Moscow

[QUOTE=Guido88]Helena,

Curious what’s your thoughts on the effect of tiny tits on a women’s attitudes?
Guido88[/QUOTE]Uh Guido - I don't think Helena's the right person to ask about tiny tits.

But you bring up a very good question about over-paying for pussy. We've all done it at one time or another but who among us can explain why we do it? Curiosity? Laziness? Or maybe sometimes we're just to tired (and jet lagged) to haggle. Who knows?

I would suggest that over-paying is far more common that we think. I think that for every brave (but misguided) soul who reports on this forum that he has paid way over the going rate, there are 3 or more who keep their mouths shut for fear of ridicule from the good folks at ISG.

A friend of mine is a behavioral psychologist and I asked him about what would possess a guy to over pay for pussy and his response was surprising. He said that the number one reason that guys over pay is fear. It's the same fear that causes a a guy to ask an ugly girl to the school dance. You don't want to be the only guy standing there with no date.

It's the same psychology at work in Night Flight or HELP (to use two examples). You walk in and see 30 girls staking out their territory. Let's say you walk up to one you like and ask her how much. If you don't like the price she gives, you have a choice to make. Do I walk away or do I keep negotiating? Believe it or not, the most difficult thing to do is to walk away. It's like we're afraid of being branded "a loser" who has struck out. What will all the guys think? What will all the girls think? Most of you reading this will say, "THAT'S BULLSHIT", but it's true. Mind you, you guys are not the ones over paying are you?

The guys who overpay are afraid to walk away. Some say it's the little head thinking for the big head. No, it's not. It's fear.

But remember - the same rule applies in reverse. When a girl approaches you and gives you a number you don't like, she has a choice to make as well. Walk away or cut my losses on a sure thing with this guy? And it's a slippery slope from there is it not? My psychologist friend will stand at a bar in Rio and stare down the girl he wants from 20 feet away until she comes to him. He flatly refuses to approach a girl and enter her "zone". He says that when a client comes into "his office" they pay his going rate. He says the minute you walk into "her office", you're dead. She's got you and will stand firm on her price. She's not a motivated seller. The only way she's going to back off her price is if she believes that her asking price is really too high or that she's running the risk of going home empty handed and wants to cut her losses. Her motivation is directly inverse to yours. If she thinks that there's a good chance that someone will pay her price tonight she's gonna stand firm.

I wonder if there's a Forum for working girls where they chastise each other for accepting too little and eroding the price? I doubt it.

All of the fancy psychology aside, we are talking about a commodity here. And commodity pricing has been studied and written about in great detail. I mean, it's not a commodity like coal or pork bellies, but you get what I mean. I don't think Night Flight or HELP are going to have a shortage of girls anytime soon. The faces will be different, but the motivation is always the same. There will always be another one willing to take the place of one who has moved on.

What's the correct price for pussy? Exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, no less.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Guido88,

...and the surest path to value for your money is to learn to speak the local language. This is what opens up whole new markets for meeting women for sex; in any country.

When you walk into a Moscow night club and are greeted with "Good evening" instead of "dobri vyeachir", hang on to your wallet.

Unfortunately, Jackson refuses to support the Russian language on this board, thereby costing most of the guys here much more than they should ever have to pay.

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[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]The tiny dick can quite be a reason for terrible attitude to women.[/QUOTE]
And what about grotesque boobs ridiculously distorted by mounds of silicon, can it be a reason for an arrogant, deriding and argumentative attitude to mongers ?

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Guido88,

...and the surest path to value for your money is to learn to speak the local language. This is what opens up whole new markets for meeting women for sex; in any country.

When you walk into a Moscow night club and are greeted with "Good evening" instead of "dobri vyeachir", hang on to your wallet.

Unfortunately, Jackson refuses to support the Russian language on this board, thereby costing most of the guys here much more than they should ever have to pay.

счастливо[/QUOTE][url]www.sextalk.ru[/url]

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]Not to mongers, Prosal. Just to rude arrogant idiots. Everyine does what he or she wants. He started first. Noone pulled his dirty tongue to say all this shit. By the way, if you meant me saying about grotesque silicon boobs, you missed. There is not a drop of silicon in me and nothing is grotesque. If you don't like my proportions, don't come to me, that's all. By the way, noone knows the way you look. If all users posted their real pictures here, I think discussion could turn totally differen way.[/QUOTE]Come on you guys.... you are BOTH better than that. This is supposed to be a friendly site.

