Hanoi

[Co Van My]

Surfer is just repeating what he was told by his ho's and he doesn't know craps.........

JT,

With all due respect to your point of view, I think Surfer has observed more than you think. I don’t think his observations are very far off the mark, and not because of what my ho’s have told me.

Here’s why: I am married to a Viet kieu (vuot bien early 80s), and literally most of my friends and every day associates are VK. We talk a lot about traveling in Vietnam (I’ve been there many times), and they generally agree that it is very hard to hide the foreign influences that have crept into their daily lives: clothes, mannerisms, makeup, accents, and on and on. My friends are not flashy people. They hold very average jobs, few have college degrees, and they certainly don’t make an issue out of their “emigrant” status. Quite the opposite: they would like very much to go completely unnoticed, but they usually can’t. That doesn’t mean that every VK is quickly discovered, but I think it’s a fair generalization.

Of course a VK who has gone back to Vietnam for extended periods can revert. With a locally purchased clothes, and a renewed knowledge of local slang, customs, and geography, I can believe that someone like you might pass as a local. In a sense, you have become a local again.

I would like to make another generalization, and I hope you won’t take undue offense. One of the prevailing traits of my Vietnamese friends, including the people I meet in Vietnam, is the near impossibility of allowing for different opinions. They tend to believe they have access to absolute truth on almost any subject, and they have very little respect for any ideas that don’t match their own beliefs. I have observed this for more than 30 years, and it is no less true today than in was then.

As someone else has said, I like to learn by experience: other people’s experience whenever possible..

I agree with Surfer that Vietnam is a relatively safe country, although it is not nearly as safe as it was in the early 90s. Drugs, the black market, new knowledge about the wealth of the politicians and foreigners has led to the jealous, “where’s mine” syndrome, and crime often follows that. Foreigners can get rolled, beaten and robbed, but I would rather walk down a Saigon street at 2 a.m. than those of most American cities, or European, for that matter.

Sure there are scams, and not just in the bargirl trade. I’ve tried doing business there, and the scams run throughout the society, from cyclo drivers to the Hanoi ministries. It’s endemic, but that doesn’t mean you can’t ever forge trustworthy relationships, again from the cylco drivers to the ministers. I have some trusted friends at both ends of the spectrum.

One of the good things about forums like this is that one can read different points of view and make up his own mind about things. I enjoy reading what you have to say, but there are certainly other plausible points of view.

What I find offensive, however, is the manner in which you sometimes choose to express yourself. We're all equals here in this anonymous world of chat, and none of us is blessed with knowing absolute truth. Argue and disagree, but try to avoid the personal and demeaning attacks. I think you probably would like to be seen as above that.

[Silly Puppy]

like you really know.

Surfer is just repeating what he was told by his ho's and he doesn't know craps about how a Vietkieu can blend in among the locals. It is not hard, as a matter of fact, if you know the language, don't act like Sufer assumes you would, speak some Viet slangs, and don't mix English with Vietnamese. Always pretend like you are from another regions. For example, if you go to the South say you are from Nha Trang. If you go to the North say you are from Saigon. If you hang around with the locals too long they may suspect something but these tricks will give you time, what you want, and you just disappear before they have time to plan a trick on you.

I am warning people to play safe and don't be sorry later. If you are an adventurous type of guy, behave a little and play safe then you are ok. I was in Hue for a few days, made a mistake by getting on a cyclo at 10PM. The guy KNEW I was a tourist from Danang (why I pretended to be from Danang is a long story) and tried to take me to a deserted area. Hue is relatively a much safer place than Hanoi and crimes are rarely heard of but it doesn't mean crime doesn't exist.

Couple xe-om guys (motobike drivers) in Danang told me stories about backpacking tourists got robbed. These backpacking guys are more adventurous than other tourists and normally not as wealthy. So they 'd try to get cheap girls by going with cyclo or xe-om drivers to cheap KTV's or remote outskirt areas. They refused to pay an inflated bill and got beaten up.

