General Reports

[URL]https://www.ttgasia.com/2020/08/07/tat-deputy-governor-dashes-hopes-of-2020-reopening-for-thailands-international-borders/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2473756]Let's talk about COVID-19 When the death rate gets to that of Pneumonia which is about an annual death rate of 3 million .......

MM.[/QUOTE]Works for me. Now we can all carry on with what this forum is about.

So thankful your just a dude with a keyboard and someone who has no influence or descions on any kind of policy!

In other news. They just opened Pattaya walking street to vehicles 24/7. They also allow bike parking on the street. What could go wrong with that! It's one big line of cars with people weaving in and out of traffic. Tried to walk down it last night and turned right around.

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2473813]They just opened Pattaya walking street to vehicles 24/7.[/QUOTE]Indeed. I guess there'll be a Thai committee or commission to review the name and after months of deliberation and bountiful expenses they will decide to call it "Street" in view of its no longer pedestrianised status.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2473465]If prices for girls were THE SAME everywhere which cities / countries would you be visiting the most to hobby? Based on girl's looks, service, attitude and the overall ease of hobbying.

I personally haven't included many cities like Prague / Budapest / London / Montreal / Toronto, etc with escorts only because imo not being able to see the girl before she appears at the door is not ease of hobbying.

Mine would be:

1. Dusseldorf / Frankfurt / Berlin.
2. Las Vegas
3. Switzerland
4. Tokyo / Osaka.
5. Bangkok / Pattaya.[/QUOTE]1. Medellin.

2. Kiev.

3. Frankfurt.

4. Central Cuba (not Havana).

5. Bangkok / Pattaya.

But Germany and Thailand are as easy as ordering food at a drive up window. Cuba is a cat and mouse game with police (chicas can get into trouble but guys typically do not). Medellin and Kiev are great but take lots of work. Not point and click like Germany and Thailand. Spanish is essential in Cuba and Medellin. The providers in Kiev are university students that speak very good English.

BB I spend several weeks per year in Vegas and am very familair with the game there. I don't see how it makes your list based on "overall ease of mongering". The hot girls make so much bank just dancing in strip clubs it's very hard to get take home. At any price.

I've heard Japan is difficult for non-Asians but still want to try it. Switzerland I'll maybe try on my next journey to the FKKs hopefully soon.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2473815]Indeed. I guess there'll be a Thai committee or commission to review the name and after months of deliberation and bountiful expenses they will decide to call it "Street" in view of its no longer pedestrianised status.[/QUOTE]What a mess!

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2473813]In other news. They just opened Pattaya walking street to vehicles 24/7. They also allow bike parking on the street. What could go wrong with that! It's one big line of cars with people weaving in and out of traffic. Tried to walk down it last night and turned right around.[/QUOTE]It has been open like that since the lockdown started. The only time you could not drive down it with a car was a week or two ago when they had put the police table in the middle of the road near the entrance. There were just not too many people riding down it in cars. The couple of times that I have gone down since the opening, I have parked my bike there as well. I have never seen it as it is in the picture that you posted though. Appears to be the taxis looking for fares that are fucking things up.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2473837]It has been open like that since the lockdown started. [/QUOTE]I wasn't aware of that as I only go down there once and awhile.

Just saw this a few days ago.

[URL]https://www.facebook.com/176481829769501/posts/749114599172885/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2473837]It has been open like that since the lockdown started. The only time you could not drive down it with a car was a week or two ago when they had put the police table in the middle of the road near the entrance. There were just not too many people riding down it in cars. The couple of times that I have gone down since the opening, I have parked my bike there as well. I have never seen it as it is in the picture that you posted though. Appears to be the taxis looking for fares that are fucking things up.[/QUOTE]Your photo was exactly I've seen it since they allow the GoGo to open which is usually once a week? I usually just come in from 2nd road Soi 15 and make a left and park my bike somewhere. Maybe the photo was taken during the closing hours which seem to have stretched to 2 am the reason for all the taxi pre-COVID at 3:30 am 4 am usually it starts to open to all the vehicle traffic.

I missed last night but tonight Sunday I was at W. S. It was exactly like your Photo that was around 8:30 pm but the time I walked out of Pin up 11:30 pm it was busier but nowhere packed like the other photo.

I had heard they were thinking of doing this from my Thai neighbor since they seem to want to move the local crowd consolidate from places like 3rd Road, Hollywood, etc. Prior to the Virus and get places like 808, I-Bar some business? As for prices at the GoGo that are open on W. S. Maybe because I'm Asian but the prices quoted particularly tonight at PU was like Pre-Virus but I still had fun.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2473938]I had heard they were thinking of doing this from my Thai neighbor since they seem to want to move the local crowd consolidate from places like 3rd Road, Hollywood, etc. Prior to the Virus and get places like 808, I-Bar some business?[/QUOTE]The lady that comes over to do my massage said they turned one of the Indian discos on Walking Street to a Thai and hip-hop disco. She said the place is doing big business. I tell you the Thais are around here partying like it is 1999 with almost no foreigners around. All the Thai bars near me are packed late at night.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474017]The lady that comes over to do my massage said they turned one of the Indian discos on Walking Street to a Thai and hip-hop disco. She said the place is doing big business. I tell you the Thais are around here partying like it is 1999 with almost no foreigners around. All the Thai bars near me are packed late at night.[/QUOTE]Maybe the leaders know something we don't in regards to their opinion wanting locals to travel and spend money? As you noted the last 4 day holiday plenty of cars rolling in from Bangkok I roll through Soi Baukhao and noticed a number of people checking into the Holiday Inn Express thinking are they letting people in thinking Chinese etc. But later thought got to be locals?

July 28th, forgot the holiday already? The wife wanted to head to Sattahip to the Temple to pray for our son who is headed off the next day 29th, for the lottery draft. The Temple was packed doing a booming business I usually go through the motion to make her happy but due to all the problems in the world, I did an extra walk around the Temple since I had an abnormal amount of requests?

We were supposed to head to a second Temple for our extra request but due to the crowds of the first, we decided to forego and head back to Bang Saray beach for the rest of the day we had to drive through twice to find a parking space so there is money floating around the locals. Just like your area on the Darkside night spots for eating and drinking which are normally outside are packed I thought I would but I haven't heard one single Thai having the Virus nor have I heard or seen anyone jumping up and down they are getting any stimulus payment from the government.

An article today from a TAT assistance Governor spoke his opinion there are no talks at all about opening up Thailand for International flights which makes it look bleak for the rest of this year most expected something might happen late November or early December for the high season there is speculation even my plan trip Feb 2021 for Chinese New Year will not happen? I cross my finger and continue to pray?

Trump is considering blocking Americans from reentering USA if they are suspected of having COVID. So for those Americans in Thailand that may have to leave by September 26 consider the scenario that you fly Bangkok to San Fran and at upon arrival at SFO you have flu like symptoms because you caught a bug on the plane. Now you can not reenter USA so now you will have to fly back to your last destination, Thailand. After paying $1000 USD for a last minute ticket back to Thailand, you arrive in Thailand and obviously you will not be allowed in again. Now you will need to buy yet another plane ticket back to SFO after being denied entry back in to Thailand and pray that you no longer have flu like symptoms by the time you reach USA again after a few days of straight flying. Got to love America!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2474292]Trump is considering blocking Americans from reentering USA if they are suspected of having COVID.[/QUOTE]Impossible. He likes to think out loud just like Kanye West. People always take their verbal brainstorming to heart. There is a board (or maybe bored) member in the Colombia thread doing the same thing. Talking about going to neighboring countries and trekking through the jungle and paying off immigration agents and using fake passports so he could get inside of Colombia since it is closed.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2474292]Trump is considering blocking Americans from reentering USA if they are suspected of having COVID. So for those Americans in Thailand that may have to leave by September 26 consider the scenario that you fly Bangkok to San Fran and at upon arrival at SFO you have flu like symptoms because you caught a bug on the plane. Now you can not reenter USA so now you will have to fly back to your last destination, Thailand. After paying $1000 USD for a last minute ticket back to Thailand, you arrive in Thailand and obviously you will not be allowed in again. Now you will need to buy yet another plane ticket back to SFO after being denied entry back in to Thailand and pray that you no longer have flu like symptoms by the time you reach USA again after a few days of straight flying. Got to love America![/QUOTE]There was a woman trapped in HK airport for 3 weeks.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474312]Impossible. He likes to think out loud just like Kanye West. [/QUOTE]I totally agree with you but one has to wonder as to the train of thought of the person who Americans voted to be their leader. Just to think this person has the power to blow up the world.

May be of interest to somebody.

Just renewed my retirement visa. Some items of note from visit a year ago.

SCB branch at the complex closed so if you used it to get your bank letter confirming account balance it's not now available. There is a branch at Big see further along Chang Wattana road.

No TM 30 required.

New visa's expiration date will be 26th September 2021. In other words your current visa is good to September 26th even if the year is up before then.

Otherwise it's the usual bunch of repetitive document signing and hanging around although this time I was in out in a little under 4 hours which included getting the reentry permit and the 12 to 1 lunch break.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474312]Impossible. He likes to think out loud just like Kanye West. People always take their verbal brainstorming to heart. There is a board (or maybe bored) member in the Colombia thread doing the same thing. Talking about going to neighboring countries and trekking through the jungle and paying off immigration agents and using fake passports so he could get inside of Colombia since it is closed.[/QUOTE]This kind of falls into your category from the Pattaya Thread " Holy grail El Dorado " and your response here " Impossible " I wonder at times when I look back how a guy like me ever was able to meet people like Huey Newton (Black Panther) Sonny Barger (Hells Angel) two of the most powerful President of the two largest labor unions a number of politicians like Mayor Willie Brown, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer, Maxine Walters, a rising Chinese State Senator in 2006 and prior to saying goodbye told him " beware who you take a donation from " today he is still serving his sentence, even " I'll be back " Arnold do I know them well enough I can just call and say let's have lunch it was no more than in passing being in the right place at the right time or just tagging along with someone else who can?

What does all this have to do with this topic some dress well, spoke well, but in the end, all of them have one thing in common they like to talk no different than Trump or even Kenya West. All of them talk because they know they have people's attention the more they talk the more sense of power they feel they have so they keep talking and when they do shit basically comes out of their mouth. The one that comes to mind the most and it isn't because I don't like blacks is Maxine Walters now that is a woman who can talk a lot of shit I never thought shit could be that entertaining?

I heard this a number of times at the California State Capital in private meetings with Union lobbyist State Representatives and my only meeting with Arnold it seems a common practice if they couldn't decide on a final decision for someone to mention something like don't worry about it " The American voters are too stupid to figure it out " funny isn't that what the Obama professor said about the Affordable Health Care Act?

I'm no politician but I've heard people of all color throughout the USA In Union Halls that speak and throw out shit like Trump when it comes to Trump it seems I've known him my whole life so when he said he was running " I said this should be one great reality show " when he won I said this is going to be the best roller coaster ride of all times and I'm a member of the roller coaster club of America been on some of the best and largest. I wish I had a chance to sit with him and shoot the bull I actually think by the time I'm done with him he would be so red people would surely think he is a red neck or his hair would be whip around to the other side?

When it comes to Trump there is nothing to be afraid anyone watch from the day he started to run to now he isn't really in charge. I'm no Consitutionist but I'm a believer of this simple document although not perfect it is what controls him regardless of why people put him in office there isn't a thing anyone has to worry about him pushing the button. As for the scenario of an American Citizen landing in the USA With the Virus and being return is slim and none need me to say it again? Illegals are crossing our borders and instead of turning them back are making sure they are put up at the Hilton. In San Francisco, the Hotels are shut due to the Virus but the Mayor is forcing Hotels to accommodate the Homeless so they can be protected from the Virus unless you are Muslim they aren't turning you back Trump says things this is his form of " Art of War " Chapter 6, throw the shit out see who is smart enough to figure it out that it is just shit? Surprisingly as you noted kindly " brainstorming to heart ".

You got to give Kanya West some credit he must have some balls to do what he is doing maybe having all that money does make you stupid or is it the Big Ego like Trump?
When he got elected people everywhere said I'm moving to Canada? rich or poor how many actually have? It is just talk nothing more nothing less it only matters when people start to over think that is when the shit hits the fan?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474372]May be of interest to somebody.

Just renewed my retirement visa. Some items of note from visit a year ago.

SCB branch at the complex closed so if you used it to get your bank letter confirming account balance it's not now available. There is a branch at Big see further along Chang Wattana road.

No TM 30 required.

New visa's expiration date will be 26th September 2021. In other words your current visa is good to September 26th even if the year is up before then.

Otherwise it's the usual bunch of repetitive document signing and hanging around although this time I was in out in a little under 4 hours which included getting the reentry permit and the 12 to 1 lunch break.[/QUOTE]Wow glad I'm not in Bangkok, Jomtien this year like most since I get up really early, I was first in line with everything in order even my TM-30 which last reported no longer is needed unless you move to a new address? Counters opened at 8:30 am I was first to be called I was out the door at 8:40 am didn't bother to get a Multi-Entry since where is one going especially if you plan to come back? Since then done two 90 reports since the website doesn't work Online for me in one minute out the next.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2474312]He likes to think out loud[/QUOTE]He thinks? He hides it well.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2474336]I totally agree with you but one has to wonder as to the train of thought of the person who Americans voted to be their leader.[/QUOTE]Shouldn't the word "crash" be after "train" and before "of"?

The saddest thing was the choice came down to Heelbone Spurs vs Hillary. Same in the UK last year with them having to choose between BoJo and Albert Steptoe.

Is there really no one statesperson like, intelligent, diplomatic and forward thinking left?

Seems being a philanderer who can't avoid contact between their genitals and those of persons who are not their significant other is no longer a bar to high office. Indeed it might now be a requirement.

I'll be head of the World Bank. Applicants for other positions are open!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2474336]I totally agree with you but one has to wonder as to the train of thought of the person who Americans voted to be their leader. Just to think this person has the power to blow up the world.[/QUOTE]Looking at the political leaders of France and Germany I don't think the US is doing too bad, especially considering the nutjobs representing the other party.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2474500]Looking at the political leaders of France and Germany I don't think the US is doing too bad, especially considering the nutjobs representing the other party.[/QUOTE]If the Spanish "flu" ended WW2, we can hope the latest pandemic will stop upcoming wars, since the troops will all be sick. The Lord works in strange ways. "Dr Mary's Monkey" is a good book about the development of the polio vaccines, with cameos of J. Edgar Hoover, Lee Harvey Oswald. The doctor in New Orleans at the center of it injected his two grandchildren with a polio vaccine. One died, the other got polio. $20 online from the author.

The Spanish Flu coincided with WWI, not II.

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2474506]If the Spanish "flu" ended WW2, we can hope the latest pandemic will stop upcoming wars, since the troops will all be sick. The Lord works in strange ways. "Dr Mary's Monkey" is a good book about the development of the polio vaccines, with cameos of J. Edgar Hoover, Lee Harvey Oswald. The doctor in New Orleans at the center of it injected his two grandchildren with a polio vaccine. One died, the other got polio. $20 online from the author.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chacal60;2474547]The Spanish Flu coincided with WWI, not II.[/QUOTE]I thought he was just making a joke reference to Trump's recent comment about the "1917" flu pandemic helping to end "WWII." Yes, Trump is the one that keeps getting the date of the 1918-1919 flu pandemic wrong and in a recent misstatement of it he got the years when World War II happened wrong by 24 to 28 years.

You know, the years when Hitler killed all those "yo, semites" and a few million other "anominous" victims of unknown "oranges."

Now he can go back to Biden's supposed cognitive impairment.

[QUOTE=Chacal60;2474547]The Spanish Flu coincided with WWI, not II.[/QUOTE]Wrong! It was WWII, don't you read the news. All the soldiers got too sick to fight. This is not an example of throw shit out there and see whose smart enough to figure it out. Unless of course you think the people are real stupid.

My posts and comments are to make fun of things like the one you just quoted with cartoon characters and Swedish music groups as political leaders. I know zilch about politics. As if your viewpoint makes one difference in this world. You guys are way too serious when you post about political stuff and your comments are not for light entertainment rather trying to educate or state your reasons on why someone should have the same political viewpoints as you do.

Since there seems to be no end to this political crap I will continue posting my political viewpoints the way I see them like you guys post yours. FYI i'm voting for Taylor Swift over Kanye in the next election! The Pet Shop Boys should be the next British PM!

How would the uptight political scrum halves (or leftist rightist wingers) feel if we started posting sex topics on a political board?

When I say 'you' I mean everyone, not just you ET.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2474326]There was a woman trapped in HK airport for 3 weeks.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.arabnews.com/node/1701331/offbeat[/URL]

For anyone under any illusion that the situation regarding inbound tourism is going to change imminently [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1967163/no-end-in-sight-for-flights-ban[/URL].

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2474844]For anyone under any illusion that the situation regarding inbound tourism is going to change imminently [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1967163/no-end-in-sight-for-flights-ban[/URL].[/QUOTE]To all those who want to visit Thailand this year forget it.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/holidays-thailand-wont-happen-2020-134400095.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2474844]For anyone under any illusion that the situation regarding inbound tourism is going to change imminently [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1967163/no-end-in-sight-for-flights-ban[/URL].[/QUOTE]They worry about the death from the Virus yet in one day reported 78 road death?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2474901]They worry about the death from the Virus yet in one day reported 78 road death?[/QUOTE]But how long will their luck hold out considering mexico and Brazil figures? Hospitals in isaan won't be able to cope with high numbers of covid.

Its suspicious that thyre somehow immune or not.

[QUOTE=Chacal60;2474547]The Spanish Flu coincided with WWI, not II.[/QUOTE]Only later did I learn this was a joking reference to that moron's cognitive fart. I've been avoiding the news for almost four years now.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2474953]But how long will their luck hold out considering mexico and Brazil figures? Hospitals in isaan won't be able to cope with high numbers of covid.

Its suspicious that thyre somehow immune or not.[/QUOTE]How long? My opinion is as soon as they start to open up International airspace since their economy is dying and no matter how much they put out those smoke and mirrors figures and ideas for local to travel and spend money which in time will not be enough they will have to expand that means open it up. And when it does the number will spike just isn't just for Thailand for everyone else in the world.

They have done a remarkable job by locking this country down from the outside and surprisingly never seen so much road, drains, electrical work being done in Pattaya in all my years living here and being done at once. Just yesterday I was using Hwy 7, from Nongprue to Sukhumwit it's surface is all concrete admittingly done real well not a crack or hole smooth but somehow someone decided it needs a complete pave over with black tar.

When it comes to Isaan or anywhere in Thailand it would be a big YES when the next wave comes from the outside they have nothing in place they are totally unprepared that is when their luck will run out a big reason so many retired ex-pats want and enjoy this lockdown. In general, the old and weak here the Virus will target first?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2475062]They have done a remarkable job by locking this country down from the outside[/QUOTE]LBM,

Indeed. My view is that in addition they have taken two actions which more than any has limited the impact.

The first is that since the Lumpini Boxing Stadium fiasco all people who test positive are hospitalised until they test clear twice, even if not showing symptoms. This has meant those with mild or no symptoms weren't sent home to "self-isolate" and then sneak out to the shops or whatever because they felt OK. Transmission prevented.

The second is that they were able to implement contact tracing on a significant scale through the health volunteer network (1 million of them is the quoted number). I know of a country with a similar size population whose contact tracing capacity was only about 5 cases a day. This meant that any chance of contact tracing had evaporated before they even knew there was a problem.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2475062]When it comes to Isaan or anywhere in Thailand it would be a big YES when the next wave comes from the outside[/QUOTE]This is why the Thai strategy has become eradication not control. The healthcare system simply simply couldn't cope with a significant outbreak. To a certain extent they are now victims of their own success. The public uproar after the Military "Walk Like an Egyptian" incident in Rayong shows the general determination and expectation that there should be no second wave. Of course those feelings are far less in Tourism areas like Pattaya, Phuket, Samui, parts of Bangkok, etc.

There is a piece on Pattaya News clarifying some of the incorrect reporting which has been going on about tourism prospects. [URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2020/08/13/fact-check-is-thailand-closed-to-all-foreign-tourists-until-2021/[/URL] There's not a lot of "New news" but it does clarify the situation about the Elite Visa. At present they are not being allowed entry although acceptance of it is approved "in principle". This may be because they are quite able to fill the repatriation flights with Thai returnees, spouses or Thais and work permit holders at present.

[QUOTE=Chacal60;2475049]Only later did I learn this was a joking reference to that moron's cognitive fart. I've been avoiding the news for almost four years now.[/QUOTE]You've got to avoid it for another four, he's going to be re-elected.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2474953]But how long will their luck hold out considering mexico and Brazil figures? [/QUOTE]Isn't it more appropriate to consider figures in neighboring countries: Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Vietnam?

Very few cases and even fewer deaths.

[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2473756]
But seriously 700,000 dead in almost 9 months is influenza like numbers, about 77 million away from the 1% you need to be considered a global pandemic like the Spanish flu that killed 20 million when the population was 1. 5 Billion. According to the numbers provided by the governments Covid-19 should not be considered much more dangerous than the flu. When the numbers go above 3 million in 12 months I will wear a mask. I will even get a vaccine if they go above 78 million. Numbers are facts, just like the sky is blue. If the news said the sky was green, would you believe it or would you go take a look? So, why don't people look and compare the actual numbers of COVID-19?[/QUOTE]The big difference with influenza is that the world has limited the number of deaths to 'only' 700,000 by taking all kinds of drastic measures. If we hadn't done that the death rate would have been much higher by now.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;2475718]The big difference with influenza is that the world has limited the number of deaths to 'only' 700,000 by taking all kinds of drastic measures. If we hadn't done that the death rate would have been much higher by now.[/QUOTE]And I'll add, we know how the flu behaves, we know what it does to the body, and we know the after-effects. This is a novel virus. We are not sure what the long-term effects will be. We are also not sure how it will mutate. I think being a bit cautious is prudent until we understand those things and have a good arsenal of fairly effective treatments that we are sure of.

For those who think they are traveling again soon think again. There is a new COVID strain D614 G which is a mutation of the original COVID strain. It is 10 x more infectious than the original COVID strain and has been found in SEA. It has been traced back to Europe.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2476324]There is a new COVID strain D614 G which is a mutation of the original COVID strain. It is 10 x more infectious than the original COVID strain and has been found in SEA.[/QUOTE]Yes, experts are looking at this new virus variant. But overly simplistic statements are not helpful. There is a good article on this variant up on [URL]Medium.com[/URL], which is a website that collects long-form content written by people who are actually knowledgeable.

Here is the abstract:

The variant is more infectious in laboratory settings; whether it means increased viral spread in humans is unconfirmed. Current evidence says that the variant is not any deadlier. And so, treatment options should not be any more different. Both (new and old) variants should react similarly to vaccines, studies suggest, as the mutation does not change the immunogenic part of the spike protein; that is, the receptor-binding domain (RBD).

If you are inclined to read the full article, you may find it here:

[URL]https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/what-the-d614g-mutation-means-for-covid-19-spread-fatality-treatment-and-vaccine-7dda1c066f0d[/URL]

[QUOTE=Bunky;2476423]Yes, experts are looking at this new virus variant. But overly simplistic statements are not helpful. There is a good article on this variant up on [URL]Medium.com[/URL], which is a website that collects long-form content written by people who are actually knowledgeable.

Here is the abstract:

The variant is more infectious in laboratory settings; whether it means increased viral spread in humans is unconfirmed. Current evidence says that the variant is not any deadlier. And so, treatment options should not be any more different. Both (new and old) variants should react similarly to vaccines, studies suggest, as the mutation does not change the immunogenic part of the spike protein; that is, the receptor-binding domain (RBD).

If you are inclined to read the full article, you may find it here:

[URL]https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/what-the-d614g-mutation-means-for-covid-19-spread-fatality-treatment-and-vaccine-7dda1c066f0d[/URL][/QUOTE]My friend living in Khon Kaen says that things are normal and with the rules observed there seems to be no big out breaks in Bangkok or the provinces.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2476504]My friend living in Khon Kaen says that things are normal and with the rules observed there seems to be no big out breaks in Bangkok or the provinces.[/QUOTE]My Thai girl sent me a photo of her classroom where she teaches. Nobody had on masks. She says there is no virus in Chaiyaphum.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2476504]My friend living in Khon Kaen says that things are normal and with the rules observed there seems to be no big out breaks in Bangkok or the provinces.[/QUOTE]Yes things are pretty much normal in Thailand. You still have to wear a mask and sign in and get your temp taken to go into places like the mall. Some people still ride around on their motorbikes wearing a mask. I am in the poolhall now with 30 people inside and 1 lady and 1 man that work here have on masks. All the other employees and patrons do not.

Have sex worker prices increased beyond the rate of inflation in Thailand? Is so, in what markets has this occurred? Among street walkers, gogos, bar girls, escorts, massage places, clubs, dating sites, freelancers, etc? If so, by how much have rates increased beyond the rate of inflation? Due to what factors? Based on what evidence? Personal experiences which may differ between customers as YMMV?

My research regarding the period from 2004 through 2013 concerning NEP area street walkers found that prices did not go up. Neither did service or attitude go down.

If inflation had an average increase of 3.9 percent per year the rates should have increased about 47% over those 10 years. On that basis a price of 1000 baht should have increased to almost 1500 baht by 2014.

In 20 years of inflation at a average rate of 3.94 percent inflation per year the price increase should go from 1000 to almost 2200 baht. That's not even considering the many other factors that could increase prices even more.

It seems around the year 2000 long time sessions were much more usual relative to short time sessions than they are now. I'd suggest that "pay for play" ladies then were more naive & had fewer customers in the country. So the competition between them to get & keep customers motivated them to perform well & worked to keep prices from increasing much if anything. As did the ladies relative naivety about STIs, customers & the worldwide sex industry in general also contribute to low rates and good service.

Various factors, in addition to inflation, less naivety and increased customer numbers may work towards moving prices up and or service, including attitude, down. Such as an increase in men as sponsors sending monthly cash donations to sex workers. Or those generous ones who buy ladies expensive jewelry and give them huge one time amounts of baht out of nothing but the goodness of their heart. Also ladies getting large amounts of earnings from their porn appearances. Add to that customers who offer tips, large and small, after a session and for various reasons. Then there may also be increased drug use leading to a general increase in poorer performance. Increased pimping or otherwise being under the influence or control of a boss or employer may be another factor. Those factors and other possible variables could work together to lead to an increase in prices and or a decline in service.

You don't factor in the effect of pimps working gals harder to process more guys in a 24 hour period. The gals who were happy with all night sessions around 15 years ago had pimps on their backs to get busier. And do more gents on short times, hence the fall in attitudes.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2477144]You don't factor in the effect of pimps working gals harder to process more guys in a 24 hour period. The gals who were happy with all night sessions around 15 years ago had pimps on their backs to get busier. And do more gents on short times, hence the fall in attitudes.[/QUOTE]Uh, I don't really think that's a factor. After 20 plus years here I've not seen evidence of wide scale pimping in LOS. Especially in the scene directed at foreigners.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2476942]If inflation had an average increase of 3.9 percent per year the rates should have increased about 47% over those 10 years.[/QUOTE]Where are you pulling that 3. 9% inflation from?

Officially, average annual inflation was 1. 6% over the last 10 years, and 2% over the last 20 years. [URL=="https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/THA/thailand/inflation-rate-cpi"]source[/URL]. I feel consumer prices have risen faster, but that's the official data.

So, if ST cost 1000 baht in 2010, should be 1170 baht in 2020 due to inflation.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2476942]Have sex worker prices increased beyond the rate of inflation in Thailand? [/QUOTE]There is no stone with sex worker prices carved into it. Unless you are somewhere like a soapy where you are paying the money to the house and they are paying the girl from that, then you pay what you negotiate. For 15 years I have had no problem negotiating 500ST and 1000 LT for freelance. For me and my experiences, the only thing that has changed is the date.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2477144]You don't factor in the effect of pimps working gals harder to process more guys in a 24 hour period. The gals who were happy with all night sessions around 15 years ago had pimps on their backs to get busier. And do more gents on short times, hence the fall in attitudes.[/QUOTE]Have you ever been to Thailand? Their families are the pimps. The reason what you are saying makes no sense is because a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Who would turn down a mf paying a sure 3000 for LT IN HOPES of 4 mfs paying 1000 each for ST? They have to get chosen; they do not do the choosing. There is no monger tree that they just go grab mongers from at will. Maybe you are actually Thai with that kind of thinking.

Shit I just fucked some chick a few minutes ago for 500 baht that says she works at some Japanese club on Second Road that charges 3500 baht. They get what they can when they can get it. There is no guaranteed money for them.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2477186]

Shit I just fucked some chick a few minutes ago for 500 baht that says she works at some Japanese club on Second Road that charges 3500 baht. They get what they can when they can get it. There is no guaranteed money for them.[/QUOTE]What many also fail to recognize is that most of Asia operates a split pricing system for everything from carrots to pussy.

There are "prices" for fresh off the boat tourists, knowledgeable residents and locals. Yes there is some wiggle room between the categories but the girls are very aware of what the different guys are able and willing to pay.

Your example of 3500 newbie, 1500 repeat customer (my guestinate) and 500 long term resident pricing FROM THE SAME GIRL is not exceptional.

Enjoy. G.

[QUOTE=Goferring;2477245]What many also fail to recognize is that most of Asia operates a split pricing system for everything from carrots to pussy.[/QUOTE]Somehow I ended up in a facebook group about dual pricing in Thailand. I just laugh and laugh at these people. And at least they tell you upfront by having it on the sign; not like they are being dishonest and hiding it from you. People should be used to it by now. Their country, their rules. You don't have any rights in a country that is not yours. But people's home countries have them with a sense of entitlement and believing everything should be fair. Thailand still operates in the real world and not the everybody gets a trophy world. This is not my country. All I can do is stay in my damn lane and thank them for allowing me to come here.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2477283]Somehow I ended up in a facebook group about dual pricing in Thailand. I just laugh and laugh at these people. And at least they tell you upfront by having it on the sign; not like they are being dishonest and hiding it from you. People should be used to it by now. Their country, their rules. You don't have any rights in a country that is not yours. But people's home countries have them with a sense of entitlement and believing everything should be fair. Thailand still operates in the real world and not the everybody gets a trophy world. This is not my country. All I can do is stay in my damn lane and thank them for allowing me to come here.[/QUOTE]I went to Emmanuelle in BKK in Ratchada one day.

And the guy told me the prices I saw 2 rows and asked about that?

He said white guys are charged more LOL.

If you check their website it will confirm it.

I would love to see a biz do this with Asians in LOS Angeles LOL.

I also think its funny they really like anything to do with Hitler.

[QUOTE=Goferring;2477245]What many also fail to recognize is that most of Asia operates a split pricing system for everything from carrots to pussy.

There are "prices" for fresh off the boat tourists, knowledgeable residents and locals. Yes there is some wiggle room between the categories but the girls are very aware of what the different guys are able and willing to pay.

Your example of 3500 newbie, 1500 repeat customer (my guestinate) and 500 long term resident pricing FROM THE SAME GIRL is not exceptional.

Enjoy. G.[/QUOTE]I remember a conversation a few years ago with a PHD economist from the USA that was teaching at Nottingham University in Ningbo China. He said he had hired a female student of his to do all of his shopping for him. He had done the math and a Chinese person shopping would get the Chinese price, and the difference between the Chinese price and the Laowai price was great enough that he was still coming out ahead paying her to do the shopping for him.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2477283]Somehow I ended up in a facebook group about dual pricing in Thailand. I just laugh and laugh at these people. And at least they tell you upfront by having it on the sign; not like they are being dishonest and hiding it from you. People should be used to it by now. Their country, their rules. You don't have any rights in a country that is not yours. But people's home countries have them with a sense of entitlement and believing everything should be fair. Thailand still operates in the real world and not the everybody gets a trophy world. This is not my country. All I can do is stay in my damn lane and thank them for allowing me to come here.[/QUOTE]Well stated and my stance as well. We are guests.

[QUOTE=Goferring;2477245]What many also fail to recognize is that most of Asia operates a split pricing system for everything from carrots to pussy.[/QUOTE]I was warned about this by my Thai friends in USA before my first trip. I don't mind paying the extra. The Thai people have always been kind to me and they have so little and we have so much.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2477344]I was warned about this by my Thai friends in USA before my first trip. I don't mind paying the extra. The Thai people have always been kind to me and they have so little and we have so much.[/QUOTE]This is where it becomes somewhat of a grey area: even in areas where I have been a long term resident, speak the language and am very well aware of true pricing, I'm also happy to leave a tip for good service.

But what is a tip? $2? $20? A 10 fold markup? Some are reasonable but some are just an invitation to be regarded as a easy mark. I have NEVER seen the latter result in better service as some would suggest. If anything, it's an invitation to give minimal service to someone who will not know the difference and happily pay for it.

Cheers. G.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2477344]I was warned about this by my Thai friends in USA before my first trip. I don't mind paying the extra. The Thai people have always been kind to me and they have so little and we have so much.[/QUOTE]The Thai people don't have little, the poor Thai people have little. The same as the poor Americans or poor anybody else has little. Who is this "we" you speak of? The well off Thai people have way more than my broke ass. Have you seen all the Mercedes rolling around this mf? Meanwhile I am on a 6000 baht bicycle.

The richest in the poorest countries have vastly more than the average citizen of the richest countries in the world. That really isn't the metric to judge relative poverty levels. Neither is the usual GDP per capita stat, failing to account for wealth distribution. A better gauge is the number of people on or below a poverty line which is usually defined as an income sufficient to cover basic needs. More important still are whether there are social welfare programs to take care of the less fortunate. Thailand is not a poor country but there are far more people poor here than in developed countries. There is no welfare safety net to speak of and with a minimum wage of $10 a day it behooves on us living here not to take advantage and to be generous when and where we can with the usual caveats of not being a chump and according to our means. Its simply treating the less fortunate with a sense of decency and humanity.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2477182]Where are you pulling that 3. 9% inflation from?

Officially, average annual inflation was 1. 6% over the last 10 years, and 2% over the last 20 years. [URL=="https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/THA/thailand/inflation-rate-cpi"]source[/URL]. I feel consumer prices have risen faster, but that's the official data.

So, if ST cost 1000 baht in 2010, should be 1170 baht in 2020 due to inflation.[/QUOTE]The 10 years I referred to were 2004 to 2013. I said:

"My research regarding the period from 2004 through 2013 concerning NEP area street walkers found that prices did not go up. Neither did service or attitude go down."

I didn't pull the 3. 9% inflation percentage from anywhere, as it was a qualified hypothetical "if" statement. However in looking at the chart at the following URL, the figures for 2004 to 2013 are generally much higher than the 1. 6% figure you mention over the last 10 years.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/332274/inflation-rate-in-thailand/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2477359]The Thai people don't have little, the poor Thai people have little. The same as the poor Americans or poor anybody else has little. Who is this "we" you speak of? The well off Thai people have way more than my broke ass. Have you seen all the Mercedes rolling around this mf? Meanwhile I am on a 6000 baht bicycle.[/QUOTE]I didn't write specifically, "we" was a bad word. By "we" I was referring to western tourists who have a normal life in a western country and make regular trips to Thailand for holidays.

I'm happy paying extra to the people who serve me directly. Taxi. Restaurant tips. Housekeeping. Hookers. Street food vendors. Tour guides. The tricky area for me is hotels because I have no idea who gets my money. I do know that my favorite Samui hotel is owned by two friends and they aren't driving luxury cars.

I agree that you do see a few luxury and hot sports cars in Thailand, but that is a tiny percentage when compared to those traveling by foot, baht bus, motor scooter, and motor scooter taxi. I video chat with various Thai girls who share 3000-5000 THB / month apartments that are tiny and in dismal parts of town. They have no recreation other than temple visits because there is no money. Staff houses for luxury hotel workers are dismal. Try video chatting with the Issan girl when she is at home on the farm, it's probably dismal and understandable why these girls send money home. I don't mind helping because all the Thai people have always treated me well.

When I was last in Bangkok I hung out with a non-pro I met online. When I went shopping she showed me so many places where I should not shop which included all malls which she told me she never stepped foot in. The places she took me to had good quality items at amazingly low prices. I saw absolutely no obvious tourists in these places. She also took me to many Thai and Chinese restaurants that were frequented only by locals and had fantastic food for a fraction of the prices of other restaurants. In one of the Chinese restaurants she took me to I had the best tasting meal I've ever had in a restaurant.

"Thailand outperformed Russia and India by becoming the most unequal country in the world according to the 2018 report released by Credit Suisse.

According to the findings of the 2018 Global Wealth Databook 2018 report, statistics compiled by Credit Suisse in 40 countries show that the richest 1% of Thais control 66.9% of the country's wealth.

At the same time, 50% of the poorest Thais (25 million people) held 1. 7% of the country's wealth, while 70% (35 million) controlled 5%.

Two years ago, Thailand ranked third in the report, after Russia and India.

In 2016, the richest 1% of Thais (500,000 people) held 58.0% of the country's wealth. In 2018, they controlled 66.9%, overtaking their Russian peers whose wealth share rose from 78% to 57.1%.

These three countries are followed by Turkey where the richest control 54.1% of the wealth.

Apart from these four countries, there is no country in the world where the richest 1% control more than half of their country's wealth.

The most equitable countries are Belgium, where the richest 1% own 20.1% of the wealth, followed by Australia (22.4%).

Credit Suisse global wealth report"

What in 2020 after drastic covid19 Thailand lockdown ?

Wow, For years whenever politics conversation came up I always without reading any stats just threw out that 1% of the richest Thais ran this country but down deep gave them the benefit of the doubt and just round it off to 5%.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2477643]"Thailand outperformed Russia and India by becoming the most unequal country in the world according to the 2018 report released by Credit Suisse.

According to the findings of the 2018 Global Wealth Databook 2018 report, statistics compiled by Credit Suisse in 40 countries show that the richest 1% of Thais control 66.9% of the country's wealth.

At the same time, 50% of the poorest Thais (25 million people) held 1. 7% of the country's wealth, while 70% (35 million) controlled 5%.

Two years ago, Thailand ranked third in the report, after Russia and India.

In 2016, the richest 1% of Thais (500,000 people) held 58.0% of the country's wealth. In 2018, they controlled 66.9%, overtaking their Russian peers whose wealth share rose from 78% to 57.1%.

These three countries are followed by Turkey where the richest control 54.1% of the wealth.

Apart from these four countries, there is no country in the world where the richest 1% control more than half of their country's wealth.[/QUOTE]Go to Moscow, I read a couple years ago when I was there, there were 65 billionaires in the city, more than anywhere in the world, what do you think P4P prices are like LOL?

I'm surprised PI isn't #1, walk down a dirty busy road with dead dogs and women sleeping in the dirt with their infants in their arms or whole families.

Parents old people children and infants sleeping on a tiny section of sidewalk by JJ market, or even Mexico my god the disparities there are eye popping as well.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2477285]And the guy told me the prices I saw 2 rows and asked about that?

He said white guys are charged more LOL.[/QUOTE]There are tons of non P4 P places in Thailand where Farang are charged more than Thai most noticeably at tourist traps like Art in Paradise, Pattaya Floating market, etc. There is no hiding it. Signs clearly list different pricing for Thai and tourists. IIRC Thai leaders have recently said this can no longer be done in hopes of bringing back more tourists when the borders open again.

Even with every day taxis, motorbikes, and tuk tuks. Farang get charged much higher than Thai. Farang are stupid enough to pay it so why not charge more.

A possible re-opening for tourists:

[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/thailand-reopening-safe-and-sealed-covid/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=WestCoast1;2478153]A possible re-opening for tourists:

[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/thailand-reopening-safe-and-sealed-covid/index.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]"I have asked the prime minister for approval to set October 1 as the date to allow (inbound) tourists to enter," he said. "I also have requested to use Phuket as a pilot model ... and have received approval from the Center for Economic Situation Administration."[/QUOTE]Of course, only time will tell if this tentative restart actually happens then, later or at all. But when I posted earlier that I had a feeling the September 26 deadline for short term visa amnesty would likely serve as the dividing line for "out with the old, in with the new" and that a new way for tourists to enter via international flights would follow shortly thereafter, even I didn't predict it might be less than a week thereafter. LOL.

I swear I had no CESA insider information on which to base my guess. It was based solely on my observations of the general Thai mindset and behavior over the years.

Sorry I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but each day there seem to be some official getting up on their soapbox saying this or that I wonder how many government people do they have? Whatever the number none of these people can change a thing no one MP or even the PM himself he is nothing but a puppet. None of the announcements read between the lines that they are going to open anything or anywhere without a bunch of strings attached.

In the Phuket story, they have taken the " travel bubble term " now replace it with some " safe be. S. " you still need the see. O. E certificate of entry from the Thai Embassy but they don't tell you what you got to do to get one! I suggest unless you see it on paper and it reads something like " no restrictions " I just wouldn't get my hopes up! Today another official T.V article said they are " Hoping " that they will get 2 million tourists by end of year but noted you still need the C. O. E. this article got 20 plus pages of negative jokes and responses just as I noted above. Should I jump up and down and get my pom-poms out hell no I'm just too damn old and tired of all the smoke they like to blow up everyone's ass does anyone wonder why the young are on the rise to overthrow these old fuckers!

In the end, I continue to hope I'm wrong but when I read the articles and break it down it always falls apart! They are scared shit and I don't blame them each repatriates flight you have cases so if they open the doors there is no way Thailand or any country can handle the rise in cases.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478174]Sorry I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but each day there seem to be some official getting up on their soapbox saying this or that I wonder how many government people do they have? Whatever the number none of these people can change a thing no one MP or even the PM himself he is nothing but a puppet. None of the announcements read between the lines that they are going to open anything or anywhere without a bunch of strings attached.

In the Phuket story, they have taken the " travel bubble term " now replace it with some " safe be. S. " you still need the see. O. E certificate of entry from the Thai Embassy but they don't tell you what you got to do to get one! I suggest unless you see it on paper and it reads something like " no restrictions " I just wouldn't get my hopes up! Today another official T.V article said they are " Hoping " that they will get 2 million tourists by end of year but noted you still need the C. O. E. this article got 20 plus pages of negative jokes and responses just as I noted above. Should I jump up and down and get my pom-poms out hell no I'm just too damn old and tired of all the smoke they like to blow up everyone's ass does anyone wonder why the young are on the rise to overthrow these old fuckers!

In the end, I continue to hope I'm wrong but when I read the articles and break it down it always falls apart! They are scared shit and I don't blame them each repatriates flight you have cases so if they open the doors there is no way Thailand or any country can handle the rise in cases.[/QUOTE]This is the first proposal I have read that involves arriving on an island first to spend the 14 day quarantine before being permitted to transfer directly to the mainland. Kind of a two week Covid-19 leper colony. LOL.

Have you read any others like this?

The first big hurdle is to find out how the residents and business owners of Phuket feel about it. I suspect after the Tsunami and recovery not that long ago the business owners of Phuket will be on board with whatever the hell brings tourists into the area to sleep and eat somewhere on the island for at least two weeks with the possibility they might linger in the area for another week after busting out of quarantine and heading to the mainland. Yes, this is definitely for people looking to remain in Thailand at least 30-90 days with some serious money to spend. Not a bad fit for the "in with the new" concept I mentioned, imo.

I assume the proposal is being floated to see what the reaction to the idea is to Thais in Phuket and on the mainland. Same as all the other travel bubble proposals.

So far, the majority of mainland Thais DON'T want inbound flights full of tourists arriving now or the near future. But if the deal is they are only arriving on the mainland after spending 2 weeks isolated in a Phuket hotel with zero symptoms and zero positive test results, there is at least a chance not that many Thais on the mainland would object to it.

Of course, it is just as likely this proposal goes down in flames, too. However, going from no inbound flights allowed to "no restrictions" in one giant leap for Mankind is most certainly not going to happen. There is going to be some months or years of incremental movement first. And this incremental one sounds more practical and potentially effective than any of the others I have read or heard.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2478196]This is the first proposal I have read that involves arriving on an island first to spend the 14 day quarantine before being permitted to transfer directly to the mainland. Kind of a two week Covid-19 leper colony. LOL.

Have you read any others like this?

The first big hurdle is to find out how the residents and business owners of Phuket feel about it. I suspect after the Tsunami and recovery not that long ago the business owners of Phuket will be on board with whatever the hell brings tourists into the area to sleep and eat somewhere on the island for at least two weeks with the possibility they might linger in the area for another week after busting out of quarantine and heading to the mainland. Yes, this is definitely for people looking to remain in Thailand at least 30-90 days with some serious money to spend. Not a bad fit for the "in with the new" concept I mentioned, imo.

I assume the proposal is being floated to see what the reaction to the idea is to Thais in Phuket and on the mainland. Same as all the other travel bubble proposals.

So far, the majority of mainland Thais DON'T want inbound flights full of tourists arriving now or the near future. But if the deal is they are only arriving on the mainland after spending 2 weeks isolated in a Phuket hotel with zero symptoms and zero positive test results, there is at least a chance not that many Thais on the mainland would object to it.

Of course, it is just as likely this proposal goes down in flames, too. However, going from no inbound flights allowed to "no restrictions" in one giant leap for Mankind is most certainly not going to happen. There is going to be some months or years of incremental movement first. And this incremental one sounds more practical and potentially effective than any of the others I have read or heard.[/QUOTE]That is where we will have to agree to disagree! What the business and the resident want in Phuket I seriously don't think the Thai leaders even care. For example, what is going on in the USA With a number of States in Lockdown with numerous lawsuits you think these State governments really care what the business and residents think? So why would the Thai leaders care sure they go through the motion which is what they are doing now but none of them have the authority to push their agenda through as I said not even puppet man himself can do it. When it is decided Thailand is going to open up the skies he will be the spokesman that is it!

As I said try to read between the lines whenever these MP like in the Phuket case getting to the 14-day quarantine is the last part try there are like 10 steps of items you must obtain prior to even getting a flight to Thailand to be quarantine. This proposal is no different from the Elite Card or for medical tourism made two months ago which there are hardly any takers so like always they relabel stuff " hoping " charlie tuna is going to bite. If I could I tell the man to his face KEEP PRAYING plenty of Temples around to take your donations.

In general, The Thais don't have the critical thinking to break down or challenge their leaders they just follow the reason the survey result want the leaders to keep foreigners out. Anyone can put two and two together and see Thais coming back from overseas like the USA Need to be tested and quarantine as long there isn't a vaccine but reality you can't live in a bubble in today world 21st, Global when the skies open the 2nd, 3rd mutation is coming and the Thai leaders know they are unprepared.

They are just smoking the bad weed they grow here or the constant dying of their hair is affecting their thinking that no one can see thru the smoke they are blowing up everyone butt. The only credit I give them is they don't seem to have much shame getting up on their soapbox.

Whatever suggestion they make whatever small step you suggest they are making isn't going to bring in the tourist they want short or long term no one has the time or dumb enough to spend the money right now to get to the 14 day stage. I read every article particularly on T. V. The last two months and have seen two or three cases posted. The requirements are still in place whatever story you read it they don't come out and actually spell it out that they have reduced some of the restrictions then it is just another day they are blowing smoke.

I will do you a favor since you are posting so much to the envy of so many although I don't agree with the Bareback stuff each story that comes I will point out if it is smoke or actually a small step to opening.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478109]There are tons of non P4 P places in Thailand where Farang are charged more than Thai most noticeably at tourist traps like Art in Paradise, Pattaya Floating market, etc. There is no hiding it. Signs clearly list different pricing for Thai and tourists. IIRC Thai leaders have recently said this can no longer be done in hopes of bringing back more tourists when the borders open again.

Even with every day taxis, motorbikes, and tuk tuks. Farang get charged much higher than Thai. Farang are stupid enough to pay it so why not charge more.[/QUOTE]Neither of the following are discriminatory but I have always found these anomalies interesting.

Start with similar ingredients and depending which recipe is used and where it's placed on the menu you pay different prices for the finished dish. Turn it into a burger and chips and you pay say 300 baht, turn it into a massaman curry and it's yours for 200. In other words farang food costs more than Thai food even though the cost of goods is roughly the same.

Oil massages usually cost 50% to 100% more than Thai massages. OK you pay extra for the oil but that is offset by the cost of laundry with a Thai massage and the masseuse gets the same, sometimes maybe an extra 20 or 40 more for her hour.

Is it because foreigners are more likely to have oil massages and non-Thai food.

Two new articles just came over the TV wired.

One commented that it would be 5 years before Pattaya gets back to pre-covid tourist numbers so braced yourself and year to date 71% reduction in tourist. So the next highlight article is some official now he is preparing his prison population in speaking better English and he wants to open his prison as a tourist attraction so tourists can rub shoulders with how the other half lives you can't make up this shit or can you.

He doesn't mention a thing about any restrictions why because he is blowing smoke!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478219]............some official now he is preparing his prison population in speaking better English.........[/QUOTE]So you guys out there, be careful in not offending Thai law, he may want resident tutors.

This morning an article that the Hotel Association of Thailand " Demanded " that the country open up to foreigners. Where will this go the member is from a very powerful family and does have influence with the puppet man since the Hotel industry is pretty much at Zero!

But as you continue with the article it still is talking about allowing only certain countries and only into a specific location like Phuket and if that works which I really hope I'm wrong Chon Buri (Pattaya) will be next but as I noted there is no mentioned about removing all the obstacles in place just to get into quarantine! So I put this article into my smoke pile!

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2478217]Oil massages usually cost 50% to 100% more than Thai massages. OK you pay extra for the oil but that is offset by the cost of laundry with a Thai massage and the masseuse gets the same, sometimes maybe an extra 20 or 40 more for her hour.[/QUOTE]I thought asking for oil massage was the secret word for wanting extras. At least that's what I recall reading before my first trip to Thailand. After my interrupting a massage girl eating her Somtan fiasco I now clarify that the girl does extras before paying for any massage. Waste of my time if no extras are involved.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478219]One commented that it would be 5 years before Pattaya gets back to pre-covid tourist numbers [/QUOTE]Pattaya won't last 5 years. It will become a sleepy town for Thai people to take over and live. It will not be anything like you know it as today.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478331]allowing only certain countries and only into a specific location like Phuket [/QUOTE]Only for long term visitors over 30 days and still a mandatory 14 day quarantine. Pretty sure people from China can find better holiday destinations with no lengthy quarantine and only limited to staying in Phuket and Krabi by the time Thailand decides to reopen borders. The key is stays OVER 30 days only which most casual travelers who still work are unable to do and many countries only have 30 day limit Visas.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478401]I thought asking for oil massage was the secret word for wanting extras. At least that's what I recall reading before my first trip to Thailand. After my interrupting a massage girl eating her Somtan fiasco I now clarify that the girl does extras before paying for any massage. Waste of my time if no extras are involved.[/QUOTE]Yup BB if its a rub and tug its an oil massage but believe it or not there lots of people male and female who just want a massage and choose an oil massage which as I said for some inexplicable reason costs a lot more.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478403]Pattaya won't last 5 years. It will become a sleepy town for Thai people to take over and live. It will not be anything like you know it as today.

Only for long term visitors over 30 days and still a mandatory 14 day quarantine. Pretty sure people from China can find better holiday destinations with no lengthy quarantine and only limited to staying in Phuket and Krabi by the time Thailand decides to reopen borders. The key is stays OVER 30 days only which most casual travelers who still work are unable to do and many countries only have 30 day limit Visas.[/QUOTE]That is exactly what I'm trying to convey to those who read these new announcements and thinks it is a step forward when it isn't. It is the same smokescreen with a different name on it. You break it down they are grasping for straws throwing out old ideas with new names attached " HOPING " when it is just a big " PRAYER " if you stay 6 months then it might be worth the time to jump through these hoops and the only ones that can are the rich, retired or both?

Like Mr. E said anyone who spends the time to actually open their eyes when they are running around looking for pussy would see in the tourist area beach road, 2nd road the number of shops that are closed many gone forever. Many ex-pats I talk to love it that things are closed they got the place to themselves plus they are scared shit in general because of their age once they open the place up and allow any foreigner regardless of skin color it is a no brainer to me at least the next wave will come. That is why I'm making arrangements to find places to get tested and the best option for treatment even updated my personal affairs.

See I read the reports with great interest and amusement because I must be the only one who isn't thinking where my next pussy is coming. I just respect what is written and say to myself I'm glad when LBM is horny he just goes and gets it and then move on. Pattaya is dying a slow death whatever it becomes within the next year or 5 I will still be here like Mr. E said you can still get as much pussy as you want.

Last night there was an article PM O-Chan pretty much shot down all the M. P. Suggestions about opening up. This morning reported in an interview with O-Chan printed in the Bangkok Post after reading this is what I took away from it?

I believe his adviser is telling when they decided to open that is when the virus will come this is my position but when they actually do it must be done first and foremost at the health and safety of the Thai people which indicates they will still have restrictions to ensure that happens will the remove some no indication. He is also suggesting when the foreigners arrive they should be welcome since they are needed to uplift the economy especially the tourist industry and the jobs they provide which in my opinion has been severely misjudged but that doesn't mean they are going to relax immigration or treat us better? The " Welcome " remark is now to try to lower temperature or reverse the resentment towards visiting foreigners they so have instilled in their people the last few months.

Everything is supposed to be done with " Caution " but no direct indication of removing any of the restriction already in place including the final phase which is the 14 days quarantine there was mentioned of tracking the arriving aircraft, testing but like the Phuket story it was throw out to expand the quarantine area beyond the hotel which seem to mean allowing foreigners/visitor to quarantine in a particular area for example if it was in Pattaya quarantine the visitor in the beach road area? Cha-O and his advisors seem to think if this works Chon Buri and another handful of other popular destinations will be added.

In the end, regardless today story doesn't mentioned removal of the current restrictions just to get here or allow for Airline to resume their normal flight schedules?

Yesterday I was banging a disagreeable smelly hooker and to try to climax I closed my eyes and imagined that it was a Thai babe I had banged some time ago (for one tenth of the price). Covid sucks.

Here is the update on allowing foreigners into Thailand starting Oct 1st, particularly from Phuket the starting point. The new program now is called the 5-T, after reading the article the requirement is still or nearly the same as before. Need to contact your nearest Thai Royal Embassy and obtain a Certificate of Entry which requires testing evidence before and after, when arriving the last testing can't be older than 72 hours, need to have medical coverage for $100,000 USD for the length of your stay if you plan to stay a year the cost is in the range of $4-5,000 USD = 140,000 baht. Then, of course, you will be quarantined in one of their hotel's designated zone in Phuket testing the first 3-5 days and again 12-13 days. They seem to have added you must download a program on your phone so they can track your movement?

In this program, they have a list of countries that they will allow specially arranged flights Denmark, Germany, U.K. South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and later of course they favorite nation China they expect to add more flights as needed as they are sure this will be the start of something big?

Who is going to sign up?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478890]In this program, they have a list of countries that they will allow specially arranged flights Denmark, Germany, U.K. South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and later of course they favorite nation China they expect to add more flights as needed as they are sure this will be the start of something big?[/QUOTE]How does UK make this list? They got 1500+ new cases yesterday. South Korea is on the verge of a horrible wave 2 outbreak. Germany's 2nd wave is just starting.

So here's my question. If I have an American passport and have spent the past 2 weeks in Germany or UK, am I now allowed to get in to Thigh-Land because I am flying from one of the allowed countries or disqualified because I have a USA passport?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478904]How does UK make this list? They got 1500+ new cases yesterday. South Korea is on the verge of a horrible wave 2 outbreak. Germany's 2nd wave is just starting.

So here's my question. If I have an American passport and have spent the past 2 weeks in Germany or UK, am I now allowed to get in to Thigh-Land because I am flying from one of the allowed countries or disqualified because I have a USA passport?[/QUOTE]Just a guess, the key maybe it is Thai Airways chartered flights. For example, the reason US is not on the list maybe because THAI does not have an agreement to fly to US.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478904]How does UK make this list? They got 1500+ new cases yesterday. South Korea is on the verge of a horrible wave 2 outbreak. Germany's 2nd wave is just starting.

So here's my question. If I have an American passport and have spent the past 2 weeks in Germany or UK, am I now allowed to get in to Thigh-Land because I am flying from one of the allowed countries or disqualified because I have a USA passport?[/QUOTE]To be honest I have no idea maybe it is because an Ambassador has a thing for LadyBoys in Thailand and has enough juice to get them on? Mostly it is politics and what fills that list for that special person that runs this country?

Not a fact but I've heard your question before and remember someone gave me this example not sure it is an answer? For example, if you are coming from the USA Then the Certificate of Entry must come from one of the Thai Embassy that will be your origination plus your testing results must match up in which can't be less than 72 hours. So it has been thought of if a person obtains all the necessary paperwork and testing and originates on a Cathay Pacific flight out of SFO / KG connecting to BKK when you arrive that is what the I. O. Will be looking for transitting thru Hong Kong doesn't wave the requirement. Now I heard if you do what is required (Quarantine?) in Hong Kong and go through all the steps you did in USA Obtain a new Certificate of Entry and testing results in Hong Kong then you might get in. Hope that helps.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478890]Here is the update on allowing foreigners into Thailand starting Oct 1st, particularly from Phuket the starting point. The new program now is called the 5-T, after reading the article the requirement is still or nearly the same as before. Need to contact your nearest Thai Royal Embassy and obtain a Certificate of Entry which requires testing evidence before and after, when arriving the last testing can't be older than 72 hours, need to have medical coverage for $100,000 USD for the length of your stay if you plan to stay a year the cost is in the range of $4-5,000 USD = 140,000 baht. Then, of course, you will be quarantined in one of their hotel's designated zone in Phuket testing the first 3-5 days and again 12-13

Who is going to sign up?[/QUOTE]Banana Boi for one. He's also willing to spend 2 weeks in Europe for the privilege. Some of us really miss LOS!

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2479009]Banana Boi for one. He's also willing to spend 2 weeks in Europe for the privilege. Some of us really miss LOS![/QUOTE]FYI I'm not exactly a tourist. I live in Thailand. I just can't get back in! I have all my stuff there and a condo.

If I were a normal tourist there is zero chance I would consider a 14 day quarantine and jump through hoops and barrels to go to any country. The exception may be to visit Tobita Shinchi.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2479198]FYI I'm not exactly a tourist. I live in Thailand. I just can't get back in! I have all my stuff there and a condo.

If I were a normal tourist there is zero chance I would consider a 14 day quarantine and jump through hoops and barrels to go to any country. The exception may be to visit Tobita Shinchi.[/QUOTE]Today's Bangkok Post has another piece on the "isolation island" plan [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1976599/long-stay-visits-possible-this-winter[/URL] . It should be noted that the main guy being quoted in the article is a "Healthcare magnate" and one who possibly is trying to branch out into tourism. Or perhaps he sees a business opportunity in "accidentally" importing people who test positive in quarantine and filling his empty private hospitals with them. I know I am a cynic.

The article quotes a senior military (and therefore possibly Government) guy as saying the scheme would be for the likes of property owners and long-stay visitors, but expected numbers in the hundreds.

With regard to your previous question about passport. It is where you've been not what your nationality is that counts. However, whether you'd be able to pitch up in one of the countries they are going to fly from and get a flight reservation (the plan seems to be charter only which will likely be administered through the Embassy / Consulate) followed by a Certificate of Entry is a moot point. You could find yourself expecting to stay in the departure country for 2 to 3 weeks only to be told "next available charter flight 8 weeks time". Your then stuck in Copenhagen, Cologne or Croydon for the duration.

I would agree with the other answer that US isn't on the list as Thai haven't flown there for yonks. The powers that be love to blame the woes of Thai Airways on the losses on the corrupt purchase of gas guzzling planes for US routes, conveniently forgetting all the fat cattery, mismanagement and general snouts to the trough over the years. It may be that even if they wanted to fly to and from the US for the "snowbird" market the planes could be impounded by the creditors there where the bankruptcy protection isn't recognised.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2479213]

With regard to your previous question about passport. It is where you've been not what your nationality is that counts.[/QUOTE]From what I've read this is unclear.

Also, if you have to go through a Thai embassy which embassy would it be? Any other Thai embassy than the one in the country where you reside or the one in your home country could refuse to process your application (same as with visas).

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2479213]Today's Bangkok Post has another piece on the "isolation island" plan [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1976599/long-stay-visits-possible-this-winter[/URL] . It should be noted that the main guy being quoted in the article is a "Healthcare magnate" and one who possibly is trying to branch out into tourism. Or perhaps he sees a business opportunity in "accidentally" importing people who test positive in quarantine and filling his empty private hospitals with them. I know I am a cynic.

The article quotes a senior military (and therefore possibly Government) guy as saying the scheme would be for the likes of property owners and long-stay visitors, but expected numbers in the hundreds.

With regard to your previous question about passport. It is where you've been not what your nationality is that counts. However, whether you'd be able to pitch up in one of the countries they are going to fly from and get a flight reservation (the plan seems to be charter only which will likely be administered through the Embassy / Consulate) followed by a Certificate of Entry is a moot point. You could find yourself expecting to stay in the departure country for 2 to 3 weeks only to be told "next available charter flight 8 weeks time". Your then stuck in Copenhagen, Cologne or Croydon for the duration.

I would agree with the other answer that US isn't on the list as Thai haven't flown there for yonks. The powers that be love to blame the woes of Thai Airways on the losses on the corrupt purchase of gas guzzling planes for US routes, conveniently forgetting all the fat cattery, mismanagement and general snouts to the trough over the years. It may be that even if they wanted to fly to and from the US for the "snowbird" market the planes could be impounded by the creditors there where the bankruptcy protection isn't recognised.[/QUOTE]Some get it some don't? That is what I've been saying each day there are a number of articles posted on T. V. Or Bangkok Post some believe everything they read and some like me I take it with a grain of salt especially when it comes to Thailand.

I wouldn't even try to spell these guys names they are longer than the reports but this morning an article saying don't get your hopes up about the Phuket plan which is no different than the other plans already mentioned. Some Hotel tourist President chimes in that they are hurting and need to open things up but no who it is the main puppet Chan O with his advisor put the brakes on to all the suggestions by everyone including the Phuket suggestion to basically slow down things aren't going to open!

Response to the Phuket suggestion today it is a no go? Article today a known Doctor from their University (Chula) said don't open it up for another six months if you do it would be like the end of the world! Another article by a Thai saying country has got to open if not the locals are finished?

From the beginning, you got two camps of thought those from the science field whose livelihood is protected by a government paycheck just like a guy like Dr. Faci, see Faci know his stuff but anyone ever wonder why at his age he is still at it? It is easy money so why retire whether there is a pandemic or not he gets his paycheck every two weeks total in a year over 500,000 USD then you got those government Economist same situation and opinion reality they don't feel the pain so they stick with their opinions and situation, in the end, the politicians has to make the decision right or wrong!

So regardless of the article when you see clearly puppet O, comes out and say Open removing the majority of the restrictions which are in place there is no light at the end of the tunnel that tunnel is full of smoke if within that smoke there is light or even a dim one that leads to something I'm glad to be wrong!

Thai Airways is dead they aren't the only ones in the game no matter how hard the government keeps their doors open they can't even fly between LAX-BKK if the U.S. want entry all they got to do is deliever a few old cheap subs?

Which bright spark in uniform thought that people will put themselves through the following to sit on a beach in Phuket and or OK get shagged.

Book a flight plus hotel not knowing they will get to use either.

Arrange a covid test with results needed not more than 72 hours before departure (less than straight forward in lots of countries).

Find $100 K health insurance cover which includes Covid (can be prohibitively expensive depending on age).

Visit a Thai embassy or consulate in person to file the application and return to pick up certificate to fly in the fortuitous event you get one.

Arrive in Thailand and go straight to into a strict quarantine for 14 days and get tested twice before you start your holiday.

Pay all fees associated with the process.

No doubt they will be some but there has got to be a better simpler way to allow visitors back while minimizing the risk of bringing Covid with them. There is but don't hold your breath waiting.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2479235]Some get it some don't? That is what I've been saying each day there are a number of articles posted on T. V. Or Bangkok Post some believe everything they read and some like me I take it with a grain of salt especially when it comes to Thailand.[/QUOTE]It seems the people writing those articles are just as bored as the mongers that read them.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2479258]It seems the people writing those articles are just as bored as the mongers that read them.[/QUOTE]The ability and the power of the pen aren't what it suppose to be here in Thailand by the long shot. As for the boredom of the reader? It is more I don't see what some are seeing?

[QUOTE=XXL;2479224]From what I've read this is unclear.

Also, if you have to go through a Thai embassy which embassy would it be? Any other Thai embassy than the one in the country where you reside or the one in your home country could refuse to process your application (same as with visas).[/QUOTE]XXL,

As LBM wisely points out there's a lot of "if it happens" which I tried to hint at by pointing out that they were quoting a "health magnate" on tourism and immigration issues.

As to which embassy? It will only ever be the one in the departure country. The Embassy in Pretoria, Den Haag or Bogota are unlikely to know anything about flights and certificates of entry from Denmark. That's why I pointed out the risk of BB looking to get in via a third country. I wouldn't wish Croydon on the worst of my many enemies!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2479198]FYI I'm not exactly a tourist. I live in Thailand. I just can't get back in! I have all my stuff there and a condo.

If I were a normal tourist there is zero chance I would consider a 14 day quarantine and jump through hoops and barrels to go to any country. The exception may be to visit Tobita Shinchi.[/QUOTE]I should have known better, my mistake.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2447975]Totally forgot I have one gogo girl paying for my monthly storage locker fee and a civilian girl topping up my phone monthly so my Thai number doesn't get cancelled.[/QUOTE]Since I am leaving soon, I went over to AIS to see if they could keep my number active without doing the frequent top up method described before. It was showing in my phone that I had enough credit and was already set for the one year, but if I did not then the lady said it would only be 50 baht for her to make my number active in the system for 1 year. 1 year is the maximum that it can be done for.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2480207] the lady said it would only be 50 baht for her to make my number active in the system for 1 year. 1 year is the maximum that it can be done for.[/QUOTE]I'd love to pay B50 to keep my number but don't know how to do it. I'm topping up B30 from the USA Every month or so to keep my number. I looked for a way to reach their customer service from the US via their website and the myAIS app on my phone but can't find anything in English.

I just picked up a new 5 G phone. Has anybody used 5 G in Thailand? I thought their 4 G and even 3 G was good.

Not sure if it is possible or offer any longer? I have AIS or 1-2 Call although I've had my number for over 15 years each time I top up those minutes are good for 1 year. Several years ago we needed to obtain a new number for my son's phone AIS and he indicated you can pick certain numbers or Sim cards that allow you to retain the minutes for a year like what I have had for all these years. I don't remember the cost to even be noticeable higher when we purchase it.

Nevertheless, stocks going up particularly the Nasdaq due to a vaccine getting closer to being on the market. CDC of course political decision Nov 1st?

Not sure 5 G exists in Thailand it is just talk?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2480514]Not sure if it is possible or offer any longer?[/QUOTE]LBM,

With both AIS (including 1-2-Call) and True Move any top-up adds 1 month to the validity of the entire balance up to 1 year maximum. So 10 top-ups of 20 baht adds 10 months, a single top-up of 200 adds just 1 month.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2480514]Not sure 5 G exists in Thailand it is just talk?[/QUOTE]Back in May they announced a 26 member committee to "spearhead the roll-out of 5 G networks". Someone more cynical than I would suggest that a single mast will be unveiled to great fanfare sometime soon followed by years of expense claims by the committee, delegation to working parties (of relations and / or more military officers all claiming bountiful expenses) and contracts awarded to construction, food & farming and healthcare conglomerates.

Thankfully I am not such a cynic and am sure that Thai 5 G will be up and running brilliantly in the near future. Well in a corner of Bavaria at least.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2480207]it would only be 50 baht for her to make my number active in the system for 1 year. 1 year is the maximum that it can be done for.[/QUOTE]Good to know.

[QUOTE=Allover;2480303]I'd love to pay B50 to keep my number but don't know how to do it. I'm topping up B30 from the USA Every month or so to keep my number.[/QUOTE]You only need to top up 20 baht per month. You don't need to do it on a month to month basis. You can obtain at least a 6 month extension by doing 6 separate 20 baht deposits at the same time on the AIS app.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2480557]LBM,

With both AIS (including 1-2-Call) and True Move any top-up adds 1 month to the validity of the entire balance up to 1 year maximum. So 10 top-ups of 20 baht adds 10 months, a single top-up of 200 adds just 1 month.

Back in May they announced a 26 member committee to "spearhead the roll-out of 5 G networks". Someone more cynical than I would suggest that a single mast will be unveiled to great fanfare sometime soon followed by years of expense claims by the committee, delegation to working parties (of relations and / or more military officers all claiming bountiful expenses) and contracts awarded to construction, food & farming and healthcare conglomerates.

Thankfully I am not such a cynic and am sure that Thai 5 G will be up and running brilliantly in the near future. Well in a corner of Bavaria at least.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I don't know all the tech stuff like you but I usually top off at a 100 baht at a time I don't use my phone much except to call home to good old mom but when I do it is only for a few minutes. I like to retain about 150 baht at a time there are times I don't top off for 2 to 3 months I remember in the past after topping off they would give me my balance and indicate how long it was good for which was a year for the day I topped off? 2016 I was gone from Thailand for 4 months never had to top off to keep things going.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2480207]Since I am leaving soon, I went over to AIS to see if they could keep my number active without doing the frequent top up method described before. It was showing in my phone that I had enough credit and was already set for the one year, but if I did not then the lady said it would only be 50 baht for her to make my number active in the system for 1 year. 1 year is the maximum that it can be done for.[/QUOTE]I just went up to AIS to top someone's phone up. I talked to a different lady and she said it was 50 baht PER MONTH to do it. I told her that makes no sense when you can do it at a machine or online for only 20 or 30 baht.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2480207]Since I am leaving soon, [/QUOTE]Are you leaving by choice because Thailand has made another 180 on tourists.

