Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206397]I still try to get the point.

Does it mean, that girls have to take low prices for their services because the costs of living in a specific country is low?

I think a girl takes as much as possible, as anybody would do, who sells services / work to customers / employers. So. Where the hell is the point? Why should a girl go for 1500 THB for all night if the next customer is willing to pay 2500 THB?

The market makes the price. And if a girl offers special qualities / look / services she will be able to get a higher price. If she is not able to do so, though she tries. Then she will sooner or later adjust her prices or file for chapter 11.

It is that easy.

Giotto.

[url]http://www.livingstones.co.th[/url]

[b]Clarification[/b]: In a report below I wrote that prices have not changed much in the past 12 years. I referred to prices for girls services. Coffee prices (and others) have skyrocketed![/QUOTE]I agree with you, on all points except for part of the last one. I think that 12 years ago, many girls were happy to get 1K for fucking, even less, but not so many now. The price of the supermarket trolley of goods has gone up a lot, so they should get paid more too.

Bar girls don't want to go for 1K, when they know their friend can pull much higher, even if they are a bit short of customers. Strangely, bar girls do not seem to negotiate a price with me. They just trust I will pay them adequately / fairly and I get no complaints. They are probably expert at reading a guy's makeup when it comes to the stingy / generous genes. They may know that they can actually get a better tip by not negotiating with the right type of customers.

I remember about 18-20 years ago getting a Soi Cowboy girl for the night (very long time) for 400 Baht (but no stunner). I think prices must have gone up significantly since then. Actually was very hard to get rid of her. She never wanted to leave, and would return to my low class Hotel uninvited. These days I want a higher standard Hotel, higher standard girl, and higher standard coffee, and must pay accordingly.

12 years ago, was probably hard to find a good coffee. Many Black Canyon places with staff who did not know anything. 20 years ago, good coffee didn't seem to exist (or I certainly didn't know where to go). The "fresh" milk was sweetened condensed milk from a can (and I don't take sugar). Yuck.

[QUOTE=Oldian;1206500]You are 100% right, it is the market that makes the price. Which is precisely why a girl who normally goes for 2, 500 will drop to 1, 500 when there are no customers, or when it is late, or when business is slow. What most guys don't get is that there are thousands and thousands of girls, and even in high season, still a strong buyers market. If a vendor offers a newbie a t-shirt on Sukhumvit for 300 baht and he buys it, he will be selling that t-shirt at that price or higher for the rest of the week. If the following buyers get it for 200, he will come down. What most don't get is that the same shirt can be had at Pratunam for 100.[/QUOTE]Exactly correct and its why price discussion is very much needed.

I can get the same shirt sold on Sukhumvit at 200 or 400 baht at Pratunam for 100 baht.

I can get the same DVD sold on Sukhumvit at 150 baht at Panthip for 70 baht.

I see in the Bangkok Post today that they are calling for vendors who put prices up during the floods to be jailed. This is a free market, and the same applies to girls. If they can get away with selling the same thing for more, they will of course.

If everyone says no, they will drop their price.

Why men are paying 4000 baht overnight with girls I do not know. At the very most, if she is really a hottie and you cannot resist, then its 3000 baht over night. There is no girl in Bangkok worth more than that, they only have a pussy and it will only make you cum, it does not shoot out gold bars.

Short time should be in the 1000 baht to 1500 baht range.

Long time should be 2000 baht (with the exception for the hottie you cannot resist, but only after she refuses to take 2000 or 2500 baht).

If all the stupid people stopped paying too much for things, the prices on Sukhumvit for shirts and DVD's and watches would be the same as other places in Bangkok.

If all the stupid people stopped paying too much for short time and long time, all the girls would charge 1. 5K short time and 2K long time with many charging less.

The famous saying is :

A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED.

And the saying will ring true forever whilst people are stupid enough to overpay.

Bar owners will come on here and defend prices for girls, because they do not pay it and if their girls are getting more money its easier to keep girls at their bar working for them, they will also make snide comments about cheaper places because they do not want you paying less, they want you paying their prices for their girls and their prices for their beers.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206516]I completely disagree with this approach of analysis.

