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I really is not my favourite thing to do quoting myself, but please refer to my post in this collumn dated the 24th of April where I stated the same thing as OTH stated in his post today.
I guess great minds run on the same channel, eh!(just joking!)
Even though I do not live in Thailand, I at least credit myself with having some knowledge of how men think as I am able to identify with a great amount of mens' motives and motivations and the actions generated from same.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...If you're living here, there are many opportunities to meet nice girls who, believe it or not don't have the single-minded agenda of fleecing you for everything you've got, and with whom you can form mutually-rewarding and meaningful relationships...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but then you must become a lier and a cheat, or else give up all the other pretty little girls. :(
[QUOTE=Daddy07]Yeah, but then you must become a lier and a cheat, or else give up all the other pretty little girls. :([/QUOTE]
Daddy
You're still a newby here. So, it's all still exciting. But, you will reach a point (hopefully quickly) when you get sick of these particular kind of girls. It's happened to pretty well everyone I know. I don't care what P4P appologists say, these girls are uninteresting and generally pretty stupid, not to mention completely fucked in the head, and become a huge pain to be around, even for the allotted time it takes for short-time. When you learn enough of the lingo (meaning Isaan, not Thai) to understand what they gossip about with each other, it's pretty clear how limited they are in their thought processes and how screwed up they are. I never used to let on that I could understand them, always pretending to be fresh off the plane. Even when they knew me, it never occurred to them that a Farang could understand their Isaan "code". Listening to their mind-numbing, endless twaddle was what initially turned me off the whole bar scene.
Anyway... I was mainly talking about quality, in my post, not especially committment to a single girl. You can still have more than one girl, if that's your thing. It's very Thai to have a main relationship and maybe a Gig on the side. I've been that route too. Now, I've become more or less monogamous and am happy to be so because I have someone of real quality and don't want to risk blowing it.
But, to each his own. Just don't settle for used, damaged goods when you can find something a hell of a lot better. That's my point.
[QUOTE=Appcid]I have been talking to some Thai gals from Thai love links. IM has been fun and am agreeing to meet some. [/QUOTE]
Someone (in Australia??) is making a killing off these dating (TLL, AE,CLL) sites because they all seem to be under one umbrella but I am not convinced about the wholesome integrity of any of these sites. I got a kick out of them years ago and most recently when I played around on Asian Euro which seems to be the most diverse of the group of sites but with tons of Filipinos. I actually conducted my own social experiment on the Thai, Chinese and AE sites and may share those results here one day; the results actually confirmed some of the things some members here have written about in the past. Oh, on AE I saw a pic of an older woman who had previously worked in Nana but to her credit, she did not try to camouflage her profile, she was upfront about who she was and said she is only looking for friends to chat. Somehow I don't think she is getting too many IMs as a standard member because she has a face that is honestly, aesthetically challenging.
Not all the girls on those sites are normal girls (whatever that means and whoever they are), some are straight out of the night life and you can pretty much gauge by the dialogue who is who. The display pictures are not always of the girls and maybe the same can be said for the men but I can't speak to that because for obvious reasons I never chatted with any of them. There's a platoon of IMs from people living in Africa who never have any display pictures and their dialogue are all the same. They will invite you to yahoo messenger and send you pics of beautiful models then sucker you into their trap. They are so amateurish though I can’t imagine anyone falling for what they are selling but who knows.
Most of the girls are in internet cafes and are relatively young and attractive but in my experience many of them had their own agendas. Many were from Khon Khen, Chaing Mai and Udon but there were also many from good ole BKK. There are some old hags on there too, some I saw were in their 50s I chatted with a few of them just to say hello but who can blame them for trying. Again though not sure what they accomplished from being on those sites. Some of the girls were brutally honest and would want to meet right away and some wanted to play the dating game. To me, it was fun stuff to do when I was bored and although the sites are boasting about how successful they are in making successful connection for many couples, I remain skeptical. I think these sites are an alternative option to the regular route mongers take like go-go, FLs, massages shops etc, because you can generate many phone numbers, contacts and pictures and even a good sexhibition show now and again. I have a friend in the PI who met his wife on the Filipina Hearts site so I know it can work but it took some effort before he met her. The sites are also good for fun and chatting and perhaps if you stick with them you can meet that special someone but I suspect people in that last group are in the minority. The one thing I have is a slew of phone numbers, pictures and email addresses should I ever need them on a rainy day. Unfortunately (for them?) or fortunately (for me?) I don't think I will ever need them any time soon.