[URL]https://www.thephuketnews.com/tourists-to-get-unlimited-30-day-extensions-to-stay-after-visa-amnesty-ends-77201.php[/URL]

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2480736]Are you leaving by choice because Thailand has made another 180 on tourists.

[URL]https://www.thephuketnews.com/tourists-to-get-unlimited-30-day-extensions-to-stay-after-visa-amnesty-ends-77201.php[/URL][/QUOTE]Did you read the full article? It specifies for " Medical Reasons " for the unlimited extension.

". The Thai baht rose to a six-year high against the dollar last year to become one of the world's most stable currencies. Though it has depreciated in the past two months, it is still significantly stronger compared to three or four years ago. Seen as a safe bet amid the USA -China trade war, the baht has caused visitor numbers to drop and hotel occupancy rates to halve.

But for those living here on fixed savings or pensions, the baht's strength has decimated their income. British expats have lost about 30% of their purchasing power following the pound's plummet in the wake of Brexit.

Applicants must now also have health insurance. For someone aged 75, for example, that is a "big problem" as the premium could be as much as 100,000 baht per month, said Sebastian Brousseau, CEO of Isaan Lawyers.

Gerry, a USA Navy veteran who declined to give his last name, first visited back then and has stayed ever since. At 83, alone and estranged from his family, Gerry has built his life here. But barely able to cover his living costs, let alone the deposit he now needs for a visa, he feels trapped, having been "out of the USA System" for more than 30 years.

Gerry does not own property here, but for those who do, a downturn in the real estate market has dashed their chances of a quick sell.

Demand for properties has waned since last year as many expats, disgruntled with Thailand's tightening immigration system, have moved to other parts of Asia, while China has imposed new controls to curb capital flight, said Jean Charles, the founder of TwoFlat Real Estate. The situation has intensified Thailand's glut, which is set to worsen with arrival numbers decimated by the new coronavirus. ".

What remains of the interest of living in Thailand if incomes decline because of the prohibitive costs of health insurance and the unfavorable exchange rate? No more girls, uncomfortable accommodation.... The future seems to be moving in this direction. Taking a bet over 20 years or even over 10 or 5 years to come and settle in Thailand seems risky.

The full press article: [URL]https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-retirees-see-their-good-life-slip-away[/URL].

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2481833]". The Thai baht rose to a six-year high against the dollar last year to become one of the world's most stable currencies. Though it has depreciated in the past two months, it is still significantly stronger compared to three or four years ago. Seen as a safe bet amid the USA -China trade war, the baht has caused visitor numbers to drop and hotel occupancy rates to halve.

But for those living here on fixed savings or pensions, the baht's strength has decimated their income. British expats have lost about 30% of their purchasing power following the pound's plummet in the wake of Brexit.

Applicants must now also have health insurance. For someone aged 75, for example, that is a "big problem" as the premium could be as much as 100,000 baht per month, said Sebastian Brousseau, CEO of Isaan Lawyers.

Gerry, a USA Navy veteran who declined to give his last name, first visited back then and has stayed ever since. At 83, alone and estranged from his family, Gerry has built his life here. But barely able to cover his living costs, let alone the deposit he now needs for a visa, he feels trapped, having been "out of the USA System" for more than 30 years.

Gerry does not own property here, but for those who do, a downturn in the real estate market has dashed their chances of a quick sell.

Demand for properties has waned since last year as many expats, disgruntled with Thailand's tightening immigration system, have moved to other parts of Asia, while China has imposed new controls to curb capital flight, said Jean Charles, the founder of TwoFlat Real Estate. The situation has intensified Thailand's glut, which is set to worsen with arrival numbers decimated by the new coronavirus. ".

What remains of the interest of living in Thailand if incomes decline because of the prohibitive costs of health insurance and the unfavorable exchange rate? No more girls, uncomfortable accommodation.... The future seems to be moving in this direction. Taking a bet over 20 years or even over 10 or 5 years to come and settle in Thailand seems risky.

The full press article: [URL]https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-retirees-see-their-good-life-slip-away[/URL].[/QUOTE]It would be helpful to know a few things not mentioned in that article;

How much of a monthly pension does 83 year old Gerry get as a USA Navy retiree who has been "out of the USA system" since he was about 50? Is he not receiving at least the minimum 65,000 THB per month required? If it is notably less than that and he has been skating by on a bogus notarized Income Verification Letter from the USA Embassy over the past many years then it was foolish for him not to have saved and set aside a small portion of his income over those past 3 damn decades until he had enough of a Thai bank deposit to offset the difference.

"Estranged from his wife." Is his wife Thai? If so and he can prove it, I think he can qualify for an annual retirement visa with only a 45,000 THB monthly income stream, not 65,000 THB. I forget what the one time only lump sum deposit in a Thai bank would be in that case but I'm guessing it must be more like 500,000 THB instead of 800,000 THB.

The new health insurance requirement might also be waved or greatly reduced if he is married to a Thai and applies for the pertinent visa based on marriage. Not sure about that since I don't choose to utilize that visa option.

Regarding another comment in the article that health insurance premiums for a 75 year old "could be as high as 100,000 THB per month," yeah, that is shockingly high for the required 40,000 THB of out-patient coverage and 400,000 THB of in-patient coverage. Of course, I don't know what my premium for the required coverage will look like in 7 years. But if it jumps from about 4,000 THB per month, which is roughly what it is now, to 100,000 THB per month I suppose I will have to take another look at the Philippines as my new retirement home country.

Until then, being retired in Thailand is still interesting to me. Glad I'm here and not in the USA right now. Or many other places on Earth.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2481833]"The full press article: [URL]https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-retirees-see-their-good-life-slip-away[/URL].[/QUOTE]Article dated 5-March. Of course nothing in the world has changed since then. Or have I missed something?

I notice it also pushes the Elite Visa of which there were around 9,000 active members at the start of the year (https://www.imidaily.com/asia-pacific/after-record-2019-thailand-elite-visa-eyes-10000-member-milestone-in-2020/ for those who wish to check my source).

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2481896]Article dated 5-March. Of course nothing has changed since then. Or have I missed something?[/QUOTE]Yes, a lot has changed for outsiders trying to get into the country on a new visa since then. Like from possible to virtually impossible on the near horizon. But I don't think much has changed for in country expats needing to renew their O-A Non Immigrant retirement visas since then. No new or radically different income/health insurance requirements or THB-USD exchange rates for us since then, that is.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2481902]Yes, a lot has changed for outsiders trying to get into the country on a new visa since then. Like from possible to virtually impossible on the near horizon. But I don't think much has changed for in country expats needing to renew their O-A Non Immigrant retirement visas since then. No new or radically different income/health insurance requirements or THB-USD exchange rates for us since then, that is.[/QUOTE]And maybe the 83 year old who's struggling financially is now relieved to be living in an area where his life is not at major risk of the virus? THB-USD rates may be similar but against Euro and Sterling THB is at or near 12 month lows.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2481844]It would be helpful to know a few things not mentioned in that article;

How much of a monthly pension does 83 year old Gerry get as a USA Navy retiree who has been "out of the USA system" since he was about 50? Is he not receiving at least the minimum 65,000 THB per month required? If it is notably less than that and he has been skating by on a bogus notarized Income Verification Letter from the USA Embassy over the past many years then it was foolish for him not to have saved and set aside a small portion of his income over those past 3 damn decades until he had enough of a Thai bank deposit to offset the difference.
.[/QUOTE]The article doesn't state for sure that he is a military retiree. If he was, he should have enough income. Military retirement is linked to inflation so it increases over time. Also even military retirees can apply for social security payments when they turn 65. Of course, in divorce settlements you can loose a lot of your income. And having a vengeful ex would be reason to stay "out of the system".

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2478331]This morning an article that the Hotel Association of Thailand " Demanded " that the country open up to foreigners. Where will this go the member is from a very powerful family and does have influence with the puppet man since the Hotel industry is pretty much at Zero!

But as you continue with the article it still is talking about allowing only certain countries and only into a specific location like Phuket and if that works which I really hope I'm wrong Chon Buri (Pattaya) will be next but as I noted there is no mentioned about removing all the obstacles in place just to get into quarantine! So I put this article into my smoke pile![/QUOTE]I think a lot of people would be willing to do the 14 day quarantine for a 1+ month trip, assuming you can choose a decent hotel to do it in. Things are dead here and every hotel is hurting for money; they can't continue as is for much longer without serious harm to the economy in Phuket. Pattaya also more or less dead right now.

FYI.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thailand-to-finalize-entry-plan-for-foreign-visitors-by-october/ar-BB18QvMs[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheCritic;2482109]FYI.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thailand-to-finalize-entry-plan-for-foreign-visitors-by-october/ar-BB18QvMs[/URL][/QUOTE]I doubt it will be soon. There is talk about opening up Phuket for long visits but you have to stay in quarantine for two weeks and then stay on the island at least one week more, they is suggestions that tracking braclets might be part of it. All this is just ideas at the moment and I have yet to hear that it's going to happen. Thailand is still repatriating citizens at this time, in addition certain limited classes of foreigners in small amounts. I also hear that the Alternate State Quarantine hotels are pretty full right now.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2482145]I doubt it will be soon. There is talk about opening up Phuket for long visits but you have to stay in quarantine for two weeks and then stay on the island at least one week more, they is suggestions that tracking braclets might be part of it. All this is just ideas at the moment and I have yet to hear that it's going to happen. Thailand is still repatriating citizens at this time, in addition certain limited classes of foreigners in small amounts. I also hear that the Alternate State Quarantine hotels are pretty full right now.[/QUOTE]Tracking bracelets? You got to be real desperate to allow yourself to be treated like a criminal just to get some Thai poontang.

[QUOTE=ThaiX;2482086]I think a lot of people would be willing to do the 14 day quarantine for a 1+ month trip, assuming you can choose a decent hotel to do it in. Things are dead here and every hotel is hurting for money; they can't continue as is for much longer without serious harm to the economy in Phuket. Pattaya also more or less dead right now.[/QUOTE]Understand that quarantine doesn't mean a "stay home order" or self isolation. All hotels that act as quarantine facilities have to be certified by the Health Ministry, residents (inmates?) are in isolation at least until the 5 day Covid test comes back and then might be allowed a turn round the pool or garden for an hour a day. Meals are left outside the room by PPE suited staff. Food delivery (Grab / Foodpanda) not permitted. Alcohol not permitted. Leaving the hotel not permitted.

I don't know what you would view as "a lot" but the numbers quoted for the Phuket scheme were hundreds per week not thousands and it would require specially arranged charter flights. The suggested target market was those wanting to stay 90 days or more.

In terms of even that happening there was a fact finding trip to Phuket over the long holiday weekend which included a public meeting at which the majority were against. That in the most tourism dependent province of Thailand. Also note that the activist / reformists are certainly not calling for relaxation of border controls.

[QUOTE=TheCritic;2482109]FYI.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thailand-to-finalize-entry-plan-for-foreign-visitors-by-october/ar-BB18QvMs[/URL][/QUOTE]I hope it is but every day there is something old all dress up as new. This story said nothing that hasn't been said already, to be honest, I would gladly do a 14 day if that is all they want. Maybe you guys missed the other announcement the PM has basically shut down, slow down every idea and that includes the Phuket one. Today the Phuket Hotel Association? They need help or it is over for them they can't last the year. There just aren't any takers with all the restrictions even with a vaccine it would take at least two months for the signs to be positive that it is slowing down the virus plus airlines must be given a positive sign before they pull out the aircraft and get them ready which takes time!

The case with the DJ pretty much shot every idea down plus the inability to contain the borders Myramar and which has an outbreak and have no equipment or space to treat patients even if the skies open they aren't medically ready to handle the wave as of today they have done nothing to prepare throughout the country. Whether they know it or not the economy has already been damage they just refuse to admit otherwise their baht would drop instead it is being propped up by the rich.

[QUOTE=TheCritic;2482109]FYI.

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thailand-to-finalize-entry-plan-for-foreign-visitors-by-october/ar-BB18QvMs[/URL][/QUOTE]More likely:

Soon:

[URL]https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/thailand-hospitals-appeal-for-aid-against-covid-19/1965264[/URL]#.

Dream on if you guys are thinking of getting in to Thailand any time soon. The girls I know in Thailand are freaking out that there are 7 new cases in Thailand today today. As LBM states, the PM has shut down the Phuket option and China has been banned now because they had 7 new cases today.

On the bright side, the FKK clubs are slowly reopening even during a 2nd wave in Germany. Think of alternate plans on where to travel guys cause Thailand will not be in the cards for a LONG TIME!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2482413]Dream on if you guys are thinking of getting in to Thailand any time soon. The girls I know in Thailand are freaking out that there are 7 new cases in Thailand today today. As LBM states, the PM has shut down the Phuket option and China has been banned now because they had 7 new cases today.

On the bright side, the FKK clubs are slowly reopening even during a 2nd wave in Germany. Think of alternate plans on where to travel guys cause Thailand will not be in the cards for a LONG TIME![/QUOTE]I really don't like being so negative about their ideas but it doesn't take much to do so! I will be the first person that would like them to be right and be able to leave Thailand just for a few moments get back to S. F. see my mother and beautiful nephew who has special needs seeing him and getting one of his big hugs brings life back to me mentally. Sure the USA Isn't the same certainly my home town isn't but right now I dream of sitting at my favorite local donut shop having a cup of java and watching all the homeless outside, human shit everywhere, the smell of urine at every post office mailbox sitting on the corner, down and out guys pacing up and down talking to themselves with their pants hanging down to their knees.

Living here year-round strictly with Thais dealing with them (in general) especially the way they think it wears you down mentally the frustration leaves me unable at times to even want to be with other Thai women, to be honest even if it was free? Once or twice a year, I get into the dog house there right now frustrated as hell that it would be really tough to get LBM to rise to the occasion?

I would love to be wrong things are dying whether they want to admit it or not if they got to trace and check 1000 just because one guy can you imagine if they open up? Especially if there is nothing in place as for testing, treating when the wave does come but they never stop with all the bright ideas like spending over 2 billion baht to make Bali Hai pier a crown jewel of Pattaya.

Dream on but I wake up with sweats that I'm still here need a break bad and in another month I got to visit the wife farm no hot water, no a/c, sleep on a wooden floor, bugs everywhere mosquitoes are terrorist they bit through your clothes then I got to squat to get the job done at my age I must have done something GOD can't forgive I squat naked one hand got the scoop of water and on the other a finger up the ass trying to dig it clean. At times I think I'm already in hell? And all you guys are thinking of coming in?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2481844]It would be helpful to know a few things not mentioned in that article;

How much of a monthly pension does 83 year old Gerry get as a USA Navy retiree who has been "out of the USA system" since he was about 50? Is he not receiving at least the minimum 65,000 THB per month required? If it is notably less than that and he has been skating by on a bogus notarized Income Verification Letter from the USA Embassy over the past many years then it was foolish for him not to have saved and set aside a small portion of his income over those past 3 damn decades until he had enough of a Thai bank deposit to offset the difference.

"Estranged from his wife." Is his wife Thai? If so and he can prove it, I think he can qualify for an annual retirement visa with only a 45,000 THB monthly income stream, not 65,000 THB. I forget what the one time only lump sum deposit in a Thai bank would be in that case but I'm guessing it must be more like 500,000 THB instead of 800,000 THB.

The new health insurance requirement might also be waved or greatly reduced if he is married to a Thai and applies for the pertinent visa based on marriage. Not sure about that since I don't choose to utilize that visa option.

Regarding another comment in the article that health insurance premiums for a 75 year old "could be as high as 100,000 THB per month," yeah, that is shockingly high for the required 40,000 THB of out-patient coverage and 400,000 THB of in-patient coverage. Of course, I don't know what my premium for the required coverage will look like in 7 years. But if it jumps from about 4,000 THB per month, which is roughly what it is now, to 100,000 THB per month I suppose I will have to take another look at the Philippines as my new retirement home country.

Until then, being retired in Thailand is still interesting to me. Glad I'm here and not in the USA right now. Or many other places on Earth.[/QUOTE]Fforu.

I've not lived here as some of you but what I do know from my experience I run into a number of Expat been here 25 years and it is if they have been in a bubble their whole time. If you go on the T. V. Forum you see the posting and comments that re-enforces my position. For example when it comes to applying for Visa day in day out for years even when things have been in place and they have been applying for years ask a question as if they have been dead and buried. After near two years questions still about how much you need to have in the bank for a retirement O? Then start to read the responses after the first page you no longer even know what the topic is about. I shake my head and pray LBM when is it all going to hit me will I end up going to the market one day and forgetting to put my shorts on?

I know a lot of Expat who are younger than this 83-year-old guy you be surprised how they get along although we are here and talking about Thailand people are the same everywhere human nature here in Thailand doesn't change much. There are guys who overthink everything try to make sure to head off everything I'm one of them then you got guys " mai pen rai " rolls off them and live for today. I knew a guy like this from the forum had the best of time living like a King couldn't even spend his Social Security check said when it is time he would just drop dead that is exactly what happened.

I know and meet guys in Pattaya that based on their story rate in 4-5,000 USD a month but have no savings never been to the doctor now they are fucked. I know Brits who came here when the baht was 80-1 live in a mansion on the Darkside drive a Benz now they are fucked never having a second thought it might drop these are guys who live and keep up with the Jones, live for tomorrow and tomorrow is here and they are fucked? Living here in Pattaya or Bangkok it isn't the same as other parts of the country you live in a bubble don't need to learn the language and have plenty of resources to get what you want. For example, my mother 102 now came to America (S. F.) in 1944 from China never had an education but she never learns how to speak English? What for she had Chinatown! They had all the resources how to obtain her citizenship she came and went unless you knew her would never guess she couldn't speak very much English. It is amusing when she gets cold calls, once she hears English she knows to say " no speak English and hangs up " I think she did this 2 years ago when Trump called on her 100th?

I think I see these 83-year guys all the times at Windmill, I see them throughout the town at night in particular Gogo these are the ones who know which one serving cheap draft beer go into a club like Dollhouse or Beaver all the guys with promotion draft beer are these 83-year-old guys. How they get by? They just do somehow? A while back before the name was changed to Beaver (Baby Dolls) I've seen this guy in town for a number of years I was checking the place out he comes in and ended up near me the odor nearly knock me over but all girls knew him he was buying drinks but before I got up and left as cheap as water is here and clothes I said what the fuck come on have some pride in yourself?

People like this guy are everywhere a year ago I met this one guy from S. F. Through another he was getting 5000 USD a month living down on Soi Buakhao renting a room for 4000 baht he wanted to borrow money from my friend in the conversation he was sending the majority of his money to some girl in Isan who he hasn't seen in a year haven't fuck her in 4 years then you got the friend who is like Charlie Tuna no one wants him each time he gets hooked and he is thrown back into the sea he takes the bait again whenever he comes to Thailand as soon as he lands he walks out thinks he is Bill Gates? Starts to throw money around saying these people need help I say to him if you want to help why not just give your money to Father Ray the guy has never stepped into a church back home. Two years ago he purchased a 2. 5 million baht home for a maid that clean his hotel room he never fucked and doesn't plan to fuck. Believe it or not, there are guys out there this same guy is so cheap he wouldn't buy me a cup of coffee.

People are funny tough to put a finger on them as to how they get by but they do? When it comes to family I think the article is referring to where he came from when you are at 83, and live here as long as he has those back home are mostly dead and those who aren't don't even know who he is for myself I have a big family but the only ones I know and keep in contact with are my first cousins I have something like 200 nieces and nephews I've never seen or met. I'm not this 83 year old with no money but one day I will be estranged from my family like him?

People are funny we are all different but not much when you get right down to it?

Just announced! next week the cabinet is meeting to discuss another idea this time TAT wants to offer 90 days visa allowing thereafter the tourist to renew twice at 2000 baht a pop this allows the tourist to stay up to 270 days like always they list all the numbers how many jobs are going to be affected etc etc, hinted that they will offer countries with a low number like from Europe but the article provides little information whether they have to jump through all the hoops like before? Wait and see?

In the best case, in the event that a vaccine ends up being found, then distributed to the entire Thai population (end of 2021 ?) It will not be completely effective. In young adults, the effectiveness of the vaccine against seasonal influenza is considered to be in the order of 60 to 70% depending on the year. It works less well for the elderly, those who have the highest risk of complications and 90% of deaths are people over 65 years old.

There will never be zero risk in the face of COVID 19. The strategy of countries which aim for 0 cases condemns them to let their borders be closed until the virus disappears on its own, including with a vaccine available, this which can last maybe several more years, until another virus appears....

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2482446].....................People like this guy are everywhere a year ago I met this one guy from S. F. Through another he was getting 5000 USD a month living down on Soi Buakhao renting a room for 4000 baht he wanted to borrow money from my friend in the conversation he was sending the majority of his money to some girl in Isan who he hasn't seen in a year haven't fuck her in 4 years .................[/QUOTE]I do not ponder on blokes spending money as they wish as long as its not my money.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2482492]It works less well for the elderly, those who have the highest risk of complications and 90% of deaths are people over 65 years old.

There will never be zero risk in the face of COVID 19.[/QUOTE]And what percentage of deaths from all causes are in people aged 65+?

Influenza is not a single virus but a group of viruses which cause the same symptoms. Most of these have relativly unstable genomes which increase the frequency of clinically significant mutations which render vaccine ineffective. There is the added complication of the powers that be having to choose in advance which strains to vaccinate for which is an educated guess at best.

SARS-CoV-2 is a single virus. Thus far the genome has been stable. Indeed just enough instability to be useful epidemiologically. For instance the big source of infection in the Americas can be traced as having come from Europe because the early patients had a mutation only previously found in Europe (and since exported back to Asia). Indeed the cousin coronaviruses SARS and MERS were in some ways victims of their own demise as whilst they were far more deadly than SARS-CoV-2 they didn't mutate to be any where near as transmissible.

This stability makes the potential for a successful vaccine far greater. A more suitable comparator than influenza might be Smallpox where the genome was near bullet proof meaning that vaccination was massively successful. Of course the knowledge of the Smallpox genome came long after the disease had been eradicated through vaccination.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2482565]

SARS-CoV-2 is a single virus. Thus far the genome has been stable.

....This stability makes the potential for a successful vaccine far greater..[/QUOTE]

"We know that the virus constantly undergoes many mutations: according to the Chinese National Center for Bio-information, more than 7,551 mutations have been recorded.

....Could the Covid-19 epidemic then disappear on its own? It is far too early to say, cautiously advance the authors, especially since we do not know the frequency of this strain. Barely 16,000 genomes of the virus have been sequenced to date, "which represents less than 0.5% of circulating strains," reports Efrem Lim.

....These repeated mutations could jeopardize the development of a vaccine, especially those directed at surface proteins, they conclude.".

Futura Sante August 2020 according to The Cell (among others).

https://www.futura-sciences.com/sante/actualites/coronavirus-coronavirus-il-devenu-moins-virulent-80914/

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2482573]"We know that the virus constantly undergoes many mutations: according to the Chinese National Center for Bio-information, more than 7,551 mutations have been recorded.

....Could the Covid-19 epidemic then disappear on its own? It is far too early to say, cautiously advance the authors, especially since we do not know the frequency of this strain. Barely 16,000 genomes of the virus have been sequenced to date, "which represents less than 0.5% of circulating strains," reports Efrem Lim.

....These repeated mutations could jeopardize the development of a vaccine, especially those directed at surface proteins, they conclude.".

Futura Sante August 2020 according to The Cell (among others).

https://www.futura-sciences.com/sante/actualites/coronavirus-coronavirus-il-devenu-moins-virulent-80914/[/QUOTE]In this day and age, no one should rely on anything coming out of the PRC or CCP. At this point, even the WHO is totally unreliable. Anyone trying to discredit the vaccines being developed are the puppets of the CCP, the Biden campaign or Democratic Party. The PRC and CCP are doing anything to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2482515]I do not ponder on blokes spending money as they wish as long as its not my money.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't call it exactly pondering but unless you are deaf and blind tough to watch what is being heard right in front of you live and in color and not have an opinion especially when the individuals start to ask to borrow money then complain later the lady is spoiled and now wants more money complaining about opening the can of worms they opened. One can stretch " pondering " to a lot of things being said here including if one doesn't ponder then why the responds?

At this point I think countries like thailand aren't actually waiting for that, they are waiting for a semi-accepted vaccine. Does it matter if the vaccine actually works? Of course not, but it will save face for everyone who has crashed their economies. When the infections pick up they will just not test or bury the numbers and proceed with whatever the best treatment protocal is at the time. It's all about the show, they need to say they are only allowing vaccinated people in, even though any vaccination certification will be half fraudulent as well since there is no world wide agency capable of administering such a thing.

However to be a little less cynical. In theory you just need the are value of transmission low enough and the virus will generally die out. Given the herd immunity the USA is barrelling towards and that some others will get to as well, even if a vaccine is say 20% effective it may be enough to get that are transmission value low enough.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2482492]In the best case, in the event that a vaccine ends up being found, then distributed to the entire Thai population (end of 2021 ?) It will not be completely effective. In young adults, the effectiveness of the vaccine against seasonal influenza is considered to be in the order of 60 to 70% depending on the year. It works less well for the elderly, those who have the highest risk of complications and 90% of deaths are people over 65 years old.

There will never be zero risk in the face of COVID 19. The strategy of countries which aim for 0 cases condemns them to let their borders be closed until the virus disappears on its own, including with a vaccine available, this which can last maybe several more years, until another virus appears....[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2482586]The PRC and CCP are doing anything to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.[/QUOTE]And do they do bad stuff as well as these good deeds?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2482433]Living here year-round strictly with Thais dealing with them (in general) especially the way they think it wears you down mentally the frustration leaves me unable at times to even want to be with other Thai women,[/QUOTE]Only those of us who reside in Thailand understand this fully. It sure is draining living there year round. Not sure how some guys like ET, Goat, etc do it without continually traveling to other countries. Some wondered why I had decided to to stay in Japan and Korea for an extended period last year. I just wanted my sanity back.

Re. The 270 day Visa by the time they get it figured out it will be a full blown 2nd wave with kids back to school and the colder weather below 9 Celsius. This will cancel all talks of the new tourist visa.

Also read today that suicide is up 22% in Thailand.

Finally, am I the only person who was shocked to see live fans at NFL games? What are you thinking, USA?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2482433]Living here year-round strictly with Thais dealing with them (in general) especially the way they think it wears you down mentally the frustration leaves me unable at times to even want to be with other Thai women, to be honest even if it was free? [/QUOTE]Amen to that! That is why I am ready for a change of scenery.

My girl told me that since I can not take care of her then I need to find a new lady. (And whenever I have asked a chick what this take care shit means I have never been able to get a straight answer in all these years.) The next day she asked what I was doing and I said looking for a new lady. She got all sad. No matter how many times I ask her if she told me to find a new lady, she will not acknowledge it even when I show it to her where she wrote it. She will just repeat you have new lady?

A couple days ago she came over without my approval so I acted like I was on the dark side with friends. She said she knows everything now. She knows I was in here with a lady (when I really was alone.).

Then the blatant lies from other chicks. I tell them there is no need to lie. This is Pattaya. Everybody is fucking everybody anyway. How the hell you constantly have your phone in hand and do not miss a message when you are with me, but when we are not together and I send you a message then you don't answer until 3 hours later or the next day saying you did not see the message, battery was dead, no signal, etc? And somehow them being sick automatically means they are unable to send a message even saying so. I refuse to play along with being an idiot.

*deleted by me for double post*

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2482698]Only those of us who reside in Thailand understand this fully. It sure is draining living there year round. Not sure how some guys like ET, Goat, etc do it without continually traveling to other countries. Some wondered why I had decided to to stay in Japan and Korea for an extended period last year. I just wanted my sanity back.

Re. The 270 day Visa by the time they get it figured out it will be a full blown 2nd wave with kids back to school and the colder weather below 9 Celsius. This will cancel all talks of the new tourist visa.

Also read today that suicide is up 22% in Thailand.

Finally, am I the only person who was shocked to see live fans at NFL games? What are you thinking, USA?[/QUOTE]For me, I mostly socialize with Westerners from the USA, U. K. , France, Germany, Belgium, Italy and so on and only interact with Thais on a more customer-seller basis. Except for many of the girls I socialize with, of course. But I do try to maintain some of my sanity by not getting sucked into their penchant for drama and constant financial crisis. Recognizing much of that is just a social interaction game they play out of habit and boredom helps. Their lives and futures are really not as dependent on you and your helping them as they try to make you think.

As far as my interaction with the Thai government goes, I actually find renewing my annual retirement visa easier and cheaper than before. I no longer need to make an appointment and separate trip to the USA Embassy and pay them 1,900 baht for a notarized income verification letter each time I renew. I already had a health insurance policy here years before it was added as a requirement.

On the issue of virus transmission mitigation efforts at the NFL game, many Americans have been refusing to engage in those efforts since the very beginning when Trump knew the facts about the seriousness of it, its deadly airborne transmission capabilities, that even young people get it, die from it, are carriers of it and the potential for hundreds of thousands of American deaths from it but chose instead to spend months lying to everyone about it in sync with Xi, telling them to "Open up your schools!", making fun of people who wear masks and so on for his personal political benefit in trying to keep the Dow from tanking again on his watch.

Obviously, that was another one of his disastrous economic decisions that produced terrible results all around including in the Dow. The Dow has not gone anywhere but up, down, up and down again for almost 3 years.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2482698]Only those of us who reside in Thailand understand this fully. It sure is draining living there year round....[/QUOTE]From the outside its easy: surrounded by hot chicks; everything is dirt cheap; glorious weather; endless beaches. The list goes on.

I've been asked many times " I've visited LOS / PI / Indo / SEA a couple of times and want to live there". My reply is always that living in Asia is TOTALLY different to holiday visits.

Enjoy. G.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2482704]Amen to that! That is why I am ready for a change of scenery.

My girl told me that since I can not take care of her then I need to find a new lady. (And whenever I have asked a chick what this take care shit means I have never been able to get a straight answer in all these years.) The next day she asked what I was doing and I said looking for a new lady. She got all sad. No matter how many times I ask her if she told me to find a new lady, she will not acknowledge it even when I show it to her where she wrote it. She will just repeat you have new lady?

A couple days ago she came over without my approval so I acted like I was on the dark side with friends. She said she knows everything now. She knows I was in here with a lady (when I really was alone.).

Then the blatant lies from other chicks. I tell them there is no need to lie. This is Pattaya. Everybody is fucking everybody anyway. How the hell you constantly have your phone in hand and do not miss a message when you are with me, but when we are not together and I send you a message then you don't answer until 3 hours later or the next day saying you did not see the message, battery was dead, no signal, etc? And somehow them being sick automatically means they are unable to send a message even saying so. I refuse to play along with being an idiot.[/QUOTE]Lolol. Yeah, that's the way it is. But doesn't she behave like none if that happened or matters the following week when you meet up with her again? Mine behaves like there was no life or death emotional crisis whatsoever a few days after. Sometimes the very next day.

I stopped running for the fort and loading up with ammunition with these girls years ago. I just stay where I sit with my feet up on a stool. It will pass.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2482704]
Then the blatant lies from other chicks. I tell them there is no need to lie. This is Pattaya. Everybody is fucking everybody anyway. How the hell you constantly have your phone in hand and do not miss a message when you are with me, but when we are not together and I send you a message then you don't answer until 3 hours later or the next day saying you did not see the message, battery was dead, no signal, etc? And somehow them being sick automatically means they are unable to send a message even saying so. I refuse to play along with being an idiot.[/QUOTE]lol so true!

The only way not to go crazy is to play the same game as them and to have a lot of romantic partners and to change them often. As they do.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2482643]..........unless you are deaf and blind tough to watch what is being heard right in front of you live and in color ................[/QUOTE]That's me on a trip, I'm focussed only on the pussy.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2482586]............The PRC and CCP are doing anything to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.[/QUOTE]And Russia's doing everything to get him re-elected.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2482764]That's me on a trip, I'm focussed only on the pussy.[/QUOTE]Then you are deaf-blind, and plain fooling yourself only focuses on pussy that is just big talk the same as not pondering.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2482586]In this day and age, no one should rely on anything coming out of the PRC or CCP. At this point, even the WHO is totally unreliable. Anyone trying to discredit the vaccines being developed are the puppets of the CCP, the Biden campaign or Democratic Party. The PRC and CCP are doing anything to prevent Trump from getting re-elected.[/QUOTE]Mmmmm I am not sure this post is Banana Boi compatible.

Please use the appropriate words "pussy", "ball", "cock", "cum" instead of the words "PRC", "CCP", "Trump" and "Biden".

You can place them in any order.

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2482796]Mmmmm I am not sure this post is Banana Boi compatible.

Please use the appropriate words "pussy", "ball", "cock", "cum" instead of the words "PRC", "CCP", "Trump" and "Biden".

You can place them in any order.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]Touche LOL.

I see where he's coming from though, reliable sources are very important. We should only rely on sources that never lie, are mostly accurate and base their views on factual evidence.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2482704]My girl told me that since I can not take care of her then I need to find a new lady. (And whenever I have asked a chick what this take care shit means I have never been able to get a straight answer in all these years.).[/QUOTE]It may mean give her financial support which Thais may associate with love.

Evidently she was feeling a lack of being taken care of. With emphasis on the word feeling. Hence the statement about finding a new lady. Not that she really wanted that to happen. It was just her mood of the moment. Maybe wanting to see where your heart is at.

IME Thai sex workers, especially regulars, often act like that. It's all just part of the fun of the game.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2483072]It may mean give her financial support which Thais may associate with love.[/QUOTE]Not just financial support for her and her kids, but also the whole family. Mother. Grandmother. Drunk brother. Lazy sister and her kids.

I've seen this concept extended by Thai women who married American men and moved to USA. The man is expected to send money to family in Thailand. I've seen one case where an adult child was brought to USA, a daughter, who carried on the tradition of sucking every penny possible out of her American boyfriends and then moving to the next when his bank account runs dry.

I've also seen some very good Thai women who have become good wives to American men. Those weren't found in bars. Not very many of these.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2483072]It may mean give her financial support which Thais may associate with love.
[/QUOTE]IME, that only applies to sex-workers. I've been seeing my fair share of low paid workers (7-11 staff, massage staff, farm staff, students, etc.), and "take care" means to give some emotional support, not money. Think: bringing over hot chicken soup if they're sick in bed, the occasional visit to the cinema / live music bar / picnic in the park, asking how they are doing, etc. I. e. , sometimes doing something other than putting my dick in their mouth.

[QUOTE=Werqweq;2483858]IME, that only applies to sex-workers. I've been seeing my fair share of low paid workers (7-11 staff, massage staff, farm staff, students, etc.), and "take care" means to give some emotional support, not money.[/QUOTE]I don't know why some guys equate girlfriend as sex worker. I see guys on many threads of ISG refer to a sex worker as their girlfriend. When I hand a sex worker the 500 or 1000 baht that I owe them, our business is done. They have the same chance of telling me something about "taking care" as the cashier at 7-Eleven.

In a facebook group a guy posed a question asking how much he should offer his girlfriend per month to live with him. The smart people said if you have to pay her then she is not your girlfriend. Other people chimed in with well I give my wife such and such amount. The problem solved itself when the guy made the girl an offer (20,000 baht I think) and it was not high enough so she told him to kick rocks.

If I ever did live with one of these women I would not be their free ride or rather their ride that pays them. I would give them responsibility. They would have to get a job and at least pay the electric and cable bills and the rest of the money they earn would be theirs to do what they please. There would be none of that I pay you to live with me and become an extra bill and headache shit.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2483866]I don't know why some guys equate girlfriend as sex worker. I see guys on many threads of ISG refer to a sex worker as their girlfriend. When I hand a sex worker the 500 or 1000 baht that I owe them, our business is done. They have the same chance of telling me something about "taking care" as the cashier at 7-Eleven.[/QUOTE]Yeah this sounds more like you. You lost points with your last post and had us wondering.

It was you who called her "my girl" and then referred to the rest as "other" chicks. How are we to understand this, that you have one "my sex worker" and " other sex workers" lie.

Asking you to take care of her, going to your spot and accusing you of being with someone else etc is not normal sex worker behaviour towards a guy who is very transactional towards them. Sounds and reads more like jealous girlfriend behaviour or working girl behaviour towards a chump like the one you just told us about which is probably where the confusion came in.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2483866]I don't know why some guys equate girlfriend as sex worker.[/QUOTE]Probably because the lines distinguishing the two are often blurry.

Also because that's largely the way the world in fact is & has been since the beginning of time.

If a so-called "girlfriend" or wife is not offering regular and or good sex, she is often dumped for something better. Or the guy wishes he could, but feels enslaved.

"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things that money can buy." Steve martin.

Charlie Sheen reportedly said: "I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave."

"Sex for money is cheaper than sex for free".

Anyone with a lick of sense knows that a hooker is not a GF, even a longtime favorite repeat working girl is not the same as a GF. Don't believe me? Just tell your favorite repeat working girl that you have lost all you money in the stock market and ask her if you can stay at her place and shag for free. We all know what 99.99999999999% of them will say. But this truth does not prevent me from having very friendly relations with a few of my favorite repeat girls. I enjoy my friendly hooker relations and see no harm indulging them a little while at the same time I keeping my wallet handy and my emotions under control.

But once in a blue moon it is the working girl that has a fantasy all her own. Example: she meets a young guy in her bar. He says all the right things, he looks good, fucks good, and the next thing she knows, she "loves" him, ha ha, and thinks of him as her "boyfriend" and that means she does not charge him for sex. It happens. Believe me, but it never works out because Romeo knows what he is doing, even though he may even invite the girl to visit him in Germany or where ever.

A variation of the repeat working girl is the mistress. It is the same principal involved and having a mistress is fine as long as the man knows what he has / what he has rented for the long term. In my own example, I have been sending Mini, one of my long time favorite repeat girls, rent money (4000 baht / month) since April. I guess that makes her my long distance mistress if I wanted to look at it that way. Instead, I prefer to think I am just helping her out. I know she is very grateful, but I don't expect anything in return other than her being there when I return. And I plan to see her on my 1st night back in BKK which is our custom, but then night 2, 3 and 4 will be spent with my other favorite repeat girls and on night 5 & 6 I will be out looking for new. Of course as soon as things return to normal I will stop sending Mini rent money. But I don't think there is any point in denying that I have a relationship with this little hooker, it is just that I am under no delusions about it.

[QUOTE=Werqweq;2483858]IME, that only applies to sex-workers. I've been seeing my fair share of low paid workers (7-11 staff, massage staff, farm staff, students, etc.), and "take care" means to give some emotional support, not money. Think: bringing over hot chicken soup if they're sick in bed, the occasional visit to the cinema / live music bar / picnic in the park, asking how they are doing, etc. I. e. , sometimes doing something other than putting my dick in their mouth.[/QUOTE]Money is not always cash. Hot soup costs money. A date can come up to more than an hour with a hooker. Emotional support alone will not help a girl who is hungry or is behind on her rent.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2483866]In a facebook group a guy posed a question asking how much he should offer his girlfriend per month to live with him. The smart people said if you have to pay her then she is not your girlfriend.[/QUOTE]

That's an academic discussion about the term "girlfriend". In more practical terms, for certain guys, if they don't pay up, the woman will no longer be around. They prefer to avoid that, perhaps because they don't find it easy to get a comparable partner.

Although ideally, both partners should pull their weight in the relationship, it's not exactly unheard of for the bulk of resources to flow from the man to the woman. The other way around is less common. Personally, I'm dead-set against a regular cash handouts, but if that's the way some couples roll, it's their business. Blatant, perhaps, but not as far out of the ordinary as it first appears.

A few new articles floating around this morning " Cabinet okay 90 day extension " " all tourist need insurance to come into Thailand " before anyone start to pack their bags or get out their pom poms read between the lines if you can find them or the full article when you do nothing has changed you still need to play ball which is jump through all the hoops!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2484039]A few new articles floating around this morning " Cabinet okay 90 day extension " " all tourist need insurance to come into Thailand " before anyone start to pack their bags or get out their pom poms read between the lines if you can find them or the full article when you do nothing has changed you still need to play ball which is jump through all the hoops![/QUOTE]1200 tourists per month! So 40 special people are allowed in to Thailand per day! Yep, this will get the economy rolling. Don't even dream about being one of the 1200 per month if you live in USA. This will purely be a China money grab with only the richest of the rich getting in.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484072]1200 tourists per month! So 40 special people are allowed in to Thailand per day! Yep, this will get the economy rolling. Don't even dream about being one of the 1200 per month if you live in USA. This will purely be a China money grab with only the richest of the rich getting in.[/QUOTE]That doesn't sound like a lot but as I noted after reading the article it is no different from the other proposal but the article on Yahoo and T. V. Make it sound like all you got to do is the 14 day quarantine when in fact you still need to jump through the hoops. The insurance cost is based on how long you stay, what country you are coming from sound familar " Bubble " " Safe and Seal " Earlier they even cancelled China and Korea from the Bubble no published enough but believe it or not they have problems not to exclude India!

Today in the car with the family my son, wife and mines were talking about the 90 days indicating concerns that opening up would allow the virus in of course even they are living in a dream world because they don't really work in the real sense because I'm their financial stimulist. But I joined into the conversation told them again what is required to get that first 90 days you got to again play the same hoop game. And in my book if true no taker before no takers now! Their Thai T. V. Reporting just like these reports on T. V. Don't explain any of the fine details. I told them " This is Thailand " if I wasn't paying attention to the road it would interesting to see their expression?

I've been doing this quite often nowadays. Assuming she speaks and understands English reasonably well I find it lots of fun to log onto ISG, read out a bunch of posts on say for example the current discussion on handsome guys versus less attractive guys and ask her opinion. It can be both interesting and illuminating to listen to and can also lead to a better understanding of how these girls think and feel about us. Live and let live is a good maxim to follow in life but just as important is listen and learn.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2484158]I've been doing this quite often nowadays. Assuming she speaks and understands English reasonably well I find it lots of fun to log onto ISG, read out a bunch of posts on say for example the current discussion on handsome guys versus less attractive guys and ask her opinion. It can be both interesting and illuminating to listen to and can also lead to a better understanding of how these girls think and feel about us. Live and let live is a good maxim to follow in life but just as important is listen and learn.[/QUOTE]On the discussion of Handsome Guys/Customers vs Less Attractive Guys/Customers, didn't she simply tell you, "I prefer guys/customers just like YOU, Honey!"?

I might have felt a little pissed if she hadn't.

But maybe not as pissed as if she had said, "I only like to go with really ugly guys/customers, Honey," as she gave me a big sincere hug 😁

I think I'm the best looking guy on here! How can I not be!

I am 5'6".
I am obese.
I still have a tiny bit of hair and have a very stylish comb over.
I have hair on my chest and back.
I have a partial beard to cover my double chin.
I have yellowing teeth.
I have callouses on my hands.
I have hair on my fingers.
I have long nose hairs and hair growing in my ear.
I wear flip flops and wife beater shirts to gogo bars and Thermae.

I'm damn good looking and I get BBFS from 90% of the girls in Thailand because I will pay extra!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484072]1200 tourists per month! So 40 special people are allowed in to Thailand per day! Yep, this will get the economy rolling. Don't even dream about being one of the 1200 per month if you live in USA. This will purely be a China money grab with only the richest of the rich getting in.[/QUOTE]Kind of what I was suspecting. Appears the 1200 tourists that will receive the highest priority for the 270 day Visas are those willing to invest in Thailand? Anyone willing to bypass the wait by investing in a new overpriced condo? Would investing in a bar beer count? Can't see how that would be expensive in Pattaya. Natty and I are willing to go in with a group of 38 other guys to buy Action Street or something.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2484378]On the discussion of Handsome Guys/Customers vs Less Attractive Guys/Customers, didn't she simply tell you, "I prefer guys/customers just like YOU, Honey!"?[/QUOTE]I thought guys were paying for the acting, not the honesty. Maybe love starved guys are hoping the acting to be honest? Seems even some chicks get caught up in the role as well. As I am fucking 2 paid chicks separately who turns out are friends. One does not want the other to know that she has contact with me, even though the other was the one that told me her and the one were talking and realized I was a customer of each of them. So the one is trying to keep secret something that everybody already knows. Makes no sense to me.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2484378]On the discussion of Handsome Guys/Customers vs Less Attractive Guys/Customers, didn't she simply tell you, "I prefer guys/customers just like YOU, Honey!"?

I might have felt a little pissed if she hadn't.

But maybe not as pissed as if she had said, "I only like to go with really ugly guys/customers, Honey," as she gave me a big sincere hug.[/QUOTE]I don't know about you ET but personally I don't need affirmation from working girls and also wouldn't you agree that at our age being vain is just silly?. That said though it's nice when a compliment or two genuine or not comes with the session. Anyway I digress back to the discussion on hand. As pretty much all members have indicated and is confirmed by the girls I've chatted to attractiveness is a non-issue for who they will go with. Yes they are certain situations where they refuse but it's not because of their looks it's because they feel threatened by their body language or behavior. So no need to fret ET, despite your standout model good looks your charm and generosity will always get you the best looking girls.

You can't get into LOS without a COE from your embassy so get one before booking a flight.

[QUOTE=Werqweq;2483858]IME, that only applies to sex-workers. I've been seeing my fair share of low paid workers (7-11 staff, massage staff, farm staff, students, etc.), and "take care" means to give some emotional support, not money. Think: bringing over hot chicken soup if they're sick in bed, the occasional visit to the cinema / live music bar / picnic in the park, asking how they are doing, etc.[/QUOTE]If she is not a working girl she shouldn't talk about "take care" in the first place. The thing you're talking about is giving her some attention.

The meaning of "take care" by Thai WGs is to take care of her financial expenses.

Depending on the girl and how she perceives the guy that is supposed to "take care" of her it can go from paying for the food (not necessarily expensive stuffs), transportation expenses, paying for her rent (if the guy is supposed to be the boyfriend) and stuff like that, and as said by other members it can even go up to supporting the whole family in some extreme cases.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484072]1200 tourists per month! So 40 special people are allowed in to Thailand per day! .[/QUOTE]1200 tourists per month also makes about 6 long-haul planes with 200 seats each. Or 1. 5 flights per week (or rather 2 a week, 1 the following week, etc.).

"Another impediment to the success of the new STV was revealed after the Tourism Authority of Thailand deputy governor Thapanee Kiatphaibool said that the tourists would have to travel on chartered flights from overseas directly to their destinations in Thailand. The cost and infrequent nature of these flights would add a further barrier to the success of the visa. " The Thaiger ([URL]https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/visa/tourists-on-the-new-special-tourist-visa-will-have-to-arrive-on-charter-flights[/URL]).

Roughly speaking, this means that we may be able to apply for a visa (after having accepted all the constraints of 14 days of quarantine or "fit to fly", both of which are equally useless) and obtain it. But we will still not be sure to have a flight to come to Thailand.

Unless the Thai embassies in the countries turn into a travel agency and allocate countries, companies, flights and places to visa recipients.

Anyone thinking in Thai government? Do they have advisors or something like that?

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2484460]1200 tourists per month also makes about 6 long-haul planes with 200 seats each. Or 1. 5 flights per week (or rather 2 a week, 1 the following week, etc.).

"Another impediment to the success of the new STV was revealed after the Tourism Authority of Thailand deputy governor Thapanee Kiatphaibool said that the tourists would have to travel on chartered flights from overseas directly to their destinations in Thailand. The cost and infrequent nature of these flights would add a further barrier to the success of the visa. " The Thaiger ([URL]https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/visa/tourists-on-the-new-special-tourist-visa-will-have-to-arrive-on-charter-flights[/URL]).

Roughly speaking, this means that we may be able to apply for a visa (after having accepted all the constraints of 14 days of quarantine or "fit to fly", both of which are equally useless) and obtain it. But we will still not be sure to have a flight to come to Thailand.

Unless the Thai embassies in the countries turn into a travel agency and allocate countries, companies, flights and places to visa recipients.

Anyone thinking in Thai government? Do they have advisors or something like that?[/QUOTE]Seems to me the uniforms are so smug in their 'achievement" in containing the virus and to fair they have done an amazing job, they don't want their reputation tarnished by even a single local infection. Look what happened when that DJ tested positive, all hell broke loose. They know the economic toll it's having on millions of Thai's out of work and business's failing so to be seen to be doing something about it they come up with these wacky visitor programs that will have little effect. In fact the reality on the ground is because more and more visitors are leaving before the September 26th amnesty runs out there will actually be fewer foreigners around. Those hoping to get here anytime soon would be wise to be realistic about their prospects of doing so anytime soon.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484398]I think I'm the best looking guy on here! How can I not be!

I am 5'6".
I am obese.
I still have a tiny bit of hair and have a very stylish comb over.
I have hair on my chest and back.
I have a partial beard to cover my double chin.
I have yellowing teeth.
I have callouses on my hands.
I have hair on my fingers.
I have long nose hairs and hair growing in my ear.
I wear flip flops and wife beater shirts to gogo bars and Thermae.

I'm damn good looking and I get BBFS from 90% of the girls in Thailand because I will pay extra![/QUOTE]Yeah but do you wear a Rolex?

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2483925]That's an academic discussion about the term "girlfriend". In more practical terms, for certain guys, if they don't pay up, the woman will no longer be around. They prefer to avoid that, perhaps because they don't find it easy to get a comparable partner.

Although ideally, both partners should pull their weight in the relationship, it's not exactly unheard of for the bulk of resources to flow from the man to the woman. The other way around is less common. Personally, I'm dead-set against a regular cash handouts, but if that's the way some couples roll, it's their business. Blatant, perhaps, but not as far out of the ordinary as it first appears.[/QUOTE]Yesterday I called the guy, who I've known for many years now, who owns the outfit that provides me with escorts. He tells me that he has a girl who's on her first day on the job. I agree and she turns up at my door. She shows me her face but says she wants to keep the mask on during sex. I agree. I rate her about a 6.5.

After the deed we get to talking which we did for a much longer time than the actual sex. Without directly asking her I confirm that I was indeed her first customer. Her story is quite dismal. She has three daughters with two guys, the father of the first two gives her nothing. She told me she lives in an apartment with no furniture and has turned to hooking so she can buy school books and electronic devices for the kids who she leaves with her ailing mother. She showed me photos of her children. We exchanged phone numbers and she left.

She called me later and I offered to help. I am no chump so I decided that I must see where she lives before doing anything. So my plan is that in our next conversation I will ask to visit her place and only if it is as she described will I buy the schoolbooks and one device for her kids. I've never done this before so I'm quite anxious to see where it goes.

It is probably necessary to think carefully before initiating long and expensive procedures to arrive in Thailand.

Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket now look like ghost towns that have nothing to do with what we experienced before the covid and will not return until the significant return of tourists.

Is it reasonable to put in a lot of effort and spend a lot of money just to find yourself in depressing and boring cities? There is probably more life in Europe and USA at the moment.

Nothing is really being done to change this in Thailand for a long time to come.

Now is probably the time to wait and see.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsLfY5gcvM[/URL]

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2484507]Yeah but do you wear a Rolex?[/QUOTE]Even better. I wear a pink Fitbit so the girls know I take care of myself and I'm confident with my masculinity!

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2484451]You can't get into LOS without a COE from your embassy so get one before booking a flight.[/QUOTE]"Booking a flight"? The only inbound flights available are those organised by the Embassies in the countries of departure and getting on one of those involves meeting the narrow criteria for those permitted entry (Thai citizens and spouses thereof, holders of Permanent Residence certificates, work permit holders etc). Likely you'll then go on a waiting list as there a a lot of Thai emigrants still waiting for repatriation.

Airlines or travel agents taking bookings for flights are at best borrowing from the customer or obtaining involuntary donations.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2484516]Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket now look like ghost towns that have nothing to do with what we experienced before the covid and will not return until the significant return of tourists.[/QUOTE]Aside from the Sukhumvit area from Nana to Phrom Pong, Bangkok is really pretty normal. Get out of the tourist areas and about the only difference you'll see from pre-covid is everyone wearing masks. Thonglor bars and restaurants had very good crowds last night.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2484516]Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket now look like ghost towns that have nothing to do with what we experienced before the covid and will not return until the significant return of tourists.[/QUOTE]One has to wonder if you have ever been to Bangkok. The sex industry is a VERY VERY small part of Bangkok. Bangkok DOES NOT need tourists or the sex industry to survive. imo Bangkok is one of the coolest cities in the world if you like shopping and culture and #2 for food only behind Tokyo. Bangkok area is 15 times larger than Paris, France in case you didn't know.

You are correct about Pattaya and Phuket. A gogo girl sent me a photo today trying to fool me. She said the Chinese tourists are back. Took a photo of 3 tour buses full of passengers driving down Beach Road. After I said WTF she fessed up and said it's a Thai tour of Pattaya.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2485276]One has to wonder if you have ever been to Bangkok. The sex industry is a VERY VERY small part of Bangkok. Bangkok DOES NOT need tourists or the sex industry to survive. imo Bangkok is one of the coolest cities in the world if you like shopping and culture and #2 for food only behind Tokyo. Bangkok area is 15 times larger than Paris, France in case you didn't know.
[/QUOTE]Thanks for the information. If we don't know what to do if Nana, Soi Cow Boy and Patpong are closed, we can still go shopping.

Perhaps we should rename ISG to International Shopping Guide.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2485059]"Booking a flight"? The only inbound flights available are those organised by the Embassies in the countries of departure and getting on one of those involves meeting the narrow criteria for those permitted entry (Thai citizens and spouses thereof, holders of Permanent Residence certificates, work permit holders etc). Likely you'll then go on a waiting list as there a a lot of Thai emigrants still waiting for repatriation.

Airlines or travel agents taking bookings for flights are at best borrowing from the customer or obtaining involuntary donations.[/QUOTE]Don't know if anybody else saw the "Draft Process for Special Tourist Visa: in the business section of Bangkok Post Monday. Kafka in his most bizarre and surrealistic imaginings could not have come up the insane level of absurd bureaucracy involved. Available online at [URL]https://www.pressreader.com/thailand/bangkok-post/20200921/281994674919727[/URL].

In yet another article on the front page of the same edition it seems there are more than 150,000 tourists who if still here post September 26th amnesty without a valid visa can end up in jail. Most of these it seems had visas which have expired but are covered by the amnesty. Getting extensions is anything but straight forward or guaranteed.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/easy/1989023/tourists-face-arrest-jail-for-overstaying[/URL]

Apologies if this all sounds a bit too much doom and gloom but as we speak this unfortunately is the reality.

On a brighter note though some of us will be off to Soi 11 later tonight for some BBFS / CIP / BBBJ / CIM / swallow.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2485646]Thanks for the information..[/QUOTE]You're welcome Sirioja aka Bitumen.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2485652]Don't know if anybody else saw the "Draft Process for Special Tourist Visa: in the business section of Bangkok Post Monday. Kafka in his most bizarre and surrealistic imaginings could not have come up the insane level of absurd bureaucracy involved. Available online at [URL]https://www.pressreader.com/thailand/bangkok-post/20200921/281994674919727[/URL].

In yet another article on the front page of the same edition it seems there are more than 150,000 tourists who if still here post September 26th amnesty without a valid visa can end up in jail. Most of these it seems had visas which have expired but are covered by the amnesty. Getting extensions is anything but straight forward or guaranteed.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/easy/1989023/tourists-face-arrest-jail-for-overstaying[/URL]

Apologies if this all sounds a bit too much doom and gloom but as we speak this unfortunately is the reality.

On a brighter note though some of us will be off to Soi 11 later tonight for some BBFS / CIP / BBBJ / CIM / swallow.[/QUOTE]Is Mullis or Australian Club open yet?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2485276]One has to wonder if you have ever been to Bangkok. The sex industry is a VERY VERY small part of Bangkok. Bangkok DOES NOT need tourists or the sex industry to survive. imo Bangkok is one of the coolest cities in the world if you like shopping and culture and #2 for food only behind Tokyo. Bangkok area is 15 times larger than Paris, France in case you didn't know.

You are correct about Pattaya and Phuket. A gogo girl sent me a photo today trying to fool me. She said the Chinese tourists are back. Took a photo of 3 tour buses full of passengers driving down Beach Road. After I said WTF she fessed up and said it's a Thai tour of Pattaya.[/QUOTE]Bangkok needs foreign capital, not necessarily foreign tourists, but tourism is a big part of the economy and shouldn't be discounted. Its not that different than other major cities, and with Thailand being a tourist hub in general, its pretty significant part of the economy. Even Paris, Tokyo, and NYC have huge tourism industries. But Bangkok really needs that outside business-investment from foreigners more than the vacationers, if it becomes less welcoming to foreigners, its hard to predict the outcome on it. The south of the country though and Pattaya. Now those areas need the tourists, badly.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiU9SppsvJs&t=65s[/URL]

It's probably easier to go to the moon with SpaceX (and maybe cheaper)

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2486005][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiU9SppsvJs&t=65s[/URL]

It's probably easier to go to the moon with SpaceX (and maybe cheaper)[/QUOTE]I'm close to losing my mind without a imminent return to mongering in Asia but these are some hoops I'm simply not willing to jump through. The whole thing is just insane and a farce. I'm presuming the overpriced flights and ASQ will have to be booked before your visa is approved, what happens then if you go to the embassy and they don't like your paperwork, we all know what its like dealing with these people in Thai consulates or if there is an issue or delay with your test before you fly, I doubt you will get your money back or they will be accommodating in any way.

Just think how much money this is going to cost after 2 - 3 weeks before your holiday even starts, I'm guessing around $5000 to basically spend 2 weeks on a leper colony and go through the worst bureaucracy on the planet and then to top it all off they want to track you on an app which leaves me with more questions. What happens if you run out of battery and the tracking stops or you lose your phone, will you get into trouble? There must be a lot more to this that they will only reveal once you land on the leper colony as you will have no choice but to comply.

This is really only for people that really need to return and there is no other way for them. There are just way too many obstacles and out of pocket expenses for the ordinary tourist for this to make any sense.

[QUOTE=JohnnyO;2486056]Just think how much money this is going to cost after 2 - 3 weeks before your holiday even starts, I'm guessing around $5000 to basically spend 2 weeks on a leper colony and go through the worst bureaucracy on the planet and then to top it all off they want to track you on an app which leaves me with more questions. What happens if you run out of battery and the tracking stops or you lose your phone, will you get into trouble? There must be a lot more to this that they will only reveal once you land on the leper colony as you will have no choice but to comply.

This is really only for people that really need to return and there is no other way for them. There are just way too many obstacles and out of pocket expenses for the ordinary tourist for this to make any sense.[/QUOTE]Most would agree that the high costs, the jumping through regulatory and medical hoops, time commitment to stay minimum 90 days, and the uncertainty in dealing with bureaucratic shape-shifting, is not ideal from a tourism product marketing perspective.

But their point is that we are in the leper colony now, not them.

Sure, economic complacency will set in eventually, but I'm not holding my breath any more. I've given up, been gasping too long.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2485276]...Bangkok DOES NOT need tourists or the sex industry to survive. imo Bangkok is one of the coolest cities in the world if you like shopping and culture and #2 for food only behind Tokyo....[/QUOTE]I totally agree Banana Boi. I love Bangkok and I love Tokyo. I enjoy the nightlife but also the culture. When I am in BKK, I usually get a BJ in the morning and then go off to explore and photograph Bangkok all day. I like to go to places where you don't see farangs or barely see them. I find the Thai people to be some of the nicest people anywhere I have ever traveled. If you show respect, they show respect. If you smile, they smile. The food is outstanding. I am missing Thailand badly. I was about to make my 8th trip there when all of the Covid stuff blew up. I wish I had gone. I would be safer there than here in the USA where people are so angry if you wear a mask.

Try Sukhothai. It is a pleasant little town. It has ruins from long ago. I photograph there all of the time. The different seasons have different light. Don't go in the burning season. In the summertime, it is all Thai tourists for the most part. I looked up hotels recently and they are so cheap. Places are showing up that I had never seen listed. If college is back in session, I recommend Phitsanulok as well. It is dead in the day. The students and faculty come out at night and they are fun. Interesting little town with some of the best street food in Thailand.(in my experience) The Chiang Mai train passes through Phitsanulok. It is an interesting ride north. Going south to BKK is grueling.

[QUOTE=DanCee;2486128]Most would agree that the high costs, the jumping through regulatory and medical hoops, time commitment to stay minimum 90 days, and the uncertainty in dealing with bureaucratic shape-shifting, is not ideal from a tourism product marketing perspective.

But their point is that we are in the leper colony now, not them.

Sure, economic complacency will set in eventually, but I'm not holding my breath any more. I've given up, been gasping too long.[/QUOTE]I suspect the whole setup is aimed at just some small VIP groups and business people that are just being given a legit way to enter so they don't have to jump through bribes or bureaucracy or who knows what to get back in and do what they need to do. These would be people who work or have business interests in thailand, but come in on tourist visas which is pretty. Business people have found plenty of ways around thai visa requirements, just like everyone else has.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484072]1200 tourists per month! So 40 special people are allowed in to Thailand per day! Yep, this will get the economy rolling. Don't even dream about being one of the 1200 per month if you live in USA. This will purely be a China money grab with only the richest of the rich getting in.[/QUOTE]That is about how many boaters / rafters are allowed to raft the Grand Canyon in Arizona per day. That is a drop in the bucket for Thailand.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2486170]I suspect the whole setup is aimed at just some small VIP groups and business people that are just being given a legit way to enter so they don't have to jump through bribes or bureaucracy [/QUOTE]What business people or VIP groups do you know that have 2 spare weeks to sit around waiting?

[QUOTE=AmPervert;2486159]I totally agree Banana Boi. I love Bangkok and I love Tokyo. I enjoy the nightlife but also the culture. When I am in BKK, I usually get a BJ in the morning and then go off to explore and photograph Bangkok all day. I like to go to places where you don't see farangs or barely see them. I find the Thai people to be some of the nicest people anywhere I have ever traveled. If you show respect, they show respect. If you smile, they smile. The food is outstanding. I am missing Thailand badly. I was about to make my 8th trip there when all of the Covid stuff blew up. I wish I had gone. I would be safer there than here in the USA where people are so angry if you wear a mask.

Try Sukhothai. It is a pleasant little town. It has ruins from long ago. I photograph there all of the time. The different seasons have different light. Don't go in the burning season. In the summertime, it is all Thai tourists for the most part. I looked up hotels recently and they are so cheap. Places are showing up that I had never seen listed. If college is back in session, I recommend Phitsanulok as well. It is dead in the day. The students and faculty come out at night and they are fun. Interesting little town with some of the best street food in Thailand.(in my experience) The Chiang Mai train passes through Phitsanulok. It is an interesting ride north. Going south to BKK is grueling.[/QUOTE]I'm with these guys. I love Bangkok and am totally bummed I haven't been able to go there from my home here in Siem Reap. As soon as they ditch the quarantine BS and allow Visa waiver entries, me and my camera are heading back, I have a condo lined up and loads of spare batteries.

Phitsanalok is great, I though what Yai was gorgeous and I really spent some time with Phra Buddaha Chinnawat, which itself is worth a trip.

[QUOTE=BuschMan;2486183]That is about how many boaters / rafters are allowed to raft the Grand Canyon in Arizona per day. That is a drop in the bucket for Thailand.[/QUOTE]Thailand will survive because the 40 people per day they will allow in will have "deep pockets". Their words, not mine. Just as a comparison those 40 tourists per day they will allow in to Thailand need to spend the equivalence of 109,000 tourists per day who visited Thailand in 2019 (39.8 million visitors in 2019). I think we can all do the math here.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2486207]What business people or VIP groups do you know that have 2 spare weeks to sit around waiting?[/QUOTE]What do you mean "spare weeks" they are working remotely anyways, they can do that from quarantine in thailand for a couple weeks to get back there to do whatever they need to do. People around the world are dealing with this type of thing.

[QUOTE=JohnnyO;2486056]I'm presuming the overpriced flights and ASQ will have to be booked before your visa is approved, what happens then if you go to the embassy and they don't like your paperwork, we all know what its like dealing with these people in Thai consulates or if there is an issue or delay with your test before you fly, I doubt you will get your money back or they will be accommodating in any way.[/QUOTE]JohnnyO,

I've just answered a query in another thread which covers this. [URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3663-Thailand-Lounge-and-Chat-area&p=2486278#post2486278[/URL].

Short answer is if they don't like your paperwork or you test positive at the required test within 72 hours of departure your cash is gone.

[QUOTE=BuschMan;2486183]That is about how many boaters / rafters are allowed to raft the Grand Canyon in Arizona per day. That is a drop in the bucket for Thailand.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2486244]Thailand will survive because the 40 people per day they will allow in will have "deep pockets". Their words, not mine. Just as a comparison those 40 tourists per day they will allow in to Thailand need to spend the equivalence of 109,000 tourists per day who visited Thailand in 2019 (39.8 million visitors in 2019). I think we can all do the math here.[/QUOTE]Yeah. Looks small if we just focus on the daily number as an absolute and limited number. But this is cumulative, remember visitors under this scheme must stay minimum 90 days and up to 270 days with 2 extensions.

Do the maths now.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2486170]I suspect the whole setup is aimed at just some small VIP groups and business people that are just being given a legit way to enter so they don't have to jump through bribes or bureaucracy or who knows what to get back in and do what they need to do.[/QUOTE]GrapeMan,

You've kind of hit the nail on the head. The Ministry of Tourism / Tourist Authority of Thailand blows hot air about stimulating the moribund Tourism sector, but in reality this is aimed at a very small market of individuals.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2486207]What business people or VIP groups do you know that have 2 spare weeks to sit around waiting?[/QUOTE]MrE.

You won't see them around Pattaya or the mongering mass tourism spots of Phuket, Samui etc but there are a small but significant band of reasonably (and some of them extremely) wealthy foreigners who come to Thailand to escape the cold northern hemisphere winter for 4, 5, 6 months each year. Chinese, Russians, Scandinavians, North Americans. Some are retirees, others may have business interests in Thailand or elsewhere in SE Asia.

There's a reason why the marinas of Phuket are always full of boats. And not cheap boats (or moorings) at that. I know a chap who worked on an Azimut 105 which is usually based in Phuket. The Chinese owner spent around 6 months a year living on Phuket and about 4 days of that on the boat but never stayed overnight because "only fishermen and sea gypsies sleep on the sea". For those 4 days of boating he retained a crew of 6 for the boat on top of the 4 or 5 Thais employed at the villa year round and certainly not at 330 baht per day (the Thais likely 10 times this, the two farang well into 6 digits USD). He had to leave his cushy job when the boat was sold to a Russian. He made the mistake of admitting he understood some Russian and the new owner would never allow any of the crew the opportunity to overhear or eavesdrop his dodgy dealings.

To everyone.

Understand this. Thailand has made its choice to avoid "second wave", renewed lockdowns, etc. And that means anything vaguely like mass tourism is closed until further notice. The vast majority of the Thai population nationally agree with keeping the borders effectively shut. The demonstrators / activists / reformists are not calling for a change to this policy. High season 2020 has been written off. Their country, their rules as they say.

As to the economic impact. It is what it is. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the overall impact of a second lockdown of all but essential businesses versus the tourism effect of the borders closing. A lot of people both here and on other forums display complete disregard for the composition of the Thai economy.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2486309]MrE.

You won't see them around Pattaya or the mongering mass tourism spots of Phuket, Samui etc but there are a small but significant band of reasonably (and some of them extremely) wealthy foreigners who come to Thailand to escape the cold northern hemisphere winter[/QUOTE]I am not saying there are no rich people or businessmen that come to Thailand. I am disputing them willing or able to come to Thailand and sit in quarantine for 2 weeks.

The "special tourist visa" of 90 days is about as worthless as they come. The recent comments by the CP Group chairman that Thai tourism should be only for the wealthy ignores the fact that millions of poor Thais rely on the tourism business in some manner and that the industry makes up over 20% of Thailand's GDP!

The recent student protests will become a revolution if the government fails to recognize the needs of its people. A communist ploy of fermenting revolution to get rid of the monarchy will play in to the Communist Chinese Party's intention on making Thailand a client state or worse a complete take over with the PLA seizing the entire country. When 11 million Chinese tourists come from the PRC, one can easily see how the CCP would relish taking over Thailand.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2486323]The "special tourist visa" of 90 days is about as worthless as they come. The recent comments by the CP Group chairman that Thai tourism should be only for the wealthy ignores the fact that millions of poor Thais rely on the tourism business in some manner and that the industry makes up over 20% of Thailand's GDP!

The recent student protests will become a revolution if the government fails to recognize the needs of its people. A communist ploy of fermenting revolution to get rid of the monarchy will play in to the Communist Chinese Party's intention on making Thailand a client state or worse a complete take over with the PLA seizing the entire country. When 11 million Chinese tourists come from the PRC, one can easily see how the CCP would relish taking over Thailand.[/QUOTE]Must be an election coming up somewhere soon, maybe.

First paragraph is a complete non-sequitur. Surprising for such a supposedly financially educated person. Just shows how political obsession can dull the thinking processes.

