Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

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THAI SOCIETY
The benefits of mixed marriages

Published on Apr 22, 2008

Thai women find security and comfort while farang men discover the joy that living with a large family can bring

Subhatra Bhumiprabhas

The Nation

The Cambodian Government recently suspended marriages between local women and foreigners after hearing from the International Organisation for Migration about the plight of women who migrate to their spouses' countries. But in Thailand, a migration of foreign or "farang" husbands to live in their Thai wives' rural villages in the northeastern provinces (Isaan region) has revealed other sides of cross-cultural marriages.

Most foreign husbands today know well that they are not married only to a Thai wife but also to her large family, senior anthropologist Suriya Smutkupt said. Suriya had talked to farang sons-in-law in Isaan province.

"I would like to hear the views of farang husbands as many studies already reflect Thai wives' perspectives of marrying foreigners," he said.

From 2005 to 2007, Suriya travelled intensively from his hometown in Chiang Mai province in the north to talk to farang husbands in villages in the northeastern provinces of Khon Kaen, Nakhon Rachasima (also known as Khorat) and Udon Thani.

"They told me their wives' large families gave them warmth that they could never find in their own countries," Suriya said.

Also, foreign sons-in-law of Isaan find all the conveniences of their home countries here and can stay connected to their friends and relatives via the Internet, he said.

Suriya spoke to 34 men from Austria, Belgium, England, France, Germany, Switzer-land, Sweden, the Netherlands and the United States.

The farangs were seasoned travellers to Asian countries. Most had previous marriages with farang women, Suriya said.

Their Isaan wives are of rural, low-income and low-education families and many couples met in tourist destinations such as Pattaya, he said.

Some husbands said they did not want to marry virgins or young women. They said they understood that Thai women become sex workers because their families are poor.

A farang husband asked his Thai wife to forget the past and begin a new life with him. However, some confessed that their perspective on Thai wives and their ex-wives was different, Suriya said.

"It's interesting that these farang husbands encouraged their wives to speak English in order to be a bridge between other women in their communities and their husbands' friends and relatives," he said.

David is from England and now lives in Chiang Mai province, which is his Thai wife's home.

"I am a 'farang' who married a honest, respectable village woman from a poor family. She has survived the hardships of being rejected by a Thai man, left to bring up a young daughter alone, and being seen as someone to be avoided in case she wants to borrow money," he said.

"We help local women in similar circumstances have a chance at a better life by finding them a good farang man," he said.

Last year, David and his wife offered translation and English classes to help women in their community communicate with foreign men.

The family has also started a website to introduce them to westerners looking for the kind of family life that respectable Thai ladies are renowned for.


...AND A LETTER IN RESPONSE...


Negative stereotypes plague mixed marriages

Re: "The benefits of mixed marriage", News, April 22.

In response to "The benefits of mixed marriage", I have to say that article gave me quite a chuckle. For starters, I find it laughable that somebody would start a Website to link poor Thai women with lonely farang men looking for a sweet little wife to settle down in the village with. Do men really think that if these women weren't cash-strapped they would be so willing to take them into their lives?

I suppose many don't even care and in the end it's a case of to each his own. But I'm tired of reading all these stories about so-called knights-in-shining-armour who swoop in and rescue poor prostitutes, almost like a scene out of "Pretty Woman". All these stories are doing is perpetrating the mixed-marriage stereotype.

I have many male farang friends with intelligent, career-oriented Thai girlfriends and wives whom they consider their equals, proving that not every mixed couple can be painted with the same brush. Sadly, they tell me that people often look down on them, assuming they picked their wife up in some beer bar in Pattaya.

As a farang woman, I already know the responses to this letter are going to dub me as "bitter". I promise you, no farang has ever left me for a Thai, so I have no axe to grind. In reality, I have lived in Thailand for six years, have many Thai female friends, am married to a wonderful Thai man and have two kids, so I'm well aware of the cultural and family dynamics. And personally, having your mother-in-law hovering around day and night isn't all that great, but maybe that's just me.

Cathy Patumsuwon
Bangkok



I actually agree with the letter written by this woman. Guys who marry hookers are lacking in something. If someone can't have a relationship with a normal woman, who is not a hooker, then there's something seriously wrong with him. I suspect that most guys who meet and "fall in love" with the slapper from Pattaya are incapable of forming a normal relationship with a normal Thai woman.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I actually agree with the letter written by this woman. Guys who marry hookers are lacking in something. If someone can't have a relationship with a normal woman, who is not a hooker, then there's something seriously wrong with him. I suspect that most guys who meet and "fall in love" with the slapper from Pattaya are incapable of forming a normal relationship with a normal Thai woman.[/QUOTE]

You are such a romantic.....

