Moscow

[QUOTE=Piper1]

El Kapitan is simply wrong in saying that paying for intimate time with a woman is only a business transaction. No need for me to explain - he already knows this, which is clear from his last few posts.[/QUOTE]

Piper

I have to disagree with this statement

It is clearly a business transaction in the girl’s minds.

Why else would they call us “Wallets” and spend time with men when the only interest is money.

Don’t get me wrong, personally I love this setup. I can have sex with a gorgeous service oriented woman ½ my age, and then be free to go drink beer with the boys. Life is good.

It’s a bad sign that as Moscow becomes more westernized the service provided appears to be slipping. Many more complaints in the past couple of years.

If we mongers get ripped off in Russia its because we allowed it to happen. “NO” is a very effective word in this type of a situation.

El Kapitan made a mistake in paying, the service rendered was a rip off. He should have ended the session and spent his 200-euro on one of the many thousands of other girls that are available and more than willing to please.

We can find overpriced, difficult bitchy women at our homes.

No reason to travel for that.

In the area I call home a new trend is some hookers are now refusing getting naked, touching, blow jobs or sex with all clients. They do however provide the opportunity to spend $300-500 an hour. It’s a joke……

I hate to see Moscow pussy heaven moving that direction.

This is not the first negative report I have heard on Helana.

The other monger felt that both quality and value were lacking and would not repeat the experience.


Helana

You know why we men travel long distances to Russia.

It’s not to hear you speak English.

Bottom line is we go for great looking, serviced oriented women who will deliver as requested. It’s all about the women’s attitude. IMHO

Perhaps you are tired of the working life and would be better suited taking your language skills into another profession. Just a thought…..

Guido88

I Totally Agree With You!

Just three underlines:

- Always and anyway, all females like just cock and/or money, in different ways, but this is an universal law.

- There is the "woman trouble" where American/Western culture has arrived. Woman is a trouble in USA (see the thread), woman is a trouble in Europe, woman is becoming a trouble in Kiev and woman is becoming a trouble in Russia too.

- I often said to mongers "don't inflationate pussy market", but everybody doesn't mind that and now an easy pussy fucking is expensive: this is our end thanks to mongers' foolinesh.

[QUOTE=Guido88]Piper

I have to disagree with this statement

It is clearly a business transaction in the girl’s minds.

Why else would they call us “Wallets” and spend time with men when the only interest is money.

Don’t get me wrong, personally I love this setup. I can have sex with a gorgeous service oriented woman ½ my age, and then be free to go drink beer with the boys. Life is good.

It’s a bad sign that as Moscow becomes more westernized the service provided appears to be slipping. Many more complaints in the past couple of years.

If we mongers get ripped off in Russia its because we allowed it to happen. “NO” is a very effective word in this type of a situation.

El Kapitan made a mistake in paying, the service rendered was a rip off. He should have ended the session and spent his 200-euro on one of the many thousands of other girls that are available and more than willing to please.

We can find overpriced, difficult bitchy women at our homes.

No reason to travel for that.

In the area I call home a new trend is some hookers are now refusing getting naked, touching, blow jobs or sex with all clients. They do however provide the opportunity to spend $300-500 an hour. It’s a joke……

I hate to see Moscow pussy heaven moving that direction.

This is not the first negative report I have heard on Helana.

The other monger felt that both quality and value were lacking and would not repeat the experience.


Helana

You know why we men travel long distances to Russia.

It’s not to hear you speak English.

Bottom line is we go for great looking, serviced oriented women who will deliver as requested. It’s all about the women’s attitude. IMHO

Perhaps you are tired of the working life and would be better suited taking your language skills into another profession. Just a thought…..

Guido88[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Guido88]We can find overpriced, difficult bitchy hookers at our homes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and no need to be very intuitive nor very smart to guess that Helena stands high in this category.

Anyone who has read more two lines of her controvertial, opinionated and embittered posts knows what I'm talking about.

