Moscow

OK, it's then settled. During my stay in Moscow I'll stay away from "temptations" and limit myself to a bit of sightseeing and dinner at my hotel. I don't want to pay significantly more than I would in Belgium, Bulgaria, Germany, Greece and the Netherlands simply for the "pleasure" of being in the city of Nikolai I... ;)

One question, though: what has, in your view, led to this extreme explosion of prices? Yeah sure, the oil-induced boom has made Moscow awash with quick cash. Hence, demand for p4p services has increased, but this has an upward effect on prices if and only if supply is curtailed. I would have thought, seeing the still extremely low incomes across Russia, that there would be sufficient additional supply to keep prices low. - A bit like in Shanghai, where new girls are bussed in from the rural area every day. Or, are we all paying a dear price for the infamous Moscovite "propizhka"?

[QUOTE=Priamos]
One question, though: what has, in your view, led to this extreme explosion of prices? Yeah sure, the oil-induced boom has made Moscow awash with quick cash. Hence, demand for p4p services has increased, but this has an upward effect on prices if and only if supply is curtailed. I would have thought, seeing the still extremely low incomes across Russia, that there would be sufficient additional supply to keep prices low. [/QUOTE]

Let me TRY to answer your question with a question. "What goods or services ARE relatively cheap in London, Tokyo, Paris, New York City, or Zurich?" Answer: None.

Since Moscow has been back on the scene in terms of being a world class city, I think P4P has found its place. Sad but true. I would suggest that similar caliber P4P in those cities is not a whole lot less than in Moscow. Not to say that you cannot get laid for an hour for 2500 rubles because you can. In fact you can get it for less. But you need to be able to speak Russian. Let's face it, drop dead gorgeous English speaking working girls in Moscow are a "SPECIALTY" and therefore don't follow traditional rules of "price elasticity of demand". Since non-Russian speaking foreigners don't have much choice except to pay the going price or find something else to do on a cold night. I would suggest to you that if those same foreigners stopped paying the high prices altogether, the supply would dry up long before the price went down. Girls have more choices today and would find somewhere else to work.

I think that during the post Perestroika period, Moscow was in a tremendous state of transition. Prostitution was as much about survival then as anything. I don't think a girl in Moscow who speaks perfect English and charges $500 for an hour or two is too worried about basic survival. It's more of a career choice. The Tochka girls is probably another matter and I'm not sure I understand the economics of that phenomenon except perhaps greed on the part of the police getting payoffs and maybe the expenses of the Mamochkas. Prices in the provinces ARE relatively low. Moscow and Saint Petersburg are anomalous.

Dobre Diem,

Not to interrupt this wonderful string of "remember when" and bitching but...

I am on a short stay this time (5 days) in Moscow and wouldn't mind a little local help. I am RTFF but in the interest of time I would like specific info on the following from you experts:

1) Anyone want to meet up and show a newbie around?

2) Anyone know of a "tour guide" who can show me the city and her tits? Approximate cost?

3) Anything that can get me dead? Neighborhoods, places, people to avoid?

4) English speaking or at least friendly places (bars, websites, etc)

Thanks and dasvidanya.

[QUOTE=Priamos]One question, though: what has, in your view, led to this extreme explosion of prices? [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Jake993]Let me TRY to answer your question with a question. "What goods or services ARE relatively cheap in London, Tokyo, Paris, New York City, or Zurich?" Answer: None.

Since Moscow has been back on the scene in terms of being a world class city, I think P4P has found its place. Sad but true. I would suggest that similar caliber P4P in those cities is not a whole lot less than in Moscow. Not to say that you cannot get laid for an hour for 2500 rubles because you can. In fact you can get it for less. But you need to be able to speak Russian. Let's face it, drop dead gorgeous English speaking working girls in Moscow are a "SPECIALTY" and therefore don't follow traditional rules of "price elasticity of demand". Since non-Russian speaking foreigners don't have much choice except to pay the going price or find something else to do on a cold night. I would suggest to you that if those same foreigners stopped paying the high prices altogether, the supply would dry up long before the price went down. Girls have more choices today and would find somewhere else to work.

I think that during the post Perestroika period, Moscow was in a tremendous state of transition. Prostitution was as much about survival then as anything. I don't think a girl in Moscow who speaks perfect English and charges $500 for an hour or two is too worried about basic survival. It's more of a career choice. The Tochka girls is probably another matter and I'm not sure I understand the economics of that phenomenon except perhaps greed on the part of the police getting payoffs and maybe the expenses of the Mamochkas. Prices in the provinces ARE relatively low. Moscow and Saint Petersburg are anomalous.[/QUOTE]Jake is absolutely right.