Run Mann
I agree with you about these sites. But, I think that a few years ago there was some legitimacy about them in that the women were mostly what they said they were and certainly few, if any were pros. I met about 65 in person from both AsianEuro and ThaiLovelinks. Of those, only two turned out to be bargirls and I met both of them within the last year or so. Before that, all of the ones I met seemed to be regular TGs - students, office workers, shopgirls, tour guides, teachers; even two who were lawyers and another who was a parliamentary assistant.
AsianEuro was taken over some time ago by money-grubbing Filipinas and ThaiLovelinks increasingly seems to be made up of thinly disguised girls from P4P.
I had many good and several quite frightening experiences which I relayed some time ago in a post about this.
I had pretty well decided that these sites were definitely not the place to find a serious relationship, when 2 years ago I met my current GF on TLL. She had only been a member for a couple of days (as a lark with a couple of her friends from school), I snagged her fast, and she's turned out to be a true gem. But, I agree with you that this kind of success is very rare.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
...If you're living here, there are many opportunities to meet nice girls who, believe it or not don't have the single-minded agenda of fleecing you for everything you've got, and with whom you can form mutually-rewarding and meaningful relationships. The problem is, that a lot of guys simply don't know how to go about meeting a decent Thai woman, so take the easy way out.
[/QUOTE]
OTH is absolutely spot-on with this post. It's not easy to break into Thai culture and meet really decent non-P4P Thai woman; but, it's much more satisfying once you do. I was able to do it after a couple of years and I have never regreted the decision. Bar girls get very boring quickly.
RA
I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.
[QUOTE=Opebo]I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's you who's boring, not the girls, and maybe you aren't particularly adept at dealing with normal girls and normal relationships, given your proclivity for risky and aberrant behaviour in P4P. You come across as an intelligent, but incredibly corrupt and morally bankrupt individual.
Personally, I've never had a P4P girl even come close in ability to many of the regular TGs I've had. Not to mention that, contrary to what you say, most educated, middle-class Thai women are far more interesting to be with and to interract with than the boring, 2-dimensional, screwed-up girls in P4P. They're also generally much better looking than P4P girls, IMO and know how to behave properly when out in social situations. There's simply no comparison.
Your phrase about "P4P options"...being "taken from us" reveals so much about you. Who the hell do you think you are and why do you think you have some right to P4P here?
My desire to see the end of or at least reduction in prostitution in Thailand, as has happened in Korea is a recognition of the need to see Thailand develop properly as a nation, particularly in social equality, which would give these girls the education, they so desperately need and as a result give them other more culturally acceptable options to make a decent living and have decent lives. There is much that needs to be done in this regard: better schools and more industry and technology creating jobs in Isaan, with much better salaries.
Someone such as you, who by your own admission in several previous posts wants to keep these girls poor and ignorant so that you can have a continuous source of cheap pussy is nothing short of a social pariah and worse.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Daddy ... You're still a newby here. So, it's all still exciting. But, you will reach a point (hopefully quickly) when you get sick of these particular kind of girls. It's happened to pretty well everyone I know... [/QUOTE]
Ok, I understand that young, beautiful, pure, sweet, unused, undamaged girls of premium quality can be found offering meaningful relationships far more intellectually and sexually fulfilling than those possible with the P4P hotties. It’s true! Having lived in Thailand only 6 months now, I’ve already had a few such golden opportunities for domestic bliss.
Suppose, like you, I decide to acquire one. Then what? I’m 62. She’s barely in her 20’s. Her mom and pop are younger than me – maybe 10 or even 20 years younger. Her adult life is just starting. I’m retired. She wants to start a family soon; have babies. Should I father her little babies? My daughter is old enough to be her mother. She thrives in her interactions with friends and family. I like to live alone. She likes to party, dance, and socialize. Again, I like to be alone. I want to relax and stay home. She wants one man for love, family and financial support. I want to fuck and fondle every pretty young girl I see. The relationship is like a lovely flower, and just like a pretty young flower, all too soon the bloom is off the rose. It’s just not fair for either side.