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]You are such a romantic.....[/QUOTE]

The bucollic village life with their extended Isaan family, as extolled by the Farang in this week's news story, notwithstanding...

...one statistic from an earlier study from last year that puts to rest the illusion of success of the Farang/bargirl/village girl relationship/marriage is the fact that 400 divorce cases of mixed marriages were filed in Khon Kaen province alone in 2007. The main reasons cited for such an alarmingly high failure rate weres culture clashes and most importantly, that the girls in question all thought their "knight in shining armour" was considerably richer than he turned out to be.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]The bucollic village life with their extended Isaan family, as extolled by the Farang in this week's news story, notwithstanding....[/QUOTE]

OTH... I said you are such a romantic which by no means was a flame. The story, I thought was funny and I love hearing your negative comments and slams on P4P girls and stupid caveman farang invading your thailand, as well as your sparing with other members. Just like I love to hear from RA, Opebo, and many others. All of your folks inputs often make me laugh and remember events I've seen or done myself.

Of course I know many marriages between farang and P4P that are failed, I know many guys who donate huge dollars to bar girls and I've supported some before in the past too. However I walk in knowing what I'm getting into and I never put in more then I can affoard to lose because I will lose it. To me it's gambling but call me a white night that I like to try to let the girl and her family a better off then when I found her. Today I had "one" (of the many) million baht questions asked to me and I immediately thought about ISG folks and yourself slamming the heck out of me ;). Would I marry a thai girl even if she was P4P... sure I would... if I found the right one. But that hasn't happened yet nor do I think anyone will marry such an old ugly guy like myself. I'll meet you in BKK and have a drink and you can see what I'm talking about, I promise not to wear a Singha shirt and I promise to shave my knuckles... hahahaha.

So relax and chill... yes many folks dream of walking into LOS... finding a girl who can perform like a porn star who is 20 or 30 years younger and think everything will be a bed of roses. But they deserve to be taken for a ride IMHO and good for the girls if they can take a few for a ride. I personally enjoy hearing how a Issan farm girl can fleece a businessman from overseas.

I now claim that you are our boards Romantic Advisor... whenever anyone starts to feel even a little bit of liking for a lady in thai call OTH... he'll slap some sense into you.

Cheers Mate...

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]
So relax and chill... yes many folks dream of walking into LOS... finding a girl who can perform like a porn star who is 20 or 30 years younger and think everything will be a bed of roses. But they deserve to be taken for a ride IMHO and good for the girls if they can take a few for a ride. I personally enjoy hearing how a Issan farm girl can fleece a businessman from overseas.
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure I would enjoy the fleece as much as you would, especially when the SOD is not a businessman but a poor old chap that was already taken for a ride (Married & Divorced) in his own country.

I know some guys arrive here and are very naive, fragile and just looking to revamp their self esteem/Ego. I can imagine the pain the guy would have to go through after the first divorce, having to give away half of what he worked for... now imagine him coming to Thailand looking for the Love his wife refused to give him for the last couple years, finding a lady 30 years younger than him who makes him feel like a million bucks for a while only to screw him just like the first wife did. While it might be amusing, I am feeling sorry for that John Doe and, god knows he has a lot of Brothers here in Thailand.

Of course, the above is only from the man's point of view, if you look at it with the Issan Farmer Girl's eyes, what do you see? A sweet looking guy looking for love, the perfect pigeon that will easily give away his money if told he is superman and well taken care of in bed. Issan farm girl knows which of the 2 brains to stroke, and it certainly isn't the one doing the thinking ;)

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]I now claim that you are our boards Romantic Advisor... whenever anyone starts to feel even a little bit of liking for a lady in thai call OTH... he'll slap some sense into you. Cheers Mate...[/QUOTE]

I didn't think it was a flame, BTW. There's nothing wrong with feeling romantic about a Thai woman. But, just pick the right type of woman. It's simple logic. I would bet that none of the guys who do so here would ever think to marry a hooker in their home country. So, even after all my years here, I am still stunned every time I see some hapless geezer with his hooker farm wife in tow. Each to his own, I guess. But, other than sex, which will get pretty same same, even with a former pro, what can there possibly be in it for him? Certainly, there's zero intellectual stimulii - afterall, her idea of critical thought is whether to have 'poo' with her 'pra ra' in her som tam tonight for dinner. These girls are as dumb as posts. Mind you, I have seen some pretty dumb and dumber Farang with these girls. So, maybe it's a level playing field intellectually speaking.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand] These girls are as dumb as posts. Mind you, I have seen some pretty dumb and dumber Farang with these girls. So, maybe it's a level playing field intellectually speaking.[/QUOTE]