[QUOTE=Cruiser D]What kind of logic are you using to figure that one out? I agree with the first part..but the second.[/QUOTE]

Good point, Cruiser. I used a bad example. Ted Bundy was an outlier when it comes to serial killers, because he was indeed charming and good looking. Most of them look/behave more like Brad Pitt in Kalifornia. :)

But when one has the opportunity to trade emails/chat with someone for a while, one can sense at least a hint of their personality.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]As I've stated before, in my experience when a pro encounter went bad it was often just as much my fault as hers. Even in a pro encounter some sort of mood or vibe develops, whether positive, neutral or negative. Sometimes MY mood, my vibe or my attitude just wasn't right. Especially in an atmosphere in which vocal communication is either not possible or limited by language, other factors such as body language and non-verbal communication are even more important than they would be in a normal encounter in which there was a language basis.
[/QUOTE]

Doc - agree with you 100% here. I've only had a handful of bad experiences with WGs, but most of them I chalk up to either a) excessive alcohol imparing my selection process or b) lack of communication up-front on what both of us can expect. What knowledge I've gleaned from years of whoring really boils down to that - effective selection and setting clear expectations. Used to be that I would pick a girl based entirely on looks and once I got her home, I would find she didn't want to kiss me, rejected DATY, etc... It's perfectly fine to discuss all that in advance, especially if you're in a bar/club, and in fact it often arouses the girl to do so. Ad if you're doing salons, out-call, or in-call, you can also clarify all that in advance.

[QUOTE=Hecker]A second class playing games and doing tricks is further unacceptable. For example what does ''not full service'' mean? Why not define it? Does it mean massage + HJ, massage + HJ + BJ, massage + HJ + BJ + DFK, or sth else? You have to define it. Noone is expected to know beforehand what the other means by the expression ''not full service'' which is supposed to cause positive thoughts in escort's mind (I will be paid by sb who wants only to talk, sth which happens in some cases of escorts' clients).

In my opinion it is not necessary to cause any positive thoughts in escort's minds. You just tell what you have in mind and see if she agrees. For example ''anal is possible? '', ''is it possible to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] you? '', ''is it possible that you lick my anus? '' etc, so they agree or not and you know the prices and the possibilities. Of course they can steal you afterwards in terms of time, for example by appearing late but usually what is agreed beforehand is carried out the way it was agreed.[/QUOTE]

Hecker, yes, I do agree with you, but... hell, there's just something about my Protestant upbringing. You can talk till you're blue in the face, but in each kind of transaction there are certain, basic minimum standards of service that the client has a right to expect and that cannot be explained away through "...oh, you should have specified". If you pay 200 bucks to a pro then you have a right to expect that a simple BJ is included. End of story.

[QUOTE=Pizdyets]It's perfectly fine to discuss all that in advance, especially if you're in a bar/club, and in fact it often arouses the girl to do so. And if you're doing salons, out-call, or in-call, you can also clarify all that in advance.[/QUOTE]We probably should correct a statement that El Kapitan made in his post. Despite what he said, prostitution is not illegal in Russia. It's OK to discuss prices and services freely with women, whether over the phone or over the internet or in person. The vice squad is not going to jump you and haul you away.

One of the wonderful things about Russian women is that they typically have very few "complexes" about sex, at least not if you're in the proper venue.

If you walk into a strip club and you're not sure if sex is possible on the premises, just ask the hostess or offitsanka, "Can I have sex in here?". She will respond very matter-of-factly; either, "No, that's not possible here", or, "Yes, of course", and proceed to outline all the of the various possibilities and prices. If one of the dancers strikes your fancy and you'd like to fuck her, then all you have to do is ask her, "Can I fuck you?", and she will respond very matter-of-factly; either, "No, I'm not here for sex, I just dance", or she will say, "Yes, of course, what would like?" If you want anal sex, then just ask her, "Can I fuck you in the ass?", and she might say, "No, I'm not into that", or she might say "OK, but I charge an extra 1000 rubles for that service."

For someone who is accustomed to living in sex prison, it takes a little getting used to, but, as Pizdyets has pointed out, once you get used to the idea, just the process of negotiation can be a turn on.

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]Freddy, if I say here what sort of client YOU are, how you look, smell and behave, if Victoria comfirms this, you will shut your mouth for a long time. We all remember your shitty reports about almost each provider you met, and I'm sure that in most most cases the only reason for them was your shitty character and personality. [/QUOTE]

Execuse me, Helena, but this is not good enough. If people dare to disagree with you, or godforbid criticise you, then that's because they're not right in their heads??? What happened to the old adage "the client is king"? Sam Walton famously once said "My attitude toward the client must be, oh, don't mind me. I'm just the owner". It seems your attitude is "Hey, I'm the owner! I demand respect! If you're not satisfied you can just eff off!!"

Will someone please stick a fork in this thread? I think it's done.

For any of you who are not native English speakers, this is a late 20th century colloquialism for suggesting that a topic has been discussed to the point where it will yield no more useful information.

I think we have reached this point in this thread after 26 (including mine) posts (#2314 - #2339) where all that is to follow is name calling and accusations. Clearly there are differences in values and opinions and I doubt very much whether additional discussion is going to change anyone's mind one way or the other.

