Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2937333]I don't mean to be rude, but until or unless you say something new and back it up with verifiable facts, I have to cut our little interactions. Life's too short to waste even 10 minute a day trying to reason with a believer.[/QUOTE]

Well. You were rude. Not only are you cutting our interactions, but you used the "F" word in some of your posts.

Seriously, come on Xpartan. I agree with you about a valid point you made that I wasn't aware of, and you selectively quote me to make it sound like I don't agree. "I didn't know that. If true, [b]and I believe '1' is (true),[/b]"

I am a believer. A believer in reality. You conveniently ignore the verifiable facts I throw out. For example, the analysis in the Newsweek article, written by a very pro-Ukranian, anti-Russian journalist, the National Securities Archive/George Washington University site, and the writings of our CIA director who happens to be a Russia expert.

You probably realize this isn't as clear cut as you thought it was so you're looking for a way to bow out, none too gracefully. You should just admit it. "Tiny, you may be right, all sides in this dispute need to talk and work this out so the killing will come to an end." That's not hard to do.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2937337]Why does Professor Blood Red always demand we write down his lunacies?[/QUOTE]

Well. It depends on how you define "win" and "victory." In my book everyone's going to be a loser in this war. However, if you ignore all the dead Russians and Ukrainians and the damage to the Ukrainian economy and peoples' quality of life, then Blood Red may very well be right.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2937316]One more joke.

I do not remember, F or the to participate in Americas "Coalition of the Willing". Although being invited.

Then the USA was behind the coup in Ukraine in 2014 . < Obviously, you consider it a fact, that the CIA payed for the (tens of) thousands of Ukrainians on the Maidan.[/QUOTE]Don't you know about the history of the USA / CIA regarding regime change in countries? Have you not seen the videos of Victoria Newland in Kiev in 2014?

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2937316]

And Putin acted. He didn't want NATO in Crimea and control the black sea, hence he seized Crimea < That was the beginning of his official aggression, correct.

And it had always been historically Russian. < To be specific, Crimea was Russian for about 250 years, since the first Russian annexion. And the forced exodus of the Tartars under Stalin.

Of course, you also say the USA is historically anglo American.[/QUOTE]Most of the population in Crimea are ethnic Russians. Why did Putin wait until 2014 to take Crimea? Because he saw the writing on the wall with the regime change in 2014 and what NATO was doing. Had he not acted, NATO would be in control of Crimea and the black sea. I for one am very glad that Putin pre empted it. NATO is pure evil. Ukraine will realize this very soon, if they haven't already. Like I said, Ukraine will NEVER EVER join NATO. So why was the neutrality that Putin demanded so bad? These are hard questions that Ukrainians will ask their horrible leadership one day.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2937374]
Well. It depends on how you define "win" and "victory." In my book everyone's going to be a loser in this war. However, if you ignore all the dead Russians and Ukrainians and the damage to the Ukrainian economy and peoples' quality of life, then Blood Red may very well be right.[/QUOTE]I think the definition of victory from a Russian perspective is very clear:

1. Russia keeping the 4 new territories + Crimea.

2. Ukraine adopting neutrality and never joining NATO.

Now, the longer this goes on, you can add Odessa and Kharkov to that list and possibly 2 more Oblasts. That's why Ukraine needs to sue for peace now as the peace conditions will only get tougher. Compare the scenario now to what was offered in Istanbul in 2022 March.

What will the Pro Ukrainians here consider victory once Russia wins? I am going to tell all here right now what the off ramp for NATO and all the neo cons and the delusional pro Ukrainian robots here will be:

1. Putin did not take Kiev in 3 days, so Ukraine won. LOL.

2. Ukraine still exists as a country and hence Putin didn't achieve his goal of wiping Ukraine off the map (he never wanted to do that, fools). LOL.

And yes, you may all write this down. We will see a few years from now who was right and who was wrong. If what I have said turns out to be wrong I will be the first one to admit it.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2749178]This is the reason why Russia destroyed the pipeline. Gazprom is in breach of their contracts for shutting down gas supply and can be sued because of it. The destroyed pipelines are supposed to be "force majeure" which would give them en excuse not to deliver.

