Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591443]Some guys believe the girl should take 4000 for LT. However some won't. Some girls can do 3 STs in an evening, have 3 quick fucks, go home and get a good night's sleep. Desperate girls that have no customers will take the 4 K. Can't expect every girl to be the same.

One of my favourite bargirls is very reluctant to take LT from Friday through to Sunday as she has many customers, and can fit quite a few short times in. She will do LT for a very high rate of course. However she doesn't like to negotiate or state her price, so its easier for her just to say no LTs on Friday, Sat, Sun. She likes LT better on quite days like a Tuesday. She wants to maximise the money and keeping all the regulars happy that they get a chance, even if its only 2 hrs.[/QUOTE]Honestly, I cannot remember ever having paid more than 3500 baht for LT with any girl from Suzie Wong. Perhaps I like girls that are not top of the market and they come at a discount.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591603]There are girls out there with techniques that will always be better than a wank. I know one or two girls with a squeeze box pussy. Try a session at Dr BJ with big soft tits brushing your balls while getting the DT BBBJ. Try the VIP session with body slide, or the Nuru, or a balls massage expert. There are some really special sensations that can be experienced.[/QUOTE]There's a cute girl in BKK I sometimes see at the NPL or on lower Suhkumvit who brushes all over a guy's body with her large DD knockers as she cat licks him everywhere. She is worthy of a repeat from time to time when I feel like I want to feel the physical body of a female. OTOH I can get just as turned on or even more excited watching the same type of thing in videos or pics of 100's of the world's most humunguous juggs. You'ld be lucky to find even one TG with knockers that size. While women are more stimulated by touch than men, with men the visual is more important.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591595]Sure my things are not necessarily supposed to be techniques as such. Just different things that a girl may have some appreciation of or just find different to the norm. Things that would never happen in porn for example. In porn guys are not really giving the girl a good service at all. Its more about just take what they want.[/QUOTE]Much of what experienced TGs have learned sexually was taught to them by farangs from many countries who learned most of what they know from porn. I'd be surprised if there's anything you've done that hasn't been done already 100 times amongst the millions of porn clips. A lot of porn doesn't even involve guys or when it does they are often showing the girl a very good time. Not that there's anything wrong with the pleasure in P4 P or porn being one sided. The girl is not my GF so I feel no emotional pressure to "take care" of her at all, other than the huge monetary compensation these ladies recieve. Though I'm sure some guys do it to try to compensate in areas they are lacking or to get something in return out of the lady. Or maybe they just enjoy being pussy whipped.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591603]I haven't met too many girls that actually want to pop 10 to 12 times. That maybe because most of them are hookers. LOL. However my GF pops so easily (not requiring incredible technique) she may get close to that before complaining of exhaustion. I never tried to count them.
[/QUOTE]Being a hooker might be the perfect job for a nympho. But only a small percentage of women qualify. I've read a few reports suggesting Indonesian women are like that, but whether this nationality has a larger percentage of them remains unknown. Being the male version, that might be the best type of girl for me, though I've met plenty at the Nana Hotel car park in Bangkok who were up for non stop sessions of an hour or four. One of those per week is about enough for me. That would be the equivalent of around twenty sessions for other guys who last an average of 10 minutes.

If I was younger & in better shape I might be up to it every day. But there's a reason why you see hardly any athletes on professional sports teams who are over 40 years old, let alone 70.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591443]Some guys believe the girl should take 4000 for LT. However some won't. Some girls can do 3 STs in an evening, have 3 quick fucks, go home and get a good night's sleep. Desperate girls that have no customers will take the 4 K. Can't expect every girl to be the same.[/QUOTE]I'm sure for some of the very popular girls that's the case but on the night in question there were a lot more girls than customers so I doubt anyone would be getting three quick fucks in. Someone needs to explain the concept of supply and demand to some of these girls.

As it stands I have never paid more than 4000 LT at SC or 3500 LT at Nana.

[QUOTE=Sammyt;1591857]I'm sure for some of the very popular girls that's the case but on the night in question there were a lot more girls than customers so I doubt anyone would be getting three quick fucks in. Someone needs to explain the concept of supply and demand to some of these girls.

