Moscow

I've noticed the same thing too in my last few trips to Kiev. I've had a lot of one off fucks with the 25-35 year old set. I also get, 'yes, I would like to have a relationship with you. But if you do not want that then we will have sex once and that will be it'. I guess it's one good outcome from those Sex and the City re runs they show in the FSU.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]What Moscow has that Kiev is only now developing is a huge market of office sluts, girls 25-35, often already divorced once, who just want to have a good time. There isn't much effort besides charm required and thankfully little detachment stress.[/QUOTE]

Someone was looking for places to go in Kiev. For a first timer I suggest Arena and River Palace (seriously). Yes 112, is closed but there is already a new club in that spot. I didn't dislike 112 - but like Doc, having been to 111 it really couldn't compare. It had less to do with the actual clubs themselves then the time frame they operated. Kiev, pre Orange Revolution was a different place from what it is today. One good point for 112, it was a great place to meet semi pro's. And the rail up top was a good place to pick out targets, I think 109 could agree with that. ;) On a side - side note. Although I didn't like either club that was there I think it's sad that RnB became a Ukrainian cafeteria. Just another fixture of old school sexpat Kiev gone. But anyways, like Doc said if you are looking for some good info on Kiev just go to that forum.

About the ages in FSU.

Before USSR was dissolved in 1991 the majority of girls married before 20 years old and 90% of marriages were stable.Practically it meant that a girl would start fucking at 16-17,get a steady bf at 18 and then become pregnant after continuous fucking,so before 20 years old she would be married.It was essential to marry at an early age at that time because the party gave financial motivations to couples eg apartment,car etc(you would get them earlier since having to wait less),so all girls tended to marry at a very young age.

Remnant of this period is the sexual promiscuity of young girls who had(and have even sunconciously) the desire to become pregnant in order to tie the knot and get married.They knew if they had a lot of sex,pregnancy was very likely and so they set the goal to become pregnant through as much sex as possible(compare the lack of willingness of FSU girls even now to let their partners use condoms).

Things changed drastically after 1991.The reason was that the collapse of the system caused a definite lack of men able to support children.The benefits to couples provided by state vanished and the result was that girls although continued to have sex and marry early now tended to divorce in growing rates when they found that husband was unable to support the family.This led to a search for foreign men who were suppossedely better well off to keep family.

It was a golden time for foreigners because there was no competition at all.The local men had been condemned in women's minds as failures.So women tended to use their traditional weapons and open their legs to every foreign man to get pregnant and tie the knot.

Then they started learning some new for them things that there were Westerners who had done vasectomies,there were players,mongers and gradually started to change their game since they discovered how naive they were.Now they were prone to search for the foreigner with certain characteristics,the alpha foreigner.To be foreigner just did not guarantee anything any more by itself alone cause it may have meant that sb was just a player.

So we can divide the girls into some categories according to ages.

1. Girls who were at least 18 years old when the communism collapsed in 1991.
These girls are now 35 years old and above.This generation has all the features of USSR girls,sexual promiscuity in young age,early marriage,traditional roles and general conservatism after marriage.

2. Girls who were 17-23 years old when the economy collapsed in 1998.These girls experienced a lot of divorces because their husbands became unemployed in no time,so they were considered unreliable.They got the worst impression of local men and regard them as poor,alcooholic and unable to provide to families.These girls are now at the 27-33 age range.They are very hurt,have lived through many difficulties have usually kids and are very vulnerable.

3. Girls who were at least 18 years old when the economy started to revive in 2004-2005.These girls are career oriented,have a lot of ambitions,are selective,vigorous and try to get as much as possible.They know the game and their value very well and try to get the highest possible price for them.They have also a good opinion in general about their countrymen since many of the latter have become rich,so they are not as ready to fuck a foreigner even if he is exceptional.These girls play in another level.They are also used to foreigners and there are a lot of scammers among them.This generation is now at the 18-22 years old age and every year grows since economy expands as well.

These are roughly the divisions of age regarding sexual openess to foreigners according to the general macroeconomic environment in FSU.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

Does anyone have the Assorti phone # ?

I'm calling them from a cell phone and I can't get the #'s on the website to work

Thank you ALL for the useful advice of where to find non-pros. I'll do my best to follow it. I'll definitely try TGIF.

If, however, I'm not too successful to go the freebie way, what genre of paid pleasure will you guys recommend? Salons? Intimcity.ru? Tochkas? If you could support your recommendations, it would be great.

My preference is actually to see what I'm picking and have a choice ahead of time. My insistance is also NOT to overpay (I think that insistance would benefit all of us here).