As for the second paragraph; wow. I remember when this used to be an information exchange for guys who liked pussy.

In general this idea will fail like all the rest! They would be better off just putting out a noticed you visa has ended anyone wants to stay longer just come down before the dead line and pay 1900 baht for another month a quick in and out no research no nothing in and out with a new stamp in 5 minutes.

There is speculation 150,000 people left if everyone stays 150,000 x 1900 = ? Why spend million, billions, trillion promoting all these dead end idea's?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2486318]I am not saying there are no rich people or businessmen that come to Thailand. I am disputing them willing or able to come to Thailand and sit in quarantine for 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]People were and are doing this in the US, Canada, and Europe already. 2-week quarantine on travel is fairly standard right now.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2486512]People were and are doing this in the US, Canada, and Europe already. 2-week quarantine on travel is fairly standard right now.[/QUOTE]There is a difference? The articles or news I've been seeing and reading that those returning to USA Canada, Europe are returning to their homes not arriving as tourist. My cousin return to the USA And did 14 quarantine in his own home. Majority of the ideas Thailand has are to attract tourist or vacationers and before they can start their trip must do the quarantine.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2486512]People were and are doing this in the US, Canada, and Europe already. 2-week quarantine on travel is fairly standard right now.[/QUOTE]The difference is that you are allowed to quarantine wherever you want. In Thailand it is mandatory to quarantine in a designated government facility where prices are jacked up. If I owned a condo in Thailand or a gogo girl said I can stay with her I'm not even allowed to quarantine there, even if the gogo girl said she will quarantine with me in her home for 14 days.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2486535]There is a difference? The articles or news I've been seeing and reading that those returning to USA Canada, Europe are returning to their homes not arriving as tourist. My cousin return to the USA And did 14 quarantine in his own home. Majority of the ideas Thailand has are to attract tourist or vacationers and before they can start their trip must do the quarantine.[/QUOTE]It varies by location, usually you have to go "home" (for whatever that means) for two weeks. Its lessened a lot in the west but was pretty intense for a while. Business people are still doing it and dealing with stuff like being in a hotel for 2 weeks which won't be that different than many other places.


I think you're making FAR too much of the burden of a 2 week quarantine. If you've got to deal with it, people have, and they will.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2486587]even if the gogo girl said she will quarantine with me in her home for 14 days.[/QUOTE]People like you are [I]precisely[/I] why they don't let people quarantine at a place of their choosing. If you're in close contact with other people, you might infect them, and there's no point whatsoever to quarantine.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2486588]It varies by location, usually you have to go "home" (for whatever that means) for two weeks. Its lessened a lot in the west but was pretty intense for a while. Business people are still doing it and dealing with stuff like being in a hotel for 2 weeks which won't be that different than many other places.


I think you're making FAR too much of the burden of a 2 week quarantine. If you've got to deal with it, people have, and they will.[/QUOTE]In all due respect my response is in no way " making too much of it " I was pointing out your remarks to Mr. E, there is a difference being quarantine as a tourist, vacationer compare to what you are now talking about " business " when it comes to Thailand even their government leaders understand this point the reason they are now trying to sell the long term visa program for people who want to stay and by doing so they know you have to have funds the average worker two-six week vacation isn't going to go through all the hoops to get into Thailand and then be quarantine which is what Mr. E is stating and if that is the case I agree with him.

I myself retired leaving Thailand have no problem doing a quarantine in the USA If required and just doing another 14 days returning to Thailand if that was all they wanted that would be fair but it isn't the case here in Thailand. The fact that the leaders keep coming up with nonsense idea is that at person who only has 2-3 weeks isn't going to want to be quarantine they main reason there are no takers unless the place is your home.

The only people who would be remotely interested in this new visa will be.

Long term 3 to 6 month visitors who.

Have an agency do paperwork re visa application insurance quarantine booking embassy visits etc etc.

Have access to advanced rapid result testing where they come from.

Most likely own a high end holiday home here.

Have their own Gulfstream.

Haven't had Thai pussy since early 2020.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2486587]The difference is that you are allowed to quarantine wherever you want. In Thailand it is mandatory to quarantine in a designated government facility where prices are jacked up. If I owned a condo in Thailand or a gogo girl said I can stay with her I'm not even allowed to quarantine there, even if the gogo girl said she will quarantine with me in her home for 14 days.[/QUOTE]Wouldn't everyone on this site suddenly agree and even promote the quarantine rule. This would solve the sex tourist issue for them. They should just make the quarantine city Pattaya and no one here would be complaining.

But how would they solve the issue for the other 90% of tourists? The truth is, even if they opened their borders their are not to many people out their thinking about real vacations right now. Countries that have opened tourism are empty, not too many people keen on risking covid for their whole family for another vacation, that is if they had the money for a vacation his year.

Only tourist group keen on coming to LOS is us. Guys willing to take the risk of barebacking a working girl would have no problem risking covid. Unfortunately, the Thai gov is not interested in us or our providers and figuring out solutions for us.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2486005][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiU9SppsvJs&t=65s[/URL]

It's probably easier to go to the moon with SpaceX (and maybe cheaper)[/QUOTE]I've been getting the feeling over the past two years or so that Thailand is no longer interested in encouraging foreigners into their country. I suspect they are using the pandemic to accomplish their aim.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2486728]I've been getting the feeling over the past two years or so that Thailand is no longer interested in encouraging foreigners into their country. I suspect they are using the pandemic to accomplish their aim.[/QUOTE]That's what a number of people are saying and that's what I've been thinking for a while.

I now think the Thai government is very feverish and just doesn't know what to do.

All his changes of mind, sometimes several times a day, during all these months, seem to me to show that they would like to open the borders because the more time passes, the more quickly the economy sinks.

On the other hand, they are prisoners of their zero goal, of their pride in being the good students of the WHO and they have surfed so much on this theme and have so scared the population that the Thais no longer want to 'foreigners.

Finally, all of Asia is closed. It is even the only subcontinent to be still completely locked, unlike America, Europe, the Middle East and even Africa where many countries are already open or are in the process of opening up. It is complicated for them to take the risk of opening up, of having covid cases in the eyes of other countries in the region.

The result is a schizophrenic atittude. They would like to open but at the same time they set up walls of crazy entry conditions and almost impossible to cross.

And everyone is unhappy....

One thing that is not discussed much on here about the order that Thailand allows people in to their country is the reciprocity rule. Thailand made a stink that they were not on the UK list of countries allowed in to UK. Now that UK has put Thailand on their allowed list I'm sure UK will be bumped up in the rankings even ahead of some other countries with less COVID infections. Thailand is one of 8 countries allowed in to Germany too without any restrictions. 3 other countries that Germany would allow in but are not allowing are China, Japan, and Korea in because of the reciprocity rule. Thailand is a no go to countries like USA and Canada so those 2 countries will be last in because they don't currently allow Thais in. People discuss losing face which I don't believe at all about bar girls. However I do believe Thailand as a country takes countries not allowing Thais to visit as losing face.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2486728]I've been getting the feeling over the past two years or so that Thailand is no longer interested in encouraging foreigners into their country. I suspect they are using the pandemic to accomplish their aim.[/QUOTE]There are so many indications of this from getting a driving licence to dealing with immigration it is more than a feeling. My own take is that these pesky foreigners bring troubling corrupting ideologies like free speech and democracy that don't sit well with the entrenched establishment.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2486684]Wouldn't everyone on this site suddenly agree and even promote the quarantine rule. This would solve the sex tourist issue for them. They should just make the quarantine city Pattaya and no one here would be complaining.[/QUOTE]DazeUp,

You don't seem to understand what quarantine means in Thailand. It is not self-isolation or stay at home notice and be a good boy. I can think of various phrases to describe it. Solitary confinement, enforced isolation, house (or room) arrest amongst them. No alcohol (except what you bring in with you so make that litre of duty free last), no deliveries (Food Panda / Grab Eats / Supermarket shopping bought online), no popping out to 7-11, Soi 6, Walking Street or anywhere else. Definitely no visitors, socially distanced or otherwise.

Some but not all of the Alternative State Quarantine (ASQ) hotels (for foreigners or Thais who want to pay to upgrade) allow the inmates out for half an hour a day once they have tested clear in the first test around day 5 to walk around the pool or terrace but not to go swim in the pool. I've even read blogs from people who paid extra for an ASQ room with a balcony only to find the balcony doors were locked and use was not permitted. In others the only times people get to leave their room is when the cleaners come in every 3rd day and they go to another hotel room for half an hour or to take half a step out of the door to pick up the meals left outside the room. Does it really matter what city the quarantine is in? Indeed if you had to quarantine in this fashion do really want to be staring out at the beach, beer bars, massage parlours etc knowing that you won't be going there for (check the chalk marks on the cell wall) days yet?

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2486684]But how would they solve the issue for the other 90% of tourists? [/QUOTE]They ain't going to try. And the vast majority of Thais (in the country as a whole) don't want them to try. Maybe they've done the maths of what would happen if another lockdown was required and all the factories and offices had to close again. Maybe Khun Prayut sees "virus free Thailand" as some sort of mission to create a legacy. After all it's been 8 years since there was last a coup which well above the average of the last 90 years.

It was very easy for the Thai authorities to take advantage of the general lockdown and keep the girly bars and gogos closed. To break everything and transform these spots into a "family destination". Many people mentioned it and I myself feared it. I remember that at best some information said that these would be the last places to reopen.

But if I believe these last videos, it seems that emblematic places like WS or Nana are reopening little by little. Despite the fact that there are hardly any tourists!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-FXEKP0sA[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnLhEaS-COQ[/URL]

I find it hard to think that these places would start opening again if there was no hope of a recovery in activity over time (by the end of the year ?)

Beware of false hopes, however, we thought that the lockdown would last 2 or 3 months and it is still ongoing 7 months later. In addition, the virus is still very active and many countries are reconfining while most are still closed.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2486684]Wouldn't everyone on this site suddenly agree and even promote the quarantine rule. This would solve the sex tourist issue for them. They should just make the quarantine city Pattaya and no one here would be complaining.
....
Only tourist group keen on coming to LOS is us. Guys willing to take the risk of barebacking a working girl would have no problem risking covid. Unfortunately, the Thai gov is not interested in us or our providers and figuring out solutions for us.[/QUOTE]Ahaha true.

Moreover, it seems that there are thoughts on this subject and encourage tourists to come back by reducing and adjusting the quarantine period in this direction :

1) Reduce quarantine to 7 days :
[URL]https://www.chiangraitimes.com/tourism/thailand-plans-to-reduce-quarantine-for-foreign-tourists-to-7-days/[/URL]

2 ) Amazing Thailand: massage parlors and spas to quarantine foreign tourists. :
[URL]https://www.dailynews.co.th/politics/796788[/URL]
Sorry the article is in Thai. The synthetic Google translation is: " Administrator Friday September 25,2020.

The Daily News reported that Thai health officials were moving forward with a plan to use massage and spa facilities to quarantine foreign tourists. Dr Tharet Kratsanairawiwong of the Department of Health Promotion said the government has decided to reopen the country to foreigners. And a great way to quarantine them would be the world famous Thai massages and Thai spa facilities.

The industry is already studying this issue and a pilot project could start in Krabi, in southern Thailand. Discussions have already taken place subject to certain restrictions. For example, the locations chosen would be far from high population densities. He expected that the program would be presented to the various authorities for their approval within the next month with a decision of the CCSA central committee at the end. ".

[QUOTE=Turgid;2486728]I've been getting the feeling over the past two years or so that Thailand is no longer interested in encouraging foreigners into their country. I suspect they are using the pandemic to accomplish their aim.[/QUOTE]Turgid,

I'm not sure what's causing this feeling. If some part of it comes from other forums (Bangkok Post comments / or the loathsome TVisa) then be aware that quite a significant proportion of the moaners complain about Thailand because that's where they are. If they were in Vietnam / Europe / PI they would be complaining about Vietnam / Europe / PI and may well be doing so in other non-Thai forums. They are not moaning about Thailand, they are moaning because they are moaners.

There's also a sizeable group of long term expats who've been playing the visa system for years if not decades. So when Thailand clamped down on people doing back to back monthly border runs to get another 30 day visa / visa waiver they screamed "they don't want us here". They then took up going to Vientiane or Penang to get back to back 60 day tourist visas and maybe alternating between this and the 30 day border run. This got closed down and they screamed "they don't want us here". Next came the ED Education Visa (sign up to a language school for the duration and you got a year). A couple of years ago Immigration made a high level of attendance at the classes (and tested the applicant's Thai language skills on occasion) as a compliance measure. "They don't want us here" they cried.

I believe a lot of them then went for the Non-Imm O (other) visa with multiple entries. 12 months validity but with a maximum stay of 90 days each visit. No need for funds in Thailand (and I'm doubtful the Embassies had the means to check proof of funds overseas) or proof of income. Importantly for many (but not me) no need for a criminal records check. With the borders closed they couldn't do their 90 day border runs but had the visa amnesty so no worries. Of course the visa amnesty finishes tomorrow and border runs or going to KL / Phnom Penh / Vientiane to get a new 12 months isn't possible and they are screaming "They don't want us here".

These are also the mob who rant about having to leave is ridiculous when they bring vital dollars to the economy. They kind of let themselves down by quoting just how much. Figures of 30,000 baht or $1,000 / month are often used. High rollers indeed.

Well guess what? These people are right. But I emphasise the "us" is not all foreigners but those who have played fast and loose with the visa system, those who work without a work permit or paying tax and social security, those with a criminal past (and often present and future). What country would want them there? Take a look at the US visa requirements. From memory if you have a criminal record for an offence which could have gotten you a prison sentence, even if it was suspended or you were fined instead, you don't get in.

Finally there is the idiot Anutin spouting off about "dirty farangs". It was of course completely out of order. It was not sadly completely untrue. Soi Nana, Patong and particularly Soi Buakhao amongst other areas all have a hard-core of serious soap dodgers. None from this forum, of course!

[URL]https://www.thailand-faq.com/article/application-procedure-for-special-tourist-visa-stv-513701.html[/URL]

I have not seen a list of eligible countries specified. Is it open to everyone ?

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2487035][URL]https://www.thailand-faq.com/article/application-procedure-for-special-tourist-visa-stv-513701.html[/URL][/QUOTE]If you go to Yahoo news you might find a report talking about the details of this so call visa, even before it was purposed fully you can see it isn't going to happen and the comments suggest it pretty much won't the article is something like.

" Special Tousit Visa " STV plus the 25 steps one got to go through to get it!

If these are not fakes news or if the authorities do not change their minds along the way, here are the ideas of what to do next. It can be a good start and prove that things are finally moving.

Sorry the articles are in Thai. I attach a summary in English. You can still use google translate or ask your girlfriend Thaie for the translation.

1) The Thai tourism minister very optimistic about the return of foreign tourists [URL]https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/detail/899418[/URL].

Administrator Friday September 25,2020.

Thai Tourism Minister Pipat Ratchakitprakarn presented all these ideas to reopen the country to foreign tourism.

He now expects tourists to flock to the kingdom by the thousands (per day) and trigger an economic boost. Most importantly, he said that if the first interim measures to open up the country prove successful next month, then in November he was proposing to the government that the 14-day quarantine be down to SEVEN days. Pipat expects the details of the "special tourist visa" to be worked out next Tuesday. He expects the first batch of 300 tourists to arrive on Thursday, October 1 and enter 14-day state quarantine, Bangkok Biz News reported.

Pipat said on a tour organized by the Tourism Council that if the first two batches of 300 foreign tourists per week do not have Covid-19 after testing, he will continue with his "step by step" plan to get it. More and more.

"Three cents a week is clearly not enough," Pipat concluded. He said this needs to be extended to as much as health authorities can handle.

The Tourism Ministry's work with the relevant authorities in Phuket has indicated that the number could soon be 1,000 tourists per day.

And if it works seamlessly, then it could be scaled up to 3,000 per day.

Pipat continued that work is underway with private hospitals to increase the capacity to screen foreigners at alternative state quarantine facilities and alternative local quarantine facilities.

He believed that everything had to go as planned, he would be able to approach the cabinet by mid or end of November with proposals to test foreigners twice in seven days and limit quarantine to only 7 days from 14.

Then the tourists would have the freedom to visit anywhere in the country they want.

He continued his upbeat message by saying he wanted to "turn the crisis into an opportunity" and help drive Thailand's economic recovery from the pandemic.

2) Special tourist visa: "difficult" deployment on October 1, but as soon as possible (Head of TAT) [URL]https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/detail/9630000098133[/URL].

Administrator Friday September 25,2020.

Thailand Tourism Authority Governor Yutthasak Suphasorn told a meeting in Bangkok that discussions are still ongoing regarding the very popular STV or special tourist visa that will see foreign tourists returning to Thailand.

Yutthasak said it would be difficult to meet the original October 1 deadline, but he expected the STV to be available as soon as possible next month.

Discussions are underway with airlines, and the 29 TAT offices around the world are engaging in marketing strategies to inform potential tourists of the arrangements, especially the 14-day state quarantine they will face.

He told the meeting at the Waldorf Astoria that this could happen in Phuket or other tourist areas, it would depend on the willingness of each area to join the plan.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2487041]If these are not fakes news or if the authorities do not change their minds along the way[/QUOTE]P,

Change their minds? Those in control haven't expressed their minds.

You might like to check Mr Phiphat's utterances over the last few months against the outcome. Maybe go back to May, June or July. How many of them have actually happened? Easing from 1 July, 1 August? Remember? Villa Quarantine? Islands of Isolation? Covid corridors and travel bubbles?

Whilst he is the Tourism and Sport Minister as best I can tell he seems to be unelected and part of the Prime Minister's cabinet quota and Reuters tells me he's still the President and CEO of PTG Energy (an operator of gas stations).

He's also neither an ex-General nor a medic on the CCSA. They are the authorities whose minds decide.

So here's the latest if you want to get in to Thailand.

Those who have an Elite Visa and invest 1 million can stay in Thailand long term and get a work permit. Great I thought. Invest 1 million baht? No problem! WRONG! If you want to get to Thailand now you must invest 1 million USD (31 million baht) in real estate! Of course the work permit comes with it because most of us are going to need to work to tie up 31 million baht in Thai real estate. Hmmm, are they going to allow Farang to buy actually land now? Doubtful. It'll be 1 Million USD invested in condos! Don't forget you still have to pay an arm and a leg on top of that to get an Elite Visa.

So who actually still believes they will get in to Thailand any tine soon?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2487279]So here's the latest if you want to get in to Thailand.

Those who have an Elite Visa and invest 1 million can stay in Thailand long term and get a work permit.[/QUOTE]That's not right. The Thai Elite visa is 500,000 Baht for a 5 year stay, 1,000,000 for 10 years amd 2,000,000 for 20 years. There is absolutely no requirement to invest in anything and it is not a work permit. You seem to be merging the visa program with the work permit?

[QUOTE=Downandup;2487334]That's not right. The Thai Elite visa is 500,000 Baht for a 5 year stay, 1,000,000 for 10 years amd 2,000,000 for 20 years. There is absolutely no requirement to invest in anything and it is not a work permit. You seem to be merging the visa program with the work permit?[/QUOTE]It was just announced that if you join the Thai elite program and invest $1 million in Thailand you will get a work permit.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2487339]It was just announced that if you join the Thai elite program and invest $1 million in Thailand you will get a work permit.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1989351/work-permits-for-thai-elite[/URL]

Firstly, as with everything announced in Thailand, it has to pass cabinet approval. Time will tell and the Tourism Authority of Thailand has an even worse record than the Minister of Tourism on delivering on announcements (it was they who announced Elite Card would be allowed entry from July. Never happened and still hasn't).

Even then for THB 1 m you get a 10 year visa, for an extra THB 30 m investment you get a work permit thrown in. Alternatively you can set up a business employing 4 Thais on minimum wage (about THB 300 to 330 a day depending upon province) and get a work permit. Of course after the 10 years the investment may have appreciated but then again it may not or have become almost unsaleable because the sea or river view condo by then has one or more bigger developments blocking both the view and all daylight from it.

Caveat Emptor.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2487394][URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1989351/work-permits-for-thai-elite[/URL]

Even then for THB 1 m you get a 10 year visa, for an extra THB 30 m investment you get a work permit thrown in.r.[/QUOTE]31 million baht or $980,000 US allows you work in Thailand.

At $100 a Western bonk, that is 9,800 bonks.

Thais think Isaan pu$$ies are more valuable than gold.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2487339]It was just announced that if you join the Thai elite program and invest $1 million in Thailand you will get a work permit.[/QUOTE]Maybe this will help in clarifying the new expanded Elite program.

[URL]https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2020/09/25/rejigged-thailand-elite-card-promoting-country-as-an-oasis-for-the-wealthy/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Downandup;2487334]That's not right. The Thai Elite visa is 500,000 Baht for a 5 year stay, 1,000,000 for 10 years amd 2,000,000 for 20 years. There is absolutely no requirement to invest in anything and it is not a work permit. You seem to be merging the visa program with the work permit?[/QUOTE]Sure but AFAIK you can't actually get in to Thailand right now or in the foreseeable future with a Thai Elite Visa alone. The ONLY way Thailand will consider you to enter their country at this time is if you invest $1 M US. Even this is still at the proposal stage. Let me know if things are different because if all it takes is to buy a Thai Elite visa to guarantee entry to Thailand I've decided I will buy one. Have saved a ton of money not going to gogo bars, FKK clubs, and Las Vegas strip clubs in 2020. Not waiting another year and then another year to enter Thailand after the 2nd wave then the 3rd wave and 4th wave. Too many covidiots out there.

Getting a work permit would be nice. I would open up a good somtam shop where hot girls eat for free.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2487586]if all it takes is to buy a Thai Elite visa to guarantee entry to Thailand I've decided I will buy one. Have saved a ton of money not going to gogo bars, FKK clubs, and Las Vegas strip clubs in 2020. Not waiting another year and then another year to enter Thailand after the 2nd wave then the 3rd wave and 4th wave. Too many covidiots out there.

Getting a work permit would be nice. I would open up a good somtam shop where hot girls eat for free.[/QUOTE]And you can hire my Mini to be your sous-chef at the new restaurant. She makes a great som tam. It's her specialty.

But what about the Wuhan vaccine? It is coming soon and I think it will be the game changer. But in the extraordinary circumstance that the Thai Government chooses not to allow vaccine certified tourists into their country, a possibility I guess, then so be it. It will be their loss. Remember a couple of weeks ago we were discussing Cambodian entry requirements and it was shot down on account of the difficulty of obtaining a Cambodian visa, but I am almost 100% sure that Cambodia allow vaccine certified tourists back in even if Thailand says no and I will be happy to spend a couple months in Cambodia. The longest amount of time I ever spent in Cambodia was 2. 5 weeks and that included side trips to Angkor and Kep, but I think a 2 month visit might be very interesting. It would give me the opportunity to get to know the girls really good.

And of course the back up, back up plan is still Sao Paulo. Brazil is open NOW! No quarantine. I could fly down tomorrow if I were willing to chance it. The SP clubs are open and according to various reports doing good business (lots of girls and customers). That says a lot to me about the country and I am warming up to the idea of a SA trip even though it has been over 16 years since I was last there. I stopped going because I prefer the Thai culture and Thai girls, but a change might be real good I know I will just have to accept wading through a lot of silly cones and butt enhancements. Ha ha, but the bottom line is SP definitely has what I like. No question about that.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2487586]Sure but AFAIK you can't actually get in to Thailand right now or in the foreseeable future with a Thai Elite Visa alone. The ONLY way Thailand will consider you to enter their country at this time is if you invest $1 M US. Even this is still at the proposal stage. Let me know if things are different because if all it takes is to buy a Thai Elite visa to guarantee entry to Thailand I've decided I will buy one. Have saved a ton of money not going to gogo bars, FKK clubs, and Las Vegas strip clubs in 2020. Not waiting another year and then another year to enter Thailand after the 2nd wave then the 3rd wave and 4th wave. Too many covidiots out there.

Getting a work permit would be nice. I would open up a good somtam shop where hot girls eat for free.[/QUOTE]You can get in if you already have an elite visa.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2487334]That's not right. The Thai Elite visa is 500,000 Baht for a 5 year stay, 1,000,000 for 10 years amd 2,000,000 for 20 years. There is absolutely no requirement to invest in anything and it is not a work permit. You seem to be merging the visa program with the work permit?[/QUOTE]It seems that Thailand is merging them together: [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1989351/work-permits-for-thai-elite[/URL].

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2487672]You can get in if you already have an elite visa.[/QUOTE]Goat,

It's certainly not on the lists of those eligible which are on the Immigration, Ministry of Public Health or the (admittedly few) Thai Embassy websites and Facebook pages I've checked.

It was one of the many "announcements" made by the Tourism Minister and / or Tourism Authority of Thailand which didn't make it into the Royal Gazette. Until it's in the Royal Gazette, even if it's "announced" as agreed by the Cabinet it means bugger all. This one didn't even make it through Cabinet from anything I have read.

I have heard from a fairly reliable source that for those in country affected by the ending of the visa amnesty they will allow the purchase of a shiny new Elite Card "for the usual fee, plus expenses" (Private Investigations, Dire Straits, 1982) of THB 500 k for a 5 year visa.

There's still a lot of Retirement or Business Visa holders (who didn't need a Work Permit) who aren't allowed in. I also hear anecdotally that both Thais and those with work permits / spouses are waiting significant periods for their turn to get on repatriation flights from some countries. Certainly there was a post on the Thai Embassy Washington Facebook page back in August that they were reopening the waiting list for people to return. It said that capacity for September was 2,400 but there were already nearly 5,000 registered to return.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2487672]You can get in if you already have an elite visa.[/QUOTE]This seems to contradict everything I am reading. From what I read even those with TE Visas have been unable to re-enter Thailand. Hopefully I'm wrong but unless I start hearing actually success stories of guys getting in I will hang on to my 500k baht.

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo;2487671]And of course the back up, back up plan is still Sao Paulo. Brazil is open NOW! No quarantine. [/QUOTE]

Not sure many of us want to go to a country with 530,000 active REPORTED COVID cases.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2487694]Goat,

It's certainly not on the lists of those eligible which are on the Immigration, Ministry of Public Health or the (admittedly few) Thai Embassy websites and Facebook pages I've checked.

It was one of the many "announcements" made by the Tourism Minister and / or Tourism Authority of Thailand which didn't make it into the Royal Gazette. Until it's in the Royal Gazette, even if it's "announced" as agreed by the Cabinet it means bugger all. This one didn't even make it through Cabinet from anything I have read.

I have heard from a fairly reliable source that for those in country affected by the ending of the visa amnesty they will allow the purchase of a shiny new Elite Card "for the usual fee, plus expenses" (Private Investigations, Dire Straits, 1982) of THB 500 k for a 5 year visa.

There's still a lot of Retirement or Business Visa holders (who didn't need a Work Permit) who aren't allowed in. I also hear anecdotally that both Thais and those with work permits / spouses are waiting significant periods for their turn to get on repatriation flights from some countries. Certainly there was a post on the Thai Embassy Washington Facebook page back in August that they were reopening the waiting list for people to return. It said that capacity for September was 2,400 but there were already nearly 5,000 registered to return.[/QUOTE]You are right. I read the announcement but it is not official yet. MM2 H visa holders have been able to return Malaysia since May. I would imagine there are some foreigners holding retirement visas from Thailand that own condos here and cannot return. That must be really frustrating.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2487850]This seems to contradict everything I am reading. From what I read even those with TE Visas have been unable to re-enter Thailand. Hopefully I'm wrong but unless I start hearing actually success stories of guys getting in I will hang on to my 500k baht.

Not sure many of us want to go to a country with 530,000 active REPORTED COVID cases.[/QUOTE]If I were under 45 and in good health, I wouldn't hesitate to go to SP right now. This is what guys over 60 should understand i.e. that for most healthy young people, the Corona is no more dangerous than the flu. Unfortunately, I am over 60, so yeah, I will wait for the vaccine. All I am saying is that as soon as I receive my vaccine (most likely around March / April 2021) I plan to travel right away. If Thailand still has any entry roadblocks up at that time. Then to hell with Thailand. Cambodia and other SE Asian countries is my 2nd choice and Brazil my third. I must say I respect Brazil's balls to stay open during the pandemic. This has elevated my appreciation of the country quite a lot and I am inclined to go there when the risk is back to normal post my vaccine inoculation. I do not appreciate the immigration visa games Thailand is currently playing. They are toying with you guys. Screw that!

So, I am already thinking about a spring trip assuming most countries will be open for certified vaccine travelers. One major question I have is whose nightlife scene will be back up and running reasonably well. BKK and Pattaya look very likely, Phnom Penh the same. But Jakarta is questionable, and Manila is very problematic especially considering the permanent closing of the EDSA Entertainment Complex and a few of my favorite Burgos Bars. W will have to see about MNL. Meanwhile there is no question about SP's post vaccine nightlife scene. I am taking all this into account before I decide where I will be going. The pandemic has had one positive effect, only one, my cash situation is very, very good. HA HA. So, the next couple of trips are going to be huge events regardless of where I go.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2487884]You are right. I read the announcement but it is not official yet. MM2 H visa holders have been able to return Malaysia since May. I would imagine there are some foreigners holding retirement visas from Thailand that own condos here and cannot return. That must be really frustrating.[/QUOTE]Goat,

Yup there's a lot of very frustrated wrinklies in the mid to higher northern latitudes who are looking at a cold dark (and possibly locked down) winter now that October's nearly here and heading to their condo in the tropics until the March equinox is out. The ones I am in contact with are also very jealous.

Many will also have the issue of their annual visa expiring and having to start all over again. Certainly those on Non-Imm O (as opposed to OA) with annual extension ordinarily will not be able to renew outside Thailand.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1993035/thailand-extends-grace-period-for-stranded-foreigners[/URL]

So the visa amnesty ended 31 August but a "grace period" until last Saturday 26 September was allowed. Today they announced (qv) a further grace period to 31 October when quite a few "do the right thing" types bugged out in the last few weeks because the options for staying were silly expensive, be it Elite or Investors visa, or dodgy like the volunteer visa or ED visa from a language school with no classes or customers.

Some might view this as another attempt to flog expensive visa options. Me? I just know This is Thailand (TiT).

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2487671]But what about the Wuhan vaccine? It is coming soon[/QUOTE]Pantomime season seems to have started early. Even once if it's shown to be safe and effective it would take many months to ramp up production and then for priorities such as healthcare workers to be vaccinated before the wider population gets a sniff.

Maybe there'll be a breakthrough in Mid-October which will be promising deliverance but it will be shelved by around 10 November.

A new day a new Visa on being discussed. This Visa sounds much more reasonable. It's called the STV Special Tourist Visa. All you need to do is show you have 500,000 baht in your bank account "for some time". This Visa is in talks now. No idea which countries it will include.

Good morning?

Here in Thailand another headline this morning this one seem a bit more promising? Thailand to let more Foreigners in? Now they are purposing another phase allow sports persons so if you cycle and play badminton you can apply. If you hold a Non-Immigrant visa and have 500,000 baht in a Thai bank for the last six month you can apply.

The S. T. V. Idea has gotten the nod to move forward. But some medical experts are saying if foreigners are allow in it will be a disaster to the country. The article today again ends with you contacting the Thai Embassy for details and when you do before jumping up and down will find the game is still the same you got to do and have all the things you needed before including quarantine. Of course just the other day suggested the 14 days drop to 7 but before the ink was dry Scientist said nothing less than 10 days so opinions like everything else is just smoke and mirrors?

On the surface ideas after ideas this latest one trumps the others why would anyone spend a million USA Dollars and invest when it is much cheaper to apply for these other visa that already been suggested medical, business, the reason the constant suggestion is non of the previous has worked or will work this latest the article makes it seem by 8th of October the arrival immigration area will be packed.


Vaccine? I've been reading articles relating, regardless of Russia and China already ready to put one out there something like 2 dozens in the works but only 2 that are near completion? The USA Has already taken a gamble and started to produce even before the final stage and put out alert for those who want to official distribute license to get ready. The two leading vaccine has to be kept in specific temperature one will required two shots something like 2 weeks apart the other only 1 shot, it seems both will take at least a month before your body starts to produce anti-bodies. The lastest article I read that within all the thousands being tested in phase three there aren't enough older volunteers so they have very little data / results how effective it will be.

I personally hope something is in place by the end of the year from there I hope it at least it slows down the virus so things start to open up along with airlines flying? List of countries Asia Pacific Economic cardholders? in low risk area? NZ, Austrilia, Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, Japan, China and Hong Kong.

In the news today is an American who is being sued for defamation over a bad review of a hotel on Trip Advisor. Just a reminder to guys on here that Thailand has zero tolerance to people who write online reviews that are damaging a Thai business. He is facing 2 years in jail. This could be as simple as a guy the other day saying he doesn't understand why guys like Kinnaree or doesn't agree with the services Offdek has to offer. In these dire times, expect more law suits from desperate Thai businesses so be careful what you say on the internet about a bar, massage place, hotel, etc.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2488142]In the news today is an American who is being sued for defamation over a bad review of a hotel on Trip Advisor. [/QUOTE]This is a little background on the American.

[URL]https://twitter.com/gavin_mac/status/1310793160327483393?s=19[/URL]

Friday is probably Wan Awk Phansa, a religious holiday marking the end of Buddhist Lent. I say probably because as often happens different countries use different dates and so until the formal order is issued dot, dot, dot (previous post about visa situation applies to this one as well). As with all religious holidays the sale of alcohol will be prohibited from midnight Thursday night to midnight Friday night. Article at:

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2020/09/28/end-of-buddhist-lent-will-be-held-in-thailand-friday-october-2-booze-sales-ban-nearly-certain/[/URL]

It is not a public holiday so banks and Government Offices should be open as normal.

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2488171]This is a little background on the American.

[URL]https://twitter.com/gavin_mac/status/1310793160327483393?s=19[/URL][/QUOTE]Incredible. Read the whole police affidavit. It gets crazier and crazier.

This is the Great American Martyr people are freaking out about.

Leaving a one-star review because the soup was cold or you got a toothy blowjob at a soapy probably won't land you in prison. If you want to stay out of prison, don't falsely accuse people of slavery, and don't be a serial killer.

Saw a report today that they will allow the first flight into Thailand of course from China in a week this is under the Phuket plan? This is Phuket only for starter projected something like 12,000 a month which will generate so many millions billions for their economy whether they had to go through all the hoops but did mentioned tourist will be quarantine and need to be tested twice during that period.

[QUOTE=Buscar;2488211]Incredible. Read the whole police affidavit. It gets crazier and crazier.

This is the Great American Martyr people are freaking out about.

Leaving a one-star review because the soup was cold or you got a toothy blowjob at a soapy probably won't land you in prison. If you want to stay out of prison, don't falsely accuse people of slavery, and don't be a serial killer.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2488171]This is a little background on the American.

[URL]https://twitter.com/gavin_mac/status/1310793160327483393?s=19[/URL][/QUOTE]The police affidavit is interesting for sure.

But what was the Donald Trump mask in the trunk for?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2488219]Saw a report today that they will allow the first flight into Thailand of course from China in a week this is under the Phuket plan? This is Phuket only for starter projected something like 12,000 a month which will generate so many millions billions for their economy whether they had to go through all the hoops but did mentioned tourist will be quarantine and need to be tested twice during that period.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/thailand-slowly-restart-tourism-flight-072241418.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Buscar;2488211]Incredible. Read the whole police affidavit. It gets crazier and crazier.

This is the Great American Martyr people are freaking out about.

Leaving a one-star review because the soup was cold or you got a toothy blowjob at a soapy probably won't land you in prison. If you want to stay out of prison, don't falsely accuse people of slavery, and don't be a serial killer.[/QUOTE]It's just a police statement. We don't know how that case ended up but as he doesn't appear to be on an FBI wanted list it's fair to assume he wasn't convicted or even charged with murder of any serious offence.

It's irrelevant anyway. The point is the hotel could have just replied directly to the reviews and explained their side of the story and the whole thing would have blown over very quickly. I'm sure everyone who reads reviews knows that there may be hyperbole in what disgruntled guests write. Now they've brought a PR disaster on themselves that they can never recover from.

[QUOTE=*****man;2488243]It's irrelevant anyway. The point is the hotel could have just replied directly to the reviews and explained their side of story and the whole thing would have blown over very quickly. I'm sure everyone who reads reviews knows that there may be hyperbole in what disgruntled guests write. Now they've brought a PR disaster on themselves that they can never recover from.[/QUOTE]There are 2 sides to every story. The American wouldn't let it rest.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1992079/koh-chang-resort-defends-suit-against-unhappy-expat-guest[/URL]

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2488247]There are 2 sides to every story. The American wouldn't let it rest.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1992079/koh-chang-resort-defends-suit-against-unhappy-expat-guest[/URL][/QUOTE]He posted two reviews but he posted them to both Google and TripAdvisor. That's hardly not letting it rest. The attitude of this hotel just shows the customer was right that the manager really is full of himself.

[QUOTE=*****man;2488250]He posted two reviews but he posted them to both Google and TripAdvisor. That's hardly not letting it rest. The attitude of this hotel just shows the customer was right that the manager really is full of himself.[/QUOTE]In the Bangkok post article if you read down into the Richard Barrow tweet the hotel states he has been posting on going negative reviews every 1 to 2 weeks since June. What is the hotel supposed to do? Let this nut harass them forever? They didn't arrest him over 2 reviews.

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2488267]In the Bangkok post article if you read down into the Richard Barrow tweet the hotel states he has been posting on going negative reviews every 1 to 2 weeks since June. What is the hotel supposed to do? Let this nut harass them forever? They didn't arrest him over 2 reviews.[/QUOTE]The facts don't appear to back up their claim. It seems they did indeed arrest him over 2 reviews unless you can find some actual evidence that there were reviews other than the two that have been published.

[QUOTE=*****man;2488272]The facts don't appear to back up their claim. It seems they did indeed arrest him over 2 reviews unless you can find some actual evidence that there were reviews other than the two that have been published.[/QUOTE]Lesson learned then. Don't give a bad review on trip advisor and google in Thailand!

[QUOTE=EdSetra;2488224]The police affidavit is interesting for sure.

But what was the Donald Trump mask in the trunk for?[/QUOTE]He's been convicted of at least three counts of burglary, so a mask is useful in his profession. He also claimed to be a hitman, and the DNA from various people on his bloody hammer and rags backs that up, so that's another profession in which disguises are handy. Unfortunately, masks don't help much during DUIs, which he has been convicted of at least four times. Funny that he was not only allowed to leave the US and enter Thailand, but was hired as a teacher in Thailand. This should be a scandal, but the ninnies shrieking about "prison for bad reviews" are confused about what the real scandal is.

Falsely accusing people of crimes ("modern slavery") is not protected speech even in the US, which has among the best free speech protections in the world.

BananaBoi said Thailand has "zero tolerance" for bad reviews. Yet nearly every business in Thailand has numerous bad reviews on Google etc. "Zero tolerance" would mean millions of people imprisoned every year. How many have actually been imprisoned for bad reviews, rather than false accusing people of serious crimes?

[QUOTE=Buscar;2488328]BananaBoi said Thailand has "zero tolerance" for bad reviews. Yet nearly every business in Thailand has numerous bad reviews on Google etc. "Zero tolerance" would mean millions of people imprisoned every year. How many have actually been imprisoned for bad reviews, rather than false accusing people of serious crimes?[/QUOTE]Zero tolerance for defamation. Look up Thai Criminal Code Sections 0326 to 0333. It's not like USA where there is freedom of speech and you can even say whatever you want about Trump. Try talking badly and disrespecting the King in Thailand and see where that lands them. Likely the hospital for starters.

Why have there not been numerous cases? Because most businesses know it's better to eat a negative review than to blow it up and receive lots of bad press. However, in these special times desperate businesses may do desperate things.

Bad dishonest reviews have no negative effect on an establishment that provides good service. A business that has its feathers ruffled by and takes action against bad reviews is one to be scrutinized very carefully.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8797765/British-expat-62-dead-Thai-forest-girlfriend-43-claims-ran-away.html[/URL]

An odd one this. Why did he run off with the strap of his girl friend's hand bag? Either he was murdered (no surprise) or high on yabba to relieve pain. Let's hope the girl friend, the real victim in this, finds another sponsor. The course of true love sure can be rough.

So a teenage kid with no license takes someone's motorbike without permission. The kid runs into my friend's car causing damage to himself, the motorbike, and my friend's car.

Guess who was held responsible for all 3 damages? If you answered the foreigner then you are absolutely correct. They wanted 100,000 baht, but my friend bargained them down to 15,000 baht. I know you guys that don't like to ruin the mood by negotiating would have given them 150,000 baht for that most enjoyable BOHICA experience.

This press article pretty much sums up exactly what I think about the situation.

[URL]https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/hard-truths-about-travelling-to-thailand-right-now[/URL]

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2489271]This press article pretty much sums up exactly what I think about the situation.

[URL]https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/hard-truths-about-travelling-to-thailand-right-now[/URL][/QUOTE]It is information like that we need now. I doubt I will ever see Thailand again and your link tells me it is no loss. Corrupt people anywhere just cannot mend their ways, no matter what the cost is.

Is the Thai king still "quarantining" in Germany?

On a positive note, there will be no shortage of young women to plant and harvest Isaan's rice next season.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2489195]So a teenage kid with no license takes someone's motorbike without permission. The kid runs into my friend's car causing damage to himself, the motorbike, and my friend's car.

Guess who was held responsible for all 3 damages? If you answered the foreigner then you are absolutely correct. They wanted 100,000 baht, but my friend bargained them down to 15,000 baht. I know you guys that don't like to ruin the mood by negotiating would have given them 150,000 baht for that most enjoyable BOHICA experience.[/QUOTE]This is not hard for the Thai police to understand. The kid did not have insurance and the farang had insurance. If, there was was no farang car, there would not be an accident. So, its a no brainer.

Easy for Thai logic.

[QUOTE=EdSetra;2488224]The police affidavit is interesting for sure.

But what was the Donald Trump mask in the trunk for?[/QUOTE]Did you ever see that movie Point Blank with Keanu Reeves? They use presidential masks of several former presidents during a bank robbery.

Considering the problems that arise to bring in 120 Chinese tourists, I do not see how they are going to reopen the borders to tourism.

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1997011/reopen-now-or-face-collapse[/URL]

------------------------------

"Thailand is bearing the brunt of the economic consequences of the crisis linked to the Covid-19 epidemic, in particular due to the almost complete closure of its borders. The country will sink into a recession of around 8% in 2020, notably following the end of international tourism and the fall in exports.

The social crisis linked to this economic recession promises to be unprecedented, in a turbulent political context. The recovery trajectory for Thailand after the crisis remains very uncertain, due to the uncertainties weighing on tourist flows and competitiveness problems which have steadily increased since the mid-2000's. ".

French Ministry of the Economy and Finance > Tresor-International > THAILAND > Indicators and conjuncture. September 24 2020.

(Google Translate by myself ....)

[URL]https://www.godsavethepoints.com/thailand-travel-tourist-stv-visa-program-fails/[/URL]

I wonder how the Chinese feel who have been taken for unfortunate Guinea pigs....

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2491303][URL]https://www.godsavethepoints.com/thailand-travel-tourist-stv-visa-program-fails/[/URL]

I wonder how the Chinese feel who have been taken for unfortunate Guinea pigs....[/QUOTE]The border closure and absence of tourism are hurting the people not the king (who is in Germany) and members of the government.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2491337]The border closure and absence of tourism are hurting the people not the king (who is in Germany) and members of the government.[/QUOTE]Mmmm not sure.

[URL]https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1186488-poll-majority-of-thais-say-no-to-foreign-tourists-they-fear-more-covid/[/URL]

"90% of the inhabitants of Chiang Mai are afraid of return of foreign tourists" according to another poll by Maejo Poll published today (Sorry i only have french version :
https://cmdecidela.com/2020/10/08/90-des-habitants-de-chiang-mai-ont-peur-du-retour-des-touristes-etrangers/ )


After that, one can always wonder how these polls are made....

[URL]https://www.holidaypirates.com/flights/flights-to-bangkok-thailand-in-2021-from-gbp-327-return_37116[/URL]

Cheap prices but I can't see it happen. They are giving flights in Europe away for next to zilch but few takers.

The rules of the game: the worse you are in your COVID results, the more you pay for your mandatory insurance.

[URL]https://www.tipinsure.com/CovidRegional/step_1[/URL]

1 - Among the best: Germany. Ok no arguing, they are having exceptional results again. I don't know how they do it but once again they are the best.

In addition, the king does his lokckdown at their place. No one can fight. These are the winners.

2 - UK! They pay twice less for their insurance when they are among the worst scores in the world ! They must have bought the jury.

3 - At the back of the pack: USA and France. We pay twice the price of others because we are supposedly countries at risk! It is totally unfair. Let's make the revolution.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2491451]The rules of the game: the worse you are in your COVID results, the more you pay for your mandatory insurance.

https://www.tipinsure.com/CovidRegional/step_1[/QUOTE]I checked out 30 days as an alien (Star Trek) seeking medical help. 2500 Thai baht. Might be ok if you could hole up with "nurses" in Nana but I imagine the visa would be hard to get. For me, the SE Asian file is closed. But so are many others. Young are having house parties, raves etc, old are scared to death.

The days of the sex tourist 1970's-2020 RIP.

I am in touch with old timers still trying top turn a trick. The place is gone to shtt according to them.

"The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time".

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2491356]Mmmm not sure.

[URL]https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1186488-poll-majority-of-thais-say-no-to-foreign-tourists-they-fear-more-covid/[/URL]

"90% of the inhabitants of Chiang Mai are afraid of return of foreign tourists" according to another poll by Maejo Poll published today (Sorry i only have french version :
https://cmdecidela.com/2020/10/08/90-des-habitants-de-chiang-mai-ont-peur-du-retour-des-touristes-etrangers/ )


After that, one can always wonder how these polls are made....[/QUOTE]I wonder what percent are afraid of ghosts. Quite a few Thai ladies I've met were terrified of them. Some mentioned being afraid of the Rajah Hotel. Did someone die there and leave there ghost behind. LOL.

Bernard Trink's cremation is at Wat Ta Thong (Ekkamai station) today at 2 pm. Those of you who don't know who he is or are not familiar with his place in BKK nightlife history should do a little reading.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2490220]In calendar year 2020. I'm working on a few things to try getting in. Remember I'm not a typical tourist. [/QUOTE]I had heard this may become an option to getting in to Thailand so I booked a Bangkok hotel.

[QUOTE]Foreigners who own property in Thailand have been added to the group of non-Thais who are now able to apply to return to the country. But before you get too excited, be warned there are a whole host of eye opening requirements that need to be met as part of the application process.

Firstly, property owners need to be able to provide documentation that shows they do indeed own a property, this could be in the form of a house registration book or proof of purchase documentation.

Next, (and this is the first of the eye opening requirements) they need to be able to provide a copy of a bank statement that shows a balance of at least 3 million baht deposited into a Thai bank account. They also need to show a bank statement from a <insert your country> bank account that has a balance of 500,000 baht for the past 6 months. They then need to meet all the other requirements necessary for any non-Thai returning to Thailand currently such as, Certificate of Entry, declaration form, quarantine booking, Fit to Fly Certificate, COVID-19 negative test result and an insurance policy which covers COVID-19 and up to 100,000 USD.

Once all of the requirements have been met, the foreign property owner then needs to apply for a Non-B visa to enter Thailand.

While the addition of foreign property owners gives hope to some foreigners to be able return to Thailand, it may do little to help what is arguably one the biggest groups of foreigners stranded outside the kingdom - expat retirees. <snip>

The full list of requirements for foreign property owners to enter Thailand can be found below:

For non-Thai who own property in Thailand

While Thailand still puts in place travel restriction, foreigners who own property in Thailand can apply for non-B visa and the Certificate of Entry to go to Thailand.

Required documents :
Your passport copy
Copy of property ownership document in Thailand, or proof of purchase of property and relevant documents
Copy of bank statements of a Thai bank account with deposit at least 3 million baht (approx. 77,000), or Thai government bonds at least 3 million baht
Copy of bank statement of a UK/Irish bank account with deposit at least 500,000 baht (approx. 12,800) for the past 6 months
Declaration form
A copy of flight confirmation
A copy of ASQ booking confirmation
<snip>

What you need to present at airlines check-in counter and upon arrival in Thailand:
The Certificate of Entry
Declaration form
Fit to Fly health certificate, issued within 72 hours before departure this is a statement by a doctor that you are free from symptoms and fit to fly (must be separate from COVID test)
COVID-19 test result, with a laboratory output indicating that COVID -19 is not detected (COVID test must be by RT-PCR method), issued within 72 hours before departure
Copy of your insurance policy which covers COVID-19 and no less than 100,000 USD
Copy of your confirmed booking at an ASQ hotel
T.8 form [/QUOTE]So even if you own property you still have to stay at one of the designated hotels. Guess that's not a huge deal other than you really wouldn't be allowed to leave the ASQ hotel as I'm sure staff has been instructed to monitor quarantine guests closely. The only minor issue is that I am pretty certain anyone who was out of Thailand when the borders closed would not have their proof of property ownership documentation with them. Guess they can have their favorite gogo girl send that stuff to them.

However, here is one big requirement that there is no chance in hell I will follow. I refuse to deposit 3 million Thai baht ($97,000 US) and leave it in a Thai bank account! I'd bet that most guys who own property in Thailand don't even have disposable cash like that. Anyone smart would have that money invested in other real estate or something else.

Even AFTER you have done all of the above and have the 3 million baht in the Thai bank account you are now qualified to APPLY for a Visa! No guarantee you will actually get in to Thailand!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2491830]Bernard Trink's cremation is at Wat Ta Thong (Ekkamai station) today at 2 pm. Those of you who don't know who he is or are not familiar with his place in BKK nightlife history should do a little reading.[/QUOTE]I still have a collection of his pages from the BKK post as night owl from the 80's,that's when the nightlife was best.

Didn't know he had snuffed it. Dinty moore stew could save him.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2491833]I had heard this may become an option to getting in to Thailand so I booked a Bangkok hotel.

So even if you own property you still have to stay at one of the designated hotels. Guess that's not a huge deal other than you really wouldn't be allowed to leave the ASQ hotel as I'm sure staff has been instructed to monitor quarantine guests closely. The only minor issue is that I am pretty certain anyone who was out of Thailand when the borders closed would not have their proof of property ownership documentation with them. Guess they can have their favorite gogo girl send that stuff to them.

However, here is one big requirement that there is no chance in hell I will follow. I refuse to deposit 3 million Thai baht ($97,000 US) and leave it in a Thai bank account! I'd bet that most guys who own property in Thailand don't even have disposable cash like that. Anyone smart would have that money invested in other real estate or something else.

Even AFTER you have done all of the above and have the 3 million baht in the Thai bank account you are now qualified to APPLY for a Visa! No guarantee you will actually get in to Thailand![/QUOTE]Sorry I don't have a bright answer for you I understand your need to return in fact I'm pulling for you because if you can get in we are making some progress for me to leave and return myself. Whatever the idea by the government you break it down through " critical thinking " I wish I was wrong but it isn't going to happen all they seem to be doing is throwing idea's out there to show the Thai people they are doing something which just end up to be nothing. The more they talk the worse it gets till one idea is falling all over the other?

Currently if you want to get in suppose to need $100,000 USD insurance but if you apply from one of the listed so call safe country you (STV) you need only the O-A insurance amount 40,000 baht out-patient 400,000 in-patient. Then you got programs if you invest $1 million USD = 30 M baht when they have already suggested programs for far cheaper the list goes on and on. For those who have a Elite minimum it is reported beginning of the year they are going to raise the amount 100,000 baht from the 500,000 now that is just damn smart on their part.

I still don't know why you are all discussing the weird intricacies of the current thai visa schemes, hoping to get back, when these new visas are clearly not meant for general tourism, but basically to formally accommodate a tiny sliver of people who fell through the cracks, business people, and rich Chinese flying in on their own chartered flights. General tourism in Thailand is dead right now and don't expect it to come back this year. When the tourist-centric businesses start feeling the pain early next year is probably when they'll start getting more open to letting tourists back in.

All of these rules and such are specifically them telling the travel community, but in an eastern way: Tourism is not happening right now, you can't come.... unless you're rich with business here of course, then we've got a way. They're just taking care of their high rollers.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2492282]I still don't know why you are all discussing the weird intricacies of the current thai visa schemes, hoping to get back, when these new visas are clearly not meant for general tourism, but basically to formally accommodate a tiny sliver of people who fell through the cracks, business people, and rich Chinese flying in on their own chartered flights. General tourism in Thailand is dead right now and don't expect it to come back this year. When the tourist-centric businesses start feeling the pain early next year is probably when they'll start getting more open to letting tourists back in.

All of these rules and such are specifically them telling the travel community, but in an eastern way: Tourism is not happening right now, you can't come.... unless you're rich with business here of course, then we've got a way. They're just taking care of their high rollers.[/QUOTE]I thought with the three week delay for the first batch traveling on the STV, it all but confirmed that they were not tourists but business-people or VIPs. Turns out it's not even that.

[URL]https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/visa/no-one-in-guangzhou-applied-for-the-special-tourist-visa[/URL]

This is a real egg-on-face moment.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2492282]I still don't know why you are all discussing the weird intricacies of the current thai visa schemes, hoping to get back, when these new visas are clearly not meant for general tourism, but basically to formally accommodate a tiny sliver of people who fell through the cracks, business people, and rich Chinese flying in on their own chartered flights. General tourism in Thailand is dead right now and don't expect it to come back this year. When the tourist-centric businesses start feeling the pain early next year is probably when they'll start getting more open to letting tourists back in.

All of these rules and such are specifically them telling the travel community, but in an eastern way: Tourism is not happening right now, you can't come.... unless you're rich with business here of course, then we've got a way. They're just taking care of their high rollers.[/QUOTE]Seems they don't want to open up to general tourism while there is the possibility of even a single infection coming in. Good luck with that. Even with vaccines it will be years before the world is free of Covid 19 if even then. Meanwhile Thailand's tourism infrastructure becomes moribund with the real possibility it will take years to recover. It's not as if there are no other destination options for travelers. So what will change the mindset of the uniforms? Public opinion? If you can believe the polls seems Thais are happy with the way things are. Umm really. Economics? More likely in my opinion. GDP shrinking, fiscal deficits soaring, banks straining under NPL's from failing businesses, unemployment in the millions. Sooner or later they will have to come to their senses and open up with a strategy of testing and containing. As somebody who is enjoying the mongering benefits of little or no competition I feel for the girls back in their villages with no income to support themselves or their families.

P.S. Monty Python couldn't have dreamed up the fiasco with the plane load of Chinese tourists that never existed.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2492282]I still don't know why you are all discussing the weird intricacies of the current thai visa schemes, hoping to get back, when these new visas are clearly not meant for general tourism, but basically to formally accommodate a tiny sliver of people who fell through the cracks, business people, and rich Chinese flying in on their own chartered flights. General tourism in Thailand is dead right now and don't expect it to come back this year. When the tourist-centric businesses start feeling the pain early next year is probably when they'll start getting more open to letting tourists back in.

All of these rules and such are specifically them telling the travel community, but in an eastern way: Tourism is not happening right now, you can't come.... unless you're rich with business here of course, then we've got a way. They're just taking care of their high rollers.[/QUOTE]In all due respect I'm curious? " General Tourism " this thread was created years ago for a specific reason but like all the others threads topic can't be contain exactly nor perfectly so what exactly would you consider should be in this thread " General " your comment although valid just adds to the continuation of the discussion which makes you part of the problem if there is one? "General Tourism" that pretty much pin point as to why it is being discussed because like most stuff not all people can understand the weird intricacies of the current Thai visa schemes so it has to be discussed over and over again. Right now especially with things being closed there really isn't much to talk about?

Nothing personal didn't mean to turn your comments into sour grapes?

In fact the plane filled with Chinese that was to land in Phuket was empty.

Probably the reason it was canceled.

[URL]https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1187024-stv-not-a-single-chinese-person-actually-applied-for-a-special-visa-tat-supplied-list-of-names/[/URL]

No Chinese, nor any tourist in the world, wants the STV visa with its delusional conditions (quarantine, insurance, bank deposit, .).

The other point is the question about the credibility of advertisements which contradict each other from one day to the next. How to trust?

Finally, how to get into cumbersome and complicated procedures, buy plane tickets, book a hotel or condo, buy insurance at an exorbitant price with a great chance that it will not succeed?

The real truth is not one Chinese even applied! The Knuckle head that came up with the STV must be hiding behind a rock right now, has company with the fool in Rayong who suggested giving visa to those who want to do a prison tour.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2492282]I still don't know why you are all discussing the weird intricacies of the current thai visa schemes, hoping to get back, when these new visas are clearly not meant for general tourism,[/QUOTE]Agree that it appears any glimmer of hope we may have of getting in to Thailand is squashed by Thai Immigration before it becomes reality. Even for those who have an Elite Visa, own property in Thailand, or have a Thai spouse. However, imo discussion of how one is able to get back in to Thailand is the single most important topic there is right now for a Thailand sex board. Other than a small handful of members who are still in Thailand, reading any reviews online only matters if we can actually get back in to Thailand. Someone like ET, Goat, Mr. E, or MP may post face pics of the hottest girl in Thailand giving great PSE / GFE service at 1500 baht per night but what does that really matter to the rest of us who can't actually see the girl because we can't get in to Thailand!

I wasn't meaning to be a dick, and yes, basically nothing is going on right now to talk about. But I dunno, it seems like there might be something more useful than a failed thai visa scheme intended for not regular people is better -- like is there anything upcoming that might actually be useful? Thailand sure seems like its basically on lockdown for foreigners right now. Like, hell, especially for people there, what news is there on tourists coming back that we don't see on from the outside or has anyone got back and done the 14-day situation and intend to stay long (er) term? Are businesses failing hard yet? Especially I can see the south and islands economies getting trashed, but for many thais, they will see good and bad there, especially with how many foreigners own a lot of the tourist infrastructure.

Hell I mean if anything comes out of this visa situation good, maybe it will be them permanently extending the general thai tourist visa to 90 days without any extra work.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2492553]The real truth is not one Chinese even applied! The Knuckle head that came up with the STV must be hiding behind a rock right now, has company with the fool in Rayong who suggested giving visa to those who want to do a prison tour.[/QUOTE]"Measures to arrive in China: In addition, all arrivals from overseas are subject to quarantine for a period of 14 days in a place designated by local authorities. ".

Who are the Chinese nationals who will agree to do 14 days of quarantine to arrive in Thailand and another 14 days of quarantine to return to China?

I find it difficult to understand the decisions of the Thai government. Most of the countries of Asia, Australia and New Zealand are hermetically sealed and do not want any arrival or under draconian conditions. But the Thai government continues to believe that it will be able to bubble travel with countries that have no covid cases and that tourists will flock.

They should open the borders to Europe and the USA who are the only ones who can and want to come to Thailand ^^

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2492678]"Measures to arrive in China: In addition, all arrivals from overseas are subject to quarantine for a period of 14 days in a place designated by local authorities. ".

Who are the Chinese nationals who will agree to do 14 days of quarantine to arrive in Thailand and another 14 days of quarantine to return to China?

I find it difficult to understand the decisions of the Thai government. Most of the countries of Asia, Australia and New Zealand are hermetically sealed and do not want any arrival or under draconian conditions. But the Thai government continues to believe that it will be able to bubble travel with countries that have no covid cases and that tourists will flock.

They should open the borders to Europe and the USA who are the only ones who can and want to come to Thailand ^^[/QUOTE]News reports are now coming out that the "150 Chinese from Guangzhou" was just a story that was made up to make it look like someone would actually utilize the "Special Tourist Visa". Total BS by the government to look like they were doing something about the lack of any foreign tourists.

In reality, we all just have to wait for vaccines to be developed and distributed to the civilized world. Seems that there were several setbacks on the vaccine trials that were reported in the business news like CNBC and Fox Business.

Patience folks, give it three or four months and we will all just be back to normal and everyone around the world will be smiling again and sending their Covid bills to China for payment.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2492735]

Patience folks, give it three or four months and we will all just be back to normal and everyone around the world will be smiling again and sending their Covid bills to China for payment.[/QUOTE]That's wishful thinking. Early next year is when the first vaccine is expected to become available but then it has to be mass produced and distributed to the most vulnerable in society. I don't think many sex tourists would qualify. It's definitely not going to give anywhere near 100% protection. 50% protection is the threshold that the regulators will be using to approve it. As Thailand has boxed itself into the zero covid mentality, I can't see them accepting even vaccinated tourists and it's going to be 2022 before any vaccine is widely available in Thailand.

I just this Bangkok Post article that says Astrazeneca will be manufacturing their vaccine in Thailand and it should be available in the middle of next year but it's going to take months to produce enough doses and give them to enough people so I still think 2022 is a realistic target.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2001551/thailand-to-make-supply-covid-jab-by-astrazeneca

As all of you know there are a number of vaccines being produced and tested from what I'm reading there are only two that are close which requires shots in the arm one of the leaders require two shots. USA And someone else has already team up throwing gambling billions in already producing something like 100 million plus before the final testing and numbers are in just to get ahead of the game. As noted front line first then old folks like myself? Does that mean as soon as it happens the doors are going to open we all know that answer.

With all the bone head ideas that go nowhere which aren't thought out nothing more than hot air I think the contract sign by Thailand with Britain (Oxford) to produce their vaccine has more light at the end of the tunnel why it is about money! If Thailand is going to produce any vaccine for anyone whether it works are not they got to standby it to keep Thailand close as they are doing now while prducing the vaccine is a slap in the face so I'm hoping and that is a big hope as long you have gotten the vaccine you can come without jumping through all the nonsense hoops and idea's now!

No vaccine is going to wipe things out but if it slows it down and allow the world to get on with business that is more hope than what these *******es are coming up with! Remember it isn't all up to Thailand anymore it is up to the Airline they can't just say we are flying tomorrow it take a good month to get ready.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2492914]As all of you know there are a number of vaccines being produced and tested from what I'm reading there are only two that are close which requires shots in the arm one of the leaders require two shots. USA And someone else has already team up throwing gambling billions in already producing something like 100 million plus before the final testing and numbers are in just to get ahead of the game. As noted front line first then old folks like myself? Does that mean as soon as it happens the doors are going to open we all know that answer.

With all the bone head ideas that go nowhere which aren't thought out nothing more than hot air I think the contract sign by Thailand with Britain (Oxford) to produce their vaccine has more light at the end of the tunnel why it is about money! If Thailand is going to produce any vaccine for anyone whether it works are not they got to standby it to keep Thailand close as they are doing now while prducing the vaccine is a slap in the face so I'm hoping and that is a big hope as long you have gotten the vaccine you can come without jumping through all the nonsense hoops and idea's now!

No vaccine is going to wipe things out but if it slows it down and allow the world to get on with business that is more hope than what these *******es are coming up with! Remember it isn't all up to Thailand anymore it is up to the Airline they can't just say we are flying tomorrow it take a good month to get ready.[/QUOTE]Yes, most of us on this forum are older, so I was assuming that we would be in the priority group to get the vaccines, when ever they are available. I am just being optimistic that we can look forward to vaccine availability here in the US in a few months. I can't estimate what the rest of the world is looking at, but I am sure the companies developing the vaccines will be racing with each other to get them approved and produced ASAP. The last folks getting their vaccine on the market may find themselves with a lot of inventory where ever they are in the world. Just hoping for the best and whistling Dixie until then!

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493031]Yes, most of us on this forum are older, so I was assuming that would be in the priority group to get the vaccines, when ever they are available. I am just being optimistic that we can look forward to vaccine availability here in the US in a few months. I can't estimate what the rest of the world is looking at, but I am sure the companies developing the vaccines will be racing with each other to get them approved and produced ASAP. The last folks getting their vaccine on the market may find themselves with a lot of inventory where ever they are in the world. Just hoping for the best and whistling Dixie until then![/QUOTE]I agree, even if something comes out in the fall the second wave of people will be basically those like myself on Medicare. CDC has already been authorized to run the distribution in the States and put out notices to business like Walgreen to apply for the license and equip their facilities to be able to store the vaccine at a specific temperature. I have been in touch with my cousin who runs one of the Veteran Hospital in the West coast with updates mostly I want to know the results when they start their distribution.

For me stuck here in Thailand I seriously doubt they will have it available but private hospital like Bangkok / Pattaya might be able to obtain but I'm sure the price will be high. If this is the case I will only shell out the money if the Thai government clear all their hurdles so I can move freely which means leaving Thailand and returning without all the hoops that are require now.

Is the vaccine a cure of course not but for Thailand leaders since they don't have a clue what is left or right need something to loosen the strings to freedom if they can believe in all their mumble jumble religious stuff and bubbles a Vaccine would be a miracle?

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2492598]I wasn't meaning to be a dick, and yes, basically nothing is going on right now to talk about. But I dunno, it seems like there might be something more useful than a failed thai visa scheme intended for not regular people is better -- like is there anything upcoming that might actually be useful? Thailand sure seems like its basically on lockdown for foreigners right now. Like, hell, especially for people there, what news is there on tourists coming back that we don't see on from the outside or has anyone got back and done the 14-day situation and intend to stay long (er) term? Are businesses failing hard yet? Especially I can see the south and islands economies getting trashed, but for many thais, they will see good and bad there, especially with how many foreigners own a lot of the tourist infrastructure.

Hell I mean if anything comes out of this visa situation good, maybe it will be them permanently extending the general thai tourist visa to 90 days without any extra work.[/QUOTE]That is a very excellent general response!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2493075]I agree, even if something comes out in the fall the second wave of people will be basically those like myself on Medicare. CDC has already been authorized to run the distribution in the States and put out notices to business like Walgreen to apply for the license and equip their facilities to be able to store the vaccine at a specific temperature. I have been in touch with my cousin who runs one of the Veteran Hospital in the West coast with updates mostly I want to know the results when they start their distribution.

For me stuck here in Thailand I seriously doubt they will have it available but private hospital like Bangkok / Pattaya might be able to obtain but I'm sure the price will be high. If this is the case I will only shell out the money if the Thai government clear all their hurdles so I can move freely which means leaving Thailand and returning without all the hoops that are require now.

Is the vaccine a cure of course not but for Thailand leaders since they don't have a clue what is left or right need something to loosen the strings to freedom if they can believe in all their mumble jumble religious stuff and bubbles a Vaccine would be a miracle?[/QUOTE]If you are "stuck" in Thailand as a tourist and not living there on a retirement visa, you may want to raise the issue with the American Embassy in Bangkok to see if Medicare coverage will allow some sort of program to get vaccines to US citizens there. My friend is married to a Thai woman and lives outside of Bangkok. He is concerned if he would be able to get any kind of vaccine. He is worried that the Thai system of discriminating against "farang" will require an outrageous payment of some kind.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493031]Yes, most of us on this forum are older, so I was assuming that we would be in the priority group to get the vaccines, when ever they are available. I am just being optimistic that we can look forward to vaccine availability here in the US in a few months. I can't estimate what the rest of the world is looking at, but I am sure the companies developing the vaccines will be racing with each other to get them approved and produced ASAP. The last folks getting their vaccine on the market may find themselves with a lot of inventory where ever they are in the world. Just hoping for the best and whistling Dixie until then![/QUOTE]The vaccine has to be stored in the right conditions and then injected by trained medical personnel so it's not as if 100 million Americans can all be vaccinated within a few weeks. Medical personnel get it first, then the highly vulnerable with medical conditions. I think it's going to be late 2021 before healthy old guys like you get the vaccine.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493208]If you are "stuck" in Thailand as a tourist and not living there on a retirement visa, you may want to raise the issue with the American Embassy in Bangkok to see if Medicare coverage will allow some sort of program to get vaccines to US citizens there. My friend is married to a Thai woman and lives outside of Bangkok. He is concerned if he would be able to get any kind of vaccine. He is worried that the Thai system of discriminating against "farang" will require an outrageous payment of some kind.[/QUOTE]I understand your concern just a personal opinion the USA Embassy couldn't give a flying f--k what we want they can't even stand up to Big Joke when his adminitration was trying to shake down the major Embassy for a cut of the Income Letters. Every government talk about " Global " that has to do only with Trade, if they really meant it they would set up a program for those on USA Medicare to be used here if they can do it for the military it can easily be done here.

Like your friend if Thailand recognizes any vaccine that will be the opening we all need to be able to start to travel normally. But if you are here uwill pay a price certainly if they have a law on the books just past last year that they can charge different meaning higher prices for Foreigers usning their medical facilities even government hospital you will have to pay. If lucky my guess it would be somewhere 5-10,000 baht at a private hospital whether you like the W. H. O. Or not they have already step in to try to prevent it from happening let cross our finger and hope?

You are correct about distribution and handling the CDC is already ahead of the game and put out the word to major pharmacy like Walgreens to met the storage requirement one of the possible vaccine that requires the lowest temperature for storage from what I read on City Health Departments have such equipment. Like your friend I'm married here and if the Thai government says you get the vaccine and they allow me to travel and return pre-covid I will pay. I've already contacted my Medicare plan to advise them of my situation if I did have to pay for the vaccine here would my supplement plan cover the cost haven't heard yet.

Hang in there that is all we can do?

