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[QUOTE=FernandoAlonso]Please, no names until expo has ended. You want these places keep open, do not talk about them. Regular members will know what you talk about (see the other recent post), first time visitors will have bad luck for now, but actually that is in their interest because the risk is currently just too high. Use PM for info, do not publish details publicely!
FA[/QUOTE]Noted; Discretion will be exercised !! Thanks FA
[QUOTE=Christopherd]Suggestion to Admin - clean up the thread of endless dumb questions AND endless RTFF posts. One has to scroll quite a long way back to get anything else.
I'm a visitor on this this thread and will do my homework before asking for advice. But I also see it from the other viewpoint. I'm mostly active on the Brasil forum. There, as here, there is so much to absorb. There are people who avoid saying anything to dumb queries. Or there's people who can be a bit rude. Or there's people who will occasionally [I]answer[/I] occasional dumb questions when they have time and inclination.
Look at it like this. You are a frequent world traveller, a reasonably experienced monger, and like to seek out new places to visit. How do you decide where to go? One way is to have a look at the activity on a particular forum & thread. Many of them however, are a bit like closed clubs where everyone talks the local lingo in the assumption that every reader knows what they're talking about. So it mostly serves to help people who don't need much help. If we expect people to RTFFs we at least need to make the FFs readable.
Often when I answer a newbie it's cos I know it will take him several hours of searching just to get a feel of a place, and the availability of accessible information written in a manner understandable to a newcomer.
If the visitor has to do that with forums of even half a dozen different countries, simultaneously spending a several hours working out usable flights and other requirements, he will give up on the obscure ones. If the object is to keep novices away of course, that's fine.
;) :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]
Well said.
I have RTFF (20 pages back) to find some decent information prior to my trip to Shanghai. No valuable info to be found. Only replies like "RTFF" or similar. I noticed when a newbie or any person asked any question, most likely the answer is RTFF. Is'nt the definition of a forum based on sharing information ?
Anyhow, I wont ask my question as I know what the answer will be like : RTFF !
I did'nt experienced this on other sub-forums such as the Indonesian, Thai, Philippine, Peruvian, Kenyan, Brazilian, you name it, ..... just here at the Shanghai forum.
Good that there are additional sources on nightlife in Shanghai.
If no newbies will/can get informed, this forum will be a boring source soon with just a handfull of mongerers that keep repeating the same stuff about the same establishments.
Well, I will travel to the hunting grounds of Shanghai anyway and express my experience broadly here upon my return. Being it positive or negative.
I believe it can be fun to check things out by myself on the spot.
No offense intended, period.
[QUOTE=Asianatic]Well said.
I have RTFF (20 pages back) to find some decent information prior to my trip to Shanghai. No valuable info to be found. Only replies like "RTFF" or similar. I noticed when a newbie or any person asked any question, most likely the answer is RTFF. Is'nt the definition of a forum based on sharing information?
Anyhow, I won't ask my question as I know what the answer will be like: RTFF!
I did'nt experienced this on other sub-forums such as the Indonesian, Thai, Philippine, Peruvian, Kenyan, Brazilian, you name it,. Just here at the Shanghai forum.
Good that there are additional sources on nightlife in Shanghai.
If no newbies will/can get informed, this forum will be a boring source soon with just a handfull of mongerers that keep repeating the same stuff about the same establishments.
Well, I will travel to the hunting grounds of Shanghai anyway and express my experience broadly here upon my return. Being it positive or negative.
I believe it can be fun to check things out by myself on the spot.
No offense intended, period.[/QUOTE]Just in case someone still has not understood this. Currently in Shanghai there is something called EXPO. This goes along with a high level of interest to show a good nice picture to the outside world. Our hobby is not included in this view. So we keep a low profile for good reason. And any newbie asking excuse the wording stupid questions could be LE.
And on this I had to go through 20 pages, when I first arrived here I read hundreds of pages and learned a lot. Later I discovered the search function, great for specific questions. And everyone asking, I am in Shanghai first time where are the girls, just does not deserve an answer. I never asked soemthing like that still took a long time until I got answers to some questions.
