Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2713109]Me? I am getting my affairs in order for whoever might survive what is coming. One thing is sure: Lithuania is burned toast.[/QUOTE]Hopefully karma will visit all your hateful bile back upon your own head. Can't happen soon enough.

Then, when the nuke turns you into troll-dust, you can share the Circle of Hell that's already been prepared for Little Vlad.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2713143]Because, as I've demonstrated numerous times, you hide behind a cowardly pretense at even-handedness, yet your every comment or proposed solution is pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.

You should at least have the balls to admit the truth. And, for any who are new to this thread, I invite them to view your posting history as it provides ample evidence about your bias.[/QUOTE]I will say it again, I can careless who wins. Find a solution, but, yes. One country actually was functioning and contributing. That is Russia, not Ukraine, Take away Putin and it is a great place. Ukraine was a mess, filled with corruption. You guys refuse to recognize, just how corrupt Ukraine is and was. Ask the millions that fled over the last 10-15 years, because of the corruption. The reason they left is because they had almost zero chance for a normal life or even better life in Ukraine, they had no future, because of the greed and a terrible government. Ask yourself why everyone has been leaving the county, and this has been going on for over 10 years and has nothing to do with the war, but you ignore the obvious.

I can careless what you think. This war is ruining economies and is going to cause major collateral damage.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]I will say it again, I can careless who wins. Find a solution, but, yes. One country actually was functioning and contributing. That is Russia, not Ukraine, Take away Putin and it is a great place. Ukraine was a mess, filled with corruption. You guys refuse to recognize, just how corrupt Ukraine is and was. Ask the millions that fled over the last 10-15 years, because of the corruption. The reason they left is because they had almost zero chance for a normal life or even better life in Ukraine, they had no future, because of the greed and a terrible government. Ask yourself why everyone has been leaving the county, and this has been going on for over 10 years and has nothing to do with the war, but you ignore the obvious.

I can careless what you think. This war is ruining economies and is going to cause major collateral damage.[/QUOTE]Why don't you ask yourself why Ukrainians are willing to die in order to defend their freedom?

Ruskies forced into default. Don't tell me the sanctions aren't having any impact:

[URL]https://www.axios.com/2022/06/27/russia-first-foreign-debt-default-since-1918-sanctions[/URL]

[QUOTE=MamaGuevos;2712808]I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]There was a long history of Semitism in Ukraine. One thing begats the next thing. You can't put the cart before the horse.

Looking for different views? Try the rooshforums.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2713381]Ruskies forced into default. Don't tell me the sanctions aren't having any impact:

[URL]https://www.axios.com/2022/06/27/russia-first-foreign-debt-default-since-1918-sanctions[/URL][/QUOTE]This default doesn't really portend anything. The Russians have been cut-off from their foreign currency reserves. It seemed like a foregone conclusion.

[QUOTE=Ioneto;2713339]Why don't you ask yourself why Ukrainians are willing to die in order to defend their freedom?[/QUOTE]Correct, were was this passion 10 years ago. Instead of leaving they should have stayed and fixed the corruption. If they would have done this they probably would, not be in this mess.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2713489]This default doesn't really portend anything. The Russians have been cut-off from their foreign currency reserves. It seemed like a foregone conclusion.[/QUOTE]It's not what it portends. It's what the impact of the sanctions portended, and continues to do so. And, there's more to come. Anyway you look at it, it's not good for Russia and its relations with other countries. We're just getting started. And if they decide to cut off the oil and gas? It will ultimately hurt them far more than it will the west. They lost the cold war last time, and they'll lose another one again. And if it gets hotter (clash with NATO)? They'll lose that too! Putin has bitten off far more than he can chew in a grave miscalculation.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713492]Correct, were was this passion 10 years ago. Instead of leaving they should have stayed and fixed the corruption. If they would have done this they probably would, not be in this mess.[/QUOTE]10 years ago systematic corruption was all they ever knew. They were Russian aligned. They mostly got their information from Russian sources. They had not yet tasted true freedom or democracy. There were no real opportunities available.

Years ago (5?, 8? 10?), when some Ukrainian prostitute fucked you instead of you fucking her (him?), things were very different in Ukraine. Yes, there is still fairly high emigration now but nothing like you suggest (at least before February, 2022). But corruption has been on a very steady decline--maybe the sharpest corruption decline in the world. It is still too high, for sure. But they were going in the right direction.

You hate Ukraine because Ukraine fucked you. Not for any realities of what has been true there for the last 5 years. As Jmsuttr has written many times, your start out from a clearly anti-Ukrainian stance. Your hatred for Ukraine could not be more clear from your years of posting.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2707675]Funny, I have forgotten more about Ukraine then you will ever know. First, you never talk about the corruption and how the government was stealing from everyone, including there own poor people. Secondly, you never talk about how everyone has been fleeing from the country for well over 10 years. You never bring of this up, you just conveniently forgot about it.[/QUOTE]I can neither confirm nor deny whether you have truly "forgotten more about Ukraine than I will ever know. " But everything you have forgotten is very old and does not reflect the realities of what has been going on there for years. You don't know. You have done nothing but spew hatred toward Ukraine for years. You have no recent experience. You have no recent knowledge.

The two years I lived in Ukraine just before the war tells me a very different story. I might be a little surprised by the successes of the Ukrainian military. But I am not at all surprised by their passionate and dedicated fight. I am not at all surprised by the fight in the people. This is the reality I have seen for years while your have been puking hatred.

Your favorite country is every bit as corrupt, has just as much emigration, and was far more violent internally, but you never seem to say anything there. While I report about my experiences in Ukraine, you report only good things in Mexico. I guess some prostitute hasn't yet fucked you so hard in Mexico. But I will not be surprised when it happens. And when it does, I suspect you will be spewing just as much hatred there.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2713550]10 years ago systematic corruption was all they ever knew. They were Russian aligned. They mostly got their information from Russian sources. They had not yet tasted true freedom or democracy. There were no real opportunities available.

Years ago (5?, 8? 10?), when some Ukrainian prostitute fucked you instead of you fucking her (him?), things were very different in Ukraine. Yes, there is still fairly high emigration now but nothing like you suggest (at least before February, 2022). But corruption has been on a very steady decline--maybe the sharpest corruption decline in the world. It is still too high, for sure. But they were going in the right direction.

You hate Ukraine because Ukraine fucked you. Not for any realities of what has been true there for the last 5 years. As Jmsuttr has written many times, your start out from a clearly anti-Ukrainian stance. Your hatred for Ukraine could not be more clear from your years of posting.

I can neither confirm nor deny whether you have truly "forgotten more about Ukraine than I will ever know. " But everything you have forgotten is very old and does not reflect the realities of what has been going on there for years. You don't know. You have done nothing but spew hatred toward Ukraine for years. You have no recent experience. You have no recent knowledge.

The two years I lived in Ukraine just before the war tells me a very different story. I might be a little surprised by the successes of the Ukrainian military. But I am not at all surprised by their passionate and dedicated fight. I am not at all surprised by the fight in the people. This is the reality I have seen for years while your have been puking hatred.

Your favorite country is every bit as corrupt, has just as much emigration, and was far more violent internally, but you never seem to say anything there. While I report about my experiences in Ukraine, you report only good things in Mexico. I guess some prostitute hasn't yet fucked you so hard in Mexico. But I will not be surprised when it happens. And when it does, I suspect you will be spewing just as much hatred there.[/QUOTE]Hanging out in war zone, picking up chicks makes you one of the all time biggest losers. Wait I think you also hang out in Colombia.

I want the war to end, unlike you guys, before it destroy economies. Yes, Russia was actually functioning prior to Covid and Ukraine was a shit show, how you do not know this blows my mind.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713587]Hanging out in war zone, picking up chicks makes you one of the all time biggest losers. Wait I think you also hang out in Colombia.

I want the war to end, unlike you guys, before it destroy economies. Yes, Russia was actually functioning prior to Covid and Ukraine was a shit show, how you do not know this blows my mind.[/QUOTE]I departed Ukraine just before the war started. Meeting girls was always a side benefit for me in Ukraine. I care about the country. I have spent more than my fare share of time in war zones serving my country. You only care about your loser self.

Russia was "functioning" as despotic kleptocracy. Which suited you just fine because all you care about is yourself. Ukraine was making rapid advancements toward democracy and rule of law.

I want the war to end with Russia withdrawing in defeat, incapable of re-emerging as an aggressive state, and paying massive reparations. The US and European economies will not collapse. Maybe you will not have money to pay your fat prostitutes, but the West will come out stronger, not weaker, with a Ukrainian victory. A Russian victory would mean a significantly weaker Western civilization.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2713651]I departed Ukraine just before the war started. I never said anything different.

Russia was "functioning" as despotic kleptocracy. Which suited you just fine because all you care about is yourself. Ukraine was making rapid advancements toward democracy and rule of law.

I want the war to end with Russia withdrawing in defeat, incapable of re-emerging as an aggressive state, and paying massive reparations. The US and European economies will not collapse. Maybe you will not have money to pay your fat prostitutes, but the West will come out stronger, not weaker, with a Ukrainian victory. A Russian victory would mean a significantly weaker Western civilization.[/QUOTE]I have bad news for you, Ukraine is now losing and it is only going to get worse. They need a solution or a compromise quickly. The longer this goes on the worse it will get for Ukraine and the world's economy. Ukraine will end up with almost nothing, but that is what they do best lose. Bidden will be powerless shortly, so they better figure something out.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2713550]Your favorite country is every bit as corrupt, has just as much emigration, and was far more violent internally, but you never seem to say anything there. While I report about my experiences in Ukraine, you report only good things in Mexico. I guess some prostitute hasn't yet fucked you so hard in Mexico. But I will not be surprised when it happens. And when it does, I suspect you will be spewing just as much hatred there.[/QUOTE]Drama Free likely has never set foot in Ukraine or Mexico. I mean seriously there's a reason why there's so little discussion about the smog infested Mexico City with their unshaven, hygienically challenged hookers. He claims to have been to one of the most popular destinations Medellin, Colombia and hated it, but nothing he described about the place was accurate or gave any indication that he'd been there. He disses Ukraine while ignoring Russian terrorism and their agency in starting the war. He also ignores the progress Ukraine has made toward democracy and with anti-corruption since breaking from Russia. He has no arguments, presents no evidence other than to repeat the same failed theses over and over.

Likely he's spent little time out of his mother's basement, isn't a monger, and operates here under a number of different user names. He reminds me of this twerp the Marquis de Sade who claims he has been to many countries. We asked for proof and he was caught posting 2012 vacation pics ripped from an American girls blog. ROFL In fact I'm surprised he hasn't found his way to this thread. About everyone else has, though he likely is here under a different name.

While I'm posting here's another for the Vlad sympathizer Elvis. He whines that his man Vlad is being "demonized" but he does a fine job of that all by himself. In fact terrorism / war crimes are straight from the Russo playbook. It's the way of the coward and how they wage war.

[URL]https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/28/ukraine-war-putin-will-be-held-responsible-for-shopping-centre-war-crime-say-g7-leaders[/URL]

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2713651]I want the war to end with Russia withdrawing in defeat, incapable of re-emerging as an aggressive state, and paying massive reparations. The US and European economies will not collapse. Maybe you will not have money to pay your fat prostitutes, but the West will come out stronger, not weaker, with a Ukrainian victory. A Russian victory would mean a significantly weaker Western civilization.[/QUOTE]Russia cannot lose, in both senses of the word cannot: they cannot lose because they can escalate to ensure victory, and they cannot afford to lose because it would have serious geopolitical repercussions. By escalate, I mean tactical nukes. If you really care about Ukraine, you should be hoping to wake up and read that 100 K of Ukraine's finest and most experienced troops were suddenly slaughtered and thus Ukraine has no choice but to negotiate for peace. 100 K young men can be easily replaced in 18 years. Tactical nuclear war could destroy Ukraine permanently. Do not hope for Ukrainian victory, because it will be short-lived.

Note that US military doctrine has always proposed tactical nukes to stop NATO from being overrun. That's a moot point nowadays, because NATO can easily defend itself with conventional weapons, but the doctrine is still there. Tactical nukes are not "beyond the pale of civilized war", in other words. Neutron tactical nukes were specifically developed by the USA in the 1970's (if I recall correctly) to kill Warsaw pact troops flooding into West Germany without destroying too much West German infrastructure.

Western civilization will indeed be weakened after the inevitable Russian victory, though Russia will be weakened much more. This war, like the botched Iraq and Afghanistan wars previously, is part of the process of USA decline from elevated position circa 1990-2010 of undisputed worldwide military supremacy to more sustainable position of powerful but not all-powerful. Next step in this decline process will be rebellion by the western Europeans, as it sinks in how badly they are being affected economically by USA policy.

BTW my Ukrainian girlfriend here in Chisinau reads the news avidly everyday and volunteers comments to the effect that the Ukrainian government is filled with fanatics. She is from a village in Cherkasy oblast, as central Ukrainian ethnically as they come. I suspect there are many other Ukrainians like her, a silent minority which will eventually be a majority who are having doubts about this avoidable war (carry through with Minsk agreement), but are unable to even formulate much less express their doubts because of all the propaganda coming from Kyiv, to speak nothing of persecution of outspoken doubters. And no, I don't put ideas in her head. On the contrary, I try to avoid commenting around her, because the subject depresses me. Plus, as USA citizen, I'm ashamed of what the USA has cynically done to Ukraine.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2713806]Next step in this decline process will be rebellion by the western Europeans, as it sinks in how badly they are being affected economically by USA policy.[/QUOTE]Ain't going to happen. The Anglo American influence is too big. That is why Western Europe will have to hunt them down. And BRI totally marginalize them.

Tiny Estonia can expect a 50% drop as it is so dependent on Belarus and Russia. All to keep the incontinent Biden in the White House and Hunter Biolabs in clover.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2713806]Russia cannot lose, in both senses of the word cannot: they cannot lose because they can escalate to ensure victory, and they cannot afford to lose because it would have serious geopolitical repercussions. By escalate, I mean tactical nukes.[/QUOTE]Russia has already lost by means of their isolation, economic devastation and pariah status on the world stage. At this point they can only worsen this position which will last generations. They also will not resort to nukes, tactical or otherwise as that means losing the few half-baked friends they have left.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2713806]Western civilization will indeed be weakened after the inevitable Russian victory, though Russia will be weakened much more. This war, like the botched Iraq and Afghanistan wars previously, is part of the process of USA decline from elevated position circa 1990-2010 of undisputed worldwide military supremacy to more sustainable position of powerful but not all-powerful. Next step in this decline process will be rebellion by the western Europeans, as it sinks in how badly they are being affected economically by USA policy.[/QUOTE]This is more nonsense. One, the wars on terror needed to be fought. You'll notice we don't hear much out of Isis anymore, and these wars will continue. As to the US weakening, you can only wish. Russia's debacle / suicide has only served to strengthen the West. NATO has never been stronger with more worthy participants eager to participate. Yes the US is the leader of the free world and this shows no signs of weakening.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2713806]BTW my Ukrainian girlfriend here in Chisinau reads the news avidly everyday and volunteers comments to the effect that the Ukrainian government is filled with fanatics. She is from a village in Cherkasy oblast, as central Ukrainian ethnically as they come. I suspect there are many other Ukrainians like her, a silent minority which will eventually be a majority who are having doubts about this avoidable war (carry through with Minsk agreement), but are unable to even formulate much less express their doubts because of all the propaganda coming from Kyiv, to speak nothing of persecution of outspoken doubters. And no, I don't put ideas in her head. On the contrary, I try to avoid commenting around her, because the subject depresses me. Plus, as USA citizen, I'm ashamed of what the USA has cynically done to Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Anecdotes? You know these are worthless as evidence, right? So in other words because the Ukrainian hooker you know who you think is your girlfriend said this, while it conveniently buttresses your anti-US, Russia propping point, so it must be true right? No wrong as it's a fallacy.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal[/URL]

Outside of Crimea and the Donbass Ukrainian love for democracy is very strong, as is so testified to by it's resolve and a will to fight. Traitors are relatively few and this is very unlikely to change. As to your shame as a US citizen, and so called "propaganda," seems you have a headful of lefty, Noam Chomsky esque, the US is responsible for all the evil in the world rubbish. We don't want you, but whine in an international hooker forum to your heart's content. You'll find some sympathetic ears. LOL.

It's funny these arguments that keep coming, blaming NATO, and especially the US for the interest in democracy among Eastern Euro nations, and by extension for the war in Ukraine. The agencies of all these countries are completely ignored. Russia might have faired better if they had something to offer besides the kleptocratic, the dreary and drab, threats, and terrorist violence. Yet the fallacy persists, as if repeating it 1000's of times will make it true. A lot of countries enjoy freedom, due process and rule of law, is the name of that tune.

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition[/URL]

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2713806]Russia cannot lose, in both senses of the word cannot: they cannot lose because they can escalate to ensure victory, and they cannot afford to lose because it would have serious geopolitical repercussions. By escalate, I mean tactical nukes. If you really care about Ukraine, you should be hoping to wake up and read that 100 K of Ukraine's finest and most experienced troops were suddenly slaughtered and thus Ukraine has no choice but to negotiate for peace. 100 K young men can be easily replaced in 18 years. Tactical nuclear war could destroy Ukraine permanently. Do not hope for Ukrainian victory, because it will be short-lived.

Note that US military doctrine has always proposed tactical nukes to stop NATO from being overrun. That's a moot point nowadays, because NATO can easily defend itself with conventional weapons, but the doctrine is still there. Tactical nukes are not "beyond the pale of civilized war", in other words. Neutron tactical nukes were specifically developed by the USA in the 1970's (if I recall correctly) to kill Warsaw pact troops flooding into West Germany without destroying too much West German infrastructure.

Western civilization will indeed be weakened after the inevitable Russian victory, though Russia will be weakened much more. This war, like the botched Iraq and Afghanistan wars previously, is part of the process of USA decline from elevated position circa 1990-2010 of undisputed worldwide military supremacy to more sustainable position of powerful but not all-powerful. Next step in this decline process will be rebellion by the western Europeans, as it sinks in how badly they are being affected economically by USA policy..[/QUOTE]Amazing post. The other issue Ukraine is facing the media and the government's will flip on them in a minute. Ukraine government has about 1-2 months to figure this out, or they are in deep shit. Public opinion will start shifting when the media starts reporting about all the corruption that is and was going on in Ukraine. Then the funds, support and weapons will dry up. The better start negotiating, or they will end up with almost nothing.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2713815]Russia has already lost by means of their isolation, economic devastation and pariah status on the world stage.
As to the US weakening, you can only wish. Russia's debacle / suicide has only served to strengthen the West. NATO has never been stronger with more worthy participants eager to participate. Yes the US is the leader of the free world and this shows no signs of weakening. So in other words because the Ukrainian hooker you know who you think is your girlfriend.

Outside of Crimea and the Donbass Ukrainian love for democracy is very strong.[/QUOTE]"Russia has already lost" You poor thing, you can only wish. To hear such stupendous ignorance from a character who purports to travel is understandable when he cannot imagine someone can have a Ukrainian girlfriend, she must be a hooker. Pure projection.

"Love of democracy"? Thanks for the laugh.

Since there's been posted links to The Atlantic, a totemic rag that no one actually reads:

[URL]https://www.unz.com/jfreud/significance-of-empire-vs-alliance-jewish-controlled-us-empire-eu-puppets-in-conflict-with-alliance-of-sovereign-nations-esp-russia-china-iran/[/URL]

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]I will say it again, I can careless who wins. [/QUOTE]Oh yes. You'll certainly say it again. And again. And again.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]One country actually was functioning and contributing. That is Russia, not Ukraine[/QUOTE]Contributing to what? Your gas pump?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]Take away Putin and it is a great place. [/QUOTE]No shit? Take away Putin, and you get Andropov. Take away Andropov, you get Brezhnev. Take away Brezhnev, and you get Stalin. Take away Stalin, you get Lenin. Take away Lenin, and you get the generations of horrible homicidal czars. When was Russia this great livable place, this beautiful Utopia, I wonder.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]Ukraine was a mess, filled with corruption. You guys refuse to recognize, just how corrupt Ukraine is and was. [/QUOTE]And Russia wasn't and isn't?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]Ask the millions that fled over the last 10-15 years, because of the corruption. The reason they left is because they had almost zero chance for a normal life or even better life in Ukraine, they had no future, because of the greed and a terrible government. Ask yourself why everyone has been leaving the county, and this has been going on for over 10 years and has nothing to do with the war, but you ignore the obvious.[/QUOTE]Why go back 10-15 years? Over a million Russians have left after Putin started his criminal war.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2713195]I can careless what you think. This war is ruining economies and is going to cause major collateral damage.[/QUOTE]Yes, only according to you, the country that started this homicidal war is somehow blameless. For some reason it's the victim that receives the brunt of your fury. I wonder why.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2713767]While I'm posting here's another for the Vlad sympathizer Elvis. He whines that his man Vlad is being "demonized" but he does a fine job of that all by himself. In fact terrorism / war crimes are straight from the Russo playbook. It's the way of the coward and how they wage war.[/QUOTE]Paulie, I feel the same way about Vlad as I do most leaders. I do not give a damn what they do unless it affects me.

Oil and natural gas prices did not go up because of Putin. They went up because NATO nations (supposedly) refused to buy Russian oil and natural gas. That stupid policy has led to Russia getting richer and Western nations getting poorer. Saying you Dems are dumb is not offering support for Putin.

Pointing out that your saying Putin is an irrational monster committing horrible war crimes in one breath then saying how rational he will be with nuclear weapons is not support for Putin. Again, that is just showing how inconsistent and dumb you are.

The reason I and people like me are told we should care is that Putin attacked Ukraine and then he is going to go after our NATO allies and WW3 is around the corner is stupid too. That is always what the military industrial complex always sells us. They create a villain who is supposedly threatening our way of life and how we need to spend trillions to stop him. With Vietnam, it was called the domino theory.

So I look into that, and it turns out that Russia has been in a cold war over Ukraine since 2014 and now it is a hot war. It is a purely regional conflict. You have the former commies on one side and the Nazis on the other, and guys like you want us to commit to the Nazis.

So Paulie I am not the coward. I do not have a dog in the fight and want to stay out. But if you think this affects you, you need to quit being a coward and go volunteer and fight alongside the Nazis. Wars are not won just by guys shooting bullets.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2714458]
So I look into that, and it turns out that Russia has been in a cold war over Ukraine since 2014 and now it is a hot war. It is a purely regional conflict. You have the former commies on one side and the Nazis on the other, and guys like you want us to commit to the Nazis.
[/QUOTE]Interesting. How can you use "Nazis" for UA?

In RF, there is the Wagner-Group, and especially Alexander Geljewitsch Dugin, who is suspected to be one of Putlers influencers, from the far right, Nazi side.

[URL]https://www.karenina.de/wissen/geschichte/alexander-dugin-putins-ideengeber/[/URL]

Publishing, not to have a problem with Finland entering NATO, which results in 1300 km more NATO-border, this indicates Putins retreat. Who used the possibility of Ukraine entering NATO as fake argument for war.

Can you pelase go back to writing on Isaan toilet walls?

There is no such person called Putler.

Finland faces some of Russia key nuclear defences. Finland stands to be nuked in an eye blink. The fact that the freak in charge of Finland (the cute working girl raised by two lesbians) does not know that is tough shit. That she wants to working girl herself out to Uncle Sam is her look out.

As regards Snake Island, Russia, for their own reasons I do not divine (and you don't as you are a moron) is calling Ukraine's bluff regarding grain shipments.

Blockading Russia affects lots of folk who have nothing whatsoever to do with this conflict, bar being trading partners of Russia. That the Anglo Americans what to starve the Deep South to death is nothing new. It is what they do.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2714522]Publishing, not to have a problem with Finland entering NATO, which results in 1300 km more NATO-border, this indicates Putins retreat. Who used the possibility of Ukraine entering NATO as fake argument for war.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2714522]Publishing, not to have a problem with Finland entering NATO, which results in 1300 km more NATO-border, this indicates Putins retreat. Who used the possibility of Ukraine entering NATO as fake argument for war.[/QUOTE]Most everyone has had enough with people repeating bullshit explanations given for Putin's invasion of the Ukraine.

Putin has said the Ukraine and the Ukrainians belong to Russia. All you have to do is look at Belarus if you want to see what the Ukraine would look like if they stayed in Russia's orbit.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2714521]Interesting. How can you use "Nazis" for UA?
[/QUOTE]Ukrainian Nazis are the ones who caused the Russian invasion.

Here you have NBC giving you half the story on the Nazis / Ukraine and Putin, [URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946[/URL].

Just as disturbing, neo-Nazis are part of some of Ukraine's growing ranks of volunteer battalions. They are battle-hardened after waging some of the toughest street fighting against Moscow-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine following Putin's Crimean invasion in 2014. One is the Azov Battalion, founded by an avowed white supremacist who claimed Ukraine's national purpose was to rid the country of Jews and other inferior races. In 2018, the USA Congress stipulated that its aid to Ukraine couldn't be used "to provide arms, training or other assistance to the Azov Battalion. " Even so, Azov is now an official member of the Ukraine National Guard.

This story makes it seems like American aid did not go to the Nazis, but it did seamlessly from 2014 to 2017, [URL]https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/[/URL].

House-passed spending bills for the past three years have included a ban on USA Aid to Ukraine from going to the Azov / Nazi Battalion, but the provision was stripped out before final passage each year. This year, though, the $1. 3 trillion omnibus spending bill signed into law last week stipulates that "none of the funds made available by this act may be used to provide arms, training or other assistance to the Azov / Nazi Battalion. ".

Back to NBC, For sure, none of this disturbing context justifies the misery that has befallen Ukrainians over the past several weeks and it's unlikely that Putin was motivated by any of it when he launched his invasion.

That goes directly against what Putin himself said.

Back to the Hill Story, Last year, online posts by the militia's news service showed members testing USA -made grenade launchers at a firing range. The posts have since been deleted, and the Ukrainian National Guard insisted in a January statement that the grenade launchers were not in the Nazi / Azov's possession.

So let's backtrack a second. The Azov / Ukrainian Nazis and Ukrainians of Russian descent have been in a war in Eastern Ukraine since 2014. Russia got sick of how Russians were being treated by the Nazis and they went to war over this.

Zelensky was elected because the people wanted peace but he could not control this sect of his population. One of the issues I have is this crazy notion that USA weapons and CIA training did not make it to Ukrainian Nazis when obviously it did.

It makes me wonder if the reason Zelensky could not control the Nazis is because so much American money and weapons were funneled to them one way or another, but this just goes to show you there has been a war in Ukraine since 2014.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2714631]Finland faces some of Russia key nuclear defences. Finland stands to be nuked in an eye blink. The fact that the freak in charge of Finland (the cute working girl raised by two lesbians) does not know that is tough shit. That she wants to working girl herself out to Uncle Sam is her look out.[/QUOTE]Is it just me or does it seem misogynistic and dense to come to this forum and disparage a political leader as a working girl?

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2714639]
All you have to do is look at Belarus if you want to see what the Ukraine would look like if they stayed in Russia's orbit.[/QUOTE]Were that everywhere was like Belarus. It's a great place to visit -- girls beautiful, natural and educated. You evidently prefer the Isaan princess and the likes of Pattaya and Angeles City which is fine by us.

A little Yiddish ditty for Zelensky and the other scum whose time is running out. God help the Ukrainian morons dying for the Penis Pianist [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs&ab_channel=OlgaMieleszczuk[/URL].

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2714646]Ukrainian Nazis are the ones who caused the Russian invasion.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2714646]it's unlikely that Putin was motivated by any of it when he launched his invasion.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2714646]Russia got sick of how Russians were being treated by the Nazis and they went to war over this.[/QUOTE]Leave the building, Elvis. It's really about time.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2714783]A little Yiddish ditty for Zelensky and the other scum whose time is running out. God help the Ukrainian morons dying for the Penis Pianist [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2TQ2ehSsKs&ab_channel=OlgaMieleszczuk[/URL].[/QUOTE]It is clear that nobody is paying any attention to the garbage you are spewing in this forum. I think I also came very close to correctly profiling you as an old, small-dicked.

Here are a couple of additional guesses about you:

Not college educated, physically ugly, around 5 ft tall, probably made some little money running a porno video store in some small town /3rd world country, not loving anyone and not loved by anyone (deservingly), bitter and not having much to do.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2714631]
There is no such person called Putler.
[/QUOTE]An explanation for a non-educated troll like you: Putler is the nickname for the actual president of the RF. Who has a lot in common with Adolf Hitler:

Capturing neighbouring country because of support of own ethnic population (Sudetenland vs. Crimea and part of UA).

Intentional killing of non-military population.

Breaking existing agreements (Hitler-Stalin Pact / Budapest Memorandum).

Although the nickname Putler might be even considered a compliment: Hitlers army has been welcomed with flowers during annex of Sudetenland.

Putlers invaders have been welcomed with bullets.

[QUOTE=Moron007] An explanation for a non-educated troll like you: Putler is the nickname for the actual president of the RF. Who has a lot in common with Adolf Hitler: [/QUOTE]Putin's nickname is Platov. Fistfkers like you can't even be true or original.

[QUOTE=Moron007]Capturing neighbouring country because of support of own ethnic population (Sudetenland vs. Crimea and part of UA).[/QUOTE]Crimea is a part of Russia. Always was, always will be. Your comment about Sudetenland shows how little you know.

[QUOTE=Moron007] Intentional killing of non-military population.[/QUOTE]You are confusing Russia with the USA, Zelensky's Nazis and others.

[QUOTE=Moron007] Breaking existing agreements (Hitler-Stalin Pact / Budapest Memorandum).[/QUOTE]You forgot the Minsk Agreement and every other agreement the USA an the its cronies broke.

[QUOTE=Moron007] Although the nickname Putler might be even considered a compliment: Hitlers army has been welcomed with flowers during annex of Sudetenland.

Putlers invaders have been welcomed with bullets.[/QUOTE]Russia is not invading. It is liberating and, in Crimea in particular, those liberated, those not on NATO's bribes, are happy with that.

Back into your box now, moron.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2714856]Leave the building, Elvis. It's really about time.[/QUOTE]Why? I have the same position as Israel. You are a Jew supporting Nazis killing the native Russians who set your people free from the German concentration camps. Your position is completely indefensible.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2714639]Most everyone has had enough with people repeating bullshit explanations given for Putin's invasion of the Ukraine.[/QUOTE]The media has been saying that Putin engaged in an inhumane, unprovoked act of aggression. Inhumane and act of aggression I agree with. Unprovoked is bullshit. This is like a smaller kid kicking in a bigger one in the shin, and the bigger one punching the smaller one in the face. As long as there is denial of the provocation, there will continue to be war. I get your point that this is an inhumane war of aggression. Do you get mine that Putin was provoked? Choosing a side means you are cheering on war and death.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2714639]Putin has said the Ukraine and the Ukrainians belong to Russia. All you have to do is look at Belarus if you want to see what the Ukraine would look like if they stayed in Russia's orbit.[/QUOTE]I cannot find anywhere where Putin said that. As for Belarus, the people are living in peace and their GDP per capita is double that of Ukraine. [URL]https://georank.org/economy/belarus/ukraine[/URL].

The Western Press has been hooting about the Russian "invasion" of Crimea when in fact Crimea is mostly Russian nationals and they voted to secede. The Western media has decried this as Putin's devil work and again ignored the economics.

[URL]https://georank.org/economy/russia/ukraine[/URL]

Look at GDP per capita. It is 4 X higher. Then look at debt to GDP. Ukraine has 4 X the debt Russia does. Crimea voting to secede from Ukraine was not Putin's devil work but a rational choice by the people who lived there.

To get back to the topic (which is the search for ukrainian pussy) there has been a massive resurgance of telegram channels where ukrainian girls offer their services. Selling vkdeos, photos and their bodies.

Once things calm down I will definitely be planning to visit Kiev again as that is pretty much the only place where one can enjoy hot young eastern europeans on a reasonable budget.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715077]The media has been saying that Putin engaged in an inhumane, unprovoked act of aggression. Inhumane and act of aggression I agree with. Unprovoked is bullshit. This is like a smaller kid kicking in a bigger one in the shin, and the bigger one punching the smaller one in the face. As long as there is denial of the provocation, there will continue to be war. I get your point that this is an inhumane war of aggression. Do you get mine that Putin was provoked? Choosing a side means you are cheering on war and death.

I cannot find anywhere where Putin said that. As for Belarus, the people are living in peace and their GDP per capita is double that of Ukraine. [URL]https://georank.org/economy/belarus/ukraine[/URL].

The Western Press has been hooting about the Russian "invasion" of Crimea when in fact Crimea is mostly Russian nationals and they voted to secede. The Western media has decried this as Putin's devil work and again ignored the economics.

[URL]https://georank.org/economy/russia/ukraine[/URL]

Look at GDP per capita. It is 4 X higher. Then look at debt to GDP. Ukraine has 4 X the debt Russia does. Crimea voting to secede from Ukraine was not Putin's devil work but a rational choice by the people who lived there.[/QUOTE]I give the liberal Media, 1-2 months, and they will turn on Ukraine Government. They will bring up the corruption and start asking questions. Also, they will questioning why there is almost zero negotiations going on to end this war. This will be the end of the Ukraine government.

Nobody cares about the war in the states anymore, so the liberal media will need to find another way to bring attention to this ridiculous war. Either way Ukraine Government, needs to find a solution quickly, before governments and the media starts asking questions.

[QUOTE=Argo1990;2715217]To get back to the topic (which is the search for ukrainian pussy) there has been a massive resurgance of telegram channels where ukrainian girls offer their services. Selling vkdeos, photos and their bodies.

Once things calm down I will definitely be planning to visit Kiev again as that is pretty much the only place where one can enjoy hot young eastern europeans on a reasonable budget.[/QUOTE]You are insane, Kiev sucked before the war, it will be even worse now. If you want Hot Ukraine Girls go to Europe, they are long gone, but some guys refuse to admit this.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715071]Why? I have the same position as Israel.[/QUOTE]No, you don't. You don't have a position at all. You can't write a post without contradicting yourself several times. That's not a position, that's an affliction.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715071]You are a Jew supporting Nazis[/QUOTE]No, I'm a Jew supporting an underdog who fights against an unprovoked aggression from a way more powerful and openly fascist regime. Comes naturally to me.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715071]Russians who set your people free from the German concentration camps. Your position is completely indefensible.[/QUOTE]Russians liberated Nazis camps in the course of their own fight against Hitler. Not due to their immense sympathy for the plight of my people. And they've been milking it for every drop of the propagandist value ever since.

You wait. In just a few years no one will remember that Russia defeated the Nazis. Everyone will remember Russia only for this despicable war.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715077]The media has been saying that Putin engaged in an inhumane, unprovoked act of aggression. Inhumane and act of aggression I agree with. Unprovoked is bullshit. This is like a smaller kid kicking in a bigger one in the shin, and the bigger one punching the smaller one in the face. As long as there is denial of the provocation, there will continue to be war. I get your point that this is an inhumane war of aggression. Do you get mine that Putin was provoked? Choosing a side means you are cheering on war and death.

I cannot find anywhere where Putin said that. As for Belarus, the people are living in peace and their GDP per capita is double that of Ukraine. [URL]https://georank.org/economy/belarus/ukraine[/URL].

The Western Press has been hooting about the Russian "invasion" of Crimea when in fact Crimea is mostly Russian nationals and they voted to secede. The Western media has decried this as Putin's devil work and again ignored the economics.

[URL]https://georank.org/economy/russia/ukraine[/URL]

Look at GDP per capita. It is 4 X higher. Then look at debt to GDP. Ukraine has 4 X the debt Russia does. Crimea voting to secede from Ukraine was not Putin's devil work but a rational choice by the people who lived there.[/QUOTE]How the fuck was Putin provoked? He attacked Ukraine in 2014, unleashed horrors and death, started a hybrid war, stole its territory, and felt provoked because Ukraine kept fighting? Because Ukraine refused to back off?

So any big country can do anything it wants to a smaller and weaker country as long as its insane leader feels "provoked"?

Voted to secede? Under the occupation? So any occupying power in the world has the right to organize a sham referendum and take away a part of another country or only your beloved Russia?

What does a GDP or anything have to do with the bloody genocidal war that Putin is waging against its neighbor?

You people are something else.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715218] I give the liberal Media, 1-2 months, and they will turn on Ukraine Government. They will bring up the corruption and start asking questions. [/QUOTE]The media do what it is told. Any independence they may have had fled years ago. The corruption of the Kiev criminals was covered before the war began but it is off the menu now.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715218]Also, they will questioning why there is almost zero negotiations going on to end this war. This will be the end of the Ukraine government. [/QUOTE]I can answer that one for them. Boris Johnson's job is to stiffen resolve and get the gangster Zelensky to refuse talks. If any leader goes to Kiev to tell the fool to talk, Johnson is on the next plane saying Nyet.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715218]Nobody cares about the war in the states anymore, so the liberal media will need to find another way to bring attention to this ridiculous war. [/QUOTE]Americans never cared about any war, except when they were filling body bags. The media only brings attention to what their bosses want us to know. The corrupt Zelensky junta is not one of those things.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715218]Either way Ukraine Government, needs to find a solution quickly, before governments and the media starts asking questions.[/QUOTE]Government and media do not ask questions.

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62015954[/URL]

Two more British mercenaries. Given what was done to Russian POWs (cutting off their fingers, mutilating their legs), I think we can all agree these British and American criminals deserve no mercy and that firing squads are too good for them.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715278]So any big country can do anything it wants to a smaller and weaker country as long as its insane leader feels "provoked"?.[/QUOTE]No. Only Israel and the USA can do that.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715278]How the fuck was Putin provoked? He attacked Ukraine in 2014, unleashed horrors and death, started a hybrid war, stole its territory, and felt provoked because Ukraine kept fighting? Because Ukraine refused to back off?

So any big country can do anything it wants to a smaller and weaker country as long as its insane leader feels "provoked"?

Voted to secede? Under the occupation? So any occupying power in the world has the right to organize a sham referendum and take away a part of another country or only your beloved Russia?

What does a GDP or anything have to do with the bloody genocidal war that Putin is waging against its neighbor?

You people are something else.[/QUOTE]A despot is always provoked by anyone who would choose freedom and self-determination over the tyrant's tyranny. It's not even worth it to respond to these people. They're only here to provoke themselves!

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2715327]The media do what it is told. Any independence they may have had fled years ago. The corruption of the Kiev criminals was covered before the war began but it is off the menu now.

I can answer that one for them. Boris Johnson's job is to stiffen resolve and get the gangster Zelensky to refuse talks. If any leader goes to Kiev to tell the fool to talk, Johnson is on the next plane saying Nyet.

Americans never cared about any war, except when they were filling body bags. The media only brings attention to what their bosses want us to know. The corrupt Zelensky junta is not one of those things.

Government and media do not ask questions.[/QUOTE]Biden will be powerless fairly quickly and I imagine Johnson is not far behind. Yes, the liberal media does what they are told.

They will turn on Z. Mark my words, probably sooner then later.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2715383]A despot is always provoked by anyone who would choose freedom and self-determination over the tyrant's tyranny. It's not even worth it to respond to these people. They're only here to provoke themselves![/QUOTE]Beautifully stated.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715278]How the fuck was Putin provoked? He attacked Ukraine in 2014, unleashed horrors and death, started a hybrid war, stole its territory, and felt provoked because Ukraine kept fighting? Because Ukraine refused to back off?

So any big country can do anything it wants to a smaller and weaker country as long as its insane leader feels "provoked"?
[/QUOTE]OMG. Where have you been? CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. Do you not remember "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU"? Ukraine is not all sweet, little, and innocent. Since 2014, they have been trying to partner up with a bigger bully, us. Because you are a Dem, you think Ukrainegate and Russiagate were no big deal, but I guarantee they were to Russia. Giving aid to Ukrainian Nazis to harass and kill Russian nationals in Eastern Ukraine? Saying Putin rigged the 2016 election? Russian bots? The CIA and military advisers training Ukrainian soldiers? Ukraine Joining NATO? Shutting off water to Crimea? Investigating Peegate? The whole Steele Dossier?

Do you have anything that works between your ears?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]OMG. Where have you been? CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. Do you not remember "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU"? Ukraine is not all sweet, little, and innocent. Since 2014, they have been trying to partner up with a bigger bully, us. Because you are a Dem, you think Ukrainegate and Russiagate were no big deal, but I guarantee they were to Russia. Giving aid to Ukrainian Nazis to harass and kill Russian nationals in Eastern Ukraine? Saying Putin rigged the 2016 election? Russian bots? The CIA and military advisers training Ukrainian soldiers? Ukraine Joining NATO? Shutting off water to Crimea? Investigating Peegate? The whole Steele Dossier?

Do you have anything that works between your ears?[/QUOTE]It's impossible to recognize when you're in a cult. Do you have loving parents or family who can intervene and take you someplace safe for gradual deprogramming?

Don't confuse us with the facts! Just because the USA almost went into a nuclear war over the USSR stationing nuclear missiles in Cuba near US territory during the Cuban missile crisis is no reason for Putin to almost go into a nuclear war over Ukraine joining NATO and Ukraine being used for stationing nuclear missiles and bioweapons labs near Russian territory! As we all know, the sovereignty of borders of nations is inviolate and Russia under no circumstances had the right to do a special military operation in Ukraine even though the US did several special military operations in places like Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan etc. The key to understanding the correct move for yourself is to think like a Ukrainian politician and avoid being brainwashed by the mindless CNN propaganda. The real issues are how do I avoid getting stuck fighting in a war based on lies and get the most US foreign aid money for myself to smuggle into Switzerland? Think Petro Petroshenko, the former Ukrainian president got caught trying to escape to Poland after leaving the combat area. . . LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]OMG. Where have you been? CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. Do you not remember "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU"? Ukraine is not all sweet, little, and innocent. Since 2014, they have been trying to partner up with a bigger bully, us. Because you are a Dem, you think Ukrainegate and Russiagate were no big deal, but I guarantee they were to Russia. Giving aid to Ukrainian Nazis to harass and kill Russian nationals in Eastern Ukraine? Saying Putin rigged the 2016 election? Russian bots? The CIA and military advisers training Ukrainian soldiers? Ukraine Joining NATO? Shutting off water to Crimea? Investigating Peegate? The whole Steele Dossier?

Do you have anything that works between your ears?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]OMG. Where have you been? CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. [/QUOTE]Oh? Please tell me more how "CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. " I'm really interested how you're going to back up this BS.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]Do you not remember "Yats is our guy" and "Fuck the EU"? [/QUOTE]No, I do not. Please elaborate (and oh yeah, back this up too).

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]Ukraine is not all sweet, little, and innocent. Since 2014, they have been trying to partner up with a bigger bully, us. [/QUOTE]No it's not sweet and innocent. Hence what -- bomb away?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]Because you are a Dem, [/QUOTE]I'm not a 'Dem' but please don't let this little detail slow you down.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]you think Ukrainegate and Russiagate were no big deal. [/QUOTE]As in Ukrainegate being Trump's attempt to pressure Ukraine into digging up dirt on his political rival? The one that led to his impeachment?

As in Russiagate being Putin's successful bid to install his puppet into the WH in 2016?

Gee, I don't know why you'd think so. They were a 'big deal" indeed.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]Giving aid to Ukrainian Nazis to harass and kill Russian nationals in Eastern Ukraine? Saying Putin rigged the 2016 election? Russian bots? The CIA and military advisers training Ukrainian soldiers? Ukraine Joining NATO? Shutting off water to Crimea? Investigating Peegate? The whole Steele Dossier?[/QUOTE]Now you're lumping together all your bullshit datapoints, and it's getting illegible. Not the first time you've developed complete incoherence by the end of your post. Hey, here's a simple solution. Brevity.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715535]Do you have anything that works between your ears?[/QUOTE]Yes I do.

You?

Wait, don't bother.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2715441]Beautifully stated.[/QUOTE]Totally agreed!

XPartan is an Israeli shill. They are hired by Mossad to jam up online discussions worldwide. He proves this by showing total ignorance of the facts you outlined and asking you to reply to his undiluted nonsense. The pig has nothing to contribute.

There have been major developments overnight but this pig's job is to keep everyone in the dark.

If you fancy banging the widows of Azov fighters, rooms are to be had in Kiev on [URL]booking.com[/URL].

Anyway, happy 4 July to those captured American mercenaries. Enjoy your apple pie before you die.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715615]Oh? Please tell me more how "CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. " I'm really interested how you're going to back up this BS.
.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715615]Oh? Please tell me more how "CIA took out a Democratically elected leader in Ukraine in 2014. " I'm really interested how you're going to back up this BS.

No, I do not. Please elaborate (and oh yeah, back this up too).[/QUOTE]Nah, I just made it up.

Honestly, I do not want to overload you. You and John Clayton are trapped in the cult of the Democratic party. The facts and marching orders can be confusing. Hell, John still believes in Russiagate and peegate. John, do you have a mother who can tell you what is real and make believe? Do you cry yourself to sleep saying, "I know Russiagate is real, mommy, I know it. ".

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715615]Now you're lumping together all your bullshit datapoints, and it's getting illegible. Not the first time you've developed complete incoherence by the end of your post.[/QUOTE]My bad, I should have treated you like the Neanderthal you are. Ever hear of Google? How long would it take to put Fuck the EU and Yats is our guy into a search engine? Or do you need your mommy to type it for you?

[QUOTE=Travv;2715604]Don't confuse us with the facts! The real issues are how do I avoid getting stuck fighting in a war based on lies and get the most US foreign aid money for myself to smuggle into Switzerland? Think Petro Petroshenko, the former Ukrainian president got caught trying to escape to Poland after leaving the combat area LOL.[/QUOTE]You need to put a / sarc at the end of this. That was fucking hilarious.

Only thing is Zelensky seems to prefer London to Switzerland. I cannot blame him. I think the hos are cheaper there. [URL]https://new-economy.gr/2022/03/13/zelensky-pandora/[/URL].

I got to say that Zelensky did buy himself a nice spread in London with all that aid money. Maybe we should give him another $40 billion.

Our traitorous old aquaintance Elvis finally found the spot for his Putin rim jobbing fix, even though he's never been to Europe. Long live the free for all threads, and bring on the wingnut conspiracy theories. Wink.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2715615]I'm not a 'Dem' but please don't let this little detail slow you down.[/QUOTE]Naturally he wants to turn it into a Dem / Repub thing while continuing to ignore the fact that only 11 Repub senators voted against the latest aid package to Ukraine. And he erects the usual straw man as no one is calling Ukraine "sweet and innocent. " The US isn't either with a freedom score of 83 out of 100. If "sweet and innocent" were the criteria then the US would have no allies, and no act of aggression could be challenged as no one is "innocent. " Eyeroll. The freedom score of Ukraine is at 60, about on par with Tucker Carlson's fav country Hungary. Ukraine has made a lot of progress in the last eight years, and especially since breaking from their former Russian puppet government. Russia by contrast gets a score of 20 and their pals Belarus, 5. But probably the greatest demonstration of a love for freedom in Ukraine is seen on the battlefield, against genocidal terrorists, while traitors like Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, Tulsi Gabbard, and their sheep in online discussion forums blow Putin to completion. True conservatives of old like Reagan are turning in their graves.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715670]You need to put a / sarc at the end of this. That was fucking hilarious.

Only thing is Zelensky seems to prefer London to Switzerland. I cannot blame him. I think the hos are cheaper there. [URL]https://new-economy.gr/2022/03/13/zelensky-pandora/[/URL].

I got to say that Zelensky did buy himself a nice spread in London with all that aid money. Maybe we should give him another $40 billion.[/QUOTE]Again, something these idiots forgot to talk about. Most of the government in Ukraine were rarely in country, living abroad. They were out spending the civilian money in other countries, instead of fixing Ukraine.

The first thing that should be done is audit of all the government officials accounts, then you will see how corrupt these guys are.

If you want to defeat Putin produce massive amounts of Oil and keep sanctioning on him. Until you liberals do this, he will just wait you out and at the end win. In the end the losers will be the Ukraine and Russia people. Hopefully the rest of the world will wake up and sometimes there is.

A loser in life, not everybody can win. Ukraine will lose, know one is coming to bail them out. The weapons and money will not be enough.

Putin is horrible guy and obviously he does not care about the lose of human life to accomplish his goals. Ukraine government is definitely partially to blame and they continue to do nothing to diffuse the war. They have to find a solution or they will end up with next to nothing.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2715664]XPartan is an Israeli shill. They are hired by Mossad to jam up online discussions worldwide. He proves this by showing total ignorance of the facts you outlined and asking you to reply to his undiluted nonsense. The pig has nothing to contribute.

There have been major developments overnight but this pig's job is to keep everyone in the dark.
[/QUOTE]Hired? Nah. This piglet is just bringing gaslight unto the nations, and trying to heel the world.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715766]Again, something these idiots forgot to talk about. Most of the government in Ukraine were rarely in country, living abroad. They were out spending the civilian money in other countries, instead of fixing Ukraine.

The first thing that should be done is audit of all the government officials accounts, then you will see how corrupt these guys are.

If you want to defeat Putin produce massive amounts of Oil and keep sanctioning on him. Until you liberals do this, he will just wait you out and at the end win. In the end the losers will be the Ukraine and Russia people. Hopefully the rest of the world will wake up and sometimes there is.

A loser in life, not everybody can win. Ukraine will lose, know one is coming to bail them out. The weapons and money will not be enough.

Putin is horrible guy and obviously he does not care about the lose of human life to accomplish his goals. Ukraine government is definitely partially to blame and they continue to do nothing to diffuse the war. They have to find a solution or they will end up with next to nothing.[/QUOTE]I agree, and Putin has done things before this that were horrible. He stole Robert Kraft's rings, tried to rig the Olympics, and he just seems like he is a megalomaniac.

Still, I have to say that it was amazing watching him be interviewed for Russiagate and he had more faith in our electoral process that we do. He asked the reporter how he could change the minds of millions of Americans, and the reporter had no answer. Then the reporter handed Putin a written brief on Russiagate and Putin threw it away like you do in a trash can. The reporter asked Putin if he would read it and Putin rolled his eyes and said maybe later.

How does Putin trust anything we say after that? How does he not think we are a total bunch of morons? A huge chunk of Americans are so stupid they think Putin cost the Democrats the election. It was impossible that Hiliary ran a shit campaign.

And 2020 was even worse. That psychopath Hunter Biden leaves that laptop with some of the most vile shit on it imaginable at a repair store. This time instead of the FBI, it is the intelligence community calling it Russian disinformation. If Putin says that the Hunter Biden Russian disinformation story is bullshit, does Trump win? I think he probably would have. So in 2020, Putin could have altered the election but chose not to. His reward for all that was Biden beefing up military forces in Ukraine. I wonder if he is kicking himself for not calling bullshit on all those lies.

Thing about Victoria "Fuck the EU" and "Yats is our guy" Nyland is the Russians are probably the ones who caught her saying that. If so, there was a lot more, and they knew all about Obama and the Dems schemes for Ukraine and are seeing them now try to bring their plans to reality.

DF, You and I would love to see peace come to Ukraine, but peace has to be based on trust. Yeah, Putin is a bad guy, but would it be rational for him to trust anything we say now? I am not sure that is even possible.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2715664]
If you fancy banging the widows of Azov fighters, rooms are to be had in Kiev.
[/QUOTE]Nah, I heard they only do anal.

Funny thing about Ukraine and Venezuela. I went to Venezuela in 2007 and really did not see that many hotties but some of the Vennies I saw in Mexico and Colombia were among the hottest women I had ever seen.

Of the cities I went to in the USSR (yes it was a while ago), I thought St. Petersburg had the hottest women. There were some hotel hos back then that were 10's. But I went to Kev (that was how it was spelled then) and I liked the city, and I even swam in the Dnieper River pre-Chernobyl, but I saw nothing special there with the women.

Guys were going to Ukraine around 2000 to bang hotties and marry these women. They had those find-a-wife tours where dummies pay $2000 to do something they could do for half on their own. Anyway, guys were bragging about how hot these women were. I was like shocked because I saw nothing special. I heard Odessa was the best, and I had not gone there, It would have been a good time to go because of the strong dollar then but I passed. 85 cents bought one Euro then.

A year or so later though, I was at a buddy's wedding in Toronto, and we do the bachelor party in the strip clubs there, and I was super impressed. There were loads of beautiful blonde blue eyed gals with perfect figures who really could move, and the hottest ones were all from Ukraine.

I have never been to Poland and I am so, so curious what the pussy market is like there. I imagine it would be like being in Colombia at the peak of the Vennie invasion.

For all of us, that is probably what matters most about the war.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715880]Nah, I heard they only do anal.[/QUOTE]Works for me! Aaahahaha!

A very bumpy ride in the middle of summer.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGrpKPngkyQ[/URL]

[URL]https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/three-quarters-salary-going-fuel-24200645[/URL]

Three quarters of my salary is going on fuel': The carer who says she can't afford to work.

She and other people who rely on transport to do their jobs have described how it's becoming very tough, almost impossible, to keep going.

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/fuel-protest-petrol-prices-m4-b2115143.html[/URL]

"Woman defends road fuel protest after losing her job to high petrol prices".

I bet she and others won't be Happy when she reads Pandora's papers on High End Apartments in London purchased with suspect money by Certain Ukrainians.

Empathy doesn't last forever.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2715749]And he erects the usual straw man as no one is calling Ukraine "sweet and innocent. " The US isn't either with a freedom score of 83 out of 100. If "sweet and innocent" were the criteria then the US would have no allies, and no act of aggression could be challenged as no one is "innocent."[/QUOTE]I mentioned before that the development of successful democracies hasn't been linear. If you look at the development of South Korea and Taiwan, you would find that they had large corruption and did not fully embrace democracy in their infancy. Democracy was an evolution. Much to the chagrin of the West, there's no magic democracy dust you can sprinkle on reborn nations.

You can add some other democratic countries to that list. Brazil, Chile and a few other emerging democracies in South America. Southeast Asia has had some fits and starts as well.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2716154]I mentioned before that the development of successful democracies hasn't been linear. If you look at the development of South Korea and Taiwan, you would find that they had large corruption and did not fully embrace democracy in their infancy. Democracy was an evolution. Much to the chagrin of the West, there's no magic democracy dust you can sprinkle on reborn nations.

You can add some other democratic countries to that list. Brazil, Chile and a few other emerging democracies in South America. Southeast Asia has had some fits and starts as well.[/QUOTE]That's all true and logical. The poster in question though, Elvis isn't able to debate the content but erects straw men and knocks them down or ignores rebuttals altogether and repeats the same fallacious arguments and unproven, unsourced conspiracies over and over, all with plenty of filibustering in between. He finally found his way here. You guys enjoy him. LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715670]Only thing is Zelensky seems to prefer London to Switzerland. I cannot blame him. I think the hos are cheaper there. [URL]https://new-economy.gr/2022/03/13/zelensky-pandora/[/URL].

I got to say that Zelensky did buy himself a nice spread in London with all that aid money. Maybe we should give him another $40 billion.[/QUOTE]It's not the WGs they are after, They are after Prime London Real Estate, Better than anywhere else.

Keeping it close as well "Around the time of his 2019 election, Zelensky handed his shares in a key offshore company over to Shefir, but the two appear to have made an arrangement for Zelensky's family to continue receiving money from the offshore".

Zelensky's current chief aide, Serhiy Shefir, as well as the head of the country's Security Service, were part of the offshore network".

Servants Of The People! [URL]https://www.jta.org/2021/09/23/global/jewish-aide-to-ukraines-president-survives-assassination-attempt[/URL].

Several shots were fired at the car of Sergey Nachmanovich Shefir, a former television producer whom Zelensky appointed as his top aide.

Ukrainians are crooks. Nobody wants to do business with them. Have any of you intellectuals actually engaged in business with Ukrainians where broken trust could lead to real financial damage. I'll guess no. It's basically Africa there.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2716171]That's all true and logical. The poster in question though, Elvis isn't able to debate the content but erects straw men and knocks them down or ignores rebuttals altogether and repeats the same fallacious arguments and unproven, unsourced conspiracies over and over, all with plenty of filibustering in between. He finally found his way here. You guys enjoy him. LOL.[/QUOTE]Paulie, I think you are incorrect. Your reports are once's that are inaccurate and ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Riina;2716226]Ukrainians are crooks. Nobody wants to do business with them. Have any of you intellectuals actually engaged in business with Ukrainians where broken trust could lead to real financial damage. I'll guess no. It's basically Africa there.[/QUOTE]If Ukrainians are crooks, then the Russian invasion of their country (excuse me special military operation) proves the veracity of the old adage that there is no honor among thieves.

[QUOTE=Riina;2716226]Ukrainians are crooks. Nobody wants to do business with them. Have any of you intellectuals actually engaged in business with Ukrainians where broken trust could lead to real financial damage. I'll guess no. It's basically Africa there.[/QUOTE]Yes. The government is a bunch of Crooks and you know this. You can pretend not to know the truth, but you do.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2715666][b]Nah, I just made it up.[/b]

Honestly, I do not want to overload you. You and John Clayton are trapped in the cult of the Democratic party. The facts and marching orders can be confusing. Hell, John still believes in Russiagate and peegate. John, do you have a mother who can tell you what is real and make believe? Do you cry yourself to sleep saying, "I know Russiagate is real, mommy, I know it. ".

My bad, I should have treated you like the Neanderthal you are. Ever hear of Google? How long would it take to put Fuck the EU and Yats is our guy into a search engine? Or do you need your mommy to type it for you?[/QUOTE]You've failed to address all my points. Again. Whatever you're trying to do here doesn't work. It's actually quite pathetic.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2715749]Naturally he wants to turn it into a Dem / Repub thing while continuing to ignore the fact that only 11 Repub senators voted against the latest aid package to Ukraine. And he erects the usual straw man as no one is calling Ukraine "sweet and innocent. " The US isn't either with a freedom score of 83 out of 100. If "sweet and innocent" were the criteria then the US would have no allies, and no act of aggression could be challenged as no one is "innocent. " Eyeroll. The freedom score of Ukraine is at 60, about on par with Tucker Carlson's fav country Hungary. Ukraine has made a lot of progress in the last eight years, and especially since breaking from their former Russian puppet government. Russia by contrast gets a score of 20 and their pals Belarus, 5. But probably the greatest demonstration of a love for freedom in Ukraine is seen on the battlefield, against genocidal terrorists, while traitors like Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, Tulsi Gabbard, and their sheep in online discussion forums blow Putin to completion. True conservatives of old like Reagan are turning in their graves.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL][/QUOTE]Some of these people are definitely paid Russian shills. Which can give you an idea of how stupid Russian goebbels-masters must be, paying actual money for spreading disinformation on a MONGERING forum, for Christ's sake!

But not all of them. Elvis, for example, has always been nuts, running BS posts about AIDS and posting 20-year old magazine articles to support his insane views. The latest events have given him and nutheads like him a chance to find each other and hide behind conservative politics. No lie is too big for these people, as long as it serves the common goal.

[QUOTE=Riina;2716226]Ukrainians are crooks. Nobody wants to do business with them. Have any of you intellectuals actually engaged in business with Ukrainians where broken trust could lead to real financial damage. I'll guess no. It's basically Africa there.[/QUOTE]Apparently, the world would rather do business with them than Putin's Crime Cartel. But go ahead, Russia is still open. What's holding you?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2716418]Apparently, the world would rather do business with them than Putin's Crime Cartel. But go ahead, Russia is still open. What's holding you?[/QUOTE]Russian exports are booming you fool. Ukraine is kept afloat by massive EU subventions. After the mass shooting in Chicago, you'd think you would STFU for at least one day and contemplate the criminality you bring on the streets of Jerusalem, Hebron and Chicago. But no.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2716270]Paulie, I think you are incorrect. Your reports are once's that are inaccurate and ridiculous.[/QUOTE]DF, while you and I were taking advantage of Covid putting some of the most amazing women out on the market, Paulie was sitting in his basement, scared shitless for 2 years. We knew Covid was not that bad.

Because I had seen so much Covid and had real world experience that went against the mainstream narrative, I shared it hence the conspiracy theories. Paulie's best buddy in attacking me was JJBee. After lecturing the forum on Covid for over a year, the fool JJBee got vaccinated, thought he was bullet proof, caught Covid and literally got on a plane while sick and spread it all over Colombia, yet these guys think they showed me up on Covid.

Still Paulie is such an obnoxious jerk that JJBee outed him. JJBee has said no one will hang around him, and I think you can see why. Paulie tries to make friends here by agreeing with another guy's POV and giving that guy the impression that they have some secret understanding and that they are special and experts.

Paulie is so cheap that he lectured guys to dress like Medellin natives and bragged that the only women he was banging were in the slums. I am not sure what other dumb things he did to save a buck but his slum dwelling habits got him drugged with scopalamine and apparently he got massively ripped off. So why anyone would follow this clown on anything after that is a mystery to me. You want high quality pussy at a fair price, listen to me. If you want cheap ghetto girls, listen to him but do not be surprised if that cheap pussy is more costly long term.

We have both used seeking and guys have said on the seeking forum there is a paradox. The women who ask for the least often get the most of our money, and I think that is because guys feel like these women are not slutty morally bankrupt WGs but classy women they consider friends. These women are engaging in a contrarian strategy. The way you get more money from guys is to ask for little / none of it.

In the stock market, contrarians make more than anyone and my portfolio is up huge this year while most people are down. And if I were not taken, I would be making contrarian moves in the European pussy market now.

Normally, I would consider going to Russia now while everyone is scared, but here is the irony, it is not a bargain. Thanks to the brain dead policies of Biden and Europe, Russia is richer than ever, and the price of pussy there is through the roof. The concept of spending $40 billion on arms to Ukraine and engaging in policies that make Russia $60 billion richer make no sense to me, but by not cheering on those policies, I am a conspiracy nut.

From a safety POV and pussy POV, I wanted to look into the claim that Russia is going to attack all Europe, and that is more defense industry sponsored media bullshit. This is a civil war but the defense industries want to make it seem like Putin is heading for France any day now.

The Euro is now at a 20 year low and the reason for that is the great exporter Germany has finally seen a trade imbalance. Germany is now importing more than it is exporting due to energy costs. Like with Covid, the dumb Dem response has been copied. In much of the world the way you approach a crisis is you slit your own wrists economically to show you care.

The contrarian investing slogan is the time to invest is when there is blood in the streets AKA disruption, but really it is distinguishing between when things are really bad and when people just say they are. I am interested in the top women, and you typically cannot find them except during times of disruption. Both my gal and I have commented that without Covid we would have never met each other.

In this case, the streets of Eastern Europe have the potential to be dripping with high quality Ukrainian pussy at a fair price. For us, that is what is important. I would have sworn at the beginning of this war, it would be Russia with the cheap pussy but it is not and pointing out where the cheap pussy actually says a lot about this war.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2716465]Russian exports are booming you fool. Ukraine is kept afloat by massive EU subventions.[/QUOTE]What exports are you blabbering about, Sr. Immorales? Oil?

Russian oil exports to China and India are "booming" because the Russians are selling them at a 30% discount. And guess what: they don't have much left. India has already pumped all cheap Russian oil they could get their hands on. As for China, Iran slashed its crude prices too to compete with Russians. So 'booming' is about to cease.

What other exports, you bullshitter? The dream of global hegemony?

Russia is going to break. Not today and not tomorrow, for your master still has the resources to slaughter thousands more civilians, but it will crumple under the weight of the sanctions, Western armament and heroism of Ukraine's defenders. And then they'll fucking wish they'd never started this fascist shit show in the first place.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2716834]
What other exports, you bullshitter? The dream of zionist global hegemony?
[/QUOTE]Isreal is going to break. Not today and not tomorrow, for your master still has the resources to slaughter thousands more civilians, but it will crushed under the weight of the BDS, the wheel of Justice and heroism of Palestine's defenders. And then they'll fucking wish they'd never started this ziofascist shit show in the first place.

There, all fixed for you.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2716834]What exports are you blabbering about, Sr. Immorales? Oil?

Russian oil exports to China and India are "booming" because the Russians are selling them at a 30% discount. And guess what: they don't have much left. India has already pumped all cheap Russian oil they could get their hands on. As for China, Iran slashed its crude prices too to compete with Russians. So 'booming' is about to cease.

What other exports, you bullshitter? The dream of global hegemony?

Russia is going to break. Not today and not tomorrow, for your master still has the resources to slaughter thousands more civilians, but it will crumple under the weight of the sanctions, Western armament and heroism of Ukraine's defenders. And then they'll fucking wish they'd never started this fascist shit show in the first place.[/QUOTE]Until Ukraine and there allies wake up and decide to have a winning strategy they are going to lose big time. The only way to win is too massively produce more oil then Russia and keep up the sanctions. This is too easy, but for whatever reason they do not want to do this. Maybe, because they would lose what little political support they have left.

Johnson is almost finished and Bidden is not far behind. Z. better figure something quickly, or he will have nothing left.

And they hunt in packs, LOL.

Ukraine needs to start at the top in its Anti Corruption March to get even wider support for its people.

Starting here [URL]https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/us-sanctions-ukrainian-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky/[/URL].

"The Office of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy appeared to welcome the news, releasing a statement declaring "Ukraine must overcome a system dominated by oligarchs" and acknowledging that "Ukraine is grateful to each partner for its support along the way. ".

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3566-Ukraine-Politics[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2717188]And they hunt in packs, LOL.[/QUOTE]Yea, could be some straight up shills from Russia but more than likely just ill educated white grievance types on the far right living in the US and Europe. Some may have some Russia roots. Many likely have a head full of Tucker Carlson, especially from before he had to tone it down some when Putin started blowing maternity wards and bread lines. But it's the same old Russian propaganda. "NATO expansion" even though the East expanded into NATO, not the other way around. They tasted freedom post USSR, enjoyed it, and knowing Russia too well asked for protection. Freedom is popular, and Putin said he had no problem with Finland and Sweden joining. We hear about CIA conspiracies but it was more of the same. The Ukraine tasted some freedom, noticed what their neighbors were enjoying and wanted the same. They have moved in the direction of democracy and now have a freedom score of 60 out 100, which is much higher than many countries of the world and 40 points higher than Russia.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

We hear the ludicrous "de-Nazification" justification, though while Neo-Nazis exist in Ukraine, their party only makes up 2% of the population and was insufficient to win any seats in parliment. The Ukraine has a small far right contingent just like the US, France, Sweden, Germany, and Russia. The Azov battalion in the military makes up a mere 1000 members. The whole notion of a Nazi country with a Jewish president is ridiculous on it's face, especially in the absence of any evdience that he's a Nazi collaborator.

