Moscow

Елена, дорогая...
такой сильный ураган ты сделала!! :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
NF is also an anomaly in another sense as there are no Russian clients in NF... they're forbidden.[/QUOTE]
Doc,

I'm not sure that's entirely correct, unless there was a recent policy change.

Of the thousands of reviews of nightclubs on sextalk.ru, there is only 1 of Night Flight. A local guy walked in one night and spent an hour or 2 hanging out and talking to the dyeffki. He couldn't find a single one who would go with him for less than $200 (this was maybe 3 years ago?). He concluded that they were all crazy and left.

NF doesn't need to ban local guys from entering, none of them are stupid enough to go in there in the first place!

счастливо

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]

Can we for once think about them..
they deserve a payrise

[/QUOTE]

I'll tell you what they deserve.

They deserve to have my dick up their ass.

Doc,

In a perfect world pricing should be uniform. Throw in the human element and things always get sticky.

I have seen salon-pricing change on the same girl depending whether she is advertised on a RU site or user-friendly English site. On occasion I get to a salon and magically prices are higher. Or the girl comes to the door and rates have raised 500-1000 rubles.

Also at times I have seen Tochkas bump pricing if they think they can get away with it. The cute little blond is one night $100 and the next $150. Same pussy, same girl. Sometimes they will negotiate on better pricing as well.

Two key words are “Negotiate” and the word “No”. We should never hesitate with using either. Mongers should walk if we feel they are attempting to screw us.

With or without the language, research and negotiation will bring better pricing.

What I have difficulty with is mongers posting they paid 2-4 times the going rate. Sets a bad precedent for the future that affects us all. No doubt it’s hard for the newbies seeing their 1st piece of prime Russian pie.

Watched Prague go thru the same issues. Now pricing, quality and service have changed dramatically for the worse.

The certainty is that there is no shortage of attractive pussy in Russia.

1st to admit I am a cheap bastard. Much prefer to buy 3 pair of legs for the price of 2.

Guido88

Born Loser 5,

Your joking right?

Either that or you must be Helena’s alter ego.

By local standards those girls are quite well paid for their work. Some of them even enjoy the multiple orgasms along with the better standard of treatment from the western men.

Have to agree with Bez on this one.

Guido88

[QUOTE=Guido88]Born Loser 5,

Your joking right?

Either that or you must be Helena’s alter ego.

By local standards those girls are quite well paid for their work. Some of them even enjoy the multiple orgasms along with the better standard of treatment from the western men.

Have to agree with Bez on this one.

Guido88[/QUOTE]

I want to but as DS said...they don't pay taxes..but they very well pay to mafia or pimps or send money back home to support their family and then after few months..we will itself complain..ohh the prices are rising, the mafia is controlling all the wh**res in russia, the young women are being forced into prostitution or all of them are junkie's now.

All i was saying is,,,,, they should get their due..they being serving us for so long...so what if the prices are rising...their must be a reason behind it.. even if their is no reason...they should get a reasonable payrise for the service they render to us...i only looked at that way..when the prices are rising everywhere

Isn't it a fair assumption...for me..i think it is..cos i being barking my company for a payrise all months now ( the company i joined recently, i was fired from the other company when i was in the Philippines mongering :)) and with my experience in the company..i knew they can't fire me, i forced them in a way with my experience for payrise..and they did and i had a bonus too..like all wall street fund managers :)

Now how hypocrite i can get, i asked for a payrise with my experience for myself....i take that money to a girl and when she says the prices are up from last year..i go crazy, accuse her of being a greedy materialistic b**tch.

and when i contemplate..is she really greedy and the thing that stung me most was..her experience don't count at all...she is infact less wanted with more experience and they have a window period of only 10 years or so.

Man..i don't want to be in a whor*ess shoe with my experience :)

I think we all should be treated equally not exploited.

It is totally heartless and inconsiderate in our part to not consider a pay hike for them....