This coin has a few sides
Peace
FA
[QUOTE=Asianatic]Well said.
I have RTFF (20 pages back) to find some decent information prior to my trip to Shanghai. No valuable info to be found. Only replies like "RTFF" or similar. I noticed when a newbie or any person asked any question, most likely the answer is RTFF. Is'nt the definition of a forum based on sharing information ?
Anyhow, I wont ask my question as I know what the answer will be like : RTFF !
I did'nt experienced this on other sub-forums such as the Indonesian, Thai, Philippine, Peruvian, Kenyan, Brazilian, you name it, ..... just here at the Shanghai forum.
Good that there are additional sources on nightlife in Shanghai.
If no newbies will/can get informed, this forum will be a boring source soon with just a handfull of mongerers that keep repeating the same stuff about the same establishments.
Well, I will travel to the hunting grounds of Shanghai anyway and express my experience broadly here upon my return. Being it positive or negative.
I believe it can be fun to check things out by myself on the spot.
No offense intended, period.[/QUOTE]
I'm a long time SH resident and senior member here on ISG, and I will openly say I agree with you. I'm not at all offended by your post because you are simply saying what is starkly obviously true. Well said sir.
For some constructive help, I recommend you use the search function (which can be very helpful), and also check out AG's forum -- he eliminates wankers there. There is a lot of good info here, just clouded with a ton of totally useless (e.g. "RTFF"), redundant (though this is often without any ill-will but is highly prevalent on the SH forum), and self-serving crap. Note that I'm also saying there's a lot of GOOD info here -- so no need to shun the entire forum.
-B-
Agree with Bonzo and Asianatic, I am following several mongering forums on Shanghai (in different languages !) and noticed that the ISG Shanghai forum is quite 'agressive' to newbies or 'general' questions. Of course it is annoying when the same questions pop up again and again or very general ones like 'I will be in Shanghai on XXX, staying in XXXhotel, could you give me some advice etc..). Such questions show indeed unpreparedness or laziness and bother most members. When I started to follow this very informative forum (credit where it is due) I did quiet some back reading. Since I lived in Shanghai some 15 years ago, when things looked very different from todays' cosmopolitan atmosphere (!), I was interested how the mongering scene developed over time. Funny enough back then I did not monger, nor had my little spy-eye open for such places of ill repute :-). But now - older, sadder and wiser - is different. So I learned valuable things for this forum and hope to contribute in time as well. I do not wish to offend anyone, but also hope the general tone of conversation could be more brother-like and show respect to others. In the end we all share the same interest.
Thank you!
[QUOTE=Bonzo1]I'm a long time SH resident and senior member here on ISG, and I will openly say I agree with you. I'm not at all offended by your post because you are simply saying what is starkly obviously true. Well said sir.
For some constructive help, I recommend you use the search function (which can be very helpful), and also check out AG's forum -- he eliminates wankers there. There is a lot of good info here, just clouded with a ton of totally useless (e.g. "RTFF"), redundant (though this is often without any ill-will but is highly prevalent on the SH forum), and self-serving crap. Note that I'm also saying there's a lot of GOOD info here -- so no need to shun the entire forum.
-B-[/QUOTE]
Perhaps things will lighten up a little, now the censorship is lifted, the search buttons work again, and I assume we can expect some new blood on the forum from within Shanghai!
fz :-))
[QUOTE=Jon246]Back in Shanghai and it looks like most places still open fo biz. I spoke to some friends with contacts on the inside that say there will still be more crack downs because there have been a few cases of "lao wai" abusing the girls which then get reported to police and cause trouble for everyone. Stay cautious, and if you know of any of these lao wai, beat their asses cause they are really messing it up for the rest of us.
Jon[/QUOTE]I have often mentioned these sorry asses ruining it for everyone else. Hopefully, someone takes a cleaver to them before PSB gets involved and doomed it for everyone else.