[URL]https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/[/URL]

Russia wants Ukraine's farmlands, ports, and industrial complexes while restoring empire. They are criminal, murderous, genocidal, grossly dishonest, anti-democratic, and are our enemies. Those who side with them in the US and Western Europe should forfeit the freedoms and protections they currently are enjoying and go live with them.

It's also worth noting again, for anyone who wants to turn it into a Democratic / Republican thing, that only 11 Republican senators voted against the latest aid package to Ukraine. One is free to repeat that line along with other refuted angles over and over, but we all know that dog doesn't hunt.

P.S. There's no dedication that will every match the zeal and dedication for lies. These will always shout the loudest and are sure to get the last word which of course is a hollow victory.

That's until you get a better grip on the English language. It's not easy I know, but is worth the effort as it's the language of business across most of the world.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2717363]Yea, could be some straight up shills from Russia but more than likely just ill educated white grievance types on the far right living in the US and Europe.[/QUOTE]You're the shill. You never posted here before.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2716953]Russia has limitless resources, you moron. Fuck off and kill a Palestinian child.[/QUOTE]Pedro / Pedrillo, as in your life, you seem to be getting very little attention and zero love on this forum. How come?

[QUOTE=Riina;2717506]You're the shill. You never posted here before.[/QUOTE]Looks like you don't know how to use the search posts feature of ISG. I do realize that such complicated tasks may be asking a lot of many here, and especially among Putin buttboys. C'est La Vie.

[QUOTE=Riina;2717506]You're the shill. You never posted here before.[/QUOTE]As opposed to people who're flooding this thread with Putinesque horse manure?

Your posts are about me. The others are looking for basic info on Peru. As in sex, it seems you are a receiver, not a giver.

My agenda here is different than yours or your fellow Israeli trolls. I "cruise" past here on the off chance there might be information from the minority of intelligent people; as someone obsessed with dick metaphors, no doubt you know all about cruising, one of your sort's filthiest habits (and you have so m any). In this thread, in American Politics and in others, it is enlightening to know how dumb the Clinton / Obama / Trump trolls are. All that is above your pay grade. Now fuck off.

Early morning, first of two post breakfast beverages, then shower and out to seize the day like the Romans before me.

[QUOTE=Tumeric1;2717535]Pedro / Pedrillo, as in your life, you seem to be getting very little attention and zero love on this forum. How come?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2717493]That's until you get a better grip on the English language. It's not easy I know, but is worth the effort as it's the language of business across most of the world.[/QUOTE]Yeah, what's wrong with some people. Like, don't they know the world revolves around what Americans say and think.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2717641]Yeah, what's wrong with some people. Like, don't they know the world revolves around what Americans say and think.[/QUOTE]I hear ya, though this is an English language forum and his posts are often cryptic at best. He spoke of locking someone one up so I offerred a tongue and cheek recommendation for the same for him. LOL.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2717641]Yeah, what's wrong with some people. Like, don't they know the world revolves around what Americans say and think.[/QUOTE]Indeed! Why doesn't the world revolve around the freedom-hating, anti-Semitic, Putin-loving fascists who want to destroy a whole nation solely for trying to break free from the homicidal and asphyxiating "Russian World"?

Something is so wrong with some people. You betcha.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2717814]Indeed! Why doesn't the world revolve around the freedom-hating, anti-Semitic, Putin-loving fascists who want to destroy a whole nation solely for trying to break free from the homicidal and asphyxiating "Russian World"?

Something is so wrong with some people. You betcha.[/QUOTE]You paint this picture of people being free in Ukraine. 60-70% of the population lived in poverty, but you leave this out of your reports. This was due to laziness and a corrupt system.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2715221]You are insane, Kiev sucked before the war, it will be even worse now. If you want Hot Ukraine Girls go to Europe, they are long gone, but some guys refuse to admit this.[/QUOTE]I was in Kiev in 2019 therefore I KNOW that it did not suck before the war. Also why would anyone right in their mind pay 150-200 Euro for an hour with a Ukrainian pro if they could get a gorgeous 20 year old for 2 or 3 hours and 100 euro?

And you are the one calling me insane.

[QUOTE=Argo1990;2717836]I was in Kiev in 2019 therefore I KNOW that it did not suck before the war. Also why would anyone right in their mind pay 150-200 Euro for an hour with a Ukrainian pro if they could get a gorgeous 20 year old for 2 or 3 hours and 100 euro?

And you are the one calling me insane.[/QUOTE]I was also there in late 2019. While it was not as good there as it had been a decade earlier when the floating nightclub full of working girls was still open and running it certainly was not that bad. There were lots of young beautiful women available. I spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe and in the Ukraine and the people are very friendly not to mention beautiful and welcoming. They were still digging out of the mess that the Soviet Union left them in but they were doing well and had a very strong outlook for the future.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717816]You paint this picture of people being free in Ukraine. 60-70% of the population lived in poverty, but you leave this out of your reports. This was due to laziness and a corrupt system.[/QUOTE]Living in poverty and living free are two different things. Ukraine has a Freedom Index of 60, Russia - 20. What in the holy name of fuck are you talking about?

But wait. Because you're lying about everything else too.

All Russian riches is concentrated in 2 cities, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Living standards in Russian provinces are way below Ukraine. Why do you think, Russian "liberators" steal toilets, toasters and washing machines? They're lucky if they have indoor plumbing, for Christ's sake.

Laziness? Seriously? Have you even been anywhere in Russia, except Moscow?

And please, please stop with this corruption shtick. Yes, Ukraine is corrupt; courtesy of post-USSR reality. But Russia is a corruption goddess and thieving queen of the world. Corruption my ass!

Talk about something you know.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2717852]Living in poverty and living free are two different things. Ukraine has a Freedom Index of 60, Russia - 20. What in the holy name of fuck are you talking about?

But wait. Because you're lying about everything else too.

All Russian riches is concentrated in 2 cities, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Living standards in Russian provinces are way below Ukraine. Why do you think, Russian "liberators" steal toilets, toasters and washing machines? They're lucky if they have indoor plumbing, for Christ's sake.

Laziness? Seriously? Have you even been anywhere in Russia, except Moscow?

And please, please stop with this corruption shtick. Yes, Ukraine is corrupt; courtesy of post-USSR reality. But Russia is a corruption goddess and thieving queen of the world. Corruption my ass!

Talk about something you know.[/QUOTE]Have you ever been to either Kiev or Russia I doubt it. You love to talk all this be. S. I do not recall you actually writing a trip report.

Sorry, Ukraine people are by far the most lazy and corrupt people I have ever met in my life. Colombian girls are close. I experienced almost zero corruption in Russia. On the other hand Ukraine was one scam after another. If you had actually been there you would know this.

Most Ukraine that live in Kiev are dirt poor, but again you have probably never been there. It is even worse in the other cities. You are delusional.

Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best.

QUOTE=Jojosun; Ukraine needs to start at the top in its Anti Corruption March to get even wider support for its people.

Starting here [URL]https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/us-sanctions-ukrainian-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky[/URL].

"The Office of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy appeared to welcome the news, releasing a statement declaring "Ukraine must overcome a system dominated by oligarchs" and acknowledging that "Ukraine is grateful to each partner for its support along the way. ".

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3566-Ukraine-PoliticsQUOTE[/URL]

In the interest of The People of Ukraine, Another tainted Oligarch needs at some point to be Locked up as well.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5320381/Oligarch-barred-selling-UKs-expensive-flat.html[/URL]

"Rinat Akhmetov was born in Donetsk, Ukrainian SSR, to a working-class family. He is an ethnic Volga Tatar and a practicing Sunni Muslim". Wikipedia says so.

LOL, these days as some would say "You can't even say Boo to a Goose " without offending someone among Liberal White educated Men.

Wingless&No fan of Putin'sRussia, and his invasion of Ukraine.

One can accuse Put in of many things but I don't think being Anti Jewish is one of them.

[URL]https://repository.upenn.edu/spice/vol13/iss1/5/[/URL]

"Despite support from and for right-wing elements and a deep-seated national history of anti-Semitism, the policies of the Russian government under Vladimir Putin have been markedly devoid of anti-Semitism. Appeals to nationalist, imperialist, and Eurasianist ideologies, pragmatic politics, and foreign policy concerns fail to explain these policies adequately. The biography of Putin himself, which includes influential, positive relationships with Jews, provides a better explanation. The personalized influence of the president on Jewish policy suggests a personalized, hyper-centralized regime generally".

Roman is Putin' s Guy. [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/roman-abramovich-linked-to-russian-state-and-corrupt-activity-mp-says[/URL].

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717855]
Sorry, Ukraine people are by far the most lazy and corrupt people I have ever met in my life. [/QUOTE]They're all drunks.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717855]Have you ever been to either Kiev or Russia I doubt it. You love to talk all this be. S. I do not recall you actually writing a trip report.[/QUOTE]1. Yes. Lots of times.

2. Never mongered in CIS, hence no reports. Satisfied?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717855]Sorry, Ukraine people are by far the most lazy and corrupt people I have ever met in my life. Colombian girls are close. I experienced almost zero corruption in Russia. On the other hand Ukraine was one scam after another. If you had actually been there you would know this.[/QUOTE]Right, YOU never experienced corruption, therefore it doesn't exist. Wonderful. Have you been to the Moon?

Transparency International ranks Russia 136 out of 180. Below Angola, below Liberia, below Papua New Guinea. Seriously below Ukraine, although at 126, Ukraine is not much to write home about either. Still better than Russia.

[URL]https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021[/URL]

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717855]Most Ukraine that live in Kiev are dirt poor, but again you have probably never been there. It is even worse in the other cities. You are delusional.[/QUOTE]1. Most Kievites dirt poor? Bullshit. At least, that wasn't the case before Putin's war.

2. Yes, it's worse in other cities. But in Russia, life in villages and small towns is not just worse. It's catastrophically worse. Even big provincial cities are terrible for living, although they do have indoor plumbing at least. 23% of Russian households DO NOT HAVE FLUSHING TOILETS.

[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049[/URL]

Versus less than 10% for Ukraine.

[URL]https://www.statista.com/chart/23557/access-to-basic-sanitation[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2717982]Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best.[/QUOTE]Aha, sure as long as you don't set your foot outside Moscow / SP. And Putin's unsustainable war is going to change that quickly.

But thank you for not pretending anymore and making it clear to everyone that you're shilling for Russia.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2717982]Wingless&No fan of Putin'sRussia, and his invasion of Ukraine.

One can accuse Put in of many things but I don't think being Anti Jewish is one of them.

[URL]https://repository.upenn.edu/spice/vol13/iss1/5/[/URL]

"Despite support from and for right-wing elements and a deep-seated national history of anti-Semitism, the policies of the Russian government under Vladimir Putin have been markedly devoid of anti-Semitism. Appeals to nationalist, imperialist, and Eurasianist ideologies, pragmatic politics, and foreign policy concerns fail to explain these policies adequately. The biography of Putin himself, which includes influential, positive relationships with Jews, provides a better explanation. The personalized influence of the president on Jewish policy suggests a personalized, hyper-centralized regime generally".

Roman is Putin' s Guy. [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/roman-abramovich-linked-to-russian-state-and-corrupt-activity-mp-says[/URL].[/QUOTE]Yes, unlike his security apparatus, Putin doesn't appear to be an anti-Semite. Does it make him less of a monster of war criminal? No.

Where did you get this in any of my Posts "Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best ". You Quoted me in your latest post.

Your explanation is needed ASAP.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2718345]Where did you get this in any of my Posts "Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best ". You Quoted me in your latest post.

Your explanation is needed ASAP.[/QUOTE]I said it. This guy hates, everyone that does not agree with his crazy liberal views. Funny. I do not recall him ever writing a report about actually meeting girls or mongering trip. He just writes hate abd if you do not agree with his crazy views he gets upset.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2718345]Where did you get this in any of my Posts "Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best ". You Quoted me in your latest post.

Your explanation is needed ASAP.[/QUOTE]Like the Putin-fanboy proudly stated below, it was him, not you. Sorry about that. Can't edit anymore, otherwise I would.

In the meantime, Russia fired into an apartment building in Donetsk a few hours ago, killing at least 15.

Great place, huh?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2718397]Funny. I do not recall him ever writing a report about actually meeting girls or mongering trip.[/QUOTE]You're right, it is funny. A simple search could help, but I understand you're busy nowadays.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2717855]

Sorry, Ukraine people are by far the most lazy and corrupt people I have ever met in my life. Colombian girls are close. I experienced almost zero corruption in Russia. [/QUOTE]No need to apologize as you've never been to Ukraine or Russia, and even if you had, your biased anecdotes are worthless as evidence.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2718345]Where did you get this in any of my Posts "Before Covid Russia was great place, Ukraine was a shit hole, at best ". You Quoted me in your latest post.

Your explanation is needed ASAP.[/QUOTE]A coherent post is needed from you "ASAP".

[QUOTE=Riina;2718137]They're all drunks.[/QUOTE]Given your inability to follow the conversation this likely applies to you, that or mental retardation.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718162]
Aha, sure as long as you don't set your foot outside Moscow / SP. And Putin's unsustainable war is going to change that quickly.[/QUOTE]He's never set foot inside Moscow, Ukraine, Latin Am, or any other places he claims to have visited.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718514]Like the Putin-fanboy proudly stated below, it was him, not you. Sorry about that. Can't edit anymore, otherwise I would.

In the meantime, Russia fired into an apartment building in Donetsk a few hours ago, killing at least 15.

Great place, huh?[/QUOTE]Go away, Donetsk is part of Donbass under The DPR and The RF control. Wish you, your fellow Americans leave us, Russians and Ukrainians alone. Take your 'huh' to the problems of your own country.

[QUOTE=Questner;2718557]Go away, Donetsk is part of Donbass under The DPR and The RF control. Wish you, your fellow Americans leave us, Russians and Ukrainians alone. Take your 'huh' to the problems of your own country.[/QUOTE]Great Advice!!

[QUOTE=Questner;2718557]Go away, Donetsk is part of Donbass under The DPR and The RF control. Wish you, your fellow Americans leave us, Russians and Ukrainians alone. Take your 'huh' to the problems of your own country.[/QUOTE]Um, that would be problematic.

1. DPR doesn't exist. It's a part of Ukraine illegally seized by a former GRU colonel and war criminal Girkin-Strelkov, which is currently ruled by mobsters.

2. Ukrainians don't want to be left alone with Russians.

3. This thread is called "Stupid shit in Kyiv. Problems of my country are being discussed elsewhere.

By the way, you've been asked to present your credentials before, but been very shy about it for whatever reasons. And no, the "us, Russians and Ukrainians" doesn't qualify, priyatel.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2718541]He's never set foot inside Moscow, Ukraine, Latin Am, or any other places he claims to have visited.[/QUOTE]Quite possible. Most of his comments are political in nature or from Mexico. No reports from Ukraine even though he claims he lived there.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718618]Quite possible. Most of his comments are political in nature or from Mexico. No reports from Ukraine even though he claims he lived there.[/QUOTE]You guys are delusional, just like you favorite Presidents Bidden and Z.

Yes, it is true I lived in Kiev, unfortunately. It was a great place and then it became a shit hole. Funny, how you guys never talk about the corruption in Ukraine, but forgot you guys are expert's.

Thank you Guys (DF&XP) for your prompt clarifications.

Was going to send you PMs but couldn't delete old ones.

Cheers.

QUOTE=Paulie97;2718537]A coherent post is needed from you "ASAP". / QUOTE.

LOL, It's called Stupid Shit in Kiev and I need few stiff drinks first to make it sound coherent.

[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BYudr9FAGOA[/URL]

Really miss the old days at O'BRiEN'S Pub in Kiev.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Questner;2718557]Go away, Donetsk is part of Donbass under The DPR and The RF control. Wish you, your fellow Americans leave us, Russians and Ukrainians alone. Take your 'huh' to the problems of your own country.[/QUOTE]Amen Brother! I read this piece in Mish talk and it made me sick: [URL]https://mishtalk.com/economics/as-long-as-it-takes-ukraine-war-goal-is-now-to-win-through-exhaustion[/URL].

Leaders of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization last month rallied around a new slogan for Ukraine: "As long as it takes. " When a reporter asked President Biden to explain what that means, he said: "As long as it takes so Russia cannot, in fact, defeat Ukraine and move beyond Ukraine. ".

As long as Messrs. Putin and Zelensky both believe they are winning, or at least not losing, and as long as they are listening to their generals and not their diplomats, it is likely that this conflict will remain a slow, bloody and long war.

So Europeans and Americans pay more for gasoline and natural gas and we keep pumping money into a cause that ensures more dead Ukrainians and Russians. This is a rare situation that only a politician could create where everyone loses except for Putin because he has more money to buy and build weapons due to higher energy prices.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2717363]
Russia wants Ukraine's farmlands, ports, and industrial complexes while restoring empire. They are criminal, murderous, genocidal, grossly dishonest, anti-democratic, and are our enemies. Those who side with them in the US and Western Europe should forfeit the freedoms and protections they currently are enjoying and go live with them.
[/QUOTE]These are the words of a coward living in Colombia and says that people in the USA and Europe should forego their freedoms. You can take your "pro Democracy", "pro freedom" flag waving and shove it where the sun does not shine. Quit cheering on the deaths of people dying for nothing. If you so believe in Ukrainian freedom, go fight for it mo fo. Quit posting on a hooker board and learn how to shoot.

And what is this our crap? You do not speak for me fool. You dumb Dems have been looking for a war the second Biden moved into office. In 2016, Trump won because Putin rigged the election. In 2020, Hunter Biden's laptop was Putin's Russian disinformation. But even after that proved to be bullshit, you Dems kept on and on. Gas prices high? Putin's fault. Food prices up? Putin's fault. And that is just what was out in the open. God knows what was going on under the surface.

So to you dumb Dems, when Trump won in 2016, it was rigged by Putin but when your guy won in 2020, it was "the fairest election in history. " What a crock of shit.

So let me be clear. This was in Ukraine IMO is just as much on you Dems IMO as it is on Putin. You Dems have been demonizing and lying about him for years. And your dumb line about NATO and Eastern Europe, "The Eastern Europeans asked to join and who were we to tell them no" is offensive to me. So we make a promise and break it and that is okay? You think the Russians are going to trust us when negotiating a peace? Why the fuck would they? Shit, I want to nuke Belgium for that fucking lie. Going into Ukraine seems peaceful by comparison.

And where do you get off lecturing about "freedom" when the USA has more people in jail than anyone else thanks to pols like Clinton and Biden?

Pointing out where Dems have fucked up and lied is not being pro-Putin. This whole war is fucking stupid and worse than that, it was avoidable. I want the people in Ukraine and Russia to live in peace, and the single greatest gift that can be given to the world's poor is cheap electricity. Someone has told me that Biden thinks the only way the Dems can hold Congress is if Putin is brought down. Yeah, that sounds about right. Everyone in the world should suffer in order for the dumb Dems to hold onto power.

And just so it does not go unnoticed, you are the biggest liar on the forum. I met Dramafree in Mexico and he talked to me about his trips to Russia and we made very sketchy plans about going. And with me, you claim no one knows me but somehow you know everywhere I have been and I never have gone to Colombia or Russia or Ukraine. So how do you know where me and DF have traveled? Because you just made it up, and that makes you a fucking liar.

By the way, does getting drugged by a Colombian WG in the slums make you an expert on Colombia?

If I were an admin, I would require all your posts be signed POS fucking liar at the end. I wonder if this is why JJBee and his crew dumped your sorry ass.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718615]3. This thread is called "Stupid shit in Kyiv. Problems of my country are being discussed elsewhere.[/QUOTE]Such is the "whataboutism" or tu quoque fallacy. They are unable to handle the substance of the arguments so they try to change the subject.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718618]Quite possible. Most of his comments are political in nature or from Mexico. No reports from Ukraine even though he claims he lived there.[/QUOTE]He might have crossed the border into Tijuana if he lives in California, but he certainly has never been to the Ukraine or Russia. And he's so stupid as to think that what he reports to have "seen" constitutes evidence. For example he said he saw Ukraine's tiny army then announced that they'd be finished off inside a week while accusing the media of spreading false information about their prowess.

He claims to have been to Russia, saw no corruption, therefore none must exist. ROFL That's even though they are the kleptocracy capital of the world, regularly murder political opponents and send people to jail for 15 years for criticizing the regime. They also get horrible freedom scores no matter who is doing the measurement, but in a word it's impossible to take a guy like that seriously.

Looks like we have a real troll here. Let's not feed him and he'll go away.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2718827]He might have crossed the border into Tijuana if he lives in California, but he certainly has never been to the Ukraine or Russia. And he's so stupid as to think that what he reports to have "seen" constitutes evidence. For example he said he saw Ukraine's tiny army then announced that they'd be finished off inside a week while accusing the media of spreading false information about their prowess.

He claims to have been to Russia, saw no corruption, therefore none must exist. ROFL That's even though they are the kleptocracy capital of the world, regularly murder political opponents and send people to jail for 15 years for criticizing the regime. They also get horrible freedom scores no matter who is doing the measurement, but in a word it's impossible to take a guy like that seriously.[/QUOTE]You are on Crack. Yes, read the reports. Unlike you and your buddy I actually travel to these destinations. Yes, Moscow was an amazing place, and people went of there way to help me.

You Xpar, have a lot in common. Maybe Xpar to travel to MDE and you guys can hang out, you both hate America.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2718827]He might have crossed the border into Tijuana if he lives in California, but he certainly has never been to the Ukraine or Russia. And he's so stupid as to think that what he reports to have "seen" constitutes evidence. For example he said he saw Ukraine's tiny army then announced that they'd be finished off inside a week while accusing the media of spreading false information about their prowess.

He claims to have been to Russia, saw no corruption, therefore none must exist. ROFL That's even though they are the kleptocracy capital of the world, regularly murder political opponents and send people to jail for 15 years for criticizing the regime. They also get horrible freedom scores no matter who is doing the measurement, but in a word it's impossible to take a guy like that seriously.[/QUOTE]Interesting if either you or X. Would have actually traveled to Ukraine you would realize just how corrupt it is and was, but that would require you guys getting off your computer and traveling. Neither one of you rarely talk about girls or your actual trips.

The death toll from a Russian rocket strike at the residential building in Donetsk rose to 24. It's expected to rise more as rescue teams are digging out more bodies and survivors.

6 people are dead after a rocket attack on an apartment building in Kharkiv.

Russia can't win on the battlefield, so it's flying dozens of rockets into Ukraine daily. And flying blindly, using the barrages not against any military objectives, but against residential areas to terrorize civilians.

I have no idea how Putin's fanboys cheering on his atrocities from the sidelines can look at themselves in the mirror.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2718827]He might have crossed the border into Tijuana if he lives in California, but he certainly has never been to the Ukraine or Russia. And he's so stupid as to think that what he reports to have "seen" constitutes evidence. [/QUOTE]He actually lives in Texas, and we met in Monterrey Mexico where he had a hot date and so did I. But once again, the facts do not matter to you. Why tell the truth versus just proclaiming things as you wish they could be?

Your opinion on Colombia was that the whole country is a scam. The funny part is that DF actually has much your same attitude about Colombia but he is not a hypocrite like you who stayed there. If the whole country is a scam, WTF are you doing there?

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2718827]That's even though they are the kleptocracy capital of the world, regularly murder political opponents and send people to jail for 15 years for criticizing the regime. They also get horrible freedom scores no matter who is doing the measurement, but in a word it's impossible to take a guy like that seriously.[/QUOTE]If Russia is so terrible and we are so just, why is Eric Snowden living in Russia? What did he do that was so terrible? Show the world our government was lying its ass off about our freedom and civil rights?

Thing about Snowden is that he has volunteered to come back and face what he did as long as he has a trial of his peers I. E. Citizens, but the cowards in our government do not want to take that chance. They are such wimps they only want Snowden in a military court where they can rig the results.

The only place Snowden can live free is in Russia. That is a helluva statement about American "freedom" right there.

My brother lived in St. Petersburg a year and loved it. He said that as long as you did not criticize Putin you did what you wanted. Sexual freedom was huge there. The women banged men like American women shake your hand. Having sex for fun was no big deal.

And men were free to keep what they earned. He said Russian women were shocked when he told them of alimony and child support.

And he said a Russian man was deeply offended when he mentioned American freedom. The Russian man said he was never so scared in his life as he was working in the USA. He said in Russia all he had to work on was performance. In the USA, he said you could be easily fired for looking at a woman wrong or making a joke about a fat person or gay person. He was constantly on edge about offending someone.

My brother returned to the USA because the income he could make here was the best. So yeah, the USA is the land of opportunity. But the land of freedom? Fuck that. Things are so fucked up here that the only people who can determine a person's sex is a biologist. Anyone who misuses the pronouns he or she can be fired from their job.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718917]The death toll from a Russian rocket strike at the residential building in Donetsk rose to 24. It's expected to rise more as rescue teams are digging out more bodies and survivors.

6 people are dead after a rocket attack on an apartment building in Kharkiv.

Russia can't win on the battlefield, so it's flying dozens of rockets into Ukraine daily. And flying blindly, using the barrages not against any military objectives, but against residential areas to terrorize civilians.

I have no idea how Putin's fanboys cheering on his atrocities from the sidelines can look at themselves in the mirror.[/QUOTE]The answer is simple, they are the lowest of the low and possess no conscience, are walking tombs waiting on the next internet argument or hooker to bang.

[QUOTE=Riina;2718858]Looks like we have a real troll here. Let's not feed him and he'll go away.[/QUOTE]Riina, you and P.S. Fit in perfect with these 2 losers. The only difference is you and P.S, actually traveled to Ukraine. These 2 winners have never been there.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2718923]He actually lives in Texas, and we met in Monterrey Mexico where he had a hot date and so did I. But once again, the facts do not matter to you. Why tell the truth versus just proclaiming things as you wish they could be?

Your opinion on Colombia was that the whole country is a scam. The funny part is that DF actually has much your same attitude about Colombia but he is not a hypocrite like you who stayed there. If the whole country is a scam, WTF are you doing there?

If Russia is so terrible and we are so just, why is Eric Snowden living in Russia? What did he do that was so terrible? Show the world our government was lying its ass off about our freedom and civil rights?

Thing about Snowden is that he has volunteered to come back and face what he did as long as he has a trial of his peers I. E. Citizens, but the cowards in our government do not want to take that chance. They are such wimps they only want Snowden in a military court where they can rig the results.

The only place Snowden can live free is in Russia. That is a helluva statement about American "freedom" right there..[/QUOTE]Correct, my friends in Moscow and St. Pet. Loved Russia. This was before Covid and the war. The thing is if you work hard and behave you will have a decent life Russia.

Now my friends in a Ukraine were complete opposite, they were trying to get the hell out of there. Why is this, because there was no future and corruption. This was 7-10 years and had nothing to do with the war. The funny thing and you can read this in my reports, I met so many Ukraine in Russia it was unbelievable, why is this, Very simple it was a better life.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718917]The death toll from a Russian rocket strike at the residential building in Donetsk rose to 24. It's expected to rise more as rescue teams are digging out more bodies and survivors.

6 people are dead after a rocket attack on an apartment building in Kharkiv.

Russia can't win on the battlefield, so it's flying dozens of rockets into Ukraine daily. And flying blindly, using the barrages not against any military objectives, but against residential areas to terrorize civilians.

I have no idea how Putin's fanboys cheering on his atrocities from the sidelines can look at themselves in the mirror.[/QUOTE]XMan you claim to know everything, so how exactly is Ukraine going to win the war? They going to run out of soldiers. This will happen from fatigue, injuries and desertions. Ukraine armed forces has over achieved and done an amazing job, but they can not keep this up. There is no reserve forces coming, they are in deep trouble now. The answer, there is no way, unless one of 2 things happen. Nuclear war, and in this case we all lose. The other way is if we invade Russia, even in your crazy fantasy world this will never going to happen. I know in the Video genes you Pauline play, Ukraine wins, but this is fantasy land, but this how you guys live your lives.

I guess you forgot to look at CNN over the weekend, (The kings of Fake News, but I am sure this is your Favorite Network), even they said the war is not going as well for Ukraine now and the sanctions are not working. CNN will turn on Pres. Z shortly and that will be the end. The sad part is so many are suffering from this war, but you guys want it to continue on. The longer it goes on the more the world economy suffers, you guys are making Russia Richer and more powerful. Great strategy, but this is what you Liberals are good at losing, and Ukraine Government is even better at losing. This time Ukraine is taking the world economy down with them and our Great Pres. And Whack jobs around him are too stupid to realize what's going on.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2718917]The death toll from a Russian rocket strike at the residential building in Donetsk rose to 24. It's expected to rise more as rescue teams are digging out more bodies and survivors.

6 people are dead after a rocket attack on an apartment building in Kharkiv.

Russia can't win on the battlefield, so it's flying dozens of rockets into Ukraine daily. And flying blindly, using the barrages not against any military objectives, but against residential areas to terrorize civilians.

I have no idea how Putin's fanboys cheering on his atrocities from the sidelines can look at themselves in the mirror.[/QUOTE]Nobody is cheering this. We want the war to end. This will be done negotiations, but neither party is willing to do this.

Snowden is a tragic figure. He's way too smart not to understand what Russia's all about. But he didn't have much of a choice, did he? He'd been put in an impossible position.

Choosing between Russia and a multi-year sentence in a 100-square foot prison cell? Well, even today's Russia wins.

Snowden is a person of conscience, otherwise he wouldn't have done what he did. I simply don't believe that all the crimes against humanity and clear genocide taken place in Ukraine day in day out somehow escape him. He must be devastated.

Although what do I know? People change.

In any case, it is tragically ironic that a person who shed the light on the wrongdoings of his own government has been forced to hide in a country that's 1,000 times worse in all possible regards.

It really sucks that I have to apply for a Russian visa to enter the territory formerly known as Ukraine.

Ukraine's leaders sent their finest men into a Buzzsaw.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719001] Snowden is a tragic figure. He's way too smart [/QUOTE]Something a spammer like you could never be accused of.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719001] Although what do I know? People change.[/QUOTE]Agreement at last. We can all agree you are an utter ignoramus.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719001]In any case, it is tragically ironic that a person who shed the light on the wrongdoings of his own government has been forced to hide in a country that's 1,000 times worse in all possible regards.[/QUOTE]The USA is the shit of the world. Raping, robbing, torturing, plundering. Pure, unadulterated filth.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2718966]XMan you claim to know everything, so how exactly is Ukraine going to win the war? [/QUOTE]They cannot and it is not about Ukraine winning the war. That is what the dumb Dems Paulie and Xpartan do not get. The hope is that those in the Russian government rebel against Putin, oust him, and Biden can brag and say, "You see I got rid of Putin."

What is so stupid about this is that I do not think anyone, outside of the Dems who are already going to vote for Biden, cares. When we got rid of Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi, it did not make either country better. What was left behind was a shit show.

On top of that, there is zero way of knowing that if someone took over Putin, they would not be worse.

The same thing happened in Afghanistan. The clusterfuck of a pullout was done because Biden wanted all the troops out by the 20th anniversary of the war so he could brag about it. Biden oversaw the death of so many because he thought the pullout might boost his image.

At the rate this is going, Trump is a shoo in to win in 2024 as this war will go on. Unlike all these fucking Dems who have been lying about Putin for years, Putin can trust Trump and they can work out a deal. Putin has no reason to trust any fucking Dem. None. Trump runs on $2 gasoline and ending the war in Ukraine. What are the Dems going to counter with? Grab them by the pussy? Fucking a porn star? Yeesh.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2718958]Riina, you and P.S. Fit in perfect with these 2 losers. The only difference is you and P.S, actually traveled to Ukraine. These 2 winners have never been there.[/QUOTE]I forgot to mention another clown Rog, you guys have been lying about Ukraine for years.

[QUOTE=Riina;2719021]Ukraine's leaders sent their finest men into a Buzzsaw.[/QUOTE]In case you haven't noticed twerp, Russia has suffered major battfield deaths, 10's of 1000's and including many in the higher ranks. Much of this has been the result of their laughable "jack in the box" death trap tanks. They are currently ducking and hiding, overwhelmed by artillery in Melitopol.

We can see that he is on a posting frenzy since caught lying about having been to Ukraine and Russia. There are no reports from these countries in his post history, and his descriptions of Medellin and Mexico City are also very inaccurate.

Twerp you are right wingnut Putin buttboy wannabe, with no higher education and a high school diploma at most. The fact that you think your claims of having been certain places constitutes evidence proves that.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]They cannot and it is not about Ukraine winning the war. That is what the dumb Dems Paulie and Xpartan do not get. The hope is that those in the Russian government rebel against Putin, oust him, and Biden can brag and say, "You see I got rid of Putin.[/QUOTE]Nonsense. The primary aim is to support democracy in Europe in the face of the worst unprovoked aggression there since World War II. We are providing aid as we should, but the ultimate outcome is undetermined as much of it depends on the Ukrainians, who have a strong desire to fight to preserve their identity. It would be nice if they can drive the terrorists completely off their land, but more likely their efforts will strengthen their position at the negotiating table. Russia is suffering plenty, by sanctions and loss of life and equipment on the battlefield.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]What is so stupid about this is that I do not think anyone, outside of the Dems who are already going to vote for Biden, cares. When we got rid of Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi, it did not make either country better. What was left behind was a shit show.[/QUOTE]Whatever you call a "shit show" has improved the lives of Americans and our allies as terrorism directed at us has been greatly reduced. As to Russia, they've seen improvements in the past as the result of regime changes, plus a free Russia in the future isn't out of the question given that many of their young appreciate the Western way of life. But in any case, seeing that you feel so strongly about this, how many letters have you sent out to Republican congressmen and senators outlining your arguments? The overwhelming majority support Ukraine's war effort.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]On top of that, there is zero way of knowing that if someone took over Putin, they would not be worse.[/QUOTE]Once again regime change isn't the aim, though this would be nice if the Russian people take care of the problem themselves. And you have "zero way of knowing" if a Putin replacement might be less psychopathic and homicidal. In fact there's a good chance they would be. But this is another straw man as there's very little we can "know" about the future with certainty. Thus such never justifies inaction. Duh.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]The same thing happened in Afghanistan. The clusterfuck of a pullout was done because Biden wanted all the troops out by the 20th anniversary of the war so he could brag about it. Biden oversaw the death of so many because he thought the pullout might boost his image.[/QUOTE]The withdrawal from Afghanistan was facilitated according to the arrangements made under the Trump administration. The "clusterfuck" is within your own confused, angry and obsessed brain and this has nothing to do with the legitimate support of Ukraine, which once again, sees wide bi-partisan support with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid packages. Why do you keep ignoring that fact while trying to make it about the Democrats? The reason is because you are dishonest and incapable of engaging in legitimate debate. As to the Wars on Terror, these needed to be fought as nowadays we see few attacks against our citizens and allies.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]At the rate this is going, Trump is a shoo in to win in 2024 as this war will go on. Unlike all these fucking Dems who have been lying about Putin for years, Putin can trust Trump and they can work out a deal. Putin has no reason to trust any fucking Dem. None. Trump runs on $2 gasoline and ending the war in Ukraine. What are the Dems going to counter with? Grab them by the pussy? Fucking a porn star? Yeesh.[/QUOTE]Sadly there's a whole lot more going against Trump than grabbing pussy and fucking porn stars. We can start with grifting in Ukraine withholding taxpayer funds for personal favors. We can add lying about a pandemic which cost 100's of 1000's of American live unnecessarily as we have had the highest per capital death rates among wealthy nations. We can add being a stupid moron recommending bleach ingestions or UV lights up the orifices to combat viral infections. LOL We can add Stop the Steal lies while collecting $ from suckers and pocketing 250 million for his PAC. This while the claims were laughed out of 60 courts. We can talk about soft coup attempts then a violent one which lead to the deaths of police officers. No he's not getting elected in 2024 as there's no way enough voters even in swing states will trust someone so corrupt, stupid, and unbalanced again at the helm. Repubs would be wise to run DeSantis.

Regarding Putin, there's no "deals" with Trump other than the latter hitting his knees and giving a BJ. Little Vlad had long had his designs to re-instate empire and this was coming regardless. Yet Trump was attacking and jockeying to pull us out of NATO, grifting in Ukraine, bungling a pandemic killing us off, tossing our historic allies the Kurds under the wheels, wrecking US democracy with stolen election nonsense while sending violent mobs on the Capital, etc. Why distract from all those wonderful gifts by attacking the Ukraine? It was inevitable though.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2718966]XMan you claim to know everything, so how exactly is Ukraine going to win the war? They going to run out of soldiers. [/QUOTE]Gee, let me make it easy for you.

1. Ukraine's population is 40 million vs. Russia's 140 millions. Ukrainian soldiers are fierce and well-motivated warriors defending their homeland, while Russians are [I]contractnicks[/I] fighting for money. You do know that Putin calls it a "special military operation" (too scared to even call it a war). Until and unless they declare full mobilization, Russia simply doesn't have enough soldiers. Simple as that. They're already recruiting in jails and prisons.

2. If they do mobilize, that will be another disaster. Young Russian men don't want to go to war, no matter what they say in surveys. And why should they? Contractnicks at least get paid. They do get cheated, though, but still. So why should young conscripts get killed for free?

3. Modest Russian successes so far owe it exclusively to supreme, 20:1, Russia's artillery advantages. HIMARS have already changed this landscape. In the last few days, Ukrainians have destroyed at least 20 high-value targets including weapon, fuel depots and command centers. And there are many more to come. In the meantime, Russia has already used up most of its high-precision artillery, and the sanctions all but ensure they won't be able to replace them quickly enough.

4. Contrary to what you knuckleheads believe, the sanctions are working and working well. It's been just a few months, but already the auto industry has shrunk by at least 85% and chip exports by 90%. And sure they still can sell their oil and gas, but what the hell are they going to do with the money? Russia used to import almost everything including nails. They can't even make nails, for fucks sake.

5. Finally, failure is not an option. Ukraine would be extremely dumb to trust Russia about anything. If they give up the territory, Putin will use the break to regroup and start again. And they'll be better prepared next time.

[QUOTE=Riina;2719017]It really sucks that I have to apply for a Russian visa to enter the territory formerly known as Ukraine.[/QUOTE]That's sounds about par for the course. To hell with the lives lost, ruined lives, and destroyed infrastructure. All that matters is a minor inconvenience in your quest to go buy hookers. I'm sure you'll find some sympathy here.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2719257]We can see that he is on a posting frenzy since caught lying about having been to Ukraine and Russia. There are no reports from these countries in his post history, and his descriptions of Medellin and Mexico City are also very inaccurate.

Twerp you are right wingnut Putin buttboy wannabe, with no higher education and a high school diploma at most. The fact that you think your claims of having been certain places constitutes evidence proves that.[/QUOTE]Sorry, you are the one that is completely delusional. Why would anyone make up living in MDE or Kiev. At least XMan occasionally make a good point.

For the record I was only on Bogota, briefly. I was in MDE for 3 months and hated every minute of it. So I do not hate the whole country, I just do not like MDE and I am not impressed with the girls at all. As I said most of the girls have or want fat asses, way too jealous and extremely lazy.

As I told lovemudd, you can meet me in M. City anytime you like. I am there every 10 days. You can verify my life, but that would mean you would have to get off the computer, were is very easy make stuff. I am sure you have never been to Kiev or Russia, and I doubt XMan has been their either. You guys are insane.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719305]Gee, let me make it easy for you.

1. Ukraine's population is 40 million vs. Russia's 140 millions. Ukrainian soldiers are fierce and well-motivated warriors defending their homeland, while Russians are [I]contractnicks[/I] fighting for money. You do know that Putin calls it a "special military operation" (too scared to even call it a war). Until and unless they declare full mobilization, Russia simply doesn't have enough soldiers. Simple as that. They're already recruiting in jails and prisons.

2. If they do mobilize, that will be another disaster. Young Russian men don't want to go to war, no matter what they say in surveys. And why should they? Contractnicks at least get paid. They do get cheated, though, but still. So why should young conscripts get killed for free?.[/QUOTE]You live in a dream world. Even CNN says the sanctions are not working, but you conveniently leave these details out. This is what happens when we back Ukraine and forget to produce oil. You are making Putin stronger and richer.

As I said, the Ukraine army as done a great job, but there is no way they can keep it up. This only happens in your Video Game, this is real life and war is horrible.

Then you have the crazy ass Pres. Z, claiming they will never negotiate. All he is doing is getting his people killed and destroying his country, this is not winning. In the next couple of weeks the CIA will pull him into a dark room and tell him come up with a solution or compromise. If refuses the support will begin to dwindle, this has to come to end.

I know you guys live in a fantasy world, but in war not everybody can be a winner, like in your liberal world, war is Hell. All Ukraine had to do is behave, but instead there government took another path and we are all suffering the repercussions.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2719253]In case you haven't noticed twerp, Russia has suffered major battfield deaths, 10's of 1000's and including many in the higher ranks. Much of this has been the result of their laughable "jack in the box" death trap tanks. They are currently ducking and hiding, overwhelmed by artillery in Melitopol.[/QUOTE]I noticed they have almost complete control of Lugansk and Donetsk meathead.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719305] Ukrainian soldiers are fierce and well-motivated warriors defending their homeland, [/QUOTE]True, but they're marching into the meat grinder for delusional fools like you.

If it were Poland, there would be a line of Western men ready to fight.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719305]Gee, let me make it easy for you.

1. Ukraine's population is 40 million vs. Russia's 140 millions. Ukrainian soldiers are fierce and well-motivated warriors defending their homeland, while Russians are [I]contractnicks[/I] fighting for money. You do know that Putin calls it a "special military operation" (too scared to even call it a war). Until and unless they declare full mobilization, Russia simply doesn't have enough soldiers. Simple as that. They're already recruiting in jails and prisons.

2. If they do mobilize, that will be another disaster. Young Russian men don't want to go to war, no matter what they say in surveys. And why should they? Contractnicks at least get paid. They do get cheated, though, but still. So why should young conscripts get killed for free?

3. Modest Russian successes so far owe it exclusively to supreme, 20:1, Russia's artillery advantages. HIMARS have already changed this landscape. In the last few days, Ukrainians have destroyed at least 20 high-value targets including weapon, fuel depots and command centers. And there are many more to come. In the meantime, Russia has already used up most of its high-precision artillery, and the sanctions all but ensure they won't be able to replace them quickly enough.[/QUOTE]Please explain to me how Ukraine can win? This is very simple question. Again having half of your country completely destroyed and god knows how many lives will be lost, is not winning.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2719301]Nonsense. The primary aim is to support democracy in Europe in the face of the worst unprovoked aggression there since World War II. We are providing aid as we should, but the ultimate outcome is undetermined as much of it depends on the Ukrainians, who have a strong desire to fight to preserve their identity. It would be nice if they can drive the terrorists completely off their land, but more likely their efforts will strengthen their position at the negotiating table. Russia is suffering plenty, by sanctions and loss of life and equipment on the battlefield.

Whatever you call a "shit show" has improved the lives of Americans and our allies as terrorism directed at us has been greatly reduced. As to Russia, they've seen improvements in the past as the result of regime changes, plus a free Russia in the future isn't out of the question given that many of their young appreciate the Western way of life. But in any case, seeing that you feel so strongly about this, how many letters have you sent out to Republican congressmen and senators outlining your arguments? The overwhelming majority support Ukraine's war effort.

Once again regime change isn't the aim, though this would be nice if the Russian people take care of the problem themselves. And you have "zero way of knowing" if a Putin replacement might be less psychopathic and homicidal. In fact there's a good chance they would be. But this is another straw man as there's very little we can "know" about the future with certainty. Thus such never justifies inaction. Duh..[/QUOTE]Pauline you are crazy. Russia is not a threat to Europe, they can not even win in Ukraine. You Dem. Want to blame everything on Russia, it is your poor leadership and even worse policy. Russia is not too blame for everything.

You guys should be thanking Trump for saving the economy during the the pandemic, if he would have lockdown everything we would be in even bigger financial crisis. Yes, he is a bad guy, but he gets things done unlike your liberal buddies.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2719044]Unlike all these fucking Dems who have been lying about Putin for years[/QUOTE]This easily is the stupidest remark from your post, ass kissing a psycho dictator while enjoying American freedoms. The truth about that scumbag is plenty enough for anyone with a conscience and sense of humanity as he murders political opponents, jails those who disagree with him while attacking a sovereign country unprovoked, lies about Nazis when these are less than 2% of the Ukrainian population, whines about NATO when Eastern countries joined by their own volition, murders civilians, etc. He doesn't care about NATO anyway as he affirmed that he doesn't mind Finland and Sweden joining. He wants Ukraine's ports, farmlands, and industry plus empire in the bigger picture.

Plus the consensus in the US is overwhelming, as only the far right ass clown Repubs like Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene don't support Ukraine. Only 11 Repub senators dissented on the latest Ukraine aid package, which is a point you've ignored a dozen times. You don't even have the balls to acknowledge or even quote the fact as it overturns your whining that it's all about the Dems. No it's about democracy versus authoritarianism, and generally a minority of lowlifes that need to be placed on the sidelines in our politics.

[QUOTE=Riina;2719326]I noticed they have almost complete control of Lugansk and Donetsk meathead.[/QUOTE]Russia has had strong footings in those areas for eight years, but tucked and ran from Kyiv and Kharkiv, planning to take over Ukraine in less than a week but only have 10's of 1000's of dead soldiers (far more than they lost in nine years in Afghanistan) huge equipment loses, cripling sanctions, and marginal territorial gains to show for it. It's a disaster for them no matter what happens from here.

But look up Melitopol, Ruskies are hiding inside as Ukraine is making gains with their new artillery systems. Then if you can, try to come up with a conscience for your empty soul so you'll know who you should be supporting in this conflict.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321]You live in a dream world. [/QUOTE]Yeah, I live in a dream world! Again, Moscow and St. Petersburg aren't Russia. Real Russia is hurting, bleeding, losing job security, their savings and the roof over their heads. And it's going to become much worse before NEVER getting better.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321]Even CNN says the sanctions are not working, but you conveniently leave these details out. This is what happens when we back Ukraine and forget to produce oil. You are making Putin stronger and richer.[/QUOTE]I don't care what you or CNN are saying. Just 4 months into this shit, and Russia doesn't have the automotive industry anymore. That's just one industry. And the shit hasn't even hit the fan yet.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321]As I said, the Ukraine army as done a great job, but there is no way they can keep it up. This only happens in your Video Game, this is real life and war is horrible.[/QUOTE]Big empty words. You're just blaming the victim and want them to capitulate.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321]Then you have the crazy ass Pres. Z, claiming they will never negotiate. [/QUOTE]When did he claim that? Care to back this up?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321]In the next couple of weeks the CIA will pull him into a dark room and tell him come up with a solution or compromise. If refuses the support will begin to dwindle, this has to come to end.[/QUOTE]Right, and it's me who's living in a dream world? LOL.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2719321][b]All Ukraine had to do is behave[/b][/QUOTE]Here we go. No matter how hard you try, you can't hide those long-ass ears of a Russian shill.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10998887/Conscripts-given-call-papers-beaches-Ukraine.html[/URL]

Zelensky is running out of lemmings. Sign up. Stop a Russian bullet. Take up for Team Hunter Biden.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2719480][URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10998887/Conscripts-given-call-papers-beaches-Ukraine.html[/URL]

Zelensky is running out of lemmings. Sign up. Stop a Russian bullet. Take up for Team Hunter Biden.[/QUOTE]Pedrillo, you were not missed here. Why do you continue to post garbage "opinion" articles from garbage sources? Go get your two "expensive" morning drinks trying to prove yourself that you have done well in life.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2719403]This easily is the stupidest remark from your post, ass kissing a psycho dictator while enjoying American freedoms.[/QUOTE]Tell me about my freedoms again while you dumb Dems tried to say Putin was responsible for Trump winning and made up Russiagate, an attempt to throw out a Democratically elected leader. Then you all made up "Russian disinformation" and Hunter Biden's laptop. You talk all about freedom. Free to lie? Was the press free to tell the truth about Hunter Biden's laptop or was that banned right before the election?

Was Russiagate real Paulie? Was Hunter Biden's laptop Russian disinformation?

Here is Matt Taibbi: With censorship soaring and real reporting all but taboo, the major dailies have just one important function left: being a political signaling system.

On Monday, the New York Times ran a story pegged to a new poll, showing Joe Biden dragging a sub-Trumpish 33% approval rating into the midterms.

The article followed another from the weekend, "At 79, Biden Is Testing the Boundaries of Age and the Presidency. " That piece, about Biden's age code for "cognitive decline" was full of doom as well.

Biden's descent was obvious six years ago. Following the candidate in places like Nevada, Iowa, and New Hampshire, I listened to traveling press joke about his general lack of awareness and discuss new precautions his aides seemed to be taking to prevent him engaging audience members at events.

But I'd covered a much sharper Biden in 2008 and felt that even if the drain of overcoming a stutter had some effect, the problems were cognitive, not speech-related. He struggled to remember where he was and veered constantly into inappropriateness, challenging people physically, telling crazy-ass stories, and angering instantly.

End of quote.

It is amazing that someone somewhere just gave the okay to talk about Biden's age, and the press piles on. All that stuff about Biden's poor ability to speak? It was all stuttering. Nah, just kidding. He is losing his fucking mind. We just had to wait to his poll numbers were down.

As for your dumb Dem contention that Republican senators voted to aid Ukraine, the sad truth is that members of Congress always voted for war. Senators Biden and Clinton voted for the war in Iraq but I still blamed GW Bush for that, and those two voting for the war did not mean Democrats were for it. The same goes here. Most Republicans I know are dead set against this war. Thing is you dumb Dems have made it so that anyone who is anti-war is pro-Putin.

And you do not want Democracy and freedom. You want one party Democratic rule and the Soviet style press which we have.

Back to Taibbi:

Along with companion outlets like the Washington Post and The Atlantic (as pure a reflection of establishment thought as exists in America), the paper in this sense fulfills the same function that Izvestia once served in the Soviet Union, telling us little or even less than nothing about breaking news events ("Can NATO Long Exist?" was among Pravda's final questions in 1991) but giving us comprehensive, if often coded, portraits of the thinking of the leadership class.

Some freedom we have.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2719454]Yeah, I live in a dream world! Again, Moscow and St. Petersburg aren't Russia. Real Russia is hurting, bleeding, losing job security, their savings and the roof over their heads. And it's going to become much worse before NEVER getting better.

I don't care what you or CNN are saying. Just 4 months into this shit, and Russia doesn't have the automotive industry anymore. That's just one industry. And the shit hasn't even hit the fan yet.

[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.newsweek.com/moscow-shoppers-feel-far-less-pain-americans-ukraine-war-1715389[/URL]

And yet, after surviving early doomsday predictions about the potentially crippling effects of Western economic sanctions, Russian consumers are comparatively content with their present economic condition. Rather than sparking a widespread anti-Kremlin uprising, the moderate decline in the standard of living has resulted in minimal visible disruptions on the streets of Moscow.

While the exchange value of the national currency does not offer a full picture of the Russian economy's health, the Russian Central Bank's success in staving off a financial collapse that seemed imminent to many only three months ago helps explain why the economic mood in Moscow remains relatively upbeat.

[URL]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-consumer-prices-unchanged-three-163533737.html[/URL]

Russia's consumer price index was flat in the week to June 24, having declined for three weeks in a row after a massive spike in March, providing the central bank with room to cut rates to limit the economic downturn, data showed on Wednesday.

Yeah, we are really giving it to Russia good.

I said it before and I will say it again. When the Dems hear of a crisis, the first thing they do is slit our wrists economically to say that they care.

Of course after the climate change induced fiascos in Ghana, the Netherlands, and Sri Lanka, it may be time to give the Dems credit for fucking things up beyond even our borders.

Hi to my fellow mongers in these dark times.

Haven't been reading the forum for some time, but checked it out today and it seems that some people here has lost there brain. How you can support Russia's attack on Ukraine is beyond me (yes I know you don't say it right out but you don't hide it either). I have had a friend from Kiev at my place for 2 months until she went home again. And life there is also hard at the moment with high price on groceries and not much work. Of course the bombed places in Ukraine is the worst. Whole cities destroyed.

Am I shocked that Putin went to war? No. Surprised? Yes. In the 90's I travelled a lot in Poland and that country with the rest of Eastern Europa was shit scared of Putin. Because it never was a secret that Putin wants the old USSR back with all it's glory (well he think it was glory). But that he would actually attack a country was a bit of surprise.

Are some mongers here so in need for pussy that they think that Ukraine should just be a good puppy and lie down and die? It seems that some here think so. Or do you just hate Ukraine since it hasn't been good to you? I then recommend you to move to Russia and stay there. The sanctions is starting to take affect and it will only be worse for Russia as times moves on. When the rest of the world is against you it could be smart to stop and think. Hey, was starting a war with Ukraine a smart thing to do? Putin don't care. I just hope most Russians will come to their sences soon. No matter what happens in the future, Russia will have to pay a price for what they have done.

Stay safe!

The DPR have prepared the yard in which the three mercenary criminals (two British and one Moroccan) will be executed by firing squad. I think that is wrong as a firing squad should be for soldiers, not British, American and Moroccan criminals.

China should really engage more, send military advisors etc.

Europe, meanwhile, with Germany in the van, has committed economic suicide. Musta been a lot of Krauts on Orgy Island /.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2719658]The DPR have prepared the yard in which the three mercenary criminals .[/QUOTE]High time for a petition, to introduce death penalty for guilty parties in The Hague.

[QUOTE=TheMercySeat;2719610]
Haven't been reading the forum for some time, but checked it out today and it seems that some people here has lost there brain.

In the 90's I travelled a lot in Poland and that country with the rest of Eastern Europa was shit scared of Putin![/QUOTE]Shit scared of Putin? In the 90's?

Check your memory; find your brain.

[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2719787]High time for a petition, to introduce death penalty for guilty parties in The Hague.[/QUOTE]The Hague is only for Africans and Yugoslav patriots. The Nazi USA state has the Hague Invasion Act whereby they wil invade the Netherland if any of their own vermin face justice.

[QUOTE=TheMercySeat;2719610]Hi to my fellow mongers in these dark times. Stay safe![/QUOTE]These are not dark times. Maidan, which you attended was dark times. Nazi snipers, burning trade unionists to death in Odessa.

Here's an excerpt.

"But what Russia is doing in Ukraine—specifically what it did on Thursday in the city of Vinnytsia, and in many locations before that—demands to be seen. Because Russia is reserving its most sophisticated weapons to deliberately attack targets unrelated to any military goal, far from the battlefield, for the purpose of maximizing civilian deaths. All war is hell. People, both soldiers and civilians, suffer and die. But what Russia is doing in Ukraine isn't war. It's terrorism. ".

[URL]https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/14/2110299/-Russia-should-be-designated-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism-and-that-s-just-the-start[/URL]

With that I'm done here for a while so the Russia sympathizers / propaganda spreaders are free to pile on. It's summer. I'm planning a trip down south and have a load of work to do. Let the readers and especially the lurkers decide who has the more accurate and cogent arguments. That's actually who my posts are for, not the handful that have already made up their minds and aren't listening anyway.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2720038]Here's an excerpt.

"But what Russia is doing in Ukrainespecifically what it did on Thursday in the city of Vinnytsia, and in many locations before thatdemands to be seen. Because Russia is reserving its most sophisticated weapons to deliberately attack targets unrelated to any military goal, far from the battlefield, for the purpose of maximizing civilian deaths. All war is hell. People, both soldiers and civilians, suffer and die. But what Russia is doing in Ukraine isn't war. It's terrorism. ".

[URL]https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/14/2110299/-Russia-should-be-designated-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism-and-that-s-just-the-start[/URL]

With that I'm done here for a while so the Russia sympathizers / propaganda spreaders are free to pile on. It's summer. I'm planning a trip down south and have a load of work to do. Let the readers and especially the lurkers decide who has the more accurate and cogent arguments. That's actually who my posts are for, not the handful that have already made up their minds and aren't listening anyway.[/QUOTE]Russia is fucked. The HIMARS and other Western weapons have pretty much changed the war. In the last 2 weeks Ukraine armed forces has destroyed two dozens weapon and oil depots and command centers far behind the front lines in the East and South. And there is nothing Russians can do against them. HIMARS are working too good. And that's just 8 HIMARS and a few British GMLRS! Can you imagine when they get 40 or 50? Poor Merdo Immorales et al will have a seizure.

Since there is nothing that Russian (well Soviet) artillery can do on the battlefield, they're doing what they do best. Kill civilians. There is no high-precision weapons they can spare for strikes on residential areas anymore (those have been severely depleted). From what I'm seeing, they just fire old Soviet unguided munitions like howitzers and artillery rockets. The might even aim or claim to aim at military infrastructure targets, but they know they're killing civilians. There is no humanitarian law or treaty that Russia hasn't violated so far. There will be a hell to pay when the time comes.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720171]Since there is nothing that Russian (well Soviet) artillery can do on the battlefield, they're doing what they do best. Kill civilians. There is no high-precision weapons they can spare for strikes on residential areas anymore (those have been severely depleted). From what I'm seeing, they just fire old Soviet unguided munitions like howitzers and artillery rockets. The might even aim or claim to aim at military infrastructure targets, but they know they're killing civilians. There is no humanitarian law or treaty that Russia hasn't violated so far. There will be a hell to pay when the time comes.[/QUOTE]Ruskie military doctrine is very simple and easy to understand. If the enemy doesn't roll over and surrender? Then just level the place!

[QUOTE=TheCane;2720182]Ruskie military doctrine is very simple and easy to understand. If the enemy doesn't roll over and surrender? Then just level the place![/QUOTE]Exactly, but the liberals do not understand this. Just like producing massive amounts of oil would bring down inflation, and bring Putin to his knees. This is common sense, but they would rather throw money and weapons at the war, all this does is keep the conflict going and now Russ is winning, indirectly. Putin can careless about collateral damage.

Ukraine looses either way, but there government is too stupid to realize this. So sad!!

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2719872]Shit scared of Putin? In the 90's?

Check your memory; find your brain.[/QUOTE]I guess you think about that Putin didn't become president until after 2000. Well he was on the seen before that as Boris Jeltsin man to be. He thought he would follow his path further. Little did he know that Putin tricket him and only agreed to come in power. Jeltsin admitted his mistake very soon after Putin come to power. Other people has always known that Putin was a hardcore KGB man with his own agenda before he came president. This scared people.

The real problem now is that Russia is fucket even if they win this war. Now that they have shown their true face not many countries will have anything to do about them. China might help but it won't be enough for all the loss of BNP that they will have. The standard of living will get worse with time and it will be interesting to see how the russian people will react on the longterm effects.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2720182]Ruskie military doctrine is very simple and easy to understand. If the enemy doesn't roll over and surrender? Then just level the place![/QUOTE]Yes, you're right but with a qualification: if they can.

What we're seeing today in Ukraine is that Russians are having a severe shortage of munitions. And not just high-precision artillery, but regular, old-school Soviet munitions as well. They are forced to fire S300 surface-to-air missiles against land targets. In the meantime, Ukrainians have received high-precision HIMARS and other similar weapons that have allowed them to destroy 2 dozens of high-value Russian targets deep behind the front lines in less than 2 weeks. Also consider this:

1. No one has ever won a war against the whole world.

2. Russians are already forced to take smart chips out of washing machines to use in their artillery.

3. Ukraine has said they've already received longer-range, (up to 300 km), weapons. This is a death sentence to Russian logistics (the ones they received before have the range of 80 km).

4. Russians will keep targeting civilians in attempt to instill a steep price for Ukraine to continue fighting. That's futile. Ukraine will keep fighting because they're smart enough to know they don't have another option. Putin CAN NOT be trusted.

5. I don't believe that Putin and his cronies will resort to using nuclear weapons, BUT.

6. The domestic political situation in Russia will worsen to the point of no return within a year or two, and then anything can happen. The final fall of the Russian Empire will be much bloodier and catastrophic than the collapse of the USSR.

It is what it is. Ukraine didn't start it. The West didn't start it. Putin started it to his own (and his country) detriment.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720438]Yes, you're right but with a qualification: if they can.

What we're seeing today in Ukraine is that Russians are having a severe shortage of munitions. And not just high-precision artillery, but regular, old-school Soviet munitions as well. They are forced to fire S300 surface-to-air missiles against land targets. In the meantime, Ukrainians have received high-precision HIMARS and other similar weapons that have allowed them to destroy 2 dozens of high-value Russian targets deep behind the front lines in less than 2 weeks. Also consider this:

1. No one has ever won a war against the whole world.

2. Russians are already forced to take smart chips out of washing machines to use in their artillery.

3. Ukraine has said they've already received longer-range, (up to 300 km), weapons. This is a death sentence to Russian logistics (the ones they received before have the range of 80 km).

4. Russians will keep targeting civilians in attempt to instill a steep price for Ukraine to continue fighting. That's futile. Ukraine will keep fighting because they're smart enough to know they don't have another option. Putin CAN NOT be trusted.

5. I don't believe that Putin and his cronies will resort to using nuclear weapons, BUT.

6. The domestic political situation in Russia will worsen to the point of no return within a year or two, and then anything can happen. The final fall of the Russian Empire will be much bloodier and catastrophic than the collapse of the USSR.

It is what it is. Ukraine didn't start it. The West didn't start it. Putin started it to his own (and his country) detriment.[/QUOTE]You are completely delusional. Stop watching CNN.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2719872]Shit scared of Putin? In the 90's?

Check your memory; find your brain.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheMercySeat;2720363]I guess you think about that Putin didn't become president until after 2000. Well he was on the seen before that as Boris Jeltsin man to be. He thought he would follow his path further. Little did he know that Putin tricket him and only agreed to come in power. Jeltsin admitted his mistake very soon after Putin come to power. Other people has always known that Putin was a hardcore KGB man with his own agenda before he came president. This scared people.[/QUOTE]When somebody does what Golfinho just did with you, a kill shot, the best move is to not post and come back and spread your bullshit with a different name. You were caught lying. The best move you could have made was say, "Oh, I got the timing wrong. My bad. " Instead, you just dug yourself in deeper by following up your first lie with a second one.

Now do the predictable and attack me. Just stop it. Come back to the discussion with another name. Mercy Seat now means liar.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720438]5. I don't believe that Putin and his cronies will resort to using nuclear weapons[/QUOTE]What does "I do not believe" mean percentage wise? 10%? 20%? If it is anything other than a zero or a hair above that, you are out of your effing mind.

[QUOTE=TheMercySeat;2720363]The standard of living will get worse with time and it will be interesting to see how the russian people will react on the longterm effects.[/QUOTE]Sadly for the average Russian, many will just wallow in vodka and pass on at an early age.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2720648]Sadly for the average Russian, many will just wallow in vodka and pass on at an early age.[/QUOTE]Alcoholism is way down and life expectancy way up (but not FR Ukrainian Nazi soldiers) since Putin took over. Take your Nazi talk back to Hamburger land.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2720514]What does "I do not believe" mean percentage wise? 10%? 20%? If it is anything other than a zero or a hair above that, you are out of your effing mind.[/QUOTE]If Putin starts losing or we escalate, he will definitely not stop. He will do what it takes to win. Pauline and Exman are to stupid to realize this, but these guys do not want to negotiate. Great strategy, everyone loses, but the arms dealers and producers.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2720648]Sadly for the average Russian, many will just wallow in vodka and pass on at an early age.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2720672]Alcoholism is way down and life expectancy way up (but not FR Ukrainian Nazi soldiers) since Putin took over. Take your Nazi talk back to Hamburger land.[/QUOTE]Wow, Merdo isn't lying this time. I know, hard to believe, but true. Life expectancy in Russia is way up compared to 2000's, and the alcohol consumption is down (mainly due to the drug-replacement 'therapy', LOL). It needs to be remembered, however, that Russia holds 103rd place in the world, between Libya and Bangladesh, and besides, all-blown wars historically don't do well for life expectancy.

[URL]https://www.infoplease.com/world/health-and-social-statistics/life-expectancy-by-country[/URL]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2720514]What does "I do not believe" mean percentage wise? 10%? 20%? If it is anything other than a zero or a hair above that, you are out of your effing mind.[/QUOTE]Poor Elvis! Do you really believe that we have ever EVER had a zero percent chance of a nuclear war breaking out since July 1945? Please try not to go into the full panic mode, but since the genie got out of the bottle, there hasn't been a single week, day or hour when the chance of a nuclear war was exactly zero.

Now let me explain something to you step by step, just promise not to cry, OK?

The only thing that makes our peaceful lives possible is the MAD doctrine (look it up, I'm not Wiki).

This doctrine has been accepted by all nuclear actors in the world, no matter how bad they were: even Stalin and Mao bad.

Now we have Putin who decides that MAD isn't relevant anymore. That the world can be threatened into submission when he or his agitators are flexing a nuclear muscle. That he can simply bluff his way into making the world do his bidding.

Well, we have nothing without MAD. If MAD doesn't exist anymore, nothing will stop China, India, Pakistan, or North Korea (or Russia again) to get into the game too. And other nations will quadruple their efforts to get such a wonderful ultimate bluffing machine.

All of us who spent their childhoods in a non-white-collar environments know what happens when you capitulate to a bully.

He never stops.

Give him your lunch money, and he'll come for more.

Give Donbass to Putin, and he'll come for the rest of Ukraine.

Give him Ukraine, and he'll come for the Baltic states.

Give him the Baltics, and he'll come for Poland, Czechia and the rest of Eastern Europe.

At some point, you'll have to stop and fight anyway, but we'll be fighting an emboldened and better prepared enemy.

Right now, Ukraine is fighting for us. It's willing to pay with their own blood and it's a huge bargain for us in America and Europe to pay for this fight in money and weaponry rather than our own blood. We must give them everything they need.

And whoever doesn't get a simple fact that Putin must be stopped NOW is either a moron, a traitor, or both.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]Poor Elvis! Do you really believe that we have ever EVER had a zero percent chance of a nuclear war breaking out since July 1945?[/QUOTE]LOL. Are we talking about my beliefs or yours? You are the one who said I do not believe this proxy war in Ukraine will result in nuclear war. So to clarify, and I should not have to do this except you are such a lunkhead, what percentage does this war in Ukraine add to the chances of nuclear war between us and Russia in your belief?

