye teeth.

[LuvMexicanas]

I do know that, by Mexican labor law, the girls are not independent contractors. To be an IC you must set your own working hours, and you cannot have any direct supervision. Among other things. None of which apply to the girls in HK. Now, perhaps the Brizuela family has enough pull to flout that law.

Companies often have independent contractors who if put to the test in court would be deemed employees under the FLSA. If HK is categorizing the chicas as independent contractors, that would fold like a cheap tent under legal scrutiny, but enforcement (not possession as the expression goes) is the real nine-tenths of the law. But as we all know, you put the money in the right hands and mysteriously everything runs smooth, especially in Mexico.

[Sol12]

I have no idea of HK's current practices, hence the disclaimer. All I know is she had to have some proof of income, she apparently asked her boss, and they gave it to her. Whether or not this was SOP is anyone's guess.

An easy way to check is to see if the girl qualifies for IMSS. If she can avail herself of "free" medical care then she's an employee. If not, she can't, unless she's also employed elsewhere or makes her annual contributions herself, which is doubtful but possible.

If the girls can come and go as they please, and nobody tells them how to do their job, then they are, indeed, independent. If not, they are employees and are supposed to be paid. If they are not paid then HK ownership is in flagrant violation. I don't care either way. HK is a clip joint, they treat their customers poorly and the girls worse. Personally, I spend my money elsewhere.

You seem to think I'm not believing what you saw, that is not the case I'm just confused on what it was exactly and how legit it is. So some of my questions aren't exactly questioning you but just what I'm thinking in my head and maybe something someone else might be able to answer. Obviously this would be a conversation to be better had in person but since that won't happen we are stuck going back and forth here where which makes it harder to facilitate communication.

One reason why I also question them being HK employees and having a record is in the past girls looking for a US Visa got nervous about the health card thinking that it would prove they worked as a prostitute and denied the Visa. So I would be surprised them openly showing that they worked at a place like HK. I'm sure HK hides its business under a different name but it wouldn't be hard for the government to figure it out it just depends how much they look into it.

As far as HK being a clip joint I disagree, if you've been to other places in Mexico it's much worse. IMO HK tries not to take advantage of the clients, do waiters do dishonest things, of course but HK can only babysit them so much. At some point you have to realize that with so many drunk unruly males things will get out of control and lots of the problems I read about come from guys not complaining to management. As far as how they treat the girls I'm not sure what more you want them to do, whenever I see girls from other bars that are now working in HK they are very happy. This also goes for the number of girls I've met at other bars in Mexico that work in HK from time to time they never say anything negative. Like any business there will be disgruntled employees but they usually tell one side of the story without you talking to HK about there side.

HK is definitely not perfect but for the high volume of customer and employees I think they do a good job. In all my years of going to the Zona in general weather it was CC or AB back in the early days or HK now I never had bad experiences that stick out thinking that I'm being taken advantage of. I don't doubt smaller bars have a more comfortable environment this was why we use to hang out at Tropical back in the day. It felt like a more family atmosphere with less pressure on the clients and girls not so worried about going upstairs. HK is not that way but I would not consider it a clip joint.

[Phordphan]

Yes I know what you said that's why I referred him to the other section were it has been discussed. The thing that I get confused on is that from what I understand HK gave her this payroll information to help her with child support. So why doesn't HK give any type of paper work showing this proof to the girls? Not sure how the taxes work in Mexico but wouldn't they need to show proof of income for taxes and other things. Also if they pay Social Security wouldn't they want a record of what they have paid into the system? This is what I question because like I said in our previous discussions the ex never had any paperwork as proof of working at any bar, and I never heard any girls bring up getting paid..

I have no idea of HK's current practices, hence the disclaimer. All I know is she had to have some proof of income, she apparently asked her boss, and they gave it to her. Whether or not this was SOP is anyone's guess.

An easy way to check is to see if the girl qualifies for IMSS. If she can avail herself of "free" medical care then she's an employee. If not, she can't, unless she's also employed elsewhere or makes her annual contributions herself, which is doubtful but possible.

If the girls can come and go as they please, and nobody tells them how to do their job, then they are, indeed, independent. If not, they are employees and are supposed to be paid. If they are not paid then HK ownership is in flagrant violation. I don't care either way. HK is a clip joint, they treat their customers poorly and the girls worse. Personally, I spend my money elsewhere.

[Sol12]

Yes, I've seen the payroll register. I didn't retain a photocopy, so my bad, I guess. It looked like any other payroll register. Name, their equivalent of SSN, hours worked, salary. I did note that the list was very long, and the girl I was helping just had copies of the relevant dates she worked. These were legal docs and were used to establish her pay for child support reasons.