As it stands I have never paid more than 4000 LT at SC or 3500 LT at Nana.[/QUOTE]Up to you what your budget is. There are certainly girls who set their price way higher than that, and if they don't get a LT customer, they can get several STs.

I believe that Noo Dee at SW, is looking to make between 6 K to 10 K on each of Friday to Sunday in total usually from several STs, and less on other quiet days. It is realistic too. No way is she ever going to take 4 K for LT, unless she is on the rag and can't fuck. She still gets bookings even when sex is not available. LOL.

She is almost always the preferred girl, and if she does, say an "Oil" show, she could easily have 3 customers all ready to BF her immediately. As one of her customers, I have experienced the situation when several customers are concurrently wanting to take her.

My smart procedure is to ring her and arrange to meet at 6. 30 PM for ST before the bar opens, or maybe try for a LT on a quiet day. Fortunately she likes me and that I fully understands how she operates. So I get to be a preferred customer. She is a very non typical girl. All the other girls cannot work out where her voodoo magic arts come from. Its not that she is exceptional on the bed. She can be good or not, depending on chemistry. It more that she is cute, very tight slim body, looks a lot younger than her real age, flashing dark eyes, and some special charisma. Also she has class. No alcohol, no smoking, no drugs, no gambling, good business head, works hard, no Thai BF, only putting her money into building the house.

Just one example. However the girl I like in Doll House has a tight body and great ass, and is also very popular. Does do LT, but I doubt she will go for a low price like 4 K. The girl I like in Crazy House has a 10 body and a good face too. If I offered her 4 K for LT, she would laugh at me. No interest at all. She would probably come back with something like I will give you 3 hours for 4 K.

Somebody needs to explain supply and demand to some of the punters too.

Okay Its unfortunate for me, I am liking the very No. 1 top girls in each bar. I know there are plenty of girls hard up for customers, who are not getting a fuck each day, who will accept 4 K for LT. They are probably just not high enough standard for me to be interested, with maybe the odd exception of a newbie type girl, great looking, that has no English, and cannot communicate with most customers.

Some guys think every girl should have the same price. They are sadly mistaken. Its not the reality. Girls in high demand can set much higher prices for LT, with no fear of being out of customers. They will make big money mostly by doing a succession of STs, probably making a min of 2. 5 K for each ST. I was pissed off with Rainbow 4 top girls, not because they only wanted a ST, but that they wanted to cut the time given very short as well. When you sit in R4, you see many top girls go for ST and return in well under 30 minutes. My idea of ST is 90 minutes.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1591893]Up to you what your budget is. There are certainly girls who set their price way higher than that, and if they don't get a LT customer, they can get several STs.

I believe that Noo Dee at SW, is looking to make between 6 K to 10 K on each of Friday to Sunday in total usually from several STs, and less on other quiet days. It is realistic too. No way is she ever going to take 4 K for LT, unless she is on the rag and can't fuck. She still gets bookings even when sex is not available. LOL.

She is almost always the preferred girl, and if she does, say an "Oil" show, she could easily have 3 customers all ready to BF her immediately. As one of her customers, I have experienced the situation when several customers are concurrently wanting to take her.

My smart procedure is to ring her and arrange to meet at 6. 30 PM for ST before the bar opens, or maybe try for a LT on a quiet day. Fortunately she likes me and that I fully understands how she operates. So I get to be a preferred customer. She is a very non typical girl. All the other girls cannot work out where her voodoo magic arts come from. Its not that she is exceptional on the bed. She can be good or not, depending on chemistry. It more that she is cute, very tight slim body, looks a lot younger than her real age, flashing dark eyes, and some special charisma. Also she has class. No alcohol, no smoking, no drugs, no gambling, good business head, works hard, no Thai BF, only putting her money into building the house.

Just one example. However the girl I like in Doll House has a tight body and great ass, and is also very popular. Does do LT, but I doubt she will go for a low price like 4 K. The girl I like in Crazy House has a 10 body and a good face too. If I offered her 4 K for LT, she would laugh at me. No interest at all. She would probably come back with something like I will give you 3 hours for 4 K.

Somebody needs to explain supply and demand to some of the punters too.

