Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2811619]You're substituting a more abstract and generalized view in lieu of the very specific question presented to you.[/QUOTE]Nice seeing you put Wyatt on the spot for the third time, but this "abstract" "generalized" "realpolitik" softcore isolationism occasionally seasoned with sympathy for Russian propaganda is all we've gotten from Wyatt for the last 14 months, and with little consideration to the unfolding narrative. If you've read one of his posts you've read them all, thus for the most part I've stopped reading them.

I'll add that with someone like Elvis it's direct. You know exactly what you are getting and where's he coming from. Wyatt's ad nauseam and disingenuous pseudo-intellectualism though is especially nauseating.

And yes, the Russians are war criminals. Their actions should invoke an emotional reaction from anyone with a moral conscience. Fact is though that many on the planet do not have one. Life is only viewed and lived with the aim of what pleasures they can personally get out of it. It's thus very easy and perfectly natural for them to operate in the abstract when it comes to the tribulations of other people.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2811699]You do not know if Hersh has one or many sources. You just think your Democratic douche fact check is a source.

End of link. [b]There are a lot of facts there, and not one was disputed.[/b]

And for someone who claims to be making statements based on facts, you are just a Democratic douche type who swears anything on CNN and MSNBC is fact and anything on Fox is not.[/QUOTE]Here you go. The recap of a BS "article" and two Elvis' signature "douches" in one post. Good job!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2811699]You do not know if Hersh has one or many sources. You just think your Democratic douche fact check is a source.

Of course, you have not read the article. No shock there. You did not even try to find it. Here it is: [URL]https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream[/URL].

And here is a quotation of the story:

The Norwegian navy was quick to find the right spot, in the shallow waters of the Baltic sea a few miles off Denmark's Bornholm Island. The pipelines ran more than a mile apart along a seafloor that was only 260 feet deep. That would be well within the range of the divers, who, operating from a Norwegian Alta class mine hunter, would dive with a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and helium streaming from their tanks, and plant shaped C4 charges on the four pipelines with concrete protective covers. It would be tedious, time consuming and dangerous work, but the waters off Bornholm had another advantage: there were no major tidal currents, which would have made the task of diving much more difficult.

After a bit of research, the Americans were all in.

At this point, the Navy's obscure deep-diving group in Panama City once again came into play. The deep-sea schools at Panama City, whose trainees participated in Ivy Bells, are seen as an unwanted backwater by the elite graduates of the Naval Academy in Annapolis, who typically seek the glory of being assigned as a Seal, fighter pilot, or submariner. If one must become a "Black Shoe"that is, a member of the less desirable surface ship commandthere is always at least duty on a destroyer, cruiser or amphibious ship. The least glamorous of all is mine warfare. Its divers never appear in Hollywood movies, or on the cover of popular magazines.

End of link. There are a lot of facts there, and not one was disputed.

And for someone who claims to be making statements based on facts, you are just a Democratic douche type who swears anything on CNN and MSNBC is fact and anything on Fox is not.

If you weren't such a loser, you would have taken on Hirsch's article versus insulting me.[/QUOTE]Anyone can claim whatever they want. Without verification those claims will never qualify as facts.

Therefore, my claim that you're the source of the highly questionable (same exact phrase, 20 years apart from different people, really?) "goat fuck" quotes is every bit as valid as any of Hersh's claims. No independent verification? No problem! Are his "sources" confidential? Well, so are mine. Lots of juicy detail? Hey, just stay tuned for the bombshell details that will be disclosed at [URL]www.elvisthegoatfucker.com[/URL] (it'll be a doozy)!

P.S. Most of the links I've posted have been those that set forth verifiable facts, such as reports of Russian ships being photographed in the area of the explosion. I don't believe I've posted ANYTHING (Dem douche or otherwise) that seeks to directly fact check Hersh's NordStream story. I did post a link to a critic who pointed out problems with PREVIOUS stories, and discussed how those past issues give rise to credibility questions. Your bogus assertion is therefore a pathetic straw-man argument. Nice try!

But I'm glad you brought it up, because here's a new story describing one of the photographed Russian ships as having mini-submarine capabilities.

[URL]https://twitter.com/ASLuhn/status/1651699036607447046[/URL]

[URL]https://www.information.dk/indland/2023/04/forsvaret-bekraefter-rusland-specialfartoej-naer-nord-streams-spraengningspunkt[/URL]

I'm not pushing any particular narrative because, as I've stated repeatedly, I choose to reserve judgment until more verified facts (not mere claims) come to light. Of the various alternative possibilities, things aren't trending particularly well for your preferred narrative.

