Monterrey

With respect to your assessment of El Infinito, I agree with you that it's a SHIT HOLE in the privados. I never said I liked it, or that I even go there at this juncture. The truth is, I do go there, but usually for only about ten minutes at a time, usually just to interview the girls. I move very quickly through the lower level bars, and I don't typically stay because I am impatient, and I can assess the opportunities rapidly. Like you, I don't particularly like the atmosphere. But, I go there because there are some fantastic girls, girls that are every bit as good as any high end massage parlor girl, or escort, and for less money.

I have found a ton of very good girls in El Infinito, and it is probably one of the best resources in the city. With respect to cost, routinely I spend 350 to 700 pesos on the bar fine, and 1000 pesos for the girl, usually Diva quality, and they stay no less than 4-6 hours. I defy anyone to achieve that same cost comparison with respect to time spent when compared to the high end massage parlors and/or escort services. And, the reality is, once I've found them, they are regulars, charging even less, and staying even longer. And, the escort girls or the high end massage parlor girls are no better looking, or any more "girl," than the best of the best in El Infinito. But, I agree that to each his own. I agree that some might enjoy the high end massage parlors and/or escort girls more than the bar scene, and I am fine with that. I am just defending my chosen venue with the same opinionated vigor as those who have found their other venues to be more rewarding. Nothing more...

But, the important thing is this...The bar girl's story was BS, and it should not be represented as true, and that hyping the dangers of Mexico is counter-productive, especially if the stories are hyped and false, and/or misleading with respect to the level of danger most would encounter by coming to the city. Life goes on in Monterrey, and while dangers do exist, the routine of life is still just that, relatively routine. This issue about everyone being on edge is simply not true. Everyone is aware that the dangers exist, and many are more in-tune with their surroundings, etc...but, there isn't a palpable fear among the population other than from the more dramatic...ie: bar girls, who for some reason always believe they are the center of attention and that everything revolves around them.

A warning to avoid dangerous circumstances is prudent. But, El Infinito IS NOT DANGEROUS, and nothing has ever happened there other than little minor altercations, the same kind of thing found in countless bars all across the USA, mostly as a result of drunks getting out of hand, and not because there is any gang related altercations causing issues.

You might also be rather surprised at just how many bouncers come out of the wood work at these bars when there is even a slight hint of things getting out of hand. They're planted all over the place, and while there are gang members in attendance, the bouncers are pretty good at keeping things under control. I've seen how they spring into action, many more of them than can be detected by just walking in and glancing around. So, don't believe for one second that the management of these cash cow businesses are going to permit things to get out of hand if they can help it. They are even more diligent now due to the Givenchy fiasco.

And, the other consideration is the underworld connection that many of these bars have. There is a certain "protection" that many of them enjoy. Remember, the guys that committed the murders in Givenchy are either on the run, strung up by their balls, or dead right now. This is all due to the Cartels taking revenge against the perpetrators because they acted against Cartel orders. It doesn't mean that something like Givenchy couldn't happen again, or that the shoot out couldn't take place tomorrow. But, for the most part, the likelihood is probably less that you would be injured in El Infinito, or any of the other bars, than on the downtown streets, or by walking into an Oxxo Store at night in El Centro.

Your recommendation not to visit Monterrey is a personal opinion, and if you're trying to get transferred due to the dangers that exist, I don't fault you for wanting out. There are dangers, but I can tell you first hand, the dangers in Chicago are on par with Monterrey. I am not going to cancel my trips to Chicago for business, and I will not be canceling any trips to return here for pleasure based on a level of danger that has simply not escalated to the level that is represented by some. If and when I start to see the danger level approaching that degree of severity, I'll be the first one to opt out, and the first one to reveal it here.

[QUOTE=Chester Boy]Unspongebob, please read my first post in this thread where I said that I don't recommend coming down to Monterrey at this moment and that I'm personally working to get transferred somewhere else. I will gladly accept your apology for jumping to conclusions.

But let's keep this civil; credibility as to the relative dangers of Monterrey can easily be attained by checking Google News. As I said, if you STILL want to come down to Monterrey, then I stand by what I said, but I understand that personal tastes will differ.

Going to a high-end massage parlor (and I'll not name names since I may get accused of being the owner. LOL) will cost you around 2K for the hour and the girl will be smoking hot. Go to a strip club and you could easily blow that 2k before you really find a girl of your choosing. And if you DO find the right girl, by the time you haggle with the bar fine and salida price, pay for drinks, privados, etc., the price will greatly exceed the 2k. And, anyway, for my tastes bar girls are too run-down and tired looking, but each his own.

Personally, I prefer walking into a clean MP, paying my money and getting my action without any hassle and, certainly, that would be preferable if I were only in town for a couple of days.

Like I said, tastes may differ, but I want my action without all the hassle and nastiness of having to step in other guys' jizz as I get a privado. Maybe that's your thing. Good for you.

And, really, how are we to know whether a story is unsubstantiated or not? Are we to take Monterreydude's word for it? Or are we to listen to him because you, another anonymous person on a message board, vouch for him? I don't know you or him from Adam.

Personally, I want to hear all stories that may concern my safety and then I'll decide what to believe.[/QUOTE]

I checked your pics out of the Givenchy murders, and they are of the outside of the building. Oh well, don't mean to be morbid, but I flipped anxiously over to the pics section thinking I was going to see the gory details. After all, the newspapers in Monterrey, and especially the television stations, are not known for censoring their videos and photos. So, I thought you'd have something juicy posted. That's one thing about Monterrey, they do not sugar coat the news. So, had El Infinito been the subject of a shoot-out, as infamous as El Infinito is, it would have surely made the front pages, and it would have been the feature story on the evening news broadcasts.

The media has absolutely no shame. Look how quickly they jumped on the accusations about Parthenon hiring under-aged girls. A totally and completely false accusation. But, look, Parthenon is totally out of business now as a result of the newspapers sensationalizing those false accusations. I can only imagine the uproar had a shooting occurred in El Infinito. The media would have milked it for all that it's worth. And, we better hope nothing happens in those bars, especially after all of our nae saying. Because, literally, with the Givenchy murders practically back to back with any future similar kind of incident, and if something like that were to actually occur at El Infinito, or any of the other bars, it could very likely mark the end of an era in Monterrey, and quite possibly the end of the bar scene as we know it.

So, that's why hyping the dangers beyond the facts is not helpful to our hobby. We better make sure that what's posted here isn't an over-reaction to the reality on the ground. It doesn't take much for the news media to latch onto gossip and false accusation, just as they did with Parthenon, squeezing every drop of opportunity out of a set of circumstances they created in order to profit from newspaper and advertising sales.