[QUOTE=*****man;2493210]The vaccine has to be stored in the right conditions and then injected by trained medical personnel so it's not as if 100 million Americans can all be vaccinated within a few weeks. Medical personnel get it first, then the highly vulnerable with medical conditions. I think it's going to be late 2021 before healthy old guys like you get the vaccine.[/QUOTE]The J&J vaccine does not need to be refrigerated and is the third vaccine in the last stage trials, just six weeks behind the other two. The US government is paying up for all these trials and told the companies to start ramping up production in anticipation of approvals. So far, just a couple of reactions have paused the trials, but are expected to resume in a few days. The "bad reactions" may not be even related to the vaccine, but may have been pre-existing medical problems. The halt to the trials is precautionary, because the companies want to stop any future lawsuits as well. Heck, I am going to get all three if I can when they come out!

As for distribution, practically every pharmacy in the US will be giving out the shots. The US military and National Guard medical personnel will be plastering the entire population of the US with shots as well. The number of dosages of each vaccine is well over 300 million. That means which ever vaccine is approved first will have enough to hit the entire country population ASAP. Same goes with the other two vaccines in the pipeline right behind the "winner". The US is looking at nearly a BILLION shots to cover the US which has a population of 340 million. So don't worry, Trump does really know what he is doing!

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493305] As for distribution, practically every pharmacy in the US will be giving out the shots. The US military and National Guard medical personnel will be plastering the entire population of the US with shots as well. The number of dosages of each vaccine is well over 300 million. That means which ever vaccine is approved first will have enough to hit the entire country population ASAP[/QUOTE]Just for reference, the current estimate is that lower risk persons in the US may have to wait until 2022 for their vaccinations, while high(er) risk people may be able to get them early 2021. This is likely to change though when more is known about process and which vaccines are available and how they will be administered. But it looks like the fast track for approval is being set for multiple vaccines.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2493561]Just for reference, the current estimate is that lower risk persons in the US may have to wait until 2022 for their vaccinations, while high(er) risk people may be able to get them early 2021. This is likely to change though when more is known about process and which vaccines are available and how they will be administered. But it looks like the fast track for approval is being set for multiple vaccines.[/QUOTE]With old people the second priority (the first priority being first responders and medical personnel), us old fogies can look to vaccine availability in early 2021. The first priority folks will be pretty much vaccinated within weeks due to their proximity to the distribution points and necessity. Once at a hospital for example, it would take only days to get all the people working there and patients vaccinated. Same goes for first responders as well. Pfizer said today that with expedited clearances and approvals, they were looking at distribution before the end of the year in the US!

Hopefully Big Pharma will do well with all the mugs taking their shots. There is deep suspicion of such vaccines because they have been used for nefarious purposes in the past. I, for one, will be taking no shots as I do not want dangerous, unknown substances in my body. I follow the vaccine / Big Pharma debate on appropriate sites.

This is the LBFM General Reports section. Enjoy your colour revolution. Ain't no vaccine for that.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493737]With old people the second priority (the first priority being first responders and medical personnel), us old fogies can look to vaccine availability in early 2021. The first priority folks will be pretty much vaccinated within weeks due to their proximity to the distribution points and necessity. Once at a hospital for example, it would take only days to get all the people working there and patients vaccinated. Same goes for first responders as well. Pfizer said today that with expedited clearances and approvals, they were looking at distribution before the end of the year in the US![/QUOTE]We can only speculate so much personally I hope it happens by the end of the year although I'm here in Thailand. Sure there is certainly going to be even a bigger debate as to whether it is effective enough and that is where Thailand comes into the picture as to whether they are going to open their borders without having to play all their games? Is the effectiveless result will happen fast enough for them to let down all their barriers and open their borders for travel internationally pre-covid with just a certification you had gotten the vaccine?

Here is an article summarising the current protests and current attitudes to the current monarch: [URL]https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/thailands-king-wears-out-his-welcome?fbclid=IwAR0xcga5Q_hiwMWD0jPcQLZcnatsJjuRPkmY606brpfqptpRSYaVukl3qV0[/URL].

If you are interested in Thailand, you should read it as there is a lot of violence around the corner. The Thais have had enough and I imagine the farang will have a heavy toll to pay. The article seems very informed, much more so than LBFMs and those who idolise them.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2493813]We can only speculate so much personally I hope it happens by the end of the year although I'm here in Thailand. Sure there is certainly going to be even a bigger debate as to whether it is effective enough and that is where Thailand comes into the picture as to whether they are going to open their borders without having to play all their games? Is the effectiveless result will happen fast enough for them to let down all their barriers and open their borders for travel internationally pre-covid with just a certification you had gotten the vaccine?[/QUOTE] Difficult to say. If you look at the flu vaccine, its effectiveness is between 10 and 70 percent depending on the year. 30-50% is the norm. To get regulatory approval the covid-19 vaccine needs to be 50% and I doubt that level of effectiveness would be enough to convince the Thais to open their borders. But most sources seem to think the covid-19 vaccine will be more effective, maybe 90% or more, so that together with much lower infection rates may be enough.

[QUOTE=*****man;2493820]Difficult to say. If you look at the flu vaccine, its effectiveness is between 10 and 70 percent depending on the year. 30-50% is the norm. To get regulatory approval the covid-19 vaccine needs to be 50% and I doubt that level of effectiveness would be enough to convince the Thais to open their borders. But most sources seem to think the covid-19 vaccine will be more effective, maybe 90% or more, so that together with much lower infection rates may be enough.[/QUOTE]I agree, but we are talking about the Thais up to now what have we been discussing? The nonsense the idea's etc etc they are desperate trying to put up a front as you noted norm but desperate people will do desperate things and overlooking the % I wouldn't be surprise one bit?

At present there is a lot of dissent and internal pressure on the Thai Government to jump start the economy and therefore to open up the country. When the various vaccines (plural) begin to be distributed around the world these pressures to open up will be overwhelming. No one can say for sure what the Thai Government will do or how soon they will react. I have a hunch they will be slow to react and take their time. So be it. It is not like Thailand is the only country in the world with sexy, young girls to my liking. Thailand is still my 1st choice to travel to as soon as I receive the vaccine, but if the Thais still have restrictions in place when I am ready to travel I will go somewhere else and not think twice about it.

Like I have said in previous posts, Brazil is fully open now! As is the CR, Barbados, Zambia, Croatia, French Polynesia, and Ecuador to name a few. If I were 25, I would hop on a jet and be in Sao Paulo fucking sexy Latinas tomorrow. But I am not 25 and although I have a greater than 99.99% chance of surviving the Chinese Virus, I would not want to catch it and suffer through it, especially in a foreign country. A friend of mine recently underwent the virus. He complained of severe, debilitating headaches that seemed to never go away. But after 7 or 8 days of suffering the headaches went away and 12 days after contacting the virus he is 100% fine. But it was a harrowing experience. Something I would prefer to miss. 555.

So, I wait like most of us for the vaccine. But my point is that things will open up fast once vaccines (plural) become available. I hope Thailand chooses not to lag behind other viable girly nations, but that decision is up to them. Fortunately, I am not dependent on the policies of any one government, Thai, Philippines, Indonesian etc. So I will make my decision on where I go the moment I am cleared (vaccinated) for takeoff.

It will be a cold day in August in Thailand when the US embassy asks Medicare if they will reimburse American tourists or retirees for a Covid vaccine shot or the Thais would allow an introduction of 'some sort of (Medicare) program to get vaccines to US citizens there'.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2493208]If you are "stuck" in Thailand as a tourist and not living there on a retirement visa, you may want to raise the issue with the American Embassy in Bangkok to see if Medicare coverage will allow some sort of program to get vaccines to US citizens there. My friend is married to a Thai woman and lives outside of Bangkok. He is concerned if he would be able to get any kind of vaccine. He is worried that the Thai system of discriminating against "farang" will require an outrageous payment of some kind.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2494026]It will be a cold day in August in Thailand when the US embassy asks Medicare if they will reimburse American tourists or retirees for a Covid vaccine shot or the Thais would allow an introduction of 'some sort of (Medicare) program to get vaccines to US citizens there'.[/QUOTE]If we are of an age to qualify for Medicare and living/retired in Thailand with the pertinent visa, we are already required to have Thai-based health insurance. I assume most policy providers will get on board with subsidizing the cost of a Covid vaccine if not covering the cost of it 100% after one is approved and available. It would be in their interest to do so.

Pacific Cross added coverage for Covid to my approximately $140 USD per month in-patient (1,100,000 THB of coverage) and out-patient (40,000 THB of coverage) policy on the run between my renewals at no additional charge then or at my renewal date.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2493814]Here is an article summarising the current protests and current attitudes to the current monarch: [URL]https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/thailands-king-wears-out-his-welcome?fbclid=IwAR0xcga5Q_hiwMWD0jPcQLZcnatsJjuRPkmY606brpfqptpRSYaVukl3qV0[/URL].

If you are interested in Thailand, you should read it as there is a lot of violence around the corner. The Thais have had enough and I imagine the farang will have a heavy toll to pay. The article seems very informed, much more so than LBFMs and those who idolise them.[/QUOTE]Not sure where you're presently residing Pedro but if in Thailand I would caution against sharing anti monarchy sentiments online. Not wise.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2494037]If we are of an age to qualify for Medicare and living/retired in Thailand with the pertinent visa, we are already required to have Thai-based health insurance. I assume most policy providers will get on board with subsidizing the cost of a Covid vaccine if not covering the cost of it 100% after one is approved and available. It would be in their interest to do so.

Pacific Cross added coverage for Covid to my approximately $140 USD per month in-patient (1,100,000 THB of coverage) and out-patient (40,000 THB of coverage) policy on the run between my renewals at no additional charge then or at my renewal date.[/QUOTE]A correction? We aren't required as you noted for everyone on Medicare? Currently as far as I know it isn't required if you have a Retirement Extension Immigration O, which I have had for 15 years and it isn't required only Visa currently Immigration O-A!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2494076]A correction? We aren't required as you noted for everyone on Medicare? Currently as far as I know it isn't required if you have a Retirement Extension Immigration O, which I have had for 15 years and it isn't required only Visa currently Immigration O-A![/QUOTE]You're right, I was just thinking of USA citizens over the age of 65 where Medicare coverage for a Covid vaccine was in question who are also O-A Non Immigrant long stay/retirement visa holders.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2493814]Here is an article summarising the current protests and current attitudes to the current monarch: [URL]https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/thailands-king-wears-out-his-welcome?fbclid=IwAR0xcga5Q_hiwMWD0jPcQLZcnatsJjuRPkmY606brpfqptpRSYaVukl3qV0[/URL].

If you are interested in Thailand, you should read it as there is a lot of violence around the corner. The Thais have had enough and I imagine the farang will have a heavy toll to pay. The article seems very informed, much more so than LBFMs and those who idolise them.[/QUOTE]I've been reading those reports with great interest. I remember when insulting the king could get you in jail. Now there are protests by thousands of Thais against the monarchy. Things are changing. Whither Thailand? Whither our hobby in its most favored destination?

[QUOTE=Turgid;2494154]I've been reading those reports with great interest. I remember when insulting the king could get you in jail. Now there are protests by thousands of Thais against the monarchy. Things are changing. Whither Thailand? Whither our hobby in its most favored destination?[/QUOTE]There are contrary reports too, saying the demos are small and foreign led. I see Thailand as being in play to contain China. The King is not helping. I would expect farang to find themselves literally in the firing line as the economy tanks. All this nonsense talk of a vaccine, when none exist for flus and people dispensing polio shots have been shot. The new normal is to get some providers and do things low key. A lot of Thais, I'd say, would love to see the back of Pattaya, the LBFMs and their lovers. Thailand is overdue an eruption.

Is this money ever used to help the Thai people?

Thailand Has a good economy. I always wonder why all the money goes.

I am very aware of the rules of lèse-majesté in Thailand. I once almost got lynched because taxi drivers thought I had insulted the Royal Flowers in Chiang Mai when King Bhumibol the Great ruled. I tired to save two Belgian arrested at gun point for defacing a 50 baht note with his head on it. I know the drill backwards. I am also ware of this web site's long standing policy towards King Bhumibol the Great. I am also aware of how King Bhumibol the Great became king when the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces surrendered.

I never even dreamed of insulting King Bhumibol the Great or watching The King and I (banned in Thailand).

However, King Bhumibol the Great is dead. He lived mostly in Hua Hin. This bloke is shacked up in Germany with 1000 Hi soc Thai hookers. It is all over international media. I am not making any positive or negative comment. Just saying the balloon is going up and it is not going to be pleasant.

Thailand is the Land of Smiles. But Pol Pot always smiled. It is going to be nasty. I was chatting to some Pattaya hookers tonight, They have nothing. Such people are dangerous. Guys here want to get a shot of some untested vaccine. There is no vaccine against machettes.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2494067]Not sure where you're presently residing Pedro but if in Thailand I would caution against sharing anti monarchy sentiments online. Not wise.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2494264]I am also aware of how King Bhumibol the Great became king when the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces surrendered.[/QUOTE]Your awareness is flawed. The Japanese announced their surrender in August 1945 and the surrender agreement was signed on 2 September 1945. King Bhumibol became king when his brother died "in mysterious circumstances" on 9 June 1946. There's plenty of conflicting reading matter and conspiracy theories out there about these "Mysterious circumstances" but I've never seen any linking it to the Imperial Japanese occupation of (or alliance with, depending on viewpoint) Thailand during WW2.

Indeed neither of them were even in Thailand during WW2.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2494264]There is no vaccine against machettes.[/QUOTE]Machetes don't stop M16 rounds. Let us all hope it doesn't come to that this time.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2494264]I never even dreamed of insulting King Bhumibol the Great or watching The King and I (banned in Thailand)...[/QUOTE]The King and I might have been banned decades ago but not for the past several years. I have a great blu-ray disc of the 1956 musical version with Yul Brynner that includes Thai subtitles that I bought openly displayed on the shelf at a Thai owned home video store in Fortune Town mall at mrt Phra Ram 9. It is not censored or edited in any way from its original USA theatrical release. The girls love it. I must have watched it a half dozen times with different Thai girls here.

I understand there was some sensitivity about it in the past. But there is only one sequence in it that I could see being taken as insulting to the King's intelligence. A funny bit where, due to her superior English language skills, he dictates a letter to the English school teacher offering to send "two male elephants" to then President Lincoln to be released into the American wild so they can produce a herd of elephants to help him win the Civil War. She interrupts and tells him he might not really mean "two male elephants". He looks puzzled, dismisses her and walks away with "you fix up the details!"

On the surface that bit of comedy could be taken as insulting his intelligence, as though the King did not know it takes a male and a female to make a baby. Highly unlikely. But I think the author actually based the joke on a Thai language quirk that does not differentiate between male and female genders. For example, there is one word in Thai for girlfriend OR boyfriend ("fan"). And many times Thais refer to "she/her" when they really mean "he/him" and vice versa because their language does not generally differentiate in that way. There is a brief allusion to that language quirk earlier in the movie when the female English teacher is addressed a couple of times as "Sir."

I suppose the offence to the King could have been that Yul Brynner was not Thai. But it seems they have gotten over it as it is on the home video version at least.

Also, there are more recent live action (non Thai actor playing the King) and animated versions of The King and I that have played on Netflix Thailand off and on over the years.

Oh, one interesting side note about The King and I is the King's number one son in that story, the one Brynner's King hands the reigns of power to as he is dying and the new young King immediately begins to decree a more liberal demeanor with regard to royalty by the royal subjects is King Chulalongkorn, the King for whom a notable universitiy, hospital, etc in Bangkok are named.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2494154]I've been reading those reports with great interest. I remember when insulting the king could get you in jail. Now there are protests by thousands of Thais against the monarchy. Things are changing. Whither Thailand? Whither our hobby in its most favored destination?[/QUOTE]

While there are plenty of good reasons to protests, lets not be naive on why these protests are happening now and and who is fueling them...

First look at National Endowment for Democracy and other similar structures which have been created under Reagan to takeover the job from the CIA into destabilising other country but using democracy as an excuse to make it popular in the media.
https://williamblum.org/chapters/rogue-state/trojan-horse-the-national-endowment-for-democracy

Second look at how Mike Pompeo, former director of the CIA and current state secretary has been pressuring asian countries to take sides in the US vs China cold war.

Third look at the proximity of the thai protests with the HK protests in terms of methods, in terms of wording, and look at how close the leaders have been both online and in real life through meetings with US third parties medling.

So, finally we can discuss The King and I, and the opinion of LBFM movie buffs. This site never disappoints. Life has moved on since the Japanese surrendered (in Thailand, if not the Dutch east Indies and French Indo China). We also see posters up to speed on the see hina Containment game and others talking about AR15's / MI6's v machetes and bamboo spears. We all know when Thais fist fight, you should not join in. I'll be giving the AR15's, MI6's, machetes and bamboo spears a miss and thinking of those farangs who think a jab of a needle in Pattaya can allow them party on.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2494383]The King and I might have been banned decades ago but not for the past several years. I have a great blu-ray disc of the 1956 musical version with Yul Brynner that includes Thai subtitles that I bought openly displayed on the shelf at a Thai owned home video store in Fortune Town mall at mrt Phra Ram 9. It is not censored or edited in any way from its original USA theatrical release. The girls love it. I must have watched it a half dozen times with different Thai girls here..[/QUOTE]Good on you to keep the women happy with some good wholesome entertainment. Their tastes do tend to be simple, quite like my own. I miss Thermae, heaving with hookers as Maggie May plays.

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2494388]While there are plenty of good reasons to protests, lets not be naive on why these protests are happening now and and who is fueling them...

First look at National Endowment for Democracy and other similar structures which have been created under Reagan to takeover the job from the CIA into destabilising other country but using democracy as an excuse to make it popular in the media.
https://williamblum.org/chapters/rogue-state/trojan-horse-the-national-endowment-for-democracy

Second look at how Mike Pompeo, former director of the CIA and current state secretary has been pressuring asian countries to take sides in the US vs China cold war.

Third look at the proximity of the thai protests with the HK protests in terms of methods, in terms of wording, and look at how close the leaders have been both online and in real life through meetings with US third parties medling.[/QUOTE]It seems you're the naive one. Thailand has been a US proxy state since WW2. The current elite built up its position with American financial and military backing. So do you really think the CIA are going to waste time with student protests when they already have their assets embedded in the establishment?

Of course students are going to get sick of a corrupt elite brainwashing them with an absurd authoritarian ideology and trampling over their rights and freedoms. And it's not surprising they're going to look over to what happened in Hong Kong and try to learn from them. They call it the Milk Tea Alliance. Your belief that this must be down to "foreign meddling" is straight from the trick book of the Chinese Communist Party.

[QUOTE=*****man;2494432]It seems you're the naive one. Thailand has been a US proxy state since WW2. The current elite built up its position with American financial and military backing. So do you really think the CIA are going to waste time with student protests when they already have their assets embedded in the establishment?[/QUOTE]I'm really well aware of the ties between Thailand and the US for the past decades.

It doesn't change the orientation Thailand took in the more recent years and the fact it refused to side with the US against China but instead chose to embrace China as one of its most important partners.

[QUOTE=*****man;2494432]
Your belief that this must be down to "foreign meddling" is straight from the trick book of the Chinese Communist Party.[/QUOTE]Who cares about the trick book from CCP. You may dislike the CCP and yet open yourself to the idea that at the same time the USA has a specific agenda.
Its not like the US has been secret about this agenda.
The coalition Pompeo is trying to build in Asia against China is also public knowledge.
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/06/asia/pompeo-china-japan-asia-intl-hnk/index.html[/URL]

The financing of several Hong Kong groups through the national endowment for democracy is also public knowledge since the NED funding is documented through different votes as its itself funded by the american gov through votes / budgets.
The meetings between the american officials and various parties in HK have been also documented and proven by the american press.
And yes there have been ties with these activists in HK with Taiwan activists and Thailand activists.
If you wish to believe they are just a group of buddies who met on facebook/line by mistake and found common ground and suddenly decided to start mass protest, enjoy the cool story...

Again, opening yourself to the US interests in these events does not mean you believe the Chinese Communist Party to be the saviour of the world. I spend a lot of time in China too, not just thailand, and have a pretty good understanding of how things can be at times for the common people... so I don't need a reality check on that. That being said in a cold war you have 2 sides and both sides can be pretty narrow minded. Saying mccarthysm in the US has been excessive at times or the use of the CIA in various parts of the world did a lot of bad things doesn't mean you love Russia and fall for their propaganda. Its not all white or all black...

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2494441]And yes there have been ties with these activists in HK with Taiwan activists and Thailand activists.

You wish to believe they are nice kids whom added each other on facebook or line and there is no larger scale financing or agenda behing, more power to you.[/QUOTE]As I've known quite a lot of middle class HKers over the years, I was shocked to see them torching people. Somebody has got those nice folk to a situation where they torch people to death, I don't mind being John Rambo but even Rambo knows when to get out of town.

[QUOTE=ChuchoLoco;2495667]Has anyone broken up the long flight into 2 or 3 shorter legs with overnight layover? Would love to go but don't think I could handle the long flight.[/QUOTE]I used to enjoy laying over for a couple of nights in Amsterdam on my way to and from Thailand. I liked the Coffee shops and then doing the shop girls stoned on nederhash. I have not flown the trans European route in a long time, ultimately preferring the longer trans Pacific route, but I am sure that post pandemic USA. AMS- BKK will be available again. The shortest duration USA transpacific route is to either Manila or Hong Kong. Hong Kong now sucks and I will never lay over there again, but Manila is a great place to stop off for a few days on the way to BKK.

[QUOTE=ChuchoLoco;2495667]Has anyone broken up the long flight into 2 or 3 shorter legs with overnight layover? Would love to go but don't think I could handle the long flight.[/QUOTE]Moved response here from the Pattaya thread as the query is not Pattaya specific. I see Natty already had the same thoughts.

I think guys don't do overnight layovers on their way to Thailand because I find a short 2 or 3 day layover in another country like Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Taipei, etc. Would have more expensive flights. They also may have only 2 weeks vacation and want to spend every minute possible getting Thai pussy. None of us enjoy long flights. Why would we?

If I have a short layover of 1 or 3 hours I try looking for an extended layover of 6 or 8 hours and sleep for a few hours at an airport hotel. That way when I arrive in Thailand I'm ready to roll immediately.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2495851]If I have a short layover of 1 to 3 hours I try looking for an extended layover of 6 or 8 hours and sleep for a few hours at an airport hotel. That way when I arrive in Thailand I'm ready to roll immediately.[/QUOTE]This is a good strategy if you arrive in Thailand after sundown. But I prefer a shorter layover (no more than 3 hours) and an arrival just after sunrise. Landing at that hour always gives me a boost, no matter how long the journey or how little sleep I got along the way. I feel fine as I deal with immigration, collect my bags, clear customs, buy my SIM card, change money and find my driver. Maybe a stop on the way to Pattaya for a coffee or a Red Bull. Still feeling fine, I check into my quarters (because I'm not a Cheap Charlie and I pay for the extra night). At this point it's still only midday, which gives me time to go shopping and have a bite of lunch. About 1500 I usually start to feel sleepy, and take a two or three hour combat nap. I get up around 1800 ready for a night on the town. Not a late night. But a night where I'm rested enough to have fun (provided I don't drink too much).

Obviously there's no escaping jet lag. So the next morning will find me up earlier than I'd prefer. But I make the best of it by getting outside and walking to Casa Pascal for the terrific breakfast buffet, which goes a long way toward resetting my body clock.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2495746]The shortest duration USA transpacific route is to either Manila or Hong Kong. Hong Kong now sucks and I will never lay over there again, but Manila is a great place to stop off for a few days on the way to BKK.[/QUOTE]I would always spend 2 nights in Hong Kong on the way to BKK enabling me to be fresh upon BKK arrival. Last year I flew non-stop LA to Osaka, then to BKK. Osaka is a great stopover. I plan to stopover in Taipei next time. Not a fan of Tokyo. I would prefer to stop in Manila but it's hard to get there non-stop from the west coast. I prefer not to fly Philippine Air for a long flight. Natty, I'm guessing Seoul, Tokyo, Osaka, and Taipei are shorter transpacific flights from the west coast than HKG or Manila.

As with everything in life, there is a trade off between comfort and money.

Upgrading your seat from economy to premium economy may cost an extra 50%, but for me it is much more comfortable. I used to fly Korean Air, but they don't offer that class. For me, Cathay Pacific and Delta offer premium economy and affordable prices.

In years gone by, my long business trips were in business class. Felt as fresh upon arrival as I did before departure. I might spring for that sometime in the future. Cost is about 5 times that of economy.

Minimize your total travel time from home to BKK. For me, this means taking an airport shuttle or Uber to an airport 70 miles from home instead of the airport 25 miles from home. This way I can get 2 legs to BKK instead of 3. Saves about 3 hours total travel time for me. It also eliminates the chances of flight delays associated with a 3rd leg. My first ever personal trip to BKK was 3 legs and the first leg was delayed, which screwed my entire trip. Didn't get my luggage until day 3 in BKK.

For layovers longer than about 5 hours, you might find sleeping pods in your transfer airport. Longer than 8 hour layover might warrant a day room at your transfer airport hotel.

Upon arrival in BKK I’m exhausted. I check into my hotel but cant sleep. A quick piece of ass at a place like Doki Doki completes the journey and I sleep perfectly for about 10 hours.

[QUOTE=Allover;2496249]I would always spend 2 nights in Hong Kong on the way to BKK enabling me to be fresh upon BKK arrival. Last year I flew non-stop LA to Osaka, then to BKK. Osaka is a great stopover. I plan to stopover in Taipei next time. Not a fan of Tokyo. I would prefer to stop in Manila but it's hard to get there non-stop from the west coast. I prefer not to fly Philippine Air for a long flight. Natty, I'm guessing Seoul, Tokyo, Osaka, and Taipei are shorter transpacific flights from the west coast than HKG or Manila.[/QUOTE]I used to enjoy 2-night layovers in HKG too, but that was a long time ago when there used to be rockin' bars filled with hot Viet, Thai, Korean, and even Mongolian girls. HKG used to be great, but not anymore! I went back to HKG for the last 2 nights of my 2018 Fall Trip. The Wanchai bar scene was dismal. I did not see 1 doable girl. I arrived at the bar scene on a prime Friday night in Early November and every single FL girl I saw was friendly, fat, over 35 way past her prime, and from the PI. Now, I had just arrived in HKG after 10 nights in MNL and 5 nights in Macau shagging hot, young, Burgos Bar girls in MNL and supermodel Chinese and Korean girls in Macau, so the difference I saw in Wanchai was truly shocking. 555.

The HKG bar scene was so bad that around 1:30 am I gave up, grabbed some late night dinner, and went back to my hotel room empty handed. It was the only time that happened on my entire 75-day trip. The next night, the final night of the trip, I gave up on the bar scene and I booked an attractive Taiwanese [URL]141.com[/URL] hotel reservation girl for 1700 HK dollars. The girl was friendly and session was good, but was not completely satisfied. Note: this all occurred before the "disturbances" and later the Mainland crackdown. I don't think HKG will ever recover and I know I will never lay over there again, but I will always remember the good times and the fabulous girls I had there prior to 2011!

I have never laid over in Seoul, Tokyo, Osaka, or Taipei. From what I have heard over the year, s it can be very challenging to monger in Seoul and please correct me if I am wrong, but unless you are fluent in Japanese or have a Japanese friend along to take you around, you will never get into the best bordellos and clubs or have a chance to meet the top girls. Taipei sounds interesting, however. I have never been there, so I might go one day to find out what's what. If you go, let me know if you liked the place.

And then there is Macau. I really like Macau. It is or was, pre-pandemic, ridiculously expensive, but some of the top sauna girls were nothing short of spectacular and the sex was most times right on too. I used to enter SE Asia through HKG, spend 2 or 3 nights there, and then take the ferry to Macau for 5 nights before heading to Thailand or the PI. What a great way to start or end a trip. I hope all the saunas reopen after the Pandemic.

My plan for my next big trip, to make up for all of 2020, will be to fly into MNL (spend 10 days), then Macau (5 nights), LOS (BKK 6 weeks / Pattaya 2 weeks), a visa run to Phnom (5 or 6 nights) and then finish up in Jakarta for 3 weeks. Now all this is contingent upon the venues in each of these destinations re-opening and being viable again by the time I get vaccinated and am ready to fly. It may turn out only Thailand is back up and running or Thailand and Cambodia only. It may turn out Thailand remains closed in which case I am going to Brazil. Fuck it! We all will just have to wait for the vaccine and then what's happening.

NB.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2496418]As with everything in life, there is a trade off between comfort and money.

Upgrading your seat from economy to premium economy may cost an extra 50%, but for me it is much more comfortable. I used to fly Korean Air, but they don't offer that class. For me, Cathay Pacific and Delta offer premium economy and affordable prices.

In years gone by, my long business trips were in business class. Felt as fresh upon arrival as I did before departure. I might spring for that sometime in the future. Cost is about 5 times that of economy.

Minimize your total travel time from home to BKK. For me, this means taking an airport shuttle or Uber to an airport 70 miles from home instead of the airport 25 miles from home. This way I can get 2 legs to BKK instead of 3. Saves about 3 hours total travel time for me. It also eliminates the chances of flight delays associated with a 3rd leg. My first ever personal trip to BKK was 3 legs and the first leg was delayed, which screwed my entire trip. Didn't get my luggage until day 3 in BKK.

For layovers longer than about 5 hours, you might find sleeping pods in your transfer airport. Longer than 8 hour layover might warrant a day room at your transfer airport hotel.

Upon arrival in BKK Im exhausted. I check into my hotel but cant sleep. A quick piece of ass at a place like Doki Doki completes the journey and I sleep perfectly for about 10 hours.[/QUOTE]Extra legroom or premium economy is the way to go. United offers these seats as well as Delta and Cathay Pacific. I like Delta, especially on flights to MNL. United seems better for flights to BKK, Singapore or CGK. The problem with Delta is many of their trans-pacific flights are on Korean air and as you pointed out, there is no extra legroom on Korean Air, although many times I luck out with with an empty middle seat.

I also recommend getting an Ambien prescription from your doctor before the flight. I take 1 Ambien 10 MG pill and wash it down with a bloody Mary after dinner service with about 8 hours remaining on the flight. Twenty minutes later I am asleep for the next 5 hours.

Usually my flights arrive in MNL or BKK around 10/10:30 pm and although I am tired, I am not sleepy. Swampy or MNL Immigration, taxi, check in to my hotel room, take a shit, shave, shower, change of clothes and I am ready for action. Local time is a little after midnight. I Find a girl, we get it on, girl leaves around 2:30 am. I take another Ambien, watch TV, and I am back asleep in La LA land in 20 minutes. I wake up, it is 7:30 am to 8 am, Sun is out, no jet lag, and I am ready for the day. I text one of my regulars. Tell her I am in town. Confirm our reunion for the evening. My only issue is can I refrain from going to an oily in the afternoon or not.

I hear what you are saying a concerning hub airports, but for me living in South Florida, I detest Miami International Airport. They treat travelers like dog shit, so I prefer departing from FLL or PBI. I might gain 90 minutes on the longer flight duration, but I get it back with less travel time to the airport and a better experience in the airport once I get there regarding airline check in and airport security. To each his own, I guess.

Yes, I totally agree with you about Hong Kong and Wanchai. I have only been twice on layovers but the hotels and even AIR is quite expensive. Plus the P4 P girls are not all that great. I had a miserable experience with a Mongolian girl partially out of late night desperation. Met her in a popular bar but can't remember the name.

On one trip, I spent about $80 for a walk up broom closet but it was next to the ferry to Macau where I went the following day. Macau is expensive too but I did find a modern and hip type hotel for a reasonable Price under $100. Don't think they allowed guests but that was fine because the spas are so amazing there. I found out later that many of the spas it's possible to stay over as they have some dorm type rooms or sleep on the BarcaLounger. But, wow!, the ladies there are fantastic. I went to Familia Nobre but several other choices as well. Unfortunately, much of old Macao has been leveled and much of the island resembles a water bound Vegas with expensive hotels and casinos catering to the Chinese. There is a very small old section of Macau but Nothing to see culturally or of much historic significance except the old facade of St. Paul church.

I usually stop in Taipei from west coast of US via Eva Air but connections are good so carry on direct to Bangkok. I also generally travel to SEAsia in late December and the weather is always foggy and rainy in Taipei that time of year but would still like to check it out though there is no real club or bar scene like BKK or so I have been informed.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2496340]That French lady caught Covid from interacting with infected gym equipment in Pooket.[/QUOTE]French lady goes to Thailand. She satisfies the quarantine period and is now symptom free. Then she goes to a gym and catches COVID. Thailand's population is 70 million people and she is one of 135 active cases in all of Thailand. Pretty unlucky for her. If my rough math is correct without a calculator it's 500,000:1 odds she catches COVID.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2496808]French lady goes to Thailand. She satisfies the quarantine period and is now symptom free. Then she goes to a gym and catches COVID. Thailand's population is 70 million people and she is one of 135 active cases in all of Thailand. Pretty unlucky for her. If my rough math is correct without a calculator it's 500,000:1 odds she catches COVID.[/QUOTE]The rumour is that she's actually a Thai woman married to a French man but arrived on her French passport, which is why they're referring to her as a French woman.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2496808]French lady goes to Thailand. She satisfies the quarantine period and is now symptom free. Then she goes to a gym and catches COVID. Thailand's population is 70 million people and she is one of 135 active cases in all of Thailand. Pretty unlucky for her. If my rough math is correct without a calculator it's 500,000:1 odds she catches COVID.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. Interesting, nice catch!

Either that or as another BM noted. Maybe not all Thai covid case numbers are what they seem.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2495851]Moved response here from the Pattaya thread as the query is not Pattaya specific. I see Natty already had the same thoughts.

I think guys don't do overnight layovers on their way to Thailand because I find a short 2 or 3 day layover in another country like Germany, Japan, Hong Kong, Taipei, etc. Would have more expensive flights. They also may have only 2 weeks vacation and want to spend every minute possible getting Thai pussy. None of us enjoy long flights. Why would we?

If I have a short layover of 1 or 3 hours I try looking for an extended layover of 6 or 8 hours and sleep for a few hours at an airport hotel. That way when I arrive in Thailand I'm ready to roll immediately.[/QUOTE]Lots of seasoned travellers with excellent advices.

One last question. Anyone ever go to Thailand from Istanbul? I could handle a nonstop from Chicago to Istanbul with some meds, no diapers hopefully and then fly to Thailand assuming Istanbul is about halfway.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=ChuchoLoco;2496961]One last question. Anyone ever go to Thailand from Istanbul? I could handle a nonstop from Chicago to Istanbul with some meds, no diapers hopefully and then fly to Thailand assuming Istanbul is about halfway.[/QUOTE]I was in Istanbul a long, long time ago. It is very a interesting city from a cultural & culinary perspective and a good layover candidate for that reason, but I very much doubt the girly scene in Istanbul today has much to write home about.

Turkish Air can hook you right up: ORD. IST - BKK. They have just what you are looking for and currently at bargain prices on relatively short durations.

[QUOTE=ChuchoLoco;2496961]Lots of seasoned travellers with excellent advices.

One last question. Anyone ever go to Thailand from Istanbul? I could handle a nonstop from Chicago to Istanbul with some meds, no diapers hopefully and then fly to Thailand assuming Istanbul is about halfway.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]There are flights with one stop in Qatar. Cost now is around $850 RT. Total time 13 hours and so, e minutes including layover. At least there is an alternative but really not saving a whole lot of hours but it may work for me. Chicago to Istanbul is about 9 hours. Got to check price. Probably will end up double of a cheap Chicago to Bannon.

Thanks again everyone. I'll probably end up in Colombia for now and when I visit family in eastern Europe, I have an option to get to Thailand.

[QUOTE=ChuchoLoco;2496961]One last question. Anyone ever go to Thailand from Istanbul? I could handle a nonstop from Chicago to Istanbul with some meds, no diapers hopefully and then fly to Thailand assuming Istanbul is about halfway.[/QUOTE]I've done Singapore to Istanbul which was pretty easy. If you have a star alliance gold card then you can use the huge lounge at Istanbul airport, which is really nice. Turkish airlines fly to lots of places, so getting connections through there is pretty easy. Not too bad of a place to have a couple of days stop over, all depends on how much time you have.

Flying East. West always seems to be the best with regards to minimising jetlag for me, no sure about others, so via Istanbul may make jetlag worse. Then again, if you arrive sometime in the afternoon and head straight out then jetlag won't be an issue.

Whn are you planning to go to BKK, at the moment it's effectively closed for tourist and is likely to sty that way for some time.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2496663]

I usually stop in Taipei from west coast of US via Eva Air but connections are good so carry on direct to Bangkok. I also generally travel to SEAsia in late December and the weather is always foggy and rainy in Taipei that time of year but would still like to check it out though there is no real club or bar scene like BKK or so I have been informed.[/QUOTE]Taipei is a must see as it is mini version of China. I like the food in night markets and seafood restaurants. There are plenty of expat domestic workers who hang around central station on sundays. I hooked up with a girl from Indonesia. There are lots of things to see and places to visit. Transportation infrastructure is very good. Unlike China there is not much prostitution out in the open. There are local clubs and bars but on a westerner point view hard to mingle unless you have a local friend.

I like Eva Air. Efficient clean and connections from taipei to other places are easy. Very good prices as well. Unlike Cathay Pacific planes are pretty new.

Thought I would throw my information in as well. I have been flying Cathay almost exclusively for the last 25 or so trips. Mostly I have managed to fly business using AA miles, asia miles, or points from citi or chase. I have also done the purchase AA miles to use them for cathay redemption which works out to RT business for a little over $2 k USD, NYC. BKK.

I also agree you should minimize connections as much as possible. I take the train, sometimes amtrak to LIRR to Airtrain to JFK just to avoid a connection and it's worth it to fly direct JFK-HKG even if it's costing me extra. Also key is to have some type of lounge access whether due to status or flight class or something like priority pass from a credit card. Having a more relaxed place to be before a flight or being able to shower when arriving is the perfect setup to being ready to go on arrival.

Personally I actually like the 15 hour flight compared to a flight of 6+. The reason for it is that I know I have 15 hours of peace without any news or internet. I can focus on a bad movie or a good book and both are rewarding when you can't get distracted by your phone. It of course helps that cathay service is great. My personal recipe for handling jetlag and maximizing energy for the girls. 1. Eat on schedule even if you aren't hungry. 2. stay hydrated and try to sleep as much as possible on the flight and change into pajamas before the flight even takes off. 3. Drugs, ambien for sleep and strong coffee in the mornings.

I usually then do a layover in Macau mostly due to the hotels being better and more affordable and the girl scene so easy with the spas, albeit expensive. Though sometimes while transitioning through HKG I have enjoyed the affordability of 141's. Food is also great and within the central neighborhood between the ferry and airport express there are good restaurants and 141's available.

I have also done stopovers in Tokyo which are great as well but I used the paradise soapy primarily. There is lots else to explore P4 P scene wise in Tokyo but for simple ease of access for non-japanese paradise is the way to go.

I did a stopover last year in UAE, but was really more of a stop for 5 nights. I flew in and out of Abu Dhabi, but rented a car and went to Dubai for first 4 nights. Driving was easy and car was cheap. Dubai wouldn't be a bad spot to stopover on another trip. Hotels were affordable, food a bit pricey, and girls somewhere in the middle between LOS and Macau but with more variety to try.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2496418]As with everything in life, there is a trade off between comfort and money.

Upgrading your seat from economy to premium economy may cost an extra 50%, but for me it is much more comfortable. I used to fly Korean Air, but they don't offer that class. For me, Cathay Pacific and Delta offer premium economy and affordable prices.

In years gone by, my long business trips were in business class. Felt as fresh upon arrival as I did before departure. I might spring for that sometime in the future. Cost is about 5 times that of economy.

Minimize your total travel time from home to BKK. For me, this means taking an airport shuttle or Uber to an airport 70 miles from home instead of the airport 25 miles from home. This way I can get 2 legs to BKK instead of 3. Saves about 3 hours total travel time for me. It also eliminates the chances of flight delays associated with a 3rd leg. My first ever personal trip to BKK was 3 legs and the first leg was delayed, which screwed my entire trip. Didn't get my luggage until day 3 in BKK.

For layovers longer than about 5 hours, you might find sleeping pods in your transfer airport. Longer than 8 hour layover might warrant a day room at your transfer airport hotel.

Upon arrival in BKK Im exhausted. I check into my hotel but cant sleep. A quick piece of ass at a place like Doki Doki completes the journey and I sleep perfectly for about 10 hours.[/QUOTE]

Has anyone here taken a post-COVID international flight? Just wondering if there is still full meal service and beverages? If so, does that mean that whenever you have any sort of food or drink in your hand you do not need to wear a facemask? If so, I'll just be holding a bottled water in my hand the entire time. You're supposed to drink something every 10 minutes anyways to limit your chances on getting COVID.

Also, what constitutes a face mask? Does a face shield or neck gaiter qualify as a mask?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2497459]Has anyone here taken a post-COVID international flight? Just wondering if there is still full meal service and beverages? If so, does that mean that whenever you have any sort of food or drink in your hand you do not need to wear a facemask? If so, I'll just be holding a bottled water in my hand the entire time. You're supposed to drink something every 10 minutes anyways to limit your chances on getting COVID.

Also, what constitutes a face mask? Does a face shield or neck gaiter qualify as a mask?[/QUOTE]I just returned from a round trip on Delta to the USA. Delta was less than 10% full on every segment. I had an entire 9 person row to myself, going and returning. Jakarta to Seoul to Detroit.

Full food and beverage service provided.

I even scored an inexpensive Skymiles ticket.

Either facemask was acceptable. TSA was friendly!

Bule2004.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2497459]Has anyone here taken a post-COVID international flight? Just wondering if there is still full meal service and beverages? If so, does that mean that whenever you have any sort of food or drink in your hand you do not need to wear a facemask? If so, I'll just be holding a bottled water in my hand the entire time. You're supposed to drink something every 10 minutes anyways to limit your chances on getting COVID.

Also, what constitutes a face mask? Does a face shield or neck gaiter qualify as a mask?[/QUOTE]Not sure if it made the news here, but I will tell you that the airlines do not take the mask issue lightly. There have been more than a few pax removed for not following the rules, and if you put up a fuss, it just increases the odds you will be off loaded. I am not talking about fairness, or if it is necessary, I am just saying those are the policies and you are not required to follow them, but if you don't follow to the satisfaction of the crew you WILL be taken off the flight. It is all about making everyone else onboard feel safe, it is not about your comfort I will guarantee you!

Also, you won't have a bottle of water in your hand the entire time, because you are not allowed to pass security with a bottle of water in your carry on. If you fall asleep with the mask on, they will wake you and ask that you put a mask on, if you get up to go to the toilet, you will need to have your mask on. Do as you please, but you are not the one making the rules in this case.

BTW, I just returned from 4 months in the USA.

Having accelerated China's punishment before elections he now takes aim at Thailand.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-suspends-duty-free-access-022212941.html[/URL]

How is this going to impact US mongers'relations with personnel in their favorite destination?

[QUOTE=Turgid;2498417]Having accelerated China's punishment before elections he now takes aim at Thailand.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-suspends-duty-free-access-022212941.html[/URL]

How is this going to impact US mongers'relations with personnel in their favorite destination?[/QUOTE]None. I visited China several time in the last few years. The trade war had no effect on my abilities to get Chinese ladies to spread their legs. I even have a girlfriend who is a party member.

The Condo Association is trying to push a program where anyone who buys a condo worth 10 million baht receives residency status in Thailand. I'm sure most of you guys are richer than I am and can afford the $321k US price tag to get to go to Thailand.

I'm trying to understand these proposals. Rich people don't have COVID I guess.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2498417]Having accelerated China's punishment before elections he now takes aim at Thailand.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-suspends-duty-free-access-022212941.html[/URL]

How is this going to impact US mongers'relations with personnel in their favorite destination?[/QUOTE]It isn't going to have any large affect since Thailand had already made it choice as to the side they want to support although haven't come out in public to say it but their action surely has for some time! Personally living here I've been in support of this move for sometime and has even written to the trade commission as to why. Take Trump out of the conversation it is something that should have been done years ago and the delay of 2 plus years something they learn from China and the art of war. One only has to go to a place like Food land look on the shelves and see why they should have been on the list years ago plus even before the trade war China had already made arrangement with a number of large Thai companies to circumvent the USA Action by shipping products into Thailand then package it under a Thai company to get around the tariff going into the USA.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2498690]The Condo Association is trying to push a program where anyone who buys a condo worth 10 million baht receives residency status in Thailand.[/QUOTE]Which at present means that someone outside Thailand can queue up for repatriation flights and pay for quarantine based on buying a new condo sight unseen for $300 k+. Of course the condo association will only want this to apply to new-build, so the buyer will have to wait for the development to be completed (if it ever is) to get in.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2498690]I'm trying to understand these proposals.[/QUOTE]Another translation would be "we have got no buyers, we want a bail-out".

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2498841]the condo association will only want this to apply to new-build, so the buyer will have to wait for the development to be completed (if it ever is) to get in.[/QUOTE]Lots of newly built condos sitting empty now so there will be no wait. I almost bought one of these condos 4+ years ago that said something like 20 years residence Visa if you buy the new condo. At that time the condo in Jomtien was only about 4 million baht but it was way too small for me. I recall that it was priced about 1 million baht above market value.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2499022]Lots of newly built condos sitting empty now so there will be no wait. I almost bought one of these condos 4+ years ago that said something like 20 years residence Visa if you buy the new condo. At that time the condo in Jomtien was only about 4 million baht but it was way too small for me. I recall that it was priced about 1 million baht above market value.[/QUOTE]I should have said "off plan". A lot of the empty newly built units that sensible people might live in (so not any of the Lumpini development 25-28 sqm boxes) are actually being resold by the developers on behalf of the speculators who bought off plan (for a chunky commission on the resale). These speculators are largely from a large, populous country to the north, the units aren't under foreign quota and dodgy Thai nominee companies were used to buy them.

Understand that most developments here don't even break ground until they have sold 50-70%.

As to a 20 year residence that can only be sales puff. Residence status is permanent in Thailand (and difficult to get). Maybe they were offering the top level Thai Elite (4 times 5 years for 2 mil) as the sweetener?

Here is links to a danish story (there are plenty in English but you should learn a second language [URL]https://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/livsstil/porno-protester-i-thailand/8352884[/URL]) telling us Pornhub, one of Thailand's most popular sites, is blocked.

Please note on the Danish site there are women protesting about the ban. Why are Thai women protesting against Pornhub being banned?

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2499194]Here is links to a danish story (there are plenty in English but you should learn a second language [URL]https://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/livsstil/porno-protester-i-thailand/8352884[/URL]) telling us Pornhub, one of Thailand's most popular sites, is blocked.

Please note on the Danish site there are women protesting about the ban. Why are Thai women protesting against Pornhub being banned?[/QUOTE]Get a VPN like SurfEasy and you can watch PH from anywhere.

[URL]https://www.surfeasy.com/us/en/[/URL]

It seems the Thai king is running out of Bavarian road and he might be asked to bugger back home to Nana Plaza. It seems the colour coded revolution cannot be too far away. God knows what is happening in the shadows but I fear a big blow up is on the way between the red and yellow shirts. It makes a change from EPL football.

[QUOTE=JavaMan;2499957]USD dropping like a rock vs the Baht. It dipped under 31 baht yesterday. It's currently at 30.5342 baht and dropping. Per [URL]XE.com[/URL], the lowest it's been was 29.28 baht in April 2013.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turgid;2499981]US elections fiasco is shrinking the dollar worldwide.[/QUOTE]Since the topic is not Pattaya specific I am replying here.

It's not just the USD. The Thai baht continues to rise against other countries.

[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/251d8aea-6939-4166-afe6-2df0176e0f8f[/URL]

The king's money: Thailand divided over the $40 bn question.

The role and wealth of the Germany-based king is under unprecedented scrutiny amid national protests.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2498417]Having accelerated China's punishment before elections he now takes aim at Thailand.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-suspends-duty-free-access-022212941.html[/URL]

How is this going to impact US mongers'relations with personnel in their favorite destination?[/QUOTE]My suspicion is that IF it actually goes into effect, it will be reversed in less than a month or so.

I hope everyone who has an interest has lots of popcorn, the next 60-90 days will be quite the show I expect.

The Chinese tourists are expected to spend 400 k in their 1 month stay in Thailand. I'm not too impressed if they are not including the 14 day quarantine in the 1 month stay because that's about how much I used to spend as a weekend millionaire tourist before. Now if they are spending 400 k baht in 16 days then I'm impressed. That would work out to 25k baht per day. At 500 baht per Beach Road FL in Pattaya that's 50 sessions per day! That would be 8 gogo girls per day at 3k each. I only maxed out at 4 gogo girls at the same time, 8000 baht bar tab at Sapphire, and a couple of Kinnaree sessions during the day. These Chinese are making me look like chump change.

This is so ironic that the Chinese have become the rich tourists Thailand is hoping to revive their economy. All I ever heard in my years of living in Thailand are how cheap the Chinese from China are and how they don't spend anything.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2500443]The Chinese tourists are expected to spend 400 k in their 1 month stay in Thailand. I'm not too impressed if they are not including the 14 day quarantine in the 1 month stay because that's about how much I used to spend as a weekend millionaire tourist before. Now if they are spending 400 k baht in 16 days then I'm impressed. That would work out to 25k baht per day. At 500 baht per Beach Road FL in Pattaya that's 50 sessions per day! That would be 8 gogo girls per day at 3k each. I only maxed out at 4 gogo girls at the same time, 8000 baht bar tab at Sapphire, and a couple of Kinnaree sessions during the day. These Chinese are making me look like chump change.

This is so ironic that the Chinese have become the rich tourists Thailand is hoping to revive their economy. All I ever heard in my years of living in Thailand are how cheap the Chinese from China are and how they don't spend anything.[/QUOTE]My last trip to Thailand was 32 days and total expenses were about 320,000 baht, which included everything. There was absolutely nothing I wanted that I didn't get. Spending an extra 80,000 baht would not have increased my enjoyment. I have simple tastes. I’m not the target tourist. But, if it was required to spend 400,000 baht to gain entry, I would do it.

In February I met a Chinese business owner who rented a beautiful villa for his wife, young daughter, and babysitter. He also rented a beachfront room in a fancy resort so he had a place to escape family and bring as many as 5 bar girls for evening recreation while the family stayed at the villa. Everything first class. I'm sure that he spent over 2,000,000 baht per month for the family and babysitter. He is the target tourist.

Two of my non-P4P Thai girlfriends worked in fancy hotels and resorts (4,000 to 8,000 baht per night places). Both of them commented that their Chinese customers were the big spenders. These are target tourists.

I also see a good number of Chinese who do bus tours and stay in simple hotels. I doubt those people spend much money. Clearly not the target tourists.

Chinese tour / Triad gangs control the Chinese tour buses, bring them into Chinese shops etc.

All countries have to adopt a tourist model. The USA has cheap shopping, Disneyland stuff, rock / Hollywood tours, Las Vegas and so on. Different strokes for different folks.

Bhutan has two: very rich folk like Liz Taylor and Queen Elizabeth (who spends zilch and does not monger), and poor NGO volunteers. Next to no one else. Nepal has Everest "climbers" and riff raff.

Thailand has beaches, food, lots of shopping. I still use watches I bought thee in the last century.

You are saying they should ditch that so a handful of rich Chinese can walk Pattaya and Nana Plaza on their own, and that their Chinese women can have entire shopping malls all to themselves. One thing then is for sure. We will have plenty more love struck clowns writing here about the love of their life they left behind in an Isaan knocking shop.

On the upside, there should be a great rice harvest this year, with all the extra hands returning from the brothels.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2500478]My last trip to Thailand was 32 days and total expenses were about 320,000 baht, which included everything. There was absolutely nothing I wanted that I didn't get. Spending an extra 80,000 baht would not have increased my enjoyment. I have simple tastes. Im not the target tourist. But, if it was required to spend 400,000 baht to gain entry, I would do it.

In February I met a Chinese business owner who rented a beautiful villa for his wife, young daughter, and babysitter. He also rented a beachfront room in a fancy resort so he had a place to escape family and bring as many as 5 bar girls for evening recreation while the family stayed at the villa. Everything first class. I'm sure that he spent over 2,000,000 baht per month for the family and babysitter. He is the target tourist.

Two of my non-P4P Thai girlfriends worked in fancy hotels and resorts (4,000 to 8,000 baht per night places). Both of them commented that their Chinese customers were the big spenders. These are target tourists.

I also see a good number of Chinese who do bus tours and stay in simple hotels. I doubt those people spend much money. Clearly not the target tourists.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=BananaBoi;2500443]This is so ironic that the Chinese have become the rich tourists Thailand is hoping to revive their economy. All I ever heard in my years of living in Thailand are how cheap the Chinese from China are and how they don't spend anything.[/QUOTE]

What would Thailand be like if the King was forced to divest half his wealth with 20 b going to his citizens / subjects?. He would still be one of the richest men in the world and perhaps then would enjoy a certain amount of respect in his country. Just saying.

There are 70 mm Thais so do the math.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2500259][URL]https://www.ft.com/content/251d8aea-6939-4166-afe6-2df0176e0f8f[/URL]

The king's money: Thailand divided over the $40 bn question.

The role and wealth of the Germany-based king is under unprecedented scrutiny amid national protests.[/QUOTE]

Tripadvisor takes action regarding Thai hotel responsible for jailing American who posted harsh review of the hotel. [URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/thai-hotel-jailed-american-gets-153324553.html[/URL].

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2500610]What would Thailand be like if the King was forced to divest half his wealth with 20 b going to his citizens / subjects?. He would still be one of the richest men in the world and perhaps then would enjoy a certain amount of respect in his country. Just saying.

There are 70 mm Thais so do the math.[/QUOTE]Thailand wouldn't be any different. $20 be spread to every Thai would be $285 each. Absolutely nothing. His wealth would be held in property and other assets, not just cash in the bank.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2501785]Tripadvisor takes action regarding Thai hotel responsible for jailing American who posted harsh review of the hotel. [URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/thai-hotel-jailed-american-gets-153324553.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]Good for you Tripadvisor. While this guy's online rant was hard to take for any establishment the way to deal with him was either ignoring him or simply explaining their side of the story. Bad reviews whether true or not are part of doing business nowadays. Using the police and locking him up is sadly just one more nail in the coffin in Thailand losing its Land Of Smiles appeal which charmed and enchanted us when we first arrived.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfF3CGVwrs4[/URL]

60 Minutes have a spicy piece on the Thai King, his live-in mistress and 4 legged the poodle he appointed to head up the Thai air force.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2500610]What would Thailand be like if the King was forced to divest half his wealth with 20 b going to his citizens / subjects?. He would still be one of the richest men in the world and perhaps then would enjoy a certain amount of respect in his country. Just saying.

There are 70 mm Thais so do the math.[/QUOTE]Despite all his moolah the king has borrowings from city of London investment funds and banks, in the millions for investments somewhere, which is surprising. Another greedy thai billionaire which owns 50% of everything thai and promotes a feudal system which keeps Thais poor.

[QUOTE=Flak3;2503131]$100,000 medical insurance, 14 day quarantine, and proof of 500,000 baht in assets during the last 6 months to apply. If approved, before your flight you'll need a PCR Test.

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/johannaread/2020/11/12/new-thailand-tourist-visa-you-can-now-spend-60-days-in-paradise/?sh=6d561300369a[/URL][/QUOTE]Forbes is an American publication so it wants to give hope to Americans. Let's face it, Americans aren't getting in to Thailand. I am now predicting 2023, if that. Key to article is that people from any country can APPLY. Reality is China only for the foreseeable future. I have yet to read any Thai publication that gives any glimmer of hope that US citizens are even on the radar, with good reason.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2503228]Forbes is an American publication so it wants to give hope to Americans. Let's face it, Americans aren't getting in to Thailand. I am now predicting 2023, if that. Key to article is that people from any country can APPLY. Reality is China only for the foreseeable future. I have yet to read any Thai publication that gives any glimmer of hope that US citizens are even on the radar, with good reason.[/QUOTE]Thai embassies and most of the travel websites have the same story. Forbes was the easiest to read and understand. They left out the prison like quarantine rules though.

Diplomats, business visa, retirement visa, and married to Thais are being allowed back into Thailand from the US. So why would the Thai government stop regular American tourists from joining them with all the hoops (safety precautions) people have to jump through.

It's good business. Maximize profit and minimize risk. 15 k baht in Covid testing. 100 k to 200 k baht for hotels. And each person volunteers to be locked up, checked twice per day, and monitored on their cell phones for 15 days. And if they get sick, they have a minimum 500 k baht in the bank plus a $100 k USD insurance policy.

Not for your casual traveler but die hard mongers Thailand is open for your money.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2503228] Let's face it, Americans aren't getting into Thailand. I am now predicting 2023, if that. Key to article is that people from any country can APPLY.[/QUOTE]BB, That is a rather dark forecast. While I concede that the Thai Government might choose to keep Thailand in lockdown mode, I think there is much higher degree of probability that they will allow certified vaccinated North Americans, Australians, and Europeans in dropping the 14 day quarantine and other prohibitive restrictions. I could be wrong, but as I keep saying, There are plenty of extremely viable alternatives, it will be Thailand's loss if they act against their own interests as other Asian countries will most definitely open for certified vaccinated travelers and add to the growing list of some very nice countries that are already open (no quarantine).

BTW, there are some great pay later / free cancellation BKK hotel deals available for March, April, May. For example, I saw the JW Marriott for $35/ night, the Sofitel Sukhumvit for $60/ night, and the Grand Hyatt for $60/ night. Normally I am not a big fan of these hotels, but those rates are real deals.

I wouldn't bet the farm on Thailand opening up with just a vaccination cert no matter where you originate from.

I get the buzz around vaccines but this country is so paranoid of even a single infection it's hard to know if even they will be sufficient to change the mindset here.

So you get vaccinated, Moderna 95% effective Pfizer 90% none are projected to be 100% which means a percentage of people vaccinated could still be infected and become transmitters.

Will they still require 72 hours before you fly negative PCR test, a straight into 14 day quarantine where you have to test negative twice again plus insurance, fit to fly certificates yada yada.

I am not taking any vaccine shot to be allowed back in to bonk LBFMs and I don't think the Thai government will worry about that. They could do well allowing in Chinese, Japanese and Korean groups and excluding Cheap Charlies, who only spend pennies on pussies and beer.

Mongers are not even a consideration in all this. Better to get the shop shop shop brigade in, than the LBFM addicts. It is a golden opportunity for those who matter to go up market.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2503330]BB, That is a rather dark forecast. While I concede that the Thai Government might choose to keep Thailand in lockdown mode, I think there is much higher degree of probability that they will allow certified vaccinated North Americans, Australians, and Europeans in dropping the 14 day quarantine and other prohibitive restrictions. I could be wrong, but as I keep saying, There are plenty of extremely viable alternatives, it will be Thailand's loss if they act against their own interests as other Asian countries will most definitely open for certified vaccinated travelers and add to the growing list of some very nice countries that are already open (no quarantine).

BTW, there are some great pay later / free cancellation BKK hotel deals available for March, April, May. For example, I saw the JW Marriott for $35/ night, the Sofitel Sukhumvit for $60/ night, and the Grand Hyatt for $60/ night. Normally I am not a big fan of these hotels, but those rates are real deals.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2503228]Forbes is an American publication so it wants to give hope to Americans. Let's face it, Americans aren't getting in to Thailand. I am now predicting 2023, if that. Key to article is that people from any country can APPLY. Reality is China only for the foreseeable future. I have yet to read any Thai publication that gives any glimmer of hope that US citizens are even on the radar, with good reason.[/QUOTE]I can't say here, but I know for a fact you are not well informed. Check with the Thai Embassy Web pages for who and how people can get back. It is not easy and expensive. But there are at least 2 avenues for retirees (not tourists) to return. They are the only group motivated enough to go through the hellish process.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2503377]So you get vaccinated, Moderna 95% effective Pfizer 90% none are projected to be 100% which means a percentage of people vaccinated could still be infected and become transmitters.[/QUOTE]I doubt that a vaccination certificate will be sufficient to gain entry into Thailand without quarantine. But, I believe that vaccines will be the path to regained Thailand tourism.

Right now each Western infected person infects more than one other person, the number of COVID patients increases. I've read rates anywhere between 1.5 and 3.5 newly infected people for each new patient. As long as that rate is above 1.0, COVID builds. Drop the rate below 1.0 and the number of new COVID cases reduces. By vaccinating people, this rate of new infections goes down.

My personal projection is about 70% of the population of Western nations will be vaccinated by August 2021. Gradually, the number of new COVID cases will be small enough so the Thai government will allow visitors. Perhaps they will require vaccination certificate. My guess is Thailand travel will be easy by about October 2021.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2503439]I doubt that a vaccination certificate will be sufficient to gain entry into Thailand without quarantine. But, I believe that vaccines will be the path to regained Thailand tourism.

Right now each Western infected person infects more than one other person, the number of COVID patients increases. I've read rates anywhere between 1.5 and 3.5 newly infected people for each new patient. As long as that rate is above 1.0, COVID builds. Drop the rate below 1.0 and the number of new COVID cases reduces. By vaccinating people, this rate of new infections goes down.

My personal projection is about 70% of the population of Western nations will be vaccinated by August 2021. Gradually, the number of new COVID cases will be small enough so the Thai government will allow visitors. Perhaps they will require vaccination certificate. My guess is Thailand travel will be easy by about October 2021.[/QUOTE]Once any vaccine from a reputable company is "finalized", J&J, Pfizer or Moderna, the businesses around the world will demand that everything return to normal in order for national economies to begin to rebound. Every government will want "normalcy" and those vaccines will provide the justification for reliance on modern science to allow the world economic situation to begin again. To wait according to your belief that only a 100 percent vaccine will allow return to normal activity will be the death knell for that country's economy.

Your belief that it would take until August 2021 to get the world completely vaccinated will not apply to the western world. The United States will be completely vaccinated by the end of March 2021 based on the latest news. Other western countries will follow suit. (Interestingly, the PRC company that was conducting test trials of their "vaccine" in Brazil was halted by the Brazilian government recently due to "adverse reactions" to the "vaccine". So I don't think any PRC produced vaccine will be "accepted" by any nation as a free pass to enter. LOL!

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2503492] The United States will be completely vaccinated by the end of March 2021 based on the latest news. [/QUOTE]No way the US will be 100% vaccinated by March. First, they won't have 700 million doses ready by then (The Pfizer vaccine requires 2 doses). More important, they can't even convince half the country Covid is real and to wear a mask. People in South Dakota are dying in ICUs still thinking Covid is fake. People in the US fight measles vaccines. They don't even get flu shots. California, Oregon, Washington, and Nevada won't even accept a vaccine until they've independently tested it. Blue states don't trust Trump and big pharma. Red states don't believe in science. LOL.

Personally, I'm waiting to make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2503330]BB, That is a rather dark forecast. While I concede that the Thai Government might choose to keep Thailand in lockdown mode, I think there is much higher degree of probability that they will allow certified vaccinated North Americans, Australians, and Europeans in dropping the 14 day quarantine and other prohibitive restrictions. I could be wrong, but as I keep saying, There are plenty of extremely viable alternatives, it will be Thailand's loss if they act against their own interests as other Asian countries will most definitely open for certified vaccinated travelers and add to the growing list of some very nice countries that are already open (no quarantine).

BTW, there are some great pay later / free cancellation BKK hotel deals available for March, April, May. For example, I saw the JW Marriott for $35/ night, the Sofitel Sukhumvit for $60/ night, and the Grand Hyatt for $60/ night. Normally I am not a big fan of these hotels, but those rates are real deals.[/QUOTE]I'm more in agreement with you? If people check there is and never has been a vaccine that is 100%, Trump whether you like him or not and he is no longer President so leave him out of the discussion people want to think like Harris that she wouldn't take it because Trump made it is one of the reasons I wouldn't ever vote for the dump two face *****. Every expert article I read from science that the vaccine yes made and name by Trump " Warp Speed " is 90% effective and that is damn good in their opinion the best in history has been only 95%. In the USA Freedom reigns and at times too much is the problem nothing ever gets done.

Right now USA Has already made an agreement with several sources they will get a minimum of 100-300 million doses does anyone expect by spring 2021 everyone will get vaccinated in the USA I say wake up and get real or get your head out of the sand or stop watching too many fantasy movies. The objective will never be made to get everyone vaccinated but to slow it down so once it is out if it starts to work and does slow down you will see more and more people get it that is just common sense if that is in the equation.

As for Thailand, they have already arranged with a company to make it here doing so means money and recognition knowing Thailand they aren't going to make something and then say we aren't going to certify it because it isn't 100% effective I being stuck here is hoping they will lower the restriction or completely remove them so I can travel abroad and return to Thailand without jumping through the hoops. Being Thailand, let's leave out the corruption even the stupidity from their leaders, and say they will go this route. Continue to lock down like they are now no matter how much of a brush they want to paint how wonderful their country is to invest, how low their rate of infection and death no country can be an island. Their poor are suffering and dying.

When the vaccine comes out I was hoping that it gets some certification from Thailand to catch a flight home to the U.S. arrange my vaccine but it looks now if I need to get two shots based on the time I was staying that wouldn't be possible. So my hope is Thailand has it I will take it if they certify it for me to return with no strings attached otherwise my wait continues like the rest of you. When and if it is certified I will take the 10% chance to me that is good odds to getting off this fucking rock for two weeks.

People complain about the effectiveness of the vaccine but not being available isn't really an option how long you think the world can go on like this? Thailand should be more attentive to how many are dying from road accidents and Dengue fever!

[QUOTE=Flak3;2503496]No way the US will be 100% vaccinated by March. First, they won't have 700 million doses ready by then (The Pfizer vaccine requires 2 doses). More important, they can't even convince half the country Covid is real and to wear a mask. People in South Dakota are dying in ICUs still thinking Covid is fake. People in the US fight measles vaccines. They don't even get flu shots. California, Oregon, Washington, and Nevada won't even accept a vaccine until they've independently tested it. Blue states don't trust Trump and big pharma. Red states don't believe in science. LOL.

Personally, I'm waiting to make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.[/QUOTE]Big pharma have nothing to do with the vaccine anymore. The US government wil most likely pay a single price per vaccine.

[QUOTE=TConor;2503418]You are WRONG

I can't say here, but I know for a fact you are not well informed. Check with the Thai Embassy Web pages for who and how people can get back. It is not easy and expensive. But there are at least 2 avenues for retirees (not tourists) to return. They are the only group motivated enough to go through the hellish process.[/QUOTE]

Clearly my comment was to the general TOURIST population of Americans but you are making some claim that you can't say that I am wrong and your claim is ONLY related to RETIREES and not 99% of the guys who read this thread.

What is written on a web page and reality are 2 different things. Do you actually know Americans who have gotten back in to Thailand recently? I'm sure we are interested in hearing stories. Maybe some of the other guys fall in to the same category as some of these fortunate Americans who got back in. Married to Thai wife. Kids in Thailand. Significant business/property owners in Thailand.

With its current status of being number 1 in active cases, the general US population will be last in to many countries, not only Thailand. I will put money on that. Germany borders have been open to a list of non-Schengen countries for months. Americans are not welcome.

You are correct. I am not well informed about Thailand. I've only ever been there once for a 12 hour layover. Somehow I know 1000s of Thai gogo/bar girls though.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2503330] it will be Thailand's loss if they act against their own interests as other Asian countries will most definitely open for certified vaccinated travelers and add to the growing list of some very nice countries that are already open (no quarantine).
[/QUOTE]That's funny because just tonight I started making sure the gogo girls I wanted to see had valid passports so when countries like Japan and Korea open up, we will meet in those countries rather than Thailand.

Really when you think about it because vaccinations are not 100% effective it can be more about whether the local population is vaccinated in sufficient numbers to create herd immunity. If they are then there would be less need for extreme caution around allowing visitors in and could responsibly make do opening up with a simple vaccination certificate.

The science is still out on what the percentage is but 70% has been floated as a threshold which means 40 to 45 million Thais will need to be vaccinated. Question is, is the will there to provide the financial investment and can the system cope with procuring and delivering.

On a pure return on investment metric getting back the multi trillion baht Thai tourist industry screams absolutely. Whether the system can deliver on vaccinating that many people in a short space of time umm TIT.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2503547]..... Somehow I know 1000s of Thai gogo/bar girls though.[/QUOTE]Is that 'know' in the biblical sense, if so you are phenomenal.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2503523]I'm more in agreement with you? [/QUOTE]Yeah, I think we agree. I hope you can travel shortly.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2503553]That's funny because just tonight I started making sure the go go girls I wanted to see had valid passports so when countries like Japan and Korea open up, we will meet in those countries rather than Thailand.[/QUOTE]Ha Ha, why not? I am sure your sexy friends would love to go to Japan on holiday. Consider the Maldives as well. Thai girls are enthralled by what they have heard about the Maldives. It's beautiful, peaceful, no distractions, and it's open.

[URL]https://visitmaldives.s3.amazonaws.com/ywDeXNYN/qblrrq08.pdf[/URL]

[URL]https://visitmaldives.s3.amazonaws.com/EoAj21w9/ahpfkwoq.pdf[/URL]

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2503492] (Interestingly, the PRC company that was conducting test trials of their "vaccine" in Brazil was halted by the Brazilian government recently due to "adverse reactions" to the "vaccine". So I don't think any PRC produced vaccine will be "accepted" by any nation as a free pass to enter. LOL![/QUOTE]A study published Tuesday in The Lancet shows that the vaccine against the coronavirus developed by Chinese Sinovac, one of the most advanced, does trigger an immune response and did not cause serious side effects.