Think about it..no one cares about them neither society nor government..they only have us for whatever they want...we are their god, their devil, their ATM, there angel, their lovers..we are everything for them..a single window for their joys and sorrows

Really it is pretty simple no matter where in the World of Mongering and P4P, and no matter which side of the bed you are on, so to speak.

Willing buyer, willing seller.

Throw in demonstrated respect from both sides and both will be (hopefully) satisfied with the arrangement.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5]I want to but as DS said...they don't pay taxes..but they very well pay to mafia or pimps or send money back home to support their family and then after few months..we will itself complain..ohh the prices are rising, the mafia is controlling all the wh**res in russia, the young women are being forced into prostitution or all of them are junkie's now.

I think we all should be treated equally not exploited.

It is totally heartless and inconsiderate in our part to not consider a pay hike for them....

Think about it..no one cares about them neither society nor government..they only have us for whatever they want...we are their god, their devil, their ATM, there angel, their lovers..we are everything for them..a single window for their joys and sorrows[/QUOTE]
Cry me a river.

This discussion started when Helena said that prices have always been high in Moscow, that's simply not true. They were much lower until just a few years ago. Nonetheless the golden age of cheap pussy in Moscow is over and it ain't coming back. This is compounded by the devaluation of the dollar as well, which has lost considerably in comparison to the ruble.

Still, no one here has said that their rates shouldn't climb with time. They should of course and they have, it is a question of how much and where and if this is in accordance to the market.

Many aspects of prostitution in fact have NOT increased much in the last 10 years, particularly salons. The most drastic increases have been in those places where travelling businessmen find their women... at the pickup bars and among independents, whose price increases are far above any increases in cost of living etc. These women are pocketing most of this price increase themselves. Sure prices for everything has gone up in Russia, but the price for pussy from NF/CF has gone up at an even higher rate... we are talking up to 300% increases over the course of a few years. Wish I had that kind of pay raise. Point is we do not control market prices, we can only try to get the best value for the money or in the case of ridiculous prices, simply not give them our business.

As for pimps/mafia etc., this varies greatly from the type of work the girl is doing. I don't know exact numbers, but AFAIK it basically it boils down as follows.

Tochka girls are probably the worst off, getting about 40% of what you pay. The rest goes to the local boys. They also have to deal with the militia etc., although the mamachka probably helps them out with that, she is after all the manager. Tochka work is essentially contract work, although there are some independents who work tochkas off an on only when they need money. The phenomenon of one girl being $150 on Tuesday and $200 on Friday is not just for foreigners by the way, a girl's price is based on the market situation on any particular night and often on what SHE thinks she can earn. The higher price she can get, the more she pockets. Simple economics.

NF and CF girls pay a nominal fee, at NF it is the entrance fee that we all pay too, I think it is still 750 rubles ($30) and at CF it is the 1000 ruble ($40) security fee. Trust me, these girls pass this fee on to YOU in one way or another, sometimes blatantly. Some girls at NF/CF have pimps, many don't. I would even venture to say that most don't... but that doesn't mean they aren't passing their earnings on to boyfriends etc.

Independents keep most of what they earn. I know a few quite well and they don't pay any fees to anybody. They don't live poorly and they aren't sending all their money to a sick grandmother. They are just trying to earn as much as possible for what they do. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't mean I have to partake either. Not sure what if anything Helena has to pay on fees and it's not like she's telling.

Not sure what the agencies pay their girls, but I am guessing they get around 60-70% of what you pay. The rest goes to the agency, which is fair as they organise the contact and bring the girl work she might not find alone or might simply be too lazy to find on her own. Language is also an issue for some girls, particularly for those agencies that service foreign customers.