Play within your boundary then you are ok. Trust your instincts and do not be too adventurous. Don't tell the cyclo/xe-om guys where your hotel is if you travel with your wife/family and want to try a quicky (this is for Vietkieu, the foreigners are luckier than Vietkieu this way because scammers' lack of English hinder them from extorting money from the foreigners. But not so long before they find out how.) In a country where average income is around $450 a year and Surfer has guts to say it is safer than in the US!

While the VN government are working hard to get crimes down they are also good in sensorship which means the true crimes are not publicized so even Surfer's friends have no clues. Surfer's friends are making him feel too dangerously safe and he one day WILL pay for such ignorance.

[Surfer]

Even BEFORE you open your mouth, they KNOW. They know people from Central or Southern VN too. Granted understanding the language helps reduce the risk SOMEWHAT, but I am told VK are considered particularly good targets for robbery because they are ALL showing off how wealthy they have become overseas (unlike backpackers who rarely wear jewelry or expensive watches and do not carry wads of cash to impress local girls the way the VKs do).

Violent crime against foreigners is NOT common, contrary to what JT would have you believe, because the police come down PARTICULARLY hard on them as they REALLY want to encourage tourism. For example, Japanese no longer need visas and it may be expended to other nationalities next year.

VN has MANY summary executions (the exact number is a state secret) and NOBODY screws around with the police. NOBODY. And the word is out not to attack foreigners (overcharge them yes, but use violence No).

I think the risk of being victimized by violent crime is MUCH less in VN than in the US so don't let JT's attempts to scare you away succeed. YES fleecing the foreigner is a national pasttime, but it is VERY rarely accompanied by violence by all accounts I hear (and I have two friends who have lived here for several years).

I DO agree that anything that sounds too good to be true probably is.

[Surfer]

Even BEFORE you open your mouth, they KNOW. They know people from Central or Southern VN too. Granted understanding the language helps reduce the risk SOMEWHAT, but I am told VK are considered particularly good targets for robbery because they are ALL showing off how wealthy they have become overseas (unlike backpackers who rarely wear jewelry or expensive watches and do not carry wads of cash to impress local girls the way the VKs do).

Violent crime against foreigners is NOT common, contrary to what JT would have you believe, because the police come down PARTICULARLY hard on them as they REALLY want to encourage tourism. For example, Japanese no longer need visas and it may be expended to other nationalities next year.

VN has MANY summary executions (the exact number is a state secret) and NOBODY screws around with the police. NOBODY. And the word is out not to attack foreigners (overcharge them yes, but use violence No).

I think the risk of being victimized by violent crime is MUCH less in VN than in the US so don't let JT's attempts to scare you away succeed. YES fleecing the foreigner is a national pasttime, but it is VERY rarely accompanied by violence by all accounts I hear (and I have two friends who have lived here for several years).

I DO agree that anything that sounds too good to be true probably is.

[Silly Puppy]

then it is a scam. Do not listen to anyone (pimp) who lures you with craps such as cheap price + beautiful girl, they just don't go together. Do not go with motobike girls because the chance to get rip-off is high. Always bring girls back to your hotel OR only go with someone you know well and who knows the area very well. I myself am very confident in my knowing of the country, act like a local and in fact was in trouble couple times. I know some foreigners (backpack tourists) got robbed and beaten up so badly because they refused to give the robbers money. That said ... please play safe. VN is a jungle and you may venture with extreme caution.

[Kuber]

There used to be a massage place just across hilton. You can get a decent massage ($6) and hand job and roaming for $15. I wonder if it is still there.

I took a stroll from the Hilton down to the lake a few blocks away. On the way back, I had 3 or 4 motobike girls either slow down or stop next to me. Trouble was, being winter now, they were all bundled up as if the snow was coming, so it was impossible to tell how they looked.