After that of the Pfizer and BioNTech laboratories, that of Moderna and that of the Russians at the Gamalea Institute, it is the turn of the "CoronaVac" vaccine from the Chinese laboratory Sinovac Biotech to (re) make people talk about it. And better than in October, when clinical trials were suspended days in Brazil after the death of a participant, which would ultimately be suicide.

A preliminary study published Tuesday in the British journal "The Lancet", shows that this vaccine, which is among those which are at the most advanced stage, phase 3, where the effectiveness of the vaccine is measured on tens of thousands of volunteers on several continents, "is safe and does elicit an immune response in healthy patients. ".

Sud Ouest.
Posted on 11/18/2020.

This is just a political feud between Bolsonaro, who wants the federal government to buy a western vaccine for all Brazil, and the governor of Sao Paulo, who wants the State of Sao Paulo to procure the Chinese vaccine for his State. This is political, not medical, and may of course be related to kick-backs.

[QUOTE=XXL;2503665]This is just a political feud between Bolsonaro, who wants the federal government to buy a western vaccine for all Brazil, and the governor of Sao Paulo, who wants the State of Sao Paulo to procure the Chinese vaccine for his State. This is political, not medical, and may of course be related to kick-backs.[/QUOTE]There are medical reasons for not wanting a Chinese vaccine. China doesn't have a good track record with vaccines and their regulatory authorities don't have the same transparency as western countries so it's understandable other countries would be reluctant to accept it. If I had to choose between a vaccine developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca and some unknown Chinese manufacturer, I know what I'd choose and I'm pretty sure you would too.

[QUOTE=*****man;2503750]There are medical reasons for not wanting a Chinese vaccine. China doesn't have a good track record with vaccines and their regulatory authorities don't have the same transparency as western countries so it's understandable other countries would be reluctant to accept it. If I had to choose between a vaccine developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca and some unknown Chinese manufacturer, I know what I'd choose and I'm pretty sure you would too.[/QUOTE]Yes, everybody with a TV knows that. I was just supplying some local info everybody might not be cognisant of.

[QUOTE=XXL;2503665]This is just a political feud between Bolsonaro, who wants the federal government to buy a western vaccine for all Brazil, and the governor of Sao Paulo, who wants the State of Sao Paulo to procure the Chinese vaccine for his State. This is political, not medical, and may of course be related to kick-backs.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate your comments and information on the political aspects of the situation of the Chinese vaccine trials. I was not aware of that situation.

However, I will not trust my life on a Chinese Community Party / PRC approved and manufactured vaccine. I don't think any one with any common sense would either. Phizer, Moderna or J&J for me. Maybe even all three vaccines to be absolutely safe!

It should be criminal keeping these vaccine's a secret. If someone has an effective vaccine it should be shared with every possible manufacturer. Government's should step in and compensate the Pfizer's or Moderna at a reasonable profit but make them share the formula for this pandemic and any in the future.

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2503875]It should be criminal keeping these vaccine's a secret. If someone has an effective vaccine it should be shared with every possible manufacturer. Government's should step in and compensate the Pfizer's or Moderna at a reasonable profit but make them share the formula for this pandemic and any in the future.[/QUOTE]I agree regarding Moderna, that was largely funded by the USA government. At a minimum, USA government should have rights to it. Moderna didn't risk their own money in the development.

Pfizer is different. They didn't get funded by the government, they only had an advanced agreement to purchase a certain number of dosages if it worked. Pfizer risked all their R&D money and I feel they should be entitled to the vaccine design.

I'm making these statements based on little bits of information gathered from various sources. If somebody has a link to some real funding information, I would appreciate seeing the link.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2503882]I agree regarding Moderna, that was largely funded by the USA government. At a minimum, USA government should have rights to it. Moderna didn't risk their own money in the development.

Pfizer is different. They didn't get funded by the government, they only had an advanced agreement to purchase a certain number of dosages if it worked. Pfizer risked all their R&D money and I feel they should be entitled to the vaccine design.

I'm making these statements based on little bits of information gathered from various sources. If somebody has a link to some real funding information, I would appreciate seeing the link.[/QUOTE]It has been a while where I read it but I believe the USA Also dump billions into helping Pfizer it wasn't just in the production. I also feel any imports from China should have additions added to compensate the countries around the world for their pandemic! Like most world events they never step up and put in their fair share!

[QUOTE=RioHeart;2503875]It should be criminal keeping these vaccine's a secret. If someone has an effective vaccine it should be shared with every possible manufacturer. Government's should step in and compensate the Pfizer's or Moderna at a reasonable profit but make them share the formula for this pandemic and any in the future.[/QUOTE]I don't think you can just "share the formula" of a vaccine like you can with a medicine. They each have their own unique manufacturing, storage and distribution process that would be beyond the capability of some generic manufacturer.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2503492].......... So I don't think any PRC produced vaccine will be "accepted" by any nation as a free pass to enter. LOL![/QUOTE]Why LOL? I am not happy about this. I think the more successful vaccines there are the better for the world.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2503492]... So I don't think any PRC produced vaccine will be "accepted" by any nation as a free pass to enter. LOL![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turgid;2504035]Why LOL? I am not happy about this. I think the more successful vaccines there are the better for the world.[/QUOTE]I don't think any vaccination alone will be accepted as an entry pass. The home nation will also need to demonstrate reduced COVID infections, which should happen shortly after vaccines are widely distributed.

I’d like to think that there will be at least a few different vaccines available. If one has long term problems it would nice to have another ready for use. We don’t know how often we will need to get vaccine boosters, if ever.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2504118]I don't think any vaccination alone will be accepted as an entry pass. The home nation will also need to demonstrate reduced COVID infections, which should happen shortly after vaccines are widely distributed.

Id like to think that there will be at least a few different vaccines available. If one has long term problems it would nice to have another ready for use. We dont know how often we will need to get vaccine boosters, if ever.[/QUOTE]I agree, as for Thailand, it will have to be a number of combinations before they open up after a vaccine and that will also be the ability to control the spread and provide quick medical solutions which right now in my opinion there is none in place outside of Bangkok.

Over a month ago I was reading an article on the two leading vaccines and CDC (USA) assigned to make the distribution and they were already putting out notices to those who would provide the doses like Pharmacy like Walgreen. Of the two one had to be given two shots and both must be handle in a specific manner (temperature) one due to the low temperature most likely can only be given by City Health Departments due to the storage equipment. Having spoken to my cousin and nephew who works for the Veterans and City Health Department in our conversation say they are already set up once it is shipped.

From what I have already read not all are just vaccine there are many others which aren't just banking on a shot or shots?

So this proposal is actually picking up steam. You have to have the Thai Elite Visa which costs 1 million over 5 years. You must also invest 1 million in a business or property. So 2 million baht gets you in. Not difficult to swallow if you really want to be in Thailand long term. They will likely add something like you need 1 or 2 million in a Thai bank account as well. So if you have 3 or 4 million in liquid assets there is hope.

Hopefully I don't get called out again by a board member that I am wrong and know nothing about Thailand. Then tell me he can't tell me why I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=Natty Bumpo;2503640]Consider the Maldives as well. Thai girls are enthralled by what they have heard about the Maldives. It's beautiful, peaceful, no distractions, and it's open.[/QUOTE]

I've always wanted to go to the Maldives as well but am too cheap to do so. Maybe when I win the 30 million Thai lottery.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2504214]So this proposal is actually picking up steam. You have to have the Thai Elite Visa which costs 1 million over 5 years. You must also invest 1 million in a business or property. So 2 million baht gets you in. Not difficult to swallow if you really want to be in Thailand long term. They will likely add something like you need 1 or 2 million in a Thai bank account as well. So if you have 3 or 4 million in liquid assets there is hope.

Hopefully I don't get called out again by a board member that I am wrong and know nothing about Thailand. Then tell me he can't tell me why I'm wrong.



I've always wanted to go to the Maldives as well but am too cheap to do so. Maybe when I win the 30 million Thai lottery.[/QUOTE]Anyone who calls another member out that he is wrong is an ego idiot and if I did I would be included in that list. No one really knows it is just " opinions " derive from what we are reading like FH story does one read something and really get it?

As for all these ideas it never has really picked up steam the Thai leaders come out with all these made-up numbers to make people think it is? The last article I read Embassy in the USA And Europe have voiced their dissatisfaction about needing to have 500,000 in a bank account and must be proof for last six month. Things are suggested that just fall apart, then some other person picks it up and runs with it again!

In the last month, I've been contacted by Cathay my flight to the US has been canceled, today my hotel in S. F. Said they are canceling my reservation for Feb, I was hoping for the best 6 months ago but I already knew based on everything being thrown out that just hasn't worked my trip wasn't going to happen. So now I cross my finger regardless of the crazy outbreak in the USA Something bright will happen so I can plan for June?

I was talking to a gogo girl and she was under the impression that anyone can get in to Thailand now but no one wants to sit around for 14 days. She asked why I don't come because I have nothing else to do and 14 day quarantine would be easy for me. I told her it was only for China at the moment and she argued that my country can get in. This girl watches the news constantly so who knows what Thai people are being told on Thai news.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2504270]I was talking to a gogo girl and she was under the impression that anyone can get in to Thailand now but no one wants to sit around for 14 days. She asked why I don't come because I have nothing else to do and 14 day quarantine would be easy for me. I told her it was only for China at the moment and she argued that my country can get in. This girl watches the news constantly so who knows what Thai people are being told on Thai news.[/QUOTE]Banana Boi,

I think things may be quietly changing. I happened on an article which said the list of eligible categories had expanded for the Royal Thai Embassies in UK and US. A quick dig on the London Embassy website and at first glance it looks like no update since August. However, go to the list at [URL]https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/119247-requirements-for-certificate-of-entry-during-travel-restriction?page=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072dd&menu=5f4b6eb3f6ae4b236972c562[/URL] and eligibility for Certificate of Entry now include:

For long-stay visa holder (Non-Immigrant O-A / O-X).

For retirement (Non-Immigrant O).

For Elite Card holders.

For non-Thai who own property in Thailand.

For tourism purpose (single entry tourist visa only).

The single entry tourist visa is a sixty day visa (one 30 day extension permitted). I have also read that the previous requirement of B500 k in a Thai bank is no longer applicable. The UK Embassy just says proof from a UK or Irish bank of sufficient funds to cover the trip.

One small issue for readers in England. You are probably breaking the Lockdown v2 laws by going to the airport between now and early December as "leaving the country" (except for work) is not a permitted reason to leave home.

When I get a bit more time I'll check the Thai Embassy US to see if the criteria are the same. The article said the change happened on 18-Nov, but it seems the Embassy website dates don't update when the pages are updated (the link says August, the page July and the change was recent).

Banana Boi,

The list on the Royal Thai Embassy DC ([URL]https://thaiembdc.org/covid-19inthailand/[/URL]) appears to be the same.

They also provide a list of repatriation flights and allowable flights operating on a "semi-commercial" basis (their phrase, whatever it means), although the latter would probably mean connecting either in Europe or the Middle East (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Dubai). Be careful on connections. I think if you're anything more than in transit in places like London you will be required to self-isolate for 14 days whilst there.

One additional thing - there is some uncertainty as to whether the 60 day tourist visa can be "flipped" onto another visa type once in-country. As so often there are agents trying to say that they can do it (for a hefty fee) but whether this is strictly kosher or involves a brown envelope and the back door of the immigration office is open to debate.

All other requirements (pre-flight rt-PCR test, fit-to-fly cert, $100k insurance and 14 day quarantine remain in place). I have read of people having difficulty with their existing Health Insurance including Covid19 cover but it not being accepted by Embassies. There is a Thai General Insurance Association portal where the cover is on offer (https://covid19.tgia.org/).

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2504313]I have read of people having difficulty with their existing health insurance (including Covid coverage) not being accepted by embassies.

There is a Thai General Insurance Association portal where the cover is on offer (https://covid19.tgia.org/).[/QUOTE]The Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, D.C. advises those wishing to apply for a O-A retirement visa: "You may use your existing insurance coverage if it meets this requirement." Elsewhere on the same page, the Embassy advises the required health insurance must "cover a minimum of 100,000 USD (or equivalent in other currencies) of medical costs incurred by the applicant in Thailand, including medical costs in the event that the applicant contracts COVID-19" and "the insurance must cover the whole duration of stay in Thailand." [URL]https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/oalongstay/[/URL].

Obviously, everybody's health insurance is different. But I checked my policy for so-called "overseas coverage" and it does cover medical care (including hospitalization) when I am outside the United States. By way of contrast, Medicare generally does *not* cover seniors who require medical care outside the United States. Obviously that's just one data point. And I admit that I have excellent health insurance through and employee group plan.

It doesn't surprise me that some Thai consular officials cast a gimlet eye upon health insurance that wasn't purchased through the government-approved portal. That would require them to interpret the coverage and make a decision on whether it met the COVID coverage rule. Far easier to verify the visa applicant purchased coverage through the portal. And, I might add, far more profitable for the Thai insurance companies.

It is possible that the vaccine might prevent us from getting sick from covid but still allow us to spread the disease. If that is the case Thailand would need to be widely vaccinated across country before they open up. Guy on rogan said about effects of vaccine.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2504489]It is possible that the vaccine might prevent us from getting sick from covid but still allow us to spread the disease. If that is the case Thailand would need to be widely vaccinated across country before they open up. Guy on rogan said about effects of vaccine.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is possible. That topic was briefly discussed on tonight's edition of the PBS news hour.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2504510]Yes, it is possible. That topic was briefly discussed on tonight's edition of the PBS news hour.[/QUOTE]I want to clarify my response. It is possible in a sense that it is unknown. Not in a sense that scientists know that it will happen some or all of the time.

[QUOTE=Bunky;2504454]It doesn't surprise me that some Thai consular officials cast a gimlet eye upon health insurance that wasn't purchased through the government-approved portal. That would require them to interpret the coverage and make a decision on whether it met the COVID coverage rule. Far easier to verify the visa applicant purchased coverage through the portal. And, I might add, far more profitable for the Thai insurance companies.[/QUOTE]Bunky,

The issue, from what I have gathered, is that a lot of health insurance policies may cover Covid19 as it is not excluded but unless the policy specifically states that Covid19 is covered to the level of $100 k or more this may not be acceptable to the consular officials. How many health insurers have updated their wordings to specifically state that the condition is covered?

I have heard anecdotal evidence of some officials accepting letters from insurers to confirm it is covered, others insisting if the policy itself does not specifically state the Covid19 cover exists they cannot accept this. This apparent discrepancy is even quoted as happening with two officials from the same Embassy.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2504313]Banana Boi,

The list on the Royal Thai Embassy DC ([URL]https://thaiembdc.org/covid-19inthailand/[/URL]) appears to be the same.

They also provide a list of repatriation flights and allowable flights operating on a "semi-commercial" basis (their phrase, whatever it means), although the latter would probably mean connecting either in Europe or the Middle East (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Dubai). Be careful on connections. I think if you're anything more than in transit in places like London you will be required to self-isolate for 14 days whilst there.

One additional thing - there is some uncertainty as to whether the 60 day tourist visa can be "flipped" onto another visa type once in-country. As so often there are agents trying to say that they can do it (for a hefty fee) but whether this is strictly kosher or involves a brown envelope and the back door of the immigration office is open to debate.

All other requirements (pre-flight rt-PCR test, fit-to-fly cert, $100k insurance and 14 day quarantine remain in place). I have read of people having difficulty with their existing Health Insurance including Covid19 cover but it not being accepted by Embassies. There is a Thai General Insurance Association portal where the cover is on offer (https://covid19.tgia.org/).[/QUOTE]The problem isn't the list, which is in fact the same. The problem is each Thai Embassy seems to have a different interruption of what is listed. This is consistent in Thailand every immigration has a different requirement for example when they started enforcement of the TM-30 every province had their own rule this is why the reference of left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing!

[QUOTE=Horatio;2504489]It is possible that the vaccine might prevent us from getting sick from covid but still allow us to spread the disease. If that is the case Thailand would need to be widely vaccinated across country before they open up. Guy on rogan said about effects of vaccine.[/QUOTE]If you don't get sick, you cannot spread the virus. The virus is spread by human to human close proximity, either by direct contact or breathing in the virus from a sick person. Therefore, a person who is vaccinated cannot get sick and cannot spread the virus. That is the whole purpose of vaccination, stopping the spread of the disease.

That seems common sense but is not necessarily true. That's why I posted it. It's similar to asymptomatic spreading of disease. No symptoms but still able to spread covid.

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2504737]If you don't get sick, you cannot spread the virus. The virus is spread by human to human close proximity, either by direct contact or breathing in the virus from a sick person. Therefore, a person who is vaccinated cannot get sick and cannot spread the virus. That is the whole purpose of vaccination, stopping the spread of the disease.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2504564]A lot of health insurance policies may cover Covid19 as it is not excluded. But unless the policy specifically states that Covid19 is covered to the level of $100 k or more this may not be acceptable to the consular officials. How many health insurers have updated their wordings to specifically state that the condition is covered?[/QUOTE]Probably very few. But that's not how health insurance works. Usually the coverage extends to all professional medical treatment that's "reasonably necessary" or some similar definition. There are an infinite number of maladies that can require professional medical treatment. And COVID shows that new sicknesses are being discovered every day. There is no way the insurer could list them all in the insurance contract. To the contrary, the contracts typically contain a list of "exclusions" to make it clear what is *not* covered. For example, experimental treatment, cosmetic treatments and treatments from people who aren't professional health care providers. (There are also requirements to get advance approval for certain expensive treatments and tests, but let's set those aside.)

As Mr. Up cogently notes, the fact that COVID is not specifically mentioned in health insurance documents gives Thai consular officials an easy way to force visa applicants to buy insurance from a Thai company through the official online portal. Sounds like some determined applicants have been able to get their health insurer to supplement the standard documents with a written statement emphasizing that they are, in fact, covered if they come down with COVID while in Thailand. At that point, it seems to me, it's up to the consular officer to decide whether the COVID insurance requirement is met. Those officers who interpret the requirement in a way that protects the Thai health care system from sick falang who run up big bills they can't pay will probably call it good. Those officers who interpret the requirement in a way that lines the pockets of Thai insurance companies selling expensive single-purpose policies to rich falang will probably take a different view.

[QUOTE=Bunky;2504791]Probably very few. But that's not how health insurance works. Usually the coverage extends to all professional medical treatment that's "reasonably necessary" or some similar definition. There are an infinite number of maladies that can require professional medical treatment. And COVID shows that new sicknesses are being discovered every day. There is no way the insurer could list them all in the insurance contract. To the contrary, the contracts typically contain a list of "exclusions" to make it clear what is *not* covered. For example, experimental treatment, cosmetic treatments and treatments from people who aren't professional health care providers. (There are also requirements to get advance approval for certain expensive treatments and tests, but let's set those aside.)

As Mr. Up cogently notes, the fact that COVID is not specifically mentioned in health insurance documents gives Thai consular officials an easy way to force visa applicants to buy insurance from a Thai company through the official online portal. Sounds like some determined applicants have been able to get their health insurer to supplement the standard documents with a written statement emphasizing that they are, in fact, covered if they come down with COVID while in Thailand. At that point, it seems to me, it's up to the consular officer to decide whether the COVID insurance requirement is met. Those officers who interpret the requirement in a way that protects the Thai health care system from sick falang who run up big bills they can't pay will probably call it good. Those officers who interpret the requirement in a way that lines the pockets of Thai insurance companies selling expensive single-purpose policies to rich falang will probably take a different view.[/QUOTE]One thing Insurance here in Thailand isn't like in the West it is what I consider Ala Carte the same insurance you would buy for a dog exists here for humans! " similar definition " if it isn't mentioned one can construe it can also be covered but I learn from experience here what are you going to do " nothing " " fight " go to a rights lawyer class action like in the West? Insurance companies here know the chances are slim and none the reason if you ever read the fine print on a policy it is clear they want the money and not to cover you at all. My Thai son policy 1. 5 million compared to what I use to have with the same company included lots of things that wouldn't cover for me just based on from I was from. His policy no mentioned of Virus when I call is covered just like the flu normal but now all of a sudden for foreigners policies it isn't and you need to get extra coverage? It is a joke call it what you want but many things here are just laced with discrimination and prejudice it has been in their thinking for centuries and it isn't going to change not in my lifetime.

Can you imagine having insurance in the USA Being diagnosed with Lyme Disease and they tell you " oh it isn't covered " they would be doing the policyholder a favor $$ just like when I'm home I make sure to take public transit hoping it messes me over before I even get on my departure flight the City would be calling and telling me " don't leave we are sending you a check ".

Personally if I am applying for an OA Visa or even traveling to Thailand I would be purchasing the Thai insurance approved to satisfy Immigration rules. After you're in then work around getting insurance from your home country. The last thing I would want is to think I had everything lined up only to be turned back at Immigration because an IO doesn't understand what exactly is required. You may be 100% certain you have met all the requirements but the wrong IO will make you purchase the next available flight home and once you get home you likely have to look for a place to rent as you have rented your house for a year. Health insurance is not a big ticket item in the the scheme of things. Why chance it?

Get it right and look it up yourself!

It is reported that Pfizer with German partner BioNTech, has made the first Emergency request to put out the Vaccine with the FDA, Moderna the second leader will be following suit. Both vaccines are rated effective 994% effective, the final review of data of testing started in July will be done by mid-December if approved the vaccine will be provided to the front line and senior home care facilities already authorized is CVS and Walgreens the USA And it will be free. Both companies have also applied to other countries like Canada, Australia, Britain, Japan, and the list is growing for their approval, I believe and more hopeful than any visa program Thailand government comes out with if successful to slow it down and application requested with Thailand is approved and Thailand like to follow and this is what they have been waiting for while coming with all these visa ideas to make it look like they are actually doing something? We might have something to celebrate about?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2503943]It has been a while where I read it but I believe the USA Also dump billions into helping Pfizer it wasn't just in the production. I also feel any imports from China should have additions added to compensate the countries around the world for their pandemic! Like most world events they never step up and put in their fair share![/QUOTE]Pfizer has not accepted money from US but they have signed an agreement to provide vaccine when it becomes available.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2504915]Get it right and look it up yourself!

It is reported that Pfizer with German partner BioNTech, has made the first Emergency request to put out the Vaccine with the FDA, Moderna the second leader will be following suit. Both vaccines are rated effective 994% effective, the final review of data of testing started in July will be done by mid-December if approved the vaccine will be provided to the front line and senior home care facilities already authorized is CVS and Walgreens the USA And it will be free. Both companies have also applied to other countries like Canada, Australia, Britain, Japan, and the list is growing for their approval, I believe and more hopeful than any visa program Thailand government comes out with if successful to slow it down and application requested with Thailand is approved and Thailand like to follow and this is what they have been waiting for while coming with all these visa ideas to make it look like they are actually doing something? We might have something to celebrate about?[/QUOTE]It has been reported that CVS and Walgreens have no idea how the distribution process would work and that needs to be solved.

Under no circumstances will I take a c19 vaccine. If that means no more travel, so be it. Friends whose opinion I value are of the same mind. Others just March blindly along, like unthinking sheep. There are countless posts here on "the vaccine. " There is no silver bullet and posting uninformed messages on obscure web sites like this does not change it.

I sent messages to Thai hookers on various sites. Their replies are much more informed and relevant than repetitive, uninformed, syntax-free posts on "the vaccine".

[QUOTE=Nounce;2504938]Pfizer has not accepted money from US but they have signed an agreement to provide vaccine when it becomes available.

It has been reported that CVS and Walgreens have no idea how the distribution process would work and that needs to be solved.[/QUOTE]I guess it is how you what to look at it? From what I read you are right but the USA Has made a contract for 1. 95 Billion to them for 100 million doses I guess that contract would keep Pfizer ability to obtain loans to continue to develop the vaccine. Then you got the CDC given the assignment of outlining the distribution and CVS and Walgreen has already applied for the distribution and been approved that approval of course requires them to follow the outlines of the CDC for distribution.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2504912]. Health insurance is not a big ticket item in the the scheme of things. Why chance it?[/QUOTE]Actually BB it can be, depending on age and how long it's for.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2504957]I guess it is how you what to look at it? From what I read you are right but the USA Has made a contract for 1. 95 Billion to them for 100 million doses I guess that contract would keep Pfizer ability to obtain loans to continue to develop the vaccine. Then you got the CDC given the assignment of outlining the distribution and CVS and Walgreen has already applied for the distribution and been approved that approval of course requires them to follow the outlines of the CDC for distribution.[/QUOTE]Pfizer 's partner BioNTech is based in Germany. It is German government financed several hundreds of millions for the vaccine development. Pfizer CEO has said they do not want to accept the US government money so there is not string attached and the scientists can do their work without being influenced by the US government.

Things always proceed faster in thought, but much slower in execution. What you read is only a thought or a plan that lacks detail. Wall streets analyst who tried to find the detail on how the distribution to the pharmacy level will be done can't find anybody who knows.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2473465]If prices for girls were THE SAME everywhere which cities / countries would you be visiting the most to hobby? Based on girl's looks, service, attitude and the overall ease of hobbying.

I personally haven't included many cities like Prague / Budapest / London / Montreal / Toronto, etc with escorts only because imo not being able to see the girl before she appears at the door is not ease of hobbying.

Mine would be:

1. Dusseldorf / Frankfurt / Berlin.
2. Las Vegas
3. Switzerland
4. Tokyo / Osaka.
5. Bangkok / Pattaya.[/QUOTE]

An interesting question since prices around the world are converging.
In general I would list these countries. Just ordered into three groups, not ordered within the groups (too complicated).

BEST.
Thailand (looks, attitude, ease).
Japan (looks, ease) ?
Macao (looks, ease).
Philippines (attitude, ease).
Indonesia (looks, attitude).
Emirates (looks, ease) ?
Germany, Switzerland (looks, ease).
Mexico (looks).
Brazil (looks, attitude, ease).

SECOND.
Hong Kong (looks, ease).
Malaysia (looks).
Cambodia (looks, ease).
Myanmar (looks).
Spain (ease).
Dominicana (looks, ease) ?
Colombia (looks, ease).
Kenya (looks) ?

THIRD.
Vietnam (looks) ?
Emirates (looks, ease) ?
Costa Rica (ease).
Panama (ease) ?
Argentina.
Ethiopia.
Australia (ease).

I'm surprised there aren't more reports from Greece, in particular Athens. There are two rather famous (or perhaps that should be infamous streets in Central Athens Odoz Fyllis and Odoz Kolonou. To locals, Odoz Fyllis is affectionally known as 20 euro Street and Odoz Kolonou as 10 euro Street. Yup, in Odoz Fyllis you can get a BJ and full sex for a mere 20 euros and in Odoz Kolonou it can be as low as only 10 euros.

Now you might think that for a mere 10 euros, the lady whose services you were buying would be a double-bagger or even a triple bagger. And in many cases you'd be right. But there are also some very attractive ladies willing to do a CBJ and then a CGFE for just 10 euros to 20 euros.

Just as a comparison, a plate with small pork souvlaki skewers, some chips and a bit of salad in a basic restaurant / taverna also costs about €10 euros. Add in some house wine and it's probably nearer 20 euros.

So in Greece you can now get a quick full service (no more than 10 minutes) for the price of a kebab plus trimmings.

This sounds pretty bad. But, in fact, the situation is even worse. You see, these ladies are not freelancers working for themselves. They work in brothels probably run by Russian, Bulgarian and Albanian gangs. (I'm not sure the Greeks are sufficiently organized or hard-working to even run a brothel properly). This means that from every 10 euros a customer hands over, the girl is probably only getting around 5 euros if she's working voluntarily and probably less than that if she's been trafficked from some Eastern European paradise. At busier times, there are usually small queues of men in each brothel waiting for their turn. So I imagine each reasonable-looking girl is probably turning at least 20 and possibly closer to 30 tricks a day.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2504966]Pfizer 's partner BioNTech is based in Germany. It is German government financed several hundreds of millions for the vaccine development. Pfizer CEO has said they do not want to accept the US government money so there is not string attached and the scientists can do their work without being influenced by the US government.

Things always proceed faster in thought, but much slower in execution. What you read is only a thought or a plan that lacks detail. Wall streets analyst who tried to find the detail on how the distribution to the pharmacy level will be done can't find anybody who knows.[/QUOTE]All they got to do is comtact the CDC they were chosen because of their experience with dealing with the Sars. As I noted CDC has already put out the guidelines as to the handling temerature requirements and handling shipment would basically shipped in pizza side boxes with a number of viles that once open must be used in a specfic time provide something like six shots therefore Pharmacy should make appointment arrangement accordingly. The vaccine that requires much lower temperature storage currently only City Heallth Department and large hospital have which as I noted much of that information comes from family member who are in the health professions at a large city health department and west coast VA facility who I been in contact. EverythingI noted is of public why it can't be found?

[QUOTE=JohnTraveller;2504970]An interesting question since prices around the world are converging.
In general I would list these countries. Just ordered into three groups, not ordered within the groups (too complicated).

BEST.
Thailand (looks, attitude, ease).
Japan (looks, ease) ?
Macao (looks, ease).
Philippines (attitude, ease).
Indonesia (looks, attitude).
Emirates (looks, ease) ?
Germany, Switzerland (looks, ease).
Mexico (looks).
Brazil (looks, attitude, ease).

SECOND.
Hong Kong (looks, ease).
Malaysia (looks).
Cambodia (looks, ease).
Myanmar (looks).
Spain (ease).
Dominicana (looks, ease) ?
Colombia (looks, ease).
Kenya (looks) ?

THIRD.
Vietnam (looks) ?
Emirates (looks, ease) ?
Costa Rica (ease).
Panama (ease) ?
Argentina.
Ethiopia.
Australia (ease).[/QUOTE]Interesting. I'm going to state my best in each of your categories. The best in looks is Germany. The best in attitude is Brazil. The best in ease is Thailand. The overall best mongering spot in the world is one of these three.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2504986]All they got to do is comtact the CDC they were chosen because of their experience with dealing with the Sars. As I noted CDC has already put out the guidelines as to the handling temerature requirements and handling shipment would basically shipped in pizza side boxes with a number of viles that once open must be used in a specfic time provide something like six shots therefore Pharmacy should make appointment arrangement accordingly. The vaccine that requires much lower temperature storage currently only City Heallth Department and large hospital have which as I noted much of that information comes from family member who are in the health professions at a large city health department and west coast VA facility who I been in contact. EverythingI noted is of public why it can't be found?[/QUOTE]It will be great if it is as easy as you described, and I hope you are right.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2505134]It will be great if it is as easy as you described, and I hope you are right.[/QUOTE]I never said it would be easy! But I'm not in the camp that believes that no one has an idea what to do or it must be " solved " prior to its distribution. These companies are all tied into the open market which is mostly Nasdaq, you follow them and one can see in the last year their stock rise and fall based on the news that comes out from their CEO as to their progress. The backing or purchasing power of 190 Billion from the USA Allows a company to use that rise to fuel their research as we know none of these companies are going to develop something that doesn't increase their bottom line. Does the USA Have a direct say in Pfizer to force them to put out a product that isn't safe not even Trump or Warp speech can! You also look indirectly into all the hands needed to make it happen down to the box or containers that will be used to transport and store the vaccine. I remember my former supervisor after 9/11 who went to established TSA on the West coast feeding information that they were in the process of inking a deal for bomb detection equipment under the terminal lots of inside trading nothing so big the SEC could prosecute.

Solved it has been nearly a year no perfect solution to everything they will roll it out based on what they have and fix what is necessary on the way that is how I'm looking at it. Every country will have to figure it out as for Thailand I cross my fingers that the rate starts to lower so we can start to get back to what we all do best which is come and go as we please once that happens I hope that kiss ass Biden continue to put the squeeze on China.

I know we're not supposed to post these loosening of the requirements to get back into Thailand news items here without qualifying that it should not be believed until it has been verified by first hand testimony.

But it does look like the bank requirement will be reduced from USD $17,000 to $700/$1500. That's a huge reduction (if it happens). In my judgement, those reduced amounts would not exactly be deal killers for many Western tourists. And the 14 day quarantine on arrival might be reduced to 10 days. True, a 10 day quarantine on arrival will still cost something without a lot of value for the money in it other than getting very, very well adjusted to the time change before hitting the bars, malls and temples.

[URL]https://www.traveldailymedia.com/thailand-drops-hefty-bank-requirement-for-tourist-visas/[/URL]

So far there are no rumors or reports of a reduction of the minimum USD $100,000 insurance policy requirement, including coverage for Covid-19. But it seems to me that is something an adult world traveler ought to have anyway.

No mention yet of only passport holders from certain countries qualifying for these visas while others are not.

I know a few of you guys like EVA Air. Be wary that in order for you to board any EVA Air plane that stops in Taipei you are now required to produce a negative COVID test dated no more than 72 hours prior to your boarding time.

2020..........year of the pandemic.

2021..........year of recovery.

2022..........year of getting back to normal.

2023..........normal.

I think any discussion of best mongering destinations needs to include The Netherlands. Amsterdam has 3 RLD's and multiple Prive Houses (brothels) to choose from, and there is some action to be found in the smaller cities. So ease is high, and looks can also be high with both native Dutch and Eastern / Western European ladies in the mix.

SL.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2506519]2020..........year of the pandemic.

2021..........year of recovery.

2022..........year of getting back to normal.

2023..........normal.[/QUOTE]From the perspective of the common Thai workers and small business owners, I agree. From the perspective of world travelers with money to spend, things will be almost normal in 2022. In future years I expect that world travelers will need to carry proof of vaccinations.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2506519]2020..........year of the pandemic.

2021..........year of recovery.

2022..........year of getting back to normal.

2023..........normal.[/QUOTE]I don't think so. Sectors that are hit hardest are very much consumer driven and in Thailand: tourist driven. Once they return everything will be normal very soon. Only caveat is how to check the tourists got a vaccine in a reliable, easy way. We see it in Holland already. Economy recovered quickly before the second wave.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2506584]I think any discussion of best mongering destinations needs to include The Netherlands. Amsterdam has 3 RLD's and multiple Prive Houses (brothels) to choose from, and there is some action to be found in the smaller cities. So ease is high, and looks can also be high with both native Dutch and Eastern / Western European ladies in the mix.

SL.[/QUOTE]If you are serious about that than why don't you contribute to the Dutch part of this forum. Many people asking for advice. And to be honest: most contributors to Dutch prostitution sites left for FKK Germany. To me that means 300 to 600 kilometers instead of 15. And I gladly do that.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2506584]I think any discussion of best mongering destinations needs to include The Netherlands. Amsterdam has 3 RLD's and multiple Prive Houses (brothels) to choose from, and there is some action to be found in the smaller cities. So ease is high, and looks can also be high with both native Dutch and Eastern / Western European ladies in the mix.

SL.[/QUOTE]If you've actually mongered in the Netherlands I don't think you'd say that. Very expensive with lots of tourist traps.

If I am vaccinated in June, what do people here think. Can I go to Thailand from USA in June? Will they require quarantine or health insurance?

I know it's just a guess. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2506519]2020..........year of the pandemic.

2021..........year of recovery.

2022..........year of getting back to normal.

2023..........normal.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turgid;2506731]If you've actually mongered in the Netherlands I don't think you'd say that. Very expensive with lots of tourist traps.[/QUOTE]Not sure where that came from. I have dozens of trips to Holland under my belt. As for tourist traps: I never experienced any in the NL, but they likely exist wherever mongering exist. Hazard of the hobby.

And FWIW the premise of the original question was if prices were THE SAME everywhere. Please try to keep up:

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2473465]If prices for girls were THE SAME everywhere which cities / countries would you be visiting the most to hobby? Based on girl's looks, service, attitude and the overall ease of hobbying.

I personally haven't included many cities like Prague / Budapest / London / Montreal / Toronto, etc with escorts only because imo not being able to see the girl before she appears at the door is not ease of hobbying.

Mine would be:

1. Dusseldorf / Frankfurt / Berlin.
2. Las Vegas
3. Switzerland
4. Tokyo / Osaka.
5. Bangkok / Pattaya.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2506584]I think any discussion of best mongering destinations needs to include The Netherlands. Amsterdam has 3 RLD's and multiple Prive Houses (brothels) to choose from, and there is some action to be found in the smaller cities. So ease is high, and looks can also be high with both native Dutch and Eastern / Western European ladies in the mix.

SL.[/QUOTE]The mongering scene in the NL has been dying for over a decade now. Amsterdam RLD now smaller and less interesting than Brussels'. NL authorities now largely hostile to sex, as the forced closure of FKK Yinyang has shown. FKK Golden Times across the NL border in Brüggen full of Dutch punters for a reason.

Today's trend in NL Society has been towards a return to prohibitions (magic mushrooms banned in Amsterdam since a few years, and cannabis sale in coffee shops officially restricted to Dutch citizens).

[QUOTE=XXL;2507858]The mongering scene in the NL has been dying for over a decade now. Amsterdam RLD now smaller and less interesting than Brussels'. NL authorities now largely hostile to sex, as the forced closure of FKK Yinyang has shown. FKK Golden Times across the NL border in Brggen full of Dutch punters for a reason.

Today's trend in NL Society has been towards a return to prohibitions (magic mushrooms banned in Amsterdam since a few years, and cannabis sale in coffee shops officially restricted to Dutch citizens).[/QUOTE]The 'scene is not what it used to be' is a common veteran monger refrain. It is the same here on the Thailand board. Generally stated: quality down, prices up, options diminished. Over on the FKK threads they thought the world was coming to an end when the new law prohibited bareback sex. But based on ease and quality Amsterdam was still quite viable. The future is to be determined though, and dependent on the inevitable post-CoVid reset.

SL.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2507789]If I am vaccinated in June, what do people here think. Can I go to Thailand from USA in June? Will they require quarantine or health insurance?

I know it's just a guess. Thanks.[/QUOTE]That all depends on the Thai Tourism Minister. I'm sure once the vaccines start showing improvement in the countries for incoming visitors, the country will slowly reopen. That said, after reviewing Pattaya One News, there is no mention on the status of vaccines for Thais. That will be key as well. I don't imagine anything happening until late Spring of next year. I also imagine there will be calls that those entering have proof of a vaccine and still purchase Thai travel insurance. It could be years before a pre-COVID Pattaya is back to normal. IMHO.

[QUOTE=Nixonbd;2507971]I also imagine there will be calls that those entering have proof of a vaccine and still purchase Thai travel insurance. It could be years before a pre-COVID Pattaya is back to normal. IMHO.[/QUOTE]If you're coming from a first world country then I would think you would need proof of vaccination before you leave. If not, you would need it on your return or have to go into quarantine. That will be the case here in Australia. Being vaccinated probably won't be compulsory but I'd imagine the airlines would prefer it. Qantas gave already said they won't take bookings from people who haven't been vaccinated.

I personally really enjoy walking around the Amsterdam RLD. However, being so near Germany I don't find any urge to go with a girl unless she's very hot. Most of the time I do 0 or 1 girl but there was 1 night I did 4 girls years ago when the girls were Hungarian. Still, it's a lot of fun for a night if I happen to be in Amsterdam.

[QUOTE=XXL;2507858]NL authorities now largely hostile to sex, as the forced closure of FKK Yinyang has shown. FKK Golden Times across the NL border in Brggen full of Dutch punters for a reason.[/QUOTE]

I believe Sixsens remains open. I preferred Sixsens over YY anyways.

[QUOTE=Nixonbd;2507971]That all depends on the Thai Tourism Minister. I'm sure once the vaccines start showing improvement in the countries for incoming visitors, the country will slowly reopen. That said, after reviewing Pattaya One News, there is no mention on the status of vaccines for Thais. That will be key as well. I don't imagine anything happening until late Spring of next year. I also imagine there will be calls that those entering have proof of a vaccine and still purchase Thai travel insurance. It could be years before a pre-COVID Pattaya is back to normal. IMHO.[/QUOTE]The Thai gov has pre-purchased some vaccines but nowhere near enough for all citizens.

I'm betting mid 2021 it will be vaccine + insurance + maybe a week quarantine or some other restriction.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2508094]I personally really enjoy walking around the Amsterdam RLD. However, being so near Germany I don't find any urge to go with a girl unless she's very hot. Most of the time I do 0 or 1 girl but there was 1 night I did 4 girls years ago when the girls were Hungarian. Still, it's a lot of fun for a night if I happen to be in Amsterdam.[/QUOTE]I still like visiting Amsterdam and its RLD. But it seems the girls are primarily Romanian or Bulgarian and they don't appeal to me. I loved it when the girls were Polish, Czech, Hungarian, etc. Alkmaar is always a fun side trip, more for walking around town than its RLD.

[QUOTE=IHeartIpa;2508197]The Thai gov has pre-purchased some vaccines but nowhere near enough for all citizens.

I'm betting mid 2021 it will be vaccine + insurance + maybe a week quarantine or some other restriction.[/QUOTE]There is an article today on TV, that the government has purchased 26 million doses for Baht 6 billion for AstraZeneca? The mass distribution will start in May 2021, it should also be noted previous an article that the government had signed a contract or agreement to produce their vaccine here in Thailand, how that will affect whether they get more is anyone guess? It also has been noted if the vaccine works not all the population needs to have the vaccine for example I read for the USA Something like 60% of the population really needs to have it?

Funny from the article on TV, it seems they have a grasp on who will get the vaccine first until more is on the way. It was noted the purchase was by the government and that distribution will be free referring to Thais? No mention of those who are retired or reside in Thailand did note that a private hospital can purchase on their own.

What happens is any guess but I think it really depends on how well it works by May and I cross my finger we are talking 90 plus % of this working England the first to be given I take a guess in a month depending on the side effects if a nonfactor numbers start to go down by May there will be many more vaccine out the one many people are looking at is the Johnson and Johnson which only requires one shot.

I think it would be pretty tough for Thailand to still required any of the quarantine or insurance they will just go back to their corrupt ways of obtaining their red envelopes? Business as usual?

My hope was to get vacine in summer and go to Thailand but this news may mean that's not going to happen. Thailand residents would need to be vaccinated.

[URL]https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/healthcare/528619-pfizer-chairman-were-not-sure-if-someone-can-transmit-virus-after[/URL]

[QUOTE=Horatio;2508349]My hope was to get vacine in summer and go to Thailand but this news may mean that's not going to happen. Thailand residents would need to be vaccinated.

[URL]https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/healthcare/528619-pfizer-chairman-were-not-sure-if-someone-can-transmit-virus-after[/URL][/QUOTE]Don't book anything but don't give up hope either. Visa rules about covid seem to change day by day so who knows what they will be in 6 months.

[QUOTE=Allover;2508238] But it seems the girls are primarily Romanian or Bulgarian and they don't appeal to me. I loved it when the girls were Polish, Czech, Hungarian, etc. [/QUOTE]Romanians and Bulgarians. Some are ok and pretty but most are like machines. Limited personality. I dated a Moldavian for a few years when I was younger and wasn't too happy that they became the staple of Germany FKK clubs. A far cry in looks, GFE feel from Hungarian, Polish, Czech, Germans, Estonians, and even some of the Russians back in 2012.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2508343]There is an article today on TV, that the government has purchased 26 million doses for Baht 6 billion for AstraZeneca? [/QUOTE]Interesting that's only 230 baht per dose. Seems rather cheap.

I assume everyone knows that if they say the vaccine is 95% effective it doesn't mean that the vaccine cures 95% of the people who have COVID. It only means that it reduces your chance of getting COVID by 95%.

Thailand has increased the pricing of the Thai Elite Visa from 500,000 to 600,000 baht. Reason is that too many people are applying to Thailand which is a COVID haven.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2508403]
Interesting that's only 230 baht per dose. Seems rather cheap.
[/QUOTE]Pfizer BioNtec vac will be priced around $20 per dose, Moderna about twice that and the Oxford version less than $5. J&J version will be around $10 and the one from Novavax will be around $16.

Seems they overpaid.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2508403]I assume everyone knows that if they say the vaccine is 95% effective it doesn't mean that the vaccine cures 95% of the people who have COVID. It only means that it reduces your chance of getting COVID by 95%.[/QUOTE]This is a critical point. It means that virgin countries like LOS with quarantine measures in place are going to be very reluctant to open their borders even to vaccinated travelers until a significant percentage of their own population has been inoculated. This may postpone travel to Thailand for most of 2021. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

On the subject of store front girls in AMS (I used to lay over in AMS on my way to BKK a lot when there were Martin Air nonstop flites to AMS): the best looking AMS girl I ever had was a Russian (she was a solid 8* but the best service was with a Australian girl and a Dutch girl. I repeated twice with both girls. I also had many Romanian girls and one Thai girl in AMS.

I really used to enjoy walking around the AMS RLD's high on Nederhash (55% thc) joints. That made up for the fact that my AMS storefront sessions were usually not nearly as good as what I was going to get in BKK a few days later. I hear the Dutch are no longer so THC friendly as they once were. Oh well. It is a fond memory I have from back in the day (1996 to 2010).

[QUOTE=Horatio;2508349]My hope was to get vacine in summer and go to Thailand but this news may mean that's not going to happen. Thailand residents would need to be vaccinated.

[URL]https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/healthcare/528619-pfizer-chairman-were-not-sure-if-someone-can-transmit-virus-after[/URL][/QUOTE]Better to get the vaccine, than to not.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2508349]My hope was to get vacine in summer and go to Thailand but this news may mean that's not going to happen. Thailand residents would need to be vaccinated.

[URL]https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/healthcare/528619-pfizer-chairman-were-not-sure-if-someone-can-transmit-virus-after[/URL][/QUOTE]Maybe vaccinated people can transmit, maybe not. At this point that is an unknown. That question will be answered after a good portion of a population has been vaccinated. I doubt there is a practical way to answer that question any sooner. Because of this and other unknowns, the Thai government will have reasons to maintain travel restrictions beyond just certification that tourists have been vaccinated.

[QUOTE=Nixonbd;2508510]Better to get the vaccine, than to not.[/QUOTE]This is how it's going to work once the vaccine becomes widely available: no vaccine certification. No flying on any major airline, no room at any 4 & 5 star hotel, and even many restaurants, shopping malls, and office buildings will choose to deny access to people without proper vaccine certification.

THAILAND WILL REMAIN CLOSED TO TOURISTS UNTIL AT LEAST March NEXT YEAR, ACCORDING TO THE COUNTRY'S TOURISM MINISTER.

The announcement means tourist visas besides the new Tourist Visa (TR) and Special Tourist Visa (STV) will be on hold for now, thwarting hopes of a turnaround in the 2020-2021 season.

[URL]https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/thailand-to-stay-closed-until-at-least-march-next-year/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2508530]THAILAND WILL REMAIN CLOSED TO TOURISTS UNTIL AT LEAST March NEXT YEAR, ACCORDING TO THE COUNTRY'S TOURISM MINISTER.

The announcement means tourist visas besides the new Tourist Visa (TR) and Special Tourist Visa (STV) will be on hold for now, thwarting hopes of a turnaround in the 2020-2021 season.

[URL]https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/thailand-to-stay-closed-until-at-least-march-next-year/[/URL][/QUOTE]You talking 2021?

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2508520]This is how it's going to work once the vaccine becomes widely available: no vaccine certification. No flying on any major airline, no room at any 4 & 5 star hotel, and even many restaurants, shopping malls, and office buildings will choose to deny access to people without proper vaccine certification.[/QUOTE]We learned that lesson in2020, but this glass is a little too half full. Ever hear of money?

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2508520]This is how it's going to work once the vaccine becomes widely available: no vaccine certification. No flying on any major airline, no room at any 4 & 5 star hotel, and even many restaurants, shopping malls, and office buildings will choose to deny access to people without proper vaccine certification.[/QUOTE]I hear China is already working overtime printing vaccination certificates. LOL.

How the vaccines will play into future policy allowing visitors back into Thailand I feel right now nobody knows. I live here so personally I admit to be selfish but also happy with the current zero tolerance policy and if the polling is to be believed so also are most Thais. The recent uproar surrounding the infected working girls sneaking back in from Tachileik presumably to avoid quarantine shows the level of concern of even a handful of infections. That said if they want to get the economy back on tract and the millions suffering hardship back to work they need to change their mindset and use the vaccines as a way to do this. For those missing Thailand hopefully it will happen but if all they do is add vaccination certificates to the already burdensome list of requirements, special visas, quarantine, negative tests, fit to fly certificates, insurance and so on 2021 will sadly look no different than 2020. Just have to wait and see I guess.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2507835]Not sure where that came from. I have dozens of trips to Holland under my belt. As for tourist traps: I never experienced any in the NL, but they likely exist wherever mongering exist. Hazard of the hobby...[/QUOTE]¨This makes me want to put out my top five!!

But I'm not going to do them and rank order; I'm going to explain that you get different experiences at different places. You can't compare a seafood restaurant to a steak restaurant. It depends on what you want to eat that night.

- London. The incall game at divas is expensive and worth it. Plus you get a world class city to spend time.

- Tijuana. It's raunchy and dirty. I would not fly to get here, but if you live in California, it's well worth it. The food and beer scene is amazing. This is like the mongers version of bad tv. It has its place in your life.

- German FKK. It's not the best experience, but it's an experience you have to have. Like a Vegas buffet. You're not mad you did it, but you don't necessarily want to do it all the time.

- Montreal- very attractive European-ish girls for when you can't get to Europe. City is decent.

- Spain. Wide range of girls to choose from, and great cities (barca and Madrid) to enjoy food and culture.

And the sh*t list.

- Amsterdam. Just not a very interesting city, and the monger game is contrived and forced. This is like going to Vegas for culture. ¨.

Vaccine is only expected to work for 3 months and then its not known what will happen after that time. , will there be herd immunity or do you need more jabs is unknown.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2508796]Vaccine is only expected to work for 3 months and then its not known what will happen after that time. , will there be herd immunity or do you need more jabs is unknown.[/QUOTE]I doubt that is the case in fact I would be surprise to hear any medical professional even suggest with the data available with previous data on other vaccines or even flu shots? The progression for the development takes stages (3?) that takes months in this case (warp speed) in past cases years and requires thousand being tested during these stages after development they don't just forget these people they are required to be constantly tested in stages for the next two year which I believe is the case now if the current vaccine just developed only expected to work 3 months I believe that information would be clearly out by now.

I believe recently there was an interview with Dr. Faci, a very similar question was asked " how long " certainly there was no indication that it is expected to work only 3 months although his answer was vague for me I came away 10-12 months depending on the individuals and past history might be even longer time will only tell but 3 months?

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2508796]Vaccine is only expected to work for 3 months and then its not known what will happen after that time. , will there be herd immunity or do you need more jabs is unknown.[/QUOTE]You are so full of it. Don't spread fake news, please. They do not know 10% of total knowledge. Can it be spread from those with vaccine or not? No one knows that and a 100 other questions.

What pisses me off is after the elderly, health care workers, and first responders, who should get in line next. The f'ing liberal have a plan to reward those whose poor behavior has put the world in this situation. This is not an ethnically transmitted virus, so race color, or creed should not be part of the equation.

If vaccine is only effective for three months no one would get it. If it's only good for three months and a person can still spread disease it's a totally worthless vaccine for most. And most Americans would refuse to take it. It would be seen as only for money and would push conspiracy theories.

[QUOTE=TConor;2508924]You are so full of it. Don't spread fake news, please. They do not know 10% of total knowledge. Can it be spread from those with vaccine or not? No one knows that and a 100 other questions.

What pisses me off is after the elderly, health care workers, and first responders, who should get in line next. The f'ing liberal have a plan to reward those whose poor behavior has put the world in this situation. This is not an ethnically transmitted virus, so race color, or creed should not be part of the equation.[/QUOTE]

I just met a tourist on the new or latest requirements last night in Nana Plaza, the first I have met since the lockdowns and tentative reopenings.

From the USA. About 30-35 years old I'd say. He said this was his first night of freedom after being released from the 14 day hotel quaratine that he spent in a hotel near Victory Monument and could I recommend any of these go-go bars. LOL.

I really didn't have time to chat much beyond the info I am sharing here now since I was on my way out of Nana Plaza as he was just arriving around 9pm. Just passing it along.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2508937]If vaccine is only effective for three months no one would get it. [/QUOTE]Don't speak for everyone else.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2508937]If it's only good for three months and a person can still spread disease it's a totally worthless vaccine for most. And most Americans would refuse to take it. It would be seen as only for money and would push conspiracy theories.[/QUOTE]Why do you want to start a conspiracy theory here?

For one noone knows how long it'll be effective, nor how often it'll require a dose and how much of a dose to repeat its validity.
While for most coronavirus, antibodies usually remain detectable 3 months after contagion it doesn't mean it will be the case for vaccination.
Most of all, you have to keep in mind that lack of antibody detection does not mean you're not immune as when exposed again to the virus, your body will have remembered this virus and will have a fast response of generating new antibodies in mass.

If we find out the vaccine only protects its hosts and does not prevent spreading it to others, it does not make the vaccine worthless.
It just means the vaccine will have to be given to old people and younger people with a side condition (over weight, diabetes, etc.) as it will lower their risk from developping a deadly or damaging version of the covid.

That is surelly not worthless since it means people get to live a normal life without seeing 2 to 3000 dead per day as the US currently faces.

[QUOTE=TConor;2508924]You are so full of it. Don't spread fake news, please. They do not know 10% of total knowledge. Can it be spread from those with vaccine or not? No one knows that and a 100 other questions.

What pisses me off is after the elderly, health care workers, and first responders, who should get in line next. The f'ing liberal have a plan to reward those whose poor behavior has put the world in this situation. This is not an ethnically transmitted virus, so race color, or creed should not be part of the equation.[/QUOTE]This 3 month efficacy is most likely being peddled by the anti-vaxers and can be filed alongside the conspiracy that Bill Gates wants to use vaccines to implant microchips in people. Back in the real world as I understand it the vaccine does not stop you from becoming infected. What it does is 95% of the time prevent the virus from spreading and becoming a disease so for me the real question becomes whether a vaccinated person who contracts covid can still be a transmitter. If essentially a vaccine only protects the person vaccinated it means a vaccination certificate is not a free pass and presumably visitors would still need an accompanying recent negative test. Hopefully the data will eventually show vaccinated persons cannot transmit the virus and are safe to travel freely. That would indeed be a game changer. At the end of the day It may be that in order to get back to some semblance of normality the answer lies in inoculating a sufficient number of people generally understood to be 70% of the population to get to herd immunity which would then be sufficient to accept a level of infection that can be effectively treated and contained.

[URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

Coronavirus vaccine may only give people immunity for 90 days, say scientists.

The government's scientific advisors have suggested immunity may last 90 days, however in a study they explained a high proportion of people are likely to get immunity.

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.

Research conducted by the government's scientific advisors suggests vaccine immunity is not fully understood.

In a paper published by the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group, experts say the duration of "natural or vaccine induced immunity is not yet fully understood".

[QUOTE=TConor;2508924]You are so full of it. Don't spread fake news, please. They do not know 10% of total knowledge. Can it be spread from those with vaccine or not? No one knows that and a 100 other questions.

What pisses me off is after the elderly, health care workers, and first responders, who should get in line next. The f'ing liberal have a plan to reward those whose poor behavior has put the world in this situation. This is not an ethnically transmitted virus, so race color, or creed should not be part of the equation.[/QUOTE]
[URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2509095][URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.[/QUOTE]Wow, 90 days, kool the virus has a calendar and know how to keep time and so convenient that it is a nice round number. Are you sure it is not 3 months? Oh! But then not all months have 30 days.

[URL]https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/us-vaccine-chief-thinks-covid-19-shots-will-long-lasting-effect-13712990[/URL]

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2509094][URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

Coronavirus vaccine may only give people immunity for 90 days, say scientists.

The government's scientific advisors have suggested immunity may last 90 days, however in a study they explained a high proportion of people are likely to get immunity.

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.

Research conducted by the government's scientific advisors suggests vaccine immunity is not fully understood.

In a paper published by the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group, experts say the duration of "natural or vaccine induced immunity is not yet fully understood".[/QUOTE]I think you should go back and read the article carefully again.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2509095][URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.[/QUOTE]As someone who works in the field, that tabloid headline is not technically false, but very misleading.

They're saying it provides immunity for 90 days because 90 days of data is all they have. Researchers cover their asses when speaking to the media, so they won't say the vaccine provides immunity beyond what the current data tells them. Expect the length of immunity to go up as time drags on and they get more data on its efficiency.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2509094][URL]https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/coronavirus-vaccine-give-people-immunity-23118841[/URL]

Coronavirus vaccine may only give people immunity for 90 days, say scientists.

The government's scientific advisors have suggested immunity may last 90 days, however in a study they explained a high proportion of people are likely to get immunity.

The coronavirus vaccine may give people immunity from the bug for 90 days, according to scientists.

Research conducted by the government's scientific advisors suggests vaccine immunity is not fully understood.

In a paper published by the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group, experts say the duration of "natural or vaccine induced immunity is not yet fully understood".[/QUOTE]Yup got to be true, I read it in that most credible of UK tabloids the Daily Star.

This report continues from a post I made on the Bangkok Thread.

As I noted I've known this Thai woman for a long time in our meeting in Bangkok it was agreed I would give her my old cell phone it was checked by the shop and all green lights were given. Even my brother's kids play with it while I was visiting, the night before I checked it again before placing it in the box and into my backpack. When I saw her the next day I pulled it out of the box and put the battery, turn it on and went through all the features then change the language to Thai. It all went back into the box since she didn't have her True sim card didn't notice it then because I'm not very techno about phones I was wondering why when putting in the battery then putting the cover on it didn't seem to fit the same not very tight? She told me if necessary she would put a rubber band over the phone she was just grateful to have a phone now basically something was better than nothing having to borrow her friend's phone not being able to talk to her sons etc.

The next morning she got up early took a shower put the phone in her purse I got her a taxi to Mo-Chit to try to catch the first van out to her village I felt bad didn't know it was a 4 plus hour ride since the van stops and pick up and drop off riders throughout her trip. As noted in my Bangkok post since she got into the taxi I felt something come over me like a rain cloud something just didn't feel right. Hours later when I didn't hear from her I started to worry but I just wrote it off as me being paranoid? Days went by I didn't hear anything, not like her when I tried her friends' phone there was no answer but her friend would see my number and tell her I called thereafter I get a callback but this time nothing. By now 5 days have gone by but I just figure Thai style but I was hoping for the best inside?

Now it is Sunday, Dec 6th, I was having my usual morning coffee with my ex-pat group next thing I get a translated message on my phone asking me if I was a friend of his mother. I responded back and the next message shocks me to the core and I'm not easily shocked? The message " my mother has been in the hospital for 4 days the phone I gave her the battery exploded in her face " of course the thing that crosses my mind and when I told my coffee buddies all said " scam " I wasn't born yesterday I've known this girl for 10 years although she was a hardened BG she has never shown that kind of behavior or side of her to scam me. Back and forth the messages finally the son tries to call me but my limited Thai we weren't connecting it was actually better although slower to use their translation program which I thought wasn't bad. Basically, although she is under the government health care program this particular procedure wasn't she was scarred badly and possibly blind she needed an operation for both the cost was 80,000 baht. Although shocked and very concerned I was thinking of money naturally so I turn to a few guys who I knew were Thai but raised in the States and spoke Thai and English well.

Back and forth with the son in the end the son wasn't asking me for 80,000 nor blaming me directly and I was liable that they needed 80,000 for the operation he and his brother could raise only 68,000 their backs were up against the wall the friend mentioned me and my number was on her phone that I might be able to help out with the rest there is no doubt also that I gave her the phone. It just happened that the call was made on my Thai friend I-Pad which was a video that enables me to verify that it wasn't some scam the son even ask the Doctor to speak to us. No matter what I wasn't going to make a bad situation into a pissing contest by asking more questions if it was a scam I told the son I would gladly cover the difference. I placed the amount into her mother's account and they proceeded with the necessary operation. Right now the last message I got her mother is badly scarred and her eyesight might never return if lucky 50%.

Her mother after the operation is heavily sedated and very upset wishes to die doesn't understand why so many bad things happen to her? The last year her mothers pass away in July she gets into a bad motorbike operation hospitalized for a broken arm that required pins and months of rehab just when things were getting better and the rainy season over with the flooding in her village over she was starting to be able to sell her second-hand clothes out of the trunk of her old car now this! The latest message from the son was to thank me for the money adding he felt this was his fault if he had only purchased a phone for his mother this wouldn't have happened to her.

I've met the two of the son when they were young they are good kids I responded it is no one fault how does anyone know this would happen. It was checked several times I wonder if it had gone off when my brother's kids were playing with it or even when we were together in Bangkok in the room it had gone off?

GUILTY FEEL LIKE SHIT!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2509696].....I responded back and the next message shocks me to the core and I'm not easily shocked? The message " my mother has been in the hospital for 4 days the phone I gave her the battery exploded in her face " of course the thing that crosses my mind and when I told my coffee buddies all said " scam " .......[/QUOTE]To my instincts the very first thing I would have done before anything else would have been to go see her.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2509246]Yup got to be true, I read it in that most credible of UK tabloids the Daily Star.[/QUOTE]Sir Patrick Vallance warns Brits could still be wearing face masks next winter because it will 'take quite a long time' to vaccinate everyone and jabs might not stop the virus spreading.

The chief scientific adviser said people must still follow social distancing rules.

No proof that vaccination will stop people transmitting the coronavirus.

Studies have only proven so far that jabs can prevent Covid-19 disease.

Britain today became the first country in the world to vaccinate citizens.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9030263/Brits-wearing-face-masks-winter-Patrick-Vallance-warns.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2509696]I responded back and the next message shocks me to the core and I'm not easily shocked? The message " my mother has been in the hospital for 4 days the phone I gave her the battery exploded in her face "[/QUOTE]Wow. That is fucked up. I used to always have those thoughts when I would buy the Chinese batteries off ebay for Samsung. They seemed to be thicker than the original. I was thinking those mfs may overheat and explode or whatever. Are there any phones these days that you can remove the battery without the proper tools and know-how? Maybe they no longer make them that way for this very reason.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2509696]GUILTY FEEL LIKE SHIT![/QUOTE]

It's a shitty situation, and anybody would feel like shit, but you're not guilty of anything. No more guilty than someone who gifted a car in which someone proceeded to have an accident due to a mechanical problem. If anything, it's the shop that should have spotted the problem, if you paid them to check it. Shit happens, and it's rather nasty shit in this case, but certainly not your fault.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2509790]Wow. That is fucked up. I used to always have those thoughts when I would buy the Chinese batteries off ebay for Samsung. They seemed to be thicker than the original. I was thinking those mfs may overheat and explode or whatever. Are there any phones these days that you can remove the battery without the proper tools and know-how? Maybe they no longer make them that way for this very reason.[/QUOTE]It may have been a cheap charger without the intelligence shut off features. Without the shut off feature on the cp or charger the battery keeps charging and will overheat. The overheating will cause the battery to expand and quite possibly explode.

I have seen many expanded cp batteries from cheaper cp chargers. Once the battery is bloated it is best to throw it away.

Other thing to be aware of is to not mismatch chargers with the cp. Most cp will charge at 1 amp. The Samsung charger will charge at 2.0+ amp. Using a Samsung charger on another cp can overheat the battery. If your cp feels warm or hot from charging then you are using the wrong charger.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2509696]GUILTY FEEL LIKE SHIT![/QUOTE]LBM,

It is only natural to feel real bad about what happened to your friend. But you are not guilty of anything. In fact you stood tall and helped the family out in their time of real need. The guilty people are management of the company that manufactures & sells such dangerous products. You can bet your last baht that this was not the first time their product malfunctioned, exploded and hurt someone.

I have a long time American female friend that was a front seat passenger in an auto accident. Some asshole ran a stop sign and plowed into her side of the vehicle she was riding in. She suffered internal injuries. After 3 operations she is still not completely well. Shit happens to good people!

I hope your friend fully recovers.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2509810]
Other thing to be aware of is to not mismatch chargers with the cp. Most cp will charge at 1 amp. The Samsung charger will charge at 2.0+ amp. Using a Samsung charger on another cp can overheat the battery.[/QUOTE]Many Samsung phones now have a rapid charge feature which increases the charge voltage from 5 v to 9 v. Over voltage on a li-ion battery is far more dangerous than over current as it can lead to a thermal run away. This is not too hard to imagine in a faulty or knockoff old phone / charger.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2509810]If your cp feels warm or hot from charging then you are using the wrong charger.[/QUOTE]Or there could be something wrong with your device or the device's battery. About a year ago that is what happened to my very old iPad Mini (original version). It got very hot to the touch while charging and then it wouldn't boot. The charger was fine and was subsequently used on multiple devices.

In any case, if your cell phone gets hot while charging, unplug it and investigate the problem without holding it to your face.

I remember seeing horror stories in Thai news of people sleeping with their phone beside their head while it's being charged, then the phone explodes or catches fire killing the victim. This was not a one time incident. I never charge my phone in a 220V socket and leave it near me.

I bought an extra battery at Tukcom. Charged it a couple times and it was fine. Then one time it was super hot. Threw the battery away. Buy OEM guys.

Seems STV will be available in any countries.

[URL]https://www.posttoday.com/economy/news/639819?fbclid=IwAR2bkLsCk2ThN_HmlbKT1NQGBKUWmtSOvEAHWMC87zIBXDwTvopenu9pOlM[/URL]

[QUOTE=ChristianG;2509977]Seems STV will be available in any countries.

[URL]https://www.posttoday.com/economy/news/639819?fbclid=IwAR2bkLsCk2ThN_HmlbKT1NQGBKUWmtSOvEAHWMC87zIBXDwTvopenu9pOlM[/URL][/QUOTE]I read the headline this morning and thought at last some sanity.

I continued reading, oh oh yes it broadens the STV from the original list of 24 for all countries but does nothing to ease the requirements for the visa itself.

Now the old list included among others China, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Finland and Norway which one might imagine had enough population to attract a reasonable number of visitors. How many came. Total 825.

So with the conditions to obtain and comply with the terms of the visa unchanged what makes them think there will now be tens or hundreds of thousands arriving from the countries added to the list.

What am I not getting?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2509999]I read the headline this morning and thought at last some sanity.

I continued reading, oh oh yes it broadens the STV from the original list of 24 for all countries but does nothing to ease the requirements for the visa itself.

Now the old list included among others China, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vietnam, Finland and Norway which one might imagine had enough population to attract a reasonable number of visitors. How many came. Total 825.

So with the conditions to obtain and comply with the terms of the visa unchanged what makes them think there will now be tens or hundreds of thousands arriving from the countries added to the list.

What am I not getting?[/QUOTE]There wont be tens of thousands. Maybe double the number of tourists. They cant expect anything better.

Very few people will agree to 14 day quarantine. The other requirements are reasonable, but pains in the ass. Being open to all nations will help, but not enough to restart the tourist economy.

I would agree to do a 2 or 3 days quarantine. No more than that.

Last night a friend of mine in Chiang Mai told me that COVID is starting to spread in Thailand. I asked how many and she said 19. I dont know if that is daily cases or total active, maybe Chiang Mai, maybe all of Thailand. In any case it is more than it had been and can’t be ignored.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2510051]There wont be tens of thousands. Maybe double the number of tourists. They cant expect anything better.

Very few people will agree to 14 day quarantine. The other requirements are reasonable, but pains in the ass. Being open to all nations will help, but not enough to restart the tourist economy.

I would agree to do a 2 or 3 days quarantine. No more than that.

Last night a friend of mine in Chiang Mai told me that COVID is starting to spread in Thailand. I asked how many and she said 19. I dont know if that is daily cases or total active, maybe Chiang Mai, maybe all of Thailand. In any case it is more than it had been and cant be ignored.[/QUOTE]While people from somewhat safe other asian countries will hesitate going to thainland due to double quarantine, I'd say people from affected regions can actually see 2 weeks quarantine as a better outcome compared to weeks of curfew or lockdown. After 2 weeks you get to enjoy full freedom in a less exposed country than where you're coming from. So for retired people, people working from home whom don't need to be physically in their home country, I'd see it as a good option.
I saw several quarantine hotels full till end January when I was checking last week too.

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2510093]I'd say people from affected regions can actually see 2 weeks quarantine as a better outcome compared to weeks of curfew or lockdown. After 2 weeks you get to enjoy full freedom in a less exposed country than where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]Negative. I was in Thailand for the curfew. What really did I need to do after 9,10,or 11 pm? Not a damn thing. I am usually in bed at 10 anyway. Compare that to 2 weeks in quarantine, which is basically jail. I am not trying to be cooped up in a room or compound for 2 weeks all by myself or with nobody else for that matter buddy.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2509928]I remember seeing horror stories in Thai news of people sleeping with their phone beside their head while it's being charged, then the phone explodes or catches fire killing the victim. This was not a one time incident. I never charge my phone in a 220V socket and leave it near me.

