Monterrey

Posting here opens you up to differing opinions. If you write something, expect to be commented upon. If you disagree with the rebuttal, than how about articulating your points of view with intelligent, well developed reasoning, and leave out the insults. And, by the way, before I am accused of targeting any one individual, the word "you" is being utilized in the general sense.

Any of us that can not read politely written, differing points of view, without responding with insults, should just refrain from commenting to begin with. It is a violation of the rules to insult others, and there should be swift and immediate consequences. If you have a different point of view, or you want to express your disagreement, then fine. But, why all the personal attacks?

So, to comment further...

Amigomio is not raining on anyone's parade concerning the definition of todo la noche. He merely pointed out that distinction to characterize the difference between Colombia, where todo la noche is todo la noche, and where one of the other poster's has significant experience, versus Monterrey.

I agree with Amigomio's goal, to help clarify what to expect within the context of a visitor's return to Monterrey. Girls DO NOT, as a general practice, offer todo la noche in Monterrey, period, certainly not for 1000 pesos. Where's the harm in pointing out that distinction?

The bottom line is, we are free to comment, and will do so when commentary is made on the site, regardless of who is making the commentary, responding with our opinions, and offering our perspectives, right along with everybody else.

We are not, ourselves, free to restrict the commentary of others, not even if we ourselves request that someone not comment on our posts. That's simply not the way it works.

If someone has a justifiable grievance, then it is addressable with Jackson. And, nobody, other than Jackson himself, will restrict us from making polite commentary in accordance with the published rules of this site, and even he, Jackson, is ethically bound by his own rules of engagement.

And, if any of us should get out of line with our comments, that person deserves to pay the ultimate price, and should, as some previously have. For my part, I resolve to make polite comments, and to offer my opinions in accordance with the rules of the site. But, they will always be comments based on all the postings of all the other contributors here.

If not, what good is it, other than to be reading one dominant individual's means by which to grandstand one and only one dictatorial opinion. And, so as not to be wrongfully and mistakenly accused of targeting anyone in particular, I am referring to "one dominant individual" in the theoretical, generic sense, and not as a specific reference to any one person.

Domination is not defined as the number, length, or range of comments offered. No, that is "participation." Domination is a blatant desire to restrict the commentary of others, and to rule the bandwidth through intimidation, insults, back biting, etc..., and to have little tolerance for the differing commentary or participation from others.

We need diversity of opinion, and a full range of commentary to glean the very best knowledge and range of perspective from the site that we can. Plus, it's more entertaining, and significantly more interesting, if others feel that they can post here unmolested as long as they make polite commentary.

With respect to Strip Clubs...the overall average cost is set not only by the individual girls, but also by the clubs. The salida costs vary anywhere from 350 pesos to 850 pesos for 1.5 - 2 hours. The salida prices can escalate even higher if you have GRINGO written across your forehead, and permit the bar to get away with charging you more.

Most girls charge between 600 pesos and 2000 pesos, depending on the girl and depending on her own self perceived worth. Truth is, I have had girls that cost me as little as 500 pesos that met me after their shifts, no bar fine, that were significantly more charming and enjoyable than the ones that cost 2000 pesos, and had a 1000 peso bar fine.

There are some girls that quote 5000 pesos. Personally, I wouldn't pay 5000 pesos to see Winged Pegasus. But, some girls think they're the sixth wonder of the world. Anyway, we're talking averages here, so...

The main difference in cost between the cost of girls in strip clubs versus MPs, is that you do not pay bar fines at MPs. The extra 350 to 850 pesos is not assessed at an MP like it is at the strip club in order to compensate the bar for opportunity cost lost when you take their employee out of commission for 1.5-2 hours. In addition, the cost is less because the time spent is typically less, between 45 minutes to one hour, tops, in an MP, versus 1.5-2 hours in a strip club salida.

As for todo la noche, it is almost unheard of on the Strip Club level, and never heard of on the MP level. The reality is, if you pay a salida to the bar, the bar demands that the girl return in the prescribed time. Most girls adhere to the prescribed time because their bosses demand it. So, even if a girl wanted to stay todo la noche, the likelihood is very remote that they would do so, because the boss says "be back here in no more than 2 hours or else."

If a girl stays todo la noche, you have caught her at the end of her shift, and she is putting the financial icing on the cake after having earned her full salary in the bar for the night, and she is off the clock.

However, it's very rare for a girl to stay todo la noche in Monterrey also because so many of them have kids. Most want to cut out asap so they can return home to their children. 95% of them will hold you to 2 hours even if you happened to meet them after their shift.

Now, if you can, through your own individual effort, convince her to stay longer, assuming you want her to stay longer, then your ahead, or not. Frankly, I know just as many guys that want them to leave sooner than later.

I've had them stay all night for 500 pesos, plus a 350 peso bar fine. I've had them leave with me after their shifts in the bar, stay todo la noche, and no bar fine. I've had them stay for 2 hours, 350 pesos for the bar fine, and 1000 pesos for the girl. If you live in or frequent Monterrey, you can do better if the stars are all in alignment.

However, for the one-time or infrequent visitor, 1350 pesos is the average cost for girl + bar fine, if you take them out of one of the lower end bars. Prices escalate from there in the medium to higher priced bars, mostly because the bar fine itself is higher.

Most girls in Monterrey will go for 1000 pesos for 2 hours regardless of whether they work in a lower end or medium level bar, and most girls working in the higher end bars are quite expensive in comparison, some charging 2000-3000 pesos. And, some maniacs are actually quoting as high as 5000 pesos.

In the MPs, the price is fixed, and there is no expertise at negotiation, no charm required whatsoever to achieve a better price. If they're offering an improved price, they're offering it to everybody. If you are a one-time or infrequent visitor to the MPs, it's more likely that you will be up-charged for anything and everything they can think of, removal of tops, kissing, BBBJ, etc...

