American Politics

"The amount of money Biden and the Dems and in some cases even a few stray Repubs voted to spend to recover America and not just America from the worldwide disaster of Trump's Pandemic is totally defensible. Particularly in light of whatever foolish missteps a Repub / Trump-appointed Fed Chairman was likely to make along the way. If anything, a tad more spent in the usual Dem-chosen areas would have put us in an even better position today.

By contrast, the Trump / Repub $2. 5+ Trillion TCJA they flushed down the shitter with only fewer jobs created with it than without it to show for it was indefensible. As was virtually every Repub tax policy change that precipitated every Great Repub Depression, Great Repub Recession and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction of the past 100 years or so. Every Dem in Congress knew it. That is why they didn't vote for it. And Biden / Dems had greater challenges to meet in order to pull us out of the mess Trump's stewardship left behind than to rehaul the entire tax code in those first 2 years.

There was not going to be some miraculous new result from a predominantly Repub-inspired, proposed and passed legislation than the usual crap-to-Super Crap one we've been getting from them over the past several decades. Every Dem in Congress knew it, of course.

Every voter should have known it too. But I guess the influence of pro-Repub Bothsiderism was too great and some suckers actually fell for Trump's con that spending those Trillions would produce "3%, 4%, maybe 5% or 6%" annual GDP Growth and turn him into "The Greatest Jobs President that God ever created"! Oh, and with the biggest inauguration crowd ever, too! LOL. ".

[URL]https://www.thedailybeast.com/george-w-bush-says-it-was-shocking-to-see-photo-of-prigozhin-serving-him-dinner[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2851750]That's not relevant Elvis. We're addressing transmission of COVID from infected individuals to me when I'm wearing an N95 or KN95 mask.[/QUOTE]Yes, and surgical scrubbing does not work to prevent infections and neither do masks.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2851750]when physicians got vaccinations themselves and wore N95 masks while treating COVID patients.[/QUOTE]Physicians knew the vaccines were put out without proper safety studies being done. Masking was done because it was the law / custom.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2851750]Colonoscopies? People who get regular colonoscopies are about 50% less likely to die of colon cancer than people who don't. One of my best friends and my uncle might be alive today if they had gotten regular colonoscopies.

I don't know much about PSA tests and mammograms, but suspect like non-respirator masks, they reduce the probability of dying from cancer by some percentage that I would believe is significant. And that you would believe is not enough to justify their use.[/QUOTE]Believe? Again, I am looking at and quoting science. You are actually quoting studies showing no statistically significant different between masks and no masks.

This just came out in the literature. And again, I warn you about percent reduction bullshit. This was from JAMA: [URL]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2808648?guestAccessKey=517677e9-c937-4996-9c4a-f734f09de19e&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=082823[/URL].

Conclusions and Relevance The findings of this meta-analysis suggest that current evidence does not substantiate the claim that common cancer screening tests save lives by extending lifetime, except possibly for colorectal cancer screening with sigmoidoscopy.

The only screening test with a significant lifetime gain was sigmoidoscopy (110 days; 95% CI, 0-274 days). There was no significant difference following mammography (0 days: 95% CI, −190 to 237 days), prostate cancer screening (37 days; 95% CI, −37 to 73 days), colonoscopy (37 days; 95% CI, −146 to 146 days), FOBT screening every year or every other year (0 days; 95% CI, −70.7 to 70.7 days), and lung cancer screening (107 days; 95% CI, −286 days to 430 days).

Now do you think doctors are going to stop recommending PSAs, mammograms, and colonoscopies? Hell no! Do you think insurance is going to stop paying for them? Hell No!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2851750]However, as a free man from the Free State of Texas, I have the right to avail myself of any of these prophylactics and procedures, regardless of whether my fellow Texans approve.[/QUOTE]And I completely agree with you on this and on mandates but understand what is fact and what is for custom. I felt better wearing a mask around someone sick who was coughing but it didn't matter if I had a mask or not.

The problem with preventative medicine is I repeat it is very, very, very hard to prove anything extends life. We are all going to die, and I hate it when someone says if only X were done, lives would be saved.

This whole preventative bullshit with Covid was put out there to get rid of Trump. None of the measures worked. Covid is still around, and you still have partisan fools like Tooms who think some panel of "experts" in China would have stopped the pandemic if Trump had not stopped their funding. Never mind the fact that NO preventive measure has EVER worked with Covid.

Even though that fucker Fauci defied the law and funded gain of function research, Covid and the economic mess that followed was all on Trump.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2851964]Yes, and surgical scrubbing does not work to prevent infections and neither do masks.

Physicians knew the vaccines were put out without proper safety studies being done. Masking was done because it was the law / custom.

Believe? Again, I am looking at and quoting science. You are actually quoting studies showing no statistically significant different between masks and no masks.

This just came out in the literature. And again, I warn you about percent reduction bullshit. This was from JAMA: [URL]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2808648?guestAccessKey=517677e9-c937-4996-9c4a-f734f09de19e&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=082823[/URL].

Conclusions and Relevance The findings of this meta-analysis suggest that current evidence does not substantiate the claim that common cancer screening tests save lives by extending lifetime, except possibly for colorectal cancer screening with sigmoidoscopy.

The only screening test with a significant lifetime gain was sigmoidoscopy (110 days; 95% CI, 0-274 days). There was no significant difference following mammography (0 days: 95% CI, −190 to 237 days), prostate cancer screening (37 days; 95% CI, −37 to 73 days), colonoscopy (37 days; 95% CI, −146 to 146 days), FOBT screening every year or every other year (0 days; 95% CI, −70.7 to 70.7 days), and lung cancer screening (107 days; 95% CI, −286 days to 430 days).

Now do you think doctors are going to stop recommending PSAs, mammograms, and colonoscopies? Hell no! Do you think insurance is going to stop paying for them? Hell No!

And I completely agree with you on this and on mandates but understand what is fact and what is for custom. I felt better wearing a mask around someone sick who was coughing but it didn't matter if I had a mask or not.

The problem with preventative medicine is I repeat it is very, very, very hard to prove anything extends life. We are all going to die, and I hate it when someone says if only X were done, lives would be saved.

This whole preventative bullshit with Covid was put out there to get rid of Trump. None of the measures worked. Covid is still around, and you still have partisan fools like Tooms who think some panel of "experts" in China would have stopped the pandemic if Trump had not stopped their funding. Never mind the fact that NO preventive measure has EVER worked with Covid.

Even though that fucker Fauci defied the law and funded gain of function research, Covid and the economic mess that followed was all on Trump.[/QUOTE]You have an excellent point as it relates to health care costs. For example, given that men on average are diagnosed with colon cancer at the age of 68, and given that male life expectancy is 73 years, and given that 6% of men who never had colonoscopies would be expected to come down with colon cancer, and given colonoscopies cut the risk of death from colon cancer by about 50% (average for various studies) and given the 10 year survival rate is 55%, I expect that the average number of days per person added to the life span of American men would be under 100 from regular colonoscopies. The paper reports 37 days.

So is it worth paying for colonoscopies for every American for those 37 days? Hell if I know. Maybe not. Actually no if I have to pay for it for other people.

But for me, even paying for it out of pocket, it's worth it. People have died from colon cancer on both sides of my family.

You can argue that the 37 days is statistically insignificant and there may be no net lives saved. That wouldn't be true. Undoubtedly regular colonoscopies save lives because they reduce a person's probability of dying from colon cancer, cutting it by maybe 50% based on the average study, and the risk of dying from the procedure is infinitesimally low.

This argument, that perhaps the screening isn't worth the cost, would be stronger for PSA tests, and I suspect for mammograms, than colonoscopies.

It's curious that sigmoidoscopy screening was reputedly better than colonoscopies. That makes me doubt the data.

I'm going to sound like a broken record on masks. There's no doubt in my mind that if I'm wearing a well fitting N95 mask properly and sitting next to a coughing person who has COVID, it will reduce the probability I'll get the disease substantially. With eye protection more so. This is based on the papers I've scanned that look at the physics, chemistry and biology of mask material, aerosols, droplets, and the virus. And admittedly, when you take into account that people mostly wore lower quality masks improperly and inconsistently, and the infection fatality ratio of COVID was under 1%, and the people who died of it mostly didn't have a lot of years left, there might not have been a huge number of man-days saved by masks in western countries.

An acquaintance who works at a free market think tank was shouting from the rooftops back in March, 2020 that people should wear masks. This was when Fauci and the CDC were saying don't wear them. His reasoning was that lockdowns otherwise were coming, and we'd have huge amounts of government stimulus and a big run up in the national debt or taxes or both. Maybe we could strap on masks and get on with business. Looking back that may very well have been a viable strategy for the healthier and younger among us, who mostly wouldn't have been clogging up hospitals. And his reasoning makes sense regardless of whether you believe masks provide protection. As long as you think they do, you feel more comfortable going to work.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2851964]
....
This whole preventative bullshit with Covid was put out there to get rid of Trump. None of the measures worked. Covid is still around, and [b]you still have partisan fools like Tooms who think some panel of "experts" in China would have stopped the pandemic if Trump had not stopped their funding. Never mind the fact that NO preventive measure has EVER worked with Covid.[/b]

Even though that fucker Fauci defied the law and funded gain of function research, Covid and the economic mess that followed was all on Trump.[/QUOTE]Your hero Trump is one of those partisan fools who disagrees with you and agrees with me about a heads up from the Pandemic Prevention and Response teams of just 2-3 months being enough to have easily prevented all of the death and economic mess that Trump's decisions in 2018 and 2019 created, in defiance of all expert warnings for him not to do something so dangerous and stupid.

His admission is on audio recording as well:

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/bob-woodward-stunned-trump-told-091902598.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL3MyBR_rYrzTmh_f1UGFaVRI-cExPvIvcggnY2xdATx2cGUWicgKYhtvqTCoxtjyDyFoR351PVDIFKPkI4Vy0zg1GLHAnRspSly8lYJ4h-Jt-Ur6nzWNqIMNUakkIkKwZWLdoNL7H1T5ehHalQp5Dzm6SxwMKBaEvSqCX5GQcgc[/URL]

[QUOTE]"I said, it came out of China, Barron. Pure and simple. It came out of China. And it should've been stopped. And to be honest with you, Barron, they shouldve let it be known it was a problem two months earlier ... the world would'nt have a problem. We could have stopped it easily."[/QUOTE]The only extra spin on it being everyone knew China was not going to be honest about such a thing and give us that heads up.

So that is why we embedded our respresntatives to do it.

Those were the experts Trump defunded and removed, the final and most important ones being removed 5 months before the first cases emerged. Whereupon, sure enough, as far more intelligent and comperent Economic and National Security stewards than Trump predicted, for the first time in many years China had the unmonitored freedom to lie about it while a likely manageable endemic developed into a much less manageable Pandemic.

Oh, and this part is extremely important and is directly related to the "Flatten The Curve" concept understood and promoted by scientists and experts like Dr. Fauci; the earlier heads up alerts are not expected to stop a stubborn viral spread from eventually ccurring anyway every time. It is meant to take measures as early as possible to contain, quarantine, isolate and SLOW DOWN the potential spread long enough to prevent hospitals, staff, equipment, supplies and facilities from being overwhelmed all at once and in order to do exactly what you have suggested over and over again would have been the better approach with regard to an UNRUSHED creation, testing and administration of a more effective vaccine for it.

You know, to avoid having to mandate worldwide closures, severe travel restrictions, mask wearing, social distancing and so on.

You must agree with me and Trump that would have produced about 1000% better outcome, right?

[URL]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10805834/[/URL]

Potential side benefit: If you’re into anal stimulation, and I’m not, this would be the mother of all prostrate massages.

"Potential side benefit: If you're into anal stimulation, and I'm not, this would be the mother of all prostrate massages. ".

I've had 3 in the last 15 yrs and I'm 55 yrs old.

I know a guy that died because he didn't get one.

He died with the doctors order in his wallet, he was a very very smart guy, but he would tell you.

He fucked up this one.

"Your hero Trump is one of those partisan fools who disagrees with you and agrees with me about a heads up from the Pandemic Prevention and Response teams of just 2-3 months being enough to have easily prevented all of the death and economic mess that Trump's decisions in 2018 and 2019 created, in defiance of all expert warnings for him not to do something so dangerous and stupid.

His admission is on audio recording as well:

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/bob-woodward-stunned-trump-told-091902598.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL3MyBR_rYrzTmh_f1UGFaVRI-cExPvIvcggnY2xdATx2cGUWicgKYhtvqTCoxtjyDyFoR351PVDIFKPkI4Vy0zg1GLHAnRspSly8lYJ4h-Jt-Ur6nzWNqIMNUakkIkKwZWLdoNL7H1T5ehHalQp5Dzm6SxwMKBaEvSqCX5GQcgc[/URL]

The only extra spin on it being everyone knew China was not going to be honest about such a thing and give us that heads up.

So that is why we embedded our respresntatives to do it.

Those were the experts Trump defunded and removed, the final and most important ones being removed 5 months before the first cases emerged. Whereupon, sure enough, as far more intelligent and comperent Economic and National Security stewards than Trump predicted, for the first time in many years China had the unmonitored freedom to lie about it while a likely manageable endemic developed into a much less manageable Pandemic.

Oh, and this part is extremely important and is directly related to the "Flatten The Curve" concept understood and promoted by scientists and experts like Dr. Fauci; the earlier heads up alerts are not expected to stop a stubborn viral spread from eventually ccurring anyway every time. It is meant to take measures as early as possible to contain, quarantine, isolate and SLOW DOWN the potential spread long enough to prevent hospitals, staff, equipment, supplies and facilities from being overwhelmed all at once and in order to do exactly what you have suggested over and over again would have been the better approach with regard to an UNRUSHED creation, testing and administration of a more effective vaccine for it.

You know, to avoid having to mandate worldwide closures, severe travel restrictions, mask wearing, social distancing and so on.

You must agree with me and Trump that would have produced about 1000% better outcome, right?

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/us/politics/cornel-west-campaign-manager-peter-daou-green-party-democrats.html[/URL]

He Was a Hillary Clinton Cheerleader. Now he Calls Democrats a Threat.

Peter Daou, a former Democratic activist, is running Cornel West's third-party campaign. He talked to The New York Times about how he came to view the two-party system as a bigger problem than Donald J. Trump.

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Peter Daou.

Peter Daou, seen here in 2016, when he was a combative defender of Hillary Clinton. Now he manages Cornel West's campaign for president on the Green Party ticket. Credit. Todd Heisler / The New York Times.

Charles Homans.

By Charles Homans.

Sept. 13,2023, 12:06 pm ET.

On Monday, Cornel West, a left-wing scholar and third-party presidential candidate, announced that he had hired Peter Daou as his campaign manager. The choice adds a new twist to one of the most unusual career trajectories in political consulting.

A Lebanese American jazz keyboardist and dance music producer — one of his early club remixes was declared "smokin'" by Billboard in 1991 — Mr. Daou, 58, found his way into politics in the mid-2000's. He started as a liberal blogger and then became a digital adviser for John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign and Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign.

In 2016, he achieved prominence as the chief executive of Shareblue, a pro-Clinton megaphone that cultivated online outrage against Donald J. Trump, the political media and Bernie Sanders, Mrs. Clinton's primary rival. (Mr. Daou was not affiliated with the 2016 Clinton campaign, but he did get a shout out in Mrs. Clinton's subsequent book, "What Happened. ") At the time, a Sanders strategist called Mr. Daou the "pond scum of American politics" — so it was a surprise when, four years later, Mr. Daou transformed from Clinton superfan to an equally loud supporter of Mr. Sanders, the Vermont socialist.

It was the first of a series of record-scratch shifts in Mr. Daou's politics. He has since quit the Democratic Party, called on President Biden to resign over campaign-trail allegations of groping, and worked briefly for Marianne Williamson's campaign before signing onto Dr. West's Green Party candidacy.

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In 2017, Mr. Daou started a short-lived online platform, endorsed by Mrs. Clinton, that aimed to fight "a proliferation of confusing, chaotic misinformation" with verified, Clinton-affirming facts. He denounced "Russia's successful hacking of our election using cyberespionage, online intimidation, and disinformation. " he now mocks the "liberal speak" of Democrats: "January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Orange man bad, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin," he posted this month on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.

"My evolution, philosophically and politically, I've been exceptionally transparent about it," Mr. Daou said in a phone conversation with The New York Times, shortly after the West campaign's announcement. The interview has been edited and condensed.

How would you define success for the Cornel West campaign? What are you trying to do here?

The first definition of success, to me, is a President Cornel West. But there are many, many ways of thinking about what this campaign can achieve. One would be to finally break the grip of the duopoly, you know, the monopoly of the two parties where you really just get two choices.

You'll hear Democrats saying, "We're saving democracy, we're protecting democracy. " Well, you don't protect democracy by trying to kick Greens off the ballot, and you don't protect democracy by telling people, "You're a spoiler. " You can't kill democracy to save it.

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Delivering a speech, Cornel West holds a microphone in one hand and points upward with his other.

Cornel West is running for president as a third-party candidate. Credit. Damian Dovarganes / Associated Press.

During the 2020 primary, you wrote an essay in The Nation warning that fighting among the various factions of the American left, "at a time when they need to marshal every asset to defeat Trump and his G. O. P. Cronies," would be "an epic act of self-destruction. " Jaime Harrison, the Democratic National Committee chairman, has made more or less the same argument about Dr. West's candidacy, saying, "This is not the time to play around on the margins. ".

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Somebody quoted William Blake, in "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell," on Twitter: "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind. " Yes, in 2020, I was buying into these spoiler arguments. I was going after the progressives and the leftists and the Green Party members who I have now come to see as my family. And it was a mistake. I was wrong. You know, it's OK to be wrong.

In 2016, you worked for Shareblue, which a lot of people would credit with stoking the my-party-right-or-wrong strain of Democratic social media posting that you now decry. Do you feel like you had a hand in creating this thing that you're fighting?

I think I played a part, yes. Because look, when you're in that partisan war, you're in the trenches and you're fighting and you're throwing punches. You get caught up in the moment, you believe your side is right, and you fight. I'm one human being, but I take responsibility for that. I apologize for that. The way I see it, what I can do right now, especially with Dr. West, is break out of it.

You've recently made fun of what you call the "orange man bad" school of liberal discourse.

My former liberal Democratic political friends say, "Oh, you just love Trump, you're a Trump supporter. " No, I oppose Trump more than you do. The problem is painting Donald Trump as some singularly dangerous figure, because it takes attention away from all the other problems. That's propaganda. That's intentional. And it also raises a lot of money for the Democratic Party.

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You wrote a book in 2019 arguing that "nothing in American life is more of a threat to our democracy than the Republican Party's lurch to the far right. " You're now arguing that the Democratic Party "is itself a threat to democracy. " Are these threats comparable, to your mind?

I consider myself an independent leftist. I haven't always been in that place. For a long time, I worked within the Democratic Party, and slowly moved toward the left, to the point where I quit the party in 2020. And, having done that, I look much more objectively at these arguments that Republicans are far, far worse and far, far more dangerous than Democrats, and if Trump gets elected again, it's the end of the world, it's the end of the country.

When we say we're protecting democracy, there's an assumption there that there is a democracy. You only are given two choices. And both parties are responsible for that. It's certainly a threat to democracy to take Joe Biden, who 67 percent of Democratic voters in a recent CNN poll do not want to be the Democratic nominee.

If that's the case, why not challenge him in the primary? Why run as a third-party challenger?

I think what we've seen this cycle, and the last couple of cycles with Bernie Sanders, is the Democratic Party will not give the opportunity for somebody like Dr. West to actually engage in a fair primary process. So I think this is the right way to go. The Green Party will get on the ballot, or we're working to get on it, in all 50 states. We are going to make sure this is a fair process because it's not going to be a fair process within the Democratic Party.

Ron Klain, who until recently was Mr. Biden's chief of staff, wrote a blurb for your 2019 book. When was the last time you talked to anybody in Bidenworld?

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I have not been in contact with any of my establishment colleagues for many years. I'm sure they don't have very high opinions of me. But it really doesn't matter to me, because this is not about my personal connections.

You recently addressed the young Biden-supporting TikTok influencer Harry Sisson, comparing his enthusiasm for Mr. Biden to yours for Mrs. Clinton in 2016, and warning him: "Trust me, you'll regret it later. " For a long time, even after you embraced Bernie Sanders, you seemed to stand by your years as a Clinton die-hard. Are looking back differently at that now?

I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. Looking back now, I was just enabling and supporting a system that is oppressing people. So for a younger person getting involved, I say, look at the system itself. Look at the suffering created by the system and fight the system. Don't get attached to one politician or one party. I find the idea of anarchist philosophy, along the lines of David Graeber, quite intriguing: You know, no power dynamics, no coercion, a structure in which in which we all cooperate, and there's true equality, right?

In the end, what Dr. West is doing, this is the way you do it: You go at the system directly. And that's what we're going to be doing to the very last day. He will be on the ballot. And this is not going to be some sort of process in which, you know, "Down the line, well, maybe not, if this is going to bring on a Republican. ".

We are working to get on the ballot. In the general election, there are going to be at least three choices, and he will be one of them.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852038]
I've had 3 in the last 15 yrs and I'm 55 yrs old.

I know a guy that died because he didn't get one.

He died with the doctors order in his wallet, he was a very very smart guy, but he would tell you.

He fucked up this one.[/QUOTE]One of my best friends died of colon cancer when he was about 45. He was a walking poster boy for everything you can do that causes cancer. He worked for a fuel distribution company delivering gasoline, drank a lot, smoked a lot, consumed various and sundry illegal substances, and would run around in his boat all day in the summer and get burnt to a crisp. If he'd started getting colonoscopies at 40 like you, he'd probably still be alive. Well, unless something like lung cancer, liver cancer or melanoma got him by now.

A couple of aunts and uncles, on both sides of my family, never got colonoscopies and died of colon cancer as well.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2851964]This just came out in the literature. And again, I warn you about percent reduction bullshit. This was from JAMA: [URL]https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2808648?guestAccessKey=517677e9-c937-4996-9c4a-f734f09de19e&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=082823[/URL].[/QUOTE]Elvis, please note from my reply to the Marquis above that I have a particular interest in colon cancer. So I looked at your link a little closer, with that in mind. While the authors promote their paper as some kind of meta study, they only looked at one colonoscopy study, this one, by Bretthauer et al:

[URL]https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2208375[/URL]

And Bretthauer et al weren't looking at how effective colonoscopies were at reducing incidence of colon cancer and deaths from colon cancer. They were looking at the effectiveness of inviting people to get colonoscopies! Only 42% of the invitees actually got colonoscopies. I bet people like me, with a history of colon cancer in my family, were more likely to take them up on their kind offer to shove a massive coil of tubing up their asses than others.

And certain of the findings of the study would support colonoscopies for screening. See.

[URL]https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/10/13/1128531054/colonoscopies-save-lives-doctors-push-back-against-european-study-that-casts-dou[/URL]

This is an excerpt from a political thread on another hooker board by a poster who goes by the handle Manslut. Manslut is a Democrat, responding to criticism of Joe Biden.

[B]A President has absolutely no control over the Economy, get that through your damn heads people.

Look at all the people we have with Economics degrees, and they cant control it. Oh they can tell us what its not doing or doing, in other words read & analyze stats, but they cant fix anything with itWe have a Federal Reserve Chairman, an economic expert, a banking and finance expert and he cant control inflation.

Fuck that bullshit a POTUS can control the EconomyLMAO

A POTUS cant control the price of a carton of eggs, much less a taco at Jack-in-the-Crack, and you think he can control or influence the price of a barrel oil, or the GDPLMAO II[/B]

Food for thought Tooms. Food for thought. I freely admit that Biden's policies currently have nothing to do with inflation in the price of eggs. Although they did in 2021.

Mitt is history.

Mitch is next.

Nutty Nancy and Dirty Joe will take up the rear.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/13/scarborough-every-democrat-i-speak-to-off-air-says-biden-is-too-old-to-run/[/URL]

Its time to MAGA AGAIN!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852306]This is an excerpt from a political thread on another hooker board by a poster who goes by the handle Manslut. Manslut is a Democrat, responding to criticism of Joe Biden.

[B]A President has absolutely no control over the Economy, get that through your damn heads people.

Look at all the people we have with Economics degrees, and they cant control it. Oh they can tell us what its not doing or doing, in other words read & analyze stats, but they cant fix anything with itWe have a Federal Reserve Chairman, an economic expert, a banking and finance expert and he cant control inflation.

Fuck that bullshit a POTUS can control the EconomyLMAO

A POTUS cant control the price of a carton of eggs, much less a taco at Jack-in-the-Crack, and you think he can control or influence the price of a barrel oil, or the GDPLMAO II[/B]

Food for thought Tooms. Food for thought. I freely admit that Biden's policies currently have nothing to do with inflation in the price of eggs. Although they did in 2021.[/QUOTE]Nothing to say about Manslut's conclusions other than that is clearly, utterly and inarguably wrong.

Does a POTUS candidate run and campaign on a set of ecomomic proposals and objectives?

Does that winning POTUS then propose corresponding ecomomic legislation and / or request it be placed right in the budget and / or the tax code?

Can a POTUS veto or change in many ways before signing any legislation that has not locked in a veto-proof Senate majority?

Is a POTUS expected to notice, assess and at least respond in some way to storm clouds on the horizon heading our way?

To mention just a few obvious questions.

Oh, and the POTUS is the one who interviews, vets and nominates for approval the Fed Chairman, right?

To suggest that a person who weilds more stewardship control over economic legislation and response to whatever tweaks and turns might be necessary to avert or diminish disaster than any other person on the Planet is not "responsible" for much of the outcomes and results, barring total stupidity like the Repub Grinbitches and McQarthys stumbling into one idiotic Government Shutdown after another or threat of one in order to crash the USA economy regardless of the positive trajectory, is no different than arguing that economic agendas, legislation, budgets and tax rates don't matter, response to dire trends and storm clouds or doing nothing at all don't matter and that "shit just happens", good or bad in the economy and it is out of mere mortals' control to change it. Well, might as well not bother to vote then.

So Manslut is a stealth Repub or an unknowing one.

LOL. Let me guess; he also attributes the uninterrupted pattern of the last 100 years or so of historic jobs creation and no Great Recessions under Dem POTUS stewardship after they propose and pass their favorite Dem Party economic agenda legislation vs every Great Recession and massive jobs destruction and none of the historic jobs creation in almost those same 100 years under Repub so-called potuses after they propose and pass their favorite Repub Party economic agenda legislation as merely a "wild coincidence", right? Lolol.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852308]Mitt is history.

Mitch is next.

Nutty Nancy and Dirty Joe will take up the rear.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/13/scarborough-every-democrat-i-speak-to-off-air-says-biden-is-too-old-to-run/[/URL]

Its time to MAGA AGAIN![/QUOTE]I did a Google Search for "Betting odds for the 2024 Presidential election" and could not find a current one that did not place Joe Biden as the clear favorite to win. Can you?

I stopped looking after the first 6 results.

[URL]https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024/winner[/URL]

[URL]https://www.empirestakes.com/ny-sports-betting/presidential-election-odds[/URL]

[URL]https://www.thelines.com/odds/election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.actionnetwork.com/politics/presidential-election-odds-2024[/URL]

[URL]https://www.covers.com/politics/us-election-betting-odds[/URL]

My favorite age-related quote lately is, "When Joe was a Senior, Donnie was a Freshman. " LOL.

"Nothing to say about Manslut's conclusions other than that is clearly, utterly and inarguably wrong.

Does a POTUS candidate run and campaign on a set of economic proposals and objectives?

Does that winning POTUS then propose corresponding economic legislation and / or request it be placed right in the budget and / or the tax code?

Can a POTUS veto or change in many ways before signing any legislation that has not locked in a veto-proof Senate majority?

Is a POTUS expected to notice, assess and at least respond in some way to storm clouds on the horizon heading our way?

To mention just a few obvious questions.

Oh, and the POTUS is the one who interviews, vets and nominates for approval the Fed Chairman, right?

To suggest that a person who weilds more stewardship control over economic legislation and response to whatever tweaks and turns might be necessary to avert or diminish disaster than any other person on the Planet is not "responsible" for much of the outcomes and results, barring total stupidity like the Repub Grinbitches and McQarthys stumbling into one idiotic Government Shutdown after another or threat of one in order to crash the USA economy regardless of the positive trajectory, is no different than arguing that economic agendas, legislation, budgets and tax rates don't matter, response to dire trends and storm clouds or doing nothing at all don't matter and that "shit just happens", good or bad in the economy and it is out of mere mortals' control to change it. Well, might as well not bother to vote then.

So Manslut is a stealth Repub or an unknowing one.

LOL. Let me guess; he also attributes the uninterrupted pattern of the last 100 years or so of historic jobs creation and no Great Recessions under Dem POTUS stewardship after they propose and pass their favorite Dem Party economic agenda legislation vs every Great Recession and massive jobs destruction and none of the historic jobs creation in almost those same 100 years under Repub so-called potuses after they propose and pass their favorite Repub Party economic agenda legislation as merely a "wild coincidence", right? Lolol."

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/09/13/carney-on-kudlow-a-uaw-strike-will-be-bidens-fault-because-his-policies-have-destroyed-autoworkers-wages/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2851815]So the permanent rates in that monstrosity might only add $1. 5 Trillion to the deficit in the first 10 years of their existence. Then what happens? Does the Earth evaporate and we no longer keep count of how much it continues to add to the deficit while adding zero net gain to GDP and fewer jobs with it than without it?

Unless "permanent" means something other than "permanent", it will continue to add at least $1. 5 Trillion to the deficit with nothing to show for it every 10 years. Goodie. I have obviously been too generous and forgiving of that monstrosity by only attributing $2. 5 Trillion to its net cost to America. I could have accurately characterized it as flushing $100 Trillion down the shitter if it takes long enough to repeal it.

As a purported USA National Economy "stimulous" and "jobs creator", it surpasses the definition of "flushing money down the shitter. ".

Now, if they had sold it as and named it "The Great Trump / Repub Jobs Losing, Deficit Skyrocketing Gift To Corporate CEOs and the Super Wealthy To Be Paid For By Everyone Else Act", then I would really have nothing to criticize about it in terms of a piece of legislation accomplishing its stated goals.[/QUOTE]This is proof that even the brightest among us are sucked in by MSNBC and Progressive demagoguery. Blame it on the corporations and the wealthy, who don't pay their fair share. Right.

There were three main provisions of the Republican's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

1. Temporary cuts in personal income tax rates, which made our income tax system more progressive, by lowering the % of income middle income Americans pay in income tax by more than higher-income Americans. Democrats could have chosen to accelerate the sunset of these cuts in 2021 and 2022 but chose not to.

2. A permanent cut in the corporate income tax rate, so that our total (federal + state) corporate rate went from the highest in the developed world to the middle of the pack. This was coupled with the GILTI tax on American companies' income from foreign subsidiaries, and legislation that encouraged American companies to bring cash from overseas back home. No Democrats want to go back to what we have before. The moderates and Biden don't want to raise the federal corporate rate all the way back to 35%. And the Progressives like Sanders and Warren don't want to do away with the GILTI tax. Democrats could have chosen to modify these changes in the corporate tax regime in 2021 and 2022 but wisely chose not to.

3. A temporary implementation of a 20% deduction for pass-through income for small companies, and for companies with high labor and depreciation expense as a % of revenue. This is the so called Qualified Business Income (QBI) deduction. I don't believe that government should play favorites. Taxpayers should be treated the same. As such I believe that Democrats should have done away with the QBI deduction in 2021 and 2022. But they chose not to.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852353]Oh, and the POTUS is the one who interviews, vets and nominates for approval the Fed Chairman, right?[/QUOTE]The Fed has two mandates, to control inflation and to support high employment. Yes, under G. William Miller and Paul Volcker, inflation and unemployment soared. Both were appointed to the Fed Board of Governors and the Fed Chair by Jimmy Carter, a Democrat.

Jerome Powell was appointed to the Fed Board of Governors by Barrack Obama, a Democrat. He was initially appointed Chair of the Fed by Donald Trump, a Republican, and later re-appointed Chair by Joe Biden, a Democrat. Unemployment and inflation also soared under Powell.

HOWEVER, most Fed governors voted along with the Chairs during the Carter, Reagan, Trump and Biden administrations. And Manslut's excellent pronouncement applies to Fed Chairs, just like presidents. So I don't fault Democratic presidents for their appointments.

I did a Google Search for "Betting odds for the 2024 Presidential election" and could not find a current one that did not place Joe Biden as the clear favorite to win. Can you?

I stopped looking after the first 6 results.

[URL]https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024/winner[/URL]

[URL]https://www.empirestakes.com/ny-sports-betting/presidential-election-odds[/URL]

[URL]https://www.thelines.com/odds/election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.actionnetwork.com/politics/presidential-election-odds-20[/URL]

[URL]https://www.covers.com/politics/us-election-betting-odds[/URL]

My favorite age-related quote lately is, "When Joe was a Senior, Donnie was a Freshman. ".

Well that's ODD?

My guess is the smart money that runs these gambling operations doesn't always pick the likeliest winner per se.

But they like to cover their asses before anything else.

Did the oligarchs cheat and rig 2020 only to have our Lord and Savior walk right back in? Doubtful.

They will probably double down.

Thats why they are going so hard on the J6 protesters.

They want to try to discourage the sequel if they cheat again.

Hopefully it will just escalate to full scale Civil War 2. 0 if necessary.

Dirty Joe and his corrupt DOJ are doing their part.

Next the corrupt CDC may be screaming lockdowns and we need mail in ballots again.

Be ready for all kinds of BULLSHIT ala 2020.

I hope the true PATRIOTS of this country show them a REAL insurrection if they cheat again!

A really Bloody Blood bath in DC 1812 style!

We have all the guns and ammo its time to put them to good use.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852308]Mitt is history.

Mitch is next.

Nutty Nancy and Dirty Joe will take up the rear.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/13/scarborough-every-democrat-i-speak-to-off-air-says-biden-is-too-old-to-run/[/URL]

Its time to MAGA AGAIN![/QUOTE]I like Mitt and Mitch. True, they sometimes supported the growth of our inefficient and wasteful Federal government. But they were on the side of fiscal sanity more than the majority of the Washington political class.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852457]
[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/09/13/carney-on-kudlow-a-uaw-strike-will-be-bidens-fault-because-his-policies-have-destroyed-autoworkers-wages/[/URL][/QUOTE]This may hurt Biden. He shouts his support for the workingman and Big Labor from the rooftops. Michigan may just follow in the footsteps of West Virginia, which votes for Republicans by huge margins, in large part because Democrats took their green agenda too far, and jobs were lost.

"I like Mitt and Mitch. True, they sometimes supported the growth of our inefficient and wasteful Federal government. But they were on the side of fiscal sanity more than the majority of the Washington political class.

This may hurt Biden. He shouts his support for the workingman and Big Labor from the rooftops. Michigan may just follow in the footsteps of West Virginia, which votes for Republicans by huge margins, in large part because Democrats took their green agenda too far, and jobs were lost. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/12/exclusive-cliff-sims-trumps-populism-is-the-true-heir-to-reagans-blue-collar-conservatism-not-pences-globalism/[/URL]

[URL]https://nationalinterest.org/feature/trump-doctrine-peace-through-unrestrained-strength-206386[/URL]

[URL]https://amgreatness.com/2023/09/13/revenge-of-the-bums/[/URL]

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/singer-who-said-mutilating-children-is-bad-set-to-get-best-sales-in-her-career-on-new-album/[/URL]

"I like Mitt and Mitch. True, they sometimes supported the growth of our inefficient and wasteful Federal government. But they were on the side of fiscal sanity more than the majority of the Washington political class.

This may hurt Biden. He shouts his support for the workingman and Big Labor from the rooftops. Michigan may just follow in the footsteps of West Virginia, which votes for Republicans by huge margins, in large part because Democrats took their green agenda too far, and jobs were lost. ".

I'm guessing he was going to lose reelection that's why hes quitting.

How many that voted to impeach Our Lord and Savior are still around? LMAO.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/12/mitt-romney-backs-joe-biden-impeachment-inquiry/[/URL]

Mitt has been very bad for Mormons.

If you didn't hate Mormons before you sure do now, Thanks Mittens LMAO.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852414]I did a Google Search for "Betting odds for the 2024 Presidential election" and could not find a current one that did not place Joe Biden as the clear favorite to win. Can you?

I stopped looking after the first 6 results.

[URL]https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024/winner[/URL]

[URL]https://www.empirestakes.com/ny-sports-betting/presidential-election-odds[/URL]

[URL]https://www.thelines.com/odds/election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.actionnetwork.com/politics/presidential-election-odds-2024[/URL]

[URL]https://www.covers.com/politics/us-election-betting-odds[/URL]

My favorite age-related quote lately is, "When Joe was a Senior, Donnie was a Freshman. " LOL.[/QUOTE]The easiest to understand is predictit.org. You can more or less assume the numbers quoted there correlate with probabilities. It's legal for USA Residents to bet on predictit.org, as it's run by a nonprofit for research purposes. The downside is you're limited on your bets. The maximum punt is something like $1000.

Some people get Alzheimer's in their 50's and others stay sharp as a tack into their 90's. That's not to say that either of our leading presidential candidates is sharp as a tack. Neither is.

""I like Mitt and Mitch. True, they sometimes supported the growth of our inefficient and wasteful Federal government. But they were on the side of fiscal sanity more than the majority of the Washington political class.

This may hurt Biden. He shouts his support for the workingman and Big Labor from the rooftops. Michigan may just follow in the footsteps of West Virginia, which votes for Republicans by huge margins, in large part because Democrats took their green agenda too far, and jobs were lost. ".

[URL]https://theintercept.com/2023/09/12/national-security-dementia-mcconnell-feinstein/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=The%20Intercept%20Newsletter[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852486]This is proof that even the brightest among us are sucked in by MSNBC and Progressive demagoguery. Blame it on the corporations and the wealthy, who don't pay their fair share. Right.

There were three main provisions of the Republican's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

1. Temporary cuts in personal income tax rates, which made our income tax system more progressive, by lowering the % of income middle income Americans pay in income tax by more than higher-income Americans. Democrats could have chosen to accelerate the sunset of these cuts in 2021 and 2022 but chose not to.

2. A permanent cut in the corporate income tax rate, so that our total (federal + state) corporate rate went from the highest in the developed world to the middle of the pack. This was coupled with the GILTI tax on American companies' income from foreign subsidiaries, and legislation that encouraged American companies to bring cash from overseas back home. No Democrats want to go back to what we have before. The moderates and Biden don't want to raise the federal corporate rate all the way back to 35%. And the Progressives like Sanders and Warren don't want to do away with the GILTI tax. Democrats could have chosen to modify these changes in the corporate tax regime in 2021 and 2022 but wisely chose not to.

3. A temporary implementation of a 20% deduction for pass-through income for small companies, and for companies with high labor and depreciation expense as a % of revenue. This is the so called Qualified Business Income (QBI) deduction. I don't believe that government should play favorites. Taxpayers should be treated the same. As such I believe that Democrats should have done away with the QBI deduction in 2021 and 2022. But they chose not to.

The Fed has two mandates, to control inflation and to support high employment. [B]Yes, under G. William Miller and Paul Volcker, inflation and unemployment soared. Both were appointed to the Fed Board of Governors and the Fed Chair by Jimmy Carter, a Democrat.[/b]

Jerome Powell was appointed to the Fed Board of Governors by Barrack Obama, a Democrat. He was initially appointed Chair of the Fed by Donald Trump, a Republican, and later re-appointed Chair by Joe Biden, a Democrat. Unemployment and inflation also soared under Powell.

HOWEVER, most Fed governors voted along with the Chairs during the Carter, Reagan, Trump and Biden administrations. And Manslut's excellent pronouncement applies to Fed Chairs, just like presidents. So I don't fault Democratic presidents for their appointments.[/QUOTE]Miller was dumped by Carter after serving 18 months. One of the shortest Fed Chairman tenures ever. He was not willing to do what was difficult but necessary in order to tame Nixon / Ford's hyper-inflation. Then Carter interviewed, vetted and appointed Volcker because he was prepared to do what was difficult but necessary to tame it. Hyper-inflation topped out and began its steady month-over-month decline a mere 3-4 months after Volcker began raising Fed Funds rates at the far more appropraite levels and speed, nearly a full year before Reagan took office.

You seem to think "the price of eggs" in this regard = "The Economy". I have no problem associating higher prices for eggs, gas, housing, whatever with a President's influence on the economy. As long as you don't ONLY focus on the price of eggs and so on.

For example, in the case of Nixon / Ford, there was hyper-inflation with no noticeable increase in jobs or wages.

However, while Carter's brilliant Fed Chairman appointment, Paul Volcker, was quickly bringing down the rate of inflation long before Teflon Ronnie was told by Nancy he was even running for President, Carter's job creation record was among the greatest of all time.

More Americans could afford to buy more eggs and shovel them down their throats at the end of 1980 after that jobs creation record than they could by the end of 1984 after Reagan's Great Repub Recession and his whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates.

Same with Biden's economic srewardship vs Trump's. Aside from Trump's less than average economic results compared to the previous 10-11 presidents with his $1. 5 Trillion net addition to the deficit every 10 years with nothing else to show for it legislation already busy creating fewer jobs with it than without it even before 2020.

By the time his typically atrocious Repub economic and national security stewardship created Trump's Pandemic in 2020 there was no doubt buying and eating eggs was going to be a hell of a lot more difficult for a hell of a lot more Americans, the millions upon millions whose jobs were wiped out by his typically atrocious Repub stewardship.

Was the price of eggs higher in late 2021 and still today than it was in January 2021? Damn good reason it CAN be while more Americans have jobs with better wages to be spent at open supermarkets with shelves stocked with plenty of eggs now.

You want cheaper eggs and cheaper gas in the system? Repubs always have their favorite solution for that goal at the ready; plunge America into another of their patented Great Repub Depressions or Great Repub Recessions, wipe out a few million jobs and, bingo, there's your cheap eggs, gas and houses for ya'!

How about the millions of diabetics in America who will no longer need to pay $1000 per month for insulin and can now pick it up for $35 pocket change thanks to Biden's legislation and stewardship? Think they have an easier time buying eggs and gas today than they did in January 2021? LOL. Aside from whatever medical issues may ensue for diabetics eating eggs. I really don't know. But you get the point.

Take into consideration many economic conditions and overall results and I have no problem "blaming" the higher price of eggs or anything else at just about any time on the economic stewardship and legislation results of a president.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852519]I'm guessing he was going to lose reelection that's why hes quitting.

How many that voted to impeach Our Lord and Savior are still around? LMAO.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/12/mitt-romney-backs-joe-biden-impeachment-inquiry/[/URL]

Mitt has been very bad for Mormons.

If you didn't hate Mormons before you sure do now, Thanks Mittens LMAO.[/QUOTE]Yes, Mitt would get primaried by a vindictive Trump if he runs in 2024, and probably lose. In Utah, it won't make much difference, as the Republican, whoever he or she is, will triumph in November.

Trump did the same thing to Jeff Flake in Arizona. Flake, who would have won the general election, withdrew because he knew he couldn't get past the primary. If not for Trump and his influence over the primaries and general elections, Republicans would control the Senate and have a solid majority in the House. Georgia would be red instead of purple, and Arizona might just be red too. Donald Trump is the Democrat's Best Friend.

Respectfully Marquis, Trumpsters only represent about 35% of American voters. I don't think the Republican Party can win enough seats to control the House and Senate if it continues kicking people like Romney to the side.

"Yes, Mitt would get primaried by a vindictive Trump if he runs in 2024, and probably lose. In Utah, it won't make much difference, as the Republican, whoever he or she is, will triumph in November.

Trump did the same thing to Jeff Flake in Arizona. Flake, who would have won the general election, withdrew because he knew he couldn't get past the primary. If not for Trump and his influence over the primaries and general elections, Republicans would control the Senate and have a solid majority in the House. Georgia would be red instead of purple, and Arizona might just be red too. Donald Trump is the Democrat's Best Friend.

Respectfully Marquis, Trumpsters only represent about 35% of American voters. I don't think the Republican Party can win enough seats to control the House and Senate if it continues kicking people like Romney to the side. ".

He only ran for Orins seat because he just wanted to be able to vote to impeach Our lord and Savior.

If that's not vindictive? What did Trump do to him?

During the 1st sham impeachment trial wasnt he the only member of the senate to ever vote for impeachment for POTUS of his own party.

Thats what he joined the senate to do.

You're much more conservative than I, you should hate him more than I do, he is a RINO.

Former Gov of Mass, his Romneycare served as a model for Obamacare.

I am a Nationalist populist, I'm quite optimistic Trump will expand the partys appeal with non whites 2023-2029.

The quintessential big tent, stay tuned.

"Yes, Mitt would get primaried by a vindictive Trump if he runs in 2024, and probably lose. In Utah, it won't make much difference, as the Republican, whoever he or she is, will triumph in November.

Trump did the same thing to Jeff Flake in Arizona. Flake, who would have won the general election, withdrew because he knew he couldn't get past the primary. If not for Trump and his influence over the primaries and general elections, Republicans would control the Senate and have a solid majority in the House. Georgia would be red instead of purple, and Arizona might just be red too. Donald Trump is the Democrat's Best Friend.

Respectfully Marquis, Trumpsters only represent about 35% of American voters. I don't think the Republican Party can win enough seats to control the House and Senate if it continues kicking people like Romney to the side. ".

Hes getting rid of all the trash in DC slowly but surely.

Flake.

Mitt.

Cheney.

Bush.

Clinton.

And many many more.

Our country and the world are in a much better place because of him.

And then he will beat Biden a 2nd time soon, Inshallah.

So hopefully then he and his junkie bagman can finally share a cell in Florence.

Allahu Akbar.

Remember his signature line from his TV show which I've never seen (I probably haven't watched a TV in at least 20 yrs) you're FIRED.

Thats what he does he gets rid of those scumbags for the American people, he isn't vindictive per se.

Hes doing it at our behest!!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852575]Yes, Mitt would get primaried by a vindictive Trump if he runs in 2024, and probably lose. In Utah, it won't make much difference, as the Republican, whoever he or she is, will triumph in November.

Trump did the same thing to Jeff Flake in Arizona. Flake, who would have won the general election, withdrew because he knew he couldn't get past the primary. If not for Trump and his influence over the primaries and general elections, Republicans would control the Senate and have a solid majority in the House. Georgia would be red instead of purple, and Arizona might just be red too. Donald Trump is the Democrat's Best Friend.

Respectfully Marquis, Trumpsters only represent about 35% of American voters. I don't think the Republican Party can win enough seats to control the House and Senate if it continues kicking people like Romney to the side.[/QUOTE]Please don't work too hard to help Marquis come to the realization that his and your Party's support for his lord and savior has contributed mightily to it losing, losing, losing and losing since his infamous ride down that escalator.

Losing the vote in 2016, but snatched from total defeat only by the Repub-rigged EC system.

Losing the House.

Losing the Senate.

Rightfully losing the WH vote and the Repub-rigged EC system in 2020.

Lose another Senate seat in 2020.

Losing practically every special election along the way.

Losing even the middling average number of House seats in their WH opposition's first midterm, squeaking out a pathetic Pink Tinkle instead and perjaps only that much because several districts were redrawn by Repub governors whose creative Repub magic marker redrawing penmanship has since been spanked by federal judges.

I would add Losing at least a million Americans, millions upon millions of jobs due to his typically atrocious Repub economic and national security stewardship as well as an unlimited number of Trillions added to the deficit going forward until his one and only economic legislation is repealed or dramatically altered. But I'm not sure the usual virulent Repub / Trumpster would even see those as "losses" of any real significance compared to those Losses in Power / Elections.

But the much bigger Losing problem for your and Marquis' Party is that Trump is not the Loser that in some curious way changed the Repub Party into the Losing Party it has become lately. He did not change the Repub Party at all. He only REVEALED the Repub Party.

It could never have found a better representative of everything it values and has stood for over at least the past 100 years than Donald J. Trump. He knew it was a match made in Loser heaven. That's why he joined that Party. He knew it was calling on someone like him.

If Trump was justifiably dragged off in handcuffs and leg irons to the penetentiary to serve the rest of his life in solitary confinement for his crimes against America, the Repub Party would simply replace him with the Trumpiest clone on the scene.

Their voters would demand nothing less.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852559]Miller was dumped by Carter after serving 18 months. One of the shortest Fed Chairman tenures ever. He was not willing to do what was difficult but necessary in order to tame Nixon / Ford's hyper-inflation. Then Carter interviewed, vetted and appointed Volcker because he was prepared to do what was difficult but necessary to tame it. Hyper-inflation topped out and began its steady month-over-month decline a mere 3-4 months after Volcker began raising Fed Funds rates at the far more appropraite levels and speed, nearly a full year before Reagan took office.

You seem to think "the price of eggs" in this regard = "The Economy". I have no problem associating higher prices for eggs, gas, housing, whatever with a President's influence on the economy. As long as you don't ONLY focus on the price of eggs and so on.

For example, in the case of Nixon / Ford, there was hyper-inflation with no noticeable increase in jobs or wages.

However, while Carter's brilliant Fed Chairman appointment, Paul Volcker, was quickly bringing down the rate of inflation long before Teflon Ronnie was told by Nancy he was even running for President, Carter's job creation record was among the greatest of all time.

More Americans could afford to buy more eggs and shovel them down their throats at the end of 1980 after that jobs creation record than they could by the end of 1984 after Reagan's Great Repub Recession and his whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates.

Same with Biden's economic srewardship vs Trump's. Aside from Trump's less than average economic results compared to the previous 10-11 presidents with his $1. 5 Trillion net addition to the deficit every 10 years with nothing else to show for it legislation already busy creating fewer jobs with it than without it even before 2020.

By the time his typically atrocious Repub economic and national security stewardship created Trump's Pandemic in 2020 there was no doubt buying and eating eggs was going to be a hell of a lot more difficult for a hell of a lot more Americans, the millions upon millions whose jobs were wiped out by his typically atrocious Repub stewardship.

Was the price of eggs higher in late 2021 and still today than it was in January 2021? Damn good reason it CAN be while more Americans have jobs with better wages to be spent at open supermarkets with shelves stocked with plenty of eggs now.

You want cheaper eggs and cheaper gas in the system? Repubs always have their favorite solution for that goal at the ready; plunge America into another of their patented Great Repub Depressions or Great Repub Recessions, wipe out a few million jobs and, bingo, there's your cheap eggs, gas and houses for ya'!

How about the millions of diabetics in America who will no longer need to pay $1000 per month for insulin and can now pick it up for $35 pocket change thanks to Biden's legislation and stewardship? Think they have an easier time buying eggs and gas today than they did in January 2021? LOL. Aside from whatever medical issues may ensue for diabetics eating eggs. I really don't know. But you get the point.

Take into consideration many economic conditions and overall results and I have no problem "blaming" the higher price of eggs or anything else at just about any time on the economic stewardship and legislation results of a president.[/QUOTE]My comments about Volcker, Miller and Powell were tongue in cheek. In fact I believe the Volcker led Fed did a good job. It slayed the inflation beast. You however are stone cold serious, praising Volcker for a job well done, when the Fed caused unemployment to increase with tight monetary policy. While at the same time putting the blame for said unemployment on Reagan, your reasoning being that Volcker was appointed by a Democrat. That makes about as much sense as blaming the 2020 recession on Trump because he caused the pandemic.

I agree with you about the insulin. Thats just a drop in the bucket though. Health care costs in the USA are out of control.

"Please don't work too hard to help Marquis come to the realization that his and your Party's support for his lord and savior has contributed mightily to it losing, losing, losing and losing since his infamous ride down that escalator.

Losing the vote in 2016, but snatched from total defeat only by the Repub-rigged EC system.

Losing the House.

Losing the Senate.

Rightfully losing the WH vote and the Repub-rigged EC system in 2020.

Lose another Senate seat in 2020.

Losing practically every special election along the way.

Losing even the middling average number of House seats in their WH opposition's first midterm, squeaking out a pathetic Pink Tinkle instead and perjaps only that much because several districts were redrawn by Repub governors whose creative Repub magic marker redrawing penmanship has since been spanked by federal judges.

I would add Losing at least a million Americans, millions upon millions of jobs due to his typically atrocious Repub economic and national security stewardship as well as an unlimited number of Trillions added to the deficit going forward until his one and only economic legislation is repealed or dramatically altered. But I'm not sure the usual virulent Repub / Trumpster would even see those as "losses" of any real significance compared to those Losses in Power / Elections.

But the much bigger Losing problem for your and Marquis' Party is that Trump is not the Loser that in some curious way changed the Repub Party into the Losing Party it has become lately. He did not change the Repub Party at all. He only REVEALED the Repub Party.

It could never have found a better representative of everything it values and has stood for over at least the past 100 years than Donald J. Trump. He knew it was a match made in Loser heaven. That's why he joined that Party. He knew it was calling on someone like him.

If Trump was justifiably dragged off in handcuffs and leg irons to the penetentiary to serve the rest of his life in solitary confinement for his crimes against America, the Repub Party would simply replace him with the Trumpiest clone on the scene.

Their voters would demand nothing less. ".

So much nonsense even for you Bangkok Bob.

Lets just address.

Repub-rigged EC system? WTF?

So the US Constitution was rigged by the GOP? LMAO.

Post script someone that points out others spelling errors no matter how minor.

Should not make so many errors?

Let me guess you went to public schools in California LMAO.

"My comments about Volcker, Miller and Powell were tongue in cheek. In fact I believe the Volcker led Fed did a good job. It slayed the inflation beast. You however are stone cold serious, praising Volcker for a job well done, when the Fed caused unemployment to increase with tight monetary policy. While at the same time putting the blame for said unemployment on Reagan, your reasoning being that Volcker was appointed by a Democrat. That makes about as much sense as blaming the 2020 recession on Trump because he caused the pandemic.

I agree with you about the insulin. Thats just a drop in the bucket though. Health care costs in the USA are out of control. ".

The fat lady is wailing Ave Maria!

White House MEMO.

Biden's Tough Week: The President Faces Personal and Political Setbacks.

In the past seven days, President Biden was targeted for impeachment and his son was indicted. That was just the start.

Share full article.

President Biden grasping his hands near his face.

President Biden faced multiple political challenges this week. Credit. Anna Rose Layden for The New York Times.

Peter Baker.

By Peter Baker.

Peter Baker has covered the past five presidents and reported from Washington.

Sept. 15,2023.

Updated 5:53 pm ET.

It says something about the way things have been going for President Biden lately that being targeted for impeachment was not the worst news of a tough week.

To be sure, it was not a highlight. But over the course of the past seven days, Mr. Biden was besieged on multiple fronts, both personal and political, challenging his capacity, threatening his family and jeopardizing his political position.

He was panned by critics for his performance at an overseas news conference. One of his favorite columnists urged him not to run again, sparking more hand wringing in his party. A top ally implicitly questioned his choice of running mate. The auto industry fell into a paralyzing strike that could undermine the economy. His son was indicted on three felony charges. And oh yes, House Republicans opened an impeachment inquiry aimed at charging him with high crimes and misdemeanors.

Politics in Washington being what it is today, Mr. Biden and his team exhibited no particular concern over the course of events. After a rocky campaign and two and a half turbulent years in office, they have become accustomed to the gyrations of the modern presidency. Facing a disagreeable short view, they prefer to take the long view, comforting themselves, and arguing to outsiders, that it will work out all right in the end because it has worked out all right before.

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And Mr. Biden has been blessed by helpful enemies, who now appear poised to provoke an unpopular government shutdown at the same time they pursue an impeachment inquiry that even some Republican lawmakers say is not based on evidence of an impeachable offense. If there is anything that could rally disaffected Democrats and independents, the president's strategists believe, it is Republican overreach.

Image.

Mr. Biden at a lectern in front of a display showing the Vietnam flag.

Conservatives mocked Mr. Biden for his speech in Hanoi, Vietnam. Credit. Kenny Holston / The New York Times.

"President Biden was underestimated two years ago and then he went on to pass historic legislation that has led the USA To have the strongest recovery of any developed economy in the world," Ben LaBolt, the White House communications director, said on Friday. "We don't get distracted by Washington parlor games that most Americans are entirely uninterested in. ".

Avoiding distraction is hardly easy. Mr. Biden was told of the indictment against his son Hunter Biden on Thursday just before leaving the White House to give a speech in Maryland assailing Republican budget plans, forcing him to put the consequences out of his mind long enough to deliver the talk and work the rope lines.

He said nothing about the indictment and little about the rest of the setbacks of the week in public, although there was a moment at an evening campaign fund-raising reception when he lamented the changing culture of politics since he was first elected to the Senate in 1972.

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"Did you ever think you would have to worry about going through protests where you see people standing with their little kids giving you the middle finger and have banners saying, 'F the Democrat' he asked Democratic donors at a private home in McLean, Va. "It's becoming debased, our public disgust," he added. "We just have to change it. ".

The week started in Hanoi, Vietnam, where he gave a news conference on Sunday evening that conservatives quickly mocked because of a few rambling moments and an odd reference to John Wayne. Mr. Biden had barely landed back home and gotten a few hours sleep before Speaker Kevin McCarthy opened an impeachment inquiry accusing the president of corruption without evidence that he had either profited from his son's business dealings or misused his power to help.

The next day, the president picked up The Washington Post to find a column by David Ignatius, who has enjoyed considerable access to the Biden White House, arguing that despite what he considered a laudable record, the 80-year-old president should not run for another term next year. The column caused much buzzing in Washington because Mr. Ignatius has broad respect in the nation's capital as a reasoned voice often supportive of the president and represents the establishment whose approval Mr. Biden has long craved.

Mr. Ignatius's plea for the president to reconsider his decision to seek a second term resonated among many Democrats deeply anxious about his prospects but reluctant to say so out loud for fear of undermining him. Mr. Ignatius addressed the matter on "Morning Joe," the MSNBC show that Mr. Biden is known to watch, with much discussion of whether the president was too old for another term, as polls show many voters believe.

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Just hours later, Senator Mitt Romney, one of the most prominent Republican critics of former President Donald J. Trump, announced that he would retire in favor of "a new generation of leaders" and urged Mr. Biden to do the same. Charlie Cook, a well-regarded nonpartisan election analyst, then weighed in with a column making the case for the president stepping aside.

Image.

A crowd sits under a blue banner reading "Bidenomics, Largo, Maryland. ".

A crowd listening to Mr. Biden speak on Thursday at Prince George's County Community College in Largo, Md. Credit. Anna Rose Layden for The New York Times.

Hunter Biden's indictment was followed on Friday by the first union strike against all three major American automakers, a seismic disruption of a key industry with uncertain effects on the economy. White House officials were watching the situation in Detroit with some trepidation, reasoning that a short strike would not make much difference in the long run but an extended walkout could unsettle the economy at a tenuous moment.

While many Democrats for months have privately hoped for what Mr. Ignatius publicly voiced, there is no indication that Mr. Biden is or would consider abandoning his re-election campaign. Advisers say privately that the idea never comes up and would be ludicrous. If anything, the importunings of the "chattering class," as they like to put it, would push Mr. Biden, who believes he is consistently underestimated, in the opposite direction.

"The Ignatius thing probably did break his heart, however that's the kind of thing that forces him and the campaign and his family into their comfort zone of being underdogs," said Michael LaRosa, a former spokesman for Jill Biden. "The way they view it is: You guys said he couldn't win last time, he couldn't win from the center, he couldn't beat Bernie, he couldn't bring back bipartisanship, he couldn't beat Trump, he couldn't win the midterms. That's how they see things. ".

There is no class of elder statesmen who might persuade Mr. Biden of the opposite, no one he would listen to, according to Democratic strategists. Mr. Biden is said to still resent former President Barack Obama for gently pressing him not to run in 2016, and his relationship with former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is complicated by conflicting ambitions.

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The only ones who might persuade Mr. Biden to change his mind would be his own family, particularly Jill Biden, who talked him out of running for president in 2004. But by all accounts, she and other family members strongly support another campaign, viewing any alternative as a capitulation to the doubters who never believed in the president and the enemies who in her view have weaponized their family against him.

For all the concern in the party — and interviews make clear it is deeper than White House officials are willing to acknowledge — there is also a sense of resignation among many Democrats that there are no obvious alternatives to Mr. Biden ready and able to beat Mr. Trump.

Image.

Jill Biden, left, and Mr. Biden walking down the steps of Air Force One.

Jill Biden talked Mr. Biden out of running for president in 2004. Credit. Tom Brenner for The New York Times.

Even former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has worked closely with Mr. Biden to pass his legislative agenda, seemed to call Vice President Kamala Harris into doubt in an interview this week. Asked on CNN twice if she were the best running mate for Mr. Biden, Ms. Pelosi did not directly say yes. "he thinks so," she said of the president, "and that's what matters. ".

Keeping Mr. Trump out of the Oval Office is such a paramount goal for Democrats that even skeptics of Mr. Biden within the party are increasingly coming to the conclusion that it is too late to think about an alternative and more important now to rally around him.

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Gov. Gavin Newsom of California, who was seen as a possible candidate if Mr. Biden did not run, recently told fellow Democrats it was "time for all of us to get on the train and buck up," as he put it in an interview.

Donna Brazile, a former Democratic Party chair, insisted that reports of hand wringing are overwrought. "No matter his age or accomplishment, Democrats must begin to focus on every branch of government, preserving our democracy, inspiring young people to run for office and vote — not to mention raise money and run as if we are 10 points behind," she said. "There's only one way to win: You have to believe in the candidates on the ballot. ".

So far, the polling has been unforgiving, undercutting Mr. Biden's argument that he is the safest choice to defeat Mr. Trump. Multiple surveys have shown him statistically tied with his predecessor, and his approval rating has remained mired around 40 percent despite improving economic conditions.

Mr. Biden's advisers dismiss such findings, noting that Ronald Reagan, Mr. Clinton and Mr. Obama all rebounded from low approval ratings to win re-election handily. Mr. Biden's campaign has already started airing ads in battleground states, and advisers argue that when the time comes for a choice that matters, voters will return to Mr. Biden rather than switch to an unpopular challenger who has been indicted four times, including for trying to subvert democracy.

In the meantime, they said, no one should worry about one week or another. The president survived plenty of tough weeks before pushing through landmark legislation and enacting other major policy goals. After a half-century in politics, they said, he has seen it all and he sets the tone for his White House.

"When I read these stories on Biden's age or polling status, it reminds me of what I used to tell the staff," said Ms. Brazile. "Keep your head down, make your phone calls and just do the work. ".

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852835]....In the past seven days, President Biden was targeted for impeachment and his son was indicted. That was just the start....

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/us/politics/bidens-bad-week.html#[/url][/QUOTE]

Hey Tooms, you need to subscribe to the New York Times like the Marquis and I do, so you can read all the dirt on Biden.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852744]My comments about Volcker, Miller and Powell were tongue in cheek. In fact I believe the Volcker led Fed did a good job. It slayed the inflation beast. You however are stone cold serious, praising Volcker for a job well done, when the Fed caused unemployment to increase with tight monetary policy. While at the same time putting the blame for said unemployment on Reagan, your reasoning being that Volcker was appointed by a Democrat. That makes about as much sense as blaming the 2020 recession on Trump because he caused the pandemic.

I agree with you about the insulin. Thats just a drop in the bucket though. Health care costs in the USA are out of control.[/QUOTE]Reagan's whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates began a year after he was elected, which itself happened a year after Carter's Fed Chairman Volcker began to enact the Fed Funds rate increases that also began to steadily reduce the rate of inflation about 3 months later. And Volcker reduced the Fed Funds rates right slong with the steady, almost monthly decline in inflation.

