Phnom Penh

I just reread the comment that angered Pedro Chilli, and the only way I can interpret it as condescending is if I really try. I have to picture myself saying it in the same tone that John Gielgud used when, as the butler in Arthur he told Liza Minelli that, "One usually has to go to a bowling alley to meet a woman of your stature." I assure you that is not how I talk.

Wendella, I am sorry you find my reports condescending and arrogant. When something is flat wrong, in my opinion, I do say so, and I admit that I seem to find more outright bad info on this board than any of the other dozen or so I have posted on (and no, I am not talking about any of the people involved in this discussion), mixed in with a lot of very very good advice. I try hard not to be insulting or make derogatory comments about the poster himself, but I don't beat around the bush, either. I don't do this because I want to prove a point (well, not usually), but because I want to help new or infrequent visitors avoid mistakes. I myself have suffered from bad advice and supposed facts that were just plain wrong given on various forums; 5 nearly wasted, boring days in Davao were one result. I also tend to use a somewhat more formal and direct tone in my writing than many people do on forums, and this may cause me to come across differently than intended. However, I certainly don't think I am infallible or that I know everything about the P4P scene in any of the places I have lived. If someone just has a difference of opinion, I try to make it clear that I respect that opinion but disagree with it. This is the case with Pedro Chilli. I most certainly don't think he does not know what he is talking about. I simply stated that one aspect of my experience has been different than his, and that I suspected that his friend may have made some mistakes due to not understanding how the bars in PP differ from those in Thailand. I actually agree with him that Heart is my favorite hunting grounds here, but it gets started a bit late for me and I have already been with most of the regulars there that I am interested in, so lately I have started going back to the hostess bars more. It doesn't hurt that many are walking distance from my house. As far as the Martini situation that you described, that is one of the few times when I would have discussed price first. I always do that if I see another guy shot down, and I also verify what services are offered. Sometime you do just get lucky, of course. I had a similar situation occur in Hong Kong, and ended up with a very beautiful Indo girl who gave fantastic service at the going rate--she just refused to go with guys who were drunk or obnoxious, which apparently the previous four guys I had seen approach her had been. However, had I been in your situation, I probably would have kicked her out and gone to look for another girl--but that in no way means I think you made the wrong decision.

Chistopherd, I agree very much with a lot of what you said. If a guy knows what the going rate is, and on rare occasions finds a girl who he thinks is worth more, then he should go for it. I have done so, as well, but it is not a frequent occurrence. I am about to head for the bars now, and if neither of my potential intended targets is available, I may well pay $30 for the girl I previously mentioned. If I was here for a short visit, I would not have hesitated to take her last week when she quoted me the price.

[QUOTE=Wendella]
Anyway, how much did you pay for your similar situation, if you don't mind my asking?[/QUOTE]

200 Reals Brasilian*. Though it wasn't that similar. If a girl tries to put the cinch on me I tend to lose patience and tell her to get lost, figuring if the money's so paramount the sex will be mechanical. But in this case I had already had her several times for quickies and wanted to be in control by making the play. Very lovely woman, worth every penny.

[color=gray]
[i]*about $85 at current rates. A lot of people will pay that anyway at a good club in Brasil. It's just that I pulled her out of a 'cheap' dive. In Cambodia, I'm only really interested in the cheapo end - Heart of Darkness is about my limit as I have fun there. But generally I don't rate Cambodia that high - the women are ok if they're not costing much, but they don't speak much English and are short on personality, added to that the pernicious attitude to their work so they can't take much pride in it . . . To me, Camb is ok for some down and dirty but probably not in the major league and there's no chance of treating any PDP as an equal. Not to say I don't love the place, just that it has its limits, in P4P and everything else. Go there to meditate, to learn humility, and have some P4P thrown in. That probably sums up my feelings, and I hope no-one's offended. [/i][/color]

[quote=wendella]i can now say, i haven't spotted a single girl since then that compares to that one i turned down that night in bangkok. it was 3 years ago.[/quote]i'm still kicking myself over a couple ones like this. as they say, the only ones you regret are the ones who get away. so ultimately the money is nothing, if trying to skimp on a few bucks cheats you out of a once-in-a-blue-moon opportunity.

frankly it's one problem with these forums: there's a lot of peer pressure here not to pay more than a certain arbitrary amount ('you'll ruin the market for all of us!'), regardless of the fact that sometimes the best value for money is when you pay top dollar.

Guys,

Don't get your knickers in a not. I don't mean to be threatning, what I say said is in jest. Actualy I would be happy to meet you and show you how it is done. I hate seeing people being taken advantage of and making fools of them selves.

I don't really care how much you guys spend either, it does fuck up the scence for everyone when you throw cash around without thinking though.

