Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1539513]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty". They really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow. There is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!

Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would EVER believe?[/QUOTE]Yes.

It's the pecking order, nothing more nothing less

[QUOTE=Giotto;1539504]And now - let the witch hunt begin :) .[/QUOTE]So, I've observed another distinction. Girls who were raised in or around Bangkok (or a suburb) and girls who were raised in a northern region.

Bangkok or nearby suburban girls seem to speak the correct Thai and seem to have cleaner etiquette (or maybe can fake it) and northern girls speak a blend and or dialect and seem out of place.

[QUOTE=Giotto;1539513]PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would EVER believe?[/QUOTE]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.

A few women have successful careers that have taken them farther than most men will every go and have no need of a man to sustain their standard of living. For most women in most cultures marriage or its equivalent raises the woman's standard of living. Does this mean most women are prostitutes? Or does it simply mean generally men bring something into a relation, even one that lasts an hour, and expect something in return. Same for women. Should we admire a man with a trophy wife and denigrate a man with a girl friend for the night? Should we think less of a lady who provides good service at an MP versus a woman who is a good wife? Where do these attitudes come from?

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.

Aggressive and open verbal harassment of a working girl walking with her customer on Sukhumvit or other tourist areas is in fact very uncommon. Its outlier behavior. Nor are young Thai males to any large extent being denied sex because of sex tourists buying hookers, as most of the these girls have Thai boyfriends anyways. I would be very surprised if it dificult for the average young Thai to get laid, so need to be bitter and take it out on a working girl. Also we know Thais reserve the cream of the crop for themselves, so many of these Thais, if for example if they got a good job, have access to some amazingly hot women.

They were probably drunk and possibly (its not inconceivable at least) experiencing frustration and anger maybe because of the protest related economic hit they may be still experiencing, which even in the best case scenario could linger another 3 to 6 months with one high season already missed, so they see a hooker making easy money and end up acting like jerks.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539419]Did you pay this woman? Are you on holiday? If so, then the things they said about her were indeed true, no?[/QUOTE]So the mere truth of the statement somehow mitigates its inflammatory nature?

So I guess if a ladyboy is walking down the Soi minding his own business, he could be harassed by someone making aggressive but true statements about what the Ladyboy technically likes to do to other men and receive from other men?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1539576]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.

Aggressive and open verbal harassment of a working girl walking with her customer on Sukhumvit or other tourist areas is in fact very uncommon. Its outlier behavior. Nor are young Thai males to any large extent being denied sex because of sex tourists buying hookers, as most of the these girls have Thai boyfriends anyways. I would be very surprised if it dificult for the average young Thai to get laid, so need to be bitter and take it out on a working girl. Also we know Thais reserve the cream of the crop for themselves, so many of these Thais, if for example if they got a good job, have access to some amazingly hot women.

They were probably drunk and perhaps experiencing frustration and anger maybe because of the protest related economic hit they may have experienced, which even in the best case scenario could linger another 3 to 6 months with one high season already missed, so they see a hooker making easy money, so they end up acting like jerks.[/QUOTE]To Western 787.

Maybe 12 yr ago during the asia economy crisis there are a lot of freelance back in 1998-2002, the beergarden, disco and Thermae are full of freelance, now days most of the girl hang out beergarden and nana plaza are average looking older WG, not sure how long have you been going to Thailand exchange rate back then is 48bht to 1 USD and going rate is 700bht for ST.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1539592]To Western 787.

Maybe 12 yr ago during the asia economy crisis there are a lot of freelance back in 1998-2002, the beergarden, disco and Thermae are full of freelance, now days most of the girl hang out beergarden and nana plaza are average looking older WG, not sure how long have you been going to Thailand exchange rate back then is 48bht to 1 USD and going rate is 700bht for ST.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Look, no doubt from what I have heard it was pretty damn good in Bangkok a number of years ago, cheap prices, better attitudes and hotter girls on average, and I've seen some interesting analysis from Stickman last month and posters in here like Goatscrot and others. Bangkok is already close to 1st world or already there,, and Thailand is heading toward 1st world or 1. 5 world status, more jobs available, more options, and the internet has taken many out of bars and Go Go's and they and for example FL's can even have access to prospective customers in other countries. Looking at the macro trend IMHO cash heavy Chinese investors will make this eventually a very expensive city, just as China bid up commodity costs across the globe, but the political unrest has delayed this inevitable trend but only momentarily. So the point is - enjoy it while it lasts.

Now dealing with the current situation, yes. Most at Beergarden are older and average, but there are fair amount of exceptions. As for NPL the range is quite expansive in fact. The Go Go's while increasingly dependent upon agency girls, still offer many non coyote hot girls.

You might recall poster "RickRock" a year or two back saying prices have gotten so high and quality so low in Bangkok, that given costs of the the plane ride and hotels bills etc, its better for mongers to stay stateside. (he cited New York and west coast I believe) I guess for mongers staying shortterm in Bangkok or only here once or twice a year perhaps that could be true to some degree unless they really know the market, but for many others its not accurate. For example those living here or visiting very frequently which among other things allows one to find the nuances of the scene, including the semi pro or part-time market, and therefore there is no way an average middle age guy could duplicate that experience in for example New York, unless accompanied by very large amount of resources. No market is static and while Bangkok is is headed downhill in monger terms, its way better than many other places, and if one enjoys the infrastructure advantages and luxuries the city has to offer, its nearly perfeclty balanced between a world class city, having lots of hot P4P women, and yet still low cost in living terms.. For example even compared to Angeles City, a true 3rd world location, hotels are more expensive there, and same in Myamar in Burma, a true 3rd world hell hole.