My fantasy has always been to someday enjoy a sex life much like the biblical King Solomon, an Arab Sultan, or an Egyptian Pharaoh. These guys had harems full of nubile young puppies, all trained to provide sexual services fit for a king. They chose their bedtime companions the same as they plucked the very best fruit from the trees. They had favorites as well as new lovelies available 24/7 -- an endless erotic variety at their beck and call.
I am living that fantasy now in Pattaya Thailand. And I have it much better than all the historical kings and other potentates because I can have as much feminine services and company as I desire without the necessity to support them and their families beyond the $15-$50 they demand for each session. Who cares about their intelligence or life interests? Love abounds, but not domestic love. (Something has to be sacrificed for this fantasy to succeed) It’s a win-win situation. It’s fair.
So, if you want family and babies and intellectual stimulation along with occasional sexual gratification, by all means seek and find a good little girlfriend. You will be dead by the time the kids reach puberty, but so what? If you want to lead a happy, carefree, irresponsible life of lust and debauchery in your golden years, stick with P4P. This wonderful forum tells you where to find ‘em.
Regards,
Daddy
[QUOTE=Opebo]I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.[/QUOTE]My former "middle-class educated Thai Girlfriend" was interesting, smart, well read, and made her way through two degrees in college on loans, money from her parents (her father was a retired Army officer) and hard work, and never worked in a beer bar, or topless/gogo bar. Was she sexually satisfying to me? Oh my God, yes. She was a sexual dynamo, an orgasm machine, who was just as horny as I was, and would take care of me even when she wasn't up for it, and I was. I never messed around on her, even though one of her hottie friends was looking for some wood, and approached ME.
P4P is good for some, as is having a good girlfriend is for others. I've tried both, and can't recommend either. But I will say this - if you find a girl you are really sexually compatible with, and she's not a pain in the ass, stick with her, unless of course you just want variety every night. None of are sexually compatible with every girl we meet, even in Thailand. Sure, we'd like to think we were, but it's just not that way.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...My desire to see the end of or at least reduction in prostitution in Thailand, as has happened in Korea is a recognition of the need to see Thailand develop properly as a nation, particularly in social equality, which would give these girls the education, they so desperately need and as a result give them other more culturally acceptable options to make a decent living and have decent lives. There is much that needs to be done in this regard: better schools and more industry and technology creating jobs in Isaan, with much better salaries...[/QUOTE]I agree with this statement because I have grown to love and care about many of my Thai friends and their children, and I am well aware that the [i]de facto[/i] caste system limits what they can realistically achieve in their lives.
My question for for OTH is: how can educational and employment opportunities can be increased for those that most need them (i.e., poor folks from Isaan), without seriously upsetting the [i]status quo[/i]?
From what I've recently read it sounds like it is going the other direction and there is push to keep more folks "back on the farm" and in sweatshop factories. Of course, with this trend, [i]the daughters of Isaan[/i] will continue to sell their lithe, young bodies to meet both Thai and non-Thai demand.
[QUOTE=Daddy07]Ok, I understand that young, beautiful, pure, sweet, unused, undamaged girls of premium quality can be found offering meaningful relationships far more intellectually and sexually fulfilling than those possible with the P4P hotties. It’s true! Having lived in Thailand only 6 months now, I’ve already had a few such golden opportunities for domestic bliss.
Suppose, like you, I decide to acquire one. Then what? I’m 62. She’s barely in her 20’s. Her mom and pop are younger than me – maybe 10 or even 20 years younger. Her adult life is just starting. I’m retired. She wants to start a family soon; have babies. Should I father her little babies? My daughter is old enough to be her mother. She thrives in her interactions with friends and family. I like to live alone. She likes to party, dance, and socialize. Again, I like to be alone. I want to relax and stay home. She wants one man for love, family and financial support. I want to fuck and fondle every pretty young girl I see. The relationship is like a lovely flower, and just like a pretty young flower, all too soon the bloom is off the rose. It’s just not fair for either side.