You all know that's what happened with the Parthenon fiasco right? The accusations originated on a Mexican website similar to this one, and the reporters created their own story after having read about it there. They visited the bar, and planted the seeds of accusation. They manufactured their own news because some poster mentioned his "opinions" without actually substantiating the reality.

So, while it might appear that we are advocating for El Infinito, and the lower end bars, we are actually only interested in preserving the venue, the entire venue, massage parlors, escort services, and bars. Because, if the media starts to blow things out of proportion, it's only a matter of time until the "do gooders" are successful in putting a stop to our hobby being so easy to enjoy.

That's why we're defensive when we hear things related here that we know are untrue, and why we are so focused on discrediting false accusations. It isn't that we're looking for a fight, or that we're trying to be difficult, or that we're trying to talk trash to anyone. It's simply self preservation of our hobby that's at stake, and it's in everyone's best interest not to hype things beyond the reality.


[QUOTE=Monterreydude]Harsh against Marius???
Anonymous????
Dozens of Americans kidnapped in Monterrey????

Hell, you really don't know at all what you are posting.

You don't like Mexico señor???... may I suggest relocating to National Socialist Arizona.

By the way Chester, I go to Reforma street to buy my bootleg movies... and I don't fear for my life for one second.
Why? Cause I know my city, I know where to go and where not to go.
Where to mess and where not to mess.

By the way, why are YOU posting here???
This forum is for mongers, not for antimongers.
I don't think you know one single escort from a service or one single club girl from a SC.

Chester, you don't know one iota of soccer. You should go to Prestige SC at 1:30 pm (5 star club, more to your social level) for lunch and see if it's devoid of soccer fans.

And Iam not harsh against Marius, Iam just saying that he is just passing along his BS.

This is my serious BS: If there has been a shooting at Infinito, why is it that NO ONE has posted the newpaper article???? Or the pictures???
Look at the pictures section, I just posted the pics from the Oct-16-2008 killings at Givenchy taken from elnorte.com. And I totally swear that event did happen on that said date. No BS from me.
I play it FAIR AND SQUARE.
This is my posting on that event on or around those dates:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=803291&postcount=1592[/url]

I never EVER hide things from the mongers.
And SHAME on anyone that says I do.[/QUOTE]

I Live here and there's no anonymous person on a message board who is going to pull the wool over my eyes. Of all my business associates, at least 90% of them have been the victim of some sort of extortion. I've known people who have had to move because of the heat generated by the thugs who roam the streets as complete untouchables.

To compare Monterrey and the Mexican Drug Wars to the crime in cities like Chicago is ridiculous. In the US, there are safe zones where you are 100% safe with crime relegated to certain zones. I grew up in suburban Detroit and never even saw a crime until I started going into the city to "hobby." Can you imagine some thugs storming a Holiday Inn in downtown Chicago, kicking down doors and kidnapping guests? Ridiculous. Or maybe you guys would like to make us believe that this was a lie or that we'd be safe because those guys weren't looking specifically for us?

In the US, you generally need to find the thugs to rob you. In Monterrey, they come looking for you. And don't tell me otherwise because I just had to find a new secretary because the old one quit when she got a call insisting that we pay 50k if we want to stay healthy and in business.

So, Monterreydude, you can take a turd and insist that it's a lollipop all you want. I'm not a sex tourist coming in for a couple of days. I live here and I know that you know the dangers. Street crime is avoidable if you know where you're going, but the cartels can touch everything.

This is not an attack on Mexico or its people as you seem to think it is. It's not an attack on mongering. And as far as not knowing any girls? LOL. I'd put my crew against yours any day of the week.

My only point is that everyone, like myself and Marius, should feel comfortable in posting what they hear in an effort to keep this an open exchange of views and opinions. The stories can be rebuked if they're not true, but being rebuked is one thing and being attacked, personally, is quite another. This is a forum about mongering in Monterrey, in all aspects. Not just about mongering at El Infinito and the rest of us be damned.

Monterreydude, your intense, seething anger at differing points of view leads one to believe that you have an agenda, sir. A simple debate is like this: "No, the story can't be true because of these reasons..." Not, "NO! You know nothing! You are trying to sabotage El Infinito!" That makes a reasonable person scratch their head and wonder about you. Hmmmmmmm.

But, regardless, it's obvious that I, as well as anyone else with a differing viewpoint, will be shouted down here no matter what we say. I have no desire to get in a pissing war with a bully. Maybe you're using the role model of the Mexican media which is for sale and dedicated to distracting attention from the real issues. So,this is your forum again. I will look for another site where differing opinions are actually encouraged and embraced.

My last word (and this has been my point all along): Be careful and avoid being a statistic by not putting yourself in dangerous places. Going to the low-end clubs is like walking into a pit of vipers and assuming that just because you walk among them you are immune to the venom.

[quote=monterreydude]harsh against marius?

anonymous?

dozens of americans kidnapped in monterrey

hell, you really don't know at all what you are posting.

you don't like mexico señor?. may i suggest relocating to national socialist arizona.

by the way chester, i go to reforma street to buy my bootleg movies. and i don't fear for my life for one second.

why? cause i know my city, i know where to go and where not to go.

where to mess and where not to mess.

by the way, why are you posting here?

this forum is for mongers, not for antimongers.

i don't think you know one single escort from a service or one single club girl from a sc.

chester, you don't know one iota of soccer. you should go to prestige sc at 1:30 pm (5 star club, more to your social level) for lunch and see if it's devoid of soccer fans.

and i am not harsh against marius, i am just saying that he is just passing along his bs.

this is my serious bs: if there has been a shooting at infinito, why is it that no one has posted the newpaper article? or the pictures?

look at the pictures section, i just posted the pics from the oct-16-2008 killings at givenchy taken from elnorte.com. and i totally swear that event did happen on that said date. no bs from me.

i play it fair and square.

this is my posting on that event on or around those dates:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php? p=803291&postcount=1592[/url]

i never ever hide things from the mongers.

and shame on anyone that says i do.[/quote]wow. you now have the dubious distinction of probably being the only person to condescendingly put down two forum members in the same post.

are you going to make me come back to this thread and throw down some more cans of whoop-ass?

in my opinion, there probably wasn't a shooting at infinito. however, i personally knew and met a girl who was 15-years-old that was working at the partenon last year, as i was seeing her aunt(who also worked at the partenon) outside the club for a brief time. she proclaimed to me that there were others that were **** at the club and that's as far as the conversation went. also, there was another club that was busted approximately the same time for **** girls. the relevancy of this is that you guys don't know everything that is happening in monterrey and others should be welcomed to post their information here without being undermined by the lenny and squiggy show.

you guys with your egos and mouths. you just never learn.