Hey Helena - look at the following article from the LA Times. Is this for real?? Have you heard anything about this? I can think of a few "wanna be" porn stars who might want to come to Prague to try their luck.

[quote]L.A. Times Feb. 11, 2008

__________________________________

Brothel promises to make its clients reality stars

Visitors to Big Sister in Prague might find their exploits being posted to a pornographic site.

By Douglas Lytle and Yon Pulkrabek, Bloomberg News
February 11, 2008
PRAGUE, CZECH REPUBLIC -- If you want to watch Nick having sex with a prostitute, he's happy to let you.

The 36-year-old bank-security technician drove eight hours from his home in Metz, France, to Big Sister, a Prague brothel, where customers peruse a touch-screen menu of blonds, brunets and redheads available for free. The catch is clients have to let their exploits be filmed and posted on the Internet.

"Sex is no taboo," Nick said, though he asked that his last name not be used. "You have to free your mind."

Big Sister is marrying 21st century technology with the world's oldest profession to profit from the public's appetite for graphic reality TV.

Since 2005, more than 15,000 men have taken up the offer of free sex in return for 15 minutes -- or less -- of fame, according to the brothel. Big Sister is now expanding into the U.S. with a local version of its website.

Visitors to the virtual brothel pay 29.95 euros ($43.88) for a one-month subscription to a smorgasbord of sex listed by position, preference and number of people. Big Sister also produces cable TV shows that air on Sky Italia and Britain's Television X, as well as DVDs such as "Sex Hyenas" and "Voyeur's Eye."

"Our goal is to attract as many people as possible to catch the first reality-sex TV," said marketing manager Carl Borowitz, 26, who goes by the name Carlos. "This is National Geographic for adults. Everyone's curious to watch their neighbor."

Visitors to the Big Sister brothel start at the electronic menu, which provides each woman's age, height, working name and the languages she speaks. After a customer makes his selection, a manager makes sure the client signs broadcast release forms, and then the intimate details are arranged with the partner for the evening.

After donning a burgundy terry-cloth robe and slippers in a carpeted locker room, each client heads downstairs where the action takes place. Every move is recorded by more than 50 video cameras mounted from the toilets to the bed posts.

Big Sister is the logical result of the reality TV craze, said Paul Levinson, chair of communications and media studies at Fordham University in New York.

"It does seem people like all extremes of reality TV," said Levinson, who hadn't been aware of Big Sister. "As media gets more advanced it gets more real."

At Big Sister, about a dozen guests perform on camera each night, and the website gets 10,000 to 15,000 hits a day, Borowitz said.

"Big Sister could potentially be a monster," says Bob Rice, a co-owner of YNOT.com, which advises porn companies on how to use the Internet. "I just think that their marketing isn't there yet. They're known in Amsterdam, perhaps, but not in the U.S."

Big Sister is based in a renovated apartment building just outside the narrow, winding streets of Prague's Old Town. There are no laws against paid sex in the Czech Republic.

The club's Austrian owners spent $7.4 million to buy and fix up the Big Sister building. Borowitz said they already have recouped their money.

Big Sister is owned by a Swiss company that doesn't identify its investors, Borowitz said. He declined to release further details. Bigsister.net is registered to IT Service Consulting in Switzerland. The corporate registry in the Swiss canton of Zug doesn't name the firm's owners.

At the brothel, the Alpine Room is decorated like the backdrop to "The Sound of Music," with fake Styrofoam rocks and a forest. Other rooms include Heaven, decked out in white, and Hell, which resembles a dungeon.

In a control room, three computer operators choose the best angles. One screen shows a portly, tattooed visitor trying to reenact the Kama Sutra with a thin woman with long black hair. A sign on the wall dissuades them from thinking they're the next Ingmar Bergman: "We do not film the air. We film people in a bordello having sex."

Big Sister has a staff of 25 to 45 women, depending on the season, and 45 workers behind the scenes.

Three-quarters of the prostitutes come from the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and they make $4,400 to $7,400 a month, Borowitz said. Average wages in the Czech Republic are less than $1,200 a month.