I know this is not a formal meeting but I would like to make a motion that this current topic come to and end. Let's move on.......

Anyone want to second the motion?

[QUOTE=Jake993]Will someone please stick a fork in this thread? I think it's done.

For any of you who are not native English speakers, this is a late 20th century colloquialism for suggesting that a topic has been discussed to the point where it will yield no more useful information.

I think we have reached this point in this thread after 26 (including mine) posts (#2314 - #2339) where all that is to follow is name calling and accusations. Clearly there are differences in values and opinions and I doubt very much whether additional discussion is going to change anyone's mind one way or the other.

I know this is not a formal meeting but I would like to make a motion that this current topic come to and end. Let's move on.......

Anyone want to second the motion?[/QUOTE]Golden words, Jake ;) Do you have any news?

Please forgive if this is the wrong area

I will stay 5/6 days in Moscow next week (3rd time in my life) and me and my friend (that lives in M and speaks a bit of russian and I understand a bit too) want to go 'outiside Moscow' just for the weekend (max 1/2/3 train hours): where can we go to enjoy local girls? I think that prices will drop outside Moscow.

Thank you

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]Priamos, king is a person born in a royal family and sitting in a trone. Client is a person who pays for service. See the difference? Client is in the same position with a person offering service. Because they exchange equivalent things. Client doesn't pay more than service costs and he doesn't pay less. He pays as agreed. Both client and provider can be right or wrong, there is no previllage for anyone. This is not a vertical transaction, but straigtly horizontal. As for this "It seems your attitude is "Hey, I'm the owner! I demand respect! If you're not satisfied you can just eff off!!" - I don't understand what surprises you. I own my time, business, body, mind and so on. If you come to me for service, from the beginning I treat you with respect for granted. Not for being a client, but because I have no reason for other sort of attitude to a person I don't know. I do expect the same in return. From the beginning I don't cheat you and try to make things clear. And I do expect the same in return. If to respect a person and being honest for you is a problem, we will never find common language. Search for someone who accepts the attitude "Serve me, I'm a king because I pay", "I treat you like shit because I pay", "I don't have to respect you because I pay". You are also the owner of your time, body, money and other stuff. May be with this attitude you manage to come to agreement with some slave from BDSM community, but I bet even he (or she) will insist on discussing the game from beginning to end and setting up the limits. Paying agreed price doesn't give you the right to rise your self-esteem on another person't expence. It only gives you the right to receive the agreed service on the conditions matching both sides. Try to say you are a king somewhere else, let's say in a private club or shop and see what happens ;))) It's same anywhere.[/QUOTE]Very good description of the russian concept of service.

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]Golden words, Jake ;) Do you have any news?[/QUOTE]
Well, during the month of September, I spent 7 nights at home and the rest of the month in Moscow, Kiev, Ashgabat, Sao Paulo, and Rio de Janeiro. Hey! that's sex on four continents in one month.

News? Heck yes! I'd say that's news!

[QUOTE=Jake993]Will someone please stick a fork in this thread? I think it's done.

For any of you who are not native English speakers, this is a late 20th century colloquialism for suggesting that a topic has been discussed to the point where it will yield no more useful information.

I think we have reached this point in this thread after 26 (including mine) posts (#2314 - #2339) where all that is to follow is name calling and accusations. Clearly there are differences in values and opinions and I doubt very much whether additional discussion is going to change anyone's mind one way or the other.

I know this is not a formal meeting but I would like to make a motion that this current topic come to and end. Let's move on.......

Anyone want to second the motion?[/QUOTE]


Second on the motion


Strav’s and Pizdyets comments on how to negotiate the best service with “ANY” provider are spot on. Posts 2335 and 2337.

Part of the problem are mongers coming from sex prison “USA” who are unaccustomed to being so straightforward on their needs.

From my experience you can say almost anything to a Russian woman without offending them. The more direct the better.

However this is a lesson I had to learn as well.

Reminds of the evening when Lukasek asks 15 women lined up in a in salon

“Who takes it in the ass? “

Classic moment you could not get away with in many locations in the world.

Overall my satisfaction rate in Russia is 99%, far better than anywhere else in the world.

Guido88

I just came back to Moscow to read what has transpired...interesting.

I was in Berlin had had two wonderful meetings for a great massage with a very happy and satisfied endings.

So now that I'm back on the land of Lenin where can I go or who I can see to repeat this experience?

To Stravinsky, I'll be in MOW off and on for at least another 2 weeks.

I look forward to the responses.