[QUOTE=Tomjackin;1676838]Good luck! Clowns like him are only powerful through typing. And a waste of time meeting in person.[/QUOTE]Well Tom IMO it's better than relying on power from booze.
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[QUOTE=Tomjackin;1676838]Good luck! Clowns like him are only powerful through typing. And a waste of time meeting in person.[/QUOTE]Well Tom IMO it's better than relying on power from booze.
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1676900] I can imagine going to one of the wholesale clubs where they have venders set up in the isles offering customers samples of food items. And then after the customer tastes and enjoys the item, tell them they have to pay for the sample they just had. [/QUOTE]I had one of them offer me some kind of flavored yoghurt the other day and it was so disgusting that I actually had to spit it out and the taste was still in my mouth an hour later until I ate something else with a strong flavor to get rid of it.
But these encounters are usually fleeting. I think if you took up a couple of hours of the time of one of those vendors, it would be good manners to buy at least one pack of the product.
Look, I'm not saying that anyone automatically owes a chica money for taking up her time in a bar and then deciding not to take her out, just that people need to be aware that the chicas are there to earn a living and show reasonable consideration and not be surprised if they are a bit pissed off if a couple of hours of heavy flirtation goes nowhere.
Remember that in the US people actually pay real money for lap dances, or so I have heard, something that has no financial value in the DR at all, and also pay cash for one-on-one Spanish language conversation classes for that matter.
Yes, you have correctly observed that people are not actually having sex in bars. Well done!
[QUOTE=RonnyRon;1676899]What is wrong with this guy? Do you want to go to WAR with everyone. Jackson, please create a thread and only allow him to post there. This guy is the village idiot for sure! Are you sure you aren't Sarah Palin??
RR.[/QUOTE]What makes me an idiot? I only state fact.
WTF Is Wrong With you Guys? You're fighting and fussing like a bunch of bitches. No one of you is crying for Jackson because you don't like what another man thinks when he pats for pussy. All you are full of it. None of you know what the fuck you're talking about, because none of it matters if you have money. It's all about you putting money in a chica's hand and she gives you get a nutt! Do you think the hoes are putting this much thought and conversation about Sosua?? LOL! Fuckery!
[QUOTE=Rahsta;1676780]Believe me you have to tell these chicas what you want. I have been in and witness many cases where the chemistry was good and things turn once the bedroom door closed. Some of those chicas want something for nothing. Those "Sauve papi" and "papi leche" chicas kill me with that bullshit.[/QUOTE]True! One of my buddies who is in Sosua for a month, has had his share of enough instances where he found out after he got a chica back to his spot that her BJ service was covered. Something he is not interested in. So, he says now before he takes a new chica back to his spot, he attempts to get that straight beforehand. The disadvantage for enough mongers is they can successfully negotiate for a type of service, but fall short because they can't really negotiate with a chica for quality of service or performance. What you get is what the chica provides. After the deed is done, that's when you know what you paid for.
[QUOTE=Frannie;1676906]But these encounters are usually fleeting. I think if you took up a couple of hours of the time of one of those vendors, it would be good manners to buy at least one pack of the product.
Look, I'm not saying that anyone automatically owes a chica money for taking up her time in a bar and then deciding not to take her out, just that people need to be aware that the chicas are there to earn a living and show reasonable consideration and not be surprised if they are a bit pissed off if a couple of hours of heavy flirtation goes nowhere.
Remember that in the US people actually pay real money for lap dances, or so I have heard, something that has no financial value in the DR at all, and also pay cash for one-on-one Spanish language conversation classes for that matter.[/QUOTE]Thats where enough folks differ from folks like yourself. You may be wired to behave like you should pay for a product out of some belief system. But that belief system is not a right or wrong matter. In other words, a person who elects not to pay for a product is no less being mannerly than the person who takes it upon themselves to buy the product. Which essentially is done IMO from feeling guilty for taking or enjoying something they didn't pay for, but was offered for free. In most instances, the individuals offering the samples arent being manipulative, it's just that enough people are wired to internalize and emote guilt and / or a sense of obligation based on their belief system. So they pay for shit they may not even want.
Tying it into mongering. This is one reason why a lot of dudes fall for giving their money way to beggars, touts, the hustling kids, chicas asking for pesos, beer etc. Enough individuals have internalized guilt mechanisms, making them easy targets. So now when in the club, and some chica comes over to talk, get drinks, pesos or food from a dude, some guys don't know how to respond to being approached. They may feel saying no, will make them look bad. Or if they say no, it still triggers feelings of guilt and / or they don't like seeing a chica bust out with an attitude by not complying with a simple request.
