Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

[quote]"Taan Fai Gow" isn't about infidelity. "Taan Fai Gow" (basically trying to start a fire with burnt coal) is an idiom used to refer to people who try to 'rekindle' a romance with an ex-GF/BF.[/quote]

That is very cool to know. I didn't know that.

I'm referencing it from the song 'Taan Fai Gow' by Bird which dealt with this 'rekindling' but at the expense of another guy. It explicitly deals with a lying, cheating Thai girl promising her love to a guy meanwhile slipping off and seeing her ex. Over and fuckin' over again. In the end her boyfriend chucks the engagement ring.

Bird has a ton of songs dealing with him getting burned by a girl (which is ironic since he's gay).

Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.

I want to ask my ex because she can provide a lot longer list than I could. We had this discussion once. It was really interesting.

I'm not saying these are Thailand or Thai people but the themes they ecompass are the same ones foreigners deal with; from love to betrayal. Music, at least in part, is a reflection of its society otherwise it woudn't resonate with it.

[QUOTE=Zarnon]
Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.[/QUOTE]

Ya, I know this song quite well. At the risk of raising some flames, I think there are more incidents of infidelity among the rural poor, especially in Isaan, largely because of five factors. Firstly, they don't have a lot to do, but fuck around when planting season is finished. Secondly, marriages are mostly ceremonial, not legal so that both parties don't feel as much a sense of committment and can just leave the marriage at any time. Thirdly, due to economics, they often have to spend time away from each other, principally in BKK, to earn money and therefore often find someone else. Fourthly, the family unit in rural Isaan is often not very stable and therefore provides a poor role model. And lastly, the culture doesn't possess that healthy dose of Judeao-Christian, Victorian guilt that keeps us less likely to stray in Western culture. Further to that, at least for the men, multiple partners is a cultural norm, what with the tradition of the Mia Noi. Now, with a bit more equality, and external influences from media (just watch Thai TV, for Gawd's sake) and women especially upcountry are also getting Gigs on the side, as well. My sense of rural Isaan culture, as it relates to this issue is that relationships tend to be far more fluid (surprisingly) than those in the city among the better educated classes.

At least, that's my experience. I've had Thai women cheat on me in the past and they were always from Isaan and always rural poor, which is one of the many reasons I don't associate with that type of TG, anymore. My current GF is also from Isaan, but is not a farm-girl, is better educated and middle class and seems to be incredibly loyal to me. I think it has a lot to do with her family, which are very stable and have instilled in her very strong values.

In the end, it comes down to the quality of the girl, her background and upbringing.

[QUOTE=Zarnon]<cut>
Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.

I want to ask my ex because she can provide a lot longer list than I could. We had this discussion once. It was really interesting.

I'm not saying these are Thailand or Thai people but the themes they ecompass are the same ones foreigners deal with; from love to betrayal. Music, at least in part, is a reflection of its society otherwise it woudn't resonate with it.[/QUOTE]
Both "Bird" Thongchai and Thai Thanawut are very popular singers of course. Therefore we can find their stuff on the internet. I have also bought CDs from both of them previously.

Here is the song from Thai Thanawut on UTube
"Sanyaa Meua Sanyaa":
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iTY_abxyA&feature=related[/url]

Also Khon Suay Jai Dam (Beautiful Girl - Black Heart):
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfKrkAMzlzY[/url]

Another good one:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4rh7GCaN8s&feature=related[/url]

And now for the Lyrics of "Old Flame" or (Coals of an Old Fire still burning) Thaan Fai Gao (the one by Bird):
[url]http://www.birdthongchai.com/lyric/lyric_thaanfaigao.htm[/url]
He (the singer) thinks she is still pining for her old flame
(which is I guess mental infidelity).
Is physical infidelity worse than mental?
Of course not. Mongers fuck around all the time.
It doesn't mean we are in love with those we play up with.

A Great video for the newbies or for the ones that look to the internet for finding your loved one...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGBl2eoz_4&feature=related[/url]

You can also look at this one, another Emmy award winner! [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0y53yhQFo&feature=related[/url]

This video was especially painful for me to watch as I can empathize with "Phil" completely because of my two failed marital relationships with foreign women(not Thai, however) I have experienced in my past life!

One of these relationships mirrored "Phils" situation and the other was different as it was played out in the native country of my former spouse.

I believe my situations, however, were more painfully experienced as the women were of my race(Caucasian) and religious(Judeo/Christian) background so you would expect that, at least, to work in my favor-it didn't!

