General Info

From my experience, even the juice-drinking lives with mom has to be home at 10pm kind of girl is still a puta at heart. There are three kinds of women in this world, putas out in the open, putas operating on the down low, and putas who don't even know their own true nature. But that nature NEVER changes.

My Colombian ex wasn't a puta when I met her, but she became one later, for many reasons. I spent 5 years with her in total, although the first part of that was long distance. We had real good times and real bad times.

One day I ran some rough numbers. For all the amazing mind-blowing barrier-stomping sex we had, and for what the relationship cost me in cold hard cash, I'd say I came about even compared to P4P. But I had a will of IRON with that girl. The other guys in her life have been repeatedly bled dry by her material interests :P (which also goes to show that Colombian men aren't really making out like bandits with these girls either!).

My American Newyorican ex wife was definitely a net loss, I woulda been better off with P4P. By quite a long shot, even at inflated NY prices for pussy compared to here.

The girl I had a 2 month fling with who was from another city, I made out like a bandit in those terms. I bought a few little gifts for her, took my own bus to visit her (when she came here she paid her own transport) , paid the hotel (45k a night 2 people, the hotel owner appreciates the frequent business) , when I was in her city she paid the food and taxis etc and I did the same for her. And we had the best sex I ever had. She's also firmly a semi-pro, NOT a non-pro.

The non-pros I think will tend to be a WORSE deal as they will be worse in bed and less honest about the way things are REALLY working in the relationship. Like I said, they may not even really know their own true intentions. 99% of human beings are actually totally out of touch with their own selves.

But don't fool yourselves, Colombia is a VICIOUSLY competitive country, these women are all beautifully turned out for a REASON, they have goals in mind ALL THE TIME and you are corollary to them at best. All this romance and sweet-talk shit here is just a veil hiding the reality. And the Colombianas play this game better than any other women I have ever seen. Women all over the world WILL trade up given the opportunity. And your 40 year old veterana "non-pro" GF is JUST as likely to get some on the side as any hot 20 year old. Reality check over!

[QUOTE=LuckyEddie; 1151900]I can't say I really agree with this last line.

I am on the other side of this and disagree, in a friendly way of course. I think it costs less the non P4P girl.

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports&p=1131821&viewfull=1#post1131821[/url]

First off all here is the issue. It may not be [I]your [/I]issue:

A) Guys that make prepagos their "girlfriend" and call them "non-pro girlfriends"

B) Guys that are way older with a "girlfriend" waaay out of their league and call them "non-pro girlfriends"

Both of the above "Girlfriends" are looking for money (any wonder?) , lie, have other boyfriends, play games, etc. They are not really "non-pro girlfriends"

So, the guy ends up spending more money, playing games, dealing with lies and taking abuse. Getting played. [B]Of course this "non-pro girlfriend" costs a lot more than a pro. [/B] But she is not a real non-pro. She is and always was a puta or if she is a non-pro she is a waaaay out of the guy's league. Meaning he is the "sugar daddy".

Think about yourself at 22 years old living in Colombia with tons of young hot girlfriend options, yet you have to date a 50 year old German immigrant who looks like Rosie O Donnel? She [I][B]better [/B][/I]be shelling out the bucks, right? You don't care how cultured Rosie is or how well she cooks or has travelled the world or even if she speaks your language fluently. There HAS to be something in it for you. Even then you are still going to bang your 19 year old hottie on the side and maybe even her 20 year old cousin. You are going to [I]have [/I]to lie and play games with Rosie.

Regular non pros in Colombia who are in your league do not cost more than putas if you have a real girl. Not a situation from the above A) or B).

Of course all girls cost some money:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiSKxw2B2PU&feature=related[/url]

But real Colombian girls cost less than Colombian putas and less than all girls in your home country.

Because, as opposed to your home country, things overall cost less in third world countries and the girls expect less. Out to dinner and a movie, a little gift here and there, pay the taxi, bring a cake.

In your home country you need to make big bucks, big job, new car, well dressed, fancy restuarants, splurge on big ticket items, Broadway shows, vacations, bottles of wine and cosmopolitans and martinis just like Sex and the City. You name it.

In Colombia you take her to the movies and afterwards she drinks a beer and a shot of rum. You don't even need to have a car! [/QUOTE]I just meant that if a chica gets used to a certain lifestyle, they won't turn back. If a gringo showers her with gifts no matter how small, soon she will start thinking. What if I have 5 gringo friends that come visit me? I'm not saying all or like that, but it's just the natural order of things. When you get something nice, you want more. If you take a chica back home, she will turn into a gringa. No doubt about it!