As I said then and now, perhaps my information is dated. Perhaps they no longer do that. I do know that, by Mexican labor law, the girls are not independent contractors. To be an IC you must set your own working hours, and you cannot have any direct supervision. Among other things. None of which apply to the girls in HK. Now, perhaps the Brizuela family has enough pull to flout that law. I have zero idea. It's Mexico, and stranger things have happened.

Yes I know what you said that's why I referred him to the other section were it has been discussed. The thing that I get confused on is that from what I understand HK gave her this payroll information to help her with child support. So why doesn't HK give any type of paper work showing this proof to the girls? Not sure how the taxes work in Mexico but wouldn't they need to show proof of income for taxes and other things. Also if they pay Social Security wouldn't they want a record of what they have paid into the system? This is what I question because like I said in our previous discussions the ex never had any paperwork as proof of working at any bar, and I never heard any girls bring up getting paid.

I admit it wasn't anything I cared about in the past as I have always just thought the girls get paid with drinks and going upstairs so why would the bar pay them on top of that. Later when I had seen this subject discussed I figured that maybe they work more like a commissioned salesperson who has a minimum amount of pay but if the commission is more they end up only getting paid the commission. I remember in the previous conversation you mentioned something like the pay being 50 pesos a day which would be easily offset by selling a few fichas depending how long ago it was.

I also think that it could be possible for HK to just make up payroll receipts to look like they are following the law but again I'm clueless on how the government controls this. I've been reading a lot of the recent articles on the new 40 hour work week they are rolling out and it seems that those in the service industry have different laws or standards.

Right now the minimum wage for work in Tijuana is about 419 pesos. So I'm not sure how it works for those that work off of tips or commission sales. I remember when I lived in Tijuana they had some Telemarketing jobs that paid very well if you spoke English. I would think that the reason it paid well was only if you made sales because of the commission. Maybe Jim will give some insight or I can try to bring it up to people I work with that live in Tijuana I just have to be careful not to ask about girls that work at HK. LOL.

You really need to get over the IC comment from before. LOL The girls come and go as they please when it comes to time off. If they want to be working in the bar they have a minimum amount of time that HK requires because HK knows how lazy they can be so yes HK keeps track of when they work but the girls don't have the same rules as other HK workers like the waiters.

[Phordphan]

I've never heard that they receive a salary or some kind of hourly wage. Though I often have wondered how some of them manage because many of the grls rarely seem to get any business. This is especially true in the lesser clubs like Tropical and Chicago. The only thing I've ever heard is that they receive money for fichas and for going to the room.

It was a daily thing, not an hourly thing. It wasn't much, and I suspect it may have been lower than the minimum wage at the time because they may have offset the salary with a presumed tip amount. I have absolutely no idea if that was the case, but IIRC Mexican law still allows employers to give you less pay if you're a tipped employee.

[Phordphan]

Well Phordy and me have disagreed about this in the past and basically we have different experiences in knowing girls that worked. The discussion is still in the "stupid shit In Tijuana" thread.

Neither one of us have any proof of this besides what we've been told but he said he has seen payroll records but seems to have few details on that.

I might try to bring it up on my next visit along with the pay that chicas get for fichas still being 50 pesos. I haven't asked in a long time but find it unlikely they get so little.

Yes, I've seen the payroll register. I didn't retain a photocopy, so my bad, I guess. It looked like any other payroll register. Name, their equivalent of SSN, hours worked, salary. I did note that the list was very long, and the girl I was helping just had copies of the relevant dates she worked. These were legal docs and were used to establish her pay for child support reasons.

As I said then and now, perhaps my information is dated. Perhaps they no longer do that. I do know that, by Mexican labor law, the girls are not independent contractors. To be an IC you must set your own working hours, and you cannot have any direct supervision. Among other things. None of which apply to the girls in HK. Now, perhaps the Brizuela family has enough pull to flout that law. I have zero idea. It's Mexico, and stranger things have happened.

[Sol12]

I've never heard that they receive a salary or some kind of hourly wage. Though I often have wondered how some of them manage because many of the grls rarely seem to get any business. This is especially true in the lesser clubs like Tropical and Chicago. The only thing I've ever heard is that they receive money for fichas and for going to the room.

Well Phordy and me have disagreed about this in the past and basically we have different experiences in knowing girls that worked. The discussion is still in the "stupid shit In Tijuana" thread.

Neither one of us have any proof of this besides what we've been told but he said he has seen payroll records but seems to have few details on that.