They did not occur in the midst of steady Fed Funds rate increases or a steady increase in the rate of inflation.

Reagan had already inherited a declining Unemployment Rate by January 1981, down from a one month spike to 7. 8% to around 7. 2% that continued well into late 1981, all while the rate of inflation and the Fed Funds rate trajectories were trending downward, not upward.

LOL. I see Trump is on NBC bragging about when he begged his Fed Chairman appointee to lower interest rates even before he crashed worldwide economies in 2020 with Trump's Pandemic because, "we had the Greatest Economy ever"!

Which, of course, is exactly what "the Greatest Economy ever" desperately needs. Lolol.

And you think numbskulls like the lord and savior perfect Repub Leader like him could even come within 1000 miles of an effective economic stimulus legislation much less propose, sign and pass one?

Oh, BTW, his begging for lower interest rates had everything to do with his colossal outstanding debt on his colossally failing golf resorts and nothing to do with "the USA economy. " So we add blatantly obvious con man to his numbskull characteristic. Yes, the perfect Repub Party lord and savior.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852862]Hey Tooms, you need to subscribe to the New York Times like the Marquis and I do, so you can read all the dirt on Biden.[/QUOTE]I would no more contribute money to typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media than to outright direct Repub Media like Fux News, Newsmax and Breitbart. LOL.

Maybe we can get Marquis to copy and paste this NYT article that somehow got past its pro-Repub panel of editors. Or, like most MSM, they are simply imparting warnings and pointers to help their Repub darlings improve their game. I suppose you can copy and paste it too.

[B]Trump's Electoral College Edge Seems To Be Fading[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/upshot/electoral-college-trump-2024.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852810]"Please don't work too hard to help Marquis come to the realization that his and your Party's support for his lord and savior has contributed mightily to it losing, losing, losing and losing since his infamous ride down that escalator.

Losing the vote in 2016, but snatched from total defeat only by the Repub-rigged EC system.

Losing the House.

Losing the Senate.

Rightfully losing the WH vote and the Repub-rigged EC system in 2020.

Lose another Senate seat in 2020.

Losing practically every special election along the way.

Losing even the middling average number of House seats in their WH opposition's first midterm, squeaking out a pathetic Pink Tinkle instead and perjaps only that much because several districts were redrawn by Repub governors whose creative Repub magic marker redrawing penmanship has since been spanked by federal judges.

I would add Losing at least a million Americans, millions upon millions of jobs due to his typically atrocious Repub economic and national security stewardship as well as an unlimited number of Trillions added to the deficit going forward until his one and only economic legislation is repealed or dramatically altered. But I'm not sure the usual virulent Repub / Trumpster would even see those as "losses" of any real significance compared to those Losses in Power / Elections.

But the much bigger Losing problem for your and Marquis' Party is that Trump is not the Loser that in some curious way changed the Repub Party into the Losing Party it has become lately. He did not change the Repub Party at all. He only REVEALED the Repub Party.

It could never have found a better representative of everything it values and has stood for over at least the past 100 years than Donald J. Trump. He knew it was a match made in Loser heaven. That's why he joined that Party. He knew it was calling on someone like him.

If Trump was justifiably dragged off in handcuffs and leg irons to the penetentiary to serve the rest of his life in solitary confinement for his crimes against America, the Repub Party would simply replace him with the Trumpiest clone on the scene.

Their voters would demand nothing less. ".

So much nonsense even for you Bangkok Bob.

Lets just address.

Repub-rigged EC system? WTF?

So the US Constitution was rigged by the GOP? LMAO.

Post script someone that points out others spelling errors no matter how minor.

Should not make so many errors?

Let me guess you went to public schools in California LMAO.[/QUOTE]When do I point out so many spelling errors?

Uh. The two worst presidents of all time, both Repubs, both incalculable scourges on America and Americans, just within the past 23 years were installed in the White House despite losing the vote by Millions solely because there is such a thing as the Electoral College system. Well, that and that the majority in the Supreme Court was Repub too one of those times.

Clearly, it is a rigged system that favors Repubs. Rigged FOR them today, not by them in the beginning. Although in the beginning it was rigged to favor land masses and land owners over human beings.

So, in that sense, it was preordained to be rigged FOR Repub Red States that even today have more tumble weeds, rattle snakes and outhouses than human beings, tax payers and skyscrapers. Compared to a huge, popular and economically critical state like California, both Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc etc combined should have nothing rigged in their favor to in any way inch them toward as much national election influence as California.

However, that is what the EC system does for their benefit in terms of presidential election outcomes. Certainly not for their benefit or the benefit of the country at large in terms of the economy, national security, health, wellbeing, democracy or American values.

In a 4 minute video, she does a brilliant job of underscoring the damaging effects of typical pro-Repub Bothsiderism in Mainstream Media:

[B]Dear Media, Do Your Job!
Remember when the media used to actually report the news?[/B]

[URL]https://crooksandliars.com/2023/09/dear-media-do-your-job[/URL]

[QUOTE]One of my favorite quotes regarding journalism is from Sally Claire who said, "If someone says it's raining and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fucking window and find out which is true."[/QUOTE]

[i]Did the orange devil spawn, really get "street creed" with his new found mug shot? [/i]

According to Mitt and other Repub congressmen and women who would have voted to impeach the tyrannical insurrectionist 4x indicted ex-president, [b] feared for their very lives, from the QAnon/MAGA right-wing lunatic fringe.[/b]

The orange devil, as most of us already knew, was [i]thuggin', mobbin'[/i] and [i]threatin'[/i] and was acting like a mob boss from the jump. These Repub congresspersons and "Never Trumpers" say, if it were not for the death threats on their own lives, their children and their families lives, they'd have impeached the devil.

So getting [b]"primaried" by the vindictive little orange devil[/b], I imagine, was the least of Mitt's problems, as the dude was doling and shelling out a whooping [b]$5K a day[/b], to protect himself and his family, with private security, since the J6 riot.

[b]99 Problems[/b], but [b]Mitt getting "primaried"[/b] ain't one...as Sen. Romney, reveals all, as he announces and prepares for retirement.

Repubs...thuggin' R us?

[QUOTE=Spidy;2852942][i]Did the orange devil spawn, really get "street creed" with his new found mug shot? [/i]

According to Mitt and other Repub congressmen and women who would have voted to impeach the tyrannical insurrectionist 4x indicted ex-president, [b] feared for their very lives, from the QAnon/MAGA right-wing lunatic fringe.[/b]

The orange devil, as most of us already knew, was [i]thuggin', mobbin'[/i] and [i]threatin'[/i] and was acting like a mob boss from the jump. These Repub congresspersons and "Never Trumpers" say, if it were not for the death threats on their own lives, their children and their families lives, they'd have impeached the devil.

So getting [b]"primaried" by the vindictive little orange devil[/b], I imagine, was the least of Mitt's problems, as the dude was doling and shelling out a whooping [b]$5K a day[/b], to protect himself and his family, with private security, since the J6 riot.

[b]99 Problems[/b], but [b]Mitt getting "primaried"[/b] ain't one...as Sen. Romney, reveals all, as he announces and prepares for retirement.

Repubs...thuggin' R us?[/QUOTE]That's sad, that he had to spend 5,000 a day on security for his family.

It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasnt a government agent.

Epps actually may be the reason Fox fired Carlson. It didnt help them though. Epps has since sued Fox for fucking up his life.

Im not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. A very small minority of his more ardent supporters would take things too far.

"When do I point out so many spelling errors?

Uh. The two worst presidents of all time, both Repubs, both incalculable scourges on America and Americans, just within the past 23 years were installed in the White House despite losing the vote by Millions solely because there is such a thing as the Electoral College system. Well, that and that the majority in the Supreme Court was Repub too one of those times.

Clearly, it is a rigged system that favors Repubs. Rigged FOR them today, not by them in the beginning. Although in the beginning it was rigged to favor land masses and land owners over human beings.

So, in that sense, it was preordained to be rigged for Repub Red States that even today have more tumble weeds, rattle snakes and outhouses than human beings, tax payers and skyscrapers. Compared to a huge, popular and economically critical state like California, both Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc etc combined should have nothing rigged in their favor to in any way inch them toward as much national election influence as California.

However, that is what the EC system does for their benefit in terms of presidential election outcomes. Certainly not for their benefit or the benefit of the country at large in terms of the economy, national security, health, wellbeing, democracy or American values."

The 'rig' that means "to manipulate or control usually by deceptive or dishonest means" first appeared in an 18th century slang dictionary with the definition "game, diversion, ridicule. See 'fun'."

"That's sad, that he had to spend 5,000 a day on security for his family.

It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasn't a government agent.

Epps actually may be the reason Fox fired Carlson. It didn't help them though. Epps has since sued Fox for fucking up his life.

I'm not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. A very small minority of his more ardent supporters would take things too far."

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jan-6-rioter-convicted-sentenced-secret-103233093[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852922]
Clearly, it is a rigged system that favors Repubs. Rigged FOR them today, not by them in the beginning. Although in the beginning it was rigged to favor land masses and land owners over human beings.

So, in that sense, it was preordained to be rigged FOR Repub Red States that even today have more tumble weeds, rattle snakes and outhouses than human beings, tax payers and skyscrapers. Compared to a huge, popular and economically critical state like California, both Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc etc combined should have nothing rigged in their favor to in any way inch them toward as much national election influence as California.

However, that is what the EC system does for their benefit in terms of presidential election outcomes. Certainly not for their benefit or the benefit of the country at large in terms of the economy, national security, health, wellbeing, democracy or American values.[/QUOTE]Baloney. You just posted a link purporting to show that neither party has an unfair edge in the electoral college. The Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc. are assigned electoral votes in proportion to their populations, just like California. Trump's margin in Wyoming and North Dakota was higher than Biden's in California, and Trump's margin in South Dakota was only slightly smaller.

Trump's EC win in 2016 was a fluke. After Rutherford B. Hayes, who was selected president in a grand bargain so that Union troops would leave the south, there's been no election where a candidate lost the popular vote by more than 1% and won the electoral vote, up until 2016. And if I understand your link, this is no longer likely to happen.

This is the United STATES of America. That's probably the reason the founders came up with the electoral college. And it's a good thing that we are the United STATES. If Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Elizabeth Warren et al fully imposed their agendas on states like Wyoming and North Dakota, there just might be open rebellion.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852889]I would no more contribute money to typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media than to outright direct Repub Media like Fux News, Newsmax and Breitbart. LOL.

Maybe we can get Marquis to copy and paste this NYT article that somehow got past its pro-Repub panel of editors. Or, like most MSM, they are simply imparting warnings and pointers to help their Repub darlings improve their game. I suppose you can copy and paste it too.

[B]Trump's Electoral College Edge Seems To Be Fading[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/upshot/electoral-college-trump-2024.html[/URL][/QUOTE]I guess Crooks and Liars must unqualifiedly and consistently support the Progressive line while the New York Times doesn't always do that. Well good for the NYT. While their news articles are somewhat biased towards your side, at least more so than the WSJ, at least they occasionally try to be objective.

"That's sad, that he had to spend 5,000 a day on security for his family.

It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasn't a government agent.

Epps actually may be the reason Fox fired Carlson. It didn't help them though. Epps has since sued Fox for fucking up his life.

I'm not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. A very small minority of his more ardent supporters would take things too far. ".

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jan-6-rioter-convicted-sentenced-secret-103233093[/URL]".

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-the-12-million-beach-mansion-mitt-romney-is-tearing-down-2011-8[/URL]

$5000 shouldn't be nearly enough!!

I guess Crooks and Liars must unqualifiedly and consistently support the Progressive line while the New York Times doesn't always do that. Well good for the NYT. While their news articles are somewhat biased towards your side, at least more so than the WSJ, at least they occasionally try to be objective. ".

For their mega agenda.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/15/ramaswamy-predicts-biden-will-be-a-sacrificial-lamb-says-deep-state-working-to-get-him-out-of-the-way/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852967]

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jan-6-rioter-convicted-sentenced-secret-103233093[/URL][/QUOTE]What do you think is up with that Marquis?

On a separate note, I guess we're going to have to start digging up links from Crooks and Liars to support our posts. Tooms doesn't trust the New York Times, it's too right wing.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852886]Reagan's whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates began a year after he was elected, which itself happened a year after Carter's Fed Chairman Volcker began to enact the Fed Funds rate increases that also began to steadily reduce the rate of inflation about 3 months later. And Volcker reduced the Fed Funds rates right slong with the steady, almost monthly decline in inflation.

They did not occur in the midst of steady Fed Funds rate increases or a steady increase in the rate of inflation.

Reagan had already inherited a declining Unemployment Rate by January 1981, down from a one month spike to 7. 8% to around 7. 2% that continued well into late 1981, all while the rate of inflation and the Fed Funds rate trajectories were trending downward, not upward.

LOL. I see Trump is on NBC bragging about when he begged his Fed Chairman appointee to lower interest rates even before he crashed worldwide economies in 2020 with Trump's Pandemic because, "we had the Greatest Economy ever"!

Which, of course, is exactly what "the Greatest Economy ever" desperately needs. Lolol.

And you think numbskulls like the lord and savior perfect Repub Leader like him could even come within 1000 miles of an effective economic stimulus legislation much less propose, sign and pass one?

Oh, BTW, his begging for lower interest rates had everything to do with his colossal outstanding debt on his colossally failing golf resorts and nothing to do with "the USA economy. " So we add blatantly obvious con man to his numbskull characteristic. Yes, the perfect Repub Party lord and savior.[/QUOTE]Well, assigning blame to Reagan for the recession and unemployment in the first half of the 1980's while absolving the Fed doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Pelosi and Trump threw everything but the kitchen sink at the 2020 recession. The only voices of sanity, which came at the end of 2020, were from Senate Republicans. I don't really understand why you're complaining about the stimulus and Trump's push for lower interest rates. That's what Progressives favor, right? Modern Monetary Theory? Loose monetary policy? Don't worry about the national debt or low interest rates because you can just jack up taxes to control inflation? Well that doesn't really work, especially when you don't have the stomach to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. You just end up like Greece or Argentina.

What do you think is up with that Marquis?

On a separate not, I guess we're going to have to start digging up links from Crooks and Liars to support our posts.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/nyregion/migrant-protests-nyc.html[/URL]

I'm not sure, you're an intelligent and sane young man, what's your thinking?

Just a guess, maybe a high ranking member of the military? FBI? CIA?

Most likely a high ranking member of the Capitol Police that was letting all the protesters in and guiding them around??

He does what the lame left always tries, they are constantly trying to manipulate the overton window and pull it left.

Just ignore it, carry on and read just the Daily Stormer, daily!!

"I guess Crooks and Liars must unqualifiedly and consistently support the Progressive line while the New York Times doesn't always do that. Well good for the NYT. While their news articles are somewhat biased towards your side, at least more so than the WSJ, at least they occasionally try to be objective. ".

The nyt and objectivity in the same sentence are mutually exclusive.

[URL]https://mises.org/wire/censorship-industrial-complex-exposes-kleptocracys-true-intentions[/URL]

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/the-guardian-says-democracy-fails-if-people-have-free-access-to-information/[/URL]

"I guess Crooks and Liars must unqualifiedly and consistently support the Progressive line while the New York Times doesn't always do that. Well good for the NYT. While their news articles are somewhat biased towards your side, at least more so than the WSJ, at least they occasionally try to be objective. ".

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/denver-homeless-startup-renting-tents-for-prostitution-selling-alcohol/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2852955]That's sad, that he had to spend 5,000 a day on security for his family.

It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's ... [/QUOTE]
Saw that 60 Minutes episode and I only felt sorry for this wife. Definitely not what the old gal signed up for. But as marriage vows go and everything, [i]"...to love and to cherish...till death us do part"[/i] ...etc. Poor Gal!

If there ever was a case where a more apropos saying of, [b] "He that lies/sleeps with dogs, riseth with fleas"[/b], I'd have to say, Ray Epp's case is a classic example. Good luck to him and his FOXY News lawsuit.

We shall see if the same fate (or should I say "fleas") awaits, the infamous [i]"dirty dozen-and-a-half other domesticated poodle dogs"[/i], awaiting trial in Fulton County, GA.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2852955]Im not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. [b]A very small minority[/b] of his more ardent supporters would take things too far. [/QUOTE]Oh really! ...To quote another apropos saying, "The fish rots from the head".

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853029]Baloney. You just posted a link purporting to show that neither party has an unfair edge in the electoral college. The Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc. are assigned electoral votes in proportion to their populations, just like California. Trump's margin in Wyoming and North Dakota was higher than Biden's in California, and Trump's margin in South Dakota was only slightly smaller.

Trump's EC win in 2016 was a fluke. After Rutherford B. Hayes, who was selected president in a grand bargain so that Union troops would leave the south, there's been no election where a candidate lost the popular vote by more than 1% and won the electoral vote, up until 2016. And if I understand your link, this is no longer likely to happen.

This is the United STATES of America. That's probably the reason the founders came up with the electoral college. And it's a good thing that we are the United STATES. If Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Elizabeth Warren et al fully imposed their agendas on states like Wyoming and North Dakota, there just might be open rebellion.[/QUOTE]Double baloney.

If the EC system was fairly tagged to population the EC system would be utterly pointless to the side that benefits from it being rigged, they would be fine with going with whoever got the most votes and the two worst presidents of all time, both Repubs, would not have been awarded the presidency despite getting Millions fewer votes than the Dem.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2852927][b]Excellent video.[/b]

In a 4 minute video, she does a brilliant job of underscoring the damaging effects of typical pro-Repub Bothsiderism in Mainstream Media:

[b]Dear Media, Do Your Job!
Remember when the media used to actually report the news?[/b]

[URL]https://crooksandliars.com/2023/09/dear-media-do-your-job[/URL][/QUOTE]Politics Girl, just nails it! Precise, succinct, truthful and pulls no punches getting to the point. One of the best videos I've seen, on false equivalencies and bothsiderism in the fourth estate.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853087]Well, assigning blame to Reagan for the recession and unemployment in the first half of the 1980's while absolving the Fed doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Pelosi and Trump threw everything but the kitchen sink at the 2020 recession. The only voices of sanity, which came at the end of 2020, were from Senate Republicans. I don't really understand why you're complaining about the stimulus and Trump's push for lower interest rates. That's what Progressives favor, right? Modern Monetary Theory? Loose monetary policy? Don't worry about the national debt or low interest rates because you can just jack up taxes to control inflation? Well that doesn't really work, especially when you don't have the stomach to raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. You just end up like Greece or Argentina.[/QUOTE]Volcker's raising of Fed Funds rates to tame inflation did produce a recession in the early 80's. It happened under Carter in the first half of 1980 and was over by the 4th Quarter of 1980. Definitely over by the 1st Quarter of 1981 as Reagan was taking the Oath of Office. By then, Volcker's method of raising the Fed Funds rate had done its job and he began stablizing and lowering them. The business world, hiring entities and job creators should have been delighted by the news of declining inflation and lowering Fed Funds rates on an almost monthly or quarter basis for the next 2-3 years after that.

But obviously they weren't. Thanks, Ronnie and his favorite idiotic Repub Supply-Side / Trickle-Down nonsence fast tracked into economy.

If high and rising rates of inflation and raising Fed Funds rates cause Great Recessions, destroyed jobs, crippled jobs creation and skyrocketed the Unrmployment Rate into multiple months of double digits, why didn't that happen all through Carter's presidency?

Why hasn't it done that under Biden?

Carter had one of the greatest jobs creation results on record, saw only a one month spike of the Unemployment Rate to 7. 8% that immediately changed trajectory to month over month declines well before Reagan took office and that one recession purposely induced by Volcker's methods barely qualified as a recession in that there was a single quarter of demonstrably GDP Growth contraction followed by a contraction in the next quarter by less than a single 1 percent.

POTUS economic stewardship, recognizing what needs to be done to avert major disasters and doing it matters.

You have just devoted months to complaining that over stimulating the economy was one of the worst moves at the worst time in USA economic history.

Yet you don't recognize what the tell giveaway of total numbskullery is for a Repub numbskull to beg his Fed Chairman to inject MORE stimulus into "The Greatest Economy Ever thanks to me being The Greatest Jobs President God Ever Created" by lowering the Fed Funds rate in the midst of all that economic wonderfulness and historic, God-approved jobs creation?

Are you now arguing in favor of MORE stimulus injected into an economy that, according to numbskull Trump, hardly needs it as long as it is a Repub numbskull begging for it?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853086]What do you think is up with that Marquis?

On a separate note, I guess we're going to have to start digging up links from Crooks and Liars to support our posts. Tooms doesn't trust the New York Times, it's too right wing.[/QUOTE]I have probably posted more NYT links to support my contentions than Marquis has and no doubt more NYT links than Crooks and Liars links.

As pro-Repub as MSM is in general including the NYT there is no harm in linking to them in cases where they can't spin and ignore the fact that 1 + 1 = 2.

The Crooks and Liars link merely contained the video I wanted to share. It wasn't an opinion piece contracted and paid for by Crooks and Liars as NYT pieces are. It was easier for me to just copy and paste that link for it than search for it on YouTube.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853150]Politics Girl, just nails it! Precise, succinct, truthful and pulls no punches getting to the point. One of the best videos I've seen, on false equivalencies and bothsiderism in the fourth estate.[/QUOTE]Ridiculous. The woman apparently doesn't watch MSNBC or CNN or read the New York Times or Washington Post editorial pages. Trump won't win the 2024 election, so she's hyperventilating about nothing.

If Biden wants more press coverage he needs to generate news that will sell commercials. He could take lessons from Donald Trump. Go grab some women by the pussy. Or Will Ferrell's character in The Campaign -- fuck Melania Trump on video and run it in his campaign adds. And then there's Democrat Edwin Edward's favorite strategy of getting caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.

He's kind of been doing this with his son Hunter, but it would be so much more effective if Joe were the one spreading his seed, using crack cocaine, banging call girls, and talking to corrupt foreign businessmen who are giving money to his family about more than the weather. That's what the networks and newspapers want, they don't want to see his son having all the fun!

Duplicate Post

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2852955]Im not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. A very small minority of his more ardent supporters would take things too far.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853126]
Oh really! ...To quote another apropos saying, "The fish rots from the head".[/QUOTE]This is a common misconception of Democrats, that Republicans are all White Supremacists who shoot schoolchildren, assassinate politicians, and conduct insurrections in their spare time. I know many Republicans, and I promise you it's a very, very small % that do that, I'd estimate way, way under 1/100th of 1%.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2852965]"When do I point out so many spelling errors?

Uh. The two worst presidents of all time, both Repubs, both incalculable scourges on America and Americans, just within the past 23 years were installed in the White House despite losing the vote by Millions solely because there is such a thing as the Electoral College system. Well, that and that the majority in the Supreme Court was Repub too one of those times.

Clearly, it is a rigged system that favors Repubs. Rigged FOR them today, not by them in the beginning. Although in the beginning it was rigged to favor land masses and land owners over human beings.

So, in that sense, it was preordained to be rigged for Repub Red States that even today have more tumble weeds, rattle snakes and outhouses than human beings, tax payers and skyscrapers. Compared to a huge, popular and economically critical state like California, both Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc etc combined should have nothing rigged in their favor to in any way inch them toward as much national election influence as California.

However, that is what the EC system does for their benefit in terms of presidential election outcomes. Certainly not for their benefit or the benefit of the country at large in terms of the economy, national security, health, wellbeing, democracy or American values."

The 'rig' that means "to manipulate or control usually by deceptive or dishonest means" first appeared in an 18th century slang dictionary with the definition "game, diversion, ridicule. See 'fun'."[/QUOTE][B]So how is it rigged? For them today[/B]

Gee, let us count the ways.

The American electorate chose Al Gore over Repub GW Disaster by half a Million votes. Yet, thanks to the deceptive and dishonest Repub majority on the Supreme Court deceptively and dishonestly granting themselves a single exception to their Party's otherwise screetching about States' Rights when they intervened and stopped the vote count in Florida at about the level of a queue at a Starbucks favoring their boy whereupon, thanks to a deceptive and dishonest EC system favoring the MINORITY recipient of presidential election votes (read: The Repub Party today) and in defiance of democracy, GW Disaster was appointed so-called potus.

The American electorate chose Hillary Clinton over Repub Donald J. Disaster by 3 Million votes. Yet, thanks to an EC system that was invented to help the MINORITY vote recipients (read: The Repub Party today) win the election despite getting fewer votes. Donald J. Disaster was appointed so-called potus.

If a mere 43,000 votes had been shifted or deceptively and dishonestly "found" by the typically deceptive and dishonest Repub state reprentatives as their deceptive and dishonest Repub Party lord and savior leader and fellow Repubs had hoped, plotted, planned and extorted some of then to do, the American electorate STILL would have chosen Joe Biden by 7 Million votes yet Repub Donald J. Disaster would have been appointed so-called potus anyway.

There is no Dem Party advantage counterpart to this anti democratic deceptiion and dishonesty. Blue states are more popular to live and work in, therefore have the greatest populations. Consequently there is no way the Dem Party is going to squeak out an EC "victory" while also losing the vote by anywhere from half a million to 7 million.

"Tiny, this stuff is junk. This one was the best of the bunch. A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1. 8%) and 53 control participants (2. 1% Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIS are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

If the difference is not statically significant, then the intervention does not work. Period! This % reduction is mental masturbation, a gimmick to sell an intervention that drug companies love, and it is meaningless if it does not reach statically significant.

The authors are making a big deal about 11 less infections in the mask group, and they lost 1100+ people to follow up. Do you know what this means, "Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. " I sure as hell don't.

At best, that means they prevent one infection out of 300+. Is that what people think when they wear masks or do they think it protects them 100% of the time? When you say you feel confident, does that confidence mean a less than 1% chance of working?

If you are going to mandate something, it needs to work. Period! When you mandate something proven not to work, it is not medical. It is not scientific. It is purely political. When you wear a mask under the guise of preventing infection, all you are doing is virtue signaling and making yourself feel safer. You are not safer. You just feel that way. ".

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/religion-masking[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853029]Baloney. You just posted a link purporting to show that neither party has an unfair edge in the electoral college. The Dakotas, Wyoming, Kansas, etc. are [b]assigned electoral votes in proportion to their populations, just like California. [/b]Trump's margin in Wyoming and North Dakota was higher than Biden's in California, and Trump's margin in South Dakota was only slightly smaller.

Trump's EC win in 2016 was a fluke. After Rutherford B. Hayes, who was selected president in a grand bargain so that Union troops would leave the south, there's been no election where a candidate lost the popular vote by more than 1% and won the electoral vote, up until 2016. And if I understand your link, this is no longer likely to happen.

This is the United STATES of America. That's probably the reason the founders came up with the electoral college. And it's a good thing that we are the United STATES. If Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, Elizabeth Warren et al fully imposed their agendas on states like Wyoming and North Dakota, there just might be open rebellion.[/QUOTE]If the Electoral College votes were assigned in proportion to their population along with California then at least 16 states, almost all of them Repub Red states, would not have even 1 legitimate Electoral College vote. Yet each of them has at least 3, some have 4, 5 or more.

For 2024, California will have 54 EC votes. The population of California is approximately 40,000,000. The 16 states mentioned above have less than 1% of California's population.

54 x 1% = 0. 54.

That doesn't even qualify as 1 full Electoral College vote.

Many of those Repub Red states' populations should not even qualify for 1 Electoral College Vote re California's 54 if you counted all of their human, rattle snake, tumble weed and outhouse population combined.

Yet there they are sitting on 3, 4, 5 or more.

In my previous post about approximately 16 states, almost all of them Repub Red states, not even earning a proper proportion of Electotal College votes re California's 54 EC votes for 2024 based on population, I meant to illustrate that with this calculation and not the one that wound up in that post:

Based on California's population of approximately 40,000,000 and its 54 EC votes, any state with less than 5. 5% of California's population should not qualify for even 3 EC votes.

40,000,000 x 5. 5% = 2,200,000.

54 x 5. 5% = 2. 97.

The mostly Repub Red states I alluded to above have smaller populations than 2,200,000.

Yet there they sit with 3, 4, 5 or more EC votes. Yeah, ok, maybe if we combined their human, rattle snake, tumble weed and outhouse populations.

And we haven't touched on how the Winner-Take-All aspect of the EC system is also part of the pro-Repub rigged EC system.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853256]In my previous post about approximately 16 states, almost all of them Repub Red states, not even earning a proper proportion of Electotal College votes re California's 54 EC votes for 2024 based on population, I meant to illustrate that with this calculation and not the one that wound up in that post:

Based on California's population of approximately 40,000,000 and its 54 EC votes, any state with less than 5. 5% of California's population should not qualify for even 3 EC votes.

40,000,000 x 5. 5% = 2,200,000.

54 x 5. 5% = 2. 97.

The mostly Repub Red states I alluded to above have smaller populations than 2,200,000.

Yet there they sit with 3, 4, 5 or more EC votes. Yeah, ok, maybe if we combined their human, rattle snake, tumble weed and outhouse populations.

And we haven't touched on how the Winner-Take-All aspect of the EC system is also part of the pro-Repub rigged EC system.[/QUOTE]Well, you learn something new every day. A state's electoral votes actually equal the total number of senators and House members.

Each state receives a number of house districts proportional to its population. The average Congressional District has a population of 761,000. The three smallest are Wyoming, Vermont and the District of Columbia, with populations of 581381,647064 and 671803 respectively. Until 2021, Montana had the largest Congressional District, a single district of over 1 million.

So, any state with a low number of electoral votes is over-represented in the electoral college, because every low population state gets the benefit of receiving two electoral votes, equivalent to that state's number of Senators. Here's a complete list of states with three or four electoral votes:

Hawaii
Idaho
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Alaska
Delaware
District of Columbia
Montana
North Dakota
South Dakota
Vermont
Wyoming

By my count that's seven blue states (including the District of Columbia) and seven red states. Contrary to your belief, small states aren't mostly red states.

As to California losing out, yeah, it does a little bit. So do red Florida and red Texas, the second and third most populous states.

Contrary to what you're saying, Republicans didn't come up with that system. James Madison and our other founders did. They were not Republicans. Furthermore, you are not going to overturn the electoral system unless you also overturn our Constitutional Republic, as any amendment to the Constitution requires ratification by 2/3 rds of the states. And the smaller states won't approve a change in the EC system.

And again, what does it matter? There have only been three elections since Rutherford B. Hayes was elected where the winner of the popular vote didn't win the election. And in two of those the losing candidate won the popular vote by a c**t hair. Hillary Clinton / Donald Trump was a fluke. Yeah, I wish Hillary had won. We might not have gotten the corporate tax cut or the COVID vaccine in record time. And we certainly wouldn't have benefitted from deregulation. But I bet Republicans would control the presidency, House and Senate today if she'd been the winner in 2016. And considering we elected a Republican Senate and House in 2016, things might have turned out just fine under Hillary. They certainly did under Bill and a Republican Congress.

The controversy about the 2000 and 2016 elections is a way for Democratic politicians to engender sanctimony and moral outrage in their supporters. The rules are the rules, and you play by them. If you lose, you accept it, unlike Donald Trump, Stacey Abrams, and many Democrats in 2000 and 2016.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853184]Blue states are more popular to live and work in, therefore have the greatest populations. Consequently there is no way the Dem Party is going to squeak out an EC "victory" while also losing the vote by anywhere from half a million to 7 million.[/QUOTE]So why are people moving from blue states to red states?

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853186][URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/religion-masking[/URL][/QUOTE]That link just doesn't make sense.

Republicans should wear good quality masks when appropriate (like when you're sitting next to someone who's coughing), get vaccinated against infectious diseases, exercise, eat a healthy diet, and take advantage of preventative medicine. Everyone needs to be alive and healthy, to go to the polls and vote!

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853150]Politics Girl, just nails it! Precise, succinct, truthful and pulls no punches getting to the point. One of the best videos I've seen, on false equivalencies and bothsiderism in the fourth estate.[/QUOTE]LOL.

Biden White House spokesperson Ian Sams sent out a letter to news organizations Tuesday, giving instructions on how they should cover (or non-cover, as it were) the Republican impeachment inquiry announced that day by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

In one instance Sams was able to quote himself in a tweet less than 24 hours after the Washington Post obligingly used, in a headline, language from his letter about GOP efforts to "muddy waters. " The trick was made famous by Dick Cheney, who once fed a WMD story to reporters he himself then cited in a Meet The Press interview. Once, getting rolled like that was considered embarrassing, but this crew just nuzzles and begs for more. Already all summer, they've been helping blanket a quote assiduously kept out of headlines: "Five million to pay one Biden, and five million to another Biden. ".

It can't have been fun for Biden officials to see this public, especially given how neatly it lines up with son Hunter's infamous "unlike Pop I won't make you give me half your salary" quote. Next to IRS whistleblower testimony about Hunter Biden's shell companies, Devon Archer's testimony about Joe Biden's presence during his son's business calls, Joe dining with Burisma exec Vadym Pozharsky at Cafe Milano, and other matters, this is a non-ignorable story now, and the pucker factor chez Biden must be real.

Sams then linked to a series of press stories containing passages underscoring the "unverified claims" theme. Among others, he cited Axios (the FBI form "simply documents an interview with a source, and does not in itself indicate any suspicions of wrongdoing" NBC ("The bribery allegation. Wasn't substantiated") and CNN ("The FBI and prosecutors who previously reviewed the information couldn't corroborate the claims".

What did those stories have in common? They all contained quotes from Ian Sams! White House official sends instructions to reporters, citing media reports sourced to the same White House official. If this merry-go-round doesn't convince you the lines between media and politicians have been irrevocably blurred, go back and look. You'll find this same cycle of press figures packing bodies of articles with official denials, then augmenting their own text with the official's terminology: "refuted," "debunked," "no evidence of wrongdoing," etc. You can't tell who wrote the original line of defense. Despite this, Sams without irony referred to White House assertions being confirmed by "independent press" five times.

End of quote. So Biden's White House instructs the press how to report, and this crazy witch thinks the media is not doing it's job because it is not even more pro-Biden.

What about the Hunter Biden laptop story? You know the one where it was written by Hunter, "unlike Pop I won't make you give me half your salary". What happened with that? I must have missed the wall to wall coverage right before the 2020 election.

Let me state the glaringly obvious. The Bidens were putting some of the USA foreign aid money into their own pocket. Joe used Hunter to give him half of the millions that went to the Bidens. When Victor Shokin threatened those bribes, Joe Biden had him fired. When Donald Trump wanted this looked into, the Democrats tried to impeach him.

We have gone from the bullshit claim that Joe Biden was not involved and not influenced to being paid off for the perception of influence or for false influence.

But the real question is this, why the fuck would the Vice President of the USA have a foreign prosecutor fired? If you think it was for any reason outside of Joe Biden protecting the family bribes, you are out of your fucking mind.

So how is it rigged? For them today.

Gee, let us count the ways.

The American electorate chose Al Gore over Repub GW Disaster by half a Million votes. Yet, thanks to the deceptive and dishonest Repub majority on the Supreme Court deceptively and dishonestly granting themselves a single exception to their Party's otherwise screetching about States' Rights when they intervened and stopped the vote count in Florida at about the level of a queue at a Starbucks favoring their boy whereupon, thanks to a deceptive and dishonest EC system favoring the MINORITY recipient of presidential election votes (read: The Repub Party today) and in defiance of democracy, GW Disaster was appointed so-called potus.

The American electorate chose Hillary Clinton over Repub Donald J. Disaster by 3 Million votes. Yet, thanks to an EC system that was invented to help the MINORITY vote recipients (read: The Repub Party today) win the election despite getting fewer votes. Donald J. Disaster was appointed so-called potus.

If a mere 43,000 votes had been shifted or deceptively and dishonestly "found" by the typically deceptive and dishonest Repub state reprentatives as their deceptive and dishonest Repub Party lord and savior leader and fellow Repubs had hoped, plotted, planned and extorted some of then to do, the American electorate STILL would have chosen Joe Biden by 7 Million votes yet Repub Donald J. Disaster would have been appointed so-called potus anyway.

There is no Dem Party advantage counterpart to this anti democratic deceptiion and dishonesty. Blue states are more popular to live and work in, therefore have the greatest populations. Consequently there is no way the Dem Party is going to squeak out an EC "victory" while also losing the vote by anywhere from half a million to 7 million.

Take your MEDS bro.

So why are people moving from blue states to red states?

[URL]https://ktla.com/news/california/5-california-cities-ranked-among-the-10-least-educated-in-the-u-s/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/california-has-highest-poverty-level-in-the-us-census-bureau-2021-9[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853300]So why are people moving from blue states to red states?[/QUOTE]Because they can't cut it at the jobs and for the cost of housing in a state like California or New York.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853295]Well, you learn something new every day. A state's electoral votes actually equal the total number of senators and House members.

Each state receives a number of house districts proportional to its population. The average Congressional District has a population of 761,000. The three smallest are Wyoming, Vermont and the District of Columbia, with populations of 581381,647064 and 671803 respectively. Until 2021, Montana had the largest Congressional District, a single district of over 1 million.

So, any state with a low number of electoral votes is over-represented in the electoral college, because every low population state gets the benefit of receiving two electoral votes, equivalent to that state's number of Senators. Here's a complete list of states with three or four electoral votes:

Hawaii
Idaho
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Alaska
Delaware
District of Columbia
Montana
North Dakota
South Dakota
Vermont
Wyoming

By my count that's seven blue states (including the District of Columbia) and seven red states. Contrary to your belief, small states aren't mostly red states.

As to California losing out, yeah, it does a little bit. So do red Florida and red Texas, the second and third most populous states.

Contrary to what you're saying, Republicans didn't come up with that system. James Madison and our other founders did. They were not Republicans. Furthermore, you are not going to overturn the electoral system unless you also overturn our Constitutional Republic, as any amendment to the Constitution requires ratification by 2/3 rds of the states. And the smaller states won't approve a change in the EC system.

And again, what does it matter? There have only been three elections since Rutherford B. Hayes was elected where the winner of the popular vote didn't win the election. And in two of those the losing candidate won the popular vote by a c**t hair. Hillary Clinton / Donald Trump was a fluke. Yeah, I wish Hillary had won. We might not have gotten the corporate tax cut or the COVID vaccine in record time. And we certainly wouldn't have benefitted from deregulation. But I bet Republicans would control the presidency, House and Senate today if she'd been the winner in 2016. And considering we elected a Republican Senate and House in 2016, things might have turned out just fine under Hillary. They certainly did under Bill and a Republican Congress.

The controversy about the 2000 and 2016 elections is a way for Democratic politicians to engender sanctimony and moral outrage in their supporters. The rules are the rules, and you play by them. If you lose, you accept it, unlike Donald Trump, Stacey Abrams, and many Democrats in 2000 and 2016.[/QUOTE]I didn't say Repubs came up with it. It is simply rigged to favor less popular / lower population states, which turns out to be where Repubs can cut it.

Yes, it is based on congressional delegation, not population. And the minimum number is 3. That is why my replaced calculation was about arriving at the minimum number, 3.

I am sure you are not just learning that 2 of those minimum 3 are for the 2 Senate Seats that is the exact same number of Senators the 40,000,000 people of California get to represent them as the 580,000 people of Wyoming, the 733,000 people of Alaska, the 779,000 people of North Dakota, the 900,000 people of South Dakota, the 1,700,000 people of West Virginia, the 1,900,000 people of Idaho, the 2,900,000 people of Kansas, the 2,900,000 people of Mississippi, etc.

So now you see why Trump tried desperately to further rig the EC system that is already rigged to favor Repubs by manipulating the census in 2020:

[B]Trump officials interfered with the 2020 census beyond cutting it short, email shows[/B]

[URL]https://www.npr.org/2022/01/15/1073338121/2020-census-interference-trump[/URL]

[QUOTE]At the time, the administration was faced with the reality that if Trump lost the November election he could also lose a chance to change the census numbers used to redistribute political representation. The window of opportunity was closing for his administration to attempt to radically reshape the futures of the U.S. House of Representatives and the Electoral College.[/QUOTE]

"Because they can't cut it at the jobs and for the cost of housing in a state like California or New York. ".

A single 58 yo white male in SOCAL? Hmmmmm.

No gracias Senor.

"Yes, Mitt would get primaried by a vindictive Trump if he runs in 2024, and probably lose. In Utah, it won't make much difference, as the Republican, whoever he or she is, will triumph in November.

Trump did the same thing to Jeff Flake in Arizona. Flake, who would have won the general election, withdrew because he knew he couldn't get past the primary. If not for Trump and his influence over the primaries and general elections, Republicans would control the Senate and have a solid majority in the House. Georgia would be red instead of purple, and Arizona might just be red too. Donald Trump is the Democrat's Best Friend.

Respectfully Marquis, Trumpsters only represent about 35% of American voters. I don't think the Republican Party can win enough seats to control the House and Senate if it continues kicking people like Romney to the side. ".

He only ran for Orins seat because he just wanted to be able to vote to impeach Our lord and Savior.

If that's not vindictive? What did Trump do to him?

During the 1st sham impeachment trial wasnt he the only member of the senate to ever vote for impeachment for POTUS of his own party.

Thats what he joined the senate to do.

You're much more conservative than I, you should hate him more than I do, he is a RINO.

Former Gov of Mass, his Romneycare served as a model for Obamacare.

I am a Nationalist populist, I'm quite optimistic Trump will expand the partys appeal with non whites 2023-2029.

The quintessential big tent, stay tuned. ".

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/15/upshot/democrats-biden-hispanic-black-voters.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/05/upshot/biden-trump-black-hispanic-voters.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853351]I didn't say Repubs came up with it. It is simply rigged to favor less popular / lower population states, which turns out to be where Repubs can cut it.

Yes, it is based on congressional delegation, not population. And the minimum number is 3. That is why my replaced calculation was about arriving at the minimum number, 3.

I am sure you are not just learning that 2 of those minimum 3 are for the 2 Senate Seats that is the exact same number of Senators the 40,000,000 people of California get to represent them as the 580,000 people of Wyoming, the 733,000 people of Alaska, the 779,000 people of North Dakota, the 900,000 people of South Dakota, the 1,700,000 people of West Virginia, the 1,900,000 people of Idaho, the 2,900,000 people of Kansas, the 2,900,000 people of Mississippi, etc.

So now you see why Trump tried desperately to further rig the EC system that is already rigged to favor Repubs by manipulating the census in 2020:

[B]Trump officials interfered with the 2020 census beyond cutting it short, email shows[/B]

[URL]https://www.npr.org/2022/01/15/1073338121/2020-census-interference-trump[/URL][/QUOTE]

So am I supposed to list the population of red states Texas and Florida and question why they only get the same number of Senate seats as small blue states? OK, well, by damn, I'll do it!

Texas 30,029,572
Florida 22,244,823


Vermont 647,064
Delaware 1,018,396
Rhode Island 1,093,734
Maine 1,385,340
New Hampshire 1,395,231
Hawaii 1,440,196

Democrats are just as bad as Republicans when it comes to trying to game the system. You seem to have difficulty recognizing that, just as you have difficulty recognizing that there are red states with large populations and blue states with small populations.

Utah and the Mormons can recover their reputation that the dirtbag destroyed.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/17/exclusive-utah-senate-gop-candidate-trent-staggs-romney-retirement-utah-ready-america-first-candidate/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853440]So am I supposed to list the population of red states Texas and Florida and question why they only get the same number of Senate seats as small blue states? OK, well, by damn, I'll do it!

Texas 30,029,572
Florida 22,244,823


Vermont 647,064
Delaware 1,018,396
Rhode Island 1,093,734
Maine 1,385,340
New Hampshire 1,395,231
Hawaii 1,440,196

Democrats are just as bad as Republicans when it comes to trying to game the system. You seem to have difficulty recognizing that, just as you have difficulty recognizing that there are red states with large populations and blue states with small populations.[/QUOTE]In a 3-Card Monte scam, all three cards you see on the table are part of the scam. Only a rube thinks he has a legitmate 1 in 3 chance of pointing to the money card. Oh, better than that as long as the scammer is making it so easy to keep his eye on it, right? LOL.

You would lose a lot of $20 bills at the table.

California's 54 EC votes are every bit as much a part of the scam "illusion" that there is some numerical fairness about the EC system that was specifically designed to help the candidate with fewer votes than his opponent win anyway as all those Red states' 3, 4, 5, 6 or more EC votes.

Another part of the scam that defies numerical fairness or in any way supports or honors a majority vote by the American electorate or the concept of democracy is the Winner-Take-All element of it. Let's call that another part of the 3-Card Monte scam you might not have noticed yet:

Let's say California or Texas or Florida has 20,000,000 registered voters (set aside for now how difficult the deceitful and dishonest Repub governors of Texas and Florida might make it for likely Dem voters to cast a ballot). And let's further say that for whatever reason 10,000,001 of California's (or Texas or Florida, if likely Dem voters can find a working polling place machine or a drop box anywhere in their area) voters go stark raving lunatic in 2024 and vote for Trump or DeSantis and the rest vote for Biden.

What happens to those 9,999,999 Biden votes? They evaporate into thin air, right? Just like the money card in that 3-Card Monte scam that you could swear you saw land right where you pointed.

They do not roll over into Biden's votes anywhere else, not Texas, not Florida, not even Wyoming where the sum of them might still mean he could get Millions more votes in the country than Trump / DeSantis.

Since Reagan's former VP was defeated in 1992, the American electorate has only once chosen a Repub over a Dem to occupy the White House. And if the pro-Repub rigged EC system scam had not put that Repub in the WH the first time despite a majority of the electorate not wanting him there, he would not have been in position to deceitfully and dishonestly lie himself into a "wartime president" advantage in order to squeak out a win the second time around either.

An EC system that was specifically designed to thwart the majority will of the American electorate is always rigged to favor the candidate the country does not want. And "today", since 1992, that has overwhelmingly been the Repub candidate.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853385]"Because they can't cut it at the jobs and for the cost of housing in a state like California or New York. ".

A single 58 yo white male in SOCAL? Hmmmmm.

No gracias Senor.[/QUOTE]No, I didn't go anywhere to find a job or secure cheaper housing.

Thanks in large part to my family having the smarts to get the hell out of a Ruby Red state when I was 10 years old and move to California, I was blessed with the opportunity to live, work, earn and invest there to the happy outcome that I have not needed to be gainfully employed or spend one hour in a job or doing most anything else that does not please me since I was 58.

I could have comfortably remained where I was in the 2nd most popular / populace metropolitan area in the USA in the most popular / populace state in the USA.

I certainly could have taken my pick of any Red state to retire. If I was excited about sitting on the porch with Jethro and Aunt Bea counting tumble weeds blowing by, maybe spend Saturday nights watching them unload the trucks at Wal-Mart or kept busy fending off some of the deadliest and most dangerous weather conditions in the country. That is, if Jethro, Aunt Bea and I managed to defy being victims of their highest murder rates in the country.

Instead, I chose to enjoy the great fun, comfort, variety and pleasure of residing in the most popularly visited city on the Planet. And justifiably so.

Thanks again, USA, California, Franklin, JFK / LBJ, Jimmy, Bill, Barack and Joe.

Section 3.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

"So why are people moving from blue states to red states?

[URL]https://ktla.com/news/california/5-california-cities-ranked-among-the-10-least-educated-in-the-u-s/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/california-has-highest-poverty-level-in-the-us-census-bureau-2021-9[/URL]".

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/14/travel/palatial-hotels-in-rome.html[/URL]

Not just once, not just twice, but THREE TIMES, the Repub Party's far and away most beloved iconic leader, major frontrunner for the 2024 presidential nomination and representative of their core values and agenda, referenced Barack Obama as the candidate he defeated in a previous election and will face again in 2024.

He also declared that if we are not careful we will surely enter World War II any minute now:

[B]Donald Trump warns of threat of World War II, mixes up names of Joe Biden and Barack Obama in Washington speech.[/B]

[URL]https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/donald-trump-world-war-ii-joe-biden-age-2024-election/102866974[/URL]

Imagine how many early morning and primetime hours for weeks Fux News Channel would devote to playing an endless loop of Joe Biden saying just those two sentences below in rapid succession as Trump did in order to analyze how the poor POTUS is losing it. LOL:

[B]"I know this; I don't even know that.": Trump pressed on classified documents.[/B]

[URL]https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-i-know-this-i-don-t-even-know-that-trump-pressed-on-classified-documents-193025093997[/URL]

[B]Trump says he's pleased by Putin's praise: 'I like that he said that'.
Russian President Vladimir Putin recently said he was "happy" to hear Trump's promise to "resolve all burning issues within several days" including the war in Ukraine.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-pleased-putins-praise-ukraine-russia-meet-the-press-rcna105298[/URL]

[QUOTE]Trump readily claimed in the interview that if re-elected president, he would resolve the war within 24 hours, though he provided few details about how he would end a conflict that has dragged on for more than 18 months. The former president has asserted several times that he could quickly end the war.[/QUOTE]Oh, so Grab Her By The Covefe Trump will resolve and end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours, will he? Funny, by my calculation and owing to the fact that there was an extra day in February in Leap Year 2020, the United States of America was actively engaged in a ground war for every hour of every 24 hour day of Commander in Cheat Donald J. Trump's disastrous so-called presidency, all 1461 of those days, and he never resolved shit.

Then again, it is not out of the question to suspect Trump thought of himself more as president of Russia then as now rather than president of the USA and had more interest in its affairs rather than in resolving the horrific problems he was creating for America.

Cue the typically pro-Repub MSM Bothsiderism shrugging all this off as something old folks like Trump and Biden do all the time despite the fact that Joe Biden has never sounded that confused and blithering in the 50+ years he has been a public figure.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/09/18/opinion/human-population-global-growth.html[/URL]

The lefts solution to global warming.

No more reproduction.

OPINION.

The World's Population May Peak in Your Lifetime. What Happens Next?

Share full article.

129.

The global human population has been climbing for the past two centuries. But what is normal for all of us alive today — growing up while the world is growing rapidly — may be a blip in human history.

Children born today will very likely live to see the end of global population growth.

A baby born this year will be 60 in the 2080's, when demographers at the you. And. Expect the size of humanity to peak. The Wittgenstein Center for Demography and Global Human Capital in Vienna places the peak in the 2070's. The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington puts it in the 2060's. All of the predictions agree on one thing: We peak soon.

And then we shrink. Humanity will not reach a plateau and then stabilize. It will begin an unprecedented decline.

Because most demographers look ahead only to 2100, there is no consensus on exactly how quickly populations will fall after that. Over the past 100 years, the global population quadrupled, from two billion to eight billion. As long as life continues as it has — with people choosing smaller family sizes, as is now common in most of the world — then in the 22nd or 23rd century, our decline could be just as steep as our rise.

By Dean Spears.

Graphics by Sara Chodosh.

Dr. Spears is an economist at the University of Texas, Austin, and a research affiliate at its Population Research Center.

Most people now live in countries where two or fewer children are born for every two adults. If all people in the United States today lived through their reproductive years and had babies at an average pace, then it would add up to about 1. 66 births per woman. In Europe, that number is 1. 5; in East Asia, 1. 2; in Latin America, 1. 9. Any worldwide average of fewer than two children per two adults means our population shrinks and in the long run each new generation is smaller than the one before. If the world's fertility rate were the same as in the United States today, then the global population would fall from a peak of around 10 billion to less than two billion about 300 years later, over perhaps 10 generations. And if family sizes remained small, we would continue declining.

What would happen as a consequence? Over the past 200 years, humanity's population growth has gone hand in hand with profound advances in living standards and health: longer lives, healthier children, better education, shorter workweeks and many more improvements. Our period of progress began recently, bringing the discovery of antibiotics, the invention of electric lightbulbs, video calls with Grandma and the possibility of eradicating Guinea worm disease. In this short period, humanity has been large and growing. Economists who study growth and progress don't think this is a coincidence. Innovations and discoveries are made by people. In a world with fewer people in it, the loss of so much human potential may threaten humanity's continued path toward better lives.

Whenever low birthrates get public attention, chances are somebody is concerned about what it means for international competition, immigration or a government's fiscal challenges over the coming decades as the population ages. But that's thinking too small. A depopulating world is a big change that we all face together. It's bigger than geopolitical advantage or government budgets. It's much bigger than nationalistic worries over which country or culture might manage to eke out a population decline that's a little bit slower than its neighbors'.

Fewer and fewer countries have high birthrates.

Total fertility rates and populations for countries with at least 1 million people.

Population.

1 billion.

100 million.

100,000.

Total fertility rate654321 The total fertility rate is the number of births a woman would have if she followed the average patterns of births in her country during her lifetime. Over the past two centuries, birthrates have fallen everywhere. Africa is the only higher-fertility region remaining. A rate of about 2. 1 is known as replacement fertility because the population would stabilize if every two people had two children (plus additional births to account for childhood deaths and imbalances in sex at birth). Most people now live in places with below-replacement fertility. Europe crossed the threshold in 1975, China in the early 1990's, Brazil in the early 2000's. India crossed below 2 in its most recent population survey. Mali.

6. 0 Niger.

6. 8 Nigeria.

5. 2 China.

1. 2 Hong Kong.

0. 7 India.

2. 0 Italy.

1. 3 REPLACEMENT FERTILITY.

Source: you. And. World Population Prospects 2022.

Sustained below-replacement fertility will mean tens of billions of lives not lived over the next few centuries — many lives that could have been wonderful for the people who would have lived them and by your standards, too.

Perhaps that loss doesn't trouble you. It would be tempting to welcome depopulation as a boon to the environment. But the pace of depopulation will be too slow for our most pressing problems. It will not replace the need for urgent action on climate, land use, biodiversity, pollution and other environmental challenges. If the population hits around 10 billion people in the 2080's and then begins to decline, it might still exceed today's eight billion after 2100. Population decline would come quickly, measured in generations, and yet arrive far too slowly to be more than a sideshow in the effort to save the planet. Work to decarbonize our economies and reform our land use and food systems must accelerate in this decade and the next, not start in the next century.

This isn't a call to immediately remake our societies and economies in the service of birthrates. It's a call to start conversations now, so that our response to low birthrates is a decision that is made with the best ideas from all of us. Kicking the can down the road will make choices more difficult for future generations. The economics and politics of a society in which the old outnumber the young will make it even harder to choose policies that support children.

If we wait, the less inclusive, less compassionate, less calm elements within our society and many societies worldwide may someday call depopulation a crisis and exploit it to suit their agendas — of inequality, nationalism, exclusion or control. Paying attention now would create an opportunity to lay out a path that would preserve freedom, share burdens, advance gender equity, value care work and avoid the disasters that happen when governments try to impose their will on reproduction.

Or perhaps we don't need to concern ourselves at all if fertility rates self-correct to two. But the data shows that they don't. Births won't automatically rebound just because it would be convenient for advancing living standards or sharing the burden of care work or financing social insurance programs. We know that fertility rates can stay below replacement because they have. They've been below that level in Brazil and Chile for about 20 years; in Thailand for about 30 years; and in Canada, Germany and Japan for about 50.

In fact, in none of the countries where lifelong fertility rates have fallen well below two have they ever returned above it. Depopulation could continue, generation after generation, as long as people look around and decide that small families work best for them, some having no children, some having three or four and many having one or two.

Nor can humanity count on any one region or subgroup to buoy us all over the long run. Birthrates are falling in sub-Saharan Africa, the region with the current highest average rates, as education and economic opportunities continue to improve. Israel is an example of a rich country that, as of today, has above-replacement fertility rates. But there, too, fertility rates have been falling over the decades, from 4. 5 in 1950 to 3. 0 today. Israel may not be above 2. 1 for many more generations.

As living standards increased, birthrates fell.

Total fertility rates and G. The. P. Per capita for countries with at least 1 million people.

$1,000 $10,000 G. The. P. Per capita $100,000123456 Total fertility rate719912021.

1991.

2021.

Sources: you. And. World Population Prospects 2022, World Bank.

The main reason that birthrates are low is simple: People today want smaller families than people did in the past. That's true in different cultures and economies around the world. It's what both women and men report in surveys.

Humanity is building a better, freer world with more opportunities for everyone, especially for women. That progress deserves everyone's greatest celebration — and everyone's continued efforts. That progress also means that, for many of us, the desire to build a family can clash with other important goals, including having a career, pursuing projects and maintaining relationships. No society has solved this yet. These tradeoffs bite deep for parents everywhere. For some parents, that means struggle. For others, that means smaller families than they hoped for. And for too many, it means both.

In a world of sustained low birthrates and declining populations, there may be threats of backsliding on reproductive freedom — by limiting abortion rights, for example. Some will inexcusably claim that restricting reproductive choice is a way to curb long-run population decline. Some already do.

No. Low birthrates are no reason to reverse progress toward a more free, diverse and equal world. Restricting reproductive rights — by denying access to critical health care and by denying the basic freedom to choose to parent or not to parent — would harm many people and for that reason would be wrong whether or not depopulation is coming. And it would not prevent the population from shrinking. We know that because fertility rates are below two both where abortion is freely available and where abortion is restricted. Any policymaker asking how to respond to global depopulation should start by asking what people want and how to help them achieve it rather than by asking what they might take away.

There are many ways to live a life or be a family, and having that freedom and diversity is good. If an inclusive, compassionate response to population decline emerges someday, it need not be in conflict with those values. If one in every four pairs of American adults would choose to have one more child, that would be enough to stabilize the USA Population. In that future, there would still be many ways to live a life or be a family; two kids on average doesn't mean two kids for everyone.

Nobody yet knows what to do about global depopulation. But it wasn't long ago that nobody knew what to do about climate change. These shared challenges have much in common, which gives humanity some shared experience to build on.

As with climate change, our individual decisions on family size add up to an outcome that we all share. No people are making mistakes when they choose not to have children or to have small families. (Although we might all be making a mistake, together, when instead of taking care of one another, we make it hard for people to choose larger families.) It's in no one's hands to change global population trajectories alone. Not yours, whatever you choose for your life, not one country's, not one generation's. Nor is it in your hands personally to end all carbon emissions even by ending your own emissions. And yet our personal choices add up to big implications for humanity as a whole.

It's not too early to take depopulation seriously. The New York Times reported on the threat of climate change in 1956. A scientist testified about it before Congress in 1957. In 1965 the White House released a report calling carbon dioxide a pollutant, warning of a warming world with melting ice caps and rising sea levels. That was nearly six decades ago.

Six decades from now is when the you. And. Projects the size of the world population will peak. There won't be any quick fixes: Even if it's too early today to know exactly how to build an abundant future that offers good lives to a stable, large and flourishing future population, we should already be working toward that goal. Waiting until the population peaks to ask how to respond to depopulation would be as imprudent as waiting until the world starts to run out of fossil fuels to begin responding to climate change.

Humanity needs a compassionate, factual and fair conversation about how to respond to depopulation and how to share the burdens of creating each future generation. The way to have that conversation is to start paying attention now.

Methodology.

Historical data for the top line chart came from Our World in Data. The projections are by Dean Spears, Sangita Vyas, Gage Weston and Michael Geruso.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853179]Ridiculous. The woman apparently doesn't watch MSNBC or CNN or read the New York Times or Washington Post editorial pages. Trump won't win the 2024 election, so she's hyperventilating about nothing. ... [/QUOTE]Boy the truth must really sting! Must I remind you that, [i]"the greatest trick [b]the devil[/b] ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist."[/i]

So when "the polls" (...again I personally don't follow the polls or believe them), have the arch-insurrectionist, 4x indicted, "pussy grabbing" ex-president with odds, of no more than a supposed "coin-flip", away from the White House and the Presidency, you'll see why Politics Girl, is every bit spot-on and again...just nails it.

Still watching FOXY News, I see. Well since it seems you definitely don't mind being lied to on a daily basis...carry on!

[b]Dear Media, Do Your Job! What is Going on with our Media? [/b]
[url]https://crooksandliars.com/2023/09/dear-media-do-your-job[/url]

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853316]Biden White House spokesperson Ian Sams sent out a letter to news organizations Tuesday, giving instructions on how they should cover (or non-cover, as it were) the

Republican impeachment inquiry announced that day by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. ... [/QUOTE] I wouldn't cover/report on pretenses, lies and utter nonsense either, only to detract from the great job Biden is doing running the America and getting the country back on track, domestically and internationally.

[b]House Republicans frustrated as Hunter Biden witness keeps ghosting them...[/b]
[URL]https://www.rawstory.com/republicans-witnesses-hunter-biden-ghosting/[/URL]

Perhaps when there's actual evidence off wrongdoing, it will be worth reporting. Till then, continue being lied to by MAGA politicians (with ghosting problems), smelly fishing expeditions or FOXY News (spewing more lies) or is it Newsmax now?

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853306][QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853306][URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/religion-masking[/URL][/QUOTE]
That link just doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE] Do they ever make sense? (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853182]... I know many Republicans, and I promise you it's a very, very small % that do that, [u]I'd estimate way, way under 1/100th of 1%.[/u] [/QUOTE]

BTW, FWIW, here's a good tip, just think of MdS1's links\posts, like your [b]"I'd estimate way, way under 1/100th of 1%"[/b], of ever making sense. (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853637]

Still watching FOXY News, I see. Well since it seems you definitely don't mind being lied to on a daily basis...carry on!
[/QUOTE]I collectively watch more MSNBC and CNN than Fox. All three lie to me. MSNBC lies the most, 24 hours a day, every day. However, during the evenings Fox does a pretty good job of matching them, lie for lie. And no, I don't mind it. It's hilarious!

Utah and the Mormons can recover their reputation that the dirtbag destroyed.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/17/exclusive-utah-senate-gop-candidate-trent-staggs-romney-retirement-utah-ready-america-first-candidate/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853692]I collectively watch more MSNBC and CNN than Fox. All three lie to me. MSNBC lies the most, 24 hours a day, every day. However, during the evenings Fox does a pretty good job of matching them, lie for lie. And no, I don't mind it. It's hilarious![/QUOTE]It's difficult to find a more current assessment.

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

[QUOTE](regarding [b]Fux News[/b])
That means about 60 percent of the claims weve checked have been rated Mostly False or worse. Heres how it breaks down (as of Jan. 27, 2015): see chart.
....
At [b]MSNBC and NBC[/b], 44 percent of claims have received a rating of Mostly False or worse. The full breakdown: see chart.
....
And as for [B]CNN[/b]? It has the best record among the cable networks, as 80 percent of of the claims weve rated are Half True or better. see chart. [/QUOTE]That being the case, it is then worth seeing what the Best Truth-Teller of the 3 has to say about Fux News quite recently:

[B]Analysis: Fox News has been exposed as a dishonest organization terrified of its own audience.
February 17, 2023[/B]

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/business/fox-news-dominion-lies/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Fox News has been exposed like never before.

A trove of newly-released text messages and emails have laid bare how the right-wing media giant operated with little regard for fact in the weeks and months following the 2020 presidential election. The correspondence reveals that the networks senior-most executives and highest-profile hosts chose not to disclose what they believed to be the truth of the election out of fear that that the facts would alienate Fox News audience and throw the highly profitable business into ruin.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853694]Utah and the Mormons can recover their reputation that the dirtbag destroyed.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/17/exclusive-utah-senate-gop-candidate-trent-staggs-romney-retirement-utah-ready-america-first-candidate/[/URL][/QUOTE]I saw it the first time Marquis. I have no problem with this guy. He appears to be anti-war, unlike Romney, which is a plus in my book. It sounds like his background, in finance and management consulting, is a lot like Romney's. He has business experience which is also plus. He advocated universal COVID testing for schoolchildren. He says he's molding himself on Mike Lee, who is truly the taxpayer's friend. Based on policy preferences I might like him a little more than Romney.