Despite the fact that much of the city still resembles 2nd or 3rd world shithole and despite the fact that Moscow is still decades away from being a world class city in terms of cultural substance or infrastructure, it is already world class in terms of cash flow and women. It is in many ways a singular anomoly. Unfortunately, Moscow money is also making St.Petersburg and ultimately other cities more expensive.

Moreover, I'll stick with my thesis that although English-speaking foreigners pay too much in Moscow, so do most Russians. Their prices are not substantially cheaper, especially in terms of take out/outcall.

The Russian is not paying $150 for the same girl you paid $300 for. He's also paying $300.

The central difference is that there ARE cheaper forms of prostitution in Moscow, however with limited Russian knowledge you'll either need a ton of patience or a lot of luck to access them. Locals can and do access these with ease... however even for experienced mongers finding a salon with affordable and hot babes can sometimes be a real nerve-wracking nightmare, with no guarantee of success.

An analogy.

A couple of weeks ago I was fucking a girl in the mouth, with the promise that I wouldn't come in her mouth but would rather pull out and jizz on her chest. Normally I am a man of my word, however it just felt too damn good and I shot 3 days worth of jizz build up down her throat. When she realized what had just happened she coughed and sputtered and ran to the bathroom spitting all over herself.

I followed her a minute later and she glared unbelievingly at me with big doe eyes, asking in a sweet hurt voice:

"Pochemu?/why?"

I answered coldly:

"Because I can."

She didn't reply and 5 minutes later she was cuddling up to me in bed and purring like a kitten.

Why do English-speaking pros at Night Flight or Hot Dog charge $500 for an hour or two of sex?

Because they can. You would too.[QUOTE=Priamos]I would have thought, seeing the still extremely low incomes across Russia, that there would be sufficient additional supply to keep prices low. - A[/QUOTE]There is truth to this of course, depsite the fact that young Russians can make more money than you think. Don't forget that they pay almost no tax, many live for free with their parents, don't own a car and usually eat at home. Their TAKE HOME income or pocket cash is often on equal level with Europeans of the same age. Girls from the provinces who have to pay for an apartment are worse off, which makes them more likely to become prostitutes or be easy to lay for small presents or vague promises.

[QUOTE=Priamos]It does look, Pizdyets, as if this part of the board is in the hands of people (expats, locals...) who are not motivated by fraternal feelings towards fellow mongers but rather a combination of classic Russian chauvinism ("foreigners in Russia should PAY!") and the nouveau riche excesses of the Wild East ("Flaunt it baby! Yeah!").
[/QUOTE]

Priamos, if you had bothered to read my posts (as I did yours), you'd see that that is not my attitude. To the contrary, I've tried to help my fellow mongers not only by my postings, but by my personal actions.

[QUOTE]
Finally, let me respond directly to the point you raised. The entrance of FKK Palace in Frankfurt (why is this of interest, BTW?) is 75 Euros. An hour costs 100 Euros, that is true, but if you want only one pop the price is 50 Euros. This amount is - almost always, that is - inclusive of French kissing and blowjob without condom. So, unless you overpay (which I have often done, as you know if you've read my postings: for instance I often slip the girl another 50 Euros for CIM), you can have two girls offering GFE or at least near-GFE spend 2-3 hours, or as long as you please, having free drinks, free meals, sauna, jacuzzi, porn cinema... for 175 Euros. Voila.[/QUOTE]

It's of interest because you brought up the comparison with Western Europe yourself. My experience - though BBBJ is standard in the FKKs, DFK is negotiable. The opposite is true in salons here - DFK is standard but BBBJ is negotiable. Also, not all FKKs serve alcohol - salons do. All I'm saying is that it's a matter of personal preference.

Finally, if your target price is 175E (just over 6K rubles), then you can also have 2 great looking and passionate girls in a salon in Moscow and I can nearly guarantee it'll be a nice experience. And just recently, I had a girl in HotDog ask me for 5K for the night (I ended up giving her 7K). It's not like all girls are asking for $400. Sure, p4p is expensive in Moscow, but don't make it sound like it's that much more than Western Europe.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Why do English-speaking pros at Night Flight or Hot Dog charge $500 for an hour or two of sex?