Hotel lobby girls generally pay the hotel a standard fee for the right to hang out in the lobby drinking cheap champagne or orange juice for hours on end trolling for customers. In most cases about $50 if things are still as they were a couple years back. They keep the rest if they score. In my experience you can often talk these girls down big-time. Opening offer $300, 2 minutes later $150. That shows you right there that they aren't giving up much to any mysterious "mafia".

Salon girls get about half of their fee, the rest goes to the salon who has to pay off the police, mafia, fire department or whomever.

Sponsorship is another aspect entirely and they have also profited greatly from the Moscow cash boom. These opportunistic little ladder-climbers and fashion junkies pocket everything, up to $10.000/month and averaging about $3000 for girls in the 6-8 category.

I have a girlfriend who is getting $5000/month from a rich Jew that she sees 3-4 times a MONTH. He just has money to throw out the window and she is that window. Needless to say she fucked me for free and still does. She has some really nice clothes somebody else bought too. Wonder if he knows she modeled that $200 "la Perla" underwear for me before I fucked her in the ass he's paying for?

Club freelancers keep every kopeck and are just opportunists. Fucked one for 500 rubles once. Was more of a joke than anything else, she was silly drunk and I told her I'd pay her taxi back to Himki if she fucked me.

Generally speaking, independents and girls working the pickup bars may earn my respect for pursuing their line of work, but they don't get any sympathy from me when whining about costs and prices. They don't live that poorly.

Tochka and salon girls may get my sympathy in some cases, but I can't change their lives so I give them a fair but not outlandish price. Tipping anything over $10 is stupid. You aren't going to rescue these girls. Besides that, most of them chose that line of work and it isn't worse than working at McDonalds. If they hate it so much, maybe they should have been better in school. Do you give the girls working at Taco Bell a bottle of perfume because they never learned to type?

The price increases in the last few years have only caused me to avoid p4p in Moscow, nobody is going to get me to pay $300 for sex. It is not that valuable to me, simple as that.

St.Pete and the regions offer better value for the money. You can still get 2-3 hours of quality sex in your apartment or hotel for $120-150.

clap..clap..clap..

Well said as always Doc.

Gloomy and doomy me just disagrees with you on one point. When the bottom falls out of the petro market the Russian economy will collapse. That will probably bring about the 2nd Golden Age of Cheap FSU Pussy. :)

I think BL's problem is he needs to date a girl or two he doesn't need to pay. :D

Dr. S,

I agree whole heartedly. Well said indeed.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
In 1998 after the crash you could get girls for Pokemon cards. I had 2 girls literally fight over me in a club once.[/QUOTE] - I imagine what sort of girls they were :) Guess they still cost the same.

[QUOTE=Guido88]Helena
You consistently preach that all we mongers need to do is pay higher prices and all will be fine.[/QUOTE] – You don’t have to, but you could :)

[QUOTE=Guido88]2004 & 2005 I was paying $75-125 dollars for prime quality pussy both at the tochkas and the Boarhouse for all night service. $75 an hour would bring top notch escort girls to my door in 30 minutes or less.[/QUOTE] – You speak about pussys, but I do about women. Top escorts don’t go for 30 minutes or less. This is the principal difference between pussys and companions. Rates didn’t fall neither in NF, not in Boarhouse, not in the newspapers. Only the most desperate ones went for the rates you mention. Surely not top-class, not even the average.

[QUOTE=Guido88]As I have mentioned before true value of the RU pussy is what the Russian men are paying for the same experience.[/QUOTE] – Russians are much more generous than you, dear. Just for information.

[QUOTE=Guido88]For anyone to pay more than that is STUPIDITY……..[/QUOTE] - The real stupidity is to have cheap life, cheap taste and cheap women. Finally you get cheaper yourself. Not so much fun.

[QUOTE=Guido88]Makes no difference to most of us if English is spoken at all. We are there for the tight bodies and sex.[/QUOTE] – There are people or another sort on this forum, too. But they mostly read and call the right ladies, instead of writing. Having cheap sex doesn’t make your dick longer. Anyone can do it. Try something better.