They already played their leverage card by stopping the deliveries.

Try and live in reality, and not in clown world for a change.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VinDici;2789099]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word.

If suddenly the pipeline fails, then the result is same in that gas is not supplied, but RF is not in breach of contract.

This is why it is RF that did the bombing, so they could apply pressure on Europe without having to be in formal breach of contract.

As with most things, the simplest explanation is most often the truth.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2789192]That's right, but a small correction. It's not about their "reliability". Russia stopped worrying about their reputation a long time ago.

One irony of the attack is that Russias Gazprom potentially stands to benefit: it will no longer need to invent excuses not to supply Europe via Nord Stream 1. Now it can claim a force majeure, which will dramatically reduce the risk of compensation claims for non-delivered volumes. This logic, however, does not explain the damage caused to Nord Stream 2. On the other hand, the Nord Stream consortium companies and eventually Gazprom might even hope to collect some insurance for the damaged pipelines. Given that they already looked set to become a stranded asset, that would be far from the worst outcome for the giant company.

As for Nord Stream 2, it was useless anyway. It was never operational and probably never will be. There were no downsides for the Russians to blow it up.

[URL]https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88062[/URL][/QUOTE]It turns out VinDici and Xpartan were wrong about the Nord Stream Pipeline sabotage. Ukraine did it. The effort was led by Valeriy Zaluzhniy, commander in chief of Ukraine's Armed Forces, reportedly against the wishes of Zelensky and the USA. The Germans are pissed. The Wall Street Journal broke the story in a lengthy investigative piece published today.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c?mod=hp_lead_pos7[/URL]

The idea that Russia would have blown up the pipeline always sounded ridiculous to me. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2937316]
And Putin acted. He didn't want NATO in Crimea and control the black sea, hence he seized Crimea < That was the beginning of his official aggression, correct.[/QUOTE]That might've been a tetriary reason for Putin's aggression. Unlike his brainwashed electorate, Putin isn't scared of Nato. Nor did he really believe Nato would go into the Black Sea and chase the Russia's fleet out. Those're just scary stories for the masses.

The main reason he took Crimea (and started the war in Donbas at the same time) was to punish Ukraine for drifting away from Russia's "sphere of influence". He could tolerate Ukraine being a Russia's client like Belarus, but not as a truly independent country.

The second reason was his electorate that mostly rejoiced with the Crimea grab. They'd dreamed about it for years. The mythical threat from Nato might've been a distant third.

1. The war has officially come to Russia for the first time in 80 years. Over 1,000 square kilometers and 80 settlements in Kursk Region have been liberated by Ukraine, and the night is still young.

2. Nato has drastically enlarged with Sweden and Finland having added 830 new border miles with Russia thanks to one man's military genius.

3. Crimea is a string of empty beaches in the peak of the tourist season.

4. The Black Sea Fleet is reduced by over 30%. It's hiding in Novorossiysk and the Sea of Azov (and Ukraine hits them there too).

So it's safe to say the SMO goes steadily according to the plans of the best military strategist of all times: Vladimir Putin.

On a serious note, Ukraine was the beginning of Putin's downfall and it will be the end.

And oh yeah: Write that down, LOL!

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2937505]It turns out VinDici and Xpartan were wrong about the Nord Stream Pipeline sabotage. Ukraine did it. The effort was led by Valeriy Zaluzhniy, commander in chief of Ukraine's Armed Forces, reportedly against the wishes of Zelensky and the USA. The Germans are pissed. The Wall Street Journal broke the story in a lengthy investigative piece published today.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c?mod=hp_lead_pos7[/URL][/QUOTE]I promised to reply when you come up with something new and not-laughable. Your link presents a persuasive argument. This qualifies.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2937505]The idea that Russia would have blown up the pipeline always sounded ridiculous to me. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.[/QUOTE]And that one doesn't.

