Moscow

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Thanks FLOFLO

Namster,

I personally prefer Kiev than Moscow. Its smaller, the girls are more friendly and beautiful in my opinion. Street game is possible in Kiev, not really in Moscow. Cafes are all good too!!! The time your talking about with a bunch of drunk brits i think is the worst possible time to go.[/QUOTE]
Haha.. :)

I was actually just going to comment that I prefer Moscow to Kiev... I find the Moscow girls easier, more cosmopolitan and interesting personality-wise than Kiev girls. In terms of beauty, you won't go wrong in either place. Ukrainian girls are top in terms of sheer beauty though and you'll find more of the leggy blonde types that make Italians go nuts in Kiev than in Moscow, although I prefer the diversity of shapes and types of beauty that Moscow offers. I generally go for dark-haired women, but have "almost" been converted into a blonde fan. They fuck so well. What can I say.

Kiev is cheaper in terms of running costs, however also a "tourist city" in the summer, relaxed, friendly and easier to navigate, whereas in Moscow business rules and if you are not careful Moscow will grind you up and spit you out. In Kiev English is more commonly spoken than in Moscow... although that probably has just as much to do with the Ukrainians willingness to speak and the Russians unwillingness to do so. Girls are smarter than boys in both countries. Whoring is getting expensive in both cities... especially in Moscow or in "little Moscow" known as River Palace in Kiev.

There is street game in both cities, although especially on Sunday's when it becomes a walking street, Kiev's Kreshatik has no real parallel in Moscow, which is not as centralized as Kiev. For that matter Moscow has many many more places that people meet and is sheer endless in it's possibilities. You really are missing something if you "only" go to Pushkin Square and Red Square. There are more discos and clubs in Moscow than any city in the world, the vast majority I have never been to and I've been to dozens.

Cafe, bar, club scenes are similar, although I personally find Moscow girls more open to ONS arrangements and Moscow has more in-week options than Kiev. What Moscow has that Kiev is only now developing is a huge market of office sluts, girls 25-35, often already divorced once, who just want to have a good time. There isn't much effort besides charm required and thankfully little detachment stress. You may have to get a little more into the Moscow scene to tap this though, I've met many of them through common friends although just as many were met on the internet or in bars/clubs.

Housing/apartments are nicer in Kiev for the most part than Moscow... and certainly much cheaper.

My preference for Moscow may have something to do with home field advantage though... although I don't live there, I feel very much at home whereas Kiev is still just a place I visit... so I suppose all is relative.

I agree with Rob Hay however that the week of the CL championship game will have most "expat" type bars full of drunken Englishmen, which "amazingly" enough seems to drive the women away. That is of course provided the fans get their visas in time... apparently there are like 100.000 visa applications from the UK pending.

May is a good month in general though, may be even the best month... spring feelings and all that. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice Rob very much appreciated.

[QUOTE=Rob Hay]Thanks FLOFLO

Namster,

I personally prefer Kiev than Moscow. Its smaller, the girls are more friendly and beautiful in my opinion. Street game is possible in Kiev, not really in Moscow. Cafes are all good too!!! The time your talking about with a bunch of drunk brits i think is the worst possible time to go.[/QUOTE]

Valuable advice once again DS, thank you very much. I will discuss with my Italian friends and I think it will be Kiev as much as I like Chelsea I don't want to get into the potential trouble that may occur with 40, 000 British fans, even though we already paid for the Visa to Moscow

So my final questions would be place's to stay, any recommendations? , also which places to hit on 1st night of arrival, Avalon? , 112?

Thanks

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Haha.. :)

I was actually just going to comment that I prefer Moscow to Kiev... I find the Moscow girls easier, more cosmopolitan and interesting personality-wise than Kiev girls. In terms of beauty, you won't go wrong in either place. Ukrainian girls are top in terms of sheer beauty though and you'll find more of the leggy blonde types that make Italians go nuts in Kiev than in Moscow, although I prefer the diversity of shapes and types of beauty that Moscow offers. I generally go for dark-haired women, but have "almost" been converted into a blonde fan. They fuck so well. What can I say.