Anyways, very well written. That is exactly what I mean by it being cheaper with a "real" non-pro.

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito; 1152130]-There are three kinds of women in this world, putas out in the open, putas operating on the down low, and putas who don't even know their own true nature. But that nature NEVER changes.

-My Colombian ex wasn't a puta when I met her, but she became one later, for many reasons.

-We had real good times and real bad times.

[B]One day I ran some rough numbers. [/B] For all the [B]amazing mind-blowing barrier-stomping sex we had, [/B] And for what the relationship cost me in cold hard cash, I'd say I came about even compared to P4P.

My American Newyorican ex wife was definitely a net loss, I woulda been better off with P4P. By quite a long shot, even at inflated NY prices for pussy compared to here.

-The girl I had a 2 month fling with who was from another city, I made out like a bandit in those terms. [B]And we had the best sex I ever had[/B]. She's also firmly a semi-pro, NOT a non-pro.

-The non-pros I think will tend to be a WORSE deal as they will be worse in bed and less honest about the way things are REALLY working in the relationship.

But don't fool yourselves, Colombia is a VICIOUSLY competitive country, these women are all beautifully turned out for a REASON, they have goals in mind ALL THE TIME and you are corollary to them at best.

-Women all over the world WILL trade up given the opportunity. And your 40 year old veterana "non-pro" GF is JUST as likely to get some on the side as any hot 20 year old. Reality check over![/QUOTE][B][I]"One day I ran some rough numbers."[/I][/B]

I like that part the best. My numbers are 200K a month for [B][I]amazing mind-blowing barrier-stomping sex we had[/I][/B] All the other stuff you write about, no disrespect, is of little concern to me personally, but thanks for sharing.

The frequent discussion of "pros" or "semi-pros" or "non-pros" really is a refusal to recognize reality. All relationships are contractual. The puta that sells her time an hour at a time is not all that different from the "amateur" that promises lifetime commitment. Every contract should have a consequence for the party that breaches it. Today with no fault divorce, that contract simply means that the partners are together until one decides the "marriage has become unsupportable," whatever the fuck that means. Simply put, if you find one of these girls that you chose to care about, then do it. The karma is from what you give, not what you get. The only thing you can be certain is that she's not fucking someone else when she's fucking you. And that assumes you're not into m / f/m three somes. All women know what they have that we want. God bless those that love to give pleasure. But, all of them will trade, given the proper circumstance. That includes yo mama.

Only good energy.

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito; 1152130]From my experience, even the juice-drinking lives with mom has to be home at 10pm kind of girl is still a puta at heart. There are three kinds of women in this world, putas out in the open, putas operating on the down low, and putas who don't even know their own true nature. But that nature NEVER changes.

My Colombian ex wasn't a puta when I met her, but she became one later, for many reasons. I spent 5 years with her in total, although the first part of that was long distance. We had real good times and real bad times.

One day I ran some rough numbers. For all the amazing mind-blowing barrier-stomping sex we had, and for what the relationship cost me in cold hard cash, I'd say I came about even compared to P4P. But I had a will of IRON with that girl. The other guys in her life have been repeatedly bled dry by her material interests :P (which also goes to show that Colombian men aren't really making out like bandits with these girls either!).

My American Newyorican ex wife was definitely a net loss, I woulda been better off with P4P. By quite a long shot, even at inflated NY prices for pussy compared to here.

The girl I had a 2 month fling with who was from another city, I made out like a bandit in those terms. I bought a few little gifts for her, took my own bus to visit her (when she came here she paid her own transport) , paid the hotel (45k a night 2 people, the hotel owner appreciates the frequent business) , when I was in her city she paid the food and taxis etc and I did the same for her. And we had the best sex I ever had. She's also firmly a semi-pro, NOT a non-pro.

The non-pros I think will tend to be a WORSE deal as they will be worse in bed and less honest about the way things are REALLY working in the relationship. Like I said, they may not even really know their own true intentions. 99% of human beings are actually totally out of touch with their own selves.

But don't fool yourselves, Colombia is a VICIOUSLY competitive country, these women are all beautifully turned out for a REASON, they have goals in mind ALL THE TIME and you are corollary to them at best. All this romance and sweet-talk shit here is just a veil hiding the reality. And the Colombianas play this game better than any other women I have ever seen. Women all over the world WILL trade up given the opportunity. And your 40 year old veterana "non-pro" GF is JUST as likely to get some on the side as any hot 20 year old. Reality check over! [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Legal Tender;1152198]But, all of them will trade, given the proper circumstance.[B] That includes yo mama[/B][/QUOTE]And yo grandmama too! Hehehehe

Damn LT! Thats a reality check fo yo a* LMAO!