My fantasy has always been to someday enjoy a sex life much like the biblical King Solomon, an Arab Sultan, or an Egyptian Pharaoh. These guys had harems full of nubile young puppies, all trained to provide sexual services fit for a king. They chose their bedtime companions the same as they plucked the very best fruit from the trees. They had favorites as well as new lovelies available 24/7 -- an endless erotic variety at their beck and call.
I am living that fantasy now in Pattaya Thailand. And I have it much better than all the historical kings and other potentates because I can have as much feminine services and company as I desire without the necessity to support them and their families beyond the $15-$50 they demand for each session. Who cares about their intelligence or life interests? Love abounds, but not domestic love. (Something has to be sacrificed for this fantasy to succeed) It’s a win-win situation. It’s fair.
So, if you want family and babies and intellectual stimulation along with occasional sexual gratification, by all means seek and find a good little girlfriend. You will be dead by the time the kids reach puberty, but so what? If you want to lead a happy, carefree, irresponsible life of lust and debauchery in your golden years, stick with P4P. This wonderful forum tells you where to find ‘em.
Regards,
Daddy[/QUOTE]
An excellent point of view. If there is a next time i will probably go the same route.
[QUOTE=Arizonan]My former "middle-class educated Thai Girlfriend" was interesting, smart, well read, and made her way through two degrees in college on loans, money from her parents (her father was a retired Army officer) and hard work, and never worked in a beer bar, or topless/gogo bar. Was she sexually satisfying to me? Oh my God, yes. She was a sexual dynamo, an orgasm machine, who was just as horny as I was, and would take care of me even when she wasn't up for it, and I was. I never messed around on her, even though one of her hottie friends was looking for some wood, and approached ME.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a dream girl, why did you let a catch like her get away?
[QUOTE=Daddy07]Ok, I understand that young, beautiful, pure, sweet, unused, undamaged girls of premium quality can be found offering meaningful relationships far more intellectually and sexually fulfilling than those possible with the P4P hotties. It’s true! Having lived in Thailand only 6 months now, I’ve already had a few such golden opportunities for domestic bliss.
Suppose, like you, I decide to acquire one. Then what? I’m 62. She’s barely in her 20’s. Her mom and pop are younger than me – maybe 10 or even 20 years younger. Her adult life is just starting. I’m retired. She wants to start a family soon; have babies. Should I father her little babies? My daughter is old enough to be her mother. She thrives in her interactions with friends and family. I like to live alone. She likes to party, dance, and socialize. Again, I like to be alone. I want to relax and stay home. She wants one man for love, family and financial support. I want to fuck and fondle every pretty young girl I see. The relationship is like a lovely flower, and just like a pretty young flower, all too soon the bloom is off the rose. It’s just not fair for either side.
My fantasy has always been to someday enjoy a sex life much like the biblical King Solomon, an Arab Sultan, or an Egyptian Pharaoh. These guys had harems full of nubile young puppies, all trained to provide sexual services fit for a king. They chose their bedtime companions the same as they plucked the very best fruit from the trees. They had favorites as well as new lovelies available 24/7 -- an endless erotic variety at their beck and call.
I am living that fantasy now in Pattaya Thailand. And I have it much better than all the historical kings and other potentates because I can have as much feminine services and company as I desire without the necessity to support them and their families beyond the $15-$50 they demand for each session. Who cares about their intelligence or life interests? Love abounds, but not domestic love. (Something has to be sacrificed for this fantasy to succeed) It’s a win-win situation. It’s fair.
So, if you want family and babies and intellectual stimulation along with occasional sexual gratification, by all means seek and find a good little girlfriend. You will be dead by the time the kids reach puberty, but so what? If you want to lead a happy, carefree, irresponsible life of lust and debauchery in your golden years, stick with P4P. This wonderful forum tells you where to find ‘em.
Regards,
Daddy[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t talking about getting married and having babies! I’m certainly not going to do that…at least the baby part. If you read my post, I wasn't suggesting you even get a GF. Just, move beyond P4P. It's the bottom of the barrel mate. Learn to differentiate. There's so much better out there.
