American Politics

[MarquisdeSade1]

Ah yes, taxes are the price we pay for a well functioning society. Yes, how on earth did Americans get by prior to 1913 and the income tax? Why, they must have been uncivilized. Thank God we had the TSA bringing civility to air travel. How did we ever get by before then? I love how taxpayers paying for your hookers makes us civil.

And now Canadians want to pay more in taxes and you believe them? Just like Buffett? Actually, if you recall, Spidy, I said I would pay more taxes too as long as parasites like you are willing to take less too. You must have missed that part.

Thank God we had the TSA bringing civility to air travel. How did we ever get by before then?

Not too well.

Do you remember 9/11? Do you remember what airport security was like pre 9/11, they were a joke that's why OBL was able to pull off 9/11.

I doubt there is a politician in DC wants to be the one to kill the TSA, not even turds like Thomas Massie or Rand Paul.

[MarquisdeSade1]

(...kkkk!) Our resident ART armchair critic #1, with not much to say, other than the usual, bigotry!


(...kkkk!) Our resident ART armchair critic #2, with EVEN LESS to say, other than the usual, bigotry!

Is it ART according to MAGA?:

Here go again, with our top 2, ISG MAGA culture war neophytes, as this time, they are desperately trying to be art critics? What it been like all of 5 minutes...and you guys, back so soon, with yet another MAGA culture-war puff piece?

No doubt, a puff piece and hack job, they saw on FOXY Muse, from a washed-up has-been journalist, who would thinks today's idea of "high art" is a viral meme OR an NFT depicting your Orange American Fuhrer next to orangutan, with the caption "Who's prettier?" (...kkkk!)

Renaissance Ideals vs. Modern Representation:

But jokes aside, what you both need to know is that, Price's depiction of his beautiful "everyday Black Woman" sculpture, entitled 'Grounded in the Stars', is nothing new or weird, as often strange depictions of women have played out throughout history, from Michelangelo to Picasso?

Picasso's women often described as "grotesque" and Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel women, such as the Cumaen Sibyl or Night on the Medici tombs, are notably muscular and athletic, with broad shoulders, defined abs, and powerful limbs, are often described as "men with breasts (checkout: "Why Michelangelo's Women Were So Manly?" https://medium.com/counterarts/why-m...y-e65cc309c8b1 )

BTW, Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel women, sounds wonderfully perfect for you MAGA INCEL, He Man Women Haters and armchair ART critics! But remember those, fat, nude, grotesque, and "men with breast", that have adorned the Sistine Chapel and other places, have weathered the controversy for decades, despite it's bigoted and narrow-minded critics.

"And controversy he got, despite a subtle degree of aggrandizement; Prices figure stands in a pose that nods to Michelangelo's David" https://news.artnet.com/art-world/th...debate-2642837 Fair or unfair critique of Prices 'Grounded in the Stars', is IMHO, the great controversy, that he intentionally challenges classical ideals by celebrating unapologetic, the contemporary body diversity, that so many famous artists before him have done.

So while other typical controversial statues like Robert E. Lee, Christopher Columbus or Theodore Roosevelt, have had their day in the sun and are now taken down, melted or stuffed in a museum somewhere, it can be also said, that controversial, "everyday Black Woman" sculpture 'Grounded in the Stars', its day will come, when it too, will have it's sunset moment. Till then, keep an open mind!

Just remember:

• "FREE YOUR MIND
  And the rest will follow
  Be colour-blind
  Don't be so shallow
  FREE YOUR MIND"

Oh, BTW...it isn't as if, you narrow minded, MAGA neophyte bigoted armchair critics wouldn't have equally complained about a statue/sculpture of Maya Angelou or Harriet Tubman, standing in Times Square. Bet you're asses, you'd all be applying some bigoted twist. It's "your nature", said the proverbial frog to the scorpion!

PS: Don't QUIT your day jobs! (...kkkk!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6MJkSRYc-4

[MarquisdeSade1]

Ah yes, taxes are the price we pay for a well functioning society. Yes, how on earth did Americans get by prior to 1913 and the income tax? Why, they must have been uncivilized. Thank God we had the TSA bringing civility to air travel. How did we ever get by before then? I love how taxpayers paying for your hookers makes us civil.

And now Canadians want to pay more in taxes and you believe them? Just like Buffett? Actually, if you recall, Spidy, I said I would pay more taxes too as long as parasites like you are willing to take less too. You must have missed that part.