Kiev is cheaper in terms of running costs, however also a "tourist city" in the summer, relaxed, friendly and easier to navigate, whereas in Moscow business rules and if you are not careful Moscow will grind you up and spit you out. In Kiev English is more commonly spoken than in Moscow... although that probably has just as much to do with the Ukrainians willingness to speak and the Russians unwillingness to do so. Girls are smarter than boys in both countries. Whoring is getting expensive in both cities... especially in Moscow or in "little Moscow" known as River Palace in Kiev.

There is street game in both cities, although especially on Sunday's when it becomes a walking street, Kiev's Kreshatik has no real parallel in Moscow, which is not as centralized as Kiev. For that matter Moscow has many many more places that people meet and is sheer endless in it's possibilities. You really are missing something if you "only" go to Pushkin Square and Red Square. There are more discos and clubs in Moscow than any city in the world, the vast majority I have never been to and I've been to dozens.

Cafe, bar, club scenes are similar, although I personally find Moscow girls more open to ONS arrangements and Moscow has more in-week options than Kiev. What Moscow has that Kiev is only now developing is a huge market of office sluts, girls 25-35, often already divorced once, who just want to have a good time. There isn't much effort besides charm required and thankfully little detachment stress. You may have to get a little more into the Moscow scene to tap this though, I've met many of them through common friends although just as many were met on the internet or in bars/clubs.

Housing/apartments are nicer in Kiev for the most part than Moscow... and certainly much cheaper.

My preference for Moscow may have something to do with home field advantage though... although I don't live there, I feel very much at home whereas Kiev is still just a place I visit... so I suppose all is relative.

I agree with Rob Hay however that the week of the CL championship game will have most "expat" type bars full of drunken Englishmen, which "amazingly" enough seems to drive the women away. That is of course provided the fans get their visas in time... apparently there are like 100.000 visa applications from the UK pending.

May is a good month in general though, may be even the best month... spring feelings and all that. Good luck![/QUOTE]

Re-reading my last vodka fueled post.

I realize I did not offer much in the way of positive suggestions.

Apologies.

In 36 years of mongering it pains me to see one of the last great (Or the Best IMHO) location for petite, light skinned women will bend over backward and beyond to please men, go to shit as Amsterdam, Prague, Paris and even the USA in years past have gone.

Beware the Fem Nazi attitude that has ruined the USA and a fair amount of Europe and Eastern Europe for mongering.

A few suggestions;

1st off in Russia men set the rules period.

Escorts and salons- Research the correct price & time. When you call clearly describe what you are looking for. Most agencies are looking for repeat business and if you ask they will do their best to accommodate. Ask the agencies which girls have good attitude and whom they recommend. I have found that the majority of the time they have been quite helpful, once again they want you happy.

When the girl arrives after your name the next question the Dev will ask is whether you are Tourist or Business. Always business, she and the agency want repeat money. Makes for better service. Even better tell her you now live there.

If you ask, salons for home delivery will frequently send 2-4 girls for you to choose from.

When the girl arrives if she is not what you ordered send her back with cab fare.

Otherwise make sure she does not try to up charge you from agreed rates and point to the clock and clearly make sure she understands 2 hours from that point.

The little Minx’s will try to take advantage if you let them.

I try to not pay up front. Show them the money and say work (Robata) 1st then rubles second.

When you can always negotiate with a sense of humor. There are so many gorgeous girls in RU if you NEGOTIATE you can get a realistic price.

Tochkas will at times offer better value; the same girl may be cheaper night-to-night or Tochka to Tochka You have to shop, earlier is better. Sometimes the Tochka will offer a second girl at a discounted price. Key is to ask, winter and foul weather will work in your favor.

Tochkas and salons in call you must pay upfront.

Tips will help for great service and repeat visits, I have had done most of the girls in a salons with a small tip, word of mouth carries between the girls providing good service.