Okay Its unfortunate for me, I am liking the very No. 1 top girls in each bar. I know there are plenty of girls hard up for customers, who are not getting a fuck each day, who will accept 4 K for LT. They are probably just not high enough standard for me to be interested, with maybe the odd exception of a newbie type girl, great looking, that has no English, and cannot communicate with most customers.

Some guys think every girl should have the same price. They are sadly mistaken. Its not the reality. Girls in high demand can set much higher prices for LT, with no fear of being out of customers. They will make big money mostly by doing a succession of STs, probably making a min of 2. 5 K for each ST. I was pissed off with Rainbow 4 top girls, not because they only wanted a ST, but that they wanted to cut the time given very short as well. When you sit in R4, you see many top girls go for ST and return in well under 30 minutes. My idea of ST is 90 minutes.[/QUOTE]Sadly you are correct. Pricing used to be pretty standard. When I arrived in '99 gogos gals were 1 k ST 1. 5 LT (and most gals still preferred LTs). Then in the mid-'00 the guys started a bidding war and the gals took control. Now pricing is all over the place and IMHO for the most part way too high. I was never an oily dude till 07-08 because it was not good value. Cost 2100 for 90 min. I could get a great gal from Thermae for 1 k and 300 baht for ST hotel, which was the standard no discuss price till it became the domain of folks from the Land of the Rising Sun.

Good on the gals really, but for me just not worth it for gals of the same quality or less, most of whom would not perform up to my specs anyway. 2 K ST or more, plus BF, plus drinks, plus ST hotel? Yesh, dinner, drinks, BF, ST fee, and ST hotel used to come in around 75 USD. Hell, that is why we came to BKK. Now it is easily double that if not more.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1591906]Sadly you are correct. Pricing used to be pretty standard. When I arrived in '99 gogos gals were 1 k ST 1. 5 LT (and most gals still preferred LTs). Then in the mid-'00 the guys started a bidding war and the gals took control. Now pricing is all over the place and IMHO for the most part way too high. I was never an oily dude till 07-08 because it was not good value. Cost 2100 for 90 min. I could get a great gal from Thermae for 1 k and 300 baht for ST hotel, which was the standard no discuss price till it became the domain of folks from the Land of the Rising Sun.

Good on the gals really, but for me just not worth it for gals of the same quality or less, most of whom would not perform up to my specs anyway. 2 K ST or more, plus BF, plus drinks, plus ST hotel? Yesh, dinner, drinks, BF, ST fee, and ST hotel used to come in around 75 USD. Hell, that is why we came to BKK. Now it is easily double that if not more.[/QUOTE]Yes, I never, ever, paid more than 1,500 LT. I think I once paid 1,500 for ST 3 or 4 years ago at a beer bar in Patpong, but even then she complained that all the other women were getting 3 K for ST. Not this guy.

But I digress. Over several months, many glasses of Malbec, and a few brewskis, I have reached a conclusion for the main reason for Bangkok's decline. Nobody has requested this, nobody's paying for it, but I still feel obligated to foist my views on an unsuspecting public. Or at least an unsuspecting board.

There a book, long out of print but still available, used, on Amazon. I used to have a copy, but you know what happens to lent books. It's called "Thank God for the Atom Bomb & Other Essays. " While the eponymous essay is well worth reading, it's one of the others that got me thinking. It's an essay about the difference between Travel and Tourism.

To oversimplify a bit, and paraphrase a lot, a Traveler goes to a particular place, interacts with the locals, eats local food, lives among the people, spends a fair amount of time seeing things and absorbing the culture. Time isn't such an important factor because he's after the experiences. A Tourist, like as not, is part of a group, has a punch list of things to see and do, an organized itinerary, eats in hotels, stays in higher-end hotels, wouldn't be caught dead mingling with the sweaty hoi polloi, yet loves to say he's a "Traveler. " Time is a critical factor because he has a very important itinerary. Experiences take a back seat to a schedule and checklist.

I'll preface this by stating that I think the Thai economy has had a direct effect on the looks of the girls. And prices were bound to rise somewhat due to the immutable laws of demographics. Fewer available girls will result in higher prices. But I'm talking about the overall change in the P4 P scene.

