Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Actually, as my balcony overlooks Klong Toey, I've taken to just tossing money to the heaving masses below, much like Caesar tossing bread to the crowds at the Colosseum.

So, if I happen to hit a P4P girl down there, by accident, so be it. :D[/QUOTE]

Blimey! 500 quid a week goes a lot further than I thought in Thailand's premier destination :D.

[QUOTE=Retired Army]You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.[/QUOTE]
This is a great buzzphrase which is perpetuated by farang who live their lives in the farang ghettos and culture of Thailand (even OTH, the most informed and BKK-integrated expat on ISG Thailand, moved back from a Thai neighbourhood to a tourist one as soon as he could afford to do so). In all my travels, I've learned to discard the 'capital city mentality' of every country as unrepresentative of every country's overall flavour.
In real life, the vast majority of Thai prostitutes can't wait to get out of the bar and get the bar out of their lives, [i]given a viable alternative[/i]. This is a fact that is is borne out by every available set of statistics.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]If you have a heart its hard not to be sucked in or suckered in. And at the end of the day its really not a lot of money to most of us unless you go idiotically overboard.[/QUOTE]
Think of it as a transfer of wealth from rich to poor, or from West to East.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. (snip) So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically[/QUOTE]
A retired bargirl is not a pretty sight. That is why the few that get "lucky" along the way inspire the rest to seek out permanent walking ATM(s) via sponsorship or marriage. Poor people everywhere, especially poor women who sell their bodies, are always one step away from tragedy. For most, it seems to be the way of life here in Thailand.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.[/QUOTE]
A lot of them are crazy (like my friend Fa in the pictures). Behind the make-up and forced smiles, you can see it in their eyes. But they're also wily and have incredible survival skills, much like feral cats or coyotes. Nevertheless, they are human and they do cry. Some of them all the way to the bank!

The real question is for all of the "big hearted" mongers out there: Would it make sense to "sponsor" a prostitute or stripper in your home country?

[QUOTE=Fon Tok]
The real question is for all of the "big hearted" mongers out there: Would it make sense to support a prostitute or stripper in your home country?[/QUOTE]
In view of the fact that the vast majority of Thai women living in the West are ex-Thai prostitutes, I'm going to take a leap (and also speak for quite a few friends), and say "Yes". The success/failure rates of such marriages are generally similar to the local national averages. And the 'return to prostitution' rates are very small: Usually related to financial hardship following marriage breakdown. I shagged a quite fit early middle-aged Thai woman in Manchester UK last month who had lived locally for fifteen years and had certainly never worked the local P4P scene in the 8 or so years I've been using it. She was recently single and trying to raise the funds for a trip home to see family for herself and her kids.

[QUOTE=DRRonin]I think most of us have at some point if you have spent enough time there. If you have a heart its hard not to be sucked in or suckered in. And at the end of the day its really not a lot of money to most of us unless you go idiotically overboard. On the few occasions I have sent money after hearing a sad plea that would make a crocodile cry all I hope is that they had a good time with it and bought themselves something nice. I have no illusions about them saving it or getting them out of their current business activities.

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. I've been coming to Thailand for about 15 years now and in that time have seen wave after wave of new girls replace the older ones. And I rarely come across ones from years previously. So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically - did they go back home and set up a buisness, get married to a farang, commit suicide, find a job in a beauty parlor or just keep doing the same thing but somewhere else. I'd love to see a study on the migration of bar girls or see a series of films like Michael Apted directed where he follows the lives of some people and sees where they are every 7 years - except with bar girls. I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.[/QUOTE]
That's a great post. The answer to your question about their stories is imo that they ended up in all the scenarios you suggest, the suicide one being the smallest category. What a great idea for a reality TV show.

[QUOTE=Patterson]Could anybody tell me if its free to take girls back to the Bel Aire Princess i think the name is Sukhumvit soi 5

Thanks[/QUOTE]
No. They have a joiner fee.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier](even OTH, the most informed and BKK-integrated expat on ISG Thailand, moved back from a Thai neighbourhood to a tourist one as soon as he could afford to do so).[/QUOTE]

That's not true. With the exception of 2 years on Suk 22 - not a great experience, but an easy way to get re-established, when I first came back to Thailand after a 9-month guest lectureship abroad - I've lived in solidly Thai neighbourhoods both in Bangkok and Hua Hin. I doubt any tourists could find my current place. Even many BKK taxi drivers have trouble finding it, unless I tell them to use the Suk 16 access point.

While I live in a nice condo, it's in a solidly Thai neighbourhood next to the slums of Klong Toey. While I might denigrate Thais from time to time, I still prefer their company over many Farang, especially many Farang expats. Otherwise, what's the point of living here, if you're going to live in a foreign ghetto? The Japanese are by far the worst for this. They don't integrate at all.