So, any advice to a newbie? My only advantage, I feel, is that I can speak Russian. Aside from that, I'm at complete loss.

This forum has been just great. Thank you all, again, for the feedback.

Regards,

Aibolit

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Thank you ALL for the useful advice of where to find non-pros. I'll do my best to follow it. I'll definitely try TGIF.

If, however, I'm not too successful to go the freebie way, what genre of paid pleasure will you guys recommend? Salons? Intimcity.ru? Tochkas? If you could support your recommendations, it would be great.

My preference is actually to see what I'm picking and have a choice ahead of time. My insistance is also NOT to overpay (I think that insistance would benefit all of us here).

So, any advice to a newbie? My only advantage, I feel, is that I can speak Russian. Aside from that, I'm at complete loss.

This forum has been just great. Thank you all, again, for the feedback.

Regards,

Aibolit[/QUOTE]
Give TGIF a try, although it is in my opinion "just another bar" and not a place where super hotties hang out, even if I do admit a very doable crowd of 18-25 year old women do drop in occasionally, usually on their way to some place else. Could be a good place for some guys, just not for me. I should try harder... there are good ops to latch on.

If clubs aren't really your thing, you still may want to try "Karma Bar" which is still the expat club. It is crawling with Euros and Anglos, but quite cute girls go there too and it is more or less an "English-speaking" club... same is true with "Real McCoy" which is a bar featuring occasional live music and always featuring really drunk people. Scored at both on a few occasions, mostly 6-8s. These are places that many tourists or local expats go which can be annoying, but still can be fun and both are unpretentious.

A bit more upscale but popular with expats is "Fabrique", really quite a cool place.

If clubs aren't your thing, then forget the elite clubs like "Opera" or "Most". They'll intimidate the hell out of you.

Pros: If you want to see what you are picking face to face, there are really only 5 options:
Strip clubs (takeout): $$$$$
Night Flight: $$$$
Hot Dog: $$$
Tochka: $$$
Salons: $$

Principally Moscow offers everything that a monger cold possibly want.. but it is simply very expensive.

Like many, I don't do much mongering in Moscow anymore, since $200 (5000 rubles) is about my limit and that doesn't cut it at strip clubs or Night Flight... and at Hot Dog and tochkas it only gets you second tier.

Salons were never my thing in Moscow, but I may start exploring this more as it seems the cheapest way to get super hot pussy... but has the disadvantage of not being takeout.

Interesting thoughts Hecker, even though I think it is even more overanalytical than I sometimes am. )))
[QUOTE=Hecker]About the ages in FSU.

Before USSR was dissolved in 1991 the majority of girls married before 20 years old and 90% of marriages were stable.Practically it meant that a girl would start fucking at 16-17,get a steady bf at 18 and then become pregnant after continuous fucking,so before 20 years old she would be married.It was essential to marry at an early age at that time because the party gave financial motivations to couples eg apartment,car etc(you would get them earlier since having to wait less),so all girls tended to marry at a very young age.

Remnant of this period is the sexual promiscuity of young girls who had(and have even sunconciously) the desire to become pregnant in order to tie the knot and get married.They knew if they had a lot of sex,pregnancy was very likely and so they set the goal to become pregnant through as much sex as possible(compare the lack of willingness of FSU girls even now to let their partners use condoms).

Things changed drastically after 1991.The reason was that the collapse of the system caused a definite lack of men able to support children.The benefits to couples provided by state vanished and the result was that girls although continued to have sex and marry early now tended to divorce in growing rates when they found that husband was unable to support the family.This led to a search for foreign men who were suppossedely better well off to keep family.

It was a golden time for foreigners because there was no competition at all.The local men had been condemned in women's minds as failures.So women tended to use their traditional weapons and open their legs to every foreign man to get pregnant and tie the knot.

Then they started learning some new for them things that there were Westerners who had done vasectomies,there were players,mongers and gradually started to change their game since they discovered how naive they were.Now they were prone to search for the foreigner with certain characteristics,the alpha foreigner.To be foreigner just did not guarantee anything any more by itself alone cause it may have meant that sb was just a player.

So we can divide the girls into some categories according to ages.

1. Girls who were at least 18 years old when the communism collapsed in 1991.
These girls are now 35 years old and above.This generation has all the features of USSR girls,sexual promiscuity in young age,early marriage,traditional roles and general conservatism after marriage.

2. Girls who were 17-23 years old when the economy collapsed in 1998.These girls experienced a lot of divorces because their husbands became unemployed in no time,so they were considered unreliable.They got the worst impression of local men and regard them as poor,alcooholic and unable to provide to families.These girls are now at the 27-33 age range.They are very hurt,have lived through many difficulties have usually kids and are very vulnerable.