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...-tootsie-roll/

[EihTooms]

Yes, thanks for repeating the article bought and paid for by China in the WSJ.

One country engaged in a massive stimulus when the tariff fight was announced and it was not the USA.

One country tried to hide its negotiations and it was not the USA.

One nation continued with mild inflation despite the naysayers saying surely there would be inflation from tariffs. Last CPI was 0. 2% and with an annual rate of 2. 4% just where the Fed says it wants the inflation rate.

One country has seen its stock market rise after the tariff fight began, and it is not China.

We tax China's goods at 30% and they tax ours at 10% and that according to the WSJ is a win for China. How much did China pay these mo fos?

To quote the WSJ, many of these bad Chinese practices have become worse under President Xi Jinping's strong-arm economic management. One tragedy of Mr. Trump's shoot-America-in-the-foot-first approach is that he's hurt his chances of rallying a united front of countries against Beijing's mercantilism. Where do these assholes come up with this stuff? The last I checked none of this was off the table.

By targeting allies with tariffs, Mr. Trump has eroded trust in America's economic and political reliability. Oh brother, you mean the "allies" who tax the shit out of our exports to them?

Beijing now also has the benefit of concrete experience to reassure the Communist Party that Washington would struggle to impose economic sanctions in a crisis such as a Chinese blockade or invasion of Taiwan. WTF is the WSJ talking about? If China invades Taiwan, it is Trump's fault? LOL.

Yep, Covid was Trump's not China's fault too. You cannot make this shit up.

But so far there's scant sign of the substantial trade deals that Mr. Trump promises. Yeah, six weeks in, there has been nothing accomplished? In comparison to whom? Biden? The Dems? Who saw record trade deficits and said they are fine?

But a 10% across-the-board tariff is still four times the average USA Tariff rate before Mr. Trump took office. And China has gone from 0% to 30%. That is what you call losing?

And what you and the lame brains from the WSJ do not get is that on packages less than $800, there are no tarfifs. As reported by the Fed, a 60% tariff rate adds at worst 2% to the CPI number.

Meanwhile, you Democratic douches are exposed as the frauds you are. You want to keep getting as many $ as possible or your hookers. You want rich Americans to pay more in taxes and you want China to pay nothing. You fools have no idea what it takes to balance a budget.

You make what was mostly the Biden Economy in America over the past 110 days or so sound much, much better than what was happening in China.

Well, it was good while it lasted:

Under of a cloud of tariffs, Walmart is the latest retailer to announce price hikes.
May 15, 2025

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/under...BaEvSqCX5GQcgc

Walmart Becomes Biggest Retailer Yet to Pass Through Tariff Price Increases.
Walmart plans to raise prices this month and early this summer; other retailers likely will follow.
May 15, 2025

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/...-2026-b978bcf5

BTW, "price hikes" and "increasing the cost" of things as Trump is determined to do does not necessarily equal a "higher rate of inflation" immediately.

Remember when it was all the rage for Trump and his MAGA Cult to associate higher prices for gas with inflation and thereby blame Trump's Pandemic Inflation on Biden?

The average price of a gallon of regular gasoline in the USA is higher today than it was yesterday, higher both days than it was a week ago, higher than it was a month ago, higher than it was on Biden's last day in office, higher than it was on election day under Biden.

Yet, I keep seeing MAGA memes all over the internet telling the world how great it is that gas prices are falling under Trump and I have not heard one Mainstream Media cable or network news source set the record straight about the higher price of gas since Trump was elected and took office.

Interesting, huh?

https://gasprices.aaa.com/

https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts

[SubCmdr]

Meanwhile, you Democratic douches are exposed as the frauds you are. You want to keep getting as many $ as possible or your hookers. You want rich Americans to pay more in taxes and you want China to pay nothing. You fools have no idea what it takes to balance a budget.

How are you paying your hookers?

Name the last president to balance the budget!

You cannot. Because if you look at how budget deficits work it is really the entire process handled by both the Article 1 and Article 2 branches that make it happen. It does not happen in one year or one term.

They do that to obscure the facts and history.

[Elvis 2008]

WOW!...you must REALLY be, in some kind of excruciating PAIN?

