Moscow

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]There are several books out on the subject, including "the Game" by Neil Strauss.

Http://en. Wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(book_on_Pickup_Artists)

There is some truth to what is written, fosho. But I've also seen too many guys taking the techniques to extremes. And verbatim. Everybody needs to adapt any technique to their own strengths and style.

Beyond that, I find that Russia has it's own set of rules. There are inherent characteristics that every girl has, but also significant cultural differences.[/QUOTE] Yep, The Game is one of my nightshelf books too. Neil had a small team of guys a few years ago, Eban, Mystery, Stiles for example, all got out there and started promoting what they learnt to guys online, or ebooks, I got Ebans stuff (he goes under the name David D'Angelo) and he does some DVDs and Audio CDs interviews with mongers, artists and average guys with natural talent. Mystery does his own videos, and Stiles does e-newsletters and you-tube instructional videos.

True that you cannot use the material verbatim, like a good suit, you have to fit it to your style.

But when it comes down to it, I find that one thing is true, Confidence is king. Girls respond to confidence more than any other trait, How you deliver that confidence is the difference between cultures.

Unfortunate that many dyevs feel that when a man has the confidence, he can confidently go up to a counter and just buy what she wants. These girls need serious re-training on that score, but taking a womans hand and leading, not asking for permission for anything, the classic finger to the lips when she begins to protest.

I had a dyev tell me this a few years ago, which really changed my world: If you have to ask, you don't deserve, and if you allow a complaint, you deserve a nag.

Just before I left Moscow (I'll be back soon) I met a girl in a club, we danced, we grooved, we ground hips together. Then I said I was taking her home, she looked at me strange (like "where do you think your taking me"), I stared at her with a look of dissaproval, (like "How dare you accuse me of that") and said, "we're having tea, and then I'll send you home in a cab". Full confidence and belief that this was going to happen.

At my place, we can't keep our hands off each other, I take steps called 'bridges' from one of the books I have. Its like a two steps forward, one step back, tease, rinse, repeat. And she's practically nude, while I'm dressed, she goes to complain. I put my finger to her lips, and replace with mine. Within minutes she is nude, I'm only shirtless and going down on her.

Looking back on that, I had alot of friggin balls to even try that, yet it worked, freaks me out that it did.

Now, American Girls, the pure confidence, keep your mouth shut, attitude does not even get me close, I have to use more humour, open them up (pun included) mentally, before I get close enough to close.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Pizdyets]I couldn't stomach reading all of it, but I have my doubts on whether or not she really lives (lived? ) here.

I will give her something. Her poetry gives the Vogons a run for their money.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately I have met her, but I will have to read more to understand if these stories are true or not.

Vogons. Damn this forum needs some kind of approval system do I can green you for that.

[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]Unfortunately I have met her, but I will have to read more to understand if these stories are true or not.

Vogons. Damn this forum needs some kind of approval system do I can green you for that.[/QUOTE]Simply it is wrong to apply techniques described in the ''Game'' to russian,ukrainian or belarus women.They simply don't work.They will make you appear weird and untrustworthy.What works is the good old gentleman style which is almost abandoned in the West.

Huge discussion about that etc.Anyway discussion with russian or ukrainian girls is absolutely indifferent and boring to western girls' ears.

Only the core remains the same,not too spiced up as in the West.

My comment about girls waiting for one-night stand was intended as a subtle irony on the multiple boastings here that, frankly, do not ring that realistic to me. Here you go - I said this now in a less polite way than my very first posting on the subject.

The postings of Dr. Skank and others do appear as a fantasy to me - the one I would like myself to turn into reality. Don't take my doubt wrong - I don't mean to offend and I'd like all your stories to be true. Yet, something tells me they are not. Unless Russian girls are really chronic one-night-standers - I have doubt that so many 18 y.o. freebies would jump to anyone's bed.

For the above-mentioned reasons, I am ready to to observe one of you gurus in action and prove my doubts wrong (something that I'll do happily). I'll go and have fun solo as well. Any takers - let me know. Aibolit.

[url]http://www.rusdosug.com/indi29207.htm[/url]

Saw Olenka and she was better than advertised. Arrived as discussed and stayed 3 hrs instead of the agreed 2 hrs at no charge as we were having such a good time. Her English is very good and she is very interested in customer satisfaction. Please treat this wonderful girl well as I have not run across many who have been not only as advertised but above and beyond. I will definitely be a repeat customer. Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]Now, American Girls, the pure confidence, keep your mouth shut, attitude does not even get me close, I have to use more humour, open them up (pun included) mentally, before I get close enough to close.[/QUOTE]

Solnechka, glad you're having fun in my rodina. Yeah, humor is a big one with Amerikanki. Big with Russian girls too, but tougher without 100% fluency and the necessary cultural background. As for your success there in the US of A, I think you're getting a bit of a break on the approach being a foreigner - especially a native English speaking one. I remember going to clubs in Vegas with a British wingman and watching him clean up while the girls were asking me "so he's from England... where are YOU from?" "um... California." "oh." You can't underestimate novelty.