As for the comments about trust and not wanting to discuss price because it may spoil that GFE ellusion though is silly. The only person you are fooling about it being a GFE is yourself.

PS. Two weeks ago I did meet someone at the baggage carosel. Behind customs. I do know how Cambodia works.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491]Guys,

Don't get your knickers in a not. I don't mean to be threatning, what I say said is in jest. Actualy I would be happy to meet you and show you how it is done. I hate seeing people being taken advantage of and making fools of them selves.

I don't really care how much you guys spend either, it does fuck up the scence for everyone when you throw cash around without thinking though.

As for the comments about trust and not wanting to discuss price because it may spoil that GFE ellusion though is silly. The only person you are fooling about it being a GFE is yourself.

PS. Two weeks ago I did meet someone at the baggage carosel. Behind customs. I do know how Cambodia works.[/QUOTE]
I agree for the most part, although I would say that in a few rare circumstances here, and a few more in Angeles City, the illusion of the GFE goes both ways. I'd say somwhere between 1%-5% of the girls don't want to admit to themselves that they are prostitutes, and will appreciate it when the guy plays along. These girls will probably be happy with the going rate if given to them the next day, but might insist on more if you try to bargain up front. If she is Vietnamese or you meet her in the Walkabout, however, you can rest assured she does not fall into this category.

Would showing me how it is done include showing me how to hook up with a girl behind the baggage carousel? If so, let's do it! ;^)

The whole pricing argument is a nonsense..it simply comes down to what the market will bear...old unnatractive girls will cost a lot less than a young and very attractive girl.

Attractive girls ask for those prices because they know from eperience that people will pay it...no matter how much "experience" you have no guy will get a very attractive girl for less money than the average punter. Dont beat yourself up about what you pay for a girl and what you read on here..you have to see with your own eyes first exactly what the quality of the girl is.

I have paid $50 for a short time in Cambodia on a number of occasions and was very glad I did...i have had plenty of $5 and $10 girls too and whilst i remember fondly the $50 girls I have completely forgotten (or even put out of my mind) the cheap girls.

I have paid between $25-$40 for LT. And $10-$20 for ST. Yes, i have bought presents for the girl if we hit it off and she stays with me more than a day. Usually it is some clothes costing approx $20.
Are we inflating the price?
The answer is yes and no.
Yes in the sense cannot give too much money for ST where there is no emotional bond and it is purely carnal.
No in the sense if you like the girl and treat her like a GF , you do not mind helping her out. Obviously she goes the extra effort to make you happy.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy]i have had plenty of $5 and $10 girls too and whilst i remember fondly the $50 girls I have completely forgotten (or even put out of my mind) the cheap girls.[/QUOTE]Yes, very true. Though I also tend to remember the expensive girls when they disappoint! And for that matter, the cheap ones who were really great.

These days I'm more into quality than quantity, so I don't mind paying more for it. That's what's nice about this part of the world . . . there are girls of all levels of quality and in all price ranges.

[QUOTE=Bowerboy]The whole pricing argument is a nonsense..it simply comes down to what the market will bear...old unnatractive girls will cost a lot less than a young and very attractive girl.[/QUOTE]
Umm...no. At least not in my experience. While this is often true in Thailand and many other countries, in my experience it usually is not true in Phnom Penh--unless you are talking about girls who are so old and unattractive that they go for even less than $10 ST/$20-$25LT. Now, I do see signs that this is beginning to change in PP, but that may just be a high season reaction.
[QUOTE]
Attractive girls ask for those prices because they know from eperience that people will pay it...
[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, but a lot of times they ask silly prices either because someone has told them to, or because ONE guy (or a very few guys) paid them that much in the past. There are exceptions, especially in the hostess bars, but these are girls who rarely get barfined, and that is fine with them.
[QUOTE]
no matter how much "experience" you have no guy will get a very attractive girl for less money than the average punter.
[/QUOTE]
Usually true, although if they like you or you are young and attractive, you might get a discount or freebie.
[QUOTE]
Dont beat yourself up about what you pay for a girl and what you read on here..you have to see with your own eyes first exactly what the quality of the girl is.
[/QUOTE]
That I agree with. (Not that you care whether I do or not, I'm sure). It is your money, and if you think you got good value, then no reason to regret your decision, and nobody can say you were wrong. It may not have been the same price her other customers paid, but that really does not matter in this context.
[QUOTE]
I have paid $50 for a short time in Cambodia on a number of occasions and was very glad I did...i have had plenty of $5 and $10 girls too and whilst i remember fondly the $50 girls I have completely forgotten (or even put out of my mind) the cheap girls.[/QUOTE]
Then for you, I would say you made the right decision. If it was a girl from a karaoke, that may well have been the going price, but even if it was a Walkabout/Martini/hostess bar girl, if you were happy with the experience then it was a good move. None of my most memorable P4P girls, with one exception (4000 baht for LT with a girl from Rock Hard in Phuket in 2002) charged more than the going rate, and most would have been considered some of the best looking girls in their venues. (As much as I would like to, I have never been one of these guys who can go with an only semi-attractive girl and still think she is great just because of her attitude and performance.) However, none of my $5 experiences have been memorable in a good way, which is why I seldom visit the brothels here.