I do understand how you’re feeling. But, I also think you haven’t been here long enough to know one way or the other. The novelty hasn’t worn off yet. It’s all still very exciting to have a ready and seemingly endless supply of apparently cute, sweet young things at your disposal. Let me guess. You have a number of them who call you and want to come over at anytime of the day or night. You don't even need to go out looking anymore, if you don't want. You have a little stable of girls who all apparently adore you and give you a GFE, if you want it. It all sounds so perfect.
mmmmmmmmmm....Been there…Done that…
It took me about a year before I started questioning the whole P4P scene and another year and a bit before I seriously started to extricate myself from it. Almost from the beginning, I had access to non-P4P girls, especially students. But, I still opted for P4P a lot of the time because it was just simpler and less messy. But, around the time I hit the 500th or so girl, I asked myself, “OK now what? What’s the point?” As the Thais say, “same, same.” A lot of my friends were always telling me, “get yourself a bird!”. So, I did and was with her for 4 years. She was a really great girl. But, I blew it by dumping her for a not so great girl (one of my ex-students). Of course, during the time I was together with my GF of 4 years, I wasn’t 100% loyal. But, they were all quick dalliances and she was who I always went home to. The other thing that turned me off P4P was that my taste had evolved over the course of the first couple of years I was here and I simply didn’t find the P4P girls very good looking. Now, I find most of them downright ugly. So, when I ended up being on my own again, I certainly didn’t return to P4P, but looked elsewhere. I had tasted better quality Thai flesh and wasn’t about to settle for the cheap meat that is P4P.
Everyone is of course different. But, it’s been my experience that almost every expat moves beyond P4P. However, being in LaLaLand, that likely won’t happen to you. Pattaya isn’t a normal place - it’s certainly not Thailand. So, what normally happens to expats in Thailand, likely wouldn’t happen to expats there. For one thing, you can get away with being in limbo in Pattaya; a perpetual sex tourist in a sex tourist hole. You can’t really do that elsewhere, without being called on it. Your mates would think there was something wrong with you, not being able to do any better than to pull nothing but hookers. But, in tawdry Patts, that’s the norm and one simply blends in by having an endless trail of Hos lined up outside the door. Therefore it’s a perfect place to retire for an aging sultan wanting his fantasy harem.
But, I still think one day, you might just get really bored with it all.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Run Mann
I agree with you about these sites. I met about 65 in person from both AsianEuro and ThaiLovelinks. Of those, only two turned out to be bargirls and I met both of them within the last year or so.[/QUOTE]
I'm curious OTH how you determined that those other 63 girls had no connection to the night life; presumably you not did have extended liaisons with all of them. It always puzzled me how there are so many posters here who make proud and bold declarative statement like "my Thai GF/wife has never set foot anywhere near the night life or was never involved in it." How do they know that to be a fact, because she said so? These same Posters will then make statement like “Thais (girls) are the biggest liars, they all tell lies to save face”. Well, if that is true, seems to me those are incredulous statements. This isn’t a criticism of you or your situation specifically (although you are involved) but just my general overall observation about many posters making what I consider to be insincere statements. I am intrigued as to how they factually support these statements.
I submit that no one knows the truth but the girls. Echoing those statements may give men a sense of increased self-esteem on this board but in a country where lying seems to be ingrained in the culture and prostitution is widely available, many of those type statements/posters lack creditability in this area. Now you can say that you can tell the difference because you have experience or wisdom or not all the girls are liars and normal girls are not the same as P4P, but come on, deep down who really believes this stuff?
In a country where it’s not uncommon for a girl to be multi-task as a Banker and a nocturnal paid Companion how does anyone know her true activities? There are Uni girls working part time at Natarees and as Escorts for various agencies, so how are they classified, Hookers, normal, half normal? If you met them today or later in life, would they open up and tell you about their extra activities? A better statement would be “as far as I know, my gf has never been near the night-life”. This is a land of plenty (of hookers) and we meet on a sex board where no one met his wife or GF via the P4P route. The odds of that happening are in the trillions, it can’t happen. A freshman college student taking statistics can tell us that. I would venture to say that at least some of the girls we think are normal girls are much closer or in some way connected to the night scene than their mates may know. However many of these posters making these statements have to already know the truth. The line between P4P and normal girls is not as defined as some may think. Not bashing anyone, just my not so humbly view point.