Nick said he's on his fourth visit to Big Sister.

He comes for the free sex, good beer and women who are "polite and very friendly," Nick said.

"It's a different concept. It's what the people want, to see normal people," he said.[/quote]

[url]http://honeymoscow.escortdiva.com/aboutme.php[/url]

I had an excellent time with Natali while in Moscow this week, she is a wild crazy (in a good way) girl. I was staying in the Golden Ring Hotel so needed to meet her in the lobby/bar, we started with a drink in the bar, half way through her vodka she leaned over and told me how horny vodka makes her. When we got up to the room she freshened up and came out ready to go, we started with a little kissing and then she went down on me like a mad woman, after a few minutes I had her move around for some 69, she loved it and after cuming on my mouth she got on all fours and ASK me to give to her ass, she really loved it, in fact I never got around to her pussy. It was 250 USD for an hour but she stayed almost 2 hours and never asked for any extra. For sure the next time I'm in Moscow I'll go back for more.

[QUOTE=Ralph T][url]http://honeymoscow.escortdiva.com/aboutme.php[/url]

I had an excellent time with Natali while in Moscow this week, she is a wild crazy (in a good way) girl. I was staying in the Golden Ring Hotel so needed to meet her in the lobby/bar, we started with a drink in the bar, half way through her vodka she leaned over and told me how horny vodka makes her. When we got up to the room she freshened up and came out ready to go, we started with a little kissing and then she went down on me like a mad woman, after a few minutes I had her move around for some 69, she loved it and after cuming on my mouth she got on all fours and ASK me to give to her ass, she really loved it, in fact I never got around to her pussy. It was 250 USD for an hour but she stayed almost 2 hours and never asked for any extra. For sure the next time I'm in Moscow I'll go back for more.[/QUOTE]
On her website it says $200/2 hours and you say she asked $250/hour?

Me no understand.

BTW, $200/5000 rubles for 2-3 hours is pretty standard in Moscow right now for girls in the 7-8 category.

[QUOTE=Ralph T][url]http://honeymoscow.escortdiva.com/aboutme.php[/url]

I had an excellent time with Natali while in Moscow this week, she is a wild crazy (in a good way) girl. I was staying in the Golden Ring Hotel so needed to meet her in the lobby/bar, we started with a drink in the bar, half way through her vodka she leaned over and told me how horny vodka makes her. When we got up to the room she freshened up and came out ready to go, we started with a little kissing and then she went down on me like a mad woman, after a few minutes I had her move around for some 69, she loved it and after cuming on my mouth she got on all fours and ASK me to give to her ass, she really loved it, in fact I never got around to her pussy. It was 250 USD for an hour but she stayed almost 2 hours and never asked for any extra. For sure the next time I'm in Moscow I'll go back for more.[/QUOTE]She loves single malt or JW Black too. But vodka is much cheaper so don't get her started on the whiskey!!! ;)

Jake993,

You make several good points, I think it is common to over pay and its easier period for most mongers.

Also there is an individual reality for each of us in a mongering situation. Some guys have not had a prime piece of ass since high school or perhaps never. Others are in RU for work and pressed for time. Some are just conservative by nature and hate to leave money on the table. The lucky ones have money to burn. For me the mongering is the sole focus of the trip. I try to get in an afternoon session and an evening one if I am not too drunk.

As too fear; it’s a tough call. For some that is probably true. Suspect it’s also related more to hormones and genetics. When you see a prime piece of Russian female 18’s year old radiating estrogen and a classic the ideal example of A+ breeding material it’s hard to say no. At least in my case this is the biggest challenge. I have at times paid more than I planned but never 2-3 times the going rate as I frequently read in the RU forums.

Walking away is critical in any negotiation for any product……

“The Zone” Dead on psychology. Your buddy is right on the money. Works just as well on freebie females too.

Yes there is a forum where the working girls post. Spangle has mentioned it a couple of times.

Pussy as a commodity; absolutely.

Correct price? You’re definition “Exactly what someone is willing to pay for it.” is often true.

I put the value at the price the Russian men pay. It’s my job as a buyer to find the best value I can. I am not a believer in a foreigner tax. I was lucky enough to have met several mongers with quite a bit of experience teach me the ropes of Moscow and Piter.