And no, I do not expect an answer. Your patronizing non-answer answer was to be expected. My question was just to show what an incredibly stupid statement you made. The only reason to risk nuclear war is if our way of life is in imminent danger and saying "I do not believe the risk of nuclear war is increased" is an incredibly arrogant, dangerous, and flippant statement but again, I expect that from you.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]Now we have Putin who decides that MAD isn't relevant anymore. That the world can be threatened into submission when he or his agitators are flexing a nuclear muscle. That he can simply bluff his way into making the world do his bidding.[/QUOTE]WTF are you talking about? Does Ukraine have nuclear weapons? If they do not, then MAD does not apply. Furthermore, if Putin thinks MAD is not relevant and I assume you are saying he is likely to use nuclear weapons, then why has he not? More to the point, you keep saying Ukraine is going to win? How do they win if Russia uses nukes?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]Well, we have nothing without MAD. If MAD doesn't exist anymore, nothing will stop China, India, Pakistan, or North Korea (or Russia again) to get into the game too. And other nations will quadruple their efforts to get such a wonderful ultimate bluffing machine.[/QUOTE]So your solution is what? We nuke those countries before they nuke us? Are you out of your fucking mind?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]All of us who spent their childhoods in a non-white-collar environments know what happens when you capitulate to a bully.

He never stops.

Give him your lunch money, and he'll come for more.[/QUOTE]Well, then it makes little sense to provoke the bully. And when you had your non-white-collar fights, did both sides have nuclear weapons? Or believe they did? That would make the most sense. Did you grow up in a mental institution? Seriously?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]And whoever doesn't get a simple fact that Putin must be stopped NOW is either a moron, a traitor, or both.[/QUOTE]Well, then I suggest you enlist in the fight in Ukraine. But a better suggestion would be to take your dog for a walk, turn off MSNBC and get back on your meds.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720876]

Right now, Ukraine is fighting for us.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians are fighting for us? I guess us is a pussy.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2720868]Wow, Merdo isn't lying this time. I know, hard to believe, but true. Life expectancy in Russia is way up compared to 2000's, and the alcohol consumption is down (mainly due to the drug-replacement 'therapy', LOL). It needs to be remembered, however, that Russia holds 103rd place in the world, between Libya and Bangladesh, and besides, all-blown wars historically don't do well for life expectancy.

[URL]https://www.infoplease.com/world/health-and-social-statistics/life-expectancy-by-country[/URL][/QUOTE]XMan are you producer for CNN or MSNBC, you are so wrong. You and a few people that watch these Networks would believe this crap. If you have traveled to Russia you would know this.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2720901]LOL. Are we talking about my beliefs or yours? You are the one who said I do not believe this proxy war in Ukraine will result in nuclear war. So to clarify, and I should not have to do this except you are such a lunkhead, what percentage does this war in Ukraine add to the chances of nuclear war between us and Russia in your belief?

And no, I do not expect an answer. Your patronizing non-answer answer was to be expected. My question was just to show what an incredibly stupid statement you made. The only reason to risk nuclear war is if our way of life is in imminent danger and saying "I do not believe the risk of nuclear war is increased" is an incredibly arrogant, dangerous, and flippant statement but again, I expect that from you.

WTF are you talking about? Does Ukraine have nuclear weapons? If they do not, then MAD does not apply. Furthermore, if Putin thinks MAD is not relevant and I assume you are saying he is likely to use nuclear weapons, then why has he not? More to the point, you keep saying Ukraine is going to win? How do they win if Russia uses nukes?

So your solution is what? We nuke those countries before they nuke us? Are you out of your fucking mind?

Well, then it makes little sense to provoke the bully. And when you had your non-white-collar fights, did both sides have nuclear weapons? Or believe they did? That would make the most sense. Did you grow up in a mental institution? Seriously?.[/QUOTE]Elvis, XMan just makes shit up. I doubt he has been to either place.

[QUOTE=Riina;2720935]Ukrainians are fighting for us? I guess us is a pussy.[/QUOTE]They are destroying there country and the world economy. Negotiate before it is too late.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2720986]Negotiate before it is too late.[/QUOTE]Submit before it is too late.

[QUOTE=Riina;2720935]Ukrainians are fighting for us? I guess us is a pussy.[/QUOTE]Well, Paulie and Xpartan and all the other Democratic hacks are. I voted for Trump not the war mongerer.

But I will support Putin and Xpartan when they join the cause. Hey, Xpartan, Paulie, when you enlist to fight, let me know where you are stationed, and I will send you a case of soup. You guys like Chicken noodle?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2720981]Elvis, XMan just makes shit up. I doubt he has been to either place.[/QUOTE]Yeah, he is on the side of Israel. Russia helps Syria and that is why Xpartan hates Russia. It is got nothing to do with what is in the USA's best interests.

So with Xpartan, if we risk the odds of nuclear war going up by 10% and it helps Israel, that is worth the gamble which shows you he is not an American first.

Have at it, who gives a shit, LOL.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2720513]When somebody does what Golfinho just did with you, a kill shot, the best move is to not post and come back and spread your bullshit with a different name. You were caught lying. The best move you could have made was say, "Oh, I got the timing wrong. My bad. " Instead, you just dug yourself in deeper by following up your first lie with a second one.

Now do the predictable and attack me. Just stop it. Come back to the discussion with another name. Mercy Seat now means liar.[/QUOTE]Nope. Here is what means liar.

Condoms don't work for STDs. That's a work of a liar.

Condoms don't work for STDs and here is a fresh article that confirms that condoms don't work for STDs -- while that article is 20-year old and confirms nothing. That's a sign of a liar.

You lie consistently and with gusto trying to overwhelm your opponents with your long-winded, mad, crackpot posts accompanied by articles that are either as crackpot as you are or have nothing to do with the issue at hand. That's a stamp of a liar.

"Putin in the 90's" is not a lie, it's an honest mistake that doesn't negate anything else Mercy Seat said.

But clinging to every typo, misspell and innocent error of your opponent is exactly what liars do. What you do, Elvis.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2721076]Nope. Here is what means liar.

Condoms don't work for STDs. That's a work of a liar.

Condoms don't work for STDs and here is a fresh article that confirms that condoms don't work for STDs -- while that article is 20-year old and confirms nothing. That's a sign of a liar.[/QUOTE]LOL. I do not think anyone wants to debate condoms here. And I have to admit your article, which does not exist and you did not link, ranks up there with all of your other proof.

And how am I lying if I link evidence to support my POV? Or is that the technique you use on Palestinians? You are lying! Your links are no good! Only Israeli links count!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2721076]You lie consistently and with gusto trying to overwhelm your opponents with your long-winded, mad, crackpot posts accompanied by articles that are either as crackpot as you are or have nothing to do with the issue at hand.[/QUOTE]Oh no, I think condoms are really relevant to this discussion / sarc.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2721076]"Putin in the 90's" is not a lie, it's an honest mistake that doesn't negate anything else Mercy Seat said.
[/QUOTE]Mercy Seat did not correct anything. MS said that the Europeans were in fact afraid of Putin and his expansionary plans in the 90's. So you are lying about MS lying. MS's position is so crazy though you want to change the facts to agree with him though.

I am shocked, shocked you did not answer my questions. Take my advice. Turn off the TV, Go walk your dog, get back on your meds, and quit arguing for war.

[QUOTE=Riina;2721035]Submit before it is too late.[/QUOTE]You were delusional before the war, why change now. We're is your loser friend Photo Sl? he is even more whacked out then you and Rog.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2721159]You were delusional before the war, why change now. We're is your loser friend Photo Sl? he is even more whacked out then you and Rog.[/QUOTE]I talked about pussy and crooked Ukrainians in the past, but was disturbed by the propaganda here to March beautiful young men to their death.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2721133] so crazy though you want to change the facts to agree with him though.
I am shocked, shocked you did not answer my questions. Take my advice. Turn off the TV, Go walk your dog, get back on your meds, and quit arguing for war.[/QUOTE]To that character, it must be explained at his level of understanding.

[URL]https://youtu.be/3_hjzrhWkzs[/URL]

Some 300 Nazis of the Black Hundred group hiding in a school in the city of Kramatros were blasted into eternity by the Russian Armed Forces. More meat to go around.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2722913]Some 300 Nazis of the Black Hundred group hiding in a school in the city of Kramatros were blasted into eternity by the Russian Armed Forces. More meat to go around.[/QUOTE]1. Russian fascists destroyed a school, killing at least 3 people and wounding scores more.

2. The Black Hundred was an anti-Semitic paramilitary organization in Tsarist Russia that organized hundreds of Jewish pogroms from late 1800's to early 1900's. It was tacitly supported by the so-called Okhranka -- Russia's Security Service back then. The Black Hundred doesn't exist anymore, whether in Russia or Ukraine. In other words, our brazenly open [B]anti-Semite Merdo is using the name of a defunct anti-Semitic armed formation[/B] to advance his hateful anti-Ukrainian narrative. Oh the irony.

3. The lie about 300 Nazis in Kramatorsk was disseminated by the Russia's ministry of defense after their missiles yet again destroyed a civilian building, although even they didn't use the words Nazis or Black Hundred in their press-release. That's Merdo's own contribution to his personal Russia's war effort.

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/22/russia-strikes-school-kramatorsky-donetsk-ukraine-reports[/URL]

I'm guessing two weeks before the Russians are at the river.

Despite signing a grain export deal yesterday, Russia hit the port of Odessa with two missiles (a few other missiles were downed by the Ukraine air defense system).

Attacking Odessa ports used for grain export is a direct violation of the deal.

Why, oh why no one in their sound mind can trust anything Russia says and anything it signs?

Got to be russophobia, what else can it be?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2723381]Despite signing a grain export deal yesterday, Russia hit the port of Odessa with two missiles (a few other missiles were downed by the Ukraine air defense system).

Attacking Odessa ports used for grain export is a direct violation of the deal.

Why, oh why no one in their sound mind can trust anything Russia says and anything it signs?

Got to be russophobia, what else can it be?[/QUOTE]Go away with your ignorant trolling. You have not read two bilateral agreements. Moreover, you have no stake in the conflict. Without folks like yourself there would have never even been such a conflict. Everything your country touches turns into rot and death. Go away.

[QUOTE=Questner;2723404]Go away with your ignorant trolling. You have not read two bilateral agreements. Moreover, you have no stake in the conflict. Without folks like yourself there would have never even been such a conflict. Everything your country touches turns into rot and death. Go away.[/QUOTE]Exactly he is idiot. He hates everything. War is Hell, but he does not want to negotiate.

[QUOTE=Questner;2723404]Go away with your ignorant trolling. You have not read two bilateral agreements. Moreover, you have no stake in the conflict. Without folks like yourself there would have never even been such a conflict. Everything your country touches turns into rot and death. Go away.[/QUOTE]You go away twerp. This is a decades long, long established American owned website forum from the early 1990's until now. You wouldn't have a place to post your Russo propping rubbish if not for us and our principles of free speech. These are the same principles Central and Eastern Europe want as opposed to the dark world of Putin and what they suffered under the USSR. Move to Russia and run your mouth in anyway outside the parameters of govt propaganda and spend 15 years breaking rocks in Siberia.

P.S. Russia has been breaking agreements all along, is why they call this war a "special military operation." And yes bombing port cities is at odds with the grain agreement. That's not to mention the war crimes involved with the targeting and executing of civilians as well as deportations and modern day concentration camps.

[QUOTE=Questner;2723404]Go away with your ignorant trolling. You have not read two bilateral agreements. Moreover, you have no stake in the conflict. Without folks like yourself there would have never even been such a conflict. Everything your country touches turns into rot and death. Go away.[/QUOTE]Well said. There are a group of spammers here, either paid by Israel or just dumb as American Democrats (think of all the wars they have foisted on us). They are here to defend actual Nazis and to pretend Odessa is an open city. Ukrainian soldiers are being slaughtered because of these criminals.

[URL]https://cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/what-makes-biden-so-pugnacious[/URL]

When Russian President Vladimir Putin built up forces outside Ukraine and asked repeatedly for assurances that Ukraine would not be brought into NATO, an alliance aimed at Russia, the Biden administration refused.

The February invasion followed, and among Biden's subsequent threats, his call for the removal of Putin was virtually declared a war aim.

I like the Australian journalist who said that Americans like Biden do not give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

We saw the real reason for this war last week.

[URL]https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-great-american-military-rebrand?r=5mz1&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web[/URL]

Fast forward to last week. As January 6th hearings, a presidential fist-bump, and a Kardashian spawn's gender reveal gobbled attention, the House quietly passed a monster $839 billion defense package. It was "the definition of a bipartisan bill," chirped Alabama's Mike Rogers, as 180 Democrats and 149 Republicans joined to smash by tens of billions previous records for military spending. With this already underreported story, just one news outlet, Roll Call, described a "first of its kind" report published by the Department of Defense Comptroller's office, which revealed at least $58 billion of "congressional additions" above Joe Biden's budget request.

Both the triumphant return of the earmark and the enormous defense hike should have been big stories. To put $58 billion (at least) in defense "increases" in context, the amount of overall federal earmarks in 2006, the infamous year that prompted so much outrage, was said to be $26 billion. Meanwhile Biden's one-year arms increase exceeds the pace of Donald Trump's infamous $200 billion collective defense hike between 2017-2019. These are major surges past the levels of both pork and weapons spending that had progressives roaring for "change," yet there's almost zero outcry now. Why?

So war is good again.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2723435]This is a decades long, long established American owned website forum from the early 1990's until now. You wouldn't have a place to post your Russo propping rubbish if not for us and our principles of free speech.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure the servers here are in eastern Europe. I guess we're not free enough.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2723430]Exactly he is idiot. He hates everything. War is Hell, but he does not want to negotiate.[/QUOTE]My mistake was to reply to BM on my own Ignore list as I scrolled without prior logging in. At least 'stupid' threads may allow to post opinions with less risk of being deleted by a moderator.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2723435]You go away twerp. This is a decades long, long established American owned website forum from the early 1990's until now. You wouldn't have a place to post your Russo propping rubbish if not for us and our principles of free speech. These are the same principles Central and Eastern Europe want as opposed to the dark world of Putin and what they suffered under the USSR. Move to Russia and run your mouth in anyway outside the parameters of govt propaganda and spend 15 years breaking rocks in Siberia.

P.S. Russia has been breaking agreements all along, is why they call this war a "special military operation." And yes bombing port cities is at odds with the grain agreement. That's not to mention the war crimes involved with the targeting and executing of civilians as well as deportations and modern day concentration camps.[/QUOTE]You poor, deluded thing. What color's the sky where you are?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2723664][URL]https://cnsnews.com/commentary/patrick-j-buchanan/what-makes-biden-so-pugnacious[/URL]

When Russian President Vladimir Putin built up forces outside Ukraine and asked repeatedly for assurances that Ukraine would not be brought into NATO, an alliance aimed at Russia, the Biden administration refused.

The February invasion followed, and among Biden's subsequent threats, his call for the removal of Putin was virtually declared a war aim.

I like the Australian journalist who said that Americans like Biden do not give a damn about the Ukrainian people.

We saw the real reason for this war last week.

[URL]https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-great-american-military-rebrand?r=5mz1&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web[/URL]

Fast forward to last week. As January 6th hearings, a presidential fist-bump, and a Kardashian spawn's gender reveal gobbled attention, the House quietly passed a monster $839 billion defense package. It was "the definition of a bipartisan bill," chirped Alabama's Mike Rogers, as 180 Democrats and 149 Republicans joined to smash by tens of billions previous records for military spending. With this already underreported story, just one news outlet, Roll Call, described a "first of its kind" report published by the Department of Defense Comptroller's office, which revealed at least $58 billion of "congressional additions" above Joe Biden's budget request.

Both the triumphant return of the earmark and the enormous defense hike should have been big stories. To put $58 billion (at least) in defense "increases" in context, the amount of overall federal earmarks in 2006, the infamous year that prompted so much outrage, was said to be $26 billion. Meanwhile Biden's one-year arms increase exceeds the pace of Donald Trump's infamous $200 billion collective defense hike between 2017-2019. These are major surges past the levels of both pork and weapons spending that had progressives roaring for "change," yet there's almost zero outcry now. Why?

So war is good again.[/QUOTE]Why Ukraine would risk everything over joining a corrupt organization,(NAtO), beats me. They can have NATO, we should pull out, let Ukraine have NATO. Ukraine Government and NATO are a match made in heaven, they deserve each other.

Ukraine government should have been focused on fixing their own corruption and finding common ground with Putin, too easy.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2723534]Well said. There are a group of spammers here, either paid by Israel or just dumb as American Democrats (think of all the wars they have foisted on us). [/QUOTE]So folks, what are we getting here?

[QUOTE]Tu quoque (Latin Tū quoque, for "you also") is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack. The Oxford English Dictionary cites John Cooke's 1614 stage play The Cittie Gallant as the earliest use of the term in the English language. "Whataboutism" is one particularly well known modern instance of this technique.

Whataboutism or whataboutery denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the Tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the Ad-hominem argument.[/QUOTE]Easy-peasy.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2723534]Well said. There are a group of spammers here, either paid by Israel or just dumb as American Democrats (think of all the wars they have foisted on us). They are here to defend actual Nazis and to pretend Odessa is an open city. Ukrainian soldiers are being slaughtered because of these criminals.[/QUOTE]So what happens when the most despicable Russian shill Merdo Immorales gets caught on 3 vicious lies.

He finds nothing better to do but accuse me of a) getting paid by Israel or b) being a dumb American Democrat.

Well, folks, I must say: Dumbo, pardon me, Merdo didn't think it through (well, he never does).

If he did, he would ask himself or some father figure like Golfinho or Elvis, why the state of Israel would pay me to tarnish (LOL) that impeccable reputation of Russia and its Eternal Leader. Israel works harder than ever to maintain good relationship with Russia (which, unfortunately, can't be helped considering Middle East's geopolitical realities).

I mean, why Israel? Maybe I'm getting paid by America, UK, EU, Japan, Australia, or the United Federation of the Terra Excelsior Republic (yeah, look it up)?

But no, it's got to be Israel. Just like Merdo has got to be Merdo.

As for being a dumb American Democrat, that won't fly either. Americans disgust for Putin and his war is bipartisan. Remember these beautiful American HIMARS that Ukrainians have been using to blow Russian arms and fuel depots to high heaven? That's what bipartisan means. Land lease. Yeah, baby.

I mean, there aren't many deviants like you, Drama Queen, Golfinho or Elvis. Seriously. I know you go to forums and people like you are everywhere, but that's only because you guys are scared of sunlight, LOL.

The thing is, unlike you, I can't be completely sure that you're a paid shill for Russia. I mean, you talk like a paid shill, walk like a paid shill, quack like a paid shill, but are you a paid shill? I just don't have the facts.

You may be a fascist. Or a Nazi. There is a difference, like between HIV and AIDS. In that case, your adoration of Putin is natural. Organic even.

Or you may be a sadist deriving pleasure every time Ukrainian men, women and children are murdered.

Or you may be both.

Or you may be a sadistic fascist paid shill -- who says you can't take pleasure from your job, right?

Zig heil, tovarisch.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2723664]When Russian President Vladimir Putin built up forces outside Ukraine and asked repeatedly for assurances that Ukraine would not be brought into NATO, an alliance aimed at Russia, the Biden administration refused[/QUOTE]This continues to be a massive oversimplification to shoe horn into a narrative. Before the Ukraine invasion, I think NATO members were either looking to wind down or at a minimum redirect their focus away from the East.

In any event, was NATO really a direct threat to Russia or was it actually a threat to Russia's ability to try to reassemble parts of the Russian empire? We also have the Russian military continually encroaching on their neighbors' territory throughout the 2000's. If the Russians aren't stepping over borders, they are meddling in their neighbors' politics.

Let's pack all the baggage, shall we.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2723938]Why Ukraine would risk everything over joining a corrupt organization,(NAtO), beats me. They can have NATO, we should pull out, let Ukraine have NATO. Ukraine Government and NATO are a match made in heaven, they deserve each other.

Ukraine government should have been focused on fixing their own corruption and finding common ground with Putin, too easy.[/QUOTE]DF, only thing I can think of is the Ukrainians at the top were looking to cash in on USA Aid. Glenn Greenwald had someone on his podcast who said the USA defense contractors used Afghanistan to launder money and that is gone now. Now I guess they will use Ukraine. The money being thrown at the defense industry now is fucking nuts.

Yeah, I want out of NATO too. What return do we get on our investment? Russia is a joke. China is the real threat.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2724397]This continues to be a massive oversimplification to shoe horn into a narrative. Before the Ukraine invasion, I think NATO members were either looking to wind down or at a minimum redirect their focus away from the East.

In any event, was NATO really a direct threat to Russia or was it actually a threat to Russia's ability to try to reassemble parts of the Russian empire? We also have the Russian military continually encroaching on their neighbors' territory throughout the 2000's. If the Russians aren't stepping over borders, they are meddling in their neighbors' politics.

Let's pack all the baggage, shall we.[/QUOTE]Precisely! The reason Ukrainians want to join NATO is the same reason why all former Russia's vassals wanted to be in NATO -- to get protected from the Evil Empire. Nothing more, nothing less.

How many times after the WW2 the Russian Army has marched on? Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Poland, Chechnya (that was an internal and controversial affair, but still), Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine.

8 years ago when he attacked Ukraine for the first time, it would've been easy to stop him. Our collective weakness has turned Putin into a mad lunatic. Now we're having what we're having -- all blown war. I can only hope we don't give up again.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2724486]Yeah, I want out of NATO too. What return do we get on our investment? Russia is a joke. China is the real threat.[/QUOTE]I agree with this to some extent. The Europeans clearly have the wherewithal to defend themselves and tend to their corner of the world. The Europeans should take primary ownership of NATO.

I think the real reason the USA Still maintains a European presence is that NATO has given our leaders a continuing excuse to maintain a large, standing army abroad. As you seem to believe, Putin might feel threatened by NATO but the current purpose of USA Troops in Europe is to have a standby army near the oil fields of the Mideast. The USA Army in Europe could possibly be re-positioned later in the Asia Pacific region.

I don't know what historical global strategist first said that the problem with a large, standing army is that you tend to want to use it. This has certainly been the United States' failing.

You might not notice, but I don't care for black & white narratives in global analysis. I almost always find it is too simplistic and is used to reach a preconceived perspective. I'm also not one of these guys thinking the Ukraine is easily going to run Russia out, trigger the end of the Putin regime and it will be a great ending to the conflict.

Elderly flee press gangs.

Ukrainian nursing home operators are reporting a surge in walk-offs due to elders' fears that Zelensky's increasingly desperate recruiting efforts will target them next.

75-year-old retiree Cadger Starets, who recently went AWOL from the Kladovyshche Nursing Home in Kiev, explained during an interview at an undisclosed location: "They're already grabbing 50-year-olds off the streets, beaches, shopping malls, 'checkpoints, gas stations and other public places. ' Looks like they're coming for us next. ".

Specifically, Zelensky said, old folks who are wheelchair-bound or severely mobility-impaired will be exempt. Those using walkers or canes, however, may still be drafted, as well as those unable to control excretory functions: "All of our troops lose control of excretory functions during Russian artillery strikes, so that shouldn't be an issue. " Likewise, dementia will not be an obstacle to induction to military service: "If it doesn't stop you from being president of the United States, it shouldn't stop you from dying on the front lines of a stupid, utterly unnecessary war. "

[URL]https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/07/26/zelenskys-conscription-now-targeting-nursing-homes/[/URL]

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2724397]This continues to be a massive oversimplification to shoe horn into a narrative. Before the Ukraine invasion, I think NATO members were either looking to wind down or at a minimum redirect their focus away from the East.

In any event, was NATO really a direct threat to Russia or was it actually a threat to Russia's ability to try to reassemble parts of the Russian empire? We also have the Russian military continually encroaching on their neighbors' territory throughout the 2000's. If the Russians aren't stepping over borders, they are meddling in their neighbors' politics.

Let's pack all the baggage, shall we.[/QUOTE]It's just a rehash of Russian propaganda that Elvis was spoonfed watching Tucker Carlson. He's regurgitating it here and isn't capable of anything more. For one thing Biden lacks the authority to exclude any European country from ever joining NATO as this is against the provisions of the treaty and open door policy. Any Euro nation can seek membership, and it comes down to qualifications, not what a tyrant demands. To even begin to try and yield to such nonsense would set a horrible precedent. The demands would keep coming.

The bottom line is that Russia needed reasons for the invasion to spin in their media, so they created a "crisis" with this demand they knew would be rejected. The bottom line though is exactly what you said, they are out to rebuild empire, and especially want the valuable Ukrainian industries, farmlands, and sea ports. This while they specifically stated they aren't concerned about Finland joining the alliance, a country they share a 1340 Km border with.

Ukrainian nursing home operators are reporting a surge in walk-offs due to elders' fears that Zelensky's increasingly desperate recruiting efforts will target them next.

75-year-old retiree Cadger Starets, who recently went AWOL from the Kladovyshche Nursing Home in Kiev, explained during an interview at an undisclosed location: "They're already grabbing 50-year-olds off the streets, beaches, shopping malls, 'checkpoints, gas stations and other public places. ' Looks like they're coming for us next. ".

Ukrainian President Vlodomyr Zelensky denied reports that militarily unfit old people are next in line for the press gang treatment. "We understand that some nursing home residents have severe disabilities that prevent them from firing heavy artillery for a few minutes until they are blown up," the heroic piano-playing president intoned. "Our recruiters have been trained to identify those cases and exempt them from military service. Only fully able, fit, militarily-trainable decrepit old farts will be forcibly inducted and sent to the front lines. ".

Specifically, Zelensky said, old folks who are wheelchair-bound or severely mobility-impaired will be exempt. Those using walkers or canes, however, may still be drafted, as well as those unable to control excretory functions: "All of our troops lose control of excretory functions during Russian artillery strikes, so that shouldn't be an issue. " Likewise, dementia will not be an obstacle to induction: "If it doesn't stop you from being president of the United States, it shouldn't stop you from dying on the front lines of a stupid, utterly unnecessary war. ".

Zelensky added that his sugar daddy Igor Kolomoyskyi, who turns 60 next February, works in an essential industry, organized crime, and will therefore be granted a draft exemption. . .

Comments: Good way to solve the pension shortfall crisis! Send draft notices to all social security recipients then ship them off to the trenches to face the Russian artillery barrages! LOL.

It's time to torpedo another piece of Russo propaganda while we're at it. The claim Russia was given assurances of no NATO expansion at the fall of the Berlin Wall is nonsense. For one thing the Warsaw Pact was still in place so there would have been no point in discussing the fates of nations beyond Germany. Such was never on the table. The subject never came up as Mikail Gorbachev confirmed. The subject of NATO's enlargement "was not discussed at all. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either. " Troop deployment in the former East Germany was all that was considered.

[URL]https://theconversation.com/ukraine-the-history-behind-russias-claim-that-nato-promised-not-to-expand-to-the-east-177085[/URL]

This issue has been covered a number of times before on the thread, however since there's always Johnny come latelys who show up with the same specious arguments that were shot down in the past. It thus has to be done all over again. Such is the circular nature of political discussions for anyone that stays in them for any length time.

But it is important to state again, for anyone who wishes to turn it into a referendum on Biden and Democrats that support for Ukraine is quite bi-partisan, with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package to Ukraine. Therefore most Republican lawmakers aren't buying Russian propaganda and aren't letting Tucker Carlson do their thinking for them. That's a very good thing and gives cause for hope for American democracy.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP2wPJ51pdw[/URL]

American filth are looking to have a drug tsarina and a spy released. One of the reasons Americans (and Israel, two cheeks) are the filth of the world. The spammers here are the reason 1. The moderator has these quarantined threads; 2. These quarantined threads are stupid shit. Unless Russia gets a favourable deal, these American criminals should pay in full for their crimes. Americans do not belong in Europe, except in gulags.

[QUOTE=Travv;2724867]Elderly flee press gangs.

Ukrainian nursing home operators are reporting a surge in walk-offs due to elders' fears that Zelensky's increasingly desperate recruiting efforts will target them next.

75-year-old retiree Cadger Starets, who recently went AWOL from the Kladovyshche Nursing Home in Kiev, explained during an interview at an undisclosed location: "They're already grabbing 50-year-olds off the streets, beaches, shopping malls, 'checkpoints, gas stations and other public places. ' Looks like they're coming for us next. ".

Specifically, Zelensky said, old folks who are wheelchair-bound or severely mobility-impaired will be exempt. Those using walkers or canes, however, may still be drafted, as well as those unable to control excretory functions: "All of our troops lose control of excretory functions during Russian artillery strikes, so that shouldn't be an issue. " Likewise, dementia will not be an obstacle to induction to military service: "If it doesn't stop you from being president of the United States, it shouldn't stop you from dying on the front lines of a stupid, utterly unnecessary war. "

[URL]https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/07/26/zelenskys-conscription-now-targeting-nursing-homes/[/URL][/QUOTE]Too funny!! It might actually be True.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2724803]I agree with this to some extent. The Europeans clearly have the wherewithal to defend themselves and tend to their corner of the world. The Europeans should take primary ownership of NATO. [/QUOTE]We are involved in NATO for the simple reason to support our allies while we are an economic powerhouse and by far the primary nuclear power. Putin would love nothing more than for us to withdraw so he can further run roughshod in his region of the world. As to China, their nuclear capabilities are far less than that of Russia. Russia's is actually greater than the US by a small margin. China also hasn't been involved in a war on it's own since the Sino-Vietnamese conflict of 1979. They are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2724803]You might not notice, but I don't care for black & white narratives in global analysis. I almost always find it is too simplistic and is used to reach a preconceived perspective. I'm also not one of these guys thinking the Ukraine is easily going to run Russia out, trigger the end of the Putin regime and it will be a great ending to the conflict.[/QUOTE]Well there's a respectable endeavor which involves seeking to see all sides. Then there's a wishy washiness that's talking out of both sides of your mouth. That's what I see a lot with your posts on this subject and this attempted love in with Elvis, a person who openly supported the violence against the US capital saying it "should have been worse," along with stolen election lies and is an apologist for Vladimir Putin. But I'm afraid this one is the closest we've seen to black and white since Hitler. We have a tyrant manufacturing justifications for invasions and land grabs while targeting, murdering, executing civilians, with deportations and "filtering centers" / concentration camps for those who survive. There was no provocation whatsoever. The only threat was the interest in democracy in a country he sought to control.

As to anyone thinking Ukraine is going to have an easy time on the battlefield and live happily ever after, who the fuck has made that argument? Rofl Given the propensity toward straw men you and Elvis should get a long well. Enjoy the love in.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman[/URL]

P.S. Jmsuttr's posts are missed, but I can see why he dropped out. The pro-Russia crowd for whatever reason is very much the majority in the free for all threads on this pay for sex site, whatever that means. Going in circles with them daily, and for no pay is hardly worth the effort. Thankfully such traitors are very much the minority in the US, Western Europe, and certainly in NATO Eastern Euro countries. Ultimately that's what's most important.

Based on a wealth of research See imbedded links within the article. Here's a sample.

"Despite Putin's delusions of self-sufficiency and import substitution, Russian domestic production has come to a complete standstill with no capacity to replace lost businesses, products and talent; the hollowing out of Russia's domestic innovation and production base has led to soaring prices and consumer angst.

—As a result of the business retreat, Russia has lost companies representing 40% of its GDP, reversing nearly all of three decades' worth of foreign investment and buttressing unprecedented simultaneous capital and population flight in a mass exodus of Russia's economic base.

—Putin is resorting to patently unsustainable, dramatic fiscal and monetary intervention to smooth over these structural economic weaknesses, which has already sent his government budget into deficit for the first time in years and drained his foreign reserves even with high energy prices – and Kremlin finances are in much, much more dire straits than conventionally understood."

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2724632]Precisely! The reason Ukrainians want to join NATO is the same reason why all former Russia's vassals wanted to be in NATO -- to get protected from the Evil Empire. Nothing more, nothing less.[/QUOTE]That's 100% true and simple enough for a 4th grader to understand. Even Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Tucker Carlson are smart enough to understand it. But it can't be entertained because it conflicts with their white nationalist, isolationist agenda that calls on the US to withdraw from the world stage. Putin would love that, and it's why they are on the same team.

You know an argument can be made to seize Rupert Murdock's assets and shut down Fox News since certain guests, and especially Carlson, are allowed to freely disseminate information easily confirmed as false that supports and gives comfort to our enemy. This was done in the lead up to and during WW II while Nazi sympathizing organizations like the German American Bund were dissolved. Here's an article that makes the argument. I'm personally not ready for that step but it's something to keep on the back burner. Fox deals heavily in Kremlin propaganda, and this is at odds with our national security. Here's a sample:

"Russia would never give genuine western journalists airtime. But it can always find a slot for its favourite quisling: Fox News's Tucker Carlson. He pushes out Russian propaganda lines or perhaps creates his own lies for Russia to use. Ukraine, not Russia, is the real tyranny. Nato provoked poor Vladimir Putin. The west is plotting to use biological weapons. Last week, he floated the theory that the war was not the result of an unprovoked invasion by a colonialist dictatorship but of the Biden administration's desire to avenge Donald Trump's victory in 2016.

It was a big hit in Moscow, reported BuzzFeed's Julia Davis. "State TV propagandists loved it so much, Russia's 60 Minutes included it not once, but twice in their evening broadcast – neatly bookended by the Kremlin's war propaganda."

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/07/fox-new-deals-in-kremlin-propaganda-freeze-rupert-murdochs-assets[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2724889]It's just a rehash of Russian propaganda that Elvis was spoonfed watching Tucker Carlson. He's regurgitating it here and isn't capable of anything more. For one thing Biden lacks the authority to exclude any European country from ever joining NATO as this is against the provisions of the treaty and open door policy.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/17/ugnk-m17.html[/URL].

For a new country to join NATO, all 30 member states must be unanimous in supporting it.

And realistically speaking, if the USA which pays the most into NATO said no to Ukraine coming in, it would not happen. Hell, Turkey was going to prevent Sweden and Finland from coming in.

I am not being spoon fed anything but you are. Was this a lie you came up with on your own or were you spoon fed it by MSNBC, NYT, WaPO?

Wonder what Washington DCs reaction would be if Mexico or Cuba had allied with the USSR and had build nuclear armed missile sites and bioweapons labs near the USA. Think there are a number of movies about this scenario, such as 13 Days In November about the Cuban missile crisis. Ukraine is not a vital interest to American citizens and not worth risking a nuclear war. If you feel it is a vital interest, go join the Ukrainian Legion at the Ukie Embassy and leave the rest of us out of the nuclear brinkmanship!

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2725021]That's 100% true and simple enough for a 4th grader to understand. Even Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Tucker Carlson are smart enough to understand it. But it can't be entertained because it conflicts with their white nationalist, isolationist agenda that calls on the US to withdraw from the world stage. Putin would love that, and it's why they are on the same team.

You know an argument can be made to seize Rupert Murdock's assets and shut down Fox News since certain guests, and especially Carlson, are allowed to freely disseminate information easily confirmed as false that supports and gives comfort to our enemy. This was done in the lead up to and during WW II while Nazi sympathizing organizations like the German American Bund were dissolved. Here's an article that makes the argument. I'm personally not ready for that step but it's something to keep on the back burner. Fox deals heavily in Kremlin propaganda, and this is at odds with our national security. Here's a sample:

"Russia would never give genuine western journalists airtime. But it can always find a slot for its favourite quisling: Fox News's Tucker Carlson. He pushes out Russian propaganda lines or perhaps creates his own lies for Russia to use. Ukraine, not Russia, is the real tyranny. Nato provoked poor Vladimir Putin. The west is plotting to use biological weapons. Last week, he floated the theory that the war was not the result of an unprovoked invasion by a colonialist dictatorship but of the Biden administration's desire to avenge Donald Trump's victory in 2016.[/QUOTE]

Just throw bodies at them. This is how the Ruskies do. Leave their dead upon the field of battle too. The only ones better at running up a willfully high body count are the Japanese. Why they beat Russia one-on-one. Who is willing to sacrifice the most lives in order to prevail?

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/russia-suffered-estimated-75-000-150659330.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2725235]Just throw bodies at them. This is how the Ruskies do. Leave their dead upon the field of battle too. The only ones better at running up a willfully high body count are the Japanese. Why they beat Russia one-on-one. Who is willing to sacrifice the most lives in order to prevail?

[URL]https://www.aol.com/news/russia-suffered-estimated-75-000-150659330.html[/URL][/QUOTE]The Japanese were great hand to hand fighters as the American vermin they dispatched across the Pacific found out. That was due to their training in kendo. Japan's losses were down to a variety of factors, mostly lack of supplies (the blockade started the war) and bad CC&see. The USA bombed Iraq and raped Iraqi children because of weapons of mass destructions. Send your rapists to Ukraine and see what happens to them.

Ukraine is like most countries in that American filth know nothing about it. It is Zelensky's fodder who are getting minced. Artillery and missiles then to do that. Opinion is turning in Europe and hopefully, soon it will be open season. Fuck off and read your Vogue magazine.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2725286]The Japanese were great hand to hand fighters as the American vermin they dispatched across the Pacific found out.[/QUOTE]Who were the vermin needing to be burned out of their rat holes? Yep, that's what I thought: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCUztfzcxA.[/URL] And how were Japanese losses compared to American loses? Yep, exactly what I recalled: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCUztfzcxA.[/URL] But it's all neither here nor there. Because it's Ruskie losses that we want to know about! In the end maybe they shall prevail. But only at a horrific loss of Ruskie aggressor lives!

That's the way the Kremlin crumbles!

[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-economy-imploding-sweeping-sanctions-corporate-exodus-yale-study-2022-7?amp[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2724994]We are involved in NATO for the simple reason to support our allies while we are an economic powerhouse and by far the primary nuclear power. Putin would love nothing more than for us to withdraw so he can further run roughshod in his region of the world. As to China, their nuclear capabilities are far less than that of Russia. Russia's is actually greater than the US by a small margin. China also hasn't been involved in a war on it's own since the Sino-Vietnamese conflict of 1979. They are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia.

Well there's a respectable endeavor which involves seeking to see all sides. Then there's a wishy washiness that's talking out of both sides of your mouth. That's what I see a lot with your posts on this subject and this attempted love in with Elvis, a person who openly supported the violence against the US capital saying it "should have been worse," along with stolen election lies and is an apologist for Vladimir Putin. But I'm afraid this one is the closest we've seen to black and white since Hitler. We have a tyrant manufacturing justifications for invasions and land grabs while targeting, murdering, executing civilians, with deportations and "filtering centers" / concentration camps for those who survive. There was no provocation whatsoever. The only threat was the interest in democracy in a country he sought to control.

As to anyone thinking Ukraine is going to have an easy time on the battlefield and live happily ever after, who the fuck has made that argument? Rofl Given the propensity toward straw men you and Elvis should get a long well. Enjoy the love in.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman[/URL]

P.S. Jmsuttr's posts are missed, but I can see why he dropped out. The pro-Russia crowd for whatever reason is very much the majority in the free for all threads on this pay for sex site, whatever that means. Going in circles with them daily, and for no pay is hardly worth the effort. Thankfully such traitors are very much the minority in the US, Western Europe, and certainly in NATO Eastern Euro countries. Ultimately that's what's most important.[/QUOTE]It's seems like you cherry pick posts and use your own straw man approach. It would indeed make you the smartest person on any forum you participate if you arguing with a position and person that you have created. I think more than likely you jump in and out of threads and think you have everyone categorized. "Ah-ha! This Wyatt guy is in bed with Elvis. ".

I have criticized Elvis extensively here. However, I don't think he is one of the garden variety Russia lovers here. It's very possible that he watches too much Fox News and can't appreciate their prime time line-up is entertainment. We can get into all the political baggage about Trump, Russia, Biden, Ukraine, et cetera and grind the thread into the ground. I myself don't think any of the somewhat conspiratorial theses really hold up consistently. Tucker Carlson is a circus clown. I don't watch, but it can be entertainment if you view it as such. I would liken him to MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. She can spin a yarn that can make your head spin and enrage any self-respecting liberal. Yikes is all I have to say.

As far as unpacking your specific points, I am an American and in my opinion we don't need 12 military bases, 90,000 troops and the Sixth Fleet patrolling the Mediterranean to counter Russian aggression. As I pointed out in simple math, Germany alone could easily field a land-based army that would be very capable of turning back the Russians on the ground in the event of an attack on NATO allies. This isn't even counting Britain, France and several smaller economies with an effective military.

Your point about Russian nuclear capabilities is interesting, but why can't the United States contribute less men and equipment while contributing the nuclear deterrence to NATO without all the troops and bases? I assure you this will keep being discussed in our domestic politics in the next several years. If you take away Russia's nuclear force, their European land army and air force leave a lot to be desired. Their effectiveness or lack thereof in the Ukraine is a case and point.

I hope you are right about China. China is at an evolution in their autocracy where they will want to flex their muscle. Historically China has not been interested in a global military preeminence, but certainly have wanted to have more influence in the Western Pacific. Claiming the waters of the South China Sea and building airstrips there are aggressive actions. A simple look at the region on a map in relation to the Chinese mainland shows the hostile nature of the moves. Then you have China looking for allies in the South Pacific island chains to develop naval ports just north of Australia. China can project power in their region in a way Russia can only dream about.

Jmsuttr frequently posted articles that described an ailing, close to dying Putin and / or a Russian regime crumbling from within. I have simply said you would not want to encourage a long, protracted conflict in the Ukraine based on this hope that this could be the end result. The outcome to the war brings a lot of uncertainty. IMHO, he would get noticeably irritated with this perspective. My clearest point is that wars bring on massive uncertainty as to their end. Does one have to be 110% committed to supporting the war until every last Russian soldier evacuates the Ukraine or else be labeled a Russia sympathizer?

Wars are messy. Peace is messier. There's plenty of examples where wars became long, grinding stalemates and no one got what they wanted in the end. Even after the war, it's very possible that the Ukraine-Russia border will look like other conflict borders where there is a constant state of hostility and continuing skirmishes. Russia isn't just going to pack up and say "my bad". Yes, it sucks for the Ukraine, but I don't think anything else is realistically possible. A regime change could change things, but even that might not bring a lasting peace.

I personally hope the West has the last laugh one day with a prosperous Ukraine looking westward.

And for the record: [URL]http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm[/URL].

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2725503]
I am an American and in my opinion we don't need 12 military bases, 90,000 troops and the Sixth Fleet patrolling the Mediterranean to counter Russian aggression. As I pointed out in simple math, Germany alone could easily field a land-based army that would be very capable of turning back the Russians on the ground in the event of an attack on NATO allies. This isn't even counting Britain, France and several smaller economies with an effective military.

Your point about Russian nuclear capabilities is interesting, but why can't the United States contribute less men and equipment while contributing the nuclear deterrence to NATO without all the troops and bases? I assure you this will keep being discussed in our domestic politics in the next several years. If you take away Russia's nuclear force, their European land army and air force leave a lot to be desired. Their effectiveness or lack thereof in the Ukraine is a case and point.[/QUOTE]Tucker's the ONLY Fox talking head dead set against the Ukrainian proxy war. Many of Tucker's guest are why Tucker's show is Fox's top rated. He is inclined to exaggerate and spotlight fringe issues to provoke the viewership but he doesn't need to lie. The truth nowadays is hard enough to believe so no need to lie. Filter out the exaggerations and occasional Covid rants and he's very good.

Like you, Tucker's against fighting Russia directly through Ukraine's army. I believe it's a half proxy war and very different from the quintessential proxy war when we funded terrorist in Syria against Putin's Assad in 2012. How much of Syria's big cities are left after we failed to dislodge Assad? And what will be left of Ukraine when the big powers decide they've had enough. We'll be super lucky if the conflict doesn't spread and wreck everyone's plans and we're due for a big one.

I like your post and a few others here but knocking Tucker and then mirroring his pov was unusual. Tucker is anti Ukraine war and for good reason. Cheers.

Yesterday Russian liberators murdered over 50 Ukrainian POWs in Elenovka.

There is also 2 graphic videos showing Russian soldiers castrating and shooting a Ukrainian POW presumably in Severodonetsk.

In other words, business as usual. The denazification of Ukraine is in full swing.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2725503]I think more than likely you jump in and out of threads and think you have everyone categorized. "Ah-ha! This Wyatt guy is in bed with Elvis. ".

I have criticized Elvis extensively here. However, I don't think he is one of the garden variety Russia lovers here.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the problem with Pauline is that he goes after anyone who does not parrot the bullshit Democratic narrative. When I said the travel ban Colombia implemented with Covid was a waste of time, Pauline said that I wanted cheap pussy over dead Colombians. Of course, the travel ban did jack shit with Colombia and the spread of Covid, and the lockdowns implemented were a fucking disaster.

And the lockdowns led to more serious infections down the line; "This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system," But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren't circulating among children, they don't develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.

And Pauline's response to being wrong with Russiagate, lockdowns, travel bans, and Ukrainegate? Gilda Radner said it best. Never mind! [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I[/URL].

Without Russiagate and Ukrainegate, would 1-6 have happened? Probably not. Hell, the Dems were plotting to get rid of Trump the day he stepped into office.

Thing is the Democrat's pet, Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, said that Putin would not have invaded Ukriaine if Trump were still president. Given the debacles and loss of life in Ukraine and Afghanistan, I would ask all Democrats, "Did you screw up voting for Biden given all the deaths in Ukraine and Afghanistan?" If the answer is no, then why should I care? For all Trump's bluster, he kept the peace.

Those in the shipping business told me that Biden was gearing up for war since day one in office. He thought war was key to his winning re-election. And now the Dems have no way of winning on the economy so they think putting Putin's head on a spike like they did with Gaddafi will win them seats in the midterms. That is all they care about. They do not give a rat's ass about the people in Ukraine. I saw that when Biden's and other pols sons were fleecing the Ukrainians with their "aid" packages.

How much am I supposed to hate Putin when he punches you in the face after you have been kicking him in the shin? Pauline keeps lying that Putin was not provoked. Hell, Russiagate itself was provocation. And before then, there was all this American money going to Ukraine for weapons and training and some of it even went to the Nazis in Ukraine. What the hell was that for? What about the lie that we cannot keep Ukraine from joining NATO when any country can in NATO could have kept Ukraine out?

If Putin goes after a NATO country, then I will care but quit bugging me about a country that was your little pet project. OMG, Russia is going to take Ukraine!! They had Ukraine when they were the USSR. No, I do not like Putin. Big deal. If you dumb Dems really wanted peace, you should have voted for Trump. Are you going to own the fact that your vote for Biden caused the Ukrainians to suffer?

I note that there is absolutely nothing about finding women in Kyiv. Rather, there is an intense debate about political issues as if the ISG were about politics. This is too bad, because I can get the same debates just about everywhere.

Finding women under wartime conditions would be different and interesting.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2725720]Yeah, the problem with Pauline is that he goes after anyone who does not parrot the bullshit Democratic narrative. When I said the travel ban Colombia implemented with Covid was a waste of time, Pauline said that I wanted cheap pussy over dead Colombians. Of course, the travel ban did jack shit with Colombia and the spread of Covid, and the lockdowns implemented were a fucking disaster.

And the lockdowns led to more serious infections down the line; "This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system," But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren't circulating among children, they don't develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.

And Pauline's response to being wrong with Russiagate, lockdowns, travel bans, and Ukrainegate? Gilda Radner said it best. Never mind! [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I[/URL].

Without Russiagate and Ukrainegate, would 1-6 have happened? Probably not. Hell, the Dems were plotting to get rid of Trump the day he stepped into office.

Thing is the Democrat's pet, Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, said that Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if Trump were still president. Given the debacles and loss of life in Ukraine and Afghanistan, I would ask all Democrats, "Did you screw up voting for Biden given all the deaths in Ukraine and Afghanistan?" If the answer is no, then why should I care? For all Trump's bluster, he kept the peace.

Those in the shipping business told me that Biden was gearing up for war since day one in office. He thought war was key to his winning re-election. And now the Dems have no way of winning on the economy so they think putting Putin's head on a spike like they did with Gaddafi will win them seats in the midterms. That is all they care about. They do not give a rat's ass about the people in Ukraine. I saw that when Biden's and other pols sons were fleecing the Ukrainians with their "aid" packages.

How much am I supposed to hate Putin when he punches you in the face after you have been kicking him in the shin? Pauline keeps lying that Putin was not provoked. Hell, Russiagate itself was provocation. And before then, there was all this American money going to Ukraine for weapons and training and some of it even went to the Nazis in Ukraine. What the hell was that for? What about the lie that we cannot keep Ukraine from joining NATO when any country can in NATO could have kept Ukraine out?

If Putin goes after a NATO country, then I will care but quit bugging me about a country that was your little pet project. OMG, Russia is going to take Ukraine!! They had Ukraine when they were the USSR. No, I do not like Putin. Big deal. If you dumb Dems really wanted peace, you should have voted for Trump. Are you going to own the fact that your vote for Biden caused the Ukrainians to suffer?[/QUOTE]The more I think about it, I think you are correct, for whatever crazy ass reason Bidden wanted this war. Now he got what he wanted and we are getting are Ass kicked economically. Nobody is winning, but Putin and the arm dealers.

Nobody in America cares about this war, with the exception of a few crazy liberals. Russia is obviously not a military threat anymore, there army is not a threat to Europe, could the governments admit this or the media, no way, why stop the lies now.

Pauline, XMan and there followers are just delusional and for some ridiculous reason they want the war to continue. Ukraine is being destroyed, there people are getting killed or wounded, there will be nothing left to fight over. Everyone that has not already left will leave for Europe.

[QUOTE=Socker;2725662]Tucker's the ONLY Fox talking head dead set against the Ukrainian proxy war. Many of Tucker's guest are why Tucker's show is Fox's top rated. He is inclined to exaggerate and spotlight fringe issues to provoke the viewership but he doesn't need to lie. The truth nowadays is hard enough to believe so no need to lie. Filter out the exaggerations and occasional Covid rants and he's very good.

Like you, Tucker's against fighting Russia directly through Ukraine's army. I believe it's a half proxy war and very different from the quintessential proxy war when we funded terrorist in Syria against Putin's Assad in 2012. How much of Syria's big cities are left after we failed to dislodge Assad? And what will be left of Ukraine when the big powers decide they've had enough. We'll be super lucky if the conflict doesn't spread and wreck everyone's plans and we're due for a big one.

I like your post and a few others here but knocking Tucker and then mirroring his pov was unusual. Tucker is anti Ukraine war and for good reason. Cheers.[/QUOTE]I think you are being confused by Paulie's words. I admonished him in my last post for trying to put me and everyone on one side of this thread or the other. There is always more nuance and complexity in wars and foreign affairs in general. We have to allow for varying thoughts on the topic.

I do not share Elvis' view on the war. I simply agreed with Elvis that Europe does not need the USA To defend them. This is what triggered a visceral reaction from Paulie. I don't know why. It's actually a very popular view among Americans. It in no means implies that the USA Can't support the Ukraine in its war with Russia.

(Unfortunately, the whole pivot from NATO to the Western Pacific strategy carries a lot of the Trump baggage. Almost any Trump policy no matter how sound or realistic seems to trigger anti-Trump outrage. The idea of pivoting from Europe to Asia has been around before Trump. We in the USA Are currently bogged down in this partisan bickering that seems to infect every government decision.).

As far as Tucker Carlson, I think he is way over the top. Like many cable news commentators in a quest for ratings, Tucker looks to be a vocal contrarian with almost every Biden Administration policy. Sometimes he has an interesting take on things, but most of the time he is trying to gin up an older, male Republican audience. I have no idea where you got the idea that I mirror Tucker's POV.

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts. I wouldn't read Paulie or Elvis last references to me to try to gauge my opinions. That would seem to make sense.

[QUOTE=MamaGuevos;2725842]I note that there is absolutely nothing about finding women in Kyiv. Rather, there is an intense debate about political issues as if the ISG were about politics. This is too bad, because I can get the same debates just about everywhere.

Finding women under wartime conditions would be different and interesting.[/QUOTE]This crazy, but nothing Surprises me about guys that want to travel to Ukraine.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2725864]
Nobody in America cares about this war, with the exception of a few crazy liberals. Russia is obviously not a military threat anymore, there army is not a threat to Europe, could the governments admit this or the media, no way, why stop the lies now..[/QUOTE]Not true. There are vested interests that care a great deal about this war. Monsanto, Cargill et. Al. Have bought up gigantic tracts of Ukraine's farmland to produce their genetically modified food -- land that presently has come under Russian control, and is likely to remain so if things continue on the present course.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2725864]The more I think about it, I think you are correct, for whatever crazy ass reason Bidden wanted this war. Now he got what he wanted and we are getting are Ass kicked economically. Nobody is winning, but Putin and the arm dealers.

Nobody in America cares about this war, with the exception of a few crazy liberals. Russia is obviously not a military threat anymore, there army is not a threat to Europe, could the governments admit this or the media, no way, why stop the lies now.

Pauline, XMan and there followers are just delusional and for some ridiculous reason they want the war to continue. Ukraine is being destroyed, there people are getting killed or wounded, there will be nothing left to fight over. Everyone that has not already left will leave for Europe.[/QUOTE]And Pelosi is stirring up crap with China now: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-issuing-same-red-line-warnings-about-taiwan-russia-issued-about-ukraine[/URL].

Thing is the article references that Russia warned prior to going into Ukraine that they would. They put down a red line, and we crossed it. China is putting down a red line with Taiwan and Pelosi is crossing it. Like I said, the Dems want war.

[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/18/putin-accuses-west-of-taking-russias-red-lines-too-lightly[/URL]

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/markets/stocks/putin-warns-russia-will-act-if-nato-crosses-its-red-lines-ukraine-2021-11-30/[/URL]

Moscow has since accused Kyiv and NATO of which Ukraine is an ally but not a member of destabilising behaviour, including in the Black Sea.

Putin said Western strategic bombers carrying "very serious weapons" were flying within 20 kilometres (12.5 miles) of Russia's borders.

President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia would be forced to act if its "red lines" on Ukraine were crossed by NATO, saying Moscow would view the deployment of certain offensive missile capabilities on Ukrainian soil as a trigger.

There goes Xman and Pauline's claim that Russia was not provoked. Thing is the media is constantly lying and saying that Russia launched an unprovoked invasion.

The dumb Dem position is that you are with us or with Putin. Yeah, sorry, I dislike you Dems, Putin, Zelensky for provoking Russia, and am on the side of peace and the side of Ukrainian citizens not dying. If the Dems were not filling the Ukrainian coffers with money and weapons, there would have been peace long ago. Instead the dumb Dems talk of victory over Russia whatever the hell that means.

[QUOTE=Socker;2725662]Tucker's the ONLY Fox talking head dead set against the Ukrainian proxy war. Many of Tucker's guest are why Tucker's show is Fox's top rated. He is inclined to exaggerate and spotlight fringe issues to provoke the viewership but he doesn't need to lie. The truth nowadays is hard enough to believe so no need to lie. Filter out the exaggerations and occasional Covid rants and he's very good.

Like you, Tucker's against fighting Russia directly through Ukraine's army. I believe it's a half proxy war and very different from the quintessential proxy war when we funded terrorist in Syria against Putin's Assad in 2012. How much of Syria's big cities are left after we failed to dislodge Assad? And what will be left of Ukraine when the big powers decide they've had enough. We'll be super lucky if the conflict doesn't spread and wreck everyone's plans and we're due for a big one.

I like your post and a few others here but knocking Tucker and then mirroring his pov was unusual. Tucker is anti Ukraine war and for good reason. Cheers.[/QUOTE]Gee, every sentence in this post is "quintessential" bullshit.

History always repeats itself. 90 years ago people like you (and Elvis, and Drama Queen) would oppose "fighting Hitler directly through UK's army. ".

Hitler's American Friends: The Third Reich's Supporters in the United States.

[URL]https://networks.h-net.org/node/28443/reviews/4398217/norwood-hart-hitlers-american-friends-third-reichs-supporters-united[/URL]

Oh, and Tucker Carlson is a bought and paid for Russian shill. And a traitor. And a waste of human flesh.

Russian State TV Can't Get Enough of Putin Sycophant Tucker Carlson.

[URL]https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/leaked-memo-tucker-carlson-russia-1320583[/URL]

Was not just in Europe. He was doing military support buildup in Africa and Asia.

Thing was I was watching Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a military series on Disney Plus. The military consults and suggests edits for a show like that. In the beginning of the series, Falcon has to slow down so as not to enter Libyan air space like they were a superpower. I was like, "Oh so Biden wants war with Libya then. " A lot of those supplies were sent to countries surrounding Libya. Thing is I looked up how strong Libya's air force was and they have six, yes six, aircraft.

The whole pandemic of the unvaxxed we now know was bullshit. The unvaxxed pandemic was stirred up so that Pfizer and Moderna could make money and funnel it back to the Dems. The 4 X vaxxed Biden and Fauci both got Covid.

It is sad that the only bipartisan schemes these days are throwing money at companies and the defense contractors are favorites of both parties. The latest budget gave the defense contractors more than Biden even asked for with a lot of Republicans helping the Dems get that money. But for defense contractors, the war in Ukraine has already been a smashing success.

So Biden got a war like he wanted, and Russia is so much the better bad guy than Libya.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2725872]I do not share Elvis' view on the war. I simply agreed with Elvis that Europe does not need the USA To defend them. [/QUOTE]American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.

America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war. But if you think it is vital to fight in a war overseas, get yourself to the Ukie Embassy ASAP and sign up with the International Legion! There's a place in the trenches waiting for you along with the estimated 50,000 Russian artillery shells per day hitting the Ukie trenches, so you will not be bored. Let the rest of us know how that works out for you!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2725937]American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2725937]American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.[/QUOTE]You are completely delusional. The only threat Russia has is their Nukes, their army is terrible and that is being kind.

I would support the war if we were actually trying to win and if Pres. Z. was willing to negotiate. Maybe producing Gas would be a good start, but why try to win now.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2725937]American isolationists have been uttering this mantra for over 100 years. They've been proven wrong time after time, but they won't give up like a mule standing his ground.

Europe is not capable of dealing with crazed dictators on its own. That's just a fact.

Without America, Europe would be a wasteland today. Although, on an upside, some assholes like Merdo, who call us filth, wouldn't even be here.

You know who can afford to be isolationists?

St. Lucia can. Anguilla can. Or any other sun-kissed island, LOL.

America can't.[/QUOTE]The US / Euro alliance is a force to be reckoned with, both economically and militarily, whether we are engaging Russia, China or both. Those who seek to weaken these alliances are fools. And though these may be the loudest in a hooker forum, thankfully they are very much a minority in Western Europe and the US, though a substantial minority comprising the traitorous wing of the Republican Party. Isolationists are also found in the Chomsky-esque leftists. This disgusting entity in the US also hates it's own country.

Such misappropriations of 'America First,' a phrase first used by 'The America First Committee' which encouraged non-involvement in WW II emboldens tyrants. It's why Saddam annexed Kuwait because he believed the US would stay out of it. US isolationism and British appeasement emboldened Hitler, and the Kaiser in WW I as he believed both Britain and the US were likely to stay on the sidelines with an invasion of France.

Needless to say our friends in Asia are very important also.

[QUOTE=Travv;2725945]America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war. But if you think it is vital to fight in a war overseas, get yourself to the Ukie Embassy ASAP and sign up with the International Legion! There's a place in the trenches waiting for you along with the estimated 50,000 Russian artillery shells per day hitting the Ukie trenches, so you will not be bored. Let the rest of us know how that works out for you![/QUOTE]Non-vital according to who? Who gave you a magic dick to decide what's vital and what's not?

Your ideological forefathers in the 1930's sang the same tune about Japan and the Nazis. Non-vital, my ass.

50,000 shells? That's old news. They've been running out since mid-June, and Ukrainians are taking out their arms and fuel depots well behind the front lines. Go HIMARS!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2725958]You are completely delusional. The only threat Russia has is their Nukes, their army is terrible and that is being kind.

I would support the war if we were actually trying to win and if Pres. Z. was willing to negotiate. Maybe producing Gas would be a good start, but why try to win now.[/QUOTE]I have no idea what you just said. "Trying to win" and "willing to negotiate" don't work in the same sentence. And WTF does "why try to win now" means? Someone's running after you? Finish your goddamn thoughts and sentences.

[QUOTE]We in America have learned bitter lessons from two world wars: It is better to be here in Europe ready to protect the peace, than to take blind shelter across the sea, rushing to respond only after freedom is lost. We've learned that isolationism never was and never will be an acceptable response to tyrannical governments with an expansionist intent.[/QUOTE]No, Obama didn't say that. Ronald Reagan did. Although after Mad Don, he sounds like Karl Marx now.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2725872]
Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts. I wouldn't read Paulie or Elvis last references to me to try to gauge my opinions. That would seem to make sense.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here. All involved in the Ukrainian back and forth are super smart and very few open to change based on reality. This is because reality (right and wrong) is being successfully challenged in the west. Many things that used to be right are now wrong. I've been around for 70 years and things have never been worse in America. This is lost on most people under 40 as they've only been adults during the decline. The decline has been in the works for 30 years and I have a front row seat in San Francisco, a once world class city and now an embarrassment.

So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on. Before this cultural war (as they call it) most people believed the truth is more important than party affiliation but this sadly is no longer the case. Thanks for not biting my head off as some here enjoy doing when you have an alternative pov. All the best.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726121]Non-vital according to who? Who gave you a magic dick to decide what's vital and what's not?[/QUOTE]Your hero Obama did. [URL]https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/obama-was-right-no-gae-war-with-russia/[/URL].

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726121]Your ideological forefathers in the 1930's sang the same tune about Japan and the Nazis. Non-vital, my ass.[/QUOTE]Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2725872]
Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts.[/QUOTE]This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.

[QUOTE=Socker;2726273]So Wyatt I was impressed w your post and saw a similar pov w Tucker, that was all I intended to say: the Ukraine war is wrong, why make it worse? Tucker is hated by some for shinning a light on truth or what half of society used to consider right but is now wrong. In my view he is at times over the top and at other times spot on.[/QUOTE]Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.

As to any "culture war," that's just code for traditionally marginalized people empowering themselves and demanding rights and a voice. The internet facilitates much of this. This makes a lot of folks uncomfortable, especially those seeing their privilege slipping away. There's also a lot of money to be made stirring these folks up screaming that the sky is falling. Just look at the homes that Carlson and Hannity live in for starters. Habitually lying with a charismatic flair pays.

With that I'm over and out. I have a trip to Colombia coming up soon, plus anyone interested in my views on this can check my post history. I've answered every possible objection several times already, am done going in circles. Maybe Wyatt can lead you all in a love in. He's flexible, I mean wishy washy enough. Wink.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2726379]This has been done and that's the wishy washiness I was speaking of. You're the kind of guy that wants to get along with everyone, even Russo propagandists. But the result is that you never take a stand for anything substantive while you bore us with the fluffed up intellectualism.[/QUOTE]Your recent outrage was specifically triggered when I said Europe can defend itself. Sure, the United States can still be an active, contributing member with its nuclear deterrence. We don't need to be the bulwark on the ground in Europe. I don't know if I can be clear enough.

You also challenged my opinion that China is the preeminent global threat. I stated that we need to focus more on the Western Pacific. Quoting your post "They (China) are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia. " Most Americans (and a lot of Taiwanese, Japanese etc.) would disagree with you.

In reality, none of my positions in reality conflict with providing major support for the Ukraine.

These are clearly stated opinions that really don't fit into your box described wishy washy. As I said, you want to put everyone in a black and white box or else they break your rigid views. You have to allow for for some nuance and varying opinions on social media. Jmsuttr and I could always have different perspectives while having civil discussions.

[QUOTE=Socker;2726273]Thanks for the kind response. I'm a dreaded high school diploma guy so mixing w the big boys here .[/QUOTE]You don't need more than high school. All you need to do is cut off Fox News for a while, surf around and do some valid research rather than swallowing propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for their existence against a neighbor that feels like they have no right to exist. This is based on forced and false historical narratives. The bottom line is that Russia wants their goodies, industries, farmlands, and ports and is willing to murder civilians and prisoners of war, and engage in forced deportations to get them. There's a gencocide going on. Ukraine is quite developed and successful when compared to most of Russia. Some try to blame the victim by calling Ukraine corrupt, and there is corruption there like any country. However they've made improvements since 2014 and moving away from the Russian puppet governments. They typically get much better scores on corruption measures than Russia.

But Ukrainians love freedom and their country so much that they want to fight for it. They are willing to spill the blood but have asked the West for weapons, and we have agreed as we should. This sends the right message in Europe that you can't run roughshod stealing your neighbor's land without consequence. This sets the right precedent, both for us and our NATO allies in Europe. So that's what we are doing, and the vast majority of Americans and politicians from both major political parties agree with it, while we levy cripling sanctions on the Russian economy. And none of this is likely to change as a result of any hacks or pseudo-intellectuals in a monger forum. So that's a brief summary, the bottom line, and good luck. .

P.S. Also all of this has been covered already on this thread and in greater detail.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2726308]Your hero Obama did. [URL]https://www.revolver.news/2022/02/obama-was-right-no-gae-war-with-russia/[/URL].

Obama articulated that the American people are simply not willing to go to war in Ukraine. To put it simply, the Ukraine is simply not a core American interest that is worth killing and dying over.

From The Atlantic:

Obama's theory here is simple: Ukraine is a core Russian interest but not an American one, so Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there.

"The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-nato country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do," he said.

I asked Obama whether his position on Ukraine was realistic or fatalistic.

"It's realistic," he said. "But this is an example of where we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for.[/QUOTE]Playing dirty again, Elvis?

Or being an idiot again, Elvis?

It's either one or another, Elvis. Which is it?

First, this interview took place in 2016, way before the Bunker Rat ordered a full-blown invasion of Ukraine.

Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.

[QUOTE=Travv;2725945][b]America and me (aka we) can stay out of this non vital war.[/b] [/QUOTE]Staying away means fuck it. No support, not weapons, no military cooperation, no nothing. That's what Travv wants. He doesn't want anyone to interfere with Russia in their attempt to finish off Ukraine.

Obama didn't want to go to war, but he didn't stay away either. He sent Ukraine $800 million non-letal military equipment and established the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative.