One of the things that I like about of the sex scene in Monterrey is that there are different types of markets for every type of costumer whether you like more Strip Club girls, Massage Parlor girls, Swinger girls or Escort girls (my personal preference but I do not mind having fun with Teiboleras or Massage Parlors girls when I want to diversify the options). You do not have to stick to only one specific type of girl or market orientated segment as you have various different types of pussies and asses for every type of budget and customer preference. Such situation it is not presented in other large Mexican cites such as Guadalajara where the local sex market there is almost nonexistent despite having some of the most hottest girls in the western hemisphere and when you are horny whether you have money or not you will end probably watching porn and masturbating yourself instead of getting your brains fucked out by a hot smoking local girl. As USB mentioned I do not want things to get out of the actual proportion by some sensationalist non professional journalists or government owned agencies (from both sides of the border) as I do not want Monterrey to become in anyway similar regarding the sex market the way Guadalajara (or any major US city) is right now.

old news.
precocious, partenon has been shut down forever since november 22, 2009.
you are late here with that piece of news.
unspongebob told us about that one.

"in my opinion, there probably wasn't a shooting at infinito"

in your opinion??? facts precocious, if you want to whoop my ass, you need facts.
it's not an "opinon", it didn't happen. now, that's a fact.
besides, you haven't been inside a sc in ages.
only mps, remember? you prefer them over scs.
remember how you used to post tidbits and kept all pertinent info for yourself???
and "ass-whooped" me when i told the mongers the pertinent info???
the part you didn't want no one to know???
like location and address?????
remember the miroslava mp thing we had like a year ago????

ps: "you now have the dubious distinction of probably being the only person to condescendingly put down two forum members in the same post."
make it three. different posts, but three.

pps: please post something relevant on your forté, mp's.



[quote=precocious one]wow. you now have the dubious distinction of probably being the only person to condescendingly put down two forum members in the same post.

are you going to make me come back to this thread and throw down some more cans of whoop-ass?

in my opinion, there probably wasn't a shooting at infinito. however, i personally knew and met a girl who was 15-years-old that was working at the partenon last year, as i was seeing her aunt(who also worked at the partenon) outside the club for a brief time. she proclaimed to me that there were others that were **** at the club and that's as far as the conversation went. also, there was another club that was busted approximately the same time for **** girls. the relevancy of this is that you guys don't know everything that is happening in monterrey and others should be welcomed to post their information here without being undermined by the lenny and squiggy show.

you guys with your egos and mouths. you just never learn.[/quote]

I realized during the morning hours, Chester, for a man that lives in Monterrey, you had no idea about Givenchy.
You know Givenchy???? The post I wrote in 2008???

I mean, you live here and didn't have a clue that 3 soldiers were massacered inside Givenchy???
You didn't see the video on TV with the soldieres bloodied and sprawled on Givenchy's number #1 stage????
I mean, you LIVE HERE and didn't see our adorable sensationalist TV news broadcasts, nor sensationalist El Sol tabloid or "amarillista" El Norte???

If you didn't... well, I guess you are poorly informed.
Cause I did, and I posted it.

I also noticed reading between lines that you are trying to evade the fact and it's quite obvious... you could have used it as an example of the violence here in Monterrey but you didn't and still haven't.

Am begining to believe that you know nothing of what really goes on in Monterrey.
I could even dare say that you are not here at all.

Ok Chester, pop quiz: for a man, and a quote copy/paste "I'm an American working in Monterrey and I've been living here for 6 years"... you still haven't used some examples of the violence going down here that have really affected the night life in the city.

Name them.


Ps: Crime in Chicago... did you know that several Illinois state legislators wanted the National Guard as peacemakers in Chicago cause violence is almost overwhelming the police force there???
I don't think so, you don't know anything that goes on.
Read the news...

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/guns-the-guard-and-guts_b_557376.html[/url]

PPS: You also evaded my "dozens and dozens of Americans kidnapped" and did a 180 degree turn into "90% have been extorted".
90%... May I ask in what way??? Please state it.
I mean, it is common to all of us, with in that "90%" margin.


[QUOTE=Chester Boy]I Live here and there's no anonymous person on a message board who is going to pull the wool over my eyes. Of all my business associates, at least 90% of them have been the victim of some sort of extortion. I've known people who have had to move because of the heat generated by the thugs who roam the streets as complete untouchables.

To compare Monterrey and the Mexican Drug Wars to the crime in cities like Chicago is ridiculous. In the US, there are safe zones where you are 100% safe with crime relegated to certain zones. I grew up in suburban Detroit and never even saw a crime until I started going into the city to "hobby." Can you imagine some thugs storming a Holiday Inn in downtown Chicago, kicking down doors and kidnapping guests? Ridiculous. Or maybe you guys would like to make us believe that this was a lie or that we'd be safe because those guys weren't looking specifically for us?

In the US, you generally need to find the thugs to rob you. In Monterrey, they come looking for you. And don't tell me otherwise because I just had to find a new secretary because the old one quit when she got a call insisting that we pay 50k if we want to stay healthy and in business.

So, Monterreydude, you can take a turd and insist that it's a lollipop all you want. I'm not a sex tourist coming in for a couple of days. I live here and I know that you know the dangers. Street crime is avoidable if you know where you're going, but the cartels can touch everything.

This is not an attack on Mexico or its people as you seem to think it is. It's not an attack on mongering. And as far as not knowing any girls? LOL. I'd put my crew against yours any day of the week.

My only point is that everyone, like myself and Marius, should feel comfortable in posting what they hear in an effort to keep this an open exchange of views and opinions. The stories can be rebuked if they're not true, but being rebuked is one thing and being attacked, personally, is quite another. This is a forum about mongering in Monterrey, in all aspects. Not just about mongering at El Infinito and the rest of us be damned.

Monterreydude, your intense, seething anger at differing points of view leads one to believe that you have an agenda, sir. A simple debate is like this: "No, the story can't be true because of these reasons..." Not, "NO! You know nothing! You are trying to sabotage El Infinito!" That makes a reasonable person scratch their head and wonder about you. Hmmmmmmm.

But, regardless, it's obvious that I, as well as anyone else with a differing viewpoint, will be shouted down here no matter what we say. I have no desire to get in a pissing war with a bully. Maybe you're using the role model of the Mexican media which is for sale and dedicated to distracting attention from the real issues. So,this is your forum again. I will look for another site where differing opinions are actually encouraged and embraced.