Because they can. You would too.There is truth to this of course, depsite the fact that young Russians can make more money than you think. Don't forget that they pay almost no tax, many live for free with their parents, don't own a car and usually eat at home. Their TAKE HOME income or pocket cash is often on equal level with Europeans of the same age. Girls from the provinces who have to pay for an apartment are worse off, which makes them more likely to become prostitutes or be easy to lay for small presents or vague promises.[/QUOTE]

So, I've thought about this a bit. For one thing, rent is high for everyone who doesn't own their own flat. My experience has been that 99% of the WGs I meet are from outside of Moscow, meaning they have to pay rent. It's hard to find even a shithole apartment in Moscow these days for less than $1000/month. Go even further out, and you're paying for additional transport and time. This affects salons, apartment girls and WGs at NF/HD all the same. Secondly, prostitution - unlike in Germany - is officially illegal in Russia. That spells big payoffs to greedy police to make sure their operations (whether NF, HD, salons, apartmenty, tochki, etc) stay open. And then there's the cost of living in Moscow, which is just about the highest of anywhere in the world. All those costs are passed directly to us, the consumers.

Honestly, I think the whole system is heading for a major correction. Last time I was at HotDog, I saw very few guys leaving with girls, eventhough the place was packed. In fact, the cutest girl there was getting very little attention since she pretty much priced herself out of the market (she was asking $500/night). Some Russian guys I was chatting with wouldn't take anyone over 6K, and then they expected the girl to pull a train as well (when I left, they were still looking!) Sure, girls can afford to go a night or two without hooking up, but after that, it's prohibitively expensive (at roughly $100/night for expenses). You'd figure that more and more girls would be trying to pick up "dates" in regular clubs, but at reduced prices. The problem there is that they have to compete with girls with similar/better looks, but not demanding any payment. I think all these point to why sites like mamba are increasingly popular with WGs: police involvement is minimal, expenses are minimal, and the girls are reasonably assured that they're not getting hooked up with a Jack-the-Ripper/Ted Bundy type.

[QUOTE=Jake993]Let me TRY to answer your question with a question. "What goods or services ARE relatively cheap in London, Tokyo, Paris, New York City, or Zurich?" Answer: None.
[/QUOTE]

That's mostly true. Though, when it comes to P4P I put a question mark around NYC. If you avoid the pricier agencies and pick a private provider from Craigslist or some such site you come off comfortably compared with Paris, London... and Moscow. I didn't mention London, Paris and Tokyo in my posting partly for this reason, and partly because the comparison seems unreasonable to start with: the incomes per head in Russia are these days at par with Mexico and Brazil. In France, Japan and the UK people earn on average 3 times more. (And that's in purchasing power terms; cash incomes are about 5 times higher.)

Thus, the status of Moscow as a haven of high life and high prices is, as Doctor Skank correctly said, an anomaly. I attribute it to the fact that the country is so centralised (few business people in, say, Germany care to waste time in Berlin; few Russian business people can allow themselves NOT to be in Moscow...). To this comes that access to Moscow from poorer parts of Russia is restricted. People are held back by the infamous propizhka; businesses are held back by mayor Luzhkov's machinations. But then again...

... that's the way it is. Sitting around wishing things were different is perhaps not a very productive use of one's time.

Pizdyets,

Не кормите троллей... ;)

(don't feed the troll)

[QUOTE=Stravinsky]
And then there are guys like yourself; never been to Moscow, don't speak the lingo, are totally clueless and expect to be catered to. For guys like yourself, there are places like Night Flight and internet escort sites where you can talk to someone in English. You can distinguish these sites from the internet escort sites that cater to local guys by the dialing code on the phone number. The girls on the local sites prefix their numbers with an 8, which is the internal dialing code for Russia. They expect to get calls from local guys, who speak Russian, and their fees are set accordingly. Typically, these girls are looking for cash in hand, not a long term virtual email relationship. If the dialing code begins with a 7, this is the external prefix for dialing Russia, so you know they are expecting calls from foreign customers. For these, the prices will be about twice as high as in Germany and the Netherlands, because, well, they know there are guys like you who have no choice but to pay them. :)[/QUOTE]

Thanks Strav for the "Insider Info"..I always wondered why 7 international code for Russia is confused with 8 in Intimcity while Rusdosug the English sister site has 7 dialing code :)

Hi,

I will go in Moscow next mounth, I will stay in hotel Milan, can anybody let me know if there is any action there or if I can bring easily a lady inside?

Thanks!

Guys are those sites [url]www.bad-russian-girls.com[/url] and [url]www.russiansexbombs.com[/url] legitimate?

Strike,

It doesn't look good; the sites are designed in English and phone numbers and rates are only available if you become a member. I doubt if you will get much out of these sites, but then, miracles can happen.

The main escort sites for Moscow are intimcity.ru and dosug.nu. Rusdosug.com is a sister site to intimcity, but it also offers an English version. There is also a site called dosug.sextalk.ru, which is sponsored by sextalk, but it is exclusively in Russian.