P. P.S. Facts are neither Democrat or Republican. They rest securely on the foundation of verified evidence.

[URL]https://dnyuz.com/2023/04/27/russian-army-commander-arrested-for-selling-tank-engines/[/URL]

"The Kommersant newspaper reported that Colonel Alexander Denisov is accused of stealing seven V-92 S2 engines worth 20.5 million roubles (around 200,000) between November 2021 and April 2022".

"In 2019, two other Russian army officers were convicted of a similar theft".

Ah, Russian institutionalized corruption, the gift that keeps on giving!

[QUOTE=Questner;2811624]Orc grunting noises[/QUOTE]These last few days watching the RuZZians running away and leaving equipment behind have been an absolute joy.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2812057]These last few days watching the RuZZians running away and leaving equipment behind have been an absolute joy.[/QUOTE]Not to mention how they leave their dead behind to fertilize the Ukrainian Earth!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2811930]Anyone can claim whatever they want. Without verification those claims will never qualify as facts.

Therefore, my claim that you're the source of the highly questionable (same exact phrase, 20 years apart from different people, really?) "goat fuck" quotes is every bit as valid as any of Hersh's claims. No independent verification? No problem! Are his "sources" confidential? Well, so are mine. Lots of juicy detail? Hey, just stay tuned for the bombshell details that will be disclosed at [URL]www.elvisthegoatfucker.com[/URL] (it'll be a doozy)!


I'm not pushing any particular narrative because, as I've stated repeatedly, I choose to reserve judgment until more verified facts (not mere claims) come to light. Of the various alternative possibilities, things aren't trending particularly well for your preferred narrative.

P. P.S. Facts are neither Democrat or Republican. They rest securely on the foundation of verified evidence.[/QUOTE]You are boring me and everyone else. This is the Democratic douche defense. I gave you the link to Hersh's article and asked you to point out one thing he got wrong. You rambled on about some bullshit with regards to what constitutes a fact and what does not and then you personally attacked me.

Then you double down on the same Russian ships near the pipeline bullshit.

The fact is that the Nordstream pipeline was blown up. Hersh wrote a great article about the USA doing it. And I pointed out how it benefitted the USA to the tune of billions and even trillions of dollars. The evidence looks very strong the USA with the help of European nations blew up the pipeline.

You disregard all of that and say there were Russians ships in the area which is so meaningless that it actually adds to the likelihood the USA did it as it is the weakest alterative to the USA doing the deed.

So let's make it personal with you. If it makes Russia look badly, JM, that is a fact for you, and anything that makes Ukraine and its allies look badly is not a fact and should be disputed. So you can stop with the lectures. We all know how you are now.

You are like Eihtooms, AKA Bagdad Bob, of the politics forum. Every post he makes is some version of Dems good, Republicans bad.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2811778]I'll add that with someone like Elvis it's direct. You know exactly what you are getting and where's he coming from. Wyatt's ad nauseam and disingenuous pseudo-intellectualism though is especially nauseating.

And yes, the Russians are war criminals. Their actions should invoke an emotional reaction from anyone with a moral conscience. Fact is though that many on the planet do not have one. Life is only viewed and lived with the aim of what pleasures they can personally get out of it. It's thus very easy and perfectly natural for them to operate in the abstract when it comes to the tribulations of other people.[/QUOTE]Thanks Paulie, with the pipeline issue for instance, I am actually glad Biden went ahead with that. You could make the case that was in American's interests. I even get keeping the reasons for doing it dark just do not feed me the bullshit about facts and who did what.

Switching gears for a second, we were fed this bullshit about Covid not coming from a lab and Fauci lying about gain of function research. Andrew Huberman was on Joe Rogan's podcast and admitted he does gene manipulation in his lab and knew personally how common lab leaks were. So I get scientists and their desire to cover up the likely origins of Covid but do not feed me this bullshit that anyone saying it did not come from a lab was engaging in conspiracy theory. When that was put that out there, that practically confirmed for me Covid did come from a lab.

Sure, the Russians are war criminals but prosecuting them is the kind of thing you say at a political rally but it is hard to enact. If you say you are going to do that, then the chance of a cease fire or peace deal is markedly lowered. In fact, Russell Brand had a podcast where he quoted a paper saying I think it was the CIA was helping the Russians get out of war criminals charges because if potential charges were enacted against Russia, the same could be done for the USA.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2812136]You are boring me and everyone else. This is the Democratic douche defense. I gave you the link to Hersh's article and asked you to point out one thing he got wrong. You rambled on about some bullshit with regards to what constitutes a fact and what does not and then you personally attacked me.