My last word (and this has been my point all along): Be careful and avoid being a statistic by not putting yourself in dangerous places. Going to the low-end clubs is like walking into a pit of vipers and assuming that just because you walk among them you are immune to the venom.[/QUOTE]

that parthenon accusation is bs, plain and simple. all the girls i knew at parthenon, after it was closed, were all legally working in other bars immediately, in bars all around parthenon. in fact, they were working in other bars owned by parthenon. the authorities were all over the bars after that incident was blown out of proportion by the newspapers and parthenon was closed down, and especially the other bars owned by parthenon. the authorities were hard on all the bars after that incident, making sure all the girls were legal. and, all of the girls working at parthenon, the ones that all look like they are 15 years old, were still working, and are still working to this day.

the reality about parthenon is this...just so you know. the schtick that many of the young girls like using is the "i am ****d" schtick. when the reporter visited parthenon from the newspaper, he asked if he could get an ****d girl. the girl that they brought him played the role. the reality is, she was not, after all, after her id card was checked, ****d. so, whatever you were told i have been told by them many times. "i am only 15 years old, etc..." well, sorry to break it to you, but the girls were all of legal age, then, and now, and they've been working in the other bars ever since, their ids checked scrupulously by the authorities many times over since parthenon closed.

and, just so you know, parthenon was shut down on a technical violation relating to their licensing, a violation that was unrelated to girls working ****d, not because the authorities were able to prove that girls were working ****d. and, just so you know, partenon reopened again after the licensing issues were corrected, just a few months after their closing. they did not remain open because by the time of their reopening, they had re-assigned all their girls to other bars, and they no longer had a decent line-up of girls. they were their old former lousy self, and could not sustain their business. so, they voluntarily closed.

certainly, there are incidents of ****d girls working in monterrey. to believe otherwise would be naive. but, there is not a wholesale hiring of them by the bars with specific intent to do so, as the news media was attempting to portray, nor was parthenon engaged in that practice.

what was the name of the other bar that was shut down? extasis was closed for a while, but not because of any violation. they were sold to new owners and are open again, but i believe under a different name. and, were they ever able to prove that the girls were ****d that were working in any of these bars? no...

were they shut down for some other technical violation, just as parthenon was, ostensibly to calm the storm created by the newspaper reporting? all the bars came under scrutiny by the authorities at that time as they were attempting to appear they were doing something about the newspaper's outrage, which is why parthenon was closed down on a technicality.

and, there was not a shooting at el infinito. your comment that it "probably" didn't happen is simply a denial of the facts.

how can our posting the facts be construed as egotistical? just because we take issue with something being posted here as fact, something that is not true, something we know is false, and pointing it out, we are egotistical? then, when we point out that something is false, we are accused that we are not plugged into what is going on. that simply isn't logical? we did not even take issue with marius himself, but simply disputed the story he was hearing from some girl(s). it was marius that insisted the story was true when we knew it was not.

and, i live here too precocious, and so does monterreydude. so, we have our opinion of what is happening, and you have yours. i can tell you this much from my personal association with monterreydude, he is far more connected in monterrey than you, me, and all the rest of the posters here put together. if you really knew him personally, and you understood the extent of his connections, connections beyond the world of scs, mps, etc... you would feel like a complete and total fool in having any doubts about whom is plugged into what is going on and who isn't.

and, with regard to your "whoop ass" comment, we do not, nor have we ever abused other members with your same acumen. we don't call others condescending, we do not threaten them with a "whoop assing," we do not insult others by calling them names, ie:the lenny and squigy comment. our comments are made with respect for other members, and not abusive. we do comment with firm rebuttal when we know certain things are not true...period.

there have been others that persist in their violations of forum rules by making their comments personal and insulting. they are no longer with us as a result. i just love having lots of ammo, and i know you can not help yourself.


[quote=precocious one]wow. you now have the dubious distinction of probably being the only person to condescendingly put down two forum members in the same post.

are you going to make me come back to this thread and throw down some more cans of whoop-ass?

in my opinion, there probably wasn't a shooting at infinito. however, i personally knew and met a girl who was 15-years-old that was working at the partenon last year, as i was seeing her aunt(who also worked at the partenon) outside the club for a brief time. she proclaimed to me that there were others that were **** at the club and that's as far as the conversation went. also, there was another club that was busted approximately the same time for **** girls. the relevancy of this is that you guys don't know everything that is happening in monterrey and others should be welcomed to post their information here without being undermined by the lenny and squiggy show.

you guys with your egos and mouths. you just never learn.[/quote]

I wish some of you could watch the evening local news in Monterrey; Complete and utter chaos. Just stay away if you can't speak decent spanish. An example of how bad it has gotten; I am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions; something that has never happend to me before in this city (Everyone in the City is just scared). Then it seems that the whole city population just talks about how bad the violence is getting.

AmigoMio true or false; the Cartel Del Golfo, Police and Mexican Military have joined forces to kill Zetas. TRUE

For those who don't who the Zetas are; Zetas are a crime empire that decided to take full control of the drug trade, but underestimated the power of the Cartel Del Gulfo and are locked in a brutal war where beheadings and shoot-outs in the streets of Monterrey are common place.

AmigoMio true of false; Infinto pays there own bar fine to the Zetas as protection/extortion. TRUE

And this is the problem with Infinto and all the downtown area bars. They pay there fees to the Zetas. The Cartel Del Golfo are super brutal; and one can only assume that it's just a matter of time.

Another factor is just the regular street thugs that seem to crawl out of the wood work; In Monterrey it's way worse than any American City. This is what SpongeBob doesn't get about crime in America vs. Mexico. Crime is not reported in Monterrey. Only a small percentage is reported due to threats to the News media. I can only imagine what occurs in Monterrey on a daily basis due to it's extreme poverty and scarce city resources for such a huge population.

I also don't care who comes or not; this is just a warning to people on this board of the real danger in Monterrey. Hell; I've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police and it occurs with great frequency.

BTW; I never liked the Escorts or High end massage parlors. I have no intrest in promoting any businesses in Monterrey.come to Monterrey if you like gambling with your life. I often think about my trips to Monterrey. Why do I put myself in harms way? And the answer is simple; I am a sex addict.

Marius, I remember hearing these same kinds of warnings from other people when I first began going to other parts of the world a number of years ago. Had I succumbed to the fear, I would never had enjoyed, as much, the last ten to fifteen years of my life. There is a price to be paid for the kind of freedom we choose to engage in. The degree of enjoyment you experience in life, and even your own affluence with respect to finances, is directly tied to the risk one is prepared to engage in. So, if you aren't an adventurous and independently minded individual, then I recommend that the reader stay home, where you will be comparatively slightly safer, ever so slightly, not totally safe, just a little safer.