3. Girls who were at least 18 years old when the economy started to revive in 2004-2005.These girls are career oriented,have a lot of ambitions,are selective,vigorous and try to get as much as possible.They know the game and their value very well and try to get the highest possible price for them.They have also a good opinion in general about their countrymen since many of the latter have become rich,so they are not as ready to fuck a foreigner even if he is exceptional.These girls play in another level.They are also used to foreigners and there are a lot of scammers among them.This generation is now at the 18-22 years old age and every year grows since economy expands as well.

These are roughly the divisions of age regarding sexual openess to foreigners according to the general macroeconomic environment in FSU.
[/QUOTE]
Here are some generalizations and experiences as I see them, just for the sake of discussion.

35+: I've screwed a couple, most within a few hours of meeting them. OK to occasional very good fucks, but usually untrimmed bush and although thin, a bit undertoned. Didn't repeat. I don't think they really expected me to either. Classic bar pull one night stands and anonymous chat friend sex.

25-35: Generally easy if they are cute office employees looking for fun, they really like expats in general if they work for international companies, which many do in Moscow. Strangely enough though some of the simpler poorer girls will be surprisingly difficult, even the plain ones. They expect elaborate romantic dating and start spouting something about true love and husband and I just get annoyed. I never promise anything to girls just to get laid, I couldn't deal with the guilt. I'm weak that way. So I miss out on some ops.

21-25: Really the girls hottest age, they can also be the most difficult. They aren't as curiously naive and easy as 18-20 year olds sometimes are, as they have already had a serious boyfriend or two, gathered sexual experience and are looking to gain something for their advantage. The most common age for girls looking for sponsers. They can be played and had, but sometimes really not worth the effort. On the other hand, you will find a mix of late-bloomers or open-minded girls in this age group who can bring you to sexual paradise.

18-21: An interesting mix which I really enjoy. These girls can be very curious and naive, but at the same time generally interested in just learning about life and sex. Many virgins in this age. Some of the virgins are very conservative and scared and not worth the effort, however just as many are tired of being "a girl" and want to explore womanhood. In retrospect, most of the virgins I've had gave it up on the first or second date without much effort, I was probably just the right guy at the right time, luck. Can still be a difficult group however, as Western trends of girls dating primarily in her own age group are creeping in as the Russian economy improves for young people. Also, the corrupted early twenties ladder-climbing type is getting younger every year... so watch this.

Thank you, Dr. Skank. I'll try Salons. I assume they all advertise on intimcity. As for Fabrique - I checked the website and it looks like a club. If I get a wingman - I may try going to a club, even though it's not my thing. It seems like it's the best chance to find an 18 yo fribie in Moscow.

Aibolit.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Give TGIF a try,
Pros: If you want to see what you are picking face to face, there are really only 5 options:
Strip clubs (takeout): $$$$$
Night Flight: $$$$
Hot Dog: $$$
Tochka: $$$
Salons: $$

Principally Moscow offers everything that a monger cold possibly want.. but it is simply very expensive.

Like many, I don't do much mongering in Moscow anymore, since $200 (5000 rubles) is about my limit and that doesn't cut it at strip clubs or Night Flight... and at Hot Dog and tochkas it only gets you second tier.

Salons were never my thing in Moscow, but I may start exploring this more as it seems the cheapest way to get super hot pussy... but has the disadvantage of not being takeout.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Thank you, Dr. Skank. I'll try Salons. I assume they all advertise on intimcity. As for Fabrique - I checked the website and it looks like a club. If I get a wingman - I may try going to a club, even though it's not my thing. It seems like it's the best chance to find an 18 yo fribie in Moscow.

Aibolit.[/QUOTE]
Fabrique is a club.

There are numerous cocktail bars in the city as well, although "flying solo" here is almost as bad or even worse than being alone in a club. You really ought to find a wingman, even if he is only a prop. :)))

GQ Club isn't far from Fabrique and caters to an upscale "business" crowd. Girls go there to have a good time and/or meet a guy with money. They have a policy against letting in really young girls, as do many clubs, so expect more office type women here as well as girls looking for sponsors.

"CHE" is also popular, a Cuban place. I refuse to go to a place named after that idiot Che though, so don't expect to find me there.

As for salons and "individualki" working from apartments, you'll find contact numbers on intimcity or dosug.ru. You need to call to get addresses, but since you speak Russian, you should be ok.
[url]http://www.dosug.nu/servlet/ru/stickers?id_country=50&id_city=1961&id_part=1[/url]
As mentioned before, there are also a lot of pros on mamba sites as well.