Anyway, I think the Traveler and Tourist illustration applies to the BKK nightlife and P4 P scene. The fuse of change was lit some decades back, the changes were slow at first, but now they're going full bore.

Years ago, Thailand was a very difficult place to reach, especially for those of us in the Americas. It was an exotic destination, not too developed, not well traveled. A perfect destination for the "Traveler," not so for the "Tourist. ".

Years ago, so I'm told, ST didn't even exist. (It barely existed in the late '90's) You found a lady, she went home with you, she stayed, maybe she made breakfast or cleaned your room. Maybe she stayed for several days. Again, a perfect situation for the "Traveler" and not so much for the "Tourist. ".

I think the VN war lit the fuse, as it were. More people found out about this place and the P4 P really became an in-your-face industry. Rumors flew about this exotic place where you could get back alley BJs from 12 year old girls and other sordid things. Interest increased but it was still a very expensive destination. Airfare was high, flights very lengthy. Still perfect for the Traveler.

Then the airlines were deregulated. Airfares dropped and now everybody could fly. The types of people now making the trip to LOS began to change. The Tourists started coming. Their numbers increased and then, BAM! The Internet happened. Now everybody with a modem could find out all about LOS. Anybody with $500 could get a cattle car to SEA. The market changed quickly and has become the sorry state of affairs we have today.

$200 (all in) short times are a direct result, IMHO, of Tourists. Hey, I'm only here for X days, I have to check this off my list, I have to be in Chiang Mai tomorrow, and, besides, it would be WAY more expensive back home. Long time? Hell, I don't have time for that. Or, another classic example is the group of guys who shows up and spends all day, every day, in a bar. They hang out together and drink all day. Occasionally they split up and go have some boom boom. Later they all get back together for dinner and more booze. All classic Tourist behavior, and a completely foreign concept to the Traveler.

The market adapted quickly. Why go LT with a customer if there are a bunch of guys right behind him looking for a quickie? If this current crop of Tourists will pay $200, why should I accept less from a Traveler?

My point is that as the Tourists take over a place everything becomes time sensitive and by-the-hour. LT went the way of the Dodo. It wasn't cost effective. ST went from 3 hours to however quickly I can get to the hotel, fuck, fix my makeup and get back. Otherwise, it's not cost effective. Hurry, hurry, rush, rush. The time-sensitive Tourists won't wait. And, as a result, all the fun has gone out of it for we Travelers. The sanuk factor is extinct. The world turned.

You can still have a great time in BKK, no question. But it's going to cost you. And it's not going to be the relaxed, fun experience it used to be. Basically, Bangkok has become Tijuana.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1592590]Years ago, so I'm told, ST didn't even exist. (It barely existed in the late '90's) You found a lady, she went home with you, she stayed, maybe she made breakfast or cleaned your room. Maybe she stayed for several days. Again, a perfect situation for the "Traveler" and not so much for the "Tourist. ".

The market adapted quickly. Why go LT with a customer if there are a bunch of guys right behind him looking for a quickie? If this current crop of Tourists will pay $200, why should I accept less from a Traveler?

My point is that as the Tourists take over a place everything becomes time sensitive and by-the-hour. LT went the way of the Dodo. It wasn't cost effective. ST went from 3 hours to however quickly I can get to the hotel, fuck, fix my makeup and get back. Otherwise, it's not cost effective. Hurry, hurry, rush, rush. The time-sensitive Tourists won't wait. And, as a result, all the fun has gone out of it for we Travelers. The sanuk factor is extinct. The world turned.

You can still have a great time in BKK, no question. But it's going to cost you. And it's not going to be the relaxed, fun experience it used to be. Basically, Bangkok has become Tijuana.[/QUOTE]Ah you finally got to the point. You are right. When I first came to Bangkok as a free man, say 23 years ago, I don't recall the possibility of a ST with a Cowboy bargirl being mentioned. You always took LT. The girl got 400 to 500 Baht. I can't remember the BF. The very best girls did not know that they would be able to get 3 STs in a night. I guess if you only wanted ST, you send the girl away after sex. In those days you definitely paid the girl to leave. I recall a Cowboy girl who just did not want to leave. Was hard to get rid of her and she kept wanting to return to my Hotel uninvited, so had to change Hotels. Maybe in those days Patpong girls were already into doing STs, it just had not spread to Cowboy, and not sure if Nana Plaza was already opened or not.