Marius, this forum is not Foder's, or any other travel forum designed for the casual sightseeing traveler. It is a mongering forum. All of the destinations of the world that are considered worth traveling to for our hobby would be considered, by the average home body type, to be "dangerous."

I recall the warnings about the government unrest in Thailand, something that is developing there even to this day, the terrorism of Indonesia, mainly in Jakarta and Bali. I remember the warnings I heard with respect to the Philippines. I recall the warnings about Columbia, and also Brazil. Interestingly, these destinations are all considered the epitome of mongering perfection with respect to venue selection. One can travel to Wichita or Boise for mongering perfection, but I assure you that you'll be very disappointed.

I recall arriving in all of the notorious destinations, all but Brazil, but it is most definitely on my agenda, all of them previously represented as having varying levels of danger and violence. I experienced no violence, no criminal acts, and absolutely no problems. I did not even see anything that caused me to have concern for my own safety. But, obviously the dangers did exist.

So, yes, your warnings are prudent. Our hobby does have risks. I know that the gang violence is real, but while the people of Monterrey certainly discuss the violence between the Cartels, there is not a palpable fear here like what you describe. The people are mindful of their surroundings, understand that there is an element of danger, etc..., but life is going on in Monterrey on a relatively routine basis otherwise. The streets are filled with people...and there is absolutely no difference in the way they go about their everyday lives. I mean, it is not Beirut, with bombs going off in the streets, the airports, etc...There is a danger level associated with possibly being caught in the crossfire between the gangs, but generally it is between gangs. The kidnappings are for the most part related to gang member activity, and the average citizen, uninvolved in gang activity, is virtually ignored with respect to any intent to involve them.

And, when you say you wish everyone could watch the news in Monterrey. The news media in Monterrey is shameless. They only want to sell newspapers and television advertising, to increase readership, etc...It is all about money. I would not take everything you see on the news in Monterrey as particularly independent and unbiased reporting. They have one agenda, to SELL, period. And, they create much of the hysteria that drives not only your own fears, but the hysteria that is reported to other parts of the world with respect to what is really going on here.

With regard to the Holiday Inn kidnappings, ALL of them were Mexican Nationals, and from Mexico city, obviously a gang related issue, and something that was planned well in advance when you consider the level of sophistication that was demonstrated.

And, by the way, they would never have gotten away with such ridiculous tactics in the USA. The (50) or more thugs that stopped traffic to impede the police response would have been gunned down by a pistol packing public, solely on the aggravated outrage of law abiding motorists having their road trips delayed, and rightfully so.

I will never forget coming into Monterrey amid all the reports about the levels of violence, especially the reports that are saturated within the USA, and frankly, hyped in our own media purely for monetary purposes as well, reports about Mexico's level of violence, and while I accept that the levels of violence exists, I remember also noticing how routine things are on the ground in Monterrey. So, you have to factor it all into a total assessment before just solely considering the violence. You have to also factor in the routine of normalcy that exists here.

Yes, Mexico, and the world, is generally a more dangerous place than the USA. The difference, frankly, is by US constitutional law, American Citizens have a right to protect our own lives, and are not subject to the government doing it for them, except, for example, within the Peoples Republic of Illinois, and Chicago specifically, where you can not protect your own life by carrying a weapon of your own. Thus, they have the crime and violence level that is indicative of Chicago.

In other venues where Americans are permitted to carry weapons to fight these kinds of attacks, the crime rates are quite low, the gang activity is kept contained between gang members, and the public environments are quite safe. Why, because the criminal element, the gangs, and dare I say it, even the government, is subject to the will of the people. The people can bite back when the criminals/gangs threaten them. And, the criminals and gangs are not free to assault a defenseless public. They are subject to potential death on the spot from law abiding American citizens they target, or from American citizens coming to the immediate aid of their unarmed innocent, or guilty, victims.

No stopping traffic on the highways to rob people like in Monterrey. If that happened in the USA, the perpetrators would be killed by a barrage of gun fire coming directly from their intended victims. No kidnapping people, no robbing them, no assaulting them, no nothing...you do it and you die. That's a pretty good deterrent. Commit a violent crime against the innocent and you risk death, verdad?

The statistical fighting between the criminals and between the gang members would remain static, but the assaults against the innocent, and the criminal element and gangs targeting the public at large would cease under threat of immediate execution from their intended victims.

Mexico is politically far left of the USA, where the rights of the individual are less important than the rights of the State. The people of Mexico come from a back ground of socialistic, welfare dependence. They are indoctrinated to have a dependence, historically first upon the Church, and now, these days, upon the State. The people of Mexico are conditioned to think that way, hoping in exchange for their freedom, to be taken care of by the State, mostly because the State offers them little opportunity for prosperity, and it could possibly even be charged, purposefully doing so to maintain power over the people. People with that mind set are simply not open to the independence of self reliance, and they can not fathom being responsible for their own destiny. Historically, the citizenry of the USA, on the other hand, survives from a long line of very independent thinkers; ie: our forefathers in the USA.

The State is responsible for the safety of it's citizens, but unless the citizens hold the power, and take responsibility for their own circumstances by controlling the dominance of their own government regulation intended to dampen their independence, they will continue to be the victims of violence, graft, corruption, etc...There is one solution to Mexico violence. Return the power to the people of Mexico, permit them to defend their own lives, and watch how quickly the Zetas and Cartel de Golfo, and their own government come into line.

When you travel outside the USA, or in Illinois, California, New York, Wisconsin, or Massachusetts, and I say this with a certain measure of exaggeration and humor mixed with truth, you take your personal safety into your own hands because you are depending on the incompetence, and the self interest of government officials for your own safety.

That's what government everywhere, in all countries, want. Governments, and their self serving career politicians and officials, want you to be totally and completely dependent upon them, at their whimsical mercy, so they are able to dictate the terms of your existence for their own self interested power grabbing benefit.

As a result of an increasing ignorance of history with respect to our own citizens, and the influence of the facists, we in the USA are now moving incrementally toward Facism, with government and large corporations joining forces to assail our individual rights and freedoms. But, fortunately for us, we have the influence of our historical upbringing to squash their attempts. But, in Mexico, the people are ill equipped to understand the cost and benefits of independence, nor are they conditioned to understand their own responsibility that comes with sustaining true freedom.