Amazing how little you know about the subject of your adoration. Launching a major war in Europe for no reason, which is PREDICTABLY going to destroy your own stability, economy, and reputation for tens of years if not centuries ahead, is a DEFENITION of cutting off your nose to spite your face. And this is what Russians have always done in the course of their history -- consistently and without fail!

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2937403]I think the definition of victory from a Russian perspective is very clear:

1. Russia keeping the 4 new territories + Crimea.

2. Ukraine adopting neutrality and never joining NATO.

Now, the longer this goes on, you can add Odessa and Kharkov to that list and possibly 2 more Oblasts. That's why Ukraine needs to sue for peace now as the peace conditions will only get tougher. Compare the scenario now to what was offered in Istanbul in 2022 March.

What will the Pro Ukrainians here consider victory once Russia wins? I am going to tell all here right now what the off ramp for NATO and all the neo cons and the delusional pro Ukrainian robots here will be:

1. Putin did not take Kiev in 3 days, so Ukraine won. LOL.

2. Ukraine still exists as a country and hence Putin didn't achieve his goal of wiping Ukraine off the map (he never wanted to do that, fools). LOL.

And yes, you may all write this down. We will see a few years from now who was right and who was wrong. If what I have said turns out to be wrong I will be the first one to admit it.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Yeo, I have been saying that for over a year if Ukraine is not careful they will end up losing Odessa. What a mess, they should have been negotiating from day one. Now they will probably end up with next to nothing.

Ukraine joining NATO will never happen, Putin would Nuke them before letting that happen. Hopefully NATO will collapse after this disaster or if Trump becomes President, we pull out of NATO or make major changes. NATO is a joke, hopefully we will learn from this disaster, but I have my doubts.

Ukraine army is collapsing every where, but where they made slight gains into Russia, but at what cost. I think Ukraine will soon regret this stunt, yes, they made some PR gains, but at what cost? These were Ukraine best, they will never be able to keep them supplied. We will soon see, but Russia always has a plan and Ukraine / NATO is out of control. I do think that Russia was definitely caught off guard, but now they might be setting a trap for Ukraine, like they have done in the past.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2937337]Why does Professor Blood Red always demand we write down his lunacies?[/QUOTE]Xman you still have not answered my simple questions have you been to either Russia or Ukraine. You are one crazy and delusional person.

Russia's currently chairing the UN Security Council. And in their unfathomable wisdom they decided to use it to complain about Ukraine's incursion into Kursk Region. Because who's a victim here if not Russia, right?

So they convened an Arria-formula meeting, which is an informal meeting that allows Security Council members to air their grievances. Not that anyone gives a shit (this is UN after all). But it's probably therapeutic.

Well, not this time.

After presenting their "case" against evil Ukrainians, the Russians learned a lot of interesting tidbits from their colleagues.

[B]US[/B]: We are here because the RF has decided to try and shift blame onto Ukraine -- the victim of Moscow's brutal war and deflect attention away from the rampant devastation of Ukraine. The Kremlin must stop the war and stop using the Security Council to hide the truth about Moscow's own actions.

[B]Slovenia[/B]: We strongly reject any kind of political manipulation. Let me be clear: we will not recognize the aggressor as the victim. We denounce double standards. It is odd listening to accusations of IHL violations while the accuser is bombing critical energy infrastructure and children's hospitals.

[B]Japan[/B]: The aggressor must leave Ukraine. If the aggression stops, meetings like this won't be needed. Today's meeting is yet another example of Russian hypocrisy and the waste of UN resources. It is also another attempt by Russia to divert attention from what it is doing in Ukraine.

[B]Switzerland[/B]: Once again Russia uses an ARA formula to promote its biased vision of reality. Russia attempts to justify their military aggression against Ukraine will not convince anyone.

[B]France[/B]: France is today participating in this exercise of propaganda that Russia is deploying, with one goal in mind: to ensure that Russia's lies do not remain unanswered. Playing the same record of misinformation over and over again will not allow Russia to amend the facts or distort the reality of its horrible aggression against Ukraine. The maneuvers used by Russia to conceal these crimes come as no surprise to anyone. Once again, Moscow is adding to the indignity of killing civilians and children the indignity of lies and negationism.