Then you double down on the same Russian ships near the pipeline bullshit.

The fact is that the Nordstream pipeline was blown up. Hersh wrote a great article about the USA doing it. And I pointed out how it benefitted the USA to the tune of billions and even trillions of dollars. The evidence looks very strong the USA with the help of European nations blew up the pipeline.

You disregard all of that and say there were Russians ships in the area which is so meaningless that it actually adds to the likelihood the USA did it as it is the weakest alterative to the USA doing the deed.

So let's make it personal with you. If it makes Russia look badly, JM, that is a fact for you, and anything that makes Ukraine and its allies look badly is not a fact and should be disputed. So you can stop with the lectures. We all know how you are now.

You are like Eihtooms, AKA Bagdad Bob, of the politics forum. Every post he makes is some version of Dems good, Republicans bad.[/QUOTE]Facts aren't facts just because they fit into your preferred narrative. If Hersh can't be bothered to provide corroboration, why should anyone give him a minute's attention?

Facts = things that actually happened. Facts require verification and corroboration before they can be considered as such. For example, every story I linked to about Russian ships contained verifiable facts, namely the photos taken of those ships and the attendant dates and locations. Oh, and the latest link, the one to the mini-sub capable ship, is also factual.

Narrative = A story, which might or might not be true. What distinguishes a true narrative is the set of verified facts it contains. A narrative which lacks such facts is rightfully disregarded.

Hersh provides no corroboration, no verification, and apparently doesn't seem to think he needs any. If his uncorroborated word is good enough for you, fine. It isn't good enough for me.

Unlike you, I have not pushed any single alternative as being definitely true. Providing factually true information is not the same as pushing a specific narrative. I continue to reserve judgment until more facts come to light. I understand why that's difficult for you to grasp, since you view any questioning of your narrative as being the endorsement of another. It's not.

BTW, how can you take personal offense at the revelation that you're the source of the infamous (and suspicious) "goat fuck" quotes? After all, I've scrupulously adhered to Hershian standards of proof, right? And, considering how important Hersh's narrative is to your feelings of self-worth, I'd have thought you'd be pleased as punch at being outed as the "goat fucker".

Of course, when others consider the EXTREME improbability of two separate sources, concerning two distinct events with 20+ years between them, uttering the EXACT same phrase to Hersh, they would naturally wonder about the credibility of such an account. But not you! As a true Hersh acolyte you take every word as gospel and question nothing. Anyone with doubts, or seeking verification, is an apostate and blasphemer, right?

But hey, no worries, since you're such a fan of unverified claims, here's another fun website for you:

[URL]https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/[/URL]

They have LOTS of highly detailed "facts" on their website. Pray tell, which ones did they get wrong? No rush, we've got plenty of time.

P.S. If you find my posts boring, by all means ignore them. So, while I will continue to post relevant facts, your presence is as profoundly irrelevant as the existence of unverified narratives.

Zed looks more and more like Saddam. Destined to hang won't drown.

[QUOTE=Gopnik;2812060]Not to mention how they leave their dead behind to fertilize the Ukrainian Earth![/QUOTE]Forget the dead. They leave their wounded behind just as easily.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11687053/Putins-troops-flee-Vuhledar-battlefield-leave-wounded-vehicles-destroyed.html[/URL]

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-moscow-91c46d82268b3d5210b811ba67d66d33[/URL]

[URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/10/russias-wounded-soldiers-abandoned-fate-kherson-army-flees-ukrainian[/URL]

There are refrigerated trains with tens of thousands of their dead soldiers that the Ukrainians are willing to return. The Russians won't have it. They'd have to pay the families for their fallen, while the MIA don't count.

[URL]https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2022/07/27/no-body-means-no-money-ukrainian-official-accuses-russians-of-abandoning-dead-soldiers/[/URL]

Boy, what a country! I see why Questner couldn't be prouder.

[QUOTE=Questner;2812276]Zed looks more and more like Saddam. Destined to hang won't drown.[/QUOTE]Mussolini: Shot by partisans, hanged upside down by a mob (78 years + 1 day ago).