There are Mercedes girls and Chevrolet girls out there. And Honda girls who believe they are Ferrari girls (my taste, my POV) , but for that specific customer who pays the Ferrari price it is obviously a Ferrari girl (his taste, his POV). There is no general market price for all girls.[/QUOTE]Some comments, not to Giotto so much, just general.
Cars are a reasonable analogy, since price of a girl depends on age, looks, condition, sales negotiating skill, taste of the customer, quick sale or bargain hunt, etc.

Of course, analogies are not useful to prove anything at all. Same but different.

Yes absolutely, "There is no general market price for all girls".

So getting a girl, is not at all like getting someone to clean your house.

However, if guys a want a blow job and don't care what the girl looks like, can get a standard price at a Blowjob joint with an old hag. Girls that value themselves higher just won't work there.

At soapies, you have girls on several different price levels, depending on what price they want to set for themselves, age, had a baby or not, figure good, etc. Some girls set a much higher price than what they are actually worth and some set a lower price than what they are worth. So obviously the over priced ones don't get much repeat business.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1206496].

You are making my point. It is the idiot customer that pays too much.[/QUOTE]There is no such thing as "idiot customers" (some exceptions are confirming the rule due to a lack of brain cells).

There are some rookies out there who just learn the game, and they are sometimes ripped off. That's not a girls problem, that happens in taxis, restaurants, street shops, girly / hostess bars. Everywhere. The Thai life philosophy rules:

[b]Make money as easy as possible, all Farang are walking ATM machines. [/b]

If a customer finds out that he overpaid at the beginning of his Thailand experience he will experience something what the marketing science would call "cognitive dissonance". Others get the same service from the same girl cheaper - he will then lower his offer once he tries again to go for a deal with the same girl, or he will not demand her service any more. Still - prices for other girls can be different, higher or lower!

And - before he agreed on a higher price. It was obviously worth it for him. If he afterwards had a good experience and the girl earns a bit more money and is happy there are NO LOSERS in this game. Where the hell is the problem then?

I remember the same discussion on the Cambodian board. The prices were low that time (USD 10 ST, USD 20 LT, if I remember correctly). Members were virtually slammed for overpaying. I jumped in there and asked where I can find 30 USD girls in Phnom Penh - as a kind of suicide attack. I then was massacred ...

I can only encourage everybody to pay what he thinks is OK for him to pay, and to tip of the experience was great. Not to tip if the experience was lousy. Complete normal behavior as we would do it for any purchase of any service in our home countries. There is no such thing as overpaying if the experience is afterwards considered to be worth it - by the partners of the specific transaction.

The statement "a Thai does not respect you if you overpay" - nonsense. A Thai respects you or not - based on your behavior, clothing, cleanliness, smell etc. etc. . If you have a great experience, and you show your appreciation with paying a higher price, this will be appreciated and will not have a negative impact on the respect the girl has for you. She even might like and respect you more. And she will then prefer you to others when you decide to call for her services again. Create a win-win situation like this, instead of fighting the cheap-charlie battle and then having a good experience once a while. You lose time. This "best experience for the lowest price"-game is something for low-income expats living here (like me :) ).


Giotto
[url]http://www.livingstones.co.th[/url]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1206519]I agree with you, on all points except for part of the last one. I think that 12 years ago, many girls were happy to get 1K for fucking, even less, but not so many now. The price of the supermarket trolley of goods has gone up a lot, so they should get paid more too.[/QUOTE]Syzygies,

12 years ago I was a rookie :) - may be I overpaid?


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206526]There is no such thing as "idiot customers" (some exceptions are confirming the rule due to a lack of brain cells).

There are some rookies out there who just learn the game, and they are sometimes ripped off. That's not a girls problem, that happens in taxis, restaurants, street shops, girly / hostess bars. Everywhere. The Thai life philosophy rules:

[b]Make money as easy as possible, all Farang are walking ATM machines. [/b]

If a customer finds out that he overpaid at the beginning of his Thailand experience he will experience something what the marketing science would call "cognitive dissonance". Others get the same service from the same girl cheaper. He will then lower his offer once he tries again to go for a deal with the same girl, or he will not demand her service any more. Still. Prices for other girls can be different, higher or lower!

