Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546848]I think that is spot on Paul. Expats move to place because they like the way it "is." We also tend to come here with our Western perspective on development. Things have changed more in Thailand in the 14 years I have been here than they have changed in 30 back home in D / FW, TX. We just don't expect for it to change that fast.

Many things in Thailand are more expensive then they are in the US. Alcohol for one, western food and good coffee for another. Yes, hotels are cheaper than major cities in the US, but that really has no effect on the expat. Quality clothing is way more expensive in Thailand, as are cars and gasoline. Being in BKK I own a motorbike not a car, but if I ever move out of BKK a car will be needed.

Rents, well that depends. Do you want to live in a place that is new and western standard? Well, for a one bedroom you are looking at a minimum of 25k baht, which is about 100% more than what it was 10 years ago.

Local food is cheap and the biggie, so is health insurance. I pay about 1100 USD per year for a major med policy that covers up to 1 mil US per year. At almost 50 years old, that is a great deal.[/QUOTE]As far as mongering and so forth trend is downhill for sure, but Bangkok still has a long way to go to reach bottom.

Bangkok in terms of intensity and the overall vibe matches up as a world class city, more comparable to NYC than the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex area. Unless its downtown, newer one bedrooms go below 20k, studios in first rate buildings down to 12k plus most have incredible swimming pools nearly non existent in places like NYC. In fact 8 miles from downtown presentable apartments can be found for approx 5k, and while not fancy, and lacking pools, or next door to the MRT, it will generally be adequate. You can't even find (self) storage boxes in many western cities at those rates. In NYC a one bedroom would typically be around 100k in anyplace with even a minimum amount of safety, and nearly always an old building. As for western food, perhaps you're talking about buying imported steaks at Foodlander or Villa Market, because prepared western food can be far cheaper than the USA in many of the chain restaurants in places like Terminal 21 or elsewhere, and in fact offer better fares than the same restaurants offer back in the states. Now as far as mongering. Let me use Skogis style as an example to prove the point, really the somewhat upper fringes of P4P, basically Hi So / semi pro/ FL club hopping / mongering. Perhaps he can comment, but I doubt he could pull that kind of action in NYC or London or other major western cities for 5 times what he is paying in Bangkok. Nor do I think he would get comparable quality EVEN if it were available and was willing to pay 5 times more. Now while the Global Nanpa guy has disappeared, he too was directing most of his efforts in Bangkok and nearby countries - precisely because he deemed Bangkok a bargain at the higher end also. As far as normal mongering, there is no comparison in the USA at all in terms of extended shortterm or long terms, or the sheer number of semi pros in this market, or anything remotely like the soapie palaces of Ratchada, oil massage parlors, regular bars, Go Go's, or even street girls, unless one considers crack hoes working NYC as comparable to FL's hanging at Nana parking lot, Beer Garden or elsewhere around the city. The market in most western cities, especially the USA just doesn't exist in comparable form. Just the visuals in Bangkok are quite extraordinary, with beautiful women seemingly everywhere, very different than the states and many other western cities.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1546349]Stick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? It just gets worse and worse.[/QUOTE]BKK is just too trendy now. No matter where you are going in Thailand, BKK is going to be your first and last stop. Go Go Bars are now just like US strip clubs. But strip clubs are not full of gawking tourists, just drinking and killing time before they head off to some beach.

I lived in BKK for 6 years and I can say without a doubt, I will never drink Singha, San Mig Light, or Heineken ever again. If you have seen 1 temple, you have seen them all. Thai food is good, but there is nothing 100% authentic about eating Thai food in Thailand. Thai food is Thai food.

If getting as many cheap shags as possible is your only goal on a vacation, sure BKK and the sewer known as Pattaya is still perhaps your best bet.

But if your goal is to enjoy many of the finer things in life such as Beer, Wine, a variety of cusines, skunk weed, and clean air! There are lots of better places to go than Thailand. Plus you could probably fuck white and black girls too!

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546867]So I sympathize with the expats living in Bangkok; and because I'm seriously considering moving to Thailand in the next few years I pay close attention to what you are saying. You fight and struggle in your native land. Your lucky enough to escape and find yourself in Valhalla, only to watch it disappear due to forces beyond your control.[/QUOTE]LOL, if someone got to spent 14 years in Bangkok, much of it in the "Golden Years" or just a few years, or can spend months at a time at will, or can do high volume frequent-visits there is no need for sympathy, as such person is thus un shackled from western based ballbusters, something few males can ever hope to accomplish, and thus would be deemed "damn lucky". This brings to mind what the David Mamet created character "Charles Morse" (Anthony Hopkins) in THE EDGE said to Alex Baldwin "Never feel sorry for a man who owns his own plane."