Now, what you're getting at, does he buy into Trump's election denialism? My suspicion is that in his heart of hearts he does not. Unlike Romney however, he won't say it. In Utah it doesn't matter. The Republican, whoever he is, will win the general election.

If you want to get into an argument bring up Jeff Flake instead.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853559]
Cue the typically pro-Repub MSM Bothsiderism shrugging all this off as something old folks like Trump and Biden do all the time despite the fact that Joe Biden has never sounded that confused and blithering in the 50+ years he has been a public figure.[/QUOTE]Oh yes he has. Both are world class liars. And Biden's a world class plagiarizer too.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853639]Do they ever make sense? (...kkkk!)



BTW, FWIW, here's a good tip, just think of MdS1's links\posts, like your [b]"I'd estimate way, way under 1/100th of 1%"[/b], of ever making sense. (...kkkk!)[/QUOTE]99.99% of Republicans and 90% of Democrats make sense from time to time. You fall into the 90%. You're welcome.

"I saw it the first time Marquis. I have no problem with this guy. He appears to be anti-war, unlike Romney, which is a plus in my book. It sounds like his background, in finance and management consulting, is a lot like Romney's. He has business experience which is also plus. He advocated universal COVID testing for schoolchildren. He says he's molding himself on Mike Lee, who is truly the taxpayer's friend. Based on policy preferences I might like him a little more than Romney.

Now, what you're getting at, does he buy into Trump's election denialism? My suspicion is that in his heart of hearts he does not. Unlike Romney however, he won't say it. In Utah it doesn't matter. The Republican, whoever he is, will win the general election.

If you want to get into an argument bring up Jeff Flake instead. ".

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-the-12-million-beach-mansion-mitt-romney-is-tearing-down-2011-8[/URL]

Romney stole all the money he has via vulture capitalism.

Flake just used old fashioned Mexican slavery / slaves.

2 parasites the world will instantly become a better place once both are dead.

ZERO election denialism.

Just calling a spade a spade it was rigged!!

And EVERYONE knows it, including you.

Dirty Joe couldn't beat Charles Manson not even posthumously.

"Oh yes he has. Both are world class liars. And Biden's a world class plagiarizer too. ".

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/all-the-presidents-tells-how-to-spot-a-biden-lie/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/why-biden-lies/[/URL]

According to the NR Dirty Joe is a "Classic Bullshitter" upper case no less LMAO.

Thats why ET likes Dirty Joe so much, birds of a feather LOL.

Oh yes he has. Both are world class liars. And Biden's a world class plagiarizer too.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-new-york-times-bidens-a-serial-liar-but-trump/[/URL]

But bad Orange Man.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853718]Oh yes he has. Both are world class liars. And Biden's a world class plagiarizer too.[/QUOTE]We are all anxious to see the video clips and quotes of Joe Biden THREE TIMES in a major televized campaign speech cite a person who in no way ever ran against him or ever will run against him, by law, as his upcoming election opponent and close with a big, dramatic, obviously rehearsed warning that we might begin WWII any minute now.

Please provide them as soon as possible.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2853538]
[B]The United States Constitution[/b]
Section 3.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.[/QUOTE]So it seems it was rigged in favor of land barons over the greater number of individuals from the beginning.

And all while creating the [I]illusion[/I] of numerical fairness for those most likely to lose a ton of $20 bills at a 3-Card Monte table.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853637]
Still watching FOXY News, I see. Well since it seems you definitely don't mind being lied to on a daily basis...carry on![/QUOTE]Anything you don't like is Fox News. That was actually Matt Taibbi doing something you don't recognize Spidy, telling the truth.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853637]I wouldn't cover/report on pretenses, lies and utter nonsense either, only to detract from the great job Biden is doing running the America and getting the country back on track, domestically and internationally.[/QUOTE]And by lies, you mean what? You mean Joe Biden did not get Shokin fired? You mean Shokin was not investigating Hunter for a corrupt business deal? You mean Hunter did not say in his laptop that Dad gets half of all he earns? You mean the FBI did not want that 1023 non-classified document released? You mean the memo did not say $5 million for each Biden? And Hunter Biden did not himself say that he would not have been hired by Burisma if not for his last name?

Then there are Hunter Biden's shell companies, Devon Archer's testimony about Joe Biden's presence during his son's business calls, Joe dining with Burisma exec Vadym Pozharsky at Cafe Milano.

They are all lies and pretenses?

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853637]House Republicans frustrated as Hunter Biden witness keeps ghosting them.[/QUOTE]Speaking of lies, that story is months old, and Devin Archer did testify. He even went on Tucker Carlson.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853637]Only to detract from the great job Biden is doing running the America and getting the country back on track, domestically and internationally.[/QUOTE]You must live in a different country than I do.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853709]It's difficult to find a more current assessment.

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]
[/QUOTE]Dear Tooms,

Politifact has a left of center bias.

[URL]https://www.allsides.com/news-source/politifact[/URL]

And furthermore your Politifact link lumps MSNBC in with NBC. NBC lies a lot less than MSNBC.

I stand by what I said.

Sincerely,

Fair and Balanced Tiny.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853730]We are all anxious to see the video clips and quotes of Joe Biden THREE TIMES in a major televized campaign speech cite a person who in no way ever ran against him or ever will run against him, by law, as his upcoming election opponent and close with a big, dramatic, obviously rehearsed warning that we might begin WWII any minute now.

Please provide them as soon as possible.[/QUOTE]So, as opposed to links describing or showing Biden lying, and there are many, I'm supposed to find links of a major televised campaign speech where Biden says something about someone who won't run against him. That should be easy but it's pointless. And find where he says we might begin World War II. OK, he is kind of senile, but I think he knows World War II happened a long time ago.

Unusually, your post isn't comprehensible, to me at least, so I don't understand what you're getting at. But I suspect you're trying to do the three card monte deal. Like where we're supposed to totally ignore every Republican state with a large population and every Democratic state with a small population and then say the country is a an oligarchy ruled by the landed class.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853726]
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-the-12-million-beach-mansion-mitt-romney-is-tearing-down-2011-8[/URL]

Romney stole all the money he has via vulture capitalism.

Flake just used old fashioned Mexican slavery / slaves.

2 parasites the world will instantly become a better place once both are dead.

ZERO election denialism.

Just calling a spade a spade it was rigged!!

And EVERYONE knows it, including you.

Dirty Joe couldn't beat Charles Manson not even posthumously.[/QUOTE]That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor.

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor. ".

I've seen several interviews with him over the years including the Daily Show w / Trevor Noah LMAO.

Where all he ever has to say is how much he, loves his dirtcheap Mexican slaves / labourers on his ranch.

I've heard him swoon over them every time he spoke like he was going to cry over how little they let him pay them!!

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/19/survey-trump-leads-biden-across-battleground-states/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/19/morning-consult-poll-donald-trump-and-joe-biden-tied-nationally/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/19/sununu-biden-losing-support-very-strong-possibility-nh-goes-republican-in-2024/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/19/poll-biden-trails-trump-leads-desantis-generic-gop-candidate/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853858]So, as opposed to links describing or showing Biden lying, and there are many, I'm supposed to find links of a major televised campaign speech where Biden says something about someone who won't run against him. That should be easy but it's pointless. And find where he says we might begin World War II. OK, he is kind of senile, but I think he knows World War II happened a long time ago.

Unusually, your post isn't comprehensible, to me at least, so I don't understand what you're getting at. But I suspect you're trying to do the three card monte deal. Like where we're supposed to totally ignore every Republican state with a large population and every Democratic state with a small population and then say the country is a an oligarchy ruled by the landed class.[/QUOTE]I'll take that as an "I can't provide any links for anything remotely like that with Biden because there aren't any" response.

Or is it another, "Google (or Politifact or all available evidence, etc) is Left Leaning and the Repub Party memo demands that I say it can not be trusted so I will stick with that notion as my excuse for not substantiating what I just pulled out of my butt" response?

Joe Biden is no less lucid and cognitively capable as any 40 year old news anchor on any national news program. And many times better informed and prepared to deal with real world presidential level issues than they are.

The only difference is he might speak more slowly and does dodge stutter-trigger words as necessary. Which requires more agile and nimble facility with the language than most public speakers have ever mastered at any age. I do not hear Joe Biden stumble or bobble over the wrong word or a mispronunciation of a word any more than any professional public speaker, politician or successful business executive 1/3 his age.

He is many times smoother and more confident in extemporaneous interviews than, say, Elon Musk, who is a stammering, lost, long awkward pause, word searching train wreck at such times.

In a debate, Joe Biden would make DeSantis sound like he had recently suffered a debilitating brain injury.

Against Trump, Joe Biden would slaughter him on the facts and on the solutions to whatever horrific problem Repubs have created even more thoroughly than he did in 2020. That is, if either DeSantis or Trump would have the balls to show up for a debate with Joe Biden or hide from it the way Trump did in 2020.

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor. ".

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/jeffcrouere/never-trump-donald-trump-gop/2023/09/18/id/1134904/[/URL]

Flake is no hero hes a turd if he had an ounce of honor he and Romney would both kill themselves for bringing such shame to the Church.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853734]So it seems it was rigged in favor of land barons over the greater number of individuals from the beginning.

And all while creating the [I]illusion[/I] of numerical fairness for those most likely to lose a ton of $20 bills at a 3-Card Monte table.[/QUOTE]"In 1787 the framers of the United States Constitution established in Article I the structure and powers of Congress. They debated the idea of a Congress made up of two houses. One house would be, in the words of Virginia's George Mason, the "grand depository of the democratic principle of government. " To counter this popular influence in the national government, James Madison of Virginia proposed another house that would be small, deliberative, and independent from the larger, more democratic house. This became the Senate. ".

[URL]https://www.senate.gov/about/origins-foundations.htm[/URL]

Many aspects of the constitution was a compromise in order to get it adopted. 3/5 of a person clause comes to mind.

[URL]https://www.theusconstitution.org/news/understanding-the-three-fifths-compromise/[/URL]

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2853954]"In 1787 the framers of the United States Constitution established in Article I the structure and powers of Congress. They debated the idea of a Congress made up of two houses. One house would be, in the words of Virginia's George Mason, the "grand depository of the democratic principle of government. " To counter this popular influence in the national government, James Madison of Virginia proposed another house that would be small, deliberative, and independent from the larger, more democratic house. This became the Senate. ".

[URL]https://www.senate.gov/about/origins-foundations.htm[/URL]

Many aspects of the constitution was a compromise in order to get it adopted. 3/5 of a person clause comes to mind.

[URL]https://www.theusconstitution.org/news/understanding-the-three-fifths-compromise/[/URL][/QUOTE]From your first link:

[QUOTE]The Constitution granted state legislatures the power to elect United States senators. Supporters of the Constitution argued that this method of election would strengthen the states' ties to the national government and [b]insulate senators from shifting public opinion. To further distance the Senate from democratic pressures[/b], the framers also provided that only one-third of the Senate would stand for election every two years.[/QUOTE]Ah yes, those pesky [I]public[/I] opinions and [I]democratic pressures.[/I]. Must reduce the influence of that at all costs.

Why, if it got out of hand the next thing you know those 3/5th voters might find themselves with a full 5/5th of a vote. And that will require a slew of other Southern Straregies and Shenanigans to MAGA like it was in those sorely missed 3/5th days.

Rather than contribute to, change or meaningfully subtract from the Clinton / Dem policies that produced the historic recovery, jobs creation, economic expansion and budget surpluses of the Clinton years, even slavishly loyal longtime Repub Menace to America Moscow Mitch could not help noticing iconic Repub former Speaker of the House Nude Grinbitch's government shutdowns accomplished nothing but bad news for his beloved Repub Party.

Which, hilariously, Moscow Mitch sees as "critically important for the American people" to avoid. Those who love Great Repub Recessions, Massive Repub Jobs Destruction, Skyrocketing Repub Deficits with nothing to show for it and all those other wonderful things the USA gets when politically and electorally good things happen for Repubs, that is.

Yeah, it would have been a refreshing change if that classic old Repub had at least mentioned in passing that those Repub government shutdowns are also generally bad / losers for America, the American people, USA jobs, the USA economy, the Great Repub Deficits, etc etc etc.

But considering none of those things are top, middle or bottom of mind for a Repub and his Party's only concern, ever, is for its political and election prospects, I suppose that is not a reasonable expectation.

[B]McConnell warns that shutdowns have 'always been a loser for Republicans'[/B]

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mcconnell-warns-government-shutdowns-republicans-lose-rcna105885[/URL]

[QUOTE]"Ive seen a few of them over the years. They never have produced a policy change and they've always been a loser for Republicans politically," he said.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853863]That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor.[/QUOTE]In 2012, MittWitt boldly pledged that his brilliant Repub policies would reduce the unemployment rate to 6% by the end of his first presidential term:

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/romney-doubles-down-on-vow-of-6-unemployment[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2853863]That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor.[/QUOTE]Back to the post I meant to submit earlier.

In 2012, MittWitt pledged his brilliant Repub policies and stewardship would lower the unemployment rate to 6% by the end of his first term:

[B]Romney Doubles Down on Vow of 6% Unemployment.
May 23, 2012[/B]

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/romney-doubles-down-on-vow-of-6-unemployment[/URL]

Obama's policies got it there in half the time. All while every idiot Repub in the country was screaming that THIS Great Dem Economic Recovery from GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction was "the slowest" Great Dem Economic Recovery from a Great Repub Recession and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction of any Great Dem Economic Recovery from a Great Repub Recession and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction before it. Oh boo hoo.

Nevermind that inconvenient detail about Moscow Mitch demanding all of his fellow Repubs in Congress vow on Obama's inauguration night not to lift so much as a pinkie finger to help Obama and the Dems pull us out of that historic Great Repub Recession and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction they created so as to make him a one term president.

In fact, Moscow Mitch openly pledged to "slow walk" any and all classic tried and true Great Dem Economic Recovery legislation he and his fellow Senate / Congressional Repubs could not totally thwart, obstruct and kill from the get-go. And so they did, keeping as many Americans suffering from the millions upon millions of jobs wiped out by their typically horrific Repub policies and stewardship for as long as their obstruction and "slow walking" of a Great Dem Economic Recovery could produce.

[B]Mitt Romney promised he'd cut unemployment to 6% in one term. It's already down to 5%.
Dec. 4, 2015[/B]

[URL]https://www.vox.com/2015/1/9/7522563/romney-unemployment-promise-6[/URL]

[B]President Obama Has Cut the Unemployment Rate More Than Any President since FDR.
Jan. 6, 2017[/B]

[URL]https://tcf.org/content/commentary/president-obama-cut-unemployment-rate-president-since-fdr/[/URL]

Repubs don't know shit about the economy. None of them.

Never did. Never will.

The absolute worst economic results from the policies and stewardship of any president ever have all been from Repub presidents' policies and stewardship; Hoover's, GW Bush's and Trump's being at the top of The Worst of All Time List. By stark contrast, the Best Economic Recoveries, Jobs Creation and Economic Results have all been produced by Dem Economic Policies and Stewardship; FDR, JFK / LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Obama, Biden, the Dem list of Best Ever just goes on and on.

"So, as opposed to links describing or showing Biden lying, and there are many, I'm supposed to find links of a major televised campaign speech where Biden says something about someone who won't run against him. That should be easy but it's pointless. And find where he says we might begin World War II. OK, he is kind of senile, but I think he knows World War II happened a long time ago.

Unusually, your post isn't comprehensible, to me at least, so I don't understand what you're getting at. But I suspect you're trying to do the three card monte deal. Like where we're supposed to totally ignore every Republican state with a large population and every Democratic state with a small population and then say the country is a an oligarchy ruled by the landed class. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/20/jd-vance-five-years-from-now-were-going-to-find-a-lot-of-people-have-gotten-rich-off-ukraine-war/[/URL]

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/20/exclusive-alex-marlow-we-need-reset-on-joe-biden-focus-on-corruption-and-failures-not-his-age-and-gaffes/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2853947]Flake is no hero hes a turd if he had an ounce of honor he and Romney would both kill themselves for bringing such shame to the Church.[/QUOTE]Mormons don't pray to Donald Trump. They pray to God and golden plates. And they call the devil "Satan", not "Mitt Romney."

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853945]Or is it another, "Google (or Politifact or all available evidence, etc) is Left Leaning and the Repub Party memo demands that I say it can not be trusted so I will stick with that notion as my excuse for not substantiating what I just pulled out of my butt" response?[/QUOTE]I am not a Democratic Party Politician or Pundit. The only things I pull out of my ass are dingleberries.

Brother Marquis and Brother Tooms, I'm glad I've brought you together and healed the hatred and loathing in your hearts. OK, "hatred and loathing" is much too strong. But see, you're united in your opinion of Mitt Romney! While I disagree with you about Mitt, I hope some day in some faraway place we can join hands and sing Kumbaya!

"Mormons don't pray to Donald Trump. They pray to God and golden plates. And they call the devil "Satan", not "Mitt Romney."

But they should, I do and I'm an ardent atheist!

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/20/donald-trump-promises-the-largest-domestic-deportation-operation-in-american-history/[/URL]

There is but one true god.

Donald J Trump.

"That's plain silly Marquis. Biden would lose to any of the Republican candidates save one. But he would beat Charles Manson and Donald Trump.

Romney was a management consultant then private equity head for Bain capital. He created more jobs than he destroyed, and improved productivity at the companies he advised and helped acquire. If you believe experience in the private sector is relevant to government, then Romney's your man if you want the USA to be an economic and industrial power house.

Trump on the other hand started with $400 million from his father and over $1 billion from bondholders and banks who he didn't repay. And that was back when $1. 4 billion was a lot of money. And ended up with assets that are worth less than what he started with after you account for inflation.

You and I paid a lot more taxes than Trump did in many years, because he was able to use that $1 billion that he didn't repay the bondholders as a carried forward tax loss for many years. Based on Trump's experience in the private sector, you might expect him to run up the national debt and push for rock bottom interest rates, like he did with his Atlantic City casinos and banks. And he did that. Romney on the other hand was better prepared from his business experience to make America competitive and prosperous again.

That's not to say that Trump wasn't head and shoulders above Biden in terms of economic policy. He was.

Flake is an American hero. Please educate me on how he used Mexican slave labor."

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/20/trump-has-commanding-lead-in-nh-desantis-collapses-to-fifth-place/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854168]Brother Marquis and Brother Tooms, I'm glad I've brought you together and healed the hatred and loathing in your hearts. OK, "hatred and loathing" is much too strong. But see, you're united in your opinion of Mitt Romney! While I disagree with you about Mitt, I hope some day in some faraway place we can join hands and sing Kumbaya![/QUOTE]I don't think we are exactly united in our negative opinion of MittWitt. Also, we have formed a negative one of him for different reasons.

I assume Marquis hates him for having half the guts to vote to convict his lord and savior in the Senate for at least one of his blatantly obvious Impeachment-worthy infractions; his clumsy, fully witnessed attempt to extort Zelenskyy into fabricating dirt on Biden with our tax dollars specifically earmarked by Congress to defend his country from Putin's idiotic invasion.

I don't hate MittWitt. I only dismiss him as just another Know Nothing Repub who clearly doesn't know anything about how to recover, expand and create jobs in a complex national economy like the USA economy. But, like all Repubs, he thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it. Which he does not, of course.

Interesting that Marquis often implores me to use drugs in order to see things his way and now he wants you to stop using drugs to achieve the same result.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853800]Anything you don't like is Fox News. That was actually Matt Taibbi doing something you don't recognize Spidy, telling the truth.[/QUOTE]Don't know who the guy is?

As of for the truth...well that's pretty much in the eye of the beholder, for the most part. Now this concept my seem forigen to you and QAnon/MAGA Repubs cult fringe, but incontrovertible FACTS and HARD EVIDENCE, is definitely something I can hang my hat on.

[b]When Did Republicans Start Hating Facts?[/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/opinion/republicans-reagan-disinformation.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853800]And by lies, you mean what? You mean Joe Biden did not get Shokin fired? You mean Shokin was not investigating Hunter for a corrupt business deal? You mean Hunter did not say in his laptop that Dad gets half of all he earns? You mean the FBI did not want that 1023 non-classified document released? You mean the memo did not say $5 million for each Biden? And Hunter Biden did not himself say that he would not have been hired by Burisma if not for his last name? [/QUOTE] Life's too short! Like I said, I tend not to pay too much attention to hearsay, lies and conspiracy theories. Perhaps when hard facts, material evidence and "flesh and blood" witnesses show up to testify I'll pay more attention.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853692]I collectively watch more MSNBC and CNN than Fox. All three lie to me. MSNBC lies the most, 24 hours a day, every day. However, during the evenings Fox does a pretty

good job of matching them, lie for lie. And no, I don't mind it. It's hilarious! [/QUOTE] Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

[b]Ray Epps, Target of Conspiracy Theory, Pleads Guilty to Jan. 6 ... [/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/20/us/politics/ray-epps-pleads-guilty.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2852955]...It's somewhat reminiscent of Ray Epp's situation. Epps was a strong supporter of Trump, and a regional leader of the Oath Keepers. Because of a false conspiracy theory spread by Revolver and Tucker Carlson, that he was some kind of federal agent, he had to sell his business and house in Arizona and go into semi hiding somewhere in the Rockies. Epps says the government is going to soon charge him for encouraging people to peacefully trespass on Capitol grounds on January 6. [b]That may actually help him. Maybe it will cause his potential persecutors to realize he wasnt a government agent. ...[/b][/QUOTE]Now things are getting interesting. Your dude, Ray Epps, just got charged by the DOJ and plead guilty to conspiracy...Yikes!

Looks like you maybe onto something, with his FOXY News lawsuit, I hope it helps...but I'm still not certain about that.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2853126]...If there ever was a case where a more apropos saying of, [b] "He that lies/sleeps with dogs, riseth with fleas"[/b], I'd have to say, Ray Epp's case is a classic example. Good luck to him and his FOXY News lawsuit. ...[/QUOTE]

In Ray Epps, words: [i]" ...I went to the J6 protest, believing FOX News. I believed FOX news...that is until they LIED ABOUT ME"[/i]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853709][b]Has the long term Fux Fake News Liar problem gotten worse lately? Yes, much worse. [/b]

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL] ...[/QUOTE]

FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2853709][b]Analysis: Fox News has been exposed as a dishonest organization terrified of its own audience. February 17, 2023[/b]

"... the networks senior-most executives and highest-profile hosts chose not to disclose what they believed to be the truth of the election out of fear that that the facts would alienate Fox News audience and throw the highly profitable business into ruin. " [/QUOTE] Yep, that explains it!

Pity a more up-to-date chart/survey isn't available, as I would imagine it would look a lot different with CNN now that the right-wing billionaire, Malone, looks to revamp CNN into a "FOX News" dumpster fire, as staff members fear.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2854350]FOXY News, being the worst is just so inescapably obvious, it's just dumbfounding how it's viewers can't see it.
[/QUOTE]What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2854339]Well you're right about one thing, FOXY News is hilarious ...(kkkk!). And it really comes as no surprise that you like being lied to...carry on!

[/QUOTE]I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

[URL]https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/12/is-msnbc-worse-than-fox-news-179175[/URL]

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854330] But, like all Repubs, he (Romney) thinks he knows better than the least successful Dem in that regard for how to do it.[/QUOTE]Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854478]Yes, of course he does. If Romney and likeminded politicians and bureaucrats controlled the USA for a long stretch, our economic performance and prosperity would be second to none.[/QUOTE]Sure. And maybe in just 4 years they could get the Unrmployment Rate down to 6%.

As bold and challenging as they and their pro-Repub Bothsider support system in Mainstream Media might think of such a lofty goal, based on what possible evidence and historical precedence have you come to such a ridiculous conclusion?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854477]What you and Tooms refuse to accept is that Politifact is biased and, more importantly, MSNBC and NBC were clumped into one category by Politifact. If, say, Fox and the Wall Street Journal or Fox and the Associated Press were combined, the numbers would be different.

I've watched more MSNBC than Fox News over the last 5 years. You probably never watch Fox so you don't know. Some years ago the Pew Center looked at how much of the networks' programming was dedicated to "opinion" versus "news. " This is from Politico"

"In March, a Pew Research Center study -- yes, Pew -- found that 85 percent of MSNBC's programming is dedicated to "opinion," versus 15 percent that is dedicated to "news. " Fox News dedicated just 55 percent of its programming to "opinion" and 45 percent to "news. " (CNN dedicates 46 percent to "opinion" and 54 percent to "news. ") During the 2012 election, the ratio of unfavorable to favorable treatment in stories on Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on MSNBC "was roughly 23-to-1; the negative-to-positive ratio on Fox News was 8-to-1. ".

"Ok, fine. But MSNBC's opinions are rooted in fact, whereas the Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys willingly peddle misinformation!

But see, that's the thing. Many of MSNBC's opinions aren't rooted in fact. Many of them are rooted in unfounded speculation. Melissa Harris-Perry's recent claim that Obamacare is a racially loaded term conceived of "by a group of wealthy white men who needed a way to put themselves above and apart from a black man" is based on. What? The fact that the term was first used by a woman? The fact that, from Reaganomics to Hillarycare, we've always ascribed names to signature policies and legislation?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a new essay for The National Review, Charles see. W. Cooke explains how MSNBC routinely demonizes the opposition to the point of absurdity...."

[URL]https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/12/is-msnbc-worse-than-fox-news-179175[/URL]

Now, admittedly, as Tooms effectively pointed out, the gap in the level of propaganda on Fox versus MSNBC narrowed somewhat after Fox learned its viewers wanted favorable coverage on Trump. But it's still there. Look at the hosts. On MSNBC, the only one who's halfway objective is Chris Jansing. John Roberts, Neil Cavuto, Bret Baier and Dana Perino fall into the same category as Jansing -- partisan but reasonably objective. And look at the hosts who have moved on in recent years. Chris Wallace is a Democrat. Shepard Smith is probably is probably a gay Democrat. On the MSNBC side, Chuck Todd was reasonably objective but certainly left leaning.

Newsmax and OAN arose because they thought there was a niche to the right of Fox. Nobody's going to find a niche to the left of MSNBC, because practically you can't go farther left. Thankfully, there's no market for a Socialist or Communist channel in the USA.

Of course, this makes no difference to partisan Democrats, because, like Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, they believe their side has a monopoly on the truth and the rest of the world are infidels. Therefore MSNBC tells the truth and Fox lies.[/QUOTE]I repost one of the Politifact links in question:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

If you reread it or, more likely, read it for the first time, I think you will notice for this overview Politifact is only talking about "cable networks". And, more specifically on the issue, it is about what "pundits and hosts" say on the various networks.

It is not about what is asserted as "news" on the various networks.

Although CNN (Cable News Network), Fux News Channel and NBC do have supposedly hard news reporting segments and programs, only Fux News Channel highlights and features the actual word "NEWS" on screen throughout the entirety of its now proven festival of Right Wing lies fully encouraged and promoted by the owner and management of the organization. In other words, EVERYTHING the "pundits and hosts" say is asserted and pawned off as hard news and not mere Right Wing lies and opinion.

MSNBC does not.

The hard news segments on MSNBC necessarily mirror the national news as reported on the hard news segments of its parent, NBC.

There is no national news hour, half hour or even 15 minutes on Fux News Channel's parent company. Therefore, there is no pressure on Fux News Channel to worry about totally contradicting what is reported as hard news on their non existant, say, "Fux Evening News Hour" while their "pundits and hosts" try to pass off their Right Wing lies as "news" 24/7/365 and 366 in Leap Years.

By design from the very beginning of it.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/21/poll-majority-of-voters-say-joe-biden-committed-crime-with-hunter-biden/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854536]I repost one of the Politifact links in question:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

If you reread it or, more likely, read it for the first time, I think you will notice for this overview Politifact is only talking about "cable networks". And, more specifically on the issue, it is about what "pundits and hosts" say on the various networks.

It is not about what is asserted as "news" on the various networks.

Although CNN (Cable News Network), Fux News Channel and NBC do have supposedly hard news reporting segments and programs, only Fux News Channel highlights and features the actual word "NEWS" on screen throughout the entirety of its now proven festival of Right Wing lies fully encouraged and promoted by the owner and management of the organization. In other words, EVERYTHING the "pundits and hosts" say is asserted and pawned off as hard news and not mere Right Wing lies and opinion.

MSNBC does not.

The hard news segments on MSNBC necessarily mirror the national news as reported on the hard news segments of its parent, NBC.

There is no national news hour, half hour or even 15 minutes on Fux News Channel's parent company. Therefore, there is no pressure on Fux News Channel to worry about totally contradicting what is reported as hard news on their non existant, say, "Fux Evening News Hour" while their "pundits and hosts" try to pass off their Right Wing lies as "news" 24/7/365 and 366 in Leap Years.

By design from the very beginning of it.[/QUOTE]Fox News, Fair and Balanced!

I must be clairvoyant to know that the Politifact article lumped NBC and MSNBC together without even reading the article! Hmm, I wonder how I can put that superpower to use. There must be a way to make a killing in the market and pick up women.

I do not see where Politifact is just looking at cable networks. In fact, they explicitly say they looked at all five networks, including CBS, although not as carefully as the rest.

MSNBC is a great place to catch up on Trump's wild and crazy goings on, because that's all they cover. That's why I watch it. You had a point, with respect to MSNBC at least, when you said the press devotes a lot more time to Trump than Biden. Trump sells commercioals!

Fox, more so than MSNBC, does present news not supporting a political agenda, more so during the day. Now yes, some is of the tabloid and "feel good" variety, but it's still not political.

Show me a leftist that doesn't hate whitey.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/is-ibram-x-kendi-a-racist/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854532]Sure. And maybe in just 4 years they could get the Unrmployment Rate down to 6%.

As bold and challenging as they and their pro-Repub Bothsider support system in Mainstream Media might think of such a lofty goal, based on what possible evidence and historical precedence have you come to such a ridiculous conclusion?[/QUOTE]Romney's large team at the equity arm of Bain Capital achieved an average annual return on realized investments of 113% per annum, according to Wikipedia. If he could do that for the average American, who has a net worth of $746,820, that American be worth $63 billion after 15 years!

Romney's showed himself to be an extraordinary executive who produced great economic results, particularly in the private sector but also as a fiscally-responsible governor of Massachusetts who introduced near-universal health care. If our political and bureaucratic class were consistently as able and wise as Romney, then over many years the USA would do very well. If he were a Democrat you'd agree with me.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854566]Fox News, Fair and Balanced!

I must be clairvoyant to know that the Politifact article lumped NBC and MSNBC together without even reading the article! Hmm, I wonder how I can put that superpower to use. There must be a way to make a killing in the market and pick up women.

MSNBC is a great place to catch up on Trump's wild and crazy goings on, because that's all they cover. That's why I watch it. You had a point, with respect to MSNBC at least, when you said the press devotes a lot more time to Trump than Biden. Trump sells commercioals!

Fox, more so than MSNBC, does present news not supporting a political agenda, more so during the day. Now yes, some is of the tabloid and "feel good" variety, but it's still not political.[/QUOTE]Wel, you could have scanned it enough to catch the [B]BOLD AND HIGHLIGHTED[/B] names of the networks. Maybe saw there were charts and stuff.

But nowhere did it mention they considered all of those cable networks "cable news networks". NBC was apparently brought into it simply because it would be rather improbable for MSNBC to contradict what had been reported as news on NBC's hard news programming.

And MSNBC repeats that news often, prefaces their "pundit and hosts" programming on it. Fux News Channel does not preface anything that must mirror the hard news reported on their parent company's hard news programming because there isn't any.

Rachel Maddow routinely restates the news and facts as a preface for the discussion that will follow with her guests who are key players on the issue and then always asks them on air if she got it right or did she miss anything important. Virtually every time they assure her she got it right. Then the discussion begins.

Now, if the slam on MSNBC is they don't have the Repub side of the "is it raining outside" issue, the side thar swears it is bone dry outside in the middle of a cloud burst, on their shows as often as they should in order to provide that infamous pro-Repub Fair and Balanced Bothsiderism to the discussion, rest assured Maddow and the others announce, on air, that the Repub Liar or Liars were repeatedly contacted and invited to join in on the discussion and declined or did not reply at all.

Similar to most beloved classic Repub Party icon Trump hiding in a Men's Room stall rather than show up for a Global Economic Summit meeting, a debate with Joe Biden or a debate against other classic Repub Party loons.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854570]Romney's large team at the equity arm of Bain Capital achieved an average annual return on realized investments of 113% per annum, according to Wikipedia. If he could do that for the average American, who has a net worth of $746,820, that American be worth $63 billion after 15 years!

Romney's showed himself to be an extraordinary executive who produced great economic results, particularly in the private sector but also as a fiscally-responsible governor of Massachusetts who introduced near-universal health care. If our political and bureaucratic class were consistently as able and wise as Romney, then over many years the USA would do very well. If he were a Democrat you'd agree with me.[/QUOTE]That has absolutely nothing to do with legislating and stewarding a complex national economy to positive results.

Zero.

If anything, leading a company in ways to make its owners and shareholders wealthier is the exact opposite of what it takes to produce Great Recoveries, Great Economic Expansions and Historic Job Gains in a national economy.

[B]Romney as Job Creator Clashes with Bain Record of Job Cuts[/B]

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts[/URL]

Perplexing, isn't it? No, not really.

LOL. Yeah, Trump figured out ways to blow all of his daddy's money and flush all the money anyone was stupid enough to entrust with him down the shitter, stiff all of his creditors, contractors and still managed to buy himself a gold toilet. Surely, he could do the same thing for all those dumb Repub hillbillies sending him major chunks of their entitlement checks. LOL.

[URL]https://amgreatness.com/2023/09/20/the-hidden-agenda-behind-lockdowns/[/URL]

"Mormons don't pray to Donald Trump. They pray to God and golden plates. And they call the devil "Satan", not "Mitt Romney. ".

But they should, I do and I'm an ardent atheist!

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/20/donald-trump-promises-the-largest-domestic-deportation-operation-in-american-history/[/URL]

There is but one true god.

Donald J Trump. ".

They are rejecting SATAN after all for the only one TRUE GOD.

Our Lord and Savior.

Donald J Trump.

What next the National Review editorial board LMAOOOOO.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/yes-joe-biden-is-corrupt/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=third[/URL]

Get on the Trump train already Tiny!

Romney's large team at the equity arm of Bain Capital achieved an average annual return on realized investments of 113% per annum, according to Wikipedia. If he could do that for the average American, who has a net worth of $746,820, that American be worth $63 billion after 15 years!

Romney's showed himself to be an extraordinary executive who produced great economic results, particularly in the private sector but also as a fiscally-responsible governor of Massachusetts who introduced near-universal health care. If our political and bureaucratic class were consistently as able and wise as Romney, then over many years the USA would do very well. If he were a Democrat you'd agree with me.

But how would he raid the SS trustfund and Fort Knox the federal govt and a country of 330 million are not as easily picked on ala the companies that he raped and pillaged whilst at Bain.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw[/URL] 2:36 and 4:03 are gold.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JzvYUYfICM[/URL] 0:50 is gold.

Lastly if you think hes so smart why is he so fucking poor LOL Romney is a 3 time loser lololololol.

Look at other hedge fund mgrs net worth lolololol.

"That has absolutely nothing to do with legislating and stewarding a complex national economy to positive results.

Zero.

If anything, leading a company in ways to make its owners and shareholders wealthier is the exact opposite of what it takes to produce Great Recoveries, Great Economic Expansions and Historic Job Gains in a national economy.

Romney as Job Creator Clashes with Bain Record of Job Cuts.

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts[/URL]

Perplexing, isn't it? No, not really.

LOL. Yeah, Trump figured out ways to blow all of his daddy's money and flush all the money anyone was stupid enough to entrust with him down the shitter, stiff all of his creditors, contractors and still managed to buy himself a gold toilet. Surely, he could do the same thing for all those dumb Repub hillbillies sending him major chunks of their entitlement checks. LOL. "

Tiny says he created more jobs than he destroyed?

He destroyed many families so Bain could chop up companies, and cannabilize their assets.

So he could get more illegal slaves to work for him.

[URL]https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2012/01/12/mitt-romney-has-15-homes/[/URL]

Many many illegal slave nannies gardners cooks maids et al!!

May he rot in Mormon hell!

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/21/us/politics/jimmy-carter-hospice.html[/URL]

"That has absolutely nothing to do with legislating and stewarding a complex national economy to positive results.

Zero.

If anything, leading a company in ways to make its owners and shareholders wealthier is the exact opposite of what it takes to produce Great Recoveries, Great Economic Expansions and Historic Job Gains in a national economy.

Romney as Job Creator Clashes with Bain Record of Job Cuts.

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts[/URL]

Perplexing, isn't it? No, not really.

LOL. Yeah, Trump figured out ways to blow all of his daddy's money and flush all the money anyone was stupid enough to entrust with him down the shitter, stiff all of his creditors, contractors and still managed to buy himself a gold toilet. Surely, he could do the same thing for all those dumb Repub hillbillies sending him major chunks of their entitlement checks. LOL. ".

Tiny says he created more jobs than he destroyed?

He destroyed many families so Bain could chop up companies, and cannabilize their assets.

So he could get more illegal slaves to work for him.

[URL]https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2012/01/12/mitt-romney-has-15-homes/[/URL]

Many many illegal slave nannies gardners cooks maids et al!!

May he rot in Mormon hell!

Maybe Xi can build a compound to protect all the traitors of the US.

The Romneys Flakes Pelosis Bush Bubba Hussein Obama McConnell.

And other scum like Bloomberg Ray Dalio Ken Griffin et al I would say the Bidens.

But several will probably be rotting in Florence soon (if there is any justice in the Universe).

Justice is coming Nov 5 2024.

Inshalla.

[URL]https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?msg=Election%20Countdown&p0=179&ud=2&year=2024&month=11&day=5&hour=0&min=0&sec=0&fromtheme=election[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854722]
Tiny says he created more jobs than he destroyed?

He destroyed many families so Bain could chop up companies, and cannabilize their assets.

So he could get more illegal slaves to work for him.

[URL]https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2012/01/12/mitt-romney-has-15-homes/[/URL]

Many many illegal slave nannies gardners cooks maids et al!!

May he rot in Mormon hell![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854682]But how would he raid the SS trustfund and Fort Knox the federal govt and a country of 330 million are not as easily picked on ala the companies that he raped and pillaged whilst at Bain.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmwzGMmGcJw[/URL] 2:36 and 4:03 are gold.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JzvYUYfICM[/URL] 0:50 is gold.

Lastly if you think hes so smart why is he so fucking poor LOL Romney is a 3 time loser lololololol.

Look at other hedge fund mgrs net worth lolololol.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854579]That has absolutely nothing to do with legislating and stewarding a complex national economy to positive results.

Zero.

If anything, leading a company in ways to make its owners and shareholders wealthier is the exact opposite of what it takes to produce Great Recoveries, Great Economic Expansions and Historic Job Gains in a national economy.

[B]Romney as Job Creator Clashes with Bain Record of Job Cuts[/B]

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts[/URL]

[/QUOTE]Well goodness, I struck quite the chord. My impression from following the forum is that you two legendary mongers met and bonded. And things subsequently unraveled because of your political differences. And now I'm bringing you back together again! I'm happy for you.

The only way you're going to substantially increase GDP and prosperity in the USA is through increases in productivity. In economic terms, productivity is defined as units of output per hour worked. You don't increase productivity the Biden Way, which is also called the French Way, by keeping people in jobs that have become redundant. Or the Trump Way, also called the Biden Way since Biden carried on with his policies, by imposing massive tariffs on toys and textiles and the like in a futile attempt to bring low end manufacturing jobs back to America. You do it the Romney Way, also called the American Way and the Singapore Way, by improving the efficiency and competitiveness of businesses. Yes, this will result overall in people moving from jobs that add less value to jobs that add more value. Fewer people will be employed in low skilled occupations.

An example from years past, it used to take many farmers to supply our country with food. Now far fewer farmers using machinery and technology till much longer plots of land and supply the world with food. And many of the displaced farm workers found better jobs, to replace what they had before. That's the Romney Way!!!

And you're dead wrong about the net jobs. Without Romney, Staples, which employs 75,000 people, probably wouldn't exist. Yes, Bain took over other companies that went bankrupt and companies where it cut jobs. It also took over companies where it added jobs. But they cancel out. Staples added lots more jobs than the puny cuts outlined in your links.

Marquis, I've run out of free National Review articles, so if I don't pick up on something that's why.

Or that's what All Sides ratings of media bias would indicate anyway. A media source that is smack dab in the center would get a "0" rating. The farthest left rating is -6 and the farthest right is +6.

MSNBC gets -5.7. That must be about as biased as you can get. Breitbart gets +5. And Fox gets a fair and balanced 4.

I was kind of surprised with MSNBC this evening. Some guy with a British accent was taking Chris Hays place. He actually spent about 10 minutes truly digging deep into Bob Menendez getting bribed to get Egypt to agree to make his benefactor the sole certifier for meat imports from America . Menendez is a notoriously corrupt Democratic Senator, and he's being prosecuted again.

Of course the other 50 minutes of the show were nonstop anti-Republican propaganda though.

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/msnbc
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/breitbart
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/fox-news-editorial-media-bias

Well goodness, I struck quite the chord. My impression from following the forum is that you two legendary mongers met and bonded. And things subsequently unraveled because of your political differences. And now I'm bringing you back together again! I'm happy for you.

The only way you're going to substantially increase GDP and prosperity in the USA is through increases in productivity. In economic terms, productivity is defined as units of output per hour worked. You don't increase productivity the Biden Way, which is also called the French Way, by keeping people in jobs that have become redundant. Or the Trump Way, also called the Biden Way since Biden carried on with his policies, by imposing massive tariffs on toys and textiles and the like in a futile attempt to bring low end manufacturing jobs back to America. You do it the Romney Way, also called the American Way and the Singapore Way, by improving the efficiency and competitiveness of businesses. Yes, this will result overall in people moving from jobs that add less value to jobs that add more value. Fewer people will be employed in low skilled occupations.

An example from years past, it used to take many farmers to supply our country with food. Now far fewer farmers using machinery and technology till much longer plots of land and supply the world with food. And many of the displaced farm workers found better jobs, to replace what they had before. That's the Romney Way!

And you're dead wrong about the net jobs. Without Romney, Staples, which employs 75,000 people, probably wouldn't exist. Yes, Bain took over other companies that went bankrupt and companies where it cut jobs. It also took over companies where it added jobs. But they cancel out. Staples added lots more jobs than the puny cuts outlined in your links.

Marquis, I've run out of free National Review articles, so if I don't pick up on something that's why.

No unraveling LOL I just love to tease him about his delusional 100% sycophancy towards anything the DNC does.

ET is a good guy, I probably agree with him on more things with him than I disagree.

But since I first met him we strongly disagree on a few things especially my extreme hatred of Bubba and his hideous husband.

I don't give a shit what anyones politics are I could care less I hate the RNC and the DNC.

BTW I must add everything you wrote about the Romney way is morally wrong, and very outdated (aka dead as a doornail).

[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-geopolitical-investments-economic-shift/[/URL]

"Well goodness, I struck quite the chord. My impression from following the forum is that you two legendary mongers met and bonded. And things subsequently unraveled because of your political differences. And now I'm bringing you back together again! I'm happy for you.

The only way you're going to substantially increase GDP and prosperity in the USA is through increases in productivity. In economic terms, productivity is defined as units of output per hour worked. You don't increase productivity the Biden Way, which is also called the French Way, by keeping people in jobs that have become redundant. Or the Trump Way, also called the Biden Way since Biden carried on with his policies, by imposing massive tariffs on toys and textiles and the like in a futile attempt to bring low end manufacturing jobs back to America. You do it the Romney Way, also called the American Way and the Singapore Way, by improving the efficiency and competitiveness of businesses. Yes, this will result overall in people moving from jobs that add less value to jobs that add more value. Fewer people will be employed in low skilled occupations.

An example from years past, it used to take many farmers to supply our country with food. Now far fewer farmers using machinery and technology till much longer plots of land and supply the world with food. And many of the displaced farm workers found better jobs, to replace what they had before. That's the Romney Way!

And you're dead wrong about the net jobs. Without Romney, Staples, which employs 75,000 people, probably wouldn't exist. Yes, Bain took over other companies that went bankrupt and companies where it cut jobs. It also took over companies where it added jobs. But they cancel out. Staples added lots more jobs than the puny cuts outlined in your links.

Marquis, I've run out of free National Review articles, so if I don't pick up on something that's why. ".

Even the Great State of LDS wants nothing to with him.

They have axed him after 1 term, quite the fall from Mormon grace if you ask me.

Hopefully he will self exile deep into Mexican cartel country like his great grandfathers LMAO.

Breitbart? I'm apolitical I hate both parties and subscribe to NYT.

I would say that Brietbart is more objective than anything else I know of online and I read everything across the spectrum from The Nation to Zero Hedge.

They don't have a political agenda or solid position on the spectrum.

The MSM and the left hate them so much not because they are biased but because they cover stories almost all others bury.

They love to disclose what others won't.

All the news that's fit to print? According to fucking whom? The Sulzbergers?

They want you to think they are the arbiters of what's suitable and appropriate to print.

They are just schills for Wall St, propagandists for the 1%ers.

Trying to dictate the overton window.

They just hate Breitbart because they arent playing by their rules.

Or that's what All Sides ratings of media bias would indicate anyway. A media source that is smack dab in the center would get a "0" rating. The farthest left rating is -6 and the farthest right is +6.

MSNBC gets -5. 7. That must be about as biased as you can get. Breitbart gets +5. And Fox gets a fair and balanced 4.

I was kind of surprised with MSNBC this evening. Some guy with a British accent was taking Chris Hays place. He actually spent about 10 minutes truly digging deep into Bob Menendez getting bribed to get Egypt to agree to make his benefactor the sole certifier for meat imports from America. Menendez is a notoriously corrupt Democratic Senator, and he's being prosecuted again.

Of course the other 50 minutes of the show were nonstop anti-Republican propaganda though.

[URL]https://www.allsides.com/news-source/msnbc[/URL]

[URL]https://www.allsides.com/news-source/breitbart[/URL]

[URL]https://www.allsides.com/news-source/fox-news-editorial-media-bias[/URL]

But not my beloved Breitbart.

Case in point.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2023/09/22/nolte-nyts-david-brooks-said-airport-meal-cost-78-restaurant-revealed-humiliating-truth/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854830]Well goodness, I struck quite the chord. My impression from following the forum is that you two legendary mongers met and bonded. And things subsequently unraveled because of your political differences. And now I'm bringing you back together again! I'm happy for you.

The only way you're going to substantially increase GDP and prosperity in the USA is through increases in productivity. In economic terms, productivity is defined as units of output per hour worked. You don't increase productivity the Biden Way, which is also called the French Way, by keeping people in jobs that have become redundant. Or the Trump Way, also called the Biden Way since Biden carried on with his policies, by imposing massive tariffs on toys and textiles and the like in a futile attempt to bring low end manufacturing jobs back to America. You do it the Romney Way, also called the American Way and the Singapore Way, by improving the efficiency and competitiveness of businesses. Yes, this will result overall in people moving from jobs that add less value to jobs that add more value. Fewer people will be employed in low skilled occupations.

An example from years past, it used to take many farmers to supply our country with food. Now far fewer farmers using machinery and technology till much longer plots of land and supply the world with food. And many of the displaced farm workers found better jobs, to replace what they had before. That's the Romney Way!!!

And you're dead wrong about the net jobs. Without Romney, Staples, which employs 75,000 people, probably wouldn't exist. Yes, Bain took over other companies that went bankrupt and companies where it cut jobs. It also took over companies where it added jobs. But they cancel out. Staples added lots more jobs than the puny cuts outlined in your links.

Marquis, I've run out of free National Review articles, so if I don't pick up on something that's why.[/QUOTE]If any Repub or Coven of Repubs could ever have produced something remotely positive like that in the USA economy instead of every Great Depression / Great Recession and Massive Jobs Destruction in the Millions and none of the historic Recoveries, Expansions, Massive Job Gains and Deficit Reduction in the past 100 years, they should have done it.

But they didn't.

The Dems did though. Many times over. Especially Biden.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854836]Or that's what All Sides ratings of media bias would indicate anyway. A media source that is smack dab in the center would get a "0" rating. The farthest left rating is -6 and the farthest right is +6.

MSNBC gets -5.7. That must be about as biased as you can get. Breitbart gets +5. And Fox gets a fair and balanced 4.

I was kind of surprised with MSNBC this evening. Some guy with a British accent was taking Chris Hays place. He actually spent about 10 minutes truly digging deep into Bob Menendez getting bribed to get Egypt to agree to make his benefactor the sole certifier for meat imports from America . Menendez is a notoriously corrupt Democratic Senator, and he's being prosecuted again.

Of course the other 50 minutes of the show were nonstop anti-Republican propaganda though.

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/msnbc
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/breitbart
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/fox-news-editorial-media-bias[/QUOTE]Oh, if MSNBC have a more Left / Liberal Bias and Fux and Breitbart have a more Right / Conservative Bias, then that only confirms the Politico and other site findings that MSNBC is more truthful and legitimately informative than the other two. Probably WAY more truthful, according to your All Sides links.

Makes sense.

This was back in 2017. My God, imagine how much more extreme it has gotten since then:

[B]Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/opinion/facts-have-a-well-known-liberal-bias.html[/URL]

By Paul Krugman.

Dec. 8, 2017.

[QUOTE]There are two central facts about 21st-century U.S. politics. First, we suffer from asymmetric polarization: the Republican Party has become an extremist institution with little respect for traditional norms of any kind. Second, mainstream media still the source of most political information for the great majority of Americans havent been able to come to grips with this reality. Even in the age of Trump, they try desperately to be balanced, which in practice means bending over backwards to say undeserved nice things about Republicans and take undeserved swipes at Democrats.

This dynamic played a crucial role in last years election; its one of the reasons major news organizations devoted more time to Hillary Clintons emails than to all policy issues combined. But it has been going on for years. Its the whole story of Paul Ryans career: journalists trying to be centrists desperately wanted to show their neutrality by praising a Serious, Honest, Conservative, and promoted Ryan into that role even though it was obvious from the beginning that he was a con man.[/QUOTE]You, Marquis and other NYT subscribers can read the rest in the link.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/opinion/us-china-trade.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/11/opinion/china-us-relationship.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/06/opinion/pelosi-taiwan-biden-china-policy.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article[/URL]

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/biggs-migrants-illegal/2023/09/22/id/1135535/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854871]Oh, if MSNBC have a more Left / Liberal Bias and Fux and Breitbart have a more Right / Conservative Bias, then that only confirms the Politico and other site findings that MSNBC is more truthful and legitimately informative than the other two. Probably WAY more truthful, according to your All Sides links.

Makes sense.

This was back in 2017. My God, imagine how much more extreme it has gotten since then:

[B]Facts Have a Well-Known Liberal Bias[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/opinion/facts-have-a-well-known-liberal-bias.html[/URL]

By Paul Krugman.

Dec. 8, 2017.

You, Marquis and other NYT subscribers can read the rest in the link.[/QUOTE]Krugman has a well known Democratic Party bias. He's not a liberal. Nor are you or the Marquis, despite his belief that he's less conservative than I am. Classical and economic liberals don't believe in heavy government intervention in the economy. Both of you distrust free markets and want to prevent business owners from cutting jobs or filing for bankruptcy. You want to grow the federal government and the Marquis wants to cut off trade with China. While I'm happy you're not at each others throats again, I'm also happy you're not dictators of the United States of America, because your ideas are a recipe for a moribund economy.

And yes, facts do have a liberal (classical, economic, and social liberal) bias.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854923][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/opinion/us-china-trade.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/11/opinion/china-us-relationship.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/06/opinion/pelosi-taiwan-biden-china-policy.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article[/URL]

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/biggs-migrants-illegal/2023/09/22/id/1135535/[/URL][/QUOTE]I just scanned the first couple of sentences but yeah, I think I agree with those NYT and Newsmax articles. Nice catch with the $78 hamburger meal and the alcoholism epidemic among NYT journalists too. You're coming around Marquis!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854939]Krugman has a well known Democratic Party bias. He's not a liberal. Nor are you or the Marquis, despite his belief that he's less conservative than I am. Classical and economic liberals don't believe in heavy government intervention in the economy. Both of you distrust free markets and want to prevent employers from cutting jobs or filing for bankruptcy. You want to grow government and the Marquis wants to cut off trade with China. While I'm happy you're not at each others throats again, I'm also happy you're not dictators of the United States of America, because your ideas are a recipe for a moribund economy.[/QUOTE]You can't snow me with your revisionist history contradicting the reality of typical Repub Administration Economic Disasters vs typical Dem Administration Far Superior Results.

I was born before Eisenhower's 1st Recession. I was a bit too young to be fully aware of the downturn in his 2nd Recession. But by the time of his 3rd Recession I was far enough into grade school to read, write, understand much of what was being reported on the evening news and was fully aware of how shitty economic conditions were under Ike. Compounded by the shitty economic conditions in our Ruby Red state anyway.

Which was why the adults in my extended family had to get the hell out of that place and hope for much Happier Days post-Ike. I was even aware that the improvement in all of their job opportunities was as much about Ike being replaced by JFK and his decidedly non Repub policies and stewardship as our escape from that Ruby Red state.

Every Repub Admin result vs Dem Admin result since has repeated the same Crap Repub results vs Far Superior Dem results pattern. Only more so.

So MittWitt's Bain Capital somehow created 750,000 low paying jobs at Staples, did it?

MittWitt's endorsement of and vote for Trump's classic Repub economic policies and stewardship wiped out 26 times that many USA jobs just in the month of April 2020! LOL.

He wasn't Senator yet, but I don't recall MittWitt speaking out against so-called president George W. Bush's classic Repub economic policies and stewardship that eventually wiped out 750,000 and more USA jobs in a single month when those classic Repub economic policies and stewardship came to fruition.

Yeah. Big difference between classic numbskull Repub economic policies for an entire nation and what some team of corporate henchmen can do to make CEOs and corporate board members wealthier.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854862]Or that's what All Sides ratings of media bias would indicate anyway. A media source that is smack dab in the center would get a "0" rating. The farthest left rating is -6 and the farthest right is +6.

MSNBC gets -5. 7. That must be about as biased as you can get. Breitbart gets +5. And Fox gets a fair and balanced 4.

I was kind of surprised with MSNBC this evening. Some guy with a British accent was taking Chris Hays place. He actually spent about 10 minutes truly digging deep into Bob Menendez getting bribed to get Egypt to agree to make his benefactor the sole certifier for meat imports from America. Menendez is a notoriously corrupt Democratic Senator, and he's being prosecuted again.

Of course the other 50 minutes of the show were nonstop anti-Republican propaganda though.[/QUOTE]A media outlet that is smack dab in the middle at 0 would likely only rarely tell the truth or accurately report the facts.

Facts have a well-known Liberal Bias.

Lies have a well-known Winger Bias.

If a media outlet does not even bother to report obviously Liberal Bias truth and facts, what the hell is it reporting?

Only the time of day in its Time Zone?

Well, at least it wouldn't be reporting ridiculously silly lies on practically every subject like those Winger Bias media outlets have to be reporting to get a rating of +4 or, holy shit, a +5!

"Krugman has a well known Democratic Party bias. He's not a liberal. Nor are you or the Marquis, despite his belief that he's less conservative than I am. Classical and economic liberals don't believe in heavy government intervention in the economy. Both of you distrust free markets and want to prevent business owners from cutting jobs or filing for bankruptcy. You want to grow the federal government and the Marquis wants to cut off trade with China. While I'm happy you're not at each others throats again, I'm also happy you're not dictators of the United States of America, because your ideas are a recipe for a moribund economy.

And yes, facts do have a liberal (classical, economic, and social liberal) bias."

Free trade and free markets are euphemisms for slavery, plain and simple.

Wall St loves Asia because it has billions of dirt poor slaves.

No pesky costly environmental protections.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592762/Chinas-latest-fad-breath-fresh-air-Oxygen-stations-set-country-city-dwellers-escape-smog.html[/URL]

No pesky costly labor laws.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract[/URL]

How bad does it have to be to go to the roof and jump.

[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/elcq78/antisuicide_nets_an_alternative_solution_to_the/?rdt=40681[/URL]

I don't remember reading about slaves in America ever killing themselves or even the slave owners.

[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/x7c9bi/what_did_ye_really_mean_by_slavery_was_a_choice/[/URL]

I'm guessing slaves in CCP land have it much much worse worse than in they did in the American south.

I just scanned the first couple of sentences but yeah, I think I agree with those NYT and Newsmax articles. Nice catch with the $78 hamburger meal and the alcoholism epidemic among NYT journalists too. You're coming around Marquis!

Those articles represent thee raison theêtre or ikigai if you will for the NYT.

Everything else is subterfuge and window dressing for the Macro agenda (see articles attach).

Some libertarians like you (Mitt and Flake) have teamed up with the likes of NYT MSNBC WAPO National Review.

To demonize orange man.

For only one purpose.

Cheap slavery from CCP land.

Nothing else matters.

NYT started ME2 and hung Harvey.

They fueled BLM riots.

They were all about gay marriage and now cutting 5 yr olds dicks off.

Its all a BIG CON.

They are whoors that only care about one thing.

Manipulating the lemmings to support whatever they say in support.

Of the MACRO agenda.

Dirt cheap slavery operations in CCP land.

Well orange man fucked that up for them, so they cheated him out in 2020 and they will surely at least try in 2024.

Next stop is India, very ripe for exploitation.

[URL]https://pulitzercenter.org/blog/worlds-toilet-crisis[/URL]

Watch this shit!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854862]Or that's what All Sides ratings of media bias would indicate anyway. A media source that is smack dab in the center would get a "0" rating. The farthest left rating is -6 and the farthest right is +6.

MSNBC gets -5. 7. That must be about as biased as you can get. Breitbart gets +5. And Fox gets a fair and balanced 4.

I was kind of surprised with MSNBC this evening. Some guy with a British accent was taking Chris Hays place. He actually spent about 10 minutes truly digging deep into Bob Menendez getting bribed to get Egypt to agree to make his benefactor the sole certifier for meat imports from America. Menendez is a notoriously corrupt Democratic Senator, and he's being prosecuted again.

Of course the other 50 minutes of the show were nonstop anti-Republican propaganda though.[/QUOTE][B]Breitbart's Astonishing Confession.
The editor of the right-wing news site admitted that its coverage of a major political campaign was dishonest, but the news barely made a blip in conservative media outlets.[/B]

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-ongoing-mistreatment-of-right-leaning-news-consumers/549335/[/URL]

[B]Editor Admits Breitbart Publishes Fake News.
Confession: website tried to destroy credible Roy Moore victim to protect Trump.[/B]

[URL]https://www.theamericanconservative.com/breitbart-fake-news-alex-marlow/[/URL]

As for Fux News Channel's historic $787 Million (and that was a last minute panic settlement!) admission that their entire organization from top to bottom was about protecting and supporting Trump's anti-America. America-hating lies, does anyone even need to post additional links of substantiation for it?

So Tiny's All Sides links and the Winger Media Outlets themselves established the standards; the more Winger Bias the media outlet, +4 or +5, for example, the greater the liars it is, as in the case with proven and admitted liars Fux News Channel and Breitbart.

On the other hand, it stands to reason the further away the media outlet scores from +4 or +5, apparently -5 or better, the greater the truth-teller and fact-based they are, as is the case with MSNBC.

Which, not coincidentally, does mirror the findings of Politico with regard to the far more truthful MSNBC vs the $787 Million proven liar Fux News Channel as well.

A media outlet that is smack dab in the middle at 0 would likely only rarely tell the truth or accurately report the facts.

Facts have a well-known Liberal Bias.

Lies have a well-known Winger Bias.

If a media outlet does not even bother to report obviously Liberal Bias truth and facts, what the hell is it reporting?

Only the time of day in its Time Zone?

Well, at least it wouldn't be reporting ridiculously silly lies on practically every subject like those Winger Bias media outlets have to be reporting to get a rating of +4 or, holy shit, a +5!

CSPAN.

"A media outlet that is smack dab in the middle at 0 would likely only rarely tell the truth or accurately report the facts.

Facts have a well-known Liberal Bias.

Lies have a well-known Winger Bias.

If a media outlet does not even bother to report obviously Liberal Bias truth and facts, what the hell is it reporting?

Only the time of day in its Time Zone?

Well, at least it wouldn't be reporting ridiculously silly lies on practically every subject like those Winger Bias media outlets have to be reporting to get a rating of +4 or, holy shit, a +5!

Why so you can re-spew it lololol.

How about looking for the truth instead.

Thats where my bias lies.

What are your grievances with reality?

The truth will set you free my brother!

Breitbart's Astonishing Confession.

The editor of the right-wing news site admitted that its coverage of a major political campaign was dishonest, but the news barely made a blip in conservative media outlets.

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-ongoing-mistreatment-of-right-leaning-news-consumers/549335/[/URL]

Editor Admits Breitbart Publishes Fake News.

Confession: website tried to destroy credible Roy Moore victim to protect Trump.

[URL]https://www.theamericanconservative.com/breitbart-fake-news-alex-marlow/[/URL]

As for Fux News Channel's historic $787 Million (and that was a last minute panic settlement!) admission that their entire organization from top to bottom was about protecting and supporting Trump's anti-America. America-hating lies, does anyone even need to post additional links of substantiation for it?

So Tiny's All Sides links and the Winger Media Outlets themselves established the standards; the more Winger Bias the media outlet, +4 or +5, for example, the greater the liars it is, as in the case with proven and admitted liars Fux News Channel and Breitbart.

On the other hand, it stands to reason the further away the media outlet scores from +4 or +5, apparently -5 or better, the greater the truth-teller and fact-based they are, as is the case with MSNBC.

Which, not coincidentally, does mirror the findings of Politico with regard to the far more truthful MSNBC vs the $787 Million proven liar Fux News Channel as well. ".

I'm sure even saints lie once in awhile.

More of your false equivalencies and whataboutisms.

Theres a massive difference between lying once in awhile.

And lying every single time one opens ones hole.

Like you Dirty Joe Bubba Hussein Obama Maddow et al.

Lying 99.9999999999999999% like you and Dirty Joe or 0. 000000000000000000001% of the time like Breitbart.

If you're paying them $X and they don't want to kill themselves, its way too much.

If you're paying them X yuan and they jump to their deaths off the roofs regularly you've probably found the sweet spot.

But a small problem.

Small solution= install some nets.

Catch them like fish jumping out of the water.

And throw them right back into the slave factory.

I'm guessing American slaveholders were mostly Libertarians in their economic mindset.

I was reading about Brasil they imported more slaves than anyone, why?

Because they are so close to the west cost of slave land.

They wouldn't take care of them like medical or anything like that.

It was just cheaper to just let them die and buy another one.

Throwaway slaves.

Kinda like trash from CCP land use it once.

You're lucky if you get one solid use out of it.

And throw it away.

Rinse and repeat.

I sure hope they can sentence Dirty Joe before he drops dead.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/23/gop-predicts-biden-organized-crime-ring-received-50m-30m-more-than-shown/[/URL]

Dirty Joe at it again, worst POTUS ever even worse than Hussein Obama.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbJWjo51LoE[/URL]

Check out this bullshit new gig for Clapper and Brennan.

They should both be in prison instead.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854980]Free trade and free markets are euphemisms for slavery, plain and simple.

Wall St loves Asia because it has billions of dirt poor slaves.