I'm not even sure what the deal is in terms of price or even where to go. I dont think I'd want to drag one of them into the Hilton.[/QUOTE]

[Asia Rocks]

Brandon,
The motobike girls will want to take you to mini-hotel which is a scam waiting to happen. I've been scammed twice, although able to reverse one with threat of violence which would actually have been a bigger problem than losing the money. You just don't want to go there.
Cheers, AR

I took a stroll from the Hilton down to the lake a few blocks away. On the way back, I had 3 or 4 motobike girls either slow down or stop next to me. Trouble was, being winter now, they were all bundled up as if the snow was coming, so it was impossible to tell how they looked.
I'm not even sure what the deal is in terms of price or even where to go. I dont think I'd want to drag one of them into the Hilton.

[Surfer]

the Central region was unbelievably cold and wet. Hanoi has been in the mid to high 60s which is pretty comfortable. I found a VERY GFE freelancer through a taxi driver but she speaks ZERO English (and he VERY little). But it turnmed out great and as soon as she saw the camera she stripped down and started posing suggestively. What a welcome change from times when you have to battle to get a risque foto (plus pay extra). Given that VN is a totalitarian police state, I will not post pictures showing faces on this board. I will post some with faces obscurred, however, upon my return.

New Century disco is THE hotspot, but you bette have a high tolerance for 3 digit decibel levels and second hand smoke in concentrations that boggle the mind. Plus VERY unfriendly bouncers and tremendous crowds of people bumping into you all the time. I HATED it, but there ae some lookers there for the taking to be sure. Free lockers outside are a nice touch for storing your fannypack or whatever. Beware fleecing by taxi drivers on the way home late at night (seems to close at 1am despite local rule requiring miodnight closure).

[Silly Puppy]

freebie's are pieces of cake. Many guys, especially Caucasian, just use their charm and lure these young beautiful Viet girls into their fishnet arms. Keep hoping if you have TIME. If you don't then your chance is 1/1mil. How much time do you have?

[Brandon88]

I took a stroll from the Hilton down to the lake a few blocks away. On the way back, I had 3 or 4 motobike girls either slow down or stop next to me. Trouble was, being winter now, they were all bundled up as if the snow was coming, so it was impossible to tell how they looked.
I'm not even sure what the deal is in terms of price or even where to go. I dont think I'd want to drag one of them into the Hilton.

[Soccer Mate]

Hello Friends,

I am supposed to go to Hanoi and Hochimin for work next month. which place is better in terms of getting some good action? As I could plan my weekend around the place I go last. Also hows the pick up/ freebie scene in town? Havent read much about internet pick up in Vietnam!

Thanks all,

Soccer

[Surfer]

The Vietkieu girls in California are, on average, WAY better looking than those here in the country who are really quite underwhelming in apearance. I DEFINITELY think LOS, Indonesia and the PI all offer better looking women both in the water trades and among civilians. Quite a surprise I must admit. as I expected much better.

[Asia Rocks]

Club Q at Daewoo Hotel, Boss at Fortuna Hotel, Club at Hanoi Hotel (can't remember name), New Century Club, 10B Trang Thi St. Happy hunting.

Thanks AR. Any particular clubs come to mind?

[Brandon88]

Easier to get into the new Hanoi Hilton than out of the old one. Careful of the MB girls. You can hook up with a girl at one of the clubs and take her back to the hotel or have her visit you at the hotel, but easier at 10:00 than 12:00.
Cheers, AR

Thanks AR. Any particular clubs come to mind?

[Co Van My]

but the Southerners are SO much better looking than the Northerners...

It's certainly a matter of opion. I tend to lke the southern girls more myself, but many of the Viet kieu I know sing the praises of the fair-skinned northerners.

The last time I was in Halong, there were many very pretty girls in the karaoke places, and also in the hotel massage operations. Don't know about availability on Cat Ba.

Personally, I would feel very encumbered by bringing a girl up from the south. To much baggage, if you will. A local girl would be easier to divorce.