Why non-letal? Because there wasn't a full-blown war back then, that's why.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2726308]Maybe you have not noticed but the world has changed a lot in the last 90 years. In the 1930's, people were starving, no antibiotics were available, and the people who were the richest did not own servers in factories but had the most productive land. I keep hearing about how Russia wants more land when they have more land than any other country in the world.

Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.

I do not give a damn about Ukraine. I am not willing to give my life up for it, and it in no way affects me. If Russia attacked a NATO country, that would be different but we never signed a treaty saying we would protect Ukraine, and signed agreements mean something to me and to the world. This is between Ukraine and Russia not us.

Biden and the Dems wanted war, and they got what they were hoping for. If you want to go fight, then be my guest but you are not sucking me or other halfway intelligent people in. This is YOUR war not ours.[/QUOTE]Let's keep antibiotics out of it, shell we, LOL?

Your references to Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq are completely out of context. First, if we didn't stop North Korea's advance, Asia and probably the whole world would look different today. Knowing what those savages have done in the territory they conquered, you surely wouldn't wish the same fate for Korea in whole?

Although wait -- I forgot you "don't give a damn about" any shitty lands that lie beyond our borders. Sorry, slipped my mind for a second.

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2726384]Ukraine isn't wrong but was minding their own business while showing interest in democracy. They also showed interest in protection for good reason with a bloodthirsty tyrant next door. Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it. Carlson's quotes and videos have been posted here, as has proof of the Russian media's love for him. He's a traitor that the World War II generation would have removed from the airwaves in their day. In the 19th century he'd have been tarred and feathered and send crying to the outskirts of town like the little ***** that he is, only to turn up selling his snake oil someplace else once he cooled down.[/QUOTE]Carlson's name will live in infamy. He'll be as "famous" as Donald S. Day and Mildred Gillars one day.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_S._Day[/URL]#Arrest_and_charges_of_treason.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726681]

The world might've changed a lot in the last 90 years, but isolationists haven't. They never learn.[/QUOTE]The good news is that they aren't getting their way. They are a small minority even in the Republican Party. Ukraine is getting lethal aid for the fight they wish to fight and Russia is paying a heavy price. No amount of daily, repetitive squawking in a hooker forum is going to change that.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726681]
Second, what's your point exactly? That Obama didn't want to go to war?

Sure he didn't.

Neither do I.

And neither does Biden.

Only your bud Travv isn't talking about going to war. He wants us to STAY AWAY.
[/QUOTE]I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

We have the same thing now with Pelosi going to Taiwan. China has said they absolutely do not want Pelosi to go to Taiwan. And now there is this dick measuring contest about whether Pelosi should go. It is funny to me. What is the upside of her going? Are we going to show China who is boss just like we did with Russia and Ukraine because that worked out so well? Of course Pelosi is going to go to Taiwan because the Democrats want war.

WW3 is a small price to pay for the Democrats to stay in power, and that is what the war in Ukraine is all about.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2726730]I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.

We have the same thing now with Pelosi going to Taiwan. China has said they absolutely do not want Pelosi to go to Taiwan. And now there is this dick measuring contest about whether Pelosi should go. It is funny to me. What is the upside of her going? Are we going to show China who is boss just like we did with Russia and Ukraine because that worked out so well? Of course Pelosi is going to go to Taiwan because the Democrats want war.

WW3 is a small price to pay for the Democrats to stay in power, and that is what the war in Ukraine is all about.[/QUOTE]There is no reason for Pelosi to make the trip, very bad decision, but this what Dem. Do best, make horrible / risky decisions.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2726623]You don't need more than high school. All you need to do is cut off Fox News for a while, surf around and do some valid research rather than swallowing propaganda. Ukraine is fighting for their existence against a neighbor that feels like they have no right to exist. This is based on forced and false historical narratives. The bottom line is that Russia wants their goodies, industries, farmlands, and ports and is willing to murder civilians and prisoners of war, and engage in forced deportations to get them. There's a gencocide going on. Ukraine is quite developed and successful when compared to most of Russia. Some try to blame the victim by calling Ukraine corrupt, and there is corruption there like any country. However they've made improvements since 2014 and moving away from the Russian puppet governments. They typically get much better scores on corruption measures than Russia.

But Ukrainians love freedom and their country so much that they want to fight for it. They are willing to spill the blood but have asked the West for weapons, and we have agreed as we should. This sends the right message in Europe that you can't run roughshod stealing your neighbor's land without consequence. This sets the right precedent, both for us and our NATO allies in Europe. So that's what we are doing, and the vast majority of Americans and politicians from both major political parties agree with it, while we levy cripling sanctions on the Russian economy. And none of this is likely to change as a result of any hacks or pseudo-intellectuals in a monger forum. So that's a brief summary, the bottom line, and good luck.l.[/QUOTE]You are on crack. Ukraine was not well developed country, they were a joke a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

If Ukraine loved there country, why was everyone fleeing the country, pre-covid? This had nothing to do with the war, it had everything to do with corruption and zero opportunities for a better life. Ukraine was out of control, but that does not fit with your narrative.

You and XMan should go be correspondent for CNN. Start with doing an audit on how the government is spending the money. I doubt you will like what you find, but you would find a way to rationalize this, like all your other crazy ass views.

To quote President John Quincy Adams, "America. Goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all."

If certain members of this board want to volunteer and fight in the International Legion, they are free to do so. But staying out of endless European wars as a neutral and not "seeking monsters to destroy" is just common sense. If US business wish to sell armaments to Ukraine or Russia, I am in favor of this as the "Chief business of the American people is business" President Calvin Coolidge. But not if the arms sales are based on loans or foreign aid. Switzerland has gone for centuries without foreign wars by looking to its defenses and minding its own business. Would that American politicians would copy Switzerland's aim to putting its own people first and not using them as cannon fodder in foreign disputes. Those seeking to involve Americans in another foreign war should set the example by practicing what they preach and signing up with the International Legion themselves!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2726730]I cannot speak for Travv but I think he does not want his tax dollars going to Ukraine nor do I want mine.

I told you Biden wanted war as soon as he got into office. I showed you links where the Russians warned Washington about Ukraine joining NATO, about a military jet flying close to the Russian border, about how the USA was arming Ukraine. Russia said to the USA if you guys keep that up we are going to invade Ukraine, and they did just that.

All you guys can do is lie now. Pile on Pauline said Ukraine was just "minding its own business" That is just not true.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2726308]Since WW2 ended, almost 80 years ago, every attempt at war has been some stupid version of the domino theory. If we do not stop X here, we will have horrific consequences. That was the excuse for the debacles in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. There was no mission just a hollow promise of stopping someone.[/QUOTE]This is the truth whether anyone likes it or not. America's leaders sold the war in Vietnam to the public w constant warnings of a communist take over of Asia. First Vietnam, then Cambodia, Thailand, etc etc. We lost the war and the communist takeover never happened. Millions of dead and severely wounded and it ended up being an exercise in futility. Fortunately a nuclear threat was non existent from our adversaries in 1968.

Now, 50 years later we have Ukraine vs Russia and once again the west is trying to stop Russia (still communist to some) from taking over vast territories. We're trying to stop communism all over again but this time is different because everyone has nukes. Nuclear war has never been closer to destroying humanity than it is today. Propaganda was expertly used in the Vietnam era and it's being used now. This conflict would be over now had we stayed out of it and Ukraine would be more intact w less dead Ukrainians.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2726384]Carlson is a self-serving habitual liar and Russo propagandist that preys upon angry whites without college degrees, the same whom many lack the wherewithal to verify information before embracing it..[/QUOTE]I'm always searching for the least biased news. Maybe you can point me towards a more fair and honest news source. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2726722]The good news is that they aren't getting their way. They are a small minority even in the Republican Party. Ukraine is getting lethal aid for the fight they wish to fight and Russia is paying a heavy price. No amount of daily, repetitive squawking in a hooker forum is going to change that.[/QUOTE]These fellas are unbelievable. They are dying to get on their four, spread the cheeks and let world dictatorships like Russia and China have their way with them.

Not that I would mind, but they want all of us, as a country, to do the same thing.

Russians warned Washington, he said. China told us not to go to Taiwan, he said.

I mean wow!

So it's OK now for Russia and China to dictate how we should treat our allies, who we can and cannot support, where we can and cannot go? When I need to go pee-pee, should I raise my hand first?

What the hell has happened to Repubs? Weren't they always a bunch of obnoxious, tough-talking, hawkish blowhards?

You guys know fuck all. You take your opinions from low level MSM sources. Your endless spam contributes nothing about the war in Ukraine. Ditto your endless spamming on American politics thread. Hard to know if you are just teenagers, Israeli / Demonazi bots or just cam boys on downtime. Either way, you parrots have nothing to contribute.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2726762]There is no reason for Pelosi to make the trip, very bad decision, but this what Dem. Do best, make horrible / risky decisions.[/QUOTE]Yeah, if China attacked Taiwan, I might volunteer my services to help them and definitely support arming them. All the false rhetoric used with Ukraine would be true with Taiwan. My understanding is the people in Taiwan would fight to the last man.

That said, the best refs, cops, and pols are not ones that escalate tensions but de-escalate them. That was something Obama was actually a master at that Biden is clueless on. With Biden, there are all these inflammatory definitive and often wrong statements. China would not be justified in attacking Taiwan but why do these dumb Dems have to keep provoking them?

[QUOTE=Travv;2726793]Switzerland has gone for centuries without foreign wars by looking to its defenses and minding its own business. Would that American politicians would copy Switzerland's aim to putting its own people first and not using them as cannon fodder in foreign disputes. Those seeking to involve Americans in another foreign war should set the example by practicing what they preach and signing up with the International Legion themselves![/QUOTE]Hmmm. Switzerland minding its own business? I think Swiss neutrality has hinged a lot on its special position as the banker of last resort. You could plunder assets, deposit them in Swiss banks and still access the proceeds from abroad if you lose power.

I'd say Switzerland is minding everyone's business.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2727112]Yeah, if China attacked Taiwan, I might volunteer my services to help them and definitely support arming them. All the false rhetoric used with Ukraine would be true with Taiwan. My understanding is the people in Taiwan would fight to the last man.[/QUOTE]LOL. Taiwanese are like the world's biggest weenies. Haven't you been there and seen it? They are all aboard the globohomo express.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2727112]Yeah, if China attacked Taiwan, I might volunteer my services to help them and definitely support arming them. All the false rhetoric used with Ukraine would be true with Taiwan. My understanding is the people in Taiwan would fight to the last man.[/QUOTE]Really?

So Putin's barbaric killing, raping and torturing Ukrainians in his war of choice is the false rhetoric? But Taiwan that hasn't been attacked yet, has your sympathy?

Something's not right here. It seems to me that this is a personal choice. You either hate Ukraine or love Russia too much.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2727232]Really?

So Putin's barbaric killing, raping and torturing Ukrainians in his war of choice is the false rhetoric? But Taiwan that hasn't been attacked yet, has your sympathy?

Something's not right here. It seems to me that this is a personal choice. You either hate Ukraine or love Russia too much.[/QUOTE]As usual you are wrong. We want the war to end. Either way Ukraine is totally screwed, as usual.

Pres. Z. Is going to get everyone killed and there will be nothing left to fight over. I guess this is Winning strategy, he must be a Democratic, they love to lose.

Switzerland has a first class military and would be hard to take out. Both the Nazis and the (Nazi lite) Americans cracked Switzerland's bank secrecy laws by threats and guile. Switzerland is also a first class industrial power, perhaps as rich as parts of Northern Italy and Austria but rich nonetheless.

To repeat: You are an American, a moron. You do not belong here. You and your ilk have made shit of this thread, just like Americans make shit of everything.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2727116]Hmmm. Switzerland minding its own business? I think Swiss neutrality has hinged a lot on its special position as the banker of last resort. You could plunder assets, deposit them in Swiss banks and still access the proceeds from abroad if you lose power.

I'd say Switzerland is minding everyone's business.[/QUOTE]

New Batches Of Ukrainian Troops Quit the Fight as Russia Grinds On.

Published August 5, 2022 at 7:00 am by Larry Johnson.

Ukraine's President Zelensky is spooked and having a tough time hiding it. In remarks made on August 3rd, Zelensky is complaining that Europe is dragging its feet in supplying financial support to keep Ukraine afloat:

Zelensky then made a startling admission about who is winning the war in Ukraine:

"We still cannot break the advantage of the Russian army in artillery and in manpower, and this is very felt in the battles, especially in the Donbass – Peski, Avdiivka, and other directions. It's just hell. It can't even be described in words. "

When you consider the fact that Ukraine's armed forces outnumbered the Russians who invaded by a factor of 3 to 1, then you have to ask–exactly what "advantage" does the outnumbered Russian army enjoy? The answer is simple–Russia has air supremacy, superior intelligence and electronic warfare capabilities. It is targeting Ukrainian forward command centers and destroying senior brigade and regimental commanders. This strategy decapitates the chain of command on the frontlines and subjects the troops crouching in trenches and bunkers to seemingly unrelenting barrages of missiles and artillery shells. The result is simple–it demoralizes the troops.

Evidence of this is emerging on social media. First up, the 56th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine declaring it will no longer fight because there is no supply and they are being sent to certain death. There is a similar message from men fromthe 58 brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Some of them deserted and returned home to Konotop, in the Sumy region. Like the men in the 56th brigade, these soldiers complain that they were sent to the front with no proper weapons or equipment just to be pounded by Russian artillery. Rather than serve as cannon fodder they left their frontline positions and headed back home with their weapons. . . "

Maybe the Ukies should enlist Afghans. These dudes have defeated both the Russian and American armies! If they can't, there are always plenty of chickenhawks, armchair generals, keyboard commandoes and social justice warriors posting on ISG to send draft notices!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2727372]As usual you are wrong. We want the war to end. Either way Ukraine is totally screwed, as usual.

Pres. Z. Is going to get everyone killed and there will be nothing left to fight over. I guess this is Winning strategy, he must be a Democratic, they love to lose.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Travv;2728155]New Batches Of Ukrainian Troops Quit the Fight as Russia Grinds On.
![/QUOTE]Beats me why there are not more Ukrainian desertions. They are like the Wehrmacht who fought on, with high moral, until the very end for a bunch of losers and grifters. Zelensky and his fellow criminals have skimmed a fortune none of us here can comprehend. That is before you factor in their sales of arms, HIMARS etc.

I was expecting the trolls to show up praising Nancy Pelosi. Won't be long now, as the monkey said when he got his tail cut.

[QUOTE=Socker;2726843]
Now, 50 years later we have Ukraine vs Russia and once again the west is trying to stop Russia (still communist to some) from taking over vast territories. We're trying to stop communism all over again but this time is different because everyone has nukes. Nuclear war has never been closer to destroying humanity than it is today. Propaganda was expertly used in the Vietnam era and it's being used now. This conflict would be over now had we stayed out of it and Ukraine would be more intact w less dead Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]Ukraine doesn't want to bend over and grab their ankles and give away their land and identity. They certainly don't want you, Elvis, Pedro, Drama Queen, or Tucker deciding what is best for them. So myself, the vast majority of Americans, and even the vast majority of Republican politicians want to send them weapons, and that's what we are going to continue to do.

We did stop the USSR, who had nukes from the 50's onwards. You can bet your life that South Korea is glad we opposed them. Don't forget that detail! Now the enemy is authoritarianism which is an ideology that spreads well beyond the now defunct USSR, is found in a substantial minority in Western Europe, and is well represented in the US with Carlson, the Trump cult, "Stop the Steal," and the efforts to overturn a democratic election and all varieties of looney conspiracy theories. Your analogy doesn't work. Russia today has an economy about the size of Mexico. They aren't entitled to any "sphere of influence" as no one wants anything to do with them but Iran. Unlike the former USSR they are engaging in nuclear saber rattling, which is an act of desperation. We the US and NATO don't back down from such from tyrants or anyone else, and for obvious reasons, primarily because it shows weakness and sends the wrong message. Ukraine gets weapons. If Vlad touches NATO it's on as it should be.

[QUOTE=Socker;2726843]I'm always searching for the least biased news. Maybe you can point me towards a more fair and honest news source. Thanks.[/QUOTE]About anything but Carlson would be a big step up. LOL he is conspiracy theory peddler, white grievance inciter that laughs at people who take him seriously while laughing all the way to the bank. That was his defense in a liable suit, and it worked, the judge finding it hard to believe that there's anyone out there dumb enough to believe him. He's not "news. " So with that in mind, take a look around. Google is your friend. The big three, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, London Times, the last three from a right-center angle are a big step up from Fox which for the most part isn't news. That especially applies to the evening hours. It all birthed from the "entertainer" Rush Limbaugh who never had the balls to take the debate stage in a neutral environment where his claims could be examined.

[URL]https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/greedy-associates/tucker-carlson-successfully-argues-nobody-really-believes-tucker-carlson-is-reporting-facts/[/URL]

P.S. All of these points have been made innumerable times on this thread by myself and have only been ignored while the same pro-Russia, isolationist talking points have been repeated ad nauseam. Our side though has gotten tired of going in circles so have moved on to more important matters, like working and earning money for vacations. And here's something else to put in your pocket, as you seem at least somewhat sincere, calling something a "fact" or "the truth" never makes it a fact or the truth. Or in other words, asserting something as true never makes it true. These are the two fallacies in play:

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition[/URL]

[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726865]These fellas are unbelievable. They are dying to get on their four, spread the cheeks and let world dictatorships like Russia and China have their way with them.[/QUOTE]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.

What is it any good for? More fucking and less fighting please!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729078]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.[/QUOTE]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2729194]What is it any good for? More fucking and less fighting please!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk[/URL][/QUOTE]As has been said so many times on this thread, that's all up to Putin who chose that path.

More support for your statement below from Gonzalo Lira:

"For those new to this blog and unfamiliar with TTG, TTG is a retired US Army Special Forces officer of Lithuanian heritage. He no longer thinks rationally about war. His hatred of all things Russian cloud his judgment. He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obvious–Russia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively. TTG insists that the arrival of HIMARS and M777's are game changers and, wait for it, the Ukrainians will mount the ultimate offensive and push the Russians back to Moscow. Normally, I would not want to waste time to engage such nonsense but in this case I think it is warranted.

. . The fact that Ukraine had a three to one advantage and were embedded in defensive positions should have led to the defeat of the Russians. One of the traditional military doctrines is that an army fighting a foe who is on the defense must have at least a three to one advantage if they have any hope of prevailing in the fight. Well guess what–Russia has turned that doctrine on its head. We now have a case study (on-going) of the first time that an inferior force (in terms of numbers) is steadily defeating an entrenched, fortified enemy with three times the numbers. There is not one area in Ukraine where the Ukraine army has pushed the Russians out of territory they have occupied and held it against Russian counter attacks. Not one. The Russian feint towards Kiev in early March does not count. Western propaganda insists this was a tremendous Ukrainian victory. But Russia used that operation to fix Ukrainian forces around Kiev so that the Russian, Donetsk and Luhansk forces could mass for the offensive to retake the Donbas. And that is exactly what the Special Military Operation has been doing over the last five months.

The only "offense" we are seeing from Ukraine is the shelling of civilians in the Donbas. This does highlight one shortcoming of the Russian SMO–the lack of effective, comprehensive counter battery fire. It is worth noting that the areas being targeted by Ukraine are in the Western part of the Donbas occupied by Russia and its allied Republics (I. E. , Donetsk and Luhansk). Killing a few civilians in cities in the Donbas with indiscriminate shelling–while horrific for the families who loose loved ones–does not win the war for Ukraine. In fact, it reinforces its image as a lawless violator of human rights. Still, it is up to Russia to put in place the necessary intelligence platforms required to quickly identify the source of the fires and destroy them. Ukrainian artillery and HIMMARS will not stop Russia's allied offensive and force a retreat. Neither will it force a stalemate. Russia has defacto air supremacy and has intact tank battalions and a plethora of artillery and missiles that it continues to rain down on Ukrainian forces. . . ".

Full article: [URL]http://www.stationgossip.com/2022/08/russia-is-slowly-and-methodically.html[/URL].

Photo: US Troops Enter Ukraine! LOL.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729078]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.[/QUOTE]Pauline, you and XMan do have a few things in common with Pres. Z. You are delusional, living in a fantasy world and no desire to negotiate. Unfortunately, many will die from this ridiculous war. Russia will get the ports and Ukraine will end up with almost nothing, but in your world that is a win.

You do not have one thing in common with Pres. Z. , you are not as corrupt as he is. The truth will come out some day.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.[/QUOTE]That's what I call service. My post wasn't up 30 minutes and you've already posted a reply. Stupid Shit in Kyiv is no doubt a great place to build your life around. Wink.

You whine with the same mantra over and over daily for months but your only alternative is for Ukraine to surrender their country, their culture and identity, toss their women to the wolves, accept tortures and executions, and submit their children to deportations and "re-education. " That isn't an option for them nor do they want it, irrespective of Zelensky. It's also not an option for the West to look the other way at this aggression against a democratic partner.

You are delusional in that your analysis is way overly simplistic with use of the black and white thinking fallacy. There are other possible outcomes besides a complete Russian defeat and surrender or else Ukraine should bend over and grab their ankles.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white[/URL]

There's unlikely to be any clear cut winner and loser as in one side unconditionally surrenders. Even if Russia managed to occupy Ukraine there would still be armed resistance. Occupying territory is one thing. Holding it is another. Russia isn't going to use nukes as that's suicide. Even if only tactical nukes they'd lose the few friends they have left in the world. So with that hardly at risk and NATO weapons and greater motivation among the Ukrainians in play, it's a pretty fair fight. Russian casualties and humiliation have been high, and it would be much worse if our weapons support wasn't restrained and delayed. Your prediction of Ukrainian demise within one week proved not only laughable, but the Ruskies lost key battles running from Kyiv and Kharkiv. Make a video game of that. Currently the Ukrainians are staging counter offensives in the South. The outcome will likely come at the negotiating table where Ukraine will be in a much better position than your bend over and grab their ankles, throw their identity, culture, women, and children to the wolves suggestion. While Russia has already lost the war with the failures of their key objectives, embarrassments on the battlefield, weighty economic sanctions, and worldwide pariah status.

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

From the Western perspective, we've done what we had to do, sent the message that if one wants to change borders in Europe with aggression then there will be consequences. The appeasement you suggest of course invites more aggression. Thankfully that's how our politicians and most Americans see it. If that troubles you then you are free to surrender the freedoms you are enjoying and move to totalitarian Russia, say something they don't like, get caught with a joint and spend 15 years in Siberia. But instead you'll just hang out in the US all day posting in Stupid Shit in Kyiv. None of your predictions have panned out so far so we'll see how it goes. That or tell us all about everything you heard and saw in the Ukraine when we know you've never been. Wink.

P.S. Gas prices dropping, 50+ days and running.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process[/QUOTE]Well you got all the Russo propaganda / lingo down, now all you need is a "Z" t-shirt to wear. Or maybe you can come up with a Z flag to fly beside your Trump flag. I'm sure all the "incident" people in your trailer park will be very impressed. LOL Meanwhile the vast majority of even Republicans support lethal aid to Ukraine so we are in good shape.

Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=Travv;2729266]More support for your statement below from Gonzalo Lira:

"For those new to this blog and unfamiliar with TTG, TTG is a retired US Army Special Forces officer of Lithuanian heritage. He no longer thinks rationally about war. His hatred of all things Russian cloud his judgment. He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obviousRussia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively. TTG insists that the arrival of HIMARS and M777's are game changers and, wait for it, the Ukrainians will mount the ultimate offensive and push the Russians back to Moscow. Normally, I would not want to waste time to engage such nonsense but in this case I think it is warranted.

. . The fact that [b]Ukraine had a three to one advantage[/b] and were embedded in defensive positions should have led to the defeat of the Russians. [/QUOTE]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000.

Paramilitary: 250,000; 50,000.

Tanks: 12,420; 2,596.

Armored Vehicles: 30,122; 12,303.

Total Aircraft: 4,945; 387.

Total Helicopters: 2,087; 146.

Naval Fleet: 605; 38.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729323]That's what I call service. My post wasn't up 30 minutes and you've already posted a reply. Stupid Shit in Kyiv is no doubt a great place to build your life around. Wink.

You whine with the same mantra over and over daily for months but your only alternative is for Ukraine to surrender their country, their culture and identity, toss their women to the wolves, accept tortures and executions, and submit their children to deportations and "re-education. " That isn't an option for them nor do they want it, irrespective of Zelensky. It's also not an option for the West to look the other way at this aggression against a democratic partner.

You are delusional in that your analysis is way overly simplistic with use of the black and white thinking fallacy. There are other possible outcomes besides a complete Russian defeat and surrender or else Ukraine should bend over and grab their ankles.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white[/URL]

There's unlikely to be any clear cut winner and loser as in one side unconditionally surrenders. Even if Russia managed to occupy Ukraine there would still be armed resistance. Occupying territory is one thing. Holding it is another. Russia isn't going to use nukes as that's suicide. Even if only tactical nukes they'd lose the few friends they have left in the world. So with that hardly at risk and NATO weapons and greater motivation among the Ukrainians in play, it's a pretty fair fight. Russian casualties and humiliation have been high, and it would be much worse if our weapons support wasn't restrained and delayed. Your prediction of Ukrainian demise within one week proved not only laughable, but the Ruskies lost key battles running from Kyiv and Kharkiv. Make a video game of that. Currently the Ukrainians are staging counter offensives in the South. The outcome will likely come at the negotiating table where Ukraine will be in a much better position than your bend over and grab their ankles, throw their identity, culture, women, and children to the wolves suggestion. While Russia has already lost the war with the failures of their key objectives, embarrassments on the battlefield, weighty economic sanctions, and worldwide pariah status.

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

From the Western perspective, we've done what we had to do, sent the message that if one wants to change borders in Europe with aggression then there will be consequences. The appeasement you suggest of course invites more aggression. Thankfully that's how our politicians and most Americans see it. If that troubles you then you are free to surrender the freedoms you are enjoying and move to totalitarian Russia, say something they don't like, get caught with a joint and spend 15 years in Siberia. But instead you'll just hang out in the US all day posting in Stupid Shit in Kyiv. None of your predictions have panned out so far so we'll see how it goes. That or tell us all about everything you heard and saw in the Ukraine when we know you've never been. Wink.

P.S. Gas prices dropping, 50+ days and running.[/QUOTE]You have never been to Ukraine, but why would that matter. Yes, good news that gas prices are falling.

Occasionally, maybe you could write a post about a girl or getting laid. I spent Saturday in MTY and now I am CDMX, having a great trip. You are probably slumming somewhere in Colombia, chasing fat chicks.

[QUOTE=Travv;2729266] He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obviousRussia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively.[/QUOTE]Then what the hell are they waiting for? 6 months in and as it stands now they've lost in the range of 40 to 75 K personnel, 1,768 of those silly jack in the box death trap tanks, 4,014 armored combat vehicles, 936 artillery systems, 223 aircraft, 117 air defense systems, 2,914 vehicles and tankers, 15 ships, etc. Etc. And all for marginal gains and two humiliating tuck tail and run defeats at Ukraine's two largest cities. Throw in the heavy economic sanctions, the many grieving Russian families of the war dead who are scared to speak out, the fact that win, lose or draw Russia is a pariah for generations, and thus far it's a lousy return on the investment, to say the least. Better shit or get off the pot. That or start to take negotiations seriously. Ukraine can field an army in the one million range and support from the West shows little signs of waning.

Puts can start by dropping the "de-Nazification" hogwash, while those on the extreme right represent only 2% of the voting population of Ukraine and have won no seats in parliament. And no the Jewish president, son of Holocaust survivors isn't a Nazi plant. LOL In case no one has noticed the Ruskies have a penchant for silly conspiracy theories just like the MAGAs, and the stance is always that of victimization while acting as the aggressor. That better explains Trump's role as Russo suck up while some of his followers have taken the same cue, shameful and unAmerican.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?[/QUOTE]Based on that criteria you'll be posting here every day, several times a day as the supply of lies, half-truths, and logical fallacies is boundless. Best policy is to not login to the site if you have more important and productive things to do.

You also forgot to tally the unofficial and official assistance of the US Army as shown in the original attached photo entering Ukraine! The power of US Diversity and Gay Pride will defeat Russian Masculinity and the Patriarchy! LOL!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000..[/QUOTE]XMan you finally wrote a good report. I never thought Ukraine had a 3-1 edge. The rest of his report is correct about the desertions and as the war drags on it will become a bigger issue for Ukraine. They have no reserve units and grandparents do not count.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729496]Then what the hell are they waiting for? 6 months in and as it stands now they've lost in the range of 40 to 75 K personnel, 1,768 of those silly jack in the box death trap tanks, 4,014 armored combat vehicles, 936 artillery systems, 223 aircraft, 117 air defense systems, 2,914 vehicles and tankers, 15 ships, etc. Etc. And all for marginal gains and two humiliating tuck tail and run defeats at Ukraine's two largest cities. Throw in the heavy economic sanctions, the many grieving Russian families of the war dead who are scared to speak out, the fact that win, lose or draw Russia is a pariah for generations, and thus far it's a lousy return on the investment, to say the least. Better shit or get off the pot. That or start to take negotiations seriously. Ukraine can field an army in the one million range and support from the West shows little signs of waning.

Puts can start by dropping the "de-Nazification" hogwash, while those on the extreme right represent only 2% of the voting population of Ukraine and have won no seats in parliament. And no the Jewish president, son of Holocaust survivors isn't a Nazi plant. LOL In case no one has noticed the Ruskies have a penchant for silly conspiracy theories just like the MAGAs, and the stance is always that of victimization while acting as the aggressor. That better explains Trump's role as Russo suck up while some of his followers have taken the same cue, shameful and unAmerican.[/QUOTE]Pauline talk about lying. Where in the Hell is Ukraine, going to get 1 million man army. (That is trained, under 50 and sorry females do not count. You are completely delusional) You really no nothing about Ukraine. Stop watching CNN and all the other fake news. This is the words negotiations have come out of your month. Both parties should be negotiating, including your hero Pres. Z. The head clown in charge.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729503]Based on that criteria you'll be posting here every day, several times a day as the supply of lies, half-truths, and logical fallacies is boundless. Best policy is to not login to the site if you have more important and productive things to do.[/QUOTE]LOL, you've got a point.

But Travv's posted a direct and vicious falsehood, not their typical half-truths or logical fallacies. That he's now trying to say, oh no, it wasn't me, just some nutso blogger, makes it even more pathetic, IMHO.

Gonzalo Lira gave the number of Russian troops assigned to the invasion. You gave the total number of Russian troops available. Many of the Russian troops are posted on the Chinese or other borders and are not available for use in Ukraine since they are protecting distant regions. I googled and found this number of troops from a neutral website link posted below which roughly agrees with the number of Russian troops that Gonzalo Lira said were being used. Since Ukraine doesn't have to defend its border with Poland, it has freed up Ukie troops but still has not stopped Russia from taking the Donbass region. Seems to me Gonzalo Lira is correct!

Also, why are you still posting here? Shouldn't you be at the Ukrainian Embassy as was suggested a few days ago, taking the Ukie military oath for the International Legion and preparing to take your place in the trenches on the Eastern Front near the Donbass?

I suspect the biggest battle will be to get the chickenhawks, keyboard commandos and call of duty Rambos from their mommies basement and get them enlisted in the Ukie Legion! The Ukies should be able to draft a brigade of chickenhawks off of ISG posters that drool for war but refuse to leave their Xbox game consoles and head out to the Ukrainian trenches where they demand the rest of us be sent! LOL.

How many troops has Russia sent into invasion of Ukraine?

Estimates of the total number of Russian forces involved in the invasion of Ukraine vary but around 150,000 troops are thought to be deployed in total.

[URL]https://en.as.com/en/2022/02/24/latest_news/1645729870_894320.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000.

Paramilitary: 250,000; 50,000.

Tanks: 12,420; 2,596.

Armored Vehicles: 30,122; 12,303.

Total Aircraft: 4,945; 387.

Total Helicopters: 2,087; 146.

Naval Fleet: 605; 38.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Travv;2730160]


How many troops has Russia sent into invasion of Ukraine?

Estimates of the total number of Russian forces involved in the invasion of Ukraine vary but around 150,000 troops are thought to be deployed in total.

[URL]https://en.as.com/en/2022/02/24/latest_news/1645729870_894320.html[/URL][/QUOTE]I'm not arguing with you that the main 2 reasons Russians fucked up so spectacularly are their eternal arrogance and sheer incompetence. That wouldn't be the first time in their history, of course. They decided to show up, rain fire on Ukrainian cities, kill a few hundred civilians, and wait till Ukrainians drop their drawers and bow down to the boss.

That doesn't matter though. Even if your sources are correct, and even if we assume that the ENTIRE Ukrainian army from the get go was fighting the advancing Russian troops along the 700-mile front line (a laughably impossible assumption, because the attack took AFU by surprise) -- even then your and your boy Gonzalo's "3 to 1" formula flies out of the window.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[QUOTE=Travv;2730160]Gonzalo Lira gave the number of Russian troops assigned to the invasion. You gave the total number of Russian troops available. Many of the Russian troops are posted on the Chinese or other borders and are not available for use in Ukraine since they are protecting distant regions. I googled and found this number of troops from a neutral website link posted below which roughly agrees with the number of Russian troops that Gonzalo Lira said were being used. Since Ukraine doesn't have to defend its border with Poland, it has freed up Ukie troops but still has not stopped Russia from taking the Donbass region. Seems to me Gonzalo Lira is correct!

Also, why are you still posting here? Shouldn't you be at the Ukrainian Embassy as was suggested a few days ago, taking the Ukie military oath for the International Legion and preparing to take your place in the trenches on the Eastern Front near the Donbass?

I suspect the biggest battle will be to get the chickenhawks, keyboard commandos and call of duty Rambos from their mommies basement and get them enlisted in the Ukie Legion! The Ukies should be able to draft a brigade of chickenhawks off of ISG posters that drool for war but refuse to leave their Xbox game consoles and head out to the Ukrainian trenches where they demand the rest of us be sent! LOL.

How many troops has Russia sent into invasion of Ukraine?

Estimates of the total number of Russian forces involved in the invasion of Ukraine vary but around 150,000 troops are thought to be deployed in total.

[URL]https://en.as.com/en/2022/02/24/latest_news/1645729870_894320.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Your quoting an article from 26 February 2022 ?

A good Guess about how many troops / Meccernaries Russia have in Ukraine would be +300.000 that's been or are involved, this counts all troops, including 200 & 300 Status.

Then people talk about the Global Firepower rankings.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

I always been saying this is BS.

One thing is to count how many Tanks Russia have, when knowing little bit about russia and there way to operate then you need count how many tanks are infact WORKING.

If Russia was so strong as soem people still think, then Ukrain would be fighting inside Kyiv already, also the Air defence is still working in Ukraine inclduign planes.

I myself personally seen 4 Newly made Landingsstrips for fighting planes, seen more then 20 planes parked at these (different planes, tail tag).

To think the Russians are winning is based on what proff?

Last month they gained 0. 02% of land compared the month before.

Before suggesting me to join the Foreign legion, then let me come before you there.

I'm workign with The foreign legion but as Support staff, on the eve of 23 Feb., I prepared the Bagpack and the weapons we had in house and was ready to drive.

On the 24 aot of us who was ready as foreigners was asked to wait and bette make noise and get support down.

My Team (4 guys) managed to get more then 75 highly trained European soldiers down and equip them and they was send into battle and helped liberate Irpin / Bucha area.

No dead ones yet of these, but some with injuries.

All the ones I spoken with, everyone of them says that the Russians using old tactics at best or else just running without any tactics and they where unprepared and poorly trained.

Newsweek.

. . In just the last few days, the narrative has palpably shifted. First, Thomas Friedman of the New York Times sent up a trial balloon, a clear signal straight from one of the White House's most dependable stenographers:

Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, USA Officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine's leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky—considerably more than has been reported.

What are those limits regarding Ukraine? Well, for starters, Zelensky rules much like his adversary, the universally denounced Putin, does. Zelensky shut down all opposition media in Ukraine, then banned opposition political parties. He declared that Russia would have to kill every single citizen of Kyiv to get to him, but also found time to pose for a melodramatic Annie Leibovitz portrait spread for American fashion magazine Vogue. Zelensky also fired the Ukrainian equivalent of the USA Attorney General and the head of the CIA, on the very same day, perhaps during breaks from his grandiose photo shoot.

Like Friedman, CBS News apparently got the memo to start tarnishing Zelensky's halo. That network explored the folly of sending a mountain of USA Taxpayer money into one of the most corrupt countries on Earth, though later deleted its tweet on the topic. CBS admitted that vast amounts of American largesse has been pilfered, conceding that "much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the USA Is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines. " CBS also quoted an on-the-ground operative who disclosed the reality of America's generosity: "like 30 percent of it reaches its final destination. ".

So, American taxpayers borrow tens of billions of dollars their country does not have, to send fortunes to the unaccountable leader of a corrupt country, all to escalate a war in which America has no vital national interest. Oh, and during a recession with runaway inflation at home. Gotcha. That reality would be damning enough, but Zelensky just upped the ante, making American escalation even more wrongheaded. . . . Zelensky has now put out feelers to the USA's primary adversary, China, promising a "bridge to Europe".

Putin is a thug and Zelensky is a corrupt autocrat. Their battle involves no vital USA National interest. Biden's intervention harms America and worsens the plight of the Ukrainian people, who have become pawns in a battle of Black Sea oligarchs. America should insist on dialogue, negotiation, and de-escalation. If the parties refuse, then it's time for an American approach of realism and restraint, because this is simply not our fight, and Zelensky sure as hell is not our fighter. Steve Cortez.

Comment: The sane solution here is for the USA to remain neutral like Switzerland and sell arms and supplies to both sides for cash. However, this option will not occur since "much of the billions of dollars of. . . Aid that the US is sending to Ukraine" is skimmed and sold, presumably by the Ukrainian mafia with kickbacks to "The Big Guy" and other politicians. Those who are chickenhawks here should stop trying to get others to fight for them (Hawk for war) and stop being Chickens themselves and enlist in the Ukie Legion! Practice what you preach! It's a rich politicians'$ war and a poor man's fight. If this is what you want, enlist in the Ukie Legion and leave the rest of us out of it!

[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-narrative-shifting-opinion-1731875[/URL]

[QUOTE=Travv;2730443]Newsweek.

. . In just the last few days, the narrative has palpably shifted. First, Thomas Friedman of the New York Times sent up a trial balloon, a clear signal straight from one of the White House's most dependable stenographers:

Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, USA Officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine's leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyconsiderably more than has been reported.

What are those limits regarding Ukraine? Well, for starters, Zelensky rules much like his adversary, the universally denounced Putin, does. Zelensky shut down all opposition media in Ukraine, then banned opposition political parties. He declared that Russia would have to kill every single citizen of Kyiv to get to him, but also found time to pose for a melodramatic Annie Leibovitz portrait spread for American fashion magazine Vogue. Zelensky also fired the Ukrainian equivalent of the USA Attorney General and the head of the CIA, on the very same day, perhaps during breaks from his grandiose photo shoot.

Like Friedman, CBS News apparently got the memo to start tarnishing Zelensky's halo. That network explored the folly of sending a mountain of USA Taxpayer money into one of the most corrupt countries on Earth, though later deleted its tweet on the topic. CBS admitted that vast amounts of American largesse has been pilfered, conceding that "much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the USA Is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines. " CBS also quoted an on-the-ground operative who disclosed the reality of America's generosity: "like 30 percent of it reaches its final destination. ".

So, American taxpayers borrow tens of billions of dollars their country does not have, to send fortunes to the unaccountable leader of a corrupt country, all to escalate a war in which America has no vital national interest. Oh, and during a recession with runaway inflation at home. Gotcha. That reality would be damning enough, but Zelensky just upped the ante, making American escalation even more wrongheaded. . . . Zelensky has now put out feelers to the USA's primary adversary, China, promising a "bridge to Europe".

Putin is a thug and Zelensky is a corrupt autocrat. Their battle involves no vital USA National interest. Biden's intervention harms America and worsens the plight of the Ukrainian people, who have become pawns in a battle of Black Sea oligarchs. America should insist on dialogue, negotiation, and de-escalation. If the parties refuse, then it's time for an American approach of realism and restraint, because this is simply not our fight, and Zelensky sure as hell is not our fighter. Steve Cortez.

Comment: The sane solution here is for the USA to remain neutral like Switzerland and sell arms and supplies to both sides for cash. However, this option will not occur since "much of the billions of dollars of. . . Aid that the US is sending to Ukraine" is skimmed and sold, presumably by the Ukrainian mafia with kickbacks to "The Big Guy" and other politicians. Those who are chickenhawks here should stop trying to get others to fight for them (Hawk for war) and stop being Chickens themselves and enlist in the Ukie Legion! Practice what you preach! It's a rich politicians'$ war and a poor man's fight. If this is what you want, enlist in the Ukie Legion and leave the rest of us out of it!

[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-narrative-shifting-opinion-1731875[/URL][/QUOTE]Linking to an article that's an Opinion Article what's your point with that?

You complain that Zelinsky uses his power to fires people he want to change in the Government.

Thats fully inside the scope of the democratic way to rule.

Zelinsky been replacing alot of people lately, and In my opinion its because there is now a need for different people.

Same as a Company, when you start Person X is probbaly a Good CEO, but after 5 years he is maybe a Bad CEO because the company is somewhere else then 5 years ago.

You write it like 70% of the help is stolen, which is untrue, alot of the promised help are not arrived yet, and some of it is comming slower then promised.

To Call Zelinsky a Autocrat show you don't know what an Autocrat is.

There is No proff of larger scale stealing of the Weapons help, yes there been some stealing and its beeing delt with.

There also been private people who collected money and used them for own gains, this also beeing delt with.

Zelinsky also not banned all opposition political parties, the Rada banned all Communist / Russian Parties until the war is over.

There is still many Opposition parties operating today, including big one with members in Rada (Poroschenko etc).

Most of what you write is plain old BS, you not even know what a Presidenst job is, you complain that he istrying to get attentions of the media, which is how you infact make sure Ukrain is not forgotten.

I like that you want the the USA should insist in dialogue.

You remember Russia said they would NOT invade?

How do you have a positive dialogue with a asshole who one days says one thing and the next day do the opposite of that?

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2730668]How do you have a positive dialogue with a asshole who one days says one thing and the next day do the opposite of that?[/QUOTE]That is the very problem here, arguing with idiots like you. The role of a President differs from country to country. Some have executive power, others do not. Zelensky has not only banned most opposition parties but locked up their leaders. You hold up Poroshenko as some kind of good guy, the guy who banned Russian and helped kick start this whole mess. I am waiting on a woman to drop round to suck my cock. Much better than reading your nonsense or of anyone else who thinks that the leader of a country should wave his cock around in public.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2730668]Linking to an article that's an Opinion Article what's your point with that?

You complain that Zelinsky uses his power to fires people he want to change in the Government.

Thats fully inside the scope of the democratic way to rule.

Zelinsky been replacing alot of people lately, and In my opinion its because there is now a need for different people.

Same as a Company, when you start Person X is probbaly a Good CEO, but after 5 years he is maybe a Bad CEO because the company is somewhere else then 5 years ago.

You write it like 70% of the help is stolen, which is untrue, alot of the promised help are not arrived yet, and some of it is comming slower then promised.

To Call Zelinsky a Autocrat show you don't know what an Autocrat is.[/QUOTE]This is not a good thing for Ukraine. If you are having to change personnel this late in the game it just means big trouble. I am sure reality is starting to sink in for Pres. Z. Ukraine is in a no win situation, it will only get worse.

"Refusing to follow several western nations to impose damaging costs on Russia for its unwarranted invasion of a sovereign Ukraine, the right wing president Jair Bolsonaro criticized Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky saying that Brazil would "adopt a neutral stance on Ukraine" and will not impose sanctions on Russia.

Speaking at a news conference while on vacation on Sunday, January 27, Bolsonaro said Ukrainians had "trusted a comedian with the fate of a nation" — referring to Zelensky's former career as an actor and comedian. . . ".

That's some stupid shxt right there! What could possibly go wrong with putting a comedian in charge of negotiation with the Russians? Maybe a giant Russian shxthammer down on the entire country when the Russians realized he was a *******? Z to Ukrainians: You fxcked up! You trusted us with the fate of your nation!

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2730677]That is the very problem here, arguing with idiots like you. The role of a President differs from country to country. Some have executive power, others do not. Zelensky has not only banned most opposition parties but locked up their leaders. You hold up Poroshenko as some kind of good guy, the guy who banned Russian and helped kick start this whole mess. I am waiting on a woman to drop round to suck my cock. Much better than reading your nonsense or of anyone else who thinks that the leader of a country should wave his cock around in public.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2730677]That is the very problem here, arguing with idiots like you. The role of a President differs from country to country. Some have executive power, others do not. Zelensky has not only banned most opposition parties but locked up their leaders. You hold up Poroshenko as some kind of good guy, the guy who banned Russian and helped kick start this whole mess. I am waiting on a woman to drop round to suck my cock. Much better than reading your nonsense or of anyone else who thinks that the leader of a country should wave his cock around in public.[/QUOTE]So who did zelinsky lock up after the war broke out?

To say he banned most oppositions parties is an lie if you don't know that then please read up on it.

The only person who started this Mess is Putin.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2730765]This is not a good thing for Ukraine. If you are having to change personnel this late in the game it just means big trouble. I am sure reality is starting to sink in for Pres. Z. Ukraine is in a no win situation, it will only get worse.[/QUOTE]I don't know if you been in ukraine after 24 February?

And I don't know where you get your info from.

But yes we can agree that its in general is bad to changes these position these times, but if it needs then it need be done.

To say Ukrain is in a No Win situation Could you please explain why you think this?

Because the Repports I'm getting from the front says different.

And last month Russia managed to take 0. 02% land compared to the month before, and this month they lost more then gained.

[QUOTE=Travv;2730820]"Refusing to follow several western nations to impose damaging costs on Russia for its unwarranted invasion of a sovereign Ukraine, the right wing president Jair Bolsonaro criticized Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky saying that Brazil would "adopt a neutral stance on Ukraine" and will not impose sanctions on Russia.

Speaking at a news conference while on vacation on Sunday, January 27, Bolsonaro said Ukrainians had "trusted a comedian with the fate of a nation" referring to Zelensky's former career as an actor and comedian. . . ".

That's some stupid shxt right there! What could possibly go wrong with putting a comedian in charge of negotiation with the Russians? Maybe a giant Russian shxthammer down on the entire country when the Russians realized he was a *******? Z to Ukrainians: You fxcked up! You trusted us with the fate of your nation![/QUOTE]Zelinsky was not my favorit in the last election.

But I can say he probably been the president that done most good fro Ukraine the last 12 years if not more.

Many people starts their carrers one place and end up another.

Yes he Is an comedian, but he was also a pretty big business owner succesfully, which I think is a good thing as a politican person.

I have when Politic people only have worked in that field and never had their hand dirty in the real life.

In my opinion I see Zelinsky use a lot of advisors that have better knowledge then him on certain points and listen to those, excatly as most western leaders to (whaterver its business or politics).

So to continue with this that he was A comedian, seriously? Grow up.

And what so. Richard Branson, Abraham Lincoln they also dropped out of school but see where that landed them.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2731207]So who did zelinsky lock up after the war broke out?

To say he banned most oppositions parties is an lie if you don't know that then please read up on it.

The only person who started this Mess is Putin.[/QUOTE]Viktor Medvedchuk is a prisoner of CockMan Zelensky.

Here is a a link to parties Cock Man has banned. Stick to rimming hairy Ukrainian asses.

This "Mess" began when you Nazis started your Maidan crimes. Hopefully, you will all meet the same end Bandera met.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2731212]Viktor Medvedchuk is a prisoner of CockMan Zelensky.

Here is a a link to parties Cock Man has banned. Stick to rimming hairy Ukrainian asses.

This "Mess" began when you Nazis started your Maidan crimes. Hopefully, you will all meet the same end Bandera met.[/QUOTE]The mess started When Putin came to power.

Have you ever been to Ukraine?

I not meet any Nazi here, but I meet plenty in russia.

Viktor was first Jailed but in his house, for a major involment in coruption and also helping the occupied areas to sell coal diverteed back to Ukrain.

Then 2-3 days before the 24 February he escaped from the House (his own big manson).

Noone knew where he was, but some months after he was arrested trying to get to cross the border and in an Ukrain Uniform.

So yes Ukrain jailed him, but there are valid reasons behind it, and Viktor had a big play in the 24 February playbook.

So maybe you should try and read up on the things and not just make your own story.

Is clear that your Anti Western, sp maybe you should just go live in Chine / Russia.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2731212]Viktor Medvedchuk is a prisoner of CockMan Zelensky.

Here is a a link to parties Cock Man has banned. Stick to rimming hairy Ukrainian asses.

This "Mess" began when you Nazis started your Maidan crimes. Hopefully, you will all meet the same end Bandera met.[/QUOTE]"Pedro Morales" is a troll, who lives in St. Petersburg and is paid by Unit 54777 of the GRU.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2731642]"Pedro Morales" is a troll, who lives in St. Petersburg and is paid by Unit 54777 of the GRU.[/QUOTE]Here [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Banned_political_parties_in_Ukraine[/URL] are some of the political parties Cock Man Zelensky has banned. I forgot to post the link. He is taking the West for a mega Bn $ ride.

After your latest personalised attack on me, I flicked back through your posts to confirm what an American idiot you are. You mention a certain place. I have been there, packing. As were my friends. We were on a charity mission to rescue a fool, someone like you. There are places, you fool, you are better to go to your God like a soldier. If you are ever blessed to meet me, you will see I am Gandhi and Mother Theresa in one. Not so those friends who would slit anyone's throat in a blink (Never trust a Spic with a knife, The Naked and the Dead? Those guys who would easily handle a butterfly like me and squash a slug like you, were genuinely scared in some places and for good reason. Some places you just don't go, no matter how many Rambo cock suckers you have; not my words but theirs. I even had to get armed guards to go in and fuck the hired help (not much of a fuck but I digress) . What is the expression about your sort, fools go where angels fear to thread. The Mexican Apache thought Geronimo and his pals were putos and the Comanche were a rougher crowd; they had a point. There are much tougher around. Not a threat to you as you are just another fat Yank, who can't even eat a hamburger correctly. The point is, stick to your hamburgers and hand jobs. If you want excitement, go watch animals in a zoo. There are far more dangerous outv there in the wild, and they don't eat hamburgers, drink Coke and sniff little chicas' panties.

As regards Ukraine, Zelensky's days are numbered. Do you like that he used to expose his cock for a living. You get off on shit like that? These are rhetorical questions as you are American, a blubber whale without the nutrition.

God bless. Pray the Rosary.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2731621]The mess started When Putin came to power.

Is clear that your Anti Western, sp maybe you should just go live in Chine / Russia.[/QUOTE]Putin and Russia have nothing to do with this, except stopping your genocide.

Russia and its allies are winning, so you parasites can live in the rump state Russia, Roman ia, Poland and Hungary leave you with. You swarmed into Western Europe as economic migrants. Best stick to what you are good at: picking asparagus in Germany, strawberries in Finland and pimping out your sisters and mothers in Ukraine as hookers and surrogates. No one wants Nazis, except in a zoo.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2731642]"Pedro Morales" is a troll, who lives in St. Petersburg and is paid by Unit 54777 of the GRU.[/QUOTE]Hopefully they aren't paying him more than the Russian minimum wage as his work is quite shrill, disoriented, just shoddy. Wink.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2731655]Putin and Russia have nothing to do with this, except stopping your genocide.

Russia and its allies are winning, so you parasites can live in the rump state Russia, Roman ia, Poland and Hungary leave you with. You swarmed into Western Europe as economic migrants. Best stick to what you are good at: picking asparagus in Germany, strawberries in Finland and pimping out your sisters and mothers in Ukraine as hookers and surrogates. No one wants Nazis, except in a zoo.[/QUOTE]Only ones doing Genocide is the Russians, plenty of proff of that.

Yes yes Russia is winning, that's why the Graveyards in Russia a full of 200, and hospitals of 300.

How Can I swarm into western Euripe as E-conomic Migrant? When I'm Born and raised in one of the most rich Western Europe Countries?

You got me right on One thing, I'm infact very good at picking Asparagues.

What is your skillset?

Head Down Asss up?

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2731792]What is your skillset? Head Down Asss up?[/QUOTE]Man did you get that one right!

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2731208]

To say Ukrain is in a No Win situation Could you please explain why you think this?

Because the Repports I'm getting from the front says different.

And last month Russia managed to take 0. 02% land compared to the month before, and this month they lost more then gained.[/QUOTE]Ukrainian military is fighting brilliantly. But that's tactics. You need think strategically, big picture.

If Russia is humiliated in this war, they will retaliate by fully backing China in the eventual war over Taiwan. Technology has changed so that cutting sea lanes is much easier than in WW2, when Germany tried but failed to use submarines to cut sea lanes. In particular, drone subs and smart torpedoes / mines will soon make it easy for combined Russia / China to impose a sea blockade on Taiwan, Korea and Japan. Since all of those countries depend heavily on sea transport, they will soon concede. Concession means Taiwan accepts Chinese sovereignty, Korea and Japan become neutrals and expel USA military bases. This will be a colossal loss of prestige for the USA.

Next step is Russia agrees to back off their alliance with China is exchange for non-interference in Ukraine (and Kazakhstan, see etc). In order to avoid further defeats from China-Russia-Iran alliance, USA accepts this Russian offer and throws Ukraine under the bus. So all this current vfighting and loss of life and destruction of property will have been for nought because Ukraine is going to be a Russian dependency again eventually.

Precisely because Russia is so weak, Europeans won't object when USA decides to ally with Russia in exchange for Russia breaking with China. So in the long run, no one is coming to Ukraine's defense. By long run, I'm talking 5-20 years. Long time span to resolve situation is not good news for Ukraine, because it just means more death and destruction with the same final result. Even if Russia gets pushed all the way back to the 2014 border (no Crimea, no Donbas), Russia can just wait until USA occupied with China and strike again, next time usibg Chinese drone technology, which is getting better very fast.

I don't know what USA strategy is, and probably USA itself doesn't know. As with idiotic USA strategy in Afghanistan, military leaders just say whatever the politicians want to hear so they can get steady promotions, and the politicians follow the herd, which is increasingly scatter-brained, in case you haven't noticed. If USA actually wanted a quick victory in Ukraine, why not send huge numbers of HiMARs artillery and rockets long ago, manned by USA citizen CIA soldiers without uniforms? Fuck the rules of war: you want to win, you break rules. Answer: because USA doesn't really want to win, they just want to bleed Russia for some reason. USA Secretary of Defense actually said just that. Why bleed Russia if Russia so weak they can't possibly threaten Western Europe? It makes no sense. Though maybe explained by my comment that scatter-brained USA electorate is ultimately in charge of USA policy, at least until China moves, at which point steadier hands will seize control of the ship and the scatter-brained herd will be told to take orders instead of giving them.

Finally, remember that Ukraine has no nukes and never will have them, but Russia does have them, which is another reason USA doesn't really want Ukraine to win.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2731834]Ukrainian military is fighting brilliantly. But that's tactics. You need think strategically, big picture.

If Russia is humiliated in this war, they will retaliate by fully backing China in the eventual war over Taiwan. Technology has changed so that cutting sea lanes is much easier than in WW2, when Germany tried but failed to use submarines to cut sea lanes. In particular, drone subs and smart torpedoes / mines will soon make it easy for combined Russia / China to impose a sea blockade on Taiwan, Korea and Japan. Since all of those countries depend heavily on sea transport, they will soon concede. Concession means Taiwan accepts Chinese sovereignty, Korea and Japan become neutrals and expel USA military bases. This will be a colossal loss of prestige for the USA.

Next step is Russia agrees to back off their alliance with China is exchange for non-interference in Ukraine (and Kazakhstan, see etc). In order to avoid further defeats from China-Russia-Iran alliance, USA accepts this Russian offer and throws Ukraine under the bus. So all this current vfighting and loss of life and destruction of property will have been for nought because Ukraine is going to be a Russian dependency again eventually.

Precisely because Russia is so weak, Europeans won't object when USA decides to ally with Russia in exchange for Russia breaking with China. So in the long run, no one is coming to Ukraine's defense. By long run, I'm talking 5-20 years. Long time span to resolve situation is not good news for Ukraine, because it just means more death and destruction with the same final result. Even if Russia gets pushed all the way back to the 2014 border (no Crimea, no Donbas), Russia can just wait until USA occupied with China and strike again, next time usibg Chinese drone technology, which is getting better very fast.

I don't know what USA strategy is, and probably USA itself doesn't know. As with idiotic USA strategy in Afghanistan, military leaders just say whatever the politicians want to hear so they can get steady promotions, and the politicians follow the herd, which is increasingly scatter-brained, in case you haven't noticed. If USA actually wanted a quick victory in Ukraine, why not send huge numbers of HiMARs artillery and rockets long ago, manned by USA citizen CIA soldiers without uniforms? Fuck the rules of war: you want to win, you break rules. Answer: because USA doesn't really want to win, they just want to bleed Russia for some reason. USA Secretary of Defense actually said just that. Why bleed Russia if Russia so weak they can't possibly threaten Western Europe? It makes no sense. Though maybe explained by my comment that scatter-brained USA electorate is ultimately in charge of USA policy, at least until China moves, at which point steadier hands will seize control of the ship and the scatter-brained herd will be told to take orders instead of giving them.

Finally, remember that Ukraine has no nukes and never will have them, but Russia does have them, which is another reason USA doesn't really want Ukraine to win.[/QUOTE]I can agree with what your writting, could be a potentially endgame, but I not think this is going to happend.

China as I See it is tired of Russia Fucking up everywhere they go, China have major problems themself on the Real Estate market, if that collapse they will have big Internal problems, which cannot be hidden with a War against Taiwan.

I think Russia Will break and have a Leadeship changes before 12 months, A leadership that can be made a peace with, remember Russians leaders don't have a problem throwing the old Leaders under the Bus if needed.

China Until now have not exported much to Russia This Year, yes they are buying energy ressurces but at a very high discount.

Russia is a sinking ship, they just don't admit it yet.

Have you see the new troops they sending, and their loadout.

If this continues Ukrain will be able to defeat them with bow and arrows on the battle field.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2731842]I can agree with what your writting, could be a potentially endgame, but I not think this is going to happend.

China as I See it is tired of Russia Fucking up everywhere they go, China have major problems themself on the Real Estate market, if that collapse they will have big Internal problems, which cannot be hidden with a War against Taiwan.

I think Russia Will break and have a Leadeship changes before 12 months, A leadership that can be made a peace with, remember Russians leaders don't have a problem throwing the old Leaders under the Bus if needed.

China Until now have not exported much to Russia This Year, yes they are buying energy ressurces but at a very high discount.

Russia is a sinking ship, they just don't admit it yet. Have you see the new troops they sending, and their loadout.

If this continues Ukraine will be able to defeat them with bow and arrows on the battle field.[/QUOTE]Few Thoughts:

Ukraine. I agree that the US is not giving Ukraine what it needs to outright 'win,' and this is by design so as not to antagonize Russia (given nukes) and to bleed them dry. What the US, and others to a more limited degree, are doing though is continuing to transition Ukraine to advanced Western weapons and more of them. They started out with 4 HIMARS which royally f-ed up Russia and they're now up to 12 or so plus equivalents from other counties. The USA Has 500+ of those systems, not to mention ones capable of much longer ranges and accuracy. Additionally the US has only been sharing late 90's technology. If they wanted to they could roll out the latest suff.

China. The key here is the US Public's willingness to enter into a war with China. Should we want to we could lay the hammer down. Financially, over 20% of China exports are to the USA Vs 8% the other way. Include Europe / Japan and it'd hit 50% plus.... we could isolate China trade wise. They also hold over $1 T of our debt. From a military standpoint, yes they do have a larger armed forced, but it is nearly all conscripted and non-professional (ie poorly trained). The US has nearly 1 M professional soldiers who are incredibly well trained and the logistics are a well oiled machine. Last of all, you mention a blockade of Taiwan. The US and allies could do the same in the South China Sea for China. China imports 80%+ of their oil (at least until Russia pipeline is expanded). That's a big choke point right there.

Just my armchair quarterback ramblings!

It never ceases to amaze me when people think exports matter. If no buyer, throw it in the ocean. Imports are what matter, exports are what you use to pay for essential imports. China imports oil, food, raw materials, which is precisely why I have that long 5-20 year time frame. Pipelines will be built eventually, and sanctions pretty much guarantee Russia will feed those pipelines. Both China and Russia now see that owning USA debt is a mistake, so they will gradually convert that debt to stockpiles of raw materials so they no longer need to import much. Both China and Russia will build a semiconductor industry so they no longer depend on USA and allies for that. This Ukraine war has revealed weaknesses, and both China and Russia will now try to fix those weaknesses before the move on Taiwan. (Of course, China could be stupid and attack now, just like Russia was stupid to attack too soon.).

If Russia is a sinking ship, that just gives China more leverage to force Russia to sell China what it needs. Too much Russian weakness is not good news for USA. What USA needs is a medium strengtg Russia that fears China more than the USA but is strong enough to break with China and defend Siberia. Ukraine might benefit from extreme Russian weakness, but expecting Russia to fall apart soon is wishful thinking. Plus those nukes will still be there, possibly in the hands of someone much worse than current Russian leadership.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2731890]It never ceases to amaze me when people think exports matter. If no buyer, throw it in the ocean. Imports are what matter, exports are what you use to pay for essential imports. China imports oil, food, raw materials, which is precisely why I have that long 5-20 year time frame. Pipelines will be built eventually, and sanctions pretty much guarantee Russia will feed those pipelines. Both China and Russia now see that owning USA debt is a mistake, so they will gradually convert that debt to stockpiles of raw materials so they no longer need to import much. Both China and Russia will build a semiconductor industry so they no longer depend on USA and allies for that. This Ukraine war has revealed weaknesses, and both China and Russia will now try to fix those weaknesses before the move on Taiwan. (Of course, China could be stupid and attack now, just like Russia was stupid to attack too soon.).

If Russia is a sinking ship, that just gives China more leverage to force Russia to sell China what it needs. Too much Russian weakness is not good news for USA. What USA needs is a medium strengtg Russia that fears China more than the USA but is strong enough to break with China and defend Siberia. Ukraine might benefit from extreme Russian weakness, but expecting Russia to fall apart soon is wishful thinking. Plus those nukes will still be there, possibly in the hands of someone much worse than current Russian leadership.[/QUOTE]China Already have Semiconductor plants, but the issue is that the Patents are hold by western companies.

This is the same issue Russia Have, dosnt matter if they could manage to Build a plant, but it need to have high tech stuff which they not have access to, but the still needed a design for a Semiconductor of high level and not just some old shit from the 80 or 90.

Russia don't have the scientist to developed these things right now.

China is stockpiling Natural gas and Oil.

What will happend when they stop to do this?

The Oil / Gas Market will fall and then russia have a big problem.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2731869]Few Thoughts:

Ukraine. I agree that the US is not giving Ukraine what it needs to outright 'win,' and this is by design so as not to antagonize Russia (given nukes) and to bleed them dry. What the US, and others to a more limited degree, are doing though is continuing to transition Ukraine to advanced Western weapons and more of them. They started out with 4 HIMARS which royally f-ed up Russia and they're now up to 12 or so plus equivalents from other counties. The USA Has 500+ of those systems, not to mention ones capable of much longer ranges and accuracy. Additionally the US has only been sharing late 90's technology. If they wanted to they could roll out the latest suff.

China. The key here is the US Public's willingness to enter into a war with China. Should we want to we could lay the hammer down. Financially, over 20% of China exports are to the USA Vs 8% the other way. Include Europe / Japan and it'd hit 50% plus.... we could isolate China trade wise. They also hold over $1 T of our debt. From a military standpoint, yes they do have a larger armed forced, but it is nearly all conscripted and non-professional (ie poorly trained). The US has nearly 1 M professional soldiers who are incredibly well trained and the logistics are a well oiled machine. Last of all, you mention a blockade of Taiwan. The US and allies could do the same in the South China Sea for China. China imports 80%+ of their oil (at least until Russia pipeline is expanded). That's a big choke point right there.

Just my armchair quarterback ramblings![/QUOTE]Right now Ukrain have 16 Himars as a Minimum.

Then they have the 270 MLRS, 6 as I remember.

I don't think the US have +500 of such Lunchpads but dosnt matter, Ukrain just need little bit more and some longer ranged missiles for it.

Russia is running dry of everything.

Just look Youtubers who still broadcasts and they saying the Malls are half empty compared to normal, the lines of goods much less then normal etc etc.

In a standoff vs. China I don't see China have any chance defeating the combined west, without going full nuclear, and then noone or everyone win (depending on how you see it).

As Russia's forces pound Soledar, more than 2,000 Banderites have been killed, with many more surrendering. The 15th Battalion of 58th AFU Motorized Infantry Brigade has been eliminated. Iranian Shahed 129 drones are seeing action and have already wiped out batteries of M777 Howitzers. The head of the Hitlerite forces is asking Zelensky for permission to withdraw as discipline is further dissipating. What he should be doing is fragging Zelensky and his wife. This is a turkey shoot. Zelensky should be arrested before he flees to one of his overseas mansions.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2731932]As Russia's forces pound Soledar, more than 2,000 Banderites have been killed, with many more surrendering. The 15th Battalion of 58th AFU Motorized Infantry Brigade has been eliminated. Iranian Shahed 129 drones are seeing action and have already wiped out batteries of M777 Howitzers. The head of the Hitlerite forces is asking Zelensky for permission to withdraw as discipline is further dissipating. What he should be doing is fragging Zelensky and his wife. This is a turkey shoot. Zelensky should be arrested before he flees to one of his overseas mansions.[/QUOTE]You are talking Joke.

People are suffering because of Putin, he should be hanged.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2731932]As Russia's forces pound Soledar, more than 2,000 Banderites have been killed, with many more surrendering. The 15th Battalion of 58th AFU Motorized Infantry Brigade has been eliminated. Iranian Shahed 129 drones are seeing action and have already wiped out batteries of M777 Howitzers. The head of the Hitlerite forces is asking Zelensky for permission to withdraw as discipline is further dissipating. What he should be doing is fragging Zelensky and his wife. This is a turkey shoot. Zelensky should be arrested before he flees to one of his overseas mansions.[/QUOTE]I think this is the 3rd time Russia says they eliminated the 15th Battalion.