Since this is the MOSCOW thread, figured I should actually contribute something apropos. Not sure if it's the time of year (some people still on holiday) or simply no money with the crisis, but the clubs and restaurants are not as crowded as usual. Recently hit Karma, Che, Tunnel, Papa's, Propka, and HD. Still plenty of people, but I'd say 20-50% fewer than late 2008. Putting a positive spin on things, at least Face Control isn't an issue. Would be interesting how things are going at Most, Opera, Rai and the other elitnie kluby. Anyone here go to such places?

[QUOTE=Aibolit]My comment about girls waiting for one-night stand was intended as a subtle irony on the multiple boastings here that, frankly, do not ring that realistic to me. Here you go - I said this now in a less polite way than my very first posting on the subject.

The postings of Dr. Skank and others do appear as a fantasy to me - the one I would like myself to turn into reality.[/QUOTE]Well if your comments were indeed meant ironically, then maybe you do have a chance after all. Club life and hitting on girls does require a thick skin as you'll have to take your knocks too. A self-ironic outlook on life is a good start... as long as it doesn't start dominating your persona. One thing you'll find is that it takes some time to "tune in" to the Russian sense of humour. In my experience it takes some time for them to get ours as well. The anglo sense of humour is largely based on irony and sarcasm, with a good degree of word play and tongue-in-cheek self-deprecation. Don't expect your girl to get any of this at the beginning at least... and if she does, hang on to her tight. She's worth her weight in gold. 47kg of gold is a small fortune these days.

Nonetheless, cracking the humour barrier is a challenge... beyond the fact that as Solntsa Yada correctly stated, humour is... at least initially... of secondary importance in angling the Russian dev. Other "qualities" take the forefront for them. One area where humour does work well is when you've got a wingman. If you've got good banter with your wingman and each of you is laughing at each other's puns and jokes, she'll at least know you are a fun guy. Girls LOVE to hear guys talk in a confident, energized way. They tune into your facial expression and aura. Roger Mellie and I have this down to perfection. If we are double dating it's more or less a 90-minute dialogue full of war storeis and sexual innuendo, followed by "let's go have a drink in my apartment". If you are alone with her however, you'll find (depending on her language skill) that she'll take your ironic and sarcastic jokes verbatim and she may just end up thinking you are a weirdo. Weirdos don't do well at clubs. Techniques that do work have been discussed here on this forum at length, although the deciding factor will be adjusting the technique to highlight your strengths and keep you comfortable and confident.

As for stories being reality, they are. As Pizdyets and Mellie also posted, they aren't even that extraordinary. At the same time, the success stories posted here on ISG does not mean that there aren't numerous stories of being ignored and/or rejected by Russian girls or of dates gone bad. As I said, you'll have to have a thick skin and be able to take your knocks... and know when a girl is a write off.

Moreover, you keep refering to one night stands. These indeed do happen, but they are largely the exception rather than the rule. You are more likely to get a girl's number at a club and screw her a day or two later than that night. Just as often, the number you got at the club won't pan out or will require too much time to get the ball rolling. Follow the advice in this forum and pursue MULTIPLE leads. I screwed 4 girls in one extraordinary day once. Banging 2 or 3 in one day is entirely possible. It can happen, but it will require work.

As for age, pulling 18-year olds is entirely possible. They may not be your best market however, as even though they are delightfully naive and curious, they are just as inexperienced and skittish... not to mention that 95% of them live at home with their parents and are limited in their in week mobility by said parents, distance and their university/institute.

I do well with the 18-20 market, but easiest market at least for me is 21-25. A lot of guys do better with 25-29, girls who often are working secretarial type jobs and live alone or share a flat with padruga. A lot of these girls are non-Muscovites as well, meaning from some other region. These girls are even more likely to be interested in a foreign affair than native Muscovites, who usually have established and somewhat exclusive social circles.

[QUOTE=Aibolit]My comment about girls waiting for one-night stand was intended as a subtle irony on the multiple boastings here that, frankly, do not ring that realistic to me. Here you go. I said this now in a less polite way than my very first posting on the subject.

The postings of Dr. Skank and others do appear as a fantasy to me. The one I would like myself to turn into reality. Don't take my doubt wrong. I don't mean to offend and I'd like all your stories to be true. Yet, something tells me they are not. Unless Russian girls are really chronic one-night-standers. I have doubt that so many 18 y. O. Freebies would jump to anyone's bed.

