Moscow

[QUOTE=Priamos]The problem is, I did. If you take much of the FF at face value you'd think the Moscow P2P scene has prices that are twice as high as Germany and the Netherlands (countries with about five times the average income, I may add). Strictly as an outsider, it would seem to indicate an "expensive taste" on the of many of the self-declared Moscow experts.[/QUOTE]There are basically 2 levels of hobbyists in Moscow; the guys who live/work there or visit on a regular basis and know their way around and have some basic facility with the Russian language. For guys like this, who have the "game", sex is basically free, if you exclude all the associated costs of; club entry, drinks, taxis, gifts, etc. Or, it is very minimal, because they can negotiate directly with the local girls.

And then there are guys like yourself; never been to Moscow, don't speak the lingo, are totally clueless and expect to be catered to. For guys like yourself, there are places like Night Flight and internet escort sites where you can talk to someone in English. You can distinguish these sites from the internet escort sites that cater to local guys by the dialing code on the phone number. The girls on the local sites prefix their numbers with an 8, which is the internal dialing code for Russia. They expect to get calls from local guys, who speak Russian, and their fees are set accordingly. Typically, these girls are looking for cash in hand, not a long term virtual email relationship. If the dialing code begins with a 7, this is the external prefix for dialing Russia, so you know they are expecting calls from foreign customers. For these, the prices will be about twice as high as in Germany and the Netherlands, because, well, they know there are guys like you who have no choice but to pay them. :)

[QUOTE=Priamos]The problem is, I did. If you take much of the FF at face value you'd think the Moscow P2P scene has prices that are twice as high as Germany and the Netherlands (countries with about five times the average income, I may add). Strictly as an outsider, it would seem to indicate an "expensive taste" on the of many of the self-declared Moscow experts. [/QUOTE]

Okay, Priamos, I know you're trolling, but lest you confuse others, let's look at the relative prices between these.

Let's take the Palace in Frankfurt, for example. It's not exactly cheap, as I recall. 90E entrance + 50E per half hour? So, let's assume you go twice for an hour each. That's 290E.

Now you take a reputable salon such as Fantasy's in Moscow. It's 4000R/hr. At 2 hours (during which time you can have at least 2 different girls), that's 8000R, or around 220E. Cheaper and a helluvalot more discreet.

If you want take-out, I can guarantee that you can find cheaper in Moscow, as long as you take the time and have reasonable game. One strategy is to go to HotDog on a Friday/Saturday (when it's packed with dyeffki) and drink with a number of the girls you find attractive and to get their digits for future use. Understand that they pay $60 just to get in the door. Including taxi and drinks, that comes to around $100 total expenses per night because these girls typically live far from downtown. That has to come from somewhere, especially since many don't pick up every night. However, if you call them on another night (especially on, say, weeknights where their chances of picking up are lower), you have leverage to close a much better deal. And if you treat them to dinner and a nice night on the town, it may turn into a freebie. It's certainly worked for me in the past. Maybe you can find that in Frankfurt, but I haven't found it.

[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Okay, Priamos, I know you're trolling, but lest you confuse others, let's look at the relative prices between these.

Let's take the Palace in Frankfurt, for example. It's not exactly cheap, as I recall. 90E entrance + 50E per half hour? So, let's assume you go twice for an hour each. That's 290E.[/QUOTE]

Let me start in the opposite corner, Pizdyets. For guys like me who (in the delicate phrasology of Stravinsky) are "totally clueless and expect to be catered for" the Moscow section of ISG is perhaps a bit of a disappointment. If you've gone over my past postings (as your reference to FKK Frankfurt seems to indicate) you should know that I have over the years tried to be helpful toward beginners, taking the time to explain the local scene even when people could have read this information for themselves further down on the tread, in my favourite haunt Istanbul as well as my local playgrounds Paris and Brussels.

Please let me share with you the following comparison: a few years ago I landed a business trip to that favourite mongering destination, Bangkok. ISG was enormously useful to me. Upon reading 20-30 postings I had a complete picture of the major watering holes, as well as the going rates - 2,500 to 3,000 bath for a night in those days - that one should expect to pay. (I realise that the word "should" here may grate some nerves; it is conditioned on a North European notion of "fair prices" that people from more individualistic countries such as the Wild West and the Wild East would probably refute.) Following this it was very easy for me to discard a few online escort agencies offering "company for the low price of 5,000 baht - 10,000 for the whole night" as the tourist traps they were.