In those days, for ST you would go to the Grace massage, Thermae Soapy, Darling, Chawala, etc. Or to Kangaroo bar in Patpong for an on the premises BJ at the bar or fuck in the back room at lunch time.

I don't really recall what year Sukhumvit bargirls started to offer ST, but it was probably about 18 to 20 years ago at Nana Plaza bars like Lollipop, Pretty Lady, etc. That I first got offered ST (outside of Patpong). I guess Nana carpark girls were always mostly ST girls.

The price of supermarket bill and rent in Bangkok has skyrocketed. I guess we must expect the girl prices to rise with inflation. Can see the point now. The Bangkok "decline" is really just the increase in prices, and a decrease in the number of customers, and the number of bar girls in most bars. Its also that the in-demand girls now realise they have power over the customers. The number of girls, with 3 Farangs sending them money every month has probably increased. A few more honest girls don't do that.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1592590]To oversimplify a bit, and paraphrase a lot, a Traveler goes to a particular place, interacts with the locals, eats local food, lives among the people, spends a fair amount of time seeing things and absorbing the culture. Time isn't such an important factor because he's after the experiences. A Tourist, like as not, is part of a group, has a punch list of things to see and do, an organized itinerary, eats in hotels, stays in higher-end hotels, wouldn't be caught dead mingling with the sweaty hoi polloi, yet loves to say he's a "Traveler. " Time is a critical factor because he has a very important itinerary. Experiences take a back seat to a schedule and checklist.[/QUOTE]Who would have ever throught that HotShaneHot is probably the last of the Travellers on this board?

only been in town a few days. last visit was during the coup and not much is changed.

had a slimmer's lunch at star of light today. at least a year since my last visit. they've upgraded the toilet a bit with some corner cushions where there used to be storage. service in the bar but they are paranoid about 'checking' by authorities, so one has to go to the head for service and then only if you promise to finish quickly. they tried to huddle me to a st hotel nearby, but i wanted nothing doing as i had my plans for a quick lunch. same level of providers as always.

few days ago went so som's haven on soi 14. nice place and pretty clean private rooms all with a sink attached. about the same level of provider as [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s but more convenient location right next to asok bts. oral is standard 700 and was offered fs for 1200. might make this my go-to when i'm in the neighborhood and want something quick.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1592590]
You can still have a great time in BKK, no question. But it's going to cost you. And it's not going to be the relaxed, fun experience it used to be. Basically, Bangkok has become Tijuana.[/QUOTE]I was first time in Bangkok in 1995. Things are different now, I admit. You can still have a lot of fun, but things are more expensive now. After my divorce 1 1/2 year ago I have been in SEA, Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia 4 times. I prefer Cambodia. I think it is like Thailand was before. I always go to Sihanoukville. When you bar fine girl it is always LT. First time I barfined a girl in Sihanoukville I asked the girl "for how long". She looked at my and said "until tomorrow, off course". She stayed with my for a week. BF was 10 dollar / day. The girl 30 dollar / day. 280 dollar /9000 baht for a very beautiful girl, very GFE, for one week. You can not do that in Thailand to day, I think. Maybe you can find FL in Pattaya same price, but then she is not young and beautiful.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1592603] Maybe in those days Patpong girls were already into doing STs, it just had not spread to Cowboy, and not sure if Nana Plaza was already opened or not. [/QUOTE]Nope, even in the mid 90's when I used to mainly drink / bang in Patpong the girls were all LT. If I wanted a quicky I'd go to the Kangaroo bar, otherwise I'd just get a girl from a bar. I don't ever remember even discussing ST or LT way back then.

A mate of mine had an apartment near Patpong, hence that's why we hung out there. Also there used to be more 'normal' types of bars, Irish places for instance, if we didn't fancy having girls hanging off us early in the evening or felt like a it to eat.