In contrast, I have never been extorted with up charges by a strip club girl on salida, not even the worst of the lot.

I think 850 pesos is low compared to other clubs.

There are clubs that quote higher salida rates, like Harem is now quoting 1000 pesos as a barfine.

And Poisson is quoting 2000 pesos barfine.

They do this, of course, so everything is done the in-call way so the House gets all the money.

And yes, MPs do not offer out-calls, but there are exceptions of high class "casa de citas" like Misses and Models that offer both in-call and out-call.
But we are talking here 1,500-2000 pesos just for one hour, in-call.

Out-call is another story.



[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]With respect to Strip Clubs...the overall average cost is set not only by the individual girls, but also by the clubs. The salida costs vary anywhere from 350 pesos to 850 pesos for 1.5 - 2 hours. The salida prices can escalate even higher if you have GRINGO written across your forehead, and permit the bar to get away with charging you more.

Most girls charge between 600 pesos and 2000 pesos, depending on the girl and depending on her own self perceived worth. Truth is, I have had girls that cost me as little as 500 pesos that met me after their shifts, no bar fine, that were significantly more charming and enjoyable than the ones that cost 2000 pesos, and had a 1000 peso bar fine.

There are some girls that quote 5000 pesos. Personally, I wouldn't pay 5000 pesos to see Winged Pegasus. But, some girls think they're the sixth wonder of the world. Anyway, we're talking averages here, so...

The main difference in cost between the cost of girls in strip clubs versus MPs, is that you do not pay bar fines at MPs. The extra 350 to 850 pesos is not assessed at an MP like it is at the strip club in order to compensate the bar for opportunity cost lost when you take their employee out of commission for 1.5-2 hours. In addition, the cost is less because the time spent is typically less, between 45 minutes to one hour, tops, in an MP, versus 1.5-2 hours in a strip club salida.

As for todo la noche, it is almost unheard of on the Strip Club level, and never heard of on the MP level. The reality is, if you pay a salida to the bar, the bar demands that the girl return in the prescribed time. Most girls adhere to the prescribed time because their bosses demand it. So, even if a girl wanted to stay todo la noche, the likelihood is very remote that they would do so, because the boss says "be back here in no more than 2 hours or else."

If a girl stays todo la noche, you have caught her at the end of her shift, and she is putting the financial icing on the cake after having earned her full salary in the bar for the night, and she is off the clock.

However, it's very rare for a girl to stay todo la noche in Monterrey also because so many of them have kids. Most want to cut out asap so they can return home to their children. 95% of them will hold you to 2 hours even if you happened to meet them after their shift.

Now, if you can, through your own individual effort, convince her to stay longer, assuming you want her to stay longer, then your ahead, or not. Frankly, I know just as many guys that want them to leave sooner than later.

I've had them stay all night for 500 pesos, plus a 350 peso bar fine. I've had them leave with me after their shifts in the bar, stay todo la noche, and no bar fine. I've had them stay for 2 hours, 350 pesos for the bar fine, and 1000 pesos for the girl. If you live in or frequent Monterrey, you can do better if the stars are all in alignment.

However, for the one-time or infrequent visitor, 1350 pesos is the average cost for girl + bar fine, if you take them out of one of the lower end bars. Prices escalate from there in the medium to higher priced bars, mostly because the bar fine itself is higher.

Most girls in Monterrey will go for 1000 pesos for 2 hours regardless of whether they work in a lower end or medium level bar, and most girls working in the higher end bars are quite expensive in comparison, some charging 2000-3000 pesos. And, some maniacs are actually quoting as high as 5000 pesos.

In the MPs, the price is fixed, and there is no expertise at negotiation, no charm required whatsoever to achieve a better price. If they're offering an improved price, they're offering it to everybody. If you are a one-time or infrequent visitor to the MPs, it's more likely that you will be up-charged for anything and everything they can think of, removal of tops, kissing, BBBJ, etc...

In contrast, I have never been extorted with up charges by a strip club girl on salida, not even the worst of the lot.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I was shocked recently to hear that Bahamas is charging 1000 pesos for a bar fine...MUST I reiterate....BAHAMAS! You add another 1000 pesos for the girl, and your getting up there.

And, because of the house increasing the bar fines lately, it seems that the girls are sometimes feeling the pinch, offering their services at a slightly lower rate to make up for the increase in bar fine, they realizing that they will never get "out" if they don't balance out the damages somehow.

And, lets not forget that services are also offered on-site at most of the clubs. I remember asking recently at Pasarelas, and being told it was something like 850 pesos for a half hour of full service there. 850 PESOS? For Pasarelas??? Truth is, several places have recently quoted on site services to me, and I just tune them out after hearing the numbers...completely forgetting even what was specifically said so as not to clutter my mind with such drivel.

And get this, when a financial "crisis" strikes, the clubs do not seem to adopt a business model of lowering prices to attract more paying clients, thereby increasing cash flow. No, the clubs have an opposite strategy, one that I have never quite been able to understand, but they do it anyway. That's right, they raise the prices with this delusional expectation that they will make up profitability on what paying clients they do still have coming in by fleecing as many as will tolerate it.

Personally, it may be the case that prices are going down in the MPs...I don't know. I swore them off a long time ago. But, generally speaking, I am seeing a slight trend up, not down, with respect to salida costs in the strip clubs, and it mostly has to do with bar fine costs. But, even as there are some girls coming off price to make up the difference, there are just as many quoting higher prices than one might expect to pay just two years ago.

