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[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1605156]Easy: the girl has a cold. She just sneezed and wiped her nose before she gave you a HJ. The viri are now on your dick. You go to the toilet and forget to wash your hands afterwards. Repeat it enough times and after a while you'll get a cold too.[/QUOTE]No HJ needed in that case. In fact, if she sneezes, you just need to sit close enough to her in the bar. Or on a bus. Common cold and flu are airborne.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1606489]Please don't say abstinence or monogamy with a tested [B]and trusted to be faithful[/B] partner.[/QUOTE]What! My 25 yo bar girl who says she loves me may be cheating on me and seeing other guys. I'm shocked.
[QUOTE=Kerrstar;1606554]What! My 25 yo bar girl who says she loves me may be cheating on me and seeing other guys. I'm shocked.[/QUOTE]You can replace 'may be' by 'is'.
But don't worry, she told me she always insists on condoms LOL!
[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1606166]And your point is?
Your example is like saying that someone wearing a swimsuit and being fired at a distance of 300 m with a small handgun by a blind person, is "safer" than someone wearing full anti-ballistic body armour standing in the middle of an accurately placed 155 mm artillery strike. It is not the body armour that will kill the latter or the swimsuit that saves the former. Using a condom ALWAYS improves the odds of both partners.
Please refrain from giving such examples which the mathematically challenged members of this forum might give a (bad) reason to engage in unsafe practices.[/QUOTE]Wolvenvacht, to be honest I think you did not get the point. Your example is completely different from Pinkpearl's.
All that Pinkpearl was saying is that a condom does not give 100% protection if you do not use it in a safe way. Although I admit that his example was a bit weak. I think almost everybody keeps pumping away until satisfaction. But if you do that in a gentle way and not like 'a machine gun' then the condom will not slip or break.
[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1606489]Pray tell, which ways to protect oneself from HIV are nearly as effective as using a condom?
Please don't say abstinence or monogamy with a tested [B]and trusted to be faithful[/B] partner.[/QUOTE]I'd suggest to RTF. No need to cover the entire 140 pages of the Safe Sex thread, just the last 25, especially down to about page 10. Or from post 1810 of 4/21/12. These also might be of interest:
1852 of 6/8/12.
1956 of 9/12/12.
1932 of 10/20/12.
1991 of 3/12/13.
[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1271101]PinkPearl, I grant you that your 7 step program for safe sex is not bad and may even be equal in risk as having casual sex with a condom, [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1606166]And your point is?[/QUOTE]The first example was of my own BBFS practice. The second example was of what quite often occurs with condom users. The conclusion was that my BBFS practice is safer than their CFS sex.
[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1606166]Using a condom ALWAYS improves the odds of both partners.[/QUOTE]The following two examples prove that statement to be false.
1. a STI clean faithfully monogamous couple have sex. Sex with each other poses no risk of stis to either one of them. It doesn't matter if they use a condom or not as far as sti are concerned. The risk is the same either way.
2. a man and woman have sex. The guy presumes its safe to cum inside her becuz he is wearing a rubber, but the cover has failed. The lady is exposed to his cum, and as a result becomes pregnant and gets infected with an STI.
This same couple have sex without a condom, so they don't have the false security blanket of a potentially defective / broken / slipping condom as an excuse for the guy to deposit a huge cum load inside her. Consequently the guy does not cum inside her and they experience no problems, just much more pleasurable sex.
Did a condom improve their odds of avoiding problems? No, blind trust in it actually led to the problems that were caused. They were better off without the condom.
Does "Using a condom always improves the odds of both partners?" No, in fact it often makes matters worse.
BTW, did you know that latex can kill you?
[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1606112]Fact: she is at more risk from the guy using a condom that the one having BBFS with her.[/QUOTE]Just as well PinkPearl they don't have you running the program to prevent the spread of aids around the world. When you have sex with an infected partner you are taking a risk. While a condom doesn't eliminate that risk entirely it greatly reduces it and that's a fact. To argue otherwise is simply potty.
I get it, BBFS is more pleasurable and if you think you are about to pop off and are not infected I. E. Not going to infect anybody else I say go for it, why not? It might all be over before the dawn cometh.