I haven't been to Patpong for years, these days I'm too lazy to go too far from Soi Cowboy.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1592590]Yes, I never, ever, paid more than 1,500 LT. I think I once paid 1,500 for ST 3 or 4 years ago at a beer bar in Patpong, but even then she complained that all the other women were getting 3 K for ST. Not this guy.

But I digress. Over several months, many glasses of Malbec, and a few brewskis, I have reached a conclusion for the main reason for Bangkok's decline. Nobody has requested this, nobody's paying for it, but I still feel obligated to foist my views on an unsuspecting public. Or at least an unsuspecting board.

There a book, long out of print but still available, used, on Amazon. I used to have a copy, but you know what happens to lent books. It's called "Thank God for the Atom Bomb & Other Essays. " While the eponymous essay is well worth reading, it's one of the others that got me thinking. It's an essay about the difference between Travel and Tourism.

To oversimplify a bit, and paraphrase a lot, a Traveler goes to a particular place, interacts with the locals, eats local food, lives among the people, spends a fair amount of time seeing things and absorbing the culture. Time isn't such an important factor because he's after the experiences. A Tourist, like as not, is part of a group, has a punch list of things to see and do, an organized itinerary, eats in hotels, stays in higher-end hotels, wouldn't be caught dead mingling with the sweaty hoi polloi, yet loves to say he's a "Traveler. " Time is a critical factor because he has a very important itinerary. Experiences take a back seat to a schedule and checklist.

I'll preface this by stating that I think the Thai economy has had a direct effect on the looks of the girls. And prices were bound to rise somewhat due to the immutable laws of demographics. Fewer available girls will result in higher prices. But I'm talking about the overall change in the P4 P scene.

Anyway, I think the Traveler and Tourist illustration applies to the BKK nightlife and P4 P scene. The fuse of change was lit some decades back, the changes were slow at first, but now they're going full bore.

Years ago, Thailand was a very difficult place to reach, especially for those of us in the Americas. It was an exotic destination, not too developed, not well traveled. A perfect destination for the "Traveler," not so for the "Tourist. ".

Years ago, so I'm told, ST didn't even exist. (It barely existed in the late '90's) You found a lady, she went home with you, she stayed, maybe she made breakfast or cleaned your room. Maybe she stayed for several days. Again, a perfect situation for the "Traveler" and not so much for the "Tourist. ".

I think the VN war lit the fuse, as it were. More people found out about this place and the P4 P really became an in-your-face industry. Rumors flew about this exotic place where you could get back alley BJs from 12 year old girls and other sordid things. Interest increased but it was still a very expensive destination. Airfare was high, flights very lengthy. Still perfect for the Traveler.

Then the airlines were deregulated. Airfares dropped and now everybody could fly. The types of people now making the trip to LOS began to change. The Tourists started coming. Their numbers increased and then, BAM! The Internet happened. Now everybody with a modem could find out all about LOS. Anybody with $500 could get a cattle car to SEA. The market changed quickly and has become the sorry state of affairs we have today.

$200 (all in) short times are a direct result, IMHO, of Tourists. Hey, I'm only here for X days, I have to check this off my list, I have to be in Chiang Mai tomorrow, and, besides, it would be WAY more expensive back home. Long time? Hell, I don't have time for that. Or, another classic example is the group of guys who shows up and spends all day, every day, in a bar. They hang out together and drink all day. Occasionally they split up and go have some boom boom. Later they all get back together for dinner and more booze. All classic Tourist behavior, and a completely foreign concept to the Traveler.

The market adapted quickly. Why go LT with a customer if there are a bunch of guys right behind him looking for a quickie? If this current crop of Tourists will pay $200, why should I accept less from a Traveler?

My point is that as the Tourists take over a place everything becomes time sensitive and by-the-hour. LT went the way of the Dodo. It wasn't cost effective. ST went from 3 hours to however quickly I can get to the hotel, fuck, fix my makeup and get back. Otherwise, it's not cost effective. Hurry, hurry, rush, rush. The time-sensitive Tourists won't wait. And, as a result, all the fun has gone out of it for we Travelers. The sanuk factor is extinct. The world turned.