So, if you take the strip clubs out of the mix, and all you have left are the MPs, whether they be high end, low end, mid level...doesn't matter. Believe me, compared to the notorious venues of the World, they are a huge disappointment on ALL FRONTS! Quality of selection, lack of todo la noche, bait and switch tactics, time being cut short, up-sell extortionistic tactics, high price in comparison for literally a 20th of the time, etc...

Believe me, anybody that has frequented the notorious venues of the World would be totally and completely appalled being limited to only the services found in the MPs of Monterrey, and the strip clubs are not much better in comparison. We that frequent Monterrey do so because of logistics, primarily. Some is better than none, and NONE is the USA. So...

Not trying to start a fight, but anybody that's been around will tell you the same thing. So, when guys indicate that they are coming to Monterrey, and they have knowledge of the more notorious venues, I don't want them pointing a finger at my post and thinking that I was full of BS in recommending they're going to be having a great time in comparison to what they're used to.

It simply does not compare, and I would feel disingenuous in recommending to them otherwise. I prefer to set them up for realistic expectations so they can come and enjoy what Monterrey does have to offer without feeling they were led down some prim rose path by my comments.


[QUOTE=Amigomio]I think 850 pesos is low compared to other clubs.

There are clubs that quote higher salida rates, like Harem is now quoting 1000 pesos as a barfine.

And Poisson is quoting 2000 pesos barfine.

They do this, of course, so everything is done the in-call way so the House gets all the money.

And yes, MPs do not offer out-calls, but there are exceptions of high class "casa de citas" like Misses and Models that offer both in-call and out-call.
But we are talking here 1,500-2000 pesos just for one hour, in-call.

Out-call is another story.[/QUOTE]

USB says: "a financial crisis".

Let me point out that this crisis is not ours.
It does not originate within Mexican boundaries.

It is the US of A 100%

If someone is really going to get the blunt of crisis is the US, not us.

We were screwed long time ago back in 1994 when we had our credit bubble blow on us.

And we came out of that one pretty clean. You know why? Because real estate does NOT go down in Mexico.
Crisis or no crisis it never goes down, so the value just keeps going up.

Even when talking of homes and buldings that might be 10, 20 years old.

So this time the US is getting the short end of the stick, not us.

Of course many workers have lost their jobs here in Mexico, but last time the companies just shut down and dissapeared.
Right now they are there, waiting to jump into the coat tails when the US starts to go up again.
Like for example, GM is expanding operations thanks to the "clunkers" rebate in the US.
Car sales are better over there, jobs are starting to go up in Mexico.

In the meanwhile, the clubs are going full steam ahead.
We as regular folk are still going to the US for shopping.
Laredo, The Rio Grande Valley, specially McAllen, Texas and South Padre Island would be dead if not for us during this crisis even with a 20% depreciation of the Peso Vs the Dollar.

But no USB, sorry to tell you, no financial crisis in Mexico this time around.

Blame the US for your troubles... yeah, us too, we are blaming the US for our problems.



[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Yeah, I was shocked recently to hear that Bahamas is charging 1000 pesos for a bar fine...MUST I reiterate....BAHAMAS! You add another 1000 pesos for the girl, and your getting up there.

And, because of the house increasing the bar fines lately, it seems that the girls are sometimes feeling the pinch, offering their services at a slightly lower rate to make up for the increase in bar fine, they realizing that they will never get "out" if they don't balance out the damages somehow.

And, lets not forget that services are also offered on-site at most of the clubs. I remember asking recently at Pasarelas, and being told it was something like 850 pesos for a half hour of full service there. 850 PESOS? For Pasarelas??? Truth is, several places have recently quoted on site services to me, and I just tune them out after hearing the numbers...completely forgetting even what was specifically said so as not to clutter my mind with such drivel.

And get this, when a financial "crisis" strikes, the clubs do not seem to adopt a business model of lowering prices to attract more paying clients, thereby increasing cash flow. No, the clubs have an opposite strategy, one that I have never quite been able to understand, but they do it anyway. That's right, they raise the prices with this delusional expectation that they will make up profitability on what paying clients they do still have coming in by fleecing as many as will tolerate it.

Personally, it may be the case that prices are going down in the MPs...I don't know. I swore them off a long time ago. But, generally speaking, I am seeing a slight trend up, not down, with respect to salida costs in the strip clubs, and it mostly has to do with bar fine costs. But, even as there are some girls coming off price to make up the difference, there are just as many quoting higher prices than one might expect to pay just two years ago.

So, if you take the strip clubs out of the mix, and all you have left are the MPs, whether they be high end, low end, mid level...doesn't matter. Believe me, compared to the notorious venues of the World, they are a huge disappointment on ALL FRONTS! Quality of selection, lack of todo la noche, bait and switch tactics, time being cut short, up-sell extortionistic tactics, high price in comparison for literally a 20th of the time, etc...

Believe me, anybody that has frequented the notorious venues of the World would be totally and completely appalled being limited to only the services found in the MPs of Monterrey, and the strip clubs are not much better in comparison. We that frequent Monterrey do so because of logistics, primarily. Some is better than none, and NONE is the USA. So...

Not trying to start a fight, but anybody that's been around will tell you the same thing. So, when guys indicate that they are coming to Monterrey, and they have knowledge of the more notorious venues, I don't want them pointing a finger at my post and thinking that I was full of BS in recommending they're going to be having a great time in comparison to what they're used to.