Once any girl is back to the apartment I always leave a tip visible. She knows she will be rewarded for a good performance.

The only mongers paying 10,000 rubles or more are the newbies. None of the experienced mongers see the need to overpay.

Any problems call the agency or salon; take the girl back to the Tochka. Once the girls realize you are not a naive tourist they will comply as promised.

Don’t let the Devs Bullshit you, some will try.

Once in a great while things will go to shit and you must cut you losses and take the hit. This is really unusual. Best thing you can do is getting rid of the bad girl and move on to the next.

For me this is rare, happens to everybody on occasion. If an agency fucks you, move on, post and write them off.

Learn a few essential words of the language. Does not take many.

Did I mention negotiate?

Guido88

Yes, my way is always verbal. I speak Russian fluently. I'm not too good at using dancing and body language in loud inviromnents.

All that said, what is TGIF?? Basically, can anyone suggest where I can chat up young (18-23) gorgeous girls in seemless, not too stressful atmosphere? I'm sure they congregate somewhere.

Many thanks for your advice.

Aibolit

[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]If you don't like clubs, because you don't dance and are not comfortable, then they are not going to work for you.

Try social bars and restaurants - like TGIF, where you can chat up girls in an atmosphere that works for you. Or try internet dating, especially if you are prepared to invest some effort into a short-term relationship.[/QUOTE]

Dr. Skank and other gurus:

As I've mentioned, I'm going to be in Mosclow soon. I noticed that Dr. Skank specializes in the same type of girls that I like: gorgeous teenies that are non-pros. I also noticed that some of them can be met on Mamba etc.

So, my quesitons are:

1. How complex and time consuming it is to develop a Mamba relationship that could lead to a date in Moscow?

2. Any tips on how to handle this WITHOUT posting my picture? I don't want my picture on the internet.

3. Any other tips of where I can chat up girls. Clubs sounds nice, but I'm sure it's very loud and I'll be competing with huge Russian guys. Plus, I don't have a friend to go to a club with and coming alone seems pathetic.

I truly will appreciate your feedback on this.

Regards,

Aibilit.

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Dr. Skank and other gurus:

As I've mentioned, I'm going to be in Mosclow soon. I noticed that Dr. Skank specializes in the same type of girls that I like: gorgeous teenies that are non-pros. I also noticed that some of them can be met on Mamba etc.

So, my quesitons are:

1. How complex and time consuming it is to develop a Mamba relationship that could lead to a date in Moscow?

2. Any tips on how to handle this WITHOUT posting my picture? I don't want my picture on the internet.

3. Any other tips of where I can chat up girls. Clubs sounds nice, but I'm sure it's very loud and I'll be competing with huge Russian guys. Plus, I don't have a friend to go to a club with and coming alone seems pathetic.

I truly will appreciate your feedback on this.

Regards,

Aibilit.[/QUOTE]
It is not complicated to communicate on or get dates off of Mamba (or any of the related sites), however you should consider the following:

1) Without a picture, you'll reduce your chances of response considerably. Most profiles without pictures are simply ignored.

2) Many of the girls will only communicate in Russian, many also will write in English too however. Best to be flexible in using both.

3) Do not expect every girl to respond, the bigger the age difference to you and her level of beauty (and subsequent popularity) as well as what she is looking for on the site all contribute to how likely she is to respond. Some girls are looking for love, some for sex and fun, some just to communicate with their friends or strangers, some to pass time while at work or at home, some to find a sponsor and some are pros.

4) There is a link on the site where you can see who checked out your profile, browse these. If you find something you like, contact them and they usually respond. These are the most likely to start up an easy conversation with.

5) Just because you are communicating and just because she gave you her phone number does not mean you are in her pants yet. Many girls "chicken out", "get ill" or are suddenly "in the country" with babushka when it comes time to meet. Some girls are just on the site to get attention, some are genuinely afraid to meet men, some already have boyfriends and some are just silly giggling girls. If you get a "real" date and she meets you, you are already on the "a" list and have good chances to score. Sometimes the opportunity arises on the very first date, however if not you shouldn't worry. If she agrees to meet you a second time, you should make your move.