What I mean is, after finding out, one of YOUR BIGGEST financial investor heroes, is in prefect alignment with what I'm saying, w/r to the billionaires and corporations paying their fair of taxes, for the social good and benefit of a well functioning society

Ah yes, taxes are the price we pay for a well functioning society. Yes, how on earth did Americans get by prior to 1913 and the income tax? Why, they must have been uncivilized. Thank God we had the TSA bringing civility to air travel. How did we ever get by before then? I love how taxpayers paying for your hookers makes us civil.

And now Canadians want to pay more in taxes and you believe them? Just like Buffett? Actually, if you recall, Spidy, I said I would pay more taxes too as long as parasites like you are willing to take less too. You must have missed that part.

[Elvis 2008]

Followed by the Whole Wide World watching that China's retribution and retaliation right back onto America with even WORSE Tariffs.

Followed by the Whole Wide World watching Trump buckling, caving, grabbing his knees and taking it up the ass without KY-Jelly directly from Xi and THAT China until now he will only add a 10-30% Numbskull Trump Tariiff Additional Tax on the American Consumer onto everything they want and need to buy from China.

And this is after Xi and THAT China kicked Trump's ass up into his empty skull the first time around when Trump's failed Tariffs and Trade War with China resulted in THAT China getting damn near everything they wanted in exchange for giving virtually NOTHING to America while Trump plunged the USA Manufacturing and Agriculture sectors into a Recession so deep he had to issue emergency welfare checks just to keep them afloat.

Yes, thanks for repeating the article bought and paid for by China in the WSJ.

One country engaged in a massive stimulus when the tariff fight was announced and it was not the USA.

One country tried to hide its negotiations and it was not the USA.

One nation continued with mild inflation despite the naysayers saying surely there would be inflation from tariffs. Last CPI was 0. 2% and with an annual rate of 2. 4% just where the Fed says it wants the inflation rate.

One country has seen its stock market rise after the tariff fight began, and it is not China.

We tax China's goods at 30% and they tax ours at 10% and that according to the WSJ is a win for China. How much did China pay these mo fos?

To quote the WSJ, many of these bad Chinese practices have become worse under President Xi Jinping's strong-arm economic management. One tragedy of Mr. Trump's shoot-America-in-the-foot-first approach is that he's hurt his chances of rallying a united front of countries against Beijing's mercantilism. Where do these assholes come up with this stuff? The last I checked none of this was off the table.

By targeting allies with tariffs, Mr. Trump has eroded trust in America's economic and political reliability. Oh brother, you mean the "allies" who tax the shit out of our exports to them?

Beijing now also has the benefit of concrete experience to reassure the Communist Party that Washington would struggle to impose economic sanctions in a crisis such as a Chinese blockade or invasion of Taiwan. WTF is the WSJ talking about? If China invades Taiwan, it is Trump's fault? LOL.

Yep, Covid was Trump's not China's fault too. You cannot make this shit up.

But so far there's scant sign of the substantial trade deals that Mr. Trump promises. Yeah, six weeks in, there has been nothing accomplished? In comparison to whom? Biden? The Dems? Who saw record trade deficits and said they are fine?

But a 10% across-the-board tariff is still four times the average USA Tariff rate before Mr. Trump took office. And China has gone from 0% to 30%. That is what you call losing?

And what you and the lame brains from the WSJ do not get is that on packages less than $800, there are no tarfifs. As reported by the Fed, a 60% tariff rate adds at worst 2% to the CPI number.

Meanwhile, you Democratic douches are exposed as the frauds you are. You want to keep getting as many $ as possible or your hookers. You want rich Americans to pay more in taxes and you want China to pay nothing. You fools have no idea what it takes to balance a budget.

[SubCmdr]

I've said from the start that I am a beginner rider looking for the best starter bike for the money.

Google is weird here (Thailand). Six dealerships have is listed they sell CFMoto. None of them did. So, after learning I not going to actually buy the moto of my choice I have come back to: Royal Enfield - Guerrilla 450.

But it was hard for me to make a final decision. So I am also going to get a sport bike for the track and either a tourer or a scrambler and set them up with luggage for my long trips. I have zero interest in going off road here in Thailand (at least until I take my off-road riding course).

How does this relate to politics?

I find it interesting that the China Man is in the Dis-United States of America but is not here in Thailand. At least you can get good bourbon here. Individuals in the Dis-United States of America think they are the center of the world. They have the biggest market but there is an entire world out there. Everyday they are busting their asses to build lives like the once citizens of the Dis-United States of America take for granted. The underdog is counting on not being paid attention to until they start kicking ass and taking names. I read where someone says industries decline is part of the economic cycle. Maybe it is time that the Dis-United States of America recognizes it is on the decline. The Republican Morons are the cause. Time to either do something about it or goes softly in to the night.