However, there are more than enough mongers who arent wired like that. They treat chicas, touts, beggars venders accordingly. They don't feel the need to always give their money away, especially without some form of commensurate reciprocation. The lowest form being them receiving sincere appreciation, for what was given / offered to others.
The thing I am trying to get across here is this. In a previous post you gave clear suggestions for what mongers could or should be doing to protect their interests. Makes sense. But at the same time, as a man you have virtually zero to say for women when it comes to a womans own responsibility to protect her own interests. Your concern for men protecting their own interests kinda supports a dual motivation. You want men to protect their own interests, but then suggest that men could be protecting womens interests as well.
I have been advocating, that both need to take responsibility for their own interests, independently. And that we don't need men telling other men what to do to protect women from themselves. When a woman decides to step to a man to flirt, get felt up, waste time with him, the onus is on her to deal with the consequences, especially for not informing some dude that she is owed compensation if he decides not to take her back to his place pay for sex. You want to put the responsibility on men to be thoughtful and reasonably considerate towards a female for spending time ( in the club/bar ) with a dude. Hogwash. Let that female take responsibility for her own behavior. Let that female show some reasonable consideration by understanding that no man is obligated to pay a chica just because she offers a comfort or company.(in a club/bar )
Shit, just as much as he is enjoying her company, his company has value too. What he has to offer may be substantially better than what she has going on. Anything she does to get further than a meeting in a club, there are no guarantees that she will leave with that dude. That is what those females need to get straight, and not get pissed when some dude doesn't take them. And besides, if being compensated for her time is that important to her, then maybe they better change their MO, and start stating the prices for their company up front ( in the club/bar ). And if they arent going to do that, then don't get pissed with dudes that don't want to pay cash, or don't even have a clue he was running a tab because she "acted like a girlfriend" ( in the club/bar ) That can happen when you are only acting, instead of being sincere and genuine.
Again, why don't you have rules, suggestions for females in the game on how they should protect their own interests in this matter? This is the kind of stuff that is assbackwards when it comes to enough men. Enough men will tell a man what his responsibilities are to himself or towards women, but barely touch the surface when it comes to women taking responsibility for their own interests. When does good manners and reasonable consideration kick in for chicas towards mongers? Isn't it reasonably considerate to let a monger know he's running a tab on some womans company ( in the club/bar)?
Or is it, once again men are supposed to know what the deal is and express to chicas early if they arent interested. See what I mean? You got one standard of disclosure for men to inform women of their intent, but none for women towards men when they are in a mans company but expect to be paid or get pissed like the man doesn't have the right to choose somebody else. Men are supposed to remember the prostitute is working for a living? But the prostitute isn't reinforced to remember that it's the mans right to choose who he wants to be with?
Bullshit! In this instance, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I don't think men should entertain listening to anyone, who has one standard for men, and another or non existent standard for women.
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1676707]This is what I wrote my challenged friend:
"It was then that I focused on what I detected as her having an air of attitude. And seemed impatient as I was trying to get some details straight before taking her back to my spot. It was like she didn't want the interview process to continue, just that her and I get out of there and make it to where she may have more leverage in giving a dude a problem.[/QUOTE]LOL.
You conveniently left out the first part of your post. You "bumped into her twice before, which means that your "interview process" was at least the third meeting, before you decided not to take her.
And you tell us "it was as like she didn't want the interview process to continue".
LOL Obviously your meticulous interview technique was wasted on this puta.
We here can sympathize with her.
[QUOTE=Frannie;1676906]Look, I'm not saying that anyone automatically owes a chica money for taking up her time in a bar and then deciding not to take her out,[/QUOTE]Since you also believe no chica is automatically owed for taking up her time in a bar, when some dude decides not to take her. That suggests that there are some instances where you believe a chica should not or will not be compensated with cash if a dude doesn't take her.
So, could you please tell when a chica shouldn't get paid or when it isn't necessary? In other words, I want to know what criterior or circumstances you believe would warrant a chica (who spends time in a bar flirting, getting felt up, playing girlfriend etc) NOT getting paid when some dude decides not to take her?
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1677086]The thing I am trying to get across here is this. In a previous post you gave clear suggestions for what mongers could or should be doing to protect their interests. Makes sense. But at the same time, as a man you have virtually zero to say for women when it comes to a womans own responsibility to protect her own interests. Your concern for men protecting their own interests kinda supports a dual motivation. You want men to protect their own interests, but then suggest that men could be protecting womens interests as well.[/QUOTE]The more you write, the more you shoot yourself in the foot, because you are completely ignoring the context in which you are meeting these women in Sosua.