No pesky costly environmental protections.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592762/Chinas-latest-fad-breath-fresh-air-Oxygen-stations-set-country-city-dwellers-escape-smog.html[/URL]

No pesky costly labor laws.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract[/URL]

How bad does it have to be to go to the roof and jump.

[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/elcq78/antisuicide_nets_an_alternative_solution_to_the/?rdt=40681[/URL]

I don't remember reading about slaves in America ever killing themselves or even the slave owners.

[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/Kanye/comments/x7c9bi/what_did_ye_really_mean_by_slavery_was_a_choice/[/URL]

[b]I'm guessing slaves in CCP land have it much much worse worse than in they did in the American south. Tiny's comment: LOL[/b]. Really loud.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2854993]Those articles represent thee raison thetre or ikigai if you will for the NYT.

Everything else is subterfuge and window dressing for the Macro agenda (see articles attach).

Some libertarians like you (Mitt and Flake) have teamed up with the likes of NYT MSNBC WAPO National Review.

To demonize orange man.

For only one purpose.

Cheap slavery from CCP land.

Nothing else matters.

NYT started ME2 and hung Harvey.

They fueled BLM riots.

They were all about gay marriage and now cutting 5 yr olds dicks off.

Its all a BIG CON.

They are whoors that only care about one thing.

Manipulating the lemmings to support whatever they say in support.

Of the MACRO agenda.

Dirt cheap slavery operations in CCP land.

Well orange man fucked that up for them, so they cheated him out in 2020 and they will surely at least try in 2024.

Next stop is India, very ripe for exploitation.

[URL]https://pulitzercenter.org/blog/worlds-toilet-crisis[/URL]

Watch this shit![/QUOTE]I have nothing to do with and have never communicated with Mitt Romney, the NYT, MSNBC, or National Review. I did have a short conversation with Jeff Flake. It was an honor to speak with the great man. And I trolled the WAPO message boards for a while, until my teaser subscription rate expired.

Globalism and free markets have lifted billions out of poverty. As to "slavery" in China, apparently you haven't visited the country or you'd know better. Per capita GDP increased from $197 in 1981 before Deng Xiaoping become Chairman to $12,720.

[URL]https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita#text=Data%20 are%20 in%20 current%20 USA, a%202.61%25%20 increase%20 from%202019[/URL].

Adjusted for purchasing power, China's GDP per capita is around $22,000.

China doesn't have cheap labor any longer. If you want that you go to Vietnam, South Asia, Central America, etc.

I've worked in Asia off and on for 25 years, and few Asians would agree with your characterization of their labor forces.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2854953]You can't snow me with your revisionist history contradicting the reality of typical Repub Administration Economic Disasters vs typical Dem Administration Far Superior Results.

I was born before Eisenhower's 1st Recession. I was a bit too young to be fully aware of the downturn in his 2nd Recession. But by the time of his 3rd Recession I was far enough into grade school to read, write, understand much of what was being reported on the evening news and was fully aware of how shitty economic conditions were under Ike. Compounded by the shitty economic conditions in our Ruby Red state anyway.

Which was why the adults in my extended family had to get the hell out of that place and hope for much Happier Days post-Ike. I was even aware that the improvement in all of their job opportunities was as much about Ike being replaced by JFK and his decidedly non Repub policies and stewardship as our escape from that Ruby Red state.

Every Repub Admin result vs Dem Admin result since has repeated the same Crap Repub results vs Far Superior Dem results pattern. Only more so.

So MittWitt's Bain Capital somehow created 750,000 low paying jobs at Staples, did it?

MittWitt's endorsement of and vote for Trump's classic Repub economic policies and stewardship wiped out 26 times that many USA jobs just in the month of April 2020! LOL.

He wasn't Senator yet, but I don't recall MittWitt speaking out against so-called president George W. Bush's classic Repub economic policies and stewardship that eventually wiped out 750,000 and more USA jobs in a single month when those classic Repub economic policies and stewardship came to fruition.

Yeah. Big difference between classic numbskull Repub economic policies for an entire nation and what some team of corporate henchmen can do to make CEOs and corporate board members wealthier.[/QUOTE]Where did I say anything about Republicans? We haven't had a government that comports with my ideal during our lifetimes. The closest we came was during Bill Clinton's second term, when Republicans controlled Congress. Reagan and Tip O'Neill didn't do a bad job either.

Unless the scum pull off cheating again.

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/no-mistake-absolutely-possible-trump-131701170.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2855096]Where did I say anything about Republicans? We haven't had a government that comports with my ideal during our lifetimes. The closest we came was during [b]Bill Clinton's second term, when Republicans controlled Congress.[/b] [B]Reagan[/b] and Tip O'Neill [b]didn't do a bad job either.[/b][/QUOTE]As is shown everywhere in the data and historical results, the USA economy was already recovering and rebounding from the Reagan / Bush1 Repub Recessions doldrums, magnificently expanding, creating and strengthening businesses and adding jobs well before Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing Repubs took control of Congress and had the power to put a damper on the potential even better positive results with their counterproductive government shutdowns meant to destroy the historic Clinton / Dem economy triggered by brilliant Dem Demand-Side, anti-Reaganomics, anti-Repub Supply-Side policies and legislation passed in 1993 without a single Repub vote.

Unless sniffing around Clinton's dick and balls to find out where they'd been contributed something of value to the USA economy not yet fully examined.

Some highlights are mine:

[B]Growth Surprises in 1994.
Jan. 1, 1995[/B]

[URL]https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/growth-surprises-in-1994/[/URL]

[QUOTE][b]The U.S. economy has had a magnificent year, with growth nearly a third higher and inflation just a bit lower than had been expected last January. [/b]Meanwhile, U.S. and global financial markets have had a terrible year, with interest rates rising so fast that bond prices have fallen by nearly 20 percent while stock prices have slipped by about 5 percent.

Obviously, the gap has widened[b] in favor of the real economy, where goods are produced, against the financial markets, where claims on future production are priced. Groans in New York, where financial markets are located, contrast sharply with jubilation in the Midwest, where real goods are produced.[/b]
...
[B]U.S. Economic Date: The Big Surprises of 1994[/b]

In January 1994, the consensus of growth forecasts for the United States for the coming year was a 3 percent increase in the gross domestic product. Two-thirds of the forecasts for growth ranged from 2.7 to 3.3 percent. Just eleven months later, by December 1994, the forecast for 1994 growth had been increased to 4.0 percent, a 33 percent increase in the projected growth rate, representing an extra $60 billion worth of goods and services. Just the error in the growth of U.S. GDP for 1994 was equal to more than half the gross domestic product of Denmark.

The 1994 U.S. growth surprise has been driven by unexpectedly strong household spending on durable goods and unexpectedly strong business spending on capital goods. In January, consumption spending was expected to rise at about 3 percent. The actual figure will probably be closer to 3.5 percent. The January forecast for growth of business investment was 8.2 percent. The actual figure will probably be closer to 14 percent.

The surge in household spending on durable goods meant that households wanted to increase their holdings of appliances and automobiles and other such real assets that provide a stream of services over time. Spending on housing, another such asset, has been above the expected level for most of 1994, despite sharply higher interest rates.

Another form of business investment that has been especially strong during 1994 has been business investment in inventories of unsold goods. Of course, much inventory investment has been driven by stronger than expected demand growth. As demand rises relative to what businesses predict, inventories are run down and the ability to provide customers with goods impaired. If businesses expect sales growth to continue and if they expect prices to be firm or to rise while inventory finance costs are steady, business will wish to increase their inventory holdings.

Strong inventory investment during the second quarter of 1994 led many analysts to expect a slowdown in the third quarter because the inventory accumulation was judged to be unwanted, because of unexpectedly slow sales growth. As it turned out, inventory investment during the third quarter was nearly as large as that of the second quarter and still insufficient to keep inventories rising as rapidly as sales were increasing.

Beyond that, inventories at the wholesale and intermediate levels provided their owners with an extra inflation bonus. At the wholesale level, prices of intermediate and crude goods rose rapidly enough to reward companies with gains on their inventory positions. Some analysts have estimated that one-third to one-half of third-quarter corporate profits was related to the rising value of inventories of raw materials and intermediate goods.

The unexpected acceleration of demand growth required firms to increase production schedules. The January forecast of a 4 percent growth rate of industrial production was sharply exceeded with year-over-year industrial production rising at 6.6 percent by November. The extra production required increased employment of labor. Growth in payroll employment has also been stronger than expected, while the unemployment rate has dropped to 5.6 percent as of November, well below the expected level for year-end of around 6 percent.

[B]During the second half of 1994, the U.S. expansion has gained momentum instead of losing it as had been forecast earlier. Strong demand growth, an increase in hiring, and resultant more rapid growth in incomes have created a self-reinforcing expansion. Higher income growth increases demand further, which in turn requires more production and more employment of labor and once again generates more income.[/b][/QUOTE]In short, the Great Clinton / Dem Economy was already well on its way, clearly establishing a nearly undefeatable upward and positive trajectory, although Grinbitch and his Do Nothing Repubs sure as hell tried, LONG before the 1994 Midterm elections.

Since then as now we have see you and other pro-Repub revisionist historians supporting that traditional Repub stunt of them rushing in after Dems have shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to produce terrific economic results and outcomes to claim utterly and thoroughly undeserved credit for it. LOL. Seen them do it many, many, many times. They get a lot of help pulling off that deceitful and dishonest Repub stunt from typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media too. As we all know.

And here is another look back at Reagan's Great Repub Recession during Bush2's Great Repub Recession:

[B]Reagans Recession.
Dec. 14, 2010[/B]

[URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/2010/12/14/reagans-recession/[/URL]

[QUOTE]Prior to the current recession, the deepest post-World War II economic downturn occurred in the early 1980s. According to the accepted arbiter of the economys ups and downs, the National Bureau for Economic Research, a brief recession in 1980 lasting only six months and a short period of growth, were followed by a sustained recession from July 1981 to November 1982. The unemployment rate did not fall below 6%, however, until September 1987.

In the spring of 1981, shortly before the onset of the painful recession, most Americans were optimistic about their economic future. A Gallup survey at the time found that 48% of the public believed the financial position of their household would be better in the next 12 months. Another 35% believed it would stay the same, while only 15% thought it would get worse. The public also smiled on the newly elected president. In a May poll, nearly half of Americans said the Reagan administrations economic policies would make their familys financial situation much better (8%) or somewhat better (41%). Just 37% said Reagans policies would make their family finances worse.

A year later, in September 1982, with the unemployment rate at 10.1%, most Americans were far from pleased with the state of the economy. A 54%-majority said Reagans policies had made their personal financial situation worse; just 34% said the policies had made their situation better. But even as the economy reached its nadir, the public did not lose all confidence in Reagan: In an October survey, a 40%-plurality said that over the long run the presidents policies would make their economic situation better, while a third said they would make things worse and 15% volunteered they would stay the same.
....
As Andrew Kohut noted in a special to the New York Times, the rising unemployment paralleled a rise in disapproval of Reagans job performance. By the summer of 1982, only 42% of Americans approved of the president. Reagans approval would eventually hit a low of 35% early in 1983. In September 1982, when the public was asked asked by Gallup whether Reagan was correct to argue that his economic program needed more time or that Democrats were right in asserting that budget deficits and high unemployment were signs he had failed, half of Americans sided with the Democrats while 43% agreed with the president. A year and a half into his presidency, only 36% of Americans wanted Reagan to run for reelection at the end of his first term, while 51% said they would rather he sit the election out. Of course, the economy eventually did rebound, and so did Reagans poll numbers.[/QUOTE]

"I have nothing to do with and have never communicated with Mitt Romney, the NYT, MSNBC, or National Review. I did have a short conversation with Jeff Flake. It was an honor to speak with the great man. And I trolled the WAPO message boards for a while, until my teaser subscription rate expired.

Globalism and free markets have lifted billions out of poverty. As to "slavery" in China, apparently you haven't visited the country or you'd know better. Per capita GDP increased from $197 in 1981 before Deng Xiaoping become Chairman to $12,720.

[URL]https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita[/URL]#text=Data%20 are%20 in%20 current%20 USA, a%202.61%25%20 increase%20 from%202019.

Adjusted for purchasing power, China's GDP per capita is around $22,000.

China doesn't have cheap labor any longer. If you want that you go to Vietnam, South Asia, Central America, etc.

I've worked in Asia off and on for 25 years, and few Asians would agree with your characterization of their labor forces. ".

You sound like you're sugar coating it a bit LOL.

You didn't mention the Foxcon suicides or their brilliant solution either the nets, if that isn't slavery what is?

There might be a tad of hyperbole in my characterizations but not much.

I've seen my share of Asia and as a generalization think its a huge toilet.

The Philippines Cambodia Thailand Indonesia (Japan isn't a toilet per se).

I'm pretty sure that ppp number you used is misleading.

I think they have some money concentrated on the cities bordering the coast of the West Philippines Sea.

The rest of the 1. 4 billion living inland are mostly much poorer.

If you take a shit load of money and average it out by 1. 4 billion people its misleading.

There you go, hanging around ET too much using stats to distort the truth of the matter.

USA ppp is $65000 do you know how many people in the country don't make anything near 65000, way too many.

They also have huge income disparities which your figures don't show.

You mention it has pulled billions out of poverty? Billions? Doubtful, now it sounds like you're stealing NYT talking points.

But nonetheless are you suggesting you gave a shit more about the well being of the 3rd world than your fellow Americans? If so, you ought to be very ashamed of yourself.

Here is the "Parasites dilemma" slavery was outlawed with the 13th amend in 1865.

So how do they get more slaves?

Import more here.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/biggs-migrants-illegal/2023/09/22/id/1135535/[/URL] (Andy Biggs the Good Mormon, Biggs for President 2028).

Or export all the jobs to 3rd world shitholes ie CCPland India SEA et al.

Asia aka the Globes source for slave labor.

But not to worry Dirty Joe is trying to even the score.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/23/us/tyson-perdue-child-labor.html[/URL]

President Dick Cheney: "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter".

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/09/24/trump-scores-10-point-lead-over-biden-poll/?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp[/URL]

How long before Dirty Joe is indicted.

Or he drops out to spend more time with his "family" LMAO "the junkie in Florence Co".

Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/09/24/trump-scores-10-point-lead-over-biden-poll/?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp[/URL]

"As is shown everywhere in the data and historical results, the USA economy was already recovering and rebounding from the Reagan / Bush1 Repub Recessions doldrums, magnificently expanding, creating and strengthening businesses and adding jobs well before Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing Repubs took control of Congress and had the power to put a damper on the potential even better positive results with their counterproductive government shutdowns meant to destroy the historic Clinton / Dem economy triggered by brilliant Dem Demand-Side, anti-Reaganomics, anti-Repub Supply-Side policies and legislation passed in 1993 without a single Repub vote.

Unless sniffing around Clinton's dick and balls to find out where they'd been contributed something of value to the USA economy not yet fully examined.

Some highlights are mine:

Growth Surprises in 1994.

Jan. 1, 1995.

[URL]https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/growth-surprises-in-1994/[/URL]

In short, the Great Clinton / Dem Economy was already well on its way, clearly establishing a nearly undefeatable upward and positive trajectory, although Grinbitch and his Do Nothing Repubs sure as hell tried, LONG before the 1994 Midterm elections.

Since then as now we have see you and other pro-Repub revisionist historians supporting that traditional Repub stunt of them rushing in after Dems have shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to produce terrific economic results and outcomes to claim utterly and thoroughly undeserved credit for it. LOL. Seen them do it many, many, many times. They get a lot of help pulling off that deceitful and dishonest Repub stunt from typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media too. As we all know.

And here is another look back at Reagan's Great Repub Recession during Bush2's Great Repub Recession:

Reagans Recession.

Dec. 14,2010.

[URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/2010/12/14/reagans-recession/[/URL]

Written as a gift for you ET.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/what-trumps-big-lead-in-the-newest-poll-means/[/URL]

It's difficult to find a more current assessment.

But the pattern in any Google Search I have made on the topic puts Fux News clearly in the lead among Fake News Liars, MSNBC far behind in 2nd Place and CNN the least Fake News Liar of those three:

[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2015/jan/27/msnbc-fox-cnn-move-needle-our-truth-o-meter-scorec/[/URL]

That being the case, it is then worth seeing what the Best Truth-Teller of the 3 has to say about Fux News quite recently:

Analysis: Fox News has been exposed as a dishonest organization terrified of its own audience.

February 17,2023.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/business/fox-news-dominion-lies/index.html[/URL]

They never give up.

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/donald-trump-polls-fox-news/2023/09/23/id/1135629/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2854830]Well goodness, I struck quite the chord. My impression from following the forum is that you two legendary mongers met and bonded. And things subsequently unraveled because of your political differences. And now I'm bringing you back together again! I'm happy for you.

The only way you're going to substantially increase GDP and prosperity in the USA is through increases in productivity. In economic terms, productivity is defined as units of output per hour worked. You don't increase productivity the Biden Way, which is also called the French Way, by keeping people in jobs that have become redundant. Or the Trump Way, also called the Biden Way since Biden carried on with his policies, by imposing massive tariffs on toys and textiles and the like in a futile attempt to bring low end manufacturing jobs back to America. You do it the Romney Way, also called the American Way and the Singapore Way, by improving the efficiency and competitiveness of businesses. Yes, this will result overall in people moving from jobs that add less value to jobs that add more value. Fewer people will be employed in low skilled occupations. .[/QUOTE]I would also say your impression about anything "unraveling" between Marquis and I is mistaken.

Oh, but now I see in your post that a typo between my thumb and smartphone keyboard led me to way over praise MittWitt's jobs results re Staples. Not only did his Bain Capital not create 750,000 jobs at that company, as I erroneously misstated based on my own typo in a reply, he didn't even create the 75,000 that you said were employed there.

Therefore, instead of MittWitt's Repub Party's favorite economic policies and stewardship wiping out a mere 26 times that many USA jobs just in April 2020 under Trump and at least that many in each of more than one month in GW Bush's Great Repub Recession, they actually wiped out [B]267 Times[/B] and [B]10 Times[/B] that many USA jobs, respectively. My bad based on my own typo.

And that was thanks to classic Repub Party economic policy and stewardship that MittWitt not only would and did applaud and vote for, but most certainly would have promoted, passed and stewarded to that national economy result himself if given the same circumstances, conditions and political leverage to produce such a classic Repub result that Trump and GW Bush had.

As would Reagan. As would GHW Bush. As would Nixon. As would Ford. As would Ike. As would Hoover. As would Coolidge. As would all Repubs of at least the past 100 years if only given the same set of opportunities to produce such Repub crap economic results.

That's just how Repubs roll at the national level, what they do for a living, the only thing they do for a living, the only thing they know how to do, the only thing they want to know how to do and the only thing they want to do economically.

"I have nothing to do with and have never communicated with Mitt Romney, the NYT, MSNBC, or National Review. I did have a short conversation with Jeff Flake. It was an honor to speak with the great man. And I trolled the WAPO message boards for a while, until my teaser subscription rate expired.

Globalism and free markets have lifted billions out of poverty. As to "slavery" in China, apparently you haven't visited the country or you'd know better. Per capita GDP increased from $197 in 1981 before Deng Xiaoping become Chairman to $12,720.

[URL]https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita[/URL]#text=Data%20 are%20 in%20 current%20 USA, a%202.61%25%20 increase%20 from%202019.

Adjusted for purchasing power, China's GDP per capita is around $22,000.

China doesn't have cheap labor any longer. If you want that you go to Vietnam, South Asia, Central America, etc.

I've worked in Asia off and on for 25 years, and few Asians would agree with your characterization of their labor forces. "

Nobody pulled anyone out of poverty.

Wall St just transferred the wealth from the US to mainland CCP land.

And imported their poverty here.

They lowered our standard of living and raised CCP lands.

[URL]https://www.oecd.org/forum/asia-challenges.htm[/URL]

The region remains home to two-thirds of the world's poor, with more than 800 million Asians still living on less than $1. 25 a day and 1. 7 billion surviving on less than $2 a day. Poverty reduction remains a daunting task!!

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/09/22/bidens-new-york-illegal-migrants-cut-wages-prior-illegals/[/URL]

Hunger Games 2023 Dirty Joes NYC edition.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2855351]Written as a gift for you ET.

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/what-trumps-big-lead-in-the-newest-poll-means/[/URL][/QUOTE][QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2855248][URL]https://nypost.com/2023/09/24/trump-scores-10-point-lead-over-biden-poll/?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp[/URL]

How long before Dirty Joe is indicted.

Or he drops out to spend more time with his "family" LMAO "the junkie in Florence Co".

Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/09/24/trump-scores-10-point-lead-over-biden-poll/?utm_source=gmail&utm_campaign=android_nyp[/URL][/QUOTE]Thanks for the gift.

While it is interesting to see that passionate Repubs are rushing to their phones and online to tell the world how much they love their lord and master at Trump's time of greatest need for Repub hillbilly defense fund donations from their entitlement checks, there have actually been other "polls" being taken for the last several months that might be a bit more telling about Biden and his Dem Party's prospects going forward.

Maybe Newsmax and Breitbart haven't been mentioning them much lately:

[B]Democrats have been winning big in special elections.
That could bode well for them in the 2024 election.[/B]

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-winning-big-special-elections/story?id=103315703[/URL]

[B]Democrats keep winning special elections in battleground states.[/B]

[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4213712-democrats-keep-winning-special-elections-in-battleground-states/[/URL]

[B]Democrats are on a special election winning streak.[/B]

[URL]https://www.axios.com/2023/09/21/democrats-special-elections-winning-streak[/URL]

[B]Democrats Are on a Winning Streak That Could Transform Our Politics.
Recent victories in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire special elections suggest Democrats can score huge wins in the fight to control state legislatures. That changes everything.[/B]

[URL]https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democrats-state-legislature-victories/[/URL]

Looks like those passionate Repubs are not showing up nearly as much as passionate Dems have been for these special elections that typically engender more Repub turnout.

Yes, it has been well documented that when gas prices increase, Biden's approval numbers decrease. As is the case right now. It is pretty much as simple as that.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the electorate blames Biden or the Dems for gas price inflation. Or for any inflation, really. After all, they didn't punish Biden and the Dems for higher and scarier inflation during the 2022 midterms, right? No, if anything, the electorate appeared to have blamed Trump's Party for inflation and a slew of other problems when they entered the voting booths last year.

And they are still blaming them this year. In the voting booth "polls", I mean.

Besides, maybe a miracle will happen and USA oil reserves will flood the market and help to lower gas prices sometime soon and cause Biden's approval numbers to greatly improve. Or early next year. Or around August, September, October and Novrmber of next year.

Miracles do happen, you know.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2855180]As is shown everywhere in the data and historical results, the USA economy was already recovering and rebounding from the Reagan / Bush1 Repub Recessions doldrums, magnificently expanding, creating and strengthening businesses and adding jobs well before Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing Repubs took control of Congress and had the power to put a damper on the potential even better positive results with their counterproductive government shutdowns meant to destroy the historic Clinton / Dem economy triggered by brilliant Dem Demand-Side, anti-Reaganomics, anti-Repub Supply-Side policies and legislation passed in 1993 without a single Repub vote.

Unless sniffing around Clinton's dick and balls to find out where they'd been contributed something of value to the USA economy not yet fully examined.

Some highlights are mine:

[B]Growth Surprises in 1994.
Jan. 1, 1995[/B]

[URL]https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/growth-surprises-in-1994/[/URL]

In short, the Great Clinton / Dem Economy was already well on its way, clearly establishing a nearly undefeatable upward and positive trajectory, although Grinbitch and his Do Nothing Repubs sure as hell tried, LONG before the 1994 Midterm elections.

Since then as now we have see you and other pro-Repub revisionist historians supporting that traditional Repub stunt of them rushing in after Dems have shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to produce terrific economic results and outcomes to claim utterly and thoroughly undeserved credit for it. LOL. Seen them do it many, many, many times. They get a lot of help pulling off that deceitful and dishonest Repub stunt from typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media too. As we all know.

And here is another look back at Reagan's Great Repub Recession during Bush2's Great Repub Recession:

[B]Reagans Recession.
Dec. 14, 2010[/B]

[URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/2010/12/14/reagans-recession/[/URL][/QUOTE]I doubt boom times in 1994 had much to do with Bill Clinton. And I know the "Reagan Recession" was mostly the result of tight monetary policy by Paul Volcker et al. High real interest rates were what was required to cure high inflation.

You only look at the party of the president in explaining GDP growth and employment, and that doesn't have a lot to do with either. One exception, yes, a president and Congress can dump a lot of stimulus into the economy and boost GDP growth in the short term. And if we're in a recession, that makes sense. But our perennially growing deficits and stimulus when we don't need it, like Biden's American Rescue Plan, is growing our national debt to unsustainable levels.

I look at the longer term, and that's why I praise Reagan, Clinton after 1994, and Congress during the periods they served.

Clinton, Gingrich, et al balanced the budget, reformed welfare, passed NAFTA, and lowered the capital gains tax rate to 20%. Unfortunately future administrations undid a lot of what they accomplished.

Reagan, O'Neill (Democratic House Speaker) et al set the stage for a balanced budget by helping to end the cold war. The USSR couldn't keep up with us on defense expenditures and because of that and other reasons threw in the towel. Democracy came to much of eastern Europe. Defense expenditures could come way down as a % of GDP during the Clinton administration, paving the way for lower deficits and even budget surpluses. I also give Reagan, O'Neil and others credit for lowering the maximum tax rate from the ridiculous level of 70%, and making Social Security and Medicare solvent again. I say the later, even though I much prefer a true retirement and health savings system like what Singapore has to our system.

Since Clinton, the only significant positive legislative change related to the economy was lowering the total (federal + state) corporate tax rate from the highest in the developed world to the middle of the pack.

Your refrain as usual will be we need higher taxes. That doesn't appeal to me because the most prosperous decent-sized developed countries, that don't have the advantage of massive oil and gas production, all have small governments (in terms of government revenues or expenditures as a % of GDP), and high taxes are associated with larger governments. Also philosophically I view exorbitant taxation as akin to theft, and believe our federal government is inefficient when it spends our money.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2855379]

[b]Bull shit[/b]

Nobody pulled anyone out of poverty.

Wall St just transferred the wealth from the US to mainland CCP land.

And imported their poverty here.

They lowered our standard of living and raised CCP lands.

[URL]https://www.oecd.org/forum/asia-challenges.htm[/URL]

The region remains home to two-thirds of the world's poor, with more than 800 million Asians still living on less than $1. 25 a day and 1. 7 billion surviving on less than $2 a day. Poverty reduction remains a daunting task!!

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/09/22/bidens-new-york-illegal-migrants-cut-wages-prior-illegals/[/URL]

Hunger Games 2023 Dirty Joes NYC edition.[/QUOTE]Free trade has made both the USA and the developing world more prosperous. We may have a smaller % of the pie, but the pie has gotten larger.

You earlier criticized me for wanting to see Asians make a living wage, because you incorrectly believe that comes at the expense of the American worker. Now you're saying 1. 7 billion Asians survive on less than $2 a day. Do you want them to stay poor? Do you think American consumers should have to pay 3 X what they're paying now for televisions and clothes?

Assembling electronic components, making clothes and a lot of other low end factory work is painstaking and tedious. Americans would rather do something else, although many Asians appreciate the opportunity to make enough money to feed themselves and their families. I believe the same applies to much of the work done by foreigners in the USA, although I don't believe they should be here illegally. A guest worker program makes more sense. The unemployment rate is 3. 6%, for goodness sake.

I guess you and Tooms are fans of big government spending on industrial policy like that authorized by Biden's Inflation Reduction Act and Chips and Science Act. And of high tariffs, like the ones imposed by Trump and continued by Biden. Well, they don't make sense. The best results come from spending money instead on basic research and development, and from opening foreign markets to American goods. And basic common sense policies, like the corporate tax system imposed by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (e.g. a competitive corporate tax rate and the GILTI tax, which encourages investment in the USA). You guys might borrow a bit of the time you spend watching MSNBC and reading Breitbart and look at this.

[URL]https://www.piie.com/sites/default/files/documents/piieb21-5.pdf[/URL]

Tooms and Marquis, The shit has hit the fan at work so I won't have time to post much for a while.

Marquis, I'm giving you a gift before I leave.

[URL]https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/fd_1023_obtained_by_senator_grassley_-_biden.pdf[/URL]

Before I read it, I figured Joe Biden didn't have a lot to do with getting the Ukrainian prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, fired, and he personally didn't receive payoffs from Burisma. Now I'm not so sure. The link is a an excerpt from an FBI FD-1023 report, describing interviews with a confidential informant, "CHS. " CHS appears to be a bush-league investment banker who specializes in oil and gas exploration & production. Zlochevsky is the owner of Burisma. Ostapenko was Burisma's chief financial officer. Shokin, again, was the prosecutor general of Ukraine, who allegedly was investigating Burisma.

While the whole FBI report is worth reading, here's an excerpt to whet your appetite,

"Zlocehvsky asked CHS and/or Ostapenko if they read the recent news reports about the investigations into the Bidens and Burisma, and Zlochevsky jokingly asked CHS if CHS was an "oracle" (due to CHS's prior advice that Zlochevsky should not pay the Bidens and instead hire an attorney to ligitgate the allegations concerning Shokin's investigation.) CHS mentioned Zlochevsky might have difficulty explaining suspicious wire transfers that may evidence any (illicit) payments to the Bidens. Zlochevsky responded he did not send funds directly to the "Big Guy" (which CHS understood was a reference to Joe Biden). CHS asked Zlochevsky how many companies/bank accounts Zlochevsky controls; Zlochevsky responded it would take them (investigators) 10 years to find the records (i.e. illicit payments to Joe Biden)."

Another highlight is when Zlochevsky says his dog is smarter than Hunter Biden, even though Zlochevsky was counting on Hunter to influence the U.S. government for various purposes.

Tooms, I don't have a gift for you right now, but am sure I'll come across something before long and will check back in to give it to you.

Sorry Tooms, before you spend a lot of time correcting me -- I should have qualified that to say "structural change that benefited us in the long term. ".

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2855525]Since Clinton, the only significant positive legislative change related to the economy was lowering the total (federal + state) corporate tax rate from the highest in the developed world to the middle of the pack.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2855525]I doubt boom times in 1994 had much to do with Bill Clinton. And I know the "Reagan Recession" was mostly the result of tight monetary policy by Paul Volcker et al. High real interest rates were what was required to cure high inflation.

You only look at the party of the president in explaining GDP growth and employment, and that doesn't have a lot to do with either. One exception, yes, a president and Congress can dump a lot of stimulus into the economy and boost GDP growth in the short term. And if we're in a recession, that makes sense. But our perennially growing deficits and stimulus when we don't need it, like Biden's American Rescue Plan, is growing our national debt to unsustainable levels.

I look at the longer term, and that's why I praise Reagan, Clinton after 1994, and Congress during the periods they served.

Clinton, Gingrich, et al balanced the budget, reformed welfare, passed NAFTA, and lowered the capital gains tax rate to 20%. Unfortunately future administrations undid a lot of what they accomplished.

Reagan, O'Neill (Democratic House Speaker) et al set the stage for a balanced budget by helping to end the cold war. The USSR couldn't keep up with us on defense expenditures and because of that and other reasons threw in the towel. Democracy came to much of eastern Europe. Defense expenditures could come way down as a % of GDP during the Clinton administration, paving the way for lower deficits and even budget surpluses. I also give Reagan, O'Neil and others credit for lowering the maximum tax rate from the ridiculous level of 70%, and making Social Security and Medicare solvent again. I say the later, even though I much prefer a true retirement and health savings system like what Singapore has to our system.

Since Clinton, the only significant positive legislative change related to the economy was lowering the total (federal + state) corporate tax rate from the highest in the developed world to the middle of the pack.

Your refrain as usual will be we need higher taxes. That doesn't appeal to me because the most prosperous decent-sized developed countries, that don't have the advantage of massive oil and gas production, all have small governments (in terms of government revenues or expenditures as a % of GDP), and high taxes are associated with larger governments. Also philosophically I view exorbitant taxation as akin to theft, and believe our federal government is inefficient when it spends our money.[/QUOTE]You seem to be confusing "process" with "result. ".

Tax cuts, tax increases, stimulus legislation, regulation reform, etc, etc, etc, which both Repubs and Dems do, are all part of a "process" and are most definitely not in and of themselves a "result".

Repubs can cut taxes from now until doomsday and they can produce the same crap "results" as Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, where the "result" two years later right up until Trump's other economic stewardship created Trump's Pandemic was fewer jobs created with it than without it and a projected infinity of $1. 5 Trillion net added to the deficit every 10 years until a Dem finally has enough breathing room from attending to Repub Economic Disasters to put a blessed end to it if those tax cuts are for the wrong people for the wrong reason at the wrong time.

The Calvin Coolige tax cuts come to mind. And the Reagan tax cuts. And the GW Bush tax cuts. And absolutely positively the Trump tax cuts.

No legislation in and of itself is a "result" worth celebrating, neither a tax cut nor a tax increase, unless the "result" is the national economy is much better off with it than without it. Haven't seen a Repub-proposed, fought for and passed.

Economic legislation or tax policy accomplish that little trick yet.

By stark contrast, virtually every major Dem Economic legislation, especially the ones that did not garner a single Repub vote, produced historically positive "results. ".

Case in point:

[B]Tax Reform Act Of 1993: Meaning, History, Impact[/B]

[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax-reform-act-of-1993.asp[/URL]

[QUOTE]The Tax Reform Act of 1993 was a federal law passed by the 103rd Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton. The Act aimed to cut the federal deficit through increased taxes and reduced spending. It is also known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.
1

The Tax Reform Act of 1993 was one of Clinton's first tax packages, introducing significant changes in tax law for individuals and businesses. Clinton sought a mix of tax increases and spending reductions that would allow him to achieve the first balanced budget since 1969.[/QUOTE]Read on to see how and why that legislation, which every Repub in Congress refused to vote Yes for because it so violated their continually spectacularly failed Supply-Side / Trickle-Down idiocy, established and produced the historic jobs creation, pro business, economic expansion, deficit reduction and balanced budget "results" described in the link in one of my previous posts LONG LONG LONG before Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing But Sniff Around Clinton's Dick and Balls Repubs took control of the House in January 1995.

This Democrat does live porno sessions for $$ [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg2fxYcZTZA[/URL].

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/our-system-collapsing-real-time-tucker-carlson-gives-bombshell-interview[/URL]

"Free trade has made both the USA and the developing world more prosperous. We may have a smaller % of the pie, but the pie has gotten larger.

You earlier criticized me for wanting to see Asians make a living wage, because you incorrectly believe that comes at the expense of the American worker. Now you're saying 1.7 billion Asians survive on less than $2 a day. Do you want them to stay poor? Do you think American consumers should have to pay 3 X what they're paying now for televisions and clothes?

Assembling electronic components, making clothes and a lot of other low end factory work is painstaking and tedious. Americans would rather do something else, although many Asians appreciate the opportunity to make enough money to feed themselves and their families. I believe the same applies to much of the work done by foreigners in the USA, although I don't believe they should be here illegally. A guest worker program makes more sense. The unemployment rate is 3.6%, for goodness sake.

I guess you and Tooms are fans of big government spending on industrial policy like that authorized by Biden's Inflation Reduction Act and Chips and Science Act. And of high tariffs, like the ones imposed by Trump and continued by Biden. Well, they don't make sense. The best results come from spending money instead on basic research and development, and from opening foreign markets to American goods. And basic common sense policies, like the corporate tax system imposed by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (e. G. A competitive corporate tax rate and the GILTI tax, which encourages investment in the USA). You guys might borrow a bit of the time you spend watching MSNBC and reading Breitbart and look at this.

[URL]https://www.piie.com/sites/default/files/documents/piieb21-5.pdf[/URL]".

Instead of filling the worlds landfills with complete trash sold by CCPland.

I would gladly pay 3 x for something that last more than 2 or 3 uses, as I'm sure 99% of the planet would.

I just bought some new underwear, washed them 1 x and the seams were separating, a complete fucking sham!!

This Democrat does live porno sessions for $$ [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg2fxYcZTZA[/URL].

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/joe-biden-is-a-dud/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/09/22/bidens-new-york-illegal-migrants-cut-wages-prior-illegals/[/URL]

"Thanks for the gift.

While it is interesting to see that passionate Repubs are rushing to their phones and online to tell the world how much they love their lord and master at Trump's time of greatest need for Repub hillbilly defense fund donations from their entitlement checks, there have actually been other "polls" being taken for the last several months that might be a bit more telling about Biden and his Dem Party's prospects going forward.

Maybe Newsmax and Breitbart haven't been mentioning them much lately:

Democrats have been winning big in special elections.

That could bode well for them in the 2024 election.

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-winning-big-special-elections/story?id=103315703[/URL]

Democrats keep winning special elections in battleground states.

[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4213712-democrats-keep-winning-special-elections-in-battleground-states/[/URL]

Democrats are on a special election winning streak.

[URL]https://www.axios.com/2023/09/21/democrats-special-elections-winning-streak[/URL]

Democrats Are on a Winning Streak That Could Transform Our Politics.

Recent victories in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire special elections suggest Democrats can score huge wins in the fight to control state legislatures. That changes everything.

[URL]https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democrats-state-legislature-victories/[/URL]

Looks like those passionate Repubs are not showing up nearly as much as passionate Dems have been for these special elections that typically engender more Repub turnout.

Yes, it has been well documented that when gas prices increase, Biden's approval numbers decrease. As is the case right now. It is pretty much as simple as that.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the electorate blames Biden or the Dems for gas price inflation. Or for any inflation, really. After all, they didn't punish Biden and the Dems for higher and scarier inflation during the 2022 midterms, right? No, if anything, the electorate appeared to have blamed Trump's Party for inflation and a slew of other problems when they entered the voting booths last year.

And they are still blaming them this year. In the voting booth "polls", I mean.

Besides, maybe a miracle will happen and USA oil reserves will flood the market and help to lower gas prices sometime soon and cause Biden's approval numbers to greatly improve. Or early next year. Or around August, September, October and Novrmber of next year.

Miracles do happen, you know. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/26/somebody-better-wake-the-f-ck-up-carville-warns-biden-is-losing-to-trump/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2855720]This Democrat does live porno sessions for $$ [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg2fxYcZTZA[/URL].

[URL]https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/09/joe-biden-is-a-dud/[/URL][/QUOTE]Imagine that? Virtually every claim regarding the economy by Trump and his fellow Repub Liars turns out to be false.

But I suppose Repubs would think Biden creating 13 million jobs in his first 30 months on the job means he is a "dud" while Trump adding $1. 5 Trillion to the deficit every 10 years into infinity in order to create 5 million jobs in his first 30 months proves he was a big "winner. " LOL. That is, before his classic Repub economic policies, stewardship and lies eventually and inevitably wiped out millions upon millions of jobs by the merciful end of his horrific 48 month term:

[B]Fact check: Debunking eight Trump false claims about the Biden-era economy.[/B]

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/14/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-about-biden-economy/index.html[/URL]

[B]Claims of Trump vs Biden employment gains are misleading.[/B]

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/claims-trump-vs-biden-employment-164946053.html[/URL]

As to Biden's popularity or lack of in the polls vs his massive popularity in the voting "polls" just a couple of years ago and his Party's popularity ever since then in the Red Tsunami-to-Pink Tinkle conversion midterms and all those special elections this past year where they are outperforming Repubs by whopping unheard of 10 points and such, I think it can be chalked up to the usual Party-affiluation claim trends that have been happening for quite some time:

[B]Few Americans Who Identify As Independent Are Actually Independent. Thats Really Bad For Politics.[/B]

[URL]https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-americans-who-identify-as-independent-are-actually-independent-thats-really-bad-for-politics/[/URL]

[B]The Rise of Independent Voters Is a Myth.
A recent poll found that nearly half of Americans identify as independent. But theyre hiding the real truth about how they vote.[/B]

[URL]https://newrepublic.com/article/173406/rise-independent-voters-myth[/URL]

Seriously. Think about it; there are several self-claimed "Independents", "Bothsiders" and "Neithersiders" right here on this board. And to a person they merely parrot the same classic Repub Party line and consistently failed Repub Party economic nonsense we have been hearing as the central theme of the Repub Party "platform", such that there ever is one, since forever.

Is there any doubt that those same classic Repubs hiding in embarrassment behind the "Independent" label after those horrific GW Bush and Trump results would make that same claim to a pollster on the phone?

If pollsters are going to sample 40%+ self-claimed "Independents" in their surveys, they will unavoidably be oversampling justifiably and understandably embarrassed classic Repubs and, therefore, Always Trumpers, in their polls along the way.

When you factor in all of the horrific economic and national security failures, the costs in American lives and Trillions in American consumer and taxpayer dollars by Trump and his Trump Fraud and Crime Family, it must give admitted Repubs, embarrassed pro-Repub "Independents", Bothsiders and Neithersiders a warm and fuzzy feeling of love for the Repub Party's lord and savior for him fullfilling the Repub Party dreams and goals so beautifully:

[B]Donald Trump found liable for fraud in New York civil case.[/B]

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-finds-trump-liable-fraud-new-york-civil-case-2023-09-26/[/URL]

[B]COVID-19s Total Cost to the U.S. Economy Will Reach $14 Trillion by End of 2023.[/B]

[URL]https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/article/covid-19s-total-cost-to-the-economy-in-us-will-reach-14-trillion-by-end-of-2023-new-research/[/URL]#text=The%20 economic%20 toll%20 of%20 the, and%20 other%20 experts%20 have%20 estimated.

This one was an early and therefore very low estimate. "and counting" is the key phrase here:

[B]Trumps election fraud falsehoods have cost taxpayers $519 million and counting.[/B]

[URL]https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trumps-election-fraud-falsehoods-have-cost-taxpayers-519-million-and-counting/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2855868]
Thanks for the gift.

While it is interesting to see that passionate Repubs are rushing to their phones and online to tell the world how much they love their lord and master at Trump's time of greatest need for Repub hillbilly defense fund donations from their entitlement checks, there have actually been other "polls" being taken for the last several months that might be a bit more telling about Biden and his Dem Party's prospects going forward.

Maybe Newsmax and Breitbart haven't been mentioning them much lately:

Democrats have been winning big in special elections.

That could bode well for them in the 2024 election.

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-winning-big-special-elections/story?id=103315703[/URL]

Democrats keep winning special elections in battleground states.

[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4213712-democrats-keep-winning-special-elections-in-battleground-states/[/URL]

Democrats are on a special election winning streak.

[URL]https://www.axios.com/2023/09/21/democrats-special-elections-winning-streak[/URL]

Democrats Are on a Winning Streak That Could Transform Our Politics.

Recent victories in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire special elections suggest Democrats can score huge wins in the fight to control state legislatures. That changes everything.

[URL]https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democrats-state-legislature-victories/[/URL]

Looks like those passionate Repubs are not showing up nearly as much as passionate Dems have been for these special elections that typically engender more Repub turnout.

Yes, it has been well documented that when gas prices increase, Biden's approval numbers decrease. As is the case right now. It is pretty much as simple as that.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the electorate blames Biden or the Dems for gas price inflation. Or for any inflation, really. After all, they didn't punish Biden and the Dems for higher and scarier inflation during the 2022 midterms, right? No, if anything, the electorate appeared to have blamed Trump's Party for inflation and a slew of other problems when they entered the voting booths last year.

And they are still blaming them this year. In the voting booth "polls", I mean.

Besides, maybe a miracle will happen and USA oil reserves will flood the market and help to lower gas prices sometime soon and cause Biden's approval numbers to greatly improve. Or early next year. Or around August, September, October and Novrmber of next year.

Miracles do happen, you know. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/09/26/somebody-better-wake-the-f-ck-up-carville-warns-biden-is-losing-to-trump/[/URL][/QUOTE]Like Carville, I LOVE it when Democrats enter an election season "panicked" over the prospect that they might lose the election to America-hating, USA Economy and Jobs-Destroying Repubs. No doubt that is a major motivator behind those recent Special Election outcomes where Dem turnout and votes outperformed Repub by 10 whopping points or more.

BTW, in that interview your beloved fellow virulently pro-Repub "Independent" LOL, Bill Maher, once again as he did the week before repeat a favorite Repub Party election campaign lie about Dems being "soft on crime" with one of his favorite lies about Dems "legalizing shop-lifting. ".

He repeats that lie almost every week on one or both of his shows. LOL.

I noticed Carville did not chime in to agree with him about that.

Oh, and Maher is wrong about Biden not coming off well in the debates. Any debates with Biden that a Repub has the balls to show up for, that is.

That is exactly why Team Biden is rather "unwoke", according to Carville, about that particular age-related Repub talking point. In fact, at any debate Biden will outshine every Repub on the stage and every moderator at the table in terms of being lucid, cognitively capable, informed and prepared on every important issue raised.

Which will probably be a shock to anyone only hearing the pro-Repub spin on it over the past 2 years in typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media and Bill Maher's weekly Repub Campaign Rallies.

"Free trade has made both the USA and the developing world more prosperous. We may have a smaller % of the pie, but the pie has gotten larger.

You earlier criticized me for wanting to see Asians make a living wage, because you incorrectly believe that comes at the expense of the American worker. Now you're saying 1. 7 billion Asians survive on less than $2 a day. Do you want them to stay poor? Do you think American consumers should have to pay 3 X what they're paying now for televisions and clothes?

Assembling electronic components, making clothes and a lot of other low end factory work is painstaking and tedious. Americans would rather do something else, although many Asians appreciate the opportunity to make enough money to feed themselves and their families. I believe the same applies to much of the work done by foreigners in the USA, although I don't believe they should be here illegally. A guest worker program makes more sense. The unemployment rate is 3. 6%, for goodness sake.

I guess you and Tooms are fans of big government spending on industrial policy like that authorized by Biden's Inflation Reduction Act and Chips and Science Act. And of high tariffs, like the ones imposed by Trump and continued by Biden. Well, they don't make sense. The best results come from spending money instead on basic research and development, and from opening foreign markets to American goods. And basic common sense policies, like the corporate tax system imposed by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (e. G. A competitive corporate tax rate and the GILTI tax, which encourages investment in the USA). You guys might borrow a bit of the time you spend watching MSNBC and reading Breitbart and look at this. ".

[URL]https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2023/09/26/1199422599/a-nobel-prize-winning-immigrants-view-on-american-inequality[/URL]

This is why Wall St impeached Trump 2 x and he has 91 felonies pending.

My theory about the latest poll in WAPO with Trump stomping Dirty Joe by 10.

Is probably a payback for Dirty Joes DOJ going after Amazon.

Bozo likes little bitches like Hussein Obama that left him alone for 8 yrs to rape and pillage.

And was given a 100 million dollar "gift" / kickback for being such a nice little beach.

The Jig is up.

I say raise the top tax rate to 90% like in the 1950's.

CRUSH THE PARASITES.

"Imagine that? Virtually every claim regarding the economy by Trump and his fellow Repub Liars turns out to be false.

But I suppose Repubs would think Biden creating 13 million jobs in his first 30 months on the job means he is a "dud" while Trump adding $1. 5 Trillion to the deficit every 10 years into infinity in order to create 5 million jobs in his first 30 months proves he was a big "winner. " LOL. That is, before his classic Repub economic policies, stewardship and lies eventually and inevitably wiped out millions upon millions of jobs by the merciful end of his horrific 48 month term:

Fact check: Debunking eight Trump false claims about the Biden-era economy.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/14/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-about-biden-economy/index.htm[/URL]

Claims of Trump vs Biden employment gains are misleading.

As to Biden's popularity or lack of in the polls vs his massive popularity in the voting "polls" just a couple of years ago and his Party's popularity ever since then in the Red Tsunami-to-Pink Tinkle conversion midterms and all those special elections this past year where they are outperforming Repubs by whopping unheard of 10 points and such, I think it can be chalked up to the usual Party-affiluation claim trends that have been happening for quite some time:

The Rise of Independent Voters Is a Myth.

A recent poll found that nearly half of Americans identify as independent. But theyre hiding the real truth about how they vote.

Seriously. Think about it; there are several self-claimed "Independents", "Bothsiders" and "Neithersiders" right here on this board. And to a person they merely parrot the same classic Repub Party line and consistently failed Repub Party economic nonsense we have been hearing as the central theme of the Repub Party "platform", such that there ever is one, since forever.

Is there any doubt that those same classic Repubs hiding in embarrassment behind the "Independent" label after those horrific GW Bush and Trump results would make that same claim to a pollster on the phone?

If pollsters are going to sample 40%+ self-claimed "Independents" in their surveys, they will unavoidably be oversampling justifiably and understandably embarrassed classic Repubs and, therefore, Always Trumpers, in their polls along the way. ".

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/morris/dick-morris-joe-biden-2024-elections/2023/09/25/id/1135760/[/URL]

"Like Carville, I love it when Democrats enter an election season "panicked" over the prospect that they might lose the election to America-hating, USA Economy and Jobs-Destroying Repubs. No doubt that is a major motivator behind those recent Special Election outcomes where Dem turnout and votes outperformed Repub by 10 whopping points or more.

BTW, in that interview your beloved fellow virulently pro-Repub "Independent" LOL, Bill Maher, once again as he did the week before repeat a favorite Repub Party election campaign lie about Dems being "soft on crime" with one of his favorite lies about Dems "legalizing shop-lifting."

He repeats that lie almost every week on one or both of his shows. LOL.

I noticed Carville did not chime in to agree with him about that.

Oh, and Maher is wrong about Biden not coming off well in the debates. Any debates with Biden that a Repub has the balls to show up for, that is.

That is exactly why Team Biden is rather "unwoke", according to Carville, about that particular age-related Repub talking point. In fact, at any debate Biden will outshine every Repub on the stage and every moderator at the table in terms of being lucid, cognitively capable, informed and prepared on every important issue raised.

Which will probably be a shock to anyone only hearing the pro-Repub spin on it over the past 2 years in typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media and Bill Maher's weekly Repub Campaign Rallies."

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/27/us/baltimore-tech-ceo-murder-suspect-pava-lapere-wednesday/index.html[/URL]

PDB beat George Shrub Bush AND Obama. Up in in the polls this time. Why would he dare to debate.

"Like Carville, I love it when Democrats enter an election season "panicked" over the prospect that they might lose the election to America-hating, USA Economy and Jobs-Destroying Repubs. No doubt that is a major motivator behind those recent Special Election outcomes where Dem turnout and votes outperformed Repub by 10 whopping points or more.

BTW, in that interview your beloved fellow virulently pro-Repub "Independent" LOL, Bill Maher, once again as he did the week before repeat a favorite Repub Party election campaign lie about Dems being "soft on crime" with one of his favorite lies about Dems "legalizing shop-lifting. ".

He repeats that lie almost every week on one or both of his shows. LOL.

I noticed Carville did not chime in to agree with him about that.

Oh, and Maher is wrong about Biden not coming off well in the debates. Any debates with Biden that a Repub has the balls to show up for, that is.

That is exactly why Team Biden is rather "unwoke", according to Carville, about that particular age-related Repub talking point. In fact, at any debate Biden will outshine every Repub on the stage and every moderator at the table in terms of being lucid, cognitively capable, informed and prepared on every important issue raised.

Which will probably be a shock to anyone only hearing the pro-Repub spin on it over the past 2 years in typically pro-Repub Mainstream Media and Bill Maher's weekly Repub Campaign Rallies. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/27/nolte-mass-looting-spreads-democrat-run-philadelphia/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/michaeldorstewitz/democrats-poll/2023/09/27/id/1136101/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2856135]"Like Carville, I love it when Democrats enter an election season "panicked" over the prospect that they might lose the election to America-hating, USA Economy and Jobs-Destroying Repubs. No doubt that is a major motivator behind those recent Special Election outcomes where Dem turnout and votes outperformed Repub by 10 whopping points or more.

BTW, in that interview your beloved fellow virulently pro-Repub "Independent" LOL, Bill Maher, once again as he did the week before repeat a favorite Repub Party election campaign lie about Dems being "soft on crime" with one of his favorite lies about Dems "legalizing shop-lifting. ".

He repeats that lie almost every week on one or both of his shows. LOL.

I noticed Carville did not chime in to agree with him about that.

Oh, and Maher is wrong about Biden not coming off well in the debates. Any debates with Biden that a Repub has the balls to show up for, that is.

That is exactly why Team Biden is rather "unwoke", according to Carville, about that particular age-related Repub talking point. In fact, at any debate Biden will outshine every Repub on the stage and every moderator at the table in terms of being lucid, cognitively capable, informed and prepared on every important issue raised.[/QUOTE]Where's the part that supports Bill Maher's weekly beloved Repub "Party of Law and Order" Campaign Rally lie that "Democrats legalized shop-lifting"?

Lolol.

[B]Seattle Residents Mock Fox News Reporter's Attempt To Discuss The City's Crime.[/B]

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-residents-mock-fox-news-041244240.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Fux News sent a reporter to Seattle to find out how residents of the Emerald City feel about crime, and he didnt exactly get the warmest of welcomes.

In fact, one man insisted hes never seen crime in the city.

Ive never seen any crime in Seattle, he told Johnny Belisario, the reporter who was sent to the city by Jesse Watters of The Five. Ive seen fun and laughter and laughter and fun.
.....
But the most memorable moment came when another woman in a green jacket was having absolutely none of his talking points.

Ive never heard of anyone getting robbed, she said. People just dont come up and try to rob people on the street.[/QUOTE][B]Democrats again secure one-vote Pa. House majority after Powell wins special election.[/B]

[URL]https://whyy.org/articles/pennsylvania-special-election-house-control-lindsay-powell-allegheny-county-erin-connolly-autenreith/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2856057]"Like Carville, I love it when Democrats enter an election season "panicked" over the prospect that they might lose the election to America-hating, USA Economy and Jobs-Destroying Repubs. No doubt that is a major motivator behind those recent Special Election outcomes where Dem turnout and votes outperformed Repub by 10 whopping points or more.

BTW, in that interview your beloved fellow virulently pro-Repub "Independent" LOL, Bill Maher, once again as he did the week before repeat a favorite Repub Party election campaign lie about Dems being "soft on crime" with one of his favorite lies about Dems "legalizing shop-lifting."

He repeats that lie almost every week on one or both of his shows. LOL.

I noticed Carville did not chime in to agree with him about that.

Oh, and Maher is wrong about Biden not coming off well in the debates. Any debates with Biden that a Repub has the balls to show up for, that is.[/QUOTE]"This individual will kill, and he will rape," Worley cautioned, citing the suspect's criminal record. "he will do anything he can to cause harm."

Hmm. I know a Repub former so-called potus on the lamb right now after mass murdering at least 1 Million Americans and being found liable for rape as defined in the state where he was also judged to have defrauded banks for many Millions of Dollars.

Orange hair. About 5' 9". At least 300 lbs. Tiny hands.

Anybody seen him lately? He has a history of hiding in a Men's Room stall to avoid being laughed at from other World Leaders and to dodge having to debate anyone on an issue of importance where you might need to actually know something.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2852955]...Im not sure you can blame all of this on Trump though. A very small minority of his more ardent supporters would take things too far. [/QUOTE] I say again "Oh, really!!!"

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2853182]This is a common misconception of Democrats, that Republicans are all White Supremacists who shoot schoolchildren, assassinate politicians, and conduct insurrections

in their spare time. [b]I know many Republicans,[/b] and I promise you it's a very, very small % that do that, I'd estimate way, way under 1/100th of 1%. [/QUOTE]Well, it appears you may not know your fellow QAnon/MAGA Repubs at all. NYT article says otherwise:

[QUOTE=New York Times][b]As Trump prosecutions Move Forward, Threats and Concerns Increase[/b]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/24/us/politics/trump-prosecutions-threats-violence.html[/url]

"...In April, before federal prosecutors indicted Mr. Trump, one survey showed that 4.5 percent of American adults agreed with the idea that the use of force was [b]justified to restore Donald Trump to the presidency.[/b] Just two months later, after the first federal indictment of Mr. Trump, that figure [u]surged to 7 percent[/u]..."[/QUOTE]

Rest assured, of that 7%, I'd say 99% of the 7 percent (probably is really a 100%, but left room to haggle), are the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, that think violence is justified to restore the ex-Pres back into power.

Perhaps, time for new Repub friends? (Something to consider, but really I'm just kidding...kkkk!).

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2856101]PDB beat George Shrub Bush AND Obama. Up in in the polls this time. Why would he dare to debate.[/QUOTE]After Trump's great victory in defeating Obama in 2016, then his humiliating defeat to GW Bush in 2020, he has demanded that his loyal Pink Tinklers avenge his honor by duly Impeaching President Hunter Biden.

Naturally, they are dutifully obliging.

Nope. Not difficult at all to imagine these loons somehow cobbled together a $1. 5 Trillion net addition to the Repub Deficit every ten years "stimulus" legislation for a complex national USA economy that wasn't overwhelmingly crap.

Uh. The Party that racks up Trillions in debt then threatens to blackmail the country into not paying that debt or they will shut down the government, thereby raise the cost of that debt as well as adding more to the Repub Deficit is not capable of cobbling together anything remotely like an intelligent and effective economic legislation or tax policy.

It is simply not possible.

Well, let's say it is as possible as putting 12 monkeys in a room with 12 typewriters and winding up with the Complete Works of William Shakespeare by the end of the month.

"I say again "Oh, really!

Well, it appears you may not know your fellow QAnon / MAGA Repubs at all. NYT article says otherwise:

Rest assured, of that 7%, I'd say 99% of the 7 percent (probably is really a 100%, but left room to haggle), are the QAnon / MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, that think violence is justified to restore the ex-Pres back into power.

Perhaps, time for new Repub friends? (Something to consider, but really I'm just kidding. Kkkk! ".

"This individual will kill, and he will rape," Worley cautioned, citing the suspect's criminal record. "he will do anything he can to cause harm. ".

Hmm. I know a Repub former so-called potus on the lamb right now after mass murdering at least 1 Million Americans and being found liable for rape as defined in the state where he was also judged to have defrauded banks for many Millions of Dollars.

Orange hair. About 5' 9". At least 300 lbs. Tiny hands.

Anybody seen him lately? He has a history of hiding in a Men's Room stall to avoid being laughed at from other World Leaders and to dodge having to debate anyone on an issue of importance where you might need to actually know something.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/28/mark-levins-the-democrat-party-hates-america-hits-1-new-york-times-bestseller-list/[/URL]

"Where's the part that supports Bill Maher's weekly beloved Repub "Party of Law and Order" Campaign Rally lie that "Democrats legalized shop-lifting"?

Lolol.

Seattle Residents Mock Fox News Reporter's Attempt To Discuss The City's Crime.

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-residents-mock-fox-news-041244240.html[/URL]

Democrats again secure one-vote Pa. House majority after Powell wins special election.

[URL]https://whyy.org/articles/pennsylvania-special-election-house-control-lindsay-powell-allegheny-county-erin-connolly-autenreith/[/URL]".

[URL]https://ktla.com/news/local-news/video-captures-thief-attacking-elderly-woman-in-violent-chinatown-robbery/[/URL]

More thuggin' with matching video:

[b]New Yorker - "Trump wants his enemies to fear for their lives"[/b]
[URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/09/trump-milley-death-fbi-threats.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218304715[/URL]

As the 2x impeached, 4x indicted, insurrectionist Repub front runner ramps up his thuggin' and fear mongerin', the dude conveniently shows up at a gun shop in NC, with MTG. Hmmm....

To what end you might ask...well I'm sure too most of us, it's plainly obvious by now, as the dog whistles and coded signals, no doubt are received by [b]the (growing) violent 7% MAGA Repubs lunatic fringe,[/b] now shitting themselves with glee, at the sight of their [i]"Loud and Save-ior (own damn ass)",[/i] at a gun shop.

As he dimwittedly demonstrates to MAGA nation, how the criminally indicted with sentences longer than one year, illegally buy guns, contra to US federal gun law U.S.C. 922. And in doing so, provides more cannon fodder for DOJ....kkkk!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2856398]"Where's the part that supports Bill Maher's weekly beloved Repub "Party of Law and Order" Campaign Rally lie that "Democrats legalized shop-lifting"?

Lolol.

Seattle Residents Mock Fox News Reporter's Attempt To Discuss The City's Crime.

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-residents-mock-fox-news-041244240.html[/URL]

Democrats again secure one-vote Pa. House majority after Powell wins special election.

[URL]https://whyy.org/articles/pennsylvania-special-election-house-control-lindsay-powell-allegheny-county-erin-connolly-autenreith/[/URL]".

[URL]https://ktla.com/news/local-news/video-captures-thief-attacking-elderly-woman-in-violent-chinatown-robbery/[/URL][/QUOTE]Just to clarify; are you thanking Joe Biden for supposedly having something to do with a Chinese person getting attacked in LOS Angeles? Or sarcastically slamming Biden for not lavishing the Chinese with whatever they want as long as they "Make sure I win" next year?

Because either one would certainly fit the Trumpster agenda regarding China.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2856392]"This individual will kill, and he will rape," Worley cautioned, citing the suspect's criminal record. "he will do anything he can to cause harm. ".

Hmm. I know a Repub former so-called potus on the lamb right now after mass murdering at least 1 Million Americans and being found liable for rape as defined in the state where he was also judged to have defrauded banks for many Millions of Dollars.

Orange hair. About 5' 9". At least 300 lbs. Tiny hands.

Anybody seen him lately? He has a history of hiding in a Men's Room stall to avoid being laughed at from other World Leaders and to dodge having to debate anyone on an issue of importance where you might need to actually know something.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/28/mark-levins-the-democrat-party-hates-america-hits-1-new-york-times-bestseller-list/[/URL][/QUOTE]What is a "Democrat" Party?

Just a typo?

LOL. It requires a lot of cognitive impairment to allow such an obvious typo pass from the author to the publisher to the printer without any of them catching and correcting it.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RArcOYVADqQ[/URL]

Sucked her way to the White House.

But OMG I wouldn't let her suck me if I drank a bottle of jack.

"This individual will kill, and he will rape," Worley cautioned, citing the suspect's criminal record. "he will do anything he can to cause harm. "

Hmm. I know a Repub former so-called potus on the lamb right now after mass murdering at least 1 Million Americans and being found liable for rape as defined in the state where he was also judged to have defrauded banks for many Millions of Dollars.

Orange hair. About 5' 9". At least 300 lbs. Tiny hands.

Anybody seen him lately? He has a history of hiding in a Men's Room stall to avoid being laughed at from other World Leaders and to dodge having to debate anyone on an issue of importance where you might need to actually know something. "

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/details-emerge-slaying-beloved-baltimore-100036411.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2856400]

...In April, before federal prosecutors indicted Mr. Trump, one survey showed that 4.5 percent of American adults agreed with the idea that the use of force was justified to restore Donald Trump to the presidency. Just two months later, after the first federal indictment of Mr. Trump, that figure surged to 7 percent..."
Rest assured, of that 7%, I'd say 99% of the 7 percent (probably is really a 100%, but left room to haggle), are the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, that think violence is justified to restore the ex-Pres back into power.....

More thuggin' with matching video:

[b]New Yorker - "Trump wants his enemies to fear for their lives"[/b]
[URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/09/trump-milley-death-fbi-threats.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218304715[/URL]

As the 2x impeached, 4x indicted, insurrectionist Repub front runner ramps up his thuggin' and fear mongerin', the dude conveniently shows up at a gun shop in NC, with MTG. Hmmm....

To what end you might ask...well I'm sure too most of us, it's plainly obvious by now, as the dog whistles and coded signals, no doubt are received by [b]the (growing) violent 7% MAGA Repubs lunatic fringe,[/b] now shitting themselves with glee, at the sight of their [i]"Loud and Save-ior (own damn ass)",[/i] at a gun shop.