Until Harley-Davidson designs and builds a reliable motorcycle for a beginner under 10 K USD, I will not be representing the Dis-United States of America nor voting for their products.

[EihTooms]

There Are Two Chinas, and America Must Understand Both.

The technological success that has captured the attention of many in the United States is one aspect of the Chinese economy. There's another, gloomy one.

Listen to this article 8:25 min Learn more.

Share full article.

404.

In an illustration, shadowy sharks gather under a speedboat tethered to a large ship whose red hull is painted as the Chinese flag. The speedboat carries four people, one of them holding a large Chinese flag.

Credit. Dongyan Xu.

Li Yuan.

By Li Yuan.

May 13,2025.

Updated 1:16 am ET.

Two Chinas inhabit the American imagination: One is a technology and manufacturing superpower poised to lead the world. The other is an economy that's on the verge of collapse.

Each reflects a real aspect of China.

One China let's call it hopeful China is defined by companies like the A. I. Start-up DeepSeek, the electric vehicle giant BYD and the tech powerhouse Huawei. All are innovation leaders.

Jensen Huang, the chief executive of the Silicon Valley chip giant Nvidia, said China was "not behind" the United States in artificial intelligence development. Quite a few pundits have declared that China would dominate the 21st century.

The other China gloomy China tells a different story: sluggish consumer spending, rising unemployment, a chronic housing crisis and a business community bracing for the impact of the trade war.

President Trump, as he tries to negotiate a resolution of a trade war, must reckon with both versions of America's arch geopolitical rival.

The stakes have never been higher to understand China. It's not enough to fear its successes, or take solace in its economic hardships. To know America's biggest rival requires seeing how the two Chinas are able to coexist.

"Americans have too many imagined notions about China," said Dong Jielin, a former Silicon Valley executive who recently moved back to San Francisco after spending 14 years in China teaching and researching the country's science and technology policies. "Some of them hope to solve American problems using Chinese methods, but that clearly won't work. They don't realize that China's solutions come with a lot of pain. ".

Image.

Two factory employees working on elevated vehicles, both partially built, on a vehicle assembly line.

The vehicle assembly lines of Geely Automobile's Zeekr Factory in Ningbo, China. Credit. Qilai Shen for The New York Times.

Just like the United States, China is a giant country full of disparities: coastal vs. Inland, north vs. South, urban vs. Rural, rich vs. Poor, state-owned vs. Private sector, Gen X vs. Gen Z. The ruling Communist Party itself is full of contradictions. It avows socialism, but recoils from giving its citizens a strong social safety net.

Chinese people, too, grapple with these contradictions.

Despite the trade war, the Chinese tech entrepreneurs and investors I talked to over the past few weeks were more upbeat than any time in the past three years. Their hope started with DeepSeek's breakthrough in January. Two venture capitalists told me that they planned to come out of a period of hibernation they started after Beijing's crackdown on the tech sector in 2021. Both said they were looking to invest in Chinese A. I. Applications and robotics.

Want to stay updated on what's happening in China? Sign up for Your Places: Global Update, and we'll send our latest coverage to your inbox.

But they are much less optimistic about the economy the gloomy China.

The 10 executives, investors and economists I interviewed said they believed that China's advances in tech would not be enough to pull the country out of its economic slump. Advanced manufacturing makes up about only 6 percent of China's output, much smaller than real estate, which contributes about 17 percent of gross domestic product even after a sharp slowdown.

When I asked them whether China could beat the United States in the trade war, nobody said yes. But they all agreed that China's pain threshold was much higher.

It's not hard to understand the anxiety felt by Americans frustrated with their country's struggles to build and manufacture. China has constructed more high-speed rail lines than the rest of the world, deployed more industrial robots per 10,000 manufacturing workers than any country except South Korea and Singapore and now leads globally in electric vehicles, solar panels, drones and several other advanced industries.

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A long field of solar panels, nine rows across and going far into the distance.

Solar panels in Ningbo, China. Credit. Gilles Sabri for The New York Times.

Many of China's most successful companies have gained resilience from the economic downturn and are better prepared for the bad days ahead. "They've been DOGE-ing for a long time," said Eric Wong, the founder of the New York hedge fund Stillpoint who visits China every quarter, referring to the Trump administration's cost-cutting effort known as the Department of Government Efficiency. "By comparison, the USA Has been living in excess for a long time. ".