[QUOTE=Skogis; 1546608]My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today. Demos, floods and in general an unruly gvm ofcourse have brought visitors down atleast into BKK itself). The prices in BHT have been almost the same. For my earlier monger hotel Grand President a deluxe suite costed 2200 incl taxes and still do today (is it more expensive or cheaper today relatively speaking?). For the girls I started with picking a FL girl from Thermae if I remember correctly and I gave her 3K back then and I still do pay the girls 3k in general for real LT play. I pick from every known FL nightclub there is but ofcourse staying many times over the years in Grand President most of my picks have come from Climax. Still 3k compensation. I NEVER discuss price upfront just a hand out when they leave and I have yet, as far as I remember, to see a girl have been unhappy.

Earlier years Spasso in Hyatt Erewan was a typical 5K LT pickup place. Girls pimping themself more up in coctail dresses. The latest years easy to have girls here for 3 to 4K? Have it become cheaper or more expensive? The number and quality of girls same same from my observation. Even had 2 FL`s from spasso for 6K (gave them 3 each).

Once again maby the girls under the barfinesystem one way or another have become more expensive, well it does no affect me as if I meet girls operating in this scene I meet them when they change into the FL scene. Even btls of vodka I think run in the same pricerange than I first started to come here (in the clubs that is).

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.[/QUOTE]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be. I like to stay in fine hotels as I firmly believe your environment plays a impact on how you feel throughout your trip. If I had had a rough day, I won't feel much better dragging myself to a 3 star filled with low class FL's and sleazy tuk-tuk drivers. I had had some very expensive nights but mostly it wasn't for the sex itself but everything else. Clubbing, drinks, etc. For some reason this really tends to add up in Bangkok. If you just stick to the sex then you are getting a great deal compared to many other mongering destinations.

I have taken girls overnight at 3-5K from Gogo's and ended up spending 10K just on the night out. Dinner, Bottle Service, Cab Rides, Wine etc, etc. By the time we get back to the room I am so inebriated that I can't even perform to my best that even the money for the sex seems wasted. I have never tried the FL scene, normally sticking to Gogos and Escort Services but I think my next trip should be focused here. If the girl is already at the venue, I won't worry about serenading her much and just take her back to the hotel after a few drinks. Escorts can also get very pricey for a night out intown, especially with their rate added to the mix and bar girls tabs can also really add up so I am defo leaning the FL venue next trip. I also get to pick and choose and mingle not worrying about time or bar fines. I have seen some very attractive FL's in front of the Sofitel Hotel on Suk and I am sure I can pull them LT for less than these escorts and Bar Girls

These extra's have really burned a hole in me during some of my trips. Things that you don't consider but add up and the up-sell on the sex becomes that much more and its not worth the price at the day. That being said. 5 star hotels and their service for the price cannot be beat anywhere else in the world and perhaps the seafood.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1546867]Your first sentence above is very insightful. Anyone lucky enough to find a place to live they love is eventually going to be disappointed, because it will change. Developing countries in particular can change very fast.

So I sympathize with the expats living in Bangkok; and because I'm seriously considering moving to Thailand in the next few years I pay close attention to what you are saying. You fight and struggle in your native land. Your lucky enough to escape and find yourself in Valhalla, only to watch it disappear due to forces beyond your control.[/QUOTE]To slightly paraphrase Oscar Wilde, We kill the thing we love.

Yes, Thailand of the late '90s through the '00s was great. I'm convinced it was even better, from what others have told me, in the 70s and 80s. Unfortunately, the beginning of the end was the confluence of cheap airfares and the Internet. All the guys who had found "Nirvana" talked about it. The hordes descended. The place changed.

Doesn't matter if it's a hooker bar in BKK, a hidden gem of a restaurant in Brussels or a deserted beach in Jamaica. If you blab it, they will come. And they did. And things will never be the same. They might be good, they might be bad, but they'll never be the same.