As he dimwittedly demonstrates to MAGA nation, how the criminally indicted with sentences longer than one year, illegally buy guns, contra to US federal gun law U.S.C. 922. And in doing so, provides more cannon fodder for DOJ....kkkk![/QUOTE]Just so you don't lose sleep at night worrying, you don't have to worry much about getting killed by MAGA Republicans Spidy. There's a much, much higher probability you'll be shot by a Democrat with a handgun than a wild eyed MAGA Republican with a semi-automatic rifle.

In fact, Democrats are a much larger % of felons than Republicans. This study from New York showed that there were about 7 X as many registered Democrats as registered Republicans among ex-felons in the sample.

[URL]https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~marcmere/workingpapers/FelonNotification.pdf[/URL]

There's a reason why Democrats push to give voting rights to ex felons while Republicans do not. It's because they disproportionately vote for Democrats.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2856435]What is a "Democrat" Party?

Just a typo?

LOL. It requires a lot of cognitive impairment to allow such an obvious typo pass from the author to the publisher to the printer without any of them catching and correcting it.[/QUOTE]That's because the Democratic Party, with its system of super delegates that historically disenfranchised the base, was anything but Democratic. So some Republicans have adopted the term "Democrat Party. ".

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2856184]Hmm. I know a Repub former so-called potus on the lamb right now after mass murdering at least 1 Million Americans and being found liable for rape as defined in the state where he was also judged to have defrauded banks for many Millions of Dollars.[/QUOTE]Haha! COVID killed 1 million Americans, not Trump.

Read the New York judge's partial summary judgement. It's available on MSNBC's web site. The judge went out of his way to try to justify issuing the judgement given the banks made money on the loans. Trump didn't default and paid principal and interest in full. Well, at least since the 1990's.

And as to "rape", that's a "he said, she said" thing. Given the time that's lapsed and the lack of evidence, a fair judge and jury wouldn't have awarded the plaintiff millions. Any one of us could be set up just like Trump may have been if we had a lot of money or a high political profile.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2856585]Haha! COVID killed 1 million Americans, not Trump.

Read the New York judge's partial summary judgement. It's available on MSNBC's web site. The judge went out of his way to try to justify issuing the judgement given the banks made money on the loans. Trump didn't default and paid principal and interest in full. Well, at least since the 1990's.

And as to "rape", that's a "he said, she said" thing. Given the time that's lapsed and the lack of evidence, a fair judge and jury wouldn't have awarded the plaintiff millions. Any one of us could be set up just like Trump may have been if we had a lot of money or a high political profile.[/QUOTE][URL]https://news.yahoo.com/bob-woodward-stunned-trump-told-091902598.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]"I said, it came out of China, Barron. Pure and simple. It came out of China. And it shouldve been stopped. And to be honest with you, Barron, [b]they shouldve let it be known it was a problem two months earlier ... the world wouldnt have a problem. We could have stopped it easily."[/b][/QUOTE]I forget, which "world leader" defunded and removed the Pandemic Prevention and Response teams from those Chinese labs whose very job it was to alert responsible leaders of the emergence of the potential spread of a deadly virus in 2018,2019 and then spent almost all of critical year 2020 lying about and mocking the known mitigation measures, assuring the world it was "disappearing", "will go away without a vaccine", so no reason for anyone to bother inventing one or even taking one, capped off by him and his wife secretly taking the vaccine so as not to vaguely promote the idea of ANYONE taking the vaccine?

Was that Xi? Was those admittedly culpable decisions made by the virus itself? Did a Hillary Clinton email make those 2018 and 2019 decisions and lie about it all through 2020?

As for the "he said, she said" excuse, it turns out there are at least 16-17 other "she saids" in the queue:

[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2856583]That's because the Democratic Party, with its system of super delegates that historically disenfranchised the base, was anything but Democratic. So some Republicans have adopted the term "Democrat Party. ".[/QUOTE]Oh, then after their constant effort to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters specifically as well as characterize a violent, cop-killing Insurrection and attack on the Capitol in order to overturn a free and fair election and overthrow American democracy as "Legitimate Political Discourse", the Dems really ought to adopt the term "The America-hating, anti-American Party" for the Republican Party.

All of which and more makes numbskull Mark Levin's idiotic and wrongheaded title and subject for his America-hating book even more idiotic and wrong-headed, of course.

LOL. He must also believe the only Party to produce every historic recovery, major jobs creation and prolonged economic expansion of the past 100 years obviously "hates" America while the only Party that has produced every Great Depression, Great Recession and Massive Job Losses in that same 100 years just as obviously "loves" America. Lolol. Perfect idiotic, numbskull, America-hating Repub logic.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2856582]Just so you don't lose sleep at night worrying, you don't have to worry much about getting killed by MAGA Republicans Spidy. There's a much, much higher probability you'll be shot by a Democrat with a handgun than a wild eyed MAGA Republican with a semi-automatic rifle.

In fact, Democrats are a much larger % of felons than Republicans. This study from New York showed that there were about 7 X as many registered Democrats as registered Republicans among ex-felons in the sample.

[URL]https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~marcmere/workingpapers/FelonNotification.pdf[/URL]

There's a reason why Democrats push to give voting rights to ex felons while Republicans do not. It's because they disproportionately vote for Democrats.[/QUOTE]There is a reason Repubs want to put guns in the hands of the mentally ill and Dems do not. It is because most Repubs are mentally ill and since democracy is just not into Repubs, they have been quite vocal about preferring a "2nd Amendment Solution" to their political and mental deficiencies.

[B]Trump signs bill reversing Obama rule to ban gun purchases by mentally ill.[/B]

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/28/trump-sign-bill-blocking-obama-gun-rule/98484106/[/URL]

And on gun-related deaths, a high percentage of mentally ill Repubs will commit suicide with their gun. Which underscores how dangerously mentally ill those gun-toting Repubs can be to others before they off themselves:

[B]Red States Have Higher Gun Death Rates Than Blue States. Heres Why.[/B]

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/04/28/red-states-have-higher-gun-death-rates-than-blue-states-heres-why/?sh=b6ebb581f812[/URL]

[QUOTE]A new study published in Journal of the American Medical Associations Surgery found that firearm deaths are more likely in small rural towns than in major urban cities, adding to research that contradicts common belief that Democratic blue areas have higher incidences of gun-related deaths than do Republican red districts.
....
45,222. Thats how many people died in the U.S. due to gun-related injuries in 2020, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Of that number, gun suicides account for 54%.[/QUOTE]I think there is a connection that deserves study between all those mentally ill Repubs committing suicide and, before that, their persistent voting for the one Party behind every major economic downturn, massive jobs destruction and crippling government shutdown.

Unfortunately, before their mentally ill suicidal tendancy manifests in their ultimate act of self-destruction, their Repub votes drag the rest of the country into one damn historic destructive result after another.

BTW, lose sleep about being murdered in Red States, not Blue states:

[B]U.S. Crime.
Republicans claim Democrats cant keep us safe crime data disagrees.
Studies show that states with higher murder rates are those that vote red even as conservatives stoke fear about crime.[/B]

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/30/murder-rates-democrat-republican-states-gun-control[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2853800]And by lies, you mean what? ...[/QUOTE]Pay attention, Elvis, this is what being lied to, looks like. This is what dishonesty, falsification and deceitfulness, looks like.

In light of the phony and fake evidence the Repubs tried to peddle, in their so called impeachment herring, was just an utter disaster as they trotted out their so called evidence and witnesses, only to go down in flames.

House Repubs, notably Rep.Bryron Donalds (FL), [b]fabricated photoshopped email(s),[/b] ready to pass it off as genuine evidence. Naturally, they were thoroughly rebuked and debunked, by House Dems. And when Repubs, had their own witnesses testify, those witnesses, even had to admit the evidence was weak and wasn't really sufficient enough to form an impeachment.

The clown show that is the House Repubs, was on full display and embarrassed themselves, with their lies, weak witnesses and falsification of evidence.

[b]House GOP Impeachment Hearing Turned Into a Clown Show[/b]
[URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/09/house-gop-impeachment-hearing-turned-into-a-clown-show.html[/URL]

So there you have it, yet another fine example of the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, that is morally and substantively bankrupted and ready to burn everything to the ground if their [i]"Loud and Save-ior(dumb ass)",[/i] isn't reinstated again as the biggest loser.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2856582]...you don't have to worry much about getting killed...

In fact, Democrats are a much larger % of felons than Republicans. This study from New York showed that there were about 7 X as many registered Democrats as registered Republicans among ex-felons in the sample. [URL]https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~marcmere/workingpapers/FelonNotification.pdf [/URL] [/QUOTE] Rinse, Recycle and Repeat??? Time to get a new study, brother!

Yeah, you showed this doc't before and I wasn't buying into the correlation with ex-felons (all being associated with gun violence as their crime going into jail) and said affiliated voting parties after being release from jail, that YOU are trying to make then...and [b] I'm still not buying it, now![/b]

So good luck, peddling and convincing someone else with that out of date and highly suspect document!

[QUOTE=Spidy;2856724]Pay attention, Elvis, this is what being lied to, looks like. This is what dishonesty, falsification and deceitfulness, looks like.

In light of the phony and fake evidence the Repubs tried to peddle, in their so called impeachment herring, was just an utter disaster as they trotted out their so called evidence and witnesses, only to go down in flames.

Naturally, they were thoroughly rebuked and debunked, by House Dems. And when Repubs, had their own witnesses testify, those witnesses, even had to admit the evidence was weak and wasn't really sufficient enough to form an impeachment.[/QUOTE]Uh, sorry, Spidey, your link to the video of Johnathan Turley was not the slam dunk you claimed it was. Turley said the evidence to impeach Joe Biden is not there yet but he recommended that an inquiry into getting that evidence if it exists should be done. That is not a Democratic victory.

For someone like you who points to facts as opinions that you agree with, the latest fact is Hunter Biden is suing for having his abandoned laptop stolen from him. That said laptop had "all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation" was not a lie by our intelligence experts. We have been treated to everything that goes against Dems as being a Putin plot since 2016.

When you say this bullshit about Biden and how great a job he has done, I have to ask this, do you live here? Outside of a stock market rally, I do not see shit that he has done. His economic policies, particularly with green energy are fucking crazy, and I have seen Democrats like Oliver Stone and Roger Moore push back on them.

Today is actually the first day people have to pay back on their student loans. Between that and energy prices, I wonder if this will be the fatal blow. To top if off, there is this, [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/homes-are-unaffordable-99-us-counties[/URL].

Which really is not news to anyone looking to buy a home.

The flip side of this is if you own a home, you are kicking ass, but you are sitting on your ass. It is no wonder UAW workers are asking for crazy amounts of money. They need it to buy a house.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2856724]So there you have it, yet another fine example of the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe[/QUOTE]Yes, everyone against your party minded way of thinking is a lunatic.

If you saw that ridiculous and idiotic banter, that took place between Repub presidential hopefuls Nikki Haley and Sen.Tim Scott (that supposedly was passed off as a debate), you couldn't help but see the foreboding irony, in their moronic banter and perhaps (with sardonic irony) think, ...surely it's [b]"curtains"[/b] for the GOP/Repubs? (...kkkk!)

[b]Bring It: Nikki Haley, Tim Scott Derail Debate[/b]
[URL]https://dailycaller.com/2023/09/27/bring-it-nikki-haley-tim-scott-derail-debate-by-getting-into-shouting-match-over-curtains[/URL]
[URL]https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106378537 [/URL]

"Where's the part that supports Bill Maher's weekly beloved Repub "Party of Law and Order" Campaign Rally lie that "Democrats legalized shop-lifting"?

Lolol.

Seattle Residents Mock Fox News Reporter's Attempt To Discuss The City's Crime.

[URL]https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-residents-mock-fox-news-041244240.html[/URL]

Democrats again secure one-vote Pa. House majority after Powell wins special election.

[URL]https://whyy.org/articles/pennsylvania-special-election-house-control-lindsay-powell-allegheny-county-erin-connolly-autenreith/[/URL]".

Legalize shoplifting LMAO.

They don't need anything legalized in the land of no rule of law.

[URL]https://www.freep.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freep.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmichigan%2Foakland%2F2023%2F10%2F01%2Foakland-county-sheriff-michael-bouchard-illegal-burglars-gangs-growing-threat-upscale-homes%2F71007077007%2F[/URL]

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/california-brute-shoplifter-lights-store-clerk-on-fire/[/URL]

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/watch-teen-aka-youth-aka-thug-aka-teen-aka-brute-aka-etc-throws-chair-at-teacher/[/URL]

The Oakland county story still gets a wowww from me.

Dirty Joes illegal aliens doing home invasions in the wealthy suburbs.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2856582] Just so you don't lose sleep at night worrying, you don't have to worry much about getting killed by MAGA Republicans Spidy. There's a much, much higher probability you'll be shot by a Democrat with a handgun than a wild eyed MAGA Republican with a semi-automatic rifle... [/QUOTE] (...kkkk!) Doubt that very much!

However, while your concern for me is touching (albeit unwarranted), truth be told, I am just as equally concerned about you getting gun-down and/or AK'd/AR-15'd, from the 7% surge in thuggin' from your fellow QAnon/MAGA Repubs cohoerts. While I'm sure my concern is just as equally unwarranted, the point is...[b]stay safe out there[/b], in MAGA land.

But yes,[b]with the ever increasing violence[/b] from the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, surging to a whooping 7%, that's approx. 2.3 million QAnon/MAGA Repubs, looking at thuggin', gunnin', runnin' and causin' mayhem all over the country, while trying to reinstate their [i]"Loud and Save-ior(dumb-ass)",[/i] [b]...indeed it is very much alarming.[/b]

[b]As Trump prosecutions Move Forward, Threats and Concerns Increase[/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/24/us/politics/trump-prosecutions-threats-violence.html[/URL]

So with surge in Repub thuggin' on the increase, I'll be sure to consider limiting my appearances, with my [i]"Trump is the Devil, Lock Him Up!"[/i] sign in hand, when I'm protesting around my fav [b]Never Trumpers[/b], like:

[i]Ray Epps, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, Cassidy Hutchinson, Michael Cohen, Gen.Mark Milley, ex-Gov.Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Tom Rice, John Boehner, Joe Scarborough, Anthony Gonzalez, Mike, Karen & Gerg Pence, Asa Hutchinson, Arnold "the maid fucking terminator" Schwarzenegger...etc, etc, etc[/i]

[b]List of Republicans who oppose the Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign[/b]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_oppose_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign[/URL]

Whoa! Tiny 12, just look at that Wiki Never Trumper list quadrupling in size...it looks like I have my supportive "Never Trump" work cut out for me. So much for those vaunted non-sleepless nights, you'd prophesized.

But on the flip-side, it looks like [i][u]somebody's[/u][/i] [b]"turd-list"[/b] is also exponentially piling up. So I guess [i]somebody[/i], better best get to shovelin' (...kkkk!)

Eternal vigilance against mentally ill Repubs is advisable. Patriotic Americans need to sleep with one eye open and arrange for their personal safety and security at all times.

Just ask outgoing Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2857343](...kkkk!) Doubt that very much!

However, while your concern for me is touching (albeit unwarranted), truth be told, I am just as equally concerned about you getting gun-down and/or AK'd/AR-15'd, from the 7% surge in thuggin' from your fellow QAnon/MAGA Repubs cohoerts. While I'm sure my concern is just as equally unwarranted, the point is...[b]stay safe out there[/b], in MAGA land.

But yes,[b]with the ever increasing violence[/b] from the QAnon/MAGA Repub cult lunatic fringe, surging to a whooping 7%, that's approx. 2.3 million QAnon/MAGA Repubs, looking at thuggin', gunnin', runnin' and causin' mayhem all over the country, while trying to reinstate their [i]"Loud and Save-ior(dumb-ass)",[/i] [b]...indeed it is very much alarming.[/b]

[b]As Trump prosecutions Move Forward, Threats and Concerns Increase[/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/24/us/politics/trump-prosecutions-threats-violence.html[/URL]

So with surge in Repub thuggin' on the increase, I'll be sure to consider limiting my appearances, with my [i]"Trump is the Devil, Lock Him Up!"[/i] sign in hand, when I'm protesting around my fav [b]Never Trumpers[/b], like:

[i]Ray Epps, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, Cassidy Hutchinson, Michael Cohen, Gen.Mark Milley, ex-Gov.Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Tom Rice, John Boehner, Joe Scarborough, Anthony Gonzalez, Mike, Karen & Gerg Pence, Asa Hutchinson, Arnold "the maid fucking terminator" Schwarzenegger...etc, etc, etc[/i]

[b]List of Republicans who oppose the Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign[/b]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_oppose_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign[/URL]

Whoa! Tiny 12, just look at that Wiki Never Trumper list quadrupling in size...it looks like I have my supportive "Never Trump" work cut out for me. So much for those vaunted non-sleepless nights, you'd prophesized.

But on the flip-side, it looks like [i][u]somebody's[/u][/i] [b]"turd-list"[/b] is also exponentially piling up. So I guess [i]somebody[/i], better best get to shovelin' (...kkkk!)[/QUOTE]The classic, iconic, most beloved Repub Party lord and savior leader in history knows which side has the guns and other weapons, is prepared to use them and on whom in order to effect their necessary "2nd Amendment Solution" to the decades long problem for them that the American electorate simply does not want mentally ill Repubs in the White House:

[B]Trump said 'I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me' as an angry mob avoided metal detectors at his January 6 speech: ex-aide testimony
[/B]

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-weapons-january-6-crowd-dont-fucking-care-2022-6[/URL]

[QUOTE]She also testified that she was made aware of Trump supporters fashioning flag poles into spears, and alerted the chief of staff about those weapons along with "knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles bear spray, body armor, spears, and flag poles."[/QUOTE]There are many ways understandably self-loathing, sucidal, mentally ill Repubs can and do murder their fellow Americans, keep those Red State murder rates up there among the highest in the country and vote for Repub pols to destroy the country over and over again well before they finally get around to, mercifully, destroying themselves. Not just with guns.

"Haha! COVID killed 1 million Americans, not Trump.

Read the New York judge's partial summary judgement. It's available on MSNBC's web site. The judge went out of his way to try to justify issuing the judgement given the banks made money on the loans. Trump didn't default and paid principal and interest in full. Well, at least since the 1990's.

And as to "rape", that's a "he said, she said" thing. Given the time that's lapsed and the lack of evidence, a fair judge and jury wouldn't have awarded the plaintiff millions. Any one of us could be set up just like Trump may have been if we had a lot of money or a high political profile. ".

Covid didn't kill 1 million Americans Xi and the CCP did.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2023/10/02/new-york-times-immigration-continues-exploitation-encouraged-by-slavery/[/URL]

"Haha! COVID killed 1 million Americans, not Trump.

Read the New York judge's partial summary judgement. It's available on MSNBC's web site. The judge went out of his way to try to justify issuing the judgement given the banks made money on the loans. Trump didn't default and paid principal and interest in full. Well, at least since the 1990's.

And as to "rape", that's a "he said, she said" thing. Given the time that's lapsed and the lack of evidence, a fair judge and jury wouldn't have awarded the plaintiff millions. Any one of us could be set up just like Trump may have been if we had a lot of money or a high political profile. ".

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2023/10/02/new-york-times-immigration-continues-exploitation-encouraged-by-slavery/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2857397]"Haha! COVID killed 1 million Americans, not Trump.

Read the New York judge's partial summary judgement. It's available on MSNBC's web site. The judge went out of his way to try to justify issuing the judgement given the banks made money on the loans.[b] Trump didn't default and paid principal and interest in full. Well, at least since the 1990's.[/b]

And as to "rape", that's a "he said, she said" thing. Given the time that's lapsed and the lack of evidence, a fair judge and jury wouldn't have awarded the plaintiff millions. Any one of us could be set up just like Trump may have been if we had a lot of money or a high political profile. ".

Covid didn't kill 1 million Americans Xi and the CCP did.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2023/10/02/new-york-times-immigration-continues-exploitation-encouraged-by-slavery/[/URL][/QUOTE]The level of Trump's fraud was over-the-top egregious. Some judge would have to be a classic lawless, anti Rule of Law Repub not to have spanked Trump's ass for it in historic fashion.

To have gone classic "soft on crime" Repub with Trump would have been tantamount to ruling that a bank loan application is "just a vague guideline, go ahead and lie your ass off on it to get the best loan rate, as long as you pay us back no biggie, our other borrowers subsidizing YOUR lies are fine with that. ".

[B]New Fux News Spin On Trump Fraud. "victimless crime."
Sure, it's victimless, unless you count every taxpayer in New York City.[/B]

[URL]https://crooksandliars.com/2023/10/new-fox-news-spin-trump-fraud-victimless[/URL]

[QUOTE]Every taxpayer in New York City is screwed by what Trump did. Every resident of New York City is screwed by what Trump did. And every customer of the banks that lent the money and the insurance companies which insured the properties are victims. Every one.

In case it's not self-evident, here's why. By undervaluing the properties for tax purposes, Trump cheated New York out of tax revenue needed to pay police, fire fighters, repair streets and other city expenses, which means the rest of the taxpayers picked up that tab. By overvaluing the properties for loan and insurance purposes, Trump used more of each bank's share of "lendable assets," so that the next person in line for a loan might have been declined, or had their loan shorted because the banks can't have more than a certain percentage of their assets in loans at any one time. By overvaluing the properties for insurance purposes, every other insured would have had to pick up the tab for excessive insurance claims, had any occurred. It doesn't matter if the loans were paid off before he refinanced them, because they put banks and insurers at risk for more than they could have collected if he defaulted.[/QUOTE]Nevermind the "if" he defaulted part. He lied in order to get a lower or more preferential rate on the loans. Guess who paid the difference between what that deadbeat con man liar paid and what he should have paid if he'd gotten the loan at all?

Everybody on the Planet who paid a higher rate!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2857380]Eternal vigilance against mentally ill Repubs is advisable. Patriotic Americans need to sleep with one eye open and arrange for their personal safety and security at all times. [/QUOTE]Yes, an unfortunate reality for many Americans, unfairly caught in the crosshairs of a deranged wanna be dictator and the crazed QAnon/MAGA right.

But you're not even stafe in your own house, these days. As just a day ago, (2023-Oct-02) beloved community member, Josh Kruger, a (PA) journalist and (LGBTQ) activist (speaking on behalf of undeserved groups in his community) was murdered, shot 7x and [i][u]gunned down inside his home,[/u][/i] just weeks after posting on Facebook (the new address book/Rolodex for the unhinged Q/MAGA cult), that he was threatened. A manhunt is on...

[b]Philadelphia Journalist Is Killed in His Home - The New York Times[/b]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/business/media/josh-kruger-journalist-shooting-philadelphia.html[/URL]

[b]Philadelphia journalist and advocate Josh Kruger shot and killed at home[/b]
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/02/us/josh-kruger-death-philadelphia/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2857380]...and arrange for their personal safety and security at all times.

Just ask outgoing Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley. ... [/QUOTE]Yep! Or for that matter, Mitt Romney ($5K/day for security), Ray Epps (businesses/life in tatters), Cassidy Hutchinson (exile)...etc.

But I like the grit and moxie, fmr. Chair, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair, General Mark Milley (and Cassidy Hutchinson, as of late), showed at his (2023-Sep-29) retirement ceremony speech, as he addresses the military.

This speech did a number of things, but the main objective IMHO, was to strike down the notion that, [b]the US Army [u]would ever[/u] stand behind or become loyal to a tyrannical figure head.[/b] Especially one that calls for the execution of its generals, like they do in 3rd world dictatorships, despotic and tyrannical regimes.

What he said bears repeating. The Honorable Gen. Mark Milley, profoundly said:
[LIST]"We are unique among the world's military..."
"We don't take an oath to a country,"
"We don't take an oath to a tribe,"
"We don't take an oath to a religion,"
"We don't take an oath to a King...Or queen..."
"Or tyrant...Or Dictator,"
"And we don't take an oath to [b]a Wannabe dictator.[/b]"[/LIST]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2857577]Yes, an unfortunate reality for many Americans, unfairly caught in the crosshairs of a deranged wanna be dictator and the crazed QAnon/MAGA right.

But you're not even stafe in your own house, these days. As just a day ago, (2023-Oct-02) beloved community member, Josh Kruger, a (PA) journalist and (LGBTQ) activist (speaking on behalf of undeserved groups in his community) was murdered, shot 7x and [i][u]gunned down inside his home,[/u][/i] just weeks after posting on Facebook (the new address book/Rolodex for the unhinged Q/MAGA cult), that he was threatened. A manhunt is on...


Yep! Or for that matter, Mitt Romney ($5K/day for security), Ray Epps (businesses/life in tatters), Cassidy Hutchinson (exile)...etc.

[/QUOTE]I browse the American Politics forum occasionally. I always find amusing content here. Some of you actually are convinced there was a "coup", that "orange man (who is BAD!) declared himself dictator". Like, wtf are you guys smoking? Holy shit.

I digress though, I still can't fathom why some of you shill for the woke, feminist, infinity-gender crowd so hard. If they had it their way, they would send us all to the slammer for "using our financial advantage to exploit impoverished women! And you KNOW IT!

They especially despise white men. Why a straight white man (who is employed) would argue in favor of these freaks is beyond me.

They don't even TRY to hide their hatred of you, I swear some of you sound like battered wives the way you just take the constant abuse.

You're NEVER going to be "one of them"(why the fuck would you want to anyway? No matter how many times you kneel for BLM, fly the rainbow flag in your yard, express self-hatred for your crimes of being a straight white male, or any of the other virtue signally, victim-Olympics jargon.

LOL. Once again, after Joe Biden and the Dems shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to completely turn around and recover America (and much of the world) from the horrific downturn result of typically disastrous Trump / Repub economic and national security policies and stewardship, in comes the Deadbeat Do Nothing Know Nothing Pink Tinkle Repubs who sat on their butts and did absolutely nothing productive or of value to America for the past 9 months, only to perform one ridiculous Repub Clown Show after another in hopes that their doing so will somehow still achieve the Repub Party dream of destroying the USA economy and weaken our national security and defence.

[B]Fox News' The Five melts down over Rep. Gaetz's successful removal of Rep. McCarthy as speaker of the House.
Jeanine Pirro: What weve got is total chaos[/B]

[URL]https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-five-melts-down-over-rep-gaetzs-successful-removal-rep-mccarthy-speaker-house[/URL]

[QUOTE]I'm with Trump on this. I mean, we're talking about this instead of the border, instead of crime, instead of inflation.[/QUOTE]Maybe it's because if they dare to talk about it someone must unavoidably point out that we need as many immigrants as we can attract by any means necessary in order to help fill the now almost 10 Million more jobs than there are applicants to take them that Bidenomics has created in this historic Dem Recovery from still another Great Repub Crash and Massive Jobs Destruction.

And then someone must unavoidably point out that homicides and violent crime rates, including those in the Red States with the highest homicide and violent crime rates in the country, have been declining since Biden took office after the upward trajectory increase in both on Trump's watch.

And then someone must unavoidably point out that Trump's Pandemic's worldwide economic and supply-chain destruction inevitable recovery inflation has been in sharp and steady decline since Bidenomics was put in place to achieve that goal.

And that, contrary to what classic and iconic Repub Party Leader Trump and his beloved fellow America-haters Putin, Xi and Kim wished and worked for, democracy is far more stable and stronger in America and abroad since Biden defeated Trump.

And that even typically terrified by everything including their own shadow investors in the forward looking stock market can't help but notice Bidenomics bodes very well for America's domestic and Global Economic future.

Among other positives for America that Joe Biden and the Dems had already put into the system long before the Pink Tinkle gerrymandered and creatively redrew itself a handful of Repub districts so they could further impress typically pro Repub Mainstream Media into the astonishingly idiotic election season campaign pitch and assurance that "most people think Republicans are better at handling the economy than Democrats. " Lolololol.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]Uh, sorry, Spidey, your link to the video of Johnathan Turley was not the slam dunk you claimed it was. Turley said the evidence to impeach Joe Biden [b]is not there yet[/b] but he recommended that an [b]inquiry into getting that evidence[/b] if it exists should be done.[/QUOTE]Sure seemed like a slam dunk to me!

But y'all should hear yourselves, [i]"...evidence is not there yet..."[/i] Duh! [i]"...if it exists, it should be done..."[/i] That's exactly what this inquiry was suppose be, one with actual evidence. Not another waste of time, tax-payer "fishing expedition!" The ineptitude of the so called hearing, was just an astounding and epic clown show.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]That is not a Democratic victory.[/QUOTE] Yes, it felt more like a glorious triumph and yet another inept, total disaster and devastating Repub FAILURE.

Hey Elvis, when all else fails, and your fishing expedition comes up empty again, maybe in the meantime, perhaps [b]Rep.Bryon Donalds (FL), can manufacture, fabricate and whip something up for you in Photoshop. [/b] (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]For someone like you who points to facts as opinions that you agree with, the latest fact is Hunter Biden is suing for having his abandoned laptop stolen from him. That said laptop had "all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation" was not a lie by our intelligence experts. We have been treated to everything that goes against Dems as being a Putin plot since 2016. ... [/QUOTE] Still clinging to the impeachment of "President Hunter Biden". Go ahead, knock yourself out! And if real evidence doesn't appear, there's always the "Rep.Bryon Donalds Photoshop option!"

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]When you say this bullshit about Biden and how great a job he has done, I have to ask this, do you live here? Outside of a stock market rally, [b]I do not see shit[/b] that he has done. His economic policies, particularly with green energy are fucking crazy, and I have seen Democrats like Oliver Stone and Roger Moore push back on them.[/QUOTE]

If you're not [i]"seeing shit"[/i] as you claim, may I suggest quit watching FOXY Muse and the "shit" they broadcast, filling your head with "shit". Believe whatever bullshit you want, it seems you don't get enough of it on FOXY Muse and just love being bullshitted to.

Once again, I'm not trying to convince you or your fellow QAnon/MAGA Repub cohorts, of anything. I'll continue to do my best to present/argue the facts and naturally of course, you'll continue to provide your bullshit and lies, provided to you by FOXY Muse, Newsmax, or whatever.

But w/r to the facts, surrounding the great job Biden is doing (and has done since taking office), you can see for yourself, here:

[b]Joe Biden's 23 greatest achievements as president of the United States...so far[/b]
[URL]https://thesmilenews.com/2022/09/30/joe-bidens-23-greatest-achievements-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far/[/URL]

Or here:

[b]What Has Joe Biden Accomplished So Far as the U.S. President?[/b]
[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/01/19/fast-facts-record-firsts-in-president-bidens-first-year/[/URL]

And here:

[b]Fast Facts: Record Firsts in President Bidens First Year [/b]
[URL]https://thesmilenews.com/2022/09/30/joe-bidens-23-greatest-achievements-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far/[/URL]

And here:

[b]Joe Biden's 7 Biggest Achievements During His First Year as President[/b]
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-biggest-achievements-first-year-president-1670763[/URL]


[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]Today is actually the first day people have to pay back on their student loans. Between that and energy prices, I wonder if this will be the fatal blow. To top if off, there is this, https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-f...99-us-counties....[/QUOTE] Is that crocodile tears I see, Elvis? Is this newly found concern of yours, a coming to Jesus, moment?

Could it be, you and your Repubs are genuinely concerned about student debt? Well y'all got a funny way of showing it, when 'twas the Repubs, that introduced legislation to block Biden's student loan repayment program. But words are cheap and Republican words are even cheaper.

And while energy prices are currently manageable for Americans, I don't doubt for a minute, that the authoritarian, fascist dictators and tyrants from oil states like Russia and Saudi Arabia, are
chomping-at-the-bit and most certainly are going to be jacking-up oil and gas prices, in the coming months, to try and tank/panic the economy. Of course with the goal of trying to make Biden look bad and thereby helping Trump, who naturally, they would rather see back in office.

With House Republicans (and Senate to a lesser degree) in disarray and in-fighting, holding the US economy hostage, threats of a imminent government shutdown, bogus impeachment hearings, blocking military appointments (which is harmful to US security and plays into the hands of Russia, China, N.Korea), blocking student repayment loans...etc, it seems to me despite a very dysfunctional GOP, it is Biden and the Dems, that have been holding this country together since he took office.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857100]Yes, everyone against your party minded way of thinking is a lunatic. [/QUOTE]No, you'd be wrong again. Check-back (about a day ago) on a recent post of mine, where
I declare a growing fondness for my Never Trumpers...who knew?

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2857617]I browse the American Politics forum occasionally. I always find amusing content here. Some of you actually are convinced there was a "coup", that "orange man (who is BAD!) declared himself dictator". Like, wtf are you guys smoking? Holy shit.

I digress though, I still can't fathom why some of you shill for the woke, feminist, infinity-gender crowd so hard. If they had it their way, they would send us all to the slammer for "using our financial advantage to exploit impoverished women! And you KNOW IT!

They especially despise white men. Why a straight white man (who is employed) would argue in favor of these freaks is beyond me.

They don't even TRY to hide their hatred of you, I swear some of you sound like battered wives the way you just take the constant abuse.

You're NEVER going to be "one of them"(why the fuck would you want to anyway? No matter how many times you kneel for BLM, fly the rainbow flag in your yard, express self-hatred for your crimes of being a straight white male, or any of the other virtue signally, victim-Olympics jargon.[/QUOTE]"Wokism" is a product of your imagination, fears and nightmares. It only exists in the heads of frustrated Wingers. You can relax. Nobody is going to force you to date, fuck or marry someone of another race or change your sexual identity.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2857654][b]It must be nice to be a Deadbeat Do Nothing Know Nothing Pink Tinkle Repub.[/b]

LOL. Once again, after Joe Biden and the Dems shouldered all the heavy lifting and assumed all the political risk to completely turn around and recover America (and much of the world) from the horrific downturn result of typically disastrous Trump / Repub economic and national security policies and stewardship, in comes the Deadbeat Do Nothing Know Nothing Pink Tinkle Repubs who sat on their butts and did absolutely nothing productive or of value to America for the past 9 months, only to perform one ridiculous Repub Clown Show after another in hopes that their doing so will somehow still achieve the Repub Party dream of destroying the USA economy and weaken our national security and defence. ... [/QUOTE]

Where does one start with such "historic" Repub dysfunction?

We have now watched Repubs disembowel and eviscerate 4 of their last 5 Repub House Speakers (from Newt Gingrich, John Boehner, Paul Ryan and now Kevin McCarthy), all inept, dysfunctional, weak and unable to control their party, as they are ousted or resign the chair in disgrace.

This is yet another prime example of their inept ability to govern, largely because they have no governing philosophy, ethnics and morale compass or lack there of.

How can we expect Americans, in good conscience, to give the Repubs power, when this is the type of disjointed, dysfunctional, chaotic mess they create, time and time again?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2857654] [b]Fox News' The Five melts down over Rep. Gaetz's successful removal of Rep. McCarthy as speaker of the House.[/b]

Jeanine Pirro: [b]What weve got is total chaos[/b] [URL]https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-new...-speaker-house [/URL] [/QUOTE] This "meltdown" headline is just golden. I'm still laughing, at the previous fallout and meltdown at FOXY Muse, from the "Dominion-Fucker Carlsongate" debacle/scandal. I'm surprised they can see past their own bullshit at FOXY Muse.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2857738]"Wokism" is a product of your imagination, fears and nightmares. It only exists in the heads of frustrated Wingers. You can relax. Nobody is going to force you to date, fuck or marry someone of another race or change your sexual identity.[/QUOTE]Popular culture is rife with "wokism". The majority of movies and TV series currently have some form of cultural agenda. It's actually harder to find shows and movies that don't contain woke bullshit. Even some left wingers complain about it. The woke crowd is incapable of creating anything on their own, so they just insert women, "people of color", gays and tranny freaks into existing genres.

Years ago, the Christians had moral authority, but now the pendulum has swung the other way and it's the left who wield moral authority in America. They brow-beat and proselytize the virtues of victimhood Olympics, and blaming the straight white man for everything.

Funny thing is, the guardians of feminism can't even tell you what a "woman" is. I highly recommend watching "what is a woman? A documentary by Matt Walsh. He talks to a lot of woke folk (who EihTooms doesn't believe exist). It's hilarious how almost all left wingers are afraid to answer that question. And the ones who do answer, say dumb things like: "a woman is whatever someone thinks a woman is". Or "I'm not an expert! I don't know! And these fucking people vote! Holy shit!

We truly do live in a ClownWorld.

Anyway, I don't understand why a straight white man would support a group that fucking hates him, but then again, Epstein was a straight white man, what party did he support? I guess I'm starting to understand some of you.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2857713]

But w/r to the facts, surrounding the great job Biden is doing (and has done since taking office), you can see for yourself, here:

[b]Joe Biden's 23 greatest achievements as president of the United States...so far[/b]
[URL]https://thesmilenews.com/2022/09/30/joe-bidens-23-greatest-achievements-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far/[/URL]

Or here:

[b]What Has Joe Biden Accomplished So Far as the U.S. President?[/b]
[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/01/19/fast-facts-record-firsts-in-president-bidens-first-year/[/URL]

And here:

[b]Fast Facts: Record Firsts in President Bidens First Year [/b]
[URL]https://thesmilenews.com/2022/09/30/joe-bidens-23-greatest-achievements-as-president-of-the-united-states-so-far/[/URL]

And here:

[b]Joe Biden's 7 Biggest Achievements During His First Year as President[/b]
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-biggest-achievements-first-year-president-1670763[/URL]


Is that crocodile tears I see, Elvis? Is this newly found concern of yours, a coming to Jesus, moment?[/QUOTE]If there were any tears it would be my laughing. The top two accomplishments were massive spending bills. Another was the mass vaccination that did not work, and just today, zero hedge had an article on how the Biden administration is lying and says there were no vaccine mandates. Then there was crime and Afghanistan. LOL Really? Bragging about boosting IRS spending? Oh boy. Ukraine? You are killing me Spidy. I am laughing so hard I might stroke.

I cannot believe how many of these "accomplishments" were either taking money from citizens and spending it on worthless crap or printing up money and spending it on crap and then I found one (Hurray!) where Biden actually saved the taxpayer's money: Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending. You have shown me one good thing Biden has done Spidey! Congrats!

Of course, Biden said that increased government spending does not lead to inflation. Bidenomics is supply and demand does not exist. This reminds me of the old Soviet joke where a communist leader was told that he couldn't land a space ship on the sun because it was too hot and said "No problem, we will just land the space ship at night. ".

I have been waiting for this train wreck to hit. I knew it was coming with George W when shit got so expensive in the third world that things had to break. The real estate craze was world wide, and I remember going to Paraguay (fucking Paraguay!) and seeing a decent home costing $250 k, and the average salary there was $4 k. That is what a bubble central banks blew with real estate.

And we are here again. The stock market, which I thought had been good, is actually down outside of seven huge tech stocks. Interest rates are through the roof, and home prices once again are fucking nuts. The only thing left is the timing. Are the interest rates / inflation going to cause the recession prior to the election?

This country still has not paid the bill for the stupidity that was Covid, and you and fellow Democratic douches can keep lying about it ("There were no lockdowns, vaccine mandates, or mask mandates") but lying about it and censoring people who catch you lying about it is not going to make that debt go away. We are due for another great recession. We have to have one to get inflation under control just like was the case in 2008-2009.

When have Christians exhibited morality? Certainly not in the current disunited states of North America.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2857838]Where does one start with such "historic" Repub dysfunction?

[B]We have now watched Repubs disembowel and eviscerate 4 of their last 5 Repub House Speakers (from Newt Gingrich, John Boehner, Paul Ryan and now Kevin McCarthy), all inept, dysfunctional, weak and unable to control their party, as they are ousted or resign the chair in disgrace.[/b]

This is yet another prime example of their inept ability to govern, largely because they have no governing philosophy, ethnics and morale compass or lack there of.

How can we expect Americans, in good conscience, to give the Repubs power, when this is the type of disjointed, dysfunctional, chaotic mess they create, time and time again?

This "meltdown" headline is just golden. I'm still laughing, at the previous fallout and meltdown at FOXY Muse, from the "Dominion-Fucker Carlsongate" debacle/scandal. I'm surprised they can see past their own bullshit at FOXY Muse.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the one Republican Speaker of the House they loved so much they did not drive him out in humiliation was also the longest serving Republican Speaker of the House in history; Dennis Hastert.

Oh, he also became a convicted felon for financial crimes related to his sexual abuse of teenage boys.

Which does add historical background credence to the Pink Tinkle push to now make Donald J. Trump their most beloved Republican Speaker of the House.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2857875]Popular culture is rife with "wokism". The majority of movies and TV series currently have some form of cultural agenda. It's actually harder to find shows and movies that don't contain woke bullshit. Even some left wingers complain about it. The woke crowd is incapable of creating anything on their own, so they just insert women, "people of color", gays and tranny freaks into existing genres.

Years ago, the Christians had moral authority, but now the pendulum has swung the other way and it's the left who wield moral authority in America. They brow-beat and proselytize the virtues of victimhood Olympics, and blaming the straight white man for everything.

Funny thing is, the guardians of feminism can't even tell you what a "woman" is. I highly recommend watching "what is a woman? A documentary by Matt Walsh. He talks to a lot of woke folk (who EihTooms doesn't believe exist). It's hilarious how almost all left wingers are afraid to answer that question. And the ones who do answer, say dumb things like: "a woman is whatever someone thinks a woman is". Or "I'm not an expert! I don't know! And these fucking people vote! Holy shit!

We truly do live in a ClownWorld.

Anyway, I don't understand why a straight white man would support a group that fucking hates him, but then again, Epstein was a straight white man, what party did he support? I guess I'm starting to understand some of you.[/QUOTE]What you are seeing is simple cultural and demographic change in taste.

Guys like Bill Maher whine, cry and complain about universities being too "woke" to invite him to appear. They just don't think his jokes are funny enough to invite him anymore. I am sure there are universities in Ruby Red States he could appear in every week if he wanted to. Same with Adam Carolla. Maybe he just doesn't want to go to those universities and is waiting for UCLA or USC students to love his jokes again.

BTW, I don't know anyone who votes for or supports the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party in order to be "loved" by anyone or who gives a shit who hates them.

I do it because I much prefer Great Dem Recoveries, Economic Expansions and Historic Jobs Creation over Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Jobs Destruction. The former is much better for the cash flow from the tenants in my California rental property than the latter. I really don't give a shit whether or not a healthy rental market income for my business makes anyone of any race or sexual identity love me.

Instead of this imaginary "wokism" bothering me, the cultural issue I am more bothered by are the Repub Governors' actual legislation and moves to remove, ban, monitor or burn books that make their idiotic Repub base feel uncomfortable unless they assert that "There were very fine people on both sides of The Holocaust" or "There were very fine people on both sides of a lynching" and so on.

Because that actually uses law to promote stupidity. And stupidity is generally not good for a national economy or job markets that support my rent rates.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2857875] ... Funny thing is, the [b]guardians of feminism[/b] can't even tell you [b]what a "woman" is[/b]. ... [/QUOTE]Well, it looks like we have the genuine article, a member from the [i]"[b]non[/b]-guardians of feminism"[/i] (whatever that is? As I take it, that is what you'd be, based on your "guardians of feminism" comment), right here in the hallowed hall/forums of ISG.

So brother, why don't you just tell us, [i]"what a women is?"[/i] So as to set the record straight (no pun intended), about women.

Also curious, if the [i]"[b]non[/b]-guardians of feminism"[/i] can also tell us, [i]"what a man is?"[/i]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2857887]If there were any tears it would be my laughing. The top two accomplishments were massive spending bills. Another was the mass vaccination that did not work, and just today, zero hedge had an article on how the Biden administration is lying and says there were no vaccine mandates. Then there was crime and Afghanistan. LOL Really? Bragging about boosting IRS spending? Oh boy. Ukraine? You are killing me Spidy. I am laughing so hard I might stroke.

I cannot believe how many of these "accomplishments" were either taking money from citizens and spending it on worthless crap or printing up money and spending it on crap and then I found one (Hurray!) where Biden actually saved the taxpayer's money: Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending. You have shown me one good thing Biden has done Spidey! Congrats!

Of course, Biden said that increased government spending does not lead to inflation. Bidenomics is supply and demand does not exist. This reminds me of the old Soviet joke where a communist leader was told that he couldn't land a space ship on the sun because it was too hot and said "No problem, we will just land the space ship at night.[/QUOTE]If you want responsible Dems with a sterling record of pulling us out of Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction to stop passing massive government spending bills in order to produce those sterling Recovery results you must immediately stop voting in such a way that puts Repubs in a position to produce Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction.

The best way to achieve that condition is to vote Dem straight down the ballot in every election for which you are qualified to register and vote and urge everyone you know to do the same.

Not voting will not achieve that condition.

Voting for any candidates other than the Dems won't do it.

Only voting for the Dems straight down every ballot will do it.

Pass it along.

The goal should be to never have fewer than 250 Dems in the House. Never.

And to never have fewer Dems in the Senate than 65. Never.

And to never put anyone in the White House except a Dem. Never.

Then the USA will very, very likely never have a Great Depression, Great Recession, Skyrocketing Unemployment Rates, Massive Jobs Destruction, inevitable Recovery Inflation or insurmountable Deficit Spending again.

Wouldn't that be nice? You bet it would.

Voting in any other way introduces huge levels of unnecessary risk that we will suffer all the crap you are always complaining about over and over and over and over again.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2857914]Also curious, if the [i]"[b]non[/b]-guardians of feminism"[/i] can also tell us, [i]"what a man is?"[/i][/QUOTE]Well, my Adams apple and dick are a dead giveaway.

If I paid a surgeon to chop my dick off, and carve a nasty gash where my dick used to be, it wouldn't make me a woman. It would make me a man with a mutilated dick. It's really that simple.

Do you honestly not know if you are a man or a woman?

"What you are seeing is simple cultural and demographic change in taste.

Guys like Bill Maher whine, cry and complain about universities being too "woke" to invite him to appear. They just don't think his jokes are funny enough to invite him anymore. I am sure there are universities in Ruby Red States he could appear in every week if he wanted to. Same with Adam Carolla. Maybe he just doesn't want to go to those universities and is waiting for UCLA or USC students to love his jokes again.

BTW, I don't know anyone who votes for or supports the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party in order to be "loved" by anyone or who gives a shit who hates them.

I do it because I much prefer Great Dem Recoveries, Economic Expansions and Historic Jobs Creation over Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Jobs Destruction. The former is much better for the cash flow from the tenants in my California rental property than the latter. I really don't give a shit whether or not a healthy rental market income for my business makes anyone of any race or sexual identity love me.

Instead of this imaginary "wokism" bothering me, the cultural issue I am more bothered by are the Repub Governors' actual legislation and moves to remove, ban, monitor or burn books that make their idiotic Repub base feel uncomfortable unless they assert that "There were very fine people on both sides of The Holocaust" or "There were very fine people on both sides of a lynching" and so on.

Because that actually uses law to promote stupidity. And stupidity is generally not good for a national economy or job markets that support my rent rates. ".

Seriously you don't think it exists? Ok then tell us Baghdad Bob when was the last time you even stepped foot in the USA?

How many years? Decades?

[URL]https://www.aol.com/worried-democrats-joe-bidens-lackluster-090825811.html[/URL]

Allahu Akbar.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2858142]"What you are seeing is simple cultural and demographic change in taste.

Guys like Bill Maher whine, cry and complain about universities being too "woke" to invite him to appear. They just don't think his jokes are funny enough to invite him anymore. I am sure there are universities in Ruby Red States he could appear in every week if he wanted to. Same with Adam Carolla. Maybe he just doesn't want to go to those universities and is waiting for UCLA or USC students to love his jokes again.

BTW, I don't know anyone who votes for or supports the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party in order to be "loved" by anyone or who gives a shit who hates them.

I do it because I much prefer Great Dem Recoveries, Economic Expansions and Historic Jobs Creation over Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Jobs Destruction. The former is much better for the cash flow from the tenants in my California rental property than the latter. I really don't give a shit whether or not a healthy rental market income for my business makes anyone of any race or sexual identity love me.

Instead of this imaginary "wokism" bothering me, the cultural issue I am more bothered by are the Repub Governors' actual legislation and moves to remove, ban, monitor or burn books that make their idiotic Repub base feel uncomfortable unless they assert that "There were very fine people on both sides of The Holocaust" or "There were very fine people on both sides of a lynching" and so on.

Because that actually uses law to promote stupidity. And stupidity is generally not good for a national economy or job markets that support my rent rates. ".

Seriously you don't think it exists? Ok then tell us Baghdad Bob when was the last time you even stepped foot in the USA?

How many years? Decades?

[URL]https://www.aol.com/worried-democrats-joe-bidens-lackluster-090825811.html[/URL]

Allahu Akbar.[/QUOTE]Oh I see. So this imaginary "wokism" only happens in person at bus stops, shopping malls and such.

Thanks for the info.

Because I hear and see zero evidence of anyone whining and crying about it IN THE MEDIA being prevented from saying anything they damn please as long as it is legal to say it.

Do tell us, what has "wokism" prevented you from saying or doing at those bus stops and inside the McDonalds at your local mall? I could use a big, weepy, imaginary sob story about now.

Thanks EihTooms!

I was just about to make said correction, to my 4 out 5, disgraced Repub speakers of the House post. Leave it to Repubs to make it 5 out of 5. (...kkkk!)

But as you've eloquently highlighted, the [i]"historical background credence to the Pink Tinkle",[/i] w/r to Trump, now (as well as once before) [b]being courted[/b] as the new speaker, one has to wonder and it does beg the question:

[b]Q.[/b] "Is having sexual abuse or 'pussy grabbing' skills on your resume, Republican [b]must have[/b] requirements for the Republican candidacy for Speaker of the House?"

(...Hmmmmmmmm! ...Hey boys and girls, can you say, [i]"Republican Pizza-gate"[/i] ...kkkk!)

PS: Trump as speaker, would really bring things full-circle!

As sperto says, save yourself the trouble and add to ignore list.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2858099]Well, my Adams apple and dick are a dead giveaway.

If I paid a surgeon to chop my dick off, and carve a nasty gash where my dick used to be, it wouldn't make me a woman. It would make me a man with a mutilated dick. It's really that simple.

Do you honestly not know if you are a man or a woman?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2858067]If you want responsible Dems with a sterling record of pulling us out of Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction to stop passing massive government spending bills in order to produce those sterling Recovery results you must immediately stop voting in such a way that puts Repubs in a position to produce Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction.

The best way to achieve that condition is to vote Dem straight down the ballot in every election for which you are qualified to register and vote and urge everyone you know to do the same.

Not voting will not achieve that condition.

Voting for any candidates other than the Dems won't do it.

Only voting for the Dems straight down every ballot will do it.

Pass it along.

The goal should be to never have fewer than 250 Dems in the House. Never.

And to never have fewer Dems in the Senate than 65. Never.

And to never put anyone in the White House except a Dem. Never.

Then the USA will very, very likely never have a Great Depression, Great Recession, Skyrocketing Unemployment Rates, Massive Jobs Destruction, inevitable Recovery Inflation or insurmountable Deficit Spending again.

Wouldn't that be nice? You bet it would.

Voting in any other way introduces huge levels of unnecessary risk that we will suffer all the crap you are always complaining about over and over and over and over again.[/QUOTE]You have one party who 8 members can vote out their leader with 210 confident votes. Another party voted as one unit. You have one side with total disfunction and can't get things together among themselves, while the other are actually writing bills that get passed and signed into law. I will agree with you on the current political environment. However, I disagree with "only" dems or repubs is the only way to solve problems for the country. I will agree that electing competent people is the way to go. Currently, you may be correct, but it is not forever because human will figure a way to be corrupt.

This is how I selected my congressman in when he was not the incumbent: How does your past experience qualify you for the job? Do you seem like a person of good character? Fairly low bars.

This is how I select my congressman when he is the incumbent: Did you write or sponsor bills that has affected me positively? Were you successful in those bills? What was the circumstances on why those bills were not successful? How many bills were you involved with during your 2 years? Higher requirements when asking for continuation of a job.

This should be applied to every election. When I go to work, I don't get to keep my job if I don't do a good job. We are too lazy to ask more of incumbents, when that's exactly how we should treat them, as employees. Primaries are great for your side if he / she wins. General elections is when you want the right person, and sometimes that's a hard decision if he / she is not your primary choice. It's funny to me that tribalism sometime trumps what you believe is right and wrong.

[QUOTE=CheckMate1;2858317]You have one party who 8 members can vote out their leader with 210 confident votes. Another party voted as one unit. You have one side with total disfunction and can't get things together among themselves, while the other are actually writing bills that get passed and signed into law. I will agree with you on the current political environment. However, I disagree with "only" dems or repubs is the only way to solve problems for the country. I will agree that electing competent people is the way to go. Currently, you may be correct, but it is not forever because human will figure a way to be corrupt.

This is how I selected my congressman in when he was not the incumbent: How does your past experience qualify you for the job? Do you seem like a person of good character? Fairly low bars.

This is how I select my congressman when he is the incumbent: Did you write or sponsor bills that has affected me positively? Were you successful in those bills? What was the circumstances on why those bills were not successful? How many bills were you involved with during your 2 years? Higher requirements when asking for continuation of a job.

This should be applied to every election. When I go to work, I don't get to keep my job if I don't do a good job. We are too lazy to ask more of incumbents, when that's exactly how we should treat them, as employees. Primaries are great for your side if he / she wins. General elections is when you want the right person, and sometimes that's a hard decision if he / she is not your primary choice. It's funny to me that tribalism sometime trumps what you believe is right and wrong.[/QUOTE]Your approach fits right in with a conventional assumption that voting for The Individual over Party is best.

Unfortunately, I am not aware of any meaningful historical pattern of "an individual" President, Speaker of the House or Senate Majority Leader staking out, proposing, fighting for, signing off on and passing legislation nor stewarding the ship in some wildly opposite direction than where his / her Party has taken it for decades.

Dems still produce every major recovery, expansion and jobs creation while Repubs still produce every major economic disaster. The former Party happens to favor policies and agendas that work very well to produce demonstrably positive results while the latter has been shown to favor policies and agendas that work very well over and over again to produce Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction. Regardless how rude, crude, charming, crazy, normal, happy, sad or indifferent The Individual.

The "Party" is actually in control of what happens at crunch time regardless what "The Individual" claims he / she will do in a campaign or even what they did in their private lives. That is, when The Individual finds themselves in a position to make decisions that effect enough people to matter to a national economy and national security.

Articles like these are why I give the NYT my $$.

Joe Biden 1942-2023 good riddance.

David Brooks.

By David Brooks.

Opinion Columnist.

Sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter Get expert analysis of the news and a guide to the big ideas shaping the world every weekday morning. Get it sent to your inbox.

Nearly two decades ago, I tried to write a group biography about the senators whose offices happened to be on the second floor of the Russell Office Building on Capitol Hill. The group included John McCain, Joe Biden, Lindsey Graham and Chuck Hagel. I got to know and study each of those senators during that long-ago-abandoned project.

The more I covered Biden, the more I came to feel affection and respect for him. Then, as now, he could be a tough boss, occasionally angry and hard on his staff. But throughout his life, Biden has usually been on the side of the underdog. I've rarely met a politician so rooted in the unpretentious middle-class ethos of the neighborhood he grew up in. He has a seemingly instinctive ability to bond with those who are hurting.

Our politics have gotten rougher over the ensuing years but that hasn't dampened Biden's basic humanity. When he was vice president, I remember a searing meeting with him shortly after his son Beau died, his grief raw and on the surface. And like many, I've felt the beam of his empathy and care myself. A year and a half ago, the day after my oldest friend fell victim to suicide, Biden heard about it and called me to offer comfort. He just let me talk about my friend and through his words and tone of voice joined me in the suffering. I experienced the solace of being seen.

He has his faults — the tendency to talk too much, the chip on his shoulder about those who think they are smarter than he is, the gaffes, that episode of plagiarism and the moments of confusion — but I've always thought: Give me a leader who identifies with those who feel looked down upon. Give me a leader whose moral compass generally sends him in the right direction.

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But I've also come to fear and loathe Donald Trump. I cannot fathom what damage that increasingly deranged man might do to this country if given a second term. And the fact is that as the polls and the mood of the electorate stand today, Trump has a decent chance of beating Biden in November of next year and regaining power in 2025.

Voters know both men very well at this point, so when I hear Democrats comforting themselves that people will flock to Biden if the alternative on the ballot is Trump, I worry they are kidding themselves. Biden's approval ratings are stubbornly low. In a recent ABC poll, only 30 percent of voters approve of his handling of the economy and only 23 percent approve of his handling of immigration at the southern border. Roughly three-quarters of American voters say that Biden, at 80, is too old to seek a second term. There have been a string of polls showing that large majorities in his own party don't want him to run again. In one survey from 2022, an astounding 94 percent of Democrats under 30 said they wanted a different nominee.

I thought Biden's favorability ratings would climb as economic growth has remained relatively strong and as inflation has come down. But it just hasn't happened.

So I'm emotionally torn these days, the way so many are — feeling strong affection and appreciation for Joe Biden, and yet feeling gripped simultaneously by a pounding fear that a Biden-led party will lose next year, and lead to a Trumpian Götterdämmerung. Like many Americans, I've found myself having The Conversation over and over again, with friends, sources and people who work in Democratic politics: whether Biden is the best candidate to defeat Trump, his chances of winning, if there's some better course.

Some Democrats tell me in these talks that they hope their party leaders will somehow persuade Biden to retire and open the door for a fresher candidate. Others argue that Biden needs some stiff primary competition. Most of the filing deadlines for the early primaries are approaching — Nevada and New Hampshire this month, Michigan and California and more in December. There's still time for other Democrats to jump in the race.

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But many party leaders act as if this is madness, speaking with a fervor that is loyal but also patronizing: Biden is vehement about running again, and there's zero chance he'll be talked out of it, so Democrats had better just deal with that fact. Plus a serious primary challenge would merely weaken the inevitable Biden candidacy, the way Ted Kennedy weakened Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Pat Buchanan hurt George H. W. Bush in 1992. We just have to pull this guy over the line.

I don't find this passive fatalism compelling. The party's elected officials are basically urging rank-and-file Democrats not to be anxious about a situation that is genuinely anxiety-inducing. Last month Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey told The Times, "This is only a matter of time until the broad party, and broadly speaking, Americans, converge with the opinions of folks like myself. " Really? Surely if there's a lesson we should have learned from the last decade, it's that we should all be listening harder to what the electorate is trying to say.

I've tried to set aside my affection for the man and look anew at the question of Biden and 2024: Should we really do this?

The thing that so many of us are stuck on is Biden's age, of course. On this subject I have some personal observations. I've been interviewing the man for a quarter-century, including during his presidency. The Republicans who portray him as a doddering old man based on highly selective YouTube clips are wrong. In my interviews with him, he's like a pitcher who used to throw 94 miles an hour who now throws 87. He is clearly still an effective pitcher.

People who work with him allow that he does tire more easily, but they say that he is very much the dynamic force driving this administration. In fact, I've noticed some improvements in his communication style as he's aged. He used to try to cram every fact in the known universe into every answer; now he's more disciplined. When he's describing some national problem, he is more crisp and focused than he used to be, clearer on what is the essential point here — more confidence-inspiring, not less.

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What about four or five years from now, at the end of a second term? Will he still be competent enough to lead? Biden is fit, does not smoke or drink alcohol, exercises frequently and has no serious health conditions, according to the White House. A study in The Journal on Active Aging of Biden's and Trump's health records from before the 2020 elections found that both men could qualify as "super-agers" — the demographic that maintains physical and mental functioning beyond age 80.

But Biden's age is obviously and understandably going to be a greater concern than it was in 2020. It seems especially to worry some White House staff members or whoever is trying to cocoon him so he doesn't make a ruinous tumble. But if the president I see in interviews and at speeches is out campaigning next year against an overweight man roughly his own age, then my guess is that public anxieties on this front will diminish.

To me, age isn't Biden's key weakness. Inflation is. I agree with what Michael Tomasky wrote in The New Republic: Biden's domestic legislative accomplishments are as impressive as any other president's in my adult life. Exactly as he should have, he has directed huge amounts of resources to the people and the places that have been left behind by the global economy. By one Treasury Department estimate, more than 80 percent of the investments sparked by the Inflation Reduction Act are going to counties with below-average college graduation rates and nearly 90 percent are being made in counties with below-average wages. That was the medicine a riven country needed.

But it is also true that Biden's team overlearned the lessons of the Obama years. If Barack Obama didn't stimulate the economy enough during the Great Recession, Biden stimulated it too much, contributing to inflation and the sticker shock people are feeling.

Anger about inflation is ripping across the world, and has no doubt helped lower the approval ratings of leaders left, right and center. Biden's 40 percent approval rating may look bad, but in Canada, Justin Trudeau's approval rating is 36; in Germany Olaf Scholz is at 29; in Britain Rishi Sunak is at 28; in France Emmanuel Macron is at 23; and in Japan Fumio Kishida is also at 23. This is a global phenomenon. As the journalist Josh Barro argued recently, "Inflation is the reason Biden could not deliver on his core promise to return the country to normal and the main reason his poll numbers are bad. ".

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Because of inflation, Americans now trust Trump to handle the economy more than Biden. As ABC News reported, voters are looking back and retroactively elevating their opinion of Trump's presidency. When he left office only 38 percent of Americans approved of his performance as president. Today, 48 percent do, his high-water mark.

Inflation also contributes to a corrosive national mood that you might call American Jaundice. Nearly three out of every four Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. Bitterness, cynicism and distrust pervade the body politic. People perceive reality through negative lenses, seeing everything as much worse than it is. At 3. 8 percent, America's unemployment rate is objectively low, but 57 percent of voters say that the unemployment rate is "not so good" or "poor. ".

The nation's bitter state of mind is a self-perpetuating negativity machine. Younger people feel dismissed; the older generations are hogging power. Faith in major institutions is nearing record lows. The country is hungry for some kind of change but is unclear about what that might look like. As the incumbent, Biden will be tasked with trying to tell a good news story of American revival, which is just a tough story to sell in this environment. And Biden is not out there selling it convincingly.

The bracing reality is that Trump's cynicism and fury match the national mood more than Biden's faithful optimism. It's one of the reasons Trump is now leading Biden by 1. 2 percentage points in the RealClearPolitics polling average. It's one of the reasons Trump is in a stronger polling position now than at any point in 2016 or 2020. It's one of the reasons even some Republicans are mystified by the way Democrats are standing pat behind their incumbent.

"They seem hell bent on nominating the one Democrat who would lose to Donald Trump," Karl Rove told me recently. "They've got a lot of talent on their side, let's not kid ourselves," he continued, pointing to younger Democrats like Gretchen Whitmer, Mitch Landrieu, Gavin Newsom and Cory Booker.

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But once you start to think carefully about whether Democrats could nominate one of those non-Biden alternatives, all sorts of other concerns rise into view. First, there is the Kamala Harris problem. If the door were open, the vice president would probably run even though her poll numbers are lower than Biden's. Her shambolic 2020 presidential campaign does not inspire confidence, and her record includes being a leading player on the administration's divisive immigration policies. People can make an all-star wish list of other Democratic nominees, but in the real world there is simply no easy way to push Harris aside.

Then there's the fact that there is no other viable candidate in the Democratic Party with a national base of support. The rising Democratic stars Rove referred to are all talented, but none have compellingly stood on the national stage. In the polling right now, possible candidates not named Biden or Harris are in the low single digits.

