Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1560141]I think I understand that most guys in Oilies, are accepting looks that are just not good enough for me. Its a lot easier to sit in a bar and spend time deciding if a girl is right than to do it in an Oily. You are expected to choose a girl without delay. That is sort of intolerable to me. At least at Soapies you can sit and stew over the line up for a long time, and even call girls over for a drink first.[/QUOTE]Damn, folks are so different. I really don't want interaction before I choose. Interviewing the girl, engaging in idle chat, etc. Is just not what I am interested in. Modus operandi is pick the girl and have at it. I have a GF and love interacting with her, but hey, when out for a session, I am out for a session. That is why I read the forum and listen to friend's recommendations. My issue with Soapies is I want a PSE and a very well developed skill set. With a great BJ, rimming, and intensity a given. I don't want to ask or negotiate. Even if a gal is a 10 in my book, if that is not on the menu, I am not interested. Give me a 7 that can make me blow twice in a hour any day. I have found skill sets to be very unpredictable in Soapies. Sadly this is also becoming the case in some oilies. The gals are just not getting proper training. They really should be guided for few sessions by a good mentor. In fact, this used to be the case. What made Baron's and Tulip so amazing was you knew you were getting a gal who knew her way around the male anatomy.

Believe me, if there was a Soapy that provided PSE service across the board, I would be there. Nothing would make me happier then to find a place with great looking gals who provided PSE. Sadly guys tend to lower their performance standards if the gal really good looking and of course, lookers know they can get away with less.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1560327]Yes, the massage places are the bargains. The service tends to be much better, too.

My off-the-cuff example goes like this: It seems most of the Thai go-go scene has "degenerated" into short-time encounters. Short time used to be around 3 hours, but is now an hour, or so, from what I understand. Prices vary, but top-notch go-go girls go for 3, 000. 4,000 for a short time encounter. So that, coupled with the bar fine (600 and up) , a couple of lady drinks (150 each, minimum) , plus a couple of drinks for yourself, and you're knocking on the door of $200. IMHO, a go-go is very poor value for money these days, but many still go to BKK for them.[/QUOTE]It really has gotten crazy expensive. Even a tamada gal will want 1500 to 2k. So you are looking at 150 USD. Contrast this with 1k plus 500 baht BK, not that long ago, Add in a couple of drinks at 100 baht and at the 40 to 1 exchange rate you were looking at 50 USD. And across the board service was better and so were attitudes. Just don't get dropping 3 to 4 times the money for less service.

Used to be a huge GoGo guy. Was in Cowboy or Nana 3 to 4 times a week for 7 or 8 years (between 99 and 07). Had so much fun at Rainbow 1, Long Gun and the old Midnight Bar. When the Arab bought Midnight it was the beginning of the end for me in Cowboy. Now it is neon, tourists gawking (and I don't mean sex tourists) , coyote girls (I mean really WTF?) , etc. It is really more of a spectacle than an area where guys go to BF girls. I think the key element that bothers us old timers is that it is just not "fun" anymore. It is what we talk about most when reminiscing about our tenure here. Lower Sukhumvit was a very fun area. The face of tourism has changed. It is no longer mainly Western dudes with a bit of means coming to have a good time. In fact, they are in the minority. The streets are clogged with a pretty unsavory demographic. Just take a look on the steps outside the 7-11 on the corner of Soi 13. Full of Africans selling drugs. Ladyboys abound outside Sofitel's Asian flagship hotel. I would really like to see the area cleaned up. And I can't help but think at some point it will. What was once charmingly sleazy is now just ugly. With new properties like Hyde opening, maybe there is hope.

I just can't be bothered with GoGos. If I want to drink with friends, we go to places with good beer and liquor. If I want to look at women, I go to a mall on the weekend. If I want a session it is an oily.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1560324]OMG! I, too, remember the $20 per night ladies. It wasn't that long ago.

