Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Western787; 1565590]Nobody said Thailand was 1st world, nor did I say Bangkok currently IS fully 1st world. My point they are not NOT third world anymore and vastly different from many other southeast asia destinations.

Ok so the market is out of whack? Because dudes just pay too much? So its all demand side? That is absurd as (slow but steady over the past 10 to 15 years) of increasing prosperity and affluence certainly has impacted provider attitudes and pricing.

Even if you could get every Farang visiting Bangkok to take a course entitled "How to lowball hookers and keep prices down for everyone", what are you going to do about the Japs? : What are you going to do about wealthy Thais and others skimming girls off the regular P4P market girls and setting then up in apartments?

What are going to do about instant global communications, when the hot Go Go girl on stage gets a text from some monger 5000 miles away who is flying in tomorrow ready to pay big bucks?

Some guys overpay because they are idiots, but others have logical reasons to overpay, but it all in the context of what is occurring in the market.

Many of the remaining hot Go Go and bar girls are all the time obviously weighing (if not directly then subconsciously) the cost vs benefit of doing what they are currently doing vs going into the private mistress market vs getting a regular job, or whatever and they will price or attempt to price according to the best information they have on a day to day basis.

Look at the Coyote trend which is the beginning of the end for what was essentially flat pricing for Go Go Girls, (hot girls in effect pretty much the same prices or relatively close to what average girls cost). Soon the Coyote and regular Go Go girl concept wil merge, and hotter girls WILL in fact be priced far more. Y9u think overpaying dudes caused the Coyote trend also. Obviously increasing affluence has caused many changes having nothing to do with dudes overpaying[/QUOTE]That Japs have always had a separate market. Current Thermae is the perfect example.

For a hot well performing gal I can certainly see your point. However, gals most of us would not touch with a 10 foot pole are asking big bucks. Paying Ferrari prices for a Ferrari is one thing. Paying those same or similar prices for a 10 year old Honda City is another.

The coyote trend is amazingly alarming. It has basically ended the concept of the GoGo bar. I don't think the coyote and Go Go concept wil merge. Blame the Iranian American for that one. It was his attempt to simply coax more people into his bars. Sadly gals can now make money in a Go Go and not go with customers.

In the end any market is demand driven. No demand no market. We are seeing the end game of the supply side non-sense in the US right now.

I do agree more than anything else economic development has effected the P4P industry in LOS.

There is really no logical reason to "overpay." Even in the Ferrari dealership, if a dude goes in and asks the price, he will not say,"Well, how about I give you double?" Men have always been idiots when it comes to poon. Most of us realize that we have a bit more "say" when we come to Thailand. Sadly, the "new breed" has decided not to take advantage of that say.

[QUOTE=BionicMan; 1565611]Fair enough and I am fully aware that you can't win on the price policy but what I think is that a farang who reads this forum should have learnt something and this includes also a fair price (and I do not mean the 700b. For a 2-hr ST and still water at 7-11 as LD).

You can't surely teach everyone how to spend wisely and not to overspend. But what's the point of writing down prices here to INFORM people if then people tends to ignore and comapres with prices at home and proud of doing so?

Lete us at least highlight, with no offence and no flaming, that that price is not in line. Then it is his money and his choice.

Oterwise the enxt new reader will read such a report and do not do a proper RTFF and will thjink that is the correct price as anyhow cheaper than home.[/QUOTE]Very well stated. Comparing what you pay at "home" is just not valid. It means nothing here. In the US a good craft beer at a bar is about 5 bucks. Here it is 10.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1565655]That Japs have always had a separate market. Current Thermae is the perfect example.

For a hot well performing gal I can certainly see your point. However, gals most of us would not touch with a 10 foot pole are asking big bucks. Paying Ferrari prices for a Ferrari is one thing. Paying those same or similar prices for a 10 year old Honda City is another.

The coyote trend is amazingly alarming. It has basically ended the concept of the GoGo bar. I don't think the coyote and Go Go concept wil merge. Blame the Iranian American for that one. It was his attempt to simply coax more people into his bars. Sadly gals can now make money in a Go Go and not go with customers.

In the end any market is demand driven. No demand no market. We are seeing the end game of the supply side non-sense in the US right now.

I do agree more than anything else economic development has effected the P4P industry in LOS.

There is really no logical reason to "overpay." Even in the Ferrari dealership, if a dude goes in and asks the price, he will not say,"Well, how about I give you double?" Men have always been idiots when it comes to poon. Most of us realize that we have a bit more "say" when we come to Thailand. Sadly, the "new breed" has decided not to take advantage of that say.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty much in agreement. And yes, the market seems "out of whack."

People have a tendency to try to fine one "culprit" as the cause of a problem. The Japs are too free-spending. Idiots pay too much. Yes, those are all issues. But I wonder if other things are at play here.