Like you, I have long planned to make Thailand my home, but I've been having second thoughts. I can probably learn to live with being a second class citizen. But I have hobbies I like. I like old cars. I like wine. I like to travel. Unfortunately these things are damned expensive in Thailand. Constant visa renewals, or whatever they call them, have to be a PITA. The inability to (easily) own property. Sometimes I wonder if the Thais really want farang living there. Dunno. Others can shed more light. Maybe I'm overthinking it. But Mexico is looking better as a permanent base. God knows the USA is going to be unlivable in a few years.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546751]Had a girl friend in San Francisco from Eastern Europe. Had plenty of opportunities to see her middle school son's life. What I noticed was the girls his age were the agents of the emasculation you describe. Twelve-year old girls are so much more mature than boys their age. Empower and encourage those girls and the poor boys lack the maturity to defend themselves. My girl friend, who was a supper smart professional, said her son would not have to deal with that had she stayed in Eastern Europe. A few years ago I listened to an National Public Radio interview with a woman, a sociologist with a teenage daughter. She wrote a book about this problem and complained as a mother she wanted her daughter to have better prospects for a potential spouse than the timid adolescents boys her daughter went to school with. She thought society was making a terrible mistake making concerted efforts to undermine the emotional development of boys. Of course I'm sure all the lesbian feminists who read ISG are laughing at us for writing the posts. Haha![/QUOTE]And if the boys start to act like boys they are punished (by overwhelmingly female teaching staffs) or medicated. Suspended for pointing a finger at a friend and saying "Bang." Sexual harassment charges filed by a first grade teacher who was hugged by one of her students. Don't forget the pop-tart incident.

Meanwhile, the girls are encouraged to be masculine, to literally "be one of the guys." TV shows and movies now are chock-full of petite females beating the shit out of burly men. Fathers and husbands are portrayed as permanently adolescent dumbshits.

As you so correctly pointed out, the ironic part is that the end product, after the feminists have had their way, is a weak, narcissistic, promiscuous, unable to commit man that no woman wants for a mate. Of course, to be fair, nobody wants an ill-tempered feminist termagant, looking to take your kids and house, as a wife. Way to go, Gloria.

[QUOTE=Moris54; 1546888]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be.[/QUOTE]Like you I prefer to stay in a nicer hotel. For under US$125 one can find excellent hotels in great locations. I always book one of the cheapest rooms and almost always get an upgrade to a deluxe room. I love bargain luxury. I get my food at the sidewalk stalls and hole-in-the-wall open air joints with a table of food in the front and plastic tables and chairs in the back. I think I eat well and spend very little. Where I am really able to save a lot money and time wasted due to poor judgement is by limiting my drinking. I go to Bangkok to fuck, and though I can be drunk as hell and still get it up thanks to the Cialis, I prefer being fully conscious when I bang a young wench. Also, because I'm such an old fart, when I drink too much I'm useless the next day. I saw plenty of nice looking FLs during my December stay. They were in the bars, on the sidewalks and especially in Climax Club. Didn't see and didn't expect to see any nines; saw at least a few eights and lots of sevens. I also had good luck with MP girls on outcall. Aor ended up costing me as much as a good escort, but that is because she was the wildest fuck I had in a long time and my tip reflected that. Bo and Cheer were 1000 each to Bamboo for 9pm to the next morning. Of course I tipped on top of that, but that was at my discretion so I was free to give them exactly what I thought was fair. I think I gave them about 3000 to 4000 each and they were very happy; and twelve hours with two horny young ladies sure made me very happy. I still can't get over what a nympho Cheer is. Even when after I add in the cost of a few escorts which I booked for anywhere from four to ten hours, I was able to consume plenty of pussy without going over my budget.

[QUOTE=Moris54; 1546888]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be. I like to stay in fine hotels as I firmly believe your environment plays a impact on how you feel throughout your trip. If I had had a rough day, I won't feel much better dragging myself to a 3 star filled with low class FL's and sleazy tuk-tuk drivers. I had had some very expensive nights but mostly it wasn't for the sex itself but everything else. Clubbing, drinks, etc. For some reason this really tends to add up in Bangkok. If you just stick to the sex then you are getting a great deal compared to many other mongering destinations.

I have taken girls overnight at 3-5K from Gogo's and ended up spending 10K just on the night out. Dinner, Bottle Service, Cab Rides, Wine etc, etc. By the time we get back to the room I am so inebriated that I can't even perform to my best that even the money for the sex seems wasted. I have never tried the FL scene, normally sticking to Gogos and Escort Services but I think my next trip should be focused here. If the girl is already at the venue, I won't worry about serenading her much and just take her back to the hotel after a few drinks. Escorts can also get very pricey for a night out intown, especially with their rate added to the mix and bar girls tabs can also really add up so I am defo leaning the FL venue next trip. I also get to pick and choose and mingle not worrying about time or bar fines. I have seen some very attractive FL's in front of the Sofitel Hotel on Suk and I am sure I can pull them LT for less than these escorts and Bar Girls