This, my friends, is the root of the problem in Mexico, and the World. Sorry for the rant, but it is the truth, verdad?

[QUOTE=Marius 67]I wish some of you could watch the evening local news in Monterrey; Complete and utter chaos. Just stay away if you can't speak decent spanish. An example of how bad it has gotten; I am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions; something that has never happend to me before in this city (Everyone in the City is just scared). Then it seems that the whole city population just talks about how bad the violence is getting.

AmigoMio true or false; the Cartel Del Golfo, Police and Mexican Military have joined forces to kill Zetas. TRUE

For those who don't who the Zetas are; Zetas are a crime empire that decided to take full control of the drug trade, but underestimated the power of the Cartel Del Gulfo and are locked in a brutal war where beheadings and shoot-outs in the streets of Monterrey are common place.

AmigoMio true of false; Infinto pays there own bar fine to the Zetas as protection/extortion. TRUE

And this is the problem with Infinto and all the downtown area bars. They pay there fees to the Zetas. The Cartel Del Golfo are super brutal; and one can only assume that it's just a matter of time.

Another factor is just the regular street thugs that seem to crawl out of the wood work; In Monterrey it's way worse than any American City. This is what SpongeBob doesn't get about crime in America vs. Mexico. Crime is not reported in Monterrey. Only a small percentage is reported due to threats to the News media. I can only imagine what occurs in Monterrey on a daily basis due to it's extreme poverty and scarce city resources for such a huge population.

I also don't care who comes or not; this is just a warning to people on this board of the real danger in Monterrey. Hell; I've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police and it occurs with great frequency.

BTW; I never liked the Escorts or High end massage parlors. I have no intrest in promoting any businesses in Monterrey.come to Monterrey if you like gambling with your life. I often think about my trips to Monterrey. Why do I put myself in harms way? And the answer is simple; I am a sex addict.[/QUOTE]

I don't get this post.

Of course everyone can follow what goes on in Monterrey.

[url]http://multimedios.tv/videos/envivo[/url]

This is a live streaming video of local channel 12.
Newscasts at 6 am 12 noon and 7 pm (central time).

Guys, be my guest. Watch the newscasts.

----------

Marius says: "I am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions"

This is ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL BS.... plainly spoken.
I laughed reading this part.
Marius, you are not the only monger from this and other forums coming to Monterrey. You are not the only WASPish (sorry my friends for the term) looking guy in Monterrey and Iam not talking Americans, am talking locals from Monterrey
Seems, like I pointed out to Chester, seems as if you have never been to Monterrey.
You are way out of line here... well, not way out of line, you are denoting ignorance.

-----------

Marius says: "True or false; the Cartel Del Golfo, Police and Mexican Military have joined forces to kill Zetas. TRUE"

Anyway, the answer to the question is "yes".

---------------------------------------------------

Marius says: "beheadings and shoot-outs in the streets of Monterrey are common place."

No beheadings at all have happened in Monterrey.
You have the link to the news webcast, check it out guys.

Shoot outs in the streets of Monterrey, yes, but in the PERIPHERY of the city, the outlying counties, and between the armed forces and the bad guys. Guess who gets the short end of the stick???
And even then limited things have happened, within the city, but nothing big in long long while.

-----------------------------------------------

Marius says: "true of false; Infinto pays there own bar fine to the Zetas as protection/extortion."

Not any more. The Zetas are gone from the dowtown area. Anyway, drug selling still goes on as regular as it occurs at any Russian controled SC or bar on the East Coast or Chinese mafia controled bars on the West coast back in the USA.

What is it Marius??? surprised drugs are sold where prostitution goes on???
You see Marius, before, it was a "I think they sell" abstract idea even when everything was in plain view.
Whole populus thought drus were only sold on the low end, low class areas.
Now, with all the rucus going on, everyone is "surprised" that drugs are sold EVERYWHERE, even at the Barrio Antiguo and and the high end clubs at the Colonia del Valle distric.

--------------------------------------------------

Marius says: "And this is the problem with Infinto and all the downtown area bars. They pay there fees to the Zetas. The Cartel Del Golfo are super brutal; and one can only assume that it's just a matter of time."

REALLY!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!! I been scammed!!!!!!
I thought I was at Disneyland for the past 30 years of local mongering!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Marius says: "Crime is not reported in Monterrey. Only a small percentage is reported due to threats to the News media"

You really haven't watched the news casts... haven't you???
Nor read the newspapers??????
Why do you think we know what goes on around the city???
Via a crystal ball????
Facebook, Twitter... the ISG????

--------------------------------------------------------------

Marius says: "Hell; I've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police and it occurs with great frequency."

Guys, have any of you been robbed by the police????

--------------------------------------------------------------

Never mind the rest, am late to watch the US vs Ghana soccer game.
Am watching it at Infinito.








[QUOTE=Marius 67]I wish some of you could watch the evening local news in Monterrey; Complete and utter chaos. Just stay away if you can't speak decent spanish. An example of how bad it has gotten; I am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions; something that has never happend to me before in this city (Everyone in the City is just scared). Then it seems that the whole city population just talks about how bad the violence is getting.

AmigoMio true or false; the Cartel Del Golfo, Police and Mexican Military have joined forces to kill Zetas. TRUE

For those who don't who the Zetas are; Zetas are a crime empire that decided to take full control of the drug trade, but underestimated the power of the Cartel Del Gulfo and are locked in a brutal war where beheadings and shoot-outs in the streets of Monterrey are common place.

AmigoMio true of false; Infinto pays there own bar fine to the Zetas as protection/extortion. TRUE

And this is the problem with Infinto and all the downtown area bars. They pay there fees to the Zetas. The Cartel Del Golfo are super brutal; and one can only assume that it's just a matter of time.

Another factor is just the regular street thugs that seem to crawl out of the wood work; In Monterrey it's way worse than any American City. This is what SpongeBob doesn't get about crime in America vs. Mexico. Crime is not reported in Monterrey. Only a small percentage is reported due to threats to the News media. I can only imagine what occurs in Monterrey on a daily basis due to it's extreme poverty and scarce city resources for such a huge population.

I also don't care who comes or not; this is just a warning to people on this board of the real danger in Monterrey. Hell; I've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police and it occurs with great frequency.