Have the rich Chinese tourists really pushed prices up that high? $100 in Cambodia is still a lot of money. That's insane.[/QUOTE]All night was 20 USD at Martinis or Sharkys. ST was 10 bucks. And both places were filled with Viet girls. 15 years ago Khmer working girls were in the minority. In fact, there were very few of them. One went to PP to shag white skinned Viet girls. Most all were very good performers as well. Lots of wonderful aggression during the act. Far more physical than most Thai or Khmer gals. PP lost its appeal for me when they kicked most of the Viets out.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1560303]2 a. M, the time when most of the girls of the gogo's become FL![/QUOTE]This used to really be the case. Standing outside Cowboy or Nana about 215-230 was unreal. You would be approached by countless girls."Go with you." Now, they seem far more interested in going to drink and eat with their friends. Shows just how much money they are making.

Girl from Bacarra sent me this a few minutes ago. Anyone know if this is now or from before.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1560404]This used to really be the case. Standing outside Cowboy or Nana about 215-230 was unreal. You would be approached by countless girls."Go with you." Now, they seem far more interested in going to drink and eat with their friends. Shows just how much money they are making.[/QUOTE]Years ago at closing time many of the Nana girls would simply move to Nana carpark, the Grace, the Thermae, etc. Then no BF. These days the Thermae seems to close at 2AM. Times have changed. Obviously some girls absolutely have to get money and cannot go home till they do. A street girl other night very late offered me sex for 500. She was average looking so I guess doable for some. Face not great. Had clothes on so I could not see the body properly. LOL.

It's only a small percentage that are making good money. Its a pitiful scene at Soi 23 at 2 to 3 AM. Girls can hardly walk. Too drunk and too tired to seriously attract a customer. Many are picked up by Thai guys on motorbikes. Some live far away like Don Meuang or Minburi, some a bit closer On Nut or Ratchada. Many girls are sleeping upstairs in the bar for the night, as they did not make any money and cannot afford to travel backward and forward every night. Some cannot afford to rent a room. Its common for several girls to share a room somewhere too.

In times not long gone, a lot of girls have been habitual hooked on Ice. The bar had to ban this and any girl caught using would be fired. So now its simply back to being drunk on tequilas or Thai whiskey like Saeng Som. I don't perform when drunk and I find Thai girls don't perform well when drunk either (perhaps some exceptions go wild in bed but that is usually when just a small amount of alcohol). Thai girls often get drunk quite easily. So don't overdo the "leg openers". They are already open. LOL.

The No. 1 girl in Suzi Wong is smart. Her room is only a few hundred metres from Cowboy. She can afford a room easily as is making big money. Doesn't drink alcohol. Has her head screwed on the right way alright. I was staying at Admiral Premier so she could walk over to my Hotel for a swim in the pool. Actually she can't swim very well but likes to play in the water in this hot weather.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;1560462]Girl from Bacarra sent me this a few minutes ago. Anyone know if this is now or from before.[/QUOTE]Seems to have been this morning. Either Bacarra on fire or right above my favourite hamburger stand. Seems was not too serious.

Not that far in past Rawhide I believe was burnt fairly seriously.

I haven't seen the fire show recently. I wonder has it been discontinued at Rawhide and Suzi W?

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;1560462]Girl from Bacarra sent me this a few minutes ago. Anyone know if this is now or from before.[/QUOTE]Read a statement on a blog posted at 8:42am BKK time that there was a fire there overnight. No other information.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1560251]Not sure that you really meant it that way. I mean how would you choose a Soapy girl, if eye-candy was not an aspect. Okay she is not nude, but she still has to have something in the look. I prefer to see girls standing up. Its very hard to asses the figure of a seated clothed girl, especially when you are a man like me who likes a hot ass.[/QUOTE]Soapies like Poseidon, La Belle, The Lord or wherever are just not designed for someone dropping by(even after buying a drink) just to watch eye candy. Yes, a quick check of fishbowls you can get away with (Emannuelle not bad for that) but its not like Go Go's where just buying a drink and enjoying the nude women dancing is acceptable on a repetitive basis night after night basis.