Plus, there are good reasons no major Democrat has so far stepped up to mount a challenge. Anyone who did throw a hat in the ring would face such vitriolic contempt from the party establishment, it would probably be career-ending. Such a candidate might also face withering criticism from rank-and-file Democrats. As a former Obama administration official, Dan Pfeiffer, has pointed out, Biden has higher favorability ratings among Democrats than Trump does among Republicans. Democrats may be anxious about the old guy running, but that doesn't mean they'the automatically warm to someone trying to take him down.

Finally, and most important, when you really start to imagine what it would look like if the Democrats didn't nominate Biden, one whopping issue becomes clear.

A lot of the dump-Biden conversations are based on a false premise: that the Democratic Party brand and agenda are somehow strong and popular enough that any number of younger candidates could win the White House in 2024, and that if Biden were just to retire, all sorts of obstacles and troubles would go with him.

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But Biden is not the sole or even primary problem here. To the extent that these things are separable, it's the Democratic Party as a whole that's ailing. The generic congressional ballot is a broad measure of the strength of the congressional party. Democrats are now behind. According to a Morning Consult poll, Americans rate the Democratic Party as a whole as the more ideologically extreme party by a nine-point margin.

When pollsters ask which party is best positioned to address your concerns, here too, Democrats are trailing. In a recent Gallup poll 53 percent of Americans say Republicans will do a better job of keeping America prosperous over the short term while only 39 percent thought that of the Democrats. Fifty-seven percent of Americans said that the Republicans would do a better job keeping America safe, while only 35 percent favor the Democrats. These are historically high Republican advantages.

Here are the hard, unpleasant facts: The Republicans have a likely nominee who is facing 91 charges. The Republicans in Congress are so controlled by a group of performative narcissists, the whole House has been reduced to chaos. And yet they are still leading the Democrats in these sorts of polling measures.

This is about something deeper than Joe Biden's age. More and more people are telling pollsters that the Republicans, not the Democrats, care about people like me.

When I think back to the glory days of the Democratic Party, the days of the New Deal and the Great Society, even to the days when Joe Biden was a young senator being mentored by the likes of Hubert Humphrey, the Democratic Party was at its core a working- and middle-class party. Over the last half-century, the Democrats have become increasingly the party of the well-educated metropolitan class.

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It is not news that the Democrats have been losing white working-class voters ever since the emergence of the Reagan Democrats. But today, the party is bleeding working-class voters of all varieties. As John be. Judis and Ruy Teixeira point out in their forthcoming book, "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?" Democrats have been losing ground among Hispanics for the last few years. In 2012, Barack Obama carried nonwhite voters without a college degree by a 67-point margin. In 2020, Biden carried this group with a 48-point margin. Today, the Democratic ticket leads among this group by a paltry 16 points.

But Democrats are losing something arguably more important than a reliable base of supporters. The party is in danger of letting go of an ethos, a heritage, a tradition. The working-class heart and soul the Democrats cultivated through the Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy years rooted Democratic progressivism in a set of values that emphasized hard work, neighborhood, faith, family and flag. Being connected to Americans' everyday experiences kept the party pinioned to the mainstream.

As the party became dominated by the more educated activist and media sectors, it lost touch with some of what can be called its psychological and emotional power sources. It grew prone to taking flights of fancy in policy and rhetoric, be it Medicare for All or "defund the police," going to places where middle-of-the-road voters would not follow. It became more vulnerable to the insular outlooks of its most privileged and educated members.

This is what happened in 2020. There were moments in that campaign when it looked as if Bernie Sanders was going to run away with the race, sending the party into uncharted ideological waters. Most of the other candidates sprinted leftward. In a June 2019 debate, nine of 10 Democratic presidential candidates raised their hands when asked if they supported decriminalizing border crossings. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand were even further left than their colleagues. The year prior, both of them called for dismantling Immigration and Customs Enforcement. College-educated voters are less worried about illegal immigration than high school-educated voters and that influence showed.

Joe Biden was nominated in 2020 because he was the cure to this malady. He was the guy most plainly with roots in the working and middle class. He was the guy who didn't engage in the culture war and identity politics theatrics. He was the most moderate major candidate in the race. Democrats from James Clyburn on down swung to Biden because he offered the most plausible connection back to the Democrats' working-class soul — and it worked. Biden gave the party what it needed to come back to life.

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And that is the fact I keep returning to. Biden is not what ails the party. As things stand, he is the Democrats' best shot at curing what ails the party.

There is no other potential nominee who is so credibly steeped in knowing what life is like for working- and middle-class people, just as there was no other potential nominee in 2020. After watching him for a quarter-century, I think he is genuinely most comfortable when he is hanging around the kinds of people he grew up with. He doesn't send out any off-putting faculty lounge vibes. On cultural matters he is most defined by what he doesn't do — needlessly offend people with overly academic verbiage and virtue signaling. That is why I worry when he talks too stridently about people on the right, when he name-calls and denounces wide swaths of people as MAGA.

These cultural and spiritual roots give him not just a style but a governing agenda. He has used the presidency to direct resources to those who live in the parts of the country where wages are lower, where education levels are lower, where opportunities are skimpier. Biden's ethos harks back to the ethos of the New Deal Democratic Party, but it also harks forward to something — to a form of center-left politics that is culturally moderate and economically aggressive. Aggressive in investing resources in the left-behind places, aggressive in using industrial policy to revive manufacturing, green tech and other industries, aggressive in using federal largess to bolster the care economy. His administration has put racial justice at the top of the agenda. It has moved the party beyond the technocratic centrism of the Clinton-Obama years.

It is a first glimpse, but only a first glimpse, of a future Democratic Party that could once again compete for working- and middle-class support and would once again rest on its historical values.

Something almost spiritual is at play here, not just about whether the Democrats can win in 2024, but who the Democrats are.

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As I've thought about Biden's chances in 2024, I find myself deeply conscious of all the disadvantages that he and the Democrats have as they try to retain power, and preparing for what that could bring. But I also find myself arriving foursquare at the conclusion that rejecting the president now would be, in the first place, a mistake. He offers the most plausible route toward winning the working- and middle-class groups the Democrats need, the most plausible route toward building a broad-based majority party.

But it would be worse than a mistake. It would be a renunciation of the living stream of people, ideas and values that flow at the living depths of the party, a stream that propelled its past glories and still points toward future ones.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857887]You are killing me Spidy. I am laughing so hard I might stroke. ... You are killing me Spidy. I am laughing so hard [b]I might stroke. [/b] ... Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act ... [/QUOTE]Sorry to hear about [i]"the bad head ticker"[/i], old chum! Yes, please see a doctor, before you and that head of yours (explodes? and) can't take another round of good news about the resilient Biden US economy. But the real good news, as you've mentioned, is that your meds (for your stroke of course) will be so much cheaper.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857887]I cannot believe how many of these "accomplishments" were either taking money from citizens and spending it on worthless crap or printing up money and spending it on crap ... [/QUOTE]Yeh, I'm sure you'd rather the money go to billionaires, as you wait for the crumbs from their pink-trickle-down economics table.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2857887]I have been waiting for this train wreck to hit. I knew it was coming with George W ... And we are here again. The stock market, which I thought had been good, is actually down outside of seven huge tech stocks. Interest rates are through the roof, and home prices once again are fucking nuts. The only thing left is the timing. Are the interest rates / inflation going to cause the recession prior to the election? [/QUOTE] Hey you've been pontificating this for some time now. Well as the saying goes, [i]"...even the sun shines up a dogs ass some days". [/i]

[U]Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO) when speaking on Good Morning Joe (05-Oct-2023):[/u][LIST]"I think it's absolutely disgusting, I think people should be [b]imprisoned[/b] for actions like that..." [i] {Referring to Rep.Gaetz (R-FL) sending out fund-raising plea tweets, requesting money, as he torpedoes parliament, the House Speaker and the economy}[/i]

"Look we all know it's more expensive to do business here, from a tax, labour and environmental compliance perspective, but the one reason people continue to invest in the US, is because there is a stable regulatory governing body and a legal climate."

"What Matt Gaetz, just did, was to blow-up that up. He created instability in already challenging economy and an already challenging and divisive country. This was the wrong move and incredibly selfish....The guy needs money like he needs a hole in his head. This is as "swampy as it gets". This was all done for ego and for selfish reasons."[/LIST]
I include this quote from Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO), to illustrate even more profoundly what my last post was trying to impart on you. Which again, was that Joe [b]"Biden's great US stewardship ... despite dysfunctional Repubs".[/b]

Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO) quote, is a perfect example of Repubs, fucking things up! Meanwhile the Dems are doing their jobs, fulfilling their fiduciary duties, putting the country back in order and in good standing, for their constituency and all American people and NOT JUST the billionaires and the lunatic fringe.

So you may get yet your recession, but thank your lucky stars, the Repubs won't be in power, if happens.

BTW, is would appear you love to bet on recessions? Well if that's the case Elvis, [u]you're own betting stats[/u] would tell you that, [b]YOU WOULD HAVE:[/b] made more money, betting a recession would occur (or the economy tanking precipitously), when I Repub Pres. was in office vs. when a Dem Pres. as been office. That is of course, if you' re worth your salt as a betting man?

"If you want responsible Dems with a sterling record of pulling us out of Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction to stop passing massive government spending bills in order to produce those sterling Recovery results you must immediately stop voting in such a way that puts Repubs in a position to produce Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions and Massive Repub Jobs Destruction.

The best way to achieve that condition is to vote Dem straight down the ballot in every election for which you are qualified to register and vote and urge everyone you know to do the same.

Not voting will not achieve that condition.

Voting for any candidates other than the Dems won't do it.

Only voting for the Dems straight down every ballot will do it.

Pass it along.

The goal should be to never have fewer than 250 Dems in the House. Never.

And to never have fewer Dems in the Senate than 65. Never.

And to never put anyone in the White House except a Dem. Never.

Then the USA will very, very likely never have a Great Depression, Great Recession, Skyrocketing Unemployment Rates, Massive Jobs Destruction, inevitable Recovery Inflation or insurmountable Deficit Spending again.

Wouldn't that be nice? You bet it would.

Voting in any other way introduces huge levels of unnecessary risk that we will suffer all the crap you are always complaining about over and over and over and over again. ".

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA[/URL]

Aw. And after Bill worked so hard to line up guests to present as much of a Dem / Biden-Bashing pro-Repub Campaign Rally as he could for his big return show last week, calculating it would be his highest rated one ever!

This accessment by Gen. Milley might serve to counter Maher's opening that show with a joke based one of his new favorite Repub talking point lies that "unlike Law and Order, Rule of Law Repubs, soft on crime Democrats have legalized shoplifting," closing with that Grand Finale about how old Biden will come off at the debates vs how youthful, robust and healthy Donald "Please, somebody help me waddle down this ramp" Covefe Trump is by comparison even after defeating Barack Obama in 2016 and brilliantly avoiding plunging us into "World War 2"!

So, you know, better for the Dems to choose another candidate that every Repub will harbor an irrational hated for anyway, right, Bill? LOL.

[B]Gen. Milley addresses President Biden's age[/B]

[URL]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-biden-general-mark-milley-60-minutes/[/URL]

[QUOTE]Milley, in his role as the nation's highest ranking military officer, regularly met with Mr. Biden. He said the president was "fine" each time.

"How people interpret that is up to them, but I engage with him frequently and alert, sound, does his homework, reads the papers, reads all the read-ahead material. And he's very, very engaging in issues of very serious matters of war and peace and life and death," Milley said.

"So if the American people are worried about an individual who is, you know, someone who's making decisions of war and peace and has access to, you know, makes the decisions of nuclear weapons and that sort of thing, I think they can rest easy."[/QUOTE]I hear Maher is feverishly trying to book Gen. Michael Flynn on his show ASAP in order to, you know, provide a typically fair and balanced virulently pro Repub "Bothsider" elaboration on how much younger, robust and healthy Donald "inject me with everything you've got to save my life from the virus I blatantly lied to convince the world was already disappearing without a vaccine many months ago" Trump is than Joe "fine, alert, sound, does his homework, reads the papers, reads all the read-ahead material, very, very engaging in issues of very serious matters of life and death" Biden.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858366]Sorry to hear about [i]"the bad head ticker"[/i], old chum! Yes, please see a doctor, before you and that head of yours (explodes? and) can't take another round of good news about the resilient Biden US economy. But the real good news, as you've mentioned, is that your meds (for your stroke of course) will be so much cheaper.

Yeh, I'm sure you'd rather the money go to billionaires, as you wait for the crumbs from their pink-trickle-down economics table.

Hey you've been pontificating this for some time now. Well as the saying goes, [i]"...even the sun shines up a dogs ass some days". [/i]

[U]Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO) when speaking on Good Morning Joe (05-Oct-2023):[/u][LIST]"I think it's absolutely disgusting, I think people should be [b]imprisoned[/b] for actions like that..." [i] {Referring to Rep.Gaetz (R-FL) sending out fund-raising plea tweets, requesting money, as he torpedoes parliament, the House Speaker and the economy}[/i]

"Look we all know it's more expensive to do business here, from a tax, labour and environmental compliance perspective, but the one reason people continue to invest in the US, is because there is a stable regulatory governing body and a legal climate."

"What Matt Gaetz, just did, was to blow-up that up. He created instability in already challenging economy and an already challenging and divisive country. This was the wrong move and incredibly selfish....The guy needs money like he needs a hole in his head. This is as "swampy as it gets". This was all done for ego and for selfish reasons."[/LIST]
I include this quote from Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO), to illustrate even more profoundly what my last post was trying to impart on you. Which again, was that Joe [b]"Biden's great US stewardship ... despite dysfunctional Repubs".[/b]

Rep.Garrat Graves (R-LO) quote, is a perfect example of Repubs, fucking things up! Meanwhile the Dems are doing their jobs, fulfilling their fiduciary duties, putting the country back in order and in good standing, for their constituency and all American people and NOT JUST the billionaires and the lunatic fringe.

So you may get yet your recession, but thank your lucky stars, the Repubs won't be in power, if happens.

BTW, is would appear you love to bet on recessions? Well if that's the case Elvis, [u]you're own betting stats[/u] would tell you that, [b]YOU WOULD HAVE:[/b] made more money, betting a recession would occur (or the economy tanking precipitously), when I Repub Pres. was in office vs. when a Dem Pres. as been office. That is of course, if you' re worth your salt as a betting man?[/QUOTE]In order to achieve their classic Repub Party goal of crashing the USA economy, this time in the midst of this current Great Dem Recovery and Historic Jobs Creation, before November 2024, the Repub Pink Tinkle Majority in the House has no choice but to threaten government shutdowns every few weeks until then.

This one is just too solid across the board.

Being "better at handling the economy than the Democrats", as Mainstream Media works so hard to plant in the heads of the electorate by any means possible, the Repub Party's success rate in Doing Nothing, Knowing Nothing, wiping out millions upon millions of jobs and thousand upon thousands of businesses, skyrocketing the unemployment rate and deficit spending with nothing to show for it and shutting down the government to convince all other budding Captialist democracies around the world to immediately drop such a dumb idea is second to none.

In fact, I think it is the only political entity in any democracy on the planet that achieves that goal over and over and over again yet still somehow manages to exist. Kudos to pro-Repub "Bothsiders" like those found in Mainstream Media, here and Bill Maher for that I suppose.

[QUOTE=Vagabundo1;2858309]As sperto says, save yourself the trouble and add to ignore list.[/QUOTE]What else can you do? You know that I'm right. There's no "argument" for you to win here.

As the saying goes:

You can stay silent and let people think you are an idiot, or you can open your mouth and prove it.

"In order to achieve their classic Repub Party goal of crashing the USA economy, this time in the midst of this current Great Dem Recovery and Historic Jobs Creation, before November 2024, the Repub Pink Tinkle Majority in the House has no choice but to threaten government shutdowns every few weeks until then.

This one is just too solid across the board.

Being "better at handling the economy than the Democrats", as Mainstream Media works so hard to plant in the heads of the electorate by any means possible, the Repub Party's success rate in Doing Nothing, Knowing Nothing, wiping out millions upon millions of jobs and thousand upon thousands of businesses, skyrocketing the unemployment rate and deficit spending with nothing to show for it and shutting down the government to convince all other budding Captialist democracies around the world to immediately drop such a dumb idea is second to none.

In fact, I think it is the only political entity in any democracy on the planet that achieves that goal over and over and over again yet still somehow manages to exist. Kudos to pro-Repub "Bothsiders" like those found in Mainstream Media, here and Bill Maher for that I suppose. "

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/10/07/maher-emotional-truth-is-just-a-euphemism-for-lefty-conspiracy-theories/[/URL]

In order to achieve their classic Repub Party goal of crashing the USA economy, this time in the midst of this current Great Dem Recovery and Historic Jobs Creation, before November 2024, the Repub Pink Tinkle Majority in the House has no choice but to threaten government shutdowns every few weeks until then.

This one is just too solid across the board.

Being "better at handling the economy than the Democrats", as Mainstream Media works so hard to plant in the heads of the electorate by any means possible, the Repub Party's success rate in Doing Nothing, Knowing Nothing, wiping out millions upon millions of jobs and thousand upon thousands of businesses, skyrocketing the unemployment rate and deficit spending with nothing to show for it and shutting down the government to convince all other budding Captialist democracies around the world to immediately drop such a dumb idea is second to none.

In fact, I think it is the only political entity in any democracy on the planet that achieves that goal over and over and over again yet still somehow manages to exist. Kudos to pro-Repub "Bothsiders" like those found in Mainstream Media, here and Bill Maher for that I suppose.

Black mayors screaming finish orange mans wall.

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/10/06/maher-sanctuary-city-hypocrite-dems-got-their-bluff-called/[/URL]

Blacks are voting orange man 2024.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/dramatic-spike-in-tb-cases-overwhelms-nyc-health-dept/[/URL]

"Aw. And after Bill worked so hard to line up guests to present as much of a Dem / Biden-Bashing pro-Repub Campaign Rally as he could for his big return show last week, calculating it would be his highest rated one ever!

This accessment by Gen. Milley might serve to counter Maher's opening that show with a joke based one of his new favorite Repub talking point lies that "unlike Law and Order, Rule of Law Repubs, soft on crime Democrats have legalized shoplifting," closing with that Grand Finale about how old Biden will come off at the debates vs how youthful, robust and healthy Donald "Please, somebody help me waddle down this ramp" Covefe Trump is by comparison even after defeating Barack Obama in 2016 and brilliantly avoiding plunging us into "World War 2"!

So, you know, better for the Dems to choose another candidate that every Repub will harbor an irrational hated for anyway, right, Bill? LOL.

Gen. Milley addresses President Biden's age.

[URL]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-biden-general-mark-milley-60-minutes/[/URL]

I hear Maher is feverishly trying to book Gen. Michael Flynn on his show ASAP in order to, you know, provide a typically fair and balanced virulently pro Repub "Bothsider" elaboration on how much younger, robust and healthy Donald "inject me with everything you've got to save my life from the virus I blatantly lied to convince the world was already disappearing without a vaccine many months ago" Trump is than Joe "fine, alert, sound, does his homework, reads the papers, reads all the read-ahead material, very, very engaging in issues of very serious matters of life and death" Biden. ".

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/sicko-commits-disturbing-sex-assault-on-nyc-subway-train/[/URL]

A Brooklyn sicko stood above a sleeping 22-year-old female straphanger on an and train in Greenwood Heights and ejaculated on her face early Friday before fleeing.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/03/man-arrested-for-breaking-into-manhattan-murder-victims-apartment-in-april-is-person-of-interest-in-her-shooting-death/[/URL]

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/03/disturbing-video-shows-moment-beloved-activist-poet-is-randomly-stabbed-to-death-in-front-of-girlfriend-on-nyc-street/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/philadelphia-police-identify-suspect-journalist-192711626.html?fbclid=IwAR3Hgr2aZp4-fGjH6xZb6vEOCTHSU1ENb1A5C21dB2L0ZhuwYACr8EKvqao[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2858355]Articles like these are why I give the NYT my $$.

Joe Biden 1942-2023 good riddance.

David Brooks.

By David Brooks.

Opinion Columnist.

Sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter Get expert analysis of the news and a guide to the big ideas shaping the world every weekday morning. Get it sent to your inbox.

Nearly two decades ago, I tried to write a group biography about the senators whose offices happened to be on the second floor of the Russell Office Building on Capitol Hill. The group included John McCain, Joe Biden, Lindsey Graham and Chuck Hagel. I got to know and study each of those senators during that long-ago-abandoned project.

The more I covered Biden, the more I came to feel affection and respect for him. Then, as now, he could be a tough boss, occasionally angry and hard on his staff. But throughout his life, Biden has usually been on the side of the underdog. I've rarely met a politician so rooted in the unpretentious middle-class ethos of the neighborhood he grew up in. He has a seemingly instinctive ability to bond with those who are hurting.

Our politics have gotten rougher over the ensuing years but that hasn't dampened Biden's basic humanity. When he was vice president, I remember a searing meeting with him shortly after his son Beau died, his grief raw and on the surface. And like many, I've felt the beam of his empathy and care myself. A year and a half ago, the day after my oldest friend fell victim to suicide, Biden heard about it and called me to offer comfort. He just let me talk about my friend and through his words and tone of voice joined me in the suffering. I experienced the solace of being seen.

He has his faults the tendency to talk too much, the chip on his shoulder about those who think they are smarter than he is, the gaffes, that episode of plagiarism and the moments of confusion but I've always thought: Give me a leader who identifies with those who feel looked down upon. Give me a leader whose moral compass generally sends him in the right direction.

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But I've also come to fear and loathe Donald Trump. I cannot fathom what damage that increasingly deranged man might do to this country if given a second term. And the fact is that as the polls and the mood of the electorate stand today, Trump has a decent chance of beating Biden in November of next year and regaining power in 2025.

Voters know both men very well at this point, so when I hear Democrats comforting themselves that people will flock to Biden if the alternative on the ballot is Trump, I worry they are kidding themselves. Biden's approval ratings are stubbornly low. In a recent ABC poll, only 30 percent of voters approve of his handling of the economy and only 23 percent approve of his handling of immigration at the southern border. Roughly three-quarters of American voters say that Biden, at 80, is too old to seek a second term. There have been a string of polls showing that large majorities in his own party don't want him to run again. In one survey from 2022, an astounding 94 percent of Democrats under 30 said they wanted a different nominee.

I thought Biden's favorability ratings would climb as economic growth has remained relatively strong and as inflation has come down. But it just hasn't happened.

So I'm emotionally torn these days, the way so many are feeling strong affection and appreciation for Joe Biden, and yet feeling gripped simultaneously by a pounding fear that a Biden-led party will lose next year, and lead to a Trumpian Gtterdmmerung. Like many Americans, I've found myself having The Conversation over and over again, with friends, sources and people who work in Democratic politics: whether Biden is the best candidate to defeat Trump, his chances of winning, if there's some better course.

Some Democrats tell me in these talks that they hope their party leaders will somehow persuade Biden to retire and open the door for a fresher candidate. Others argue that Biden needs some stiff primary competition. Most of the filing deadlines for the early primaries are approaching Nevada and New Hampshire this month, Michigan and California and more in December. There's still time for other Democrats to jump in the race.

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But many party leaders act as if this is madness, speaking with a fervor that is loyal but also patronizing: Biden is vehement about running again, and there's zero chance he'll be talked out of it, so Democrats had better just deal with that fact. Plus a serious primary challenge would merely weaken the inevitable Biden candidacy, the way Ted Kennedy weakened Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Pat Buchanan hurt George H. W. Bush in 1992. We just have to pull this guy over the line.

I don't find this passive fatalism compelling. The party's elected officials are basically urging rank-and-file Democrats not to be anxious about a situation that is genuinely anxiety-inducing. Last month Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey told The Times, "This is only a matter of time until the broad party, and broadly speaking, Americans, converge with the opinions of folks like myself. " Really? Surely if there's a lesson we should have learned from the last decade, it's that we should all be listening harder to what the electorate is trying to say.

I've tried to set aside my affection for the man and look anew at the question of Biden and 2024: Should we really do this?

The thing that so many of us are stuck on is Biden's age, of course. On this subject I have some personal observations. I've been interviewing the man for a quarter-century, including during his presidency. The Republicans who portray him as a doddering old man based on highly selective YouTube clips are wrong. In my interviews with him, he's like a pitcher who used to throw 94 miles an hour who now throws 87. He is clearly still an effective pitcher.

People who work with him allow that he does tire more easily, but they say that he is very much the dynamic force driving this administration. In fact, I've noticed some improvements in his communication style as he's aged. He used to try to cram every fact in the known universe into every answer; now he's more disciplined. When he's describing some national problem, he is more crisp and focused than he used to be, clearer on what is the essential point here more confidence-inspiring, not less.

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What about four or five years from now, at the end of a second term? Will he still be competent enough to lead? Biden is fit, does not smoke or drink alcohol, exercises frequently and has no serious health conditions, according to the White House. A study in The Journal on Active Aging of Biden's and Trump's health records from before the 2020 elections found that both men could qualify as "super-agers" the demographic that maintains physical and mental functioning beyond age 80.

But Biden's age is obviously and understandably going to be a greater concern than it was in 2020. It seems especially to worry some White House staff members or whoever is trying to cocoon him so he doesn't make a ruinous tumble. But if the president I see in interviews and at speeches is out campaigning next year against an overweight man roughly his own age, then my guess is that public anxieties on this front will diminish.

To me, age isn't Biden's key weakness. Inflation is. I agree with what Michael Tomasky wrote in The New Republic: Biden's domestic legislative accomplishments are as impressive as any other president's in my adult life. Exactly as he should have, he has directed huge amounts of resources to the people and the places that have been left behind by the global economy. By one Treasury Department estimate, more than 80 percent of the investments sparked by the Inflation Reduction Act are going to counties with below-average college graduation rates and nearly 90 percent are being made in counties with below-average wages. That was the medicine a riven country needed.

But it is also true that Biden's team overlearned the lessons of the Obama years. If Barack Obama didn't stimulate the economy enough during the Great Recession, Biden stimulated it too much, contributing to inflation and the sticker shock people are feeling.

Anger about inflation is ripping across the world, and has no doubt helped lower the approval ratings of leaders left, right and center. Biden's 40 percent approval rating may look bad, but in Canada, Justin Trudeau's approval rating is 36; in Germany Olaf Scholz is at 29; in Britain Rishi Sunak is at 28; in France Emmanuel Macron is at 23; and in Japan Fumio Kishida is also at 23. This is a global phenomenon. As the journalist Josh Barro argued recently, "Inflation is the reason Biden could not deliver on his core promise to return the country to normal and the main reason his poll numbers are bad. ".

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Because of inflation, Americans now trust Trump to handle the economy more than Biden. As ABC News reported, voters are looking back and retroactively elevating their opinion of Trump's presidency. When he left office only 38 percent of Americans approved of his performance as president. Today, 48 percent do, his high-water mark.

Inflation also contributes to a corrosive national mood that you might call American Jaundice. Nearly three out of every four Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. Bitterness, cynicism and distrust pervade the body politic. People perceive reality through negative lenses, seeing everything as much worse than it is. At 3. 8 percent, America's unemployment rate is objectively low, but 57 percent of voters say that the unemployment rate is "not so good" or "poor. ".

The nation's bitter state of mind is a self-perpetuating negativity machine. Younger people feel dismissed; the older generations are hogging power. Faith in major institutions is nearing record lows. The country is hungry for some kind of change but is unclear about what that might look like. As the incumbent, Biden will be tasked with trying to tell a good news story of American revival, which is just a tough story to sell in this environment. And Biden is not out there selling it convincingly.

The bracing reality is that Trump's cynicism and fury match the national mood more than Biden's faithful optimism. It's one of the reasons Trump is now leading Biden by 1. 2 percentage points in the RealClearPolitics polling average. It's one of the reasons Trump is in a stronger polling position now than at any point in 2016 or 2020. It's one of the reasons even some Republicans are mystified by the way Democrats are standing pat behind their incumbent.

"They seem hell bent on nominating the one Democrat who would lose to Donald Trump," Karl Rove told me recently. "They've got a lot of talent on their side, let's not kid ourselves," he continued, pointing to younger Democrats like Gretchen Whitmer, Mitch Landrieu, Gavin Newsom and Cory Booker.

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But once you start to think carefully about whether Democrats could nominate one of those non-Biden alternatives, all sorts of other concerns rise into view. First, there is the Kamala Harris problem. If the door were open, the vice president would probably run even though her poll numbers are lower than Biden's. Her shambolic 2020 presidential campaign does not inspire confidence, and her record includes being a leading player on the administration's divisive immigration policies. People can make an all-star wish list of other Democratic nominees, but in the real world there is simply no easy way to push Harris aside.

Then there's the fact that there is no other viable candidate in the Democratic Party with a national base of support. The rising Democratic stars Rove referred to are all talented, but none have compellingly stood on the national stage. In the polling right now, possible candidates not named Biden or Harris are in the low single digits.

Plus, there are good reasons no major Democrat has so far stepped up to mount a challenge. Anyone who did throw a hat in the ring would face such vitriolic contempt from the party establishment, it would probably be career-ending. Such a candidate might also face withering criticism from rank-and-file Democrats. As a former Obama administration official, Dan Pfeiffer, has pointed out, Biden has higher favorability ratings among Democrats than Trump does among Republicans. Democrats may be anxious about the old guy running, but that doesn't mean they'the automatically warm to someone trying to take him down.

Finally, and most important, when you really start to imagine what it would look like if the Democrats didn't nominate Biden, one whopping issue becomes clear.

A lot of the dump-Biden conversations are based on a false premise: that the Democratic Party brand and agenda are somehow strong and popular enough that any number of younger candidates could win the White House in 2024, and that if Biden were just to retire, all sorts of obstacles and troubles would go with him.

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But Biden is not the sole or even primary problem here. To the extent that these things are separable, it's the Democratic Party as a whole that's ailing. The generic congressional ballot is a broad measure of the strength of the congressional party. Democrats are now behind. According to a Morning Consult poll, Americans rate the Democratic Party as a whole as the more ideologically extreme party by a nine-point margin.

When pollsters ask which party is best positioned to address your concerns, here too, Democrats are trailing. In a recent Gallup poll 53 percent of Americans say Republicans will do a better job of keeping America prosperous over the short term while only 39 percent thought that of the Democrats. Fifty-seven percent of Americans said that the Republicans would do a better job keeping America safe, while only 35 percent favor the Democrats. These are historically high Republican advantages.

Here are the hard, unpleasant facts: The Republicans have a likely nominee who is facing 91 charges. The Republicans in Congress are so controlled by a group of performative narcissists, the whole House has been reduced to chaos. And yet they are still leading the Democrats in these sorts of polling measures.

This is about something deeper than Joe Biden's age. More and more people are telling pollsters that the Republicans, not the Democrats, care about people like me.

When I think back to the glory days of the Democratic Party, the days of the New Deal and the Great Society, even to the days when Joe Biden was a young senator being mentored by the likes of Hubert Humphrey, the Democratic Party was at its core a working- and middle-class party. Over the last half-century, the Democrats have become increasingly the party of the well-educated metropolitan class.

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It is not news that the Democrats have been losing white working-class voters ever since the emergence of the Reagan Democrats. But today, the party is bleeding working-class voters of all varieties. As John be. Judis and Ruy Teixeira point out in their forthcoming book, "Where Have All the Democrats Gone?" Democrats have been losing ground among Hispanics for the last few years. In 2012, Barack Obama carried nonwhite voters without a college degree by a 67-point margin. In 2020, Biden carried this group with a 48-point margin. Today, the Democratic ticket leads among this group by a paltry 16 points.

But Democrats are losing something arguably more important than a reliable base of supporters. The party is in danger of letting go of an ethos, a heritage, a tradition. The working-class heart and soul the Democrats cultivated through the Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy years rooted Democratic progressivism in a set of values that emphasized hard work, neighborhood, faith, family and flag. Being connected to Americans' everyday experiences kept the party pinioned to the mainstream.

As the party became dominated by the more educated activist and media sectors, it lost touch with some of what can be called its psychological and emotional power sources. It grew prone to taking flights of fancy in policy and rhetoric, be it Medicare for All or "defund the police," going to places where middle-of-the-road voters would not follow. It became more vulnerable to the insular outlooks of its most privileged and educated members.

This is what happened in 2020. There were moments in that campaign when it looked as if Bernie Sanders was going to run away with the race, sending the party into uncharted ideological waters. Most of the other candidates sprinted leftward. In a June 2019 debate, nine of 10 Democratic presidential candidates raised their hands when asked if they supported decriminalizing border crossings. Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand were even further left than their colleagues. The year prior, both of them called for dismantling Immigration and Customs Enforcement. College-educated voters are less worried about illegal immigration than high school-educated voters and that influence showed.

Joe Biden was nominated in 2020 because he was the cure to this malady. He was the guy most plainly with roots in the working and middle class. He was the guy who didn't engage in the culture war and identity politics theatrics. He was the most moderate major candidate in the race. Democrats from James Clyburn on down swung to Biden because he offered the most plausible connection back to the Democrats' working-class soul and it worked. Biden gave the party what it needed to come back to life.

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And that is the fact I keep returning to. Biden is not what ails the party. As things stand, he is the Democrats' best shot at curing what ails the party.

There is no other potential nominee who is so credibly steeped in knowing what life is like for working- and middle-class people, just as there was no other potential nominee in 2020. After watching him for a quarter-century, I think he is genuinely most comfortable when he is hanging around the kinds of people he grew up with. He doesn't send out any off-putting faculty lounge vibes. On cultural matters he is most defined by what he doesn't do needlessly offend people with overly academic verbiage and virtue signaling. That is why I worry when he talks too stridently about people on the right, when he name-calls and denounces wide swaths of people as MAGA.

These cultural and spiritual roots give him not just a style but a governing agenda. He has used the presidency to direct resources to those who live in the parts of the country where wages are lower, where education levels are lower, where opportunities are skimpier. Biden's ethos harks back to the ethos of the New Deal Democratic Party, but it also harks forward to something to a form of center-left politics that is culturally moderate and economically aggressive. Aggressive in investing resources in the left-behind places, aggressive in using industrial policy to revive manufacturing, green tech and other industries, aggressive in using federal largess to bolster the care economy. His administration has put racial justice at the top of the agenda. It has moved the party beyond the technocratic centrism of the Clinton-Obama years.

It is a first glimpse, but only a first glimpse, of a future Democratic Party that could once again compete for working- and middle-class support and would once again rest on its historical values.

Something almost spiritual is at play here, not just about whether the Democrats can win in 2024, but who the Democrats are.

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As I've thought about Biden's chances in 2024, I find myself deeply conscious of all the disadvantages that he and the Democrats have as they try to retain power, and preparing for what that could bring. But I also find myself arriving foursquare at the conclusion that rejecting the president now would be, in the first place, a mistake. He offers the most plausible route toward winning the working- and middle-class groups the Democrats need, the most plausible route toward building a broad-based majority party.

But it would be worse than a mistake. It would be a renunciation of the living stream of people, ideas and values that flow at the living depths of the party, a stream that propelled its past glories and still points toward future ones.[/QUOTE]"[B]RIP Dirty Joe[/B]"?

"Articles like these are why I give the NYT my $$. ?

"Joe Biden 1942-2023 good riddance"?

LOL. Did you even read that article? Taking too many "meds" to comprehend what you read now, bro?

Uh. In that article you are so happy to have spent somebody's hard earned money to read, Brooks is making the case for why keeping Joe Biden as the nominee is the most winning strategy for the Dems and, ultimately, the country.

Seriously. Try re-reading it more slowly and carefully. And this time without taking whatever "meds" had been getting you through the night.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2858099] ... Do you honestly not know if you are a man or a woman? [/QUOTE]Yes, I know.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2858099]Well, my [b]Adams apple and dick[/b] are a dead giveaway. ... [/QUOTE]Really...so you're saying, that's what qualifies as a man?

If this is the case, I'm pretty sure there's another group of men, that also have an "Adams apple and dick". You know the group of men, I mean...the ones with the cool, "StoryBook Hour", book reading.

You know...the one ISG Admin, frowns us talking about. Yeah, that other group of men, with an "Adams apple and dick", that Repubs and the Christian right DON'T consider as men. Are they not still men?

[u]And What about?:[/u][LIST]Eunuchs, castrated through no fault of their own?[/LIST][LIST]Or Amputees, who are injured from an accident, through no fault of their own?[/LIST][LIST]Or Veterans, soldiers, patriots, whose dicks are blown off in combat or suffers an injury to their "Adams apple or dick" and it's, removed, amputated or lopped off?[/LIST][LIST]Or yourself for that matter (God forbid!), [b]you get "Bobbitted"[/b], on a crazy trip while in the Philippines and couldn't retrieve your dick? For example.[/LIST][LIST]Or People born without these appendages (or mutilated at birth), through no fault of their own?[/LIST]
And What if, ALL the these groups of people, with said missing appendages/limbs, through no fault of their own, [b]in their eyes and minds, still consider themselves to be men?[/b]

[u]So ?:[/u]
By your definition of "what a man is", simply having an "Adams apple and dick", do any of these groups of people (described above, "Bobbitted" et al.), still qualify as men?


[b]*Note:[/b] Would still love to hear, [i]"what a woman is?"[/i])

[URL]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/10/07/exclusive-blood-in-the-water-sen-tim-scott-says-bidens-weak-foreign-policy-inviting-aggression/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858545]Yes, I know.

Really...so you're saying, that's what qualifies as a man?

If this is the case, I'm pretty sure there's another group of men, that also have an "Adams apple and dick". You know the group of men, I mean...the ones with the cool, "StoryBook Hour", book reading.

You know...the one ISG Admin, frowns us talking about. Yeah, that other group of men, with an "Adams apple and dick", that Repubs and the Christian right DON'T consider as men. Are they not still men?
[b]*Note:[/b] Would still love to hear, [i]"what a woman is?"[/i])[/QUOTE]You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I said that if I (a man) had a surgeon cut my dick off, and carve a nasty gash in its place, it would not magically make me a woman, it would make me a MAN with a mutilated dick.

It's the woke side that is confused. And believes men can have a "female penis".

Women have an XX chromosomal make up, they have ovaries, produce eggs, etc.

Now I can already see where you will take this. Yes. If a woman cannot produce eggs, she is still a woman.

Also, if a human is born without arms or legs, they are still a human, even though an average human is described as having two arms and two legs. This case would simply be a deviation from a standard. This human with no arms of legs is not magically a snake, or something non-human because of a defect. Just like a man does not become a different gender if his penis is missing.

This is very basic stuff.

And I'm not surprised at all that you think that transsexual story book hour is "cool". You probably support the wide use of puberty blockers as well. In the coming years we will have 18 year olds with the bodies of 10 year olds, and certain types of men can fulfill their sick fantasies legally.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858366]Yeh, I'm sure you'd rather the money go to billionaires, as you wait for the crumbs from their pink-trickle-down economics table.[/QUOTE]If you wanted to go after billionaires, you would go after capital gains and carried interest, but that was downed by one of your own after she got paid off: [URL]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/sinema-received-nearly-1-million-from-wall-street-while-killing-tax-hike-on-investors[/URL].

And the richest neighborhoods are all voting Democrat now. Gee, I wonder why.

Maybe you can tell me how sky high interest rates and higher prices including on housing help the poor and middle class.

What was funny about Russiagate is you Democratic douches just could not believe Trump got so many votes from the middle class. No, he had to have a billionaire like Putin bankrolling him.

And then you got crooked Hiliary Clinton, and the Clintons are billionaires now strictly IMO from selling influence, talking about "reprogramming" those who do not side with her. Talk about a billionaire brat throwing a tantrum.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858366]Hey you've been pontificating this for some time now. Well as the saying goes, [i]"...even the sun shines up a dogs ass some days". [/i] [/QUOTE]You mean you were dumb enough to think you could print up trillions of dollars, pay people to not work, and NOT have a recession? LOL.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858366]So you may get yet your recession, but thank your lucky stars, the Repubs won't be in power, if happens.[/QUOTE]My recession? No, you Democratic douches thought the above would not cause one. Do you know anything about economics outside of Republicans bad, Dems good?

[QUOTE=Spidy;2858366]Well if that's the case Elvis, [u]you're own betting stats[/u] would tell you that, [b]YOU WOULD HAVE:[/b] made more money, betting a recession would occur (or the economy tanking precipitously), when I Repub Pres. was in office vs. when a Dem Pres. as been office.[/QUOTE]Well, with that statement, I guess you answered my question.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2858518]"Aw. And after Bill worked so hard to line up guests to present as much of a Dem / Biden-Bashing pro-Repub Campaign Rally as he could for his big return show last week, calculating it would be his highest rated one ever!

This accessment by Gen. Milley might serve to counter Maher's opening that show with a joke based one of his new favorite Repub talking point lies that "unlike Law and Order, Rule of Law Repubs, soft on crime Democrats have legalized shoplifting," closing with that Grand Finale about how old Biden will come off at the debates vs how youthful, robust and healthy Donald "Please, somebody help me waddle down this ramp" Covefe Trump is by comparison even after defeating Barack Obama in 2016 and brilliantly avoiding plunging us into "World War 2"!

So, you know, better for the Dems to choose another candidate that every Repub will harbor an irrational hated for anyway, right, Bill? LOL.

Gen. Milley addresses President Biden's age.

[URL]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-biden-general-mark-milley-60-minutes/[/URL]

I hear Maher is feverishly trying to book Gen. Michael Flynn on his show ASAP in order to, you know, provide a typically fair and balanced virulently pro Repub "Bothsider" elaboration on how much younger, robust and healthy Donald "inject me with everything you've got to save my life from the virus I blatantly lied to convince the world was already disappearing without a vaccine many months ago" Trump is than Joe "fine, alert, sound, does his homework, reads the papers, reads all the read-ahead material, very, very engaging in issues of very serious matters of life and death" Biden. ".

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/sicko-commits-disturbing-sex-assault-on-nyc-subway-train/[/URL]

A Brooklyn sicko stood above a sleeping 22-year-old female straphanger on an and train in Greenwood Heights and ejaculated on her face early Friday before fleeing.

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/03/man-arrested-for-breaking-into-manhattan-murder-victims-apartment-in-april-is-person-of-interest-in-her-shooting-death/[/URL]

[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/03/disturbing-video-shows-moment-beloved-activist-poet-is-randomly-stabbed-to-death-in-front-of-girlfriend-on-nyc-street/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/philadelphia-police-identify-suspect-journalist-192711626.html?fbclid=IwAR3Hgr2aZp4-fGjH6xZb6vEOCTHSU1ENb1A5C21dB2L0ZhuwYACr8EKvqao[/URL][/QUOTE]And I suppose you and Bill Maher think NYC would only "Catch and Release" the perpetrators of those crimes because "Dems legalized shoplifting"?

Now, you do realize that violent crimes even occur in Hooterville and Pixley, right there where Jethro', Daisy Mae and Aunt Bea live, right?

LOL. I saw your fellow Repub Csmpaigner Bill's latest Real Time show where he slammed a Muslim comedian for "making stuff up" in order to tell a joke meant to promote a particular political agenda.

You know, exactly what Bill himself does almost every show now with that "Dems have legalized shoplifting" lie he loves to tell. LOL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2858813]And I suppose you and Bill Maher think NYC would only "Catch and Release" the perpetrators of those crimes because "Dems legalized shoplifting"?

Now, you do realize that violent crimes even occur in Hooterville and Pixley, right there where Jethro', Daisy Mae and Aunt Bea live, right?

LOL. I saw your fellow Repub Csmpaigner Bill's latest Real Time show where he slammed a Muslim comedian for "making stuff up" in order to tell a joke meant to promote a particular political agenda.

You know, exactly what Bill himself does almost every show now with that "Dems have legalized shoplifting" lie he loves to tell. LOL.[/QUOTE]It's nice to see Democrats attacking Democrats. Bill Maher must be the Progressive Democrat's Ray Epps.

[URL]https://reason.com/video/2020/11/09/joe-bidens-11-trillion-plan-to-bankrupt-america/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858743]If you wanted to go after billionaires, you would go after capital gains and carried interest, but that was downed by one of your own after she got paid off: [URL]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/sinema-received-nearly-1-million-from-wall-street-while-killing-tax-hike-on-investors[/URL].[/QUOTE]I have some comments about your post Elvis. Some you'll agree with and some you'll disagree with. But we're on the same page.

Yes, you're spot on with your criticism of carried interest. Kyrsten Sinema however overall was a force for good. Without her and Joe Manchin, Joe Biden's $11 trillion plan to bankrupt America (see link above from Reason Magazine) might have been realized. Instead, Democrats only managed to pass five or six trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022.

I don't know how Sneaky Chuck Schumer got Kyrsten to take the blame for this one. He's been keeping the carried interest loophole alive for years with backdoor machinations. Maybe this is how:

[URL]https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/heres-why-chuck-schumer-will-never-close-the-carried-interest-loophole[/URL]

As to capital gains, while progressive think tanks would have you believe otherwise, mainstream economists believe the revenue maximizing capital gains tax rate is around 30%. The current maximum federal rate is 23.8%, and the state + federal rate in deep blue California is 37.1%. The only reason to raise the maximum capital gains rate to 43.4% (56.7% including the state income tax in California) as proposed by Joe Biden would be for political purposes, to demagogue and soak the rich. Everyone loses though as the federal government would collect less in revenues. When the capital gains tax rate is set too high, people just don't sell assets. Not only that, the economy doesn't operate as efficiently. To take an example from the last century, it's like encouraging people to keep their shares in the buggy whip manufacturer, instead of selling them, paying the capital gains tax, and reinvesting in Ford Motor Company. A similar principle applies to the federal tax on dividends, which Biden also wanted to raise to 43.4%. Thankfully Sinema and Manchin prevented this too.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858743]And the richest neighborhoods are all voting Democrat now. Gee, I wonder why.

Maybe you can tell me how sky high interest rates and higher prices including on housing help the poor and middle class.[/QUOTE]As to your first point, not necessarily. My city has the highest per capita income and per capita GDP in the USA. And it's deep red. It went for Trump by 57 percentage points in 2020.

It would be more correct to say neighborhoods with a propensity to suck off the government tit are voting Democratic. As are people who benefit from Democratic Party policies. And the inverse is true. The reason my city is deep red even though there are more Hispanics than whites is because many Democrats want to kill the main industry here as they mistakenly think that will prevent global warming. Anyway, look at Sam Bankman Fried and green energy entrepreneurs. They're wealthy, and firmly behind Democrats.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2858743]You mean you were dumb enough to think you could print up trillions of dollars, pay people to not work, and NOT have a recession? LOL.

My recession? No, you Democratic douches thought the above would not cause one. Do you know anything about economics outside of Republicans bad, Dems good?
.[/QUOTE]I see where you're going with this Elvis. Yes if Washington keeps printing trillions, and our federal debt held by the public increases a lot more from the previously unimaginable 100% of GDP level, we'll go the same way as southern Europe. In the short term, Biden and the Democrats juiced the economy by pumping $1. 9 trillion of unneeded stimulus into economy in the first quarter of 2021 through the American Rescue Plan, followed by an addition $3 trillion+ of unfunded spending spread over 10 years through other legislation. This actually reduced the probability of recession during the time that Biden was president and Democrats controlled the House and Senate. But at what cost? The bankrupting of America?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2858386]This accessment by Gen. Milley might serve to counter Maher's opening that show with a joke based one of his new favorite Repub talking point lies that "unlike Law and Order, Rule of Law Repubs, soft on crime Democrats have legalized shoplifting," closing with that Grand Finale about how old Biden will come off at the debates vs how youthful, robust and healthy Donald "Please, somebody help me waddle down this ramp"[b] Covefe Trump[/b] is by comparison even after defeating Barack Obama in 2016 and brilliantly avoiding plunging us into "World War 2"! ... [/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm sure you've heard the latest Bill Maher punchline, when it comes to Biden's age. Bill Maher:
[i] "Well you know, he's done fine for the 1st Term, but [b]he's gonna be RBG'd,[/b] if he trys to run again." [/i]

But what's missing is the punchline for the Repubs, as, they are eyeing a similar fate. As....

Meanwhile, on the Repub side, their front-runner at 77 years old (and ONLY 3-yrs behind Biden), is way ahead by some 30-40 points, of those other candidate hopefuls, as they get smaller in the rear-view and are all just hoping praying and wishing for the "Orange Menace", to also [b]get RBG'd[/b] or suddenly just drop dead, from [b]a Big Mac attack.[/b] (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2858422]... Being "better at handling the economy than the Democrats", as Mainstream Media works so hard to plant in the heads of the electorate by any means possible, the Repub Party's success rate in Doing Nothing, Knowing Nothing, wiping out millions upon millions of jobs and thousand upon thousands of businesses, skyrocketing the unemployment rate and deficit spending with nothing to show for it and shutting down the government to convince all other budding Captialist democracies around the world to immediately drop such a dumb idea is second to none.

In fact, I think it is the only political entity in any democracy on the planet that achieves that goal over and over and over again yet still somehow manages to exist. Kudos to pro-Repub "Bothsiders" like those found in Mainstream Media, here and Bill Maher for that I suppose. [/QUOTE] And while they're tearing down that fallacy, perhaps we can also get rid of the other bastardize impediment towards a real and proper democracy[b]...The electoral College.[/b]

Yes, that's right...The electoral College. Every other democracy in the world that had an electoral college, have tossed it out, abolished it, or have put an end to this antiquated, out-dated pile of crap, and tossed it in the anti-democratic dustbin of history.

Why haven't the good ol' United States America, done the same? I really wonder why...that right Elvis, you guess it, [b]bad Republicans![/b] (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2858743]My recession? No, you Democratic douches thought the above would not cause one. [/QUOTE] And it hasn't. But I know your hoping, praying and betting for one.

[QUOTE=Elvis 2008;2858743]Do you know anything about economics outside of Republicans bad, Dems good? [/QUOTE]

How does that economist joke go? Something like, [i]"Two (2) economists are arguing about whether, but neither of them looks out the window." [/i] Economists get it wrong all the time and have been getting it wrong for years.

But hey...we have good ol' Elvis 2008, ISG mongerer, to tell us everything we need to know about the economy. Your tell it to your Repub, chums, who might be buy it. I'm NOT!

[i][b]WARNING:[/b] Before reading the latest round of good news from the US economy, some readers may want to [u]take there stroke meds, before reading,[/u] in case of exploding heads. This post is not responsible for killing Republicans, who can't handle a robust and resilient Biden economy.!!![/i]

[QUOTE=CNN.com][b]October 6th, 2023: Jobs report shock: American economy added a stunning 336,000 job in September[/b]

"US stocks ended Friday on a high as the latest jobs report showed the [b]US economy added 336,000 positions in September[/b], significantly more than Wall Street economists expected. The unemployment rate remained at 3.8%."

"Economists had predicted the US added just 170,000 jobs last month and thought the unemployment rate would inch back down to 3.7%. "

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/markets-jobs-report-september/index.html[/URL][/QUOTE]


Elvis, don't over think it! Bidenomics (and the economy) are doing just fine, [b]perhaps try sticking your head out the window. [/b](...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859057][URL]https://reason.com/video/2020/11/09/joe-bidens-11-trillion-plan-to-bankrupt-america/[/URL]

I have some comments about your post Elvis. Some you'll agree with and some you'll disagree with. But we're on the same page.

Yes, you're spot on with your criticism of carried interest. Kyrsten Sinema however overall was a force for good. Without her and Joe Manchin, Joe Biden's $11 trillion plan to bankrupt America (see link above from Reason Magazine) might have been realized. Instead, Democrats only managed to pass five or six trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022.

I don't know how Sneaky Chuck Schumer got Kyrsten to take the blame for this one. He's been keeping the carried interest loophole alive for years with backdoor machinations. Maybe this is how:

[URL]https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/heres-why-chuck-schumer-will-never-close-the-carried-interest-loophole[/URL]

As to capital gains, while progressive think tanks would have you believe otherwise, mainstream economists believe the revenue maximizing capital gains tax rate is around 30%. The current maximum federal rate is 23.8%, and the state + federal rate in deep blue California is 37.1%. The only reason to raise the maximum capital gains rate to 43.4% (56.7% including the state income tax in California) as proposed by Joe Biden would be for political purposes, to demagogue and soak the rich. Everyone loses though as the federal government would collect less in revenues. When the capital gains tax rate is set too high, people just don't sell assets. Not only that, the economy doesn't operate as efficiently. To take an example from the last century, it's like encouraging people to keep their shares in the buggy whip manufacturer, instead of selling them, paying the capital gains tax, and reinvesting in Ford Motor Company. A similar principle applies to the federal tax on dividends, which Biden also wanted to raise to 43.4%. Thankfully Sinema and Manchin prevented this too.

As to your first point, not necessarily. My city has the highest per capita income and per capita GDP in the USA. And it's deep red. It went for Trump by 57 percentage points in 2020.

It would be more correct to say neighborhoods with a propensity to suck off the government tit are voting Democratic. As are people who benefit from Democratic Party policies. And the inverse is true. The reason my city is deep red even though there are more Hispanics than whites is because many Democrats want to kill the main industry here as they mistakenly think that will prevent global warming. Anyway, look at Sam Bankman Fried and green energy entrepreneurs. They're wealthy, and firmly behind Democrats.

I see where you're going with this Elvis. Yes if Washington keeps printing trillions, and our federal debt held by the public increases a lot more from the previously unimaginable 100% of GDP level, we'll go the same way as southern Europe. In the short term, Biden and the Democrats juiced the economy by pumping $1. 9 trillion of unneeded stimulus into economy in the first quarter of 2021 through the American Rescue Plan, followed by an addition $3 trillion+ of unfunded spending spread over 10 years through other legislation. This actually reduced the probability of recession during the time that Biden was president and Democrats controlled the House and Senate. But at what cost? The bankrupting of America?[/QUOTE]Remember how Woodrow Wilson and FDR "bankrupted" America to win World War I and World War II? I mean, despite the fact that the brilliant Repub economic steward behind that brilliant Repub $1. 5 Trillion tab every ten years into infinity Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, Donald Trump, brilliantly dodged our involvement in "World War II", maybe just 80 years too late.

But for non World War and non Trump's Pandemic eras, nobody did a better job of "bankrupting" America than 3rd Place Ronald Reagan, almost increasing the USA debt by as much as the 4th, 5th and 6th Place presidents combined!

In fact, add Repub Reagan's non World War, non Trump's Pandemic VP's increase in the debt at 6th Place and it is even more amazing what incoming Dem President Clinton and his 1993 and 1994 Dem Congress accomplished with a "bankrupt" America. And that is on top of how they accomplished it despite Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing, Knowing Nothing Repubs attempting everything today's Do Nothing, Know Nothing USA Economy-attacking Pink Tinkle Repubs would have attempted then to destroy the USA economy.

[B]U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage.[/B]

[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225[/URL]

Anybody remember Ronnie Ray Gun's & Dubbya "Shrub" Bush's unfounded trickle down (trickle is the truth) "tax cuts" and tax giveaways for foreign earnings that gets repatriated? And , oh yes, Fat Nixon the future jail bird gave away the store as well, and forgot to Bill Mexico for the wall. What wall, you might ask?

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2858735]You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I said that if I (a man) had a surgeon cut my dick off, and carve a nasty gash in its place, it would not magically make me a woman, it would make me a MAN with a mutilated dick.

It's the woke side that is confused. And believes men can have a "female penis".

Women have an XX chromosomal make up, they have ovaries, produce eggs, etc.

Now I can already see where you will take this. Yes. If a woman cannot produce eggs, she is still a woman.

Also, if a human is born without arms or legs, they are still a human, even though an average human is described as having two arms and two legs. This case would simply be a deviation from a standard. This human with no arms of legs is not magically a snake, or something non-human because of a defect. Just like a man does not become a different gender if his penis is missing.

This is very basic stuff.

And I'm not surprised at all that you think that transsexual story book hour is "cool". You probably support the wide use of puberty blockers as well. In the coming years we will have 18 year olds with the bodies of 10 year olds, and certain types of men can fulfill their sick fantasies legally. [/QUOTE]

Wasn't really expecting, the sterile clinical (XX and XY chromosomal) definition as a response, since that's a given. But Okay...fair enough response/rebuttal w/r to answering the question(s).

Somehow though, I was expecting more then just a sterile clinical definition, since I also consider, that there is [b]a definite societal[/b] (or social)[b] aspect[/b] to the question(s), regarding "what is a woman?" or "what is a man?". One that does bring to the table, a more nuanced or more complex definition of "what is a woman/man?"

Yeah, I could be over thinking it, but considering that we do now live in a more complex society and we're no longer living in the dark ages, [i]"a deeper dive"[/i] into said questions, should be warranted.

So I'm okay, with just a simple clinical definition, albeit a bit limited in scope/definition, to what I consider a more complex question, in an ever growing complex society. Why else would many of us keep calling into question, one another's identity? And thusly, perpetrate and weaponize [b]"Identity Politics"?[/b]

For Example:
[LIST]Why are you so {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
Why aren't you more like {...fill-in-the blank}? Or

Why do you (assuming they actual do) [b]hate your own race/people[/b] (white, black, yellow, red, purple..etc)? [b]As if [/b]there's ONE STANDARD WAY to live, think, believe, work, play and thrive in life given your cultural heritage as a member of a certain race, sex, culture, ethnic group, economic group, social group...etc.

Do you NOT KNOW if your a man or women? Or
Do you NOT KNOW if your a {...fill-in-the blank}?[/LIST]Is it all just genuine curiosity or [b]hateful rhetoric[/b], meant to embarrass, insult and humiliate?

[u]StoryBook Hour:[/u]
With regards to kids learning, reading and attending a very cool "StoryBook Hour" vs. [b]attending a "Nazi" book-banning/booking-burning bonfire[/b], I'll take "StoryBook Hour", 24/7/365, each and every time.

But as you've stated, [b]clinically they are still men[/b], despite what Repubs and Christian right want you believe or think...RIGHT!

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859049]It's nice to see Democrats attacking Democrats. Bill Maher must be the Progressive Democrat's Ray Epps.[/QUOTE]

Difference is, Democrats aren't about to produce, enact or carry-out the latest [b]real-life[/b] action version and go all [b]"Kill Bill Vol #3"[/b], on his comedic ass (...kkkk!). Or AR-15, bomb, machete, knife or flag-pole him and/or lay waste to his show/business. Or burn his books for that matter.

But speaking of laying waste to Ray Epp types...take a look at your MAGA Repub's very own [i]"Ray Epps, the clown edition"[/i], namely "MyPillow Guy" aka. Mike Lindell. It appears the Mr. Lindell is now broke and/or bankrupted, according to his lawyers, to whom he owes millions of dollars to.

[b]MyPillow's Mike Lindell is broke, can't pay millions in legal bills [/b]
[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/mypillows-mike-lindell-is-broke-cant-pay-millions-in-legal-bills-lawyers/[/URL]

Yet another prime example of QAnon/MAGA/Repub gullible sucker cult brigade, that have hitch their wagon to the Orange Menace, and have been taken to the cleaners and/or left for dead.

Times like these, I'm reminded of Never Trumper ex-GOP Strategist, Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump Touches Dies" [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yafBxWUQNY[/URL]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859389]Difference is, Democrats aren't about to produce, enact or carry-out the latest [b]real-life[/b] action version and go all [b]"Kill Bill Vol #3"[/b], on his comedic ass (...kkkk!). Or AR-15, bomb, machete, knife or flag-pole him and/or lay waste to his show/business. Or burn his books for that matter.

But speaking of laying waste to Ray Epp types...take a look at your MAGA Repub's very own [i]"Ray Epps, the clown edition"[/i], namely "MyPillow Guy" aka. Mike Lindell. It appears the Mr. Lindell is now broke and/or bankrupted, according to his lawyers, to whom he owes millions of dollars to.

[b]MyPillow's Mike Lindell is broke, can't pay millions in legal bills [/b]
[URL]https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/mypillows-mike-lindell-is-broke-cant-pay-millions-in-legal-bills-lawyers/[/URL]

Yet another prime example of QAnon/MAGA/Repub gullible sucker cult brigade, that have hitch their wagon to the Orange Menace, and have been taken to the cleaners and/or left for dead.

Times like these, I'm reminded of Never Trumper ex-GOP Strategist, Rick Wilson's book, "Everything Trump Touches Dies" [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yafBxWUQNY[/URL][/QUOTE]I believe Epps is the biggest reason Fox fired Tucker Carlson. They saw a lawsuit coming. And they were right. I'm surprised he's not suing Carlson too. And I agree, Mike Lindell's not the brightest bulb on the planet.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859105]Remember how Woodrow Wilson and FDR "bankrupted" America to win World War I and World War II? I mean, despite the fact that the brilliant Repub economic steward behind that brilliant Repub $1. 5 Trillion tab every ten years into infinity Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, Donald Trump, brilliantly dodged our involvement in "World War II", maybe just 80 years too late.

But for non World War and non Trump's Pandemic eras, nobody did a better job of "bankrupting" America than 3rd Place Ronald Reagan, almost increasing the USA debt by as much as the 4th, 5th and 6th Place presidents combined!

In fact, add Repub Reagan's non World War, non Trump's Pandemic VP's increase in the debt at 6th Place and it is even more amazing what incoming Dem President Clinton and his 1993 and 1994 Dem Congress accomplished with a "bankrupt" America. And that is on top of how they accomplished it despite Nude Grinbitch and his fellow Do Nothing, Knowing Nothing Repubs attempting everything today's Do Nothing, Know Nothing USA Economy-attacking Pink Tinkle Repubs would have attempted then to destroy the USA economy.

[B]U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage.[/B]

[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225[/URL][/QUOTE]Woodrow Wilson and FDR. You're talking ancient history. But maybe at this point in history you're spot on!

Based on what went down in 2021 and 2022, Democratic Party politicians have no fear of $2 trillion deficits, a $25.5 trillion net national debt, or the $1. 3 trillion per year we'll be spending just on interest expense if rates normalize around 5% per annum. And perhaps it makes sense for them. They figure they can spend like drunken sailors to buy voters and special interests. And then hopefully Americans won't have to pay the piper for their profligate spending until they're no longer in office.

Admittedly a lot of Republicans think similarly, but the Democrats are worse. To their credit, back in May, McCarthy and House Republicans actually managed to claw back $1.5 trillion of the $5 trillion+ in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats in 2021 and 2022. That's according to Congressional Budget Office estimates:
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/us/politics/debt-ceiling-deal-savings-spending.html[/url]

Anyway, like most economists I've been inclined to blame recessions on monetary policy, the business cycle, oil price shocks, a pandemic and the like. And believed GDP growth is a function of improvements in productivity, increased investment, growth in the labor force, changes in technology and the like. And thought tying them back solely to the party of the president was somewhat simpleminded. But yes, Joe Biden might have boosted GDP and avoided a recession! By spending like a drunken sailor! And then if a Republican wins in 2024 he'll be blamed for the recession! You Democrats are a crafty bunch!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859397]Woodrow Wilson and FDR. You're talking ancient history. But maybe at this point in history you're spot on!

Based on what went down in 2021 and 2022, Democratic Party politicians have no fear of $2 trillion deficits, a $25.5 trillion net national debt, or the $1. 3 trillion per year we'll be spending just on interest expense if rates normalize around 5% per annum. And perhaps it makes sense for them. They figure they can spend like drunken sailors to buy voters and special interests. And then hopefully Americans won't have to pay the piper for their profligate spending until they're no longer in office.