[URL]https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/28/did-the-brutal-death-of-mussolini-contribute-to-hitlers-suicide/[/URL]

Hitler: Suicide, reportedly motivated by what happened to Mussolini (see above). Fascinating that Little Adolf (was he as short as Putin?) received the devastating news exactly 78 years ago today!

"News of Mussolini's public, humiliating death reached Hitler by radio the following day, April 29,1945, in his Fuhrerbunker below Berlin, where he had been confined for two weeks as Soviet forces approached the German capital. "This will never happen to me," Hitler said".

Of course, if rumors about Putin's health are accurate, he might croak on his own in his PutinBunker. Or perhaps he'll be "helped along" by the hand of someone close to him?

However it happens, good riddance to a murderous, imperialist thug. He will be reviled throughout the civilized world while Zelensky will be celebrated. Putin flushed Russia's future down the toilet while Ukraine, although it won't necessarily be an easy path, is destined for a bright future as part of the EU (and likely NATO).

P.S. I doubt Putin will end like Saddam. Capture is a less likely outcome than death. If karma is a thing, his final act might be a rather messy one. One can only hope.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2812331]Forget the dead. They leave their wounded behind just as easily.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11687053/Putins-troops-flee-Vuhledar-battlefield-leave-wounded-vehicles-destroyed.html[/URL]

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-moscow-91c46d82268b3d5210b811ba67d66d33[/URL]

[URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/10/russias-wounded-soldiers-abandoned-fate-kherson-army-flees-ukrainian[/URL]

There are refrigerated trains with tens of thousands of their dead soldiers that the Ukrainians are willing to return. The Russians won't have it. They'd have to pay the families for their fallen, while the MIA don't count.

[URL]https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2022/07/27/no-body-means-no-money-ukrainian-official-accuses-russians-of-abandoning-dead-soldiers/[/URL]

Boy, what a country! I see why Questner couldn't be prouder.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-orders-21-mobile-28994545[/URL]

Ash takes up less space and, as an added bonus, burning the bodies can be done unilaterally. No need to worry about the inconvenience of Ukraine having dead Orcs on ice.

As you noted, without bodies being returned to families, no combat death payments need be made. Ashes, unlike corpses, can't be identified.

Truly the kind of "final solution," that should appeal to LilliPutin!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2812212]Facts aren't facts just because they fit into your preferred narrative. If Hersh can't be bothered to provide corroboration, why should anyone give him a minute's attention?

Facts = things that actually happened. Facts require verification and corroboration before they can be considered as such. For example, every story I linked to about Russian ships contained verifiable facts, namely the photos taken of those ships and the attendant dates and locations. Oh, and the latest link, the one to the mini-sub capable ship, is also factual.

Narrative = A story, which might or might not be true. What distinguishes a true narrative is the set of verified facts it contains. A narrative which lacks such facts is rightfully disregarded.

Hersh provides no corroboration, no verification, and apparently doesn't seem to think he needs any. If his uncorroborated word is good enough for you, fine. It isn't good enough for me.[/QUOTE]We already saw your corroboration bullshit blow up with the origin of Covid. We have all these scientists say the same thing publicly: that Covid did not come from a lab but came from nature, but there was not one fact to fit that theory. The people organizing the Covid came from nature theory we now know were not even listed as authors of the article, and the article also went on to say that anyone saying Covid came from a lab was engaging in conspiracy theory.

We also know that two of the authors of the article also were paid off. They first said Covid did in fact come from a lab. They changed their tune once Fauci gave them millions in grant money.

So that blows up your whole corroboration as facts bullshit model for truth? How do you know those corroborating are not doing so out of self interest? Or being paid off? You do not. There were no facts showing Covid came from nature. There was just corroboration.

As for you, you are not looking at Ukrainian weakness:

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-simply-dont-have-ammo-polish-general-says-can-no-longer-supply-ukraine-warns-russia[/URL]

Speaking at a strategy session of the National Security Bureau, the Polish Armed Forces chief of staff General Rajmund Andrzejczak said that when he analyzes the war in Ukraine politically, he is pessimistic.

This is, he explained, because "there is nothing that indicates that Russia will lack the resources to continue the conflict."

He said during the session that he did not feel sanctions would stop Russia from having the funds to continue the war.

The general also offered a bleak assessment of Poland's ability to send ammunition to Ukraine.

"We simply don't have the ammunition. Our industry isn't ready to send the equipment to Ukraine and to maintain our own dwindling reserves," he said.

He noted that he was tirelessly presenting such an analysis in order to raise awareness.