[QUOTE=Hippie]
Wendella, I am sorry you find my reports condescending and arrogant. When something is flat wrong, in my opinion, I do say so, and I admit that I seem to find more outright bad info on this board than any of the other dozen or so I have posted on [/QUOTE]

I don't want to go back and review anybody's reports anymore, if that's ok... I was probably overly harsh, and, perhaps even condescending and arrogant ;) in that report of mine. I definitely think Pedro Chilli was way too sensitive, and still don't see what ticked him off that much. Anyway, sorry, please don't take offense. I know, too late. If so, then just Sorry. Your reports are interesting and well written, I should also say. I still would say you tend to be a bit absolute, and maybe don't consider that experiences are different for each of us. I don't think all the girls can absolutely be had for what you say they can by ANYBODY. Just because you know for sure they go with you at that price, or people you know, doesn't mean they'd necessarily be available to anyone. Lots of factors could come into play. I have no idea how old you are, how good looking, if you look like you have money or not, well groomed, if you're known as a local, etc. The forum is deceiving in a way because it's easy to imagine we're all the same since you can't see anyone here. We're just known by the words we type. I could be wrong, but I'm doubting that any girl can be had for what you say by ANY guy. For myself, I haven't tried to pick up any girls from those 104 St type bars in PP, so I have no idea.

About that girl, I made up my mind I was gonna take her, and figured she'd charge a higher price. I never expected it to be that much though. No harm done. I enjoyed it enough that I even went back looking for more the next time I came to town, but didn't spot her again. There's a good lesson: [i]always[/i] get the phone number.

Fellow mongers,

I will be in PP and area for a week, if you want to party, exchange addresses, or just hang out, PM me.

BBB

Wendella, I was not angered by your post. There was no sarcasm intended by the "I'm sorry..." comment. When I say something in a way that seems absolute, that is generally because I believe it to be so. These kind of comments are always based on experience. If it is just an opinion, I try to be clear about that. An example of an absolute is the "going rate" for a ST or LT at a particular type of venue. This does not mean that every single girl charges the same amount, or that any girl charges the same amount to every guy. It means that a large majority of girls charge it to a large majority of guys. Maybe I was not always clear about that. I do try hard never to tell someone they overpaid. I simply say that what they paid was above the going rate, if I feel it necessary to say anything. Some might take those two statements to be the same thing, but they most definitely are not.

I assure you that I am not particularly young, fit, or handsome, and I could not care less whether I have "game" when it comes to dealing with P4P girls. I generally dress very casually, but will on occasion wear tailored slacks and shirts. (I have not seen that attire makes any difference here, but it made a big difference in my desirability in Thai discos.) On the plus side, I am clean, reasonably neatly groomed, and polite--I treat a working girl the same as anyone else. I have a friend here who is very obese (a few, actually, but that is another matter), but he still has girls who are thrilled to go with him for the prices I have quoted. The reason, the best I can tell, is that he treats them really well. At the other end of the scale, I have another friend who is in his early twenties and fit--and presumably handsome, but I can't tell--and he frequently gets freebies from hostess girls after work when he comes to PP. He gets even more in Thailand and Angeles City. I know other young guys who I am certain are better looking than him, and yet they get nowhere near the attention he does. I have no idea how he does it, other than by being very carefree, crazy, easy with drink money, and drunk off his ass every day of his vacations. By the same token, I have seen girls who absolutely despise him, because he can be uncomfortably rude if he thinks a girl is full of crap or an idiot--or especially if he thinks she considers him to be an overpaying fool. In short, I do recognize that everyone is different, but there are still certain things that apply to ALMOST everyone.

in Phnom Penh and Sihanoukville?

Will go there in Februari and dont know where to stay , not the most expensive places.

[QUOTE=Worltravel]in Phnom Penh and Sihanoukville?

Will go there in Februari and dont know where to stay , not the most expensive places.[/QUOTE]Maybe try reading this forum? There's quite a lot of suggestions posted by several people, including myself. Good luck.

How about K-11?

It is hot in discusion many years ago, who still know that place?