Where do you get your news from, please show me.

KYIV, UKRAINE — Ukrainian President and American pop culture icon Volodymyr Zelensky made another emotional plea today for additional USA Funding to help his country's war efforts against Russia.

Dressed in a full-length fur coat and a fat gold chain with a diamond-encrusted dollar sign, Zelensky made an impassioned request. "We are in dire need of additional financial resources to help us in our struggle against the evil Russian invaders," Zelensky told the media gathered around him. "It is only through the generosity of the American government that the Ukrainian people will be able to fight back against our oppressors. ".

The Biden Administration was all too happy to comply. "The President has already authorized an additional $800 million in aid for the brave Ukrainian government," said White House spokesperson Liz Megli. "And the American people can have full confidence that this money is going directly into the hands of the Ukrainian military and suffering Ukrainian children and is in no way part of a massive international money laundering scheme. ".

Republican congressional leaders initially questioned the additional funding but quickly changed their minds after the media asked them why they hated Ukrainian children and wanted them to die.

At publishing time, Zelensky was already busy earmarking where the latest wave of USA Funding would go. "It will be used for very good things. Yes, only to aid us in our righteous cause," Zelensky said before ordering the crew of his jet to be sure the bottles of Cristal on board were sufficiently chilled before takeoff for his flight to one of his new mansions in Tel Aviv or Miami. . .

[QUOTE=Travv;2733802]KYIV, UKRAINE Ukrainian President and American pop culture icon Volodymyr Zelensky made another emotional plea today for additional USA Funding to help his country's war efforts against Russia.

Dressed in a full-length fur coat and a fat gold chain with a diamond-encrusted dollar sign, Zelensky made an impassioned request. "We are in dire need of additional financial resources to help us in our struggle against the evil Russian invaders," Zelensky told the media gathered around him. "It is only through the generosity of the American government that the Ukrainian people will be able to fight back against our oppressors. ".

The Biden Administration was all too happy to comply. "The President has already authorized an additional $800 million in aid for the brave Ukrainian government," said White House spokesperson Liz Megli. "And the American people can have full confidence that this money is going directly into the hands of the Ukrainian military and suffering Ukrainian children and is in no way part of a massive international money laundering scheme. ".

Republican congressional leaders initially questioned the additional funding but quickly changed their minds after the media asked them why they hated Ukrainian children and wanted them to die.[/QUOTE]Great report. I could not find that picture, please post a link.

Fake but real? LOL.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2734100]Great report. I could not find that picture, please post a link.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2734100]Great report. I could not find that picture, please post a link.[/QUOTE]Let me help you out then.

[URL]https://babylonbee.com/news/zelensky-gives-impassioned-plea-for-more-us-money-while-wearing-a-fur-coat-and-gold-chain[/URL]

The page above belongs to Babylon Bee, a conservative pseudo-satirical website that desperately tries to emulate success of The Onion.

Travv prefers not to credit his "sources" in a hope that some gullible individuals take them (and his other lies) seriously.

Proxy lying, as I call it.

More serious discussion of corruption in Ukraine:

[URL]https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/18/ukraine-veterans-us-aid-soldiers-war/[/URL]

USA "corruption" is not really corruption, since its perfectly legal business as usual. Defense contractors give $100 million in legal campaign contributions to politicians, politicians vote for $10 billion extra military spending in Ukraine, defense contractors get $1 billion extra profits. (I'm just making numbers up, of course, but you get the point.) Defense contractors and politicians win, USA taxpayers lose, Ukraine gets destroyed. War is a racket. I got my own start in life in the USA defense industry, BTW.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2734946]More serious discussion of corruption in Ukraine:

[URL]https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/18/ukraine-veterans-us-aid-soldiers-war/[/URL]

USA "corruption" is not really corruption, since its perfectly legal business as usual. Defense contractors give $100 million in legal campaign contributions to politicians, politicians vote for $10 billion extra military spending in Ukraine, defense contractors get $1 billion extra profits. (I'm just making numbers up, of course, but you get the point.) Defense contractors and politicians win, USA taxpayers lose, Ukraine gets destroyed. War is a racket. I got my own start in life in the USA defense industry, BTW.[/QUOTE]Everything you must know about Max Blumenthal, the creator of the latest Kozerog's "serious" discussion.

[QUOTE]Max Blumenthal (born December 18, 1977) is an American journalist, author and blogger who is the editor of The Grayzone website, which is known for spreading conspiracy theories, and engaging in denial of atrocities committed by dictatorial regimes. . . [b]He is also a regular contributor to Russian state sponsored Sputnik and RT, and has been accused of spreading Russian propaganda.[/b][/QUOTE][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Blumenthal[/URL]

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2734946]More serious discussion of corruption in Ukraine:

[URL]https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/18/ukraine-veterans-us-aid-soldiers-war/[/URL] [/QUOTE]The attention seeker and kook Max Blumenthal is the editor of the Grayzone and is a long established far left, Chomsky-esque conspiracy theory peddler and pro-Kremlin regular contributor to the Russian state news sources Sputnik and RT. Just Google the guy folks. He falsely claimed that the Mariupol theater attack was committed by the Ukrainian Azov Battalion among other pro-Russian propaganda. Your source is 100% worthless. Yea Russia truly wishes that Ukraine has "lost the war," as do the many 10's of 1000's of Ruskie mothers in mourning back home.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2734946]I got my own start in life in the USA defense industry, BTW.[/QUOTE]I seriously doubt you've ever set foot in the USA, as you keep claiming you are from there trying to buttress some credibility for yourself. Save it.

Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2734956]Everything you must know about Max Blumenthal, the creator of the latest Kozerog's "serious" discussion.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Blumenthal[/URL][/QUOTE]Here's a hilarious tweet from Blumenthal from Feb 26th where he asserted that the Ukrainian "regular military" has been "vanquished. " Say what? Facts of course are optional with this dictator propping opportunist. Some of his antics regarding Syria are also interesting.

[URL]https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1497615455858659341[/URL]

"Zelensky's move is not just a signal of desperation as his military is ground down by Russian forces in the east. It extends the virtual impunity that Ukrainian battalions infested with hardened criminals and neo-Nazis have enjoyed for over eight years as official enforcers of the post-Maidan regime's rule. ".

Not a hint of propaganda there.

"Back in February 2014, when the US-backed Euromaidan coup drove out Ukraine's democratically elected president, the new regime in Kiev faced a crisis. ".

Totally trustable.

From [URL]https://thegrayzone.com/2022/07/30/zelensky-militants-convicted-child-rape-torture-military/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Desin;2734999]"Zelensky's move is not just a signal of desperation as his military is ground down by Russian forces in the east. It extends the virtual impunity that Ukrainian battalions infested with hardened criminals and neo-Nazis have enjoyed for over eight years as official enforcers of the post-Maidan regime's rule. ".

Not a hint of propaganda there.

"Back in February 2014, when the US-backed Euromaidan coup drove out Ukraine's democratically elected president, the new regime in Kiev faced a crisis. ".

Totally trustable.

From [URL]https://thegrayzone.acom/2022/07/30/zelensky-militants-convicted-child-rape-torture-military/[/URL].[/QUOTE]I think both militaries are bogged down now, it will be a battle of attrition. I doubt Ukraine has any reserve units left.

I just wish one side would win or better yet find a compromise. Nobody in America cares anymore. The only people that benefitting from this war are the Arms Dealer's, Politician's and some contractors. Definitely worst case scenario.

[QUOTE=Desin;2734999]"Zelensky's move is not just a signal of desperation as his military is ground down by Russian forces in the east. It extends the virtual impunity that Ukrainian battalions infested with hardened criminals and neo-Nazis have enjoyed for over eight years as official enforcers of the post-Maidan regime's rule. ".

Not a hint of propaganda there.

"Back in February 2014, when the US-backed Euromaidan coup drove out Ukraine's democratically elected president, the new regime in Kiev faced a crisis. ".

Totally trustable.

From [URL]https://thegrayzone.com/2022/07/30/zelensky-militants-convicted-child-rape-torture-military/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Calling it trustworthy doesn't make it trustworthy. Assertions prove nothing, and especially when Russo propagandist, serial liar Max Blumenthal is under consideration. For one thing there hasn't been enough "Neo-Nazis" to win a single seat in the Ukrainian parliament. They are about 2% of the voting population while the country serves under a democratically elected (75% of the vote) Jewish, descendant of Holocaust survivors president. Graystone is a joke, as is Russian propaganda generally, as is the Russian military that already has 40 to 60 K dead in a botched attempt to steal a much smaller country and install a puppet leader. 6 months in and they keep dying in droves while gaining little ground. This while the world sanctions them to death.

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

With the CIA's car bomb murder of Dariya Dugina, their use of chemical weapons and their shelling of the nuclear plant, hopefully now Russia will take the gloves out and there will be a massive ramp up up to and not excluding nuclear first strikes. Wiping London, New York, London and Chicago off the earth would help bring the survivors to the surrender table.

Latest from Pat Buchanan, American political commentator, columnist, politician, assistant and special consultant to USA Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan:

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/08/22/is-autocracy-americas-mortal-enemy/[/URL]

His previous analysis also very accurate. To wit, Ukraine will never get enough US help to "win". Probably Ukrainian higher ups have figured this out and are anticipating an eventual mutiny by the Ukrainian people. So no wonder they steal everything they can while they can and put the loot safely in Swiss banks. (Russian higher ups do the same, of course.).

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/06/02/us-and-ukraine-goals-in-conflict/[/URL]

Is Buchanan also a serial liar?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2735008]I think both militaries are bogged down now, it will be a battle of attrition. I doubt Ukraine has any reserve units left.[/QUOTE]UK just started to train Ukrainian troops. If their compatriots can hold the lines for half a year and then another, maybe they will start to have some possibilities to get offensive. Russia has huge warchest, so unless the sanctions slash deep, it's hard to think why they would give up and admit defeat.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2735018]Calling it trustworthy doesn't make it trustworthy. Assertions prove nothing, and especially when Russo propagandist, serial liar Max Blumenthal is under consideration.[/QUOTE]Yup, I tried to be sarcastic. I did follow the Russian propaganda from Tass for several weeks in the start of the war and noticed the pattern they used. But this article and the tv-show about international aid not reaching it's intented destination indeed plays very well for Russia.

When the first billions were announced, I thought that a lot of people are going to get rich. Of course in EU it's all too common to use the EU funding for all kinds of projects, in the mentality that everything they get from it is a gain for the local city / town / village. But since corruption is in my understanding one of the essential criterias why Ukraine will not be able to join EU, this will of course make it even less propable. Plus the fact that there will be a shitload of guns, economical and mental problems in the country after the war. Imagine walking the K-street thinking that anybody could have a gun and have issues about "rich" foreigners coming to enjoy their young women after they themselves have lost their assets, limbs and / or mental health in the war.

I'll wait until some of you guys scout out the place first and say it's safe, without hostility to foreigners.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2735225]Latest from Pat Buchanan, American political commentator, columnist, politician, assistant and special consultant to USA Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan:

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/08/22/is-autocracy-americas-mortal-enemy/[/URL]

His previous analysis also very accurate. To wit, Ukraine will never get enough US help to "win". Probably Ukrainian higher ups have figured this out and are anticipating an eventual mutiny by the Ukrainian people. So no wonder they steal everything they can while they can and put the loot safely in Swiss banks. (Russian higher ups do the same, of course.).

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/06/02/us-and-ukraine-goals-in-conflict/[/URL]

[b]Is Buchanan also a serial liar?[/b][/QUOTE]No. You, on the other hand. . .

His articles are thoughtful and realistic. Yes, the world is getting tired and somewhat oblivious to Russia's unspeakable vileness and brutality. But in a war with goalposts moving every day, I'm sure Russians will manage to piss the West hard enough to move more. Perhaps in the coming days. Just a few short weeks ago, America told Zelensky not to touch Crimea, and now it's a legit target as far as we're concerned.

Leave it to the Russians to shoot themselves in the foot, the knees, the balls and all their other appendages they can aim at. Soon we'll see Ukrainians getting even more HIMARs and finally ATACMS, bombers and fighter jets. Russia started this war, but it will be ended by it.

This Viktor Yanukovych was his own worst enemy and dug his own grave living in opulent luxury in typical Russo kleptocrat fashion while shirking from an EU trade deal. The vast majority of the country was fed up with him already, but after a truce was broken and in the range of 100 protestors were shot down by government police, all bets were off. So the crook was impeached, then stole 37 billion and ran to Russia where he belongs. It's not complicated and is all rather predictable. A people begin to take an interest in democracy and this draws resistance from autocrats at home and abroad, no "CIA coup" is needed. And that's irrespective of the Noam Chomskys and social media hacks like Max Blumenthal who see the USA hiding under every Bush and as the cause of all the evil on the planet, and this while they prop up murderous dictators like Putin and Assad. It's highly biased, dishonest, self-serving, and pukeworthy among us who love freedom and democracy.

Nonetheless we tolerate it. Blumenthal is still a US citizen as far as I know as that's who we are. We tolerate stupid, false, and unpatriotic publications. Try that in Russia.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2735225]Latest from Pat Buchanan, American political commentator, columnist, politician, assistant and special consultant to USA Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan:

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/08/22/is-autocracy-americas-mortal-enemy/[/URL]

His previous analysis also very accurate. To wit, Ukraine will never get enough US help to "win". Probably Ukrainian higher ups have figured this out and are anticipating an eventual mutiny by the Ukrainian people. So no wonder they steal everything they can while they can and put the loot safely in Swiss banks. (Russian higher ups do the same, of course.).

[URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/06/02/us-and-ukraine-goals-in-conflict/[/URL]

Is Buchanan also a serial liar?[/QUOTE]Though an old right isolationist that is often wrong, Buchanan is way above Blumenthal in the integrity department. Congratulations on the upgrade. It's a source worth reading, and not surprisingly he says nothing about any expected coming "mutiny" in Ukraine while the powers that be currently hoard away funds abroad for an escape. Perhaps you forgot to drop the Blumenthal link for that one (Wink) or it's just another installment of your anti-American, anti-Ukrainian wishful thinking. But I'll second Xpartan's reply to you in that article is three months old and Russia keeps stepping on their dicks and pissing off the West more. And Buchanan conveniently left out the part where Zelensky early on offered to make Ukraine a neutral zone if confirmed by popular vote. But Russia has shown no genuine interest in negotiations though as the pain keeps coming this is liable to change. Ukraine knowing their intentions are willing to fight for their existence as a people. If anything the botched run on Kyiv taught us its that Russia wants it all, the Ukrainian farmlands, industries, and ports. All the other "reasons" given for the invasion were horseshit. But there's apparently a good bit of discord within the Russian armed forces while they're releasing prisoners to fight. CNN got a live interview with this guy at an undisclosed location. Good work!

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/22/europe/pavel-filatyev-ukraine-russia-paratrooper-interview-intl/index.html[/URL]

And the old black and white thinking error keeps popping up here as this one very likely won't wind up all or nothing. The war likely will end at the negotiating table though you get plenty of all or nothing talk from both sides at the moment. Talks of total victory go further to motivate troops than what I just stated. So Ukraine is currently strengthening their position in negotiations while the West sends the message that tyrants don't get to change borders in Europe without severe consequences. Ukraine wants to fight, asked us for weapons and the answer is yes. The USA, NATO, that's who we are and what we do and we've shed plenty of blood for what we stand for. Freedom isn't free.

That said the time has come! I'm heading south to Colombia for my vacation and political discussions are never part of these events, even with other ISG members I meet there on the ground. You all hold down the fort until I return.

P.S. Gas prices are still dropping, at least here in the USA. Isn't that lovely?

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2735225][URL]https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2022/08/22/is-autocracy-americas-mortal-enemy/[/URL][/QUOTE]Forgot to read this one. It's a classic case of Buchanan cherry picking the historical evidence along with fallacious comparisons seen through his isolationist lens. He mocks the French Revolution while ignoring the American and fruitful democracy that followed. He cherry picks quotes from the Founders, but out of context as we then were a new, weak, and vulnerable nation. Preservation was the aim as we weren't a major power. Nonetheless both Washington and Jefferson advocated foreign trade and saw a place for foreign alliances in the matter of war.

[URL]https://www.americanforeignrelations.com/E-N/Isolationism-The-myth-of-the-founders.html[/URL]

Then Pat leaps to WW II complaining about Stalin while Hitler gets a total pass. This isn't surprising given his past associations with Holocaust revisionists while personally advocating some of the same.

[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB940785195432234780[/URL]

But anyway, WW II, should we have just sat that one out Pat? Had he been involved in politics back then that's certainly the side he would have taken. US isolationism is an old scrouge that never learns.

Then he's off to Nicaragua, well yea, there were some alliances with dictators in opposition to worldwide communism. It was the lessor of two evils dilemma and the Monroe Doctrine (1923). Be sure that South Korea is very glad we didn't sit their cause out in the 50's.

But anyone who thinks there's no trouble with worldwide autocracy today wasn't paying attention with Trump's light then violent coup efforts culminating in Jan 6th and the ongoing nonsense that follows it now, both in the US and in Europe, all of course omitted from Pat's analysis. Or even in the microcosm of the same here in a hooker forum where Ukraine's quest for democracy is downplayed along with their significant progress toward reforms since 2014 and the break with Russia. This while the vile behavior and society which is Russia is either embraced or swept under the rug.

Pat can do his cherry picked, agenda driven history lessons but we are going to keep supporting democracy and sending Ukraine the desired weapons. The world is a community and we and our allies have a role to play, both in trade and defense.

Buchanan is what he is, a biased far right ideologue that latches onto what suits his preconceptions and ignores what doesn't. It's the realm where half-truths are linked together to create untruths, using history in a way to further his politics, and in a way that responsible professional historians never do. But he's still a step up from Blumenthal so I stand by my congratulations, though with less enthusiasm after now refreshing my memory. He's been off the radar for a good while.

Monroe Doctrine originated in 1823 not 1923, typo.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2736055]Monroe Doctrine originated in 1823 not 1923, typo.[/QUOTE]I didn't mean to say Russia "will be ended by this war". The Russian Empire will, without a doubt, fail spectacularly, but Russia is here to stay. Hopefully, in a smaller and less homicidal state then the Third Rome.

More American mercenaries have met their Maker in Donbas. [URL]https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/08/28/ukraine-updates-american-killed-battle-donbas/7925220001/[/URL] Shudda stayed in Memphis, Elvis.

Former see / S of the British forces now admits Ukraine is beaten and the glorious Russian Army have won. Suck it up. Or, better still, copy Memphis boy.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2737328]More American mercenaries have met their Maker in Donbas. [URL]https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/08/28/ukraine-updates-american-killed-battle-donbas/7925220001/[/URL] Shudda stayed in Memphis, Elvis.

Former see / S of the British forces now admits Ukraine is beaten and the glorious Russian Army have won. Suck it up. Or, better still, copy Memphis boy.[/QUOTE]PedroMorales is a paid Russian troll.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2735890]But anyway, WW II, should we have just sat that one out Pat?[/QUOTE]Not sat it out entirely, but no reason to favor USSR versus Nazi Germany. We could have negotiated with Hitler and thus pitted a weak Germany versus a weak USSR (possibly with independent Ukraine) and thus prevented USSR dominance after WW2.

As for the blessed jews, just as many people died under Stalin and Mao, there was the Rwanda atrocity which is now mostly forgotten, the mostly forgotten Pol Pot atrocity in Cambodia, the on going Yemen catastrophe, etc, etc. But only the poor Jews seem to matter, and only the Jews get exempt from scrutiny about Nazi like concentration camps in Gaza, and about nuclear and biological weapons proliferation, and anyone who questions why the blessed jews are so special is an anti-Semite.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2735890]But anyone who thinks there's no trouble with worldwide autocracy today ... [/QUOTE]And how does bringing Russia and China together help with this? How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?

USA cannot rule the world alone because modern technology (drone subs, smart torpedoes) undermines ability of USA to project military power. Like ancient Athens, USA can only dominate via alliances, and right now we are alienating our single most important potential ally, which is Russia.

With Russia as USA ally, China is blocked on all sides. With Russia as China's ally, providing the energy and raw materials China would otherwise need to import by sea lanes, China is in a position to drive the USA out of Asia entirely, which will have massive political and economic repercussions. Very very stupid of USA to be bringing about Russia-China alliance.

Buchanan has another essay up today at that site. Similar points as what I am making.

Idiocy #1:

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836]Not sat it out entirely, but no reason to favor USSR versus Nazi Germany. We could have negotiated with Hitler and thus pitted a weak Germany versus a weak USSR (possibly with independent Ukraine) and thus prevented USSR dominance after WW2.[/QUOTE]The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR. Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America. The rest of your "geopolitics" is equally moronic garbage.

Idiocies 2-4:

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836]As for the blessed jews, just as many people died under Stalin and Mao, there was the Rwanda atrocity which is now mostly forgotten, the mostly forgotten Pol Pot atrocity in Cambodia, the on going Yemen catastrophe, etc, etc. But only the poor Jews seem to matter, and only the Jews get exempt from scrutiny about Nazi like concentration camps in Gaza, and about nuclear and biological weapons proliferation, and anyone who questions why the blessed jews are so special is an anti-Semite.[/QUOTE]That's because the glove fits. The problem, though, is not just that you're an anti-Semite (what Kremlin bots aren't) but that you're ignorant. Neither Stalin nor Mao tried to eliminate a whole ethnic group. You're bringing up Rwanda because, like I said, you don't recycle your trash, but it came much later, and yes, we failed to protect them just like we had failed to protect the Jews (CAPITAL FUCKING "J") thanks to fucking isolationists you, Kremlin bots, love so much.

Idiocy 5:

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836]And how does bringing Russia and China together help with this? How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?[/QUOTE]Russia and China are not together and never will be. First, the Chinese historically hate Russians (and vice versa BTW), second, they are way too practical to lose our markets, and third, they're not morons to bet on a obvious loser.

Idiocy 6:

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836]USA cannot rule the world alone because modern technology (drone subs, smart torpedoes) undermines ability of USA to project military power. Like ancient Athens, USA can only dominate via alliances, and right now we are alienating our single most important potential ally, which is Russia.[/QUOTE]Huh? When has Russia been our ally? What in the holy name of fuck are you smoking or licking aside from Vlad's ass?

Idiocy 7:

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836]With Russia as USA ally, China is blocked on all sides. With Russia as China's ally, providing the energy and raw materials China would otherwise need to import by sea lanes, China is in a position to drive the USA out of Asia entirely, which will have massive political and economic repercussions. Very very stupid of USA to be bringing about Russia-China alliance.[/QUOTE]OK, this is simply an Olgino-concocted geopolitical word salad. Screw that.

Slava Ukraine!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2737981]Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR. Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America. The rest of your "geopolitics" is equally moronic garbage.

Idiocies 2-4:

That's because the glove fits. The problem, though, is not just that you're an anti-Semite (what Kremlin bots aren't) but that you're ignorant. Neither Stalin nor Mao tried to eliminate a whole ethnic group. You're bringing up Rwanda because, like I said, you don't recycle your trash, but it came much later, and yes, we failed to protect them just like we had failed to protect the Jews (CAPITAL FUCKING "J") thanks to fucking isolationists you, Kremlin bots, love so much.[/QUOTE]Good answers. For one thing you can't negotiate with committed old school Fascists like Hitler and Mussolini. In their minds the state is pre-eminent and war and conquest are it's highest expression. They are in a constant state of the same as it's so dictated by their ideology. And therein lies the problem with listening to guys like Pat Buchanan, IE. "Hitler didn't want to take over the world! He didn't want to kill all Jews!" But Pat is a journalist, not a historian. History is only used, cherry picked to prop up his political preconceptions. He also obviously never read Mein Kampf.

But yea in these discussions many want to globe trot putting the USA on trial, which of course is a dodge, "appeal to hypocrisy" or the tu-quoque fallacy.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque[/URL]

If we were the worst nation on the earth that doesn't get Russia off the hook in their treatment of Ukraine. But yes we have supported dictators in Latin-America in opposition to worldwide communism, or undemocratic regimes in the Middle East to favor the interests of allies and ours in the matter of energy resources. So what? That's called practicality and diplomacy and still leaves us free to oppose growing Fascist and authoritarian sentiments and actions on our soil and in Europe.

You are also correct in that China is no real ally of Russia. The former will never treat the latter, with their economy about the size of Texas, as an equal. Lip service is all that Russia is getting. Push come to shove China will buddy up to the West as such is in their economic interests.

And Kozerog, we get your anti-Americanism loud and clear, but you are going to be waiting a very long time to see our demise, and doubtfully will even live that long. And certainly aren't going to see it in this Russian invasion of Ukraine debacle / mega-embarrassment. Nonetheless keep waving those pom poms. Lolol.

Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2737981]Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world... Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America. [/QUOTE]Ironic indeed that someone that claims to want to have a "serious discussion" could overlook such details. He lacks the very basics learned in Middle School. Yea right, let's "negotiate" with Germany while they annex France, carpet bomb Britain, and declare war on the US. Too bad Neville Chamberlain never met Kerzog. He'd have had it all ironed out in a hurry. Wink.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2737836] How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?[/QUOTE]The greater Middle East and Eastern Europe are two different worlds. Our primary aims in the former were to combat terrorism, and we hear much less out of Isis and al Qaeda nowadays. What about Poland? Slovakia? The Czech Republic? Latvia? Estonia? To name a few. And Ukraine? That now has a freedom of 61 as opposed to Russia's 19.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

[URL]https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-analogy-definition-and-examples/[/URL]

Yes we support democracy in Europe, and especially our allies. We are also glad to assist Ukraine with intelligence and weapons.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2737981]Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR. [/QUOTE]Just to address one of your unending idiocies: Great Britain was hardly the USA's closest ally in the world. Roosevelt was determined to break the British Empire's economic hegemony. It was a major postwar aim of his policy. And in fact it came to pass as a consequence of the War, where now Britain is the USA's poodle, a satellite that thinks it's a sovereign ally.

Here's the freedom scores of the Central and Eastern Euro countries mentioned, and there are several others:

Poland (81), Czech Republic (91), Slovakia (90), Estonia (94), Latvia (88) & Ukraine (61). And this is in part due to a number of countries including the US that have supported democracy and freedom on the European continent. But don't expect to find any of this information in Pat Buchanan's columns or on Max Blumenthal's pro-Kremlin blogs, as they have agendas. Pitching agendas is never "serious discussion. " Heck Max told us on 2/26 that the Ukrainian army was "vanquished. " Lolol Check my post history for the twitter link.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

Apparently, the USA and UK prevented Russia and Ukraine from a truce. This was no surprise to me at all and expected.

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/western-allies-led-uks-johnson-sabotaged-tentative-ukraine-russia-peace-deal[/URL]

Europe is going to be praying for global warming this winter. Electricity costs have skyrocketed.

[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/how-name-god-shocked-europeans-post-astronomical-energy-bills-terrifying-winter-approaches[/URL]

One such owner is Geraldine Dolan, who owns the Poppyfields cafe in Athlone, Ireland. And was charged nearly 10,000 (US $10,021) for just over two months of energy usage.

My mum owns a small caf in Leicester. Her electricity bill has just jumped from 10 k ($12 k) a year to 55 k ($64 k) a year. She is working out her options but more than likely she will be forced to close.

And just to show you what genius these politicians are, Russia has shut down the natural gas pipeline supplying natural gas to Europe and instead of getting paid for it is choosing to burn it. That is about $10 million worth of gas a day it is pissing away.

[URL]https://mishtalk.com/economics/major-stress-test-in-europe-as-russia-shuts-down-the-natural-gas-pipeline[/URL]

I remember one time in Driver's Education the instructor said after looking at some gruesome accidents, "Does it really matter whose fault it is in the end?

You look at this mess and how fucking stupid it is and the complete fucking waste of money and lives and have to ask, does it really matter whose fault is this? I cannot believe anybody is for something as fucking stupid as this war.

Churchill's fight them on the beaches speech.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2738330]Just to address one of your unending idiocies: Great Britain was hardly the USA's closest ally in the world. Roosevelt was determined to break the British Empire's economic hegemony. It was a major postwar aim of his policy. And in fact it came to pass as a consequence of the War, where now Britain is the USA's poodle, a satellite that thinks it's a sovereign ally.[/QUOTE]Churchill's famous speech ends thus: we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

Churchill had, of course, been paid for his art in the 1930's and was given a dodgy Nobel Lit prize afterwards. But he was prepared to see his "island nation" destroyed so that the New World, as this alcoholic calls it, would prevail. The EU leaders, like Gorbachev selling his pizzas, are doing the same.

The Americans, flotsam of the world that they are, also engineered the collapse of French Indo China and grabbed a ton of Pacific Islands. I really hope Europe collapses this winter so that the Europeans might turn, like rabid dogs, on those American cross breeds who are responsible.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2738330]Just to address one of your unending idiocies: Great Britain was hardly the USA's closest ally in the world. Roosevelt was determined to break the British Empire's economic hegemony. [b]It was a major postwar aim of his policy[/b]. [/QUOTE]Aha. I'm sure it would've been if Roosevelt survived the war. But, hey, don't let little things like a dead president interfere with your mission.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2738330]Just to address one of your unending idiocies: Great Britain was hardly the USA's closest ally in the world. Roosevelt was determined to break the British Empire's economic hegemony. It was a major postwar aim of his policy. And in fact it came to pass as a consequence of the War, where now Britain is the USA's poodle, a satellite that thinks it's a sovereign ally.[/QUOTE]You could also have mentioned the USA's efforts to destroy French Indo China, having first enslaved the peoples of Guam and Saipan, thousands of whom suicided to stop the USMC gang raping them. Americans belong in zoos, somewhere between the crocodile and snake pens.

Article on Gorbachev, including all the things he said that aren't reported in the western press, because they too closely echo Putin's complants:

[URL]https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/09/ignoring-gorbachevs-warnings/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2738243]And Kozerog, we get your anti-Americanism loud and clear, but you are going to be waiting a very long time to see our demise, and doubtfully will even live that long. And certainly aren't going to see it in this Russian invasion of Ukraine debacle / mega-embarrassment. Nonetheless keep waving those pom poms. Lolol.

Slava Ukraini.[/QUOTE]You have bad reading skills (stupid, in other words) if you think I'm anti-American. Most of my wealth is connected with the USA, I'm a USA passport holder, last thing I want is demise of the USA. Though demise is extremely unlikely, because USA is an impregnable fortress. But it could be pushed back into that fortress. That is, pushed out of Asia, thanks to fools like yourself. Regardless of what the Russians and Chinese think of one another, they are moving full speed ahead at strengthening ties. Truly incredible that USA has managed to bring about the one thing (alliance of those nuclear powers, plus all of central Asia, Iran and North Korea) that could actually threaten USA world power. Seizing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Parallels with ancient Athens are clear. Arrogant refusal to acknowledge desire for power by other states (demand for Corinth, etc to be subordinates rather than equal partners), reckless foreign wars (Syracuse expedition), demagogic politicians and their foolish supporters (like Paulie97 and other fools in this forum). Unlike ancient Athens, USA is an impregnable fortress, as already noted, so it can't be conquered. But it can be toppled from its current exalted position, and that's exactly the direction it is heading.

As for Ukraine, the country has been ruined by USA interference.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741496]As for Ukraine, the country has been ruined by USA interference.[/QUOTE]Things are going swimmingly for the USA terror state as Western Europe is imploding, which was the point of the entire exercise. Plus it is now infested with unwanted Ukrainians. There is going to be a very violent reaction. I feel law and order will break down and lots of foreigners will become fair game. Though I am fine, I can see the pressure building and the clashes of objectives over resources, the main one being all the handouts being given to Ukrainian and other parasites, both foreign like them and domestic as well.

Once the EU stops printing money, the game is up. Fasten your seatbelts for a bumpy ride or some such. Let's hope and pray the gloves come off. Nobody wants this but nobody can avoid it.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741496]Truly incredible that USA has managed to bring about the one thing (alliance of those nuclear powers, plus all of central Asia, Iran and North Korea) that could actually threaten USA world power.
As for Ukraine, the country has been ruined by USA interference.[/QUOTE]Not ruined so much as bought and sold. The news has gotten out how Cargill, DuPont, Monsanto and the rest of them have acquired huge holdings of Ukraine's black soil farmland, amongst the world's most fertile, the very land recently having come under Russian control. Ukraine must counterattack to secure the US chemical agro industry's property rights.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741475]Article on Gorbachev, including all the things he said that aren't reported in the western press, because they too closely echo Putin's complants:

[URL]https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/09/ignoring-gorbachevs-warnings/[/URL][/QUOTE]Here is a 2014 interview: BBC HARDtalk. Mikhail Gorbachev. President of the Soviet Union 1990-1991 (10/11/14).

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHL9lNxKQbg[/URL]

Here is what we face: Senator Richard H. Black. The US and NATO don't care how many Ukrainians die -.

Russia Ukraine War: "We don't care! The United States and NATO, we do not care how many Ukrainians die. Not civilians, not women, not children, not soldiers. We do not care. It's become a great football game. You know, we've got our team. They've got their team, rah rah. We want to get the biggest score and run it up. And, you know, we don't care how many how many of our players get crippled on the playing field, as long as we win. ".

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXOWZnRCc20[/URL]

[QUOTE=Questner;2741692]Here is a 2014 interview: BBC HARDtalk. Mikhail Gorbachev. President of the Soviet Union 1990-1991 (10/11/14).

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHL9lNxKQbg[/URL]

Here is what we face: Senator Richard H. Black. The US and NATO don't care how many Ukrainians die -.

Russia Ukraine War: "We don't care! The United States and NATO, we do not care how many Ukrainians die. Not civilians, not women, not children, not soldiers. We do not care. It's become a great football game. You know, we've got our team. They've got their team, rah rah. We want to get the biggest score and run it up. And, you know, we don't care how many how many of our players get crippled on the playing field, as long as we win. ".

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXOWZnRCc20[/URL][/QUOTE]Exactly, either way Ukraine loses. They are being played.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741496]You have bad reading skills (stupid, in other words) if you think I'm anti-American. Most of my wealth is connected with the USA, I'm a USA passport holder, last thing I want is demise of the USA. Though demise is extremely unlikely, because USA is an impregnable fortress. But it could be pushed back into that fortress. That is, pushed out of Asia, thanks to fools like yourself. Regardless of what the Russians and Chinese think of one another, they are moving full speed ahead at strengthening ties. Truly incredible that USA has managed to bring about the one thing (alliance of those nuclear powers, plus all of central Asia, Iran and North Korea) that could actually threaten USA world power. Seizing defeat from the jaws of victory.

Parallels with ancient Athens are clear. Arrogant refusal to acknowledge desire for power by other states (demand for Corinth, etc to be subordinates rather than equal partners), reckless foreign wars (Syracuse expedition), demagogic politicians and their foolish supporters (like Paulie97 and other fools in this forum). Unlike ancient Athens, USA is an impregnable fortress, as already noted, so it can't be conquered. But it can be toppled from its current exalted position, and that's exactly the direction it is heading. [/QUOTE]First of all I couldn't care less about your angry prognostications. Stop reading all the anti-American propaganda you constantly plant your nose in, and viola, anger goes away. If nothing else it will support your cardiac health. You likely agreed with your guy Max Blumenthal when he said on 2/26 that the Ukrainian army was "vanquished. " LOL.

There's an old truism, in that "the strongest points in a debate are not found in the ones that are addressed, but in the ones that are ignored. " You were rebutted repeatedly on many fronts by both myself and Xpartan recently, and it's all been ignored other than to restate your premise regarding China, blame the US for Ukraine, and to once again claim to be an American. I invite the readers to scroll back and view all the rebuttals directed at you that were completely ignored.

As to any wealth, all mongers are "wealthy. " Just ask them. LOL Your typical wealthy person is smart enough to forgo using Max Blumenthal, a regular on Russian state news, as a source to buttress what you want to prove. And wealthy people also aren't looking for bargains on pussy in countries that are down on their luck. You keep trying to impress but are anything but impressive.

As to China, any "alignment" with Russia is show. That's what I meant by "lip service. " China will never in a million years treat Russia, a country with an economy about the size of the state of Texas, as an equal. China is about the money, and push come to shove relations with us will trump any sentiments toward Russia. And once again, nukes are very unlikely to be used as anyone sending them to the West is getting them back in spades. Russia will not use them in Ukraine as that would mean losing the few countries they have left that pay any attention to them. The war likely will end in negotiations once Russia is put in more of a negotiating mood. They have suffered plenty and more is to come. So your analysis is as usual all over the place, while extremely repetitive as you refuse to interact with the points others are making in response.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741496]As for Ukraine, the country has been ruined by USA interference.[/QUOTE]This has been rebutted at least 100 times, by myself and many others. I'm not doing it all over again because you choose to make this false assertion again. Assertions prove nothing, "saying it's so doesn't make it so. ".

[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion[/URL]

The sum of it is that Ukraine like much of Eastern Europe takes an interest in democracy. Russia is trying to rebuild empire. Ukraine doesn't want to be conquered even if you think that's what's best for them, so we are responding to their requests for weapons. You are biased and agenda driven when you make it all about the US. Eastern Europe enjoys democracy and they have agency in these matters. That includes Ukraine and their agency in fighting back against Russia's genocidal, criminal invasion. This ALL of course has already been hammered out and presented in detail, by myself, Xpartan, Jmsuttr, and others. We also, unlike you, have provided a number of legit, well sourced academic articles. Anyone interested can scroll back in the thread and read.

All that said I'm not seeing any new ground covered here so I'm finished going in circles with you, Pedro, Elvis, or any other Russophile spinning a one sided tale here. I'm the only one left to any degree, I think, so you and those like minded as yourself are free to validate one another and talk about how right you are. LOL Cheers.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2741623]Not ruined so much as bought and sold. The news has gotten out how Cargill, DuPont, Monsanto and the rest of them have acquired huge holdings of Ukraine's black soil farmland, amongst the world's most fertile, the very land recently having come under Russian control. Ukraine must counterattack to secure the US chemical agro industry's property rights.[/QUOTE]The news has gotten out to you and to people like you. Most people only care about bread and circuses. NBA, baseball, ice hockey, football etc. Women only care about boob and lip jobs.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2741795]The news has gotten out to you and to people like you. Most people only care about bread and circuses. NBA, baseball, ice hockey, football etc. Women only care about boob and lip jobs.[/QUOTE]As shares in these agro companies are assuredly held by Blackrock et. Al. , most American people (if they have any assets) are invested in 'Ukraine's Victory', whether they realize it or not.

[QUOTE=Kozerog;2741496]You have bad reading skills (stupid, in other words) if you think I'm anti-American. Most of my wealth is connected with the USA, I'm a USA passport holder. . .[/QUOTE]Huh? Being a passport holder would mean you're an American citizen. Why wouldn't you just say that?

Do you hate America so much that you can't even say it aloud: "I'm an American citizen"?

Or are you simply lying again?

[QUOTE=Questner;2741692]Here is a 2014 interview: BBC HARDtalk. Mikhail Gorbachev. President of the Soviet Union 1990-1991 (10/11/14).

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHL9lNxKQbg[/URL]

Here is what we face: Senator Richard H. Black. The US and NATO don't care how many Ukrainians die -.

Russia Ukraine War: "We don't care! The United States and NATO, we do not care how many Ukrainians die. Not civilians, not women, not children, not soldiers. We do not care. It's become a great football game. You know, we've got our team. They've got their team, rah rah. We want to get the biggest score and run it up. And, you know, we don't care how many how many of our players get crippled on the playing field, as long as we win. ".[/QUOTE]Ah, Col. Black again.

First of all, he is (was) a State Senator of Virginia.

Second of all, if you can't find a quote from someone who's not the most infamous apologist of Syrian butcher Bashar Assad and Russian butcher Vladimir Putin -- please go away with your ignorant trolling.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Black_[/URL](politician).

[URL]https://archive.thinkprogress.org/dick-black-assad-the-gop-official-at-the-heart-of-one-of-trumps-favorite-conspiracies-announces-retirement-d3b415ddc642[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2741782]China is about the money, and push come to shove relations with us will trump any sentiments toward Russia.[/QUOTE]Oh yes, 100%! The Chinese are just using Russia like an icebreaker to test the West's resolve. Not even mentioning they have no sentiments toward Russia. They haven't forgotten how in 19th century Count Muravyev annexed 1 million square kilometers of Chinese territory under false pretenses. That dude, by the way is still considered a hero in Russia, and why wouldn't he be?

In just a few days, AFU have de-occupied dozens of settlements and liberated over 1,500 square miles in Kharkov Oblast and Donbass during their incredible counterattack. Two crucial transportation and military hubs Izum and Kupyansk have also fallen to AFU who're now closing in on Lisichansk and Severodonetsk. Some accounts claim AFU have entered the Donetsk Airport that was a scene of bloody battles in 2014.

The glorious Russian armed forces of rapists and marauders are "regrouping" ROFL.

Hey shills, here goes your meal ticket.

What does "Petulant Immorales" have to say now?

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62860774.amp[/URL]

[QUOTE=TheCane;2742027]What does "Petulant Immorales" have to say now?

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62860774.amp[/URL][/QUOTE]Things are more complicated that cornholes of your brancas. We are the same nation in the times of a civil war. We will overcome. As they say often here 'it's not your girl, it's only your turn'. In the same fashion in due time every nation that did harm to us is going to join the list of all others that failed in the past. Somehow you may think that this evil done to us is risk free, and under no circumstances it will come unto you. Well, there just may be no time to ask then 'Why us? Why now? What have we done to deserve it?' Personally I'm worried. I'm not privy to the plans. I misunderstand what is going on. But we've got actually a dove at the helm, and you should really pray hard the hardliners won't take over. Now, it won't cost much to have simple human decency and respect to everyone affected by this disastrous conflict. Don't think our blood is somehow thinner than yours, and our daily bread rationing should be lower than others of the Allies.

[URL]https://www.intermagazin.rs/ruski-analiticar-namamili-smo-ukre-da-izadju-iz-utvrdjenja-da-napadnu-sad-su-nam-na-dlanu-obracun-moze-da-pocne/?fbclid=IwAR2JNP4rV3WmH12iViCdi3LeUbK_GwhAX5azUSdIeCy0BJ272QYXlv3p8YY[/URL]

The above report confirms the Ukrainians are fked. As that they have "recaptured" has no natural line of defence. It is a strange war as US and Russian satellites see all. The American plan is to wear the Russians down by fighting to the last Ukrainian. Let's hope they are successful and Russia can then swat the Baltics.

A favour: As Americans are morons, can you refrain from posting on matters like this where you are totally ignorant? I would ask you to post on which toilet rolls give most value for money in these hard time but I doubt most of you are potty trained or even wash your hands after soiling your panties.

In revenge attacks for American war crimes against Hanoi, Baghdad and Belgrade, the Ukrainian aggressors are being pulverised with X22 missiles fired from Russia long range Tupolev TU-23 M3's. The Ukrainian Nazi vermin and any foreigners with them have no way of avoiding death from above. Time now for Russia to go on the offensive and finish off the filth.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2742201]In revenge attacks for American war crimes against Hanoi, Baghdad and Belgrade, the Ukrainian aggressors are being pulverised with X22 missiles fired from Russia long range Tupolev TU-23 M3's. The Ukrainian Nazi vermin and any foreigners with them have no way of avoiding death from above. Time now for Russia to go on the offensive and finish off the filth.[/QUOTE]I worry about you as a human being, not simply a Russian shill. Pumping out disinformation and Russian propaganda is obviously your "work"; however, it must be really dispiriting. Do you fall asleep easily at night thinking, "Well, I really accomplished something today"? Or do you have to drink yourself into oblivion? Do you ever review your life and your "work"? Personally, I would find it difficult and soul crushing to do what you do. Do you work from a script, or do you receive talking points every day from your bosses? (I suppose there would be a certain amount of creativity if you were completely free to innovate.).

Also, I'm sure it would be of great interest to all of us to know how much you are paid. If you're paid in roubles, how do you effectively convert that to useful currency?

On one hand it is fascinating to read all that crap, on the other I guess you may feel as you describe.

Have you noticed how these guys tend to be South Americans? Probably cheaper.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2742233]I worry about you as a human being, not simply a Russian shill. Pumping out disinformation and Russian propaganda is obviously your "work"; however, it must be really dispiriting. Do you fall asleep easily at night thinking, "Well, I really accomplished something today"? Or do you have to drink yourself into oblivion? Do you ever review your life and your "work"? Personally, I would find it difficult and soul crushing to do what you do. Do you work from a script, or do you receive talking points every day from your bosses? (I suppose there would be a certain amount of creativity if you were completely free to innovate.).

Also, I'm sure it would be of great interest to all of us to know how much you are paid. If you're paid in roubles, how do you effectively convert that to useful currency?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Questner;2742072]Things are more complicated that cornholes of your brancas. We are the same nation in the times of a civil war. We will overcome. As they say often here 'it's not your girl, it's only your turn'. In the same fashion in due time every nation that did harm to us is going to join the list of all others that failed in the past. Somehow you may think that this evil done to us is risk free, and under no circumstances it will come unto you. Well, there just may be no time to ask then 'Why us? Why now? What have we done to deserve it?' Personally I'm worried. I'm not privy to the plans. I misunderstand what is going on. But we've got actually a dove at the helm, and you should really pray hard the hardliners won't take over. Now, it won't cost much to have simple human decency and respect to everyone affected by this disastrous conflict. Don't think our blood is somehow thinner than yours, and our daily bread rationing should be lower than others of the Allies.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians have told you times and again: they're not your brothers. And there is no point of return after you committed every war crime under the sun and after what you did to the Russian cities of Kharkov and Mariupol.

You're not the same nation and never will be.

Snap out of it. Ukraine has already won. All you've achieved is a strong NATO ally on your borders with the most powerful army in Europe who hates your guts.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2742233]I worry about you as a human being, not simply a Russian shill. Pumping out disinformation and Russian propaganda is obviously your "work"; however, it must be really dispiriting. Do you fall asleep easily at night thinking, "Well, I really accomplished something today"? Or do you have to drink yourself into oblivion? Do you ever review your life and your "work"? Personally, I would find it difficult and soul crushing to do what you do. Do you work from a script, or do you receive talking points every day from your bosses? (I suppose there would be a certain amount of creativity if you were completely free to innovate.).

Also, I'm sure it would be of great interest to all of us to know how much you are paid. If you're paid in roubles, how do you effectively convert that to useful currency?[/QUOTE]More blind eyes off the hasbara trolls and their pilpul. You've found something real to worry about! Well done.

A further 10,000 Chechens are on their way to the front. The Russians' Dam Busters squad has shown the Ukrainian Nazis can expect to have American rules visited upon them: water, sewage etc are all now legitimate targets as they were in Iraq and are in Gaza. Given the amount of Americans and British in Zelensky's latest provocation, no Geneva Convention or any other rules now apply to Western assets working for or with the Nazis.

With winter coming in Western Europe, major Russia attacks will break America's satrapies. Onwards to Odessa and Transnistria.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2743637]A further 10,000 Chechens are on their way to the front. The Russians' Dam Busters squad has shown the Ukrainian Nazis can expect to have American rules visited upon them: water, sewage etc are all now legitimate targets as they were in Iraq and are in Gaza. Given the amount of Americans and British in Zelensky's latest provocation, no Geneva Convention or any other rules now apply to Western assets working for or with the Nazis.

With winter coming in Western Europe, major Russia attacks will break America's satrapies. Onwards to Odessa and Transnistria.[/QUOTE]There's been radio silence on this thread from this guy for the last week or so -- I imagine the success of the recent Ukrainian counterattack frustrated even the most dedicated Russian paid propagandists. (However, during his brief hiatus, I saw he did comment on another thread about American strippers being fat and ugly -- for the first time I agreed with him!) I sympathize with him slightly as it must be incredibly difficult mentally to pump out propaganda on a daily basis, even if you are handsomely paid for it. Although it's difficult to feel much empathy for him, imagine the internal stress he must be subject to from having to perform this "work" every day. Probably drinks himself into a stupor every night.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2743637]A further 10,000 Chechens are on their way to the front. .[/QUOTE]Why does your invincibly stronk Russian Army need to hire Chechens to do their fighting?

Not enough machine gunners at the Russian border to keep Orcs from running home to their mommies?

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2743749]There's been radio silence on this thread from this guy for the last week or so -- I imagine the success of the recent Ukrainian counterattack frustrated even the most dedicated Russian paid propagandists . . . Although it's difficult to feel much empathy for him, imagine the internal stress he must be subject to from having to perform this "work" every day. Probably drinks himself into a stupor every night.[/QUOTE]His silence coincided with the silence of Putin's Defense Ministry, which has finally called this monumental defeat a planned "regrouping" LOL. Now that the new instructions have been issued, I'm sure Merdo will look lively again.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2742201]In revenge attacks for American war crimes against Hanoi, Baghdad and Belgrade, the Ukrainian aggressors are being pulverised with X22 missiles fired from Russia long range Tupolev TU-23 M3's. The Ukrainian Nazi vermin and any foreigners with them have no way of avoiding death from above. Time now for Russia to go on the offensive and finish off the filth.[/QUOTE]Yawn. "pulverized". "death from above".

If only you orcs could fight as enthusiastically as you blabber from behind your computer screen.

Or your country could build anything better than the Lada equivalent. FFS, Russia even bases their 2022 models on the 1965 FIAT 124 design they copied from FIAT. FIATS also being well known as unreliable, shitbox cars.

Russia and Russians are the laughing stock of the world now! Thanks for doing your part Komrade!

I'm sure the AFU will give the Glorious Russian Army of rapists and marauders even more opportunities to keep "regrouping" in the near future. In the meantime:

- 8,500 sq. Km and 388 administrative units liberated (including major Russian military hubs of Izum, Vovchansk and Kupiansk).

- thousands of Russian troops KIA or wounded.

- hundreds taken POW (at least).

- 400 pieces of heavy Russian equipment captured (at least) including tanks, APCs, MLRS, artillery vehicles and planes; half of them in good working condition.

All these gains have been achieved in about 10 days in Kharkiv Oblast. There are more gains in the Kherson operation even if they've been more modest.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/counteroffensive-kharkiv-oblast-danilov-names-211200861.html[/URL]

[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-oryx-tanks-planes-military-vehicles-capture-counteroffensive-1743216[/URL]

[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/09/09/the-ukrainian-army-is-surrounding-10000-russian-troops-in-the-east[/URL]

All I can say, I'm loving Russian "regroupings". Keep up the good job!

Slava Ukraine!

Listen racist, the T34 hammered Hitler's super weapons, including the Tiger. Ukraine is a NATO army, run by NATO officers. It will perish, as will all the British and American mercenaries boasting on camera about their puny offensive. You want to be NATO? Fine. Your dams, your water works, your sewage are all now legitimate targets, as will be your political front men.

Now you go back to rubbing yourself, doggie.

The only good American.

[QUOTE=RubMeister100;2743765]Yawn. "pulverized". "death from above".

If only you orcs could fight as enthusiastically as you blabber from behind your computer screen.

Or your country could build anything better than the Lada equivalent. FFS, Russia even bases their 2022 models on the 1965 FIAT 124 design they copied from FIAT. FIATS also being well known as unreliable, shitbox cars.

Russia and Russians are the laughing stock of the world now! Thanks for doing your part Komrade![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2743792]Listen racist, the T34 hammered Hitler's super weapons, including the Tiger. [/QUOTE]Yes, when ten T34 were approaching one Tiger.

Look at the first rockets in USA and UDSSR. Copycats of the V2, German design, from German engineers. Who also built the turboprops for the TU-95.

The problem of / in Russian engineering is, Russians are top in theoretical disciplines, even better than USA. But lack of practical implementation.

Wernher von Braun originally coopt with a few Russians. But then W. V. be. Built the V2.

Having lived and worked for many years both in RF and in UA, I learned, that furtunately the common people there are different from Putler.

Obviously, you are an exception.

Slava Ukraine.

These gains and the progressions of the Ukrainians is a pleasure to watch. I enjoy cheering on each and every small victory, including marveling at the overview when we look at the new status maps and all the equipment / ammo they captured.

Slava Ukraini!

[QUOTE=VinDici;2744031]These gains and the progressions of the Ukrainians is a pleasure to watch. I enjoy cheering on each and every small victory, including marveling at the overview when we look at the new status maps and all the equipment / ammo they captured.

Slava Ukraini![/QUOTE]Yes, Ukraine Military is doing an amazing job, with a lot of help, probably way more then we will ever know. We will see what happens, but there is a good chance Ukraine wins the war, but still looses. Hopefully Putin does not Nuke them, if he gets desperate he is capable of anything.

Theses are just a few major issues they will have to figure out: The country infrastructure will be destroyed. They will still have to deal with Russia for energy. Countless deaths, of young males. Many injured, not mention PTSD. The ramifications of the best and brightest fleeing Ukraine for a better life, and this will only be exasperated by the war. The countless number of people that lost everything as a result of the war and have left to Europe. Ukraine has one of the lowest Birthrates in the world. We will see what happens.

The Nazis in Bahmut have no hope, bar suicide. Nazi offensives have stalled. Back to terrorism and social media. Hope vou apologists have stocked up on your baby oil and tissues. I reckon 100,000 more dead Ukrainian soldiers by the end of the year. Well done Hunter Biden. A true American.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2744175]The Nazis in Bahmut have no hope, bar suicide. Nazi offensives have stalled. Back to terrorism and social media. Hope vou apologists have stocked up on your baby oil and tissues. I reckon 100,000 more dead Ukrainian soldiers by the end of the year.[/QUOTE]What a clown.

[URL]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-september-16[/URL]

The Bakhmut assault has been repelled.

The terrorism comes from Russia with their attacks on civilians, torture and mass graves in the wake of their retreats.

Will you place money on that between today and 31st December 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers will die? I'll take that bet.

Keep your Hitlerite propaganda to yourself. The mass execution hoax has already been disproved by those paying attention, which excludes Americans, Darwin's missing link. You serve no purpose in giving American links as Americans are murderers, thieves, torturers and liars. The Ingulets River is flooded, so more Ukrainians rat trapped and on their way to the great Reich in the Sky. Some photos of more dead American "volunteers" doing the social media rounds. 500 Ukrainians fried crispy in Seversk.

Our prayers are with Ukraine, facing extermination again because of American treachery. We know what you vermin are doing from the Baltic micro states all the way to Syria and Africa. The only good American.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2744436]What a clown.

[URL]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-september-16[/URL]

The Bakhmut assault has been repelled.

The terrorism comes from Russia with their attacks on civilians, torture and mass graves in the wake of their retreats.

Will you place money on that between today and 31st December 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers will die? I'll take that bet.[/QUOTE]

Chechen fighters are a well-known and feared brand in Russia. They defeated the Russian Army in the First Chechen War and (a funny story, actually) still managed to impose their will on Kremlin even after "losing" the Second War. No other Federal District in Russia has the budget and privileges Chechnya does. Their operatives can freely roam across Russia and kidnap or kill whoever they want. They recently kidnapped a wife of a federal judge, having forced her family to flee Russia.

[URL]https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-chechnya-judge-flees-wife-abducted/31668999.html[/URL]

But Ukrainians, unlike Russians, don't give two fucks about feared Chechen fighters. Back in February, the AFU exterminated over 200 elite Chechen special forces sent by Kadyrov to assassinate Zelensky in Kyev. Since then Kadyrov doesn't let Russian generals use his boys for actual fighting. They display their skills on TickTock by fighting trees, traffic lights and empty buildings.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAjobwvchRg[/URL]

That doesn't mean that Chechens don't kill. They do -- mostly Ukrainian civilians and Russian soldiers who're either trying to flee the combat, or seriously wounded and need consistent care. Killing Russians is a favorite Chechens' pastime. Fighting AFU -- not so much.

[URL]https://www.thedailybeast.com/chechen-fighters-executed-3-russian-troops-who-rebelled-against-ukraine-war-official-says[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi_SQGqnanM[/URL]

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10772043/Brutal-sect-Chechens-executed-Russian-troops-Ukraine-claim-witnesses.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2744460]Keep your Hitlerite propaganda to yourself. The mass execution hoax has already been disproved by those paying attention, which excludes Americans, Darwin's missing link. You serve no purpose in giving American links as Americans are murderers, thieves, torturers and liars. The Ingulets River is flooded, so more Ukrainians rat trapped and on their way to the great Reich in the Sky. Some photos of more dead American "volunteers" doing the social media rounds. 500 Ukrainians fried crispy in Seversk.

Our prayers are with Ukraine, facing extermination again because of American treachery. We know what you vermin are doing from the Baltic micro states all the way to Syria and Africa. The only good American.[/QUOTE]Check out the image for helpful recommendation.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2744460]Keep your Hitlerite propaganda to yourself. The mass execution hoax has already been disproved by those paying attention, which excludes Americans, Darwin's missing link. You serve no purpose in giving American links as Americans are murderers, thieves, torturers and liars. The Ingulets River is flooded, so more Ukrainians rat trapped and on their way to the great Reich in the Sky. Some photos of more dead American "volunteers" doing the social media rounds. 500 Ukrainians fried crispy in Seversk.

Our prayers are with Ukraine, facing extermination again because of American treachery. We know what you vermin are doing from the Baltic micro states all the way to Syria and Africa. The only good American.[/QUOTE]Godwins law again.

Mass execution isn't a hoax, there are actual people who are dead.

I notice you didn't take me up on the bet, perhaps your Kremlin wages aren't enough to cover for your mouth?

Reality a little hard for you at the moment?

Kiev's Hitlerites bombed Olenivka POW camp again, murdering scores of their own POWs, who were being held as POWs by Russia and her gallant allies.

Your mass execution has already been disproved. Over 10,000 Ukrainians dead because of their stupid, failed offensive.

As regards Godwin's law, you haver probably missed the Nazi insignia the Kiev Hitlerites are now openly displayiing. Yo have obviously missed all the banning of Russian language, strapping kids to lampposts, marches honouring Nazi Bandera etc.

You are American, ie you are a moron and a troll.

The only dealings I would want with you is bringing kids to look at you as a zoo exhibit.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2744808]Godwins law again.

Mass execution isn't a hoax, there are actual people who are dead.

I notice you didn't take me up on the bet, perhaps your Kremlin wages aren't enough to cover for your mouth?

Reality a little hard for you at the moment?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2744851]Your mass execution has already been disproved.

The only dealings I would want with you is bringing kids to look at you as a zoo exhibit.[/QUOTE]They have not, and more and more evidence is being presented each day. It's not MY mass execution, it's a war crime committed by the Russian Army.

Dealings? I see you're all mouth and no trousers.

Looks like the "De-Nazification" includes destroying monuments from the 9th Century.

How can 150 million Russians be allowed to continue to control all those natural resources they're sitting on? It just isn't fair to American financiers, err to the rest of the worlds' peoples. Since those greedy Russians refuse to come to their senses and give, err share the wealth, then by any means necessary to liberate and bring freedom and democracy to those oil, natural gas, and rare earth minerals is simple justice. The original nazis have shown the way; the USA has only to pick up their torch and finish the job.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2745523]How can 150 million Russians be allowed to continue to control all those natural resources they're sitting on? It just isn't fair to American financiers, err to the rest of the worlds' peoples. Since those greedy Russians refuse to come to their senses and give, err share the wealth, then by any means necessary to liberate and bring freedom and democracy to those oil, natural gas, and rare earth minerals is simple justice. The original nazis have shown the way; the USA has only to pick up their torch and finish the job.[/QUOTE]America has lots of Oil, but the Democratic's do not want to drill. They are also putting crazy restrictions and regulating the hell on oil companies. Crazy we are at war with Russia and not producing oil to are full capacity, not even close. It makes no sense, as usual we are fighting a war half ass.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2745523]How can 150 million Russians be allowed to continue to control all those natural resources they're sitting on? It just isn't fair to American financiers, err to the rest of the worlds' peoples. Since those greedy Russians refuse to come to their senses and give, err share the wealth, then by any means necessary to liberate and bring freedom and democracy to those oil, natural gas, and rare earth minerals is simple justice. The original nazis have shown the way; the USA has only to pick up their torch and finish the job.[/QUOTE]What does that have to do with Russians invading Ukraine and killing the Ukrainian people?

Post that rant in an American forum.

Whatever Putin is saying, he cannot hide Russian is losing in Ukraine, at least for now.

I wonder how many children of Putin & his elite politicians are fighting against Ukrainians at the front line.

At the end of the day, only the ordinary Russians are going to die and their family will suffer.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2745744]What does that have to do with Russians invading Ukraine and killing the Ukrainian people?
Post that rant in an American forum.[/QUOTE]Try again. Maybe you'll get it.

Nuclear war, what countries should be wiped off the face of the maps first? I vote England, the City of London and the other financial nerve centres. The main targets are the nuclear silos in various US flyover states and their European equivalents but I feel a strong calling card, a knock knock whos's there multiple tap, best fits the bill.

Israel would be another welcome target but that ain't going to happen. God knows why Russia released those English mercenaries on the Saudis' advice. No doubt odd games going on but let's just hope Russia is on a roll and King Charles' reign is shortened by knock knock nukes.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2745961]Nuclear war, what countries should be wiped off the face of the maps first? I vote England, the City of London and the other financial nerve centres. The main targets are the nuclear silos in various US flyover states and their European equivalents but I feel a strong calling card, a knock knock whos's there multiple tap, best fits the bill.

Israel would be another welcome target but that ain't going to happen. God knows why Russia released those English mercenaries on the Saudis' advice. No doubt odd games going on but let's just hope Russia is on a roll and King Charles' reign is shortened by knock knock nukes.[/QUOTE]Why would you vote for anyone to be wiped out by nuclear weapons?

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2745961]Nuclear war, what countries should be wiped off the face of the maps first? I vote England, the City of London and the other financial nerve centres. The main targets are the nuclear silos in various US flyover states and their European equivalents but I feel a strong calling card, a knock knock who's there multiple tap, best fits the bill.
....[/QUOTE]Last time talking big only on online, but Russian soldiers are running away on ground.

Now you admit Putin is losing. Not many option left in Putin's hand except talking about nuclear.

[QUOTE=MgLuulay;2745745]
I wonder how many children of Putin & his elite politicians are fighting against Ukrainians at the front line.
[/QUOTE]As soon as an increasing number of children of inhabitants of Moscow and St. Petersburg will be "Missing in Action", "Putlers Reich" is coming to an end.

[QUOTE=MgLuulay;2746305]Last time talking big only on online, but Russian soldiers are running away on ground.

Now you admit Putin is losing. Not many option left in Putin's hand except talking about nuclear.[/QUOTE]This is about destroying NATO, Hunter Biden's bio labs. Even before day 1, nukes were on the table. The American criminal regime is the only country ever to use nukes, on Japan, when Japan was already beaten. If you are American, you and your fat ass are excess to requirements.

Maybe get your news from somewhere else besides the CIA. Asa regards the other troll talking about Russians dying, this is not their first rodeo. They are not Americans, who just slaughter Arabs, Asians and Latinos.

[QUOTE=MgLuulay;2746305]Last time talking big only on online, but Russian soldiers are running away on ground.

Now you admit Putin is losing. Not many option left in Putin's hand except talking about nuclear.[/QUOTE]This is about destroying NATO, Hunter Biden's bio labs. Even before day 1, nukes were on the table. The American criminal regime is the only country ever to use nukes, on Japan, when Japan was already beaten. If you are American, you and your fat ass are excess to requirements.

Maybe get your news from somewhere else besides the CIA. Asa regards the other troll talking about Russians dying, this is not their first rodeo. They are not Americans, who just slaughter Arabs, Asians and Latinos.

[QUOTE=MgLuulay;2745745]Whatever Putin is saying, he cannot hide Russian is losing in Ukraine, at least for now.

I wonder how many children of Putin & his elite politicians are fighting against Ukrainians at the front line.

At the end of the day, only the ordinary Russians are going to die and their family will suffer.[/QUOTE]The last two days Russia has detained thousands of Russians, protesting the war, and over 51 percent are women. The Russian dictator needs to stick a uniform on his daughters and send them both, straight to the front.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2745961]Nuclear war, what countries should be wiped off the face of the maps first? I vote England, the City of London and the other financial nerve centres. The main targets are the nuclear silos in various US flyover states and their European equivalents but I feel a strong calling card, a knock knock who's there multiple tap, best fits the bill.

Israel would be another welcome target but that ain't going to happen. God knows why Russia released those English mercenaries on the Saudis' advice. No doubt odd games going on but let's just hope Russia is on a roll and King Charles' reign is shortened by knock knock nukes.[/QUOTE]You my friend are a total idiot.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2746407]..garbled lunacy...[/QUOTE]It's hard to understand clown speak, we only understand rational English.

Are an idiot. Russia has 25 million reserves. 25 million, get the number. 300,000 are being called up. Ukraine's capability is gone. Their reserves are gone.

You are afraid of nuclear weapons. Your problem, not mine. If it takes nuclear war to stop the USA, that is fine with me. As long as a lot of Americans also perish.

The Russian Army is now committed and will prevail.

Watch also Sunday's election in Italy.

[QUOTE=How14;2746439]You my friend are a total idiot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2746576]Are an idiot. Russia has 25 million reserves. 25 million, get the number. 300,000 are being called up. Ukraine's capability is gone. Their reserves are gone.

You are afraid of nuclear weapons. Your problem, not mine. If it takes nuclear war to stop the USA, that is fine with me. As long as a lot of Americans also perish.

The Russian Army is now committed and will prevail.

Watch also Sunday's election in Italy.[/QUOTE]I haven't followed this thread much, but, jeez, why do you hate America so much?

What have they done to you or to Latin America?

If you explain, we would sympathize with you.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2746576]Are an idiot. Russia has 25 million reserves. 25 million, get the number. 300,000 are being called up. Ukraine's capability is gone. Their reserves are gone.

You are afraid of nuclear weapons. Your problem, not mine. If it takes nuclear war to stop the USA, that is fine with me. As long as a lot of Americans also perish.

The Russian Army is now committed and will prevail.

Watch also Sunday's election in Italy.[/QUOTE]I haven't followed this thread much, but, jeez, why do you hate America so much?

What have they done to you or to Latin America in your opinion?

If you explain, we would sympathize with you.

If no America, you wouldn't have named yourself PedroMorales.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2746576]Are an idiot. [b]Russia has 25 million reserves[/b]. 25 million, get the number. 300,000 are being called up. Ukraine's capability is gone. Their reserves are gone.