6) In any form of internet dating you have to have thick skin and be able to take your lumps. Not everybody is going to be interested in you. In that same context, if girls write you that you are not interested in don't write back. There is no point in being polite on the internet. It is a waste of everybody's time.

7) It is best if you can meet the girl withing 4-5 days of initial contact maximum. Best to meet her next day after contact, or even the same day although this is rare due to traffic/logistical complications. Girls tend to lose interest fairly quickly... or have found somebody else already... if you cannot meet them within a short time. It is a matter of taste, but I prefer going into a date without having prepared the field too much. I like to leave much open, some mystery. If you spend months communicating and then only want to meet her once or twice for sex, how effective is that? And what expectations will she have? You may actually hurt your chance for quick sex if she is looking for something more serious.

8) Girls who are in love with themselves, i.e. have about 80 pictures posted, are often just entertaining themselves and enjoying the attention they get. They are often the least likely to actually want to meet. Same goes for girls who are TOO flirty. They are often just playing.

9) Be realistic... Russia is a man's playground however 18-year old superhotties (8-10 category) are very popular and drown in attention. Some of my gfs were getting 500 messages a day. It is not easy to bag one of these. The "above average" 6-8 type are more realistic prey.

10) The numbers game is your friend. Do not concentrate on just one girl or "fall in love". Contact several, even a couple dozen. These will filter out over time to 5 or 6 solid candidates. Try to meet them all, even if for just a coffee. Soon you'll have 2 or 3 which are the most promising.

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Yes, my way is always verbal. I speak Russian fluently. I'm not too good at using dancing and body language in loud inviromnents.

All that said, what is TGIF?? Basically, can anyone suggest where I can chat up young (18-23) gorgeous girls in seemless, not too stressful atmosphere? I'm sure they congregate somewhere.

Many thanks for your advice.

Aibolit[/QUOTE]
TGIF is "Fridays", there are several of them in Moscow the most popular being the one on Pushkin Square and the one in Atrium shopping center near Kurskaya metro and across the street from Hot Dog aka CF aka Boarhouse.

It is a low-key place that serves American-style food and beer. Popular among 18-25-year old Russians and 30-50 year old expats. I've never picked up anybody there that I recall, but don't go there often.

There are many places to chat up girls, an alternative to clubs being cafes or public parks. One thing you will have to be able to do is approach girls brazenly. I know this is not your style, but if you can't approach people "cold" you won't have much chance. Girls at cafes are sitting with friends or if they are alone, are waiting for friends. Almost no female will be alone in a cafe. Same goes for public parks. It is ok to approach them when you are alone, even though I will admit it is easier with a wingman. Group dynamics. You can't be shy, the local guys aren't. Better to be funny, flirty or cute at the beginning and more direct later.

Some popular cafes include:
OGI (there are several of these student/alternative places with cheap food and drink)
Etazh (very popular one on corner of Tverskaya/Pushkin Square)
Kofe Haus (everywhere)
Shokoladinitsa (everywhere)
various sushi places (everywhere)

Popular centrally-located parks include:
Pushkin Square
Red Square
Manezhnaya Square

Other good bets are shopping centers. Popular ones include:
Manezhnaya (the underground one near Red Square)
Atrium
GUM
TSUM

Don't be afraid to crash and burn and don't let the occasional rude "defensive" response put you off. It happens. Most girls are actually really quite friendly if you approach them in a friendly way.

[QUOTE=Namster]
So my final questions would be place's to stay, any recommendations? , also which places to hit on 1st night of arrival, Avalon? , 112?
Thanks[/QUOTE]
You should check out the Kiev section for more current info. Generally speaking though, use apartments close to Kreshatik. Whether Maidan or Bessarbskaya PLoshad area is irrelevant in my opinion, both have their merits and are central.

112 is closed as far as I know but sucked anyway.