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But as we marvel at China's so-called miracles, it is necessary to ask: At what cost? Not just financial, but human.

China's top-down innovation model, heavily reliant on government subsidies and investment, has proved to be both inefficient and wasteful. Much like the overbuilding in the real estate sector that triggered a crisis and erased much of Chinese household wealth, excessive industrial capacity has deepened imbalances in the economy and raised questions about the model's sustainability, particularly if broader conditions worsen.

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The electric vehicle industry shows the force of the two Chinas. In 2018, the country had nearly 500 E. V. Makers. By 2024, about 70 remained. Among the casualties was Singulato Motors, a start-up that raised $2. 3 billion from investors, including local governments in three provinces. Over eight years, the company failed to deliver a single car and filed for bankruptcy in 2023.

The Chinese government tolerates wasteful investment in its chosen initiatives, helping fuel overcapacity. But it is reluctant to make the kind of substantial investments in rural pensions and health insurance that would help lift consumption.

"Technological innovation alone cannot resolve China's structural economic imbalances or cyclical deflationary pressures," Robin Xing, the chief China economist at Morgan Stanley, said in a research note. "In fact," he wrote, "recent advances in technology may reinforce policymakers' confidence in the current path, increasing the risk of resource and capital misallocation. ".

The Chinese leadership's obsession with technological self-reliance and industrial capacity is not helping its biggest challenges: unemployment, weak consumption and a reliance on exports, not to mention the housing crisis.

Officially, China's urban unemployment rate stands at 5 percent, excluding jobless migrant workers. Youth unemployment is 17 percent. The real numbers are believed to be much higher. This summer alone, China's colleges will graduate more than 12 million new job seekers.

Mr. Trump was not wrong in saying factories are closing and people are losing their jobs in China.

In 2020 Li Keqiang, then the premier, said the foreign trade sector, directly or indirectly, accounted for the employment of 180 million Chinese. "A downturn in foreign trade will almost certainly hit the job market hard," he said at the onset of the pandemic. Tariffs could be much more devastating.

Beijing is playing down the effect of the trade war, but as negotiators held talks last weekend with their USA Counterparts, its impact was obvious. In April, Chinese factories experienced the sharpest monthly slowdown in more than a year while shipments to the United States plunged 21 percent from a year earlier.

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All of the economic fallout will be shouldered by people like a man I spoke to, with the surname Chen, a former university librarian in a megacity in southern China. He asked that I not use his full name and where he lived to shield his identity from the authorities.

Mr. Chen lives in the gloomy China. He stopped taking the vaunted high-speed trains because they cost five times as much as a bus. Flying is often cheaper, too.

He lost his job last year because the university, one of the top ones in the country, was facing a budget shortfall. Many state-run institutions have had to let people go because many local governments, even in the wealthiest cities, are deeply in debt.

Because he's in his late 30's, Mr. Chen is considered too old for most jobs. He and his wife had given up on buying a home. Now with the trade war, he expects that the economy will weaken further and that his job prospects will be dimmer.

"I've become even more cautious with spending," he said. "I weigh every penny. ".

GOD (AKA Donald J Trump) is FUCKING GREAT.

The China I am referring to is the one on which numbskull Trump imposed a 145% Tariff on everything along with grandly warning the Whole Wide World that any retribution or retaliation would be met with WORSE and HIGHER Trump Tariffs.

Followed by the Whole Wide World watching that China's retribution and retaliation right back onto America with even WORSE Tariffs.

Followed by the Whole Wide World watching Trump buckling, caving, grabbing his knees and taking it up the ass without KY-Jelly directly from Xi and THAT China until now he will only add a 10-30% Numbskull Trump Tariiff Additional Tax on the American Consumer onto everything they want and need to buy from China.

And this is after Xi and THAT China kicked Trump's ass up into his empty skull the first time around when Trump's failed Tariffs and Trade War with China resulted in THAT China getting damn near everything they wanted in exchange for giving virtually NOTHING to America while Trump plunged the USA Manufacturing and Agriculture sectors into a Recession so deep he had to issue emergency welfare checks just to keep them afloat.

Oh and all while American farmers lost global customers to THAT China, never to return to American farmers again.

That is the China I and the rest of the Whole Wide World have been watching ream Trump's by now raw and bleeding ass since at least 2017.