Admittedly a lot of Republicans think similarly, but the Democrats are worse. To their credit, back in May, McCarthy and House Republicans actually managed to claw back $1.5 trillion of the $5 trillion+ in unfunded spending legislated by Democrats in 2021 and 2022. That's according to Congressional Budget Office estimates:
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/us/politics/debt-ceiling-deal-savings-spending.html[/url]

Anyway, like most economists I've been inclined to blame recessions on monetary policy, the business cycle, oil price shocks, a pandemic and the like. And believed GDP growth is a function of improvements in productivity, increased investment, growth in the labor force, changes in technology and the like. And thought tying them back solely to the party of the president was somewhat simpleminded. But yes, Joe Biden might have boosted GDP and avoided a recession! By spending like a drunken sailor! And then if a Republican wins in 2024 he'll be blamed for the recession! You Democrats are a crafty bunch![/QUOTE]I offer the same advice to you that I offered to Elvis in a previous post; if you are annoyed by the spending Democrats have to put into the system to pull us out of those Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions, Massive Repub Jobs Destruction and Mysterious, Mystical Great Repub "Once in a Hundred Years" Repeatedly Wild Coincidence Repub Disasters along with the inevitable and unavoidable Recovery Inflation followup, simply vote straight Dem down every ballot in every election for which you are eligible to vote and pass that advice on to everyone you know.

Then, if everyone follows that advice, neither you nor Elvis nor the rest of the country will suffer those "wildly coincidental" Repub economic policy, legislation and stewardship results that Dems are typically handed and left holding the bag to recover America from the only ways it has ever recovered from them for the past century or so.

Voila! All the problems he, you and other wingers constantly gripe, whine and complain about would be solved!

Now, I know this won't produce a perfect 100% Dem representation in the House and a perfect 100% Dem representation in the Senate. Human nature being what it is, some voters are bound to falter in their patriotic duty and vote for a numbskull Repub here and there for some numbskull reason; he'd like to have a beer with him, his Dem opponent said something vaguely stupid about the home football team or any one of the classic excuses about age, race, gender, whatever.

But the realistic goal is to merely reduce Repub representation in those houses of Congress down to a relatively harmless true minority, enough to hear their constant irrelevant griping, whining and complaining but not enough to cast a decisive vote on anything, ever.

However, the POTUS position must be absolute in resulting in placing a Dem in the White House every time if we are to avoid all those historically persistent Great Repub Disastrous Results. The President is the single most important player in producing those results. No, not the only player and not a miracle worker who can, say, prevent a gang of numbskull Repubs in Congress from shutting down the government or repeatedly threatening to or override a logical presidential veto of some numbskull Repub scheme to destroy the economy and wipe out millions upon millions of jobs despite the Dem Captain's stewardship. Just historically the single most important player.

But the 100% Dem POTUS goal can still happen even if the occasional numbskull Repub votes for a numbskull Repub candidate for whatever numbskull excuse they conjure up. So I'll grant you some leeway there.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859407]

I offer the same advice to you that I offered to Elvis in a previous post; if you are annoyed by the spending Democrats have to put into the system to pull us out of those Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions, Massive Repub Jobs Destruction and Mysterious, Mystical Great Repub "Once in a Hundred Years" Repeatedly Wild Coincidence Repub Disasters along with the inevitable and unavoidable Recovery Inflation followup, simply vote straight Dem down every ballot in every election for which you are eligible to vote and pass that advice on to everyone you know.....

However, the POTUS position must be absolute in resulting in placing a Dem in the White House every time if we are to avoid all those historically persistent Great Repub Disastrous Results. The President is the single most important player in producing those results. No, not the only player and not a miracle worker who can, say, prevent a gang of numbskull Repubs in Congress from shutting down the government or repeatedly threatening to or override a logical presidential veto of some numbskull Repub scheme to destroy the economy and wipe out millions upon millions of jobs despite the Dem Captain's stewardship. Just historically the single most important player.[/QUOTE]You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

The federal debt held by the public is headed towards dangerous levels, considering the government has to pay around 5% per annum to borrow now, instead of 1% or 2% before. Interest payments on the federal debt will consume around 5% of GDP at current interest rates!

Yes, Republicans were complicit. George W. Bush's war in Iraq and the Republicans failure to hold back spending when they controlled the government in 2017 and 2018 illustrate that. But Biden and Democrats took reckless spending to a whole new level, legislating over $5 trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022, after we'd already recovered from the COVID induced recession. Not the Trump induced recession, as you argue.

And yes, GDP growth during the Biden Administration was higher than it would have been without the profligate spending. But like for our friends who load up on debt to support an extravagant lifestyle, the ending won't be pretty. It may take a while, and you may be dead by then, but a reckoning is coming.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859535]You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

The federal debt held by the public is headed towards dangerous levels, considering the government has to pay around 5% per annum to borrow now, instead of 1% or 2% before. Interest payments on the federal debt will consume around 5% of GDP at current interest rates!

Yes, Republicans were complicit. George W. Bush's war in Iraq and the Republicans failure to hold back spending when they controlled the government in 2017 and 2018 illustrate that. But Biden and Democrats took reckless spending to a whole new level, legislating over $5 trillion in unfunded spending in 2021 and 2022, after we'd already recovered from the COVID induced recession. Not the Trump induced recession, as you argue.

And yes, GDP growth during the Biden Administration was higher than it would have been without the profligate spending. But like for our friends who load up on debt to support an extravagant lifestyle, the ending won't be pretty. It may take a while, and you may be dead by then, but a reckoning is coming.[/QUOTE]Oh I see. Well, the next time an incoming Repub is handed a historic, unprecedented economic disaster from an outgoing Dem that only a wannabe Repub Hoover numbskull would sit back and rely on to resolve itself in a straight line, I am sure he will show all of us how to provide the just right, not too hot and not too cold temperature of porridge to keep the Great Recovery no Repub has ever produced from the Great Economic Disaster no Dem has ever produced going just right for the next few years.

But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for even 1 factor in that impossible scenario to ever come about.

Maybe you and Larry can write a sweet little Fairy Tale about such a thing and close it with that "And they all lived happily ever after" ending you imagine would ever have been the case this time.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859585 ][b]LOL. So it's the Goldilocks Fairy Tale now. [/b]

Oh I see. Well, the next time an incoming Repub is handed a historic, unprecedented economic disaster from an outgoing Dem that only a wannabe Repub Hoover numbskull would sit back and rely on to resolve itself in a straight line, I am sure he will show all of us how to provide the just right, not too hot and not too cold temperature of porridge to keep the Great Recovery no Repub has ever produced from the Great Economic Disaster no Dem has ever produced going just right for the next few years.

But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for even 1 factor in that impossible scenario to ever come about.

Maybe you and Larry can write a sweet little Fairy Tale about such a thing and close it with that "And they all lived happily ever after" ending you imagine would ever have been the case this time. [/QUOTE] Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614]Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE]They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859535]You're a true believer Tooms. Nobody is arguing that government shouldn't provide stimulus during recessions. The problem was the quantity and the timing. By the time Democrats sent out free Biden money in March, 2021, we were already out of recession and GDP was about back to pre-COVID levels. That's also when Democrats passed the $1. 9 trillion American Rescue Plan. It was 9% of GDP! Larry Summers, prominent Democratic Party economist, said the stimulus was three times the output shortfall, presumably meaning three times the amount by which GDP was short of what it would have been without COVID. Jason Furman, another prominent Democratic Party economist, more or less agreed with him.

[/QUOTE]It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.

[QUOTE=GDreams;2859672]It was to balance out the snouts in the trough that Trump gave to all his mates with his stimulus. Biden just balanced it out giving money to the less wealthy. No it wasn't needed just as the Trump stimulus was 90% wasted it was to support his base.[/QUOTE]

You're right that a lot of the Trump/Pelosi stimulus spending in 2020 went to people who didn't need it. Many businesses took out Paycheck Protection Program Loans and didn't pay them back, even though they could have. Also the limits for some of the COVID payments were set too high. A couple could make $150,000 and still get a check, although it was Pelosi and Democrats arguing for higher limits, not the Republicans. The stimulus checks should have been need-based IMHO, not sent to people who were still employed or businesses that were still in good shape.

And yes Trump and Pelosi overdid it. They would have mailed out $1900 checks to most Americans in December of 2020 if McConnell and Senate Republicans hadn't held them back. That was at a time when household savings were already running over 100% of the pre-COVID level.

Biden and other Democratic politicians however "remedied" the restraint of the Senate Republicans with their American Rescue Plan (ARP) and subsequent legislation, which created the Mother of All Snouts. Much of the new spending after the ARP went to Biden's mates, like the green energy companies, chip manufacturers, and politicians who had plenty of delicious Biden pork to hand out through infrastructure spending. Infrastructure spending directed by Washington D.C., not the communities and states who are best placed to do that.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614]
[b]The Trillion dollar coin?[/b]

Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE]Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859788]Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's Paul Krugman's idea. His brilliant plan, adopted by some Congressional Democrats, was to to use the trillion dollar coin as a way to avoid negotiating with Republicans over an increase in the debt-ceiling limit. Rashida Tlaib, Democratic Congresswoman, resuscitated the idea in 2020 as a way to pay $2,000 a month to every man, woman and child resident in America during COVID, and $1,000 a month thereafter.

This sounds a lot like Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), a favorite of progressives that's worked so well in places like Venezuela and Zimbabwe, where government just prints new money to fund spending, while ignoring the effect on deficits and the national debt. Apparently the idea appeals to you and Tooms as well, as you have no fear of deficits and debt. Or believe Joe Biden's crock that we can pay for everything he wants, and only have to raise taxes on households making more than $400,000 per year.[/QUOTE]The first politics-related proposal of the idea came from one of your beloved Third Party candidates, Bo Gritz, back in 1992.

And, as one might expect, Gritz' Populist Party agenda sure sounds a whole lot more like a Repub or a self-delusional pro-Repub "Bothdider" than anything remotely like The Democratic Party:

[B]Bo Gritz[/B]

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL]

[QUOTE]In the 1992 election, after failing to secure the U.S. Taxpayers' Party's nomination, Gritz ran for President of the United States, again under the Populist Party banner. His campaign slogan was "God, Guns and Gritz", and he published a political manifesto titled "The Bill of Gritz" (a play on his last name rhyming with "rights"). He advocated for staunch opposition to what he termed "global government" and the "New World Order", called for an end to all foreign aid, and proposed the abolition of the federal income tax and the Federal Reserve System. During the campaign, Gritz openly declared the United States to be a "Christian Nation", asserting that the country's legal statutes "should reflect unashamed acceptance of Almighty God and His Laws."
.....
[B]As part of his campaign, Gritz proposed an idea to pay off the National debt by minting a coin at the Treasury and sending it to the Federal Reserve, a concept that predates the 2012 trillion-dollar coin idea.[/b] Among other proposals, the "Bill of Gritz" called for the complete closure of the border with Mexico, and the dissolution of the Federal Reserve.[/QUOTE]The only connection to the idea with Paul Krugman that I have yet found was when he was asked if such an idea was legal.

Obviously, his being asked about it would strongly suggest he did not come up with the idea himself. Along with other economists, he responded that it would indeed be legal to do such a thing. Later, he wrote an opinion piece proposing that having such a coin on hand might not be a bad idea in order to fend off the even worse idea by Repubs to continually drive up the debt with nothing positive to show for it then threaten to Dine and Dash on their bill like the Deadbeats they are and allow the USA Government to default on their debt.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859647]They are all Repub Fairy Tales. Their entire Supply-Side / Trickle-Down, Little or No Attention to Regulations = Superior Economic Success crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale. The lazy MSM spin that "Carter ruined the economy and Reagan saved it" crap is a total Repub Fairy Tale.

We know what happens when the classic Repub Do Nothingness or Repub Do The Exact Wrong Thing agenda is followed.

We got the Great Repub Crash and Depression in the late 1920's / early 1930's, Eisenhower's 3, count 'them, 3 recessions in just eight years, Nixon / Ford's practically no growth and jobs creation at all, Reagan's Great Repub Recession and whopping ten consecutive months of 10%+ Unemployment Rates, GHW Bush's horrific jobs creation record. GW Bush's Great Repub Recession and even more horrific jobs creation record, Trump's historic mass murders and Global Supply-Chain destruction disaster thanks to his criminal negligence, ignoring all expert warnings and year long lies to convert a likely manageable regional endemic into the Trump's Pandemic it became to produce negative jobs creation.

Thar was after 4 miserable Trump Stewardshop years and even after his coasting on the terrific Obama-Biden economic trajectories handed to him in his first year came to an end when he passed that $1. 5 Trillion net cost every 10 years into infinity legislation that was already producing fewer jobs with it than without it.

So what was Larry Summers' brilliant and admittedly often dead wrong ideas for what Biden and the Dems were supposed to do about still another historic, unprecedented Repub Economic Disaster handed to a Dem to fix until, oh, May, June or July 2021 when we would get the final GDP numbers for "March" of that one year?

Repub-style Know Nothing Do Nothing or Do The Wrong Thing?

Go fishing, play golf, ride ponies, clear brush down at the ranch?

And how would pro-Repub MSM have reacted to that after doing whatever they could to blame Biden and the Dems for the Repub Economic Disaster they inherited, as usual?

What frame of mind would that have put into business and jobs creation domestically and around the world?

Worse, let's say Summers' and his fellow pro Repub Bothsiders and outright Wingers got their Fairy Tale wish and whatever Biden and the Dems put into the system for this particular historic and unprecedented Great Repub Policy and Stewardship Disaster turned out to be exactly right to the dollar.

For its one moment in time, that is.

Then what happens if there is a resurgence of a new and widely spread variation of Trump's Pandemic virus after that "And they all lived happily ever after" Repub Fairy Tale ending?

Guess what, that happened. No one knew how bad it would be or if it would be even worse that the first Trump's Pandemic virus.

Oh and how about if, say, some Loon like Putin somehow mysteriously got privy to accurate, in writing USA Intel from, say, some Repub former potus Loon in 2021 and decided the following year was the right time for an exceedingly stupid invasion of Ukraine, thereby produce the crippling of an oil Supply-Chain for the entire Globe to enjoy?

And as long as we're on that topic, how about if the powers that be somehow mysteriously also got privy to some of that stolen USA Intel and decided the time was right to launch a terrorist attack on Israel and thereby add another crippling effect to the world's oil Supply-Chain business reliance.

Just sayin'.

Biden and the Dems had one 2 year window of opportunity to do whatever might be necessary to pull us and much of the world out of that historic and unprecedented Great Repub Economic Disaster.

Given the pattern for a new POTUS' Party's prospects in its first midterm election there would be no going back to the well after November 2022 if, perchance, that Fairy Tale "just right" porridge for its moment in time back in early 2021 or, God forbid, "too cold" too little porridge failed to meet even that moment.

LOL. Even though that midterm only saw a Pink Tinkle by hook and by crook majority in the House, does anyone of sane mind think for one minute those handful of Repub loons would help America by adding a tad more to the post-Repub Disaster stimulus after those unpredictable.

Events came about rather than do everything in their power to Crash the USA economy all over again?

Now, we're really telling impossible Fairy Tales if you believe such a thing.

God bless Biden and the Dems for being smart enough, brave enough and patriotic enough to put MORE into the system to deal. With the latest historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disaster than was merely necessary to put a bandaid on it in mid 2021, willing to shoulder all the heavy lifting and assume all the political risk to do as much as possible on the obvious awareness that our perpetual Repub Party problems had not been solved and had not gone away on January 20,2021 never to return.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thoughts there Tooms. I'll summarize for those who don't have time to read the whole piece.

Trump is a mass murderer.

Trump converted a manageable regional epidemic into a worldwide pandemic.

The main stream media is pro Republican

Larry Summers is pro Republican and enjoys the company of right wingers

Republicans like to ride ponies and clear brush

The correct name for SARS-CoV-2 is not the COVID-19 virus or the China Virus. It's the Trump Virus.

Putin possibly got hold of accurate, written U.S. intelligence from Trump that motivated him to invade Ukraine. Thus the run up of the price of oil in 2022 was Trump's fault.

Hamas possibly got hold of stolen USA intelligence leaked by Trump that motivated it to invade Israel. That will result in a crippling effect on the world's oil supply chain.

The 2020 recession should be labeled as the Great Republican Economic Disaster, even though inflation adjusted GDP ended 2020 only 1.1% below where it started, despite the worst pandemic since 1918. And even though all spending in 2020 had to pass muster with Nancy Pelosi and Democrats.

The TCJA passed by Republicans costs 1.5 trillion every 10 years into infinity. (The provisions actually mostly expire at the end of 2025, although the corporate tax cut stays around. Even Biden doesn't want to take the corporate rate back to where it was before the TCJA. The TCJA "costs" nothing. Rather it reduces the amount government takes out of the pockets of taxpayers. Finally I have to give you credit for using the $1.5 trillion Congressional Budget Office estimate, instead of the $2.5 trillion you were quoting earlier.)

Economic performance is somehow related to the temperature of porridge

yada yada

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859378]Wasn't really expecting, the sterile clinical (XX and XY chromosomal) definition as a response, since that's a given. But Okay...fair enough response/rebuttal w/r to answering the question(s).

Somehow though, I was expecting more then just a sterile clinical definition, since I also consider, that there is [b]a definite societal[/b] (or social)[b] aspect[/b] to the question(s), regarding "what is a woman?" or "what is a man?". One that does bring to the table, a more nuanced or more complex definition of "what is a woman/man?"

Yeah, I could be over thinking it, but considering that we do now live in a more complex society and we're no longer living in the dark ages, [i]"a deeper dive"[/i] into said questions, should be warranted.

So I'm okay, with just a simple clinical definition, albeit a bit limited in scope/definition, to what I consider a more complex question, in an ever growing complex society. Why else would many of us keep calling into question, one another's identity? And thusly, perpetrate and weaponize [b]"Identity Politics"?[/b]

For Example:
[LIST]Why are you so {...fill-in-the blank}? Or
Why aren't you more like {...fill-in-the blank}? Or

Why do you (assuming they actual do) [b]hate your own race/people[/b] (white, black, yellow, red, purple..etc)? [b]As if [/b]there's ONE STANDARD WAY to live, think, believe, work, play and thrive in life given your cultural heritage as a member of a certain race, sex, culture, ethnic group, economic group, social group...etc.

Do you NOT KNOW if your a man or women? Or
Do you NOT KNOW if your a {...fill-in-the blank}?[/LIST]Is it all just genuine curiosity or [b]hateful rhetoric[/b], meant to embarrass, insult and humiliate?

[u]StoryBook Hour:[/u]
With regards to kids learning, reading and attending a very cool "StoryBook Hour" vs. [b]attending a "Nazi" book-banning/booking-burning bonfire[/b], I'll take "StoryBook Hour", 24/7/365, each and every time.

But as you've stated, [b]clinically they are still men[/b], despite what Repubs and Christian right want you believe or think...RIGHT![/QUOTE]I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated by any belief system, but I really hate the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks. Just. Why? Are you just trying to piss people off? "look, we're coming for your children!" It's like you want people to vote the other way.

I miss the 90's. When you'd see these men dressed as women on Jerry Springer and everyone would have a good laugh. Nobody was pretending the emperor had clothes, we all knew it was a sex kink with these people.

It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a dude wearing a dress.

The number one reason I can never get on board with the left, is that they are complete moral fascists right now. They love to create new trendy "victim groups", then chastise anyone who doesn't pay the current victim group proper homage. And outright attack anyone who dares to disagree with their moralizing.

They are also the number one enemies of free speech right now. Every leftie I know is pro-censorship. They tell me we need to "stop the spread of misinformation", and "only approved experts should be allowed to have an opinion on a given subject".

It's really too bad, I actually agree with the left on a few topics, but they're like that annoying asshole at the campground who goes around telling all the other campers what the rules are, and looks for infractions to complain to management about.

Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.

[QUOTE=Huffington Post][b]Democrats And Republicans Agree: Minting A $1 Trillion Coin Isn't A Serious Idea[/b]

"[u]The idea[/u], which has been around during the [b]last decade of GOP brinkmanship[/b] over the debt limit, entails having the Treasury hand the Federal Reserve a single $1 trillion platinum coin."

[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mint-trillion-dollar-coin-debt_n_63cfedcee4b0c2b49ad81fc9[/URL][/QUOTE]

So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it [i][the one trillion dollar coin][/i] was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the [b][i]"GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor"[/i][/b]. Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, [i]"One coin to rule all the debt!"[/i] (...kkkk!)

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859862]Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.



So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it [i][the one trillion dollar coin][/i] was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the [b][i]"GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor"[/i][/b]. Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, [i]"One coin to rule all the debt!"[/i] (...kkkk!)[/QUOTE]

Spidy, thanks for the trillion dollar post, honestly. I never read up on idea until I read your other post earlier today. It's fascinating.

The only part Republicans played in creating the idea was passing a bill in 1996 that made it legal for the USA Mint to issue platinum coins in any denomination. The Republicans involved in writing the bill never dreamed the legislation would ever be used to create a $100,000 coin, let alone a $1 trillion coin.

There are laws that prevent the government from issuing gold and silver coins in any denomination in excess of $50. And similarly there are laws against just printing money and handing it over to the federal government. But those restrictions don't exist for platinum coins. Furthermore, the difference between the Mint's cost of producing a coin and the price it's sold at is turned over to the United States Treasury's General Fund, "where it reduces the government's need to borrow."

In 2012 the Obama Administration and Democrats were seeking to raise the debt limit, and Republicans were fighting back. Paul Krugman figured a nifty way around the purported Republican intransigence would be for the mint to create a trillion dollar coin, and then sell it to the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve deposits $1 trillion with the Treasury Department. Presto change-o, a trillion dollars have been created out of thin air, and the government doesn't need to raise the debt limit! And the Obama Administration has a trillion dollars, never appropriated by Congress, to use as it sees fit!

Krugman resuscitated his idea in 2021, when Republicans were filibustering an increase in the debt limit. Jerry Nadler, Democratic Congressman, has been a big fan of the idea since Krugman introduced it.

All this is legal by the way, according to the legal scholars, although hare brained IMHO.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin[/URL]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/biden-coin-democrat-republican-debt-limit.html[/URL]

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Democratic Party partisans and politicians own this idea, lock, stock and barrel.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859847]Interesting thoughts there Tooms. I'll summarize for those who don't have time to read the whole piece.

Trump is a mass murderer.

Trump converted a manageable regional epidemic into a worldwide pandemic.

The main stream media is pro Republican

Larry Summers is pro Republican and enjoys the company of right wingers

Republicans like to ride ponies and clear brush

The correct name for SARS-CoV-2 is not the COVID-19 virus or the China Virus. It's the Trump Virus.

Putin possibly got hold of accurate, written U.S. intelligence from Trump that motivated him to invade Ukraine. Thus the run up of the price of oil in 2022 was Trump's fault.

Hamas possibly got hold of stolen USA intelligence leaked by Trump that motivated it to invade Israel. That will result in a crippling effect on the world's oil supply chain.

The 2020 recession should be labeled as the Great Republican Economic Disaster, even though inflation adjusted GDP ended 2020 only 1.1% below where it started, despite the worst pandemic since 1918. And even though all spending in 2020 had to pass muster with Nancy Pelosi and Democrats.

The TCJA passed by Republicans costs 1.5 trillion every 10 years into infinity. (The provisions actually mostly expire at the end of 2025, although the corporate tax cut stays around. Even Biden doesn't want to take the corporate rate back to where it was before the TCJA. The TCJA "costs" nothing. Rather it reduces the amount government takes out of the pockets of taxpayers. Finally I have to give you credit for using the $1.5 trillion Congressional Budget Office estimate, instead of the $2.5 trillion you were quoting earlier.)

Economic performance is somehow related to the temperature of porridge

yada yada[/QUOTE]Couple of points you got wrong. See, this is why these points must be repeated. You obviously have not been paying attention:

Trump converted a "likely" manageable endemic confined to a region in China into the Trump's Pandemic it became. The evidence for that is overwhelming. He spent 2018,2019 and almost all of 2020 working very hard to make that happen. More than any other person on the Planet really.

There is no evidence that he "created" the virus that his Trump's Pandemic spread around the world and "caused all the problems. ".

That is why I have never posted such a thing.

The porridge reference is about your and Larry Summers' pro Repub "Bothsider / Neithersider" nonsense that incoming Dems being handed another in a long list of historic, unprecedented Great Disasters by the outgoing Repubs ought to simply produce recovery legislation responses to them that are "just right" to the dollar instead of sometimes getting it wrong.

"Just right" to the dollar only for that one moment in time, that is. LOL. As though that is the only damage to America that historic, unprecedented Great Repub Disasters will produce while Great Repub Disaster Loons are merely marking time until they can enjoy at least a Pink Tinkle advantage in Congress 2 years later so they can launch into more historic, unprecedented ways to Crash the USA Economy and, hopefully for their perpetual goal, wipe out millions upon millions of jobs.

As, sure enough, they are attempting to do right now.

When Repubs stop pulling shit like this and take at least a 6-12 month break from it, I'll stop mentioning it.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859862]Tiny 12, Where did you get those twisted facts about Krugman, being the progenitor of the coin idea?

Yes, junior congresswoman, Tlaib is still learning the ropes and won't (hopefully) further pose such non-serious Repub ideas. But, her heart was in the right place.

Yes, on October 1st, 2021, Mr. Krugman had suggested that to Biden, but the one (1) trillion dollar coin idea, existed some decades before Krugman's suggestion, as the Huff Post, reports in it's article below.



So although both Dems and Repubs, agree minting the coin isn't a serious idea, I can't shake the feeling and still think I remember this being an idea of Republican making. Or perhaps, I just heard it as GOP/Repub folklore?

Tiny 12, since you seem to be in the mood for stories, here's one I'd like to think we could add to GOP folklore? I called it, "GOP Lord of the Coins":

I would like to think, some might even say, it the one trillion dollar coin was forged by the lords of dark-money Repub think-tanks, deep in the "GOP/Repub Mountains of Mordor". Where upon the finishing of its making, the GOP faithful, all cried out to the skies above, "One coin to rule all the debt!"..kkkk![/QUOTE]Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL]

Spidy, Actually the idea originally came from some guy posting on the internet who went by the name Beowulf, and his buddies. Krugman adopted the idea and it took off. Beowulf probably felt like this guy.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859890]Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL][/QUOTE]That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

[url]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trillion-dollar-coin-inventor/[/url]

Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.

Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.

Speaking of large denomination coins, let's instead discuss the simple copper penny. We will know that real progress is being made in devaluing the worth of lobbyists when the penny is removed from circulation. However, it's unlikely that will ever happen because the copper industry and their lobbyists has such a large and disproportionate influence on American legislators. Every year, the US produces a ridiculous amount of pennies that end up in American homes in glass jars and the like never to see the light of day again.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2859959]That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

[url]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trillion-dollar-coin-inventor/[/url]

Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.

Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.[/QUOTE]Beowolf was a nobody answering a silly question. Even Paul Krugman was answering a silly question about it.

Bo Gritz was the Populist Party candidate for President of the United States of America in 1992.

Wasn't asking or proposing anything "silly" in his mind. He meant it.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959] ... Krugman resuscitated his idea in 2021, when Republicans were filibustering an increase in the debt limit. Jerry Nadler, Democratic Congressman, has been a big fan of the idea since Krugman introduced it.

All this is legal by the way, according to the legal scholars, although hare brained IMHO.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/biden-coin-democrat-republican-debt-limit.html[/URL]

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Democratic Party partisans and politicians own this idea, lock, stock and barrel. [/QUOTE] Not so fast young gun!

Yes I'd initially looked at and did read, both those articles (Wiki, NYT) and they do have Krugman as "agreeing to the idea", but not the progenitor of the idea. Note in the NYT article, he was simply asked the question, "[if the fed]...should be willing to mint the coin [u]to avoid default[/u]", to which he answered, "Yes, absolutely!".

BTW, I'd think, even you Tiny 12, can understand, that under duress from the seemingly callous and indifferent Repubs, to the country going down in flames from a debt default, the Dems were
simply entertaining ideas, save the country a possible catastrophe. Much like today, with the crazy political shenanigans of the MAGA Repubs.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959] Spidy, Actually the idea originally came from some guy posting on the internet who went by the name Beowulf, and his buddies. Krugman adopted the idea and it took off. Beowulf probably felt like this guy.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc[/URL][/QUOTE]
Yes, that is a classic Fed Ex commercial. I enjoyed the chuckle!

But I'm not sure it helps your case and perhaps highlights your possible attempt to gaslight the post from EihTooms, showing Mr. Gritz as the earliest progenitor of the idea.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959]
That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

[URL]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trilli...coin-inventor/[/URL]

Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.

Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.
[/QUOTE]

Oh really Tiny 12! Methinks, that's just more creative gaslighting.

Fact: EihTooms post of Mr. Gritz (in 1992), unequivocally predates all the Beowolf (the Georgian Lawyer, named Carlos Mucha) known article references.

The fact that YOU, [i]"doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz",[/i] is besides the point entirely and does call into question your powers of observation or deduction. As it is very very plausible [i]"Beowulf and his band of brothers"[/i] knew about Mr. Gritz, after all he, Mr. Gritz, did run in 1992 for President under the slogan: "God, Guns and Gritz,"

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859890] Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz [/URL][/QUOTE]

Kudos! Yes, your post has the oldest know date thus far of the inception of the coin idea being floated.

Many of the articles, have the inventor of the idea, originating with Beowolf (the Georgeian Lawyer, named Carlos Mucha) as noted in the link below from [b]Intelligencer[/b], which is probably the best (better than the Tiny's Wired ref.), that I've read on the topic thus far and actually names "Beowlf" as Carlos Mucha.

[b]The Man Who Invented the Trillion-Dollar Coin An Atlanta lawyer was just spitballing....[/b]
[URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/the-man-who-invented-the-trillion-dollar-coin.html[/URL]

BTW, Tiny 12, the [b]"God, Guns and Gritz,"[/b], slogan of Mr. Gritz, is very Republican of him, don't you think?

[QUOTE=Spidy;2860040]
BTW, Tiny 12, the [b]"God, Guns and Gritz,"[/b], slogan of Mr. Gritz, is very Republican of him, don't you think?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859890]
It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL][/QUOTE]You guys are hopeless. Still trying to spin this as a Republican idea, when it's actually been proposed repeatedly by Democrats to force Republicans to raise the debt ceiling. And to create money out of thin air. Well, I'll give your side some credit. Trillion dollar platinum coins are a lot more creative than what Robert Mugabe and Nicolas Maduro came up with to pay their bills.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2859965]Speaking of large denomination coins, let's instead discuss the simple copper penny. We will know that real progress is being made in devaluing the worth of lobbyists when the penny is removed from circulation. However, it's unlikely that will ever happen because the copper industry and their lobbyists has such a large and disproportionate influence on American legislators. Every year, the US produces a ridiculous amount of pennies that end up in American homes in glass jars and the like never to see the light of day again.[/QUOTE]For a long time pennies have been mostly made of zinc. And the USA Mint only consumes about 0. 3% of world zinc production annually. They're actually 2. 5% copper and 97.5% zinc. The Mint buys an infinitesimal percentage of world copper production, in percentage terms.

That said it honestly sounds like a great idea to me. It could make a lot of sense to get rid of pennies or slice a digit off the currency.

Or maybe make everyone turn in all their paper money and coins, and issue digital currency in its place. Everyone would carry a digital wallet the government could track. And when you turn in your paper money to get your digital wallet, the banks would report any large amounts, say over $600, to the IRS, so they can make use of the extra $60 billion the politicians allocated to the agency recently. Then maybe hook the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms in with the IRS, so that when the IRS goes hunting for the cash turned in by the criminals and the tax cheaters, the ATF can confiscate their guns at the same time. (Just kidding!)

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860044]You guys are hopeless. Still trying to spin this as a Republican idea, when it's actually been proposed repeatedly by Democrats to force Republicans to raise the debt ceiling. And to create money out of thin air. Well, I'll give your side some credit. Trillion dollar platinum coins are a lot more creative than what Robert Mugabe and Nicolas Maduro came up with to pay their bills.[/QUOTE]Your search for evidence that a Dem originated the idea was apparently hopeless.

Your search for evidence that Paul Krugman originated the idea was apparently hopeless.

Your search for evidence that any politician or legitimate political Party candidate for POTUS who actually appeared on ballots originated the idea as a serious proposal earlier or other than Populist Party candidate Bo Gritz in 1992 was apparently hopeless.

Your search for evidence that any Dem Politician seriously proposed the idea for any reason other than to force Deadbeat Repubs to pay the record high increase in the debts they rack up while Repub spiritual twin Bo Gritz' 1992 proposal was the serious proposal that needed 'splainin' was apparently hopeless.

Spidy and I are simply presenting the actual facts, the easily accessible historical record and the fully substantiated and linked truth of the matter in order to hopefully steer you away from your unsupported suggestion that it was originated by a Dem or by Paul Krugman or anyone other an obvious spiritual twin of Repubs, a candidate who was very likely a total Repub Party believer but who in 1992 was just too embarassed by the grossly inferior economic, jobs creation and fiscal irresponsibility results of the previous 12 years of his beloved iconic Repub economic stewardship vs to the far superior results produced by Jimmy Carter and every other Dem and he therefore hid behind a Third Party affiliation, a "Bothsider / Neithersider" pretext to still tout typically numbskull and repeatedly horrifically failed Repub Party economic ideas as a Third Party candidate.

A candidate I am guessing you would have enthusiastically supported then as now, BTW.

And we are doing it to protect anyone else reading your unsupported suggestion from being misled to the dangerous conclusion that Dems rather than Repubs and pro Repub Bothsider / Neithersiders are the ones who come up with these proven disastrous numbskull economic ideas, policies and agendas time and time again.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860049]Or maybe make everyone turn in all their paper money and coins, and issue digital currency in its place. Everyone would carry a digital wallet the government could track. And when you turn in your paper money to get your digital wallet, the banks would report any large amounts, say over $600, to the IRS, so they can make use of the extra $60 billion the politicians allocated to the agency recently. Then maybe hook the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms in with the IRS, so that when the IRS goes hunting for the cash turned in by the criminals and the tax cheaters, the ATF can confiscate their guns at the same time. (Just kidding!)[/QUOTE]I fear digital money. And although I am a fan of crypto, I am in fear of CBDC. I use cash for POS transactions as much as possible. It is untraceable. I acknowledge that as world traveler, digital transfers of money are unavoidable. But once you get it off shore and adhere to certain limits and reporting requirements, you can drop the money you move into the system off the grid. That is, if you know what you are doing.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860119]I am in fear of CBDC. [/QUOTE]I don't understand it, but intuitively fear it too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's kind of like the digital wallet in my post? It's the government keeping track of the money in your account, not your bank?

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860119]I use cash for POS transactions as much as possible. It is untraceable. [/QUOTE]That's probably wise. I don't because I'm lazy and want the frequent flyer points that come with card charges. Which admittedly may be penny wise and pound foolish.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860119]I acknowledge that as world traveler, digital transfers of money are unavoidable. But once you get it off shore and adhere to certain limits and reporting requirements, you can drop the money you move into the system off the grid. That is, if you know what you are doing.[/QUOTE]I don't understand or entirely trust crypto. If you just use bank accounts like I do, there's really no legal way. And no illegal way I'd feel comfortable with. I like to sleep well at night. The penalties for failing to file the FBAR reporting foreign bank accounts are too severe -- they can take several times the maximum value in your account and put you in jail.

Too bad a crypto sleuth hasn't revealed the true extent of machinations worldwide, a la Snowden. A buddy suggested that the Hamas recent acts were funded with crypto originating in Russia. I'll ask him for more details. The weapons used maybe originated in Russia & China, if one can believe western intelligence.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860084]Your search for evidence that a Dem originated the idea was apparently hopeless.[/QUOTE]Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, is a Democrat. He's more partisan than you are.

[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860084]Your search for evidence that Paul Krugman originated the idea was apparently hopeless.[/QUOTE]Krugman popularized the idea. James K. Gabraith, another Democrat economist, and Lawrence Tribe, a Democrat attorney, did as well, but this would have never attracted attention if Krugman hadn't gotten behind it.

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/[/URL]

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/barbarous-relics/[/URL]

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/thinking-about-the-brink/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-krugman-trillion-dollar-coin_n_2427160[/URL]

[URL]https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1653739546800971776[/URL]

[URL]https://fortune.com/2023/05/03/paul-krugman-biden-mint-trillion-dollar-coin-other-option-national-debt-ceiling/[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860084]Your search for evidence that any politician or legitimate political Party candidate for POTUS who actually appeared on ballots originated the idea as a serious proposal earlier or other than Populist Party candidate Bo Gritz in 1992 was apparently hopeless.[/QUOTE]Nobody who matters ever heard of Bo Gritz. Many a tin pot dictator in South America and Africa did what Bo Gritz proposed, only it involved printing paper instead of minting coins. Gritz's proposal wouldn't have passed muster with the courts in 1992 when he ran for president, and none of the Democrats who popularized the trillion dollar coin were influenced by the guy.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860084]Your search for evidence that any Dem Politician seriously proposed the idea for any reason other than to force Deadbeat Repubs to pay the record high increase in the debts they rack up while Repub spiritual twin Bo Gritz' 1992 proposal was the serious proposal that needed 'splainin' was apparently hopeless.[/QUOTE]Rashida Tlaib proposed minting two trillion dollar platinum coins to pay $2000 up front and $1000 per month every month to most Americans until a year after COVID ended. Presumably that would have been $4,000 a month for a family of four even if the husband and wife were employed.

[URL]https://tlaib.house.gov/posts/common-dreams-two-1-trillion-coins-rashida-tlaib-proposal-calls-on-us-treasury-to-fund-coronavirus-recovery-from-us-mint[/URL]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860084] and I are simply presenting the actual facts, the easily accessible historical record and the fully substantiated and linked truth of the matter in order to hopefully steer you away from your unsupported suggestion that it was originated by a Dem or by Paul Krugman or anyone other an obvious spiritual twin of Repubs, a candidate who was very likely a total Repub Party believer but who in 1992 was just too embarassed by the grossly inferior economic, jobs creation and fiscal irresponsibility results of the previous 12 years of his beloved iconic Repub economic stewardship vs to the far superior results produced by Jimmy Carter and every other Dem and he therefore hid behind a Third Party affiliation, a "Bothsider / Neithersider" pretext to still tout typically numbskull and repeatedly horrifically failed Repub Party economic ideas as a Third Party candidate.

A candidate I am guessing you would have enthusiastically supported then as now, BTW.

And we are doing it to protect anyone else reading your unsupported suggestion from being misled to the dangerous conclusion that Dems rather than Repubs and pro Repub Bothsider / Neithersiders are the ones who come up with these proven disastrous numbskull economic ideas, policies and agendas time and time again.[/QUOTE]Gritz was a nut case. Thus you feel compelled to label him as pro Republican and label me as one of his supporters. Well, at least you're smart enough to know the idea, the trillion dollar platinum coin, is nutty.

You should have just argued that, despite the support of Krugman, Jerry Nadler, Tlaib and some other Democrats, this is a fringe idea that neither the Obama nor Biden Administrations supported. I would have agreed with you. And as to "protecting anyone else reading your unsupported suggestion," you, Spidy and I are probably the only ones reading these posts. I've given up on converting both of you. I do though still pray to the Saints of Classical Liberalism (Hayek, Friedman, von Mises and Ronald Reagan) for your immortal souls from time to time.

And I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should too. Spidy mistakenly called the trillion dollar platinum coin idea a Republican idea and it wasn't. It was a Democrat idea, to be able to bypass Republicans to increase the debt limit. You guys could have gracefully admitted the mistake but instead came up with a bizarre line of reasoning that makes Sidney Powell's theories about the 2020 election look reasonable.

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2860310]Too bad a crypto sleuth hasn't revealed the true extent of machinations worldwide, a la Snowden. A buddy suggested that the Hamas recent acts were funded with crypto originating in Russia. I'll ask him for more details. The weapons used maybe originated in Russia & China, if one can believe western intelligence.[/QUOTE]The WSJ wrote about this a couple of days ago. The name of the Russian cypto exchange is Garantex. Russians use it to move money in and out of the country, to avoid sanctions. One of Hamas' partners, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, received millions through Garantex.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/garantex-russian-crypto-hamas-crime-sanctions-a3648357[/URL]

PM me if you don't subscribe and want the text.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860313]Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, is a Democrat. He's more partisan than you are.

[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL]

Krugman popularized the idea. James K. Gabraith, another Democrat economist, and Lawrence Tribe, a Democrat attorney, did as well, but this would have never attracted attention if Krugman hadn't gotten behind it.

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/[/URL]

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/barbarous-relics/[/URL]

[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/thinking-about-the-brink/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-krugman-trillion-dollar-coin_n_2427160[/URL]

[URL]https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1653739546800971776[/URL]

[URL]https://fortune.com/2023/05/03/paul-krugman-biden-mint-trillion-dollar-coin-other-option-national-debt-ceiling/[/URL]

Nobody who matters ever heard of Bo Gritz. Many a tin pot dictator in South America and Africa did what Bo Gritz proposed, only it involved printing paper instead of minting coins. Gritz's proposal wouldn't have passed muster with the courts in 1992 when he ran for president, and none of the Democrats who popularized the trillion dollar coin were influenced by the guy.

Rashida Tlaib proposed minting two trillion dollar platinum coins to pay $2000 up front and $1000 per month every month to most Americans until a year after COVID ended. Presumably that would have been $4,000 a month for a family of four even if the husband and wife were employed.

[URL]https://tlaib.house.gov/posts/common-dreams-two-1-trillion-coins-rashida-tlaib-proposal-calls-on-us-treasury-to-fund-coronavirus-recovery-from-us-mint[/URL]

Gritz was a nut case. Thus you feel compelled to label him as pro Republican and label me as one of his supporters. Well, at least you're smart enough to know the idea, the trillion dollar platinum coin, is nutty.

You should have just argued that, despite the support of Krugman, Jerry Nadler, Tlaib and some other Democrats, this is a fringe idea that neither the Obama nor Biden Administrations supported. I would have agreed with you. And as to "protecting anyone else reading your unsupported suggestion," you, Spidy and I are probably the only ones reading these posts. I've given up on converting both of you. I do though still pray to the Saints of Classical Liberalism (Hayek, Friedman, von Mises and Ronald Reagan) for your immortal souls from time to time.

And I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should too. Spidy mistakenly called the trillion dollar platinum coin idea a Republican idea and it wasn't. It was a Democrat idea, to be able to bypass Republicans to increase the debt limit. You guys could have gracefully admitted the mistake but instead came up with a bizarre line of reasoning that makes Sidney Powell's theories about the 2020 election look reasonable.[/QUOTE]But Beowolf did not come up with the idea. The Repub Party's spiritual twin Bo Gritz did.

Many people who were paying attention in 1992 knew about Bo Gritz. Even about his magic coin idea, dumb enough to only come from a Repub mindset.

I knew about him and his magic coin idea in 1992 because at that time I still had a bit of numbskull "Bothsider / Neithersider" lingering in me so I was looking for a Third Party alternative. Not as much numbskull mindset as whatever possessed me to vote for Teflon Ronnie in 1980. But some. In fact, I voted for a Third Party candidate in 1992.

That is why I knew to look up Bo Gritz as the likely originator of that magic coin idea. I remembered it coming from him. And I remember thinking then that his ideas were so stupid and in line with the way Repubs think he really ought to run more honestly as a Repub.

Today, Bo Gritz, exactly as he was in 1992, saying exactly the same things in the same way, proposing exactly those same Repub ideas would be ahead of Trump, DeSantis, Haley and the rest by at least 70 points in the Repub Party POTUS Nominee polling consensus.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]I don't understand it, but intuitively fear it too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's kind of like the digital wallet in my post? It's the government keeping track of the money in your account, not your bank? [/QUOTE]That is exactly it! The government will have either direct access to your CBDC account or it will be a pass through of information through the banks. GOVs have a lot of hurdles to work through because if they do it wrong they will put the banks out of business. My best guess is that they are going to attack crypto at the off ramps and by making it illegal to hold crypto directly. They probably want to make banks the official custodians of all money. GOVs fear crypto more than gold or silver. Gold and silver are hard to move. Crypto is the first medium of exchange where you can self custody and move it at the speed to light, without and intermediary. Right now there is very low adoption. That is the only reason GOVs are not really paying attention to crypto. But as more people wake up to the fiat currency scam, you are going to see crypto get a lot more attention.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]That's probably wise. I don't because I'm lazy and want the frequent flyer points that come with card charges. Which admittedly may be penny wise and pound foolish.[/QUOTE]We all have our priorities and I will never tell people how to use their money. But over in the [I]Pattaya Reports[/I] thread there is a mother fucker who says he uses bank transfers to pay prostitutes. Nah brother. I pay cash. Even law enforcement agencies say that if you are engaged in illegal activities you should use cash. Anything else they say they can track down.

[URL]https://cointelegraph.com/news/secret-service-praise-blockchain-reddit-ama/amp[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]I don't understand or entirely trust crypto. If you just use bank accounts like I do, there's really no legal way. And no illegal way I'd feel comfortable with. I like to sleep well at night.[/QUOTE]I understand crypto but do not entirely trust all crypto. There is BTC and everything else.

I do not engage in illegal financial activities of any type. It is legal to own crypto. You must report your activities to the IRS (if pay taxes in the USA). But if you put your crypto into a cold wallet and then store it some place, that does not require any reporting until you use it for something, sell or transfer it. Just check the box on your tax return to avoid lying on a report to the USGOV.

But the GOVs in general have a problem. They must rely on self reporting. Because if you transfer your crypto directly to someone else by operating your own full node (computer and software that costs about 300 - 400 USD) the only footprint that is left is on the blockchain of the crypto itself. Use a coin mixer and it is becomes impossible to trace. Like dropping your crypto into a black hole. The problem is for the average individual is that it takes a lot of research and knowledge to pull this all off (I have done the research and I know what I am doing). Some may think, well why would you be doing this if you are not doing something illegal? Why do you pay prostitutes in cash in countries where prostitution is legal?

[B]The defense rests.[/B]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]The penalties for failing to file the FBAR reporting foreign bank accounts are too severe -- they can take several times the maximum value in your account and put you in jail.[/QUOTE]Let me give you a hypothetical: You transfer money to your foreign bank below the allowed limits. Then you take the money out of your account in cash (USD or the foreign currency of the country where you are banking) and put it into safe keeping. Can you tell me how that is illegal or a violation of the foreign bank account reporting standards?

I am not taking issue with you my ISG brother. I am making an attempt to share information and make people think.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860474]But over in the [I]Pattaya Reports[/I] thread there is a mother fucker who says he uses bank transfers to pay prostitutes. Nah brother. I pay cash.....Why do you pay prostitutes in cash in countries where prostitution is legal?
[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. I don't think U.S law enforcement would or could come after someone for paying a prostitute in a country where prostitution is legal, provided she's not underage or trafficked, and few or none of us would knowingly have sex with women in that category. However, I don't really know any more. You've got FOSTA, SESTA, the Mann Act and state statutes on the books, so it's hard to keep up with it all. And for anyone who has a wife or an employer who frowns upon our hobby, using cash makes even more sense.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860474]Let me give you a hypothetical: You transfer money to your foreign bank below the allowed limits. Then you take the money out of your account in cash (USD or the foreign currency of the country where you are banking) and put it into safe keeping. Can you tell me how that is illegal or a violation of the foreign bank account reporting standards?

I am not taking issue with you my ISG brother. I am making an attempt to share information and make people think.[/QUOTE]That works if the "combined balance of all the foreign accounts you own or have a financial interest in or signature authority over" is less than $10,000 throughout the year. If that's case there's no requirement to file the Fincen Form 114 (FBAR) with the Treasury Department.

There's another form you file with your tax return, Form 8938, that pretty much duplicates what's on the FBAR. You list your foreign accounts and maximum balances. But you don't have to file that provided you have less than $50,000 in total foreign financial assets.

And finally there's a box you have to check on your Schedule B of Form 1040 if you have a foreign account. This needs to be checked regardless of the balance in your foreign accounts. And you need to report all income from your foreign accounts on your tax return.

Foreign banks and other foreign financial institutions report certain info about their American customers accounts to the IRS under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). I don't know the details but would assume that applies regardless of the customer's balance. There are many foreign banks and brokers that won't accept USA Clients because they don't want to jack with the reporting requirements under FATCA.

You probably know all or most of the preceding, but maybe it's worth mentioning for anyone else interested in this who happens to be reading.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860313]And I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should too. [b]Spidy mistakenly called the trillion dollar platinum coin idea a Republican idea[/b] and it wasn't. It was a Democrat idea, to be able to bypass Republicans to increase the debt limit. You guys could have gracefully admitted the mistake but instead came up with a bizarre line of reasoning that makes Sidney Powell's theories about the 2020 election look reasonable. [/QUOTE] Talk about hopeless! (...kkkk!) No you'd be wrong again! I never called the Repubs, the progenitor of the coin idea.

Here is what I wrote:
[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614] ... Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE] Tiny 12, to be clear, no where in my initial post do I say that Repubs, are the progenitor of the coin idea. I only stated they (ISG Repubs) often loved to "float" idea.

I was simply saying, I thought I had remembered that Repubs (meaning and mainly referring to the [b]"ISG Republican pseudo economists"[/b], w/r to past forum discussions on the topic, whom), just loved to float the coin idea, as a solution to the debt problem. I seem to remember them bringing it up all the time. And then I asked, how would it work?

Tiny 12, I submit, it was you, who then [b]twisted and put a spin on the articles[/b] you put forth, as the Dems being the progenitor of the coin idea. And then later declared Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, as the one. Yes, those articles have some Dems agreeing to the idea of using "a coin" idea in one way or another, to solve a crisis (often Repub made), but [u]NOT the progenitor[/u] of the coin idea.

EihTooms, then presented evidence, that clearly rebuts your arguments and [u]clearly predates ALL your findings[/u] and conclusively thus far, squarely points the finger at Mr. Bo Gritz ("a closet Republican"), being the progenitor of the coin idea.

So with Mr. Gritz (the "closet Repub" wannabe) as the clear front runner to the progenitor of the coin idea, thus far, prompted me, in jest, to create more Repub folklore, [i]"GOP Lord of the Coins"[/i]. Since, after all Mr. Gritz, is really a Republican, even if he is still in the closet.

On your very own, Tiny 12, YOU were the one who [b]jumped[/b] to the conclusion, I said, [b]"Republicans created the trillion dollar coin idea"[/b], albeit perhaps from a Repub guilty conscience? Knowing that Repubs are most often guilty and responsible for so much nutty duress on the US economy and political health of the country?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860488]That works if the "combined balance of all the foreign accounts you own or have a financial interest in or signature authority over" is less than $10,000 throughout the year. If that's case there's no requirement to file the Fincen Form 114 (FBAR) with the Treasury Department.

There's another form you file with your tax return, Form 8938, that pretty much duplicates what's on the FBAR. You list your foreign accounts and maximum balances. But you don't have to file that provided you have less than $50,000 in total foreign financial assets.

And finally there's a box you have to check on your Schedule B of Form 1040 if you have a foreign account. This needs to be checked regardless of the balance in your foreign accounts. And you need to report all income from your foreign accounts on your tax return..[/QUOTE]You are keeping it 100 my ISG Brother about the reporting requirements. And I think it is very accurate that you shared. Any one that goes off shore better know what they are doing.

But if you do not exceed 10,000 USD balance in all of your foreign accounts throughout the year you can avoid a lot of the reporting requirements just by staying below the limits. But if you earn income on those accounts then can not avoid them no matter what your balances are. But when it comes to foreign holdings, there is a really big loop hole that you can drive a truck trough. Foreign held real estate in your own name. If you do not hold it in your own name you are going to have to report it on IRS Form 8938.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2860536]Talk about hopeless! (...kkkk!) No you'd be wrong again! I never called the Repubs, the progenitor of the coin idea.

Here is what I wrote:
Tiny 12, to be clear, no where in my initial post do I say that Repubs, are the progenitor of the coin idea. I only stated they (ISG Repubs) often loved to "float" idea.

I was simply saying, I thought I had remembered that Repubs (meaning and mainly referring to the "ISG Republican pseudo economists", w/r to past forum discussions on the topic, whom), just loved to float the coin idea, as a solution to the debt problem. I seem to remember them bringing it up all the time. And then I asked, how would it work?

Tiny 12, I submit, it was you, who then []twisted and put a spin on the articles you put forth, as the Dems being the progenitor of the coin idea. And then later declared Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, as the one. Yes, those articles have some Dems agreeing to the idea of using "a coin" idea in one way or another, to solve a crisis (often Repub made), but [u]NOT the progenitor[/u] of the coin idea.

EihTooms, than presented evidence, that clearly rebuts your arguments and clearly predates ALL your findings and conclusively thus far, squarely points the finger at Mr. Bo Gritz ("a closet Republican"), being the progenitor of the coin idea.

So with Mr. Gritz (the "closet Repub" wannabe) as the clear front runner to the progenitor of the coin idea, thus far, prompted me, in jest, to create more Repub folklore, [i]"GOP Lord of the Coins"[/i]. Since, after all Mr. Gritz, is really a Republican, even if he is still in the closet.

On your very own, Tiny 12, YOU were the one who jumped to the conclusion, I said, "Republicans created the trillion dollar coin idea", albeit perhaps from a Repub guilty conscience? Knowing that Repubs are most often guilty and responsible for so much nutty duress on the US economy and political health of the country?[/QUOTE]Spidy, It's pretty obvious what you meant. See the bold text below. You meant every Republican and his dog wants to mint a trillion dollar coin to pay down the debt.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614]Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

[u]Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin" (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.[/b][/u]

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE]So we've established that the following famous people promoted the idea of a trillion dollar coin, for the purpose of paying down the national debt or, in the case of Tlaib, two coins to pay $1,000 a month to most Americans:

Paul Krugman: Renowned Democrat economist.
Lawrence Tribe: Renowned Democrat attorney.
James Galbraith: Well known Democrat economist, where I live anyway.
Jerry Nadler: Famous Democratic Congressman.
Rashida Tlaib: Famous Democratic Congresswoman.

And two nobodies:

Bo Gritz, Populist candidate for president who received 0.14% of the popular vote.
Carlos Mucha, aka Beowulf, Democrat Attorney.

And I'm not sure exactly what Gritz proposed, as I'm not seeing any contemporaneous reporting from 1992. Presumably he did not propose a platinum coin, because that wasn't allowed in 1992, and whatever he proposed was an impossibility at the time, as legally the government couldn't mint a coin with a larger denomination than $50 until 1996.

Contrary to what you posted, "every Repub and their dog," there aren't ANY Republicans on that list.

In yet another twist to the one (1) Trillion dollar coin, debt, this article (below) suggests, ex-Pres Ronald Reagan (GOP/Repub), should be the [b]"face of the coin"[/b].

What an interesting and novel idea. Why didn't I think of that? (...kkkk!)

[b]Why Ronald Reagan Should Be on the $1 Trillion Platinum Coin [/b]
[URL]https://ourfuture.org/20130110/why-ronald-reagan-should-be-on-the-1-trillion-platinum-coin?[/URL]

[QUOTE]"... If the White House decides to mint the coin, the Treasury should [b]put Reagan's picture on it[/b]. And if I were president Obama, just for fun I'd drill a hole through it, put it on a chain, and wear it around my neck at the next State of the Union."[/QUOTE]

I nominate Trump, as butt-end (or tails) of the coin...kkkk!

[QUOTE=Spidy;2860544]In yet another twist to the one (1) Trillion dollar coin, debt, this article (below) suggests, ex-Pres Ronald Reagan (GOP/Repub), should be the [b]"face of the coin"[/b].

What an interesting and novel idea. Why didn't I think of that? (...kkkk!)

[b]Why Ronald Reagan Should Be on the $1 Trillion Platinum Coin [/b]
[URL]https://ourfuture.org/20130110/why-ronald-reagan-should-be-on-the-1-trillion-platinum-coin?[/URL]



I nominate Trump, as butt-end (or tails) of the coin...kkkk![/QUOTE]Great idea! But your article is way too subjective. We need a systematic and fair way to pick the presidents, for the trillion dollar platinum coin to pay down the debt. And Tooms has given us just what we need!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859105]
[B]U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage.[/B]

[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225[/URL][/QUOTE]

Let's stick to Tooms' philosophy, that something like a pandemic, or presumably a war, is no excuse for an increase in the debt. Do we look at the run up in the debt in dollar terms or percentage terms?

Well, if it's dollar terms, then yes, Trump's the tail! And Obama, who presided over a $7. 6 trillion increase in the debt, larger than Trump's $6. 7 trillion, is the head!

If Biden wins re-election and gets to govern again with a Democratic House and Senate then I bet he'll edge out Trump, and maybe Obama. So maybe we should wait. Tooms' link must be a little old, as it only shows a $2.5 trillion run up in the debt under Biden, but it has really been $4.2 trillion so far.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN

On the other hand we could look at the percentage increase. Then Franklin Roosevelt's the head and Woodrow Wilson is the tail.

Again, please, no argument about the basis for selecting the winners. If we're not going to use a pandemic as an excuse, we darn sure shouldn't use war as an excuse. A war is often avoidable and a pandemic is not.

[QUOTE] Tiny wrote - Let's stick to Tooms' philosophy, that something like a pandemic, or presumably a war, is no excuse for an increase in the debt. [/QUOTE]Where in the world did you come up with that one? Of course, Trump's Pandemic was cause to increase the debt, as was the Great Repub Depressions, Great Repub Recessions, the Great Repub Jobs Destructions, etc.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860542]Spidy, It's pretty obvious what you meant. See the bold text below. You meant every Republican and his dog wants to mint a trillion dollar coin to pay down the debt.

[B]So we've established that the following famous people promoted the idea of a trillion dollar coin, for the purpose of paying down the national debt or, in the case of Tlaib, two coins to pay $1,000 a month to most Americans:[/b]

Paul Krugman: Renowned Democrat economist.
Lawrence Tribe: Renowned Democrat attorney.
James Galbraith: Well known Democrat economist, where I live anyway.
Jerry Nadler: Famous Democratic Congressman.
Rashida Tlaib: Famous Democratic Congresswoman.[/QUOTE]No, neither you, your links, we, nor anyone else have established any such thing. They responded to questions about it and made the case for it only as a silly or bad idea that isn't as silly and bad as what Repubs repeatedly propose for dealing with it; Not paying the debt they racked up and allowing USA to default.

Repub spiritual twin and running for POTUS too soon to be the far and away front runner for the Repub Party nominee Bo Gritz was the first politician and as far as I know the only one so far who promoted the magic coin idea without that economically disastrous Repub threat at his back.

Your pro Repub spin that those Dems "popularized" or "promoted" the idea of minting a magic coin to pay down the massive debts that horrific Repub policies and stewardship produce is like saying people on the ground witnessing the poor souls leaping out of 100 story windows of the World Trade Center because a blazing fireball of airline fuel and shrapnel was at their backs during Bush's 9/11 Attack and commenting that they understood why they lept and would probably have done the same were "popularizing" and "promoting" the idea of leaping out of 100 story windows.

Uh. No. The terrorists who flew those planes into the World Trade Center are the ones who "popularized" and "promoted" that idea.

Same with the Repub economic terrorists who repeatedly threaten to default on their debt re the magic coin idea response.

Without Repubs repeatedly threatening to force the USA to default on the loan debts that horrific Repub economic policies and stewardship cause to be racked up more than any other factor including all the "wild coincidences" you can imagine, no Dem would ever consider Repub spiritual twin Bo Gritz' magic coin idea as a last ditch alternative to something far worse.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated by any belief system, but I really hate the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks. Just. Why? Are you just trying to piss people off? "look, we're coming for your children!" It's like you want people to vote the other way. [/QUOTE] Not sure what the idea is, you are trying to communicate? Are you saying, their "life style choices" will ONLY make other people vote a certain way? The Republican or right-wing way?

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]I miss the 90's. When you'd see these men dressed as women on Jerry Springer and everyone would have a good laugh. Nobody was pretending the emperor had clothes, we all knew it was a sex kink with these people.

It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a [b]dude wearing a dress.[/b][/QUOTE] Never did see the appeal myself. That being, taking the pis-s (or taking pleasure) from other people's differences, anguish or duress, is IMHO the "lowest hanging fruit" and the lowest form of entertainment. Anyways, I think (maybe) their target audience with was more geared towards viewers, with a grade 10 level education.

But in reality, such shows only serve to blind, weak minded viewers into passive believers of "fake indoctrination" and of course, all in the name of TV ratings. But also, to obfuscate "the real indoctrination", happening behind close doors, they don't want you talking or thinking about. More on this, later!

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a dude wearing a dress.[/QUOTE] No I think you're wrong. Believe it or not, most of us the left [b]also know[/b] its a [i]"dude wearing a dress".[/i] However, I think (IMHO), those on the centre-left/left, will tend to empathize more with people who are different, make different "life style choices" or have different "cultural norms", than the [b]prototypical "straight male gaze"[/b].

Put differently, the left are just [b]more tolerant[/b] and [b]more accepting[/b] of [b]people who are different[/b] than themselves. I think in general, the left is amoral about the "life style choices" of others and more importantly, the left is always willing to [i]defend their right[/i] to live said choices. Provided of course, they follow and obey [u]just laws[/u] and they aren't harming anyone but themselves or other consenting adults.

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]The number one reason I can never get on board with the left, is that they are complete moral fascists right now. They love to create new trendy "victim groups", then chastise anyone who doesn't pay the current victim group proper homage. And outright attack anyone who dares to disagree with their moralizing.

They are also the number one enemies of free speech right now. Every leftie I know is pro-censorship. They tell me we need to "stop the spread of misinformation", and "only approved experts

should be allowed to have an opinion on a given subject".[/QUOTE] While I disagree with assessment of the left here, any so called "leftie attack" would most likely only be mostly verbal in nature, with only perhaps either a verbal insult and/or bruised ego to their victims.

Compare that with an "attack" from the right, and you're more than likely [b]left[/b] (pun intended) [b]for dead[/b]. Possible outcomes for their "victim groups" include, AR-15'd, gunned down, stabbed, flag-poled to death, vehicular manslaughter while protesting, punched and kicked to death, beaten with blunt object...etc, get the picture?

I'll take my "verbal assault" from the left and live to fight another day verses a "beat-down" from the right and pray my healthcare premiums are paid up in full. That is of course, if I manage to survive. Is it any wonder your very own Repub congressmen and women are paying like $5K/day for security, to protect themselves against QAnon/MAGA right-wingers, just because they don't agree with the rest of their right-wing colleagues on being loyal to Trump and/or related issues?

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]It's really too bad, I actually agree with the left on a few topics, but they're like that annoying asshole at the campground who goes around telling all the other campers what the rules are, and looks for infractions to complain to management about. [/QUOTE]Interesting analogy! Name one (or some) of those topics on the left that you would agree with? Cause right now it's very hard for me to find anything the Repubs (or the right) have done, that I could in good conscience agree with. But then again it's hard to find policies that have benefited most middle/working class Americans, if you've done nothing in the way of passing said policies, for the past several decades.

More to come...

[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated by any belief system, but I really hate the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks. Just. Why? Are you just trying to piss people off? "look, we're coming for your children!" It's like you want people to vote the other way.

It's definitely only the left who are pretending "trans women are real women". Everyone else knows that it's a dude wearing a dress.

The number one reason I can never get on board with the left, is that they are complete moral fascists right now. They love to create new trendy "victim groups", then chastise anyone who doesn't pay the current victim group proper homage. And outright attack anyone who dares to disagree with their moralizing.

They are also the number one enemies of free speech right now. Every leftie I know is pro-censorship. They tell me we need to "stop the spread of misinformation", and "only approved experts should be allowed to have an opinion on a given subject".