I bought an extra battery at Tukcom. Charged it a couple times and it was fine. Then one time it was super hot. Threw the battery away. Buy OEM guys.[/QUOTE]Yes, I recall reading an article, which I think was in PattayaOne News of a young guy, maybe a teen, who was charging his phone while he sleeping in his bed. The phone exploded and killed him. I believe that this story was posted a few months ago. I was surprised to see something like this could happen. In Europe or the USA, this type of accident would be completely unacceptable to the general public but TIT.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2510109]Negative. I was in Thailand for the curfew. What really did I need to do after 9,10,or 11 pm? Not a damn thing. I am usually in bed at 10 anyway. Compare that to 2 weeks in quarantine, which is basically jail. I am not trying to be cooped up in a room or compound for 2 weeks all by myself or with nobody else for that matter buddy.[/QUOTE]Ditto to the nix on the quarantine. I'm heading back to the USA next month and I'll get jabbed and head on back to SE Asia when it opens up without quarantines. If that doesn't happen by next Fall, well there will be plenty of other warm destinations that won't quarantine ya.

Let's be clear that APPLY does not mean ACCEPTED.

Why not let everyone apply? Doesn't hurt Thailand at all. Who gets in will be another story. Leave your yacht at home guys. Only 6 boats are allowed to enter Thailand, including yachts.

14 day quarantine is no big deal. Aren't many of us basically under a 14 day quarantine in our home country anyways? Personally I'd rather get a reward at the end of my 14 day quarantine than the semi lockdown I have in my home country for the foreseeable future.

Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?

Has anyone here actually applied for any type of Visa for Thailand since COVID began?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510283]Let's be clear that APPLY does not mean ACCEPTED.

Why not let everyone apply? Doesn't hurt Thailand at all. Who gets in will be another story. Leave your yacht at home guys. Only 6 boats are allowed to enter Thailand, including yachts.

14 day quarantine is no big deal. Aren't many of us basically under a 14 day quarantine in our home country anyways? Personally I'd rather get a reward at the end of my 14 day quarantine than the semi lockdown I have in my home country for the foreseeable future.

Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?

Has anyone here actually applied for any type of Visa for Thailand since COVID began?[/QUOTE]Life in quarantine depends on where you quarantine in other words the quality of the hotel. Am acquaintance of mine on a work permit recently stayed at the BDMS wellness center on Wireless Road and found it painless enough. His company paid roughly 80000 for the 14 days which included testing, 5 star accommodation and service, all meals with good food and lots of massages. Some other therapies such as yoga and meditation classes were available. The first few days while waiting for the test result meant confinement to his room but after the negative result he was allowed not unlimited but greater freedom to move around. Lower valued packages at some other approved hotels I read are less pleasant but as with a lot in life you get what you pay for. The whole process was handled by an agent here in Bangkok.

I agree with your comment even if you check all the boxes applying does not mean getting. It seems some embassies in the same way some immigration offices here treat applications differently.

Overall I guess extending the STV to all countries is a step in the right direction and we will have to wait and see how a certificate of vaccination might change requirements such as cutting out the $100,000 insurance.

[URL]https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/[/URL]

Planes from Amsterdam, Tokyo, HK, Manila, Indonesia, some other places. Maybe if you refresh the link, other flights will show up.

Many cancelled flights, I imagine. Guess you might have to develop some social skills in these asocial times. Thailand and similar places are off the menu until at least summer 2021. Mongers wanting to shoot their load are not a priority.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510283]Let's be clear that APPLY does not mean ACCEPTED.

Why not let everyone apply? Doesn't hurt Thailand at all. Who gets in will be another story. Leave your yacht at home guys. Only 6 boats are allowed to enter Thailand, including yachts.

14 day quarantine is no big deal. Aren't many of us basically under a 14 day quarantine in our home country anyways? Personally I'd rather get a reward at the end of my 14 day quarantine than the semi lockdown I have in my home country for the foreseeable future.

Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?

Has anyone here actually applied for any type of Visa for Thailand since COVID began?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510283]Let's be clear that APPLY does not mean ACCEPTED.

Why not let everyone apply? Doesn't hurt Thailand at all. Who gets in will be another story. Leave your yacht at home guys. Only 6 boats are allowed to enter Thailand, including yachts.

14 day quarantine is no big deal. Aren't many of us basically under a 14 day quarantine in our home country anyways? Personally I'd rather get a reward at the end of my 14 day quarantine than the semi lockdown I have in my home country for the foreseeable future.

Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?

Has anyone here actually applied for any type of Visa for Thailand since COVID began?[/QUOTE]Not sure this helps? But two of these cases I will be the first to admit age might have caught up with them I think you will understand what I'm getting at?

I drink coffee with a guy who left in March he was supposed to be gone a month he is still in Boston. Based on his Line message he has tried a number of times he said the list is long and confusing to follow? He went to the airport mid-November and got turn back next line message said it will be Christmas after he gets his shot? You get the idea here?

3rd hand, again guy not the sharpest tool in the shed? He has a Thai wife only speaks English, started in late July still not here. They contacted the Thai Embassy in L. A. Never got a reply finally they got lead to the right track contact an Embassy back East coast. Said much of the information was confusing one day it was this next something else and she was talking to a Thai representative on the phone in Thai. She for whatever reason booked a flight on Eva her normal airline of choice for Dec 5th, in the end, the Embassy contacted her and said you can only go on this airline which is Korean with a long layover and they have scheduled her for Dec 23rd so I will know then?

Today, at my brother's house he lives in a project a Thai ladies run the complex speak great English married to a German goes back and forth she has been gone since May? She has been out of quarantine for 5 days once I heard I put my mask on she startd to laugh. She said even for a Thai national she went through hell to get back said the list is extension and confusing even for her charge her a arm and a leg for testing and quarantine. She said " don't leave "!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2510356]Not sure this helps? But two of these cases I will be the first to admit age might have caught up with them I think you will understand what I'm getting at?

I drink coffee with a guy who left in March he was supposed to be gone a month he is still in Boston. Based on his Line message he has tried a number of times he said the list is long and confusing to follow? He went to the airport mid-November and got turn back next line message said it will be Christmas after he gets his shot? You get the idea here?

3rd hand, again guy not the sharpest tool in the shed? He has a Thai wife only speaks English, started in late July still not here. They contacted the Thai Embassy in L. A. Never got a reply finally they got lead to the right track contact an Embassy back East coast. Said much of the information was confusing one day it was this next something else and she was talking to a Thai representative on the phone in Thai. She for whatever reason booked a flight on Eva her normal airline of choice for Dec 5th, in the end, the Embassy contacted her and said you can only go on this airline which is Korean with a long layover and they have scheduled her for Dec 23rd so I will know then?

Today, at my brother's house he lives in a project a Thai ladies run the complex speak great English married to a German goes back and forth she has been gone since May? She has been out of quarantine for 5 days once I heard I put my mask on she startd to laugh. She said even for a Thai national she went through hell to get back said the list is extension and confusing even for her charge her a arm and a leg for testing and quarantine. She said " don't leave "![/QUOTE]Thai embassies worldwide are basically stand alone, and have always made up their own rules about visas. With all the requirements the past couple months I'm betting its gotten a lot worse and led to some embassies trying to get $ for getting people approved and others who deny everyone so they don't have to do any work.

[QUOTE=IHeartIpa;2510359]Thai embassies worldwide are basically stand alone, and have always made up their own rules about visas. With all the requirements the past couple months I'm betting its gotten a lot worse and led to some embassies trying to get $ for getting people approved and others who deny everyone so they don't have to do any work.[/QUOTE]Even the embassy in Washington DC does things differently than the consulate in Chicago. Just getting 60 day visas in December 2019 was a different experience for me and one of my buddies. They also change their policies without quickly updating their web pages.

That was back in normal times. I can only imagine how different it will be for the next many months.

Come back guys, the economy needs the support of tourists 😊.

[URL]https://sea.mashable.com/culture/13554/thailand-is-opening-its-borders-to-everyone-regardless-of-their-countrys-covid-situation[/URL]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2510621]Come back guys, the economy needs the support of tourists 😊.

[URL]https://sea.mashable.com/culture/13554/thailand-is-opening-its-borders-to-everyone-regardless-of-their-countrys-covid-situation[/URL][/QUOTE]Good to see you back.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2510331][URL]https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/[/URL]

Planes from Amsterdam, Tokyo, HK, Manila, Indonesia, some other places. Maybe if you refresh the link, other flights will show up.

Many cancelled flights, I imagine. [/QUOTE]Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if you are from the USA you can only catch a connecting flight from the above listed countries if you are allowed entry in to those countries. I'm not sure about PI but I'm pretty sure Americans are not allowed to fly in to Japan, HK, Indo, etc.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2510301]we will have to wait and see how a certificate of vaccination might change requirements such as cutting out the $100,000 insurance.[/QUOTE]

A few airlines are starting to include COVID insurance if you fly with them. Cathay as an example offers 200k USD COVID insurance through AXA.

Got excited when I saw the news below but there is still a 14 days mandatory quarantine at designated hotels so unlikely to be many taking up that except retirees with lots of time and the intention of staying in Thailand a few months. For me I am a few days trip type. Wait till vaccine roll out and relaxed restrictions. Now if they really want to boost tourism and they offered quarantine in a suite of a hotel with 5 girls of your choice then I think they might see tourist numbers shoot up.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510636]Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if you are from the USA you can only catch a connecting flight from the above listed countries if you are allowed entry in to those countries. I'm not sure about PI but I'm pretty sure Americans are not allowed to fly in to Japan, HK, Indo, etc.[/QUOTE]You do not have to be allowed entry in order to catch a connecting flight.

Note that foreigners (from the countries and regions where the entry bans do not apply) [B]are not denied to enter Japan when they arrive in Japan[/B] via any of the following 152 countries or regions, which are subject to denial of permission to entry, [B]for refueling or transit purpose[/B]. Those who entered those countries or regions will, however, be subject to the entry ban.

[URL]https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/fna/page4e_001053.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2510632]Good to see you back.[/QUOTE]Thank you and likewise 😊.

Good to be back. So much I have to re-learn LOL.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2510331][URL]https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/https://www.bangkokairportonline.com/flight-status-arrivals-departures/[/URL][/QUOTE]All,

Be very wary of using the airport arrivals as a guide to which airlines you can travel to Thailand on. The flights may be arriving but that doesn't mean that they are carrying passengers. A number of airlines (notably Qatar, KLM and Swiss) have been operating into and out of BKK pretty much throughout but not for passengers. I'm guessing mainly for freight inbound to Bkk and both freight and passengers outbound.

The link on the Thai Embassy Washington DC site for the list of approved "semi-commercial" (whatever that means) flights to Swampy seems to have broken, but via the Thai Embassy Kazakhstan site it appears at [URL]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijBJOTgFJPAuWUfkPIA60iniXB9j9Ba2XHafXzA6JCw/edit#gid=686263740[/URL] (says last updated 7 December).

On a side note the Thai hot air factory (Ministry of Tourism / TAT) has floated a proposal that the duration of the Visa Waiver be extended from 30 to 45 days from September next year. Note Visa Waiver is what most short term visitors from Europe, North America, Australia and NZ travel on. It is sometimes referred to as a "Visa on Arrival" but that is actually a different species for visitors from China, India, etc.

There would be, I imagine, in some of those planes, a small number of passengers, Thais who managed to get repatriated, key officials etc. But few of them are Nana Plaza bound. Mongers are so far down the list we are not on the list. Thai muff, for the foreseeable future, is off the menu, for me, maybe forever as I am not taking any half cooked vaccine.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2511221]All,

Be very wary of using the airport arrivals as a guide to which airlines you can travel to Thailand on. The flights may be arriving but that doesn't mean that they are carrying passengers. A number of airlines (notably Qatar, KLM and Swiss) have been operating into and out of BKK pretty much throughout but not for passengers. I'm guessing mainly for freight inbound to Bkk and both freight and passengers outbound.

The link on the Thai Embassy Washington DC site for the list of approved "semi-commercial" (whatever that means) flights to Swampy seems to have broken, but via the Thai Embassy Kazakhstan site it appears at [URL]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijBJOTgFJPAuWUfkPIA60iniXB9j9Ba2XHafXzA6JCw/edit#gid=686263740[/URL] (says last updated 7 December).

On a side note the Thai hot air factory (Ministry of Tourism / TAT) has floated a proposal that the duration of the Visa Waiver be extended from 30 to 45 days from September next year. Note Visa Waiver is what most short term visitors from Europe, North America, Australia and NZ travel on. It is sometimes referred to as a "Visa on Arrival" but that is actually a different species for visitors from China, India, etc.[/QUOTE]

COVID vaccine roll-out could take months to curb spread of virus says PROF Karol Sikora.

So today is the day. A Covid-19 vaccine is being rolled out across the country and by the time you're reading this, thousands and thousands of people will have already received their first dose.

[URL]https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1369681/vaccine-roll-out-coronavirus-spread-virus[/URL]

And every country has differing roll out dates over years and some have no roll out dates at all.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510283]Let's be clear that APPLY does not mean ACCEPTED.

Why not let everyone apply? Doesn't hurt Thailand at all. Who gets in will be another story. Leave your yacht at home guys. Only 6 boats are allowed to enter Thailand, including yachts.

14 day quarantine is no big deal. Aren't many of us basically under a 14 day quarantine in our home country anyways? Personally I'd rather get a reward at the end of my 14 day quarantine than the semi lockdown I have in my home country for the foreseeable future.

Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?

Has anyone here actually applied for any type of Visa for Thailand since COVID began?[/QUOTE]For the STV, I know that you have to pre pay for your Q but it reads like you have to choose your hotel and pre-pay for the whole stay. Your thoughts?

I am curious about the costs of flights. I'd be going from USA.

All,

There are Provincial Administration Office (PAO) elections this Sunday, 20th December which probably means no alcohol sales.

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2020/12/13/local-elections-are-this-upcoming-weekend-in-thailand-and-a-booze-sales-ban-is-nearly-certain/[/URL]

The article above says that entertainment businesses in Pattaya have been told unofficially at this stage that they will have to close from early evening on Saturday until after the polls close at 5 pm Sunday. It is unclear whether this will apply to Bangkok which has no PAO but is run by the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (BMA), elections for which are not taking place.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2510283]Let's say you are accepted for a STV. Has anyone from France/Belgium or the USA looked in to what current flight options there are to fly to Bangkok?[/QUOTE]For France / Belgium options would involve travelling via another country e. G. Amsterdam (KLM or Eva), Frankfurt (Lufthansa or allegedly Thai), Zurich (Swiss), Doha (Qatar), Dubai (Emirates), Abu Dhabi (Etihad).

[QUOTE=BayView;2511488]I am curious about the costs of flights. I'd be going from USA.[/QUOTE]Emirates quote around USD 1,000 - 1,100 for NY JFK-DXB-BKK (25 hours including 6 hour layover in Dubai) return for outbound mid-January, return late March. Other options from the east coast would be Qatar (via Doha) or connecting at one of the European hubs listed in my response of BB.

West coast options would take some work to find connections on [URL]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijBJOTgFJPAuWUfkPIA60iniXB9j9Ba2XHafXzA6JCw/edit[/URL]#gid=686263740. Options might be via Taiwan (although there is a maximum layover of 8 hours), Hong Kong, Seoul. Possibly Singapore or Tokyo-Narita (although I'm not sure how reliable Thai Airways flight schedules are and the flight may be reserved for "returnees". Be aware you almost certainly need to be thru-ticketed I. E. Just transit not actually going through passport control to check in for the next flight.

[QUOTE=BayView;2511488]For the STV, I know that you have to pre pay for your Q but it reads like you have to choose your hotel and pre-pay for the whole stay. Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]Things may have changed by now but last I read it was from a list of select government approved hotels and you end up paying more than normal for the hotel. You can Google if you really want to know which hotels are approved but I'm sure that will all change by the time you will be allowed in.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2511509]Things may have changed by now but last I read it was from a list of select government approved hotels and you end up paying more than normal for the hotel. You can Google if you really want to know which hotels are approved but I'm sure that will all change by the time you will be allowed in.[/QUOTE]I have not done any research on it myself but the guy I met very briefly in Nana Plaza from the USA who had just finished his 14 day quarantine on arrival in Bangkok said he stayed in the Princeton (Downtown?) Bangkok Hotel near Victory Monument and his total cost was $1,000 USD/30,000 THB, including all tests, food, whatever. He said after the first 7 days he was allowed to roam around outdoors on the hotel property, around the pool area and such, for 40 minutes per day.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2511567]I have not done any research on it myself but the guy I met very briefly in Nana Plaza from the USA who had just finished his 14 day quarantine on arrival in Bangkok said he stayed in the Princeton (Downtown?) Bangkok Hotel near Victory Monument and his total cost was $1,000 USD/30,000 THB, including all tests, food, whatever. He said after the first 7 days he was allowed to roam around outdoors on the hotel property, around the pool area and such, for 40 minutes per day.[/QUOTE]This might have been posted before but here it is again.

List of Thailand government approved quarantine hotels.

[URL]https://thaiest.com/blog/list-of-alternative-state-quarantine-asq-hotels-thailand[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2511567]I have not done any research on it myself but the guy I met very briefly in Nana Plaza from the USA who had just finished his 14 day quarantine on arrival in Bangkok said he stayed in the Princeton (Downtown?) Bangkok Hotel near Victory Monument and his total cost was $1,000 USD/30,000 THB, including all tests, food, whatever. He said after the first 7 days he was allowed to roam around outdoors on the hotel property, around the pool area and such, for 40 minutes per day.[/QUOTE]I'm not asking about the paying for the quarantine hotel. From what I've read, you need to pre-pay for the hotels after quarantine. Do you have to give them an itinerary? I'm sure that your application would be denied if you told them that you want to spend your time in Pattaya. Not really finding any information on the process. I'm thinking that it's probably best to wait for the vaccine before traveling.

[QUOTE=BayView;2511841]... Do you have to give them an itinerary? I'm sure that your application would be denied if you told them that you want to spend your time in Pattaya. Not really finding any information on the process. I'm thinking that it's probably best to wait for the vaccine before traveling.[/QUOTE]I would be surprised if an application was denied because you listed a post-quarantine hotel and destination in Pattaya on an itinerary as though saying so is no different than telling them you intend to stay full time in "a brothel."

Sure, they know why many if not most single men travelers are ultimately booked in a hotel on Walking Street in Pattaya or on Sukhumvit Soi 4 in Bangkok instead of a quiet little hotel in Ayutthaya or even a hotel in On Nut. But I don't think they'll need to know in advance what you'll be up to on an hour by hour basis while you are here.

Does anyone else know? Aren't the usual "To visit friends", "To visit historic sites", "To tour the country" or "To research business opportunities" acceptable on these itineraries as they have been in the past?

[QUOTE=BayView;2511841]From what I've read, you need to pre-pay for the hotels after quarantine. Do you have to give them an itinerary?[/QUOTE]You may need to tell the authorities where you will be staying after you leave quarantine depending your visa but it is not necessary to prepay just make sure that you have hotels booked for your stay and report them but I would expect that this would be an ordinary reservation so you would not need to pay up front.

Hotels have a legal obligation to inform Immigration that you are staying there. Thai Immigration will always know where you are. This even applies to a ST hotel but I'm guessing ST hotels don't do it. One of the reasons Thailand is against AirBNB because an AirBNB owner is not going to go to the Immigration office to file a TM30 for someone staying at their condo for 1 day.

There will be no issues in booking a hotel in Pattaya unless Thailand implements a provincial lockdown like it did when COVID began. Maybe just book a Bangkok hotel for 1 night the day after you are finished quarantine so you can report that as your residence after quarantine. The Form only asks where you will be staying, not for how long. It's not the worst thing in the world to stay 1 night in Bangkok. Really, it isn't.

However, all this information is irrelevant. Who knows what the rules will be when we are allowed to return to Thailand in 2022.

[QUOTE=BayView;2511841]I'm not asking about the paying for the quarantine hotel. From what I've read, you need to pre-pay for the hotels after quarantine. Do you have to give them an itinerary? I'm sure that your application would be denied if you told them that you want to spend your time in Pattaya. Not really finding any information on the process. I'm thinking that it's probably best to wait for the vaccine before traveling.[/QUOTE]Apologizes if this seems too negative but as the mindset of the government here seems to be to take no chances it may perhaps be worth considering the following in making decisions about when you intend trying to travel.

As I understand it neither Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines while reducing the odds do not prevent Covid infection. More relevant the data is not yet clear whether a vaccinated person who becomes infected can be a transmitter. Consequently its possible vaccines will not change requirements to quarantine. We may have to wait for herd immunity for that.

For those waiting to visit hopefully this is not be how it goes, data will show vaccinated people cannot be spreaders and a certificate of vaccination will allow normal entry. Hopefully.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2512186]Hotels have a legal obligation to inform Immigration that you are staying there. Thai Immigration will always know where you are. One of the reasons Thailand is against AirBNB because an AirBNB owner is not going to go to the Immigration office to file a TM30 for someone staying at their condo for 1 day.[/QUOTE]Which is the dumbest shit ever. I arrive at the airport and put all that information on my form. Then when I get to Pattaya, because I have a place there, I have to go down to the local immigration office within a certain time frame and fill out a form with the same information that was on the one I gave them at the airport. What is the purpose of filling the damn thing out at the airport if you have to self report or the place you are staying has to report you? Waste of paper and time.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2512236]...As I understand it neither Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines while reducing the odds do not prevent Covid infection. More relevant the data is not yet clear whether a vaccinated person who becomes infected can be a transmitter[/QUOTE]I understand the same thing. That bad part is vaccinated people won't know they are infected and they could become the super spreaders of late 2021.

People should understand that COVID is the disease that is caused by a certain virus. Preventing someone from getting the disease does not necessarily stop the virus. We hope it does, but at this point in time we really don’t know.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2511856]Does anyone else know? Aren't the usual "To visit friends", "To visit historic sites", "To tour the country" or "To research business opportunities" acceptable on these itineraries as they have been in the past?[/QUOTE]A mate of mine that has done a ton of traveling gave me the advice that when filling out an immigration card for any country list "tourist" as what you're doing there and "Grand hotel" as where you're staying. Works in every country because there's always a grand hotel.

BTW I definitely do not think they will turn anyone down just because they only want to visit Pattaya.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2512277]Which is the dumbest shit ever. I arrive at the airport and put all that information on my form. Then when I get to Pattaya, because I have a place there, I have to go down to the local immigration office within a certain time frame and fill out a form with the same information that was on the one I gave them at the airport. What is the purpose of filling the damn thing out at the airport if you have to self report or the place you are staying has to report you? Waste of paper and time.[/QUOTE]What actually happens if we don't go to Jomtien to report that we have arrived back to our Pattaya condo after a 3 month visit to Japan or a 1 night visit to Bangkok? Unless a guy reads Thai Visa how do people know to even do this? Not like they explain it to us when we get our Visa, at Immigration when we arrive, or rent/buy our condo.

Agree. No idea why we fill out the Arrival Card at the airport then have to go duplicate the information in Jomtien when we arrive in Pattaya.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2512236]As I understand it neither Pfizer nor Moderna vaccines while reducing the odds do not prevent Covid infection. More relevant the data is not yet clear whether a vaccinated person who becomes infected can be a transmitter. Consequently its possible vaccines will not change requirements to quarantine. We may have to wait for herd immunity for that.[/QUOTE]Saw some good news today related to the Moderna vaccine. Preliminary results show it's better at preventing COVID disease (94.1% but also has substantial effect on preventing COVID infection (60%-70% Results based on swab testing of vaccine test participants versus placebo test participants). Pfizer expected to produce same kind of data in about February.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2512277]Which is the dumbest shit ever. I arrive at the airport and put all that information on my form. Then when I get to Pattaya, because I have a place there, I have to go down to the local immigration office within a certain time frame and fill out a form with the same information that was on the one I gave them at the airport. What is the purpose of filling the damn thing out at the airport if you have to self report or the place you are staying has to report you? Waste of paper and time.[/QUOTE]Isn't there an app to submit the TM30 form now? When I renewed my retirement visa in May the Bangkok Immigration Officer didn't mention that form and I'd heard they stopped bothering with it. Not that they officially dropped it. Just that they stopped bothering with it for now and the near future.

That was not the case the previous year I renewed. They were going nuts hassling everyone about that form in 2019.

And even though the onus to submit the TM30 form or pay a fine is on the owner or manager of the rental unit, not on the tenant, when the Immigration Officer tells you on the day you are trying to renew your visa that your landlord fucked up, didn't submit it and you'll need to go get the 800 baht or whatever fine from him before you can renew, the solution is YOU pay that 800 baht fine right then and there so you can finish everything that day and deal with your landlord about it later.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2508509]This is a critical point. It means that virgin countries like LOS with quarantine measures in place are going to be very reluctant to open their borders even to vaccinated travelers until a significant percentage of their own population has been inoculated. This may postpone travel to Thailand for most of 2021. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
[/QUOTE]My guess (definitely only a guess), from following Thai news, is that they'll continue to require a 14 day quarantine long into 2021, even for vaccinated tourists. There's widespread popular support in Thailand for taking this conservative approach, and they may smart to do so, since we probably won't know whether vaccinated people can transmit the disease for quite a while. That said, it might be worth suffering through a 14 day quarantine.

Your information is dated. Just yesterday in Bangkok Post, government officials said they are considering lowering the quarantine days to 10 and will make a decision around mid January. They already have decided to allow low risk countries (including the US) to enter Thailand with an automatic 45 days, instead of the usual visa on arrival of 30 days. This is intended to compensate for the current 14 day quarantine, which is actually 16 days because your first day at the designated ASQ hotel is considered day zero, then 14 days in Quarantine and you check out the 16th day.

It still possible to ask for a longer stay by requesting a 60 day visa, which you can extend after that expiration up to 270 days. 10 days or 14 days, it's still too much for me. The expense for this ASQ stay plus the prison like circumstances is just too much at least for this hombre.

[QUOTE=YetAnotherGuy;2512815]My guess (definitely only a guess), from following Thai news, is that they'll continue to require a 14 day quarantine long into 2021, even for vaccinated tourists. There's widespread popular support in Thailand for taking this conservative approach, and they may smart to do so, since we probably won't know whether vaccinated people can transmit the disease for quite a while. That said, it might be worth suffering through a 14 day quarantine.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2513135]Your information is dated. Just yesterday in Bangkok Post, government officials said they are considering lowering the quarantine days to 10 and will make a decision around mid January. ... 10 days or 14 days, it's still too much for me. The expense for this ASQ stay plus the prison like circumstances is just too much at least for this hombre.[/QUOTE]True, though there's a lot of pushback on the quarantine reduction proposal. I'll be surprised if they do it, though I've been surprised a lot of times, so who knows? I've been thinking the same thing about the expense, though I do really miss Thailand.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2513135]government officials said they are considering lowering the quarantine days to 10 and will make a decision around mid January. [/QUOTE]With the 500 reported new cases yesterday, they may rethink that one.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2513452]With the 500 reported new cases yesterday, they may rethink that one.[/QUOTE]Yes. A lot of dating site girls come from that Bangkok metropolitan area.

Thailand reports daily COVID record of more than 500 cases.
A sharp rise in cases mostly linked to shrimp market in Samut Sakhon, bringing Thailand's infections to more than 4,800.
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/12/19/thailand-reports-daily-covid-record-of-more-than-500-cases[/URL]

[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2037767/quarantine-golf-courses-to-be-named[/URL]

This would make quaratine more bearable.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2513452]With the 500 reported new cases yesterday, they may rethink that one.[/QUOTE]Wow. Just checked. 576 new cases in 1 day. Total cases up until yesterday was 4,331. Thailand has done 1.2 million tests for 69 million people. Compare this to some countries with similar population. UK 60 million tests. France 30 million tests. Italy 24 million tests.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2513462]Wow. Just checked. 576 new cases in 1 day. Total cases up until yesterday was 4,331. Thailand has done 1.2 million tests for 69 million people. Compare this to some countries with similar population. UK 60 million tests. France 30 million tests. Italy 24 million tests.[/QUOTE]Then a question arises regarding the reason for 24-60 times more testing in those other countries. Was it because 24-60 times more of those people were exhibiting symptoms, sick enough to visit a doctor or go to a hospital where they would then be given a test?

These lastest Thai tests appear to have been routine tests for migrant workers in the food industry, primarily from Burma, 90% of whom exhibited no symptoms.

The new and deadly strain from south Africa could be a problem in future and may not have a vaccine possible to handle it.

[URL]https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1374779/covid-strain-latest-new-coronavirus-variant-south-africa-young-adults[/URL]

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2513578]The new and deadly strain from south Africa could be a problem in future and may not have a vaccine possible to handle it.

[URL]https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1374779/covid-strain-latest-new-coronavirus-variant-south-africa-young-adults[/URL][/QUOTE]Daily Express umm not exactly the Lancet when it comes to medical science.

All virus's mutate, covid has already done so several times. The problem with the new variant is it's increased contagiousness which impacts the are factor. Almost all epidemiologists familiar with the science behind the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines which work by attacking the protein spikes ability to attach to the infected host do not believe this new variant impacts that efficacy.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2513479]Then a question arises regarding the reason for 24-60 times more testing in those other countries. Was it because 24-60 times more of those people were exhibiting symptoms, sick enough to visit a doctor or go to a hospital where they would then be given a test?

These lastest Thai tests appear to have been routine tests for migrant workers in the food industry, primarily from Burma, 90% of whom exhibited no symptoms.[/QUOTE]This round of tests was triggered by a 67 year-old lady who ran a stall at the seafood market going to hospital with symptoms, getting tested and proving positive. The Thai track and trace mechanisms then kick in and they test anyone who is likely to have been in contact, or even could possibly been in contact. This was how they bought the last cluster in the first outbreak under control at Cherng Talay in Phuket. Lock down the area and test repeatedly. It also what they did in Pattaya during lockdown on the hunch that it could be a hotbed of infection (it wasn't).

Banana Boi. Testing numbers as a measure are a very blunt tool. Thailand had around 500,000 negative domestic (I. E. Not quarantined inbound travellers) tests between late May (the last Phuket case) and the next domestic case which was the Bangkok DJ. If you test the symptomatic, those that seek a test and even anyone who is admitted to hospital for whatever reason (certain hospitals did this as a precaution) and they are all coming back negative, there is very little appetite from either the Health authorities or the general public for imposing the regular sticking of a 15 cm Q-tip up peoples nostrils against their will.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2513578]The new and deadly strain from south Africa could be a problem in future and may not have a vaccine possible to handle it.

[URL]https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1374779/covid-strain-latest-new-coronavirus-variant-south-africa-young-adults[/URL][/QUOTE]I read the strain is from the UK. UK is basically cut off from the world at the moment.

Funny reading about all those travelers in the UK freaking out because they can't get home now. I have no sympathy. They shouldn't have been traveling to the UK to begin with! If I travel to Thailand and they had a lot of cases before I travelled I wouldn't be botching about it. If you can't afford to take 6 months off work or work abroad don't travel internationally. Simple.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2514121] If you can't afford to take 6 months off work or work abroad don't travel internationally. Simple.[/QUOTE]Sums it up perfectly.

I'm pressing civilian sources, but thought maybe hobby sources might have boots on the ground intel.

Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?

I could almost swear I read somewhere if you apply for entry 60 days in advance, you get in with PCR test. Maybe I'm mistaken idk.

Had two flash sale $380 flights Dallas-BKK via Delta in August then November one by one both canceled and refunded. Have another $410 Houston-BKK via American. Third time's a charm?

Edit: if I bring an entire YETI cooler of individual vaccines, will that butter them up?

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2515007]Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?[/QUOTE]Not at the moment, no. With the incidents of the last few days, it may delay things a bit.

Will we go back to ease of travel? Yes, but February may be a bit early.

For now BKK is in the orange zone [URL]https://www.timeout.com/bangkok/news/there-wont-be-lockdown-prayut-confirms-122420[/URL].

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2515007]Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?
[/QUOTE]I'm certainly not "boots on the ground", but look at some well published information. (1) Experts are predicting the worst is yet to come in the northern hemisphere. (2) Thailand is starting to see an outbreak in one area, which we hope gets quickly controlled. (3) There are far too few vaccines for everybody. (4) We don't know if vaccinated people will transmit the virus (though preliminary findings for Moderna look promising). I don't see anything now that would make me think travel restrictions will be eased in the near future. To me, the biggest travel restriction is the 10 to 14-day quarantine. I'm thinking October before we can easily return to Thailand.

Perhaps Thailand will become so desperate for tourists that the authorities ignore public health in hopes of helping the economy. I wouldn't bet on that.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2515007]I'm pressing civilian sources, but thought maybe hobby sources might have boots on the ground intel.

Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?

I could almost swear I read somewhere if you apply for entry 60 days in advance, you get in with PCR test. Maybe I'm mistaken idk.[/QUOTE]CTC,

If by "easing of travel restrictions" you mean an end to the quarantine requirement then not a chance in the next few months.

The only easing currently on the agenda is possibly reducing the quarantine to 10 days. A couple of months ago a group of Thai soldiers returned from UN Peacekeeping in South Sudan and were tested more regularly than is the standard regime here. They found that all positive cases were picked up by day 9. They are now testing in quarantine 3 times. Day 3-5, day 8-9 and day 12-13 (previously just the first and last of these) and if this confirms that all cases are picked up in the first two tests they may cut the quarantine period. A decision on this is expected mid-January.

To clarify the restrictions as they currently stand the requirements are a visa (see below), flight and Alternative State Quarantine reservations, US $100 k Covid insurance for the duration of your stay (these will allow you to get a Certificate of Entry from the Thai Embassy / Consulate) and a negative PCR test and doctors "fit to fly" letter no more than 3 days before departure.

Visas. The Visa Waiver (30 day stamp on entry) which was the standard method for most travellers (ex-China and India) is suspended until further notice so you'll need to apply for a visa from the Embassy / Consulate. Current options:

Single Entry Tourist Visa 'TR' - 60 days with one extension of 30 days in country.

Special Tourist Visa (STV) - 90 days which can then be extended twice by 90 days each giving a total of 270 days.

The various longer term visas. Retirement, Thai Elite, Spouse, Business, Volunteer, etc.

As to when and in what circumstances the restrictions will be lifted substantially it is very difficult to give any certainty. Will proof of vaccination allow the avoidance of quarantine? In the next 6 months I doubt it. The authorities here are ultra cautious and will await firm scientific evidence that the vaccine prevents people from becoming carriers. Bear in mind that at the moment the vaccine is not scheduled to be available at all in Thailand until mid-2021 and so the population will remain vulnerable well into 2022. Stickman Bangkok's column last week made a guess at 4th Quarter 2021 for a return to anything approaching normal travel into Thailand. That seems plausible to me although I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were six months later than that.

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2515007]Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?[/QUOTE]Possibly by February, 2022 but don't hold your breath.

As for "boots on the ground" a gogo girl has just advised me that the recent COVID surge west of Bangkok has now hit Pattaya. Everyone is panicking now. Lots of anger against the illegal Myanmar workers. Heads are going to roll at the IO who took money to let these illegal workers in.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2515044]
Visas. The Visa Waiver (30 day stamp on entry) which was the standard method for most travellers (ex-China and India) is suspended until further notice [/QUOTE][URL]https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30400034[/URL]

[QUOTE=CenTexCrash;2515007]Does anyone in the grapevine foresee any easing of travel restrictions by February?

I could almost swear I read somewhere if you apply for entry 60 days in advance, you get in with PCR test. Maybe I'm mistaken idk.[/QUOTE]This link might be of help: [URL]https://coethailand.mfa.go.th/regis/step?language=en[/URL].

To my novice interpretation it says:

1) Apply for a Certificate of Entry (COE).

After the COE is processed:

2) Provide flight, quarantine hotel (ASQ) and proof of valid CoVid health insurance coverage inside Thailand info.

After your COE has been approved:

3) Obtain a negative CoVid test and a Fit to Fly certificate within 72 hours of departure.

SL.

[QUOTE=ChristianG;2515099][URL]https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30400034[/URL][/QUOTE]Christian,

There's a bit more detail on [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/social-and-lifestyle/2040115/thai-immigration-where-do-things-stand-[/URL].

Have admit I overlooked the latest change because the original proposal was for the extension to be available from September next year.

I'm starting to hear actual stories of guys I know through a friend from various countries are getting in to Thailand now via STV. So as long as you can work virtually and can endure the 14 days in a quarantine hotel looks like a green light to go to Thailand. I think most of us work from home now anyways so take 1 or 2 vacation days to fly to Thailand and you're set. Hurry now before the new variant messes things up.

If you're waiting for the 14 day quarantine hotel to disappear any time soon I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2515622]I'm starting to hear actual stories of guys I know through a friend from various countries are getting in to Thailand now via STV. So as long as you can work virtually and can endure the 14 days in a quarantine hotel looks like a green light to go to Thailand.
[/QUOTE]I wonder if all coutnries have the same policy for STV but I doubt it.

For my country: To apply for a visa, submit:

1) Criminal Certificate issued by the country of residence or by one's country of origin (validity not exceeding 3 months);.

2) Medical Certificate, issued in the country of submission of the visa application, certifying that you are not suffering from diseases not allowed in the territory as per Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B. E. 2535) (validity of the Certificate not exceeding 3 months).

3) Health Insurance Policy with the following requirements: minimum validity of 90 days (from the date of arrival) or the entire period of stay in Thailand; Coverage for outpatient services in Thailand of no less than 40,000 THB; Coverage for hospitalization in Thailand of no less than 400,000 THB; coverage for all medical expenses, including COVID-19 not less than $ 100,000.

To purchase insurance from Thai Companies approved by the Office of Insurance Commission of Thailand, visit [URL]https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesstv[/URL].

4) Confirmation of long-term accommodation, between:

- hotel reservation confirmed with advance payment for the entire duration of the stay in Thailand (after the 14-day quarantine). The reservation must be issued by the hotel and must indicate the length of stay, the hotel contacts and the Hotel Tax Code;.

- Residential lease with advance payment for the entire duration of the stay in Thailand (after the 14-day quarantine). The lease contract must be issued by the landlord and must indicate the length of stay, the landlord's contacts and the tax code of the same;.

- Installment purchase agreement or real estate loan agreement; OR deed of ownership of a condominium.

Point 1 is not free and need some time to get it in my country.

Point 2 check the pdf file.

Point 3 ok.

Point 4 this is a no go. Sure, I don't pay in advance the accomodation for 6 or 9 months.

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2020/12/29/thai-public-health-ministry-announces-all-covid-19-vaccinated-people-will-still-need-fourteen-day-quarantine/[/URL]

What regular tourist is going to do 14 days locked in a hotel room when he has been vaccinated?

[QUOTE=JimmyBoy99;2516598][URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2020/12/29/thai-public-health-ministry-announces-all-covid-19-vaccinated-people-will-still-need-fourteen-day-quarantine/[/URL]

What regular tourist is going to do 14 days locked in a hotel room when he has been vaccinated?[/QUOTE]Being Vaccinated does not mean anything at the moment, it's not proven to work. Give it a few months, things may change. It's too early to speculate about 2021.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2516634]Being Vaccinated does not mean anything at the moment, it's not proven to work. Give it a few months, things may change. It's too early to speculate about 2021.[/QUOTE]I agree with " welcome back stud " I would normally not agree with anything a Thai leader is saying but he is pretty much on the mark reading the article he basically is saying it to too early which is correct as you noted. Thailand doesn't even have their hands on it none and won't until January when AstraZ is approved by their FDA? Then you got the countries out there who got it and it requires two shots put that inline it really is too early to start letting people in even if they got the two shots. We are talking 2 months easily if it works the rules will come down accordingly?

I apologize if this isn't the right place for it but is anyone able to recommend any reading on Thailand views on human sexuality? Or basically, why is there so much of a sex trade in Asia beyond simply economics.

I can't find it at the moment but there was one poster who mentioned how it was insulting so many Westerners assume that many of the women are all from poor farming villages. When I read this, I immediately agreed but I'm having trouble articling my feelings on that.

To explain further, I'm that weird American trying to understand a different cultures perspective. For example, when kids hit puberty do Thai parents have the "talk" like Western Parents? What is taught in school for sex ed?

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2516657]I apologize if this isn't the right place for it but is anyone able to recommend any reading on Thailand views on human sexuality? Or basically, why is there so much of a sex trade in Asia beyond simply economics.[/QUOTE]A better question would be why is it suppresed in other places. Fucking is a bodily function. For some reason Americans act like it is more than it is, while still managing to miss their own mark. A few years back a monk spoke publicly saying these foreigners are coming and paying you for sex; don't miss your blessing.

I saw a video the other day from a Los Angeles news station about an increase in SW there. At the end the cop said we are getting nowhere arresting these chicks, so we will stop arresting them and instead concentrate on arresting the guys that come looking for them. Ain't that some shit? [url]https://m.worldstarhiphop.com/web/video.php?v=wshh9f90EyL71VxrH97G[/url]

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2516657]I can't find it at the moment but there was one poster who mentioned how it was insulting so many Westerners assume that many of the women are all from poor farming villages. When I read this, I immediately agreed but I'm having trouble articling my feelings on that.[/QUOTE]You said many and all. Well "many" would be true, while "all" would not be. Don't know why people would find the truth insulting.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2516657]To explain further, I'm that weird American trying to understand a different cultures perspective.[/QUOTE]Well good luck with that if the Thais' perspective of anything is the one you are trying to understand.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2516657]I apologize if this isn't the right place for it but is anyone able to recommend any reading on Thailand views on human sexuality? Or basically, why is there so much of a sex trade in Asia beyond simply economics.

I can't find it at the moment but there was one poster who mentioned how it was insulting so many Westerners assume that many of the women are all from poor farming villages. When I read this, I immediately agreed but I'm having trouble articling my feelings on that.

To explain further, I'm that weird American trying to understand a different cultures perspective. For example, when kids hit puberty do Thai parents have the "talk" like Western Parents? What is taught in school for sex ed?[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706588/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4208941/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3272438/[/URL]

[URL]https://kinseyinstitute.org/pdf/ccies-thailand.pdf[/URL]

A later (online) version of the above encyclopedia requires institutional access: [URL]https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199754700.001.0001/acref-9780199754700-e-55[/URL].

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2516664]A better question would be why is it suppresed in other places. Fucking is a bodily function. For some reason Americans act like it is more than it is, while still missing their own mark. A few years back a monk spoke publicly saying these foreigners are coming and paying you for sex; don't miss your blessing.[/QUOTE]Enough said. Can't add more. Thank you.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2516664]A better question would be why is it suppresed in other places. Fucking is a bodily function. For some reason Americans act like it is more than it is, while still managing to miss their own mark. A few years back a monk spoke publicly saying these foreigners are coming and paying you for sex; don't miss your blessing.[/QUOTE]We already know the answer to that it's conservative cultural norms largely driven from Christianity and the Nuclear Family. So my question is, what is different about Thailand?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2516664]
Well good luck with that if the Thais' perspective of anything is the one you are trying to understand.[/QUOTE]I'm not attempting to be factious.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2517225]We already know the answer to that it's conservative cultural norms largely driven from Christianity and the Nuclear Family. So my question is, what is different about Thailand?[/QUOTE]Thailand is not Christian nor is it governed by nuclear families. It is a collective. There are some collective cultures where the men fuck the same women. Does not matter who the father is because the kid will be raised by the village regardless.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2517225]I'm not attempting to be factious.[/QUOTE]I think you are saying you were not trying to be facetious. Me either! If you are trying to understand the Thai perspective of anything then you are a glutton for punishment. It will not make sense to you because you are not Thai people.

A buddy of mine has lived in Thailand since the 80s. A woman in a Mercedes rear ended him. She told the police it was his fault because he had no business driving in Thailand anyway. Nevermind he has lived in Thailand since before she was even born.

Another buddy's car was recently hit by a kid on a motorbike who was underage with no license AND had taken the bike without permission. The kid was badly injured, the motorbike was totalled, and my friend needed a new car door. My friend negotiated a payment a little over $1000 for the kid and the bike repairs.

The next example is adjusted for a country that drives on the right. You come to an intersection and you are about to turn left. The cars from the cross street that are about to turn left onto the street you are on will turn in on your right hand side then cross over to the proper lane once they have passed you.

This is the Thai perspective. Are you understanding any of this yet?

There's excessive nationalism and corrupt law enforcement in every Country. That doesn't make much sense.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2517306]Thailand is not Christian nor is it governed by nuclear families. It is a collective. There are some collective cultures where the men fuck the same women. Does not matter who the father is because the kid will be raised by the village regardless.

I think you are saying you were not trying to be facetious. Me either! If you are trying to understand the Thai perspective of anything then you are a glutton for punishment. It will not make sense to you because you are not Thai people.

A buddy of mine has lived in Thailand since the 80s. A woman in a Mercedes rear ended him. She told the police it was his fault because he had no business driving in Thailand anyway. Nevermind he has lived in Thailand since before she was even born.

Another buddy's car was recently hit by a kid on a motorbike who was underage with no license AND had taken the bike without permission. The kid was badly injured, the motorbike was totalled, and my friend needed a new car door. My friend negotiated a payment a little over $1000 for the kid and the bike repairs.

The next example is adjusted for a country that drives on the right. You come to an intersection and you are about to turn left. The cars from the cross street that are about to turn left onto the street you are on will turn in on your right hand side then cross over to the proper lane once they have passed you.

This is the Thai perspective. Are you understanding any of this yet?[/QUOTE]This does happen to farang but more likely its either a old expat with a former BG wife who doesn't speak Thai or a tourist. A expat that can converse in Thai and has Thai friends is less likely to have stuff like this happen. Its very much a country of who you know. The typical older expat knows his wife and her family and that's it when it comes to Thai people.

[QUOTE=GuyBrusg1957;2517890]There's excessive nationalism and corrupt law enforcement in every Country. That doesn't make much sense.[/QUOTE]Really a lousy justification! We aren't talking about other countries we are talking about what is relative and that is Thailand. It is a no brainer but if you live here and not just visit it would make sense!

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2516634]Being Vaccinated does not mean anything at the moment, it's not proven to work. Give it a few months, things may change. It's too early to speculate about 2021.[/QUOTE]Actually Nic not sure why you say that. Are you dismissing the data that depending on which vaccine you are talking about you will have up to 95% immunization against becoming sick from the virus.

Not surprised! Cross your finger today in the news Thailand signed a contract with the Chinese their vaccine (Sino?) 200,000 coming in January and to be distributed in Feb also to produce their vaccine in Thailand. I don't plan to be first in line for sure.

Even when you have had a jab there is no idea how long it will last, it may fade after 3 months and you need another booster, or it won't work on the south African strain. For sure you will need a mask for a long time until things become clearer.

For those of you living in Thailand, effective immediately you must download the Contact Tracing app. This is mandatory for everyone, including Thai. Legal action will be taken if you are not using the App and later test positive to COVID.

Not everyone in all of Thailand owns a smart phone so does that mean a Thai farmer in his 70's in Buriram who tests positive for COVID will be sued for not using the App. I can also see people who were not using the App to refuse to voluntarily take a COVID test even if they have COVID symptoms.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2518458] For sure you will need a mask for a long time until things become clearer.[/QUOTE]

I wear a mask, a face shield, and a gaiter. I'm pretty fly for a white guy.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2519553]For those of you living in Thailand, effective immediately you must download the Contact Tracing app. This is mandatory for everyone, including Thai. Legal action will be taken if you are not using the App and later test positive to COVID.[/QUOTE]No, this is not accurate information. Not installing the app is not a criminal offense. Not checking-in and checking-out (and therefore concealing your whereabouts) is.

[URL]https://www.thaipbsworld.com/not-installing-tracing-app-is-not-a-crime-but-concealing-information-is/[/URL]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2519575]No, this is not accurate information. Not installing the app is not a criminal offense. Not checking-in and checking-out (and therefore concealing your whereabouts) is.

[URL]https://www.thaipbsworld.com/not-installing-tracing-app-is-not-a-crime-but-concealing-information-is/[/URL][/QUOTE]"Contact tracing applications are now compulsory for people living in Thailand and those who do not use them and later test positive for COVID-19 could face legal action. " Source Thai Visa.

edit - my post was referring to an article posted yesterday. Your post is updated today after the Thai government realized that not every old person has a smart phone. Tomorrow we can expect another change after angry Thai people take to Facebook about the government knowing their whereabouts at all times. TIT.

Its more likely they can't afford to top up their sim as large numbers of sims have lapsed due to no top ups as they're broke.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WIPQO6yKEk[/URL]

This Thai guide (nice boobs) updates us on vaccine situation in The Land of Smiles (and pert boobs).

She is well worth listening to about the vaccine. Nice boobs too.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2519744][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WIPQO6yKEk[/URL]

This Thai guide (nice boobs) updates us on vaccine situation in The Land of Smiles (and pert boobs).

She is well worth listening to about the vaccine. Nice boobs too.[/QUOTE]I saw the video a few days ago it got me interested but once she started with the love for? I moved on.

Bangkok, 13 January, 2021 – The Ministry of Public Health's Emergency Operation Centre (EOC) for COVID-19 recently announced a list of government-approved golf resorts to allow foreign golfers with advance arrangements for golfing in Thailand an opportunity to undergo a golf quarantine as an alternative local state quarantine option.

Foreign golfers wishing to visit Thailand during this time will be [B]allowed to spend their two-week quarantine period[/B] at any of the six certified golf resorts and move around in the resort environment and also [B]play golf, rather than just having to isolate in their rooms.[/B].

[URL]https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1201389-golf-quarantine-in-thailand-now-available-at-six-government-approved-golf-resorts/?utm_source=newsletter-20210114-0542&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news[/URL]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2521689]Bangkok, 13 January, 2021 The Ministry of Public Health's Emergency Operation Centre (EOC) for COVID-19 recently announced a list of government-approved golf resorts to allow foreign golfers with advance arrangements for golfing in Thailand an opportunity to undergo a golf quarantine as an alternative local state quarantine option.

Foreign golfers wishing to visit Thailand during this time will be [B]allowed to spend their two-week quarantine period[/B] at any of the six certified golf resorts and move around in the resort environment and also [B]play golf, rather than just having to isolate in their rooms.[/B].

[URL]https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1201389-golf-quarantine-in-thailand-now-available-at-six-government-approved-golf-resorts/?utm_source=newsletter-20210114-0542&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news[/URL][/QUOTE]Anyone know the prices?

[QUOTE=TConor;2522008]Anyone know the prices?[/QUOTE]Not yet, project was approved but now they have to work with the Golfs to set the ASQ rules and regulations.

Yesterday Governor of Kanchanaburi has issued a statement to close hotels, some other provinces may follow.

[URL]https://t.co/jBenVfN0MX[/URL]

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;2522038]Not yet, project was approved but now they have to work with the Golfs to set the ASQ rules and regulations.

Yesterday Governor of Kanchanaburi has issued a statement to close hotels, some other provinces may follow.

[URL]https://t.co/jBenVfN0MX[/URL][/QUOTE]How it compared to the highway robbery I had to pay for 2 weeks and could not leave my jail cell, I mean room.

The golf resort will not be cheap. Think about you staying, eating, and playing golf at your local golf resort for 2 weeks. Green fee should be around 3000 baht per day and a lot more for accommodations and food. My conservative guess will be 100-150k for your quarantine depending on the course and accommodations.

On top of that Thailand is now charging a new 300 baht fee for every tourist that enters Thailand.

As my posts are subject to review by admin so don't appear for about a day after I send. I imagine this will already have appeared on the forum but on the off chance it hasn't.

According to a document published in the Royal Gazette, the Immigration law for Section 12 (4) and Section 44 (2) is being changed to include the need for the foreigners to have a #COVID19 test done in order to stay in Thailand. I imagine this will have to how negative to get the extension. Details as usual are unclear but worth keeping in mind when renewals are coming up.

A 50+ year old friend of mine from Europe (I will skip some immaterial details, just in case, to better protect his privacy and others) who owns a condo in Bangkok and usually lived half the year here but who has been stuck outside of Thailand since last January was just about to finish his 14 day quarantine in a lower Sukhumvit area ASQ hotel when he tested positive.

No options, no alternative, he was immediately taken to a hospital on the outer edges of Bangkok where he will remain in quarantine and receive several more tests for at least another 10 days. And that is even if his very next test result is negative. The one he got at his hotel might have been a false positive, but that doesn't matter. I suppose the hospital can't know if the next negative test result he gets is a false result as well.

Anyway, a few things that might be pertinent, I don't know. He actually had Covid-19 months ago in Europe but recovered well enough to get all the negative test results he needed in order to qualify for his return visa and board a flight. And then he tested negative on arrival and throughout most of his stay in the hotel. Until day 12. He has not been vaccinated yet. He feels perfectly fine as of this writing about 36 hours after he tested positive at the hotel.

He also sort of "cheated" a little. I don't see how this could have been the reason he tested positive again. But, you never know. I'll explain it here anyway. He hated the food at his hotel. The rules allowed that he could get other food delivered to him but only by friends, not by a restaurant or other delivery service, and only certain kinds of food designated in the rules; certain canned goods, uncooked packaged items and so on. But he did manage to get a girlfriend to deliver hot cooked food items not necessarily on that list of allowed items from a local western restaurant. That one restaurant was an exception made for him by the hotel at his repeated request.

Personally, I would not have strayed from any of the rules and just stuck to it by the letter no matter how shitty the food was at that hotel. Oh well. His girlfriend never entered the hotel with the food. She would only hand the bag to a member of the staff and that person would leave it outside his door and return to the elevator.

On the assumption that his positive test at the hotel was not a false result and that he has indeed tested positive for coronavirus again the most logical conclusion is he got re-infected sometime around the time he got the 72-hour pre airport arrival test, the pre-flight test, the Bangkok arrival test in or around the airport, en route to his hotel or somehow when he first arrived at the hotel. I suppose he could have gotten it from someone at the hotel. But those people get tested often enough including the on duty nurses and, as far as he knows, none of them has tested positive for it.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2523003]According to a document published in the Royal Gazette, the Immigration law for Section 12 (4) and Section 44 (2) is being changed to include the need for the foreigners to have a #COVID19 test done in order to stay in Thailand.[/QUOTE]How does that even make sense? If it is positive they can't just put them on a plane and throw them out of the country. And what about the 66 million Thai people that could have Covid? No mandatory test for them? What if the foreigner got his Covid from a Thai person? It is a human thing, not a foreign/Thai thing.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2523164]He hated the food at his hotel. The rules allowed that he could get other food delivered to him but only by friends, not by a restaurant or other delivery service, and only certain kinds of food designated in the rules; certain canned goods, uncooked packaged items and so on. But he did manage to get a girlfriend to deliver hot cooked food items not necessarily on that list of allowed items from a local western restaurant. That one restaurant was an exception made for him by the hotel at his repeated request.[/QUOTE]I don't understand the rule disallowing outside food to be delivered. Surely it can be done safely without personal contact. It would help out the local restaurants and the hotels would still get the same rates.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2523164]A 50+ year old friend of mine from Europe (I will skip some immaterial details, just in case, to better protect his privacy and others) who owns a condo in Bangkok and usually lived half the year here but who has been stuck outside of Thailand since last January was just about to finish his 14 day quarantine in a lower Sukhumvit area ASQ hotel when he tested positive.

No options, no alternative, he was immediately taken to a hospital on the outer edges of Bangkok where he will remain in quarantine and receive several more tests for at least another 10 days. And that is even if his very next test result is negative. The one he got at his hotel might have been a false positive, but that doesn't matter. I suppose the hospital can't know if the next negative test result he gets is a false result as well.

Anyway, a few things that might be pertinent, I don't know. He actually had Covid-19 months ago in Europe but recovered well enough to get all the negative test results he needed in order to qualify for his return visa and board a flight. And then he tested negative on arrival and throughout most of his stay in the hotel. Until day 12. He has not been vaccinated yet. He feels perfectly fine as of this writing about 36 hours after he tested positive at the hotel.

He also sort of "cheated" a little. I don't see how this could have been the reason he tested positive again. But, you never know. I'll explain it here anyway. He hated the food at his hotel. The rules allowed that he could get other food delivered to him but only by friends, not by a restaurant or other delivery service, and only certain kinds of food designated in the rules; certain canned goods, uncooked packaged items and so on. But he did manage to get a girlfriend to deliver hot cooked food items not necessarily on that list of allowed items from a local western restaurant. That one restaurant was an exception made for him by the hotel at his repeated request.

Personally, I would not have strayed from any of the rules and just stuck to it by the letter no matter how shitty the food was at that hotel. Oh well. His girlfriend never entered the hotel with the food. She would only hand the bag to a member of the staff and that person would leave it outside his door and return to the elevator.

On the assumption that his positive test at the hotel was not a false result and that he has indeed tested positive for coronavirus again the most logical conclusion is he got re-infected sometime around the time he got the 72-hour pre airport arrival test, the pre-flight test, the Bangkok arrival test in or around the airport, en route to his hotel or somehow when he first arrived at the hotel. I suppose he could have gotten it from someone at the hotel. But those people get tested often enough including the on duty nurses and, as far as he knows, none of them has tested positive for it.[/QUOTE]I remember the story from a few years ago about a posable serial killer in Europe. The DNA of the killer turned up at several crime scenes. After awhile someone checked the swabs and they had been contaminated with the DNA of the lady who did the packaging.

[QUOTE=Allover;2523194]I don't understand the rule disallowing outside food to be delivered. Surely it can be done safely without personal contact. It would help out the local restaurants and the hotels would still get the same rates.[/QUOTE]A friend of mine is actually in quarantine at the Sunshine Garden Resort in Pattaya, first test on 3rd day and after that from forth day spend a lot of time around the garden / swimming pool (the hotel is almost empity) and no problem with food delivery from restaurant or friends.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2523164]A 50+ year old friend of mine from Europe (I will skip some immaterial details, just in case, to better protect his privacy and others) who owns a condo in Bangkok and usually lived half the year here but who has been stuck outside of Thailand since last January was just about to finish his 14 day quarantine in a lower Sukhumvit area ASQ hotel when he tested positive.[/QUOTE]You can still shed virus cells months after having the virus. One of the tennis players who can to Australia for the Open had covid in November and tested poitive just before his flight last week. He was still allowed in because it was just old cells shedding.

[QUOTE=Allover;2523194]I don't understand the rule disallowing outside food to be delivered. Surely it can be done safely without personal contact. It would help out the local restaurants and the hotels would still get the same rates.[/QUOTE]My guess is the hotel does not know if they are helping to deliver food to someone with Covid-19 that has simply not yet shown up in a test and might be so far asymptomatic or not. So they must err on the side of utmost caution when it comes to food that might promote coughing as some milk products can or food that is not fresh or fully cooked in a way that might make someone sick anyway but especially sick if he is about to show up in a test with full blown Covid-19.

Food can be delivered. But only certain kinds of food on a list of approved items that apparently does not include pizza from wherever, barbecue ribs from here and there, boiled chicken or whatever when they don't know at what temperature or how long it sat out in the open air.

Remember, these ASQ hotels are in many ways stand ins for an actual hospital room and environmment, nurses on duty, assuming responsibility for 24 hour medical attention, if needed, what you are fed, how you are tested and so on.

I don't think it is so much about a fear of infection by or from a delivery process but more about what kind of food would or should be given to someone as if they were in a hospital bed and could show signs of a serious, potentially debilitating or deadly disease any minute.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2523315]My guess is the hotel does not know if they are helping to deliver food to someone with Covid-19 that has simply not yet shown up in a test and might be so far asymptomatic or not. So they must err on the side of utmost caution when it comes to food that might promote coughing as some milk products can or food that is not fresh or fully cooked in a way that might make someone sick anyway but especially sick if he is about to show up in a test with full blown Covid-19.

Food can be delivered. But only certain kinds of food on a list of approved items that apparently does not include pizza from wherever, barbecue ribs from here and there, boiled chicken or whatever when they don't know at what temperature or how long it sat out in the open air.

Remember, these ASQ hotels are in many ways stand ins for an actual hospital room and environmment, nurses on duty, assuming responsibility for 24 hour medical attention, if needed, what you are fed, how you are tested and so on.

I don't think it is so much about a fear of infection by or from a delivery process but more about what kind of food would or should be given to someone as if they were in a hospital bed and could show signs of a serious, potentially debilitating or deadly disease any minute.[/QUOTE]All I can tell you, based on my experience. If you're looking to lose a little weight, 15 nights of ASQ will do the trick. They should use this as part of their advertising campaign.

[QUOTE=Detwing1;2523324]All I can tell you, based on my experience. If you're looking to lose a little weight, 15 nights of ASQ will do the trick. They should use this as part of their advertising campaign.[/QUOTE]LOL. Yes, that is what I said to him when I learned he was getting outside food delivered that might or might not be on their approved list. So you walk out 3 kilos lighter if you stick to the list! Not that he needs to lose any weight.

On that topic, I should also say he is 50+ years old, non smoker, light drinker, not overweight at all, works out regularly and has no notable pre existing health conditions.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2523330]On that topic, I should also say he is 50+ years old, non smoker, light drinker, not overweight at all, works out regularly and has no notable pre existing health conditions.[/QUOTE]I'm in the same boat, except under 50. Absolutely don't need to lose the weight. That being said, my biggest fear was a false positive test.

Not sure if this is true, but I was told that if the COVID test comes back positive, it's best to tell the insurance company that you HAVE symptoms, even if you don't. It was said that if you do not have symptoms, the insurance company will refuse to pay for your hospital stay. Would be interesting to find out if this is true or not, although I wouldn't want to find out first hand.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2523178]How does that even make sense? If it is positive they can't just put them on a plane and throw them out of the country. And what about the 66 million Thai people that could have Covid? No mandatory test for them? What if the foreigner got his Covid from a Thai person? It is a human thing, not a foreign/Thai thing.[/QUOTE]This came from a Richard Barrows tweet who is usually a reliable source. He included the accompanying notice which appeared in the Royal Gazette on December 25th so I am assuming it is correct but nowadays who knows what's real.

Like a lot of what goes on with immigration in Thailand the devil is in the detail and whether what's actually on the books get implemented or not.

For example if presumably it has to be a negative test taken within 72 hours before applying for renewal what happens if it is positive. In 72 hours without a renewal you are overstaying your visa and technically subject to deportation. Will they allow you to quarantine until you test negative.

[QUOTE=Detwing1;2523335]
Not sure if this is true, but I was told that if the COVID test comes back positive, it's best to tell the insurance company that you HAVE symptoms, even if you don't. It was said that if you do not have symptoms, the insurance company will refuse to pay for your hospital stay. Would be interesting to find out if this is true or not, although I wouldn't want to find out first hand.[/QUOTE]You must to choose a insurance company that cover you in any case with symptoms and without. Some company don't cover your hospital bill if you are asymptomatic. Plenty of guys had problems because their insurance don't respond in case you are asymptomatic. So you need to choose your insurance carefully.

The bad part is that all embassies should check your insurance company and approve your COE only if your insurance company cover you with and without symptoms. But in fact many travelers got scammed by the insurance company. It's seems that embassy don't give a fuck if you have the right company or not.

[QUOTE=Detwing1;2523324]All I can tell you, based on my experience. If you're looking to lose a little weight, 15 nights of ASQ will do the trick. They should use this as part of their advertising campaign.[/QUOTE]You cannot go or do anything but eat. I gain wt.

[QUOTE=TConor;2523445]You cannot go or do anything but eat. I gain wt.[/QUOTE]Well you must have had better food that I did.

True, you can't really do anything or go anywhere, but I did have some workout equipment and a jump rope.

Thai woman jailed for record 43 years for criticizing monarchy: Thai woman has been jailed for 43 years for criticizing the royal family, the country's harshest ever sentence for insulting the monarchy.

The former civil servant, known only as Anchan, posted audio clips from a podcast on social media.

The 63-year-old said she had simply shared the audio files and had not commented on the content.

Thailand's lèse-majesté law, which forbids any insult to the monarchy, is among the strictest in the world.

After a three-year break, Thailand revived the controversial law late last year in an attempt to curb months of anti-government protests, with demonstrators demanding changes to the monarchy.

Full story at [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55723470[/URL].

Are Thai Go Go Bars like the Hong Kong Club in Tijuana Mexico?

Hong Kong Club in Tijuana is like a strip club where you can watch them pole dance, get a lap dance, talk with them on the seat etc.

You can also take a room with them for 30 minutes in a hotel which is right next door.

Are Go Go Bars similar to that?

Also do the Girls have bodies like Mexican girls? Thick round asses etc.

Hi,

Are there a lot of girls that are thick (round big asses like Mexican / Latina / blacks) there?

Or are they mostly skinny flat girls?

Is there a particular club or area where there are a lot of thick girls?

My type are the thick Mexican looking girls working in Hong Kong Club or Adelita's in Tijuana by the way.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523640]Are Thai Go Go Bars like the Hong Kong Club in Tijuana Mexico?[/QUOTE]No.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523640]like a strip club where you can watch them pole dance, get a lap dance, talk with them on the seat etc.[/QUOTE]Yes.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523640]You can also take a room with them for 30 minutes in a hotel which is right next door.[/QUOTE]Depends.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523640]Are Go Go Bars similar to that?[/QUOTE]Kinda sorta, but not really.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523640]Also do the Girls have bodies like Mexican girls? Thick round asses etc.[/QUOTE]Not in gogos, but in discos and some bars yes.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2523368]This came from a Richard Barrows tweet who is usually a reliable source. He included the accompanying notice which appeared in the Royal Gazette on December 25th so I am assuming it is correct but nowadays who knows what's real.

Like a lot of what goes on with immigration in Thailand the devil is in the detail and whether what's actually on the books get implemented or not.

For example if presumably it has to be a negative test taken within 72 hours before applying for renewal what happens if it is positive. In 72 hours without a renewal you are overstaying your visa and technically subject to deportation. Will they allow you to quarantine until you test negative.[/QUOTE]Update to above. Foreigners in Thailand will not be required to undergo a COVID-19 test in order to renew their extensions of stay, an immigration spokesperson clarified on Tuesday. Earlier, Khaosod English reported that foreigners would need to take a COVID-19 test in order to renew their visas / extensions of stay. However, a little over an hour later, Immigration spokesperson Archayon Kraithong confirmed to Khaosod that COVID-19 tests are not required. Mr Archayon apologised for the misunderstanding.

How is it that immigration screw up so often?

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523643]Hi,

Are there a lot of girls that are thick (round big asses like Mexican / Latina / blacks) there?

Or are they mostly skinny flat girls?

Is there a particular club or area where there are a lot of thick girls?

My type are the thick Mexican looking girls working in Hong Kong Club or Adelita's in Tijuana by the way.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]For the most part I agree with MrEnternational, but will offer some additions.

If you like the bigger builds of Hong Kong Club and Adelita's, you might be disappointed with Thailand. I prefer the thinner girls so I have challenges finding my type in Tijuana but am very happy in Thailand. You might have to search a bit to find a selection of Thai girls built like Mexicans.

Some of the agogo places in Thailand do have adjacent rooms, but not all. The 30 minute Mexican sessions where the cum boy knocks on your door at 18 minutes can be replaced with more relaxing 2 hour Thai sessions in your hotel room. Thailand offers a much more relaxed session for about the same money.

I seldom feel safe in Tijuana, especially at night. I always feel safe in Thailand, but I usually stick to the well populated tourist areas. In Tijuana you see police constantly, in Thailand you seldom see them. Thailand culture stresses respect, they don't need pickup trucks full of armed men.

Even though Zona Norte is only about 1 mile from USA, I find the Thai girls have a better command of the English language.

Don't expect to find the Thai agogo clubs open in the morning like Hong Kong Club and Adelita's. Thai agogo places open up in the evening. You will find plenty of other things to do in Thailand during the daytime.

Thai agogo clubs might have 15 girls on stage wearing bikinis, not just one or two like Tijuana. I've never seen a Thai agogo place have shaving cream shows with props like dildos mounted on a Makita reciprocating saw. Though, I must admit I haven't been in every Thai agogo.

[QUOTE=Bruhbruh;2523643]Hi,

Are there a lot of girls that are thick (round big asses like Mexican / Latina / blacks) there?

Or are they mostly skinny flat girls?

Is there a particular club or area where there are a lot of thick girls?

My type are the thick Mexican looking girls working in Hong Kong Club or Adelita's in Tijuana by the way.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]If that's your taste, then Thailand is really not the place for you. Stick to Central and South America.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2523725]Update to above. Foreigners in Thailand will not be required to undergo a COVID-19 test in order to renew their extensions of stay, an immigration spokesperson clarified on Tuesday. Earlier, Khaosod English reported that foreigners would need to take a COVID-19 test in order to renew their visas / extensions of stay. However, a little over an hour later, Immigration spokesperson Archayon Kraithong confirmed to Khaosod that COVID-19 tests are not required. Mr Archayon apologised for the misunderstanding.

How is it that immigration screw up so often?[/QUOTE]In this particular case from what I've read, it wasn't this time Thai Immigration was spread through a guy and his forum Richard or Ken Burrows? He supposedly read or had it translated a Thai announcement in December and came to his conclusion this is what it meant that testing was necessary or being purposed? From what I saw he got a lot of hate responses!

[QUOTE=TConor;2523445]You cannot go or do anything but eat. I gain wt.[/QUOTE]That might be the case but if you are gaining weight it is more about your diet and what you might be eating. There is lots of sugar in Carbs two years ago after a blood test and after some simple research cut ice cream and chips each night and within 2 months to my surprise I dropped close to 10 Kilos.