So in that sense, Go Go's are an entertainment bargain, and if you can't afford lets say a Rainbow dancer, you can just pickup a FL for 1/2 the price in NPL.

Right now 6. 30 pm all the furniture is out of Baccara out front to de smokify it I guess. Burn hole in the canopy up top. I don't think too serious looks from outside.

My hamburger stand was not affected.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1560465]Years ago at closing time many of the Nana girls would simply move to Nana carpark, the Grace, the Thermae, etc. Then no BF. These days the Thermae seems to close at 2AM. Times have changed. Obviously some girls absolutely have to get money and cannot go home till they do. A street girl other night very late offered me sex for 500. She was average looking so I guess doable for some. Face not great. Had clothes on so I could not see the body properly. LOL.

It's only a small percentage that are making good money.[/QUOTE][url]Http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=th&v=74[/url]

True, only a small percent make good money, but for those 5% or whatever number it can be an obscene amount, particularly those with guys mailing them money and those having regulars outside the Go Go's

Beyond that one might ask in regard to the 95%, then why is NPL not loaded with go go girls after 2 pm? Why is NPL overall probably half as busy late night and early AM (even adjusted for lost high season etc) as it was 5 to 10 years back?

I am thinking this is what (relative) affluence does, and Bangkok has been at virtually full employment for a few years now, unlike in prior years. While they don't pay much, (non sex) jobs are plentiful. So not much wory about the having the basics in life to get by. That fear factor is gone. So unless a girl really wants the big bucks, she will just be happy with being part of the 95% low to mid wage sex worker types, so NPL they just skip.

I now hear the entire upstairs part is blackened. No one was present when electrical fault set it off. So may have taken time to be detected.

[QUOTE=Western787;1560553]Soapies like Poseidon, La Belle, The Lord or wherever are just not designed for someone dropping by(even after buying a drink) just to watch eye candy. Yes, a quick check of fishbowls you can get away with (Emannuelle not bad for that) .[/QUOTE]Of course no goes to a Soapy JUST only to ogle. However I like the girl chosen to be eye-candy to my taste. I don't choose an ugly or dumpy girl with expectation she must be good to make up for lack of looks.

You may not understand. In most Soapies, you can sit with a drink looking for a very very long time, before making a decision. I was never asked to leave. Some Soapies have tables and chairs expressly for sitting drinking. E. G. Amsterdam. Some will give you a menu and allow you to order food. While eating you might suddenly spot the girl of your dreams arrive to the girl seating area. Then quickly you can call her over for a drink, and subsequently decide if you want to take her upstairs for the bath etc. Or offer her something to eat should she wish. La Belle and Utopia are soapies where customers commonly call girls out to sit with them for a drink first.

At Tarawadee, you could sit eating and drinking and never ever select a girl. It just depends on the way the place is set up.

I have years of experience of sitting outside Chao Praya II fishbowl eating and drinking and eventually selecting my next girl. Could easily have been 2 hours after I came down from going with a previous girl.

Despite what others report, I have sat at the bar for a while with a drink at Annies, as long as it was clear I have the intention to make a booking in due course. However the problem at Annies is that girls do not sit in the fishbowl all the time. They ring the bell to call girls to the viewing area. This doesn't happen at other real Soapies. I rate Annies as a strange cross between a Soapy and an Oily MP, in method of operation, even if there is no oil massage. The key thing about soapies is you have immense time to make your girl choice including waiting to see which girls come out from prior bookings.

At Eden, unfortunately it is a place where you are expected to choose from the lineup almost immediately and there is no chance to speak to the girls and ask anything at all, not even their names. This is one reason, I would not go there again, apart from not being impressed by the girls looks or acting talents. I like Oilies with girls sitting outside. Its possible to have a very brief conversation with them before entering and making a selection. You can at least make a joke or two and judge from reactions who is in a good mood. At least in Oilies you get a little more time to choose while the girls state their names.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1559546]Probably 20 years ago they were even cheaper and I can't imagine what a bargain it was 30 years ago.