It's really too bad, I actually agree with the left on a few topics, but they're like that annoying asshole at the campground who goes around telling all the other campers what the rules are, and looks for infractions to complain to management about.[/QUOTE]So you are anti Christion for them indoctrinating children.

The left just don't care about peoples lifestyle choices unless they try and force those choices onto you as the right like to do.

The biggest victim in the US right now is Donald Trump, crybaby extraordinaire.

The left are the defenders of free speech. The right are the champions of lies and propaganda. What is anti. Wokism if not anti free speech?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860316]The WSJ wrote about this a couple of days ago. The name of the Russian cypto exchange is Garantex. Russians use it to move money in and out of the country, to avoid sanctions. One of Hamas' partners, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, received millions through Garantex.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/finance/currencies/garantex-russian-crypto-hamas-crime-sanctions-a3648357[/URL]

PM me if you don't subscribe and want the text.[/QUOTE]Thank you for sharing the WSJ article with me. It brought joy to my heart, supporting everything I have believed about cash and crypto. Not a single mention of gold and silver. Cash and crypto is the way to go. If you live in a place where the government does not fuck with it, they cannot track it. That is behind the push for CBDCs. In my opinion everyone everywhere about the world should fight like hell against them being implemented. And if we cannot carry the day then make preparations to operate off the grid.

I wanted to circle-back to your opening line and add some additional thoughts, to my previous post, as a separate, but inclusive response/post:

You Said:
[QUOTE=CrowExplorer;2859855]I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated [u]by any belief system[/u], but I really hate the idea of [b]children being exposed to sexual freaks.[/b] ...[/QUOTE]

First, I'm sure many of us, mongers on this ISG forum, at one time or another, have been called "sexual freaks" (naturally from the women and girls we've seen and been with over the years). And I'm sure we all, still consider ourselves to be [i]"good people"[/i] around kids. So is that really a good metric or criteria you wanna "hang your hat on" when it comes to hanging around children?

Secondly, while I acknowledge that your entitled to feel the way you do, I think your outrage, hate or dislike towards StoryBook Hour (SBH) readings, is misplaced, unfounded and simply I feel, is just overblown right-wing media hype and propaganda.

If the parents of the kids see fit to take their kids to a SBH reading hour, who are you to say otherwise? Conversely, while I may find parents who take their kids to a "Nazi" style book-ban/book-burning event/protest, very distasteful, disgusting, immoral, unethical, stupid and pathetic, [b]I (and/or the left) will still defend their right to do so.[/b]

Thirdly, when you consider the millions of sexual abuse cases, against a trusted and venerated institution, that the right hold very dear to their identity, you begin to understand [b]the hypocrisy[/b], behind the right-wing's hate for SBH reading hour.

[b]What institution[/b] is that you ask?...that would be [b]the Church[/b] and the clergymen (and women), priests, bishops and cardinals that hide their sexual perversions under the [i]"Cloak of the Good Book/Bible"[/i] and the [i]"Holy Church"[/i].

It's appalling and staggering, at the amount of empirical data, papers, articles, documented and reported cases of the church's sex abuses worldwide, spanning decades, that have directly (and/or indirectly), led to the ruining of millions of lives. So forgive me if I find, the right-wing attacks on SBH readings, just a bunch of sanctimonious BS.

May I suggest, you should be [u]more worried[/u] about your kids going to [b]church[/b] than your kids attending a (albeit prenatally supervised) SBH reading.

The data and the enormous number of sexual abuse cases, perpetrated by the church, suggests and indicates, that parents should be [u]more concerned[/u] about, the men dressed in black white and red robes [b]verses[/b] the men dressed in hot-pink drag.

[u]Fun fact for you (well perhaps not fun):[/u][LIST]Sexual abuse in the Church, worldwide over several decades, are estimated in the millions.[/LIST][LIST]The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Church has skyrocketed over the last three decades and still remains ingrained in the Church ethos, after some 100+ years.[/LIST][LIST]The church and their clergymen/priesthood remain the #1 sexual abusers and offenders of children, worldwide.[/LIST]
[u]In closing:[/u]

Personally, I'd be more worried about my kids suffering harm, from the men in robes reading from "the good book", [b]as opposed to[/b], the men dressed in women's clothing reading at a SBH.

So CrowExplorer, [b]if you truly hate[/b] the [i]"idea of children being indoctrinated"[/i] and [i]"the idea of children being exposed to sexual freaks"[/i], then may I also suggest you take a look in your own backyard (as it were) and direct (most or a majority of) your outrage and concerns more towards, [i][b]the real indoctrination[/b], going on be behind the closed doors[/i] of your local priesthood, diocese, and/or church.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860537]You are keeping it 100 my ISG Brother about the reporting requirements. And I think it is very accurate that you shared. Any one that goes off shore better know what they are doing.

But if you do not exceed 10,000 USD balance in all of your foreign accounts throughout the year you can avoid a lot of the reporting requirements just by staying below the limits. But if you earn income on those accounts then can not avoid them no matter what your balances are. But when it comes to foreign holdings, there is a really big loop hole that you can drive a truck trough. Foreign held real estate in your own name. If you do not hold it in your own name you are going to have to report it on IRS Form 8938.[/QUOTE]Correct Subcommander. The requirement to report on 8938 only applies to financial assets, like bank accounts, brokerage accounts, and loans to your Thai sweetie to buy that special pig farm in Isaan for the two of you to retire to someday. Not referring to you here Subcommander in the last part. That's more for someone like Tooms to consider, as he lives in a place where it's illegal for foreigners to purchase land in their own names. If you loaned money to a trusted friend or set up a corporate entity to hold the land, and the total value of your foreign financial assets is greater than $50,000, then I bet you would have to file the Form 8938 and report the asset, which would be the loan or the corporation.

The corporation would open up a whole new can of worms, the dreaded Form 5471 for controlled foreign corporations. You better have a good accountant and an asset worth enough to justify paying his fees, or you'll eat up the value of what you own in accounting fees in a hurry. Actually reporting the corporation on your Form 8938 is a piece of cake, you just check a box. But the 5471, if you tried to fill it out yourself, would be an exercise in extreme masochism. One way around this would be to use a "check the box" election to treat the corporation as a disregarded entity, if you own the entire corporation, although your Thai sweetie might not go for that. Then you'd have to file a Form 8858, but that's a lot easier to do than the 5471, and the penalties if you screw it up are a lot lower. For either route, Form 5471 or 8858, you're going to need financial statements for the corporation to fill out the forms.

This is an illustration of why I hate the politicians and lawyers who are responsible for our tax code.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2860598]Your pro Repub spin that those Dems "popularized" or "promoted" the idea of minting a magic coin to pay down the massive debts that horrific Repub policies and stewardship produce is like saying people on the ground witnessing the poor souls leaping out of 100 story windows of the World Trade Center because a blazing fireball of airline fuel and shrapnel was at their backs during Bush's 9/11 Attack and commenting that they understood why they lept and would probably have done the same were "popularizing" and "promoting" the idea of leaping out of 100 story windows.

Uh. No. The terrorists who flew those planes into the World Trade Center are the ones who "popularized" and "promoted" that idea.

Same with the Repub economic terrorists who repeatedly threaten to default on their debt re the magic coin idea response.

Without Repubs repeatedly threatening to force the USA to default on the loan debts that horrific Repub economic policies and stewardship cause to be racked up more than any other factor including all the "wild coincidences" you can imagine, no Dem would ever consider Repub spiritual twin Bo Gritz' magic coin idea as a last ditch alternative to something far worse.[/QUOTE]Thanks Tooms! I think this is a first, you agree with me!

Senator Tom Cotton pointed out on Sunday, Kabul didn't collapse on Trump's watch, Russia didn't invade Ukraine, and Hamas didn't launch a historic terror attack on Israel.

Thanks Dirty Joe.

Love Xi.

Goo luck hanging on the ho you gave the farm to. You will never be family in Asia.

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2860805]Goo luck hanging on the ho you gave the farm to. You will never be family in Asia.[/QUOTE]My little teerak LUUVS me. I don't worry for a minute.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860742]Thanks Tooms! I think this is a first, you agree with me![/QUOTE]Well, only if you are agreeing with me that silly, bad, imperfect, inconvenient actions considered by Dems in response to and remedies for spectacularly disastrous problems created by Repubs are 100% on the Repubs who caused those spectacularly disastrous problems and not the Dems.

Is that what you agree with me about, Tiny?

Because if it is, then there is also no reason for you to be further impressed by Repubs not chiming in to agree with a far less damaging Dem response to their spectacularly disastrous Repub behavior, as in your apparent praise of them for their trypical Repub Deadbeat Do Nothing Know Nothingness here:

[QUOTE]Contrary to what you posted, "every Repub and their dog," there aren't ANY Republicans on that list.[/QUOTE]So, just to be sure you really do agree with me that the Magic Trillion Dollar Coin idea as a Dem-considered less damaging response to and potential remedy for the spectacularly disastrous repeated Repub threats to shut down the USA government and / or default on the huge debt and deficits previous Great Repub Disasters required to recover America from them is in every way all on the Repubs who created a need for such a remedy and not on the Dems who consider that remedy, here are a couple more near perfect analogies to that Dem vs Repub issue for you to agree with me about:

When firefighters have to take an ax to doors and property set ablaze by arsonists in order to possibly control the fire and salvage some of the threatened life and property, it is not a case of firefighters "popularizing" and "promoting" the idea of taking axes to doors and property but fully and completely on the arsonists for triggering such a response, right?

And there is nothing to praise the arsonists who set the property ablaze for simply because there weren't "ANY" arsonists chiming their support or standing there and handing an ax to the firefighters to help them respond to and deal with their act of arson, right?

And if Navy SEALs swoop into a compound to rescue 100 hostages taken by terrorists and in doing so they shoot and kill one of the terrorist guards, the guard's wife he was hiding behind while shooting back and even wind up inadvertently getting one of the hostages killed in the process after successfully rescuing the other 99, you wouldn't dare to suggest the Navy SEAL rescuers were the ones "popularizing" and "promoting" the idea of shooting and killing guards, guards wives and hostages and instead you would fully and completely put the blame for all of it on the terrorist hostage-takers, right?

Furthermore, you would never ever praise the terrorist hostage-takers simply because not "ANY" of them bothered to chime in or lend a hand of support for the Navy SEAL rescue operation, right?

I'm just checking to make sure we really are in total agreement about this Magic Coin idea regarding Dem vs Repub responsibility for that Magic Coin Idea so I can modulate my celebration of it accordingly. LOL.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860816]My little teerak LUUVS me. I don't worry for a minute.[/QUOTE]That is right [B]Tiny12[/B]. Real men know how to handle their business. You are a fellow man in the arena. And we know the critics do not count.

I happen to know an ex-pat from USA that has a wife, child and built a country complex near where his wife is from. Does not care that is in here name. Chump change to him. Some of us have it. Some of us don't. My farm plans are to raise buffalo. The kind you eat, not the ones that post on ISG. We have enough of them already. 555.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2860770]Senator Tom Cotton pointed out on Sunday, Kabul didn't collapse on Trump's watch, Russia didn't invade Ukraine, and Hamas didn't launch a historic terror attack on Israel.

Thanks Dirty Joe.

Love Xi.[/QUOTE]Did he mention that Joe Biden is not the president of any of those countries, that America was actively at war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so-called presidency and that more Americans were killed in that foreign conflict on Trump's watch than have been killed in any foreign conflict on Biden's watch?

Yep. Thanks, Joe.

[b]NOTE:[/b] Feel free to skip to ACT 3, for those whom are not concerned with the debate minutia that has taken place w/r to FINDING the progenitor/creator of the trillion dollar coin idea.

[U]ACT 1:[/U]

[b]Firstly,[/b] it was [b]YOU[/b] (Tiny 12) on several occasions, that gleefully went about proclaiming the Democrats were the progenitor/creator of trillion dollar coin idea.

For the record, all your proclamations about the progenitor/creator were INCORRECT and FALSE! I never even broached the creation of the coin idea, [b]until you open your mouth and proclaimed,[/b] it was the Democrats!

Turns out, I was perfectly CORRECT, in thinking that the idea for the coin was a "dreamt up idea" or a "minted idea", in heads of REPUBLICANS, when I asked why Republicans think the coin idea, would solve the debt crisis? But read on, as the facts, evidence and findings will prove, the creation of he coin has Republican foot prints all over it. And I also address some of your non-factual claims.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860542]Spidy, It's pretty obvious what you meant. See the bold text below. You meant every Republican and his dog wants to mint a trillion dollar coin to pay down the debt.[/QUOTE] Read it again! I hear the 3rd time, is the charm.

Yes, it's so obvious, to anyone reading it, I simply asked a question. Unlike yourself, I did NOT make unfounded statements about the origins to the trillion dollar coin idea, in a ridiculous attempt to find, your smoking gun and/or your [b]"Democrat Patsy"[/b] (as it were).

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860542]So we've established that the following famous people promoted the idea of a trillion dollar coin, for the purpose of paying down the national debt or, in the case of Tlaib, two coins to pay $1,000 a month to most Americans:

Paul Krugman: Renowned Democrat economist.
Lawrence Tribe: Renowned Democrat attorney.
James Galbraith: Well known Democrat economist, where I live anyway.
Jerry Nadler: Famous Democratic Congressman.
Rashida Tlaib: Famous Democratic Congresswoman.[/QUOTE]No, Tiny 12, the cases you state, are mostly cases in response to questions asked (an answered) for reporters, with regards to [b]Repub led debt ceiling hostage negotiations.[/b] None of them address the who is the real progenitor/creator of the coin idea. But not to worry, I'll fill you in as we go through ACTS 1 to 3.

But it didn't stop you from initially proclaiming Mr. Krugman as the progenitor/creator of the coin idea.

Here, first asserting Krugman:
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859788]Well Spidy, if you're a Democrat, that's one you need to explain. It was Democrat Economist's [u]Paul Krugman's idea.[/u] ... [/QUOTE]

And Here:
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859870] ... Krugman resuscitated his idea in 2021, when Republicans were filibustering an increase in the debt limit. Jerry Nadler, Democratic Congressman, has been a big fan of the idea since Krugman introduced it. ... I hate to be the one to break it to you, but [b]Democratic Party partisans and politicians own this idea, lock, stock and barrel.[/b][/QUOTE]

Naturally, all [b]FALSE[/b] and [b]INCORRECT![/b] Since evidence had come to light that the coin idea, existed a few decades before Krugman answered questions about the coin idea, to reporters in Oct 2021.

So after realizing Krugman, wasn't going to fit the bill as your "Democrat patsy", you hastily trolled around (I imagined) for your next victim. Where you stumbled upon Beowulf aka.Carlos Mucha, a Atlanta, GA, lawyer.

And here, you proclaimed Beowulf, progenitor/creator here:
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859870]Spidy, Actually [b]the idea originally came from[/b] some guy posting on the internet who went by the name [b]Beowulf[/b], and his buddies....[/QUOTE]

Even though, EihTooms, provided you evidence, which clearly placed, the right-wing conservative 1992 ex-presidential candidate Bo Gritz ([URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL]), as the 1st known progenitor/creator of the coin idea, you denied (gaslighted) the irrefutable evidence in front of you.

Here:
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859870]I doubt [b]Beowulf[/b] and his band of brothers had [b]ever heard of Bo Gritz.[/b] ... to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.[/QUOTE]

Tiny 12, Not only was your prejudice for Democrats, blinding you to the truth/facts, your thirst and quest for the need to find a "Democrat patsy", may have impaired your judgement.

From here, your denial just got worse and may have lead to, at best some sloppy investigate work, at worse it was incorrect and misleading information.


[b]End of ACT 1 of 3[/b]

[U]ACT 2:[/U]

[b]Secondly,[/b] so after denying the real deal (in Bo Gritz) and a couple attempts at proclaiming you'd found the "patsy", as the "original" progenitor/creator of the coin idea, you final settled on Beowulf aka.Carlos Mucha, as your "patsy". Now I'm sure you said to yourself, "...the only thing left to do, is to declare him, a Democrat. But how?"

Enter stage left, a Twitter link/feed, by a Carlos Mucha, which was meant to make us think what exactly? Make us think he is a Democrat...maybe?

Here:
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860313]Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, is a [u]Democrat[/u]. He's more partisan than you are...

[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL][/QUOTE]

Tiny 12, was the link your idea of showing us, he's a Democrat? If so, please show me where in that link/feed? If this tweeter is the real deal, Carlos Mucha, his tweets sound more Republican than Democrat to me. So if this was meant as conclusive evidence us, that he's your "Democrat Patsy", then you'll have to do better and provide irrefutable evidence.

Even with such weak evidence, the urge to fulfill the quest, was so great, you proclaimed him your "Democrat Pasty" anyway. I get it! In the face of EihTooms' irrefutable evidence of the [b]real[/b] progenitor of the coin idea, a right-wing conservative (aka.Repub), was just too much to take. Naturally, it didn't sit well with you, thus needed to put forth a counter-punch and push-back w/r to EihTooms' post.

Hence a sly and wildly hastened crowning of Beowulf as your "patsy", as a Democrat, with not much to back it up, but a suspect tweeter feed and some speculation, you declared you'd found your "Democrat".

[b]Now what comes next[/b] (from Tiny 12), [u]is truly bizarre![/u]

Beowulf goes from being "crowned" as The Democrat King of the coin idea, to being relegated to a [b]"nobody"[/b]. Why is he and Bo Gritz, suddenly declared as nobodies (...I ask myself)? More classic gaslighting?

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860542]And two [u]nobodies[/u]:

Bo Gritz, Populist candidate for president who received 0.14% of the popular vote.
Carlos Mucha, aka Beowulf, Democrat Attorney. [/QUOTE]

What's this now? Bo Gritz and Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf are [b]suddenly[/b], cast as nobodies? (...kkkk!) That's hilarious!!!

How is it now your flip-flopping and gaslighting the material relevance of own findings w/r to Beowulf? Someone you'd just finished proclaiming as the "Democrat King" of the coin idea. Very peculiar indeed!

Since I sensed a bit of [i]"desperation"[/i] in your post, I wasn't about to wait around for the BS answer and decided, I'd best get to digging as to why the flip-flop on Beowulf.

No doubt, most of you can imagine what I found next. (...kkkk!)


[b]End of ACT 2 of 3[/b]

[U]ACT 3:[/U]

[b]Thirdly,[/b] (for those of you still reading) what if I were to tell you, Tiny 12's [i]"Democrat patsy"[/i], [b]is indeed a REPUBLICAN![/b] Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, the Altanta Lawyer [b]is a REPUBLICAN![/b].

Here, undeniable/irrefutable evidence, he's as [b] REPUBLICAN[/b], as pimple on Mitch's ass:
[QUOTE=Intelligencer]I know hes not as progressive as the MMT economists, Grey said. [b]Carlos [Mucha] is a [u]Republican[/u] lawyer from Georgia who voted for Ron Paul[/b]. And I like him, were friends.

[URL] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/the-man-who-invented-the-trillion-dollar-coin.html [/URL]

---In the article, [u]his good friend, rats him out.[/u] Not to mention the dude, voted for Ron Paul, which is about as "Republican" as it gets....kkkk! [/QUOTE]

Gaslighting, may NOT be your thing, Tiny 12? You obviously didn't read this Intelligencer article I posted earlier, as it would have saved you from "foot-in-mouth". But here we are!

The Intelligencer, clearly identifies Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, [b]as a REPUBLICAN.[/b] You, yourself proclaim him as the progenitor/creator of the coin idea (ONLY because you thought he was a Democrat).

So thanks to your [i]"two nobodies"[/i] post, I began looking at the creator of the coin idea, not as singular creator, but rather as [b]creators[/b] of the coin idea.

Now that we have established, Beowulf is Republican and a progenitor/creator of the coin idea, I designated him as exhibit ([b]1b[/b]), as one part of the two (2) headed monster (as it were).

Again, thanks to EihTooms and another Tiny 12 post, from which I took evidence from both their Wikipedia links (both below), to again show and create exhibit (1a) and corresponding correlation to exhibit (1b).

It bears repeating again. EihTooms, was spot on when he said:
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859959]Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.

[b]Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman [u]came up with the idea.[/u][/b]

It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz[/URL][/QUOTE]

EihTooms, correctly identified Mr. Bo Gritz, as the earliest known progenitor/creator of the coin idea. I designated him as exhibit ([b]1a[/b]).

Here exhibit (1a) and (1b) are linked to coin idea/concept, using Tiny 12's very own Wiki link from one of his early posts:
[QUOTE=Wikipedia][b]Emergence of the Concept:[/b] The idea for the Treasury Department to mint a coin and send it to the Federal Reserve to pay off the debt was first popularized by Populist Party [conservative right-wing] presidential candidate [u]Bo Gritz in 1992[/u]. As a standard part of his stump speeches, [u]he would hold up a five-inch example coin[/u]. The specific concept was first introduced by [u]Carlos Mucha[/u], a lawyer who commented under the name "beowulf" on various blogs. ...

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin [/URL] ... [/QUOTE]

Wikipedia skillfully links, the connection between Bo Gritz, first introducing the concept when he held up [b]"a five-inch example"[/b] of the coin, to the [b]"specific concept"[/b] of the idea that was introduced by Carlos Mucha. The two men are inextricably linked and connected to the creation of the coin idea/concept.

If I recall, you said, [i]"...I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know [u]I think it's a nutty idea[/u]...to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat."[/i]. Well, it's funny how, when actually meaningful FACTS are presented, it just amazing whom [b]really[/b] sounds "nutty".

[u]Conclusions:[/u]

From ACTs 1 thru 3, the evidence provided, incontrovertibly shows, Bo Gritz and Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, are inextricably linked as the progenitors/creators of the coin idea.

Mr. Gritz and Mr. Mucha, are linked as [i]"closet"[/i] Republican (exhibit 1a) and Republican (exhibit 1b), respectively. They are very much at the genesis/center of the trillion dollar coin idea, despite, your attempt to gaslight them, by implying [b]they were "nobodies"[/b], only emboldened me to dig further, for the truth and real FACTS. Tiny 12, I think, when you gaslight your own findings, w/r these so called "nobodies", was an obvious dead-give-away. Thanks!

So take your pick, Tiny 12...Republican 1a or 1b (or both as I have done), makes no difference, as all roads (ie. FACTS/truths), [b]lead to REPUBLICANS[/b], as the creators of the coin idea!

Most assuredly, I can now proclaim (for the very first time), the progenitor(s)/creator(s) of the trillion dollar coin idea[b] is/are indeed REPUBLICAN(S)[/b] (or if you prefer, conservative right wingers).


[b]End of ACT 3 of 3[/b]

PS: I could have gone for the short version, but this was wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more fun, uncovering yet another REPUBLICAN at the center of "nutty", but not yet dismissed idea!

[QUOTE=Spidy;2860902][U]ACT 3:[/U]

[b]Thirdly,[/b] (for those of you still reading) what if I were to tell you, Tiny 12's [i]"Democrat patsy"[/i], [b]is indeed a REPUBLICAN![/b] Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, the Altanta Lawyer [b]is a REPUBLICAN![/b].

Here, undeniable/irrefutable evidence, he's as [b] REPUBLICAN[/b], as pimple on Mitch's ass:


Gaslighting, may NOT be your thing, Tiny 12? You obviously didn't read this Intelligencer article I posted earlier, as it would have saved you from "foot-in-mouth". But here we are!

The Intelligencer, clearly identifies Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, [b]as a REPUBLICAN.[/b] You, yourself proclaim him as the progenitor/creator of the coin idea (ONLY because you thought he was a Democrat).

So thanks to your [i]"two nobodies"[/i] post, I began looking at the creator of the coin idea, not as singular creator, but rather as [b]creators[/b] of the coin idea.

Now that we have established, Beowulf is Republican and a progenitor/creator of the coin idea, I designated him as exhibit ([b]1b[/b]), as one part of the two (2) headed monster (as it were).

Again, thanks to EihTooms and another Tiny 12 post, from which I took evidence from both their Wikipedia links (both below), to again show and create exhibit (1a) and corresponding correlation to exhibit (1b).

It bears repeating again. EihTooms, was spot on when he said:


EihTooms, correctly identified Mr. Bo Gritz, as the earliest known progenitor/creator of the coin idea. I designated him as exhibit ([b]1a[/b]).

Here exhibit (1a) and (1b) are linked to coin idea/concept, using Tiny 12's very own Wiki link from one of his early posts:


Wikipedia skillfully links, the connection between Bo Gritz, first introducing the concept when he held up [b]"a five-inch example"[/b] of the coin, to the [b]"specific concept"[/b] of the idea that was introduced by Carlos Mucha. The two men are inextricably linked and connected to the creation of the coin idea/concept.

If I recall, you said, [i]"...I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know [u]I think it's a nutty idea[/u]...to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat."[/i]. Well, it's funny how, when actually meaningful FACTS are presented, it just amazing whom [b]really[/b] sounds "nutty".

[u]Conclusions:[/u]

From ACTs 1 thru 3, the evidence provided, incontrovertibly shows, Bo Gritz and Carlos Mucha aka.Beowulf, are inextricably linked as the progenitors/creators of the coin idea.

Mr. Gritz and Mr. Mucha, are linked as [i]"closet"[/i] Republican (exhibit 1a) and Republican (exhibit 1b), respectively. They are very much at the genesis/center of the trillion dollar coin idea, despite, your attempt to gaslight them, by implying [b]they were "nobodies"[/b], only emboldened me to dig further, for the truth and real FACTS. Well you were very wrong about these so called "nobodies"!

So take your pick, Tiny 12...Republican 1a or 1b (or both as I have done), makes no difference, as all roads (ie. FACTS/truths), [b]lead to REPUBLICANS[/b], as the creators of the coin idea!

Most assuredly, I can now proclaim (for the very first time), the progenitor(s)/creator(s) of the trillion dollar coin idea[b] is/are indeed REPUBLICAN(S)[/b] (or if you prefer,conservative right wingers).


[b]End of ACT 3 of 3[/b]

PS: I could have gone for the short version, but this was wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more fun, uncovering yet another REPUBLICAN at the center of "nutty", but not yet dismissed idea![/QUOTE]At least Republican lawyer Beowolf was willing to consider a silly but relatively benign response and remedy to his Repub Party's repeated spectacularly disastrous threats to default on the massive debts and deficits that their repeatedly spectacularly disastrous policies and stewardship has wrought over the decades.

Which suggests at least a trace of "Dem" in him somewhere. Traditionally, Repubs oppose ANY response or remedy for their horrific policy and stewardship ideas and results unless it is certain to produce far worse results than the ones they created.

So it is refreshing to discover one (1) Repub who found in him the courage to consider a remedy that is merely silly and benign compared to the colossal damage his Repub Party had hoped to inflict on the country and the rest of the planet with their repeated threats.

Hi Spidy, I'm not gaslighting you. I'm deprogramming you. Either your memory failed you in your original post on the "trillion dollar" coin, or you're living in some kind of Orwellian world where night is day and yes means no. I'm almost sure it's the former, but figure a little deprogramming never hurt no one, so why not just in case.

Here's Carlos Mucha's twitter thread, which I posted earlier to show why I believe he's a Democrat.

[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL]

He suggested Democrats scour Georgia for eligible but not registered voters before the Senate runoffs; believed Proposition 13 in California was a bad idea; believed illegal immigrant children separated from their parents deserve a break; heartily approved of a Lincoln Project commercial to [B]"push every button in Trump's abnormal brain";[/B]wanted Speaker Pelosi to require House members to wear masks; is on Ukraine's side in the war; believed Biden should push a plan to encourage younger people to vote; praises government for GPS, Medicare, the FDIC, and providing electricity and criticizes those who associate that with socialism;[b] favors measures to prevent climate change; favored "AmeriCare", which would be akin to Medicare for All;[/b] praised a Capitol policeman who protected Congressmen on January 6; favored body cams for "every interaction" with the public; [B]was a fan of Modern Monetary Theory[/B]; favored fair treatment of Palestinians in the workplace; believed in N-95, KN-95 and KF-94 masks;[b] believed that it's shocking that no one credits socialism for the great success of GPS which he believes is a great example of government working efficiently and competently; couldn't believe people are trying to put Trump back in the White House; said [b]"it's crazy that a 3% wealth tax on billionaires is politically unthinkable yet there's already a 100% estate tax on the poor and nobody cares"[/b] ;and said [b]"McConnell has learned through years of experience that neither he nor the GOP Senate Caucus will ever pay a political price for obstructing a Democratic President & then blaming them for not getting anything done".[/b]

Like my daddy said, "if it looks like a Democrat, and it walks like a Democrat, and it quacks like a Democrat, well then, it's a Democrat. " I actually agree with some of those tweets. But you'd be hard pressed to label the man as a Republican when you look at the totality of what he's said. Maybe he was a Libertarian who voted for Ron Paul. There are left leaning Libertarians. Tooms is a Democrat who I believe voted for Ronald Reagan.

And in any event you and Tooms are using trivia about the "progenitor" to mask your original claim that somehow it's Republicans who were foolishly using the platinum trillion dollar coin to bypass Republican opposition to the increasing the debt ceiling. That just doesn't make much sense. And I wouldn't care whether the statement that he's a republican came from someone quoted in the left-biased New York Magazine's Intelligencer or the right-biased New York Post. Mucha's political beliefs aren't consistent with a Republican's. Tooms admits as much in his last post.

"I wanted to circle-back to your opening line and add some additional thoughts, to my previous post, as a separate, but inclusive response / post:

You Said:

First, I'm sure many of us, mongers on this ISG forum, at one time or another, have been called "sexual freaks" (naturally from the women and girls we've seen and been with over the years). And I'm sure we all, still consider ourselves to be "good people"around kids. So is that really a good metric or criteria you want to "hang your hat on" when it comes to hanging around children?

Secondly, while I acknowledge that your entitled to feel the way you do, I think your outrage, hate or dislike towards StoryBook Hour (SBH) readings, is misplaced, unfounded and simply I feel, is just overblown right-wing media hype and propaganda.

If the parents of the kids see fit to take their kids to a SBH reading hour, who are you to say otherwise? Conversely, while I may find parents who take their kids to a "Nazi" style book-ban / book-burning event / protest, very distasteful, disgusting, immoral, unethical, stupid and pathetic, (and / or the left) will still defend their right to do so.

Thirdly, when you consider the millions of sexual abuse cases, against a trusted and venerated institution, that the right hold very dear to their identity, you begin to understand behind the right-wing's hate for SBH reading hour.

It's appalling and staggering, at the amount of empirical data, papers, articles, documented and reported cases of the church's sex abuses worldwide, spanning decades, that have directly (and / or indirectly), led to the ruining of millions of lives. So forgive me if I find, the right-wing attacks on SBH readings, just a bunch of sanctimonious BS.

May I suggest, you should be than your kids attending a (albeit prenatally supervised) SBH reading. ".

And by the way, the New York magazine article says Mucha wouldn't confirm or discuss his political affiliation. You cut off your quote just before that part. Furthermore Rohan Grey, who said Mucha was a Republican who voted for Ron Paul, is a progressive advocate of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). He would possibly think you and Tooms are Republicans. At least you two think MMT is just as nutty as I do, or you wouldn't be criticizing the trillion dollar platinum coin. Finally what's the title of the article? "The Man Who Invented the Trillion Dollar Coin. " The man is Carlos Mucha, not Bo what's his name.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2860841]That is right [B]Tiny12[/B]. Real men know how to handle their business. You are a fellow man in the arena. And we know the critics do not count.

I happen to know an ex-pat from USA that has a wife, child and built a country complex near where his wife is from. Does not care that is in here name. Chump change to him. Some of us have it. Some of us don't. My farm plans are to raise buffalo. The kind you eat, not the ones that post on ISG. We have enough of them already. 555.[/QUOTE]Best of luck Commander. Buffalo is tasty, and healthier than beef.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2861006]Hi Spidy, I'm not gaslighting you. I'm deprogramming you. Either your memory failed you in your original post on the "trillion dollar" coin, or you're living in some kind of Orwellian world where night is day and yes means no. I'm almost sure it's the former, but figure a little deprogramming never hurt no one, so why not just in case.

Here's Carlos Mucha's twitter thread, which I posted earlier to show why I believe he's a Democrat.

[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL]

He suggested Democrats scour Georgia for eligible but not registered voters before the Senate runoffs; believed Proposition 13 in California was a bad idea; believed illegal immigrant children separated from their parents deserve a break; heartily approved of a Lincoln Project commercial to
"push every button in Trump's abnormal brain";wanted Speaker Pelosi to require House members to wear masks; is on Ukraine's side in the war; believed Biden should push a plan to encourage younger people to vote; praises government for GPS, Medicare, the FDIC, and providing electricity and criticizes those who associate that with socialism; favors measures to prevent climate change; favored "AmeriCare", which would be akin to Medicare for All; praised a Capitol policeman who protected Congressmen on January 6; favored body cams for "every interaction" with the public; was a fan of Modern Monetary Theoryfavored fair treatment of Palestinians in the workplace; believed in N-95, KN-95 and KF-94 masks believed that it's shocking that no one credits socialism for the great success of GPS which he believes is a great example of government working efficiently and competently; couldn't believe people are trying to put Trump back in the White House; said "it's crazy that a 3% wealth tax on billionaires is politically unthinkable yet there's already a 100% estate tax on the poor and nobody cares" and said "McConnell has learned through years of experience that neither he nor the GOP Senate Caucus will ever pay a political price for obstructing a Democratic President & then blaming them for not getting anything done".

Like my daddy said, "if it looks like a Democrat, and it walks like a Democrat, and it quacks like a Democrat, well then, it's a Democrat. " I actually agree with some of those tweets. But you'd be hard pressed to label the man as a Republican when you look at the totality of what he's said. Maybe he was a Libertarian who voted for Ron Paul. There are left leaning Libertarians. Tooms is a Democrat who I believe voted for Ronald Reagan.

And in any event you and Tooms are using trivia about the "progenitor" to mask your original claim that somehow it's Republicans who were foolishly using the platinum trillion dollar coin to bypass Republican opposition to the increasing the debt ceiling. That just doesn't make much sense. And I wouldn't care whether the statement that he's a republican came from someone quoted in the left-biased New York Magazine's Intelligencer or the right-biased New York Post. Mucha's political beliefs aren't consistent with a Republican's. Tooms admits as much in his last post.[/QUOTE]If there is any evidence whatsoever that today Beowolf / Carlos Mucha is a "Bothsider / Neithersider" or has since 2000 endorsed or promoted a Third Party candidate then he is essentially a Repub supporter and voter regardless what his registered Party affiliation turns out to be.

The same as Bill Maher. And you.

Finally, amid the pissing contests and dead horses being flogged here a subject dear to my heart is mentioned. The noble beasts, the American and European woods bison, which are growing in numbers. I buy bison meat. 10% fat and tasty indeed. My mate buys lotto tickets in Uk. Myself in USA. The proceeds from the jackpot will fund bison & other wildlife habitat and our hobby finding working girls for hire. Each of my long time concubines will benefit greatly for years of reliable service and possible friendship, in my mind, at least.

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2861041]Finally, amid the pissing contests and dead horses being flogged here....[/QUOTE]Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgNzTN-STA[/URL]

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2861041]Finally, amid the pissing contests and dead horses being flogged here a subject dear to my heart is mentioned. The noble beasts, the American and European woods bison, which are growing in numbers. I buy bison meat. 10% fat and tasty indeed. My mate buys lotto tickets in Uk. Myself in USA. The proceeds from the jackpot will fund bison & other wildlife habitat and our hobby finding working girls for hire. Each of my long time concubines will benefit greatly for years of reliable service and possible friendship, in my mind, at least.[/QUOTE]That is what I am talking about. While in the USA I never bought bison meat. But when it was on the menu of a restaurant I was dining at I always ordered. Very tasty indeed. And the availability is way too rare for my tastes.

Since I have been in Thailand I have had the opportunity to eat Australian imported beef. Far superior to the beef produced in the USA (my personal tastes). And I always order it here when given the opportunity. I hope you pick the right numbers and are able to live an entirely new level of your best life possible. Keep hope alive!

"Did he mention that Joe Biden is not the president of any of those countries, that America was actively at war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so-called presidency and that more Americans were killed in that foreign conflict on Trump's watch than have been killed in any foreign conflict on Biden's watch?

Yep. Thanks, Joe."

Weakness attracts aggression.

Thank Dirty Joe.

He's way too busy shuffling all his stolen loot, and directing the DOJ to protect the junkie.

Hopefully Jordan gets the gavel and impeaches the "Dirty shit stain" already!

"Did he mention that Joe Biden is not the president of any of those countries, that America was actively at war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so-called presidency and that more Americans were killed in that foreign conflict on Trump's watch than have been killed in any foreign conflict on Biden's watch?

Yep. Thanks, Joe. "

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/survey-trump-biden/2023/10/18/id/1138831/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2861209]"Did he mention that Joe Biden is not the president of any of those countries, that America was actively at war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so-called presidency and that more Americans were killed in that foreign conflict on Trump's watch than have been killed in any foreign conflict on Biden's watch?

Yep. Thanks, Joe."

Weakness attracts aggression.

Thank Dirty Joe.

He's way too busy shuffling all his stolen loot, and directing the DOJ to protect the junkie.

Hopefully Jordan gets the gavel and impeaches the "Dirty shit stain" already![/QUOTE]BTW, in addition to America being actively engaged in a ground war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so called presidency even after he weakly surrendered 100% to every Taliban demand and timetable, did that idiot Repub Senator also mention that the seat of democracy was invaded by a violent, cop-attacking, cop-killing and murderous mob of anti-America, America-hating Terrorists right in the USA on January 6, 2021?

Now, I know your beloved Repubs have forever been afflicted with a peculiar form of selective amnesia, but as I recall your "strong" lord and savior was so-called potus on January 6, 2021 and not Joe Biden, right?

Please remind us what "strength" Trump projected and demonstrated to prevent America from being attacked by a violent mob of anti-America, America-hating terrorists right on American soil, in fact the soil on which the seat of American democracy resides, in order to overturn a free and fair election and overthrow American democracy?

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2861291]"Did he mention that Joe Biden is not the president of any of those countries, that America was actively at war on foreign soil for every minute of every hour of Trump's so-called presidency and that more Americans were killed in that foreign conflict on Trump's watch than have been killed in any foreign conflict on Biden's watch?

Yep. Thanks, Joe. "

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/survey-trump-biden/2023/10/18/id/1138831/[/URL][/QUOTE]As of this writing, even the demonstrably Winger-leaning RCP Consensus of Polls shows the trend heading in the opposite direction of a couple of recent outlier polls, that CNBC poll being one of them. See the screenshot below. Trump's statistically tied momentary lead over Biden has evaporated to an actual tie:

[URL]https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/us/general-election-trump-vs-biden-7383.html[/URL]

Also, you're so happy that somebody's money is paying for your access to NYT articles, but I don't recall you posting a link to this one 2-3 weeks ago:

[B]Americans Are Down on Biden. Why Does His Party Keep Winning Elections?
Despite a flood of negative polls for Democrats, the party has delivered a string of strong results in special elections, which can be a useful gauge of the national political environment.[/B]

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/26/us/politics/democrats-special-elections-biden.html[/URL]

Sept. 26,2023.

[QUOTE]For nearly two years, poll after poll has found Americans in a sour mood about President Biden, uneasy about the economy and eager for younger leaders of the country.

And yet when voters have actually cast ballots, Democrats have delivered strong results in special elections the sort of contests that attract little attention but can serve as a useful gauge for voter enthusiasm.

In special elections this year for state legislative offices, Democrats have exceeded Mr. Bidens performance in the 2020 presidential election in 21 of 27 races, topping his showing by an average of seven percentage points, according to a study conducted by the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, the partys campaign arm for state legislative races.

Those results, combined with an 11-point triumph for a liberal State Supreme Court candidate in Wisconsin this spring and a 14-point defeat of an Ohio ballot referendum this summer in a contest widely viewed as a proxy battle over abortion rights, run counter to months of public opinion polling that has found Mr. Biden to be deeply unpopular heading into his re-election bid next year.

Taken together, these results suggest that the favorable political environment for Democrats since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade has endured through much of 2023. Democratic officials have said since the summer of 2022, when the ruling came down, that abortion is both a powerful motivator for the partys voters and the topic most likely to persuade moderate Republicans to vote for Democratic candidates.[/QUOTE]Now, this begs the questions, why are Dem respondents to these polls like that CNBC poll so "down" on Biden, yet at crunch time in the Midterms and so many special elections since will come out in huge numbers to vote for his Party candidates, defying what they say in the polls and apparently not really blaming him or his Party for the fact that a subway token no longer costs a nickle and, most important, how does their polling sentiment pertain to what they will actually do when faced with a Trump vs Biden ballot in 2024.

As a lifelong since age 18 registered Democrat, I feel fairly confident to hazard an informed opinion on that. But I am just curious to know if you or anyone else here has an explanation for that phenomenon.

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/jewish-yellen-says-us-can-easily-afford-two-jewish-wars/[/URL]

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/putin-counteroffensive-has-totally-failed/[/URL]

Didn't Nutty Nancy and the house Dems help torpedo McCarthy LMAOOOOOO.

Maybe they should all vote for Jordan Thursday LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2861006] ... And in any event you and Tooms are using trivia about the "progenitor" to mask your original claim that somehow it's Republicans who were foolishly using the platinum trillion dollar coin to bypass Republican opposition to the increasing the debt ceiling. That just doesn't make much sense. And I wouldn't care whether the statement that he's a republican came from someone quoted in the left-biased New York Magazine's Intelligencer or the right-biased New York Post. Mucha's political beliefs aren't consistent with a Republican's. Tooms admits as much in his last post. ... [/QUOTE]

Perhaps then, you should [u]STOP[/u] providing [u]the AMMUNITION[/u], with which to use to "shoot down" your baseless claims. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot! As you just keep providing links/sources that disprove your claims.

It true what they say, [b][i]"Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself"[/i][/b] (as it were).

Tiny 12, I'm starting to doubt if you even read your own links and sources for information. This time it's your "Meet the Genius Behind ..." article found at WIRED.

You know, it is either you're just very lazy, don't read (and don't care about) your own links/sources, or you knew Beowulf was REPUBLICAN, having read the article, [b]"Meet the Genius Behind ..."[/b] and then knowingly still chose to post, the fraudulent, fake and phony malodorous misinformation and a lie about Beowulf being a Democrat, just to suit your narrative, in a quest for your "Democrat patsy". Which is it?

Once again Tiny 12, provides "the link", [b]to hang himself[/b] (as it were), back on October 13th, 2023, as part of his quest of find his "Democrat patsy":
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959] ... I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.

[URL]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trillion-dollar-coin-inventor/ [/URL][/QUOTE]

Here is the section of that WIRED article, that CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY states Beowulf, is a REPUBLICAN voting again, for a REPUBLICAN:
[QUOTE=Wired][b]Meet the Genius Behind the Trillion-Dollar Coin and the Plot to Breach the Debt Ceiling.[/b]

"Interestingly, although the coin has been embraced by liberals as a useful political hack and rejected by Republicans as absurd and dangerous, [u]the man who came up with it [b]voted for Mitt Romney.[/b][/u] Beowulf says he would have advised the [u]2012 Republican presidential candidate[/u] to use the same trick had he been elected president."

[URL]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trillion-dollar-coin-inventor/[/URL][/QUOTE]

[b]Exhibit 1b:[/b] Beowulf aka.Carlos Mucha, Atlanta, Lawyer, who [b]is as REPUBLICAN[/b], as two (2) pimples on Mitch's ass (or should I say Mitt's ass).

Once again, undeniable and irrefutable evidence, delivered to you on a ("WIRED") silver platter, by Tiny 12, himself. (Note: Wait for it...the denial from Tiny 12, to declare WIRED, a source/link he provided, as some "left-biased" magazine....kkkk!)

It's important to note, that both sources (the New York Magazine Intelligencer and Wired--provided by Tiny 12), that [b]indict Beowulf as a REPUBLICAN[/b], are both widely seen as [u]reputable publications[/u] of journalism. Compare that with wild speculation, conjecture, guess-work and a "leap of logic" from idol chit-chat on Twitter feed.
[LIST] Riddle me this Tiny 12: [i][b]Riddle:[/b] "The more you take away, the BIGGER I get...What am I?" [/i]

[b]Answer:[/b] That would be the big [b]"HOLE"[/b], in your bullshit notion and FACTS, that a REPUBLICAN isn't the progenitor/creator of the coin idea.[/LIST]
Perhaps you should STOP digging! Or at the very least don't bring your own shovel, to dig your own grave!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2861014] The church doesn't rape and sodomize young boys GAY MEN do [/QUOTE]Please explain?

And if it's not too much to ask, please provide evidence to support your claims / hypothesis.

Thanks!

P.S.: Yes a robust explanation (preferably in your own words and coherent sentences, if possible) would be extremely helpful. And yes, supporting links are also welcomed.

Darn it Desade.

I was starting to like you after your previous post. Now you are defending the Catholic Church cult that hides and protect its male employees that prey on children. Many of these male employees may be gay or straight, but the issue is sexual exploitation of those they have tasked with mentoring and nurturing. That church cult has caused untold misery worldwide, as have most other religious cults. You have evidence that all or most gay men are pedophiles?

Now the guns make the bullets go real fast. And it is the speed behind of the mass of the bullet that really causes the damage when it hits you. The only good gun control that I believe in is the ability to make those bullets go exactly where you want them to go.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614]Now that was funny, but so true! And I do so enjoy a good "Fairy Tale". If (when) it fails, perhaps we can use it as a "Cautionary Tale/Fable"?

Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?

I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.

Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Spidy;2861336]Perhaps then, you should [u]STOP[/u] providing [u]the AMMUNITION[/u], with which to use to "shoot down" your baseless claims. You just keep shooting yourself in the foot! As you just keep providing links/sources that disprove your claims.

It true what they say, [b][i]"Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself"[/i][/b] (as it were).

Tiny 12, I'm starting to doubt if you even read your own links and sources for information. This time it's your "Meet the Genius Behind ..." article found at WIRED.

You know, it is either you're just very lazy, don't read (and don't care about) your own links/sources, or you knew Beowulf was REPUBLICAN, having read the article, [b]"Meet the Genius Behind ..."[/b] and then knowingly still chose to post, the fraudulent, fake and phony malodorous misinformation and a lie about Beowulf being a Democrat, just to suit your narrative, in a quest for your "Democrat patsy". Which is it?

Once again Tiny 12, provides "the link", [b]to hang himself[/b] (as it were), back on October 13th, 2023, as part of his quest of find his "Democrat patsy":


Here is the section of that WIRED article, that CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY states Beowulf, is a REPUBLICAN voting again, for a REPUBLICAN:


[b]Exhibit 1b:[/b] Beowulf aka.Carlos Mucha, Atlanta, Lawyer, who [b]is as REPUBLICAN[/b], as two (2) pimples on Mitch's ass (or should I say Mitt's ass).

Once again, undeniable and irrefutable evidence, delivered to you on a ("WIRED") silver platter, by Tiny 12, himself. (Note: Wait for it...the denial from Tiny 12, to declare WIRED, a source/link he provided, as some "left-biased" magazine....kkkk!)

It's important to note, that both sources (the New York Magazine Intelligencer and Wired--provided by Tiny 12), that [b]indict Beowulf as a REPUBLICAN[/b], are both widely seen as [u]reputable publications[/u] of journalism. Compare that with wild speculation, conjecture, guess-work and a "leap of logic" from idol chit-chat on Twitter feed.
[LIST] Riddle me this Tiny 12: [i][b]Riddle:[/b] "The more you take away, the BIGGER I get...What am I?" [/i]

[b]Answer:[/b] That would be the big [b]"HOLE"[/b], in your bullshit notion and FACTS, that a REPUBLICAN isn't the progenitor/creator of the coin idea.[/LIST]
Perhaps you should STOP digging! Or at the very least don't bring your own shovel, to dig your own grave![/QUOTE]OK, you win Spidy. Carlos Mucha was a Republican. So was Paul Krugman, Rashida Tlaib, Jerry Nadler, Lawrence Tribe, James Galbraith and everyone else who came up with or pushed the idea of using a trillion dollar platinum coin to bypass Republicans and increase the debt ceiling. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were Republicans too. Hitler would have been a Republican, but he lived in Germany.

[QUOTE=Spidy;2859100]And it hasn't. But I know your hoping, praying and betting for one.

How does that economist joke go? Something like, [i]"Two (2) economists are arguing about whether, but neither of them looks out the window." [/i] Economists get it wrong all the time and have been getting it wrong for years.

But hey...we have good ol' Elvis 2008, ISG mongerer, to tell us everything we need to know about the economy. Your tell it to your Repub, chums, who might be buy it. I'm NOT!

Elvis, don't over think it! Bidenomics (and the economy) are doing just fine, [b]perhaps try sticking your head out the window. [/b](...kkkk!)[/QUOTE]Do numbers mean anything to you?

[URL]https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/02/in...-a-record-high[/URL]#text=Interest%20 costs%20 represented%20 about%208,spends%20 on%20 income%20 security%20 programs.

Net interest payments on the national debt rose from $352 billion in 2021 to $475 billion in 2022. As of August 2023 it costs $808 billion to maintain the debt, which is 15% of the total federal spending.

You don't have your head out the window. Your head is up your ass.

I feel like doing the Jonny Carson Carnac bit. The answer is it is Trump's fault.

The question: how do Tooms and Spidy account for the massive explosion in interest payments on the debt?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2861417]Hitler would have been a Republican, but he lived in Germany.[/QUOTE]Even though there was socialist in the party name, Hitler was a right winger and so was Stalin although I am not sure if the Democratic douches think he is a bad guy. Stalin's embrace of totalitarianism is literally what their dreams are made of.

"Darn it Desade.

I was starting to like you after your previous post. Now you are defending the Catholic Church cult that hides and protect its male employees that prey on children. Many of these male employees may be gay or straight, but the issue is sexual exploitation of those they have tasked with mentoring and nurturing. That church cult has caused untold misery worldwide, as have most other religious cults. You have evidence that all or most gay men are pedophiles?

I was a Catholic altar boy, now a militant atheist, I never heard of any nuns fucking the other altar boys or I certainly would of been all over it!

[URL]https://dailystormer.in/well-meaning-teacher-trying-to-do-the-right-thing-kills-himself-after-cuntocracy-liferuins-him-over-relationship-with-16-year-old-woman/[/URL]

Please define your usage of the word pedophile.

I rest my case.

[URL]https://www.nambla.org/[/URL]

[URL]https://dc.ewu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1497&context=theses[/URL]

And male pederasty is alive and well circa 2023.

I would never defend HeyZeus Inc (aka The Holy See), just calling a spade a spade.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2861417]OK, you win Spidy. Carlos Mucha was a Republican. So was Paul Krugman, Rashida Tlaib, Jerry Nadler, Lawrence Tribe, James Galbraith and everyone else who came up with or pushed the idea of using a trillion dollar platinum coin to bypass Republicans and increase the debt ceiling. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were Republicans too. Hitler would have been a Republican, but he lived in Germany.[/QUOTE]None of them "came up with" or "pushed" that idea. Bo Gritz csme up with the idea. Paul Krugman and most of the other likely Dems only responded to questions about its legality and conceded that employing Bo Gritz' original idea (whether they knew it or not) was a silly idea but at least it was not as horrifically bad an idea as what Repubs continually try to quite seriously propose and threaten to do.

Of course, few Repubs are ever going to consider or agree to something that could be done to defang or lessen the horrific proposals and threats championed by Repubs.

Themselves over and over and over again. Expecting Repubs to consider a possible remedy to their own constant efforts to destroy domestic and global economies? LOL. That ain't going to happen very often.

Carlos Mucha / Beowolf might actually be the lone exception to that in all of Repub World.

I mean, that might be the silliest expectation and least praiseworthy thing anyone ever said about Repubs; that few if any of them considered an alternative, less horrible remedy for their own most beloved and oft-repeated economy-destroying stunts. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2861418]Do numbers mean anything to you?

[URL]https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/02/in...-a-record-high[/URL]#text=Interest%20 costs%20 represented%20 about%208,spends%20 on%20 income%20 security%20 programs.

Net interest payments on the national debt rose from $352 billion in 2021 to $475 billion in 2022. As of August 2023 it costs $808 billion to maintain the debt, which is 15% of the total federal spending.[/QUOTE]And it's only going to get worse Elvis.

Here's a link to interest rates paid by the Federal government today.

[URL]https://www.gurufocus.com/yield_curve.php[/URL]

Rates out to a year are running 5. 4% and 10 and 30 year treasuries are at 5% yields.

Total federal debt held by the public is $25.5 trillion. Apply, say, a 5. 1% interest rate to that and you've got about $1. 3 trillion in annual payments just for interest on the debt! That would look to be where we're headed. And that's around 26% of current government revenues. Crazy!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2861418]I feel like doing the Jonny Carson Carnac bit. The answer is it is Trump's fault.

The question: how do Tooms and Spidy account for the massive explosion in interest payments on the debt?[/QUOTE]Well, Tooms and Spidy blame it all on Reagan, George W. Bush, Donald Trump and Republican Congressmen. And totally absolve Barrack Obama, Joe Biden and Democratic Congressmen. That's even though, in absolute terms, the national debt increased more during Obama's time in office than any other president's. And even though Biden may be on a path to exceed Obama's record if re-elected.

I think you and I agree that most federal politicians, Democrat and Republican, are poor custodians of the taxpayers' hard earned dollars. For Tooms and Spidy though it's all "Democrat Good, Republican Bad. ".

"Please explain?

And if it's not too much to ask, please provide evidence to support your claims / hypothesis.

Thanks!

P.S. : Yes a robust explanation (preferably in your own words and coherent sentences, if possible) would be extremely helpful. And yes, supporting links are also welcomed. ".

No hypothesis necessary, every cocksucking priest that raped a little boy was GAY not straight.

How many raped the little girls? ZERO, why? You might ask why is that, because they are fucking GAY.

I went to a Catholic grammar school (and high school and university) there were plenty of girls for them to rape.

Of course not all priests were gay, but if they were GAY they were sure to be raping the little boys, whilst the hetero ones were not raping anyone.

Res ipsa loquitur.

I rest my case.

Darn it desad. I'll join in the eternal pissing contest once more and go dark again after saying: if you think gay anal sex is disgusting just say so, instead of painting all gay men as predators of those under the age of consent. An for those he men who love carrying an engraved Glock, move to Compton and wear red or blue and report your activities on the American Politics thread. Maybe we will read about you in the news if you receive the "hand gun owner of the year award" for accidentally shooting youself in the groin. You might receive also the Darwin Award if you haven't yet procreated.

And I do like you since you came out as atheist. That's showing some common sense.

"Darn it desad. I'll join in the eternal pissing contest once more and go dark again after saying: if you think gay anal sex is disgusting just say so, instead of painting all gay men as predators of those under the age of consent. An for those he men who love carrying an engraved Glock, move to Compton and wear red or blue and report your activities on the American Politics thread. Maybe we will read about you in the news if you receive the "hand gun owner of the year award" for accidentally shooting youself in the groin. You might receive also the Darwin Award if you haven't yet procreated.

And I do like you since you came out as atheist. That's showing some common sense. ".

If I want to say something I say it, just ask the admin, I write it, you may never see it, like many of my posts, but I never play coy.

I say what I mean and mean what I say.

I am a true free speech absolutist.

Where did I say all gay men? You mentioned the age of consent? Ok where, what state what country.

That is a very very subjective thing, enforced willy nilly / capriciously in every of the 50 states and 3143 counties and 195 countries, ever see the movie with Jeremy Irons, Lolita?

What I did say is "GAY men love raping little boys!

And that is irrefutable!!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2861496]And it's only going to get worse Elvis.

Here's a link to interest rates paid by the Federal government today.

[URL]https://www.gurufocus.com/yield_curve.php[/URL]

Rates out to a year are running 5. 4% and 10 and 30 year treasuries are at 5% yields.

Total federal debt held by the public is $25.5 trillion. Apply, say, a 5. 1% interest rate to that and you've got about $1. 3 trillion in annual payments just for interest on the debt! That would look to be where we're headed. And that's around 26% of current government revenues. Crazy!

Well, Tooms and Spidy blame it all on Reagan, George W. Bush, Donald Trump and Republican Congressmen. And totally absolve Barrack Obama, Joe Biden and Democratic Congressmen. That's even though, in absolute terms, the national debt increased more during Obama's time in office than any other president's. And even though Biden may be on a path to exceed Obama's record if re-elected.

I think you and I agree that most federal politicians, Democrat and Republican, are poor custodians of the taxpayers' hard earned dollars. For Tooms and Spidy though it's all "Democrat Good, Republican Bad. ".[/QUOTE]Oh now seriously, let's all put our Thinking Caps on and see if we can figure out why the national debt would need to be increased so much after Obama, Biden and, oh why not, FDR took office?

Just because they were Dems and, you know.

Dems simply "spend like drunken sailors"?

How about this; name the Dem POTUS who came into office in the midst of NO Depression, NO Recession, two back-to-back quarters of 7%+ GDP Growth, DECLINING Unemployment Rates, DECLINING Rates of Inflation, after historic job gains and NO Massive Job Losses, with America engaged in not even ONE ground war on foreign soil yet who still launched into his Party's favorite economic policies that tripled the national debt and increased deficit spending that would embarrass a drunken sailor.

I'll save you and Elvis the research time; NO incoming Dem has been handed such a set of positive conditions from an outgoing Repub going back as far as reliable records are kept.

None.

But I can readily recall at least one incoming Repub who did exactly that, all of it; Beloved Repub Icon and Template for all Repub Economic Philosophy, Agenda and Results, Teflon Ronnie Reagan.

With a great big honorable mention going to GW Bush as recipient of the second greatest handoff of all time whose favorite Repub policies shit all over the USA economy and financial prudence as soon as they were enacted.

Trump almost inherited all those positive kinds of conditions except for the ground war on foreign soil part that his immediate Repub predecessor totally unnecessarily plunged America into and was only one of at least two that his immediate Dem predecessor was handed and had to deal with on day one.

Still, no incoming Dem has been handed as good a set of conditions from an outgoing Repub as Trump was handed by Obama.

Least of all FDR, Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

And for about the past 100 years, no incoming Repub has been handed as crappy a set of conditions from an outgoing Dem as virtually every Dem has been handed by the outgoing Repub. Not even close.

Just an unbroken pattern of "wild coincidences" of course, right? LOL.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2861417]OK, you win Spidy. Carlos Mucha was a Republican.
(skip)
Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were Republicans too. Hitler would have been a Republican, but he lived in Germany.[/QUOTE]Ted Bundy, Republican:

[URL]https://law.jrank.org/pages/12174/Bundy-Ted-Political-connections.html[/URL]

In fact, Bundy was the kind of Repub whose appearance, presentation and chosen candidates to support most directly would peg him as one of those "normal" Republicans.

Jeffrey Dahmer's political affiliation is more difficult to determine. However, his family's influence and life choices strongly suggest he was a typical, closeted, conservative, anti-science, bible-thumping Repub:

[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer[/URL]#text=In%20 early%201982%2 see%20 he%20 found, money%20 his%20 grandmother%20 gave%20 him.

[QUOTE]Shortly after completing his lengthy confessions in 1991, Dahmer had requested to Detective Murphy that he be given a copy of the Bible. This request was granted and Dahmer gradually devoted himself to Christianity and became a born-again Christian. On his father's urging, he also read creationist books from the Institute for Creation Research. In May 1994, Dahmer was baptized by Roy Ratcliff, a minister in the Church of Christ and a graduate of Oklahoma Christian University whom he had met on April 20. This service was conducted in the prison whirlpool.[/QUOTE]And there is no doubt Hitler would have been drawn to Trump's Republican Party that praises, attracts and is practically exclusively represented in its voter base by "very fine people on both sides", but most especially on the Nazi side.

A feat no one has accomplished since the late great FDR.

[URL]https://amgreatness.com/2023/10/16/trump-is-surging/[/URL]

Sockpuppet Dirty Joe is not only corrupt hes also extremely incompetent.

That puts a target on all of our backs!!

[URL]https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/state-department-worldwide-caution/2023/10/19/id/1138996/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2861417]OK, you win Spidy. Carlos Mucha was a Republican.[/QUOTE] Okay!

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2861417]Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer were Republicans too. Hitler would have been a Republican, but he lived in Germany.[/QUOTE] Hitler is a Republican...hmmmm, you MAYBE on to something there! But keep it under your hat for now!

[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2861417]So was Paul Krugman, Rashida Tlaib, Jerry Nadler, Lawrence Tribe, James Galbraith and everyone else who came up with or pushed the idea of using a trillion dollar platinum coin to bypass Republicans and increase the debt ceiling. [/QUOTE]

Hey listen! It has been acknowledged (by myself, EihTooms and you) that as of late, due to recent crisis events, when asked by reporters, whether due to the pandemic or crazy Republican political debt hostage negotiations, yes, some Democrats have embraced the coin idea, or some variation of it. They see it as a possible solution to these issues. I have not denied that.

So yes, you are correct about this, with regards to these Democrats, being recent adopters of the coin idea. But let's not get this twisted. Again, NONE OF THEM, are the progenitor/creator of the coin idea.

Now I did already submitted a Huffington Post that article that states, [i][Jan 24th, 2023] "Democrats and Republicans Agree: Minting A $1 Trillion Coin Isn't A Serious Idea" [/i]
[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mint-trillion-dollar-coin-debt_n_63cfedcee4b0c2b49ad81fc9[/URL]. While neither see the coin as a serious idea, clearly the Dems are hanging on to this crazy notion, as a possible way, to combat the crazy notions by MAGA Repubs on the far right.

Good on you for pulling up my initial/original post, ([URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?p=2859614#post2859614[/URL]). Now since you've re-posted it, I will assume you've re-read it!!! (Although, that maybe a poor assumption on my part, since you clearly [b]DID NOT[/b] properly read any of your own articles/links, where they clearly indicate Beowulf as a REPUBLICAN).

I'm assuming you've pulled it up to say what exactly??? What, that I said, "a republication is the progenitor/creator of the coin idea?" Unlike yourself, declaring (a couple of times) you'd found your "Democrat Patsy" as the progenitor/creator of the coin (as shown through ACTS 1 and ACTS 2), [b]I did not make any such grandiose statements[/b], until I knew for sure (in ACT 3). BTW, thanks again for providing the articles and links, prove my case.

Now naturally, when reading my original post about the coin idea, someone might get the impression and/or assume, that I thought the idea was a REPUBLICAN created idea. Note, for those BMs that read this political forum and know my posts, will acknowledge, I tend to post a lot of dumb things Repubs (mostly MAGA Repubs) say and do. So your conclusions to those assumptions would be warranted.

With that said, it's not a stretch of the imagination, Tiny 12 (also given your Democratic prejudices), for you to [b]THINK[/b] that, in my initial post, I had said "a REPUBLICAN created idea". If you still think, I said that, then I ask again, please indicate where in that post I [u][b]explicitly[/b] said, say, proclaim or state[/u], [i]"a REPUBLICAN is the creator/created the coin idea".[/i]

Tiny 12, perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but let's be honest here, what you really meant was that my initial post was [b]"implying"[/b], that [i]"a REPUBLICAN is the creator/created the coin idea".[/i] Which, as I said before, hadn't occurred to me [b]until you open your mouth and proclaimed,[/b] it was the Democrats (on several occasions)! I know you don't believe me, but it's true, I wasn't thinking that, when I wrote the post.

So yes, you may think my post [b]"implies"[/b] a Republican, is the coin idea's creator, but it DOES NOT specifically or explicitly, say so in the post.