Bad Russian Girls has been discussed many times in this forum. Girls are the same as the ones available on other FREE sites such as the ones Strav mentionned. In addition, they do not remove girls who have stopped working and probably 80% of the database is obsolete.

I have paid them once several years ago for a visit to Kiev, as I saw they have girls from Gia and another site I forgot the name, which I knew were real. So I paid as I saw some other nice girls not on Gia. It turned out that these "other" girls were in fact old girls from Gia who have stopped working for years, which Gia has removed from their website long time ago.

Same for Moscow, girls are either also on other FREE websites, or have stopped working long ago.

Jim

I have just abruptly ended a session with Helena. I chose her based on her participation in this forum, her English capability, and the pictures posted on her website: [url]http://www.moscow-affair.com/picture4.html[/url]

I don't' mind shelling out some coin for a good massage, HJ/cbj in the comfort of my room. Girl gets paid for low risk and I get what I pay for. Usually.

I contacted her via phone and arranged a meeting, she could meet me in about an hour. I informed her that I was not a full service client and that I would be looking for a chat, massage, and see where it went form there. She thought that sounded great. 2 hours 200 EU. She arrived as arranged and dressed in a black dress. We chatted for about a 45 min while she sipped tea and we chatted about Moscow nightlife, her life, etc.

When it came time to move to the massage portion she undressed and I will only say that her pictures on the website are either not recent or photoshopped. She is I suppose what one would expect of a 35 year old provider in Moscow who has been in the game for quite some time. It was not something that I could not accept but it certainly was not what I expected based on her website.

This is where it all began to go sideways. Her cell began to ring which she asked if she could answer. So of course. Fine. Drunk guy. She hung up on him and about 3 minutes later he called back. Again rude exchange and a hang up. Okay. No problem. I can come back from that.

She then proceeded to give me one of the worst massages I have received. Which lasted maybe 10. 15 minutes. She then laid down on my back and said that she was tired and not a "specialist in this" but that she knew masseuses that could do 12 a day. So I thought this was pretty weak and not really relevant and wished that one of them was there then.

So, I flip over and she lays down beside me. So we lay like that for maybe 5 or 10 min while we caressed each other. At this point I'm wondering WTF is going on. So I kind of begin hinting with body posturing that maybe she could give some attention to a little lower. Which she would occasionally dip down to. But not linger. Finally I sat up and began to "make out" a bit with her kissing her neck and ear and she finally began to give me some attention. At this point we hit the wall.

I laid back waiting for a nice CBJ (I RTFF and knew she was supposedly a CBJ only girl which I personally like from the risk/reward standpoint). What happened instead was she said. And I quote "What would you like me to do now. " So. I said well I would like a blowjob and added that I was not full service. She responded to this as some sort of escalation or added service. She then said. And I quote, "Don't act like you are doing me some great favor by allowing me to give you a blowjob". Now. I have heard some crazy ass shit but never have I heard a prostitute complain about giving a CBJ to a client for 200 euro.

Of course I wanted my monies worth so I asked what the problem was. Which she said was that I had "confused" her and that now I wanted something that she did not expect. So I said well that is what I want. She then crossed the final line when she looked at me, sighed, and said that this was unusual, she was not used to this one way street. WTF? ! ? ! We are not talking about an 18 yr old hottie on her first mission here. I had no emotional or physical desire to have sex or perform oral sex on this woman. I was a client paying money for a service. If she wanted me to get her off then maybe it was time to renegotiate!

I got up incredulous and left the room to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and figure out wtf just happened. I decided then and there to end the date and asked her to leave. I also informed her of my disappointment, why I was disappointed, and that I felt she was unprofessional. Her defense was that she was not a machine. Huh. I was nice, paid her 200EU, and was insulted and unsatisfied but she was the one who was wronged.

Whatever.

Buyer beware on this one.

Someone give me some decent recon on a PROFESSIONAL provider who speaks English and is willing to provide a chat, massage, and HJ / cbj for a 2 hour / 200 EU or less.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Strike,

It doesn't look good; the sites are designed in English and phone numbers and rates are only available if you become a member. I doubt if you will get much out of these sites, but then, miracles can happen.

The main escort sites for Moscow are intimcity.ru and dosug.nu. Rusdosug.com is a sister site to intimcity, but it also offers an English version. There is also a site called dosug.sextalk.ru, which is sponsored by sextalk, but it is exclusively in Russian.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. How about some of the girls in this site:

[url]http://www.x-love.ru/[/url]

Are they legitimate? Some of the girls looks very hot and they offer incalls services but in one profile I saw some pics that belongs to a Hungarian Pornstar called Sophie Moone in one profile too bad.

Maybe I can find more info on: sextalk.ru