It simply does not compare, and I would feel disingenuous in recommending to them otherwise. I prefer to set them up for realistic expectations so they can come and enjoy what Monterrey does have to offer without feeling they were led down some prim rose path by my comments.[/QUOTE]

well, we disagree as to whether there is a worldwide financial crisis that effects mexico or not. truth is the financial "crisis" is worldwide, and does effect mexico.

if you're saying that the effect of the us financial crisis has an effect on the worldwide economy, then i agree with that. but, to say that mexico has no affects from the us crisis is not accurate.

i have conducted a highly scientific poll...a poll of bar girls, all of them harvard graduates, they graduating magnum .357 "cum loud hey," and they all tell me that they're experiencing the mexico "crisis" on their level. they all tell me how their business is way down. we all know that the majority of their business is derived from mexicanos, not norte americanos. so, according to each and every one of the girls i talk to, their business is noticeably down, and they are enduring the effects of their own crisis. i may have mis-characterized mexico's current economic decline as a "crisis" per se, but mexico is still feeling a powerful recession none the less.

so, if your real estate industry is still strong, then that's a bright spot. in my particular area of the us, the real estate prices for most properties are not down by huge amounts compared to florida, nevada, california, etc...so, not every part of the us is so economically devastated with respect to real estate values dropping as some other parts of the country.

interestingly, in the us, you can not build a home for significantly less than what you might have expected to pay for it several years ago. so, in my opinion, the real estate "crisis" is an over correction brought on by a confidence failure in the overall us economy. so, assuming that the real estate values are actually devalued right now, their true value is not currently reflected, just as their true value was not accurately reflected prior to the us economic crisis occurring.

and, lets face it, our us real estate values were hugely inflated before, and perhaps real estate values in mexico were not over the course of the last several years, thereby avoiding a huge adjustment of values in mexico, and avoiding a real estate crisis in mexico as compared to the usa.

each of our industries can be analyzed separately, and should be, in order to know the true extent of the "crisis" for each. but, in my own industry, there most certainly is a "crisis." and, mine is a huge part of the us economy, with many businesses are off as much as 50% compared to two years ago.

but to the disagreement at hand...when i talk to my mexico counterparts within my same industry, they tell me that they are experiencing as sharp a decline in revenues as their us counterparts. these are mexican nationals i'm dealing with, residents of monterrey, with businesses that are based in mexico, mostly selling to other mexican based businesses, owned in large part by mexicanos.

the bright spot for visitors from the usa is that we get a lot more mexican pesos for our us dollars these days. this seemed to coincidentally occur just during the last year or so, and coincidentally, just as the decline in economic activity began, during the "crisis," which amigomio says does not exist in mexico. that suggests that there is something financial going on in mexico compared to two years ago, thankfully. better to be in it together, yes? :-)

in china, literally, by far the most wildly expanding economy in the world, energy consumption is significantly down, and the chinese are feeling huge declines in economic activity within their manufacturing sector.

so, see, there is a worldwide financial crisis, and it does effect everyone, including mexico.

now, granted, these effects may be the cause of the crooked bastards in the us banking industry fleecing not only the people of the us but also economic investors worldwide, and the us governments complicit behavior over the last few years in not properly regulating what i perceive as illegal and unethical activities perpetrated by those sobs. but, regardless of who caused it, it still has a huge effect on the entire worldwide economy.

once that domino starts to fall, the entire world falls with it, including mexico. actually, especially mexico, which is so closely tied to the us economy.

just as obama, ,whose policies i am for the most part significantly opposed to concerning fiscal responsibility, said in a speech to the united nations recently..."other nations of the world can no longer castigate the u.s. as a go-it-alone bully while still demanding it cure all ills." probably one of the the only things i agree with him on.

it is always the fault of the usa, but the usa is the first country every other country calls upon for help in times of trouble, and gets it. the usa never gets the credit for what good it does do, good that far out weighs the negative. the usa only gets the blame for causing all the world's problems, or not doing even more than it already does, while already exceeding every other nations efforts by a huge margin, every time, all the while as other countries are virtually silent or hiding from their responsibilities. the world's only superpower will always be the easiest target. i am curious were the country of china to assume that similar distinction some day, whether the countries of the world would rely so heavily upon it for help, or whether fear would replace the animosity of attitudes endured by the usa from other countries for its unappreciated benevolence these days.

see, amigomio and i disagree all the time. but, people can remain friends and disagree. disagreement is not disrespect.



[quote=amigomio]usb says: "a financial crisis".

let me point out that this crisis is not ours.
it does not originate within mexican boundaries.

it is the us of a 100%

if someone is really going to get the blunt of crisis is the us, not us.

we were screwed long time ago back in 1994 when we had our credit bubble blow on us.

and we came out of that one pretty clean. you know why? because real estate does not go down in mexico.
crisis or no crisis it never goes down, so the value just keeps going up.

even when talking of homes and buldings that might be 10, 20 years old.

so this time the us is getting the short end of the stick, not us.

of course many workers have lost their jobs here in mexico, but last time the companies just shut down and dissapeared.
right now they are there, waiting to jump into the coat tails when the us starts to go up again.
like for example, gm is expanding operations thanks to the "clunkers" rebate in the us.
car sales are better over there, jobs are starting to go up in mexico.

in the meanwhile, the clubs are going full steam ahead.
we as regular folk are still going to the us for shopping.
laredo, the rio grande valley, specially mcallen, texas and south padre island would be dead if not for us during this crisis even with a 20% depreciation of the peso vs the dollar.

but no usb, sorry to tell you, no financial crisis in mexico this time around.

blame the us for your troubles... yeah, us too, we are blaming the us for our problems.[/quote]

one problem with my friend usb is that he believes everything the club girls tell him.

i never pay attention to them... i hear, but it comes in one side, and out the other.

besides, business is bad as long as it is bad to that specific girl or girl in turn.
that has always been their eternal lament.

come on! look at infinito expanding to a 3 ring circus, and hell, it is always full... and we are talking working class patrons here.

tangalay? partenon????

right now, it is business as always with it's regular cycles.
everytime that september comes, as it always do, it changes the face of the clubs.

come september, girls that worked from january thru summer, might have to change their working habits at the clubs or stop them at all due to their school agenda.