BTW; I never liked the Escorts or High end massage parlors. I have no intrest in promoting any businesses in Monterrey.come to Monterrey if you like gambling with your life. I often think about my trips to Monterrey. Why do I put myself in harms way? And the answer is simple; I am a sex addict.[/QUOTE]

"i am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions"

i am light skinned, but dark hair, and i dress like crap, look like a complete and total gringo, sometimes even wearing short pants, a definite no no in latin american countries, one that will give you away as a dumb gringo every time. i don't care, it's hot, and comfort is king. anyway, i don't have any trouble getting a cab at all. i mean, well, i do have trouble if the cabs are full. but, then, everyone has trouble getting a cab if they're full. i also have trouble getting a cab in the rain. every cab is full when it rains in monterrey, so everyone has trouble getting a cab. i have trouble getting a cab very early in the morning, say between 3am and 5am. there just don't seem to be as many cabs out making their rounds during those hours, and it takes a little longer sometimes for one to come along.

"i've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police, and it occurs with great frequency."

in downtown monterrey there are cops every block or so at night. and, no, i have never, never, ever been stopped by them, or extorted, or anything, not in ten years of walking the streets of el centro, sometimes until 4am in the morning, alone, totally vulnerable to any of them that might have such a shake down in mind. and, i am quite obviously a gringo in appearance, ostensibly with money bulging from his pockets according to the stereotype. i stick out like a sore thumb. so, were this shake down issue to be common place, believe me, i would have experienced it in ten years. but, no, i have never had even the slightest contact initiated by the police.

now, of course, if you're driving a car, the transitos will shake you down whether you're a gringo or a mexican national. it happened to me once when i was driving my gf's car. they pulled me over and told me i was exceeding the speed limit, which i wasn't. they wanted me to pay 1000 pesos. i laughed at him, told him i had no money, and i told him to go ahead and write me a ticket, that i would just pay the fine. he let me go, no ticket, no further issue...i was let go easier, i might add, than i would have been released by the cops in the usa. i have seen my mexican friends stopped by transitos, and they've usually paid them 50 pesos when they hand them their driver's licenses. they were always on their way in less than 60 seconds.

frankly, i would rather bribe the transito than pay a fine for a speeding offense in the us. you see, in the us, we have speed traps that are designed as tax increases upon the public. where it would be customary to post a reasonable speed limit of say 45 mph, instead, the cities post them at 30mph and write tickets all day long because the lower posted speeds are ridiculously low, and they know they will be able to write speeding tickets there. frankly, i would rather donate 50 pesos (less than $5 us) to the local transito that can barely feed his family, rather than pay a $75 speeding ticket to help pay for the mayors new cadillac sedan, as city government in the us passes their little speed trap off as concern for public safety...yeah, sure, concerned for public safety, right.


[quote=monterreydude]i don't get this post.

of course everyone can follow what goes on in monterrey.

[url]http://multimedios.tv/videos/envivo[/url]

this is a live streaming video of local channel 12.
newscasts at 6 am 12 noon and 7 pm (central time).

guys, be my guest. watch the newscasts.

----------

marius says: "i am fairly light skinned, blond and dress well and was having trouble just getting a cab on several occasions"

this is absolute and total bs.... plainly spoken.
i laughed reading this part.
marius, you are not the only monger from this and other forums coming to monterrey. you are not the only waspish (sorry my friends for the term) looking guy in monterrey and iam not talking americans, am talking locals from monterrey
seems, like i pointed out to chester, seems as if you have never been to monterrey.
you are way out of line here... well, not way out of line, you are denoting ignorance.

-----------

marius says: "true or false; the cartel del golfo, police and mexican military have joined forces to kill zetas. true"

anyway, the answer to the question is "yes".

---------------------------------------------------

marius says: "beheadings and shoot-outs in the streets of monterrey are common place."

no beheadings at all have happened in monterrey.
you have the link to the news webcast, check it out guys.

shoot outs in the streets of monterrey, yes, but in the periphery of the city, the outlying counties, and between the armed forces and the bad guys. guess who gets the short end of the stick???
and even then limited things have happened, within the city, but nothing big in long long while.

-----------------------------------------------

marius says: "true of false; infinto pays there own bar fine to the zetas as protection/extortion."

not any more. the zetas are gone from the dowtown area. anyway, drug selling still goes on as regular as it occurs at any russian controled sc or bar on the east coast or chinese mafia controled bars on the west coast back in the usa.

what is it marius??? surprised drugs are sold where prostitution goes on???
you see marius, before, it was a "i think they sell" abstract idea even when everything was in plain view.
whole populus thought drus were only sold on the low end, low class areas.
now, with all the rucus going on, everyone is "surprised" that drugs are sold everywhere, even at the barrio antiguo and and the high end clubs at the colonia del valle distric.

--------------------------------------------------

marius says: "and this is the problem with infinto and all the downtown area bars. they pay there fees to the zetas. the cartel del golfo are super brutal; and one can only assume that it's just a matter of time."

really!!!!!!!! oh my god!!!!!!! i been scammed!!!!!!
i thought i was at disneyland for the past 30 years of local mongering!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
marius says: "crime is not reported in monterrey. only a small percentage is reported due to threats to the news media"

you really haven't watched the news casts... haven't you???
nor read the newspapers??????
why do you think we know what goes on around the city???
via a crystal ball????
facebook, twitter... the isg????

--------------------------------------------------------------

marius says: "hell; i've even heard stories of people getting robbed by police and it occurs with great frequency."

guys, have any of you been robbed by the police????

--------------------------------------------------------------

never mind the rest, am late to watch the us vs ghana soccer game.
am watching it at infinito.[/quote]

This is going nowhere. Monterreydude and Unspongebob are obviously never going to cop to the obvious danger here in Monterrey. Monterreydude is playing the role of hustler and Unspongebob, the wide-eyed tourist taken in by the local. You can't accept the dangers on one hand, as Unspongebob does, and then tell everyone that all is well. Enough with the deflections and head-burying. Monterrey is a damn dangerous place right now and it's at the hub of the drug war-and that's a fact that anyone without a vested interest or a gullible character would accept.

Simply put, if you want to downplay and ignore the obvious crime in Monterrey and the targeted, EXTREMELY gory nature of that crime, then do so at your own peril. I live here, watch the same newscasts and have 1st hand experience with these cartel scumbags. They will also downplay the dangers of Monterrey and exploit the tourists until the bucks start to run dry. Then, watch out! And the bucks are starting to run dry.

Like I said earlier, it's best NOT to tempt the hands of fate at this point in time. Stay away from the low-end bars. All the security they got for simple bar fights will quickly disappear when bullets start flying. The fact of the matter is that most American tourists avoid danger because they're in town for a relatively short period of time and aren't likely to be traced. Why the hell would any sane person want to deliver themselves right to where the criminals are?