Aibolit,

A si live in Moscow I can give you one or two advises. First, don't be afraid to go to club alone. I do it myself sometimes when my friends do not want to go out.

Well, if it is crowdy, with some drinks you can start to feel OK. And then once you are with russian hotties around you, beleive me there is no more problems.

From the few clubs that hqs been mentioned, here is my opinion:

- Karma bar is nowdays quiet empty, a lot of expat and tourists, so don't loose your time here imha

- Real my coy I don't like too as it is full of expats and it is quite small, so if you go alone you will start unconfortable

- Che is probably the best club in town to pick up girls. Last time I went there with 3 friends, ALL of us had a russian dievouchki in our arms afetr not less than 20 minutes. We were almost the only men to dance on the matino music. Some girls were obliged to dance together. But the club is reall really small, that's the bad part. Arrive there at 11. 30 when there is the live group. If at 1. 00 you didn't score, go somewhere else. It is the best pre party in town if I can say

- Fabrique: in this club you will understand why you love russia. Not so easy to score but I did twice. Techno. Nice qnd big club

- QG bar and Most: unless you are very beautiful it will be hard to get in. Only top models or people that knows the security guy can get in. But it worth a try.

My russian freebies analysis.

There is 2 kind of girls

- The first one, usually really beautiful, well dressed. She is looking for som romance. 1 date, 1 dinner, another one. Be careful, if after 2 or 3 dates you didnùmt fuck her go away. I do not count anymore all the girls that I took for dinner, thati have kissed and that have refused to fuck before 3 or 4 or 5 or? Dates.

- The second one, usually a little bit less beautiful than the first one, she went to the party FOR FUN; and believe the fun can be you. You have to be lucky to meet her, but if you do, don't miss your chance. These girls are the one zho qre hqppy to speak to foreigners; to show that they speak some english, and some of them also think that we are good lovers (less rude or something).

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Give TGIF a try, although it is in my opinion "just another bar" and not a place where super hotties hang out, even if I do admit a very doable crowd of 18-25 year old women do drop in occasionally, usually on their way to some place else. Could be a good place for some guys, just not for me.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it is not likely to have the hottest girls, much more likely to have a mixture of "normal" girls - some of whom can still be pretty good! But it has a big comfort zone for newbies and non-Russian speakers. Plus it is a good place early on in the evening - before the clubs have really got going. However, if Aiboit speaks some Russian, he probably has lots of options other than TGIF for meeting normal girls. Plus, it is affordable - you are not so likely to get soaked for expensive drinks there.

great social commentary provide by hecker and ds. my favorite age range in every country including the us is the 18-22 range for all the reasons described. although i'm noticing as the fsu economy continues to boom this age range will be looking to cash in like everyone else. i mean i suppose its just as easy to fall in love with a rich guy as it is a poor guy. everything is so material and image driven that there is alot of peer pressure to participate in the economic boom. they seem to take that saying ,"they judge by how you look and leave with what you say.... or something to that effect, very seriously. even us guys are expected to always look the part.

they all seem to overvalue themselves by the mid 20s and if their still single by the late 20s start to get desperate to find a mate. although to be honest i really don't have any personal experience with girls over 24 in any country but just my observations viewing others.

[QUOTE=Passepartout]
- Karma bar is nowdays quiet empty, a lot of expat and tourists, so don't loose your time here imha

- Real my coy I don't like too as it is full of expats and it is quite small, so if you go alone you will start unconfortable

- Che is probably the best club in town to pick up girls. Last time I went there with 3 friends, ALL of us had a russian dievouchki in our arms afetr not less than 20 minutes. We were almost the only men to dance on the matino music. Some girls were obliged to dance together. But the club is reall really small, that's the bad part. Arrive there at 11. 30 when there is the live group. If at 1. 00 you didn't score, go somewhere else. It is the best pre party in town if I can say

- Fabrique: in this club you will understand why you love russia. Not so easy to score but I did twice. Techno. Nice qnd big club

- QG bar and Most: unless you are very beautiful it will be hard to get in. Only top models or people that knows the security guy can get in. But it worth a try.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the current info on Karma, haven't been there for over a year. I agree, it is a club on every foreigners list, especially the Lonely Planet tourist type.

Real McCoy is a blast, don't care what anyone says it works well for me. There is a high foreigner content in the crowd, but not unbearably so. Lots of Russians in party groups, lots of groups of 3-4 girls too. In many ways it is the same crowd as Che in terms of age group, 21+.