For the above-mentioned reasons, I am ready to to observe one of you gurus in action and prove my doubts wrong (something that I'll do happily). I'll go and have fun solo as well. Any takers. Let me know. Aibolit.[/QUOTE]Russian humour is very different from english one. In fact english humour sounds like annoyance or common sense without any particular edge to Russian ears. Keep in mind that Russians express their thoughts far more directly than Westerners without being embarrased about being rude, so the simple exposing of truth in order to embarass as it happens in english humour does not sound anything particular humorous to them because they lack the subtlety of manners which would allow it to be understood as opposite to the usual behaviour.

On the contrary Russian humour seems to english people absurd, sadistic, dark and more sad than humorous. I enjoy Russian humour which I find extremely funny. A comedy with elements of Russian humour is ''Gitler kaputt'' which was recently produced.

Westerners do not like Russian mentality and even more they dislike the humour based on this mentality.

However a small tip from me: If you want to appear humorous to any slavic girl, Polish, Czech, Russian or ukrainian, just use Russian humour. It always works.

[QUOTE=Pizdyets] Recently hit Karma, Che, Tunnel, Papa's, Propka, and HD. Still plenty of people, but I'd say 20-50% fewer than late 2008. Putting a positive spin on things, at least Face Control isn't an issue. Would be interesting how things are going at Most, Opera, Rai and the other elitnie kluby. Anyone here go to such places?[/QUOTE] Pizyozha - I have not but my bud who lives in Moscow took a group of visiting VIPs to Opera on Friday night at it was SIGNIFICANTLY down. I phrase he used was "sausage fest" which I guess means that there were all kinds of guys but no babes. I thought the opposite would have been true - but there you go. After a couple of drinks they bailed and went down market to Rock Vegas ([url]www.rock-vegas.ru[/url]) and the place was packed with plenty of girls trolling for free drinks and carnival tricks. (Sit on my face and I'll guess your weight baby).

[QUOTE=Jake993]Pizyozha - I have not but my bud who lives in Moscow took a group of visiting VIPs to Opera on Friday night at it was SIGNIFICANTLY down. I phrase he used was "sausage fest" which I guess means that there were all kinds of guys but no babes. I thought the opposite would have been true - but there you go. After a couple of drinks they bailed and went down market to Rock Vegas ([url]www.rock-vegas.ru[/url]) and the place was packed with plenty of girls trolling for free drinks and carnival tricks. (Sit on my face and I'll guess your weight baby).[/QUOTE]Rock Vegas? Wow.. that brings back memories... good memories... :) Haven't been there is about 3 years I must confess though. Pyatnitskaya ul. is a nice area in general though.

Restaurants were down last week for sure. Being the only people in a restaurant isn't very romantic at all actually.

As for Opera being a sausage fest, the elitnie klubi have been a bit sausagy for a couple years now, but they were always packed. If they aren't completely packed on weekends (they're only open on Fridays and Saturdays) there is something wrong. Some of them will probably fold anyway. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank].. elitnie klubi have been a bit sausagy ..[/QUOTE]

I always get the feeling that guys who spend too much money do it to impress other GUYS

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Well if your comments were indeed meant ironically, then maybe you do have a chance after all. Club life and hitting on girls does require a thick skin as you'll have to take your knocks too. .[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the advice, Dr. Skank. I'll try to follow it, although 1 week seems like very limited time for a newbie like me. Not quite sure if conversation is possible at cannonade-grade noise of the club though. I'll probably go to Che and Fabrique. Any suggestion of what is the best time to show up? My last visit to Moscow (see report) I went to Che at ~10 pm on Tuesday. While I did briefly hook up with a girl there, the pickings were very slim. Someone smartly suggested to show up at ~4 am, to pick up the already wasted clientelle. Will you agree with that suggestion? I typically sleep at 4 am. (:

Another question question that comes up to mind is how do we, Westerners who speak almost perfect Russian, stand out from the native Russian crowd. My understanding is that you speak native-grade Russian. Do you speak only English when picking Russian dyevs or stick to Russian? How one avoids conflict with Russian cave-men in the club environment? My last trip, I almost ended fist-fighing a totally drunk and agressing cave-men in HD. Since I didn't like my privacy to be exposed in any way (stopped by Russian militia for the brawl in a bar is not something that I'm ready to withstand), I had to hold myself up from satisfying my confrontational impulses. Will be glad to hear some wisdom on all the above. Aibolit.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]I always get the feeling that guys who spend too much money do it to impress other GUYS[/QUOTE]May very well be, but the main reason is that feis control/club direktor determines the ratio the only people actually spending money in these clubs are guys... and sales of club cards, VIP tables etc. as also mostly a male domain, although I do some girls with club cards they got "somehow". They certainly didn't buy them.