Yeah, and maybe there will only be one such incident per year, but would you like to be there when it happens? Wouldn't it be better to be safely tucked away in your hotel room? Unless, of course, the cartel trash decides to invade some more hotels and pick up some more "goodies."

"You can't accept the dangers on one hand, as Unspongebob does, and then tell everyone that all is well."

First, I am not a "wide eyed tourist." I have traveled the entire world, and I can assess the level of violence I see in Monterrey from a much more experienced perspective than you seem to have. There are a number of prime mongering destinations that present much greater potential for violance perpetrated on the general public than Monterrey. I accept there are dangers in Monterrey, I just don't accept your conclusion that by visiting the clubs I am risking my safety any more than walking the streets.

Frankly, if you live here, I don't see how you can conclude that it's more dangerous in the bars. There have been NO recent incidents of extreme violence occurring in the bars, or in el centro per se. Just as Monterreydude reported, most incidents occur on the outskirts of the city. If you can provide specific details of recent incidents in the bars that can be substantiated beyond just making a statement that it's possible, then I will gladly accept your conclusions publicly within this forum once substantiated. If you can provide specific incidents of kidnappings, or hotel invasions, perpetrated on average locals or upon visiting tourists, then I will gladly join your cause. To my knowledge, watching the news just as you have, I see no evidence of it occurring.

I could be calling you alarmist, and accusing you of over-reacting, just as you accused me of being a "wide eyed tourist," even though I live here just as you do, and have considerable experience here just as you claim to. But, instead, I am reporting that there is danger, but that it's isolated, and that there is simply no substantiated focus upon tourists or, specifically, upon Norte Americanos.

The violence is between gang members. The gory component to the murders is meant to send a message between gang members and the cartels. So, there is no malice demonstrated toward the average Mexicano or Gringo, uninvolved in the drug trade. There is no statistical confirmation that the kidnappings that are taking place have any kind of extortion as their focus. The kidnappings conclude in the eventual murder of rival gang members, or others within the government and/or police departments, upon those that are engaged in some way, good or bad, with respect to the drug business, and these crimes are not randomly committed against innocents.

It seems to me that you're warning that we, as Gringos, or that the innocent locals, are the regular targets of the violence occurring in Monterrey, or that the average Mexicano, uninvolved in the drug trade, are the statistical victims of the violence that's occurring. That simply is not true. My point, therefore, is that since Gringos are not the focus of the violence in Monterrey, we are no more in danger than the public at large.

There is a very small incidents of the public at large getting "caught in the cross-fire" so to speak, and those incidents, I dare say, are less frequent than in the city of Chicago. Therefore, I must honestly say that I am not fearful that when I venture out onto the streets I will fall victim to the violence directed between gang members. I don't feel that way when I go out, and I don't feel that way in the bars. Frankly, within El Infinito, which I do not frequent for more than about ten minutes at a time, I feel comparatively safe at night compared to being on the street, and otherwise potentially subject to run-of-the-mill criminal activity.

I just don't have any statistical basis upon which to substantiate your concerns.

[QUOTE=Chester Boy]This is going nowhere. Monterreydude and Unspongebob are obviously never going to cop to the obvious danger here in Monterrey. Monterreydude is playing the role of hustler and Unspongebob, the wide-eyed tourist taken in by the local. You can't accept the dangers on one hand, as Unspongebob does, and then tell everyone that all is well. Enough with the deflections and head-burying. Monterrey is a damn dangerous place right now and it's at the hub of the drug war-and that's a fact that anyone without a vested interest or a gullible character would accept.

Simply put, if you want to downplay and ignore the obvious crime in Monterrey and the targeted, EXTREMELY gory nature of that crime, then do so at your own peril. I live here, watch the same newscasts and have 1st hand experience with these cartel scumbags. They will also downplay the dangers of Monterrey and exploit the tourists until the bucks start to run dry. Then, watch out! And the bucks are starting to run dry.

Like I said earlier, it's best NOT to tempt the hands of fate at this point in time. Stay away from the low-end bars. All the security they got for simple bar fights will quickly disappear when bullets start flying. The fact of the matter is that most American tourists avoid danger because they're in town for a relatively short period of time and aren't likely to be traced. Why the hell would any sane person want to deliver themselves right to where the criminals are?

Yeah, and maybe there will only be one such incident per year, but would you like to be there when it happens? Wouldn't it be better to be safely tucked away in your hotel room? Unless, of course, the cartel trash decides to invade some more hotels and pick up some more "goodies."[/QUOTE]

For someon living here, someone that has minimized the importance of the World Cup (everyone's going to be watching the Brazil-Chile game, even if Mexico is out of the Cup).... well, you are avoiding ALL of the question I made on my #2108 post.

Let me add some stuff her.
Monterrey is NOT the hub of the drug war. That would be the surrounding area near or at Miguel Alemen in direction of Reynosa.

What would be the "gory nature" of the crimes you mention?

Please, by all means tell us all about the "1st hand experience with these cartel scumbags."

Can you illustrate us with examples of the "All the security they got for simple bar fights will quickly disappear when bullets start flying."
Can you name places where "bullets start flying"???

I mean, you are an American living in Monterrey for 6 years now.




[QUOTE=Chester Boy]This is going nowhere. Monterreydude and Unspongebob are obviously never going to cop to the obvious danger here in Monterrey. Monterreydude is playing the role of hustler and Unspongebob, the wide-eyed tourist taken in by the local. You can't accept the dangers on one hand, as Unspongebob does, and then tell everyone that all is well. Enough with the deflections and head-burying. Monterrey is a damn dangerous place right now and it's at the hub of the drug war-and that's a fact that anyone without a vested interest or a gullible character would accept.

Simply put, if you want to downplay and ignore the obvious crime in Monterrey and the targeted, EXTREMELY gory nature of that crime, then do so at your own peril. I live here, watch the same newscasts and have 1st hand experience with these cartel scumbags. They will also downplay the dangers of Monterrey and exploit the tourists until the bucks start to run dry. Then, watch out! And the bucks are starting to run dry.

Like I said earlier, it's best NOT to tempt the hands of fate at this point in time. Stay away from the low-end bars. All the security they got for simple bar fights will quickly disappear when bullets start flying. The fact of the matter is that most American tourists avoid danger because they're in town for a relatively short period of time and aren't likely to be traced. Why the hell would any sane person want to deliver themselves right to where the criminals are?

Yeah, and maybe there will only be one such incident per year, but would you like to be there when it happens? Wouldn't it be better to be safely tucked away in your hotel room? Unless, of course, the cartel trash decides to invade some more hotels and pick up some more "goodies."[/QUOTE]