Street game is fun in Kiev, that plus internet, cafes and clubs.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]There are many places to chat up girls, an alternative to clubs being cafes or public parks.[/QUOTE]Also, and this may be a little counter-intuitive, but don't forget about church. Most of the people in church will be women, old women, but it's not unusual to meet a single young 20-something, or a 30ish divorcee, longing for some male companionship. Talk about letting their guard down... if they meet you in church, you must be a good guy, right? ;)

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Yes, my way is always verbal. I speak Russian fluently. I'm not too good at using dancing and body language in loud inviromnents.

All that said, what is TGIF?? Basically, can anyone suggest where I can chat up young (18-23) gorgeous girls in seemless, not too stressful atmosphere? I'm sure they congregate somewhere.

Many thanks for your advice.

Aibolit[/QUOTE]

Well, I defer to the experts, but I thought TGIF was a pretty good venue for me, and it may be for you as well. Here is a the tale of my little adventure there...

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=527566&postcount=962[/url]

When I was in Russia last year and in Moscow i saw at the RTR television Tochki under arrest by policemen, it seems that a lot of girl have been put at the policestation under the eyes of local mongers. There are a lot of streetwalkers in moscow but after these operations owned by police i think you will have just prostitution in apartments and brothels for Moscow. They don't speak about other cities so i think it's just a local operation.

Tochka the movie:

2006, 92 Minute Running Time
Topics: Coming of Age, Drama, Women
Program: World Cinema Now
Language: Russian English Sub-Titles

Three prostitutes eke out a desperate living in this harrowingly convincing portrait of Moscow’s brutal backstreets. Each has her own story and fitting reasons for abandoning her family. The film reflects the dog-eat-dog nature of the new Russian capitalism.

I just seen the film Tochka, really beautiful russian film no subtitle who explain you "tochka" system in russia :

Firstly ask to a taxi to send you at the tochka meeting point after your arrival you will see the mamasan (mamouchka) and after her signal all the girls will come and you will make your choice. Tochka is for the fest, you will drink with them and sex isn't mechanical, generally without condom you can fuck them bareback and they will sleep with you in the same bed. Please don't pay more than 150 € for a night.
"Tochka" (точка) is a popular euphemism for an outdoor market for prostitutes in Moscow and other large Russian cities, a word literally meaning 'point' or 'location' in Russian. (The word "tochka" may also be used in many other contexts. Its usage is originated from the notion "a point on the map". Initially it was used in military and geologist slang to denote, e.g., a military or geologist base or other specific location. Over time its usages was expanded. For example, in Soviet drunkards' parlance, a "tochka" is a place where vodka is sold.)

Some advice where to find girls.

1. Metro stations.There is so much traffic there that guaranteed you will see one hottie every 30 seconds.
2. Bus stations.Some are very conveniently located.Girls waiting for the bus are a thrill.You may have just half a minute to talk to her before the bus comes.

3. University campuses.The biggest collection of students.

4. Train stations.A lot of provincial girls.

5. Near toilets of big clubs.All the girls have to visit the toilet at least once.Guaranteed near toilets you will meet every hottie and most importantly without boyfriends or other obstacles.

6. Bazar.Lots of girls looking and shopping.Very easy to approach.
7. Shoping centers.Also very easy since girls are not on the move.However one needs to pay attention to shop owner as well.He may not like the idea that you distract his potential clients.

Toilets,train stations,metro stations and bazar are dirty game.You are not suppossed to be there.

The point is to be fast,changing always plans and choose the right concentrations of girls in the right time.You may lose a lay just because the train arrived one minute earlier.

Thank you for the very useful information Dr.

I agree with you about not being worried about a rejection or ten but what do russian women mean to say when they stick their tongue out at you.

Is that another way of telling me to beat it.

[QUOTE=Tone]Thank you for the very useful information Dr.

I agree with you about not being worried about a rejection or ten but what do russian women mean to say when they stick their tongue out at you.

Is that another way of telling me to beat it.[/QUOTE]
I've always assumed they were flirting with me and stuck my tongue out back at them. Conversation is easy after that.