[QUOTE=Bobokp;1539535]I was having lunch or breakfast at the buffet of Sheraton Sukhumvit with my Baccara LT girl. To me she looked very ordinary, plain clothes.[/QUOTE]LOL, I couldn't help but notice your (ONE) other post was from 7 years ago. And since I am interested in you finishing the story you began above, I hope its quicker than 7 years.

Now if THAT is the entire story, then my mistake.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539497]Then the penny dropped. It wasn't being around a bunch of weird farang, or a bunch of bar girls, that she objected to. The intolerable problem was that she figured that everybody who saw her there, with her farang, would assume that SHE was also a bar girl. This was more than she could stand.[/QUOTE]Yes, and she had good reason to feel that way. She's no different than any of them and she knows it.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]One of my good friends once said,"All women are wh*res and all men are consumers." There is a certain truth to that, but I do think the times they are a changin'. In Thailand you see more and more gals who want to remain,"working woman." They have no desire for a boyfriend. They might go out and grab a dude for sex but have no interest in a long term relationship as they don't want to answer or be beholden to anyone. This is a major deviation from traditional male / female roles here and I think it will continue to change. Remember, many of the cultural taboos and mores about sex in Thailand do not have a basis in religious thought or texts so they are far easier broken and norms changed in comparison to the West."Regular" Thai women are out there having a lot of sex. A Durex study placed them as the second most promiscuous on the planet next to Ghananan women. Over 70% of Thai women surveyed admitted to having multiple partners.

Honestly I wish I was 28 instead of 48. It is a great time to be a single young dude in Thailand, and I am not talking about the P4P scene. So many of my younger friends would never P4P, but they are dating and mating with lots of very good looking educated women here and most will jump in the sack at the drop of a hat.

Actually if you live in Thailand you must care about what people think about your date, especially if you work here. You are judged by the company you keep. Like it or not, that is the way it works. Do whoever you want, date for fun, but long term, make sure it is someone who can "do" something for you.

Its just as easy to fall for someone with means as for someone without.

[QUOTE=Western787;1539576]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.[/QUOTE]Yes, and the key there is your first sentence. Those girls are discreet. They would never be seen walking hand in hand at Paragon with a fat old farang in shorts, flip flops, and a wife beater T-Shirt.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1539513]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty". They really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow. There is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!

Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would ever believe?[/QUOTE]Fuck you, Giotto. And the flea bitten horse you rode in on.

It may surprise you to know that few girls will go to hooker areas, despite all of them knowing about it. Some are curious but would certainly never go there alone, some aren't even curious. I personally know both kinds. So, yes, having a quick escorted tour makes sense for some. Perhaps it's schadenfreude, perhaps something else. All I know is what she told me afterwards.

As for hanging around me, who knows? I gave up the bar scene several years ago, mostly because I got tired of the low-lifes who populated the scene. Guys like you and your GFs, perhaps? Guys like the OP who parades around with a hooker on his arm and wonders why locals give him shit? I'm sure none of my faves would have anything to do with me if I still frequented the farang night-life areas. I do know her comments concerning bar girls are reflected by each and every "normal" Thai girl I know. If your experience is different, so be it.

PS. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. You've made a nice living catering to this segment of the population. Does having your (former) clientele classified as "dirty" and "low life" cut a bit close to the bone?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539623]Actually if you live in Thailand you must care about what people think about your date, especially if you work here. You are judged by the company you keep. Like it or not, that is the way it works. .[/QUOTE]I live here and don't give a baht about what they think, why should I? The don't pay my wages as I work for a foreign company so what are they going to do for me or not do for me? People will judge you regardless of who you are with, If a judgmental person looks down on me because of MY choice of who I want to date, I say Fuck them. It's a very sad life to live trying to live up to someone else's standards, especially someone you don't even know or someone who will never affect your life.

I remember the first time I came to Thailand, I did not know anyone here but an older lady who worked as a cashier in a bar but she was in the game as she did go with customers. I had forgotten my computer power plug at home and had to get a new one so she took me to Pantip and I got one. I got looks from just being with her but that didn't move me in the least. The computer plug was more important to me. She was not my GF, I was her customer but she was so valuable to me, not for sex as she was older and not my type but she was a very nice lady who provided a service to me. I suspect some Thais thought we were dating as we were together in the sky train and on the road but damn if I was going to let how they view me or how they view her affect me. No one will ever convince me that I should care about what someone else thinks about my date or who I choose to go out with and I am not, not advocating dates or relationship with hookers but let's face it some hi so or normal women are lower than many hookers. Many people sitting in the cheap seats passing judgment on BGs likely have lots more skeletons in their closet. Anyone who let the people in the peanut gallery affect your choice of who they go out with, well they need some self-esteem.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]I think anybody with a brain (which may exclude several contributors here) would agree that P4P means exchanging sex for money. You could probably also include high-priced gifts as money. And that's fine. I have no problem with it. There is no point in self-delusion. One can be a prostitute without being a full-time prostitute.

But as far as I can tell, none of the "normal" girls I know have ever exchanged sex for money / gifts. They're not virgins by any means. But they don't hang out in bars nightly, they don't cruise pick-up joints on the weekends. They've never slept with a guy on the first date or had a one-night stand. They can number their boyfriends on one hand. And they all have high paying jobs and aren't looking for a sugar daddy. They wouldn't accept money if I offered it. Hell, on a relative scale a couple of them probably have more money than me. So, I submit that there is a very clear line between P4P and non-P4P. It's just some guys want to pretend the girl they give "gifts" to really isn't a hooker.