In the Moscow department the tables appear to be turned. I can go on a Russian integrator portal (I read Russian even if I don't speak it) and establish my own market prices: two hours outcall mostly fall in the price fork of 200-300 USD. A night is upward of 400 USD. However, if I ask my fellow mongers for directions I receive private emails (and postings) directing me to service providers charging upward of 200 Euros per hour and, in one case, intimating that if I'm not willing to pay that then I'm a pathetic cheapskate. It does look, Pizdyets, as if this part of the board is in the hands of people (expats, locals...) who are not motivated by fraternal feelings towards fellow mongers but rather a combination of classic Russian chauvinism ("foreigners in Russia should PAY!") and the nouveau riche excesses of the Wild East ("Flaunt it baby! Yeah!").

Finally, let me respond directly to the point you raised. The entrance of FKK Palace in Frankfurt (why is this of interest, BTW?) is 75 Euros. An hour costs 100 Euros, that is true, but if you want only one pop the price is 50 Euros. This amount is - almost always, that is - inclusive of French kissing and blowjob without condom. So, unless you overpay (which I have often done, as you know if you've read my postings: for instance I often slip the girl another 50 Euros for CIM), you can have two girls offering GFE or at least near-GFE spend 2-3 hours, or as long as you please, having free drinks, free meals, sauna, jacuzzi, porn cinema... for 175 Euros. Voila.

[QUOTE=Lukasek]Thanks Jim for the links, you or anybody knows actually how much is the price for one hour of escort to hotel ? [/QUOTE]
I haven't used Girls-Students and Diana Escort for years, it was back in the time I spoke not a word in Russian (and price can double in a couple of years). I think Guido88 has used them more recently so maybe he can chime in. Or you can do a search, a few other members of this board (or similar boards) have used them.

Concerning cost and services in general, FKKs are nowadays a better option than Moscow if you're new to the scene and don't speak Russian. I've been to Russia for years, and time have changed. The golden age of Moscow is over as far as I'm concerned. The time where you can get a tochka girl for overnight for less than 100 USD, with BBBJ, kissing and even anal, are definitely gone. It's harder and harder to get BBBJ and "anal included" in Russia today (OK, last year, haven't been back since but I doubt the trend has reversed direction). You can't even find a decent looking girl in a tochka now, and an overnight with a pick-up girl from a club doesn't last more than 3-4 hours.

Jim

Gandjim,

The flight club in moscow, the girls there were asking as much as $600 for the night. And its the same in st petersburgh. why the girls there are asking for so much is beyond me, and on top of all that you have to have a visa and an invitation form for the Hotel you book to go to Russia. So the same for me, the one time and only time i ever went to Russia.

[QUOTE=Priamos]The problem is, I did. If you take much of the FF at face value you'd think the Moscow P2P scene has prices that are twice as high as Germany and the Netherlands (countries with about five times the average income, I may add). Strictly as an outsider, it would seem to indicate an "expensive taste" on the of many of the self-declared Moscow experts.



OMG, what have you been smoking? My remarks were dripping with sarchasm, alluding to the risks that Shelby seems to think is such a big problem. Kindly don't turn it back on me.[/QUOTE]

Priamos


The problem with Pay 4 Play in Moscow is that in a few short years pricing has skyrocketed, along with diminished performance by the girls. They now believe they can charge ridicules rates, provide shitty service and leave early.

This has changed by mongers now throwing piles of cash for something the old timers were paying $75.00- 150.00 a night for prime pussy as recently as 2005

At this point Moscow is much pricier than Western Europe. Part of it is too much money in Moscow, the other is that mongers are neither shopping nor negotiating to get the best deals.

As Strav pointed out if you take the easy path it will cost more. Even on my 1st trip speaking zero Russian I got on the computer and phone and shopped until I found what I was looking for. Out of 20 calls 18 may have been unsuccessful but the other 2 were awesome.

By nature the Russian women have IMHO been subservient and quite willing to please. The newbies overpay and let the girls get away with things that an experienced monger or Russian man would not.

P4P in Moscow is now a very expensive addiction. It is a shame to see it deteriorate so quickly.