it has always been like that: september thru october-november, some clubs will feel the blunt of the girls leaving, none coming in and clients stop going cause they have to adapt their children school schedule.

besides a severe cataclysim happened en august that hurt the business horribly, worse than any crisis.

total smoking ban everywhere.

usb wasn't here when that happened. clubs like prestige, obsession that have an afternoon shift were deserted, devoid of customers.

night shift clubs like harem, pasarelas and casino had atendency drop 80%.

it's all in a state of recup, but this is weird because clubs like prestige, harem are not working class clubs, the customers are middle up caste, so they are not used to taking orders (not even a law) that orders them to forget doing what they consider an act of pleasure (yes smoking).
so they stop going in protest.

working class clubs, like partenon, tangalay, infinito, it's the opposite. their patrons are used to taking orders, so they obeyed the no smoking ban without a tweet.

anyway, and i have always told usb this, a club is good for him if he finds the girls he likes, which is wrong.
he never sees a club with objective taste, cause his tastes are different from the local patrons.

and crisis-wise usb didn't get the point.

this time in mexico, guys with money did not get hurt.
they still have the money.
there is still business in hold, waiting to pick up.
usb doesn't get this part cause it's the first time the us get caught in a crisis this big.
he sees it as "worldwide", yes, but started by the us. it didn't come out of the blue all over the world.

this time everyone got hurt in the us, even the rich and famous and it's going to leave some deep, deep scars in the american society.

look at some of the effects it has done: a highly publisized news bit where women are going to work at the cathouses of nevada cause either they have no jobs or they lost them.

the news carring this means that the spillover is so big that it's noticable.
yes, it's to obvious: american woman more than ever are turning into prostitution to get money to survive.

i remember the news bit, the girl says "i will be here for 6 months till things estabilize and then i'll look for normal work"

yeah, right... where have i heard that before?
here at the clubs and those girls are still working there.

again, in the us, poverty will be more noticable, and the definition of "rich" will change.
you will no longer admire the "true rich", you will scoff at them and blame them of the faliure of the us, making them isolate themselves from society and only move around with heavy armed escorts and bodyguards.

just wait a couple of years and you'll understand.









[quote=unospongebob]well, we disagree as to whether there is a worldwide financial crisis that effects mexico or not. truth is the financial "crisis" is worldwide, and does effect mexico.

if you're saying that the effect of the us financial crisis has an effect on the worldwide economy, then i agree with that. but, to say that mexico has no affects from the us crisis is not accurate.

i have conducted a highly scientific poll...a poll of bar girls, all of them harvard graduates, they graduating magnum .357 "cum loud hey," and they all tell me that they're experiencing the mexico "crisis" on their level. they all tell me how their business is way down. we all know that the majority of their business is derived from mexicanos, not norte americanos. so, according to each and every one of the girls i talk to, their business is noticeably down, and they are enduring the effects of their own crisis. i may have mis-characterized mexico's current economic decline as a "crisis" per se, but mexico is still feeling a powerful recession none the less.

so, if your real estate industry is still strong, then that's a bright spot. in my particular area of the us, the real estate prices for most properties are not down by huge amounts compared to florida, nevada, california, etc...so, not every part of the us is so economically devastated with respect to real estate values dropping as some other parts of the country.

interestingly, in the us, you can not build a home for significantly less than what you might have expected to pay for it several years ago. so, in my opinion, the real estate "crisis" is an over correction brought on by a confidence failure in the overall us economy. so, assuming that the real estate values are actually devalued right now, their true value is not currently reflected, just as their true value was not accurately reflected prior to the us economic crisis occurring.

and, lets face it, our us real estate values were hugely inflated before, and perhaps real estate values in mexico were not over the course of the last several years, thereby avoiding a huge adjustment of values in mexico, and avoiding a real estate crisis in mexico as compared to the usa.

each of our industries can be analyzed separately, and should be, in order to know the true extent of the "crisis" for each. but, in my own industry, there most certainly is a "crisis." and, mine is a huge part of the us economy, with many businesses are off as much as 50% compared to two years ago.

but to the disagreement at hand...when i talk to my mexico counterparts within my same industry, they tell me that they are experiencing as sharp a decline in revenues as their us counterparts. these are mexican nationals i'm dealing with, residents of monterrey, with businesses that are based in mexico, mostly selling to other mexican based businesses, owned in large part by mexicanos.

the bright spot for visitors from the usa is that we get a lot more mexican pesos for our us dollars these days. this seemed to coincidentally occur just during the last year or so, and coincidentally, just as the decline in economic activity began, during the "crisis," which amigomio says does not exist in mexico. that suggests that there is something financial going on in mexico compared to two years ago, thankfully. better to be in it together, yes? :-)

in china, literally, by far the most wildly expanding economy in the world, energy consumption is significantly down, and the chinese are feeling huge declines in economic activity within their manufacturing sector.

so, see, there is a worldwide financial crisis, and it does effect everyone, including mexico.

now, granted, these effects may be the cause of the crooked bastards in the us banking industry fleecing not only the people of the us but also economic investors worldwide, and the us governments complicit behavior over the last few years in not properly regulating what i perceive as illegal and unethical activities perpetrated by those sobs. but, regardless of who caused it, it still has a huge effect on the entire worldwide economy.

once that domino starts to fall, the entire world falls with it, including mexico. actually, especially mexico, which is so closely tied to the us economy.

just as obama, ,whose policies i am for the most part significantly opposed to concerning fiscal responsibility, said in a speech to the united nations recently..."other nations of the world can no longer castigate the u.s. as a go-it-alone bully while still demanding it cure all ills." probably one of the the only things i agree with him on.

it is always the fault of the usa, but the usa is the first country every other country calls upon for help in times of trouble, and gets it. the usa never gets the credit for what good it does do, good that far out weighs the negative. the usa only gets the blame for causing all the world's problems, or not doing even more than it already does, while already exceeding every other nations efforts by a huge margin, every time, all the while as other countries are virtually silent or hiding from their responsibilities. the world's only superpower will always be the easiest target. i am curious were the country of china to assume that similar distinction some day, whether the countries of the world would rely so heavily upon it for help, or whether fear would replace the animosity of attitudes endured by the usa from other countries for its unappreciated benevolence these days.

see, amigomio and i disagree all the time. but, people can remain friends and disagree. disagreement is not disrespect.[/quote]

Well, the thing you're not considering is that the entire third stage at El Infinito is the former stage of Givenchi. And, El Infinito owns the building, so it cost them nothing to knock out a wall.