And. Before he agreed on a higher price. It was obviously worth it for him. If he afterwards had a good experience and the girl earns a bit more money and is happy there are NO LOSERS in this game. Where the hell is the problem then?

I remember the same discussion on the Cambodian board. The prices were low that time (USD 10 ST, USD 20 LT, if I remember correctly). Members were virtually slammed for overpaying. I jumped in there and asked where I can find 30 USD girls in Phnom Penh. As a kind of suicide attack. I then was massacred.

I can only encourage everybody to pay what he thinks is OK for him to pay, and to tip of the experience was great. Not to tip if the experience was lousy. Complete normal behavior as we would do it for any purchase of any service in our home countries. There is no such thing as overpaying if the experience is afterwards considered to be worth it. By the partners of the specific transaction.

The statement "a Thai does not respect you if you overpay". Nonsense. A Thai respects you or not. Based on your behavior, clothing, cleanliness, smell etc. Etc. If you have a great experience, and you show your appreciation with paying a higher price, this will be appreciated and will not have a negative impact on the respect the girl has for you. She even might like and respect you more. And she will then prefer you to others when you decide to call for her services again. Create a win-win situation like this, instead of fighting the cheap-charlie battle and then having a good experience once a while. You lose time. This "best experience for the lowest price"-game is something for low-income expats living here (like me.).

Giotto.

[url]http://www.livingstones.co.th[/url][/QUOTE]Giotto,

I think there are far more "rookies" as you call them out there than there have every been. They get younger and younger as well. I always tip for good service and have never been a bargain hunter, but I do expect great service and that is what I see less of these days except at oilies.

I would still hold onto the fact that the overpaying Farang is seen as a fool by many of the girls. Some guys stay rookies for ever. Some learn the game before they come here. Some have the wisdom to listen to those of us who have lived here for a long time.

Getting into a bidding war over a gal is as silly as getting into a fight over on here. There are plenty, and they seem to always be making more. .

I think respect comes in by the way you treat them, not how much you pay. If you can speak the language and can handle yourself well are two aspects. Guys who set themselves up as walking ATMs will always be just that.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206516]I completely disagree with this approach of analysis.

There are Mercedes girls and Chevrolet girls out there. And Honda girls who believe they are Ferrari girls (my taste, my POV) , but for that specific customer who pays the Ferrari price it is obviously a Ferrari girl (his taste, his POV). There is no general market price for all girls.

This ongoing discussion about overpaying is just nonsense. There are girls working out there getting 4k. 5k. 6k or more for all night. Easily. They have either a specific customer group, that is willing to pay this amount, they might look very good or be aware of an extraordinary service level they provide. Some have simply have a different strategy (better once or twice a week for real money than 10 times for nothing). Whatever their price-determining reason is. They obviously survive and find customers that fit into their self-marketing strategy. The individual market for each girl will regulate the price automatically.

I disagree again.

Bar fine is up in the Gogo's, ok. I don't consider this to be part of the girls price, it's more revenue for the bar. The prices in Gogo's are slightly higher today than they were years ago, but you can usually still find girls for 1500 ST / 2500 LT. Years ago all night was 2000 already, and you found some exceptions going for 1000 ST. Then most likely the demand for this girl was not very high.

Freelancers. The prices in Beergarden Soi 7 are still low (don't forget the full-body condom) , and in Spasso still high. I don't see any major price increases. Streetwalkers on Sukhumvit are now available for 1000 (later in the night the prices are even dropping).

If I look at the development in Singapore the average girls prices in OT are still lower today than they were before the Asian crisis 1997/1998. Remember the Brannigans / Top 10 girls that easily got SGD 400 for all night.

Giotto.