As to what I have been smoking. Well it is harvest season….. I am guilty on that one.

Apologies for missing your sarcasm.

It did irritate me that there was a lack of appreciation for Shelby’s input.

Guido88

[QUOTE=GandJim]I haven't used Girls-Students and Diana Escort for years, it was back in the time I spoke not a word in Russian (and price can double in a couple of years). I think Guido88 has used them more recently so maybe he can chime in. Or you can do a search, a few other members of this board (or similar boards) have used them.

Concerning cost and services in general, FKKs are nowadays a better option than Moscow if you're new to the scene and don't speak Russian. I've been to Russia for years, and time have changed. The golden age of Moscow is over as far as I'm concerned. The time where you can get a tochka girl for overnight for less than 100 USD, with BBBJ, kissing and even anal, are definitely gone. It's harder and harder to get BBBJ and "anal included" in Russia today (OK, last year, haven't been back since but I doubt the trend has reversed direction). You can't even find a decent looking girl in a tochka now, and an overnight with a pick-up girl from a club doesn't last more than 3-4 hours.

Jim[/QUOTE]

Jim

At this point P4P in Moscow is out of my price range. Last trip I substituted Thailand for Moscow and found good values. It’s hard for me to pay ludicrous amounts of money for a woman.

My most recent reports came from Firebird and I think Jake or one of his buddies may have used them. Firebird spoke highly of the experience. If I remember right Jake did as well.

Sounds as though the website may not be quite as reliable as it once was. There have been complaints of short time, false photos and bait and switch.

Key thing for the newbies to remember is if the girl at the door is not what you ordered send her back with cab fare and move on.

Make it clear to the girl that leaving early is simply not an option.

Guido88

[QUOTE=Guido88]As to what I have been smoking. Well it is harvest season….. I am guilty on that one.

Apologies for missing your sarcasm.

It did irritate me that there was a lack of appreciation for Shelby’s input.[/QUOTE]

Your're probably quite right that, as a newcomer, I walked into that one on my big feet. Just "between the two of us", I had a bruising discussion some time ago on another country thread with a gentleman who was actively promoting one, expensive, set of services (nothing wrong with that, of course) to the point of ranting against anybody who would recommend anything else. I never came to realise whether that guy was simply obsessive or financially interested in the services he proffered. When I saw Shelby criticising alternative service providers I thought "f***, there we go again!" obviously without properly recognising the man's role and past contributions to this thread.

Sorry about that.

[QUOTE=Guido88]It did irritate me that there was a lack of appreciation for Shelby’s input.

Guido88[/QUOTE]There's a lot of appreciation for Shelby's work, he obviously put a lot of effort into it.

And I feel no shame in being jealous.

:)

Guys can anybody please recommend me a couple of pretty Russian Blondinkas that provides good service? Preferently with big tits and/or ass (no obligatory but desirable)

Thanks

If you are not an oligarch Moscow is not, IMHO, the place for P4P. In that respect Germany is a lot more value for money, and easier to reach. Thailand and the Philippines are cheap, I suppose, if you are into Oriental women.

Moscow is, however, a place for freebies if you know where to go, what Russian girls want, and ideally, speak Russian. But hunting freebies is still expensive: you'll spend over $100/night just for accommodation. Hence, unless you have special ties with Russia or a lot of money, I would not recommend it.
Sorry to disappoint ...


[QUOTE=Guido88]Jim

At this point P4P in Moscow is out of my price range. Last trip I substituted Thailand for Moscow and found good values. It’s hard for me to pay ludicrous amounts of money for a woman.

My most recent reports came from Firebird and I think Jake or one of his buddies may have used them. Firebird spoke highly of the experience. If I remember right Jake did as well.

Sounds as though the website may not be quite as reliable as it once was. There have been complaints of short time, false photos and bait and switch.

Key thing for the newbies to remember is if the girl at the door is not what you ordered send her back with cab fare and move on.

Make it clear to the girl that leaving early is simply not an option.

Guido88[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SlutLover]
Moscow is, however, a place for freebies if you know where to go, what Russian girls want, and ideally, speak Russian. But hunting freebies is still expensive: you'll spend over $100/night just for accommodation. Hence, unless you have special ties with Russia or a lot of money, I would not recommend it.
Sorry to disappoint ...[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with you. Moscow is not for the "faint of heart" or the "slim of wallet". If you do not have business in Moscow that can subsidize your airfare and accommodation, you can burn through money faster that you know.