[QUOTE=Legal Tender; 1152198]The frequent discussion of "pros" or "semi-pros" or "non-pros" really is a refusal to recognize reality. All relationships are contractual. The puta that sells her time an hour at a time is not all that different from the "amateur" that promises lifetime commitment. Every contract should have a consequence for the party that breaches it. Today with no fault divorce, that contract simply means that the partners are together until one decides the "marriage has become unsupportable," whatever the fuck that means. Simply put, if you find one of these girls that you chose to care about, then do it. The karma is from what you give, not what you get. The only thing you can be certain is that she's not fucking someone else when she's fucking you. And that assumes you're not into m / f/m three somes. All women know what they have that we want. God bless those that love to give pleasure. But, all of them will trade, given the proper circumstance. That includes yo mama.

Only good energy. [/QUOTE]

While I have been reading about the latest debate over Pro vs Non Pro I think valid points are made on both sides. I think what is lacking here is the fact that this is a issue that is different for each person. A young good looking guy living in Colombia has a huge advantage in getting true Non Pros over the average ISG monger. That said, at least in my case I need the same type of girl that the young Stud gets. Now any fool knows an older Gringo with not a lot of Spanish will have very little chance to get that choice girl. So the only option is for him to go the Pro route. This way a guy like me can get that 20 year old Stunner. Sure it will cost me some money, but I get what I want the only way I can. So for me it is not a question of which is better, a Pro or Non Pro. It is a question of do I want to keep up the high standards I have set for myself or do I want to drop down in company and go for an older women who is a Non Pro. The key here IMHO is to be completly honest with yourself. The only variable I can throw in the mix is to hunt for that Gem and treat her good for as long as I can till a bigger fish comes along and snaps her up from me. No problem, just time to start the hunt again.

[QUOTE=LuckyEddie; 1152116]Agreed. Especially the time thing. Most girls with their shit half together aren't into the 2 week vacationing foreigner (nor the foreign guy way out of her league). The slutty girls will be and therein lies [B]the grey area [/B]- and lastly the pros as long as your money is green.

I guess my post was to address the guys who say they are all girls are putas and all liars and all have other novios and it just costs less to screw putas as opposed to non pros. This is simply not true. These guys just never get to meet and date the regular girls.

A guy with decent game, average income living in Colombia going after girls somewhat in his league can find paradise. Feminine, good cooks, knows her place, is a great sensual lover, sweet, in great shape, beers and a half a pint of rum, doesn't need much to be happy; just a guy in her league who is not a player. [/QUOTE]Great synopsis Lucky.

The true non-pros I have been with have been fantastic as well as very cost-effective.

Like you say though, when trying to mix and or confuse the non-pro world with the pro, things can get a bit upside down.

I coulda done better but I coulda done a LOT worse.

To me, thinking you've found Mrs. Right is just setting yourself up for failure and heartache, just sayin'

Colombia is a violent country and women prefer to use their pussies as their main weapon.

[QUOTE=Ricker; 1152268]Great synopsis Lucky.

The true non-pros I have been with have been fantastic as well as very cost-effective.

Like you say though, when trying to mix and or confuse the non-pro world with the pro, things can get a bit upside down. [/QUOTE]Sorry guys I beg to differ. They're all liars and NONE of them are going to be faithful.

Anybody who comes down here with the idea that women are MORE faithful than Americans is really really REALLY fucking delusional, and just setting themselves up for a big fall. EVERYBODY here is cheating. EVERYBODY.

While it is true what LuckyEddie says about the meagre chances that an outoftowner has to get it on with true regular gals with half their shit together, I also agree with Bango. Not only in Colombia, but everywhere. Everybody is cheating on everybody given the opportunity and enough time.

There sure are a very small minority of individuals, both male and female, that for whatever personal reason stay true to their lover. Salute to these persons, they are idealists and deserve a lot of respect. But these are rather to be considered the exception that proves the rule.

Black and white are the infinitesimal extremes of the range, most of it all is nothing but endless shades of grey and one better try and come to terms with this fact of life.

Myself I think I've pretty much quit thinking of girls in terms of wh0res or non-wh0res. Human beings are complex creatures and what is true at one given time for someone might no longer be true a moment later for whatever reason or external influence.