You are afraid of nuclear weapons. Your problem, not mine. If it takes nuclear war to stop the USA, that is fine with me. As long as a lot of Americans also perish.

The Russian Army is now committed and will prevail.

Watch also Sunday's election in Italy.[/QUOTE]Even Russia claims 2 million reservists. And whatever they claim must be divided by 10 at least.

The endless lines of vehicles on the borders of Georgia and Armenia, as well as 10-fold price hikes on any flights out of Russia (mostly sold out even at those prices) can tell everyone who's not a moron how many Russians are actually willing to die for the bunker rat.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2746952]Even Russia claims 2 million reservists. And whatever they claim must be divided by 10 at least.

The endless lines of vehicles on the borders of Georgia and Armenia, as well as 10-fold price hikes on any flights out of Russia (mostly sold out even at those prices) can tell everyone who's not a moron how many Russians are actually willing to die for the bunker rat.[/QUOTE]It's quite the "mobilization. " Wink.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-P44xUPvRg[/URL]

[QUOTE=Timmy21;2746410] The Russian dictator needs to stick a uniform on his daughters and send them both, straight to the front.[/QUOTE]Right. Just like the Big Guy stuck a uniform on Hunter.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2747204]Right. Just like the Big Guy stuck a uniform on Hunter.[/QUOTE]He hasn't done a mobilisation. (facepalm).

[QUOTE=Shevchenko;2746826]I haven't followed this thread much, but, jeez, why do you hate America so much? What have they done to you or to Latin America in your opinion? If you explain, we would sympathize with you. [/QUOTE]Your "sympathy" is not required. Save it for some stray dog in one of your drug addled cities. The fact you have no idea what the USA has done to just about everyone tells it own story. The USA is to today what Nazi Germany was to an earlier era but even worse than that. Nazi Germany was defeated by the 35 million soldiers of the Red Army and the reservists who stood behind them. That America zoo exhibits here think the Russian Army would be limited to 2 million shows what shallow minds Americans have.

Here is how things will play out. The new Novorossiya is forming. When the referendums are finished, any attack on it = nuclear war, which makes the actual size of Russia's reserves moot. As long as England and America are in the nuclear cross hairs, all is good.

At the other level, Italy is currently telling the EU to fukck off. The EU has threatened retaliation. , a game we can all play.

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere.

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;.

And not before time. We are seeing this happening in England and Sweden at the moment. Whatever power the Democrats have over the UK and Europe is making their currencies and economies implode and boosting the dollar to help in the mid terms. But that won't stop the gates of hell opening. Already Germany's main producer of toilet paper has folded. Can you imagine, Germans being like Joe Biden with streak marks on their underwear because they obeyed the CIA.

The Yanks, like the miserable sons of bitches they are, think they will escape this one unscathed. And yes, the Greta Tunbergs and EU MPs will have to be dragged out first to meet their Makers. And then the harlots of the media. You want a colour revolution? You are going to get one, in deepest oceans of red blood. I neither welcome nor fear it. I am resigned to it and happy to play my bit part. Beats watching American movies or leering about American elephant women.

On that last point, the Australians (better lap dogs than sheep dogs) are getting heavy into eating crickets, getting kids (joeys) to munch on them. Are they as fattening as the corn oiled crap Americans much on? Crickets ffs.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2747291]Here is how things will play out. The new Novorossiya is forming. When the referendums are finished, any attack on it = nuclear war, which makes the actual size of Russia's reserves moot. As long as England and America are in the nuclear cross hairs, all is good.[/QUOTE]There will be no nuclear war. Should Russia deploy tactical nukes, it will be the end for them, and they know it.

If NATO decided to make a coordinated attack against Russia, the Russians would be wiped out very quickly. Unlike the Russian army, NATO actually has decent tactics and logistics to back up their mouths.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2747460]There will be no nuclear war. Should Russia deploy tactical nukes, it will be the end for them, and they know it.[/QUOTE]Have you ever seen the map? Try paying attention to the size of Europe relative to the Russian landmass. This should give you some clues as to what gets wiped out or not.

Just the same, there's not going to be a nuclear Armagedeon. It's not like the insane fundamentalist zionists are anywhere near the red buttons.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2747472]...Just the same, there's not going to be a nuclear Armagedeon..[/QUOTE]You can just write "I agree" next time. No need to be a dick about it.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2747291]Your "sympathy" is not required. Save it for some stray dog in one of your drug addled cities. The fact you have no idea what the USA has done to just about everyone tells it own story. The USA is to today what Nazi Germany was to an earlier era but even worse than that. Nazi Germany was defeated by the 35 million soldiers of the Red Army and the reservists who stood behind them.
.[/QUOTE]Anyway Putin is losing the war as of today.

If you insist, Go and fight Ukrians at the front line.

Don't just be a "keyboard warrior" LOL.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2747472]Have you ever seen the map? Try paying attention to the size of Europe relative to the Russian landmass. This should give you some clues as to what gets wiped out or not.[/QUOTE]I saw that map way before 1992. It was much, much bigger.

The Russian landmass you're in awe of is mostly depopulated areas.

The REAL size of Europe is 600 million people.

Russia - 144 million, and the number keeps shrinking.

Empires that don't go with the times die, usually with a great deal of violence.

One day, Russia will be a decent country, but it won't be an empire and it will fit into a much smaller map.

[URL]https://zeihan.com/russia-calls-up-more-troops/[/URL]

"It is still the Russians war to lose. But they are following the playbook."

I have been listening to Peter Zhein's speeches and I cannot see how anyone can be pro-war. There is no winning this war. It is how much we all lose and it is not just Ukraine or Russia but all of mankind. If the world does not have access to the potash and fertilizer of Russia and Belarus, the resulting famine is going to make these war deaths look like a blip. This war really, really, really needs to end.

The American bombing of Nordstream 2 off the Danish coast shows that Americans, all Americans, should be barred from Europe. It is quite amazing that Europe has a bunch of leaders happy to see the pariah state of the USA wreck Europe and the world.

Soon I will be saying goodbye as I will be heaven bound with the Rapture, heaven bound where there are hopefully no Americans.

Just like Russia which the Biden mob have ordered all Americans to leave. The governments of Poland, Romania and the Baltic states have also demanded their citizens leave Russia. I reckon the American terrorists will next attack the Crimean bridge. The Rapture will soon come when the nuclear weapons start flying, which they must very soon. We can only hope and pray China, Pakistan, North Korea and India join in. Either way, bend over and kiss your fat asses goodbye. What did the world ever do to have Americans in our midst? Oh well, that is all moot now.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2748108]The American bombing of Nordstream 2 ....[/QUOTE]The Americans did not bomb Nordstream 2, it was the Russians. Evidence will be found soon enough, I'm so confident I will happily place a wager on this, do you want to take me up on this? I will bet that it was not the Americans, will you take the bet?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2747987] This war really, really, really needs to end.[/QUOTE]It does. And it will. Not by useful idiots chanting their hollow mantras, but by AFU kicking Putin's ass.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2748306]The Americans did not bomb Nordstream 2, it was the Russians. Evidence will be found soon enough, I'm so confident I will happily place a wager on this, do you want to take me up on this? I will bet that it was not the Americans, will you take the bet?[/QUOTE]Of course, the Russians did it. Why wouldn't they bomb their own pipeline? What better way to throw away all their leverage over the Western Europeans?

120,000 Belarussian peace keepers are mobilising at the Ukrainian border. Some 30,000 more Russians have moved up to the front. Russian peace maker Putin has declared Luhansk, Donbas etc are Russian. Let's all pray he drops the big one again and again and rids the world of London and the USA.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2748772]Of course, the Russians did it. Why wouldn't they bomb their own pipeline? What better way to throw away all their leverage over the Western Europeans?[/QUOTE]This is the reason why Russia destroyed the pipeline. Gazprom is in breach of their contracts for shutting down gas supply and can be sued because of it. The destroyed pipelines are supposed to be "force majeure" which would give them en excuse not to deliver.

They already played their leverage card by stopping the deliveries.

Try and live in reality, and not in clown world for a change.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2748822]120,000 Belarussian peace keepers are mobilising at the Ukrainian border. Some 30,000 more Russians have moved up to the front. Russian peace maker Putin has declared Luhansk, Donbas etc are Russian. Let's all pray he drops the big one again and again and rids the world of London and the USA.[/QUOTE]Peace maker. Please explain?

Also given that Belarus struggled to supply 5000 troops at the start of the war, how will they supply 120,000 now that they can clearly see that RuZZia is losing? Please explain?

Why are you praying for nuclear escalation?

You don't want to take any of my wagers. What a cowardly person you are.

Is an Australian expression, referring to the sheep shit that gets stuck in the arses of sheep well as to turds like you.

1. Belarus.

[URL]https://odessa-journal.com/defence-intelligence-belarus-is-preparing-to-receive-20000-people-mobilized-from-the-russian-federation/[/URL] + Russia was economical with the truth when it sent its peace keepers in.

2. You know Russian blew the pipelines in one of NATO's most heavily guarded waters. Between us, we know everything. You know everything except you are a cross dressing bisexual moron and I know that already.

3. You want a bet but I don't want to know shoe shit like you. I don't bet, not financially at least. I was going to travel tomorrow to take care of business like you but it can wait.

4. Nuclear war: The world without the USA would be a better place. Nuke it.

4. Go back to pulling your cock and sucking the cocks of others. You know no better.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2749182]Peace maker. Please explain?

Also given that Belarus struggled to supply 5000 troops at the start of the war, how will they supply 120,000 now that they can clearly see that RuZZia is losing? Please explain?

Why are you praying for nuclear escalation?

You don't want to take any of my wagers. What a cowardly person you are.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VinDici;2749178]This is the reason why Russia destroyed the pipeline. Gazprom is in breach of their contracts for shutting down gas supply and can be sued because of it. The destroyed pipelines are supposed to be "force majeure" which would give them en excuse not to deliver.
.[/QUOTE]Simpleton. The Germans signed a contract to buy Russian gas. Uncle Shmuel made a sanction and told the Germans they couldn't buy anymore Gazprom. The German leadership followed orders, breaching their contract and can be sued because of it. Then the German people went to streets to protest this idiotic decision. Afraid the puppet politicians would respect the people they obstensibly represent, Uncle Shmuel blows up the pipeline.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2749209]
1. Belarus.

[URL]https://odessa-journal.com/defence-intelligence-belarus-is-preparing-to-receive-20000-people-mobilized-from-the-russian-federation/[/URL] + Russia was economical with the truth when it sent its peace keepers in.

2. You know Russian blew the pipelines in one of NATO's most heavily guarded waters. Between us, we know everything. You know everything except you are a cross dressing bisexual moron and I know that already.

3. You want a bet but I don't want to know shoe shit like you. I don't bet, not financially at least. I was going to travel tomorrow to take care of business like you but it can wait.

4. Nuclear war: The world without the USA would be a better place. Nuke it.

4. Go back to pulling your cock and sucking the cocks of others. You know no better.[/QUOTE]There are no peace keepers from Russia, there are only invaders it's not the same.

You're not only a liar you're a coward plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2749363]Simpleton. The Germans signed a contract to buy Russian gas. Uncle Shmuel made a sanction and told the Germans they couldn't buy anymore Gazprom. The German leadership followed orders, breaching their contract and can be sued because of it. Then the German people went to streets to protest this idiotic decision. Afraid the puppet politicians would respect the people they obstensibly represent, Uncle Shmuel blows up the pipeline.[/QUOTE]Where is this fantasy from?

Germans would and are allowed to buy gas from Russia. The contract is to be paid in USD. When Russian tried to change the terms and it was rejected, DE had to pivot. In order to stop DE filling it's reserves before winter, Russia turned off the gas. No intervention from the US required or needed.

Who are these protesters in Germany other than Russians with permits to live there, latest support for Ukraine was higher than 70% in Germany and the number has increased with each month.

Pro-Kremlin neo-Nazi militia inciting the torture and murder of Ukrainian prisoners.

[QUOTE]A neo-Nazi pro-Kremlin group active in Ukraine is inciting atrocities against prisoners of war and explicitly advocates the torture of captives including removing body parts. The self-styled Task Force Rusich is fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the Kremlin and is linked to the notorious Wagner Group mercenaries.

A message on Rusichs Telegram channel sent on 22 September advocates the destruction of prisoners on the spot.

The Rusich Telegram post contains specific and detailed instructions for the channels followers on the disposal of prisoners of war from the armed forces of Ukraine.

Its key points also include explicit instructions to murder captives after interrogation and encourages forcing the families of murdered captives to pay Rusich for the coordinates of their loved ones bodies.

It says the capture of Ukrainians should not be reported to the pro-Kremlin command, and if a report has to be made, it should say that the captive is already injured or dying.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/02/pro-kremlin-neo-nazi-militia-inciting-torture-murder-ukrainian-prisoners[/URL]

[QUOTE=VinDici;2749440]Germans would and are allowed to buy gas from Russia. The contract is to be paid in USD. When Russian tried to change the terms and it was rejected, DE had to pivot. In order to stop DE filling it's reserves before winter, Russia turned off the gas. No intervention from the US required or needed.

Who are these protesters in Germany other than Russians with permits to live there, latest support for Ukraine was higher than 70% in Germany and the number has increased with each month.[/QUOTE]So you absorb your information exclusively from mainstream Anglo-American zio news sources. You're excused.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2749576]So you absorb your information exclusively from mainstream Anglo-American zio news sources. You're excused.[/QUOTE]I prefer that to pulling it out from my arse.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2747987][URL]https://zeihan.com/russia-calls-up-more-troops/[/URL]

"It is still the Russians war to lose. But they are following the playbook."

I have been listening to Peter Zhein's speeches and I cannot see how anyone can be pro-war. There is no winning this war. It is how much we all lose and it is not just Ukraine or Russia but all of mankind. If the world does not have access to the potash and fertilizer of Russia and Belarus, the resulting famine is going to make these war deaths look like a blip. This war really, really, really needs to end.[/QUOTE]It can end very easily. All Putin has to do is withdraw his troops and it will end. Just one man's orders. As simple as that.

[QUOTE=YummyPL;2750169]It can end very easily. All Putin has to do is withdraw his troops and it will end. Just one man's orders. As simple as that.[/QUOTE]Sure, and it will end where it began: with NATO back to stealth pushing to dismember Russia. Simple as that.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2750180]Sure, and it will end where it began: with NATO back to stealth pushing to dismember Russia. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]As opposed to Russia blatantly invading other countries and taking their land and resources?

Have you guys noticed the little Ukrainian flags and bumper stickers in communities are slowly disappearing? We're all that much closer to getting smoked for a bunch of crooks.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2747472]Have you ever seen the map? Try paying attention to the size of Europe relative to the Russian landmass. This should give you some clues as to what gets wiped out or not.

Just the same, there's not going to be a nuclear Armagedeon. It's not like the insane fundamentalist zionists are anywhere near the red buttons.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of landmass, Russia is a country where 25% of people lack indoor plumbing, from which soldiers steal washing machines (a common appliance in western nations for over 50 years), and from which 700,000 people, including 300,000 military aged males have fled (10% to 20% of available). I respect the Russian people and culture, but they lack technology and as we've seen their weapons are laughable and military training non-existent. You can easily find these facts via google. What the 300,000 young men noted above do have is a survival instinct.

If Mother Russia hasn't taken the time to buy her soldier sons socks I seriously doubt she's been taking the time to maintain her nuclear arsenal. There's much greater risk of these bombs blowing up in their silos and the Russians know it. Also the first time that even a tactical nuke is dropped the US / NATO will wipe out the Black See Fleet, the Northern Fleet and ANY Russian soldier that our OUTSTANDING satellite imagery can find. Do you not understand that our highly TRAINED and EXPERIENCED military leadership has already planned for every possible scenario? Ukraine would be clear in 3-4 days and if we wanted to put up a McDonalds in Red Square we could do so by Christmas.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2751296]. Do you not understand that our highly trained and experienced military leadership has already planned for every possible scenario? Ukraine would be clear in 3-4 days and if we wanted to...[/QUOTE]Do you not understand that your highly trained and experienced military leadership has already failed to defeat adversaries in every possible scenario -- from tribesmen in sandals to viets in pajamas?

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2751342]Do you not understand that your highly trained and experienced military leadership has already failed to defeat adversaries in every possible scenario -- from tribesmen in sandals to viets in pajamas?[/QUOTE]The USA Captured all of Iraq's major cities in 3 weeks. It's a country of 40+ million. It was similar to Afghanistan. The challenge comes with guerilla warfare, the rural countryside, and the fact that the government tied the militaries hands in many ways. If Russia drops a nuke the gloves will be off with untied hands, don't kid yourself.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2751296]Regardless of landmass, Russia is a country where 25% of people lack indoor plumbing, from which soldiers steal washing machines (a common appliance in western nations for over 50 years), and from which 700,000 people, including 300,000 military aged males have fled (10% to 20% of available). I respect the Russian people and culture, but they lack technology and as we've seen their weapons are laughable and military training non-existent. You can easily find these facts via google. What the 300,000 young men noted above do have is a survival instinct.

If Mother Russia hasn't taken the time to buy her soldier sons socks I seriously doubt she's been taking the time to maintain her nuclear arsenal. There's much greater risk of these bombs blowing up in their silos and the Russians know it. Also the first time that even a tactical nuke is dropped the US / NATO will wipe out the Black See Fleet, the Northern Fleet and ANY Russian soldier that our OUTSTANDING satellite imagery can find. Do you not understand that our highly TRAINED and EXPERIENCED military leadership has already planned for every possible scenario? Ukraine would be clear in 3-4 days and if we wanted to put up a McDonalds in Red Square we could do so by Christmas.[/QUOTE]Let's not oversimplify. That "planning for every possible scenario" thingy -- I'm very skeptical. For one thing, I'm not at all convinced NATO will act quickly and decisively if Putin drops a tactical nuke on Ukraine. Even if they suddenly decide they've got balls, there will be quite a few logistical challenges.

1. Russia's fleets aren't important to their war efforts, but Russia has 60+ submarines that won't be easy to locate and take out quickly. I believe half of them are nuclear-powered.

2. Russia's occupying forces are stationed in populated areas. How are we going to take them out without destroying the cities and killing the locals?

3. Nato's direct involvement will make the war even more unpredictable than it is now. You just don't know what can finally push that maniac to push that button.

4. Don't kid yourself expecting ALL Russian strategic nukes to misfire. They have 6,000. Even if 10% reach their destinations that's game over for most of the world.

That said, we still have to press ahead supporting Ukraine, no matter what. I just hope you're right and Nato is prepared for whatever lies ahead.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2751647]Let's not oversimplify. That "planning for every possible scenario" thingy -- I'm very skeptical. For one thing, I'm not at all convinced NATO will act quickly and decisively if Putin drops a tactical nuke on Ukraine. Even if they suddenly decide they've got balls, there will be quite a few logistical challenges.

1. Russia's fleets aren't important to their war efforts, but Russia has 60+ submarines that won't be easy to locate and take out quickly. I believe half of them are nuclear-powered.

2. Russia's occupying forces are stationed in populated areas. How are we going to take them out without destroying the cities and killing the locals?

3. Nato's direct involvement will make the war even more unpredictable than it is now. You just don't know what can finally push that maniac to push that button.

4. Don't kid yourself expecting ALL Russian strategic nukes to misfire. They have 6,000. Even if 10% reach their destinations that's game over for most of the world.

That said, we still have to press ahead supporting Ukraine, no matter what. I just hope you're right and Nato is prepared for whatever lies ahead.[/QUOTE]The one that "lacks balls" is you, not NATO. Why not just join up with Kerzhog and Pedro and tell Ukraine to bend over and grab their ankles? Yes we are prepared for a "catastrophic response" if Poots uses tactical nukes, and that's precisely what you are going to see if he takes that step. The odds of that though remain very low. It would involve Russia losing the few major players left that will have anything to do with them. Plus there's no guarantee that the order would get carried out.

And the tide has turned against Russia in several significant ways.

Before elaborating on the above, I wanted to thank the senior members who sent me DMs. I initially took a break to help out a family member who was having medical issues. After that resolved I decided to take a long overdue vacation. During that extended break I realized that, while others would doubtlessly get all worked up debating every wave and ripple, I should follow my own advice about only concerning myself with tidal events. Since the end of June, when I last posted, things were mostly at a standstill until the Kharkhiv counteroffensive in September. And even that, as notable as it was (and is) is better described as a byproduct of a tidal force, rather than the force itself. Here's my reasoning:

1. Battlefield tidal forces: Russia, even after retreating from Kyiv, maintained a significant numerical advantage in terms of artillery and the ability to launch massive "fires" at a town or area to push Ukrainian forces back. The Russkies didn't care if they obliterated everything, they'd roll in and take possession of the ruins. Even with advantages in morale and competence, Ukrainian forces were fighting against the tidal force of massed artillery, and similar weapons systems. The fact they (Ukraine) were able to force a de facto stalemate is a huge credit to them.

The tide on the battlefield shifted with the introduction of HIMARS and other precision and long-range Western systems. Ukraine has been able to disrupt Russian logistics by hitting ammo dumps and fuel depots while staying out of range of Russian guns. The fact that Russian logistics are mostly railroad dependent means those weapons and fuel caches aren't that hard to locate. And if Russian forces try to spread them out that makes their logistics chain less efficient, and slower. Since the introduction of HIMARS, the M777, HARMs, etc. , Russia has been on the back foot and unable to mount any significant offensive actions. Ukraine is now on the front foot, as evidenced by both Kherson and Kharkhiv fronts, and Russia is on the defensive. Mobilization is Russia's attempt to turn the tide but, IMO, it's probably too little, and too late, and has negative consequences that affect other (non-battlefield) tidal forces.

2. Economic tidal forces: People can debate the efficacy of sanctions, and they're certainly in a constant state of enforcement vs evasion flux, but I would argue that the only proof that matters is what translates to the battlefield. Between formal (govt imposed) and informal (private company decisions) sanctions, I've seen no evidence of a shift in the prevailing tide, which is against Russia. Any money Putin may have from oil and gas sales does not seem to have translated into material benefits on the battlefield. And the mobilization, as I mentioned in #1 (above) has unintended negative consequences for the economy. By taking hundreds of thousands of working-age men out of the economy, compounded by hundreds of thousands more who have fled to avoid conscription, there will be nasty domino-effect cascades that we haven't yet begun to see. The fact the Russian economy hasn't collapsed is not the real issue. They're resilient and resourceful and I'm sure they'll find a way to muddle through. But the key point is that they haven't been able to stop their deteriorating position on the battlefield. And the pattern of losses is bound to be detrimental to the national morale and psyche.

I'm sure some will rush to point out Putin's weaponization of energy and how Europe will be affected this winter. While I don't have a crystal ball, I'd simply note that Europe has remained remarkably unified while Putin has increasingly made negotiations a non-starter. By continually ramping up the threats and showing no reluctance to shut off oil and gas flows, Russia has shown itself to be an untrustworthy bully. The only point of a negotiation is if there's confidence that agreements would be respected and that the bully wouldn't simply resume aggression in the future. Ukraine certainly has no confidence and, just as importantly, neither do the Baltics, Poland, and other significant countries. So I expect Europe will muddle through their own set of issues this winter. And, while tides can always change, I see no evidence that's happening at this time.

3. Demographic tidal forces: The brain drain that was already happening has been exacerbated by even more Russians fleeing conscription. Unrest and resentment is increasing in regions which are not ethnically Russian, like Dagestan. And millions who were previously able to ignore the "Special Military Operation" are now having to worry about their family members being sent to war. If Russia was being invaded, or if they were winning the war, they could probably be successful in creating a positive feeling in the population. But neither of those conditions holds true, which means that negative sentiment, unrest, and population outflow, are likely to continue. It's also worth noting that Russian state media, and pro-Russian social channels, have turned negative and taken to finger-pointing and blaming various figures (usually military) for failures, which probably has an amplifying effect on any negative sentiment in the population.

4. Geopolitical tidal forces: Russia has continued down the path of national isolation and even supposed "friends," like China and India, are (mildly) supportive in word rather than deed. They see Russia losing and want to maintain enough distance to avoid getting pulled down (or in). The CSTO has crumbled as Azerbaijan vs Armenia and Tajikistan vs Kyrgyzstan conflicts arise without Moscow having the ability to influence matters. Kazakhstan has cozied up to China and has openly defied Putin, refusing to acknowledge the annexation of Ukrainian territories. In fact, IIRC, only North Korea has given such acknowledgement. Even China and India have remained silent, while Turkey has openly condemned it. It's obvious to all who aren't Putin sycophants that Russia has lost influence, respect, and has retained only a fraction of it's former geopolitical position. That's a tidal force that's unlikely to change for years, or decades, if ever.

I'm sure others can add to the list above, or argue the validity of various points, so knock yourselves out. But I wanted to make this post now because it's very possible that Putin, depending on how he chooses to respond to the attack on the Kerch Strait bridge, may turn some (or all) of those tidal forces into raging cascades. Stay tuned!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2751647]Let's not oversimplify. That "planning for every possible scenario" thingy -- I'm very skeptical. For one thing, I'm not at all convinced NATO will act quickly and decisively if Putin drops a tactical nuke on Ukraine. Even if they suddenly decide they've got balls, there will be quite a few logistical challenges.

1. Russia's fleets aren't important to their war efforts, but Russia has 60+ submarines that won't be easy to locate and take out quickly. I believe half of them are nuclear-powered.

2. Russia's occupying forces are stationed in populated areas. How are we going to take them out without destroying the cities and killing the locals?

3. Nato's direct involvement will make the war even more unpredictable than it is now. You just don't know what can finally push that maniac to push that button.

4. Don't kid yourself expecting ALL Russian strategic nukes to misfire. They have 6,000. Even if 10% reach their destinations that's game over for most of the world.

That said, we still have to press ahead supporting Ukraine, no matter what. I just hope you're right and Nato is prepared for whatever lies ahead.[/QUOTE]Wow, Xman we finally agree. I also feel that most of Putin, nukes do not work, but if 10% work, that is enough to escalate this even more. Ukraine's army is definitely winning, so I was wrong, but as I said from the beginning what will this cost the country and the world. Now instead of having one Country screwed up, we are probably going to have 2. Putin is digging a huge grave, that will take years to dig out of, he needs to go. Time will tell.

Hopefully the Ukraine will take this gift and turn their country around and eliminate the corruption. I have my doubts. They owe this to the rest of the world, many are suffering financially from this ridiculous war, that should have never started and there is a lot of blame to go around, including Biden and his allies.

Putin and Z need to find a solution quick, but until the rest of the world, but pressure on them to find a solution, the crisis will only get worse. Elvis was correct, Biden wants this war and is doing nothing to end it, for whatever reason.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2751955]The one that "lacks balls" is you, not NATO. Why not just join up with Kerzhog and Pedro and tell Ukraine to bend over and grab their ankles? Yes we are prepared for a "catastrophic response" if Poots uses tactical nukes, and that's precisely what you are going to see if he takes that step. The odds of that though remain very low. It would involve Russia losing the few major players left that will have anything to do with them. Plus there's no guarantee that the order would get carried out.[/QUOTE]Before you say something that dumb, at least read the message all the way through. If you had you would've found this: "That said, we still have to press ahead supporting Ukraine, no matter what. I just hope you're right and Nato is prepared for whatever lies ahead. ".

I have good reasons to doubt Nato's competence. Why the fuck have we not given them F16? Why do we block Poland from sending them old Soviet MiGs? Why not give them long-range ATACMs if not in an attempt to appease Pu? Today Russians hit Ukraine with 100 missiles and at least half came through, yet Ukrainians have been begging for NASAMS for 6 months already (yes they've been promised once again in 2 months -- maybe). Your cavalier desktop warrior attitude is only matched by your vagueness (who do you mean by "major players", when you have no idea whether or not Pu has already removed every "middleman" between him and the nukes). Gee, I really hope WE, as you put it, know a little more than YOU do -- crossing your fingers and praying for the best.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2752021]And the tide has turned against Russia in several significant ways.

...[/QUOTE]Great summary and analysis, welcome back sir!

*salute.

[URL]https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-719300[/URL]

: More than 15,000 have confirmed participation in a sex party on a hill if Putin decides to press the red button, with participants even indicating whether they prefer anal or oral sex.

The organizers claim that the event, in which the locals will give up the atomic shelters and bunkers in favor of a sexual celebration, is so popular that "for some reason, all the apartments with a view of the hill have disappeared from real estate sites. ".

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2752219]Wow, Xman we finally agree. I also feel that most of Putin, nukes do not work, but if 10% work, that is enough to escalate this even more. Ukraine's army is definitely winning, so I was wrong, but as I said from the beginning what will this cost the country and the world. Now instead of having one Country screwed up, we are probably going to have 2. Putin is digging a huge grave, that will take years to dig out of, he needs to go. Time will tell.

Hopefully the Ukraine will take this gift and turn their country around and eliminate the corruption. I have my doubts. They owe this to the rest of the world, many are suffering financially from this ridiculous war, that should have never started and there is a lot of blame to go around, including Biden and his allies.

Putin and Z need to find a solution quick, but until the rest of the world, but pressure on them to find a solution, the crisis will only get worse. Elvis was correct, Biden wants this war and is doing nothing to end it, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]Thankfully, the professionals in the US know that 100% work and have the capability to obliterate everything. The screw ups in our military were known for generations, however it doesn't change the ability of the triad. I can attest it.

We are the same country and will remain corrupt. Your country is no less corrupt, just your corruption has its own flavor and rules. Biden has failed on peace effort. He was in a deep conflict of interest on Ukraine for years.

There are many opinions on the conflict, and I find some on The American Conservative and The Federalist make sense.

Going to the origin of the conflict, here is only one of its pages. Download it. Read it. There is nothing ridiculous in it. [URL]https://www.conflits-nations.com/le-livre-blanc[/URL].

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2752219]Putin and Z need to find a solution quick, but until the rest of the world, but pressure on them to find a solution, the crisis will only get worse. Elvis was correct, Biden wants this war and is doing nothing to end it, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]I'm always happy to find a common ground with my opponents, but you keep insisting on the impossible (Putin and Zelensky at the same table). This is not going to happen. Not because Pu is a war criminal and mass murderer, but because whatever he signs ain't worth shit. Ukraine knows that their only chance of survival is pressing ahead.

[QUOTE=Questner;2752319]Thankfully, the professionals in the US know that 100% work and have the capability to obliterate everything. The screw ups in our military were known for generations, however it doesn't change the ability of the triad. I can attest it.[/QUOTE]Aha. In the most astonishingly corrupt big country on planet Earth, the arsenal of 6,000 nukes is sacred. No one embezzles. No one steals. No one drinks themselves into oblivion. No one cuts corners. Everything works like a clock. Swiss clock, not Russian. Yeah, sure.

Whatever is the nature of your delusion, the Russian Empire is as good as dead. Too bad she's chosen such a bloody and despicable path to self-destruction. Didn't have to be.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2752538]I'm always happy to find a common ground with my opponents, but you keep insisting on the impossible (Putin and Zelensky at the same table). This is not going to happen. Not because Pu is a war criminal and mass murderer, but because whatever he signs ain't worth shit. Ukraine knows that their only chance of survival is pressing ahead.

Aha. In the most astonishingly corrupt big country on planet Earth, the arsenal of 6,000 nukes is sacred. No one embezzles. No one steals. No one drinks themselves into oblivion. No one cuts corners. Everything works like a clock. Swiss clock, not Russian. Yeah, sure.

Whatever is the nature of your delusion, the Russian Empire is as good as dead. Too bad she's chosen such a bloody and despicable path to self-destruction. Didn't have to be.[/QUOTE]Xman they should have been negotiating from the beginning, you should always negotiate even if you hate your opponent. Nothing bad can come from talking. This war should have never happened and nobody is going to win with the exception of a few politicians and arms dealers. This is worst case scenario minus the nuclear option.

Again you liberals live in a fantasy world, how are you going to enforce war crimes, we are not going into Russia unless he decides to go nuclear and then Russia will be wiped out and this is bad for everyone. I know CNN likes to talk about this garbage, but is impossible to enforce war crimes and I am sure your boy Pres. Z is guilty of many things as well, he is no Choir Boy. Try to live in the really world.

This is from a retired four star US Army general who gives us some ideas of what Putin can expect if he uses a tactical nuke. Rest assured he knows much more about it than anyone in a hooker forum.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL90ljiNuSs[/URL]

Poots is more likely to get put out to pasture (forced retirement) before that happens, among other outcomes. See the video, interview with his former speechwriter on the regular Kyiv thread that I just posted.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2752219]Putin and Z need to find a solution quick, but until the rest of the world, but pressure on them to find a solution, the crisis will only get worse. Elvis was correct, Biden wants this war and is doing nothing to end it, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]It has been demonstrated again and again, that deals agreed with Putin are not honoured. It's not possible to come to a negotiated settlement with someone who will not hold up their side of the agreement. Ukraine will only have peace if they can decisively kick the Russians out, and even then, I expect constant sabotage from the Russians until there is real regime change.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2752738]It has been demonstrated again and again, that deals agreed with Putin are not honoured. It's not possible to come to a negotiated settlement with someone who will not hold up their side of the agreement. Ukraine will only have peace if they can decisively kick the Russians out, and even then, I expect constant sabotage from the Russians until there is real regime change.[/QUOTE]You are correct, but Ukraine's government is not much better. Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia, in something probably more corrupt. Sorry, Ukraine government is horrible, maybe they will change, but I have my doubts.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2752021]And the tide has turned against Russia in several significant ways.

Before elaborating on the above, I wanted to thank the senior members who sent me DMs. I initially took a break to help out a family member who was having medical issues. After that resolved I decided to take a long overdue vacation. During that extended break I realized that, while others would doubtlessly get all worked up debating every wave and ripple, I should follow my own advice about only concerning myself with tidal events. Since the end of June, when I last posted, things were mostly at a standstill until the Kharkhiv counteroffensive in September. And even that, as notable as it was (and is) is better described as a byproduct of a tidal force, rather than the force itself. Here's my reasoning:

1. Battlefield tidal forces: Russia, even after retreating from Kyiv, maintained a significant numerical advantage in terms of artillery and the ability to launch massive "fires" at a town or area to push Ukrainian forces back. The Russkies didn't care if they obliterated everything, they'd roll in and take possession of the ruins. Even with advantages in morale and competence, Ukrainian forces were fighting against the tidal force of massed artillery, and similar weapons systems. The fact they (Ukraine) were able to force a de facto stalemate is a huge credit to them.

The tide on the battlefield shifted with the introduction of HIMARS and other precision and long-range Western systems. Ukraine has been able to disrupt Russian logistics by hitting ammo dumps and fuel depots while staying out of range of Russian guns. The fact that Russian logistics are mostly railroad dependent means those weapons and fuel caches aren't that hard to locate. And if Russian forces try to spread them out that makes their logistics chain less efficient, and slower. Since the introduction of HIMARS, the M777, HARMs, etc. , Russia has been on the back foot and unable to mount any significant offensive actions. Ukraine is now on the front foot, as evidenced by both Kherson and Kharkhiv fronts, and Russia is on the defensive. Mobilization is Russia's attempt to turn the tide but, IMO, it's probably too little, and too late, and has negative consequences that affect other (non-battlefield) tidal forces.

2. Economic tidal forces: People can debate the efficacy of sanctions, and they're certainly in a constant state of enforcement vs evasion flux, but I would argue that the only proof that matters is what translates to the battlefield. Between formal (govt imposed) and informal (private company decisions) sanctions, I've seen no evidence of a shift in the prevailing tide, which is against Russia. Any money Putin may have from oil and gas sales does not seem to have translated into material benefits on the battlefield. And the mobilization, as I mentioned in #1 (above) has unintended negative consequences for the economy. By taking hundreds of thousands of working-age men out of the economy, compounded by hundreds of thousands more who have fled to avoid conscription, there will be nasty domino-effect cascades that we haven't yet begun to see. The fact the Russian economy hasn't collapsed is not the real issue. They're resilient and resourceful and I'm sure they'll find a way to muddle through. But the key point is that they haven't been able to stop their deteriorating position on the battlefield. And the pattern of losses is bound to be detrimental to the national morale and psyche.

I'm sure some will rush to point out Putin's weaponization of energy and how Europe will be affected this winter. While I don't have a crystal ball, I'd simply note that Europe has remained remarkably unified while Putin has increasingly made negotiations a non-starter. By continually ramping up the threats and showing no reluctance to shut off oil and gas flows, Russia has shown itself to be an untrustworthy bully. The only point of a negotiation is if there's confidence that agreements would be respected and that the bully wouldn't simply resume aggression in the future. Ukraine certainly has no confidence and, just as importantly, neither do the Baltics, Poland, and other significant countries. So I expect Europe will muddle through their own set of issues this winter. And, while tides can always change, I see no evidence that's happening at this time.

3. Demographic tidal forces: The brain drain that was already happening has been exacerbated by even more Russians fleeing conscription. Unrest and resentment is increasing in regions which are not ethnically Russian, like Dagestan. And millions who were previously able to ignore the "Special Military Operation" are now having to worry about their family members being sent to war. If Russia was being invaded, or if they were winning the war, they could probably be successful in creating a positive feeling in the population. But neither of those conditions holds true, which means that negative sentiment, unrest, and population outflow, are likely to continue. It's also worth noting that Russian state media, and pro-Russian social channels, have turned negative and taken to finger-pointing and blaming various figures (usually military) for failures, which probably has an amplifying effect on any negative sentiment in the population.

4. Geopolitical tidal forces: Russia has continued down the path of national isolation and even supposed "friends," like China and India, are (mildly) supportive in word rather than deed. They see Russia losing and want to maintain enough distance to avoid getting pulled down (or in). The CSTO has crumbled as Azerbaijan vs Armenia and Tajikistan vs Kyrgyzstan conflicts arise without Moscow having the ability to influence matters. Kazakhstan has cozied up to China and has openly defied Putin, refusing to acknowledge the annexation of Ukrainian territories. In fact, IIRC, only North Korea has given such acknowledgement. Even China and India have remained silent, while Turkey has openly condemned it. It's obvious to all who aren't Putin sycophants that Russia has lost influence, respect, and has retained only a fraction of it's former geopolitical position. That's a tidal force that's unlikely to change for years, or decades, if ever.

I'm sure others can add to the list above, or argue the validity of various points, so knock yourselves out. But I wanted to make this post now because it's very possible that Putin, depending on how he chooses to respond to the attack on the Kerch Strait bridge, may turn some (or all) of those tidal forces into raging cascades. Stay tuned![/QUOTE]I can't disagree with much of what you wrote here. I took a break from this thread because there wasn't much new being said. You still have the Russian fanboys still spreading nonsense here.

I think we knew back this summer the Ukrainians with Western weapons could defend themselves. I am somewhat surprised how much success the Ukrainians have had in such a short time. Besides the Western weapons, it seems that Ukraine's Western-influenced military strategy is far superior to Russia's strategic capabilities. Of course whether it be war or business, if you don't have the resources (effective weapons) and effective implementation the strategy is likely moot. That's not to mention underestimating your opponent and having a complete lack of understanding of the battlefield.

As many commentators have noted, we are in a very dangerous stage in the war. Russian defeats triggering Putin to just destroy things in response. The Russian military (as any large military) is very capable at destruction. You mentioned the Kerch Bridge and the likelihood of Putin's "raging cascades". No surprise that is what we got this week.

I'm sure some of you realize we are in a very different asymmetric war. One where both parties are acting with some restraint in their offensive strikes. Now we have the larger party in this war increasingly becoming less restrained. The smaller party can attack, but risks attacking their opponent too deep.

I now don't see an off-ramp for Russia (Putin) through negotiation. That option seems to becoming more and more of an impossibility. Perhaps the only real resolution to the conflict comes from Putin being deposed by the Russians themselves. Clearly, engaging in a war with an autocratic leader who realizes he has nothing to lose puts us in a very dangerous place.

Maybe I'm optimistic, but I long for one of those deals where a peaceful retirement is negotiated with a failing autocrat. Basically, Putin can take some of his loot and run off to some neutral country that would agree to have you. That's not to say some Russian government of the near future doesn't send some agents to perform a Trotsky on him.

Hi folks,

Heading to Kyiv for business. Anyone know of any freelance secretaries / translators (don't have to be 100% fluent in English)/ general fixers / helpers?

Please post here or DM!

Thanks,

AX.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2752788]You are correct, but Ukraine's government is not much better. Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia, in something probably more corrupt. Sorry, Ukraine government is horrible, maybe they will change, but I have my doubts.[/QUOTE]You keep saying how horrible Ukrainian government is. Apparently it isn't as corrupt or as terrible since they've been beating the living shit out of the "second world army" for 7 months. Apparently, if they had been AS corrupt and AS terrible as you claim them to be, they would've just taken the Russian money and handed their country to Putin on a silver platter (as he expected they would). Apparently if Zelensky had been AS corrupt AS you make him to be, he would've cared first and foremost about saving his ass and would've caved in or at least taken the flight to safety when it was offered by the Americans.

That being said, corruption has nothing to do with the negotiation you're demanding. Despite what has been said a thousand times by me and other people, you simply refuse to understand that any negotiation with Putin doesn't make any sense because Putin won't adhere to any agreement or treaty he signs today, in his day of weakness. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Putin [B]has already violated every single agreement he has signed with or in regard to Ukraine to this day[/B]?

[QUOTE=Anaximander;2753014]Hi folks,

Heading to Kyiv for business. Anyone know of any freelance secretaries / translators (don't have to be 100% fluent in English)/ general fixers / helpers?

Please post here or DM!

Thanks,

AX.[/QUOTE]I know one, if you can purchase the right to send a DM, then I can share details.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2752788]You are correct, but Ukraine's government is not much better. Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia, in something probably more corrupt. Sorry, Ukraine government is horrible, maybe they will change, but I have my doubts.[/QUOTE]I think we can safely say that after watching the performance of the RU military, and seeing what has happened in the background, as well as all the mysterious deaths of oligarchs and officials that oppose the war. To say that the level of corruption in UA is more corrupt is quite frankly ridiculous.

UA has some serious problems with corruption, however it is nowhere near on the level of RU.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2751647]Let's not oversimplify. That "planning for every possible scenario" thingy -- I'm very skeptical. For one thing, I'm not at all convinced NATO will act quickly and decisively if Putin drops a tactical nuke on Ukraine. Even if they suddenly decide they've got balls, there will be quite a few logistical challenges.
...
That said, we still have to press ahead supporting Ukraine, no matter what. I just hope you're right and Nato is prepared for whatever lies ahead.[/QUOTE]Agree with everything you wrote and points #1 to #4 are excellent. I think NATO will be prepared, the question is NATO's will to execute, particularly at the individual country level. I believe the considerations for a country like Estonia will be much different from France, or Turkey, or the US. These will include considerations for soldiers to be lost, proximity to Russia, arms cost, economic impact and potential radiation. Some countries like Poland and Baltics are chomping at the bit to fight, most others have a less aggressive stance.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2753123]I think we can safely say that after watching the performance of the RU military, and seeing what has happened in the background, as well as all the mysterious deaths of oligarchs and officials that oppose the war. To say that the level of corruption in UA is more corrupt is quite frankly ridiculous.

UA has some serious problems with corruption, however it is nowhere near on the level of RU.[/QUOTE]You are correct, I should have said before Covid and the War. Russia was great place and highly functioning. Ukraine was dump. Unfortunately, as a result of the war we will probably end up with 2 screwed up countries instead of one. Not to mention the world economy.

Putin definitely needs to go, he has really screwed things up, for the entire world not just Ukraine and Russia. Time will tell if this war was worth it and maybe both countries will get their acts together, I have my doubts. Many political leaders wanted this war, now they have their wish.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2753448]You are correct, I should have said before Covid and the War. Russia was great place and highly functioning.[/QUOTE]I have always heard (including from here) that Moscow and Saint Petersburg were the only nice and highly functioning cities in Russia and the USSR before that. Other Russian cities are suppose to be dumps. Kiev could have been held back by the Soviet planners.

I just think we need to stand back and look at the bigger picture.

[QUOTE=Anaximander;2753014]Hi folks,

Heading to Kyiv for business. Anyone know of any freelance secretaries / translators (don't have to be 100% fluent in English)/ general fixers / helpers?

Please post here or DM!.[/QUOTE]If recent days have demonstrated anything, it's that all of Ukraine is a war zone. In fact, the worse Putin's forces do on the actual battlefield, the greater the chance he'll launch missiles or drone-bombs at civilian areas.

Now, it's certainly true that the deaths and casualties from such attacks are usually somewhere in the double digits. But it's also true that each of those killed is 100% dead. It's rather like Russian Roulette (pun intended) in that the odds may be in your favor but the negative consequences, should they happen, are catastrophic. And it really doesn't matter much what the supposed targets are because many of the missiles and drones aren't that precise, or they land off-target as Ukrainian defenses try to shoot them down. You could be in a residential or office building, in a park, in a restaurant, or simply on the street. One moment all is fine. The next moment everything goes black (forever).

If you're working for yourself, then that's a scenario in which you assume the risk for yourself. But, if an employer is knowingly (or unthinkingly) sending you into a war zone, then shame on them.

I personally wouldn't engage in discretionary travel to Ukraine until a real cessation of hostilities takes place. And I sure as hell wouldn't send someone for whom I'm responsible (as a manager, owner, or otherwise). But that's just me.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2753394]Agree with everything you wrote and points #1 to #4 are excellent. I think NATO will be prepared.[/QUOTE]And we have the answer.

[QUOTE]European Union foreign policy chief Josep Borrell also warned Putin not to cross that threshold. “Any nuclear attack against Ukraine will create an answer, not a nuclear answer but such a powerful answer from the military side that the Russian Army will be annihilated,” he said in a speech in Bruges, Belgium.[/QUOTE][URL]https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/nato-holds-nuclear-talks-amid-war-tensions-putin-91429572[/URL]

This is specific enough for me. Ballsy too. I'll happily eat crow.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2753501]I have always heard (including from here) that Moscow and Saint Petersburg were the only nice and highly functioning cities in Russia and the USSR before that. Other Russian cities are suppose to be dumps. Kiev could have been held back by the Soviet planners.

I just think we need to stand back and look at the bigger picture.[/QUOTE]Not quite. It's been a very very long time since I was in Russia, but I would add Kazan, Yekaterinburg and perhaps Irkutsk to the list of cities worth visiting for sightseeing or more horizontal activities. Sochi should also be beautiful now after they got a lift before the Olympics as long as you shrug off their "Caucasian Riviera" shtick. Of course, I doubt I'll ever be willing to set my foot in that country again no matter how functional or monger-worthy their cities are, but that's another story.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2753501]I have always heard (including from here) that Moscow and Saint Petersburg were the only nice and highly functioning cities in Russia and the USSR before that. Other Russian cities are suppose to be dumps. Kiev could have been held back by the Soviet planners.

I just think we need to stand back and look at the bigger picture.[/QUOTE]Russia was amazing, before the war and Covid. The guys that wrote that the only 2 cities that are nice are St. Pet. And Moscow. These guys hate Russia.

Russia and the people are not the issue. The problem is Putin and yes, he needs to go.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2754025], he needs to go.[/QUOTE]The clown needs to go.

[QUOTE=Riina;2754639]The clown needs to go.[/QUOTE]Sorry, you are the one that has been spreading lies about Ukraine for years. You and couple of your crazy ass friends should be ashamed of yourselves. Kiev has been dead for girls for almost 10 years now, but you guys keep lying. Yes, Russia was a great place before Covid, unfortunately that ship had sailed and yes, Kiev was a shit show.

Guys read your crazy ass posts and booked trips as a result. You and your buddies should be ashamed of yourself.

Ukraine might actually get a 3rd or 4th chance to straighten out there country, but I am sure they will screw it up as always. Try be honest and post a really report about Ukraine was, instead of this fantasy world you and your looser friends live in.

[QUOTE=Riina;2754639]The clown needs to go.[/QUOTE]Could not agree more!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2754025]Russia was amazing, before the war and Covid. The guys that wrote that the only 2 cities that are nice are St. Pet. And Moscow. These guys hate Russia.

Russia and the people are not the issue. The problem is Putin and yes, he needs to go.[/QUOTE]Well, I don't know if "amazing" isn't an overstatement.

Are you well-traveled? What other mongering destinations have you been to. I mean if you compare the "used-to-be Russia" to the dreadful mongering scene in America I can understand.

Otherwise? Yes, young Russian girls can be model quality (I emphasize "young" because Russian women don't usually age gracefully). And yes, they know how to dress. But Russia has always been overpriced, especially Moscow. SP was a little better, but, strangely, more interior cities were a mixed bag. So if we are talking about Moscow, what made it better than other overpriced European capitals? I just came from Lisbon. There is a thriving mongering scene there, and while it's still a bit pricey for my tastes, it's cheaper than Moscow 15 years ago.

In terms of your other sentiment, I'm sorry but the Russian people are the ones who are fanning this war. Some of them might live without running water, but they totally share their chieftain's imperial ambitions. Blaming this despicable crime on one, even very bad man is an extreme simplification and wishful thinking, nothing else.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2754859]Well, I don't know if "amazing" isn't an overstatement.

Are you well-traveled? What other mongering destinations have you been to.[/QUOTE]LOL Drama Queen hasn't traveled beyond his mother's basement except to walk up to the kitchen for a free meal. He claimed to have gone to Medellin, Colombia and found it full of "fat chicks. " What he failed to realize, having never been there, is that the city is full of fitness freaks and people obsessed with their appearance while obesity is hardly seen. He was confusing Medellin with what he read about Mexican border towns.

In any case, he hasn't been to Ukraine or Russia or even Europe so don't interact with him on that level. He's only here to recycle what he heard on Tucker Carlson or like blogs that pitch sucking up to Russia and simpleton America First hogwash to poorly educated Americans and Euros. And he likely has more than one handle here.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2754958]LOL Drama Queen hasn't traveled beyond his mother's basement except to walk up to the kitchen for a free meal. He claimed to have gone to Medellin, Colombia and found it full of "fat chicks. " What he failed to realize, having never been there, is that the city is full of fitness freaks and people obsessed with their appearance while obesity is hardly seen. He was confusing Medellin with what he read about Mexican border towns.

In any case, he hasn't been to Ukraine or Russia or even Europe so don't interact with him on that level. He's only here to recycle what he heard on Tucker Carlson or like blogs that pitch sucking up to Russia and simpleton America First hogwash to poorly educated Americans and Euros. And he likely has more than one handle here.[/QUOTE]Pauline you live in Fantasy world. You fit in perfectly with the clowns that say Kiev has been a great place for mongering for the last 5 years. You are correct, I wish I never went to MDE, it is a total shit show. Fat chicks, drugs, violence and horrible food, I guess that is paradise.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2754859] So if we are talking about Moscow, what made it better than other overpriced European capitals? I just came from Lisbon. There is a thriving mongering scene there, and while it's still a bit pricey for my tastes, it's cheaper than Moscow 15 years ago.
[/QUOTE]Lisbon is a Western city. Mongering there is very transactional. Kiev and Moscow are different. The doors are wide open to unique experiences and sugar daddy stuff.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2754958]LOL Drama Queen hasn't traveled beyond his mother's basement except to walk up to the kitchen for a free meal. He claimed to have gone to Medellin, Colombia and found it full of "fat chicks. " What he failed to realize, having never been there, is that the city is full of fitness freaks and people obsessed with their appearance while obesity is hardly seen. He was confusing Medellin with what he read about Mexican border towns.

In any case, he hasn't been to Ukraine or Russia or even Europe so don't interact with him on that level. He's only here to recycle what he heard on Tucker Carlson or like blogs that pitch sucking up to Russia and simpleton America First hogwash to poorly educated Americans and Euros. And he likely has more than one handle here.[/QUOTE]He's a compulsive liar. He's posted in the past that he's lived in Ukraine twice and in another another post he claimed three times. Who the fuck confuses the number of times they lived in a foreign country? No one. He also lied about visiting Tijuana 20-30 times during the first year of the pandemic despite how easy it is to see his own post history debunks his claim. He constantly bags on Colombia where I doubt he's ever been. His posts consist of generalities or info anyone could regurgitate from reading ISG.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755091]You fit in perfectly with the clowns that say Kiev has been a great place for mongering for the last 5 years.[/QUOTE]The clown is you. Any time people talk about enjoying the Kyiv experience, your comments often put down the whole scene. We get it, you liked it before, but many of us have had a great time there in recent years, accept it and move on.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2755160]The clown is you. Any time people talk about enjoying the Kyiv experience, your comments often put down the whole scene. We get it, you liked it before, but many of us have had a great time there in recent years, accept it and move on.[/QUOTE]Wrong!! I would not criticize someone for having fun, if they write an accurate report. Rog. And his band of brothers have been lying and exaggerating for years, why stop now. If you have actually been to Kiev and read their reports you would understand this.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755091]Pauline you live in Fantasy world. You fit in perfectly with the clowns that say Kiev has been a great place for mongering for the last 5 years. You are correct, I wish I never went to MDE, it is a total shit show. Fat chicks, drugs, violence and horrible food, I guess that is paradise.[/QUOTE]Checking in from the Medellin Forum. You clearly haven't been there. Like EVER. LOL. It's the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. With the possible exception of the food. And I would not say it's 'horrible' it simply lacks imagination and spices.

Hopefully your mom can afford cable next year. I'm sure the basement is pretty boring given your need to make up stories.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2755199]Checking in from the Medellin Forum. You clearly haven't been there. Like EVER. LOL. It's the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. With the possible exception of the food. And I would not say it's 'horrible' it simply lacks imagination and spices.

Hopefully your mom can afford cable next year. I'm sure the basement is pretty boring given your need to make up stories.[/QUOTE]Mxico is so much better then Colombia, sorry. We can agree on the bad food.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755202]Mxico is so much better then Colombia, sorry. We can agree on the bad food.[/QUOTE]Very good, agree to disagree. If you ever give Colombia a shot again shoot me a DM and I'll share my thoughts and / or guide you myself.

I do agree that Mexico, particularly Mexico City can be great for the hobby and food, history, and sophistication more interesting in many ways.

[QUOTE=Riina;2755140]Lisbon is a Western city. Mongering there is very transactional. Kiev and Moscow are different. The doors are wide open to unique experiences and sugar daddy stuff.[/QUOTE]Sugar daddy stuff? You're calling that unique?

OK, fine, I don't care. I'm glad you had your fun whatever it is.

Just stop blaming the victim that the fun is no longer there.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2755261]Sugar daddy stuff? You're calling that unique?

OK, fine, I don't care. I'm glad you had your fun whatever it is.

Just stop blaming the victim that the fun is no longer there.[/QUOTE]Wasn't even a political comment. You really are a troll.

[QUOTE=LuvMexicanas;2755155]He's a compulsive liar. He's posted in the past that he's lived in Ukraine twice and in another another post he claimed three times. Who the fuck confuses the number of times they lived in a foreign country? No one. He also lied about visiting Tijuana 20-30 times during the first year of the pandemic despite how easy it is to see his own post history debunks his claim. He constantly bags on Colombia where I doubt he's ever been. His posts consist of generalities or info anyone could regurgitate from reading ISG.[/QUOTE]L. Mudd. Now I see you are asking for advice about Laredo, you can not go much lower. Laredo is truly the bottom of the barrel, but Laredo is probably High Class for you. Maybe, Pauline and some of the other clowns you hang out with can meet you Laredo, Hell maybe you guys can have a reunion and write bad posts. You are an expert on being cheap and making shit up.

You would fit in perfectly with the guys that lie about Kiev, I doubt you have ever been to either Kiev or Moscow, but why would that stop you.

I see you where CDMX, when I was there, of course you never took my invitation to meet, just like Pauline. You prefer to just make shit up about me. I am in MTY or CDMX every 10 days you and your loser friends can meet me anytime. It is really amazing how you get away with the stuff you say, it makes you wonder.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755545]L. Mudd. Now I see you are asking for advice about Laredo, you can not go much lower. Laredo is truly the bottom of the barrel, but Laredo is probably High Class for you. Maybe, Pauline and some of the other clowns you hang out with can meet you Laredo, Hell maybe you guys can have a reunion and write bad posts. You are an expert on being cheap and making shit up.

You would fit in perfectly with the guys that lie about Kiev, I doubt you have ever been to either Kiev or Moscow, but why would that stop you.

I see you where CDMX, when I was there, of course you never took my invitation to meet, just like Pauline. You prefer to just make shit up about me. I am in MTY or CDMX every 10 days you and your loser friends can meet me anytime. It is really amazing how you get away with the stuff you say, it makes you wonder.[/QUOTE]Classic DramaFreak reaction to lash out with a bunch of tangential shit to divert attention from his past lies.

[QUOTE=LuvMexicanas;2755752]Classic DramaFreak reaction to lash out with a bunch of tangential shit to divert attention from his past lies.[/QUOTE]You are truly a bottom feeder, hanging out in Laredo. Have you ever been to Moscow or Ukraine, I highly doubt you are too cheap.

[QUOTE=Chicago85;2755247]Very good, agree to disagree. If you ever give Colombia a shot again shoot me a DM and I'll share my thoughts and / or guide you myself.

I do agree that Mexico, particularly Mexico City can be great for the hobby and food, history, and sophistication more interesting in many ways.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the invite that is very nice. Best of luck. I am super happy in CDMX and MTY, no need to change. I miss Tijuana, but travel costs have went up dramatically from.

Texas.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755873]You are truly a bottom feeder, hanging out in Laredo. Have you ever been to Moscow or Ukraine, I highly doubt you are too cheap.[/QUOTE]I was in the area for other reasons and took the opportunity to check it out. It's a one time thing to cross it off the list of the many border towns that exist, but you'll be a liar for life. When were you last in Ukraine to where you speak with so much authority on it?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2755185]Wrong!! I would not criticize someone for having fun, if they write an accurate report. Rog. And his band of brothers have been lying and exaggerating for years, why stop now. If you have actually been to Kiev and read their reports you would understand this.[/QUOTE]If one has truly a great time, in Kyiv or otherwise, I'm not sure if he would report the details here.

I haven't. I think we want to keep it secret.

Sure, Kiev was better 10 years ago and more. It was great in 2008-2009.

But as I gained more skills there, my experience improved. So for me the best time was 2018-2019.

So sad, it might be forever gone now.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2747291]Your "sympathy" is not required. [/QUOTE]I think you do. You need sympathy, or to be more precise, love.

Just like what Osama bin Laden needed was love.

That's the way to get rid of hate.

[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2747291]Save it for some stray dog in one of your drug addled cities. [/QUOTE]I did.

Another one bites the dust! Hey, hey, hey another one bites the dust!

[URL]https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/31/oligarch-renounces-tinkov-russian-citizenship-ukraine-war[/URL]

Bucha was only one of many killing sites left by the Russian troops in their hasty retreat, but it was the first one. And the one that's been studied extensively.

One of the units that committed war crimes in Bucha was the 64th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade. In April 2022, the brigade received the honorary guards status from Putin for the job well done.

The film is difficult to watch, just a fair warning.

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4[/URL]

[QUOTE]The first man arrived at 7:27 a.m. Russian soldiers covered his head and marched him up the driveway toward a nondescript office building.

Two minutes later, a pleading, gagged voice pierced the morning stillness. Then the merciless reply: Talk! Talk, f--ing mother-f--er!

The women and children came later, gripping hastily packed bags, their pet dogs in tow.

It was a cold, gray morning, March 4 in Bucha, Ukraine. Crows cawed. By nightfall, at least nine men would walk to their deaths at 144 Yablunska street, a building complex that Russians turned into a headquarters and the nerve center of violence that would shock the world.

Later, when all the bodies were found strewn along the streets and packed in hasty graves, it would be easy to think the carnage was random. Residents asking how this happened would be told to make their peace, because some questions just dont have answers.

Yet there was a method to the violence.

What happened that day in Bucha was what Russian soldiers on intercepted phone conversations called zachistka cleansing. The Russians hunted people on lists prepared by their intelligence services and went door to door to identify potential threats. Those who didnt pass this filtration, including volunteer fighters and civilians suspected of assisting Ukrainian troops, were tortured and executed, surveillance video, audio intercepts and interviews show.

The Associated Press and the PBS series Frontline obtained surveillance camera footage from Bucha that shows, for the first time, what a cleansing operation in Ukraine looks like. This was organized brutality that would be repeated at scale in Russian-occupied territories across Ukraine a strategy to neutralize resistance and terrorize locals into submission that Russian troops have used in past conflicts, notably Chechnya.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2759612]Bucha was only one of many killing sites left by the Russian troops in their hasty retreat, but it was the first one. And the one that's been studied extensively.

One of the units that committed war crimes in Bucha was the 64th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade. In April 2022, the brigade received the honorary guards status from Putin for the job well done.

The film is difficult to watch, just a fair warning.

[URL]https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4[/URL][/QUOTE]XMan war is Hell and people die. This is what happens, both parties are guilty. These guys need to find some middle ground and reach a settlement.

Yes, Putin is horrible guy, he will not quit and good luck prosecuting war criminals, unless we invade Russia.

And that is not going to happen unless Putin nukes Ukraine.

I am in Mexico City having fun, you should do the the same.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2759642]XMan war is Hell and people die. This is what happens, [b]both parties are guilty[/b]. These guys need to find some middle ground and reach a settlement.

Yes, Putin is horrible guy, he will not quit and good luck prosecuting war criminals, unless we invade Russia.

And that is not going to happen unless Putin nukes Ukraine.

I am in Mexico City having fun, you should do the the same.[/QUOTE]You're saying "war is hell" as if it's a natural disaster like earthquake. It's not. Wars are started by people (or monsters in this particular case).

But then you attempt to qualify by stating " both parties are guilty. " That's an outrageous falsehood, but at least it explains your rather detached "war is hell" cliche. No, Drama, both parties are not guilty. Only one party is guilty. Putin is the aggressor while Ukraine is being attacked. Lumping together an aggressor and the victim is the dumbest thing you could've done.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2759697]You're saying "war is hell" as if it's a natural disaster like earthquake. It's not. Wars are started by people (or monsters in this particular case).

But then you attempt to qualify by stating " both parties are guilty. " That's an outrageous falsehood, but at least it explains your rather detached "war is hell" cliche. No, Drama, both parties are not guilty. Only one party is guilty. Putin is the aggressor while Ukraine is being attacked. Lumping together an aggressor and the victim is the dumbest thing you could've done.[/QUOTE]Both parties are guilty. You live in a fantasy world. You guys wanted a war and bad things happen during wars. Yes, Pres. Z is guilty of war crimes, not as bad a Putin, but nevertheless crimes.

The funny thing is, I have talked about negotiating and finding a solution, you and your crazy ass friends want this to continue. The world is going into a recession and Europe is about to freeze there ass off this winter, I guess this is what you wanted. All this could have been prevented.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2759642]XMan war is Hell and people die. This is what happens, both parties are guilty. These guys need to find some middle ground and reach a settlement.[/QUOTE]In the context of the Bucha massacre, can you please clarify what you mean by "both parties are guilty"?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2759735]Both parties are guilty. You live in a fantasy world. [b]You guys wanted a war[/b] and bad things happen during wars. Yes, Pres. Z is guilty of war crimes, not as bad a Putin, but nevertheless crimes.

The funny thing is, I have talked about negotiating and finding a solution, you and your crazy ass friends want this to continue. The world is going into a recession and Europe is about to freeze there ass off this winter, I guess this is what you wanted. All this could have been prevented.[/QUOTE]Sure. Just double down on every idiotic notion in your repertoire. There's no better way to win an argument, right?

And your "you guys wanted a war" is simply priceless. Well done!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2760641]Sure. Just double down on every idiotic notion in your repertoire. There's no better way to win an argument, right?

And your "you guys wanted a war" is simply priceless. Well done![/QUOTE]Yep, you guys wanted a war and now deal with consequences. Maybe the Euros, Pres. Z. , Bidden and the rest of your liberal buddies might have thought this out.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2759735]Both parties are guilty. You live in a fantasy world. You guys wanted a war and bad things happen during wars. Yes, Pres. Z is guilty of war crimes, not as bad a Putin, but nevertheless crimes.

The funny thing is, I have talked about negotiating and finding a solution, you and your crazy ass friends want this to continue. The world is going into a recession and Europe is about to freeze there ass off this winter, I guess this is what you wanted. All this could have been prevented.[/QUOTE]Could you please let us know what Warcrimes Zelinsky has ordered?

Europe will not freeze this winter, the Gas stocks are full most places, so this will not be an problem.

What solution you want?

Yes he can move his orcs back to russia anno 2014 and then we can talk.

Else there is nothing else to Burn the Orcs again and again.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2760670]Yep, you guys wanted a war and now deal with consequences. Maybe the Euros, Pres. Z. , Bidden and the rest of your liberal buddies might have thought this out.[/QUOTE]Who are "you guys"? Don't hold back, be specific.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2760670]Yep, you guys wanted a war and now deal with consequences. Maybe the Euros, Pres. Z. , Bidden and the rest of your liberal buddies might have thought this out.[/QUOTE]No one wanted a war except Putin, remember when head of state, after head of state tried to de-escalate. Putin claimed he would never invade, and then did it anyway.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2760916]No one wanted a war except Putin, remember when head of state, after head of state tried to de-escalate. Putin claimed he would never invade, and then did it anyway.[/QUOTE]Just not true. Biden and the Euro's have done nothing to deescalate the war. If they really wanted to win, for starters we could start producing oil, but that makes too much sense.

They are just now starting to talk about making Pres. Z. to negotiate. This should have been going on months ago. Again Ukraine might actually win the war, but end up with nothing. A country destroyed, the Infrastructure is in ruins, a large number of the population will be dead, crippled, and the smart ones left the country never to return. I am sorry this is not winning.

The Ruskies have fled from Kherson! Where is "Pedro Immorales" now (and the rest of the Kremlin trolls) talking a bunch of bullshit about the Ruskies winning the war LOLOLOL! The third major land battle defeat for "Pewtin". And at sea? Ruskie warship go fuck yourself LMAO! What a major cluster fuck of a disaster by Russia's two-bit dictator of a "leader"! Hahaha! We stand with Ukraine!

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2760993]Just not true. Biden and the Euro's have done nothing to deescalate the war. If they really wanted to win, for starters we could start producing oil, but that makes too much sense.

They are just now starting to talk about making Pres. Z. to negotiate. This should have been going on months ago. Again Ukraine might actually win the war, but end up with nothing. A country destroyed, the Infrastructure is in ruins, a large number of the population will be dead, crippled, and the smart ones left the country never to return. I am sorry this is not winning.[/QUOTE]You newer negotiate before you have a good standpoint, NEWER.