BTW, do you think that the BKK sex industry would have a living without the two-week billionaires? Do you think the expats can sustain the industry? Just asking as this debate pops up every now and then and there is never a real answer but the moaning that the tourists are ruining the prices.

Probably without the tourists the scene would not even be opened to non-Thai and the expats or (the price) hardcore not allowed to even glimpse at the P4P girls.[/QUOTE]

The Bangkok sex industry is not limited to the establishments that cater mostly to foreigners (and preferably, the most gullible ones). Actually, I wouldn't regret most of these venues (especially the go-go bars) if they were disappearing tomorrow, because they have now become outrageous ripoffs where only people who have more money than sense can get satisfaction without noticing how their owners and service providers are taking them for ignorant fools!

As another ISG member has already written it, the profit margins are (outrageously) high in the P4P establisments located in popular tourist areas. Moreover, the prices have increased at a much higher pace than how prices have in Thai venues, especially since year 2008.

In Thai venues, the prices have increased and still fluctuate (more or less) following the evolution of the local average monthly income in all kinds of establishments (cheap brothels, karaoke joints and massage parlors of all sorts, etc.). If, for instance, one prestation in a specific establishment amounted about 15% of the Thai average monthly income ten years ago (6754 baht in 2004), then, it usually still costs about 15% of the current Thai average monthly income nowadays (12163 baht for the most recent data for the last quarter of 2013) and the quality of said prestation has not declined in the meanwhile.

Source for Thai monthly average income: http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/Standard/SDDS/Pages/sdds.aspx

Alas, that's not the same story when you check the price history in most tourist-oriented P4P establishments, especially in the most recent years. There are a few exceptions, but usually, it's because those places were way overpriced in the past (like the Eden Club in Bangkok, for example) or if the prices have somehow increased reasonably, it's more often than not to the detriment of the overall quality of providers and/or services rendered on average. One notable exception: the BJ bars. Those establishments still offer comparable quality for a relatively fair price that hasn't unreasonably increase in the past ten years (at least).

I don't want to discuss about this topic much longer, because it's usually a total waste of time, and alas, it won't prevent most of the two-week billionaires to still stupidly pay insane and fast increasing amounts of money (compared to the local average income) to get laid in the LOS. Yes, it's still quite affordable for most of us foreigners (although, it might not be the same in the not too distant future at the current price increasing pace), but it does not mean that we should accept being treated and considered as ignorant fools.

In these days and age, every monger can easily learn some basic facts about the local economics and then, can tell when he is getting ripped off. If more people were informed and smart enough, most tourist-oriented P4P places would still offer decent prestations at a fair price, but it had not been the case for quite a long time now.

Oh, and by the way, well-behaved Westerners are welcome in Thai venues (from low to high-end ones). Of course, you have to know the ropes and it might be difficult if you can't speak at least some basic Thai, but they are not forbidden to the white-skinned, long-nosed visitors. I know some places where Arabs and Indians are not welcome though (yeah, it's xenophobic and based on stupid prejudice), but I have yet to find a true "Thai-only" establishment. If they exist, they are far than being numerous compared to the large amounts of Thai venues that accept Western guests (and also other foreigners hopefully).

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1560664]In most Soapies, you can sit with a drink looking for a very very long time, before making a decision. I was never asked to leave.

Despite what others report, I have sat at the bar for a while with a drink at Annies, as long as it was clear I have the intention to make a booking in due course.[/QUOTE]As I speak very, very little Thai, I think of the soapies you refer to as an exotic out of the ordinary adventure for me. One of the appeals to me is the availability of food and drink and no rush nature of these venues.

I routinely have a drink at Annie's and the Dr BJ establishments before picking a girl. I am bemused by the reports that these venues discourage this.