They have so many extra waiters, just on the Infinito side, that they did not need any new additional personnel to staff the old Givenchi "space."

So, the reality is, any additional business being realized at El Infinito is merely taking up of the huge void left by two closed Givenchis, one of which was becoming quite busy in its formative months of operation, which would have been prior to the "crisis."

I think that El Infinito is the model of success for all clubs in its category to follow. Some clubs are going in that direction, and becoming more successful as a result, ie: Parthenon. It is the success of their business plan that makes them successful, so they are busy in down times. But, not all clubs in Monterrey are flourishing.

The economy in Mexico is not expanding, but contracting as the World turns from Mexico to China for goods and services.

If you were to statistically poll all the clubs in the city, I suspect there is an average decline in business overall compared to two years ago. You can't single out just El Infinito and assume that all are doing as well as they did two years ago. El Infinito is "THE" success story in Monterrey. They are to be congratulated on implementing a successful business plan, but it has little to do with the Mexican economy.

And, yes, there will always be "The Rich" Worldwide. But, even the rich are seeing massive declines in their fortunes, and that includes the majority of the rich in Mexico. Now, certainly, it does not impact their life styles, but it is having an effect, which can be partially observed in an escalating unemployment rate, not only in Mexico, but across the World, including the USA.

As for many more women going to work in the "life" right here in the USA. It would certainly be refreshing to have such a scenario available everywhere in the USA, and at similiar prices to Mexico. But, to have more of them in Nevada...well, it's meaningless to me. Costs as much to fly to Nevada as to Mexico. Besides, whom among us wants a Gringa anyway.

Monterrey style fun in the USA???? Nawww, never happen :-( Stop taunting us :-)

[QUOTE=Amigomio]One problem with my friend USB is that he believes everything the club girls tell him.

I never pay attention to them... I hear, but it comes in one side, and out the other.

Besides, business is bad as long as it is bad to that specific girl or girl in turn.
That has always been their eternal lament.

Come on! Look at Infinito expanding to a 3 ring circus, and hell, it is always full... and we are talking working class patrons here.

Tangalay? Partenon????

Right now, it is business as always with it's regular cycles.
Everytime that September comes, as it always do, it changes the face of the clubs.

Come September, girls that worked from January thru summer, might have to change their working habits at the clubs or stop them at all due to their school agenda.

It has always been like that: September thru October-November, some clubs will feel the blunt of the girls leaving, none coming in and clients stop going cause they have to adapt their children school schedule.

Besides a severe cataclysim happened en August that hurt the business horribly, worse than any crisis.

Total smoking ban everywhere.

USB wasn't here when that happened. Clubs like Prestige, Obsession that have an afternoon shift were deserted, devoid of customers.

Night shift clubs like Harem, Pasarelas and Casino had atendency drop 80%.

It's all in a state of recup, but this is weird because clubs like Prestige, Harem are not working class clubs, the customers are middle up caste, so they are not used to taking orders (not even a law) that orders them to forget doing what they consider an act of pleasure (yes smoking).
So they stop going in protest.

Working class clubs, like Partenon, Tangalay, Infinito, it's the opposite. Their patrons are used to taking orders, so they obeyed the no smoking ban without a tweet.

Anyway, and I have always told USB this, a club is good for him if he finds the girls he likes, which is wrong.
He never sees a club with objective taste, cause his tastes are different from the local patrons.

And crisis-wise USB didn't get the point.

This time in Mexico, guys with money did not get hurt.
They still have the money.
There is still business in hold, waiting to pick up.
USB doesn't get this part cause it's the first time the US get caught in a crisis this big.
He sees it as "worldwide", yes, but started by the US. It didn't come out of the blue all over the world.

This time everyone got hurt in the US, even the rich and famous and it's going to leave some deep, deep scars in the American society.

Look at some of the effects it has done: A highly publisized news bit where women are going to work at the cathouses of Nevada cause either they have no jobs or they lost them.

The news carring this means that the spillover is so big that it's noticable.
Yes, it's to obvious: American woman more than ever are turning into prostitution to get money to survive.

I remember the news bit, the girl says "I will be here for 6 months till things estabilize and then I'll look for normal work"

Yeah, right... where have I heard that before?
Here at the clubs and those girls are still working there.

Again, in the US, poverty will be more noticable, and the definition of "rich" will change.
You will no longer admire the "true rich", you will scoff at them and blame them of the faliure of the US, making them isolate themselves from society and only move around with heavy armed escorts and bodyguards.

Just wait a couple of years and you'll understand.[/QUOTE]

"But, even the rich are seeing massive declines in their fortunes, and that includes the majority of the rich in Mexico"

Nonononononono!!!!

You are so wrong here.
Don't mix oil and water here.

There are the "rich" and the RICH.

You are mixing the people that make a fortune based on comercial enterprises, so called succes stories AND the guys that are just plain totally rich.

They are the ones that get rich during an economic bonanza and the same that still are rich during an economic downturn and will get richer when everything goes up.