[url]http://www.livingstones.co.th[/url][/QUOTE]Giotto,

Prices in 2000 were 1k short and 1. 5k long in Nana and Cowboy. I never recall even one discussion about price then and I was a GoGo fanatic at that time. Seems about double to me now with most girls asking 2k short.

Freelancers are the same. Most gals at the BG want 1. 5 with many asking 2k these days, and Thermae, don't get me started. 2k standard with 1k being the standard before.

Tis amazing that prices in Sing are far less than they were in 2000, but it is true.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206526]You lose time. This "best experience for the lowest price"-game is something for low-income expats living here (like me.).

Giotto.

[url]http://www.livingstones.co.th[/url][/QUOTE]This is the critical point for some of us. My playing up time is very very limited. I don't have time to research and to always hunt for the best price / performance ratio. I may have just a 2-3 hour window to play up. I want a girl that looks as good or better than my GF (who is well above average) , and is more skilled, just for the fantasy experience, and because I'm a sex maniac / addict. Aren't we paying to escape from the real world for a short time? I wouldn't waste my time on girls with very average looks no matter how cheap they are going. I am sometimes willing to accept only moderately good looks if the service is guaranteed exceptional (e.g. Mango, but I still like Cat, the pretty one).

Maybe the forum should split into two, the bargain hunter cheap charlies, and the playboy money wasters/market spoilers.
The "price is everything" group and the "price is secondary" group. These two groups will never be on the same wavelength at all.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1206535]Giotto,

Prices in 2000 were 1k short and 1. 5k long in Nana and Cowboy. I never recall even one discussion about price then and I was a GoGo fanatic at that time. Seems about double to me now with most girls asking 2k short.

Freelancers are the same. Most gals at the BG want 1. 5 with many asking 2k these days, and Thermae, don't get me started. 2k standard with 1k being the standard before.[/QUOTE]Goatscrot,

We had falling prices after the Asian Financial Crisis hit Thailand, some deep dips here and then. And Thermae is a completely different story today than it was 2000 and before. That time it was a late night spot for left-overs. And you made the cheap deals right there. Today Thermae is targeting Asian / Japanese customers.

Even if we consider that some freelancer / Gogo girl prices are 50 % up since 1998 (a fact that I cannot confirm) then it does not seam to be too unusual to me. Normal price development, inflation. If we then look at the soapy prices (oilies came up later) , the real income of those girls obviously fell. So - what are we talking about?

Giotto

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1206537] (snip). Maybe the forum should split into two, the bargain hunter cheap charlies, and the playboy money wasters / market spoilers.

The "price is everything" group and the "price is secondary" group. These two groups will never be on the same wavelength at all.[/QUOTE]May I also suggest:

Old guys (29+) , young guys, & really old guys (49+)

Bald guys & hairy guys.

Slim guys & fat guys.

Guys who can eat spicy & guys who cannot eat spicy.

Large dicks (20cm+) & small dicks.

Sadists & masochists.

Tall guys & short guys.

People of color & people who are color blind.

Butt fcukers & tight asses

;)

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1206537]This is the critical point for some of us. My playing up time is very very limited. I don't have time to research and to always hunt for the best price / performance ratio. I may have just a 2-3 hour window to play up. I want a girl that looks as good or better than my GF (who is well above average) , and is more skilled, just for the fantasy experience, and because I'm a sex maniac / addict. Aren't we paying to escape from the real world for a short time? I wouldn't waste my time on girls with very average looks no matter how cheap they are going. I am sometimes willing to accept only moderately good looks if the service is guaranteed exceptional (e. G. Mango, but I still like Cat, the pretty one).

Maybe the forum should split into two, the bargain hunter cheap charlies, and the playboy money wasters / market spoilers.

The "price is everything" group and the "price is secondary" group. These two groups will never be on the same wavelength at all.[/QUOTE]For me there has to be value for money and that is why I go to oilies. I want performance and ok looks. I want a gal who is polite as well, and one that is "accomodating." Paying 2. 1k for an hour and a half of that is a bargain in my book. Contrast that with GoGo girls, most of whom want to get out asap and have more "rules" and freelancers who want 1. 5 or 2k (still have to pay for a ST room) and with whom the performance is a gamble as well. When GoGo gals and freelancers were 1k (and 1k was 25 USD) , I did not really care about performance, because if it was a dud you spent less than 50 USD total. Now at over double that for a GoGo gal, a dud is a pretty expensive failure.