[QUOTE=Prosal]Right.
And at the same time she pettily skimps for 100 € on a plane ticket and grumbles post after post about her allegedly "expensive" travel spendings.
Go figure.
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE] – Sure, I watch my budget. Living abroad for months is expensive pleasure.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D] And of course the really funny part is saying how girls were not making less then $150/hr or $300/night during the ruble crash of 98. I'm sure Ms. Moscow was probably making that but she was probably it. I’m sure you can still find quality girls for those prices in the crazy hyper inflated Moscow today. Back in 1998? Helena I think is just trying to be silly and entertain us. :D [/QUOTE] - Not at all. In the 1998 there was really less job and less foreigners in Moscow. But work for pennies doesn't make you richer. For small money better do something... more peaceful than escorting. For example, work as enterpreter or secretary, or a journalist. All these works bring about the same amount which girls make when they go for miserable prices. And these jobs are well-treated by society. I was about to search one of these jobs at that time, and... by accident became lucky with a wonderful Japaneese banker lover. He naturally saved my life. But if I didn't have him, for small money I'd do something different. I'd never go down in price. It's better not work at all. Try to negotiate with me, and you’ll see.

[QUOTE=Born Loser 5] Think about it..no one cares about them neither society nor government..they only have us for whatever they want...we are their god, their devil, their ATM, there angel, their lovers..we are everything for them..a single window for their joys and sorrows[/QUOTE] – Born Loser, you begin to have megalomania. Be careful :)

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Some girls at NF/CF have pimps, many don't.[/QUOTE] - N.F. is not the place for pimps. There are a couple of jokers, though, who shake down spring checken, but this is not serious...

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]They don't live poorly and they aren't sending all their money to a sick grandmother.[/QUOTE] - Many girls help grandparents. I do. If my grandmother is sick, which with the age happens more often, if she needs to pay for treatment, this is not even the question to discuss. Remember, most of Russians have not a proper medical insurance. For the one we have from the government, we get only minimal service. The rest costs. And costs a lot.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I have a girlfriend who is getting $5000/month from a rich Jew that she sees 3-4 times a MONTH. He just has money to throw out the window and she is that window. Needless to say she fucked me for free and still does. She has some really nice clothes somebody else bought too. Wonder if he knows she modeled that $200 "la Perla" underwear for me before I fucked her in the ass he's paying for?[/QUOTE] - Quite a common situation. Most of women provided by a rich but busy or boreing man not just fuck for free, but also have gigolos. Rublevka's wifes do the same. By the way, pleople say you look good. Never saw, but I believe.

Come on Helena..I had to listen to all the Soviet propaganda during the Cold War. Let's not try to rewrite history about how things really were not all that bad during the ruble crash of '98. $100 bill in your pocket would get you just about any girl in the p4p business in Moscow in '98 - not just the 'bad' girls who were 'desperate' and 'cheap'. Are you really trying to say that girls were 'bad' and 'desperate' unless they made not less then $150/hr or $300/night in 1998? If you do then you are indeed one of the very small minority of 'good' girls. As far as I know there are no male Russian posting on this forum. So you’re 'new Russian' monetary logic is going to fall on deaf ears. Sorry, but for the most part we are a bunch of 'greedy' Westerners. I'll never under estimate the vanity of a Russian girl or the Russian innate ability to ignore/re write history. One of my favorite lines from a Russian/Ukrainian is hearing ‘It is normal…. (to overpay)’. When ever I hear that I know some one is going to try to scam me. :D

I don’t think you are going to have to worry about negotiating with me for your services anytime soon. My tastes fall for under $200, under 28, under 55kg and over 174cm. I am far too ‘greedy’ for you. :D

So did the Japanese businessman save you from being a $50-$100 girl or did he save you from becoming a secretary? I’d be willing to bet my favorite Ukrainian girl that you were more then happy with making $100/night in 1998. But only you and the guys who paid you know for sure, right? :D As far as secretaries, interpreters and journalists making the same as an escort in a much more peaceful profession. I think you are trying to be silly again. In 1998 if they were getting paid at all it was in almost worthless rubles. They were making a fraction of the earnings of an escort who was getting paid in hard currency.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis[/url]

I miss 1998, heck I miss every year in the 90's. :D

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]clap..clap..clap..