Now clearly its time to move into the provinces for value.

Seen the pic’s, Helena’s are not tiny. Has anyone seen a consistent attitude shown by small tits? The attitude shown by the “DD pairs” seem to be asking for bigger money as well.



Stravinsky



Yes, you are dead on the language skills. Have spent time with Spangle who has 20+ years RU linguistics. He does quite well in clubs; I will miss opportunities sometimes if the girls do not speak a little English.

Working on increasing my skills.

Good hunting


Guido88

Guido88,

Thanks for your comments and corroboration. Always good to know I'm not out there in "left field" by myself.

A friend of mine who has lived in Moscow for 9 years has an interesting twist to negotiation. If a girl is asking for 7,500 rubles (for example), he will offer 5,000 as a guarantee (paid up front) and then offer a bonus another 3,000 if she can convince him that it's the best sex he's ever had.

He tells me that he's had some interesting results. Some girls take it as a stop loss. Screw him for an hour and hit the road right away. Others will screw him for 5,000, fall asleep and hit the road at the crack of dawn. But he says that about 30% will take it as a challenge and take him for a "ride around the world". I mean we are talking all over the apartment and every room and every piece of furniture wild sex. One even negotiated taking it up to 10,000 if she stayed till noon the next day and cooked breakfast in his apartment after a few rounds of morning-after sex.

I find this approach intriguing and inventive. What I think is really interesting is the girl's attitude towards incentive and up-selling.

Gosh, you gotta love the way some Russians have embraced capitalism.

Jake

[QUOTE=Guido88]Stravinsky
Yes, you are dead on the language skills. Have spent time with Spangle who has 20+ years RU linguistics. He does quite well in clubs; I will miss opportunities sometimes if the girls do not speak a little English.

Working on increasing my skills.

[/QUOTE]

Guido,

Well, you don't need to quote stanzas from Onegin by heart, just a few simple phrases would be helpful, you know, things like;

"What's your name?"
"Where are you from?"
"My name is..."
"Would you like to go back to my hotel/apartment?"
"How much?"
"Do you do anal?"

и т.д.

There is a wealth of info on sextalk.ru, for those who can read Russian, but for the rest, it's not much help.

If Jackson would give us one little tiny thread for "Russian Language Phrases", it would be immensely helpful. We could have dialogues on how to get into a salon, or negotiate for a call girl, for example.

How about it Jackson? I know you're listening...

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[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]She now has 200euros/7000rub for 2 hours. No time to change the website. Forget about "categories". It's just the matter of taste. Rates are based on demand. If I was not sitting desperately in the new city of Prague where almost nobody knows me, I'd also increase the rates. And I will when get back home :))) The situation in Moscow is quite suitable for this.[/QUOTE]
As they say, "a fool and his money are soon parted".

Wish you the best of luck, may you find many fools... :)

[QUOTE=Jake993]

A friend in Moscow negotiates a guarantee paid up front and a bonus.

[/QUOTE]

This is only possible for independents.

What I often need to negotiate is a 90 minute agreement, because if on introduction a girl appears to have some good potential, then only one hour usually means some rushed service and not enough time to reflect on her attributes. This is due to time wasted in the bathroom and smoking, and because agencies always call after about 45 minutes to get thing wrapped up as fast as possible to prevent delays.

Too many agencies do NOT discount the second hour, so this is akin to paying double, which is something I avoid if at all possible. One way is to propose cutting that in half, along with the time, which in most cases is just enough to not be rushing, when the girl and the service she provides is average to good. This is not the case if she is excellent, then a full second hour is absolutely an appropriate expense, but its really a waste if she isn't.

[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]This is only possible for independents.[/QUOTE]Sorry - you are correct.

Jake993

We all need to be paid for good work. Problem is in the sex biz high price does not always equal a good experience. I like your buddies approach. I often negotiate for a tip if the service is good.

One important thing is to ask. I had a tochka agree to 2 girls for the price of one. Cold night, it was slow and late, you don’t know till you ask.


Stravinsky

LOL…

You do have the 6 essential phrases there. If she does anal there’s probably not much she will not do. She is a good girl.

Spangle has posted volumes on WSA about every aspect of RU mongering, Internet dating, language phrase suggestions. Maybe he can be talked into sharing it here as well.

Guido88