First, the laws of supply and demand are immutable. I think the supply of pretty, and willing, damsels is far smaller than it used to be. The Thai birth rate is proof of that. (It's a damned shame that the best looking ladies at NEP these days aren't!) I think the supply of "sex tourists" is still pretty high, as Thailand is still famous as a P4P destination. So, prices are bound to rise even as overall quality falls.

Next, the "new generation" of guys coming to LOS are so unbelievably pussy-whipped by feminism that it's scary. They will put up with an unbelievable amount of shit from a woman. Generally speaking, if the guy is weak the girl will walk all over him. Ten years ago, can you imagine watching some guy and bar girl scamper out of the bar, off to the ST hotel, and then she's back, $100 richer, in 30 minutes? Nobody would've put up with that. Now, if some guy won't put up with a bar girl's shit, there are 10 more behind him who will, who won't complain, and who will pay through nose for the privilege."Gee, it's a lot cheaper than back home."

Then, of course, you have the 2-week millionaires who will pay any price because it's their vacation. Not much you can do about that, but I wonder if they are the main problem. It may not be an issue (yet) in Farang Gulch, but the Chinese are running around with money falling out of their asses. If anybody's pushing up prices (at least outside of BKK) it's got to be them.

It seems to me that this witch's brew has yielded the results we see in BKK today. One poster is irritated that his $150 / hr date won't kiss. Another poor bastard had a nice time at $100 / hr. Dayum! These at or above Tijuana prices! There a pretty lady will come to your hotel for between $60 and $100 for a minimum of an hour. Even the girls in the gringo-centric go-go bars can easily be had for $80 to $100 for an hour, and no bar fine. The entire scene isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but obviously BKK is no longer the bargain it once was.

So, I guess the days of sanuk for sanuk's sake are over? Gone are the days when ST was 2 or 3 hours, LT was actually preferred by many girls, and GFE was GFE in every sense of the word. Now it seems these ladies have been replaced by clock-watching mercenaries. In a place where 60, 000 baht per month is a reasonably decent income. 3,000. 4,000 per HOUR is idiotic, IMHO. The scene has changed. The ship has sailed and it's not coming back. So, we adapt. I think the anachronistic go-go concept is dying. I'm unconvinced that a multi-tiered pricing approach will work, but I don't care. I, and others, have moved on to more "traditional" entertainment, like oilies, soapies, free-lancers, etc.

Last time I was in town I brought a nice toy with me. Unfortunately Cheer over at Bamboo was more than it could handle. It succumbed to cardiac arrest. A battery transplant could not revive it. This forced me to look for a replacement toy. To my dismay all I could find were a few cheap vibrators and dildos in a couple of the sidewalk stalls.

This prompts a few questions.

1. Did I miss something? Is there a sex toy super store anywhere in the mongering district, or elsewhere in Bangkok?

2. If there isn't, does anyone have any thoughts on why there is this glaring retail gap in the sex capital of the world?

Any thoughts or speculations, intelligent or otherwise, would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1565655]That Japs have always had a separate market. Current Thermae is the perfect example.[/QUOTE]Fully agreeing, must as the wealthy thai have their own locations.

The fact there is a Market for up scale prices doesn't mean a girl from nana car Park has to get the same as the circumstances are totally different. Otherwise an Ibis (offering, bed, shower, a bar downstairs, free Internet) should be entitled to ask for the same price as JW Marriott (offering bed, Schwaier, bar downstairs, paid internet).

The coma prison with back home should be an incentive "to spend less" as the rate is cheaper.

Apart the holiday atmosphere, why should I pay a girl in BKK (where we do know prices are different) same as back home.

It is not same as back home because you need to add the air ticket and the hotel.

Of course I do not calculate this in what I spend for mongering, but I am expecting to pay much less, ie a decent price for the locals.

I do not want to keep this people or area of the work under the stick so they cannot aspire to more income. But I am pretty sure that in a country where an average salary for office people is between 10 and 15k baht, a girl earning 30k (1 ST per day at 1/1. 5k each) is fair for all parities.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1565229]With all due respect man, you are the customer. Its your show, not hers. Words like "allowing." "consenting," "couldn't get her to kiss," and "I'll bet she makes the short walk over with me" make it sound like the customer is being dictated to.[/QUOTE]Geez! She just had to tell him how big his cock was and "embarrassingly" admit to "coming a few times during the 90 minute session". Some guys just want to be flattered.

[QUOTE=Tits_Lover;1565587]Short walk into Soi 23 and inside Citadines (1200 BHT / night). GREAT deal.[/QUOTE]That is really a good deal! Where did you get it? The normal price is almost double.

[QUOTE=Tits_Lover;1565587]Usually the reception calls me to announce the guest but this time I heard the bell at the door and was bit surprised.[/QUOTE]To use the elevator you need a key card. I wonder how they got in. They could have used the stairs but it is not obvious where the stairs are. Also, did you tell them at which room you stayed?