By an accident of birth, you have been born in a country where your passport allows you to buy a ticket to any place in the world if you can afford to buy it. However if you had been born Dominican or Haitian, your passport would only make it possible for you to visit the other half of the island you were born in, unless you go through a great deal more to prove your bona fides and get a visa to go somewhere else.
You were also born into a country where prenatal health care is available to all, free school meals if you can't afford them, subsidized health care if your parents could not afford to pay for it, free schooling, free buses to take you to school, and so on.
You were born into a country whose currency allows you to purchase the labor of people in poorer countries at very little labor cost to you. You probably earn more in an hour than the average Dominican or Haitian earns in a day. Or if you don't work, then you have a pension or inherited money that adds up to the same equivalent.
Furthermore, you have enough education to be able to get a job that pays you enough to be able to afford to frequently travel overseas.
And yet your regard these third world prostitutes who are mostly less than half your age and living from hand to mouth as your peer group!
Check your privilege so that you don't come across as the Ugly American when you travel overseas.
[QUOTE=Oakie;1677113]LOL.
You conveniently left out the first part of your post. You "bumped into her twice before, which means that your "interview process" was at least the third meeting, before you decided not to take her.
And you tell us "it was as like she didn't want the interview process to continue".
LOL Obviously your meticulous interview technique was wasted on this puta.
We here can sympathize with her.[/QUOTE]No my dimwitted friend. The other meetings were not relevant. If you researched my past post correctly, I said "Later, I got her to come to Rockys. There I started my interview process. It was then that I focused on what I detected as her having an air of attitude. ".
You got it now my dimwitted comrade? You had it twisted like the attitude was from her having multiple meetings/interviews. I had to straighten you out before for assuming that knee jerk nonsense. But you are hardheaded.
When she got to Rockys, then I noticed she had an air of attitude. Now try not to be overly dense here. Think this thing out clearly. She didn't have an attitude the 1st time I met her. She didn't have an attitude at the playa. She was cool, and she agreed to meet later. When she got to Rockys, I noticed then something was going on. Her demeaner may have had nothing to do with me. Didn't matter. I decided I don't need someones bad vibe no matter where it came from, nor do I need to be rushed. After getting more reasons for not taking her, I informed her I was not taking her. She left pissed. You like a hyena saw me type her having an attitude and immediately jumped on that bit of information, and attributed it to her having an attitude because of the two meetings previously she wasnt taken.
Which was just you being a typical DH on this forum. But I hope you got it straight? If not? No problem. I got you covered buddy.
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1677123]No my dimwitted friend. The other meetings were not relevant. If you researched my past correctly, I said "Later, I got her to come to Rockys. There I started my interview process. It was then that I focused on what I detected as her having an air of attitude. ".
You got it now my dimwitted comrade? When she got to Rockys, then I noticed she had an air of attitude. Now try not to be overly dense here. Think this thing out clearly. She didn't have an attitude the 1st time I met her. She didn't have an attitude at the playa. When she got to Rockys, I noticed then something was going on. Her demeaner may have had nothing to do with me. Didn't matter. I decided I don't need someones bad vibe no matter where it came from, nor do I need to be rushed. Afterward I informed her I was not taking her, she left pissed. You like a hyena saw me type her having an attitude and immediately juped on that bit of information, and attributed her attitude to the chica not being taken the 1st two times.
Which was just you being a typical DH on this forum. But I hope you got it straight? If not? No problem. I got you covered buddy.[/QUOTE]I rest my case! :)
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1677118]Since you also believe no chica is automatically owed for taking up her time in a bar, when some dude decides not to take her. That suggests that there are some instances where you believe a chica should not or will not be compensated with cash if a dude doesn't take her.
So, could you please tell when a chica shouldn't get paid or when it isn't necessary? In other words, I want to know what criterior or circumstances you believe would warrant a chica (who spends time in a bar flirting, getting felt up, playing girlfriend etc) NOT getting paid when some dude decides not to take her?[/QUOTE]When the guy didn't deliberately string her along or give her false hopes of a paid sex date, and didn't take up her time for an unnecessarily long time if he knew he wasn't going to exit with her. When she aggressively pursued him and he made it clear he was not interested, but she persisted anyway. When he had paid her for sex in the past, but didn't want to repeat.
Anyway payment or tipping is all relative. If it was very late at night, he might make sure she had enough money to get a taxi home to Puerto Plata or wherever, which might just be 50 pesos for the publico plus 50 pesos for a motoconcho at the other end. Or if she hadn't eaten all evening or all day, maybe 100 pesos to get a burrito or a piece of chicken or something. Hardly more than what you would spend to tip the barmaid for serving you some beers.