For example, in Mexico we have the richest man in the world, Carlos Slim owner of the monopoly Telmex, so rich, he has the power not to appear in Forbes Magazine.
He appeared one year on the top and the next he's off the list.

How he did that? Because he has the money to do it.

No my friend.

In Mexico, contrarty to the US, many of the monopolistic companies are owned by one person, no board of directors, no CEO, no nothing,
Plain fat owner.

Of those, we have said Carlos Slim, Ricardo Salinas Pliego that owns TV Azteca and Emilio Azcarraga that owns Televisa.

Those guys are getting richer by the second, but losing pesos from their fortunes???
Never.

The US has lost those kind of rich guys.
The guys on Forbes are rich cause they get a high salary, high commisions, and net worth of a company that depends on many factors.

In Mexico, they control those factors... they OWN the factors.

Don't mix the rich with the RICH.
Those, the RICH, you don't hear or see them at all.





[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Well, the thing you're not considering is that the entire third stage at El Infinito is the former stage of Givenchi. And, El Infinito owns the building, so it cost them nothing to knock out a wall.

They have so many extra waiters, just on the Infinito side, that they did not need any new additional personnel to staff the old Givenchi "space."

So, the reality is, any additional business being realized at El Infinito is merely taking up of the huge void left by two closed Givenchis, one of which was becoming quite busy in its formative months of operation, which would have been prior to the "crisis."

I think that El Infinito is the model of success for all clubs in its category to follow. Some clubs are going in that direction, and becoming more successful as a result, ie: Parthenon. It is the success of their business plan that makes them successful, so they are busy in down times. But, not all clubs in Monterrey are flourishing.

The economy in Mexico is not expanding, but contracting as the World turns from Mexico to China for goods and services.

If you were to statistically poll all the clubs in the city, I suspect there is an average decline in business overall compared to two years ago. You can't single out just El Infinito and assume that all are doing as well as they did two years ago. El Infinito is "THE" success story in Monterrey. They are to be congratulated on implementing a successful business plan, but it has little to do with the Mexican economy.

And, yes, there will always be "The Rich" Worldwide. But, even the rich are seeing massive declines in their fortunes, and that includes the majority of the rich in Mexico. Now, certainly, it does not impact their life styles, but it is having an effect, which can be partially observed in an escalating unemployment rate, not only in Mexico, but across the World, including the USA.

As for many more women going to work in the "life" right here in the USA. It would certainly be refreshing to have such a scenario available everywhere in the USA, and at similiar prices to Mexico. But, to have more of them in Nevada...well, it's meaningless to me. Costs as much to fly to Nevada as to Mexico. Besides, whom among us wants a Gringa anyway.

Monterrey style fun in the USA???? Nawww, never happen :-( Stop taunting us :-)[/QUOTE]

[b][color=red]It is a cycle that started with NAFTA , USA to Mexico in the early 1990's. China has been a shaker and mover since reclaiming Hong Kong. China has strong parternership relationship with Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran and many others. Lowest cost producer to a world producer.
China has shifted production to Vietnam, Cambodia and Loas.

Vincent Fox the past President of Mexico saw the trend and noted Mexico is no match to China in labor, material and skill.

Now American's notice China. A real red Dragon.
US owes China three tillion dollars plus interest. Amount that is growing.

Warren Buffett or Bill Gates is no match for the Mexican rich.

The US legal system controls what "fun means." [/b][/color]

[QUOTE=UnospongeBob][b][color=green]The economy in Mexico is not expanding, but contracting as the World turns from Mexico to China for goods and services.

Monterrey style fun in the USA???? Nawww, never happen :-( Stop taunting us :-)[/b][/color][/QUOTE]

Hola,

I agree with all of what you said...And, it truly is enjoyable to see another contributor participate. Your post was so "colorful," it woke me up from a self induced hypnotic stuper :-)))

My only clarification is that both Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are richer than what's his name...uh, the Mexicano....uhhh, oh yeah, "Skim" Pickings, something like that. But, admittedly, Slim would have much more effective buying power. So, practically speaking, he is probably richer, granted...

But, more importantly, of the 106 richest billionaires in the World, the United States boasts 38% of that number, while Mexico boasts only .0188679% of that number, meaning TWO...that is Slim something, uhhhh, I'll get it right, Carlos Slim Helú...that's him, and Alberto Bailleres is the second richest Mexicano...but way, way down the list.

The United States dominates the World in the Richest Number of Billionaires out of a total 106 Billionaires. And, statistically, the US has quite a few more of the richest billionaires than any other country represented, the next of which I believe might have been Germany, India, France, the UK. But, all of them significantly under represented in comparison to the USA.

My source...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_billionaires_%282009%29#cite_note-heirs-5[/url]

Ain't the Internet grand! I would have never known this stuff without it.



[QUOTE=Sound7][b][color=red]It is a cycle that started with NAFTA , USA to Mexico in the early 1990's. China has been a shaker and mover since reclaiming Hong Kong. China has strong parternership relationship with Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran and many others. Lowest cost producer to a world producer.
China has shifted production to Vietnam, Cambodia and Loas.

Vincent Fox the past President of Mexico saw the trend and noted Mexico is no match to China in labor, material and skill.

Now American's notice China. A real red Dragon.
US owes China three tillion dollars plus interest. Amount that is growing.

Warren Buffett or Bill Gates is no match for the Mexican rich.

The US legal system controls what "fun means." [/b][/color][/QUOTE]

[b][color=red]I hear what you are indicating.

Warren Buffett is a front for the Chinese party. Warren invest 3 billion as preferred stock holder at 10% annual return in GE. Heard of 10% return in 2009 ? The GE stock drops by 45%.