To newbies, what ever info is given out now, it might not be current and up to date because of LE. Many places have been shutdown because of the Expo. Very few places are left for mongering. It's also extremely dangerous. It's not safe now. LE is also known to monitor this forum and other forums. Next, whatever info is given, is read by hundreds of people. The great Fire Wall of China is opened.
Look at Beijing for the last month. Many BBS, saunas and KTV are closed. Every single week things change so fast.
Just like when the Canton Fair starts in Southern China, the same thing happens. All these newbie asking for info and then disappearing when the Fair is over. They ruin things and disappear when it is over.
Suggest using the search forum first....then PM. Don't expect to get any replies if you are not a senior with creditability or someone that is not referred.
[QUOTE=Red Sun]If you not expert on Shanghai or not godfather then why you post in Shanghai or stop people post in Shanghai? Many people post a lot in Shanghai no information and make reading hard, one page full of posts no information.
AG? I know him many year ago when he living in Tokyo. He teach me how to play in Tokyo when I am small only 18. But long time no see him and no in touch with him. I think he never post anymore or not stay in Shanghai anymore? I post in his forum and hope he reply.
Thank you.[/QUOTE]
You have been a member since 2005 and only 10 post ?
I read one of your old post. In business don't expect every Chinese lady translators to act as erotic escort in China.
Since you know AG, send him a PM.
[QUOTE=Asianatic]I did'nt experienced this on other sub-forums such as the Indonesian, Thai, Philippine, Peruvian, Kenyan, Brazilian, you name it, ..... just here at the Shanghai forum.
[/QUOTE]
You have been a member since 2004. You have been to all these places and very little reports ( 57 ) , not much contribution. Now you want information from other members.
[QUOTE=Asianatic]
If no newbies will/can get informed, this forum will be a boring source soon with just a handfull of mongerers that keep repeating the same stuff about the same establishments.
.[/QUOTE]
Let me say that if the newbies RTFF indeed they are referred to the usual locations.
On the other hand, novelties get in too and RTFF helps in finding a new locations, freshly reported.
If the locations are always the same and repeated, fair enough, it means that it will not need too much time to RTFF.,
Either way, RTFF is a learning proces and one will find 80% of his answers replied, maybe even well elaborated than in one only report.
The fundamental issue that frustrates both those who ask questions and those who answer them is that a forum is not the ideal way to present information that most newbies are looking for. A forum has a conversational presentation that is great for discussing issues of the day but bad for sharing slowly changing data. Chronological organization buries things 20 pages back and there is no way do develop any kind of centralized consensus document.
It would be so much better to have a Wiki page for each destination and keep the forum for conversations. For an example see [url]http://wikitravel.org/en/Shanghai[/url].
[QUOTE=J Falcon]The fundamental issue that frustrates both those who ask questions and those who answer them is that a forum is not the ideal way to present information that most newbies are looking for. A forum has a conversational presentation that is great for discussing issues of the day but bad for sharing slowly changing data. Chronological organization buries things 20 pages back and there is no way do develop any kind of centralized consensus document.
It would be so much better to have a Wiki page for each destination and keep the forum for conversations. For an example see [url]http://wikitravel.org/en/Shanghai[/url].[/QUOTE]Never heard of the "report of dístiction" section. This is our China "wiki". When I was a newbie, I found all information in there. The normal section, I used for daily updates.
Try it out, it works.
Thomas Jefferson
[QUOTE=Weelock]You have been a member since 2004. You have been to all these places and very little reports ( 57 ) , not much contribution. Now you want information from other members.[/QUOTE]
I think you have not read my post in detail sir :
Well, I will travel to the hunting grounds of Shanghai anyway and express my experience broadly here upon my return. Being it positive or negative.
I believe it can be fun to check things out by myself on the spot.
I was'nt asking for information, I just rolled back 20 pages and did not found an answer. I said in my previous post that I wont ask it here because I know the answer will be : RTFF.
One of my MILF freebies is back in play and I am not in SH to service her.
She is now 44 but still looks damn good.
Any Senior, highly contributing members can PM me for her web site profile.
I post a couple of pix I took about 4 years ago
ES