These extra's have really burned a hole in me during some of my trips. Things that you don't consider but add up and the up-sell on the sex becomes that much more and its not worth the price at the day. That being said. 5 star hotels and their service for the price cannot be beat anywhere else in the world and perhaps the seafood.[/QUOTE]Sounds like Nana Hotel would be an excellent option. Its actually a fairly decent hotel overall, far better than many in here seem to admit. While the baths are sort of 1970's, they are nicely kept and everything else is pretty good. FL's in the parking lot average 1500 bahts and will often offer repeat for 1000 once they know you're a gentlemen. Add to this 10 to 12 major pool bars on Soi 4 with 100's girls available all day just in those venues, and its hard to beat the setup. And of course at night, Go Go girls actually like the hotel given its safety and close proximity and so forth, and actually seem to prefer it over the shortterm rooms. Except perhaps for Hi-So party girl semi-pros, high end hotels really don't impress Thai working girls that much anyways. Note even in the pool bars on Soi 4, if one checks the inventory at various times of the day, one can and will find some stunners.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546905]Where I am really able to save a lot money and time wasted due to poor judgement is by limiting my drinking.[/QUOTE]Right on point Paul. Its not just the money spent on drinking too much, but also the poor judgement that leads to spending more without thinking. I am flying dry on my next trip.

[quote=phordphan; 1546899]and if the boys start to act like boys they are punished (by overwhelmingly female teaching staffs) or medicated. suspended for pointing a finger at a friend and saying "bang." sexual harassment charges filed by a first grade teacher who was hugged by one of her students. don't forget the pop-tart incident.

meanwhile, the girls are encouraged to be masculine, to literally "be one of the guys." tv shows and movies now are chock-full of petite females beating the shit out of burly men. fathers and husbands are portrayed as permanently adolescent dumbshits.

as you so correctly pointed out, the ironic part is that the end product, after the feminists have had their way, is a weak, narcissistic, promiscuous, unable to commit man that no woman wants for a mate. of course, to be fair, nobody wants an ill-tempered feminist termagant, looking to take your kids and house, as a wife. way to go, gloria.[/quote]i have begun to notice that american "men" who haven't been emasculated since school, those who grew up with a strong father figure and generally don't make excuses for being a man tend to go a complete 180 after marriage. on a subconscious level, especially in the usa after marriage, the woman always thinks to herself "got him!" they are systematically trained by their female peer group that this is the beginning of emasculation for a grown man. after a few years into the marriage you find the man is a complete tool in front of the wife. she dictates everything from his clothing, to the household decisions as well as the kids well being. this is turn will affect the kids, especially if they are young boys. they will get bullied, harassed and even victimized in school and not have the gall to stand up for what they believe in and whats right because the man in their lives is just as bad. these kids then grow up to have a very distorted idea about themselves and it leads to severe mental and social issues.

i love what you said about tv and movies. teeny ass girls beating the shit out of burly men who seem helpless and defenseless. yet there will be an outcry if the woman is given the same treatment no matter how much you prove is a fictitious controlled environment. the movie may be banned, the director vilified. and god knows what else.

case in point. who makes the largest outcry about sex workers and mongering? feminists. as much as they hate to admit it, most girls are in the industry by choice and make a good living much more so than most feminists who are just jealous of the freedom and choice their lifestyle affords. they claim to blame us mongers for perpetuating the industry, but in reality its the girls themselves that they truly hate because it invalidates all their feminist claims.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1546926]Case in point. Who makes the largest outcry about sex workers and mongering? Feminists.[/QUOTE]And fat unattractive women.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1546874]As far as mongering and so forth trend is downhill for sure, but Bangkok still has a long way to go to reach bottom.