Someone suggested a while ago that you have been hurt by an Issan BG which is why you direct so much vitriol and hatred towards them and boy you sure do add a lot of credence to that thought. The idea that you can devote so much energy and countless hours with post after post bashing Issan (Brown-skinned) hookers (deny it as I'm sure you will but you have enough post here that says otherwise) says that your interest in this subject is far more than that of a neutral observer. Professor, you are obsessed with these people, but this board seems to be your prescription for mental relief so keep bashing them. I wonder how many people are really listening to you and who are you deterring or reaching with your repeated theme? I suspect no one is listening and I will pass on commenting on the intellect of the normal girls.

The point about Thai/Falang divorce rates is so misleading because its not as if the divorce rates between regular Thais are so low, in fact the report I saw indicated that it was much higher. Any inter-racial/cultural union will face challenges, why should it be any different here? I agree that hookers in general the world over will probably not contribute to a healthy matrimonial union but certainly don't subscribe to the theory that regular girls any where will make better companions. Take a look at worldwide divorce stats, its high just about every where. Sure some hookers will deceive and cheat you but so will normal regular hi-so educated women the world over.

In the end its all about character, some hookers have more trust worthy character than normal women who disguise their deception behind their smile and status. There’s no guarantee that because you enter relationship with these so call normal girls your life will be any more full-filling than if you entered into one with a hooker and I certainly am not advocating relationship with hookers. Oh and some normal educated women are clandestine hookers, especially in Thailand as I’m sure you know which is another story. If these old geezers want to marry young hookers to fulfill their needs, let them be. You and I won't do it but we are in no position to look down our noses at them as if they were some inferior beings. It’s a beautiful world out there man, show some love will ya? You have a lot of experience to share but why does it mostly have to be so mercurially negative towards the masses?

_______________________________________________________________

Thailand’s divorce rate increases

BANGKOK: -- Thailand’s divorce rate has risen significantly over the past decade.
Thailand’s national statistics released on Monday has shown that the divorce rate among Thai couples has risen over the past ten years. In 2003, the average rate of divorce was 1.28 couples per thousand people, compared to less than one couple per thousand in 1994.
The number of couples, registered as husband and wife at governmental registration offices across the country has also dramatically declined. According to the figures in 2003, the number of registered Thai marriages was only five per 1,000 people, a fall from seven in 1994.
The largest fall in registered marriages was in the country’s north-eastern region.
Only 5 marriages per thousand were registered in 2003, compared to 8, ten years ago. Government statisticians fear that these figures show a weakening of the family institution in Thailand. The statistics shows a gradual lose of faith in the family, according to government officials. This could lead to other society problems, they warned. The government has been promoting a return to family values in order to preserve a loving and peaceful Thai society.

-

[QUOTE=Run Mann]You have a lot of experience to share but why does it mostly have to be so mercurially negative towards the masses?[/QUOTE]

I really like this post, even if you take the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] out of me a bit. It gives me pause.

But, no, I really haven't been hurt by any woman from Isaan, bargirl or otherwise. I've had overall good experiences with the Isaan women who I have known. Although, few of them were bargirls. Actually, the only Thai woman who ever did me wrong in a big way was one of my ex-students who came from Saraburi, not far from BKK. But, I suppose, I've still been co-opted a bit by the urban Thai antipathy towards the poor of the NE, not least because they keep electing governments that are hell-bent on destroying this country.

My beef isn't really with the women. They're just trying any which way to survive, even if it means having unrealistic expectations of a bunch of not very smart guys. More to the point, I have an axe to grind (too much, perhaps) about the type of Farang who comes here and marries these girls, because it does have an impact on me. The letter from the woman in my original post says it all - the stereotype of the Farang/bargirl relationship, which hurts those of us living and working here, who are definitely NOT in this kind of relationship and are trying to make people aware of the difference. I don't like my GF being looked down on simply because she's with an older Farang. She's so far from being a bargirl; in looks, dress and manner, that it makes me fume when people make negative judgements when they find out my GF is from Isaan and is considerably younger than me. Then, of course there's just the everday negative attitude one encounters from people in general when they see us together. Farang guys walking around with hookers and worse marrying hookers are the cause of this, pure and simple.