Ukraine is far from destroyed.

Less then 3% of the population if we take the worst case scenario.

Smart ones left the country?

Have you ever been in ukraine, the smart ones are still here, and the ones that left will return many of them.

You lack basic knowledge on the Ukrain people, you think of them as russians.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2760993]Just not true. Biden and the Euro's have done nothing to deescalate the war. If they really wanted to win, for starters we could start producing oil, but that makes too much sense.

They are just now starting to talk about making Pres. Z. to negotiate. This should have been going on months ago. Again Ukraine might actually win the war, but end up with nothing. A country destroyed, the Infrastructure is in ruins, a large number of the population will be dead, crippled, and the smart ones left the country never to return. I am sorry this is not winning.[/QUOTE]You realize that Kiev was the one that started fucking up Crimea right? Or are you not able to remember past the last thing CNN told you? And there's a reason the Azoff Battalion uses Nazi imagery on their standards. The only reason the West is involved is to stop Putin from getting his hands on all the records of their money laundering AND to fight BRIC which once it gets going will start fucking up the Euro / Dollar immediately.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2761160]You newer negotiate before you have a good standpoint, NEWER.

Ukraine is far from destroyed.

Less then 3% of the population if we take the worst case scenario.

Smart ones left the country?

Have you ever been in Ukraine, the smart ones are still here, and the ones that left will return many of them.

You lack basic knowledge on the Ukraine people, you think of them as Russians.[/QUOTE]Drama loves Russia and hates Ukraine. There can't be any other explanations for all that gibberish he's spewing around here.

Whether or not he gets paid for loving Russia and hating Ukraine I don't know but, either way, no one is that stupid.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2761160]You newer negotiate before you have a good standpoint, NEWER.

Ukraine is far from destroyed.

Less then 3% of the population if we take the worst case scenario.

Smart ones left the country?

Have you ever been in ukraine, the smart ones are still here, and the ones that left will return many of them.

You lack basic knowledge on the Ukrain people, you think of them as russians.[/QUOTE]Completely false you should always negotiate. You are wrong about just the large number that fled over the last 10-15 years, maybe a small portion returned. Ukraine is screwed either way.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2760993]Just not true. Biden and the Euro's have done nothing to deescalate the war. If they really wanted to win, for starters we could start producing oil, but that makes too much sense.

They are just now starting to talk about making Pres. Z. to negotiate. This should have been going on months ago. Again Ukraine might actually win the war, but end up with nothing. A country destroyed, the Infrastructure is in ruins, a large number of the population will be dead, crippled, and the smart ones left the country never to return. I am sorry this is not winning.[/QUOTE]There was absolutely no reason to start a war, Russia's territorial integrity has never been threatened. They have strategic nukes.

To win we need to move away from reliance on dictators and that means moving to nuclear and renewables. Which BTW most of Europe is doing thanks to the Orcs.

The infra is in ruins because the dirty orcs are targeting it, in direct violation of the Geneva convention, since these are not military targets and affect civilians primarily.

The smart ones are leaving Russia not Ukraine. Meanwhile, the dirty orcs are stealing the children of Ukraine.

Russia WILL lose this war and the way it is going, it seems more and more likely that the actual Federation will break up. What an own goal that will be.

Why would UA come to the negotiating table when the dirty orcs are focusing artillery on civilian infrastructure, will only regroup to attack later, have kidnapped Ukrainian children and forced them into dirty orc foster homes. Not to mention that UA is absolutely kicking RU's ass. With that kind of initiative, and the absolute shambles of a shitshow that is the army of dirty orcs, that also needs lines to shoot their own deserters, why would UA even consider discussions?

UA has been clear with their preconditions, RU should accept them, get the fuck out, and deal with the domestic mess they themselves created.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2761178]Completely false you should always negotiate. You are wrong about just the large number that fled over the last 10-15 years, maybe a small portion returned. Ukraine is screwed either way.[/QUOTE]Most of the people who fled after 24 February will come back.

They don't have any other options, EU are not going to let them Immigrate to EU after the war.

Ukraine will have a Boom of jobs and rising middle class after the war.

When was you last time in Ukraine?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2761178]Completely false you should always negotiate.[/QUOTE]The conundrum is what would you negotiate. Give the tiger a leg or an arm and hope he doesn't come back for more.

Hitler got Austria and Czechoslovakia and that wasn't the end. Do you really believe Putin would be satisfied with some Eastern pieces of the Ukraine.

There's an old axiom "you can't negotiate with crazy" for a reason.

I'm sure you might respond that the Ukraine and other former Soviet republics are not worth the West's support. The big picture is China is watching the West's resolve relative to their own designs on Taiwan.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2761489]Most of the people who fled after 24 February will come back.

Ukraine will have a Boom of jobs and rising middle class after the war.[/QUOTE]Exactly, the allies have committed to some sort of Marshall Plan, there will be a lot of opportunity.

Ukrainians love their country, and if there is good work for them, they would rather be there.

One of the 100 missiles launched by the Russian aggressor today, hit Poland, a NATO member. Two farmers are dead.

As always, Russia has already blamed Ukraine for the attack. Just their usual dumb soundbites, nothing more.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

Perhaps, end-of-the-world interesting. Intentional or not, NATO can't let it slip. Just can't.

Looks like the biggest crooks on the planet are part of the biggest scam ever. Of course! Would not have expected anything less.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2762381]One of the 100 missiles launched by the Russian aggressor today, hit Poland, a NATO member. Two farmers are dead.

As always, Russia has already blamed Ukraine for the attack. Just their usual dumb soundbites, nothing more.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

Perhaps, end-of-the-world interesting. Intentional or not, NATO can't let it slip. Just can't.[/QUOTE]Xman you are one twisted guy. I think you are honestly hoping for this to escalate.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2762381]One of the 100 missiles launched by the Russian aggressor today, hit Poland, a NATO member. Two farmers are dead.

As always, Russia has already blamed Ukraine for the attack. Just their usual dumb soundbites, nothing more.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

Perhaps, end-of-the-world interesting. Intentional or not, NATO can't let it slip. Just can't.[/QUOTE]First, we now know the missile was a Ukrainian stray.

Second, we wouldn't launch a NATO retaliatory attack on Russia even if it was determined to be a Russian stray missile. A severe warning would be more appropriate. If there was anything else that could be embargoed, that would send a message. (Not sure there is anything left to embargo.) Perhaps, there is other forms of support that could be provided to the Ukraine if Russia crosses a line. It's all moot at this point.

[QUOTE=Riina;2762472]Looks like the biggest crooks on the planet are part of the biggest scam ever. Of course! Would not have expected anything less.[/QUOTE]What does this have to do with Kyiv?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2762477]Xman you are one twisted guy. I think you are honestly hoping for this to escalate.[/QUOTE]How many more Ukrainians have to be killed and driven off their homeland, I. E. Palestinianized, before Ukraine can be colonized into a reconstituted Khazaria?

[QUOTE=Riina;2762472]Looks like the biggest crooks on the planet are part of the biggest scam ever. Of course! Would not have expected anything less.[/QUOTE]Laundering money stolen from his ponzi scheme to give to president ziostinklensky. Of course!

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2762636]First, we now know the missile was a Ukrainian stray.

Second, we wouldn't launch a NATO retaliatory attack on Russia even if it was determined to be a Russian stray missile. A severe warning would be more appropriate. If there was anything else that could be embargoed, that would send a message. (Not sure there is anything left to embargo.) Perhaps, there is other forms of support that could be provided to the Ukraine if Russia crosses a line. It's all moot at this point.[/QUOTE]First, you're right. It was a Ukrainian missile that missed its target.

Second, really, crossing the line? Russia has crossed 1,000 and one lines and there have been an avalanche of severe warnings already. If anything, warnings only embolden Putin and create an illusion that no actions will follow. I would hope that if Russia does actually attack a NATO country in any way, shape or form, the block will respond with something more essential than yet another "warning". Not nuclear, but the complete annihilation of their Black Sea fleet would be a good start.

It's remarkable how little the conversation in this subforum has evolved over the past months. People still talking about, or obsessing over, pre-Feb 24th Ukraine and Russia as if either existed anymore. They don't, and they're not coming back.

Nobody who matters cares about past Ukrainian corruption and failings. And nobody who matters cares about what Russia was before. All that matters is now, and Putin tipped the scales against himself when he invaded, for which he's reaping the consequences. As far as peace plans are concerned, Ukraine is calling the shots by virtue of their battlefield successes. If Russia was winning, things might be different, but that's not the case. If the West doesn't have the balls to stand up to Putin, that's not a problem because Ukraine will do it. All the West needs to do is provide support. And the same lack of balls means the West won't cut off support as long as Ukraine keeps up the positive momentum. And the intensity of support by the Baltics, the Nordics, Poland, and others, more than offsets lukewarm sentiment elsewhere in Europe. The present course of things is likely to continue, barring either a game-changing event or an accumulation of tidal factors.

And things like the missile that hit Poland, whether Russian or Ukrainian, are better thought of as ripples or waves, since they're unlikely to have a lasting effect. Tidal forces are things like Ukraine's use of Western weapons to devastate Russian logistics (fuel, ammo, and other supplies). That leveled the playing field and resulted in Russia being unable to support their forces on the west bank of the Dnipro. Another tidal force is the lack of workers in Russia's defense industries caused by a combination of brain-drain emigration and mobilization. One estimate I read put the worker deficit at approx 400,000. Lack of skilled workers means battlefield losses can't be replaced quickly, if at all. And that isn't simply an issue for defense companies. Other industries also suffer from lack of skilled workers and shortages of parts and equipment. That's a slow cancer that probably won't show itself until things like trains and planes start failing.

Looking at the current state of affairs, there's a good probability the war continues to drag on through the winter. Russia's on the defensive and no longer controls the where, when, or tempo of battle. But they do benefit from sheer mass, which means that any degradation will be a lengthy process. Unless, of course, something happens internally that results in more rapid changes. Putin's death, or a coup, are two possible examples.

Whatever happens next, it will be dependent on the present situation, not the past. And anyone who wants to see it coming, even a little bit in advance, should focus on the tidal factors and avoid being distracted by every little ripple or wave.

P.S. It is nice to see that the worst of the Putin butt-boy trolls have fled. I guess even they couldn't keep pretending that failures were somehow victories. How embarrassing for them!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2763089]If the West doesn't have the balls to stand up to Putin, that's not a problem because Ukraine will do it. All the West needs to do is provide support. And the same lack of balls means the West won't cut off support as long as Ukraine keeps up the positive momentum. And the intensity of support by the Baltics, the Nordics, Poland, and others, more than offsets lukewarm sentiment elsewhere in Europe. The present course of things is likely to continue, barring either a game-changing event or an accumulation of tidal factors.

And things like the missile that hit Poland, whether Russian or Ukrainian, are better thought of as ripples or waves, since they're unlikely to have a lasting effect. Tidal forces are things like Ukraine's use of Western weapons to devastate Russian logistics (fuel, ammo, and other supplies). [/QUOTE]Yep, well put!

The true "land of smiles. " You all can have those starfish stick women in Asia. But in any case, some good thoughts from Jmsuttr. And some of us might recall Golfinblow who had Russia taking over Kyiv in one week. Rofl Ahhh the wishful thinking of traitors, whether from the USA or Europe, makes no difference. Wink.

In honor of Ukraine's Armed Forces Day:

[URL]https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3628609-ten-breakthroughs-of-the-ukrainian-armed-forces-that-surprised-the-world.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2763089]It's remarkable how little the conversation in this subforum has evolved over the past months. People still talking about, or obsessing over, pre-Feb 24th Ukraine and Russia as if either existed anymore. They don't, and they're not coming back.

Nobody who matters cares about past Ukrainian corruption and failings. And nobody who matters cares about what Russia was before. All that matters is now, and Putin tipped the scales against himself when he invaded, for which he's reaping the consequences. As far as peace plans are concerned, Ukraine is calling the shots by virtue of their battlefield successes. If Russia was winning, things might be different, but that's not the case. If the West doesn't have the balls to stand up to Putin, that's not a problem because Ukraine will do it. All the West needs to do is provide support.[/QUOTE]My God, how many times are we going to go through this crap? Didn't we win in Iraq? Get Qaddafi killed in Libya? You will have to remind me if things got better in those countries because I do not see that they did. The mighty Soviet army was defeated in Afghanistan once before and that left us the Taliban and Al Queda. How much good did that war really do the USA in the long run?

If you are a Dem, you will no doubt condemn Fox News and Tucker Carlson for giving Glenn Greenwald a microphone but Greenwald is in his own words a liberal Democrat, and this is what he says about this war.

I think in general, Americans should be very skeptical when the government says 'We're going to fight wars on the other side of the world and spend tens of billions of dollars in military aid to spread democracy. ' The US government doesn't actually care about spreading democracy. Many of its closest allies in the world have always been some of the world's most despotic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. All the US government cares about is whether these regimes serve US interests. . If you want to believe the fairy tale that the US government goes to war to spread democracy, then Ukraine is not the place for you. You mentioned the argument that 'Zelensky is in war, he has to curb liberty', but go back to 2021, a year before Russia invaded and you'll find articles where he shut down opposition television stations and shut down opposition political parties (which is) the hallmark of what every tyrant or despot does. And that was true even before Russia invaded.

If the US government was honest. They would get rid of this script that we have to go and defend democracy. That is a fairy tale that tries to get Americans to feel better about the fact that we are involved in many, many countries all over the world. That is not the real reason. The only reason to do it is for 'vital US interests'. The line in Washington for decades was the US has no vital interests in Ukraine. That was Obama's view, that was the bipartisan view. Why did that change? The only reason is because we saw an opportunity to trap Russia inside Ukraine all based on the view that Russia is our enemy (which is) something only Democrats should believe because they think Russia is to blame for the 2016 election and Hillary's defeat. But why would Republicans want confrontation with Russia? What American benefits from that except arms manufacturers?

If you think Russia is a grave enemy of the United States, then it makes sense to try to lure them into a war that they can't win, like we got lured into Afghanistan for 20 years or like we lured the Soviet Union into Afghanistan back in the '70's because it does deplete your enemy. The question is: Why should Russia be seen as our enemy? Both Obama and Trump said there's no reason to see Russia that way. It has one-fifteenth the size of our military budget. It's not threatening American borders. Why are we so obsessed with spending tens of billions of dollars to weaken Russia which we could be using here at home to benefit the lives of American citizens when Russia is not doing anything to the United States unless you are a crazy 'resistance' person who believes they're the reason Donald Trump won. But if you don't believe that, what is the rational for this? There is none.

Yes, anyone who dares asks why we are spending money to buy arms for Ukraine versus caring for our own back home has to be a Putin puppet? The notion that this is a war to prevent democracy is a joke. It is dictator on dictator.

But perhaps the funniest thing I have read about the war was on this site, a bunch of Ukrainians hitting a FKK and spending money like drunken sailors. I guess anyone questioning Ukrainians doing that is a Putin puppet as well.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2770258]My God, how many times are we going to go through this crap?[/QUOTE]Sigh, how many indeed. I too would like to know the answer to this question.

Same old Elvis: all over the place, completely incapable of focusing on the message, every sentence starts a new topic only to never finish anything, long-winded, illogical, boring blah blah blah at its finest.

Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are already dead -- men, women and children -- because a mad tyrant decided to grow his empire by starting a full-scale war of choice in Europe. In 21st fucking century.

But no, for Elvis everything is realfuckingpolitik, and America is always a villain.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2770258]My God, how many times are we going to go through this crap? Didn't we win in Iraq? Get Qaddafi killed in Libya? You will have to remind me if things got better in those countries because I do not see that they did. The mighty Soviet army was defeated in Afghanistan once before and that left us the Taliban and Al Queda. How much good did that war really do the USA in the long run?

If you are a Dem, you will no doubt condemn Fox News and Tucker Carlson for giving Glenn Greenwald a microphone but Greenwald is in his own words a liberal Democrat, and this is what he says about this war.

I think in general, Americans should be very skeptical when the government says 'We're going to fight wars on the other side of the world and spend tens of billions of dollars in military aid to spread democracy. ' The US government doesn't actually care about spreading democracy. Many of its closest allies in the world have always been some of the world's most despotic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. All the US government cares about is whether these regimes serve US interests. . If you want to believe the fairy tale that the US government goes to war to spread democracy, then Ukraine is not the place for you. You mentioned the argument that 'Zelensky is in war, he has to curb liberty', but go back to 2021, a year before Russia invaded and you'll find articles where he shut down opposition television stations and shut down opposition political parties (which is) the hallmark of what every tyrant or despot does. And that was true even before Russia invaded.

If the US government was honest. They would get rid of this script that we have to go and defend democracy. That is a fairy tale that tries to get Americans to feel better about the fact that we are involved in many, many countries all over the world. That is not the real reason. The only reason to do it is for 'vital US interests'. The line in Washington for decades was the US has no vital interests in Ukraine. That was Obama's view, that was the bipartisan view. Why did that change? The only reason is because we saw an opportunity to trap Russia inside Ukraine all based on the view that Russia is our enemy (which is) something only Democrats should believe because they think Russia is to blame for the 2016 election and Hillary's defeat. But why would Republicans want confrontation with Russia? What American benefits from that except arms manufacturers?

If you think Russia is a grave enemy of the United States, then it makes sense to try to lure them into a war that they can't win, like we got lured into Afghanistan for 20 years or like we lured the Soviet Union into Afghanistan back in the '70's because it does deplete your enemy. The question is: Why should Russia be seen as our enemy? Both Obama and Trump said there's no reason to see Russia that way. It has one-fifteenth the size of our military budget. It's not threatening American borders. Why are we so obsessed with spending tens of billions of dollars to weaken Russia which we could be using here at home to benefit the lives of American citizens when Russia is not doing anything to the United States unless you are a crazy 'resistance' person who believes they're the reason Donald Trump won. But if you don't believe that, what is the rational for this? There is none.

Yes, anyone who dares asks why we are spending money to buy arms for Ukraine versus caring for our own back home has to be a Putin puppet? The notion that this is a war to prevent democracy is a joke. It is dictator on dictator.

But perhaps the funniest thing I have read about the war was on this site, a bunch of Ukrainians hitting a FKK and spending money like drunken sailors. I guess anyone questioning Ukrainians doing that is a Putin puppet as well.[/QUOTE]Elvis, your words might be more interesting than actually constructive. There is some truth here, but foreign affairs is rife with various narratives than often come apart with time. At first blush, your post seems to have a US-centric point of view ignoring everything and everyone else. I would agree USA Military intervention and meddling has only brought us heartache and depleted our treasury.

On the other hand, your post ignores the European point-of-view. I think it's fair to say the Europeans have more at stake then the USA Does. Of course, the Europeans are prone to look to the USA And say "You got this. " There have been exceptions and some European nations have done more than others.

As I said before, this is not just about the Ukraine. It is just as important that China sees the USA And the Europeans stepping up together.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2770444]Sigh, how many indeed. I too would like to know the answer to this question.

Same old Elvis: all over the place, completely incapable of focusing on the message, every sentence starts a new topic only to never finish anything, long-winded, illogical, boring blah blah blah at its finest.

Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are already dead -- men, women and children -- because a mad tyrant decided to grow his empire by starting a full-scale war of choice in Europe. In 21st fucking century.

But no, for Elvis everything is realfuckingpolitik, and America is always a villain.[/QUOTE]Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

Yes, Pres. Z, Biden and Europe are all partially to blame for this.

Finally, Putin is the aggressor, but nobody is winning, just senseless killings. Ukraine is screwed either way, so they mights well finish off Russia military, hopefully they will not get nuked in the process. 2 corrupt countries, fighting over joining an even bigger corrupt organization, NATO.

When your country is destroyed, and a majority of the country is long gone, this is not a win!

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2770258]My God, how many times are we going to go through this crap? Didn't we win in Iraq? Get Qaddafi killed in Libya? You will have to remind me if things got better in those countries because I do not see that they did. The mighty Soviet army was defeated in Afghanistan once before and that left us the Taliban and Al Queda. How much good did that war really do the USA in the long run?

If you are a Dem, you will no doubt condemn Fox News and Tucker Carlson for giving Glenn Greenwald a microphone but Greenwald is in his own words a liberal Democrat, and this is what he says about this war.

I think in general, Americans should be very skeptical when the government says 'We're going to fight wars on the other side of the world and spend tens of billions of dollars in military aid to spread democracy. ' The US government doesn't actually care about spreading democracy. Many of its closest allies in the world have always been some of the world's most despotic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. All the US government cares about is whether these regimes serve US interests. . If you want to believe the fairy tale that the US government goes to war to spread democracy, then Ukraine is not the place for you. You mentioned the argument that 'Zelensky is in war, he has to curb liberty', but go back to 2021, a year before Russia invaded and you'll find articles where he shut down opposition television stations and shut down opposition political parties (which is) the hallmark of what every tyrant or despot does. And that was true even before Russia invaded.

If the US government was honest. They would get rid of this script that we have to go and defend democracy. That is a fairy tale that tries to get Americans to feel better about the fact that we are involved in many, many countries all over the world. That is not the real reason. The only reason to do it is for 'vital US interests'. The line in Washington for decades was the US has no vital interests in Ukraine. That was Obama's view, that was the bipartisan view. Why did that change? The only reason is because we saw an opportunity to trap Russia inside Ukraine all based on the view that Russia is our enemy (which is) something only Democrats should believe because they think Russia is to blame for the 2016 election and Hillary's defeat. But why would Republicans want confrontation with Russia? What American benefits from that except arms manufacturers?

If you think Russia is a grave enemy of the United States, then it makes sense to try to lure them into a war that they can't win, like we got lured into Afghanistan for 20 years or like we lured the Soviet Union into Afghanistan back in the '70's because it does deplete your enemy. The question is: Why should Russia be seen as our enemy? Both Obama and Trump said there's no reason to see Russia that way. It has one-fifteenth the size of our military budget. It's not threatening American borders. Why are we so obsessed with spending tens of billions of dollars to weaken Russia which we could be using here at home to benefit the lives of American citizens when Russia is not doing anything to the United States unless you are a crazy 'resistance' person who believes they're the reason Donald Trump won. But if you don't believe that, what is the rational for this? There is none.

Yes, anyone who dares asks why we are spending money to buy arms for Ukraine versus caring for our own back home has to be a Putin puppet? The notion that this is a war to prevent democracy is a joke. It is dictator on dictator.

But perhaps the funniest thing I have read about the war was on this site, a bunch of Ukrainians hitting a FKK and spending money like drunken sailors. I guess anyone questioning Ukrainians doing that is a Putin puppet as well.[/QUOTE]Let's take the 2nd point first, since it's the easiest. With respect to the 'curb liberty' quote, I don't believe I've ever made that statement. So I'm guessing you're mistaking me for someone else, or are otherwise confused. If you have a link to the post you're referencing, please be good enough to share.

As to the other point, everything that might have been true about pre-Feb 24th Ukraine, pre-Feb 24th Russia, or the pre-Feb 24th world in general, has very little relevance as those prior realities and relationships have been overtaken by events.

Whatever Rube Goldberg machinations anyone tries to concoct, Putin invaded Ukraine (seizing territory and killing Ukrainian citizens), not the other way around. Russia, objectively speaking, was not under threat. Neither Ukraine, NATO, the US, or countries like Poland and the Baltics posed any kind of threat to even an inch of Russian territory. Nobody held a gun to Putin's head and it's ludicrous to believe he's so simple-minded as to be easily duped or lured. Putin's actions are his own responsibility, no one else's.

Therefore the simple fact, which no amount of obfuscation can alter, is that Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine is acting in self defense. And, even for those who don't feel Ukraine or Zelensky are the "good guys," the right of self defense is universal. Since Ukraine considers this a matter of survival, they'll continue fighting even without the support of the US and Europe. This isn't a war of choice for them.

The matter of US support, and that of other countries, is a separate thing. Every country gets to decide what they feel is in their own interests. Russia has it's supporters and so does Ukraine. If you don't agree that supporting Ukraine is in America's interests, that's perfectly fine. But thankfully (IMO) that point of view is not prevailing.

Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression, similarly to supporting Taiwan against China's aggressive stance, is more a matter of not wanting our geopolitical adversaries to increase their reach and power. And, while I don't see this as a Republican vs Democrat issue, what I'd say to Tucker and other conservatives is that they should remember the words of their icon, Ronald Reagan, who called the Soviet Union an evil empire. I would assert that today's Russia still has those imperialist urges, and Putin has personally said as much. Ukraine aside, Russia has shown a belligerence that threatens Europe. The fact that Finland and Sweden are turning away from years of neutrality speaks volumes.

Oh, and about the perennial argument that goes: Why are we spending money over there when there are so many needs here? That argument is as old as time and can be applied to anything that one disagrees with. For example, why does the US government give tax deductions to 'well off' individuals when so many children live in poverty and are hungry? That argument could then be used to jack your tax rates to incredibly confiscatory levels. There's no end to the number of variations one can make of that argument, but it's lazy logic.

The argument for or against something needs to be decided on the merits of the issue itself. Every country and individual has competing priorities to deal with. But the fact remains that Ukraine won't stop fighting, even if we pull our support, because that's not an option for them. Withholding support won't end anything, unless you consider a Russian victory and crushing of Ukraine as an acceptable end. If that happened, Eastern Europe would be left in a state of chaos. And, IMO, the likelihood of a full Russia-NATO conflict would exponentially increase. So, while opposing support doesn't necessarily make one a Putin puppet, endorsing support doesn't mean you have to be a Zelensky fan.

But, getting back to my point about the simplicity of the situation, Ukraine is acting in self defense against Russian aggression. All the theories about how we got here don't change the stark realities. Ukraine can't stop as they see this (rightly, IMO) as an existential battle. Countries can choose to support either side, in greater or lesser degree, but that doesn't change the heart of the matter, which centers on Ukraine, not anyone else.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2770593]Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.[/QUOTE]Do you think this was the Russian view a year ago? I think the Russian leaders had perceived themselves as a global threat to be reckoned with.

Perhaps the sharp reality of what their military prowess has become is a good thing for global stability.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2770593]Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago. Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.

Yes, Pres. Z, Biden and Europe are all partially to blame for this.

Finally, Putin is the aggressor, but nobody is winning, just senseless killings. Ukraine is screwed either way, so they mights well finish off Russia military, hopefully they will not get nuked in the process. 2 corrupt countries, fighting over joining an even bigger corrupt organization, NATO.

When your country is destroyed, and a majority of the country is long gone, this is not a win![/QUOTE]So you again want that Ukraine should give up land?

Your wrong in most of the things you write about Ukraine, I wonder if you even ever been here?

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2770593]Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago.[/QUOTE]Fully agree, Russia should have settled with Ukraine. They should have removed all their soldiers and occupying forces, returned Crimea, returned the Ukrainian children they have kidnapped, sent the war criminals for trial.

Once Ukraine have crushed the Russian occupiers and war criminals, it will be a huge win for them, and the imperialists will need to think long and hard before they try to invade and kill on Ukraine's territory again.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2770593]Russia is no longer a threat,(judging from there military performance they may have never been a threat), to America or Europe there military is finished.[/QUOTE]As long as the imperialists are in charge Russia is a threat. When they stop lying to the UN, G20 etc. And begin telling the truth to their own people, there is a chance for reformation. Until then it is a huge threat to world stability and needs to be treated as such.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2770593]Xman this war should have never happened and there should have been a settlement months ago.[/QUOTE]You must come up with a new mantra, it's about time.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2770999]You must come up with a new mantra, it's about time.[/QUOTE]Better idea, let's find a solution and end this mess.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2771071]Better idea, let's find a solution and end this mess.[/QUOTE]The solution is already in progress.

Killing the Russians that are on the Ukrain land and then the rest can Run home.

If a bully came to my home, he would either be killed or captured, I would not suggest he just took little bit of my things and then went away.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2761186]
The infra is in ruins because the dirty orcs are targeting it, in direct violation of the Geneva convention, since these are not military targets and affect civilians primarily.[/QUOTE]The energy infrastructure is a legitimate military target. Why do you think America bombed Serbia's and Iraq's energy infrastructure?

[QUOTE=VinDici;2761186]
Russia WILL lose this war and the way it is going, it seems more and more likely that the actual Federation will break up. What an own goal that will be.[/QUOTE]Man I can't believe some people buy into this horseshit. Russia will win this war, write this down.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2761186]
UA has been clear with their preconditions, RU should accept them, get the fuck out, and deal with the domestic mess they themselves created.[/QUOTE]You live in a fairytale world.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2770835]Fully agree, Russia should have settled with Ukraine. They should have removed all their soldiers and occupying forces, returned Crimea, returned the Ukrainian children they have kidnapped, sent the war criminals for trial.
.[/QUOTE]The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2770731]Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression, similarly to supporting Taiwan against China's aggressive stance, is more a matter of not wanting our geopolitical adversaries to increase their reach and power. And, while I don't see this as a Republican vs Democrat issue, what I'd say to Tucker and other conservatives is that they should remember the words of their icon, Ronald Reagan, who called the Soviet Union an evil empire. I would assert that today's Russia still has those imperialist urges, and Putin has personally said as much. Ukraine aside, Russia has shown a belligerence that threatens Europe. The fact that Finland and Sweden are turning away from years of neutrality speaks volumes.
.......................................

But, getting back to my point about the simplicity of the situation, Ukraine is acting in self defense against Russian aggression. All the theories about how we got here don't change the stark realities. Ukraine can't stop as they see this (rightly, IMO) as an existential battle. Countries can choose to support either side, in greater or lesser degree, but that doesn't change the heart of the matter, which centers on Ukraine, not anyone else.[/QUOTE]The first point is absolutely correct. This isn't just about Russia's military excursion in the Ukraine. If Russian aggression was rewarded, it would send a dangerous message to Putin and even Xi Jinping.

As far as the point that this is an existential battle for the Ukraine, I generally agree. However if the war grinds on through next year, the practical reality is that there might need to be a negotiated resolution which isn't exactly the settlement Ukrainians want. We will understand a lot if there is indeed another attempt at a winter offensive by the Russians. Even if we presume the Ukraine will push back another offensive, we're still left with a irrational Russia. The Ukraine is fighting a destructive war that relies too much on a much larger enemy capitulating and possibly deposing its leader. Perhaps the Russian army is truly running out of resources and support of the Russian people.

Would I like this to end like Czar Nicholas' reign after entering World War I? Hell yeah. Is it worth a long, grinding war? Not sure.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771260]

Man I can't believe some people buy into this horseshit. Russia will win this war, write this down.
[/QUOTE]This war is a crime against humanity, and it is a failure of both sides and believe me, both Russia and Ukraine will be far worse after this war.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771263]The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.[/QUOTE]You are 100% right, but when I listened to this video this morning, I was absolutely disgusted with the conduct of the Russians: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DyC0_K1xI[/URL].

So yeah, Putin has blood on his hands, and he and these Russian pricks are war criminals, but no one better dare tell me that the hands of Boris Johnson, Biden, and Obama are clean. It takes two to tango, and the West is not going to feed me this bullshit about how they were innocent in this war.

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.

[QUOTE=Hestendk;2771253]The solution is already in progress.

Killing the Russians that are on the Ukrain land and then the rest can Run home.

If a bully came to my home, he would either be killed or captured, I would not suggest he just took little bit of my things and then went away.[/QUOTE]Oh well, you're forgetting that Ukraine isn't Drama's home. Nothing is easier than giving away the lands that don't belong to you.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771263]The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.[/QUOTE]At first, I was pretty sure we're dealing with yet another Kremlyn bot based on the same regurgitating fascist propaganda P'utin's puke we've become so familiar with in the recent months on this forum. But no, you seem to be a legit monger, which just confirms that there are no geographical constrains for "useful idiots. " This, by the way, is not an insult, but rather a technical KGB / FSB term that defines people like you. Quite a precise definition, I'd say.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2771301]
There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.[/QUOTE]Ziolensky is closing down the Orthodox Church, actually saying it "has no place in the Ukrainian soul"!

So, No one's "winning"?

At Elvis 2008: I was under impression you were capable of exercising a better judgement and not listen to talking head idiots like zeihan.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2771301]This war is a crime against humanity, and it is a failure of both sides and believe me, both Russia and Ukraine will be far worse after this war.

You are 100% right, but when I listened to this video this morning, I was absolutely disgusted with the conduct of the Russians: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DyC0_K1xI[/URL].

So yeah, Putin has blood on his hands, and he and these Russian pricks are war criminals, but no one better dare tell me that the hands of Boris Johnson, Biden, and Obama are clean. It takes two to tango, and the West is not going to feed me this bullshit about how they were innocent in this war.

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.[/QUOTE]Exactly, but guys like Pauline and XMan can not comprehend this. How exactly are we going to prosecute Putin, unless we are willing to invade Russia absolutely nothing will happen. Unless the people revolt against Putin and if that was going to happen, it would happened months ago. We are stuck with Putin, Pres. Z and Biden. Elvis is correct, there are many to blame for this war besides Putin. The funny thing is they almost nothing to end it, go figure, why win a war? Let it drag on forever.

Both Ukraine and Russia are screwed either way. As I have been saying Ukraine, lose either way, but that is what Ukraine does best beside corruption, they lose.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2771301]This war is a crime against humanity, and it is a failure of both sides and believe me, both Russia and Ukraine will be far worse after this war.

You are 100% right, but when I listened to this video this morning, I was absolutely disgusted with the conduct of the Russians: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DyC0_K1xI[/URL].

So yeah, Putin has blood on his hands, and he and these Russian pricks are war criminals, but no one better dare tell me that the hands of Boris Johnson, Biden, and Obama are clean. It takes two to tango, and the West is not going to feed me this bullshit about how they were innocent in this war.

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.[/QUOTE]I am by no means condoning the conduct of the Russian military, it is brutal, but hey, war is hell. But the Ukrainians are the same if not worse. The western media doesn't talk about it. Yes, Putin has blood on his hands but I still think the West forced his hand to act. And Biden and Johnson have just as much blood on their hands. Lloyd Austin said months ago that the aim was to make sure Russia is not able to do what it do to Ukraine again. He didn't say anything about Ukraine winning. They want to make Russia bleed. The Ukrainian people are cannon fodder. This is an enormous tragedy for the Ukrainian people and could have easily been avoided.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2771323]Oh well, you're forgetting that Ukraine isn't Drama's home. Nothing is easier than giving away the lands that don't belong to you.

At first, I was pretty sure we're dealing with yet another Kremlyn bot based on the same regurgitating fascist propaganda P'utin's puke we've become so familiar with in the recent months on this forum. But no, you seem to be a legit monger, which just confirms that there are no geographical constrains for "useful idiots. " This, by the way, is not an insult, but rather a technical KGB / FSB term that defines people like you. Quite a precise definition, I'd say.[/QUOTE]Instead of trying to insult me and failing at it, try to debate me in a respectful manner.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771414]Instead of trying to insult me and failing at it, try to debate me in a respectful manner.[/QUOTE]Debating a P'utin's disciple in a respectful manner would be a hell of a challenge I'm afraid. You're too extreme even for Elvis, and that's quite something, really.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771413]I am by no means condoning the conduct of the Russian military, it is brutal, but hey, war is hell. But the Ukrainians are the same if not worse. The western media doesn't talk about it. Yes, Putin has blood on his hands but I still think the West forced his hand to act. And Biden and Johnson have just as much blood on their hands. Lloyd Austin said months ago that the aim was to make sure Russia is not able to do what it do to Ukraine again. He didn't say anything about Ukraine winning. They want to make Russia bleed. The Ukrainian people are cannon fodder. This is an enormous tragedy for the Ukrainian people and could have easily been avoided.[/QUOTE]The West did not force Putin to act. Putin saw an opportunity where he thought there was weakness. He is a criminal, stealing stuff is how criminals think. There was no Coup in Ukraine. Yanukovich broke his promises, there were protests, Yanukovich committed illegal acts on the advice of Putin. The military refused his illegal orders and he ran.

[QUOTE=GDreams;2771467]The West did not force Putin to act. Putin saw an opportunity where he thought there was weakness. He is a criminal, stealing stuff is how criminals think. There was no Coup in Ukraine. Yanukovich broke his promises, there were protests, Yanukovich committed illegal acts on the advice of Putin. The military refused his illegal orders and he ran.[/QUOTE]All Elensky had to do was to implement the Minsk accords which he didn't. Did you catch what Angela Merkel said the other day? There was never any seriousness to implement the Minsk accords, they just wanted to buy Ukraine time. What you're seeing now and in the near future will be the death of Ukraine as a state. I blame America and the West, and of course that corrupt puppet Elensky and the Bandera clan surrounding him.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771413]I am by no means condoning the conduct of the Russian military, it is brutal, but hey, war is hell. But the Ukrainians are the same if not worse. The western media doesn't talk about it. Yes, Putin has blood on his hands but I still think the West forced his hand to act. And Biden and Johnson have just as much blood on their hands. Lloyd Austin said months ago that the aim was to make sure Russia is not able to do what it do to Ukraine again. He didn't say anything about Ukraine winning. They want to make Russia bleed. The Ukrainian people are cannon fodder. This is an enormous tragedy for the Ukrainian people and could have easily been avoided.[/QUOTE]Totally agree with you Blood Red.

[QUOTE=Questner;2771381]At Elvis 2008: I was under impression you were capable of exercising a better judgement and not listen to talking head idiots like zeihan.[/QUOTE]That "idiot" actually predicted this war would happen.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771260]Man I can't believe some people buy into this horseshit. Russia will win this war, write this down.

You live in a fairytale world.[/QUOTE]Do you have a copy of what Putin wrote down before Feb 24th? Do you have copies of all those who wrote down that Russia would win handily and quickly? It's ok if your copies are in Cyrillic or other non-English scripts, we can use Google Translate.

Just thought it would be a useful exercise to gather all the failed predictions in one spot.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771263]The ignorance here is staggering! This war did NOT start on Feb 24,2022. It started in 2014 when America helped stage the coup. Zelensky was ready to accept Russian sovereignty over Crimea, and part of the Donbas and neutrality back in March until the you. S and Britain told him not to because they wanted to make Russia bleed. Sure, Russia is bleeding but Ukraine will become a land locked country and a rump state the longer this goes on.[/QUOTE]For the sake of argument, let's assume all your assertions are true. Whatever wrongs he felt needed to be corrected, Putin made the specific choice to use force. Once he did that, all other doors slammed shut. Any concessions Ukraine might have considered early in the war evaporated once it was clear the West would be supporting Ukraine and especially once Russia experienced setbacks like the retreat from near Kyiv. Nobody negotiates with an enemy who is failing on the battlefield. Putin's problem is that he miscalculated with respect to the resistance he would encounter from both Ukraine and beyond. He's now reaping the results of that miscalculation.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2771269]The first point is absolutely correct. This isn't just about Russia's military excursion in the Ukraine. If Russian aggression was rewarded, it would send a dangerous message to Putin and even Xi Jinping.

As far as the point that this is an existential battle for the Ukraine, I generally agree. However if the war grinds on through next year, the practical reality is that there might need to be a negotiated resolution which isn't exactly the settlement Ukrainians want. We will understand a lot if there is indeed another attempt at a winter offensive by the Russians. Even if we presume the Ukraine will push back another offensive, we're still left with a irrational Russia. The Ukraine is fighting a destructive war that relies too much on a much larger enemy capitulating and possibly deposing its leader. Perhaps the Russian army is truly running out of resources and support of the Russian people.

Would I like this to end like Czar Nicholas' reign after entering World War I? Hell yeah. Is it worth a long, grinding war? Not sure.[/QUOTE]As usual, I'm reluctant to play the prediction game. But, following along the "existential battle" theme, it's possible that the more grinding the war gets the more Ukrainians will be resolved to continue. It's paradoxical, I know, but think of it as kind of a Battle of Britain scenario. In other words, no matter how tough things get, they won't change their minds unless there's an acceptable alternative. And, post-2014 and Crimea, it's hard to imagine any territorial concession that won't be seen as merely an opportunity for Russia to re-arm and attack again in the future.

Again, too many variables in play to see very far ahead. Right now, as you correctly point out, the next phase of play is making it through the winter.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2771301]This war is a crime against humanity, and it is a failure of both sides and believe me, both Russia and Ukraine will be far worse after this war.

You are 100% right, but when I listened to this video this morning, I was absolutely disgusted with the conduct of the Russians: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_DyC0_K1xI[/URL].

So yeah, Putin has blood on his hands, and he and these Russian pricks are war criminals, but no one better dare tell me that the hands of Boris Johnson, Biden, and Obama are clean. It takes two to tango, and the West is not going to feed me this bullshit about how they were innocent in this war.

There have been no winners in this war. How in the world do you look at this war and say anyone is "winning"? Everyone is losing.[/QUOTE]Ukraine can't withdraw since they're fighting on home soil. And, if they unilaterally stop fighting, most of the country will end up looking like Bakhmut or Mariupol.

But Russia can stop whenever it chooses to. And yes, it "Takes Two to Tango," but it only takes one to start a fight. One can decline an invitation to dance, but declining to defend yourself when attacked is an invitation to an early grave.

War is a crime against humanity: Check.

Bad guys (arguably) on both sides: Check.

No winners: Check.

Everyone is losing: Check.

Possible Solution 1: Russia willingly stops fighting.

Possible Solution 2: Russia unwillingly stops fighting.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2771395]Exactly, but guys like Pauline and XMan can not comprehend this. How exactly are we going to prosecute Putin, unless we are willing to invade Russia absolutely nothing will happen. Unless the people revolt against Putin and if that was going to happen, it would happened months ago. We are stuck with Putin, Pres. Z and Biden. Elvis is correct, there are many to blame for this war besides Putin. The funny thing is they almost nothing to end it, go figure, why win a war? Let it drag on forever.

Both Ukraine and Russia are screwed either way. As I have been saying Ukraine, lose either way, but that is what Ukraine does best beside corruption, they lose.[/QUOTE]All the pre-invasion geopolitical circumstances were in existence long before February 24th. None of then sprang up overnight. Putin, as the leader of a country boasting of (everyone thought) a powerful military and nuclear arsenal, had a wide variety of cards he could have played. And, diplomatically speaking, he had a number of key allies and supporting countries. Let's take one supposed provocation as an example, the possibility that Ukraine might join NATO. Pre-Feb 24th, there were plenty of NATO members who would have vetoed any such proposal, some because they didn't want to provoke Russia, others because they thought Ukraine was unsuitable, and others for different reasons. Now, however, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Ukraine in NATO in the near-to-midterm future.

All the geopolitical influence and all the status Russia had prior to the invasion has now been flushed down the toilet. And, adding insult to injury, Russia's military has been exposed as a corrupt paper tiger.

Putin didn't invade because he was forced and it's hilarious to hear some people, those who say how strong and savvy he is, simultaneously try to say that he was duped or lured or forced. Anyone who says that is essentially denying Putin's personal agency and turning him into a puppet, with strings being pulled by others. What nonsense! He did it because he believed his own internal propaganda and thought it was an opportune time to get a quick and decisive victory. Unfortunately, all his FSB butt-boys were telling him that Ukraine was ripe for the picking, not because it was true, but because it was what the FSB chain of command wanted to pass up the line. Nobody in that system wants to be the bearer of bad (or realistic) news.

And, about ending the war, I repeat my earlier suggestions for a simple solution. 1. Russia willingly stops fighting. 2. Russia unwillingly stops fighting. The issue of prosecuting Putin is a post-war matter that will be dealt with, or not, when the time comes. Nobody is talking about invading Russia, so that's a red herring. The proposed solutions, either 1 or 2, can happen without invasion.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771547]All Elensky had to do was to implement the Minsk accords which he didn't. Did you catch what Angela Merkel said the other day? There was never any seriousness to implement the Minsk accords, they just wanted to buy Ukraine time. What you're seeing now and in the near future will be the death of Ukraine as a state. I blame America and the West, and of course that corrupt puppet Elensky and the Bandera clan surrounding him.[/QUOTE]The idea that, after the passage of three years, some critical event happened that precipitated the Feb-24th invasion, giving Putin no choice, is ludicrous on its face. Countries have disputes all the time but they rarely choose war. As a major geopolitical player, he had many cards he could have played, but he explicitly chose military action.

Oh, and Angela Merkel has been rapidly losing face, from both sides of the issue. I don't see many quotes or references about her other than as an example of someone for whom the substance didn't match the image. And, whenever she's discussed, the reactions generally range from disappointment to anger.

Also, by any metric you use to judge Ukraine (fascism, Nazism, corruption, totalitarianism, etc.), Russia's scores will be off the charts. It's quite amusing to read people's criticism of Ukraine while they make moon-eyes at the Russian kleptocracy. But I guess any Russian citizen who doesn't like the system can just leave, right? Except, that if they're a prominent dissident, they'd be wise to avoid windows on high floors, and politely refuse any offer of polonium-laced tea.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771547]All Elensky had to do was to implement the Minsk accords which he didn't. Did you catch what Angela Merkel said the other day? There was never any seriousness to implement the Minsk accords, they just wanted to buy Ukraine time. What you're seeing now and in the near future will be the death of Ukraine as a state. I blame America and the West, and of course that corrupt puppet Elensky and the Bandera clan surrounding him.[/QUOTE]All Putin had to do was not invade Ukraine in 2014. I blame Putin and his stooge Yanukovich and of course all the corrupt oligachs who support hime.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2771641]Do you have a copy of what Putin wrote down before Feb 24th? Do you have copies of all those who wrote down that Russia would win handily and quickly? It's ok if your copies are in Cyrillic or other non-English scripts, we can use Google Translate.

Just thought it would be a useful exercise to gather all the failed predictions in one spot.[/QUOTE]What you fail to understand is that Putin didn't declare a full war on Ukraine on Feb 24,2022. That is why it was called a Special Military Operation. It was a limited operation with set goals with limited manpower. Putin didn't set out to destroy Ukraine, because he knew these are fellow Orthodox Slavs. Why do you think he didn't touch the Ukrainian critical infrastructure until the terrorist attack on the Crimea bridge? All that changed when the West forced Elensky to not negotiate, like he was ready to do in March 2022. Read his interviews from back then, you will know that he was ready to discuss neutrality, Crimea under Russia and the borders for the Donbass. Then Boris Johnson went to Kiev and hijacked it, that's the real tragedy. Plus, Elensky is corrupt, he's getting richer everyday with billions. It's the ordinary Ukrainian people that are suffering.

Now the gloves are off, it's a full scale war. Read what Zaluzhny said in the interview to the economist the other day. He clearly sees the writing on the wall. Unless NATO intervenes militarily, which they won't because as I said, the aim is to make Russia bleed for as long as possible, not for Ukraine to win.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2771646]For the sake of argument, let's assume all your assertions are true. Whatever wrongs he felt needed to be corrected, Putin made the specific choice to use force. Once he did that, all other doors slammed shut. Any concessions Ukraine might have considered early in the war evaporated once it was clear the West would be supporting Ukraine and especially once Russia experienced setbacks like the retreat from near Kyiv. Nobody negotiates with an enemy who is failing on the battlefield. Putin's problem is that he miscalculated with respect to the resistance he would encounter from both Ukraine and beyond. He's now reaping the results of that miscalculation.[/QUOTE]Ukraine was preparing for war, read what Angela Merkel said the other day. They were never serious about implementing the Minsk accords. Ukraine would have acted militarily in my opinion, Putin said this himself, he just pre-empted it. And which of my assertions are incorrect? The conflict really started in 2014. Minsk was an attempt to find a solution, that didn't happen. NATO was arming Ukraine to the teeth since 2014. Also, every country has its red lines. Remember the Cubain missile crisis in 1962? That was an American red line. Ukraine joining NATO (something which the cunts in the West knew was not going to happen but they kept talking about it to antagonize Russia) is / was a Russian red line.

Yes, Putin did miscalculate, see my earlier post. He thought the special military operation would be enough to get Ukraine to negotiate. And Russia is failing on the battlefield? Keep believing that fiction the western media is propagating. Yes, Russia RETREATED TACTICALLY from Kherson and Kharkov, but their army is intact. The mobilization went well, read the interview in the Economist that Zaluzhny gave. They have over 200 K reserves ready and armed to join the fight. Let's see what happens in the next 2 to 3 months. I am not a war monger. This war is a terrible tragedy for the Ukrainian people and didn't need to happen. You can clearly see who is benefiting from the war. The American military complex, and the corrupt lot in Kiev that is bagging billions.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2771661]Ukraine can't withdraw since they're fighting on home soil. And, if they unilaterally stop fighting, most of the country will end up looking like Bakhmut or Mariupol.

But Russia can stop whenever it chooses to. And yes, it "Takes Two to Tango," but it only takes one to start a fight. One can decline an invitation to dance, but declining to defend yourself when attacked is an invitation to an early grave.

War is a crime against humanity: Check.

Bad guys (arguably) on both sides: Check.

No winners: Check.

Everyone is losing: Check.

Possible Solution 1: Russia willingly stops fighting.

Possible Solution 2: Russia unwillingly stops fighting.[/QUOTE]Your solution is unrealistic I'm afraid.

This will be resolved (temporarily of course and then turn into a frozen conflict of sorts) on the battlefield with the defeat of Ukraine. Write this down.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771741]What you fail to understand is that Putin didn't declare a full war on Ukraine on Feb 24,2022. That is why it was called a Special Military Operation. It was a limited operation with set goals with limited manpower. Putin didn't set out to destroy Ukraine, because he knew these are fellow Orthodox Slavs. Why do you think he didn't touch the Ukrainian critical infrastructure until the terrorist attack on the Crimea bridge? All that changed when the West forced Elensky to not negotiate, like he was ready to do in March 2022. Read his interviews from back then, you will know that he was ready to discuss neutrality, Crimea under Russia and the borders for the Donbass. Then Boris Johnson went to Kiev and hijacked it, that's the real tragedy. Plus, Elensky is corrupt, he's getting richer everyday with billions. It's the ordinary Ukrainian people that are suffering.

Now the gloves are off, it's a full scale war. Read what Zaluzhny said in the interview to the economist the other day. He clearly sees the writing on the wall. Unless NATO intervenes militarily, which they won't because as I said, the aim is to make Russia bleed for as long as possible, not for Ukraine to win.[/QUOTE]If your neighbor, with whom you've had long-standing disputes, knocks down your fence, drives onto your lawn, and starts shooting your family members, do you really give a fuck what they call it? Whether Putin's SMO bullshit verbiage was meant for internal consumption, or to try to give it a false veneer of legitimacy, is completely irrelevant. An invasion by hostile foreign forces, crossing internationally recognized borders, is an act of war. You can probably count the people who try to deny that fact on the fingers of one hand. It's pretty hard to take anything you say seriously when you can't even bring yourself to admit the blindingly obvious.

And it's similarly obvious that the corruption allegation can point both ways. Putin's gargantuan personal palace on the Black Sea didn't get built on a civil servant's salary, did it? You may not have noticed, but I've never specifically defended Zelensky. Whether he's a bad guy or not isn't a justification for invasion. If it were, then there's an even stronger case for taking out Putin, who has elevated corruption and kleptocratic rule to stratospheric levels.

I would assert that it's been full scale war for Ukraine since Day One. They haven't been fooled by Putin's BS verbal judo. And I'm also not hung up on the niceties of what's a legitimate military target and what isn't. I'm not surprised Putin is bombing infrastructure, and nobody should have been surprised by the Kerch Bridge strike. That bridge, and more specifically the rail line across it, was the primary conduit of military equipment into Crimea and from there into Kherson. It was always a target, appropriately so. The only surprise was that Ukraine was able to be so effective in disabling it. Kudos to them as it was probably the precipitating factor in Russia's withdrawal from the west bank of the Dnipro.

But you persist in trying to complicate the simple. Russia invaded, full stop. You can't credibly claim that Putin is a strong and savvy leader if you simultaneously assert that he was duped, or lured, or otherwise forced. He has always done EXACTLY what he wanted, and he wanted to invade Ukraine.

Does it make a shred of difference that Putin is corrupt and a bad guy? Nope. Does it make a shred of difference if Zelensky (per your assertion) is corrupt and a bad guy? Nope. The war (that's W-A-R) continues. Also, if Zelensky dropped dead or was removed, Ukraine would continue to defend itself. If Putin dies or is replaced, it's unclear what his successor would do. I'm not making any prediction but rather an observation that people who believe they're fighting for their homes, and very lives, have a different motivation than those who are fighting on foreign soil (and have the option of going home).

You might be surprised to hear that I actually agree with you about the point of NATO and the West giving less than full support. Maybe it's to make Russia bleed as long as possible, or maybe it's to ensure that Ukraine doesn't win too quickly and comprehensively, or maybe there are other motivations. Ukraine would certainly like more weapons like ATACMS, F-16's, modern tanks, etc. But those haven't been forthcoming.

But the salient point is that every external source of influence and support can only affect things so much. For example, it seems that Xi Xingping has influenced Putin to tone down his nuclear rhetoric, but that's not an absolute guarantee because Putin is going to do whatever he decides is best. Similarly, any influence on Zelensky to either make concessions, or refrain from making them, will not prevent him from making his own decision. In fact, I would argue that Zelensky is more constrained by Ukrainian public opinion than anything else. If he was pushed to accept concessions, while most of his people were vehemently against it, I think he'd be promptly replaced.

So, no matter how loud the noise and BS gets, and no matter how hard people try to put the focus on tangential, rather than central issues, we're still left with a full scale war. I won't make any predictions, as there are too many known and unknown variables at play. You apparently lean toward the Russian position, while I come down squarely in favor of Ukraine. But who really cares since all that matters is what happens on the battlefield? To this point, Russia's performance has been woeful. Could that change? Possibly, although I wouldn't put long odds on that happening. The next few months will be an important phase of the war. And, of the two sides, it's been the Ukrainian armed forces who have, at least so far, made the bolder and more effective moves. Let's see who does the better job of dealing with General Winter.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771743]Ukraine was preparing for war, read what Angela Merkel said the other day. They were never serious about implementing the Minsk accords. Ukraine would have acted militarily in my opinion, Putin said this himself, he just pre-empted it. And which of my assertions are incorrect? The conflict really started in 2014. Minsk was an attempt to find a solution, that didn't happen. NATO was arming Ukraine to the teeth since 2014. Also, every country has its red lines. Remember the Cubain missile crisis in 1962? That was an American red line. Ukraine joining NATO (something which the cunts in the West knew was not going to happen but they kept talking about it to antagonize Russia) is / was a Russian red line.

Yes, Putin did miscalculate, see my earlier post. He thought the special military operation would be enough to get Ukraine to negotiate. And Russia is failing on the battlefield? Keep believing that fiction the western media is propagating. Yes, Russia RETREATED TACTICALLY from Kherson and Kharkov, but their army is intact. The mobilization went well, read the interview in the Economist that Zaluzhny gave. They have over 200 K reserves ready and armed to join the fight. Let's see what happens in the next 2 to 3 months. I am not a war monger. This war is a terrible tragedy for the Ukrainian people and didn't need to happen. You can clearly see who is benefiting from the war. The American military complex, and the corrupt lot in Kiev that is bagging billions.[/QUOTE]Who gives a shit about what Merkel says? She's been thoroughly deflated and nobody is paying attention. She's yesterday's news, as are the Minsk Accords and the Budapest Memoranda, and trying to pretend otherwise is another exercise in obfuscation. Nobody is seriously looking at the past for answers to the current situation. To the extent the past is referenced, it's usually as a lame attempt to justify the position of one side or the other. This war is dependent on battlefield outcomes and those are yet to be fully seen.

Oh yes, the famous Russian tactical retreat, or is it a Goodwill gesture? I get them mixed up since Putin seems to use them interchangeably whenever his forces are getting fucked over. And, as far as I'm concerned, if Putin was truly so weak-minded as to be provoked into an unwise attack, that's just fine as it gives the West a chance to bleed him dry. A strong, smart, and savvy leader wouldn't have taken such obvious bait. So, whether he's smart or stupid, the practical results are the same. By any objective measure, militarily, diplomatically, geopolitically, or other, Russia is greatly diminished as compared to its pre-Feb 24th state. And, looking forward, it's hard to see how Russia emerges from this without long-lasting damage. Hell, just the millions who have left to avoid conscription constitute a brain-drain of monumental proportions. Hey North Korea, hold my vodka!

As far as info that comes out of interviews, it's ridiculous to offer any kind of analysis without taking the interviewees agenda into account. It's absolutely in Zaluzhny's interest to talk up the threat. Whether it's that Russia is mobilizing for another big offensive or that Belarus is getting ready to join the war, Ukraine benefits by amplifying those points. Not only does it help keep the attention level high but it's also useful in the ongoing efforts to get more weapons and financial support.

This war isn't going to be determined by what's on the pages of The Economist, or any other publication. In fact, since there are ongoing propaganda efforts from BOTH sides, I would argue such accounts should be either completely ignored, or viewed with extreme skepticism, unless and until they're confirmed by facts on the ground.

Also, since you're so fond of accusing Kyiv of corruption, what kind of a blatant hypocrite you must be to repeatedly refuse to acknowledge what is arguably the most corrupt group that has ever existed, namely Putin and his Kremlin cronies. Your finger-pointing is so obviously biased and contorted that you end up sticking it in your own eye. It's so transparent that it's actually pretty funny.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771744]Your solution is unrealistic I'm afraid.

This will be resolved (temporarily of course and then turn into a frozen conflict of sorts) on the battlefield with the defeat of Ukraine. Write this down.[/QUOTE]As I've said before, I wish I had a dollar for every Ukraine-Russia prediction that's fallen flat on its face. Write this down.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2771551]That "idiot" actually predicted this war would happen.[/QUOTE]Given the lamentable situation at the US border and separation of the families, would you believe anyone who claims the border agents set up torture chambers to interrogate children? Of course, not. The sad reality is enough unfortunate children have become orphans and some both orphans and disabled and found foster families or been adopted during this conflict. We know of the majority of people on the payroll, their names, phone numbers, and addresses in Kiev who work daily in disinformation effort.

The war was predictable since about February 2008 and you can read it in a US embassy in Moscow cable communication. Myself I clearly knew it in 2015 that the red lines had been crossed. I'm a local and a veteran.

The other mistake is to think that there is some magic weapon or system that might turn the scales of the conflict. I won't go into details of the Patriot (angles, speeds, altitudes etc), but Ukrainians ask for 31 divisions. They just don't exist and won't help them, and not only because air defense is a system.

To this date hundreds of Americans already died there. I don't post pictures of bodies, coffins and remains out of respect. We don't fight the dead. But I can tell you that we are at the highest risk since June 1982 - March 1983 period.

[QUOTE=Questner;2771988]We know of the majority of people on the payroll, their names, phone numbers, and addresses in Kiev who work daily in disinformation effort.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a threat. Quite dumbfounding to me given the forum where it's issued. Why tell us?

On the other hand, sounds like bullshit too, so whatever.

[QUOTE=Questner;2771988]The war was predictable since about February 2008 and you can read it in a US embassy in Moscow cable communication. Myself I clearly knew it in 2015 that the red lines had been crossed. I'm a local and a veteran.[/QUOTE]1. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

2. I presume an illegal annexation of Crimea was one of these lines.

[QUOTE=Questner;2771988]The other mistake is to think that there is some magic weapon or system that might turn the scales of the conflict. I won't go into details of the Patriot (angles, speeds, altitudes etc), but Ukrainians ask for 31 divisions. They just don't exist and won't help them, and not only because air defense is a system.[/QUOTE]1. That's strange coming from a "local and a veteran. " You people seem to whine incessantly about HIMARS. To the point of claiming that you're fighting against the whole Nato and the "collective West. ".

2. Where does that ridiculous request for 31 "divisions" come from? A link would be nice.

3. That's some cryptic gibberish. Other air defense systems are helping them just fine, why not Patriot?

[QUOTE=Questner;2771988]To this date hundreds of Americans already died there. I don't post pictures of bodies, coffins and remains out of respect. We don't fight the dead. But I can tell you that we are at the highest risk since June 1982 - March 1983 period.[/QUOTE]There are 6 Americans who are known to have died fighting for Ukraine, but nice try anyway.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771741]What you fail to understand is that Putin didn't declare a full war on Ukraine on Feb 24,2022.[/QUOTE]P'utin's word play doesn't mean shit. Kyiv was supposed to be taken within 3 days, Ukraine in whole (Russian troops on the Polish border) by mid August. Before the invasion, Kadyrov had been tasked with assassination of Zelensky and his team.

If that's not a full-blown war, then you're a ballerina.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771743]Ukraine was preparing for war, read what Angela Merkel said the other day.[/QUOTE]I did read that clumsy horseshit that Frau Merkel -- the main P'utin's enabler in the world -- said in a futile attempt to undo the damage to her legacy.

Ain't going to help her, the damage is done.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2771743]This war is a terrible tragedy for the Ukrainian people and didn't need to happen. You can clearly see who is benefiting from the war. The American military complex, and the corrupt lot in Kiev that is bagging billions.[/QUOTE]I agree. This is Julian Assange's most famous quote, and while he was talking about Afghanistan a decade ago, it still applies to Ukraine today.

"The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war".

[URL]https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1427929346262642688?lang=en[/URL]

The scam doesn't change since it works so well. Only the victims do. Why do you think they've been so aggressive pursuing him?

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2771661]Ukraine can't withdraw since they're fighting on home soil. And, if they unilaterally stop fighting, most of the country will end up looking like Bakhmut or Mariupol.

.[/QUOTE]What the Ukrainians can 'withdraw' is their zionazi government. Now that ziolensky has revealed his true colors in attacking the Orthodox Church it's obvious to all.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2771655].........And, post-2014 and Crimea, it's hard to imagine any territorial concession that won't be seen as merely an opportunity for Russia to re-arm and attack again in the future.

Again, too many variables in play to see very far ahead. Right now, as you correctly point out, the next phase of play is making it through the winter.[/QUOTE]A relatively peaceful period and then another Russian attack in the future is a concern in my mind.

Territorial concession or no territorial concession what kind of security assurances will the Ukraine have in a post-war environment. Would the West arm the Ukraine to the teeth so that it would be like poisonous prey to borrow a reference from nature? Or would NATO step up and place the Ukraine under the NATO security umbrella?

Obviously, time will work to the benefit of the Ukraine. Russian nationalists die off. Putin dies or is deposed. Russians lose interest in controlling the Ukraine. There just will be a very tense period in the immediate aftermath. It's hard to see otherwise.

[QUOTE=Jmioffe;2772084]

"The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war".

The scam doesn't change since it works so well. Only the victims do. Why do you think they've been so aggressive pursuing him?[/QUOTE]The Twitter files expose has been jaw dropping and shows our government engaged in horrific censorship. It also shows how Twitter tried to influence the USA into supporting Ukraine in this war. Look at this tweet: [URL]https://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1602034767578673152/photo/1[/URL].

Matt Taibbi first alerted me to this foreign aid scam a decade or so ago. You petition for foreign aid to a country, get it billions, and those who lobbied for it are given millions by the country which got the money. This is EXACTLY what the Bidens did in Ukraine, and to be fair, I am sure both parties have done this.

With Ukrainegate, I saw how much Democratic party NGOs were actually running Ukraine. You think those NGOs are hurting right now with all that cash flowing in?

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2772111]A relatively peaceful period and then another Russian attack in the future is a concern in my mind.

Territorial concession or no territorial concession what kind of security assurances will the Ukraine have in a post-war environment. Would the West arm the Ukraine to the teeth so that it would be like poisonous prey to borrow a reference from nature? Or would NATO step up and place the Ukraine under the NATO security umbrella?

Obviously, time will work to the benefit of the Ukraine. Russian nationalists die off. Russians lose interest in controlling the Ukraine. There just will be a very tense period in the immediate aftermath. It's hard to see otherwise.[/QUOTE]Wyatt, you raise a good point. What is the end game? All these dolts talking about winning cannot envision what that means. If Ukraine does take back Eastern Ukraine where so many Russians reside, do you think that those Russians will be on equal footing with the Ukrainian citizens? I don't. I think there will be treated like the Palestinians are. And the same goes for the Ukrainians there if Russia keeps that territory.

I have a feeling that wherever the lines are drawn there is also going to have to be some kind of DMZ zone.

Then there is the point about not trusting Putin. Well, we promised we would not expand NATO eastward after the USSR fell, and we went back on our word. And now Ukraine is going to be in NATO?

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2772171]Matt Taibbi first alerted me to this foreign aid scam a decade or so ago. You petition for foreign aid to a country, get it billions, and those who lobbied for it are given millions by the country which got the money. This is EXACTLY what the Bidens did in Ukraine, and to be fair, I am sure both parties have done this.

With Ukrainegate, I saw how much Democratic party NGOs were actually running Ukraine. You think those NGOs are hurting right now with all that cash flowing in?[/QUOTE]This occurs all over the world with USA Foreign aid. Wherever you find USA Aid, you will find well-educated people in smart suits who don't have any discernible skill other than doling out the cash. I suppose their skill is networking and getting into these NGOs.

This is the problem with a massive Federal bureaucracy and seemingly endless amount of borrowing.

I don't know if it is a reason to not support the Ukraine though. Billions and billions have been flowing into Eastern Europe since the fall of the Iron Curtain and the Soviet Union.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2772175]Wyatt, you raise a good point. What is the end game? All these dolts talking about winning cannot envision what that means. If Ukraine does take back Eastern Ukraine where so many Russians reside, do you think that those Russians will be on equal footing with the Ukrainian citizens? I don't. I think there will be treated like the Palestinians are. And the same goes for the Ukrainians there if Russia keeps that territory.

I have a feeling that wherever the lines are drawn there is also going to have to be some kind of DMZ zone.

Then there is the point about not trusting Putin. Well, we promised we would not expand NATO eastward after the USSR fell, and we went back on our word. And now Ukraine is going to be in NATO?[/QUOTE]Certain things are inevitable in conflict and war. I would say the Russian-Ukrainian conflict was inevitable going back to Putin's installation in 1999.

I'm also not sure the promises to limit NATO expansion eastward were that explicit. In any event, the Ukraine is not in NATO. NATO as expected supported the Ukraine in a war with Russia. I think more than likely Putin thought Russia was in a good position militarily, politically and economically to attack the Ukraine. In other words, he overplayed his hand.

As far as the DMZ discussion, you could have a hard DMZ like Korea where neither party dares cross it or you can have a situation like Vietnam where there are insurgents active behind the border. Knowing Putin, one would think he would still try to foment unrest within the Ukraine long after a hot war is over.