Price is not everything, but price / performance is. We are purchasing a service and I for one, expect it to be good. When I get my car serviced I expect them to do a good thorough job, I expect the same from my hookers.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1206543]Goatscrot,

We had falling prices after the Asian Financial Crisis hit Thailand, some deep dips here and then. And Thermae is a completely different story today than it was 2000 and before. That time it was a late night spot for left-overs. And you made the cheap deals right there. Today Thermae is targeting Asian / Japanese customers.

Even if we consider that some freelancer / Gogo girl prices are 50 % up since 1998 (a fact that I cannot confirm) then it does not seam to be too unusual to me. Normal price development, inflation. If we then look at the soapy prices (oilies came up later) , the real income of those girls obviously fell. So. What are we talking about?

Giotto[/QUOTE]Giotto,

GoGo prices are up 100% in 10 yrs. Gals is soapies are still making a lot of money compared to the local economy. It is a good career, albeit a potentially short one.

Yes, Thermae has changed. It belongs to the Japanese and East Asian man, the completion of that takeover happened soon after the closure of the Siam Hotel on P-Buri Road.

Also the other factor with the freelancer crowd is dating sites. The smart gals who know how to write a bit of English can set up dates from home and don't have to sit in the hot stinky Beergarden. If they go out it is by choice and usually to late night discos. It really does not effect the Thermae crowd as even the girls who speak a bit of the Yipun don't write it, so Thermae is the best option to meet Japanese guys.

Have had a nice conversation or two with a Japanese guy in Thermae. They all ask,"Why does white man like girls who look like monkeys?".

And many do. Funny the longer I am here the more I like white skinned Chinesey gals!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1206573] (snip). Have had a nice conversation or two with a Japanese guy in Thermae. They all ask,"Why does white man like girls who look like monkeys?".

And many do. Funny the longer I am here the more I like white skinned Chinesey gals![/QUOTE]A few more categorical ways to make the ISG Forum more usable for the discerning monger:

Guys that like girls that look like monkeys & guys that like girls that look like porcelain dolls.

Go-go girls that put out & go-go girls that walk out.

Girls with computer skills & girls with old Nokias.

Indians from Mumbai & Indians from Bangalore.

Ugly Americans & Stupid Americans.

Etc, etc. ;) :)

My opinion is that according to several parameters: town, type of place (gogo, disco, etc.) place (cm2, Bangkok beat, etc.) , girls beauty (as appreciated by most customers of the specific place concerned, there is a reference price. It can be altered by negotiation (a bit lower) and tips (a bit higher). In some places, the reference price may eventally be overrated (this is what I think of cm2, for example) , or underrated for the girl's qualit.

Experienced people know this reference price. As for me, when I go to Bangkok or Pattaya, I know by experience (and others' experience) how much I should pay to get my offer not refused while not overpaying.

The problem is that some members are not experienced and they read this forum to learn this reference price, they are not interested in knowing how much people overpay. This is why I sometimes react when people overpay.

[QUOTE=Fon Tok; 1206579]A few more categorical ways to make the ISG Forum more usable for the discerning monger:

Guys that like girls that look like monkeys & guys that like girls that look like porcelain dolls.

Go-go girls that put out & go-go girls that walk out.

Girls with computer skills & girls with old Nokias.

Indians from Mumbai & Indians from Bangalore.

Ugly Americans & Stupid Americans.

Etc, etc. .[/QUOTE]Aw, see'mon, you can fine tune better than that:

Go-go girls that look like monkeys that walk out & go-go girls that look like porcelain dolls that walk out.

Indians with computer skills from Bangalore who like girls who look like porcelain dolls & walk out versus Indians from Mumbai with old Nokias who like go-go girls who look like monkeys and put out.