[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1606678]The first example was of my own BBFS practice. The second example was of what quite often occurs with condom users. The conclusion was that my BBFS practice is safer than their CFS sex.
The following two examples prove that statement to be false.
1. a STI clean faithfully monogamous couple have sex. Sex with each other poses no risk of stis to either one of them. It doesn't matter if they use a condom or not as far as sti are concerned. The risk is the same either way.
2. a man and woman have sex. The guy presumes its safe to cum inside her becuz he is wearing a rubber, but the cover has failed. The lady is exposed to his cum, and as a result becomes pregnant and gets infected with an STI.
This same couple have sex without a condom, so they don't have the false security blanket of a potentially defective / broken / slipping condom as an excuse for the guy to deposit a huge cum load inside her. Consequently the guy does not cum inside her and they experience no problems, just much more pleasurable sex.
Did a condom improve their odds of avoiding problems? No, blind trust in it actually led to the problems that were caused. They were better off without the condom.
Does "Using a condom always improves the odds of both partners?" No, in fact it often makes matters worse.
BTW, did you know that latex can kill you?[/QUOTE]PinkPearl,
I'm not going to answer you anymore: you keep comparing apples to oranges and obviously you have failed to grasp the basics of risk and statistics.
[QUOTE=Franciscass;1606725]Just as well PinkPearl they don't have you running the program to prevent the spread of aids around the world. [/QUOTE]I get almost all my info from those that "run the program". I just put their premises of 2 plus 2 together to reach the sum total of 4 of some of my conclusions. That's from thousands of hours reading ruminating & researching the subject. Health profesionals who are well informed re safe sex issues on two well known popular websites have seen my comments on their forums & tacitly approved them.
[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1606166]Please refrain from giving such examples which the mathematically challenged members of this forum might give a (bad) reason to engage in unsafe practices.[/QUOTE]Unsafe practices? Like ejaculating sperm into a lady via a broken condom, just so a guy can have 3 seconds of pleasure there, thereby putting the girl at risk for HIV, pregnancy, etc? When the male could just as easily have withdrawn first & then have his 3 seconds of fun? But I'm sure sure you'ld never put a female at risk by shooting a huge cum load into her, blindly trusting in a fallible rubber that as far as you know may have holes in it, right?
As for Math, the very simple Mathematical formulas have already been posted on the forum. So people can easily use them to do their own calculations or ask for help if still needed.
Moreover a number of the Mathematics related to this topic have already been calculated & posted. No Math is needed to read the posted conclusions, such as the odds of becoming HIV positive through condom sex, bareback sex, & if one is circumcised over periods of 20 40 and 60 years.
Additionally, for an example, it requires no Math to see that, of the numbers 60,90 and 99, two are higher than the numbers related to the protection that condoms give against HIV. Which makes condons the second worst method of the four, the 2 highest being combinable with bareback sex to make it safer than the protection people who use condoms get.
"In practice, inconsistent use may reduce the overall effectiveness of condoms to as low as 60 to 70%.
Whereas circumcision has been cited as offering the same level of protection vs HIV as rubbers. Which would make those circumcised & having BB sex as safe re HIV as condom users.
When I add to BB sex not only circumcision but recent STI testing & withdrawal, I am light years ahead of the average condom user who has nothing else going for him. Like I said, you can have your cake & eat it too.
The above speaks to the risk per sex act, which is different from the sex lifestyle risk. For example, how often do you abstain from sex? We all abstain to one degree or another, since no one does it 24/7. If you shag once a month you are probably going to be 30 times safer than those who do it once every day. Even if the former was BB and the latter condomized, the BB would probably be much safer. BTW I'd rather do it BB one a month than with a plastic baggie every day.