At least "Phil" can attribute some of the reason(s), whether true or not, his marital relationship failed was because of cultural, racial and religious(and/or) differences as well as the all the inherent problems of "importing" a women(either spouse or girlfriend) into an different/unfamiliar culture.

I am a firm believer, based on a multitude of past life's experiences, that the emotional make-up of women, regarding their attraction for or their non-attraction for certain men(or boys/girls/women, if you will) is constant and stays the same throughout their lives(i.e. the "attraction genes" are the same from when they were born until when they die and there is only a very slight chance that age/life's situation will change them).

Trying to "read between the lines" in "Phil's" situation is pretty mundane as IMO, I would guess it "looks like what it is"; a middle-aged man, not very "good looking"(IMO), frustrated and miserable being alone and(possibly) a "player" in the local dating scene(bars, singles dances, dating services, internet match sites, etc.) with older, unattractive, demanding, moody, undependable, unpredictable, materialistic and make you "earn" sexual favors(who exhibit any or all of these characteristics) women.

IMO, "Phil" saw the oportunity to marry Anchana which would be a "lifetime ticket" to a women who was much younger, more attractive, more sexually active/desirable, and, if you will, a more obedient caretaker who he NEVER would have to worry about and who would "ALWAYS be there for him, for better or worse".

He, and uncountable other "Phils", violated what, IMHO, I believe to be Rule #1 for understanding a woman's attraction "gene":

"A women is going to "like"(i.e. be attracted to) the boy/man(or, in some cases, the girl/woman) she is going to "like". Any attempt to "make" her like you by any means is "buying" her time and is a complete waist of yours."

Sometimes I just think some of the people on this forum are being crazy!
We all agree if you want a good, long term relationship, your chances are better of the girl is not a BG. We say meet a nice middle class or professional woman. Then others say, well, that's so hard to do!

Nonsense. Okay, if you're a coal miner in Australia, chances are you won't find a lady cardiologist to be your paramour. Would you find one at home? If you raise rattlesnakes for religions in West Vriginia, chances are you are not going to meet and seetle down with a beautiful Buddhist investment banker.

If you raise rattlesnakes, go hang out at the Pasteur Institute in Bangkok and discuss your career with the people who work there. If you're a coal miner ... well, maybe you should just go back to Oz. Thais are very class concious. They are very unlikely to socialize with someone below their class.

Another thing, if you do meet that nice middle class or professional woman (and I do NOT mean women of the OLDEST profession) you do yourself no good to mention how nice they are after all the *****s you've been with. You'd better be telling them you've never been to Soi Cowboy. I told my lady friend that when I first got to Bangkok I walked over to Nana Plaza just to see what I'd read about. Told her how it digusted me to see all those tattooed skanks and I never went back. That way, if I slip and mention something, I'm covered.

I just don't understand the guys who pick up a bar girl, screw her six ways to Sunday then expect her to change her life and be the ideal GF. Would you go to Times Square, pick up a hooker and fall in love?

So, my advice:
1) have reasonable expectations - hang out at places in which you are part of the social or educational class
2) by the way, a BG probably won't care if you're 30 years older than her - other ladies in Thailand may be tolerant of a few years but don't expect miracles
3) if you just gotta get laid tonight, go to a bar or massage parlor - professional ladies realize having a farang in their life will seriously complicate thier lives - be prepared for a courtship period
4) if you go to a P4P lady, use a condom - you won't make any points with your middle class paramour if you drop a case of clap in her lap
5) be prepare to spend time talking, getting the lady to see you have things in common, that you can be interesting and fun to be with
6) when you finally get a "decent" girl to go out with you, think 1950s - bring flowers, candy, little gifts - save jewelry for later
7) the best way is to meet her brother first - IMHO - I knew my current lady's brother professionally for a couple of months and then accidentally met his sister - he liked and trusted me so it was a short and quick path into her confidence
8) never - ever - mention you've been with a hooker - not to her and not to her brother
9) learn some Thai - a few words will go a long way - especially when you meet her family; then keep learning but don't expect her to be your teacher, you khii-niao son-of-a-*****
10) remember the very many basic differences in your cultures, the way you see and react to things - be calm, accepting and flexible: chances are she will
11) Don't post on ISG if your lady can look over your shoulder...

Oh, damn. I know there are more basic rules but I can't seem to think of any right now. Hey guys, wanna help me expand this list?

[QUOTE=Animby]2) by the way, a BG probably won't care if you're 30 years older than her - other ladies in Thailand may be tolerant of a few years but don't expect miracles[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything you say except this one. Age differences are still part of the culture. The most famous example of a May-December romance is Pui (former Miss Thailand/Miss Universe) who at 36 married a 76 y.o. (multi-millionaire) lawyer from NY. I don't think it was the money, though as she's also quite well-off.