Yesterday, according to SEC rules he has a major stock holding in a major Chinese Men clothing company. He has given up on America but he knows how to suck the taxpayer's money. AIG one of his x-holding company. Man from Nebraska is a true Chinese showman in gringo colors. Keep an eye on him.

Chinese party has $3 tillions IOU from the US Federal Reserve. I am sorry to bring this to you attention. Dollar will skid againt the Yuan as it has done so in the last 12 years unofficially. Pesos will stay about the same for this year.

US is interested in sending farming product cultivation which are labor intensitive back to Mexico & SA. California central will feel it first than the Imperial Valley. Starting with tomatoes. Watch as happens. as it has already started.

Rich Mexicans know how to please the US. Monoply or drug cartel as long as it does not impact US Congress everything is :cool:

OB's time is out. He has lost the democratic momentum. He is now just a Bushee

Brazil. 2016 Olymics. Friday is the day for the results.

Viva Lula.[/color][/b]

GOLD is the short term answer as the dollar takes a dive...

As the borrowing continues, the political hacks mortgage the US just to make it seem like we're prosperous. They want to extend the bubble for their own self serving political interests, misleading the public into believing everything is just fine as we dig ourselves deeper into a hole each passing day.

To them, power is the only thing that matters, and they'll project whatever illusions are necessary to make the average unsuspecting and economically uneducated person return them to power in return for the promise of effortless security. That's how we got into this mess to begin with. It's not a matter of Donkeys or Elephants, Red or Blue...the fiscal policies are the same old ****.

I heard an interesting and actually amusing quote today from Margaret Thatcher. She said:

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”


[QUOTE=Sound7][b][color=red]I hear what you are indicating.

Warren Buffett is a front for the Chinese party. Warren invest 3 billion as preferred stock holder at 10% annual return in GE. Heard of 10% return in 2009 ? The GE stock drops by 45%.

Yesterday, according to SEC rules he has a major stock holding in a major Chinese Men clothing company. He has given up on America but he knows how to suck the taxpayer's money. AIG one of his x-holding company. Man from Nebraska is a true Chinese showman in gringo colors. Keep an eye on him.

Chinese party has $3 tillions IOU from the US Federal Reserve. I am sorry to bring this to you attention. Dollar will skid againt the Yuan as it has done so in the last 12 years unofficially. Pesos will stay about the same for this year.

US is interested in sending farming product cultivation which are labor intensitive back to Mexico & SA. California central will feel it first than the Imperial Valley. Starting with tomatoes. Watch as happens. as it has already started.

Rich Mexicans know how to please the US. Monoply or drug cartel as long as it does not impact US Congress everything is :cool:

OB's time is out. He has lost the democratic momentum. He is now just a Bushee

Brazil. 2016 Olymics. Friday is the day for the results.

Viva Lula.[/color][/b][/QUOTE]

This guy Sound7 is in just about every thread in the world. He likes to talk about big international socio, politico, economic issues.

The old guys in the China thread are afraid of him. They sound like a bunch of whiny little punks next to Sound 7.

[QUOTE=Sound7][b][color=red]I hear what you are indicating.

Warren Buffett is a front for the Chinese party. Warren invest 3 billion as preferred stock holder at 10% annual return in GE. Heard of 10% return in 2009 ? The GE stock drops by 45%.

Yesterday, according to SEC rules he has a major stock holding in a major Chinese Men clothing company. He has given up on America but he knows how to suck the taxpayer's money. AIG one of his x-holding company. Man from Nebraska is a true Chinese showman in gringo colors. Keep an eye on him.

Chinese party has $3 tillions IOU from the US Federal Reserve. I am sorry to bring this to you attention. Dollar will skid againt the Yuan as it has done so in the last 12 years unofficially. Pesos will stay about the same for this year.

US is interested in sending farming product cultivation which are labor intensitive back to Mexico & SA. California central will feel it first than the Imperial Valley. Starting with tomatoes. Watch as happens. as it has already started.

Rich Mexicans know how to please the US. Monoply or drug cartel as long as it does not impact US Congress everything is :cool:

OB's time is out. He has lost the democratic momentum. He is now just a Bushee

Brazil. 2016 Olymics. Friday is the day for the results.

Viva Lula.[/color][/b][/QUOTE]

Although speculating on currencies is even more of a manipulated proposition than the equity or bond markets(George Soros is known for single-handedly taking down the English Pound), Mexico's current problem appears to lie deeper than manipulation for profit. They have more structural issues, that relating to oil, their number one commodity.

[url]www.seekingalpha.com/article/157824-mexico-s-declining-oil-production-clarion-call-for-cantarell[/url]

I posted something relating to Mexico's oil problems last year(post#181 on the Mexico General Information thread) and, unfortunately for Mexico, things have taken a turn for the worse with their Cantarell cash cow, as graphed in the above-captioned link.

And things are not looking much better for their subordinate Chicontepec.

[url]www.petroleumworld.com/story09092918.htm[/url]

Since 40 percent of Mexico's entire government budget is financed directly from the Cantarell, things could get very sketchy here within the next six months if no viable replacement can be found and the well indeed runs dry at the end of 2010(the bond guys are generally the smartest in the room and will short the Pesos well before Dec. 2010).

[url]www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=340513&CategoryId=14091[/url]

If you think that the above economic data is bad, things will be far worse if the US and the rest of the world decide that Mexican bonds and its related currency will have no future value...as what happened here in 1994 and the Tequila Crisis. If the US can no longer buy oil from Mexico, in which they are currently our third largest supplier, exactly what would the US need Mexico for?

As for the conditions here relating to PFP, things are so great here, so much better than the previous three years that I have lived in Mexico, I just renewed my six month lease for another four months.

Are the women here desperate?

No.

Are they more accomodating?

Most definately. And probably more so in the near future.