Sort out whichever one you want it to be in order to sleep better at night in the new Woke Pope's old neighborhood you live in.

[Sirioja]

Even Murdoch's Wall Street Journal had to admit Trump essentially bent over, grabbed his knees, unable to touch his calves much less his ankles, and took it up the ass without KY-Jelly from Xi and All Of China:

The Great Trump Tariff Rollback.
The President started a trade war with Adam Smith. He lost.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/u-s-chin...nping-a561d16b

You know, it might be marginally ok for him to jerk himself and everyone else off when he is buying or selling one of his failed golf resorts from or to a gaggle of drunks.

But all of this in, out, confusion, incoherence, blithering blather, feigned or genuine incompetence doesn't work when he's dealing with real world businesses, the national and global economy.

Now, your dangerous Trump is dealing with djihadhists, with new air force from Qatar, when Boeing are not able. And with Syria?

[RamDavidson84]

The best motorcycle is the one you swing your leg over and are riding at the moment.

Which one do you own? You need to define best. Why do you think those models or best? I suspect you don't ride. You have never mentioned it. Only your hate of all things EV. I actually bought a AJEV scooter for running errands around town.

I am a poor (insert color of your choice here) man trying to make it in a (insert color of your choice here) man's world. Cash rules everything around me since I don't have much. I am looking to get the most for my dollar. Right now that is looking like CF Moto. The China Man is fucking the market up. In a good way! More tech, more power, less cost. That is why this topic is political. I see mother fucks posting about China this and China that. But those same mother fucks have exactly zero experience with Chinese motorcycles. That's cool. If they want to speak from a base that shows they have no knowledge on the issue that is fine.

I would like a BMW but that is a pure vanity purchase to have the symbol on my tank. No real reason to spend the money. I would argue from my personal research that Chinese are making the best bikes in the world market today.

But you haven't ridden a Chinese Bike but you have an opinion on it. Exactly how did you form your opinion?

It is my choice how as a grown man I spend my hard earned dollars RamDavison. That is magnanimous of you to grant me your permission to spend my money how I choose. It's called the pursuit of happiness. I suggest you check the Declaration of Independence (your country of origin) for further details.

ROTFLMAO!

I have made the mistake of trying to save a few bucks by going with a newer unproven brand and usually I end up regretting it, so for me personally I wouldn't gamble on a chinese bike. They may be great as I hear the evs coming out China are as good as teslas. I personally wouldn't know. For my money, if I was going to get a budget bike, I would go with used low mileage Jap bike, honda suzuke or a kawi. I grew up on atvs and dirt bikes and them Japs make a fuckin great reliable product that delivers. Also a huge dealer net work, good resale value, easy to find a mechanic who can work on it.

I would gamble on a royal enfield as I have heard good things about them and they are a budget friendly do it all bike. Great if you will be taking it on rough old roads or dirt trails.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Even Murdoch's Wall Street Journal had to admit Trump essentially bent over, grabbed his knees, unable to touch his calves much less his ankles, and took it up the ass without KY-Jelly from Xi and All Of China:

The Great Trump Tariff Rollback.
The President started a trade war with Adam Smith. He lost.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/u-s-chin...nping-a561d16b

You know, it might be marginally ok for him to jerk himself and everyone else off when he is buying or selling one of his failed golf resorts from or to a gaggle of drunks.

But all of this in, out, confusion, incoherence, blithering blather, feigned or genuine incompetence doesn't work when he's dealing with real world businesses, the national and global economy.

There Are Two Chinas, and America Must Understand Both.

The technological success that has captured the attention of many in the United States is one aspect of the Chinese economy. There's another, gloomy one.

Listen to this article · 8:25 min Learn more.

Share full article.

404.

In an illustration, shadowy sharks gather under a speedboat tethered to a large ship whose red hull is painted as the Chinese flag. The speedboat carries four people, one of them holding a large Chinese flag.

Credit. Dongyan Xu.

Li Yuan.

By Li Yuan.

May 13,2025.

Updated 1:16 am ET.

Two Chinas inhabit the American imagination: One is a technology and manufacturing superpower poised to lead the world. The other is an economy that's on the verge of collapse.

Each reflects a real aspect of China.

One China — let's call it hopeful China — is defined by companies like the A. I. Start-up DeepSeek, the electric vehicle giant BYD and the tech powerhouse Huawei. All are innovation leaders.