You can still have a great time in BKK, no question. But it's going to cost you. And it's not going to be the relaxed, fun experience it used to be. Basically, Bangkok has become Tijuana.[/QUOTE]Just very well stated and spot on. Was upcountry last weekend. In the North. People were actually friendly. A far cry from BKK. Reminded me why I chose to live here. No animosity, no nasty looks, and you would never know there was political issues in the country. BKK has borne the brunt of the political crap, price increases, low unemployment, etc. And for all the reasons you stated above, become not such a good place to monger for the resident or traveler. That being said, oilies are still fun. Had one yesterday.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1592590]Years ago, so I'm told, ST didn't even exist. (It barely existed in the late '90's) You found a lady, she went home with you, she stayed, maybe she made breakfast or cleaned your room. Maybe she stayed for several days. Again, a perfect situation for the "Traveler" and not so much for the "Tourist. ".

[/QUOTE]That's just not correct. I've been coming here since 1993 and over that time 99% of my exchanges were for short time. One of the few English phrases girls knew back in those early days was "short time long time? I don't do long time. I've never enjoyed it with a girl that I barely know. Its always short time for me. But what was easy back then was that long time was always offered (though just as now guys complained about girls doing runners at 6 am). Now lots of girls do not even offer it and the gogos in particular push the girls to do st and in the nearby st rooms (and by st I mean st as I see most girls back within 30 minutes). The whole business has become much more hard core, mercenary, commoditized and impersonal. Not to say that it's not fun but it is totally transactional now.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1592685]The whole business has become much more hard core, mercenary, commoditized and impersonal. Not to say that it's not fun but it is totally transactional now.[/QUOTE]Yep. Because the gals are making so much money now for far less work. Most dudes just seem to expect less. Punters would not have stood for it 15 years ago.

That beeing said I still have a blast in the BKK's FL pick up clubs for the same price as in 07/08 (3 K LT and allways real LT, hell sometimes even to long LT) so I am not at all affected by this BF and bar downtalking stuffs. Why go there if it is so bad? Why not change MO? Just asking.

Well, well reading about the BM's defintion of a traveler I would choose tourist every day. Just seems more fun. I can only box myself in as a punter travelling extensively troughout SEA and maby I would pop into BKK in average between 20/30 times a year since 07/08. I don't care from which category I will be put into. Based from my many many visits I get or have gotten a pretty good idea, through own eyes and through communicating whith birds, what is going on. What I have seen the latter years is a blooming of girl representation in the FL nightclubs. Some girls I talk to and have fun with (not allways bring back fucking) admits they are former BG but they wants to be their own boss and take a hit to the mentioned venues. Not anymore beeing interested in feeling obliged to go with unattractive punters (preassure from Mama, boss). Can't realy blame them from my own observation. Even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder these girl dripping down from the bar environment are absolute stunners and could easily get barfined probably quite often. Still they choose the FL scene. Maby girls becomes more aware of that they should be queens of their own domain and not let others decide on how they should share it around, I don't know just droddeling?? Atleast it seems to benefit the FL market and that is good for us enjoying such.

A couple of weeks ago I was with a dear old girly friend. We met back at my place, shipped a few drinks and taxied to Climax. We arrived around midnight, normaly a bit early for Climax. This was a Tuesday night. What surprised me was how many girls allready on site. My friend knows a hell of a lot of people from beeing involved under the Hillary umbrella for some years (not now as she changed into the hotel biz). While drinking I was stunned from all the beauty around and my girl pointed out many of them beeing former BG-, MP-, GoGo- and Escortgirls but they simply did not find their work as free and rewarding as beeing unattached from bossy bosses. Someof them she explained also got som daytime normal jobs but habit of a relatively good cashflow are hard to change so still hooking a tad on the side. But from the greater part, as in line with my former believes, Climax are filled with part time FL's or in another words, normal girls with normal jobs just want some cash if lucky to meet a decent punter. Not beeing desperate in any way as they also out to party and have fun. Over the years this I happen to believe have been my main source of girls (I leave ofcourse out my regular girls in this debate).

I think this aspect is also important to take into considiration in this ongoing (and neverending) complaining of why the Bar / go go girls shows attitude and skyrocketing prices (as some of you call it) and bad quality of the girls. Someones loss is anotherones gains.