Actually I didn't say in previous posts that one should necessarily pay the chica for wasted time, just you should not be surprised if she is angry at being strung along and then discarded, if she has invested time on your behalf and passed by other opportunities. However since you have raised the topic, it might be appropriate to give her a small gratuity as outlined above, however be careful that you don't create a situation where she thinks she can come to you any time she needs 100 pesos for something.
[QUOTE=Frannie;1677119]The more you write, the more you shoot yourself in the foot, because you are completely ignoring the context in which you are meeting these women in Sosua.
By an accident of birth, you have been born in a country where your passport allows you to buy a ticket to any place in the world if you can afford to buy it. However if you had been born Dominican or Haitian, your passport would only make it possible for you to visit the other half of the island you were born in, unless you go through a great deal more to prove your bona fides and get a visa to go somewhere else.
You were also born into a country where prenatal health care is available to all, free school meals if you can't afford them, subsidized health care if your parents could not afford to pay for it, free schooling, free buses to take you to school, and so on.
You were born into a country whose currency allows you to purchase the labor of people in poorer countries at very little labor cost to you. You probably earn more in an hour than the average Dominican or Haitian earns in a day. Or if you don't work, then you have a pension or inherited money that adds up to the same equivalent.
Furthermore, you have enough education to be able to get a job that pays you enough to be able to afford to frequently travel overseas.
[RED]And yet your regard these third world prostitutes who are mostly less than half your age and living from hand to mouth as your peer group![/RED]
Check your privilege so that you don't come across as the Ugly American when you travel overseas.[/QUOTE]Frannie, I'm not entertaining any of that. Just address the issues I presented to you. Don't deflect from the issues and make this about me, like the other numnuts. I challenged you to give me reasons to support your position, and you also have the opportunity to tell me why what I said is wrong or carries no weight.
I gave you my perspective, and I explained in detail so you can grasp it. Thats all I need back from you.
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;1677132]Frannie, I'm not entertaining any of that. Just address the issues I presented to you. Don't deflect from the issues and make this about me, like the other numnuts. I challenged you to give me reasons to support your position, and you also have the opportunity to tell me why what I said is wrong or carries no weight.
I gave you my perspective, and I explained in detail so you can grasp it. Thats all I need back from you.[/QUOTE]Yes, it is relevant because you find the notion that you might have any kind of duty of care towards these poor women anathema.
In my opinion, although the Hippocratic oath is not strictly speaking relevant to the situation, the dictum that you should "do no harm" is a useful one and I would rather err on the side of generosity than going to the other extreme. Many of these young women have been abused in some way during their developmental process, and while, like you, I don't want to hear all the details and sob stories, I also want to rest easy that I have not contributed any further hardship to their lives.
So I think it is reasonable to treat them with consideration and does no harm to try to imagine how they might perceive a night in Sosua from their perspective as well as yours. I think a lot of the "sex dates gone bad" stories are the result of mutual lack of empathy and failure to communicate, and that guys will get better sexual experiences if they adopt my point of view rather than yours.
[QUOTE=Rahsta;1676882]Believe me, its not me. The chicas pull that same bullshit to my wingmen and other guys I know. Shit like that doesn't happen to me in Rio and Costa Rica. The chicas have alot to do with it. Please beleive.[/QUOTE]In that case you are better off going to Costa Rica or Brazil unless there are factors other than sex that draw you to the DR.
Personally I started to go to the DR several years ago precisely because it afforded opportunities to have casual sex with attractive young women who were not the kind of hardened drug-addict hookers that one might find in the US, but rather normal young women who just needed some extra money to supplement their low income jobs or lack of employment and who were functioning members of the community in other respects, and over the years I have had many excellent sexual relationships, both long term and short term, with Dominican women and although I have no idea of the number, it could be about 200 mas o menos.
Obviously some sexual encounters would be better than others, but when they turned out to be a bust, I would quickly cut bait, then get back in the saddle again to look for a better experience to wipe out any lingering disappointment.
Somewhere along the line I switched my focus to Haitian women as I found them to be more simpatico.
I am pretty much retired from mongering now. I can take it or leave it, and while I enjoy an occasional encounter, it is not very much the focus of my life. Last time I was in Sosua, I don't remember even seeing a hooker and didn't go in any of the bars.
So maybe the type of chica I like is no longer available, I don't know. But if you are not finding what you want in the DR, then it is best to go somewhere else.