Well said as always Doc.

Gloomy and doomy me just disagrees with you on one point. When the bottom falls out of the petro market the Russian economy will collapse. That will probably bring about the 2nd Golden Age of Cheap FSU Pussy. :)

I think BL's problem is he needs to date a girl or two he doesn't need to pay. :D[/QUOTE]DS Cutting straight through the bullshit!

Fox77177

After the 1998 crisis the average wages in Russia fell from 180$ to 85$ per month.Till 2003 they had reached 180$ again.Now they stand over 750$.One can draw conclusion how the prices for p4p and freebies have varied accordingly.
That is you have to pay now 10 times more for the same quality like in 1998 or 5 times more to get half the quality or half the quantity.

Helana,

Thank you for making me laugh this afternoon.

Why overpay for anything?

Pussy and woman are the same, turn them upside down and the ALL look like sisters.

Only difference is cost and quality.

Russians more generous? LOL……..Why would you ever see a western client?

Or perhaps the famous “Черный уикэнд” (Black weekend) Care to explain how the generous RU man operates in this scenario?

We both know the truth on this issue. Western men are the best things to happen to the RU working girls. That’s why you are now in Praha.

Funny how those that disagree with you are labeled “little dick”. Your concept that life is enhanced by recklessly spending money is a joke. Only a fool overpays.

My life is enhanced by fucking as many beautiful women as I can for the best price.

Check the photo section for a good example of desperate, cheap, that my “little dick” quite enjoyed in 2004 for the price of $47.00 per hour. Top class and well above average with a great attitude.

Guido88

[QUOTE=Victoria2005]Helena correctly speaks. I completely agree with it. Guys, you name such prices. I did not hear about such.[/QUOTE]
Vika,
just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass I checked old posts.

In 2003 I was paying $100 from CF and $150 from NF for TOP DRAWER poon.

Tochkas were still $50/$75/$100 but about to move up to $75/$100/$150.

In 1998-99 I paid $70 at cf and $100 at NF. Some guys were paying as low as $50 at CF.

You may not have heard of such prices, but guys like me from this forum were PAYING such prices.

The notion that people were paying $300/night in 1998 is ridiculous. Prices at Night Flight STARTED at $200 in 2000 and girls easily negotiated down to $150 and even $100.

In 1998-2002 I got numbers from strippers at Dolls and Tsunami (now closed) and fucked them FOR FREE.... not because I was such a stud but because they wanted to get the hell out of Moscow.

Sorry babe, them was desperate times for a lot of girls and the price structure was according.

Today it's different and prices are as much as 3-5x higher than they were a few years ago.

There is no use whining about it, but especially for those of us who were in Russia during that era, it is hard to swallow the price explosion.

So if I am not talking out of my ass, who is?
[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]
- Many girls help grandparents. I do. If my grandmother is sick, which with the age happens more often, if she needs to pay for treatment, this is not even the question to discuss. Remember, most of Russians have not a proper medical insurance. For the one we have from the government, we get only minimal service. The rest costs. And costs a lot.
[/QUOTE]
I know many girls do help their relatives. I have visited babushki, various "sisters/cousins", sick parents etc. etc. with girls I know in Russia. I find it very heart-warming and human and quite frankly it impressed me. This human quality is one of the many reasons I adore Russian women.

My point is another however... if a girl is giving you some sob story about her dying grandmother asking for an extra $50 it may or may not be true. Most likely she just wants a new phone or her boyfriend needs a fix.