Then we could speak of overall lifestyle health risk. Do you use a condom & then go side saddle with a yaba using motorbike driver to stuff your face with six big macs, large fries & a coke to wash it down?
ok, so i've got one. i just got home from 5 weeks in los. i barebacked two girls early in the trip. one girl hopped on for a few pumps before i insisted on one. the other was to completion with pulling out. 95% of the girls that i went with didn't seem to give a shit if i wrapped it up or not. i'm not married or anything, but i've got a regular fuck buddy back home and we don't use condoms so i wanted to get myself tested before going home. i was staying on soi 7 in pattaya at the end of the trip, right by pattaya memorial. i read some not so great things about pm, but i figured i would just use them since they were so close.
wait time wasn't bad. i was sitting in front of the doc within a half hour. i told him i wanted to get tested. he seemed surprised since i had no symptoms. i told him i wanted to get tested before "going home" and we shared a little laugh and a knowing look. he told me since i had no symptoms that there was no point in doing a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] test! come again? the numbers vary, but in everything i've ever read, chlamydia and gonorrhea are asymptomatic in the majority of people. where did this guy go to school? i told him i wanted to do it anyways.
i was shuffled off to the little sample collection cube. not only do they do [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url], but they still do swab tests over here. back home it's just a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] test, no swab. my heart sank a little when i saw the long cotton swab on the table. the lady did a skillfully painless blood draw. then, swab in hand, she tells me i need to get a little hard for her to put it in. huh? well, being on top of each other in this tiny cube with this not particularly attractive woman, i was having difficulty trying to stroke myself hard. so she takes off her glove and lends a hand. still not really doing it for me. it's just awkward. so i'm staring at the ceiling, thinking sexy thoughts, when i feel her mouth go on my johnson! i'm there for a fucking std test and she starts blowing me, hand to god! fucking thailand. well that did it. so she's alternating blowing me, then dipping the swab in whatever solution and sticking it in and out. repeat the process about four times. i've never had the swab before. it wasn't the worst thing ever, but that shit stings. talk about your pain and pleasure, it was almost an s&m experience. she would have finished me off, but i was holding it in and i heard her neighbor in the next cube say something in thai and we just kind of stopped. they get lab results back in an hour, but i was starving and i just decided to come back tomorrow since i was staying so close.
i go back in the next day and get checked in. the rather cute check-in girl also knows what i'm there for, but she starts flirting with me. "you hansum man. " she had to put a little sticker on my chest and she was shyly giggling and looking back and forth at me. had braces and in her cute little white nurses uniform. she was looking pretty good. better than those potato sack scrubs back home. sorry, i digress. i go in for the results and guess who got chlamydia! i wanted to "in your face!" to the doc a tiny bit, but then i would be saying, "yeah, that's right i got chlamydia! in your face!" that wasn't really going to be that satisfying, so i kept quiet. i had asked to be checked for gono as well, but i don't think they did. it wasn't on the lab sheet. this was the first time in my life (28) i've ever had an std. i was a little bummed of course. they gave me the azithromycin, one dose treatment. i asked the doc when it was ok to have sex again. he asked me when i was going back home. i told him 5 days. he said, "uh. i think it's ok. " thanks, doc. everything i've checked since online says 7 days. i blew past the cute girl on the way out. i had envisioned walking by with my clean sheet and saying something silly about not having any stds and asking her for dinner, but my hopes were obviously dashed. it wasn't cheap either. it was about 3,300 baht for the lab test, medication, and hospital fees. they had originally quoted me an additional 1,000 or so, but they didn't charge it at the cashier so i didn't bring it up.
so, the short and sweet: i didn't trust the competency of the doctor at all, the place isn't that cheap, but their lab work is probably fine and i was in and out in a hour or so each time even though they were fairly busy. oh, the possibility of the collection lady contaminating the results of my test isn't lost on me. i just took the antibiotics and i'll retest here in a few weeks. probably have to fess up to my fuck buddy here and go back to condoms for a little while. not looking forward to that conversation. i've read that since the antibiotic treatment is so effective, many sources say you don't need a retest within a few weeks and that if you do, you could potentially have a false positive, since you're no longer infectious, but the tests might still pick it up. does anyone have any input on this? i want to go back to barebacking my chica at home, but i don't want to give it to her. thanks guys, sorry i'm long-winded. wrap it up!
I meant to add, I'm 100% sure that I picked it up in Thailand as I had full STD screening right before I left home. For anyone who might suggest I brought it with me.
[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1607905]Unsafe practices? Like ejaculating sperm into a lady via a broken condom, just so a guy can have 3 seconds of pleasure there, thereby putting the girl at risk for HIV, pregnancy, etc? When the male could just as easily have withdrawn first & then have his 3 seconds of fun? But I'm sure sure you'ld never put a female at risk by shooting a huge cum load into her, blindly trusting in a fallible rubber that as far as you know may have holes in it, right?