I would have a word with management about this. It is one thing to allow a guest to bring unregistered guests, but a whole other thing to have staff actively allow unaccompanied ladies go up to your room and even bypass the use of a room key to operate the elevator.

[QUOTE=Lalake;1565642]Thailand is still Third World, technically that is. For those who don't know, First World was always the major economic powers, second world was the old Soviet Block countries, and everything else was third world.[/QUOTE]There has never been a"first world" or "second world". We have had the "Old World", meaning Europe and the "New World", meaning the Americas (North AND South). Then much much later, the do-gooders and NGO's coined the word "Third World" for everything else, which at that time was indeed the less economically developed part of our world.

And now we even have a "Fourth World", being the poor in the Old and New World.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1565694]Next, the "new generation" of guys coming to LOS are so unbelievably pussy-whipped by feminism that it's scary. They will put up with an unbelievable amount of shit from a woman. Generally speaking, if the guy is weak the girl will walk all over him. Ten years ago, can you imagine watching some guy and bar girl scamper out of the bar, off to the ST hotel, and then she's back, $100 richer, in 30 minutes? Nobody would've put up with that. Now, if some guy won't put up with a bar girl's shit, there are 10 more behind him who will, who won't complain, and who will pay through nose for the privilege."Gee, it's a lot cheaper than back home."

These at or above Tijuana prices! There a pretty lady will come to your hotel for between $60 and $100 for a minimum of an hour. Even the girls in the gringo-centric go-go bars can easily be had for $80 to $100 for an hour, and no bar fine. The entire scene isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but obviously BKK is no longer the bargain it once was.

So, I guess the days of sanuk for sanuk's sake are over? Gone are the days when ST was 2 or 3 hours, LT was actually preferred by many girls, and GFE was GFE in every sense of the word. Now it seems these ladies have been replaced by clock-watching mercenaries. In a place where 60, 000 baht per month is a reasonably decent income. 3,000. 4,000 per HOUR is idiotic, IMHO. The scene has changed. The ship has sailed and it's not coming back. So, we adapt. I think the anachronistic go-go concept is dying. I'm unconvinced that a multi-tiered pricing approach will work, but I don't care. I, and others, have moved on to more "traditional" entertainment, like oilies, soapies, free-lancers, etc.[/QUOTE]Could not agree with you more on all these points. The first really jumping out at me when I went back and read the 150 USD no kiss dude's post. Mongers 15 years ago would not have put up with that. The gal would never get any biz. Now the inmates are running the asylum.

When I came to BKK P4P prices were half of what they were in any Mexican border town and the service was great. Now it is more and the service is quite lacking for the most part. 3 to 4 k an hour for an uneducated gal that has finished 6th grade who can rent her wet spot is nuts. We are not talking about a high class call girl with a bag of tricks that can make your toes curl. We are talking about the equivalent of a West Virginia hillbilly who just happens to be thin and have all her teeth. Now as you said, that was fine as long as it was fun and the price was right. One's expectations were not that high. But at US 150, hey I expect a lot more. For that money I would expect a highly developed skill set, the ability to seduce (which is really lacking here) , etc. Example, gal goes into the shower, comes out in a very sexy neglige and crawls across the room to me. 150 for a clock watching wham bam? Hell, I will stay home and whittle my own puppet.

At least for awhile we still have the oilies where service is still pretty good. Of course that is changing as well with some places being CBJ only.

We had a great thing here for a long time. BKK was a monger's paradise from the Vietnam War till a few years ago. A really good run. I am really grateful that I caught the tail end of the Golden Age here and in Cambo. It was more fun than you can imagine. Today pales in comparison on so many levels.

BTW. 60k baht a month is beyond reasonable income in Thailand. I know quite a few Thais who hold advanced degrees and have 10 years exp who make that.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1565715]Last time I was in town I brought a nice toy with me. Unfortunately Cheer over at Bamboo was more than it could handle. It succumbed to cardiac arrest. A battery transplant could not revive it. This forced me to look for a replacement toy. To my dismay all I could find were a few cheap vibrators and dildos in a couple of the sidewalk stalls.

This prompts a few questions.

1. Did I miss something? Is there a sex toy super store anywhere in the mongering district, or elsewhere in Bangkok?

2. If there isn't, does anyone have any thoughts on why there is this glaring retail gap in the sex capital of the world?

Any thoughts or speculations, intelligent or otherwise, would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]Selling of sex toys is illegal in Thailand. But you can find them on Suk.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1565750]That is really a good deal! Where did you get it? The normal price is almost double.[/QUOTE]Yeah, great deal. 30% discount. An other fellow member gave me the tip in the hotel forum area. THE ASCOTT gives 30% discount if you register to their home page for some 30years celebration thing. It worked well.