I realize that I can't change the Thais' deeply held prejudice. But, I do think that these type of Farang/bargirl relationships just exacerbate the problem considerably, which is why I go on too much about them. These relationships just [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] me off because of the negative impact they have. That's the truth of it. I admit that I have utter contempt for these guys who marry these girls.

It's probably not the best thing to be writing on a board like this. But, trust me, this opinion is not that uncommon among many expats not involved in any way with the P4P scene.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand] ... More to the point, I have an axe to grind (too much, perhaps) about the type of Farang who comes here and marries these girls, because it does have an impact on me. The letter from the woman in my original post says it all - the stereotype of the Farang/bargirl relationship, which hurts those of us living and working here, who are definitely NOT in this kind of relationship and are trying to make people aware of the difference. I don't like my GF being looked down on simply because she's with an older Farang. She's so far from being a bargirl; in looks, dress and manner, that it makes me fume when people make negative judgements when they find out my GF is from Isaan and is considerably younger than me. Then, of course there's just the everday negative attitude one encounters from people in general when they see us together. Farang guys walking around with hookers and worse marrying hookers are the cause of this, pure and simple...[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, OTH, I think you are way too concerned with what people think. Why care? You have a beautiful 23 year old girlfriend. Enjoy it! You know she's a good girl. So why give a shit what aquaintences and strangers on the street think about your relationship. Tune them out. You are a very fortunate man.

By the same token, why be concerned with the love life of other farangs and their ladies? Let them enjoy their lives too. No resentment is necessary. Some will succeed. Some will fail. It is no concern of yours. Trying to live according to the expectations of others is a recipe for unhappiness.

Regards,
Daddy

I do not disagree with the opinion that farang mixing with, having relationships with(paid or, in rare instances, unpaid)and getting married to bar/p4p girls has upset the "natural social order" in areas of Thailand that this fraternization is noticeable. Based on what has been posted about Thai society, however, this should not come as a surprise when a Western culture "invades" an Asiatic culture for social reasons.

I refer you to the link posted by NicFrenchy on the 20th of April:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0y53yhQFo&feature=related[/url]

Justin, IMO, gave clear insight as to why single causasian males come to Thailand in droves stating, in no uncertain terms, "to be loved and find happiness". Something, he goes on to say, that he was unable to find in his native country(I assume the UK).

In addition Justin, according to the video, is age 33 and I believe that if someone had asked him, when he was, say 18, would he ever consider living in SE Asia so that he could have girlfriends. IMO, he would have laughed out loud and told them they were daft!

Extreme desperation for female companionship that is reliable, accomodating, attractive, sexual and, most importantly, AVAILABLE can cause many single men to make life-altering decisions, as to move to or spend as much time as possible, in Thailand.

The question: Why would many ot the single Western males that come to Thailand move away from family, friends and a familiar culture? The answer is Justin's answer("to be loved and find happiness") and, how sad is that?

I ask, using poor Justin as a "Poster Boy", how could you or why would you EVER get involved in a bar/p4p girl. His description of his "girlfriend" was almost laughable in a pathetic sort of way as, from what he stated, she was only interested in the "highest bidder" and once the "worse"(as in "for better or worse") presented itself, she was GONE! Justin painted himself, unfortunately for him, as a classic "patsy".

IMO, the reason many Western single men, like Justin, go "looking for love in all the wrong places" in Thailand, can be attributed to ignorance and convenience.

Ignorance of where to and how to find a Thai girl that would be attracted to them and how do they "court" them if one is ever located. "Culture clash" and a "language barrier" is followed by a fear of the unknown and naturally leads to avoidance of this option.

Conversely, bar/p4p girls are attractive, available, friendly, numerous(can be found in bars, gogos, the street, etc.), great sex and, as a welcomed bonus, some even speak English(at varying levels of proficiency).

Convenient relationships with the type of women that many Western single men are so desperate for; what more can they ask for and why go anywhere else to find it!

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Certainly, there's zero intellectual stimulii - afterall, her idea of critical thought is whether to have 'poo' with her 'pra ra' in her som tam tonight for dinner. These girls are as dumb as posts.[/QUOTE]

You can just imagine the scenario in the local beer bars back in the days:

Nid: "Hey, girls, that OTH guy's heading up the soi."

Lek: "Oh fuck! Not him again."

Nui: "Yeah, why do some guys think that buying you a ladydrink gives them free entry to your head?"

Tuy: "Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to play thick-as-fuck and just talk about food and make-up."