Love is a guessing game and a gamble. You can take your chances and play or just sit back and watch people playing.

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito; 1152300]Sorry guys I beg to differ. They're all liars and NONE of them are going to be faithful.

Anybody who comes down here with the idea that women are MORE faithful than Americans is really really REALLY fucking delusional, and just setting themselves up for a big fall. EVERYBODY here is cheating. EVERYBODY.[/QUOTE]A little bid jaded? We have been talking about cost-effectiveness of a "true non-pro". It has nothing to do with being faithful. That's a whole different issue.

[QUOTE=Bango Cheito; 1152300]Sorry guys I beg to differ. They're all liars and NONE of them are going to be faithful.

Anybody who comes down here with the idea that women are MORE faithful than Americans is really really REALLY fucking delusional, and just setting themselves up for a big fall. EVERYBODY here is cheating. EVERYBODY. [/QUOTE]Wow, what a statement.

You just know that absolutely EVERYONE is cheating.

Obviously you've been burned, and badly.

We've all been burned here and there and that's where you learn and get a bit wiser.

If you come down here, as you say, and you want to meet a real and nice non-pro, you have to relax, be wise and just see what happens and hope for the best that you meet someone you connect with.
If not, move-on, relax and wait. You just can't rush things, that's where trouble starts.

As Lucky Eddie put it, your chances are slim if you're just a 2 week vacationer, a non-spanish speaker, monger only, etc type guy.

If you're NOT a naive, over-eager, Cupidos, Amigos. Com, non-spanish speaking, Captain save-a-hoe, etc, etc type guy, YES, of course you can meet nice girls in Colombia.

I always go into things with my eyes wide open, but I'm not so bitter to say that they're ALL liars and NONE of them will be faithful.

To me that's just silly.

[QUOTE=Ricker; 1152420]Wow, what a statement.

You just know that absolutely EVERYONE is cheating.

Obviously you've been burned, and badly.

We've all been burned here and there and that's where you learn and get a bit wiser.

If you come down here, as you say, and you want to meet a real and nice non-pro, you have to relax, be wise and just see what happens and hope for the best that you meet someone you connect with.

If not, move-on, relax and wait. You just can't rush things, that's where trouble starts.

As Lucky Eddie put it, your chances are slim if you're just a 2 week vacationer, a non-spanish speaker, monger only, etc type guy.

If you're NOT a naive, over-eager, Cupidos, Amigos. Com, non-spanish speaking, Captain save-a-hoe, etc, etc type guy, YES, of course you can meet nice girls in Colombia.

I always go into things with my eyes wide open, but I'm not so bitter to say that they're ALL liars and NONE of them will be faithful.

To me that's just silly. [/QUOTE]I'm sure that he didn't literally mean EVERYBODY, but it just seems like that sometimes both male and female when given the right time and place. My cuñado and his friends all of whom have beautiful steady novias for many years all have their side pieces and I can't even tell you the amount of girls I have been with that have "novios" and even HUSBANDS! Cheating is becoming, trivialized, second nature and now almost expected in most cases where your partner sometimes seems to look the other way.

[QUOTE=John Gault;1152260]So for me it is not a question of which is better, a Pro or Non Pro. It is a question of do I want to keep up the high standards I have set for myself or do I want to drop down in company and go for an older women who is a Non Pro. [B]The key here IMHO is to be completly honest with yourself[/B].[/QUOTE]Johnny Jumpup Gault I wholeheartedly agree. What is better for one guy may not be better for the next. The debate seemed to have been a main course of "which costs more pros or non pros" with a healthy side of "all non pros are putas as well as cheating, lying, evil women".

Some women are inherently honest, content and do not have the time and energy to roll the dice to sleep with 20 year old Pedro and risk what they have with the man who is actually their "first choice". They are not in Long distance relationships nor are in areas of temptation and their needs are fulfilled. IMHO the Colombiana is not as complex as the gringa.

Obviously these women are scarce, agreed, but do exist.

But being honest with yourself is a total virtue and true measure of a man's integrity becuase if you can't be honest with yourself, well so much about you is just a big lie.

Kinda like the guy who come here once every 2 months on vacation who thinks the 20 year old hottie is really into him is only accepting money from him, that he is the only sponsor, she is off the puta market and they both have a solid relationship. Only to find out big game playing and lies and cheating. Had the guy been honest with himself from day 1 he wouldn't be so bitter today.