[QUOTE]To use the elevator you need a key card. I wonder how they got in. They could have used the stairs but it is not obvious where the stairs are. Also, did you tell them at which room you stayed?[/QUOTE]I just told them the room number as you would do usually. Need to ask the management.

Thanks

In regard to the always present and ongoing issue of great beauties being skimmed off the market for private harems by procurers or spotters barely days or weeks after starting in G Clubs, massage parlors, bars, agencies, or wherever, (though the extreme case to the larger trend) this guy and his brother might be among the clients. Personally its possible some girls are being skimmed off BEFORE their first day working P4P (or G club equivalent) and before any normal monger even lays eyes on them, and generous commissions are going to the finders. Perhaps the spotters test them out personally first.

As an eyewitness states "Most of the girls" are "Filipino or Thai"

Of course there is no way to know precisely the quality of girls these guys are skimming off, but the mere fact an ex Miss USA was part of the harem tells us these guys are likely dealing at the top end of the market

[url]http://nypost.com/2014/05/10/inside-the-wacky-sex-obsessed-world-of-brunei/[/url]

[QUOTE=TellAll;1565620]Weather you think Bankok is 1st world or 3rd world, when the girl ask for 2000 and you give her 5000 and she wouldn't even kiss you and is gone in an hour, there is a problem. It is called overpaying for poor service. That is a problem anywhere.[/QUOTE]Read it carefully, the parties agreed ahead of time if the session went over one hour, she would be likely be paid in excess of the 2000, and the GBaron apparently kept his promise.

Quoting GBaron "on stage was #66, Kip. Who was exactly what I wanted. Mamasan asked me what I wanted, I said a beer and pointed at Kip. She also wanted me to buy her (Mamasan) a drink. I declined that. She asked if I wanted a room, and I asked if I could take her back to the JW. OK. I asked about long time, and she said the girl doesn't do long times. Still, it was getting late (probably 12:45) and I knew I was only going to get one pop. And even that wasn't a guarantee based on my earlier undisciplined actions. Kip came over, I asked her if she would go to the JW. She said. 600 for bar fine and 2000 for her for short time. Reiterating that she didn't do long times. She said if it takes more than 1 hour, I could give extra, depending on how."

There is an overpay issue here, but I commend the OP for describing the transaction as it occurred, as he easily could have glossed over the issue to avoid the wrath of the Overpay Police in here. Plus the girl apparently didn't normally do Farangs, so perhaps he cleared the way for others.

The girl probably has a boyfriend whom she is in love with (which she pretends is her "Mom") and that could be part of the kissing issue. However at those prices, particularly the 2nd time when the girl knows the pay scale, I would think she might add some kissing because it does make things much more natural. With sex w / o kissing you really can't get into the fantasy IMHO because you are being reminded every second that its 100% P4P. However, some girls just don't kiss, and the OP believes he got his money's worth.

Providers who can work the FS business while simultaneously being in love with a real life boyfriend is something not very common in the west, so IMHO we should deem it a plus these girls are still in the business.

Thailand is not currently among those countries generally deemed "third world" and this is because birth rates are now low, vaccinations are given, low unemployment, not dependent per se on other states, and poverty to the degree it exists is generally not of the grinding and hopeless variety (with some variation by geographic region) and in fact the food supply is being generated internally and is plentiful, with a strong export market, including food and other goods.

20 years ago? Yes, third world, in 2014? No, and even the (declining) provider market itself reflects that as other options now abound for young women.

Anyone the doesn't notice the connection being increasing affluence and the declining P4P sector, has their eyes shut

Among the sources to confirm this http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm

[QUOTE=Western787; 1565849]Thailand is not currently among those countries generally deemed "third world" and this is because birth rates are now low, vaccinations are given, low unemployment, not dependent per se on other states, and poverty to the degree it exists is generally not of the grinding and hopeless variety (with some variation by geographic region) and in fact the food supply is being generated internally and is plentiful, with a strong export market, including food and other goods.

20 years ago? Yes, third world, in 2014? No, and even the (declining) provider market itself reflects that as other options now abound for young women.

Anyone the doesn't notice the connection being increasing affluence and the declining P4P sector, has their eyes shut.

Among the sources to confirm this [url]http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Oh, I agree with you. There are fewer gals because there are more choices. This has led to providers being the bottom of the barrel. There are far fewer "semi-pros" these days. Back in the day I was a Thermae rat. Was there about 4 nights a week and my bread and butter was office workers out to supplement their income. Most would work three or four nights a month and they had the luxury of choosing a dude that appealed to them. Sex was usually great and 1k baht. Several times gals drove me to ST rooms in their cars. Office workers make enough money now. They don't have to supplement.

Even if the political unrest leads to a bit of a crash, it will not reverse this trend. The Golden Age is over.