As far as freebies goes, it's still an expensive proposition in Moscow when you consider cost of living. It's is also one that requires an investment of time and effort. But oh it can pay back handsome dividends.

[QUOTE=Priamos]Your're probably quite right that, as a newcomer, I walked into that one on my big feet. Just "between the two of us", I had a bruising discussion some time ago on another country thread with a gentleman who was actively promoting one, expensive, set of services (nothing wrong with that, of course) to the point of ranting against anybody who would recommend anything else. I never came to realise whether that guy was simply obsessive or financially interested in the services he proffered. When I saw Shelby criticising alternative service providers I thought "f***, there we go again!" obviously without properly recognising the man's role and past contributions to this thread.

Sorry about that.[/QUOTE]


Priamos

Our discussion was centered on P4P in Moscow, which is as most agree a rich mans pursuit nowadays.

Even Doc with his gift of Russian gab has given up on Moscow for P4P.

However freebies are another topic. Difficult for a short stay mongers; those with time and language seem to do quite well.

Lucky bastards…..

Doc leaves a long trail of empty condom wrappers. :)

Another option would be Piter. Easier for the 1st trip in many respects with pricing still better than Moscow.

No shortage of great looking women and many think freebies are easier there. P4P is plentiful and somewhat reasonable compared to Moscow.

For either city work the dating sites. Omen, Mheart ect…

Most have a section for intime or erotic services. Expect more than a few that speak no English. Keep dialing and you will find ones that do.

Then ask them to bring a friend.

As Jake mentioned it is well worth the effort.

Good hunting

Guido88

[QUOTE=Priamos]It does look, Pizdyets, as if this part of the board is in the hands of people (expats, locals.) who are not motivated by fraternal feelings towards fellow mongers but rather a combination of classic Russian chauvinism ("foreigners in Russia should PAY! ") and the nouveau riche excesses of the Wild East ("Flaunt it baby! Yeah! "). [/QUOTE] I'd like to jump in on this.

I do get your point on this myself. But its possibly more perception than you realise.

When I first got to Russia I could not go beyond the Girls-students site, due to the language barrier, but after one particular girl, Ira, asked me why I didn't yet have a girlfriend, and offered herself, to practice her english, get free meals, a place to stay from time to time (she stayed outside of moscow, and would call around 6am to crash/shower at my place) She helped me to understand some of the 'goings on' of such sites, and the fact that the real street value was far cheaper than the expat-catering salons.

The real interesting point was, she would help me find other girls on occasions, but when I tried to copy her, I was barely able to get anywhere.

I have literally stood in podezds (front halls) of buildings, lost, the wrong address, the girl cancelling because I can't find her place, at the very last minute, after a taxi there and a taxi back, costing me a few hundred rubles, gone to places with ugly/fat/WTF girls, More than half of the times I've gone looking for some of the lesser expensive places.

Sure, I was (and still am) cheap, so I don't mind looking 2-3 times to get a decent girl, who, for 2000 ryb will give me a decent time, and if she's decent enough I give her repeat business for the next 2-3 times to make up for the cancelled/lost times. Some of these girls would come meet me, away from the 'apartment/goblin boss" for only the price of a romantic dinner. A. K. A freebee.

But coming into town from outside, your unlikely to be able to get this kind of service, no matter what anyone reports on the site. That kind of work costs time and money. Which you pay for by going for the easy expat-friendly sites.

So in conclusion, its not that we're hiding anything, we just know its alot harder than it looks in Moscow.

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[QUOTE=Jake993]I have to agree with you. Moscow is not for the "faint of heart" or the "slim of wallet". If you do not have business in Moscow that can subsidize your airfare and accommodation, you can burn through money faster that you know.

As far as freebies goes, it's still an expensive proposition in Moscow when you consider cost of living. It's is also one that requires an investment of time and effort. But oh it can pay back handsome dividends.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately this is simply true.

No matter which way you bend the rules or no matter how much charm and skillz one possesses, women simply cost money.

Pros, freebies, club sluts.

There is no way to avoid it. Mongering is an expensive hobby, but I think most here will agree that it is worth it.