[B]Korea[/B]: In February 2022, the Russian Federation invaded Ukraine in violation of the UN Charter and international law. We regret that Russia has called today's meeting an attempt to justify its illegal Invasion against Ukraine. Any accounts detailed today simply do not change the fact that Russia invaded its neighboring country in violation of its sovereignty, political independence, and territorial integrity.

[B]UK[/B]:

[QUOTE]Russia started this war. Russia has chosen to perpetuate this war. It was Russia's imperialist ambitions, which drove it to illegally annex Crimea in 2014 and cause an outbreak of conflict in the Donbas. And it was Russia who launched a full-scale Invasion into Ukraine.

Russia says it wants to discuss violations of international humanitarian law and other crimes. The United Kingdom welcomes such a discussion. As Russia reminds us all parties to a conflict are required to distinguish between military objectives and civilian objects. Yet Russia's destruction of energy infrastructures has wiped out 9 GW of Ukraine's power generation since March. And in July alone, 80 medical and educational facilities were damaged or destroyed by Russian attacks.

Since February 2022, OHCHR has recorded almost 200 cases of summary executions of Ukrainian civilians and prisoners of war and 263 cases of sexual violence, all perpetrated by members of Russian law enforcement and the armed forces. The independent International Commission of Inquiry established by the Human Rights Council has described Russia's use of torture against Ukrainian civilians and prisoners of war as widespread and systematic. 95 percent of prisoners of war report torture.

So let us be clear. This is Putin's war and the means by which he and his Armed Forces pursue it, which is the crime here. [/QUOTE]To tell you the truth, some UN members supported Russia, namely Syria and Belarus. A few others produced a lot of beautiful words without saying anything (Hello, China). So it's not like Russia was condemned by everyone -- only by those who matter.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2937582] is a DEFENITION[/QUOTE]I know, I should've checked, at least the word I capitalized. Apologies!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2937622]Xman you still have not answered my simple questions have you been to either Russia or Ukraine. You are one crazy and delusional person.[/QUOTE]Delusional and dumb.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2937620]Yeo, I have been saying that for over a year if Ukraine is not careful they will end up losing Odessa. What a mess, they should have been negotiating from day one. Now they will probably end up with next to nothing.

Ukraine joining NATO will never happen, Putin would Nuke them before letting that happen. Hopefully NATO will collapse after this disaster or if Trump becomes President, we pull out of NATO or make major changes. NATO is a joke, hopefully we will learn from this disaster, but I have my doubts.

Ukraine army is collapsing every where, but where they made slight gains into Russia, but at what cost. I think Ukraine will soon regret this stunt, yes, they made some PR gains, but at what cost? These were Ukraine best, they will never be able to keep them supplied. We will soon see, but Russia always has a plan and Ukraine / NATO is out of control. I do think that Russia was definitely caught off guard, but now they might be setting a trap for Ukraine, like they have done in the past.[/QUOTE]It is nothing but a PR stunt, the Kursk incursion.

With regards to NATO, even a lot of the NATO members do not want Ukraine to join. And Russia will make sure Ukraine turns into a rump state that can never join NATO.

So once again, I ask the Pro Ukrainians here, why was neutrality so bad?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2937505]It turns out VinDici and Xpartan were wrong about the Nord Stream Pipeline sabotage. Ukraine did it. The effort was led by Valeriy Zaluzhniy, commander in chief of Ukraine's Armed Forces, reportedly against the wishes of Zelensky and the USA. The Germans are pissed. The Wall Street Journal broke the story in a lengthy investigative piece published today.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-real-story-da24839c?mod=hp_lead_pos7[/URL]

The idea that Russia would have blown up the pipeline always sounded ridiculous to me. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.[/QUOTE]Tiny, you can just the gist of the story with these quotes:

It involved a small rented yacht with a six-member crew, including trained civilian divers. One was a woman, whose presence helped create the illusion they were a group of friends on a pleasure cruise.

But later, when the CIA learned of it and asked the Ukrainian president to pull the plug, he ordered a halt, those people said.