I might try to bring it up on my next visit along with the pay that chicas get for fichas still being 50 pesos. I haven't asked in a long time but find it unlikely they get so little.

[Sol12]

OK, appreciate the insight. Yeah, that's kind of what I'd been suspecting which is why I posted here for input. She's a lovely, very nice chica but is a bit introverted and mostly hangs out in the back of the club sitting down, not really engaging with the customers. I've always wondered how she can sell fichas and make $$$ that way but I like to mind my own business so I've never asked her about it. When I met her during COVID at Adelitas (this was back when Adelitas was "closed" but was still operating in the hallways on its 2nd floor) it was actually one of her friends who introduced me to her, she probably never would've approached me. I've mentioned her before on these boards, she was friends with and lived in the same apartment building as the chica who got murdered a few years ago by that basketball player from Rutgers.

Well I'm always going to feel bad for someone I'm fond of potentially losing their job because that's just me LOL. But you're right in that I'm probably the last guy on these boards that's going to give any of these chicas extra $$ even if I feel bad for them. In all my years going to Tijuana have never given a chica $$$ even once other than for services rendered inside the hotel room. A small tip if I liked the service is about the best I can do there. I'll say though that this chica has never asked me for $$$ and didn't ask for any when she messaged me last week. None of my regular chicas have ever asked me for money outside of the job actually, which is probably one of the reasons why I stick with them.

Yes I remember you mentioning that a girl you knew had known the girl that was killed.

I understand feeling bad for her but I think girls that are still in the business after the age of 25 are on the constant pressure of getting less work for each year they continue to work. Some might of just made poor decisions but that's life. Any girl I talk to if work comes up I always tell them to try not and get involved in doing drugs and do something with the money they make because they don't want to be working in the bar like some of the older girls in the club. Not sure what your friends situation is maybe this will make her figure out something else to do. Like I said lots of women just like to talk about problems for the sympathy and understanding while others might be trying to bring it up just to see if you offer anything. Depending on how well she knows the nature of men she might not have to ask for money because often guys will bring it up without her having to ask. Like I said I have no idea on her in this case I'm just speaking of previous experiences I've had or know of.

[BrotherMouzone]

I doubt it has to do with slowing of business but more likely she is not producing enough either in the way of fichas or going with customers. Nothing had a report on seeing more HK girls being moved to Tropical for various reasons. Your girl might just have had chances before getting moved and this time she is just suspended for a month. Like Jim said the girls don't cost the bar anything but if they don't think a girl is helping to bring in business they will move on.

OK, appreciate the insight. Yeah, that's kind of what I'd been suspecting which is why I posted here for input. She's a lovely, very nice chica but is a bit introverted and mostly hangs out in the back of the club sitting down, not really engaging with the customers. I've always wondered how she can sell fichas and make $$$ that way but I like to mind my own business so I've never asked her about it. When I met her during COVID at Adelitas (this was back when Adelitas was "closed" but was still operating in the hallways on its 2nd floor) it was actually one of her friends who introduced me to her, she probably never would've approached me. I've mentioned her before on these boards, she was friends with and lived in the same apartment building as the chica who got murdered a few years ago by that basketball player from Rutgers.

Every girl I've known that has gotten in trouble with any club they work at has never said they did anything wrong. They are women and like to complain to who ever will give them sympathy. All you can do is listen, I don't think you are the type but just in case don't feel bad for her and offer money to help her.

Well I'm always going to feel bad for someone I'm fond of potentially losing their job because that's just me LOL. But you're right in that I'm probably the last guy on these boards that's going to give any of these chicas extra $$ even if I feel bad for them. In all my years going to Tijuana have never given a chica $$$ even once other than for services rendered inside the hotel room. A small tip if I liked the service is about the best I can do there. I'll say though that this chica has never asked me for $$$ and didn't ask for any when she messaged me last week. None of my regular chicas have ever asked me for money outside of the job actually, which is probably one of the reasons why I stick with them.

[HK Monger]

Unless things have massively changed in the last several years, the girls DO get paid a very small salary. They are considered employees, and not independent contractors, by Mexican labor law (which, BTW, is very similar to California's independent contractor labor law). With the minimum wage in Tijuana going up, I can see why the bars would want to cut low-producing employees.

As my info is a bit old, I'd love it if anybody could produce some evidence that HK (and the other bars) are successfully flouting the labor laws.

I've never heard that they receive a salary or some kind of hourly wage. Though I often have wondered how some of them manage because many of the grls rarely seem to get any business. This is especially true in the lesser clubs like Tropical and Chicago. The only thing I've ever heard is that they receive money for fichas and for going to the room.