I know numerous older Farang like myself who are with regular, middle-class TGs who are much younger. My GF as I've mentioned several times is 23 and I'm 56. She's not after money. She come from a solid, middle-class family (her father is a retired govt. minister and is quite comfortable). She may have a "Daddy" fixation, perhaps. But, whatever, it works for me.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...I don't think it was the money, though as she's also quite well-off...[/QUOTE]

Of course it is the money. No one seeks a rich partner more than a rich woman - the poor woman is satisfied with any fellow with some money, but the rich woman must find a man richer than herself. This is the requirement in any culture, western or thai.

But as for all the recommendations from Animby, well I have dated a couple of middle class educated Thai girls and I didn't lie or pretend or give gifts. I was just myself as I would be with, for example, the college girls I dated back home. Everything went fine. And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.

Being in Bangkok as a farang for any amount of time and telling any but the most ignorant of a Thai woman that you have NEVER been with a hooker and expecting her to believe it is the ULTIMATE of "fooling yourself".LOL

[QUOTE=Opebo]And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.[/QUOTE]

And you live in Thailand?
Of course the girls will suspect you went for it, but they would prefer you being in denial or keeping quiet about it.

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]And you live in Thailand?
Of course the girls will suspect you went for it, but they would prefer you being in denial or keeping quiet about it.[/QUOTE]

It's already pretty well established that Opebo knows nothing about Thai women, despite living here for while.

[QUOTE=Opebo]Of course it is the money. No one seeks a rich partner more than a rich woman - the poor woman is satisfied with any fellow with some money, but the rich woman must find a man richer than herself. This is the requirement in any culture, western or thai...[/QUOTE]

Think you could lend me that book of requirements when you have a chance? Or maybe you havent published it yet.

[QUOTE=Opebo]...But as for all the recommendations from Animby, well I have dated a couple of middle class educated Thai girls and I didn't lie or pretend or give gifts. I was just myself as I would be with, for example, the college girls I dated back home. Everything went fine. And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.[/QUOTE]

Were you as forthcoming with 'going to hookers' with the 'college girls you dated back home' as you were with the 'middle class educated Thai girls'?

[size=1]Just curious.[/size]

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I know numerous older Farang like myself who are with regular, middle-class TGs who are much younger. My GF as I've mentioned several times is 23 and I'm 56.[/QUOTE]

You're right, of course. I, too, have a much younger ladyfriend (22 years difference). I think her acceptance of the age difference is due to her mother, at 19, marrying a man of 40-something. But I have perceived a growing shift in this attitude ... at least in city girls. Me? I like old-fashioned girls.

Opebo, yes the girl is going to assume we have been with hookers. Her family will assume so, too. Hell, her daddy's probably been with a P4P once or twice. I maintain, however, to admit it would eventually be the end of the relationship. The middle and upper classes are simply too cautious about their images. They fear if their daughters date farang, the girls will be perceived as *****s. If you admit to your whoring ways... well!

I maintain that even if her brother comes up to you and says he saw you in Patpong last night with topless hookers on either side of you and a third between your legs banging her head against the table, you look him directly in the eye and say, "Wasn't me! You know how I feel about *****s..."

[QUOTE=Animby]
I maintain that even if her brother comes up to you and says he saw you in Patpong last night with topless hookers on either side of you and a third between your legs banging her head against the table, you look him directly in the eye and say, "Wasn't me! You know how I feel about *****s..."[/QUOTE]

That’s it. Never admit to anything and deny everything in block. That’s the only way. But refrain to push your luck and ask the brother what he was doing in Patpong at such a late hour. And above all do not suggest that he might have been there selling sex himself, possibly his own body, which must have been the case as the only Thai people one can encounter in Patpong are those who try to sell you something.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]It's already pretty well established that Opebo knows nothing about Thai women, despite living here for while.[/QUOTE]

OTH, your characterization is inaccurate. Of course I am aware that the ordinary false, dimwitted, moneygrubbing Thai woman who lives traditionally and in thrall to her family will expect the sort of duplicitousness you describe, even between the two of you. But I am more discerning in my dating practices, confining them to highly educated, open minded, and Westernized women. These are not quite so tiresome as the girls with whom you consort, who apparently expect gifts, lies, and so forth.

However I would never discuss anything honestly with a parent or relative of a girlfriend in either the US or Thailand - family is a horror, and the older generation everwhere is enmired in prejudice.