Che... may have to try this place again, despite my political reservations.

Fabrique is just as much a foreign hangout as Real Mccoy, but do to the huge size of the club you don't notice as much. Lots of young devage there, but last two times I went I also went home alone, armed only with telephone numbers. Can be a real pain to get a drink sometimes, despite the multiple long bars.

GQ and Most aren't that hard to get into, but dress upscale or hip clubbish... or simply know people. Single guys have less chance to get in the groups of 2 or guys with girls.

I really like Opera too, but haven't been there in about 3 months.

The coolest club I have been to is probably Gazgolder, but it is pretty strictly invite only. Lots of private rooms and spaces in there and the coolest interior.

There are really tons of great clubs though and no shortage of really hot women in almost all of them.

Great fun and great value.

The directions from a prior post are spot-on. The path past the embassy is IMMEDIATELY past the embassy. I walked past it and turned around.

Tried it just for 1 hour, 1 girl. 1250 and I left a 300 tip.

Nice body-to-body oil massage in all the right places.

After popping, get a terrific real massage. I just melted after the whole experience.
Yes - I'll try 2 hours, 2 girls next time!

Dr. Skank, Passepartout and others. Thanks for your comments.

While I share Dr. Skank's reservations about Che (the guy "pioneered" concentration camps, after all). I may put my reservations aside. I'm sure Che wouldn't be please to see a devout capitalist, such as myself, using the club baring his name to his advantage.

Anyhow. Based on everyone's comments, I've decided to give Che, Fabrique, Real McCoy and, perhaps, Opera a try. I'll google these names to find out addresses/metro.

This discussion, however, led me to ask myself a more philosophical quesiton about activities in Moscow. It seems clear that Moscow became overpiced and as such is no longer a worthwhile destination for mongering. That leaves us with fribies and the question of their accessibility. Why do we need to go all the way to Moscow in order to chat with a pretty girl in a club? Are the Russian girls more likely to succumb to a "quickie" than, say, a Texan beautie?

I suspect that some of you will say that Russian girls are pretty and for us, Westernesr, somewhat exotic. Fine. However, German FKK may present an endlessly more accessible avenue for tasint "Russian beauty".

Any toughts/comments?

Aibolit

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Anyhow. Based on everyone's comments, I've decided to give Che, Fabrique, Real McCoy and, perhaps, Opera a try. I'll google these names to find out addresses/metro.

This discussion, however, led me to ask myself a more philosophical quesiton about activities in Moscow. It seems clear that Moscow became overpiced and as such is no longer a worthwhile destination for mongering. That leaves us with fribies and the question of their accessibility. Why do we need to go all the way to Moscow in order to chat with a pretty girl in a club? Are the Russian girls more likely to succumb to a "quickie" than, say, a Texan beautie?

I suspect that some of you will say that Russian girls are pretty and for us, Westernesr, somewhat exotic. Fine. However, German FKK may present an endlessly more accessible avenue for tasint "Russian beauty".

Any toughts/comments?

Aibolit[/QUOTE]
I think your lineup of things to do is a pretty well-rounded one with many aspects of "the scene". Don't forget Night Flight though, even if you don't want to pay the big bucks check it out for the hell of it.

Why go all the way to Moscow?

From a pro sex perspective it probably doesn't make much sense. St.Petersburg is considerably cheaper for example. German FKKs are really interesting if you are looking just for sex with hot women, although a session in a German FKK is only 30 minutes long... how much GFE can you generate in 30 mins... LOL.

Why Russian women is a simple question. Have you ever met any, I mean REAL Russian women? They are the greatest women on the planet, that's all.

Beautiful, they love sex, intelligent... lady on the street and a freak in the bed.

Besides, they are pretty easy... relatively speaking.

And even more important... I have never been anywhere else where it is both socially acceptable and POSSIBLE for a nearly 40 year old guy like me, certainly not a "stud" in the traditional sense of the word, to meet and screw 18-21 year old girls ranging from cute to sizzling hot on a regular basis. There is something very right about that. I do OK in the States, but wouldn't do nearly as well there as I do in Russia. What works for me will work for others too.

The numbers game plays into our favor in Russia and in my opinion particularly in Moscow. There are available women ranging from fuckably cute to very hot literally everywhere. Available women. Sure, many are taken or "off limits" or simply out of our league... but there are thousands upon thousands who are very available and looking for companionship and fun.

The chances of me scoring a hot late teen or early twen in a Texan bar would be low... and if I hit on the wrong chick she might even cause a scene. In Moscow I get lucky more often than I would have believed possible a few years ago.