As for Math, the very simple Mathematical formulas have already been posted on the forum. So people can easily use them to do their own calculations or ask for help if still needed.
Moreover a number of the Mathematics related to this topic have already been calculated & posted. No Math is needed to read the posted conclusions, such as the odds of becoming HIV positive through condom sex, bareback sex, & if one is circumcised over periods of 20 40 and 60 years.
Additionally, for an example, it requires no Math to see that, of the numbers 60,90 and 99, two are higher than the numbers related to the protection that condoms give against HIV. Which makes condons the second worst method of the four, the 2 highest being combinable with bareback sex to make it safer than the protection people who use condoms get.
"In practice, inconsistent use may reduce the overall effectiveness of condoms to as low as 60 to 70%.
Whereas circumcision has been cited as offering the same level of protection vs HIV as rubbers. Which would make those circumcised & having BB sex as safe re HIV as condom users.
When I add to BB sex not only circumcision but recent STI testing & withdrawal, I am light years ahead of the average condom user who has nothing else going for him. Like I said, you can have your cake & eat it too.
The above speaks to the risk per sex act, which is different from the sex lifestyle risk. For example, how often do you abstain from sex? We all abstain to one degree or another, since no one does it 24/7. If you shag once a month you are probably going to be 30 times safer than those who do it once every day. Even if the former was BB and the latter condomized, the BB would probably be much safer. BTW I'd rather do it BB one a month than with a plastic baggie every day.
[/QUOTE]Your post does not make any sense at all. I don't have the time to show up its logical inconsistencies and I suspect that it will not make any difference to you either.
[quote=deori;1608163]ok, so i've got one. i just got home from 5 weeks in los. i barebacked two girls early in the trip. one girl hopped on for a few pumps before i insisted on one. the other was to completion with pulling out. 95% of the girls that i went with didn't seem to give a shit if i wrapped it up or not. i'm not married or anything, but i've got a regular fuck buddy back home and we don't use condoms so i wanted to get myself tested before going home. i was staying on soi 7 in pattaya at the end of the trip, right by pattaya memorial. i read some not so great things about pm, but i figured i would just use them since they were so close.
wait time wasn't bad. i was sitting in front of the doc within a half hour. i told him i wanted to get tested. he seemed surprised since i had no symptoms. i told him i wanted to get tested before "going home" and we shared a little laugh and a knowing look. he told me since i had no symptoms that there was no point in doing a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url] test! come again? the numbers vary, but in everything i've ever read, chlamydia and gonorrhea are asymptomatic in the majority of people. where did this guy go to school? i told him i wanted to do it anyways...[/quote]sorry you caught the bug, one way or another. first i have heard of someone getting a bj in a hospital. a very good report.
[quote=deori;1608163]i was shuffled off to the little sample collection cube. not only do they do [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109][CodeWord109][/url], but they still do swab tests over here. back home it's just a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] test, no swab. my heart sank a little when i saw the long cotton swab on the table. the lady did a skillfully painless blood draw. then, swab in hand, she tells me i need to get a little hard for her to put it in. snip
i just took the antibiotics and i'll retest here in a few weeks. probably have to fess up to my fuck buddy here and go back to condoms for a little while. not looking forward to that conversation. i've read that since the antibiotic treatment is so effective, many sources say you don't need a retest within a few weeks and that if you do, you could potentially have a false positive, since you're no longer infectious, but the tests might still pick it up. does anyone have any input on this? i want to go back to barebacking my chica at home, but i don't want to give it to her. thanks guys, sorry i'm long-winded. wrap it up![/quote]i had a swab test once, many years ago. but that was in my home country and the doctor did not say i had to get a little hard for her to put it in. i guess she was more skilled in doing swab tests than blow jobs, lol!
i wouldn't worry too much about infecting your girl friend at home. the antibiotic treatment is indeed very effective (only a few pills are needed, that says it all) and you got the treatment already before the symptoms were showing! one week of abstinence should be enough. your dick had a little cold, that's all, it wasn't somekind of life threatening disease.
if your girl friend wants to have sex you can come up with some excuse that you're tired or not in the mood or (of course) that you have a headache.