My daughter in law and her little brother (10) grew up like many Thais on 7/11 snacks and food all process and sugar she has to be over 90 Kilos although 10 he is close to 80 Kilos they didn't get that big eating Thai food.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2524109]In this particular case from what I've read, it wasn't this time Thai Immigration was spread through a guy and his forum Richard or Ken Burrows? He supposedly read or had it translated a Thai announcement in December and came to his conclusion this is what it meant that testing was necessary or being purposed? From what I saw he got a lot of hate responses![/QUOTE]LBM not that it makes any real difference but the name is Richard Barrow. He is a controversial figure who sometimes sails close to the wind on his twitter account. That said I have found him in the past to be usually well informed and here it seems to come down to the interpretation of the December 25th notice. Interesting if there was no there there why the apology offered by immigration for the "misunderstanding". No biggie, for me all that matters is knowing there is no need for test to renew.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2524165]LBM not that it makes any real difference but the name is Richard Barrow. He is a controversial figure who sometimes sails close to the wind on his twitter account. That said I have found him in the past to be usually well informed and here it seems to come down to the interpretation of the December 25th notice. Interesting if there was no there there why the apology offered by immigration for the "misunderstanding". No biggie, for me all that matters is knowing there is no need for test to renew.[/QUOTE]I understand at times when I speak to Thais it could be for a number of reasons including just being polite and agreeing when they have no idea what they are really agreeing to? One of my pet peas is they might be able to speak some English but comprehension is another thing so they act as if they understand to double-check I ask the question in another way and I get a different response majority of the time.

When I heard of the so-called news it just happened the next day I was to do my Extension 20th, always 30 days in advance rain or shine, first one in line in by 8:30 am out by 8:40, no test required!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2524319]I understand at times when I speak to Thais it could be for a number of reasons including just being polite and agreeing when they have no idea what they are really agreeing to? One of my pet peas is they might be able to speak some English but comprehension is another thing so they act as if they understand to double-check I ask the question in another way and I get a different response majority of the time.

When I heard of the so-called news it just happened the next day I was to do my Extension 20th, always 30 days in advance rain or shine, first one in line in by 8:30 am out by 8:40, no test required![/QUOTE]Further on how best to communicate with Thai people I learned early on when important never ask a question in a manner where the answer can a simple yes or no. Why? The answer will invariably be yes because they feel a no will need pain in the ass further explanation. Much simpler a kha or krap with a smile and everybody happy.

I'm open to correction by my understanding of the Thai language is that there is no single word for no. The closest is mai chai meaning not yes.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2524342]Further on how best to communicate with Thai people I learned early on when important never ask a question in a manner where the answer can a simple yes or no. Why? The answer will invariably be yes because they feel a no will need pain in the ass further explanation. Much simpler a kha or krap with a smile and everybody happy.

I'm open to correction by my understanding of the Thai language is that there is no single word for no. The closest is mai chai meaning not yes.[/QUOTE]Yes, agree! I keep learning daily with my son and daughter in law the point you are making! It is frustrating and challenging at the same time.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2524342]Further on how best to communicate with Thai people I learned early on when important never ask a question in a manner where the answer can a simple yes or no. Why? The answer will invariably be yes because they feel a no will need pain in the ass further explanation. Much simpler a kha or krap with a smile and everybody happy.

I'm open to correction by my understanding of the Thai language is that there is no single word for no. The closest is mai chai meaning not yes.[/QUOTE]What I've seen is not so much a problem with yes versus no, it is more that Thais answer a question in whatever way will minimize confrontation right now. They don't worry about consequences that come later. I've seen this many times with several different Thai women, mostly in USA. I know very few Thai men.

The Immigration Bureau has urged people to make an online booking for visa extension due to the virus before January 29. Applicants such as foreigners who have stayed in the Kingdom for over 90 days and tourists who need short-term visa extension service for Tourist visa (TR 60) and Special Tourist Visa (STV) are urged to book an appointment online. For appointment visit [URL]www.bangkokimmigration.com[/URL].

Also been reading that there are current difficulties with the 90 day report online facility so in person visit required. This has always a bit of a hit and miss process so perhaps best to at least try online before scheduling a visit.

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-police-raid-island-resort-111054152.html[/URL]

Thai police raid island resort arresting 89 foreigners, including Britons, for violating coronavirus regulations.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2526553][URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-police-raid-island-resort-111054152.html[/URL]

Thai police raid island resort arresting 89 foreigners, including Britons, for violating coronavirus regulations.[/QUOTE]What were they thinking.

[QUOTE=TConor;2526729]What were they thinking.[/QUOTE]4000 baht fines.

2 years jail.

[URL]https://twitter.com/StickboyBangkok/status/1355293841549647872/photo/1[/URL]

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2526553][URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thai-police-raid-island-resort-111054152.html[/URL]

Thai police raid island resort arresting 89 foreigners, including Britons, for violating coronavirus regulations.[/QUOTE]Stupidity at its best. Breaking a serious violation and rule that country trying to contain virus spread to their own people. Then act like they have no consideration for the rules. And this in a country that just sent a woman to jail for over 40 yrs just for insulting a king.

Stupid foreigners, they all deserve what's coming down on them. These are people that will never learn they can't get away with shit unless the sentence is harsh and then will beg and cry to the govt and the embassies for mercy.

[QUOTE=Sharka;2527014]Stupidity at its best. Breaking a serious violation and rule that country trying to contain virus spread to their own people. Then act like they have no consideration for the rules. And this in a country that just sent a woman to jail for over 40 yrs just for insulting a king.

Stupid foreigners, they all deserve what's coming down on them. These are people that will never learn they can't get away with shit unless the sentence is harsh and then will beg and cry to the govt and the embassies for mercy.[/QUOTE]Imagine that. The local just shook down a bunch of tourists for $1300 apiece. I wonder if it will be deducted from the covid deposit they paid when they entered the country.

[QUOTE=Jckgmn;2527064]Imagine that. The local just shook down a bunch of tourists for $1300 apiece. I wonder if it will be deducted from the covid deposit they paid when they entered the country.[/QUOTE]4,000 baht is about US $ 130, not 1,300.

[QUOTE=Jckgmn;2527064]Imagine that. The local just shook down a bunch of tourists for $1300 apiece. I wonder if it will be deducted from the covid deposit they paid when they entered the country.[/QUOTE]If you ask me, they should get the max jail sentence 2 years. I think they'll have time to reflect on the stupidity and danger of their behavior?

Bar owners should get the same courtesy.

I keep in touch with several non-P4P Thai girls. Yesterday a Khon Kaen hairdresser told me that vaccinated tourists do not need to be quarantined. Today a Bangkok nurse told me the same thing.

I've looked through a couple of Thai news sources and haven't seen anything that suggests no quarantine for vaccinated tourists. Am I missing something? My guess is these Thai girls don't know what they are talking about. My gut feel is the quarantine requirements will continue for months to come.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2527877]I keep in touch with several non-P4P Thai girls. Yesterday a Khon Kaen hairdresser told me that vaccinated tourists do not need to be quarantined. Today a Bangkok nurse told me the same thing.
[/QUOTE]If you have not learned by now that Thai people go on I think and not facts. Fuck around and listen to them if you want to. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and always says stuff that there is no basis for as well. Follow the Bangkok Post, not those unlearned chicks.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2527880]If you have not learned by now that Thai people go on I think and not facts. Fuck around and listen to them if you want to. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and always says stuff that there is no basis for as well. Follow the Bangkok Post, not those unlearned chicks.[/QUOTE]Correct! Rumors and more rumors " I heard this from my friend stuff " it is nice that it is even being suggested by some officials like the one from TAT, even a letter was written by a Hotel Association Head a guy half Thai and American whatever reason got ripe apart for making the suggestion? In the end, it has only been suggested that anyone who has gotten the vaccine with a vaccine passport is allowed into Thailand to travel freely without any Quarantine (no mention of insurance or obtaining COE) also reported by a health minister much too early not enough data to approve such a request did suggest if it happens it might be later in the year?

Their education system lacking? For example, I was getting a massage yesterday from a regular talking about the vaccine from China she couldn't wait, I said that was the last one I would take she was surprised I told her a bit about China she had no idea that China was a communist country that she felt it was just like Thailand? Not the first time.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2527880]If you have not learned by now that Thai people go on I think and not facts. Fuck around and listen to them if you want to. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and always says stuff that there is no basis for as well. Follow the Bangkok Post, not those unlearned chicks.[/QUOTE]Yes, you have observed the same things as I have. I sporadically read TheThaiger, PattayaNews, and BangkokPost. I appreciate members of this board who post links to good articles that I miss.

Restricting visitors was never about their contracting the virus when they got here, it was about their bringing it with them. So unless the vaccines along with preventing serious illness developing also prevents the possibility of becoming infected and being a transmitter vaccination certs may not be the game changer people expect. The data so far is incomplete but anecdotally suggests while lessening the possibility none of the existing vaccines totally prevent the possibility of infection and transmission. Reaching herd immunity at somewhere between 60% to 80% of a population seems to be what's needed but it could be quite some time before this happens in Thailand. Meanwhile second guessing what the uniforms will do while an amusing pastime in my humble opinion is pointless.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2527877]I keep in touch with several non-P4P Thai girls. Yesterday a Khon Kaen hairdresser told me that vaccinated tourists do not need to be quarantined. Today a Bangkok nurse told me the same thing.

I've looked through a couple of Thai news sources and haven't seen anything that suggests no quarantine for vaccinated tourists. Am I missing something? My guess is these Thai girls don't know what they are talking about. My gut feel is the quarantine requirements will continue for months to come.[/QUOTE]This is just another one of those "ideas" that are being floated around by some leader who I assume has something to gain from more tourism. As we know 1 out of 100 of these "ideas" come to fruition. The STV comes to mind.

Imo this would be a huge mistake by Thailand if they allow this. The vaccine DOES NOT stop COVID. It just lowers your chances of getting COVID. The UK variant of COVID seems to be a champion at mutating and all the current vaccines out there will likely be ineffective in the near future.

There are a lot of news articles based on ideas from those not in control, resort owners, industry groups and even TAT and government officials. But it does not count for squat, the regulations are driven by the CCSA and only the cabinet has that power, with the prime ministers approval. Until you see an official announcement in the Royal Gazette then it's only a proposal at best.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2527936]
The vaccine DOES NOT stop COVID. It just lowers your chances of getting COVID. The UK variant of COVID seems to be a champion at mutating and all the current vaccines out there will likely be ineffective in the near future.[/QUOTE]This is very interesting info, can you share your sources?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2527936]....The vaccine DOES NOT stop COVID. It just lowers your chances of getting COVID.[/QUOTE]I haven't seen anything conclusive on that yet. If you've seen such a report, I'd be interested in reading it. If the virus cannot replicate and transmit through vaccinated people, that is good enough. It will take more time before that is known.

I hope that Thailand will keep existing policies until there is solid scientific data that shows vaccinated people cannot transmit the virus.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2528057]I haven't seen anything conclusive on that yet.[/QUOTE]Exactly. The experts seem cautiously optimistic on this though, but are careful not to make any unsubstantiated claims this early on.

Maybe the OP is privy to exclusive information. Or maybe not.

Maybe it's late and I'm tired but are you guys saying that vaccines DO stop COVID from spreading altogether? I have yet to read a single report that says this is the case.

An article yesterday.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/oxfords-covid-19-vaccine-said-182000302.html

"In addition to being 70.4 percent effective at preventing serious COVID-19, a new paper shows that the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine may also reduce transmission of the virus"

"This is the first study to analyze whether any of the COVID-19 vaccines currently in use can prevent infection and transmission of the disease. The data we have so far on the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines only show that they can prevent serious illness, not that they prevent contraction of the virus in the first place"

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2528255]Maybe it's late and I'm tired but are you guys saying that vaccines DO stop COVID from spreading altogether? [/QUOTE]No, not me, at least. Why would I make such a claim?

As the saying goes "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

But let's wait and see, data will surely be forthcoming.

[QUOTE=PuteNut;2528287]No, not me, at least. Why would I make such a claim?

As the saying goes "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

But let's wait and see, data will surely be forthcoming.[/QUOTE]Ditto from me.

I am hopeful.

You are not vaccinated, you are not wearing a mask, some other idiot also not wearing a mask but has been vaccinated is close enough their airborne droplets are inhaled by you, the data shows with the current vaccines you can become infected. The degree of transmissibility is being studied but for now the simple take away is continue following health guidelines and wait for the vaccine. If I may I would suggest that if one wants to keep up to date with what's going on with vaccines and the virus UK tabloids are probably not where you need to go.

Conflicting claims going on. But some say it can still move around amongst the unjabbed, so it needs everybody jabbed to get herd immunity, and then there's the mutations which are about. Some say the vaccines won't work on mutants. We don't know for sure yet.

Never mind there's reports on TV of super gonorrhea in Pattaya to replace it.

Quote from TV.

A friend of mine has Super Gonorrhea (not me promise and is having a hell of a time trying to kill it, so far repeated doses of the recommended antibiotics aren't working.

This thread is just a reminder that it is out there, not reported much but definitely in Pattaya. He is following up with the hospital for next steps.

Anybody else care to admit getting it and how they finally got rid of it?

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2528331]Conflicting claims going on. But some say it can still move around amongst the unjabbed, so it needs everybody jabbed to get herd immunity, and then there's the mutations which are about. Some say the vaccines won't work on mutants. We don't know for sure yet.

Never mind there's reports on TV of super gonorrhea in Pattaya to replace it.

Quote from TV.

A friend of mine has Super Gonorrhea (not me promise and is having a hell of a time trying to kill it, so far repeated doses of the recommended antibiotics aren't working.

This thread is just a reminder that it is out there, not reported much but definitely in Pattaya. He is following up with the hospital for next steps.

Anybody else care to admit getting it and how they finally got rid of it?[/QUOTE]WTF? There are only a few STD's that have a vaccine and Gonorrhea is not one of them.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2528331]He is following up with the hospital for next steps.

Anybody else care to admit getting it and how they finally got rid of it?[/QUOTE]I did have Gonorrhea a while back, in Europe. I went to the doctor and got an antibiotic. I waited for a week. It did not work. Got back to the doctor and got another one. That worked. Doctor told me that I should have come back earlier as the antibiotic should give relief in days. So that might be a tip to anybody: just ask your doctor about how soon the medicine should work. The doctor informed me that even if the second antibiotic would not have worked too there are still some other options, I. E. Antibiotics. Some of these are only administered in the hospital. My only problem was that I had serious pain for one week more and it took about 2 months to feel normal again. By the way, I got it after a DT. Won't be doing that again.

This is something completely different then virus infections. Just google "virus versus bacteria infections" and choose a medical article in stead of a newspaper.

Got a dose of the clap last year. Went to BHP for analysis. Positive for gono. Was given a jab of some antibiotic (I don't remember which) + azithromycin oral. It worked. But it also must've meant 1 antibiotic on its own was not sufficient.

Symptoms were nearly unnoticeable after 3 days of treatment.

[QUOTE=XXL;2528872]Got a dose of the clap last year. Went to BHP for analysis. Positive for gono. Was given a jab of some antibiotic (I don't remember which) + azithromycin oral. It worked. But it also must've meant 1 antibiotic on its own was not sufficient.

Symptoms were nearly unnoticeable after 3 days of treatment.[/QUOTE]Correct, due to more resistant strains of Gono, one drug won't cut it anymore.

Use to be just azithromycin alone many yrs ago was enough. Then resistance set in.

Then oral Cefixime was introduce and it was enough alone to do the job. That lasted about 3 yrs and now its not effective.

Today its an injection of Ceftriaxone and a 2nd oral antibiotic is needed.

Just to add, cases of Gono already documented that's resistant to ALL known antibiotics, meaning totally incurable. And these cases are rising worldwide.

[QUOTE=XXL;2528872]Got a dose of the clap last year. Went to BHP for analysis. Positive for gono. Was given a jab of some antibiotic (I don't remember which) + azithromycin oral. It worked. But it also must've meant 1 antibiotic on its own was not sufficient.

Symptoms were nearly unnoticeable after 3 days of treatment.[/QUOTE]You are unlucky, many posters have unprotected sex and report that they have never got an STD. I am scared of contracting that antibiotic resistant gonorrhea so I'll always wear my dick mask.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2527936]
The vaccine DOES NOT stop COVID. It just lowers your chances of getting COVID. [/QUOTE]Yes, but because it lowers your chances of getting Covid, it also lowers the chance that you spread it around. When you become infected you will have milder symptoms, or none at all, and this means you will be less contagious to others. So in the end the vaccines can certainly stop Covid.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;2529182]Yes, but because it lowers your chances of getting Covid, it also lowers the chance that you spread it around. When you become infected you will have milder symptoms, or none at all, and this means you will be less contagious to others. So in the end the vaccines can certainly stop Covid.[/QUOTE]Interesting. I didn't think the vaccine lowered your chances of getting Covid. And I don't think we know yet about the vaccine's ability to stop us from being contagious. I am under the belief the vaccine only prevents you from getting seriously ill. I sure hope this vaccine stuff works. I got my second Pfizer shot yesterday.

It's been reported that AstraZeneca is ineffective against the SA variant. SA has stopped vaccine rollout. There are now 3 reported variants that I am aware of. UK, SA, and Brazil.

[QUOTE=Allover;2529212]Interesting. I didn't think the vaccine lowered your chances of getting Covid. And I don't think we know yet about the vaccine's ability to stop us from being contagious. I am under the belief the vaccine only prevents you from getting seriously ill. I sure hope this vaccine stuff works. I got my second Pfizer shot yesterday.[/QUOTE]I am getting my 2nd Moderna shot this week. I read all the legal mumbo-jumbo that the lawyers cooked up to protect the pharmaceutical companies and hospitals from legal liabilities when I received my 1st round, but I am still under the impression that the Pfizer & Moderna Vaccines lower the chances of catching Corona by roughly 95%.

I am getting my 2nd Moderna shot this week and I am flying to Brazil in roughly 45 days. I realize I am taking a risk. But I don't care if I am wrong about the efficacy of the vaccine or my luck just runs out. I am not going to lose another year to this virus.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;2529182]Yes, but because it lowers your chances of getting Covid, it also lowers the chance that you spread it around. When you become infected you will have milder symptoms, or none at all, and this means you will be less contagious to others. So in the end the vaccines can certainly stop Covid.[/QUOTE]The metric of how contagious vaccinated people can be will be just one of the variables on when Thailand will reopen without crippling quarantine. Will they say ok you're vaccinated come on in, just bring your cert. Umm I doubt it.

Not obviously for the vaccinated person but testing negative may be considered more relevant than being vaccinated when it comes to whether you could be a spreader. That changes when vaccinations in the local population.

Reach a level where herd immunity kicks in which sadly looking at the roll out here will not happen anytime soon.

Notwithstanding reports of LK Metro roaring back Thailand is in serious need of a more reasoned policy on how to allow visitors back in. Vaccinations will help but shorter quarantine periods and a smarter use of testing on arrival would be more helpful.

[QUOTE=Allover;2529212]Interesting. I didn't think the vaccine lowered your chances of getting Covid. And I don't think we know yet about the vaccine's ability to stop us from being contagious. I am under the belief the vaccine only prevents you from getting seriously ill. I sure hope this vaccine stuff works. I got my second Pfizer shot yesterday.[/QUOTE]You effectively have it right. The virus is named "SARS-CoV-2" and when it is in your body it can cause the disease named COVID-19. The vaccine won't keep the virus out of your system, but it will go a long way towards preventing or lessening the disease. The different vaccines use different technologies so some might stop the spread of SARS-CoV-2 while others don't. I've seen no scientific test data that answers that question one way or the other. You may just be an asymptomatic spreader of SARS-CoV-2.

It's great that you got your Pfizer shots. That and the Moderna seem to be exceptional.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2529454]You effectively have it right. The virus is named "SARS-CoV-2" and when it is in your body it can cause the disease named COVID-19. The vaccine won't keep the virus out of your system, but it will go a long way towards preventing or lessening the disease. The different vaccines use different technologies so some might stop the spread of SARS-CoV-2 while others don't. I've seen no scientific test data that answers that question one way or the other. You may just be an asymptomatic spreader of SARS-CoV-2.

It's great that you got your Pfizer shots. That and the Moderna seem to be exceptional.[/QUOTE]Agree, as of now Pfixer and Moderna appear to be more efficacious than Astra Zenaca but that may be just down to A / Z been more widely used and thereby having more data available particularly against the South African variant. The real game changer may be the single shot J and J which is expected to come on stream later this month month.

Living here and waiting for a vaccine is frustrating. Seems they have their own authorization process to complete but if a vaccine has been approved by the US UK and EU surely that should be good enough. My feeling is most likely when the paper work is completed the private sector will get their hands on limited supplies and we will be paying silly prices to get vaccinated.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2529542]My feeling is most likely when the paper work is completed the private sector will get their hands on limited supplies and we will be paying silly prices to get vaccinated.[/QUOTE]No doubt farang will pay plenty for the vaccine in Thailand. That's if the South African variant doesn't kill us all.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2529542]Agree, as of now Pfixer and Moderna appear to be more efficacious than Astra Zenaca but that may be just down to A / Z been more widely used and thereby having more data available particularly against the South African variant. The real game changer may be the single shot J and J which is expected to come on stream later this month month.[/QUOTE]What many of the news outlets fail to report on is that that these are early indicators of a possible outcome, Europe has authorised the AZ vaccine for all ages but countries are refusing to administer the vaccine to the elderly as they don't have enough information about it's effect on that age group. I wonder what they will do when they have access to the other vaccines with similar levels of data. Now the efficacy against the SA strain is questioned due to similar small results. The experts who reported their analysis made it clear that there was a wide range of possible outcomes when it's delivered to more people.

The latest intel on Covid vaccines is not good for any 3rd world country. (And eventually for all of us).

1) most developed countries will certainly hold the vaccines for their citizens to be vaccinated first before mass distribution to 3rd world countries.

2) the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are problematic for 3rd world countries because of storage and shipping issues. (They require specialized deep freezers ex. Pfizer vaccines must be kept under -70 degrees, anything above that and its only good for 24 hrs after).

3) because most 3rd world countries won't get their shots finished perhaps for years, this will allow a lot of time for mutant variants to develop and spread that no current vaccine can stop.

Things are not looking good for planet earth.

And 3rd world countries won't be able to cope with the mutations of which there will be many for years needing tweeked vaccines for years and years, the Thai billionaires will be fine tho. Pity about the workers.

Things are looking good for planet earth!

Tinte / Black ink.

[QUOTE=Sharka;2529774]The latest intel on Covid vaccines is not good for any 3rd world country. (And eventually for all of us).

1) most developed countries will certainly hold the vaccines for their citizens to be vaccinated first before mass distribution to 3rd world countries.

2) the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are problematic for 3rd world countries because of storage and shipping issues. (They require specialized deep freezers ex. Pfizer vaccines must be kept under -70 degrees, anything above that and its only good for 24 hrs after).

3) because most 3rd world countries won't get their shots finished perhaps for years, this will allow a lot of time for mutant variants to develop and spread that no current vaccine can stop.

Things are not looking good for planet earth.[/QUOTE]Just makes me think the "COVID passport" type thing when it inevitably comes to life, is going to the standard for international travel to many countries and developed nations certainly look they may be on track to be able to provide vaccines to all 18+ adults who want it by late summer.

OK. That said, yeah things don't look great for developing nations, but your info is a bit wrong. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are high priced with lot of requirements and were never intended for developing nations, they were meant to be a fast way to produce a vaccine for nations that could support the additional cost and logistics. There are other vaccines testing and such that are designed for cheaper distribution without need for anything complex-- plus the Chinese vaccine which, well, lets wait for it to be reviewed, but I suspect it will be widely distributed in SE Asia. The Russian one is seemingly getting peer reviewed well too (but again lets wait). And then there is a whole slew of others expecting to get done soon.

Its going to be a tough road but I see tourism opening much wider by the end of the year, plus people are flush with travel cash and countries are going to want to cash in on that, even if covid issues are present.

I have been asking random Thais (not just working girls) if they would take the vaccine if available for free. I am finding 20% yes, 80% NO- but this is a small sample and all done in northern Thai provinces. Maybe if the poll was were taken in Rayong or BKK the results would be different. If you have any data, please chip in /.

[QUOTE=TConor;2530002]I have been asking random Thais (not just working girls) if they would take the vaccine if available for free. I am finding 20% yes, 80% NO[/QUOTE]Most of the people that I ask in the States are not getting it either. I am of the same persuasion. TV makes you think that it is in demand and the majority wants to get it. They are trying to coax people into getting it by bombarding you with news and propaganda.

This is a very sensible answer. Young working women are not high risk from covid and the vaccine does not stop spread. Why would they want it? What's the upside?

[QUOTE=TConor;2530002]I have been asking random Thais (not just working girls) if they would take the vaccine if available for free. I am finding 20% yes, 80% NO- but this is a small sample and all done in northern Thai provinces. Maybe if the poll was were taken in Rayong or BKK the results would be different. If you have any data, please chip in /.[/QUOTE]

Just as well the anti vaxxers weren't influential when vaccines were developed for smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, hepatitis, measles, diphtheria and some other diseases which have pretty much disappeared or been greatly reduced through the use of vaccines.

If not getting a vaccine effected only the individuals making that choice and if these same individuals if they catch a vaccinatable disease have the means to pay for treatment and care (not become a burden on the state) I would say hey it's your right whether to get vaccinated or not.

This is not the situation with contagious viruses. You don't get vaccinated just to protect yourself but also to protect others in your community by firstly reducing the level of transmissibility if you happened to get infected and secondly so that the population can reach a vaccinated level where herd immunity kicks in.

The arguments against getting vaccinated as I understand include infringement on your civil liberty, no need to get vaccinated I'll be ok, discredited science on the dangers of vaccines and more recently a political context usually emanating from the right wing of the spectrum. I could be wrong but I have a feeling these same anti vaxxers are less likely to wear a mask, feel the need to social distance or follow other health safety guidelines.

On the acceptability of vaccines, polls depending on the demographic show an increasing willingness to get vaccinated. This is expected to rise further as more data comes in on the effectiveness of the different vaccines in preventing serious illness and deaths from Covid 19.

I for one will be rolling up my sleeve at the earliest opportunity.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2530004]Most of the people that I ask in the States are not getting it either. I am of the same persuasion. TV makes you think that it is in demand and the majority wants to get it. They are trying to coax people into getting it by bombarding you with news and propaganda.[/QUOTE]I'm in the States and everyone I know is trying to get the vaccine ASAP. Some are trying to trick the registration system to get it early and others are pissed when they learn that an unqualified person got the vaccine without waiting their turn. Haven't spoken to a single person in USA who doesn't want the vaccine. But, I know there are millions out there.

I also keep in touch with too many Thai girls ranging from 22 to 55 years. When I mention the vaccine they think about me getting the vaccine so I can travel to Thailand and spend my money. They don't think about them getting the vaccine, it seems out of reach for them.

Americans and Thais have different perspectives of the disease. Very few Thais have gotten COVID. They think about the economic problems they face and the restrictions on their daily lives. On the other hand, I have many friends who fought COVID (maybe 30?) 5 or 6 were admitted to hospitals, 3 went to ICU, and one lost his life. The sad thing is that most of my friends who got COVID were able to trace the origin to violations of the social distancing rules at parties, family gatherings, or at church. Only one family of 4 got COVID from the work environment. Personally, I work at home and isolate myself except for necessary outings (food, medicine, and hookers).

[QUOTE=Horatio;2530024] the vaccine does not stop spread. [/QUOTE]Do you have data to back up your claim?

Again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2530093] Personally, I work at home and isolate myself except for necessary outings (food, medicine, and hookers).[/QUOTE]Same here, but different order.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2530024]This is a very sensible answer. Young working women are not high risk from covid and the vaccine does not stop spread. Why would they want it? What's the upside?[/QUOTE]You're right doesn't stop spread but data shows it reduces it.

Populations need to achieve herd immunity which means 70% of population vaccinated.

Yes younger means less likely to get seriously sick but they are not immune.

Instead of what's the upside in getting vaccinated I feel the question should be what's the upside in not getting vaccinated, it's just a jab or two not heart surgery and in most countries it's free.

Of course if one is in an anti vax frame of mind it's a different argument.

[QUOTE=TConor;2530002]I have been asking random Thais (not just working girls) if they would take the vaccine if available for free. I am finding 20% yes, 80% NO- but this is a small sample and all done in northern Thai provinces. Maybe if the poll was were taken in Rayong or BKK the results would be different. If you have any data, please chip in /.[/QUOTE]Like the French who say only 42%will have a jab if offered, most are sceptics so bodes bad for froggys to get herd immunity.

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reducing-covid-cases-experts-vaccine-sniffles-164041023.html[/URL]

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/reducing-covid-cases-experts-vaccine-sniffles-164041023.html[/URL]

Reducing symptoms to "the sniffles" in most coronavirus cases would be "job done", a top scientist has said.

Professor Andrew Pollard, chair of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization said the current generation of coronavirus vaccines may already be able to stop severe illness against future variants.

It comes as completely stopping coronavirus transmission becomes increasingly unlikely with new variants emerging across the world.

The UK is aiming to vaccinate 15 million people, including over-70's, vulnerable groups and healthcare workers within the next few weeks.

Millions have already had their first jabs with Britain having one of the highest levels of vaccine coverage so far, along with Israel and the UAE.

Read: Are coronavirus vaccines being wasted in the UK?

Speaking to the All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) public hearing on COVID vaccines on Tuesday, Prof Pollard said: "As we move to a point where more people are immunized around the world, or have natural infection, the virus will only survive if it is able to make new versions of itself that can still spread. Despite that immunity.

"I think we have to come to terms with the fact that that is going to be the future," he added.

Pollard suggested that while new vaccines may be needed to stop the spread of new variants, they may not be needed to prevent serious illness or hospitalizations.

The hearing heard evidence about how to best roll out coronavirus vaccines.

The hearing heard evidence about how to best roll out coronavirus vaccines.

He said: "At this point, the jury is out on that. All of the vaccines in the trials in those regions where new variants are emerging – we are not seeing a sudden shift where lots of people who are vaccinated are ending up in hospital. They are still being protected from hospitalization."

Pollard said that more data is needed to get a concrete answer, but in the meantime new vaccines must be prepared just in case.

"We might need boosters, we might need tweaks every year, but actually we might not," he said. "We might be generating enough immunity with the current generation of vaccines to stop severe disease."

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2530093]I'm in the States and everyone I know is trying to get the vaccine ASAP. <snip>

I also keep in touch with too many Thai girls ranging from 22 to 55 years. When I mention the vaccine they think about me getting the vaccine so I can travel to Thailand and spend my money. They don't think about them getting the vaccine, it seems out of reach for them.[/QUOTE]Yeah, everyone I know here in the USA either wants to get vaccinated or has had the virus. The vast majority of people that I know have not had the illness although some close friends and family members have. Only the crazies in America would refuse to get it. But the issue is mute because in the not too distant future a proof of vaccination will be required to travel and get on a plane, train, or bus. Thus everyone will have a digital vaccine passport in order to travel.

In BKK, Mini my favorite, was concerned about my health when I told her I was getting the vaccine. To allay her fears I chatted with her as I drove home from the hospital. I think innate fear and some degree of superstition is in the mind of many Thais concerning the vaccine, but this issue is mute as well as the previous issue because the Thai government will require all it's citizens to be vaccinated when the time comes. Mini tells me the vaccination program is supposed to begin in BKK in the spring (April or May). She now wants to be vaccinated after hearing about my experience. But we still don't know which Vaccine will be available in Thailand and this is important.

Lastly, I predict that the quarantine restriction on entry will not be relaxed in Thailand until at least 75% of the population is inoculated although there might be roped off areas of entry like Phuket where visitors are allowed to enter provided they have proof of vaccination, pass the Covid 19 test, and are not allowed to leave the island.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2530171]Lastly, I predict that the quarantine restriction on entry will not be relaxed in Thailand until at least 75% of the population is inoculated although there might be roped off areas of entry like Phuket where visitors are allowed to enter provided they have proof of vaccination, pass the Covid 19 test, and are not allowed to leave the island.[/QUOTE]That would seem to make a lot of sense for Thailand. Vaccinate the people in isolated tourist areas first and then allow vaccinated tourists to return. Need to also vaccinate the workers who left the area because of COVID so they can return. First Phuket. Then Koh Samui. Then ...

Seems that would be a way to safely and quickly get some money coming back to Thailand, assuming the vaccines work as expected.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2530059]Just as well the anti vaxxers weren't influential when vaccines were developed for smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, hepatitis, measles, diphtheria and some other diseases which have pretty much disappeared or been greatly reduced through the use of vaccines.

If not getting a vaccine effected only the individuals making that choice and if these same individuals if they catch a vaccinatable disease have the means to pay for treatment and care (not become a burden on the state) I would say hey it's your right whether to get vaccinated or not.

This is not the situation with contagious viruses. You don't get vaccinated just to protect yourself but also to protect others in your community by firstly reducing the level of transmissibility if you happened to get infected and secondly so that the population can reach a vaccinated level where herd immunity kicks in.[/QUOTE]I received my second Pfizer shot about a week ago without side effects from either dose. I did it for others not just for me. I believe our best chance to make this go away is to vaccinate everybody. I want the world to get back to normal and believe vaccination is our best hope.

[QUOTE=Allover;2530225]I received my second Pfizer shot about a week ago without side effects from either dose. I did it for others not just for me. I believe our best chance to make this go away is to vaccinate everybody. I want the world to get back to normal and believe vaccination is our best hope.[/QUOTE]And the comment you replied to is spot on.

[QUOTE=PuteNut;2530107]Same here, but different order.[/QUOTE]What a wonderful full live you both have, no time to travel or experience this wonderful world?

[QUOTE=TConor;2530002]I have been asking random Thais (not just working girls) if they would take the vaccine if available for free. I am finding 20% yes, 80% NO- but this is a small sample and all done in northern Thai provinces. Maybe if the poll was were taken in Rayong or BKK the results would be different. If you have any data, please chip in /.[/QUOTE]I don't really give a damn if there French or Uk citizens or the idiots in USA don't want it. I was referring to here, Thailand. Sorry I was unclear.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2530024]This is a very sensible answer. Young working women are not high risk from covid and the vaccine does not stop spread. Why would they want it? What's the upside?[/QUOTE]All has to do with numbers. Need about 70-75% of the world to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Without herd immunity, the Covid will continue to infect (and re-infect) over and over. Mostly through those that have not been vaccinated because they are the ones most susceptible to catching it, mutating it and continue to spread it.

Does herd immunity work?. Sure it does, just look what happen when everyone got vaccinated for small pox as kids (for those of us old enough to remember it), Small pox has been around for thousands of years and killed Hundreds of millions throughout history. It no longer exist due to global vaccination. And if I remember correctly, the shot was not voluntary, every school kid had to get the shot. And present and future generations no longer need the small pox vaccination simply because the virus no longer exist in nature. (Govts still keep smallpox virus in labs as a future bio weapon. But that's another story).

Just my take on this.

Cheers.

We have to be aware that the UK kent strain is going to sweep the world and its 70% more transmissable so it will arrive in your area eventually, hence the bad numbers in the UK that is a struggle to reduce. It will take a massive jabbing effort to get it under control worldwide, and the vacinnes are not readily available worldwide to get herd imunity. The israelies will have the earlist info to work ok on.

My wingman just arrived in Thailand. He said he breezed through immigration. He only needed 1 copy of the paperwork, but he had 3 just in case. Many people were arriving without the correct paperwork. He said 1 guy arrived and did not have any paperwork at all.

Now starts his 2 weeks on lockdown. I do not know how you guys are doing that. He has an 18 month old son that he has not seen in 1 year, so I understand his position. Plus he wants to get the key to his condo back from the kid's mom. I sent him with money to pay 6 more months rent for me because I doubt I will return by October when the months I have already paid will be exhausted.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2530634]My wingman just arrived in Thailand. He said he breezed through immigration. He only needed 1 copy of the paperwork, but he had 3 just in case. Many people were arriving without the correct paperwork. He said 1 guy arrived and did not have any paperwork at all.

Now starts his 2 weeks on lockdown. I do not know how you guys are doing that. He has an 18 month old son that he has not seen in 1 year, so I understand his position. Plus he wants to get the key to his condo back from the kid's mom. I sent him with money to pay 6 more months rent for me because I doubt I will return by October when the months I have already paid will be exhausted.[/QUOTE]Hi,

Do you know what paperwork he had to bring Thanks.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2530634]My wingman just arrived in Thailand. He said he breezed through immigration. He only needed 1 copy of the paperwork, but he had 3 just in case. Many people were arriving without the correct paperwork. He said 1 guy arrived and did not have any paperwork at all.

Now starts his 2 weeks on lockdown. I do not know how you guys are doing that. He has an 18 month old son that he has not seen in 1 year, so I understand his position. Plus he wants to get the key to his condo back from the kid's mom. I sent him with money to pay 6 more months rent for me because I doubt I will return by October when the months I have already paid will be exhausted.[/QUOTE]How can people arrive without paperwork? Normally you're not to be allowed aboard the plane if you can't show a shitload of paperwork. I surmise those guys without paperwork flew from airports in Africa or the Middle East where everything goes.

I'm busy jumping through the hoops via the Thai embassy here in Europe right now. No kids, no wife, no ongoing rental, but I have substantial money in the bank in Thailand. I never bothered to set up online banking in Thailand as I considered myself already up to my neck in passwords and banking IDs with my overseas bank accounts. Bad mistake.

Who would have thought back then it would take so long to get back to Thailand? Leaving Thailand in July 2020 I thought everything would be over by October of the same year. Now we're talking October 2021!

Aspirational as with all official forecasts but for what its worth here the latest pronouncements from a senior health official.

February to May will be used to administer 2 million doses of the Sinovac Biotech vaccine, which are due to arrive this month, earmarked for front line medical workers in high-risk areas. During the second phase, June and December, authorities plan to administer 10 million doses monthly using 61 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which will be produced locally by Siam Bioscience. About 1,000 hospitals are being prepared, each able to do 500 doses per day, adding that in the early stages only hospitals with resuscitation areas and equipment would be used Thailand is planning to vaccinate about 60% of the adult population by the end of 2021, to get closer to "herd immunity".

So first, problem with the maths.

(1) 1000 hospitals by 500 daily doses comes to 15 million per month not 10 million.

(2) 61 plus initial 2 million doses would cover 31.5 million people less than half the population. 60% would require 40 million inoculated which is still less than the 70% regarded as a minimum for herd immunity. 70% would require circa 100 million doses.

On the bright side it is at least a plan to get to herd immunity. How this roll out if it happens as planned effects quarantine and other requirements nobody knows but I would hazard a guess and say we are looking at early to mid-2022 to get to arrive at immigration with just your vax cert and you're good to go. Very possible though there will in the interim be a phased relaxing of restrictions, just have to wait and see.

Hello guys!

This is kind of a general post / discussion, but I guess I'll start from this regional forum as it would be my first choice destination.

As pretty much all of us, I'm stuck in this pandemic sh*tshow and looking forward to be travelling again, as I've always done for the past 10 years. I'm a long time world traveller, and in terms of mongering I've been in Asia / Africa / Latin America, always trying to be off the beaten path. It's been fun, but as I get older I guess I am a bit less adventurous, not to mention that due to pandemic a lot of places will be a no-go for a pretty long time.

Let me get to the gist of this post: I am reaching the fuck-you-money that will allow me to leave my full time job, with the aim to start travelling and be free again. I hope that by the end of this year we'll be allowed to traver to Asia again, which I think it will recover much earlier than Latin America and Africa for many reasons.

I've been to Thailand, Vietnam, Cambogia, etc. As a turist, but now I am thinking to relocate there for few months per year, basically when is winter in the north emisphere. My requirements:

- good weather.

- cheap cost of living.

- good stream of pussy (I often pay but I am still reasonably young and good looking, so I am stil able to score in the free-zone. Especially in Latin America as I speak Spanish and Portuguese, but also in Africa using English / French skills.).

- average apartment to live in, nothing luxury but I like to be central and close to amenities.

- good internet as I need to keep up with managing my stuff and money remotely.

Possible answers:

- Thailand, as I think it's the best quality / cost ratio. How much would I need per month to live there, on average? It's the free pussy game still possible or the pay has taken over?

- Vietnam, pro / cons? Internet should be good, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Philippines? Internet most likely very bad, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Other? (Cmabodia, Laos, etc. Or maybe some big cities such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Shangai, Macao, Taipei, etc.).

I know the post seems broad, but we are on ISG so I'd focus the discussion on pay / free pussy availability, the rest I can look it up myself on the web.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2530698]Aspirational as with all official forecasts but for what its worth here the latest pronouncements from a senior health official.

February to May will be used to administer 2 million doses of the Sinovac Biotech vaccine, which are due to arrive this month, earmarked for front line medical workers in high-risk areas. During the second phase, June and December, authorities plan to administer 10 million doses monthly using 61 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, which will be produced locally by Siam Bioscience. About 1,000 hospitals are being prepared, each able to do 500 doses per day, adding that in the early stages only hospitals with resuscitation areas and equipment would be used Thailand is planning to vaccinate about 60% of the adult population by the end of 2021, to get closer to "herd immunity".

So first, problem with the maths.

(1) 1000 hospitals by 500 daily doses comes to 15 million per month not 10 million.

(2) 61 plus initial 2 million doses would cover 31.5 million people less than half the population. 60% would require 40 million inoculated which is still less than the 70% regarded as a minimum for herd immunity. 70% would require circa 100 million doses..[/QUOTE]Thais plan to use Oxford vaccine which is limited on mutations and you will have numerous mutations flying into BKK when things get moving again. Aircraft won't be available to shift large numbers of pax disinclined to fly anywhere for quite some time for fear of a dose in a plane even if they've had a jab. Pilots and crew will be all laid off so it will take time to get aircraft flying again. There's tons of obstacles to get tourism moving again inc raised seat prices and fear of lying for years. Despite a trickle of hard core punters. We don't know what deadly mutants will pop up in the future to deal with. Rolls Royce aero expect it to take 5 years to get moving planes in the sky in any numbers.

[QUOTE=Martin00;2530722]

Possible answers:

- Thailand, as I think it's the best quality / cost ratio. How much would I need per month to live there, on average? It's the free pussy game still possible or the pay has taken over?

- Vietnam, pro / cons? Internet should be good, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Philippines? Internet most likely very bad, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Other? (Cmabodia, Laos, etc. Or maybe some big cities such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Shangai, Macao, Taipei, etc.).[/QUOTE]Since I have only lived in Thailand I can only give you expert advise on Thailand. Not sure what your budget is for Thailand but let me tell you I have spent about 3 times more than I expected to spend since I moved to Thailand permanently in 2016. Of course you can spend much much less than I do but depends how much fun you want to have. Rent can be cheap. The apartments where gogo girls live can be as cheap as 5-6000 baht per month. A more realistic number for most of us will be 10-15 k per month. A newer condo will be around 20-30 k for a 30-35 sqm place. 1 year lease required by most places. Add about 1000 baht per month for hydro and water. I don't eat much street food. Not because I'm against it but I'm accustomed to eating at nicer places so I usually end up at restaurants. You can get away with eating street food for 40-100 baht per meal. Restaurants are comparable to what you would spend in the USA or Europe, if not more. Add 1-200 baht per day on water and fruits. Are freebies available? That will depend on you. If you can get freebies back in your home country then freebies are readily available in Thailand. However, as we all know, nothing is ever free in any country.

Cambodia. I have never lived there but used to visit around 6 times per year so know the PP scene quite well. Rent is surprisingly expensive around the PP RLD. I looked for a place to live back in 2017 and prices ranged from 600-800 USD nothing was a place I would even consider living in. Maybe I just had a crap real estate agent who thought I was loaded. As for girls, PP is a fraction of the cost of Thailand. 50-70 USD overnight plus 10 USD barfine. Girls are extremely clingy out of desperation for money. PP bar scene is very small comparable to putting together all the bars in LK Metro in Pattaya or Patpong in BKK. Food is much cheaper in PP than Thailand but imo not nearly as good. Free pussy in PP. Easy pickings! They want a husband to take them out of their misery.

Vietnam. Limited experience. No idea on rent since I have never looked at the rental market there but if hotel prices are any indication HCM would be a cheap option to live in. Food is delicious and cheap. Problem is options are limited for girls. Buu Vien street is overpriced. Vietnamese girls are beautiful. Just not many who work on bars or massage places in District 1 or the other Districts. I did see a 9 in Da Nang but I couldn't ask for extras because I was with a girl. Freebies. Forget about it but then again being an expat and learning the language of any country may get you places.

Japan, Singapore, Seoul, HK. If you have to ask how much rent is you likely don't want to pay it, not unlike myself. Spent 6 months Spring to Fall, 2019 in HK, Japan, and Seoul. Luckily 2020 was a virus write off because I'm still licking my wounds on how much it costed me. Freebies? Unlikely for a gaijin. Food is delicious and reasonably priced in all countries though if that matters.

Not on your list. Jakarta. Maybe 10 visits since 2016. Beautiful girls. Dirt cheap. Hardly any English by most. Freebies? Too cheap to waste time to try getting Freebies. May be difficult because girls are under strict guard by their mamasans. Food is awful other than mall restaurants. I'm sure you can find cheap rent here but if you want something nice you will pay for it.

Internet is cheap and fantastic in all countries I have mentioned. A quick Google search will direct you to the best ISP in each country.

Of course all this is pre COVID. Post COVID will be completely different on where is the best value to look for girls.

Can you do a paragraph on Malaysia too please? I always trust your judgement. Thanks 😊.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2531023]Since I have only lived in Thailand I can only give you expert advise on Thailand. Not sure what your budget is for Thailand but let me tell you I have spent about 3 times more than I expected to spend since I moved to Thailand permanently in 2016. Of course you can spend much much less than I do but depends how much fun you want to have. Rent can be cheap. The apartments where gogo girls live can be as cheap as 5-6000 baht per month. A more realistic number for most of us will be 10-15 k per month. A newer condo will be around 20-30 k for a 30-35 sqm place. 1 year lease required by most places. Add about 1000 baht per month for hydro and water. I don't eat much street food. Not because I'm against it but I'm accustomed to eating at nicer places so I usually end up at restaurants. You can get away with eating street food for 40-100 baht per meal. Restaurants are comparable to what you would spend in the USA or Europe, if not more. Add 1-200 baht per day on water and fruits. Are freebies available? That will depend on you. If you can get freebies back in your home country then freebies are readily available in Thailand. However, as we all know, nothing is ever free in any country.

Cambodia. I have never lived there but used to visit around 6 times per year so know the PP scene quite well. Rent is surprisingly expensive around the PP RLD. I looked for a place to live back in 2017 and prices ranged from 600-800 USD nothing was a place I would even consider living in. Maybe I just had a crap real estate agent who thought I was loaded. As for girls, PP is a fraction of the cost of Thailand. 50-70 USD overnight plus 10 USD barfine. Girls are extremely clingy out of desperation for money. PP bar scene is very small comparable to putting together all the bars in LK Metro in Pattaya or Patpong in BKK. Food is much cheaper in PP than Thailand but imo not nearly as good. Free pussy in PP. Easy pickings! They want a husband to take them out of their misery.

Vietnam. Limited experience. No idea on rent since I have never looked at the rental market there but if hotel prices are any indication HCM would be a cheap option to live in. Food is delicious and cheap. Problem is options are limited for girls. Buu Vien street is overpriced. Vietnamese girls are beautiful. Just not many who work on bars or massage places in District 1 or the other Districts. I did see a 9 in Da Nang but I couldn't ask for extras because I was with a girl. Freebies. Forget about it but then again being an expat and learning the language of any country may get you places.

Japan, Singapore, Seoul, HK. If you have to ask how much rent is you likely don't want to pay it, not unlike myself. Spent 6 months Spring to Fall, 2019 in HK, Japan, and Seoul. Luckily 2020 was a virus write off because I'm still licking my wounds on how much it costed me. Freebies? Unlikely for a gaijin. Food is delicious and reasonably priced in all countries though if that matters.

Not on your list. Jakarta. Maybe 10 visits since 2016. Beautiful girls. Dirt cheap. Hardly any English by most. Freebies? Too cheap to waste time to try getting Freebies. May be difficult because girls are under strict guard by their mamasans. Food is awful other than mall restaurants. I'm sure you can find cheap rent here but if you want something nice you will pay for it.

Internet is cheap and fantastic in all countries I have mentioned. A quick Google search will direct you to the best ISP in each country.

Of course all this is pre COVID. Post COVID will be completely different on where is the best value to look for girls.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Martin00;2530722]Possible answers:

- Thailand, as I think it's the best quality / cost ratio. How much would I need per month to live there, on average? It's the free pussy game still possible or the pay has taken over?

- Vietnam, pro / cons? Internet should be good, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Philippines? Internet most likely very bad, should be cheap, not sure about pay / free pussy?

- Other? (Cmabodia, Laos, etc. Or maybe some big cities such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Shangai, Macao, Taipei, etc.).[/QUOTE]Thailand hands down. Even my friends that live in big $800/month houses budget $3000/month. My rent is only 4500 baht in South Pattaya, but if I ever retire then I will move into a 10,000 baht place in Jomtien where you get more for your money. I mostly cook or go to cheap places to eat. There are places that you can eat ribs for 150 baht and places where you can eat ribs for 600 baht. You can go to KFC for 150 baht, or you can eat fried chicken on the corner for 10 baht each piece. Pick your own poison.

I have never had a problem getting free chicks although I do not necessarily seek it out. I just meet people and it falls into place like that. There is so much to keep me busy in Thailand that there is never a dull moment.

If not Thailand, then I would be back in South America. My list in particular order is Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Peru.

Vietnam I visited 4 cities over 10 days. Not a place I have to go back to, although it is very clean and one of the best countries I have been to. People are very nice. Everything was centered on the war. I like chicks with shapes and that is not Vietnam.

Philippines dirty, overcrowded, and most are airheads. So if you need stimulating companionship you will be hard pressed to find it there. I was on a flight from Manila to Bangkok in first class on Philippine Air. I asked the lady for Grand Marnier and pineapple juice. When I got my drink it did not have Grand Marnier in it. When the lady came by I handed her my glass and said I asked for Grand Marnier and pineapple. She said sorry sir we do not have pineapple juice. No idea what she thought she was holding in her hand if it was not a glass full of pineapple juice.

Cambodia, Laos? No fucking way. Just look in those threads and see how many posts there are from people that live there. For me Asia is Thailand or bust.

P. S. My cousin lived in Malaysia because his wife was from there. He hated it. It is very prejudice and Islamic (no open fun). My cousin's wife went out to look for a new apartment for them. When they found out she had a little Black kid, they would not rent her the apartment. I have been there twice: once for tourism and once for scuba diving. Sipidan is in my top 5 places to dive. If I ever go back to Malaysia then it will be for diving.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2529392]I am getting my 2nd Moderna shot this week and I am flying to Brazil in roughly 45 days. I realize I am taking a risk. But I don't care if I am wrong about the efficacy of the vaccine or my luck just runs out. I am not going to lose another year to this virus.[/QUOTE]Congratulations! I think you'll be in good shape to go. From what I've read, your chance of getting Covid will be <= 5%, and your chance of getting a serious case will be around 0%. Of the known cases where a vaccinated person has become infected, virtually all were asymptomatic or had mild cases. Good luck!

[QUOTE=YetAnotherGuy;2531186]Congratulations! I think you'll be in good shape to go. From what I've read, your chance of getting Covid will be <= 5%, and your chance of getting a serious case will be around 0%. Of the known cases where a vaccinated person has become infected, virtually all were asymptomatic or had mild cases. Good luck![/QUOTE]Thanks, it was a great relief to get that 2nd dose over with although my arm really hurt the following day. But other than that, there were no side effects and the nurse said it will take another 2 weeks to reach the maximum point of the vaccine's immunity.

I am going to have a great time in Brazil. After all, it has been over 18 months since I left SE Asia and I have a lot of pent-up energy and excess cash to spend. 555. The Brazilian girls are going to love me, and I am going to love them. Ha! I will post my trip reports over in the RF and SP forums.

And I am still hoping to return to BKK and Pattaya in October if the Thai Government lets me come back otherwise, I may just fly back to Brazil in the fall.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2531111]Thailand hands down. Even my friends that live in big $800/month houses budget $3000/month. My rent is only 4500 baht in South Pattaya, but if I ever retire then I will move into a 10,000 baht place in Jomtien where you get more for your money. I mostly cook or go to cheap places to eat. There are places that you can eat ribs for 150 baht and places where you can eat ribs for 600 baht. You can go to KFC for 150 baht, or you can eat fried chicken on the corner for 10 baht each piece. Pick your own poison.

I have never had a problem getting free chicks although I do not necessarily seek it out. I just meet people and it falls into place like that. There is so much to keep me busy in Thailand that there is never a dull moment.

If not Thailand, then I would be back in South America. My list in particular order is Brazil, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Peru.

Vietnam I visited 4 cities over 10 days. Not a place I have to go back to, although it is very clean and one of the best countries I have been to. People are very nice. Everything was centered on the war. I like chicks with shapes and that is not Vietnam.

Philippines dirty, overcrowded, and most are airheads. So if you need stimulating companionship you will be hard pressed to find it there. I was on a flight from Manila to Bangkok in first class on Philippine Air. I asked the lady for Grand Marnier and pineapple juice. When I got my drink it did not have Grand Marnier in it. When the lady came by I handed her my glass and said I asked for Grand Marnier and pineapple. She said sorry sir we do not have pineapple juice. No idea what she thought she was holding in her hand if it was not a glass full of pineapple juice.

Cambodia, Laos? No fucking way. Just look in those threads and see how many posts there are from people that live there. For me Asia is Thailand or bust.

P. S. My cousin lived in Malaysia because his wife was from there. He hated it. It is very prejudice and Islamic (no open fun). My cousin's wife went out to look for a new apartment for them. When they found out she had a little Black kid, they would not rent her the apartment. I have been there twice: once for tourism and once for scuba diving. Sipidan is in my top 5 places to dive. If I ever go back to Malaysia then it will be for diving.[/QUOTE]Including other than SEA.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2531088]Can you do a paragraph on Malaysia too please? I always trust your judgement. Thanks 😊.[/QUOTE]There were 2 main spots to hobby in Kuala Lumpur. Beach Club and Thai Club. Neither great but something to do in KL when you're on business there. One of the clubs shut down permanently a couple of weeks ago. Many Vietnamese girls but not hot like those you can find at Orchard Towers in Singapore. Hottest girl I ever saw at these clubs was a Thai girl. I would never go there to hobby. Decent clean city and good food. Not much to do, Indians very accepted in clubs for any Indians reading this.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2531088]Can you do a paragraph on Malaysia too please? I always trust your judgement. Thanks 😊.[/QUOTE]Not they guy you asked, but I have some Malaysia experience. Kuala Lumpur is great, cheaper than Bangkok for virtually everything except alcohol. Food is great and cheap, never rented an apartment, but with decent hotels for $20/ night (roughly half the Bangkok price), it can't be too much. 90-day stays without a visa are a big benefit too.

Expat-oriented PFP bars are limited and expensive, but there used to be plenty of local spots where you could get a quickie for as low as 30 RM (250 baht), though typically 50-100 RM on the low end and 200 RM midrange (one and done service). That wouldn't even get you the entry fee at an expat place. Plenty of variety to choose from at the low end: mostly Vietnamese, PRC and Indonesian but also Indian, Bangladesh, even had a Sri Lanka-Australian mix once. Very few local Malaysians women for PFP, oddly, but they exist.

This was all during normal times, nobody knows where it would settle after Covid.

I get a sense that dating / freebies wouldn't be as easy as Thailand or Indonesia, as "good girls" in Malaysia often stay within the bubble of their own ethnic group, but it can't be too hard either.

[QUOTE=YetAnotherGuy;2531186]Congratulations! I think you'll be in good shape to go. From what I've read, your chance of getting Covid will be <= 5%, and your chance of getting a serious case will be around 0%. Of the known cases where a vaccinated person has become infected, virtually all were asymptomatic or had mild cases. Good luck![/QUOTE][URL]https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14045628/covid-patient-reinfected-south-african-variant/[/URL]

Mutant strain Covid patient reinfected with South Africa variant in fighting for life in hospital.

Ben Hill.

14 Feb 2021,12:42 Updated: 14 Feb 2021,15:02.

A COVID patient who was reinfected with the South African variant is fighting for his life in hospital.

The 58-year-old man with a history of asthma caught the variant four months after recovering from Covid-19 in France, according to the Clinical Infectious Diseases journal.

[QUOTE=YetAnotherGuy;2531186]Congratulations! I think you'll be in good shape to go. From what I've read, your chance of getting Covid will be <= 5%, and your chance of getting a serious case will be around 0%. Of the known cases where a vaccinated person has become infected, virtually all were asymptomatic or had mild cases. Good luck![/QUOTE][URL]https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/more-people-are-getting-covid-19-twice-suggesting-immunity-wanes-quickly-some[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sharka;2529774]The latest intel on Covid vaccines is not good for any 3rd world country. (And eventually for all of us).

1) most developed countries will certainly hold the vaccines for their citizens to be vaccinated first before mass distribution to 3rd world countries.

2) the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are problematic for 3rd world countries because of storage and shipping issues. (They require specialized deep freezers ex. Pfizer vaccines must be kept under -70 degrees, anything above that and its only good for 24 hrs after).

3) because most 3rd world countries won't get their shots finished perhaps for years, this will allow a lot of time for mutant variants to develop and spread that no current vaccine can stop.

Things are not looking good for planet earth.[/QUOTE]AstraZeneca Vaccine mass produced in India can be stored in regular refrigerator freezer. These can be supplied to countries that does not have facilities to store in cryogenic freezer. They are cheaper as well. The mass production capacity is the biggest. Some SEA countries, Brazil, mexico have already received a batch of the vaccine.

The data available right now is not enough to produce vaccine that can take this disease to eradication level. It is too soon to expect that.

On a side note, third world countries are countries that are neither aligned to US and their allies nor to the communist block of countries such as erstwhile USSR, China. Third world countries are not necessarily impoverished as made out to be. India is a third world nation in the sense it is not aligned to US, west or Russia but is definitely not impoverished and has modern facilities in certain sectors comparable to so called first world countries.

LC.

From reading the articles being quoted the cases being cited are not coming from people who have gotten the vaccine. Yes we are talking about the unknown but in these cases, people who already had the virus the chances or length of reinfection might depend on how severe the first case?

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2531493]On a side note, third world countries are countries that are neither aligned to US and their allies nor to the communist block of countries such as erstwhile USSR, China. Third world countries are not necessarily impoverished as made out to be. India is a third world nation in the sense it is not aligned to US, west or Russia but is definitely not impoverished and has modern facilities in certain sectors comparable to so called first world countries.

LC.[/QUOTE]While that was the definition 30+ years ago. Now its kinda up to the point of view of the speaker. The majority of Indians don't even have access to a toilet, so I would definitely call India a 3rd world country. In SEA Burma and Cambodia definitely are, Thailand is definitely above them in terms of development and infrastructure.

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2531493]AstraZeneca Vaccine mass produced in India can be stored in regular refrigerator freezer......[/QUOTE]I've noticed India's covid cases have declined significantly.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2531570]From reading the articles being quoted the cases being cited are not coming from people who have gotten the vaccine. Yes we are talking about the unknown but in these cases, people who already had the virus the chances or length of reinfection might depend on how severe the first case?[/QUOTE]Another factor would be the type of exposure or "virus load". Not all exposures are the same. But the Israel experience has been a very low infection rate in people who have been vaccinated (. 1% This is more than enough to cause the spread rate to drop below the point where the virus will die out (herd immunity). Also even without the vaccine the virus will not last forever. Despite the fear porn in the media these virus strains never last forever. Covid causes 15% of the common cold in a normal year and has been infecting humans for thousands of years. I find it interesting that some scientists now believe some previous bad flu outbreaks before the ability to identify the virus identification could have been Covid miss-identified as flu. Stay safe.

[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.

I seem to be the only one on Planet Earth who is not an expert on everything to do with Covid. According to the above link. Israel has 10 or so times more infection than Germany. The British PM was talking about herd immunity this time last year. Most are, of course, part of a herd, unable to think. Vaccines / DNA alterers have been rushed into people without the necessary checks and balances. Bill Crappy Software Gates and Tony War Criminal Blair endlessly expound that livestock must take the jab.

The epidemiology experts have been proved wrong time and again on this. Not because they do not know but because they are heavily invested in vaccines and the companies that make them.

Whatever happened to all those Chinese dropping dead? Are Italian churches still packed to the rafters with coffins and rotting corpses? When do services resume?

There is a pandemic, more virulent than flus, which have disappeared. If you eat well, do not liv e with poor people or in an old folk's death home, you should be fine. Wake up and smell the pussy.

[QUOTE=AggieDad1;2531726]Another factor would be the type of exposure or "virus load". Not all exposures are the same. But the Israel experience has been a very low infection rate in people who have been vaccinated (. 1% This is more than enough to cause the spread rate to drop below the point where the virus will die out (herd immunity). Also even without the vaccine the virus will not last forever. Despite the fear porn in the media these virus strains never last forever. Covid causes 15% of the common cold in a normal year and has been infecting humans for thousands of years. I find it interesting that some scientists now believe some previous bad flu outbreaks before the ability to identify the virus identification could have been Covid miss-identified as flu. Stay safe.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turgid;2531716]I've noticed India's covid cases have declined significantly.[/QUOTE]I am seeing that many in India are less vigilant than they were 6 months ago. There are lots of people roaming around without mask and social distancing is difficult to implement. Only good thing is that the recovery rate is good. Maybe something to do with the non exposure to the newer variant or maybe something to do with the food or climate or genes.

Let's hope the current situation improves. Can't wait to travel.

LC.

[QUOTE=IHeartIpa;2531631]While that was the definition 30+ years ago. Now its kinda up to the point of view of the speaker. The majority of Indians don't even have access to a toilet, so I would definitely call India a 3rd world country. [/QUOTE]If you still think India to be a land of snake charmers and doom temple priests or what is shown in slumdog millionaire you are living under some rock. India is a third world country in the correct definition of the term by non aligning to US or communism. Calling India a third world country in a condescending tone shows your ignorance or false arrogance. You are out of tune with world order.

Majority of Indians not having access to toilet? That may have been the situation 30+ years ago. 30+ years ago when free flowing water was available in plenty, people did their business near rivers and washed up. That was a much cleaner way of cleaning up, much more hygienic that your two ply extra soft tissues. Now that waters are drying up and considering safety for women the government has campaign against open defecation and has built multiple toilets. Before government built, there were community toilets. Also, when did toilets become year sticks of sort. Some other ars'e will next say he thinks Thailand should be considered a third world countries because they are a lady-boy driven economy or France should be third world country because they don't speak English. Laughable these pompous fools are.

LC.

I for one consider Thailand to be 3rd world country not because a few months ago I spend a month up at my wife farm after a week I replace the toilet and brought my mother in law into the 21st century.
What blinds everyone and the reason they come is for that pussy, Thailand has many model conveniences for all to see that make them an emerging nation but underneath their leadership thinking is still 3rd world.

Not looking for an argument, only information. Toilet paper is geared to flush down toilets and disintegrate, if the plumbing is "first world". SE Asian toilets often have inferior plumbing and so a bucket is used. Western high or medium rise apartments often have the same problem with water pressure.

My question is Indians and other washing their bum. How is that hygienic? How can you nip out of your clothing shop, have a crap, wash your ass and go back to measuring up your customer? What if you live in a village and have a high fiber diet like I do?

Back in the time of Louis XIV, guys would just drop their pants and crap all over Versailles Palace. So India was not unique.

But what is with bathing your bum? What are we missing?

Japan, prior to the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 ish, had awful or no plumbing and many died of diseases. The Japanese are now gone the other extreme. The Chinese have used their no 2 as fertiliser for thousands of years. Sweden imports the stuff "for fertiliser".

Thank you for your indulgence. I am all ears even though I am on Team Toilet Paper (or banana leaves in a push).

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2531828]If you still think India to be a land of snake charmers and doom temple priests or what is shown in slumdog millionaire you are living under some rock. India is a third world country in the correct definition of the term by non aligning to US or communism. Calling India a third world country in a condescending tone shows your ignorance or false arrogance. You are out of tune with world order.

Majority of Indians not having access to toilet? That may have been the situation 30+ years ago. 30+ years ago when free flowing water was available in plenty, people did their business near rivers and washed up. That was a much cleaner way of cleaning up, much more hygienic that your two ply extra soft tissues. Now that waters are drying up and considering safety for women the government has campaign against open defecation and has built multiple toilets. Before government built, there were community toilets. Also, when did toilets become year sticks of sort. Some other ars'e will next say he thinks Thailand should be considered a third world countries because they are a lady-boy driven economy or France should be third world country because they don't speak English. Laughable these pompous fools are.

LC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2531828]India is a third world country in the correct definition of the term by non aligning to US or communism. Calling India a third world country in a condescending tone shows your ignorance or false arrogance. You are out of tune with world order.[/QUOTE]Two thirds of Indians live in poverty. 68.8% live on less than $2/ day, over 30% live on less than $1. 25/ day. I'd call that third world country standards. Oh, and yes, I've been to India 11 times and travelled extensively throughout the country for work.

[URL]https://www.soschildrensvillages.ca/news/poverty-in-india-602[/URL]

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2531919]Two thirds of Indians live in poverty. 68.8% live on less than $2/ day, over 30% live on less than $1. 25/ day. I'd call that third world country standards. Oh, and yes, I've been to India 11 times and travelled extensively throughout the country for work.

[URL]https://www.soschildrensvillages.ca/news/poverty-in-india-602[/URL][/QUOTE]Having worked there unhappily years ago, I would have to agree. India's per capita GDP ranks number 180 in the world and is approximately $2,104, making it a "middle income," country in the lexicon of development. By contrast, the Philippines, where I live, ranks 158 with a per capita GDP of slightly more than $3,400, and yet by any reasonable definition is a third world country.

There's no hard and fast definition of third world, and the more politically correct term now would be "developing country," but by my standards India has a very long way to go. I couch my definition in terms of quality of and access to education, gender equality, access to quality health care, quality of infrastructure, percentage of the population living in poverty, average life expectancy, infant and maternal mortality rates per 100,000 population and percentage of children living at or below the poverty lines. Using these criteria, India surely qualifies.

GE.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;2531980]Having worked there unhappily years ago, I would have to agree. India's per capita GDP ranks number 180 in the world and is approximately $2,104, making it a "middle income," country in the lexicon of development. By contrast, the Philippines, where I live, ranks 158 with a per capita GDP of slightly more than $3,400, and yet by any reasonable definition is a third world country.

There's no hard and fast definition of third world, and the more politically correct term now would be "developing country," but by my standards India has a very long way to go. I couch my definition in terms of quality of and access to education, gender equality, access to quality health care, quality of infrastructure, percentage of the population living in poverty, average life expectancy, infant and maternal mortality rates per 100,000 population and percentage of children living at or below the poverty lines. Using these criteria, India surely qualifies.

GE.[/QUOTE]Excellent post on what development means. If I may I would add rule of law, independent judiciary, press freedom, level of corruption, access to opportunity. A more debatable perhaps more contentious issue is whether it is a true democracy and whether human rights are constitutionally guaranteed.

Four people in Oregon contract Covid-19 after receiving both doses of vaccine.

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/four-people-oregon-contract-covid-185954081.html[/URL]

Health officials in Oregon are investigating four cases where people contracted the coronavirus after receiving both doses of the vaccine.

The symptoms of the four individuals range from asymptomatic to mild, Oregon's Health Authority said in a release on Friday.

"We are working with our local and federal public health partners to investigate and determine case origin. Genome sequencing is underway, and we expect results next week. " the agency said.

These individuals were referred to as "breakthrough cases" because they got sick with the novel virus at least 14 days after receiving the second dose of the Covid-19 vaccine.

The Health Authority said that such cases were not "unexpected" during the pandemic. "Clinical trials of both vaccines presently in use included breakthrough cases. In those cases, even though the participants got Covid-19, the vaccines reduced the severity of illness," the agency said.

Two of the cases were discovered in Yamhill County, and two others are in Lane County. Local health officials were now looking to determine the origin of these cases to provide the public with more information.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8kodphRkAc[/URL]

Here is an Isaan lady finding a new use for rice straw. Her granny is better looking than most Pattaya hookers and harder working too. Work like this would be good for the go go girls who have lost their jobs but it would entail work and the starfish lot have an aversion to that. It is a shame bright ladies like her lack the finances to make a go of projects such as this but I guess it is the same the world over.

Looked at the 3 lists on Wikipedia.

Thailand ranks 77,82, 83.

India 142 on all lists.

Japan 22,27, 27.

South Korea 26,31, 31.

Against my stereotypical viewpoint, I had thought Irish people were poor yet they rank 3, 5, 5. Higher than USA, England, Germany, Singapore on all charts. Guess I should have worked in Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2532051][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8kodphRkAc[/URL]

Here is an Isaan lady finding a new use for rice straw.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that interesting piece of education.

[QUOTE=Martin00;2530722]Hello guys!

This is kind of a general post / discussion, but I guess I'll start from this regional forum as it would be my first choice destination.

As pretty much all of us, I'm stuck in this pandemic sh*tshow and looking forward to be travelling again, as I've always done for the past 10 years. I'm a long time world traveller, and in terms of mongering I've been in Asia / Africa / Latin America, always trying to be off the beaten path. It's been fun, but as I get older I guess I am a bit less adventurous, not to mention that due to pandemic a lot of places will be a no-go for a pretty long time.