Bangkok in terms of intensity and the overall vibe matches up as a world class city, more comparable to NYC than the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex area. Unless its downtown, newer one bedrooms go below 20k, studios in first rate buildings down to 12k plus most have incredible swimming pools nearly non existent in places like NYC. In fact 8 miles from downtown presentable apartments can be found for approx 5k, and while not fancy, and lacking pools, or next door to the MRT, it will generally be adequate. You can't even find (self) storage boxes in many western cities at those rates. In NYC a one bedroom would typically be around 100k in anyplace with even a minimum amount of safety, and nearly always an old building. As for western food, perhaps you're talking about buying imported steaks at Foodlander or Villa Market, because prepared western food can be far cheaper than the USA in many of the chain restaurants in places like Terminal 21 or elsewhere, and in fact offer better fares than the same restaurants offer back in the states. Now as far as mongering. Let me use Skogis style as an example to prove the point, really the somewhat upper fringes of P4P, basically Hi So / semi pro / FL club hopping / mongering. Perhaps he can comment, but I doubt he could pull that kind of action in NYC or London or other major western cities for 5 times what he is paying in Bangkok. Nor do I think he would get comparable quality EVEN if it were available and was willing to pay 5 times more. Now while the Global Nanpa guy has disappeared, he too was directing most of his efforts in Bangkok and nearby countries. Precisely because he deemed Bangkok a bargain at the higher end also. As far as normal mongering, there is no comparison in the USA at all in terms of extended shortterm or long terms, or the sheer number of semi pros in this market, or anything remotely like the soapie palaces of Ratchada, oil massage parlors, regular bars, Go Go's, or even street girls, unless one considers crack hoes working NYC as comparable to FL's hanging at Nana parking lot, Beer Garden or elsewhere around the city. The market in most western cities, especially the USA just doesn't exist in comparable form. Just the visuals in Bangkok are quite extraordinary, with beautiful women seemingly everywhere, very different than the states and many other western cities.[/QUOTE]You can't compare it to NYC because salaries are not near what they are in NYC. One of the biggest issues with BKK is the disparity between cost of living and salaries. When you start comparing what the average person makes in NYC to what the average person makes here, the cost in BKK is even more out of whack.

I think quality Western food is far more expensive here. I really don't eat at chain restaurants here or in the. I find most of them at best just so-so.

I can get a pretty good steak in the US at a restaurant for less than 20 bucks. Here one can hardly get a good steak for 600 baht.

Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.

[QUOTE=Western787;1546919]Sounds like Nana Hotel would be an excellent option. Its actually a fairly decent hotel overall, far better than many in here seem to admit. While the baths are sort of 1970's, they are nicely kept and everything else is pretty good. FL's in the parking lot average 1500 bahts and will often offer repeat for 1000 once they know you're a gentlemen. Add to this 10 to 12 major pool bars on Soi 4 with 100's girls available all day just in those venues, and its hard to beat the setup. And of course at night, Go Go girls actually like the hotel given its safety and close proximity and so forth, and actually seem to prefer it over the shortterm rooms. Except perhaps for Hi-So party girl semi-pros, high end hotels really don't impress Thai working girls that much anyways. Note even in the pool bars on Soi 4, if one checks the inventory at various times of the day, one can and will find some stunners.[/QUOTE]I prefer the Majestic Grande tucked away at the corner right across from Annies. I have stayed at a couple of 5 star hotels which don't even match up to this little gem. Ala JW Mariott.

To name just one.

The location is perfect and private and most girls love the hotel and I noticed some of the girls I picked from the Nana Area seems to chit.chat with the door staff which suggested to me they know each other. Many girls also comment on their breakfast service so its a good place to entice a LT as it seems like a place they enjoying going to and being at.

This is my go to place in BKK when mongering. Unless I feel like splurging on a true luxury hotel experience. But mongering in such venues is not as "free"

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546943]Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.[/QUOTE]Clearly you've never seen the girls of Singapore.

If I'm a retired guy making 6 figs, BKK is several hundred percent better value than NYC. There's no comparison. They're miles apart. There's also matters like the climate, feminism, the fat plague & prostitution law.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546943]You can't compare it to NYC because salaries are not near what they are in NYC. One of the biggest issues with BKK is the disparity between cost of living and salaries. When you start comparing what the average person makes in NYC to what the average person makes here, the cost in BKK is even more out of whack.

I think quality Western food is far more expensive here. I really don't eat at chain restaurants here or in the. I find most of them at best just so-so.

I can get a pretty good steak in the US at a restaurant for less than 20 bucks. Here one can hardly get a good steak for 600 baht.

Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.[/QUOTE]LOL, after taxes and living expenses $100, 000 / yr NYC today? One is living near poverty, and that's w / o a car. Hookers? You mean like crack hoes?

As for the visuals, while she is not going to precisely look like the drop dead stunner you saw working the desk at Terminal 21 or the Hi So 10 you spotted in Siam, the fact is that anyone knowing Bangkok, whether high-frequency visitor or resident can come up with a P4P beauty to sleep with pretty much any night of the week. Now, it might only be once a week depending upon ones resources and so forth, but its doable. That's not routinely the case in either NYC or other major western cities for average males over 45. Despite the ongoing decade long decline in the P4P scene in Bangkok, that difference still exists vs western cities. So in Bangkok, the visuals pretty much become the reality. Yes, when moving about in Bangkok one sees no-touch fantasy level (non-P4P or mistress level) beauties all day long, but every time you see one you know damn well, if you so desire, you will soon be sleeping with one almost as beautiful.