OTH: "Biah lek krup. Good evening ladies. Have you thought anymore about that fascinating discussion we....."

Silent groans fill the bar's ether.

[QUOTE=Daddy07]With all due respect, OTH, I think you are way too concerned with what people think. Why care? You have a beautiful 23 year old girlfriend. Enjoy it! You know she's a good girl. So why give a shit what aquaintences and strangers on the street think about your relationship. Tune them out. You are a very fortunate man.

By the same token, why be concerned with the love life of other farangs and their ladies? Let them enjoy their lives too. No resentment is necessary. Some will succeed. Some will fail. It is no concern of yours. Trying to live according to the expectations of others is a recipe for unhappiness.

Regards,
Daddy[/QUOTE]

Ya. I used to think that. Who gives a FUCK what anyone thinks.

Except, what's brought it home in recent years is that I was told at work that I shouldn't bring my GF to university functions because people would talk and it wouldn't look good. Of course, I suspected the reason for this, but asked anyway. I was told, in no uncertain terms that Thais with whom I work would immediately assume the worst and think she's a bargirl and it would reflect negatively on my position. Despite my protests, that all they would have to do is meet her to know she's a good girl from a good family, well-spoken and polite, I was told emphatically "No" and given a long harangue about Farang and their loso bargirlfriends. I realize this is complete prejudice and totally unjustified. But, it's the reality of what I personally face. So, I admit it's coloured my thinking, considerably.

However, I still find the whole idea of looking for one's mate in what amounts to a glorified brothel goes against the normal social dynamic and interaction that is the mating ritual. A scenario in which one's relationship begins by buying a mate out of a bar and paying for sex (and please don't say we all pay for it - it's not the same) begs the question, "Are these men incapable of forming normal relationships?"

But, you're absolutely right, of course that I shouldn't begrudge another man's relationship and shouldn't care. It isn't my business.

As some have suggested to me by PM, not to mention being told by family and friends, that perhaps I should quit my job and find a more positive, less poisonous working environment, I will say that working where I do gives me a facinating and often alarming incite into the appalling way in which the upper strata of Thai society thinks.

But, hey...time to get off my soap-box and make an effort to keep my personal angst to myself, I suppose.

Run Mann's probably right. Nobody's listening and more importantly, nobody's interested.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]You can just imagine the scenario in the local beer bars back in the days:

Nid: "Hey, girls, that OTH guy's heading up the soi."

Lek: "Oh fuck! Not him again."

Nui: "Yeah, why do some guys think that buying you a ladydrink gives them free entry to your head?"

Tuy: "Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to play thick-as-fuck and just talk about food and make-up."

OTH: "Biah lek krup. Good evening ladies. Have you thought anymore about that fascinating discussion we....."

Silent groans fill the bar's ether.[/QUOTE]

Ya, what is it about existentialism that bar girls don't like?;)

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I was told at work that I shouldn't bring my GF to university functions because people would talk and it wouldn't look good. Of course, I suspected the reason for this, but asked anyway. I was told, in no uncertain terms that Thais with whom I work would immediately assume the worst and think she's a bargirl and it would reflect negatively on my position. Despite my protests, that all they would have to do is meet her to know she's a good girl from a good family, well-spoken and polite, I was told emphatically "No" and given a long harangue about Farang and their loso bargirlfriends. I realize this is complete prejudice and totally unjustified. But, it's the reality of what I personally face. So, I admit it's coloured my thinking, considerably.[/QUOTE]

I believe the same assumptions would come from Farangs. I used to date a very cute girl (sales manager in a respectable shop) and no matter how nice she dressed and how non-P4P she looked, she always got very interested "looks" from Farangs we would encounter. These people clearly thought she was a working girl. I think not only the Thais are prejudiced but so are a lot of Tourist Joe coming here thinking the whole country is just one big Massage Parlor LOL

[QUOTE=NicFrenchy] These people clearly thought she was a working girl. I think not only the Thais are prejudiced but so are a lot of Tourist Joe coming here thinking the whole country is just one big Massage Parlor LOL[/QUOTE]
You don't really know what people are "clearly" thinking.
But Farangs will ogle at pretty girls. Some will be jealous and be thinking "where can I get one like that?"
I don't believe that ALL Farangs assume every Thai girl with a Farang is P4P.
Depends how the girl acts, how the guy looks and acts, and the knowledge and experience of the Farang looking at them.
My GF likes to dress up with big ear-rings and a bit sexy. So unfortunately she probably looks P4P.

She doesn't speak English with me. Not sure what impression this gives.