He continued his remarks by saying that "war is not the business of soldiers. "

And how about this for corroboration from Republican Congressmen?

For nearly a year, your administration has poured aid into Ukraine at the expense of USA Military readiness. Supplies that will take years to replenish are being exhausted by Ukraine in a matter of weeks. Ukraine is currently burning through more 155 mm artillery rounds in one month than the USA Can produce in six. We have given more Javelins to Ukraine than can be made in four years. 10 As we demand that industry ramp up production of HIMARS, Javelins, and Stingers to support Ukraine, our allies are left with delivery backlogs for these same weapons. Should our actions entangle us in a confrontation with Russia now or should conflict erupt in the Indo-Pacific in the coming years, we fear that our military will be woefully unprepared to meet these challenges as a direct result of what has been shipped to Ukraine.

You are so blind it is unreal. Ukraine can and probably will lose this war and yet here you are talking about how Putin will die like Hitler. Yeah, Ukraine is going to surround Moscow like Hitler was in Berlin.

You say no one knows what is going to happen and then you come up with this Hilter bullshit.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2812491]We already saw your corroboration bullshit blow up with the origin of Covid. We have all these scientists say the same thing publicly: that Covid did not come from a lab but came from nature, but there was not one fact to fit that theory. The people organizing the Covid came from nature theory we now know were not even listed as authors of the article, and the article also went on to say that anyone saying Covid came from a lab was engaging in conspiracy theory.

We also know that two of the authors of the article also were paid off. They first said Covid did in fact come from a lab. They changed their tune once Fauci gave them millions in grant money.

So that blows up your whole corroboration as facts bullshit model for truth? How do you know those corroborating are not doing so out of self interest? Or being paid off? You do not. There were no facts showing Covid came from nature. There was just corroboration.

As for you, you are not looking at Ukrainian weakness:

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-simply-dont-have-ammo-polish-general-says-can-no-longer-supply-ukraine-warns-russia[/URL]

Speaking at a strategy session of the National Security Bureau, the Polish Armed Forces chief of staff General Rajmund Andrzejczak said that when he analyzes the war in Ukraine politically, he is pessimistic.

This is, he explained, because "there is nothing that indicates that Russia will lack the resources to continue the conflict."

He said during the session that he did not feel sanctions would stop Russia from having the funds to continue the war.

The general also offered a bleak assessment of Poland's ability to send ammunition to Ukraine.

"We simply don't have the ammunition. Our industry isn't ready to send the equipment to Ukraine and to maintain our own dwindling reserves," he said.

He noted that he was tirelessly presenting such an analysis in order to raise awareness.

He continued his remarks by saying that "war is not the business of soldiers. "

And how about this for corroboration from Republican Congressmen?

For nearly a year, your administration has poured aid into Ukraine at the expense of USA Military readiness. Supplies that will take years to replenish are being exhausted by Ukraine in a matter of weeks. Ukraine is currently burning through more 155 mm artillery rounds in one month than the USA Can produce in six. We have given more Javelins to Ukraine than can be made in four years. 10 As we demand that industry ramp up production of HIMARS, Javelins, and Stingers to support Ukraine, our allies are left with delivery backlogs for these same weapons. Should our actions entangle us in a confrontation with Russia now or should conflict erupt in the Indo-Pacific in the coming years, we fear that our military will be woefully unprepared to meet these challenges as a direct result of what has been shipped to Ukraine.

You are so blind it is unreal. Ukraine can and probably will lose this war and yet here you are talking about how Putin will die like Hitler. Yeah, Ukraine is going to surround Moscow like Hitler was in Berlin.

You say no one knows what is going to happen and then you come up with this Hilter bullshit.[/QUOTE]Elvis, Xman and Pauline, believe everything they read and see from there liberal sources. Ukraine is getting destroyed. Putin is now stronger then ever, the sanction have done nothing, but bring Russia and China closer. Great job Biden and his buddies.

This will go down as one of the miss calcuations ever. We go to war with Russia, but the states and Europe forget to produce gas. The world is now in recession and it could get much worse. Putin is a bad guy, but he is totally winning now at home and abroad. This war should have never started.

The funny part is the liberals want this disaster to continiue and Rep. , want it to end. I guess they want to keep blaming Russia for everything. What a disaster, the quicker this ends the better off, everyone will be. Ukraine is not winning anything, I am sorry, they are getting more destroyed every day this continues. There will be nothing left to fight over, Ukraine will lose one or 2 generations of men, and Kiev will probably be land locked. I guess this is a win!