This leads to an important point about the Korean Conflict and the Vietnam War. It's easy to look back and say the United States needlessly entered these conflicts. The results were also mixed. One however could argue the Pacific Rim is more secure because of allies such as South Korea and other nations that were once threatened by Communist-supported encroachment.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2772097]What the Ukrainians can 'withdraw' is their zionazi government. Now that ziolensky has revealed his true colors in attacking the Orthodox Church it's obvious to all.[/QUOTE][URL]https://genevasolutions.news/ukraine-stories/kremlin-s-agents-in-robes-or-the-role-of-russian-church-in-the-ukraine-war[/URL]

Oh yeah, funny how there's no outrage about it in Orthodox Ukraine. That's because Ukrainians want to rip every last vestige of corrupt Russia out of their country. And it didn't have to be that way, but Putin has single-handedly turned all of Ukraine against anything that even smells like Russia.

BTW, I hope they sell every "church" property where they found New Russia flags and give the proceeds to REAL charitable organizations.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2772175]

Then there is the point about not trusting Putin. Well, we promised we would not expand NATO eastward after the USSR fell, and we went back on our word. And now Ukraine is going to be in NATO?[/QUOTE]"We" have never ever explicitly or otherwise "promised" anyone that we wouldn't expand Nato eastward.

There is no treaty or agreement promising anything to that tune. While the assurances to the USSR were discussed during the negotiations, there has never been an agreement of any kind.

Not even a "gentleman" understanding that this was to happen.

Every participant in the intense diplomatic negotiations of that time from Baker to Gorbachev to Shevarnadze has debunked that myth.

P'utin and his American allies like Candace Owen can keep lying till they're blue in the face.

[URL]https://web.archive.org/web/20220222223845/https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm[/URL]#c203.

[URL]https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2772623][URL]https://genevasolutions.news/ukraine-stories/kremlin-s-agents-in-robes-or-the-role-of-russian-church-in-the-ukraine-war[/URL]

Oh yeah, funny how there's no outrage about it in Orthodox Ukraine. That's because Ukrainians want to rip every last vestige of corrupt Russia out of their country. And it didn't have to be that way, but Putin has single-handedly turned all of Ukraine against anything that even smells like Russia.

BTW, I hope they sell every "church" property where they found New Russia flags and give the proceeds to REAL charitable organizations.[/QUOTE]Ukraine may want to look internally when it comes to corruption. Maybe they could start eliminating corruption in their own county, just a thought.

Pres. Z. could say that he will not tolerate that behavior, but why stop now.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2772894]Ukraine may want to look internally when it comes to corruption. Maybe they could start eliminating corruption in their own county, just a thought.

Pres. Z. could say that he will not tolerate that behavior, but why stop now.[/QUOTE]Fuck the so-called corruption issue. It's total BS because it fails to address (at least) three key issues:

1. Anyone who is attacked has the right to defend themselves, full stop. And that right has nothing to do with how good or bad that person is or how good or bad others think they are. That right is absolute and remains whether a person is a saint, a devil, or something in between. Even the worst convicted criminal, after having done his time and been released, has the right to defend himself if attacked. Hell, he retains that right even while in prison! So, whether Zelensky, or anyone else in Ukraine, is corrupt or not, they're not obliged to lay down and let a Russian tank run over them.

2. The so-called corruption argument nearly always ignores, or severely downplays, the EXTREME corruption perpetrated by Putin and his Kremlin cronies for DECADES. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there's corruption in both sides, any fair balance would tilt immeasurably against Russia. It's not even a serious debate because there's so much more money sloshing around Russia and they've been stealing it for so long.

3. In forward-looking terms, Ukraine has ambitions of joining both the EU and NATO. As they go through those membership processes they will be under all sorts of scrutiny and will be required to pass laws, change systems, and put in safequards. And what that means is that Ukraine is moving toward becoming a country that works to root out corruption, rather than tolerate it. Meanwhile Russia continues to be a kleptocratic sewer.

For all the above reasons, and I'm sure people will think of more, accusations of corruption are a total red herring. Here's a hypothetical for ya, if Zelensky was found guilty of corruption and removed from office, it wouldn't change Ukraine's absolute right to defend their country and their lives. Not one iota.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2772943]........In forward-looking terms, Ukraine has ambitions of joining both the EU and NATO. As they go through those membership processes they will be under all sorts of scrutiny and will be required to pass laws, change systems, and put in safequards. And what that means is that Ukraine is moving toward becoming a country that works to root out corruption, rather than tolerate it.[/QUOTE]I agree with you that the EU will work to bring Western values to the Ukraine. Of course, there is some level of graft in every country. It's inevitable.

All one has to do is look at Turkey. The EU has put Turkish membership on hold for a long time. Turkey's NATO membership is the result of geographic and strategic reasons.

1. The equipment situation: Ukraine will soon be getting IFVs (infantry fighting vehicles) from France, Germany, and the US. Because of their firepower, and other characteristics, the AMX-10 RC, Marder, and Bradley have been described by some as "light tanks," but they have wheels, not tracks. Despite not being a true tank, they will provide a significant upgrade for Ukraine's mobile infantry offensive capability. Will they be a HIMARS-style game changer? Only time will tell and, of course, much will depend on the numbers provided and how well Ukraine handles the new logistics demands.

Ukraine will also be receiving Patriot missile batteries from the US and Germany. One attribute that hasn't received much attention, from what I've seen, is the extremely powerful radar system that comes with that package. I read an analyst's comment that it has the capability of being leveraged to make Ukraine's other air defense assets more effective. If that turns out to be true, then future missile and drone strikes by Russia may be substantially de-fanged. Again, only time will tell.

On the Russian side, the main question is to what degree they'll be able to replace equipment they've already lost. It's hard to assess to what degree sanctions, and the workforce lost to mobilization, are having an effect. One recent report pointed out that a destroyed Russian T-90 tank was a model designed for export rather than the model reserved for Russia's own military. While it's anecdotal evidence, it does raise the question as to Russia's stockpiles (or replacement capability) for that particular piece of equipment.

2. The ammunition situation: Only Russia knows the full extent of their stockpiles. But the rate of artillery fire by Russian forces is drastically reduced (by about two-thirds) from what it was during the summer. There are also reports that Russia has depleted the stores of ammunition held by Belarus, and has also been looking to acquire ammunition from North Korea, which would indicate that they're actively looking both to conserve and to replenish from non-Russian sources. Similarly, heavier reliance on Iranian drones may indicate issues with Russia's supply of missiles.

For Ukraine, the challenge is to manage a dual-supply chain that includes ammo for their legacy systems as well as newly acquired NATO weapons. Ukraine was running low on legacy ammo but captured significant stockpiles during the Kharkhiv offensive. They've also reportedly reconstituted a portion of their domestic ammo production capability. Supplies of ammo for NATO systems will depend on Western deliveries. But, as important as quantity is, quality and accuracy (ex. HIMARS) are also relevant factors. With respect to the situation for both sides, it will be important to focus on what's happening on the battlefields, rather than anything that's being said.

3. The mobilization and training situation: Russia is reportedly planning another large mobilization effort. Whether it will be formally announced, or more low key, remains to be seen. The last mobilization round had quite a few problems and was widely criticized, even by Putin himself. Mobilization also tends to increase outbound migration, unless border restrictions are imposed, as well as drain resources from the civilian workforce. All those mobilized will require training if they're not merely to be thrown at the front line for "cannon fodder" purposes. In the earlier mobilization it appears some were held back for training while others were quickly sent to Ukraine to plug holes in defensive lines. That latter group has understandably suffered a high rate of casualties. Russia's capacity (or inability) to train and equip newly mobilized troops will be something to take note of. Ukraine, meanwhile, continues to benefit from training provided by various Western countries. But what's yet untested is whether Ukraine's forces have the capability to launch the kind of offensive campaign that will be needed to retake significant territory. The Kharkhiv scenario had a number of unique factors that are unlikely to be repeated. If Ukraine wants to move beyond the current battle of attrition, it'll need to raise things to a new level. That being said, Ukraine has been the better side when it comes to using surprising and unexpected tactics. So we'll just have to wait and see what cards are next to be played.

4. The infighting situation: Right now there's a major power struggle between Prighozin (allied with Kadyrov) and the MoD duo of Shoigu and Gerasimov. One way that's manifested is that Russia's regular forces aren't giving normal levels of support to Wagner PMC as they battle in the area of Bakhmut. Prighozin is trying to show that his private army is better and the regular army's leadership will be happy to see him fail. How this plays out and who (if anyone) prevails is anyone's guess. But it's worth watching as power struggles can have significant consequences, even if they're hard to predict. Will Kremlin elites start to take sides? Will Putin swing to one side or the other? Stay tuned!

On the Ukrainian side, the infighting takes the form of debate about supporting Ukraine and in what form and amounts that support should happen. So far those critical of support, like Hungary and Serbia, have been in the minority. But there are no guarantees and situations can always change. Ukraine has done a better job of managing the information war, so far, and it's helped that Russia continues to engage in behavior that sparks outrage in the West.

Non-factors (so far): The China-Russia relationship has essentially been a nothingburger. China is naturally cautious, their economic reliance on Western markets is substantial, and it doesn't help Russia that, to this point, their record on the battlefield is one of losses, rather than gains. Nobody wants to back a loser and China will not want to hitch their wagon to a lame horse. And those China factors don't begin to take into account the significant problems China's experiencing with COVID and economic issues. Comrade Xi is devoting his time, attention, and resources to steady his own ship. Also, the energy weaponization tactic has pretty much fizzled. That could be as a result of warmer than normal temperatures, or it might be the result of good adaptation by European economies. We're not through the winter yet but to this point it certainly hasn't paid the dividends expected by Russia.

The war's not over, the jury's still out, but just wanted to post about the developments I'll be looking out for.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2777229] But what's yet untested is whether Ukraine's forces have the capability to launch the kind of offensive campaign that will be needed to retake significant territory. The Kharkhiv scenario had a number of unique factors that are unlikely to be repeated.[/QUOTE]Pretty good write up, though you completely overlooked the fact that Ukraine reclaimed Kherson in the south after nine months of enemy occupation, a highly strategic and "significant" region where a pseudo referendum was held. In your attempt to sound fair and balanced you overlooked a very important detail. Wink.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2777344]Pretty good write up, though you completely overlooked the fact that Ukraine reclaimed Kherson in the south after nine months of enemy occupation, a highly strategic and "significant" region where a pseudo referendum was held. In your attempt to sound fair and balanced you overlooked a very important detail. Wink.[/QUOTE]First, my post was forward-looking and, as such, was not intended to examine the past in any great depth. Where I do mention past events, like the Kharkhiv campaign, it's primarily for the purpose of pointing out challenges and other factors that might be specifically relevant to the four upcoming developments I listed.

Second, Ukraine has reclaimed Kherson, the city, but nowhere near the entirety of Kherson Oblast. If you look at the map in the link below you'll see the blue (Ukraine reclaimed) area on the west bank of the Dnipro. The red area is still under Russian control and Kherson city is pretty much right on the dividing line. The way you worded your post makes it seem as if the battle for that area is over when, in fact, it's still very much contested.

[URL]https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-6-2023[/URL]

BTW, the contrast between the Kherson and Kharkhiv campaigns serves to reinforce my point that the unique factors that allowed such a rapid victory in Kharkhiv are unlikely to be repeated.

Any questions (wink)?

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2777613]First, my post was forward-looking and, as such, was not intended to examine the past in any great depth. Where I do mention past events, like the Kharkhiv campaign, it's primarily for the purpose of pointing out challenges and other factors that might be specifically relevant to the four upcoming developments I listed.

Second, Ukraine has reclaimed Kherson, the city, but nowhere near the entirety of Kherson Oblast. If you look at the map in the link below you'll see the blue (Ukraine reclaimed) area on the west bank of the Dnipro. The red area is still under Russian control and Kherson city is pretty much right on the dividing line. The way you worded your post makes it seem as if the battle for that area is over when, in fact, it's still very much contested.

[URL]https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-6-2023[/URL][/QUOTE]I couldn't help commenting on this one line that I read in the article you posted.

"While many voices in the Russian information space strongly criticized the ceasefire announcement, certain hardline elements seized on Putin's statement to continue to propagate the narrative that Putin is a protector of religious values and morals".

This bit of orthodox christian proselytizing that has emerged in Russian propaganda is amazing. It's a little bit like "have ideology, will travel". It's also a bit rich given Putin's KGB poster boy past. It appears the Russians who were so good at trying to isolate their people and feed them a steady diet of propaganda for most of the 20th century have developed a propensity to sling the bullshit.

How does that go over inside Russia? Can the Russians really shut down access to internet information? Do any of our resident Russophiles think Putin is some great spiritual and moral leader?

On the world stage, it certainly can be said that imperialistic tendencies generally need an ideology for justification and motivation. This one however can be categorized as theater of the absurd.

In the grander.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2777765]I couldn't help commenting on this one line that I read in the article you posted.

"While many voices in the Russian information space strongly criticized the ceasefire announcement, certain hardline elements seized on Putin's statement to continue to propagate the narrative that Putin is a protector of religious values and morals".

This bit of orthodox christian proselytizing that has emerged in Russian propaganda is amazing. It's a little bit like "have ideology, will travel". It's also a bit rich given Putin's KGB poster boy past. It appears the Russians who were so good at trying to isolate their people and feed them a steady diet of propaganda for most of the 20th century have developed a propensity to sling the bullshit.

How does that go over inside Russia? Can the Russians really shut down access to internet information? Do any of our resident Russophiles think Putin is some great spiritual and moral leader?

On the world stage, it certainly can be said that imperialistic tendencies generally need an ideology for justification and motivation. This one however can be categorized as theater of the absurd.

In the grander.[/QUOTE]Whether it's the pseudo-religious argument, or styling himself as the new Peter the Great (reclaiming historical Russian lands), or claiming to be a victim of NATO and the West, the goal is the same: to delegitimize and dehumanize Ukraine and thereby provide a justification for Russian aggression. It's really not important for anyone to believe any of it, it's only useful to have various excuses you can point to. In fact, having multiple excuses means Russia can conveniently shift gears whenever challenged.

That latter point is important because each of those bogus arguments melt away when subjected to close examination. When stripped down to its core, the Russian justification has always been, very simply, "because we can" (or at least because they thought they could). But the brutal honesty of that position isn't easy for every (internal and external) audience to swallow. So Russia has no problem telling people whatever it takes to "sell" their aggression as something more palatable.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2777819]Whether it's the pseudo-religious argument, or styling himself as the new Peter the Great (reclaiming historical Russian lands), or claiming to be a victim of NATO and the West, the goal is the same: to delegitimize and dehumanize Ukraine and thereby provide a justification for Russian aggression. It's really not important for anyone to believe any of it, it's only useful to have various excuses you can point to. In fact, having multiple excuses means Russia can conveniently shift gears whenever challenged.

That latter point is important because each of those bogus arguments melt away when subjected to close examination. When stripped down to its core, the Russian justification has always been, very simply, "because we can" (or at least because they thought they could). But the brutal honesty of that position isn't easy for every (internal and external) audience to swallow. So Russia has no problem telling people whatever it takes to "sell" their aggression as something more palatable.[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree. Doesn't have to make sense or completely be believed by the public.

As you note, Peter the Great is probably the connection the Russian hawks are trying to make with the country's imperialistic past. As head of both the church and country, Peter the Great harks back to the European history of Christianity and conquest. The Tsar was appointed by God no less.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2772943]Fuck the so-called corruption issue. It's total BS [/QUOTE]Oh yeah. Why is every Ukrainian I know irate with what's happening? The leadership is a cancer.

How does the gifting in Ukraine compare to the American War in indochina or the Double Bill American War in Iraq and Afghanistan? By the way, the corrupt leaders in Ukraine are doing a good job in organizing their populace to resist and "decorating" the countryside with the invaders. As at StarskyUa says "improved".

[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2783272] By the way, the corrupt leaders in Ukraine are doing a good job in organizing their populace to resist [/QUOTE]Sounds like you have also viewed the footage of older men rounded up at gun point and forced to fight.

[QUOTE=Riina;2783176]Oh yeah. Why is every Ukrainian I know irate with what's happening? The leadership is a cancer.[/QUOTE]Nice attempt to misrepresent my meaning by quoting a small portion of my post while pointedly avoiding a mountain of context. Here's the whole thing:

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2772943]Fuck the so-called corruption issue. It's total BS because it fails to address (at least) three key issues:

1. Anyone who is attacked has the right to defend themselves, full stop. And that right has nothing to do with how good or bad that person is or how good or bad others think they are. That right is absolute and remains whether a person is a saint, a devil, or something in between. Even the worst convicted criminal, after having done his time and been released, has the right to defend himself if attacked. Hell, he retains that right even while in prison! So, whether Zelensky, or anyone else in Ukraine, is corrupt or not, they're not obliged to lay down and let a Russian tank run over them.

2. The so-called corruption argument nearly always ignores, or severely downplays, the EXTREME corruption perpetrated by Putin and his Kremlin cronies for DECADES. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there's corruption in both sides, any fair balance would tilt immeasurably against Russia. It's not even a serious debate because there's so much more money sloshing around Russia and they've been stealing it for so long.

3. In forward-looking terms, Ukraine has ambitions of joining both the EU and NATO. As they go through those membership processes they will be under all sorts of scrutiny and will be required to pass laws, change systems, and put in safequards. And what that means is that Ukraine is moving toward becoming a country that works to root out corruption, rather than tolerate it. Meanwhile Russia continues to be a kleptocratic sewer.

For all the above reasons, and I'm sure people will think of more, accusations of corruption are a total red herring. Here's a hypothetical for ya, if Zelensky was found guilty of corruption and removed from office, it wouldn't change Ukraine's absolute right to defend their country and their lives. Not one iota.[/QUOTE]Got any response to the ENTIRE post? Since I clearly stated that the principle of self-defense trumps all else. And since I go out of my way to point out that, even if Zelensky is found guilty of corruption and removed, it wouldn't change the fundamental right of Ukrainians to defend their lives and their land.

Any questions?

P.S. And it remains the height of hypocrisy that all those who get their panties in a twist about corruption on the part of Ukraine, real or alleged, never utter a SINGLE word about the uber-corrupt kleptocracy that rules Russia.

P. P.S. I'm overjoyed at the fact that Ukrainians are outraged by reports of corruption. That means they're making progress toward full EU integration, while Russia marches steadily backward toward their third-world fate.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2784673]Nice attempt to misrepresent my meaning by quoting a small portion of my post while pointedly avoiding a mountain of context. Here's the whole thing:

Got any response to the ENTIRE post? Since I clearly stated that the principle of self-defense trumps all else. And since I go out of my way to point out that, even if Zelensky is found guilty of corruption and removed, it wouldn't change the fundamental right of Ukrainians to defend their lives and their land.

Any questions?

P.S. And it remains the height of hypocrisy that all those who get their panties in a twist about corruption on the part of Ukraine, real or alleged, never utter a SINGLE word about the uber-corrupt kleptocracy that rules Russia.

P. P.S. I'm overjoyed at the fact that Ukrainians are outraged by reports of corruption. That means they're making progress toward full EU integration, while Russia marches steadily backward toward their third-world fate.[/QUOTE]Both countries are as corrupt as Hell! I have my doubts about Ukraine and this is probably just for show, but we can hope that they are finally getting their act together.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2784673]Nice attempt to misrepresent my meaning by quoting a small portion of my post while pointedly avoiding a mountain of context. Here's the whole thing:

"...2. The so-called corruption argument nearly always ignores, or severely downplays, the EXTREME corruption perpetrated by Putin and his Kremlin cronies for DECADES. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there's corruption in both sides, any fair balance would tilt immeasurably against Russia. It's not even a serious debate because there's so much more money sloshing around Russia and they've been stealing it for so long...."

Got any response to the ENTIRE post? Since I clearly stated that the principle of self-defense trumps all else. And since I go out of my way to point out that, even if Zelensky is found guilty of corruption and removed, it wouldn't change the fundamental right of Ukrainians to defend their lives and their land.

Any questions?

P.S. And it remains the height of hypocrisy that all those who get their panties in a twist about corruption on the part of Ukraine, real or alleged, never utter a SINGLE word about the uber-corrupt kleptocracy that rules Russia.

P. P.S. I'm overjoyed at the fact that Ukrainians are outraged by reports of corruption. That means they're making progress toward full EU integration, while Russia marches steadily backward toward their third-world fate.[/QUOTE]In fact, Putin has been actively promoting corruption in Ukraine for decades. He tries to undermine any notion of a fair and democratic society at every point. It's not like both are tarred with the same brush. Putin / Russia is immersed in the mud and tries to drag Ukraine down with it. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes the best Ukrainian leaders succeed (and sometimes they fail).

Sure, as our saying goes 'We don't take bribes, we give them'. Good read / listen from the US POV:

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/@douglasmacgregorcol5835/videos[/URL]

And in Foreign Affairs section [URL]https://www.theamericanconservative.com/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Riina;2783541]Sounds like you have also viewed the footage of older men rounded up at gun point and forced to fight.[/QUOTE]You've got it all wrong. Those were Russian 50+ something, not Ukrainians.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QONzVd11Xw[/URL]

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2784822]Both countries are as corrupt as Hell! I have my doubts about Ukraine and this is probably just for show, but we can hope that they are finally getting their act together.[/QUOTE]Prior to last Feb 24th, Ukraine was managing its affairs under the status quo. Whatever corruption was going on was part of the fabric of that status quo.

Post-invasion, most Ukrainians (politicians + population, from every poll I've seen) have come to the conclusion that their future welfare and existence won't be secure without menbership in the EU, at a minimum, and hopefully also NATO. For either of those two things to happen, Ukraine will need to step up its anti-corruption game. Not for show, but for real.

Another reason is that a population in which so many have experienced the death of family, friends, and acquaintances, are likely to be much less tolerant of corruption during a time of war. Every act of corruption will be viewed, and rightly so, as a direct betrayal of the forces fighting to defend Ukraine and an even more heinous betrayal of those who have given their lives.

[QUOTE=Questner;2784937]Sure, as our saying goes 'We don't take bribes, we give them'. Good read / listen from the US POV:

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/@douglasmacgregorcol5835/videos[/URL]

And in Foreign Affairs section [URL]https://www.theamericanconservative.com/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Why not display some intestinal fortitude and articulate an argument rather than just drop links that aren't even to any specific videos or articles? Colonel McGregor is a Putin buttboy. There's a slew of US generals both on the right and left that staunchly disagree with him. The American Conservative is a far right, isolationist publication founded by the bigot and Nazi sympathizer Pat Buchanan.

The bottom line is that it's in both our national interest and that of our European allies that borders are not changed through aggression. We also can't afford to shrink at nuclear saber rattling given the precedent it would set. Putin needs to fail and he's going to. Russia since the fall of the USSR has been repeatedly invited to join the civilized world but has refused. They will remain our enemy until they change their minds. But I and others have covered this ad nauseam in the recent past, calling out the whataboutism and other deflections and faulty analysis from far right advocates like Kerzog, I believe was the name, and Drama Queen also. I'm not doing it all over again as the work was already completed, but I encourage anyone curious to look up my posts on this thread.

P.S. Thankfully this isolationist angle represents a minority view among Republicans and that's much more so the case among Democrats. Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2784822]Both countries are as corrupt as Hell! I have my doubts about Ukraine and this is probably just for show, but we can hope that they are finally getting their act together.[/QUOTE]Russia is far worse, and this is reflected in the differences in their freedom scores, Ukraine 59 out of 100, Russia 23. Many metrics are taken into account with these scores and corruption is a big focus. Ukraine has seen a lot of improvements since 2014.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-net/scores[/URL]

And this link has been posted many times before, but you choose to come back here month after month and post this same simplistic and fallacious talking point over and over. Do some research, get a grip on some honesty, try to rise above the level of the spin Tucker Carlson frames for his high school education level audience, and maybe you can become a useful contributor. Stranger things have happened.

The global freedom scores are the more pertinent, and here Ukraine scores 61 in 100, Russia 19.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

[URL]https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/ukraine-banned-landmines-harm-civilians[/URL]

[QUOTE=Questner;2785217][URL]https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/ukraine-banned-landmines-harm-civilians[/URL][/QUOTE]Wow the Raschists are using a butt-tonne of illegal landmines. That is disgusting and once UA takes back it's land will be a problem for a long time.

Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=Questner;2785217][URL]https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/31/ukraine-banned-landmines-harm-civilians[/URL][/QUOTE]So we get another link from a guy who still hasn't the balls to formulate an argument. Sadly that's mostly all we get from the far right crowd that swallows hood link and rinker the nonsense through their Facebook feeds, but lack any intellectual increduity to evalutate it. Whatever nonsense sounds good to them they parrot and pass along. Yawns.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2785353]Slava Ukraini.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2785731][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUoFuSuvTM[/URL][/QUOTE]Ten years ago it was "Ukraine for Ukrainians". Now it's "Stand with Ukraine". No thanks, I saw how you treated folks exactly in your situation.

[QUOTE=Riina;2785869]Ten years ago it was "Ukraine for Ukrainians". Now it's "Stand with Ukraine". No thanks, I saw how you treated folks exactly in your situation.[/QUOTE]Ukraine for Ukrainians? LOL.

More bullshit please! Never let the truth get in the way of a good propaganda slogan, tovarisch.

Ursula in Kiev: the first case in history of medicine where a drug addict was attended by a gynecologist.

[QUOTE=Riina;2785869]Ten years ago it was "Ukraine for Ukrainians". Now it's "Stand with Ukraine". No thanks, I saw how you treated folks exactly in your situation.[/QUOTE]Lets just grow a pair and admit it. Russia is changing borders with aggressions, murdering children and cilvilians. They tried to steal the entire country but failed because of Ukrainian strength and NATO. You come here, cowardly, in a hooker forum defending Russia. Ok, the Russian bodies will keep piling up, and it's because of the murderous actions you wish to defend. That's really all that needs to be said.

Last time I was in Kiev, I had a disturbing experience. Jumping around in a club with college cuties, I thought I was in paradise. The hotties looked so lovely and innocent. Then the tide went out and the ugly showed itself. A group of Indian girls walked into the club and every single Ukrainian girl in that place showed their complete disgust right in the face of these poor girls just looking to go out and have some fun. It's in the detail what a society is about. Ukraine has always been an illusion to silly foreigners.

[QUOTE=Riina;2786923]Last time I was in Kiev, I had a disturbing experience. Jumping around in a club with college cuties, I thought I was in paradise. The hotties looked so lovely and innocent. Then the tide went out and the ugly showed itself. A group of Indian girls walked into the club and every single Ukrainian girl in that place showed their complete disgust right in the face of these poor girls just looking to go out and have some fun. It's in the detail what a society is about. Ukraine has always been an illusion to silly foreigners.[/QUOTE]If those Indian girls had had the good taste to get botox lip implants surely they'd have been welcomed into the EU wannabe sisterhood.

It's said that life in Ukraine under former President, a candy business magnate, was not sweet, and life under the present snorting clown is not funny.

You can take a quiz on how many articles of the recent Ukrainian Constitution are bluntly violated: [URL]https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Ukraine_2019?lang=en[/URL].

Interesting history fact: an inauguration of Hetman of Ukrain Pavlo Skoropadskyi in 1918 was held in a circus Hippo Palace (the building has been since demolished). It's all started as a joke.

[QUOTE=Riina;2786923]Last time I was in Kiev, I had a disturbing experience. Jumping around in a club with college cuties, I thought I was in paradise. The hotties looked so lovely and innocent. Then the tide went out and the ugly showed itself. A group of Indian girls walked into the club and every single Ukrainian girl in that place showed their complete disgust right in the face of these poor girls just looking to go out and have some fun. It's in the detail what a society is about. Ukraine has always been an illusion to silly foreigners.[/QUOTE]Pre-invasion Ukraine is a country that no longer exists. Pre-invasion attitudes will, for many (if not most) be completely transformed along the lines of "who helped us, who was against us, and who stood silent."

When the war is over, people from Poland, the Baltics, and Nordics will be treated like close family. They pitched in early and gave whole-heartedly. Next will come countries like the US and UK, who helped, but could have done more and done it sooner. Toward the lower end of acceptability will be those countries, like Germany, who helped grudgingly after much internal and external pressure.

Held at arms length (or worse) will be countries who stood silently on the sidelines, or leaned against Ukraine without crossing too many lines. These might include Hungary, Serbia, and Croatia.

Finally will be those countries that Ukrainians will view as co-belligerents and-or Russia enablers. China, India, and Iran will be on that list. Given what Ukrainians have experienced, it's hard to see how they will forget or forgive.

FWIW, any pre-invasion experiences in Ukraine should probably be flushed down the toilet. The world has forever changed.

[QUOTE=Questner;2787121]It's said that life in Ukraine under former President, a candy business magnate, was not sweet, and life under the present snorting clown is not funny.

You can take a quiz on how many articles of the recent Ukrainian Constitution are bluntly violated: [URL]https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Ukraine_2019?lang=en[/URL].

Interesting history fact: an inauguration of Hetman of Ukrain Pavlo Skoropadskyi in 1918 was held in a circus Hippo Palace (the building has been since demolished). It's all started as a joke.[/QUOTE]Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. FDR had internment camps. The real barometer will be what happens after the war is over. Zelensky won't be president forever and the fact that Ukraine sees its future within the EU means they'll need to keep moving forward toward European standards and norms.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2787134]Pre-invasion Ukraine is a country that no longer exists. Pre-invasion attitudes will, for many (if not most) be completely transformed along the lines of "who helped us, who was against us, and who stood silent."

When the war is over, people from Poland, the Baltics, and Nordics will be treated like close family. They pitched in early and gave whole-heartedly. Next will come countries like the US and UK, who helped, but could have done more and done it sooner. Toward the lower end of acceptability will be those countries, like Germany, who helped grudgingly after much internal and external pressure.

Held at arms length (or worse) will be countries who stood silently on the sidelines, or leaned against Ukraine without crossing too many lines. These might include Hungary, Serbia, and Croatia.

Finally will be those countries that Ukrainians will view as co-belligerents and-or Russia enablers. China, India, and Iran will be on that list. Given what Ukrainians have experienced, it's hard to see how they will forget or forgive.

FWIW, any pre-invasion experiences in Ukraine should probably be flushed down the toilet. The world has forever changed.[/QUOTE]"Pre-invasion Ukraine is a country that no longer exists. " This is very true.

I have no problem with drawing up lists of the Ukraine's allies, enemies and the non-committal. I just don't think the Ukraine war will have far lasting repercussions with the Ukrainians' perception of other countries around the world.

Germany's prestige will take a temporary hit within the Ukraine. That won't last long because Germany's economic might will eventually pull in the Ukraine. I also suspect the Germans will play a big part in the post-war reconstruction. German business will not want to miss out.

China is big enough and powerful enough to make small inroads in the future Ukraine. The Chinese are always limited by cultural differences and suspicions around the world.

Poland and the Baltics will likely develop a closer kinship with the Ukraine, but again it will lack economic importance.

In peacetime, money speaks volumes.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2784822]Both countries are as corrupt as Hell![/QUOTE]Russia is a mob country and Ukraine is the little crooked brother. Thing is when you have the same kind of crooks next to each other, the stronger always has to have influence over the weaker. Sadly, the Western gangsters have decided to meddle with this natural order. A recipe for disaster.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2787380]"Pre-invasion Ukraine is a country that no longer exists. " This is very true.

I have no problem with drawing up lists of the Ukraine's allies, enemies and the non-committal. I just don't think the Ukraine war will have far lasting repercussions with the Ukrainians' perception of other countries around the world.

Germany's prestige will take a temporary hit within the Ukraine. That won't last long because Germany's economic might will eventually pull in the Ukraine. I also suspect the Germans will play a big part in the post-war reconstruction. German business will not want to miss out.

China is big enough and powerful enough to make small inroads in the future Ukraine. The Chinese are always limited by cultural differences and suspicions around the world.

Poland and the Baltics will likely develop a closer kinship with the Ukraine, but again it will lack economic importance.

In peacetime, money speaks volumes.[/QUOTE]For anyone from that WW-II generation, especially those who actually fought in the war, or lost someone close to them, their feelings toward Germans and Japanese were vastly different than those of the generation that came after.

Think, for example, about people who directly experienced the horrors of war, like the Brits who endured bombings during the Battle of Britain. For those people, the war remains a raw wound for a long time, possibly their entire life. There's no easy way to forgive what you believe to be atrocities or to forget the loved ones who were killed by brutal aggression.

This isn't some abstract and remote war for most Ukrainians. War crimes have been committed against them. Children have been ripped from families and sent to Russia.

I simply don't agree that it'll pass as quickly as you think, or that money from those who are detested will be welcomed. Money is going to flow into Ukraine in large Marshall Plan amounts. They'll have no lack of choices among various countries and it's my guess the best contracts will go to those countries and companies who are viewed as family and friends. Germany will probably be somewhere in the middle. Ukrainians will accept German money but probably lay on a thick layer of guilt at the same time.

As with most things in the future, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2784991]Prior to last Feb 24th....

Another reason is that a population in which so many have experienced the death of family, friends, and acquaintances, are likely to be much less tolerant of corruption during a time of war. Every act of corruption will be viewed, and rightly so, as a direct betrayal of the forces fighting to defend Ukraine and an even more heinous betrayal of those who have given their lives.[/QUOTE]That's right on. At least I hope it is. Corruption is not just a blight where a few well-connected or brazen thieves benefit from ill-gotten gains to the general detriment of society overall, but now people must see it (corruption in the military, at least) as an existential threat. To Ukrainian society as a whole and perhaps to them or their loved ones personally?

Why do Russian conscripts have to buy their own clothing and gear? Because someone up the chain of command stole it and sold it elsewhere.

That has happened a in Ukraine in the past, and probably to a certain extent still, but now everybody realizes it is not harmless graft. People will suffer and die from it.

So hopefully, that will lead to a healthier attitude in society about the evil and harm of corruption and the importance of accountability. But we will see if it lasts.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2787531]For anyone from that WW-II generation, especially those who actually fought in the war, or lost someone close to them, their feelings toward Germans and Japanese were vastly different than those of the generation that came after.

Think, for example, about people who directly experienced the horrors of war, like the Brits who endured bombings during the Battle of Britain. For those people, the war remains a raw wound for a long time, possibly their entire life. There's no easy way to forgive what you believe to be atrocities or to forget the loved ones who were killed by brutal aggression.

This isn't some abstract and remote war for most Ukrainians. War crimes have been committed against them. Children have been ripped from families and sent to Russia.

I simply don't agree that it'll pass as quickly as you think, or that money from those who are detested will be welcomed. Money is going to flow into Ukraine in large Marshall Plan amounts. They'll have no lack of choices among various countries and it's my guess the best contracts will go to those countries and companies who are viewed as family and friends. Germany will probably be somewhere in the middle. Ukrainians will accept German money but probably lay on a thick layer of guilt at the same time.

As with most things in the future, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]History can only be instructive to a point. Things won't be back to normal between Ukrainians and Russians simply because unlike Germany, Russia will never be occupied.

American occupation was the best thing that's ever happened to Germany and Japan. Bar none.

But because Russia can't be occupied (for more reasons than one), it's future is bleaker than bleak.

This is what's going to happen to Russia: catastrophic defeat, bloody civil war and the final dissolution of their empire. The Russian Empire will be gone for good leading to the birth of several new countries -- all corrupt, authoritarian and as economically inept as today's Russia.

Russians will never repent or regret. Instead, they'll portray themselves as a victim who lost because the whole world "conspired" to destroy them. They've already started pushing that drivel on TV.

Ukrainians will not forget and forgive, at least as quickly as the world forgave Germany in the 20th century. It'll take a hundred years if not more.

Russia will fully become a China's client state. It will turn into a giant North Korea blackmailing the world with their stockpiles of WMD.

Good night!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2787856]History can only be instructive to a point. Things won't be back to normal between Ukrainians and Russians simply because unlike Germany, Russia will never be occupied.

American occupation was the best thing that's ever happened to Germany and Japan. Bar none.

But because Russia can't be occupied (for more reasons than one), it's future is bleaker than bleak.

This is what's going to happen to Russia: catastrophic defeat, bloody civil war and the final dissolution of their empire. The Russian Empire will be gone for good leading to the birth of several new countries -- all corrupt, authoritarian and as economically inept as today's Russia.

Russians will never repent or regret. Instead, they'll portray themselves as a victim who lost because the whole world "conspired" to destroy them. They've already started pushing that drivel on TV.

Ukrainians will not forget and forgive, at least as quickly as the world forgave Germany in the 20th century. It'll take a hundred years if not more.

Russia will fully become a China's client state. It will turn into a giant North Korea blackmailing the world with their stockpiles of WMD.

Good night![/QUOTE]I wasn't trying to make wide-ranging historical comparisons, only the limited one of pointing out that the generation who fights the war has stronger emotions, and more raw wounds, than those who come after.

That being said, I don't disagree with the general gist of your post. Russia is facing a bleak future although there are a few different ways their path might go. One interesting variable will be how much longer Putin is around, and who takes over after he dies or is removed. That's something I think we'll see sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2748306]The Americans did not bomb Nordstream 2, it was the Russians. Evidence will be found soon enough, I'm so confident I will happily place a wager on this, do you want to take me up on this? I will bet that it was not the Americans, will you take the bet?[/QUOTE]I'll take that bet.

[QUOTE=Riina;2788821]I'll take that bet.[/QUOTE]Much more likely Germany did it. There are still many sympathisers of Russia there. While the pipelines existed there were always voices wanting to appease Russia to turn the gas back on. Fter the bombing that option disappeared as did the rationale for making deals with Russia.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2748306]The Americans did not bomb Nordstream 2, it was the Russians. Evidence will be found soon enough, I'm so confident I will happily place a wager on this, do you want to take me up on this? I will bet that it was not the Americans, will you take the bet?[/QUOTE]I think it was neither Americans nor Russians. Pols hate the Russians more than Ukrainians hate the Russians even after being bombed. Location location and location. Poland has more than enough knowhow to conduct such an operation, let alone knowledge of the sea floor right off their coast. The fact that the investigation didn't come up with anything solid points to a likely uncomfortable conclusion and in my mind it would mean Poland. The Ukrainians themselves could've done it. Soviet expertise could never be underestimated. Even a well organized private operation could've been conducted.

Both Russia and the US definitely a possibility. I can't see what Russia gains out of it. I can see however what the US gains out of it. Still if I had to put my money on something now. I'd put it on Poland.

[QUOTE=Riina;2788821]I'll take that bet.[/QUOTE][URL]https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream[/URL]

The President of RF could have just stopped the supply with a stroke of a pen as part of anti-sanctions mechanism and prevent Gazprom's exports.

[QUOTE=Riina;2788821]I'll take that bet.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Questner;2788960][URL]https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream[/URL]

The President of RF could have just stopped the supply with a stroke of a pen as part of anti-sanctions mechanism and prevent Gazprom's exports.[/QUOTE]Right. What do you think Russia is afraid of more sanctions or something? The US on the other hand have been trying to stop Russian gas and oil deliveries to Europe since way before Russo-Ukrainian war, in fact if I remember correctly even before 2014, like way before. Now with its chief competitor no more viable the US is beginning to transport its gas and oil to Europe. One up for the US!

"The President of RF could have just stopped the supply with a stroke of a pen".

Not if they wanted to avoid legal actions.

Not if they wanted to get an insurance payoff.

Not if they wanted to raise gas prices.

Not if they wanted to threaten the new Baltic pipeline and other infrastructure projects.

Not if they tried to sow as much chaos as possible, which is What. They. Always. Do.

These little blame games are such a good, clean fun for Russia's apologists -- I almost feel guilty debunking them.

So getting the heck out of Domodevodo (Dodge)! I'm surprised Putin didn't just slam the exits shut to prevent so many people from running away from crappy Russia and [B]his[/B] war.

[URL]https://apple.news/AnAdpMhPKQA6jGqp3xcs1Jw[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nrlmus;2788955]I can't see what Russia gains out of it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Questner;2788960]The President of RF could have just stopped the supply with a stroke of a pen as part of anti-sanctions mechanism and prevent Gazprom's exports.[/QUOTE]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word.

If suddenly the pipeline fails, then the result is same in that gas is not supplied, but RF is not in breach of contract.

This is why it is RF that did the bombing, so they could apply pressure on Europe without having to be in formal breach of contract.

As with most things, the simplest explanation is most often the truth.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2789099]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word.

If suddenly the pipeline fails, then the result is same in that gas is not supplied, but RF is not in breach of contract.

This is why it is RF that did the bombing, so they could apply pressure on Europe without having to be in formal breach of contract.

As with most things, the simplest explanation is most often the truth.[/QUOTE]Just thinking to myself, this is why its crazy for Russia to playing the hand of an aggressor. Russia's economic welfare is intertwined with Western commerce. Is there much hope for the Russian economy while they continue to be the bully in the region? Do they really want to go back to being isolated from the world?

There's China, but China still needs Western markets for its goods.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2789099]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word..[/QUOTE]That's right, just forget about the other side of the contract, the one where you know, the party that receives the Russian oil has to like pay for it.

[QUOTE=VinDici;2789099]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word.

If suddenly the pipeline fails, then the result is same in that gas is not supplied, but RF is not in breach of contract.

This is why it is RF that did the bombing, so they could apply pressure on Europe without having to be in formal breach of contract.

As with most things, the simplest explanation is most often the truth.[/QUOTE]That's right, but a small correction. It's not about their "reliability". Russia stopped worrying about their reputation a long time ago.

[QUOTE]One irony of the attack is that Russias Gazprom potentially stands to benefit: it will no longer need to invent excuses not to supply Europe via Nord Stream 1. Now it can claim a force majeure, which will dramatically reduce the risk of compensation claims for non-delivered volumes. This logic, however, does not explain the damage caused to Nord Stream 2. On the other hand, the Nord Stream consortium companies and eventually Gazprom might even hope to collect some insurance for the damaged pipelines. Given that they already looked set to become a stranded asset, that would be far from the worst outcome for the giant company.[/QUOTE]As for Nord Stream 2, it was useless anyway. It was never operational and probably never will be. There were no downsides for the Russians to blow it up.

[URL]https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88062[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nrlmus;2789045]Right. What do you think Russia is afraid of more sanctions or something? The US on the other hand have been trying to stop Russian gas and oil deliveries to Europe since way before Russo-Ukrainian war, in fact if I remember correctly even before 2014, like way before. Now with its chief competitor no more viable the US is beginning to transport its gas and oil to Europe. One up for the US![/QUOTE]We actually benefit tremendously from sanctions as it helps us to develop our own industries. True that Syrian and Ukrainian conflicts are both part of what has been called 'Gas Wars'. We have been supplying Europe reliably with commodities at the best possible prices for half of the century. Blowing up the pipelines is an act of war and is also against US European allies. This is a second instance since 1982 ([URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss[/URL]#Siberian_pipeline_sabotage)(you have also to read an account in Russian and explore further). Also, in these supply contracts sanctions are part of 'force majeure', meaning we can stop exports as part of a governmental decision (anti-sanctions mechanism)

[QUOTE=VinDici;2789099]Let me put it simply. There are long term supply contracts in place. If Russia simply stop delivering, they are in breach of contract, and every other country that has contracts with them will see that they are an unreliable partner who cannot be trusted to keep their word.

If suddenly the pipeline fails, then the result is same in that gas is not supplied, but RF is not in breach of contract.

This is why it is RF that did the bombing, so they could apply pressure on Europe without having to be in formal breach of contract.

As with most things, the simplest explanation is most often the truth.[/QUOTE]First, it's interesting that he published the story on his personal substack, not in any media outlet (pro-Russia, pro-Ukraine, or neutral). My thought is that he might have been asked to share details about his anonymous source. It certainly raises questions since he surely could have found a sympathetic website or publication. The obvious conclusion, at least to me, is that he wants to retain full control of things.

Second, critics are starting to pick apart the story and one I found worth reading mentions errors Hersh has made before, and also examines various details in the NordStream story. In fact, the critique makes the point that the amount of detail works against the credibility of the story, because they provide more fact-checking opportunities.

[URL]https://twitter.com/wesleysmorgan/status/1623428680054603776[/URL]

P.S. There's one other reason I've read that supports the Russia bomb theory. It speculates that a working pipeline would have provided leverage, and a potential lifeline, for any successor to Putin. By removing it from the game, Putin eliminated that possibility. So any Russian elites who might have considered a coup are stuck with Putin, at least until conditions change.

[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2789127]Just thinking to myself, this is why its crazy for Russia to playing the hand of an aggressor. Russia's economic welfare is intertwined with Western commerce. Is there much hope for the Russian economy while they continue to be the bully in the region? Do they really want to go back to being isolated from the world?

There's China, but China still needs Western markets for its goods.[/QUOTE]You can't look for logic in the last tribe of empire-builders on Earth.

[QUOTE=Questner;2789277]We actually benefit tremendously from sanctions as it helps us to develop our own industries.[/QUOTE]Oh yeah? What "your own" industries have you "developed" so far? Pine cones?

What's he thinking about here? Butt plugs?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2789192].......As for Nord Stream 2, it was useless anyway. It was never operational and probably never will be. There were no downsides for the Russians to blow it up.

[URL]https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88062[/URL][/QUOTE]I thought this quote from the article was entertaining.

"There are aspects of this mystery that resemble an Agatha Christie novel, in which nearly everyone involved appears to have a motive or would benefit from the outcome."

It would seem the perfect act of international sabotage is one where several actors could have conducted the operation. It's a perfect Act 1 to a spy novel.

In Nov 2001 Hersh wrote an article in the New Yorker about a post-9/11 US raid in Afghanistan. In that article he quotes his source describing the raid planning process as a "goat fuck," which is a rather specific and colorful phrase.

Fast-forward over 20 years and, in his Nordstream story, lo and behold he quotes his current "source" using the exact same phrase to describe the pipeline attack planning process. Quite the coincidence, right?

[URL]https://twitter.com/wesleysmorgan/status/1626359040652484608[/URL]

What are the odds of two different sources using the same phrase, in the same way, to describe two different (alleged) events? And, for any who think it might have been the same source, what are the odds that the source for the earlier story (who would have needed to be in the upper levels of govt in 2001) would have been in a similar position over 20 years later? Consider that someone at the level required for access to info for the 2001 story would likely have retired by now. Or, if they were at the highest levels of the bureaucracy, they would have been flushed out during the various changes in administrations. The peons in the bureaucracy usually remain, but each new administration usually brings in its own set of chiefs.

My reason for going into extra detail is simply to point out that the most likely explanation for the recurrence of the "goat fuck" phrase is that Hersh likes how it sounds and probably forgot that he'd used it before.

IMO, Hersh's ship of credibility is taking on water and sinking fast!

Remember all the donations and protests by Ukrainians in the states? Yeah, that's pretty much over. Whenever they plan to organize something, about a quarter of expected folks show up. The church's are avoiding the issue.

IMO, Ukraine's ship of credibility is taking on water and sinking fast.

Here's to hoping Kiev / Kyiv / whatever turns into a European Pattaya / AC. Both of those started as American "are & are" spots after all.

[QUOTE=Riina;2790528]Remember all the donations and protests by Ukrainians in the states? Yeah, that's pretty much over. Whenever they plan to organize something, about a quarter of expected folks show up. The church's are avoiding the issue.

IMO, Ukraine's ship of credibility is taking on water and sinking fast.[/QUOTE]There has never been any interest in war in Ukraine. The comedian got over 3/4 of votes, even 1/2 in Western regions, with the only mandate. To reach peace agreement. Then UI he reversed course, and now banned 11 opposition parties in Rada, and even stripped a few of elected members of parliament of citizenship. His gang completely lost credibility and no longer speak for Ukraine.

There might be an alternate universe in a different dimension of space and time where Russians can still decide who does or doesn't speak for Ukraine (or other nations for that matter).

The problem is it ain't here. In this realm, their time is up.

[QUOTE=Riina;2790528]Remember all the donations and protests by Ukrainians in the states? Yeah, that's pretty much over. Whenever they plan to organize something, about a quarter of expected folks show up. The church's are avoiding the issue.

IMO, Ukraine's ship of credibility is taking on water and sinking fast.[/QUOTE]Got any links to anything resembling factual info to back up your assertions? From what I've seen, Zelensky still has strong approval ratings within Ukraine. And, since they're the ones who are actually fighting, I would argue that's the most important metric. Next would be the attitudes of the leaders from supporting countries, like the US, France, Poland, Germany, etc. And I haven't seen any decline on that front, rather I've seen a consolidation of support.

Again, if you have any factual basis for your assertion that Ukraine is losing credibility or support, by all means please share with the forum.

[QUOTE=Questner;2790583]There has never been any interest in war in Ukraine. The comedian got over 3/4 of votes, even 1/2 in Western regions, with the only mandate. To reach peace agreement. Then UI he reversed course, and now banned 11 opposition parties in Rada, and even stripped a few of elected members of parliament of citizenship. His gang completely lost credibility and no longer speak for Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Same response to you as to Riina. Namely, got any links to factual info backing up your assertions? If you claim Zelensky doesn't speak for Ukraine, then who does? And what evidence do you have that demonstrates any of this?

[QUOTE=DoktorEn;2790568]Here's to hoping Kiev / Kyiv / whatever turns into a European Pattaya / AC. Both of those started as American "are & are" spots after all.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=DoktorEn;2790568]Here's to hoping Kiev / Kyiv / whatever turns into a European Pattaya / AC. Both of those started as American "are & are" spots after all.[/QUOTE]I think there are cultural factors on why Pattaya and Angeles City are what they are. I don't think Kiev or anywhere in the Ukraine will be that wide-open mongering paradise.

Like many countries with either legal prostitution or little enforcement, it's kind of a game to keep it out of the spotlight and a manageable size. If venues are too brazen or don't pay off the right authorities, they get harassed or shutdown.

I can think of my beloved Rio de Janeiro. There was a part of Copacabana Beach that was basically Hooker Beach. That scene moved to a few cafes along the beach later in the day and then even later into a huge hooker disco. Brazilian tourists and their families stayed away from this area. The area became inhabited by primarily sex tourists.

A few years prior to the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympics, Rio found away to pressure the disco to close and sell the site to the municipality. The Rio sex scene didn't disappear, but it shrank considerably and moved indoors into small venues.

I'm sure some members have heard of Dongquan. In the 2000's, Dongquan became China's Disneyland of Sex. It seems as Dongquan's reputation became internationally well-known, the Chinese government shutdown the sex scene by the mid-2000 teens.

Zelensky is a major reason Ukraine's not only still standing but winning.

If he did leave Kiev when offered a ride by the USA Diplomats, the scene would've been different. It wouldn't have quelled the resistance, but the aggressor might've taken the capital.

No kidding the putinists hate this comedian. He personifies all heir troubles.

[QUOTE]The 44-year-old former comedian has surprised many by his transformation into a wartime leader.

In a survey conducted in December 2022, the Kyiv Institute of Sociology (KIIS) found that 84 per cent of Ukrainians trust Zelensky, a three-fold jump from the survey it fielded in December 2021. Only Ukraines armed forces have a larger support base, with 96 per cent of Ukrainians trusting them.

The war has entirely changed the attitude of Ukrainians towards Zelensky, KIIS director Volodymyr Paniotto told IWPR.

It was significant for Ukrainians that Zelensky behaved as a true leader at the decisive moment: he did not leave the country despite offers and performed his duties with dignity, Evgeniya Bliznyuk, founding CEO of the Kyiv-based Gradus Research, told IWPR. This became part of his image, ensuring popularity both abroad and inside the country.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2790852]

If he did leave Kiev when offered a ride by the USA Diplomats, the scene would've been different. It wouldn't have quelled the resistance, but the aggressor might've taken the capital.

[/QUOTE]The day is coming for the gangster clown to flee. Do you think he has LV or Gucci luggage filled with cash, ready to go?

February 21,2023 at 4:00 am ET stay tuned.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2790852]Zelensky is a major reason Ukraine's not only still standing but winning.

If he did leave Kiev when offered a ride by the USA Diplomats, the scene would've been different. It wouldn't have quelled the resistance, but the aggressor might've taken the capital.

No kidding the putinists hate this comedian. He personifies all heir troubles.[/QUOTE]Ukraine would have the right to resist invasion no matter who was leading them. It makes the anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia crowd feel better if they can caricature and criticize. Those are the same kinds of people who were quick to point out flaws in Churchill, Gen. Grant, etc. However they try to rationalize things, they're attack dogs, pure and simple.

Proof was asked of Questner and of course none was given aside from propaganda via political cartoon. Ukraine like much of post Cold War Eastern Europe wants to be free, and proves it every day with their personal sacrifices and blood on the battlefield. As a result they like several other nations in the region have asked for integration and protection from the bear. Occam's razor, and it's far from rocket science. Russia's playing the victim while blaming the victim is smoke and mirrors.

And no one told thousands of people who took the Munich streets today that it's "pretty much over" and there is "no interest in war in Ukraine. " Why, oh why?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2790950]And no one told thousands of people who took the Munich streets today that it's "pretty much over" and there is "no interest in war in Ukraine. " Why, oh why?[/QUOTE]That's a photo of a small counter protest to the thousands of antiwar protesters in Munich. Liar.

[QUOTE=Riina;2790864]The day is coming for the gangster clown to flee. Do you think he has LV or Gucci luggage filled with cash, ready to go?[/QUOTE]You mean like the President of Afghanistan when he left and money was falling out of his helicopter. No. This will be much worse. Zelenskyy will need a fleet of cargo planes to haul off his cash. I'm sure his wife is picking out premier villas around the world.

[QUOTE=Riina;2791031]That's a photo of a small counter protest to the thousands of antiwar protesters in Munich. Liar.[/QUOTE]You seem to be thoroughly confused. Allow me to help.

Antiwar protest IS an anti-Russia protest by definition. Russia started this war.

The protest in my photo WAS an antiwar protest.

When we will see the day when the jester replays May 10,1941 flight into Scotland? Meanwhile let's sing to the beloved tune: [URL]https://youtu.be/gPpOJvm6998[/URL].

[QUOTE=Locamotive;2791090]You mean like the President of Afghanistan when he left and money was falling out of his helicopter. No. This will be much worse. Zelenskyy will need a fleet of cargo planes to haul off his cash. I'm sure his wife is picking out premier villas around the world.[/QUOTE]What that lame theory fails to explain is why he didn't leave immediately after the invasion. At that point Ukraine's supporters were few and far between, and mostly offered encouragement and prayers rather than weapons.

Among Putin's reported objectives were things like capturing or assassinating govt officials, with Zelensky obviously being the top prize. And yet, at that most opportune moment to flee, when no one would have faulted him, he chose to stay and said he needed ammunition, not a ride.

Had he fled, he could have set up a "government in exile" somewhere nice and safe, while raking in millions in donations. He didn't, and he hasn't, which is a giant poke in the eye to all those suffering from terminal Zelensky Derangement Syndrome.

Those who make the mistake of personalizing this conflict and making everything about Zelensky (or Putin) miss the obvious fact that if either of them dropped dead tomorrow, nothing would change. Any new leader of Ukraine would ABSOLUTELY need to continue defending that country. The Ukrainian people would demand it. And any new Soviet (oops, I mean Russian) leader would either continue fighting, from sheer inertia, or maybe start to roll things back.

The problem with that latter course is that for Russia to have spent so much in resources and lives, without any semblance of victory, would be hugely humiliating and destabilizing. What would become of Russia after that is anybody's guess. The new leader might try to blame everything on Putin, but that's such a radical change of direction that it could very well backfire and fracture or crash the system.

And, if Russia starts to destabilize, even around the edges, the vultures are already hovering and ready to carve off a piece for themselves. Keep an eye on Kadyrov and Lukashenko, for example. Both are survivors and will do whatever they can to avoid going down with the (Moskva) ship.

[QUOTE=Locamotive;2791090]You mean like the President of Afghanistan when he left and money was falling out of his helicopter. No. This will be much worse. Zelenskyy will need a fleet of cargo planes to haul off his cash. I'm sure his wife is picking out premier villas around the world.[/QUOTE]Once thing is for sure, if representation in this forum is any indicator there's a high percentage of men who pay for sex who also have their heads up between Putin's butt cheeks. The same also are often angry at the USA, blaming the same for their life failings as they failed to grasp hold of the dream, and often find themselves expats in 3rd World shitholes.

Zelensky will be staying in Kyiv while Russia will continue to fail until an agreement is reached where the security of Ukraine is assured. And once again, Russia is far more corrupt than Ukraine based on credible measures, Ukraine 61 score out of 100, Russia 19. While Ukraine has made a lot of progress in that area in the last nine years.

[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]

Well, the USA Says it's not entirely accurate, LOL.

[B]Biden Went to Kyiv Because There's No Going Back.[/B]

[QUOTE]He's the American president. He made an unprecedented trip to a war zone, one where there are no U.S. troops to protect him. And, yes, hes old. But he went anyway.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/biden-trip-ukraine-kyiv/673134[/URL]

Sorry comrades.

Scareface has got a competitor, now we know why Mexican border remains open.

[QUOTE]Together, weve committed nearly 700 tanks and thousands of armored vehicles, 1,000 artillery systems, more than 2 million rounds of artillery ammunition, more than 50 advanced launch rocket systems, anti-ship and air defense systems, all defend U- to defend Ukraine. And that doesnt count the other half a billion dollars were going to be were announcing with you today and tomorrow thats going to be coming your way. And thats just the United States, in this piece.

And just today, that announcement includes artillery ammunition for HIMARS and howitzers, more Javelins, anti-armor systems, air surveillance radars thatll protect Ukrainian people from aerial bombardments.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/02/20/remarks-by-president-biden-and-president-zelenskyy-of-ukraine-in-joint-statement/[/URL]

Oh and you know the carnivals all over Europe feature one familiar image.

Why again has no one told those people that it's "pretty much over" and there is "no interest in war in Ukraine"?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2790852]Zelensky is a major reason Ukraine's not only still standing but winning.
.[/QUOTE]The gangster clown is a perfect tool of the en aye zeez. His calculation is that Ruski are unlikely to kill him as he's not a true strongman and only a coked up puppet with an all cash exit strategy.

[QUOTE=Riina;2792451]The gangster clown is a perfect tool of the en aye zeez. His calculation is that Ruski are unlikely to kill him as he's not a true strongman and only a coked up puppet with an all cash exit strategy.[/QUOTE]If Zelensky dropped dead tomorrow, or was removed, Ukraine would fight on. If Putin dropped dead tomorrow, or was removed, there's no guarantee Russia would cease its aggression.

Russia's national psyche is such that they truly believe they're superior and entitled to dominate "lesser" countries and races. Putin is simply the current vessel for Russia's imperialist impulses. If it hadn't been him, it would have been somebody else.

The only way Russia will experience an attitude "adjustment" is if they are comprehensively defeated. If you don't give a bully a bloody nose, he'll just keep on coming.

P.S. Your "exit strategy" hypothesis has already been debunked. As I posted earlier, he had every opportunity to leave when the invasion first happened. He could have formed a "government in exile," played the victim card, and everyone would have lauded him and showered him with donations. The exit door was WIDE open and many were urging him to walk through it, and yet he didn't. So you might want to come with a new line of bullshit, since that one doesn't cut it for anyone outside the Putin butt-boy crowd.

[QUOTE=Riina;2792451]The gangster clown is a perfect tool of the en aye zeez. His calculation is that Ruski are unlikely to kill him as he's not a true strongman and only a coked up puppet with an all cash exit strategy.[/QUOTE]Xman you have a strange definition of winning. Ukraine is being wiped out. You are losing a generation of men, maybe more. Those that are able to flee are leaving and will never return. At the end the world will turn on Pres. Z. he has. Ruined Ukraine, this is not a win.

The snorting Truffaldino has been promised his life will be spared for now, as he does everything so our land will be united again.

Biden hears from Zed when he learned from media he were in Kiev:

- As you have ordered, till the last Ukrainian!

- And how about you're still alive?

- What kind of Ukrainian am I?

Up until recently, shills working in Western markets have avoided dumb anti-Semitic jokes (and from Russia, no less). Well, not anymore. It's all hands on board now.

[QUOTE=Questner;2792497]The snorting Truffaldino has been promised his life will be spared for now, as he does everything so our land will be united again.

Biden hears from Zed when he learned from media he were in Kiev:

- As you have ordered, till the last Ukrainian!

- And how about you're still alive?

- What kind of Ukrainian am I?[/QUOTE]I'm sure you thought your post was intelligible when you wrote it. Unfortunately, what actually came out of your keyboard was some rather incoherent gibberish.

And, to reiterate a point I've been consistently making, it's moronic for anyone to try to hyper-personalize this war. Those who can't muster anything better than lame insults aimed at Zelensky (or Putin) are simply demonstrating how empty their argumentation tank truly is.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2792476]Xman you have a strange definition of winning. Ukraine is being wiped out. You are losing a generation of men, maybe more. Those that are able to flee are leaving and will never return. At the end the world will turn on Pres. Z. he has. Ruined Ukraine, this is not a win.[/QUOTE]Ukraine is winning hard, the country that really has lost a generation of men is Russia. 150 000 - 200 000 dead in the war, double that have fled to countries that still accept Rachists, but I guess it will be fine since they have been stealing Ukrainian babies and children to make up for the shortfall. The world has turned on Russia and the Rashists. You're right it's not a win, it will be total victory and humiliation for the Rashists.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2792512]Up until recently[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2792516]I'm sure you thought [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VinDici;2792743]Ukraine is winning[/QUOTE]Let me guess. You guys are not boomers or older gen X? Correct? I'm so sorry that you did not experience the last era of civilization and that your minds are all fucked.

[QUOTE=Riina;2792747]Let me guess. You guys are not boomers or older gen X? Correct? I'm so sorry that you did not experience the last era of civilization and that your minds are all fucked.[/QUOTE]Our minds are just fine, your country is completely fucked though. Hope you started learning Chinese, you'll need it.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2792476]Xman you have a strange definition of winning. Ukraine is being wiped out. You are losing a generation of men, maybe more. Those that are able to flee are leaving and will never return. At the end the world will turn on Pres. Z. he has. Ruined Ukraine, this is not a win.[/QUOTE]Your continued sermons on the horrors of war are juvenile. Yes, we get it, war is hell. Is there anything else you can tell us, Major Obvious? Because Ukrainians turning on President Zelensky is not happening. Shame on you for using this pathetic cliché from a Russian propaganda manual.

Of course, aggressors are capable of inflicting horrific suffering on the nations they invade. What's your point?

It's a good thing you can't jump in a time machine and visit Great Britain in 1940 or the Soviet Union in 1941-1943. You would've see bombed out cities, millions of dead and crippled, destroyed livelihoods. And how did that war end, I wonder?

Ukrainians are fighting not because they want to, but because they have to.

Russians are fighting not because they have to, but because they want to.

One got to be really, really thick not to understand the difference?

From The National Bank: the recent emission of a so called '2-or 3 - or maximum 5 Hryvnia' banknote.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2792476]Xman you have a strange definition of winning. Ukraine is being wiped out. You are losing a generation of men, maybe more. Those that are able to flee are leaving and will never return. At the end the world will turn on Pres. Z. he has. Ruined Ukraine, this is not a win.[/QUOTE]The people who have fled Ukraine have done so primarily because it's a war zone. When the fighting is over, many will return. What percentage is anyone's guess but I doubt your crystal ball is better than anyone else's.

Another thing that's going to be flowing into post-war Ukraine is a shitload of Western money as a reconstruction effort takes place, in the same style as the Marshall Plan. With money sloshing around Ukraine, that's even more incentive for refugees to return. And Ukraine is firmly on the path to EU membership, and probably also NATO, which holds out the promise of economic growth.

It's those who left Russia who are less likely to return. Why? Because Russia isn't a war zone and those who left did so either because they don't support the war or because they didn't want to get drafted. Either one of those choices basically has the effect of burning the bridges that would make an easy return possible. The brain drain + the hundreds of thousands of killed and wounded will cause generational issues similar to post-WW2 Russia.

BTW, I doubt you can cite a single credible source that puts Ukrainian casualty losses even close to the level of Russian losses. One obvious reason why is because it's always been the case that it's harder to take territory than it is to defend. Take Bakhmut, for example, where Russia has thrown convicts and PMC Wagner forces for months, using "human wave" tactics, in their effort to seize that city. Their leader, Prighozin, even did a video with scores of his own dead soldiers stscked behind him, as he complained about not having enough ammunition.

One additional point is that you talk about Ukraine and Zelensky as though they have any other realistic choice. They don't because if they stop resisting Russian aggression then all of Ukraine will end up like Bucha and Irpin. They see this as a battle for existence and survival. Whether you agree or not is completely immaterial. That's how they see it and they're acting accordingly.

P.S. The world has categorically turned against Putin. The UN vote demanding Russia's withdrawal was 141 in favor of that demand, 7 against (IIRC), and 32 abstentions. Even so-called allies like China chose to abstain rather than support Putin. Therefore I would argue that it's Russia that's been ruined. Putin has turned it into a larger version of North Korea, a true pariah state.

[QUOTE=Riina;2792747]me[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] so sorry that[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I'm all fucked.[/QUOTE]You may have started a trend. After all, why bother with silly things like facts and logic when you can simply stoop to blatant misrepresentation? Isn't that special?

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2792783]Your continued sermons on the horrors of war are juvenile. Yes, we get it, war is hell. Is there anything else you can tell us, Major Obvious? Because Ukrainians turning on President Zelensky is not happening. Shame on you for using this pathetic clich from a Russian propaganda manual.

Of course, aggressors are capable of inflicting horrific suffering on the nations they invade. What's your point?

It's a good thing you can't jump in a time machine and visit Great Britain in 1940 or the Soviet Union in 1941-1943. You would've see bombed out cities, millions of dead and crippled, destroyed livelihoods. And how did that war end, I wonder?

Ukrainians are fighting not because they want to, but because they have to.

Russians are fighting not because they have to, but because they want to.

One got to be really, really thick not to understand the difference?[/QUOTE]He's a compulsive liar. He posted he'd been to Tijuana 30 times during the first year of the pandemic even though his post history clearly debunks that. Also, he stated he lived in Ukraine twice in one post and then claimed he lived there three times in another post. Which is it and who the fuck mixes up how many times they lived somewhere? The answer is only someone who lies so much he can't keep all his lies straight.