Zelensky's commander in chief, Valeriy Zaluzhniy, who was leading the effort, nonetheless forged ahead.

Armed only with diving equipment, satellite navigation, a portable sonar and open-source maps of the seabed charting the position of the pipelines, the crew set out.

Spending 20 minutes at that depth requires around three hours of decompression, and the person must then refrain from diving for at least 24 hours or risk serious injury.

Witnesses on other yachts moored in Sandhamn noted that the Andromeda was the only boat with a small Ukrainian flag hoisted on its mast.

End of quotes.

Now you have the Seymour Hersh version:

At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, "If Russia invades. . . There will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it. ".

According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline "no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it. ".

The waters of the Baltic Sea were heavily patrolled by the Russian navy, and there were no oil rigs that could be used as cover for a diving operation. Would the divers have to go to Estonia, right across the border from Russia's natural gas loading docks, to train for the mission? "It would be a goat fuck," the Agency was told.

Norway was the perfect place to base the mission.

The Norwegian navy was quick to find the right spot, in the shallow waters of the Baltic sea a few miles off Denmark's Bornholm Island. The pipelines ran more than a mile apart along a seafloor that was only 260 feet deep.

The Russian navy was known to possess surveillance technology capable of spotting, and triggering, underwater mines. The American explosive devices needed to be camouflaged in a way that would make them appear to the Russian system as part of the natural backgroundsomething that required adapting to the specific salinity of the water. The Norwegians had a fix.

The Americans provided one vital element: they convinced the Sixth Fleet planners to add a research and development exercise to the program. The exercise, as made public by the Navy, involved the Sixth Fleet in collaboration with the Navy's "research and warfare centers. " The at-sea event would be held off the coast of Bornholm Island and involve NATO teams of divers planting mines, with competing teams using the latest underwater technology to find and destroy them.

The C4 attached to the pipelines would be triggered by a sonar buoy dropped by a plane on short notice, but the procedure involved the most advanced signal processing technology. To avoid this, the sonar buoy, once in place, would emit a sequence of unique low frequency tonal soundsmuch like those emitted by a flute or a pianothat would be recognized by the timing device and, after a pre-set hours of delay, trigger the explosives.

On September 26,2022, a Norwegian Navy P8 surveillance plane made a seemingly routine flight and dropped a sonar buoy.

End of link page.

Here is the actual flight path of the plane: [URL]https://www.bitchute.com/video/v4yAPCqU22SG[/URL].

And then you have the British PM sending SOS Anthony Blinken a text on an unsecured line reading, "It's done. " [URL]https://www.bitchute.com/video/E22kNdO89rC0[/URL].

So you can see Tiny the WSJ article ranks up there with the lone gun man bit. Notice how the CIA, Zelensky, and Biden all tried so hard to prevent the blowing up of this pipeline and were made out to be the good guys? And then there was this idiocy proposed that the Russians had blown up their own pipeline. It flies in the face of the obvious question as to who benefits.

So you have one story where those doing the dive at 260 feet where you have 20 minutes to find and attaches bombs was done by a bunch of drunken Ukrainians and another saying it was Navy seals. To me, sure that Ukrainian team diving to 260 feet was possible. But finding the pipeline? You have Ukrainians using maps and sonar on a 30 foot yacht versus the Norwegian navy. Attaching explosives perfectly to the exact right spot and then having it detonate remotely sounds really hard. And the Ukrainians avoided all the Russian and European detection systems? All while diving from a boat with a Ukrainian flag on it?

The odds of Seymour Hersh's story being wrong and the WSJ one being correct I would put at 1000:1. Given those odds, the real question to me is why publish this now, and who is the target audience?

Doubling down against a house in a casino game to recoup losses is a proven strategy to get broke.

The June offer of a peace negotiations has been withdrawn.

Ukraine is a right arm of an ample body that fell and began to rot.

All the mechanisms, agencies and people behind the 2014 coup and the pathway to that disaster are known.

Now we have here old and impotent but not wise who try to justify it.