It's true, I enjoy the occasional pint and a plate of bangers and mash at Robin Hood, or The Dubliner. I go to the bi-monthly Brit comedy shows at The Bullshead with all the other expats in town. But, I'm not one of those who's been here 20 years, never eats Thai food and can still only muster a spastic "sawasdee krup" as their total Thai language output. Unfortunately, the town is full of these sad-asses, down at the local on a Sunday afternoon, watching the footie with the missus (even if she's a Thai missus) on the big-screen TV and longing for a home that only exists in their imagination. I admit that I like these places as a retreat from too much "Thai-ness" because, with the exception of the the preponderance of Thai girls, and perhaps the Thai wait staff, you could just as easily be sitting in a pub in Lutton. But, I'm not expecially fond of hanging with this crowd and am happy to return the chaos of my Thai neighbourhood - of course, viewed safely from the bastion of my hi-rise condo :) - like the French in the castle in Monty Python and The Holy Grail..."I fart in your general direction!".

[QUOTE=DRRonin]

One thing that always fascinates me though is what happens to the girls. I've been coming to Thailand for about 15 years now and in that time have seen wave after wave of new girls replace the older ones. And I rarely come across ones from years previously. So I wonder if their stories ended happily or tragically - did they go back home and set up a buisness, get married to a farang, commit suicide, find a job in a beauty parlor or just keep doing the same thing but somewhere else....[/QUOTE]
Of course we lose track of most P4Ps.
But occassionally you meet a special P4P girl that is class above the rest, or you just never got bored with.
So I am still in contact with a girl met in Lollipop 15-16 years ago. She has quit P4P, lived in Sweden for a while, but now trying to run her own business.
Another I met in CPII Soapy 6 years ago and she has quit P4P for several years now and also lived OS for a while.

A couple of Thai girls I have known in Australia for many years may have been in P4P in Thailand a long time ago.
As they went to Australia with Farangs. But I don't care to interogate on these issues.

Definite non-P4P girls I am ignoring for this post.

[QUOTE=Patterson]Could anybody tell me if its free to take girls back to the Bel Aire Princess i think the name is Sukhumvit soi 5. Thanks[/QUOTE]
I stayed there last fall. If you don't want BG pillow-talk, the 24-hour in-house massage girls are very friendly at the "Princess!"

[QUOTE=Retired Army]You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl.[/QUOTE]Well, that's not reallywhat I meant, RA. I meant that all the forces that made her resort to the bar are still going to be operative. And it takes a while for a girl to become part of the bar scene, just like it takes a dog a while to become kennelized at the SPCA (and some dogs never do). IMO there are plenty of girls, even some who enjoy aspects of bar life, who don't have any of it's negative aspects embedded in their character.

Guys should have their eyes open, and be prudent, but they are in far more danger. By any order of magnitude you care to name. Of financial ruin from relationships with women back in Farangland (due to the predatory nature of Farang women and a complicitous legal system) than anything that can befall them in the Kingdom, bar girls included, unless they behave completely witlessly.

[QUOTE=DRRonin] I sometimes think these girls are the strongest people mentally in the world - to get up every day and know the best thing ahead of you is being screwed by some stranger and do it day after day without cracking up kind of amazes me.[/QUOTE]


That's why most of them abuse alcohol or drugs.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]

In real life, the vast majority of Thai prostitutes can't wait to get out of the bar and get the bar out of their lives, [i]given a viable alternative[/i]. This is a fact that is is borne out by every available set of statistics.[/QUOTE]

That's why the want to marry a Farang, but I don't care what you say. Once a girl has worked as a bar girl she is scared forever to one degree or another.

And, BTW, I would be interested in seeing the statistics to which you refer in your post. Can you please provide?

[QUOTE=Washburn]Of financial ruin from relationships with women back in Farangland (due to the predatory nature of Farang women and a complicitous legal system) than anything that can befall them in the Kingdom, bar girls included, unless they behave completely witlessly.[/QUOTE]
A few years ago, two and a half years of marriage cost me almost $40K(us) and a whole lot of pain!

With that in mind, the sincere appreciation I receive from giving my smiling Thai GF, gig, or the odd BG a few thousand baht every now and then is a true pleasure.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]In view of the fact that the vast majority of Thai women living in the West are ex-Thai prostitutes...[/QUOTE]

That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.

patterson, i have stayed there two years ago and never had a problem or needing to pay for bringing a girl in. and i would be very surprised if any hotel especially in this area wants to charge you for it. (breakfast is a different story of course).
and if they tried i would refuse and tell them everywhere else it is free.
good luck

[QUOTE=Retired Army]That's a commom misconception, but unfortunately it's a stereotype and wrong. I know a few Thai ex-prostitites living in the West, but the vast majority are decent, hardworking, non P4P women striving for a better life for them and their families.[/QUOTE]
It's a common truism, a stereotype and right. It's how the vast majority of Thai women meet their farang husbands. Sad, but true. The (wrong) stereotype perpetuated by idiots such as yourself is that all ex-bargirls want to continue behaving like bargirls when given a viable alternative. The vast majority (who make up the vast majority of khun Thai living in the west) are far more sensible and mature than your beloved gtg's, and know when to embrace a gilt-edged opportunity when they see one: As attested to by several million successful Thai/farang marriages, and an awful lot of successful ex-bargirl businesswomen, around the world.

Wake up and smell the roses, Army. The world is full of expat Thai women whos' husbands and ex-husbands didn't travel to Thailand on US Army business.