Jensen Huang, the chief executive of the Silicon Valley chip giant Nvidia, said China was "not behind" the United States in artificial intelligence development. Quite a few pundits have declared that China would dominate the 21st century.

The other China — gloomy China — tells a different story: sluggish consumer spending, rising unemployment, a chronic housing crisis and a business community bracing for the impact of the trade war.

President Trump, as he tries to negotiate a resolution of a trade war, must reckon with both versions of America's arch geopolitical rival.

The stakes have never been higher to understand China. It's not enough to fear its successes, or take solace in its economic hardships. To know America's biggest rival requires seeing how the two Chinas are able to coexist.

"Americans have too many imagined notions about China," said Dong Jielin, a former Silicon Valley executive who recently moved back to San Francisco after spending 14 years in China teaching and researching the country's science and technology policies. "Some of them hope to solve American problems using Chinese methods, but that clearly won't work. They don't realize that China's solutions come with a lot of pain. ".

Image.

Two factory employees working on elevated vehicles, both partially built, on a vehicle assembly line.

The vehicle assembly lines of Geely Automobile's Zeekr Factory in Ningbo, China. Credit. Qilai Shen for The New York Times.

Just like the United States, China is a giant country full of disparities: coastal vs. Inland, north vs. South, urban vs. Rural, rich vs. Poor, state-owned vs. Private sector, Gen X vs. Gen Z. The ruling Communist Party itself is full of contradictions. It avows socialism, but recoils from giving its citizens a strong social safety net.

Chinese people, too, grapple with these contradictions.

Despite the trade war, the Chinese tech entrepreneurs and investors I talked to over the past few weeks were more upbeat than any time in the past three years. Their hope started with DeepSeek's breakthrough in January. Two venture capitalists told me that they planned to come out of a period of hibernation they started after Beijing's crackdown on the tech sector in 2021. Both said they were looking to invest in Chinese A. I. Applications and robotics.

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But they are much less optimistic about the economy — the gloomy China.

The 10 executives, investors and economists I interviewed said they believed that China's advances in tech would not be enough to pull the country out of its economic slump. Advanced manufacturing makes up about only 6 percent of China's output, much smaller than real estate, which contributes about 17 percent of gross domestic product even after a sharp slowdown.

When I asked them whether China could beat the United States in the trade war, nobody said yes. But they all agreed that China's pain threshold was much higher.

It's not hard to understand the anxiety felt by Americans frustrated with their country's struggles to build and manufacture. China has constructed more high-speed rail lines than the rest of the world, deployed more industrial robots per 10,000 manufacturing workers than any country except South Korea and Singapore and now leads globally in electric vehicles, solar panels, drones and several other advanced industries.

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A long field of solar panels, nine rows across and going far into the distance.

Solar panels in Ningbo, China. Credit. Gilles Sabrié for The New York Times.

Many of China's most successful companies have gained resilience from the economic downturn and are better prepared for the bad days ahead. "They've been DOGE-ing for a long time," said Eric Wong, the founder of the New York hedge fund Stillpoint who visits China every quarter, referring to the Trump administration's cost-cutting effort known as the Department of Government Efficiency. "By comparison, the USA Has been living in excess for a long time. ".

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But as we marvel at China's so-called miracles, it is necessary to ask: At what cost? Not just financial, but human.

China's top-down innovation model, heavily reliant on government subsidies and investment, has proved to be both inefficient and wasteful. Much like the overbuilding in the real estate sector that triggered a crisis and erased much of Chinese household wealth, excessive industrial capacity has deepened imbalances in the economy and raised questions about the model's sustainability, particularly if broader conditions worsen.

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The electric vehicle industry shows the force of the two Chinas. In 2018, the country had nearly 500 E. V. Makers. By 2024, about 70 remained. Among the casualties was Singulato Motors, a start-up that raised $2. 3 billion from investors, including local governments in three provinces. Over eight years, the company failed to deliver a single car and filed for bankruptcy in 2023.

The Chinese government tolerates wasteful investment in its chosen initiatives, helping fuel overcapacity. But it is reluctant to make the kind of substantial investments in rural pensions and health insurance that would help lift consumption.

"Technological innovation alone cannot resolve China's structural economic imbalances or cyclical deflationary pressures," Robin Xing, the chief China economist at Morgan Stanley, said in a research note. "In fact," he wrote, "recent advances in technology may reinforce policymakers' confidence in the current path, increasing the risk of resource and capital misallocation. ".