I've been to several of the elite clubs in the last 3 years or so and the male/female ratio was never better than 50/50 and often 60/40 sausage to peaches. I still like going there, but they aren't inherentely better than the more "demokratic" student or normal schmoo type places.

[QUOTE=Aibolit]Any suggestion of what is the best time to show up? My last visit to Moscow (see report) I went to Che at ~10 pm on Tuesday. While I did briefly hook up with a girl there, the pickings were very slim. Someone smartly suggested to show up at ~4 am, to pick up the already wasted clientelle. Will you agree with that suggestion? I typically sleep at 4 am. (:

Another question question that comes up to mind is how do we, Westerners who speak almost perfect Russian, stand out from the native Russian crowd. [/QUOTE]If I am out clubbing I'll usually go out about 12.30 and either stay where I am or move on to another club to get a restart if I am not having luck at club A. I've always felt crunch time was about 02.30-03.00. Clubs usually drain in 2 waves. Wave one about at that time 02.30-03.00 and wave two about 04.00-04.30. Clubs generally die around 05.00 although I've been in them as late as 06.00-07.00 before.

Going at 04.00 to a club to get the drunk chicks isn't a bad ploy, although many of the better girls are gone by then. It isn't my SOP, especially if alone. In a group it is more fun.

Best club nights are obviously Thursday-Saturday, although those clubs that are open on Wednesday and Sunday can be very good too. Getting a good club atmosphere on a Monday or Tuesday is pretty much luck... but since there aren't that many clubs even open on those days, they can sometimes collect a good crowd. Many devs working real jobs have to work weekends and their weekend IS Monday-Tuesday.

Russian... my Russian is merely conversational, it is far from perfect. But it is good enough to get laid. There are 2 schools of thought whether an approach in English or Russian is better and I won't say which is better IMO here, as I believe that is simply a matter of the girl.

Nonetheless, I usually approach in Russian, but depending on the situation will sometimes use English. Going in cold it's usually Russian. First impressions are important and many girls will reject English outright. Once rejected, it's an uphill battle. You can always switch to English later if she's able and willing to speak it. That said, if I have gotten good eye contact or a smile from a girl before approaching, I will often use English and if she's unresponsive, switch to Russian. I personally don't think that English is much of a draw, so I don't wave it around... unless with a group or wingman. In that case it does often draw positive attention.

I've rarely had problems with the Russians. If anything, I've had problems with other expats... for some reason it always seems to be the French. I even like the French actually, so I don't know why that is. Maybe we just like the same women.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]If I am out clubbing I'll usually go out about 12.30 and either stay where I am or move on to another club to get a restart if I am not having luck at club A. I've always felt crunch time was about 02.30-03.00. Clubs usually drain in 2 waves. Wave one about at that time 02.30-03.00 and wave two about 04.00-04.30. Clubs generally die around 05.00 although I've been in them as late as 06.00-07.00 before.
[/QUOTE]

Depends heavily upon which club you're in. For whatever reason, I have good luck at Tunnel only after 4am. Other clubs, better between midnight and 3am. In any case, 10pm is WAY too early unless you're hitting some pre-party cafe trolling for girls to take to a club (which is best done with a wingman).

[QUOTE]
Going at 04.00 to a club to get the drunk chicks isn't a bad ploy, although many of the better girls are gone by then.[/QUOTE]

Yup, agreed. That's why you need to be equally sloshed. ;)

[QUOTE]Nonetheless, I usually approach in Russian, but depending on the situation will sometimes use English. Going in cold it's usually Russian. First impressions are important and many girls will reject English outright.[/QUOTE]

I always approach in Russian. I figure that my Russian is probably better than their English (>90% of the time it is). And while it's flawed and foreign accented, it shows that I like living here enough that I learned their language. Believe me, there are few foreigners who can speak Russian well, so that will give you big novelty points. Don't squander it by speaking English!

The only exception I can think of is HotDog. I've had a couple of cases where girls outright rejected me when I spoke to them in Russian. Not sure why, but I guess they didn't notice my accent and thought (rightly) that Russians are cheaper than foreigners when it comes to p4p.

[QUOTE]I've rarely had problems with the Russians. If anything, I've had problems with other expats...[/QUOTE]

Ditto. Russians usually just want to drink with me (again - novelty that a foreigner likes living here and speaks Russian). I was frankly very surprised to hear that you got into a fight at HD. I've been there countless times and never experienced any aggression at all (if you don't count the surly b-i-t-c-h working the kassa!)