Let me get to the gist of this post: I am reaching the fuck-you-money that will allow me to leave my full time job, with the aim to start travelling and be free again. I hope that by the end of this year we'll be allowed to traver to Asia again, which I think it will recover much earlier than Latin America and Africa for many reasons.
[/QUOTE]It's thailand and the choice is barely a choice. Its the only realistic option unless you have some special circumstance that makes a place particularly attractive, like having family or friends in an area or, I dunno, but it seems like that's not a thing for you.

Thailand is quite reasonably priced, western enough, and modern. The P4 P scene is easily the best in Asia, if not in the world, even with all of the naysayers and old timers. In Asia nothing else even comes close, particularly for the price. If you could afford to be banging supermodel escorts, you wouldn't be asking about Thailand on ISG. Plus I mean, you're in Thailand and there's plenty to do and see. Thailand is really the gem of the mix with a lot of stuff going on at a great price, English is spoken, tons to do, and killer girlie scene. Plus so many westerners and places catering to westerns to make transitions easy. If it matters, Thailand is also of course very safe and stable (even with the recent political unrest). On cost -- yes its cheap, but expect to pay much more than you think. You'll be on the upper end of estimates, then break it. You can eat cheap food all day or get a cheap ass apartment-- but you won't, and it all adds up. This kinda goes for all over of course, but thailand in there's cheap and a big(er) gap to the next level

Vietnam is interesting, but if you're looking for a sex scene, that's not a thing there anything like Thailand or a mongering spot. It exists for sure, but it ain't built up as an industry in thailand and likely never will be due to the govt. Vietnam is cheaper of course, but it would better for a fund trip or like a 3 month stay than actually living there. Cambodia or Laos is just a no and we don't need to go further than that. Philippines would only be an option if there as something special about the Philippines to you, otherwise its simply a bad option compared to being in Thailand on every level, a bit shitty, dirty, overcrowded and hectic.

I will say for thailand though, if you're interested in the sex scene, it means you live in Bangkok or Pattaya most likely. Ko Samui or Phuket could work (Phuket sucks balls though), if you want to be in the south. Chiang Mai, in the north, which is an awesome city, doesn't really have much of a scene. Bangkok has an MP or two on like every soi of sukhumvit with attractive girls that are willing to do anything you want for 2500 baht, with ease like you're walking into McDonalds and ordering a Big Mac meal. Thats a god damn rare commodity. The old days of the all you can fuck FKKs in Germany are kinda the only value comparison, but most of those were an absolute ***** to get to. In Bangkok you open your door and you're there, then you eat at a great restaurant, have a beer and everything is good.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2531905]
My question is Indians and other washing their bum. How is that hygienic? How can you nip out of your clothing shop, have a crap, wash your ass and go back to measuring up your customer? [/QUOTE]Indian Food are generally Spicy. It tastes good when you eat, but what happens the next day morning? Your butt-hole is on fire. What cools best? Water or TP?

Indian or Asian toilets are mostly squat and do. The indian Attire (both men and women) allows clothes to be tucked easily to keep them from getting wet. The squat will also force people to complete the activity quickly. No browsing cell phones in that position. The position also best suits natural bowel movement. The squating position makes it easy to wash without soiling the cloth as the clothes are already above waisteline. The water falls into the bowl after cleaning the A-hole.

Your tailor must have lifted his garments, taken a crap, washed up with his left hand and later washed up his hands with soap, dried his hands and came back to take your measurement mostly using his right hand. Indian thought process says Left hand (Mostly non-dominant hand), to be used for unclean activities washing up after toilet, pick up some dirty stuff like dust bin. Right hand (Mostly dominant), used for clean activities including eating, greeting, receiving or giving money or things as a show of respect.

Which cleans better? Water of TP? If TP cleans better why not wash vessels with TP? Why not use tp to clean your face without using water. TP may still leave a thin film of excreta matter around your bum hole. It may just spreads it around and putting more pressure to clean up may hurts your delicate parts. Water makes it squeaky clean. Before, Indians mostly use their non dominant hand to clean and also wash their hands after toilet, now they use bidets / faucets. Also, For most Indians its psychological that without water their toilet routine is never complete. A modern indian uses the water to clean and TP to dry. Personally, the first thing I normally do when I check the hotel pics is to confirm if the toilet has faucets. I have also never understood the rush to buy toilet paper before the pandemic. Anyway, To each, his own.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2531905]What if you live in a village and have a high fiber diet like I do?
[/QUOTE]In a village in India, you will not find a toilet paper roll in shops. Your high fiber content food also ensures that there is decent traffic in your lower interstine. You should be more careful about the hygine of your spot where the sun does not shine.

The Americans have given Biden a chance, You can give the water Bidet a chance. Your bum hole may thank you. Don't be shy, try it once.

LC.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2531905]Not looking for an argument, only information. Toilet paper is geared to flush down toilets and disintegrate, if the plumbing is "first world". SE Asian toilets often have inferior plumbing and so a bucket is used. Western high or medium rise apartments often have the same problem with water pressure.

My question is Indians and other washing their bum. How is that hygienic? How can you nip out of your clothing shop, have a crap, wash your ass and go back to measuring up your customer? What if you live in a village and have a high fiber diet like I do?.[/QUOTE]Not looking to argue either my friend but ever heard of washing your hands after you use the bathroom, whether you used toilet paper or just water? That's why they have sinks and soap dispensers in the toilets. It's not as if when you use toilet paper you can now start serving customers at the local mcdonald's.

The measuring your customer comment was hilarious though, I couldn't stop laughing at that one.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2532026]Excellent post on what development means. If I may I would add rule of law, independent judiciary, press freedom, level of corruption, access to opportunity. A more debatable perhaps more contentious issue is whether it is a true democracy and whether human rights are constitutionally guaranteed.[/QUOTE]Interesting stuff! I guess the poster who said it depends on the point of view of the speaker was on to something. To you point though, I've been to Dubai, very modern place. Can't out my finger on why I still think it's a third world country, probably a combination of what you mentioned.

[URL]https://www.insider.com/are-bidets-are-healthier-than-toilet-paper-2019-8[/URL]

I have used squat toilets in Thailand and elsewhere after a hooker showed me the drill. Toilets, squat or otherwise, can be hard if you don't know hot to operate. I have been on squat share diving boats with no toilet paper and I cannot see how that could be clean or tidy.

Toilet paper is the only product designed to disintegrate in the sewage. Kitchen paper, wet wipes etc are all bad ju ju. Ditto condoms and tampons which women flush down.

I cannot see bidets working in modern societies. Yes, the bum is the garbage area out back and lumps do get left there. But there is a price to pay for everything.

How would you explain food poisoning, the infamous Delhi Belly?

Some conventions are good: the Eastern habit of taking shoes off indoors, eating dogs and so on but modern Western society has a different beat. Left hand, right hand, too confusing. Modern plumbing would set the pace a lot.

As regards spicy food, that is to kill bugs. It is the same in all hot countries. There are Nigerians who eat an almost all fiber diet. Fresh market for toilet paper there.

Hoarding is an interesting thing. Symptoms of a weak society, I think. That said, I am well stocked in toilet paper. It is the simply the way I shop.

Food for thought at least. Most of us are tourists, no matter how long we stay. The worst offenders are those who pretend to understand Buddhism or ways their people were not raised with. I guess bum washing is beyond me, unless I changed dress codes and much else as well.

Anyway, thanks for the info. Food for thought.

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2532199]Indian Food are generally Spicy. It tastes good when you eat, but what happens the next day morning? Your butt-hole is on fire. What cools best? Water or TP?

Indian or Asian toilets are mostly squat and do. The indian Attire (both men and women) allows clothes to be tucked easily to keep them from getting wet. The squat will also force people to complete the activity quickly. No browsing cell phones in that position. The position also best suits natural bowel movement. The squating position makes it easy to wash without soiling the cloth as the clothes are already above waisteline. The water falls into the bowl after cleaning the A-hole.

Your tailor must have lifted his garments, taken a crap, washed up with his left hand and later washed up his hands with soap, dried his hands and came back to take your measurement mostly using his right hand. Indian thought process says Left hand (Mostly non-dominant hand), to be used for unclean activities washing up after toilet, pick up some dirty stuff like dust bin. Right hand (Mostly dominant), used for clean activities including eating, greeting, receiving or giving money or things as a show of respect..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2531919]Two thirds of Indians live in poverty. 68.8% live on less than $2/ day, over 30% live on less than $1. 25/ day. I'd call that third world country standards. Oh, and yes, I've been to India 11 times and travelled extensively throughout the country for work.

[URL]https://www.soschildrensvillages.ca/news/poverty-in-india-602[/URL][/QUOTE]You have quoted a website which is enticing you to donate. Will you donate if you are told only 30% are below poverty line. Yes 30% is huge and the 225 million people under poverty line as designated by World Bank strengthens your case. I am no finance expert, but what is not being considered is that Cost of living in India is pretty low. $2 in rural India is comparable to $20 in rural Germany? How you may ask, It is because food and other essentials cost much less. I argue that only if you pull up the rural indian and transpose him to rural Germany and expect him to survive with that $2 he earned and spend it on german living, it will be an unfair ask. Put him in India where his requirements are locally met, he would not be that badly off. Basic facilities and necessities are subsidised for the poor in India. Also Indians have a money saving mentality. They try to save for a rainy day and do not blow away their money as soon as they get it.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;2531980]Having worked there unhappily years ago, I would have to agree. India's per capita GDP ranks number 180 in the world and is approximately $2,104, making it a "middle income," country in the lexicon of development. By contrast, the Philippines, where I live, ranks 158 with a per capita GDP of slightly more than $3,400, and yet by any reasonable definition is a third world country.

There's no hard and fast definition of third world, and the more politically correct term now would be "developing country," but by my standards India has a very long way to go. I couch my definition in terms of quality of and access to education, gender equality, access to quality health care, quality of infrastructure, percentage of the population living in poverty, average life expectancy, infant and maternal mortality rates per 100,000 population and percentage of children living at or below the poverty lines. Using these criteria, India surely qualifies.

GE.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2532080]Looked at the 3 lists on Wikipedia.

Thailand ranks 77,82, 83.

India 142 on all lists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita[/QUOTE]All the above are factually correct. Lets see another perspective.

Education:

India has one of the highest number of graduates coming out of technical colleges. Cost of Education is less. Students are not burdened with Student loans unlike in USA. His salary after getting the job will help his family getting out of poverty. In India, parents sponsor their kids education and when the kid starts earning, they support their parents during their old age. So if one person in the family breaks the shakle of poverty and gets out, the entire family is generally pulled out. Indians also send back money if working abroad.

Health care:

Government hospitals are poor, but almost every town has one or more hospitals run by some charitable organization or some temples or godman provides medical facilities at very affordable rates. Cost of Laser Eye surgery using the latest equipment in one such organization is less than $500 both eyes and cost of one dialysis session is less than $20. Which developed country can afford to give it at such costs. Obamacare has ensured that a person with throat infection can be billed $28000. How is Indian hospitals able to afford to stay in business? India does it by using its biggest so called weakness. Population. Like a wholesaler, these hospitals cater to more than 10 k patience per month? I am not exagerating. Consultation fees are less than 1 dollar and the extra is only the medicines in most cases of routine checkups. They also don't order unnecessary scans. No corporate intervention thankfully. The entire district / county is covered. Your access to high quality hospitals is covered here. India is getting known for its cost effective medical treatment and is on of the largest medical tourism destination.

India is also the largest supplier of generic medicines / vaccines. USA wanted HCQ to stem covid during initial period. Boom, it arrived from India. Moderna, Pfizer behind schedule producing vaccines, but India has already shipped multiple countries. The tier one countries have booked the vaccines and only thinking about themselves. India is sending free vaccine to others along with supplying their own front line workers.

We are not even talking about Indias space capabilities. This is not your regular "Third World Country" waiting for freebies from First world countries. Developing country yes. Need to take care of its own more, Yes. Is it in track? Definitely yes. Will it meet the Western standards of First World status, Never, Not our style. Ultimately, India has a problem of plenty. This problem has allowed it to have its required facilities and amenities while maintaing a low cost of living. These GDP, PPP all may sound good in paper, not scalable to the population of India or most of SEA. It only helps another opportunist to open up a website and collect your donation. You must be aware that almost all big NGO spend 70% of their funds on their corporate maintenance and only 30% reaches the intended target.

[URL]https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/india-has-highest-number-of-people-living-below-poverty-line-world-bank/story/238085.html[/URL]

[URL]http://cbsnews.com/news/cost-of-health-care-routine-doctor-visit-for-a-sore-throat-results-in-a-28000-medical-bill/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-sends-22-9-mn-doses-of-covid-19-vaccines-to-20-countries-more-in-pipeline-101613142400644.html[/URL]

Why are we even discussing this. Gosh.

LC.

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2532227]Education:

India has one of the highest number of graduates coming out of technical colleges. Cost of Education is less. Students are not burdened with Student loans unlike in USA. His salary after getting the job will help his family getting out of poverty. In India, parents sponsor their kids education and when the kid starts earning, they support their parents during their old age. So if one person in the family breaks the shakle of poverty and gets out, the entire family is generally pulled out. Indians also send back money if working abroad.
[/QUOTE]Sadly it also has a very corrupt education system. We've all seen the photos of parents outside of exam rooms pushing the answers into the rooms. I've worked with plenty of Indian graduates and I have doubted how some of them actually graduted. This is not just confined to India though, I've come across this elsewhere. I think it's even becoming an issue in Western countries that have turned higher education into a business. I've heard of lecturers in Australia being pressured to not fail students because the uni makes too much money from overseas students. In one case I heard about, a lecturer wasn't allowed to fail a student who couldn't speak English very well but was studying a Master fo Englist Lit!

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2532251]I've worked with plenty of Indian graduates and I have doubted how some of them actually graduted. [/QUOTE]I have worked directly with several Indian graduates, most were educated in USA. They ranged from among the worst I've ever seen to among the best. Very much like you would find with any other nationality.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2532251]I've heard of lecturers in Australia being pressured to not fail students because the uni makes too much money from overseas students. In one case I heard about, a lecturer wasn't allowed to fail a student who couldn't speak English very well but was studying a Master fo Englist Lit! [/QUOTE]I confirm that this is correct.

The basic issue here is entitled Western marshmallows losing out to Indian mongers and responding with their usual racism or personal anecdotes.

India is almost 20% of the world's population. Microsoft, Ericson and so on use Indian engineers extensively, so if they don't have any great problem, why should entitled Westerners, who come from countries with their own extremes of wealth and poverty?

There is also Western imperialist superiority complexes which shine through here. They really think they are God's gift.

Indians, in general, move to a different beat but so do many others. They come, in big numbers, to Thailand on their own budget and with their own friends to do things their way. Westerners see themselves losing out to them.

The SOS site you cite seems to be as big as mcDonald's. I regard them and others as big scam jobs full opf folk with dubious attitudes to kids. Show me an NGO big wig and I will show you a scammer and / or a sex pervert.

During the tsunami, India said it did not need help and its blue water navy (which China did not then have) was sending aid abroad, to the Maldives, Sri Lanka etc. Still, Western gangster NGOs were collecting funds "to send to India".

[QUOTE=LooseCannon;2532227]You have quoted a website which is enticing you to donate. Will you donate if you are told only 30% are below poverty line. Yes 30% is huge and the 225 million people under poverty line as designated by World Bank strengthens your case. I am no finance expert, but what is not being considered is that Cost of living in India is pretty low. $2 in rural India is comparable to $20 in rural Germany? How you may ask, It is because food and other essentials cost much less. I argue that
LC.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2532195]Cambodia or Laos is just a no and we don't need to go further than that.[/QUOTE]Cambodia is great Man, don't be so categoric. And Khmer girl are very lovely.

If I couldn't keep track of which hand was my left, I probably wouldn't be pointing it out.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2532332]The basic issue here is entitled Western marshmallows losing out to Indian mongers and responding with their usual racism or personal anecdotes.

India is almost 20% of the world's population. Microsoft, Ericson and so on use Indian engineers extensively, so if they don't have any great problem, why should entitled Westerners, who come from countries with their own extremes of wealth and poverty?

There is also Western imperialist superiority complexes which shine through here. They really think they are God's gift.

Indians, in general, move to a different beat but so do many others. They come, in big numbers, to Thailand on their own budget and with their own friends to do things their way. Westerners see themselves losing out to them.

The SOS site you cite seems to be as big as mcDonald's. I regard them and others as big scam jobs full opf folk with dubious attitudes to kids. Show me an NGO big wig and I will show you a scammer and / or a sex pervert.

During the tsunami, India said it did not need help and its blue water navy (which China did not then have) was sending aid abroad, to the Maldives, Sri Lanka etc. Still, Western gangster NGOs were collecting funds "to send to India".[/QUOTE]I being a minority have no problems with people coming to the USA Legally and that includes Indians when it comes to the tech world particularly in Silicon Valley the use of H1 B visa is being abused by companies like Google claiming a shortage of train tech workers from the USA Currently these Tech companies make up something like 40% if not more. What started as something good turn out to be more with wages although they are trained there is clearly a bias in the hiring practice with the use of these visas, whenever a politician brings up the number all their lobbyist go to work. I'm not sure your assessment of western imperialist superiorty complex is proper since it can apply to many countries I think your bias against the USA Is what is shining a bit here.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2532919]I being a minority have no problems with people coming to the USA Legally and that includes Indians when it comes to the tech world particularly in Silicon Valley the use of H1 B visa is being abused by companies like Google claiming a shortage of train tech workers from the USA Currently these Tech companies make up something like 40% if not more. What started as something good turn out to be more with wages although they are trained there is clearly a bias in the hiring practice with the use of these visas, whenever a politician brings up the number all their lobbyist go to work. I'm not sure your assessment of western imperialist superiorty complex is proper since it can apply to many countries I think your bias against the USA Is what is shining a bit here.[/QUOTE]When compared to the Indian outsourcing companies that pay less and also take a cut at the same time, it is difficult to see how Google abuses the system when the pay is $100 K+. These companies don't pay engineers based on their visa type.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2532945]When compared to the Indian outsourcing companies that pay less and also take a cut at the same time, it is difficult to see how Google abuses the system when the pay is $100 K+. These companies don't pay engineers based on their visa type.[/QUOTE]That is where you are dead wrong! Have you been to Silicone Valley where companies like Google are based? I was born and raised in S. F. Have many nephews and nieces working in the tech world a few use to be with Google and Microsoft many left for other smaller startups. You go wait outside some of these larger techs and it is like Little India 100,000 doesn't buy you anything in this area or in S. F. In 2016, I needed to return to S. F. To care for my mother our family building is located in prime real estate our neighbors were all transients from India renting rooms in a house for 2000 USD each share bath and kitchen. Each morning the Google Bus would put up at the corner and take them to work which was an hour away.

Based on what these companies are making they should be paying much more but these H1 B visas so many have diluted the pay scale it is like a sweatshop then you have the leaders who average 500,000 plus. After my mother enters a senior care facility the family put the building on the market two weeks later we got 3 offers all over 4 million USD, the building was brick built-in 1896 with no foundation, and needed a half-million in upgrades. Six months later it was turned into a 12 room rental spread over 3 floors with a shared kitchen and bath on each floor. Each room rented for 2500 a month and there was a waiting list prior to the pandemic. The Google bus driver a Teamster makes 60,000 USD and sleeps in a mobile traitor in the parking lot.

Yes, hundred plus grand is a lot of money but the pay should be much higher the visas have diluted the pay scale to a point the entry jobs are paid less and will stay that way until the visas number are reduced tough to believe with the number of people in this country that they can't find enough homegrown takers for these jobs. These jobs aren't like picking fruits in Central Valley in California because Americans don't want the jobs. Should it be any surprise that few of the CEO is Indian? I'm not bashing Indians it's the way the game is played and sadly Americans are losing.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2533035]That is where you are dead wrong! Have you been to Silicone Valley where companies like Google are based? I was born and raised in S. F. Have many nephews and nieces working in the tech world a few use to be with Google and Microsoft many left for other smaller startups. You go wait outside some of these larger techs and it is like Little India 100,000 doesn't buy you anything in this area or in S. F. In 2016, I needed to return to S. F. To care for my mother our family building is located in prime real estate our neighbors were all transients from India renting rooms in a house for 2000 USD each share bath and kitchen. Each morning the Google Bus would put up at the corner and take them to work which was an hour away.

Based on what these companies are making they should be paying much more but these H1 B visas so many have diluted the pay scale it is like a sweatshop then you have the leaders who average 500,000 plus. After my mother enters a senior care facility the family put the building on the market two weeks later we got 3 offers all over 4 million USD, the building was brick built-in 1896 with no foundation, and needed a half-million in upgrades. Six months later it was turned into a 12 room rental spread over 3 floors with a shared kitchen and bath on each floor. Each room rented for 2500 a month and there was a waiting list prior to the pandemic. The Google bus driver a Teamster makes 60,000 USD and sleeps in a mobile traitor in the parking lot.

Yes, hundred plus grand is a lot of money but the pay should be much higher the visas have diluted the pay scale to a point the entry jobs are paid less and will stay that way until the visas number are reduced tough to believe with the number of people in this country that they can't find enough homegrown takers for these jobs. These jobs aren't like picking fruits in Central Valley in California because Americans don't want the jobs. Should it be any surprise that few of the CEO is Indian? I'm not bashing Indians it's the way the game is played and sadly Americans are losing.[/QUOTE]I can be dead wrong when we are talking about go go bars in Pattaya. This is a complete opposite case. The tech worker shortage is real. That is why so many engineers are hired a year before their graduation.

How many Indian managers or CEOs have you worked with in the valley?

You know an engineer can get offers from multiple large companies at the same time, right? I don't know how large companies manage to all collude together so they all can underpay engineers and not be competitive while there is a shortage when they can afford it like you stated.

One can rent a one bedroom for that amount in South Bay. Right now, a newly built 3 bedroom with security can be rented for under $3 K in the city. Unless someone like the city life, there is no good reason to live farther, and pay more for less in the city and take gbus to work.

How Americans are losing when H1B visa holders are paying taxes here and eventually become permanent residents. Or do you think just outsource the jobs offshore like manufacturing is better?

Apparently, there are bars in Thailand with ladies working there who are eager to please.

On February 22, the authorities will decide whether to loosen restrictions on bars imposed due to COVID-19.

[QUOTE=Explorer8939;2533221]Apparently, there are bars in Thailand with ladies working there who are eager to please.[/QUOTE]True, but you'll either need to be really drunk, or do some serious sorting, depending on your taste.

Hopefully it officially opens up soon.

Walking down Soi 4 at night now is surreal, compared to pre-covid.

[QUOTE=Bunky;2533515]That surprises me. After reading dozens of your poorly written posts I had assumed you grew up outside the United States and English was not your mother tongue.

I realize that many gentlemen who normally would be in Thailand at this time of year are not there now. So I expect some diminution in the ISG signal-to-noise ratio. But tedious debates over American immigration policy and anecdotes about the real estate market in the bay area are well and truly off topic. Can we get back to discussing the approved subjects please?[/QUOTE]Harsh language coming!

The best thing you can do for your racist ass is to not read the fucking reports if it doesn't live up to your standards! Remember since you write so well maybe you can try your best to comprehend the rules that writing and spelling aren't a priority! Second, who died and make you the moderator and what is supposed to be " off Topic or not " in a general thread. Like the majority, we post if quoted I respond and give my opinion this isn't a writing contest you obviously as smart as you want people to think you are can't seem to understand that simple fact. As bad as my writing you understood every word of it so that doesn't say much for yourself! But guys like you can't help themselves the closet racist you are comes out! The conversation had ended it was something like 2-4 post silence from the two of us was to end agree to disagree until you stuck your foot in your mouth!

See I'm really more American than you think although I don't write well that doesn't stop me from writing or expressing my opinion. It wasn't because the system didn't provide me with an opportunity to have one I just didn't know it at the time and it didn't help when I started down the wrong path when started it took a while to get back on track. See, when I started going to middle school outside of Chinatown with my cousins the short route was going through the Irish and Italian neighborhood at the park we got stopped and pick on and our lunch money was taken. My cousin rain or shine took the long route I gave them my lunch money each day stubbornly I continue to take the short route although I fought and got off a few good punches I got jumped so each day I showed up to school late and bloody the teachers / principal knew what was happening although I never snitched knew.

One day I got a hold of my older brother pellet gun loaded when stopped like each day before I pull it out I saw white boys run so fast and jump the leader got it right in the face close range when he went down I unloaded the clip on him and stomp on his hands for good measure. Just happen the prick father was a cop for the SFPD in Juvenile court the judge gave me 60 days said if I apologize he would reduce the sentence I basically said go fuck themselves.

So this was a start for me down the road and the court system as a 1st generation Asian and most family members speaking at home native tongue kids like me with low grades due to many reasons were placed in ESL classes the rest of my school life once in tough to get out. Do I blame the system No do I blame the white kids No it was really on me! I know my shortcomings heard it from fuckers my whole life from guys like you growing up " go back to where you came from, correcting grammar and pronunciation when they don't like someone or what is being said they always head in that direction. In spite of people like you, I'm still here standing and talking just like America taught me. In spite of all my shortcomings academically and record I was able to right the ship a bit and finish school, go to City and State college to get a degree.

Saying what you said if you expect me to hide and put my head in the sand feel embarrassed and run and not post you have missed something here! There is a reason I use the handle LBM how I got that is for another time on the general thread. In the end, I will post whatever I like whenever I like within the guidelines of the forum and if you don't like it then use the ignore button like in general as what most cowards like you do on the internet. You opened a can or worms now I will be watching you slip prepare to fall curious " what is the approved subject of a general thread "?

My apologies to all the other members whether I agree or not particularly to the ISG Moderators I'm not trying to be argumentive but I feel if someone got the balls to call me or anyone out then they deserve a response!

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2532280]I have worked directly with several Indian graduates, most were educated in USA. They ranged from among the worst I've ever seen to among the best. Very much like you would find with any other nationality.[/QUOTE]I have to agree with this (mostly if referring to India).

I also worked with many Thais with my job at home and in US contract jobs. And maybe its just bad luck that the bunch I worked with are all lazy asses just wanted to be paid and not really giving a shit about the quality of their jobs. What's worse is they would take shortcuts and do inferior work that others had to put in extra time to fix. So, unfortunately the Thais I worked with in the past (about 30 of them) range from bad to really terrible. And if you are wondering why they were not fired for slacking off or simply not doing their jobs correctly, they were ALL union workers. From what I understand it, its difficult, if not impossible to fire them. Just my experiences as yours could differ if you were luckier than me.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2532251] I think it's even becoming an issue in Western countries that have turned higher education into a business. I've heard of lecturers in Australia being pressured to not fail students because the uni makes too much money from overseas students. In one case I heard about, a lecturer wasn't allowed to fail a student who couldn't speak English very well but was studying a Master fo Englist Lit![/QUOTE]This is indeed shocking and hope its not true.

I can't imagine giving out degrees to totally incompetent idiotic grads. Maybe I don't care as much if its business degree or accountants but to pass someone for Any medical degrees or structural engineer, that can potentially kill Or harm many people?

Even though they break the rules with their long and labourious posts, the main thing is sloth. They are too lazy to make an effort to express themselves clearly. On line hookers do a much better job. Also, they have nothing else going on in their lives and think we have to hear about what plucky heroes they were back in the 1930's with Shirley Temple, Mickey Rooney and the others Boyztown was named after.

[QUOTE=Detwing1;2533531]True, but you'll either need to be really drunk, or do some serious sorting, depending on your taste.

Hopefully it officially opens up soon.

Walking down Soi 4 at night now is surreal, compared to pre-covid.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sharka;2533622]I have to agree with this (mostly if referring to India).

I also worked with many Thais with my job at home and in US contract jobs. And maybe its just bad luck that the bunch I worked with are all lazy asses just wanted to be paid and not really giving a shit about the quality of their jobs. What's worse is they would take shortcuts and do inferior work that others had to put in extra time to fix. So, unfortunately, the Thais I worked with in the past (about 30 of them) range from bad to really terrible. And if you are wondering why they were not fired for slacking off or simply not doing their jobs correctly, they were ALL union workers. From what I understand it, its difficult, if not impossible to fire them. Just my experiences as yours could differ if you were luckier than me.[/QUOTE]I wonder whether to check with Bunky before responding since he has a list of topic that feel belongs in the general thread or whether the topic could be anything as long it is well written to suit him? Oh well, fuck him.

I'm a Union man the reason with my background I could get a decent paying job even with my half-ass BA degree. I made a living being in the Union (private sector) the last 20 I had a dual role and that was a Lead and Union Chairman for a number of cities on the West Coast. When I was first hired I was a rare breed but I was no slacker because of my work ethic many more follow I was asked constantly when an opening came up do you know any family or friends? I joked you know homegrown Asian like me working in labor are rare those like me screw up in school. When it comes to Unions (my experience and opinion) it is the management and supervisor who don't know the contract and how it ties into company policy the reason I never lost a case in arbitration even when I hated the Union member who I was helping. In virtually all hearings my defense was the supervisor didn't follow company policy in disciplining the employee once that happens it is monkey see monkey do. Basically, many supervisors play favorites and if you keep your eyes and ears open it goes on daily.

When I became Union Chairperson of my station I also was a Lead basically a supervisor but I'm a member of the Union. I pretty much laid the law down and that included the other Leads first and foremost it was to take care of the company and customer first. I already knew who the labor fakers were hiding behind the Union for years my first duty was to request all their employee files I was doing this to head off and save their jobs before they got in trouble. I wasn't popular with management nor with many of my own members but my goal was to come to work every day for the company instead of spending hours on Union business defending a bunch of losers giving the Union a bad name. I believed in serving the company first by doing so if they profit means more jobs for guys like me who screw up their life. Years later the stations assigned to me had no employee problems.

In spite of not being able to write well, I wrote a few hundred grievances and the arbitrator had no problem reading the arguments. I know laziness comes in all colors and sizes but from my experience especially in labor, the majority of them happen to be white many of my supervisors, managers I've worked under had it all on paper they couldn't carry anyone's jockstrap. Sadly many that got let go after 9/11 head TSA in the West coast.

[QUOTE=Sharka;2533623]This is indeed shocking and hope its not true.

I can't imagine giving out degrees to totally incompetent idiotic grads. Maybe I don't care as much if its business degree or accountants but to pass someone for Any medical degrees or structural engineer, that can potentially kill Or harm many people?[/QUOTE]Since I'm on a roll let me continue breaking the Bunky rule of posting off topics! I agree 100%, as an Asian American who can't write well enough but have a view to present. First, during my time it wasn't hard to stay in school especially if you needed to do it to stay out of the draft then it was Vietnam. I could have taken a Union job straight out of High School or learn a craft but that meant Vietnam. So I went to school work the system took whatever credits I could to qualify to stay out if it meant 6 bowling classes and required GE classes I did it one day I found myself this close to obtaining a BA, I switch to another major got myself a sheepskin roll up paper even on the honor roll my last year.

Although being Chinese American our education system is brought and paid for by the CCP, twenty years back a professor friend who I play Basketball with quit his job at a major University the reason he just couldn't play along with the Dean wishes since it was receiving huge donations from the CCP, taking meant the Dean was allowing more and more Chinese students with poor English and writing skills to enroll my professor friend felt these students were holding all the other back because he has to spend more time to keep them up to speed. Today this is going on all over the country with the money being donated I wouldn't be surprised degrees are being handled out and although I can't write for shit I think this is totally wrong especially if it is medical or if it hurts others.

As for myself, I spoke and understood as well as any American I wasn't holding anyone up in English and I wasn't training to be a doctor or engineer but I became a hell of a bowler I average 203 and had two 300 games and more 289's than I can count of two hands.

This being said years back I was at Bangkok / Pattaya hospital checking out a procedure I saw on the walls of the department profile and certification of the Doctors many printed trained in the USA For this or that procedure I picked one when I went in for the consultation as you all know I like to mess with people heads so since he was trained in the USA Their English must be pretty good? Now I speak much better than I write and like all Americans to Americans conversation we talk fast so that is exactly what I did. Now some of the classes I took at State was speed reading, reading faces, and body language the look on the Doctor face he had no idea what I just said that is when you know they weren't trained in the USA Today with the Internet with their limited English can take seminars but really trained because if they can't even understand how is it possible they could travel to the USA Or West and attend?

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows[/URL]

This is the first real indication that I've read regarding disease transmission via vaccinated people. The news is good, at least for people who got the Pfizer vaccine.

If this data stands after being peer reviewed, that would be good reason for Thailand to fully open for those who have received the Pfizer vaccine. Moderna uses the same vaccine concepts as Pfizer, so good chance that will have similar results. Hopefully all vaccines will show low transmission from asymptomatic people.

The CCSA has reportedly relaxed rules concerning sales of alcohol in Thailand. The official report comes tomorrow.

[QUOTE=Explorer8939;2533953]The CCSA has reportedly relaxed rules concerning sales of alcohol in Thailand. The official report comes tomorrow.[/QUOTE]Walked by one of the nightclubs on Soi 11 today at lunch and saw what looked like workers prepping it for re-opening.

I think the perspective here is a bit narrow. Everyone says Thailand 15 years ago was so much better. I dunno I was in Thailand a couple years ago and I remember making out with girls and even fingerblasting in the bars them for the price or a girl drink (5 usd ish?) before any talk of bar fining them. If it were really that much cheaper before, I feel like that chalks up to more of a win for Thailand and its economy than it is a loss for tourists. Granted it's not dirt cheap to bring a beautiful girl back to your hotel and fuck all night and again in the morning, but how cheap should such a great service really be? It's still usually significantly less than a half hour with an escort and a CBJ in North America who you don't even get to see before booking, you're going off some touched up photos with blurred out faces. And a lot of it has to do with the dollar value, but I guess it's all relative.

Let's not forget that the main reason that sex tourism exists is because of inequality in the world. If I have to spend a bit more because the playing field is being slightly more leveled, I'm ok with that. And don't get it twisted, I'm a looong way from being a weekend millionaire you guys are referring to. This conversation sounds to me a little bit like if Apple started complaining that Chinese iPhone factories started asking for $1.50 an hour instead of $1.00. I'm also not trying to take some moral high ground. If you pay what someone asks, you're not doing anything wrong in my book, you're supporting them, and you're not responsible for whatever global scheme botched their currency value. But anyway I see people amazed at how little some girls ask while also complaining about mechanical service as if they're completely unrelated. And then you're going to complain that some people pay more than others because you're raising the expectations for everyone. Dude, you get what you pay for. Sorry if wanting a good session is fucking with the market equilibrium or whatever.

Another big reason for sex tourism is the lower class proclivity to give birth more than the upper class, thus creating more people with fewer opportunities. Not saying that all prostitutes are desperate and have no other opportunities in life, but at the very least they need some way to pay for college as they can't rely on some trust fund. Regardless of their motives or how much they like or hate the work or if they could do something else if they wanted to bad enough, fewer opportunity = more sex workers. As far as I can tell the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the middle class get pushed down, but that hasn't changed the fact that poor people still love making babies. For every new sex tourist there's at least one more girl turning 18 who doesn't want to work minimum wage to pay for school. But with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, it makes me think that I might not always be in a position to afford this lifestyle. So I'm not too worried about those at the bottom wanting a slightly larger portion of scraps, I'm concerned with staying in a position where I can accommodate those inflating numbers. So basically you just got to stay on your grind and see life as the competition that it is.

[QUOTE=Explorer8939;2533953]The CCSA has reportedly relaxed rules concerning sales of alcohol in Thailand. The official report comes tomorrow.[/QUOTE]It looks like they just published it today and looks like the change is effective today, 22 February. (Source in Thai: [URL]http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2564/E/041/T_0071.PDF[/URL]).

I still don't understand the control zone silliness (I. E. From "Orange" to "Yellow" and having that extra one hour of being open). But ok; whatever.

So a place like Pattaya "officially" gets one more hour, and BKK gets to "officially" allow some bar-type entertainment and boozing to happen again until 11 pm; "officially".

[QUOTE=Talkyes;2533993]Granted it's not dirt cheap to bring a beautiful girl back to your hotel and fuck all night and again in the morning, but how cheap should such a great service really be? It's still usually significantly less than a half hour with an escort and a CBJ in North America who you don't even get to see before booking, you're going off some touched up photos with blurred out faces. [/QUOTE]What does what is going on in North America have to do with what is going on in Thailand? How much should such a great service really be in a country like Thailand where the minimum wage is $10/day? 1 day's wage? 2 days' wage? 1 week's wage? A BMW 3 series costs $85,000 in Thailand. In North America it costs $42,000.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2534034]A BMW 3 series costs $85,000 in Thailand. In North America it costs $42,000.[/QUOTE]Ridiculous pricing on buying cars in Thailand, not to mention a very small selection of cars to pick from. I remember when Iconsiam opened 2 years ago. I saw a Mini John Cooper Works there. I thought ok I will look at buying a small cheap car to putt around Pattaya. I almost fell to the ground when the girl told me it was over 4 million baht. That's over $130,000 US!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2534158]Ridiculous pricing on buying cars in Thailand, not to mention a very small selection of cars to pick from. I remember when Iconsiam opened 2 years ago. I saw a Mini John Cooper Works there. I thought ok I will look at buying a small cheap car to putt around Pattaya. I almost fell to the ground when the girl told me it was over 4 million baht. That's over $130,000 US![/QUOTE]That seems to be normal pricing in Asia. Try buying the same car in China or Japan and I'm sure it will be similar in price, if not more.

There are a lot of heavy duties for imported vehicles and parts in Asian countries, which help drive up the cost (not the only reason). Additionally, Mini Cooper is a BMW brand, which people here are willing to pay a premium for (status symbol).

[QUOTE=Detwing1;2534170]That seems to be normal pricing in Asia. Try buying the same car in China or Japan and I'm sure it will be similar in price, if not more.[/QUOTE]No idea for China since I never looked at importing cars from there but I know that Malaysia and Hong Kong are pretty reasonable countries to buy a used car. That's where I concentrated in my search. There was a 1 year old BMW 5 series for under 30 k USD when I was looking to import 2 years ago. Hong Kong was similar in pricing. I didn't pull the trigger since duty in to Thailand was almost the price of the car.

In Japan I would just buy domestic Japanese cars. Think I would buy a Supra there. Only saw 1 in Thailand.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2534181]No idea for China since I never looked at importing cars from there but I know that Malaysia and Hong Kong are pretty reasonable countries to buy a used car. That's where I concentrated in my search. There was a 1 year old BMW 5 series for under 30 k USD when I was looking to import 2 years ago. Hong Kong was similar in pricing. I didn't pull the trigger since duty in to Thailand was almost the price of the car.

In Japan I would just buy domestic Japanese cars. Think I would buy a Supra there. Only saw 1 in Thailand.[/QUOTE]The only value for consumer autos in Thailand are pickup trucks. They are not subjected to the heavy import duties and taxes. You can buy a pickup for the same price as the US and some non-American brands even cheaper. I've never owned a pickup but if I was going to purchase an automobile in Thailand it would be one of the 4 or 5 passenger pickups.

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2534002]It looks like they just published it today and looks like the change is effective today, 22 February. (Source in Thai: [URL]http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2564/E/041/T_0071.PDF[/URL]).

I still don't understand the control zone silliness (I. E. From "Orange" to "Yellow" and having that extra one hour of being open). But ok; whatever.

So a place like Pattaya "officially" gets one more hour, and BKK gets to "officially" allow some bar-type entertainment and boozing to happen again until 11 pm; "officially.[/QUOTE]If you're expecting things to make sense, you're in the wrong country LOL.

I'm just happy bars can open again.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2534181]No idea for China since I never looked at importing cars from there but I know that Malaysia and Hong Kong are pretty reasonable countries to buy a used car. That's where I concentrated in my search. There was a 1 year old BMW 5 series for under 30 k USD when I was looking to import 2 years ago. Hong Kong was similar in pricing. I didn't pull the trigger since duty in to Thailand was almost the price of the car.

In Japan I would just buy domestic Japanese cars. Think I would buy a Supra there. Only saw 1 in Thailand.[/QUOTE]Yeah I'm not sure what used car pricing goes for.

However, brand new foreign brand cars are expensive in mainland China. I've priced out a few different brand of SUV's both in mainland China, and Japan. Was much higher than in the states.

Although as another poster noted, pickup trucks in Thailand could be different. You see a lot them here, but I haven't priced any out.

Ford assembles the Ranger over in it's Rayong plant though.

It all comes down to if there isn't a factory in Thailand there is going to be an import duty on it. When it comes BMW depending on the model and series if it has a factory in Thailand making a specific model then it will avoid the duty which can range 30-40% more. When it comes to the Mini Cooper there isn't the same with Volkswagon you want a Beetle it is going to cost you even in the gray market.

As for Toyota same if it isn't made here like the Supra it is considered an Import same with the Lexus. If you are looking for a small vehicle to run around in Pattaya travel as far as Bangkok, I suggest one like the Suzuki (the one that looks like a Mini Cooper) a Toyota Yaris, even the MG, the motors are like 1. 2 CC these little cars run for like 560,000 and have lots of go and loaded with all the bells and whistles.

My first vehicle here because of my wife Yaris 2006,1. 5 runs and runs still like new with 115,000 never broken down or need emergency service.

As for a Truck got a new one in late 2018, of course, Toyota although I went to the car show and saw all the models I was tempted with the Ford anything vehicle American I will never take a chance again. I checked into shipping my Jeep (Hemi) over but after long research not ever heard anyone with a success story decided against it. I got a pretty good truck Hilux E plus with 2. 4 l, 4 door Auto 7 Speed, list at 899,000 all the extra added after several dealerships finally got one down to 859,000 out the door. Great truck.

As for used, you got a better chance in Bangkok nearly all Pattaya dealerships don't sell used but they do in Bangkok and some provide warranties with them. As for prices, it seems in Pattaya there are a number of lots I venture to look at regularly out of interest they basically work for the banks and repo cars due to nonpayment, they run through the vehicles shine them up, etc provide a 30-day warranty even finance but the prices seem to be based on how much is left payment prior to repo? Many times I've seen two same models vehicle one had more miles and went for more this is the same with used motorbikes.

[QUOTE=Talkyes;2533993]...but that hasn't changed the fact that poor people still love making babies....[/QUOTE]Rich people have many avenues for pleasure. The only pleasure for poor people is sex. Besides poor people have less knowledge of and access to birth control. Furthermore, a baby means an additional farm hand in 10 years.

Trying to do 90 day online. Getting this.

"Failure of Web Server bridge:

No backend server available for connection: timed out after 10 seconds or idempotent set to OFF or method not idempotent."

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2534877]Trying to do 90 day online. Getting this.

"Failure of Web Server bridge:

No backend server available for connection: timed out after 10 seconds or idempotent set to OFF or method not idempotent."[/QUOTE]From reading another website today the online system is down, it was reported also particularly at the Jomtien office 90 day reporting was a mess due to some computer breakdown?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2534034]What does what is going on in North America have to do with what is going on in Thailand? How much should such a great service really be in a country like Thailand where the minimum wage is $10/day? 1 day's wage? 2 days' wage? 1 week's wage? A BMW 3 series costs $85,000 in Thailand. In North America it costs $42,000.[/QUOTE]Well, to start, I would point out that "what is going on" as you put it, is more important than where it's going on. In a perfect world a person could move freely from country to country offering the same service without worrying about their income changing drastically. Which is why the point I was making was that sex tourism is directly related us not living in a perfect world, or as some would call it, income inequality. Your car argument is not really a great comparison to sex work because these car manufacturers clearly have a formula for how to optimize their sales globally. If they charged the same in Thailand that they charge in America for their cars, they wouldn't make as much money because fewer people would buy them. Women who are selling themselves typically don't have the option to relocate to whatever country they can get the best deal, or the ones that do have no interest in relocating because they're already in a good spot. Another reason why it's not a good comparison, or at least it doesn't bring clarity to the discussion, is because it only costs twice as much in America, and according to your numbers, minimum wage is less that 10% of what it is in America.

Anyway I meant to post this in the a different forum because that's where the conversation was happening but I won't name it because people in that forum already seem disgruntled about the growing popularity of it, but that's the page I've been checking. I assumed the mods deleted it until I realized it was posted here. I don't want to pretent like I'm an economist and I can explain exactly why the prices are what they are, but I just wanted to try and move the conversation past the idea that people who are willing to pay a bit more so that the service provider will be happy and thus try to make them happy too, are somehow ruining it for everyone.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2534297]Rich people have many avenues for pleasure. The only pleasure for poor people is sex. Besides poor people have less knowledge of and access to birth control. Furthermore, a baby means an additional farm hand in 10 years.[/QUOTE]I agree with most of what you said and I don't think it contradicts what I was saying. I wasn't trying to disparage poor people for making babies, just trying to tie it into the bigger picture of why sex work is cheaper in poorer countries. The one thing I would disagree with, or at least challenge, is the notion that birth control is for the rich. Condoms are cheap, and given out for free in many countries. And despite what we all learned in sex-ed, the pull-out method works pretty well. I'm just saying it's a more complicated problem than birth control costing money.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2534920]From reading another website today the online system is down, it was reported also particularly at the Jomtien office 90 day reporting was a mess due to some computer breakdown?[/QUOTE]Thanks for that. Checking further it seems they didn't renew their security certificate which expired on 21st. Got to love how it works here or doesn't. Day to day admin of immigration policy really needs be given to a private outfit. Thailand 4.0. Will be interesting. Just need to remember to top up those expired certs.

A new report in Bangkok Post suggests the quarantine may be waived for vaccinated travelers. [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2073187/thailand-mulls-waiving-quarantine-for-vaccinated-tourists[/URL].

Of course this is pure newspaper speculation and I would be as surprised as anyone if it actually happens before a significant proportion of the Thai population is inoculated, but at least the Govt is thinking about it so maybe something will happen as the rate of new Corona infection slows down in the vaccinated countries.

[QUOTE=Talkyes;2534969]Your car argument is not really a great comparison to sex work because these car manufacturers clearly have a formula for how to optimize their sales globally.[/QUOTE]There is no formula from the car maker. There is a price difference due to taxes. Are you going to the USA and offer just below the price that the car will cost you in Thailand? Afterall, you will be saving money because in Thailand it is way more expensive.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2535306]There is no formula from the car maker. There is a price difference due to taxes. Are you going to the USA and offer just below the price that the car will cost you in Thailand? After you will be saving money because in Thailand it is way more expensive.[/QUOTE]This is a good point that I've also noticed with these Freddie's. Do they pay the tailors in Thailand more money because it's costs more to get tailor made suits in their countries? Do they pay cab drivers more money for trips because it costs more in the US. Do they pay the street vendors more money because food costs more in the UK? Do they pay the cleaner or the laundry person more money because it costs more money in France? No, but they are hell bent on paying sex workers more money because it costs more in AUS.

Their whole argument is so contradictory. First they travel half way across the world for sex because it's cheaper. Then when they get there they say hey it's more expensive where I just came from so let me pay more. Why don't you just stay where you are and save yourself the expense and hassle of travelling?

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2535202]A new report in Bangkok Post suggests the quarantine may be waived for vaccinated travelers. [URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/2073187/thailand-mulls-waiving-quarantine-for-vaccinated-tourists[/URL].

Of course this is pure newspaper speculation and I would be as surprised as anyone if it actually happens before a significant proportion of the Thai population is inoculated, but at least the Govt is thinking about it so maybe something will happen as the rate of new Corona infection slows down in the vaccinated countries.[/QUOTE]This would not surprise me. Despite recent chit chat in these forums that the vaccine will not stop spread of COVID 19, there is non-peer reviewed data to the contrary. That data is based on the Pfizer vaccine and positive experience in Israel. Several days ago I posted a link in this forum.

If that data becomes sufficiently peer reviewed, I would see no reason that Thailand would continue the quarantine requirements for appropriately vaccinated tourists. My guess is such data would need to be reviewed for each of the vaccines as not all use the same technology as the Pfizer.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2535331]This would not surprise me. Despite recent chit chat in these forums that the vaccine will not stop spread of COVID 19, there is non-peer reviewed data to the contrary. That data is based on the Pfizer vaccine and positive experience in Israel. Several days ago I posted a link in this forum.

If that data becomes sufficiently peer reviewed, I would see no reason that Thailand would continue the quarantine requirements for appropriately vaccinated tourists. My guess is such data would need to be reviewed for each of the vaccines as not all use the same technology as the Pfizer.[/QUOTE]And we'd need herd immunity or approaching it before these clowns would get this implemented.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2535314]This is a good point that I've also noticed with these Freddie's. Do they pay the tailors in Thailand more money because it's costs more to get tailor made suits in their countries? Do they pay cab drivers more money for trips because it costs more in the US. Do they pay the street vendors more money because food costs more in the UK? Do they pay the cleaner or the laundry person more money because it costs more money in France? No, but they are hell bent on paying sex workers more money because it costs more in AUS.

Their whole argument is so contradictory. First they travel half way across the world for sex because it's cheaper. Then when they get there they say hey it's more expensive where I just came from so let me pay more. Why don't you just stay where you are and save yourself the expense and hassle of travelling?[/QUOTE]If you look at costs of living comparisons from one country to another, there is pretty wide variance from one thing to another. It's never going to be a perfect science.

But even if you're not saving money proportionate to what you would be with the rest of cost of living expenses, you're still saving money, especially if you make your stay long enough. It more than pays for the flight, not to mention the money you save on the rest of the cost of living expenses like food. And you're also getting a vacation out of it, even if you're just there for the sex, you're getting more than that.

But even all those things aside, take money out of the equation, and you're still comparing apples to oranges when you compare sex work in your home country, moudly apples to Valencia oranges for most of us at that. I live in Canada where options are significantly better than most parts of the states and it still doesn't hold a candle to places like Thailand or Brazil or a dozen other countries I could name. The novelty of just having more options and experiencing the liberated ways they're presented is night and day compared to how it's done here. So yeah saving money is nice but it's far from the only thing.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2535331]This would not surprise me. Despite recent chit chat in these forums that the vaccine will not stop spread of COVID 19, there is non-peer reviewed data to the contrary. That data is based on the Pfizer vaccine and positive experience in Israel. Several days ago I posted a link in this forum.

If that data becomes sufficiently peer reviewed, I would see no reason that Thailand would continue the quarantine requirements for appropriately vaccinated tourists. My guess is such data would need to be reviewed for each of the vaccines as not all use the same technology as the Pfizer.[/QUOTE]There is a study in Israel and two more from the UK that are currently undergoing peer review and all show that the vaccines do reduce transmission.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2535492]There is a study in Israel and two more from the UK that are currently undergoing peer review and all show that the vaccines do reduce transmission.[/QUOTE]The French and Germans are not happy with the oxford jab so are not using them up and lie unused.

They're not 100% reliable, and guys who have had jabs of Pfizer have died. And not enough is known about mutations on jabs, no doubt LOS will become a hub of mutations eventually due to all the inbound tourists from everywhere.

Maybe the immunity hasn't built up over many months.

Shifting millions of tourists maybe hard with large numbers of long haul out of service and ready to be scrapped in the breakers yards in Arizona. Airlines would need some full planes especially with 1st class and business class for big profits as low class shows little to no profits to hire more staff again.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2535492]There is a study in Israel and two more from the UK that are currently undergoing peer review and all show that the vaccines do reduce transmission.[/QUOTE]Elderly people should not kiss their grandchildren even if they have received a second dose of a coronavirus vaccine, an expert claimed today.

Professor Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the Joint Committee of Vaccines and Immunisation (JCVI), said it may not be safe to break social-distancing rules even after having two doses.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Professor Harnden was asked by a listener whether he was allowed to kiss his school-age grandchildren, with the JCVI deputy chair replying: "no".

"You need to be really careful and remember that even after the second dose of vaccine it's not necessarily 100 per cent effective," he said.

"At the moment, we still need to be cautious and obey the rules and I don't think kissing grandchildren is allowed".

Professor Harnden added that while the vaccine offers protection against severe disease, how much protection it offers overall still remains unknown.

"Well it'll offer you very good protection against severe disease and hospitalization but we don't know yet how much protection it'll offer against asymptomatic infections," he said.

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/vaccine-expert-don-t-kiss-110237435.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Downandup;2535492]There is a study in Israel and two more from the UK that are currently undergoing peer review and all show that the vaccines do reduce transmission.[/QUOTE]That's the best news possible!

Even if Thailand immediately allowed vaccinated tourists to return without restrictions, it will take time before the network of hotels, restaurants, tours, transportation and other tourism support can be revived. Then there is time required for the tourists to get vaccinated. Not to mention that most of us won't want to return until many of our favorite venues are full of girls and lively.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2535537]The French and Germans are not happy with the oxford jab so are not using them up and lie unused.

They're not 100% reliable, and guys who have had jabs of Pfizer have died. And not enough is known about mutations on jabs, no doubt LOS will become a hub of mutations eventually due to all the inbound tourists from everywhere.

Maybe the immunity hasn't built up over many months.[/QUOTE]France, Italy and Germany decided that despite being approved in Europe that there was insufficient data for the vaccines effectiveness for the over 65's, well that's changed with studies coming out from Scotland showing that the AZ vaccine had reduced hospitalisations by 94% in general and 81% for the 80+. So now they have to backtrack and that's going to take time and this has damaged confidence in the vaccination program. Survey's from 6 months ago showed that the french were reluctant to be vaccinated no matter how effective they were proved to be.

Mutations have to be monitored to see what effect they have, some will weaken the virus and others strenghen it, it's been found time and again that some mutations will stop a virus from causing illness and many have faded away due to mutations. A small number (out of 6,000) recent covid19 mutations are worrisome as they are more infectious spread faster but cause the same level of illness not make it worse. Oxford and others have stated that they can modifiy their vaccine to counteract this and are currently lab testing this.

No vaccine is ever 100% effective, most are approved if found to have an effectiveness greater than 50% and you can see the reports that these are a lot better. There is a very clear indication here that these vaccines almost eliminate deaths in a large population, reduce the severity of illness and reduce the transmission.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2535543]Elderly people should not kiss their grandchildren even if they have received a second dose of a coronavirus vaccine, an expert claimed today.

Professor Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the Joint Committee of Vaccines and Immunisation (JCVI), said it may not be safe to break social-distancing rules even after having two doses.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Professor Harnden was asked by a listener whether he was allowed to kiss his school-age grandchildren, with the JCVI deputy chair replying: "no".

"You need to be really careful and remember that even after the second dose of vaccine it's not necessarily 100 per cent effective," he said.

"At the moment, we still need to be cautious and obey the rules and I don't think kissing grandchildren is allowed".

Professor Harnden added that while the vaccine offers protection against severe disease, how much protection it offers overall still remains unknown.

"Well it'll offer you very good protection against severe disease and hospitalization but we don't know yet how much protection it'll offer against asymptomatic infections," he said.

[URL]https://uk.news.yahoo.com/vaccine-expert-don-t-kiss-110237435.html[/URL][/QUOTE]One got to wonder what these so called vaccines are effective for except probably for changing our DNA.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2535837]No vaccine is ever 100% effective, most are approved if found to have an effectiveness greater than 50% and you can see the reports that these are a lot better. There is a very clear indication here that these vaccines almost eliminate deaths in a large population, reduce the severity of illness and reduce the transmission.[/QUOTE]Yeah, guys, people are going nuts complaining about effectiveness.

Early vaccines are often 50% efficacy and the belief was that if we got our first covid vaccines at that rate it would be awesome and sufficient to get everything back to normal and stop the spread. 70% was a big goal but they didn't think they'd get there for a bit. Then the first two vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer) were an incredibly bonkers 95% and no deaths. Like, that's wild. Blew every expectation out of the water. The J&J which was just approved in the US is at least 70%, no deaths and no hospitalizations, and the Astrazenca one is around there too but seems it may need further evaluation. Even the Russian made one is thought to be close to 70% or so (although it looks like this one needs a lot more research and they have supply issues).

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2535923]Yeah, guys, people are going nuts complaining about effectiveness.[/QUOTE]The chunky 45 year old freelancer with shitty attitude can get your rocks off, but not too many punters want her when there is a 25 year old hottie with great attitude just a few feet away. The 65% vaccine can help you and our society if everybody gets it, but not too many people want it when a 95% vaccine is available.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2535910]One got to wonder what these so called vaccines are effective for except probably for changing our DNA.[/QUOTE]Your DNA has already been changed. Eating GMO foods changes your DNA. Most Americans eat GMO foods on a regular basis. Many in Latin America and the Far East too.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2535537]The French and Germans are not happy with the oxford jab so are not using them up and lie unused.

They're not 100% reliable, and guys who have had jabs of Pfizer have died. And not enough is known about mutations on jabs, no doubt LOS will become a hub of mutations eventually due to all the inbound tourists from everywhere.

Maybe the immunity hasn't built up over many months.[/QUOTE]34% of Germans say they do not want to be vaccinated.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2535837]France, Italy and Germany decided that despite being approved in Europe that there was insufficient data for the vaccines effectiveness for the over 65's, well that's changed with studies coming out from Scotland showing that the AZ vaccine had reduced hospitalisations by 94% in general and 81% for the 80+. So now they have to backtrack and that's going to take time and this has damaged confidence in the vaccination program. Survey's from 6 months ago showed that the french were reluctant to be vaccinated no matter how effective they were proved to be.

Mutations have to be monitored to see what effect they have, some will weaken the virus and others strenghen it, it's been found time and again that some mutations will stop a virus from causing illness and many have faded away due to mutations. A small number (out of 6,000) recent covid19 mutations are worrisome as they are more infectious spread faster but cause the same level of illness not make it worse. Oxford and others have stated that they can modifiy their vaccine to counteract this and are currently lab testing this.[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing.

There has been some very positive news coming out recently re vaccinations. In my area health experts have expressed optimism for a return to normal there by this summer:

"By the time we get to the summer, we're going to be in a different place. In the coming months, we're going to be able to do all those things that we have been missing for the last year," Henry said Tuesday."

[URL]https://globalnews.ca/news/7668751/coronavirus-british-columbia-vaccine-rollout-phase-2/[/URL]

"BC accelerates timeline for first vaccine doses.

All eligible adults should get 1st dose by end July; over-80's, Indigenous people over 65 can book this month.

Also on Monday, the province announced it is extending the time between first and second doses of COVID-19 vaccine to four months. The change, as well as Health Canada's approval of a third vaccine, means every eligible person in BC will receive the first dose of their vaccine by mid- to late July.

Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry said data from the BC Centre for Disease Control and countries around the world such as the United Kingdom and New Zealand shows "miraculous" protection of at least 90 per cent from the first dose of a Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

She said the National Advisory Committee on Immunization is expected to issue a statement to align with BC's decision, which frees up 70,000 doses for younger age groups.

"This is amazing news," said Henry. "These vaccines work, they give a very high level of protection and that protection lasts for many months."

"This gives us a very real and important benefit to everybody here in BC," Henry added. "That means we can move everybody up the list and more people will be protected sooner."

The newly authorized AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine will also accelerate BC's overall vaccine timeline, possibly bumping front-line workers up the queue. The province expects to receive its first shipment likely 60,000 doses on the week of March 9.

[URL]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-immunization-plan-covid-1.5931543[/URL]

Hopefully Thailand will be making things much easier for tourists to visit the Land Of Smiles before the end of 2021.

In the Bangkok Post today, it was reported today that a consortium of Thai tourism industry organizations recommended that Thailand open to tourists beginning July 1st as long as the tourists have proof of vaccination cards, a Covid test within 72 hours of departure, and international health insurance.

For what it's worth, these international insurance premiums can be pretty high, albeit you only need it for the length of your stay. However, many of us travel to international destinations without any health insurance as our domestic policies generally do not cover international hospital visits, drugs, etc. If an unfortunate health event occurs, it can have devastating financial consequences so perhaps making sure you have adequate coverage is a good idea for all circumstances, not only Covid. The biggest cost can be a situation requiring that you return to your home country for treatment. These medivac transfer costs are enormous.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2536605]In the Bangkok Post today, it was reported today that a consortium of Thai tourism industry organizations recommended that Thailand open to tourists beginning July 1st as long as the tourists have proof of vaccination cards, a Covid test within 72 hours of departure, and international health insurance.

For what it's worth, these international insurance premiums can be pretty high, albeit you only need it for the length of your stay. However, many of us travel to international destinations without any health insurance as our domestic policies generally do not cover international hospital visits, drugs, etc. If an unfortunate health event occurs, it can have devastating financial consequences so perhaps making sure you have adequate coverage is a good idea for all circumstances, not only Covid. The biggest cost can be a situation requiring that you return to your home country for treatment. These medivac transfer costs are enormous.[/QUOTE] Great news on this! Hoping it works out!

On international health insurance-- it depends what they'll accept for that in this case, there are a lot of travel insurance services out there that have some pretty damn cheap rates for travel health insurance (which is sometimes part of a bigger package of insurance), its actually a good pickup for many people doing travel since the cost is often pretty low especially compared to if anything happens to you. I generally buy an inexpensive travel health insurance when I go abroad for a longer period, just not worth the hassle of not having it.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2536664]On international health insurance-- it depends what they'll accept for that in this case, there are a lot of travel insurance services out there that have some pretty damn cheap rates for travel health insurance.[/QUOTE]The insurance requirement is for $100,000 of cover specifically for Covid. For "normal" health insurance policies as ever with Thai bureaucracy interpretation and enforcement seems to vary between Embassies and Consulates but the general principle is that the policy wording must explicitly state that this cover is included (so a lack of exclusion of Covid is not sufficient). I have heard tell of some missions accepting a letter from the insurer stating the cover is included although not specifically mentioned in the policy wording, others not doing so.

One nasty little catch-22 with using blanket health insurance for the Covid cover is if someone tests positive but is asymptomatic. In Thailand if you test positive you are going to hospital even if asymptomatic. That's just the way it is. Where there is a hospital there is inevitably a hospital bill. There are reports of international insurers refusing claims with the thought process of "If you didn't have symptoms then you didn't need hospitalization" leaving the unfortunate policy holder out of pocket.

With regard to the Covid specific insurance the Thai General Insurance Association (TGIA) has a web-portal where you can obtain a quote for it. Premiums for 90 days cover currently vary from THB 3,840 for "low risk" (my term) countries such as Australia to THB 12,160 for "high risk" countries (USA, UK, France etc.). For other countries you can look it up for yourselves. Hopefully as infection rates come under control in the outside world then countries will be reclassified into the lower premium levels. No, I am not on commission from them.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2536815]With regard to the Covid specific insurance the Thai General Insurance Association (TGIA) has a web-portal where you can obtain a quote for it. Premiums for 90 days cover currently vary from THB 3,840 for "low risk" (my term) countries such as Australia to THB 12,160 for "high risk" countries (USA, UK, France etc.).[/QUOTE]This does not seem too expensive. For travelers from high risk countries that's only 135 baht per day. Even if you buy a 90-day policy but only stay 30 days, its just 405 baht per day. If that covers my hospital bill for a false positive COVID test, I'm happy to have paid the money.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2536605]In the Bangkok Post today, it was reported today that a consortium of Thai tourism industry organizations recommended that Thailand open to tourists beginning July 1st as long as the tourists have proof of vaccination cards, a Covid test within 72 hours of departure, and international health insurance.[/QUOTE]Thomasb,

This is another in a long line of proposals or recommendations from the tourism industry. They come up with a new one or rehashed previous one every month or so (remember the "Island Isolation" of Phuket, "Covid Corridors", bubbles and cuts in quarantine time.). So far the only ones that have gone through are Golf Quarantine which after months of debate has clocked up it's first visitors (about 30 of them) and a charter flight of assorted very wealthy people who rented an entire hotel at Cape Panwa, Phuket to serve their quarantine there rather than at an ASQ hotel.

Come 1st July less than half of the population will have had access to the vaccine even if the current timetable can be met. My view is the Government will continue with its hawkish view that the risk is not worth the rewards (and they and their cronies aren't big in tourism. They make their ill-gotten gains from other sectors such as infrastructure projects).

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2536819]This does not seem too expensive. For travelers from high risk countries that's only 135 baht per day. Even if you buy a 90-day policy but only stay 30 days, its just 405 baht per day. If that covers my hospital bill for a false positive COVID test, I'm happy to have paid the money.[/QUOTE]Other durations are available and from a quick glance the premiums seem roughly pro rata to duration so a 30 day policy from high risk countries is just under THB 5,000 and 60 days THB 8,600.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2536834]Other durations are available and from a quick glance the premiums seem roughly pro rata to duration so a 30 day policy from high risk countries is just under THB 5,000 and 60 days THB 8,600.[/QUOTE]Premiums vary hugely based on age and length of stay and can be prohibitively expensive for those 70 plus. Assuming some form of rational thinking in immigration policy one would imagine that certified vaccinated visitors with consequent little or no risk of being hospitalized should not need specific Covid 19 coverage.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2536605]In the Bangkok Post today, it was reported today that a consortium of Thai tourism industry organizations recommended that Thailand open to tourists beginning July 1st as long as the tourists have proof of vaccination cards, a Covid test within 72 hours of departure, and international health insurance.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately that is not saying anything. You could have written them 6 months ago and made the same recommendation and it would have carried the same weight. When you see it in the Royal Gazette, that is when you make your bet.

Yea, I agree that the tourism authority continues to come up with schemes to speed things along, yet nothing seems to happen. What caught my eye on this proposal was the PM said the Thai government would take a look at relaxing the Covid standards due to the extreme hit on the the overall economy. Of course, he could just be posturing and has no intention on relaxing policy in this regard. Sometimes, I think the government would prefer not to allow farangs in the country to the degree of the past decades or so in order to rid themselves of our 'corrupt' influences.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2536820]Thomasb,

This is another in a long line of proposals or recommendations from the tourism industry. They come up with a new one or rehashed previous one every month or so (remember the "Island Isolation" of Phuket, "Covid Corridors", bubbles and cuts in quarantine time.). So far the only ones that have gone through are Golf Quarantine which after months of debate has clocked up it's first visitors (about 30 of them) and a charter flight of assorted very wealthy people who rented an entire hotel at Cape Panwa, Phuket to serve their quarantine there rather than at an ASQ hotel.

Come 1st July less than half of the population will have had access to the vaccine even if the current timetable can be met. My view is the Government will continue with its hawkish view that the risk is not worth the rewards (and they and their cronies aren't big in tourism. They make their ill-gotten gains from other sectors such as infrastructure projects).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2536964]Yea, I agree that the tourism authority continues to come up with schemes to speed things along, yet nothing seems to happen. What caught my eye on this proposal was the PM said the Thai government would take a look at relaxing the Covid standards due to the extreme hit on the the overall economy. Of course, he could just be posturing and has no intention on relaxing policy in this regard. Sometimes, I think the government would prefer not to allow farangs in the country to the degree of the past decades or so in order to rid themselves of our 'corrupt' influences.[/QUOTE]Although I live here I'm not a big fan of this guy or to be in general any of their leaders. My favorite name for him is " puppet man " that is exactly what he is! There are a number of political reasons why he was hand-picked leading and coming up with his own idea's I don't think is one of them.

As noted there is a lot of conversation going on about the fact that it is being brought up bright spot, in my opinion, hopefully, sooner than later he hears it enough will allow it to happen. When the time comes another major huddle aside from the 14-day quarantine is the insurance which has rarely been mentioned in the conversation maybe I miss something? Although I haven't checked in a while when I did look it wasn't as cheap as others have noted may be due to my age and my length of stay a 100,000 USD coverage for Covid, runs 140,000 baht at 30-1 ratio that equals $4600.00 for a one-year policy.

Yet for locals and even ex-pats they were selling policy within for 800-1500 baht coverage in general 100,000 baht if you go into a coma coverage 1-2 million baht includes death benefits. Then you got a recently passed to charge all passengers coming into the country another 300-600 baht buried in their ticket price to be used to promote tourism and cover tourist medical expenses if they have an accident and don't carry insurance. When it comes to insurance here they got the leaders deep in their pockets?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2536841]Premiums vary hugely based on age and length of stay and can be prohibitively expensive for those 70 plus. Assuming some form of rational thinking in immigration policy one would imagine that certified vaccinated visitors with consequent little or no risk of being hospitalized should not need specific Covid 19 coverage.[/QUOTE]Franciscass,

Your observation is accurate for general health insurance but for the stand alone Covid cover I was talking about the premiums are not age age specific. Age 1 to 99 it's the same price. The only variables which affect the price seem to be country of origin and duration (I admit I haven't checked whether the "reason for visit" affects the premiums).

". rational thinking in immigration policy. " - hmmmm, may I remind you that This is Thailand?

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2537105]Franciscass,

Your observation is accurate for general health insurance but for the stand alone Covid cover I was talking about the premiums are not age age specific. Age 1 to 99 it's the same price. The only variables which affect the price seem to be country of origin and duration (I admit I haven't checked whether the "reason for visit" affects the premiums).

". rational thinking in immigration policy. " - hmmmm, may I remind you that This is Thailand?[/QUOTE]Thanks for update. A retiree friend 76 years in UK waiting on his second jab is finding it particularly difficult getting affordable $100.000 Covid cover. 74 seems to be the standard cut off age for most providers. Your post suggests there are policies that solely cover covid and are priced the same irrespective of age. Not disagreeing with you if such is the case but it seems a little odd to me that as the risk of hospitalization is significantly higher as you up the age scale that premiums would not reflect this. No matter but if possible do you have a link where my friend might find such cover. It would be very much appreciated. Many thanks, Incidentally totally in sync with you on the intrinsic phobia towards outsiders.