The Chinese leadership's obsession with technological self-reliance and industrial capacity is not helping its biggest challenges: unemployment, weak consumption and a reliance on exports, not to mention the housing crisis.

Officially, China's urban unemployment rate stands at 5 percent, excluding jobless migrant workers. Youth unemployment is 17 percent. The real numbers are believed to be much higher. This summer alone, China's colleges will graduate more than 12 million new job seekers.

Mr. Trump was not wrong in saying factories are closing and people are losing their jobs in China.

In 2020 Li Keqiang, then the premier, said the foreign trade sector, directly or indirectly, accounted for the employment of 180 million Chinese. "A downturn in foreign trade will almost certainly hit the job market hard," he said at the onset of the pandemic. Tariffs could be much more devastating.

Beijing is playing down the effect of the trade war, but as negotiators held talks last weekend with their USA Counterparts, its impact was obvious. In April, Chinese factories experienced the sharpest monthly slowdown in more than a year while shipments to the United States plunged 21 percent from a year earlier.

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All of the economic fallout will be shouldered by people like a man I spoke to, with the surname Chen, a former university librarian in a megacity in southern China. He asked that I not use his full name and where he lived to shield his identity from the authorities.

Mr. Chen lives in the gloomy China. He stopped taking the vaunted high-speed trains because they cost five times as much as a bus. Flying is often cheaper, too.

He lost his job last year because the university, one of the top ones in the country, was facing a budget shortfall. Many state-run institutions have had to let people go because many local governments, even in the wealthiest cities, are deeply in debt.

Because he's in his late 30's, Mr. Chen is considered too old for most jobs. He and his wife had given up on buying a home. Now with the trade war, he expects that the economy will weaken further and that his job prospects will be dimmer.

"I've become even more cautious with spending," he said. "I weigh every penny. ".

GOD (AKA Donald J Trump) is FUCKING GREAT.

[EihTooms]

Almost no more tax for Chinese products. Trump is really a dangerous, ridiculous clown. Bullshiting with no balls. Many Chinese toys are dangerous for children.

Even Murdoch's Wall Street Journal had to admit Trump essentially bent over, grabbed his knees, unable to touch his calves much less his ankles, and took it up the ass without KY-Jelly from Xi and All Of China:

The Great Trump Tariff Rollback.
The President started a trade war with Adam Smith. He lost.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/u-s-chin...nping-a561d16b

You know, it might be marginally ok for him to jerk himself and everyone else off when he is buying or selling one of his failed golf resorts from or to a gaggle of drunks.

But all of this in, out, confusion, incoherence, blithering blather, feigned or genuine incompetence doesn't work when he's dealing with real world businesses, the national and global economy.

[EihTooms]

Nah, Bill Maher just tells like it is and calls people out on their bullshit. If anything I would say for the longest time he leaned strong left, then left went to extreme for even him.

The right loves him because he lies about the Dems every week on his shows, repeats the most ridiculous MAGA-fabricated nonsense about them. I would say MAGAs should really love him considering the margin of victory for Trump in the only three swing states that mattered was so razor-thin it very likely could have hinged on just those MAGA lies Bill Maher repeated for them to his audience every week for the past two years.

Aside from the debunked lies he continued to repeat about the Dems, his criticism of what he objects to with Trump and the Repubs is emotionally detached, amused, delivered in a way so it would not be taken too seriously vs the criticism he has for the Dems, mostly lies, delivered with venom and disgust.

He has been practically 100% MAGA for a couple of years.

[EihTooms]

Your lame attempts to gaslight ISG are absurdly weak, give it up you're just wasting your electricity.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/202...-pakistan-war/

India rejects Trump's claim his trade concessions de-escalated India-Pakistan tensions.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-rej...BaEvSqCX5GQcgc

NEW DELHI (AP) The Indian government on Tuesday rejected U.S. President Donald Trumps claim that he helped broker a ceasefire between India and Pakistan in exchange for trade concessions.
..........
New Delhi also rejected Trump's offer for mediation on Tuesday.

We have a longstanding national position that any issues related to the federally controlled union territory of Jammu and Kashmir must be addressed by India and Pakistan bilaterally. There has been no change to the stated policy, Jaiswal said.

Wringing your hands and begging, "Come on you guys, just stop it" rarely wins anyone a Nobel Peace Prize.

Maybe Trump can buy one by lowering his ilegally-enacted tariffs on Norway.